window.__IS_SSR__=true
window.__INITIAL_STATE__={
"attachmentsReducer": {
"audio_0": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "audio_0",
"imgSizes": {
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/themes/KQED-unified/img/audio_bgs/background0.jpg"
}
}
},
"audio_1": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "audio_1",
"imgSizes": {
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/themes/KQED-unified/img/audio_bgs/background1.jpg"
}
}
},
"audio_2": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "audio_2",
"imgSizes": {
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/themes/KQED-unified/img/audio_bgs/background2.jpg"
}
}
},
"audio_3": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "audio_3",
"imgSizes": {
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/themes/KQED-unified/img/audio_bgs/background3.jpg"
}
}
},
"audio_4": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "audio_4",
"imgSizes": {
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/themes/KQED-unified/img/audio_bgs/background4.jpg"
}
}
},
"placeholder": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "placeholder",
"imgSizes": {
"thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-160x107.jpg",
"width": 160,
"height": 107,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"medium": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-800x533.jpg",
"width": 800,
"height": 533,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"medium_large": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-768x512.jpg",
"width": 768,
"height": 512,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"large": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-1020x680.jpg",
"width": 1020,
"height": 680,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"1536x1536": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-1536x1024.jpg",
"width": 1536,
"height": 1024,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"fd-lrg": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-1536x1024.jpg",
"width": 1536,
"height": 1024,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"fd-med": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-1020x680.jpg",
"width": 1020,
"height": 680,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"fd-sm": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-800x533.jpg",
"width": 800,
"height": 533,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"post-thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-672x372.jpg",
"width": 672,
"height": 372,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"twentyfourteen-full-width": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-1038x576.jpg",
"width": 1038,
"height": 576,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"xxsmall": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-160x107.jpg",
"width": 160,
"height": 107,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"xsmall": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-672x372.jpg",
"width": 672,
"height": 372,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"small": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-672x372.jpg",
"width": 672,
"height": 372,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"xlarge": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-1020x680.jpg",
"width": 1020,
"height": 680,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"full-width": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1-1920x1280.jpg",
"width": 1920,
"height": 1280,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"guest-author-32": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-1333x1333-1-160x160.jpg",
"width": 32,
"height": 32,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"guest-author-50": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-1333x1333-1-160x160.jpg",
"width": 50,
"height": 50,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"guest-author-64": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-1333x1333-1-160x160.jpg",
"width": 64,
"height": 64,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"guest-author-96": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-1333x1333-1-160x160.jpg",
"width": 96,
"height": 96,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"guest-author-128": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-1333x1333-1-160x160.jpg",
"width": 128,
"height": 128,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"detail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-1333x1333-1-160x160.jpg",
"width": 160,
"height": 160,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/KQED-Default-Image-816638274-2000x1333-1.jpg",
"width": 2000,
"height": 1333
}
}
},
"root-site_21235": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "root-site_21235",
"meta": {
"index": "attachments_1716263798",
"site": "root-site",
"id": "21235",
"found": true
},
"parent": 0,
"imgSizes": {
"twentyfourteen-full-width": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Newsletter-MindShift-Desktop-440x550@2x-880x576.png",
"width": 880,
"mimeType": "image/png",
"height": 576
},
"thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Newsletter-MindShift-Desktop-440x550@2x-160x200.png",
"width": 160,
"mimeType": "image/png",
"height": 200
},
"post-thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Newsletter-MindShift-Desktop-440x550@2x-672x372.png",
"width": 672,
"mimeType": "image/png",
"height": 372
},
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Newsletter-MindShift-Desktop-440x550@2x.png",
"width": 880,
"height": 1100
},
"medium": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Newsletter-MindShift-Desktop-440x550@2x-800x1000.png",
"width": 800,
"mimeType": "image/png",
"height": 1000
},
"medium_large": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Newsletter-MindShift-Desktop-440x550@2x-768x960.png",
"width": 768,
"mimeType": "image/png",
"height": 960
}
},
"publishDate": 1657013188,
"modified": 1657013188,
"caption": null,
"description": null,
"title": "Newsletter-MindShift-Desktop-440x550@2x",
"credit": null,
"status": "inherit",
"altTag": null,
"fetchFailed": false,
"isLoading": false
},
"mindshift_65966": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "mindshift_65966",
"meta": {
"index": "attachments_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "65966",
"found": true
},
"title": "Raising Awe Seekers Cover",
"publishDate": 1762891385,
"status": "inherit",
"parent": 65961,
"modified": 1762891421,
"caption": null,
"credit": "Courtesy of Deborah Farmer Kris ",
"altTag": "Book jacket next to author photo",
"description": null,
"imgSizes": {
"thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/11/Raising-Awe-Seekers-Cover-160x112.png",
"width": 160,
"height": 112,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"medium_large": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/11/Raising-Awe-Seekers-Cover-768x536.png",
"width": 768,
"height": 536,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"1536x1536": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/11/Raising-Awe-Seekers-Cover-1536x1072.png",
"width": 1536,
"height": 1072,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"post-thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/11/Raising-Awe-Seekers-Cover-672x372.png",
"width": 672,
"height": 372,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"twentyfourteen-full-width": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/11/Raising-Awe-Seekers-Cover-1038x576.png",
"width": 1038,
"height": 576,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"npr-cds-wide": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/11/Raising-Awe-Seekers-Cover-1200x675.png",
"width": 1200,
"height": 675,
"mimeType": "image/png"
},
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/11/Raising-Awe-Seekers-Cover.png",
"width": 1748,
"height": 1220
}
},
"fetchFailed": false,
"isLoading": false
},
"mindshift_65775": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "mindshift_65775",
"meta": {
"index": "attachments_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "65775",
"found": true
},
"title": "Composite photo collage of two hands people hold colorful bubble communication speech notification mind isolated on painted background",
"publishDate": 1757368238,
"status": "inherit",
"parent": 65767,
"modified": 1757368264,
"caption": null,
"credit": "Deagreez/ iStock",
"altTag": "Composite photo collage of two hands people hold colorful bubble communication speech notification mind isolated on painted background.",
"description": null,
"imgSizes": {
"medium": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/dialogue-2000x1333.jpg",
"width": 2000,
"height": 1333,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"large": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/dialogue-2000x1333.jpg",
"width": 2000,
"height": 1333,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/dialogue-160x107.jpg",
"width": 160,
"height": 107,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"medium_large": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/dialogue-768x512.jpg",
"width": 768,
"height": 512,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"1536x1536": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/dialogue-1536x1024.jpg",
"width": 1536,
"height": 1024,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"2048x2048": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/dialogue-2048x1365.jpg",
"width": 2048,
"height": 1365,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"post-thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/dialogue-672x372.jpg",
"width": 672,
"height": 372,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"twentyfourteen-full-width": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/dialogue-1038x576.jpg",
"width": 1038,
"height": 576,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"full-width": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/dialogue-2000x1333.jpg",
"width": 2000,
"height": 1333,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/dialogue.jpg",
"width": 2121,
"height": 1414
}
},
"fetchFailed": false,
"isLoading": false
},
"mindshift_65726": {
"type": "attachments",
"id": "mindshift_65726",
"meta": {
"index": "attachments_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "65726",
"found": true
},
"title": null,
"publishDate": 1755714722,
"status": "inherit",
"parent": 65725,
"modified": 1755714750,
"caption": null,
"credit": "raduga21/ iStock",
"altTag": "rainbow bracelet from threads on a background of blue sky",
"description": null,
"imgSizes": {
"medium": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/08/friendship-bracelet-2000x1331.jpg",
"width": 2000,
"height": 1331,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"large": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/08/friendship-bracelet-2000x1331.jpg",
"width": 2000,
"height": 1331,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/08/friendship-bracelet-160x106.jpg",
"width": 160,
"height": 106,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"medium_large": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/08/friendship-bracelet-768x511.jpg",
"width": 768,
"height": 511,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"1536x1536": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/08/friendship-bracelet-1536x1022.jpg",
"width": 1536,
"height": 1022,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"2048x2048": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/08/friendship-bracelet-2048x1363.jpg",
"width": 2048,
"height": 1363,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"post-thumbnail": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/08/friendship-bracelet-672x372.jpg",
"width": 672,
"height": 372,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"twentyfourteen-full-width": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/08/friendship-bracelet-1038x576.jpg",
"width": 1038,
"height": 576,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"full-width": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/08/friendship-bracelet-2000x1331.jpg",
"width": 2000,
"height": 1331,
"mimeType": "image/jpeg"
},
"kqedFullSize": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/08/friendship-bracelet-e1755714773576.jpg",
"width": 1920,
"height": 1278
}
},
"fetchFailed": false,
"isLoading": false
}
},
"audioPlayerReducer": {
"postId": "stream_live",
"isPaused": true,
"isPlaying": false,
"pfsActive": false,
"pledgeModalIsOpen": true,
"playerDrawerIsOpen": false
},
"authorsReducer": {
"ksung": {
"type": "authors",
"id": "4596",
"meta": {
"index": "authors_1716337520",
"id": "4596",
"found": true
},
"name": "Ki Sung",
"firstName": "Ki",
"lastName": "Sung",
"slug": "ksung",
"email": "ksung@kqed.org",
"display_author_email": false,
"staff_mastheads": [
"news"
],
"title": "KQED Contributor",
"bio": "Ki Sung is Managing Editor of Digital News at KQED. She is former Senior Editor of MindShift and worked at NPR before joining KQED in 2014.",
"avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4ab131bca80bafb89a073bf2348fce93?s=600&d=blank&r=g",
"twitter": null,
"facebook": null,
"instagram": null,
"linkedin": null,
"sites": [
{
"site": "news",
"roles": [
"editor"
]
},
{
"site": "mindshift",
"roles": [
"administrator"
]
},
{
"site": "elections",
"roles": [
"administrator"
]
}
],
"headData": {
"title": "Ki Sung | KQED",
"description": "KQED Contributor",
"ogImgSrc": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4ab131bca80bafb89a073bf2348fce93?s=600&d=blank&r=g",
"twImgSrc": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4ab131bca80bafb89a073bf2348fce93?s=600&d=blank&r=g"
},
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/author/ksung"
},
"ngobir": {
"type": "authors",
"id": "11721",
"meta": {
"index": "authors_1716337520",
"id": "11721",
"found": true
},
"name": "Nimah Gobir",
"firstName": "Nimah",
"lastName": "Gobir",
"slug": "ngobir",
"email": "ngobir@kqed.org",
"display_author_email": false,
"staff_mastheads": [],
"title": "KQED Contributor",
"bio": null,
"avatar": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/e08e101e43fc79cc7bcd0c19038d7d08?s=600&d=blank&r=g",
"twitter": null,
"facebook": null,
"instagram": null,
"linkedin": null,
"sites": [
{
"site": "mindshift",
"roles": [
"editor"
]
}
],
"headData": {
"title": "Nimah Gobir | KQED",
"description": "KQED Contributor",
"ogImgSrc": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/e08e101e43fc79cc7bcd0c19038d7d08?s=600&d=blank&r=g",
"twImgSrc": "https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/e08e101e43fc79cc7bcd0c19038d7d08?s=600&d=blank&r=g"
},
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/author/ngobir"
}
},
"breakingNewsReducer": {},
"pagesReducer": {
"root-site_mindshift-podcasts": {
"type": "pages",
"id": "root-site_21553",
"meta": {
"index": "pages_1716337520",
"site": "root-site",
"id": "21553",
"score": 0
},
"parent": 0,
"pageMeta": {
"excludeFromSiteSearch": "Include",
"sticky": false,
"adSlotOverride": "kqed300x250_mindshift",
"WpPageTemplate": "page-podcast"
},
"labelTerm": {
"site": ""
},
"blocks": [
{
"innerHTML": "",
"blockName": "kqed/hero",
"innerContent": [],
"innerBlocks": [],
"attrs": {
"backgroundImageAlt": "MindShift",
"titleLayout": "svg",
"titleSVG": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Mindshift-Logotype@2x.png",
"hasSponsorLogo": true,
"blurbImageUrl": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"blurb": "It’s easy to see a child’s education as a path determined by grades, test scores and extracurricular activities. But genuine learning is about so much more than the points schools tally. MindShift explores the future of education by highlighting the innovative – and sometimes counterintuitive – ways educators are helping all children succeed. \u003cbr>\u003cbr>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Visit MindShift's blog\u003c/a>",
"previewID": "mindshift_43474",
"blurbImageAlt": "MindShift",
"backgroundImageUrl": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Banner-2560x1000-1.jpg"
}
},
{
"innerHTML": "",
"blockName": "kqed/post-list",
"innerContent": [],
"innerBlocks": [],
"attrs": {
"layout": "cardsRecent",
"sizeBase": 6,
"seeMore": true,
"sizeSeeMore": 6,
"query": "posts?category=mindshiftpodcast&queryId=b3d9b8b61d",
"title": "Episodes"
}
},
{
"innerHTML": "",
"blockName": "kqed/listen-and-subscribe",
"innerContent": [],
"innerBlocks": [],
"attrs": []
},
{
"innerHTML": "",
"blockName": "kqed/email-signup",
"innerContent": [],
"innerBlocks": [],
"attrs": {
"newsletterSlug": "mindshift"
}
},
{
"innerHTML": "\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-biographies\">\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003c/div>\n",
"blockName": "kqed/biographies",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-biographies\">",
null,
"\n\n",
null,
"\n\n",
null,
"\n\n",
null,
"\u003c/div>\n"
],
"innerBlocks": [
{
"innerHTML": "",
"blockName": "kqed/biographies-item",
"innerContent": [],
"innerBlocks": [],
"attrs": {
"mediaURL": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/77/2021/06/ksung-1178x1178-1.jpg",
"name": "Ki Sung",
"link": "/author/ksung",
"bio": "Ki is the senior editor of MindShift. Prior to joining MindShift in 2014, she was a digital news trainer at NPR, where she gained valuable lessons about how people learn and the support needed to implement change. She cares deeply about finding solutions that help children and loves meeting educators who create meaningful learning experiences for their students. At KQED, she leads diversity, equity and inclusion efforts and spearheaded our first source audit. She makes incredible kimchi, writes fiction and dreams of hiking the Camino de Santiago.",
"mediaAlt": "Ki Sung",
"position": "Podcast host/Senior editor"
}
},
{
"innerHTML": "",
"blockName": "kqed/biographies-item",
"innerContent": [],
"innerBlocks": [],
"attrs": {
"mediaURL": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/77/2021/06/ngobir-1920x1920-1.jpg",
"name": "Nimah Gobir",
"link": "/author/ngobir",
"bio": "Nimah is a writer and producer for MindShift. She has worked with young learners in many capacities including teacher, curriculum developer, and youth media producer. Each role offered a window into the different ways caregivers and educators strive to meet children’s needs and promote meaningful learning experiences in and out of the classroom. Nimah is committed to exploring stories about how to make learning more equitable, accessible, and magical for all students.",
"mediaAlt": "Nimah Gobir",
"position": "Podcast host/Writer"
}
},
{
"innerHTML": "",
"blockName": "kqed/biographies-item",
"innerContent": [],
"innerBlocks": [],
"attrs": {
"mediaURL": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/1104221619p-1.jpg",
"name": "Chris Hambrick",
"link": "",
"bio": "Chris is an editor for KQED Podcasts and loves holding the big picture vision for shows. Previously they were a producer for \u003cem>Spooked\u003c/em> Podcast from Snap Judgment Studios, host for \u003cem>The Tracklist\u003c/em> on KGPC, as well as \u003cem>White Rabbit Story Hour \u003c/em>podcast. They have contributed to KALW, KQED’s Bay Curious, and facilitated for national oral history project, \u003cem>StoryCorps.\u003c/em> Sometimes, if you’re lucky, you can catch her telling stories on the\u003cem> Mortified\u003c/em>, \u003cem>SFLitCrawl \u003c/em>or \u003cem>Moth\u003c/em> stages.",
"mediaAlt": "Chris Hambrick",
"position": "Editor"
}
},
{
"innerHTML": "",
"blockName": "kqed/biographies-item",
"innerContent": [],
"innerBlocks": [],
"attrs": {
"mediaURL": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/77/2021/06/seth-853x853-1.jpg",
"name": "Seth Samuel",
"bio": "Seth is a six-time Emmy Award-winning composer and sound designer. He is the score composer for PBS and KQED’s video series \u003cem>Deep Look\u003c/em>, composer for the podcast \u003cem>Against The Rules With Michael Lewis\u003c/em>; and the sound designer for podcasts from KQED, KALW, CPR, Radiotopia, Mother Jones, and Al Jazeera. He lives in Denver, Colorado with his brilliant wife, his brilliant son, his brilliant Australian shepherd, and their latest foster cat (the intelligence of which varies from cat to cat).",
"mediaAlt": "Seth Samuel",
"position": "Sound Designer"
}
}
],
"attrs": {
"bioType": "white",
"heading": "MindShift Team"
}
},
{
"innerHTML": "",
"blockName": "kqed/programs",
"innerContent": [],
"innerBlocks": [],
"attrs": {
"programIDs": [
"baycurious",
"truthbetold",
"rightnowish",
"politicalbreakdown",
"soldout",
"thebay"
],
"title": "We Also Recommend"
}
},
{
"innerHTML": "",
"blockName": "kqed/ad",
"innerContent": [],
"innerBlocks": [],
"attrs": []
},
{
"innerHTML": "",
"blockName": "kqed/funding-credits",
"innerContent": [],
"innerBlocks": [],
"attrs": {
"text": "Support for MindShift is provided by the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, sponsors and the members of KQED."
}
}
],
"publishDate": 1669753343,
"title": "MindShift | Podcasts",
"pagePath": "mindshift-podcasts",
"headTitle": "MindShift | Podcasts | KQED",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-biographies\">\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
"modified": 1713223244,
"headData": {
"twImgId": "",
"twTitle": "",
"socialTitle": "MindShift Podcast - Future of Learning and Raising Kids | KQED",
"canonicalUrl": "https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/mindshift",
"ogTitle": "",
"ogImgId": "",
"twDescription": "",
"description": "Explore the future of learning and parenting on MindShift, a podcast by KQED. Gain valuable insights into raising kids in a changing world.",
"socialDescription": "Explore the future of learning and parenting on MindShift, a podcast by KQED. Gain valuable insights into raising kids in a changing world.",
"title": "MindShift Podcast - Future of Learning and Raising Kids | KQED",
"ogDescription": "",
"schema": {
"@context": "https://schema.org",
"@type": "PodcastSeries",
"name": "MindShift | Podcasts",
"description": "Explore the future of learning and parenting on MindShift, a podcast by KQED. Gain valuable insights into raising kids in a changing world.",
"url": "https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/mindshift",
"image": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"inLanguage": "en-US",
"publisher": {
"@type": "NewsMediaOrganization",
"@id": "https://www.kqed.org/#organization",
"name": "KQED",
"logo": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png",
"url": "https://www.kqed.org",
"sameAs": [
"https://www.facebook.com/KQED",
"https://twitter.com/KQED",
"https://www.instagram.com/kqed/",
"https://www.tiktok.com/@kqedofficial",
"https://www.linkedin.com/company/kqed",
"https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeC0IOo7i1P_61zVUWbJ4nw"
]
}
},
"imageData": {
"ogImageSize": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"width": 1200,
"height": 630
},
"twImageSize": {
"file": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg"
},
"twitterCard": "summary_large_image"
}
},
"slug": "mindshift-podcasts",
"status": "publish",
"format": "standard",
"path": "/podcasts/mindshift",
"redirect": {
"type": "internal",
"url": "/podcasts/mindshift"
},
"audioTrackLength": null,
"parsedContent": [
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-kqed-biographies\">\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
},
{
"type": "component",
"content": "",
"name": "ad",
"attributes": {
"named": {
"label": "fullwidth"
},
"numeric": [
"fullwidth"
]
}
},
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
}
],
"featImg": "root-site_21235",
"label": "root-site",
"isLoading": false
}
},
"postsReducer": {
"stream_live": {
"type": "live",
"id": "stream_live",
"audioUrl": "https://streams.kqed.org/kqedradio",
"title": "Live Stream",
"excerpt": "Live Stream information currently unavailable.",
"link": "/radio",
"featImg": "",
"label": {
"name": "KQED Live",
"link": "/"
}
},
"stream_kqedNewscast": {
"type": "posts",
"id": "stream_kqedNewscast",
"audioUrl": "https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/RDnews/newscast.mp3?_=1",
"title": "KQED Newscast",
"featImg": "",
"label": {
"name": "88.5 FM",
"link": "/"
}
},
"mindshift_65961": {
"type": "posts",
"id": "mindshift_65961",
"meta": {
"index": "posts_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "65961",
"score": null,
"sort": [
1762945248000
]
},
"guestAuthors": [],
"slug": "deborah-farmer-kris-how-awe-helps-us-flourish",
"title": "Deborah Farmer Kris: How Awe Helps Us Flourish",
"publishDate": 1762945248,
"format": "audio",
"headTitle": "Deborah Farmer Kris: How Awe Helps Us Flourish | KQED",
"labelTerm": {
"term": 21847,
"site": "mindshift"
},
"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In recent years, educators and academics have studied many aspects of how students learn. The role of grit, resilience and growth mindset, for example, have been closely studied and strategies to develop them widely shared.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Additionally, the connection between \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/45201/why-emotions-are-integral-to-learning\">emotions and learning\u003c/a> has acquired more attention, as has the role of \u003ca href=\"https://ggsc.berkeley.edu/images/uploads/GGSC-JTF_White_Paper-Awe_FINAL.pdf\">awe in human development\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>K-12 educator Deborah Farmer Kris wrote about the benefits of awe in our daily lives in her book, “\u003ca href=\"https://www.teachercreatedmaterials.com/products/raising-awe-seekers-how-the-science-of-wonder-helps-our-kids-thrive-153673\">Raising Awe Seekers: How The Science of Wonder Helps our Kids Thrive,\u003c/a>” and joined the MindShift Podcast to talk about her surprising findings. She also has tips on how to\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/65520/how-experiencing-wonder-helps-kids-learn\"> cultivate awe in children and adults\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And as someone who has taught for two decades, she has advice on what educators can do to find the wonder in subjects they teach several times a day, year over year, to a large number of students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC9148141574\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Welcome to the MindShift Podcast where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Ki Sung. Today I’m speaking to longtime MindShift contributor Debra Farmer Kris. She’s a child development expert and author of the book, “\u003ca href=\"https://www.teachercreatedmaterials.com/products/raising-awe-seekers-how-the-science-of-wonder-helps-our-kids-thrive-153673\">Raising Awe Seekers: How The Science of Wonder Helps our Kids Thrive\u003c/a>.” During the depths of pandemic-era parenting, Deborah Farmer Kris discovered that awe is an often overlooked but powerful emotion. We’ll discuss how parents and educators can use awe to drive engagement with classroom materials and connection with the world around us. That conversation, coming up right after this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>Let’s start by diving right into the title of your book, “Raising Awe Seekers.” We hear the word awe and its variations like awesome all the time, but let’s take a step back and have you define for us what awe is and why it’s important for human development.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deborah Farmer Kris :\u003c/strong> So first awe is an emotion, and that is important because as an emotion, it is something we can feel, uh, and we can recognize when we’re feeling it. And so when you look at emotions, um, you have kind of your core four, like happy, mad, sad, scared, and you have variations of those. So underneath mad, you might have irate or frustrated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Awe is more of a subset of surprise and a is what you feel when you encounter something that is vast. That is, um, wondrous, that is beyond your ordinary frame of reference. You might see something new that moves you, that touches you, that excites you. And the way researchers often talk about how you know you’re feeling it is things like, uh, chills or goosebumps for some people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Um, maybe your eyes involuntarily spring you with tears, uh, the sound. Wow. Or whoa, you know, you have somebody choose a half court shot and it goes in and people aren’t saying That was an amazing shot. Now they’re making a all guttural sound of Wow. And I think for children as a, as an educator and as a parent, I would put in that category, this wide eyes that it’s almost like they want to absorb what they’re seeing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The really neat thing about this particular emotion is that there is a wealth of research, uh, about 25 years now, most of it out of the \u003ca href=\"https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/topic/awe\">Greater Good Science Center at University of California Berkeley\u003c/a>,\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>and it turns out that, most good things we want for our kids from, uh, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/38260/whats-going-on-inside-the-brain-of-a-curious-child\">curiosity and cognitive development\u003c/a> to a sense of mental and emotional wellness, to a sense of connectedness, awe supports all of those outcomes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> it’s interesting that the research has been out for 25 years or around for 25 years because, you know, we see a lot of different types of behaviors getting academic and media scrutiny, like, you know, the popular ones :grit, resilience, anxiety, growth, mindset, but all doesn’t quite get as much attention. Do you know why?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deborah Farmer Kris :\u003c/strong> You know, I think there wasn’t really the popularized book for the moment, you know, \u003ca href=\"https://ggsc.berkeley.edu/images/uploads/GGSC-JTF_White_Paper-Awe_FINAL.pdf\">Dacher Keltner\u003c/a>, who’s the main researcher on this, one of the lead ones, a year and a half ago, came out with a \u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Awe-Science-Everyday-Wonder-Transform/dp/1984879685\">wonderful book\u003c/a> that has been getting more press.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So I think awe is beginning to have a bit of a moment now. But before then you had to kind of be like me, the, the kind of the nerd looking through the journals and looking through the articles and, you know, I was always kind of, because I write for Mind Shift and other sources on the lookout for good research that could be translated, for teachers and parents. And so while it was there, it really hadn’t had its, um, you know it, it’s social moment yet, and I think hopefully we’re at the beginnings of that right now\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> What does awe have to do with, say, being able to pay attention in class, especially for kids who are overscheduled or have a high amount of screen time?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deborah Farmer Kris :\u003c/strong> Mm-hmm. So where awe is really helpful. Academically is that it is highly correlated with curiosity. And one thing we know about curiosity from reams of research is that curiosity is a key indicator of academic success. ’cause it relates to internal motivation. I mean, think about it. You have curious about something, you want to learn it, you’re motivated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Um, and so the link between awe and curiosity is just really tight because you see something you don’t understand. And awe is often related to this wow moment of, you know, I’m, I’m looking at these stars and I’m wondering, I have these, I, I wish I knew more. And that feeling, that curiosity is what propels kids to, to want to learn. And one of the really cool pieces of research that I describe in the book was that when you’re curious about something, it actually primes the brain to remember things. And I, I think about this often with very young children, how you might have a 4-year-old who can memorize the names of all the dinosaurs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So they might be talking about the diplodocus. But they might be struggling with some of their other more basic vocabulary, but because their interest level is so high, they are primed to remember. And so really deep learning often happens at this intersection of, you know, of focus and interest. And so, um, one of the things they have.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Researchers have also found is that when the brain is primed with curiosity on wonder that even say 30 minutes later when you’re engaged in an activity that’s not as interesting, not as awe inspiring, your brain is still primed to learn. And so that gets me thinking about how it maybe a class is organized, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So am I doing something at the beginning of class that’s really capturing the imagination or the wonder, um, or the curiosity of students, uh. To prime their brain to remember something that later in the class may be important, but not necessarily as, um, wondrous for them. And so I think this is an interesting way for us to think about students who may not be as engaged,\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If they’re not as engaged in everything, can we find the one thing? Can we find the thing that excites them, that sparks that awe, that lights them up, and use that as kind of a foundation for other academic learning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> I wanna talk about parents real quick. Um, when you talk about wonder, I don’t know if I have time for it, because we’re literally so busy. Um, what is the benefit of making the time to wonder, um, how should I exercise restraint in not wanting to rush, Um, tell me how to restrain myself.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deborah Farmer Kris :\u003c/strong> So researching awe has absolutely in subtle but profound ways transformed how I parent my kids, um, partly because it has made me more attentive to the world around me. Many of the sources of awe are deeply tied to our sensory system, so sounds, sight, smells, what we’re taking in. One of the great things about awe that you, you don’t need to go to the Sistine Chapel or the Grand Canyon, that it’s a very everyday ordinary emotion, and it’s more about putting ourselves in, in the path of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So for me as a parent, the first thing I had to do was make sure I was making some space for it myself. And the simplest way I, I did this, um, was by adopting, um, one of the practices from research, which was taking an a walk. Now I have a dog, so I am outside with the dog at least three times a day, usually morning, midday, and evening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And I made the decision that one of those. Times I was outside, even for five or 10 minutes, I would not have my phone on, I would not be listening to music. I would just be paying attention. I’d be looking up, uh, I would be looking at the trees. Um, and I, I, I literally call it my awe walk, right? Five minutes a day, 10 minutes a day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And I noticed that. Over the course of nearly two years now, this has transformed my relationship with my neighborhood. And I don’t just mean my neighbors, although being outside has helped me connect with them. But the trees, the, the birds who I really didn’t even notice were in the neighborhood. And now I can identify so many of them, the, the changing of the seasons.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Um, and then I made the very conscious decision as a parent that when I did notice these things, I was going to be more active about sharing them. Uh, and that means that, you know, if I hear a story that of say a human being kind or brave, which is a key source of awe and wonder. Um, I’m gonna talk to my kids about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Um, if I see a really beautiful sunset, I am going to be the mom who says, come out and look. Just the other day we were driving home and there was a incredible double rainbow. And I pulled over, I was driving my son home from piano lessons and behind me another parent pulled over with their four or 5-year-old and the two of us were standing out there with our two children in the drizzling rain looking at this gorgeous rainbow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And I just, you know, thought this was a moment where it’s gonna take me two minutes longer to get home, but this will be something my child remembers where typically a drive home you don’t remember. so it, it’s really not about the big experience, it’s about the little moments in the day of the song, the what you see, the smell that you pause, you notice, and then you take the next step to share.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Uh, because one of the things I have found slowly over time is that because I do so much sharing of my awe moments, and Itry to just be super authentic in how I do it, because I. Do love sharing and talking to my kids. They are much more likely to share them with me, to tell me their stories or to send me the picture they find or the song they think I will like.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so for me, it becomes almost this very authentic way of just sharing our day together and paying attention to what lights me up and what lights my kids up. And yes, that requires a little bit of slowing down, but it doesn’t require. You know, this is gonna be a day of no screens and nothing, or we’re gonna get, take an entirely unplugged vacation for a week, which none of us have the time or resources to do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> It’s quite, um. Uh, contrast I think to maybe how our brains are wired to think about only bad things that are very sticky or, um, uh, the worst things that can happen to us. I think a lot of us are just inclined to, um, you know, think negatively, um, and dwell on those things, but seeing the beautiful positive things in the world, um, may also provide a more accurate. Picture or depiction of our daily lives that there are beautiful wonder, wonderful things around us if we just take the time, uh, time to look.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deborah Farmer Kris :\u003c/strong> Yeah, sometimes I describe awe as the ultimate and emotion. So, you know, awe is different than gratitude. Gratitude is actually, um, it can be quite a cerebral. Emotion where you think back and even though in the moment you didn’t appreciate it, now you do and you’re grateful for that. Um, awe is very involuntary emotion, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You see something beautiful, you feel it. And you know, for me, I call it the “and” emotion because you know, I may be having a really tough day and I’m disturbed by something on the news and just before coming up here, Ki, there was this mass of robins, um, outside that was chattering so loudly. I didn’t actually think they were robins because it was midday. And normally they’re not as that loud midday. And I pulled out my Merlin app to see what they were, and I’m watching them hovering. And I’m wondering, like, I actually Googled, like, why would there be the swarm of Robin’s midday? Um, and it was just a, a brief moment where it was. Again, this, you know, the world is difficult. The world is messy. The world is complicated, and people are doing brave, kind, wonderful things every day. And there are artists making incredible works that will move us. And there’s a natural world out there that is. You know, still full of such mystery.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so it’s not, you know, as somebody would talk about toxic positivity saying, you know, just look on the bright side, it’s more of just acknowledging that you can have a difficult day and, you know, taking a step outside, taking a deep breath and hearing that bird song or getting that text from a friend who brings you a moment of, of, of warmth and kindness. Um, those moments can coexist.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> So speaking of bird song or something that has that resonant rhythm, um, you interviewed Dacher Keltner of UC, Berkeley, and he had some advice on finding awe that you wrote about a. In your book, uh, can you read to me what his advice was?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deborah Farmer Kris :\u003c/strong> Yes, I actually structure it like a poem, uh, in the book. And while I was interviewing him, he was actually out on a walk, which I find quite lovely. And so I said to him, you know, what is your best advice for finding awe? And this is what he said. How do you find awe? You allow unstructured time. How do you find awe?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You wander, you drift through. You take a walk with no aim. How do you find awe? You slow things down. You allow for mystery and open questions rather than test driven answers, you allow people to engage in the humanities of dance and visual art and music.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> That really is beautiful. so let’s break it down a little bit. Uh, you have spent 20 years as a K to 12 teacher. What does awe look like for the different age groups? for elementary years, the middle school years, or maybe even the high school years?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deborah Farmer Kris :\u003c/strong> That’s a great question, and I think to answer this, I, I first need to just very briefly talk about the sources because some of these sources will look different at different ages. So when you think about. General categories where people find awe. You have nature and music, the arts, big questions, big ideas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Uh, that feeling of belonging and this, uh, this life cycle. And of course kinda human goodness. So people being kind and brave, and I think at different ages, different of those take priorities. So, you know, for a 4-year-old, one of the things they’re really driven by are why questions. You know, why is this happening?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In fact, there’s some research. That shows, depending on the source, that four year olds can ask, you know, between kind of 70 and a hundred questions a day. Uh, and if you’re raising a kid that age that may actually feel like, you know, a low estimate, but they’re really trying to understand their world and so they’re constantly asking questions, engaging with their world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so. That’s really exciting and, and in fact, one of the challenges I think for educators and parents are how do you get high schoolers to still want to have that sense of wonder and engagement with their world? You know, when your kids are hitting the, the middle of high school years, the. The wonder of belonging.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Um, there’s a, an expression from Émile Durkheim called Collective Effervescence. Um, that is really key because they want to be part of a group. And collective effervescence basically means that you’re part of a group that is doing, uh, engaged harmoniously toward a common good cause. And so you might think of a sports team or a choral group, or even a Model UN or d and d or robotics club where people are working together toward this common aim, and that feels really good. Um, so when kids, especially teenagers, don’t find that they’re missing out on a. A source of wonder that they’re actually biologically primed for, because this is an age where they’re pulling away from parents and looking to be part of a peer group.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so that becomes a really important thing to help kids navigate. How do you find the in-person, peer group?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deborah Farmer Kris :\u003c/strong> Um, I think. You know, for any age group being out in nature, um, engaging with art, finding music that speaks to them and that may change dramatically their musical tastes. Um. Those are all kind of ready-made sources of awe that we can be tapping into as, as teachers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One of the things I really love about the whole developmental range of childhood is that interest change and that what makes them tick, what lights them up, change, and, um I’ve taught almost every grade K through 12, and really one of my favorites is middle school, partly because it’s such a time of intense change.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And I think for parents and educators, it can feel tricky when it looks like they are, um, letting go of things that used to make them happy with sources of awe and, and, and wonder for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so it might look like they’re just getting jaded or cynical when in fact they’re undergoing a very natural transition into. Perhaps what is going to be the new face. And so being patient with them and kind of going with it and getting curious, um, have practicing some radical curiosity about, okay, so your kid doesn’t really like soccer anymore after all these years on a, you know, soccer squad, but it looks like they might be interested in joining, um, a drama troupe. And so I’m gonna take a deep breath and go with that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Or there might be a sticky time in between where they don’t know who their friend group is and what their interests are. But that is such a great identity formation time, and I feel like awe and wonder are a great tool for parents during that identity formation because if you can start just paying attention to, okay, so what is sparking their interests? What does light them up? What? Where can I see that their eyes did grow wide? And maybe we explore that a little bit. Maybe it sticks, maybe it doesn’t, and that’s okay. But these are all pathways in to mental wellness, emotional wellness, and even academic growth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> That sounds like great advice and you cited, uh, Benjamin Bloom’s research, I believe, when describing that spark.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deborah Farmer Kris :\u003c/strong> Yeah\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Um, and parents, you know, encouraging kids along that path. Uh. I do have a question for you, for educators. What amazes me whenever I observe teachers in the classroom is how they can be still enthusiastic teaching the same topic, bringing the sense of awe to 30 different kids six times a day for the many, many years they’ve been teaching. How do awe and wonder continue to exist in a classroom when one might get a little tired of doing the same thing over and over again?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deborah Farmer Kris :\u003c/strong> I love that question. I was an English teacher for years as well as an elementary school teacher. And I, I think between reflecting on my own teaching experience. And now this research, I had a bit of an aha moment\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>uh, what kept it fresh was watching my students first encounter with it. their moments of awe, I remember a student coming in and we had just finished Taylor two cities, and she came in and she was crying and she was angry and she threw the book down. She had finished the book in the hallway and she said. It’s not supposed to end this way. And I thought, you know, I’ve read this book a dozen times, but for the first time here, she’s experiencing this emotional catharsis of seeing this kind of final sacrifice of the, the protagonist of this book. And, um, you know, that’s a really exciting thing as a teacher.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You know, I, I write about my freshman year in college ’cause it’s still so transformational to me. I had this professor who took us out of the classroom. He was an education professor, but he took us to the Museum of Fine Arts. He took us to the Isabella Stewart Garden Museum in Boston. And, um. At one point, uh, you know, I, it was several weeks later I was reading, uh, I, I went to the Isabella Stewart Gardner to, to do some homework.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was cold in Boston. It was a beautiful courtyard. Um, and he ended up capturing a picture of, of me reading something and giving that to me as a gift. This kind of emblem of, you know, me reading a book in an art museum. And I actually kept that picture in my classroom for years as kind of this reminder of a teacher who saw me, a teacher, introduced me to beauty, uh, and that that was the type, even though I didn’t have the word awe for it at the time, it was absolutely what drew me back to that place. Um, and so I knew almost intuitively that that was the emotion that I wanted to connect with, with the students. And so, you know, if I am bored with what I’m teaching, I need to freshen it up a little bit. Um, but it may be that I just. I also need to tune into the kids in front of me in a way that what sparks me is their spark, um, more than the content itself.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> I think what I’m hearing you say is awe is this connective feeling that motivates you, motivates the students, um, and maybe motivates a lot of people to shape their worlds into something different than what they had before or had been expecting for themselves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deborah Farmer Kris :\u003c/strong> I think that’s fair because one of the characteristics of awe is what scientists call the small self, uh, which is when you know. I think about this with teenagers where they, they think everybody’s staring at them. Uh, I think a lot of adults feel that too, right? I, I made a mistake. Everybody’s thinking about that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And anything that helps you zoom out and get a broader perspective, uh, is something that can help quiet that kind of internal chatter that we have, um, and just kind of realign. Our understanding of the world and our place in it. And one of my favorite pieces of research, uh, and I, I share this with kids a lot and they love it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/strong>Um, it, it was conducted at uc, Berkeley, and there’s a science building, which from the back is really a nondescript brick building. Nothing particularly awe inspiring about that architecture. But if you turn your body around, there’s this grove of, um, old growth trees. And so the researchers had their subjects one by one come out and either face the nondescript brick building or face the beautiful grove of trees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And then after a span of time, somebody else in the study, unbeknownst to the test subject, wanders by and drops things. And they were measuring like, well, who’s gonna help the stranger pick up their things? And it turns out. At a statistically significant level, those who were staring at the trees, uh, were more likely to help a stranger than those staring at a brick building.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And what I love about the study is that it’s just, it’s such a metaphor for life in the sense that we can be standing in the exact same place. Right, the same circumstances, but where we direct our gaze, um, what we choose to see also can increase our sense of connectedness, um, to people around us. And one of the other things we know is that, um performing acts of kindness, right? That is a boost to wellbeing as well. Uh, that when somebody is feeling lonely or down or depressed, that acts of service turned out to be a really, really effective and powerful intervention. And so, you know, I. Researchers speculate. Why have we evolved to feel this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Because all feelings have functions, right? Disgust is there because we don’t want to eat the rotten chicken and fear motivates us to avoid danger. Uh, so the hypothesis is that awe is designed to help us um be more connected to our communities, um, to kind of bind people toward a common purpose, right? If you know, I, I think about the eclipse and how I was near the path of totality and how the entire neighborhood came out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And here we are, the whole neighborhood staring up at the sky together. Like these are moments. Um. You think of all the people who, who go to a World Series game, um, to cheer together that are, are binding us as a community. And those are things that help us with wellbeing and even survival. And so that’s, that’s a hypothesis and it’s, it’s one I, I think we should continue to explore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Deborah, thanks so much for bringing awe to our attention. I hope that just by bringing this topic into the world or sharing it more with a wider audience, that more people create this positive impact to create a better world. It sounds like we’re already on our way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deborah Farmer Kris :\u003c/strong> Thanks so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>Debra Farmer Kris is a child development expert and author of “\u003ca href=\"https://www.teachercreatedmaterials.com/products/raising-awe-seekers-how-the-science-of-wonder-helps-our-kids-thrive-153673\">Raising Awe Seekers, how The Science of Wonder Helps our Kids Thrive\u003c/a>.” She’s also a longtime MindShift contributor who’s written a lot about emotion so I encourage you to look up those stories. And she also works for PBS Kids as a show consultant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can also check out her children’s book series “All the Time” and “I See You”.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/strong>The MindShift team includes me, Ki Sung, Nimah Gobir, Marlena Jackson-Retondo and Marnette Federis. Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer. Jen Chien is our head of podcasts. Katie Sprenger is podcast operations manager and Ethan Toven Lindsey is our editor in chief. We receive additional support from Maha Sanad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William & Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Thanks for listening to MindShift.\u003c/p>\n\n",
"blocks": [],
"excerpt": "In her new book, \"Raising Awe Seekers: How The Science of Wonder Helps our Kids Thrive,\" Deborah Farmer Kris shares the powerful emotion that primes people to learn.",
"status": "publish",
"parent": 0,
"modified": 1762900125,
"stats": {
"hasAudio": true,
"hasVideo": false,
"hasChartOrMap": false,
"iframeSrcs": [],
"hasGoogleForm": false,
"hasGallery": false,
"hasHearkenModule": false,
"hasPolis": false,
"paragraphCount": 77,
"wordCount": 4996
},
"headData": {
"title": "Deborah Farmer Kris: How Awe Helps Us Flourish | KQED",
"description": "In her new book, "Raising Awe Seekers: How The Science of Wonder Helps our Kids Thrive," Deborah Farmer Kris shares the powerful emotion that primes people to learn.",
"ogTitle": "",
"ogDescription": "",
"ogImgId": "",
"twTitle": "",
"twDescription": "",
"twImgId": "",
"schema": {
"@context": "https://schema.org",
"@type": "Article",
"headline": "Deborah Farmer Kris: How Awe Helps Us Flourish",
"datePublished": "2025-11-12T03:00:48-08:00",
"dateModified": "2025-11-11T14:28:45-08:00",
"image": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"
}
},
"primaryCategory": {
"termId": 21504,
"slug": "education-research",
"name": "Education research"
},
"audioUrl": "https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC9148141574.mp3?updated=1762832441",
"sticky": false,
"templateType": "standard",
"featuredImageType": "standard",
"excludeFromSiteSearch": "Include",
"articleAge": "1",
"path": "/mindshift/65961/deborah-farmer-kris-how-awe-helps-us-flourish",
"audioTrackLength": null,
"parsedContent": [
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In recent years, educators and academics have studied many aspects of how students learn. The role of grit, resilience and growth mindset, for example, have been closely studied and strategies to develop them widely shared.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Additionally, the connection between \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/45201/why-emotions-are-integral-to-learning\">emotions and learning\u003c/a> has acquired more attention, as has the role of \u003ca href=\"https://ggsc.berkeley.edu/images/uploads/GGSC-JTF_White_Paper-Awe_FINAL.pdf\">awe in human development\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>K-12 educator Deborah Farmer Kris wrote about the benefits of awe in our daily lives in her book, “\u003ca href=\"https://www.teachercreatedmaterials.com/products/raising-awe-seekers-how-the-science-of-wonder-helps-our-kids-thrive-153673\">Raising Awe Seekers: How The Science of Wonder Helps our Kids Thrive,\u003c/a>” and joined the MindShift Podcast to talk about her surprising findings. She also has tips on how to\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/65520/how-experiencing-wonder-helps-kids-learn\"> cultivate awe in children and adults\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And as someone who has taught for two decades, she has advice on what educators can do to find the wonder in subjects they teach several times a day, year over year, to a large number of students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
},
{
"type": "component",
"content": "",
"name": "ad",
"attributes": {
"named": {
"label": "fullwidth"
},
"numeric": [
"fullwidth"
]
}
},
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC9148141574\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Welcome to the MindShift Podcast where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Ki Sung. Today I’m speaking to longtime MindShift contributor Debra Farmer Kris. She’s a child development expert and author of the book, “\u003ca href=\"https://www.teachercreatedmaterials.com/products/raising-awe-seekers-how-the-science-of-wonder-helps-our-kids-thrive-153673\">Raising Awe Seekers: How The Science of Wonder Helps our Kids Thrive\u003c/a>.” During the depths of pandemic-era parenting, Deborah Farmer Kris discovered that awe is an often overlooked but powerful emotion. We’ll discuss how parents and educators can use awe to drive engagement with classroom materials and connection with the world around us. That conversation, coming up right after this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>Let’s start by diving right into the title of your book, “Raising Awe Seekers.” We hear the word awe and its variations like awesome all the time, but let’s take a step back and have you define for us what awe is and why it’s important for human development.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deborah Farmer Kris :\u003c/strong> So first awe is an emotion, and that is important because as an emotion, it is something we can feel, uh, and we can recognize when we’re feeling it. And so when you look at emotions, um, you have kind of your core four, like happy, mad, sad, scared, and you have variations of those. So underneath mad, you might have irate or frustrated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Awe is more of a subset of surprise and a is what you feel when you encounter something that is vast. That is, um, wondrous, that is beyond your ordinary frame of reference. You might see something new that moves you, that touches you, that excites you. And the way researchers often talk about how you know you’re feeling it is things like, uh, chills or goosebumps for some people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Um, maybe your eyes involuntarily spring you with tears, uh, the sound. Wow. Or whoa, you know, you have somebody choose a half court shot and it goes in and people aren’t saying That was an amazing shot. Now they’re making a all guttural sound of Wow. And I think for children as a, as an educator and as a parent, I would put in that category, this wide eyes that it’s almost like they want to absorb what they’re seeing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The really neat thing about this particular emotion is that there is a wealth of research, uh, about 25 years now, most of it out of the \u003ca href=\"https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/topic/awe\">Greater Good Science Center at University of California Berkeley\u003c/a>,\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>and it turns out that, most good things we want for our kids from, uh, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/38260/whats-going-on-inside-the-brain-of-a-curious-child\">curiosity and cognitive development\u003c/a> to a sense of mental and emotional wellness, to a sense of connectedness, awe supports all of those outcomes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> it’s interesting that the research has been out for 25 years or around for 25 years because, you know, we see a lot of different types of behaviors getting academic and media scrutiny, like, you know, the popular ones :grit, resilience, anxiety, growth, mindset, but all doesn’t quite get as much attention. Do you know why?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deborah Farmer Kris :\u003c/strong> You know, I think there wasn’t really the popularized book for the moment, you know, \u003ca href=\"https://ggsc.berkeley.edu/images/uploads/GGSC-JTF_White_Paper-Awe_FINAL.pdf\">Dacher Keltner\u003c/a>, who’s the main researcher on this, one of the lead ones, a year and a half ago, came out with a \u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/Awe-Science-Everyday-Wonder-Transform/dp/1984879685\">wonderful book\u003c/a> that has been getting more press.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So I think awe is beginning to have a bit of a moment now. But before then you had to kind of be like me, the, the kind of the nerd looking through the journals and looking through the articles and, you know, I was always kind of, because I write for Mind Shift and other sources on the lookout for good research that could be translated, for teachers and parents. And so while it was there, it really hadn’t had its, um, you know it, it’s social moment yet, and I think hopefully we’re at the beginnings of that right now\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> What does awe have to do with, say, being able to pay attention in class, especially for kids who are overscheduled or have a high amount of screen time?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deborah Farmer Kris :\u003c/strong> Mm-hmm. So where awe is really helpful. Academically is that it is highly correlated with curiosity. And one thing we know about curiosity from reams of research is that curiosity is a key indicator of academic success. ’cause it relates to internal motivation. I mean, think about it. You have curious about something, you want to learn it, you’re motivated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Um, and so the link between awe and curiosity is just really tight because you see something you don’t understand. And awe is often related to this wow moment of, you know, I’m, I’m looking at these stars and I’m wondering, I have these, I, I wish I knew more. And that feeling, that curiosity is what propels kids to, to want to learn. And one of the really cool pieces of research that I describe in the book was that when you’re curious about something, it actually primes the brain to remember things. And I, I think about this often with very young children, how you might have a 4-year-old who can memorize the names of all the dinosaurs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So they might be talking about the diplodocus. But they might be struggling with some of their other more basic vocabulary, but because their interest level is so high, they are primed to remember. And so really deep learning often happens at this intersection of, you know, of focus and interest. And so, um, one of the things they have.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Researchers have also found is that when the brain is primed with curiosity on wonder that even say 30 minutes later when you’re engaged in an activity that’s not as interesting, not as awe inspiring, your brain is still primed to learn. And so that gets me thinking about how it maybe a class is organized, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So am I doing something at the beginning of class that’s really capturing the imagination or the wonder, um, or the curiosity of students, uh. To prime their brain to remember something that later in the class may be important, but not necessarily as, um, wondrous for them. And so I think this is an interesting way for us to think about students who may not be as engaged,\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If they’re not as engaged in everything, can we find the one thing? Can we find the thing that excites them, that sparks that awe, that lights them up, and use that as kind of a foundation for other academic learning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> I wanna talk about parents real quick. Um, when you talk about wonder, I don’t know if I have time for it, because we’re literally so busy. Um, what is the benefit of making the time to wonder, um, how should I exercise restraint in not wanting to rush, Um, tell me how to restrain myself.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deborah Farmer Kris :\u003c/strong> So researching awe has absolutely in subtle but profound ways transformed how I parent my kids, um, partly because it has made me more attentive to the world around me. Many of the sources of awe are deeply tied to our sensory system, so sounds, sight, smells, what we’re taking in. One of the great things about awe that you, you don’t need to go to the Sistine Chapel or the Grand Canyon, that it’s a very everyday ordinary emotion, and it’s more about putting ourselves in, in the path of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So for me as a parent, the first thing I had to do was make sure I was making some space for it myself. And the simplest way I, I did this, um, was by adopting, um, one of the practices from research, which was taking an a walk. Now I have a dog, so I am outside with the dog at least three times a day, usually morning, midday, and evening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And I made the decision that one of those. Times I was outside, even for five or 10 minutes, I would not have my phone on, I would not be listening to music. I would just be paying attention. I’d be looking up, uh, I would be looking at the trees. Um, and I, I, I literally call it my awe walk, right? Five minutes a day, 10 minutes a day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And I noticed that. Over the course of nearly two years now, this has transformed my relationship with my neighborhood. And I don’t just mean my neighbors, although being outside has helped me connect with them. But the trees, the, the birds who I really didn’t even notice were in the neighborhood. And now I can identify so many of them, the, the changing of the seasons.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Um, and then I made the very conscious decision as a parent that when I did notice these things, I was going to be more active about sharing them. Uh, and that means that, you know, if I hear a story that of say a human being kind or brave, which is a key source of awe and wonder. Um, I’m gonna talk to my kids about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Um, if I see a really beautiful sunset, I am going to be the mom who says, come out and look. Just the other day we were driving home and there was a incredible double rainbow. And I pulled over, I was driving my son home from piano lessons and behind me another parent pulled over with their four or 5-year-old and the two of us were standing out there with our two children in the drizzling rain looking at this gorgeous rainbow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And I just, you know, thought this was a moment where it’s gonna take me two minutes longer to get home, but this will be something my child remembers where typically a drive home you don’t remember. so it, it’s really not about the big experience, it’s about the little moments in the day of the song, the what you see, the smell that you pause, you notice, and then you take the next step to share.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Uh, because one of the things I have found slowly over time is that because I do so much sharing of my awe moments, and Itry to just be super authentic in how I do it, because I. Do love sharing and talking to my kids. They are much more likely to share them with me, to tell me their stories or to send me the picture they find or the song they think I will like.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so for me, it becomes almost this very authentic way of just sharing our day together and paying attention to what lights me up and what lights my kids up. And yes, that requires a little bit of slowing down, but it doesn’t require. You know, this is gonna be a day of no screens and nothing, or we’re gonna get, take an entirely unplugged vacation for a week, which none of us have the time or resources to do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> It’s quite, um. Uh, contrast I think to maybe how our brains are wired to think about only bad things that are very sticky or, um, uh, the worst things that can happen to us. I think a lot of us are just inclined to, um, you know, think negatively, um, and dwell on those things, but seeing the beautiful positive things in the world, um, may also provide a more accurate. Picture or depiction of our daily lives that there are beautiful wonder, wonderful things around us if we just take the time, uh, time to look.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deborah Farmer Kris :\u003c/strong> Yeah, sometimes I describe awe as the ultimate and emotion. So, you know, awe is different than gratitude. Gratitude is actually, um, it can be quite a cerebral. Emotion where you think back and even though in the moment you didn’t appreciate it, now you do and you’re grateful for that. Um, awe is very involuntary emotion, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You see something beautiful, you feel it. And you know, for me, I call it the “and” emotion because you know, I may be having a really tough day and I’m disturbed by something on the news and just before coming up here, Ki, there was this mass of robins, um, outside that was chattering so loudly. I didn’t actually think they were robins because it was midday. And normally they’re not as that loud midday. And I pulled out my Merlin app to see what they were, and I’m watching them hovering. And I’m wondering, like, I actually Googled, like, why would there be the swarm of Robin’s midday? Um, and it was just a, a brief moment where it was. Again, this, you know, the world is difficult. The world is messy. The world is complicated, and people are doing brave, kind, wonderful things every day. And there are artists making incredible works that will move us. And there’s a natural world out there that is. You know, still full of such mystery.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so it’s not, you know, as somebody would talk about toxic positivity saying, you know, just look on the bright side, it’s more of just acknowledging that you can have a difficult day and, you know, taking a step outside, taking a deep breath and hearing that bird song or getting that text from a friend who brings you a moment of, of, of warmth and kindness. Um, those moments can coexist.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> So speaking of bird song or something that has that resonant rhythm, um, you interviewed Dacher Keltner of UC, Berkeley, and he had some advice on finding awe that you wrote about a. In your book, uh, can you read to me what his advice was?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deborah Farmer Kris :\u003c/strong> Yes, I actually structure it like a poem, uh, in the book. And while I was interviewing him, he was actually out on a walk, which I find quite lovely. And so I said to him, you know, what is your best advice for finding awe? And this is what he said. How do you find awe? You allow unstructured time. How do you find awe?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You wander, you drift through. You take a walk with no aim. How do you find awe? You slow things down. You allow for mystery and open questions rather than test driven answers, you allow people to engage in the humanities of dance and visual art and music.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> That really is beautiful. so let’s break it down a little bit. Uh, you have spent 20 years as a K to 12 teacher. What does awe look like for the different age groups? for elementary years, the middle school years, or maybe even the high school years?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deborah Farmer Kris :\u003c/strong> That’s a great question, and I think to answer this, I, I first need to just very briefly talk about the sources because some of these sources will look different at different ages. So when you think about. General categories where people find awe. You have nature and music, the arts, big questions, big ideas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Uh, that feeling of belonging and this, uh, this life cycle. And of course kinda human goodness. So people being kind and brave, and I think at different ages, different of those take priorities. So, you know, for a 4-year-old, one of the things they’re really driven by are why questions. You know, why is this happening?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In fact, there’s some research. That shows, depending on the source, that four year olds can ask, you know, between kind of 70 and a hundred questions a day. Uh, and if you’re raising a kid that age that may actually feel like, you know, a low estimate, but they’re really trying to understand their world and so they’re constantly asking questions, engaging with their world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so. That’s really exciting and, and in fact, one of the challenges I think for educators and parents are how do you get high schoolers to still want to have that sense of wonder and engagement with their world? You know, when your kids are hitting the, the middle of high school years, the. The wonder of belonging.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Um, there’s a, an expression from Émile Durkheim called Collective Effervescence. Um, that is really key because they want to be part of a group. And collective effervescence basically means that you’re part of a group that is doing, uh, engaged harmoniously toward a common good cause. And so you might think of a sports team or a choral group, or even a Model UN or d and d or robotics club where people are working together toward this common aim, and that feels really good. Um, so when kids, especially teenagers, don’t find that they’re missing out on a. A source of wonder that they’re actually biologically primed for, because this is an age where they’re pulling away from parents and looking to be part of a peer group.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so that becomes a really important thing to help kids navigate. How do you find the in-person, peer group?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deborah Farmer Kris :\u003c/strong> Um, I think. You know, for any age group being out in nature, um, engaging with art, finding music that speaks to them and that may change dramatically their musical tastes. Um. Those are all kind of ready-made sources of awe that we can be tapping into as, as teachers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One of the things I really love about the whole developmental range of childhood is that interest change and that what makes them tick, what lights them up, change, and, um I’ve taught almost every grade K through 12, and really one of my favorites is middle school, partly because it’s such a time of intense change.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And I think for parents and educators, it can feel tricky when it looks like they are, um, letting go of things that used to make them happy with sources of awe and, and, and wonder for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so it might look like they’re just getting jaded or cynical when in fact they’re undergoing a very natural transition into. Perhaps what is going to be the new face. And so being patient with them and kind of going with it and getting curious, um, have practicing some radical curiosity about, okay, so your kid doesn’t really like soccer anymore after all these years on a, you know, soccer squad, but it looks like they might be interested in joining, um, a drama troupe. And so I’m gonna take a deep breath and go with that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Or there might be a sticky time in between where they don’t know who their friend group is and what their interests are. But that is such a great identity formation time, and I feel like awe and wonder are a great tool for parents during that identity formation because if you can start just paying attention to, okay, so what is sparking their interests? What does light them up? What? Where can I see that their eyes did grow wide? And maybe we explore that a little bit. Maybe it sticks, maybe it doesn’t, and that’s okay. But these are all pathways in to mental wellness, emotional wellness, and even academic growth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> That sounds like great advice and you cited, uh, Benjamin Bloom’s research, I believe, when describing that spark.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deborah Farmer Kris :\u003c/strong> Yeah\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Um, and parents, you know, encouraging kids along that path. Uh. I do have a question for you, for educators. What amazes me whenever I observe teachers in the classroom is how they can be still enthusiastic teaching the same topic, bringing the sense of awe to 30 different kids six times a day for the many, many years they’ve been teaching. How do awe and wonder continue to exist in a classroom when one might get a little tired of doing the same thing over and over again?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deborah Farmer Kris :\u003c/strong> I love that question. I was an English teacher for years as well as an elementary school teacher. And I, I think between reflecting on my own teaching experience. And now this research, I had a bit of an aha moment\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>uh, what kept it fresh was watching my students first encounter with it. their moments of awe, I remember a student coming in and we had just finished Taylor two cities, and she came in and she was crying and she was angry and she threw the book down. She had finished the book in the hallway and she said. It’s not supposed to end this way. And I thought, you know, I’ve read this book a dozen times, but for the first time here, she’s experiencing this emotional catharsis of seeing this kind of final sacrifice of the, the protagonist of this book. And, um, you know, that’s a really exciting thing as a teacher.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You know, I, I write about my freshman year in college ’cause it’s still so transformational to me. I had this professor who took us out of the classroom. He was an education professor, but he took us to the Museum of Fine Arts. He took us to the Isabella Stewart Garden Museum in Boston. And, um. At one point, uh, you know, I, it was several weeks later I was reading, uh, I, I went to the Isabella Stewart Gardner to, to do some homework.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was cold in Boston. It was a beautiful courtyard. Um, and he ended up capturing a picture of, of me reading something and giving that to me as a gift. This kind of emblem of, you know, me reading a book in an art museum. And I actually kept that picture in my classroom for years as kind of this reminder of a teacher who saw me, a teacher, introduced me to beauty, uh, and that that was the type, even though I didn’t have the word awe for it at the time, it was absolutely what drew me back to that place. Um, and so I knew almost intuitively that that was the emotion that I wanted to connect with, with the students. And so, you know, if I am bored with what I’m teaching, I need to freshen it up a little bit. Um, but it may be that I just. I also need to tune into the kids in front of me in a way that what sparks me is their spark, um, more than the content itself.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> I think what I’m hearing you say is awe is this connective feeling that motivates you, motivates the students, um, and maybe motivates a lot of people to shape their worlds into something different than what they had before or had been expecting for themselves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deborah Farmer Kris :\u003c/strong> I think that’s fair because one of the characteristics of awe is what scientists call the small self, uh, which is when you know. I think about this with teenagers where they, they think everybody’s staring at them. Uh, I think a lot of adults feel that too, right? I, I made a mistake. Everybody’s thinking about that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And anything that helps you zoom out and get a broader perspective, uh, is something that can help quiet that kind of internal chatter that we have, um, and just kind of realign. Our understanding of the world and our place in it. And one of my favorite pieces of research, uh, and I, I share this with kids a lot and they love it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/strong>Um, it, it was conducted at uc, Berkeley, and there’s a science building, which from the back is really a nondescript brick building. Nothing particularly awe inspiring about that architecture. But if you turn your body around, there’s this grove of, um, old growth trees. And so the researchers had their subjects one by one come out and either face the nondescript brick building or face the beautiful grove of trees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And then after a span of time, somebody else in the study, unbeknownst to the test subject, wanders by and drops things. And they were measuring like, well, who’s gonna help the stranger pick up their things? And it turns out. At a statistically significant level, those who were staring at the trees, uh, were more likely to help a stranger than those staring at a brick building.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And what I love about the study is that it’s just, it’s such a metaphor for life in the sense that we can be standing in the exact same place. Right, the same circumstances, but where we direct our gaze, um, what we choose to see also can increase our sense of connectedness, um, to people around us. And one of the other things we know is that, um performing acts of kindness, right? That is a boost to wellbeing as well. Uh, that when somebody is feeling lonely or down or depressed, that acts of service turned out to be a really, really effective and powerful intervention. And so, you know, I. Researchers speculate. Why have we evolved to feel this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Because all feelings have functions, right? Disgust is there because we don’t want to eat the rotten chicken and fear motivates us to avoid danger. Uh, so the hypothesis is that awe is designed to help us um be more connected to our communities, um, to kind of bind people toward a common purpose, right? If you know, I, I think about the eclipse and how I was near the path of totality and how the entire neighborhood came out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And here we are, the whole neighborhood staring up at the sky together. Like these are moments. Um. You think of all the people who, who go to a World Series game, um, to cheer together that are, are binding us as a community. And those are things that help us with wellbeing and even survival. And so that’s, that’s a hypothesis and it’s, it’s one I, I think we should continue to explore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Deborah, thanks so much for bringing awe to our attention. I hope that just by bringing this topic into the world or sharing it more with a wider audience, that more people create this positive impact to create a better world. It sounds like we’re already on our way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Deborah Farmer Kris :\u003c/strong> Thanks so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>Debra Farmer Kris is a child development expert and author of “\u003ca href=\"https://www.teachercreatedmaterials.com/products/raising-awe-seekers-how-the-science-of-wonder-helps-our-kids-thrive-153673\">Raising Awe Seekers, how The Science of Wonder Helps our Kids Thrive\u003c/a>.” She’s also a longtime MindShift contributor who’s written a lot about emotion so I encourage you to look up those stories. And she also works for PBS Kids as a show consultant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can also check out her children’s book series “All the Time” and “I See You”.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/strong>The MindShift team includes me, Ki Sung, Nimah Gobir, Marlena Jackson-Retondo and Marnette Federis. Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer. Jen Chien is our head of podcasts. Katie Sprenger is podcast operations manager and Ethan Toven Lindsey is our editor in chief. We receive additional support from Maha Sanad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William & Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
},
{
"type": "component",
"content": "",
"name": "ad",
"attributes": {
"named": {
"label": "floatright"
},
"numeric": [
"floatright"
]
}
},
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Thanks for listening to MindShift.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
}
],
"link": "/mindshift/65961/deborah-farmer-kris-how-awe-helps-us-flourish",
"authors": [
"4596"
],
"programs": [
"mindshift_21847"
],
"categories": [
"mindshift_21504",
"mindshift_21130"
],
"tags": [
"mindshift_21998",
"mindshift_945",
"mindshift_21132",
"mindshift_21038",
"mindshift_20616"
],
"featImg": "mindshift_65966",
"label": "mindshift_21847"
},
"mindshift_65767": {
"type": "posts",
"id": "mindshift_65767",
"meta": {
"index": "posts_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "65767",
"score": null,
"sort": [
1757412057000
]
},
"guestAuthors": [],
"slug": "teaching-civics-in-a-divided-age-intergenerational-dialogue-should-go-both-ways",
"title": "Teaching Civics in a Divided Age? Intergenerational Dialogue Should Go Both Ways",
"publishDate": 1757412057,
"format": "audio",
"headTitle": "Teaching Civics in a Divided Age? Intergenerational Dialogue Should Go Both Ways | KQED",
"labelTerm": {
"term": 21942,
"site": "mindshift"
},
"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Teacher Ivy Mitchell has spent two decades helping students understand how government works. But recently, her \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/58660/teaching-civics-soft-skills-how-do-civics-education-and-social-emotional-learning-overlap\">eighth-grade civics students \u003c/a>didn’t see a clear role for themselves in democracy, particularly because they were learning within the confines of the classroom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So, she tried something new – she invited \u003ca href=\"https://secure.smore.com/n/x2yqe\">older adults into her classroom to participate on a panel to answer a basic question\u003c/a>, “Why do we have civics?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Panelists shared first-hand stories about the Vietnam War, the Civil Rights Movement and women’s rights, which brought history to life for students in a way textbooks rarely do. In turn, the older adults asked students about their views on \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/65296/with-ai-changing-everything-heres-how-teachers-can-shape-the-new-culture-of-learning\">artificial intelligence\u003c/a> and whether they were interested in civic life and volunteering.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Her hope for both the older adults and students was that they would connect with one another through learning about each other and start building community connections.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6728408/\">Research shows intergenerational programs\u003c/a> can improve students’ empathy, literacy and\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/54968/how-classroom-political-discussions-controversies-too-prepare-students-for-needed-civic-participation\"> civic engagement\u003c/a>, but developing those relationships outside of the home are hard to come by.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_65780\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 249px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-65780\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/0780.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"249\" height=\"311\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/0780.jpg 640w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/0780-160x200.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 249px) 100vw, 249px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Ivy Mitchell has spent two decades helping students understand how government works.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We are the \u003ca href=\"https://cogenerate.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Beyond-Passing-The-Torch.pdf\">most age segregated society,” said Mitchell.\u003c/a> “There’s a lot of research out there on how seniors are dealing with their lack of connection to the community, because a lot of those community resources have eroded over time.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While some schools like \u003ca href=\"https://www.jenksps.org/o/west-elementary/page/grace-skilled-nursing-and-therapy-center\">Jenks West Elementary in Oklahoma\u003c/a> have built daily intergenerational interaction into their infrastructure, Mitchell shows that powerful learning experiences can happen within a single classroom. Her approach to intergenerational learning is supported by four takeaways.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong style=\"font-size: 24px; color: #2b2b2b;\">1. Have Conversations With Students Before An Event\u003c/strong>\u003cbr>\nBefore the panel, Mitchell guided students through a structured \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/54378/how-to-create-deeper-student-learning-experiences-through-questions\">question-generating process\u003c/a>. She gave them broad topics to brainstorm around and encouraged them to think about what they were genuinely curious to ask someone from an older generation. After reviewing their suggestions, she selected the questions that would work best for the event and assigned student volunteers to ask them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To help the older adult panelists feel comfortable, Mitchell also hosted a brunch before the event. It gave panelists a chance to meet each other and ease into the school environment before stepping in front of a room full of eighth graders.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That kind of preparation makes a big difference, said Ruby Belle Booth, a researcher from the \u003ca href=\"https://circle.tufts.edu/\">Center for Information and Research on Civic Learning and Engagement\u003c/a> at Tufts University. “Having really clear goals and expectations is one of the easiest ways to facilitate this process for young people or for older adults,” she said. When students know what to expect, they’re more confident stepping into unfamiliar conversations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That scaffolding helped students ask thoughtful, big-picture questions like: “What were the major civic issues of your life?” and “What was it like to be in a country at war?”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>2. Build Connections Into Work You’re Already Doing\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Mitchell didn’t start from scratch. In the past, she had assigned students to interview older adults. But she noticed those conversations often stayed surface level. “How’s school? How’s soccer?” Mitchell said, summarizing the questions often asked. “The moment for reflecting on your life and sharing that is pretty rare.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She saw an opportunity to go deeper. By bringing those intergenerational conversations into her civics class, Mitchell hoped students would hear first-hand how older adults experienced civic life and begin to see themselves as future voters and engaged citizens. “\u003ca href=\"https://www.democraticknowledgeproject.org/\">[A majority] of baby boomers believe that democracy is the best system\u003c/a>,” she said. “But a third of young people are like, ‘Yeah, we don’t really have to vote.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Integrating this work into existing curriculum can be practical and powerful. “Thinking about how you can start with what you have is a really great way to implement this kind of intergenerational learning without fully reinventing the wheel,” said Booth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That could mean taking a guest speaker visit and building in time for students to ask questions or even inviting the speaker to ask questions of the students. The key, said Booth, is shifting from one-way learning to a more reciprocal exchange. “Start to think about little places where you can implement this, or where these intergenerational connections might already be happening, and try to enhance the benefits and learning outcomes,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_65769\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 960px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-65769 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/Ivy-Mitchel-2.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"960\" height=\"540\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/Ivy-Mitchel-2.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/Ivy-Mitchel-2-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/Ivy-Mitchel-2-768x432.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 960px) 100vw, 960px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Panelists from Ivy Mitchell’s intergenerational event shared first-hand stories about the Vietnam War, the Civil Rights Movement and women’s rights.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>3. Don’t Get Into Divisive Issues Off The Bat\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>For the first event, Mitchell and her students intentionally stayed away from \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63250/politicians-love-to-talk-about-race-and-lgbtq-issues-in-school-teachers-and-teens-not-so-much\">controversial topics\u003c/a>. That decision helped create a space where both panelists and students could feel more at ease. Booth agreed that it’s important to start slow. “You don’t want to jump headfirst into some of these more sensitive issues,” she said.\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/65502/how-better-conversations-can-help-fight-misinformation-and-build-media-literacy\"> A structured conversation\u003c/a> can help build comfort and trust, which lays the groundwork for deeper, more challenging discussions down the line.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s also important to prepare older adults for how certain topics may be deeply personal to students. “A big one that we see divides with between generations is \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/61031/teen-girls-and-lgbtq-youth-plagued-by-violence-and-trauma-survey-says\">LGBTQ identities\u003c/a>,” said Booth. “Being a young person with one of those identities in the classroom and then talking to older adults who may not have this similar understanding of the expansiveness of gender identity or sexuality can be challenging.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even without diving into the most divisive topics, Mitchell felt the panel sparked rich and meaningful conversation.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>4. Leave Time For Reflection Afterwards\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Leaving \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/60009/keep-those-diaries-strategies-for-centering-student-voices-and-improving-reflection-habits\">space for students to reflect\u003c/a> after an intergenerational event is crucial, said Booth. “Talking about how it went — not just about the things you talked about, but the process of having this intergenerational conversation — is vital,” she said. “It helps cement and deepen the learnings and takeaways.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Mitchell could tell the event resonated with her students in real time. “In our auditorium, the chairs are squeaky,” she said. “Whenever we have an event they’re not interested in, the squeaking starts and you know they’re not focused. And we didn’t have that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Afterward, Mitchell invited students to write thank-you notes to the senior panelists and reflect on the experience. The feedback was overwhelmingly positive with one common theme. “All my students said consistently, ‘We wish we had more time,’” Mitchell said. “‘And we wish we’d been able to have a more authentic conversation with them.’” That feedback is shaping how Mitchell plans her next event. She wants to loosen the structure and give students more space to guide the dialogue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For Mitchell, the impact is clear. “The intergenerational voice brings so much more value and deepens the meaning of what you’re trying to do,” she said. “It makes civics come alive when you bring in people who have lived a civic life to talk about the things they’ve done and the ways they’ve connected to their community. And that can inspire kids to also connect to their community.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC2332768897\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> It’s 10am at Grace Skilled Nursing Facility in Oklahoma and a cluster of 4- and 5-year-olds bounce with excitement, their sneakers squeaking on the linoleum floor of the rec room. Around them, seniors in wheelchairs and armchairs follow along as a teacher counts off stretches. They shake out limb by limb and every once in a while a kid adds a silly flair to one of the movements and everyone cracks a little smile as they try and keep up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"633\" data-end=\"678\">\u003cem data-start=\"633\" data-end=\"676\">[Audio of teacher counting with students]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"680\" data-end=\"786\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"680\" data-end=\"696\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Kids and seniors are moving together in rhythm. This is just another Wednesday morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"788\" data-end=\"820\">\u003cem data-start=\"788\" data-end=\"818\">[Audio of grands exercising]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"822\" data-end=\"1094\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"822\" data-end=\"838\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> These preschoolers and kindergartners go to school here, inside of the senior living facility. The children are here every day—learning their ABCs, doing art projects, and eating snacks alongside the senior residents of Grace – who they call the grands.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1096\" data-end=\"1390\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1096\" data-end=\"1113\">Amanda Moore:\u003c/strong> When it originally started, it was the nursing home. And beside the nursing home was an early childhood center, which was like a daycare that was tied to our district. And so the residents and the students there at our early childhood center started making some connections.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1392\" data-end=\"1694\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1392\" data-end=\"1408\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This is Amanda Moore, the principal of Jenks West Elementary, the school inside of Grace. In the early days, the childhood center noticed the bonds that were forming between the youngest and oldest members of the community. The owners of Grace saw how much it meant to the residents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1696\" data-end=\"1784\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1696\" data-end=\"1713\">Amanda Moore:\u003c/strong> They decided, okay, what can we do to make this a full-time program?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1786\" data-end=\"1930\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1786\" data-end=\"1803\">Amanda Moore:\u003c/strong> They did a renovation and they built on space so that we could have our students there housed in the nursing home every day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1953\" data-end=\"2075\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1953\" data-end=\"1969\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This is MindShift, the podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir. Today we’ll explore how intergenerational learning works and why it might be exactly what schools need more of.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2300\" data-end=\"2518\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2300\" data-end=\"2316\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Book Buddies is one of the regular activities students at Jenks West Elementary do with the grands. Every other week, kids walk in an orderly line through the facility to meet their reading partners.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2520\" data-end=\"2660\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2520\" data-end=\"2536\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Katy Wilson, a Kindergarten teacher at the school, says just being around older adults changes how students move and act.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2662\" data-end=\"2742\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2662\" data-end=\"2678\">Katy Wilson:\u003c/strong> They start to learn body control more than a typical student.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2744\" data-end=\"2933\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2744\" data-end=\"2760\">Katy Wilson:\u003c/strong> We know we can’t run out there with the grands. We know it’s not safe. We could trip somebody. They could get hurt. We learn that balance more because it’s higher stakes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2935\" data-end=\"2987\">\u003cem data-start=\"2935\" data-end=\"2985\">[Mariah giving students their grands assignment]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2989\" data-end=\"3098\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2989\" data-end=\"3005\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> In the common room, kids settle in at tables. A teacher pairs students up with the grands.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3208\" data-end=\"3276\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3208\" data-end=\"3224\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Sometimes the kids read. Sometimes the grands do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3278\" data-end=\"3351\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3278\" data-end=\"3294\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Either way, it’s one-on-one time with a trusted adult.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3377\" data-end=\"3528\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3377\" data-end=\"3393\">Katy Wilson:\u003c/strong> And that’s something that I couldn’t accomplish in a typical classroom without all those tutors essentially built in to the program.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3530\" data-end=\"3701\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3530\" data-end=\"3546\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> And it’s working. Jenks West has tracked student progress. Kids who go through the program tend to score higher on reading assessments than their peers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3703\" data-end=\"3952\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3703\" data-end=\"3719\">Katy Wilson:\u003c/strong> They get to read books that maybe we don’t cover on the academic side that are more fun books, which is great because they get to read about what they’re interested in that maybe we wouldn’t have time for in the typical classroom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3954\" data-end=\"4020\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3954\" data-end=\"3970\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Grandma Margaret enjoys her time with the kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4022\" data-end=\"4191\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4022\" data-end=\"4043\">Grandma Margaret:\u003c/strong> I get to work with the children, and you’ll go down to read a book. Sometimes they’ll read it to you because they’ve got it memorized. Life would be kind of boring without them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4262\" data-end=\"4409\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4262\" data-end=\"4278\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> There’s also research that kids in these types of programs are more likely to have better attendance and stronger social skills. One of the long-term benefits is that students become more comfortable being around people who are different from them. Like a grand in a wheelchair, or one who doesn’t communicate easily.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4624\" data-end=\"4740\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4624\" data-end=\"4640\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Amanda told me a story about a student who left Jenks West and later attended a different school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4742\" data-end=\"5230\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4742\" data-end=\"4759\">Amanda Moore:\u003c/strong> There were some students in her class that were in wheelchairs. She said her daughter naturally befriended these students and the teacher had actually recognized that and told the mom that. And she said, I truly believe it was the interactions that she had with the residents at Grace that helped her to have that understanding and empathy and not feel like there was anything that she needed to be worried about or afraid of, that it was just a part of her every day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5232\" data-end=\"5418\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5232\" data-end=\"5248\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The program benefits the grands too. There’s evidence that older adults experience improved mental health and less social isolation when they spend time with children.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5467\" data-end=\"5628\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5467\" data-end=\"5483\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Even the grands who are bedbound benefit. Just having kids in the building—hearing their laughter and songs in the hallway—makes a difference.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5630\" data-end=\"5694\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5630\" data-end=\"5646\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> So why don’t more places have these programs?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5696\" data-end=\"5759\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5696\" data-end=\"5713\">Amanda Moore:\u003c/strong> You really have to have everybody on board.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5761\" data-end=\"5800\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5761\" data-end=\"5777\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Here’s Amanda again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5802\" data-end=\"5908\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5802\" data-end=\"5819\">Amanda Moore:\u003c/strong> Because both sides saw the benefits, we were able to create that partnership together.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5910\" data-end=\"5989\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5910\" data-end=\"5926\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> It’s likely not something that a school could do on its own.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5991\" data-end=\"6200\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5991\" data-end=\"6008\">Amanda Moore:\u003c/strong> Because it is expensive. They maintain that facility for us. If anything goes wrong in the rooms, they’re the ones that are taking care of all of that. They built a playground there for us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6202\" data-end=\"6335\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6202\" data-end=\"6218\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Grace even employs a full-time liaison, who is in charge of communication between the nursing home and the school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6337\" data-end=\"6503\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6337\" data-end=\"6354\">Amanda Moore:\u003c/strong> She is always there and she helps organize our activities. We meet monthly to plan out the activities residents are going to do with the students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6526\" data-end=\"6814\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6526\" data-end=\"6542\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Younger people interacting with older people has tons of advantages. But what if your school doesn’t have the resources to build a senior center? After the break, we look at how a middle school is making intergenerational learning work in a different way. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6856\" data-end=\"7206\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6856\" data-end=\"6872\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Before the break we learned about how intergenerational learning can boost literacy and empathy in younger children, not to mention a bunch of benefits for older adults. In a middle school classroom, those same ideas are being used in a new way—to help strengthen something that many people worry is on shaky ground: our democracy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7229\" data-end=\"7319\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7229\" data-end=\"7246\">Ivy Mitchell:\u003c/strong> My name is Ivy Mitchell. I teach eighth grade civics in Massachusetts.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7321\" data-end=\"7642\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7321\" data-end=\"7337\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> In Ivy’s civics class, students learn how to be active members of the community. They also learn that they’ll need to work with people of all ages. After more than 20 years of teaching, Ivy noticed that older and younger generations don’t often get a chance to talk to each other—unless they’re family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7644\" data-end=\"7949\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7644\" data-end=\"7661\">Ivy Mitchell:\u003c/strong> We are the most age-segregated society. This is the time when our age segregation has been the most extreme. There’s a lot of research out there on how seniors are dealing with their lack of connection to the community, because a lot of those community resources have eroded over time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7974\" data-end=\"8047\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7974\" data-end=\"7990\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When kids do talk to adults, it’s often surface level.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"8049\" data-end=\"8168\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"8049\" data-end=\"8066\">Ivy Mitchell:\u003c/strong> How’s school? How’s soccer? The moment for reflecting on your life and sharing that is pretty rare.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"8170\" data-end=\"8567\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"8170\" data-end=\"8186\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> That’s a missed opportunity for all kinds of reasons. But as a civics teacher Ivy is especially concerned about one thing: cultivating students who are interested in voting when they get older. She believes that having deeper conversations with older adults about their experiences can help students better understand the past—and maybe feel more invested in shaping the future.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"8569\" data-end=\"8764\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"8569\" data-end=\"8586\">Ivy Mitchell:\u003c/strong> Ninety percent of baby boomers believe that democracy is the best way, the only best way. Whereas like a third of young people are like, yeah, you know, we don’t have to vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"8766\" data-end=\"8839\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"8766\" data-end=\"8782\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Ivy wants to close that gap by connecting generations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"8862\" data-end=\"9109\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"8862\" data-end=\"8879\">Ivy Mitchell:\u003c/strong> Democracy is a very valuable thing. And the only place my students are hearing it is in my classroom. And if I could bring more voices in to say no, democracy has its flaws, but it’s still the best system we’ve ever discovered.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"9111\" data-end=\"9228\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"9111\" data-end=\"9127\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The idea that civic learning can come from cross-generational relationships is backed by research.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"9230\" data-end=\"9421\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"9230\" data-end=\"9250\">Ruby Belle Booth:\u003c/strong> I do a lot of thinking about youth voice and institutions, youth civic development, and how young people can be more involved in our democracy and in their communities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"9446\" data-end=\"9525\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"9446\" data-end=\"9462\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Ruby Belle Booth wrote a report about youth civic engagement. In it she says together young people and older adults can tackle big challenges facing our democracy—like polarization, culture wars, extremism, and misinformation. But sometimes, misunderstandings between generations get in the way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"9764\" data-end=\"10137\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"9764\" data-end=\"9784\">Ruby Belle Booth:\u003c/strong> Young people, I think, tend to look at older generations as having sort of antiquated views on everything. And that’s largely in part because younger generations have different views on issues. They have different experiences. They have different understandings of modern technology. And as a result, they sort of judge older generations accordingly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"10139\" data-end=\"10249\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"10139\" data-end=\"10155\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Young people’s feelings towards older generations can be summed up in two dismissive words.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"10272\" data-end=\"10375\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"10272\" data-end=\"10288\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> “OK, Boomer,” which is often said in response to an older person being out of touch.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"10377\" data-end=\"10506\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"10377\" data-end=\"10397\">Ruby Belle Booth:\u003c/strong> There’s a lot of humor and sass and attitude that young people bring to that relationship and that divide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"10508\" data-end=\"10698\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"10508\" data-end=\"10528\">Ruby Belle Booth:\u003c/strong> It speaks to the challenges that young people face in feeling like they have a voice and they feel like they’re often dismissed by older people—because often they are.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"10700\" data-end=\"10780\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"10700\" data-end=\"10716\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> And older people have thoughts about younger generations too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"10782\" data-end=\"10890\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"10782\" data-end=\"10802\">Ruby Belle Booth:\u003c/strong> Sometimes older generations are like, okay, it’s all good. Gen Z is going to save us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"10892\" data-end=\"11053\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"10892\" data-end=\"10912\">Ruby Belle Booth:\u003c/strong> That puts a lot of pressure on the very small group of Gen Z who is really activist and engaged and trying to make a lot of social change.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"11055\" data-end=\"11255\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"11055\" data-end=\"11071\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> One of the big challenges that educators face in creating intergenerational learning opportunities is the power imbalance between adults and students. And schools only amplify that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"11257\" data-end=\"11611\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"11257\" data-end=\"11277\">Ruby Belle Booth:\u003c/strong> When you move that already existing age dynamic into a school setting where all the adults in the room are holding additional power—teachers giving out grades, principals calling students to their office and having disciplinary powers—it makes it so that those already entrenched age dynamics are even more challenging to overcome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"11636\" data-end=\"11839\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"11636\" data-end=\"11652\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> One way to offset this power imbalance could be bringing people from outside of the school into the classroom, which is exactly what Ivy Mitchell, our teacher in Boston, decided to do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"11841\" data-end=\"11896\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"11841\" data-end=\"11866\">Ivy Mitchell :\u003c/strong> Thank you for coming today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"11898\" data-end=\"12021\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"11898\" data-end=\"11914\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Her students came up with a list of questions, and Ivy assembled a panel of older adults to answer them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"12023\" data-end=\"12377\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"12023\" data-end=\"12048\">Ivy Mitchell (event):\u003c/strong> The idea behind this event is I saw a problem and I’m trying to solve it. And the idea is to bring the generations together to help answer the question, why do we have civics? I know a lot of you wonder about that. And also to have them share their life experience and start building community connections, which are so vital.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"12379\" data-end=\"12510\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"12379\" data-end=\"12395\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> One by one, students took the mic and asked questions to Berta, Steve, Tony, Eileen, and Jane. Questions like…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"12512\" data-end=\"12570\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"12512\" data-end=\"12524\">Student:\u003c/strong> Do any of you think it’s hard to pay taxes?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"12572\" data-end=\"12655\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"12572\" data-end=\"12584\">Student:\u003c/strong> What is it like to be in a country at war, either at home or abroad?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"12657\" data-end=\"12774\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"12657\" data-end=\"12669\">Student:\u003c/strong> What were the major civic issues of your life, and what experiences shaped your views on these issues?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"12776\" data-end=\"12844\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"12776\" data-end=\"12792\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> And one by one they gave answers to the students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"12846\" data-end=\"13001\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"12846\" data-end=\"12865\">Steve Humphrey:\u003c/strong> I mean, I think for me, the Vietnam War, for example, was a huge issue in my lifetime, and, you know, still is. I mean, it shaped us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"13003\" data-end=\"13311\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"13003\" data-end=\"13018\">Tony Surge:\u003c/strong> Yeah, we had, in our generation, we had a lot going on at once. We also had a big civil rights movement, Martin Luther King, that you probably will study, all very historical, if you go back and look at that. So during our generation, we saw a lot of major changes inside the United States.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"13313\" data-end=\"13546\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"13313\" data-end=\"13329\">Eileen Hill:\u003c/strong> The one that I kind of remember, I was young during the Vietnam War, but women’s rights. So back in ‘74 is when women could actually get a credit card without—if they were married—without their husband’s signature.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"13548\" data-end=\"13648\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"13548\" data-end=\"13564\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> And then they flipped the panel around so elders could ask questions to students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"13650\" data-end=\"13728\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"13650\" data-end=\"13666\">Eileen Hill:\u003c/strong> What are the concerns that those of you in school have now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"13730\" data-end=\"13897\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"13730\" data-end=\"13746\">Eileen Hill:\u003c/strong> I mean, especially with computers and AI—does the AI scare any of you? Or do you feel that this is something you can really adapt to and understand?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"13899\" data-end=\"14200\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"13899\" data-end=\"13911\">Student:\u003c/strong> AI is starting to do new things. It can start to take over people’s jobs, which is concerning. There’s AI music now and my dad’s a musician, and that’s concerning because it’s not good right now, but it’s starting to get better. And it could end up taking over people’s jobs eventually.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"14202\" data-end=\"14416\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"14202\" data-end=\"14214\">Student:\u003c/strong> I think it really depends on how you’re using it. Like, it can definitely be used for good and helpful things, but if you’re using it to fake images of people or things that they said, it’s not good.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"14439\" data-end=\"14607\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"14439\" data-end=\"14455\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When Ivy debriefed with students after the event, they had overwhelmingly positive things to say. But there was one piece of feedback that stood out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"14609\" data-end=\"14764\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"14609\" data-end=\"14626\">Ivy Mitchell:\u003c/strong> All my students said consistently, we wish we had more time and we wish we’d been able to have a more authentic conversation with them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"14766\" data-end=\"14840\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"14766\" data-end=\"14783\">Ivy Mitchell:\u003c/strong> They wanted to be able to talk, to really get into it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"14842\" data-end=\"14950\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"14842\" data-end=\"14858\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Next time, she’s planning to loosen the reins and make space for more authentic dialogue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"14952\" data-end=\"15115\">Some of Ruby Belle Booth’s research inspired Ivy’s project. She noted some things that make intergenerational activities a success. Ivy did a lot of these things!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"15117\" data-end=\"15341\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"15117\" data-end=\"15133\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> One: Ivy had conversations with her students where they came up with questions and talked about the event with students and older folks. This can make everyone feel a lot more comfortable and less nervous.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"15343\" data-end=\"15500\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"15343\" data-end=\"15363\">Ruby Belle Booth:\u003c/strong> Having really clear goals and expectations is one of the easiest ways to facilitate this process for young people or for older adults.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"15502\" data-end=\"15681\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"15502\" data-end=\"15518\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Two: They didn’t get into tough and divisive questions during this first event. Maybe you don’t want to jump headfirst into some of these more sensitive issues.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"15683\" data-end=\"15919\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"15683\" data-end=\"15699\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Three: Ivy built these connections into the work she was already doing. Ivy had assigned students to interview older adults before, but she wanted to take it further. So she made those conversations part of her class.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"15921\" data-end=\"16124\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"15921\" data-end=\"15941\">Ruby Belle Booth:\u003c/strong> Thinking about how you can start with what you have I think is a really great way to start to implement this kind of intergenerational learning without fully reinventing the wheel.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"16126\" data-end=\"16202\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"16126\" data-end=\"16142\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Four: Ivy had time for reflection and feedback afterward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"16204\" data-end=\"16472\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"16204\" data-end=\"16224\">Ruby Belle Booth:\u003c/strong> Talking about how it went—not just about the things you talked about, but the process of having this intergenerational conversation for both parties—is vital to really cement, deepen, and further the learnings and takeaways from the opportunity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"16474\" data-end=\"16641\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"16474\" data-end=\"16490\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Ruby doesn’t say that intergenerational connections are the only solution for the problems our democracy faces. In fact, on its own it’s not enough.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"16664\" data-end=\"17207\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"16664\" data-end=\"16684\">Ruby Belle Booth:\u003c/strong> I think that when we’re thinking about the long-term health of democracy, it needs to be grounded in communities and connection and reciprocity. A piece of that, when we’re thinking about including more young people in democracy—having more young people turn out to vote, having more young people who see a pathway to create change in their communities—we have to be thinking about what an inclusive democracy looks like, what a democracy that welcomes young voices looks like. Our democracy has to be intergenerational.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"17209\" data-end=\"17477\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"17209\" data-end=\"17225\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> For the students, having conversations with older adults can help make history feel personal. And for the older adults, it’s a chance to share their stories and maybe even see the future a little more clearly through the eyes of the next generation.\u003c/p>\n\n",
"blocks": [],
"excerpt": "A middle school teacher is using intergenerational conversations between students and older adults to make civics education more engaging.",
"status": "publish",
"parent": 0,
"modified": 1757690550,
"stats": {
"hasAudio": true,
"hasVideo": false,
"hasChartOrMap": false,
"iframeSrcs": [],
"hasGoogleForm": false,
"hasGallery": false,
"hasHearkenModule": false,
"hasPolis": false,
"paragraphCount": 27,
"wordCount": 4173
},
"headData": {
"title": "Teaching Civics in a Divided Age? Intergenerational Dialogue Should Go Both Ways | KQED",
"description": "A middle school teacher is using intergenerational conversations between students and older adults to make civics education more engaging",
"ogTitle": "",
"ogDescription": "",
"ogImgId": "",
"twTitle": "",
"twDescription": "",
"twImgId": "",
"socialDescription": "A middle school teacher is using intergenerational conversations between students and older adults to make civics education more engaging",
"schema": {
"@context": "https://schema.org",
"@type": "Article",
"headline": "Teaching Civics in a Divided Age? Intergenerational Dialogue Should Go Both Ways",
"datePublished": "2025-09-09T03:00:57-07:00",
"dateModified": "2025-09-12T08:22:30-07:00",
"image": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"
}
},
"primaryCategory": {
"termId": 21130,
"slug": "mindshiftpodcast",
"name": "MindShift Podcast"
},
"audioUrl": "https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC2332768897.mp3?updated=1757120717",
"sticky": false,
"nprStoryId": "kqed-65767",
"templateType": "standard",
"featuredImageType": "standard",
"excludeFromSiteSearch": "Include",
"articleAge": "0",
"path": "/mindshift/65767/teaching-civics-in-a-divided-age-intergenerational-dialogue-should-go-both-ways",
"audioTrackLength": null,
"parsedContent": [
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Teacher Ivy Mitchell has spent two decades helping students understand how government works. But recently, her \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/58660/teaching-civics-soft-skills-how-do-civics-education-and-social-emotional-learning-overlap\">eighth-grade civics students \u003c/a>didn’t see a clear role for themselves in democracy, particularly because they were learning within the confines of the classroom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So, she tried something new – she invited \u003ca href=\"https://secure.smore.com/n/x2yqe\">older adults into her classroom to participate on a panel to answer a basic question\u003c/a>, “Why do we have civics?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Panelists shared first-hand stories about the Vietnam War, the Civil Rights Movement and women’s rights, which brought history to life for students in a way textbooks rarely do. In turn, the older adults asked students about their views on \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/65296/with-ai-changing-everything-heres-how-teachers-can-shape-the-new-culture-of-learning\">artificial intelligence\u003c/a> and whether they were interested in civic life and volunteering.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Her hope for both the older adults and students was that they would connect with one another through learning about each other and start building community connections.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
},
{
"type": "component",
"content": "",
"name": "ad",
"attributes": {
"named": {
"label": "fullwidth"
},
"numeric": [
"fullwidth"
]
}
},
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6728408/\">Research shows intergenerational programs\u003c/a> can improve students’ empathy, literacy and\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/54968/how-classroom-political-discussions-controversies-too-prepare-students-for-needed-civic-participation\"> civic engagement\u003c/a>, but developing those relationships outside of the home are hard to come by.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_65780\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 249px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-65780\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/0780.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"249\" height=\"311\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/0780.jpg 640w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/0780-160x200.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 249px) 100vw, 249px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Ivy Mitchell has spent two decades helping students understand how government works.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We are the \u003ca href=\"https://cogenerate.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Beyond-Passing-The-Torch.pdf\">most age segregated society,” said Mitchell.\u003c/a> “There’s a lot of research out there on how seniors are dealing with their lack of connection to the community, because a lot of those community resources have eroded over time.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While some schools like \u003ca href=\"https://www.jenksps.org/o/west-elementary/page/grace-skilled-nursing-and-therapy-center\">Jenks West Elementary in Oklahoma\u003c/a> have built daily intergenerational interaction into their infrastructure, Mitchell shows that powerful learning experiences can happen within a single classroom. Her approach to intergenerational learning is supported by four takeaways.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong style=\"font-size: 24px; color: #2b2b2b;\">1. Have Conversations With Students Before An Event\u003c/strong>\u003cbr>\nBefore the panel, Mitchell guided students through a structured \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/54378/how-to-create-deeper-student-learning-experiences-through-questions\">question-generating process\u003c/a>. She gave them broad topics to brainstorm around and encouraged them to think about what they were genuinely curious to ask someone from an older generation. After reviewing their suggestions, she selected the questions that would work best for the event and assigned student volunteers to ask them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To help the older adult panelists feel comfortable, Mitchell also hosted a brunch before the event. It gave panelists a chance to meet each other and ease into the school environment before stepping in front of a room full of eighth graders.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That kind of preparation makes a big difference, said Ruby Belle Booth, a researcher from the \u003ca href=\"https://circle.tufts.edu/\">Center for Information and Research on Civic Learning and Engagement\u003c/a> at Tufts University. “Having really clear goals and expectations is one of the easiest ways to facilitate this process for young people or for older adults,” she said. When students know what to expect, they’re more confident stepping into unfamiliar conversations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That scaffolding helped students ask thoughtful, big-picture questions like: “What were the major civic issues of your life?” and “What was it like to be in a country at war?”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>2. Build Connections Into Work You’re Already Doing\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Mitchell didn’t start from scratch. In the past, she had assigned students to interview older adults. But she noticed those conversations often stayed surface level. “How’s school? How’s soccer?” Mitchell said, summarizing the questions often asked. “The moment for reflecting on your life and sharing that is pretty rare.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She saw an opportunity to go deeper. By bringing those intergenerational conversations into her civics class, Mitchell hoped students would hear first-hand how older adults experienced civic life and begin to see themselves as future voters and engaged citizens. “\u003ca href=\"https://www.democraticknowledgeproject.org/\">[A majority] of baby boomers believe that democracy is the best system\u003c/a>,” she said. “But a third of young people are like, ‘Yeah, we don’t really have to vote.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Integrating this work into existing curriculum can be practical and powerful. “Thinking about how you can start with what you have is a really great way to implement this kind of intergenerational learning without fully reinventing the wheel,” said Booth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That could mean taking a guest speaker visit and building in time for students to ask questions or even inviting the speaker to ask questions of the students. The key, said Booth, is shifting from one-way learning to a more reciprocal exchange. “Start to think about little places where you can implement this, or where these intergenerational connections might already be happening, and try to enhance the benefits and learning outcomes,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_65769\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 960px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-65769 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/Ivy-Mitchel-2.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"960\" height=\"540\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/Ivy-Mitchel-2.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/Ivy-Mitchel-2-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/Ivy-Mitchel-2-768x432.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 960px) 100vw, 960px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Panelists from Ivy Mitchell’s intergenerational event shared first-hand stories about the Vietnam War, the Civil Rights Movement and women’s rights.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>3. Don’t Get Into Divisive Issues Off The Bat\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>For the first event, Mitchell and her students intentionally stayed away from \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63250/politicians-love-to-talk-about-race-and-lgbtq-issues-in-school-teachers-and-teens-not-so-much\">controversial topics\u003c/a>. That decision helped create a space where both panelists and students could feel more at ease. Booth agreed that it’s important to start slow. “You don’t want to jump headfirst into some of these more sensitive issues,” she said.\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/65502/how-better-conversations-can-help-fight-misinformation-and-build-media-literacy\"> A structured conversation\u003c/a> can help build comfort and trust, which lays the groundwork for deeper, more challenging discussions down the line.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s also important to prepare older adults for how certain topics may be deeply personal to students. “A big one that we see divides with between generations is \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/61031/teen-girls-and-lgbtq-youth-plagued-by-violence-and-trauma-survey-says\">LGBTQ identities\u003c/a>,” said Booth. “Being a young person with one of those identities in the classroom and then talking to older adults who may not have this similar understanding of the expansiveness of gender identity or sexuality can be challenging.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even without diving into the most divisive topics, Mitchell felt the panel sparked rich and meaningful conversation.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>4. Leave Time For Reflection Afterwards\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Leaving \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/60009/keep-those-diaries-strategies-for-centering-student-voices-and-improving-reflection-habits\">space for students to reflect\u003c/a> after an intergenerational event is crucial, said Booth. “Talking about how it went — not just about the things you talked about, but the process of having this intergenerational conversation — is vital,” she said. “It helps cement and deepen the learnings and takeaways.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Mitchell could tell the event resonated with her students in real time. “In our auditorium, the chairs are squeaky,” she said. “Whenever we have an event they’re not interested in, the squeaking starts and you know they’re not focused. And we didn’t have that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Afterward, Mitchell invited students to write thank-you notes to the senior panelists and reflect on the experience. The feedback was overwhelmingly positive with one common theme. “All my students said consistently, ‘We wish we had more time,’” Mitchell said. “‘And we wish we’d been able to have a more authentic conversation with them.’” That feedback is shaping how Mitchell plans her next event. She wants to loosen the structure and give students more space to guide the dialogue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For Mitchell, the impact is clear. “The intergenerational voice brings so much more value and deepens the meaning of what you’re trying to do,” she said. “It makes civics come alive when you bring in people who have lived a civic life to talk about the things they’ve done and the ways they’ve connected to their community. And that can inspire kids to also connect to their community.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC2332768897\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> It’s 10am at Grace Skilled Nursing Facility in Oklahoma and a cluster of 4- and 5-year-olds bounce with excitement, their sneakers squeaking on the linoleum floor of the rec room. Around them, seniors in wheelchairs and armchairs follow along as a teacher counts off stretches. They shake out limb by limb and every once in a while a kid adds a silly flair to one of the movements and everyone cracks a little smile as they try and keep up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"633\" data-end=\"678\">\u003cem data-start=\"633\" data-end=\"676\">[Audio of teacher counting with students]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"680\" data-end=\"786\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"680\" data-end=\"696\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Kids and seniors are moving together in rhythm. This is just another Wednesday morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"788\" data-end=\"820\">\u003cem data-start=\"788\" data-end=\"818\">[Audio of grands exercising]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"822\" data-end=\"1094\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"822\" data-end=\"838\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> These preschoolers and kindergartners go to school here, inside of the senior living facility. The children are here every day—learning their ABCs, doing art projects, and eating snacks alongside the senior residents of Grace – who they call the grands.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1096\" data-end=\"1390\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1096\" data-end=\"1113\">Amanda Moore:\u003c/strong> When it originally started, it was the nursing home. And beside the nursing home was an early childhood center, which was like a daycare that was tied to our district. And so the residents and the students there at our early childhood center started making some connections.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1392\" data-end=\"1694\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1392\" data-end=\"1408\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This is Amanda Moore, the principal of Jenks West Elementary, the school inside of Grace. In the early days, the childhood center noticed the bonds that were forming between the youngest and oldest members of the community. The owners of Grace saw how much it meant to the residents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1696\" data-end=\"1784\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1696\" data-end=\"1713\">Amanda Moore:\u003c/strong> They decided, okay, what can we do to make this a full-time program?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1786\" data-end=\"1930\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1786\" data-end=\"1803\">Amanda Moore:\u003c/strong> They did a renovation and they built on space so that we could have our students there housed in the nursing home every day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"1953\" data-end=\"2075\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"1953\" data-end=\"1969\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> This is MindShift, the podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir. Today we’ll explore how intergenerational learning works and why it might be exactly what schools need more of.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2300\" data-end=\"2518\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2300\" data-end=\"2316\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Book Buddies is one of the regular activities students at Jenks West Elementary do with the grands. Every other week, kids walk in an orderly line through the facility to meet their reading partners.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2520\" data-end=\"2660\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2520\" data-end=\"2536\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Katy Wilson, a Kindergarten teacher at the school, says just being around older adults changes how students move and act.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2662\" data-end=\"2742\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2662\" data-end=\"2678\">Katy Wilson:\u003c/strong> They start to learn body control more than a typical student.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2744\" data-end=\"2933\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2744\" data-end=\"2760\">Katy Wilson:\u003c/strong> We know we can’t run out there with the grands. We know it’s not safe. We could trip somebody. They could get hurt. We learn that balance more because it’s higher stakes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2935\" data-end=\"2987\">\u003cem data-start=\"2935\" data-end=\"2985\">[Mariah giving students their grands assignment]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"2989\" data-end=\"3098\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"2989\" data-end=\"3005\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> In the common room, kids settle in at tables. A teacher pairs students up with the grands.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3208\" data-end=\"3276\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3208\" data-end=\"3224\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Sometimes the kids read. Sometimes the grands do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3278\" data-end=\"3351\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3278\" data-end=\"3294\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Either way, it’s one-on-one time with a trusted adult.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3377\" data-end=\"3528\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3377\" data-end=\"3393\">Katy Wilson:\u003c/strong> And that’s something that I couldn’t accomplish in a typical classroom without all those tutors essentially built in to the program.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3530\" data-end=\"3701\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3530\" data-end=\"3546\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> And it’s working. Jenks West has tracked student progress. Kids who go through the program tend to score higher on reading assessments than their peers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3703\" data-end=\"3952\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3703\" data-end=\"3719\">Katy Wilson:\u003c/strong> They get to read books that maybe we don’t cover on the academic side that are more fun books, which is great because they get to read about what they’re interested in that maybe we wouldn’t have time for in the typical classroom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"3954\" data-end=\"4020\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"3954\" data-end=\"3970\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Grandma Margaret enjoys her time with the kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4022\" data-end=\"4191\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4022\" data-end=\"4043\">Grandma Margaret:\u003c/strong> I get to work with the children, and you’ll go down to read a book. Sometimes they’ll read it to you because they’ve got it memorized. Life would be kind of boring without them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4262\" data-end=\"4409\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4262\" data-end=\"4278\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> There’s also research that kids in these types of programs are more likely to have better attendance and stronger social skills. One of the long-term benefits is that students become more comfortable being around people who are different from them. Like a grand in a wheelchair, or one who doesn’t communicate easily.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4624\" data-end=\"4740\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4624\" data-end=\"4640\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Amanda told me a story about a student who left Jenks West and later attended a different school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"4742\" data-end=\"5230\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"4742\" data-end=\"4759\">Amanda Moore:\u003c/strong> There were some students in her class that were in wheelchairs. She said her daughter naturally befriended these students and the teacher had actually recognized that and told the mom that. And she said, I truly believe it was the interactions that she had with the residents at Grace that helped her to have that understanding and empathy and not feel like there was anything that she needed to be worried about or afraid of, that it was just a part of her every day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5232\" data-end=\"5418\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5232\" data-end=\"5248\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The program benefits the grands too. There’s evidence that older adults experience improved mental health and less social isolation when they spend time with children.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5467\" data-end=\"5628\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5467\" data-end=\"5483\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Even the grands who are bedbound benefit. Just having kids in the building—hearing their laughter and songs in the hallway—makes a difference.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5630\" data-end=\"5694\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5630\" data-end=\"5646\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> So why don’t more places have these programs?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5696\" data-end=\"5759\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5696\" data-end=\"5713\">Amanda Moore:\u003c/strong> You really have to have everybody on board.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5761\" data-end=\"5800\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5761\" data-end=\"5777\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Here’s Amanda again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5802\" data-end=\"5908\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5802\" data-end=\"5819\">Amanda Moore:\u003c/strong> Because both sides saw the benefits, we were able to create that partnership together.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5910\" data-end=\"5989\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5910\" data-end=\"5926\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> It’s likely not something that a school could do on its own.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"5991\" data-end=\"6200\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"5991\" data-end=\"6008\">Amanda Moore:\u003c/strong> Because it is expensive. They maintain that facility for us. If anything goes wrong in the rooms, they’re the ones that are taking care of all of that. They built a playground there for us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6202\" data-end=\"6335\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6202\" data-end=\"6218\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Grace even employs a full-time liaison, who is in charge of communication between the nursing home and the school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6337\" data-end=\"6503\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6337\" data-end=\"6354\">Amanda Moore:\u003c/strong> She is always there and she helps organize our activities. We meet monthly to plan out the activities residents are going to do with the students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6526\" data-end=\"6814\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6526\" data-end=\"6542\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Younger people interacting with older people has tons of advantages. But what if your school doesn’t have the resources to build a senior center? After the break, we look at how a middle school is making intergenerational learning work in a different way. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"6856\" data-end=\"7206\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"6856\" data-end=\"6872\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Before the break we learned about how intergenerational learning can boost literacy and empathy in younger children, not to mention a bunch of benefits for older adults. In a middle school classroom, those same ideas are being used in a new way—to help strengthen something that many people worry is on shaky ground: our democracy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7229\" data-end=\"7319\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7229\" data-end=\"7246\">Ivy Mitchell:\u003c/strong> My name is Ivy Mitchell. I teach eighth grade civics in Massachusetts.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7321\" data-end=\"7642\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7321\" data-end=\"7337\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> In Ivy’s civics class, students learn how to be active members of the community. They also learn that they’ll need to work with people of all ages. After more than 20 years of teaching, Ivy noticed that older and younger generations don’t often get a chance to talk to each other—unless they’re family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7644\" data-end=\"7949\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7644\" data-end=\"7661\">Ivy Mitchell:\u003c/strong> We are the most age-segregated society. This is the time when our age segregation has been the most extreme. There’s a lot of research out there on how seniors are dealing with their lack of connection to the community, because a lot of those community resources have eroded over time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"7974\" data-end=\"8047\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"7974\" data-end=\"7990\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When kids do talk to adults, it’s often surface level.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"8049\" data-end=\"8168\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"8049\" data-end=\"8066\">Ivy Mitchell:\u003c/strong> How’s school? How’s soccer? The moment for reflecting on your life and sharing that is pretty rare.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"8170\" data-end=\"8567\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"8170\" data-end=\"8186\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> That’s a missed opportunity for all kinds of reasons. But as a civics teacher Ivy is especially concerned about one thing: cultivating students who are interested in voting when they get older. She believes that having deeper conversations with older adults about their experiences can help students better understand the past—and maybe feel more invested in shaping the future.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"8569\" data-end=\"8764\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"8569\" data-end=\"8586\">Ivy Mitchell:\u003c/strong> Ninety percent of baby boomers believe that democracy is the best way, the only best way. Whereas like a third of young people are like, yeah, you know, we don’t have to vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"8766\" data-end=\"8839\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"8766\" data-end=\"8782\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Ivy wants to close that gap by connecting generations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"8862\" data-end=\"9109\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"8862\" data-end=\"8879\">Ivy Mitchell:\u003c/strong> Democracy is a very valuable thing. And the only place my students are hearing it is in my classroom. And if I could bring more voices in to say no, democracy has its flaws, but it’s still the best system we’ve ever discovered.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"9111\" data-end=\"9228\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"9111\" data-end=\"9127\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> The idea that civic learning can come from cross-generational relationships is backed by research.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"9230\" data-end=\"9421\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"9230\" data-end=\"9250\">Ruby Belle Booth:\u003c/strong> I do a lot of thinking about youth voice and institutions, youth civic development, and how young people can be more involved in our democracy and in their communities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"9446\" data-end=\"9525\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"9446\" data-end=\"9462\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Ruby Belle Booth wrote a report about youth civic engagement. In it she says together young people and older adults can tackle big challenges facing our democracy—like polarization, culture wars, extremism, and misinformation. But sometimes, misunderstandings between generations get in the way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"9764\" data-end=\"10137\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"9764\" data-end=\"9784\">Ruby Belle Booth:\u003c/strong> Young people, I think, tend to look at older generations as having sort of antiquated views on everything. And that’s largely in part because younger generations have different views on issues. They have different experiences. They have different understandings of modern technology. And as a result, they sort of judge older generations accordingly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"10139\" data-end=\"10249\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"10139\" data-end=\"10155\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Young people’s feelings towards older generations can be summed up in two dismissive words.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"10272\" data-end=\"10375\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"10272\" data-end=\"10288\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> “OK, Boomer,” which is often said in response to an older person being out of touch.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"10377\" data-end=\"10506\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"10377\" data-end=\"10397\">Ruby Belle Booth:\u003c/strong> There’s a lot of humor and sass and attitude that young people bring to that relationship and that divide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"10508\" data-end=\"10698\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"10508\" data-end=\"10528\">Ruby Belle Booth:\u003c/strong> It speaks to the challenges that young people face in feeling like they have a voice and they feel like they’re often dismissed by older people—because often they are.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"10700\" data-end=\"10780\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"10700\" data-end=\"10716\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> And older people have thoughts about younger generations too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"10782\" data-end=\"10890\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"10782\" data-end=\"10802\">Ruby Belle Booth:\u003c/strong> Sometimes older generations are like, okay, it’s all good. Gen Z is going to save us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"10892\" data-end=\"11053\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"10892\" data-end=\"10912\">Ruby Belle Booth:\u003c/strong> That puts a lot of pressure on the very small group of Gen Z who is really activist and engaged and trying to make a lot of social change.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"11055\" data-end=\"11255\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"11055\" data-end=\"11071\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> One of the big challenges that educators face in creating intergenerational learning opportunities is the power imbalance between adults and students. And schools only amplify that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"11257\" data-end=\"11611\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"11257\" data-end=\"11277\">Ruby Belle Booth:\u003c/strong> When you move that already existing age dynamic into a school setting where all the adults in the room are holding additional power—teachers giving out grades, principals calling students to their office and having disciplinary powers—it makes it so that those already entrenched age dynamics are even more challenging to overcome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"11636\" data-end=\"11839\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"11636\" data-end=\"11652\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> One way to offset this power imbalance could be bringing people from outside of the school into the classroom, which is exactly what Ivy Mitchell, our teacher in Boston, decided to do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"11841\" data-end=\"11896\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"11841\" data-end=\"11866\">Ivy Mitchell :\u003c/strong> Thank you for coming today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"11898\" data-end=\"12021\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"11898\" data-end=\"11914\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Her students came up with a list of questions, and Ivy assembled a panel of older adults to answer them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"12023\" data-end=\"12377\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"12023\" data-end=\"12048\">Ivy Mitchell (event):\u003c/strong> The idea behind this event is I saw a problem and I’m trying to solve it. And the idea is to bring the generations together to help answer the question, why do we have civics? I know a lot of you wonder about that. And also to have them share their life experience and start building community connections, which are so vital.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"12379\" data-end=\"12510\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"12379\" data-end=\"12395\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> One by one, students took the mic and asked questions to Berta, Steve, Tony, Eileen, and Jane. Questions like…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"12512\" data-end=\"12570\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"12512\" data-end=\"12524\">Student:\u003c/strong> Do any of you think it’s hard to pay taxes?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"12572\" data-end=\"12655\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"12572\" data-end=\"12584\">Student:\u003c/strong> What is it like to be in a country at war, either at home or abroad?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"12657\" data-end=\"12774\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"12657\" data-end=\"12669\">Student:\u003c/strong> What were the major civic issues of your life, and what experiences shaped your views on these issues?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"12776\" data-end=\"12844\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"12776\" data-end=\"12792\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> And one by one they gave answers to the students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"12846\" data-end=\"13001\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"12846\" data-end=\"12865\">Steve Humphrey:\u003c/strong> I mean, I think for me, the Vietnam War, for example, was a huge issue in my lifetime, and, you know, still is. I mean, it shaped us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"13003\" data-end=\"13311\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"13003\" data-end=\"13018\">Tony Surge:\u003c/strong> Yeah, we had, in our generation, we had a lot going on at once. We also had a big civil rights movement, Martin Luther King, that you probably will study, all very historical, if you go back and look at that. So during our generation, we saw a lot of major changes inside the United States.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"13313\" data-end=\"13546\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"13313\" data-end=\"13329\">Eileen Hill:\u003c/strong> The one that I kind of remember, I was young during the Vietnam War, but women’s rights. So back in ‘74 is when women could actually get a credit card without—if they were married—without their husband’s signature.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"13548\" data-end=\"13648\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"13548\" data-end=\"13564\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> And then they flipped the panel around so elders could ask questions to students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"13650\" data-end=\"13728\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"13650\" data-end=\"13666\">Eileen Hill:\u003c/strong> What are the concerns that those of you in school have now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"13730\" data-end=\"13897\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"13730\" data-end=\"13746\">Eileen Hill:\u003c/strong> I mean, especially with computers and AI—does the AI scare any of you? Or do you feel that this is something you can really adapt to and understand?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"13899\" data-end=\"14200\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"13899\" data-end=\"13911\">Student:\u003c/strong> AI is starting to do new things. It can start to take over people’s jobs, which is concerning. There’s AI music now and my dad’s a musician, and that’s concerning because it’s not good right now, but it’s starting to get better. And it could end up taking over people’s jobs eventually.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"14202\" data-end=\"14416\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"14202\" data-end=\"14214\">Student:\u003c/strong> I think it really depends on how you’re using it. Like, it can definitely be used for good and helpful things, but if you’re using it to fake images of people or things that they said, it’s not good.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"14439\" data-end=\"14607\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"14439\" data-end=\"14455\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When Ivy debriefed with students after the event, they had overwhelmingly positive things to say. But there was one piece of feedback that stood out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"14609\" data-end=\"14764\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"14609\" data-end=\"14626\">Ivy Mitchell:\u003c/strong> All my students said consistently, we wish we had more time and we wish we’d been able to have a more authentic conversation with them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"14766\" data-end=\"14840\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"14766\" data-end=\"14783\">Ivy Mitchell:\u003c/strong> They wanted to be able to talk, to really get into it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"14842\" data-end=\"14950\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"14842\" data-end=\"14858\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Next time, she’s planning to loosen the reins and make space for more authentic dialogue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"14952\" data-end=\"15115\">Some of Ruby Belle Booth’s research inspired Ivy’s project. She noted some things that make intergenerational activities a success. Ivy did a lot of these things!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"15117\" data-end=\"15341\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"15117\" data-end=\"15133\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> One: Ivy had conversations with her students where they came up with questions and talked about the event with students and older folks. This can make everyone feel a lot more comfortable and less nervous.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"15343\" data-end=\"15500\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"15343\" data-end=\"15363\">Ruby Belle Booth:\u003c/strong> Having really clear goals and expectations is one of the easiest ways to facilitate this process for young people or for older adults.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"15502\" data-end=\"15681\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"15502\" data-end=\"15518\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Two: They didn’t get into tough and divisive questions during this first event. Maybe you don’t want to jump headfirst into some of these more sensitive issues.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"15683\" data-end=\"15919\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"15683\" data-end=\"15699\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Three: Ivy built these connections into the work she was already doing. Ivy had assigned students to interview older adults before, but she wanted to take it further. So she made those conversations part of her class.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"15921\" data-end=\"16124\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"15921\" data-end=\"15941\">Ruby Belle Booth:\u003c/strong> Thinking about how you can start with what you have I think is a really great way to start to implement this kind of intergenerational learning without fully reinventing the wheel.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"16126\" data-end=\"16202\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"16126\" data-end=\"16142\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Four: Ivy had time for reflection and feedback afterward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"16204\" data-end=\"16472\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"16204\" data-end=\"16224\">Ruby Belle Booth:\u003c/strong> Talking about how it went—not just about the things you talked about, but the process of having this intergenerational conversation for both parties—is vital to really cement, deepen, and further the learnings and takeaways from the opportunity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"16474\" data-end=\"16641\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"16474\" data-end=\"16490\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Ruby doesn’t say that intergenerational connections are the only solution for the problems our democracy faces. In fact, on its own it’s not enough.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"16664\" data-end=\"17207\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"16664\" data-end=\"16684\">Ruby Belle Booth:\u003c/strong> I think that when we’re thinking about the long-term health of democracy, it needs to be grounded in communities and connection and reciprocity. A piece of that, when we’re thinking about including more young people in democracy—having more young people turn out to vote, having more young people who see a pathway to create change in their communities—we have to be thinking about what an inclusive democracy looks like, what a democracy that welcomes young voices looks like. Our democracy has to be intergenerational.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
},
{
"type": "component",
"content": "",
"name": "ad",
"attributes": {
"named": {
"label": "floatright"
},
"numeric": [
"floatright"
]
}
},
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-start=\"17209\" data-end=\"17477\">\u003cstrong data-start=\"17209\" data-end=\"17225\">Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> For the students, having conversations with older adults can help make history feel personal. And for the older adults, it’s a chance to share their stories and maybe even see the future a little more clearly through the eyes of the next generation.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
}
],
"link": "/mindshift/65767/teaching-civics-in-a-divided-age-intergenerational-dialogue-should-go-both-ways",
"authors": [
"11721"
],
"programs": [
"mindshift_21942"
],
"categories": [
"mindshift_21130",
"mindshift_193"
],
"tags": [
"mindshift_20533",
"mindshift_20558",
"mindshift_20779"
],
"featImg": "mindshift_65775",
"label": "mindshift_21942"
},
"mindshift_65725": {
"type": "posts",
"id": "mindshift_65725",
"meta": {
"index": "posts_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "65725",
"score": null,
"sort": [
1756202420000
]
},
"guestAuthors": [],
"slug": "friendship-break-ups-can-be-devastating-for-tweens-heres-how-adults-can-help",
"title": "Friendship Break Ups Can Be Devastating for Tweens. Here’s How Adults Can Help",
"publishDate": 1756202420,
"format": "audio",
"headTitle": "Friendship Break Ups Can Be Devastating for Tweens. Here’s How Adults Can Help | KQED",
"labelTerm": {
"term": 21942,
"site": "mindshift"
},
"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Leanne Davis, a researcher at Education Northwest, found out her 10-year-old son had made a sad playlist to cope with his best friend moving away. He’d listen to it at night and cry himself to sleep. “It just kind of crushed me,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Davis had known the transition would be tough, but she hadn’t realized just how deep the loss would feel. Like many adults, she underestimated how intense \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/65569/the-secret-to-staying-best-friends-forever-dont-deep-score\">childhood friendships\u003c/a> – and their endings – can be.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Friendship “breakups” are a common part of growing up. One \u003ca href=\"https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30558749/\">study of sixth graders\u003c/a> in the Los Angeles Unified School District found that two-thirds of students changed friend groups between September and June. These shifts often happen during big transitions, like starting middle or high school or developing new interests. But just because they’re common doesn’t mean they’re easy, especially during adolescence, which neuroscientists define as the period from age 10 to 25.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://lydiadenworth.com/\">Science journalist Lydia Denworth\u003c/a> has spent years researching how friendships develop across the lifespan. She says the adolescent brain is especially tuned into social dynamics. “Friendship is everything,” she said. “When it’s going well, that matters hugely. And when it’s going badly, sometimes they can’t think about anything else.” Different situations call for different kinds of support. Denworth offers insights on how adults can show up thoughtfully when friendships shift.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Talk About Friendship Early\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Denworth encourages adults to be proactive about \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63184/when-parents-know-these-4-phases-of-friendship-they-can-help-their-child-make-friends-more-easily\">supporting kids’ friendships\u003c/a>. That means talking about what healthy friendship looks like even when everything seems fine. “We ask about their grades, we ask about their activities,” she said. “We should be talking about [friendship] at least as much as we’re talking about what you got on your math test.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63456/6-ways-educators-can-bolster-boys-social-skills\">Friendship is a skill set\u003c/a>, according to Denworth, and kids don’t automatically arrive with all the tools they need. A healthy friendship, she added, is positive, long-lasting and cooperative with mutual kindness, emotional support and reciprocity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At Martin Luther King Jr. Middle School in Berkeley, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/59757/with-classroom-behavior-issues-on-the-rise-restorative-justice-offers-solutions\">restorative justice counselor\u003c/a> Chau Tran tells students early in the school year that she’s available to help with friendship issues. She’s learned that small miscommunications can quickly snowball. Support from adults can help students \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/65502/how-better-conversations-can-help-fight-misinformation-and-build-media-literacy\">express themselves clearly\u003c/a> and set better boundaries.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“At this age, they’re still kind of learning how to navigate a conflict. They’re still figuring out how to speak their truth while also learning how to sit and actively listen,” Tran said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>When a Kid Is Going Through a Breakup\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>If a child is being broken up with, it’s natural for adults to want to fix it. But Denworth says the best thing adults can do is slow down and validate the hurt. She noted that there is a tendency to minimize the pain, but developmentally their brains are responding to this social change differently than adults. “knowing that should help us\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/64516/to-raise-empathetic-children-parents-must-practice-empathy-themselves\"> have more empathy\u003c/a>,” said Denworth. “I’d say, ‘Yeah, this really hurts.’ And then just let it. Let it hurt, but be there.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s necessary for kids to go through these experiences as \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/57010/how-understanding-middle-school-friendships-can-help-students\">part of the growing up process\u003c/a>. Where adults can be helpful is by providing some context and talking about the fact that there will be a lot of change in friendships over time, according to Denworth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Saachi, a 14-year-old in Menlo Park, experienced a painful friendship fallout during her freshman year. “I just noticed they were giving signs that they just didn’t want to hang around me,” she said. Saachi was sad and confused, but she appreciated how her mom helped by staying calm and sharing similar stories from her own life. She encouraged Saachi to connect with other students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I made a lot of new friends in high school. And I’m glad I was able to branch out because of those friendship breakups,” Saachi said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>When Your Kid Is the One Ending Things\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Friendship breakups can also be hard for the person doing the breaking up. Isabel, 17, ended a friendship in high school. “When this friend got more comfortable with me, they started showing more concerning signs,” Isabel said, adding that their friend would do things without caring about consequences. “That’s where I was like, I’m not comfortable with that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Isabel didn’t talk to an adult about it because they had bad experiences with adults brushing it off in the past. They sent a text to end the friendship, then wrestled with guilt and doubt for weeks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Denworth said that’s where parents can help—not by deciding whether a friendship should end, but by helping kids think through how they’re ending it. She recommends that parents check in with kids about whether they are being kind when they break things off with a friend. “That doesn’t mean feelings won’t get hurt. But there’s no need to be unnecessarily nasty,” Denworth said. “And I do think it’s really important for parents to set some ground rules about how we treat other people.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>If you have more time, you can plan\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Leanne Davis’s son is facing another friend’s move this year, but this time, she’s planning ahead. Knowing her son and how deep his reactions were when his last friend moved away is making her think about ways that she can support him during what she knows will be a hard transition. “We’re just trying to make sure that we’re building in a lot of time for them to be together,” said Davis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She is helping her son and his friend make time to create things so that they both have tangible memories of the friendship. Additionally they are planning for what her son might send his friend when the friend moves away. “So that when he sees it, it reminds him of him and reminds him of the joy in their friendship,” added Davis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She is also ensuring lines of communication like texting or online messaging are established so that her son and his friend can communicate after the move, even if their communication eventually peters out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Like so many parents, Davis is figuring out how to walk the line between supportive and overbearing. So far, there is no perfect formula. “We need to be prepared to support him and who he is and the reactions that he’s going to have,” said Davis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC3169186124\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>Welcome to MindShift where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir. Think back to when you were a kid—did you ever have a good friend move away? One day you’re hanging out at recess, planning your next sleepover, and then suddenly… they’re just gone. No more playdates, No more inside jokes, and no say in the matter. How unfair is that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Leanne Davis, a parent in Washington State, watched her 10 year old son go through exactly that not too long ago WHEN His good friend moved to Spain. To Leanne’s surprise, her son grieved.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Leanne Davis:\u003c/strong> He made himself a sad playlist on Spotify. He listens to his playlist when he’s feeling like just really in his emotions about his friend and like his friend leaving.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> She caught him listening to it at night, crying himself to sleep.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Leanne Davis:\u003c/strong> It just kind of crushed me and then I realized like how important this these friendships were and it actually wasn’t something that we were talking about.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Today on MindShift, we’re diving into the ups and downs of friendship breakups—and how the adults in kids’ lives can help them navigate it. We’ll hear from Leanne, researchers, and teens about how to strike the right balance. All that after the break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When a kid loses a friend, it can feel heartbreaking—for them and for the parent trying to support them. But these shifts in friendship are not only common they are actually expected.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>Science journalist Lydia Denworth has spent years researching how friendships develop and function throughout all stages of life. She says that friendship during adolescence — a period neuroscientists define as spanning ages 10 to 25 — is especially unique.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth:\u003c/strong> In adolescence in particular, the brain is. Undergoing a lot of change. Most of which makes you far more attentive to social cues, to friendship, to what everybody else is doing, what they might think of you. And it’s just it’s all about friends, friends, friends, friends, friends, basically.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> That hyper-focus on friends is biological. And it’s a growing up process.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth: \u003c/strong>We want adolescents to begin to explore life outside their immediate family. We want them to learn to be independent and to take some risks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth: \u003c/strong>And the focus on friends and the importance of their social lives is part of that. It’s finding their way in the larger social world and making sense of their own identity within that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> It’s common for students to go through big friendship breakups when they are going through a school transition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth: \u003c/strong>One of the studies that I think is most surprising was done with thousands of middle schoolers in the Los Angeles School Unified School District, and they found that two thirds of sixth graders changed friends from September to June.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>Kids make friends where they spend their time—on the soccer field, in the band room, at robotics club. And as interests change, friendships can too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth: \u003c/strong>When kids are going through it, or if you went through that in sixth grade or seventh grade, you thought it was only you, right? That was that was losing your friends or feeling at sea a little bit or getting interested in—maybe you’re the you were the kid or your kid is the one who is seeking out the new relationships. But the the really important message is just how normal that is.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Saachi, a 14 year old from Menlo Park, had a close knit group of friends when she started high school\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Saachi Kaur Dhillon:\u003c/strong> We had come from middle school we all knew each other so we were just like, okay, like we’re gonna stick together.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> A few months into the school year, something shifted.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Saachi Kaur Dhillon: \u003c/strong>I just noticed like they were giving signs that they just didn’t want to hang around me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Saachi Kaur Dhillon:\u003c/strong> They would be talking to people and then i would try to talk to them, and be like oh hey like what would we like just like telling them about stuff that happened um throughout the school day and then they would just like look at me like oh yeah whatever like uh-huh uh-uh and like quickly like turn away and like dismiss me constantly and i was just like they didn’t really acknowledge my presence anymore. It was as if like I just wasn’t really there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir\u003c/strong>: It was especially painful because their friendship had once felt effortless—full of energy and care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Saachi Kaur Dhillon:\u003c/strong> We used to like talk so much like if we had if like one of us had something to say like we would sit there we’d listen we’d have like so much to say about the other person’s like story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When that dynamic disappeared, it left Saachi feeling something she didn’t expect.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Saachi Kaur Dhillon: \u003c/strong>I was kind of sad, but I was more so confused.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Saachi Kaur Dhillon:\u003c/strong> I would have liked to know what they were thinking.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Saachi Kaur Dhillon: \u003c/strong>If they had just talked to me you know maybe we would have still been friends i don’t know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> In Saachi’s case, she was left to piece together what went wrong. In other cases, ending the friendship is a conscious choice. Isabel Daniels, a 17 year old, shared their story\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Isabel Daniels: \u003c/strong>I met this friend like pretty much in like middle school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Isabel Daniels: \u003c/strong>This friendship, it’s, like, Oh, someone finally understands me and like, we finally see each other.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Isabel was drawn to their friend’s free spirit—the way they didn’t seem weighed down by other people’s opinions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Isabel Daniels: \u003c/strong>When this friend got more comfortable with me, they started showing more like…concerning signs, like that lack of care for how society thinks it’s like a double edged sword and so it’s nice in a way that like, oh, you’re free from these and expectations, but also you don’t. Like you don’t care about consequences, which can lead to a lot of like dangerous behavior. And that’s where I was like, I’m not like comfortable with that. Just because I also don’t like being labeled or having a lot of expectations put on me, it doesn’t mean I’m want to go out of my way and be like a menace in like a not fun and silly way\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> What began as carefree fun started to feel unsafe. Isabel knew they needed to end the friendship.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Isabel Daniels: \u003c/strong>It’s like fun while it lasts, but then you realize that fun comes with a cost.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When the time came to break things off, Isabel didn’t feel like they could do it in person.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Isabel Daniels:\u003c/strong> I unfortunately broke up with this friend over text, blocked their number and then didn’t look back after that which only added to the guilt, because I didn’t give this friend a chance to explain, to give their piece. Like we didn’t have a conversation. I just like sent it, blocked, and then tried to move on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>Isabel was certain the friendship needed to end, and they haven’t talked to the friend since, but they were left with lingering questions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Isabel Daniels:\u003c/strong> What if, like, what would this person say? Could have things been different if we both just talked?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Even though Isabel was grappling with some big questions, they did not reach out for support.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Isabel Daniels:\u003c/strong> I was very against asking help, especially from adults.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>To Isabel, adults didn’t feel like a helpful option. They worried they wouldn’t be understood, or that the advice would miss the nuance of what they were going through.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Isabel Daniels: \u003c/strong>Things tend to be watered down when you are talking to someone older than you because they view you as like oh you’re just not like fully mentally developed you just haven’t um seen life enough and that this is just part of that, but these are significant moments in our life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> They had memories of adults falling short when it came to helping with friendships. For example, Isabel has this story from when they were younger\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Isabel Daniels:\u003c/strong> I was telling an adult that this kid was being a bit too rough with me when we were playing. This kid was a boy so you know what the adults told me? Oh that just means he likes you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Lydia Denworth, the science journalist we heard from earlier, has some helpful insights about where adults often go wrong—and what they can do instead. She recommends adults have conversations with kids about friendship before things go wrong.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth:\u003c/strong> We should be talking about that at least as much as we’re talking about what you got on your math test or, you know, whether you got the main lead role in the musical.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth:\u003c/strong> We ask about their grades, we ask about their activities and what they’re doing. And we put pressure on those things and we want to know about their friends too, but what we don’t realize is that\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth:\u003c/strong> We can help kids understand that friendship is a set of social skills and that it is those are skills that we benefit from practice and that kids don’t necessarily come into the world having all of them ready to go.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Defining what a good and healthy friendship looks like early on can not only help them have stronger friendships, but also better romantic and family relationships.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth:\u003c/strong> A really good quality friendship has three things. It’s long lasting, it’s positive and it’s cooperative. So that means that a good friend is a steady, stable presence in your life. They make you feel good. So they’re kind. They say nice things.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth: \u003c/strong>And then the co operative piece is the reciprocity, the the back and forth, the helpfulness, the sort of showing up and listening and and not having a relationship that’s lopsided.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> And just because someone’s been your friend for a long time, doesn’t mean they’re still a good friend.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth:\u003c/strong> The longer term relationships we often just sort of stick with because we have that shared history piece. But if they’re not positive any more, if they’re not making you feel better, then they might not be a really healthy relationship.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When a child is experiencing a friendship breakup, Lydia suggests adults resist the urge to fix it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth: \u003c/strong>You can’t necessarily just make it all better.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth: \u003c/strong>We need to understand that kids need to go through these experiences and this process. But where adults can be helpful is by providing some context, by talking about the fact that there will be a lot of change in friendships over time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> That also means validating the pain kids are feeling. It’ll be hard, but don’t jump in and convince kids that it isn’t a big deal. Downplaying the situation is well intentioned but it can backfire.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth: \u003c/strong>I spoke earlier about how much the adolescent brain is changing. It’s almost at the same level that a toddler’s brain is changing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth:\u003c/strong> The result is that not only are they really primed for social things, but they’re also their emotions are literally heightened.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth:\u003c/strong> Friendship is everything. And so when it’s going well, that matters hugely. And when it’s going badly, sometimes they can’t think about anything else.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> In other words the feelings that kids are bringing to their social relationships are real for them and they aren’t the same for us adults.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth: \u003c/strong>Literally our brains are responding differently and knowing that should help us have more empathy\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth:\u003c/strong> I’d say, Yeah, this really hurts. You know, I’m. And then just just let it, let it hurt like and, but be there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> And if a child wants to keep talking you can follow their lead by sharing your own experiences with friendship.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth: \u003c/strong>Talk about maybe a time that you had a friendship that that fell apart or where somebody got hurt and what you did to mend it if you did or or why you didn’t.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Saachi, the freshman I talked to earlier, told me that she appreciated the way her mom did this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Saachi Kaur Dhillon:\u003c/strong> My mom she’s always been a very like calm individual like it takes a lot to tip her over the edge like she’s very like she wasn’t freaking out because she’s had a lot of like life experience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Saachi Kaur Dhillon:\u003c/strong> She’s like i had friends like that like i dealt with that and it’s just like she was calm and that made me calm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>When her mom said she’d eventually make new friends who treated her better, Saachi wasn’t so sure. But she tried to talk to new people in her classes\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Saachi Kaur Dhillon:\u003c/strong> She was right, because I made a lot of new friends in high school. And I’m glad I was able to branch out because of those friendship breakups.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>If your child is the one ending a friendship, it’s worth checking in—not to control their choice, but to help them think through how they’re doing it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth:\u003c/strong> Are they being kind? Are they being thoughtful? That doesn’t mean feelings won’t get hurt. But but there’s no need to be unnecessarily nasty.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth:\u003c/strong> And I do think it’s really important for parents to set some ground rules about how we treat other people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Let’s return to Leanne Davis, the mom we heard from earlier. When she saw how hard her son took the loss, she realized she’d underestimated the seriousness of childhood friendships.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Leanne Davis:\u003c/strong> I moved a lot as an adult. My husband moved a a lot and I think we were tending, it took us a couple steps to be like, well, wait a minute, this is this kid and this kid is very different than other kid and. very different than maybe how we would do this. I need to be prepared to support him and who he is and like the reactions that he’s going to have.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>This year another one of her son’s friends is moving away. And …this kid can’t catch a break…his friend is moving to Australia. But this time, Leanne is thinking about it differently.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Leanne Davis:\u003c/strong> Now, knowing that this is happening and this is gonna be really rough we’re just trying to make sure that we’re building in a lot of time, for them to be together.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> She’s helping him make memories—something tangible to remember the friendship by.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Leanne Davis:\u003c/strong> Finding ways to like document some of their memories and things they’re doing together. Like he and I are planning for what would he like to send his friend when his friend leaves, or something that he’d like to make that, you know, that when he sees it, it reminds him of him and reminds him of like the joy in their friendship.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> And she’s also planning for what happens after the move.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Leanne Davis: \u003c/strong>He does text his friends, like on, he can like message him from the computer. So making sure that they’re able to communicate that way. and that it’s established before they leave, knowing that it may eventually fade out, but that that’s a way for them to know that they can get in touch with each other.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir\u003c/strong>: Like so many parents, Leanne’s figuring out how to walk the line between supportive and overbearing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> And maybe that’s the real work of showing up for kids—not having the perfect response, but staying close enough to notice what they need, and giving them space to figure the rest out themselves. Because in the end, friendship breakups are just part of growing up. But having someone who sees you through it can make all the difference.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\n",
"blocks": [],
"excerpt": "From teens’ stories to expert advice, this episode dives into how young people cope with friendship breakups and what adults can do to help.",
"status": "publish",
"parent": 0,
"modified": 1756186281,
"stats": {
"hasAudio": true,
"hasVideo": false,
"hasChartOrMap": false,
"iframeSrcs": [],
"hasGoogleForm": false,
"hasGallery": false,
"hasHearkenModule": false,
"hasPolis": false,
"paragraphCount": 106,
"wordCount": 4120
},
"headData": {
"title": "Friendship Break Ups Can Be Devastating for Tweens. Here’s How Adults Can Help | KQED",
"description": "From teens’ stories to expert advice, this episode dives into how young people cope with friendship breakups and what adults can do to help.",
"ogTitle": "",
"ogDescription": "",
"ogImgId": "",
"twTitle": "",
"twDescription": "",
"twImgId": "",
"socialDescription": "From teens’ stories to expert advice, this episode dives into how young people cope with friendship breakups and what adults can do to help.",
"schema": {
"@context": "https://schema.org",
"@type": "Article",
"headline": "Friendship Break Ups Can Be Devastating for Tweens. Here’s How Adults Can Help",
"datePublished": "2025-08-26T03:00:20-07:00",
"dateModified": "2025-08-25T22:31:21-07:00",
"image": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"
}
},
"primaryCategory": {
"termId": 21512,
"slug": "belonging",
"name": "Belonging"
},
"audioUrl": "https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC3169186124.mp3?updated=1756156084",
"sticky": false,
"templateType": "standard",
"featuredImageType": "standard",
"excludeFromSiteSearch": "Include",
"articleAge": "0",
"path": "/mindshift/65725/friendship-break-ups-can-be-devastating-for-tweens-heres-how-adults-can-help",
"audioTrackLength": null,
"parsedContent": [
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Leanne Davis, a researcher at Education Northwest, found out her 10-year-old son had made a sad playlist to cope with his best friend moving away. He’d listen to it at night and cry himself to sleep. “It just kind of crushed me,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Davis had known the transition would be tough, but she hadn’t realized just how deep the loss would feel. Like many adults, she underestimated how intense \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/65569/the-secret-to-staying-best-friends-forever-dont-deep-score\">childhood friendships\u003c/a> – and their endings – can be.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Friendship “breakups” are a common part of growing up. One \u003ca href=\"https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30558749/\">study of sixth graders\u003c/a> in the Los Angeles Unified School District found that two-thirds of students changed friend groups between September and June. These shifts often happen during big transitions, like starting middle or high school or developing new interests. But just because they’re common doesn’t mean they’re easy, especially during adolescence, which neuroscientists define as the period from age 10 to 25.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://lydiadenworth.com/\">Science journalist Lydia Denworth\u003c/a> has spent years researching how friendships develop across the lifespan. She says the adolescent brain is especially tuned into social dynamics. “Friendship is everything,” she said. “When it’s going well, that matters hugely. And when it’s going badly, sometimes they can’t think about anything else.” Different situations call for different kinds of support. Denworth offers insights on how adults can show up thoughtfully when friendships shift.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Talk About Friendship Early\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Denworth encourages adults to be proactive about \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63184/when-parents-know-these-4-phases-of-friendship-they-can-help-their-child-make-friends-more-easily\">supporting kids’ friendships\u003c/a>. That means talking about what healthy friendship looks like even when everything seems fine. “We ask about their grades, we ask about their activities,” she said. “We should be talking about [friendship] at least as much as we’re talking about what you got on your math test.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
},
{
"type": "component",
"content": "",
"name": "ad",
"attributes": {
"named": {
"label": "fullwidth"
},
"numeric": [
"fullwidth"
]
}
},
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63456/6-ways-educators-can-bolster-boys-social-skills\">Friendship is a skill set\u003c/a>, according to Denworth, and kids don’t automatically arrive with all the tools they need. A healthy friendship, she added, is positive, long-lasting and cooperative with mutual kindness, emotional support and reciprocity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At Martin Luther King Jr. Middle School in Berkeley, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/59757/with-classroom-behavior-issues-on-the-rise-restorative-justice-offers-solutions\">restorative justice counselor\u003c/a> Chau Tran tells students early in the school year that she’s available to help with friendship issues. She’s learned that small miscommunications can quickly snowball. Support from adults can help students \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/65502/how-better-conversations-can-help-fight-misinformation-and-build-media-literacy\">express themselves clearly\u003c/a> and set better boundaries.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“At this age, they’re still kind of learning how to navigate a conflict. They’re still figuring out how to speak their truth while also learning how to sit and actively listen,” Tran said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>When a Kid Is Going Through a Breakup\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>If a child is being broken up with, it’s natural for adults to want to fix it. But Denworth says the best thing adults can do is slow down and validate the hurt. She noted that there is a tendency to minimize the pain, but developmentally their brains are responding to this social change differently than adults. “knowing that should help us\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/64516/to-raise-empathetic-children-parents-must-practice-empathy-themselves\"> have more empathy\u003c/a>,” said Denworth. “I’d say, ‘Yeah, this really hurts.’ And then just let it. Let it hurt, but be there.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s necessary for kids to go through these experiences as \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/57010/how-understanding-middle-school-friendships-can-help-students\">part of the growing up process\u003c/a>. Where adults can be helpful is by providing some context and talking about the fact that there will be a lot of change in friendships over time, according to Denworth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Saachi, a 14-year-old in Menlo Park, experienced a painful friendship fallout during her freshman year. “I just noticed they were giving signs that they just didn’t want to hang around me,” she said. Saachi was sad and confused, but she appreciated how her mom helped by staying calm and sharing similar stories from her own life. She encouraged Saachi to connect with other students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I made a lot of new friends in high school. And I’m glad I was able to branch out because of those friendship breakups,” Saachi said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>When Your Kid Is the One Ending Things\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Friendship breakups can also be hard for the person doing the breaking up. Isabel, 17, ended a friendship in high school. “When this friend got more comfortable with me, they started showing more concerning signs,” Isabel said, adding that their friend would do things without caring about consequences. “That’s where I was like, I’m not comfortable with that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Isabel didn’t talk to an adult about it because they had bad experiences with adults brushing it off in the past. They sent a text to end the friendship, then wrestled with guilt and doubt for weeks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Denworth said that’s where parents can help—not by deciding whether a friendship should end, but by helping kids think through how they’re ending it. She recommends that parents check in with kids about whether they are being kind when they break things off with a friend. “That doesn’t mean feelings won’t get hurt. But there’s no need to be unnecessarily nasty,” Denworth said. “And I do think it’s really important for parents to set some ground rules about how we treat other people.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>If you have more time, you can plan\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Leanne Davis’s son is facing another friend’s move this year, but this time, she’s planning ahead. Knowing her son and how deep his reactions were when his last friend moved away is making her think about ways that she can support him during what she knows will be a hard transition. “We’re just trying to make sure that we’re building in a lot of time for them to be together,” said Davis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She is helping her son and his friend make time to create things so that they both have tangible memories of the friendship. Additionally they are planning for what her son might send his friend when the friend moves away. “So that when he sees it, it reminds him of him and reminds him of the joy in their friendship,” added Davis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She is also ensuring lines of communication like texting or online messaging are established so that her son and his friend can communicate after the move, even if their communication eventually peters out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Like so many parents, Davis is figuring out how to walk the line between supportive and overbearing. So far, there is no perfect formula. “We need to be prepared to support him and who he is and the reactions that he’s going to have,” said Davis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC3169186124\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>Welcome to MindShift where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir. Think back to when you were a kid—did you ever have a good friend move away? One day you’re hanging out at recess, planning your next sleepover, and then suddenly… they’re just gone. No more playdates, No more inside jokes, and no say in the matter. How unfair is that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Leanne Davis, a parent in Washington State, watched her 10 year old son go through exactly that not too long ago WHEN His good friend moved to Spain. To Leanne’s surprise, her son grieved.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Leanne Davis:\u003c/strong> He made himself a sad playlist on Spotify. He listens to his playlist when he’s feeling like just really in his emotions about his friend and like his friend leaving.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> She caught him listening to it at night, crying himself to sleep.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Leanne Davis:\u003c/strong> It just kind of crushed me and then I realized like how important this these friendships were and it actually wasn’t something that we were talking about.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Today on MindShift, we’re diving into the ups and downs of friendship breakups—and how the adults in kids’ lives can help them navigate it. We’ll hear from Leanne, researchers, and teens about how to strike the right balance. All that after the break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When a kid loses a friend, it can feel heartbreaking—for them and for the parent trying to support them. But these shifts in friendship are not only common they are actually expected.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>Science journalist Lydia Denworth has spent years researching how friendships develop and function throughout all stages of life. She says that friendship during adolescence — a period neuroscientists define as spanning ages 10 to 25 — is especially unique.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth:\u003c/strong> In adolescence in particular, the brain is. Undergoing a lot of change. Most of which makes you far more attentive to social cues, to friendship, to what everybody else is doing, what they might think of you. And it’s just it’s all about friends, friends, friends, friends, friends, basically.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> That hyper-focus on friends is biological. And it’s a growing up process.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth: \u003c/strong>We want adolescents to begin to explore life outside their immediate family. We want them to learn to be independent and to take some risks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth: \u003c/strong>And the focus on friends and the importance of their social lives is part of that. It’s finding their way in the larger social world and making sense of their own identity within that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> It’s common for students to go through big friendship breakups when they are going through a school transition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth: \u003c/strong>One of the studies that I think is most surprising was done with thousands of middle schoolers in the Los Angeles School Unified School District, and they found that two thirds of sixth graders changed friends from September to June.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>Kids make friends where they spend their time—on the soccer field, in the band room, at robotics club. And as interests change, friendships can too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth: \u003c/strong>When kids are going through it, or if you went through that in sixth grade or seventh grade, you thought it was only you, right? That was that was losing your friends or feeling at sea a little bit or getting interested in—maybe you’re the you were the kid or your kid is the one who is seeking out the new relationships. But the the really important message is just how normal that is.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Saachi, a 14 year old from Menlo Park, had a close knit group of friends when she started high school\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Saachi Kaur Dhillon:\u003c/strong> We had come from middle school we all knew each other so we were just like, okay, like we’re gonna stick together.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> A few months into the school year, something shifted.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Saachi Kaur Dhillon: \u003c/strong>I just noticed like they were giving signs that they just didn’t want to hang around me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Saachi Kaur Dhillon:\u003c/strong> They would be talking to people and then i would try to talk to them, and be like oh hey like what would we like just like telling them about stuff that happened um throughout the school day and then they would just like look at me like oh yeah whatever like uh-huh uh-uh and like quickly like turn away and like dismiss me constantly and i was just like they didn’t really acknowledge my presence anymore. It was as if like I just wasn’t really there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir\u003c/strong>: It was especially painful because their friendship had once felt effortless—full of energy and care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Saachi Kaur Dhillon:\u003c/strong> We used to like talk so much like if we had if like one of us had something to say like we would sit there we’d listen we’d have like so much to say about the other person’s like story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When that dynamic disappeared, it left Saachi feeling something she didn’t expect.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Saachi Kaur Dhillon: \u003c/strong>I was kind of sad, but I was more so confused.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Saachi Kaur Dhillon:\u003c/strong> I would have liked to know what they were thinking.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Saachi Kaur Dhillon: \u003c/strong>If they had just talked to me you know maybe we would have still been friends i don’t know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> In Saachi’s case, she was left to piece together what went wrong. In other cases, ending the friendship is a conscious choice. Isabel Daniels, a 17 year old, shared their story\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Isabel Daniels: \u003c/strong>I met this friend like pretty much in like middle school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Isabel Daniels: \u003c/strong>This friendship, it’s, like, Oh, someone finally understands me and like, we finally see each other.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Isabel was drawn to their friend’s free spirit—the way they didn’t seem weighed down by other people’s opinions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Isabel Daniels: \u003c/strong>When this friend got more comfortable with me, they started showing more like…concerning signs, like that lack of care for how society thinks it’s like a double edged sword and so it’s nice in a way that like, oh, you’re free from these and expectations, but also you don’t. Like you don’t care about consequences, which can lead to a lot of like dangerous behavior. And that’s where I was like, I’m not like comfortable with that. Just because I also don’t like being labeled or having a lot of expectations put on me, it doesn’t mean I’m want to go out of my way and be like a menace in like a not fun and silly way\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> What began as carefree fun started to feel unsafe. Isabel knew they needed to end the friendship.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Isabel Daniels: \u003c/strong>It’s like fun while it lasts, but then you realize that fun comes with a cost.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When the time came to break things off, Isabel didn’t feel like they could do it in person.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Isabel Daniels:\u003c/strong> I unfortunately broke up with this friend over text, blocked their number and then didn’t look back after that which only added to the guilt, because I didn’t give this friend a chance to explain, to give their piece. Like we didn’t have a conversation. I just like sent it, blocked, and then tried to move on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>Isabel was certain the friendship needed to end, and they haven’t talked to the friend since, but they were left with lingering questions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Isabel Daniels:\u003c/strong> What if, like, what would this person say? Could have things been different if we both just talked?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Even though Isabel was grappling with some big questions, they did not reach out for support.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Isabel Daniels:\u003c/strong> I was very against asking help, especially from adults.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>To Isabel, adults didn’t feel like a helpful option. They worried they wouldn’t be understood, or that the advice would miss the nuance of what they were going through.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Isabel Daniels: \u003c/strong>Things tend to be watered down when you are talking to someone older than you because they view you as like oh you’re just not like fully mentally developed you just haven’t um seen life enough and that this is just part of that, but these are significant moments in our life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> They had memories of adults falling short when it came to helping with friendships. For example, Isabel has this story from when they were younger\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Isabel Daniels:\u003c/strong> I was telling an adult that this kid was being a bit too rough with me when we were playing. This kid was a boy so you know what the adults told me? Oh that just means he likes you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Lydia Denworth, the science journalist we heard from earlier, has some helpful insights about where adults often go wrong—and what they can do instead. She recommends adults have conversations with kids about friendship before things go wrong.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth:\u003c/strong> We should be talking about that at least as much as we’re talking about what you got on your math test or, you know, whether you got the main lead role in the musical.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth:\u003c/strong> We ask about their grades, we ask about their activities and what they’re doing. And we put pressure on those things and we want to know about their friends too, but what we don’t realize is that\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth:\u003c/strong> We can help kids understand that friendship is a set of social skills and that it is those are skills that we benefit from practice and that kids don’t necessarily come into the world having all of them ready to go.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Defining what a good and healthy friendship looks like early on can not only help them have stronger friendships, but also better romantic and family relationships.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth:\u003c/strong> A really good quality friendship has three things. It’s long lasting, it’s positive and it’s cooperative. So that means that a good friend is a steady, stable presence in your life. They make you feel good. So they’re kind. They say nice things.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth: \u003c/strong>And then the co operative piece is the reciprocity, the the back and forth, the helpfulness, the sort of showing up and listening and and not having a relationship that’s lopsided.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> And just because someone’s been your friend for a long time, doesn’t mean they’re still a good friend.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth:\u003c/strong> The longer term relationships we often just sort of stick with because we have that shared history piece. But if they’re not positive any more, if they’re not making you feel better, then they might not be a really healthy relationship.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> When a child is experiencing a friendship breakup, Lydia suggests adults resist the urge to fix it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth: \u003c/strong>You can’t necessarily just make it all better.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth: \u003c/strong>We need to understand that kids need to go through these experiences and this process. But where adults can be helpful is by providing some context, by talking about the fact that there will be a lot of change in friendships over time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> That also means validating the pain kids are feeling. It’ll be hard, but don’t jump in and convince kids that it isn’t a big deal. Downplaying the situation is well intentioned but it can backfire.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth: \u003c/strong>I spoke earlier about how much the adolescent brain is changing. It’s almost at the same level that a toddler’s brain is changing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth:\u003c/strong> The result is that not only are they really primed for social things, but they’re also their emotions are literally heightened.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth:\u003c/strong> Friendship is everything. And so when it’s going well, that matters hugely. And when it’s going badly, sometimes they can’t think about anything else.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> In other words the feelings that kids are bringing to their social relationships are real for them and they aren’t the same for us adults.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth: \u003c/strong>Literally our brains are responding differently and knowing that should help us have more empathy\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth:\u003c/strong> I’d say, Yeah, this really hurts. You know, I’m. And then just just let it, let it hurt like and, but be there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> And if a child wants to keep talking you can follow their lead by sharing your own experiences with friendship.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth: \u003c/strong>Talk about maybe a time that you had a friendship that that fell apart or where somebody got hurt and what you did to mend it if you did or or why you didn’t.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Saachi, the freshman I talked to earlier, told me that she appreciated the way her mom did this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Saachi Kaur Dhillon:\u003c/strong> My mom she’s always been a very like calm individual like it takes a lot to tip her over the edge like she’s very like she wasn’t freaking out because she’s had a lot of like life experience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Saachi Kaur Dhillon:\u003c/strong> She’s like i had friends like that like i dealt with that and it’s just like she was calm and that made me calm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>When her mom said she’d eventually make new friends who treated her better, Saachi wasn’t so sure. But she tried to talk to new people in her classes\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Saachi Kaur Dhillon:\u003c/strong> She was right, because I made a lot of new friends in high school. And I’m glad I was able to branch out because of those friendship breakups.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>If your child is the one ending a friendship, it’s worth checking in—not to control their choice, but to help them think through how they’re doing it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth:\u003c/strong> Are they being kind? Are they being thoughtful? That doesn’t mean feelings won’t get hurt. But but there’s no need to be unnecessarily nasty.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lydia Denworth:\u003c/strong> And I do think it’s really important for parents to set some ground rules about how we treat other people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> Let’s return to Leanne Davis, the mom we heard from earlier. When she saw how hard her son took the loss, she realized she’d underestimated the seriousness of childhood friendships.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Leanne Davis:\u003c/strong> I moved a lot as an adult. My husband moved a a lot and I think we were tending, it took us a couple steps to be like, well, wait a minute, this is this kid and this kid is very different than other kid and. very different than maybe how we would do this. I need to be prepared to support him and who he is and like the reactions that he’s going to have.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir: \u003c/strong>This year another one of her son’s friends is moving away. And …this kid can’t catch a break…his friend is moving to Australia. But this time, Leanne is thinking about it differently.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Leanne Davis:\u003c/strong> Now, knowing that this is happening and this is gonna be really rough we’re just trying to make sure that we’re building in a lot of time, for them to be together.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> She’s helping him make memories—something tangible to remember the friendship by.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Leanne Davis:\u003c/strong> Finding ways to like document some of their memories and things they’re doing together. Like he and I are planning for what would he like to send his friend when his friend leaves, or something that he’d like to make that, you know, that when he sees it, it reminds him of him and reminds him of like the joy in their friendship.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> And she’s also planning for what happens after the move.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Leanne Davis: \u003c/strong>He does text his friends, like on, he can like message him from the computer. So making sure that they’re able to communicate that way. and that it’s established before they leave, knowing that it may eventually fade out, but that that’s a way for them to know that they can get in touch with each other.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir\u003c/strong>: Like so many parents, Leanne’s figuring out how to walk the line between supportive and overbearing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nimah Gobir:\u003c/strong> And maybe that’s the real work of showing up for kids—not having the perfect response, but staying close enough to notice what they need, and giving them space to figure the rest out themselves. Because in the end, friendship breakups are just part of growing up. But having someone who sees you through it can make all the difference.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
},
{
"type": "component",
"content": "",
"name": "ad",
"attributes": {
"named": {
"label": "floatright"
},
"numeric": [
"floatright"
]
}
},
{
"type": "contentString",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
"attributes": {
"named": {},
"numeric": []
}
}
],
"link": "/mindshift/65725/friendship-break-ups-can-be-devastating-for-tweens-heres-how-adults-can-help",
"authors": [
"11721"
],
"programs": [
"mindshift_21942"
],
"categories": [
"mindshift_21512",
"mindshift_21130"
],
"tags": [
"mindshift_20699",
"mindshift_21336",
"mindshift_20568",
"mindshift_381"
],
"featImg": "mindshift_65726",
"label": "mindshift_21942"
}
},
"programsReducer": {
"possible": {
"id": "possible",
"title": "Possible",
"info": "Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? Each episode also includes a short fiction story generated by advanced AI GPT-4, serving as a thought-provoking springboard to speculate how humanity could leverage technology for good.",
"airtime": "SUN 2pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Possible-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.possible.fm/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "Possible"
},
"link": "/radio/program/possible",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/possible/id1677184070",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/730YpdUSNlMyPQwNnyjp4k"
}
},
"1a": {
"id": "1a",
"title": "1A",
"info": "1A is home to the national conversation. 1A brings on great guests and frames the best debate in ways that make you think, share and engage.",
"airtime": "MON-THU 11pm-12am",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/1a.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://the1a.org/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/1a",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/RBrW",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=1188724250&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/1A-p947376/",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510316/podcast.xml"
}
},
"all-things-considered": {
"id": "all-things-considered",
"title": "All Things Considered",
"info": "Every weekday, \u003cem>All Things Considered\u003c/em> hosts Robert Siegel, Audie Cornish, Ari Shapiro, and Kelly McEvers present the program's trademark mix of news, interviews, commentaries, reviews, and offbeat features. Michel Martin hosts on the weekends.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 1pm-2pm, 4:30pm-6:30pm\u003cbr />SAT-SUN 5pm-6pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/All-Things-Considered-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/programs/all-things-considered/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/all-things-considered"
},
"american-suburb-podcast": {
"id": "american-suburb-podcast",
"title": "American Suburb: The Podcast",
"tagline": "The flip side of gentrification, told through one town",
"info": "Gentrification is changing cities across America, forcing people from neighborhoods they have long called home. Call them the displaced. Now those priced out of the Bay Area are looking for a better life in an unlikely place. American Suburb follows this migration to one California town along the Delta, 45 miles from San Francisco. But is this once sleepy suburb ready for them?",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/American-Suburb-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/news/series/american-suburb-podcast",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 19
},
"link": "/news/series/american-suburb-podcast/",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/RBrW",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?mt=2&id=1287748328",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/American-Suburb-p1086805/",
"rss": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/series/american-suburb-podcast/feed/podcast",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkMzMDExODgxNjA5"
}
},
"baycurious": {
"id": "baycurious",
"title": "Bay Curious",
"tagline": "Exploring the Bay Area, one question at a time",
"info": "KQED’s new podcast, Bay Curious, gets to the bottom of the mysteries — both profound and peculiar — that give the Bay Area its unique identity. And we’ll do it with your help! You ask the questions. You decide what Bay Curious investigates. And you join us on the journey to find the answers.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Bay-Curious-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "\"KQED Bay Curious",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/news/series/baycurious",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 4
},
"link": "/podcasts/baycurious",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious",
"rss": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/category/bay-curious-podcast/feed/podcast",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93dzIua3FlZC5vcmcvbmV3cy9jYXRlZ29yeS9iYXktY3VyaW91cy1wb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQvcG9kY2FzdA",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/bay-curious",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/6O76IdmhixfijmhTZLIJ8k"
}
},
"bbc-world-service": {
"id": "bbc-world-service",
"title": "BBC World Service",
"info": "The day's top stories from BBC News compiled twice daily in the week, once at weekends.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 9pm-10pm, TUE-FRI 1am-2am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/BBC-World-Service-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_world_service",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "BBC World Service"
},
"link": "/radio/program/bbc-world-service",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/global-news-podcast/id135067274?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/BBC-World-Service-p455581/",
"rss": "https://podcasts.files.bbci.co.uk/p02nq0gn.rss"
}
},
"code-switch-life-kit": {
"id": "code-switch-life-kit",
"title": "Code Switch / Life Kit",
"info": "\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em>, which listeners will hear in the first part of the hour, has fearless and much-needed conversations about race. Hosted by journalists of color, the show tackles the subject of race head-on, exploring how it impacts every part of society — from politics and pop culture to history, sports and more.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em>, which will be in the second part of the hour, guides you through spaces and feelings no one prepares you for — from finances to mental health, from workplace microaggressions to imposter syndrome, from relationships to parenting. The show features experts with real world experience and shares their knowledge. Because everyone needs a little help being human.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510312/codeswitch\">\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/lifekit\">\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />",
"airtime": "SUN 9pm-10pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Code-Switch-Life-Kit-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/code-switch-life-kit",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/1112190608?mt=2&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnByLm9yZy9yc3MvcG9kY2FzdC5waHA_aWQ9NTEwMzEy",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/3bExJ9JQpkwNhoHvaIIuyV",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510312/podcast.xml"
}
},
"commonwealth-club": {
"id": "commonwealth-club",
"title": "Commonwealth Club of California Podcast",
"info": "The Commonwealth Club of California is the nation's oldest and largest public affairs forum. As a non-partisan forum, The Club brings to the public airwaves diverse viewpoints on important topics. The Club's weekly radio broadcast - the oldest in the U.S., dating back to 1924 - is carried across the nation on public radio stations and is now podcasting. Our website archive features audio of our recent programs, as well as selected speeches from our long and distinguished history. This podcast feed is usually updated twice a week and is always un-edited.",
"airtime": "THU 10pm, FRI 1am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Commonwealth-Club-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.commonwealthclub.org/podcasts",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "Commonwealth Club of California"
},
"link": "/radio/program/commonwealth-club",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/commonwealth-club-of-california-podcast/id976334034?mt=2",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5jb21tb253ZWFsdGhjbHViLm9yZy9hdWRpby9wb2RjYXN0L3dlZWtseS54bWw",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/Commonwealth-Club-of-California-p1060/"
}
},
"forum": {
"id": "forum",
"title": "Forum",
"tagline": "The conversation starts here",
"info": "KQED’s live call-in program discussing local, state, national and international issues, as well as in-depth interviews.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 9am-11am, 10pm-11pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Forum-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED Forum with Mina Kim and Alexis Madrigal",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/forum",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 10
},
"link": "/forum",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/kqeds-forum/id73329719",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM5NTU3MzgxNjMz",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/432307980/forum",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqedfm-kqeds-forum-podcast",
"rss": "https://feeds.megaphone.fm/KQINC9557381633"
}
},
"freakonomics-radio": {
"id": "freakonomics-radio",
"title": "Freakonomics Radio",
"info": "Freakonomics Radio is a one-hour award-winning podcast and public-radio project hosted by Stephen Dubner, with co-author Steve Levitt as a regular guest. It is produced in partnership with WNYC.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/05/freakonomicsRadio.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://freakonomics.com/",
"airtime": "SUN 1am-2am, SAT 3pm-4pm",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "WNYC"
},
"link": "/radio/program/freakonomics-radio",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/4s8b",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/freakonomics-radio/id354668519",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/WNYC-Podcasts/Freakonomics-Radio-p272293/",
"rss": "https://feeds.feedburner.com/freakonomicsradio"
}
},
"fresh-air": {
"id": "fresh-air",
"title": "Fresh Air",
"info": "Hosted by Terry Gross, \u003cem>Fresh Air from WHYY\u003c/em> is the Peabody Award-winning weekday magazine of contemporary arts and issues. One of public radio's most popular programs, Fresh Air features intimate conversations with today's biggest luminaries.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 7pm-8pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Fresh-Air-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/fresh-air",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/4s8b",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=214089682&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/Fresh-Air-p17/",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/381444908/podcast.xml"
}
},
"here-and-now": {
"id": "here-and-now",
"title": "Here & Now",
"info": "A live production of NPR and WBUR Boston, in collaboration with stations across the country, Here & Now reflects the fluid world of news as it's happening in the middle of the day, with timely, in-depth news, interviews and conversation. Hosted by Robin Young, Jeremy Hobson and Tonya Mosley.",
"airtime": "MON-THU 11am-12pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Here-And-Now-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/here-and-now",
"subsdcribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?mt=2&id=426698661",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/Here--Now-p211/",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510051/podcast.xml"
}
},
"how-i-built-this": {
"id": "how-i-built-this",
"title": "How I Built This with Guy Raz",
"info": "Guy Raz dives into the stories behind some of the world's best known companies. How I Built This weaves a narrative journey about innovators, entrepreneurs and idealists—and the movements they built.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/05/howIBuiltThis.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510313/how-i-built-this",
"airtime": "SUN 7:30pm-8pm",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/how-i-built-this",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/3zxy",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-built-this-with-guy-raz/id1150510297?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/Arts--Culture-Podcasts/How-I-Built-This-p910896/",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510313/podcast.xml"
}
},
"inside-europe": {
"id": "inside-europe",
"title": "Inside Europe",
"info": "Inside Europe, a one-hour weekly news magazine hosted by Helen Seeney and Keith Walker, explores the topical issues shaping the continent. No other part of the globe has experienced such dynamic political and social change in recent years.",
"airtime": "SAT 3am-4am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Inside-Europe-Podcast-Tile-300x300-1.jpg",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "Deutsche Welle"
},
"link": "/radio/program/inside-europe",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/inside-europe/id80106806?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/Inside-Europe-p731/",
"rss": "https://partner.dw.com/xml/podcast_inside-europe"
}
},
"latino-usa": {
"id": "latino-usa",
"title": "Latino USA",
"airtime": "MON 1am-2am, SUN 6pm-7pm",
"info": "Latino USA, the radio journal of news and culture, is the only national, English-language radio program produced from a Latino perspective.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/latinoUsa.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://latinousa.org/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/latino-usa",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/xtTd",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=79681317&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/Latino-USA-p621/",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510016/podcast.xml"
}
},
"live-from-here-highlights": {
"id": "live-from-here-highlights",
"title": "Live from Here Highlights",
"info": "Chris Thile steps to the mic as the host of Live from Here (formerly A Prairie Home Companion), a live public radio variety show. Download Chris’s Song of the Week plus other highlights from the broadcast. Produced by American Public Media.",
"airtime": "SAT 6pm-8pm, SUN 11am-1pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Live-From-Here-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.livefromhere.org/",
"meta": {
"site": "arts",
"source": "american public media"
},
"link": "/radio/program/live-from-here-highlights",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1167173941",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/Live-from-Here-Highlights-p921744/",
"rss": "https://feeds.publicradio.org/public_feeds/a-prairie-home-companion-highlights/rss/rss"
}
},
"marketplace": {
"id": "marketplace",
"title": "Marketplace",
"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 4pm-4:30pm, MON-WED 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Marketplace-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.marketplace.org/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "American Public Media"
},
"link": "/radio/program/marketplace",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=201853034&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/APM-Marketplace-p88/",
"rss": "https://feeds.publicradio.org/public_feeds/marketplace-pm/rss/rss"
}
},
"mindshift": {
"id": "mindshift",
"title": "MindShift",
"tagline": "A podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids",
"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED MindShift: How We Will Learn",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/mindshift/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 13
},
"link": "/podcasts/mindshift",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mindshift-podcast/id1078765985",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/464615685/mind-shift-podcast",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/stories-teachers-share",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/0MxSpNYZKNprFLCl7eEtyx"
}
},
"morning-edition": {
"id": "morning-edition",
"title": "Morning Edition",
"info": "\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. Hosts Steve Inskeep, David Greene and Rachel Martin bring you the latest breaking news and features to prepare you for the day.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 3am-9am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Morning-Edition-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/programs/morning-edition/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/morning-edition"
},
"onourwatch": {
"id": "onourwatch",
"title": "On Our Watch",
"tagline": "Deeply-reported investigative journalism",
"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/On-Our-Watch-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "On Our Watch from NPR and KQED",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/onourwatch",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 12
},
"link": "/podcasts/onourwatch",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1567098962",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5ucHIub3JnLzUxMDM2MC9wb2RjYXN0LnhtbD9zYz1nb29nbGVwb2RjYXN0cw",
"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/onourwatch",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/0OLWoyizopu6tY1XiuX70x",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/On-Our-Watch-p1436229/",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/show/on-our-watch",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510360/podcast.xml"
}
},
"on-the-media": {
"id": "on-the-media",
"title": "On The Media",
"info": "Our weekly podcast explores how the media 'sausage' is made, casts an incisive eye on fluctuations in the marketplace of ideas, and examines threats to the freedom of information and expression in America and abroad. For one hour a week, the show tries to lift the veil from the process of \"making media,\" especially news media, because it's through that lens that we see the world and the world sees us",
"airtime": "SUN 2pm-3pm, MON 12am-1am",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/onTheMedia.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/otm",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "wnyc"
},
"link": "/radio/program/on-the-media",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/on-the-media/id73330715?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/On-the-Media-p69/",
"rss": "http://feeds.wnyc.org/onthemedia"
}
},
"our-body-politic": {
"id": "our-body-politic",
"title": "Our Body Politic",
"info": "Presented by KQED, KCRW and KPCC, and created and hosted by award-winning journalist Farai Chideya, Our Body Politic is unapologetically centered on reporting on not just how women of color experience the major political events of today, but how they’re impacting those very issues.",
"airtime": "SAT 6pm-7pm, SUN 1am-2am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Our-Body-Politic-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://our-body-politic.simplecast.com/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kcrw"
},
"link": "/radio/program/our-body-politic",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/our-body-politic/id1533069868",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9feGFQaHMxcw",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/4ApAiLT1kV153TttWAmqmc",
"rss": "https://feeds.simplecast.com/_xaPhs1s",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/News--Politics-Podcasts/Our-Body-Politic-p1369211/"
}
},
"pbs-newshour": {
"id": "pbs-newshour",
"title": "PBS NewsHour",
"info": "Analysis, background reports and updates from the PBS NewsHour putting today's news in context.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 3pm-4pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/PBS-News-Hour-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.pbs.org/newshour/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "pbs"
},
"link": "/radio/program/pbs-newshour",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/pbs-newshour-full-show/id394432287?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/PBS-NewsHour---Full-Show-p425698/",
"rss": "https://www.pbs.org/newshour/feeds/rss/podcasts/show"
}
},
"perspectives": {
"id": "perspectives",
"title": "Perspectives",
"tagline": "KQED's series of daily listener commentaries since 1991",
"info": "KQED's series of daily listener commentaries since 1991.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Perspectives_Tile_Final.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/perspectives/",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 15
},
"link": "/perspectives",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id73801135",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/432309616/perspectives",
"rss": "https://ww2.kqed.org/perspectives/category/perspectives/feed/",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93dzIua3FlZC5vcmcvcGVyc3BlY3RpdmVzL2NhdGVnb3J5L3BlcnNwZWN0aXZlcy9mZWVkLw"
}
},
"planet-money": {
"id": "planet-money",
"title": "Planet Money",
"info": "The economy explained. Imagine you could call up a friend and say, Meet me at the bar and tell me what's going on with the economy. Now imagine that's actually a fun evening.",
"airtime": "SUN 3pm-4pm",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/planetmoney.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/sections/money/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/planet-money",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/M4f5",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/planet-money/id290783428?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/Business--Economics-Podcasts/Planet-Money-p164680/",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510289/podcast.xml"
}
},
"politicalbreakdown": {
"id": "politicalbreakdown",
"title": "Political Breakdown",
"tagline": "Politics from a personal perspective",
"info": "Political Breakdown is a new series that explores the political intersection of California and the nation. Each week hosts Scott Shafer and Marisa Lagos are joined with a new special guest to unpack politics -- with personality — and offer an insider’s glimpse at how politics happens.",
"airtime": "THU 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Political-Breakdown-2024-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED Political Breakdown",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/politicalbreakdown",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 6
},
"link": "/podcasts/politicalbreakdown",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/political-breakdown/id1327641087",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM5Nzk2MzI2MTEx",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/572155894/political-breakdown",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/political-breakdown",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/07RVyIjIdk2WDuVehvBMoN",
"rss": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/tag/political-breakdown/feed/podcast"
}
},
"pri-the-world": {
"id": "pri-the-world",
"title": "PRI's The World: Latest Edition",
"info": "Each weekday, host Marco Werman and his team of producers bring you the world's most interesting stories in an hour of radio that reminds us just how small our planet really is.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 2pm-3pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-World-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.pri.org/programs/the-world",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "PRI"
},
"link": "/radio/program/pri-the-world",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/pris-the-world-latest-edition/id278196007?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/News--Politics-Podcasts/PRIs-The-World-p24/",
"rss": "http://feeds.feedburner.com/pri/theworld"
}
},
"radiolab": {
"id": "radiolab",
"title": "Radiolab",
"info": "A two-time Peabody Award-winner, Radiolab is an investigation told through sounds and stories, and centered around one big idea. In the Radiolab world, information sounds like music and science and culture collide. Hosted by Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich, the show is designed for listeners who demand skepticism, but appreciate wonder. WNYC Studios is the producer of other leading podcasts including Freakonomics Radio, Death, Sex & Money, On the Media and many more.",
"airtime": "SUN 12am-1am, SAT 2pm-3pm",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/radiolab1400.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/radiolab/",
"meta": {
"site": "science",
"source": "WNYC"
},
"link": "/radio/program/radiolab",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/radiolab/id152249110?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/RadioLab-p68032/",
"rss": "https://feeds.wnyc.org/radiolab"
}
},
"reveal": {
"id": "reveal",
"title": "Reveal",
"info": "Created by The Center for Investigative Reporting and PRX, Reveal is public radios first one-hour weekly radio show and podcast dedicated to investigative reporting. Credible, fact based and without a partisan agenda, Reveal combines the power and artistry of driveway moment storytelling with data-rich reporting on critically important issues. The result is stories that inform and inspire, arming our listeners with information to right injustices, hold the powerful accountable and improve lives.Reveal is hosted by Al Letson and showcases the award-winning work of CIR and newsrooms large and small across the nation. In a radio and podcast market crowded with choices, Reveal focuses on important and often surprising stories that illuminate the world for our listeners.",
"airtime": "SAT 4pm-5pm",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/reveal300px.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.revealnews.org/episodes/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/reveal",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/reveal/id886009669",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/Reveal-p679597/",
"rss": "http://feeds.revealradio.org/revealpodcast"
}
},
"says-you": {
"id": "says-you",
"title": "Says You!",
"info": "Public radio's game show of bluff and bluster, words and whimsy. The warmest, wittiest cocktail party - it's spirited and civil, brainy and boisterous, peppered with musical interludes. Fast paced and playful, it's the most fun you can have with language without getting your mouth washed out with soap. Our motto: It's not important to know the answers, it's important to like the answers!",
"airtime": "SUN 4pm-5pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Says-You-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://www.saysyouradio.com/",
"meta": {
"site": "comedy",
"source": "Pipit and Finch"
},
"link": "/radio/program/says-you",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/says-you!/id1050199826",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/Says-You-p480/",
"rss": "https://saysyou.libsyn.com/rss"
}
},
"science-friday": {
"id": "science-friday",
"title": "Science Friday",
"info": "Science Friday is a weekly science talk show, broadcast live over public radio stations nationwide. Each week, the show focuses on science topics that are in the news and tries to bring an educated, balanced discussion to bear on the scientific issues at hand. Panels of expert guests join host Ira Flatow, a veteran science journalist, to discuss science and to take questions from listeners during the call-in portion of the program.",
"airtime": "FRI 11am-1pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Science-Friday-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/science-friday",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/science-friday",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=73329284&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/Science-Friday-p394/",
"rss": "http://feeds.wnyc.org/science-friday"
}
},
"selected-shorts": {
"id": "selected-shorts",
"title": "Selected Shorts",
"info": "Spellbinding short stories by established and emerging writers take on a new life when they are performed by stars of the stage and screen.",
"airtime": "SAT 8pm-9pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Selected-Shorts-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.pri.org/programs/selected-shorts",
"meta": {
"site": "arts",
"source": "pri"
},
"link": "/radio/program/selected-shorts",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=253191824&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/Selected-Shorts-p31792/",
"rss": "https://feeds.megaphone.fm/selectedshorts"
}
},
"snap-judgment": {
"id": "snap-judgment",
"title": "Snap Judgment",
"tagline": "Real stories with killer beats",
"info": "The Snap Judgment radio show and podcast mixes real stories with killer beats to produce cinematic, dramatic radio. Snap's musical brand of storytelling dares listeners to see the world through the eyes of another. This is storytelling... with a BEAT!! Snap first aired on public radio stations nationwide in July 2010. Today, Snap Judgment airs on over 450 public radio stations and is brought to the airwaves by KQED & PRX.",
"airtime": "SAT 1pm-2pm, 9pm-10pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Snap-Judgment-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://snapjudgment.org",
"meta": {
"site": "arts",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 5
},
"link": "https://snapjudgment.org",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/snap-judgment/id283657561",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/449018144/snap-judgment",
"stitcher": "https://www.pandora.com/podcast/snap-judgment/PC:241?source=stitcher-sunset",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/3Cct7ZWmxHNAtLgBTqjC5v",
"rss": "https://snap.feed.snapjudgment.org/"
}
},
"soldout": {
"id": "soldout",
"title": "SOLD OUT: Rethinking Housing in America",
"tagline": "A new future for housing",
"info": "Sold Out: Rethinking Housing in America",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Sold-Out-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED Sold Out: Rethinking Housing in America",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/soldout",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 14
},
"link": "/podcasts/soldout",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/911586047/s-o-l-d-o-u-t-a-new-future-for-housing",
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/introducing-sold-out-rethinking-housing-in-america/id1531354937",
"rss": "https://feeds.megaphone.fm/soldout",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/38dTBSk2ISFoPiyYNoKn1X",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/sold-out-rethinking-housing-in-america",
"tunein": "https://tunein.com/radio/SOLD-OUT-Rethinking-Housing-in-America-p1365871/",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vc29sZG91dA"
}
},
"spooked": {
"id": "spooked",
"title": "Spooked",
"tagline": "True-life supernatural stories",
"info": "",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Spooked-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://spookedpodcast.org/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 8
},
"link": "https://spookedpodcast.org/",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/spooked/id1279361017",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/549547848/snap-judgment-presents-spooked",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/76571Rfl3m7PLJQZKQIGCT",
"rss": "https://feeds.simplecast.com/TBotaapn"
}
},
"ted-radio-hour": {
"id": "ted-radio-hour",
"title": "TED Radio Hour",
"info": "The TED Radio Hour is a journey through fascinating ideas, astonishing inventions, fresh approaches to old problems, and new ways to think and create.",
"airtime": "SUN 3pm-4pm, SAT 10pm-11pm",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/tedRadioHour.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/programs/ted-radio-hour/?showDate=2018-06-22",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/ted-radio-hour",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/8vsS",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=523121474&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/TED-Radio-Hour-p418021/",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510298/podcast.xml"
}
},
"tech-nation": {
"id": "tech-nation",
"title": "Tech Nation Radio Podcast",
"info": "Tech Nation is a weekly public radio program, hosted by Dr. Moira Gunn. Founded in 1993, it has grown from a simple interview show to a multi-faceted production, featuring conversations with noted technology and science leaders, and a weekly science and technology-related commentary.",
"airtime": "FRI 10pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Tech-Nation-Radio-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://technation.podomatic.com/",
"meta": {
"site": "science",
"source": "Tech Nation Media"
},
"link": "/radio/program/tech-nation",
"subscribe": {
"rss": "https://technation.podomatic.com/rss2.xml"
}
},
"thebay": {
"id": "thebay",
"title": "The Bay",
"tagline": "Local news to keep you rooted",
"info": "Host Devin Katayama walks you through the biggest story of the day with reporters and newsmakers.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-Bay-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED The Bay",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/thebay",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 3
},
"link": "/podcasts/thebay",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-bay/id1350043452",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM4MjU5Nzg2MzI3",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/586725995/the-bay",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/the-bay",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/4BIKBKIujizLHlIlBNaAqQ",
"rss": "https://feeds.megaphone.fm/KQINC8259786327"
}
},
"californiareport": {
"id": "californiareport",
"title": "The California Report",
"tagline": "California, day by day",
"info": "KQED’s statewide radio news program providing daily coverage of issues, trends and public policy decisions.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-California-Report-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED The California Report",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/californiareport",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 9
},
"link": "/californiareport",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/kqeds-the-california-report/id79681292",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1MDAyODE4NTgz",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/432285393/the-california-report",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqedfm-kqeds-the-california-report-podcast-8838",
"rss": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/tag/tcram/feed/podcast"
}
},
"californiareportmagazine": {
"id": "californiareportmagazine",
"title": "The California Report Magazine",
"tagline": "Your state, your stories",
"info": "Every week, The California Report Magazine takes you on a road trip for the ears: to visit the places and meet the people who make California unique. The in-depth storytelling podcast from the California Report.",
"airtime": "FRI 4:30pm-5pm, 6:30pm-7pm, 11pm-11:30pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-California-Report-Magazine-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED The California Report Magazine",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/californiareportmagazine",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 11
},
"link": "/californiareportmagazine",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-california-report-magazine/id1314750545",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM3NjkwNjk1OTAz",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/564733126/the-california-report-magazine",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/the-california-report-magazine",
"rss": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/tag/tcrmag/feed/podcast"
}
},
"closealltabs": {
"id": "closealltabs",
"title": "Close All Tabs",
"tagline": "Your irreverent guide to the trends redefining our world",
"info": "Close All Tabs breaks down how digital culture shapes our world through thoughtful insights and irreverent humor.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/CAT_2_Tile-scaled.jpg",
"imageAlt": "\"KQED Close All Tabs",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/closealltabs",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 2
},
"link": "/podcasts/closealltabs",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/close-all-tabs/id214663465",
"rss": "https://feeds.megaphone.fm/KQINC6993880386",
"amazon": "https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/92d9d4ac-67a3-4eed-b10a-fb45d45b1ef2/close-all-tabs",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/6LAJFHnGK1pYXYzv6SIol6?si=deb0cae19813417c"
}
},
"thelatest": {
"id": "thelatest",
"title": "The Latest",
"tagline": "Trusted local news in real time",
"info": "",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/The-Latest-2025-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED The Latest",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/thelatest",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 7
},
"link": "/thelatest",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-latest-from-kqed/id1197721799",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/1257949365/the-latest-from-k-q-e-d",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/5KIIXMgM9GTi5AepwOYvIZ?si=bd3053fec7244dba",
"rss": "https://feeds.megaphone.fm/KQINC9137121918"
}
},
"theleap": {
"id": "theleap",
"title": "The Leap",
"tagline": "What if you closed your eyes, and jumped?",
"info": "Stories about people making dramatic, risky changes, told by award-winning public radio reporter Judy Campbell.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-Leap-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED The Leap",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/theleap",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 17
},
"link": "/podcasts/theleap",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leap/id1046668171",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM0NTcwODQ2MjY2",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/447248267/the-leap",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/the-leap",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/3sSlVHHzU0ytLwuGs1SD1U",
"rss": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/programs/the-leap/feed/podcast"
}
},
"masters-of-scale": {
"id": "masters-of-scale",
"title": "Masters of Scale",
"info": "Masters of Scale is an original podcast in which LinkedIn co-founder and Greylock Partner Reid Hoffman sets out to describe and prove theories that explain how great entrepreneurs take their companies from zero to a gazillion in ingenious fashion.",
"airtime": "Every other Wednesday June 12 through October 16 at 8pm (repeats Thursdays at 2am)",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Masters-of-Scale-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://mastersofscale.com/",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "WaitWhat"
},
"link": "/radio/program/masters-of-scale",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "http://mastersofscale.app.link/",
"rss": "https://rss.art19.com/masters-of-scale"
}
},
"the-moth-radio-hour": {
"id": "the-moth-radio-hour",
"title": "The Moth Radio Hour",
"info": "Since its launch in 1997, The Moth has presented thousands of true stories, told live and without notes, to standing-room-only crowds worldwide. Moth storytellers stand alone, under a spotlight, with only a microphone and a roomful of strangers. The storyteller and the audience embark on a high-wire act of shared experience which is both terrifying and exhilarating. Since 2008, The Moth podcast has featured many of our favorite stories told live on Moth stages around the country. For information on all of our programs and live events, visit themoth.org.",
"airtime": "SAT 8pm-9pm and SUN 11am-12pm",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/theMoth.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://themoth.org/",
"meta": {
"site": "arts",
"source": "prx"
},
"link": "/radio/program/the-moth-radio-hour",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-moth-podcast/id275699983?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/The-Moth-p273888/",
"rss": "http://feeds.themoth.org/themothpodcast"
}
},
"the-new-yorker-radio-hour": {
"id": "the-new-yorker-radio-hour",
"title": "The New Yorker Radio Hour",
"info": "The New Yorker Radio Hour is a weekly program presented by the magazine's editor, David Remnick, and produced by WNYC Studios and The New Yorker. Each episode features a diverse mix of interviews, profiles, storytelling, and an occasional burst of humor inspired by the magazine, and shaped by its writers, artists, and editors. This isn't a radio version of a magazine, but something all its own, reflecting the rich possibilities of audio storytelling and conversation. Theme music for the show was composed and performed by Merrill Garbus of tUnE-YArDs.",
"airtime": "SAT 10am-11am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-New-Yorker-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/tnyradiohour",
"meta": {
"site": "arts",
"source": "WNYC"
},
"link": "/radio/program/the-new-yorker-radio-hour",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1050430296",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/WNYC-Podcasts/New-Yorker-Radio-Hour-p803804/",
"rss": "https://feeds.feedburner.com/newyorkerradiohour"
}
},
"the-takeaway": {
"id": "the-takeaway",
"title": "The Takeaway",
"info": "The Takeaway is produced in partnership with its national audience. It delivers perspective and analysis to help us better understand the day’s news. Be a part of the American conversation on-air and online.",
"airtime": "MON-THU 12pm-1pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-Takeaway-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/takeaway",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "WNYC"
},
"link": "/radio/program/the-takeaway",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-takeaway/id363143310?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "http://tunein.com/radio/The-Takeaway-p150731/",
"rss": "https://feeds.feedburner.com/takeawaypodcast"
}
},
"this-american-life": {
"id": "this-american-life",
"title": "This American Life",
"info": "This American Life is a weekly public radio show, heard by 2.2 million people on more than 500 stations. Another 2.5 million people download the weekly podcast. It is hosted by Ira Glass, produced in collaboration with Chicago Public Media, delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange, and has won all of the major broadcasting awards.",
"airtime": "SAT 12pm-1pm, 7pm-8pm",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/thisAmericanLife.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.thisamericanlife.org/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "wbez"
},
"link": "/radio/program/this-american-life",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=201671138&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
"rss": "https://www.thisamericanlife.org/podcast/rss.xml"
}
},
"truthbetold": {
"id": "truthbetold",
"title": "Truth Be Told",
"tagline": "Advice by and for people of color",
"info": "We’re the friend you call after a long day, the one who gets it. Through wisdom from some of the greatest thinkers of our time, host Tonya Mosley explores what it means to grow and thrive as a Black person in America, while discovering new ways of being that serve as a portal to more love, more healing, and more joy.",
"airtime": "",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Truth-Be-Told-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED Truth Be Told with Tonya Mosley",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.kqed.ord/podcasts/truthbetold",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/podcasts/truthbetold",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/truth-be-told/id1462216572",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93dzIua3FlZC5vcmcvbmV3cy9jYXRlZ29yeS90cnV0aC1iZS10b2xkLXBvZGNhc3QvZmVlZA",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/719210818/truth-be-told",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/s?fid=398170&refid=stpr",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/587DhwTBxke6uvfwDfaV5N"
}
},
"wait-wait-dont-tell-me": {
"id": "wait-wait-dont-tell-me",
"title": "Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me!",
"info": "Peter Sagal and Bill Kurtis host the weekly NPR News quiz show alongside some of the best and brightest news and entertainment personalities.",
"airtime": "SUN 10am-11am, SAT 11am-12pm, SAT 6pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Wait-Wait-Podcast-Tile-300x300-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/programs/wait-wait-dont-tell-me/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/wait-wait-dont-tell-me",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/Xogv",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=121493804&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/Wait-Wait-Dont-Tell-Me-p46/",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/344098539/podcast.xml"
}
},
"washington-week": {
"id": "washington-week",
"title": "Washington Week",
"info": "For 50 years, Washington Week has been the most intelligent and up to date conversation about the most important news stories of the week. Washington Week is the longest-running news and public affairs program on PBS and features journalists -- not pundits -- lending insight and perspective to the week's important news stories.",
"airtime": "SAT 1:30am-2am",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/washington-week.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "pbs"
},
"link": "/radio/program/washington-week",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/washington-week-audio-pbs/id83324702?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/Current-Affairs/Washington-Week-p693/",
"rss": "http://feeds.pbs.org/pbs/weta/washingtonweek-audio"
}
},
"weekend-edition-saturday": {
"id": "weekend-edition-saturday",
"title": "Weekend Edition Saturday",
"info": "Weekend Edition Saturday wraps up the week's news and offers a mix of analysis and features on a wide range of topics, including arts, sports, entertainment, and human interest stories. The two-hour program is hosted by NPR's Peabody Award-winning Scott Simon.",
"airtime": "SAT 5am-10am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Weekend-Edition-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/programs/weekend-edition-saturday/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/weekend-edition-saturday"
},
"weekend-edition-sunday": {
"id": "weekend-edition-sunday",
"title": "Weekend Edition Sunday",
"info": "Weekend Edition Sunday features interviews with newsmakers, artists, scientists, politicians, musicians, writers, theologians and historians. The program has covered news events from Nelson Mandela's 1990 release from a South African prison to the capture of Saddam Hussein.",
"airtime": "SUN 5am-10am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Weekend-Edition-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/programs/weekend-edition-sunday/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/weekend-edition-sunday"
},
"world-affairs": {
"id": "world-affairs",
"title": "World Affairs",
"info": "The world as we knew it is undergoing a rapid transformation…so what's next? Welcome to WorldAffairs, your guide to a changing world. We give you the context you need to navigate across borders and ideologies. Through sound-rich stories and in-depth interviews, we break down what it means to be a global citizen on a hot, crowded planet. Our hosts, Ray Suarez, Teresa Cotsirilos and Philip Yun help you make sense of an uncertain world, one story at a time.",
"airtime": "MON 10pm, TUE 1am, SAT 3am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/World-Affairs-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.worldaffairs.org/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "World Affairs"
},
"link": "/radio/program/world-affairs",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/world-affairs/id101215657?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/WorldAffairs-p1665/",
"rss": "https://worldaffairs.libsyn.com/rss"
}
},
"on-shifting-ground": {
"id": "on-shifting-ground",
"title": "On Shifting Ground with Ray Suarez",
"info": "Geopolitical turmoil. A warming planet. Authoritarians on the rise. We live in a chaotic world that’s rapidly shifting around us. “On Shifting Ground with Ray Suarez” explores international fault lines and how they impact us all. Each week, NPR veteran Ray Suarez hosts conversations with journalists, leaders and policy experts to help us read between the headlines – and give us hope for human resilience.",
"airtime": "MON 10pm, TUE 1am, SAT 3am",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/2022/12/onshiftingground-600x600-1.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://worldaffairs.org/radio-podcast/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "On Shifting Ground"
},
"link": "/radio/program/on-shifting-ground",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/on-shifting-ground/id101215657",
"rss": "https://feeds.libsyn.com/36668/rss"
}
},
"hidden-brain": {
"id": "hidden-brain",
"title": "Hidden Brain",
"info": "Shankar Vedantam uses science and storytelling to reveal the unconscious patterns that drive human behavior, shape our choices and direct our relationships.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/05/hiddenbrain.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/series/423302056/hidden-brain",
"airtime": "SUN 7pm-8pm",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "NPR"
},
"link": "/radio/program/hidden-brain",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hidden-brain/id1028908750?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/Science-Podcasts/Hidden-Brain-p787503/",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510308/podcast.xml"
}
},
"hyphenacion": {
"id": "hyphenacion",
"title": "Hyphenación",
"tagline": "Where conversation and cultura meet",
"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/Hyphenacion_FinalAssets_PodcastTile.png",
"imageAlt": "KQED Hyphenación",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/hyphenacion",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 1
},
"link": "/podcasts/hyphenacion",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/hyphenaci%C3%B3n/id1191591838",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/2p3Fifq96nw9BPcmFdIq0o?si=39209f7b25774f38",
"youtube": "https://www.youtube.com/c/kqedarts",
"amazon": "https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/6c3dd23c-93fb-4aab-97ba-1725fa6315f1/hyphenaci%C3%B3n",
"rss": "https://feeds.megaphone.fm/KQINC2275451163"
}
},
"city-arts": {
"id": "city-arts",
"title": "City Arts & Lectures",
"info": "A one-hour radio program to hear celebrated writers, artists and thinkers address contemporary ideas and values, often discussing the creative process. Please note: tapes or transcripts are not available",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/05/cityartsandlecture-300x300.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.cityarts.net/",
"airtime": "SUN 1pm-2pm, TUE 10pm, WED 1am",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "City Arts & Lectures"
},
"link": "https://www.cityarts.net",
"subscribe": {
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/City-Arts-and-Lectures-p692/",
"rss": "https://www.cityarts.net/feed/"
}
},
"white-lies": {
"id": "white-lies",
"title": "White Lies",
"info": "In 1965, Rev. James Reeb was murdered in Selma, Alabama. Three men were tried and acquitted, but no one was ever held to account. Fifty years later, two journalists from Alabama return to the city where it happened, expose the lies that kept the murder from being solved and uncover a story about guilt and memory that says as much about America today as it does about the past.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/White-Lies-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510343/white-lies",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/white-lies",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/whitelies",
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1462650519?mt=2&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5ucHIub3JnLzUxMDM0My9wb2RjYXN0LnhtbA",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/12yZ2j8vxqhc0QZyRES3ft?si=LfWYEK6URA63hueKVxRLAw",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510343/podcast.xml"
}
},
"rightnowish": {
"id": "rightnowish",
"title": "Rightnowish",
"tagline": "Art is where you find it",
"info": "Rightnowish digs into life in the Bay Area right now… ish. Journalist Pendarvis Harshaw takes us to galleries painted on the sides of liquor stores in West Oakland. We'll dance in warehouses in the Bayview, make smoothies with kids in South Berkeley, and listen to classical music in a 1984 Cutlass Supreme in Richmond. Every week, Pen talks to movers and shakers about how the Bay Area shapes what they create, and how they shape the place we call home.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Rightnowish-Podcast-Tile-500x500-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED Rightnowish with Pendarvis Harshaw",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/rightnowish",
"meta": {
"site": "arts",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 16
},
"link": "/podcasts/rightnowish",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/721590300/rightnowish",
"rss": "https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/programs/rightnowish/feed/podcast",
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rightnowish/id1482187648",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/rightnowish",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkMxMjU5MTY3NDc4",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/7kEJuafTzTVan7B78ttz1I"
}
},
"jerrybrown": {
"id": "jerrybrown",
"title": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown",
"tagline": "Lessons from a lifetime in politics",
"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game – and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-Political-Mind-of-Jerry-Brown-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED The Political Mind of Jerry Brown",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/jerrybrown",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 18
},
"link": "/podcasts/jerrybrown",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/790253322/the-political-mind-of-jerry-brown",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1492194549",
"rss": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/series/jerrybrown/feed/podcast/",
"tuneIn": "http://tun.in/pjGcK",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/the-political-mind-of-jerry-brown",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/54C1dmuyFyKMFttY6X2j6r?si=K8SgRCoISNK6ZbjpXrX5-w",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93dzIua3FlZC5vcmcvbmV3cy9zZXJpZXMvamVycnlicm93bi9mZWVkL3BvZGNhc3Qv"
}
},
"tinydeskradio": {
"id": "tinydeskradio",
"title": "Tiny Desk Radio",
"info": "We're bringing the best of Tiny Desk to the airwaves, only on public radio.",
"airtime": "SUN 8pm and SAT 9pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/300x300-For-Member-Station-Logo-Tiny-Desk-Radio-@2x.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/series/g-s1-52030/tiny-desk-radio",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/tinydeskradio",
"subscribe": {
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/g-s1-52030/rss.xml"
}
},
"the-splendid-table": {
"id": "the-splendid-table",
"title": "The Splendid Table",
"info": "\u003cem>The Splendid Table\u003c/em> hosts our nation's conversations about cooking, sustainability and food culture.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-Splendid-Table-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.splendidtable.org/",
"airtime": "SUN 10-11 pm",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/the-splendid-table"
}
},
"racesReducer": {},
"racesGenElectionReducer": {},
"radioSchedulesReducer": {},
"listsReducer": {
"posts?category=mindshiftpodcast&queryId=b3d9b8b61d": {
"isFetching": false,
"latestQuery": {
"from": 0,
"postsToRender": 3
},
"tag": null,
"vitalsOnly": true,
"totalRequested": 3,
"isLoading": false,
"isLoadingMore": true,
"total": {
"value": 88,
"relation": "eq"
},
"items": [
"mindshift_65961",
"mindshift_65767",
"mindshift_65725"
]
}
},
"recallGuideReducer": {
"intros": {},
"policy": {},
"candidates": {}
},
"savedArticleReducer": {
"articles": [],
"status": {}
},
"pfsSessionReducer": {},
"subscriptionsReducer": {},
"termsReducer": {
"about": {
"name": "About",
"type": "terms",
"id": "about",
"slug": "about",
"link": "/about",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"arts": {
"name": "Arts & Culture",
"grouping": [
"arts",
"pop",
"trulyca"
],
"description": "KQED Arts provides daily in-depth coverage of the Bay Area's music, art, film, performing arts, literature and arts news, as well as cultural commentary and criticism.",
"type": "terms",
"id": "arts",
"slug": "arts",
"link": "/arts",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"artschool": {
"name": "Art School",
"parent": "arts",
"type": "terms",
"id": "artschool",
"slug": "artschool",
"link": "/artschool",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"bayareabites": {
"name": "KQED food",
"grouping": [
"food",
"bayareabites",
"checkplease"
],
"parent": "food",
"type": "terms",
"id": "bayareabites",
"slug": "bayareabites",
"link": "/food",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"bayareahiphop": {
"name": "Bay Area Hiphop",
"type": "terms",
"id": "bayareahiphop",
"slug": "bayareahiphop",
"link": "/bayareahiphop",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"campaign21": {
"name": "Campaign 21",
"type": "terms",
"id": "campaign21",
"slug": "campaign21",
"link": "/campaign21",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"checkplease": {
"name": "KQED food",
"grouping": [
"food",
"bayareabites",
"checkplease"
],
"parent": "food",
"type": "terms",
"id": "checkplease",
"slug": "checkplease",
"link": "/food",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"education": {
"name": "Education",
"grouping": [
"education"
],
"type": "terms",
"id": "education",
"slug": "education",
"link": "/education",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"elections": {
"name": "Elections",
"type": "terms",
"id": "elections",
"slug": "elections",
"link": "/elections",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"events": {
"name": "Events",
"type": "terms",
"id": "events",
"slug": "events",
"link": "/events",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"event": {
"name": "Event",
"alias": "events",
"type": "terms",
"id": "event",
"slug": "event",
"link": "/event",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"filmschoolshorts": {
"name": "Film School Shorts",
"type": "terms",
"id": "filmschoolshorts",
"slug": "filmschoolshorts",
"link": "/filmschoolshorts",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"food": {
"name": "KQED food",
"grouping": [
"food",
"bayareabites",
"checkplease"
],
"type": "terms",
"id": "food",
"slug": "food",
"link": "/food",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"forum": {
"name": "Forum",
"relatedContentQuery": "posts/forum?",
"parent": "news",
"type": "terms",
"id": "forum",
"slug": "forum",
"link": "/forum",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"futureofyou": {
"name": "Future of You",
"grouping": [
"science",
"futureofyou"
],
"parent": "science",
"type": "terms",
"id": "futureofyou",
"slug": "futureofyou",
"link": "/futureofyou",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"jpepinheart": {
"name": "KQED food",
"relatedContentQuery": "posts/food,bayareabites,checkplease",
"parent": "food",
"type": "terms",
"id": "jpepinheart",
"slug": "jpepinheart",
"link": "/food",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"liveblog": {
"name": "Live Blog",
"type": "terms",
"id": "liveblog",
"slug": "liveblog",
"link": "/liveblog",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"livetv": {
"name": "Live TV",
"parent": "tv",
"type": "terms",
"id": "livetv",
"slug": "livetv",
"link": "/livetv",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"lowdown": {
"name": "The Lowdown",
"relatedContentQuery": "posts/lowdown?",
"parent": "news",
"type": "terms",
"id": "lowdown",
"slug": "lowdown",
"link": "/lowdown",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"mindshift": {
"name": "Mindshift",
"parent": "news",
"description": "MindShift explores the future of education by highlighting the innovative – and sometimes counterintuitive – ways educators and parents are helping all children succeed.",
"type": "terms",
"id": "mindshift",
"slug": "mindshift",
"link": "/mindshift",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"news": {
"name": "News",
"grouping": [
"news",
"forum"
],
"type": "terms",
"id": "news",
"slug": "news",
"link": "/news",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"perspectives": {
"name": "Perspectives",
"parent": "radio",
"type": "terms",
"id": "perspectives",
"slug": "perspectives",
"link": "/perspectives",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"podcasts": {
"name": "Podcasts",
"type": "terms",
"id": "podcasts",
"slug": "podcasts",
"link": "/podcasts",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"pop": {
"name": "Pop",
"parent": "arts",
"type": "terms",
"id": "pop",
"slug": "pop",
"link": "/pop",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"pressroom": {
"name": "Pressroom",
"type": "terms",
"id": "pressroom",
"slug": "pressroom",
"link": "/pressroom",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"quest": {
"name": "Quest",
"parent": "science",
"type": "terms",
"id": "quest",
"slug": "quest",
"link": "/quest",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"radio": {
"name": "Radio",
"grouping": [
"forum",
"perspectives"
],
"description": "Listen to KQED Public Radio – home of Forum and The California Report – on 88.5 FM in San Francisco, 89.3 FM in Sacramento, 88.3 FM in Santa Rosa and 88.1 FM in Martinez.",
"type": "terms",
"id": "radio",
"slug": "radio",
"link": "/radio",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"root": {
"name": "KQED",
"image": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png",
"imageWidth": 1200,
"imageHeight": 630,
"headData": {
"title": "KQED | News, Radio, Podcasts, TV | Public Media for Northern California",
"description": "KQED provides public radio, television, and independent reporting on issues that matter to the Bay Area. We’re the NPR and PBS member station for Northern California."
},
"type": "terms",
"id": "root",
"slug": "root",
"link": "/root",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"science": {
"name": "Science",
"grouping": [
"science",
"futureofyou"
],
"description": "KQED Science brings you award-winning science and environment coverage from the Bay Area and beyond.",
"type": "terms",
"id": "science",
"slug": "science",
"link": "/science",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"stateofhealth": {
"name": "State of Health",
"parent": "science",
"type": "terms",
"id": "stateofhealth",
"slug": "stateofhealth",
"link": "/stateofhealth",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"support": {
"name": "Support",
"type": "terms",
"id": "support",
"slug": "support",
"link": "/support",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"thedolist": {
"name": "The Do List",
"parent": "arts",
"type": "terms",
"id": "thedolist",
"slug": "thedolist",
"link": "/thedolist",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"trulyca": {
"name": "Truly CA",
"grouping": [
"arts",
"pop",
"trulyca"
],
"parent": "arts",
"type": "terms",
"id": "trulyca",
"slug": "trulyca",
"link": "/trulyca",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"tv": {
"name": "TV",
"type": "terms",
"id": "tv",
"slug": "tv",
"link": "/tv",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"voterguide": {
"name": "Voter Guide",
"parent": "elections",
"alias": "elections",
"type": "terms",
"id": "voterguide",
"slug": "voterguide",
"link": "/voterguide",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"guiaelectoral": {
"name": "Guia Electoral",
"parent": "elections",
"alias": "elections",
"type": "terms",
"id": "guiaelectoral",
"slug": "guiaelectoral",
"link": "/guiaelectoral",
"taxonomy": "site"
},
"mindshift_21847": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "mindshift_21847",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "21847",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "MindShift",
"description": null,
"taxonomy": "program",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": null,
"title": "MindShift Archives - KQED Mindshift",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 21119,
"slug": "mindshift",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/mindshift/program/mindshift"
},
"mindshift_21504": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "mindshift_21504",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "21504",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "Education research",
"description": null,
"taxonomy": "category",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": null,
"title": "Education research Archives | KQED Mindshift",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 20776,
"slug": "education-research",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/mindshift/category/education-research"
},
"mindshift_21130": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "mindshift_21130",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "21130",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": "https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/23/2017/08/Mindshift_KQEDorg_1440x1103_02-1.jpg",
"name": "MindShift Podcast",
"description": "It’s easy to see a child’s education as a path determined by grades, test scores and extra curricular activities. But genuine learning is about so much more than the points schools tally. MindShift explores the future of education by investigating innovations and issues that are shaping how kids learn.\r\nEmotional safety, trust, and relationships: this season, we investigate the intangible, and often overlooked, elements of academic success. You’ll hear how teacher home visits can help parents see themselves as a valued a partner in their child’s education; how far a public high school goes to develop an inclusive experience for the crucial transition to ninth grade; how parents and schools can address childhood trauma so it doesn’t become an obstacle to learning, and what parents and communities can do to help kids grow.\r\nThis podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us @MindShiftKQED or visit us at MindShift.KQED.org.",
"taxonomy": "category",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": "It’s easy to see a child’s education as a path determined by grades, test scores and extra curricular activities. But genuine learning is about so much more than the points schools tally. MindShift explores the future of education by investigating innovations and issues that are shaping how kids learn. Emotional safety, trust, and relationships: this season, we investigate the intangible, and often overlooked, elements of academic success. You’ll hear how teacher home visits can help parents see themselves as a valued a partner in their child’s education; how far a public high school goes to develop an inclusive experience for the crucial transition to ninth grade; how parents and schools can address childhood trauma so it doesn’t become an obstacle to learning, and what parents and communities can do to help kids grow. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us @MindShiftKQED or visit us at MindShift.KQED.org.",
"title": "MindShift Podcast Archives | KQED Mindshift",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 20402,
"slug": "mindshiftpodcast",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/mindshift/category/mindshiftpodcast"
},
"mindshift_21998": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "mindshift_21998",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "21998",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"name": "awe",
"slug": "awe",
"taxonomy": "tag",
"description": null,
"featImg": null,
"headData": {
"title": "awe - KQED Mindshift",
"description": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogDescription": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"twDescription": null,
"twImgId": null
},
"ttid": 21270,
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/mindshift/tag/awe"
},
"mindshift_945": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "mindshift_945",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "945",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "grit",
"description": null,
"taxonomy": "tag",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": null,
"title": "grit Archives | KQED Mindshift",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 950,
"slug": "grit",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/mindshift/tag/grit"
},
"mindshift_21132": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "mindshift_21132",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "21132",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "MindShift Podcast",
"description": null,
"taxonomy": "tag",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": null,
"title": "MindShift Podcast Archives | KQED Mindshift",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 20404,
"slug": "mindshift-podcast",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/mindshift/tag/mindshift-podcast"
},
"mindshift_21038": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "mindshift_21038",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "21038",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "resilience",
"description": null,
"taxonomy": "tag",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": null,
"title": "resilience Archives | KQED Mindshift",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 20310,
"slug": "resilience",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/mindshift/tag/resilience"
},
"mindshift_20616": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "mindshift_20616",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "20616",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "student engagement",
"description": null,
"taxonomy": "tag",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": null,
"title": "student engagement Archives | KQED Mindshift",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 19893,
"slug": "student-engagement",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/mindshift/tag/student-engagement"
},
"mindshift_21892": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "mindshift_21892",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "21892",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "Education",
"description": null,
"taxonomy": "interest",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": null,
"title": "Education Archives - MindShift",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 21164,
"slug": "education",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/mindshift/interest/education"
},
"mindshift_21942": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "mindshift_21942",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "21942",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"name": "Mindshift Podcast",
"slug": "mindshiftpodcast",
"taxonomy": "program",
"description": null,
"featImg": null,
"headData": {
"title": "Mindshift Podcast - KQED Mindshift",
"description": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogDescription": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"twDescription": null,
"twImgId": null
},
"ttid": 21214,
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/mindshift/program/mindshiftpodcast"
},
"mindshift_193": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "mindshift_193",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "193",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "Teaching Strategies",
"description": "Innovative ideas - projects, processes, curricula, and more - that are transforming how we teach and learn.",
"taxonomy": "category",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": "Innovative ideas - projects, processes, curricula, and more - that are transforming how we teach and learn.",
"title": "Teaching Strategies Archives | KQED Mindshift",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 193,
"slug": "teaching-strategies",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/mindshift/category/teaching-strategies"
},
"mindshift_20533": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "mindshift_20533",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "20533",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "civics",
"description": null,
"taxonomy": "tag",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": null,
"title": "civics Archives | KQED Mindshift",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 19810,
"slug": "civics",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/mindshift/tag/civics"
},
"mindshift_20558": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "mindshift_20558",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "20558",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "conversation",
"description": null,
"taxonomy": "tag",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": null,
"title": "conversation Archives | KQED Mindshift",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 19835,
"slug": "conversation",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/mindshift/tag/conversation"
},
"mindshift_20779": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "mindshift_20779",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "20779",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "student voice",
"description": null,
"taxonomy": "tag",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": null,
"title": "student voice Archives - KQED Mindshift",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 20056,
"slug": "student-voice",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/mindshift/tag/student-voice"
},
"mindshift_21512": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "mindshift_21512",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "21512",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "Belonging",
"description": null,
"taxonomy": "category",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": null,
"title": "Belonging Archives | KQED Mindshift",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 20784,
"slug": "belonging",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/mindshift/category/belonging"
},
"mindshift_20699": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "mindshift_20699",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "20699",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "empathy",
"description": null,
"taxonomy": "tag",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": null,
"title": "empathy Archives | KQED Mindshift",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 19976,
"slug": "empathy",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/mindshift/tag/empathy"
},
"mindshift_21336": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "mindshift_21336",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "21336",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "friendships",
"description": null,
"taxonomy": "tag",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": null,
"title": "friendships Archives - KQED Mindshift",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 20608,
"slug": "friendships",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/mindshift/tag/friendships"
},
"mindshift_20568": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "mindshift_20568",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "20568",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "parenting",
"description": null,
"taxonomy": "tag",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": null,
"title": "parenting Archives - KQED Mindshift",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 19845,
"slug": "parenting",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/mindshift/tag/parenting"
},
"mindshift_381": {
"type": "terms",
"id": "mindshift_381",
"meta": {
"index": "terms_1716263798",
"site": "mindshift",
"id": "381",
"found": true
},
"relationships": {},
"featImg": null,
"name": "research",
"description": null,
"taxonomy": "tag",
"headData": {
"twImgId": null,
"twTitle": null,
"ogTitle": null,
"ogImgId": null,
"twDescription": null,
"description": null,
"title": "research Archives | KQED Mindshift",
"ogDescription": null
},
"ttid": 382,
"slug": "research-2",
"isLoading": false,
"link": "/mindshift/tag/research-2"
}
},
"userAgentReducer": {
"userAgent": "Mozilla/5.0 AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko; compatible; ClaudeBot/1.0; +claudebot@anthropic.com)",
"isBot": true
},
"userPermissionsReducer": {
"wpLoggedIn": false
},
"localStorageReducer": {},
"browserHistoryReducer": [],
"eventsReducer": {},
"fssReducer": {},
"tvDailyScheduleReducer": {},
"tvWeeklyScheduleReducer": {},
"tvPrimetimeScheduleReducer": {},
"tvMonthlyScheduleReducer": {},
"userAccountReducer": {
"user": {
"email": null,
"emailStatus": "EMAIL_UNVALIDATED",
"loggedStatus": "LOGGED_OUT",
"loggingChecked": false,
"articles": [],
"firstName": null,
"lastName": null,
"phoneNumber": null,
"fetchingMembership": false,
"membershipError": false,
"memberships": [
{
"id": null,
"startDate": null,
"firstName": null,
"lastName": null,
"familyNumber": null,
"memberNumber": null,
"memberSince": null,
"expirationDate": null,
"pfsEligible": false,
"isSustaining": false,
"membershipLevel": "Prospect",
"membershipStatus": "Non Member",
"lastGiftDate": null,
"renewalDate": null
}
]
},
"authModal": {
"isOpen": false,
"view": "LANDING_VIEW"
},
"error": null
},
"youthMediaReducer": {},
"checkPleaseReducer": {
"filterData": {},
"restaurantData": []
},
"location": {
"pathname": "/podcasts/mindshift",
"previousPathname": "/"
}
}
