The Federal Corruption Trial Against Former Oakland Mayor Sheng Thao
One Key To California's Climate Goals? How We Cook
Why Angel Island Needs Fire
Millions for What? Inside California’s Secretive Earmark Process
Prop 45: Faster Environmental Reviews for Certain Projects
Prop 44: Requires Health Clinics to Spend More on Patient Care
Prop 43: Raises Voter Threshold for Some Local Tax Measures
Prop 38: Borrows $8.4 Billion to Fund Immunology Research
Prop 5: Changes to the State Recall Election Process
Prop 3: Making the Income Tax Rate on High Earners Permanent
Prop 2: Strengthening California's Rainy Day Fund
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/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Cubicles inside 150 Hayes Street, an office building that will be converted to housing, in San Francisco’s Civic Center on Oct. 9, 2026.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-27-aaa1487d-scaled-1-640249d2.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106192\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-27-aaa1487d-scaled-1-640249d2.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-27-aaa1487d-160x107-1-66bc2db8.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-27-aaa1487d-2000x1333-1-ea0211d0.jpg 2000w, 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src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-32-784c8ed3-scaled-1-2d7dd3cf.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106195\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-32-784c8ed3-scaled-1-2d7dd3cf.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-32-784c8ed3-160x107-1-11207baf.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-32-784c8ed3-2000x1333-1-5e7c2ffe.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-32-784c8ed3-1536x1024-1-fbdd5e87.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-32-784c8ed3-2048x1365-1-7cf0881f.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-32-784c8ed3-1012x675-1-18b232b2.jpg 1012w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Moving boxes inside 150 Hayes Street, an office building that will be converted to housing, in San Francisco’s Civic Center on Oct. 9, 2026.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-16-6c376f0b-scaled-1-ddf440aa.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106189\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-16-6c376f0b-scaled-1-ddf440aa.jpg 2560w, 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Center on Oct. 9, 2026.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">After hollowing out during the pandemic, San Francisco’s office vacancy rate is hovering at around 30%. Pair that volume of empty space with an escalating housing crisis, and it’s enough to make you wonder: Could you turn those empty offices into apartments? Today, we talk with two developers about what it actually takes to make these conversion projects a reality.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-36-83ef18ec-scaled-1-496feabf.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106196\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-36-83ef18ec-scaled-1-496feabf.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-36-83ef18ec-160x107-1-2eb3d543.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-36-83ef18ec-2000x1333-1-9186bac0.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-36-83ef18ec-1536x1024-1-b974c687.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-36-83ef18ec-2048x1365-1-8ce27e9d.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-36-83ef18ec-1012x674-1-d1a66efa.jpg 1012w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">150 Hayes Street, an office building which will be converted to housing, in San Francisco’s Civic Center on Oct. 9, 2026.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-18-88a8e3cb-scaled-1-155d53e8.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106190\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-18-88a8e3cb-scaled-1-155d53e8.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-18-88a8e3cb-160x107-1-0723c8ea.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-18-88a8e3cb-1536x1024-1-1e3a9e6e.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-18-88a8e3cb-2000x1333-1-0637cdd1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-18-88a8e3cb-2048x1365-1-afab22d7.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-18-88a8e3cb-1012x675-1-ad3b6f7d.jpg 1012w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Cubicles inside 150 Hayes Street, an office building that will be converted to housing, in San Francisco’s Civic Center on Oct. 9, 2026.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-27-aaa1487d-scaled-1-640249d2.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106192\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-27-aaa1487d-scaled-1-640249d2.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-27-aaa1487d-160x107-1-66bc2db8.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-27-aaa1487d-2000x1333-1-ea0211d0.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-27-aaa1487d-1536x1024-1-528106cd.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-27-aaa1487d-2048x1365-1-0dfe48bc.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-27-aaa1487d-1012x675-1-cc299e47.jpg 1012w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Cubicles inside 150 Hayes Street, an office building that will be converted to housing, in San Francisco’s Civic Center on Oct. 9, 2026.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-32-784c8ed3-scaled-1-2d7dd3cf.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106195\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-32-784c8ed3-scaled-1-2d7dd3cf.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-32-784c8ed3-160x107-1-11207baf.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-32-784c8ed3-2000x1333-1-5e7c2ffe.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-32-784c8ed3-1536x1024-1-fbdd5e87.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-32-784c8ed3-2048x1365-1-7cf0881f.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-32-784c8ed3-1012x675-1-18b232b2.jpg 1012w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Moving boxes inside 150 Hayes Street, an office building that will be converted to housing, in San Francisco’s Civic Center on Oct. 9, 2026.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-16-6c376f0b-scaled-1-ddf440aa.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106189\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-16-6c376f0b-scaled-1-ddf440aa.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-16-6c376f0b-160x107-1-effea28a.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-16-6c376f0b-1536x1024-1-531d56ad.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-16-6c376f0b-2000x1333-1-3b71e733.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-16-6c376f0b-2048x1365-1-95a9080f.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261009-Office-to-apartment-building-conversions-NG-16-6c376f0b-1012x675-1-5552aff7.jpg 1012w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The view of San Francisco City Hall from inside 150 Hayes Street, an office building that will be converted to housing, in San Francisco’s Civic Center on Oct. 9, 2026.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "sheng-thao-on-trial",
"title": "The Federal Corruption Trial Against Former Oakland Mayor Sheng Thao",
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"headTitle": "The Federal Corruption Trial Against Former Oakland Mayor Sheng Thao | KQED",
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"content": "\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The federal corruption trial against former Oakland Mayor Sheng Thao kicked off this month. Thao and her three codefendants — Andre Jones, David Doung, and Andy Doung — are facing conspiracy and bribery charges. Prosecutors allege that the group engaged in a quid pro quo to advance the Doungs’ companies in exchange for money and support for Thao’s 2022 mayoral campaign. KQED’s Alex Hall joins us to break it all down.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12103084/ex-oakland-mayor-sheng-thao-is-going-on-trial-for-bribery-heres-what-you-need-to-know\">Ex-Oakland Mayor Sheng Thao Is Going on Trial for Bribery: Here’s What You Need to Know\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\n\n\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/ahall\">Alex Hall’s continuing coverage of the Sheng Thao trial\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Episode Transcript\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>This transcript is computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:00:00]\u003c/em> I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. Former Oakland mayor Sheng Thao is on trial this month, nearly two years after she was indicted on federal corruption charges. Thao and three other defendants, including the head of Oakland’s recycling contractor, could go to prison if they’re found guilty of bribery and corruption charges, prosecutors alleged they engaged in a pay-to-play scheme when Thao ran for mayor in 2022. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:00:42]\u003c/em> You’ve got people who could testify in this trial who are either currently in Oakland City government or were in Oakland city government very recently. And I think it will just be interesting to see the kinds of things that they reveal when they’re on the stand. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:00:59]\u003c/em> Today, Enterprise and Accountability reporter Alex Hall breaks down the federal corruption trial of former Oakland Mayor Sheng Thao. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:01:20]\u003c/em> So before we dive into this trial in Oakland, I want to start actually a little further back with before Sheng Thao became this embattled former mayor at the center of this federal trial, she has this really compelling story of just how she sort of became this mayor of many firsts. Can you actually just remind us of that version of Shang Tao and why it was such a big deal when she was first elected. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:01:50]\u003c/em> Yeah, so Tao was elected 2022 as mayor, and she was relatively young, 37 years old. She was the first Hmong American woman to be elected mayor of a major US city, so pretty big accomplishment. And she, like you said, had a pretty compelling story. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>News Reel:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:02:10]\u003c/em> Through music and dance, Mayor Shang Tao was inaugurated as Oakland’s 51st mayor. The historic nature of Thao taking the oath of office has become a point of pride for many. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:02:21]\u003c/em> She talked about experiencing domestic violence, about how she had lived in her car with her infant son. She had gone to community college and transferred to UC Berkeley and started working as an intern in Oakland council member, Rebecca Kaplan’s office and eventually became her chief of staff. She ran for city council herself and won in 2018. And so, you know, she had this really interesting backstory and I think that the hope was that that experience would inform her policy priorities as mayor. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sheng Thao:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:02:57]\u003c/em> We believe our city deserves a government that serves all its people, not just a few, not just the wealthy, and not just well connected. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:03:12]\u003c/em> I remember when she was elected, it was sort of like an example of just like this amazing, like really very Oakland story. But when did things start to really fall apart for Shang Tao after she was elected in 2022? And how did that all sort of lead us to where we are now with this trial?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:03:34]\u003c/em> Yeah, I mean, I think Thao definitely faced challenges from the get-go. There was this ransomware attack that the city had to deal with almost right away. City was dealing with public safety issues, issues with the city’s budget. So there were some problems that her administration inherited, but some of her decisions also were unpopular. Pretty soon after coming into office, Tao placed the city’s police chief at the time, LeRonne Armstrong, on administrative leave, and there was significant backlash in response to that. And in January 2024, her critics launched a recall campaign against her. And it wasn’t long after that, roughly six months, that the FBI executed search warrants at the home she shared with her longtime partner, Andre Jones. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>News Reel:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:04:34]\u003c/em> Some breaking news coming into us tonight from the Bay Area with the FBI and other federal agencies raiding the Oakland Mayor’s home.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:04:42]\u003c/em> So the FBI conducts these very public raids. Obviously, Thao is facing a ton of questions about what’s going on with this, and she’s also fighting a recall. So she’s holding events where she’s really fighting the recall, but also saying really publicly, I’m innocent, and I want to be crystal clear. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sheng Thao:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:05:04]\u003c/em> I have done nothing wrong. I can tell you with confidence that this investigation is not about me. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:05:13]\u003c/em> And at this point, she hadn’t been charged with a crime, and it wasn’t really publicly known what the federal government was even interested in when it conducted those raids. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:05:22]\u003c/em> Yeah, but it was so shocking. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:05:24]\u003c/em> Yeah, yeah, there were a lot of questions, you know, even though obviously the FBI is not going to say publicly what they’re looking for. There were little hints here and there based on, you, know, the subpoenas to different entities, including the city of Oakland. We found out later that witnesses were being called to testify before a grand jury. And then in November, Tau did end up losing the recall. And she was indicted roughly two months later in January 2025. You know, it’s been almost two years since Tau was indicted, so we’ve been covering this case for quite some time, but only really through the court records. And the stakes are definitely high.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:06:06]\u003c/em> Let’s get into the basics of this trial, Alex. Who exactly is on trial aside from Sheng Thao and what exactly are they being accused of? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:06:16]\u003c/em> There are four defendants, including Thao. Andre Jones, Thao’s long-term partner. David Duong is the CEO of California Waste Solutions, which is Oakland’s curbside recycling provider. And Andy Duong previously worked for California Wastest Solutions and is his son. They’re essentially alleging a pay-to-play scheme. If you read the indictment, you see that the story that the prosecution is telling about what happened in this alleged scheme is that in the lead up to the 2022 Oakland mayoral election when Thao was ultimately elected, the four agreed to a bribery scheme. You know, Tao was facing a pretty tight race, and the government says that she promised to, if she won, take steps that would benefit the Duong’s companies in exchange for money and negative campaign mailers targeting her opponents in that mayoral race. Actually, they specifically alleged that she promised to extend a California Waste Solutions contract and to commit the city of Oakland to purchasing housing units from Evolutionary Homes, which was this housing company that aimed to convert shipping containers into housing for the homeless that’s also really at the heart of this case. They also say that she agreed to appoint individuals to pretty high-level positions in Oakland City government who were either preferred by the Duongs or hand-picked by them. So, Thao, Jones, David, and Andy Duong are all facing conspiracy, bribery, honest services mail fraud, and honest services wire fraud charges. Andy Duong is additionally charged with making false statements to a government agency, essentially lying to the FBI. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:08:31]\u003c/em> So we’re talking about what sound like pretty serious allegations about corruption within the city of Oakland, dating back to before Sheng Thao was even elected. What kind of evidence has come out so far? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:08:45]\u003c/em> Yeah, so prosecutors have described all types of evidence. Text messages, signal messages, financial records, toll records, audio and video recordings. There’s also a fifth person involved in this alleged scheme who isn’t actually charged in the indictment, but he’s a pretty big presence in the case, and that’s Mario Juarez. Juarez is an Oakland businessman, and he’s been described as a political operative, really active in Oakland city politics. So Juarez actually went into business with the Duangs on this business venture, Evolutionary Homes, around that time that the prosecutors say this alleged scheme started coming together. He has now pleaded guilty to participating in the alleged scheme, and he is now a key cooperating witness for the government. Juarez is expected to testify that Andy Duong told him that he recorded elected officials without their knowledge for use as potential leverage or potential blackmail later on. And we saw some of this supposed secret photos that were taken, including in opening statements.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:10:19]\u003c/em> We’re going to pause for a second, but to summarize, prosecutors allege Thao and the co-defendants agreed to a quid pro quo. They claim the CEO of Oakland’s waste management company, along with Mario Juarez, agreed to pay for campaign mailers to help Thao get elected mayor, and that the Duongs promised to pay TOW’s partner, Andre Jones. $300,000 for a no-show job. In exchange, according to the allegations, Thao promised to use her political power to advance the Duong’s business interests, to extend a contract for their waste management company, and buy container homes from another business venture. When we come back, how the defendants respond to the allegation and what to expect from the trial moving forward. We’ll be right back. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:11:31]\u003c/em> Okay, Alex, so prosecutors are building this corruption case against Shane Tau and these co-defendants and they plan to present all this evidence, including pictures and videos. What do we know about how the defendants, including former Mayor Shane Taut, plan to fight this in court? Like, what have they said in response to these allegations? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:11:57]\u003c/em> Yeah, I mean, even before the defendants were indicted, Thao was saying publicly that she was innocent. Attorneys for both Thao and David Duong, when they were giving their opening statements, told the jury that basically their clients didn’t even know about the alleged scheme. Andy Duong’s attorney had this whole analogy about stars in the sky kind of being like facts and how the government might be trying to connect those stars as part of a constellation, But the story the government is telling isn’t true, that the dots don’t actually connect the way that they’re saying they do. So it’s like each individual team is kind of taking its own different approach. And defense attorneys have been really raising a lot of questions about Mario Juarez. What they’ve described as this decades-long history of fraud, I think it will be really interesting to see what they ask him about and how he responds. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:12:59]\u003c/em> I mean, I want to talk about the potential outcomes of this trial, Alex. I mean are the people on trial here, including former Mayor Shang Tao, facing prison time? Or what could happen to them at the end of this trail?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:13:15]\u003c/em> If they are convicted, the defendants could face possible prison time. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:13:21]\u003c/em> That alone is, I mean, really shocking that a former mayor of Oakland could go to prison. How long could this trial last, Alex?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:13:30]\u003c/em> The trial is expected to go until just before Thanksgiving. Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers has been really trying to move things along quickly, but it could go longer than expected. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:13:45]\u003c/em> There are obviously very specific people at the center of this trial, but what implications could this trial you think have for Oakland beyond Sheng Thao? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:13:55]\u003c/em> You know, we don’t know what the outcome of this case is gonna be, but it will be really interesting to see how exactly it comes up during the trial, if at all, other allegations that Juarez has made about broader corruption in the city of Oakland that allegedly goes beyond this specific alleged scheme. You know, we don’t know how much of that is gonna come up during the trial, but the prosecution’s witness list includes multiple current and former elected officials and city staffers. It’s interesting that so many people who, you know, are intimately involved in the inner workings of Oakland government are either, you now, expected to be part of this trial or could otherwise be discussed. As part of the testimony in the trial, and I think that’s what makes it really interesting. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:14:54]\u003c/em> Well, Alex Hall, thank you so much for breaking this down. I appreciate it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:14:57]\u003c/em> Yeah, thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:00:00]\u003c/em> I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. Former Oakland mayor Sheng Thao is on trial this month, nearly two years after she was indicted on federal corruption charges. Thao and three other defendants, including the head of Oakland’s recycling contractor, could go to prison if they’re found guilty of bribery and corruption charges, prosecutors alleged they engaged in a pay-to-play scheme when Thao ran for mayor in 2022. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:00:00]\u003c/em> I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. Former Oakland mayor Sheng Thao is on trial this month, nearly two years after she was indicted on federal corruption charges. Thao and three other defendants, including the head of Oakland’s recycling contractor, could go to prison if they’re found guilty of bribery and corruption charges, prosecutors alleged they engaged in a pay-to-play scheme when Thao ran for mayor in 2022. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:00:42]\u003c/em> You’ve got people who could testify in this trial who are either currently in Oakland City government or were in Oakland city government very recently. And I think it will just be interesting to see the kinds of things that they reveal when they’re on the stand. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:00:59]\u003c/em> Today, Enterprise and Accountability reporter Alex Hall breaks down the federal corruption trial of former Oakland Mayor Sheng Thao. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:01:20]\u003c/em> So before we dive into this trial in Oakland, I want to start actually a little further back with before Sheng Thao became this embattled former mayor at the center of this federal trial, she has this really compelling story of just how she sort of became this mayor of many firsts. Can you actually just remind us of that version of Shang Tao and why it was such a big deal when she was first elected. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:01:50]\u003c/em> Yeah, so Tao was elected 2022 as mayor, and she was relatively young, 37 years old. She was the first Hmong American woman to be elected mayor of a major US city, so pretty big accomplishment. And she, like you said, had a pretty compelling story. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>News Reel:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:02:10]\u003c/em> Through music and dance, Mayor Shang Tao was inaugurated as Oakland’s 51st mayor. The historic nature of Thao taking the oath of office has become a point of pride for many. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:02:21]\u003c/em> She talked about experiencing domestic violence, about how she had lived in her car with her infant son. She had gone to community college and transferred to UC Berkeley and started working as an intern in Oakland council member, Rebecca Kaplan’s office and eventually became her chief of staff. She ran for city council herself and won in 2018. And so, you know, she had this really interesting backstory and I think that the hope was that that experience would inform her policy priorities as mayor. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:02:21]\u003c/em> She talked about experiencing domestic violence, about how she had lived in her car with her infant son. She had gone to community college and transferred to UC Berkeley and started working as an intern in Oakland council member, Rebecca Kaplan’s office and eventually became her chief of staff. She ran for city council herself and won in 2018. And so, you know, she had this really interesting backstory and I think that the hope was that that experience would inform her policy priorities as mayor. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:03:12]\u003c/em> I remember when she was elected, it was sort of like an example of just like this amazing, like really very Oakland story. But when did things start to really fall apart for Shang Tao after she was elected in 2022? And how did that all sort of lead us to where we are now with this trial?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:03:12]\u003c/em> I remember when she was elected, it was sort of like an example of just like this amazing, like really very Oakland story. But when did things start to really fall apart for Shang Tao after she was elected in 2022? And how did that all sort of lead us to where we are now with this trial?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:03:34]\u003c/em> Yeah, I mean, I think Thao definitely faced challenges from the get-go. There was this ransomware attack that the city had to deal with almost right away. City was dealing with public safety issues, issues with the city’s budget. So there were some problems that her administration inherited, but some of her decisions also were unpopular. Pretty soon after coming into office, Tao placed the city’s police chief at the time, LeRonne Armstrong, on administrative leave, and there was significant backlash in response to that. And in January 2024, her critics launched a recall campaign against her. And it wasn’t long after that, roughly six months, that the FBI executed search warrants at the home she shared with her longtime partner, Andre Jones. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:03:34]\u003c/em> Yeah, I mean, I think Thao definitely faced challenges from the get-go. There was this ransomware attack that the city had to deal with almost right away. City was dealing with public safety issues, issues with the city’s budget. So there were some problems that her administration inherited, but some of her decisions also were unpopular. Pretty soon after coming into office, Tao placed the city’s police chief at the time, LeRonne Armstrong, on administrative leave, and there was significant backlash in response to that. And in January 2024, her critics launched a recall campaign against her. And it wasn’t long after that, roughly six months, that the FBI executed search warrants at the home she shared with her longtime partner, Andre Jones. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>News Reel:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:04:34]\u003c/em> Some breaking news coming into us tonight from the Bay Area with the FBI and other federal agencies raiding the Oakland Mayor’s home.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>News Reel:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:04:34]\u003c/em> Some breaking news coming into us tonight from the Bay Area with the FBI and other federal agencies raiding the Oakland Mayor’s home.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:04:42]\u003c/em> So the FBI conducts these very public raids. Obviously, Thao is facing a ton of questions about what’s going on with this, and she’s also fighting a recall. So she’s holding events where she’s really fighting the recall, but also saying really publicly, I’m innocent, and I want to be crystal clear. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:04:42]\u003c/em> So the FBI conducts these very public raids. Obviously, Thao is facing a ton of questions about what’s going on with this, and she’s also fighting a recall. So she’s holding events where she’s really fighting the recall, but also saying really publicly, I’m innocent, and I want to be crystal clear. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sheng Thao:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:05:04]\u003c/em> I have done nothing wrong. I can tell you with confidence that this investigation is not about me. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sheng Thao:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:05:04]\u003c/em> I have done nothing wrong. I can tell you with confidence that this investigation is not about me. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:05:13]\u003c/em> And at this point, she hadn’t been charged with a crime, and it wasn’t really publicly known what the federal government was even interested in when it conducted those raids. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:05:13]\u003c/em> And at this point, she hadn’t been charged with a crime, and it wasn’t really publicly known what the federal government was even interested in when it conducted those raids. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:05:22]\u003c/em> Yeah, but it was so shocking. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:05:22]\u003c/em> Yeah, but it was so shocking. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:05:24]\u003c/em> Yeah, yeah, there were a lot of questions, you know, even though obviously the FBI is not going to say publicly what they’re looking for. There were little hints here and there based on, you, know, the subpoenas to different entities, including the city of Oakland. We found out later that witnesses were being called to testify before a grand jury. And then in November, Tau did end up losing the recall. And she was indicted roughly two months later in January 2025. You know, it’s been almost two years since Tau was indicted, so we’ve been covering this case for quite some time, but only really through the court records. And the stakes are definitely high.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:05:24]\u003c/em> Yeah, yeah, there were a lot of questions, you know, even though obviously the FBI is not going to say publicly what they’re looking for. There were little hints here and there based on, you, know, the subpoenas to different entities, including the city of Oakland. We found out later that witnesses were being called to testify before a grand jury. And then in November, Tau did end up losing the recall. And she was indicted roughly two months later in January 2025. You know, it’s been almost two years since Tau was indicted, so we’ve been covering this case for quite some time, but only really through the court records. And the stakes are definitely high.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:06:06]\u003c/em> Let’s get into the basics of this trial, Alex. Who exactly is on trial aside from Sheng Thao and what exactly are they being accused of? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:06:06]\u003c/em> Let’s get into the basics of this trial, Alex. Who exactly is on trial aside from Sheng Thao and what exactly are they being accused of? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:06:16]\u003c/em> There are four defendants, including Thao. Andre Jones, Thao’s long-term partner. David Duong is the CEO of California Waste Solutions, which is Oakland’s curbside recycling provider. And Andy Duong previously worked for California Wastest Solutions and is his son. They’re essentially alleging a pay-to-play scheme. If you read the indictment, you see that the story that the prosecution is telling about what happened in this alleged scheme is that in the lead up to the 2022 Oakland mayoral election when Thao was ultimately elected, the four agreed to a bribery scheme. You know, Tao was facing a pretty tight race, and the government says that she promised to, if she won, take steps that would benefit the Duong’s companies in exchange for money and negative campaign mailers targeting her opponents in that mayoral race. Actually, they specifically alleged that she promised to extend a California Waste Solutions contract and to commit the city of Oakland to purchasing housing units from Evolutionary Homes, which was this housing company that aimed to convert shipping containers into housing for the homeless that’s also really at the heart of this case. They also say that she agreed to appoint individuals to pretty high-level positions in Oakland City government who were either preferred by the Duongs or hand-picked by them. So, Thao, Jones, David, and Andy Duong are all facing conspiracy, bribery, honest services mail fraud, and honest services wire fraud charges. Andy Duong is additionally charged with making false statements to a government agency, essentially lying to the FBI. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:06:16]\u003c/em> There are four defendants, including Thao. Andre Jones, Thao’s long-term partner. David Duong is the CEO of California Waste Solutions, which is Oakland’s curbside recycling provider. And Andy Duong previously worked for California Wastest Solutions and is his son. They’re essentially alleging a pay-to-play scheme. If you read the indictment, you see that the story that the prosecution is telling about what happened in this alleged scheme is that in the lead up to the 2022 Oakland mayoral election when Thao was ultimately elected, the four agreed to a bribery scheme. You know, Tao was facing a pretty tight race, and the government says that she promised to, if she won, take steps that would benefit the Duong’s companies in exchange for money and negative campaign mailers targeting her opponents in that mayoral race. Actually, they specifically alleged that she promised to extend a California Waste Solutions contract and to commit the city of Oakland to purchasing housing units from Evolutionary Homes, which was this housing company that aimed to convert shipping containers into housing for the homeless that’s also really at the heart of this case. They also say that she agreed to appoint individuals to pretty high-level positions in Oakland City government who were either preferred by the Duongs or hand-picked by them. So, Thao, Jones, David, and Andy Duong are all facing conspiracy, bribery, honest services mail fraud, and honest services wire fraud charges. Andy Duong is additionally charged with making false statements to a government agency, essentially lying to the FBI. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:08:31]\u003c/em> So we’re talking about what sound like pretty serious allegations about corruption within the city of Oakland, dating back to before Sheng Thao was even elected. What kind of evidence has come out so far? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:08:31]\u003c/em> So we’re talking about what sound like pretty serious allegations about corruption within the city of Oakland, dating back to before Sheng Thao was even elected. What kind of evidence has come out so far? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:08:45]\u003c/em> Yeah, so prosecutors have described all types of evidence. Text messages, signal messages, financial records, toll records, audio and video recordings. There’s also a fifth person involved in this alleged scheme who isn’t actually charged in the indictment, but he’s a pretty big presence in the case, and that’s Mario Juarez. Juarez is an Oakland businessman, and he’s been described as a political operative, really active in Oakland city politics. So Juarez actually went into business with the Duangs on this business venture, Evolutionary Homes, around that time that the prosecutors say this alleged scheme started coming together. He has now pleaded guilty to participating in the alleged scheme, and he is now a key cooperating witness for the government. Juarez is expected to testify that Andy Duong told him that he recorded elected officials without their knowledge for use as potential leverage or potential blackmail later on. And we saw some of this supposed secret photos that were taken, including in opening statements.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:08:45]\u003c/em> Yeah, so prosecutors have described all types of evidence. Text messages, signal messages, financial records, toll records, audio and video recordings. There’s also a fifth person involved in this alleged scheme who isn’t actually charged in the indictment, but he’s a pretty big presence in the case, and that’s Mario Juarez. Juarez is an Oakland businessman, and he’s been described as a political operative, really active in Oakland city politics. So Juarez actually went into business with the Duangs on this business venture, Evolutionary Homes, around that time that the prosecutors say this alleged scheme started coming together. He has now pleaded guilty to participating in the alleged scheme, and he is now a key cooperating witness for the government. Juarez is expected to testify that Andy Duong told him that he recorded elected officials without their knowledge for use as potential leverage or potential blackmail later on. And we saw some of this supposed secret photos that were taken, including in opening statements.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:10:19]\u003c/em> We’re going to pause for a second, but to summarize, prosecutors allege Thao and the co-defendants agreed to a quid pro quo. They claim the CEO of Oakland’s waste management company, along with Mario Juarez, agreed to pay for campaign mailers to help Thao get elected mayor, and that the Duongs promised to pay TOW’s partner, Andre Jones. $300,000 for a no-show job. In exchange, according to the allegations, Thao promised to use her political power to advance the Duong’s business interests, to extend a contract for their waste management company, and buy container homes from another business venture. When we come back, how the defendants respond to the allegation and what to expect from the trial moving forward. We’ll be right back. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:10:19]\u003c/em> We’re going to pause for a second, but to summarize, prosecutors allege Thao and the co-defendants agreed to a quid pro quo. They claim the CEO of Oakland’s waste management company, along with Mario Juarez, agreed to pay for campaign mailers to help Thao get elected mayor, and that the Duongs promised to pay TOW’s partner, Andre Jones. $300,000 for a no-show job. In exchange, according to the allegations, Thao promised to use her political power to advance the Duong’s business interests, to extend a contract for their waste management company, and buy container homes from another business venture. When we come back, how the defendants respond to the allegation and what to expect from the trial moving forward. We’ll be right back. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:11:31]\u003c/em> Okay, Alex, so prosecutors are building this corruption case against Shane Tau and these co-defendants and they plan to present all this evidence, including pictures and videos. What do we know about how the defendants, including former Mayor Shane Taut, plan to fight this in court? Like, what have they said in response to these allegations? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:11:31]\u003c/em> Okay, Alex, so prosecutors are building this corruption case against Shane Tau and these co-defendants and they plan to present all this evidence, including pictures and videos. What do we know about how the defendants, including former Mayor Shane Taut, plan to fight this in court? Like, what have they said in response to these allegations? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:11:57]\u003c/em> Yeah, I mean, even before the defendants were indicted, Thao was saying publicly that she was innocent. Attorneys for both Thao and David Duong, when they were giving their opening statements, told the jury that basically their clients didn’t even know about the alleged scheme. Andy Duong’s attorney had this whole analogy about stars in the sky kind of being like facts and how the government might be trying to connect those stars as part of a constellation, But the story the government is telling isn’t true, that the dots don’t actually connect the way that they’re saying they do. So it’s like each individual team is kind of taking its own different approach. And defense attorneys have been really raising a lot of questions about Mario Juarez. What they’ve described as this decades-long history of fraud, I think it will be really interesting to see what they ask him about and how he responds. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:11:57]\u003c/em> Yeah, I mean, even before the defendants were indicted, Thao was saying publicly that she was innocent. Attorneys for both Thao and David Duong, when they were giving their opening statements, told the jury that basically their clients didn’t even know about the alleged scheme. Andy Duong’s attorney had this whole analogy about stars in the sky kind of being like facts and how the government might be trying to connect those stars as part of a constellation, But the story the government is telling isn’t true, that the dots don’t actually connect the way that they’re saying they do. So it’s like each individual team is kind of taking its own different approach. And defense attorneys have been really raising a lot of questions about Mario Juarez. What they’ve described as this decades-long history of fraud, I think it will be really interesting to see what they ask him about and how he responds. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:12:59]\u003c/em> I mean, I want to talk about the potential outcomes of this trial, Alex. I mean are the people on trial here, including former Mayor Shang Tao, facing prison time? Or what could happen to them at the end of this trail?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:12:59]\u003c/em> I mean, I want to talk about the potential outcomes of this trial, Alex. I mean are the people on trial here, including former Mayor Shang Tao, facing prison time? Or what could happen to them at the end of this trail?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:13:15]\u003c/em> If they are convicted, the defendants could face possible prison time. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:13:15]\u003c/em> If they are convicted, the defendants could face possible prison time. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:13:21]\u003c/em> That alone is, I mean, really shocking that a former mayor of Oakland could go to prison. How long could this trial last, Alex?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:13:21]\u003c/em> That alone is, I mean, really shocking that a former mayor of Oakland could go to prison. How long could this trial last, Alex?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:13:30]\u003c/em> The trial is expected to go until just before Thanksgiving. Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers has been really trying to move things along quickly, but it could go longer than expected. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:13:30]\u003c/em> The trial is expected to go until just before Thanksgiving. Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers has been really trying to move things along quickly, but it could go longer than expected. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:13:45]\u003c/em> There are obviously very specific people at the center of this trial, but what implications could this trial you think have for Oakland beyond Sheng Thao? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:13:45]\u003c/em> There are obviously very specific people at the center of this trial, but what implications could this trial you think have for Oakland beyond Sheng Thao? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:13:55]\u003c/em> You know, we don’t know what the outcome of this case is gonna be, but it will be really interesting to see how exactly it comes up during the trial, if at all, other allegations that Juarez has made about broader corruption in the city of Oakland that allegedly goes beyond this specific alleged scheme. You know, we don’t know how much of that is gonna come up during the trial, but the prosecution’s witness list includes multiple current and former elected officials and city staffers. It’s interesting that so many people who, you know, are intimately involved in the inner workings of Oakland government are either, you now, expected to be part of this trial or could otherwise be discussed. As part of the testimony in the trial, and I think that’s what makes it really interesting. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:13:55]\u003c/em> You know, we don’t know what the outcome of this case is gonna be, but it will be really interesting to see how exactly it comes up during the trial, if at all, other allegations that Juarez has made about broader corruption in the city of Oakland that allegedly goes beyond this specific alleged scheme. You know, we don’t know how much of that is gonna come up during the trial, but the prosecution’s witness list includes multiple current and former elected officials and city staffers. It’s interesting that so many people who, you know, are intimately involved in the inner workings of Oakland government are either, you now, expected to be part of this trial or could otherwise be discussed. As part of the testimony in the trial, and I think that’s what makes it really interesting. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:14:54]\u003c/em> Well, Alex Hall, thank you so much for breaking this down. I appreciate it. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:14:54]\u003c/em> Well, Alex Hall, thank you so much for breaking this down. I appreciate it. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:14:57]\u003c/em> Yeah, thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:14:57]\u003c/em> Yeah, thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n"
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"excerpt": "Last week, opening statements began in the federal corruption trial of former Oakland Mayor Sheng Thao.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The federal corruption trial against former Oakland Mayor Sheng Thao kicked off this month. Thao and her three codefendants — Andre Jones, David Doung, and Andy Doung — are facing conspiracy and bribery charges. Prosecutors allege that the group engaged in a quid pro quo to advance the Doungs’ companies in exchange for money and support for Thao’s 2022 mayoral campaign. KQED’s Alex Hall joins us to break it all down.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12103084/ex-oakland-mayor-sheng-thao-is-going-on-trial-for-bribery-heres-what-you-need-to-know\">Ex-Oakland Mayor Sheng Thao Is Going on Trial for Bribery: Here’s What You Need to Know\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\n\n\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/ahall\">Alex Hall’s continuing coverage of the Sheng Thao trial\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Episode Transcript\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>This transcript is computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:00:00]\u003c/em> I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. Former Oakland mayor Sheng Thao is on trial this month, nearly two years after she was indicted on federal corruption charges. Thao and three other defendants, including the head of Oakland’s recycling contractor, could go to prison if they’re found guilty of bribery and corruption charges, prosecutors alleged they engaged in a pay-to-play scheme when Thao ran for mayor in 2022. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:00:42]\u003c/em> You’ve got people who could testify in this trial who are either currently in Oakland City government or were in Oakland city government very recently. And I think it will just be interesting to see the kinds of things that they reveal when they’re on the stand. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:00:59]\u003c/em> Today, Enterprise and Accountability reporter Alex Hall breaks down the federal corruption trial of former Oakland Mayor Sheng Thao. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:01:20]\u003c/em> So before we dive into this trial in Oakland, I want to start actually a little further back with before Sheng Thao became this embattled former mayor at the center of this federal trial, she has this really compelling story of just how she sort of became this mayor of many firsts. Can you actually just remind us of that version of Shang Tao and why it was such a big deal when she was first elected. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:01:50]\u003c/em> Yeah, so Tao was elected 2022 as mayor, and she was relatively young, 37 years old. She was the first Hmong American woman to be elected mayor of a major US city, so pretty big accomplishment. And she, like you said, had a pretty compelling story. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>News Reel:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:02:10]\u003c/em> Through music and dance, Mayor Shang Tao was inaugurated as Oakland’s 51st mayor. The historic nature of Thao taking the oath of office has become a point of pride for many. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:02:21]\u003c/em> She talked about experiencing domestic violence, about how she had lived in her car with her infant son. She had gone to community college and transferred to UC Berkeley and started working as an intern in Oakland council member, Rebecca Kaplan’s office and eventually became her chief of staff. She ran for city council herself and won in 2018. And so, you know, she had this really interesting backstory and I think that the hope was that that experience would inform her policy priorities as mayor. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sheng Thao:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:02:57]\u003c/em> We believe our city deserves a government that serves all its people, not just a few, not just the wealthy, and not just well connected. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:03:12]\u003c/em> I remember when she was elected, it was sort of like an example of just like this amazing, like really very Oakland story. But when did things start to really fall apart for Shang Tao after she was elected in 2022? And how did that all sort of lead us to where we are now with this trial?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:03:34]\u003c/em> Yeah, I mean, I think Thao definitely faced challenges from the get-go. There was this ransomware attack that the city had to deal with almost right away. City was dealing with public safety issues, issues with the city’s budget. So there were some problems that her administration inherited, but some of her decisions also were unpopular. Pretty soon after coming into office, Tao placed the city’s police chief at the time, LeRonne Armstrong, on administrative leave, and there was significant backlash in response to that. And in January 2024, her critics launched a recall campaign against her. And it wasn’t long after that, roughly six months, that the FBI executed search warrants at the home she shared with her longtime partner, Andre Jones. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>News Reel:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:04:34]\u003c/em> Some breaking news coming into us tonight from the Bay Area with the FBI and other federal agencies raiding the Oakland Mayor’s home.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:04:42]\u003c/em> So the FBI conducts these very public raids. Obviously, Thao is facing a ton of questions about what’s going on with this, and she’s also fighting a recall. So she’s holding events where she’s really fighting the recall, but also saying really publicly, I’m innocent, and I want to be crystal clear. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Sheng Thao:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:05:04]\u003c/em> I have done nothing wrong. I can tell you with confidence that this investigation is not about me. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:05:13]\u003c/em> And at this point, she hadn’t been charged with a crime, and it wasn’t really publicly known what the federal government was even interested in when it conducted those raids. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:05:22]\u003c/em> Yeah, but it was so shocking. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:05:24]\u003c/em> Yeah, yeah, there were a lot of questions, you know, even though obviously the FBI is not going to say publicly what they’re looking for. There were little hints here and there based on, you, know, the subpoenas to different entities, including the city of Oakland. We found out later that witnesses were being called to testify before a grand jury. And then in November, Tau did end up losing the recall. And she was indicted roughly two months later in January 2025. You know, it’s been almost two years since Tau was indicted, so we’ve been covering this case for quite some time, but only really through the court records. And the stakes are definitely high.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:06:06]\u003c/em> Let’s get into the basics of this trial, Alex. Who exactly is on trial aside from Sheng Thao and what exactly are they being accused of? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:06:16]\u003c/em> There are four defendants, including Thao. Andre Jones, Thao’s long-term partner. David Duong is the CEO of California Waste Solutions, which is Oakland’s curbside recycling provider. And Andy Duong previously worked for California Wastest Solutions and is his son. They’re essentially alleging a pay-to-play scheme. If you read the indictment, you see that the story that the prosecution is telling about what happened in this alleged scheme is that in the lead up to the 2022 Oakland mayoral election when Thao was ultimately elected, the four agreed to a bribery scheme. You know, Tao was facing a pretty tight race, and the government says that she promised to, if she won, take steps that would benefit the Duong’s companies in exchange for money and negative campaign mailers targeting her opponents in that mayoral race. Actually, they specifically alleged that she promised to extend a California Waste Solutions contract and to commit the city of Oakland to purchasing housing units from Evolutionary Homes, which was this housing company that aimed to convert shipping containers into housing for the homeless that’s also really at the heart of this case. They also say that she agreed to appoint individuals to pretty high-level positions in Oakland City government who were either preferred by the Duongs or hand-picked by them. So, Thao, Jones, David, and Andy Duong are all facing conspiracy, bribery, honest services mail fraud, and honest services wire fraud charges. Andy Duong is additionally charged with making false statements to a government agency, essentially lying to the FBI. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:08:31]\u003c/em> So we’re talking about what sound like pretty serious allegations about corruption within the city of Oakland, dating back to before Sheng Thao was even elected. What kind of evidence has come out so far? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:08:45]\u003c/em> Yeah, so prosecutors have described all types of evidence. Text messages, signal messages, financial records, toll records, audio and video recordings. There’s also a fifth person involved in this alleged scheme who isn’t actually charged in the indictment, but he’s a pretty big presence in the case, and that’s Mario Juarez. Juarez is an Oakland businessman, and he’s been described as a political operative, really active in Oakland city politics. So Juarez actually went into business with the Duangs on this business venture, Evolutionary Homes, around that time that the prosecutors say this alleged scheme started coming together. He has now pleaded guilty to participating in the alleged scheme, and he is now a key cooperating witness for the government. Juarez is expected to testify that Andy Duong told him that he recorded elected officials without their knowledge for use as potential leverage or potential blackmail later on. And we saw some of this supposed secret photos that were taken, including in opening statements.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:10:19]\u003c/em> We’re going to pause for a second, but to summarize, prosecutors allege Thao and the co-defendants agreed to a quid pro quo. They claim the CEO of Oakland’s waste management company, along with Mario Juarez, agreed to pay for campaign mailers to help Thao get elected mayor, and that the Duongs promised to pay TOW’s partner, Andre Jones. $300,000 for a no-show job. In exchange, according to the allegations, Thao promised to use her political power to advance the Duong’s business interests, to extend a contract for their waste management company, and buy container homes from another business venture. When we come back, how the defendants respond to the allegation and what to expect from the trial moving forward. We’ll be right back. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:11:31]\u003c/em> Okay, Alex, so prosecutors are building this corruption case against Shane Tau and these co-defendants and they plan to present all this evidence, including pictures and videos. What do we know about how the defendants, including former Mayor Shane Taut, plan to fight this in court? Like, what have they said in response to these allegations? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:11:57]\u003c/em> Yeah, I mean, even before the defendants were indicted, Thao was saying publicly that she was innocent. Attorneys for both Thao and David Duong, when they were giving their opening statements, told the jury that basically their clients didn’t even know about the alleged scheme. Andy Duong’s attorney had this whole analogy about stars in the sky kind of being like facts and how the government might be trying to connect those stars as part of a constellation, But the story the government is telling isn’t true, that the dots don’t actually connect the way that they’re saying they do. So it’s like each individual team is kind of taking its own different approach. And defense attorneys have been really raising a lot of questions about Mario Juarez. What they’ve described as this decades-long history of fraud, I think it will be really interesting to see what they ask him about and how he responds. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:12:59]\u003c/em> I mean, I want to talk about the potential outcomes of this trial, Alex. I mean are the people on trial here, including former Mayor Shang Tao, facing prison time? Or what could happen to them at the end of this trail?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:13:15]\u003c/em> If they are convicted, the defendants could face possible prison time. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:13:21]\u003c/em> That alone is, I mean, really shocking that a former mayor of Oakland could go to prison. How long could this trial last, Alex?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:13:30]\u003c/em> The trial is expected to go until just before Thanksgiving. Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers has been really trying to move things along quickly, but it could go longer than expected. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:13:45]\u003c/em> There are obviously very specific people at the center of this trial, but what implications could this trial you think have for Oakland beyond Sheng Thao? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Alex Hall:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:13:55]\u003c/em> You know, we don’t know what the outcome of this case is gonna be, but it will be really interesting to see how exactly it comes up during the trial, if at all, other allegations that Juarez has made about broader corruption in the city of Oakland that allegedly goes beyond this specific alleged scheme. You know, we don’t know how much of that is gonna come up during the trial, but the prosecution’s witness list includes multiple current and former elected officials and city staffers. It’s interesting that so many people who, you know, are intimately involved in the inner workings of Oakland government are either, you now, expected to be part of this trial or could otherwise be discussed. As part of the testimony in the trial, and I think that’s what makes it really interesting. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:14:54]\u003c/em> Well, Alex Hall, thank you so much for breaking this down. I appreciate it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> \u003cem>[00:14:57]\u003c/em> Yeah, thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "One Key To California's Climate Goals? How We Cook",
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"content": "\n\u003cp>The vast majority of commercial kitchens in California — some 85% — rely on gas to power their appliances. But scientists say that will have to change if the state hopes to reach its goal of net-zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2045. Bay Area food franchise Flour + Water is one of many local shops leading the charge away from gas appliances. In today’s episode, KQED reporter Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman visits an electric pizza kitchen to help us understand the benefits of electrification and what’s preventing more kitchens from making the switch. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/2002089/heres-what-all-electric-bay-area-restaurants-have-learned-from-ditching-gas\">Here’s What All-Electric Bay Area Restaurants Have Learned From Ditching Gas\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Episode Transcript\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This transcript is computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:00] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. Many think of California as a leader when it comes to fighting climate change. We’ve got this ambitious goal of net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2045. But there are a lot of things that get in the way of that. Like our reliance on cars and perhaps one less obvious reason, how we cook. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:32] \u003c/em>As long as there are stoves with a gas pipe leading to them, we’re going to keep burning gas in this state. And restaurants are this very entrenched use of natural gas. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:47] \u003c/em>85% of California restaurants use gas to power their appliances. And it turns out, electrifying restaurant kitchens could actually play a pretty big role in getting us closer to our climate goals. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rob Jackson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:04] \u003c/em>We know that the pollution that’s created by burning fossil fuels is harmful and there’s no reason to do that now when cleaner, better technologies are available. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:14] \u003c/em>Today, the benefits of electrifying California’s restaurants and what it’s gonna take to get more of them on board. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:30] \u003c/em>You know, we think of California as like this leader in climate change, right? We have more efficient fuel for our cars. We invest in transit and carpooling and all this stuff. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:39] \u003c/em>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman is a reporter for KQED. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:44] \u003c/em>Buildings, and then restaurants in particular, are this one place where we’re really behind. Buildings are responsible for about a quarter of all of California’s greenhouse gas emissions and restaurants in our state use gas at a much higher rate than other states. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brandy Seals: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:03] \u003c/em>This is a sleeper issue. A lot of people don’t realize it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:07] \u003c/em>Brandy Seals is the Director of the Electrification for Health program at Stanford University. And they’re really looking at benefits of electrifying. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brandy Seals: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:18] \u003c/em>So when you look at commercial spaces, kitchens, and food service, they have about five times the energy usage of a standard office. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:28] \u003c/em>She says that commercial kitchens really like punch above their weight. Because restaurants use gas, they’re also sort of cementing this demand for gas. So she says that if we’re gonna really address this issue of climate change, we need to start looking at buildings and specifically restaurants. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:48] \u003c/em>So it sounds like commercial kitchens are maybe an untapped space for electrification that I’m definitely not thinking about. But what are the barriers to actually making it happen and also making it more common? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:03] \u003c/em>Well, I think like, first off, just put yourself in the shoes of a restaurant owner, right? Restaurants run on extremely thin margins. You know, there’s a lot of turnover, like, you know, most restaurants don’t even make it a year, right. And in order to switch to electricity, that’s a big investment, right, most restaurants are going to come with gas hookups for your appliances. But in order to switch electric, you gotta get a new panel, you got to pay for new electric service. You gotta buy these appliances. Electricity, not cheap in California. I mean, we have the most expensive electricity in the Continental 48. There’s also not as much of a demand in the market. So it’s just kind of like this small niche thing that’s growing that is kind of still waiting to see its moment. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:59] \u003c/em>So you visited a restaurant that actually went electric. Who did you meet and what did they say about the practical barriers that they faced? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:11] \u003c/em>Can we do a little tour? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:12] \u003c/em>Yeah, of course. So our pantry section or garmagé. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:16] \u003c/em>So I went to Flower and Water. They have a pizza shop in Oakland, but they’re part of this restaurant group. They’ve essentially committed to making all of their future restaurants electric.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:29] \u003c/em>Machines, slushies, burners, fryers, everything here runs on electric.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:35] \u003c/em>I talked to their CEO, Thomas McNaughton. He said basically, when you said like electric oven to him like 10 years ago, he was like, he thought of like an Easy Bake Oven, you know, like a toy. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:45] \u003c/em>And I didn’t realize how evolved the technology really is. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:49] \u003c/em>But he said that changed around six years ago. He started seeing these electric ovens that were like really powerful. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:56] \u003c/em>And that kind of introduced us to the idea, saying, like, if this oven is so powerful, couldn’t we build our entire operation around electricity?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:07] \u003c/em>He said that sustainability is like a really important value of theirs. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:11] \u003c/em>Sustainability for us is not just where we buy our seafood from. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:19] \u003c/em>In terms of like the challenges that he faced, he said that whether or not a space has the ability to like accommodate the electrical load that like an electric kitchen requires is a limiting factor.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:36] \u003c/em>A lot of older properties we’re not able to look at. And so that’s one that can feel somewhat constricting at times. Problem solving is one of the most fascinating parts of the job of a chef or a restaurateur. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:51] \u003c/em>And that sounds kind of expensive, maybe? What was that process like?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:55] \u003c/em>What McNaughton said is that in general to buy electric appliances is a little more expensive than gas ones, to run them is more expensive. They spend about $8,000 a month at their Oakland location on electricity, which is like 34 times higher than the average household in California. Oh my goodness. So it’s a considerable load. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:16] \u003c/em>That’s a lot of money every month, Azul, for electricity. I mean, what makes it worth it for him? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:22] \u003c/em>Well, I think on one hand, you know, he said sustainability is like a big part of their business So there is value in sort of like a non numerical thing for them I think now it’s sort of liked baked in no pun intended into their business, right? Like they are an electric Restaurant and it’s part of like kind of the identity of their pizza \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:46] \u003c/em>And really, these electric ovens, I think, really are creating this kind of new wave of pizza making because they’re so powerful, because you can toggle both deck top and bottom heat. It actually, we can incorporate a fair amount of char, like a Neapolitan pizza, but actually slow down the bake time. And that incorporates a lot more texture into our high-hydration dough that, to me, is incredibly craveable. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:16] \u003c/em>Did you taste it?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:17] \u003c/em>I did. yeah, I mean flower waters. It’s good pizza. I don’t think that’s a controversial take McNaughton’s like a finalist for like the James Beard Awards before so \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:29] \u003c/em>Yeah, they’re doing pretty well. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:31] \u003c/em>Yeah. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:32] \u003c/em>So my name’s Azul, I’m a reporter at KQED. Did you know that flour and water was all electric? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Commerical: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:38] \u003c/em>I did not know that they were all electric. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:59] \u003c/em>We’re gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, the health case for electric kitchens. By the way, if you appreciate the local deep dives that we bring you here on the Bay, consider becoming a sustaining KQED member. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. We’ll be right back. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:27] \u003c/em>I guess aside from the broader ecological benefits of going electric, what do experts say about the other benefits for restaurants going electric? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:38] \u003c/em>Just to like put a number on it, there’s a new study that actually came out this month that found that 70% of gas burning kitchens, so these are commercial kitchens that were studied, exceeded the recommended limits for nitrogen dioxide that’s like federal health standards. They also found, you know, like elevated levels of carbon dioxide, benzene, carbon monoxide. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rob Jackson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:04] \u003c/em>You would never stand over the tailpipe of your car breathing in those pollutants, and yet people stand over a stove breathing the same pollutants day after day, meal after meal. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:13] \u003c/em>I talked to Rob Jackson, he’s an environmental scientist at Stanford University, and he talked about this. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rob Jackson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:18] \u003c/em>We know that the pollution that’s created by burning fossil fuels is harmful, and there’s no reason to do that now when cleaner, better technologies are available. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:28] \u003c/em>And then imagine if you’re a chef in a kitchen, you’re standing over that burner for eight hours a day. And I talked to some of the chefs, they said like, it’s less greasy, you have a little bit more control. Like one thing they said about induction is like, you’ll never have a pot of cream boil over because with an induction cooktop, you can just like set it at a number and it’ll just stay there. Whereas with like flame, the heat transfer, things just get hotter and hotter. There is like some push back against cooking with induction or electric. A lot of chefs, you know, have hesitation around changing their cooking practices. The California Restaurant Association, which is this trade association group for the California restaurant industry, in a commercial from 2019, they said like, what about like searing meat or charring vegetables? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Commerical: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:23] \u003c/em>Or cooking food in a wok over high intensity heat. All of that would go away. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:28] \u003c/em>Some of that could be due to the fact that induction is still catching up to where it needs to be in terms of technology. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Commerical: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:36] \u003c/em>Try doing three or 400 covers a night on an electric stove. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:42] \u003c/em>How you cook is very personal. There’s cultural practices, there’s how you learned in cooking school, all these things that go into it. So, while McNaughton promotes this move that he’s made very heavily, a lot of people have doubts about it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:56] \u003c/em>Have there been any efforts at the local and statewide level to push more commercial kitchens to make this change?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:04] \u003c/em>There’s been like a specific push for commercial kitchens and there’s been a broader push just to get gas out of all buildings. So you can go back to like 2019 in Berkeley. Berkeley passed a ban on natural gas in new construction. And the city of Berkeley is leading the charge with the law that covers new construction. That got a lot of pushback from the California restaurant association that successfully defeated the, the band in the courts by arguing basically like Berkeley was overstepping its bounds. They were trying to regulate the efficiency of things when that’s the remit of the title. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Newscaster: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:40] \u003c/em>New at 10 tonight, the City of Berkeley lost its latest legal battle. Today, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit denied Berkeley’s petition for the court to rehear the case after the ban was ruled illegal last year. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:53] \u003c/em>There’s also efforts at the state level to incentivize kitchens specifically to go all electric. There’s rebates available through California utilities like PG&E for commercial kitchens to buy appliances. There’s these Chef Fluencers that is run by this group called the Building Decarbonization Coalition. And their jobs are basically to like preach the good word of induction and encourage people to adopt it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:22] \u003c/em>Yeah, there’s the practical piece of it of just making it easier, lowering the barriers for restaurants to get access to these things. But also there’s this norms piece of like really trying to get people in the restaurant industry to, I guess, see this as a thing that they could do that wouldn’t impact their food quality.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:46] \u003c/em>Yeah, I mean, you know, when most people think of electric cooking, they think of those like janky electric coil stoves.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:52] \u003c/em>Oh yeah, me too. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:53] \u003c/em>But like that’s not what this is. This is like the technology has come a long way.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:58] \u003c/em>I think that there’s some misconceptions about it. Oh my goodness, it’s not gonna achieve the same quality. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:06] \u003c/em>I spoke to Katie Chin. She’s a chef fluencer and a caterer based in Southern California. And she’s had her own journey with induction. Like when she first used it, she was like, oh no, like, you know, I’m a cater, I’m professional caterer. Like I gotta cook. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:22] \u003c/em>I had never cooked on one and it scared me. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:25] \u003c/em>She told me this story about being stuck in Southern California traffic on the way to a catering gig and actually being thankful that there was induction at her client’s house.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:36] \u003c/em>Seeing is believing. So I was able to boil the water for, you know, 600 dumplings in a fraction of the time it would have taken for me to use a gas stove and heat up all that water. \u003cem>[00:13:45]\u003c/em>\u003cem>[9.1]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:46] \u003c/em>She really says that people should try to keep an open mind.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:52] \u003c/em>And a lot of people associate like, well, how can you, how can get those great stir fries if you’re not like, you know how people flip the wok like this? I think the main stereotype is that, oh, it’s not gonna get hot enough. And I see no difference at all. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:09] \u003c/em>I gotta say, Azul, when I think about our state fighting climate change, I don’t really think about commercial kitchens very much, but how much of a difference could it actually make if more commercial kitchens in the state address their emissions?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:26] \u003c/em>I think it comes down to this thing where it’s like, as long as there are stoves with a gas pipe leading to them, we’re going to keep burning gas in this state. And if California is going to truly like decarbonize and get off gas, then we need to start looking at our buildings and restaurants are this very entrenched use of natural gas. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:55] \u003c/em>Azul, this was such an interesting story. Thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us. Appreciate it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:15:01] \u003c/em>You’re welcome. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The vast majority of commercial kitchens in California — some 85% — rely on gas to power their appliances. But scientists say that will have to change if the state hopes to reach its goal of net-zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2045. Bay Area food franchise Flour + Water is one of many local shops leading the charge away from gas appliances. In today’s episode, KQED reporter Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman visits an electric pizza kitchen to help us understand the benefits of electrification and what’s preventing more kitchens from making the switch. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:00] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. Many think of California as a leader when it comes to fighting climate change. We’ve got this ambitious goal of net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2045. But there are a lot of things that get in the way of that. Like our reliance on cars and perhaps one less obvious reason, how we cook. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:00] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. Many think of California as a leader when it comes to fighting climate change. We’ve got this ambitious goal of net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2045. But there are a lot of things that get in the way of that. Like our reliance on cars and perhaps one less obvious reason, how we cook. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:32] \u003c/em>As long as there are stoves with a gas pipe leading to them, we’re going to keep burning gas in this state. And restaurants are this very entrenched use of natural gas. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:47] \u003c/em>85% of California restaurants use gas to power their appliances. And it turns out, electrifying restaurant kitchens could actually play a pretty big role in getting us closer to our climate goals. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rob Jackson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:04] \u003c/em>We know that the pollution that’s created by burning fossil fuels is harmful and there’s no reason to do that now when cleaner, better technologies are available. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:14] \u003c/em>Today, the benefits of electrifying California’s restaurants and what it’s gonna take to get more of them on board. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:14] \u003c/em>Today, the benefits of electrifying California’s restaurants and what it’s gonna take to get more of them on board. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:30] \u003c/em>You know, we think of California as like this leader in climate change, right? We have more efficient fuel for our cars. We invest in transit and carpooling and all this stuff. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:39] \u003c/em>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman is a reporter for KQED. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:44] \u003c/em>Buildings, and then restaurants in particular, are this one place where we’re really behind. Buildings are responsible for about a quarter of all of California’s greenhouse gas emissions and restaurants in our state use gas at a much higher rate than other states. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:44] \u003c/em>Buildings, and then restaurants in particular, are this one place where we’re really behind. Buildings are responsible for about a quarter of all of California’s greenhouse gas emissions and restaurants in our state use gas at a much higher rate than other states. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brandy Seals: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:03] \u003c/em>This is a sleeper issue. A lot of people don’t realize it. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brandy Seals: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:03] \u003c/em>This is a sleeper issue. A lot of people don’t realize it. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:07] \u003c/em>Brandy Seals is the Director of the Electrification for Health program at Stanford University. And they’re really looking at benefits of electrifying. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brandy Seals: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:18] \u003c/em>So when you look at commercial spaces, kitchens, and food service, they have about five times the energy usage of a standard office. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brandy Seals: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:18] \u003c/em>So when you look at commercial spaces, kitchens, and food service, they have about five times the energy usage of a standard office. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:28] \u003c/em>She says that commercial kitchens really like punch above their weight. Because restaurants use gas, they’re also sort of cementing this demand for gas. So she says that if we’re gonna really address this issue of climate change, we need to start looking at buildings and specifically restaurants. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:28] \u003c/em>She says that commercial kitchens really like punch above their weight. Because restaurants use gas, they’re also sort of cementing this demand for gas. So she says that if we’re gonna really address this issue of climate change, we need to start looking at buildings and specifically restaurants. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:48] \u003c/em>So it sounds like commercial kitchens are maybe an untapped space for electrification that I’m definitely not thinking about. But what are the barriers to actually making it happen and also making it more common? \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:03] \u003c/em>Well, I think like, first off, just put yourself in the shoes of a restaurant owner, right? Restaurants run on extremely thin margins. You know, there’s a lot of turnover, like, you know, most restaurants don’t even make it a year, right. And in order to switch to electricity, that’s a big investment, right, most restaurants are going to come with gas hookups for your appliances. But in order to switch electric, you gotta get a new panel, you got to pay for new electric service. You gotta buy these appliances. Electricity, not cheap in California. I mean, we have the most expensive electricity in the Continental 48. There’s also not as much of a demand in the market. So it’s just kind of like this small niche thing that’s growing that is kind of still waiting to see its moment. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:03] \u003c/em>Well, I think like, first off, just put yourself in the shoes of a restaurant owner, right? Restaurants run on extremely thin margins. You know, there’s a lot of turnover, like, you know, most restaurants don’t even make it a year, right. And in order to switch to electricity, that’s a big investment, right, most restaurants are going to come with gas hookups for your appliances. But in order to switch electric, you gotta get a new panel, you got to pay for new electric service. You gotta buy these appliances. Electricity, not cheap in California. I mean, we have the most expensive electricity in the Continental 48. There’s also not as much of a demand in the market. So it’s just kind of like this small niche thing that’s growing that is kind of still waiting to see its moment. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:59] \u003c/em>So you visited a restaurant that actually went electric. Who did you meet and what did they say about the practical barriers that they faced? \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:11] \u003c/em>Can we do a little tour? \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:12] \u003c/em>Yeah, of course. So our pantry section or garmagé. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:12] \u003c/em>Yeah, of course. So our pantry section or garmagé. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:16] \u003c/em>So I went to Flower and Water. They have a pizza shop in Oakland, but they’re part of this restaurant group. They’ve essentially committed to making all of their future restaurants electric.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:16] \u003c/em>So I went to Flower and Water. They have a pizza shop in Oakland, but they’re part of this restaurant group. They’ve essentially committed to making all of their future restaurants electric.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:29] \u003c/em>Machines, slushies, burners, fryers, everything here runs on electric.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:29] \u003c/em>Machines, slushies, burners, fryers, everything here runs on electric.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:35] \u003c/em>I talked to their CEO, Thomas McNaughton. He said basically, when you said like electric oven to him like 10 years ago, he was like, he thought of like an Easy Bake Oven, you know, like a toy. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:35] \u003c/em>I talked to their CEO, Thomas McNaughton. He said basically, when you said like electric oven to him like 10 years ago, he was like, he thought of like an Easy Bake Oven, you know, like a toy. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:45] \u003c/em>And I didn’t realize how evolved the technology really is. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:49] \u003c/em>But he said that changed around six years ago. He started seeing these electric ovens that were like really powerful. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:56] \u003c/em>And that kind of introduced us to the idea, saying, like, if this oven is so powerful, couldn’t we build our entire operation around electricity?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:56] \u003c/em>And that kind of introduced us to the idea, saying, like, if this oven is so powerful, couldn’t we build our entire operation around electricity?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:07] \u003c/em>He said that sustainability is like a really important value of theirs. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:11] \u003c/em>Sustainability for us is not just where we buy our seafood from. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:11] \u003c/em>Sustainability for us is not just where we buy our seafood from. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:19] \u003c/em>In terms of like the challenges that he faced, he said that whether or not a space has the ability to like accommodate the electrical load that like an electric kitchen requires is a limiting factor.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:19] \u003c/em>In terms of like the challenges that he faced, he said that whether or not a space has the ability to like accommodate the electrical load that like an electric kitchen requires is a limiting factor.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:36] \u003c/em>A lot of older properties we’re not able to look at. And so that’s one that can feel somewhat constricting at times. Problem solving is one of the most fascinating parts of the job of a chef or a restaurateur. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:36] \u003c/em>A lot of older properties we’re not able to look at. And so that’s one that can feel somewhat constricting at times. Problem solving is one of the most fascinating parts of the job of a chef or a restaurateur. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:51] \u003c/em>And that sounds kind of expensive, maybe? What was that process like?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:51] \u003c/em>And that sounds kind of expensive, maybe? What was that process like?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:55] \u003c/em>What McNaughton said is that in general to buy electric appliances is a little more expensive than gas ones, to run them is more expensive. They spend about $8,000 a month at their Oakland location on electricity, which is like 34 times higher than the average household in California. Oh my goodness. So it’s a considerable load. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:55] \u003c/em>What McNaughton said is that in general to buy electric appliances is a little more expensive than gas ones, to run them is more expensive. They spend about $8,000 a month at their Oakland location on electricity, which is like 34 times higher than the average household in California. Oh my goodness. So it’s a considerable load. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:16] \u003c/em>That’s a lot of money every month, Azul, for electricity. I mean, what makes it worth it for him? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:16] \u003c/em>That’s a lot of money every month, Azul, for electricity. I mean, what makes it worth it for him? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:22] \u003c/em>Well, I think on one hand, you know, he said sustainability is like a big part of their business So there is value in sort of like a non numerical thing for them I think now it’s sort of liked baked in no pun intended into their business, right? Like they are an electric Restaurant and it’s part of like kind of the identity of their pizza \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:46] \u003c/em>And really, these electric ovens, I think, really are creating this kind of new wave of pizza making because they’re so powerful, because you can toggle both deck top and bottom heat. It actually, we can incorporate a fair amount of char, like a Neapolitan pizza, but actually slow down the bake time. And that incorporates a lot more texture into our high-hydration dough that, to me, is incredibly craveable. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:46] \u003c/em>And really, these electric ovens, I think, really are creating this kind of new wave of pizza making because they’re so powerful, because you can toggle both deck top and bottom heat. It actually, we can incorporate a fair amount of char, like a Neapolitan pizza, but actually slow down the bake time. And that incorporates a lot more texture into our high-hydration dough that, to me, is incredibly craveable. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:16] \u003c/em>Did you taste it?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:16] \u003c/em>Did you taste it?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:17] \u003c/em>I did. yeah, I mean flower waters. It’s good pizza. I don’t think that’s a controversial take McNaughton’s like a finalist for like the James Beard Awards before so \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:17] \u003c/em>I did. yeah, I mean flower waters. It’s good pizza. I don’t think that’s a controversial take McNaughton’s like a finalist for like the James Beard Awards before so \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:29] \u003c/em>Yeah, they’re doing pretty well. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:29] \u003c/em>Yeah, they’re doing pretty well. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:31] \u003c/em>Yeah. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:32] \u003c/em>So my name’s Azul, I’m a reporter at KQED. Did you know that flour and water was all electric? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:32] \u003c/em>So my name’s Azul, I’m a reporter at KQED. Did you know that flour and water was all electric? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Commerical: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:38] \u003c/em>I did not know that they were all electric. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:59] \u003c/em>We’re gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, the health case for electric kitchens. By the way, if you appreciate the local deep dives that we bring you here on the Bay, consider becoming a sustaining KQED member. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. We’ll be right back. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:59] \u003c/em>We’re gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, the health case for electric kitchens. By the way, if you appreciate the local deep dives that we bring you here on the Bay, consider becoming a sustaining KQED member. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. We’ll be right back. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:38] \u003c/em>Just to like put a number on it, there’s a new study that actually came out this month that found that 70% of gas burning kitchens, so these are commercial kitchens that were studied, exceeded the recommended limits for nitrogen dioxide that’s like federal health standards. They also found, you know, like elevated levels of carbon dioxide, benzene, carbon monoxide. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rob Jackson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:04] \u003c/em>You would never stand over the tailpipe of your car breathing in those pollutants, and yet people stand over a stove breathing the same pollutants day after day, meal after meal. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:13] \u003c/em>I talked to Rob Jackson, he’s an environmental scientist at Stanford University, and he talked about this. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rob Jackson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:18] \u003c/em>We know that the pollution that’s created by burning fossil fuels is harmful, and there’s no reason to do that now when cleaner, better technologies are available. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:28] \u003c/em>And then imagine if you’re a chef in a kitchen, you’re standing over that burner for eight hours a day. And I talked to some of the chefs, they said like, it’s less greasy, you have a little bit more control. Like one thing they said about induction is like, you’ll never have a pot of cream boil over because with an induction cooktop, you can just like set it at a number and it’ll just stay there. Whereas with like flame, the heat transfer, things just get hotter and hotter. There is like some push back against cooking with induction or electric. A lot of chefs, you know, have hesitation around changing their cooking practices. The California Restaurant Association, which is this trade association group for the California restaurant industry, in a commercial from 2019, they said like, what about like searing meat or charring vegetables? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:28] \u003c/em>And then imagine if you’re a chef in a kitchen, you’re standing over that burner for eight hours a day. And I talked to some of the chefs, they said like, it’s less greasy, you have a little bit more control. Like one thing they said about induction is like, you’ll never have a pot of cream boil over because with an induction cooktop, you can just like set it at a number and it’ll just stay there. Whereas with like flame, the heat transfer, things just get hotter and hotter. There is like some push back against cooking with induction or electric. A lot of chefs, you know, have hesitation around changing their cooking practices. The California Restaurant Association, which is this trade association group for the California restaurant industry, in a commercial from 2019, they said like, what about like searing meat or charring vegetables? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Commerical: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:23] \u003c/em>Or cooking food in a wok over high intensity heat. All of that would go away. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:28] \u003c/em>Some of that could be due to the fact that induction is still catching up to where it needs to be in terms of technology. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Commerical: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:36] \u003c/em>Try doing three or 400 covers a night on an electric stove. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:42] \u003c/em>How you cook is very personal. There’s cultural practices, there’s how you learned in cooking school, all these things that go into it. So, while McNaughton promotes this move that he’s made very heavily, a lot of people have doubts about it. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:42] \u003c/em>How you cook is very personal. There’s cultural practices, there’s how you learned in cooking school, all these things that go into it. So, while McNaughton promotes this move that he’s made very heavily, a lot of people have doubts about it. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:56] \u003c/em>Have there been any efforts at the local and statewide level to push more commercial kitchens to make this change?\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:04] \u003c/em>There’s been like a specific push for commercial kitchens and there’s been a broader push just to get gas out of all buildings. So you can go back to like 2019 in Berkeley. Berkeley passed a ban on natural gas in new construction. And the city of Berkeley is leading the charge with the law that covers new construction. That got a lot of pushback from the California restaurant association that successfully defeated the, the band in the courts by arguing basically like Berkeley was overstepping its bounds. They were trying to regulate the efficiency of things when that’s the remit of the title. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:04] \u003c/em>There’s been like a specific push for commercial kitchens and there’s been a broader push just to get gas out of all buildings. So you can go back to like 2019 in Berkeley. Berkeley passed a ban on natural gas in new construction. And the city of Berkeley is leading the charge with the law that covers new construction. That got a lot of pushback from the California restaurant association that successfully defeated the, the band in the courts by arguing basically like Berkeley was overstepping its bounds. They were trying to regulate the efficiency of things when that’s the remit of the title. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Newscaster: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:40] \u003c/em>New at 10 tonight, the City of Berkeley lost its latest legal battle. Today, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit denied Berkeley’s petition for the court to rehear the case after the ban was ruled illegal last year. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Newscaster: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:40] \u003c/em>New at 10 tonight, the City of Berkeley lost its latest legal battle. Today, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit denied Berkeley’s petition for the court to rehear the case after the ban was ruled illegal last year. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:53] \u003c/em>There’s also efforts at the state level to incentivize kitchens specifically to go all electric. There’s rebates available through California utilities like PG&E for commercial kitchens to buy appliances. There’s these Chef Fluencers that is run by this group called the Building Decarbonization Coalition. And their jobs are basically to like preach the good word of induction and encourage people to adopt it. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:22] \u003c/em>Yeah, there’s the practical piece of it of just making it easier, lowering the barriers for restaurants to get access to these things. But also there’s this norms piece of like really trying to get people in the restaurant industry to, I guess, see this as a thing that they could do that wouldn’t impact their food quality.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:22] \u003c/em>Yeah, there’s the practical piece of it of just making it easier, lowering the barriers for restaurants to get access to these things. But also there’s this norms piece of like really trying to get people in the restaurant industry to, I guess, see this as a thing that they could do that wouldn’t impact their food quality.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:46] \u003c/em>Yeah, I mean, you know, when most people think of electric cooking, they think of those like janky electric coil stoves.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:52] \u003c/em>Oh yeah, me too. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:53] \u003c/em>But like that’s not what this is. This is like the technology has come a long way.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:53] \u003c/em>But like that’s not what this is. This is like the technology has come a long way.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:58] \u003c/em>I think that there’s some misconceptions about it. Oh my goodness, it’s not gonna achieve the same quality. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:58] \u003c/em>I think that there’s some misconceptions about it. Oh my goodness, it’s not gonna achieve the same quality. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:06] \u003c/em>I spoke to Katie Chin. She’s a chef fluencer and a caterer based in Southern California. And she’s had her own journey with induction. Like when she first used it, she was like, oh no, like, you know, I’m a cater, I’m professional caterer. Like I gotta cook. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:06] \u003c/em>I spoke to Katie Chin. She’s a chef fluencer and a caterer based in Southern California. And she’s had her own journey with induction. Like when she first used it, she was like, oh no, like, you know, I’m a cater, I’m professional caterer. Like I gotta cook. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:22] \u003c/em>I had never cooked on one and it scared me. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:22] \u003c/em>I had never cooked on one and it scared me. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:25] \u003c/em>She told me this story about being stuck in Southern California traffic on the way to a catering gig and actually being thankful that there was induction at her client’s house.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:25] \u003c/em>She told me this story about being stuck in Southern California traffic on the way to a catering gig and actually being thankful that there was induction at her client’s house.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:36] \u003c/em>Seeing is believing. So I was able to boil the water for, you know, 600 dumplings in a fraction of the time it would have taken for me to use a gas stove and heat up all that water. \u003cem>[00:13:45]\u003c/em>\u003cem>[9.1]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:36] \u003c/em>Seeing is believing. So I was able to boil the water for, you know, 600 dumplings in a fraction of the time it would have taken for me to use a gas stove and heat up all that water. \u003cem>[00:13:45]\u003c/em>\u003cem>[9.1]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:46] \u003c/em>She really says that people should try to keep an open mind.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:52] \u003c/em>And a lot of people associate like, well, how can you, how can get those great stir fries if you’re not like, you know how people flip the wok like this? I think the main stereotype is that, oh, it’s not gonna get hot enough. And I see no difference at all. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:52] \u003c/em>And a lot of people associate like, well, how can you, how can get those great stir fries if you’re not like, you know how people flip the wok like this? I think the main stereotype is that, oh, it’s not gonna get hot enough. And I see no difference at all. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:09] \u003c/em>I gotta say, Azul, when I think about our state fighting climate change, I don’t really think about commercial kitchens very much, but how much of a difference could it actually make if more commercial kitchens in the state address their emissions?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:09] \u003c/em>I gotta say, Azul, when I think about our state fighting climate change, I don’t really think about commercial kitchens very much, but how much of a difference could it actually make if more commercial kitchens in the state address their emissions?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:26] \u003c/em>I think it comes down to this thing where it’s like, as long as there are stoves with a gas pipe leading to them, we’re going to keep burning gas in this state. And if California is going to truly like decarbonize and get off gas, then we need to start looking at our buildings and restaurants are this very entrenched use of natural gas. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:26] \u003c/em>I think it comes down to this thing where it’s like, as long as there are stoves with a gas pipe leading to them, we’re going to keep burning gas in this state. And if California is going to truly like decarbonize and get off gas, then we need to start looking at our buildings and restaurants are this very entrenched use of natural gas. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:55] \u003c/em>Azul, this was such an interesting story. Thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us. Appreciate it. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:55] \u003c/em>Azul, this was such an interesting story. Thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us. Appreciate it. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:15:01] \u003c/em>You’re welcome. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:15:01] \u003c/em>You’re welcome. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "Converting restaurant kitchens to electric might be just what California needs to reach its ambitious climate goals.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>The vast majority of commercial kitchens in California — some 85% — rely on gas to power their appliances. But scientists say that will have to change if the state hopes to reach its goal of net-zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2045. Bay Area food franchise Flour + Water is one of many local shops leading the charge away from gas appliances. In today’s episode, KQED reporter Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman visits an electric pizza kitchen to help us understand the benefits of electrification and what’s preventing more kitchens from making the switch. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/2002089/heres-what-all-electric-bay-area-restaurants-have-learned-from-ditching-gas\">Here’s What All-Electric Bay Area Restaurants Have Learned From Ditching Gas\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Episode Transcript\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This transcript is computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:00] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. Many think of California as a leader when it comes to fighting climate change. We’ve got this ambitious goal of net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2045. But there are a lot of things that get in the way of that. Like our reliance on cars and perhaps one less obvious reason, how we cook. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:32] \u003c/em>As long as there are stoves with a gas pipe leading to them, we’re going to keep burning gas in this state. And restaurants are this very entrenched use of natural gas. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:47] \u003c/em>85% of California restaurants use gas to power their appliances. And it turns out, electrifying restaurant kitchens could actually play a pretty big role in getting us closer to our climate goals. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rob Jackson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:04] \u003c/em>We know that the pollution that’s created by burning fossil fuels is harmful and there’s no reason to do that now when cleaner, better technologies are available. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:14] \u003c/em>Today, the benefits of electrifying California’s restaurants and what it’s gonna take to get more of them on board. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:30] \u003c/em>You know, we think of California as like this leader in climate change, right? We have more efficient fuel for our cars. We invest in transit and carpooling and all this stuff. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:39] \u003c/em>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman is a reporter for KQED. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:44] \u003c/em>Buildings, and then restaurants in particular, are this one place where we’re really behind. Buildings are responsible for about a quarter of all of California’s greenhouse gas emissions and restaurants in our state use gas at a much higher rate than other states. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brandy Seals: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:03] \u003c/em>This is a sleeper issue. A lot of people don’t realize it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:07] \u003c/em>Brandy Seals is the Director of the Electrification for Health program at Stanford University. And they’re really looking at benefits of electrifying. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Brandy Seals: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:18] \u003c/em>So when you look at commercial spaces, kitchens, and food service, they have about five times the energy usage of a standard office. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:28] \u003c/em>She says that commercial kitchens really like punch above their weight. Because restaurants use gas, they’re also sort of cementing this demand for gas. So she says that if we’re gonna really address this issue of climate change, we need to start looking at buildings and specifically restaurants. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:48] \u003c/em>So it sounds like commercial kitchens are maybe an untapped space for electrification that I’m definitely not thinking about. But what are the barriers to actually making it happen and also making it more common? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:03] \u003c/em>Well, I think like, first off, just put yourself in the shoes of a restaurant owner, right? Restaurants run on extremely thin margins. You know, there’s a lot of turnover, like, you know, most restaurants don’t even make it a year, right. And in order to switch to electricity, that’s a big investment, right, most restaurants are going to come with gas hookups for your appliances. But in order to switch electric, you gotta get a new panel, you got to pay for new electric service. You gotta buy these appliances. Electricity, not cheap in California. I mean, we have the most expensive electricity in the Continental 48. There’s also not as much of a demand in the market. So it’s just kind of like this small niche thing that’s growing that is kind of still waiting to see its moment. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:59] \u003c/em>So you visited a restaurant that actually went electric. Who did you meet and what did they say about the practical barriers that they faced? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:11] \u003c/em>Can we do a little tour? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:12] \u003c/em>Yeah, of course. So our pantry section or garmagé. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:16] \u003c/em>So I went to Flower and Water. They have a pizza shop in Oakland, but they’re part of this restaurant group. They’ve essentially committed to making all of their future restaurants electric.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:29] \u003c/em>Machines, slushies, burners, fryers, everything here runs on electric.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:35] \u003c/em>I talked to their CEO, Thomas McNaughton. He said basically, when you said like electric oven to him like 10 years ago, he was like, he thought of like an Easy Bake Oven, you know, like a toy. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:45] \u003c/em>And I didn’t realize how evolved the technology really is. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:49] \u003c/em>But he said that changed around six years ago. He started seeing these electric ovens that were like really powerful. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:56] \u003c/em>And that kind of introduced us to the idea, saying, like, if this oven is so powerful, couldn’t we build our entire operation around electricity?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:07] \u003c/em>He said that sustainability is like a really important value of theirs. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:11] \u003c/em>Sustainability for us is not just where we buy our seafood from. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:19] \u003c/em>In terms of like the challenges that he faced, he said that whether or not a space has the ability to like accommodate the electrical load that like an electric kitchen requires is a limiting factor.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:36] \u003c/em>A lot of older properties we’re not able to look at. And so that’s one that can feel somewhat constricting at times. Problem solving is one of the most fascinating parts of the job of a chef or a restaurateur. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:51] \u003c/em>And that sounds kind of expensive, maybe? What was that process like?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:55] \u003c/em>What McNaughton said is that in general to buy electric appliances is a little more expensive than gas ones, to run them is more expensive. They spend about $8,000 a month at their Oakland location on electricity, which is like 34 times higher than the average household in California. Oh my goodness. So it’s a considerable load. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:16] \u003c/em>That’s a lot of money every month, Azul, for electricity. I mean, what makes it worth it for him? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:22] \u003c/em>Well, I think on one hand, you know, he said sustainability is like a big part of their business So there is value in sort of like a non numerical thing for them I think now it’s sort of liked baked in no pun intended into their business, right? Like they are an electric Restaurant and it’s part of like kind of the identity of their pizza \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Thomas McNaughton: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:46] \u003c/em>And really, these electric ovens, I think, really are creating this kind of new wave of pizza making because they’re so powerful, because you can toggle both deck top and bottom heat. It actually, we can incorporate a fair amount of char, like a Neapolitan pizza, but actually slow down the bake time. And that incorporates a lot more texture into our high-hydration dough that, to me, is incredibly craveable. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:16] \u003c/em>Did you taste it?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:17] \u003c/em>I did. yeah, I mean flower waters. It’s good pizza. I don’t think that’s a controversial take McNaughton’s like a finalist for like the James Beard Awards before so \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:29] \u003c/em>Yeah, they’re doing pretty well. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:31] \u003c/em>Yeah. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:32] \u003c/em>So my name’s Azul, I’m a reporter at KQED. Did you know that flour and water was all electric? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Commerical: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:38] \u003c/em>I did not know that they were all electric. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:59] \u003c/em>We’re gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, the health case for electric kitchens. By the way, if you appreciate the local deep dives that we bring you here on the Bay, consider becoming a sustaining KQED member. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. We’ll be right back. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:27] \u003c/em>I guess aside from the broader ecological benefits of going electric, what do experts say about the other benefits for restaurants going electric? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:38] \u003c/em>Just to like put a number on it, there’s a new study that actually came out this month that found that 70% of gas burning kitchens, so these are commercial kitchens that were studied, exceeded the recommended limits for nitrogen dioxide that’s like federal health standards. They also found, you know, like elevated levels of carbon dioxide, benzene, carbon monoxide. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rob Jackson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:04] \u003c/em>You would never stand over the tailpipe of your car breathing in those pollutants, and yet people stand over a stove breathing the same pollutants day after day, meal after meal. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:13] \u003c/em>I talked to Rob Jackson, he’s an environmental scientist at Stanford University, and he talked about this. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rob Jackson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:18] \u003c/em>We know that the pollution that’s created by burning fossil fuels is harmful, and there’s no reason to do that now when cleaner, better technologies are available. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:28] \u003c/em>And then imagine if you’re a chef in a kitchen, you’re standing over that burner for eight hours a day. And I talked to some of the chefs, they said like, it’s less greasy, you have a little bit more control. Like one thing they said about induction is like, you’ll never have a pot of cream boil over because with an induction cooktop, you can just like set it at a number and it’ll just stay there. Whereas with like flame, the heat transfer, things just get hotter and hotter. There is like some push back against cooking with induction or electric. A lot of chefs, you know, have hesitation around changing their cooking practices. The California Restaurant Association, which is this trade association group for the California restaurant industry, in a commercial from 2019, they said like, what about like searing meat or charring vegetables? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Commerical: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:23] \u003c/em>Or cooking food in a wok over high intensity heat. All of that would go away. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:28] \u003c/em>Some of that could be due to the fact that induction is still catching up to where it needs to be in terms of technology. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Commerical: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:36] \u003c/em>Try doing three or 400 covers a night on an electric stove. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:42] \u003c/em>How you cook is very personal. There’s cultural practices, there’s how you learned in cooking school, all these things that go into it. So, while McNaughton promotes this move that he’s made very heavily, a lot of people have doubts about it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:56] \u003c/em>Have there been any efforts at the local and statewide level to push more commercial kitchens to make this change?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:04] \u003c/em>There’s been like a specific push for commercial kitchens and there’s been a broader push just to get gas out of all buildings. So you can go back to like 2019 in Berkeley. Berkeley passed a ban on natural gas in new construction. And the city of Berkeley is leading the charge with the law that covers new construction. That got a lot of pushback from the California restaurant association that successfully defeated the, the band in the courts by arguing basically like Berkeley was overstepping its bounds. They were trying to regulate the efficiency of things when that’s the remit of the title. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Newscaster: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:40] \u003c/em>New at 10 tonight, the City of Berkeley lost its latest legal battle. Today, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit denied Berkeley’s petition for the court to rehear the case after the ban was ruled illegal last year. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:53] \u003c/em>There’s also efforts at the state level to incentivize kitchens specifically to go all electric. There’s rebates available through California utilities like PG&E for commercial kitchens to buy appliances. There’s these Chef Fluencers that is run by this group called the Building Decarbonization Coalition. And their jobs are basically to like preach the good word of induction and encourage people to adopt it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:22] \u003c/em>Yeah, there’s the practical piece of it of just making it easier, lowering the barriers for restaurants to get access to these things. But also there’s this norms piece of like really trying to get people in the restaurant industry to, I guess, see this as a thing that they could do that wouldn’t impact their food quality.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:46] \u003c/em>Yeah, I mean, you know, when most people think of electric cooking, they think of those like janky electric coil stoves.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:52] \u003c/em>Oh yeah, me too. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:53] \u003c/em>But like that’s not what this is. This is like the technology has come a long way.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:58] \u003c/em>I think that there’s some misconceptions about it. Oh my goodness, it’s not gonna achieve the same quality. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:06] \u003c/em>I spoke to Katie Chin. She’s a chef fluencer and a caterer based in Southern California. And she’s had her own journey with induction. Like when she first used it, she was like, oh no, like, you know, I’m a cater, I’m professional caterer. Like I gotta cook. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:22] \u003c/em>I had never cooked on one and it scared me. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:25] \u003c/em>She told me this story about being stuck in Southern California traffic on the way to a catering gig and actually being thankful that there was induction at her client’s house.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:36] \u003c/em>Seeing is believing. So I was able to boil the water for, you know, 600 dumplings in a fraction of the time it would have taken for me to use a gas stove and heat up all that water. \u003cem>[00:13:45]\u003c/em>\u003cem>[9.1]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:46] \u003c/em>She really says that people should try to keep an open mind.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie Chin: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:52] \u003c/em>And a lot of people associate like, well, how can you, how can get those great stir fries if you’re not like, you know how people flip the wok like this? I think the main stereotype is that, oh, it’s not gonna get hot enough. And I see no difference at all. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:09] \u003c/em>I gotta say, Azul, when I think about our state fighting climate change, I don’t really think about commercial kitchens very much, but how much of a difference could it actually make if more commercial kitchens in the state address their emissions?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:26] \u003c/em>I think it comes down to this thing where it’s like, as long as there are stoves with a gas pipe leading to them, we’re going to keep burning gas in this state. And if California is going to truly like decarbonize and get off gas, then we need to start looking at our buildings and restaurants are this very entrenched use of natural gas. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:55] \u003c/em>Azul, this was such an interesting story. Thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us. Appreciate it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:15:01] \u003c/em>You’re welcome. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"headTitle": "Why Angel Island Needs Fire | KQED",
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"content": "\n\u003cp>In September, prescribed burns on Angel Island sent smoke and at-times dangerous air quality to residents around the Bay Area. While Air District officials want to improve controlled burns on the island, environmental managers say the recent burn was a win. Today, Bay Nature reporter Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida takes us on a journey to Angel Island to see the burn area through the eyes of the environmental stewards behind it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://baynature.org/author/daniella/\">\u003cu>Smoke Aside, the Angel Island Fire Was a Win for the Island’s Wild Landscapes \u003c/u>\u003c/a>(Bay Nature)\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. So back in September, I was taking the ferry into San Francisco when the familiar smell of fire started to fill the boat.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>News Tape: \u003c/strong>Smoke here in the Bay Area, but where was it from? Well, a prescribed burn right here on Angel Island. It sent out a tremendous amount of smoke. I’ve never seen so much smoke from a prescribed…\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Angel Island was on fire and the haze outside of the Ferry window was almost blinding. Over the course of a few hours, the smoke had wafted into the East Bay and San Francisco and even as far as San Jose, sometimes at unhealthy levels.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniel Lurie: \u003c/strong>Ooh, it is actually very noticeable downtown right now. We’re getting a lot of calls and I understand why these. I also smell the smoke and air. If you have health issues, underlying health concerns, there is a good amount of smoke in there. So take care of yourselves, stay indoors if you need to. And we’ll keep you posted if anything changes.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong> While it was easy to mistake this for an emergency, the burning on Angel Island was actually intentional. These planned fires, which help clear up debris, are one of the state’s best tools for preventing bigger, more catastrophic wildfires. The controlled fires were halted because of the complaints, but the island’s caretakers say It was a huge win for the island’s wild landscapes.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>Although right now we look around and we see the blacks surrounding us and we see what we might understand from our contemporary view of fire as destruction or devastation, what we’re really seeing is a natural process of renewal.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Today we’re going on a journey to Angel Island with Bay Nature reporter, Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida to understand the recent prescribed burns through the eyes of the environmental stewards behind it and why they say the benefits of this burn stand to outlast the smoke.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Even going back to Smokey the Bear, I think a lot of people in California are used to preventing fire at all costs. But even before we were here, cultural burning was an important way to steward the land. And I think we’re starting to see how we can use fire to also steward our land and prevent these catastrophic wildfires.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I know you actually went to Angel Island this month to kind of try and understand this burn a little bit better and peel back the curtain a little. Can you tell me a little more about what you were hoping to understand by going to Angel Island?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of places miss out on the aftermath of a burn, especially a prescribed burn. So my goal was to get out there and look at the impacts on the island’s ecology, learn more about what will happen after the burn, what we’ll see after the rains and the winter, and just how it’ll change the island. So there’s only a couple ways to get there. And the best way to get there is through the SF ferry.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scene tape: \u003c/strong>Welcome aboard Golden Gate Ferry. The United States Coast Guard requires all passengers to know the locations of lifejackets and muster stations on board….\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Okay, so you ride the ferry to Angel Island and then you get there. What is your plan? Like, what did you do next?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>The plan was to go out with two people that were there for both days of the burn. They were helping with the effort.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>My name is Sarah Gibson and I am our statewide burn boss at California State Parks.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>My name is Naftali Moed, I work for California State Parks Bay Area District and I lead our wildfire and forest resilience work here at the state parks in Marin, Sonoma and Napa counties.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>And they were there to take us on a hike of the most recently burned areas that they burned these past two days in September.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-in-charscape_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-1-e275c6d5-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12104829\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-in-charscape_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-1-e275c6d5-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-in-charscape_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-1-e275c6d5-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-in-charscape_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-1-e275c6d5-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-in-charscape_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-1-e275c6d5-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-in-charscape_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-1-e275c6d5-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Charred grasses and shrubs after the prescribed burns \u003cem>(Daniella Garcia-\u003cem>Loos\u003c/em> Almeida, Bay Nature)\u003c/em>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>Do y’all need facilities or water or anything else before we head up the hill?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>For people who actually haven’t been to Angel Island, can you like sort of paint a picture for me?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah, Angel Island is the biggest island in the whole Bay Area. I had never been there before either. It certainly seemed a lot bigger than I expected when we got there and a lot more wooded than I expected.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>To your point, exactly what you will see as soon as you get off the boat is our amazing oak woodlands and also some forests that are dominated by Monterey pine trees…\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>There’s hundreds of eucalyptus trees that were planted there by the military way back when.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>If you look closely you’ll get to start to see a lot of the animals that we have out here too. We just saw a coyote a few minutes ago, there’s many many deer.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>And I guess the other part that I didn’t expect was that the island is full of these historic buildings, including the Angel Island Immigration Station.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>There’s so much beauty out here and so much history and on the wildfire side so much potential for something terrible to happen and we’ll talk a little bit about that too.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so there is a lot on the island to protect and also a lot there that could potentially catch on fire. So tell me more about what they were trying to prevent from happening here.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/9.8.2026-firefighters-on-holding_CalFire_Angel-Is.-Rx-burn-1-71ce54fd-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12104826\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/9.8.2026-firefighters-on-holding_CalFire_Angel-Is.-Rx-burn-1-71ce54fd-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/9.8.2026-firefighters-on-holding_CalFire_Angel-Is.-Rx-burn-1-71ce54fd-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/9.8.2026-firefighters-on-holding_CalFire_Angel-Is.-Rx-burn-1-71ce54fd-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/9.8.2026-firefighters-on-holding_CalFire_Angel-Is.-Rx-burn-1-71ce54fd-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/9.8.2026-firefighters-on-holding_CalFire_Angel-Is.-Rx-burn-1-71ce54fd-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Firefighters attend to the prescribed burn on Angel Island on September 8, 2026\u003cem> (CalFire)\u003c/em>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>They were trying to prevent another catastrophic wildfire from happening. The last wildfire happened in 2008 called the Angel Fire, and it burned almost half of the island and they were so lucky that it didn’t get to any of the historic buildings. That fire started on a Sunday at like 8 p.m. at night and they had to find a way to get all of these fire trucks out there. What takes maybe a couple of minutes like here in Berkeley, took over a day to get just all the personnel out there. So they’re really trying to prevent something like that from happening.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>Again, once a large fire is established on the island, it’s incredibly difficult to manage. And that’s, I think, one of the hardest things for us to convey to the public, is the difficulty and potentially the harm, not just to the island and the structures and the ecology out here, but also to the Bay Area community by and large, from the volume of smoke that’s produced during a significant or catastrophic wildfire.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So fighting a fire there is, it sounds like, a logistical challenge, but as I understand it so is planning for a prescribed burn. Tell me about that planning process.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I mean to me it seems like a logistical nightmare.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>It takes years to get to implementation day.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>They usually start these fires really early in the morning, as early as they can. They have to get seven fire engines out there on a boat. The boat can only carry one engine at a time, takes at least half an hour to get there. You also have to get all these dozens of firefighters, all the staff. Then to pick a day, they have to look at weather models. They have to look at the wind.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>It’s just like when you’re flying an airplane. You have a checklist to go through, getting permission from the agency to burn, notifying the dispatch centers who would get 911 calls. And when we get that go, we go to what’s called a test fire. And in that test fire, the first thing we actually look for is the smoke.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>they want the fire and the smoke to go straight up. If it goes straight up, it’ll start to blend with the air in the atmosphere.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>We’re checking to make sure that fire is quote-unquote behaving the way that we want in that test fire.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>All of this to prevent smoke from reaching all the seven million people that live around here. So really they have to be looking at these wind models and even after all this modeling, talking to the National Weather Service, it can still change.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>See all the fog is rolling in? You may have also noticed the wind picked up as we rounded the corner. One of the many, many challenges that we have certainly burning, but really doing anything out here on Angel Island is navigating the weather.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/gibson-n-moed-at-burn-site_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-a3524709-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12104828\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/gibson-n-moed-at-burn-site_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-a3524709-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/gibson-n-moed-at-burn-site_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-a3524709-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/gibson-n-moed-at-burn-site_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-a3524709-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/gibson-n-moed-at-burn-site_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-a3524709-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/gibson-n-moed-at-burn-site_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-a3524709-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Naftali Moed and Sarah Gibson examine the burn site \u003cem>(\u003cem>Daniella Garcia-\u003cem>Loos\u003c/em> Almeida\u003c/em>, Bay Nature)\u003c/em>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Can you actually talk a little bit more about the weather factor and how they plan for that element? Sounds like it’s a pretty difficult thing to plan for when talking about an island in the middle of the ocean.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so when we were on the island, we kind of got a look and feel for ourselves as to how unpredictable the weather is there. You know, it was really hot and sunny on one part of the island, then it was cold and breezy on one of the island. Sometimes the fog comes in on the shore. I mean, the island has a pretty, you know, big elevation change.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>And even the best modeling we have available to help understand the weather, can’t always predict with total certainty exactly when the wind’s gonna start or when it might shift or what specific direction it’ll come from.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Coming up, why rangers say this burn was a success and what they learned. By the way, if you support the work that we do here at KQED, consider becoming a sustaining KQED member, which you can do at donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Okay, so they’ve got this whole plan, they’re looking at the weather, they pick a day to do this, how does this actually go down? What did you learn about how a prescribed burn actually works on the ground?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>There’s broadcast burns and there’s pile burns. A lot of state parks do what’s called a pile burn where staff and volunteers build these piles of sticks and like debris, and then they burn these piles individually.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>And so that’s something, again, that’s happened intermittently through the 1990s, but it’s happened pretty much every year since 2022 out here. And it’s one of the many different tools in our toolbox that we’re using to help take care of this place and protect the historic buildings.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>When you have as much debris as you have in a place like Angel Island, you can’t feasibly burn what you need to burn by building these piles. It’s almost near impossible, you know, you have like shavings off of eucalyptus trees, you have debris from leaves, you have pine needles. And so when you need to burn a larger area of land, that’s when you do a broadcast burn.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/manzanita-charscape_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-1-4d3605ed-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12104827\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/manzanita-charscape_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-1-4d3605ed-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/manzanita-charscape_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-1-4d3605ed-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/manzanita-charscape_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-1-4d3605ed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/manzanita-charscape_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-1-4d3605ed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/manzanita-charscape_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-1-4d3605ed-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The burn scars on Angel Island are visible after a series of prescribed burns \u003cem>(\u003cem>Daniella Garcia-\u003cem>Loos\u003c/em> Almeida,\u003c/em> Bay Nature)\u003c/em>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>And those cannot happen in the dead of winter when it’s raining, most simply because the fuels, all the dead plants that we are burning, can’t burn when they’re wet. And if we can get them to burn, the amount of smoke that’s gonna be generated is far greater.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And so these prescribed burns, which is what caused those plumes of smoke to float out across the Bay Area, those leave scars on the landscape. And as part of your reporting trip, you actually visited those scarred areas. What did that look like?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>The landscape was pretty charred. It’s kind of what you expect, it’s, you know, gray and white, there’s ash on the ground, piles of soot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>We’re standing right now in the middle of the area that we burned so looking out in most all directions you can see that black along the landscape. You can see areas that have concentrations of white ash again many of those were places where we had…\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-shoots-in-char_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-00e6bbdc-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12104831\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-shoots-in-char_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-00e6bbdc-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-shoots-in-char_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-00e6bbdc-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-shoots-in-char_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-00e6bbdc-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-shoots-in-char_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-00e6bbdc-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-shoots-in-char_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-00e6bbdc-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Even after the series of prescribed fires, an oak shoots up from the soil \u003cem>(\u003cem>Daniella Garcia-\u003cem>Loos\u003c/em> Almeida\u003c/em>, Bay Nature)\u003c/em>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong> But you also see some green. I mean, there was already buds of coast live oaks and dandelions starting to sprout up even just as recently as a week after that burn.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>As we look for solutions some of the best ones we can use are nature-based solutions and so when we lean into these nature- based solutions and we do our best to minimize the impacts to people then we’re really you know helping Mother Nature do her best work.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I guess it might look kind of concerning if you don’t really understand what you’re looking at, but did everything go as planned for the rangers that you talked to? Like, what did they say about that?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>I mean, logistically, it worked out pretty well, you know, they got everyone out there, they got all the fire engines out there. They burned about 140 acres out of the 260 they had planned over these two days. And the smoke seemed to be going the direction that they wanted it to go while they were burning.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>If we’re burning something, there’s going to be smoke and it’s going somewhere.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>A lot of people thought that the burning was still occurring when the smoke was traveling to them, but the burn kind of had wrapped up by like, the afternoon. And then the wind shifted, making it go east, hitting Oakland and the rest of the East Bay and traveling as far as San Jose.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>That’s one of the really challenging things and at the end of the day, even with all the climate modeling, all the forecasting, and a lot of really, really great minds, that was really the one part of this that we always knew wasn’t fully within our control.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>I think it definitely wasn’t intentional, you know, they never want smoke to go where it would hit people. But while they were burning, the winds were doing pretty much what they wanted them to.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>We were able to really put in a nice piece that not only met ecological objectives, but will protect the amazing, incredible history here.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>They called off the remaining burn day, you know, to sort of go back to talk to the Bay Area Air District, the Marin County Fire Department and Cal Fire, just to all sort of work together and figure out if there is a sort of better time in the future, that would be better to burn. But I think it was still overall a successful thing.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson:\u003c/strong> A lot of people who worked on this burn live in the Bay Area and while we love these habitats we all have family members who you know would be impacted by smoke maybe differently than I am. So we care greatly about that and we did hear their concerns and take them to heart. It does impact people. It can be negative. In some ways, but what happens if we don’t do it? What’s gonna be left for our children and grandchildren?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>It’s a good learning experience because this was the first broadcast burn that they had done since the 90s. So just to see what happened and they’re currently studying what’s happening from now until the spring and further on. They have wildlife cameras out seeing how the animals are reacting and they’ll definitely be looking to see, what happens after the first rain to see what species of plants come back and how the landscape itself is rebuilding.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And it sounds like they’re studying how to do this maybe a little bit better and in a way that doesn’t upset so many people. But it’s interesting, I think, Daniella, to hear your perspective of actually going to the island and talking with the people behind the burn who say this was sort of a success and that they did what they needed to do. On the other hand, you have all these people living on the other side of the water who are really upset. What do you make of the gap between those things?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I mean, I think also the state of California itself was kind of against prescribed burns for a really long time. I mean you really only saw this spike in prescribed burns after the 2020 fires. CalFire has so much more funding to be able to do these. California State Parks has more funding to do this. So you’re seeing a lot more of these. And I think most of them happen in places where you can’t see what’s going on, you know, they’re happening in like these heavily wooded state parks, they’re happening in like Big Basin State Park, Henry Cowell, and you know you have like these towering redwoods that kind of cover your view of the smoke.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>But that was not the case this time around.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What do you think then that it’s gonna take to get more people to understand that there is such a thing as a good fire? I mean, we’ve been through quite a bit in terms of wildfires here in California, and I think there’s so much trauma there. So I wonder as a reporter, what do you thing it will take to sort of shrink that gap between what the experts you talk to say is a really good thing and then people who are concerned when they see smoke in the air?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I mean, I think as a whole, we can all do our part to learn more about them. You know, we only see, oh, there’s this prescribed burn happening and not really much as to like, why, why it’s happening right now? What did the last one do? My main takeaway was just how logistically complex these things are. There’s really a lot just like talking about the safety of the firefighters, the safety of the people on the island, the safety of people in the Bay Area, there’s just so much more that goes into it than I previously thought.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Daniella, thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us on the show. I really appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Thank you so much, too.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida, a reporter with Bay Nature. We’re going to leave you a link to Daniella’s reporting on Angel Island for Bay Nature in our show notes. Thanks as well to KQED’s Danielle Venton for the tape that you heard at the top of this episode. This episode was cut down and edited by me, Gabriela was the field producer of this. She also scored it and added all the tape. Our editor was Pauline Bartolone. The Bay is made every week by me and Gabriela Glueck. The rest of the podcast team includes Jen Chien, Katie Springer, Maha Sanad. Ethan Toven-Lindsey.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>If you want to get in touch with us here at The Bay, feel free to send us an email. We’re at thebay@kqed.org. The Bay is a production of listeners supported KQED in San Francisco. Support for The Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Thanks so much for listening to The Bay. We’ll talk to you next week.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In September, prescribed burns on Angel Island sent smoke and at-times dangerous air quality to residents around the Bay Area. While Air District officials want to improve controlled burns on the island, environmental managers say the recent burn was a win. Today, Bay Nature reporter Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida takes us on a journey to Angel Island to see the burn area through the eyes of the environmental stewards behind it.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. So back in September, I was taking the ferry into San Francisco when the familiar smell of fire started to fill the boat.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. So back in September, I was taking the ferry into San Francisco when the familiar smell of fire started to fill the boat.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>News Tape: \u003c/strong>Smoke here in the Bay Area, but where was it from? Well, a prescribed burn right here on Angel Island. It sent out a tremendous amount of smoke. I’ve never seen so much smoke from a prescribed…\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>News Tape: \u003c/strong>Smoke here in the Bay Area, but where was it from? Well, a prescribed burn right here on Angel Island. It sent out a tremendous amount of smoke. I’ve never seen so much smoke from a prescribed…\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Angel Island was on fire and the haze outside of the Ferry window was almost blinding. Over the course of a few hours, the smoke had wafted into the East Bay and San Francisco and even as far as San Jose, sometimes at unhealthy levels.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Angel Island was on fire and the haze outside of the Ferry window was almost blinding. Over the course of a few hours, the smoke had wafted into the East Bay and San Francisco and even as far as San Jose, sometimes at unhealthy levels.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniel Lurie: \u003c/strong>Ooh, it is actually very noticeable downtown right now. We’re getting a lot of calls and I understand why these. I also smell the smoke and air. If you have health issues, underlying health concerns, there is a good amount of smoke in there. So take care of yourselves, stay indoors if you need to. And we’ll keep you posted if anything changes.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniel Lurie: \u003c/strong>Ooh, it is actually very noticeable downtown right now. We’re getting a lot of calls and I understand why these. I also smell the smoke and air. If you have health issues, underlying health concerns, there is a good amount of smoke in there. So take care of yourselves, stay indoors if you need to. And we’ll keep you posted if anything changes.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong> While it was easy to mistake this for an emergency, the burning on Angel Island was actually intentional. These planned fires, which help clear up debris, are one of the state’s best tools for preventing bigger, more catastrophic wildfires. The controlled fires were halted because of the complaints, but the island’s caretakers say It was a huge win for the island’s wild landscapes.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong> While it was easy to mistake this for an emergency, the burning on Angel Island was actually intentional. These planned fires, which help clear up debris, are one of the state’s best tools for preventing bigger, more catastrophic wildfires. The controlled fires were halted because of the complaints, but the island’s caretakers say It was a huge win for the island’s wild landscapes.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>Although right now we look around and we see the blacks surrounding us and we see what we might understand from our contemporary view of fire as destruction or devastation, what we’re really seeing is a natural process of renewal.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>Although right now we look around and we see the blacks surrounding us and we see what we might understand from our contemporary view of fire as destruction or devastation, what we’re really seeing is a natural process of renewal.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Today we’re going on a journey to Angel Island with Bay Nature reporter, Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida to understand the recent prescribed burns through the eyes of the environmental stewards behind it and why they say the benefits of this burn stand to outlast the smoke.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Even going back to Smokey the Bear, I think a lot of people in California are used to preventing fire at all costs. But even before we were here, cultural burning was an important way to steward the land. And I think we’re starting to see how we can use fire to also steward our land and prevent these catastrophic wildfires.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Even going back to Smokey the Bear, I think a lot of people in California are used to preventing fire at all costs. But even before we were here, cultural burning was an important way to steward the land. And I think we’re starting to see how we can use fire to also steward our land and prevent these catastrophic wildfires.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I know you actually went to Angel Island this month to kind of try and understand this burn a little bit better and peel back the curtain a little. Can you tell me a little more about what you were hoping to understand by going to Angel Island?\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of places miss out on the aftermath of a burn, especially a prescribed burn. So my goal was to get out there and look at the impacts on the island’s ecology, learn more about what will happen after the burn, what we’ll see after the rains and the winter, and just how it’ll change the island. So there’s only a couple ways to get there. And the best way to get there is through the SF ferry.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of places miss out on the aftermath of a burn, especially a prescribed burn. So my goal was to get out there and look at the impacts on the island’s ecology, learn more about what will happen after the burn, what we’ll see after the rains and the winter, and just how it’ll change the island. So there’s only a couple ways to get there. And the best way to get there is through the SF ferry.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scene tape: \u003c/strong>Welcome aboard Golden Gate Ferry. The United States Coast Guard requires all passengers to know the locations of lifejackets and muster stations on board….\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Okay, so you ride the ferry to Angel Island and then you get there. What is your plan? Like, what did you do next?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Okay, so you ride the ferry to Angel Island and then you get there. What is your plan? Like, what did you do next?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>The plan was to go out with two people that were there for both days of the burn. They were helping with the effort.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>The plan was to go out with two people that were there for both days of the burn. They were helping with the effort.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>My name is Sarah Gibson and I am our statewide burn boss at California State Parks.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>My name is Naftali Moed, I work for California State Parks Bay Area District and I lead our wildfire and forest resilience work here at the state parks in Marin, Sonoma and Napa counties.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>And they were there to take us on a hike of the most recently burned areas that they burned these past two days in September.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>And they were there to take us on a hike of the most recently burned areas that they burned these past two days in September.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>Do y’all need facilities or water or anything else before we head up the hill?\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>For people who actually haven’t been to Angel Island, can you like sort of paint a picture for me?\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah, Angel Island is the biggest island in the whole Bay Area. I had never been there before either. It certainly seemed a lot bigger than I expected when we got there and a lot more wooded than I expected.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>To your point, exactly what you will see as soon as you get off the boat is our amazing oak woodlands and also some forests that are dominated by Monterey pine trees…\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>To your point, exactly what you will see as soon as you get off the boat is our amazing oak woodlands and also some forests that are dominated by Monterey pine trees…\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>There’s hundreds of eucalyptus trees that were planted there by the military way back when.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>There’s hundreds of eucalyptus trees that were planted there by the military way back when.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>If you look closely you’ll get to start to see a lot of the animals that we have out here too. We just saw a coyote a few minutes ago, there’s many many deer.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>If you look closely you’ll get to start to see a lot of the animals that we have out here too. We just saw a coyote a few minutes ago, there’s many many deer.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>And I guess the other part that I didn’t expect was that the island is full of these historic buildings, including the Angel Island Immigration Station.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>And I guess the other part that I didn’t expect was that the island is full of these historic buildings, including the Angel Island Immigration Station.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>There’s so much beauty out here and so much history and on the wildfire side so much potential for something terrible to happen and we’ll talk a little bit about that too.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>There’s so much beauty out here and so much history and on the wildfire side so much potential for something terrible to happen and we’ll talk a little bit about that too.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so there is a lot on the island to protect and also a lot there that could potentially catch on fire. So tell me more about what they were trying to prevent from happening here.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so there is a lot on the island to protect and also a lot there that could potentially catch on fire. So tell me more about what they were trying to prevent from happening here.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>They were trying to prevent another catastrophic wildfire from happening. The last wildfire happened in 2008 called the Angel Fire, and it burned almost half of the island and they were so lucky that it didn’t get to any of the historic buildings. That fire started on a Sunday at like 8 p.m. at night and they had to find a way to get all of these fire trucks out there. What takes maybe a couple of minutes like here in Berkeley, took over a day to get just all the personnel out there. So they’re really trying to prevent something like that from happening.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>They were trying to prevent another catastrophic wildfire from happening. The last wildfire happened in 2008 called the Angel Fire, and it burned almost half of the island and they were so lucky that it didn’t get to any of the historic buildings. That fire started on a Sunday at like 8 p.m. at night and they had to find a way to get all of these fire trucks out there. What takes maybe a couple of minutes like here in Berkeley, took over a day to get just all the personnel out there. So they’re really trying to prevent something like that from happening.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>Again, once a large fire is established on the island, it’s incredibly difficult to manage. And that’s, I think, one of the hardest things for us to convey to the public, is the difficulty and potentially the harm, not just to the island and the structures and the ecology out here, but also to the Bay Area community by and large, from the volume of smoke that’s produced during a significant or catastrophic wildfire.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>Again, once a large fire is established on the island, it’s incredibly difficult to manage. And that’s, I think, one of the hardest things for us to convey to the public, is the difficulty and potentially the harm, not just to the island and the structures and the ecology out here, but also to the Bay Area community by and large, from the volume of smoke that’s produced during a significant or catastrophic wildfire.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So fighting a fire there is, it sounds like, a logistical challenge, but as I understand it so is planning for a prescribed burn. Tell me about that planning process.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So fighting a fire there is, it sounds like, a logistical challenge, but as I understand it so is planning for a prescribed burn. Tell me about that planning process.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I mean to me it seems like a logistical nightmare.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I mean to me it seems like a logistical nightmare.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>It takes years to get to implementation day.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>It takes years to get to implementation day.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>They usually start these fires really early in the morning, as early as they can. They have to get seven fire engines out there on a boat. The boat can only carry one engine at a time, takes at least half an hour to get there. You also have to get all these dozens of firefighters, all the staff. Then to pick a day, they have to look at weather models. They have to look at the wind.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>They usually start these fires really early in the morning, as early as they can. They have to get seven fire engines out there on a boat. The boat can only carry one engine at a time, takes at least half an hour to get there. You also have to get all these dozens of firefighters, all the staff. Then to pick a day, they have to look at weather models. They have to look at the wind.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>It’s just like when you’re flying an airplane. You have a checklist to go through, getting permission from the agency to burn, notifying the dispatch centers who would get 911 calls. And when we get that go, we go to what’s called a test fire. And in that test fire, the first thing we actually look for is the smoke.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>It’s just like when you’re flying an airplane. You have a checklist to go through, getting permission from the agency to burn, notifying the dispatch centers who would get 911 calls. And when we get that go, we go to what’s called a test fire. And in that test fire, the first thing we actually look for is the smoke.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>they want the fire and the smoke to go straight up. If it goes straight up, it’ll start to blend with the air in the atmosphere.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>they want the fire and the smoke to go straight up. If it goes straight up, it’ll start to blend with the air in the atmosphere.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>We’re checking to make sure that fire is quote-unquote behaving the way that we want in that test fire.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>We’re checking to make sure that fire is quote-unquote behaving the way that we want in that test fire.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>All of this to prevent smoke from reaching all the seven million people that live around here. So really they have to be looking at these wind models and even after all this modeling, talking to the National Weather Service, it can still change.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>All of this to prevent smoke from reaching all the seven million people that live around here. So really they have to be looking at these wind models and even after all this modeling, talking to the National Weather Service, it can still change.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>See all the fog is rolling in? You may have also noticed the wind picked up as we rounded the corner. One of the many, many challenges that we have certainly burning, but really doing anything out here on Angel Island is navigating the weather.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>See all the fog is rolling in? You may have also noticed the wind picked up as we rounded the corner. One of the many, many challenges that we have certainly burning, but really doing anything out here on Angel Island is navigating the weather.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Can you actually talk a little bit more about the weather factor and how they plan for that element? Sounds like it’s a pretty difficult thing to plan for when talking about an island in the middle of the ocean.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so when we were on the island, we kind of got a look and feel for ourselves as to how unpredictable the weather is there. You know, it was really hot and sunny on one part of the island, then it was cold and breezy on one of the island. Sometimes the fog comes in on the shore. I mean, the island has a pretty, you know, big elevation change.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so when we were on the island, we kind of got a look and feel for ourselves as to how unpredictable the weather is there. You know, it was really hot and sunny on one part of the island, then it was cold and breezy on one of the island. Sometimes the fog comes in on the shore. I mean, the island has a pretty, you know, big elevation change.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>And even the best modeling we have available to help understand the weather, can’t always predict with total certainty exactly when the wind’s gonna start or when it might shift or what specific direction it’ll come from.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>And even the best modeling we have available to help understand the weather, can’t always predict with total certainty exactly when the wind’s gonna start or when it might shift or what specific direction it’ll come from.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Coming up, why rangers say this burn was a success and what they learned. By the way, if you support the work that we do here at KQED, consider becoming a sustaining KQED member, which you can do at donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Coming up, why rangers say this burn was a success and what they learned. By the way, if you support the work that we do here at KQED, consider becoming a sustaining KQED member, which you can do at donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Okay, so they’ve got this whole plan, they’re looking at the weather, they pick a day to do this, how does this actually go down? What did you learn about how a prescribed burn actually works on the ground?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Okay, so they’ve got this whole plan, they’re looking at the weather, they pick a day to do this, how does this actually go down? What did you learn about how a prescribed burn actually works on the ground?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>There’s broadcast burns and there’s pile burns. A lot of state parks do what’s called a pile burn where staff and volunteers build these piles of sticks and like debris, and then they burn these piles individually.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>There’s broadcast burns and there’s pile burns. A lot of state parks do what’s called a pile burn where staff and volunteers build these piles of sticks and like debris, and then they burn these piles individually.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>And so that’s something, again, that’s happened intermittently through the 1990s, but it’s happened pretty much every year since 2022 out here. And it’s one of the many different tools in our toolbox that we’re using to help take care of this place and protect the historic buildings.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>And so that’s something, again, that’s happened intermittently through the 1990s, but it’s happened pretty much every year since 2022 out here. And it’s one of the many different tools in our toolbox that we’re using to help take care of this place and protect the historic buildings.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>When you have as much debris as you have in a place like Angel Island, you can’t feasibly burn what you need to burn by building these piles. It’s almost near impossible, you know, you have like shavings off of eucalyptus trees, you have debris from leaves, you have pine needles. And so when you need to burn a larger area of land, that’s when you do a broadcast burn.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>When you have as much debris as you have in a place like Angel Island, you can’t feasibly burn what you need to burn by building these piles. It’s almost near impossible, you know, you have like shavings off of eucalyptus trees, you have debris from leaves, you have pine needles. And so when you need to burn a larger area of land, that’s when you do a broadcast burn.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>And those cannot happen in the dead of winter when it’s raining, most simply because the fuels, all the dead plants that we are burning, can’t burn when they’re wet. And if we can get them to burn, the amount of smoke that’s gonna be generated is far greater.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>And those cannot happen in the dead of winter when it’s raining, most simply because the fuels, all the dead plants that we are burning, can’t burn when they’re wet. And if we can get them to burn, the amount of smoke that’s gonna be generated is far greater.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And so these prescribed burns, which is what caused those plumes of smoke to float out across the Bay Area, those leave scars on the landscape. And as part of your reporting trip, you actually visited those scarred areas. What did that look like?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And so these prescribed burns, which is what caused those plumes of smoke to float out across the Bay Area, those leave scars on the landscape. And as part of your reporting trip, you actually visited those scarred areas. What did that look like?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>The landscape was pretty charred. It’s kind of what you expect, it’s, you know, gray and white, there’s ash on the ground, piles of soot.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>The landscape was pretty charred. It’s kind of what you expect, it’s, you know, gray and white, there’s ash on the ground, piles of soot.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>We’re standing right now in the middle of the area that we burned so looking out in most all directions you can see that black along the landscape. You can see areas that have concentrations of white ash again many of those were places where we had…\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>We’re standing right now in the middle of the area that we burned so looking out in most all directions you can see that black along the landscape. You can see areas that have concentrations of white ash again many of those were places where we had…\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-shoots-in-char_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-00e6bbdc-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12104831\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-shoots-in-char_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-00e6bbdc-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-shoots-in-char_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-00e6bbdc-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-shoots-in-char_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-00e6bbdc-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-shoots-in-char_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-00e6bbdc-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-shoots-in-char_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-00e6bbdc-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Even after the series of prescribed fires, an oak shoots up from the soil \u003cem>(\u003cem>Daniella Garcia-\u003cem>Loos\u003c/em> Almeida\u003c/em>, Bay Nature)\u003c/em>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-shoots-in-char_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-00e6bbdc-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12104831\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Even after the series of prescribed fires, an oak shoots up from the soil \u003cem>(\u003cem>Daniella Garcia-\u003cem>Loos\u003c/em> Almeida\u003c/em>, Bay Nature)\u003c/em>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong> But you also see some green. I mean, there was already buds of coast live oaks and dandelions starting to sprout up even just as recently as a week after that burn.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong> But you also see some green. I mean, there was already buds of coast live oaks and dandelions starting to sprout up even just as recently as a week after that burn.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>As we look for solutions some of the best ones we can use are nature-based solutions and so when we lean into these nature- based solutions and we do our best to minimize the impacts to people then we’re really you know helping Mother Nature do her best work.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>As we look for solutions some of the best ones we can use are nature-based solutions and so when we lean into these nature- based solutions and we do our best to minimize the impacts to people then we’re really you know helping Mother Nature do her best work.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I guess it might look kind of concerning if you don’t really understand what you’re looking at, but did everything go as planned for the rangers that you talked to? Like, what did they say about that?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I guess it might look kind of concerning if you don’t really understand what you’re looking at, but did everything go as planned for the rangers that you talked to? Like, what did they say about that?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>I mean, logistically, it worked out pretty well, you know, they got everyone out there, they got all the fire engines out there. They burned about 140 acres out of the 260 they had planned over these two days. And the smoke seemed to be going the direction that they wanted it to go while they were burning.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>I mean, logistically, it worked out pretty well, you know, they got everyone out there, they got all the fire engines out there. They burned about 140 acres out of the 260 they had planned over these two days. And the smoke seemed to be going the direction that they wanted it to go while they were burning.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>If we’re burning something, there’s going to be smoke and it’s going somewhere.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>If we’re burning something, there’s going to be smoke and it’s going somewhere.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>A lot of people thought that the burning was still occurring when the smoke was traveling to them, but the burn kind of had wrapped up by like, the afternoon. And then the wind shifted, making it go east, hitting Oakland and the rest of the East Bay and traveling as far as San Jose.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>A lot of people thought that the burning was still occurring when the smoke was traveling to them, but the burn kind of had wrapped up by like, the afternoon. And then the wind shifted, making it go east, hitting Oakland and the rest of the East Bay and traveling as far as San Jose.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>That’s one of the really challenging things and at the end of the day, even with all the climate modeling, all the forecasting, and a lot of really, really great minds, that was really the one part of this that we always knew wasn’t fully within our control.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>That’s one of the really challenging things and at the end of the day, even with all the climate modeling, all the forecasting, and a lot of really, really great minds, that was really the one part of this that we always knew wasn’t fully within our control.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>I think it definitely wasn’t intentional, you know, they never want smoke to go where it would hit people. But while they were burning, the winds were doing pretty much what they wanted them to.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>I think it definitely wasn’t intentional, you know, they never want smoke to go where it would hit people. But while they were burning, the winds were doing pretty much what they wanted them to.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>We were able to really put in a nice piece that not only met ecological objectives, but will protect the amazing, incredible history here.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>We were able to really put in a nice piece that not only met ecological objectives, but will protect the amazing, incredible history here.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>They called off the remaining burn day, you know, to sort of go back to talk to the Bay Area Air District, the Marin County Fire Department and Cal Fire, just to all sort of work together and figure out if there is a sort of better time in the future, that would be better to burn. But I think it was still overall a successful thing.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>They called off the remaining burn day, you know, to sort of go back to talk to the Bay Area Air District, the Marin County Fire Department and Cal Fire, just to all sort of work together and figure out if there is a sort of better time in the future, that would be better to burn. But I think it was still overall a successful thing.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson:\u003c/strong> A lot of people who worked on this burn live in the Bay Area and while we love these habitats we all have family members who you know would be impacted by smoke maybe differently than I am. So we care greatly about that and we did hear their concerns and take them to heart. It does impact people. It can be negative. In some ways, but what happens if we don’t do it? What’s gonna be left for our children and grandchildren?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson:\u003c/strong> A lot of people who worked on this burn live in the Bay Area and while we love these habitats we all have family members who you know would be impacted by smoke maybe differently than I am. So we care greatly about that and we did hear their concerns and take them to heart. It does impact people. It can be negative. In some ways, but what happens if we don’t do it? What’s gonna be left for our children and grandchildren?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>It’s a good learning experience because this was the first broadcast burn that they had done since the 90s. So just to see what happened and they’re currently studying what’s happening from now until the spring and further on. They have wildlife cameras out seeing how the animals are reacting and they’ll definitely be looking to see, what happens after the first rain to see what species of plants come back and how the landscape itself is rebuilding.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>It’s a good learning experience because this was the first broadcast burn that they had done since the 90s. So just to see what happened and they’re currently studying what’s happening from now until the spring and further on. They have wildlife cameras out seeing how the animals are reacting and they’ll definitely be looking to see, what happens after the first rain to see what species of plants come back and how the landscape itself is rebuilding.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And it sounds like they’re studying how to do this maybe a little bit better and in a way that doesn’t upset so many people. But it’s interesting, I think, Daniella, to hear your perspective of actually going to the island and talking with the people behind the burn who say this was sort of a success and that they did what they needed to do. On the other hand, you have all these people living on the other side of the water who are really upset. What do you make of the gap between those things?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And it sounds like they’re studying how to do this maybe a little bit better and in a way that doesn’t upset so many people. But it’s interesting, I think, Daniella, to hear your perspective of actually going to the island and talking with the people behind the burn who say this was sort of a success and that they did what they needed to do. On the other hand, you have all these people living on the other side of the water who are really upset. What do you make of the gap between those things?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I mean, I think also the state of California itself was kind of against prescribed burns for a really long time. I mean you really only saw this spike in prescribed burns after the 2020 fires. CalFire has so much more funding to be able to do these. California State Parks has more funding to do this. So you’re seeing a lot more of these. And I think most of them happen in places where you can’t see what’s going on, you know, they’re happening in like these heavily wooded state parks, they’re happening in like Big Basin State Park, Henry Cowell, and you know you have like these towering redwoods that kind of cover your view of the smoke.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I mean, I think also the state of California itself was kind of against prescribed burns for a really long time. I mean you really only saw this spike in prescribed burns after the 2020 fires. CalFire has so much more funding to be able to do these. California State Parks has more funding to do this. So you’re seeing a lot more of these. And I think most of them happen in places where you can’t see what’s going on, you know, they’re happening in like these heavily wooded state parks, they’re happening in like Big Basin State Park, Henry Cowell, and you know you have like these towering redwoods that kind of cover your view of the smoke.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>But that was not the case this time around.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>But that was not the case this time around.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What do you think then that it’s gonna take to get more people to understand that there is such a thing as a good fire? I mean, we’ve been through quite a bit in terms of wildfires here in California, and I think there’s so much trauma there. So I wonder as a reporter, what do you thing it will take to sort of shrink that gap between what the experts you talk to say is a really good thing and then people who are concerned when they see smoke in the air?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What do you think then that it’s gonna take to get more people to understand that there is such a thing as a good fire? I mean, we’ve been through quite a bit in terms of wildfires here in California, and I think there’s so much trauma there. So I wonder as a reporter, what do you thing it will take to sort of shrink that gap between what the experts you talk to say is a really good thing and then people who are concerned when they see smoke in the air?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I mean, I think as a whole, we can all do our part to learn more about them. You know, we only see, oh, there’s this prescribed burn happening and not really much as to like, why, why it’s happening right now? What did the last one do? My main takeaway was just how logistically complex these things are. There’s really a lot just like talking about the safety of the firefighters, the safety of the people on the island, the safety of people in the Bay Area, there’s just so much more that goes into it than I previously thought.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Daniella, thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us on the show. I really appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Daniella, thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us on the show. I really appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Thank you so much, too.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida, a reporter with Bay Nature. We’re going to leave you a link to Daniella’s reporting on Angel Island for Bay Nature in our show notes. Thanks as well to KQED’s Danielle Venton for the tape that you heard at the top of this episode. This episode was cut down and edited by me, Gabriela was the field producer of this. She also scored it and added all the tape. Our editor was Pauline Bartolone. The Bay is made every week by me and Gabriela Glueck. The rest of the podcast team includes Jen Chien, Katie Springer, Maha Sanad. Ethan Toven-Lindsey.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida, a reporter with Bay Nature. We’re going to leave you a link to Daniella’s reporting on Angel Island for Bay Nature in our show notes. Thanks as well to KQED’s Danielle Venton for the tape that you heard at the top of this episode. This episode was cut down and edited by me, Gabriela was the field producer of this. She also scored it and added all the tape. Our editor was Pauline Bartolone. The Bay is made every week by me and Gabriela Glueck. The rest of the podcast team includes Jen Chien, Katie Springer, Maha Sanad. Ethan Toven-Lindsey.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>If you want to get in touch with us here at The Bay, feel free to send us an email. We’re at thebay@kqed.org. The Bay is a production of listeners supported KQED in San Francisco. Support for The Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Thanks so much for listening to The Bay. We’ll talk to you next week.\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "Prescribed burns on Angel Island sent smoke and at-times dangerous air quality to residents around the Bay Area. Still, environmental managers say the operation was a win.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>In September, prescribed burns on Angel Island sent smoke and at-times dangerous air quality to residents around the Bay Area. While Air District officials want to improve controlled burns on the island, environmental managers say the recent burn was a win. Today, Bay Nature reporter Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida takes us on a journey to Angel Island to see the burn area through the eyes of the environmental stewards behind it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://baynature.org/author/daniella/\">\u003cu>Smoke Aside, the Angel Island Fire Was a Win for the Island’s Wild Landscapes \u003c/u>\u003c/a>(Bay Nature)\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. So back in September, I was taking the ferry into San Francisco when the familiar smell of fire started to fill the boat.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>News Tape: \u003c/strong>Smoke here in the Bay Area, but where was it from? Well, a prescribed burn right here on Angel Island. It sent out a tremendous amount of smoke. I’ve never seen so much smoke from a prescribed…\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Angel Island was on fire and the haze outside of the Ferry window was almost blinding. Over the course of a few hours, the smoke had wafted into the East Bay and San Francisco and even as far as San Jose, sometimes at unhealthy levels.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniel Lurie: \u003c/strong>Ooh, it is actually very noticeable downtown right now. We’re getting a lot of calls and I understand why these. I also smell the smoke and air. If you have health issues, underlying health concerns, there is a good amount of smoke in there. So take care of yourselves, stay indoors if you need to. And we’ll keep you posted if anything changes.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong> While it was easy to mistake this for an emergency, the burning on Angel Island was actually intentional. These planned fires, which help clear up debris, are one of the state’s best tools for preventing bigger, more catastrophic wildfires. The controlled fires were halted because of the complaints, but the island’s caretakers say It was a huge win for the island’s wild landscapes.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>Although right now we look around and we see the blacks surrounding us and we see what we might understand from our contemporary view of fire as destruction or devastation, what we’re really seeing is a natural process of renewal.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Today we’re going on a journey to Angel Island with Bay Nature reporter, Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida to understand the recent prescribed burns through the eyes of the environmental stewards behind it and why they say the benefits of this burn stand to outlast the smoke.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Even going back to Smokey the Bear, I think a lot of people in California are used to preventing fire at all costs. But even before we were here, cultural burning was an important way to steward the land. And I think we’re starting to see how we can use fire to also steward our land and prevent these catastrophic wildfires.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I know you actually went to Angel Island this month to kind of try and understand this burn a little bit better and peel back the curtain a little. Can you tell me a little more about what you were hoping to understand by going to Angel Island?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of places miss out on the aftermath of a burn, especially a prescribed burn. So my goal was to get out there and look at the impacts on the island’s ecology, learn more about what will happen after the burn, what we’ll see after the rains and the winter, and just how it’ll change the island. So there’s only a couple ways to get there. And the best way to get there is through the SF ferry.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scene tape: \u003c/strong>Welcome aboard Golden Gate Ferry. The United States Coast Guard requires all passengers to know the locations of lifejackets and muster stations on board….\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Okay, so you ride the ferry to Angel Island and then you get there. What is your plan? Like, what did you do next?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>The plan was to go out with two people that were there for both days of the burn. They were helping with the effort.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>My name is Sarah Gibson and I am our statewide burn boss at California State Parks.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>My name is Naftali Moed, I work for California State Parks Bay Area District and I lead our wildfire and forest resilience work here at the state parks in Marin, Sonoma and Napa counties.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>And they were there to take us on a hike of the most recently burned areas that they burned these past two days in September.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-in-charscape_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-1-e275c6d5-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12104829\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-in-charscape_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-1-e275c6d5-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-in-charscape_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-1-e275c6d5-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-in-charscape_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-1-e275c6d5-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-in-charscape_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-1-e275c6d5-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-in-charscape_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-1-e275c6d5-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Charred grasses and shrubs after the prescribed burns \u003cem>(Daniella Garcia-\u003cem>Loos\u003c/em> Almeida, Bay Nature)\u003c/em>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>Do y’all need facilities or water or anything else before we head up the hill?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>For people who actually haven’t been to Angel Island, can you like sort of paint a picture for me?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah, Angel Island is the biggest island in the whole Bay Area. I had never been there before either. It certainly seemed a lot bigger than I expected when we got there and a lot more wooded than I expected.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>To your point, exactly what you will see as soon as you get off the boat is our amazing oak woodlands and also some forests that are dominated by Monterey pine trees…\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>There’s hundreds of eucalyptus trees that were planted there by the military way back when.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>If you look closely you’ll get to start to see a lot of the animals that we have out here too. We just saw a coyote a few minutes ago, there’s many many deer.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>And I guess the other part that I didn’t expect was that the island is full of these historic buildings, including the Angel Island Immigration Station.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>There’s so much beauty out here and so much history and on the wildfire side so much potential for something terrible to happen and we’ll talk a little bit about that too.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so there is a lot on the island to protect and also a lot there that could potentially catch on fire. So tell me more about what they were trying to prevent from happening here.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/9.8.2026-firefighters-on-holding_CalFire_Angel-Is.-Rx-burn-1-71ce54fd-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12104826\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/9.8.2026-firefighters-on-holding_CalFire_Angel-Is.-Rx-burn-1-71ce54fd-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/9.8.2026-firefighters-on-holding_CalFire_Angel-Is.-Rx-burn-1-71ce54fd-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/9.8.2026-firefighters-on-holding_CalFire_Angel-Is.-Rx-burn-1-71ce54fd-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/9.8.2026-firefighters-on-holding_CalFire_Angel-Is.-Rx-burn-1-71ce54fd-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/9.8.2026-firefighters-on-holding_CalFire_Angel-Is.-Rx-burn-1-71ce54fd-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Firefighters attend to the prescribed burn on Angel Island on September 8, 2026\u003cem> (CalFire)\u003c/em>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>They were trying to prevent another catastrophic wildfire from happening. The last wildfire happened in 2008 called the Angel Fire, and it burned almost half of the island and they were so lucky that it didn’t get to any of the historic buildings. That fire started on a Sunday at like 8 p.m. at night and they had to find a way to get all of these fire trucks out there. What takes maybe a couple of minutes like here in Berkeley, took over a day to get just all the personnel out there. So they’re really trying to prevent something like that from happening.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>Again, once a large fire is established on the island, it’s incredibly difficult to manage. And that’s, I think, one of the hardest things for us to convey to the public, is the difficulty and potentially the harm, not just to the island and the structures and the ecology out here, but also to the Bay Area community by and large, from the volume of smoke that’s produced during a significant or catastrophic wildfire.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So fighting a fire there is, it sounds like, a logistical challenge, but as I understand it so is planning for a prescribed burn. Tell me about that planning process.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I mean to me it seems like a logistical nightmare.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>It takes years to get to implementation day.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>They usually start these fires really early in the morning, as early as they can. They have to get seven fire engines out there on a boat. The boat can only carry one engine at a time, takes at least half an hour to get there. You also have to get all these dozens of firefighters, all the staff. Then to pick a day, they have to look at weather models. They have to look at the wind.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>It’s just like when you’re flying an airplane. You have a checklist to go through, getting permission from the agency to burn, notifying the dispatch centers who would get 911 calls. And when we get that go, we go to what’s called a test fire. And in that test fire, the first thing we actually look for is the smoke.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>they want the fire and the smoke to go straight up. If it goes straight up, it’ll start to blend with the air in the atmosphere.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>We’re checking to make sure that fire is quote-unquote behaving the way that we want in that test fire.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>All of this to prevent smoke from reaching all the seven million people that live around here. So really they have to be looking at these wind models and even after all this modeling, talking to the National Weather Service, it can still change.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>See all the fog is rolling in? You may have also noticed the wind picked up as we rounded the corner. One of the many, many challenges that we have certainly burning, but really doing anything out here on Angel Island is navigating the weather.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/gibson-n-moed-at-burn-site_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-a3524709-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12104828\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/gibson-n-moed-at-burn-site_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-a3524709-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/gibson-n-moed-at-burn-site_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-a3524709-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/gibson-n-moed-at-burn-site_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-a3524709-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/gibson-n-moed-at-burn-site_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-a3524709-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/gibson-n-moed-at-burn-site_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-a3524709-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Naftali Moed and Sarah Gibson examine the burn site \u003cem>(\u003cem>Daniella Garcia-\u003cem>Loos\u003c/em> Almeida\u003c/em>, Bay Nature)\u003c/em>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Can you actually talk a little bit more about the weather factor and how they plan for that element? Sounds like it’s a pretty difficult thing to plan for when talking about an island in the middle of the ocean.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so when we were on the island, we kind of got a look and feel for ourselves as to how unpredictable the weather is there. You know, it was really hot and sunny on one part of the island, then it was cold and breezy on one of the island. Sometimes the fog comes in on the shore. I mean, the island has a pretty, you know, big elevation change.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>And even the best modeling we have available to help understand the weather, can’t always predict with total certainty exactly when the wind’s gonna start or when it might shift or what specific direction it’ll come from.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Coming up, why rangers say this burn was a success and what they learned. By the way, if you support the work that we do here at KQED, consider becoming a sustaining KQED member, which you can do at donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Okay, so they’ve got this whole plan, they’re looking at the weather, they pick a day to do this, how does this actually go down? What did you learn about how a prescribed burn actually works on the ground?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>There’s broadcast burns and there’s pile burns. A lot of state parks do what’s called a pile burn where staff and volunteers build these piles of sticks and like debris, and then they burn these piles individually.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>And so that’s something, again, that’s happened intermittently through the 1990s, but it’s happened pretty much every year since 2022 out here. And it’s one of the many different tools in our toolbox that we’re using to help take care of this place and protect the historic buildings.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>When you have as much debris as you have in a place like Angel Island, you can’t feasibly burn what you need to burn by building these piles. It’s almost near impossible, you know, you have like shavings off of eucalyptus trees, you have debris from leaves, you have pine needles. And so when you need to burn a larger area of land, that’s when you do a broadcast burn.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/manzanita-charscape_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-1-4d3605ed-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12104827\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/manzanita-charscape_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-1-4d3605ed-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/manzanita-charscape_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-1-4d3605ed-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/manzanita-charscape_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-1-4d3605ed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/manzanita-charscape_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-1-4d3605ed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/manzanita-charscape_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-1-4d3605ed-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The burn scars on Angel Island are visible after a series of prescribed burns \u003cem>(\u003cem>Daniella Garcia-\u003cem>Loos\u003c/em> Almeida,\u003c/em> Bay Nature)\u003c/em>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>And those cannot happen in the dead of winter when it’s raining, most simply because the fuels, all the dead plants that we are burning, can’t burn when they’re wet. And if we can get them to burn, the amount of smoke that’s gonna be generated is far greater.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And so these prescribed burns, which is what caused those plumes of smoke to float out across the Bay Area, those leave scars on the landscape. And as part of your reporting trip, you actually visited those scarred areas. What did that look like?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>The landscape was pretty charred. It’s kind of what you expect, it’s, you know, gray and white, there’s ash on the ground, piles of soot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>We’re standing right now in the middle of the area that we burned so looking out in most all directions you can see that black along the landscape. You can see areas that have concentrations of white ash again many of those were places where we had…\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-shoots-in-char_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-00e6bbdc-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12104831\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-shoots-in-char_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-00e6bbdc-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-shoots-in-char_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-00e6bbdc-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-shoots-in-char_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-00e6bbdc-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-shoots-in-char_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-00e6bbdc-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/oak-shoots-in-char_DGA_Angel-Island-Rx-burn-00e6bbdc-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Even after the series of prescribed fires, an oak shoots up from the soil \u003cem>(\u003cem>Daniella Garcia-\u003cem>Loos\u003c/em> Almeida\u003c/em>, Bay Nature)\u003c/em>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong> But you also see some green. I mean, there was already buds of coast live oaks and dandelions starting to sprout up even just as recently as a week after that burn.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>As we look for solutions some of the best ones we can use are nature-based solutions and so when we lean into these nature- based solutions and we do our best to minimize the impacts to people then we’re really you know helping Mother Nature do her best work.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I guess it might look kind of concerning if you don’t really understand what you’re looking at, but did everything go as planned for the rangers that you talked to? Like, what did they say about that?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>I mean, logistically, it worked out pretty well, you know, they got everyone out there, they got all the fire engines out there. They burned about 140 acres out of the 260 they had planned over these two days. And the smoke seemed to be going the direction that they wanted it to go while they were burning.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>If we’re burning something, there’s going to be smoke and it’s going somewhere.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>A lot of people thought that the burning was still occurring when the smoke was traveling to them, but the burn kind of had wrapped up by like, the afternoon. And then the wind shifted, making it go east, hitting Oakland and the rest of the East Bay and traveling as far as San Jose.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naftali Moed: \u003c/strong>That’s one of the really challenging things and at the end of the day, even with all the climate modeling, all the forecasting, and a lot of really, really great minds, that was really the one part of this that we always knew wasn’t fully within our control.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>I think it definitely wasn’t intentional, you know, they never want smoke to go where it would hit people. But while they were burning, the winds were doing pretty much what they wanted them to.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson: \u003c/strong>We were able to really put in a nice piece that not only met ecological objectives, but will protect the amazing, incredible history here.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>They called off the remaining burn day, you know, to sort of go back to talk to the Bay Area Air District, the Marin County Fire Department and Cal Fire, just to all sort of work together and figure out if there is a sort of better time in the future, that would be better to burn. But I think it was still overall a successful thing.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sarah Gibson:\u003c/strong> A lot of people who worked on this burn live in the Bay Area and while we love these habitats we all have family members who you know would be impacted by smoke maybe differently than I am. So we care greatly about that and we did hear their concerns and take them to heart. It does impact people. It can be negative. In some ways, but what happens if we don’t do it? What’s gonna be left for our children and grandchildren?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>It’s a good learning experience because this was the first broadcast burn that they had done since the 90s. So just to see what happened and they’re currently studying what’s happening from now until the spring and further on. They have wildlife cameras out seeing how the animals are reacting and they’ll definitely be looking to see, what happens after the first rain to see what species of plants come back and how the landscape itself is rebuilding.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And it sounds like they’re studying how to do this maybe a little bit better and in a way that doesn’t upset so many people. But it’s interesting, I think, Daniella, to hear your perspective of actually going to the island and talking with the people behind the burn who say this was sort of a success and that they did what they needed to do. On the other hand, you have all these people living on the other side of the water who are really upset. What do you make of the gap between those things?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I mean, I think also the state of California itself was kind of against prescribed burns for a really long time. I mean you really only saw this spike in prescribed burns after the 2020 fires. CalFire has so much more funding to be able to do these. California State Parks has more funding to do this. So you’re seeing a lot more of these. And I think most of them happen in places where you can’t see what’s going on, you know, they’re happening in like these heavily wooded state parks, they’re happening in like Big Basin State Park, Henry Cowell, and you know you have like these towering redwoods that kind of cover your view of the smoke.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>But that was not the case this time around.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What do you think then that it’s gonna take to get more people to understand that there is such a thing as a good fire? I mean, we’ve been through quite a bit in terms of wildfires here in California, and I think there’s so much trauma there. So I wonder as a reporter, what do you thing it will take to sort of shrink that gap between what the experts you talk to say is a really good thing and then people who are concerned when they see smoke in the air?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I mean, I think as a whole, we can all do our part to learn more about them. You know, we only see, oh, there’s this prescribed burn happening and not really much as to like, why, why it’s happening right now? What did the last one do? My main takeaway was just how logistically complex these things are. There’s really a lot just like talking about the safety of the firefighters, the safety of the people on the island, the safety of people in the Bay Area, there’s just so much more that goes into it than I previously thought.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Daniella, thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us on the show. I really appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida: \u003c/strong>Thank you so much, too.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Daniella Garcia-Loos Almeida, a reporter with Bay Nature. We’re going to leave you a link to Daniella’s reporting on Angel Island for Bay Nature in our show notes. Thanks as well to KQED’s Danielle Venton for the tape that you heard at the top of this episode. This episode was cut down and edited by me, Gabriela was the field producer of this. She also scored it and added all the tape. Our editor was Pauline Bartolone. The Bay is made every week by me and Gabriela Glueck. The rest of the podcast team includes Jen Chien, Katie Springer, Maha Sanad. Ethan Toven-Lindsey.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>If you want to get in touch with us here at The Bay, feel free to send us an email. We’re at thebay@kqed.org. The Bay is a production of listeners supported KQED in San Francisco. Support for The Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Thanks so much for listening to The Bay. We’ll talk to you next week.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\n\u003cp>What do martial artists, mime performers, and a farmers market have in common? They all received millions of dollars from the state budget this past summer. The money was earmarked for them, set aside as part of a longstanding and opaque budget process that CalMatters’ reporter Stella Yu has spent a long time trying to understand.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/politics/2026/09/california-budget-pork-project-2026/\">How a gym, a farmers market and MMA fighters landed millions in Newsom’s last budget\u003c/a> (CalMatters)\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Transcript\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. Martial artists, a mime troupe, and a farmer’s market. These things don’t appear to have a lot in common, but there’s money set aside for all of them in the state budget that Governor Gavin Newsom signed this summer as part of a little-known budget process called earmarking.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Earmarks are this special pot of money in the state budget that gets quickly approved without much of a public debate or public notice.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>CalMatters reporter Stella Yu slogged through the new state budget to find out which projects got money through this annual and secretive process, one that raises concerns about transparency and equity.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>And even after earmarks are approved, it is hard for the public to find them out in hundreds of pages of budget bills, or find out who requested for them. It’s a very strenuous process.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We peel back the curtain on earmarks and discuss the Bay Area projects that got millions of dollars through this process. So yeah, I mean, we’re talking about this one part of this larger budget process that happens in the California legislature, maybe a part of the process that not a lot of people know about. And we’re talk about earmarks here. I mean what are earmarks exactly and how is it different from how money is usually doled out by the legislature?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Earmarks are almost a shortcut for some of the projects to get funding. How it works is that the state assembly and Senate leaders can set a spending cap for lawmakers. And lawmakers can submit a wish list in private of projects in their districts that they want funded. Because budget is this very fluid year-round process for lawmakers, in August, right before the session wraps, that is also an opportunity for them to tuck these projects into a budget amendment bill. It’s a very secretive process. The governor himself will also come up with a list of funding requests. Then it’s usually decided by the governor and the two legislative leaders on what gets funded. And lawmakers don’t put their names next to the projects they asked for. So you wouldn’t necessarily know who asked for them unless they start issuing press releases or attend ribbon cutting ceremonies and things like that to essentially take credit for what they asked for after.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What percentage of the overall state budget gets earmarked every year and how do they decide? Like, what is this pot of money?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu:\u003c/strong> It is a very small percentage compared to the size of the entire state budget. This year, for example, the state budget is about $300 billion, so it’s a lot of money. But the earmarks we’ve identified account for just $1.3 billion. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/strong>: And it’s still taxpayer money. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu:\u003c/strong> Totally.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I wanna talk about what exactly got earmarked this year in the California state budget. I mean, we’re talking about quite a bit of money. When we’re taking about the regions of California that really benefited from this earmarking process, where did most of these earmarks go?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Yeah. We did an analysis that broke it down by county. So Los Angeles was the biggest winner this year with at least $300 million in earmarks. So that’s about a quarter of the total. Other top winners are in the Bay Area. Alameda County got almost $180 million and San Francisco got $109 million. One of the more noteworthy counties was Santa Barbara. So this is Senate President pro Tempore Monique Limón’s home county. It has about 450,000 residents, but it received almost $73 million in earmarks. Just to give you an idea of how big this is, I mean, Tulare County in the Central Valley is very similar in size, but that county received just $200,000 in earmarks. So that’s $200,000 compared to 73 million. There’s no rationale or a method of calculation that dictates how the money should be spent.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So you mentioned Stella the Bay Area was a big winner in this year’s earmark process. Who exactly is getting the money and for what kinds of things in the Bay area?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>So the biggest ticket item in the Bay Area was the $125 million to buy the Golden Gate Fields. This is the now defunct horse racetrack that is straddling Albany and Berkeley. And so originally a nonprofit and the regional park district in the East Bay said that they were going to raise $175 million to turn this space into a public park. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker 1:\u003c/strong> Now’s the time for us to imagine something different and Colgate fields.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker 2: \u003c/strong>Berkeley Mayor Jesse Aragon says this is a big opportunity to develop one of the most prized properties in the entire Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Then in May Newsom came out and said, you know, we’re just proposing that the state would foot most of the bill and he wanted in the final budget. There’s some other noteworthy Bay Area projects. There’s a total of $38 million that went to arts, museums, dance groups in San Francisco alone. You have $5 million to revamp the Castro Theater. You have three million dollars to a dance group whose founder was inducted into the Hall of Fame by the Newsom’s. You have almost $3 million to the Center for The Art of Translation, $400,000 to the San Francisco Mime Troupe, and there is another dozen or so dance companies or opera houses that each got half a million to a million dollars in state funding. And finally, just to name a few others, the UCSF Dyslexia Center got $8.4 million for dyslexia research. And this might be one that’s near and dear to Newsom’s heart, right? Because of his personal battle with dyslexia. $10 million went to San Francisco for road paving in different areas. And another $7.4 billion went to landscaping and irrigation at certain traffic medians. This is noteworthy because it’s very specific. You know, this is the type of funding that usually comes out of city or county budget for public works. So it’s unclear why the state needed to step in and why specifically for San Francisco. What my analysis shows is that no other county received this type of funding, you know, in such a specific way this year.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>All of those projects sound very random to me. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu\u003c/strong>: Yeah, that is one way to put it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We’ll have more with CalMatters’ Stella Yu right after this break. By the way, if you appreciate the local deep dives that we bring you here on the Bay, consider becoming a sustaining KQED member. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back. Stella, my last few questions for you here. It seems like there were some pretty clear winners in this year’s earmark process, but who would you say loses?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>In our analysis, there is a total of 17 counties that did not appear to get any earmark funding at all. Most of them are more remote counties in lower population areas, right, and mostly represented by Republicans. So it could be that there’s just fewer people there, or it could that they are represented by Republicans who are in the super minority that they just don’t have enough power to push through these funding requests. So in terms of winners and losers, definitely the Republicans are not taking as much home through the earmark process, as it always has been the case.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>It sounds like there is not a very satisfying answer that we’re gonna get today about why these projects were chosen, but what might contribute to why these projects get chosen in the earmark process? Is it, in some cases, because the governor is interested in a particular project or a certain legislator just has maybe more power or influence?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Yeah, that’s a great question. Because there is no definition on when the process should happen, right, or how much money, exactly, should you take from the state budget to distribute to districts, it is really up to the leaders in the legislature and the governor. I actually talked to Senator Dave Cortese, who is a Democrat from San Jose. And he did give me a little glimpse into how he approaches his asks. He told me that he tends to ask for funding for someone he knows, right? Some group whose work he’s very familiar with. And his rationale is, you know, look, I’m not going to give billions of dollars, state dollars to a nonprofit whose work I don’t know. I mean, that is putting my reputation at risk as well. So that kind of gives you an idea of what types of work, or what types of groups these lawmakers tend to gravitate toward, but he’s also just one of 120 lawmakers. For some of these projects, the reason is a mystery. We can see the apparent ties between certain lawmakers and the projects, but we can’t really prove that these projects are funded because this specific lawmaker requested them. I mean, those are the types of questions that we may not get answered. I have someone in the nonprofit world quoted in the story saying, if that is how nonprofits get money now, why do we waste this time and energy to go through the normal grant application process when we can just spend the money lobbying lawmakers to please let us jump through fewer hoops?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah, and it raises the question for me of like, why do we have this process at all? I mean, it seems like it’s been the norm in California. And even as you mentioned, outside of the California legislature, I mean at the federal level as well, for a long time.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>So the rationale is if you go through the normal grant application process, the state agency that’s distributing the money might not understand the gravity of this project. A lot of those projects have perhaps not gotten the money twice in a row, three times in a row. But the rationale, is the local lawmaker might understand that need better. And so through this process, they can champion it and perhaps this would get to the much quicker. So that is what the proponents say about the merits of this process.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah, and I guess if you’re a state legislator who wants to bring money home to your district, this is one way you see to do it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Totally. Yeah, and you know, there is merit in talking about this right now because the election is around the corner, right and lawmakers who got earmarks this year will want to tout those achievements to win reelections Especially if they’re in a tough race if they have something they can point to as hey voters, look at this I brought this home then they can prove to their constituents that they did something for the district. So yeah, so I’m glad we’re talking about it now because voters who are interested in in that aspect of it could look into what exactly their representatives brought home and and that might influence how they vote.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Stella, thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us. I really appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Of course, yeah, thanks so much for bringing me on to talk about it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Stella Yu, a politics and campaign reporter for CalMatters. This conversation was cut down and edited by me, Pauline Bartolone scored this episode, we got extra production support from Gabriela Glueck, music courtesy of APM. If you want to get in touch with us here at The Bay, feel free to send us an email or at thebay.kqed.org. The Bay is a production of listener-supported KQED. You can help power our show by becoming a KQED member. Just go to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. Support for The Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Thanks so much for listening. Talk to you next time.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>What do martial artists, mime performers, and a farmers market have in common? They all received millions of dollars from the state budget this past summer. The money was earmarked for them, set aside as part of a longstanding and opaque budget process that CalMatters’ reporter Stella Yu has spent a long time trying to understand.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. Martial artists, a mime troupe, and a farmer’s market. These things don’t appear to have a lot in common, but there’s money set aside for all of them in the state budget that Governor Gavin Newsom signed this summer as part of a little-known budget process called earmarking.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. Martial artists, a mime troupe, and a farmer’s market. These things don’t appear to have a lot in common, but there’s money set aside for all of them in the state budget that Governor Gavin Newsom signed this summer as part of a little-known budget process called earmarking.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Earmarks are this special pot of money in the state budget that gets quickly approved without much of a public debate or public notice.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Earmarks are this special pot of money in the state budget that gets quickly approved without much of a public debate or public notice.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>CalMatters reporter Stella Yu slogged through the new state budget to find out which projects got money through this annual and secretive process, one that raises concerns about transparency and equity.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>CalMatters reporter Stella Yu slogged through the new state budget to find out which projects got money through this annual and secretive process, one that raises concerns about transparency and equity.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>And even after earmarks are approved, it is hard for the public to find them out in hundreds of pages of budget bills, or find out who requested for them. It’s a very strenuous process.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>And even after earmarks are approved, it is hard for the public to find them out in hundreds of pages of budget bills, or find out who requested for them. It’s a very strenuous process.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We peel back the curtain on earmarks and discuss the Bay Area projects that got millions of dollars through this process. So yeah, I mean, we’re talking about this one part of this larger budget process that happens in the California legislature, maybe a part of the process that not a lot of people know about. And we’re talk about earmarks here. I mean what are earmarks exactly and how is it different from how money is usually doled out by the legislature?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We peel back the curtain on earmarks and discuss the Bay Area projects that got millions of dollars through this process. So yeah, I mean, we’re talking about this one part of this larger budget process that happens in the California legislature, maybe a part of the process that not a lot of people know about. And we’re talk about earmarks here. I mean what are earmarks exactly and how is it different from how money is usually doled out by the legislature?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Earmarks are almost a shortcut for some of the projects to get funding. How it works is that the state assembly and Senate leaders can set a spending cap for lawmakers. And lawmakers can submit a wish list in private of projects in their districts that they want funded. Because budget is this very fluid year-round process for lawmakers, in August, right before the session wraps, that is also an opportunity for them to tuck these projects into a budget amendment bill. It’s a very secretive process. The governor himself will also come up with a list of funding requests. Then it’s usually decided by the governor and the two legislative leaders on what gets funded. And lawmakers don’t put their names next to the projects they asked for. So you wouldn’t necessarily know who asked for them unless they start issuing press releases or attend ribbon cutting ceremonies and things like that to essentially take credit for what they asked for after.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Earmarks are almost a shortcut for some of the projects to get funding. How it works is that the state assembly and Senate leaders can set a spending cap for lawmakers. And lawmakers can submit a wish list in private of projects in their districts that they want funded. Because budget is this very fluid year-round process for lawmakers, in August, right before the session wraps, that is also an opportunity for them to tuck these projects into a budget amendment bill. It’s a very secretive process. The governor himself will also come up with a list of funding requests. Then it’s usually decided by the governor and the two legislative leaders on what gets funded. And lawmakers don’t put their names next to the projects they asked for. So you wouldn’t necessarily know who asked for them unless they start issuing press releases or attend ribbon cutting ceremonies and things like that to essentially take credit for what they asked for after.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What percentage of the overall state budget gets earmarked every year and how do they decide? Like, what is this pot of money?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What percentage of the overall state budget gets earmarked every year and how do they decide? Like, what is this pot of money?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu:\u003c/strong> It is a very small percentage compared to the size of the entire state budget. This year, for example, the state budget is about $300 billion, so it’s a lot of money. But the earmarks we’ve identified account for just $1.3 billion. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu:\u003c/strong> It is a very small percentage compared to the size of the entire state budget. This year, for example, the state budget is about $300 billion, so it’s a lot of money. But the earmarks we’ve identified account for just $1.3 billion. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/strong>: And it’s still taxpayer money. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/strong>: And it’s still taxpayer money. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu:\u003c/strong> Totally.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I wanna talk about what exactly got earmarked this year in the California state budget. I mean, we’re talking about quite a bit of money. When we’re taking about the regions of California that really benefited from this earmarking process, where did most of these earmarks go?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I wanna talk about what exactly got earmarked this year in the California state budget. I mean, we’re talking about quite a bit of money. When we’re taking about the regions of California that really benefited from this earmarking process, where did most of these earmarks go?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Yeah. We did an analysis that broke it down by county. So Los Angeles was the biggest winner this year with at least $300 million in earmarks. So that’s about a quarter of the total. Other top winners are in the Bay Area. Alameda County got almost $180 million and San Francisco got $109 million. One of the more noteworthy counties was Santa Barbara. So this is Senate President pro Tempore Monique Limón’s home county. It has about 450,000 residents, but it received almost $73 million in earmarks. Just to give you an idea of how big this is, I mean, Tulare County in the Central Valley is very similar in size, but that county received just $200,000 in earmarks. So that’s $200,000 compared to 73 million. There’s no rationale or a method of calculation that dictates how the money should be spent.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Yeah. We did an analysis that broke it down by county. So Los Angeles was the biggest winner this year with at least $300 million in earmarks. So that’s about a quarter of the total. Other top winners are in the Bay Area. Alameda County got almost $180 million and San Francisco got $109 million. One of the more noteworthy counties was Santa Barbara. So this is Senate President pro Tempore Monique Limón’s home county. It has about 450,000 residents, but it received almost $73 million in earmarks. Just to give you an idea of how big this is, I mean, Tulare County in the Central Valley is very similar in size, but that county received just $200,000 in earmarks. So that’s $200,000 compared to 73 million. There’s no rationale or a method of calculation that dictates how the money should be spent.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So you mentioned Stella the Bay Area was a big winner in this year’s earmark process. Who exactly is getting the money and for what kinds of things in the Bay area?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So you mentioned Stella the Bay Area was a big winner in this year’s earmark process. Who exactly is getting the money and for what kinds of things in the Bay area?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>So the biggest ticket item in the Bay Area was the $125 million to buy the Golden Gate Fields. This is the now defunct horse racetrack that is straddling Albany and Berkeley. And so originally a nonprofit and the regional park district in the East Bay said that they were going to raise $175 million to turn this space into a public park. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>So the biggest ticket item in the Bay Area was the $125 million to buy the Golden Gate Fields. This is the now defunct horse racetrack that is straddling Albany and Berkeley. And so originally a nonprofit and the regional park district in the East Bay said that they were going to raise $175 million to turn this space into a public park. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker 1:\u003c/strong> Now’s the time for us to imagine something different and Colgate fields.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker 1:\u003c/strong> Now’s the time for us to imagine something different and Colgate fields.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker 2: \u003c/strong>Berkeley Mayor Jesse Aragon says this is a big opportunity to develop one of the most prized properties in the entire Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker 2: \u003c/strong>Berkeley Mayor Jesse Aragon says this is a big opportunity to develop one of the most prized properties in the entire Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Then in May Newsom came out and said, you know, we’re just proposing that the state would foot most of the bill and he wanted in the final budget. There’s some other noteworthy Bay Area projects. There’s a total of $38 million that went to arts, museums, dance groups in San Francisco alone. You have $5 million to revamp the Castro Theater. You have three million dollars to a dance group whose founder was inducted into the Hall of Fame by the Newsom’s. You have almost $3 million to the Center for The Art of Translation, $400,000 to the San Francisco Mime Troupe, and there is another dozen or so dance companies or opera houses that each got half a million to a million dollars in state funding. And finally, just to name a few others, the UCSF Dyslexia Center got $8.4 million for dyslexia research. And this might be one that’s near and dear to Newsom’s heart, right? Because of his personal battle with dyslexia. $10 million went to San Francisco for road paving in different areas. And another $7.4 billion went to landscaping and irrigation at certain traffic medians. This is noteworthy because it’s very specific. You know, this is the type of funding that usually comes out of city or county budget for public works. So it’s unclear why the state needed to step in and why specifically for San Francisco. What my analysis shows is that no other county received this type of funding, you know, in such a specific way this year.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Then in May Newsom came out and said, you know, we’re just proposing that the state would foot most of the bill and he wanted in the final budget. There’s some other noteworthy Bay Area projects. There’s a total of $38 million that went to arts, museums, dance groups in San Francisco alone. You have $5 million to revamp the Castro Theater. You have three million dollars to a dance group whose founder was inducted into the Hall of Fame by the Newsom’s. You have almost $3 million to the Center for The Art of Translation, $400,000 to the San Francisco Mime Troupe, and there is another dozen or so dance companies or opera houses that each got half a million to a million dollars in state funding. And finally, just to name a few others, the UCSF Dyslexia Center got $8.4 million for dyslexia research. And this might be one that’s near and dear to Newsom’s heart, right? Because of his personal battle with dyslexia. $10 million went to San Francisco for road paving in different areas. And another $7.4 billion went to landscaping and irrigation at certain traffic medians. This is noteworthy because it’s very specific. You know, this is the type of funding that usually comes out of city or county budget for public works. So it’s unclear why the state needed to step in and why specifically for San Francisco. What my analysis shows is that no other county received this type of funding, you know, in such a specific way this year.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>All of those projects sound very random to me. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>All of those projects sound very random to me. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu\u003c/strong>: Yeah, that is one way to put it. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu\u003c/strong>: Yeah, that is one way to put it. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We’ll have more with CalMatters’ Stella Yu right after this break. By the way, if you appreciate the local deep dives that we bring you here on the Bay, consider becoming a sustaining KQED member. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back. Stella, my last few questions for you here. It seems like there were some pretty clear winners in this year’s earmark process, but who would you say loses?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We’ll have more with CalMatters’ Stella Yu right after this break. By the way, if you appreciate the local deep dives that we bring you here on the Bay, consider becoming a sustaining KQED member. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back. Stella, my last few questions for you here. It seems like there were some pretty clear winners in this year’s earmark process, but who would you say loses?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>In our analysis, there is a total of 17 counties that did not appear to get any earmark funding at all. Most of them are more remote counties in lower population areas, right, and mostly represented by Republicans. So it could be that there’s just fewer people there, or it could that they are represented by Republicans who are in the super minority that they just don’t have enough power to push through these funding requests. So in terms of winners and losers, definitely the Republicans are not taking as much home through the earmark process, as it always has been the case.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>In our analysis, there is a total of 17 counties that did not appear to get any earmark funding at all. Most of them are more remote counties in lower population areas, right, and mostly represented by Republicans. So it could be that there’s just fewer people there, or it could that they are represented by Republicans who are in the super minority that they just don’t have enough power to push through these funding requests. So in terms of winners and losers, definitely the Republicans are not taking as much home through the earmark process, as it always has been the case.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Yeah, that’s a great question. Because there is no definition on when the process should happen, right, or how much money, exactly, should you take from the state budget to distribute to districts, it is really up to the leaders in the legislature and the governor. I actually talked to Senator Dave Cortese, who is a Democrat from San Jose. And he did give me a little glimpse into how he approaches his asks. He told me that he tends to ask for funding for someone he knows, right? Some group whose work he’s very familiar with. And his rationale is, you know, look, I’m not going to give billions of dollars, state dollars to a nonprofit whose work I don’t know. I mean, that is putting my reputation at risk as well. So that kind of gives you an idea of what types of work, or what types of groups these lawmakers tend to gravitate toward, but he’s also just one of 120 lawmakers. For some of these projects, the reason is a mystery. We can see the apparent ties between certain lawmakers and the projects, but we can’t really prove that these projects are funded because this specific lawmaker requested them. I mean, those are the types of questions that we may not get answered. I have someone in the nonprofit world quoted in the story saying, if that is how nonprofits get money now, why do we waste this time and energy to go through the normal grant application process when we can just spend the money lobbying lawmakers to please let us jump through fewer hoops?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Yeah, that’s a great question. Because there is no definition on when the process should happen, right, or how much money, exactly, should you take from the state budget to distribute to districts, it is really up to the leaders in the legislature and the governor. I actually talked to Senator Dave Cortese, who is a Democrat from San Jose. And he did give me a little glimpse into how he approaches his asks. He told me that he tends to ask for funding for someone he knows, right? Some group whose work he’s very familiar with. And his rationale is, you know, look, I’m not going to give billions of dollars, state dollars to a nonprofit whose work I don’t know. I mean, that is putting my reputation at risk as well. So that kind of gives you an idea of what types of work, or what types of groups these lawmakers tend to gravitate toward, but he’s also just one of 120 lawmakers. For some of these projects, the reason is a mystery. We can see the apparent ties between certain lawmakers and the projects, but we can’t really prove that these projects are funded because this specific lawmaker requested them. I mean, those are the types of questions that we may not get answered. I have someone in the nonprofit world quoted in the story saying, if that is how nonprofits get money now, why do we waste this time and energy to go through the normal grant application process when we can just spend the money lobbying lawmakers to please let us jump through fewer hoops?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah, and it raises the question for me of like, why do we have this process at all? I mean, it seems like it’s been the norm in California. And even as you mentioned, outside of the California legislature, I mean at the federal level as well, for a long time.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>So the rationale is if you go through the normal grant application process, the state agency that’s distributing the money might not understand the gravity of this project. A lot of those projects have perhaps not gotten the money twice in a row, three times in a row. But the rationale, is the local lawmaker might understand that need better. And so through this process, they can champion it and perhaps this would get to the much quicker. So that is what the proponents say about the merits of this process.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah, and I guess if you’re a state legislator who wants to bring money home to your district, this is one way you see to do it.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Totally. Yeah, and you know, there is merit in talking about this right now because the election is around the corner, right and lawmakers who got earmarks this year will want to tout those achievements to win reelections Especially if they’re in a tough race if they have something they can point to as hey voters, look at this I brought this home then they can prove to their constituents that they did something for the district. So yeah, so I’m glad we’re talking about it now because voters who are interested in in that aspect of it could look into what exactly their representatives brought home and and that might influence how they vote.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Totally. Yeah, and you know, there is merit in talking about this right now because the election is around the corner, right and lawmakers who got earmarks this year will want to tout those achievements to win reelections Especially if they’re in a tough race if they have something they can point to as hey voters, look at this I brought this home then they can prove to their constituents that they did something for the district. So yeah, so I’m glad we’re talking about it now because voters who are interested in in that aspect of it could look into what exactly their representatives brought home and and that might influence how they vote.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Stella, thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us. I really appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Stella, thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us. I really appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Stella Yu, a politics and campaign reporter for CalMatters. This conversation was cut down and edited by me, Pauline Bartolone scored this episode, we got extra production support from Gabriela Glueck, music courtesy of APM. If you want to get in touch with us here at The Bay, feel free to send us an email or at thebay.kqed.org. The Bay is a production of listener-supported KQED. You can help power our show by becoming a KQED member. Just go to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. Support for The Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Thanks so much for listening. Talk to you next time.\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>What do martial artists, mime performers, and a farmers market have in common? They all received millions of dollars from the state budget this past summer. The money was earmarked for them, set aside as part of a longstanding and opaque budget process that CalMatters’ reporter Stella Yu has spent a long time trying to understand.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/politics/2026/09/california-budget-pork-project-2026/\">How a gym, a farmers market and MMA fighters landed millions in Newsom’s last budget\u003c/a> (CalMatters)\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Transcript\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. Martial artists, a mime troupe, and a farmer’s market. These things don’t appear to have a lot in common, but there’s money set aside for all of them in the state budget that Governor Gavin Newsom signed this summer as part of a little-known budget process called earmarking.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Earmarks are this special pot of money in the state budget that gets quickly approved without much of a public debate or public notice.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>CalMatters reporter Stella Yu slogged through the new state budget to find out which projects got money through this annual and secretive process, one that raises concerns about transparency and equity.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>And even after earmarks are approved, it is hard for the public to find them out in hundreds of pages of budget bills, or find out who requested for them. It’s a very strenuous process.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We peel back the curtain on earmarks and discuss the Bay Area projects that got millions of dollars through this process. So yeah, I mean, we’re talking about this one part of this larger budget process that happens in the California legislature, maybe a part of the process that not a lot of people know about. And we’re talk about earmarks here. I mean what are earmarks exactly and how is it different from how money is usually doled out by the legislature?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Earmarks are almost a shortcut for some of the projects to get funding. How it works is that the state assembly and Senate leaders can set a spending cap for lawmakers. And lawmakers can submit a wish list in private of projects in their districts that they want funded. Because budget is this very fluid year-round process for lawmakers, in August, right before the session wraps, that is also an opportunity for them to tuck these projects into a budget amendment bill. It’s a very secretive process. The governor himself will also come up with a list of funding requests. Then it’s usually decided by the governor and the two legislative leaders on what gets funded. And lawmakers don’t put their names next to the projects they asked for. So you wouldn’t necessarily know who asked for them unless they start issuing press releases or attend ribbon cutting ceremonies and things like that to essentially take credit for what they asked for after.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What percentage of the overall state budget gets earmarked every year and how do they decide? Like, what is this pot of money?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu:\u003c/strong> It is a very small percentage compared to the size of the entire state budget. This year, for example, the state budget is about $300 billion, so it’s a lot of money. But the earmarks we’ve identified account for just $1.3 billion. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/strong>: And it’s still taxpayer money. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu:\u003c/strong> Totally.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I wanna talk about what exactly got earmarked this year in the California state budget. I mean, we’re talking about quite a bit of money. When we’re taking about the regions of California that really benefited from this earmarking process, where did most of these earmarks go?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Yeah. We did an analysis that broke it down by county. So Los Angeles was the biggest winner this year with at least $300 million in earmarks. So that’s about a quarter of the total. Other top winners are in the Bay Area. Alameda County got almost $180 million and San Francisco got $109 million. One of the more noteworthy counties was Santa Barbara. So this is Senate President pro Tempore Monique Limón’s home county. It has about 450,000 residents, but it received almost $73 million in earmarks. Just to give you an idea of how big this is, I mean, Tulare County in the Central Valley is very similar in size, but that county received just $200,000 in earmarks. So that’s $200,000 compared to 73 million. There’s no rationale or a method of calculation that dictates how the money should be spent.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So you mentioned Stella the Bay Area was a big winner in this year’s earmark process. Who exactly is getting the money and for what kinds of things in the Bay area?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>So the biggest ticket item in the Bay Area was the $125 million to buy the Golden Gate Fields. This is the now defunct horse racetrack that is straddling Albany and Berkeley. And so originally a nonprofit and the regional park district in the East Bay said that they were going to raise $175 million to turn this space into a public park. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker 1:\u003c/strong> Now’s the time for us to imagine something different and Colgate fields.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker 2: \u003c/strong>Berkeley Mayor Jesse Aragon says this is a big opportunity to develop one of the most prized properties in the entire Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Then in May Newsom came out and said, you know, we’re just proposing that the state would foot most of the bill and he wanted in the final budget. There’s some other noteworthy Bay Area projects. There’s a total of $38 million that went to arts, museums, dance groups in San Francisco alone. You have $5 million to revamp the Castro Theater. You have three million dollars to a dance group whose founder was inducted into the Hall of Fame by the Newsom’s. You have almost $3 million to the Center for The Art of Translation, $400,000 to the San Francisco Mime Troupe, and there is another dozen or so dance companies or opera houses that each got half a million to a million dollars in state funding. And finally, just to name a few others, the UCSF Dyslexia Center got $8.4 million for dyslexia research. And this might be one that’s near and dear to Newsom’s heart, right? Because of his personal battle with dyslexia. $10 million went to San Francisco for road paving in different areas. And another $7.4 billion went to landscaping and irrigation at certain traffic medians. This is noteworthy because it’s very specific. You know, this is the type of funding that usually comes out of city or county budget for public works. So it’s unclear why the state needed to step in and why specifically for San Francisco. What my analysis shows is that no other county received this type of funding, you know, in such a specific way this year.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>All of those projects sound very random to me. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu\u003c/strong>: Yeah, that is one way to put it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We’ll have more with CalMatters’ Stella Yu right after this break. By the way, if you appreciate the local deep dives that we bring you here on the Bay, consider becoming a sustaining KQED member. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back. Stella, my last few questions for you here. It seems like there were some pretty clear winners in this year’s earmark process, but who would you say loses?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>In our analysis, there is a total of 17 counties that did not appear to get any earmark funding at all. Most of them are more remote counties in lower population areas, right, and mostly represented by Republicans. So it could be that there’s just fewer people there, or it could that they are represented by Republicans who are in the super minority that they just don’t have enough power to push through these funding requests. So in terms of winners and losers, definitely the Republicans are not taking as much home through the earmark process, as it always has been the case.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>It sounds like there is not a very satisfying answer that we’re gonna get today about why these projects were chosen, but what might contribute to why these projects get chosen in the earmark process? Is it, in some cases, because the governor is interested in a particular project or a certain legislator just has maybe more power or influence?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Yeah, that’s a great question. Because there is no definition on when the process should happen, right, or how much money, exactly, should you take from the state budget to distribute to districts, it is really up to the leaders in the legislature and the governor. I actually talked to Senator Dave Cortese, who is a Democrat from San Jose. And he did give me a little glimpse into how he approaches his asks. He told me that he tends to ask for funding for someone he knows, right? Some group whose work he’s very familiar with. And his rationale is, you know, look, I’m not going to give billions of dollars, state dollars to a nonprofit whose work I don’t know. I mean, that is putting my reputation at risk as well. So that kind of gives you an idea of what types of work, or what types of groups these lawmakers tend to gravitate toward, but he’s also just one of 120 lawmakers. For some of these projects, the reason is a mystery. We can see the apparent ties between certain lawmakers and the projects, but we can’t really prove that these projects are funded because this specific lawmaker requested them. I mean, those are the types of questions that we may not get answered. I have someone in the nonprofit world quoted in the story saying, if that is how nonprofits get money now, why do we waste this time and energy to go through the normal grant application process when we can just spend the money lobbying lawmakers to please let us jump through fewer hoops?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah, and it raises the question for me of like, why do we have this process at all? I mean, it seems like it’s been the norm in California. And even as you mentioned, outside of the California legislature, I mean at the federal level as well, for a long time.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>So the rationale is if you go through the normal grant application process, the state agency that’s distributing the money might not understand the gravity of this project. A lot of those projects have perhaps not gotten the money twice in a row, three times in a row. But the rationale, is the local lawmaker might understand that need better. And so through this process, they can champion it and perhaps this would get to the much quicker. So that is what the proponents say about the merits of this process.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah, and I guess if you’re a state legislator who wants to bring money home to your district, this is one way you see to do it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Totally. Yeah, and you know, there is merit in talking about this right now because the election is around the corner, right and lawmakers who got earmarks this year will want to tout those achievements to win reelections Especially if they’re in a tough race if they have something they can point to as hey voters, look at this I brought this home then they can prove to their constituents that they did something for the district. So yeah, so I’m glad we’re talking about it now because voters who are interested in in that aspect of it could look into what exactly their representatives brought home and and that might influence how they vote.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Stella, thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us. I really appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Yue Stella Yu: \u003c/strong>Of course, yeah, thanks so much for bringing me on to talk about it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Stella Yu, a politics and campaign reporter for CalMatters. This conversation was cut down and edited by me, Pauline Bartolone scored this episode, we got extra production support from Gabriela Glueck, music courtesy of APM. If you want to get in touch with us here at The Bay, feel free to send us an email or at thebay.kqed.org. The Bay is a production of listener-supported KQED. You can help power our show by becoming a KQED member. Just go to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. Support for The Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Thanks so much for listening. Talk to you next time.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "Prop 45: Faster Environmental Reviews for Certain Projects",
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"content": "\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Episode Transcript:\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:00] \u003c/em>In 1970, as California was building freeways and developing dams and levees, Governor Ronald Reagan signed the California Environmental Quality Act into law. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:10] \u003c/em>CEQA, as it’s known, requires public agencies to consider the environmental impact of big projects. How rivers could be impacted by new dams and levees, or how local marshland could face more noise pollution. It’s a way of saying, look before you leap, or in this case, build. But housing advocates have often taken issue with CEQa. Arguing that it’s been used to block or stall much needed development here in California. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:43] \u003c/em>Now, Prop 45 seeks to change the landmark statute by tightening the timeframe for the environmental review process. Those who oppose the proposition aren’t just worried about what it means for the environment, but also whether it can open the door to more data centers. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:02] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara, host of The Bay. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:06] \u003c/em>And I’m Olivia Ellen Price, host of Bay Curious, and you made it to the final edition of PropFest 2026. This has been a collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curios, and this is the 14th and final prop. Are you ready, Ericka? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:22] \u003c/em>I sure am, Olivia. Here’s how Prop 45 will read on your ballot. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:30] \u003c/em>Prop 45, modifies environmental review for certain projects. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:36] \u003c/em>Here to walk us through Proposition 45 is KQED’s climate reporter Laura Klivans. Hey Laura.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:43] \u003c/em>Hello \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:44] \u003c/em>So Laura, Prop 45 would overhaul the California Environmental Quality Act. First, what is the California environmental quality act, otherwise known as CEQA? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:58] \u003c/em>So CEQA is this major California environmental law, and it was passed in 1970 under then-Governor Reagan. And the goal was to require government agencies to study and share potential environmental impacts of public projects like dams and highways and power plants and to do what was possible to reduce or mitigate those impacts. Over time, there have been many lawsuits around it, and it is now applicable to not just public projects, but private ones. Proponents view this law as an essential environmental law for California to protect our environment and think about longer term consequences to building. Critics do not like CEQA because they say it offers people with special interests the opportunity to delay and block projects in the name of the environment. So therefore it’s been like very controversial. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:55] \u003c/em>Private projects as in… Maybe a new apartment building or a new housing complex?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:02] \u003c/em>Yeah \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:04] \u003c/em>So Prop 45 would make some tweaks to CEQA. How exactly could CEQA change under Prop 45? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:11] \u003c/em>So the proposition is saying let’s speed up the environmental reviews for certain projects that it calls essential. So those would be things like housing or clean energy, not including nuclear, hospitals, clinics, schools, fire, wildfire risk reductions, like things that sound really important, transportation, and here’s an interesting category, broadband access. We’ll come back to why that’s so interesting. So Prop 45 would put a timeline on CEQA review for these essential categories I mentioned. It would set a 365 day time limit on environmental reviews for these projects. It would require courts to rule on CEQA related lawsuits within 270 days. And then it also changes some other details. So like here’s an example of one, a government agency that’s overseeing a review. They would need to specify all the information that they’d like to get from the application, from the builder, at the time that it needs to be submitted, rather than going back to the builder again and again and saying, we need more info for this and more info for that. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:22] \u003c/em>Who put this on the ballot and why are we as voters being asked to potentially make some changes to CEQA?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:29] \u003c/em>So the California Chamber of Commerce has sponsored this proposition, and they represent businesses, they advocate for them, they lobby for them. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jennifer Barrera: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:38] \u003c/em>The CEQA law was well-intentioned, but we have seen, obviously, the law be abused and misused in order to block projects by groups who don’t want to see any development, don’t want to any growth here in California. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:50] \u003c/em>Jennifer Barrera is the CEO of the California Chamber of Commerce, and she is saying we have an issue with growth, nothing’s affordable here, and this would basically advance projects that they designated as essential more quickly and easily. It would streamline legal challenges, reduce frivolous lawsuits, things like that. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jennifer Barrera: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:10] \u003c/em>When we talk about delay, and I’ll keep going back to housing just because it is such an important point of our affordability crisis and a part of this ballot initiative, but when you delay ultimate housing, I mean that creates inequity in our population. That creates losers with regards to those who can’t afford and those who can’t afford. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:28] \u003c/em>Proponents say, you know, you’re still going to have environmental review, we’re just going to put like a shot clock on it, as they say. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:38] \u003c/em>So you mentioned the California Chamber of Commerce. Who else is in favor of this measure?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:45] \u003c/em>There are groups that represent places that need to build, like hospitals or some housing organizations and some building industries, like the workers. Also notably, Buffy Wicks, she’s a California Assembly member, and she is one of the people who championed change last year to CEQA. That has exempted housing that is already on developed areas from CEQA review. So that was a major reform that already happened last year. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:17] \u003c/em>We’ll have more on Prop 45 with KQED’s Laura Klivans, right after this break. By the way, did you know that KQED is funded almost entirely by everyday listeners just like you? Consider becoming a sustaining KQED member by going to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:46] \u003c/em>So you have some folks who say that these changes to CEQA are necessary in order to address this housing crisis that we’re in, in part. Who is coming out in opposition to this measure and what are their arguments?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:59] \u003c/em>There are a bunch of other folks who are against this, like environmental groups, environmental justice groups, health groups, unions that represent teachers and firefighters, for example, are against us. One major argument is that, hey, this is too broad. This is our landmark environmental regulation. Let’s keep it. And state Senator Catherine Blakespear represents northern San Diego and part of Orange County and has come out in opposition. She chairs the Senate Environmental Quality Committee.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sen. Catherine Blakespear: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:27] \u003c/em>It’s really important that California continue to be a bulwark against the backsliding and we continue to fight climate change and to protect our environment.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:36] \u003c/em>She’s saying it’s going to allow for more homes to be built in something called the wildland urban interface, which is like basically places that butt up against beautiful nature areas, but are therefore very fire prone. And so she and some other state legislators are saying this is a terrible idea. We don’t need to build more housing in those areas. And this would allow for that. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sen. Catherine Blakespear: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:01] \u003c/em>It really just goes way too far and creates these very big loopholes and changes our system of CEQA and our environmental review, which is our landmark environmental laws in California since the 1970s. And it is far, far too broad. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:16] \u003c/em>I think we all know that it takes a long time to build housing in California and that one of the main arguments for Prop 45 is the idea that we need to build more housing more quickly. What about pro-housing or YIMBY (Yes In My Backyard) groups? What do they think about this measure? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:35] \u003c/em>Yeah, so it’s mixed. There are some housing groups that support Proposition 45. And then, actually, interestingly, this one large group, California YMBY, YIMBY stands for ‘Yes in My Backyard,’ they have come out with no position on this. They are neutral. That’s because they see both reasons to support this measure and reasons to oppose it. And on the one hand, it could fast track sprawl, which is not something they support, so. Maybe it makes it easier to build a highway, makes it easy to build housing that is not in a dense or already populated area. On the other hand, it might make it easier to build clean energy and clean energy infrastructure, which is something that they would support. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:23] \u003c/em>So we’ve been talking about CEQA in the context of building more housing, but it of course applies to all kinds of projects in California. And when it comes to Prop 45, there’s actually one specific kind of project that has made its way into the debate and that’s data centers? Can you explain why data centers have become part of the conversation around Prop 45?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:48] \u003c/em>Yes, so people who support Prop 45 say this does not apply to data centers. And opponents, people who are saying no to this proposition, they say, oh, but it could. Look at the broadband access category. The language is broad enough that it could be construed to include data centers, Opponents are also saying, listen, the people who wrote this made carve-outs for what it doesn’t make exclusions for. There’s this huge category of transportation And it says in the language that it doesn’t include high-speed rail. There’s a category for clean energy. Also in the Language for Prop 45, it says that doesn’t including nuclear. So if this truly does not include data centers, wouldn’t the people who wrote this get ahead of that and write, this doesn’t included data centers in the language? And the people that wrote it are saying, well, we weren’t thinking of that because broadband access doesn’t includes data centers. That’s just as simple as that. So that is up in the air. And now data centers is such a wild issue now, and it’s really, we’ve seen it explode politically, that that has impacted this proposition. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:55] \u003c/em>Enough people are worried about it that they are, I don’t know, seeing data centers in Prop 45 and adding it to the debate, it sounds like. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:03] \u003c/em>Right. Right. And then this is super interesting. So pulling from the Public Policy Institute of California showed support among likely voters was at 73% in July and in September it is 49 percent. In that time, the data center conversation started happening. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:26] \u003c/em>Let’s talk about campaign spending here, Laura. What are we seeing on the pro-Prop 45 side in terms of spending? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:35] \u003c/em>There’s a lot of money. When I checked last, over $40 million. We see a lot of Silicon Valley tech people, Google executives, like the former CEO, Eric Schmidt, and more. We also see money coming in from the building trades. And then against, still some money there, $15 million. But this was interesting when I was looking at the money because one of the top donors is Wendy Schmidt, who is married to Eric Schmidt. And she has put $5 million in against Prop 45. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:06] \u003c/em>Laura, thank you so much. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:08] \u003c/em>Thank you for having me.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:13] \u003c/em>In a nutshell, a yes vote on this measure means environmental reviews can be expedited for certain projects. A no vote means projects would continue to use existing project review and court challenge procedures under CEQA. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:30] \u003c/em>We made it to the finish line, y’all. Thanks so much for joining us on this wild ride. We hope you’re feeling more prepared than ever to cast your ballot this November.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:38] \u003c/em>And if you don’t, you can always go back and listen to the entire Prop Fest series again at kqed.org/propfest. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:48] \u003c/em>Do us a favor and send Prop Fest to one friend right now. Word of mouth really helps us grow our shows. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:57] \u003c/em>Prop Fest is made possible thanks to Katrina Schwartz Pauline Bartolone Anna Casalme Olivia Allen Price Gabriela Glick Christopher Beale, Alan Montecillo and me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:11] \u003c/em>We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Springer, Jen Chien. Ethan Toven Lindsey. And everyone on Team KQED. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:20] \u003c/em>Our show is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Support for the Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:42] \u003c/em>And I’m Olivia Allen Price. Good luck with your ballot. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:10] \u003c/em>CEQA, as it’s known, requires public agencies to consider the environmental impact of big projects. How rivers could be impacted by new dams and levees, or how local marshland could face more noise pollution. It’s a way of saying, look before you leap, or in this case, build. But housing advocates have often taken issue with CEQa. Arguing that it’s been used to block or stall much needed development here in California. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:10] \u003c/em>CEQA, as it’s known, requires public agencies to consider the environmental impact of big projects. How rivers could be impacted by new dams and levees, or how local marshland could face more noise pollution. It’s a way of saying, look before you leap, or in this case, build. But housing advocates have often taken issue with CEQa. Arguing that it’s been used to block or stall much needed development here in California. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:43] \u003c/em>Now, Prop 45 seeks to change the landmark statute by tightening the timeframe for the environmental review process. Those who oppose the proposition aren’t just worried about what it means for the environment, but also whether it can open the door to more data centers. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:43] \u003c/em>Now, Prop 45 seeks to change the landmark statute by tightening the timeframe for the environmental review process. Those who oppose the proposition aren’t just worried about what it means for the environment, but also whether it can open the door to more data centers. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:02] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara, host of The Bay. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:06] \u003c/em>And I’m Olivia Ellen Price, host of Bay Curious, and you made it to the final edition of PropFest 2026. This has been a collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curios, and this is the 14th and final prop. Are you ready, Ericka? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:06] \u003c/em>And I’m Olivia Ellen Price, host of Bay Curious, and you made it to the final edition of PropFest 2026. This has been a collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curios, and this is the 14th and final prop. Are you ready, Ericka? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:22] \u003c/em>I sure am, Olivia. Here’s how Prop 45 will read on your ballot. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:22] \u003c/em>I sure am, Olivia. Here’s how Prop 45 will read on your ballot. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:30] \u003c/em>Prop 45, modifies environmental review for certain projects. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:36] \u003c/em>Here to walk us through Proposition 45 is KQED’s climate reporter Laura Klivans. Hey Laura.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:36] \u003c/em>Here to walk us through Proposition 45 is KQED’s climate reporter Laura Klivans. Hey Laura.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:44] \u003c/em>So Laura, Prop 45 would overhaul the California Environmental Quality Act. First, what is the California environmental quality act, otherwise known as CEQA? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:44] \u003c/em>So Laura, Prop 45 would overhaul the California Environmental Quality Act. First, what is the California environmental quality act, otherwise known as CEQA? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:58] \u003c/em>So CEQA is this major California environmental law, and it was passed in 1970 under then-Governor Reagan. And the goal was to require government agencies to study and share potential environmental impacts of public projects like dams and highways and power plants and to do what was possible to reduce or mitigate those impacts. Over time, there have been many lawsuits around it, and it is now applicable to not just public projects, but private ones. Proponents view this law as an essential environmental law for California to protect our environment and think about longer term consequences to building. Critics do not like CEQA because they say it offers people with special interests the opportunity to delay and block projects in the name of the environment. So therefore it’s been like very controversial. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:58] \u003c/em>So CEQA is this major California environmental law, and it was passed in 1970 under then-Governor Reagan. And the goal was to require government agencies to study and share potential environmental impacts of public projects like dams and highways and power plants and to do what was possible to reduce or mitigate those impacts. Over time, there have been many lawsuits around it, and it is now applicable to not just public projects, but private ones. Proponents view this law as an essential environmental law for California to protect our environment and think about longer term consequences to building. Critics do not like CEQA because they say it offers people with special interests the opportunity to delay and block projects in the name of the environment. So therefore it’s been like very controversial. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:55] \u003c/em>Private projects as in… Maybe a new apartment building or a new housing complex?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:55] \u003c/em>Private projects as in… Maybe a new apartment building or a new housing complex?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:02] \u003c/em>Yeah \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:04] \u003c/em>So Prop 45 would make some tweaks to CEQA. How exactly could CEQA change under Prop 45? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:04] \u003c/em>So Prop 45 would make some tweaks to CEQA. How exactly could CEQA change under Prop 45? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:11] \u003c/em>So the proposition is saying let’s speed up the environmental reviews for certain projects that it calls essential. So those would be things like housing or clean energy, not including nuclear, hospitals, clinics, schools, fire, wildfire risk reductions, like things that sound really important, transportation, and here’s an interesting category, broadband access. We’ll come back to why that’s so interesting. So Prop 45 would put a timeline on CEQA review for these essential categories I mentioned. It would set a 365 day time limit on environmental reviews for these projects. It would require courts to rule on CEQA related lawsuits within 270 days. And then it also changes some other details. So like here’s an example of one, a government agency that’s overseeing a review. They would need to specify all the information that they’d like to get from the application, from the builder, at the time that it needs to be submitted, rather than going back to the builder again and again and saying, we need more info for this and more info for that. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:11] \u003c/em>So the proposition is saying let’s speed up the environmental reviews for certain projects that it calls essential. So those would be things like housing or clean energy, not including nuclear, hospitals, clinics, schools, fire, wildfire risk reductions, like things that sound really important, transportation, and here’s an interesting category, broadband access. We’ll come back to why that’s so interesting. So Prop 45 would put a timeline on CEQA review for these essential categories I mentioned. It would set a 365 day time limit on environmental reviews for these projects. It would require courts to rule on CEQA related lawsuits within 270 days. And then it also changes some other details. So like here’s an example of one, a government agency that’s overseeing a review. They would need to specify all the information that they’d like to get from the application, from the builder, at the time that it needs to be submitted, rather than going back to the builder again and again and saying, we need more info for this and more info for that. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:22] \u003c/em>Who put this on the ballot and why are we as voters being asked to potentially make some changes to CEQA?\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:29] \u003c/em>So the California Chamber of Commerce has sponsored this proposition, and they represent businesses, they advocate for them, they lobby for them. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:29] \u003c/em>So the California Chamber of Commerce has sponsored this proposition, and they represent businesses, they advocate for them, they lobby for them. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jennifer Barrera: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:38] \u003c/em>The CEQA law was well-intentioned, but we have seen, obviously, the law be abused and misused in order to block projects by groups who don’t want to see any development, don’t want to any growth here in California. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jennifer Barrera: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:38] \u003c/em>The CEQA law was well-intentioned, but we have seen, obviously, the law be abused and misused in order to block projects by groups who don’t want to see any development, don’t want to any growth here in California. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:50] \u003c/em>Jennifer Barrera is the CEO of the California Chamber of Commerce, and she is saying we have an issue with growth, nothing’s affordable here, and this would basically advance projects that they designated as essential more quickly and easily. It would streamline legal challenges, reduce frivolous lawsuits, things like that. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:50] \u003c/em>Jennifer Barrera is the CEO of the California Chamber of Commerce, and she is saying we have an issue with growth, nothing’s affordable here, and this would basically advance projects that they designated as essential more quickly and easily. It would streamline legal challenges, reduce frivolous lawsuits, things like that. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jennifer Barrera: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:10] \u003c/em>When we talk about delay, and I’ll keep going back to housing just because it is such an important point of our affordability crisis and a part of this ballot initiative, but when you delay ultimate housing, I mean that creates inequity in our population. That creates losers with regards to those who can’t afford and those who can’t afford. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jennifer Barrera: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:10] \u003c/em>When we talk about delay, and I’ll keep going back to housing just because it is such an important point of our affordability crisis and a part of this ballot initiative, but when you delay ultimate housing, I mean that creates inequity in our population. That creates losers with regards to those who can’t afford and those who can’t afford. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:28] \u003c/em>Proponents say, you know, you’re still going to have environmental review, we’re just going to put like a shot clock on it, as they say. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:28] \u003c/em>Proponents say, you know, you’re still going to have environmental review, we’re just going to put like a shot clock on it, as they say. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:38] \u003c/em>So you mentioned the California Chamber of Commerce. Who else is in favor of this measure?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:38] \u003c/em>So you mentioned the California Chamber of Commerce. Who else is in favor of this measure?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:45] \u003c/em>There are groups that represent places that need to build, like hospitals or some housing organizations and some building industries, like the workers. Also notably, Buffy Wicks, she’s a California Assembly member, and she is one of the people who championed change last year to CEQA. That has exempted housing that is already on developed areas from CEQA review. So that was a major reform that already happened last year. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:45] \u003c/em>There are groups that represent places that need to build, like hospitals or some housing organizations and some building industries, like the workers. Also notably, Buffy Wicks, she’s a California Assembly member, and she is one of the people who championed change last year to CEQA. That has exempted housing that is already on developed areas from CEQA review. So that was a major reform that already happened last year. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:17] \u003c/em>We’ll have more on Prop 45 with KQED’s Laura Klivans, right after this break. By the way, did you know that KQED is funded almost entirely by everyday listeners just like you? Consider becoming a sustaining KQED member by going to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:17] \u003c/em>We’ll have more on Prop 45 with KQED’s Laura Klivans, right after this break. By the way, did you know that KQED is funded almost entirely by everyday listeners just like you? Consider becoming a sustaining KQED member by going to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:46] \u003c/em>So you have some folks who say that these changes to CEQA are necessary in order to address this housing crisis that we’re in, in part. Who is coming out in opposition to this measure and what are their arguments?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:46] \u003c/em>So you have some folks who say that these changes to CEQA are necessary in order to address this housing crisis that we’re in, in part. Who is coming out in opposition to this measure and what are their arguments?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:59] \u003c/em>There are a bunch of other folks who are against this, like environmental groups, environmental justice groups, health groups, unions that represent teachers and firefighters, for example, are against us. One major argument is that, hey, this is too broad. This is our landmark environmental regulation. Let’s keep it. And state Senator Catherine Blakespear represents northern San Diego and part of Orange County and has come out in opposition. She chairs the Senate Environmental Quality Committee.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:59] \u003c/em>There are a bunch of other folks who are against this, like environmental groups, environmental justice groups, health groups, unions that represent teachers and firefighters, for example, are against us. One major argument is that, hey, this is too broad. This is our landmark environmental regulation. Let’s keep it. And state Senator Catherine Blakespear represents northern San Diego and part of Orange County and has come out in opposition. She chairs the Senate Environmental Quality Committee.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sen. Catherine Blakespear: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:27] \u003c/em>It’s really important that California continue to be a bulwark against the backsliding and we continue to fight climate change and to protect our environment.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sen. Catherine Blakespear: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:27] \u003c/em>It’s really important that California continue to be a bulwark against the backsliding and we continue to fight climate change and to protect our environment.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:36] \u003c/em>She’s saying it’s going to allow for more homes to be built in something called the wildland urban interface, which is like basically places that butt up against beautiful nature areas, but are therefore very fire prone. And so she and some other state legislators are saying this is a terrible idea. We don’t need to build more housing in those areas. And this would allow for that. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:36] \u003c/em>She’s saying it’s going to allow for more homes to be built in something called the wildland urban interface, which is like basically places that butt up against beautiful nature areas, but are therefore very fire prone. And so she and some other state legislators are saying this is a terrible idea. We don’t need to build more housing in those areas. And this would allow for that. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sen. Catherine Blakespear: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:01] \u003c/em>It really just goes way too far and creates these very big loopholes and changes our system of CEQA and our environmental review, which is our landmark environmental laws in California since the 1970s. And it is far, far too broad. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sen. Catherine Blakespear: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:01] \u003c/em>It really just goes way too far and creates these very big loopholes and changes our system of CEQA and our environmental review, which is our landmark environmental laws in California since the 1970s. And it is far, far too broad. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:16] \u003c/em>I think we all know that it takes a long time to build housing in California and that one of the main arguments for Prop 45 is the idea that we need to build more housing more quickly. What about pro-housing or YIMBY (Yes In My Backyard) groups? What do they think about this measure? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:16] \u003c/em>I think we all know that it takes a long time to build housing in California and that one of the main arguments for Prop 45 is the idea that we need to build more housing more quickly. What about pro-housing or YIMBY (Yes In My Backyard) groups? What do they think about this measure? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:35] \u003c/em>Yeah, so it’s mixed. There are some housing groups that support Proposition 45. And then, actually, interestingly, this one large group, California YMBY, YIMBY stands for ‘Yes in My Backyard,’ they have come out with no position on this. They are neutral. That’s because they see both reasons to support this measure and reasons to oppose it. And on the one hand, it could fast track sprawl, which is not something they support, so. Maybe it makes it easier to build a highway, makes it easy to build housing that is not in a dense or already populated area. On the other hand, it might make it easier to build clean energy and clean energy infrastructure, which is something that they would support. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:35] \u003c/em>Yeah, so it’s mixed. There are some housing groups that support Proposition 45. And then, actually, interestingly, this one large group, California YMBY, YIMBY stands for ‘Yes in My Backyard,’ they have come out with no position on this. They are neutral. That’s because they see both reasons to support this measure and reasons to oppose it. And on the one hand, it could fast track sprawl, which is not something they support, so. Maybe it makes it easier to build a highway, makes it easy to build housing that is not in a dense or already populated area. On the other hand, it might make it easier to build clean energy and clean energy infrastructure, which is something that they would support. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:23] \u003c/em>So we’ve been talking about CEQA in the context of building more housing, but it of course applies to all kinds of projects in California. And when it comes to Prop 45, there’s actually one specific kind of project that has made its way into the debate and that’s data centers? Can you explain why data centers have become part of the conversation around Prop 45?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:23] \u003c/em>So we’ve been talking about CEQA in the context of building more housing, but it of course applies to all kinds of projects in California. And when it comes to Prop 45, there’s actually one specific kind of project that has made its way into the debate and that’s data centers? Can you explain why data centers have become part of the conversation around Prop 45?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:48] \u003c/em>Yes, so people who support Prop 45 say this does not apply to data centers. And opponents, people who are saying no to this proposition, they say, oh, but it could. Look at the broadband access category. The language is broad enough that it could be construed to include data centers, Opponents are also saying, listen, the people who wrote this made carve-outs for what it doesn’t make exclusions for. There’s this huge category of transportation And it says in the language that it doesn’t include high-speed rail. There’s a category for clean energy. Also in the Language for Prop 45, it says that doesn’t including nuclear. So if this truly does not include data centers, wouldn’t the people who wrote this get ahead of that and write, this doesn’t included data centers in the language? And the people that wrote it are saying, well, we weren’t thinking of that because broadband access doesn’t includes data centers. That’s just as simple as that. So that is up in the air. And now data centers is such a wild issue now, and it’s really, we’ve seen it explode politically, that that has impacted this proposition. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:48] \u003c/em>Yes, so people who support Prop 45 say this does not apply to data centers. And opponents, people who are saying no to this proposition, they say, oh, but it could. Look at the broadband access category. The language is broad enough that it could be construed to include data centers, Opponents are also saying, listen, the people who wrote this made carve-outs for what it doesn’t make exclusions for. There’s this huge category of transportation And it says in the language that it doesn’t include high-speed rail. There’s a category for clean energy. Also in the Language for Prop 45, it says that doesn’t including nuclear. So if this truly does not include data centers, wouldn’t the people who wrote this get ahead of that and write, this doesn’t included data centers in the language? And the people that wrote it are saying, well, we weren’t thinking of that because broadband access doesn’t includes data centers. That’s just as simple as that. So that is up in the air. And now data centers is such a wild issue now, and it’s really, we’ve seen it explode politically, that that has impacted this proposition. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:55] \u003c/em>Enough people are worried about it that they are, I don’t know, seeing data centers in Prop 45 and adding it to the debate, it sounds like. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:55] \u003c/em>Enough people are worried about it that they are, I don’t know, seeing data centers in Prop 45 and adding it to the debate, it sounds like. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:03] \u003c/em>Right. Right. And then this is super interesting. So pulling from the Public Policy Institute of California showed support among likely voters was at 73% in July and in September it is 49 percent. In that time, the data center conversation started happening. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:03] \u003c/em>Right. Right. And then this is super interesting. So pulling from the Public Policy Institute of California showed support among likely voters was at 73% in July and in September it is 49 percent. In that time, the data center conversation started happening. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:26] \u003c/em>Let’s talk about campaign spending here, Laura. What are we seeing on the pro-Prop 45 side in terms of spending? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:26] \u003c/em>Let’s talk about campaign spending here, Laura. What are we seeing on the pro-Prop 45 side in terms of spending? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:35] \u003c/em>There’s a lot of money. When I checked last, over $40 million. We see a lot of Silicon Valley tech people, Google executives, like the former CEO, Eric Schmidt, and more. We also see money coming in from the building trades. And then against, still some money there, $15 million. But this was interesting when I was looking at the money because one of the top donors is Wendy Schmidt, who is married to Eric Schmidt. And she has put $5 million in against Prop 45. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:06] \u003c/em>Laura, thank you so much. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:08] \u003c/em>Thank you for having me.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:13] \u003c/em>In a nutshell, a yes vote on this measure means environmental reviews can be expedited for certain projects. A no vote means projects would continue to use existing project review and court challenge procedures under CEQA. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:13] \u003c/em>In a nutshell, a yes vote on this measure means environmental reviews can be expedited for certain projects. A no vote means projects would continue to use existing project review and court challenge procedures under CEQA. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:30] \u003c/em>We made it to the finish line, y’all. Thanks so much for joining us on this wild ride. We hope you’re feeling more prepared than ever to cast your ballot this November.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:30] \u003c/em>We made it to the finish line, y’all. Thanks so much for joining us on this wild ride. We hope you’re feeling more prepared than ever to cast your ballot this November.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:38] \u003c/em>And if you don’t, you can always go back and listen to the entire Prop Fest series again at kqed.org/propfest. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:38] \u003c/em>And if you don’t, you can always go back and listen to the entire Prop Fest series again at kqed.org/propfest. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:48] \u003c/em>Do us a favor and send Prop Fest to one friend right now. Word of mouth really helps us grow our shows. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:48] \u003c/em>Do us a favor and send Prop Fest to one friend right now. Word of mouth really helps us grow our shows. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:57] \u003c/em>Prop Fest is made possible thanks to Katrina Schwartz Pauline Bartolone Anna Casalme Olivia Allen Price Gabriela Glick Christopher Beale, Alan Montecillo and me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:57] \u003c/em>Prop Fest is made possible thanks to Katrina Schwartz Pauline Bartolone Anna Casalme Olivia Allen Price Gabriela Glick Christopher Beale, Alan Montecillo and me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:11] \u003c/em>We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Springer, Jen Chien. Ethan Toven Lindsey. And everyone on Team KQED. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:11] \u003c/em>We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Springer, Jen Chien. Ethan Toven Lindsey. And everyone on Team KQED. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:20] \u003c/em>Our show is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Support for the Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:20] \u003c/em>Our show is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Support for the Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:42] \u003c/em>And I’m Olivia Allen Price. Good luck with your ballot. \u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Episode Transcript:\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:00] \u003c/em>In 1970, as California was building freeways and developing dams and levees, Governor Ronald Reagan signed the California Environmental Quality Act into law. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:10] \u003c/em>CEQA, as it’s known, requires public agencies to consider the environmental impact of big projects. How rivers could be impacted by new dams and levees, or how local marshland could face more noise pollution. It’s a way of saying, look before you leap, or in this case, build. But housing advocates have often taken issue with CEQa. Arguing that it’s been used to block or stall much needed development here in California. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:43] \u003c/em>Now, Prop 45 seeks to change the landmark statute by tightening the timeframe for the environmental review process. Those who oppose the proposition aren’t just worried about what it means for the environment, but also whether it can open the door to more data centers. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:02] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara, host of The Bay. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:06] \u003c/em>And I’m Olivia Ellen Price, host of Bay Curious, and you made it to the final edition of PropFest 2026. This has been a collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curios, and this is the 14th and final prop. Are you ready, Ericka? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:22] \u003c/em>I sure am, Olivia. Here’s how Prop 45 will read on your ballot. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:30] \u003c/em>Prop 45, modifies environmental review for certain projects. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:36] \u003c/em>Here to walk us through Proposition 45 is KQED’s climate reporter Laura Klivans. Hey Laura.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:43] \u003c/em>Hello \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:44] \u003c/em>So Laura, Prop 45 would overhaul the California Environmental Quality Act. First, what is the California environmental quality act, otherwise known as CEQA? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:58] \u003c/em>So CEQA is this major California environmental law, and it was passed in 1970 under then-Governor Reagan. And the goal was to require government agencies to study and share potential environmental impacts of public projects like dams and highways and power plants and to do what was possible to reduce or mitigate those impacts. Over time, there have been many lawsuits around it, and it is now applicable to not just public projects, but private ones. Proponents view this law as an essential environmental law for California to protect our environment and think about longer term consequences to building. Critics do not like CEQA because they say it offers people with special interests the opportunity to delay and block projects in the name of the environment. So therefore it’s been like very controversial. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:55] \u003c/em>Private projects as in… Maybe a new apartment building or a new housing complex?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:02] \u003c/em>Yeah \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:04] \u003c/em>So Prop 45 would make some tweaks to CEQA. How exactly could CEQA change under Prop 45? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:11] \u003c/em>So the proposition is saying let’s speed up the environmental reviews for certain projects that it calls essential. So those would be things like housing or clean energy, not including nuclear, hospitals, clinics, schools, fire, wildfire risk reductions, like things that sound really important, transportation, and here’s an interesting category, broadband access. We’ll come back to why that’s so interesting. So Prop 45 would put a timeline on CEQA review for these essential categories I mentioned. It would set a 365 day time limit on environmental reviews for these projects. It would require courts to rule on CEQA related lawsuits within 270 days. And then it also changes some other details. So like here’s an example of one, a government agency that’s overseeing a review. They would need to specify all the information that they’d like to get from the application, from the builder, at the time that it needs to be submitted, rather than going back to the builder again and again and saying, we need more info for this and more info for that. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:22] \u003c/em>Who put this on the ballot and why are we as voters being asked to potentially make some changes to CEQA?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:29] \u003c/em>So the California Chamber of Commerce has sponsored this proposition, and they represent businesses, they advocate for them, they lobby for them. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jennifer Barrera: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:38] \u003c/em>The CEQA law was well-intentioned, but we have seen, obviously, the law be abused and misused in order to block projects by groups who don’t want to see any development, don’t want to any growth here in California. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:50] \u003c/em>Jennifer Barrera is the CEO of the California Chamber of Commerce, and she is saying we have an issue with growth, nothing’s affordable here, and this would basically advance projects that they designated as essential more quickly and easily. It would streamline legal challenges, reduce frivolous lawsuits, things like that. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jennifer Barrera: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:10] \u003c/em>When we talk about delay, and I’ll keep going back to housing just because it is such an important point of our affordability crisis and a part of this ballot initiative, but when you delay ultimate housing, I mean that creates inequity in our population. That creates losers with regards to those who can’t afford and those who can’t afford. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:28] \u003c/em>Proponents say, you know, you’re still going to have environmental review, we’re just going to put like a shot clock on it, as they say. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:38] \u003c/em>So you mentioned the California Chamber of Commerce. Who else is in favor of this measure?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:45] \u003c/em>There are groups that represent places that need to build, like hospitals or some housing organizations and some building industries, like the workers. Also notably, Buffy Wicks, she’s a California Assembly member, and she is one of the people who championed change last year to CEQA. That has exempted housing that is already on developed areas from CEQA review. So that was a major reform that already happened last year. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:17] \u003c/em>We’ll have more on Prop 45 with KQED’s Laura Klivans, right after this break. By the way, did you know that KQED is funded almost entirely by everyday listeners just like you? Consider becoming a sustaining KQED member by going to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:46] \u003c/em>So you have some folks who say that these changes to CEQA are necessary in order to address this housing crisis that we’re in, in part. Who is coming out in opposition to this measure and what are their arguments?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:59] \u003c/em>There are a bunch of other folks who are against this, like environmental groups, environmental justice groups, health groups, unions that represent teachers and firefighters, for example, are against us. One major argument is that, hey, this is too broad. This is our landmark environmental regulation. Let’s keep it. And state Senator Catherine Blakespear represents northern San Diego and part of Orange County and has come out in opposition. She chairs the Senate Environmental Quality Committee.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sen. Catherine Blakespear: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:27] \u003c/em>It’s really important that California continue to be a bulwark against the backsliding and we continue to fight climate change and to protect our environment.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:36] \u003c/em>She’s saying it’s going to allow for more homes to be built in something called the wildland urban interface, which is like basically places that butt up against beautiful nature areas, but are therefore very fire prone. And so she and some other state legislators are saying this is a terrible idea. We don’t need to build more housing in those areas. And this would allow for that. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sen. Catherine Blakespear: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:01] \u003c/em>It really just goes way too far and creates these very big loopholes and changes our system of CEQA and our environmental review, which is our landmark environmental laws in California since the 1970s. And it is far, far too broad. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:16] \u003c/em>I think we all know that it takes a long time to build housing in California and that one of the main arguments for Prop 45 is the idea that we need to build more housing more quickly. What about pro-housing or YIMBY (Yes In My Backyard) groups? What do they think about this measure? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:35] \u003c/em>Yeah, so it’s mixed. There are some housing groups that support Proposition 45. And then, actually, interestingly, this one large group, California YMBY, YIMBY stands for ‘Yes in My Backyard,’ they have come out with no position on this. They are neutral. That’s because they see both reasons to support this measure and reasons to oppose it. And on the one hand, it could fast track sprawl, which is not something they support, so. Maybe it makes it easier to build a highway, makes it easy to build housing that is not in a dense or already populated area. On the other hand, it might make it easier to build clean energy and clean energy infrastructure, which is something that they would support. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:23] \u003c/em>So we’ve been talking about CEQA in the context of building more housing, but it of course applies to all kinds of projects in California. And when it comes to Prop 45, there’s actually one specific kind of project that has made its way into the debate and that’s data centers? Can you explain why data centers have become part of the conversation around Prop 45?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:48] \u003c/em>Yes, so people who support Prop 45 say this does not apply to data centers. And opponents, people who are saying no to this proposition, they say, oh, but it could. Look at the broadband access category. The language is broad enough that it could be construed to include data centers, Opponents are also saying, listen, the people who wrote this made carve-outs for what it doesn’t make exclusions for. There’s this huge category of transportation And it says in the language that it doesn’t include high-speed rail. There’s a category for clean energy. Also in the Language for Prop 45, it says that doesn’t including nuclear. So if this truly does not include data centers, wouldn’t the people who wrote this get ahead of that and write, this doesn’t included data centers in the language? And the people that wrote it are saying, well, we weren’t thinking of that because broadband access doesn’t includes data centers. That’s just as simple as that. So that is up in the air. And now data centers is such a wild issue now, and it’s really, we’ve seen it explode politically, that that has impacted this proposition. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:55] \u003c/em>Enough people are worried about it that they are, I don’t know, seeing data centers in Prop 45 and adding it to the debate, it sounds like. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:03] \u003c/em>Right. Right. And then this is super interesting. So pulling from the Public Policy Institute of California showed support among likely voters was at 73% in July and in September it is 49 percent. In that time, the data center conversation started happening. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:26] \u003c/em>Let’s talk about campaign spending here, Laura. What are we seeing on the pro-Prop 45 side in terms of spending? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:35] \u003c/em>There’s a lot of money. When I checked last, over $40 million. We see a lot of Silicon Valley tech people, Google executives, like the former CEO, Eric Schmidt, and more. We also see money coming in from the building trades. And then against, still some money there, $15 million. But this was interesting when I was looking at the money because one of the top donors is Wendy Schmidt, who is married to Eric Schmidt. And she has put $5 million in against Prop 45. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:06] \u003c/em>Laura, thank you so much. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laura Klivans: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:08] \u003c/em>Thank you for having me.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:13] \u003c/em>In a nutshell, a yes vote on this measure means environmental reviews can be expedited for certain projects. A no vote means projects would continue to use existing project review and court challenge procedures under CEQA. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:30] \u003c/em>We made it to the finish line, y’all. Thanks so much for joining us on this wild ride. We hope you’re feeling more prepared than ever to cast your ballot this November.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:38] \u003c/em>And if you don’t, you can always go back and listen to the entire Prop Fest series again at kqed.org/propfest. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:48] \u003c/em>Do us a favor and send Prop Fest to one friend right now. Word of mouth really helps us grow our shows. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:57] \u003c/em>Prop Fest is made possible thanks to Katrina Schwartz Pauline Bartolone Anna Casalme Olivia Allen Price Gabriela Glick Christopher Beale, Alan Montecillo and me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:11] \u003c/em>We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Springer, Jen Chien. Ethan Toven Lindsey. And everyone on Team KQED. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:20] \u003c/em>Our show is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Support for the Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:42] \u003c/em>And I’m Olivia Allen Price. Good luck with your ballot. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>There are about 2,000 community clinics providing health care here in California.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>These clinics typically serve patients who don’t have any other options. Low-income people or those who are under-insured often go to these clinics for things like vaccines, mental health, and social services.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>They’re also funded in part by our tax dollars. But one union says these clinics aren’t spending enough of their money on patients. And that’s where Proposition 44 comes in.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Prop 44 would force community health clinics to spend 90% of their revenue on health care services or face penalties from the state.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Will Prop 44 help make healthcare dollars go where they belong? Or could it lead these clinics to cut services or even shut down entirely?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That’s for you to decide.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>And I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And welcome back to Prop Fest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. Today, we’re walking you through Proposition 44. Here’s how it reads on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker: \u003c/strong>Prop 44 requires community health clinics spend 90% of revenue on program services.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Here to help us break this all down is KQED health correspondent, Lesley McClurg. Hey there, Lesley!\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Hello.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What exactly would Prop 44 change for these clinics?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The clinics would have to prove that they are spending 90% of their revenue, so they are tax-funded clinics, so they would have to prove they’re spending 90 percent of that money on health care services, so basically medical offerings for their patients. At the end of the day, the attorney general would decide on exactly what qualifies within that 90%. If the clinics don’t comply, they would face fines. Although the penalties that they would have to pay could be returned to them if they were able to hit that 90% quota spending target basically within five years.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Lesley, who put Proposition 44 on the ballot, and what is the problem that they say they’re trying to solve with Prop 44?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The proponents of Prop 44 are SEIU, United Health Care Workers West, which is the union that represents health care workers.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>I’d like to remind folks that community clinics were started with the mission of serving some of the folks in California that need these services the most.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>I spoke with Renee Saldana, the press secretary for the union, and she said the union is really trying to ensure that clinics are investing their money correctly.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>It’s essentially anything that would help patients receive care or the direct care itself. So this includes medical visits, lab tests and x-rays, preventative care, of course, like vaccines and screenings, mammograms, things like outreach, transportation, language interpretation…\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>They have found that some clinics are using their revenue poorly, maybe even wasting it on anything that the union says could be, say, unnecessary administrative costs. So they’re spending too much on running the clinic rather than putting that money towards patients. Maybe spending too much on fundraising. But the main thing that they’re pointing out is potentially executive compensation, so over bloated salaries for the top, for the people who are running these clinics.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>So I think a lot of Californians really understand how important these clinics are to our healthcare system and they wanna make sure that they are prioritizing patients by spending our public dollars where the dollars are needed most, which is directly on patient care and other mission-related services.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The California Legislative Analyst’s Office, which is a nonpartisan fiscal advisor, notes that these clinics currently spend, on average, about 80% of their revenue on healthcare services, although it does vary and depend on each individual clinic. But the yes on 44 or the union believes that that really should be 90% across the board.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And do they also mention, I mean, these cuts that we’ve seen to health care at the federal level as a reason also to pass this?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Absolutely. So you’ve got this H.R.1, which is the federal bill, it’s also been called, you know, the big, beautiful bill. But basically, the Trump administration is heavily cutting federal funding for medical care. And so these clinics are going to be hurting and working on a much tighter budget. And so the union is arguing that they need to ensure that these clinics are using their budgets as well as possible so that best care can reach patients. Since it’s a really hard time to ensure that everybody has the medical care that they need under these federal cuts.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>Again, all we want is that these clinics are able to stay open when these health care cuts from H.R.1 really hit California next year.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So you have SEIU, the union that represents many healthcare workers in favor of Prop 44. Any other groups in favor of this measure?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The only group that I’m aware of is the California Labor Federation is also in favor.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We’ll have more on Prop 44 right after this. By the way, did you know that KQED is funded almost entirely by listeners just like you? Join the thousands of everyday listeners who help make this work happen. Just go to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back. And we’re back talking about Prop 44 with KQED health correspondent, Lesley McClurg. Lesley, this measure has a long list of opponents actually, tell me a little bit more about who’s against Prop 44 and what their argument is?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>So it’s made up mostly of medical groups, although there are other groups in addition to the medical groups. But you’ve got the California Primary Care Association, the California Medical Association. You’ve got Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California. You’ve got the the California Hospital Association. And they are all worried that at the end of the day the clinics would fail to meet the spending threshold and that the non-compliance fees that these clinics would ultimately be forced to pay would end up leading to either significantly reduced services at these clinics or even force some of these clinics to close.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Shotwell: \u003c/strong>Health centers do a great job of managing those funds, getting high quality healthcare outcomes and this ballot measure would really erode our ability to do that.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>I spoke specifically with Mark Shotwell. He’s the CEO of Ritter Center. This is a nonprofit who serves a largely unhoused population in San Rafael. And he says about 30% of their costs under his… and this is his opinion, would not qualify as quote health care services.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Shotwell: \u003c/strong>Things like telehealth services, patient navigation, transportation to ensure that people get to their necessary medical appointments or translation services.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>He said these are wraparound services like education, housing, home health care. These are all services that he worries would not qualify as direct medical care, you know, offerings and that they would end up, the clinic, Ritter Clinic would end paying kind of precious dollars on penalties when they’re already operating on a really tight budget.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Shotwell: \u003c/strong>They’ve decided to focus on CEO or executive salaries and that somehow that’s a problem that we’re not having money go to the patients. It also doesn’t include things like human resources or accounting or IT. So these are all necessary services to run a health clinic. And we have the oversight of family members, boards, the state of California, the federal government. These are highly regulated environments to ensure that patients are getting the very best services, so it’s also unnecessary.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So then, Lesley, if Prop 44 actually passes, then 90% of the revenue at these clinics must be spent on healthcare services, as you said. But it seems like the yes and the no sides aren’t really on the same page about what exactly falls under the umbrella of healthcare services. You have Renee on the yes side who’s saying it covers anything related to patient care, but then you have Mark on the no side who says, that this would threaten really essential services at his clinic, so what exactly am I supposed to make of this as a voter?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Yeah, it’s not clear. The yes and no sides are telling me very different things about how this 90% would be defined. The LAO says that the state attorney general would be able to define in more detail which kinds of expenses would qualify. The proposition is not quite as simple as it looks on the ballot. You also have a background that I think is important to know about, which is that there has been pressure to unionize these clinics and some of these clinics have said no to that pressure. There’s an argument from the opponents that this bill is a push or kind of like a political pressure to be like, okay, we’re going to put this thing on the ballot, that’s not going to, that’s going to be really hard for you to meet, if you don’t unionize. Now the union denies that that is part of their agenda, but the opponents arguing that that could potentially be at play here and there has been a past, there’s a history here of SEIU, has filed ballot measures in the past for organizations that have resisted unionization. This includes a series of recent measures that would have placed new regulations on dialysis clinics. So that there is a history there of SEIU doing this. And again, they’re denying it in this moment, but potentially that’s also at play.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What’s going on with campaign spending on Prop 44 on both the yes and the no sides?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>According to CalMatters, who has been reporting on this, they note that SEIU has raised $16.9 million, and the opponents, all those different medical groups, et cetera, have raised about $37.5 million. So more than twice as much has been raised by the opponents.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well Lesley, I appreciate you for breaking this one down for us. Thank you so much.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>In a nutshell, a yes vote on this measure means certain private non-profit health care clinics would have to spend at least 90% of their revenue each year on providing health care services or face a fine. A no vote on the measure means this new requirement on health care clinic spending would not go into effect.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That’s it for our latest episode of PropFest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. You’re almost to the finish line.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>KQED.org/propfest is the place to return for all these PropFest breakdowns, and if this series is helping you, do us a favor and tell one friend about it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Word of mouth really helps our shows grow. PropFest is made possible thanks to Katrina Schwartz, Pauline Bartolone, Anna Casalme, Olivia Allen-Price:, Gabriela Glueck. Christopher Beale, Alan Montecillo.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra. We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Springer, Jen Chien, Ethan Toven-Lindsey and everyone on Team KQED.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Our show is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Support for The Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>And I’m Olivia Allen-Price:. Thanks for listening.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>These clinics typically serve patients who don’t have any other options. Low-income people or those who are under-insured often go to these clinics for things like vaccines, mental health, and social services.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>They’re also funded in part by our tax dollars. But one union says these clinics aren’t spending enough of their money on patients. And that’s where Proposition 44 comes in.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>They’re also funded in part by our tax dollars. But one union says these clinics aren’t spending enough of their money on patients. And that’s where Proposition 44 comes in.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Will Prop 44 help make healthcare dollars go where they belong? Or could it lead these clinics to cut services or even shut down entirely?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Will Prop 44 help make healthcare dollars go where they belong? Or could it lead these clinics to cut services or even shut down entirely?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That’s for you to decide.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And welcome back to Prop Fest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. Today, we’re walking you through Proposition 44. Here’s how it reads on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And welcome back to Prop Fest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. Today, we’re walking you through Proposition 44. Here’s how it reads on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker: \u003c/strong>Prop 44 requires community health clinics spend 90% of revenue on program services.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Here to help us break this all down is KQED health correspondent, Lesley McClurg. Hey there, Lesley!\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Here to help us break this all down is KQED health correspondent, Lesley McClurg. Hey there, Lesley!\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Hello.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Hello.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What exactly would Prop 44 change for these clinics?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What exactly would Prop 44 change for these clinics?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The clinics would have to prove that they are spending 90% of their revenue, so they are tax-funded clinics, so they would have to prove they’re spending 90 percent of that money on health care services, so basically medical offerings for their patients. At the end of the day, the attorney general would decide on exactly what qualifies within that 90%. If the clinics don’t comply, they would face fines. Although the penalties that they would have to pay could be returned to them if they were able to hit that 90% quota spending target basically within five years.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The clinics would have to prove that they are spending 90% of their revenue, so they are tax-funded clinics, so they would have to prove they’re spending 90 percent of that money on health care services, so basically medical offerings for their patients. At the end of the day, the attorney general would decide on exactly what qualifies within that 90%. If the clinics don’t comply, they would face fines. Although the penalties that they would have to pay could be returned to them if they were able to hit that 90% quota spending target basically within five years.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Lesley, who put Proposition 44 on the ballot, and what is the problem that they say they’re trying to solve with Prop 44?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Lesley, who put Proposition 44 on the ballot, and what is the problem that they say they’re trying to solve with Prop 44?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The proponents of Prop 44 are SEIU, United Health Care Workers West, which is the union that represents health care workers.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The proponents of Prop 44 are SEIU, United Health Care Workers West, which is the union that represents health care workers.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>I’d like to remind folks that community clinics were started with the mission of serving some of the folks in California that need these services the most.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>I’d like to remind folks that community clinics were started with the mission of serving some of the folks in California that need these services the most.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>I spoke with Renee Saldana, the press secretary for the union, and she said the union is really trying to ensure that clinics are investing their money correctly.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>I spoke with Renee Saldana, the press secretary for the union, and she said the union is really trying to ensure that clinics are investing their money correctly.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>It’s essentially anything that would help patients receive care or the direct care itself. So this includes medical visits, lab tests and x-rays, preventative care, of course, like vaccines and screenings, mammograms, things like outreach, transportation, language interpretation…\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>It’s essentially anything that would help patients receive care or the direct care itself. So this includes medical visits, lab tests and x-rays, preventative care, of course, like vaccines and screenings, mammograms, things like outreach, transportation, language interpretation…\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>They have found that some clinics are using their revenue poorly, maybe even wasting it on anything that the union says could be, say, unnecessary administrative costs. So they’re spending too much on running the clinic rather than putting that money towards patients. Maybe spending too much on fundraising. But the main thing that they’re pointing out is potentially executive compensation, so over bloated salaries for the top, for the people who are running these clinics.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>They have found that some clinics are using their revenue poorly, maybe even wasting it on anything that the union says could be, say, unnecessary administrative costs. So they’re spending too much on running the clinic rather than putting that money towards patients. Maybe spending too much on fundraising. But the main thing that they’re pointing out is potentially executive compensation, so over bloated salaries for the top, for the people who are running these clinics.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>So I think a lot of Californians really understand how important these clinics are to our healthcare system and they wanna make sure that they are prioritizing patients by spending our public dollars where the dollars are needed most, which is directly on patient care and other mission-related services.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>So I think a lot of Californians really understand how important these clinics are to our healthcare system and they wanna make sure that they are prioritizing patients by spending our public dollars where the dollars are needed most, which is directly on patient care and other mission-related services.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The California Legislative Analyst’s Office, which is a nonpartisan fiscal advisor, notes that these clinics currently spend, on average, about 80% of their revenue on healthcare services, although it does vary and depend on each individual clinic. But the yes on 44 or the union believes that that really should be 90% across the board.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The California Legislative Analyst’s Office, which is a nonpartisan fiscal advisor, notes that these clinics currently spend, on average, about 80% of their revenue on healthcare services, although it does vary and depend on each individual clinic. But the yes on 44 or the union believes that that really should be 90% across the board.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And do they also mention, I mean, these cuts that we’ve seen to health care at the federal level as a reason also to pass this?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And do they also mention, I mean, these cuts that we’ve seen to health care at the federal level as a reason also to pass this?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Absolutely. So you’ve got this H.R.1, which is the federal bill, it’s also been called, you know, the big, beautiful bill. But basically, the Trump administration is heavily cutting federal funding for medical care. And so these clinics are going to be hurting and working on a much tighter budget. And so the union is arguing that they need to ensure that these clinics are using their budgets as well as possible so that best care can reach patients. Since it’s a really hard time to ensure that everybody has the medical care that they need under these federal cuts.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Absolutely. So you’ve got this H.R.1, which is the federal bill, it’s also been called, you know, the big, beautiful bill. But basically, the Trump administration is heavily cutting federal funding for medical care. And so these clinics are going to be hurting and working on a much tighter budget. And so the union is arguing that they need to ensure that these clinics are using their budgets as well as possible so that best care can reach patients. Since it’s a really hard time to ensure that everybody has the medical care that they need under these federal cuts.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>Again, all we want is that these clinics are able to stay open when these health care cuts from H.R.1 really hit California next year.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>Again, all we want is that these clinics are able to stay open when these health care cuts from H.R.1 really hit California next year.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So you have SEIU, the union that represents many healthcare workers in favor of Prop 44. Any other groups in favor of this measure?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So you have SEIU, the union that represents many healthcare workers in favor of Prop 44. Any other groups in favor of this measure?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The only group that I’m aware of is the California Labor Federation is also in favor.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The only group that I’m aware of is the California Labor Federation is also in favor.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We’ll have more on Prop 44 right after this. By the way, did you know that KQED is funded almost entirely by listeners just like you? Join the thousands of everyday listeners who help make this work happen. Just go to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back. And we’re back talking about Prop 44 with KQED health correspondent, Lesley McClurg. Lesley, this measure has a long list of opponents actually, tell me a little bit more about who’s against Prop 44 and what their argument is?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We’ll have more on Prop 44 right after this. By the way, did you know that KQED is funded almost entirely by listeners just like you? Join the thousands of everyday listeners who help make this work happen. Just go to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back. And we’re back talking about Prop 44 with KQED health correspondent, Lesley McClurg. Lesley, this measure has a long list of opponents actually, tell me a little bit more about who’s against Prop 44 and what their argument is?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>So it’s made up mostly of medical groups, although there are other groups in addition to the medical groups. But you’ve got the California Primary Care Association, the California Medical Association. You’ve got Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California. You’ve got the the California Hospital Association. And they are all worried that at the end of the day the clinics would fail to meet the spending threshold and that the non-compliance fees that these clinics would ultimately be forced to pay would end up leading to either significantly reduced services at these clinics or even force some of these clinics to close.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>So it’s made up mostly of medical groups, although there are other groups in addition to the medical groups. But you’ve got the California Primary Care Association, the California Medical Association. You’ve got Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California. You’ve got the the California Hospital Association. And they are all worried that at the end of the day the clinics would fail to meet the spending threshold and that the non-compliance fees that these clinics would ultimately be forced to pay would end up leading to either significantly reduced services at these clinics or even force some of these clinics to close.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Shotwell: \u003c/strong>Health centers do a great job of managing those funds, getting high quality healthcare outcomes and this ballot measure would really erode our ability to do that.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Shotwell: \u003c/strong>Health centers do a great job of managing those funds, getting high quality healthcare outcomes and this ballot measure would really erode our ability to do that.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>I spoke specifically with Mark Shotwell. He’s the CEO of Ritter Center. This is a nonprofit who serves a largely unhoused population in San Rafael. And he says about 30% of their costs under his… and this is his opinion, would not qualify as quote health care services.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>I spoke specifically with Mark Shotwell. He’s the CEO of Ritter Center. This is a nonprofit who serves a largely unhoused population in San Rafael. And he says about 30% of their costs under his… and this is his opinion, would not qualify as quote health care services.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Shotwell: \u003c/strong>Things like telehealth services, patient navigation, transportation to ensure that people get to their necessary medical appointments or translation services.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Shotwell: \u003c/strong>Things like telehealth services, patient navigation, transportation to ensure that people get to their necessary medical appointments or translation services.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>He said these are wraparound services like education, housing, home health care. These are all services that he worries would not qualify as direct medical care, you know, offerings and that they would end up, the clinic, Ritter Clinic would end paying kind of precious dollars on penalties when they’re already operating on a really tight budget.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>He said these are wraparound services like education, housing, home health care. These are all services that he worries would not qualify as direct medical care, you know, offerings and that they would end up, the clinic, Ritter Clinic would end paying kind of precious dollars on penalties when they’re already operating on a really tight budget.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Shotwell: \u003c/strong>They’ve decided to focus on CEO or executive salaries and that somehow that’s a problem that we’re not having money go to the patients. It also doesn’t include things like human resources or accounting or IT. So these are all necessary services to run a health clinic. And we have the oversight of family members, boards, the state of California, the federal government. These are highly regulated environments to ensure that patients are getting the very best services, so it’s also unnecessary.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Shotwell: \u003c/strong>They’ve decided to focus on CEO or executive salaries and that somehow that’s a problem that we’re not having money go to the patients. It also doesn’t include things like human resources or accounting or IT. So these are all necessary services to run a health clinic. And we have the oversight of family members, boards, the state of California, the federal government. These are highly regulated environments to ensure that patients are getting the very best services, so it’s also unnecessary.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So then, Lesley, if Prop 44 actually passes, then 90% of the revenue at these clinics must be spent on healthcare services, as you said. But it seems like the yes and the no sides aren’t really on the same page about what exactly falls under the umbrella of healthcare services. You have Renee on the yes side who’s saying it covers anything related to patient care, but then you have Mark on the no side who says, that this would threaten really essential services at his clinic, so what exactly am I supposed to make of this as a voter?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So then, Lesley, if Prop 44 actually passes, then 90% of the revenue at these clinics must be spent on healthcare services, as you said. But it seems like the yes and the no sides aren’t really on the same page about what exactly falls under the umbrella of healthcare services. You have Renee on the yes side who’s saying it covers anything related to patient care, but then you have Mark on the no side who says, that this would threaten really essential services at his clinic, so what exactly am I supposed to make of this as a voter?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Yeah, it’s not clear. The yes and no sides are telling me very different things about how this 90% would be defined. The LAO says that the state attorney general would be able to define in more detail which kinds of expenses would qualify. The proposition is not quite as simple as it looks on the ballot. You also have a background that I think is important to know about, which is that there has been pressure to unionize these clinics and some of these clinics have said no to that pressure. There’s an argument from the opponents that this bill is a push or kind of like a political pressure to be like, okay, we’re going to put this thing on the ballot, that’s not going to, that’s going to be really hard for you to meet, if you don’t unionize. Now the union denies that that is part of their agenda, but the opponents arguing that that could potentially be at play here and there has been a past, there’s a history here of SEIU, has filed ballot measures in the past for organizations that have resisted unionization. This includes a series of recent measures that would have placed new regulations on dialysis clinics. So that there is a history there of SEIU doing this. And again, they’re denying it in this moment, but potentially that’s also at play.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Yeah, it’s not clear. The yes and no sides are telling me very different things about how this 90% would be defined. The LAO says that the state attorney general would be able to define in more detail which kinds of expenses would qualify. The proposition is not quite as simple as it looks on the ballot. You also have a background that I think is important to know about, which is that there has been pressure to unionize these clinics and some of these clinics have said no to that pressure. There’s an argument from the opponents that this bill is a push or kind of like a political pressure to be like, okay, we’re going to put this thing on the ballot, that’s not going to, that’s going to be really hard for you to meet, if you don’t unionize. Now the union denies that that is part of their agenda, but the opponents arguing that that could potentially be at play here and there has been a past, there’s a history here of SEIU, has filed ballot measures in the past for organizations that have resisted unionization. This includes a series of recent measures that would have placed new regulations on dialysis clinics. So that there is a history there of SEIU doing this. And again, they’re denying it in this moment, but potentially that’s also at play.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What’s going on with campaign spending on Prop 44 on both the yes and the no sides?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What’s going on with campaign spending on Prop 44 on both the yes and the no sides?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>According to CalMatters, who has been reporting on this, they note that SEIU has raised $16.9 million, and the opponents, all those different medical groups, et cetera, have raised about $37.5 million. So more than twice as much has been raised by the opponents.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>According to CalMatters, who has been reporting on this, they note that SEIU has raised $16.9 million, and the opponents, all those different medical groups, et cetera, have raised about $37.5 million. So more than twice as much has been raised by the opponents.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well Lesley, I appreciate you for breaking this one down for us. Thank you so much.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well Lesley, I appreciate you for breaking this one down for us. Thank you so much.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>In a nutshell, a yes vote on this measure means certain private non-profit health care clinics would have to spend at least 90% of their revenue each year on providing health care services or face a fine. A no vote on the measure means this new requirement on health care clinic spending would not go into effect.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>In a nutshell, a yes vote on this measure means certain private non-profit health care clinics would have to spend at least 90% of their revenue each year on providing health care services or face a fine. A no vote on the measure means this new requirement on health care clinic spending would not go into effect.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That’s it for our latest episode of PropFest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. You’re almost to the finish line.\u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That’s it for our latest episode of PropFest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. You’re almost to the finish line.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>KQED.org/propfest is the place to return for all these PropFest breakdowns, and if this series is helping you, do us a favor and tell one friend about it.\u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>KQED.org/propfest is the place to return for all these PropFest breakdowns, and if this series is helping you, do us a favor and tell one friend about it.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Word of mouth really helps our shows grow. PropFest is made possible thanks to Katrina Schwartz, Pauline Bartolone, Anna Casalme, Olivia Allen-Price:, Gabriela Glueck. Christopher Beale, Alan Montecillo.\u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Word of mouth really helps our shows grow. PropFest is made possible thanks to Katrina Schwartz, Pauline Bartolone, Anna Casalme, Olivia Allen-Price:, Gabriela Glueck. Christopher Beale, Alan Montecillo.\u003c/p>\n"
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"excerpt": "Prop 44 would require community health clinics to spend at least 90% of revenue on health care services.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>There are about 2,000 community clinics providing health care here in California.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>These clinics typically serve patients who don’t have any other options. Low-income people or those who are under-insured often go to these clinics for things like vaccines, mental health, and social services.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>They’re also funded in part by our tax dollars. But one union says these clinics aren’t spending enough of their money on patients. And that’s where Proposition 44 comes in.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Prop 44 would force community health clinics to spend 90% of their revenue on health care services or face penalties from the state.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Will Prop 44 help make healthcare dollars go where they belong? Or could it lead these clinics to cut services or even shut down entirely?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That’s for you to decide.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>And I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And welcome back to Prop Fest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. Today, we’re walking you through Proposition 44. Here’s how it reads on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Speaker: \u003c/strong>Prop 44 requires community health clinics spend 90% of revenue on program services.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Here to help us break this all down is KQED health correspondent, Lesley McClurg. Hey there, Lesley!\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Hello.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What exactly would Prop 44 change for these clinics?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The clinics would have to prove that they are spending 90% of their revenue, so they are tax-funded clinics, so they would have to prove they’re spending 90 percent of that money on health care services, so basically medical offerings for their patients. At the end of the day, the attorney general would decide on exactly what qualifies within that 90%. If the clinics don’t comply, they would face fines. Although the penalties that they would have to pay could be returned to them if they were able to hit that 90% quota spending target basically within five years.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Lesley, who put Proposition 44 on the ballot, and what is the problem that they say they’re trying to solve with Prop 44?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The proponents of Prop 44 are SEIU, United Health Care Workers West, which is the union that represents health care workers.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>I’d like to remind folks that community clinics were started with the mission of serving some of the folks in California that need these services the most.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>I spoke with Renee Saldana, the press secretary for the union, and she said the union is really trying to ensure that clinics are investing their money correctly.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>It’s essentially anything that would help patients receive care or the direct care itself. So this includes medical visits, lab tests and x-rays, preventative care, of course, like vaccines and screenings, mammograms, things like outreach, transportation, language interpretation…\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>They have found that some clinics are using their revenue poorly, maybe even wasting it on anything that the union says could be, say, unnecessary administrative costs. So they’re spending too much on running the clinic rather than putting that money towards patients. Maybe spending too much on fundraising. But the main thing that they’re pointing out is potentially executive compensation, so over bloated salaries for the top, for the people who are running these clinics.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>So I think a lot of Californians really understand how important these clinics are to our healthcare system and they wanna make sure that they are prioritizing patients by spending our public dollars where the dollars are needed most, which is directly on patient care and other mission-related services.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The California Legislative Analyst’s Office, which is a nonpartisan fiscal advisor, notes that these clinics currently spend, on average, about 80% of their revenue on healthcare services, although it does vary and depend on each individual clinic. But the yes on 44 or the union believes that that really should be 90% across the board.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And do they also mention, I mean, these cuts that we’ve seen to health care at the federal level as a reason also to pass this?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Absolutely. So you’ve got this H.R.1, which is the federal bill, it’s also been called, you know, the big, beautiful bill. But basically, the Trump administration is heavily cutting federal funding for medical care. And so these clinics are going to be hurting and working on a much tighter budget. And so the union is arguing that they need to ensure that these clinics are using their budgets as well as possible so that best care can reach patients. Since it’s a really hard time to ensure that everybody has the medical care that they need under these federal cuts.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Renee Saldana: \u003c/strong>Again, all we want is that these clinics are able to stay open when these health care cuts from H.R.1 really hit California next year.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So you have SEIU, the union that represents many healthcare workers in favor of Prop 44. Any other groups in favor of this measure?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>The only group that I’m aware of is the California Labor Federation is also in favor.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We’ll have more on Prop 44 right after this. By the way, did you know that KQED is funded almost entirely by listeners just like you? Join the thousands of everyday listeners who help make this work happen. Just go to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back. And we’re back talking about Prop 44 with KQED health correspondent, Lesley McClurg. Lesley, this measure has a long list of opponents actually, tell me a little bit more about who’s against Prop 44 and what their argument is?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>So it’s made up mostly of medical groups, although there are other groups in addition to the medical groups. But you’ve got the California Primary Care Association, the California Medical Association. You’ve got Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California. You’ve got the the California Hospital Association. And they are all worried that at the end of the day the clinics would fail to meet the spending threshold and that the non-compliance fees that these clinics would ultimately be forced to pay would end up leading to either significantly reduced services at these clinics or even force some of these clinics to close.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Shotwell: \u003c/strong>Health centers do a great job of managing those funds, getting high quality healthcare outcomes and this ballot measure would really erode our ability to do that.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>I spoke specifically with Mark Shotwell. He’s the CEO of Ritter Center. This is a nonprofit who serves a largely unhoused population in San Rafael. And he says about 30% of their costs under his… and this is his opinion, would not qualify as quote health care services.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Shotwell: \u003c/strong>Things like telehealth services, patient navigation, transportation to ensure that people get to their necessary medical appointments or translation services.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>He said these are wraparound services like education, housing, home health care. These are all services that he worries would not qualify as direct medical care, you know, offerings and that they would end up, the clinic, Ritter Clinic would end paying kind of precious dollars on penalties when they’re already operating on a really tight budget.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Shotwell: \u003c/strong>They’ve decided to focus on CEO or executive salaries and that somehow that’s a problem that we’re not having money go to the patients. It also doesn’t include things like human resources or accounting or IT. So these are all necessary services to run a health clinic. And we have the oversight of family members, boards, the state of California, the federal government. These are highly regulated environments to ensure that patients are getting the very best services, so it’s also unnecessary.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So then, Lesley, if Prop 44 actually passes, then 90% of the revenue at these clinics must be spent on healthcare services, as you said. But it seems like the yes and the no sides aren’t really on the same page about what exactly falls under the umbrella of healthcare services. You have Renee on the yes side who’s saying it covers anything related to patient care, but then you have Mark on the no side who says, that this would threaten really essential services at his clinic, so what exactly am I supposed to make of this as a voter?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Yeah, it’s not clear. The yes and no sides are telling me very different things about how this 90% would be defined. The LAO says that the state attorney general would be able to define in more detail which kinds of expenses would qualify. The proposition is not quite as simple as it looks on the ballot. You also have a background that I think is important to know about, which is that there has been pressure to unionize these clinics and some of these clinics have said no to that pressure. There’s an argument from the opponents that this bill is a push or kind of like a political pressure to be like, okay, we’re going to put this thing on the ballot, that’s not going to, that’s going to be really hard for you to meet, if you don’t unionize. Now the union denies that that is part of their agenda, but the opponents arguing that that could potentially be at play here and there has been a past, there’s a history here of SEIU, has filed ballot measures in the past for organizations that have resisted unionization. This includes a series of recent measures that would have placed new regulations on dialysis clinics. So that there is a history there of SEIU doing this. And again, they’re denying it in this moment, but potentially that’s also at play.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What’s going on with campaign spending on Prop 44 on both the yes and the no sides?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>According to CalMatters, who has been reporting on this, they note that SEIU has raised $16.9 million, and the opponents, all those different medical groups, et cetera, have raised about $37.5 million. So more than twice as much has been raised by the opponents.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well Lesley, I appreciate you for breaking this one down for us. Thank you so much.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>In a nutshell, a yes vote on this measure means certain private non-profit health care clinics would have to spend at least 90% of their revenue each year on providing health care services or face a fine. A no vote on the measure means this new requirement on health care clinic spending would not go into effect.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That’s it for our latest episode of PropFest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. You’re almost to the finish line.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>KQED.org/propfest is the place to return for all these PropFest breakdowns, and if this series is helping you, do us a favor and tell one friend about it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Word of mouth really helps our shows grow. PropFest is made possible thanks to Katrina Schwartz, Pauline Bartolone, Anna Casalme, Olivia Allen-Price:, Gabriela Glueck. Christopher Beale, Alan Montecillo.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra. We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Springer, Jen Chien, Ethan Toven-Lindsey and everyone on Team KQED.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Our show is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Support for The Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. 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"content": "\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:00] How much support do you think something should have to pass? 50% plus one? A simple majority? Or much more, like two-thirds in favor?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:11] Now in California, certain tax measures only require a simple majority of yes votes, while others require more.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:20] And that all depends on how the tax got on the ballot in the first place.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:26] If a special tax put on a ballot by citizens through signature gathering, it only needs a simple majority to pass. A special tax is a tax for a specific purpose, like policing, housing, or homeless services.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:41] But Proposition 43 would raise that threshold and require more support for special tax measures, even if citizens put it on the ballot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:52] I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:55] And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:58] Welcome to Prop Fest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. We’re back at it again with another prop breakdown to get you prepped to vote with confidence this November.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:09] Today, we’re walking you through Proposition 43. Here’s how it reads on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover \u003c/strong>[00:01:14] Prop 43 limits voters’ ability to raise revenues for local government services.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:24] Here to break down Prop 43 for us is KQED’s politics and government correspondent, Guy Marzorati.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:30] Hey.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:30] Guy. Hey. Guy, let’s just dive in here. What is Prop 43 all about?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:35] Yeah, so Proposition 43 is all about raising the voter threshold for citizen initiatives to pass at the local level. So what does that mean? If there is a ballot measure placed on the ballot through citizens gathering signatures, this would require that measure to get two thirds support. So super majority support. If the tax measure is asking voters to raise taxes for a specific issue. And what this measure is in response to. Is what we’ve seen over the last decade where through a series of court decisions, it’s become easier to pass taxes on the local level if citizens through the signature process are bringing a tax proposal to the ballot instead of having elected officials place taxes on a ballot directly.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:21] And what’s the difference between a general tax and a special tax?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:02:25] So a general tax is a tax that could go fund anything. It goes into the city or county’s general fund and elected officials can decide how to spend it however they want. A special tax says this money, if the tax passes, has to go to this specific thing. So maybe it has to build new housing or maybe it had to go fund police and fire. But there’s a specific written description of what the tax would go to that really governs how it’s used. So again, special taxes, money that’s going towards a specific thing, if those are placed on the ballot by elected officials, they require a two thirds vote. And that is how it used to be for any special tax for a long time, until about 2017 when there was a court decision that said, actually, if voters gather signatures and put a special tax on the ballot, it only requires a majority vote. What Proposition 43 does is return it to how it used to be where any special tax that’s on the ballot locally will require a two-thirds support.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:31] And why is there a difference there?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:03:34] Yeah, so this was really just a court interpretation of the law that had been on the books. Proposition 13, which is passed by California voters in the late 70s, said that these special taxes placed on the ballot by local government needed a two thirds vote to pass. And what the court questioned was whether the word government actually applied to the entire citizenry. So folks who are collecting signatures to put things on the They said, well, that doesn’t count as government putting it on the ballot. So that’s when you started to see the difference and you started see some real effects even here in the Bay Area. Look at Proposition C, for example, in San Francisco, 2018. This was a really high profile campaign around raising business taxes specifically to fund homelessness. Now, this was a special tax. The money that was collected had to go towards homelessness services, but it was put on the ballot through the signature process. And as a result, it was able to pass, even though the measure did not get two-thirds support, it got just over 60% support, but it able to take effect and bringing a lot of money to the city. For homelessness services. You even see it on the ballot in the Bay Area this year when voters are considering this region-wide transportation measure that’s only gonna require a majority vote to raise the sales tax to fund to fund BART, to fund Muni, Caltrain, because it was put on the ballet by a group of citizen signatures.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:05:06] That’s interesting. So whatever happens with Prop 43 has the potential to change how we vote on these kinds of measures you were just talking about.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:05:14] Exactly. Now it wouldn’t affect anything that’s on the ballot this year.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:05:18] Mm-hmm\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:05:19] But if Prop 43 passes, those could be kind of the last of their kind and going forward, we would end up in a situation where those kind of campaigns who are asking for tax increases for very specific purposes would need a two-thirds support.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:05:39] I mean, obviously those are big issues and big measures facing us here in the Bay Area. I mean is this push for a super majority vote on tax measures like this a new idea?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:05:53] No, this is not a new idea. It’s actually something that has been pushed by anti-tax groups ever since those decisions following 2017. And these groups, the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association, most notably, have argued that the courts betrayed the purpose of Prop 13, that they went and created this kind of loophole that allowed these local tax increases with a majority vote when that was never meant to be the purpose, you know, behind this provision in Prop 13.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:26] You mentioned earlier the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association coming out for this, I mean I feel like that’s a name that I just hear often, but I mean who are they exactly and how might California voters sort of make sense of who this association is and what else they’ve been responsible for?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:06:45] Yeah, so the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association, probably the most notable group in support of Proposition 43, and that goes back to their name, Howard Jarves. He was the proponent of Prop 13, the measure that limited property taxes and other taxes in the late 70s.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover\u003c/strong>[00:07:02] A thunderous response for Howard Jarvis, the 75-year-old millionaire who’s been campaigning for 15 years against taxes. This time Jarvis has done it, succeeded with America’s first tax revolution since T was tipped into Boston Harbor.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:07:18] And this is a group that ever since has been committed to reducing taxes in California, and they see Prop 43 as the next important step to do that.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Howard Jarvis \u003c/strong>[00:07:28] We have proven that here in California that we, the people, not the politicians, are still the boss.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:07:38] So, you know, you have those anti-tax groups who have been pushing against this and now they hope to change it with Proposition 43.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:07:52] We’ll have more on Proposition 43 right after this break. By the way, if you appreciate the work we’re doing here on PropFest, consider becoming a KQED sustaining member. Just go to donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:08:12] Well, let’s talk about the politics of this a little bit more. I mean, how did Prop 43 even get on the ballot in the first place? Who’s really behind it?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:08:24] The way this got on the ballot is kind of a long and winding road, but I’ll start at the end. This measure was placed on the ballot by the state legislature in a bill written by Democratic Assembly member Buffy Wicks from the East Bay.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Buffy Wicks \u003c/strong>[00:08:41] Thank you, Mr. Speaker and members, I rise to present ACA 22.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:08:44] Now the twist to this is that Buffy Wicks opposes this. She opposes the measure that she wrote to get this on the ballot. And the reason for that is that the measure she wrote was really a way to get anti-tax groups to remove a different proposal that they had already qualified for the ballot\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:04] Okay, what was the original measure that got taken off?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:09:08] You had anti-tax groups like the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association team up with developers and real estate interests to qualify a measure for the ballot earlier this year. And that measure both would have made these changes to the two-thirds requirements for local taxes. They also would have limited real estate transfer taxes, which are a tax that’s assessed when a real estate sale is made. So when a building is sold, when a home is sold in many cases. Local cities and counties apply transfer taxes on really expensive real estate sales. And developers have said this has gotten out of hand and it’s actually hurting development in the state. So the measure that they qualified both would have made this change on local taxes. It also would have capped real estate transfer taxes and it would have gone back and retroactively eliminated many real estate transferred taxes. And Jon Coupal, who’s president of the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association. Talked about why his group thinks this is important in an interview on KQED’s political breakdown.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jon Coupal \u003c/strong>[00:10:12] We had a very expressed prohibition in the state constitution against real estate transfer taxes. And whenever the courts create a loophole, we have to come back and shut the door.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:10:24] Now this was seen by opponents as a really bad result for local governments, not only because it would have limited the ability to raise taxes going forward, but also cities rely on those transfer taxes. So there was an effort to try to negotiate and get this measure off the ballot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Buffy Wicks \u003c/strong>[00:10:41] Politics is about choices and we often must navigate challenging decisions. Big picture, the vote today protects vital resources for our local communities and it removes the greatest threat to our cities and their fiscal health which is the Taxpayer Protection Act.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:10:56] So Buffy Wicks, in trying to craft this deal, basically wrote the measure that they committed to keeping on the ballot in exchange for getting the harsher limits on transfer taxes off of it. So she wrote it, it passed the legislature, it got placed on the ballet, and then she immediately made clear, I do not support this idea. This was just the only way I could get a proposal that I viewed as worse off of the ballot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:24] Who else is coming out for prop 43?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:11:27] Yeah, so in addition to the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association, we also have broad support across the Republican landscape in California. The California Republican Party supports Proposition 43. A bunch of other anti-tax groups also have jumped on board. And so you have kind of seen a partisan split in support and opposition to 43.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:50] Who else is coming out against Prop 43?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:11:54] So we’ve seen the California Democratic Party oppose Proposition 43 and also a lot of groups with ties to local government, which is no surprise. They feel like Prop 43 is gonna make it harder to get the revenue needed to run local governments. So for example, the California State Association of Counties, which represents county governments across the state and SCIU California, which a union that represents a lot local government employees. Who potentially could stand to lose if it’s harder for governments to raise revenue in the future.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:12:24] Guy, what is spending looking like for Proposition 43?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:12:29] So we’re seeing spending in support on paper far more than spending in opposition. Over $14 million spent in support of this. I should just say though that a lot of that money was spent before this idea actually made it onto the ballot. So back when the measure looked a lot different and it had the provisions around transfer taxes, we haven’t seen, for example, big spenders on this like the California Business Roundtable who poured in more than $9 million in support of this earlier in the year. They haven’t continued to spend after this final measure was on the ballot. So it’s unclear whether that big spending gap is actually gonna persist in practice through November.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:12] This one is this a little bit of a doozy. So I guess for voters, any advice as they just try and make sense of this particular ballot measure?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:13:23] Yeah, there’s definitely a lot of kind of twists and turns and complications into how this got onto the ballot. But I guess just to break down the arguments, supporters of prop 43 say if you want to tax residents for specific needs, there should be a broad support for that idea. It should be a two thirds support. If you’re going to raise taxes for a very earmarked cause, whether that be homelessness, public safety, whatever it is, it should be broad support behind it. And they want that two thirds requirement. On those local taxes. Opponents say this is not the time to make it harder for cities, for counties, for local governments to get revenue. A lot of cities and counties are already struggling with their budget. And by passing Proposition 43, it would be harder for citizens to bring tax measures on the ballot to bring more money into those local government coffers.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:00] How much support do you think something should have to pass? 50% plus one? A simple majority? Or much more, like two-thirds in favor?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:00] How much support do you think something should have to pass? 50% plus one? A simple majority? Or much more, like two-thirds in favor?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:11] Now in California, certain tax measures only require a simple majority of yes votes, while others require more.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:11] Now in California, certain tax measures only require a simple majority of yes votes, while others require more.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:20] And that all depends on how the tax got on the ballot in the first place.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:20] And that all depends on how the tax got on the ballot in the first place.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:26] If a special tax put on a ballot by citizens through signature gathering, it only needs a simple majority to pass. A special tax is a tax for a specific purpose, like policing, housing, or homeless services.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:26] If a special tax put on a ballot by citizens through signature gathering, it only needs a simple majority to pass. A special tax is a tax for a specific purpose, like policing, housing, or homeless services.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:41] But Proposition 43 would raise that threshold and require more support for special tax measures, even if citizens put it on the ballot.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:41] But Proposition 43 would raise that threshold and require more support for special tax measures, even if citizens put it on the ballot.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:52] I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:52] I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:55] And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:55] And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:58] Welcome to Prop Fest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. We’re back at it again with another prop breakdown to get you prepped to vote with confidence this November.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:58] Welcome to Prop Fest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. We’re back at it again with another prop breakdown to get you prepped to vote with confidence this November.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:09] Today, we’re walking you through Proposition 43. Here’s how it reads on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:09] Today, we’re walking you through Proposition 43. Here’s how it reads on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover \u003c/strong>[00:01:14] Prop 43 limits voters’ ability to raise revenues for local government services.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover \u003c/strong>[00:01:14] Prop 43 limits voters’ ability to raise revenues for local government services.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:24] Here to break down Prop 43 for us is KQED’s politics and government correspondent, Guy Marzorati.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:24] Here to break down Prop 43 for us is KQED’s politics and government correspondent, Guy Marzorati.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:30] Hey.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:30] Guy. Hey. Guy, let’s just dive in here. What is Prop 43 all about?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:30] Guy. Hey. Guy, let’s just dive in here. What is Prop 43 all about?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:35] Yeah, so Proposition 43 is all about raising the voter threshold for citizen initiatives to pass at the local level. So what does that mean? If there is a ballot measure placed on the ballot through citizens gathering signatures, this would require that measure to get two thirds support. So super majority support. If the tax measure is asking voters to raise taxes for a specific issue. And what this measure is in response to. Is what we’ve seen over the last decade where through a series of court decisions, it’s become easier to pass taxes on the local level if citizens through the signature process are bringing a tax proposal to the ballot instead of having elected officials place taxes on a ballot directly.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:35] Yeah, so Proposition 43 is all about raising the voter threshold for citizen initiatives to pass at the local level. So what does that mean? If there is a ballot measure placed on the ballot through citizens gathering signatures, this would require that measure to get two thirds support. So super majority support. If the tax measure is asking voters to raise taxes for a specific issue. And what this measure is in response to. Is what we’ve seen over the last decade where through a series of court decisions, it’s become easier to pass taxes on the local level if citizens through the signature process are bringing a tax proposal to the ballot instead of having elected officials place taxes on a ballot directly.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:21] And what’s the difference between a general tax and a special tax?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:21] And what’s the difference between a general tax and a special tax?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:02:25] So a general tax is a tax that could go fund anything. It goes into the city or county’s general fund and elected officials can decide how to spend it however they want. A special tax says this money, if the tax passes, has to go to this specific thing. So maybe it has to build new housing or maybe it had to go fund police and fire. But there’s a specific written description of what the tax would go to that really governs how it’s used. So again, special taxes, money that’s going towards a specific thing, if those are placed on the ballot by elected officials, they require a two thirds vote. And that is how it used to be for any special tax for a long time, until about 2017 when there was a court decision that said, actually, if voters gather signatures and put a special tax on the ballot, it only requires a majority vote. What Proposition 43 does is return it to how it used to be where any special tax that’s on the ballot locally will require a two-thirds support.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:02:25] So a general tax is a tax that could go fund anything. It goes into the city or county’s general fund and elected officials can decide how to spend it however they want. A special tax says this money, if the tax passes, has to go to this specific thing. So maybe it has to build new housing or maybe it had to go fund police and fire. But there’s a specific written description of what the tax would go to that really governs how it’s used. So again, special taxes, money that’s going towards a specific thing, if those are placed on the ballot by elected officials, they require a two thirds vote. And that is how it used to be for any special tax for a long time, until about 2017 when there was a court decision that said, actually, if voters gather signatures and put a special tax on the ballot, it only requires a majority vote. What Proposition 43 does is return it to how it used to be where any special tax that’s on the ballot locally will require a two-thirds support.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:31] And why is there a difference there?\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:03:34] Yeah, so this was really just a court interpretation of the law that had been on the books. Proposition 13, which is passed by California voters in the late 70s, said that these special taxes placed on the ballot by local government needed a two thirds vote to pass. And what the court questioned was whether the word government actually applied to the entire citizenry. So folks who are collecting signatures to put things on the They said, well, that doesn’t count as government putting it on the ballot. So that’s when you started to see the difference and you started see some real effects even here in the Bay Area. Look at Proposition C, for example, in San Francisco, 2018. This was a really high profile campaign around raising business taxes specifically to fund homelessness. Now, this was a special tax. The money that was collected had to go towards homelessness services, but it was put on the ballot through the signature process. And as a result, it was able to pass, even though the measure did not get two-thirds support, it got just over 60% support, but it able to take effect and bringing a lot of money to the city. For homelessness services. You even see it on the ballot in the Bay Area this year when voters are considering this region-wide transportation measure that’s only gonna require a majority vote to raise the sales tax to fund to fund BART, to fund Muni, Caltrain, because it was put on the ballet by a group of citizen signatures.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:03:34] Yeah, so this was really just a court interpretation of the law that had been on the books. Proposition 13, which is passed by California voters in the late 70s, said that these special taxes placed on the ballot by local government needed a two thirds vote to pass. And what the court questioned was whether the word government actually applied to the entire citizenry. So folks who are collecting signatures to put things on the They said, well, that doesn’t count as government putting it on the ballot. So that’s when you started to see the difference and you started see some real effects even here in the Bay Area. Look at Proposition C, for example, in San Francisco, 2018. This was a really high profile campaign around raising business taxes specifically to fund homelessness. Now, this was a special tax. The money that was collected had to go towards homelessness services, but it was put on the ballot through the signature process. And as a result, it was able to pass, even though the measure did not get two-thirds support, it got just over 60% support, but it able to take effect and bringing a lot of money to the city. For homelessness services. You even see it on the ballot in the Bay Area this year when voters are considering this region-wide transportation measure that’s only gonna require a majority vote to raise the sales tax to fund to fund BART, to fund Muni, Caltrain, because it was put on the ballet by a group of citizen signatures.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:05:06] That’s interesting. So whatever happens with Prop 43 has the potential to change how we vote on these kinds of measures you were just talking about.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:05:06] That’s interesting. So whatever happens with Prop 43 has the potential to change how we vote on these kinds of measures you were just talking about.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:05:14] Exactly. Now it wouldn’t affect anything that’s on the ballot this year.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:05:14] Exactly. Now it wouldn’t affect anything that’s on the ballot this year.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:05:18] Mm-hmm\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:05:19] But if Prop 43 passes, those could be kind of the last of their kind and going forward, we would end up in a situation where those kind of campaigns who are asking for tax increases for very specific purposes would need a two-thirds support.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:05:19] But if Prop 43 passes, those could be kind of the last of their kind and going forward, we would end up in a situation where those kind of campaigns who are asking for tax increases for very specific purposes would need a two-thirds support.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:05:39] I mean, obviously those are big issues and big measures facing us here in the Bay Area. I mean is this push for a super majority vote on tax measures like this a new idea?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:05:39] I mean, obviously those are big issues and big measures facing us here in the Bay Area. I mean is this push for a super majority vote on tax measures like this a new idea?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:05:53] No, this is not a new idea. It’s actually something that has been pushed by anti-tax groups ever since those decisions following 2017. And these groups, the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association, most notably, have argued that the courts betrayed the purpose of Prop 13, that they went and created this kind of loophole that allowed these local tax increases with a majority vote when that was never meant to be the purpose, you know, behind this provision in Prop 13.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:05:53] No, this is not a new idea. It’s actually something that has been pushed by anti-tax groups ever since those decisions following 2017. And these groups, the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association, most notably, have argued that the courts betrayed the purpose of Prop 13, that they went and created this kind of loophole that allowed these local tax increases with a majority vote when that was never meant to be the purpose, you know, behind this provision in Prop 13.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:26] You mentioned earlier the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association coming out for this, I mean I feel like that’s a name that I just hear often, but I mean who are they exactly and how might California voters sort of make sense of who this association is and what else they’ve been responsible for?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:26] You mentioned earlier the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association coming out for this, I mean I feel like that’s a name that I just hear often, but I mean who are they exactly and how might California voters sort of make sense of who this association is and what else they’ve been responsible for?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:06:45] Yeah, so the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association, probably the most notable group in support of Proposition 43, and that goes back to their name, Howard Jarves. He was the proponent of Prop 13, the measure that limited property taxes and other taxes in the late 70s.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:06:45] Yeah, so the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association, probably the most notable group in support of Proposition 43, and that goes back to their name, Howard Jarves. He was the proponent of Prop 13, the measure that limited property taxes and other taxes in the late 70s.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover\u003c/strong>[00:07:02] A thunderous response for Howard Jarvis, the 75-year-old millionaire who’s been campaigning for 15 years against taxes. This time Jarvis has done it, succeeded with America’s first tax revolution since T was tipped into Boston Harbor.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover\u003c/strong>[00:07:02] A thunderous response for Howard Jarvis, the 75-year-old millionaire who’s been campaigning for 15 years against taxes. This time Jarvis has done it, succeeded with America’s first tax revolution since T was tipped into Boston Harbor.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:07:18] And this is a group that ever since has been committed to reducing taxes in California, and they see Prop 43 as the next important step to do that.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:07:18] And this is a group that ever since has been committed to reducing taxes in California, and they see Prop 43 as the next important step to do that.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Howard Jarvis \u003c/strong>[00:07:28] We have proven that here in California that we, the people, not the politicians, are still the boss.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Howard Jarvis \u003c/strong>[00:07:28] We have proven that here in California that we, the people, not the politicians, are still the boss.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:07:38] So, you know, you have those anti-tax groups who have been pushing against this and now they hope to change it with Proposition 43.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:07:38] So, you know, you have those anti-tax groups who have been pushing against this and now they hope to change it with Proposition 43.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:07:52] We’ll have more on Proposition 43 right after this break. By the way, if you appreciate the work we’re doing here on PropFest, consider becoming a KQED sustaining member. Just go to donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:07:52] We’ll have more on Proposition 43 right after this break. By the way, if you appreciate the work we’re doing here on PropFest, consider becoming a KQED sustaining member. Just go to donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:08:12] Well, let’s talk about the politics of this a little bit more. I mean, how did Prop 43 even get on the ballot in the first place? Who’s really behind it?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:08:12] Well, let’s talk about the politics of this a little bit more. I mean, how did Prop 43 even get on the ballot in the first place? Who’s really behind it?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:08:24] The way this got on the ballot is kind of a long and winding road, but I’ll start at the end. This measure was placed on the ballot by the state legislature in a bill written by Democratic Assembly member Buffy Wicks from the East Bay.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:08:24] The way this got on the ballot is kind of a long and winding road, but I’ll start at the end. This measure was placed on the ballot by the state legislature in a bill written by Democratic Assembly member Buffy Wicks from the East Bay.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Buffy Wicks \u003c/strong>[00:08:41] Thank you, Mr. Speaker and members, I rise to present ACA 22.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Buffy Wicks \u003c/strong>[00:08:41] Thank you, Mr. Speaker and members, I rise to present ACA 22.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:08:44] Now the twist to this is that Buffy Wicks opposes this. She opposes the measure that she wrote to get this on the ballot. And the reason for that is that the measure she wrote was really a way to get anti-tax groups to remove a different proposal that they had already qualified for the ballot\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:08:44] Now the twist to this is that Buffy Wicks opposes this. She opposes the measure that she wrote to get this on the ballot. And the reason for that is that the measure she wrote was really a way to get anti-tax groups to remove a different proposal that they had already qualified for the ballot\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:04] Okay, what was the original measure that got taken off?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:04] Okay, what was the original measure that got taken off?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:09:08] You had anti-tax groups like the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association team up with developers and real estate interests to qualify a measure for the ballot earlier this year. And that measure both would have made these changes to the two-thirds requirements for local taxes. They also would have limited real estate transfer taxes, which are a tax that’s assessed when a real estate sale is made. So when a building is sold, when a home is sold in many cases. Local cities and counties apply transfer taxes on really expensive real estate sales. And developers have said this has gotten out of hand and it’s actually hurting development in the state. So the measure that they qualified both would have made this change on local taxes. It also would have capped real estate transfer taxes and it would have gone back and retroactively eliminated many real estate transferred taxes. And Jon Coupal, who’s president of the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association. Talked about why his group thinks this is important in an interview on KQED’s political breakdown.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:09:08] You had anti-tax groups like the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association team up with developers and real estate interests to qualify a measure for the ballot earlier this year. And that measure both would have made these changes to the two-thirds requirements for local taxes. They also would have limited real estate transfer taxes, which are a tax that’s assessed when a real estate sale is made. So when a building is sold, when a home is sold in many cases. Local cities and counties apply transfer taxes on really expensive real estate sales. And developers have said this has gotten out of hand and it’s actually hurting development in the state. So the measure that they qualified both would have made this change on local taxes. It also would have capped real estate transfer taxes and it would have gone back and retroactively eliminated many real estate transferred taxes. And Jon Coupal, who’s president of the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association. Talked about why his group thinks this is important in an interview on KQED’s political breakdown.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jon Coupal \u003c/strong>[00:10:12] We had a very expressed prohibition in the state constitution against real estate transfer taxes. And whenever the courts create a loophole, we have to come back and shut the door.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jon Coupal \u003c/strong>[00:10:12] We had a very expressed prohibition in the state constitution against real estate transfer taxes. And whenever the courts create a loophole, we have to come back and shut the door.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:10:24] Now this was seen by opponents as a really bad result for local governments, not only because it would have limited the ability to raise taxes going forward, but also cities rely on those transfer taxes. So there was an effort to try to negotiate and get this measure off the ballot.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:10:24] Now this was seen by opponents as a really bad result for local governments, not only because it would have limited the ability to raise taxes going forward, but also cities rely on those transfer taxes. So there was an effort to try to negotiate and get this measure off the ballot.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Buffy Wicks \u003c/strong>[00:10:41] Politics is about choices and we often must navigate challenging decisions. Big picture, the vote today protects vital resources for our local communities and it removes the greatest threat to our cities and their fiscal health which is the Taxpayer Protection Act.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Buffy Wicks \u003c/strong>[00:10:41] Politics is about choices and we often must navigate challenging decisions. Big picture, the vote today protects vital resources for our local communities and it removes the greatest threat to our cities and their fiscal health which is the Taxpayer Protection Act.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:10:56] So Buffy Wicks, in trying to craft this deal, basically wrote the measure that they committed to keeping on the ballot in exchange for getting the harsher limits on transfer taxes off of it. So she wrote it, it passed the legislature, it got placed on the ballet, and then she immediately made clear, I do not support this idea. This was just the only way I could get a proposal that I viewed as worse off of the ballot.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:10:56] So Buffy Wicks, in trying to craft this deal, basically wrote the measure that they committed to keeping on the ballot in exchange for getting the harsher limits on transfer taxes off of it. So she wrote it, it passed the legislature, it got placed on the ballet, and then she immediately made clear, I do not support this idea. This was just the only way I could get a proposal that I viewed as worse off of the ballot.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:24] Who else is coming out for prop 43?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:24] Who else is coming out for prop 43?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:11:27] Yeah, so in addition to the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association, we also have broad support across the Republican landscape in California. The California Republican Party supports Proposition 43. A bunch of other anti-tax groups also have jumped on board. And so you have kind of seen a partisan split in support and opposition to 43.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:11:27] Yeah, so in addition to the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association, we also have broad support across the Republican landscape in California. The California Republican Party supports Proposition 43. A bunch of other anti-tax groups also have jumped on board. And so you have kind of seen a partisan split in support and opposition to 43.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:50] Who else is coming out against Prop 43?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:50] Who else is coming out against Prop 43?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:11:54] So we’ve seen the California Democratic Party oppose Proposition 43 and also a lot of groups with ties to local government, which is no surprise. They feel like Prop 43 is gonna make it harder to get the revenue needed to run local governments. So for example, the California State Association of Counties, which represents county governments across the state and SCIU California, which a union that represents a lot local government employees. Who potentially could stand to lose if it’s harder for governments to raise revenue in the future.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:11:54] So we’ve seen the California Democratic Party oppose Proposition 43 and also a lot of groups with ties to local government, which is no surprise. They feel like Prop 43 is gonna make it harder to get the revenue needed to run local governments. So for example, the California State Association of Counties, which represents county governments across the state and SCIU California, which a union that represents a lot local government employees. Who potentially could stand to lose if it’s harder for governments to raise revenue in the future.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:12:24] Guy, what is spending looking like for Proposition 43?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:12:24] Guy, what is spending looking like for Proposition 43?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:12:29] So we’re seeing spending in support on paper far more than spending in opposition. Over $14 million spent in support of this. I should just say though that a lot of that money was spent before this idea actually made it onto the ballot. So back when the measure looked a lot different and it had the provisions around transfer taxes, we haven’t seen, for example, big spenders on this like the California Business Roundtable who poured in more than $9 million in support of this earlier in the year. They haven’t continued to spend after this final measure was on the ballot. So it’s unclear whether that big spending gap is actually gonna persist in practice through November.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:12:29] So we’re seeing spending in support on paper far more than spending in opposition. Over $14 million spent in support of this. I should just say though that a lot of that money was spent before this idea actually made it onto the ballot. So back when the measure looked a lot different and it had the provisions around transfer taxes, we haven’t seen, for example, big spenders on this like the California Business Roundtable who poured in more than $9 million in support of this earlier in the year. They haven’t continued to spend after this final measure was on the ballot. So it’s unclear whether that big spending gap is actually gonna persist in practice through November.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:12] This one is this a little bit of a doozy. So I guess for voters, any advice as they just try and make sense of this particular ballot measure?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:12] This one is this a little bit of a doozy. So I guess for voters, any advice as they just try and make sense of this particular ballot measure?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:13:23] Yeah, there’s definitely a lot of kind of twists and turns and complications into how this got onto the ballot. But I guess just to break down the arguments, supporters of prop 43 say if you want to tax residents for specific needs, there should be a broad support for that idea. It should be a two thirds support. If you’re going to raise taxes for a very earmarked cause, whether that be homelessness, public safety, whatever it is, it should be broad support behind it. And they want that two thirds requirement. On those local taxes. Opponents say this is not the time to make it harder for cities, for counties, for local governments to get revenue. A lot of cities and counties are already struggling with their budget. And by passing Proposition 43, it would be harder for citizens to bring tax measures on the ballot to bring more money into those local government coffers.\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:00] How much support do you think something should have to pass? 50% plus one? A simple majority? Or much more, like two-thirds in favor?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:11] Now in California, certain tax measures only require a simple majority of yes votes, while others require more.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:20] And that all depends on how the tax got on the ballot in the first place.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:26] If a special tax put on a ballot by citizens through signature gathering, it only needs a simple majority to pass. A special tax is a tax for a specific purpose, like policing, housing, or homeless services.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:41] But Proposition 43 would raise that threshold and require more support for special tax measures, even if citizens put it on the ballot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:52] I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:55] And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:58] Welcome to Prop Fest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. We’re back at it again with another prop breakdown to get you prepped to vote with confidence this November.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:09] Today, we’re walking you through Proposition 43. Here’s how it reads on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover \u003c/strong>[00:01:14] Prop 43 limits voters’ ability to raise revenues for local government services.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:24] Here to break down Prop 43 for us is KQED’s politics and government correspondent, Guy Marzorati.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:30] Hey.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:30] Guy. Hey. Guy, let’s just dive in here. What is Prop 43 all about?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:35] Yeah, so Proposition 43 is all about raising the voter threshold for citizen initiatives to pass at the local level. So what does that mean? If there is a ballot measure placed on the ballot through citizens gathering signatures, this would require that measure to get two thirds support. So super majority support. If the tax measure is asking voters to raise taxes for a specific issue. And what this measure is in response to. Is what we’ve seen over the last decade where through a series of court decisions, it’s become easier to pass taxes on the local level if citizens through the signature process are bringing a tax proposal to the ballot instead of having elected officials place taxes on a ballot directly.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:21] And what’s the difference between a general tax and a special tax?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:02:25] So a general tax is a tax that could go fund anything. It goes into the city or county’s general fund and elected officials can decide how to spend it however they want. A special tax says this money, if the tax passes, has to go to this specific thing. So maybe it has to build new housing or maybe it had to go fund police and fire. But there’s a specific written description of what the tax would go to that really governs how it’s used. So again, special taxes, money that’s going towards a specific thing, if those are placed on the ballot by elected officials, they require a two thirds vote. And that is how it used to be for any special tax for a long time, until about 2017 when there was a court decision that said, actually, if voters gather signatures and put a special tax on the ballot, it only requires a majority vote. What Proposition 43 does is return it to how it used to be where any special tax that’s on the ballot locally will require a two-thirds support.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:31] And why is there a difference there?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:03:34] Yeah, so this was really just a court interpretation of the law that had been on the books. Proposition 13, which is passed by California voters in the late 70s, said that these special taxes placed on the ballot by local government needed a two thirds vote to pass. And what the court questioned was whether the word government actually applied to the entire citizenry. So folks who are collecting signatures to put things on the They said, well, that doesn’t count as government putting it on the ballot. So that’s when you started to see the difference and you started see some real effects even here in the Bay Area. Look at Proposition C, for example, in San Francisco, 2018. This was a really high profile campaign around raising business taxes specifically to fund homelessness. Now, this was a special tax. The money that was collected had to go towards homelessness services, but it was put on the ballot through the signature process. And as a result, it was able to pass, even though the measure did not get two-thirds support, it got just over 60% support, but it able to take effect and bringing a lot of money to the city. For homelessness services. You even see it on the ballot in the Bay Area this year when voters are considering this region-wide transportation measure that’s only gonna require a majority vote to raise the sales tax to fund to fund BART, to fund Muni, Caltrain, because it was put on the ballet by a group of citizen signatures.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:05:06] That’s interesting. So whatever happens with Prop 43 has the potential to change how we vote on these kinds of measures you were just talking about.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:05:14] Exactly. Now it wouldn’t affect anything that’s on the ballot this year.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:05:18] Mm-hmm\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:05:19] But if Prop 43 passes, those could be kind of the last of their kind and going forward, we would end up in a situation where those kind of campaigns who are asking for tax increases for very specific purposes would need a two-thirds support.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:05:39] I mean, obviously those are big issues and big measures facing us here in the Bay Area. I mean is this push for a super majority vote on tax measures like this a new idea?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:05:53] No, this is not a new idea. It’s actually something that has been pushed by anti-tax groups ever since those decisions following 2017. And these groups, the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association, most notably, have argued that the courts betrayed the purpose of Prop 13, that they went and created this kind of loophole that allowed these local tax increases with a majority vote when that was never meant to be the purpose, you know, behind this provision in Prop 13.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:26] You mentioned earlier the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association coming out for this, I mean I feel like that’s a name that I just hear often, but I mean who are they exactly and how might California voters sort of make sense of who this association is and what else they’ve been responsible for?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:06:45] Yeah, so the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association, probably the most notable group in support of Proposition 43, and that goes back to their name, Howard Jarves. He was the proponent of Prop 13, the measure that limited property taxes and other taxes in the late 70s.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover\u003c/strong>[00:07:02] A thunderous response for Howard Jarvis, the 75-year-old millionaire who’s been campaigning for 15 years against taxes. This time Jarvis has done it, succeeded with America’s first tax revolution since T was tipped into Boston Harbor.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:07:18] And this is a group that ever since has been committed to reducing taxes in California, and they see Prop 43 as the next important step to do that.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Howard Jarvis \u003c/strong>[00:07:28] We have proven that here in California that we, the people, not the politicians, are still the boss.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:07:38] So, you know, you have those anti-tax groups who have been pushing against this and now they hope to change it with Proposition 43.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:07:52] We’ll have more on Proposition 43 right after this break. By the way, if you appreciate the work we’re doing here on PropFest, consider becoming a KQED sustaining member. Just go to donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:08:12] Well, let’s talk about the politics of this a little bit more. I mean, how did Prop 43 even get on the ballot in the first place? Who’s really behind it?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:08:24] The way this got on the ballot is kind of a long and winding road, but I’ll start at the end. This measure was placed on the ballot by the state legislature in a bill written by Democratic Assembly member Buffy Wicks from the East Bay.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Buffy Wicks \u003c/strong>[00:08:41] Thank you, Mr. Speaker and members, I rise to present ACA 22.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:08:44] Now the twist to this is that Buffy Wicks opposes this. She opposes the measure that she wrote to get this on the ballot. And the reason for that is that the measure she wrote was really a way to get anti-tax groups to remove a different proposal that they had already qualified for the ballot\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:04] Okay, what was the original measure that got taken off?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:09:08] You had anti-tax groups like the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association team up with developers and real estate interests to qualify a measure for the ballot earlier this year. And that measure both would have made these changes to the two-thirds requirements for local taxes. They also would have limited real estate transfer taxes, which are a tax that’s assessed when a real estate sale is made. So when a building is sold, when a home is sold in many cases. Local cities and counties apply transfer taxes on really expensive real estate sales. And developers have said this has gotten out of hand and it’s actually hurting development in the state. So the measure that they qualified both would have made this change on local taxes. It also would have capped real estate transfer taxes and it would have gone back and retroactively eliminated many real estate transferred taxes. And Jon Coupal, who’s president of the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association. Talked about why his group thinks this is important in an interview on KQED’s political breakdown.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jon Coupal \u003c/strong>[00:10:12] We had a very expressed prohibition in the state constitution against real estate transfer taxes. And whenever the courts create a loophole, we have to come back and shut the door.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:10:24] Now this was seen by opponents as a really bad result for local governments, not only because it would have limited the ability to raise taxes going forward, but also cities rely on those transfer taxes. So there was an effort to try to negotiate and get this measure off the ballot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Buffy Wicks \u003c/strong>[00:10:41] Politics is about choices and we often must navigate challenging decisions. Big picture, the vote today protects vital resources for our local communities and it removes the greatest threat to our cities and their fiscal health which is the Taxpayer Protection Act.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:10:56] So Buffy Wicks, in trying to craft this deal, basically wrote the measure that they committed to keeping on the ballot in exchange for getting the harsher limits on transfer taxes off of it. So she wrote it, it passed the legislature, it got placed on the ballet, and then she immediately made clear, I do not support this idea. This was just the only way I could get a proposal that I viewed as worse off of the ballot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:24] Who else is coming out for prop 43?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:11:27] Yeah, so in addition to the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association, we also have broad support across the Republican landscape in California. The California Republican Party supports Proposition 43. A bunch of other anti-tax groups also have jumped on board. And so you have kind of seen a partisan split in support and opposition to 43.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:50] Who else is coming out against Prop 43?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:11:54] So we’ve seen the California Democratic Party oppose Proposition 43 and also a lot of groups with ties to local government, which is no surprise. They feel like Prop 43 is gonna make it harder to get the revenue needed to run local governments. So for example, the California State Association of Counties, which represents county governments across the state and SCIU California, which a union that represents a lot local government employees. Who potentially could stand to lose if it’s harder for governments to raise revenue in the future.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:12:24] Guy, what is spending looking like for Proposition 43?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:12:29] So we’re seeing spending in support on paper far more than spending in opposition. Over $14 million spent in support of this. I should just say though that a lot of that money was spent before this idea actually made it onto the ballot. So back when the measure looked a lot different and it had the provisions around transfer taxes, we haven’t seen, for example, big spenders on this like the California Business Roundtable who poured in more than $9 million in support of this earlier in the year. They haven’t continued to spend after this final measure was on the ballot. So it’s unclear whether that big spending gap is actually gonna persist in practice through November.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:12] This one is this a little bit of a doozy. So I guess for voters, any advice as they just try and make sense of this particular ballot measure?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:13:23] Yeah, there’s definitely a lot of kind of twists and turns and complications into how this got onto the ballot. But I guess just to break down the arguments, supporters of prop 43 say if you want to tax residents for specific needs, there should be a broad support for that idea. It should be a two thirds support. If you’re going to raise taxes for a very earmarked cause, whether that be homelessness, public safety, whatever it is, it should be broad support behind it. And they want that two thirds requirement. On those local taxes. Opponents say this is not the time to make it harder for cities, for counties, for local governments to get revenue. A lot of cities and counties are already struggling with their budget. 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"content": "\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:00] \u003c/em>Immunotherapy has been around for a really long time. Things like vaccines are considered part of immunology, but it also includes more recent innovations like newer treatments for blood and skin cancers. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:15] \u003c/em>In simple terms, immunotherapy is individualized treatment designed to harness a patient’s immune system to fight disease. For some, immunotherapy has been life-changing. And voters are being asked this November whether to fund immunology and immunotherapy research with one very specific beneficiary in mind. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:38] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:41] \u003c/em>And I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:44] \u003c/em>And welcome to Prop Fest. A collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curious, where we break down all 14 statewide propositions on your ballot this year November. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:54] \u003c/em>And we’re back at it again with Proposition 38. Here’s how it reads on your ballot. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reporter: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:01] \u003c/em>Prop 38 authorizes bonds for immunology medical research. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:08] \u003c/em>Here to walk us through all of this is KQED Health Correspondent April Dembosky. April, first of all, what is Prop 38 all about? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:16] \u003c/em>Prop 38 is a bond measure that would fund immunology and immunotherapy research. It would allow the state to borrow $8.4 billion and distribute it to nonprofit research centers that are studying immunotherapy treatments for cancer, heart disease, and Alzheimer’s. The measure is expected to cost the state about $500 million a year for 20 years in bond repayments. And about $4 billion of that would be interest payments on top of the original 8.4 billion for a total cost of about $12 billion. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:58] \u003c/em>There is sort of an interesting story about how this came on the ballot in the first place, right? Can you actually talk about why voters are even being asked to fund immunotherapy in this year’s election?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:11] \u003c/em>Prop 38 was the brainchild of a philanthropist named Gary Michelson. He raised the money to collect the signatures and put Prop 38 on the ballot. Something that’s really interesting about the initiative is how it’s worded. The language is very careful. It lists very strict criteria for the type of academic institution that should receive half of the money. This criteria is so specific. That only one university in the state meets the criteria, and that is UCLA. Half the funds would go toward launching a new immunology institute at UCLA, and the other half would be awarded through competitive grants to other institutes also in California. And so, as it turns out, Michelson has already donated $120 million of his own money to establish a new institute for immunotherapy at UCLA. It’s called the California Institute for Immunology and Immunotherapy. That same institution would also be the touch point for all the research. So the other half of the funding that would get distributed in competitive grants would all be sort of centered at UCLA. So it’s safe to say that this is on the ballot because a very wealthy philanthropist put it there as a way to finance a research institution focused on his interest, which is immunology and immunotherapy.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:50] \u003c/em>Okay, April, so Prop 38 was put on the ballot by this wealthy philanthropist, Gary Michelson, and it’s written in this way that would, it sounds like directly benefit a research institute at UCLA that he’s helping to fund. So clearly he has some skin in the game here. Is Prop 38 getting much support from elsewhere? Like how else is the pro-Prop 38 side kind of shaping up?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:18] \u003c/em>There’s a long list of foundations and advocacy groups that have signed on in support of Prop 38, places like Blood Cancer United, the Melanoma Research Alliance, the Alzheimer’s Association, the ALS Association, the National Multiple Sclerosis Society, the Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson’s Research. So these are groups that hope and believe that new immunotherapies could be developed to treat these specific diseases. Proponents also say this initiative is necessary because federal funding for this kind of research has become unreliable under the current administration. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jillian McCool: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:58] \u003c/em>The big thing right now is that current CAR T therapy is really expensive. It’s not as efficient as we want it to be. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:05] \u003c/em>So I spoke to one researcher who was working on a project funded by the NIH, the National Institutes of Health. Her name is Jillian McCool, and she was working at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory studying vaccines and a kind of therapy for cancer. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jillian McCool: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:20] \u003c/em>We basically can take your immune cells and we can take them out of your body and we an alter them so they’re better fit and better suited to fight cancer cells specifically. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:29] \u003c/em>And then some of their grants ran out after they reached the end of the term, but then some of the funding was paused because of the most recent government shutdown. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jillian McCool: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:38] \u003c/em>All of the sudden we have this weird rhetoric around vaccines and all of the sudden there’s this new administration coming in that’s kind of pushing that rhetoric. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:47] \u003c/em>McCool says about 100 scientists were laid off, including her. She was out of work for a year and a half. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jillian McCool: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:54] \u003c/em>And then the public is no longer trusting scientists and what they have to say in the data we’ve collected, it kind of makes you question your whole career in general. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:05] \u003c/em>So it’s personal for McCool, but she says Prop 38 is a way to correct what’s happening at the federal level and protect the jobs of lots of other scientists. She also says, you know, California is a center of excellence in this kind of research, and so it makes sense to root it here. She also points out that the measure is designed to be cost neutral, with 10% of revenues generated from successful discoveries being funneled back to the state. Californians would also be entitled to a 20% discount on any new therapies that are generated from the bond money.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:41] \u003c/em>And a big part of immunotherapy research is directed towards cancer research and you actually met a cancer patient who’s pretty gung-ho about Prop 38, right? Tell me about her. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laurie Adami: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:52] \u003c/em>My name is Laurie Adami and I live in Los Angeles, California. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:57] \u003c/em>Laurie was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. It’s a kind of blood cancer, and this was 20 years ago. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laurie Adami: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:04] \u003c/em>And when I got sick and I ended up losing my career as a result of my very long battle with cancer. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:13] \u003c/em>Several years ago, she enrolled in a clinical trial for an immunotherapy called CAR-T. So, Laurie had one infusion of this immunotherapy about eight years ago and her cancer has not come back since. Now, she’s only one person. You know, it’s important to point out there’s still a large proportion of patients who participated in these trials who did not respond in the same way. But as you can imagine, Laurie is pretty gung-ho for Prop 38. Because of the prospect that it could fund more research and develop more treatments like this to fight other kinds of cancers and other diseases and help more people. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laurie Adami: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:54] \u003c/em>You know, not every family is gonna be affected by cancer, but every family is gonna affected by these other diseases. And so I am a huge proponent and supporter because immunotherapy saved my life. So why wouldn’t I believe? And why wouldn’t I want more patients to be able to access the type of treatment that finally saved my live? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:23] \u003c/em>We’ll have more on Proposition 38 right after this. By the way, if you appreciate the work we’re doing here on PropFest, consider becoming a sustaining member of KQED. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. We’ll be right back. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:47] \u003c/em>And we’re back breaking down Proposition 38 with KQED’s April Dembosky. April, you talked about the various different groups supporting Prop 38, including a patient who really believes in the power of immunotherapy research to potentially save lives. So who’s coming out against Prop 38 and what is their argument? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:10] \u003c/em>Yeah, so there’s a very small group of opponents. They’re pretty much all volunteers. It’s very grassroots. And they have organized to point out what they see as the weaknesses and even what they might call the dangers of Prop 38\u003cem>.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Robert Kaplan: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:26] \u003c/em>I just think that there are inherent conflicts of interest. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:29] \u003c/em>The main one is Robert Kaplan. He’s a biomedical researcher and administrator at Stanford University School of Medicine. And he also worked at the NIH, the National Institutes of Health. So he has a lot of experience coordinating the kind of research that we’re talking about and at a really grand scale. So he says he supports biomedical research. He’s in favor of science, including immunotherapy. But he says this proposition is not the way to fund it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Robert Kaplan: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:58] \u003c/em>If you look at NIH support for biomedical research in general or immunology research, there are several institutions in California that are the national leaders, but because of the sort of arbitrary criteria in Proposition 38, they’re not eligible to compete. And we think that’s not right.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:17] \u003c/em>So science grants are usually awarded based on an open, competitive process. People have to have a proven track record. He says it’s a good idea to spread that kind of research across different institutions, so you have different people with different ideas and different methodology. But half of the money for Prop 38 goes directly to one brand new institute that is barely off the ground yet, and it has zero track record. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Robert Kaplan: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:47] \u003c/em>I think [if] taxpayers are going to have to repay these bonds. We think that should be a fair competition that allows all of these excellent institutions in California to have an opportunity to be in that competition. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:59] \u003c/em>The opponents would really point out it’s only for immunotherapy and immunology research. So if you think that there are other kinds of health priorities, like mental illness or kidney disease or other kinds treatments, those are not included here. The other people speaking out against Prop 38, they’re a very interesting group. They are financial analysts who used to work at the LAO. That’s the Legislative Analyst’s Office. And this is a nonpartisan state agency. It’s tasked with evaluating proposed legislation and ballot measures like this one. And they are trained to never take a stand on political issues. And in this case, three retired analysts from the LAOs are breaking that wall, because of their concerns on Prop 38.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Carson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:56] \u003c/em>Hi. I’m Dan Carson. I’m here today as a cancer survivor myself, who is obviously not against good medical research.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:05] \u003c/em>So one of them is Dan Carson. He ran the health section of the LAO back in 2004 when another bond measure was on the ballot to fund stem cell research. So proponents said the $3 billion for that initiative would be paid back by all the new stem cell discoveries that researchers made with the money.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Carson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:26] \u003c/em>In fact, as our analysis at the time made really clear, the state eventually received only a tiny fraction of the billions of dollars we were promised. So here we go again with Prop 38. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:41] \u003c/em>The opponents of Prop 38 take issue with one of the main claims that the supporters of Prop 38 have, which is they say that the proposition will be cost neutral, that the money that California borrows and spends on the research will be made back by revenues from all of the scientific discoveries that they made. The LAO analysts say the math just doesn’t add up. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Carson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:08] \u003c/em>Oh, once again, we’re being promised in this initiative and by its advocates that will quote, pay for itself with no net cost to the state or taxpayers, closed quote. I’m here to tell you that after reviewing the fine print of this ballot measure, that won’t happen. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:32] \u003c/em>April, what’s spending on Prop 38 looking like on either side, the yes and the no side? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:38] \u003c/em>So the Yes on Prop 38 campaign has raised about $27 million so far, and that comes mainly from Gary Michaelson and another billionaire who have donated to the same institute that would be the main beneficiary of the Prop 38 funds. The no side has not raised any money so far.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:59] \u003c/em>It seems like we as voters are sort of being asked to decide how scientific research should happen almost and the best way to go about that. How do you think voters should sort of navigate the question being asked before them? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:15] \u003c/em>It’s such a tricky one to put voters in a position of having to become experts on a field of science that maybe they haven’t even heard about. Totally, that’s how I feel. Right. You know, I think on its face, Prop 38 is very appealing and we’ve seen various ballot measures over the years that are healthcare oriented and we find that they often play well. For people who feel really strongly about this area of research, they may feel happy to have the opportunity to vote on something like this and set aside a pot of money that is just for this kind of research. On the other hand, the way that this proposition is worded and the way the money would be distributed looks very, very different from the kind of process that’s used at the federal level. So you’re not just creating a new fund for stability, you’re actually creating a new way of how that science gets funded and how the money gets distributed. Propositions like this, you could say are direct democracy, but in another way, they also circumvent that other democratic process.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:15:35] \u003c/em>Well, April Dombosky, thank you so much for breaking this down. Appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:15:40] \u003c/em>Thanks, Ericka.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:15:42] \u003c/em>In a nutshell, a yes vote on this measure means the state could borrow $8.4 billion to support medical research in immunology and immunotherapy. A no vote means the state cannot borrow 8.4 billion for immunology, and immunotherapy research. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:02] \u003c/em>And that’s it for our latest episode of PropFest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. If this series is helping you get educated on all the statewide props, we sure hope that you’re going to share them with your friends and family. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:16] \u003c/em>The link is kqed.org slash propfest and we’ll be dropping new breakdowns until October 9th. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:24] \u003c/em>PropFest is made possible thanks to Katrina Schwartz, Pauline Bartolone, Anna Casalme, Ericka Cruz Guevara, Gabriela Glueck. Christopher Beale, Alan Montecillo. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:35] \u003c/em>And me, Olivia Allen Price. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:37] \u003c/em>We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Springer, Jen Chien. Ethan Tovan Lindsey and everyone on Team KQED. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:46] \u003c/em>Our show is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:51] \u003c/em>Support for The Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:17:08] \u003c/em>And I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Have a good one. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:00] \u003c/em>Immunotherapy has been around for a really long time. Things like vaccines are considered part of immunology, but it also includes more recent innovations like newer treatments for blood and skin cancers. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:00] \u003c/em>Immunotherapy has been around for a really long time. Things like vaccines are considered part of immunology, but it also includes more recent innovations like newer treatments for blood and skin cancers. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:15] \u003c/em>In simple terms, immunotherapy is individualized treatment designed to harness a patient’s immune system to fight disease. For some, immunotherapy has been life-changing. And voters are being asked this November whether to fund immunology and immunotherapy research with one very specific beneficiary in mind. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:15] \u003c/em>In simple terms, immunotherapy is individualized treatment designed to harness a patient’s immune system to fight disease. For some, immunotherapy has been life-changing. And voters are being asked this November whether to fund immunology and immunotherapy research with one very specific beneficiary in mind. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:38] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:41] \u003c/em>And I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:44] \u003c/em>And welcome to Prop Fest. A collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curious, where we break down all 14 statewide propositions on your ballot this year November. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:54] \u003c/em>And we’re back at it again with Proposition 38. Here’s how it reads on your ballot. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:54] \u003c/em>And we’re back at it again with Proposition 38. Here’s how it reads on your ballot. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reporter: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:01] \u003c/em>Prop 38 authorizes bonds for immunology medical research. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:08] \u003c/em>Here to walk us through all of this is KQED Health Correspondent April Dembosky. April, first of all, what is Prop 38 all about? \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:16] \u003c/em>Prop 38 is a bond measure that would fund immunology and immunotherapy research. It would allow the state to borrow $8.4 billion and distribute it to nonprofit research centers that are studying immunotherapy treatments for cancer, heart disease, and Alzheimer’s. The measure is expected to cost the state about $500 million a year for 20 years in bond repayments. And about $4 billion of that would be interest payments on top of the original 8.4 billion for a total cost of about $12 billion. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:58] \u003c/em>There is sort of an interesting story about how this came on the ballot in the first place, right? Can you actually talk about why voters are even being asked to fund immunotherapy in this year’s election?\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:11] \u003c/em>Prop 38 was the brainchild of a philanthropist named Gary Michelson. He raised the money to collect the signatures and put Prop 38 on the ballot. Something that’s really interesting about the initiative is how it’s worded. The language is very careful. It lists very strict criteria for the type of academic institution that should receive half of the money. This criteria is so specific. That only one university in the state meets the criteria, and that is UCLA. Half the funds would go toward launching a new immunology institute at UCLA, and the other half would be awarded through competitive grants to other institutes also in California. And so, as it turns out, Michelson has already donated $120 million of his own money to establish a new institute for immunotherapy at UCLA. It’s called the California Institute for Immunology and Immunotherapy. That same institution would also be the touch point for all the research. So the other half of the funding that would get distributed in competitive grants would all be sort of centered at UCLA. So it’s safe to say that this is on the ballot because a very wealthy philanthropist put it there as a way to finance a research institution focused on his interest, which is immunology and immunotherapy.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:50] \u003c/em>Okay, April, so Prop 38 was put on the ballot by this wealthy philanthropist, Gary Michelson, and it’s written in this way that would, it sounds like directly benefit a research institute at UCLA that he’s helping to fund. So clearly he has some skin in the game here. Is Prop 38 getting much support from elsewhere? Like how else is the pro-Prop 38 side kind of shaping up?\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:18] \u003c/em>There’s a long list of foundations and advocacy groups that have signed on in support of Prop 38, places like Blood Cancer United, the Melanoma Research Alliance, the Alzheimer’s Association, the ALS Association, the National Multiple Sclerosis Society, the Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson’s Research. So these are groups that hope and believe that new immunotherapies could be developed to treat these specific diseases. Proponents also say this initiative is necessary because federal funding for this kind of research has become unreliable under the current administration. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:18] \u003c/em>There’s a long list of foundations and advocacy groups that have signed on in support of Prop 38, places like Blood Cancer United, the Melanoma Research Alliance, the Alzheimer’s Association, the ALS Association, the National Multiple Sclerosis Society, the Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson’s Research. So these are groups that hope and believe that new immunotherapies could be developed to treat these specific diseases. Proponents also say this initiative is necessary because federal funding for this kind of research has become unreliable under the current administration. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jillian McCool: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:58] \u003c/em>The big thing right now is that current CAR T therapy is really expensive. It’s not as efficient as we want it to be. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jillian McCool: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:58] \u003c/em>The big thing right now is that current CAR T therapy is really expensive. It’s not as efficient as we want it to be. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:05] \u003c/em>So I spoke to one researcher who was working on a project funded by the NIH, the National Institutes of Health. Her name is Jillian McCool, and she was working at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory studying vaccines and a kind of therapy for cancer. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jillian McCool: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:20] \u003c/em>We basically can take your immune cells and we can take them out of your body and we an alter them so they’re better fit and better suited to fight cancer cells specifically. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jillian McCool: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:20] \u003c/em>We basically can take your immune cells and we can take them out of your body and we an alter them so they’re better fit and better suited to fight cancer cells specifically. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:29] \u003c/em>And then some of their grants ran out after they reached the end of the term, but then some of the funding was paused because of the most recent government shutdown. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:29] \u003c/em>And then some of their grants ran out after they reached the end of the term, but then some of the funding was paused because of the most recent government shutdown. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jillian McCool: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:38] \u003c/em>All of the sudden we have this weird rhetoric around vaccines and all of the sudden there’s this new administration coming in that’s kind of pushing that rhetoric. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jillian McCool: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:38] \u003c/em>All of the sudden we have this weird rhetoric around vaccines and all of the sudden there’s this new administration coming in that’s kind of pushing that rhetoric. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:47] \u003c/em>McCool says about 100 scientists were laid off, including her. She was out of work for a year and a half. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:47] \u003c/em>McCool says about 100 scientists were laid off, including her. She was out of work for a year and a half. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jillian McCool: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:54] \u003c/em>And then the public is no longer trusting scientists and what they have to say in the data we’ve collected, it kind of makes you question your whole career in general. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jillian McCool: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:54] \u003c/em>And then the public is no longer trusting scientists and what they have to say in the data we’ve collected, it kind of makes you question your whole career in general. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:05] \u003c/em>So it’s personal for McCool, but she says Prop 38 is a way to correct what’s happening at the federal level and protect the jobs of lots of other scientists. She also says, you know, California is a center of excellence in this kind of research, and so it makes sense to root it here. She also points out that the measure is designed to be cost neutral, with 10% of revenues generated from successful discoveries being funneled back to the state. Californians would also be entitled to a 20% discount on any new therapies that are generated from the bond money.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:05] \u003c/em>So it’s personal for McCool, but she says Prop 38 is a way to correct what’s happening at the federal level and protect the jobs of lots of other scientists. She also says, you know, California is a center of excellence in this kind of research, and so it makes sense to root it here. She also points out that the measure is designed to be cost neutral, with 10% of revenues generated from successful discoveries being funneled back to the state. Californians would also be entitled to a 20% discount on any new therapies that are generated from the bond money.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:41] \u003c/em>And a big part of immunotherapy research is directed towards cancer research and you actually met a cancer patient who’s pretty gung-ho about Prop 38, right? Tell me about her. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:41] \u003c/em>And a big part of immunotherapy research is directed towards cancer research and you actually met a cancer patient who’s pretty gung-ho about Prop 38, right? Tell me about her. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laurie Adami: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:52] \u003c/em>My name is Laurie Adami and I live in Los Angeles, California. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laurie Adami: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:52] \u003c/em>My name is Laurie Adami and I live in Los Angeles, California. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:57] \u003c/em>Laurie was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. It’s a kind of blood cancer, and this was 20 years ago. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:57] \u003c/em>Laurie was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. It’s a kind of blood cancer, and this was 20 years ago. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laurie Adami: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:04] \u003c/em>And when I got sick and I ended up losing my career as a result of my very long battle with cancer. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laurie Adami: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:04] \u003c/em>And when I got sick and I ended up losing my career as a result of my very long battle with cancer. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:13] \u003c/em>Several years ago, she enrolled in a clinical trial for an immunotherapy called CAR-T. So, Laurie had one infusion of this immunotherapy about eight years ago and her cancer has not come back since. Now, she’s only one person. You know, it’s important to point out there’s still a large proportion of patients who participated in these trials who did not respond in the same way. But as you can imagine, Laurie is pretty gung-ho for Prop 38. Because of the prospect that it could fund more research and develop more treatments like this to fight other kinds of cancers and other diseases and help more people. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:13] \u003c/em>Several years ago, she enrolled in a clinical trial for an immunotherapy called CAR-T. So, Laurie had one infusion of this immunotherapy about eight years ago and her cancer has not come back since. Now, she’s only one person. You know, it’s important to point out there’s still a large proportion of patients who participated in these trials who did not respond in the same way. But as you can imagine, Laurie is pretty gung-ho for Prop 38. Because of the prospect that it could fund more research and develop more treatments like this to fight other kinds of cancers and other diseases and help more people. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laurie Adami: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:54] \u003c/em>You know, not every family is gonna be affected by cancer, but every family is gonna affected by these other diseases. And so I am a huge proponent and supporter because immunotherapy saved my life. So why wouldn’t I believe? And why wouldn’t I want more patients to be able to access the type of treatment that finally saved my live? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laurie Adami: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:54] \u003c/em>You know, not every family is gonna be affected by cancer, but every family is gonna affected by these other diseases. And so I am a huge proponent and supporter because immunotherapy saved my life. So why wouldn’t I believe? And why wouldn’t I want more patients to be able to access the type of treatment that finally saved my live? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:23] \u003c/em>We’ll have more on Proposition 38 right after this. By the way, if you appreciate the work we’re doing here on PropFest, consider becoming a sustaining member of KQED. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. We’ll be right back. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:23] \u003c/em>We’ll have more on Proposition 38 right after this. By the way, if you appreciate the work we’re doing here on PropFest, consider becoming a sustaining member of KQED. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. We’ll be right back. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:47] \u003c/em>And we’re back breaking down Proposition 38 with KQED’s April Dembosky. April, you talked about the various different groups supporting Prop 38, including a patient who really believes in the power of immunotherapy research to potentially save lives. So who’s coming out against Prop 38 and what is their argument? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:47] \u003c/em>And we’re back breaking down Proposition 38 with KQED’s April Dembosky. April, you talked about the various different groups supporting Prop 38, including a patient who really believes in the power of immunotherapy research to potentially save lives. So who’s coming out against Prop 38 and what is their argument? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:10] \u003c/em>Yeah, so there’s a very small group of opponents. They’re pretty much all volunteers. It’s very grassroots. And they have organized to point out what they see as the weaknesses and even what they might call the dangers of Prop 38\u003cem>.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:10] \u003c/em>Yeah, so there’s a very small group of opponents. They’re pretty much all volunteers. It’s very grassroots. And they have organized to point out what they see as the weaknesses and even what they might call the dangers of Prop 38\u003cem>.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Robert Kaplan: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:26] \u003c/em>I just think that there are inherent conflicts of interest. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Robert Kaplan: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:26] \u003c/em>I just think that there are inherent conflicts of interest. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:29] \u003c/em>The main one is Robert Kaplan. He’s a biomedical researcher and administrator at Stanford University School of Medicine. And he also worked at the NIH, the National Institutes of Health. So he has a lot of experience coordinating the kind of research that we’re talking about and at a really grand scale. So he says he supports biomedical research. He’s in favor of science, including immunotherapy. But he says this proposition is not the way to fund it. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:29] \u003c/em>The main one is Robert Kaplan. He’s a biomedical researcher and administrator at Stanford University School of Medicine. And he also worked at the NIH, the National Institutes of Health. So he has a lot of experience coordinating the kind of research that we’re talking about and at a really grand scale. So he says he supports biomedical research. He’s in favor of science, including immunotherapy. But he says this proposition is not the way to fund it. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Robert Kaplan: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:58] \u003c/em>If you look at NIH support for biomedical research in general or immunology research, there are several institutions in California that are the national leaders, but because of the sort of arbitrary criteria in Proposition 38, they’re not eligible to compete. And we think that’s not right.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Robert Kaplan: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:58] \u003c/em>If you look at NIH support for biomedical research in general or immunology research, there are several institutions in California that are the national leaders, but because of the sort of arbitrary criteria in Proposition 38, they’re not eligible to compete. And we think that’s not right.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:17] \u003c/em>So science grants are usually awarded based on an open, competitive process. People have to have a proven track record. He says it’s a good idea to spread that kind of research across different institutions, so you have different people with different ideas and different methodology. But half of the money for Prop 38 goes directly to one brand new institute that is barely off the ground yet, and it has zero track record. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:17] \u003c/em>So science grants are usually awarded based on an open, competitive process. People have to have a proven track record. He says it’s a good idea to spread that kind of research across different institutions, so you have different people with different ideas and different methodology. But half of the money for Prop 38 goes directly to one brand new institute that is barely off the ground yet, and it has zero track record. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Robert Kaplan: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:47] \u003c/em>I think [if] taxpayers are going to have to repay these bonds. We think that should be a fair competition that allows all of these excellent institutions in California to have an opportunity to be in that competition. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Robert Kaplan: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:47] \u003c/em>I think [if] taxpayers are going to have to repay these bonds. We think that should be a fair competition that allows all of these excellent institutions in California to have an opportunity to be in that competition. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:59] \u003c/em>The opponents would really point out it’s only for immunotherapy and immunology research. So if you think that there are other kinds of health priorities, like mental illness or kidney disease or other kinds treatments, those are not included here. The other people speaking out against Prop 38, they’re a very interesting group. They are financial analysts who used to work at the LAO. That’s the Legislative Analyst’s Office. And this is a nonpartisan state agency. It’s tasked with evaluating proposed legislation and ballot measures like this one. And they are trained to never take a stand on political issues. And in this case, three retired analysts from the LAOs are breaking that wall, because of their concerns on Prop 38.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:59] \u003c/em>The opponents would really point out it’s only for immunotherapy and immunology research. So if you think that there are other kinds of health priorities, like mental illness or kidney disease or other kinds treatments, those are not included here. The other people speaking out against Prop 38, they’re a very interesting group. They are financial analysts who used to work at the LAO. That’s the Legislative Analyst’s Office. And this is a nonpartisan state agency. It’s tasked with evaluating proposed legislation and ballot measures like this one. And they are trained to never take a stand on political issues. And in this case, three retired analysts from the LAOs are breaking that wall, because of their concerns on Prop 38.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Carson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:56] \u003c/em>Hi. I’m Dan Carson. I’m here today as a cancer survivor myself, who is obviously not against good medical research.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Carson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:56] \u003c/em>Hi. I’m Dan Carson. I’m here today as a cancer survivor myself, who is obviously not against good medical research.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:05] \u003c/em>So one of them is Dan Carson. He ran the health section of the LAO back in 2004 when another bond measure was on the ballot to fund stem cell research. So proponents said the $3 billion for that initiative would be paid back by all the new stem cell discoveries that researchers made with the money.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:05] \u003c/em>So one of them is Dan Carson. He ran the health section of the LAO back in 2004 when another bond measure was on the ballot to fund stem cell research. So proponents said the $3 billion for that initiative would be paid back by all the new stem cell discoveries that researchers made with the money.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:41] \u003c/em>The opponents of Prop 38 take issue with one of the main claims that the supporters of Prop 38 have, which is they say that the proposition will be cost neutral, that the money that California borrows and spends on the research will be made back by revenues from all of the scientific discoveries that they made. The LAO analysts say the math just doesn’t add up. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:32] \u003c/em>April, what’s spending on Prop 38 looking like on either side, the yes and the no side? \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:38] \u003c/em>So the Yes on Prop 38 campaign has raised about $27 million so far, and that comes mainly from Gary Michaelson and another billionaire who have donated to the same institute that would be the main beneficiary of the Prop 38 funds. The no side has not raised any money so far.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:59] \u003c/em>It seems like we as voters are sort of being asked to decide how scientific research should happen almost and the best way to go about that. How do you think voters should sort of navigate the question being asked before them? \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:15] \u003c/em>It’s such a tricky one to put voters in a position of having to become experts on a field of science that maybe they haven’t even heard about. Totally, that’s how I feel. Right. You know, I think on its face, Prop 38 is very appealing and we’ve seen various ballot measures over the years that are healthcare oriented and we find that they often play well. For people who feel really strongly about this area of research, they may feel happy to have the opportunity to vote on something like this and set aside a pot of money that is just for this kind of research. On the other hand, the way that this proposition is worded and the way the money would be distributed looks very, very different from the kind of process that’s used at the federal level. So you’re not just creating a new fund for stability, you’re actually creating a new way of how that science gets funded and how the money gets distributed. Propositions like this, you could say are direct democracy, but in another way, they also circumvent that other democratic process.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:15] \u003c/em>It’s such a tricky one to put voters in a position of having to become experts on a field of science that maybe they haven’t even heard about. Totally, that’s how I feel. Right. You know, I think on its face, Prop 38 is very appealing and we’ve seen various ballot measures over the years that are healthcare oriented and we find that they often play well. For people who feel really strongly about this area of research, they may feel happy to have the opportunity to vote on something like this and set aside a pot of money that is just for this kind of research. On the other hand, the way that this proposition is worded and the way the money would be distributed looks very, very different from the kind of process that’s used at the federal level. So you’re not just creating a new fund for stability, you’re actually creating a new way of how that science gets funded and how the money gets distributed. Propositions like this, you could say are direct democracy, but in another way, they also circumvent that other democratic process.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:15:35] \u003c/em>Well, April Dombosky, thank you so much for breaking this down. Appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:15:35] \u003c/em>Well, April Dombosky, thank you so much for breaking this down. Appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:15:42] \u003c/em>In a nutshell, a yes vote on this measure means the state could borrow $8.4 billion to support medical research in immunology and immunotherapy. A no vote means the state cannot borrow 8.4 billion for immunology, and immunotherapy research. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:15:42] \u003c/em>In a nutshell, a yes vote on this measure means the state could borrow $8.4 billion to support medical research in immunology and immunotherapy. A no vote means the state cannot borrow 8.4 billion for immunology, and immunotherapy research. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:02] \u003c/em>And that’s it for our latest episode of PropFest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. If this series is helping you get educated on all the statewide props, we sure hope that you’re going to share them with your friends and family. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:02] \u003c/em>And that’s it for our latest episode of PropFest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. If this series is helping you get educated on all the statewide props, we sure hope that you’re going to share them with your friends and family. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:16] \u003c/em>The link is kqed.org slash propfest and we’ll be dropping new breakdowns until October 9th. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:16] \u003c/em>The link is kqed.org slash propfest and we’ll be dropping new breakdowns until October 9th. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:24] \u003c/em>PropFest is made possible thanks to Katrina Schwartz, Pauline Bartolone, Anna Casalme, Ericka Cruz Guevara, Gabriela Glueck. Christopher Beale, Alan Montecillo. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:24] \u003c/em>PropFest is made possible thanks to Katrina Schwartz, Pauline Bartolone, Anna Casalme, Ericka Cruz Guevara, Gabriela Glueck. Christopher Beale, Alan Montecillo. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:35] \u003c/em>And me, Olivia Allen Price. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:37] \u003c/em>We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Springer, Jen Chien. Ethan Tovan Lindsey and everyone on Team KQED. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:51] \u003c/em>Support for The Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. \u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:00] \u003c/em>Immunotherapy has been around for a really long time. Things like vaccines are considered part of immunology, but it also includes more recent innovations like newer treatments for blood and skin cancers. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:15] \u003c/em>In simple terms, immunotherapy is individualized treatment designed to harness a patient’s immune system to fight disease. For some, immunotherapy has been life-changing. And voters are being asked this November whether to fund immunology and immunotherapy research with one very specific beneficiary in mind. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:38] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:41] \u003c/em>And I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:44] \u003c/em>And welcome to Prop Fest. A collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curious, where we break down all 14 statewide propositions on your ballot this year November. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:54] \u003c/em>And we’re back at it again with Proposition 38. Here’s how it reads on your ballot. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reporter: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:01] \u003c/em>Prop 38 authorizes bonds for immunology medical research. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:08] \u003c/em>Here to walk us through all of this is KQED Health Correspondent April Dembosky. April, first of all, what is Prop 38 all about? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:16] \u003c/em>Prop 38 is a bond measure that would fund immunology and immunotherapy research. It would allow the state to borrow $8.4 billion and distribute it to nonprofit research centers that are studying immunotherapy treatments for cancer, heart disease, and Alzheimer’s. The measure is expected to cost the state about $500 million a year for 20 years in bond repayments. And about $4 billion of that would be interest payments on top of the original 8.4 billion for a total cost of about $12 billion. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:58] \u003c/em>There is sort of an interesting story about how this came on the ballot in the first place, right? Can you actually talk about why voters are even being asked to fund immunotherapy in this year’s election?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:11] \u003c/em>Prop 38 was the brainchild of a philanthropist named Gary Michelson. He raised the money to collect the signatures and put Prop 38 on the ballot. Something that’s really interesting about the initiative is how it’s worded. The language is very careful. It lists very strict criteria for the type of academic institution that should receive half of the money. This criteria is so specific. That only one university in the state meets the criteria, and that is UCLA. Half the funds would go toward launching a new immunology institute at UCLA, and the other half would be awarded through competitive grants to other institutes also in California. And so, as it turns out, Michelson has already donated $120 million of his own money to establish a new institute for immunotherapy at UCLA. It’s called the California Institute for Immunology and Immunotherapy. That same institution would also be the touch point for all the research. So the other half of the funding that would get distributed in competitive grants would all be sort of centered at UCLA. So it’s safe to say that this is on the ballot because a very wealthy philanthropist put it there as a way to finance a research institution focused on his interest, which is immunology and immunotherapy.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:50] \u003c/em>Okay, April, so Prop 38 was put on the ballot by this wealthy philanthropist, Gary Michelson, and it’s written in this way that would, it sounds like directly benefit a research institute at UCLA that he’s helping to fund. So clearly he has some skin in the game here. Is Prop 38 getting much support from elsewhere? Like how else is the pro-Prop 38 side kind of shaping up?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:18] \u003c/em>There’s a long list of foundations and advocacy groups that have signed on in support of Prop 38, places like Blood Cancer United, the Melanoma Research Alliance, the Alzheimer’s Association, the ALS Association, the National Multiple Sclerosis Society, the Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson’s Research. So these are groups that hope and believe that new immunotherapies could be developed to treat these specific diseases. Proponents also say this initiative is necessary because federal funding for this kind of research has become unreliable under the current administration. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jillian McCool: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:04:58] \u003c/em>The big thing right now is that current CAR T therapy is really expensive. It’s not as efficient as we want it to be. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:05] \u003c/em>So I spoke to one researcher who was working on a project funded by the NIH, the National Institutes of Health. Her name is Jillian McCool, and she was working at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory studying vaccines and a kind of therapy for cancer. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jillian McCool: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:20] \u003c/em>We basically can take your immune cells and we can take them out of your body and we an alter them so they’re better fit and better suited to fight cancer cells specifically. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:29] \u003c/em>And then some of their grants ran out after they reached the end of the term, but then some of the funding was paused because of the most recent government shutdown. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jillian McCool: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:38] \u003c/em>All of the sudden we have this weird rhetoric around vaccines and all of the sudden there’s this new administration coming in that’s kind of pushing that rhetoric. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:47] \u003c/em>McCool says about 100 scientists were laid off, including her. She was out of work for a year and a half. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jillian McCool: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:54] \u003c/em>And then the public is no longer trusting scientists and what they have to say in the data we’ve collected, it kind of makes you question your whole career in general. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:05] \u003c/em>So it’s personal for McCool, but she says Prop 38 is a way to correct what’s happening at the federal level and protect the jobs of lots of other scientists. She also says, you know, California is a center of excellence in this kind of research, and so it makes sense to root it here. She also points out that the measure is designed to be cost neutral, with 10% of revenues generated from successful discoveries being funneled back to the state. Californians would also be entitled to a 20% discount on any new therapies that are generated from the bond money.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:41] \u003c/em>And a big part of immunotherapy research is directed towards cancer research and you actually met a cancer patient who’s pretty gung-ho about Prop 38, right? Tell me about her. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laurie Adami: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:52] \u003c/em>My name is Laurie Adami and I live in Los Angeles, California. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:57] \u003c/em>Laurie was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. It’s a kind of blood cancer, and this was 20 years ago. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laurie Adami: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:04] \u003c/em>And when I got sick and I ended up losing my career as a result of my very long battle with cancer. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:13] \u003c/em>Several years ago, she enrolled in a clinical trial for an immunotherapy called CAR-T. So, Laurie had one infusion of this immunotherapy about eight years ago and her cancer has not come back since. Now, she’s only one person. You know, it’s important to point out there’s still a large proportion of patients who participated in these trials who did not respond in the same way. But as you can imagine, Laurie is pretty gung-ho for Prop 38. Because of the prospect that it could fund more research and develop more treatments like this to fight other kinds of cancers and other diseases and help more people. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laurie Adami: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:54] \u003c/em>You know, not every family is gonna be affected by cancer, but every family is gonna affected by these other diseases. And so I am a huge proponent and supporter because immunotherapy saved my life. So why wouldn’t I believe? And why wouldn’t I want more patients to be able to access the type of treatment that finally saved my live? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:23] \u003c/em>We’ll have more on Proposition 38 right after this. By the way, if you appreciate the work we’re doing here on PropFest, consider becoming a sustaining member of KQED. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. We’ll be right back. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:47] \u003c/em>And we’re back breaking down Proposition 38 with KQED’s April Dembosky. April, you talked about the various different groups supporting Prop 38, including a patient who really believes in the power of immunotherapy research to potentially save lives. So who’s coming out against Prop 38 and what is their argument? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:10] \u003c/em>Yeah, so there’s a very small group of opponents. They’re pretty much all volunteers. It’s very grassroots. And they have organized to point out what they see as the weaknesses and even what they might call the dangers of Prop 38\u003cem>.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Robert Kaplan: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:26] \u003c/em>I just think that there are inherent conflicts of interest. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:29] \u003c/em>The main one is Robert Kaplan. He’s a biomedical researcher and administrator at Stanford University School of Medicine. And he also worked at the NIH, the National Institutes of Health. So he has a lot of experience coordinating the kind of research that we’re talking about and at a really grand scale. So he says he supports biomedical research. He’s in favor of science, including immunotherapy. But he says this proposition is not the way to fund it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Robert Kaplan: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:58] \u003c/em>If you look at NIH support for biomedical research in general or immunology research, there are several institutions in California that are the national leaders, but because of the sort of arbitrary criteria in Proposition 38, they’re not eligible to compete. And we think that’s not right.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:17] \u003c/em>So science grants are usually awarded based on an open, competitive process. People have to have a proven track record. He says it’s a good idea to spread that kind of research across different institutions, so you have different people with different ideas and different methodology. But half of the money for Prop 38 goes directly to one brand new institute that is barely off the ground yet, and it has zero track record. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Robert Kaplan: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:47] \u003c/em>I think [if] taxpayers are going to have to repay these bonds. We think that should be a fair competition that allows all of these excellent institutions in California to have an opportunity to be in that competition. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:59] \u003c/em>The opponents would really point out it’s only for immunotherapy and immunology research. So if you think that there are other kinds of health priorities, like mental illness or kidney disease or other kinds treatments, those are not included here. The other people speaking out against Prop 38, they’re a very interesting group. They are financial analysts who used to work at the LAO. That’s the Legislative Analyst’s Office. And this is a nonpartisan state agency. It’s tasked with evaluating proposed legislation and ballot measures like this one. And they are trained to never take a stand on political issues. And in this case, three retired analysts from the LAOs are breaking that wall, because of their concerns on Prop 38.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Carson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:56] \u003c/em>Hi. I’m Dan Carson. I’m here today as a cancer survivor myself, who is obviously not against good medical research.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:05] \u003c/em>So one of them is Dan Carson. He ran the health section of the LAO back in 2004 when another bond measure was on the ballot to fund stem cell research. So proponents said the $3 billion for that initiative would be paid back by all the new stem cell discoveries that researchers made with the money.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Carson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:26] \u003c/em>In fact, as our analysis at the time made really clear, the state eventually received only a tiny fraction of the billions of dollars we were promised. So here we go again with Prop 38. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:41] \u003c/em>The opponents of Prop 38 take issue with one of the main claims that the supporters of Prop 38 have, which is they say that the proposition will be cost neutral, that the money that California borrows and spends on the research will be made back by revenues from all of the scientific discoveries that they made. The LAO analysts say the math just doesn’t add up. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dan Carson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:08] \u003c/em>Oh, once again, we’re being promised in this initiative and by its advocates that will quote, pay for itself with no net cost to the state or taxpayers, closed quote. I’m here to tell you that after reviewing the fine print of this ballot measure, that won’t happen. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:32] \u003c/em>April, what’s spending on Prop 38 looking like on either side, the yes and the no side? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:38] \u003c/em>So the Yes on Prop 38 campaign has raised about $27 million so far, and that comes mainly from Gary Michaelson and another billionaire who have donated to the same institute that would be the main beneficiary of the Prop 38 funds. The no side has not raised any money so far.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:59] \u003c/em>It seems like we as voters are sort of being asked to decide how scientific research should happen almost and the best way to go about that. How do you think voters should sort of navigate the question being asked before them? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:15] \u003c/em>It’s such a tricky one to put voters in a position of having to become experts on a field of science that maybe they haven’t even heard about. Totally, that’s how I feel. Right. You know, I think on its face, Prop 38 is very appealing and we’ve seen various ballot measures over the years that are healthcare oriented and we find that they often play well. For people who feel really strongly about this area of research, they may feel happy to have the opportunity to vote on something like this and set aside a pot of money that is just for this kind of research. On the other hand, the way that this proposition is worded and the way the money would be distributed looks very, very different from the kind of process that’s used at the federal level. So you’re not just creating a new fund for stability, you’re actually creating a new way of how that science gets funded and how the money gets distributed. Propositions like this, you could say are direct democracy, but in another way, they also circumvent that other democratic process.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:15:35] \u003c/em>Well, April Dombosky, thank you so much for breaking this down. Appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>April Dembosky: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:15:40] \u003c/em>Thanks, Ericka.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:15:42] \u003c/em>In a nutshell, a yes vote on this measure means the state could borrow $8.4 billion to support medical research in immunology and immunotherapy. A no vote means the state cannot borrow 8.4 billion for immunology, and immunotherapy research. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:02] \u003c/em>And that’s it for our latest episode of PropFest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. If this series is helping you get educated on all the statewide props, we sure hope that you’re going to share them with your friends and family. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:16] \u003c/em>The link is kqed.org slash propfest and we’ll be dropping new breakdowns until October 9th. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:24] \u003c/em>PropFest is made possible thanks to Katrina Schwartz, Pauline Bartolone, Anna Casalme, Ericka Cruz Guevara, Gabriela Glueck. Christopher Beale, Alan Montecillo. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:35] \u003c/em>And me, Olivia Allen Price. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:37] \u003c/em>We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Springer, Jen Chien. Ethan Tovan Lindsey and everyone on Team KQED. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:46] \u003c/em>Our show is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:51] \u003c/em>Support for The Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:17:08] \u003c/em>And I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Have a good one. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:00] You may remember that in 2021, California voters were asked whether or not to recall Governor Gavin Newsom from office.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:08] But there was also a second question on the ballot. Who should replace him if he was recalled?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:15] Obviously, the recall failed, but if it was successful, Newsom would have technically been replaced by Republican Larry Elder, who won about 48% of the vote in that second question.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:29] And that’s how the process works for state-wide recall elections right now.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:33] But proposition five could change that.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:37] I’m Olivia Allen Price, host of Bay Curious.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:40] And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara, host of The Bay.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:43] Welcome to Prop Fest, a collaboration between The Bay and BayCurious. And we’re back again with another episode to help you get up to speed on all the statewide propositions on the ballot this November.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:54] Today, we’re breaking down proposition five. Here’s how it reads on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover \u003c/strong>[00:01:00] Prop 5 – Changes recall election process for statewide officers\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:07] Here to break it down for us is KQED’s politics and government correspondent, Guy Marzorati. Hey Guy.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:14] Hey, how’s it going?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:15] Good. So this proposition that we’re talking about today pertains to recall reform. Before we dive in here, how exactly do recalls for people in statewide office currently work in California?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:31] Yeah, so the rules for recall in California are different for state office and local office. For local office, it’s probably somewhat of a familiar process for people. There’s a question on the ballot, should this person be removed from office? If they are removed, then how the next person gets chosen can result in a variety of ways. So if you remember the Oakland mayor recall, there was a special election after that. There was the district attorney recalls in Alameda and SF. The replacements there were appointed. State recalls work a little bit differently where voters are asked two questions on the ballot. One is, should this statewide official be removed? And then the second question is, if they are removed, who should replace them? And there’s a list of candidates that voters get to choose from. And what proposition five would do is eliminate that second question, that question about the successor.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:30] And as you just mentioned, and just to clarify for voters, Prop 5 specifically pertains to recalls for statewide office, right? Not local office. So what kinds of elected positions are we talking about here?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:02:45] That’s right, so this would only apply to statewide offices like governor, like attorney general and like state legislative offices, so assembly and Senate. And basically what it would do is make state recall elections more like local recall elections where there’s only one question on the ballot and it’s asking whether or not this elected official should be removed from office.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:06] And just for some background here, Guy, how often have recall campaigns been actually put before California voters in the past when it comes to these statewide offices? Like have sitting politicians actually even been recalled before?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:03:23] Yes. So since voters in California approved this recall process more than a hundred years ago, goes all the way back to 1911, there have been 11 recall elections against statewide officials. Of those six recalls have been successful. Five recall elections have been unsuccessful. The most famous successful recall election was in 2003, when Governor Gray Davis, a Democrat, was recalled by voters. And Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger won the successor election and became governor.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover \u003c/strong>[00:03:55] The recall campaign against Governor Gray-Davis is gathering steam with the launch of the\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover \u003c/strong>[00:03:59] Governor Gray Davis is hurting our state and our people. First question you’re asked, do you believe it should be recalled? Then the second question is, should it be recalled, who would you like to see replace it? And it’s an open primary, one ballot. And whoever gets the most vote, if a majority say yes on recall, immediately becomes the governor of California.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:04:23] And the proponents of this measure sort of point to that election as a reason to make these kind of changes that Prop 5 is proposing, right?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:04:36] Yeah, you know, I think supporters say it’s fundamentally unfair that someone can win a successor election on a recall ballot and not get a majority vote, which can happen if there’s a if there is a recall against a state official and a majority of voters elect to recall that official, the top replacement candidate doesn’t need to get a majority vote. They just need to finish first and suddenly they take that office. So supporters of Proposition 5 say… This is basically a loophole. This is a workaround where someone could potentially become governor of California without ever getting a majority vote.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:05:13] So I get that that second question won’t be there on the ballot if Prop 5 is passed, but let’s say that the person does get recalled. What happens next in this Prop 5 universe? Like are they outed immediately or who takes their place at least temporarily?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:05:32] If you’re recalling a state legislator, so a state senator or a state assembly member, what will happen is there could be a special election called after the fact, where a new state legislate is picked. In the case of statewide offices, like attorney general, like secretary of state, a new secretary of State, a new attorney general will be appointed. In the cases of the governor, basically the lieutenant governor would take over And then there would be. An election to replace or to pick the next governor. So if it happens early in the governor’s term, there would be a special election taking place at the next statewide election where our voters would get to choose and vote on a new governor. If it happens late in that governor’s turn, the lieutenant governor would simply just fill the seat until the regularly scheduled election for governor.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:24] We’ll have more with KQED’s Guy Marzorati right after this break. By the way, if you appreciate the work we’re doing here on PopFest, consider becoming a sustaining KQED member. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:49] And let’s get into the politics of this a little bit, Guy. Who else is sort of pushing for Prop 5 to be passed?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:06:57] Yeah, so this is really turned into kind of a partisan divide on Proposition 5, where we see the California Democratic Party in support, almost entirely Democrats in the legislature voted to put this on the ballot. And one of the top supporters of Proposition five is Shirley Weber, who’s California the secretary of state, the top election official.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirley Weber \u003c/strong>[00:07:17] This was a way in which people could game the system, looking for a time when we had low voter turnout. Then we’d have all these folks on the ballot and then you’d pick somebody and they’d have 30% or 20% of whatever it was.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:07:27] She said her office started working on these potential reforms to introduce them after the unsuccessful recall of Newsom in 2021. And here’s Weber talking about their proposal at a state Senate hearing.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirley Weber \u003c/strong>[00:07:40] The whole election about, should this person be recalled? So that the discussion is on the merit of the recall itself, not on is there a better replacement, but should this be person be recall? Has there been enough?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:07:51] Proponents here are really arguing that the state should avoid what happened in the last two recall elections for governor. What we’ve seen in the past is, when there’s a recall facing someone like Gray Davis, or in 2021, we saw this, a recall-facing Gavin Newsom, there’s also this second campaign that plays out in parallel about, okay, well, who should the replacement candidate be? Who should the top replacement candidate? This would eliminate that second part, and supporters say, well yes, this will really allow the conversation and the debate to focus on whether or not this person facing a recall actually deserves to be removed from office.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:08:29] Who is opposed to this measure and why?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:08:31] The opposition has come from Republicans, California’s Republican Party, Republicans in the state legislature, who have really argued against making this change the state’s recall rules.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carl DeMaio \u003c/strong>[00:08:43] This is insane. We should be able to continue the process for recalls where if someone is being recalled from office, we first vote on the ballot. And secondly, we say, if they’re recalled, here’s who we want to take over representation.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:08:57] Republican Assemblymember Carl DeMaio is running an effort to support and oppose a few different measures, including oppose Proposition 5. And the argument you really hear from opponents of Prop 5 is that the recall system is working as it is.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carl DeMaio \u003c/strong>[00:09:12] Please don’t weaken the recall provision in the state constitution. It’s one of the only things we have to hold politicians accountable.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:09:19] There doesn’t need to be any changes to it. It has existed in the state for over 100 years. They say the idea of having a governor be removed by the will of the people, by the voters, only to have a lieutenant governor come in and take their place is not really the change that voters who are pushing a recall are looking for in the first place. We see in modern day in California, the governor and lieutenant governor are almost always Democratic. And so if there’s a recall election against the governor, voters are seeking change. Number one, having just the next Democrat in line take that office might not really reflect to the will of what brought the voters to a recall. And secondly, the lieutenant governor would then serve as governor without ever having been elected. So if the argument for Proposition 5 is that a successor could take office with less than 50% of the vote, well Under Prop 5, the lieutenant governor would take office and they didn’t get any of the vote for governor. So opponents of Prop 5 see this as real flaws with the measure.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:10:25] And is anyone throwing lots of money into Prop 5 on either side? And any sense guy of how likely this is to pass?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:10:36] You know, we haven’t seen any campaign spending with Proposition 5 on either side. In mid-September, the Public Policy Institute of California released polling on the statewide measures and it showed just 35% of voters supporting Proposition five with 59% opposed. In what really looks like another example of California voters appearing hesitant to make really any changes to the state system of direct democracy.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:02] Well, Guy, thank you so much, as always, for breaking this one down. Appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:11:06] Of course, thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Your support makes KQED podcasts possible. You can show your love by going to \u003ca href=\"https://kqed.org/donate/podcasts\">https://kqed.org/donate/podcasts\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>This story was reported by Guy Marzorati. Prop Fest is a collaboration between Bay Curious and The Bay. It’s made by Olivia Allen-Price, Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale, Anna Casalme, Ericka Cruz Guevarra, Alan Montecillo, Gabriela Glueck and Pauline Bartolone. Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad, Ethan Toven-Lindsey and everyone on Team KQED.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:00] You may remember that in 2021, California voters were asked whether or not to recall Governor Gavin Newsom from office.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:00] You may remember that in 2021, California voters were asked whether or not to recall Governor Gavin Newsom from office.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:08] But there was also a second question on the ballot. Who should replace him if he was recalled?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:08] But there was also a second question on the ballot. Who should replace him if he was recalled?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:15] Obviously, the recall failed, but if it was successful, Newsom would have technically been replaced by Republican Larry Elder, who won about 48% of the vote in that second question.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:15] Obviously, the recall failed, but if it was successful, Newsom would have technically been replaced by Republican Larry Elder, who won about 48% of the vote in that second question.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:29] And that’s how the process works for state-wide recall elections right now.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:29] And that’s how the process works for state-wide recall elections right now.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:33] But proposition five could change that.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:33] But proposition five could change that.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:37] I’m Olivia Allen Price, host of Bay Curious.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:37] I’m Olivia Allen Price, host of Bay Curious.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:40] And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara, host of The Bay.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:40] And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara, host of The Bay.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:43] Welcome to Prop Fest, a collaboration between The Bay and BayCurious. And we’re back again with another episode to help you get up to speed on all the statewide propositions on the ballot this November.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:43] Welcome to Prop Fest, a collaboration between The Bay and BayCurious. And we’re back again with another episode to help you get up to speed on all the statewide propositions on the ballot this November.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:54] Today, we’re breaking down proposition five. Here’s how it reads on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:54] Today, we’re breaking down proposition five. Here’s how it reads on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover \u003c/strong>[00:01:00] Prop 5 – Changes recall election process for statewide officers\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:07] Here to break it down for us is KQED’s politics and government correspondent, Guy Marzorati. Hey Guy.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:07] Here to break it down for us is KQED’s politics and government correspondent, Guy Marzorati. Hey Guy.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:14] Hey, how’s it going?\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:15] Good. So this proposition that we’re talking about today pertains to recall reform. Before we dive in here, how exactly do recalls for people in statewide office currently work in California?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:15] Good. So this proposition that we’re talking about today pertains to recall reform. Before we dive in here, how exactly do recalls for people in statewide office currently work in California?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:31] Yeah, so the rules for recall in California are different for state office and local office. For local office, it’s probably somewhat of a familiar process for people. There’s a question on the ballot, should this person be removed from office? If they are removed, then how the next person gets chosen can result in a variety of ways. So if you remember the Oakland mayor recall, there was a special election after that. There was the district attorney recalls in Alameda and SF. The replacements there were appointed. State recalls work a little bit differently where voters are asked two questions on the ballot. One is, should this statewide official be removed? And then the second question is, if they are removed, who should replace them? And there’s a list of candidates that voters get to choose from. And what proposition five would do is eliminate that second question, that question about the successor.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:31] Yeah, so the rules for recall in California are different for state office and local office. For local office, it’s probably somewhat of a familiar process for people. There’s a question on the ballot, should this person be removed from office? If they are removed, then how the next person gets chosen can result in a variety of ways. So if you remember the Oakland mayor recall, there was a special election after that. There was the district attorney recalls in Alameda and SF. The replacements there were appointed. State recalls work a little bit differently where voters are asked two questions on the ballot. One is, should this statewide official be removed? And then the second question is, if they are removed, who should replace them? And there’s a list of candidates that voters get to choose from. And what proposition five would do is eliminate that second question, that question about the successor.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:30] And as you just mentioned, and just to clarify for voters, Prop 5 specifically pertains to recalls for statewide office, right? Not local office. So what kinds of elected positions are we talking about here?\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:02:45] That’s right, so this would only apply to statewide offices like governor, like attorney general and like state legislative offices, so assembly and Senate. And basically what it would do is make state recall elections more like local recall elections where there’s only one question on the ballot and it’s asking whether or not this elected official should be removed from office.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:02:45] That’s right, so this would only apply to statewide offices like governor, like attorney general and like state legislative offices, so assembly and Senate. And basically what it would do is make state recall elections more like local recall elections where there’s only one question on the ballot and it’s asking whether or not this elected official should be removed from office.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:06] And just for some background here, Guy, how often have recall campaigns been actually put before California voters in the past when it comes to these statewide offices? Like have sitting politicians actually even been recalled before?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:06] And just for some background here, Guy, how often have recall campaigns been actually put before California voters in the past when it comes to these statewide offices? Like have sitting politicians actually even been recalled before?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:03:23] Yes. So since voters in California approved this recall process more than a hundred years ago, goes all the way back to 1911, there have been 11 recall elections against statewide officials. Of those six recalls have been successful. Five recall elections have been unsuccessful. The most famous successful recall election was in 2003, when Governor Gray Davis, a Democrat, was recalled by voters. And Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger won the successor election and became governor.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:03:23] Yes. So since voters in California approved this recall process more than a hundred years ago, goes all the way back to 1911, there have been 11 recall elections against statewide officials. Of those six recalls have been successful. Five recall elections have been unsuccessful. The most famous successful recall election was in 2003, when Governor Gray Davis, a Democrat, was recalled by voters. And Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger won the successor election and became governor.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover \u003c/strong>[00:03:55] The recall campaign against Governor Gray-Davis is gathering steam with the launch of the\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover \u003c/strong>[00:03:59] Governor Gray Davis is hurting our state and our people. First question you’re asked, do you believe it should be recalled? Then the second question is, should it be recalled, who would you like to see replace it? And it’s an open primary, one ballot. And whoever gets the most vote, if a majority say yes on recall, immediately becomes the governor of California.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover \u003c/strong>[00:03:59] Governor Gray Davis is hurting our state and our people. First question you’re asked, do you believe it should be recalled? Then the second question is, should it be recalled, who would you like to see replace it? And it’s an open primary, one ballot. And whoever gets the most vote, if a majority say yes on recall, immediately becomes the governor of California.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:04:23] And the proponents of this measure sort of point to that election as a reason to make these kind of changes that Prop 5 is proposing, right?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:04:23] And the proponents of this measure sort of point to that election as a reason to make these kind of changes that Prop 5 is proposing, right?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:04:36] Yeah, you know, I think supporters say it’s fundamentally unfair that someone can win a successor election on a recall ballot and not get a majority vote, which can happen if there’s a if there is a recall against a state official and a majority of voters elect to recall that official, the top replacement candidate doesn’t need to get a majority vote. They just need to finish first and suddenly they take that office. So supporters of Proposition 5 say… This is basically a loophole. This is a workaround where someone could potentially become governor of California without ever getting a majority vote.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:04:36] Yeah, you know, I think supporters say it’s fundamentally unfair that someone can win a successor election on a recall ballot and not get a majority vote, which can happen if there’s a if there is a recall against a state official and a majority of voters elect to recall that official, the top replacement candidate doesn’t need to get a majority vote. They just need to finish first and suddenly they take that office. So supporters of Proposition 5 say… This is basically a loophole. This is a workaround where someone could potentially become governor of California without ever getting a majority vote.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:05:13] So I get that that second question won’t be there on the ballot if Prop 5 is passed, but let’s say that the person does get recalled. What happens next in this Prop 5 universe? Like are they outed immediately or who takes their place at least temporarily?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:05:13] So I get that that second question won’t be there on the ballot if Prop 5 is passed, but let’s say that the person does get recalled. What happens next in this Prop 5 universe? Like are they outed immediately or who takes their place at least temporarily?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:05:32] If you’re recalling a state legislator, so a state senator or a state assembly member, what will happen is there could be a special election called after the fact, where a new state legislate is picked. In the case of statewide offices, like attorney general, like secretary of state, a new secretary of State, a new attorney general will be appointed. In the cases of the governor, basically the lieutenant governor would take over And then there would be. An election to replace or to pick the next governor. So if it happens early in the governor’s term, there would be a special election taking place at the next statewide election where our voters would get to choose and vote on a new governor. If it happens late in that governor’s turn, the lieutenant governor would simply just fill the seat until the regularly scheduled election for governor.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:05:32] If you’re recalling a state legislator, so a state senator or a state assembly member, what will happen is there could be a special election called after the fact, where a new state legislate is picked. In the case of statewide offices, like attorney general, like secretary of state, a new secretary of State, a new attorney general will be appointed. In the cases of the governor, basically the lieutenant governor would take over And then there would be. An election to replace or to pick the next governor. So if it happens early in the governor’s term, there would be a special election taking place at the next statewide election where our voters would get to choose and vote on a new governor. If it happens late in that governor’s turn, the lieutenant governor would simply just fill the seat until the regularly scheduled election for governor.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:24] We’ll have more with KQED’s Guy Marzorati right after this break. By the way, if you appreciate the work we’re doing here on PopFest, consider becoming a sustaining KQED member. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:24] We’ll have more with KQED’s Guy Marzorati right after this break. By the way, if you appreciate the work we’re doing here on PopFest, consider becoming a sustaining KQED member. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:49] And let’s get into the politics of this a little bit, Guy. Who else is sort of pushing for Prop 5 to be passed?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:49] And let’s get into the politics of this a little bit, Guy. Who else is sort of pushing for Prop 5 to be passed?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:06:57] Yeah, so this is really turned into kind of a partisan divide on Proposition 5, where we see the California Democratic Party in support, almost entirely Democrats in the legislature voted to put this on the ballot. And one of the top supporters of Proposition five is Shirley Weber, who’s California the secretary of state, the top election official.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirley Weber \u003c/strong>[00:07:17] This was a way in which people could game the system, looking for a time when we had low voter turnout. Then we’d have all these folks on the ballot and then you’d pick somebody and they’d have 30% or 20% of whatever it was.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirley Weber \u003c/strong>[00:07:17] This was a way in which people could game the system, looking for a time when we had low voter turnout. Then we’d have all these folks on the ballot and then you’d pick somebody and they’d have 30% or 20% of whatever it was.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:07:27] She said her office started working on these potential reforms to introduce them after the unsuccessful recall of Newsom in 2021. And here’s Weber talking about their proposal at a state Senate hearing.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:07:27] She said her office started working on these potential reforms to introduce them after the unsuccessful recall of Newsom in 2021. And here’s Weber talking about their proposal at a state Senate hearing.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirley Weber \u003c/strong>[00:07:40] The whole election about, should this person be recalled? So that the discussion is on the merit of the recall itself, not on is there a better replacement, but should this be person be recall? Has there been enough?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirley Weber \u003c/strong>[00:07:40] The whole election about, should this person be recalled? So that the discussion is on the merit of the recall itself, not on is there a better replacement, but should this be person be recall? Has there been enough?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:07:51] Proponents here are really arguing that the state should avoid what happened in the last two recall elections for governor. What we’ve seen in the past is, when there’s a recall facing someone like Gray Davis, or in 2021, we saw this, a recall-facing Gavin Newsom, there’s also this second campaign that plays out in parallel about, okay, well, who should the replacement candidate be? Who should the top replacement candidate? This would eliminate that second part, and supporters say, well yes, this will really allow the conversation and the debate to focus on whether or not this person facing a recall actually deserves to be removed from office.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:07:51] Proponents here are really arguing that the state should avoid what happened in the last two recall elections for governor. What we’ve seen in the past is, when there’s a recall facing someone like Gray Davis, or in 2021, we saw this, a recall-facing Gavin Newsom, there’s also this second campaign that plays out in parallel about, okay, well, who should the replacement candidate be? Who should the top replacement candidate? This would eliminate that second part, and supporters say, well yes, this will really allow the conversation and the debate to focus on whether or not this person facing a recall actually deserves to be removed from office.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:08:29] Who is opposed to this measure and why?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:08:29] Who is opposed to this measure and why?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:08:31] The opposition has come from Republicans, California’s Republican Party, Republicans in the state legislature, who have really argued against making this change the state’s recall rules.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:08:31] The opposition has come from Republicans, California’s Republican Party, Republicans in the state legislature, who have really argued against making this change the state’s recall rules.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carl DeMaio \u003c/strong>[00:08:43] This is insane. We should be able to continue the process for recalls where if someone is being recalled from office, we first vote on the ballot. And secondly, we say, if they’re recalled, here’s who we want to take over representation.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carl DeMaio \u003c/strong>[00:08:43] This is insane. We should be able to continue the process for recalls where if someone is being recalled from office, we first vote on the ballot. And secondly, we say, if they’re recalled, here’s who we want to take over representation.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:08:57] Republican Assemblymember Carl DeMaio is running an effort to support and oppose a few different measures, including oppose Proposition 5. And the argument you really hear from opponents of Prop 5 is that the recall system is working as it is.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:08:57] Republican Assemblymember Carl DeMaio is running an effort to support and oppose a few different measures, including oppose Proposition 5. And the argument you really hear from opponents of Prop 5 is that the recall system is working as it is.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carl DeMaio \u003c/strong>[00:09:12] Please don’t weaken the recall provision in the state constitution. It’s one of the only things we have to hold politicians accountable.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carl DeMaio \u003c/strong>[00:09:12] Please don’t weaken the recall provision in the state constitution. It’s one of the only things we have to hold politicians accountable.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:09:19] There doesn’t need to be any changes to it. It has existed in the state for over 100 years. They say the idea of having a governor be removed by the will of the people, by the voters, only to have a lieutenant governor come in and take their place is not really the change that voters who are pushing a recall are looking for in the first place. We see in modern day in California, the governor and lieutenant governor are almost always Democratic. And so if there’s a recall election against the governor, voters are seeking change. Number one, having just the next Democrat in line take that office might not really reflect to the will of what brought the voters to a recall. And secondly, the lieutenant governor would then serve as governor without ever having been elected. So if the argument for Proposition 5 is that a successor could take office with less than 50% of the vote, well Under Prop 5, the lieutenant governor would take office and they didn’t get any of the vote for governor. So opponents of Prop 5 see this as real flaws with the measure.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:09:19] There doesn’t need to be any changes to it. It has existed in the state for over 100 years. They say the idea of having a governor be removed by the will of the people, by the voters, only to have a lieutenant governor come in and take their place is not really the change that voters who are pushing a recall are looking for in the first place. We see in modern day in California, the governor and lieutenant governor are almost always Democratic. And so if there’s a recall election against the governor, voters are seeking change. Number one, having just the next Democrat in line take that office might not really reflect to the will of what brought the voters to a recall. And secondly, the lieutenant governor would then serve as governor without ever having been elected. So if the argument for Proposition 5 is that a successor could take office with less than 50% of the vote, well Under Prop 5, the lieutenant governor would take office and they didn’t get any of the vote for governor. So opponents of Prop 5 see this as real flaws with the measure.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:10:25] And is anyone throwing lots of money into Prop 5 on either side? And any sense guy of how likely this is to pass?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:10:25] And is anyone throwing lots of money into Prop 5 on either side? And any sense guy of how likely this is to pass?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:10:36] You know, we haven’t seen any campaign spending with Proposition 5 on either side. In mid-September, the Public Policy Institute of California released polling on the statewide measures and it showed just 35% of voters supporting Proposition five with 59% opposed. In what really looks like another example of California voters appearing hesitant to make really any changes to the state system of direct democracy.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:10:36] You know, we haven’t seen any campaign spending with Proposition 5 on either side. In mid-September, the Public Policy Institute of California released polling on the statewide measures and it showed just 35% of voters supporting Proposition five with 59% opposed. In what really looks like another example of California voters appearing hesitant to make really any changes to the state system of direct democracy.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:02] Well, Guy, thank you so much, as always, for breaking this one down. Appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:02] Well, Guy, thank you so much, as always, for breaking this one down. Appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:11:06] Of course, thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:11:06] Of course, thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Your support makes KQED podcasts possible. You can show your love by going to \u003ca href=\"https://kqed.org/donate/podcasts\">https://kqed.org/donate/podcasts\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>This story was reported by Guy Marzorati. Prop Fest is a collaboration between Bay Curious and The Bay. It’s made by Olivia Allen-Price, Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale, Anna Casalme, Ericka Cruz Guevarra, Alan Montecillo, Gabriela Glueck and Pauline Bartolone. Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad, Ethan Toven-Lindsey and everyone on Team KQED.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>This story was reported by Guy Marzorati. Prop Fest is a collaboration between Bay Curious and The Bay. It’s made by Olivia Allen-Price, Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale, Anna Casalme, Ericka Cruz Guevarra, Alan Montecillo, Gabriela Glueck and Pauline Bartolone. Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad, Ethan Toven-Lindsey and everyone on Team KQED.\u003c/p>\n"
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:00] You may remember that in 2021, California voters were asked whether or not to recall Governor Gavin Newsom from office.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:08] But there was also a second question on the ballot. Who should replace him if he was recalled?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:15] Obviously, the recall failed, but if it was successful, Newsom would have technically been replaced by Republican Larry Elder, who won about 48% of the vote in that second question.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:29] And that’s how the process works for state-wide recall elections right now.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:33] But proposition five could change that.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:37] I’m Olivia Allen Price, host of Bay Curious.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:40] And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara, host of The Bay.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:43] Welcome to Prop Fest, a collaboration between The Bay and BayCurious. And we’re back again with another episode to help you get up to speed on all the statewide propositions on the ballot this November.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:54] Today, we’re breaking down proposition five. Here’s how it reads on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover \u003c/strong>[00:01:00] Prop 5 – Changes recall election process for statewide officers\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:07] Here to break it down for us is KQED’s politics and government correspondent, Guy Marzorati. Hey Guy.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:14] Hey, how’s it going?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:15] Good. So this proposition that we’re talking about today pertains to recall reform. Before we dive in here, how exactly do recalls for people in statewide office currently work in California?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:31] Yeah, so the rules for recall in California are different for state office and local office. For local office, it’s probably somewhat of a familiar process for people. There’s a question on the ballot, should this person be removed from office? If they are removed, then how the next person gets chosen can result in a variety of ways. So if you remember the Oakland mayor recall, there was a special election after that. There was the district attorney recalls in Alameda and SF. The replacements there were appointed. State recalls work a little bit differently where voters are asked two questions on the ballot. One is, should this statewide official be removed? And then the second question is, if they are removed, who should replace them? And there’s a list of candidates that voters get to choose from. And what proposition five would do is eliminate that second question, that question about the successor.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:30] And as you just mentioned, and just to clarify for voters, Prop 5 specifically pertains to recalls for statewide office, right? Not local office. So what kinds of elected positions are we talking about here?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:02:45] That’s right, so this would only apply to statewide offices like governor, like attorney general and like state legislative offices, so assembly and Senate. And basically what it would do is make state recall elections more like local recall elections where there’s only one question on the ballot and it’s asking whether or not this elected official should be removed from office.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:06] And just for some background here, Guy, how often have recall campaigns been actually put before California voters in the past when it comes to these statewide offices? Like have sitting politicians actually even been recalled before?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:03:23] Yes. So since voters in California approved this recall process more than a hundred years ago, goes all the way back to 1911, there have been 11 recall elections against statewide officials. Of those six recalls have been successful. Five recall elections have been unsuccessful. The most famous successful recall election was in 2003, when Governor Gray Davis, a Democrat, was recalled by voters. And Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger won the successor election and became governor.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover \u003c/strong>[00:03:55] The recall campaign against Governor Gray-Davis is gathering steam with the launch of the\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover \u003c/strong>[00:03:59] Governor Gray Davis is hurting our state and our people. First question you’re asked, do you believe it should be recalled? Then the second question is, should it be recalled, who would you like to see replace it? And it’s an open primary, one ballot. And whoever gets the most vote, if a majority say yes on recall, immediately becomes the governor of California.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:04:23] And the proponents of this measure sort of point to that election as a reason to make these kind of changes that Prop 5 is proposing, right?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:04:36] Yeah, you know, I think supporters say it’s fundamentally unfair that someone can win a successor election on a recall ballot and not get a majority vote, which can happen if there’s a if there is a recall against a state official and a majority of voters elect to recall that official, the top replacement candidate doesn’t need to get a majority vote. They just need to finish first and suddenly they take that office. So supporters of Proposition 5 say… This is basically a loophole. This is a workaround where someone could potentially become governor of California without ever getting a majority vote.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:05:13] So I get that that second question won’t be there on the ballot if Prop 5 is passed, but let’s say that the person does get recalled. What happens next in this Prop 5 universe? Like are they outed immediately or who takes their place at least temporarily?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:05:32] If you’re recalling a state legislator, so a state senator or a state assembly member, what will happen is there could be a special election called after the fact, where a new state legislate is picked. In the case of statewide offices, like attorney general, like secretary of state, a new secretary of State, a new attorney general will be appointed. In the cases of the governor, basically the lieutenant governor would take over And then there would be. An election to replace or to pick the next governor. So if it happens early in the governor’s term, there would be a special election taking place at the next statewide election where our voters would get to choose and vote on a new governor. If it happens late in that governor’s turn, the lieutenant governor would simply just fill the seat until the regularly scheduled election for governor.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:24] We’ll have more with KQED’s Guy Marzorati right after this break. By the way, if you appreciate the work we’re doing here on PopFest, consider becoming a sustaining KQED member. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org slash podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:49] And let’s get into the politics of this a little bit, Guy. Who else is sort of pushing for Prop 5 to be passed?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:06:57] Yeah, so this is really turned into kind of a partisan divide on Proposition 5, where we see the California Democratic Party in support, almost entirely Democrats in the legislature voted to put this on the ballot. And one of the top supporters of Proposition five is Shirley Weber, who’s California the secretary of state, the top election official.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirley Weber \u003c/strong>[00:07:17] This was a way in which people could game the system, looking for a time when we had low voter turnout. Then we’d have all these folks on the ballot and then you’d pick somebody and they’d have 30% or 20% of whatever it was.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:07:27] She said her office started working on these potential reforms to introduce them after the unsuccessful recall of Newsom in 2021. And here’s Weber talking about their proposal at a state Senate hearing.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirley Weber \u003c/strong>[00:07:40] The whole election about, should this person be recalled? So that the discussion is on the merit of the recall itself, not on is there a better replacement, but should this be person be recall? Has there been enough?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:07:51] Proponents here are really arguing that the state should avoid what happened in the last two recall elections for governor. What we’ve seen in the past is, when there’s a recall facing someone like Gray Davis, or in 2021, we saw this, a recall-facing Gavin Newsom, there’s also this second campaign that plays out in parallel about, okay, well, who should the replacement candidate be? Who should the top replacement candidate? This would eliminate that second part, and supporters say, well yes, this will really allow the conversation and the debate to focus on whether or not this person facing a recall actually deserves to be removed from office.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:08:29] Who is opposed to this measure and why?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:08:31] The opposition has come from Republicans, California’s Republican Party, Republicans in the state legislature, who have really argued against making this change the state’s recall rules.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carl DeMaio \u003c/strong>[00:08:43] This is insane. We should be able to continue the process for recalls where if someone is being recalled from office, we first vote on the ballot. And secondly, we say, if they’re recalled, here’s who we want to take over representation.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:08:57] Republican Assemblymember Carl DeMaio is running an effort to support and oppose a few different measures, including oppose Proposition 5. And the argument you really hear from opponents of Prop 5 is that the recall system is working as it is.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carl DeMaio \u003c/strong>[00:09:12] Please don’t weaken the recall provision in the state constitution. It’s one of the only things we have to hold politicians accountable.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:09:19] There doesn’t need to be any changes to it. It has existed in the state for over 100 years. They say the idea of having a governor be removed by the will of the people, by the voters, only to have a lieutenant governor come in and take their place is not really the change that voters who are pushing a recall are looking for in the first place. We see in modern day in California, the governor and lieutenant governor are almost always Democratic. And so if there’s a recall election against the governor, voters are seeking change. Number one, having just the next Democrat in line take that office might not really reflect to the will of what brought the voters to a recall. And secondly, the lieutenant governor would then serve as governor without ever having been elected. So if the argument for Proposition 5 is that a successor could take office with less than 50% of the vote, well Under Prop 5, the lieutenant governor would take office and they didn’t get any of the vote for governor. So opponents of Prop 5 see this as real flaws with the measure.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:10:25] And is anyone throwing lots of money into Prop 5 on either side? And any sense guy of how likely this is to pass?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:10:36] You know, we haven’t seen any campaign spending with Proposition 5 on either side. In mid-September, the Public Policy Institute of California released polling on the statewide measures and it showed just 35% of voters supporting Proposition five with 59% opposed. In what really looks like another example of California voters appearing hesitant to make really any changes to the state system of direct democracy.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:02] Well, Guy, thank you so much, as always, for breaking this one down. Appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:11:06] Of course, thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Your support makes KQED podcasts possible. You can show your love by going to \u003ca href=\"https://kqed.org/donate/podcasts\">https://kqed.org/donate/podcasts\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>This story was reported by Guy Marzorati. Prop Fest is a collaboration between Bay Curious and The Bay. It’s made by Olivia Allen-Price, Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale, Anna Casalme, Ericka Cruz Guevarra, Alan Montecillo, Gabriela Glueck and Pauline Bartolone. Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad, Ethan Toven-Lindsey and everyone on Team KQED.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:00] California has what’s known as a progressive tax system. Basically, the more money you make, the more you pay in income taxes.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:09] For years, California voters have approved certain tax rates for high-income earners. And now, Prop 3 could make some of those rates permanent.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:20] I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:23] And I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious. Welcome to Prop Fest. For two weeks, our teams at The Bay and Bay Curious are bringing you breakdowns of each statewide proposition on the California ballot, so you can vote smart this November.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:37] There are 14 propositions on the ballot this year, and we’ll be taking you through all of them.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:43] Today, we’re talking about Proposition 3. A bill that aims to lock in tax rates for high-income earners to pay for schools and health care in California. Here’s how it’ll read on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover \u003c/strong>[00:00:56] Prop 3 provides permanent funding for schools and health care by extending existing tax on high incomes.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:04] Here to walk us through Proposition 3 is politics and government correspondent Guy Marzorati. What’s up, Guy?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:10] Hey, you may remember me from Prop 2.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:14] I sure do. Thank you so much again for joining us on this one. This one seems pretty straightforward, I gotta say. But walk us through what Proposition 3 might do.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:24] Yeah, so this would permanently extend California’s current income tax rates on our top earners. So back in 2012, California voters approved a new higher tax bracket for the top 2% of income earners, California. Voters extended those taxes in 2016. Now it’s on the ballot again to make it permanent.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:45] Who are we talking about when we say high earners in California?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:49] Yeah, that’s a great question. So the folks who pay these taxes that are being proposed to be permanent under Proposition 3 are really just the top 2% of California income tax filers. Those individuals and families pay a marginal tax rate of a little over 10% on income above $371,000 for an individual or $743,000 for a family. And there are higher rates of just over 11% and 12% as you go up the income ladder to families making more than $1.5 million.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:23] So when you’re saying top earners also, just to be clear, we’re not talking about the billionaire’s tax.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:02:29] That’s right. No, we are not talking about Prop 40, the billionaire wealth tax. That is a measure about overall wealth for California billionaires. Proposition 3 is just about income taxes.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:43] And how much money could this bring in for California every year? And what are the kinds of things that this money would pay for?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:02:52] Yeah, so the California Budget and Policy Center has went back and looked at what kind of impact these higher tax rates have had. And basically, since they were enacted in 2012, these higher taxes have brought in about $120 billion for the state. In recent years, that’s been about $10 billion a year, so roughly like 4% of the overall state general fund. And so the big winners of these taxes are schools and health care because the vast majority of California state spending from the general fund goes to schools and goes to health care.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:27] And when you say health, Guy, you mean health and human services, so things like Medi-Cal.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:03:33] Yeah, so the biggest piece of that is Medi-Cal, which is our Medicaid system in California, basically our healthcare safety net for low-income working-class Californians.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:45] And let’s get into the politics of this measure. Who are the main proponents of preposition three and what are their arguments?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:03:53] So the main proponents of Proposition 3 are Democrats and Democrat-aligned groups, specifically the California Teachers Association, which is the biggest single proponent of Proposition 3. Their argument is these taxes are working. We’ve had them in place for more than a decade. They’re bringing in billions of dollars, and they really have championed California’s progressive tax system, saying it’s fair for the folks who earn the most income in state to pay at a higher rate. They’re also the biggest beneficiaries of these taxes. Again, the biggest slice of the pie for a California tax revenue is going to schools. And so I think it’s no surprise that you see the state’s biggest teachers unions getting behind Proposition 3 and wanting to make it permanent. Here’s David Goldberg, who’s president of the California Teachers Association, making an appeal for Prop 3 on Instagram.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>David Goldberg \u003c/strong>[00:04:45] Prop 3 will make permanent an already existing tax on wealthy Californians. We’re making out like gangbusters right now. We have to make the case to make sure that people know that investing and voting for Prop 3 is investing in us, in our communities, in our students, in our families, and in education.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:05:05] And then the California Budget and Policy Center has said that if the income tax on top earners doesn’t extend, the state’s income tax would become more regressive. Can you explain what they mean by that?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:05:19] Yeah, so basically the way that the state’s income tax system is set up right now is you have top earners paying at a higher rate, not just paying more because they earn more, but actually paying at higher rate than lower income earners. And so what that does is it creates a system that supporters say is fair, that you have people who are making the most money, paying a higher share into the state government. What that also does create though is more volatility because the people who were who the largest share of state taxation, it’s a smaller group. So if the stock market goes down or the economy goes down and that group is affected, you’re gonna see these swings up and down in state tax revenue.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:03] Or if our top earners leave California.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:06:07] Yes, and that’s I mean, this this kind of ties into the arguments that we’re seeing around Prop 40, the billionaire wealth tax, but this idea that if you know those high earners leave the state, then that could have an outsize impact on how much money the state is able to bring in because the state is relying so much on that kind of smaller group of wealthy individuals.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:31] We’ll have more on Proposition 3 with KQED’s Guy Marzorati right after this break. If you appreciate the work we’re doing here on Prop Fest, consider supporting the journalism we do here at KQED by becoming a sustaining member. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:07:07] Who’s coming out against Proposition 3, and what’s the argument on their end?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:07:12] Yeah, you really see an opposition from Republicans and kind of taxpayer advocacy groups, including the California Taxpayers Association, the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association, who have basically made the argument that Californians face too much of a burden in taxes, and that the state needs to start doing things to lower the tax burden on individuals. There is a group reform California led by Republican Assemblymember Carl DeMaio. He has come out against Proposition 3, but also against Proposition 40, which is the billionaire wealth tax. And here he is kind of wrapping up his opposition to multiple tax ideas that are on the ballot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carl DeMaio \u003c/strong>[00:07:54] I know some of you are probably saying, well, if it’s just going to apply to the rich, why not do it? They’re coming for you. But it also has a negative impact on our state budget. What happens when a high income earner leaves the state? Instead of paying a little bit more in taxes with the higher Prop 3 or Prop 40 tax rates, They take a hundred percent of their tax increment to another state and that state gets the revenue. We get zero.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:08:26] You also hear the argument that this tax was never meant to be permanent. When it was initially enacted back in 2012, it was championed by former Governor Jerry Brown. It came after Brown’s first two years in office where he really made some difficult cuts to state programs. And he turned to voters and said, look, I’ve been frugal. I’ve made these cuts. Now I need to ask you to pay more in order to kind of make the budget more stable. Voters approved that, but it was pitched as a temporary increase. Uh, that temporary increase was extended again in 2016 as a temporary increase. Now proposition three would make those higher income taxes permanent. So opponents of this say, you know, This is a bait and switch.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:13] Let’s talk about the money here. Is there anyone coming out to spend any money for or against this measure?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:09:20] We’ve seen funding for Proposition 3 overwhelmingly on the Yes campaign. There’s been over $40 million in support so far, and the vast majority of that — $33 million of the $43 million comes from the California Teachers Association.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:43] What about any of California’s highest earners, Guy? I mean, have they spoken out against this tax or have they been, for the most part, pretty quiet?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:09:52] No, we really haven’t heard any kind of organized opposition to Proposition 3, nothing like the money that we’re seeing coming in in support of prop three, especially from the teachers unions. And I think a big reason for that is the richest Californians, they might be a little bit more focused on another measure, which is Prop 40, the billionaire wealth tax, we are seeing some of the wealthiest residents of the state organized against that. And really not as much of a big campaign around proposition three.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:10:22] Yeah, and I mean, as you said earlier, this proposition builds on previous ballot initiatives that Californians have approved in the past. So how likely do you think is this one to pass?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:10:35] You know, we had initial support for this back in 2012. I think as this has just become part of the state budget and part of the way California taxation works, you’re likely to see voters kind of just like get used to it and say, look, this has been in place, you know, only the top 2% of income earners are paying this. I do think one potential iceberg for this measure is just voter confusion because we are seeing so many different measures on the ballot related to taxes. Maybe this gets confused or conflated with Prop 40, the billionaire wealth tax, and voters who are opposed to that turn against this. That’s speculation. But certainly, taking the last two elections where this was on the ballot, 2012 and 2016, voters said yes to this idea of taxing our highest income earners in California have more.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:28] Guy, thank you so much.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:11:30] Yeah, thank you.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Your support makes KQED podcasts possible. You can show your love by going to\u003ca href=\"https://kqed.org/donate/podcasts\"> https://kqed.org/donate/podcasts\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>This story was reported by Guy Marzorati. Prop Fest is a collaboration between Bay Curious and The Bay. It’s made by Olivia Allen-Price, Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale, Anna Casalme, Ericka Cruz Guevarra, Alan Montecillo, Gabriela Glueck and Pauline Bartolone. Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad, Ethan Toven-Lindsey and everyone on Team KQED.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:23] And I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious. Welcome to Prop Fest. For two weeks, our teams at The Bay and Bay Curious are bringing you breakdowns of each statewide proposition on the California ballot, so you can vote smart this November.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:37] There are 14 propositions on the ballot this year, and we’ll be taking you through all of them.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:43] Today, we’re talking about Proposition 3. A bill that aims to lock in tax rates for high-income earners to pay for schools and health care in California. Here’s how it’ll read on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:04] Here to walk us through Proposition 3 is politics and government correspondent Guy Marzorati. What’s up, Guy?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:04] Here to walk us through Proposition 3 is politics and government correspondent Guy Marzorati. What’s up, Guy?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:10] Hey, you may remember me from Prop 2.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:10] Hey, you may remember me from Prop 2.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:14] I sure do. Thank you so much again for joining us on this one. This one seems pretty straightforward, I gotta say. But walk us through what Proposition 3 might do.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:14] I sure do. Thank you so much again for joining us on this one. This one seems pretty straightforward, I gotta say. But walk us through what Proposition 3 might do.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:24] Yeah, so this would permanently extend California’s current income tax rates on our top earners. So back in 2012, California voters approved a new higher tax bracket for the top 2% of income earners, California. Voters extended those taxes in 2016. Now it’s on the ballot again to make it permanent.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:24] Yeah, so this would permanently extend California’s current income tax rates on our top earners. So back in 2012, California voters approved a new higher tax bracket for the top 2% of income earners, California. Voters extended those taxes in 2016. Now it’s on the ballot again to make it permanent.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:45] Who are we talking about when we say high earners in California?\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:49] Yeah, that’s a great question. So the folks who pay these taxes that are being proposed to be permanent under Proposition 3 are really just the top 2% of California income tax filers. Those individuals and families pay a marginal tax rate of a little over 10% on income above $371,000 for an individual or $743,000 for a family. And there are higher rates of just over 11% and 12% as you go up the income ladder to families making more than $1.5 million.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:49] Yeah, that’s a great question. So the folks who pay these taxes that are being proposed to be permanent under Proposition 3 are really just the top 2% of California income tax filers. Those individuals and families pay a marginal tax rate of a little over 10% on income above $371,000 for an individual or $743,000 for a family. And there are higher rates of just over 11% and 12% as you go up the income ladder to families making more than $1.5 million.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:23] So when you’re saying top earners also, just to be clear, we’re not talking about the billionaire’s tax.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:23] So when you’re saying top earners also, just to be clear, we’re not talking about the billionaire’s tax.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:02:29] That’s right. No, we are not talking about Prop 40, the billionaire wealth tax. That is a measure about overall wealth for California billionaires. Proposition 3 is just about income taxes.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:02:29] That’s right. No, we are not talking about Prop 40, the billionaire wealth tax. That is a measure about overall wealth for California billionaires. Proposition 3 is just about income taxes.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:43] And how much money could this bring in for California every year? And what are the kinds of things that this money would pay for?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:43] And how much money could this bring in for California every year? And what are the kinds of things that this money would pay for?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:02:52] Yeah, so the California Budget and Policy Center has went back and looked at what kind of impact these higher tax rates have had. And basically, since they were enacted in 2012, these higher taxes have brought in about $120 billion for the state. In recent years, that’s been about $10 billion a year, so roughly like 4% of the overall state general fund. And so the big winners of these taxes are schools and health care because the vast majority of California state spending from the general fund goes to schools and goes to health care.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:02:52] Yeah, so the California Budget and Policy Center has went back and looked at what kind of impact these higher tax rates have had. And basically, since they were enacted in 2012, these higher taxes have brought in about $120 billion for the state. In recent years, that’s been about $10 billion a year, so roughly like 4% of the overall state general fund. And so the big winners of these taxes are schools and health care because the vast majority of California state spending from the general fund goes to schools and goes to health care.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:27] And when you say health, Guy, you mean health and human services, so things like Medi-Cal.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:27] And when you say health, Guy, you mean health and human services, so things like Medi-Cal.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:03:33] Yeah, so the biggest piece of that is Medi-Cal, which is our Medicaid system in California, basically our healthcare safety net for low-income working-class Californians.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:03:33] Yeah, so the biggest piece of that is Medi-Cal, which is our Medicaid system in California, basically our healthcare safety net for low-income working-class Californians.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:45] And let’s get into the politics of this measure. Who are the main proponents of preposition three and what are their arguments?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:45] And let’s get into the politics of this measure. Who are the main proponents of preposition three and what are their arguments?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:03:53] So the main proponents of Proposition 3 are Democrats and Democrat-aligned groups, specifically the California Teachers Association, which is the biggest single proponent of Proposition 3. Their argument is these taxes are working. We’ve had them in place for more than a decade. They’re bringing in billions of dollars, and they really have championed California’s progressive tax system, saying it’s fair for the folks who earn the most income in state to pay at a higher rate. They’re also the biggest beneficiaries of these taxes. Again, the biggest slice of the pie for a California tax revenue is going to schools. And so I think it’s no surprise that you see the state’s biggest teachers unions getting behind Proposition 3 and wanting to make it permanent. Here’s David Goldberg, who’s president of the California Teachers Association, making an appeal for Prop 3 on Instagram.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:03:53] So the main proponents of Proposition 3 are Democrats and Democrat-aligned groups, specifically the California Teachers Association, which is the biggest single proponent of Proposition 3. Their argument is these taxes are working. We’ve had them in place for more than a decade. They’re bringing in billions of dollars, and they really have championed California’s progressive tax system, saying it’s fair for the folks who earn the most income in state to pay at a higher rate. They’re also the biggest beneficiaries of these taxes. Again, the biggest slice of the pie for a California tax revenue is going to schools. And so I think it’s no surprise that you see the state’s biggest teachers unions getting behind Proposition 3 and wanting to make it permanent. Here’s David Goldberg, who’s president of the California Teachers Association, making an appeal for Prop 3 on Instagram.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>David Goldberg \u003c/strong>[00:04:45] Prop 3 will make permanent an already existing tax on wealthy Californians. We’re making out like gangbusters right now. We have to make the case to make sure that people know that investing and voting for Prop 3 is investing in us, in our communities, in our students, in our families, and in education.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>David Goldberg \u003c/strong>[00:04:45] Prop 3 will make permanent an already existing tax on wealthy Californians. We’re making out like gangbusters right now. We have to make the case to make sure that people know that investing and voting for Prop 3 is investing in us, in our communities, in our students, in our families, and in education.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:05:05] And then the California Budget and Policy Center has said that if the income tax on top earners doesn’t extend, the state’s income tax would become more regressive. Can you explain what they mean by that?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:05:05] And then the California Budget and Policy Center has said that if the income tax on top earners doesn’t extend, the state’s income tax would become more regressive. Can you explain what they mean by that?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:05:19] Yeah, so basically the way that the state’s income tax system is set up right now is you have top earners paying at a higher rate, not just paying more because they earn more, but actually paying at higher rate than lower income earners. And so what that does is it creates a system that supporters say is fair, that you have people who are making the most money, paying a higher share into the state government. What that also does create though is more volatility because the people who were who the largest share of state taxation, it’s a smaller group. So if the stock market goes down or the economy goes down and that group is affected, you’re gonna see these swings up and down in state tax revenue.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:05:19] Yeah, so basically the way that the state’s income tax system is set up right now is you have top earners paying at a higher rate, not just paying more because they earn more, but actually paying at higher rate than lower income earners. And so what that does is it creates a system that supporters say is fair, that you have people who are making the most money, paying a higher share into the state government. What that also does create though is more volatility because the people who were who the largest share of state taxation, it’s a smaller group. So if the stock market goes down or the economy goes down and that group is affected, you’re gonna see these swings up and down in state tax revenue.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:03] Or if our top earners leave California.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:03] Or if our top earners leave California.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:06:07] Yes, and that’s I mean, this this kind of ties into the arguments that we’re seeing around Prop 40, the billionaire wealth tax, but this idea that if you know those high earners leave the state, then that could have an outsize impact on how much money the state is able to bring in because the state is relying so much on that kind of smaller group of wealthy individuals.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:06:07] Yes, and that’s I mean, this this kind of ties into the arguments that we’re seeing around Prop 40, the billionaire wealth tax, but this idea that if you know those high earners leave the state, then that could have an outsize impact on how much money the state is able to bring in because the state is relying so much on that kind of smaller group of wealthy individuals.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:31] We’ll have more on Proposition 3 with KQED’s Guy Marzorati right after this break. If you appreciate the work we’re doing here on Prop Fest, consider supporting the journalism we do here at KQED by becoming a sustaining member. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:31] We’ll have more on Proposition 3 with KQED’s Guy Marzorati right after this break. If you appreciate the work we’re doing here on Prop Fest, consider supporting the journalism we do here at KQED by becoming a sustaining member. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:07:07] Who’s coming out against Proposition 3, and what’s the argument on their end?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:07:07] Who’s coming out against Proposition 3, and what’s the argument on their end?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:07:12] Yeah, you really see an opposition from Republicans and kind of taxpayer advocacy groups, including the California Taxpayers Association, the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association, who have basically made the argument that Californians face too much of a burden in taxes, and that the state needs to start doing things to lower the tax burden on individuals. There is a group reform California led by Republican Assemblymember Carl DeMaio. He has come out against Proposition 3, but also against Proposition 40, which is the billionaire wealth tax. And here he is kind of wrapping up his opposition to multiple tax ideas that are on the ballot.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:07:12] Yeah, you really see an opposition from Republicans and kind of taxpayer advocacy groups, including the California Taxpayers Association, the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association, who have basically made the argument that Californians face too much of a burden in taxes, and that the state needs to start doing things to lower the tax burden on individuals. There is a group reform California led by Republican Assemblymember Carl DeMaio. He has come out against Proposition 3, but also against Proposition 40, which is the billionaire wealth tax. And here he is kind of wrapping up his opposition to multiple tax ideas that are on the ballot.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carl DeMaio \u003c/strong>[00:07:54] I know some of you are probably saying, well, if it’s just going to apply to the rich, why not do it? They’re coming for you. But it also has a negative impact on our state budget. What happens when a high income earner leaves the state? Instead of paying a little bit more in taxes with the higher Prop 3 or Prop 40 tax rates, They take a hundred percent of their tax increment to another state and that state gets the revenue. We get zero.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carl DeMaio \u003c/strong>[00:07:54] I know some of you are probably saying, well, if it’s just going to apply to the rich, why not do it? They’re coming for you. But it also has a negative impact on our state budget. What happens when a high income earner leaves the state? Instead of paying a little bit more in taxes with the higher Prop 3 or Prop 40 tax rates, They take a hundred percent of their tax increment to another state and that state gets the revenue. We get zero.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:08:26] You also hear the argument that this tax was never meant to be permanent. When it was initially enacted back in 2012, it was championed by former Governor Jerry Brown. It came after Brown’s first two years in office where he really made some difficult cuts to state programs. And he turned to voters and said, look, I’ve been frugal. I’ve made these cuts. Now I need to ask you to pay more in order to kind of make the budget more stable. Voters approved that, but it was pitched as a temporary increase. Uh, that temporary increase was extended again in 2016 as a temporary increase. Now proposition three would make those higher income taxes permanent. So opponents of this say, you know, This is a bait and switch.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:08:26] You also hear the argument that this tax was never meant to be permanent. When it was initially enacted back in 2012, it was championed by former Governor Jerry Brown. It came after Brown’s first two years in office where he really made some difficult cuts to state programs. And he turned to voters and said, look, I’ve been frugal. I’ve made these cuts. Now I need to ask you to pay more in order to kind of make the budget more stable. Voters approved that, but it was pitched as a temporary increase. Uh, that temporary increase was extended again in 2016 as a temporary increase. Now proposition three would make those higher income taxes permanent. So opponents of this say, you know, This is a bait and switch.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:13] Let’s talk about the money here. Is there anyone coming out to spend any money for or against this measure?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:13] Let’s talk about the money here. Is there anyone coming out to spend any money for or against this measure?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:09:20] We’ve seen funding for Proposition 3 overwhelmingly on the Yes campaign. There’s been over $40 million in support so far, and the vast majority of that — $33 million of the $43 million comes from the California Teachers Association.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:09:20] We’ve seen funding for Proposition 3 overwhelmingly on the Yes campaign. There’s been over $40 million in support so far, and the vast majority of that — $33 million of the $43 million comes from the California Teachers Association.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:43] What about any of California’s highest earners, Guy? I mean, have they spoken out against this tax or have they been, for the most part, pretty quiet?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:43] What about any of California’s highest earners, Guy? I mean, have they spoken out against this tax or have they been, for the most part, pretty quiet?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:09:52] No, we really haven’t heard any kind of organized opposition to Proposition 3, nothing like the money that we’re seeing coming in in support of prop three, especially from the teachers unions. And I think a big reason for that is the richest Californians, they might be a little bit more focused on another measure, which is Prop 40, the billionaire wealth tax, we are seeing some of the wealthiest residents of the state organized against that. And really not as much of a big campaign around proposition three.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:09:52] No, we really haven’t heard any kind of organized opposition to Proposition 3, nothing like the money that we’re seeing coming in in support of prop three, especially from the teachers unions. And I think a big reason for that is the richest Californians, they might be a little bit more focused on another measure, which is Prop 40, the billionaire wealth tax, we are seeing some of the wealthiest residents of the state organized against that. And really not as much of a big campaign around proposition three.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:10:22] Yeah, and I mean, as you said earlier, this proposition builds on previous ballot initiatives that Californians have approved in the past. So how likely do you think is this one to pass?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:10:22] Yeah, and I mean, as you said earlier, this proposition builds on previous ballot initiatives that Californians have approved in the past. So how likely do you think is this one to pass?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:10:35] You know, we had initial support for this back in 2012. I think as this has just become part of the state budget and part of the way California taxation works, you’re likely to see voters kind of just like get used to it and say, look, this has been in place, you know, only the top 2% of income earners are paying this. I do think one potential iceberg for this measure is just voter confusion because we are seeing so many different measures on the ballot related to taxes. Maybe this gets confused or conflated with Prop 40, the billionaire wealth tax, and voters who are opposed to that turn against this. That’s speculation. But certainly, taking the last two elections where this was on the ballot, 2012 and 2016, voters said yes to this idea of taxing our highest income earners in California have more.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:10:35] You know, we had initial support for this back in 2012. I think as this has just become part of the state budget and part of the way California taxation works, you’re likely to see voters kind of just like get used to it and say, look, this has been in place, you know, only the top 2% of income earners are paying this. I do think one potential iceberg for this measure is just voter confusion because we are seeing so many different measures on the ballot related to taxes. Maybe this gets confused or conflated with Prop 40, the billionaire wealth tax, and voters who are opposed to that turn against this. That’s speculation. But certainly, taking the last two elections where this was on the ballot, 2012 and 2016, voters said yes to this idea of taxing our highest income earners in California have more.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:28] Guy, thank you so much.\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "Proposition 3 would lock in a marginal tax rate of 10.3% to 12.3% for the state's highest earners.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:00] California has what’s known as a progressive tax system. Basically, the more money you make, the more you pay in income taxes.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:09] For years, California voters have approved certain tax rates for high-income earners. And now, Prop 3 could make some of those rates permanent.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:20] I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:23] And I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious. Welcome to Prop Fest. For two weeks, our teams at The Bay and Bay Curious are bringing you breakdowns of each statewide proposition on the California ballot, so you can vote smart this November.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:37] There are 14 propositions on the ballot this year, and we’ll be taking you through all of them.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:43] Today, we’re talking about Proposition 3. A bill that aims to lock in tax rates for high-income earners to pay for schools and health care in California. Here’s how it’ll read on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voiceover \u003c/strong>[00:00:56] Prop 3 provides permanent funding for schools and health care by extending existing tax on high incomes.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:04] Here to walk us through Proposition 3 is politics and government correspondent Guy Marzorati. What’s up, Guy?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:10] Hey, you may remember me from Prop 2.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:14] I sure do. Thank you so much again for joining us on this one. This one seems pretty straightforward, I gotta say. But walk us through what Proposition 3 might do.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:24] Yeah, so this would permanently extend California’s current income tax rates on our top earners. So back in 2012, California voters approved a new higher tax bracket for the top 2% of income earners, California. Voters extended those taxes in 2016. Now it’s on the ballot again to make it permanent.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:45] Who are we talking about when we say high earners in California?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:01:49] Yeah, that’s a great question. So the folks who pay these taxes that are being proposed to be permanent under Proposition 3 are really just the top 2% of California income tax filers. Those individuals and families pay a marginal tax rate of a little over 10% on income above $371,000 for an individual or $743,000 for a family. And there are higher rates of just over 11% and 12% as you go up the income ladder to families making more than $1.5 million.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:23] So when you’re saying top earners also, just to be clear, we’re not talking about the billionaire’s tax.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:02:29] That’s right. No, we are not talking about Prop 40, the billionaire wealth tax. That is a measure about overall wealth for California billionaires. Proposition 3 is just about income taxes.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:43] And how much money could this bring in for California every year? And what are the kinds of things that this money would pay for?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:02:52] Yeah, so the California Budget and Policy Center has went back and looked at what kind of impact these higher tax rates have had. And basically, since they were enacted in 2012, these higher taxes have brought in about $120 billion for the state. In recent years, that’s been about $10 billion a year, so roughly like 4% of the overall state general fund. And so the big winners of these taxes are schools and health care because the vast majority of California state spending from the general fund goes to schools and goes to health care.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:27] And when you say health, Guy, you mean health and human services, so things like Medi-Cal.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:03:33] Yeah, so the biggest piece of that is Medi-Cal, which is our Medicaid system in California, basically our healthcare safety net for low-income working-class Californians.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:45] And let’s get into the politics of this measure. Who are the main proponents of preposition three and what are their arguments?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:03:53] So the main proponents of Proposition 3 are Democrats and Democrat-aligned groups, specifically the California Teachers Association, which is the biggest single proponent of Proposition 3. Their argument is these taxes are working. We’ve had them in place for more than a decade. They’re bringing in billions of dollars, and they really have championed California’s progressive tax system, saying it’s fair for the folks who earn the most income in state to pay at a higher rate. They’re also the biggest beneficiaries of these taxes. Again, the biggest slice of the pie for a California tax revenue is going to schools. And so I think it’s no surprise that you see the state’s biggest teachers unions getting behind Proposition 3 and wanting to make it permanent. Here’s David Goldberg, who’s president of the California Teachers Association, making an appeal for Prop 3 on Instagram.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>David Goldberg \u003c/strong>[00:04:45] Prop 3 will make permanent an already existing tax on wealthy Californians. We’re making out like gangbusters right now. We have to make the case to make sure that people know that investing and voting for Prop 3 is investing in us, in our communities, in our students, in our families, and in education.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:05:05] And then the California Budget and Policy Center has said that if the income tax on top earners doesn’t extend, the state’s income tax would become more regressive. Can you explain what they mean by that?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:05:19] Yeah, so basically the way that the state’s income tax system is set up right now is you have top earners paying at a higher rate, not just paying more because they earn more, but actually paying at higher rate than lower income earners. And so what that does is it creates a system that supporters say is fair, that you have people who are making the most money, paying a higher share into the state government. What that also does create though is more volatility because the people who were who the largest share of state taxation, it’s a smaller group. So if the stock market goes down or the economy goes down and that group is affected, you’re gonna see these swings up and down in state tax revenue.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:03] Or if our top earners leave California.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:06:07] Yes, and that’s I mean, this this kind of ties into the arguments that we’re seeing around Prop 40, the billionaire wealth tax, but this idea that if you know those high earners leave the state, then that could have an outsize impact on how much money the state is able to bring in because the state is relying so much on that kind of smaller group of wealthy individuals.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:31] We’ll have more on Proposition 3 with KQED’s Guy Marzorati right after this break. If you appreciate the work we’re doing here on Prop Fest, consider supporting the journalism we do here at KQED by becoming a sustaining member. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:07:07] Who’s coming out against Proposition 3, and what’s the argument on their end?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:07:12] Yeah, you really see an opposition from Republicans and kind of taxpayer advocacy groups, including the California Taxpayers Association, the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association, who have basically made the argument that Californians face too much of a burden in taxes, and that the state needs to start doing things to lower the tax burden on individuals. There is a group reform California led by Republican Assemblymember Carl DeMaio. He has come out against Proposition 3, but also against Proposition 40, which is the billionaire wealth tax. And here he is kind of wrapping up his opposition to multiple tax ideas that are on the ballot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carl DeMaio \u003c/strong>[00:07:54] I know some of you are probably saying, well, if it’s just going to apply to the rich, why not do it? They’re coming for you. But it also has a negative impact on our state budget. What happens when a high income earner leaves the state? Instead of paying a little bit more in taxes with the higher Prop 3 or Prop 40 tax rates, They take a hundred percent of their tax increment to another state and that state gets the revenue. We get zero.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:08:26] You also hear the argument that this tax was never meant to be permanent. When it was initially enacted back in 2012, it was championed by former Governor Jerry Brown. It came after Brown’s first two years in office where he really made some difficult cuts to state programs. And he turned to voters and said, look, I’ve been frugal. I’ve made these cuts. Now I need to ask you to pay more in order to kind of make the budget more stable. Voters approved that, but it was pitched as a temporary increase. Uh, that temporary increase was extended again in 2016 as a temporary increase. Now proposition three would make those higher income taxes permanent. So opponents of this say, you know, This is a bait and switch.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:13] Let’s talk about the money here. Is there anyone coming out to spend any money for or against this measure?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:09:20] We’ve seen funding for Proposition 3 overwhelmingly on the Yes campaign. There’s been over $40 million in support so far, and the vast majority of that — $33 million of the $43 million comes from the California Teachers Association.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:43] What about any of California’s highest earners, Guy? I mean, have they spoken out against this tax or have they been, for the most part, pretty quiet?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:09:52] No, we really haven’t heard any kind of organized opposition to Proposition 3, nothing like the money that we’re seeing coming in in support of prop three, especially from the teachers unions. And I think a big reason for that is the richest Californians, they might be a little bit more focused on another measure, which is Prop 40, the billionaire wealth tax, we are seeing some of the wealthiest residents of the state organized against that. And really not as much of a big campaign around proposition three.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:10:22] Yeah, and I mean, as you said earlier, this proposition builds on previous ballot initiatives that Californians have approved in the past. So how likely do you think is this one to pass?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:10:35] You know, we had initial support for this back in 2012. I think as this has just become part of the state budget and part of the way California taxation works, you’re likely to see voters kind of just like get used to it and say, look, this has been in place, you know, only the top 2% of income earners are paying this. I do think one potential iceberg for this measure is just voter confusion because we are seeing so many different measures on the ballot related to taxes. Maybe this gets confused or conflated with Prop 40, the billionaire wealth tax, and voters who are opposed to that turn against this. That’s speculation. But certainly, taking the last two elections where this was on the ballot, 2012 and 2016, voters said yes to this idea of taxing our highest income earners in California have more.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:28] Guy, thank you so much.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati \u003c/strong>[00:11:30] Yeah, thank you.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Your support makes KQED podcasts possible. You can show your love by going to\u003ca href=\"https://kqed.org/donate/podcasts\"> https://kqed.org/donate/podcasts\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>This story was reported by Guy Marzorati. Prop Fest is a collaboration between Bay Curious and The Bay. It’s made by Olivia Allen-Price, Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale, Anna Casalme, Ericka Cruz Guevarra, Alan Montecillo, Gabriela Glueck and Pauline Bartolone. Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad, Ethan Toven-Lindsey and everyone on Team KQED.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript:\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Let’s go back to 2014 for a second. Pharrell Williams’ ‘Happy’ was making its way up the billboard charts. Jerry Brown was governor and California was going through a really tough budget time.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Brown had come back into office in the midst of the Great Recession and he was kind of obsessed with being resourceful and careful with money.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jerry Brown: \u003c/strong>Boom and bust is our lot, and we must follow the ancient advice recounted in the book of Genesis that Joseph gave to the Pharaoh. Put away your surplus during the years are great plenty, so you’ll be ready for the lean years which are sure to follow.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>In 2014, Brown persuaded voters to strengthen the state’s Rainy Day Fund: The pot of money created to make sure that California is saving when the good times are good, while also paying down its debts.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Now fast forward to today and Proposition 2, which asks voters to make that Rainy Day Fund even bigger.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>And I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious. Welcome to Prop Fest, a collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curious. We’re here to break down each of the propositions on the California ballot so you can vote with confidence in the November election.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Today, we’re discussing proposition two. It reads like this on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voice Over: \u003c/strong>Prop 2 increases state’s rainy day fund.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Here to walk us through all this is our politics and government correspondent, Guy Marzorati. Hey, Guy.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Hey Ericka.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So to dive into proposition two here, first of all, there’s just a lot of, I feel like, big jargony words in here. Can you walk us through just what proposition two is all about?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, Proposition 2 is all about California’s Rainy Day Fund. So this is a fund that’s officially known as the budget stabilization account, but it’s basically where state lawmakers store our tax revenue in good times in order to save for bad budget times. Proposition two would change the laws around that rainy day fund to allow the legislature and the governor to save even more money in the rainy day fund in future years.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And what exactly is a rainy day fund? Like what are the kinds of things the state might use rainy day funds for?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It just flows from this thing saving for a rainy day. But the general idea is, you know, California’s tax revenue is not going to be the exact same year to year. How much people pay in taxes is based on how much they make. And in any given year, if the economy is going well, if their stock market is going well or it’s going poorly, the amount of money that California brings in is going to fluctuate. And that’s actually even more acute in California because we have a progressive tax system, which means people who earn more income pay a higher rate of income tax. And those high earners in California, the money they’re making year to year is volatile because it really has to do in many cases with how the stock market is doing. So California, more than many other states, sees this kind of big fluctuation in year to year and how much revenue is coming in.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>And so the idea of a rainy day fund is to say, look, in years where the money is just flowing in from taxpayers, let’s set some of it aside because we know there could very quickly be years coming where we don’t have enough money to meet all of the state’s spending commitments.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Just for some context, in the last five years in California, we’ve both had a budget surplus that’s reached around $100 billion and also a budget deficit around $50 billion. It makes it really difficult year to year to project how much money is going to come in to California. Because it’s difficult to project, it can often be difficult for state lawmakers to really have a clear picture of the budget when they’re enacting it. And so Proposition 2, which would grow the rainy day fund, really offers more of kind of a safety net for state legislators as we see tax revenue fluctuate up and down.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah, let’s talk a little bit more about how Proposition 2 would actually change how the rainy day fund works. How much more money could it allow California to put away?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so it’s really two big changes that Proposition 2 makes around the rainy day fund. One is just growing the maximum size of the fund. Right now, the max that lawmakers can put into the rainy-day fund in any given year is 10% of general fund tax revenue. Proposition two would double that. So they’d be allowed to put in up to 20% of general-fund tax revenue in a given year. The second big change it makes is it would count saving i.e. putting money in the rainy day fund, it would not count that as spending. And that’s a really important distinction and change around the state spending limit with the effect that lawmakers would be able to save more in those kind of big budget years.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So you mentioned spending limits just now and you’re talking about something called the Gann limit, which is actually in the actual title of this proposition. So what is the Gann limit and what does it have to do with prop two?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so the Gann limit was approved by California voters in the late 70s.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Archival Footage: \u003c/strong>California was the epicenter of the tax quake of ‘78, and they were the shakers, Howard Jarvis and Paul Gann.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>So that was a time, it was also when Proposition 13, which dramatically cut property tax rates, was passed. It was really this era of citizen initiatives really cutting back state taxation and state spending.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Archival Footage: \u003c/strong>We’ve just about had a belly full of the growth of government, the cost of government the waste.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>So the Gann limit was approved by California voters. It sets the state spending limit. And if the amount of tax revenue that comes into the state in any given year exceeds that spending limit, then some of that money needs to actually be just returned directly to taxpayers. So right now with the rainy day funds, money that gets placed into the fund is counted as state spending. So if you’re counting that as state-spending, it also limits how much the state can save. And the way that Proposition 2 would change that is basically saying anytime lawmakers set aside money in the rainy day fund, it won’t count as an act of spending. So therefore, they’re gonna be able to save more.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Hmm. So, I mean, one big part of Prop 2 is about getting the state to save more when times are good. And another big part is how they use their money to pay off debts. Can you walk me through that part?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so that’s right. So basically, the state every year has to set aside money, about 1.5% of general fund revenue, half of that goes into the rainy day fund, half of those goes into paying down debts. So right now though, the debt that the state can pay down with that money is kind of limited. It either has to be the state’s unfunded pension liability, so pensions for retired state employees, or what the state will owe in the future to state employees for their health care.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>What Proposition 2 does is say that money that you’re setting aside to pay down debts, you can pay more different kinds of debts with that money. So for example, paying the federal government back for state unemployment loans. During the COVID pandemic, California borrowed more than $20 billion from the federal Government in order to pay unemployment because we had this sudden spike in unemployment. And the state still hasn’t paid back that money in full. And what Proposition two would allow is, when the state sets aside money to pay down debts, one of the ways it can use that is to pay the federal government back.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We’ll have more with KQED’s Guy Marzorati right after this break. By the way, if you appreciate the work we’re doing here on Prop Fest, consider becoming a sustaining KQED member. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I guess one big question I have is why is this something that me, a voter, is being asked to decide on? Like it kind of feels like the kind of work that I might imagine our state legislature sort of deciding on.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, no, that’s a that’s a great question. And this ballot measure, Proposition 2, was actually placed on the ballot by the state legislature. It was necessary to do that because Proposition 2 makes changes to laws that were passed by California voters. So not only that the rainy day fund that California voters enacted, but it also changes rules around the state’s spending limit, which was also set by California voters back in the 70s. So since voters put those rules into law, the legislature has to go back to voters to ask them for changes to those laws.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, we talked about some of the changes Prop 2 would make to how we spend and save in California, but who exactly is for this and what is their rationale for putting this on the ballot and for making these changes?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so the big proponent of this idea is Governor Gavin Newsom, who has wanted, has talked about this idea for a few years of expanding the size of the rainy day fund. And Newsom has kind of talked about his idea through the lens of regret. He wished he had done this exact reform earlier to grow the rainy-day fund, so that yes, when the state had a budget surplus of about $100 billion after the pandemic, when the stock market had surged and all these tech companies were doing incredibly well and tax revenue was just flowing into the state, Newsom was like, I wish at that time I could have set aside more of that money because right around the corner, just a couple years later, the state was dealing with a huge deficit.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gavin Newsom: \u003c/strong>So there are a lot of those things that we can look back, but again, you had political capital today, you didn’t have that. You have different legislative leadership, you have different public consciousness and opinion, you have a different president, different way, you know. So all those things, you now, I don’t wallow in that…\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And so he’s really pushed this idea and is backing it on the ballot. And in addition to the governor, we’ve seen kind of broad support amongst Democrats. The California Democratic Party is supporting Proposition two. And when this measure was placed on the ballot, it was almost entirely a party-line vote. So Democrats supported it. There was only one Republican in the legislature who supported putting it on a ballot. And here’s Bakersfield Senator Melissa Hurtado talking about why this is necessary.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Melissa Hurtado: \u003c/strong>Our job here as legislators, as senators, is to protect Californians. And I believe ACA 20 will do that. It will make us more disciplined, not just in saving, but also in spending.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What about who is against this proposition, Guy, and what’s the rationale on that side of things?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so we did see opposition from Republicans in the legislature to putting this on the ballot. And we’ve seen opposition from anti-tax groups to Proposition two as well. And their argument is that this measure would make it less likely for Californians to get a refund when there’s a lot of tax revenue coming in. And that happened back in 1987, and the state refunded more than a billion dollars to taxpayers. Right now, we have that state spending limit. If the state is bringing in more money than it can spend, it has to give some of that money back to taxpayers. If Proposition two passes, the state can instead set more of that money aside into the rainy day fund. And so you’ve seen opponents of Proposition two say, look, the point of this state spending limit that voters enacted in the late 70s was if more money is coming into the state, voters, taxpayers, residents should get it back. If Proposition two passes, less of that money in that situation will go back to taxpayers.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Patterson: \u003c/strong>We don’t have a rainy day fund in California. The voters thought they were passing a rainy-day fund, but they didn’t get a rainy–day fund.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And here’s what Republican Assemblymember Joe Patterson had to say about this idea, this rainy day fund measure on the ballot back when it was being debated in the legislature in June.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Patterson: \u003c/strong>All this does is create a bigger slush fund for money to be used the following years instead of returning money to the taxpayer, it just creates a bigger slash fund…\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And looking at campaign spending on this measure so far, Guy, what are we seeing there? Is any group pouring any kind of money into this?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>So yeah, we’re really not seeing any spending on either side with Prop two. There is Reform California, which is a conservative group headed by Republican Assemblymember, Carl DeMaio. They’re opposing kind of a suite of ballot measures, including Prop two and Prop three, which a taxation measure. And so they’re actively trying to get the word out in opposition to Proposition two, but we really haven’t seen any kind of big spending really on either side of this.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean, as we’ve just been talking about, this is sort of a wonky, confusing, very jargony feeling proposition. I’m curious from what you’ve seen. Is this proposition popular among voters so far, or do you think it’ll pass?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It does pose a couple interesting questions, I think, to California voters, where you kind of see this like collision of eras at play in this measure. Again, a lot of the the ballot measures that limited state spending and limited state taxes, those date back to the 1970s, where you did see this kind of citizen uprising against taxation and spending. But those rules are still on the books today. And some of them, supporters of Prop two would make it harder to save. And then you come to this area that we’re in. In California budgeting right now where we have these huge volatility swings because we’re relying so much on top earners. And I think the idea behind Proposition two is adapt to that new reality by being able to save more, although opponents would say it’s kind of betraying a lot of the promises that voters wanted in the 70s.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Guy, thank you so much as always for breaking this one down. Appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>In a nutshell, a yes vote on this measure means rules for building state budget reserves and paying down extra state debts would change. As a result, state budget reserve would be higher. A no vote on the measure means rules for building State budget reserves and paying extra state debt would not change.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That’s it for our latest episode of PropFest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. We’re breaking down every single statewide ballot proposition from now until October 9th. Subscribe to The Bay and Bay Curious so you don’t miss out on the next ones, and don’t forget to share them with your friends and family.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Prop Fest is made possible thanks to Alan Montecillo, Gabriela Glueck, Pauline Bartolone, Katrina Schwartz, Olivia Allen-Price, Christopher Beale, Anna Casalme, and me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>We get extra support from Katie Springer, Jen Chien, Maha Sanad, Ethan Tovan Lindsey and everyone on Team KQED.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>You can find audio and transcripts for this series at kqed.org/prop fest.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Our show is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. If you value podcasts like this one, please consider becoming a sustaining member of KQED. Learn more at donate.kqed.org/podcasts.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Support for The Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>And I’m Olivia Allen Price. We’ll be back tomorrow with an explainer on Proposition 3, which makes an existing tax on high incomes permanent.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We’ll talk then.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Let’s go back to 2014 for a second. Pharrell Williams’ ‘Happy’ was making its way up the billboard charts. Jerry Brown was governor and California was going through a really tough budget time.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Let’s go back to 2014 for a second. Pharrell Williams’ ‘Happy’ was making its way up the billboard charts. Jerry Brown was governor and California was going through a really tough budget time.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Brown had come back into office in the midst of the Great Recession and he was kind of obsessed with being resourceful and careful with money.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Brown had come back into office in the midst of the Great Recession and he was kind of obsessed with being resourceful and careful with money.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jerry Brown: \u003c/strong>Boom and bust is our lot, and we must follow the ancient advice recounted in the book of Genesis that Joseph gave to the Pharaoh. Put away your surplus during the years are great plenty, so you’ll be ready for the lean years which are sure to follow.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jerry Brown: \u003c/strong>Boom and bust is our lot, and we must follow the ancient advice recounted in the book of Genesis that Joseph gave to the Pharaoh. Put away your surplus during the years are great plenty, so you’ll be ready for the lean years which are sure to follow.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>In 2014, Brown persuaded voters to strengthen the state’s Rainy Day Fund: The pot of money created to make sure that California is saving when the good times are good, while also paying down its debts.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>In 2014, Brown persuaded voters to strengthen the state’s Rainy Day Fund: The pot of money created to make sure that California is saving when the good times are good, while also paying down its debts.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Now fast forward to today and Proposition 2, which asks voters to make that Rainy Day Fund even bigger.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Now fast forward to today and Proposition 2, which asks voters to make that Rainy Day Fund even bigger.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>And I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious. Welcome to Prop Fest, a collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curious. We’re here to break down each of the propositions on the California ballot so you can vote with confidence in the November election.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>And I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious. Welcome to Prop Fest, a collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curious. We’re here to break down each of the propositions on the California ballot so you can vote with confidence in the November election.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Today, we’re discussing proposition two. It reads like this on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Today, we’re discussing proposition two. It reads like this on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voice Over: \u003c/strong>Prop 2 increases state’s rainy day fund.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voice Over: \u003c/strong>Prop 2 increases state’s rainy day fund.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Here to walk us through all this is our politics and government correspondent, Guy Marzorati. Hey, Guy.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Here to walk us through all this is our politics and government correspondent, Guy Marzorati. Hey, Guy.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Hey Ericka.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So to dive into proposition two here, first of all, there’s just a lot of, I feel like, big jargony words in here. Can you walk us through just what proposition two is all about?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So to dive into proposition two here, first of all, there’s just a lot of, I feel like, big jargony words in here. Can you walk us through just what proposition two is all about?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, Proposition 2 is all about California’s Rainy Day Fund. So this is a fund that’s officially known as the budget stabilization account, but it’s basically where state lawmakers store our tax revenue in good times in order to save for bad budget times. Proposition two would change the laws around that rainy day fund to allow the legislature and the governor to save even more money in the rainy day fund in future years.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, Proposition 2 is all about California’s Rainy Day Fund. So this is a fund that’s officially known as the budget stabilization account, but it’s basically where state lawmakers store our tax revenue in good times in order to save for bad budget times. Proposition two would change the laws around that rainy day fund to allow the legislature and the governor to save even more money in the rainy day fund in future years.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And what exactly is a rainy day fund? Like what are the kinds of things the state might use rainy day funds for?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And what exactly is a rainy day fund? Like what are the kinds of things the state might use rainy day funds for?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It just flows from this thing saving for a rainy day. But the general idea is, you know, California’s tax revenue is not going to be the exact same year to year. How much people pay in taxes is based on how much they make. And in any given year, if the economy is going well, if their stock market is going well or it’s going poorly, the amount of money that California brings in is going to fluctuate. And that’s actually even more acute in California because we have a progressive tax system, which means people who earn more income pay a higher rate of income tax. And those high earners in California, the money they’re making year to year is volatile because it really has to do in many cases with how the stock market is doing. So California, more than many other states, sees this kind of big fluctuation in year to year and how much revenue is coming in.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It just flows from this thing saving for a rainy day. But the general idea is, you know, California’s tax revenue is not going to be the exact same year to year. How much people pay in taxes is based on how much they make. And in any given year, if the economy is going well, if their stock market is going well or it’s going poorly, the amount of money that California brings in is going to fluctuate. And that’s actually even more acute in California because we have a progressive tax system, which means people who earn more income pay a higher rate of income tax. And those high earners in California, the money they’re making year to year is volatile because it really has to do in many cases with how the stock market is doing. So California, more than many other states, sees this kind of big fluctuation in year to year and how much revenue is coming in.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>And so the idea of a rainy day fund is to say, look, in years where the money is just flowing in from taxpayers, let’s set some of it aside because we know there could very quickly be years coming where we don’t have enough money to meet all of the state’s spending commitments.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>And so the idea of a rainy day fund is to say, look, in years where the money is just flowing in from taxpayers, let’s set some of it aside because we know there could very quickly be years coming where we don’t have enough money to meet all of the state’s spending commitments.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Just for some context, in the last five years in California, we’ve both had a budget surplus that’s reached around $100 billion and also a budget deficit around $50 billion. It makes it really difficult year to year to project how much money is going to come in to California. Because it’s difficult to project, it can often be difficult for state lawmakers to really have a clear picture of the budget when they’re enacting it. And so Proposition 2, which would grow the rainy day fund, really offers more of kind of a safety net for state legislators as we see tax revenue fluctuate up and down.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Just for some context, in the last five years in California, we’ve both had a budget surplus that’s reached around $100 billion and also a budget deficit around $50 billion. It makes it really difficult year to year to project how much money is going to come in to California. Because it’s difficult to project, it can often be difficult for state lawmakers to really have a clear picture of the budget when they’re enacting it. And so Proposition 2, which would grow the rainy day fund, really offers more of kind of a safety net for state legislators as we see tax revenue fluctuate up and down.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah, let’s talk a little bit more about how Proposition 2 would actually change how the rainy day fund works. How much more money could it allow California to put away?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah, let’s talk a little bit more about how Proposition 2 would actually change how the rainy day fund works. How much more money could it allow California to put away?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so it’s really two big changes that Proposition 2 makes around the rainy day fund. One is just growing the maximum size of the fund. Right now, the max that lawmakers can put into the rainy-day fund in any given year is 10% of general fund tax revenue. Proposition two would double that. So they’d be allowed to put in up to 20% of general-fund tax revenue in a given year. The second big change it makes is it would count saving i.e. putting money in the rainy day fund, it would not count that as spending. And that’s a really important distinction and change around the state spending limit with the effect that lawmakers would be able to save more in those kind of big budget years.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so it’s really two big changes that Proposition 2 makes around the rainy day fund. One is just growing the maximum size of the fund. Right now, the max that lawmakers can put into the rainy-day fund in any given year is 10% of general fund tax revenue. Proposition two would double that. So they’d be allowed to put in up to 20% of general-fund tax revenue in a given year. The second big change it makes is it would count saving i.e. putting money in the rainy day fund, it would not count that as spending. And that’s a really important distinction and change around the state spending limit with the effect that lawmakers would be able to save more in those kind of big budget years.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So you mentioned spending limits just now and you’re talking about something called the Gann limit, which is actually in the actual title of this proposition. So what is the Gann limit and what does it have to do with prop two?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So you mentioned spending limits just now and you’re talking about something called the Gann limit, which is actually in the actual title of this proposition. So what is the Gann limit and what does it have to do with prop two?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so the Gann limit was approved by California voters in the late 70s.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so the Gann limit was approved by California voters in the late 70s.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Archival Footage: \u003c/strong>California was the epicenter of the tax quake of ‘78, and they were the shakers, Howard Jarvis and Paul Gann.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Archival Footage: \u003c/strong>California was the epicenter of the tax quake of ‘78, and they were the shakers, Howard Jarvis and Paul Gann.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>So that was a time, it was also when Proposition 13, which dramatically cut property tax rates, was passed. It was really this era of citizen initiatives really cutting back state taxation and state spending.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>So that was a time, it was also when Proposition 13, which dramatically cut property tax rates, was passed. It was really this era of citizen initiatives really cutting back state taxation and state spending.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Archival Footage: \u003c/strong>We’ve just about had a belly full of the growth of government, the cost of government the waste.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Archival Footage: \u003c/strong>We’ve just about had a belly full of the growth of government, the cost of government the waste.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>So the Gann limit was approved by California voters. It sets the state spending limit. And if the amount of tax revenue that comes into the state in any given year exceeds that spending limit, then some of that money needs to actually be just returned directly to taxpayers. So right now with the rainy day funds, money that gets placed into the fund is counted as state spending. So if you’re counting that as state-spending, it also limits how much the state can save. And the way that Proposition 2 would change that is basically saying anytime lawmakers set aside money in the rainy day fund, it won’t count as an act of spending. So therefore, they’re gonna be able to save more.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>So the Gann limit was approved by California voters. It sets the state spending limit. And if the amount of tax revenue that comes into the state in any given year exceeds that spending limit, then some of that money needs to actually be just returned directly to taxpayers. So right now with the rainy day funds, money that gets placed into the fund is counted as state spending. So if you’re counting that as state-spending, it also limits how much the state can save. And the way that Proposition 2 would change that is basically saying anytime lawmakers set aside money in the rainy day fund, it won’t count as an act of spending. So therefore, they’re gonna be able to save more.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Hmm. So, I mean, one big part of Prop 2 is about getting the state to save more when times are good. And another big part is how they use their money to pay off debts. Can you walk me through that part?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Hmm. So, I mean, one big part of Prop 2 is about getting the state to save more when times are good. And another big part is how they use their money to pay off debts. Can you walk me through that part?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so that’s right. So basically, the state every year has to set aside money, about 1.5% of general fund revenue, half of that goes into the rainy day fund, half of those goes into paying down debts. So right now though, the debt that the state can pay down with that money is kind of limited. It either has to be the state’s unfunded pension liability, so pensions for retired state employees, or what the state will owe in the future to state employees for their health care.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so that’s right. So basically, the state every year has to set aside money, about 1.5% of general fund revenue, half of that goes into the rainy day fund, half of those goes into paying down debts. So right now though, the debt that the state can pay down with that money is kind of limited. It either has to be the state’s unfunded pension liability, so pensions for retired state employees, or what the state will owe in the future to state employees for their health care.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>What Proposition 2 does is say that money that you’re setting aside to pay down debts, you can pay more different kinds of debts with that money. So for example, paying the federal government back for state unemployment loans. During the COVID pandemic, California borrowed more than $20 billion from the federal Government in order to pay unemployment because we had this sudden spike in unemployment. And the state still hasn’t paid back that money in full. And what Proposition two would allow is, when the state sets aside money to pay down debts, one of the ways it can use that is to pay the federal government back.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>What Proposition 2 does is say that money that you’re setting aside to pay down debts, you can pay more different kinds of debts with that money. So for example, paying the federal government back for state unemployment loans. During the COVID pandemic, California borrowed more than $20 billion from the federal Government in order to pay unemployment because we had this sudden spike in unemployment. And the state still hasn’t paid back that money in full. And what Proposition two would allow is, when the state sets aside money to pay down debts, one of the ways it can use that is to pay the federal government back.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We’ll have more with KQED’s Guy Marzorati right after this break. By the way, if you appreciate the work we’re doing here on Prop Fest, consider becoming a sustaining KQED member. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We’ll have more with KQED’s Guy Marzorati right after this break. By the way, if you appreciate the work we’re doing here on Prop Fest, consider becoming a sustaining KQED member. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I guess one big question I have is why is this something that me, a voter, is being asked to decide on? Like it kind of feels like the kind of work that I might imagine our state legislature sort of deciding on.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I guess one big question I have is why is this something that me, a voter, is being asked to decide on? Like it kind of feels like the kind of work that I might imagine our state legislature sort of deciding on.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, no, that’s a that’s a great question. And this ballot measure, Proposition 2, was actually placed on the ballot by the state legislature. It was necessary to do that because Proposition 2 makes changes to laws that were passed by California voters. So not only that the rainy day fund that California voters enacted, but it also changes rules around the state’s spending limit, which was also set by California voters back in the 70s. So since voters put those rules into law, the legislature has to go back to voters to ask them for changes to those laws.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, no, that’s a that’s a great question. And this ballot measure, Proposition 2, was actually placed on the ballot by the state legislature. It was necessary to do that because Proposition 2 makes changes to laws that were passed by California voters. So not only that the rainy day fund that California voters enacted, but it also changes rules around the state’s spending limit, which was also set by California voters back in the 70s. So since voters put those rules into law, the legislature has to go back to voters to ask them for changes to those laws.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, we talked about some of the changes Prop 2 would make to how we spend and save in California, but who exactly is for this and what is their rationale for putting this on the ballot and for making these changes?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, we talked about some of the changes Prop 2 would make to how we spend and save in California, but who exactly is for this and what is their rationale for putting this on the ballot and for making these changes?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so the big proponent of this idea is Governor Gavin Newsom, who has wanted, has talked about this idea for a few years of expanding the size of the rainy day fund. And Newsom has kind of talked about his idea through the lens of regret. He wished he had done this exact reform earlier to grow the rainy-day fund, so that yes, when the state had a budget surplus of about $100 billion after the pandemic, when the stock market had surged and all these tech companies were doing incredibly well and tax revenue was just flowing into the state, Newsom was like, I wish at that time I could have set aside more of that money because right around the corner, just a couple years later, the state was dealing with a huge deficit.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so the big proponent of this idea is Governor Gavin Newsom, who has wanted, has talked about this idea for a few years of expanding the size of the rainy day fund. And Newsom has kind of talked about his idea through the lens of regret. He wished he had done this exact reform earlier to grow the rainy-day fund, so that yes, when the state had a budget surplus of about $100 billion after the pandemic, when the stock market had surged and all these tech companies were doing incredibly well and tax revenue was just flowing into the state, Newsom was like, I wish at that time I could have set aside more of that money because right around the corner, just a couple years later, the state was dealing with a huge deficit.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gavin Newsom: \u003c/strong>So there are a lot of those things that we can look back, but again, you had political capital today, you didn’t have that. You have different legislative leadership, you have different public consciousness and opinion, you have a different president, different way, you know. So all those things, you now, I don’t wallow in that…\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gavin Newsom: \u003c/strong>So there are a lot of those things that we can look back, but again, you had political capital today, you didn’t have that. You have different legislative leadership, you have different public consciousness and opinion, you have a different president, different way, you know. So all those things, you now, I don’t wallow in that…\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And so he’s really pushed this idea and is backing it on the ballot. And in addition to the governor, we’ve seen kind of broad support amongst Democrats. The California Democratic Party is supporting Proposition two. And when this measure was placed on the ballot, it was almost entirely a party-line vote. So Democrats supported it. There was only one Republican in the legislature who supported putting it on a ballot. And here’s Bakersfield Senator Melissa Hurtado talking about why this is necessary.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And so he’s really pushed this idea and is backing it on the ballot. And in addition to the governor, we’ve seen kind of broad support amongst Democrats. The California Democratic Party is supporting Proposition two. And when this measure was placed on the ballot, it was almost entirely a party-line vote. So Democrats supported it. There was only one Republican in the legislature who supported putting it on a ballot. And here’s Bakersfield Senator Melissa Hurtado talking about why this is necessary.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Melissa Hurtado: \u003c/strong>Our job here as legislators, as senators, is to protect Californians. And I believe ACA 20 will do that. It will make us more disciplined, not just in saving, but also in spending.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Melissa Hurtado: \u003c/strong>Our job here as legislators, as senators, is to protect Californians. And I believe ACA 20 will do that. It will make us more disciplined, not just in saving, but also in spending.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What about who is against this proposition, Guy, and what’s the rationale on that side of things?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What about who is against this proposition, Guy, and what’s the rationale on that side of things?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so we did see opposition from Republicans in the legislature to putting this on the ballot. And we’ve seen opposition from anti-tax groups to Proposition two as well. And their argument is that this measure would make it less likely for Californians to get a refund when there’s a lot of tax revenue coming in. And that happened back in 1987, and the state refunded more than a billion dollars to taxpayers. Right now, we have that state spending limit. If the state is bringing in more money than it can spend, it has to give some of that money back to taxpayers. If Proposition two passes, the state can instead set more of that money aside into the rainy day fund. And so you’ve seen opponents of Proposition two say, look, the point of this state spending limit that voters enacted in the late 70s was if more money is coming into the state, voters, taxpayers, residents should get it back. If Proposition two passes, less of that money in that situation will go back to taxpayers.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so we did see opposition from Republicans in the legislature to putting this on the ballot. And we’ve seen opposition from anti-tax groups to Proposition two as well. And their argument is that this measure would make it less likely for Californians to get a refund when there’s a lot of tax revenue coming in. And that happened back in 1987, and the state refunded more than a billion dollars to taxpayers. Right now, we have that state spending limit. If the state is bringing in more money than it can spend, it has to give some of that money back to taxpayers. If Proposition two passes, the state can instead set more of that money aside into the rainy day fund. And so you’ve seen opponents of Proposition two say, look, the point of this state spending limit that voters enacted in the late 70s was if more money is coming into the state, voters, taxpayers, residents should get it back. If Proposition two passes, less of that money in that situation will go back to taxpayers.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Patterson: \u003c/strong>We don’t have a rainy day fund in California. The voters thought they were passing a rainy-day fund, but they didn’t get a rainy–day fund.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Patterson: \u003c/strong>We don’t have a rainy day fund in California. The voters thought they were passing a rainy-day fund, but they didn’t get a rainy–day fund.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And here’s what Republican Assemblymember Joe Patterson had to say about this idea, this rainy day fund measure on the ballot back when it was being debated in the legislature in June.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And here’s what Republican Assemblymember Joe Patterson had to say about this idea, this rainy day fund measure on the ballot back when it was being debated in the legislature in June.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Patterson: \u003c/strong>All this does is create a bigger slush fund for money to be used the following years instead of returning money to the taxpayer, it just creates a bigger slash fund…\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Patterson: \u003c/strong>All this does is create a bigger slush fund for money to be used the following years instead of returning money to the taxpayer, it just creates a bigger slash fund…\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And looking at campaign spending on this measure so far, Guy, what are we seeing there? Is any group pouring any kind of money into this?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And looking at campaign spending on this measure so far, Guy, what are we seeing there? Is any group pouring any kind of money into this?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>So yeah, we’re really not seeing any spending on either side with Prop two. There is Reform California, which is a conservative group headed by Republican Assemblymember, Carl DeMaio. They’re opposing kind of a suite of ballot measures, including Prop two and Prop three, which a taxation measure. And so they’re actively trying to get the word out in opposition to Proposition two, but we really haven’t seen any kind of big spending really on either side of this.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>So yeah, we’re really not seeing any spending on either side with Prop two. There is Reform California, which is a conservative group headed by Republican Assemblymember, Carl DeMaio. They’re opposing kind of a suite of ballot measures, including Prop two and Prop three, which a taxation measure. And so they’re actively trying to get the word out in opposition to Proposition two, but we really haven’t seen any kind of big spending really on either side of this.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean, as we’ve just been talking about, this is sort of a wonky, confusing, very jargony feeling proposition. I’m curious from what you’ve seen. Is this proposition popular among voters so far, or do you think it’ll pass?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean, as we’ve just been talking about, this is sort of a wonky, confusing, very jargony feeling proposition. I’m curious from what you’ve seen. Is this proposition popular among voters so far, or do you think it’ll pass?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It does pose a couple interesting questions, I think, to California voters, where you kind of see this like collision of eras at play in this measure. Again, a lot of the the ballot measures that limited state spending and limited state taxes, those date back to the 1970s, where you did see this kind of citizen uprising against taxation and spending. But those rules are still on the books today. And some of them, supporters of Prop two would make it harder to save. And then you come to this area that we’re in. In California budgeting right now where we have these huge volatility swings because we’re relying so much on top earners. And I think the idea behind Proposition two is adapt to that new reality by being able to save more, although opponents would say it’s kind of betraying a lot of the promises that voters wanted in the 70s.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It does pose a couple interesting questions, I think, to California voters, where you kind of see this like collision of eras at play in this measure. Again, a lot of the the ballot measures that limited state spending and limited state taxes, those date back to the 1970s, where you did see this kind of citizen uprising against taxation and spending. But those rules are still on the books today. And some of them, supporters of Prop two would make it harder to save. And then you come to this area that we’re in. In California budgeting right now where we have these huge volatility swings because we’re relying so much on top earners. And I think the idea behind Proposition two is adapt to that new reality by being able to save more, although opponents would say it’s kind of betraying a lot of the promises that voters wanted in the 70s.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Guy, thank you so much as always for breaking this one down. Appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>In a nutshell, a yes vote on this measure means rules for building state budget reserves and paying down extra state debts would change. As a result, state budget reserve would be higher. A no vote on the measure means rules for building State budget reserves and paying extra state debt would not change.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That’s it for our latest episode of PropFest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. We’re breaking down every single statewide ballot proposition from now until October 9th. Subscribe to The Bay and Bay Curious so you don’t miss out on the next ones, and don’t forget to share them with your friends and family.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That’s it for our latest episode of PropFest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. We’re breaking down every single statewide ballot proposition from now until October 9th. Subscribe to The Bay and Bay Curious so you don’t miss out on the next ones, and don’t forget to share them with your friends and family.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Prop Fest is made possible thanks to Alan Montecillo, Gabriela Glueck, Pauline Bartolone, Katrina Schwartz, Olivia Allen-Price, Christopher Beale, Anna Casalme, and me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Our show is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. If you value podcasts like this one, please consider becoming a sustaining member of KQED. Learn more at donate.kqed.org/podcasts.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Our show is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. If you value podcasts like this one, please consider becoming a sustaining member of KQED. Learn more at donate.kqed.org/podcasts.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Support for The Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>And I’m Olivia Allen Price. We’ll be back tomorrow with an explainer on Proposition 3, which makes an existing tax on high incomes permanent.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>And I’m Olivia Allen Price. We’ll be back tomorrow with an explainer on Proposition 3, which makes an existing tax on high incomes permanent.\u003c/p>\n"
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript:\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Let’s go back to 2014 for a second. Pharrell Williams’ ‘Happy’ was making its way up the billboard charts. Jerry Brown was governor and California was going through a really tough budget time.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Brown had come back into office in the midst of the Great Recession and he was kind of obsessed with being resourceful and careful with money.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jerry Brown: \u003c/strong>Boom and bust is our lot, and we must follow the ancient advice recounted in the book of Genesis that Joseph gave to the Pharaoh. Put away your surplus during the years are great plenty, so you’ll be ready for the lean years which are sure to follow.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>In 2014, Brown persuaded voters to strengthen the state’s Rainy Day Fund: The pot of money created to make sure that California is saving when the good times are good, while also paying down its debts.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Now fast forward to today and Proposition 2, which asks voters to make that Rainy Day Fund even bigger.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>And I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious. Welcome to Prop Fest, a collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curious. We’re here to break down each of the propositions on the California ballot so you can vote with confidence in the November election.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Today, we’re discussing proposition two. It reads like this on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voice Over: \u003c/strong>Prop 2 increases state’s rainy day fund.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Here to walk us through all this is our politics and government correspondent, Guy Marzorati. Hey, Guy.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Hey Ericka.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So to dive into proposition two here, first of all, there’s just a lot of, I feel like, big jargony words in here. Can you walk us through just what proposition two is all about?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, Proposition 2 is all about California’s Rainy Day Fund. So this is a fund that’s officially known as the budget stabilization account, but it’s basically where state lawmakers store our tax revenue in good times in order to save for bad budget times. Proposition two would change the laws around that rainy day fund to allow the legislature and the governor to save even more money in the rainy day fund in future years.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And what exactly is a rainy day fund? Like what are the kinds of things the state might use rainy day funds for?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It just flows from this thing saving for a rainy day. But the general idea is, you know, California’s tax revenue is not going to be the exact same year to year. How much people pay in taxes is based on how much they make. And in any given year, if the economy is going well, if their stock market is going well or it’s going poorly, the amount of money that California brings in is going to fluctuate. And that’s actually even more acute in California because we have a progressive tax system, which means people who earn more income pay a higher rate of income tax. And those high earners in California, the money they’re making year to year is volatile because it really has to do in many cases with how the stock market is doing. So California, more than many other states, sees this kind of big fluctuation in year to year and how much revenue is coming in.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>And so the idea of a rainy day fund is to say, look, in years where the money is just flowing in from taxpayers, let’s set some of it aside because we know there could very quickly be years coming where we don’t have enough money to meet all of the state’s spending commitments.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Just for some context, in the last five years in California, we’ve both had a budget surplus that’s reached around $100 billion and also a budget deficit around $50 billion. It makes it really difficult year to year to project how much money is going to come in to California. Because it’s difficult to project, it can often be difficult for state lawmakers to really have a clear picture of the budget when they’re enacting it. And so Proposition 2, which would grow the rainy day fund, really offers more of kind of a safety net for state legislators as we see tax revenue fluctuate up and down.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah, let’s talk a little bit more about how Proposition 2 would actually change how the rainy day fund works. How much more money could it allow California to put away?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so it’s really two big changes that Proposition 2 makes around the rainy day fund. One is just growing the maximum size of the fund. Right now, the max that lawmakers can put into the rainy-day fund in any given year is 10% of general fund tax revenue. Proposition two would double that. So they’d be allowed to put in up to 20% of general-fund tax revenue in a given year. The second big change it makes is it would count saving i.e. putting money in the rainy day fund, it would not count that as spending. And that’s a really important distinction and change around the state spending limit with the effect that lawmakers would be able to save more in those kind of big budget years.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So you mentioned spending limits just now and you’re talking about something called the Gann limit, which is actually in the actual title of this proposition. So what is the Gann limit and what does it have to do with prop two?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so the Gann limit was approved by California voters in the late 70s.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Archival Footage: \u003c/strong>California was the epicenter of the tax quake of ‘78, and they were the shakers, Howard Jarvis and Paul Gann.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>So that was a time, it was also when Proposition 13, which dramatically cut property tax rates, was passed. It was really this era of citizen initiatives really cutting back state taxation and state spending.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Archival Footage: \u003c/strong>We’ve just about had a belly full of the growth of government, the cost of government the waste.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>So the Gann limit was approved by California voters. It sets the state spending limit. And if the amount of tax revenue that comes into the state in any given year exceeds that spending limit, then some of that money needs to actually be just returned directly to taxpayers. So right now with the rainy day funds, money that gets placed into the fund is counted as state spending. So if you’re counting that as state-spending, it also limits how much the state can save. And the way that Proposition 2 would change that is basically saying anytime lawmakers set aside money in the rainy day fund, it won’t count as an act of spending. So therefore, they’re gonna be able to save more.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Hmm. So, I mean, one big part of Prop 2 is about getting the state to save more when times are good. And another big part is how they use their money to pay off debts. Can you walk me through that part?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so that’s right. So basically, the state every year has to set aside money, about 1.5% of general fund revenue, half of that goes into the rainy day fund, half of those goes into paying down debts. So right now though, the debt that the state can pay down with that money is kind of limited. It either has to be the state’s unfunded pension liability, so pensions for retired state employees, or what the state will owe in the future to state employees for their health care.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>What Proposition 2 does is say that money that you’re setting aside to pay down debts, you can pay more different kinds of debts with that money. So for example, paying the federal government back for state unemployment loans. During the COVID pandemic, California borrowed more than $20 billion from the federal Government in order to pay unemployment because we had this sudden spike in unemployment. And the state still hasn’t paid back that money in full. And what Proposition two would allow is, when the state sets aside money to pay down debts, one of the ways it can use that is to pay the federal government back.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We’ll have more with KQED’s Guy Marzorati right after this break. By the way, if you appreciate the work we’re doing here on Prop Fest, consider becoming a sustaining KQED member. We can’t do this work without you. Just go to donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I guess one big question I have is why is this something that me, a voter, is being asked to decide on? Like it kind of feels like the kind of work that I might imagine our state legislature sort of deciding on.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, no, that’s a that’s a great question. And this ballot measure, Proposition 2, was actually placed on the ballot by the state legislature. It was necessary to do that because Proposition 2 makes changes to laws that were passed by California voters. So not only that the rainy day fund that California voters enacted, but it also changes rules around the state’s spending limit, which was also set by California voters back in the 70s. So since voters put those rules into law, the legislature has to go back to voters to ask them for changes to those laws.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, we talked about some of the changes Prop 2 would make to how we spend and save in California, but who exactly is for this and what is their rationale for putting this on the ballot and for making these changes?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so the big proponent of this idea is Governor Gavin Newsom, who has wanted, has talked about this idea for a few years of expanding the size of the rainy day fund. And Newsom has kind of talked about his idea through the lens of regret. He wished he had done this exact reform earlier to grow the rainy-day fund, so that yes, when the state had a budget surplus of about $100 billion after the pandemic, when the stock market had surged and all these tech companies were doing incredibly well and tax revenue was just flowing into the state, Newsom was like, I wish at that time I could have set aside more of that money because right around the corner, just a couple years later, the state was dealing with a huge deficit.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gavin Newsom: \u003c/strong>So there are a lot of those things that we can look back, but again, you had political capital today, you didn’t have that. You have different legislative leadership, you have different public consciousness and opinion, you have a different president, different way, you know. So all those things, you now, I don’t wallow in that…\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And so he’s really pushed this idea and is backing it on the ballot. And in addition to the governor, we’ve seen kind of broad support amongst Democrats. The California Democratic Party is supporting Proposition two. And when this measure was placed on the ballot, it was almost entirely a party-line vote. So Democrats supported it. There was only one Republican in the legislature who supported putting it on a ballot. And here’s Bakersfield Senator Melissa Hurtado talking about why this is necessary.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Melissa Hurtado: \u003c/strong>Our job here as legislators, as senators, is to protect Californians. And I believe ACA 20 will do that. It will make us more disciplined, not just in saving, but also in spending.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What about who is against this proposition, Guy, and what’s the rationale on that side of things?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so we did see opposition from Republicans in the legislature to putting this on the ballot. And we’ve seen opposition from anti-tax groups to Proposition two as well. And their argument is that this measure would make it less likely for Californians to get a refund when there’s a lot of tax revenue coming in. And that happened back in 1987, and the state refunded more than a billion dollars to taxpayers. Right now, we have that state spending limit. If the state is bringing in more money than it can spend, it has to give some of that money back to taxpayers. If Proposition two passes, the state can instead set more of that money aside into the rainy day fund. And so you’ve seen opponents of Proposition two say, look, the point of this state spending limit that voters enacted in the late 70s was if more money is coming into the state, voters, taxpayers, residents should get it back. If Proposition two passes, less of that money in that situation will go back to taxpayers.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Patterson: \u003c/strong>We don’t have a rainy day fund in California. The voters thought they were passing a rainy-day fund, but they didn’t get a rainy–day fund.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And here’s what Republican Assemblymember Joe Patterson had to say about this idea, this rainy day fund measure on the ballot back when it was being debated in the legislature in June.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Patterson: \u003c/strong>All this does is create a bigger slush fund for money to be used the following years instead of returning money to the taxpayer, it just creates a bigger slash fund…\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And looking at campaign spending on this measure so far, Guy, what are we seeing there? Is any group pouring any kind of money into this?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>So yeah, we’re really not seeing any spending on either side with Prop two. There is Reform California, which is a conservative group headed by Republican Assemblymember, Carl DeMaio. They’re opposing kind of a suite of ballot measures, including Prop two and Prop three, which a taxation measure. And so they’re actively trying to get the word out in opposition to Proposition two, but we really haven’t seen any kind of big spending really on either side of this.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean, as we’ve just been talking about, this is sort of a wonky, confusing, very jargony feeling proposition. I’m curious from what you’ve seen. Is this proposition popular among voters so far, or do you think it’ll pass?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It does pose a couple interesting questions, I think, to California voters, where you kind of see this like collision of eras at play in this measure. Again, a lot of the the ballot measures that limited state spending and limited state taxes, those date back to the 1970s, where you did see this kind of citizen uprising against taxation and spending. But those rules are still on the books today. And some of them, supporters of Prop two would make it harder to save. And then you come to this area that we’re in. In California budgeting right now where we have these huge volatility swings because we’re relying so much on top earners. And I think the idea behind Proposition two is adapt to that new reality by being able to save more, although opponents would say it’s kind of betraying a lot of the promises that voters wanted in the 70s.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Guy, thank you so much as always for breaking this one down. Appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>In a nutshell, a yes vote on this measure means rules for building state budget reserves and paying down extra state debts would change. As a result, state budget reserve would be higher. A no vote on the measure means rules for building State budget reserves and paying extra state debt would not change.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That’s it for our latest episode of PropFest, a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. We’re breaking down every single statewide ballot proposition from now until October 9th. Subscribe to The Bay and Bay Curious so you don’t miss out on the next ones, and don’t forget to share them with your friends and family.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Prop Fest is made possible thanks to Alan Montecillo, Gabriela Glueck, Pauline Bartolone, Katrina Schwartz, Olivia Allen-Price, Christopher Beale, Anna Casalme, and me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>We get extra support from Katie Springer, Jen Chien, Maha Sanad, Ethan Tovan Lindsey and everyone on Team KQED.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>You can find audio and transcripts for this series at kqed.org/prop fest.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Our show is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. If you value podcasts like this one, please consider becoming a sustaining member of KQED. Learn more at donate.kqed.org/podcasts.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Support for The Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>And I’m Olivia Allen Price. We’ll be back tomorrow with an explainer on Proposition 3, which makes an existing tax on high incomes permanent.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We’ll talk then.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"soldout": {
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"title": "SOLD OUT: Rethinking Housing in America",
"tagline": "A new future for housing",
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