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Play our \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/baycurious#hearken-10392\">trivia contest\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/newsletters/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">sign up for our newsletter\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://survey.alchemer.com/s3/7325022/e2726178469b\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">take our latest survey\u003c/a>, and \u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/baycuriousbook\">check out our book\u003c/a>.","blurbImageAlt":"Bay Curious","blurbImageUrl":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Bay-Curious-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","previewID":"news_11156856","hasSponsorLogo":true},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/columns","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/column","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/hearken","attrs":{"iframeId":"656","className":"half-width"},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/column","attrs":{"heading":"Voting Round"},"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/hearken","attrs":{"header":"Voting Round","iframeId":"4627","className":"half-width"},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/post-list","attrs":{"layout":"cardsRecent","query":"posts?series=baycurious&queryId=aa6f0c4f7e","title":"Stories","seeMore":true,"sizeBase":6,"sizeSeeMore":6},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/hearken","attrs":{"header":"Monthly Trivia Contest","summary":"Thanks for playing our trivia game, sponsored by Sierra Nevada Brewing Company! From all correct entries, we'll randomly select one winner each month for the prize pack of Bay Curious and Sierra Nevada goodies (Approximate value $50).","iframeId":"10392","className":"full-width"},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken full-width\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken full-width\">\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/listen-and-subscribe","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/email-signup","attrs":{"newsletterSlug":"baycurious"},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/columns","attrs":{"heading":"Contact / Follow"},"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/column","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"core/heading","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Contact Us\u003c/h2>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Contact Us\u003c/h2>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/section","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"core/paragraph","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cp>Send us a note at \u003ca href=\"mailto:baycurious@kqed.org\">baycurious@kqed.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cp>Send us a note at \u003ca href=\"mailto:baycurious@kqed.org\">baycurious@kqed.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"core/paragraph","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\n\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/column","attrs":{"heading":"Follow Us"},"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"core/heading","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Follow Us\u003c/h2>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Follow Us\u003c/h2>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/section","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"core/paragraph","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cp>Follow us on Instagram:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/oallenprice/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cp>Follow us on Instagram:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/oallenprice/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n"]},{"blockName":"core/paragraph","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cp>Follow us on Twitter:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/kqedbaycurious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@kqedbaycurious\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/oallenprice\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cp>Follow us on Twitter:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/kqedbaycurious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@kqedbaycurious\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/oallenprice\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/biographies","attrs":{"heading":"The Bay Curious Team","bioType":"white"},"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/biographies-item","attrs":{"mediaURL":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/11/IMG_2562-e1572650381510.jpg","mediaAlt":"Olivia Allen-Price","name":"Olivia Allen-Price","position":"Host / Editor","bio":"Olivia is a big believer in the value of public-powered journalism. She helped launch \u003cem>Bay Curious\u003c/em> as a radio series in 2015, then turned it into a podcast in 2017. Before working on the show, Olivia was an engagement producer at KQED. She's also worked at \u003cem>The Baltimore Sun\u003c/em> and \u003cem>The Virginian-Pilot\u003c/em>. When not tethered to a computer by a pair of headphones, Olivia loves running, playing with other people's dogs and taking weekend trips around California. Follow her on \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/oallenprice\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Twitter\u003c/a> or \u003ca href=\"https://instagram.com/oallenprice\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Instagram.\u003c/a>","link":"/author/oallenprice"},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/biographies-item","attrs":{"mediaURL":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/a6a567574dafefa959593925eead665c?s=600&d=https://i.imgur.com/u9MDiPR.png&r=g","mediaAlt":"Katrina Schwartz","name":"Katrina Schwartz","position":"Producer","bio":"Katrina grew up in San Francisco and loves learning new things about her hometown. She helped pilot the first iteration of\u003cem> Bay Curious\u003c/em> when it was just a radio feature. Before joining the team, Katrina reported on education for \u003cem>MindShift\u003c/em> and was a finalist for the Education Writers Association beat reporting and audio storytelling awards. She co-hosts the \u003cem>MindShift\u003c/em> podcast about the future of learning, and has been making radio since 2010. 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Check out \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">KQED’s Voter Guide\u003c/a> for more information on state and local races.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2014, Californians passed Prop 47, a criminal justice reform measure aimed at sending fewer low-level offenders for drug and theft crimes to prison. Now, Californians are being asked if they want to roll back some of those reforms, and increase the penalties. KQED Politics Correspondent and co-host of Political Breakdown Marisa Lagos takes us through the history, data and arguments of this prop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC2352266478&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a transcript of the episode.\u003c/em>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So, recently I was in one of those big box stores in search of a humble can of shaving cream… I make my way to the pharmacy section. Find the right aisle. But then I get to the shelf and … my shaving cream is locked behind plexiglass.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Been there before. But with toothpaste. And Tums. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Right. I mean, we’re talking about a can of shaving cream that costs $2.19… and yet, there I was. Ringing a bell, having someone unlock this cabinet for me, annoyed that this is the state of affairs where I live…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Also I don’t know if it’s \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">just a me thing, \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">but I get super self conscious about inconveniencing employees for some toothpaste. But I digress …\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Same. The proliferation of these plexiglass cases for shaving cream and toothpaste, is just one example of how rising concerns about crime and theft are changing how we live. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But proponents of Prop 36 want to take these measures even further – waaaaay beyond some plexiglass case at the local Target. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay. And y’all – we’ve made it! To the final episode of Prop Fest, our ten part series that goes deep on the California propositions.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">All so you can vote with confidence! Today we’re digging into Proposition 36, which would increase penalties for some drug and theft-related crimes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> It’s a rollback of criminal justice reforms from a decade ago – and would put more people behind bars in California.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> But doing so would cost the state money that would otherwise be used for treatment programs that are working.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We’ll get into it all, right after this. Stay with us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">SPONSOR MESSAGE\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Alrighty, for our final day of Prop Fest, we’re discussing Prop 36, which will read about like this on your ballot..\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Samantha Lim:\u003c/b> Prop 36 is a statute that allows felony charges and increases sentences for certain drug and theft crimes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">To help us understand what’s at stake with Prop 36, I’m joined by KQED politics correspondent and co-host of the podcast Political Breakdown, Marisa Lagos. Hey, Marisa.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Hey, Olivia.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So Prop 36 has a lot of parts to it which will break down one at a time in just a minute. But to kick us off broadly, what is Prop 36 flooking to do?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I mean, essentially it is looking to crack down on both shoplifting and sort of low level thefts and drug use, which its backers say are sort of the responsible for a lot of the homelessness and kind of the crisis you see in retail stores where everything is locked up. And what they see is really a chaotic sort of state of play on the ground here in California.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Now, Prop 36 has undone some of the changes that voters ushered in in 2014 with the passage of Prop 47, which, you know, is one of the probably biggest criminal justice reforms that California has ever passed. Let’s walk through a little bit like what did that prop do? Because so much of 36 is about unwinding, undoing 47.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">When Prop 47 passed, we were kind of in this era of trying to reverse a lot of the tough on crime laws. And that wasn’t just out of the goodness of everybody’s heart in California, it’s because the Supreme Court of the United States told California, your prisons are overcrowded. It’s resulting in unsafe conditions for prisoners, and you must figure out a way to reduce the prison population, or we’re just going to start letting people out of the state prisons. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so this was one in a series of initiatives that were put forward both by the Democratic governor at the time, Jerry Brown, passed by lawmakers. And then this one was one that kind of came from the outside. Proponents gathered signatures and put it on the ballot. And essentially their argument at the time was, hey, why are we wasting bed space on people who aren’t actually a danger to society? They’re drug users. They’re poor people who are stealing because they’re poor. They should not be in state prison. They should be getting help. And if we pass this, we can use the money we’d save on putting them in prison to actually help them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Let’s use it for reentry programs, for drug treatment, programs, for rehabilitation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Prop 47 passed in 2014 with nearly 60% California voters voting in favor. How’s it all gone over?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think you can argue it did what it set out to do. It saved $800 million a year in prison costs. And that money was invested into programs that have largely had very successful track records. I mean, if you look at the recidivism rates of people who are just let out of state prison versus those who go into Prop 47-funded programs, there’s no comparison. People who participate in these 47 funded programs are incredibly unlikely to re-offend. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so I think part of what we’re talking about here is like. It’s almost like folks are having two different conversations because the proponents of Prop 47 would say, look, we saved this money. We helped people in the process. And the folks on the other side are like, Yeah, but we still have problems with homelessness and drug use and theft. And so, you know, I don’t think anybody who promoted Prop 47 argued that this would end those other issues. I think the question is whether Prop 47 contributed to them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And that’s a question that’s tricky to answer from a data perspective. What can we say about?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Alright well first let’s talk about theft. In truth, really, a lot of the of problems we’ve seen from a numbers perspective actually only went up in the last couple of years. The first several years after Prop 47 passed, there was n ot a huge spike in shoplifting, there was not a huge spike in a lot of the types of, you know, retail theft that have gotten so much attention. But since the pandemic, we have seen some upticks. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I’ll just flag because this is who’s backing this: law enforcement never liked Prop 47. And so a lot of what we’re seeing now, I think, is a reaction to a policy that was always sort of reviled within the police and prosecutor community.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So you talked a little bit about how Prop 47 worked. What were some of the critiques that people have had about Prop 47?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Right. So I think people who are critical of this see it as kind of letting people off the hook. They think that a misdemeanor is not a serious enough consequence. If somebody is repeatedly shoplifting, if somebody is going into a store again and again and stealing an amount that’s under $950, which is that felony threshold. But that, you know, they know they can get away with it, essentially. And so what we have seen is a real decrease in the number of arrests that are made for those types of thefts. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And then obviously, we have seen just an explosion of the fentanyl crisis on our streets. You know, in our hospitals. You just have such a dire situation with this incredibly addictive drug that also is so strong that it leads to a lot of overdoses. And so, you know, I think the people backing Prop 36 think that there is a tie between what changed in 2014 with Prop 47 and the fentanyl crisis, and it’s not just because the drugs are stronger, but it’s because. There is not an incentive for drug users to accept treatment if they get arrested. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I know this is a pretty important nuance in this one – can you explain how those incentives have changed?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> So prior to Prop 47, a lot of district attorneys, if they had somebody who was clearly a drug addict, not necessarily somebody selling drugs, would say, “Hey, you have an option here. You can either take a year in prison or jail. Or you could take drug treatment. And if you complete this drug treatment program, we will wipe that off your record. You will not have a felony drug possession charge anymore.” And a lot of people would take that. But if you’re told it’s going to be a slap on the wrist and a small fine, or maybe you don’t even get arrested at all, you might say, I’m going to keep using.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What we have seen since Prop 47 passed is a real decrease in the number of people who are willing to go into these diversion programs like drug court. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I talked to Yolo County District Attorney Jeff Reisig. He’s a big proponent of Prop 36, and he says that he has seen this reality in his own county, even as they’ve really tried to put resources into these drug courts.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jeff Reisig: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The percentage of the population that these new prop 47 programs are serving is like 15% or lower of the total population of individuals that used to be present in drug courts across California. It may be even lower than that in some places, but I can the data in Yolo shows that we used to on average have anywhere from 340 to 500 people a year in drug courts. And the only way you get into a drug court is if, you know, you were caught with possession of hard drugs, right? Meth. Heroin. Cocaine. Fentanyl. PCP. And then after prop 47 passed, those drug courts just slowly started to disappear because there was no incentive anymore for people to participate. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Voters are now being asked if they want to bring back these harsher penalties. How did this get on the ballot in the first place and why this 180?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. So I mentioned before that this has always been a policy that was very disliked by prosecutors and law enforcement. So district attorneys were kind of the lead folks who crafted Prop 36 and went out to get signatures from voters to put it on the ballot. At the time, as they were collecting these signatures, there was a debate happening in Sacramento about what I’ve alluded to, which is a real crisis for retailers in terms of not just simple shoplifting, people coming in and stealing small amounts of things, but also organized retail theft rings who are coming in. You know, you’ve seen those videos of the smash and grabs, but that’s the tip of the iceberg. You know, we’ve seen a lot of organized criminal gangs essentially target big box stores, small mom and pop stores, steal huge amounts of things and then resell them maybe on online marketplaces or on the street. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">As prosecutors were pushing this ballot measure, a lot of these retailers were getting very frustrated that in the past few years, the legislature and Democratic governor hadn’t been willing to take on this issue. And so a lot of them – Home Depot, Wal-Mart, Target – put in $500,000, $1 million to help get this on the ballot there. It is not clear whether they are going to continue to support this ballot measure, because we did see the legislature and Governor Gavin Newsom actually really tackle this issue this year and pass a huge package of laws that are broadly aimed at the more serious organized retail crime issue. But this is something that I think prosecutors had had their eye on for a long time, and they saw the politics shifting as we came out of the pandemic and the visibility of this retail theft issue became so apparent to voters. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so, you know, it went viral on social media. We’ve seen so much outrage on cable news and in the media in general. And I think it just really built to a breaking point where they were … it was very easy for them to ask voters to sign this. And we’re seeing polling now that it’s very likely to pass.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">OK, so that all brings us to where we are this year, considering Proposition 36. It proposes a lot of different changes, and I want to step through some of them now. So let’s start with how it would increase punishments for drug crimes.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So Prop 36 would create something they’re calling treatment mandated felonies. Essentially, it would say if you have been arrested and prosecuted \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">previously\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> for drug possession that a prosecutor would have the option to charge you with a felony on a third arrest, and if they did they could also offer you something like drug court, where you participate in treatment, and if you complete that treatment the charge would be expunged and you receive no jail time. So, treatment mandated felony is what they’re calling it, but to be clear, nobody would be forced into treatment … they would have the option to take the felony or go into drug treatment.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I’ll note that there’s nothing in this ballot measure to increase funding for treatment. And so I think there are open questions about whether if this were to pass, there would actually be enough beds for all the folks who might get arrested and prosecuted under Prop 36. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Alright, and how would Prop 36 impact theft crimes?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, I mean under Prop 36, if you’re a repeat thief, you can also be charged with a felony, even if it’s for a small amount of something, you know, worth less than $950. And this is for people who have two previous convictions. So, prosecutors could send you to prison or county jail for repeatedly stealing things. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This is one of the kind of hearts of the prop 47 criticisms is that one person could sort of repeatedly go into the same store and never face a felony, even if they’re targeting the same place and, you know, really racking up big losses for that store and putting the employees at risk. So this kind of tries to get at that by saying, “hey, look, we’re not going to throw the book at you the first time you steal a small amount of something. But if you keep doing it, we can charge you with a felony by aggregating those offenses together.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And can you just break down for people who aren’t sort of living in the criminal justice world? Felony, misdemeanor. What is the difference there?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. So a misdemeanor is a crime. It can net you up to a year in county jail and fines. So if you get arrested for a misdemeanor, there’s some sort of discretion for a police officer whether they’re going to cite you right there, say a jaywalking ticket, or maybe if you get arrested for something more serious that they can take you and book you into county jail, you know, a misdemeanor DUI, for example, or something like that. A felony generally comes with more serious criminal penalties, including jail or prison time. It also tends to stick on your record longer. It can affect your ability to get a job later on. It can affect your ability to get housing to coach Little League, things like that. It’s a far more serious criminal penalty and one that has kind of longer lasting impacts on somebody’s life beyond just whatever the sentences for the felony that they’re convicted of.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Prop 36 also ups the stakes for people who are charged with selling or providing drugs. Can you sort of explain that, that part of this?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> So essentially, Prop 36 says that if you are caught selling or providing drugs to somebody, you could be admonished in court that if you continue to do this, you could get charged with murder. So, for example, if a dealer is given this warning in court, and then someone were to die because of drugs they sold, a prosecutor would have a better case for a murder charge and it definitely is something that harkens back to the kind of tough on crime laws of the 90s.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Now, on the ballot, this prop is titled The Increased Drug and Theft Penalties and Reduce Homelessness Initiative. But we haven’t talked that much about homelessness. What does this prop have to do with homelessness?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I mean, nothing directly. But as I said before, I think some of the proponents are really connecting the dots between poverty, drug use and homelessness, and particularly drug use and homelessness. You know, Jeff Reisig, the Yolo County D.A., has talked to me extensively about his nephew, who is a drug user, who is homeless and who has a very supportive, large family, who is willing to support him and get him into treatment, and he will not do it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jeff Reisig:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> My nephew, I told you, is a poster child for this whole deal. I mean, literally the poster child because he started using heroin in 2014, and he’s been on the streets ever since, and he steals every day to support his habit. And it’s all misdemeanors. And it’s just a big like, we want to force him into treatment. We want him to be compelled into treatment, but there’s no tool for that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so for someone like Reisig, he feels like if people are homeless and using drugs and they just keep getting essentially misdemeanor tickets for stealing or for that drug use, they’re just going to continue to hurt themselves and the communities around them and that this could be a way to essentially get them into that treatment that they need, that it could push them to do something that they may not be willing to do otherwise.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If Prop 36 passes, what kind of impact could this have on our prison population and thus the budget?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Right. So it would definitely cut into that $800 million that we have been saving because of Prop 47. The nonpartisan Legislative Analyst’s Office did do their own analysis of this. They’re not sure exactly what will happen because we don’t know, you know, how many people will get caught stealing or doing drugs, how many people prosecutors will choose to charge with felonies. But they’re estimating that it could cost tens of millions of dollars a year, to hundreds of millions of dollars a year in added incarceration costs. It’s a lot of money. It is still in the context of a over $100 billion state budget, a tiny percentage of that, something like one half of 1%. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But, you know, I think that you can argue that there will be obviously huge implications for the people who end up locked up. They say that up to a few thousand people could end up in jail and prison who would not be there otherwise. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And then also any of these programs that are doing good work in communities around rehabilitation or reentry, if they’re losing out on that money, there could be sort of domino effects there, because it’s not just the people that are going to be, you know, prosecuted under this. The people who will miss out on opportunities to get help because that money is now being spent on those prosecutions and jailings.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What are supporters of Prop 36 sort of arguing and who are they?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Right. So I mentioned the prosecutors, the District Attorney Association of California as the biggest proponent. We also saw major retailers like Target, Wal-Mart, Walgreens, Home Depot and initially back this. I’m waiting to hear if they’re going to continue to support this or if they’re just going to stay neutral. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think most interestingly, big city mayors – San Francisco’s London Breed, San Jose’s Matt Mahan, San Diego’s Todd Gloria. These are all pretty liberal Democrats who are backing this. I think that they see what we’re seeing reflected in polls, which show that this is wildly popular and that people are blaming them for a lot of these very visible issues both on the streets and in stores.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The California Republican Party is in support and I would say in the state legislature, we’ve seen kind of a split between more moderate members who do support this and more liberal members who are very reticent to return to any sort of tough on crime laws.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And let’s talk opposition. What’s the case being made there and who’s making it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The most high profile opponent of Prop 36 is definitely our Democratic governor, Gavin Newsom. He’s really been a long time proponent for these criminal justice reforms. He also backed Prop 64 to legalize marijuana, which had the effect of essentially like wiping a lot of people’s records. And so this is something I think he feels really strongly about. And he has been really reticent to admit any problems with Prop 47 because it is something that he has backed and I think believes in.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Gov. Gavin Newsom: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Everyone I know is rushing to reform Prop 47 to raise the threshold. OK. That’s not the fundamental issue. The fundamental issue is the other issues that are not 47 related. And that is the nature of retail theft has changed. It’s not just the onesie, twosies – yes, that’s an issue, I don’t deny that – but it’s also become deeply organized. And that’s what we need to go after. And that’s a whole different thing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">He’s out there. You have the legislative leadership who also shepherded a lot of these bills to tackle organized retail theft in opposition. The state Democratic Party has voted to oppose it. And then you have, I think, what you would expect, which is a lot of these criminal justice reform and civil liberties groups. Californians for Safety and Justice, who wrote Prop 47, the ACLU, the Anti Recidivism Coalition. These are groups that are largely on the ground working with the populations that were impacted by 47 that would be impacted by 36. And they say we’ve been down this road before and it didn’t work.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I sat down this year with Tinisch Hollins. She leads Californians for Safety and Justice, which originally wrote Prop 47 and has been one of the biggest leaders in pushing criminal justice reforms.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinisch Hollins:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> We’ve tried tough on crime right? Right. You tried. We’ve tried different policy. We don’t. We not only have scientific data or we have lived experience, and we have decades of proof that that doesn’t work. It doesn’t work as appropriate interventions for addiction.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Another thing, talking to Tinisch and a lot of folks within this world is that they feel like police and law enforcement have not been using the tools that they have at their disposal already to get at these problems. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I mentioned before, you know, you can arrest someone for a misdemeanor. We’ve seen a real pulling back by police since Prop 47 passed. Crime rates have held largely steady in a lot of these kind of property crimes. But clearance rates, which is essentially the arrest rates — how likely are you to get arrested for something? — have gone down by almost half in the last decade or two. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so if you’re in San Francisco and you commit a property crime, only 5% of those people get arrested. That’s not to say prosecuted, just arrested. And prosecutors can’t make a case if there’s no arrest. So Tinisch, I think, feels like this is not necessarily calling for a change in law and policy, but a change in how we apply the laws that already exist.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinisch Hollins: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We already have laws on the books to address those issues, right? Like selling fentanyl is a crime is a felony, right? People can go to jail or prison for that. The question is, “what is the challenge with making arrests?” I’m from San Francisco. I see this all the time. Right? So there’s a lot of public concern around it, and rightfully so, because the tools that law enforcement currently have are not being used. They’re being underutilized.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And how are things looking on the spending front for this one?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It is very uneven. I think about $9 million has been raised on the pro-Prop 36 side versus less than $200,000 for the opposition. Again, I think that this campaign is really just starting in earnest. Having someone like the governor on your side, on the no side, is a huge opportunity for what’s called earned media, right? You don’t have to go out and spend money if you’re the governor. You just talk and people put you on TV. But it does seem to me like the criminal justice reform advocates and the people on the no side, in some ways aren’t spending a lot of political capital and money to try to fight this, maybe because they feel like it’s kind of a foregone conclusion.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">All right. Such a fascinating topic. Thank you for breaking it all down for us, Marisa. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Thank you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Marisa Lagos is KQED’s politics correspondent and co-host of the podcast Political Breakdown.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Alrighty, here’s a semi-condensed review of all that….\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A vote yes on 36 means…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You want to increase sentences for certain drug and theft crimes. \u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You want to establish a new classification of crime, called a \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">treatment-mandated felony \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">that could be issued for certain drug offenses. These would give people charged with some drug felonies the option to get drug treatment instead, and have their record expunged.\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You want judges to be able to warn drug distributors that they could face murder charges if they are caught distributing drugs that lead to a death.\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A vote no would keep things they way they are now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And that’s a wrap on Prop Fest!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Pfew! It has been a journey, but thank you so much for coming along on the ride. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> If you found Prop Fest helpful, please share it with a friend, or give us some love on social media. We want to get the word out so everyone can listen before those ballots are due!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If you’re a new listener, welcome! We hope you’ll stick around. I’m Olivia Allen-Price, the host of Bay Curious, which is a weekly podcast that explores the hidden true stories of the San Francisco Bay Area.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay. We are local, Bay Area news to keep you rooted.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Subscribe to both shows to feel more connected to your Bay Area community, and in the know about what’s going on here!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Prop Fest is made with love by Alan Montecillo, Jessica Kariisa, Olivia Allen-Price, Amanda Font, Christopher Beale, Ana De Almeda Amaral, and me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We get extra support from Katie Sprenger, Jen Chien, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan …\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">…and the whole KQED family. Thank you so much for listening!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> We hope we’ve helped you to vote with confidence. Have a good one.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Californians are being asked if they want to increase the penalties for some drug and theft crimes.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1728009404,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":92,"wordCount":5139},"headData":{"title":"Transcript: Proposition 36 Would Increase Penalties for Some Drug and Theft Crimes | KQED","description":"Californians are being asked if they want to increase the penalties for some drug and theft crimes.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Transcript: Proposition 36 Would Increase Penalties for Some Drug and Theft Crimes","datePublished":"2024-10-04T03:00:56-07:00","dateModified":"2024-10-03T19:36:44-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"Prop Fest","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/propfest","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC2352266478.mp3?updated=1728009391","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/12007880/transcript-proposition-36-would-increase-penalties-for-some-drug-and-theft-crimes","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>Ana De Almeida Amaral contributed to this episode. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Prop Fest\u003c/a> is a collaboration from Bay Curious and The Bay podcasts, where we break down each of the 10 statewide propositions that will be on your November 2024 ballot. Check out \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">KQED’s Voter Guide\u003c/a> for more information on state and local races.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2014, Californians passed Prop 47, a criminal justice reform measure aimed at sending fewer low-level offenders for drug and theft crimes to prison. Now, Californians are being asked if they want to roll back some of those reforms, and increase the penalties. KQED Politics Correspondent and co-host of Political Breakdown Marisa Lagos takes us through the history, data and arguments of this prop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC2352266478&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a transcript of the episode.\u003c/em>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So, recently I was in one of those big box stores in search of a humble can of shaving cream… I make my way to the pharmacy section. Find the right aisle. But then I get to the shelf and … my shaving cream is locked behind plexiglass.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Been there before. But with toothpaste. And Tums. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Right. I mean, we’re talking about a can of shaving cream that costs $2.19… and yet, there I was. Ringing a bell, having someone unlock this cabinet for me, annoyed that this is the state of affairs where I live…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Also I don’t know if it’s \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">just a me thing, \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">but I get super self conscious about inconveniencing employees for some toothpaste. But I digress …\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Same. The proliferation of these plexiglass cases for shaving cream and toothpaste, is just one example of how rising concerns about crime and theft are changing how we live. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But proponents of Prop 36 want to take these measures even further – waaaaay beyond some plexiglass case at the local Target. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay. And y’all – we’ve made it! To the final episode of Prop Fest, our ten part series that goes deep on the California propositions.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">All so you can vote with confidence! Today we’re digging into Proposition 36, which would increase penalties for some drug and theft-related crimes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> It’s a rollback of criminal justice reforms from a decade ago – and would put more people behind bars in California.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> But doing so would cost the state money that would otherwise be used for treatment programs that are working.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We’ll get into it all, right after this. Stay with us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">SPONSOR MESSAGE\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Alrighty, for our final day of Prop Fest, we’re discussing Prop 36, which will read about like this on your ballot..\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Samantha Lim:\u003c/b> Prop 36 is a statute that allows felony charges and increases sentences for certain drug and theft crimes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">To help us understand what’s at stake with Prop 36, I’m joined by KQED politics correspondent and co-host of the podcast Political Breakdown, Marisa Lagos. Hey, Marisa.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Hey, Olivia.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So Prop 36 has a lot of parts to it which will break down one at a time in just a minute. But to kick us off broadly, what is Prop 36 flooking to do?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I mean, essentially it is looking to crack down on both shoplifting and sort of low level thefts and drug use, which its backers say are sort of the responsible for a lot of the homelessness and kind of the crisis you see in retail stores where everything is locked up. And what they see is really a chaotic sort of state of play on the ground here in California.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Now, Prop 36 has undone some of the changes that voters ushered in in 2014 with the passage of Prop 47, which, you know, is one of the probably biggest criminal justice reforms that California has ever passed. Let’s walk through a little bit like what did that prop do? Because so much of 36 is about unwinding, undoing 47.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">When Prop 47 passed, we were kind of in this era of trying to reverse a lot of the tough on crime laws. And that wasn’t just out of the goodness of everybody’s heart in California, it’s because the Supreme Court of the United States told California, your prisons are overcrowded. It’s resulting in unsafe conditions for prisoners, and you must figure out a way to reduce the prison population, or we’re just going to start letting people out of the state prisons. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so this was one in a series of initiatives that were put forward both by the Democratic governor at the time, Jerry Brown, passed by lawmakers. And then this one was one that kind of came from the outside. Proponents gathered signatures and put it on the ballot. And essentially their argument at the time was, hey, why are we wasting bed space on people who aren’t actually a danger to society? They’re drug users. They’re poor people who are stealing because they’re poor. They should not be in state prison. They should be getting help. And if we pass this, we can use the money we’d save on putting them in prison to actually help them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Let’s use it for reentry programs, for drug treatment, programs, for rehabilitation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Prop 47 passed in 2014 with nearly 60% California voters voting in favor. How’s it all gone over?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think you can argue it did what it set out to do. It saved $800 million a year in prison costs. And that money was invested into programs that have largely had very successful track records. I mean, if you look at the recidivism rates of people who are just let out of state prison versus those who go into Prop 47-funded programs, there’s no comparison. People who participate in these 47 funded programs are incredibly unlikely to re-offend. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so I think part of what we’re talking about here is like. It’s almost like folks are having two different conversations because the proponents of Prop 47 would say, look, we saved this money. We helped people in the process. And the folks on the other side are like, Yeah, but we still have problems with homelessness and drug use and theft. And so, you know, I don’t think anybody who promoted Prop 47 argued that this would end those other issues. I think the question is whether Prop 47 contributed to them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And that’s a question that’s tricky to answer from a data perspective. What can we say about?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Alright well first let’s talk about theft. In truth, really, a lot of the of problems we’ve seen from a numbers perspective actually only went up in the last couple of years. The first several years after Prop 47 passed, there was n ot a huge spike in shoplifting, there was not a huge spike in a lot of the types of, you know, retail theft that have gotten so much attention. But since the pandemic, we have seen some upticks. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I’ll just flag because this is who’s backing this: law enforcement never liked Prop 47. And so a lot of what we’re seeing now, I think, is a reaction to a policy that was always sort of reviled within the police and prosecutor community.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So you talked a little bit about how Prop 47 worked. What were some of the critiques that people have had about Prop 47?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Right. So I think people who are critical of this see it as kind of letting people off the hook. They think that a misdemeanor is not a serious enough consequence. If somebody is repeatedly shoplifting, if somebody is going into a store again and again and stealing an amount that’s under $950, which is that felony threshold. But that, you know, they know they can get away with it, essentially. And so what we have seen is a real decrease in the number of arrests that are made for those types of thefts. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And then obviously, we have seen just an explosion of the fentanyl crisis on our streets. You know, in our hospitals. You just have such a dire situation with this incredibly addictive drug that also is so strong that it leads to a lot of overdoses. And so, you know, I think the people backing Prop 36 think that there is a tie between what changed in 2014 with Prop 47 and the fentanyl crisis, and it’s not just because the drugs are stronger, but it’s because. There is not an incentive for drug users to accept treatment if they get arrested. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I know this is a pretty important nuance in this one – can you explain how those incentives have changed?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> So prior to Prop 47, a lot of district attorneys, if they had somebody who was clearly a drug addict, not necessarily somebody selling drugs, would say, “Hey, you have an option here. You can either take a year in prison or jail. Or you could take drug treatment. And if you complete this drug treatment program, we will wipe that off your record. You will not have a felony drug possession charge anymore.” And a lot of people would take that. But if you’re told it’s going to be a slap on the wrist and a small fine, or maybe you don’t even get arrested at all, you might say, I’m going to keep using.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What we have seen since Prop 47 passed is a real decrease in the number of people who are willing to go into these diversion programs like drug court. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I talked to Yolo County District Attorney Jeff Reisig. He’s a big proponent of Prop 36, and he says that he has seen this reality in his own county, even as they’ve really tried to put resources into these drug courts.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jeff Reisig: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The percentage of the population that these new prop 47 programs are serving is like 15% or lower of the total population of individuals that used to be present in drug courts across California. It may be even lower than that in some places, but I can the data in Yolo shows that we used to on average have anywhere from 340 to 500 people a year in drug courts. And the only way you get into a drug court is if, you know, you were caught with possession of hard drugs, right? Meth. Heroin. Cocaine. Fentanyl. PCP. And then after prop 47 passed, those drug courts just slowly started to disappear because there was no incentive anymore for people to participate. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Voters are now being asked if they want to bring back these harsher penalties. How did this get on the ballot in the first place and why this 180?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. So I mentioned before that this has always been a policy that was very disliked by prosecutors and law enforcement. So district attorneys were kind of the lead folks who crafted Prop 36 and went out to get signatures from voters to put it on the ballot. At the time, as they were collecting these signatures, there was a debate happening in Sacramento about what I’ve alluded to, which is a real crisis for retailers in terms of not just simple shoplifting, people coming in and stealing small amounts of things, but also organized retail theft rings who are coming in. You know, you’ve seen those videos of the smash and grabs, but that’s the tip of the iceberg. You know, we’ve seen a lot of organized criminal gangs essentially target big box stores, small mom and pop stores, steal huge amounts of things and then resell them maybe on online marketplaces or on the street. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">As prosecutors were pushing this ballot measure, a lot of these retailers were getting very frustrated that in the past few years, the legislature and Democratic governor hadn’t been willing to take on this issue. And so a lot of them – Home Depot, Wal-Mart, Target – put in $500,000, $1 million to help get this on the ballot there. It is not clear whether they are going to continue to support this ballot measure, because we did see the legislature and Governor Gavin Newsom actually really tackle this issue this year and pass a huge package of laws that are broadly aimed at the more serious organized retail crime issue. But this is something that I think prosecutors had had their eye on for a long time, and they saw the politics shifting as we came out of the pandemic and the visibility of this retail theft issue became so apparent to voters. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so, you know, it went viral on social media. We’ve seen so much outrage on cable news and in the media in general. And I think it just really built to a breaking point where they were … it was very easy for them to ask voters to sign this. And we’re seeing polling now that it’s very likely to pass.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">OK, so that all brings us to where we are this year, considering Proposition 36. It proposes a lot of different changes, and I want to step through some of them now. So let’s start with how it would increase punishments for drug crimes.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So Prop 36 would create something they’re calling treatment mandated felonies. Essentially, it would say if you have been arrested and prosecuted \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">previously\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> for drug possession that a prosecutor would have the option to charge you with a felony on a third arrest, and if they did they could also offer you something like drug court, where you participate in treatment, and if you complete that treatment the charge would be expunged and you receive no jail time. So, treatment mandated felony is what they’re calling it, but to be clear, nobody would be forced into treatment … they would have the option to take the felony or go into drug treatment.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I’ll note that there’s nothing in this ballot measure to increase funding for treatment. And so I think there are open questions about whether if this were to pass, there would actually be enough beds for all the folks who might get arrested and prosecuted under Prop 36. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Alright, and how would Prop 36 impact theft crimes?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, I mean under Prop 36, if you’re a repeat thief, you can also be charged with a felony, even if it’s for a small amount of something, you know, worth less than $950. And this is for people who have two previous convictions. So, prosecutors could send you to prison or county jail for repeatedly stealing things. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This is one of the kind of hearts of the prop 47 criticisms is that one person could sort of repeatedly go into the same store and never face a felony, even if they’re targeting the same place and, you know, really racking up big losses for that store and putting the employees at risk. So this kind of tries to get at that by saying, “hey, look, we’re not going to throw the book at you the first time you steal a small amount of something. But if you keep doing it, we can charge you with a felony by aggregating those offenses together.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And can you just break down for people who aren’t sort of living in the criminal justice world? Felony, misdemeanor. What is the difference there?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. So a misdemeanor is a crime. It can net you up to a year in county jail and fines. So if you get arrested for a misdemeanor, there’s some sort of discretion for a police officer whether they’re going to cite you right there, say a jaywalking ticket, or maybe if you get arrested for something more serious that they can take you and book you into county jail, you know, a misdemeanor DUI, for example, or something like that. A felony generally comes with more serious criminal penalties, including jail or prison time. It also tends to stick on your record longer. It can affect your ability to get a job later on. It can affect your ability to get housing to coach Little League, things like that. It’s a far more serious criminal penalty and one that has kind of longer lasting impacts on somebody’s life beyond just whatever the sentences for the felony that they’re convicted of.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Prop 36 also ups the stakes for people who are charged with selling or providing drugs. Can you sort of explain that, that part of this?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> So essentially, Prop 36 says that if you are caught selling or providing drugs to somebody, you could be admonished in court that if you continue to do this, you could get charged with murder. So, for example, if a dealer is given this warning in court, and then someone were to die because of drugs they sold, a prosecutor would have a better case for a murder charge and it definitely is something that harkens back to the kind of tough on crime laws of the 90s.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Now, on the ballot, this prop is titled The Increased Drug and Theft Penalties and Reduce Homelessness Initiative. But we haven’t talked that much about homelessness. What does this prop have to do with homelessness?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I mean, nothing directly. But as I said before, I think some of the proponents are really connecting the dots between poverty, drug use and homelessness, and particularly drug use and homelessness. You know, Jeff Reisig, the Yolo County D.A., has talked to me extensively about his nephew, who is a drug user, who is homeless and who has a very supportive, large family, who is willing to support him and get him into treatment, and he will not do it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jeff Reisig:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> My nephew, I told you, is a poster child for this whole deal. I mean, literally the poster child because he started using heroin in 2014, and he’s been on the streets ever since, and he steals every day to support his habit. And it’s all misdemeanors. And it’s just a big like, we want to force him into treatment. We want him to be compelled into treatment, but there’s no tool for that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so for someone like Reisig, he feels like if people are homeless and using drugs and they just keep getting essentially misdemeanor tickets for stealing or for that drug use, they’re just going to continue to hurt themselves and the communities around them and that this could be a way to essentially get them into that treatment that they need, that it could push them to do something that they may not be willing to do otherwise.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If Prop 36 passes, what kind of impact could this have on our prison population and thus the budget?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Right. So it would definitely cut into that $800 million that we have been saving because of Prop 47. The nonpartisan Legislative Analyst’s Office did do their own analysis of this. They’re not sure exactly what will happen because we don’t know, you know, how many people will get caught stealing or doing drugs, how many people prosecutors will choose to charge with felonies. But they’re estimating that it could cost tens of millions of dollars a year, to hundreds of millions of dollars a year in added incarceration costs. It’s a lot of money. It is still in the context of a over $100 billion state budget, a tiny percentage of that, something like one half of 1%. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But, you know, I think that you can argue that there will be obviously huge implications for the people who end up locked up. They say that up to a few thousand people could end up in jail and prison who would not be there otherwise. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And then also any of these programs that are doing good work in communities around rehabilitation or reentry, if they’re losing out on that money, there could be sort of domino effects there, because it’s not just the people that are going to be, you know, prosecuted under this. The people who will miss out on opportunities to get help because that money is now being spent on those prosecutions and jailings.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What are supporters of Prop 36 sort of arguing and who are they?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Right. So I mentioned the prosecutors, the District Attorney Association of California as the biggest proponent. We also saw major retailers like Target, Wal-Mart, Walgreens, Home Depot and initially back this. I’m waiting to hear if they’re going to continue to support this or if they’re just going to stay neutral. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think most interestingly, big city mayors – San Francisco’s London Breed, San Jose’s Matt Mahan, San Diego’s Todd Gloria. These are all pretty liberal Democrats who are backing this. I think that they see what we’re seeing reflected in polls, which show that this is wildly popular and that people are blaming them for a lot of these very visible issues both on the streets and in stores.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The California Republican Party is in support and I would say in the state legislature, we’ve seen kind of a split between more moderate members who do support this and more liberal members who are very reticent to return to any sort of tough on crime laws.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And let’s talk opposition. What’s the case being made there and who’s making it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The most high profile opponent of Prop 36 is definitely our Democratic governor, Gavin Newsom. He’s really been a long time proponent for these criminal justice reforms. He also backed Prop 64 to legalize marijuana, which had the effect of essentially like wiping a lot of people’s records. And so this is something I think he feels really strongly about. And he has been really reticent to admit any problems with Prop 47 because it is something that he has backed and I think believes in.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Gov. Gavin Newsom: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Everyone I know is rushing to reform Prop 47 to raise the threshold. OK. That’s not the fundamental issue. The fundamental issue is the other issues that are not 47 related. And that is the nature of retail theft has changed. It’s not just the onesie, twosies – yes, that’s an issue, I don’t deny that – but it’s also become deeply organized. And that’s what we need to go after. And that’s a whole different thing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">He’s out there. You have the legislative leadership who also shepherded a lot of these bills to tackle organized retail theft in opposition. The state Democratic Party has voted to oppose it. And then you have, I think, what you would expect, which is a lot of these criminal justice reform and civil liberties groups. Californians for Safety and Justice, who wrote Prop 47, the ACLU, the Anti Recidivism Coalition. These are groups that are largely on the ground working with the populations that were impacted by 47 that would be impacted by 36. And they say we’ve been down this road before and it didn’t work.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I sat down this year with Tinisch Hollins. She leads Californians for Safety and Justice, which originally wrote Prop 47 and has been one of the biggest leaders in pushing criminal justice reforms.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinisch Hollins:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> We’ve tried tough on crime right? Right. You tried. We’ve tried different policy. We don’t. We not only have scientific data or we have lived experience, and we have decades of proof that that doesn’t work. It doesn’t work as appropriate interventions for addiction.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Another thing, talking to Tinisch and a lot of folks within this world is that they feel like police and law enforcement have not been using the tools that they have at their disposal already to get at these problems. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I mentioned before, you know, you can arrest someone for a misdemeanor. We’ve seen a real pulling back by police since Prop 47 passed. Crime rates have held largely steady in a lot of these kind of property crimes. But clearance rates, which is essentially the arrest rates — how likely are you to get arrested for something? — have gone down by almost half in the last decade or two. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so if you’re in San Francisco and you commit a property crime, only 5% of those people get arrested. That’s not to say prosecuted, just arrested. And prosecutors can’t make a case if there’s no arrest. So Tinisch, I think, feels like this is not necessarily calling for a change in law and policy, but a change in how we apply the laws that already exist.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinisch Hollins: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We already have laws on the books to address those issues, right? Like selling fentanyl is a crime is a felony, right? People can go to jail or prison for that. The question is, “what is the challenge with making arrests?” I’m from San Francisco. I see this all the time. Right? So there’s a lot of public concern around it, and rightfully so, because the tools that law enforcement currently have are not being used. They’re being underutilized.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And how are things looking on the spending front for this one?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It is very uneven. I think about $9 million has been raised on the pro-Prop 36 side versus less than $200,000 for the opposition. Again, I think that this campaign is really just starting in earnest. Having someone like the governor on your side, on the no side, is a huge opportunity for what’s called earned media, right? You don’t have to go out and spend money if you’re the governor. You just talk and people put you on TV. But it does seem to me like the criminal justice reform advocates and the people on the no side, in some ways aren’t spending a lot of political capital and money to try to fight this, maybe because they feel like it’s kind of a foregone conclusion.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">All right. Such a fascinating topic. Thank you for breaking it all down for us, Marisa. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Thank you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Marisa Lagos is KQED’s politics correspondent and co-host of the podcast Political Breakdown.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Alrighty, here’s a semi-condensed review of all that….\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A vote yes on 36 means…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You want to increase sentences for certain drug and theft crimes. \u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You want to establish a new classification of crime, called a \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">treatment-mandated felony \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">that could be issued for certain drug offenses. These would give people charged with some drug felonies the option to get drug treatment instead, and have their record expunged.\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You want judges to be able to warn drug distributors that they could face murder charges if they are caught distributing drugs that lead to a death.\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A vote no would keep things they way they are now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And that’s a wrap on Prop Fest!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Pfew! It has been a journey, but thank you so much for coming along on the ride. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> If you found Prop Fest helpful, please share it with a friend, or give us some love on social media. We want to get the word out so everyone can listen before those ballots are due!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If you’re a new listener, welcome! We hope you’ll stick around. I’m Olivia Allen-Price, the host of Bay Curious, which is a weekly podcast that explores the hidden true stories of the San Francisco Bay Area.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay. We are local, Bay Area news to keep you rooted.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Subscribe to both shows to feel more connected to your Bay Area community, and in the know about what’s going on here!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Prop Fest is made with love by Alan Montecillo, Jessica Kariisa, Olivia Allen-Price, Amanda Font, Christopher Beale, Ana De Almeda Amaral, and me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We get extra support from Katie Sprenger, Jen Chien, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan …\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">…and the whole KQED family. Thank you so much for listening!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> We hope we’ve helped you to vote with confidence. Have a good one.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/12007880/transcript-proposition-36-would-increase-penalties-for-some-drug-and-theft-crimes","authors":["3239","102","11649","8654","11831","8637","11749"],"programs":["news_33523","news_28779"],"series":["news_17986"],"categories":["news_34167","news_8","news_13"],"tags":["news_28606","news_32839","news_33812","news_3611","news_22598"],"featImg":"news_12007882","label":"source_news_12007880"},"news_12007174":{"type":"posts","id":"news_12007174","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"12007174","score":null,"sort":[1727949609000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"transcript-should-proposition-35-make-a-tax-to-help-fund-medi-cal-permanent-and-limit-how-the-money-is-used","title":"Should Proposition 35 Make a Tax to Help Fund Medi-Cal Permanent and Limit How the Money Is Used?","publishDate":1727949609,"format":"audio","headTitle":"Should Proposition 35 Make a Tax to Help Fund Medi-Cal Permanent and Limit How the Money Is Used? | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Prop Fest\u003c/a> is a collaboration from Bay Curious and The Bay podcasts, where we break down each of the 10 statewide propositions that will be on your November 2024 ballot. Check out \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">KQED’s Voter Guide\u003c/a> for more information on state and local races.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Today, KQED Health Correspondent Lesley McClurg joins us to explain Prop. 35, which aims to improve Medi-Cal access by making an existing tax on health insurance companies permanent and restricting the allocation of funds to certain Medi-Cal providers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC3989968798&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a transcript of the episode.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>About 14 million Californians rely on Medi-Cal as their primary source of health insurance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Medi-Cal covers some of the state’s most vulnerable patients. Low-income people, seniors and people with disabilities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Despite it being a lifeline for so many people, some folks are worried that state funding for Medi-Cal isn’t stable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay and welcome to Prop Fest, a 10 part series where we break down all the statewide ballot measures you’ll be deciding on this November.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Today on Prop Fest, Prop 35 aims to guarantee state funding for Medi-Cal through this wonky tax that no one really pays much attention to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>But it could make the difference between some Medi-Cal providers getting money and others losing out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> We’ll get into all that and more right after this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[SPONSOR MESSAGE]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Today we’re digging into Prop 35. Here’s how it reads on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>VO:\u003c/b> Prop 35 makes permanent the existing tax on managed health care insurance plans, which, if approved by the federal government, provides revenues to pay for Medi-Cal health care services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We hit up KQED health correspondent Lesley McClurg to help us understand how this lifeline for so many Californians is currently funded and how Prop 35 could change that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prop 35 is about funding Medi-Cal, right? What is the backstory here? Exactly? How did this get on the ballot?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg : \u003c/strong>Medi-Cal is the insurance that the state offers to folks with a limited income or who are on disability. Unfortunately, the problem with Medi-Cal is that there aren’t enough providers willing to give those services or open up their doors to Medi-Cal patients because reimbursement rates for Medi-Cal patients are much lower than for private insurers. More and more people need Medi-Cal, so you want to increase what those providers are making so they have the incentives to do so.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So the California Hospital Association, the California Medical Association, these big groups, are arguing that we need to increase pay to providers to ensure that patients get that care. One way that they get paid or they get funding for Medi-Cal is through this very obscure policy called the managed care tax. This is basically a tax that the state can levy on managed care plans.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A managed care plan is like a Kaiser Permanente or an Anthem Blue Cross and when the state taxes these health care plans, they actually like it. Because the way this sort of works is that the state taxes the health care plans and then the federal government matches those dollars. Let’s say a plan covers 100 patients, a dollar a patient. When the state taxes them that dollar, the feds give the states $2. It doubles the amount of money that’s available for Medi-Cal patients. And this is one way that, since 2009, the state of California has been able to get more money and filter it towards Medi-Cal patients.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So what exactly would Prop 35 change?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>So right now, every few years, there’s what’s called an MCO tax. This managed care tax has been voted into place by the legislature. What would change under Prop 35 is that it would make this tax permanent. So we’re not giving over the possibility that it wouldn’t be voted into place. Right now it’s a little open about how those funds are going to get spent once they make it from the feds to the state. And Prop 35 narrows that window and make sure that certain groups, certain providers get those funds. So it makes it permanent and it directs the funding more specifically.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so let’s talk more about who is behind this. I mean, who is really pushing for Prop 35’s success?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>So the areas where the allocations will be increased would be primary care, specialty care, emergency services, family planning. These are all areas that would would get more direct funding from this tax. And so it’s not surprising then that the groups that represent these doctors are in favor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jodi Hicks: \u003c/strong>What we’re doing is ensuring that this fee is extended permanently and that it’s sustainable, permanent funding that providers can count on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> So Jodi Hicks is the president of Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California, and she has been a major supporter because family planning is a group that will benefit from this bill. And she says that this will increase access to her patients.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jodi Hicks: \u003c/b>What we want is a primary care provider in any part of the community to be incentivized to take all patients in that community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And what’s the argument for directing the funds through this tax specifically?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>No one is arguing that you should take away the MCO tax. In fact, the MCO tax is a necessary way to pull down money from the feds, or a good way for the state to pull down money from the Feds. What is important about Prop 35 is that it is going to make this tax permanent and it also, again, allocates these dollars in a very specific way, rather than giving it up to the legislature to decide how those funds are going to be spent. This has come to a head in our current environment because right now, for example, we’re in this situation where we have a huge budget deficit and there is fear that these dollars that are supposed to be spent on Medi-Cal funding will be used in some other way for different services. And so proponents want to ensure that these dollars coming from the feds go only to health care and go towards Medi-Cal funding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong> And that said, Lesley, not all providers are on board with Prop 35, right? Who are some of the opponents and what are their arguments against this ballot measure?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong> There are some definite groups that won’t benefit from Prop 35. Community health workers, community behavioral health workers, private duty nurses. And also, these funds would not go towards Medi-Cal patients who are under the age of five. So that makes certain groups not support the proposition, like the California Pan Ethnic Health Network, The Children’s Partnership, the California Alliance for Retired Americans, Courage California, the League of Women Voters. So these groups are worried about these specific groups that are are not going to benefit from Prop 35.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mayra Alvarez: \u003c/strong>The difference driving our opposition to Proposition 35 is the restriction imposed by the proposition on how the funds can be used.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong> Mayra Alvarez is the president of The Children’s Partnership, which is an advocacy organization to ensure that health care is available for all children. And her primary argument is that there are going to be some groups that don’t benefit and that we shouldn’t limit how the MCO tax or these funds, these billions of dollars are going to be distributed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mayra Alvarez: \u003c/b> The allocation of funding under Proposition 35 is decided by a group of selected provider organizations. So I don’t disagree about the specificity of making this permanent. What we are concerned with is what are the billions of dollars that will be lost as a result of locking in these rates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I guess, how do proponents respond to that argument that Prop 35 creates a sort of “winner” and “loser” situation?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>They argue that there is some flexibility in the way that it has been written. There’s not automatic funding going to those groups, but there is flexibility and in how the money will be spent and it could be allocated to those groups. So it’s not necessarily going to hurt them. They’re just not automatic recipients.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> So, Lesley, the California Democratic and Republican parties are both for Prop 35. But one person who is not a big supporter is Governor Gavin Newsom. What is his position on Prop 35?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>He has not taken an official position. In some press conferences, he has hinted that he may not support it. And his language has been that he does not want the legislature to be hamstrung or limited in the way that they spend the MCO tax.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prop 35 would limit the MCO taxed to just being used in health care. And in a year like right now, where we have this huge budget deficit that might hamstring other services like education, important services that may be needed. We might need to move these funds around to ensure that other services are not cut. There are some media organizations that have come out in favor of Prop 35 like the Sacramento Bee, but there’s also other media outlets like the Mercury News, the San Francisco Chronicle, the San Diego Union-Tribune. All of these media outlets have argued that this is a maze. This is a budgetary maze that should not be before voters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What do we know about campaign spending on both the yes and the no sides?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg : \u003c/strong>So there hasn’t been any spending so far on the no side. There’s been about almost $81 million raised on the pro side. So big, big funding is going into this right now to ensure that it passes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong> And I guess despite the fact that this is a pretty complicated proposition, do we have any sense yet, Lesley, of whether or not this thing will actually pass or how voters are feeling about it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Yeah, polling data right now is showing that it would most likely pass by about 63%. So currently right now, it’s looking pretty positive for the proposition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>All right, Lesley. Well, thank you so much for breaking this one down. I appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong> Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>In a nutshell, a vote yes on Prop 35 means an existing state tax on health plans that provides funding for certain health programs will become permanent, while also creating new rules around how that money can be spent. A vote no means these new rules would not go into effect and that this existing law on health plans would end in 2027 unless the legislature decides to keep it going.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>And that’s it for this edition of Prop Fest. You can find transcripts for this episode and past ones at \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">kqed.org/prop fest\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Prop Fest is a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. It’s made by Alan Montecillo, Jessica Kariisa, Olivia Allen-Price, Amanda Font, Christopher Beale, Ana De Almeida Amaral, and me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We get extra support from Katie Sprenger, Jen Chien, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan, and the whole KQED family\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong> Tomorrow, we’ll bring you the final episode of Prop Fest with Prop 36.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> You’ve already made it this far, so make sure you stick around for that one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Subscribe to The Bay and Bay Curious so you don’t miss out. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Today, KQED Health Correspondent Lesley McClurg joins us to explain Prop. 35.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1728068619,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":54,"wordCount":2110},"headData":{"title":"Should Proposition 35 Make a Tax to Help Fund Medi-Cal Permanent and Limit How the Money Is Used? | KQED","description":"Today, KQED Health Correspondent Lesley McClurg joins us to explain Prop. 35.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Should Proposition 35 Make a Tax to Help Fund Medi-Cal Permanent and Limit How the Money Is Used?","datePublished":"2024-10-03T03:00:09-07:00","dateModified":"2024-10-04T12:03:39-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"Prop Fest 2024","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC3989968798.mp3?updated=1727726812","sticky":false,"nprStoryId":"kqed-12007174","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/12007174/transcript-should-proposition-35-make-a-tax-to-help-fund-medi-cal-permanent-and-limit-how-the-money-is-used","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Prop Fest\u003c/a> is a collaboration from Bay Curious and The Bay podcasts, where we break down each of the 10 statewide propositions that will be on your November 2024 ballot. Check out \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">KQED’s Voter Guide\u003c/a> for more information on state and local races.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Today, KQED Health Correspondent Lesley McClurg joins us to explain Prop. 35, which aims to improve Medi-Cal access by making an existing tax on health insurance companies permanent and restricting the allocation of funds to certain Medi-Cal providers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC3989968798&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a transcript of the episode.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>About 14 million Californians rely on Medi-Cal as their primary source of health insurance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Medi-Cal covers some of the state’s most vulnerable patients. Low-income people, seniors and people with disabilities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Despite it being a lifeline for so many people, some folks are worried that state funding for Medi-Cal isn’t stable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay and welcome to Prop Fest, a 10 part series where we break down all the statewide ballot measures you’ll be deciding on this November.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Today on Prop Fest, Prop 35 aims to guarantee state funding for Medi-Cal through this wonky tax that no one really pays much attention to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>But it could make the difference between some Medi-Cal providers getting money and others losing out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> We’ll get into all that and more right after this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[SPONSOR MESSAGE]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Today we’re digging into Prop 35. Here’s how it reads on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>VO:\u003c/b> Prop 35 makes permanent the existing tax on managed health care insurance plans, which, if approved by the federal government, provides revenues to pay for Medi-Cal health care services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We hit up KQED health correspondent Lesley McClurg to help us understand how this lifeline for so many Californians is currently funded and how Prop 35 could change that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prop 35 is about funding Medi-Cal, right? What is the backstory here? Exactly? How did this get on the ballot?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg : \u003c/strong>Medi-Cal is the insurance that the state offers to folks with a limited income or who are on disability. Unfortunately, the problem with Medi-Cal is that there aren’t enough providers willing to give those services or open up their doors to Medi-Cal patients because reimbursement rates for Medi-Cal patients are much lower than for private insurers. More and more people need Medi-Cal, so you want to increase what those providers are making so they have the incentives to do so.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So the California Hospital Association, the California Medical Association, these big groups, are arguing that we need to increase pay to providers to ensure that patients get that care. One way that they get paid or they get funding for Medi-Cal is through this very obscure policy called the managed care tax. This is basically a tax that the state can levy on managed care plans.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A managed care plan is like a Kaiser Permanente or an Anthem Blue Cross and when the state taxes these health care plans, they actually like it. Because the way this sort of works is that the state taxes the health care plans and then the federal government matches those dollars. Let’s say a plan covers 100 patients, a dollar a patient. When the state taxes them that dollar, the feds give the states $2. It doubles the amount of money that’s available for Medi-Cal patients. And this is one way that, since 2009, the state of California has been able to get more money and filter it towards Medi-Cal patients.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So what exactly would Prop 35 change?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>So right now, every few years, there’s what’s called an MCO tax. This managed care tax has been voted into place by the legislature. What would change under Prop 35 is that it would make this tax permanent. So we’re not giving over the possibility that it wouldn’t be voted into place. Right now it’s a little open about how those funds are going to get spent once they make it from the feds to the state. And Prop 35 narrows that window and make sure that certain groups, certain providers get those funds. So it makes it permanent and it directs the funding more specifically.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so let’s talk more about who is behind this. I mean, who is really pushing for Prop 35’s success?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>So the areas where the allocations will be increased would be primary care, specialty care, emergency services, family planning. These are all areas that would would get more direct funding from this tax. And so it’s not surprising then that the groups that represent these doctors are in favor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jodi Hicks: \u003c/strong>What we’re doing is ensuring that this fee is extended permanently and that it’s sustainable, permanent funding that providers can count on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> So Jodi Hicks is the president of Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California, and she has been a major supporter because family planning is a group that will benefit from this bill. And she says that this will increase access to her patients.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jodi Hicks: \u003c/b>What we want is a primary care provider in any part of the community to be incentivized to take all patients in that community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And what’s the argument for directing the funds through this tax specifically?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>No one is arguing that you should take away the MCO tax. In fact, the MCO tax is a necessary way to pull down money from the feds, or a good way for the state to pull down money from the Feds. What is important about Prop 35 is that it is going to make this tax permanent and it also, again, allocates these dollars in a very specific way, rather than giving it up to the legislature to decide how those funds are going to be spent. This has come to a head in our current environment because right now, for example, we’re in this situation where we have a huge budget deficit and there is fear that these dollars that are supposed to be spent on Medi-Cal funding will be used in some other way for different services. And so proponents want to ensure that these dollars coming from the feds go only to health care and go towards Medi-Cal funding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong> And that said, Lesley, not all providers are on board with Prop 35, right? Who are some of the opponents and what are their arguments against this ballot measure?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong> There are some definite groups that won’t benefit from Prop 35. Community health workers, community behavioral health workers, private duty nurses. And also, these funds would not go towards Medi-Cal patients who are under the age of five. So that makes certain groups not support the proposition, like the California Pan Ethnic Health Network, The Children’s Partnership, the California Alliance for Retired Americans, Courage California, the League of Women Voters. So these groups are worried about these specific groups that are are not going to benefit from Prop 35.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mayra Alvarez: \u003c/strong>The difference driving our opposition to Proposition 35 is the restriction imposed by the proposition on how the funds can be used.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong> Mayra Alvarez is the president of The Children’s Partnership, which is an advocacy organization to ensure that health care is available for all children. And her primary argument is that there are going to be some groups that don’t benefit and that we shouldn’t limit how the MCO tax or these funds, these billions of dollars are going to be distributed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mayra Alvarez: \u003c/b> The allocation of funding under Proposition 35 is decided by a group of selected provider organizations. So I don’t disagree about the specificity of making this permanent. What we are concerned with is what are the billions of dollars that will be lost as a result of locking in these rates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I guess, how do proponents respond to that argument that Prop 35 creates a sort of “winner” and “loser” situation?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>They argue that there is some flexibility in the way that it has been written. There’s not automatic funding going to those groups, but there is flexibility and in how the money will be spent and it could be allocated to those groups. So it’s not necessarily going to hurt them. They’re just not automatic recipients.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> So, Lesley, the California Democratic and Republican parties are both for Prop 35. But one person who is not a big supporter is Governor Gavin Newsom. What is his position on Prop 35?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>He has not taken an official position. In some press conferences, he has hinted that he may not support it. And his language has been that he does not want the legislature to be hamstrung or limited in the way that they spend the MCO tax.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prop 35 would limit the MCO taxed to just being used in health care. And in a year like right now, where we have this huge budget deficit that might hamstring other services like education, important services that may be needed. We might need to move these funds around to ensure that other services are not cut. There are some media organizations that have come out in favor of Prop 35 like the Sacramento Bee, but there’s also other media outlets like the Mercury News, the San Francisco Chronicle, the San Diego Union-Tribune. All of these media outlets have argued that this is a maze. This is a budgetary maze that should not be before voters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What do we know about campaign spending on both the yes and the no sides?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg : \u003c/strong>So there hasn’t been any spending so far on the no side. There’s been about almost $81 million raised on the pro side. So big, big funding is going into this right now to ensure that it passes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong> And I guess despite the fact that this is a pretty complicated proposition, do we have any sense yet, Lesley, of whether or not this thing will actually pass or how voters are feeling about it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Yeah, polling data right now is showing that it would most likely pass by about 63%. So currently right now, it’s looking pretty positive for the proposition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>All right, Lesley. Well, thank you so much for breaking this one down. I appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong> Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>In a nutshell, a vote yes on Prop 35 means an existing state tax on health plans that provides funding for certain health programs will become permanent, while also creating new rules around how that money can be spent. A vote no means these new rules would not go into effect and that this existing law on health plans would end in 2027 unless the legislature decides to keep it going.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>And that’s it for this edition of Prop Fest. You can find transcripts for this episode and past ones at \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">kqed.org/prop fest\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Prop Fest is a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. It’s made by Alan Montecillo, Jessica Kariisa, Olivia Allen-Price, Amanda Font, Christopher Beale, Ana De Almeida Amaral, and me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We get extra support from Katie Sprenger, Jen Chien, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan, and the whole KQED family\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong> Tomorrow, we’ll bring you the final episode of Prop Fest with Prop 36.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> You’ve already made it this far, so make sure you stick around for that one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Subscribe to The Bay and Bay Curious so you don’t miss out. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/12007174/transcript-should-proposition-35-make-a-tax-to-help-fund-medi-cal-permanent-and-limit-how-the-money-is-used","authors":["8654","11229","11649","102","11831","11749","8637"],"programs":["news_33523","news_28779"],"series":["news_17986"],"categories":["news_457","news_8","news_13"],"tags":["news_28606","news_32839","news_33812","news_34592","news_22598"],"featImg":"news_11753593","label":"source_news_12007174"},"news_12007359":{"type":"posts","id":"news_12007359","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"12007359","score":null,"sort":[1727863242000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"transcript-proposition-34-limits-how-prescription-drug-revenue-can-be-spent-by-certain-providers","title":"Transcript: Proposition 34 Limits How Prescription Drug Revenue Can Be Spent By Certain Providers","publishDate":1727863242,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Transcript: Proposition 34 Limits How Prescription Drug Revenue Can Be Spent By Certain Providers | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>\u003cem>Aaron Schrank and Ana De Almeida Amaral contributed to this episode.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Prop Fest\u003c/a> is a collaboration from Bay Curious and The Bay podcasts, where we break down each of the 10 statewide propositions that will be on your November 2024 ballot. Check out \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">KQED’s Voter Guide\u003c/a> for more information on state and local races.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Today, we take a closer look at Prop 34, which takes aim at how revenues earned through a federal drug pricing program are spent by a very specific number of providers. On the surface it seems like a healthcare prop, but underneath it all is a proxy war over rent control. Reporter \u003ca href=\"https://www.kcrw.com/people/aaron-schrank\">Aaron Schrank\u003c/a>, who has been covering Prop 34 for NPR member station \u003ca href=\"https://www.kcrw.com/\">KCRW\u003c/a> in Los Angeles, helps us understand what’s at stake.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC5380710933&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a transcript of the episode.\u003c/em>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Quite often there’s a prop or two on California’s ballot that seems like it’s about one thing, but it’s mostly about something else.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Meet Proposition 34. The \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">healthcare\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> prop that’s drawing big spending from \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">landlord\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> groups. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Behind it all is a proxy war over rent control, and likely how one organization is spending money made through a federal drug pricing program.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Host of The Bay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I’m Olivia Allen-Price, Host of Bay Curious. This is Prop Fest, our 10 part series that goes in deep on the propositions you’ll be voting on this November. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> All so you can vote smart. Today we’re getting into the weeds on what is going on in Proposition 34 – about prescription drug spending.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> But also about rent control. We’ll explain why, right after this.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[SPONSOR MESSAGE]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Proposition 34 is one of the trickier measures California voters must consider this year. Here’s about how it will read on your ballot…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>VO: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Proposition 34 is a statute that restricts spending of prescription drug revenues by certain health care providers. It also authorizes statewide negotiation of Medi-Cal drug prices. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Joining me today is Reporter Aaron Schrank, who has been covering Prop 34 for NPR member station KCRW in Los Angeles. Welcome Aaron.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Shrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Happy to be here!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Before we get too far into the weeds on this one, broadly, what is Prop 34 aiming to do?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Well it is hard to avoid weeds on this particular proposition but broadly, Prop 34 would place new restrictions on how certain\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">healthcare providers can use the revenue they earn through a federal drug discount program. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But more to the point: the measure is aiming to limit the political spending of one particular health care provider called the AIDS Healthcare Foundation. That foundation (as listeners of the previous Propfest episode may recall) is the primary backer of another measure on this year’s ballot which would expand rent control in California.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There’s also another minor provision in Prop 34 that would permanently authorize a program called Medi-Cal Rx, which is already in place, and allows California to negotiate Medi-Cal drug prices on a statewide basis.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">At the heart of this is how funding is used that comes from a specific federal program. It’s called the 340B Drug Pricing Program. Can you explain what that is and how it works?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yes. 340B is a piece of federal legislation passed in the early 90s requiring pharmaceutical drug manufacturers to give significant discounts on the price of drugs to health care providers that focus on serving low-income and at-risk patients. Those discounts can be between 25 percent and about 50 percent off the retail price of the drugs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Then, if the health providers give the drugs to a patient who has insurance, those providers can bill the insurance company for reimbursement based on the full cost of the drug. This, in turn, creates a stream of revenue for these social safety net health providers, allowing them to basically make money which they can use to further their operations. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Now, the intention of 340B was to help these providers stretch their resources in order to serve more patients and to provide more comprehensive services to disadvantaged communities. We’re talking about things like offering free care for uninsured patients or offering free vaccines. However, Congress didn’t actually specify any of that in the law, so there is currently no legal requirement for how this 340B revenue must be used.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And what are the proponents of Prop 34 looking to change about that?\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Well, they’re looking to establish a legal requirement for how that revenue can be used within the state of California –– or at least how some providers can use it. If approved, Prop 34 would require certain providers to spend 98 percent of those 340B revenues on “direct patient care.” \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Here’s Yes on 34 spokesperson Nathan Click:\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nathan Click: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We need real transparency on 340b dollars. And we need real guardrails on this program. Fundamentally our entire message is that uh, dollars meant for patients, should be spent on patients.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The measure’s definition of “direct patient care” includes medical, dental, pharmaceutical or behavioral health services directly administered to individual patients. It also specifies that they must be health care services that are regularly provided by other health providers in the community. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Prop 34 also establishes penalties. A provider that doesn’t comply with that 98 percent rule would have their healthcare license and tax exempt status permanently revoked. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But it’s not \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">all \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">health care providers who would have to meet these new requirements, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> That’s right, and that’s where this takes a bit of a turn. The law would only apply to 340B providers who meet some very specific conditions. First, they must have spent at least $100 million over a decade on purposes that do not qualify as direct patient care. Next, they must own –– or have previously owned –– one or more apartment buildings. And finally, the apartment buildings they own have to have been collectively cited for at least 500 health and safety violations.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So that narrows things down a bit. Now, I should say the backers of this proposal do claim to believe that their measure would apply to more than one health care provider, but there’s really only one entity that we can be fairly certain would be impacted by the passage of Prop 34, and that is the AIDS Healthcare Foundation. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003cb>\u003cbr>\nOlivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b> Okay, so what is the AIDS Healthcare Foundation and why are they seemingly being singled out with this Proposition?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> The AIDS Healthcare Foundation, or AHF, is the largest AIDS organization in the world. It was founded in Los Angeles in 1987, initially to provide hospice care to people dying of AIDS. As treatments and life expectancy for AIDS patients improved, AHF began opening clinics and then expanded nationally and internationally over the years. Today, they serve 2 million patients across 17 states and 47 countries.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The organization has more recently also gotten into housing. Back in 2017, they launched the Healthy Housing Foundation, which purchases and renovates existing buildings, primarily here in Los Angeles, where it has about 1,400 apartment units. CEO Michael Weinstein told me he sees housing as an extension of the organization’s existing mission.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Weinstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Our mission is both medicine and advocacy. And under medicine, we consider housing to be a component of that.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> He says that housing is the number one determinant of health, and that being unhoused is a huge health risk. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It’s worth mentioning that AHF has an annual budget of about 2.5 billion dollars. The vast majority of their revenue comes from their network of 62 pharmacies, which is largely a result of its participation in that 340B program. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Now, as to why they seem to be in the cross-hairs of this ballot measure. The backers of Prop 34 don’t like how AHF uses that revenue, particularly when the organization spends money on political activity. Between 2015 and 2020, AHF spent more than $110 million on ballot measure campaigns in California, including two previous attempts to expand rent control. The California Apartment Association, which is a lobbying group that represents apartment landlords, spent many millions to help defeat those two previous rent control measures. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And, again, this year, the AHF is the main sponsor of another rent control proposition – Prop 33. And the same landlord lobbying groups that have spent millions campaigning against AHF’s rent control measures are the ones sponsoring Proposition 34. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> So, is Prop 34 really about housing, and not that much about health care at all?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Well, if you look at who is spending money to convince voters to approve this measure, it’s clear that this does have a lot to do with housing, and with the politics of housing and rent control specifically. The measure’s impact on health care is mostly limited to the question of how this one healthcare provider can spend its money. And backers of the proposition would argue that AIDS Healthcare Foundation’s spending on things like apartment buildings and rent control campaigns comes at the expense of patient care.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Now, the AIDS Healthcare Foundation has positioned themselves as a pro-tenant group, and a group trying to help people experiencing homelessness, but to further complicate things, they’ve been criticized for the conditions in some of their low-incoming housing facilities. Can you elaborate on that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Sure, as I mentioned, AHF has purchased several old hotels and small apartment complexes, mostly in the Skid Row area of downtown Los Angeles. There have been lots of complaints and reports of squalid conditions at those sites. The Los Angeles Times reported that the rate of code enforcement and public health complaints at AHF buildings is three times higher than those at other Skid Row nonprofits. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">AHF has also been criticized for evicting\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">tenants for unpaid rent, while simultaneously publicly advocating against evictions. Many tenants have filed lawsuits against the organization, citing substandard living conditions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So, despite the controversy and criticism, CEO Michael Weinstein defends the organization’s approach to housing. He says many of the buildings AHF has purchased are a century-old and that previous owners are in some cases partly liable for their condition. He says his organization has spent millions on renovations, and he stresses that his tenants have some of the cheapest rents available in the city. The tenants I’ve spoken with were paying between $400 and $650 a month. Which is obviously well below the market average. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But that certainly all contributes to the controversy around AIDS Healthcare Foundation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Hm, if Prop 34 passes, what will happen to the AIDS Healthcare Foundation, if they don’t meet the spending requirements?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I’ll note that it’s unclear exactly how much AHF spends on direct patient care right now, but it’s safe to say that it is certainly under that 98 percent threshold. So, if Prop 34 passes, it would likely mean that AHF would have to stop operating as a healthcare provider in California.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I asked CEO Michael Weinstein what would happen to his organization if voters approve Prop 34…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Weinstein:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> That’s 16, 000 patients that we serve across California who would have to look for another provider and retaining people with HIV in care is extremely important both in terms of breaking the chain of infection, but also for their health. There’s tens of thousands of more patients who go to our STD services, our free STD services. Yeah, so I mean, it would be very deleterious, and it would put an extra burden on the county and state who have to care for those patients.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It’s also worth mentioning that, if voters do approve Prop 34, the AIDS Healthcare Foundation will still have some legal recourse to challenge the law. The organization believes that the measure is unconstitutional, based on the Constitution’s Bill of Attainder Clauses, which prohibit state legislatures from passing targeted statutes imposing punishment on specific actors without trial. So, if passed, this is almost certain to end up before a judge. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This prop also has implications for Medi-Cal drug prices. Can you walk us through that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb> Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sure, so Medi-Cal is the state’s Medicaid program; it’s a public insurance program that provides coverage to low-income Californians, including coverage for prescription drugs.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In 2019, Governor Gavin Newsom signed an executive order to save the state money on prescription drug purchases made through Medi-Cal. It did this basically by authorizing state agencies to negotiate with drug manufacturers together as a single entity for lower prices — and by requiring Medi-Cal to pay pharmacies directly for prescription drugs. This is known as the Medi-Cal Rx program. If passed, Prop 34 would enshrine that program into permanent law.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The campaign for Prop. 34 has been running a barrage of ads claiming that this particular provision would “drastically cut the costs of prescription drugs for Medi-Cal patients.” While that certainly sounds good, that claim is misleading, because again this is already happening and the measure is not proposing anything new in this regard, just more of an administrative update to keep it going. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I asked Yes on 34 spokesperson Nathan Click about this…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nathan Click: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The next governor, whoever that might be, could take this executive order off the books. The next governor will be able to do that with a stroke of a pen. It’s not in statute. It’s only by executive order. This would codify that executive order and make those important savings permanent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> If this prop fails, what would happen to Medi-cal Rx?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Nothing. Newsom’s executive order is in place. But as Click points out, it would remain open to potentially being undone by a future governor. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Who’s supporting prop 34 and why? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> The primary supporter and financial backer of Proposition 34 is the California Apartment Association, which is a lobbying group that represents corporate rental property landlords. The top donors to the campaign for prop 34 are Equity Residential, which is the fifth largest owner of apartments in the country, and Essex Property Trust, which is the 11th largest. The Yes on 34 campaign has also been endorsed by the Republican Party of California, the ALS Association, the San Francisco Women’s Cancer Network, as well State Assemblyman Evan Low, a Democrat who represents Silicon Valley. These supporters all have issues with how the AIDS Healthcare Foundation has been operating, in one domain or another. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Alright, and I can probably guess but, who opposes Prop 34 and why?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The main opposition to Prop 34, unsurprisingly, is the AIDS Healthcare Foundation. They are saying they are being targeted and that the landlord lobby is using the guise of representing patients when this is really about stifling the movement for rent control. Here’s AIDS Healthcare Foundation CEO Michael Weinstein:\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Michael Weinstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What you’ve seen this year that you’ve never seen before is, um, a moneyed interest putting an initiative on the ballot with the specific purpose of silencing and exacting revenge against their opponent. And that’s what 34 is. It seeks revenge. I mean, pure and simple. It does not pass the laugh test that the California Apartment Association is so concerned about patient care and access. I don’t know of any time they’ve ever taken any interest in that before.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Other groups opposing Prop 34 include Consumer Watchdog, the National Organization for Women, the Dolores Huerta Foundation and the League of Women Voters. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It sounds like there are, king of, a few ways voters could approach voting on Prop 34.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. There’s a lot to consider. If you have strong feelings one way or the other about the AIDS Healthcare Foundation’s rent control measure, Prop 33, you might also vote for or against 34 based on that. Or you might vote depending on how you think that 340B money should be spent. But there is also a question of: Do you think propositions should be used in this way? Essentially weaponized in disputes between various interest groups. We’ve seen a lot of this before when labor unions and companies are hashing things out, most recently on the ballot with dialysis clinics. I think some voters will be overwhelmed and frustrated being dragged into this one, and will vote accordingly.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What does funding look like on this prop?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">As of late last month, the California Apartment Association and its supporters had spent $30 million in support of Proposition 34. Meanwhile, the AIDS Healthcare Foundation had spent just over $1 million fighting it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Lot’s to consider on this one. Reporter Aaron Shrank, thank you so much for walking us through it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Thank you so much, Olivia.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In review, a vote yes on prop 34 would limit how a small number of healthcare providers – potentially only one, the AIDS Healthcare Foundation – can spend their revenues from the 340B Drug Price Discount Program. It would also permanently authorize Medi-cal Rx. A vote no means these new rules would not go into effect.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> We really hope you’ve been getting what you need out of Prop Fest so far. You can find transcripts for this episode, and past ones at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/propfest\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">KQED.org/propfest\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If you value the work we’re doing here, please consider donating to KQED to support it! We’re a public media station that runs on listener donations to survive, and every contribution makes a difference. Learn more at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/donate\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">KQED.org/donate\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Prop Fest is a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. It’s made by Alan Montecillo, Jessica Kariisa, Olivia Allen-Price, Amanda Font, Christopher Beale, Ana De Almeida Amaral, and me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We get extra support from Katie Sprenger, Jen Chien, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan, and the whole KQED family\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Tomorrow we will get into Prop 35, which could change how we fund Medical – a lifeline for low income, disabled Californians. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Be sure you’re subscribed to The Bay and Bay Curious so you don’t miss out. We’ll see ya tomorrow.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"On the surface, Proposition 34 seems like a healthcare prop, but underneath it all is a proxy war over rent control.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1727888124,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":60,"wordCount":3272},"headData":{"title":"Transcript: Proposition 34 Limits How Prescription Drug Revenue Can Be Spent By Certain Providers | KQED","description":"On the surface, Proposition 34 seems like a healthcare prop, but underneath it all is a proxy war over rent control.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Transcript: Proposition 34 Limits How Prescription Drug Revenue Can Be Spent By Certain Providers","datePublished":"2024-10-02T03:00:42-07:00","dateModified":"2024-10-02T09:55:24-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"Prop Fest","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/propfest","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC5380710933.mp3?updated=1727829021","sticky":false,"nprStoryId":"kqed-12007359","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/12007359/transcript-proposition-34-limits-how-prescription-drug-revenue-can-be-spent-by-certain-providers","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>Aaron Schrank and Ana De Almeida Amaral contributed to this episode.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Prop Fest\u003c/a> is a collaboration from Bay Curious and The Bay podcasts, where we break down each of the 10 statewide propositions that will be on your November 2024 ballot. Check out \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">KQED’s Voter Guide\u003c/a> for more information on state and local races.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Today, we take a closer look at Prop 34, which takes aim at how revenues earned through a federal drug pricing program are spent by a very specific number of providers. On the surface it seems like a healthcare prop, but underneath it all is a proxy war over rent control. Reporter \u003ca href=\"https://www.kcrw.com/people/aaron-schrank\">Aaron Schrank\u003c/a>, who has been covering Prop 34 for NPR member station \u003ca href=\"https://www.kcrw.com/\">KCRW\u003c/a> in Los Angeles, helps us understand what’s at stake.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC5380710933&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a transcript of the episode.\u003c/em>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Quite often there’s a prop or two on California’s ballot that seems like it’s about one thing, but it’s mostly about something else.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Meet Proposition 34. The \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">healthcare\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> prop that’s drawing big spending from \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">landlord\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> groups. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Behind it all is a proxy war over rent control, and likely how one organization is spending money made through a federal drug pricing program.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Host of The Bay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I’m Olivia Allen-Price, Host of Bay Curious. This is Prop Fest, our 10 part series that goes in deep on the propositions you’ll be voting on this November. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> All so you can vote smart. Today we’re getting into the weeds on what is going on in Proposition 34 – about prescription drug spending.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> But also about rent control. We’ll explain why, right after this.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[SPONSOR MESSAGE]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Proposition 34 is one of the trickier measures California voters must consider this year. Here’s about how it will read on your ballot…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>VO: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Proposition 34 is a statute that restricts spending of prescription drug revenues by certain health care providers. It also authorizes statewide negotiation of Medi-Cal drug prices. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Joining me today is Reporter Aaron Schrank, who has been covering Prop 34 for NPR member station KCRW in Los Angeles. Welcome Aaron.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Shrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Happy to be here!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Before we get too far into the weeds on this one, broadly, what is Prop 34 aiming to do?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Well it is hard to avoid weeds on this particular proposition but broadly, Prop 34 would place new restrictions on how certain\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">healthcare providers can use the revenue they earn through a federal drug discount program. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But more to the point: the measure is aiming to limit the political spending of one particular health care provider called the AIDS Healthcare Foundation. That foundation (as listeners of the previous Propfest episode may recall) is the primary backer of another measure on this year’s ballot which would expand rent control in California.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There’s also another minor provision in Prop 34 that would permanently authorize a program called Medi-Cal Rx, which is already in place, and allows California to negotiate Medi-Cal drug prices on a statewide basis.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">At the heart of this is how funding is used that comes from a specific federal program. It’s called the 340B Drug Pricing Program. Can you explain what that is and how it works?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yes. 340B is a piece of federal legislation passed in the early 90s requiring pharmaceutical drug manufacturers to give significant discounts on the price of drugs to health care providers that focus on serving low-income and at-risk patients. Those discounts can be between 25 percent and about 50 percent off the retail price of the drugs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Then, if the health providers give the drugs to a patient who has insurance, those providers can bill the insurance company for reimbursement based on the full cost of the drug. This, in turn, creates a stream of revenue for these social safety net health providers, allowing them to basically make money which they can use to further their operations. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Now, the intention of 340B was to help these providers stretch their resources in order to serve more patients and to provide more comprehensive services to disadvantaged communities. We’re talking about things like offering free care for uninsured patients or offering free vaccines. However, Congress didn’t actually specify any of that in the law, so there is currently no legal requirement for how this 340B revenue must be used.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And what are the proponents of Prop 34 looking to change about that?\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Well, they’re looking to establish a legal requirement for how that revenue can be used within the state of California –– or at least how some providers can use it. If approved, Prop 34 would require certain providers to spend 98 percent of those 340B revenues on “direct patient care.” \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Here’s Yes on 34 spokesperson Nathan Click:\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nathan Click: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We need real transparency on 340b dollars. And we need real guardrails on this program. Fundamentally our entire message is that uh, dollars meant for patients, should be spent on patients.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The measure’s definition of “direct patient care” includes medical, dental, pharmaceutical or behavioral health services directly administered to individual patients. It also specifies that they must be health care services that are regularly provided by other health providers in the community. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Prop 34 also establishes penalties. A provider that doesn’t comply with that 98 percent rule would have their healthcare license and tax exempt status permanently revoked. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But it’s not \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">all \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">health care providers who would have to meet these new requirements, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> That’s right, and that’s where this takes a bit of a turn. The law would only apply to 340B providers who meet some very specific conditions. First, they must have spent at least $100 million over a decade on purposes that do not qualify as direct patient care. Next, they must own –– or have previously owned –– one or more apartment buildings. And finally, the apartment buildings they own have to have been collectively cited for at least 500 health and safety violations.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So that narrows things down a bit. Now, I should say the backers of this proposal do claim to believe that their measure would apply to more than one health care provider, but there’s really only one entity that we can be fairly certain would be impacted by the passage of Prop 34, and that is the AIDS Healthcare Foundation. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003cb>\u003cbr>\nOlivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b> Okay, so what is the AIDS Healthcare Foundation and why are they seemingly being singled out with this Proposition?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> The AIDS Healthcare Foundation, or AHF, is the largest AIDS organization in the world. It was founded in Los Angeles in 1987, initially to provide hospice care to people dying of AIDS. As treatments and life expectancy for AIDS patients improved, AHF began opening clinics and then expanded nationally and internationally over the years. Today, they serve 2 million patients across 17 states and 47 countries.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The organization has more recently also gotten into housing. Back in 2017, they launched the Healthy Housing Foundation, which purchases and renovates existing buildings, primarily here in Los Angeles, where it has about 1,400 apartment units. CEO Michael Weinstein told me he sees housing as an extension of the organization’s existing mission.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Weinstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Our mission is both medicine and advocacy. And under medicine, we consider housing to be a component of that.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> He says that housing is the number one determinant of health, and that being unhoused is a huge health risk. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It’s worth mentioning that AHF has an annual budget of about 2.5 billion dollars. The vast majority of their revenue comes from their network of 62 pharmacies, which is largely a result of its participation in that 340B program. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Now, as to why they seem to be in the cross-hairs of this ballot measure. The backers of Prop 34 don’t like how AHF uses that revenue, particularly when the organization spends money on political activity. Between 2015 and 2020, AHF spent more than $110 million on ballot measure campaigns in California, including two previous attempts to expand rent control. The California Apartment Association, which is a lobbying group that represents apartment landlords, spent many millions to help defeat those two previous rent control measures. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And, again, this year, the AHF is the main sponsor of another rent control proposition – Prop 33. And the same landlord lobbying groups that have spent millions campaigning against AHF’s rent control measures are the ones sponsoring Proposition 34. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> So, is Prop 34 really about housing, and not that much about health care at all?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Well, if you look at who is spending money to convince voters to approve this measure, it’s clear that this does have a lot to do with housing, and with the politics of housing and rent control specifically. The measure’s impact on health care is mostly limited to the question of how this one healthcare provider can spend its money. And backers of the proposition would argue that AIDS Healthcare Foundation’s spending on things like apartment buildings and rent control campaigns comes at the expense of patient care.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Now, the AIDS Healthcare Foundation has positioned themselves as a pro-tenant group, and a group trying to help people experiencing homelessness, but to further complicate things, they’ve been criticized for the conditions in some of their low-incoming housing facilities. Can you elaborate on that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Sure, as I mentioned, AHF has purchased several old hotels and small apartment complexes, mostly in the Skid Row area of downtown Los Angeles. There have been lots of complaints and reports of squalid conditions at those sites. The Los Angeles Times reported that the rate of code enforcement and public health complaints at AHF buildings is three times higher than those at other Skid Row nonprofits. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">AHF has also been criticized for evicting\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">tenants for unpaid rent, while simultaneously publicly advocating against evictions. Many tenants have filed lawsuits against the organization, citing substandard living conditions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So, despite the controversy and criticism, CEO Michael Weinstein defends the organization’s approach to housing. He says many of the buildings AHF has purchased are a century-old and that previous owners are in some cases partly liable for their condition. He says his organization has spent millions on renovations, and he stresses that his tenants have some of the cheapest rents available in the city. The tenants I’ve spoken with were paying between $400 and $650 a month. Which is obviously well below the market average. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But that certainly all contributes to the controversy around AIDS Healthcare Foundation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Hm, if Prop 34 passes, what will happen to the AIDS Healthcare Foundation, if they don’t meet the spending requirements?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I’ll note that it’s unclear exactly how much AHF spends on direct patient care right now, but it’s safe to say that it is certainly under that 98 percent threshold. So, if Prop 34 passes, it would likely mean that AHF would have to stop operating as a healthcare provider in California.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I asked CEO Michael Weinstein what would happen to his organization if voters approve Prop 34…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Weinstein:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> That’s 16, 000 patients that we serve across California who would have to look for another provider and retaining people with HIV in care is extremely important both in terms of breaking the chain of infection, but also for their health. There’s tens of thousands of more patients who go to our STD services, our free STD services. Yeah, so I mean, it would be very deleterious, and it would put an extra burden on the county and state who have to care for those patients.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It’s also worth mentioning that, if voters do approve Prop 34, the AIDS Healthcare Foundation will still have some legal recourse to challenge the law. The organization believes that the measure is unconstitutional, based on the Constitution’s Bill of Attainder Clauses, which prohibit state legislatures from passing targeted statutes imposing punishment on specific actors without trial. So, if passed, this is almost certain to end up before a judge. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This prop also has implications for Medi-Cal drug prices. Can you walk us through that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb> Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sure, so Medi-Cal is the state’s Medicaid program; it’s a public insurance program that provides coverage to low-income Californians, including coverage for prescription drugs.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In 2019, Governor Gavin Newsom signed an executive order to save the state money on prescription drug purchases made through Medi-Cal. It did this basically by authorizing state agencies to negotiate with drug manufacturers together as a single entity for lower prices — and by requiring Medi-Cal to pay pharmacies directly for prescription drugs. This is known as the Medi-Cal Rx program. If passed, Prop 34 would enshrine that program into permanent law.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The campaign for Prop. 34 has been running a barrage of ads claiming that this particular provision would “drastically cut the costs of prescription drugs for Medi-Cal patients.” While that certainly sounds good, that claim is misleading, because again this is already happening and the measure is not proposing anything new in this regard, just more of an administrative update to keep it going. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I asked Yes on 34 spokesperson Nathan Click about this…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nathan Click: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The next governor, whoever that might be, could take this executive order off the books. The next governor will be able to do that with a stroke of a pen. It’s not in statute. It’s only by executive order. This would codify that executive order and make those important savings permanent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> If this prop fails, what would happen to Medi-cal Rx?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Nothing. Newsom’s executive order is in place. But as Click points out, it would remain open to potentially being undone by a future governor. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Who’s supporting prop 34 and why? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> The primary supporter and financial backer of Proposition 34 is the California Apartment Association, which is a lobbying group that represents corporate rental property landlords. The top donors to the campaign for prop 34 are Equity Residential, which is the fifth largest owner of apartments in the country, and Essex Property Trust, which is the 11th largest. The Yes on 34 campaign has also been endorsed by the Republican Party of California, the ALS Association, the San Francisco Women’s Cancer Network, as well State Assemblyman Evan Low, a Democrat who represents Silicon Valley. These supporters all have issues with how the AIDS Healthcare Foundation has been operating, in one domain or another. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Alright, and I can probably guess but, who opposes Prop 34 and why?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The main opposition to Prop 34, unsurprisingly, is the AIDS Healthcare Foundation. They are saying they are being targeted and that the landlord lobby is using the guise of representing patients when this is really about stifling the movement for rent control. Here’s AIDS Healthcare Foundation CEO Michael Weinstein:\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Michael Weinstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What you’ve seen this year that you’ve never seen before is, um, a moneyed interest putting an initiative on the ballot with the specific purpose of silencing and exacting revenge against their opponent. And that’s what 34 is. It seeks revenge. I mean, pure and simple. It does not pass the laugh test that the California Apartment Association is so concerned about patient care and access. I don’t know of any time they’ve ever taken any interest in that before.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Other groups opposing Prop 34 include Consumer Watchdog, the National Organization for Women, the Dolores Huerta Foundation and the League of Women Voters. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It sounds like there are, king of, a few ways voters could approach voting on Prop 34.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. There’s a lot to consider. If you have strong feelings one way or the other about the AIDS Healthcare Foundation’s rent control measure, Prop 33, you might also vote for or against 34 based on that. Or you might vote depending on how you think that 340B money should be spent. But there is also a question of: Do you think propositions should be used in this way? Essentially weaponized in disputes between various interest groups. We’ve seen a lot of this before when labor unions and companies are hashing things out, most recently on the ballot with dialysis clinics. I think some voters will be overwhelmed and frustrated being dragged into this one, and will vote accordingly.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What does funding look like on this prop?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">As of late last month, the California Apartment Association and its supporters had spent $30 million in support of Proposition 34. Meanwhile, the AIDS Healthcare Foundation had spent just over $1 million fighting it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Lot’s to consider on this one. Reporter Aaron Shrank, thank you so much for walking us through it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Thank you so much, Olivia.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In review, a vote yes on prop 34 would limit how a small number of healthcare providers – potentially only one, the AIDS Healthcare Foundation – can spend their revenues from the 340B Drug Price Discount Program. It would also permanently authorize Medi-cal Rx. A vote no means these new rules would not go into effect.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> We really hope you’ve been getting what you need out of Prop Fest so far. You can find transcripts for this episode, and past ones at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/propfest\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">KQED.org/propfest\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If you value the work we’re doing here, please consider donating to KQED to support it! We’re a public media station that runs on listener donations to survive, and every contribution makes a difference. Learn more at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/donate\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">KQED.org/donate\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Prop Fest is a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. It’s made by Alan Montecillo, Jessica Kariisa, Olivia Allen-Price, Amanda Font, Christopher Beale, Ana De Almeida Amaral, and me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We get extra support from Katie Sprenger, Jen Chien, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan, and the whole KQED family\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Tomorrow we will get into Prop 35, which could change how we fund Medical – a lifeline for low income, disabled Californians. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Be sure you’re subscribed to The Bay and Bay Curious so you don’t miss out. We’ll see ya tomorrow.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/12007359/transcript-proposition-34-limits-how-prescription-drug-revenue-can-be-spent-by-certain-providers","authors":["102","8654","11649","8637","11831","11749"],"programs":["news_33523","news_28779"],"series":["news_17986"],"categories":["news_31795","news_457","news_6266","news_8"],"tags":["news_28606","news_32839","news_33812","news_3453","news_22598"],"featImg":"news_12007365","label":"source_news_12007359"}},"programsReducer":{"possible":{"id":"possible","title":"Possible","info":"Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? Each episode also includes a short fiction story generated by advanced AI GPT-4, serving as a thought-provoking springboard to speculate how humanity could leverage technology for good.","airtime":"SUN 2pm","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Possible-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.possible.fm/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"Possible"},"link":"/radio/program/possible","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/possible/id1677184070","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/730YpdUSNlMyPQwNnyjp4k"}},"1a":{"id":"1a","title":"1A","info":"1A is home to the national conversation. 1A brings on great guests and frames the best debate in ways that make you think, share and engage.","airtime":"MON-THU 11pm-12am","imageSrc":"https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/1a.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://the1a.org/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"npr"},"link":"/radio/program/1a","subscribe":{"npr":"https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/RBrW","apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=1188724250&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/1A-p947376/","rss":"https://feeds.npr.org/510316/podcast.xml"}},"all-things-considered":{"id":"all-things-considered","title":"All Things Considered","info":"Every weekday, \u003cem>All Things Considered\u003c/em> hosts Robert Siegel, Audie Cornish, Ari Shapiro, and Kelly McEvers present the program's trademark mix of news, interviews, commentaries, reviews, and offbeat features. Michel Martin hosts on the weekends.","airtime":"MON-FRI 1pm-2pm, 4:30pm-6:30pm\u003cbr />SAT-SUN 5pm-6pm","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/All-Things-Considered-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.npr.org/programs/all-things-considered/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"npr"},"link":"/radio/program/all-things-considered"},"american-suburb-podcast":{"id":"american-suburb-podcast","title":"American Suburb: The Podcast","tagline":"The flip side of gentrification, told through one town","info":"Gentrification is changing cities across America, forcing people from neighborhoods they have long called home. Call them the displaced. Now those priced out of the Bay Area are looking for a better life in an unlikely place. American Suburb follows this migration to one California town along the Delta, 45 miles from San Francisco. But is this once sleepy suburb ready for them?","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/American-Suburb-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"/news/series/american-suburb-podcast","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":17},"link":"/news/series/american-suburb-podcast/","subscribe":{"npr":"https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/RBrW","apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?mt=2&id=1287748328","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/American-Suburb-p1086805/","rss":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/series/american-suburb-podcast/feed/podcast","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkMzMDExODgxNjA5"}},"baycurious":{"id":"baycurious","title":"Bay Curious","tagline":"Exploring the Bay Area, one question at a time","info":"KQED’s new podcast, Bay Curious, gets to the bottom of the mysteries — both profound and peculiar — that give the Bay Area its unique identity. And we’ll do it with your help! You ask the questions. You decide what Bay Curious investigates. 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On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. 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And you join us on the journey to find the answers.\r\n\u003cbr />\r\n\u003cspan class=\"alignleft\">\u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1172473406\">\u003cimg width=\"75px\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/11/DownloadOniTunes_100x100.png\">\u003c/a> \u003ca href=\"https://goo.gl/app/playmusic?ibi=com.google.PlayMusic&isi=691797987&ius=googleplaymusic&link=https://play.google.com/music/m/Ipi2mc5aqfen4nr2daayiziiyuy?t%3DBay_Curious\">\u003cimg width=\"75px\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/11/Google_Play_100x100.png\">\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/div>\r\n\u003c/aside> \r\n\u003ch2>What's your question?\u003c/h2>\r\n\u003cdiv id=\"huxq6\" class=\"curiosity-module\" data-pym-src=\"//modules.wearehearken.com/kqed/curiosity_modules/133\">\u003c/div>\r\n\u003cscript src=\"//assets.wearehearken.com/production/thirdparty/p.m.js\">\u003c/script>\r\n\u003ch2>Bay Curious monthly newsletter\u003c/h2>\r\nWe're launching it soon! \u003ca href=\"https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdEtzbyNbSQkRHCCAkKhoGiAl3Bd0zWxhk0ZseJ1KH_o_ZDjQ/viewform\" target=\"_blank\">Sign up\u003c/a> so you don't miss it when it drops.\r\n","taxonomy":"series","headData":{"twImgId":null,"twTitle":null,"ogTitle":null,"ogImgId":null,"twDescription":null,"description":"A podcast exploring the Bay Area one question at a time KQED’s Bay Curious gets to the bottom of the mysteries — both profound and peculiar — that give the Bay Area its unique identity. 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