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We answer your questions about the people, places, and things that make this region so special.","canonicalUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/baycurious","imageData":{"ogImageSize":{"file":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Bay-Curious-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","width":1200,"height":630},"twImageSize":{"file":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Bay-Curious-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg"},"twitterCard":"summary_large_image"}},"labelTerm":{"site":""},"publishDate":1677106147,"content":"\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken full-width\">\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Contact Us\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\n\u003cp>Send us a note at \u003ca href=\"mailto:baycurious@kqed.org\">baycurious@kqed.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Follow Us\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\n\u003cp>Follow us on Instagram:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/oallenprice/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Follow us on Twitter:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/kqedbaycurious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@kqedbaycurious\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/oallenprice\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-biographies\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/hero","attrs":{"titleLayout":"svg","titleSVG":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Bay-Curious-Logotype@2x.png","backgroundImageAlt":"Bay Curious","backgroundImageUrl":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Bay-Curious-Podcast-Banner-1280x500-1.jpg","blurb":"Bay Curious is a show about your questions – and the adventures you find when you go looking for the answers. Join host Olivia Allen-Price to explore all aspects of the Bay Area – from the debate over \"Frisco\", to the dinosaurs that once roamed California, to the causes of homelessness. Whether you lived here your whole life, or just arrived, Bay Curious will deepen your understanding of this place you call home.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>Looking for more ways to get involved? Play our \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/baycurious#hearken-10392\">trivia contest\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/newsletters/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">sign up for our newsletter\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://survey.alchemer.com/s3/7325022/e2726178469b\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">take our latest survey\u003c/a>, and \u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/baycuriousbook\">check out our book\u003c/a>.","blurbImageAlt":"Bay Curious","blurbImageUrl":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Bay-Curious-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","previewID":"news_11156856","hasSponsorLogo":true},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/columns","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/column","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/hearken","attrs":{"iframeId":"656","className":"half-width"},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/column","attrs":{"heading":"Voting Round"},"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/hearken","attrs":{"header":"Voting Round","iframeId":"4627","className":"half-width"},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/post-list","attrs":{"layout":"cardsRecent","query":"posts?series=baycurious&queryId=c4be3d76f8","title":"Stories","seeMore":true,"sizeBase":6,"sizeSeeMore":6},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/hearken","attrs":{"header":"Monthly Trivia Contest","summary":"Thanks for playing our trivia game, sponsored by Sierra Nevada Brewing Company! From all correct entries, we'll randomly select one winner each month for the prize pack of Bay Curious and Sierra Nevada goodies (Approximate value $50).","iframeId":"10392","className":"full-width"},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken full-width\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken full-width\">\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/listen-and-subscribe","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/email-signup","attrs":{"newsletterSlug":"baycurious"},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/columns","attrs":{"heading":"Contact / Follow"},"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/column","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"core/heading","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Contact Us\u003c/h2>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Contact Us\u003c/h2>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/section","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"core/paragraph","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cp>Send us a note at \u003ca href=\"mailto:baycurious@kqed.org\">baycurious@kqed.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cp>Send us a note at \u003ca href=\"mailto:baycurious@kqed.org\">baycurious@kqed.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"core/paragraph","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\n\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/column","attrs":{"heading":"Follow Us"},"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"core/heading","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Follow Us\u003c/h2>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Follow Us\u003c/h2>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/section","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"core/paragraph","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cp>Follow us on Instagram:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/oallenprice/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cp>Follow us on Instagram:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/oallenprice/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n"]},{"blockName":"core/paragraph","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cp>Follow us on Twitter:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/kqedbaycurious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@kqedbaycurious\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/oallenprice\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cp>Follow us on Twitter:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/kqedbaycurious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@kqedbaycurious\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/oallenprice\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/biographies","attrs":{"heading":"The Bay Curious Team","bioType":"white"},"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/biographies-item","attrs":{"mediaURL":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/11/IMG_2562-e1572650381510.jpg","mediaAlt":"Olivia Allen-Price","name":"Olivia Allen-Price","position":"Host / Editor","bio":"Olivia is a big believer in the value of public-powered journalism. She helped launch \u003cem>Bay Curious\u003c/em> as a radio series in 2015, then turned it into a podcast in 2017. Before working on the show, Olivia was an engagement producer at KQED. She's also worked at \u003cem>The Baltimore Sun\u003c/em> and \u003cem>The Virginian-Pilot\u003c/em>. When not tethered to a computer by a pair of headphones, Olivia loves running, playing with other people's dogs and taking weekend trips around California. Follow her on \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/oallenprice\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Twitter\u003c/a> or \u003ca href=\"https://instagram.com/oallenprice\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Instagram.\u003c/a>","link":"/author/oallenprice"},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/biographies-item","attrs":{"mediaURL":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/a6a567574dafefa959593925eead665c?s=600&d=https://i.imgur.com/u9MDiPR.png&r=g","mediaAlt":"Katrina Schwartz","name":"Katrina Schwartz","position":"Producer","bio":"Katrina grew up in San Francisco and loves learning new things about her hometown. She helped pilot the first iteration of\u003cem> Bay Curious\u003c/em> when it was just a radio feature. Before joining the team, Katrina reported on education for \u003cem>MindShift\u003c/em> and was a finalist for the Education Writers Association beat reporting and audio storytelling awards. She co-hosts the \u003cem>MindShift\u003c/em> podcast about the future of learning, and has been making radio since 2010. When she’s not reporting, Katrina loves reading, the ocean and the mountains, and playing ultimate frisbee.","link":""},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-biographies\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-biographies\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/ad","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/programs","attrs":{"title":"We Also Recommend","programIDs":["mindshift","rightnowish","soldout","onourwatch","thebay","forum"]},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]}],"status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1717716140,"format":"standard","path":"/podcasts/baycurious","redirect":{"type":"internal","url":"/podcasts/baycurious"},"audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken half-width\">\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-hearken full-width\">\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Contact Us\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\n\u003cp>Send us a note at \u003ca href=\"mailto:baycurious@kqed.org\">baycurious@kqed.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Follow Us\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\n\u003cp>Follow us on Instagram:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/oallenprice/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Follow us on Twitter:\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/kqedbaycurious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@kqedbaycurious\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/oallenprice\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@oallenprice\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-biographies\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"featImg":"root-site_21263","label":"root-site","isLoading":false}},"postsReducer":{"stream_live":{"type":"live","id":"stream_live","audioUrl":"https://streams.kqed.org/kqedradio","title":"Live Stream","excerpt":"Live Stream information currently unavailable.","link":"/radio","featImg":"","label":{"name":"KQED Live","link":"/"}},"stream_kqedNewscast":{"type":"posts","id":"stream_kqedNewscast","audioUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/RDnews/newscast.mp3?_=1","title":"KQED Newscast","featImg":"","label":{"name":"88.5 FM","link":"/"}},"news_11808501":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11808501","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"11808501","score":null,"sort":[1726048819000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"does-mount-diablo-have-the-biggest-view-in-the-world","title":"Does Mount Diablo Have the Biggest View in the World?","publishDate":1726048819,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Does Mount Diablo Have the Biggest View in the World? | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cem>Read a transcript of this episode.\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story was originally published March 26, 2020. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Mount Diablo is one of the Bay Area’s grandest landmarks and often the first glimpse of home you might see after a long drive. The mountain sits on the eastern edge of the Bay Area, in Contra Costa County, and its peak is visible from most spots around the Bay. At 3,849 feet, Mount Diablo stands apart from other mountains nearby, not just because of its prominence, but because of the legends that surround it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Years ago, listener Mark Isaak heard a rumor about the view from Mount Diablo’s summit: “I’ve heard that the spot on the earth from which you can see the most land — not just ocean, but actual land — is the summit of Mount Kilimanjaro. But that the summit of Mount Diablo comes in second. Is that true?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriouspodcastinfo]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Taking in the View\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>“The view when you come up here is really amazing,” says Sharon Peterson, Mount Diablo State Park’s interpreter. “How it compares to Kilimanjaro is up for debate, but I’m partial to the view from Mount Diablo, and I think most people are pretty amazed by it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the Mount Diablo Summit Museum and trailhead viewing deck, Peterson says that 40 of California’s 58 counties are visible on a clear day. As little as 1% of some counties can be seen, but still, it’s an impressive tally.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11808512\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11808512\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Sharon-Peterson-800x585.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"585\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Sharon-Peterson-800x585.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Sharon-Peterson-160x117.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Sharon-Peterson-1020x746.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Sharon-Peterson-1920x1404.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sharon Peterson, Mount Diablo State Park’s interpreter, gets to marvel at Mount Diablo’s view regularly. \u003ccite>(Asal Ehsanipour/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“You can see the Golden Gate Bridge today,” says Peterson, pointing west. “You could see both towers with the naked eye. And if I give you the binoculars, you can see it for sure.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Turning north, Peterson points out the Sacramento and San Joaquin rivers merging to form the California Delta. South, she describes a sweeping view of the Diablo Range and Livermore/Pleasanton. Finally we look east, where through the haze we catch a glimpse of the snow-capped Sierra over 100 miles away, rising above the Central Valley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On a clear day you can see Yosemite.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“With binoculars you can see Sentinel Dome. There is a rumor that persists that you can see Half Dome, but it’s blocked by one of the land features in between,” Peterson says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite the view’s magnificence, Seth Adams, land conservation director for Save Mount Diablo, is adamant that the Mount Kilimanjaro myth has no merit: “It’s absolutely not true that Mount Diablo has the largest view in the world except for Mount Kilimanjaro,” he says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Adams has spent a lot of time myth busting the Kilimanjaro claim.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11808538\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 160px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11808538 size-thumbnail\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/2017-Seth-Morgan-Territory-Open-Roads-4-11-2017-160x224.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"160\" height=\"224\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/2017-Seth-Morgan-Territory-Open-Roads-4-11-2017-160x224.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/2017-Seth-Morgan-Territory-Open-Roads-4-11-2017-800x1120.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/2017-Seth-Morgan-Territory-Open-Roads-4-11-2017-1020x1428.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/2017-Seth-Morgan-Territory-Open-Roads-4-11-2017.jpg 1241w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 160px) 100vw, 160px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Seth Adams, land conservation director at Save Mount Diablo, has dug into the history of the oft-repeated viewshed claim. \u003ccite>(Asal Ehsanipour/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“I never quite believed it,” he says. “It just didn’t have the ring of truth to me because it’s a small mountain. Common sense would tell you the taller the mountain, the bigger the view.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Considering the myth has been repeated countless times, he says it makes sense people would believe it. Adams traced the myth back to the 1850s and ’60s, when geologists like Josiah Whitney first surveyed the mountain.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Whitney wrote, “It is believed that there are few, if any, points on the earth’s surface from which so extensive an area may be seen as from Mount Diablo. The whole area thus spread out, can hardly be less than 40,000 square miles.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The legend snowballed from there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Botanist William Brewer, who visited the mountain in the 1860s, wrote, “The view was one never to be forgotten. […] Few views in North America are more extensive — certainly nothing in Europe.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>An article published in the Contra Costa Gazette on April 18, 1874, said that the view from the summit “[showed] more of the earth’s kingdom than is visible from any other known spot on the globe.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11808685\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11808685 size-medium\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Burgess-map-Picture1-800x449.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"449\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Burgess-map-Picture1-800x449.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Burgess-map-Picture1-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Burgess-map-Picture1-1020x572.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Burgess-map-Picture1.jpg 1437w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A brochure printed by entrepreneur Robert Noble Burgess, who purchased the summit of Mount Diablo in 1912. Burgess’ brochures helped popularized the claim that Mount Diablo had the greatest view in the world. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Save Mount Diablo)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The claim about Mount Diablo’s view was repeated for decades, through the end of World War II, when recreation at parks and mountains picked up popularity. Mount Diablo became a go-to tourist spot as the Kilimanjaro claim circulated in travel guides and hiking maps, by railroad companies and auto associations. Even the Contra Costa Development Association published materials in the 1940s describing the mountain as “the world’s greatest view! More territory visible than from any point in the world.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As visitors flocked to Mount Diablo for the views, entrepreneurs saw a chance to make a buck.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“More than half of Mount Diablo was locked up successively by two big real estate land speculators named Robert Noble Burgess and Walter P. Frick,” Adams says. “Both of them printed brochures by the thousands that included the claim of Mount Diablo having the largest view in the world.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11808683\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 300px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11808683\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Frick-brochure-Picture1-1020x1548.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"455\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Frick-brochure-Picture1-1020x1548.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Frick-brochure-Picture1-160x243.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Frick-brochure-Picture1-800x1214.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Frick-brochure-Picture1.jpg 1471w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The entrepreneur Walter P. Frick originally printed brochures claiming that “from the summit of Mount Diablo, a larger area of land and water is visible than from any other point in the world.” He later changed this claim to reflect that the view comes second to Mount Kilimanjaro. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Save Mount Diablo)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Boasting that claim was a smart business move for Burgess, who had bought a portion of the mountain in 1912 and subsequently built the Mount Diablo Scenic Boulevard taking visitors to the summit. In 1917, he had a dream of building thousands of homes on the mountain’s western flank, and those amazing views helped push his agenda forward. Burgess eventually went bankrupt and the deal flopped, but the brochures had done their work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You can definitely credit the brochures for spreading the misinformation, but it’s just too good to claim the largest view in the world,” Adams explains. “And understand that California was a promoter’s dream.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Which brings us to another promoter, the Oakland entrepreneur Walter P. Frick. Initially Frick, who had been Burgess’ business partner, hired a publicist to help him spread the rumor that Mount Diablo’s view was the greatest on earth, which came in handy as he built an 8-foot beacon tower known as the Eye of Diablo. However, the engineers Frick worked with at Standard Oil Company were skeptical of the claim’s validity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The 1928 Standard Oil Bulletin subsequently added a footnote to their brochure promoting the view as the world’s grandest, “Except for a point in Africa.” The reference to Mount Kilimanjaro was clear.\u003cbr>\nFrom there, the legend shifted from Mount Diablo having the largest view in the world to the second largest. That new myth persisted until 1994, when engineer and mountaineer Edward “7.389056099” Earl mathematically debunked the theory.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Using topographical atlases and aeronautical charts, Earl set out to determine the viewshed from the summit of Mount Diablo compared to others in North America.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A viewshed is the area visible from a specific vantage point, including land or water. According to Earl’s calculations, Mount Diablo’s viewshed is between 13,000 and 21,000 square miles. That might sound like a lot, but Earl concluded that from other, taller North American mountains, it’s possible to see over three times as much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With a 19,341-foot elevation, Mount Kilimanjaro soars five times as high as Mount Diablo. In practical terms, a mountain as small as Mount Diablo couldn’t possibly have a greater viewshed than Mount Kilimanjaro — even if it is an isolated peak.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He conclusively showed the Mount Diablo viewshed claim was bogus,” says Adams with a laugh. “But it doesn’t really matter because the claim had already done its work. Mount Diablo became famous. It became beloved. And as I said, Mount Diablo may not have the largest view in the world, but it certainly has the most extraordinary view in the world.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Luckily for visitors, extraordinary can’t be measured with math.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> When it comes to size – Mount Diablo is the Bay Area’s grandest landmark. It’s often the first glimpse of home you’ll see after a long drive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It stands apart from other mountains nearby, not just because of its prominence, but because of the legends that surround it. The Bay Miwok tribe believe the mountain is sacred — that it is the central point of the world’s creation, where man was made.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But it’s a different story that caught the attention of listener Mark Isaak.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Isaak:\u003c/strong> I’ve heard that the spot on the earth from which you can see the most land – not just ocean, but actual land – is the summit of Mount Kilimanjaro, but that the summit of Mount Diablo comes in second. Is that true?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Mark heard this legend so long ago, he can’t remember where it came from. But he’s not alone. Lots of you have heard this story. And it does seem possible. Mount Diablo is an isolated peak, it’s a lot taller than everything else around it. So even though there are lots of taller mountains, they might not have as big of a view because other mountains get in the way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>From the top of Diablo you can see from the Pacific Ocean, all the way across the state to the Sierra. But second biggest view in the world … really?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Today we’re going to find out if Mount Diablo’s view deserves so remarkable an accolade, and explore the story behind the legend. This story first aired in 2020. I’m Olivia Allen-Price. This is Bay Curious.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>SPONSOR MESSAGE\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> OK, so we set out to learn if Mount Diablo is in fact numero dos on the list of places on earth where you can see the most land.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Reporter Asal Ehsanipour takes a winding road to find out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[driving sounds]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> The mystery of the view from Mount Diablo is a romantic one – steeped in local legend. To find out if it’s true, I drove to the source itself.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[GPS: “IN 600 FEET…”]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> From the base of the mountain, it takes me about an hour to get to the top.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[car door shuts, locks]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour (outside)\u003c/strong>: Wow, that took so long.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Asal Ehsanipour: Mount Diablo sits on the Eastern Edge of the Bay Area – in Contra Costa County. But you can see its double peak pyramid from most spots around the Bay. At 3,849 feet, the mountain’s view is second to none. Well, it’s second to one… maybe. We’ll find out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sharon Peterson:\u003c/strong> So the view when you come up here is really amazing. How it compares to Kilimanjaro is up for debate. But I’m kind of partial to the view here from Mount Diablo and I think most people that come are pretty amazed by what the view looks like.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> My tour guide today is Sharon Peterson, Mount Diablo State Park’s interpreter – which, she says, means her job is to tell the story of the park.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[footsteps on a trail]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> Sharon takes me to the summit’s viewing deck. She says that on a clear day, you can see 40 of California’s 58 counties from here. As little as 1% of some. But still.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sharon Peterson:\u003c/strong> This is where we walk out into the wind.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> First, she points west.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sharon Peterson:\u003c/strong> So you can see the Golden Gate Bridge today. You could see both towers with the naked eye. And if I give you the binoculars, you can probably see it for sure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> She whips them out and there it is. The Golden Gate Bridge, 60 31 miles away. Two towers peeking over Round Top in the Berkeley Hills.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour (outside):\u003c/strong> Wow, that’s really cool!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> Then, we turn North. And you can see the Sacramento and San Juaquin rivers forming the Delta.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>South, it’s a sweeping view of the Diablo Range and Livermore – Pleasanton.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And finally, East. Where through the haze we catch a glimpse of the snow-speckled Sierras rising above the Central Valley – over a hundred miles away.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour (outside):\u003c/strong> And I heard that you can also see Yosemite from here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sharon Peterson:\u003c/strong> On a clear day you can. And with binoculars you can see Sentinel Dome. There is a rumor that you can see Half Dome, but it’s actually blocked by one of the land features in between here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> Seeing it for myself, the site is so magnificent, so magical, that it feels like I’m looking down at a watercolor. The only thing that compares is the view from a plane. Maybe it’s possible the myth is true?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Seth Adams:\u003c/strong> It’s absolutely not true that Mt. Diablo has the largest view in the world except for Mount Kilimanjaro.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> Seth Adams is the Land Conservation Director at Save Mount Diablo. And he’s spent a lot of time mythbusting the Kilimanjaro claim.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Seth Adams:\u003c/strong> I never quite believed it. It just didn’t have the ring of truth to me because it’s a small mountain and common sense would tell you the taller the mountain, the bigger the view.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> But considering the myth has been repeated hundreds of times, he says it makes sense people would believe it. Seth traced the infatuation with Diablo back to the 1850s and 60s – when scientists like Josiah [Hosiah] Whitney first geologically surveyed the mountain. That’s Josiah Whitney of Mount Whitney – the tallest mountain in the Sierra Nevada.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Seth Adams:\u003c/strong> Josiah Whitney wrote, “It is believed that there are few, if any, points on the earth’s surface from which so extensive an area may be seen as from Mt. Diablo. The whole area thus spread out, can hardly be less than 40,000 square miles.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> The legend snowballed from there. Repeated over and over for decades – through the end of World War II. A time when people started experiencing parks and mountains recreationally – and Mount Diablo became a go-to tourist spot. The Kilimanjaro claim circulated in travel guides and hiking maps. By railroad companies and auto associations. Even Contra Costa County described it as quote: “the world’s greatest view! More territory visible than from any point in the world.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> But as visitors flocked to Diablo for the views, entrepreneurs saw a chance to make a buck.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Seth Adams:\u003c/strong> More than half of Mount Diablo was locked up successively by two big real estate land speculators. Both of them printed brochures by the thousands that included the claim of Mt. Diablo having the largest view in the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> Boasting that claim was a smart business move for one developer. In 1917, he had a dream of building thousands of homes on Diablo’s western flank, and those amazing views helped push forward his agenda. Eventually the developer went bankrupt and the deal flopped. But, it was too late. The brochures had done their work…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Seth Adams:\u003c/strong> Oh you can definitely credit the brochures with spreading the misinformation. It’s just too good to claim the largest view in the world, right. And understand that California was a promoter’s dream.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> Which brings us to another promoter… the entrepreneur Walter P. Frick, who hired a publicist to help him spread the rumor that Mount Diablo had the greatest view on earth. Especially as he built an 8 foot beacon tower known as the Eye of Diablo. But Frick was working with engineers from the Standard Oil Company… and they were skeptical.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Seth Adams:\u003c/strong> Someone for the first time said, “come on, biggest view in the entire world?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> So after that – the 1928 Standard Oil Bulletin added a footnote to their brochure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Seth Adams:\u003c/strong> “Except for a point in Africa.” Clearly being Mount Kilimanjaro.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> From there, the legend shifted from Mount Diablo having the largest view in the world, to the second largest. It went on like this until 1994 – when it was officially debunked by an engineer slash mountaineer who did the math. His name was Edward Earl, but he went by the nickname “7.389056099.” …Math joke.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Seth Adams:\u003c/strong> He said ‘I don’t believe this. And so what I’m gonna do is I’m going to define the problem and I’m gonna calculate view sheds for lots of other mountains and see how they compare.’\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> Viewshed is “the area visible from a specific vantage point” including land or water. Now remember, Whitney speculated Diablo’s viewshed was about 40,000 square miles. But according to Earl’s calculations, it’s actually between 13,000 and 21,000. That might still sound like a lot, but from other, taller mountains you can see more than 3 times as much. And even for a total non-mathematician like me – it kind of makes sense. Mount Kilimanjaro is 5 times the size of Mount Diablo. So, Diablo couldn’t possibly have a comparable viewshed – even if it is an isolated peak.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Seth Adams:\u003c/strong> He conclusively showed the Mount Diablo viewshed claim was bogus. [laughs] But it doesn’t really matter because the claim had already done its work. Mt. Diablo became famous. It became beloved. And as I said, Mt. Diablo may not have the largest view in the world, but it certainly has the most extraordinary view in the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> And looking out from the summit, it is extraordinary. And luckily for us, extraordinary can’t be measured with math.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>===\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> That was reporter Asal Ehsanipour. Big thanks to Mark Isaak, our question asker this week. And hey — there’s a new voting round up at BayCurious.org. Let’s hear this month’s options…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voice 1:\u003c/strong> I noticed a few older homes in Noe Valley/Mission/Glen Park with “Lipton Tea” on the window. It looks like they’re old corner stores. Any stories on why?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voice 2:\u003c/strong> I would like to know how the effects of climate change in the San Francisco Bay impact the underwater sonic environment. Are there any bio-acoustic studies being done locally on this topic?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voice 3:\u003c/strong> What is the history behind Ashland and Cherryland, two unincorporated communities in the East Bay? What defines an “unincorporated” community?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Head to BayCurious.org to cast your vote for which question you’d like to see us answer next.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Our show is produced by… Amanda Font, Christopher Beale, Ana De Almeida Amaral and Olivia Allen-Price. Special thanks to Katie McMurran, Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan and the whole KQED Family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Happy trails.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"The idea that Mount Diablo has one of the largest viewsheds in the world has been circulating for centuries. Is it true?","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1726081753,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":true,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":93,"wordCount":3383},"headData":{"title":"Does Mount Diablo Have the Biggest View in the World? | KQED","description":"The idea that Mount Diablo has one of the largest viewsheds in the world has been circulating for centuries. Is it true?","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Does Mount Diablo Have the Biggest View in the World?","datePublished":"2024-09-11T03:00:19-07:00","dateModified":"2024-09-11T12:09:13-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"Bay Curious","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/baycurious","audioUrl":"https://traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC9914497354.mp3","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11808501/does-mount-diablo-have-the-biggest-view-in-the-world","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cem>Read a transcript of this episode.\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story was originally published March 26, 2020. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Mount Diablo is one of the Bay Area’s grandest landmarks and often the first glimpse of home you might see after a long drive. The mountain sits on the eastern edge of the Bay Area, in Contra Costa County, and its peak is visible from most spots around the Bay. At 3,849 feet, Mount Diablo stands apart from other mountains nearby, not just because of its prominence, but because of the legends that surround it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Years ago, listener Mark Isaak heard a rumor about the view from Mount Diablo’s summit: “I’ve heard that the spot on the earth from which you can see the most land — not just ocean, but actual land — is the summit of Mount Kilimanjaro. But that the summit of Mount Diablo comes in second. Is that true?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" loading=\"lazy\" />\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Bay Curious\u003c/a> is a podcast that answers your questions about the Bay Area.\n Subscribe on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>,\n \u003ca href=\"http://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">NPR One\u003c/a> or your favorite podcast platform.\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Taking in the View\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>“The view when you come up here is really amazing,” says Sharon Peterson, Mount Diablo State Park’s interpreter. “How it compares to Kilimanjaro is up for debate, but I’m partial to the view from Mount Diablo, and I think most people are pretty amazed by it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the Mount Diablo Summit Museum and trailhead viewing deck, Peterson says that 40 of California’s 58 counties are visible on a clear day. As little as 1% of some counties can be seen, but still, it’s an impressive tally.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11808512\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11808512\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Sharon-Peterson-800x585.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"585\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Sharon-Peterson-800x585.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Sharon-Peterson-160x117.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Sharon-Peterson-1020x746.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Sharon-Peterson-1920x1404.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sharon Peterson, Mount Diablo State Park’s interpreter, gets to marvel at Mount Diablo’s view regularly. \u003ccite>(Asal Ehsanipour/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“You can see the Golden Gate Bridge today,” says Peterson, pointing west. “You could see both towers with the naked eye. And if I give you the binoculars, you can see it for sure.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Turning north, Peterson points out the Sacramento and San Joaquin rivers merging to form the California Delta. South, she describes a sweeping view of the Diablo Range and Livermore/Pleasanton. Finally we look east, where through the haze we catch a glimpse of the snow-capped Sierra over 100 miles away, rising above the Central Valley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On a clear day you can see Yosemite.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“With binoculars you can see Sentinel Dome. There is a rumor that persists that you can see Half Dome, but it’s blocked by one of the land features in between,” Peterson says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite the view’s magnificence, Seth Adams, land conservation director for Save Mount Diablo, is adamant that the Mount Kilimanjaro myth has no merit: “It’s absolutely not true that Mount Diablo has the largest view in the world except for Mount Kilimanjaro,” he says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Adams has spent a lot of time myth busting the Kilimanjaro claim.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11808538\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 160px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11808538 size-thumbnail\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/2017-Seth-Morgan-Territory-Open-Roads-4-11-2017-160x224.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"160\" height=\"224\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/2017-Seth-Morgan-Territory-Open-Roads-4-11-2017-160x224.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/2017-Seth-Morgan-Territory-Open-Roads-4-11-2017-800x1120.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/2017-Seth-Morgan-Territory-Open-Roads-4-11-2017-1020x1428.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/2017-Seth-Morgan-Territory-Open-Roads-4-11-2017.jpg 1241w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 160px) 100vw, 160px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Seth Adams, land conservation director at Save Mount Diablo, has dug into the history of the oft-repeated viewshed claim. \u003ccite>(Asal Ehsanipour/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“I never quite believed it,” he says. “It just didn’t have the ring of truth to me because it’s a small mountain. Common sense would tell you the taller the mountain, the bigger the view.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Considering the myth has been repeated countless times, he says it makes sense people would believe it. Adams traced the myth back to the 1850s and ’60s, when geologists like Josiah Whitney first surveyed the mountain.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Whitney wrote, “It is believed that there are few, if any, points on the earth’s surface from which so extensive an area may be seen as from Mount Diablo. The whole area thus spread out, can hardly be less than 40,000 square miles.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The legend snowballed from there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Botanist William Brewer, who visited the mountain in the 1860s, wrote, “The view was one never to be forgotten. […] Few views in North America are more extensive — certainly nothing in Europe.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>An article published in the Contra Costa Gazette on April 18, 1874, said that the view from the summit “[showed] more of the earth’s kingdom than is visible from any other known spot on the globe.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11808685\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11808685 size-medium\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Burgess-map-Picture1-800x449.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"449\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Burgess-map-Picture1-800x449.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Burgess-map-Picture1-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Burgess-map-Picture1-1020x572.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Burgess-map-Picture1.jpg 1437w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A brochure printed by entrepreneur Robert Noble Burgess, who purchased the summit of Mount Diablo in 1912. Burgess’ brochures helped popularized the claim that Mount Diablo had the greatest view in the world. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Save Mount Diablo)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The claim about Mount Diablo’s view was repeated for decades, through the end of World War II, when recreation at parks and mountains picked up popularity. Mount Diablo became a go-to tourist spot as the Kilimanjaro claim circulated in travel guides and hiking maps, by railroad companies and auto associations. Even the Contra Costa Development Association published materials in the 1940s describing the mountain as “the world’s greatest view! More territory visible than from any point in the world.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As visitors flocked to Mount Diablo for the views, entrepreneurs saw a chance to make a buck.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“More than half of Mount Diablo was locked up successively by two big real estate land speculators named Robert Noble Burgess and Walter P. Frick,” Adams says. “Both of them printed brochures by the thousands that included the claim of Mount Diablo having the largest view in the world.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11808683\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 300px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11808683\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Frick-brochure-Picture1-1020x1548.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"455\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Frick-brochure-Picture1-1020x1548.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Frick-brochure-Picture1-160x243.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Frick-brochure-Picture1-800x1214.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/03/Frick-brochure-Picture1.jpg 1471w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The entrepreneur Walter P. Frick originally printed brochures claiming that “from the summit of Mount Diablo, a larger area of land and water is visible than from any other point in the world.” He later changed this claim to reflect that the view comes second to Mount Kilimanjaro. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Save Mount Diablo)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Boasting that claim was a smart business move for Burgess, who had bought a portion of the mountain in 1912 and subsequently built the Mount Diablo Scenic Boulevard taking visitors to the summit. In 1917, he had a dream of building thousands of homes on the mountain’s western flank, and those amazing views helped push his agenda forward. Burgess eventually went bankrupt and the deal flopped, but the brochures had done their work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You can definitely credit the brochures for spreading the misinformation, but it’s just too good to claim the largest view in the world,” Adams explains. “And understand that California was a promoter’s dream.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Which brings us to another promoter, the Oakland entrepreneur Walter P. Frick. Initially Frick, who had been Burgess’ business partner, hired a publicist to help him spread the rumor that Mount Diablo’s view was the greatest on earth, which came in handy as he built an 8-foot beacon tower known as the Eye of Diablo. However, the engineers Frick worked with at Standard Oil Company were skeptical of the claim’s validity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The 1928 Standard Oil Bulletin subsequently added a footnote to their brochure promoting the view as the world’s grandest, “Except for a point in Africa.” The reference to Mount Kilimanjaro was clear.\u003cbr>\nFrom there, the legend shifted from Mount Diablo having the largest view in the world to the second largest. That new myth persisted until 1994, when engineer and mountaineer Edward “7.389056099” Earl mathematically debunked the theory.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Using topographical atlases and aeronautical charts, Earl set out to determine the viewshed from the summit of Mount Diablo compared to others in North America.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A viewshed is the area visible from a specific vantage point, including land or water. According to Earl’s calculations, Mount Diablo’s viewshed is between 13,000 and 21,000 square miles. That might sound like a lot, but Earl concluded that from other, taller North American mountains, it’s possible to see over three times as much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With a 19,341-foot elevation, Mount Kilimanjaro soars five times as high as Mount Diablo. In practical terms, a mountain as small as Mount Diablo couldn’t possibly have a greater viewshed than Mount Kilimanjaro — even if it is an isolated peak.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He conclusively showed the Mount Diablo viewshed claim was bogus,” says Adams with a laugh. “But it doesn’t really matter because the claim had already done its work. Mount Diablo became famous. It became beloved. And as I said, Mount Diablo may not have the largest view in the world, but it certainly has the most extraordinary view in the world.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Luckily for visitors, extraordinary can’t be measured with math.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"baycuriousquestion","attributes":{"named":{"label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> When it comes to size – Mount Diablo is the Bay Area’s grandest landmark. It’s often the first glimpse of home you’ll see after a long drive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It stands apart from other mountains nearby, not just because of its prominence, but because of the legends that surround it. The Bay Miwok tribe believe the mountain is sacred — that it is the central point of the world’s creation, where man was made.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But it’s a different story that caught the attention of listener Mark Isaak.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mark Isaak:\u003c/strong> I’ve heard that the spot on the earth from which you can see the most land – not just ocean, but actual land – is the summit of Mount Kilimanjaro, but that the summit of Mount Diablo comes in second. Is that true?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Mark heard this legend so long ago, he can’t remember where it came from. But he’s not alone. Lots of you have heard this story. And it does seem possible. Mount Diablo is an isolated peak, it’s a lot taller than everything else around it. So even though there are lots of taller mountains, they might not have as big of a view because other mountains get in the way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>From the top of Diablo you can see from the Pacific Ocean, all the way across the state to the Sierra. But second biggest view in the world … really?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Today we’re going to find out if Mount Diablo’s view deserves so remarkable an accolade, and explore the story behind the legend. This story first aired in 2020. I’m Olivia Allen-Price. This is Bay Curious.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>SPONSOR MESSAGE\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> OK, so we set out to learn if Mount Diablo is in fact numero dos on the list of places on earth where you can see the most land.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Reporter Asal Ehsanipour takes a winding road to find out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[driving sounds]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> The mystery of the view from Mount Diablo is a romantic one – steeped in local legend. To find out if it’s true, I drove to the source itself.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[GPS: “IN 600 FEET…”]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> From the base of the mountain, it takes me about an hour to get to the top.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[car door shuts, locks]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour (outside)\u003c/strong>: Wow, that took so long.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Asal Ehsanipour: Mount Diablo sits on the Eastern Edge of the Bay Area – in Contra Costa County. But you can see its double peak pyramid from most spots around the Bay. At 3,849 feet, the mountain’s view is second to none. Well, it’s second to one… maybe. We’ll find out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sharon Peterson:\u003c/strong> So the view when you come up here is really amazing. How it compares to Kilimanjaro is up for debate. But I’m kind of partial to the view here from Mount Diablo and I think most people that come are pretty amazed by what the view looks like.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> My tour guide today is Sharon Peterson, Mount Diablo State Park’s interpreter – which, she says, means her job is to tell the story of the park.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[footsteps on a trail]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> Sharon takes me to the summit’s viewing deck. She says that on a clear day, you can see 40 of California’s 58 counties from here. As little as 1% of some. But still.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sharon Peterson:\u003c/strong> This is where we walk out into the wind.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> First, she points west.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sharon Peterson:\u003c/strong> So you can see the Golden Gate Bridge today. You could see both towers with the naked eye. And if I give you the binoculars, you can probably see it for sure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> She whips them out and there it is. The Golden Gate Bridge, 60 31 miles away. Two towers peeking over Round Top in the Berkeley Hills.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour (outside):\u003c/strong> Wow, that’s really cool!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> Then, we turn North. And you can see the Sacramento and San Juaquin rivers forming the Delta.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>South, it’s a sweeping view of the Diablo Range and Livermore – Pleasanton.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And finally, East. Where through the haze we catch a glimpse of the snow-speckled Sierras rising above the Central Valley – over a hundred miles away.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour (outside):\u003c/strong> And I heard that you can also see Yosemite from here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sharon Peterson:\u003c/strong> On a clear day you can. And with binoculars you can see Sentinel Dome. There is a rumor that you can see Half Dome, but it’s actually blocked by one of the land features in between here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> Seeing it for myself, the site is so magnificent, so magical, that it feels like I’m looking down at a watercolor. The only thing that compares is the view from a plane. Maybe it’s possible the myth is true?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Seth Adams:\u003c/strong> It’s absolutely not true that Mt. Diablo has the largest view in the world except for Mount Kilimanjaro.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> Seth Adams is the Land Conservation Director at Save Mount Diablo. And he’s spent a lot of time mythbusting the Kilimanjaro claim.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Seth Adams:\u003c/strong> I never quite believed it. It just didn’t have the ring of truth to me because it’s a small mountain and common sense would tell you the taller the mountain, the bigger the view.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> But considering the myth has been repeated hundreds of times, he says it makes sense people would believe it. Seth traced the infatuation with Diablo back to the 1850s and 60s – when scientists like Josiah [Hosiah] Whitney first geologically surveyed the mountain. That’s Josiah Whitney of Mount Whitney – the tallest mountain in the Sierra Nevada.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Seth Adams:\u003c/strong> Josiah Whitney wrote, “It is believed that there are few, if any, points on the earth’s surface from which so extensive an area may be seen as from Mt. Diablo. The whole area thus spread out, can hardly be less than 40,000 square miles.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> The legend snowballed from there. Repeated over and over for decades – through the end of World War II. A time when people started experiencing parks and mountains recreationally – and Mount Diablo became a go-to tourist spot. The Kilimanjaro claim circulated in travel guides and hiking maps. By railroad companies and auto associations. Even Contra Costa County described it as quote: “the world’s greatest view! More territory visible than from any point in the world.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> But as visitors flocked to Diablo for the views, entrepreneurs saw a chance to make a buck.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Seth Adams:\u003c/strong> More than half of Mount Diablo was locked up successively by two big real estate land speculators. Both of them printed brochures by the thousands that included the claim of Mt. Diablo having the largest view in the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> Boasting that claim was a smart business move for one developer. In 1917, he had a dream of building thousands of homes on Diablo’s western flank, and those amazing views helped push forward his agenda. Eventually the developer went bankrupt and the deal flopped. But, it was too late. The brochures had done their work…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Seth Adams:\u003c/strong> Oh you can definitely credit the brochures with spreading the misinformation. It’s just too good to claim the largest view in the world, right. And understand that California was a promoter’s dream.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> Which brings us to another promoter… the entrepreneur Walter P. Frick, who hired a publicist to help him spread the rumor that Mount Diablo had the greatest view on earth. Especially as he built an 8 foot beacon tower known as the Eye of Diablo. But Frick was working with engineers from the Standard Oil Company… and they were skeptical.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Seth Adams:\u003c/strong> Someone for the first time said, “come on, biggest view in the entire world?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> So after that – the 1928 Standard Oil Bulletin added a footnote to their brochure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Seth Adams:\u003c/strong> “Except for a point in Africa.” Clearly being Mount Kilimanjaro.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> From there, the legend shifted from Mount Diablo having the largest view in the world, to the second largest. It went on like this until 1994 – when it was officially debunked by an engineer slash mountaineer who did the math. His name was Edward Earl, but he went by the nickname “7.389056099.” …Math joke.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Seth Adams:\u003c/strong> He said ‘I don’t believe this. And so what I’m gonna do is I’m going to define the problem and I’m gonna calculate view sheds for lots of other mountains and see how they compare.’\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> Viewshed is “the area visible from a specific vantage point” including land or water. Now remember, Whitney speculated Diablo’s viewshed was about 40,000 square miles. But according to Earl’s calculations, it’s actually between 13,000 and 21,000. That might still sound like a lot, but from other, taller mountains you can see more than 3 times as much. And even for a total non-mathematician like me – it kind of makes sense. Mount Kilimanjaro is 5 times the size of Mount Diablo. So, Diablo couldn’t possibly have a comparable viewshed – even if it is an isolated peak.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Seth Adams:\u003c/strong> He conclusively showed the Mount Diablo viewshed claim was bogus. [laughs] But it doesn’t really matter because the claim had already done its work. Mt. Diablo became famous. It became beloved. And as I said, Mt. Diablo may not have the largest view in the world, but it certainly has the most extraordinary view in the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Asal Ehsanipour:\u003c/strong> And looking out from the summit, it is extraordinary. And luckily for us, extraordinary can’t be measured with math.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>===\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> That was reporter Asal Ehsanipour. Big thanks to Mark Isaak, our question asker this week. And hey — there’s a new voting round up at BayCurious.org. Let’s hear this month’s options…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voice 1:\u003c/strong> I noticed a few older homes in Noe Valley/Mission/Glen Park with “Lipton Tea” on the window. It looks like they’re old corner stores. Any stories on why?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voice 2:\u003c/strong> I would like to know how the effects of climate change in the San Francisco Bay impact the underwater sonic environment. Are there any bio-acoustic studies being done locally on this topic?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Voice 3:\u003c/strong> What is the history behind Ashland and Cherryland, two unincorporated communities in the East Bay? What defines an “unincorporated” community?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Head to BayCurious.org to cast your vote for which question you’d like to see us answer next.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Our show is produced by… Amanda Font, Christopher Beale, Ana De Almeida Amaral and Olivia Allen-Price. Special thanks to Katie McMurran, Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan and the whole KQED Family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Happy trails.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11808501/does-mount-diablo-have-the-biggest-view-in-the-world","authors":["11580"],"programs":["news_33523"],"series":["news_17986"],"categories":["news_8","news_33520"],"tags":["news_24345","news_4794"],"featImg":"news_11808521","label":"source_news_11808501"},"news_12001199":{"type":"posts","id":"news_12001199","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"12001199","score":null,"sort":[1724320838000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"the-provocative-and-flamboyant-origins-of-lowriding","title":"The Provocative, Rebellious and Flamboyant Origins of Lowriding","publishDate":1724320838,"format":"standard","headTitle":"The Provocative, Rebellious and Flamboyant Origins of Lowriding | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":33523,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To some, a lowrider might just be a car with hydraulics, but amongst the most passionate followers, lowriding is a culture with its own aesthetic, attitude and history. Lowriding aficionados can now be found globally — in the streets of France, Japan, Dubai and more — each with their own style. But the origins of this artistic automotive subculture are still hotly debated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriouspodcastinfo]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A Bay Curious listener heard that lowriding got its start in both Los Angeles and San José. They asked us to explore the lowriding origin story or stories.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Professor John Ulloa, the Dean of Arts and Social Science at West Valley College, has spent time researching the history of lowriding for his podcast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He says to start at ground zero we have to focus on one group of lowriders, the subculture of \u003ca href=\"https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20230913-pachucos-the-latinx-subculture-that-defied-the-us\">pachucos\u003c/a> in East Los Angeles in the 1940s. Pachuco is Spanish for punk, and the group was made up of primarily Mexican American youth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>‘All my friends know the lowrider’\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>“Pachuco culture is provocative in nature, it really comes out of jazz culture, big band and swing,” Ulloa said. “These kids, by a white dominant paradigm, \u003ca href=\"https://www.pbssocal.org/shows/artbound/pachucos-not-just-mexican-american-males-or-juvenile-delinquents\">were othered and seen as foreign\u003c/a>.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pachucos were children during the Great Depression, and they’d seen friends and family members deported en masse to Mexico — \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12002189/over-1-million-were-deported-to-mexico-nearly-100-years-ago-most-of-them-were-u-s-citizens\">even if they were legal citizens\u003c/a>. So these kids were about fighting assimilation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12001113\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12001113\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-34-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1235\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-34-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-34-KQED-800x494.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-34-KQED-1020x630.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-34-KQED-160x99.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-34-KQED-1536x948.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-34-KQED-1920x1186.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The engine of ‘El Diablo,’ a 1963 GMC truck at the annual King of the Streets car show at the Palace of Fine Arts on Aug. 17, 2024. \u003ccite>(Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Pachuco culture developed in the shadow of World War II, at a time when many Americans were rationing gas, food, and not buying new clothes to save resources for the war effort. Rationing was seen as patriotic, but the pachuco style was extravagant. They wore zoot suits: a clothing style from jazz culture that was popular with Black, Latino and Filipino youth. It featured ballooned pants, exaggerated shoulder pads, and nice hats topped off with a single large feather.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The whole presentation was really flamboyant and seen as not only criminalized but completely un-American,” Ulloa said. “It was the antithesis of the white Anglo picket fence.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12001111\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12001111\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-32-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-32-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-32-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-32-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-32-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-32-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-32-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">At the annual King of the Streets car show at the Palace of Fine Arts on Aug. 17, 2024. \u003ccite>(Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Pachucos also went against the grain when it came to American car culture. In the late ’40s and early ’50s, white Americans were hacking their hot rod cars to go fast. But the pachucos were doing the exact opposite. They bought less expensive, older cars and customized them to go low and slow. Before the advent of hydraulics, that meant making the car heavier to force it lower to the ground.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You ‘slam it,’” said Ulloa, “Literally with sandbags, with rocks, with cinder blocks, with bricks, whatever you could find that was heavy to put in the trunk.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So the argument for Los Angeles being the birthplace of lowriding is compelling. But, Ulloa said, the San José scene is extremely significant in terms of lowrider history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12001107\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12001107\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-21-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-21-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-21-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-21-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-21-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-21-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-21-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Tracy Gallardo sits in her dream car, a 1958 Chevy Impala, at the annual King of the Streets car show at the Palace of Fine Arts on Aug. 17, 2024. \u003ccite>(Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>‘Do You Know the Way to San Jose?’ \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>“The San José argument largely has to do with [it being] the birthplace of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101875250/san-jose-founded-lowrider-magazine-icon-of-chicano-car-culture-goes-out-of-print\">\u003cem>Lowrider\u003c/em> magazine\u003c/a>,” Ulloa said. “It was a lifestyle magazine, it wasn’t just cars and vehicles — it was people.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 1977 while studying at San Jose State, Sonny Madrid launched \u003cem>Lowrider \u003c/em>magazine, a monthly publication that celebrated Chicano culture. A small staff, including some of Madrid’s friends, wrote articles about fashion, music, politics — it was a hit at the newsstands at just the right time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12001102\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12001102\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-7-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-7-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-7-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-7-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-7-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-7-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-7-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The steering wheel of a Buick Regal with ‘SF’ on it at the annual King of the Streets car show at the Palace of Fine Arts on Aug. 17, 2024. \u003ccite>(Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Ulloa stamps the first five years of \u003cem>Lowrider \u003c/em>being published as the “Golden Era,” because people were already lowriding but its circulation was able to reach audiences beyond San José.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003cem>Lowrider \u003c/em>magazine was able to give everyone access to see what people were doing all over the Southwest,” said Ulloa. “The youth had \u003cem>Lowrider\u003c/em> magazine, whether they were lowriding or not — they were able to see themselves at a car show as participants.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12001105\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12001105\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-13-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-13-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-13-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-13-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-13-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-13-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-13-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A Monte Carlo parked on three wheels outside of the Palace of Fine Arts during the annual King of the Streets car show on Aug. 17, 2024. \u003ccite>(Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Lowrider\u003c/em> solidified lowriding as a culture in California, and then the circulation of the magazine went international. The Letters to the Editor section of the magazine was filled with submissions from readers in Great Britain, France, all over the world, giving praise for the magazine’s content.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When there’s a global phenomenon, there’s always a local take on it. Each city adds their own flare to lowriding. People in the know can often spot a Bay Area lowrider versus one from L.A., or San Antonio, or Japan. Maybe it’s a custom paint job, or a tire size popular in a certain area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12001110\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12001110\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-31-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-31-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-31-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-31-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-31-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-31-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-31-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A 1963 Chevy Impala enters the Palace of Fine Arts during the annual King of the Streets car show on Aug. 17, 2024. \u003ccite>(Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Everywhere lowriding goes, the community leaves a mark. Ulloa won’t settle the debate about the origins starting in Los Angeles or San José. He said it originates in the Mexican American experience in the southwestern part of the United States.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To Ulloa, where lowriding started doesn’t matter. But why people care does. Everyone wants to own a piece of history, he said, especially when there are communities who have had their histories systemically erased.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To learn more about lowriding, check out these episodes of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13923205/best-of-roll-with-us-a-sisterhood-of-lowriding\">Rightnowish \u003c/a>and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/trulyca/99/everything-comes-from-the-streets\">Truly CA\u003c/a>\u003cem>. \u003c/em>And if you want to know how lowriding — once banned in California — finally became legal, check out this episode of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11966254/california-lifts-decades-old-ban-on-lowrider-cruising\">The Bay\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12001112\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12001112\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-33-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-33-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-33-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-33-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-33-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-33-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-33-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A car with a sign reading ‘I’m not old, I’m classic’ is displayed on a 1964 GMC truck at the annual King of the Streets car show at the Palace of Fine Arts on Aug. 17, 2024. \u003ccite>(Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>When Naomi Barrios and her sister Rosie were teenagers in the 1980s, they would look forward to cruising around Salinas every Friday and Saturday night. They’d roll low and slow, down Alisal Street.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>(music begins)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naomi Barrios: \u003c/strong>That was the best. Meeting people, seeing cars, having fun, enjoying the music, flirting with guys. It was fun!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Naomi and Ros would cruise in a burgundy Pontiac Firebird … sporty looking car … with a regal yellow firebird painted on the hood.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naomi Barrios:\u003c/strong> After we would cruise a little bit, a couple times, you know, three times. Then we would park, at a Winchell’s Donut place. That was our spot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> In the parking lot people, mostly from Salina’s Chicano community, would line up their immaculate cars and show off their newest modifications. I’m talking leather seats, shiny rims and precise paint jobs. These cars weren’t simply modes of transportation. They were creative vessels, canvases for artistic expression, one’s pride and joy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naomi Barrios: \u003c/strong>It was a big crowd hanging out there outside. Inside everybody ordering, chatting. Everybody had their music on. Again, just looking at their cars, meeting new people, making new friends.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> The whole thing … it was a scene. One that was popping up in communities all across California. That’s because California is the birthplace of lowriding culture … but where exactly that birthplace is has been a point of contention. Some folks say Lowriding started down in L.A., others say things got going in San José.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> A Bay Curious listener asked us to unpack the dispute. You selected the question in a public voting round. So, today on the show, we’ll explore the lowriding origin story … or stories. Then, we’ll learn how lowriding became criminalized, and catch up on where things are at today. I’m Olivia Allen-Price. We roll … right after this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Sponsor Message\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>So, did lowriding start in San José or L.A.? Or somewhere else all together? To start today’s episode, Bay Curious intern, Ana De Almeida Amaral, headed out to a car show to get the lay of the land.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ana De Almeida Amaral (in tape):\u003c/strong> So I’m in a parking lot and there are dozens of cars just parked along both sides, and they’re painted all sorts of beautiful colors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ana De Almeida Amaral: \u003c/strong>Right behind the palace of fine arts in San Francisco, over a hundred people are gathered for the King of the Streets car show. In the middle of the parking lot, a sparkly, lime green Chevy is parked — with the hood popped revealing a shiny chrome engine. Nearby is a light blue two-seater, with a painting of a nude woman on the hood. The car is balanced on three wheels — one wheel 3 feet in the air — showing off its hydraulic suspension.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ana De Almeida Amaral: \u003c/strong>People stand around cars that look like art pieces, drinking, eating, and talking all about the features. A car owner named Carlos brags about his ride.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carlos:\u003c/strong> That’s my car right there, El Mas Gangster de Todos. It’s a 1948 Buick Super 50. It’s all original … original chromes, original paint.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ana De Almeida Amaral:\u003c/strong> As I walked down rows and rows of lifted, candy painted, and tricked out cars, I bumped into Anthony, who was wiping his white car’s exterior with a towel even though, to me, it already looked pristine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Anthony:\u003c/strong> This is a 1969 Chevy Caprice, it has a 350 small block, uh brand new block. It has hydraulics, it’s lifted front and back — were from the BLVD Kings Car Club.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ana De Almeida Amaral:\u003c/strong> And how long have you been working on cars?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Anthony:\u003c/strong> Oof, since I was a kid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ana De Almeida Amaral:\u003c/strong> He points to an older man working on the car with him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Anthony:\u003c/strong> He basically taught me everything I know, the first car I remember him having was a ’72 Impala, so that basically got me into it. And then I remember growing up in the mission, seeing all the mini-trucks going up and down the mission. So, it’s been all my life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ana De Almeida Amaral:\u003c/strong> Other people I spoke to shared the same passion for this art form and a deep pride in the lowriding culture. But when I asked about the origins of lowriding, I got a lot of answers …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ana De Almeida Amaral (in tape):\u003c/strong> Where do you think that it got started?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Anthony: \u003c/strong>Oh, L.A. all day. Everybody knows, lowriding got started in L.A.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Man 1 at the car show:\u003c/strong> In my hometown, Turlock, California. Cause I was a kid from there! [laughs]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Man 2 at the car show:\u003c/strong> Hmmm, it’s been said San José.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Man 3 at the car show:\u003c/strong> From what I understand, it started somewhere in Baja California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Robert:\u003c/strong> I think it started with every little kid who had a Hot Wheels and stole their mom’s nail polish and started candy painting their hot wheels.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Out on the streets, Ana didn’t find a straight answer, so we passed it off to reporter Sebastian Miño-Bucheli to dive deeper into the world of lowriding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli:\u003c/strong> It’s clear that within the lowriding community, this matter isn’t settled. So I talked to someone who has been studying lowriding for a long time … Professor John Ulloa.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa:\u003c/strong> It’s debatable. I mean, it’s hotly debated. Hotly debated. Everybody wants to claim ground zero for low riding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli:\u003c/strong> Ulloa is the dean of arts and social science at West Valley College. He says one tough thing about this question is that lowriding has evolved a lot over time …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa:\u003c/strong> A lot of people say, well, it’s a it’s a car with hydraulics on it. But if you’re looking at culture and you’re looking at stance of car, you’re looking at attitude, you’re looking at aesthetics. Um, you know, the clothing and in tandem with the cars and, you know. Just the presence of, you know, how one presents themselves culturally… I think that we really have to be looking at the pachucos of the 1940s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Jazzy mellow music from the 1940s era)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli:\u003c/strong> Here comes the argument for Los Angeles being the birthplace of lowriding …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli:\u003c/strong> The pachucos were a subculture of predominantly Mexican American young people that thrived in East Los Angeles around World War II. Pachuco means “Punk” in Spanish\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They were kids during the Great Depression, and had seen their friends and family members of Mexican descent deported en masse, even those who were American citizens. It was part of the U.S. government’s “repatriation” program … which ultimately saw the mass deportation of about a million people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa: \u003c/strong>These kids, by a white dominant paradigm, were othered and seen as foreign.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli:\u003c/strong> The U.S., and white society had not treated their families well, so the pachucos were all about resisting assimilation, and instead creating something of their own.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa: \u003c/strong>Pachuco culture is provocative in nature.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(music ends)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli:\u003c/strong> During World War II, many Americans were showing their patriotism by rationing … using less gas, eating less food, not buying new clothes. The idea was to save resources for the war effort. But the pachucos … they were rocking the Zoot suit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa: \u003c/strong>You have an exaggerated aesthetic with ballooned out pants, exaggerated shoulders in the coats. Um, you know, topped off with a nice hat with a big single feather.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli:\u003c/strong> This clothing style came from jazz culture and it was popular amongst Black, Latino and Filipino youth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa: \u003c/strong>So the whole presentation was really flamboyant and seen as not only criminalized but completely un-American.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli:\u003c/strong> Around this time, in the ’40s, White Americans were hacking their hotrod cars to go fast. So pachucos did the exact opposite. They went low and slow … sending a clear message about their nonconformity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa: \u003c/strong>Necessity is the mother of all invention, right so. It was cheap to get a ’30s car and work on it, you know make it your own. You lower it in the back or you lower it all the way around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli:\u003c/strong> And this was decades before hydraulics came on the scene, so getting low meant filling the trunk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa: \u003c/strong>You slam it quote unquote as we say. Literally. With sandbags, with rocks, with cinder blocks, with bricks, whatever you could find that was heavy to put in the trunk. What that would do is that would take the car from sitting level, to being lowered in the back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli:\u003c/strong> The pachucos also pushed against the grain with candy-colored paint jobs and Chicano art. These cars were a loud and proud statement about their culture.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa: \u003c/strong>Low and slow was the antithesis of hot rod fast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli:\u003c/strong> So if we’re looking at who are the OG lowriders, the first to start driving low and slow, Los Angeles and the pachucos have a compelling argument. But then where does this San Jose argument come from? What stake does that city have in lowriding culture?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa:\u003c/strong> The San José argument largely has to do with it’s the birthplace of \u003cem>Lowrider\u003c/em> magazine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Mellow 1970s era music)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>In 1977, a guy named Sonny Madrid was a student at San Jose State. With a few friends, he launched \u003cem>Lowrider\u003c/em> magazine, a monthly that celebrated Chicano culture.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa:\u003c/strong> It was a lifestyle magazine. It wasn’t just cars and vehicles. It was people. Right …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>The magazine had articles about fashion, music, politics. And it was hitting newsstands at just the right time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa:\u003c/strong> The Golden Era, as I’ve timestamped it, was from 1977 to 1982 and those were the first five years of \u003cem>Lowrider\u003c/em> magazine. People were already lowriding prior to \u003cem>Lowrider\u003c/em> magazine, but now what \u003cem>Lowrider\u003c/em> magazine did is it was able to give everyone access to see what people were doing all over the Southwest, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>It helped solidify lowriding as a culture. And then it exported that culture making it into a global phenomenon. The Letters to the Editor section of the magazine put that on full display.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa:\u003c/strong> There were letters in there from Great Britain, Scandinavia, France, Germany, all over the world. People are saying, “Hey, I just got your magazine in my hand, and this is so cool. We don’t have this here, but as soon as we can, we will.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>And when there’s a global phenomenon going around, there’s always a local take on the phenomenon. Each city adds their own flare to lowriding. People in the know can often spot a Bay Area lowrider versus one from L.A. or one from San Antonio, or Japan. Maybe it’s a custom paint job. Or a tire size popular in a certain area. Everywhere lowriding goes, the community leaves a mark.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Blues begins)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>At the end of the day, Ulloa won’t settle the debate about if lowriding started in Los Angeles … or if what came out of San José and \u003cem>Lowrider\u003c/em> magazine was so unique it was something new altogether …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa:\u003c/strong> Safely we can say that lowriding originates in the Mexican American experience in the southwestern part of the United States.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>To Ulloa, where lowriding started doesn’t matter. But why people care does.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa:\u003c/strong> The real question is why are people planting that flag? That’s the deeper question and everybody wants to own history. Especially communities that have historically had their histories systematically erased, swept under the rug, ignored, altered, unheard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music in the clear for a few seconds and then fades)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Sebastian, Lowriding has such a fascinating history in this state. And while we can celebrate that it was born here, it hasn’t always been accepted here. Can you explain how lowriding first became criminalized?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>If we go back to the pachucos in the 1940s, they were surrounded by military personnel in Los Angeles waiting to leave to fight in World War II. And the presence of pachucos did not sit well with them. They thought zoot suits were unpatriotic … a sign of gang affiliation. And that’s a narrative that the local press really fed into.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>There were a series of violent clashes where off-duty servicemen, police and white civilians attacked the pachucos, known as the Zoot Suit Riots. Anyone caught by the mob were stripped of their zoot suits and beaten. That’s where we start to see pachuco culture become targeted by police. Racial profiling is happening. And it extends to people driving lowriders. This criminalization of lowriding would play out for decades to come.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>In 1982, the state of California passed a law that allowed cities to implement cruising bans … over concerns about traffic, noise and crime. It also set limits on how much a car could be lowered. And then Soon after that cities like Sacramento, Fresno, L.A. and San José all had cruising bans on the books. What happened to the community in those places?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>The culture didn’t go anywhere, but people did get creative. People kept lowriding, eventually car shows started happening. These were sanctioned events where the lowriding community could still gather. But ultimately, activists started working to change things. And it worked! Just last year, California passed AB 436, a law that overturns the cruising bans, and lifts that prohibition on how low cars can go.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We’re still seeing how it all plays out on the local level, but this last May, East San José had their first lowrider event since the ban was lifted for Cinco de Mayo. And people I spoke with there were optimistic about the future. And they were really happy to be there that day to share in the community and culture. They said finally we’re able to do this again!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli. Thanks for your reporting on this one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>You’re welcome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music with trumpets begins)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>KQED’s podcast The Bay has an excellent episode from when the cruising ban was lifted last year, that gets a lot more into how it was criminalized. It’s called “\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11966254/california-lifts-decades-old-ban-on-lowrider-cruising\">California Lifts Decades-Old Ban on Lowrider Cruising.\u003c/a>” We’ll link to it in our show notes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Also in our show notes is a link to the web story for this Bay Curious podcast episode — check it out for some awesome photos of that lowrider car show our intern Ana went to, along with several videos KQED has produced about lowriders over the years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. If you like what we’re doing here at Bay Curious, please consider becoming a KQED member today. Learn more at \u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/donate\">KQED.org/donate\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>This episode was produced by Ana De Almeida Amaral, Amanda Font, Christopher Beale, and me Olivia Allen-Price. Special thanks to Katrina Schwartz, Katie Sprenger, Jen Chien, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan and the whole KQED Family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>I’m Olivia Allen-Price … hoping you have a wonderful week. Bye!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Did lowriding start in Los Angeles or San José? We explore the history in both places, and touch on the recent decriminalization of lowriding statewide. ","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1724950797,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":true,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":107,"wordCount":3912},"headData":{"title":"The Provocative, Rebellious and Flamboyant Origins of Lowriding | KQED","description":"Did lowriding start in Los Angeles or San José? We explore the history in both places, and touch on the recent decriminalization of lowriding statewide. ","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"The Provocative, Rebellious and Flamboyant Origins of Lowriding","datePublished":"2024-08-22T03:00:38-07:00","dateModified":"2024-08-29T09:59:57-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC6056589415.mp3","sticky":false,"nprStoryId":"kqed-12001199","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/12001199/the-provocative-and-flamboyant-origins-of-lowriding","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To some, a lowrider might just be a car with hydraulics, but amongst the most passionate followers, lowriding is a culture with its own aesthetic, attitude and history. Lowriding aficionados can now be found globally — in the streets of France, Japan, Dubai and more — each with their own style. But the origins of this artistic automotive subculture are still hotly debated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" loading=\"lazy\" />\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Bay Curious\u003c/a> is a podcast that answers your questions about the Bay Area.\n Subscribe on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>,\n \u003ca href=\"http://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">NPR One\u003c/a> or your favorite podcast platform.\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A Bay Curious listener heard that lowriding got its start in both Los Angeles and San José. They asked us to explore the lowriding origin story or stories.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Professor John Ulloa, the Dean of Arts and Social Science at West Valley College, has spent time researching the history of lowriding for his podcast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He says to start at ground zero we have to focus on one group of lowriders, the subculture of \u003ca href=\"https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20230913-pachucos-the-latinx-subculture-that-defied-the-us\">pachucos\u003c/a> in East Los Angeles in the 1940s. Pachuco is Spanish for punk, and the group was made up of primarily Mexican American youth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>‘All my friends know the lowrider’\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>“Pachuco culture is provocative in nature, it really comes out of jazz culture, big band and swing,” Ulloa said. “These kids, by a white dominant paradigm, \u003ca href=\"https://www.pbssocal.org/shows/artbound/pachucos-not-just-mexican-american-males-or-juvenile-delinquents\">were othered and seen as foreign\u003c/a>.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pachucos were children during the Great Depression, and they’d seen friends and family members deported en masse to Mexico — \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12002189/over-1-million-were-deported-to-mexico-nearly-100-years-ago-most-of-them-were-u-s-citizens\">even if they were legal citizens\u003c/a>. So these kids were about fighting assimilation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12001113\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12001113\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-34-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1235\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-34-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-34-KQED-800x494.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-34-KQED-1020x630.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-34-KQED-160x99.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-34-KQED-1536x948.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-34-KQED-1920x1186.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The engine of ‘El Diablo,’ a 1963 GMC truck at the annual King of the Streets car show at the Palace of Fine Arts on Aug. 17, 2024. \u003ccite>(Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Pachuco culture developed in the shadow of World War II, at a time when many Americans were rationing gas, food, and not buying new clothes to save resources for the war effort. Rationing was seen as patriotic, but the pachuco style was extravagant. They wore zoot suits: a clothing style from jazz culture that was popular with Black, Latino and Filipino youth. It featured ballooned pants, exaggerated shoulder pads, and nice hats topped off with a single large feather.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The whole presentation was really flamboyant and seen as not only criminalized but completely un-American,” Ulloa said. “It was the antithesis of the white Anglo picket fence.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12001111\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12001111\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-32-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-32-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-32-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-32-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-32-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-32-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-32-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">At the annual King of the Streets car show at the Palace of Fine Arts on Aug. 17, 2024. \u003ccite>(Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Pachucos also went against the grain when it came to American car culture. In the late ’40s and early ’50s, white Americans were hacking their hot rod cars to go fast. But the pachucos were doing the exact opposite. They bought less expensive, older cars and customized them to go low and slow. Before the advent of hydraulics, that meant making the car heavier to force it lower to the ground.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You ‘slam it,’” said Ulloa, “Literally with sandbags, with rocks, with cinder blocks, with bricks, whatever you could find that was heavy to put in the trunk.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So the argument for Los Angeles being the birthplace of lowriding is compelling. But, Ulloa said, the San José scene is extremely significant in terms of lowrider history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12001107\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12001107\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-21-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-21-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-21-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-21-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-21-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-21-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-21-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Tracy Gallardo sits in her dream car, a 1958 Chevy Impala, at the annual King of the Streets car show at the Palace of Fine Arts on Aug. 17, 2024. \u003ccite>(Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>‘Do You Know the Way to San Jose?’ \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>“The San José argument largely has to do with [it being] the birthplace of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101875250/san-jose-founded-lowrider-magazine-icon-of-chicano-car-culture-goes-out-of-print\">\u003cem>Lowrider\u003c/em> magazine\u003c/a>,” Ulloa said. “It was a lifestyle magazine, it wasn’t just cars and vehicles — it was people.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 1977 while studying at San Jose State, Sonny Madrid launched \u003cem>Lowrider \u003c/em>magazine, a monthly publication that celebrated Chicano culture. A small staff, including some of Madrid’s friends, wrote articles about fashion, music, politics — it was a hit at the newsstands at just the right time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12001102\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12001102\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-7-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-7-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-7-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-7-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-7-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-7-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-7-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The steering wheel of a Buick Regal with ‘SF’ on it at the annual King of the Streets car show at the Palace of Fine Arts on Aug. 17, 2024. \u003ccite>(Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Ulloa stamps the first five years of \u003cem>Lowrider \u003c/em>being published as the “Golden Era,” because people were already lowriding but its circulation was able to reach audiences beyond San José.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003cem>Lowrider \u003c/em>magazine was able to give everyone access to see what people were doing all over the Southwest,” said Ulloa. “The youth had \u003cem>Lowrider\u003c/em> magazine, whether they were lowriding or not — they were able to see themselves at a car show as participants.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12001105\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12001105\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-13-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-13-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-13-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-13-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-13-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-13-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-13-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A Monte Carlo parked on three wheels outside of the Palace of Fine Arts during the annual King of the Streets car show on Aug. 17, 2024. \u003ccite>(Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Lowrider\u003c/em> solidified lowriding as a culture in California, and then the circulation of the magazine went international. The Letters to the Editor section of the magazine was filled with submissions from readers in Great Britain, France, all over the world, giving praise for the magazine’s content.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When there’s a global phenomenon, there’s always a local take on it. Each city adds their own flare to lowriding. People in the know can often spot a Bay Area lowrider versus one from L.A., or San Antonio, or Japan. Maybe it’s a custom paint job, or a tire size popular in a certain area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12001110\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12001110\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-31-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-31-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-31-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-31-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-31-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-31-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-31-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A 1963 Chevy Impala enters the Palace of Fine Arts during the annual King of the Streets car show on Aug. 17, 2024. \u003ccite>(Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Everywhere lowriding goes, the community leaves a mark. Ulloa won’t settle the debate about the origins starting in Los Angeles or San José. He said it originates in the Mexican American experience in the southwestern part of the United States.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To Ulloa, where lowriding started doesn’t matter. But why people care does. Everyone wants to own a piece of history, he said, especially when there are communities who have had their histories systemically erased.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To learn more about lowriding, check out these episodes of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13923205/best-of-roll-with-us-a-sisterhood-of-lowriding\">Rightnowish \u003c/a>and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/trulyca/99/everything-comes-from-the-streets\">Truly CA\u003c/a>\u003cem>. \u003c/em>And if you want to know how lowriding — once banned in California — finally became legal, check out this episode of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11966254/california-lifts-decades-old-ban-on-lowrider-cruising\">The Bay\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12001112\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12001112\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-33-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-33-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-33-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-33-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-33-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-33-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240817_LOWRIDERS_GC-33-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A car with a sign reading ‘I’m not old, I’m classic’ is displayed on a 1964 GMC truck at the annual King of the Streets car show at the Palace of Fine Arts on Aug. 17, 2024. \u003ccite>(Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"baycuriousquestion","attributes":{"named":{"label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>When Naomi Barrios and her sister Rosie were teenagers in the 1980s, they would look forward to cruising around Salinas every Friday and Saturday night. They’d roll low and slow, down Alisal Street.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>(music begins)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naomi Barrios: \u003c/strong>That was the best. Meeting people, seeing cars, having fun, enjoying the music, flirting with guys. It was fun!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Naomi and Ros would cruise in a burgundy Pontiac Firebird … sporty looking car … with a regal yellow firebird painted on the hood.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naomi Barrios:\u003c/strong> After we would cruise a little bit, a couple times, you know, three times. Then we would park, at a Winchell’s Donut place. That was our spot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> In the parking lot people, mostly from Salina’s Chicano community, would line up their immaculate cars and show off their newest modifications. I’m talking leather seats, shiny rims and precise paint jobs. These cars weren’t simply modes of transportation. They were creative vessels, canvases for artistic expression, one’s pride and joy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Naomi Barrios: \u003c/strong>It was a big crowd hanging out there outside. Inside everybody ordering, chatting. Everybody had their music on. Again, just looking at their cars, meeting new people, making new friends.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> The whole thing … it was a scene. One that was popping up in communities all across California. That’s because California is the birthplace of lowriding culture … but where exactly that birthplace is has been a point of contention. Some folks say Lowriding started down in L.A., others say things got going in San José.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> A Bay Curious listener asked us to unpack the dispute. You selected the question in a public voting round. So, today on the show, we’ll explore the lowriding origin story … or stories. Then, we’ll learn how lowriding became criminalized, and catch up on where things are at today. I’m Olivia Allen-Price. We roll … right after this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Sponsor Message\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>So, did lowriding start in San José or L.A.? Or somewhere else all together? To start today’s episode, Bay Curious intern, Ana De Almeida Amaral, headed out to a car show to get the lay of the land.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ana De Almeida Amaral (in tape):\u003c/strong> So I’m in a parking lot and there are dozens of cars just parked along both sides, and they’re painted all sorts of beautiful colors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ana De Almeida Amaral: \u003c/strong>Right behind the palace of fine arts in San Francisco, over a hundred people are gathered for the King of the Streets car show. In the middle of the parking lot, a sparkly, lime green Chevy is parked — with the hood popped revealing a shiny chrome engine. Nearby is a light blue two-seater, with a painting of a nude woman on the hood. The car is balanced on three wheels — one wheel 3 feet in the air — showing off its hydraulic suspension.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ana De Almeida Amaral: \u003c/strong>People stand around cars that look like art pieces, drinking, eating, and talking all about the features. A car owner named Carlos brags about his ride.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carlos:\u003c/strong> That’s my car right there, El Mas Gangster de Todos. It’s a 1948 Buick Super 50. It’s all original … original chromes, original paint.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ana De Almeida Amaral:\u003c/strong> As I walked down rows and rows of lifted, candy painted, and tricked out cars, I bumped into Anthony, who was wiping his white car’s exterior with a towel even though, to me, it already looked pristine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Anthony:\u003c/strong> This is a 1969 Chevy Caprice, it has a 350 small block, uh brand new block. It has hydraulics, it’s lifted front and back — were from the BLVD Kings Car Club.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ana De Almeida Amaral:\u003c/strong> And how long have you been working on cars?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Anthony:\u003c/strong> Oof, since I was a kid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ana De Almeida Amaral:\u003c/strong> He points to an older man working on the car with him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Anthony:\u003c/strong> He basically taught me everything I know, the first car I remember him having was a ’72 Impala, so that basically got me into it. And then I remember growing up in the mission, seeing all the mini-trucks going up and down the mission. So, it’s been all my life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ana De Almeida Amaral:\u003c/strong> Other people I spoke to shared the same passion for this art form and a deep pride in the lowriding culture. But when I asked about the origins of lowriding, I got a lot of answers …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ana De Almeida Amaral (in tape):\u003c/strong> Where do you think that it got started?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Anthony: \u003c/strong>Oh, L.A. all day. Everybody knows, lowriding got started in L.A.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Man 1 at the car show:\u003c/strong> In my hometown, Turlock, California. Cause I was a kid from there! [laughs]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Man 2 at the car show:\u003c/strong> Hmmm, it’s been said San José.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Man 3 at the car show:\u003c/strong> From what I understand, it started somewhere in Baja California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Robert:\u003c/strong> I think it started with every little kid who had a Hot Wheels and stole their mom’s nail polish and started candy painting their hot wheels.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Out on the streets, Ana didn’t find a straight answer, so we passed it off to reporter Sebastian Miño-Bucheli to dive deeper into the world of lowriding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli:\u003c/strong> It’s clear that within the lowriding community, this matter isn’t settled. So I talked to someone who has been studying lowriding for a long time … Professor John Ulloa.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa:\u003c/strong> It’s debatable. I mean, it’s hotly debated. Hotly debated. Everybody wants to claim ground zero for low riding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli:\u003c/strong> Ulloa is the dean of arts and social science at West Valley College. He says one tough thing about this question is that lowriding has evolved a lot over time …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa:\u003c/strong> A lot of people say, well, it’s a it’s a car with hydraulics on it. But if you’re looking at culture and you’re looking at stance of car, you’re looking at attitude, you’re looking at aesthetics. Um, you know, the clothing and in tandem with the cars and, you know. Just the presence of, you know, how one presents themselves culturally… I think that we really have to be looking at the pachucos of the 1940s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Jazzy mellow music from the 1940s era)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli:\u003c/strong> Here comes the argument for Los Angeles being the birthplace of lowriding …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli:\u003c/strong> The pachucos were a subculture of predominantly Mexican American young people that thrived in East Los Angeles around World War II. Pachuco means “Punk” in Spanish\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They were kids during the Great Depression, and had seen their friends and family members of Mexican descent deported en masse, even those who were American citizens. It was part of the U.S. government’s “repatriation” program … which ultimately saw the mass deportation of about a million people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa: \u003c/strong>These kids, by a white dominant paradigm, were othered and seen as foreign.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli:\u003c/strong> The U.S., and white society had not treated their families well, so the pachucos were all about resisting assimilation, and instead creating something of their own.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa: \u003c/strong>Pachuco culture is provocative in nature.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(music ends)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli:\u003c/strong> During World War II, many Americans were showing their patriotism by rationing … using less gas, eating less food, not buying new clothes. The idea was to save resources for the war effort. But the pachucos … they were rocking the Zoot suit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa: \u003c/strong>You have an exaggerated aesthetic with ballooned out pants, exaggerated shoulders in the coats. Um, you know, topped off with a nice hat with a big single feather.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli:\u003c/strong> This clothing style came from jazz culture and it was popular amongst Black, Latino and Filipino youth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa: \u003c/strong>So the whole presentation was really flamboyant and seen as not only criminalized but completely un-American.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli:\u003c/strong> Around this time, in the ’40s, White Americans were hacking their hotrod cars to go fast. So pachucos did the exact opposite. They went low and slow … sending a clear message about their nonconformity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa: \u003c/strong>Necessity is the mother of all invention, right so. It was cheap to get a ’30s car and work on it, you know make it your own. You lower it in the back or you lower it all the way around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli:\u003c/strong> And this was decades before hydraulics came on the scene, so getting low meant filling the trunk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa: \u003c/strong>You slam it quote unquote as we say. Literally. With sandbags, with rocks, with cinder blocks, with bricks, whatever you could find that was heavy to put in the trunk. What that would do is that would take the car from sitting level, to being lowered in the back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli:\u003c/strong> The pachucos also pushed against the grain with candy-colored paint jobs and Chicano art. These cars were a loud and proud statement about their culture.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa: \u003c/strong>Low and slow was the antithesis of hot rod fast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli:\u003c/strong> So if we’re looking at who are the OG lowriders, the first to start driving low and slow, Los Angeles and the pachucos have a compelling argument. But then where does this San Jose argument come from? What stake does that city have in lowriding culture?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa:\u003c/strong> The San José argument largely has to do with it’s the birthplace of \u003cem>Lowrider\u003c/em> magazine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Mellow 1970s era music)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>In 1977, a guy named Sonny Madrid was a student at San Jose State. With a few friends, he launched \u003cem>Lowrider\u003c/em> magazine, a monthly that celebrated Chicano culture.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa:\u003c/strong> It was a lifestyle magazine. It wasn’t just cars and vehicles. It was people. Right …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>The magazine had articles about fashion, music, politics. And it was hitting newsstands at just the right time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa:\u003c/strong> The Golden Era, as I’ve timestamped it, was from 1977 to 1982 and those were the first five years of \u003cem>Lowrider\u003c/em> magazine. People were already lowriding prior to \u003cem>Lowrider\u003c/em> magazine, but now what \u003cem>Lowrider\u003c/em> magazine did is it was able to give everyone access to see what people were doing all over the Southwest, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>It helped solidify lowriding as a culture. And then it exported that culture making it into a global phenomenon. The Letters to the Editor section of the magazine put that on full display.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa:\u003c/strong> There were letters in there from Great Britain, Scandinavia, France, Germany, all over the world. People are saying, “Hey, I just got your magazine in my hand, and this is so cool. We don’t have this here, but as soon as we can, we will.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>And when there’s a global phenomenon going around, there’s always a local take on the phenomenon. Each city adds their own flare to lowriding. People in the know can often spot a Bay Area lowrider versus one from L.A. or one from San Antonio, or Japan. Maybe it’s a custom paint job. Or a tire size popular in a certain area. Everywhere lowriding goes, the community leaves a mark.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Blues begins)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>At the end of the day, Ulloa won’t settle the debate about if lowriding started in Los Angeles … or if what came out of San José and \u003cem>Lowrider\u003c/em> magazine was so unique it was something new altogether …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa:\u003c/strong> Safely we can say that lowriding originates in the Mexican American experience in the southwestern part of the United States.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>To Ulloa, where lowriding started doesn’t matter. But why people care does.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>John Ulloa:\u003c/strong> The real question is why are people planting that flag? That’s the deeper question and everybody wants to own history. Especially communities that have historically had their histories systematically erased, swept under the rug, ignored, altered, unheard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music in the clear for a few seconds and then fades)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Sebastian, Lowriding has such a fascinating history in this state. And while we can celebrate that it was born here, it hasn’t always been accepted here. Can you explain how lowriding first became criminalized?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>If we go back to the pachucos in the 1940s, they were surrounded by military personnel in Los Angeles waiting to leave to fight in World War II. And the presence of pachucos did not sit well with them. They thought zoot suits were unpatriotic … a sign of gang affiliation. And that’s a narrative that the local press really fed into.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>There were a series of violent clashes where off-duty servicemen, police and white civilians attacked the pachucos, known as the Zoot Suit Riots. Anyone caught by the mob were stripped of their zoot suits and beaten. That’s where we start to see pachuco culture become targeted by police. Racial profiling is happening. And it extends to people driving lowriders. This criminalization of lowriding would play out for decades to come.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>In 1982, the state of California passed a law that allowed cities to implement cruising bans … over concerns about traffic, noise and crime. It also set limits on how much a car could be lowered. And then Soon after that cities like Sacramento, Fresno, L.A. and San José all had cruising bans on the books. What happened to the community in those places?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>The culture didn’t go anywhere, but people did get creative. People kept lowriding, eventually car shows started happening. These were sanctioned events where the lowriding community could still gather. But ultimately, activists started working to change things. And it worked! Just last year, California passed AB 436, a law that overturns the cruising bans, and lifts that prohibition on how low cars can go.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We’re still seeing how it all plays out on the local level, but this last May, East San José had their first lowrider event since the ban was lifted for Cinco de Mayo. And people I spoke with there were optimistic about the future. And they were really happy to be there that day to share in the community and culture. They said finally we’re able to do this again!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli. Thanks for your reporting on this one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>You’re welcome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>(Music with trumpets begins)\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>KQED’s podcast The Bay has an excellent episode from when the cruising ban was lifted last year, that gets a lot more into how it was criminalized. It’s called “\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11966254/california-lifts-decades-old-ban-on-lowrider-cruising\">California Lifts Decades-Old Ban on Lowrider Cruising.\u003c/a>” We’ll link to it in our show notes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Also in our show notes is a link to the web story for this Bay Curious podcast episode — check it out for some awesome photos of that lowrider car show our intern Ana went to, along with several videos KQED has produced about lowriders over the years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. If you like what we’re doing here at Bay Curious, please consider becoming a KQED member today. Learn more at \u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/donate\">KQED.org/donate\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>This episode was produced by Ana De Almeida Amaral, Amanda Font, Christopher Beale, and me Olivia Allen-Price. Special thanks to Katrina Schwartz, Katie Sprenger, Jen Chien, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan and the whole KQED Family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>I’m Olivia Allen-Price … hoping you have a wonderful week. Bye!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/12001199/the-provocative-and-flamboyant-origins-of-lowriding","authors":["11764"],"programs":["news_33523"],"series":["news_17986"],"categories":["news_223","news_31795","news_8"],"tags":["news_32662","news_18426","news_27626","news_29792"],"featImg":"news_12001109","label":"news_33523"},"news_12000061":{"type":"posts","id":"news_12000061","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"12000061","score":null,"sort":[1723716055000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"pretty-but-not-nice-californias-invasive-ice-plant","title":"Pretty, but Not 'Nice': California's Invasive Ice Plant","publishDate":1723716055,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Pretty, but Not ‘Nice’: California’s Invasive Ice Plant | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":33523,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ice plant has many monikers: \u003cem>Carpobrotus edulis\u003c/em>, highway ice plant or simply, sour fig. If you’ve ever set eyes on a California beach, even from a distance, you’ve seen it. The fleshy green succulent has finger-like, three-sided leaves. It blooms with purple and yellow flowers in the spring. Most agree it’s a pretty plant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But this ubiquitous coastal plant has a dark side. It’s an invasive species that blankets dune landscapes, squeezing out native plants and critters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[baycuriouspodcastinfo]\u003c/span>Wetland ecologist Lorraine Parsons has a joke about invasive species: “Does that plant species play nicely in the sandbox?” she told me while observing rolling dunes covered with ice plant at Point Reyes National Seashore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The answer for this succulent is a decisive “no.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Carpobrotus edulis\u003c/em> competes with other plants for basic resources like\u003ca href=\"https://www.calflora.org/app/taxon?crn=1660\"> light, water and space\u003c/a>. And it usually wins.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After KQED listener Tom McMahon moved here in 2016, he was surprised to learn that the existence of ice plant in California barely predates the state’s railroads and highways.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But over the past century, the succulent has blanketed some of California’s most beautiful seaside places.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s part of my expectation of what the Pacific coast is,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>McMahon wanted to know how the freeway plant got here in the first place, so he asked Bay Curious to look into its origin story. He also wanted to know about other invasive plants that don’t “play nice” with California natives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>The beach invader\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>From Crescent City to San Diego, ice plant can be seen in some of California’s most iconic coastal areas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At Point Reyes National Seashore, there are miles and miles of it, despite the fact that park staff have been organizing removal events to control it for 25 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At one recent work party in June, around 10 employees and volunteers tore out ice plant just north of the lighthouse. Parsons said they chose the area because it wasn’t completely overrun, and therefore, there’s still hope that the sparse populations of native plants can bounce back after the removal of ice plant and European beach grass.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Parsons’ coworkers worked their way along the ground on their hands and knees, pulling out long strands of ice plant. They opted for a manual removal method rather than using herbicide, which would have affected other plants and water sources.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11990217\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11990217\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-13-BL_qut.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-13-BL_qut.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-13-BL_qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-13-BL_qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-13-BL_qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-13-BL_qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Francesca Dezza Parada (left) and Celeste Chavez, bilingual environmental educators with the Point Reyes National Seashore Association, remove ice plant (Carpobrotus edulis), an invasive species from South Africa, from a section of dunes at Point Reyes National Seashore on June 4. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Because it grows in long, crawling strands, fellow weed killers have been known to enjoy friendly competition over who can remove the longest strand of ice plant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You’ll end up with something as long as your body and proudly hold it up like a big fish,” park ranger Sierra Frisbie said with a laugh.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11990225\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11990225\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-67-BL_qut.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-67-BL_qut.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-67-BL_qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-67-BL_qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-67-BL_qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-67-BL_qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">National Park Service ranger Sierra Frisbie (left) and biological science technician Miriam Golding look at native plans in an area where ice plant (Carpobrotus edulis), an invasive species from South Africa, was removed at Point Reyes National Seashore on June 4. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>While the beach backdrop at Point Reyes is gorgeous, and the weed crusaders are having a good time, long-term ice plant eradication here is a permanent management problem.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It all started, Parsons said, when the plant was intentionally sown here in the early to mid-1900s as a way to keep dunes from moving into nearby pastures. Sandy dune ecosystems naturally shift, and ice plant helps hold them in place by setting down roots along viney, ground-hugging stems.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ice plant also grows fast — about three feet laterally a year. So whenever ice plant shows up, it can pretty quickly form a dense carpet, holding the soil together underneath.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After decades of growth at Point Reyes, Parsons said, about 60 percent of the coastal area has been taken over by ice plant and another invasive — the equally pernicious European beach grass.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In this hillside near a beach just north of the lighthouse, Parsons’ team is trying to make space for the native\u003ca href=\"https://www.fws.gov/species/tidestroms-lupine-lupinus-tidestromii\"> Tidestrom’s Lupine\u003c/a>, which is at risk of going extinct.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The seeds of the lupine, another low-to-the-ground dune-lover with lavender flowers, are being eaten by mice, which have great cover in the nearby ice plant and beach grass.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>“\u003c/strong>Native deer mice come, and they literally clip off the seams that have the seed on it, and they tug them off. And that’s like a food source for them,” Parsons said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The decline of native plants has a ripple effect on other wildlife. For example, another plant here, the\u003ca href=\"https://calscape.org/Monardella-undulata-(Curlyleaf-Monardella)\"> Curlyleaf Monardella\u003c/a>, is a primary nectar source for the endangered\u003ca href=\"https://www.fws.gov/species/myrtles-silverspot-butterfly-speyeria-zerene-myrtleae\"> Myrtle’s Silverspot\u003c/a> butterfly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11990859\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11990859\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-105-BL.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1284\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-105-BL.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-105-BL-800x535.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-105-BL-1020x682.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-105-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-105-BL-1536x1027.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Native plants grow in a section of dunes at Point Reyes National Seashore on June 4, 2024, that has been cleared of an invasive ice plant. The top row from left to right: curly-leaved Monardella (Monardella sinuata ssp. nigrescens), coast Indian paintbrush (Castilleja affinis) and beach layia (Layia carnosa). The bottom row from left to right are: mock heather (Ericameria ericoides), Tidestrom’s lupine (Lupinus tidestromii) and California poppy (Eschscholzia californica). This California poppy is the state flower. It’s very common around California, but usually, the flower is solid orange. The ones on the dunes tend to be much more yellow. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>And birds such as the Western Snowy Plover, which are already\u003ca href=\"https://ecos.fws.gov/ecp/species/8035\"> threatened\u003c/a>, are also made vulnerable by the nearby ice plant and beach grass. The short, white-bellied shorebird nests right in the sand on the beach. Their predators, ravens and coyotes, hide out in the thick cover of the invasives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It makes it easier for them to kind of sneak up on the nest,” Parsons said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Carpobrotus edulis\u003c/em> can also change the microbiota of the soil, making it less favorable for native plants even after ice plant is removed. So Parsons says removing an area infested by ice plants can just make space for “secondary invaders, instead of luring native flora back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For all those reasons, the staff at Point Reyes National Seashore choose their battles wisely when deciding which dune habitat to restore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re not going to get rid of all this ice plant,” Parsons said, so they choose areas that aren’t completely overrun. “Because, in a sense, you get more bang for your buck … It’s a lot easier to reestablish a native community.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Ice plant’s origins\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Today, ice plant blankets the California coastline and can also be seen in residential home gardens (where it is more welcome as an ornamental or lawn substitute).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Carpobrotus edulis\u003c/em> is not just a problem in California, though. It’s everywhere: coastal Italy, Spain, Argentina and Australia.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ever since people have been buying plants and gardening, plants have been traded across international borders, UC Santa Barbara ecology professor\u003ca href=\"https://www.eemb.ucsb.edu/people/faculty/dantonio\"> Carla D’Antonio said\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“People take plants with them when they go places. When the Spaniards came here, they had a whole array of species,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ice plant first came from South Africa, probably in the 1930s, according to D’Antonio.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11990222\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11990222\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-45-BL_qut.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-45-BL_qut.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-45-BL_qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-45-BL_qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-45-BL_qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-45-BL_qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Wetland biologist Lorraine Parsons removes ice plant (Carpobrotus edulis), an invasive species from South Africa, from a section of Point Reyes National Seashore on June 4. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Caltrans and other transportation engineers are\u003ca href=\"https://wildlife.ca.gov/Conservation/Plants/Dont-Plant-Me/Iceplant\"> widely reported\u003c/a> to have planted it around highways, railroads and other landscapes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was planted along railroads to stabilize blowing sand,” D’Antonio said. “It’s probably pretty good at stopping cars that are out of control, you know, and stopping erosion of cliff sides or bank sides onto those highways.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There was a turning point with ice plant in the 1980s and ’90s, D’Antonio said, when natural area managers started not wanting the plant around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“People were noticing that they were losing some of their beautiful…endemic coastal poppies and other things because \u003cem>Carpobrotus\u003c/em> was growing everywhere,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Other invasives\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Certainly, ice plant isn’t the only invasive plant crowding out California natives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.cal-ipc.org/plants/profile/arundo-donax-profile/\">\u003cem>Arundo Donax\u003c/em>\u003c/a>, a giant reed used for roofing material and musical instruments,\u003ca href=\"https://cisr.ucr.edu/invasive-species/giant-reed\"> was brought to California in the early 1800s\u003c/a>. \u003cem>Arundo Donax\u003c/em> is particularly troublesome. It turns river areas into fuel for fires and grows back even stronger after a blaze. Tens of millions of public dollars have been used to fight its spread.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While thousands of non-native plants have been introduced into California — some of them brought intentionally, others accidentally — most of them don’t alter their environments as much as Arundo and ice plant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It isn’t that many of them that are really causing these big changes,” D’Antonio said. “But the ones that do definitely are changing the resources and the values that we want to have in our ecosystems.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11990216\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11990216\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-01-BL_qut.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-01-BL_qut.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-01-BL_qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-01-BL_qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-01-BL_qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-01-BL_qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Ice plant (Carpobrotus edulis), an invasive species from South Africa, grows at Point Reyes National Seashore on June 4. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Preventing ‘invasions’\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The good news is that in the past few decades, ecologists have been trying to establish some boundaries on international plant exchange, D’Antonio said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And more locally, park rangers are using a ‘boots on the ground’ approach to preventing the spread of invasives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rachel Kesel, a senior environmental scientist with California State Parks, is an evangelist for catching plant invaders before they take over entire coastlines. She’s trained park staff all over the Bay Area in early detection work, teaching them how to identify, map, and get rid of invasive plants before they become unmanageable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11990219\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11990219\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-11-BL_qut.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-11-BL_qut.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-11-BL_qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-11-BL_qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-11-BL_qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-11-BL_qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">National Park Service ranger Sierra Frisbie removes ice plant (Carpobrotus edulis), an invasive species from South Africa, from a section of Point Reyes National Seashore on June 4. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>One morning in June, Kesel trained a handful of park managers and volunteers at Armstrong Redwoods State Natural Reserve in the Russian River area of Sonoma County.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She warned them about a wispy green weed called panic veldt grass or\u003ca href=\"https://www.cal-ipc.org/plants/profile/ehrharta-erecta-profile/\"> \u003cem>Ehrharta erect\u003c/em>a\u003c/a>, which she saw crop up all over Mt. Tam when she worked there for the better part of a decade. She doesn’t want the grass to invade these redwoods.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It really is probably the highest priority for what to look for,” she said to the group. “It often comes in on our vehicles, mud in our tires and that sort of thing, out of our neighborhoods.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although this little blade of grass looks harmless, Kesel takes it very seriously. It has the potential to take over the forest floor; it can grow in just 2% light as well as on a sunny, soil-deprived beach. The veldt grass grows between other plants, which makes it look messy and hard to pull out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12000167\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12000167\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Kesel_grass.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1475\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Kesel_grass.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Kesel_grass-800x590.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Kesel_grass-1020x752.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Kesel_grass-160x118.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Kesel_grass-1536x1133.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Kesel_grass-1920x1416.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Rachel Kesel, senior environmental scientist for California State Parks, holds up a piece of invasive panic veldtgrass or Ehrharta erecta, in Armstrong Redwoods State Natural Reserve during a training with local park workers. \u003ccite>(Pauline Bartolone/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“It would really change that iconic look of the understory floor and kind of what people are coming into an old-growth redwood forest to see,” Kesel said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hunting down and rooting out invasives may seem like a lot of effort. But to anyone who stands among the redwoods on a hot day and soaks in the beauty of the clover-shaped sorrel on the forest floor, it probably doesn’t seem like too much to ask.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After all, we all manage weeds in our own yards, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you want to get nerdy about the invasive plants in your area, go to \u003ca href=\"https://www.cal-ipc.org/\">Cal-IPC.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you’re inspired to plant California natives in your neighborhood, \u003ca href=\"https://calscape.org/\">Calscape offers design ideas and resources\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> When you think of quintessential California experiences, driving down Highway 1 is pretty tough to beat. It was one of the first things Tom McMahon did when he first visited the Bay Area in 2016.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tom McMahon: \u003c/strong>I rented a car, and I drove from San Francisco down to Seacliff. And on the way, I actually stopped along a few spots. And one of them was like, Poplar Beach. And, you know, one of the things that kind of jumped out was all these green plants with the purple and yellow flowers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> What he was seeing was ice plant — a fleshy green succulent with finger-like, three-sided leaves. It grows low to the ground and spreads out over large areas, like a carpet. In spring its pink, purple, or yellow flowers burst open — its petals spreading like little fireworks. Quite frankly, it’s gorgeous! But it’s got a dark side. McMahon started studying plants with his 5-year-old daughter recently and learned this charming-looking plant is invasive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tom McMahon:\u003c/strong> And this has been something that I’ve seen everywhere, and it’s part of my expectation of what the Pacific coast is.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> McMahon lives in California now, and he and his daughter go on walks and see ice plant all over — it’s often used in landscaping in place of grass. She’s been asking: “If it’s invasive, why did someone put it there?” and McMahon doesn’t have a great answer. So, he asked Bay Curious for an assist.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tom McMahon:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I’d like to know, why are the ice plants here, who brought them here? What was their purpose? And what other things do we see every day that are actually invasive and potentially harming our local plant life and wildlife?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> I’m Olivia Allen-Price. This week on Bay Curious, we’re delving into the world of invasive plants. We’ll answer McMahon’s questions about ice plant and explore a few other troublesome flora. That’s all just head, stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>[SPONSOR MESSAGE]\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> To answer Tom McMahon’s questions about ice plant and other notorious invasives. KQED producer Pauline Bartolone got really in the weeds, hardy har har. Enjoy the ride.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>Ice plant has many monikers … Carpobrotus edulis, highway ice plant, or simply sour fig. If you’ve ever set eyes on a California beach, even from a distance, you’ve seen it. From as far north as Crescent City all the way down to San Diego. When it comes to invasive species in California, ice plant is iconic. And so are the areas it invades.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[Wind sounds and crashing waves]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/strong> Like the Point Reyes seashore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003cstrong>Lorraine Parsons: \u003c/strong>So that’s all ice plant! \u003cem>[laughs]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>Oh wow, okay, that whole ridge …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lorraine Parsons: \u003c/strong>That whole ridge is ice plant over there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>I went to the rolling dunes of Point Reyes to meet Lorraine Parsons. She’s a wetland ecologist with the National Seashore. There are miles and miles of ice plant here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lorraine Parsons:\u003c/strong> If you drive Sir Francis Drake all the way out to the lighthouse and you look out toward the ocean, many areas are just this dense carpet of ice plant and literally no other plant species.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>Parsons is here today with around 10 employees and volunteers to tear out ice plant uphill from a beach near the lighthouse. Here, they still have a chance to protect some vulnerable wildlife.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lorraine Parsons:\u003c/strong> And we still have some native plant species, but they’re being pushed out by the ice plant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/strong> National seashore staff have been organizing work parties like this for 25 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[sound of plants rustling, breaking]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Danna Ojeda:\u003c/strong> Oh, it’s a pretty easy plant to pull.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>Biotechnician Danna Ojeda is on her hands and knees ripping out ice plant, drawing her hand back like she’s pulling a plug out of a wall. Technically, you could kill ice plant with herbicide, but that can affect other plants and water sources. Ojeda says the trickiest part about tearing it out is just making sure you don’t remove other plants too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Danna Ojeda:\u003c/strong> So you just pull it, and since it’s sand, it comes right off. Just make sure the roots don’t go in between any of the plants so you don’t accidentally bring them up to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>Park ranger Sierra Frisbie adds her ice plant debris to a big pile.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sierra Frisbie: \u003c/strong>During a volunteer event, we try to have a competition of who can get the longest piece of ice plant and you’ll end up with something, you know, as long as your body and proudly hold it up like a big fish or something. It’s kinda your catch of the day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>While it’s a gorgeous sunny day out here, this is a beast of a project and a permanent management problem. Parsons says ice plant was actually planted here in the early to mid-1900s as a way to keep dunes, which naturally shift, from moving into nearby pastures. Ice plant is a good soil stabilizer. But it grows laterally about three feet a year. So after decades of growth, Parsons says, about 60 percent of the coastal area in Point Reyes has been taken over by ice plant and another invasive — the equally pernicious European beach grass. They’re struggling to get rid of it in areas where endangered native plants like Tidestrom’s lupine are at risk of going extinct.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lorraine Parsons: \u003c/strong>So this is the Tidestrom’s lupine here … Again, this is a short-lived perennial plant species in the pea family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>Tidestrom’s lupine is another low-to-the-ground beach-loving plant with little lavender flowers. But here, its seeds are being eaten by mice, which hide out in the nearby ice plant and European beach grass. In many areas, it hasn’t been growing back\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lorraine Parsons: \u003c/strong>It has historically stretched from Sonoma County near Goat Rock all the way down to Monterey. And, you know, over that time, populations have been lost.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>The decline of native plants has a ripple effect on other wildlife in an ecosystem. For example, another plant here, the Curlyleaf Monardella, is a primary nectar source for an endangered butterfly. And birds such as the snowy plover, a tiny white-bellied thing, are also threatened. They nest right in the sand on the beach. And the nearby ice plant and beach grass provide cover for their predators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"margin: 0px;padding: 0px\">\u003cstrong>Lorraine Parsons:\u003c/strong> So, like, ravens can be in there obviously like coyotes, other animals like that, it makes it easier for them to kind of sneak up on the nest there.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>And the bad news about ice plant gets worse. The invasive can also change the soil conditions, so it is less favorable for native plants even after ice plant is removed. For all those reasons, when it comes to these eradication parties, Parsons says they have to choose their battles wisely. They don’t even bother with the completely overrun areas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lorraine Parsons:\u003c/strong> We realize we’re not going to get rid of all this beach grass, and we’re not going to get rid of all this ice plant. So I think we’re just focusing on these like moderately to sparsely invaded areas because, in a sense, you get more bang for your buck. You’ve already got the native plants here. It’s a lot easier to get, to reestablish a native community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>Today, ice plant blankets the California coastline. It’s not just a problem in California, though, it’s everywhere: coastal Italy, Spain, Argentina, Australia. UC Santa Barbara ecology professor Carla D’Antonio says that’s not surprising.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carla D’Antonio: \u003c/strong>People take plants with them when they go places. When the Spaniards came here, they had a whole array of species that they brought.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>D’Antonio says there isn’t a lot of documentation about the beginnings of Carpobrotus edulis in the U.S. but there’s a consensus about its origin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carla D’Antonio: \u003c/strong>It came from South Africa. It appears to have come probably, in the 1930s. It was planted along railroads to stabilize blowing sand. It was planted along highways. It’s probably pretty good at stopping cars that are out of control, you know, and stopping erosion of cliff sides or bank sides onto those highways.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/strong> Ice plant’s long and viny stems stay close to the ground as they grow, and set down many different roots along the way. The tangley mat keeps soil together underneath. That’s why Caltrans and other engineers planted it around highways, railroads and other landscapes. But when managers of natural areas like Asilomar in Monterey started getting concerned about ice plant, D’Antonio decided to do her doctoral research on it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carla D’Antonio: \u003c/strong>Awareness really started to grow that this thing was showing up everywhere. People were noticing that they were losing some of their beautiful kind of endemic coastal poppies and other things because carpobrotus was growing everywhere.\u003cem>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/em>\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nPauline Bartolone:\u003c/strong> Certainly, ice plant isn’t the only non-native plant bent on world domination. Our question asker, Tom McMahon wanted to know about others on the most-wanted list. I’d say Arundo donax would definitely be in that category. The giant reed was brought to California in the early 1800s and used for roofing material and musical instruments. Arundo donax is particularly gnarly, turning river areas into fuel for fire and growing back even stronger after a blaze. Tens of millions of public dollars have been used to fight it. All in all, D’Antonio says, thousands of non-native plants have been introduced into California. Some of them intentionally, others accidentally. Most of them play nice with native plants.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carla D’Antonio:\u003c/strong> So it isn’t that many of them that are really causing these big changes. But the ones that do definitely are changing the resources and the values that we want to have in our ecosystems.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/strong> So how do we stop those world-dominating plants? D’Antonio says for the past few decades, ecologists have been trying to establish some boundaries on international plant exchange. And more locally, park rangers are using boots on the ground approaches to preventing the spread of invasives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel Kesel: \u003c/strong>So I brought a couple of things with me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>People like Rachel Kesel in Sonoma County. The park ranger is an evangelist for catching plant invaders early before they take over entire coastlines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel Kesel: \u003c/strong>So I think everybody probably knows that all folks engaged in land management spend a lot of time and money on invasive plants. And what the early detection of invasive plants approach does is try to shift some of that, hopefully, new investment of time and money that you are already spending to plants that are newer on the landscape.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>Kesel has trained park staff all over the Bay Area to find invasive plants early. Today, she’s in Armstrong Redwoods State Reserve in the Russian River warning a handful of park staff and volunteers about a wispy green weed called panic veldt grass, or Ehrharta erecta.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel Kesel: \u003c/strong>It often comes in on our vehicles, mud in our tires and that sort of thing out of our neighborhoods.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>Kesel takes this little blade of grass very seriously. She saw Ehrharta crop up all over Mt. Tam, where she worked for the better part of a decade. This thing sounds like it could withstand an apocalypse. It can grow on a forest floor in just 2 percent light, or a sunny, soil deprived beach. It grows between other plants, which makes it hard to pull out. And Kesel says it just looks messy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel Kesel: \u003c/strong>It would really change that iconic look of the understory floor and kind of what people are coming into an old-growth redwood forest to see.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>[footsteps]\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>Kesel takes a couple of park personnel out on a detection walk, to show them how they can identify the plant, and map it, so scientists can track its footprint over time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel Kesel:\u003c/strong> Go, team! Now, when I come upon something like this, I’m always gonna take a twirl around it…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/strong> Is that it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel Kesel:\u003c/strong> No, that is a melaka.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/strong> Okay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel Kesel:\u003c/strong> It’s a native grass, thankfully. But. Good eye, you’re noticing grasses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>Apparently, I can’t tell the difference between blades of grass, but Kesel seems to have developed a hawk eye for this work. When we did come across the pesky blades of grass, she broke out a plastic bag to transport the undesirables.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel Kesel:\u003c/strong> I know I look paranoid, but it is dropping its seed, which is why I have it in the bag.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[rustling of plastic bag]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel Kesel:\u003c/strong> So now you go in the bag, my friend …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>Then, she holds up the blade of grass like it’s a contaminated Q-tip so the park workers can get a closer look. She takes out her mini magnifying glass.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel Kesel:\u003c/strong> So, all right. If we look at the base. Of course, this one isn’t very red because, like I said, color is a fickle character.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/strong> Finally, she shows the park workers how to map other invasives using a program on her phone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel Kesel: \u003c/strong>Go to my location. Why are you being so dumb? I talk back to my device a lot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/strong> During this trip, part of me felt like, wow, what a lot of effort to remove just a little blade of grass. But on the way out of Armstrong that day, I took a moment to stand under the shade of the redwoods and soak in the beauty. The forest floor was covered in this really pretty, delicate-looking sorrel. It’s a clover-like plant a few inches off the ground. That’s when it struck me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/strong> I can really see why people want to preserve this place. The air is so still and soft, and I imagine much cooler than outside this redwood forest. I could spend all day here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>When it comes to preserving that feeling of the redwoods, managing invasives doesn’t seem like too much to ask. After all, we all manage weeds in our own yards, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> That story was produced by Pauline Bartolone. Big thanks to Tom McMahon and his five-year-old daughter for the question. And to the California invasive plant council for their expertise on this story. If you want to learn more about invasive plants or get involved in one of those removal work parties – we’ve got a lot of resources for you online at BayCurious.org. We’ll drop a link in our show notes too. Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. You can support our show by becoming a member! Give today at donate.kqed.org.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bay Curious is made by Amanda Font, Olivia Allen-Price, Christopher Beale, Ana De Almeida Amaral. Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan and the whole KQED family. I’m Olivia Allen-Price, thank you for listening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"California's ubiquitous coastal plant has a dark side: It's an invasive species that blankets dune landscapes, squeezing out native plants and critters.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1723748354,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":true,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":124,"wordCount":4768},"headData":{"title":"Pretty, but Not 'Nice': California's Invasive Ice Plant | KQED","description":"California's ubiquitous coastal plant has a dark side: It's an invasive species that blankets dune landscapes, squeezing out native plants and critters.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Pretty, but Not 'Nice': California's Invasive Ice Plant","datePublished":"2024-08-15T03:00:55-07:00","dateModified":"2024-08-15T11:59:14-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC2157052942.mp3","sticky":false,"nprStoryId":"kqed-12000061","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/12000061/pretty-but-not-nice-californias-invasive-ice-plant","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ice plant has many monikers: \u003cem>Carpobrotus edulis\u003c/em>, highway ice plant or simply, sour fig. If you’ve ever set eyes on a California beach, even from a distance, you’ve seen it. The fleshy green succulent has finger-like, three-sided leaves. It blooms with purple and yellow flowers in the spring. Most agree it’s a pretty plant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But this ubiquitous coastal plant has a dark side. It’s an invasive species that blankets dune landscapes, squeezing out native plants and critters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" loading=\"lazy\" />\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Bay Curious\u003c/a> is a podcast that answers your questions about the Bay Area.\n Subscribe on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>,\n \u003ca href=\"http://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">NPR One\u003c/a> or your favorite podcast platform.\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/span>Wetland ecologist Lorraine Parsons has a joke about invasive species: “Does that plant species play nicely in the sandbox?” she told me while observing rolling dunes covered with ice plant at Point Reyes National Seashore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The answer for this succulent is a decisive “no.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Carpobrotus edulis\u003c/em> competes with other plants for basic resources like\u003ca href=\"https://www.calflora.org/app/taxon?crn=1660\"> light, water and space\u003c/a>. And it usually wins.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After KQED listener Tom McMahon moved here in 2016, he was surprised to learn that the existence of ice plant in California barely predates the state’s railroads and highways.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But over the past century, the succulent has blanketed some of California’s most beautiful seaside places.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s part of my expectation of what the Pacific coast is,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>McMahon wanted to know how the freeway plant got here in the first place, so he asked Bay Curious to look into its origin story. He also wanted to know about other invasive plants that don’t “play nice” with California natives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cb>The beach invader\u003c/b>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>From Crescent City to San Diego, ice plant can be seen in some of California’s most iconic coastal areas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At Point Reyes National Seashore, there are miles and miles of it, despite the fact that park staff have been organizing removal events to control it for 25 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At one recent work party in June, around 10 employees and volunteers tore out ice plant just north of the lighthouse. Parsons said they chose the area because it wasn’t completely overrun, and therefore, there’s still hope that the sparse populations of native plants can bounce back after the removal of ice plant and European beach grass.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Parsons’ coworkers worked their way along the ground on their hands and knees, pulling out long strands of ice plant. They opted for a manual removal method rather than using herbicide, which would have affected other plants and water sources.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11990217\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11990217\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-13-BL_qut.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-13-BL_qut.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-13-BL_qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-13-BL_qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-13-BL_qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-13-BL_qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Francesca Dezza Parada (left) and Celeste Chavez, bilingual environmental educators with the Point Reyes National Seashore Association, remove ice plant (Carpobrotus edulis), an invasive species from South Africa, from a section of dunes at Point Reyes National Seashore on June 4. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Because it grows in long, crawling strands, fellow weed killers have been known to enjoy friendly competition over who can remove the longest strand of ice plant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You’ll end up with something as long as your body and proudly hold it up like a big fish,” park ranger Sierra Frisbie said with a laugh.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11990225\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11990225\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-67-BL_qut.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-67-BL_qut.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-67-BL_qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-67-BL_qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-67-BL_qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-67-BL_qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">National Park Service ranger Sierra Frisbie (left) and biological science technician Miriam Golding look at native plans in an area where ice plant (Carpobrotus edulis), an invasive species from South Africa, was removed at Point Reyes National Seashore on June 4. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>While the beach backdrop at Point Reyes is gorgeous, and the weed crusaders are having a good time, long-term ice plant eradication here is a permanent management problem.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It all started, Parsons said, when the plant was intentionally sown here in the early to mid-1900s as a way to keep dunes from moving into nearby pastures. Sandy dune ecosystems naturally shift, and ice plant helps hold them in place by setting down roots along viney, ground-hugging stems.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ice plant also grows fast — about three feet laterally a year. So whenever ice plant shows up, it can pretty quickly form a dense carpet, holding the soil together underneath.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After decades of growth at Point Reyes, Parsons said, about 60 percent of the coastal area has been taken over by ice plant and another invasive — the equally pernicious European beach grass.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In this hillside near a beach just north of the lighthouse, Parsons’ team is trying to make space for the native\u003ca href=\"https://www.fws.gov/species/tidestroms-lupine-lupinus-tidestromii\"> Tidestrom’s Lupine\u003c/a>, which is at risk of going extinct.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The seeds of the lupine, another low-to-the-ground dune-lover with lavender flowers, are being eaten by mice, which have great cover in the nearby ice plant and beach grass.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>“\u003c/strong>Native deer mice come, and they literally clip off the seams that have the seed on it, and they tug them off. And that’s like a food source for them,” Parsons said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The decline of native plants has a ripple effect on other wildlife. For example, another plant here, the\u003ca href=\"https://calscape.org/Monardella-undulata-(Curlyleaf-Monardella)\"> Curlyleaf Monardella\u003c/a>, is a primary nectar source for the endangered\u003ca href=\"https://www.fws.gov/species/myrtles-silverspot-butterfly-speyeria-zerene-myrtleae\"> Myrtle’s Silverspot\u003c/a> butterfly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11990859\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11990859\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-105-BL.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1284\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-105-BL.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-105-BL-800x535.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-105-BL-1020x682.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-105-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-105-BL-1536x1027.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Native plants grow in a section of dunes at Point Reyes National Seashore on June 4, 2024, that has been cleared of an invasive ice plant. The top row from left to right: curly-leaved Monardella (Monardella sinuata ssp. nigrescens), coast Indian paintbrush (Castilleja affinis) and beach layia (Layia carnosa). The bottom row from left to right are: mock heather (Ericameria ericoides), Tidestrom’s lupine (Lupinus tidestromii) and California poppy (Eschscholzia californica). This California poppy is the state flower. It’s very common around California, but usually, the flower is solid orange. The ones on the dunes tend to be much more yellow. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>And birds such as the Western Snowy Plover, which are already\u003ca href=\"https://ecos.fws.gov/ecp/species/8035\"> threatened\u003c/a>, are also made vulnerable by the nearby ice plant and beach grass. The short, white-bellied shorebird nests right in the sand on the beach. Their predators, ravens and coyotes, hide out in the thick cover of the invasives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It makes it easier for them to kind of sneak up on the nest,” Parsons said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Carpobrotus edulis\u003c/em> can also change the microbiota of the soil, making it less favorable for native plants even after ice plant is removed. So Parsons says removing an area infested by ice plants can just make space for “secondary invaders, instead of luring native flora back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For all those reasons, the staff at Point Reyes National Seashore choose their battles wisely when deciding which dune habitat to restore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re not going to get rid of all this ice plant,” Parsons said, so they choose areas that aren’t completely overrun. “Because, in a sense, you get more bang for your buck … It’s a lot easier to reestablish a native community.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Ice plant’s origins\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Today, ice plant blankets the California coastline and can also be seen in residential home gardens (where it is more welcome as an ornamental or lawn substitute).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Carpobrotus edulis\u003c/em> is not just a problem in California, though. It’s everywhere: coastal Italy, Spain, Argentina and Australia.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ever since people have been buying plants and gardening, plants have been traded across international borders, UC Santa Barbara ecology professor\u003ca href=\"https://www.eemb.ucsb.edu/people/faculty/dantonio\"> Carla D’Antonio said\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“People take plants with them when they go places. When the Spaniards came here, they had a whole array of species,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ice plant first came from South Africa, probably in the 1930s, according to D’Antonio.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11990222\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11990222\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-45-BL_qut.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-45-BL_qut.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-45-BL_qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-45-BL_qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-45-BL_qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-45-BL_qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Wetland biologist Lorraine Parsons removes ice plant (Carpobrotus edulis), an invasive species from South Africa, from a section of Point Reyes National Seashore on June 4. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Caltrans and other transportation engineers are\u003ca href=\"https://wildlife.ca.gov/Conservation/Plants/Dont-Plant-Me/Iceplant\"> widely reported\u003c/a> to have planted it around highways, railroads and other landscapes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was planted along railroads to stabilize blowing sand,” D’Antonio said. “It’s probably pretty good at stopping cars that are out of control, you know, and stopping erosion of cliff sides or bank sides onto those highways.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There was a turning point with ice plant in the 1980s and ’90s, D’Antonio said, when natural area managers started not wanting the plant around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“People were noticing that they were losing some of their beautiful…endemic coastal poppies and other things because \u003cem>Carpobrotus\u003c/em> was growing everywhere,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Other invasives\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Certainly, ice plant isn’t the only invasive plant crowding out California natives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.cal-ipc.org/plants/profile/arundo-donax-profile/\">\u003cem>Arundo Donax\u003c/em>\u003c/a>, a giant reed used for roofing material and musical instruments,\u003ca href=\"https://cisr.ucr.edu/invasive-species/giant-reed\"> was brought to California in the early 1800s\u003c/a>. \u003cem>Arundo Donax\u003c/em> is particularly troublesome. It turns river areas into fuel for fires and grows back even stronger after a blaze. Tens of millions of public dollars have been used to fight its spread.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While thousands of non-native plants have been introduced into California — some of them brought intentionally, others accidentally — most of them don’t alter their environments as much as Arundo and ice plant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It isn’t that many of them that are really causing these big changes,” D’Antonio said. “But the ones that do definitely are changing the resources and the values that we want to have in our ecosystems.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11990216\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11990216\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-01-BL_qut.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-01-BL_qut.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-01-BL_qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-01-BL_qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-01-BL_qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-01-BL_qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Ice plant (Carpobrotus edulis), an invasive species from South Africa, grows at Point Reyes National Seashore on June 4. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Preventing ‘invasions’\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The good news is that in the past few decades, ecologists have been trying to establish some boundaries on international plant exchange, D’Antonio said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And more locally, park rangers are using a ‘boots on the ground’ approach to preventing the spread of invasives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rachel Kesel, a senior environmental scientist with California State Parks, is an evangelist for catching plant invaders before they take over entire coastlines. She’s trained park staff all over the Bay Area in early detection work, teaching them how to identify, map, and get rid of invasive plants before they become unmanageable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11990219\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11990219\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-11-BL_qut.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-11-BL_qut.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-11-BL_qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-11-BL_qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-11-BL_qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240604-InvasiveIcePlant-11-BL_qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">National Park Service ranger Sierra Frisbie removes ice plant (Carpobrotus edulis), an invasive species from South Africa, from a section of Point Reyes National Seashore on June 4. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>One morning in June, Kesel trained a handful of park managers and volunteers at Armstrong Redwoods State Natural Reserve in the Russian River area of Sonoma County.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She warned them about a wispy green weed called panic veldt grass or\u003ca href=\"https://www.cal-ipc.org/plants/profile/ehrharta-erecta-profile/\"> \u003cem>Ehrharta erect\u003c/em>a\u003c/a>, which she saw crop up all over Mt. Tam when she worked there for the better part of a decade. She doesn’t want the grass to invade these redwoods.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It really is probably the highest priority for what to look for,” she said to the group. “It often comes in on our vehicles, mud in our tires and that sort of thing, out of our neighborhoods.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although this little blade of grass looks harmless, Kesel takes it very seriously. It has the potential to take over the forest floor; it can grow in just 2% light as well as on a sunny, soil-deprived beach. The veldt grass grows between other plants, which makes it look messy and hard to pull out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12000167\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12000167\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Kesel_grass.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1475\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Kesel_grass.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Kesel_grass-800x590.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Kesel_grass-1020x752.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Kesel_grass-160x118.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Kesel_grass-1536x1133.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Kesel_grass-1920x1416.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Rachel Kesel, senior environmental scientist for California State Parks, holds up a piece of invasive panic veldtgrass or Ehrharta erecta, in Armstrong Redwoods State Natural Reserve during a training with local park workers. \u003ccite>(Pauline Bartolone/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“It would really change that iconic look of the understory floor and kind of what people are coming into an old-growth redwood forest to see,” Kesel said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hunting down and rooting out invasives may seem like a lot of effort. But to anyone who stands among the redwoods on a hot day and soaks in the beauty of the clover-shaped sorrel on the forest floor, it probably doesn’t seem like too much to ask.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After all, we all manage weeds in our own yards, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you want to get nerdy about the invasive plants in your area, go to \u003ca href=\"https://www.cal-ipc.org/\">Cal-IPC.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you’re inspired to plant California natives in your neighborhood, \u003ca href=\"https://calscape.org/\">Calscape offers design ideas and resources\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"baycuriousquestion","attributes":{"named":{"label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> When you think of quintessential California experiences, driving down Highway 1 is pretty tough to beat. It was one of the first things Tom McMahon did when he first visited the Bay Area in 2016.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tom McMahon: \u003c/strong>I rented a car, and I drove from San Francisco down to Seacliff. And on the way, I actually stopped along a few spots. And one of them was like, Poplar Beach. And, you know, one of the things that kind of jumped out was all these green plants with the purple and yellow flowers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> What he was seeing was ice plant — a fleshy green succulent with finger-like, three-sided leaves. It grows low to the ground and spreads out over large areas, like a carpet. In spring its pink, purple, or yellow flowers burst open — its petals spreading like little fireworks. Quite frankly, it’s gorgeous! But it’s got a dark side. McMahon started studying plants with his 5-year-old daughter recently and learned this charming-looking plant is invasive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tom McMahon:\u003c/strong> And this has been something that I’ve seen everywhere, and it’s part of my expectation of what the Pacific coast is.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> McMahon lives in California now, and he and his daughter go on walks and see ice plant all over — it’s often used in landscaping in place of grass. She’s been asking: “If it’s invasive, why did someone put it there?” and McMahon doesn’t have a great answer. So, he asked Bay Curious for an assist.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tom McMahon:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I’d like to know, why are the ice plants here, who brought them here? What was their purpose? And what other things do we see every day that are actually invasive and potentially harming our local plant life and wildlife?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> I’m Olivia Allen-Price. This week on Bay Curious, we’re delving into the world of invasive plants. We’ll answer McMahon’s questions about ice plant and explore a few other troublesome flora. That’s all just head, stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>[SPONSOR MESSAGE]\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> To answer Tom McMahon’s questions about ice plant and other notorious invasives. KQED producer Pauline Bartolone got really in the weeds, hardy har har. Enjoy the ride.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>Ice plant has many monikers … Carpobrotus edulis, highway ice plant, or simply sour fig. If you’ve ever set eyes on a California beach, even from a distance, you’ve seen it. From as far north as Crescent City all the way down to San Diego. When it comes to invasive species in California, ice plant is iconic. And so are the areas it invades.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[Wind sounds and crashing waves]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/strong> Like the Point Reyes seashore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003cstrong>Lorraine Parsons: \u003c/strong>So that’s all ice plant! \u003cem>[laughs]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>Oh wow, okay, that whole ridge …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lorraine Parsons: \u003c/strong>That whole ridge is ice plant over there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>I went to the rolling dunes of Point Reyes to meet Lorraine Parsons. She’s a wetland ecologist with the National Seashore. There are miles and miles of ice plant here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lorraine Parsons:\u003c/strong> If you drive Sir Francis Drake all the way out to the lighthouse and you look out toward the ocean, many areas are just this dense carpet of ice plant and literally no other plant species.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>Parsons is here today with around 10 employees and volunteers to tear out ice plant uphill from a beach near the lighthouse. Here, they still have a chance to protect some vulnerable wildlife.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lorraine Parsons:\u003c/strong> And we still have some native plant species, but they’re being pushed out by the ice plant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/strong> National seashore staff have been organizing work parties like this for 25 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[sound of plants rustling, breaking]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Danna Ojeda:\u003c/strong> Oh, it’s a pretty easy plant to pull.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>Biotechnician Danna Ojeda is on her hands and knees ripping out ice plant, drawing her hand back like she’s pulling a plug out of a wall. Technically, you could kill ice plant with herbicide, but that can affect other plants and water sources. Ojeda says the trickiest part about tearing it out is just making sure you don’t remove other plants too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Danna Ojeda:\u003c/strong> So you just pull it, and since it’s sand, it comes right off. Just make sure the roots don’t go in between any of the plants so you don’t accidentally bring them up to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>Park ranger Sierra Frisbie adds her ice plant debris to a big pile.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sierra Frisbie: \u003c/strong>During a volunteer event, we try to have a competition of who can get the longest piece of ice plant and you’ll end up with something, you know, as long as your body and proudly hold it up like a big fish or something. It’s kinda your catch of the day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>While it’s a gorgeous sunny day out here, this is a beast of a project and a permanent management problem. Parsons says ice plant was actually planted here in the early to mid-1900s as a way to keep dunes, which naturally shift, from moving into nearby pastures. Ice plant is a good soil stabilizer. But it grows laterally about three feet a year. So after decades of growth, Parsons says, about 60 percent of the coastal area in Point Reyes has been taken over by ice plant and another invasive — the equally pernicious European beach grass. They’re struggling to get rid of it in areas where endangered native plants like Tidestrom’s lupine are at risk of going extinct.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lorraine Parsons: \u003c/strong>So this is the Tidestrom’s lupine here … Again, this is a short-lived perennial plant species in the pea family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>Tidestrom’s lupine is another low-to-the-ground beach-loving plant with little lavender flowers. But here, its seeds are being eaten by mice, which hide out in the nearby ice plant and European beach grass. In many areas, it hasn’t been growing back\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lorraine Parsons: \u003c/strong>It has historically stretched from Sonoma County near Goat Rock all the way down to Monterey. And, you know, over that time, populations have been lost.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>The decline of native plants has a ripple effect on other wildlife in an ecosystem. For example, another plant here, the Curlyleaf Monardella, is a primary nectar source for an endangered butterfly. And birds such as the snowy plover, a tiny white-bellied thing, are also threatened. They nest right in the sand on the beach. And the nearby ice plant and beach grass provide cover for their predators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"margin: 0px;padding: 0px\">\u003cstrong>Lorraine Parsons:\u003c/strong> So, like, ravens can be in there obviously like coyotes, other animals like that, it makes it easier for them to kind of sneak up on the nest there.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>And the bad news about ice plant gets worse. The invasive can also change the soil conditions, so it is less favorable for native plants even after ice plant is removed. For all those reasons, when it comes to these eradication parties, Parsons says they have to choose their battles wisely. They don’t even bother with the completely overrun areas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lorraine Parsons:\u003c/strong> We realize we’re not going to get rid of all this beach grass, and we’re not going to get rid of all this ice plant. So I think we’re just focusing on these like moderately to sparsely invaded areas because, in a sense, you get more bang for your buck. You’ve already got the native plants here. It’s a lot easier to get, to reestablish a native community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>Today, ice plant blankets the California coastline. It’s not just a problem in California, though, it’s everywhere: coastal Italy, Spain, Argentina, Australia. UC Santa Barbara ecology professor Carla D’Antonio says that’s not surprising.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carla D’Antonio: \u003c/strong>People take plants with them when they go places. When the Spaniards came here, they had a whole array of species that they brought.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>D’Antonio says there isn’t a lot of documentation about the beginnings of Carpobrotus edulis in the U.S. but there’s a consensus about its origin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carla D’Antonio: \u003c/strong>It came from South Africa. It appears to have come probably, in the 1930s. It was planted along railroads to stabilize blowing sand. It was planted along highways. It’s probably pretty good at stopping cars that are out of control, you know, and stopping erosion of cliff sides or bank sides onto those highways.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/strong> Ice plant’s long and viny stems stay close to the ground as they grow, and set down many different roots along the way. The tangley mat keeps soil together underneath. That’s why Caltrans and other engineers planted it around highways, railroads and other landscapes. But when managers of natural areas like Asilomar in Monterey started getting concerned about ice plant, D’Antonio decided to do her doctoral research on it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carla D’Antonio: \u003c/strong>Awareness really started to grow that this thing was showing up everywhere. People were noticing that they were losing some of their beautiful kind of endemic coastal poppies and other things because carpobrotus was growing everywhere.\u003cem>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/em>\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nPauline Bartolone:\u003c/strong> Certainly, ice plant isn’t the only non-native plant bent on world domination. Our question asker, Tom McMahon wanted to know about others on the most-wanted list. I’d say Arundo donax would definitely be in that category. The giant reed was brought to California in the early 1800s and used for roofing material and musical instruments. Arundo donax is particularly gnarly, turning river areas into fuel for fire and growing back even stronger after a blaze. Tens of millions of public dollars have been used to fight it. All in all, D’Antonio says, thousands of non-native plants have been introduced into California. Some of them intentionally, others accidentally. Most of them play nice with native plants.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Carla D’Antonio:\u003c/strong> So it isn’t that many of them that are really causing these big changes. But the ones that do definitely are changing the resources and the values that we want to have in our ecosystems.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/strong> So how do we stop those world-dominating plants? D’Antonio says for the past few decades, ecologists have been trying to establish some boundaries on international plant exchange. And more locally, park rangers are using boots on the ground approaches to preventing the spread of invasives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel Kesel: \u003c/strong>So I brought a couple of things with me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>People like Rachel Kesel in Sonoma County. The park ranger is an evangelist for catching plant invaders early before they take over entire coastlines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel Kesel: \u003c/strong>So I think everybody probably knows that all folks engaged in land management spend a lot of time and money on invasive plants. And what the early detection of invasive plants approach does is try to shift some of that, hopefully, new investment of time and money that you are already spending to plants that are newer on the landscape.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>Kesel has trained park staff all over the Bay Area to find invasive plants early. Today, she’s in Armstrong Redwoods State Reserve in the Russian River warning a handful of park staff and volunteers about a wispy green weed called panic veldt grass, or Ehrharta erecta.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel Kesel: \u003c/strong>It often comes in on our vehicles, mud in our tires and that sort of thing out of our neighborhoods.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>Kesel takes this little blade of grass very seriously. She saw Ehrharta crop up all over Mt. Tam, where she worked for the better part of a decade. This thing sounds like it could withstand an apocalypse. It can grow on a forest floor in just 2 percent light, or a sunny, soil deprived beach. It grows between other plants, which makes it hard to pull out. And Kesel says it just looks messy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel Kesel: \u003c/strong>It would really change that iconic look of the understory floor and kind of what people are coming into an old-growth redwood forest to see.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>[footsteps]\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>Kesel takes a couple of park personnel out on a detection walk, to show them how they can identify the plant, and map it, so scientists can track its footprint over time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel Kesel:\u003c/strong> Go, team! Now, when I come upon something like this, I’m always gonna take a twirl around it…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/strong> Is that it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel Kesel:\u003c/strong> No, that is a melaka.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/strong> Okay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel Kesel:\u003c/strong> It’s a native grass, thankfully. But. Good eye, you’re noticing grasses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>Apparently, I can’t tell the difference between blades of grass, but Kesel seems to have developed a hawk eye for this work. When we did come across the pesky blades of grass, she broke out a plastic bag to transport the undesirables.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel Kesel:\u003c/strong> I know I look paranoid, but it is dropping its seed, which is why I have it in the bag.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[rustling of plastic bag]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel Kesel:\u003c/strong> So now you go in the bag, my friend …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>Then, she holds up the blade of grass like it’s a contaminated Q-tip so the park workers can get a closer look. She takes out her mini magnifying glass.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel Kesel:\u003c/strong> So, all right. If we look at the base. Of course, this one isn’t very red because, like I said, color is a fickle character.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/strong> Finally, she shows the park workers how to map other invasives using a program on her phone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachel Kesel: \u003c/strong>Go to my location. Why are you being so dumb? I talk back to my device a lot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/strong> During this trip, part of me felt like, wow, what a lot of effort to remove just a little blade of grass. But on the way out of Armstrong that day, I took a moment to stand under the shade of the redwoods and soak in the beauty. The forest floor was covered in this really pretty, delicate-looking sorrel. It’s a clover-like plant a few inches off the ground. That’s when it struck me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone:\u003c/strong> I can really see why people want to preserve this place. The air is so still and soft, and I imagine much cooler than outside this redwood forest. I could spend all day here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pauline Bartolone: \u003c/strong>When it comes to preserving that feeling of the redwoods, managing invasives doesn’t seem like too much to ask. After all, we all manage weeds in our own yards, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> That story was produced by Pauline Bartolone. Big thanks to Tom McMahon and his five-year-old daughter for the question. And to the California invasive plant council for their expertise on this story. If you want to learn more about invasive plants or get involved in one of those removal work parties – we’ve got a lot of resources for you online at BayCurious.org. We’ll drop a link in our show notes too. Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. You can support our show by becoming a member! Give today at donate.kqed.org.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bay Curious is made by Amanda Font, Olivia Allen-Price, Christopher Beale, Ana De Almeida Amaral. Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan and the whole KQED family. I’m Olivia Allen-Price, thank you for listening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/12000061/pretty-but-not-nice-californias-invasive-ice-plant","authors":["11879"],"programs":["news_33523"],"series":["news_17986"],"categories":["news_31795","news_19906","news_8","news_356"],"tags":["news_18426","news_20023","news_27626","news_23518","news_1421"],"featImg":"news_11990228","label":"news_33523"}},"programsReducer":{"possible":{"id":"possible","title":"Possible","info":"Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? 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