Lab Rats are Not Little People -- But Science Assumes That They Are
After Infecting Pregnant Monkey With Zika, Scientists Wait for Backlash
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One of the big reasons is the use of animals in research.","publishDate":1491947981,"status":"inherit","parent":370920,"modified":1491947981,"caption":null,"credit":null,"description":"Most new drugs don't work when tested in people. 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These failures are not only a major disappointment, they sharply drive up the cost of developing new drugs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A major reason for these failures is that most new drugs are first tested out in mice, rats or other animals. Often those animal studies show great promise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But mice aren't simply furry little people, so these studies often lead science astray. Some scientists are now rethinking animal studies to make them more effective for human health.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When scientists first started using animals in research over a century ago, the animals were not regarded as human stand-ins. Scientists studying rats were initially trying to understand rats, says \u003ca href=\"http://www.yerkes.emory.edu/research/divisions/neuropharmacology_neurologic_diseases/preuss_todd.html\">Todd Preuss\u003c/a>, an anthropologist at the Yerkes National Primate Research Center at Emory University.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"As this process went on, people stopped seeing them as specialized animals and started seeing them more and more as prototypical mammals,\" Preuss says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But is a rat really a generic mammal? Preuss says emphatically no. But that's how rodents were pitched when they became products sold to scientists.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"It wasn't strictly a financial interest,\" he says. The sellers \"really believed that you could do almost anything\" with these animals. \"You could learn about almost any feature of human organization, you could cure almost any disease by studying these animals.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_370925\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg class=\"size-medium wp-image-370925\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/futureofyou/wp-content/uploads/sites/13/2017/04/lab-rats-800x575.jpg\" alt=\"The rat holding facility at Hazelton Laboratories in Washington, D.C., in 1967.\" width=\"800\" height=\"575\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/13/2017/04/lab-rats.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/13/2017/04/lab-rats-160x115.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/13/2017/04/lab-rats-768x552.jpg 768w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/13/2017/04/lab-rats-240x173.jpg 240w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/13/2017/04/lab-rats-375x270.jpg 375w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/13/2017/04/lab-rats-520x374.jpg 520w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The rat holding facility at Hazelton Laboratories in Washington, D.C., in 1967. \u003ccite>(Fox Photos/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>That was a dangerous assumption. Rats and humans have been on their own evolutionary paths for tens of millions of years. We've developed our own unique features, and so have the rodents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So it should come as no surprise that a drug that works in a mouse often doesn't work in a person. Even so, Preuss says there's tremendous momentum to keep using animals as human substitutes. Entire scientific communities are built up around rats, mice and other lab animals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Once these communities exist, then you have an infrastructure of knowledge: how to raise the animals, how to keep them healthy,\" Preuss says. \"You have companies that spring up to provide you with specialized equipment to study these animals.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chances are, people studying the same disease study the same tailor-made strain of animal. Journals and funding agencies actually expect it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"So there's a whole institution that develops,\" Preuss says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And it's hard to interrupt that culture. (Preuss spoke about this subject in a \u003ca href=\"https://videocast.nih.gov/summary.asp?Live=17982&bhcp=1\">2016 talk\u003c/a> at the National Institutes of Health.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can get a glimpse of the scale of this enterprise by passing through one of hundreds of facilities nationwide devoted to the care and feeding of mice. On the Stanford University campus, attendants roll supply carts through fluorescent-lit hallways and past row after row of doors at an expansive mouse facility.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I'm guided through the labyrinth by \u003ca href=\"https://profiles.stanford.edu/joseph-garner\">Joseph Garner\u003c/a>, a behavioral scientist at the Stanford University Medical Center. We go into a windowless room stacked floor to ceiling with seemingly identical plastic cages full of mice. The philosophy behind mouse research has been to make everything as uniform as possible, so results from one facility would be the same as the identical experiment elsewhere.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignright\">'Maybe we need to stop thinking of animals as these little furry test tubes that can be or even should be controlled. And maybe instead we should think of them as patients.'\u003ccite>Joseph Garner, behavioral scientist, Stanford University\u003c/cite>\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>But despite extensive efforts to be consistent, this setup hides a huge amount of variation. Bedding may differ from one facility to the next. So might the diet. Mice respond strongly to individual human handlers. Mice also react differently depending on whether their cage is up near the fluorescent lights or hidden down in the shadows.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Garner and colleagues tried to run identical experiments in six different mouse facilities, scattered throughout research centers in Europe. Even using genetically identical mice of the same age, the \u003ca href=\"http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016461\">results\u003c/a> varied all over the map.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Garner says scientists shouldn't even be trying to do experiments this way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Imagine you were doing a human drug trial and you said to the FDA, 'OK, I'm going to do this trial in 43-year-old white males in one small town in California,'\" Garner says — a town where everyone lives in identical ranch homes, with the same monotonous diets and the same thermostat set to the same temperature.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Which is too cold, and they can't change it,\" he goes on. \"And oh, they all have the same grandfather!\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The FDA would laugh that off as an insane setup, Garner says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"But that's exactly what we do in animals. We try to control everything we can possibly think of, and as a result we learn absolutely nothing.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Garner argues that research based on mice would be more reliable if it were set up more like experiments in humans — recognizing that variation is inevitable, and designing to embrace it rather than ignore it. He and his colleagues have \u003ca href=\"http://www.labanimal.com/laban/journal/v46/n4/pdf/laban.1224.pdf\">recently published a manifesto\u003c/a>, urging colleagues in the field to look at animals in this new light.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Maybe we need to stop thinking of animals as these little furry test tubes that can be or even should be controlled,\" he says. \"And maybe instead we should think of them as patients.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That could solve some of the problems with animal research, but by no means all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Scientists make far too many assumptions about the underlying biology of disease when creating animal models of those illnesses, says \u003ca href=\"http://vivo.med.cornell.edu/display/cwid-gpetsko\">Gregory Petsko\u003c/a>, who studies Alzheimer's disease and other neurological disorders at the Weill Cornell Medical School.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"It's probably only when you get to try your treatments in people that you're really going to have any idea how right those assumptions were,\" Petsko says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In his field, the assumptions are often poor, or downright misleading. And Petsko says this mindset has been counterproductive. Scientists in his field have \"been led astray for many years by relying so heavily on animal models,\" he says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For many years that was simply the best that science could do, Petsko says. So he doesn't fault his colleagues for trying.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"What I am saying is at some point you have to cut your losses. You have to say, 'OK, this took us as far as it could take us, quite some time ago.'\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For neurological diseases, Petsko says, scientists might learn more from studying human cells than whole animals. Animals are still useful for studying the safety of potential new treatments, but beyond that, he says, don't count on them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Preuss at Emory agrees that using animals as models of disease is a big reason that many results in biomedical research aren't readily reproducible. \"I think that we have means to resolve that, though.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>How? \"You have to think outside of the model box,\" he says. Mice and rats aren't simplified humans. Scientists should stop thinking they are.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Preuss says scientists can still learn a lot about biology and disease by studying animals — for example, by comparing how humans and other animals differ, or where they share common traits. Those can reveal a lot about biology without assuming that what's true in a rat is likely true in a human.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Scientists need to break out of a culture that is hampering progress,\" Preuss says. That's tough to do right now, in a world where science funding is on the chopping block. Many scientists are reluctant to take a risk that could backfire. But the upside could benefit us all, in the form of a better understanding of disease, and effective new drugs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Richard Harris did some of the reporting for this story while researching his book\u003c/em> \u003ca href=\"https://shop.npr.org/search?q=rigor+mortis\">Rigor Mortis: How Sloppy Science Creates Worthless Cures, Crushes Hope, and Wastes Billions.\u003c/a> \u003cem>You can contact him at rharris@npr.org.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003chr>\n\u003cdiv class=\"fullattribution\">Copyright 2017 NPR. To see more, visit http://www.npr.org/.\u003cimg src=\"https://www.google-analytics.com/__utm.gif?utmac=UA-5828686-4&utmdt=Drugs+That+Work+In+Mice+Often+Fail+When+Tried+In+People&utme=8(APIKey)9(MDAxOTAwOTE4MDEyMTkxMDAzNjczZDljZA004)\">\u003c/div>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Most potential new drugs don't work when tested in people. It's a major disappointment and it drives up the cost of developing new drugs. One big reason is the use of animals in medical research.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1491949586,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":38,"wordCount":1331},"headData":{"title":"Lab Rats are Not Little People -- But Science Assumes That They Are | KQED","description":"Most potential new drugs don't work when tested in people. It's a major disappointment and it drives up the cost of developing new drugs. One big reason is the use of animals in medical research.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Lab Rats are Not Little People -- But Science Assumes That They Are","datePublished":"2017-04-12T15:00:56.000Z","dateModified":"2017-04-11T22:26:26.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"disqusIdentifier":"370920 https://ww2.kqed.org/futureofyou/?p=370920","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/futureofyou/2017/04/12/lab-rats-are-not-little-people-but-science-assumes-that-they-are/","disqusTitle":"Lab Rats are Not Little People -- But Science Assumes That They Are","nprByline":"\u003cstrong>Richard Harris\u003cBR />NPR\u003c/strong>","nprImageAgency":"Sam Rowe for NPR","nprStoryId":"522775456","nprApiLink":"http://api.npr.org/query?id=522775456&apiKey=MDAxOTAwOTE4MDEyMTkxMDAzNjczZDljZA004","nprHtmlLink":"http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/04/10/522775456/drugs-that-work-in-mice-often-fail-when-tried-in-people?ft=nprml&f=522775456","nprRetrievedStory":"1","nprPubDate":"Mon, 10 Apr 2017 10:50:00 -0400","nprStoryDate":"Mon, 10 Apr 2017 04:37:00 -0400","nprLastModifiedDate":"Mon, 10 Apr 2017 15:42:55 -0400","nprAudio":"https://ondemand.npr.org/anon.npr-mp3/npr/me/2017/04/20170410_me_drugs_that_work_in_mice_often_fail_when_tried_in_people.mp3?orgId=1&topicId=1066&d=396&p=3&story=522775456&t=progseg&e=523237710&seg=2&ft=nprml&f=522775456","nprAudioM3u":"http://api.npr.org/m3u/1523237803-150f3b.m3u?orgId=1&topicId=1066&d=396&p=3&story=522775456&t=progseg&e=523237710&seg=2&ft=nprml&f=522775456","path":"/futureofyou/370920/lab-rats-are-not-little-people-but-science-assumes-that-they-are","audioUrl":"https://ondemand.npr.org/anon.npr-mp3/npr/me/2017/04/20170410_me_drugs_that_work_in_mice_often_fail_when_tried_in_people.mp3?orgId=1&topicId=1066&d=396&p=3&story=522775456&t=progseg&e=523237710&seg=2&ft=nprml&f=522775456","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Most potential new drugs fail when they're tested in people. These failures are not only a major disappointment, they sharply drive up the cost of developing new drugs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A major reason for these failures is that most new drugs are first tested out in mice, rats or other animals. Often those animal studies show great promise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But mice aren't simply furry little people, so these studies often lead science astray. Some scientists are now rethinking animal studies to make them more effective for human health.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When scientists first started using animals in research over a century ago, the animals were not regarded as human stand-ins. Scientists studying rats were initially trying to understand rats, says \u003ca href=\"http://www.yerkes.emory.edu/research/divisions/neuropharmacology_neurologic_diseases/preuss_todd.html\">Todd Preuss\u003c/a>, an anthropologist at the Yerkes National Primate Research Center at Emory University.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"As this process went on, people stopped seeing them as specialized animals and started seeing them more and more as prototypical mammals,\" Preuss says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But is a rat really a generic mammal? Preuss says emphatically no. But that's how rodents were pitched when they became products sold to scientists.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"It wasn't strictly a financial interest,\" he says. The sellers \"really believed that you could do almost anything\" with these animals. \"You could learn about almost any feature of human organization, you could cure almost any disease by studying these animals.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_370925\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg class=\"size-medium wp-image-370925\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/futureofyou/wp-content/uploads/sites/13/2017/04/lab-rats-800x575.jpg\" alt=\"The rat holding facility at Hazelton Laboratories in Washington, D.C., in 1967.\" width=\"800\" height=\"575\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/13/2017/04/lab-rats.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/13/2017/04/lab-rats-160x115.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/13/2017/04/lab-rats-768x552.jpg 768w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/13/2017/04/lab-rats-240x173.jpg 240w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/13/2017/04/lab-rats-375x270.jpg 375w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/13/2017/04/lab-rats-520x374.jpg 520w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The rat holding facility at Hazelton Laboratories in Washington, D.C., in 1967. \u003ccite>(Fox Photos/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>That was a dangerous assumption. Rats and humans have been on their own evolutionary paths for tens of millions of years. We've developed our own unique features, and so have the rodents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So it should come as no surprise that a drug that works in a mouse often doesn't work in a person. Even so, Preuss says there's tremendous momentum to keep using animals as human substitutes. Entire scientific communities are built up around rats, mice and other lab animals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Once these communities exist, then you have an infrastructure of knowledge: how to raise the animals, how to keep them healthy,\" Preuss says. \"You have companies that spring up to provide you with specialized equipment to study these animals.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chances are, people studying the same disease study the same tailor-made strain of animal. Journals and funding agencies actually expect it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"So there's a whole institution that develops,\" Preuss says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And it's hard to interrupt that culture. (Preuss spoke about this subject in a \u003ca href=\"https://videocast.nih.gov/summary.asp?Live=17982&bhcp=1\">2016 talk\u003c/a> at the National Institutes of Health.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can get a glimpse of the scale of this enterprise by passing through one of hundreds of facilities nationwide devoted to the care and feeding of mice. On the Stanford University campus, attendants roll supply carts through fluorescent-lit hallways and past row after row of doors at an expansive mouse facility.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I'm guided through the labyrinth by \u003ca href=\"https://profiles.stanford.edu/joseph-garner\">Joseph Garner\u003c/a>, a behavioral scientist at the Stanford University Medical Center. We go into a windowless room stacked floor to ceiling with seemingly identical plastic cages full of mice. The philosophy behind mouse research has been to make everything as uniform as possible, so results from one facility would be the same as the identical experiment elsewhere.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignright\">'Maybe we need to stop thinking of animals as these little furry test tubes that can be or even should be controlled. And maybe instead we should think of them as patients.'\u003ccite>Joseph Garner, behavioral scientist, Stanford University\u003c/cite>\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>But despite extensive efforts to be consistent, this setup hides a huge amount of variation. Bedding may differ from one facility to the next. So might the diet. Mice respond strongly to individual human handlers. Mice also react differently depending on whether their cage is up near the fluorescent lights or hidden down in the shadows.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Garner and colleagues tried to run identical experiments in six different mouse facilities, scattered throughout research centers in Europe. Even using genetically identical mice of the same age, the \u003ca href=\"http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016461\">results\u003c/a> varied all over the map.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Garner says scientists shouldn't even be trying to do experiments this way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Imagine you were doing a human drug trial and you said to the FDA, 'OK, I'm going to do this trial in 43-year-old white males in one small town in California,'\" Garner says — a town where everyone lives in identical ranch homes, with the same monotonous diets and the same thermostat set to the same temperature.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Which is too cold, and they can't change it,\" he goes on. \"And oh, they all have the same grandfather!\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The FDA would laugh that off as an insane setup, Garner says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"But that's exactly what we do in animals. We try to control everything we can possibly think of, and as a result we learn absolutely nothing.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Garner argues that research based on mice would be more reliable if it were set up more like experiments in humans — recognizing that variation is inevitable, and designing to embrace it rather than ignore it. He and his colleagues have \u003ca href=\"http://www.labanimal.com/laban/journal/v46/n4/pdf/laban.1224.pdf\">recently published a manifesto\u003c/a>, urging colleagues in the field to look at animals in this new light.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Maybe we need to stop thinking of animals as these little furry test tubes that can be or even should be controlled,\" he says. \"And maybe instead we should think of them as patients.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That could solve some of the problems with animal research, but by no means all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Scientists make far too many assumptions about the underlying biology of disease when creating animal models of those illnesses, says \u003ca href=\"http://vivo.med.cornell.edu/display/cwid-gpetsko\">Gregory Petsko\u003c/a>, who studies Alzheimer's disease and other neurological disorders at the Weill Cornell Medical School.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"It's probably only when you get to try your treatments in people that you're really going to have any idea how right those assumptions were,\" Petsko says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In his field, the assumptions are often poor, or downright misleading. And Petsko says this mindset has been counterproductive. Scientists in his field have \"been led astray for many years by relying so heavily on animal models,\" he says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For many years that was simply the best that science could do, Petsko says. So he doesn't fault his colleagues for trying.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"What I am saying is at some point you have to cut your losses. You have to say, 'OK, this took us as far as it could take us, quite some time ago.'\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For neurological diseases, Petsko says, scientists might learn more from studying human cells than whole animals. Animals are still useful for studying the safety of potential new treatments, but beyond that, he says, don't count on them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Preuss at Emory agrees that using animals as models of disease is a big reason that many results in biomedical research aren't readily reproducible. \"I think that we have means to resolve that, though.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>How? \"You have to think outside of the model box,\" he says. Mice and rats aren't simplified humans. Scientists should stop thinking they are.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Preuss says scientists can still learn a lot about biology and disease by studying animals — for example, by comparing how humans and other animals differ, or where they share common traits. Those can reveal a lot about biology without assuming that what's true in a rat is likely true in a human.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Scientists need to break out of a culture that is hampering progress,\" Preuss says. That's tough to do right now, in a world where science funding is on the chopping block. Many scientists are reluctant to take a risk that could backfire. But the upside could benefit us all, in the form of a better understanding of disease, and effective new drugs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Richard Harris did some of the reporting for this story while researching his book\u003c/em> \u003ca href=\"https://shop.npr.org/search?q=rigor+mortis\">Rigor Mortis: How Sloppy Science Creates Worthless Cures, Crushes Hope, and Wastes Billions.\u003c/a> \u003cem>You can contact him at rharris@npr.org.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003chr>\n\u003cdiv class=\"fullattribution\">Copyright 2017 NPR. To see more, visit http://www.npr.org/.\u003cimg src=\"https://www.google-analytics.com/__utm.gif?utmac=UA-5828686-4&utmdt=Drugs+That+Work+In+Mice+Often+Fail+When+Tried+In+People&utme=8(APIKey)9(MDAxOTAwOTE4MDEyMTkxMDAzNjczZDljZA004)\">\u003c/div>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/futureofyou/370920/lab-rats-are-not-little-people-but-science-assumes-that-they-are","authors":["byline_futureofyou_370920"],"categories":["futureofyou_1"],"tags":["futureofyou_827","futureofyou_1246","futureofyou_1245","futureofyou_775","futureofyou_978"],"featImg":"futureofyou_370921","label":"futureofyou"},"futureofyou_132435":{"type":"posts","id":"futureofyou_132435","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"futureofyou","id":"132435","score":null,"sort":[1458692019000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"after-infecting-pregnant-monkey-with-zika-scientists-wait-for-backlash","title":"After Infecting Pregnant Monkey With Zika, Scientists Wait for Backlash","publishDate":1458692019,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Future of You | KQED Future of You | KQED Science","labelTerm":{"term":54,"site":"futureofyou"},"content":"\u003cp>We've all seen the \u003ca href=\"https://www.google.com/search?q=zika+microcephaly\" target=\"_blank\">media coverage\u003c/a> about the Zika virus' potentially \u003ca href=\"http://news.yahoo.com/brazil-says-confirmed-suspected-microcephaly-cases-rise-5-135759702.html\" target=\"_blank\">destructive effect\u003c/a> on newborns. The virus has sowed fear and loathing in parts of Latin America and the Caribbean, and now Puerto Rico is \u003ca href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/20/health/zika-virus-puerto-rico.html?_r=0\" target=\"_blank\">preparing for a nasty epidemic\u003c/a> that may result in hundreds of thousands of infections. The CDC has \u003ca href=\"http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/alert/zika-virus-puerto-rico\" target=\"_blank\">advised pregnant women\u003c/a> to avoid traveling to the island.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Two researchers who are working diligently to learn more about Zika are Dave O'Connor and Tom Friedrich. They are currently studying the virus' transmission from mother to fetus, in hopes of informing the public health response.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignright\">\"The idea of making data from nonhuman primates available to the public is basically an invitation to disaster.\"\u003ccite>Researcher Dave O'Connor\u003c/cite>\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>And yet, O'Connor and Friedrich have prepared themselves for the possibility, if not the probability, that some will not exactly view them as doing God’s own work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Why? Because they are using rhesus monkeys in their research. Two weeks ago, they deliberately infected a pregnant mother with the virus in order to observe its effect on the fetus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Posting Data in Real Time\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>O'Connor and Friedrich hope to answer important unknowns about the virus, including how long it's present after infection, where in the body besides the blood it exists, and what the likelihood is that an infected mother will pass it on to her offspring. They are also deviating from the ordinary method for disseminating research — publishing in a peer-reviewed journal — by \u003ca href=\"https://zika.labkey.com/project/OConnor/ZIKV-003/begin.view\" target=\"_blank\">posting their data\u003c/a> for both their colleagues and the public to see as soon as it comes in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That could be a problem.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I am aware that sharing \u003ca href=\"https://dholk.primate.wisc.edu/_webdav/dho/public/Zika/public/%40files/ultrasounds/827577/Placenta%20disk%202%20d0.jpg\" target=\"_blank\">ultrasound imagery\u003c/a> of developing macaques can elicit stronger emotions than looking at relatively sterile charts and tables. It certainly did for me and our staff who saw the first ultrasound today,\" \u003ca href=\"https://zika.labkey.com/announcements/OConnor/ZIKV-003/thread.view?rowId=32\" target=\"_blank\">O'Connor logged\u003c/a> on the lab's website.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I want to thank those who have viewed our data so far and have chosen not to use it out of context to further arguments against using animals in research.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_133119\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/futureofyou/wp-content/uploads/sites/13/2016/03/Monkey-ultrasound.jpg\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-133119\">\u003cimg class=\"size-medium wp-image-133119\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/futureofyou/wp-content/uploads/sites/13/2016/03/Monkey-ultrasound-800x598.jpg\" alt=\"This ultrasound shows the rhesus monkey fetus before the mother was injected with Zika two weeks ago. Researchers say ultrasounds show the fetus still appears healthy.\" width=\"800\" height=\"598\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/13/2016/03/Monkey-ultrasound-800x598.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/13/2016/03/Monkey-ultrasound-400x299.jpg 400w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/13/2016/03/Monkey-ultrasound-768x574.jpg 768w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/13/2016/03/Monkey-ultrasound-960x718.jpg 960w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/13/2016/03/Monkey-ultrasound.jpg 1158w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This ultrasound shows the rhesus monkey fetus before the mother was injected with Zika two weeks ago. Researchers say ultrasounds show the fetus still appears healthy. \u003ccite>(University of Wisconsin, Madison)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Last Thursday I asked him what he meant by \"taking data out of context.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignright\">‘The sad reality is that most of the research we conduct on animals never gets into the biomedical literature … That kind of retention of data fails to redeem the suffering and the sacrifice of animals in experiments.’\u003ccite>Biomedical ethicist Jonathan Kimmelman\u003c/cite>\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>\"The idea of making data from nonhuman primates available to the public is basically an invitation to disaster,\" he said, referring to the possibility that those who oppose animal research will use it in a propagandistic way. \"Just like if you were to take patient data out of the hospital and show images of surgeries or ultrasounds ... without the full context of how you ended up in that position. It can be visceral, it can be grotesque.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>O'Connor said that both he and Friedrich have had run-ins over the years with animal welfare activists.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Madison is a very progressive city,\" he said. \"We have a lot of people here who have very strong viewpoints, including a community of people who are pretty strongly against research on nonhuman primates in most contexts.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The issue of animal welfare has been a \u003ca href=\"https://www.google.com/search?q=animal+rights+university+of+wisconsin\" target=\"_blank\">flashpoint\u003c/a> at the university because of its status as a hub for animal research, and because it operates \u003ca href=\"https://www.primate.wisc.edu/\" target=\"_blank\">one \u003c/a>of seven \u003ca href=\"http://nprcresearch.org/primate/contact.php\" target=\"_blank\">national primate research centers\u003c/a>. In 2014, the school was \u003ca href=\"http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/education/on_campus/on-campus-uw-madison-fined-for-violations-of-animals-in/article_e6a3b4f5-31eb-5049-a105-4a97bc17ee4a.html\" target=\"_blank\">fined $35,000\u003c/a> by the U.S. Department of Agriculture for violations of the federal Animal Research Act.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The two scientists' experiences researching AIDS/HIV have colored their opinions about using animals.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignright\">'While we support effective and humane research in the search for vaccines and treatments for Zika virus, we have serious concerns regarding the use of monkeys and other animals for this purpose.'\u003ccite>Katy Taylor, Cruelty Free International\u003c/cite>\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>\"I like to remind people that, even though you don't hear about it as much today, there’s still about 6,000 people who get HIV every day around the world,\" O'Connor says. \"In the entire history of my lab and Tom’s lab and probably every other lab at this university ... we’re not going to use 6,000 monkeys in our entire scientific careers. So the idea that a small number of animals could have a profound effect on the health of a lot of people with HIV is something we came to terms with a long time ago.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Still, he said, injecting a pregnant monkey with the Zika virus was \"profound.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"As parents ourselves we are sensitive to the implications of studying mothers during pregnancy,\" he says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Friedrich said his first experiment as a Ph.D. student involved injecting monkeys with the simian immune deficiency virus, a retrovirus similar to HIV. \"I went back with the veterinarians to assist with the process. I wanted to take ownership of it and see what it was going to mean for those animals, and it was a hard thing to do.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Animal Welfare Group Opposed\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last month, Cruelty Free International, a London-based, anti-animal experimentation organization with roots going back to 1898, \u003ca href=\"https://www.crueltyfreeinternational.org/blog/pregnant-monkeys-be-infected-zika-virus-cruel-research\" target=\"_blank\">came out against\u003c/a> the experiments.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignright\">'While we support effective and humane research in the search for vaccines and treatments for Zika virus, we have serious concerns regarding the use of monkeys and other animals for this purpose.'\u003ccite>Katy Taylor, Cruelty Free International\u003c/cite>\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>“While we support effective and humane research in the search for vaccines and treatments for Zika virus, we have serious concerns regarding the use of monkeys and other animals for this purpose,\" said Katy Taylor, the organization's director of science. \"The poor relevance of using monkeys to study human disease and the greater relevance of human-based approaches, means that it is scientifically and morally indefensible to deliberately infect monkeys with Zika virus and/or to test therapies and vaccines on them.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Friedrich said using animals is the best way to get the most relevant data quickly, and that human trials would cause significant delay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"It will take a long time to enroll the number of people that would be required ... to conclude that it was statistically sound data that allows us to draw conclusions applicable to most infected people,\" he says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He says taking the necessary samples from a monkey wouldn't be feasible or ethical in humans. \"We might sample amniotic fluid from the infected [monkey] on a frequent basis and ask whether the virus gets into the amniotic fluid, and that’s just not something you can do in pregnant humans.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jonathan Kimmelman, an associate professor in the biomedical ethics unit of McGill University, says it's \"silly\" to dismiss research results gleaned from animals as irrelevant to humans.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"There are some animal experiments that are reasonably predictive of scenarios that will play out in human beings and some [that] aren’t.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Friedrich points to trials in monkeys that found pre-exposure prophylaxis drugs (PrEP) are effective in preventing infection in people who are later exposed to HIV.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"This result paved the way for clinical trials of PrEP in humans that were also extremely effective,\" he said in an email. The result: \u003ca href=\"http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/61/10/1604.full\" target=\"_blank\">Truvada\u003c/a>, approved by the FDA in 2012 as the first drug to prevent people from acquiring HIV.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>No Backlash -- Yet\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As of last week, the lab had yet to experience a significant backlash for their experiment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But, O'Connor said, \"I’m under no illusion that's going to continue indefinitely.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the meantime, at least one online criticism has emerged, on a website called \"\u003ca href=\"http://primateresearch.blogspot.com/2016/03/dave-oconnor-sad-and-heartbroken.html\" target=\"_blank\">Primate Freedom\u003c/a>,\" which attacks O'Connor for \"using and killing monkeys.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"His career rests squarely on their corpses,\" the post says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kimmelman, the bioethicist, says the researchers' public dissemination of their data is a strong mitigating factor in justifying these experiments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"The sad reality is that most of the research we conduct on animals never gets into the biomedical literature. The results are almost completely inaccessible,\" he says. \"That kind of retention of data fails to redeem the suffering and the sacrifice of animals in experiments.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The real-time data-sharing aspect of their research has so far been a big success, says Friedrich, with other scientists using their posted data and replicating the results, or collaborating on certain tests.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"We aren’t the only ones who have good ideas,\" he says. \"The more people who are thinking about this, especially in the context of an emergent public health crisis, the better.\"\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Dave O'Connor and Tom Friedrich discuss their decision to use animal experimentation in their quest to find answers about Zika virus.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1476934088,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":40,"wordCount":1525},"headData":{"title":"After Infecting Pregnant Monkey With Zika, Scientists Wait for Backlash | KQED","description":"Dave O'Connor and Tom Friedrich discuss their decision to use animal experimentation in their quest to find answers about Zika virus.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"After Infecting Pregnant Monkey With Zika, Scientists Wait for Backlash","datePublished":"2016-03-23T00:13:39.000Z","dateModified":"2016-10-20T03:28:08.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"disqusIdentifier":"132435 http://ww2.kqed.org/futureofyou/?p=132435","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/futureofyou/2016/03/22/after-infecting-pregnant-monkey-with-zika-scientists-wait-for-backlash/","disqusTitle":"After Infecting Pregnant Monkey With Zika, Scientists Wait for Backlash","path":"/futureofyou/132435/after-infecting-pregnant-monkey-with-zika-scientists-wait-for-backlash","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>We've all seen the \u003ca href=\"https://www.google.com/search?q=zika+microcephaly\" target=\"_blank\">media coverage\u003c/a> about the Zika virus' potentially \u003ca href=\"http://news.yahoo.com/brazil-says-confirmed-suspected-microcephaly-cases-rise-5-135759702.html\" target=\"_blank\">destructive effect\u003c/a> on newborns. The virus has sowed fear and loathing in parts of Latin America and the Caribbean, and now Puerto Rico is \u003ca href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/20/health/zika-virus-puerto-rico.html?_r=0\" target=\"_blank\">preparing for a nasty epidemic\u003c/a> that may result in hundreds of thousands of infections. The CDC has \u003ca href=\"http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/alert/zika-virus-puerto-rico\" target=\"_blank\">advised pregnant women\u003c/a> to avoid traveling to the island.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Two researchers who are working diligently to learn more about Zika are Dave O'Connor and Tom Friedrich. They are currently studying the virus' transmission from mother to fetus, in hopes of informing the public health response.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignright\">\"The idea of making data from nonhuman primates available to the public is basically an invitation to disaster.\"\u003ccite>Researcher Dave O'Connor\u003c/cite>\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>And yet, O'Connor and Friedrich have prepared themselves for the possibility, if not the probability, that some will not exactly view them as doing God’s own work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Why? Because they are using rhesus monkeys in their research. Two weeks ago, they deliberately infected a pregnant mother with the virus in order to observe its effect on the fetus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Posting Data in Real Time\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>O'Connor and Friedrich hope to answer important unknowns about the virus, including how long it's present after infection, where in the body besides the blood it exists, and what the likelihood is that an infected mother will pass it on to her offspring. They are also deviating from the ordinary method for disseminating research — publishing in a peer-reviewed journal — by \u003ca href=\"https://zika.labkey.com/project/OConnor/ZIKV-003/begin.view\" target=\"_blank\">posting their data\u003c/a> for both their colleagues and the public to see as soon as it comes in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That could be a problem.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I am aware that sharing \u003ca href=\"https://dholk.primate.wisc.edu/_webdav/dho/public/Zika/public/%40files/ultrasounds/827577/Placenta%20disk%202%20d0.jpg\" target=\"_blank\">ultrasound imagery\u003c/a> of developing macaques can elicit stronger emotions than looking at relatively sterile charts and tables. It certainly did for me and our staff who saw the first ultrasound today,\" \u003ca href=\"https://zika.labkey.com/announcements/OConnor/ZIKV-003/thread.view?rowId=32\" target=\"_blank\">O'Connor logged\u003c/a> on the lab's website.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"I want to thank those who have viewed our data so far and have chosen not to use it out of context to further arguments against using animals in research.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_133119\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/futureofyou/wp-content/uploads/sites/13/2016/03/Monkey-ultrasound.jpg\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-133119\">\u003cimg class=\"size-medium wp-image-133119\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/futureofyou/wp-content/uploads/sites/13/2016/03/Monkey-ultrasound-800x598.jpg\" alt=\"This ultrasound shows the rhesus monkey fetus before the mother was injected with Zika two weeks ago. Researchers say ultrasounds show the fetus still appears healthy.\" width=\"800\" height=\"598\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/13/2016/03/Monkey-ultrasound-800x598.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/13/2016/03/Monkey-ultrasound-400x299.jpg 400w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/13/2016/03/Monkey-ultrasound-768x574.jpg 768w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/13/2016/03/Monkey-ultrasound-960x718.jpg 960w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/13/2016/03/Monkey-ultrasound.jpg 1158w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This ultrasound shows the rhesus monkey fetus before the mother was injected with Zika two weeks ago. Researchers say ultrasounds show the fetus still appears healthy. \u003ccite>(University of Wisconsin, Madison)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Last Thursday I asked him what he meant by \"taking data out of context.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignright\">‘The sad reality is that most of the research we conduct on animals never gets into the biomedical literature … That kind of retention of data fails to redeem the suffering and the sacrifice of animals in experiments.’\u003ccite>Biomedical ethicist Jonathan Kimmelman\u003c/cite>\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>\"The idea of making data from nonhuman primates available to the public is basically an invitation to disaster,\" he said, referring to the possibility that those who oppose animal research will use it in a propagandistic way. \"Just like if you were to take patient data out of the hospital and show images of surgeries or ultrasounds ... without the full context of how you ended up in that position. It can be visceral, it can be grotesque.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>O'Connor said that both he and Friedrich have had run-ins over the years with animal welfare activists.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"Madison is a very progressive city,\" he said. \"We have a lot of people here who have very strong viewpoints, including a community of people who are pretty strongly against research on nonhuman primates in most contexts.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The issue of animal welfare has been a \u003ca href=\"https://www.google.com/search?q=animal+rights+university+of+wisconsin\" target=\"_blank\">flashpoint\u003c/a> at the university because of its status as a hub for animal research, and because it operates \u003ca href=\"https://www.primate.wisc.edu/\" target=\"_blank\">one \u003c/a>of seven \u003ca href=\"http://nprcresearch.org/primate/contact.php\" target=\"_blank\">national primate research centers\u003c/a>. In 2014, the school was \u003ca href=\"http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/education/on_campus/on-campus-uw-madison-fined-for-violations-of-animals-in/article_e6a3b4f5-31eb-5049-a105-4a97bc17ee4a.html\" target=\"_blank\">fined $35,000\u003c/a> by the U.S. Department of Agriculture for violations of the federal Animal Research Act.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The two scientists' experiences researching AIDS/HIV have colored their opinions about using animals.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignright\">'While we support effective and humane research in the search for vaccines and treatments for Zika virus, we have serious concerns regarding the use of monkeys and other animals for this purpose.'\u003ccite>Katy Taylor, Cruelty Free International\u003c/cite>\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>\"I like to remind people that, even though you don't hear about it as much today, there’s still about 6,000 people who get HIV every day around the world,\" O'Connor says. \"In the entire history of my lab and Tom’s lab and probably every other lab at this university ... we’re not going to use 6,000 monkeys in our entire scientific careers. So the idea that a small number of animals could have a profound effect on the health of a lot of people with HIV is something we came to terms with a long time ago.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Still, he said, injecting a pregnant monkey with the Zika virus was \"profound.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"As parents ourselves we are sensitive to the implications of studying mothers during pregnancy,\" he says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Friedrich said his first experiment as a Ph.D. student involved injecting monkeys with the simian immune deficiency virus, a retrovirus similar to HIV. \"I went back with the veterinarians to assist with the process. I wanted to take ownership of it and see what it was going to mean for those animals, and it was a hard thing to do.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Animal Welfare Group Opposed\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last month, Cruelty Free International, a London-based, anti-animal experimentation organization with roots going back to 1898, \u003ca href=\"https://www.crueltyfreeinternational.org/blog/pregnant-monkeys-be-infected-zika-virus-cruel-research\" target=\"_blank\">came out against\u003c/a> the experiments.\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignright\">'While we support effective and humane research in the search for vaccines and treatments for Zika virus, we have serious concerns regarding the use of monkeys and other animals for this purpose.'\u003ccite>Katy Taylor, Cruelty Free International\u003c/cite>\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>“While we support effective and humane research in the search for vaccines and treatments for Zika virus, we have serious concerns regarding the use of monkeys and other animals for this purpose,\" said Katy Taylor, the organization's director of science. \"The poor relevance of using monkeys to study human disease and the greater relevance of human-based approaches, means that it is scientifically and morally indefensible to deliberately infect monkeys with Zika virus and/or to test therapies and vaccines on them.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Friedrich said using animals is the best way to get the most relevant data quickly, and that human trials would cause significant delay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"It will take a long time to enroll the number of people that would be required ... to conclude that it was statistically sound data that allows us to draw conclusions applicable to most infected people,\" he says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He says taking the necessary samples from a monkey wouldn't be feasible or ethical in humans. \"We might sample amniotic fluid from the infected [monkey] on a frequent basis and ask whether the virus gets into the amniotic fluid, and that’s just not something you can do in pregnant humans.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jonathan Kimmelman, an associate professor in the biomedical ethics unit of McGill University, says it's \"silly\" to dismiss research results gleaned from animals as irrelevant to humans.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"There are some animal experiments that are reasonably predictive of scenarios that will play out in human beings and some [that] aren’t.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Friedrich points to trials in monkeys that found pre-exposure prophylaxis drugs (PrEP) are effective in preventing infection in people who are later exposed to HIV.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"This result paved the way for clinical trials of PrEP in humans that were also extremely effective,\" he said in an email. The result: \u003ca href=\"http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/61/10/1604.full\" target=\"_blank\">Truvada\u003c/a>, approved by the FDA in 2012 as the first drug to prevent people from acquiring HIV.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>No Backlash -- Yet\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As of last week, the lab had yet to experience a significant backlash for their experiment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But, O'Connor said, \"I’m under no illusion that's going to continue indefinitely.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the meantime, at least one online criticism has emerged, on a website called \"\u003ca href=\"http://primateresearch.blogspot.com/2016/03/dave-oconnor-sad-and-heartbroken.html\" target=\"_blank\">Primate Freedom\u003c/a>,\" which attacks O'Connor for \"using and killing monkeys.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"His career rests squarely on their corpses,\" the post says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kimmelman, the bioethicist, says the researchers' public dissemination of their data is a strong mitigating factor in justifying these experiments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"The sad reality is that most of the research we conduct on animals never gets into the biomedical literature. The results are almost completely inaccessible,\" he says. \"That kind of retention of data fails to redeem the suffering and the sacrifice of animals in experiments.\"\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The real-time data-sharing aspect of their research has so far been a big success, says Friedrich, with other scientists using their posted data and replicating the results, or collaborating on certain tests.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\"We aren’t the only ones who have good ideas,\" he says. \"The more people who are thinking about this, especially in the context of an emergent public health crisis, the better.\"\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/futureofyou/132435/after-infecting-pregnant-monkey-with-zika-scientists-wait-for-backlash","authors":["80"],"programs":["futureofyou_54"],"categories":["futureofyou_1062"],"tags":["futureofyou_827","futureofyou_826","futureofyou_80","futureofyou_825","futureofyou_753"],"featImg":"futureofyou_133082","label":"futureofyou_54"}},"programsReducer":{"possible":{"id":"possible","title":"Possible","info":"Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? Each episode also includes a short fiction story generated by advanced AI GPT-4, serving as a thought-provoking springboard to speculate how humanity could leverage technology for good.","airtime":"SUN 2pm","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Possible-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.possible.fm/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"Possible"},"link":"/radio/program/possible","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/possible/id1677184070","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/730YpdUSNlMyPQwNnyjp4k"}},"1a":{"id":"1a","title":"1A","info":"1A is home to the national conversation. 1A brings on great guests and frames the best debate in ways that make you think, share and engage.","airtime":"MON-THU 11pm-12am","imageSrc":"https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/1a.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://the1a.org/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"npr"},"link":"/radio/program/1a","subscribe":{"npr":"https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/RBrW","apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=1188724250&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/1A-p947376/","rss":"https://feeds.npr.org/510316/podcast.xml"}},"all-things-considered":{"id":"all-things-considered","title":"All Things Considered","info":"Every weekday, \u003cem>All Things Considered\u003c/em> hosts Robert Siegel, Audie Cornish, Ari Shapiro, and Kelly McEvers present the program's trademark mix of news, interviews, commentaries, reviews, and offbeat features. 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But is this once sleepy suburb ready for them?","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/American-Suburb-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"/news/series/american-suburb-podcast","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":"13"},"link":"/news/series/american-suburb-podcast/","subscribe":{"npr":"https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/RBrW","apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?mt=2&id=1287748328","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/American-Suburb-p1086805/","rss":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/series/american-suburb-podcast/feed/podcast","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkMzMDExODgxNjA5"}},"baycurious":{"id":"baycurious","title":"Bay Curious","tagline":"Exploring the Bay Area, one question at a time","info":"KQED’s new podcast, Bay Curious, gets to the bottom of the mysteries — both profound and peculiar — that give the Bay Area its unique identity. And we’ll do it with your help! You ask the questions. You decide what Bay Curious investigates. And you join us on the journey to find the answers.","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Bay-Curious-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","imageAlt":"\"KQED Bay Curious","officialWebsiteLink":"/news/series/baycurious","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":"4"},"link":"/podcasts/baycurious","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406","npr":"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious","rss":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/category/bay-curious-podcast/feed/podcast","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93dzIua3FlZC5vcmcvbmV3cy9jYXRlZ29yeS9iYXktY3VyaW91cy1wb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQvcG9kY2FzdA","stitcher":"https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/bay-curious","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/6O76IdmhixfijmhTZLIJ8k"}},"bbc-world-service":{"id":"bbc-world-service","title":"BBC World Service","info":"The day's top stories from BBC News compiled twice daily in the week, once at weekends.","airtime":"MON-FRI 9pm-10pm, TUE-FRI 1am-2am","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/BBC-World-Service-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_world_service","meta":{"site":"news","source":"BBC World Service"},"link":"/radio/program/bbc-world-service","subscribe":{"apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/global-news-podcast/id135067274?mt=2","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/BBC-World-Service-p455581/","rss":"https://podcasts.files.bbci.co.uk/p02nq0gn.rss"}},"code-switch-life-kit":{"id":"code-switch-life-kit","title":"Code Switch / Life Kit","info":"\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em>, which listeners will hear in the first part of the hour, has fearless and much-needed conversations about race. Hosted by journalists of color, the show tackles the subject of race head-on, exploring how it impacts every part of society — from politics and pop culture to history, sports and more.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em>, which will be in the second part of the hour, guides you through spaces and feelings no one prepares you for — from finances to mental health, from workplace microaggressions to imposter syndrome, from relationships to parenting. The show features experts with real world experience and shares their knowledge. 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You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","imageAlt":"KQED MindShift: How We Will Learn","officialWebsiteLink":"/mindshift/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":"2"},"link":"/podcasts/mindshift","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mindshift-podcast/id1078765985","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5","npr":"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/464615685/mind-shift-podcast","stitcher":"https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/stories-teachers-share","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/0MxSpNYZKNprFLCl7eEtyx"}},"morning-edition":{"id":"morning-edition","title":"Morning Edition","info":"\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. Hosts Steve Inskeep, David Greene and Rachel Martin bring you the latest breaking news and features to prepare you for the day.","airtime":"MON-FRI 3am-9am","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Morning-Edition-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.npr.org/programs/morning-edition/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"npr"},"link":"/radio/program/morning-edition"},"onourwatch":{"id":"onourwatch","title":"On Our Watch","tagline":"Police secrets, unsealed","info":"For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/On-Our-Watch-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","imageAlt":"On Our Watch from NPR and KQED","officialWebsiteLink":"/podcasts/onourwatch","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":"1"},"link":"/podcasts/onourwatch","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1567098962","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5ucHIub3JnLzUxMDM2MC9wb2RjYXN0LnhtbD9zYz1nb29nbGVwb2RjYXN0cw","npr":"https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/onourwatch","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/0OLWoyizopu6tY1XiuX70x","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/On-Our-Watch-p1436229/","stitcher":"https://www.stitcher.com/show/on-our-watch","rss":"https://feeds.npr.org/510360/podcast.xml"}},"on-the-media":{"id":"on-the-media","title":"On The Media","info":"Our weekly podcast explores how the media 'sausage' is made, casts an incisive eye on fluctuations in the marketplace of ideas, and examines threats to the freedom of information and expression in America and abroad. For one hour a week, the show tries to lift the veil from the process of \"making media,\" especially news media, because it's through that lens that we see the world and the world sees us","airtime":"SUN 2pm-3pm, MON 12am-1am","imageSrc":"https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/onTheMedia.png","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/otm","meta":{"site":"news","source":"wnyc"},"link":"/radio/program/on-the-media","subscribe":{"apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/on-the-media/id73330715?mt=2","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/On-the-Media-p69/","rss":"http://feeds.wnyc.org/onthemedia"}},"our-body-politic":{"id":"our-body-politic","title":"Our Body Politic","info":"Presented by KQED, KCRW and KPCC, and created and hosted by award-winning journalist Farai Chideya, Our Body Politic is unapologetically centered on reporting on not just how women of color experience the major political events of today, but how they’re impacting those very issues.","airtime":"SAT 6pm-7pm, SUN 1am-2am","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Our-Body-Politic-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://our-body-politic.simplecast.com/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kcrw"},"link":"/radio/program/our-body-politic","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/our-body-politic/id1533069868","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9feGFQaHMxcw","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/4ApAiLT1kV153TttWAmqmc","rss":"https://feeds.simplecast.com/_xaPhs1s","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/podcasts/News--Politics-Podcasts/Our-Body-Politic-p1369211/"}},"pbs-newshour":{"id":"pbs-newshour","title":"PBS NewsHour","info":"Analysis, background reports and updates from the PBS NewsHour putting today's news in context.","airtime":"MON-FRI 3pm-4pm","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/PBS-News-Hour-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.pbs.org/newshour/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"pbs"},"link":"/radio/program/pbs-newshour","subscribe":{"apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/pbs-newshour-full-show/id394432287?mt=2","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/PBS-NewsHour---Full-Show-p425698/","rss":"https://www.pbs.org/newshour/feeds/rss/podcasts/show"}},"perspectives":{"id":"perspectives","title":"Perspectives","tagline":"KQED's series of of daily listener commentaries since 1991","info":"KQED's series of of daily listener commentaries since 1991.","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Perspectives-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"/perspectives/","meta":{"site":"radio","source":"kqed","order":"15"},"link":"/perspectives","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id73801135","npr":"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/432309616/perspectives","rss":"https://ww2.kqed.org/perspectives/category/perspectives/feed/","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93dzIua3FlZC5vcmcvcGVyc3BlY3RpdmVzL2NhdGVnb3J5L3BlcnNwZWN0aXZlcy9mZWVkLw"}},"planet-money":{"id":"planet-money","title":"Planet Money","info":"The economy explained. 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