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"slug": "lady-gaga-mayhem-ball-tour-san-francisco-chase-center-parking-bag-policy",
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"content": "\u003cp>And the category is … \u003ca href=\"https://www.vogue.com/article/coachella-lady-gaga-fashion-performance-headline-act\">glamorous\u003c/a> \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_jZvWlS0wU&list=RDp_jZvWlS0wU&start_radio=1\">gothic dreams\u003c/a> for three nights in San Francisco, when Lady Gaga’s \u003cem>Mayhem Ball \u003c/em>tour comes to Chase Center on \u003ca href=\"https://chasecenter.com/lady-gaga-chase-center-july-2025/\">July 22, 24 and 26. \u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kicking off the week before in Las Vegas, Gaga’s first global arena tour since 2018 comes on the heels of her Coachella appearances as headliner — an opera-inspired, multi-act performance with all the nightmarish cinematic flair the artist (who \u003ca href=\"https://sfstandard.com/2025/06/14/searching-for-lady-gaga-in-marin/\">may or may not now live in the Bay Area\u003c/a>) has become known for over her almost 20-year career.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Or as one longstanding \u003ca href=\"https://ladygaga.fandom.com/wiki/Little_Monsters_(fanbase)\">Little Monster\u003c/a> friend who saw the Coachella show told me approvingly: “We have endured people calling Lady Gaga weird in the 2010s. Now we reap the benefits.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://x.com/allurequinn/status/1908616213833670670?s=46&t=7BBzFwo6eYLzJIVfAlumEQ\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So if you’re prepared to \u003ca href=\"https://i.ytimg.com/an_webp/vBynw9Isr28/mqdefault_6s.webp?du=3000&sqp=CKm6lsMG&rs=AOn4CLBUsbeIOC5CyIpOpdfjTUQDKDiYAQ\">dance or die\u003c/a>, keep reading for everything you need to know about seeing Lady Gaga later this month, from the Chase Center’s bag policy to parking, tickets and more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And be sure to \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/ChaseCenter\">follow Chase Center on social media\u003c/a> for any last-minute updates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jump straight to:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"#chase-center-bag-policy\">What’s the Chase Center bag policy for the Lady Gaga show?\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"#lady-gaga-tickets\">Can I still get tickets for \u003ci>The Mayhem Ball \u003c/i>tour?\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"#chase-center-parking\">Where is parking for Chase Center?\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"#lady-gaga-party-sf\">Are there any Lady Gaga afterparties?\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>What time does the show at Chase Center start?\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>For all three days, doors are \u003ca href=\"https://chasecenter.com/events/lady-gaga-20250722/\">slated to open at 7 p.m., with the show scheduled to start at 8 p.m. \u003c/a> For previous shows on this tour, she gets on stage a little later, closer to 8:30 or 8:40.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San Francisco will be \u003ca href=\"https://www.ladygaga.com/us-en/live\">Gaga’s second stop on the \u003cem>Mayhem Ball\u003c/em>\u003c/a> global tour after her opening shows in Las Vegas. \u003ca href=\"https://variety.com/2025/music/concert-reviews/lady-gaga-mayhem-ball-opening-las-vegas-concert-review-1236463511/\">The Vegas shows have clocked in at 2 hours and 12 minutes long\u003c/a>, so prepare for a long night and getting home late.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you don’t mind spoilers, \u003ca href=\"https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/music/2025/07/17/lady-gaga-setlist-mayhem-ball-tour/85246282007/\">the full \u003cem>Mayhem Ball\u003c/em> setlist has also been reported. \u003c/a>(For folks with light sensitivity, there are some flashing lights during the concert.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/PopCrave/status/1945699128932983138\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>What’s the Chase Center bag policy?\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Backpacks (except for single-compartment drawstring bags) of any kind are prohibited from entering Chase Center.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Any other bag you bring, including diaper bags, must be smaller than 14 x 14 x 6 inches in size.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bags that do not meet the requirements can be checked at one of Chase’s two bag check locations for a fee of $10. Bag check is at the corner of 16th Street and Terry Francois Boulevard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here are some more \u003ca href=\"https://www.chasecenter.com/a-to-z-guide\">things you cannot bring into \u003cem>The Mayhem Ball\u003c/em> at Chase Center\u003c/a>:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>Bottles and cans\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Refillable water bottles or cups\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Signs over 11 x 17 inches or attached to any pole or stick\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Masks that cover the whole face. (Face coverings to lower your risks of catching — or spreading — COVID-19, like N95 masks, are allowed. Limited face paint is accepted.)\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Lights, tripods and professional recording equipment. Flash photography is not allowed\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Noise-making devices, such as air horns, whistles or cowbells\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Weapons and self-defense items of any kind, including mace, knives and tasers\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Selfie sticks\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>What else \u003cem>can\u003c/em> you bring to Chase Center? These items include:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>Baby bags, plastic bottles and formula\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Strollers that can be checked in at Portals 13 or 52 during the event.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Umbrellas\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>While portable phone chargers are not prohibited, Chase Center also offers charging stations compatible with most cellphone devices. Guests may rent a portable charger to take back to their seats for $5 per hour.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12046988\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12046988\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/Lady-Gaga-Mayhem-Tour-SF-2.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/Lady-Gaga-Mayhem-Tour-SF-2.png 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/Lady-Gaga-Mayhem-Tour-SF-2-160x107.png 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/Lady-Gaga-Mayhem-Tour-SF-2-1536x1024.png 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Lady Gaga performs at the Coachella Stage during the 2025 Coachella Valley Music and Arts Festival at Empire Polo Club on April 11, 2025, in Indio, California. \u003ccite>(Kevin Mazur/Getty Images for Coachella)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>How do I know if I’ve got a good seat at \u003cem>The Mayhem Ball \u003c/em>tour Chase Center show?\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>If you are anxious about anything obscuring your sight of the stage or how you want to get to your seat fast, you can check out the view from your seat using \u003ca href=\"https://warriors.io-media.com/web/index.html\">Chase Center’s Virtual Venue map\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>What should I know about accessibility at Chase Center?\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Chase Center addresses questions about accessibility in its online \u003ca href=\"https://www.chasecenter.com/a-to-z-guide\">A to Z Guide\u003c/a>, which includes information about accessible parking, hearing assistance, ADA-compliant restrooms and service animals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The venue said guests can request complimentary wheelchair escorts by visiting the kiosks located at \u003ca href=\"https://cdn.nba.com/teams/uploads/sites/1610612744/2024/02/CC_Portals_Map_Update_3202x2550_2024-.jpg\">Portal 13 \u003c/a>or texting 833-CC4-FANS.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To schedule an American Sign Language interpreter, guests should contact guestexperiences@warriors.com ahead of time.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"chase-center-parking\">\u003c/a>What should I know about parking at and near Chase Center?\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Chase Center has \u003ca href=\"https://chasecenter.com/plan-your-visit/transportation/parking/\">a guide to its parking garage.\u003c/a> The venue’s website also refers fans to the \u003ca href=\"https://spothero.com/search?kind=destination&id=74629&%243p=a_hasoffers&%24affiliate_json=http%3A%2F%2Ftracking.spothero.com%2Faff_c%3Foffer_id%3D1%26aff_id%3D1753%26source%3Dchasecenter%26aff_sub2%3Dparkingpage%26aff_sub3%3Dlink%26format%3Djson&_branch_match_id=1355649275202063070&utm_source=Partnerships&utm_campaign=Tune_Platform&utm_medium=paid+advertising&_branch_referrer=H4sIAAAAAAAAA32RTW%2FDIAyGf004tgn0Q5uEpmnVjrtUOyNCTGFNAgOyqZf%2B9pl0S9tVm8QBvzbm8WuTko%2F383n0LhkIbia9n7W2389TrDx9ed9C9bBzsqWckoIumOdSGBmd1hAiicpAB9zkLmRv%2B4Y3EJPtZbKuJ0fVWrUXtuFVSbXWK1bqhjIKy7qmAMAaVdcLRUl0Q1DAFTYGBX2CQIbQntoW7LGgz3huEFE7QxYMa5YZsGCbC8SCrsYLUmCiwnCiyvG%2FXGOxi0moIQTo1QFfvG43k%2Fwh2wFQK7OC5K5vZDgIP9StjYiKKcxEI4XU2rZWJviWxnnxfjExyqPPqFLyg8wr4mUy%2FGpUcg3FESmvZvpDvEXXj%2BZN3qUgFa5nN5tMVK5DHd8Ihdb9sijLp2C9ZH%2Fz5rI41BnZy5D7e7mDc4Jh4rSolXahkwnjzEYM8vObfZILV3lJcPr1YkXvyDEA0gVsL%2BrgPiME%2FmSC6%2BALoFelur0CAAA%3D&view=dl\">third-party parking website SpotHero\u003c/a> for other non-Chase Center parking options nearby.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are also cheaper parking options farther away. So, if you’re driving to the show but haven’t secured your parking yet, consider wearing comfier shoes for the walk over and back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Accessible parking is available on a first-come, first-served basis. You can email guestexperiences@warriors.com for more details.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>What about using rideshare services like Lyft and Uber at Chase Center?\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>While getting to the venue using a rideshare service might be fairly smooth, trying to find a car after the show is almost \u003cem>certainly\u003c/em> going to be a challenge — and this author is speaking from personal experience. Due to surge pricing, it will also be far more expensive to get an Uber or Lyft as you exit the venue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are\u003ca href=\"https://images.ctfassets.net/0lzgl3qjkmm1/6k8OJ6yu4tTfjV4wHsmKTG/0b4cc696d2b3f2360ad34bbc16ffbffd/uber-map.png\"> multiple designated pickup and drop-off zones\u003c/a> located within one block of Chase Center. Upon arrival, use one of the designated passenger loading zones (white curbs) along Terry A Francois Boulevard for a safe curbside drop-off.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As you leave the show, rideshare apps will automatically display the best places to get picked up within a five-minute walk radius.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Accessible drop-offs and pickups are\u003ca href=\"https://www.chasecenter.com/plan-your-visit/visitor-info/\"> along the curb of 16th Street and Terry Francois Boulevard\u003c/a>, with accessible entry and exit from the East Entrance. For folks with mobility considerations, the venue can provide a wheelchair to transport guests from Thrive City Plaza or the main lobby to their seats. You can request a wheelchair by texting 833-CC4FANS.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>What’s the best way to take public transit to \u003cem>The Mayhem Ball\u003c/em>?\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Public transit schedules can always be subject to change. Check the timings for your route on the day of the show itself, and be sure of your very last service home. Chase Center has a \u003ca href=\"https://chasecenter.com/transportation-guide\">comprehensive guide to public transportation\u003c/a> on its website.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/CC_BM_20231005_CC_Transportation_MapCC_BM_20231005_CC_Transportation_Map_1080x1080.jpg\" width=\"1080\" height=\"1080\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>SF Muni\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Any Chase Center patron who shows their event ticket at Muni turnstiles and boarding platforms can \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfmta.com/fares/your-chase-center-event-ticket-your-muni-fare\">ride Muni \u003cem>without \u003c/em>charge\u003c/a>. (This offer will expire at 2 a.m.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There is a Muni Metro rail stop serving the venue on the T Third Street line, which connects Chinatown and Sunnydale. See \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfmta.com/routes/t-third-street\">the Muni Metro schedule\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>BART\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Several BART stations have convenient connections to get to the venue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Muni Route 22 connects to the 16th Street and Mission BART station. This stop is located on Third Street and Gene Friend Way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Muni Route 15 serves as a connection to the Montgomery Street BART station. This stop is located on Third Street and Warriors Way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can transfer to the new Union Square Muni Metro rail station from Powell BART station via the underground corridor to take the T Third Street line or S Shuttle Mission Bay line to the UCSF/Chase Center stop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can find more information and schedules \u003ca href=\"https://www.bart.gov/\">on the BART website\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Caltrain\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you take Caltrain to San Francisco, you can walk 15–20 minutes along Fourth Street and turn left on Gene Friend Way to Chase Center.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can also transfer from the Caltrain station to the Muni Metro T Third Street platform, which is located across the street, and take Muni to the UCSF/Chase Center stop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since one of the shows is on a Saturday, be sure to check \u003ca href=\"https://www.caltrain.com/event/lady-gaga-mayhem-tour-0\">the Caltrain’s weekend schedule to make sure when the last train leaves.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.caltrain.com/news/going-gaga-go-caltrain\">Riders 18 and under can ride for $1\u003c/a> one way or buy a Day Pass for $2.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Caltrain will also be hosting \u003ca href=\"https://www.caltrain.com/news/going-gaga-go-caltrain\">a themed Gaga train for the first show on July 22\u003c/a>, with merch giveaways plus an on-board costume and lookalike contest. Fans can\u003ca href=\"https://www.eventbrite.com/e/go-gaga-go-caltrain-tickets-1497755971429?aff=ebdsoporgprofile\"> sign up for the experience on Eventbrite.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Biking\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chase Center offers guests free bike valet for the first 300 bikes an hour before start time. The valet is available along 16th Street and closes an hour after the show ends.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Public bike parking is available along 16th Street and Terry Francois Boulevard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There is also a \u003ca href=\"https://www.lyft.com/bikes/bay-wheels\">Lyft/Bay Wheels bike share station\u003c/a> at the intersection of Warriors Way and Terry Francois Boulevard. While they’re convenient and easy to use, the limited availability of these bikes means you should have a backup plan — or you might get stranded.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"lady-gaga-tickets\">\u003c/a>Can I still get a ticket to \u003ci>The Mayhem Ball \u003c/i>tour?\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>According to Ticketmaster, \u003ca href=\"https://www.ticketmaster.com/event/1C006289EF1E3F45\">tickets are still available\u003c/a>, with the lowest currently selling for around $190. You may find better deals with resale tickets on sites like \u003ca href=\"https://www.stubhub.com/lady-gaga-san-francisco-tickets-7-22-2025/event/158018872/\">StubHub.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Make sure you are not purchasing fake tickets, especially with offers to sell online. Read more tips about \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11956083/taylor-swift-levis-stadium-eras-santa-clara-tickets#taylorswifttickets\">avoiding ticket resale scams\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"lady-gaga-party-sf\">\u003c/a>Are there any Lady Gaga afterparties?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Oh, most definitely. There are also \u003cem>Mayhem\u003c/em>-inspired parties leading up to the concert week, including:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>July 11: \u003c/strong>\u003ca href=\"https://www.eventbrite.com/e/gaga-lipa-beaux-sf-in-the-castro-presented-by-shyboy-tickets-1435782797999?aff=ebdssbdestsearch\">Gaga Lipa at Beaux in San Francisco\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>July 12: \u003c/strong>\u003ca href=\"https://www.eventbrite.com/e/mayhem-in-the-castro-lady-gaga-tribute-night-tickets-1425613912589?aff=ebdssbdestsearch\">Mayhem in the Castro – Lady Gaga Tribute Night!\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\nat QBar in San Francisco\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>July 12: \u003c/strong>\u003ca href=\"https://www.ticketweb.com/event/dance-romance-a-lady-gaga-cafe-du-nord-tickets/14499913?pl=cdn&REFID=clientsitewp\">DANCE ROMANCE\u003c/a> at Cafe Du Nord in San Francisco\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>July 22, 24 and 26: \u003c/strong>\u003ca href=\"https://www.eventbrite.com/e/lady-gaga-party-at-splash-tickets-1413409167869?aff=ebdssbdestsearch\">Lady Gaga Party at \u003c/a>Splash Sports Bar in San Francisco\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>July 24: \u003c/strong>The \u003ca href=\"https://www.eventbrite.com/e/the-gaga-mayhem-ball-afterparty-presented-by-princess-tickets-1368876800359?aff=ebdssbdestsearch\">GAGA MAYHEM BALL AFTERPARTY\u003c/a> at Oasis in San Francisco\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>July 25: \u003c/strong>\u003ca href=\"https://www.eventbrite.com/e/warped-presents-the-mayhem-ball-afterparty-all-gaga-dance-party-tickets-1390173208489?aff=ebdssbdestsearch\">The Mayhem Ball Afterparty \u003c/a>at Jolene’s in San Francisco.\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story originally published on July 8.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>And the category is … \u003ca href=\"https://www.vogue.com/article/coachella-lady-gaga-fashion-performance-headline-act\">glamorous\u003c/a> \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_jZvWlS0wU&list=RDp_jZvWlS0wU&start_radio=1\">gothic dreams\u003c/a> for three nights in San Francisco, when Lady Gaga’s \u003cem>Mayhem Ball \u003c/em>tour comes to Chase Center on \u003ca href=\"https://chasecenter.com/lady-gaga-chase-center-july-2025/\">July 22, 24 and 26. \u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kicking off the week before in Las Vegas, Gaga’s first global arena tour since 2018 comes on the heels of her Coachella appearances as headliner — an opera-inspired, multi-act performance with all the nightmarish cinematic flair the artist (who \u003ca href=\"https://sfstandard.com/2025/06/14/searching-for-lady-gaga-in-marin/\">may or may not now live in the Bay Area\u003c/a>) has become known for over her almost 20-year career.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Or as one longstanding \u003ca href=\"https://ladygaga.fandom.com/wiki/Little_Monsters_(fanbase)\">Little Monster\u003c/a> friend who saw the Coachella show told me approvingly: “We have endured people calling Lady Gaga weird in the 2010s. Now we reap the benefits.”\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>So if you’re prepared to \u003ca href=\"https://i.ytimg.com/an_webp/vBynw9Isr28/mqdefault_6s.webp?du=3000&sqp=CKm6lsMG&rs=AOn4CLBUsbeIOC5CyIpOpdfjTUQDKDiYAQ\">dance or die\u003c/a>, keep reading for everything you need to know about seeing Lady Gaga later this month, from the Chase Center’s bag policy to parking, tickets and more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And be sure to \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/ChaseCenter\">follow Chase Center on social media\u003c/a> for any last-minute updates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jump straight to:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"#chase-center-bag-policy\">What’s the Chase Center bag policy for the Lady Gaga show?\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"#lady-gaga-tickets\">Can I still get tickets for \u003ci>The Mayhem Ball \u003c/i>tour?\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"#chase-center-parking\">Where is parking for Chase Center?\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"#lady-gaga-party-sf\">Are there any Lady Gaga afterparties?\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>What time does the show at Chase Center start?\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>For all three days, doors are \u003ca href=\"https://chasecenter.com/events/lady-gaga-20250722/\">slated to open at 7 p.m., with the show scheduled to start at 8 p.m. \u003c/a> For previous shows on this tour, she gets on stage a little later, closer to 8:30 or 8:40.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San Francisco will be \u003ca href=\"https://www.ladygaga.com/us-en/live\">Gaga’s second stop on the \u003cem>Mayhem Ball\u003c/em>\u003c/a> global tour after her opening shows in Las Vegas. \u003ca href=\"https://variety.com/2025/music/concert-reviews/lady-gaga-mayhem-ball-opening-las-vegas-concert-review-1236463511/\">The Vegas shows have clocked in at 2 hours and 12 minutes long\u003c/a>, so prepare for a long night and getting home late.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you don’t mind spoilers, \u003ca href=\"https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/music/2025/07/17/lady-gaga-setlist-mayhem-ball-tour/85246282007/\">the full \u003cem>Mayhem Ball\u003c/em> setlist has also been reported. \u003c/a>(For folks with light sensitivity, there are some flashing lights during the concert.)\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>What’s the Chase Center bag policy?\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Backpacks (except for single-compartment drawstring bags) of any kind are prohibited from entering Chase Center.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Any other bag you bring, including diaper bags, must be smaller than 14 x 14 x 6 inches in size.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bags that do not meet the requirements can be checked at one of Chase’s two bag check locations for a fee of $10. Bag check is at the corner of 16th Street and Terry Francois Boulevard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here are some more \u003ca href=\"https://www.chasecenter.com/a-to-z-guide\">things you cannot bring into \u003cem>The Mayhem Ball\u003c/em> at Chase Center\u003c/a>:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>Bottles and cans\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Refillable water bottles or cups\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Signs over 11 x 17 inches or attached to any pole or stick\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Masks that cover the whole face. (Face coverings to lower your risks of catching — or spreading — COVID-19, like N95 masks, are allowed. Limited face paint is accepted.)\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Lights, tripods and professional recording equipment. Flash photography is not allowed\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Noise-making devices, such as air horns, whistles or cowbells\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Weapons and self-defense items of any kind, including mace, knives and tasers\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Selfie sticks\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>What else \u003cem>can\u003c/em> you bring to Chase Center? These items include:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>Baby bags, plastic bottles and formula\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Strollers that can be checked in at Portals 13 or 52 during the event.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Umbrellas\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>While portable phone chargers are not prohibited, Chase Center also offers charging stations compatible with most cellphone devices. Guests may rent a portable charger to take back to their seats for $5 per hour.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12046988\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12046988\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/Lady-Gaga-Mayhem-Tour-SF-2.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/Lady-Gaga-Mayhem-Tour-SF-2.png 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/Lady-Gaga-Mayhem-Tour-SF-2-160x107.png 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/Lady-Gaga-Mayhem-Tour-SF-2-1536x1024.png 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Lady Gaga performs at the Coachella Stage during the 2025 Coachella Valley Music and Arts Festival at Empire Polo Club on April 11, 2025, in Indio, California. \u003ccite>(Kevin Mazur/Getty Images for Coachella)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>How do I know if I’ve got a good seat at \u003cem>The Mayhem Ball \u003c/em>tour Chase Center show?\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>If you are anxious about anything obscuring your sight of the stage or how you want to get to your seat fast, you can check out the view from your seat using \u003ca href=\"https://warriors.io-media.com/web/index.html\">Chase Center’s Virtual Venue map\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>What should I know about accessibility at Chase Center?\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Chase Center addresses questions about accessibility in its online \u003ca href=\"https://www.chasecenter.com/a-to-z-guide\">A to Z Guide\u003c/a>, which includes information about accessible parking, hearing assistance, ADA-compliant restrooms and service animals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The venue said guests can request complimentary wheelchair escorts by visiting the kiosks located at \u003ca href=\"https://cdn.nba.com/teams/uploads/sites/1610612744/2024/02/CC_Portals_Map_Update_3202x2550_2024-.jpg\">Portal 13 \u003c/a>or texting 833-CC4-FANS.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To schedule an American Sign Language interpreter, guests should contact guestexperiences@warriors.com ahead of time.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"chase-center-parking\">\u003c/a>What should I know about parking at and near Chase Center?\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Chase Center has \u003ca href=\"https://chasecenter.com/plan-your-visit/transportation/parking/\">a guide to its parking garage.\u003c/a> The venue’s website also refers fans to the \u003ca href=\"https://spothero.com/search?kind=destination&id=74629&%243p=a_hasoffers&%24affiliate_json=http%3A%2F%2Ftracking.spothero.com%2Faff_c%3Foffer_id%3D1%26aff_id%3D1753%26source%3Dchasecenter%26aff_sub2%3Dparkingpage%26aff_sub3%3Dlink%26format%3Djson&_branch_match_id=1355649275202063070&utm_source=Partnerships&utm_campaign=Tune_Platform&utm_medium=paid+advertising&_branch_referrer=H4sIAAAAAAAAA32RTW%2FDIAyGf004tgn0Q5uEpmnVjrtUOyNCTGFNAgOyqZf%2B9pl0S9tVm8QBvzbm8WuTko%2F383n0LhkIbia9n7W2389TrDx9ed9C9bBzsqWckoIumOdSGBmd1hAiicpAB9zkLmRv%2B4Y3EJPtZbKuJ0fVWrUXtuFVSbXWK1bqhjIKy7qmAMAaVdcLRUl0Q1DAFTYGBX2CQIbQntoW7LGgz3huEFE7QxYMa5YZsGCbC8SCrsYLUmCiwnCiyvG%2FXGOxi0moIQTo1QFfvG43k%2Fwh2wFQK7OC5K5vZDgIP9StjYiKKcxEI4XU2rZWJviWxnnxfjExyqPPqFLyg8wr4mUy%2FGpUcg3FESmvZvpDvEXXj%2BZN3qUgFa5nN5tMVK5DHd8Ihdb9sijLp2C9ZH%2Fz5rI41BnZy5D7e7mDc4Jh4rSolXahkwnjzEYM8vObfZILV3lJcPr1YkXvyDEA0gVsL%2BrgPiME%2FmSC6%2BALoFelur0CAAA%3D&view=dl\">third-party parking website SpotHero\u003c/a> for other non-Chase Center parking options nearby.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are also cheaper parking options farther away. So, if you’re driving to the show but haven’t secured your parking yet, consider wearing comfier shoes for the walk over and back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Accessible parking is available on a first-come, first-served basis. You can email guestexperiences@warriors.com for more details.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>What about using rideshare services like Lyft and Uber at Chase Center?\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>While getting to the venue using a rideshare service might be fairly smooth, trying to find a car after the show is almost \u003cem>certainly\u003c/em> going to be a challenge — and this author is speaking from personal experience. Due to surge pricing, it will also be far more expensive to get an Uber or Lyft as you exit the venue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are\u003ca href=\"https://images.ctfassets.net/0lzgl3qjkmm1/6k8OJ6yu4tTfjV4wHsmKTG/0b4cc696d2b3f2360ad34bbc16ffbffd/uber-map.png\"> multiple designated pickup and drop-off zones\u003c/a> located within one block of Chase Center. Upon arrival, use one of the designated passenger loading zones (white curbs) along Terry A Francois Boulevard for a safe curbside drop-off.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As you leave the show, rideshare apps will automatically display the best places to get picked up within a five-minute walk radius.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Accessible drop-offs and pickups are\u003ca href=\"https://www.chasecenter.com/plan-your-visit/visitor-info/\"> along the curb of 16th Street and Terry Francois Boulevard\u003c/a>, with accessible entry and exit from the East Entrance. For folks with mobility considerations, the venue can provide a wheelchair to transport guests from Thrive City Plaza or the main lobby to their seats. You can request a wheelchair by texting 833-CC4FANS.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>What’s the best way to take public transit to \u003cem>The Mayhem Ball\u003c/em>?\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Public transit schedules can always be subject to change. Check the timings for your route on the day of the show itself, and be sure of your very last service home. Chase Center has a \u003ca href=\"https://chasecenter.com/transportation-guide\">comprehensive guide to public transportation\u003c/a> on its website.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/02/CC_BM_20231005_CC_Transportation_MapCC_BM_20231005_CC_Transportation_Map_1080x1080.jpg\" width=\"1080\" height=\"1080\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>SF Muni\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Any Chase Center patron who shows their event ticket at Muni turnstiles and boarding platforms can \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfmta.com/fares/your-chase-center-event-ticket-your-muni-fare\">ride Muni \u003cem>without \u003c/em>charge\u003c/a>. (This offer will expire at 2 a.m.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There is a Muni Metro rail stop serving the venue on the T Third Street line, which connects Chinatown and Sunnydale. See \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfmta.com/routes/t-third-street\">the Muni Metro schedule\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>BART\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Several BART stations have convenient connections to get to the venue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Muni Route 22 connects to the 16th Street and Mission BART station. This stop is located on Third Street and Gene Friend Way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Muni Route 15 serves as a connection to the Montgomery Street BART station. This stop is located on Third Street and Warriors Way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can transfer to the new Union Square Muni Metro rail station from Powell BART station via the underground corridor to take the T Third Street line or S Shuttle Mission Bay line to the UCSF/Chase Center stop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can find more information and schedules \u003ca href=\"https://www.bart.gov/\">on the BART website\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Caltrain\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you take Caltrain to San Francisco, you can walk 15–20 minutes along Fourth Street and turn left on Gene Friend Way to Chase Center.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can also transfer from the Caltrain station to the Muni Metro T Third Street platform, which is located across the street, and take Muni to the UCSF/Chase Center stop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since one of the shows is on a Saturday, be sure to check \u003ca href=\"https://www.caltrain.com/event/lady-gaga-mayhem-tour-0\">the Caltrain’s weekend schedule to make sure when the last train leaves.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.caltrain.com/news/going-gaga-go-caltrain\">Riders 18 and under can ride for $1\u003c/a> one way or buy a Day Pass for $2.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Caltrain will also be hosting \u003ca href=\"https://www.caltrain.com/news/going-gaga-go-caltrain\">a themed Gaga train for the first show on July 22\u003c/a>, with merch giveaways plus an on-board costume and lookalike contest. Fans can\u003ca href=\"https://www.eventbrite.com/e/go-gaga-go-caltrain-tickets-1497755971429?aff=ebdsoporgprofile\"> sign up for the experience on Eventbrite.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Biking\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chase Center offers guests free bike valet for the first 300 bikes an hour before start time. The valet is available along 16th Street and closes an hour after the show ends.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Public bike parking is available along 16th Street and Terry Francois Boulevard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There is also a \u003ca href=\"https://www.lyft.com/bikes/bay-wheels\">Lyft/Bay Wheels bike share station\u003c/a> at the intersection of Warriors Way and Terry Francois Boulevard. While they’re convenient and easy to use, the limited availability of these bikes means you should have a backup plan — or you might get stranded.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"lady-gaga-tickets\">\u003c/a>Can I still get a ticket to \u003ci>The Mayhem Ball \u003c/i>tour?\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>According to Ticketmaster, \u003ca href=\"https://www.ticketmaster.com/event/1C006289EF1E3F45\">tickets are still available\u003c/a>, with the lowest currently selling for around $190. You may find better deals with resale tickets on sites like \u003ca href=\"https://www.stubhub.com/lady-gaga-san-francisco-tickets-7-22-2025/event/158018872/\">StubHub.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Make sure you are not purchasing fake tickets, especially with offers to sell online. Read more tips about \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11956083/taylor-swift-levis-stadium-eras-santa-clara-tickets#taylorswifttickets\">avoiding ticket resale scams\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"lady-gaga-party-sf\">\u003c/a>Are there any Lady Gaga afterparties?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Oh, most definitely. There are also \u003cem>Mayhem\u003c/em>-inspired parties leading up to the concert week, including:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>July 11: \u003c/strong>\u003ca href=\"https://www.eventbrite.com/e/gaga-lipa-beaux-sf-in-the-castro-presented-by-shyboy-tickets-1435782797999?aff=ebdssbdestsearch\">Gaga Lipa at Beaux in San Francisco\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>July 12: \u003c/strong>\u003ca href=\"https://www.eventbrite.com/e/mayhem-in-the-castro-lady-gaga-tribute-night-tickets-1425613912589?aff=ebdssbdestsearch\">Mayhem in the Castro – Lady Gaga Tribute Night!\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\nat QBar in San Francisco\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>July 12: \u003c/strong>\u003ca href=\"https://www.ticketweb.com/event/dance-romance-a-lady-gaga-cafe-du-nord-tickets/14499913?pl=cdn&REFID=clientsitewp\">DANCE ROMANCE\u003c/a> at Cafe Du Nord in San Francisco\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>July 22, 24 and 26: \u003c/strong>\u003ca href=\"https://www.eventbrite.com/e/lady-gaga-party-at-splash-tickets-1413409167869?aff=ebdssbdestsearch\">Lady Gaga Party at \u003c/a>Splash Sports Bar in San Francisco\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>July 24: \u003c/strong>The \u003ca href=\"https://www.eventbrite.com/e/the-gaga-mayhem-ball-afterparty-presented-by-princess-tickets-1368876800359?aff=ebdssbdestsearch\">GAGA MAYHEM BALL AFTERPARTY\u003c/a> at Oasis in San Francisco\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>July 25: \u003c/strong>\u003ca href=\"https://www.eventbrite.com/e/warped-presents-the-mayhem-ball-afterparty-all-gaga-dance-party-tickets-1390173208489?aff=ebdssbdestsearch\">The Mayhem Ball Afterparty \u003c/a>at Jolene’s in San Francisco.\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story originally published on July 8.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"slug": "tokimonstas-eternal-reverie-the-los-angeles-djs-dreamy-new-sound",
"title": "Tokimonsta’s ‘Eternal Reverie’: The Los Angeles DJ’s Dreamy New Sound",
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"headTitle": "Tokimonsta’s ‘Eternal Reverie’: The Los Angeles DJ’s Dreamy New Sound | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>Tokimonsta went through a lot in making her new record, \u003cem>Eternal Reverie\u003c/em>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Inspiration for the record’s sound — sunny and joyful, but with an edge — struck at an unlikely moment. Toki was travelling in São Paulo, Brazil, with her friend Regina Biondo, when they spotted a street vendor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s just this young guy with crates and crates of vinyls, with a very beat-up record player and beat-up headphones, just waiting for people to buy these records,” said Tokimonsta, whose real name is Jennifer Lee. “It felt very serendipitous.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rifling through the collection, the Los Angeles-born-and-raised musician — who also goes by Toki — came across a worn-out old record by Brazilian artist Jaime Além, featuring a catchy, disco-inflected track with a soulful vocal called “Disco Fevers.” The song immediately fired up her imagination.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s something special about finding a very dusty sample and being like, ‘How can I give this new life again?’” Toki said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When she got back to her studio in California, Toki put the sample in her music software and cut it up, intuitively picking the best snippets, then rearranging them. Then she programmed drums, followed by synthy chords and strings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was like, I want this to be like a banger. And I created [it] with that sense of freedom,” she said. “I wanted it to sound vintage, nostalgic, gritty, and to have a lot of energy and power behind it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmmEa7dn4cw&list=OLAK5uy_mE6AAvK650TowwoSX1G5xtPKnuANtQzqU&index=2\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The track, which she called “Corazón: Death by Disco Part 2” and features on the new album, took on more meaning than Toki could have predicted when she was making it. Regina Biondo — Toki’s best friend who was with her in Brazil and helped her find the sample —died of cancer last year. Toki postponed the release of her album so she could care for Regina in her final days.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I will never regret that,” she said. “I am happy that this album is out in the world, because it’s important for this journey of mine to share it with people, because it is the way that I can celebrate Regina, but also a way for me to process her loss, because it’s a long road and it hurts a lot.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=news_12041727 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-13-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg']\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I am so grateful, because without her, I would not be the person I am today,” Toki said. “Her legacy and her impact on my life is the way I carry her forever.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Toki grew up in Torrance, a coastal city in southwest L.A., and was mostly raised by her mother, who owned a small business. She started piano lessons at around 6 years old, but she didn’t really love practicing classical pieces. It was a very different sound that captured her imagination as a little girl.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Toki was in the fourth grade, a classmate turned up at school with a CD in his backpack: \u003cem>Dookie,\u003c/em> the third album by the pop-punk band Green Day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He was just showing it off to all the kids, and I was like, ‘Wow, this is really cool.’ It was exuberant, it was wild. It also felt very L.A.; there’s this freedom and sunniness. This punk attitude resonated with me as a very young kid.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Toki didn’t stick to just punk music: soon after, she discovered hip-hop and R&B. She listened to TLC’s iconic “Chasing Waterfalls”, “Gangsta’s Paradise” by Coolio and even Enya — strains of which can all be heard in her music.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRF1NlM6ooQ\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As she was growing up, Toki absorbed all of these sounds and musical textures like a sponge. She also listened to house music and more experimental electronic artists like Aphex Twin and Squarepusher.[aside postID=news_12000787 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240611-DestinyMuhammad-10-BL_qut-1020x680.jpg']This moment, in mid-2000s L.A., was at the beginning of what became known as the Beat Scene: a collective of musicians exploring leftfield electronic music and underground hip-hop. In her late teens, Toki began going to beat ciphers: competitions where musicians play a beat or rappers freestyle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You had 15 seconds to 30 seconds to play a beat, and it had to hit within that amount of time,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Everyone looked at me like [I was] a crazy person, because I didn’t look like someone who’d make heat, like I wouldn’t come with the fire, the bangers or whatever. I was just this Asian girl in South L.A. [But] I played my beats and everyone recognized at that time that it was possible for someone that looked like me to make music that was really authentic and real and also pretty good.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Toki went to club nights at influential venues like Project Blowed and later Low End Theory — using them to sharpen her production skills. “Without being in L.A., I don’t think I would have the gusto to be as experimental as I was when I was younger,” she said. “The city and the community is a very integral part of [who I am] as a musician.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft size-thumbnail wp-image-12047262\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/blue-background3_FINAL-WEB-160x240.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"160\" height=\"240\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/blue-background3_FINAL-WEB-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/blue-background3_FINAL-WEB-2000x2999.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/blue-background3_FINAL-WEB-1024x1536.jpg 1024w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/blue-background3_FINAL-WEB-1366x2048.jpg 1366w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/blue-background3_FINAL-WEB-scaled.jpg 1707w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 160px) 100vw, 160px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Around 2009, she started making music under the name Tokimonsta. “Toki means rabbit in Korean, and monsta … I thought that was a cool way to say monster. I was in high school; it was my iChat name.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the time, she didn’t think the name would stick. “And yet, I’ve grown to also love my name because it represents who I am. I am this soft thing and this hard thing. I am this lightness and I am this darkness, I am this uplifted and strong, and I am this sensitive person.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Toki continued to hone her signature, shapeshifting sound and went on to make five full-length albums, collaborating with Ty Dolla $ign, Ryuichi Sakamoto and Anderson .Paak.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF5RdUzQxjI\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’ve always wanted to push the limits of who I am as a musician — forward, backwards, every direction. That meant being the weird one for a very long time, for making music that people didn’t really understand but somehow resonated [with them].”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW0giCDArjE\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Toki points to a track on \u003cem>Eternal Reverie\u003c/em> called “Say Tell Me” as an example of her reflective side.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The song starts out gentle, but shifts halfway through, the tone mirrored by a heavy arpeggiating bass line.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I always like to think of all my songs as a ‘hero’s journey,’ and to follow that path of, where is this melody taking us? Where is the song taking us? And [so] when the bass comes in, that is the peak moment in that song,” she said. “That is the hero accomplishing its big thing.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-thumbnail wp-image-12047263\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/TOKI-BLUE-AND-SILVER-3-160x240.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"160\" height=\"240\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/TOKI-BLUE-AND-SILVER-3-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/TOKI-BLUE-AND-SILVER-3-1024x1536.jpg 1024w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/TOKI-BLUE-AND-SILVER-3-1366x2048.jpg 1366w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/TOKI-BLUE-AND-SILVER-3.jpg 1451w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 160px) 100vw, 160px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Toki has been on her own epic journey, one with an unimaginable hurdle and a surprising twist for her musical career.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the end of 2015, Toki was diagnosed with Moyamoya disease, a rare and life-threatening blood vessel condition where some arteries become blocked and affect blood flow to the brain. She needed surgery immediately.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The surgery itself comes with all these side effects, which was how I came to have aphasia, how I lost my ability to understand music,” she said. “Those were all because someone tinkered with my brain.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After surgery, music sounded like noise in Toki’s ears: There was no rhythm or melody.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was very disheartening. … I was alive, which is the most important thing. But what is a life without music? What is a life for me without being able to create, which is what brings me joy in life?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Slowly, Toki’s brain gradually began to heal and music started to make sense. After just a few months of recovery, she produced a song called “I Wish I Could,” featuring Belgian artist Selah Sue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It just felt like a heroic feeling,” Toki said. “It was relief. It was joy. It was like, oh my god, ‘I’m back.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHLLeZ6UXP8\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Soon after, Toki was back on stage. During her recovery, she made an album called \u003cem>Lune Rouge\u003c/em>, which was nominated for a Grammy in 2019, making her the first female Asian American producer to be nominated in the dance/electronic album category.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>“\u003c/em>I would love to think that I’m superhuman now, but unfortunately, not. I’m just me, but with less headaches and still alive. So I’m pretty happy with that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite having a singular vision for her work, being in the music industry for decades has taken a toll on Toki. Early last year, the pressures of social media and the demands of touring prompted Toki to take a break from performing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was starting to feel a bit jaded,” she said.“When I sensed that cynical feeling creeping into me, I knew it was time to take a step back.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To regain her energy, Toki spent time with friends going to clubs and underground raves in L.A., focusing on rekindling her eternal love of music.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s important to remember that that dreamer exists, and sometimes I need to be reminded,” she said. “I hope for the rest of my life I remain this inquisitive dreamer forever. I hope that spark never goes away.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Tokimonsta went through a lot in making her new record, \u003cem>Eternal Reverie\u003c/em>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Inspiration for the record’s sound — sunny and joyful, but with an edge — struck at an unlikely moment. Toki was travelling in São Paulo, Brazil, with her friend Regina Biondo, when they spotted a street vendor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s just this young guy with crates and crates of vinyls, with a very beat-up record player and beat-up headphones, just waiting for people to buy these records,” said Tokimonsta, whose real name is Jennifer Lee. “It felt very serendipitous.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rifling through the collection, the Los Angeles-born-and-raised musician — who also goes by Toki — came across a worn-out old record by Brazilian artist Jaime Além, featuring a catchy, disco-inflected track with a soulful vocal called “Disco Fevers.” The song immediately fired up her imagination.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s something special about finding a very dusty sample and being like, ‘How can I give this new life again?’” Toki said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When she got back to her studio in California, Toki put the sample in her music software and cut it up, intuitively picking the best snippets, then rearranging them. Then she programmed drums, followed by synthy chords and strings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was like, I want this to be like a banger. And I created [it] with that sense of freedom,” she said. “I wanted it to sound vintage, nostalgic, gritty, and to have a lot of energy and power behind it.”\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/OmmEa7dn4cw'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/OmmEa7dn4cw'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>The track, which she called “Corazón: Death by Disco Part 2” and features on the new album, took on more meaning than Toki could have predicted when she was making it. Regina Biondo — Toki’s best friend who was with her in Brazil and helped her find the sample —died of cancer last year. Toki postponed the release of her album so she could care for Regina in her final days.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I will never regret that,” she said. “I am happy that this album is out in the world, because it’s important for this journey of mine to share it with people, because it is the way that I can celebrate Regina, but also a way for me to process her loss, because it’s a long road and it hurts a lot.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I am so grateful, because without her, I would not be the person I am today,” Toki said. “Her legacy and her impact on my life is the way I carry her forever.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Toki grew up in Torrance, a coastal city in southwest L.A., and was mostly raised by her mother, who owned a small business. She started piano lessons at around 6 years old, but she didn’t really love practicing classical pieces. It was a very different sound that captured her imagination as a little girl.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Toki was in the fourth grade, a classmate turned up at school with a CD in his backpack: \u003cem>Dookie,\u003c/em> the third album by the pop-punk band Green Day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He was just showing it off to all the kids, and I was like, ‘Wow, this is really cool.’ It was exuberant, it was wild. It also felt very L.A.; there’s this freedom and sunniness. This punk attitude resonated with me as a very young kid.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Toki didn’t stick to just punk music: soon after, she discovered hip-hop and R&B. She listened to TLC’s iconic “Chasing Waterfalls”, “Gangsta’s Paradise” by Coolio and even Enya — strains of which can all be heard in her music.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/YRF1NlM6ooQ'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/YRF1NlM6ooQ'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>As she was growing up, Toki absorbed all of these sounds and musical textures like a sponge. She also listened to house music and more experimental electronic artists like Aphex Twin and Squarepusher.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>This moment, in mid-2000s L.A., was at the beginning of what became known as the Beat Scene: a collective of musicians exploring leftfield electronic music and underground hip-hop. In her late teens, Toki began going to beat ciphers: competitions where musicians play a beat or rappers freestyle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You had 15 seconds to 30 seconds to play a beat, and it had to hit within that amount of time,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Everyone looked at me like [I was] a crazy person, because I didn’t look like someone who’d make heat, like I wouldn’t come with the fire, the bangers or whatever. I was just this Asian girl in South L.A. [But] I played my beats and everyone recognized at that time that it was possible for someone that looked like me to make music that was really authentic and real and also pretty good.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Toki went to club nights at influential venues like Project Blowed and later Low End Theory — using them to sharpen her production skills. “Without being in L.A., I don’t think I would have the gusto to be as experimental as I was when I was younger,” she said. “The city and the community is a very integral part of [who I am] as a musician.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft size-thumbnail wp-image-12047262\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/blue-background3_FINAL-WEB-160x240.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"160\" height=\"240\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/blue-background3_FINAL-WEB-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/blue-background3_FINAL-WEB-2000x2999.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/blue-background3_FINAL-WEB-1024x1536.jpg 1024w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/blue-background3_FINAL-WEB-1366x2048.jpg 1366w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/blue-background3_FINAL-WEB-scaled.jpg 1707w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 160px) 100vw, 160px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Around 2009, she started making music under the name Tokimonsta. “Toki means rabbit in Korean, and monsta … I thought that was a cool way to say monster. I was in high school; it was my iChat name.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the time, she didn’t think the name would stick. “And yet, I’ve grown to also love my name because it represents who I am. I am this soft thing and this hard thing. I am this lightness and I am this darkness, I am this uplifted and strong, and I am this sensitive person.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Toki continued to hone her signature, shapeshifting sound and went on to make five full-length albums, collaborating with Ty Dolla $ign, Ryuichi Sakamoto and Anderson .Paak.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/RF5RdUzQxjI'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/RF5RdUzQxjI'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>“I’ve always wanted to push the limits of who I am as a musician — forward, backwards, every direction. That meant being the weird one for a very long time, for making music that people didn’t really understand but somehow resonated [with them].”\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/bW0giCDArjE'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/bW0giCDArjE'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>Toki points to a track on \u003cem>Eternal Reverie\u003c/em> called “Say Tell Me” as an example of her reflective side.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The song starts out gentle, but shifts halfway through, the tone mirrored by a heavy arpeggiating bass line.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I always like to think of all my songs as a ‘hero’s journey,’ and to follow that path of, where is this melody taking us? Where is the song taking us? And [so] when the bass comes in, that is the peak moment in that song,” she said. “That is the hero accomplishing its big thing.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-thumbnail wp-image-12047263\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/TOKI-BLUE-AND-SILVER-3-160x240.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"160\" height=\"240\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/TOKI-BLUE-AND-SILVER-3-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/TOKI-BLUE-AND-SILVER-3-1024x1536.jpg 1024w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/TOKI-BLUE-AND-SILVER-3-1366x2048.jpg 1366w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/TOKI-BLUE-AND-SILVER-3.jpg 1451w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 160px) 100vw, 160px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Toki has been on her own epic journey, one with an unimaginable hurdle and a surprising twist for her musical career.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the end of 2015, Toki was diagnosed with Moyamoya disease, a rare and life-threatening blood vessel condition where some arteries become blocked and affect blood flow to the brain. She needed surgery immediately.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The surgery itself comes with all these side effects, which was how I came to have aphasia, how I lost my ability to understand music,” she said. “Those were all because someone tinkered with my brain.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After surgery, music sounded like noise in Toki’s ears: There was no rhythm or melody.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was very disheartening. … I was alive, which is the most important thing. But what is a life without music? What is a life for me without being able to create, which is what brings me joy in life?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Slowly, Toki’s brain gradually began to heal and music started to make sense. After just a few months of recovery, she produced a song called “I Wish I Could,” featuring Belgian artist Selah Sue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It just felt like a heroic feeling,” Toki said. “It was relief. It was joy. It was like, oh my god, ‘I’m back.’”\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/PHLLeZ6UXP8'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/PHLLeZ6UXP8'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>Soon after, Toki was back on stage. During her recovery, she made an album called \u003cem>Lune Rouge\u003c/em>, which was nominated for a Grammy in 2019, making her the first female Asian American producer to be nominated in the dance/electronic album category.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>“\u003c/em>I would love to think that I’m superhuman now, but unfortunately, not. I’m just me, but with less headaches and still alive. So I’m pretty happy with that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite having a singular vision for her work, being in the music industry for decades has taken a toll on Toki. Early last year, the pressures of social media and the demands of touring prompted Toki to take a break from performing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was starting to feel a bit jaded,” she said.“When I sensed that cynical feeling creeping into me, I knew it was time to take a step back.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To regain her energy, Toki spent time with friends going to clubs and underground raves in L.A., focusing on rekindling her eternal love of music.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s important to remember that that dreamer exists, and sometimes I need to be reminded,” she said. “I hope for the rest of my life I remain this inquisitive dreamer forever. I hope that spark never goes away.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp dir=\"ltr\">Hip-hop is nearly 52 years old — and when it comes to talking about hip-hop history, it’s no secret that the Bay Area gets overlooked.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp dir=\"ltr\">Today, we’re revisiting an episode with KQED’s Eric Arnold and Nastia Voynovskaya about exploring the history of hip-hop — and how our region has shaped it through the years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp dir=\"ltr\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC6347059168\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/bayareahiphop/about\">That’s My Word\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13924126/the-bay-area-was-hip-hop-before-there-was-hip-hop\">The Bay Area Was Hip-Hop Before There Was Hip-Hop\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0qR8qB6JbTVhK2HDodBv4b?si=297f92cb403f4300\">That’s My Word, Spotify Playlists Celebrating 50 Years of Bay Area Hip-Hop \u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13930867/whats-pimpin-culture-hip-hop-rap-sexism-misogynoir-black-women\">It’s Time to Unpack Pimp Culture in Bay Area Hip-Hop\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This episode first aired \u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11957970/the-bays-overlooked-contributions-to-hip-hop\">\u003ci>Aug. 11, 2023. \u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp dir=\"ltr\">Hip-hop is nearly 52 years old — and when it comes to talking about hip-hop history, it’s no secret that the Bay Area gets overlooked.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp dir=\"ltr\">Today, we’re revisiting an episode with KQED’s Eric Arnold and Nastia Voynovskaya about exploring the history of hip-hop — and how our region has shaped it through the years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp dir=\"ltr\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC6347059168\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/bayareahiphop/about\">That’s My Word\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13924126/the-bay-area-was-hip-hop-before-there-was-hip-hop\">The Bay Area Was Hip-Hop Before There Was Hip-Hop\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0qR8qB6JbTVhK2HDodBv4b?si=297f92cb403f4300\">That’s My Word, Spotify Playlists Celebrating 50 Years of Bay Area Hip-Hop \u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13930867/whats-pimpin-culture-hip-hop-rap-sexism-misogynoir-black-women\">It’s Time to Unpack Pimp Culture in Bay Area Hip-Hop\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This episode first aired \u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11957970/the-bays-overlooked-contributions-to-hip-hop\">\u003ci>Aug. 11, 2023. \u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Spotify didn’t just change how we listen to music — it changed what a genre even is. In this episode, producer and rapper Quinn reflects on being thrust into the spotlight at age 15 as one of the breakout faces of Spotify’s meteoric Hyperpop playlist. Then, music journalist Kieran Press-Reynolds breaks down how Spotify’s made-up micro-genres—like Goblincore, Anime Drill, and Bubblegrunge—are reshaping music discovery and putting pressure on artists to conform.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC2597215597\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Guests:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/osquinn?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=MXFxM29zNHZ2MndrZA==\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Quinn\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, independent producer and rapper\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kieranpressreynolds.com/\">Kieran Press-Reynolds\u003c/a>, independent reporter covering music and internet culture\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Further reading:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/08/16/1096276/spotify-algorithms-music-discovery-ux/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How to break free of Spotify’s algorithm\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Tiffany Ng, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">MIT Technology Review\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://pitchfork.com/features/article/the-lost-promises-of-hyperpoptimism/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Lost Promises of Hyperpoptimism\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Kieran Press-Reynolds, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Pitchfork\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\">Follow us on Instagram\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My name is Quinn. I’m a recording artist as well as a producer. Uh. Shit. Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Quinn is just 20, but she’s been making music since she was little. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I started producing at nine on my mother’s iPad. And then when I was like 12, I started sharing music on fucking uh BandLab. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The world seemed to come to a standstill when the pandemic hit in 2020, but that’s when Quinn really threw herself into music. She would stay up all night talking to other producers on Discord. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bro that shit was so fun that it like fried my dopamine receptors. Just had nothing but time on our hands, was making music, going crazy on the music. We used to do stuff like beat battles where we all get a sample and we try to flip it in 30 minutes and whoever, you know, whoop-de-woop, wins. No real reward in it. Just see whoever like has the most talent or whatever. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At 15 years old, Quinn had amassed a sizable underground fan base. Then in late 2020, her music blew up. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you hop in, fly G, post it on my watch list, say that you’re invincible, okay ni*** watch this, one phone call \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I woke up for school one morning and I saw it in my Twitter notifications that like somebody just reposted like a screenshot of the Spotify playlist and it had a picture of me. I ain’t gonna lie, when I initially saw it I was just like, oh that’s cool. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Her photo and music had been featured on Spotify’s official “hyperpop” playlist, a platform that wound up launching careers and shaping an entire genre. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like I was kind of just the face of it for a while, along with other artists as well. But they just kept putting me back on the cover and I was just like, shit. Like now everybody wanted to be on the hyperpop playlist. Like once they saw one person did it and that was possible, everybody knew it was possible, which I felt amazing about. Like if you got called a hyperpop artist, like people was getting living wages from having two, three tracks on the playlist. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, the term “hyperpop” suddenly became a big deal. But no one really knew what it meant. It seemed like any vaguely electronic music with angsty lyrics could be called “hyperpop.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The scene that I came from has existed long before me. And for a while, nobody knew what to put a title to it. Like they didn’t know what the fuck to call it. They, so they just called everything like “hyperpop”. They called it, they called underground rap “hyperpop”. They called drum and bass “hyperpop”. They called just any regular house, club, anything that’s fast paced, they called it “hyperpop”. And I didn’t really see it to be a viable umbrella term, because some of this shit is not “hyper” and it’s definitely not “pop” but I’d say hyperpop was more of like a tool of of branding than a uh than a genre title. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is what Spotify has become notorious for, identifying emerging music scenes, calling them microgenres, and slapping on labels before the community making that kind of music has time to decide what to call itself. Artists themselves often don’t know what the labels mean. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Spotify was definitely king of buzzwords for a fucking minute, like just making bullshit. Oh my God. I can’t even remember half of the names they came up with. Oh yeah, they call it certain songs like “hood trap” and shit. That one just feels racially motivated, bro. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bed Rotting. Goblin Core. Anime Drill. Lo-Fi Jazz Hop. Pink Pilates Strut Pop. Mellow Gold. And my personal favorite, Bubble Grunge. And there are thousands more. But beyond the absurd names, Quinn says this practice is actually problematic for artists. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, they affect artists bad because here’s the thing, here’s what happens, they drop a playlist and they’re putting all these artists into that playlist and it’s like this new ass genre name, like no one’s ever heard of this shit before. It’s like, what the hell? So, sometimes that creates competition. Like, say you got a genre like, I don’t know, fucking, they call it “proto-country” or some shit. You’re gonna get a whole bunch of country artists who have, they don’t even know what that’s supposed to sound like, but they’re getting put into this playlist. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s like, bro, like they’ve seen a lot of streams from it because it’s a Spotify official playlist and everything. So things get competitive. And then that’s why everybody be like, yo, you know what? I’m the creator of this shit. Like, nah, I created this shit so now you just have an ongoing feud forever. And now it’s always competitive. And you got this genre that didn’t even get to flourish on its own without an audience to have an opinion on it. So it’s, like, damn, bruh. I think that’s what happened with hyperpop. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Quinn actually doesn’t consider herself a “hyperpop artist”. She released some hyperpop music after blowing up, but since then, her sound has evolved drastically. She said that the popularity of the playlist pressures artists to continue creating the same music in order to continue getting playlisted. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Most days I see that shit and I’m like, bro, I blew up way too early because that shit has set a crazy standard. It’s sitting at 20 million and what? Like I just I’m not I don’t know how I’m supposed to surpass 20 million streams. Well, I know how am supposed to. It just doesn’t feel very realistic. So it’s set a crazy standard for me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Listeners might only learn about emerging music scenes from Spotify’s microgenre playlist. But where do these microgenres even come from? And are they accurate representations of these music communities? This is Close All Tabs. I’m Morgan Sung, tech journalist, and your chronically online friend, here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Let’s get into it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Time for a new tab. Every Noise At Once. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we get deeper into microgenres, we need to talk about how Spotify came up with them in the first place. And my friend Kieran is going to help explain it all. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey, I’m Kieran Press-Reynolds. I’m a writer at Pitchfork and other places. I write about the internet and the intersection of technology and music and like microgenres, TikTok trends, kind of all the digital detritus and genius happening online. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It all started back in 2013 with this project called “Every Noise at Once”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So there’s this guy, this like programmer and kind of genius in a way named Glenn McDonald, who had this sort of like genre discovering algorithm. It would scrape the internet and different platforms and basically map out like the entire musical world. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He put it all online, and the website featured this massive, color-coded scatterplot, a word map of music from around the internet. Instead of dots, it had genre names that you could click on, and it would play an example. And there were subgenres within each genre. The whole thing was arranged to show how each genre relates to others on the map. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, in the words of Glenn MacDonald, the bottom of the map is more “organic”. You have genres like “dutch baroque”. And toward the top is where it gets more mechanical and electric. That’s where you’ll find genres like “acid core”. In between all that is where it gets really interesting. The left of the map is, quote, “denser and more atmospheric”, whereas the right side is “spikier and bouncier”. So, for example, all the way on the left of a map, you might see a genre like “voidgaze”. But all the way on the right, directly across from Void Gaze, you’ll see something like “Rwandan hip hop”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It would like scan text and so it would look at like journalists reports of like what people have called these artists before and it would Look at like sonic attributes like I guess probably like the the tempo or whether something has a certain instrument or like happy or sad sounding music, bright, you know, dark. Um and it would combine all these things into like an equation um and combining that with like regional details and uh maybe even like sort of like similar artists that had been, that had liked that stuff or had been kind of associated with it and it would group it together into an algam. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Every Noise at Once was essentially a constantly evolving encyclopedia of music taxonomy. Glenn McDonald created it while working at Echo Nest, the music data firm that Spotify acquired in 2014. After that acquisition, Spotify incorporated Glenn’s genre data mapping into its recommendation features and playlists. He maintained Every Noise At Once on the side, but at Spotify, was in charge of categorizing songs and naming new genres. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Everything that Glenn would find through every noise at once would become like a Spotify playlist and they would use that data to kind of like map out emerging scenes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sometimes, the genre names were based on what people in the music industry actually called it. But a lot of times, these hyper-specific, niche microgenres seem to come out of nowhere. Kieran describes finding one randomly one day. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just see this playlist called “escape room” and it looks official and I click on it and there’s like a weird image and it says like there’s not really a bio but it’s like “see also other playlists” and there’s like “pulse” and like “drift” and like “isolation chamber” or something and then I google “escape room” and there are other people online also confused like on Reddit. And then I eventually find like an interview with the guy who runs Every Noise At Once talking about it. And he’s basically just like, “yeah, I like made it up”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In a Spotify blog post, Glenn McDonald said “escape room”, quote, “feels connected to trap sonically, although it’s more experimental indie R&B pop that spins off from the sonics of trap.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So like five genres just mashed together into nothing. And yeah, he says it’s a silly play on trap, but it reflects something about solving and creating puzzles and music. Dog was just playing around. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As a personal project, every noise at once was incredibly cool. In the decade he spent running it, Glenn would update the site with features that tracked music across cities, generations, record labels, you name it. Sometimes the names were silly, but most of the time, the genres were based on real data science. However, Kieran says that when Spotify used that data to optimize their playlist curation, they usually overlooked a lot of the cultural nuances that make up music scenes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I think in the first place, it sort of devalues what music and culture is. Like, I mean, Spotify, I think itself is like it’s a tech platform, right? And it’s always trying to chase profit and scale, which comes at the expense of like proper context. And I think Every Noise At Once, what it’s trying to do is basically say that unless you can capture it with data, then it might not be worthy of being called a genre. And like you see this happening with things on the platform where you know, they said unless something gets 1000 streams, then they’re not going to give any of the money to the artist because it’s almost like not, it’s not worthy of being called a song unless people are listening to it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But there are tons of like cultural scenes and little, you know microcosms of society that aren’t even online and their music, it can’t be grasped by data because it’s not racking up streams in that way. And what happens is that like you can have genre almost like forced into being because it might not have enough streams unless you combine a bunch of artists that aren’t necessarily together into like a made up macro term or a label and Spotify and Every Noise That Once has done this where they’ve kind of forced different musicians together into an umbrella term, so they can sort of say is its own genre. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that’s exactly how Quinn ended up as the face of hyperpop, even if she didn’t consider herself to be a “hyperpop artist”. Spotify’s hyperpop playlist was pretty controversial among musicians. We’ll talk about that after a break. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Let’s open a new tab. What happened to hyperpop? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It is so funny because hyperpop is like the thing where like, I’ll email my dad and be like, listen to this song and he’ll be like, “this is absolute rubbish. Like, what are you listening to?” You know? And it’s like, it is like this stuff that will kill a Victorian child. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before hyperpop there was \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“PC music”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">PC music in the early 2010s was like this British collective of like, uh, A.G. Cook, Sophie, Hannah Diamond, these various like experimental singers and producers whose whole thing was sort of like pushing pop to an almost like farcical, like ridiculous extent. And built into it were like critiques of capitalism and almost this like accelerationist desire to push capitalism so far that it’s like it’s a parody of itself um and so you’d have like robotic voices just like so glittery it’s like deliciously sugary music. And so it did really like stand for something and there was like a hyper energy to it and they were really influential and inspired a lot of newer gen people. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This newer generation of musicians took a lot of influence from PC music, but also from other genres too. Some took more of an emo or punk approach, while others leaned into lo-fi beats and rap, or they blended all of it together. Many of these artists making this kind of surreal experimental music were trans and formed collectives online. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As these online communities grew and amassed listeners, Spotify noticed. And by 2019, the platform had enough data to justify calling it a genre. They launched a sprawling playlist of artists who made some form of electronic music and gave it a name. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I think hyperpop is one of the most fascinating examples of how Spotify has impacted and sort of rewired the culture. And it’s something that I hear a lot in public, even among like my friends who are very tapped in, they’ll be like, “well, hyperpop was invented by Spotify”. And I’m like, no, like you’re falling for the the slander! It’s really so, hyperpop, it has been going on for like a decade and a half at this point, like, and people were using the term but it got to a thing where I think Every Noise At Once could see the data that there were artists that were big enough to qualify to become a genre on Spotify. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so in the early stages of it, which was, I believe like 2019 and 2020, it became this almost like community hub because simultaneously while Spotify is sort of sucking up power in the music industry. Journalism is falling apart and there are less and less young people who are writing about these emerging scenes. And so in the absence of like somebody who’s gonna explain what hyperpop is and provided the proper context, Spotify’s playlist became the first thing that would show up when you Googled “hyperpop”. And so for a lot of people who are discovering it during the pandemic, it became the like guiding light, like the tour guide for what this thing is. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is why Quinn described hyperpop more as branding than as a genre. Over time, the playlist started to define the genre instead of the other way around. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A lot of the artists who were in it and some of whom were being put on the playlist were very young people and so this was like their first kind of like chance at being known and a lot of them, their like livelihood became based on whether or not they were, they had a song included on it because the royalty boost they would get would like pay their rent. And then simultaneously there were so many sort of like interscene feuds because Spotify would let various people take over the playlist for a month, and then one month, A.G. Cook, the godfather of PC music took it over and basically put in a ton of music that people thought was not hyperpop at all and was less of this grassroots, like DIY, queer, trans stuff that had kind of invented the genre and more just like random famous musicians. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So those smaller DIY artists lost a lot of streaming revenue once they were removed from the playlist. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it eventually made it so that a bunch of different artists who made like rap and who made pop and who made internet-y music were just all consolidated into this hazy blur of a label, and it got to the point where it’s really sad but like people just didn’t want to identify as hyperpop anymore because of how stained and polluted the label was even though i think hyperpop is a good term and it predated the playlist now for a lot of people it’s like hopelessly contaminated thanks to Spotify. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For a lot of them, artists like Quinn, who at one point told me she felt like the trans, POC origins was being whitewashed out of hyperpop. I think those people felt this sort of sickness toward hyperpop and sort of seeing their impact be erased. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of my big things is I don’t think playlists are necessarily evil and I think you can put a lot of heart and thought into them, but I think, you look at other platforms like Tidal where they have like an editorial arm where they can like provide context for choices and like Spotify is a massive company and you know all you have to do is like get a writer or two to like research and explain what the history of hyperpop is and like what PC Music did — their impact — and I think what has happened is because of how important the hyperpop playlist is and because of industry heads have sort of like used that as the one tool for like what’s popping, it’s created this feedback loop where newer people and industry plants are told to make music like this because it’s the hyperpop playlist and we want to make a trendy sound. And so it has this watered down effect. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hyperpop is just one example of the way that Spotify’s playlists have changed the sound and meaning of a genre. In this case, hyperpop existed well before Spotify named it. But what happens when the platform creates an entirely new genre? How does that impact the way listeners connect to artists? Let’s talk about that in a new tab. Spotify’s micro-genre problem. Let’s go through a few different micro-genres that have popped up on Spotify in recent years. So a couple of years ago, Kieran stumbled across a Spotify playlist called Webcore. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh gosh, I don’t know — it doesn’t sound like anything because it’s not real. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Webcore is a visual style that people usually use to describe digital life in the early 2000s. It’s nostalgic for a simpler version of the internet. Think of the Windows XP background with the rolling green hills and bright blue sky. Or picture early blog posts: pixelated clip art, basic HTML layouts, and gaudy Microsoft Word art and clashing colors. When webcore gained popularity as a design choice, Spotify launched a webcore playlist. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it was essentially this random assemblage of vaguely electronic, vaguely digital, uh, songs that came from just completely different time periods and genres. There was like Meat Computer who does digicore rap. There’s Aphex Twin, IDM from the nineties, Temperex, which is like urban outfitters, dream pop, like stuff that really has no business being next to each other. And they had this playlist. And my theory is that they just saw that this was a buzzword on like TikTok and Pinterest, because it’s like, it’s essentially like a viral mood board, like cottagecore or, you know, dark academia. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Cottagecore and dark academia are aesthetics that both blew up on TikTok. They refer to fashion and lifestyle choices more than music. Cottagecore is this pastoral fantasy. It’s usually used to describe milkmaid dresses and gardening. Dark academia revolves around classic literature and higher education. It’s inspired by Gothic architecture, collegiate tweed blazers, and melancholic books. Again, not really anything to do with music. But Spotify has playlists for cottagecore, dark academia, and pretty much every subculture you can think of, just like webcore. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s just like a very blurry, uh, collage of vibes and Spotify made this, they hand curated this playlist, um, that had no information about what it was. It was just like, a picture and the tagline was like, would you like to save before closing, or something, and then these songs. And it got really big, really fast. People were saving it and I noticed on Twitter that people were starting to talk about webcore as a genre. They were like, “I love this webcore song.” And I’m just like, “This is not real. This is, you know, this a psyop.” And I think it really illustrated Spotify’s power, like in this sort of dearth of real journalism happening, like people look to Spotify as like “the guide.” It wants to capture every single audience possible. And also capture specific audiences, hyperspecific ones, so it can feed them back hyper-specific targeted ads, feed them, back its own version of the culture, which it can then better market. It feels to me like an attempt to create culture where there isn’t. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There are organically made micro-genres that are defined by their visual aesthetic as much as their sound. Like “vaporwave,” which emerged in the early 2010s. It takes dance music from the 80s and 90s, strips it back, and reworks it into a slower, heavily synthesized version. And visually, it takes a lot of inspiration from the neon pink and purple motifs that were popular back then. But like the music itself, it’s distorted and reworked. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was a real scene. That was the community. That was musicians and visual artists who thought they were making something really new and weird. And they really identified with that world and trying to kind of build out lore and like paratext for what they were making. And it’s not even like what Spotify is trying to do with a lot of these things like hyperpop and webcore. It’s not like it really wants to nourish the scene and take care of it. Maybe someone at Spotify would say that, but to me it feels like marketing tags and it feels a way for them to organize data and a way for them make music more intelligible to algorithms so they can feed it to people. There is that, to me, an empathy gap or a meaning, a thought gap in what like vaporwave pioneers were doing. And what Spotify is doing. And I think it’s funny because you could think, I mean, webcore almost sounds like a synonym of vaporwave. And it’s just like the drastically different sort of ideas of what they are, I think, really makes the shallowness of webcore clearer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And Kieran says it’s not just Spotify by itself, but the way that the attention economy and profit drive internet culture today. Like how Spotify’s micro-genres and TikTok virality are deeply intertwined. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s hype cycles, right? It’s like ephemerality. It’s like the way that these platforms, the way they need to function in order to get enough views, get enough people using their platform regularly. They need things to be exciting all the time. And so the way TikTok and the algorithm works, and you can apply this to even other, like to Instagram and to the way that shitpost pages will christen a new rap star every week now. It’s like you need to feel like there are new trends popping constantly. A million genres and nothing sticks, both because people are already moving on to the next one. They’re already tired. And because the artists themselves, there’s no incentive to take a long time anymore. You need to be constantly creating content. The rapid pace of TikTok feeds into Spotify’s system where it’s always recommending you new things, where you always feel like. It’s exciting and new and it creates this like endless feedback cycle. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What are the costs of this? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, like the beautiful power and the beautiful positive of Spotify is that you get everything, right? Everything in the world you can listen to. It’s an endless buffet. And so there’s really it gives you a little reason to like want to venture out of that and to go and actually research music and like why something is the way it is. And so when the platform like puts it into its own little box without any information about it you don’t even like it’s like you lose part of the fundamental the fundamental essence of why music is so great i think which is like the humanity behind it like the community surrounding it like the real life feeling of it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Micro-genres themselves aren’t inherently bad. I actually used to use Every Noise at Once to find new music. But in 2023, Spotify laid off Glenn McDonald and cut off his access to the internal data required to update the site. And earlier this year, he announced that Spotify had switched to tagging genres using machine learning instead of human supervision. So all of those issues we talked about with micro-genres, the lack of nuance and context, they’re even more pronounced now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As the platform relies more on machine learning than human curators, its playlists are becoming more and more personalized. If you search for micro-genre names now, you’ll probably see something called a “mix.” These are algorithmically generated playlists that are based on your own listening history. My hyperpop mix is full of songs that I’ve already listened to, which aren’t even hyperpop. These personalized mixes are even more divorced from the genre’s origins than the editorial playlists ever were. So how do you break out of the algorithm bubble and find new music? It’s easy to let curiosity atrophy when content is just served to us, but being actively curious about music is the first step. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re very simple ways to like exercise your curiosity. Like I like Spotify’s “fans also like,” that’s like one good feature on the platform. I’ve found cool artists that way. I think I do love like going to the bottom and like user generated playlists. Like they show up on artists profiles. And oftentimes if you go beyond like the first few basic ones, there are some intriguing ones usually that like are kind of like a look into a random person’s taste profile. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Quinn says she used to rely on Spotify’s editorial playlists to find new music, until she figured out how to break out of her algorithm bubble. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I find an artist, I go onto their “similar artists” and I listen to their music and so on and so forth. I go on YouTube, I look up any interviews they may have had, because I like to hear artists, I would like to here what their talking voice sound like. I look if they had any sort of performances that I might like, especially if they’re bands. They should turn their YouTube algorithm into a music algorithm, that would greatly help. There’s plenty of YouTubers that are constantly making videos about new genres and new sounds and shit like that. And documentaries as well. Documentaries are fire. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And despite her complaints about the platform, Quinn says she has Spotify to thank for launching her career. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Honestly, without Spotify, I would not be able to have a living wage off of music, so fire. Awesome. However, pay me more. That’s really just, that’s really the only thing I can think about it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She says that algorithm bubbles are not, AI recommended playlists or not, dedicated music fans will always find a way to explore and discover something new. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you look to these AI models, and if that’s all that is popping up on your shit, then you are probably not, you didn’t go deep enough, you’re not as, you didn’t submerge yourself as much as you want to. And I don’t blame people for that, cause like you said, it’s tough to, to even get to the good shit, you have to get through an army of AI created playlists. I’d say anybody who really wants to search our I don’t think they’d stop at just seeing a bunch of AI playlists. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So break out of your algorithm! Okay, now let’s close all these tabs. Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios and is reported and hosted by me, Morgan Sung. Our Producer is Maya Cueva. Chris Egusa is our Senior Editor. Jen Chien is KQED’s Director of Podcasts and helps edit the show. Original music and sound design by Chris Egusa. Additional music by APM. Mixing and mastering by Brendan Willard. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad and Alana Walker. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. And Holly Kernan is our Chief Content Officer. Support for this program comes from Birong Hu and supporters of the KQED Studios Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Keyboard sounds were recorded on my purple and pink dustsilver K84 wired mechanical keyboard with Gateron red switches. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you have feedback, or a topic you think we should cover, hit us up at CloseAllTabs@KQED.org. Follow us on Instagram @CloseAllTabsPod or drop it on Discord. We’re in the Close All Tabs channel at Discord.gg/KQED. And if you’re enjoying the show, give us a rating on Apple Podcasts or whatever platform you use. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks for listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"title": "The Spotify Effect, Pt 2: Micro-Genre Madness | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Spotify didn’t just change how we listen to music — it changed what a genre even is. In this episode, producer and rapper Quinn reflects on being thrust into the spotlight at age 15 as one of the breakout faces of Spotify’s meteoric Hyperpop playlist. Then, music journalist Kieran Press-Reynolds breaks down how Spotify’s made-up micro-genres—like Goblincore, Anime Drill, and Bubblegrunge—are reshaping music discovery and putting pressure on artists to conform.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC2597215597\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Guests:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/osquinn?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=MXFxM29zNHZ2MndrZA==\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Quinn\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, independent producer and rapper\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kieranpressreynolds.com/\">Kieran Press-Reynolds\u003c/a>, independent reporter covering music and internet culture\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Further reading:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/08/16/1096276/spotify-algorithms-music-discovery-ux/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How to break free of Spotify’s algorithm\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Tiffany Ng, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">MIT Technology Review\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://pitchfork.com/features/article/the-lost-promises-of-hyperpoptimism/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Lost Promises of Hyperpoptimism\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Kieran Press-Reynolds, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Pitchfork\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\">Follow us on Instagram\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My name is Quinn. I’m a recording artist as well as a producer. Uh. Shit. Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Quinn is just 20, but she’s been making music since she was little. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I started producing at nine on my mother’s iPad. And then when I was like 12, I started sharing music on fucking uh BandLab. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The world seemed to come to a standstill when the pandemic hit in 2020, but that’s when Quinn really threw herself into music. She would stay up all night talking to other producers on Discord. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bro that shit was so fun that it like fried my dopamine receptors. Just had nothing but time on our hands, was making music, going crazy on the music. We used to do stuff like beat battles where we all get a sample and we try to flip it in 30 minutes and whoever, you know, whoop-de-woop, wins. No real reward in it. Just see whoever like has the most talent or whatever. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At 15 years old, Quinn had amassed a sizable underground fan base. Then in late 2020, her music blew up. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you hop in, fly G, post it on my watch list, say that you’re invincible, okay ni*** watch this, one phone call \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I woke up for school one morning and I saw it in my Twitter notifications that like somebody just reposted like a screenshot of the Spotify playlist and it had a picture of me. I ain’t gonna lie, when I initially saw it I was just like, oh that’s cool. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Her photo and music had been featured on Spotify’s official “hyperpop” playlist, a platform that wound up launching careers and shaping an entire genre. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like I was kind of just the face of it for a while, along with other artists as well. But they just kept putting me back on the cover and I was just like, shit. Like now everybody wanted to be on the hyperpop playlist. Like once they saw one person did it and that was possible, everybody knew it was possible, which I felt amazing about. Like if you got called a hyperpop artist, like people was getting living wages from having two, three tracks on the playlist. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, the term “hyperpop” suddenly became a big deal. But no one really knew what it meant. It seemed like any vaguely electronic music with angsty lyrics could be called “hyperpop.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The scene that I came from has existed long before me. And for a while, nobody knew what to put a title to it. Like they didn’t know what the fuck to call it. They, so they just called everything like “hyperpop”. They called it, they called underground rap “hyperpop”. They called drum and bass “hyperpop”. They called just any regular house, club, anything that’s fast paced, they called it “hyperpop”. And I didn’t really see it to be a viable umbrella term, because some of this shit is not “hyper” and it’s definitely not “pop” but I’d say hyperpop was more of like a tool of of branding than a uh than a genre title. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is what Spotify has become notorious for, identifying emerging music scenes, calling them microgenres, and slapping on labels before the community making that kind of music has time to decide what to call itself. Artists themselves often don’t know what the labels mean. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Spotify was definitely king of buzzwords for a fucking minute, like just making bullshit. Oh my God. I can’t even remember half of the names they came up with. Oh yeah, they call it certain songs like “hood trap” and shit. That one just feels racially motivated, bro. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bed Rotting. Goblin Core. Anime Drill. Lo-Fi Jazz Hop. Pink Pilates Strut Pop. Mellow Gold. And my personal favorite, Bubble Grunge. And there are thousands more. But beyond the absurd names, Quinn says this practice is actually problematic for artists. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, they affect artists bad because here’s the thing, here’s what happens, they drop a playlist and they’re putting all these artists into that playlist and it’s like this new ass genre name, like no one’s ever heard of this shit before. It’s like, what the hell? So, sometimes that creates competition. Like, say you got a genre like, I don’t know, fucking, they call it “proto-country” or some shit. You’re gonna get a whole bunch of country artists who have, they don’t even know what that’s supposed to sound like, but they’re getting put into this playlist. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s like, bro, like they’ve seen a lot of streams from it because it’s a Spotify official playlist and everything. So things get competitive. And then that’s why everybody be like, yo, you know what? I’m the creator of this shit. Like, nah, I created this shit so now you just have an ongoing feud forever. And now it’s always competitive. And you got this genre that didn’t even get to flourish on its own without an audience to have an opinion on it. So it’s, like, damn, bruh. I think that’s what happened with hyperpop. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Quinn actually doesn’t consider herself a “hyperpop artist”. She released some hyperpop music after blowing up, but since then, her sound has evolved drastically. She said that the popularity of the playlist pressures artists to continue creating the same music in order to continue getting playlisted. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Most days I see that shit and I’m like, bro, I blew up way too early because that shit has set a crazy standard. It’s sitting at 20 million and what? Like I just I’m not I don’t know how I’m supposed to surpass 20 million streams. Well, I know how am supposed to. It just doesn’t feel very realistic. So it’s set a crazy standard for me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Listeners might only learn about emerging music scenes from Spotify’s microgenre playlist. But where do these microgenres even come from? And are they accurate representations of these music communities? This is Close All Tabs. I’m Morgan Sung, tech journalist, and your chronically online friend, here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Let’s get into it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Time for a new tab. Every Noise At Once. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we get deeper into microgenres, we need to talk about how Spotify came up with them in the first place. And my friend Kieran is going to help explain it all. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey, I’m Kieran Press-Reynolds. I’m a writer at Pitchfork and other places. I write about the internet and the intersection of technology and music and like microgenres, TikTok trends, kind of all the digital detritus and genius happening online. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It all started back in 2013 with this project called “Every Noise at Once”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So there’s this guy, this like programmer and kind of genius in a way named Glenn McDonald, who had this sort of like genre discovering algorithm. It would scrape the internet and different platforms and basically map out like the entire musical world. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He put it all online, and the website featured this massive, color-coded scatterplot, a word map of music from around the internet. Instead of dots, it had genre names that you could click on, and it would play an example. And there were subgenres within each genre. The whole thing was arranged to show how each genre relates to others on the map. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, in the words of Glenn MacDonald, the bottom of the map is more “organic”. You have genres like “dutch baroque”. And toward the top is where it gets more mechanical and electric. That’s where you’ll find genres like “acid core”. In between all that is where it gets really interesting. The left of the map is, quote, “denser and more atmospheric”, whereas the right side is “spikier and bouncier”. So, for example, all the way on the left of a map, you might see a genre like “voidgaze”. But all the way on the right, directly across from Void Gaze, you’ll see something like “Rwandan hip hop”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It would like scan text and so it would look at like journalists reports of like what people have called these artists before and it would Look at like sonic attributes like I guess probably like the the tempo or whether something has a certain instrument or like happy or sad sounding music, bright, you know, dark. Um and it would combine all these things into like an equation um and combining that with like regional details and uh maybe even like sort of like similar artists that had been, that had liked that stuff or had been kind of associated with it and it would group it together into an algam. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Every Noise at Once was essentially a constantly evolving encyclopedia of music taxonomy. Glenn McDonald created it while working at Echo Nest, the music data firm that Spotify acquired in 2014. After that acquisition, Spotify incorporated Glenn’s genre data mapping into its recommendation features and playlists. He maintained Every Noise At Once on the side, but at Spotify, was in charge of categorizing songs and naming new genres. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Everything that Glenn would find through every noise at once would become like a Spotify playlist and they would use that data to kind of like map out emerging scenes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sometimes, the genre names were based on what people in the music industry actually called it. But a lot of times, these hyper-specific, niche microgenres seem to come out of nowhere. Kieran describes finding one randomly one day. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just see this playlist called “escape room” and it looks official and I click on it and there’s like a weird image and it says like there’s not really a bio but it’s like “see also other playlists” and there’s like “pulse” and like “drift” and like “isolation chamber” or something and then I google “escape room” and there are other people online also confused like on Reddit. And then I eventually find like an interview with the guy who runs Every Noise At Once talking about it. And he’s basically just like, “yeah, I like made it up”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In a Spotify blog post, Glenn McDonald said “escape room”, quote, “feels connected to trap sonically, although it’s more experimental indie R&B pop that spins off from the sonics of trap.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So like five genres just mashed together into nothing. And yeah, he says it’s a silly play on trap, but it reflects something about solving and creating puzzles and music. Dog was just playing around. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As a personal project, every noise at once was incredibly cool. In the decade he spent running it, Glenn would update the site with features that tracked music across cities, generations, record labels, you name it. Sometimes the names were silly, but most of the time, the genres were based on real data science. However, Kieran says that when Spotify used that data to optimize their playlist curation, they usually overlooked a lot of the cultural nuances that make up music scenes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I think in the first place, it sort of devalues what music and culture is. Like, I mean, Spotify, I think itself is like it’s a tech platform, right? And it’s always trying to chase profit and scale, which comes at the expense of like proper context. And I think Every Noise At Once, what it’s trying to do is basically say that unless you can capture it with data, then it might not be worthy of being called a genre. And like you see this happening with things on the platform where you know, they said unless something gets 1000 streams, then they’re not going to give any of the money to the artist because it’s almost like not, it’s not worthy of being called a song unless people are listening to it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But there are tons of like cultural scenes and little, you know microcosms of society that aren’t even online and their music, it can’t be grasped by data because it’s not racking up streams in that way. And what happens is that like you can have genre almost like forced into being because it might not have enough streams unless you combine a bunch of artists that aren’t necessarily together into like a made up macro term or a label and Spotify and Every Noise That Once has done this where they’ve kind of forced different musicians together into an umbrella term, so they can sort of say is its own genre. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that’s exactly how Quinn ended up as the face of hyperpop, even if she didn’t consider herself to be a “hyperpop artist”. Spotify’s hyperpop playlist was pretty controversial among musicians. We’ll talk about that after a break. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Let’s open a new tab. What happened to hyperpop? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It is so funny because hyperpop is like the thing where like, I’ll email my dad and be like, listen to this song and he’ll be like, “this is absolute rubbish. Like, what are you listening to?” You know? And it’s like, it is like this stuff that will kill a Victorian child. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before hyperpop there was \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“PC music”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">PC music in the early 2010s was like this British collective of like, uh, A.G. Cook, Sophie, Hannah Diamond, these various like experimental singers and producers whose whole thing was sort of like pushing pop to an almost like farcical, like ridiculous extent. And built into it were like critiques of capitalism and almost this like accelerationist desire to push capitalism so far that it’s like it’s a parody of itself um and so you’d have like robotic voices just like so glittery it’s like deliciously sugary music. And so it did really like stand for something and there was like a hyper energy to it and they were really influential and inspired a lot of newer gen people. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This newer generation of musicians took a lot of influence from PC music, but also from other genres too. Some took more of an emo or punk approach, while others leaned into lo-fi beats and rap, or they blended all of it together. Many of these artists making this kind of surreal experimental music were trans and formed collectives online. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As these online communities grew and amassed listeners, Spotify noticed. And by 2019, the platform had enough data to justify calling it a genre. They launched a sprawling playlist of artists who made some form of electronic music and gave it a name. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I think hyperpop is one of the most fascinating examples of how Spotify has impacted and sort of rewired the culture. And it’s something that I hear a lot in public, even among like my friends who are very tapped in, they’ll be like, “well, hyperpop was invented by Spotify”. And I’m like, no, like you’re falling for the the slander! It’s really so, hyperpop, it has been going on for like a decade and a half at this point, like, and people were using the term but it got to a thing where I think Every Noise At Once could see the data that there were artists that were big enough to qualify to become a genre on Spotify. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so in the early stages of it, which was, I believe like 2019 and 2020, it became this almost like community hub because simultaneously while Spotify is sort of sucking up power in the music industry. Journalism is falling apart and there are less and less young people who are writing about these emerging scenes. And so in the absence of like somebody who’s gonna explain what hyperpop is and provided the proper context, Spotify’s playlist became the first thing that would show up when you Googled “hyperpop”. And so for a lot of people who are discovering it during the pandemic, it became the like guiding light, like the tour guide for what this thing is. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is why Quinn described hyperpop more as branding than as a genre. Over time, the playlist started to define the genre instead of the other way around. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A lot of the artists who were in it and some of whom were being put on the playlist were very young people and so this was like their first kind of like chance at being known and a lot of them, their like livelihood became based on whether or not they were, they had a song included on it because the royalty boost they would get would like pay their rent. And then simultaneously there were so many sort of like interscene feuds because Spotify would let various people take over the playlist for a month, and then one month, A.G. Cook, the godfather of PC music took it over and basically put in a ton of music that people thought was not hyperpop at all and was less of this grassroots, like DIY, queer, trans stuff that had kind of invented the genre and more just like random famous musicians. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So those smaller DIY artists lost a lot of streaming revenue once they were removed from the playlist. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it eventually made it so that a bunch of different artists who made like rap and who made pop and who made internet-y music were just all consolidated into this hazy blur of a label, and it got to the point where it’s really sad but like people just didn’t want to identify as hyperpop anymore because of how stained and polluted the label was even though i think hyperpop is a good term and it predated the playlist now for a lot of people it’s like hopelessly contaminated thanks to Spotify. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For a lot of them, artists like Quinn, who at one point told me she felt like the trans, POC origins was being whitewashed out of hyperpop. I think those people felt this sort of sickness toward hyperpop and sort of seeing their impact be erased. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One of my big things is I don’t think playlists are necessarily evil and I think you can put a lot of heart and thought into them, but I think, you look at other platforms like Tidal where they have like an editorial arm where they can like provide context for choices and like Spotify is a massive company and you know all you have to do is like get a writer or two to like research and explain what the history of hyperpop is and like what PC Music did — their impact — and I think what has happened is because of how important the hyperpop playlist is and because of industry heads have sort of like used that as the one tool for like what’s popping, it’s created this feedback loop where newer people and industry plants are told to make music like this because it’s the hyperpop playlist and we want to make a trendy sound. And so it has this watered down effect. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hyperpop is just one example of the way that Spotify’s playlists have changed the sound and meaning of a genre. In this case, hyperpop existed well before Spotify named it. But what happens when the platform creates an entirely new genre? How does that impact the way listeners connect to artists? Let’s talk about that in a new tab. Spotify’s micro-genre problem. Let’s go through a few different micro-genres that have popped up on Spotify in recent years. So a couple of years ago, Kieran stumbled across a Spotify playlist called Webcore. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh gosh, I don’t know — it doesn’t sound like anything because it’s not real. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Webcore is a visual style that people usually use to describe digital life in the early 2000s. It’s nostalgic for a simpler version of the internet. Think of the Windows XP background with the rolling green hills and bright blue sky. Or picture early blog posts: pixelated clip art, basic HTML layouts, and gaudy Microsoft Word art and clashing colors. When webcore gained popularity as a design choice, Spotify launched a webcore playlist. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it was essentially this random assemblage of vaguely electronic, vaguely digital, uh, songs that came from just completely different time periods and genres. There was like Meat Computer who does digicore rap. There’s Aphex Twin, IDM from the nineties, Temperex, which is like urban outfitters, dream pop, like stuff that really has no business being next to each other. And they had this playlist. And my theory is that they just saw that this was a buzzword on like TikTok and Pinterest, because it’s like, it’s essentially like a viral mood board, like cottagecore or, you know, dark academia. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Cottagecore and dark academia are aesthetics that both blew up on TikTok. They refer to fashion and lifestyle choices more than music. Cottagecore is this pastoral fantasy. It’s usually used to describe milkmaid dresses and gardening. Dark academia revolves around classic literature and higher education. It’s inspired by Gothic architecture, collegiate tweed blazers, and melancholic books. Again, not really anything to do with music. But Spotify has playlists for cottagecore, dark academia, and pretty much every subculture you can think of, just like webcore. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s just like a very blurry, uh, collage of vibes and Spotify made this, they hand curated this playlist, um, that had no information about what it was. It was just like, a picture and the tagline was like, would you like to save before closing, or something, and then these songs. And it got really big, really fast. People were saving it and I noticed on Twitter that people were starting to talk about webcore as a genre. They were like, “I love this webcore song.” And I’m just like, “This is not real. This is, you know, this a psyop.” And I think it really illustrated Spotify’s power, like in this sort of dearth of real journalism happening, like people look to Spotify as like “the guide.” It wants to capture every single audience possible. And also capture specific audiences, hyperspecific ones, so it can feed them back hyper-specific targeted ads, feed them, back its own version of the culture, which it can then better market. It feels to me like an attempt to create culture where there isn’t. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There are organically made micro-genres that are defined by their visual aesthetic as much as their sound. Like “vaporwave,” which emerged in the early 2010s. It takes dance music from the 80s and 90s, strips it back, and reworks it into a slower, heavily synthesized version. And visually, it takes a lot of inspiration from the neon pink and purple motifs that were popular back then. But like the music itself, it’s distorted and reworked. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was a real scene. That was the community. That was musicians and visual artists who thought they were making something really new and weird. And they really identified with that world and trying to kind of build out lore and like paratext for what they were making. And it’s not even like what Spotify is trying to do with a lot of these things like hyperpop and webcore. It’s not like it really wants to nourish the scene and take care of it. Maybe someone at Spotify would say that, but to me it feels like marketing tags and it feels a way for them to organize data and a way for them make music more intelligible to algorithms so they can feed it to people. There is that, to me, an empathy gap or a meaning, a thought gap in what like vaporwave pioneers were doing. And what Spotify is doing. And I think it’s funny because you could think, I mean, webcore almost sounds like a synonym of vaporwave. And it’s just like the drastically different sort of ideas of what they are, I think, really makes the shallowness of webcore clearer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And Kieran says it’s not just Spotify by itself, but the way that the attention economy and profit drive internet culture today. Like how Spotify’s micro-genres and TikTok virality are deeply intertwined. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s hype cycles, right? It’s like ephemerality. It’s like the way that these platforms, the way they need to function in order to get enough views, get enough people using their platform regularly. They need things to be exciting all the time. And so the way TikTok and the algorithm works, and you can apply this to even other, like to Instagram and to the way that shitpost pages will christen a new rap star every week now. It’s like you need to feel like there are new trends popping constantly. A million genres and nothing sticks, both because people are already moving on to the next one. They’re already tired. And because the artists themselves, there’s no incentive to take a long time anymore. You need to be constantly creating content. The rapid pace of TikTok feeds into Spotify’s system where it’s always recommending you new things, where you always feel like. It’s exciting and new and it creates this like endless feedback cycle. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What are the costs of this? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, like the beautiful power and the beautiful positive of Spotify is that you get everything, right? Everything in the world you can listen to. It’s an endless buffet. And so there’s really it gives you a little reason to like want to venture out of that and to go and actually research music and like why something is the way it is. And so when the platform like puts it into its own little box without any information about it you don’t even like it’s like you lose part of the fundamental the fundamental essence of why music is so great i think which is like the humanity behind it like the community surrounding it like the real life feeling of it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Micro-genres themselves aren’t inherently bad. I actually used to use Every Noise at Once to find new music. But in 2023, Spotify laid off Glenn McDonald and cut off his access to the internal data required to update the site. And earlier this year, he announced that Spotify had switched to tagging genres using machine learning instead of human supervision. So all of those issues we talked about with micro-genres, the lack of nuance and context, they’re even more pronounced now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As the platform relies more on machine learning than human curators, its playlists are becoming more and more personalized. If you search for micro-genre names now, you’ll probably see something called a “mix.” These are algorithmically generated playlists that are based on your own listening history. My hyperpop mix is full of songs that I’ve already listened to, which aren’t even hyperpop. These personalized mixes are even more divorced from the genre’s origins than the editorial playlists ever were. So how do you break out of the algorithm bubble and find new music? It’s easy to let curiosity atrophy when content is just served to us, but being actively curious about music is the first step. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kieran Press-Reynolds: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re very simple ways to like exercise your curiosity. Like I like Spotify’s “fans also like,” that’s like one good feature on the platform. I’ve found cool artists that way. I think I do love like going to the bottom and like user generated playlists. Like they show up on artists profiles. And oftentimes if you go beyond like the first few basic ones, there are some intriguing ones usually that like are kind of like a look into a random person’s taste profile. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Quinn says she used to rely on Spotify’s editorial playlists to find new music, until she figured out how to break out of her algorithm bubble. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I find an artist, I go onto their “similar artists” and I listen to their music and so on and so forth. I go on YouTube, I look up any interviews they may have had, because I like to hear artists, I would like to here what their talking voice sound like. I look if they had any sort of performances that I might like, especially if they’re bands. They should turn their YouTube algorithm into a music algorithm, that would greatly help. There’s plenty of YouTubers that are constantly making videos about new genres and new sounds and shit like that. And documentaries as well. Documentaries are fire. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And despite her complaints about the platform, Quinn says she has Spotify to thank for launching her career. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Honestly, without Spotify, I would not be able to have a living wage off of music, so fire. Awesome. However, pay me more. That’s really just, that’s really the only thing I can think about it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She says that algorithm bubbles are not, AI recommended playlists or not, dedicated music fans will always find a way to explore and discover something new. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Quinn:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you look to these AI models, and if that’s all that is popping up on your shit, then you are probably not, you didn’t go deep enough, you’re not as, you didn’t submerge yourself as much as you want to. And I don’t blame people for that, cause like you said, it’s tough to, to even get to the good shit, you have to get through an army of AI created playlists. I’d say anybody who really wants to search our I don’t think they’d stop at just seeing a bunch of AI playlists. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So break out of your algorithm! Okay, now let’s close all these tabs. Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios and is reported and hosted by me, Morgan Sung. Our Producer is Maya Cueva. Chris Egusa is our Senior Editor. Jen Chien is KQED’s Director of Podcasts and helps edit the show. Original music and sound design by Chris Egusa. Additional music by APM. Mixing and mastering by Brendan Willard. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad and Alana Walker. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. And Holly Kernan is our Chief Content Officer. Support for this program comes from Birong Hu and supporters of the KQED Studios Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Keyboard sounds were recorded on my purple and pink dustsilver K84 wired mechanical keyboard with Gateron red switches. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you have feedback, or a topic you think we should cover, hit us up at CloseAllTabs@KQED.org. Follow us on Instagram @CloseAllTabsPod or drop it on Discord. We’re in the Close All Tabs channel at Discord.gg/KQED. And if you’re enjoying the show, give us a rating on Apple Podcasts or whatever platform you use. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks for listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"slug": "the-spotify-effect-pt-1-ghosts-in-the-playlist",
"title": "The Spotify Effect, Pt 1: Ghosts in the Playlist",
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"headTitle": "The Spotify Effect, Pt 1: Ghosts in the Playlist | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Spotify has morphed from a straightforward music library and search engine into a data-driven system built to feed you songs to match your mood and optimize your time on the platform. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this episode, Morgan is joined by music journalist and author Liz Pelly to break down how Spotify built its playlist empire, the rise of so-called “ghost artists” on the platform, and how its algorithmic approach is changing our relationship to music, artists, and the culture around them. Plus, Morgan tries to solve a personal mystery: “Am I being haunted by Sabrina Carpenter?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC2248363665\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Guest:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://lizpelly.info/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Liz Pelly\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, independent music journalist and author of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Costs of the Perfect Playlist\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Further Reading:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://lizpelly.info/book\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Costs of the Perfect Playlist\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Liz Pelly\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.vox.com/culture/357907/spotify-sabrina-carpenter-espresso-chappell-roan-algorithm\">The Spotify conspiracy theories about “Espresso,” explained\u003c/a> — Rebecca Jennings, \u003ci>Vox \u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.businessinsider.com/spotify-playlists-music-discovery-release-radar-layoffs-cost-cutting-2025-5#:~:text='Algorithmic%20fatigue',flooded%20with%20music%20they%20hate.&text=The%20music%20app%20I've,I'm%20obsessed%20with%20rainstorms.\">‘Algorithm fatigue:’ Spotify Fans Say It’s Going Downhill. Company Insiders Agree.\u003c/a> — John Paul Titlow, \u003ci>Business Insider \u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\">Follow us on Instagram\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Last year, Sabrina Carpenter released Espresso. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sabrina Carpenter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now he’s thinkin’ ’bout me every night, oh/ Is it that sweet? I guess so / Say you can’t sleep, baby, I know / That’s that me espresso\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think I first heard the song on TikTok, or maybe it appeared on one of my Spotify daily mixes. Either way, I thought it was fun, so I put it on my summer playlist. And then it was like there was no escaping espresso. For months, every time I finished listening to a playlist or album, it seemed like the next song that Spotify auto-played was almost always espresso. I remember listening to Charli XCX’s Brat, and then… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sabrina Carpenter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Say you can’t sleep, baby, I know / That’s that me espresso\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Brat is like super electro pop club music that sounds nothing like espresso. But I guess it made sense in my head because they were both trending last summer. But it kept happening with totally different genres. And music that had been out for years. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s the one that really got me. I was listening to my playlist of instrumental movie scores, right? It was on shuffle and the last song was the one from the cornfield scene in Interstellar. Imagine you’re me, listening to this devastatingly beautiful song. The music swells into these ethereal arpeggios, building on each other until it hits a crescendo. And then it comes to an abrupt stop. And while you’re still lingering on the melody of that song, you hear the opening bars of another. And at that point, I knew exactly what was coming. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sabrina Carpenter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Say you can’t sleep, baby, I know / That’s that me espresso\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I wasn’t the only one being haunted by espresso. This was so widespread that there was a whole internet conspiracy theory claiming that Sabrina Carpenter’s team had struck a deal with Spotify to force its algorithm to incessantly autoplay the song in order to boost streaming numbers. Deals between streaming platforms and musicians do exist, but it’s not as simple as that. There’s no single algorithm controlling all of Spotify. What’s more likely is Spotify knew I had listened to the song before, so it just kept recommending it to me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I always try to differentiate, too, the difference between streaming services show you music that you like versus streaming services, show you a music that you seem statistically likely to not hit skip on because basically what streaming services have is a pool of data on you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Liz Pelly is a music critic and journalist who’s been covering Spotify for years. She’s also the author of Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and The Cost of the Perfect Playlist. It’s all about how Spotify’s playlists and recommendation algorithms have changed the way we listen to music. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ve seen a lot of these headlines like, “How Spotify plans to get into your head and tell you what music you like before you even know you like it yourself.” And I think it’s really important to sort of push back on those types of narratives and continue reiterating that that’s not possible. They can’t do that, they can’t that. But what they can do is look at everything that you’ve listened to in the past and make predictions of tracks that you might either be willing to hit play on or that you won’t hit skip on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Spotify gives users access to a seemingly endless library of music, but it’s really become known for being a music discovery platform. For years, its editorial playlists and personalized features introduced hundreds of millions of users to new artists and genres. But now… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Something that I commonly hear from people who use Spotify is that, you know, the recommendations used to introduce them to lots of new music, but over time, the recommendations have gotten a lot more boring. And now all they ever hear is stuff that they’ve already listened to over and over again. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This TikTok creator named Anthony Sistilli summed it up in a video complaining about a feature called “song radio.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Sistilli: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because if I started a radio about a song, it meant I wanted to hear more songs similar to that one that I may or may not know. But now when you do that, it just gives you a bunch of songs that you’ve already listened to, you already have saved to your library, and it’s just insane. It’s so hard to discover music on it now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So what’s behind Spotify’s shift from a music discovery engine to a platform for songs you already know? Has personalization gone too far? And will any of this explain why I couldn’t escape espresso? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Close All Tabs. I’m Morgan Sung, tech journalist, and your chronically online friend, here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Let’s get into it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So did playlists ruin music? Before we get into all of that, let’s start at the beginning. And that means we open a new tab. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The birth of the Spotify playlist. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When Spotify launched in Sweden in 2008, it looked a lot different. When it first launched, the product was really more like a search bar. It was a sparse white page with a tagline that said, “A world of music, instant, simple, and free.” There was a search function and an option to create “play lists” — two words. They were essentially digital mixtapes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You would have to know what you were looking for when you went to the platform, whether it be an artist or an album. And when it came to playlists, it was a lot more dependent on playlists made by other users. There was this sprawling landscape of playlist influencers that were sort of dictating things in terms of what types of playlists became popular. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Originally, the company’s CEO, Daniel Ek, wanted the platform to be the “Google of music.” He was pretty resistant to the idea of Spotify ever becoming a curated service. When it launched in the United States in 2011, it had to compete with iTunes, so Spotify tried to stand out by being a social media platform and then a marketplace for music apps. Basically, the country marketed itself as a library for third-party apps to make playlists. And while that didn’t really work out, it turned out that playlists were super popular. In 2012, the company conducted a research study on its user base. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What they learned through this research is that while their early adopters might have been coming looking for that type of experience, there was increasingly a type of user that was looking for an experience more like that of Pandora. People were looking for specific lean back or passive listening playlists that they could just hit play on to soundtrack a moment in their day. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this research, they discovered something that they called the “lean back listener.” So what can you describe this list- this kind of listener? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s this idea of this listener who isn’t particularly concerned with what artist or album they’re seeing out, but is more content to just pick a mood or a vibe or a playlist category and hit play and have a feed of music play in the background. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After that, Spotify rebranded from a world of music to music for every moment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The homepage was reimagined with more of a focus on these sort of moody images of people in their everyday lives, like sun flares reflecting off of the window of a car while driving, people on vacation together at the beach, you know, like selling people on the idea of Spotify being something that would accompany them in these different moods and moments in their lives. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To accomplish this, in 2013, Spotify acquired a company called Tunigo, which made playlists for different vibes. Tunigo’s editorial staff became the first in-house playlist editors at Spotify. They launched playlists for every genre, like Rap Caviar and Hot Country, but also invested in playlists for “functional music.” That’s a term for music for different moods or activities. Think of how workout mixes always feature upbeat, and 10 songs to get you pumped! Or how cafes put on acoustic, mellow songs for ambiance. It’s less about the music itself and more about facilitating a mood. And it goes hand in hand with lean back listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So instead of putting on a specific album to unwind after work, a lean back listener might just pick from Spotify’s array of chill playlists. There are lots of categories of functional music playlists like Party or Focus or Romance. And playlists update every few days, so there’s always something new. Leanback listening and functional music weren’t invented by streaming. They’ve been around for decades. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In some ways, the history of commercial radio could also be looked at as a type of history of lean back listening as well. The story of streaming is as much about what’s changed as it is about what stayed the same. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before the days of Spotify’s playlist empire, a lot of leanback listeners turned on the radio. Instead of the Top Hits playlist, they listened to the Top 40s station. And instead of the Mellow Morning playlist, maybe they put on the Easy Listening station. But the way those songs are chosen has changed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The way in which listening happens today in this lean back environment also involves, I’d say a lot more data collection and user surveillance than perhaps lean back listening of generations past did, which in some ways I think allows the services to in an even more invasive way, really optimize for this type of listening experience. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Liz makes the argument that Spotify’s real value isn’t its library of music. It’s the data that it’s collected from hundreds of millions of users for over a decade. These listening habits have informed the way that Spotify categorizes and recommends music. So what happens to the culture of music when songs are reduced to data? That’s a new tab. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Streaming optimized music. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I still think handpicking songs for someone else to listen to is one of the most romantic things you can do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>John Cusack: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ve started to make a tape in my head for Laura. Full of stuff she’d like, full of stuff that would make her happy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Back in 2013, Spotify marketed playlists by invoking that same sense of intimacy. But today, Spotify’s in-house playlist creation doesn’t really work like that. It’s all about optimization. They analyze user behavior, music trends, and other kinds of data to put together a playlist that’s likely to get a ton of streaming time. And by 2016, these playlists were immensely influential. A lot of artists got their big break because their songs ended up on an official Spotify playlist. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some of the earliest narratives that streaming services and Spotify in particular were pitching to independent musicians were, yeah, this idea that Spotify was gonna level the playing field and that now the power of gatekeepers like commercial radio DJs and major labels would be diminished. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So up-and-coming artists could submit their tracks. And if a playlist editor liked it, they would add it to what was known as a “feeder playlist” — usually a smaller and niche playlist that wasn’t as popular. If the track had a low skip rate, it might move up to a bigger playlist with more followers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Editors also looked at data from user-generated playlists. If a song had a certain number of streams or saves, then editors would consider adding it to the flagship playlists like Morning Commute and Warehouse Party. But data doesn’t always paint a full picture. Liz pointed out that some songs had a lower skip rate because they were just inoffensive enough to listen to in the background. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So some musicians would notice that even though they had these whole varied catalogs, it was only music that was playlist friendly, background music friendly, maybe kind of like more straightforward, softer on the edges that would do well on streaming because it was music that was more amenable to playlist curation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And this is exactly what happened to lo-fi beats. You might have heard of this YouTube channel called Lo-Fi Hip-Hop Radio, Beats to Relax / Study To. It’s a 24-7 stream that features this anime girl wearing headphones, who’s now known as Lo-Fi Girl. She’s usually writing or reading at her desk, while her cat lounges on a windowsill in the background. The view through this window shows this idyllic cityscape. Sometimes it’s sunset, sometimes it’s raining. Meanwhile, there’s a continuous rotation of calming, overwhelmingly cozy instrumental music. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lo-Fi Girl is wildly popular. She’s inspired countless spinoff channels from jazzier lo-fi beats set at a busy cafe to lo-fied versions of movie and game soundtracks. Producing the genre is a whole cottage industry now. And Spotify has launched a bunch of playlists to capitalize on the trend. There’s the Lo-Fi Beats playlist, one called Lo-Fi Covers, one called Chill Hits, Late Night Beats, you get the picture. And they all kind of sound the same. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But today’s version of the genre sounds very different from how it did when it first emerged in the early 2010s. Back then, DIY musicians, who were inspired by hip hop producers like J Dilla and Madlib, shared their beats with each other on SoundCloud and internet forums. It wasn’t called lo-fi because it was chill music. It was literally low fidelity. It sounded a little unpolished and nostalgic. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was less about making background music to study to, and more about the art of beat making, sample flipping. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Early YouTube streamers like Lo-Fi Girl acted as curators, handpicking a constant rotation of lo-fi mixes from these independent beatmakers. But when Spotify jumped in, the genre started to change. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It kind of, I think is a good example of something that has happened like repeatedly across other genres and sounds in the streaming era, which is you may have like a playlist that becomes the main way in which people are coming to experience the certain type of music. So the fandom becomes a lot more about the playlists than it does necessarily about the different artists that are on the playlist. And streaming users come to expect a specific sound and a specific idea. So then there’s incentive for musicians and producers to sort of like make the same things over and over again. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This strategy could be lucrative for musicians, but because people were often passively listening to ready-made, data-optimized playlists, the artists themselves remained largely unknown. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It is in some ways kind of also on the listeners to take the initiative to learn about the musicians that they’re listening to if this is a type of music that you are interested in, but I also think that the interface doesn’t really in any way prioritize that. You know, lo-fi hip-hop beats on Spotify are one of the genres that has been most impacted by the emergence of what I talk about as ghost artists. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay wait what are ghost artists? We’ll get into that after this break. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, we’re back. So Liz was just telling us about how lo-fi beats is one of the genres most impacted by “ghost artists.” Let’s open a new tab. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ghost artists in the machine. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">By ghost artists, Liz is referring to the artists who make up the majority of Spotify’s lean back functional music playlists. The ones made for listening to in the background, like lo-fi beats or deep focus. For a while, people have been accusing these playlists of being stocked with “fake artists.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For me, I think that at the very beginning, I thought that maybe these were just kind of DIY hustlers trying to game the system or maybe like teenagers in their bedrooms trying to like juice Spotify royalties or something. And it didn’t strike me as like super concerning at first. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Liz found that it actually went way deeper than that. These playlists rack up millions of streams a day, even if people are only half-listening to them. By 2017, the company figured out a way that it could skimp on paying royalties. That’s when Spotify quietly rolled out what they called Perfect Fit Content, or PFC. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was able to pull the veil back a little bit and came to learn that, you know, these weren’t individual DIY hustlers trying to game the system. This was an actual effort from within Spotify. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Essentially, Spotify made deals with production companies, which were already commissioning musicians to write and produce low-budget stock music. Think of the kind of background music that goes into commercials, documentaries, YouTube videos. Even this show, when my colleague Chris doesn’t have time to compose original music for each episode. Except these were commissioned for specific playlists like lo-fi beats or ambient piano. And the thing is, these ghost artists were still marketed as if they were real individuals, complete with fake names and bios. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not even that it’s encouraging a relationship with the playlist instead of the artists. There’s actually in this arrangement, there’s no opportunity for a relationship with the artists when the artists don’t actually exist. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Spotify paid lower royalties for PFCs, and in exchange, these tracks were given priority on Spotify’s functional music playlists. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was clear that there was special privilege being given to these types of tracks and there were certainly internal conversations where senior executives or senior music programming staff was drawing attention to these tracks and encouraging playlist editors to add them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Liz says that by 2023, there were hundreds of playlists that were over 90% PFC tracks. Spotify got to cut costs and the stock music production companies profited off the streams. But ghost artists, who are real musicians doing real labor, got the short end of the stick. They were making anonymous stock music. So even if they got paid upfront, they rarely got a cut of royalties. And even if their tracks went super viral, they didn’t get any credit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Most of the people I spoke with said things along the lines of, “I just make music, submit it, I get paid, and I don’t know what happens after that.” They didn’t know really anything about the broader arrangement with the streaming services, what was guaranteed or not guaranteed, or even like what that relationship looked like. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And Liz found that most playlist editors were not thrilled about this setup either. Even if it involved data, Spotify’s editorial playlist curation was something of an art form that required a deep understanding of music and culture, which editors took a lot of pride in. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, Spotify eventually hired an entirely new team of editors to handle PFCs, who were charged with prioritizing metrics above anything else. They were less focused on taste-making, and more on analyzing user behavior and sorting data. And that practice has become the norm for Spotify’s playlist editors. Spotify started to focus more on personalized playlists around the time they launched the PFC program. The editorial playlists aren’t nearly as influential as they used to be, because now it’s all about the algorithm. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s one person who talked to me who said, as someone working in an independent record label, they’d basically given up on the idea that their music would ever be considered for editorial playlist placement because everything had shifted to algorithmic recommendation and personalization products. And even former employees I spoke with, there was a sense that algorithmic personalized recommendations had sort of taken over to some extent or kind of won out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Which brings us back again to… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sabrina Carpenter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Say you can’t sleep, baby, I know / That’s that me espresso\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, new tab. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Algorithm fatigue. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Liz says Spotify has always been driven by data. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is curation that’s really based on streaming metrics and less so on the willingness or openness to take risks. Personalized recommendation doesn’t just exist to offer the user a satisfying user experience, but also because they want to retain you as a subscriber. And one of the ways in which they can retain you is by simply, you know, showing you the music that they think you’re the most likely to stream. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">With that in mind, the company started collecting listener data way before they even knew what to do with it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In my research on Spotify, something that kept coming up as far back as like 2013, was this aspiration to create essentially like a button that someone could play when they opened the app and get the perfect recommendation at the perfect time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In 2014, the company bought a music data startup called Echo Nest, which had a database of 30 million songs and their defining characteristics. A year later, Spotify used all that data, combined with their own, to launch Discover Weekly. This has been one of Spotify’s defining features. 30 songs every Monday tailored to each individual user’s music taste. This was the start of Spotify pivot to hyper-personalized, algorithmically recommended music. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This idea of self-driving music, that someone would just be able to open the app and based on all this information that the app had on the user, the playlist recommendations would just guide themselves. A former employee mentioned to me that the whole goal of the playlisting ecosystem was to reduce the cognitive work that people had to do when they opened the app. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After that, editorial playlists took a backseat. There are the big ones, Rap Caviar, Today’s Top Hits, and the EDM playlist, Mint. There are a few others that Spotify still curates and invests in, and says that they still have human editors working on. But personalized recommendations were taking over. The job of a Spotify playlist editor began changing. Spotify calls it algo-torial. Playlist editors focus on creating large lists of songs. But an algorithm picks the ones shown to each individual listener. And all of it is optimized to keep you from turning it off. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This idea of like, “Oh, we want to reduce like the thinking that people have to do when they open the app,” I find troubling for all sorts of ways, also, especially as a music critic. But I, I think that it’s really interesting thinking about that as context for a couple of recommendation products that they did roll out the past few years, which are Daylist and AI DJ. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These are totally algorithm-controlled playlists. Daylist is like Discover Weekly on steroids. It’s a playlist of 50 songs that’s updated three to five times a day, every day. It’s not just based on your taste, but also on the genres of music that you tend to listen to throughout the day. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s providing you the perfect soundtrack tailored just you and your unique way of listening to music because we have all this data on you and we know all of these different niches you’re into. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">AI DJ also serves users with algorithmically recommended songs, but with interjections from an AI-generated voice, who acts kind of like a personal radio host. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>AI DJ: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey Max, what’s going on? I’m X and from this moment on I’m gonna be your own personal AI DJ on Spotify. Let’s go!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They are both different manifestations of that idea that, you know, there’s just this one place that you go on the app and you just hit play and it shows you the perfect recommendation at the perfect time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then there’s Smart Shuffle, which auto plays music and is probably responsible for my Espresso hell. And like the others, it’s also hyper personalized algorithmically recommended songs based on each user’s listening history. But Liz points out that you don’t have to give into the algorithm. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The idea of like curating your own queue as a sort of like antidote to the feed. If you maintain your own queue, it can kind of like help in those moments to have a different way of listening to music. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Still, Liz says she’s concerned about the convenience and widespread adoption of Spotify’s recommendation system. Thanks to these fine-tuned algorithms, people have started to expect recommendations to come to them. And the practice of discovering and curating music for ourselves is withering away. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think a lot of people rely on personalized recommendations because they don’t know what to listen to or because they open the app and it’s just the first thing they see. And they might even be like a curious listener, someone who cares about music, but they open it, they see Daily Mix One, they say, “Oh, I like some of these artists, like, sure, I’ll just hit play on this.” It’s like a slippery slope when your daily listening habits come to sort of revolve around these algorithmic personalized recommendation products that are so tightly controlled by streaming platforms. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I made my Spotify account back in 2014. And since then, every decision I’ve made on Spotify, consciously or unconsciously, has been tracked and used for the platform’s various algorithms. The amount of time I’ve listened to certain songs, the music I’ve added to my own playlists, the songs I’ve skipped, and even the mixes I’ve put on as background music. All of this somehow contributed to me getting bombarded with Espresso last year. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think we’ve heard enough of that. I’ll admit it, it’s so convenient to just turn on my Daylist. Sometimes I’m in the car, or about to get on the treadmill, and I just don’t want to put in the mental work of looking for something to listen to. Here’s the other thing about Daylists that make them tempting to pick. They’re just so hyper specific. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My Daylist playlist is called Supergroup Ripped Jeans Tuesday Afternoon. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Indie Chill Hipster Evening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Cueva: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Clavé, Barbershop, Friday Morning. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For the record, as I write this narration, mine is “Ethereal Alien Club Classics Afternoon,” with genres like Brat Summer, Indie Sleeze, and Recession Pop? Somehow, Ethereal Alien Club Classics includes Frank Ocean, Midski, and of course, Charlie XCX. But how did Spotify come up with these niche micro genres? How do artists feel about getting lumped into them? And how does this affect the way that we discover music? That’s a new tab, but we’ll have to save that for next week. So for now, we’re actually leaving this last tab open. We can close the rest though. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios and is reported and hosted by me, Morgan Sung. Our Producer is Maya Cueva. Chris Egusa is our Senior Editor. Jen Chien is KQED’s Director of Podcasts and helps edit the show. Sound design by Chris Egusa and Brendan Willard. Original music by Chris Egusa. Additional music by APM. Mixing and mastering by Brendan Willard. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad and Alana Walker. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager, and Holly Kernan is our Chief Content Officer. Support for this program comes from Birong Hu and supporters of the KQED Studios Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Keyboard sounds were recorded on my purple and pink Dustsilver K-84 wired mechanical keyboard with Gateron red switches. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you have feedback or a topic you think we should cover, hit us up at CloseAllTabs@KQED.org, follow us on Instagram @CloseAllTabsPod, or drop it on Discord. We’re in the Close All Tabs channel at Discord.gg/KQED. And if you’re enjoying the show, give us a rating on Apple Podcasts or whatever platform you use. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks for listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"description": "Spotify has morphed from a straight-forward music library and search engine into a data-driven system built to feed you songs to match your mood and optimize your time on the platform. In this episode, Morgan is joined by music journalist and author Liz Pelly to break down how Spotify built its playlist empire, the rise of so-called “ghost artists” on the platform, and how its algorithm approach is changing our relationship to music, artists, and the culture around them. Plus, Morgan tries to solve a personal mystery: why was she being haunted by Sabrina Carpenter’s Espresso?",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Spotify has morphed from a straightforward music library and search engine into a data-driven system built to feed you songs to match your mood and optimize your time on the platform. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this episode, Morgan is joined by music journalist and author Liz Pelly to break down how Spotify built its playlist empire, the rise of so-called “ghost artists” on the platform, and how its algorithmic approach is changing our relationship to music, artists, and the culture around them. Plus, Morgan tries to solve a personal mystery: “Am I being haunted by Sabrina Carpenter?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC2248363665\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Guest:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://lizpelly.info/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Liz Pelly\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, independent music journalist and author of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Costs of the Perfect Playlist\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Further Reading:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://lizpelly.info/book\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Costs of the Perfect Playlist\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Liz Pelly\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.vox.com/culture/357907/spotify-sabrina-carpenter-espresso-chappell-roan-algorithm\">The Spotify conspiracy theories about “Espresso,” explained\u003c/a> — Rebecca Jennings, \u003ci>Vox \u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.businessinsider.com/spotify-playlists-music-discovery-release-radar-layoffs-cost-cutting-2025-5#:~:text='Algorithmic%20fatigue',flooded%20with%20music%20they%20hate.&text=The%20music%20app%20I've,I'm%20obsessed%20with%20rainstorms.\">‘Algorithm fatigue:’ Spotify Fans Say It’s Going Downhill. Company Insiders Agree.\u003c/a> — John Paul Titlow, \u003ci>Business Insider \u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\">Follow us on Instagram\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Last year, Sabrina Carpenter released Espresso. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sabrina Carpenter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now he’s thinkin’ ’bout me every night, oh/ Is it that sweet? I guess so / Say you can’t sleep, baby, I know / That’s that me espresso\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think I first heard the song on TikTok, or maybe it appeared on one of my Spotify daily mixes. Either way, I thought it was fun, so I put it on my summer playlist. And then it was like there was no escaping espresso. For months, every time I finished listening to a playlist or album, it seemed like the next song that Spotify auto-played was almost always espresso. I remember listening to Charli XCX’s Brat, and then… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sabrina Carpenter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Say you can’t sleep, baby, I know / That’s that me espresso\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Brat is like super electro pop club music that sounds nothing like espresso. But I guess it made sense in my head because they were both trending last summer. But it kept happening with totally different genres. And music that had been out for years. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s the one that really got me. I was listening to my playlist of instrumental movie scores, right? It was on shuffle and the last song was the one from the cornfield scene in Interstellar. Imagine you’re me, listening to this devastatingly beautiful song. The music swells into these ethereal arpeggios, building on each other until it hits a crescendo. And then it comes to an abrupt stop. And while you’re still lingering on the melody of that song, you hear the opening bars of another. And at that point, I knew exactly what was coming. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sabrina Carpenter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Say you can’t sleep, baby, I know / That’s that me espresso\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I wasn’t the only one being haunted by espresso. This was so widespread that there was a whole internet conspiracy theory claiming that Sabrina Carpenter’s team had struck a deal with Spotify to force its algorithm to incessantly autoplay the song in order to boost streaming numbers. Deals between streaming platforms and musicians do exist, but it’s not as simple as that. There’s no single algorithm controlling all of Spotify. What’s more likely is Spotify knew I had listened to the song before, so it just kept recommending it to me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I always try to differentiate, too, the difference between streaming services show you music that you like versus streaming services, show you a music that you seem statistically likely to not hit skip on because basically what streaming services have is a pool of data on you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Liz Pelly is a music critic and journalist who’s been covering Spotify for years. She’s also the author of Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and The Cost of the Perfect Playlist. It’s all about how Spotify’s playlists and recommendation algorithms have changed the way we listen to music. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ve seen a lot of these headlines like, “How Spotify plans to get into your head and tell you what music you like before you even know you like it yourself.” And I think it’s really important to sort of push back on those types of narratives and continue reiterating that that’s not possible. They can’t do that, they can’t that. But what they can do is look at everything that you’ve listened to in the past and make predictions of tracks that you might either be willing to hit play on or that you won’t hit skip on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Spotify gives users access to a seemingly endless library of music, but it’s really become known for being a music discovery platform. For years, its editorial playlists and personalized features introduced hundreds of millions of users to new artists and genres. But now… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Something that I commonly hear from people who use Spotify is that, you know, the recommendations used to introduce them to lots of new music, but over time, the recommendations have gotten a lot more boring. And now all they ever hear is stuff that they’ve already listened to over and over again. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This TikTok creator named Anthony Sistilli summed it up in a video complaining about a feature called “song radio.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Sistilli: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because if I started a radio about a song, it meant I wanted to hear more songs similar to that one that I may or may not know. But now when you do that, it just gives you a bunch of songs that you’ve already listened to, you already have saved to your library, and it’s just insane. It’s so hard to discover music on it now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So what’s behind Spotify’s shift from a music discovery engine to a platform for songs you already know? Has personalization gone too far? And will any of this explain why I couldn’t escape espresso? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Close All Tabs. I’m Morgan Sung, tech journalist, and your chronically online friend, here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Let’s get into it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So did playlists ruin music? Before we get into all of that, let’s start at the beginning. And that means we open a new tab. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The birth of the Spotify playlist. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When Spotify launched in Sweden in 2008, it looked a lot different. When it first launched, the product was really more like a search bar. It was a sparse white page with a tagline that said, “A world of music, instant, simple, and free.” There was a search function and an option to create “play lists” — two words. They were essentially digital mixtapes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You would have to know what you were looking for when you went to the platform, whether it be an artist or an album. And when it came to playlists, it was a lot more dependent on playlists made by other users. There was this sprawling landscape of playlist influencers that were sort of dictating things in terms of what types of playlists became popular. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Originally, the company’s CEO, Daniel Ek, wanted the platform to be the “Google of music.” He was pretty resistant to the idea of Spotify ever becoming a curated service. When it launched in the United States in 2011, it had to compete with iTunes, so Spotify tried to stand out by being a social media platform and then a marketplace for music apps. Basically, the country marketed itself as a library for third-party apps to make playlists. And while that didn’t really work out, it turned out that playlists were super popular. In 2012, the company conducted a research study on its user base. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What they learned through this research is that while their early adopters might have been coming looking for that type of experience, there was increasingly a type of user that was looking for an experience more like that of Pandora. People were looking for specific lean back or passive listening playlists that they could just hit play on to soundtrack a moment in their day. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this research, they discovered something that they called the “lean back listener.” So what can you describe this list- this kind of listener? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s this idea of this listener who isn’t particularly concerned with what artist or album they’re seeing out, but is more content to just pick a mood or a vibe or a playlist category and hit play and have a feed of music play in the background. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After that, Spotify rebranded from a world of music to music for every moment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The homepage was reimagined with more of a focus on these sort of moody images of people in their everyday lives, like sun flares reflecting off of the window of a car while driving, people on vacation together at the beach, you know, like selling people on the idea of Spotify being something that would accompany them in these different moods and moments in their lives. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To accomplish this, in 2013, Spotify acquired a company called Tunigo, which made playlists for different vibes. Tunigo’s editorial staff became the first in-house playlist editors at Spotify. They launched playlists for every genre, like Rap Caviar and Hot Country, but also invested in playlists for “functional music.” That’s a term for music for different moods or activities. Think of how workout mixes always feature upbeat, and 10 songs to get you pumped! Or how cafes put on acoustic, mellow songs for ambiance. It’s less about the music itself and more about facilitating a mood. And it goes hand in hand with lean back listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So instead of putting on a specific album to unwind after work, a lean back listener might just pick from Spotify’s array of chill playlists. There are lots of categories of functional music playlists like Party or Focus or Romance. And playlists update every few days, so there’s always something new. Leanback listening and functional music weren’t invented by streaming. They’ve been around for decades. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In some ways, the history of commercial radio could also be looked at as a type of history of lean back listening as well. The story of streaming is as much about what’s changed as it is about what stayed the same. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before the days of Spotify’s playlist empire, a lot of leanback listeners turned on the radio. Instead of the Top Hits playlist, they listened to the Top 40s station. And instead of the Mellow Morning playlist, maybe they put on the Easy Listening station. But the way those songs are chosen has changed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The way in which listening happens today in this lean back environment also involves, I’d say a lot more data collection and user surveillance than perhaps lean back listening of generations past did, which in some ways I think allows the services to in an even more invasive way, really optimize for this type of listening experience. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Liz makes the argument that Spotify’s real value isn’t its library of music. It’s the data that it’s collected from hundreds of millions of users for over a decade. These listening habits have informed the way that Spotify categorizes and recommends music. So what happens to the culture of music when songs are reduced to data? That’s a new tab. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Streaming optimized music. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I still think handpicking songs for someone else to listen to is one of the most romantic things you can do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>John Cusack: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ve started to make a tape in my head for Laura. Full of stuff she’d like, full of stuff that would make her happy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Back in 2013, Spotify marketed playlists by invoking that same sense of intimacy. But today, Spotify’s in-house playlist creation doesn’t really work like that. It’s all about optimization. They analyze user behavior, music trends, and other kinds of data to put together a playlist that’s likely to get a ton of streaming time. And by 2016, these playlists were immensely influential. A lot of artists got their big break because their songs ended up on an official Spotify playlist. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some of the earliest narratives that streaming services and Spotify in particular were pitching to independent musicians were, yeah, this idea that Spotify was gonna level the playing field and that now the power of gatekeepers like commercial radio DJs and major labels would be diminished. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So up-and-coming artists could submit their tracks. And if a playlist editor liked it, they would add it to what was known as a “feeder playlist” — usually a smaller and niche playlist that wasn’t as popular. If the track had a low skip rate, it might move up to a bigger playlist with more followers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Editors also looked at data from user-generated playlists. If a song had a certain number of streams or saves, then editors would consider adding it to the flagship playlists like Morning Commute and Warehouse Party. But data doesn’t always paint a full picture. Liz pointed out that some songs had a lower skip rate because they were just inoffensive enough to listen to in the background. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So some musicians would notice that even though they had these whole varied catalogs, it was only music that was playlist friendly, background music friendly, maybe kind of like more straightforward, softer on the edges that would do well on streaming because it was music that was more amenable to playlist curation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And this is exactly what happened to lo-fi beats. You might have heard of this YouTube channel called Lo-Fi Hip-Hop Radio, Beats to Relax / Study To. It’s a 24-7 stream that features this anime girl wearing headphones, who’s now known as Lo-Fi Girl. She’s usually writing or reading at her desk, while her cat lounges on a windowsill in the background. The view through this window shows this idyllic cityscape. Sometimes it’s sunset, sometimes it’s raining. Meanwhile, there’s a continuous rotation of calming, overwhelmingly cozy instrumental music. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lo-Fi Girl is wildly popular. She’s inspired countless spinoff channels from jazzier lo-fi beats set at a busy cafe to lo-fied versions of movie and game soundtracks. Producing the genre is a whole cottage industry now. And Spotify has launched a bunch of playlists to capitalize on the trend. There’s the Lo-Fi Beats playlist, one called Lo-Fi Covers, one called Chill Hits, Late Night Beats, you get the picture. And they all kind of sound the same. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But today’s version of the genre sounds very different from how it did when it first emerged in the early 2010s. Back then, DIY musicians, who were inspired by hip hop producers like J Dilla and Madlib, shared their beats with each other on SoundCloud and internet forums. It wasn’t called lo-fi because it was chill music. It was literally low fidelity. It sounded a little unpolished and nostalgic. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was less about making background music to study to, and more about the art of beat making, sample flipping. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Early YouTube streamers like Lo-Fi Girl acted as curators, handpicking a constant rotation of lo-fi mixes from these independent beatmakers. But when Spotify jumped in, the genre started to change. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It kind of, I think is a good example of something that has happened like repeatedly across other genres and sounds in the streaming era, which is you may have like a playlist that becomes the main way in which people are coming to experience the certain type of music. So the fandom becomes a lot more about the playlists than it does necessarily about the different artists that are on the playlist. And streaming users come to expect a specific sound and a specific idea. So then there’s incentive for musicians and producers to sort of like make the same things over and over again. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This strategy could be lucrative for musicians, but because people were often passively listening to ready-made, data-optimized playlists, the artists themselves remained largely unknown. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It is in some ways kind of also on the listeners to take the initiative to learn about the musicians that they’re listening to if this is a type of music that you are interested in, but I also think that the interface doesn’t really in any way prioritize that. You know, lo-fi hip-hop beats on Spotify are one of the genres that has been most impacted by the emergence of what I talk about as ghost artists. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay wait what are ghost artists? We’ll get into that after this break. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, we’re back. So Liz was just telling us about how lo-fi beats is one of the genres most impacted by “ghost artists.” Let’s open a new tab. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ghost artists in the machine. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">By ghost artists, Liz is referring to the artists who make up the majority of Spotify’s lean back functional music playlists. The ones made for listening to in the background, like lo-fi beats or deep focus. For a while, people have been accusing these playlists of being stocked with “fake artists.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For me, I think that at the very beginning, I thought that maybe these were just kind of DIY hustlers trying to game the system or maybe like teenagers in their bedrooms trying to like juice Spotify royalties or something. And it didn’t strike me as like super concerning at first. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Liz found that it actually went way deeper than that. These playlists rack up millions of streams a day, even if people are only half-listening to them. By 2017, the company figured out a way that it could skimp on paying royalties. That’s when Spotify quietly rolled out what they called Perfect Fit Content, or PFC. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was able to pull the veil back a little bit and came to learn that, you know, these weren’t individual DIY hustlers trying to game the system. This was an actual effort from within Spotify. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Essentially, Spotify made deals with production companies, which were already commissioning musicians to write and produce low-budget stock music. Think of the kind of background music that goes into commercials, documentaries, YouTube videos. Even this show, when my colleague Chris doesn’t have time to compose original music for each episode. Except these were commissioned for specific playlists like lo-fi beats or ambient piano. And the thing is, these ghost artists were still marketed as if they were real individuals, complete with fake names and bios. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not even that it’s encouraging a relationship with the playlist instead of the artists. There’s actually in this arrangement, there’s no opportunity for a relationship with the artists when the artists don’t actually exist. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Spotify paid lower royalties for PFCs, and in exchange, these tracks were given priority on Spotify’s functional music playlists. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was clear that there was special privilege being given to these types of tracks and there were certainly internal conversations where senior executives or senior music programming staff was drawing attention to these tracks and encouraging playlist editors to add them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Liz says that by 2023, there were hundreds of playlists that were over 90% PFC tracks. Spotify got to cut costs and the stock music production companies profited off the streams. But ghost artists, who are real musicians doing real labor, got the short end of the stick. They were making anonymous stock music. So even if they got paid upfront, they rarely got a cut of royalties. And even if their tracks went super viral, they didn’t get any credit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Most of the people I spoke with said things along the lines of, “I just make music, submit it, I get paid, and I don’t know what happens after that.” They didn’t know really anything about the broader arrangement with the streaming services, what was guaranteed or not guaranteed, or even like what that relationship looked like. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And Liz found that most playlist editors were not thrilled about this setup either. Even if it involved data, Spotify’s editorial playlist curation was something of an art form that required a deep understanding of music and culture, which editors took a lot of pride in. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, Spotify eventually hired an entirely new team of editors to handle PFCs, who were charged with prioritizing metrics above anything else. They were less focused on taste-making, and more on analyzing user behavior and sorting data. And that practice has become the norm for Spotify’s playlist editors. Spotify started to focus more on personalized playlists around the time they launched the PFC program. The editorial playlists aren’t nearly as influential as they used to be, because now it’s all about the algorithm. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s one person who talked to me who said, as someone working in an independent record label, they’d basically given up on the idea that their music would ever be considered for editorial playlist placement because everything had shifted to algorithmic recommendation and personalization products. And even former employees I spoke with, there was a sense that algorithmic personalized recommendations had sort of taken over to some extent or kind of won out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Which brings us back again to… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sabrina Carpenter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Say you can’t sleep, baby, I know / That’s that me espresso\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, new tab. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Algorithm fatigue. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Liz says Spotify has always been driven by data. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is curation that’s really based on streaming metrics and less so on the willingness or openness to take risks. Personalized recommendation doesn’t just exist to offer the user a satisfying user experience, but also because they want to retain you as a subscriber. And one of the ways in which they can retain you is by simply, you know, showing you the music that they think you’re the most likely to stream. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">With that in mind, the company started collecting listener data way before they even knew what to do with it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In my research on Spotify, something that kept coming up as far back as like 2013, was this aspiration to create essentially like a button that someone could play when they opened the app and get the perfect recommendation at the perfect time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In 2014, the company bought a music data startup called Echo Nest, which had a database of 30 million songs and their defining characteristics. A year later, Spotify used all that data, combined with their own, to launch Discover Weekly. This has been one of Spotify’s defining features. 30 songs every Monday tailored to each individual user’s music taste. This was the start of Spotify pivot to hyper-personalized, algorithmically recommended music. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This idea of self-driving music, that someone would just be able to open the app and based on all this information that the app had on the user, the playlist recommendations would just guide themselves. A former employee mentioned to me that the whole goal of the playlisting ecosystem was to reduce the cognitive work that people had to do when they opened the app. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After that, editorial playlists took a backseat. There are the big ones, Rap Caviar, Today’s Top Hits, and the EDM playlist, Mint. There are a few others that Spotify still curates and invests in, and says that they still have human editors working on. But personalized recommendations were taking over. The job of a Spotify playlist editor began changing. Spotify calls it algo-torial. Playlist editors focus on creating large lists of songs. But an algorithm picks the ones shown to each individual listener. And all of it is optimized to keep you from turning it off. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This idea of like, “Oh, we want to reduce like the thinking that people have to do when they open the app,” I find troubling for all sorts of ways, also, especially as a music critic. But I, I think that it’s really interesting thinking about that as context for a couple of recommendation products that they did roll out the past few years, which are Daylist and AI DJ. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These are totally algorithm-controlled playlists. Daylist is like Discover Weekly on steroids. It’s a playlist of 50 songs that’s updated three to five times a day, every day. It’s not just based on your taste, but also on the genres of music that you tend to listen to throughout the day. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s providing you the perfect soundtrack tailored just you and your unique way of listening to music because we have all this data on you and we know all of these different niches you’re into. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">AI DJ also serves users with algorithmically recommended songs, but with interjections from an AI-generated voice, who acts kind of like a personal radio host. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>AI DJ: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey Max, what’s going on? I’m X and from this moment on I’m gonna be your own personal AI DJ on Spotify. Let’s go!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They are both different manifestations of that idea that, you know, there’s just this one place that you go on the app and you just hit play and it shows you the perfect recommendation at the perfect time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then there’s Smart Shuffle, which auto plays music and is probably responsible for my Espresso hell. And like the others, it’s also hyper personalized algorithmically recommended songs based on each user’s listening history. But Liz points out that you don’t have to give into the algorithm. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The idea of like curating your own queue as a sort of like antidote to the feed. If you maintain your own queue, it can kind of like help in those moments to have a different way of listening to music. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Still, Liz says she’s concerned about the convenience and widespread adoption of Spotify’s recommendation system. Thanks to these fine-tuned algorithms, people have started to expect recommendations to come to them. And the practice of discovering and curating music for ourselves is withering away. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think a lot of people rely on personalized recommendations because they don’t know what to listen to or because they open the app and it’s just the first thing they see. And they might even be like a curious listener, someone who cares about music, but they open it, they see Daily Mix One, they say, “Oh, I like some of these artists, like, sure, I’ll just hit play on this.” It’s like a slippery slope when your daily listening habits come to sort of revolve around these algorithmic personalized recommendation products that are so tightly controlled by streaming platforms. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I made my Spotify account back in 2014. And since then, every decision I’ve made on Spotify, consciously or unconsciously, has been tracked and used for the platform’s various algorithms. The amount of time I’ve listened to certain songs, the music I’ve added to my own playlists, the songs I’ve skipped, and even the mixes I’ve put on as background music. All of this somehow contributed to me getting bombarded with Espresso last year. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think we’ve heard enough of that. I’ll admit it, it’s so convenient to just turn on my Daylist. Sometimes I’m in the car, or about to get on the treadmill, and I just don’t want to put in the mental work of looking for something to listen to. Here’s the other thing about Daylists that make them tempting to pick. They’re just so hyper specific. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My Daylist playlist is called Supergroup Ripped Jeans Tuesday Afternoon. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Indie Chill Hipster Evening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Cueva: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Clavé, Barbershop, Friday Morning. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For the record, as I write this narration, mine is “Ethereal Alien Club Classics Afternoon,” with genres like Brat Summer, Indie Sleeze, and Recession Pop? Somehow, Ethereal Alien Club Classics includes Frank Ocean, Midski, and of course, Charlie XCX. But how did Spotify come up with these niche micro genres? How do artists feel about getting lumped into them? And how does this affect the way that we discover music? That’s a new tab, but we’ll have to save that for next week. So for now, we’re actually leaving this last tab open. We can close the rest though. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios and is reported and hosted by me, Morgan Sung. Our Producer is Maya Cueva. Chris Egusa is our Senior Editor. Jen Chien is KQED’s Director of Podcasts and helps edit the show. Sound design by Chris Egusa and Brendan Willard. Original music by Chris Egusa. Additional music by APM. Mixing and mastering by Brendan Willard. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad and Alana Walker. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager, and Holly Kernan is our Chief Content Officer. Support for this program comes from Birong Hu and supporters of the KQED Studios Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Keyboard sounds were recorded on my purple and pink Dustsilver K-84 wired mechanical keyboard with Gateron red switches. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you have feedback or a topic you think we should cover, hit us up at CloseAllTabs@KQED.org, follow us on Instagram @CloseAllTabsPod, or drop it on Discord. We’re in the Close All Tabs channel at Discord.gg/KQED. And if you’re enjoying the show, give us a rating on Apple Podcasts or whatever platform you use. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks for listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"slug": "in-song-and-self-how-queer-pinay-duo-astralogik-finds-belonging-through-music",
"title": "In Song and Self: How Queer Pinay Duo AstraLogik Finds Belonging Through Music",
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"headTitle": "In Song and Self: How Queer Pinay Duo AstraLogik Finds Belonging Through Music | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>On a warm evening in a backyard tucked into a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/tag/oakland\">North Oakland neighborhood\u003c/a>, people sipped drinks, sat on outdoor cushions and blankets, their heads turned toward a small stage strung with lights. At the center were two women, one singing, the other strumming a guitar.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We wrote this song 13 years ago,” said Charito Soriano, before launching into the opening chords of “Be,” the first song she ever wrote with her musical partner, Chen Conlu. “It still applies today. Our music is like a self-help book for me. I hope it self-helps you, too.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As \u003ca href=\"https://astralogik.com/\">AstraLogik, Soriano and Conlu\u003c/a> have been performing together for more than a decade. Their music blends R&B, soul and spoken word with themes of healing, self-acceptance, and identity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They met nearly 15 years ago through a mutual friend who insisted they had to connect. The first time they played together — Soriano singing, Conlu on guitar — something clicked. Soriano later wrote “Be” during a jam session with Conlu, scribbling lyrics on a napkin as Conlu played the guitar.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’ve never done that before,” Soriano said. “I’ve never been so inspired by hearing someone play that I was just like, ‘Oh, I want to write all this stuff down. I’m going to sing on top of it.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12042270\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12042270\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-21-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-21-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-21-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-21-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-21-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-21-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-21-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Charito Soriano holds family photos at home in Hayward on May 30, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>That chemistry sparked not only a musical partnership but a personal one. The two eventually became romantic partners and creative collaborators. Through music, they found a way to understand themselves more deeply, as individuals and as a couple.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Soriano said she often felt the weight of her family’s expectations growing up in an immigrant household, where success often meant chasing a version of the American dream tied to social status and constant productivity. But through her relationship with Conlu, she began to question that pace and the pressure to always do more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was always chasing something, trying to be the good daughter, thinking about what I had to do next,” Soriano said. “But Chen was one of the few people that showed me that it’s okay to slow down, to sit still and not think about tomorrow.”[aside postID=news_12040449 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250513-REENA-ESMAIL-1-KQED-1020x680.jpg']Their name, \u003ca href=\"https://astralogik.com/\">AstraLogik\u003c/a>, reflects the roles they play in each other’s lives. Conlu is the “Astra” — the dreamer. Soriano is the “Logik” — the planner. Through their music and partnership, they’ve learned to slow down, listen inward and be present.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As children of Filipino immigrants who grew up outside the Philippines, both have wrestled with what it means to be Filipino in diaspora.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Conlu, raised in Guam, said she often felt out of place among her Chamorro peers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I honestly didn’t identify as a Filipino in school,” Conlu said. “I was trying to understand, how come this family speaks different languages from my family? When I was younger, I was always questioning my whereabouts and who I belonged to.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Her relationship with Filipino culture deepened after moving to the United States after high school. She learned Filipino martial arts and was exposed to home-cooked Filipino food through her cousins in Seattle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Soriano, meanwhile, grew up in the Bay Area but still felt disconnected from her heritage as a kid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12042269\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12042269\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-18-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-18-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-18-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-18-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-18-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-18-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-18-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Chen Conlu holds a photo of family members at home in Hayward on May 30, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“I lived in the ‘suburbias’ of California,” she said. “I almost didn’t feel Filipino for a long time. Most of my young life, when I was a child and an adolescent, I was trying to be what I saw on TV, which was pretty white people.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Her experience is far from unique. Anthony Ocampo, a sociologist and author who studies the Filipino American experience, said many Filipinos raised outside ethnic enclaves often grow up ashamed of their heritage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m seeing more and more Filipinos trying to assert their American-ness or their sense of belonging,” Ocampo said. “Part of that is actually othering and marginalizing people in their own community.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ocampo tied that internalized shame and obsession with whiteness to nearly four centuries of Western colonization in the Philippines — first by Spain, from 1565 to 1898, and then by the United States until 1946. And that colonial legacy still affects many Filipino Americans today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12042264\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12042264 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-07-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-07-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-07-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-07-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-07-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-07-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-07-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Charito Soriano (left) and Chen Conlu practice for an upcoming show for their band AstraLogik at their home in Hayward on May 30, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>But he also sees a growing number of Filipino artists using their work to reverse that trend and embrace their heritage with pride.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And that’s exactly what AstraLogik is doing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think the awareness of how colonialism has taken hold of our culture, our internal programming since birth,” Conlu said. “I think it’s acknowledging that, being brave to step out of that matrix.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>AstraLogik’s music has become a vessel for that reclamation. Through lyrics and community performances, they create spaces that affirm their intersecting identities — queer, Filipina and children of immigrants.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Coming out queer wasn’t easy. Soriano struggled with the fear of losing family support and being judged by her community.[aside postID=news_12037162 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/250407-EL-COMPA-NEGRO-01-KQED-1020x680.jpg']But performing and making music with Conlu allowed her to show up authentically.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Having music to continuously be together and show ourselves, and to see how the response was that we are embraced,” Soriano said. “It’s the only reason that we’re still getting gigs today. People accept us how we are.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Through music, they’ve found a way not just to express, but to build a community. Their songs have become affirmations of identity, resilience, and love. And in a time of rising anti-LGBTQ+ legislation across the country, \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclu.org/legislative-attacks-on-lgbtq-rights-2025\">including bills targeting gender-affirming care and inclusive curricula\u003c/a>, creating a space for joy and connection feels more urgent than ever.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>AstraLogik performs mostly at community-based shows across the Bay Area, like the backyard concert in Oakland. Conlu said intimate spaces like these are where true connections happen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“During these crazy times, I just hope we can still gather in community,” she said. “And still find joy in the sadness that we’re all going through.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>I-Yun Chan is a recent graduate of UC Berkeley Graduate School of Journalism and an audio producer covering mental health, human rights and the LGBTQ+ community.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>On a warm evening in a backyard tucked into a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/tag/oakland\">North Oakland neighborhood\u003c/a>, people sipped drinks, sat on outdoor cushions and blankets, their heads turned toward a small stage strung with lights. At the center were two women, one singing, the other strumming a guitar.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We wrote this song 13 years ago,” said Charito Soriano, before launching into the opening chords of “Be,” the first song she ever wrote with her musical partner, Chen Conlu. “It still applies today. Our music is like a self-help book for me. I hope it self-helps you, too.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As \u003ca href=\"https://astralogik.com/\">AstraLogik, Soriano and Conlu\u003c/a> have been performing together for more than a decade. Their music blends R&B, soul and spoken word with themes of healing, self-acceptance, and identity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They met nearly 15 years ago through a mutual friend who insisted they had to connect. The first time they played together — Soriano singing, Conlu on guitar — something clicked. Soriano later wrote “Be” during a jam session with Conlu, scribbling lyrics on a napkin as Conlu played the guitar.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’ve never done that before,” Soriano said. “I’ve never been so inspired by hearing someone play that I was just like, ‘Oh, I want to write all this stuff down. I’m going to sing on top of it.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12042270\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12042270\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-21-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-21-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-21-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-21-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-21-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-21-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-21-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Charito Soriano holds family photos at home in Hayward on May 30, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>That chemistry sparked not only a musical partnership but a personal one. The two eventually became romantic partners and creative collaborators. Through music, they found a way to understand themselves more deeply, as individuals and as a couple.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Soriano said she often felt the weight of her family’s expectations growing up in an immigrant household, where success often meant chasing a version of the American dream tied to social status and constant productivity. But through her relationship with Conlu, she began to question that pace and the pressure to always do more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was always chasing something, trying to be the good daughter, thinking about what I had to do next,” Soriano said. “But Chen was one of the few people that showed me that it’s okay to slow down, to sit still and not think about tomorrow.”\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Their name, \u003ca href=\"https://astralogik.com/\">AstraLogik\u003c/a>, reflects the roles they play in each other’s lives. Conlu is the “Astra” — the dreamer. Soriano is the “Logik” — the planner. Through their music and partnership, they’ve learned to slow down, listen inward and be present.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As children of Filipino immigrants who grew up outside the Philippines, both have wrestled with what it means to be Filipino in diaspora.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Conlu, raised in Guam, said she often felt out of place among her Chamorro peers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I honestly didn’t identify as a Filipino in school,” Conlu said. “I was trying to understand, how come this family speaks different languages from my family? When I was younger, I was always questioning my whereabouts and who I belonged to.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Her relationship with Filipino culture deepened after moving to the United States after high school. She learned Filipino martial arts and was exposed to home-cooked Filipino food through her cousins in Seattle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Soriano, meanwhile, grew up in the Bay Area but still felt disconnected from her heritage as a kid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12042269\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12042269\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-18-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-18-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-18-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-18-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-18-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-18-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-18-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Chen Conlu holds a photo of family members at home in Hayward on May 30, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“I lived in the ‘suburbias’ of California,” she said. “I almost didn’t feel Filipino for a long time. Most of my young life, when I was a child and an adolescent, I was trying to be what I saw on TV, which was pretty white people.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Her experience is far from unique. Anthony Ocampo, a sociologist and author who studies the Filipino American experience, said many Filipinos raised outside ethnic enclaves often grow up ashamed of their heritage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m seeing more and more Filipinos trying to assert their American-ness or their sense of belonging,” Ocampo said. “Part of that is actually othering and marginalizing people in their own community.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ocampo tied that internalized shame and obsession with whiteness to nearly four centuries of Western colonization in the Philippines — first by Spain, from 1565 to 1898, and then by the United States until 1946. And that colonial legacy still affects many Filipino Americans today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12042264\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12042264 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-07-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-07-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-07-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-07-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-07-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-07-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250530-ASTRALOGIK-07-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Charito Soriano (left) and Chen Conlu practice for an upcoming show for their band AstraLogik at their home in Hayward on May 30, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>But he also sees a growing number of Filipino artists using their work to reverse that trend and embrace their heritage with pride.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And that’s exactly what AstraLogik is doing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think the awareness of how colonialism has taken hold of our culture, our internal programming since birth,” Conlu said. “I think it’s acknowledging that, being brave to step out of that matrix.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>AstraLogik’s music has become a vessel for that reclamation. Through lyrics and community performances, they create spaces that affirm their intersecting identities — queer, Filipina and children of immigrants.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Coming out queer wasn’t easy. Soriano struggled with the fear of losing family support and being judged by her community.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>But performing and making music with Conlu allowed her to show up authentically.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Having music to continuously be together and show ourselves, and to see how the response was that we are embraced,” Soriano said. “It’s the only reason that we’re still getting gigs today. People accept us how we are.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Through music, they’ve found a way not just to express, but to build a community. Their songs have become affirmations of identity, resilience, and love. And in a time of rising anti-LGBTQ+ legislation across the country, \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclu.org/legislative-attacks-on-lgbtq-rights-2025\">including bills targeting gender-affirming care and inclusive curricula\u003c/a>, creating a space for joy and connection feels more urgent than ever.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>AstraLogik performs mostly at community-based shows across the Bay Area, like the backyard concert in Oakland. Conlu said intimate spaces like these are where true connections happen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“During these crazy times, I just hope we can still gather in community,” she said. “And still find joy in the sadness that we’re all going through.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>I-Yun Chan is a recent graduate of UC Berkeley Graduate School of Journalism and an audio producer covering mental health, human rights and the LGBTQ+ community.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"slug": "are-californias-ai-rules-in-jeopardy-plus-new-data-on-oaklands-non-police-response-and-the-bay-areas-ruby-ibarra-wins-nprs-tiny-desk-contest",
"title": "Are California’s AI Rules in Jeopardy? Plus, New Data on Oakland’s Non-Police Response, and the Bay Area’s Ruby Ibarra Wins NPR’s Tiny Desk Contest",
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"labelTerm": {},
"content": "\u003cp>On this month’s edition of The Bay’s news roundup, we talk about a proposed 10-year ban on state AI regulations that the House of Representatives passed as part of President Trump’s budget bill. Plus, Oakland’s MACRO program – a non-emergency alternative to police – releases new data, and the Bay Area’s very own Ruby Ibarra wins NPR’s Tiny Desk Contest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli class=\"entry-title \">\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2025/05/state-ai-regulation-ban/\">Californians would lose AI protections under bill advancing in Congress\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.ktvu.com/news/oaklands-macro-touts-improvements-despite-criticism-needs-4m-year-survive\">Oakland’s MACRO touts improvements despite criticism; needs $4M a year to survive\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/05/29/g-s1-69049/ruby-ibarra-tiny-desk-concert\">Ruby Ibarra: NPR Tiny Desk Concert\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC5175160153&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:54] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. And welcome to the Bay’s May news roundup where I sit down with the rest of the Bay team to talk about some of the other Bay Area stories that we’ve been following this month. I’m joined by our producer, Jessica Carissa. Hey Jessica.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:12] \u003c/em>Hey.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:14] \u003c/em>And senior editor, Alan Montesilio. What’s up, Alan?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:17] \u003c/em>Hello.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:18] \u003c/em>And also our intern, Mel Velasquez.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mel Velasquez: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:21] \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:22] \u003c/em>Well, first I wanna take a quick look back at some of the stories that we did cover on this show this month. This May we marked 50 years since the fall of Saigon and talked about how that moment in history really shaped Santa Clara County and San Jose as we know it today. We discussed the Trump administration’s cancelation of federal arts funds and what that is going to mean for the local art scene here in the Bay Area. And we talked about the Golden State Valkyries who began their first season here in the Bay area and also they recently had their first win. And Mel, I wanna turn to you for a second because you actually went out to a pre-season game party in the Mission to get a sense of the vibes, the excitement around the Valkyrys for our show. And you also went to the home opener. How was that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mel Velasquez: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:22] \u003c/em>It was really fun, it was really packed. I went to Standard Deviant, which is in the mission, and it was hosted by Ricky’s, which will be the new women’s sports bar that’s coming to the Castro soon. There were a lot of people who were excited for the Valkyries, and it just a pre-season game. Um, but then when I went to the home opener, it was completely sold out. I mean, the energy was insane. They had pyrotechnics inside the Chase Center. It was a sea of purple. People were screaming and then they had like the segment where they were showing like the first Valkyries fan that entered the Chase Center at their first game. There was just like a lot of celebration, yeah it was just a really good time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:03:17] \u003c/em>And if you listen to the show, you probably know that our senior editor, Alan Montecilio, is a basketball head. Alan, how have you been feeling about the Valkyries starting their season here in the Bay? I mean, you already have a Valkry’s sweater.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:03:35] \u003c/em>Oh yeah, I have a Valkyries hoodie. Got a lot of compliments on it. Thank you for asking. As Mel was saying, they really leaned into the first theme. The t-shirts around the stands had the words first of a lifetime on them. And actually we have two wins as of this taping. The Valkyrys are two and two. You know, expectations for a lot of wins are not super high, but it’s more about getting excited for the team, getting to know the players. So yeah, it’s cool to just walk around and see people wearing the gear and watching Chase Center. Get really loud. I mean the Warriors season is over too so you know for the next four to five months the Valkyries will be the only pro basketball team in the Bay Area playing at Chase Center.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:16] \u003c/em>That’s true, I didn’t even think about that. And yeah, I really have been seeing more and more gear out there. Last weekend we went and visited Jessica in San Jose, where she lives, and I feel like I was even seeing Valkyrie’s gear out in the wild over there. Are you excited about the Valkyrys, Jessica? Are you planning to watch?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:41] \u003c/em>Oh yeah, definitely. I think, you know, I’m just really excited for women’s sports period in the Bay Area. I think being down in San Jose, I’m pretty close to where Bay FC plays. And so that’s also a top of my list as a summer activity. And when we covered the Valkyries, I was looking up a lot of sports content. And so now my YouTube algorithm is just purely basketball. So that’s, also dragged me into the NBA playoffs too. I’m generally just really excited about sports this summer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:13] \u003c/em>Yes, join us. The algorithm is roping you in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:20] \u003c/em>Well, Mel, thank you so much for joining us for this first part of our news roundup.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mel Velasquez: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:27] \u003c/em>It’s always a pleasure, Ericka. And when we come back, we’ll dig into some of the other stories that we’ve been following this month. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:44] \u003c/em>And welcome back to the Bays Monthly News Roundup where we talk about some of the other stories that we’ve been following this month and Alan will dive right in with your story. What have you been following?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:55] \u003c/em>Well, obviously, at the federal level, one of the biggest pieces of news is President Trump’s so-called big, beautiful bill, a.k.a. The big budget reconciliation bill that is making its way through Congress recently past the House. There are many different aspects to it that are getting attention, including potential cuts to the safety net, things like Medicaid, Medicare, potential tax breaks for the rich. But one. Element of this bill that has also gotten attention here in California has to do with artificial intelligence. Most of the reporting I read to prep for this segment, uh, comes from Kari Johnson from CalMatters. So the bill that passed the house recently that’s being considered in the Senate includes a moratorium, essentially a ban on state regulations of AI for 10 years, you know, that has obviously caused considerable alarm here in California. Which is not only home to many, many AI companies, including OpenAI, but also home to many state-level regulations of\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:55] \u003c/em>Wow, I mean, living in Silicon Valley and being a journalist, I can definitely understand the concerns, you know, articles have been used to train AI, and that’s been a big issue. But I guess what’s the argument behind this ban?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:12] \u003c/em>One argument that House Republicans have made is that we essentially have a patchwork of regulations right now when it comes to AI.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rep. Jay Obernolte: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:19] \u003c/em>What we absolutely cannot have is a situation where the rules on the governance of AI change every time the winds of political fortune shift one way or another.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:29] \u003c/em>Representative Jay Obernolte, who is a Republican and represents parts of LA, Kern County, San Bernardino counties, at a committee hearing earlier this month, basically argued that this patchwork of regulations that we have across states, so it’s different in each state, is bad for U.S. Competitiveness. It’s bad for entrepreneurs who will sort of have to navigate different sets of rules across states.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rep. Jay Obernolte: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:54] \u003c/em>Innovators and investors that are making billion-dollar decisions on R&D and procurement, and they need regulatory certainty to do that, and the only way that that happens is if we provide that leadership.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:09:04] \u003c/em>Some Republicans have argued that this moratorium would pave the way for a more comprehensive federal approach to AI. But I think big picture, President Trump and his administration have signaled an interest in deregulation more broadly, whether it’s AI, whether its the environment, whether it’s financial institutions. So there’s sort of different arguments in that vein, but those are some of the reasons why there’s this 10-year ban on regulations of AI in this bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:09:35] \u003c/em>So I mean, how would this even work exactly, Alan? I mean aren’t we talking about laws that have already been passed by the California State Legislature and signed into law? And then isn’t California also currently considering a bunch of AI regulations now? I mean what would this ban do exactly? How would it work?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:01] \u003c/em>Well, I mean, it would make it unlawful to enforce many of our laws regarding AI here in California, and it would potentially preempt the nearly 30 bills that are currently being considered in the California state legislature. Now last year, the legislature passed around 20 laws related to AI. Some advocates wanted the state to get going even stronger on regulations, but there For many that did pass, including things like… Um, requiring political campaigns to disclose when AI is being used in advertising measures that protect children, you know, requiring companies to provide free AI detection tools to the public. This 10 year ban would render many of these measures unlawful to enforce.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:43] \u003c/em>What have the reactions been?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:45] \u003c/em>You know, some Democrats in Congress have expressed concern, although they don’t really have any power to stop it since they’re in the minority.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rep Kevin Mullen: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:51] \u003c/em>The idea that we have to pick between innovation and safeguards just doesn’t hold up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:55] \u003c/em>Representative Kevin Mullen, who represents the peninsula, sat in an energy committee hearing that he thinks this sort of blanket deregulation, as he called it, isn’t the right approach.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rep Kevin Mullen: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:05] \u003c/em>The real threat to U.S. Leadership in AI isn’t regulation, it’s inaction. If we allow AI systems operate without guardrails, we risk eroding public trust. So when we talk about AI regulation and American leadership, the real question isn’t whether to regulate. It’s where and how.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:23] \u003c/em>The California Privacy Protection Agency sent a letter to Congress saying that this moratorium could, quote, rob millions of Americans of rights they already enjoy. So certainly from, you know, many Democrats here in California and privacy advocates, This is pretty alarming.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:39] \u003c/em>I mean, will this ban on AI regulations actually happen or not? Like how likely is it that this will in fact move forward?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:52] \u003c/em>It’s unclear, and it’s a little wheezy, but the reason it’s unclear is because the so-called big, beautiful bill of President Trump’s is what’s called a budget reconciliation bill, which is to say that this sweeping bill needs to include measures that are related to fiscal matters in order for it to pass, and in order to only need 51 senators for it pass. One privacy advocate who spoke to Kari Johnson from CalMatters… Pointed out that a 10 year moratorium on AI regulations, is that a fiscal matter? I mean, probably not. But these advocates are still concerned because it sort of puts a marker down for how House Republicans are thinking about this issue. And maybe even if it doesn’t make it into this giant budget bill, it may get attached to a different bill related to AI later down the line.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:12:38] \u003c/em>Well, definitely something to watch in the coming months. Alan, thank you so much. And next we have my story that I’ve been following this month, which is an update on an alternative to police that was established in Oakland after the murder of George Floyd in 2020. If you all remember, Oakland really became the epicenter nationally of efforts to find an alternative to policing. They really went ahead with a program really try to do that and now there’s new data on how that alternative has been working in the last few years. Oakland’s civilian response team also known as the mobile assistance community responders of Oakland you probably know it more or hear it more so referred to as MACRO has responded to more than 6 000 incidents last year according to a report released to the city council this week. And it was able to divert hundreds of calls away from law enforcement and emergency services according to this data, which the folks behind MACRO really see as a success.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:02] \u003c/em>You mentioned that they responded to over 6,000 incidents, and those were instances that people avoided calling the police. So what kinds of non-emergency incidents were they responding to?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:15] \u003c/em>Yeah, so MACRO was really looking at the kind of situations that have too often led to violence only after police show up. You know, a mental health crisis that escalates, a man sleeping in a car, for example, and they really stress that their focus is these non-violent incidents. Anything that involves violence is really, in their minds, a police matter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:42] \u003c/em>So what else can you tell us about this data? And I’m curious, are there any areas of improvements, places where macro could do better?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:50] \u003c/em>Yeah, so the data shows that most of the incidents that they responded to occurred downtown and on city streets. So really, this shows that they’re dealing mostly with the city’s unhoused population. And the most common incident was actually a wellness check that made up 54% of the calls that they received. That was followed by sleeping checks and also behavioral concerns. Most notably, Macro says that its dispatched responses diverted 34% of calls away from law enforcement and away from emergency services. Almost 100% of these incidents were resolved on site without requiring police or EMS intervention. Elliot Jones, who’s the program manager for Macro, delivered some of this data to Oakland City Council earlier this week in. He shared this example of the kind of stuff that they’re responding to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Elliot Jones: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:15:52] \u003c/em>Couple days ago, we get a call about an elderly individual on a porch on the North Oakland Berkeley border. We get there, this man had wandered out of his home. He was having memory issues, but MACRO was able to respond and make the connection. And while it doesn’t always show up on the stat sheet, and the news report didn’t include us, it did say, update, he’s been found.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:13] \u003c/em>That said, there was criticism at the city council meeting around macro. Some say that the team is just too limited in the things that it could actually do to help the problems going on in Oakland. Some say that too few 911 calls are being even routed to macro. Others said that, you know, this money could be used for the Oakland fire department, which has had to close fire stations around the city. And others say that not enough people know that macro is even a service that’s available to people in the community. There’s also this question around independent auditing of macro. These numbers that were shared at the city council meeting were mostly just numbers that macro itself was keeping track of. And Jones agrees with critics that there should be some sort of independent oversight. And monitoring of how exactly Macro is doing to help him make the case that this is a program actually worth keeping around if it could get the resources it needs to do what I think many Oaklanders have really demanded after the death of George Floyd.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:17:33] \u003c/em>So, I mean, what happens next? I mean I know Oakland’s in the middle of a major budget crisis. So, you know, is macro gonna be able to stick around? Do we know anything?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:17:45] \u003c/em>Yeah, I think Elliot Jones, Macros program manager, is very aware of Oakland’s budget issues. He told KTVU that a state grant of $10 million that they’ve been using to really run this program ends next year, at the end of 2026, and that it’s gonna take about $4 million annually to keep this program running. And Joan says that he is working with the city and also really looking for grants to make sure that this kind of program can stay afloat in Oakland. All right, and that is it for the story I’ve been following this month. Jessica Kariisa, we will end it off with you and a fun story\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:18:40] \u003c/em>Yeah, this is more maybe an announcement than story per se, but the Bay Area’s very own Ruby Ibarra won NPR’s 2025 Tiny Desk Contest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ruby Ibarra (rapping): \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:18:52] \u003c/em>Hello America, break your backs for dollars they don’t carry ya Seven thousand miles away from home with language barriers Land of opportunity, tell me is it good to ya But six feet deep on stolen land is where they bury ya November 1991\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:19:04] \u003c/em>She was chosen as the winner from over 7,000 submissions of independent artists from across the country. It’s a really huge deal. It’s really huge platform. Most people have heard of Tiny Desk. She’s joining the ranks of lots of great artists, including Fantastic Negrito, who also was based in the Bay Area, and Tank and the Bangas, and so many other great artists.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ruby Ibarra (rapping): \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:19:29] \u003c/em>They always feed in a slice Made to believe I don’t exist unless I wear a disguise Cause I’ve been constantly lying Too broken to die till I cry Till I no longer recognize the person that was inside Until we fail like the sun\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:19:40] \u003c/em>This is super exciting for the Bay Area. Ruby Ibarra is someone who, you know, I’ve been aware of for a while because she’s Filipina. ECG as well. But Jessica, can you tell us a bit more about her background in the Bay area and the kind of music she performs?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:19:56] \u003c/em>For sure, yeah. So Ruby, she was born in the Philippines. She immigrated to the U.S. As a young child. She grew up in San Lorenzo, shout out to the East Bay. And, you know, she’s been making music for a while. I mean, her debut mixtape came out in 2012. Her immigrant experience has been a huge part of her music, dating back to her debut album, Circa 91. You know, her raps in multiple languages. She raps English and also multiple Filipino languages, including Tagalog and her native Waray. You know, she’s someone I heard about when I first moved to the Bay Area and was looking into the music scene. She’s really just been a staple in the Bay area as an independent artist for so long. So this really feels like a victory lap and a culmination of all her really hard work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:20:43] \u003c/em>One thing I really love about Ruby Ibara, I feel like she’s one of those artists who shares in her success. Like she lifts up others as she’s also coming up. I got a chance to interview her at a Filipino arts event that we did at KQED in 2023. And one of the things that she did during her performance was like, have a young up and coming Filipino American artists perform with her. And I feel like. She also really highlights other people in the community in the winning song that she performed. Can you talk a little bit more about the tiny desk that she preformed and that actually ended up winning?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:21:25] \u003c/em>Yeah, so the song is called Bakunawa.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ruby Ibarra (rapping): \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:21:28] \u003c/em>I need a Samaria combined into one I’ve been blue like the ocean, we all grew When we moved one of you like our red Till I’m white, that’s the bluest Blue like the moon, like the eyes in the brew\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:21:38] \u003c/em>and it’s a reference to a dragon-like serpent in Philippine mythology who swallows the moon and is believed to cause eclipses, earthquakes, and you know other weather-related events. Basically like a disruptive force that typically people want to banish but she told KQED that she wanted to flip the story and embody the Bakunawa.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Singing: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:22:00] \u003c/em>Hoi hoi hoiii\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:22:08] \u003c/em>and that she interpreted the story as a metaphor for resistance and a battle cry against erasure. And the performance video is really cool. She had an all-Filipina band. She was pregnant with her first child while she made the song and while she recorded the video. And so she’s talked about how her daughter and being pregnant has also played a big part in it. And also the song is just great. It’s really funky. There’s a spoken word portion. There’s the rap portion. Like I said before, it’s in multiple languages. And it’s just a really, really beautiful, powerful video.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Singing: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:22:45] \u003c/em>If I don’t know me, what is my past? If I dont know me what is…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:22:58] \u003c/em>So winning Tiny Desk. Huge deal. So what happens now that she’s won the contest?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:23:03] \u003c/em>She submitted her video, she won, and the next step was to record an actual Tiny Desk at the Tiny Desks in D.C. And that just dropped on YouTube, so you can go watch that. And that performance is expanded. It’s three songs, so, you get to listen to a bit more of her catalog. And she’s also going to headline a 10-city Tiny Desktour this summer. You can buy tickets to that already at tinydeskcontest.npr.org. There’ll be a stop in the Bay Area and Petaluma. And yeah, I mean, like you were saying, it’s a huge, huge platform. So, you know, she’s already collected new fans. She’ll keep collecting more new fans and it’s really gonna be just a huge leveling up of her career.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ruby Ibarra (rapping): \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:23:47] \u003c/em>The sun touched my skin in hopes that I’d win Hands etched with sorrows deeper than the ocean’s depths History rooted in my people’s death This breath been enveloped, consumed, swallowed whole On nights where one moon seems fleeting so Even seven moons don’t illuminate like my soul My rage spoon-feeder, moon eater, truth keeper Naabay kahadlukan wala diri Bisaya ni ang dilahait kaayotan awa ni Gigaun ang bulan revolution in me Naan na ang bakunawa Rebirth the new moon\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:24:26] \u003c/em>It’s so exciting to see Ruby Ibarra up there on that tiny desk and representing the Bay Area and Bay Area Pin Eyes. Thanks for sharing this one, Jessica.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:24:37] \u003c/em>Yeah, absolutely.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:24:45] \u003c/em>Well, that’s it for the Bays monthly news roundup. Jessica Kariisa, producer, and Alan Montecillo, thank you both so much for joining me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ci>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/i>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"excerpt": "On this month’s edition of The Bay’s news roundup, we talk about a proposed 10-year ban on state AI regulations that the House of Representatives passed as part of President Trump’s budget bill. Plus, Oakland’s MACRO program – a non-emergency alternative to police – releases new data, and the Bay Area’s very own Ruby Ibarra wins NPR’s Tiny Desk Contest.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>On this month’s edition of The Bay’s news roundup, we talk about a proposed 10-year ban on state AI regulations that the House of Representatives passed as part of President Trump’s budget bill. Plus, Oakland’s MACRO program – a non-emergency alternative to police – releases new data, and the Bay Area’s very own Ruby Ibarra wins NPR’s Tiny Desk Contest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli class=\"entry-title \">\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2025/05/state-ai-regulation-ban/\">Californians would lose AI protections under bill advancing in Congress\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.ktvu.com/news/oaklands-macro-touts-improvements-despite-criticism-needs-4m-year-survive\">Oakland’s MACRO touts improvements despite criticism; needs $4M a year to survive\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/05/29/g-s1-69049/ruby-ibarra-tiny-desk-concert\">Ruby Ibarra: NPR Tiny Desk Concert\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC5175160153&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:54] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. And welcome to the Bay’s May news roundup where I sit down with the rest of the Bay team to talk about some of the other Bay Area stories that we’ve been following this month. I’m joined by our producer, Jessica Carissa. Hey Jessica.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:12] \u003c/em>Hey.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:14] \u003c/em>And senior editor, Alan Montesilio. What’s up, Alan?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:17] \u003c/em>Hello.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:18] \u003c/em>And also our intern, Mel Velasquez.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mel Velasquez: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:21] \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:22] \u003c/em>Well, first I wanna take a quick look back at some of the stories that we did cover on this show this month. This May we marked 50 years since the fall of Saigon and talked about how that moment in history really shaped Santa Clara County and San Jose as we know it today. We discussed the Trump administration’s cancelation of federal arts funds and what that is going to mean for the local art scene here in the Bay Area. And we talked about the Golden State Valkyries who began their first season here in the Bay area and also they recently had their first win. And Mel, I wanna turn to you for a second because you actually went out to a pre-season game party in the Mission to get a sense of the vibes, the excitement around the Valkyrys for our show. And you also went to the home opener. How was that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mel Velasquez: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:22] \u003c/em>It was really fun, it was really packed. I went to Standard Deviant, which is in the mission, and it was hosted by Ricky’s, which will be the new women’s sports bar that’s coming to the Castro soon. There were a lot of people who were excited for the Valkyries, and it just a pre-season game. Um, but then when I went to the home opener, it was completely sold out. I mean, the energy was insane. They had pyrotechnics inside the Chase Center. It was a sea of purple. People were screaming and then they had like the segment where they were showing like the first Valkyries fan that entered the Chase Center at their first game. There was just like a lot of celebration, yeah it was just a really good time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:03:17] \u003c/em>And if you listen to the show, you probably know that our senior editor, Alan Montecilio, is a basketball head. Alan, how have you been feeling about the Valkyries starting their season here in the Bay? I mean, you already have a Valkry’s sweater.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:03:35] \u003c/em>Oh yeah, I have a Valkyries hoodie. Got a lot of compliments on it. Thank you for asking. As Mel was saying, they really leaned into the first theme. The t-shirts around the stands had the words first of a lifetime on them. And actually we have two wins as of this taping. The Valkyrys are two and two. You know, expectations for a lot of wins are not super high, but it’s more about getting excited for the team, getting to know the players. So yeah, it’s cool to just walk around and see people wearing the gear and watching Chase Center. Get really loud. I mean the Warriors season is over too so you know for the next four to five months the Valkyries will be the only pro basketball team in the Bay Area playing at Chase Center.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:16] \u003c/em>That’s true, I didn’t even think about that. And yeah, I really have been seeing more and more gear out there. Last weekend we went and visited Jessica in San Jose, where she lives, and I feel like I was even seeing Valkyrie’s gear out in the wild over there. Are you excited about the Valkyrys, Jessica? Are you planning to watch?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:41] \u003c/em>Oh yeah, definitely. I think, you know, I’m just really excited for women’s sports period in the Bay Area. I think being down in San Jose, I’m pretty close to where Bay FC plays. And so that’s also a top of my list as a summer activity. And when we covered the Valkyries, I was looking up a lot of sports content. And so now my YouTube algorithm is just purely basketball. So that’s, also dragged me into the NBA playoffs too. I’m generally just really excited about sports this summer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:13] \u003c/em>Yes, join us. The algorithm is roping you in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:20] \u003c/em>Well, Mel, thank you so much for joining us for this first part of our news roundup.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mel Velasquez: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:27] \u003c/em>It’s always a pleasure, Ericka. And when we come back, we’ll dig into some of the other stories that we’ve been following this month. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:44] \u003c/em>And welcome back to the Bays Monthly News Roundup where we talk about some of the other stories that we’ve been following this month and Alan will dive right in with your story. What have you been following?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:55] \u003c/em>Well, obviously, at the federal level, one of the biggest pieces of news is President Trump’s so-called big, beautiful bill, a.k.a. The big budget reconciliation bill that is making its way through Congress recently past the House. There are many different aspects to it that are getting attention, including potential cuts to the safety net, things like Medicaid, Medicare, potential tax breaks for the rich. But one. Element of this bill that has also gotten attention here in California has to do with artificial intelligence. Most of the reporting I read to prep for this segment, uh, comes from Kari Johnson from CalMatters. So the bill that passed the house recently that’s being considered in the Senate includes a moratorium, essentially a ban on state regulations of AI for 10 years, you know, that has obviously caused considerable alarm here in California. Which is not only home to many, many AI companies, including OpenAI, but also home to many state-level regulations of\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:55] \u003c/em>Wow, I mean, living in Silicon Valley and being a journalist, I can definitely understand the concerns, you know, articles have been used to train AI, and that’s been a big issue. But I guess what’s the argument behind this ban?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:12] \u003c/em>One argument that House Republicans have made is that we essentially have a patchwork of regulations right now when it comes to AI.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rep. Jay Obernolte: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:19] \u003c/em>What we absolutely cannot have is a situation where the rules on the governance of AI change every time the winds of political fortune shift one way or another.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:29] \u003c/em>Representative Jay Obernolte, who is a Republican and represents parts of LA, Kern County, San Bernardino counties, at a committee hearing earlier this month, basically argued that this patchwork of regulations that we have across states, so it’s different in each state, is bad for U.S. Competitiveness. It’s bad for entrepreneurs who will sort of have to navigate different sets of rules across states.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rep. Jay Obernolte: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:54] \u003c/em>Innovators and investors that are making billion-dollar decisions on R&D and procurement, and they need regulatory certainty to do that, and the only way that that happens is if we provide that leadership.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:09:04] \u003c/em>Some Republicans have argued that this moratorium would pave the way for a more comprehensive federal approach to AI. But I think big picture, President Trump and his administration have signaled an interest in deregulation more broadly, whether it’s AI, whether its the environment, whether it’s financial institutions. So there’s sort of different arguments in that vein, but those are some of the reasons why there’s this 10-year ban on regulations of AI in this bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:09:35] \u003c/em>So I mean, how would this even work exactly, Alan? I mean aren’t we talking about laws that have already been passed by the California State Legislature and signed into law? And then isn’t California also currently considering a bunch of AI regulations now? I mean what would this ban do exactly? How would it work?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:01] \u003c/em>Well, I mean, it would make it unlawful to enforce many of our laws regarding AI here in California, and it would potentially preempt the nearly 30 bills that are currently being considered in the California state legislature. Now last year, the legislature passed around 20 laws related to AI. Some advocates wanted the state to get going even stronger on regulations, but there For many that did pass, including things like… Um, requiring political campaigns to disclose when AI is being used in advertising measures that protect children, you know, requiring companies to provide free AI detection tools to the public. This 10 year ban would render many of these measures unlawful to enforce.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:43] \u003c/em>What have the reactions been?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:45] \u003c/em>You know, some Democrats in Congress have expressed concern, although they don’t really have any power to stop it since they’re in the minority.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rep Kevin Mullen: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:51] \u003c/em>The idea that we have to pick between innovation and safeguards just doesn’t hold up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:55] \u003c/em>Representative Kevin Mullen, who represents the peninsula, sat in an energy committee hearing that he thinks this sort of blanket deregulation, as he called it, isn’t the right approach.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rep Kevin Mullen: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:05] \u003c/em>The real threat to U.S. Leadership in AI isn’t regulation, it’s inaction. If we allow AI systems operate without guardrails, we risk eroding public trust. So when we talk about AI regulation and American leadership, the real question isn’t whether to regulate. It’s where and how.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:23] \u003c/em>The California Privacy Protection Agency sent a letter to Congress saying that this moratorium could, quote, rob millions of Americans of rights they already enjoy. So certainly from, you know, many Democrats here in California and privacy advocates, This is pretty alarming.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:39] \u003c/em>I mean, will this ban on AI regulations actually happen or not? Like how likely is it that this will in fact move forward?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:52] \u003c/em>It’s unclear, and it’s a little wheezy, but the reason it’s unclear is because the so-called big, beautiful bill of President Trump’s is what’s called a budget reconciliation bill, which is to say that this sweeping bill needs to include measures that are related to fiscal matters in order for it to pass, and in order to only need 51 senators for it pass. One privacy advocate who spoke to Kari Johnson from CalMatters… Pointed out that a 10 year moratorium on AI regulations, is that a fiscal matter? I mean, probably not. But these advocates are still concerned because it sort of puts a marker down for how House Republicans are thinking about this issue. And maybe even if it doesn’t make it into this giant budget bill, it may get attached to a different bill related to AI later down the line.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:12:38] \u003c/em>Well, definitely something to watch in the coming months. Alan, thank you so much. And next we have my story that I’ve been following this month, which is an update on an alternative to police that was established in Oakland after the murder of George Floyd in 2020. If you all remember, Oakland really became the epicenter nationally of efforts to find an alternative to policing. They really went ahead with a program really try to do that and now there’s new data on how that alternative has been working in the last few years. Oakland’s civilian response team also known as the mobile assistance community responders of Oakland you probably know it more or hear it more so referred to as MACRO has responded to more than 6 000 incidents last year according to a report released to the city council this week. And it was able to divert hundreds of calls away from law enforcement and emergency services according to this data, which the folks behind MACRO really see as a success.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:02] \u003c/em>You mentioned that they responded to over 6,000 incidents, and those were instances that people avoided calling the police. So what kinds of non-emergency incidents were they responding to?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:15] \u003c/em>Yeah, so MACRO was really looking at the kind of situations that have too often led to violence only after police show up. You know, a mental health crisis that escalates, a man sleeping in a car, for example, and they really stress that their focus is these non-violent incidents. Anything that involves violence is really, in their minds, a police matter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:42] \u003c/em>So what else can you tell us about this data? And I’m curious, are there any areas of improvements, places where macro could do better?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:50] \u003c/em>Yeah, so the data shows that most of the incidents that they responded to occurred downtown and on city streets. So really, this shows that they’re dealing mostly with the city’s unhoused population. And the most common incident was actually a wellness check that made up 54% of the calls that they received. That was followed by sleeping checks and also behavioral concerns. Most notably, Macro says that its dispatched responses diverted 34% of calls away from law enforcement and away from emergency services. Almost 100% of these incidents were resolved on site without requiring police or EMS intervention. Elliot Jones, who’s the program manager for Macro, delivered some of this data to Oakland City Council earlier this week in. He shared this example of the kind of stuff that they’re responding to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Elliot Jones: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:15:52] \u003c/em>Couple days ago, we get a call about an elderly individual on a porch on the North Oakland Berkeley border. We get there, this man had wandered out of his home. He was having memory issues, but MACRO was able to respond and make the connection. And while it doesn’t always show up on the stat sheet, and the news report didn’t include us, it did say, update, he’s been found.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:13] \u003c/em>That said, there was criticism at the city council meeting around macro. Some say that the team is just too limited in the things that it could actually do to help the problems going on in Oakland. Some say that too few 911 calls are being even routed to macro. Others said that, you know, this money could be used for the Oakland fire department, which has had to close fire stations around the city. And others say that not enough people know that macro is even a service that’s available to people in the community. There’s also this question around independent auditing of macro. These numbers that were shared at the city council meeting were mostly just numbers that macro itself was keeping track of. And Jones agrees with critics that there should be some sort of independent oversight. And monitoring of how exactly Macro is doing to help him make the case that this is a program actually worth keeping around if it could get the resources it needs to do what I think many Oaklanders have really demanded after the death of George Floyd.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:17:33] \u003c/em>So, I mean, what happens next? I mean I know Oakland’s in the middle of a major budget crisis. So, you know, is macro gonna be able to stick around? Do we know anything?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:17:45] \u003c/em>Yeah, I think Elliot Jones, Macros program manager, is very aware of Oakland’s budget issues. He told KTVU that a state grant of $10 million that they’ve been using to really run this program ends next year, at the end of 2026, and that it’s gonna take about $4 million annually to keep this program running. And Joan says that he is working with the city and also really looking for grants to make sure that this kind of program can stay afloat in Oakland. All right, and that is it for the story I’ve been following this month. Jessica Kariisa, we will end it off with you and a fun story\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:18:40] \u003c/em>Yeah, this is more maybe an announcement than story per se, but the Bay Area’s very own Ruby Ibarra won NPR’s 2025 Tiny Desk Contest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ruby Ibarra (rapping): \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:18:52] \u003c/em>Hello America, break your backs for dollars they don’t carry ya Seven thousand miles away from home with language barriers Land of opportunity, tell me is it good to ya But six feet deep on stolen land is where they bury ya November 1991\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:19:04] \u003c/em>She was chosen as the winner from over 7,000 submissions of independent artists from across the country. It’s a really huge deal. It’s really huge platform. Most people have heard of Tiny Desk. She’s joining the ranks of lots of great artists, including Fantastic Negrito, who also was based in the Bay Area, and Tank and the Bangas, and so many other great artists.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ruby Ibarra (rapping): \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:19:29] \u003c/em>They always feed in a slice Made to believe I don’t exist unless I wear a disguise Cause I’ve been constantly lying Too broken to die till I cry Till I no longer recognize the person that was inside Until we fail like the sun\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:19:40] \u003c/em>This is super exciting for the Bay Area. Ruby Ibarra is someone who, you know, I’ve been aware of for a while because she’s Filipina. ECG as well. But Jessica, can you tell us a bit more about her background in the Bay area and the kind of music she performs?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:19:56] \u003c/em>For sure, yeah. So Ruby, she was born in the Philippines. She immigrated to the U.S. As a young child. She grew up in San Lorenzo, shout out to the East Bay. And, you know, she’s been making music for a while. I mean, her debut mixtape came out in 2012. Her immigrant experience has been a huge part of her music, dating back to her debut album, Circa 91. You know, her raps in multiple languages. She raps English and also multiple Filipino languages, including Tagalog and her native Waray. You know, she’s someone I heard about when I first moved to the Bay Area and was looking into the music scene. She’s really just been a staple in the Bay area as an independent artist for so long. So this really feels like a victory lap and a culmination of all her really hard work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:20:43] \u003c/em>One thing I really love about Ruby Ibara, I feel like she’s one of those artists who shares in her success. Like she lifts up others as she’s also coming up. I got a chance to interview her at a Filipino arts event that we did at KQED in 2023. And one of the things that she did during her performance was like, have a young up and coming Filipino American artists perform with her. And I feel like. She also really highlights other people in the community in the winning song that she performed. Can you talk a little bit more about the tiny desk that she preformed and that actually ended up winning?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:21:25] \u003c/em>Yeah, so the song is called Bakunawa.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ruby Ibarra (rapping): \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:21:28] \u003c/em>I need a Samaria combined into one I’ve been blue like the ocean, we all grew When we moved one of you like our red Till I’m white, that’s the bluest Blue like the moon, like the eyes in the brew\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:21:38] \u003c/em>and it’s a reference to a dragon-like serpent in Philippine mythology who swallows the moon and is believed to cause eclipses, earthquakes, and you know other weather-related events. Basically like a disruptive force that typically people want to banish but she told KQED that she wanted to flip the story and embody the Bakunawa.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Singing: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:22:00] \u003c/em>Hoi hoi hoiii\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:22:08] \u003c/em>and that she interpreted the story as a metaphor for resistance and a battle cry against erasure. And the performance video is really cool. She had an all-Filipina band. She was pregnant with her first child while she made the song and while she recorded the video. And so she’s talked about how her daughter and being pregnant has also played a big part in it. And also the song is just great. It’s really funky. There’s a spoken word portion. There’s the rap portion. Like I said before, it’s in multiple languages. And it’s just a really, really beautiful, powerful video.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Singing: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:22:45] \u003c/em>If I don’t know me, what is my past? If I dont know me what is…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:22:58] \u003c/em>So winning Tiny Desk. Huge deal. So what happens now that she’s won the contest?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:23:03] \u003c/em>She submitted her video, she won, and the next step was to record an actual Tiny Desk at the Tiny Desks in D.C. And that just dropped on YouTube, so you can go watch that. And that performance is expanded. It’s three songs, so, you get to listen to a bit more of her catalog. And she’s also going to headline a 10-city Tiny Desktour this summer. You can buy tickets to that already at tinydeskcontest.npr.org. There’ll be a stop in the Bay Area and Petaluma. And yeah, I mean, like you were saying, it’s a huge, huge platform. So, you know, she’s already collected new fans. She’ll keep collecting more new fans and it’s really gonna be just a huge leveling up of her career.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ruby Ibarra (rapping): \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:23:47] \u003c/em>The sun touched my skin in hopes that I’d win Hands etched with sorrows deeper than the ocean’s depths History rooted in my people’s death This breath been enveloped, consumed, swallowed whole On nights where one moon seems fleeting so Even seven moons don’t illuminate like my soul My rage spoon-feeder, moon eater, truth keeper Naabay kahadlukan wala diri Bisaya ni ang dilahait kaayotan awa ni Gigaun ang bulan revolution in me Naan na ang bakunawa Rebirth the new moon\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:24:26] \u003c/em>It’s so exciting to see Ruby Ibarra up there on that tiny desk and representing the Bay Area and Bay Area Pin Eyes. Thanks for sharing this one, Jessica.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:24:37] \u003c/em>Yeah, absolutely.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:24:45] \u003c/em>Well, that’s it for the Bays monthly news roundup. Jessica Kariisa, producer, and Alan Montecillo, thank you both so much for joining me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>Los Alegres del Barranco will likely have to cancel its U.S. tour, including a performance in Morgan Hill, after the State Department revoked the popular Mexican band’s visas for “glorifying [a] drug kingpin.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The band — known for \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11904539/idolo-why-singer-chalino-sanchez-is-still-a-legend-30-years-after-his-unsolved-murder\">“narco ballads” or narcocorridos\u003c/a> — drew attention from both the U.S. and Mexican governments after projecting an image of a Sinaloa drug cartel leader onto a screen at a recent concert in Mexico.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The group, from the Mexican state of Sinaloa, was scheduled to perform at the rodeo grounds of Rancho Grande de Morgan Hill on April 27. The concert promoter has not officially confirmed the cancellation and did not respond to KQED’s request for comment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m a firm believer in freedom of expression, but that doesn’t mean that expression should be free of consequences,” U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Christopher Landau wrote in a \u003ca href=\"https://x.com/DeputySecState/status/1907273733573660813\">post on X\u003c/a>. “In the Trump Administration, we take seriously our responsibility over foreigners’ access to our country. The last thing we need is a welcome mat for people who extol criminals and terrorists.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During its March 29 show in Guadalajara, the band projected the image of Nemesio “El Mencho” Oseguera Ramos of the Jalisco New Generation Cartel, one of the most feared transnational drug trafficking groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The concert took place just weeks after the \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/03/14/nx-s1-5328058/mexico-disappeared-jalisco-cartel\">remains of dozens of missing people\u003c/a> were found at a remote ranch in the state of Jalisco, an incident that was linked to the cartel.[aside postID=news_12034651 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/005_KQEDARTS_ALAMEDA_LADONA_07202021-KQED.jpg']\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The CJNG is one of eight criminal groups the Trump administration \u003ca href=\"https://www.state.gov/designation-of-international-cartels/\">recently declared\u003c/a> “foreign terrorist organizations” as part of its bid to “ensure the total elimination” of these groups in the U.S.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was a lack of taste to say the least,” said Juan Carlos Ramirez Pimienta, a professor of border studies at San Diego State University, noting that Mexican leaders, including its president, were quick to publicly condemn the band.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a \u003ca href=\"https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=1193322902157094&set=a.579115136911210\">statement\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/stories/losalegresdelbarranco1/3602310590094574725/\">video\u003c/a> posted in Spanish on social media several days later, the group apologized, claiming “it was never our intention to create controversy, much less cause offense.” The band promised to “take stricter measures” in choosing their visual and narrative content during performances.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, the group, which performs regional Mexican music, also emphasized that its corridos — or ballads — are firmly rooted in Mexican culture and folklore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We reaffirm that our music is inspired by telling popular stories within Mexican music,” the group wrote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12036153\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12036153\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/231013_PesoPluma_EG-59.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/231013_PesoPluma_EG-59.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/231013_PesoPluma_EG-59-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/231013_PesoPluma_EG-59-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/231013_PesoPluma_EG-59-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/231013_PesoPluma_EG-59-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Peso Pluma performs at the SAP Center on Friday, Oct. 13, 2023. \u003ccite>(Estefany Gonzalez for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The backlash against the band may have an impact on other Mexican performers in the U.S. Junior H, a Mexican singer known for his corridos tumbados — a blend of traditional music with trap and hip-hop elements — avoided performing explicit corridos during his highly anticipated Coachella set last weekend, a year after \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13936406/peso-pluma-photos-fans-san-jose\">Peso Pluma\u003c/a> delivered multiple narcocorridos at the same festival.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ramirez Pimienta said he’s not surprised that the U.S. government revoked the band’s work and tourism visas after such a controversial incident. However, he said there also seems to be another, more concerning element at play, given the Trump administration’s broader efforts to crack down on immigration and distance itself from neighboring countries.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I do perceive another element — a political, ideological attack on Mexican-ness, Mexican identity,” he said. “The Mexican population perceives itself as being under siege — under attack — and I think they do so correctly, especially in these times. So that’s part of that whole scenario.”[aside postID=news_11904539 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/02/Chalino-master.jpg']\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although corridos and the bands that perform them have become a major industry in Mexico and are often associated with stories about drug cartels, the genre has humble origins, presenting “counternarratives” from common people struggling to survive, said Ramirez Pimienta.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“At least at the beginning, before it was a huge industry, they were tales from the underdog in order to make sense of what is happening in their lives,” he said, noting the corridos about migrants mistreated by Texas Rangers in the early 1900s. “I like to emphasize that corridos as a musical genre do not have a set ideology. Intrinsically, they are not one thing.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Los Alegres del Barranco’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yz_RsgiiN4\">song celebrating El Mencho\u003c/a> is not the only narcocorrido in its repertoire. Another song, “\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ1cdzkHeP8\">El 701\u003c/a>,” tells the story of Joaquín “El Chapo” Guzmán, the former leader of the Sinaloa cartel, who rose from humble beginnings to reach Forbes’ list of the world’s richest people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Ramirez Pimienta notes that, unlike some other bands in the same genre that explicitly perform corridos — often of the narco variety — Los Alegres del Barranco has a broader repertoire.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Some other performers, if they were prohibited from singing corridos, they would have no act,” he said. “These guys also write love songs and rhythmic songs. So they would be able to give a concert without necessarily having to sing corridos.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Los Alegres del Barranco will likely have to cancel its U.S. tour, including a performance in Morgan Hill, after the State Department revoked the popular Mexican band’s visas for “glorifying [a] drug kingpin.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The band — known for \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11904539/idolo-why-singer-chalino-sanchez-is-still-a-legend-30-years-after-his-unsolved-murder\">“narco ballads” or narcocorridos\u003c/a> — drew attention from both the U.S. and Mexican governments after projecting an image of a Sinaloa drug cartel leader onto a screen at a recent concert in Mexico.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The group, from the Mexican state of Sinaloa, was scheduled to perform at the rodeo grounds of Rancho Grande de Morgan Hill on April 27. The concert promoter has not officially confirmed the cancellation and did not respond to KQED’s request for comment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m a firm believer in freedom of expression, but that doesn’t mean that expression should be free of consequences,” U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Christopher Landau wrote in a \u003ca href=\"https://x.com/DeputySecState/status/1907273733573660813\">post on X\u003c/a>. “In the Trump Administration, we take seriously our responsibility over foreigners’ access to our country. The last thing we need is a welcome mat for people who extol criminals and terrorists.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During its March 29 show in Guadalajara, the band projected the image of Nemesio “El Mencho” Oseguera Ramos of the Jalisco New Generation Cartel, one of the most feared transnational drug trafficking groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The concert took place just weeks after the \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/03/14/nx-s1-5328058/mexico-disappeared-jalisco-cartel\">remains of dozens of missing people\u003c/a> were found at a remote ranch in the state of Jalisco, an incident that was linked to the cartel.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The CJNG is one of eight criminal groups the Trump administration \u003ca href=\"https://www.state.gov/designation-of-international-cartels/\">recently declared\u003c/a> “foreign terrorist organizations” as part of its bid to “ensure the total elimination” of these groups in the U.S.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was a lack of taste to say the least,” said Juan Carlos Ramirez Pimienta, a professor of border studies at San Diego State University, noting that Mexican leaders, including its president, were quick to publicly condemn the band.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a \u003ca href=\"https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=1193322902157094&set=a.579115136911210\">statement\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/stories/losalegresdelbarranco1/3602310590094574725/\">video\u003c/a> posted in Spanish on social media several days later, the group apologized, claiming “it was never our intention to create controversy, much less cause offense.” The band promised to “take stricter measures” in choosing their visual and narrative content during performances.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, the group, which performs regional Mexican music, also emphasized that its corridos — or ballads — are firmly rooted in Mexican culture and folklore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We reaffirm that our music is inspired by telling popular stories within Mexican music,” the group wrote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12036153\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12036153\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/231013_PesoPluma_EG-59.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/231013_PesoPluma_EG-59.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/231013_PesoPluma_EG-59-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/231013_PesoPluma_EG-59-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/231013_PesoPluma_EG-59-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/231013_PesoPluma_EG-59-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Peso Pluma performs at the SAP Center on Friday, Oct. 13, 2023. \u003ccite>(Estefany Gonzalez for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The backlash against the band may have an impact on other Mexican performers in the U.S. Junior H, a Mexican singer known for his corridos tumbados — a blend of traditional music with trap and hip-hop elements — avoided performing explicit corridos during his highly anticipated Coachella set last weekend, a year after \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13936406/peso-pluma-photos-fans-san-jose\">Peso Pluma\u003c/a> delivered multiple narcocorridos at the same festival.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ramirez Pimienta said he’s not surprised that the U.S. government revoked the band’s work and tourism visas after such a controversial incident. However, he said there also seems to be another, more concerning element at play, given the Trump administration’s broader efforts to crack down on immigration and distance itself from neighboring countries.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I do perceive another element — a political, ideological attack on Mexican-ness, Mexican identity,” he said. “The Mexican population perceives itself as being under siege — under attack — and I think they do so correctly, especially in these times. So that’s part of that whole scenario.”\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although corridos and the bands that perform them have become a major industry in Mexico and are often associated with stories about drug cartels, the genre has humble origins, presenting “counternarratives” from common people struggling to survive, said Ramirez Pimienta.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“At least at the beginning, before it was a huge industry, they were tales from the underdog in order to make sense of what is happening in their lives,” he said, noting the corridos about migrants mistreated by Texas Rangers in the early 1900s. “I like to emphasize that corridos as a musical genre do not have a set ideology. Intrinsically, they are not one thing.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Los Alegres del Barranco’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yz_RsgiiN4\">song celebrating El Mencho\u003c/a> is not the only narcocorrido in its repertoire. Another song, “\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ1cdzkHeP8\">El 701\u003c/a>,” tells the story of Joaquín “El Chapo” Guzmán, the former leader of the Sinaloa cartel, who rose from humble beginnings to reach Forbes’ list of the world’s richest people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Ramirez Pimienta notes that, unlike some other bands in the same genre that explicitly perform corridos — often of the narco variety — Los Alegres del Barranco has a broader repertoire.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Some other performers, if they were prohibited from singing corridos, they would have no act,” he said. “These guys also write love songs and rhythmic songs. So they would be able to give a concert without necessarily having to sing corridos.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cb>Here are the morning’s top stories on Friday, March 7, 2025…\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a common belief that music soothes the soul. But some researchers and healthcare companies say it can be \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://laist.com/news/health/music-as-medicine-to-treat-anxiety-other-mental-health-issues\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">used to heal the mind\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, and maybe the body.\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lawmakers should hit the brakes on one of Governor Gavin Newsom’s signature programs for cleaning up homeless encampments. That’s according to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12030057/state-report-throws-shade-on-one-of-newsoms-key-encampment-clearing-policies\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">a report\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> out this week from the Legislative Analyst’s Office. \u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Governor Gavin Newsom surprised many people this week when he \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/politics/2025/03/newsom-transgender-athletes/\">chose to speak out\u003c/a> against transgender women and girls in sports on his new podcast called “This is Gavin Newsom.”\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003ch2 class=\"ArticlePage-headline\">\u003ca href=\"https://laist.com/news/health/music-as-medicine-to-treat-anxiety-other-mental-health-issues\">\u003cstrong>Could Doctors Prescribe Music To Treat Mental Health Issues?\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>It’s a common belief that music soothes the soul. But some researchers and healthcare companies say it can be used to heal the mind — and maybe the body.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Several popular apps claim to help relieve anxiety through music, meditations and mindfulness. A company in Los Angeles takes that idea further: It’s seeking approval from the Food and Drug Administration to prescribe music treatments for specific mental health conditions, such as generalized anxiety disorder.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A recent study out of UC Irvine found that listening mindfully to improvisational jazz was linked to a decrease in pain and anxiety for some patients. Sean Young, lead author of the study, told LAist that just as doctors prescribe opioids for chronic pain, “you could imagine that prescribing something like jazz or certain sounds might be in the future of what we can do in helping patients with pain or other kinds of clinical, mental, behavioral health issues.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca class=\"Link\" href=\"https://sona.care/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-cms-ai=\"0\">Sona Labs\u003c/a>, an L.A.-based company that bills itself as “music as medicine,” is seeking FDA approval for its music treatment so that mental health professionals can prescribe them for conditions like generalized anxiety disorder. Sona’s founder, Neal Sarin, said music compositions created with the company’s proprietary technique have been shown in tests to increase alpha waves in listeners’ brains.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 class=\"routes-Site-routes-Post-Title-__Title__title\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12030057/state-report-throws-shade-on-one-of-newsoms-key-encampment-clearing-policies\">\u003cstrong>Report: California Should Pause Funding For One Of Newsom’s Key Programs To Clear Encampments\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Lawmakers should hit the brakes on one of Gov. Gavin Newsom’s signature programs for cleaning up homeless encampments, \u003ca href=\"https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/5007\">according to a report\u003c/a> out Wednesday from the Legislative Analyst’s Office (LAO).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The LAO found lawmakers lack the basic information needed to assess how well the effort — called Encampment Resolution Funding Program — is working and should hold off on further investment until it’s given “compelling evidence that program goals are being met.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom and legislators \u003ca href=\"https://www.gov.ca.gov/2021/10/29/california-launches-encampment-resolution-grant-program/\">rolled out the competitive grant in 2021\u003c/a> to help local governments address “specific, persistent encampments” with the aim of moving people into permanent housing or temporary shelter until long-term housing becomes available. The state invested $900 million in the program since its launch, according to the report.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 class=\"entry-title \">\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/politics/2025/03/newsom-transgender-athletes/\">\u003cstrong>Gavin Newsom Shocks LGBTQ Allies With Criticism Of Transgender Athletes\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Gov. Gavin Newsom called it “deeply unfair” for transgender athletes to participate in girls’ sports this week — a notable change in his position that thrust the Democratic governor into the center of a national maelstrom. It was unclear whether he will act on his new position as Republicans urged him to follow conservative states in banning transgender athletes from girls’ sports.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The comments came on the first episode of Newsom’s new podcast, “This Is Gavin Newsom,” on which the governor has said \u003ca href=\"https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/26/gavin-newsom-podcast-maga-00206153\">he plans to interview political figures\u003c/a> he disagrees with about the major issues of the day. In a chummy conversation with Charlie Kirk, the Donald Trump-aligned conservative activist, Newsom repeatedly conceded to criticisms of a transgender high school track athlete who \u003ca href=\"https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-14458419/Trans-high-school-track-star-sparks-backlash-winning-triple-jump-astonishing-distance.html\">recently won a regional meet\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Allies were angered by Newsom’s comments, which break with the mainstream Democratic Party position supporting transgender athletes, with some arguing that he was abandoning transgender youth at the same time they face a wave of laws nationwide rolling back their rights.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“In this moment of crisis, they need leaders who will unequivocally fight for them,” Tony Hoang, executive director of Equality California, the state’s leading LGBTQ+ advocacy group, said in a \u003ca href=\"https://www.eqca.org/newsom-trans-remarks/\">lengthy statement\u003c/a>. “Instead of standing strong, the Governor has added to the heartbreak and fear caused by the relentless barrage of hate from the Trump Administration.”\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cb>Here are the morning’s top stories on Friday, March 7, 2025…\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a common belief that music soothes the soul. But some researchers and healthcare companies say it can be \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://laist.com/news/health/music-as-medicine-to-treat-anxiety-other-mental-health-issues\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">used to heal the mind\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, and maybe the body.\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lawmakers should hit the brakes on one of Governor Gavin Newsom’s signature programs for cleaning up homeless encampments. That’s according to \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12030057/state-report-throws-shade-on-one-of-newsoms-key-encampment-clearing-policies\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">a report\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> out this week from the Legislative Analyst’s Office. \u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Governor Gavin Newsom surprised many people this week when he \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/politics/2025/03/newsom-transgender-athletes/\">chose to speak out\u003c/a> against transgender women and girls in sports on his new podcast called “This is Gavin Newsom.”\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003ch2 class=\"ArticlePage-headline\">\u003ca href=\"https://laist.com/news/health/music-as-medicine-to-treat-anxiety-other-mental-health-issues\">\u003cstrong>Could Doctors Prescribe Music To Treat Mental Health Issues?\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>It’s a common belief that music soothes the soul. But some researchers and healthcare companies say it can be used to heal the mind — and maybe the body.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Several popular apps claim to help relieve anxiety through music, meditations and mindfulness. A company in Los Angeles takes that idea further: It’s seeking approval from the Food and Drug Administration to prescribe music treatments for specific mental health conditions, such as generalized anxiety disorder.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A recent study out of UC Irvine found that listening mindfully to improvisational jazz was linked to a decrease in pain and anxiety for some patients. Sean Young, lead author of the study, told LAist that just as doctors prescribe opioids for chronic pain, “you could imagine that prescribing something like jazz or certain sounds might be in the future of what we can do in helping patients with pain or other kinds of clinical, mental, behavioral health issues.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca class=\"Link\" href=\"https://sona.care/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-cms-ai=\"0\">Sona Labs\u003c/a>, an L.A.-based company that bills itself as “music as medicine,” is seeking FDA approval for its music treatment so that mental health professionals can prescribe them for conditions like generalized anxiety disorder. Sona’s founder, Neal Sarin, said music compositions created with the company’s proprietary technique have been shown in tests to increase alpha waves in listeners’ brains.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 class=\"routes-Site-routes-Post-Title-__Title__title\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12030057/state-report-throws-shade-on-one-of-newsoms-key-encampment-clearing-policies\">\u003cstrong>Report: California Should Pause Funding For One Of Newsom’s Key Programs To Clear Encampments\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Lawmakers should hit the brakes on one of Gov. Gavin Newsom’s signature programs for cleaning up homeless encampments, \u003ca href=\"https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/5007\">according to a report\u003c/a> out Wednesday from the Legislative Analyst’s Office (LAO).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The LAO found lawmakers lack the basic information needed to assess how well the effort — called Encampment Resolution Funding Program — is working and should hold off on further investment until it’s given “compelling evidence that program goals are being met.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom and legislators \u003ca href=\"https://www.gov.ca.gov/2021/10/29/california-launches-encampment-resolution-grant-program/\">rolled out the competitive grant in 2021\u003c/a> to help local governments address “specific, persistent encampments” with the aim of moving people into permanent housing or temporary shelter until long-term housing becomes available. The state invested $900 million in the program since its launch, according to the report.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 class=\"entry-title \">\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/politics/2025/03/newsom-transgender-athletes/\">\u003cstrong>Gavin Newsom Shocks LGBTQ Allies With Criticism Of Transgender Athletes\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Gov. Gavin Newsom called it “deeply unfair” for transgender athletes to participate in girls’ sports this week — a notable change in his position that thrust the Democratic governor into the center of a national maelstrom. It was unclear whether he will act on his new position as Republicans urged him to follow conservative states in banning transgender athletes from girls’ sports.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The comments came on the first episode of Newsom’s new podcast, “This Is Gavin Newsom,” on which the governor has said \u003ca href=\"https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/26/gavin-newsom-podcast-maga-00206153\">he plans to interview political figures\u003c/a> he disagrees with about the major issues of the day. In a chummy conversation with Charlie Kirk, the Donald Trump-aligned conservative activist, Newsom repeatedly conceded to criticisms of a transgender high school track athlete who \u003ca href=\"https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-14458419/Trans-high-school-track-star-sparks-backlash-winning-triple-jump-astonishing-distance.html\">recently won a regional meet\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Allies were angered by Newsom’s comments, which break with the mainstream Democratic Party position supporting transgender athletes, with some arguing that he was abandoning transgender youth at the same time they face a wave of laws nationwide rolling back their rights.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“In this moment of crisis, they need leaders who will unequivocally fight for them,” Tony Hoang, executive director of Equality California, the state’s leading LGBTQ+ advocacy group, said in a \u003ca href=\"https://www.eqca.org/newsom-trans-remarks/\">lengthy statement\u003c/a>. “Instead of standing strong, the Governor has added to the heartbreak and fear caused by the relentless barrage of hate from the Trump Administration.”\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "san-diegos-al-akhbar-fuses-worlds-and-sounds-with-middle-east-jazz",
"title": "San Diego's 'Al Akhbar' Fuses Cultures and Sounds With Middle Eastern Jazz",
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"content": "\u003cp>On an October night, a crowd packed tightly in San Diego’s Lightbulb Coffee murmured with excitement as they waited for a concert to begin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was only a few days before \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/israel-hamas-war\">the first anniversary of the Israel-Hamas war\u003c/a> and the atmosphere was tense.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We have heavy, heavy hearts,” Sarab Aziz, a Syrian concert attendee, told KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A saxophone let out a melancholic sound, accompanied by an agitated hum of a cymbal. Suddenly, the playful melodies of the \u003cem>nye\u003c/em> — an Arabic reed flute — joined in. The atmosphere in the coffee shop transformed from heaviness to joy as the crowd recognized “Khosara,” a popular Egyptian song made even more famous when Jay-Z sampled it in his 2000 hit “Big Pimpin’.” But this wasn’t the version of the song most may be familiar with or traditional Arabic music at all: it was a jazz cover.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The band on stage was Al Akhbar, which means “the news” in Arabic. The San Diego-based group weaves together the instrumentation and rhythms of the Middle East with Western jazz, bringing audiences from diverse backgrounds together with their unique sound.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12030085\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/tamir-scaled-e1741288667392.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12030085\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/tamir-scaled-e1741288667392.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Keyboardist Tamir Persekian performs at SWANACON, an event at UC Riverside on Jan. 18, 2025. \u003ccite>( Daniel Nasr Photography)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The origin of the band follows multiple, interweaving stories. Keyboardist Tamir Persekian’s story begins across the ocean in East Jerusalem, where he was raised. The earliest sounds Persekian remembers are from family mornings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You’d hear the spoon just stirring in the pot,” he said, “My parents making coffee with the radio on.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While Persekian grew up with all kinds of music, his first love was hip-hop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“All the hip-hop that was coming out of Palestine was like a form of protest,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As a teenager, he loved listening to Palestinian rappers such as Shadia Mansour and DAM, as well as Black American musicians like Kendrick Lamar and J Dilla. Their music spoke to Persekian’s experiences of seeing family members harassed by Israeli soldiers in the streets and at military checkpoints.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=news_12021919 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/20250115_JapaneseAmericanActivism_GC-47-1020x680.jpg']\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It got to the point where it’s like, ‘All right guys, can we listen to some hip-hop that’s not about occupation?’” Persekian said. “But it’s hard, ‘cause that’s what you live, breathe, eat, drink. Every single day.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After graduating from high school, Persekian came to the United States to study music at Mesa College in San Diego. There, he met drummer Naji Chaaban, who was also studying jazz. The two connected immediately.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Music is not something I do just for fun,” said Chaaban. “It’s my language. It’s how I express myself on a very deep level.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chaaban has been playing music since he was a toddler. When his mother couldn’t find him inside the house one day, she saw kitchen cabinets emptied and, hearing noise, walked to their backyard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She found me just banging on a bunch of pots,” he said. “I had them set up in a tuned way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although he was born in the United States, Chaaban grew up visiting relatives in Aleppo, Syria, during summers. He can still recall the smell of the jasmine growing on their apartment entrance. However, the trips stopped abruptly after the Syrian Civil War broke out in 2011. He was around 10.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Not being able to go there just like every other Syrian is definitely a sense feeling lost,” Chaaban said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This loss prompted an identity crisis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12030086\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/band-photo-scaled-e1741288702582.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12030086\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/band-photo-scaled-e1741288702582.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1584\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Al Akhbar performed at UC Riverside’s SWANACON on Jan. 18, 2025. \u003ccite>(Daniel Nasr Photography)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“I felt like I was a bit too Arab for the Americans and then not Arab enough for the Arabs,” he said. “It kind of just threw me off for a while.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During the COVID-19 pandemic, Chaaban researched Arabic music. He dug deep into \u003ca href=\"https://global.oup.com/academic/product/inside-arabic-music-9780190658366\">\u003cem>Inside Arabic Music\u003c/em>\u003c/a>, a book that breaks down maqams, or Arabic melodies and their theories. As he read, Chaaban realized there were overlaps between jazz and Arabic music, like the emphasis on rhythm and the political circumstances that gave rise to both genres.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Revolution music is a good way to describe Black American music,” he said. “Resistance music is a great way to describe Middle Eastern music.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Persekian saw these links too, and soon, the two began experimenting, combining the music they were raised with and the music they adopted and performing jazz-inspired covers of Arabic music.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Soon after, Persekian went to a local Arab classical music concert put on by an organization called Mazikaa Enterprises, led by Layan Amkieh.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That scarcity, that feeling of always carrying an armor,” Amkieh began, “led to the need for a space where we could take off that armor. A space that we could look in the mirror, be fully us.”[aside postID=news_12023476 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/240403-DrSubeh-005-BL-1020x680.jpg']Amkieh is also Syrian, and she grew up between the United States and the Middle East. She said she felt like she had to buffer her national, cultural and religious identity from others. So, in 2023, she started Mazikaa Enterprises with her sister, Nour Amikeh, in order to curate spaces where Southwest Asian and North African cultures, known as SWANA, could be celebrated in diaspora communities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Amkieh and Persekian spoke, he broached the idea of fusion music with her. She loved it and became the band’s manager to make it happen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Persekian enlisted additional friends, including saxophone player Richard Albert IV, who goes by Riva, and bassist Hank Lee Nelson.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to Albert, who grew up in Texas with Mexican and Puerto Rican parents, playing Arabic music has deepened his connection to his Latin American roots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Those percussive elements and some of the harmonic elements [in Latin music] belong to Arabic culture that … through generations and generations are passed down,” he said. “So learning my own culture through Arabic culture…it’s such a crazy journey as well.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Originally from the Bay Area, Nelson’s path to Al Akhbar was more dramatic. One night, he was out with Albert and other friends when Persekian called him in a panic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He’s like, ‘Yo, the bassist dropped out. Can you pull up and play?’” Nelson recalled. He was floored.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You want me to play bass at your gig that starts in like 15 minutes?” he responded.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12030108\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1707px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/Mazikaa-salar-149-2-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12030108\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/Mazikaa-salar-149-2-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1707\" height=\"2560\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/Mazikaa-salar-149-2-scaled.jpg 1707w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/Mazikaa-salar-149-2-800x1200.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/Mazikaa-salar-149-2-1020x1530.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/Mazikaa-salar-149-2-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/Mazikaa-salar-149-2-1024x1536.jpg 1024w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/Mazikaa-salar-149-2-1365x2048.jpg 1365w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/Mazikaa-salar-149-2-1920x2880.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1707px) 100vw, 1707px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Persekian, a keyboardist with roots in East Jerusalem, founded Al Akhbar with drummer Naji Chaaban in San Diego. \u003ccite>(Mazikaa by Salar)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Nelson had only practiced the music once. When the concert started, he was shaking as he strummed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t know how or why, but [Nelson] killed it,” Persekian recalled of that night.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The last member to join the band was vocalist and Arab instrumentalist Salem Khattar. Growing up, Khattar’s Lebanese parents would take him to their home country in the summers. Khattar said he felt the musical spark when his grandparents took him to a music festival, where he saw a band play Arabic music live for the first time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was obsessed with it, and I wanted to learn so bad,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>His family bought him his first \u003cem>nye\u003c/em> soon after.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Years later, while attending law school, Khattar threw himself into practicing the \u003cem>oud\u003c/em>, a lute. Like Persekian, Khattar met Amkieh, the band’s manager, at a concert, exchanging Instagram handles. Then, he joined one of their rehearsals.[aside postID=news_11997602 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/10/20240623_GAZAEVACUATION_GC-9-KQED.jpg']“When I met Naji, I was like, ‘I’ll break your legs if you don’t let me into this group,” Khattar said as he laughed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San Diego contains many diasporic communities, as about a quarter of its population was born outside the country, \u003ca href=\"https://datausa.io/profile/geo/san-diego-ca\">according to 2022 census data\u003c/a>. San Diego County has historically \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/justice/2017/07/san-diego-welcomes-refugees-california-county/\">welcomed\u003c/a> more refugees than others in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The band also attracts a multicultural audience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Megan Kirie, who identifies as Boricua, or Puerto Rican, said the music that Al Akhbar played at Lightbulb Coffee resonated with her. It reminded her of the tunes her parents would dance to back home in New York and brought back memories of her time volunteering in the occupied West Bank.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Music is our language. It’s what connects us and brings us together,” she said, referring to the Global South. “It’s how we survive as a people.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kirie said the Israel-Hamas war has taken an emotional toll on her. It reminded her of her Palestinian friends. She stifled a sob as she explained that the music evoked thoughts of both ancestors and current events.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s never just the people in the room,” Kirie said. “It’s always who’s not with us in the room as well.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The layered emotions aren’t unfamiliar to Al Akhbar, as war and upheaval in the Middle East have impacted band members. Khattar has, at times, felt guilty about performing, worried about his relatives in Lebanon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12030087\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/Mazikaa-audience-2-scaled-e1741288850383.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12030087\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/Mazikaa-audience-2-scaled-e1741288850383.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A crowd danced at a Mazikaa event in San Diego on Dec. 15, 2024. Khattar told KQED that joy was a form of resistance. \u003ccite>(Mazikaa by Salar)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“I’m going to play a party, and they’re worried about tomorrow, you know?” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Persekian also missed his family in East Jerusalem and is unsure when he can visit them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It just breaks my heart because it just feels like there’s less chances of us returning or being able to be together,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Khattar’s family abroad has offered support, commenting on his Instagram posts about the band.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“My relatives back home personally have reached out to me on my Stories and said, ‘Good for you,’” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For him and other band members, performing has become a means of resistance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Not only is war like an attack on infrastructure or on humans, but it’s also a psychological thing,” Khattar said. “Like, you shouldn’t be happy, and they don’t want you to be happy. So being joyful and having a good time is almost like a rebellion in itself.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Persekian agrees, viewing the band’s music as a way to keep their culture alive while it’s under siege. Gaza’s health ministry has reported that Israel’s military campaign has killed more than \u003ca href=\"https://www.ochaopt.org/content/reported-impact-snapshot-gaza-strip-4-march-2025\">48,000 Palestinians\u003c/a>, and the war has leveled the architecture of cultural life as well. \u003ca href=\"https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/14/a-cultural-genocide-which-of-gazas-heritage-sites-have-been-destroyed\">Mosques\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/14/a-cultural-genocide-which-of-gazas-heritage-sites-have-been-destroyed\">churches\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.thenation.com/article/world/gaza-students-future/\">universities\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/arts-center-in-gaza-destroyed-180984142/\">art galleries\u003c/a> have been destroyed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When your culture is being stolen, you gotta be louder than ever,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>[\u003cstrong>March 9:\u003c/strong> A previous version of this story misspelled the names of Layan Amkieh, Salem Khattar, Naji Chaaban, Nour Amikeh and Mazikaa Enterprises. The story has been updated.]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>On an October night, a crowd packed tightly in San Diego’s Lightbulb Coffee murmured with excitement as they waited for a concert to begin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was only a few days before \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/israel-hamas-war\">the first anniversary of the Israel-Hamas war\u003c/a> and the atmosphere was tense.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We have heavy, heavy hearts,” Sarab Aziz, a Syrian concert attendee, told KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A saxophone let out a melancholic sound, accompanied by an agitated hum of a cymbal. Suddenly, the playful melodies of the \u003cem>nye\u003c/em> — an Arabic reed flute — joined in. The atmosphere in the coffee shop transformed from heaviness to joy as the crowd recognized “Khosara,” a popular Egyptian song made even more famous when Jay-Z sampled it in his 2000 hit “Big Pimpin’.” But this wasn’t the version of the song most may be familiar with or traditional Arabic music at all: it was a jazz cover.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The band on stage was Al Akhbar, which means “the news” in Arabic. The San Diego-based group weaves together the instrumentation and rhythms of the Middle East with Western jazz, bringing audiences from diverse backgrounds together with their unique sound.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12030085\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/tamir-scaled-e1741288667392.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12030085\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/tamir-scaled-e1741288667392.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Keyboardist Tamir Persekian performs at SWANACON, an event at UC Riverside on Jan. 18, 2025. \u003ccite>( Daniel Nasr Photography)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The origin of the band follows multiple, interweaving stories. Keyboardist Tamir Persekian’s story begins across the ocean in East Jerusalem, where he was raised. The earliest sounds Persekian remembers are from family mornings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You’d hear the spoon just stirring in the pot,” he said, “My parents making coffee with the radio on.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While Persekian grew up with all kinds of music, his first love was hip-hop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“All the hip-hop that was coming out of Palestine was like a form of protest,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As a teenager, he loved listening to Palestinian rappers such as Shadia Mansour and DAM, as well as Black American musicians like Kendrick Lamar and J Dilla. Their music spoke to Persekian’s experiences of seeing family members harassed by Israeli soldiers in the streets and at military checkpoints.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It got to the point where it’s like, ‘All right guys, can we listen to some hip-hop that’s not about occupation?’” Persekian said. “But it’s hard, ‘cause that’s what you live, breathe, eat, drink. Every single day.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After graduating from high school, Persekian came to the United States to study music at Mesa College in San Diego. There, he met drummer Naji Chaaban, who was also studying jazz. The two connected immediately.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Music is not something I do just for fun,” said Chaaban. “It’s my language. It’s how I express myself on a very deep level.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chaaban has been playing music since he was a toddler. When his mother couldn’t find him inside the house one day, she saw kitchen cabinets emptied and, hearing noise, walked to their backyard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She found me just banging on a bunch of pots,” he said. “I had them set up in a tuned way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although he was born in the United States, Chaaban grew up visiting relatives in Aleppo, Syria, during summers. He can still recall the smell of the jasmine growing on their apartment entrance. However, the trips stopped abruptly after the Syrian Civil War broke out in 2011. He was around 10.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Not being able to go there just like every other Syrian is definitely a sense feeling lost,” Chaaban said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This loss prompted an identity crisis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12030086\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/band-photo-scaled-e1741288702582.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12030086\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/band-photo-scaled-e1741288702582.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1584\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Al Akhbar performed at UC Riverside’s SWANACON on Jan. 18, 2025. \u003ccite>(Daniel Nasr Photography)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“I felt like I was a bit too Arab for the Americans and then not Arab enough for the Arabs,” he said. “It kind of just threw me off for a while.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During the COVID-19 pandemic, Chaaban researched Arabic music. He dug deep into \u003ca href=\"https://global.oup.com/academic/product/inside-arabic-music-9780190658366\">\u003cem>Inside Arabic Music\u003c/em>\u003c/a>, a book that breaks down maqams, or Arabic melodies and their theories. As he read, Chaaban realized there were overlaps between jazz and Arabic music, like the emphasis on rhythm and the political circumstances that gave rise to both genres.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Revolution music is a good way to describe Black American music,” he said. “Resistance music is a great way to describe Middle Eastern music.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Persekian saw these links too, and soon, the two began experimenting, combining the music they were raised with and the music they adopted and performing jazz-inspired covers of Arabic music.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Soon after, Persekian went to a local Arab classical music concert put on by an organization called Mazikaa Enterprises, led by Layan Amkieh.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That scarcity, that feeling of always carrying an armor,” Amkieh began, “led to the need for a space where we could take off that armor. A space that we could look in the mirror, be fully us.”\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Amkieh is also Syrian, and she grew up between the United States and the Middle East. She said she felt like she had to buffer her national, cultural and religious identity from others. So, in 2023, she started Mazikaa Enterprises with her sister, Nour Amikeh, in order to curate spaces where Southwest Asian and North African cultures, known as SWANA, could be celebrated in diaspora communities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Amkieh and Persekian spoke, he broached the idea of fusion music with her. She loved it and became the band’s manager to make it happen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Persekian enlisted additional friends, including saxophone player Richard Albert IV, who goes by Riva, and bassist Hank Lee Nelson.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to Albert, who grew up in Texas with Mexican and Puerto Rican parents, playing Arabic music has deepened his connection to his Latin American roots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Those percussive elements and some of the harmonic elements [in Latin music] belong to Arabic culture that … through generations and generations are passed down,” he said. “So learning my own culture through Arabic culture…it’s such a crazy journey as well.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Originally from the Bay Area, Nelson’s path to Al Akhbar was more dramatic. One night, he was out with Albert and other friends when Persekian called him in a panic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He’s like, ‘Yo, the bassist dropped out. Can you pull up and play?’” Nelson recalled. He was floored.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You want me to play bass at your gig that starts in like 15 minutes?” he responded.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12030108\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1707px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/Mazikaa-salar-149-2-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12030108\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/Mazikaa-salar-149-2-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1707\" height=\"2560\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/Mazikaa-salar-149-2-scaled.jpg 1707w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/Mazikaa-salar-149-2-800x1200.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/Mazikaa-salar-149-2-1020x1530.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/Mazikaa-salar-149-2-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/Mazikaa-salar-149-2-1024x1536.jpg 1024w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/Mazikaa-salar-149-2-1365x2048.jpg 1365w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/Mazikaa-salar-149-2-1920x2880.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1707px) 100vw, 1707px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Persekian, a keyboardist with roots in East Jerusalem, founded Al Akhbar with drummer Naji Chaaban in San Diego. \u003ccite>(Mazikaa by Salar)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Nelson had only practiced the music once. When the concert started, he was shaking as he strummed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t know how or why, but [Nelson] killed it,” Persekian recalled of that night.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The last member to join the band was vocalist and Arab instrumentalist Salem Khattar. Growing up, Khattar’s Lebanese parents would take him to their home country in the summers. Khattar said he felt the musical spark when his grandparents took him to a music festival, where he saw a band play Arabic music live for the first time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was obsessed with it, and I wanted to learn so bad,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>His family bought him his first \u003cem>nye\u003c/em> soon after.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Years later, while attending law school, Khattar threw himself into practicing the \u003cem>oud\u003c/em>, a lute. Like Persekian, Khattar met Amkieh, the band’s manager, at a concert, exchanging Instagram handles. Then, he joined one of their rehearsals.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“When I met Naji, I was like, ‘I’ll break your legs if you don’t let me into this group,” Khattar said as he laughed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San Diego contains many diasporic communities, as about a quarter of its population was born outside the country, \u003ca href=\"https://datausa.io/profile/geo/san-diego-ca\">according to 2022 census data\u003c/a>. San Diego County has historically \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/justice/2017/07/san-diego-welcomes-refugees-california-county/\">welcomed\u003c/a> more refugees than others in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The band also attracts a multicultural audience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Megan Kirie, who identifies as Boricua, or Puerto Rican, said the music that Al Akhbar played at Lightbulb Coffee resonated with her. It reminded her of the tunes her parents would dance to back home in New York and brought back memories of her time volunteering in the occupied West Bank.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Music is our language. It’s what connects us and brings us together,” she said, referring to the Global South. “It’s how we survive as a people.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kirie said the Israel-Hamas war has taken an emotional toll on her. It reminded her of her Palestinian friends. She stifled a sob as she explained that the music evoked thoughts of both ancestors and current events.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s never just the people in the room,” Kirie said. “It’s always who’s not with us in the room as well.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The layered emotions aren’t unfamiliar to Al Akhbar, as war and upheaval in the Middle East have impacted band members. Khattar has, at times, felt guilty about performing, worried about his relatives in Lebanon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12030087\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/Mazikaa-audience-2-scaled-e1741288850383.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12030087\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/Mazikaa-audience-2-scaled-e1741288850383.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A crowd danced at a Mazikaa event in San Diego on Dec. 15, 2024. Khattar told KQED that joy was a form of resistance. \u003ccite>(Mazikaa by Salar)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“I’m going to play a party, and they’re worried about tomorrow, you know?” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Persekian also missed his family in East Jerusalem and is unsure when he can visit them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It just breaks my heart because it just feels like there’s less chances of us returning or being able to be together,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Khattar’s family abroad has offered support, commenting on his Instagram posts about the band.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“My relatives back home personally have reached out to me on my Stories and said, ‘Good for you,’” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For him and other band members, performing has become a means of resistance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Not only is war like an attack on infrastructure or on humans, but it’s also a psychological thing,” Khattar said. “Like, you shouldn’t be happy, and they don’t want you to be happy. So being joyful and having a good time is almost like a rebellion in itself.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Persekian agrees, viewing the band’s music as a way to keep their culture alive while it’s under siege. Gaza’s health ministry has reported that Israel’s military campaign has killed more than \u003ca href=\"https://www.ochaopt.org/content/reported-impact-snapshot-gaza-strip-4-march-2025\">48,000 Palestinians\u003c/a>, and the war has leveled the architecture of cultural life as well. \u003ca href=\"https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/14/a-cultural-genocide-which-of-gazas-heritage-sites-have-been-destroyed\">Mosques\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/14/a-cultural-genocide-which-of-gazas-heritage-sites-have-been-destroyed\">churches\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.thenation.com/article/world/gaza-students-future/\">universities\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/arts-center-in-gaza-destroyed-180984142/\">art galleries\u003c/a> have been destroyed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When your culture is being stolen, you gotta be louder than ever,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>[\u003cstrong>March 9:\u003c/strong> A previous version of this story misspelled the names of Layan Amkieh, Salem Khattar, Naji Chaaban, Nour Amikeh and Mazikaa Enterprises. The story has been updated.]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"title": "Loz Rayoz de Guadalupe: Central Coast Norteño Band Embrace and Evolve Traditional Mexican Sound",
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"content": "\u003cp>Mexican music has a long, rich history of popularity and appreciation beyond the country’s borders, extending into the United States, the rest of Latin America and around the world. But in the last few years, Mexican regional music — a diverse group of folkloric styles from throughout the country — has exploded in popularity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Under the umbrella of Mexican regional music is \u003cem>norteño\u003c/em>, a distinct style from the country’s northern states that’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2015/03/11/392141073/how-mexico-learned-to-polka\">heavily influenced by European polka\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California’s Central Coast is a hotspot for the state’s norteño music scene. The Santa Maria Valley, north of Santa Barbara, is home to a new generation of norteño musicians preserving this musical heritage while making it their own.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Norteño music was the soundtrack of Chencho Pérez’s childhood. He’s a 19-year-old musician from the Central Coast city of Guadalupe, where he plays and sings in a band that includes his brother and father.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Growing up, my mom would always put [on] norteño artists, like Ramón Ayala, Los Tigres del Norte, Los Tucanes — we would listen to everything in norteño,” Pérez said. “So I’ve always had a passion for that type of music.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pérez said norteño has a unique instrumentation that sets it apart from other types of Mexican regional music. A major part of that is the \u003cem>bajo quinto\u003c/em>, a 10-stringed instrument that looks like a cross between an acoustic guitar and a bass. The use of a \u003cem>bajo quinto\u003c/em> sets norteño apart from other Mexican musical styles like \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2023/11/29/1215765458/the-popularity-of-regional-mexican-music-is-crossing-borders-and-going-global\">sierreño\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12027979\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1102px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12027979\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/image3.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1102\" height=\"1296\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/image3.jpg 1102w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/image3-800x941.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/image3-1020x1200.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/image3-160x188.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1102px) 100vw, 1102px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Loz Rayoz de Guadalupe is a Central Coast-based band formed by Irving Fabela, Joaquin Pérez, Chencho Pérez, and Aníbal Pérez. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Loz Rayoz de Guadalupe)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“Sierreño is basically people picking up 12-string guitars, and a bass, and six-string guitar, so that’s different from norteño,” Pérez said. “Norteño is like accordion, bajo quinto, and then you got the bass and the drums. So it’s Mexican music, but it’s still different — it’s like punk rock and metal rock.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Norteño, sierreño, and other Mexican genres like banda and mariachi are extremely popular in the Santa Maria Valley, drawing in performers and fans of all ages. Chencho didn’t just grow up hearing this music on records or the radio — he comes from a family of musicians.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pérez’s father plays several instruments, so as kids, he and his brother were surrounded by drums, guitars, bajo quintos, and more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When his younger brother started learning bass, Chencho learned drums with help from his dad. The three of them joined up with some other musicians and started performing norteño music when Chencho and his brother were just teenagers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The COVID-19 pandemic forced them to stop playing music for a while, during which time Pérez expanded his skills into new instruments, including the bajo quinto. Shortly after they were able to start performing again, they were \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7vO5OV_Oy0\">invited to appear on Tengo Mucho Talento\u003c/a>, a kind of Spanish-language \u003cem>America’s Got Talent.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chencho’s band didn’t win the competition, but appearing on TV put them on the map.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“So we didn’t win, but we got a lot of work that following year,” Pérez said. “We were fully booked the whole year.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After some reshuffling of band members, Chencho, his dad and his brother decided to split off into a new group. Suddenly, they had to settle on a new name.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When we were on the show, they told us that we had a lot of energy — like you can feel the energy when we play,” he said. “So when you think of energy, you think of a lightning bolt.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That image gave them the idea to use the Spanish word “rayo” — as in, a ray of lightning. And the word resonated with Chencho and his family bandmates for another reason.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We had a dog that was blind, he lived a long time, and he was a very loyal dog, and his name was Rayo,” Pérez said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12027982\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1333px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12027982\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/image2-e1740093624415.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1333\" height=\"1633\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/image2-e1740093624415.jpg 1333w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/image2-e1740093624415-800x980.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/image2-e1740093624415-1020x1250.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/image2-e1740093624415-160x196.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/image2-e1740093624415-1254x1536.jpg 1254w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1333px) 100vw, 1333px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Chencho Pérez poses with his bajo quinto. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Loz Rayoz de Guadalupe)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Pérez and his bandmates combined the word “rayo” with a reference to their hometown, and the new name was born: \u003cem>Loz Rayoz de Guadalupe. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When we announced the \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/lozrayozdeguadalupe/\">Instagram\u003c/a> post that we were like back with the new name and a new member, we got so much support. It felt really nice, like we really mattered in the community,” Pérez said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pérez is just one of many young norteño musicians embracing change while staying true to the genre’s roots. He’s now teaching himself accordion, so now, along with bajo quinto, bass, drums, guitar and vocals, he can play every instrument in a norteño band.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Loz Rayoz de Guadalupe is borrowing from other styles of Mexican regional music to create new sounds. “The music we recently recorded, it’s like accordion, bajo quinto, two alto horns [called] \u003cem>charchetas,\u003c/em> and then it’s a stand-up bass, and then a tuba,” Pérez said. “That’s something different that I also fell in love with. That type of sound is also kind of like what’s hitting right now on the charts.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For Pérez, music isn’t just a passion — it’s a career. Besides performing, he’s also learning the technical side of music, including live sound and audio engineering.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Music’s a business. Once you understand that, that’s when you’re on the right track. Music’s whatever you want it to be, but I want to make this as a lifestyle and my job.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At age 19, Chencho Pérez has already performed on TV and played with major artists he grew up listening to, like norteño legend \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/sections/altlatino/2014/04/12/301443014/borderland-music-songs-from-the-u-s-mexico-frontera\">Ramon Ayala\u003c/a>. He’s recording original music and making \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fTAmwHJQsE\">music videos\u003c/a> with Loz Rayoz de Guadalupe. He’s also getting a degree in music.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But even as he grows and expands his musical horizons, Pérez said norteño will always be his roots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I fall in love with music every day I perform,” he said. “Hearing the accordion, the drums, the bass, and just everything coming together — nothing else in this world can really bring people together like that. That’s why music is so special.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Mexican music has a long, rich history of popularity and appreciation beyond the country’s borders, extending into the United States, the rest of Latin America and around the world. But in the last few years, Mexican regional music — a diverse group of folkloric styles from throughout the country — has exploded in popularity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Under the umbrella of Mexican regional music is \u003cem>norteño\u003c/em>, a distinct style from the country’s northern states that’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2015/03/11/392141073/how-mexico-learned-to-polka\">heavily influenced by European polka\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California’s Central Coast is a hotspot for the state’s norteño music scene. The Santa Maria Valley, north of Santa Barbara, is home to a new generation of norteño musicians preserving this musical heritage while making it their own.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Norteño music was the soundtrack of Chencho Pérez’s childhood. He’s a 19-year-old musician from the Central Coast city of Guadalupe, where he plays and sings in a band that includes his brother and father.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Growing up, my mom would always put [on] norteño artists, like Ramón Ayala, Los Tigres del Norte, Los Tucanes — we would listen to everything in norteño,” Pérez said. “So I’ve always had a passion for that type of music.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pérez said norteño has a unique instrumentation that sets it apart from other types of Mexican regional music. A major part of that is the \u003cem>bajo quinto\u003c/em>, a 10-stringed instrument that looks like a cross between an acoustic guitar and a bass. The use of a \u003cem>bajo quinto\u003c/em> sets norteño apart from other Mexican musical styles like \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2023/11/29/1215765458/the-popularity-of-regional-mexican-music-is-crossing-borders-and-going-global\">sierreño\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12027979\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1102px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12027979\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/image3.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1102\" height=\"1296\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/image3.jpg 1102w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/image3-800x941.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/image3-1020x1200.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/image3-160x188.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1102px) 100vw, 1102px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Loz Rayoz de Guadalupe is a Central Coast-based band formed by Irving Fabela, Joaquin Pérez, Chencho Pérez, and Aníbal Pérez. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Loz Rayoz de Guadalupe)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“Sierreño is basically people picking up 12-string guitars, and a bass, and six-string guitar, so that’s different from norteño,” Pérez said. “Norteño is like accordion, bajo quinto, and then you got the bass and the drums. So it’s Mexican music, but it’s still different — it’s like punk rock and metal rock.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Norteño, sierreño, and other Mexican genres like banda and mariachi are extremely popular in the Santa Maria Valley, drawing in performers and fans of all ages. Chencho didn’t just grow up hearing this music on records or the radio — he comes from a family of musicians.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pérez’s father plays several instruments, so as kids, he and his brother were surrounded by drums, guitars, bajo quintos, and more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When his younger brother started learning bass, Chencho learned drums with help from his dad. The three of them joined up with some other musicians and started performing norteño music when Chencho and his brother were just teenagers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The COVID-19 pandemic forced them to stop playing music for a while, during which time Pérez expanded his skills into new instruments, including the bajo quinto. Shortly after they were able to start performing again, they were \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7vO5OV_Oy0\">invited to appear on Tengo Mucho Talento\u003c/a>, a kind of Spanish-language \u003cem>America’s Got Talent.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chencho’s band didn’t win the competition, but appearing on TV put them on the map.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“So we didn’t win, but we got a lot of work that following year,” Pérez said. “We were fully booked the whole year.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After some reshuffling of band members, Chencho, his dad and his brother decided to split off into a new group. Suddenly, they had to settle on a new name.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When we were on the show, they told us that we had a lot of energy — like you can feel the energy when we play,” he said. “So when you think of energy, you think of a lightning bolt.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That image gave them the idea to use the Spanish word “rayo” — as in, a ray of lightning. And the word resonated with Chencho and his family bandmates for another reason.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We had a dog that was blind, he lived a long time, and he was a very loyal dog, and his name was Rayo,” Pérez said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12027982\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1333px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12027982\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/image2-e1740093624415.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1333\" height=\"1633\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/image2-e1740093624415.jpg 1333w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/image2-e1740093624415-800x980.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/image2-e1740093624415-1020x1250.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/image2-e1740093624415-160x196.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/image2-e1740093624415-1254x1536.jpg 1254w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1333px) 100vw, 1333px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Chencho Pérez poses with his bajo quinto. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Loz Rayoz de Guadalupe)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Pérez and his bandmates combined the word “rayo” with a reference to their hometown, and the new name was born: \u003cem>Loz Rayoz de Guadalupe. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When we announced the \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/lozrayozdeguadalupe/\">Instagram\u003c/a> post that we were like back with the new name and a new member, we got so much support. It felt really nice, like we really mattered in the community,” Pérez said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pérez is just one of many young norteño musicians embracing change while staying true to the genre’s roots. He’s now teaching himself accordion, so now, along with bajo quinto, bass, drums, guitar and vocals, he can play every instrument in a norteño band.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Loz Rayoz de Guadalupe is borrowing from other styles of Mexican regional music to create new sounds. “The music we recently recorded, it’s like accordion, bajo quinto, two alto horns [called] \u003cem>charchetas,\u003c/em> and then it’s a stand-up bass, and then a tuba,” Pérez said. “That’s something different that I also fell in love with. That type of sound is also kind of like what’s hitting right now on the charts.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For Pérez, music isn’t just a passion — it’s a career. Besides performing, he’s also learning the technical side of music, including live sound and audio engineering.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Music’s a business. Once you understand that, that’s when you’re on the right track. Music’s whatever you want it to be, but I want to make this as a lifestyle and my job.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At age 19, Chencho Pérez has already performed on TV and played with major artists he grew up listening to, like norteño legend \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/sections/altlatino/2014/04/12/301443014/borderland-music-songs-from-the-u-s-mexico-frontera\">Ramon Ayala\u003c/a>. He’s recording original music and making \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fTAmwHJQsE\">music videos\u003c/a> with Loz Rayoz de Guadalupe. He’s also getting a degree in music.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But even as he grows and expands his musical horizons, Pérez said norteño will always be his roots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I fall in love with music every day I perform,” he said. “Hearing the accordion, the drums, the bass, and just everything coming together — nothing else in this world can really bring people together like that. That’s why music is so special.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cem>This story is part of The California Report Magazine’s series about \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/california-composers\">\u003cem>California composers\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>. Listen to this and more in-depth storytelling by \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-california-report-magazine/id1314750545?mt=2\">\u003cem>subscribing\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem> to The California Report Magazine podcast.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s early evening and a group of musicians — led by co-composers Wendy Reid and Lulu — is beginning to assemble in Berkeley’s Live Oak Park under a small redwood grove wrapped by a creek.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Unlike at a concert hall, the audience here is tasked with finding their own seats. Some settle into the ivy or perch on the stairs that lead down to the performance area. Others sit on the grassy bank high above the musicians. I find a spot under a redwood tree. There is a sense of anticipation in the air.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some of the people here tonight have been following Reid’s work for years. ”Her pieces are virtuosic,” said Kattt Atchley, a Bay Area improvisational artist. “ Wendy’s unusual — I mean, this is unusual — but she can pull it off. I don’t think many people can. But she can.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But in many ways, Lulu feels like the star of this unusual performance. People whisper her name and strain to see her warming up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lulu and Reid have been making music together for almost two decades. And though they don’t speak the same language, they communicate through musical composition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When I interact with Lulu, I’m learning her language and then she’s learning my language,” said Reid, who earned a Master of Arts degree from Mills College and studied with renowned composer, Nadia Boulanger.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12026551\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00232.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12026551 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00232.jpg\" alt=\"A middle-aged woman with glasses plays violin next to a grey parrot in a purple-lit cage.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00232.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00232-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00232-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00232-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00232-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00232-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Wendy Reid, and Lulu, her African grey parrot, practice in Reid’s apartment in Berkeley on Feb. 6, 2025. \u003ccite>(David M. Barreda/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>As the musicians start warming up, they form a semicircle around the star of the show, Lulu, the one so many people came here to see. But Lulu is still quietly observing, unassuming.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lulu is perched on a bar in a brightly lit cage — because Lulu is a bird: an African grey parrot.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>‘Ambient Bird’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>This performance is called Ambient Bird. It’s based on Reid and Lulu’s interactions, which Reid transcribes into musical compositions and invites ensemble members to perform. Tonight, there are a dozen musicians playing alongside the two co-composers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The quietest of all the performers is Lulu herself. With all eyes on her and so many interesting sounds, she tends to get a little stage fright. However, Reid is prepared for that and plays recordings of Lulu alongside the live music.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"more stories on california composers\" tag=\"california-composers\"]As the performance begins, some people wander over from the park to join the audience. The music intermingles with birdsong, dog barks, and kids playing in the creek below.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For Reid, these sounds are not interruptions but part of the reason she loves performing in these kinds of public spaces and surprising people who happen upon her music — like Joe Silber.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We just stumbled into this with our kids,” he said in a whisper. “I think it’s a human/bird collaboration.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And though they aren’t paying attention to the performance, for a moment, Silber’s kids become part of it, yelling to each other across the creek as they scramble over the bank’s exposed roots. The musicians continue to play.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That’s exactly what I want in this piece,” Reid said. “I want that ambient sound of people just living their lives as this odd little piece goes on.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The kids, the dogs, the water, cars whizzing by, wind in the trees — it’s all part of Reid’s composition. It also feels like a celebration of her relationship with Lulu and of the liminal human/bird world that they’ve created together.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Housemates\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>At Reid’s home in Berkeley, Lulu’s crate is next to the door, surrounded by stacks of books and records. She’s gray, with light eyes and a bright red undercoat. And she likes being sprayed with water.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wendy sprays her as she talks to her. They go back and forth, saying “OK” to each other and laughing, Lulu imitating the sounds of Wendy’s laughter with an almost eerie perfection. Lulu is an entertainer and has learned how people interact with each other and with her. She repeats phrases people say to her: “cute” or “pretty girl” or “beautiful bird.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But don’t get too close.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If you get too close to her, she’ll bite you,” Reid said. “And she’ll know you’ll say ‘ouch.’ So she says ‘ouch’ before you. And then she’ll start laughing because that’s what people do.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Laughing, Reid said, “It’s kind of embarrassing because it’s not her intellectual side. It’s her conniving side, really.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>The composition process\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Reid and Lulu compose music in their living room. “We improvise a little bit probably every day,” Reid said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She records and transcribes their interactions. Their composing process is spontaneous and unique every time. Sometimes, Reid will try to inspire Lulu with a birdcall. “You know how you kind of yell to somebody when you want to just hear their voice?” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Reid also teaches violin lessons at her home and said that when a student is practicing, Lulu loves to chime in with squawks, songs, and, occasionally, a note correction.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Sometimes somebody’s playing a little out of tune, and then she’ll throw them the right note, and I’ll say, ‘Just like Lulu — a little bit higher.”’\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This has a way of lightening the mood. “When a teacher corrects you, it’s much more intimidating, but when a bird is correcting you, it’s funny,” Reid said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12026553\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00482.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12026553 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00482.jpg\" alt=\"A middle-aged woman with glasses looks at a grey parrot perched on her shoulder.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00482.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00482-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00482-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00482-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00482-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00482-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Wendy Reid and Lulu pose in Reid’s apartment in Berkeley on Feb. 6, 2025. \u003ccite>(David M. Barreda/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Reid’s been making music with animals for decades. She even collaborated with her border collie, Twinkie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That dog didn’t have the vocabulary of a bird, so she wasn’t going to be featured in all my pieces,” Reid said. “But all the birds that I’ve had have been featured in my music since 1980.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Birdsong is also embedded in Reid’s earliest memories of music when she’d go to her grandmother’s ranch in Wyoming and escape to a nearby forest to play her violin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The ranch was similar in some ways to the Live Oak performance space.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was surrounded by all these trees and a creek,” said Reid, recalling how she would take her violin and explore the music she knew.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As a child, Reid didn’t want people to follow her to the creek and listen to her play. “I just wanted to be out there by myself and do my own thing and not be thinking that I have to perform for somebody,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>‘I think of her as an equal’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>In the materials for the Live Oak performance, Lulu’s name is listed before Reid’s — a signal that Lulu is not a mere sound effect in their music.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think of her as an equal when I write a piece of music. She can’t write the notes down, but she’s definitely creating the ideas with me,” Reid said. “I always call her half-human, and I’m half-bird.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On the night of the performance at Live Oak Park, Reid doesn’t pay much attention to the audience and their response, or let it inhibit her work. “If somebody thought it was stupid, that wouldn’t have any effect on me,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As the performance ends and the sounds of chirping crickets fill the void, I walk up to Reid and Lulu to ask them how they think it went.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She likes to listen to herself I think, that’s the problem,” Reid said. “She might have done a few peeps.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Just a few peeps. Lulu cocks her head to the side. I wonder what she makes of all this — I wish I could understand her the way Reid does.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think she gets mesmerized by the whole situation,” Reid said. “She hears the instruments playing, and she hears herself playing, and she’s thinking, ‘Maybe I should just be listening.’”\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>This story is part of The California Report Magazine’s series about \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/california-composers\">\u003cem>California composers\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>. Listen to this and more in-depth storytelling by \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-california-report-magazine/id1314750545?mt=2\">\u003cem>subscribing\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem> to The California Report Magazine podcast.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s early evening and a group of musicians — led by co-composers Wendy Reid and Lulu — is beginning to assemble in Berkeley’s Live Oak Park under a small redwood grove wrapped by a creek.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Unlike at a concert hall, the audience here is tasked with finding their own seats. Some settle into the ivy or perch on the stairs that lead down to the performance area. Others sit on the grassy bank high above the musicians. I find a spot under a redwood tree. There is a sense of anticipation in the air.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some of the people here tonight have been following Reid’s work for years. ”Her pieces are virtuosic,” said Kattt Atchley, a Bay Area improvisational artist. “ Wendy’s unusual — I mean, this is unusual — but she can pull it off. I don’t think many people can. But she can.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But in many ways, Lulu feels like the star of this unusual performance. People whisper her name and strain to see her warming up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lulu and Reid have been making music together for almost two decades. And though they don’t speak the same language, they communicate through musical composition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When I interact with Lulu, I’m learning her language and then she’s learning my language,” said Reid, who earned a Master of Arts degree from Mills College and studied with renowned composer, Nadia Boulanger.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12026551\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00232.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12026551 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00232.jpg\" alt=\"A middle-aged woman with glasses plays violin next to a grey parrot in a purple-lit cage.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00232.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00232-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00232-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00232-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00232-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00232-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Wendy Reid, and Lulu, her African grey parrot, practice in Reid’s apartment in Berkeley on Feb. 6, 2025. \u003ccite>(David M. Barreda/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>As the musicians start warming up, they form a semicircle around the star of the show, Lulu, the one so many people came here to see. But Lulu is still quietly observing, unassuming.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lulu is perched on a bar in a brightly lit cage — because Lulu is a bird: an African grey parrot.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>‘Ambient Bird’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>This performance is called Ambient Bird. It’s based on Reid and Lulu’s interactions, which Reid transcribes into musical compositions and invites ensemble members to perform. Tonight, there are a dozen musicians playing alongside the two co-composers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The quietest of all the performers is Lulu herself. With all eyes on her and so many interesting sounds, she tends to get a little stage fright. However, Reid is prepared for that and plays recordings of Lulu alongside the live music.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>As the performance begins, some people wander over from the park to join the audience. The music intermingles with birdsong, dog barks, and kids playing in the creek below.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For Reid, these sounds are not interruptions but part of the reason she loves performing in these kinds of public spaces and surprising people who happen upon her music — like Joe Silber.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We just stumbled into this with our kids,” he said in a whisper. “I think it’s a human/bird collaboration.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And though they aren’t paying attention to the performance, for a moment, Silber’s kids become part of it, yelling to each other across the creek as they scramble over the bank’s exposed roots. The musicians continue to play.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That’s exactly what I want in this piece,” Reid said. “I want that ambient sound of people just living their lives as this odd little piece goes on.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The kids, the dogs, the water, cars whizzing by, wind in the trees — it’s all part of Reid’s composition. It also feels like a celebration of her relationship with Lulu and of the liminal human/bird world that they’ve created together.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Housemates\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>At Reid’s home in Berkeley, Lulu’s crate is next to the door, surrounded by stacks of books and records. She’s gray, with light eyes and a bright red undercoat. And she likes being sprayed with water.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wendy sprays her as she talks to her. They go back and forth, saying “OK” to each other and laughing, Lulu imitating the sounds of Wendy’s laughter with an almost eerie perfection. Lulu is an entertainer and has learned how people interact with each other and with her. She repeats phrases people say to her: “cute” or “pretty girl” or “beautiful bird.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But don’t get too close.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If you get too close to her, she’ll bite you,” Reid said. “And she’ll know you’ll say ‘ouch.’ So she says ‘ouch’ before you. And then she’ll start laughing because that’s what people do.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Laughing, Reid said, “It’s kind of embarrassing because it’s not her intellectual side. It’s her conniving side, really.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>The composition process\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Reid and Lulu compose music in their living room. “We improvise a little bit probably every day,” Reid said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She records and transcribes their interactions. Their composing process is spontaneous and unique every time. Sometimes, Reid will try to inspire Lulu with a birdcall. “You know how you kind of yell to somebody when you want to just hear their voice?” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Reid also teaches violin lessons at her home and said that when a student is practicing, Lulu loves to chime in with squawks, songs, and, occasionally, a note correction.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Sometimes somebody’s playing a little out of tune, and then she’ll throw them the right note, and I’ll say, ‘Just like Lulu — a little bit higher.”’\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This has a way of lightening the mood. “When a teacher corrects you, it’s much more intimidating, but when a bird is correcting you, it’s funny,” Reid said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12026553\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00482.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12026553 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00482.jpg\" alt=\"A middle-aged woman with glasses looks at a grey parrot perched on her shoulder.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00482.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00482-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00482-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00482-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00482-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/20250206_Ambient-Bird_DMB_00482-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Wendy Reid and Lulu pose in Reid’s apartment in Berkeley on Feb. 6, 2025. \u003ccite>(David M. Barreda/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Reid’s been making music with animals for decades. She even collaborated with her border collie, Twinkie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That dog didn’t have the vocabulary of a bird, so she wasn’t going to be featured in all my pieces,” Reid said. “But all the birds that I’ve had have been featured in my music since 1980.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Birdsong is also embedded in Reid’s earliest memories of music when she’d go to her grandmother’s ranch in Wyoming and escape to a nearby forest to play her violin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The ranch was similar in some ways to the Live Oak performance space.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was surrounded by all these trees and a creek,” said Reid, recalling how she would take her violin and explore the music she knew.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As a child, Reid didn’t want people to follow her to the creek and listen to her play. “I just wanted to be out there by myself and do my own thing and not be thinking that I have to perform for somebody,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>‘I think of her as an equal’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>In the materials for the Live Oak performance, Lulu’s name is listed before Reid’s — a signal that Lulu is not a mere sound effect in their music.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think of her as an equal when I write a piece of music. She can’t write the notes down, but she’s definitely creating the ideas with me,” Reid said. “I always call her half-human, and I’m half-bird.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On the night of the performance at Live Oak Park, Reid doesn’t pay much attention to the audience and their response, or let it inhibit her work. “If somebody thought it was stupid, that wouldn’t have any effect on me,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As the performance ends and the sounds of chirping crickets fill the void, I walk up to Reid and Lulu to ask them how they think it went.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She likes to listen to herself I think, that’s the problem,” Reid said. “She might have done a few peeps.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Just a few peeps. Lulu cocks her head to the side. I wonder what she makes of all this — I wish I could understand her the way Reid does.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think she gets mesmerized by the whole situation,” Reid said. “She hears the instruments playing, and she hears herself playing, and she’s thinking, ‘Maybe I should just be listening.’”\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
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"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
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"mindshift": {
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"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
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"order": 12
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"info": "\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. Hosts Steve Inskeep, David Greene and Rachel Martin bring you the latest breaking news and features to prepare you for the day.",
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"tagline": "Deeply-reported investigative journalism",
"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
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"info": "Our weekly podcast explores how the media 'sausage' is made, casts an incisive eye on fluctuations in the marketplace of ideas, and examines threats to the freedom of information and expression in America and abroad. For one hour a week, the show tries to lift the veil from the process of \"making media,\" especially news media, because it's through that lens that we see the world and the world sees us",
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"perspectives": {
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"info": "The economy explained. Imagine you could call up a friend and say, Meet me at the bar and tell me what's going on with the economy. Now imagine that's actually a fun evening.",
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"tagline": "Politics from a personal perspective",
"info": "Political Breakdown is a new series that explores the political intersection of California and the nation. Each week hosts Scott Shafer and Marisa Lagos are joined with a new special guest to unpack politics -- with personality — and offer an insider’s glimpse at how politics happens.",
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"possible": {
"id": "possible",
"title": "Possible",
"info": "Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? Each episode also includes a short fiction story generated by advanced AI GPT-4, serving as a thought-provoking springboard to speculate how humanity could leverage technology for good.",
"airtime": "SUN 2pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Possible-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.possible.fm/",
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"source": "Possible"
},
"link": "/radio/program/possible",
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},
"pri-the-world": {
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"title": "PRI's The World: Latest Edition",
"info": "Each weekday, host Marco Werman and his team of producers bring you the world's most interesting stories in an hour of radio that reminds us just how small our planet really is.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 2pm-3pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-World-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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},
"radiolab": {
"id": "radiolab",
"title": "Radiolab",
"info": "A two-time Peabody Award-winner, Radiolab is an investigation told through sounds and stories, and centered around one big idea. In the Radiolab world, information sounds like music and science and culture collide. Hosted by Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich, the show is designed for listeners who demand skepticism, but appreciate wonder. WNYC Studios is the producer of other leading podcasts including Freakonomics Radio, Death, Sex & Money, On the Media and many more.",
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},
"reveal": {
"id": "reveal",
"title": "Reveal",
"info": "Created by The Center for Investigative Reporting and PRX, Reveal is public radios first one-hour weekly radio show and podcast dedicated to investigative reporting. Credible, fact based and without a partisan agenda, Reveal combines the power and artistry of driveway moment storytelling with data-rich reporting on critically important issues. The result is stories that inform and inspire, arming our listeners with information to right injustices, hold the powerful accountable and improve lives.Reveal is hosted by Al Letson and showcases the award-winning work of CIR and newsrooms large and small across the nation. In a radio and podcast market crowded with choices, Reveal focuses on important and often surprising stories that illuminate the world for our listeners.",
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