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If you prefer to email, we’re at \u003ca href=\"mailto:thebay@kqed.org\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">thebay@kqed.org\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Follow Us\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\n\u003cp>Follow us on Twitter:\u003cbr>\u003ca rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https://twitter.com/thebaykqed\" target=\"_blank\">@TheBayKQED\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-biographies\">\n\n\n\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/hero","attrs":{"titleLayout":"svg","titleSVG":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/The-Bay-Logotype@2x.png","backgroundImageAlt":"The Bay","backgroundImageUrl":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-Bay-Podcast-Banner-2560x1000-1.jpg","blurb":"Bay Area-raised host Ericka Cruz Guevarra talks with local journalists about what’s happening in the greatest region in the country. It’s the context and analysis you need to make sense of the headlines, with help from the people who know it best. New episodes drop Monday, Wednesday, and Friday mornings.","blurbImageAlt":"The Bay","blurbImageUrl":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-Bay-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","previewID":"","hasSponsorLogo":false},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/post-list","attrs":{"layout":"cardsRecent","query":"posts?tag=the-bay&queryId=7c25ace5e0","title":"Episodes","seeMore":true,"sizeBase":6,"sizeSeeMore":6},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/listen-and-subscribe","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/columns","attrs":{"heading":"Contact / Follow"},"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/column","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"core/heading","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Contact Us\u003c/h2>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Contact Us\u003c/h2>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/section","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"core/paragraph","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cp>Got a question, topic idea, advice ask or anything else you’re dying to tell us? Let it all out here! Call us at 415-710-9223 and leave us a voice message. Be sure to tell us your first name and what part of the Bay Area you are from. Just be aware that your message may be played on the podcast. If you prefer to email, we’re at \u003ca href=\"mailto:thebay@kqed.org\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">thebay@kqed.org\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cp>Got a question, topic idea, advice ask or anything else you’re dying to tell us? Let it all out here! Call us at 415-710-9223 and leave us a voice message. Be sure to tell us your first name and what part of the Bay Area you are from. Just be aware that your message may be played on the podcast. If you prefer to email, we’re at \u003ca href=\"mailto:thebay@kqed.org\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">thebay@kqed.org\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"core/paragraph","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\n\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/column","attrs":{"heading":"Follow Us"},"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"core/heading","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Follow Us\u003c/h2>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Follow Us\u003c/h2>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/section","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"core/paragraph","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cp>Follow us on Twitter:\u003cbr>\u003ca rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https://twitter.com/thebaykqed\" target=\"_blank\">@TheBayKQED\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cp>Follow us on Twitter:\u003cbr>\u003ca rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https://twitter.com/thebaykqed\" target=\"_blank\">@TheBayKQED\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/biographies","attrs":{"heading":"The Bay Team","bioType":"white"},"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"kqed/biographies-item","attrs":{"mediaURL":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/240426-Ericka-Cruz-Guevarra-MD-OFF-WHITE_qut-e1726507403161.jpg","mediaAlt":"Ericka Cruz Guevarra","name":"Ericka Cruz Guevarra","position":"Host","bio":"Ericka Cruz Guevarra is the host of \u003cem>The Bay\u003c/em>. Before that, she was the show’s producer. Her work in that capacity included a three-part reported series on policing in Vallejo, which won a 2020 Excellence in Journalism award from the Society of Professional Journalists. Ericka has worked as a breaking news reporting at Oregon Public Broadcasting, helped produce NPR's Code Switch podcast, and was KQED’s inaugural Raul Ramirez Diversity Fund intern. She’s also an alumna of NPR’s Next Generation Radio program. Send her an email if you have strong feelings about whether Fairfield and Suisun City are part of the Bay. ","link":"/author/ecruzguevarra"},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/biographies-item","attrs":{"mediaURL":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/SQUARE-240315-ALAN-MONTECILLO-MD-OFF-WHITE-copy-e1726507257887.jpeg","mediaAlt":"Alan Montecillo","name":"Alan Montecillo","position":"Senior Editor","bio":"Alan Montecillo is the senior editor of \u003cem>The Bay\u003c/em>. He came to KQED from central Illinois, where he was a senior talk show producer at WILL in Champaign-Urbana. Before that, he worked at Oregon Public Broadcasting and co-founded the podcast \u003cem>Racist Sandwich\u003c/em>. He was raised in Hong Kong and graduated from Reed College. ","link":"/author/amontecillo"},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/biographies-item","attrs":{"mediaURL":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/SQUARE_240913-JessicaKariisa-BL-OffWhite_qed.jpg","mediaAlt":"Jessica Kariisa","name":"Jessica Kariisa","position":"Producer","bio":"Jessica Kariisa is the producer of \u003cem>The Bay\u003c/em>. She first joined KQED as an intern for \u003cem>The California Report Magazine\u003c/em>, after which she became an on-call producer. She reported a \u003cem>Bay Curious\u003c/em> episode on the use of rap lyrics in criminal trials which won a Society of Professional Journalists award in 2023 for Excellence in Features Journalism and the 2023 Signal Award for Best Conversation Starter. She’s worked on podcasts for Snap Judgment and American Public Media. Before embarking on her audio career, she was a music journalist. ","link":"/author/jkariisa"},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]}],"innerHTML":"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-biographies\">\n\n\n\n\u003c/div>\n","innerContent":["\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-biographies\">",null,"\n\n",null,"\n\n",null,"\u003c/div>\n"]},{"blockName":"kqed/ad","attrs":[],"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]},{"blockName":"kqed/programs","attrs":{"title":"We Also Recommend","programIDs":["baycurious","mindshift","rightnowish","soldout","onourwatch","forum"]},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"","innerContent":[]}],"status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1726507422,"format":"standard","path":"/podcasts/thebay","redirect":{"type":"internal","url":"/podcasts/thebay"},"audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-columns\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Contact Us\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\n\u003cp>Got a question, topic idea, advice ask or anything else you’re dying to tell us? Let it all out here! Call us at 415-710-9223 and leave us a voice message. Be sure to tell us your first name and what part of the Bay Area you are from. Just be aware that your message may be played on the podcast. If you prefer to email, we’re at \u003ca href=\"mailto:thebay@kqed.org\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">thebay@kqed.org\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-column\">\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Follow Us\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-section\">\n\u003cp>Follow us on Twitter:\u003cbr>\u003ca rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https://twitter.com/thebaykqed\" target=\"_blank\">@TheBayKQED\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-biographies\">\n\n\n\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"featImg":"root-site_20093","label":"root-site","isLoading":false}},"postsReducer":{"stream_live":{"type":"live","id":"stream_live","audioUrl":"https://streams.kqed.org/kqedradio","title":"Live Stream","excerpt":"Live Stream information currently unavailable.","link":"/radio","featImg":"","label":{"name":"KQED Live","link":"/"}},"stream_kqedNewscast":{"type":"posts","id":"stream_kqedNewscast","audioUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/RDnews/newscast.mp3?_=1","title":"KQED Newscast","featImg":"","label":{"name":"88.5 FM","link":"/"}},"news_12010978":{"type":"posts","id":"news_12010978","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"12010978","score":null,"sort":[1729850410000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"could-the-oakland-hills-burn-again","title":"Could the Oakland Hills Burn Again?","publishDate":1729850410,"format":"audio","headTitle":"Could the Oakland Hills Burn Again? | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>The Keller Fire, which ignited last Friday in the Oakland Hills, has been contained after burning 15 acres. It temporarily displaced more than 500 residents and damaged two homes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>33 years ago — almost to the day — a much larger and more catastrophic fire burned through the Oakland Hills, killing 25 people and destroying thousands of buildings. It’s a stark reminder of what can happen when wildfires spread in an urban area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This episode originally aired on Oct. 20, 2021. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC6468478060&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"The Keller Fire has been contained. But it could have been much worse; just ask residents who were there for the 1991 Oakland Hills fire.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1729805180,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":6,"wordCount":86},"headData":{"title":"Could the Oakland Hills Burn Again? | KQED","description":"The Keller Fire has been contained. But it could have been much worse; just ask residents who were there for the 1991 Oakland Hills fire.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Could the Oakland Hills Burn Again?","datePublished":"2024-10-25T03:00:10-07:00","dateModified":"2024-10-24T14:26:20-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"The Bay","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/thebay","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC6468478060.mp3?updated=1729805282","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/12010978/could-the-oakland-hills-burn-again","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>The Keller Fire, which ignited last Friday in the Oakland Hills, has been contained after burning 15 acres. It temporarily displaced more than 500 residents and damaged two homes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>33 years ago — almost to the day — a much larger and more catastrophic fire burned through the Oakland Hills, killing 25 people and destroying thousands of buildings. It’s a stark reminder of what can happen when wildfires spread in an urban area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This episode originally aired on Oct. 20, 2021. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC6468478060&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/12010978/could-the-oakland-hills-burn-again","authors":["11649","11923","8654"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_212","news_34054","news_22598"],"featImg":"news_12010226","label":"source_news_12010978"},"news_12010547":{"type":"posts","id":"news_12010547","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"12010547","score":null,"sort":[1729677601000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"sf-school-closures-are-on-pause-for-now","title":"SF School Closures Are on Pause – For Now","publishDate":1729677601,"format":"audio","headTitle":"SF School Closures Are on Pause – For Now | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>A new superintendent is taking the helm of the embattled San Francisco Unified School District as it faces a December deadline to close a $113 million budget deficit. That’s after a series of crises, including a botched process around school closures, led to the resignation of Superintendent Matt Wayne over the weekend.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://kqed.applytojob.com/apply/ECNyMQ12yY/The-Bay-Podcast-Intern\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apply to be The Bay’s next intern!\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC4444155517\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:01:33] It’s definitely been a rough couple of months for the district.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:36] Katie DeBenedetti is a reporter for KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:01:40] They were already having budget issues that were years in the making. This fall, they were planning to propose a list of schools to close. And then this past week, the superintendent ended up resigning. So it’s been rocky, to say the least.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:58] I mean, a lot of the problems facing the district right now really stem from this big budget deficit. Can you remind us — how in the hole is San Francisco Unified and how did it get this bad?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:02:12] This year, the district has about a $113 million deficit, which is pretty bad compared to other districts. Its long term or structural deficit is actually much larger. The district is already under pretty strict oversight from this state. Two fiscal advisers have veto power over their financial decisions and have since March. The district says that most of it is because of declining enrollment. Over the past few decades, less students have attended S.F. City schools, but they haven’t reduced staff or school sites and programs accordingly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:56] And less students, I imagine, means less money.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:02:59] Right. So a lot of the funding comes on a per student basis from the state. So when when there’s less students, there’s just less funds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:12] I mean, how much exactly has enrollment been declining at San Francisco public schools? And is it particularly bad compared to other places?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:03:21] Honestly, the district’s kind of just been kicking the can down the road. So the district estimates that they have 14,000 empty seats across its campuses. To put it into perspective, over the last five years, SFUSD’s enrollment has declined about 10%. And statewide, the drop has, you know, been about 9.5%. So it’s not that much worse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But it’s really been building for years. It hasn’t been adjusting its spending relative to its declining enrollment. San Francisco specifically has less kids. But also with the pandemic, more people moving out of cities. There’s just, you know, less kids in urban areas like San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:04:10] One big, very controversial thing that the district has done in the past and was considering again more recently was closing schools. Why was that on the table and how did that go for the district this year?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:04:23] So the declining enrollment problem is really why they’re considering the school closures. The district says it needs to reduce schools to bring the number of classrooms, teachers, guidance counselors in alignment with its new number of students and not be paying for resources for those thousands of empty seats, basically.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The act of closing schools itself isn’t going to save the district a ton of money. But because of the deficit, if they don’t make those cuts and leave the amount of schools open that they have now, they’ll be under-resourced. The last time San Francisco closed schools in 2005 and 2006, a lot of people felt that it wasn’t done equitably. It affected Black communities and schools in the southeast side of the city disproportionately. And there was a lot of trust lost during that process. So people are going in with that in the back of their minds, really. And then throughout the fall, it’s just been a bit of a train wreck. The superintendent, Matt Wayne, was supposed to release the lists of schools in September and then pushed it back just two days before it was scheduled.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:05:45] And then Mayor London Breed got involved, sending a rescue team to the district. There were rumors that the district could delay, you know, the list again, and then it did end up dropping with some errors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When it came out, there were incorrect scores that the district was using to decide if schools could close or should close, and they had to be corrected. And then there was also communication that was meant to be sent to one school community that was going to be affected, that ended up going to other staff and students. So it really just was confusing and kind of added to the stress and anger that parents had.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:33] I mean, how would you describe the reaction at the time, especially from from parents and families?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:06:41] I think most people were pretty frustrated, but also, you know, ready to fight for their schools to stay open.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Meredith Dodson \u003c/strong>[00:06:49] You know, there’s an initial reaction of shock, concern, anger.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:06:55] So Meredith Dodson is the executive director of the San Francisco Parent Coalition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Meredith Dodson \u003c/strong>[00:07:02] You know, a lot of families weren’t even aware that this process was happening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:07:06] She said that most parents were pretty frustrated by the way that the rollout has gone, but also feeling kind of unsure about, you know, if we don’t go through with this plan, what comes next?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Meredith Dodson \u003c/strong>[00:07:20] There needs to be a very clearly communicated story about why this makes sense. And we’re just, we just, we don’t have that story yet. And so we’re kind of waiting. You know, parents are waiting to see that from the district.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:07:33] It’s never going to be an easy thing or really well received, I think, when when you’re closing schools. But there was so much focus on, you know, doing it right this time that I think that amplified the anger because they didn’t do it right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:07:50] And I mean, that said, that’s not the only problem that the district has faced over the last few years. Can you tell me about what else the district has been sort of dealing with outside of the school closure debacle?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:08:04] Yeah. So the last couple of years, the district has had a really big payroll issue. It resulted in a lot of staff getting incorrect paychecks or missing paychecks. It’s come to light this year that the district did not hire about 250 special education workers that are now missing from school sites that need them. And at the start of this year, there were about 100 vacancies that were budgeted for and in some cases filled, but just not onboarded correctly. So there’s been some other organizational issues.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:08:44] I mean, it sounds just totally chaotic. Why, Katie, is it so bad? I mean, some of this is you could, I guess, chalk up to the budget deficit problem, but it also seems like a lot of mismanagement as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:09:01] Yeah. And a lot of that has been blamed on the superintendent, Matt Wayne. I think that a lot of people have also said these problems existed in central office before, but a lot of it really comes down to communication and just a sense that the district office is pretty disjointed and not, you know, on the same page.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:29] Coming up, the superintendent resigns and what could happen going forward. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So there’s so much going on. And this superintendent or I guess former superintendent Matt Wayne, took a lot of the blame for it all and this weekend, he quit. What happened?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:09:56] Yes. So after the list came out, it was poorly received.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>London Breed \u003c/strong>[00:10:00] There were some major communication issues with our superintendent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:10:05] Mayor London Breed kind of got involved and came out saying that she had lost confidence in his leadership.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>London Breed \u003c/strong>[00:10:11] The fact is, if we are working on this together and we’re providing that support, we need to all be on the same page.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:10:17] And then pretty quickly, it is announced that he’ll be resigning on Friday night. So the board meets, accepts his resignation, and then board president Matt Alexander announces that they will, you know, hire a new superintendent. Her name’s Maria Su, and they’ll ask her to halt the school closure plan for now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:10:42] That’s a pretty big deal to have a brand new superintendent with just two months to figure out the budget stuff. I mean, what can you tell me about Maria Sue and what do we know about her?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:10:57] So Maria Sue has been co-leading the mayor’s rescue team that she sent in probably about a month ago now to aid the district with the fiscal problems and the school closure problems. So she’s been familiar with SFUSD at least a little bit for the last month or so. But before that, she has been the executive director of San Francisco’s Department of Children, Youth and their Families. She’s been in that role for 19 years and has worked, you know, with youth and in upper management positions even longer with budgets. You know, she’s familiar with San Francisco and children, but she doesn’t have an education background.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>London Breed \u003c/strong>[00:11:42] Good morning, everyone. I’m San Francisco mayor London Breed, and I am so grateful to be here with so many of the leaders of the city and county of San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:11:54] So they had a press conference on Monday morning and it was kind of a who’s who. Mayor London Breed was there. The state superintendent,Tony Thurmond was there. Scott Wiener was there, our state senator. A lot of school board members, a lot of members of the board of supervisors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>London Breed \u003c/strong>[00:12:14] When you need someone to get the job done, you call people like Maria Su.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:12:20] And there was a real sense of just hope surrounding Maria Su and really stabilizing the district and working together to do so.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matt Alexander \u003c/strong>[00:12:29] And that’s what’s been missing at SFUSD. It’s not the educators, it’s the systems that support them. And that is why I am so excited that Maria Su is going to be considered for the next position.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:12:40] Matt Alexander is the board president of San Francisco Unified.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matt Alexander \u003c/strong>[00:12:46] You know, our beloved San Francisco Giants finished the season in second to last place, 18 games out. And what did they do? They hired Buster Posey to run the team. That’s what we’re doing with Maria Su. We’re hiring Buster Posey.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:12:59] He also seems pretty confident that she’ll do a great job. He, you know, did touch on the fact that it seemed like in the past, not all of the district staff or maybe the superintendent were super open to support and collaboration. And he felt that she would be.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Maria Su \u003c/strong>[00:13:24] As a fellow San Franciscan, former SFUSD parent and a lifelong public servant. I understand the profound responsibilities of this role and I am ready.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:46] Well, Katie, that’s a lot of big change happening at the district and in key leadership there at this really critical time. What does this mean in the immediate term for parents and students and teachers?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:14:00] So Su said she’s going to focus on the budget first, balancing that by December. But then her other main priority is going to be repairing trust with families. She told reporters that meant going out to school sites, talking with students over snacks, grabbing coffee with parents and teachers, really getting out of the district office and onto school campuses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Maria Su \u003c/strong>[00:14:22] These challenges are complex. I wish there was a shortcut to it, but there are not. But I am confident that with the support of everyone behind me, we will get this done.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:14:34] As you just mentioned, Katie, none of this really changes the fact that there is still a budget deficit that needs closing. Besides, you know, the potential of more school closures, do we know anything about how the district plans to do that now? It’s still seems like the million dollar question here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:14:53] Definitely. We don’t know a lot. But, you know, school closures also aren’t totally off the table. Pretty much every speaker at Monday’s press conference said that there would be tough conversations ahead, alluding to, if not explicitly saying mergers and closures are going to be on the table. And so that’s going to be partly up to the school board after November’s election. There’s been projections that up to 500 positions might be cut, some through layoffs, a lot through attrition. Schools could have to share a nurse or not have a counselor on site every day. The teachers union is also calling for cuts to come from central office staff. So there’s bound to be some tension there, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Cassandra Curiel \u003c/strong>[00:15:40] When there are cuts to schools. Everyone at schools feels that, including the families.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:15:46] Cassandra Curiel is the president of United Educators of San Francisco. San Francisco’s teacher union.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Cassandra Curiel \u003c/strong>[00:15:53] We’re sensitive to that because cuts to schools does not mean that things that students don’t need or use every day are suddenly gone and no one feels the difference.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:16:04] I think that they’re, you know, feeling cautiously optimistic, hoping that, you know, everything she said about really wanting to engage with them and turning the district around is true, but also going to wait and see what those conversations look like.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Cassandra Curiel \u003c/strong>[00:16:22] Any cuts to the budget moving forward? We expect a full process, right? We’re very sensitive to that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:16:34] Well, Katie, how important is it that San Francisco Unified figure out its budget problems?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:16:42] It’s really important. I mean, the state superintendent and Maria Su both said during the press conference that there wouldn’t be a state takeover. But that is what the district risks if it doesn’t balance the budget. And I think for districts struggling to keep students already, it could have pretty poor effects on both perception and enrollment here. The more students you lose, the more we might have to return to this conversation about school closures or just having less funding again. And a lot of students are going from public schools into private schools, you know, charter schools. And so the district is really trying to bring kids back. So it’s really just a cycle. And if parents don’t feel like they can have stability, obviously they’re going to leave.\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":null,"status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1729717231,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":63,"wordCount":2797},"headData":{"title":"SF School Closures Are on Pause – For Now | KQED","description":"A new superintendent is taking the helm of the embattled San Francisco Unified School District as it faces a December deadline to close a $113 million budget deficit. That’s after a series of crises, including a botched process around school closures, led to the resignation of Superintendent Matt Wayne over the weekend. Links: Apply to be The Bay's next intern! This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors. Katie DeBenedetti It's definitely been a rough couple of months for the district. Ericka Cruz Guevarra Katie DeBenedetti is a reporter for KQED.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"SF School Closures Are on Pause – For Now","datePublished":"2024-10-23T03:00:01-07:00","dateModified":"2024-10-23T14:00:31-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"The Bay","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/thebay","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC4444155517.mp3?updated=1729628243","sticky":false,"nprStoryId":"kqed-12010547","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/12010547/sf-school-closures-are-on-pause-for-now","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>A new superintendent is taking the helm of the embattled San Francisco Unified School District as it faces a December deadline to close a $113 million budget deficit. That’s after a series of crises, including a botched process around school closures, led to the resignation of Superintendent Matt Wayne over the weekend.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://kqed.applytojob.com/apply/ECNyMQ12yY/The-Bay-Podcast-Intern\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apply to be The Bay’s next intern!\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC4444155517\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:01:33] It’s definitely been a rough couple of months for the district.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:36] Katie DeBenedetti is a reporter for KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:01:40] They were already having budget issues that were years in the making. This fall, they were planning to propose a list of schools to close. And then this past week, the superintendent ended up resigning. So it’s been rocky, to say the least.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:58] I mean, a lot of the problems facing the district right now really stem from this big budget deficit. Can you remind us — how in the hole is San Francisco Unified and how did it get this bad?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:02:12] This year, the district has about a $113 million deficit, which is pretty bad compared to other districts. Its long term or structural deficit is actually much larger. The district is already under pretty strict oversight from this state. Two fiscal advisers have veto power over their financial decisions and have since March. The district says that most of it is because of declining enrollment. Over the past few decades, less students have attended S.F. City schools, but they haven’t reduced staff or school sites and programs accordingly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:56] And less students, I imagine, means less money.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:02:59] Right. So a lot of the funding comes on a per student basis from the state. So when when there’s less students, there’s just less funds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:12] I mean, how much exactly has enrollment been declining at San Francisco public schools? And is it particularly bad compared to other places?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:03:21] Honestly, the district’s kind of just been kicking the can down the road. So the district estimates that they have 14,000 empty seats across its campuses. To put it into perspective, over the last five years, SFUSD’s enrollment has declined about 10%. And statewide, the drop has, you know, been about 9.5%. So it’s not that much worse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But it’s really been building for years. It hasn’t been adjusting its spending relative to its declining enrollment. San Francisco specifically has less kids. But also with the pandemic, more people moving out of cities. There’s just, you know, less kids in urban areas like San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:04:10] One big, very controversial thing that the district has done in the past and was considering again more recently was closing schools. Why was that on the table and how did that go for the district this year?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:04:23] So the declining enrollment problem is really why they’re considering the school closures. The district says it needs to reduce schools to bring the number of classrooms, teachers, guidance counselors in alignment with its new number of students and not be paying for resources for those thousands of empty seats, basically.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The act of closing schools itself isn’t going to save the district a ton of money. But because of the deficit, if they don’t make those cuts and leave the amount of schools open that they have now, they’ll be under-resourced. The last time San Francisco closed schools in 2005 and 2006, a lot of people felt that it wasn’t done equitably. It affected Black communities and schools in the southeast side of the city disproportionately. And there was a lot of trust lost during that process. So people are going in with that in the back of their minds, really. And then throughout the fall, it’s just been a bit of a train wreck. The superintendent, Matt Wayne, was supposed to release the lists of schools in September and then pushed it back just two days before it was scheduled.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:05:45] And then Mayor London Breed got involved, sending a rescue team to the district. There were rumors that the district could delay, you know, the list again, and then it did end up dropping with some errors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When it came out, there were incorrect scores that the district was using to decide if schools could close or should close, and they had to be corrected. And then there was also communication that was meant to be sent to one school community that was going to be affected, that ended up going to other staff and students. So it really just was confusing and kind of added to the stress and anger that parents had.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:33] I mean, how would you describe the reaction at the time, especially from from parents and families?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:06:41] I think most people were pretty frustrated, but also, you know, ready to fight for their schools to stay open.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Meredith Dodson \u003c/strong>[00:06:49] You know, there’s an initial reaction of shock, concern, anger.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:06:55] So Meredith Dodson is the executive director of the San Francisco Parent Coalition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Meredith Dodson \u003c/strong>[00:07:02] You know, a lot of families weren’t even aware that this process was happening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:07:06] She said that most parents were pretty frustrated by the way that the rollout has gone, but also feeling kind of unsure about, you know, if we don’t go through with this plan, what comes next?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Meredith Dodson \u003c/strong>[00:07:20] There needs to be a very clearly communicated story about why this makes sense. And we’re just, we just, we don’t have that story yet. And so we’re kind of waiting. You know, parents are waiting to see that from the district.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:07:33] It’s never going to be an easy thing or really well received, I think, when when you’re closing schools. But there was so much focus on, you know, doing it right this time that I think that amplified the anger because they didn’t do it right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:07:50] And I mean, that said, that’s not the only problem that the district has faced over the last few years. Can you tell me about what else the district has been sort of dealing with outside of the school closure debacle?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:08:04] Yeah. So the last couple of years, the district has had a really big payroll issue. It resulted in a lot of staff getting incorrect paychecks or missing paychecks. It’s come to light this year that the district did not hire about 250 special education workers that are now missing from school sites that need them. And at the start of this year, there were about 100 vacancies that were budgeted for and in some cases filled, but just not onboarded correctly. So there’s been some other organizational issues.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:08:44] I mean, it sounds just totally chaotic. Why, Katie, is it so bad? I mean, some of this is you could, I guess, chalk up to the budget deficit problem, but it also seems like a lot of mismanagement as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:09:01] Yeah. And a lot of that has been blamed on the superintendent, Matt Wayne. I think that a lot of people have also said these problems existed in central office before, but a lot of it really comes down to communication and just a sense that the district office is pretty disjointed and not, you know, on the same page.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:29] Coming up, the superintendent resigns and what could happen going forward. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So there’s so much going on. And this superintendent or I guess former superintendent Matt Wayne, took a lot of the blame for it all and this weekend, he quit. What happened?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:09:56] Yes. So after the list came out, it was poorly received.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>London Breed \u003c/strong>[00:10:00] There were some major communication issues with our superintendent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:10:05] Mayor London Breed kind of got involved and came out saying that she had lost confidence in his leadership.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>London Breed \u003c/strong>[00:10:11] The fact is, if we are working on this together and we’re providing that support, we need to all be on the same page.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:10:17] And then pretty quickly, it is announced that he’ll be resigning on Friday night. So the board meets, accepts his resignation, and then board president Matt Alexander announces that they will, you know, hire a new superintendent. Her name’s Maria Su, and they’ll ask her to halt the school closure plan for now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:10:42] That’s a pretty big deal to have a brand new superintendent with just two months to figure out the budget stuff. I mean, what can you tell me about Maria Sue and what do we know about her?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:10:57] So Maria Sue has been co-leading the mayor’s rescue team that she sent in probably about a month ago now to aid the district with the fiscal problems and the school closure problems. So she’s been familiar with SFUSD at least a little bit for the last month or so. But before that, she has been the executive director of San Francisco’s Department of Children, Youth and their Families. She’s been in that role for 19 years and has worked, you know, with youth and in upper management positions even longer with budgets. You know, she’s familiar with San Francisco and children, but she doesn’t have an education background.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>London Breed \u003c/strong>[00:11:42] Good morning, everyone. I’m San Francisco mayor London Breed, and I am so grateful to be here with so many of the leaders of the city and county of San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:11:54] So they had a press conference on Monday morning and it was kind of a who’s who. Mayor London Breed was there. The state superintendent,Tony Thurmond was there. Scott Wiener was there, our state senator. A lot of school board members, a lot of members of the board of supervisors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>London Breed \u003c/strong>[00:12:14] When you need someone to get the job done, you call people like Maria Su.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:12:20] And there was a real sense of just hope surrounding Maria Su and really stabilizing the district and working together to do so.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matt Alexander \u003c/strong>[00:12:29] And that’s what’s been missing at SFUSD. It’s not the educators, it’s the systems that support them. And that is why I am so excited that Maria Su is going to be considered for the next position.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:12:40] Matt Alexander is the board president of San Francisco Unified.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matt Alexander \u003c/strong>[00:12:46] You know, our beloved San Francisco Giants finished the season in second to last place, 18 games out. And what did they do? They hired Buster Posey to run the team. That’s what we’re doing with Maria Su. We’re hiring Buster Posey.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:12:59] He also seems pretty confident that she’ll do a great job. He, you know, did touch on the fact that it seemed like in the past, not all of the district staff or maybe the superintendent were super open to support and collaboration. And he felt that she would be.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Maria Su \u003c/strong>[00:13:24] As a fellow San Franciscan, former SFUSD parent and a lifelong public servant. I understand the profound responsibilities of this role and I am ready.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:46] Well, Katie, that’s a lot of big change happening at the district and in key leadership there at this really critical time. What does this mean in the immediate term for parents and students and teachers?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:14:00] So Su said she’s going to focus on the budget first, balancing that by December. But then her other main priority is going to be repairing trust with families. She told reporters that meant going out to school sites, talking with students over snacks, grabbing coffee with parents and teachers, really getting out of the district office and onto school campuses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Maria Su \u003c/strong>[00:14:22] These challenges are complex. I wish there was a shortcut to it, but there are not. But I am confident that with the support of everyone behind me, we will get this done.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:14:34] As you just mentioned, Katie, none of this really changes the fact that there is still a budget deficit that needs closing. Besides, you know, the potential of more school closures, do we know anything about how the district plans to do that now? It’s still seems like the million dollar question here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:14:53] Definitely. We don’t know a lot. But, you know, school closures also aren’t totally off the table. Pretty much every speaker at Monday’s press conference said that there would be tough conversations ahead, alluding to, if not explicitly saying mergers and closures are going to be on the table. And so that’s going to be partly up to the school board after November’s election. There’s been projections that up to 500 positions might be cut, some through layoffs, a lot through attrition. Schools could have to share a nurse or not have a counselor on site every day. The teachers union is also calling for cuts to come from central office staff. So there’s bound to be some tension there, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Cassandra Curiel \u003c/strong>[00:15:40] When there are cuts to schools. Everyone at schools feels that, including the families.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:15:46] Cassandra Curiel is the president of United Educators of San Francisco. San Francisco’s teacher union.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Cassandra Curiel \u003c/strong>[00:15:53] We’re sensitive to that because cuts to schools does not mean that things that students don’t need or use every day are suddenly gone and no one feels the difference.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:16:04] I think that they’re, you know, feeling cautiously optimistic, hoping that, you know, everything she said about really wanting to engage with them and turning the district around is true, but also going to wait and see what those conversations look like.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Cassandra Curiel \u003c/strong>[00:16:22] Any cuts to the budget moving forward? We expect a full process, right? We’re very sensitive to that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:16:34] Well, Katie, how important is it that San Francisco Unified figure out its budget problems?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Katie DeBenedetti \u003c/strong>[00:16:42] It’s really important. I mean, the state superintendent and Maria Su both said during the press conference that there wouldn’t be a state takeover. But that is what the district risks if it doesn’t balance the budget. And I think for districts struggling to keep students already, it could have pretty poor effects on both perception and enrollment here. The more students you lose, the more we might have to return to this conversation about school closures or just having less funding again. And a lot of students are going from public schools into private schools, you know, charter schools. And so the district is really trying to bring kids back. So it’s really just a cycle. And if parents don’t feel like they can have stability, obviously they’re going to leave.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/12010547/sf-school-closures-are-on-pause-for-now","authors":["8654","11913","11831","11649"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_20013","news_33812","news_1290","news_22598"],"featImg":"news_12008834","label":"source_news_12010547"},"news_12010140":{"type":"posts","id":"news_12010140","meta":{"index":"posts_1716263798","site":"news","id":"12010140","score":null,"sort":[1729504854000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"sonoma-measure-j-thebay","title":"Sonoma County's Measure J Could Reshape Farming","publishDate":1729504854,"format":"audio","headTitle":"Sonoma County’s Measure J Could Reshape Farming | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Sonoma County, no ballot measure has gotten more attention than Measure J.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Put on the ballot by animal rights groups, Measure J would ban “Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations” in the county. It would be the first law of its kind in the nation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Supporters say this ban on so-called factory farms is an issue of animal welfare and environmental protection, while opponents see it as an existential threat to the farming economy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC1990897213&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:02:53] Locals will tell you about the “Sonoma aroma,” which is on certain days when the weather conditions are right, there’s a waft of manure smell all over the valley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:09] Gabe Malin is senior editor of arts and culture for KQED. He’s based in Sonoma County.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:03:16] Any drive out to like the coast or on Petaluma Hill Road or between Petaluma and Point Reyes – just cows on the hills everywhere. Cows. Sheep. Goats. And there are some big dairy brands up there too, that everybody knows. Clover Farms and Strauss Creamery.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:36] I’ve never actually heard that idea of the Sonoma aroma. Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:03:41] It’s like our version of the Santa Ana winds or something.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:44] Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like that smell is actually something I associate with a place like the Central Valley, which Sonoma County is not, right? Like, at the end of the day, it is still in the Bay Area and is therefore also still a liberal place compared to maybe an Iowa or a central valley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:04:05] It is really interesting in Sonoma County because it is this progressive liberal place and then you think of farming or animal farming as like, the heartland, the old way of doing things, the more conservative way of doing things. I think we coexist pretty well up there. There is a history of support for animal welfare in Sonoma County. There are a number of propositions on the ballot recently, Prop 2 and Prop 12 that Sonoma County voters were in favor of. And proponents of Measure J are saying, hey, Sonoma County, you voted for these animal welfare props before. Why wouldn’t you also vote for this one?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:04:44] Yeah, let’s get into Measure J. How did this get on the ballot, Gabe?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:04:49] A measure J was put on the ballot by a group based in Berkeley called the Coalition to End Factory Farming, and that is a group of advocacy organizations and activist organizations and animal welfare organizations. They got the signatures and they put it on the ballot. So Measure J would ban concentrated animal feeding operations, CAFOs for short. The Yes on J people like to refer to them as factory farms, and the No on J people refute that. It’s a EPA designation. It’s a water permit requirement, but it does set numbers for the amount of animals that can be held at a farm before they are considered a for. Large CFOs are defined as having 700 mature dairy cows or 85,000 egg laying hens or 25,000 meat producing chickens. The numbers are a little bit lower for medium CAFOs, but one of the designations of a medium CAFO is if it has a manmade ditch or pipe. Transferring waste to surface water. There’s some debate about how what that would actually apply to in Sonoma County. This measure would ban or it would force large farms to curtail operations to be under these limits. It would affect at least 11, very likely, 21 of the largest farms in Sonoma County.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:23] Who are the proponents of Measure J, Gabe?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:06:27] Supporters on the Yes on J site are Coalition To End Factory Farming and all of the people that make up that coalition. The Peace and Justice Center, a very lefty liberal group in Santa Rosa, the Green Party, which some people may scoff at. But Sebastopol at one point had all Green Party members on it, City Council in Sonoma County. So the Green Party does have influence in Sonoma County in defense of animals. Other animal advocacy organizations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:59] And also notably this group, Direct Action Everywhere. Yes. Tell me a little bit about them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:07:06] Ah yes, the boogie man. Direct action everywhere has been brought up so many times in relation to Measure J. Some people think that they directly put it on the ballot. I direct action Everywhere is a is an activist group based in Berkeley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Footage \u003c/strong>[00:07:22] (sound of ducks) Put down that gate. Yeah, you can run.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:07:26] In Sonoma County. They’re best known for breaking into farms in the middle of the night and filming operations, you know, unannounced, which they say is the only way that the public can get a true picture of how animals are treated in these farms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lewis Bernier \u003c/strong>[00:07:43] We have a right under California penal code 597 E to enter any facility where we know animals are sick or injured or do not have access to food and water.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:07:52] Some people think that they’re operating in the shadows with marionette strings. But it is true that there is a lot of overlap between direct action everywhere and Measure J.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:08:04] And what are the arguments for Measure J?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:08:09] These people believe that animals feel emotions and they feel things like stress and fear and that they are being mistreated as a as a result of some of these exposes by direct action everywhere.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kristina Garfinkel \u003c/strong>[00:08:21] The CAFOs in Sonoma County have been exposed for rampant animal cruelty, including birds that have been left sick and injured to just starve to death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:08:31] Kristina Garfinkel is a lead organizer of the Coalition to End Factory Farming. She spoke at a KRCB town hall at a local library recently.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kristina Garfinkel \u003c/strong>[00:08:41] They’ve also polluted our local water sources with key waterways like the Petaluma River, Laguna de Santa Rosa being impaired with nitrates and phosphates, which are key indicators of CAFO waste pollution.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:08:56] Her support of Measure J is about animal welfare, is about environmental protection. It’s about public health and this perceived threat to small farms in Sonoma County.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kristina Garfinkel \u003c/strong>[00:09:06] But over the last few decades, large companies have been coming in. They’ve been consolidating and they’ve been taking over the market. And they’ve done so at the cost of small farms, of animal welfare, of the environment and the health of the residents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:26] Why are there eyes set on Sonoma County though?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:09:30] Gabe I think because Sonoma County is more likely to vote for it than say, Tulare County or San Joaquin County. Like there’s enough of that progressive mindset in Sonoma County that might say, ban factory farms. Of course, they think it has a chance in Sonoma County. It’s also really seen as a bellwether measure. Like if it passes in Sonoma County, they’ve essentially said we’re going to try it in other counties as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:10:03] And who’s coming out against Measure J and what are their arguments?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:10:07] Well, Ericka, can you read the tiny, small print on this mailer that I got in the mail the other day?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:10:14] That is a long list.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:10:16] I didn’t count, but it looks like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds. A funny moment in this measure. History is when the the board of supervisors has to rubber stamp it and say, okay, it’s going on the ballot. And they did so plugging their noses. They almost protested in place while they were doing it. Similarly, in just about every city council in Sonoma County, except for Cotati, which was neutral, but all the other city councils in Sonoma County have passed resolutions against it. You know, there are some obvious ones like the Marin Agricultural Land Trust, the Sonoma County Farm Bureau, both the Sonoma County Republican Party and Sonoma Valley Democrats are against it. Sonoma County Conservation Action and the Sonoma County Farm Bureau oppose it. When you have in Sonoma County, you know, those are strange bedfellows. North Bay Labor Council are recognizable businesses like Dellinger Winery, Freedman Brothers, Martinelli Winery, and the list goes on and on and on and on. They’ve really gotten a lot of people to sign up against this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:18] What is the main argument, you would say, Gabe, that they’re making against Measure J.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:11:24] The argument is that it would put out of business, you know, these family owned farms that have been around for over 100 years, some of them that it would create higher food costs and have less locally sourced food. They’re saying that it comes with certain mandates with no plan for funding them, so it would cost taxpayers millions of dollars. They cite a University of California study that has estimated the damage to the economy in Sonoma County at $500 million. The details of that are a little bit in dispute. Really, you know, making a major, major devastating impact on farming in Sonoma County and the economy as a whole.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Mike Weber \u003c/strong>[00:12:07] Well, it’s it’s pretty clear that the measure is designed to ban farming in Sonoma County.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:12:13] Mike Weber is the owner of Weber Family Farms Poultry Farm in Sonoma County. One of his big points is you can’t do this regulating size.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Mike Weber \u003c/strong>[00:12:24] Size doesn’t matter. This has got to be about merit. If you’re doing something wrong, if you’re breaking the rules, then you need the punishment. Otherwise, it’s on merit. And this has nothing to do with merit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:12:34] Farms are already under audits and investigations and county, state, federal regulations. You know, these auditors and regulators come and show up and do very, very in-depth inspections of their farms. And when there’s a bad actor, they get penalized or they get sued. So if you have a good actor, what’s the point of reducing the size of their operation if their operation is operating within the regulations that have been set?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Mike Weber \u003c/strong>[00:13:01] This measure will go to put us out of business. We won’t have milk, eggs and other fresh produce from this community. We’ll be left with nothing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:13:10] There’s some interesting language in this measure. One of them is about authorizing citizen enforcement. But there’s another one about job retraining program for people who would lose their jobs. People who work at these farms who would lose their jobs. The county agricultural commissioner would have to develop and execute and manage a job retraining program for people who lose their jobs on farms. That would close. The No on J. Crowd is saying it’s not just the people who work at the farms. This is going to cause exponential job losses. You know, everyone down the food chain, the truckers, the grocers, the suppliers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:48] It seems like the yes and the no sides are not quite on the same page in a lot of ways, even just in the language that they’re using around this measure, around what to call these farms, whether they’re factory farms versus family farms. I mean, those mean very different things.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:14:09] They do mean very different things. I mean, this is not new in politics, but the. Yes. Underside prefers the term factory farms, I think because it has that resonance with people when you hear factory farm. I think most people in the Bay Area think of Harris Ranch, which is on I-5, halfway to L.A. You know it because you smell it before you see it. It is a gigantic, gigantic factory farm. It’s a really big there’s no farms in Sonoma County that are even remotely close to Harris Ranch. A lot of them that would fall under this ban are pasture grazing farms, which means that cows can roam the hills. They’re not confined in these like, dirty, smelly warehouses. But the No and J crowd loves to say family farms. And yeah, they’re definitely family farms. They’ve been in the family for a long time. Does that mean that they’re inherently good or bad? I mean, the Koch brothers is a family business, technically, Right? So but I think that’s all just about resonance with voters. You know, family farms, good factory farms, bad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:15:18] You brought into the studio, these large mailers that you got in your man box. I’m curious how they fit those in there. There seems to be a lot of campaign spending. What do we know about how much has been spent?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:15:31] There’s been at least it might be more by now, but there’s been at least $2 million in campaign spending that has just poured in, a lot of it from outside the county. Because like I said, this is seen as a canary in the coal mine for other counties to face bans on their ballots, too. Most of it is no longer spending, but $2 million is a lot of money, especially from Sonoma County.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:16:02] You’ve lived there your whole life. I’m curious what the last couple of months have been like in Sonoma County. How do you see Measure J in your community and how it’s sort of being received? And have you ever seen anything like it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:16:17] I’ve never seen this much money poured in for a county measure, and I’ve never seen this many billboards for and against it. But I’m also not seeing like fistfights at the soccer game, you know, on the weekend .\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Protesters \u003c/strong>[00:16:31] Protect our water, Yes on J!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:16:36] There, there have been large protests. And in downtown Santa Rosa, we’d like to protest one side on one side of the street and one on the other. So there’s been, you know, large. Yes on J people and large no on J people. The No on J crowd has been bigger and louder.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:16:58] This ballot measure, should it pass, would be the first of its kind in the country. Really, Gabe, what do you think this story tells us about, I guess, the broader struggle between. Animal rights activists and the agricultural industry. It’s sort of feels like a very Bay Area struggle to me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:17:20] It does. It’s a little bit of a generational one, too, I’ve noticed. Have you ever heard of Clo the Cow?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:17:26] I have heard of Clo the Cow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:17:28] The cow is like our mascot. Clo the cow is the mascot for Clover Stornetta Farms. Clo the cow gives out free ice cream and free chocolate milk to kids at the fair. Clo The cow is that Wednesday night market at every single street fair like. And there’s a billboard right near Rohnert Park that says Save Clo, Vote No.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:17:56] It’s also an industry that you can’t really whitewash it. It kills animals. Voting against Measure J is going with the status quo, literally. And, you know, if you’re against killing animals, even for food. Voting for it is pushing in a, you know, ostensibly moral direction.\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"In Sonoma County, no ballot measure has gotten more attention than Measure J.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1729717131,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":7,"wordCount":2882},"headData":{"title":"Sonoma County's Measure J Could Reshape Farming | KQED","description":"In Sonoma County, no ballot measure has gotten more attention than Measure J.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Sonoma County's Measure J Could Reshape Farming","datePublished":"2024-10-21T03:00:54-07:00","dateModified":"2024-10-23T13:58:51-07:00","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"True","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"The Bay","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/thebay","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC1990897213.mp3?updated=1729286652","sticky":false,"nprStoryId":"kqed-12010140","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/12010140/sonoma-measure-j-thebay","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Sonoma County, no ballot measure has gotten more attention than Measure J.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Put on the ballot by animal rights groups, Measure J would ban “Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations” in the county. It would be the first law of its kind in the nation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Supporters say this ban on so-called factory farms is an issue of animal welfare and environmental protection, while opponents see it as an existential threat to the farming economy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC1990897213&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:02:53] Locals will tell you about the “Sonoma aroma,” which is on certain days when the weather conditions are right, there’s a waft of manure smell all over the valley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:09] Gabe Malin is senior editor of arts and culture for KQED. He’s based in Sonoma County.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:03:16] Any drive out to like the coast or on Petaluma Hill Road or between Petaluma and Point Reyes – just cows on the hills everywhere. Cows. Sheep. Goats. And there are some big dairy brands up there too, that everybody knows. Clover Farms and Strauss Creamery.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:36] I’ve never actually heard that idea of the Sonoma aroma. Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:03:41] It’s like our version of the Santa Ana winds or something.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:44] Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like that smell is actually something I associate with a place like the Central Valley, which Sonoma County is not, right? Like, at the end of the day, it is still in the Bay Area and is therefore also still a liberal place compared to maybe an Iowa or a central valley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:04:05] It is really interesting in Sonoma County because it is this progressive liberal place and then you think of farming or animal farming as like, the heartland, the old way of doing things, the more conservative way of doing things. I think we coexist pretty well up there. There is a history of support for animal welfare in Sonoma County. There are a number of propositions on the ballot recently, Prop 2 and Prop 12 that Sonoma County voters were in favor of. And proponents of Measure J are saying, hey, Sonoma County, you voted for these animal welfare props before. Why wouldn’t you also vote for this one?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:04:44] Yeah, let’s get into Measure J. How did this get on the ballot, Gabe?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:04:49] A measure J was put on the ballot by a group based in Berkeley called the Coalition to End Factory Farming, and that is a group of advocacy organizations and activist organizations and animal welfare organizations. They got the signatures and they put it on the ballot. So Measure J would ban concentrated animal feeding operations, CAFOs for short. The Yes on J people like to refer to them as factory farms, and the No on J people refute that. It’s a EPA designation. It’s a water permit requirement, but it does set numbers for the amount of animals that can be held at a farm before they are considered a for. Large CFOs are defined as having 700 mature dairy cows or 85,000 egg laying hens or 25,000 meat producing chickens. The numbers are a little bit lower for medium CAFOs, but one of the designations of a medium CAFO is if it has a manmade ditch or pipe. Transferring waste to surface water. There’s some debate about how what that would actually apply to in Sonoma County. This measure would ban or it would force large farms to curtail operations to be under these limits. It would affect at least 11, very likely, 21 of the largest farms in Sonoma County.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:23] Who are the proponents of Measure J, Gabe?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:06:27] Supporters on the Yes on J site are Coalition To End Factory Farming and all of the people that make up that coalition. The Peace and Justice Center, a very lefty liberal group in Santa Rosa, the Green Party, which some people may scoff at. But Sebastopol at one point had all Green Party members on it, City Council in Sonoma County. So the Green Party does have influence in Sonoma County in defense of animals. Other animal advocacy organizations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:59] And also notably this group, Direct Action Everywhere. Yes. Tell me a little bit about them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:07:06] Ah yes, the boogie man. Direct action everywhere has been brought up so many times in relation to Measure J. Some people think that they directly put it on the ballot. I direct action Everywhere is a is an activist group based in Berkeley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Footage \u003c/strong>[00:07:22] (sound of ducks) Put down that gate. Yeah, you can run.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:07:26] In Sonoma County. They’re best known for breaking into farms in the middle of the night and filming operations, you know, unannounced, which they say is the only way that the public can get a true picture of how animals are treated in these farms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lewis Bernier \u003c/strong>[00:07:43] We have a right under California penal code 597 E to enter any facility where we know animals are sick or injured or do not have access to food and water.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:07:52] Some people think that they’re operating in the shadows with marionette strings. But it is true that there is a lot of overlap between direct action everywhere and Measure J.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:08:04] And what are the arguments for Measure J?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:08:09] These people believe that animals feel emotions and they feel things like stress and fear and that they are being mistreated as a as a result of some of these exposes by direct action everywhere.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kristina Garfinkel \u003c/strong>[00:08:21] The CAFOs in Sonoma County have been exposed for rampant animal cruelty, including birds that have been left sick and injured to just starve to death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:08:31] Kristina Garfinkel is a lead organizer of the Coalition to End Factory Farming. She spoke at a KRCB town hall at a local library recently.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kristina Garfinkel \u003c/strong>[00:08:41] They’ve also polluted our local water sources with key waterways like the Petaluma River, Laguna de Santa Rosa being impaired with nitrates and phosphates, which are key indicators of CAFO waste pollution.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:08:56] Her support of Measure J is about animal welfare, is about environmental protection. It’s about public health and this perceived threat to small farms in Sonoma County.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kristina Garfinkel \u003c/strong>[00:09:06] But over the last few decades, large companies have been coming in. They’ve been consolidating and they’ve been taking over the market. And they’ve done so at the cost of small farms, of animal welfare, of the environment and the health of the residents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:26] Why are there eyes set on Sonoma County though?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:09:30] Gabe I think because Sonoma County is more likely to vote for it than say, Tulare County or San Joaquin County. Like there’s enough of that progressive mindset in Sonoma County that might say, ban factory farms. Of course, they think it has a chance in Sonoma County. It’s also really seen as a bellwether measure. Like if it passes in Sonoma County, they’ve essentially said we’re going to try it in other counties as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:10:03] And who’s coming out against Measure J and what are their arguments?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:10:07] Well, Ericka, can you read the tiny, small print on this mailer that I got in the mail the other day?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:10:14] That is a long list.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:10:16] I didn’t count, but it looks like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds. A funny moment in this measure. History is when the the board of supervisors has to rubber stamp it and say, okay, it’s going on the ballot. And they did so plugging their noses. They almost protested in place while they were doing it. Similarly, in just about every city council in Sonoma County, except for Cotati, which was neutral, but all the other city councils in Sonoma County have passed resolutions against it. You know, there are some obvious ones like the Marin Agricultural Land Trust, the Sonoma County Farm Bureau, both the Sonoma County Republican Party and Sonoma Valley Democrats are against it. Sonoma County Conservation Action and the Sonoma County Farm Bureau oppose it. When you have in Sonoma County, you know, those are strange bedfellows. North Bay Labor Council are recognizable businesses like Dellinger Winery, Freedman Brothers, Martinelli Winery, and the list goes on and on and on and on. They’ve really gotten a lot of people to sign up against this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:18] What is the main argument, you would say, Gabe, that they’re making against Measure J.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:11:24] The argument is that it would put out of business, you know, these family owned farms that have been around for over 100 years, some of them that it would create higher food costs and have less locally sourced food. They’re saying that it comes with certain mandates with no plan for funding them, so it would cost taxpayers millions of dollars. They cite a University of California study that has estimated the damage to the economy in Sonoma County at $500 million. The details of that are a little bit in dispute. Really, you know, making a major, major devastating impact on farming in Sonoma County and the economy as a whole.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Mike Weber \u003c/strong>[00:12:07] Well, it’s it’s pretty clear that the measure is designed to ban farming in Sonoma County.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:12:13] Mike Weber is the owner of Weber Family Farms Poultry Farm in Sonoma County. One of his big points is you can’t do this regulating size.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Mike Weber \u003c/strong>[00:12:24] Size doesn’t matter. This has got to be about merit. If you’re doing something wrong, if you’re breaking the rules, then you need the punishment. Otherwise, it’s on merit. And this has nothing to do with merit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:12:34] Farms are already under audits and investigations and county, state, federal regulations. You know, these auditors and regulators come and show up and do very, very in-depth inspections of their farms. And when there’s a bad actor, they get penalized or they get sued. So if you have a good actor, what’s the point of reducing the size of their operation if their operation is operating within the regulations that have been set?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Mike Weber \u003c/strong>[00:13:01] This measure will go to put us out of business. We won’t have milk, eggs and other fresh produce from this community. We’ll be left with nothing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:13:10] There’s some interesting language in this measure. One of them is about authorizing citizen enforcement. But there’s another one about job retraining program for people who would lose their jobs. People who work at these farms who would lose their jobs. The county agricultural commissioner would have to develop and execute and manage a job retraining program for people who lose their jobs on farms. That would close. The No on J. Crowd is saying it’s not just the people who work at the farms. This is going to cause exponential job losses. You know, everyone down the food chain, the truckers, the grocers, the suppliers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:48] It seems like the yes and the no sides are not quite on the same page in a lot of ways, even just in the language that they’re using around this measure, around what to call these farms, whether they’re factory farms versus family farms. I mean, those mean very different things.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:14:09] They do mean very different things. I mean, this is not new in politics, but the. Yes. Underside prefers the term factory farms, I think because it has that resonance with people when you hear factory farm. I think most people in the Bay Area think of Harris Ranch, which is on I-5, halfway to L.A. You know it because you smell it before you see it. It is a gigantic, gigantic factory farm. It’s a really big there’s no farms in Sonoma County that are even remotely close to Harris Ranch. A lot of them that would fall under this ban are pasture grazing farms, which means that cows can roam the hills. They’re not confined in these like, dirty, smelly warehouses. But the No and J crowd loves to say family farms. And yeah, they’re definitely family farms. They’ve been in the family for a long time. Does that mean that they’re inherently good or bad? I mean, the Koch brothers is a family business, technically, Right? So but I think that’s all just about resonance with voters. You know, family farms, good factory farms, bad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:15:18] You brought into the studio, these large mailers that you got in your man box. I’m curious how they fit those in there. There seems to be a lot of campaign spending. What do we know about how much has been spent?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:15:31] There’s been at least it might be more by now, but there’s been at least $2 million in campaign spending that has just poured in, a lot of it from outside the county. Because like I said, this is seen as a canary in the coal mine for other counties to face bans on their ballots, too. Most of it is no longer spending, but $2 million is a lot of money, especially from Sonoma County.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:16:02] You’ve lived there your whole life. I’m curious what the last couple of months have been like in Sonoma County. How do you see Measure J in your community and how it’s sort of being received? And have you ever seen anything like it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:16:17] I’ve never seen this much money poured in for a county measure, and I’ve never seen this many billboards for and against it. But I’m also not seeing like fistfights at the soccer game, you know, on the weekend .\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Protesters \u003c/strong>[00:16:31] Protect our water, Yes on J!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:16:36] There, there have been large protests. And in downtown Santa Rosa, we’d like to protest one side on one side of the street and one on the other. So there’s been, you know, large. Yes on J people and large no on J people. The No on J crowd has been bigger and louder.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:16:58] This ballot measure, should it pass, would be the first of its kind in the country. Really, Gabe, what do you think this story tells us about, I guess, the broader struggle between. Animal rights activists and the agricultural industry. It’s sort of feels like a very Bay Area struggle to me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:17:20] It does. It’s a little bit of a generational one, too, I’ve noticed. Have you ever heard of Clo the Cow?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:17:26] I have heard of Clo the Cow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:17:28] The cow is like our mascot. Clo the cow is the mascot for Clover Stornetta Farms. Clo the cow gives out free ice cream and free chocolate milk to kids at the fair. Clo The cow is that Wednesday night market at every single street fair like. And there’s a billboard right near Rohnert Park that says Save Clo, Vote No.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gabe Meline \u003c/strong>[00:17:56] It’s also an industry that you can’t really whitewash it. It kills animals. Voting against Measure J is going with the status quo, literally. And, you know, if you’re against killing animals, even for food. Voting for it is pushing in a, you know, ostensibly moral direction.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/12010140/sonoma-measure-j-thebay","authors":["8654","185","11831","11649"],"programs":["news_28779"],"categories":["news_8","news_33520"],"tags":["news_4092","news_2549","news_32839","news_34683","news_33812","news_34574","news_4981","news_22598"],"featImg":"news_12010141","label":"source_news_12010140"}},"programsReducer":{"possible":{"id":"possible","title":"Possible","info":"Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. 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You ask the questions. You decide what Bay Curious investigates. 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You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","imageAlt":"KQED MindShift: How We Will Learn","officialWebsiteLink":"/mindshift/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":11},"link":"/podcasts/mindshift","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mindshift-podcast/id1078765985","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5","npr":"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/464615685/mind-shift-podcast","stitcher":"https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/stories-teachers-share","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/0MxSpNYZKNprFLCl7eEtyx"}},"morning-edition":{"id":"morning-edition","title":"Morning Edition","info":"\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. 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On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/On-Our-Watch-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","imageAlt":"On Our Watch from NPR and KQED","officialWebsiteLink":"/podcasts/onourwatch","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":10},"link":"/podcasts/onourwatch","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1567098962","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5ucHIub3JnLzUxMDM2MC9wb2RjYXN0LnhtbD9zYz1nb29nbGVwb2RjYXN0cw","npr":"https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/onourwatch","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/0OLWoyizopu6tY1XiuX70x","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/On-Our-Watch-p1436229/","stitcher":"https://www.stitcher.com/show/on-our-watch","rss":"https://feeds.npr.org/510360/podcast.xml"}},"on-the-media":{"id":"on-the-media","title":"On The Media","info":"Our weekly podcast explores how the media 'sausage' is made, casts an incisive eye on fluctuations in the marketplace of ideas, and examines threats to the freedom of information and expression in America and abroad. 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