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He lives in a rural California county, where many of his neighbors and hunting buddies don’t have much exposure to the transgender community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We’ll also meet a 14-year-old nonbinary kid whose grandmother lives in India, where she’s become a fierce advocate for transgender and nonbinary youth. She’s taken on the challenge of explaining her grandchild’s gender to her relatives, some of whom are 90 or older.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC3553005698\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Love You for You Episode 2: A Grandparent’s Love\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>I’m Sasha Khokha, and this is The California Report Magazine. We’re continuing our series this week about transgender and gender-expansive kids across California and the people in their lives who love, support and mentor them so they can thrive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12063357\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/3.png\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12063357\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/3.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1080\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/3.png 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/3-160x90.png 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/3-1536x864.png 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/3-1200x675.png 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An illustration of a 10-year-old transgender girl in a photo booth with her older sister and their grandfather. Many families in this series have chosen to remain anonymous and not use their names or show their faces out of fear that they could face harm in this current climate. \u003ccite>(Anna Vignet/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Montage of voices\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Being trans, of course, it’s a big deal, but I wish it didn’t feel like such a big deal. I wish I just felt like, you now, another fun thing about me instead of my whole identity? \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>What do you want people who are targeting trans kids right now to know about your grandkid? \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Just about how special she is. That you gotta know the person. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Thanks for letting me be who I am. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>And thank you for letting me be your parent and for letting me love you. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>What are you hopeful for the future will look like for trans kids?\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>All the trans people I know have one vision, and it is just a society where being trans isn’t this whole like thing, right? Where I can just say, ‘Hey, I’m trans,’ and everyone’s like, ‘OK, cool.’\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades out\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>We’re calling the series \u003cem>Love You for You\u003c/em>, and this week we’re going to hear two conversations between kids and their grandparents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>I’m 16. I’m a sophomore in high school. Uh, my pronouns are she, her, and this is my sister.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Hi, I’m 10. In two days, I’m about to be 11. Um, my pronouns are she, her, and this is my Grandpa.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa:\u003c/strong> Um. I’m old, I’m their Grandparent, and I’m very proud of being their Grandparent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>This family — an older sister, a younger sister who is trans, and their grandfather — sat down to talk together to talk about their relationship. And just a note, this family, like many in this series, has chosen to stay anonymous and not use their names out of fear that they could face harm in this current climate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades out\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister:\u003c/strong> When you first came out, what was that experience like for you?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>I think I was like nine or eight, and it was like during the summertime, like it was right, it was kind of like in the beginning of the summer. I kind of just realized, like, yeah, that’s who I am. I’m trans, like I’m not a boy. I’m a girl. And I remember I texted my mom, “Hey, you know how I’m a boy, I think I’m actually a girl.” And she called me and she was like, “What do you mean?” And I was just like, “I’m a girl.” It was like, kind of scary because I didn’t know what anyone would think. It was kinda like awkward because like when my grandma, like I go to my grandma’s house every Friday and she used to hug me and say “Oh my little boy,” and I would look to my mom like in like disgust and like it was like kinda like weird and it was still like when I was like figuring out who I was and stuff.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Papa, how did it feel when my sister came out to you?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>We always knew, so it was not a big surprise. When you were just three years old, we were putting on your dress. I think it was your…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Which one?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>When you’re going through, I think, the Dorothy years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Oh, \u003cem>Wizard of Oz\u003c/em> phase?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>I was helping you with your dress, and we were having a hard time. And I said, it’d be a lot easier if you just dressed up like a boy, and you just turned to me at the age of three and said, “I wish I was a girl.” And from then on, we knew. I knew. There’s no doubt about it. And that was it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah. Like, I feel like a lot of people don’t understand how little of a change it really was.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>It was not a…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister\u003c/strong>: Yeah, and like I’m sure it was a bigger change for you, obviously.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister\u003c/strong>: Yes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister\u003c/strong>: But like for us, it was like nothing, it was like nothing had changed. Same old you. You know? I was proud of you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister:\u003c/strong> Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister:\u003c/strong> You’re welcome. So do you feel that you’ve never really identified with, like, male?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>No, I feel like I never did that, I always wore wigs, I’ve always loved doing makeup and stuff. I remember one day where I was like, I’m just going to do like a classic glam. Two minutes later, I had polka dots on my face looking like I was Minnie Mouse’s dress because I thought it was so funny and that I looked amazing and yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister:\u003c/strong> Uh, do you wish you would have transitioned sooner?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Yes, everyone kind of like already knew, like I said, I loved costumes, I love dressing up, but not like when I was like a baby. Not when I, yep. But I feel maybe like, I feel like a good age I wanted to was probably like seven.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah. What’s something that you do that makes you feel most like yourself?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger Sister: \u003c/strong>I love expressing myself in different ways that aren’t talking. Like I love dance, I do ballet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades in\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger Sister:\u003c/strong> And I think it’s such a fun way to express myself because you can like jump up in the air and like you can show your expressions, like when you’re doing ballet, you can like spin and doing a jump, that you’re sad or you’re happy. Like I love expressing myself in dance and in music and stuff like that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah, you are definitely one of the most creative people I know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades out\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older Sister: \u003c/strong>How does it feel when somebody uses your old name?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Um on like on purpose, like to be mean, I feel like like it annoys me, but also like I don’t get it because if you are trying to do this on purpose, it just fades through to, it’s like you should just stop. It’s not funny, it’s not cute, it’s just annoying, and if you do this, I’m calling you out right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>You just don’t let it affect you?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I don’t.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>Are there any other trans kids at your school?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Uh. I don’t think so, I don’t know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>What would you say if a new kid came to school and was trans? What would you say to make the school easier?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Um, stay away from certain people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa:\u003c/strong> OK.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Would you like give them any advice on how to stand up to bullies, or, like …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Oh yeah, don’t let it fade to you. They are just doing that because they are insecure about yourself. They just want to tear you down, even though you’re a confident, amazing person and they’re not. So just walk away and say, “I’m better than you,” and sing your way out. That’s what I do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>OK.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Yes, like this has been going on for a long time. You guys are so unoriginal. Be like, stop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>It must be exhausting being so strong all the time, and like standing up and not letting it bother you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Um, not really.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>It’s just your norm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades in\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Do you guys think that, like, younger kids are better at learning new pronouns and new names than older people are? Because the older people have been calling you by your old name for so long.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>I think the older people have a hard time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I would agree.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>Isn’t that right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah, also because, like I said, our whole family is very supportive, so once they found out, I feel like I heard that some of them bought their kids gender books. I’m very glad that there’s authors and stuff and people that, oh, let’s write about this stuff, so the younger kids and younger generations can know about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah, just like teaching younger kids, just educating them more about everything that goes into it. I definitely think that younger kids have an easier time with like switching names and pronouns.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>Does it hurt your feelings when Papa accidentally calls you by your old name?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>No, because I’m not that surprised at it, like yeah. Well, not in like a mean way. I’m just like, like I’ve been used to like everyone calling me it like for so long on accident, that I’m just like, yeah, OK, like, it’s fine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>It’s to be expected.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah, like there’s like it’s kind of like they’re forgetting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades in\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Papa, have you like told any of your friends or people around you, like people that don’t include our close family, about my sister being trans?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>Yes, yes, all my close friends. They all know. I have not told my neighbors. But my friends that I go hunting with and fishing with, they were all Trump supporters, but I told them, and they’ve never said, I don’t know really how they feel about it, but they’ve said anything bad about it, or you know, saying that’s a terrible thing or…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister:\u003c/strong> Yeah. Do you think that like people around you would have a reaction?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>Some, yes, I do, yes. A lot of them would not understand at all. So they’re, what you don’t know they’re afraid of, kind of.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah. For people that you don’t think would be supportive or people that would have a negative reaction, what would you want to tell them to try and change their mind or redirect their thinking?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>It’s hard to tell someone to change their mind without knowing somebody or, you know, I just can’t say she’s a beautiful person; she does, she has a great heart. Um, I don’t think that’d change their mind. I think over time, if they actually met somebody and were closer to them, that’s how I think that they’d lose their opinion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah, you think that they would need to have personal experience with someone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>Personal experience, exactly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>What do you want people who are targeting trans kids right now to know about your grandkid?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>Just about how special she is. That you gotta know the person.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah, that’s a good answer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister:\u003c/strong> Yeah!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Like, I don’t, it just doesn’t make sense, people who just are homophobic for no good reason. Like, for things that don’t affect them, people that they don’t know. Doesn’t make sense to me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah, like cyberbullying, like when people cyberbully people like you don’t know this person personally, but like, why do you want to be mean to them for no reason? Like you actually like the person, like if you’re taking time every day to, be rude like…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah. Like, if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say it at all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister:\u003c/strong> Yes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>What do you want the future to look like for trans kids?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Uh, I hope that in the future everyone’s really supportive of them and that homophobia kind of disappears. It’s probably not, but like…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>That would be wonderful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Honestly, like, there’s nothing we can really do about people having their own opinions, but like, I feel like sometimes we can just keep our opinions to ourselves, you know, just like, shush.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades in\u003c/em>\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>What are you most excited about for your future?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister \u003c/strong>Well, there’s two things, one, becoming an actor, like, I really want to be a child actor if there’s any agents listening. Hello, I’m here! Hi. But another thing is I would love to, like this, I love how I get to like share knowledge to other people that might not know about being trans or stuff. So I love to…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older Sister:\u003c/strong> To educate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah, to educate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Good answer. Papa, what do you hope that the future is like for trans kids, and what do you plan on doing to support trans kids?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>Oh, I support this one all the time. Uh, I’d do anything for her, and she knows that. I just, I don’t want the hurt that people give to trans people for there’s no reason. That’s uh, that’s what really gets me and your grandma the most. We just hate to see you hurt.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades in\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>Well, I got a question for you. Have you ever talked so much to your sister before? Actually sat and chatted with your sister?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>I don’t think that a conversation like this has ever really come up. I regret not asking you more about being trans, but I’m glad that we have this opportunity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah, like we never really have time, like you have a bunch of school and homework, and I have like Monday I have singing, Tuesday I have ballet…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>You have lots of commitments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger Sister: \u003c/strong>Yes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>I think that this has been very, very helpful, educational for me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger Sister: \u003c/strong>Mm-hmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister \u003c/strong>And I think that having this conversation and just learning more about you and like who you are as a person will help me to better explain it to other people, you know, like to my friends and the rest of my family.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nYounger sister: \u003c/strong>And I hope for all the other trans kids and other trans people that this is very educational for them. Really, people that are not, like people that still trying to figure out who they are. I hope this helps people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>I’m excited to see what you do in the future. I know that you’ll achieve your dreams of being an actress.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>I can’t tell you how proud I am of you two doing this. This is amazing to me. I could never ever do this at your age, especially.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa:\u003c/strong> And you guys are doing a great job. Just very special, both of you guys are.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades in\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>In our next conversation, we’re gonna hear a kid talking with their mom and their grandmother.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades out\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ba: \u003c/strong>It’s important in these times, you know, with all the misconceptions that are there, that we make our voice be heard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>They discuss what it’s meant to have their family’s support across generations. And by the way, we’re just using this kid’s first name to protect their privacy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan \u003c/strong>Hi, my name is Rohan, I’m 14 years old, non-binary, and my pronouns are they, them. I’m here with my mom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ma\u003c/strong>: Hi.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan\u003c/strong>: And my grandma, who I call Ba.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ba\u003c/strong>: Hello.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan:\u003c/strong> She’s visiting from India.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>It’s not really our family culture to speak very publicly about you being trans, and in general, we’re very open about it, actually, in our community and our family. And so it’s not something secret at all, but we’re not used to talking about it publicly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades in\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>There’s not really a moment I can think of when I like found out I was trans or something, I’ve always felt like I didn’t fit into either of the main gender categories.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades out\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom:\u003c/strong> Yeah, and as your mom, I can say that. You’ve always been you. Even when you were one years old, two years old, three years old, you know, really very young.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ba: \u003c/strong>When they actually came out with it, I was very glad because I just never liked the fact of anyone having to hide something because I feel that it affects their personality, and all, whereas Rohan came out with it, we all were happy to share it with friends, you know, and that’s been good. And if I can go further, actually, for me, what has been very important is to see the child thrive. And I’ve seen Rohan thriving. I mean, I’ve seen them playing football, doing those miniature paintings, being good at school, and just more than anything else, being a very sensitive, loving child. And that for me has been most important.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>There were a few things in your childhood that were very distinctive, like you never wore conventional like the short swimsuit, you know, you always wanted to wear the top as well, otherwise you would refuse to, even when you were very small, two, three years old.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ba: \u003c/strong>You know, for me, there’s just that one memory where we were at the dining table and a friend was visiting and Rohan whispered to you to say that share, and I said it is such a good moment for me that you know not only was there a coming out but there was such a confidence about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>Oh my gosh, I had forgotten that moment. That was a really precious moment. You were such a little one. And when you were excited, I also remember when we were discussing with the counselor, you know, she was advising that you could come out. Actually, we didn’t know about non-binary and they/them pronouns. So when we were talking about your gender fluidity and she asked you what’s your coming out plan. You were a little kid, Rohan of seven, eight years old. And she asked, “Who would you like to come out to?” And you said, “Everybody.” And I remember that was really one of my favorite moments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>I feel like one of the things was it really like, somehow I feel like I was opened up to an even bigger community, like, and that was really special, I think, like of all the different, you know, like LGBTQ kids and…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>So yeah, that’s one of the unexpected boons, isn’t it, Rohan, finding that community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>Yeah, there’s so many nice moments like going to Pride and going to like groups where there’s like so many other like trans and non-binary or anyone who’s LGBTQ kids, and I just feel like I can connect with people so well there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades in\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>Yeah, do you want to talk about some of the challenges on the other side, the challenges of being trans in this world?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades out\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>For me, one of the biggest things is bathroom dysphoria, like especially being non-binary, I never know, I don’t want to go in either of the like male or female bathrooms and like especially in like big public spaces. Even if it’s like in a like area that’s very supportive, I feel really uncomfortable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom\u003c/strong>: If there’s a non-binary, if there’s an all-gender bathroom available, does that make it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>Yeah, definitely.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>That addresses it, huh? So that’s the solution.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>Any other challenges you’ve experienced or difficulties?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>So, also, another thing is immigration when we’re going to see my grandparents in India, sometimes it’s tough explaining to the immigration agent like what non-binary is and sometimes like the, they’re like trying to talk to me in Hindi or like, and that’s sometimes a language barrier and like what it says on the passport may not match how they perceive me. I feel like worried. If we get into the country or not is based on their decisions. So it’s always a very stressful time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>I think my mom and I have talked about this, that as parents, as grandparents, we just want to protect our child and protect their right to be a child and dealing with these types of things with how to use the bathroom and navigating immigration. These are things which I know I, as a child, never had to think about. The adults in the world took care of it and made it easy and safe for me. I think that’s the toughest as an adult to not be able to control that I can make a world that children can be carefree and safe in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ba:\u003c/strong> This is such an important part of caring for our own children and, by extension, our grandchildren, and what it would mean not just for our grandchildren but for communities at large to see. We all feel it, and we all are together in it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom:\u003c/strong> The safety of children is a community sport. It’s a team sport. Putting flags, rainbow flags and trans flags everywhere. Whenever I see a rainbow flag anywhere, I feel that it’s a signal that I am safe to be myself there. I know it makes difference to me as the parent of a trans child. I’ll be biking through the neighborhood, and in a way, it’s such a small cosmetic thing, putting a flag up outside your house, but it makes big difference.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I really feel like that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>Do you feel that too?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>Buy some flags.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades in\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ba: \u003c/strong>I think we are able to have conversations and just feel more open, more close to each other as family. And then I realized that it opened up another horizon for me. Like one day, I walked into an LGBTQ meeting in Bombay. I’d never done that before. And there were only two of us who were not in that category. Maybe we all are a bit in that category, but strikingly so. So it was a universe which I entered in because of you. And then one time, during a literary festival, I went to listen to transgender poetry. And I had not been aware of that whole scene in Bombay, and so my college, where I had studied, has an LGBTQ club. And I’ve got connected to that. And I’m looking forward to an opportunity to talk to grandparents through that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan:\u003c/strong> I mean, Ba, you saw this firsthand, but like, where the family in India, especially like the family that was like 90 or more years older, like still really tries and understands.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom\u003c/strong>: The way that she explained, the way you explained, mama and helped people understand how Rohan is, you know what it’s like because for many of them they had no exposure whatsoever to, maybe not even to LGBTQ, for some of our really elderly, forget trans. Just to have you know my 80 plus, 90 plus relative unanimously, not had one relative who when we go back home Rohan can’t be themselves with that even and so by extension I can’t be myself with. And that, even though it’s around this topic of being trans, I think in a way made me feel more safe about being myself, myself, in general. Because I realize that people are more capable than I might have guessed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>India has been such like a happy memory in general for me, like, and I’m always excited to go now because it’s like there’s so much support and love there in that family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ba: \u003c/strong>And I just want to give the context that the family that my husband comes from is really a Marwadi, conservative family, and my own family, maybe a little forward, but otherwise a bit right-wing, you get the picture. And yet, before Rohan came to India, last time especially, because now they had grown up, I wanted them all to know before they met them, you know, so that there would really be no quizzical looks or anything, there’d just be a joyful feeling of a grandchild visiting. We’ve got a large family, so I would tell one person from the family to inform everybody else. If one talks in a certain way, then awareness does increase and something does shift.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>Yeah, Ba, thanks for sharing that. Can you reflect on whether there was something about the way that you introduced people to the topic that got the reaction that you got?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ba: \u003c/strong>I realized that there’s no sense in being forceful or angry, you know. I just, it’s important to reach, not to confront anyone. People always love it when somebody wants to share something. I didn’t say, I want to tell you, or I want you to know. Get into a conversation in some form, like encourage them to ask if a question popped up in their mind. I remember that there was an 83-year-old woman who was like you know, I’ve never heard of this do you mind if I ask more questions? I said no, I want you to ask more questions, and if you can talk to others about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>You know, Ba, you’re a real leader, you are held in high respect in our family. And I think also you drew on that in the sense on the trust and respect people have for you. So you were sharing very much about how you feel. They could feel your comfort with it, your not just comfort, but joy about who Rohan is, your pride in Rohan, and then I think that people follow suit a little bit with someone they respect and trust.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ba: \u003c/strong>One thing was my own intrinsic love for Rohan. That’s the first, but also, I think my own experience as having grown up in India at a time when there was so much gender discrimination and bias against women. So I somehow know in my bones how it feels, you know, so that the combined effect of that, think, gave me a certain energy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades in and out\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>Rohan, you also have family in Wyoming from your dad’s side. And so how has that story played out?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I mean, I feel like it’s kind of like a bit of an unfinished story. Like we haven’t yet told them, but like in Wyoming, like that community, it is a bit of a conservative community. But I mean I’m still hopeful that maybe, you know, it could be the same situation as what happened in India. Like, we kind of expected the worst, but then it was so amazing to see all these like, people understanding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>Yeah. And so though it’s unfinished, do you feel sad about that? Or kind of a sense of anything negative, dread or uncertainty or?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan\u003c/strong>: Not really. I feel like I’m kind of hopeful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades in\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom:\u003c/strong> Rohan, have you ever imagined or thought about not being trans or wished you were cisgender?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>Um, I feel like sometimes, yeah, maybe I think about what it might have been like if I wasn’t trans, but it’s never like a, like it’s almost like thinking about what would it be like for a different person who’s not trans. It’s not like, what if I was not trans? I mean, it’s who I am, I’d be a different person if I wasn’t trans. Like it’s almost like saying like, oh, what if I had chosen to be a different height? Or what if I had chosen for my skin color to be different? Like, it’s kind of who you are, and I’m happy to be who I am.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ba: \u003c/strong>I very, very strongly feel that everyone has a right to be what they are. I think change happens. It happens slowly, but it does happen. So we keep our faith alive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom:\u003c/strong> Great. And now the most important question, which family member has supported you best? Who gets the award?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan\u003c/strong>: Everyone!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom:\u003c/strong> Rohan, I know that you were very hesitant to do this, so thanks for doing it. Thanks for taking a chance on it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>I mean, I feel like in the end, all the stress when we did this fully went away.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ba: \u003c/strong>I have to say that I felt teary in between. Just we’ve talked about these things, it’s not new, but talking like this, I think I feel very heartened.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades in\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>Yeah, that’s how I feel. My heart feels very full.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>I’m really happy we did this. You know, I feel like we’re giving a message out to people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>Next week in the \u003cem>Love You for You\u003c/em> series, we’ll hear a dad talking with his two gender-expansive teenagers. Both rugby players who’ve faced different kinds of challenges on the field.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kid: \u003c/strong>I am a person like you, and I am just here to play rugby and now I will tackle you, please stop being patronizing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>That’s next week on \u003cem>The California Report Magazine\u003c/em>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The interviews in our \u003cem>Love You for You\u003c/em> series were produced by me, Sasha Khokha, Tessa Paoli, Srishti Prabha and Suzie Racho with help this week from Gabriela Glueck. Our senior editor is Victoria Mauleon. Our engineer is Brendan Willard, with additional mixing from Katherine Monahan. Srishti Prabha is our intern. Special thanks to Tuck Woodstock, host of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.genderpodcast.com/\">Gender Reveal podcast\u003c/a>, for his help on the series. And to KQED’s Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Ana de Almeida Amaral and Anna Vignet. We’ll be releasing all of the stories in our \u003cem>Love You for You\u003c/em> series on our podcast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The California Report Magazine, Your State, Your stories.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades out\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "Episode 2 of KQED's new series, \"Love You for You,\" features trans and nonbinary youth from across California in conversation with their grandparents. ",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Our \u003cem>\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2025/11/03/introducing-love-you-for-you-conversations-between-trans-kids-and-their-loved-ones/\">Love You for You\u003c/a>\u003c/em> series features conversations between trans and nonbinary youth from across California and the people in their lives who love and mentor them: parents, grandparents, siblings and others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This week, we’ll hear how grandparents’ hearts can be moved by having a transgender grandchild, and how that can expand the worldview of someone who may not be connected to the LGBTQ+ community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We’ll hear from a 10-year-old transgender girl in conversation with her older sister and their grandfather. He lives in a rural California county, where many of his neighbors and hunting buddies don’t have much exposure to the transgender community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We’ll also meet a 14-year-old nonbinary kid whose grandmother lives in India, where she’s become a fierce advocate for transgender and nonbinary youth. She’s taken on the challenge of explaining her grandchild’s gender to her relatives, some of whom are 90 or older.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC3553005698\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Love You for You Episode 2: A Grandparent’s Love\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>I’m Sasha Khokha, and this is The California Report Magazine. We’re continuing our series this week about transgender and gender-expansive kids across California and the people in their lives who love, support and mentor them so they can thrive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12063357\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/3.png\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12063357\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/3.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1080\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/3.png 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/3-160x90.png 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/3-1536x864.png 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/3-1200x675.png 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An illustration of a 10-year-old transgender girl in a photo booth with her older sister and their grandfather. Many families in this series have chosen to remain anonymous and not use their names or show their faces out of fear that they could face harm in this current climate. \u003ccite>(Anna Vignet/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Montage of voices\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Being trans, of course, it’s a big deal, but I wish it didn’t feel like such a big deal. I wish I just felt like, you now, another fun thing about me instead of my whole identity? \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>What do you want people who are targeting trans kids right now to know about your grandkid? \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Just about how special she is. That you gotta know the person. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Thanks for letting me be who I am. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>And thank you for letting me be your parent and for letting me love you. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>What are you hopeful for the future will look like for trans kids?\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>All the trans people I know have one vision, and it is just a society where being trans isn’t this whole like thing, right? Where I can just say, ‘Hey, I’m trans,’ and everyone’s like, ‘OK, cool.’\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades out\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>We’re calling the series \u003cem>Love You for You\u003c/em>, and this week we’re going to hear two conversations between kids and their grandparents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>I’m 16. I’m a sophomore in high school. Uh, my pronouns are she, her, and this is my sister.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Hi, I’m 10. In two days, I’m about to be 11. Um, my pronouns are she, her, and this is my Grandpa.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa:\u003c/strong> Um. I’m old, I’m their Grandparent, and I’m very proud of being their Grandparent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>This family — an older sister, a younger sister who is trans, and their grandfather — sat down to talk together to talk about their relationship. And just a note, this family, like many in this series, has chosen to stay anonymous and not use their names out of fear that they could face harm in this current climate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades out\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister:\u003c/strong> When you first came out, what was that experience like for you?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>I think I was like nine or eight, and it was like during the summertime, like it was right, it was kind of like in the beginning of the summer. I kind of just realized, like, yeah, that’s who I am. I’m trans, like I’m not a boy. I’m a girl. And I remember I texted my mom, “Hey, you know how I’m a boy, I think I’m actually a girl.” And she called me and she was like, “What do you mean?” And I was just like, “I’m a girl.” It was like, kind of scary because I didn’t know what anyone would think. It was kinda like awkward because like when my grandma, like I go to my grandma’s house every Friday and she used to hug me and say “Oh my little boy,” and I would look to my mom like in like disgust and like it was like kinda like weird and it was still like when I was like figuring out who I was and stuff.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Papa, how did it feel when my sister came out to you?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>We always knew, so it was not a big surprise. When you were just three years old, we were putting on your dress. I think it was your…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Which one?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>When you’re going through, I think, the Dorothy years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Oh, \u003cem>Wizard of Oz\u003c/em> phase?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>I was helping you with your dress, and we were having a hard time. And I said, it’d be a lot easier if you just dressed up like a boy, and you just turned to me at the age of three and said, “I wish I was a girl.” And from then on, we knew. I knew. There’s no doubt about it. And that was it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah. Like, I feel like a lot of people don’t understand how little of a change it really was.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>It was not a…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister\u003c/strong>: Yeah, and like I’m sure it was a bigger change for you, obviously.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister\u003c/strong>: Yes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister\u003c/strong>: But like for us, it was like nothing, it was like nothing had changed. Same old you. You know? I was proud of you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister:\u003c/strong> Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister:\u003c/strong> You’re welcome. So do you feel that you’ve never really identified with, like, male?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>No, I feel like I never did that, I always wore wigs, I’ve always loved doing makeup and stuff. I remember one day where I was like, I’m just going to do like a classic glam. Two minutes later, I had polka dots on my face looking like I was Minnie Mouse’s dress because I thought it was so funny and that I looked amazing and yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister:\u003c/strong> Uh, do you wish you would have transitioned sooner?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Yes, everyone kind of like already knew, like I said, I loved costumes, I love dressing up, but not like when I was like a baby. Not when I, yep. But I feel maybe like, I feel like a good age I wanted to was probably like seven.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah. What’s something that you do that makes you feel most like yourself?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger Sister: \u003c/strong>I love expressing myself in different ways that aren’t talking. Like I love dance, I do ballet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades in\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger Sister:\u003c/strong> And I think it’s such a fun way to express myself because you can like jump up in the air and like you can show your expressions, like when you’re doing ballet, you can like spin and doing a jump, that you’re sad or you’re happy. Like I love expressing myself in dance and in music and stuff like that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah, you are definitely one of the most creative people I know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades out\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older Sister: \u003c/strong>How does it feel when somebody uses your old name?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Um on like on purpose, like to be mean, I feel like like it annoys me, but also like I don’t get it because if you are trying to do this on purpose, it just fades through to, it’s like you should just stop. It’s not funny, it’s not cute, it’s just annoying, and if you do this, I’m calling you out right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>You just don’t let it affect you?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I don’t.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>Are there any other trans kids at your school?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Uh. I don’t think so, I don’t know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>What would you say if a new kid came to school and was trans? What would you say to make the school easier?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Um, stay away from certain people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa:\u003c/strong> OK.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Would you like give them any advice on how to stand up to bullies, or, like …\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Oh yeah, don’t let it fade to you. They are just doing that because they are insecure about yourself. They just want to tear you down, even though you’re a confident, amazing person and they’re not. So just walk away and say, “I’m better than you,” and sing your way out. That’s what I do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>OK.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Yes, like this has been going on for a long time. You guys are so unoriginal. Be like, stop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>It must be exhausting being so strong all the time, and like standing up and not letting it bother you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Um, not really.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>It’s just your norm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades in\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Do you guys think that, like, younger kids are better at learning new pronouns and new names than older people are? Because the older people have been calling you by your old name for so long.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>I think the older people have a hard time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I would agree.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>Isn’t that right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah, also because, like I said, our whole family is very supportive, so once they found out, I feel like I heard that some of them bought their kids gender books. I’m very glad that there’s authors and stuff and people that, oh, let’s write about this stuff, so the younger kids and younger generations can know about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah, just like teaching younger kids, just educating them more about everything that goes into it. I definitely think that younger kids have an easier time with like switching names and pronouns.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>Does it hurt your feelings when Papa accidentally calls you by your old name?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>No, because I’m not that surprised at it, like yeah. Well, not in like a mean way. I’m just like, like I’ve been used to like everyone calling me it like for so long on accident, that I’m just like, yeah, OK, like, it’s fine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>It’s to be expected.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah, like there’s like it’s kind of like they’re forgetting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades in\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Papa, have you like told any of your friends or people around you, like people that don’t include our close family, about my sister being trans?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>Yes, yes, all my close friends. They all know. I have not told my neighbors. But my friends that I go hunting with and fishing with, they were all Trump supporters, but I told them, and they’ve never said, I don’t know really how they feel about it, but they’ve said anything bad about it, or you know, saying that’s a terrible thing or…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister:\u003c/strong> Yeah. Do you think that like people around you would have a reaction?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>Some, yes, I do, yes. A lot of them would not understand at all. So they’re, what you don’t know they’re afraid of, kind of.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah. For people that you don’t think would be supportive or people that would have a negative reaction, what would you want to tell them to try and change their mind or redirect their thinking?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>It’s hard to tell someone to change their mind without knowing somebody or, you know, I just can’t say she’s a beautiful person; she does, she has a great heart. Um, I don’t think that’d change their mind. I think over time, if they actually met somebody and were closer to them, that’s how I think that they’d lose their opinion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah, you think that they would need to have personal experience with someone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>Personal experience, exactly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>What do you want people who are targeting trans kids right now to know about your grandkid?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>Just about how special she is. That you gotta know the person.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah, that’s a good answer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister:\u003c/strong> Yeah!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Like, I don’t, it just doesn’t make sense, people who just are homophobic for no good reason. Like, for things that don’t affect them, people that they don’t know. Doesn’t make sense to me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah, like cyberbullying, like when people cyberbully people like you don’t know this person personally, but like, why do you want to be mean to them for no reason? Like you actually like the person, like if you’re taking time every day to, be rude like…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah. Like, if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say it at all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister:\u003c/strong> Yes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>What do you want the future to look like for trans kids?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Uh, I hope that in the future everyone’s really supportive of them and that homophobia kind of disappears. It’s probably not, but like…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>That would be wonderful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Honestly, like, there’s nothing we can really do about people having their own opinions, but like, I feel like sometimes we can just keep our opinions to ourselves, you know, just like, shush.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades in\u003c/em>\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>What are you most excited about for your future?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister \u003c/strong>Well, there’s two things, one, becoming an actor, like, I really want to be a child actor if there’s any agents listening. Hello, I’m here! Hi. But another thing is I would love to, like this, I love how I get to like share knowledge to other people that might not know about being trans or stuff. So I love to…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older Sister:\u003c/strong> To educate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah, to educate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Good answer. Papa, what do you hope that the future is like for trans kids, and what do you plan on doing to support trans kids?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>Oh, I support this one all the time. Uh, I’d do anything for her, and she knows that. I just, I don’t want the hurt that people give to trans people for there’s no reason. That’s uh, that’s what really gets me and your grandma the most. We just hate to see you hurt.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades in\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>Well, I got a question for you. Have you ever talked so much to your sister before? Actually sat and chatted with your sister?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>I don’t think that a conversation like this has ever really come up. I regret not asking you more about being trans, but I’m glad that we have this opportunity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger sister: \u003c/strong>Yeah, like we never really have time, like you have a bunch of school and homework, and I have like Monday I have singing, Tuesday I have ballet…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>You have lots of commitments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger Sister: \u003c/strong>Yes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>I think that this has been very, very helpful, educational for me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Younger Sister: \u003c/strong>Mm-hmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister \u003c/strong>And I think that having this conversation and just learning more about you and like who you are as a person will help me to better explain it to other people, you know, like to my friends and the rest of my family.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nYounger sister: \u003c/strong>And I hope for all the other trans kids and other trans people that this is very educational for them. Really, people that are not, like people that still trying to figure out who they are. I hope this helps people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>I’m excited to see what you do in the future. I know that you’ll achieve your dreams of being an actress.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa: \u003c/strong>I can’t tell you how proud I am of you two doing this. This is amazing to me. I could never ever do this at your age, especially.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Older sister: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Grandpa:\u003c/strong> And you guys are doing a great job. Just very special, both of you guys are.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades in\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>In our next conversation, we’re gonna hear a kid talking with their mom and their grandmother.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades out\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ba: \u003c/strong>It’s important in these times, you know, with all the misconceptions that are there, that we make our voice be heard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>They discuss what it’s meant to have their family’s support across generations. And by the way, we’re just using this kid’s first name to protect their privacy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan \u003c/strong>Hi, my name is Rohan, I’m 14 years old, non-binary, and my pronouns are they, them. I’m here with my mom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ma\u003c/strong>: Hi.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan\u003c/strong>: And my grandma, who I call Ba.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ba\u003c/strong>: Hello.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan:\u003c/strong> She’s visiting from India.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>It’s not really our family culture to speak very publicly about you being trans, and in general, we’re very open about it, actually, in our community and our family. And so it’s not something secret at all, but we’re not used to talking about it publicly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades in\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>There’s not really a moment I can think of when I like found out I was trans or something, I’ve always felt like I didn’t fit into either of the main gender categories.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades out\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom:\u003c/strong> Yeah, and as your mom, I can say that. You’ve always been you. Even when you were one years old, two years old, three years old, you know, really very young.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ba: \u003c/strong>When they actually came out with it, I was very glad because I just never liked the fact of anyone having to hide something because I feel that it affects their personality, and all, whereas Rohan came out with it, we all were happy to share it with friends, you know, and that’s been good. And if I can go further, actually, for me, what has been very important is to see the child thrive. And I’ve seen Rohan thriving. I mean, I’ve seen them playing football, doing those miniature paintings, being good at school, and just more than anything else, being a very sensitive, loving child. And that for me has been most important.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>There were a few things in your childhood that were very distinctive, like you never wore conventional like the short swimsuit, you know, you always wanted to wear the top as well, otherwise you would refuse to, even when you were very small, two, three years old.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ba: \u003c/strong>You know, for me, there’s just that one memory where we were at the dining table and a friend was visiting and Rohan whispered to you to say that share, and I said it is such a good moment for me that you know not only was there a coming out but there was such a confidence about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>Oh my gosh, I had forgotten that moment. That was a really precious moment. You were such a little one. And when you were excited, I also remember when we were discussing with the counselor, you know, she was advising that you could come out. Actually, we didn’t know about non-binary and they/them pronouns. So when we were talking about your gender fluidity and she asked you what’s your coming out plan. You were a little kid, Rohan of seven, eight years old. And she asked, “Who would you like to come out to?” And you said, “Everybody.” And I remember that was really one of my favorite moments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>I feel like one of the things was it really like, somehow I feel like I was opened up to an even bigger community, like, and that was really special, I think, like of all the different, you know, like LGBTQ kids and…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>So yeah, that’s one of the unexpected boons, isn’t it, Rohan, finding that community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>Yeah, there’s so many nice moments like going to Pride and going to like groups where there’s like so many other like trans and non-binary or anyone who’s LGBTQ kids, and I just feel like I can connect with people so well there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades in\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>Yeah, do you want to talk about some of the challenges on the other side, the challenges of being trans in this world?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades out\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>For me, one of the biggest things is bathroom dysphoria, like especially being non-binary, I never know, I don’t want to go in either of the like male or female bathrooms and like especially in like big public spaces. Even if it’s like in a like area that’s very supportive, I feel really uncomfortable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom\u003c/strong>: If there’s a non-binary, if there’s an all-gender bathroom available, does that make it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>Yeah, definitely.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>That addresses it, huh? So that’s the solution.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>Any other challenges you’ve experienced or difficulties?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>So, also, another thing is immigration when we’re going to see my grandparents in India, sometimes it’s tough explaining to the immigration agent like what non-binary is and sometimes like the, they’re like trying to talk to me in Hindi or like, and that’s sometimes a language barrier and like what it says on the passport may not match how they perceive me. I feel like worried. If we get into the country or not is based on their decisions. So it’s always a very stressful time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>I think my mom and I have talked about this, that as parents, as grandparents, we just want to protect our child and protect their right to be a child and dealing with these types of things with how to use the bathroom and navigating immigration. These are things which I know I, as a child, never had to think about. The adults in the world took care of it and made it easy and safe for me. I think that’s the toughest as an adult to not be able to control that I can make a world that children can be carefree and safe in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ba:\u003c/strong> This is such an important part of caring for our own children and, by extension, our grandchildren, and what it would mean not just for our grandchildren but for communities at large to see. We all feel it, and we all are together in it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom:\u003c/strong> The safety of children is a community sport. It’s a team sport. Putting flags, rainbow flags and trans flags everywhere. Whenever I see a rainbow flag anywhere, I feel that it’s a signal that I am safe to be myself there. I know it makes difference to me as the parent of a trans child. I’ll be biking through the neighborhood, and in a way, it’s such a small cosmetic thing, putting a flag up outside your house, but it makes big difference.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I really feel like that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>Do you feel that too?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>Buy some flags.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades in\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ba: \u003c/strong>I think we are able to have conversations and just feel more open, more close to each other as family. And then I realized that it opened up another horizon for me. Like one day, I walked into an LGBTQ meeting in Bombay. I’d never done that before. And there were only two of us who were not in that category. Maybe we all are a bit in that category, but strikingly so. So it was a universe which I entered in because of you. And then one time, during a literary festival, I went to listen to transgender poetry. And I had not been aware of that whole scene in Bombay, and so my college, where I had studied, has an LGBTQ club. And I’ve got connected to that. And I’m looking forward to an opportunity to talk to grandparents through that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan:\u003c/strong> I mean, Ba, you saw this firsthand, but like, where the family in India, especially like the family that was like 90 or more years older, like still really tries and understands.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom\u003c/strong>: The way that she explained, the way you explained, mama and helped people understand how Rohan is, you know what it’s like because for many of them they had no exposure whatsoever to, maybe not even to LGBTQ, for some of our really elderly, forget trans. Just to have you know my 80 plus, 90 plus relative unanimously, not had one relative who when we go back home Rohan can’t be themselves with that even and so by extension I can’t be myself with. And that, even though it’s around this topic of being trans, I think in a way made me feel more safe about being myself, myself, in general. Because I realize that people are more capable than I might have guessed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>India has been such like a happy memory in general for me, like, and I’m always excited to go now because it’s like there’s so much support and love there in that family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ba: \u003c/strong>And I just want to give the context that the family that my husband comes from is really a Marwadi, conservative family, and my own family, maybe a little forward, but otherwise a bit right-wing, you get the picture. And yet, before Rohan came to India, last time especially, because now they had grown up, I wanted them all to know before they met them, you know, so that there would really be no quizzical looks or anything, there’d just be a joyful feeling of a grandchild visiting. We’ve got a large family, so I would tell one person from the family to inform everybody else. If one talks in a certain way, then awareness does increase and something does shift.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>Yeah, Ba, thanks for sharing that. Can you reflect on whether there was something about the way that you introduced people to the topic that got the reaction that you got?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ba: \u003c/strong>I realized that there’s no sense in being forceful or angry, you know. I just, it’s important to reach, not to confront anyone. People always love it when somebody wants to share something. I didn’t say, I want to tell you, or I want you to know. Get into a conversation in some form, like encourage them to ask if a question popped up in their mind. I remember that there was an 83-year-old woman who was like you know, I’ve never heard of this do you mind if I ask more questions? I said no, I want you to ask more questions, and if you can talk to others about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>You know, Ba, you’re a real leader, you are held in high respect in our family. And I think also you drew on that in the sense on the trust and respect people have for you. So you were sharing very much about how you feel. They could feel your comfort with it, your not just comfort, but joy about who Rohan is, your pride in Rohan, and then I think that people follow suit a little bit with someone they respect and trust.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ba: \u003c/strong>One thing was my own intrinsic love for Rohan. That’s the first, but also, I think my own experience as having grown up in India at a time when there was so much gender discrimination and bias against women. So I somehow know in my bones how it feels, you know, so that the combined effect of that, think, gave me a certain energy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades in and out\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>Rohan, you also have family in Wyoming from your dad’s side. And so how has that story played out?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I mean, I feel like it’s kind of like a bit of an unfinished story. Like we haven’t yet told them, but like in Wyoming, like that community, it is a bit of a conservative community. But I mean I’m still hopeful that maybe, you know, it could be the same situation as what happened in India. Like, we kind of expected the worst, but then it was so amazing to see all these like, people understanding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>Yeah. And so though it’s unfinished, do you feel sad about that? Or kind of a sense of anything negative, dread or uncertainty or?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan\u003c/strong>: Not really. I feel like I’m kind of hopeful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades in\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom:\u003c/strong> Rohan, have you ever imagined or thought about not being trans or wished you were cisgender?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>Um, I feel like sometimes, yeah, maybe I think about what it might have been like if I wasn’t trans, but it’s never like a, like it’s almost like thinking about what would it be like for a different person who’s not trans. It’s not like, what if I was not trans? I mean, it’s who I am, I’d be a different person if I wasn’t trans. Like it’s almost like saying like, oh, what if I had chosen to be a different height? Or what if I had chosen for my skin color to be different? Like, it’s kind of who you are, and I’m happy to be who I am.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ba: \u003c/strong>I very, very strongly feel that everyone has a right to be what they are. I think change happens. It happens slowly, but it does happen. So we keep our faith alive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom:\u003c/strong> Great. And now the most important question, which family member has supported you best? Who gets the award?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan\u003c/strong>: Everyone!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom:\u003c/strong> Rohan, I know that you were very hesitant to do this, so thanks for doing it. Thanks for taking a chance on it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>I mean, I feel like in the end, all the stress when we did this fully went away.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ba: \u003c/strong>I have to say that I felt teary in between. Just we’ve talked about these things, it’s not new, but talking like this, I think I feel very heartened.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades in\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mom: \u003c/strong>Yeah, that’s how I feel. My heart feels very full.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rohan: \u003c/strong>I’m really happy we did this. You know, I feel like we’re giving a message out to people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>Next week in the \u003cem>Love You for You\u003c/em> series, we’ll hear a dad talking with his two gender-expansive teenagers. Both rugby players who’ve faced different kinds of challenges on the field.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Kid: \u003c/strong>I am a person like you, and I am just here to play rugby and now I will tackle you, please stop being patronizing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>That’s next week on \u003cem>The California Report Magazine\u003c/em>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The interviews in our \u003cem>Love You for You\u003c/em> series were produced by me, Sasha Khokha, Tessa Paoli, Srishti Prabha and Suzie Racho with help this week from Gabriela Glueck. Our senior editor is Victoria Mauleon. Our engineer is Brendan Willard, with additional mixing from Katherine Monahan. Srishti Prabha is our intern. Special thanks to Tuck Woodstock, host of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.genderpodcast.com/\">Gender Reveal podcast\u003c/a>, for his help on the series. And to KQED’s Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Ana de Almeida Amaral and Anna Vignet. We’ll be releasing all of the stories in our \u003cem>Love You for You\u003c/em> series on our podcast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The California Report Magazine, Your State, Your stories.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades out\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/transgender\">Transgender\u003c/a> and nonbinary kids have been in the headlines a lot lately, and recent \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/trump-administration\">Trump administration\u003c/a> policies have only intensified this focus. But we rarely hear these young people tell their own stories, about growing up with love and support from their families and communities, or about their complex, multifaceted identities that go beyond gender.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Our \u003cem>Love You for You\u003c/em> series takes a unique approach, featuring conversations between trans and nonbinary youth from across California and the people in their lives who love and mentor them: parents, grandparents, siblings and others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This series features six conversations, packaged into three episodes. (Note that most families participating in the series have decided not to use their names to protect their identities).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This week, we’ll hear kids exploring identity and coming out to family. In the first conversation, a nonbinary 8-year-old talks with their mom about navigating school life and connecting with their Vietnamese and Taiwanese relatives. Then, 16-year-old Hunter Stoval sits down with his mom’s best friend, Shirin Amini, who came out as a lesbian at his age.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC9033219123\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Guests:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>A mom and 8-year-old nonbinary kid (they/them)\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Hunter Stoval, a 16-year-old trans boy (he/him) and Shirin Amini (she/her)\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12062276\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/2.png\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12062276\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/2.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1080\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/2.png 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/2-160x90.png 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/2-1536x864.png 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/2-1600x900.png 1600w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An illustration of an 8-year-old and their mom (who wish to remain anonymous for safety) in a photo booth. As part of “Love You for You,” a new California Report Magazine series uplifting the voices of trans youth, the kid talks to their mom about navigating their gender identity at school and with their Vietnamese and Taiwanese relatives. \u003ccite>(Anna Vignet/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cstrong>Love You for You Episode 1: Coming Out to Love \u003c/strong>\u003c/strong>\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Sasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>Hey, it’s Sasha Khokha. And here on the California Report’s weekly magazine show, we get to do something really special: take deep dives into issues that shape who we are as Californians. Spend time to really get to know the people whose stories and voices we bring you. So you can understand the complexity of their experience. The nuances, not just the headlines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Well, over the next few weeks, we’re gonna do just that by introducing you to some transgender, nonbinary and other gender expansive youth and their families.[aside postID=news_12061591 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/250331-Trans-Newsom-Rally-AC-02-KQED-1020x680.jpg']Trans kids have been in the headlines a lot recently, especially since the Trump Administration has started targeting them through executive orders and policies.We’ve been hearing a lot of debates over whether they’re being harmed by the medical system or their schools.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But we’re not hearing much from those young people themselves about their lives. And most media coverage focuses on the hardships trans kids can face: suicide risk, depression, rejection from their families, lack of access to supportive care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>All of those factors are real. But I’ve got some amazing trans and nonbinary kids in my life, and it seems like we rarely hear stories about these young people are thriving with love and support from their families and communities. And how trans youth actually have complex, multifaceted identities that go beyond their gender. They’re scholars, siblings, artists, athletes and so much more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So over the next few weeks, we’ll introduce you to some gender-expansive youth from across California and the people in their lives who love, support, and mentor them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Montage of voices\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Being trans, of course it’s a big deal, but I wish it didn’t feel like such a big deal. I wish I just felt like, you now, another fun thing about me instead of my whole identity? \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>What do you want people who are targeting trans kids right now to know about your grandkid? \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Just about how special she is. That you gotta know the person. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Thanks for letting me be who I am. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>And thank you for letting me be your parent and for letting me love you. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>What are you hopeful for the future will look like for trans kids?\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>All the trans people I know have one vision and it is just a society where being trans isn’t this whole like thing, right?Where I can just say, ‘Hey, I’m trans,’ and everyone’s like, ‘OK, cool.’\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>We’re gonna take a page from the long-running storytelling project “Storycorps” and listen in as these young people have conversations with their parents, their grandparents, or their mentors, about how they can thrive with love. We’re calling the series “Love You for You.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This week, we’ll hear from two young people. An 8-year-old in conversation with their mom…and then, a 16-year-old talking to his “Aunty” – his mom’s best friend, who’s a lesbian. And just a note, many of the youth in this series have chosen to stay anonymous and not use their names out of fear that they and their families could face harm in this current climate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here’s our first conversation…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>[Mother and child speak in Vietnamese: I will ask some questions so the answer is in American. OK.]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> Can you tell me a little bit about yourself?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child\u003c/strong>: I like to play soccer and read, and my family is from Asia, like Vietnam and Taiwan, and my pronouns is they/them and I’m 8 years old.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What are you most proud of about me?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> What am I most proud of about you? Um, I think in terms of being non-binary that you knew when you were very young. You were only about four years old and you just kind of told me that you weren’t sure that you fit being either a boy or a girl and you felt maybe like you were neither or both.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so that was something for us to learn because we didn’t think kids that young knew that about themselves. And so we had to learn a lot about it and support you. And you’ve always just kind stuck with it, even though people ask a lot, like, ‘How do you know?’ Like you just know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music bridge \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> What does it feel like to be non-binary?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child: \u003c/strong>Um, Different\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> Different in what way?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child:\u003c/strong> Just kids sometimes tease me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother: \u003c/strong>Kids sometimes tease you?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child \u003c/strong>Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> What do they say?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child: \u003c/strong>They’re just like, like ‘Why are you in here? You’re not allowed to.’\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> Oh, when you go to the bathrooms?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child: \u003c/strong>Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> And it sounds like that made you feel bad. I remember it made you feel really sad when you were little.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child: \u003c/strong>I’m sad that, like, some people don’t like that I’m non-binary and they don’t want it to be allowed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> Oh, yeah, do you mean at school or just like in the world?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child:\u003c/strong> In the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> In the world. Yeah, it feels like you can’t be yourself?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child:\u003c/strong> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> Does it feel like there’s, like, new rules about it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child:\u003c/strong> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> Yeah? And that makes you sad?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child:\u003c/strong> Mm-hmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music sneaks in\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> And before it was hard, if people got your pronouns wrong, you wouldn’t say anything. And now you’ll correct people. And like at school, like sometimes you wear a bracelet that says what your pronouns are. You know, we found ways at school to find safe spaces for bathrooms, right? You’ll go to the principal’s office or in the library. Um, but sometimes if you want to use the restroom, you’re not letting other kids like bully you, um, out of the space anymore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child: \u003c/strong>If they say I can’t, I’m just like ‘Too bad. I’m gonna go anyway.’\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> Yeah.(laughs)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You have really good friends at school that use the buddy system and they’ll go with you, too, so it’s almost like you have an extra person there that’s an ally. And then how about at home? What about our family?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child: \u003c/strong>You like use my correct pronouns, and if you say it wrong, then you correct yourself and say sorry.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> Do you feel like the rest of our family and friends have been OK with your pronouns or do you think they understand it? Like grandma?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child:\u003c/strong> Yeah, fifty-fifty\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> Fifty-fifty. Yeah, I think sometimes, like, aunties will understand it and then your uncles kind of forget sometimes, huh? (Child yeah) And then your grandma’s, it’s a little hard because in our languages, there are no pronouns. And so for them, it’s everybody’s a they, or they mix hes and shes a lot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music bridge\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child:\u003c/strong> Maybe like the future could just be like people accept they/them or trans just as like would they accept she or he right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child:\u003c/strong> Like the same.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> What do you hope the future is going to be like for trans and non-binary kids like you?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child:\u003c/strong> I hope that it’s like you can just be trans or non-binary and no one will like judge you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child:\u003c/strong> What are your dreams for me?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> What are my dreams for you? Um, I hope in the future that it’s safe for you to be who you are and continue to be who you are. I feel like in the Bay Area, we’re pretty lucky and our family has been really supported in our community. And I hope that that can extend outside of, you know, where we live and kind of in the world. And I just hope that you can be happy, happy with who you are. And I don’t know, that you just get to be and do the things that you want to do and that people don’t put like limits on what you can do because of your gender identity. Yeah. And I hope that people can be as kind as you and as accepting as you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child:\u003c/strong> And thanks for letting me be who I am.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> Yeah. And thank you for letting me be your parent and for letting me love you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child:\u003c/strong> You’re welcome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Hunter and Shirin \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong style=\"font-size: 16px\">Sasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>\u003cspan style=\"font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400\">That kind of support – allowing gender-expansive kids to just be who they are – can come from many people in their lives…whether it’s a parent or someone else.\u003c/span>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval\u003cem>:\u003c/em>\u003c/strong> Hi, I’m Hunter. I’m 16 years old and I am a trans guy. And my pronouns are he, him. Now introduce yourself.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> OK. My name is Shirin. I am 48 years old. I identify as a lesbian. I came out of the closet in 1993. That was another century ago. And my pronouns are she and her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>Meet Hunter Stoval and Shirin Amini. Shirin is Hunter’s mom’s best friend. She’s known him his whole life. And she’s kind of Aunty to him. Let’s hear their conversation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>I think both of us have been through a lot in the past few years, which has made us a lot closer. We text a lot, we call a lot. You know all of my gossip. And I think since I came out, that’s only made us closer since we have even more things in common now. And yeah, I would say beyond you being my aunt, you’re one of my closest friends.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini: \u003c/strong>Oh, I love that because I was just, as you were talking, I was like, you know, yeah, ‘You’re like my nephew, but actually I feel like more just a friend’. So tell me about being trans. Will you remind me of your like coming out story?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so I came out probably two and a half or three years ago when I was still in middle school. And I first came out to my friends who were super supportive. And then I came to my parents. And it was very scary. It was probably the hardest thing I’ve ever done. I had been planning what I was going to say for a very long time. I wrote my mom a letter and I read it to her. And she didn’t really know what was going on, I would say, but she was supportive of me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think I came out to my mom the night prior to coming out to you, but I do think I came out to you before I came out to my dad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>And I think that was helpful for my mom as well so that she could have someone to talk to because she did tell me it was hard for her to keep secrets from my dad, So, I’m glad that she had you to rely on, and you to kind of almost help her through and um, because I know you understand, so….\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> I remember the night that you came out to me. We were in your room, and I was sitting on the floor, and you were on your bed, and we were talking. And I think maybe dating myself, my gaydar went off (laughs). And I had, like, this hunch, you know?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And I know I asked about your pronouns. And that was the first time you told me that they were he and they, at that time. And now, I don’t really think they is the pronoun you identify with, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I think part of my coming out … there’s definitely like a very common she/her, she/they, they/them, like a shift from, you know, one gender identity, like shifting from female to male. And I think at the time, I kind of included “they” in my pronouns because I was like, ‘Oh, I don’t want to make it difficult for other people. I wanna make this, you know, easy on everyone. If they don’t know my pronouns, like I won’t cry if they call me they,’ but that didn’t last very long, turns out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini: \u003c/strong>I was so happy that you told me and I feel like there was a little bit of excitement, right? There is like this relief. And so then I felt like, OK, we all right. It like bonded us a little bit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>Yeah. It might be because I’m older or it might be because of, you know, we’re both queer, a combination of the two, but I definitely think it made us closer because you felt like someone I could rely on as one of, as an older queer person, that I’m super, you now, close to and have known for the past 16 years of my life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>So, can you tell me about your coming out story? How old were you when you came out?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini: \u003c/strong>I was exactly your age. I was 16, it was 1993. And so when I came out, I first came out to my mom, who is a very loving and supportive mother. But back then she didn’t have any friends who had other gay children. She didn’t have any gay friends and I was like the only one. Which might seem bizarre today because it seems like most people know people in the LGBTQ+ community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The way I came out was my mom asked me, ‘Well, you’re not gay, are you?’ \u003cem>[Hunter laughs]\u003c/em> Which is always a great way to set up a question. And instead of confirming that I was not, I told her that, well, actually I was.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And for me, there was a ton of shame, because as supportive as my mom wanted to be, she was shocked and disappointed. And so I could feel that. And… It felt like immediately I was on this island by myself. And so I kind of carry that experience with me. And I think that it relates or I assume that a lot of trans kids and coming out kind of feel a little bit like that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I think I felt a similar way with my dad, who now is such a big supporter of me, but he had a very different upbringing than me, and doesn’t know any other parents with trans kids, I think, which makes it a bit harder.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So there was definitely a lot of, you know, shock and how do I feel about this and, you know, what are the next steps? But I think you were really helpful with that because my parents did know queer people, mostly, like, gay people or lesbian people, but regardless queer, so it really could have been worse. I’m very grateful for, you know, my community. I have a lot of family that lives locally who I’m really close to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> Awesome. I will say one thing that’s been really exciting, I guess, to see and watch is how you have come out and I’ve learned so much from you and I actually feel like you’ve been so inspirational to me even and I kind of look back and I think, ‘Oh my gosh, I wish I had the courage that you had when I came out,’ because you’re so authentic and you’re so yourself and you don’t feel that you have to fit a certain mold which I think is extremely powerful, to say that you’re trans this is how you feel, this is who you are And I think that that has been something that’s been really powerful for me to watch and learn and actually even help me be more authentic person even at this age.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>Thank you so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> So I think about like what an amazing human you are and all of your interests and things that you do. What would you say your superpower is?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>I would say my superpower is being creative. I’m really into art, I’m into fashion, and I think that helps me express my identity in creative ways. I am not super worried about being the most masculine person on earth. I love just wearing what I think is cute. I love fashion, I love creating art and writing about who I am, and I wouldn’t have it any way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> I totally agree, especially with your fits. You are a little bit of a fashionista, so I can always get some tips from you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>So, one of the other things I want to talk about is what has someone in your life done to make you feel supported in your identity?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> I think, honestly, that your mom was the most supportive person in my life, that was kind of a rock, like my rock of Gibraltar.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And I remember when I came out to your mom. We were parked out in front of her house in my 1979 baby blue Monte Carlo. I was dropping her off at night and I was so nervous. And back in that day, you kind of prefaced it with like, ‘Well, I think I’m bisexual. I don’t know, you know, I don’t really know if I’m totally gay.’ And your mom was like, ‘Yeah, I know, I’m not surprised,’ and I think I was more shocked. And then after that was in high school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And I think just having one person in your life that was just not embarrassed, like would be by my side. It was kind of like having this confidence kick by you. And that made actually a really significant difference. Somebody that was like open and go to gay pride parades with me and go out to places. I think that was the most helpful thing to have in my life especially at the beginning when I was younger.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Do you have somebody in your life? I mean, I’m curious what somebody has done to make you feel really supported through all this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>When I came out to my grandmother, instead of questioning anything, she’s a very solution-oriented person, and she was immediately like, ‘OK, so what does that mean? Like, what should we do?’ And there was no shock or whatever. She was just immediately so supportive of me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And then another thing that someone has done is my dad. I had to get my passport renewed, and there was a little option to change your gender marker, and he was like, ‘OK, do you want to change it to male?’ So now my passport says male on it, which you know feels so great and it feels really affirming, especially coming from my dad when our relationship was a little bit rocky when I first came out. He’s definitely grown a lot and I’m super proud of him in that way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> Just to clarify, Hunter, this all happened before the election, right? That you did this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>This was before the election, but this was when we kind of knew that Donald Trump was going to run for president and that with him possibly in office at the time, that that could affect a lot of things related to transgender rights and stuff like that. So…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> I’m happy you did it. It’s like you got in and like that window almost. I’ve been married more than once, but the first time I got married, there was a window right before Prop. 8 came out in California. They were allowing same-sex marriage and there was this window of opportunity that my partner and I seized at the time and went and got married during that window.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>Can you explain what Prop. 8 is?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini: \u003c/strong>Yeah, Prop. 8, which the LGBTQ community called “Prop Hate,” was a proposition that was very controversial to ban gay marriage in California. And they did ban gay marriage. And it was several years that gay people were banned from being married. However, those of us who got married in that window where it was legal for a short time were still considered married. I think that a lot of younger people can’t even imagine that could have been illegal and kind of the anti-gay sentiment\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the ’90s, when I came out, and there was a big incident that you’re probably not aware of, there was a big incident with a young guy named Matthew Shepard, who was gay, and he was killed in a homophobic gay hate crime. And that really rocked the gay community at that time. And I think ultimately, hopefully, we now feel safer; however, I think that the trans community may still be in a similar position today, and that I don’t want.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval:\u003c/strong> I still feel a sense of community with all the trans people in this country and in the world, and it’s really sad to see, in my opinion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini: \u003c/strong>What do you feel is the most difficult thing about where you are being trans youth at like your age or if you could change one thing or one thing that you struggle with, if you’re willing to share.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>I think for me, my biggest issue is in gender dysphoria. So, like, feeling, you know, insecure about my voice, feeling insecure about my body. Luckily, I’ve been gifted with height, so…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> Mm-hmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval:\u003c/strong> I know that’s an issue for a lot of, especially trans men. I love feeling confident in myself, but there are days where I do not feel confident. So yeah, it is hard, but it has gotten easier. And I hope that all trans people, especially the ones who are planning on coming out or just came out. I hope they know it does, it does get easier. And you know, I used to hate being trans, but now I love it. I have made so many friends and so many connections this way and gotten so much closer to my family too, which is really amazing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> That’s awesome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>What do you hope the future looks like for trans people or queer people in general?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> In my perfect world, I hope that it’s NBD, it’s like no big deal, that people have parents who are trans, children who are trans, everybody knows somebody. And it’s just become pretty much mainstream and acceptable. That coming out isn’t a big deal, that trans people have all the same rights that non-trans people have. The other thing is I want the future to be safe for trans and non-binary kids. And I think that it’s still unfortunately not.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What do you want your future to look like?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval:\u003c/strong> Um, I feel the same way. I think, you know, being trans has, of course it’s a big deal, but I wish it didn’t feel like such a big deal. I wish I just felt like, you now, another fun thing about me instead of my whole identity? I’m so much more than being trans and being trans is really hard and it could be so much easier, you know?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One thing that I really wish people would understand is that it’s OK to be confused when someone comes out, but it’s not an excuse to invalidate them. It’s OK for things to change. It’s OK that things weren’t like how they were when you were a kid and you know, the least you can do when someone comes out is just say, OK, I’m here for you, and I promise you the person coming out to you is having a harder time than you receiving the news.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> That is so true, Hunter. I actually was thinking that. I was like, well, for as much as it makes some people uncomfortable, it’s so much more uncomfortable being on the coming out side. It’s really difficult. I do think that you are a bit of a pioneer. Whether you want to be or not.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And I look back, and I kind of think, maybe I was a little bit of a pioneer. And there were a lot of people who were not accepting of gays, lesbians, let alone trans back then. And I think that I was able to change a lot of people’s minds as they got to know me. And it’s really important to come out because once people actually know that the people that they love and care about are LGBTQ, that’s when you change minds. And I’m really proud of you. It does take a lot of courage and I really hope that by you coming out now, I really believe that you’re changing a lot of people’s minds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>Thank you so much. And I really agree with that. I think a lot of the people who have come out too, like that I’m not super close to, but people still in my life, like my parents’ friends or whatever, I might be one of the first trans people that they’ve met and it feels really good to just be around them and be myself and help them understand, I’m still the same person as I was before I came out. It’s just you know, a slight shift in what pronoun you use for me, but besides that, I’m still me, you know?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini: \u003c/strong>Yep.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stovall: \u003c/strong>I think everyone should have a Shirin in their life. Like an older role model who’s also your friend, who you can tell anything and you know they won’t tell your parents unless you ask them to and they’re there to advocate for you and call you when you need anything. Just having that mentor-friend combination is just, you know, so perfect, so.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music bridge\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> Well, I love you with all my heart, always will, no matter what. And I wish everyone had a Hunter in their life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>You’re so sweet. (laughs)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music comes out\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>16-year-old Hunter Stoval in conversation with his special Aunty, Shirin Amini as part of our series \u003cem>Love You for You\u003c/em> where transgender and nonbinary kids are talking with people who love and support them and help them to thrive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Next week a conversation between kids and their grandparents…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Older sister: What do you want people who are targeting trans kids right now to know about your grandkid? \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Grandpa: \u003c/em>\u003cem>Just about how special she is. That you gotta know the person.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Upbeat music in\u003c/em>\u003cstrong>\u003cem>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nSasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>That’s next week on the California Report Magazine.\u003cbr>\nThe interviews in our Love You for You series were produced by Tessa Paoli and Suzie Racho. Our senior editor is Victoria Mauleon. Our engineer is Brendan Willard. Srishti Prabha is our intern. Special thanks to Tuck Woodstock, host of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.genderpodcast.com/\">Gender Reveal podcas\u003c/a>\u003ca href=\"https://www.genderpodcast.com/\">t,\u003c/a> for all his help on the series.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Special thanks to KQED’s Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Ana de Almeida Amaral and Anna Vignet for their help on the series.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’m Sasha Khokha of the California Report Magazine, Your State, Your stories.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/transgender\">Transgender\u003c/a> and nonbinary kids have been in the headlines a lot lately, and recent \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/trump-administration\">Trump administration\u003c/a> policies have only intensified this focus. But we rarely hear these young people tell their own stories, about growing up with love and support from their families and communities, or about their complex, multifaceted identities that go beyond gender.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Our \u003cem>Love You for You\u003c/em> series takes a unique approach, featuring conversations between trans and nonbinary youth from across California and the people in their lives who love and mentor them: parents, grandparents, siblings and others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This series features six conversations, packaged into three episodes. (Note that most families participating in the series have decided not to use their names to protect their identities).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This week, we’ll hear kids exploring identity and coming out to family. In the first conversation, a nonbinary 8-year-old talks with their mom about navigating school life and connecting with their Vietnamese and Taiwanese relatives. Then, 16-year-old Hunter Stoval sits down with his mom’s best friend, Shirin Amini, who came out as a lesbian at his age.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC9033219123\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Guests:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>A mom and 8-year-old nonbinary kid (they/them)\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Hunter Stoval, a 16-year-old trans boy (he/him) and Shirin Amini (she/her)\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12062276\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/2.png\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12062276\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/2.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1080\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/2.png 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/2-160x90.png 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/2-1536x864.png 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/2-1600x900.png 1600w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An illustration of an 8-year-old and their mom (who wish to remain anonymous for safety) in a photo booth. As part of “Love You for You,” a new California Report Magazine series uplifting the voices of trans youth, the kid talks to their mom about navigating their gender identity at school and with their Vietnamese and Taiwanese relatives. \u003ccite>(Anna Vignet/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cstrong>Love You for You Episode 1: Coming Out to Love \u003c/strong>\u003c/strong>\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Sasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>Hey, it’s Sasha Khokha. And here on the California Report’s weekly magazine show, we get to do something really special: take deep dives into issues that shape who we are as Californians. Spend time to really get to know the people whose stories and voices we bring you. So you can understand the complexity of their experience. The nuances, not just the headlines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Well, over the next few weeks, we’re gonna do just that by introducing you to some transgender, nonbinary and other gender expansive youth and their families.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Trans kids have been in the headlines a lot recently, especially since the Trump Administration has started targeting them through executive orders and policies.We’ve been hearing a lot of debates over whether they’re being harmed by the medical system or their schools.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But we’re not hearing much from those young people themselves about their lives. And most media coverage focuses on the hardships trans kids can face: suicide risk, depression, rejection from their families, lack of access to supportive care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>All of those factors are real. But I’ve got some amazing trans and nonbinary kids in my life, and it seems like we rarely hear stories about these young people are thriving with love and support from their families and communities. And how trans youth actually have complex, multifaceted identities that go beyond their gender. They’re scholars, siblings, artists, athletes and so much more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So over the next few weeks, we’ll introduce you to some gender-expansive youth from across California and the people in their lives who love, support, and mentor them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Montage of voices\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Being trans, of course it’s a big deal, but I wish it didn’t feel like such a big deal. I wish I just felt like, you now, another fun thing about me instead of my whole identity? \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>What do you want people who are targeting trans kids right now to know about your grandkid? \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Just about how special she is. That you gotta know the person. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Thanks for letting me be who I am. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>And thank you for letting me be your parent and for letting me love you. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>What are you hopeful for the future will look like for trans kids?\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>All the trans people I know have one vision and it is just a society where being trans isn’t this whole like thing, right?Where I can just say, ‘Hey, I’m trans,’ and everyone’s like, ‘OK, cool.’\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>We’re gonna take a page from the long-running storytelling project “Storycorps” and listen in as these young people have conversations with their parents, their grandparents, or their mentors, about how they can thrive with love. We’re calling the series “Love You for You.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This week, we’ll hear from two young people. An 8-year-old in conversation with their mom…and then, a 16-year-old talking to his “Aunty” – his mom’s best friend, who’s a lesbian. And just a note, many of the youth in this series have chosen to stay anonymous and not use their names out of fear that they and their families could face harm in this current climate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here’s our first conversation…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>[Mother and child speak in Vietnamese: I will ask some questions so the answer is in American. OK.]\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> Can you tell me a little bit about yourself?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child\u003c/strong>: I like to play soccer and read, and my family is from Asia, like Vietnam and Taiwan, and my pronouns is they/them and I’m 8 years old.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What are you most proud of about me?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> What am I most proud of about you? Um, I think in terms of being non-binary that you knew when you were very young. You were only about four years old and you just kind of told me that you weren’t sure that you fit being either a boy or a girl and you felt maybe like you were neither or both.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so that was something for us to learn because we didn’t think kids that young knew that about themselves. And so we had to learn a lot about it and support you. And you’ve always just kind stuck with it, even though people ask a lot, like, ‘How do you know?’ Like you just know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music bridge \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> What does it feel like to be non-binary?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child: \u003c/strong>Um, Different\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> Different in what way?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child:\u003c/strong> Just kids sometimes tease me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother: \u003c/strong>Kids sometimes tease you?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child \u003c/strong>Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> What do they say?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child: \u003c/strong>They’re just like, like ‘Why are you in here? You’re not allowed to.’\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> Oh, when you go to the bathrooms?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child: \u003c/strong>Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> And it sounds like that made you feel bad. I remember it made you feel really sad when you were little.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child: \u003c/strong>I’m sad that, like, some people don’t like that I’m non-binary and they don’t want it to be allowed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> Oh, yeah, do you mean at school or just like in the world?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child:\u003c/strong> In the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> In the world. Yeah, it feels like you can’t be yourself?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child:\u003c/strong> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> Does it feel like there’s, like, new rules about it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child:\u003c/strong> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> Yeah? And that makes you sad?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child:\u003c/strong> Mm-hmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music sneaks in\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> And before it was hard, if people got your pronouns wrong, you wouldn’t say anything. And now you’ll correct people. And like at school, like sometimes you wear a bracelet that says what your pronouns are. You know, we found ways at school to find safe spaces for bathrooms, right? You’ll go to the principal’s office or in the library. Um, but sometimes if you want to use the restroom, you’re not letting other kids like bully you, um, out of the space anymore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child: \u003c/strong>If they say I can’t, I’m just like ‘Too bad. I’m gonna go anyway.’\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> Yeah.(laughs)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You have really good friends at school that use the buddy system and they’ll go with you, too, so it’s almost like you have an extra person there that’s an ally. And then how about at home? What about our family?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child: \u003c/strong>You like use my correct pronouns, and if you say it wrong, then you correct yourself and say sorry.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> Do you feel like the rest of our family and friends have been OK with your pronouns or do you think they understand it? Like grandma?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child:\u003c/strong> Yeah, fifty-fifty\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> Fifty-fifty. Yeah, I think sometimes, like, aunties will understand it and then your uncles kind of forget sometimes, huh? (Child yeah) And then your grandma’s, it’s a little hard because in our languages, there are no pronouns. And so for them, it’s everybody’s a they, or they mix hes and shes a lot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music bridge\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child:\u003c/strong> Maybe like the future could just be like people accept they/them or trans just as like would they accept she or he right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child:\u003c/strong> Like the same.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> What do you hope the future is going to be like for trans and non-binary kids like you?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child:\u003c/strong> I hope that it’s like you can just be trans or non-binary and no one will like judge you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music fades \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child:\u003c/strong> What are your dreams for me?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> What are my dreams for you? Um, I hope in the future that it’s safe for you to be who you are and continue to be who you are. I feel like in the Bay Area, we’re pretty lucky and our family has been really supported in our community. And I hope that that can extend outside of, you know, where we live and kind of in the world. And I just hope that you can be happy, happy with who you are. And I don’t know, that you just get to be and do the things that you want to do and that people don’t put like limits on what you can do because of your gender identity. Yeah. And I hope that people can be as kind as you and as accepting as you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child:\u003c/strong> And thanks for letting me be who I am.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mother:\u003c/strong> Yeah. And thank you for letting me be your parent and for letting me love you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Child:\u003c/strong> You’re welcome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Hunter and Shirin \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong style=\"font-size: 16px\">Sasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>\u003cspan style=\"font-size: 16px;font-weight: 400\">That kind of support – allowing gender-expansive kids to just be who they are – can come from many people in their lives…whether it’s a parent or someone else.\u003c/span>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval\u003cem>:\u003c/em>\u003c/strong> Hi, I’m Hunter. I’m 16 years old and I am a trans guy. And my pronouns are he, him. Now introduce yourself.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> OK. My name is Shirin. I am 48 years old. I identify as a lesbian. I came out of the closet in 1993. That was another century ago. And my pronouns are she and her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>Meet Hunter Stoval and Shirin Amini. Shirin is Hunter’s mom’s best friend. She’s known him his whole life. And she’s kind of Aunty to him. Let’s hear their conversation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>I think both of us have been through a lot in the past few years, which has made us a lot closer. We text a lot, we call a lot. You know all of my gossip. And I think since I came out, that’s only made us closer since we have even more things in common now. And yeah, I would say beyond you being my aunt, you’re one of my closest friends.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini: \u003c/strong>Oh, I love that because I was just, as you were talking, I was like, you know, yeah, ‘You’re like my nephew, but actually I feel like more just a friend’. So tell me about being trans. Will you remind me of your like coming out story?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so I came out probably two and a half or three years ago when I was still in middle school. And I first came out to my friends who were super supportive. And then I came to my parents. And it was very scary. It was probably the hardest thing I’ve ever done. I had been planning what I was going to say for a very long time. I wrote my mom a letter and I read it to her. And she didn’t really know what was going on, I would say, but she was supportive of me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think I came out to my mom the night prior to coming out to you, but I do think I came out to you before I came out to my dad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>And I think that was helpful for my mom as well so that she could have someone to talk to because she did tell me it was hard for her to keep secrets from my dad, So, I’m glad that she had you to rely on, and you to kind of almost help her through and um, because I know you understand, so….\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> I remember the night that you came out to me. We were in your room, and I was sitting on the floor, and you were on your bed, and we were talking. And I think maybe dating myself, my gaydar went off (laughs). And I had, like, this hunch, you know?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And I know I asked about your pronouns. And that was the first time you told me that they were he and they, at that time. And now, I don’t really think they is the pronoun you identify with, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I think part of my coming out … there’s definitely like a very common she/her, she/they, they/them, like a shift from, you know, one gender identity, like shifting from female to male. And I think at the time, I kind of included “they” in my pronouns because I was like, ‘Oh, I don’t want to make it difficult for other people. I wanna make this, you know, easy on everyone. If they don’t know my pronouns, like I won’t cry if they call me they,’ but that didn’t last very long, turns out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini: \u003c/strong>I was so happy that you told me and I feel like there was a little bit of excitement, right? There is like this relief. And so then I felt like, OK, we all right. It like bonded us a little bit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>Yeah. It might be because I’m older or it might be because of, you know, we’re both queer, a combination of the two, but I definitely think it made us closer because you felt like someone I could rely on as one of, as an older queer person, that I’m super, you now, close to and have known for the past 16 years of my life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>So, can you tell me about your coming out story? How old were you when you came out?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini: \u003c/strong>I was exactly your age. I was 16, it was 1993. And so when I came out, I first came out to my mom, who is a very loving and supportive mother. But back then she didn’t have any friends who had other gay children. She didn’t have any gay friends and I was like the only one. Which might seem bizarre today because it seems like most people know people in the LGBTQ+ community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The way I came out was my mom asked me, ‘Well, you’re not gay, are you?’ \u003cem>[Hunter laughs]\u003c/em> Which is always a great way to set up a question. And instead of confirming that I was not, I told her that, well, actually I was.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And for me, there was a ton of shame, because as supportive as my mom wanted to be, she was shocked and disappointed. And so I could feel that. And… It felt like immediately I was on this island by myself. And so I kind of carry that experience with me. And I think that it relates or I assume that a lot of trans kids and coming out kind of feel a little bit like that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I think I felt a similar way with my dad, who now is such a big supporter of me, but he had a very different upbringing than me, and doesn’t know any other parents with trans kids, I think, which makes it a bit harder.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So there was definitely a lot of, you know, shock and how do I feel about this and, you know, what are the next steps? But I think you were really helpful with that because my parents did know queer people, mostly, like, gay people or lesbian people, but regardless queer, so it really could have been worse. I’m very grateful for, you know, my community. I have a lot of family that lives locally who I’m really close to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> Awesome. I will say one thing that’s been really exciting, I guess, to see and watch is how you have come out and I’ve learned so much from you and I actually feel like you’ve been so inspirational to me even and I kind of look back and I think, ‘Oh my gosh, I wish I had the courage that you had when I came out,’ because you’re so authentic and you’re so yourself and you don’t feel that you have to fit a certain mold which I think is extremely powerful, to say that you’re trans this is how you feel, this is who you are And I think that that has been something that’s been really powerful for me to watch and learn and actually even help me be more authentic person even at this age.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>Thank you so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> So I think about like what an amazing human you are and all of your interests and things that you do. What would you say your superpower is?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>I would say my superpower is being creative. I’m really into art, I’m into fashion, and I think that helps me express my identity in creative ways. I am not super worried about being the most masculine person on earth. I love just wearing what I think is cute. I love fashion, I love creating art and writing about who I am, and I wouldn’t have it any way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> I totally agree, especially with your fits. You are a little bit of a fashionista, so I can always get some tips from you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>So, one of the other things I want to talk about is what has someone in your life done to make you feel supported in your identity?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> I think, honestly, that your mom was the most supportive person in my life, that was kind of a rock, like my rock of Gibraltar.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And I remember when I came out to your mom. We were parked out in front of her house in my 1979 baby blue Monte Carlo. I was dropping her off at night and I was so nervous. And back in that day, you kind of prefaced it with like, ‘Well, I think I’m bisexual. I don’t know, you know, I don’t really know if I’m totally gay.’ And your mom was like, ‘Yeah, I know, I’m not surprised,’ and I think I was more shocked. And then after that was in high school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And I think just having one person in your life that was just not embarrassed, like would be by my side. It was kind of like having this confidence kick by you. And that made actually a really significant difference. Somebody that was like open and go to gay pride parades with me and go out to places. I think that was the most helpful thing to have in my life especially at the beginning when I was younger.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Do you have somebody in your life? I mean, I’m curious what somebody has done to make you feel really supported through all this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>When I came out to my grandmother, instead of questioning anything, she’s a very solution-oriented person, and she was immediately like, ‘OK, so what does that mean? Like, what should we do?’ And there was no shock or whatever. She was just immediately so supportive of me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And then another thing that someone has done is my dad. I had to get my passport renewed, and there was a little option to change your gender marker, and he was like, ‘OK, do you want to change it to male?’ So now my passport says male on it, which you know feels so great and it feels really affirming, especially coming from my dad when our relationship was a little bit rocky when I first came out. He’s definitely grown a lot and I’m super proud of him in that way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> Just to clarify, Hunter, this all happened before the election, right? That you did this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>This was before the election, but this was when we kind of knew that Donald Trump was going to run for president and that with him possibly in office at the time, that that could affect a lot of things related to transgender rights and stuff like that. So…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> I’m happy you did it. It’s like you got in and like that window almost. I’ve been married more than once, but the first time I got married, there was a window right before Prop. 8 came out in California. They were allowing same-sex marriage and there was this window of opportunity that my partner and I seized at the time and went and got married during that window.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>Can you explain what Prop. 8 is?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini: \u003c/strong>Yeah, Prop. 8, which the LGBTQ community called “Prop Hate,” was a proposition that was very controversial to ban gay marriage in California. And they did ban gay marriage. And it was several years that gay people were banned from being married. However, those of us who got married in that window where it was legal for a short time were still considered married. I think that a lot of younger people can’t even imagine that could have been illegal and kind of the anti-gay sentiment\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the ’90s, when I came out, and there was a big incident that you’re probably not aware of, there was a big incident with a young guy named Matthew Shepard, who was gay, and he was killed in a homophobic gay hate crime. And that really rocked the gay community at that time. And I think ultimately, hopefully, we now feel safer; however, I think that the trans community may still be in a similar position today, and that I don’t want.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval:\u003c/strong> I still feel a sense of community with all the trans people in this country and in the world, and it’s really sad to see, in my opinion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini: \u003c/strong>What do you feel is the most difficult thing about where you are being trans youth at like your age or if you could change one thing or one thing that you struggle with, if you’re willing to share.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>I think for me, my biggest issue is in gender dysphoria. So, like, feeling, you know, insecure about my voice, feeling insecure about my body. Luckily, I’ve been gifted with height, so…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> Mm-hmm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval:\u003c/strong> I know that’s an issue for a lot of, especially trans men. I love feeling confident in myself, but there are days where I do not feel confident. So yeah, it is hard, but it has gotten easier. And I hope that all trans people, especially the ones who are planning on coming out or just came out. I hope they know it does, it does get easier. And you know, I used to hate being trans, but now I love it. I have made so many friends and so many connections this way and gotten so much closer to my family too, which is really amazing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> That’s awesome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>What do you hope the future looks like for trans people or queer people in general?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> In my perfect world, I hope that it’s NBD, it’s like no big deal, that people have parents who are trans, children who are trans, everybody knows somebody. And it’s just become pretty much mainstream and acceptable. That coming out isn’t a big deal, that trans people have all the same rights that non-trans people have. The other thing is I want the future to be safe for trans and non-binary kids. And I think that it’s still unfortunately not.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What do you want your future to look like?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval:\u003c/strong> Um, I feel the same way. I think, you know, being trans has, of course it’s a big deal, but I wish it didn’t feel like such a big deal. I wish I just felt like, you now, another fun thing about me instead of my whole identity? I’m so much more than being trans and being trans is really hard and it could be so much easier, you know?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One thing that I really wish people would understand is that it’s OK to be confused when someone comes out, but it’s not an excuse to invalidate them. It’s OK for things to change. It’s OK that things weren’t like how they were when you were a kid and you know, the least you can do when someone comes out is just say, OK, I’m here for you, and I promise you the person coming out to you is having a harder time than you receiving the news.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> That is so true, Hunter. I actually was thinking that. I was like, well, for as much as it makes some people uncomfortable, it’s so much more uncomfortable being on the coming out side. It’s really difficult. I do think that you are a bit of a pioneer. Whether you want to be or not.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And I look back, and I kind of think, maybe I was a little bit of a pioneer. And there were a lot of people who were not accepting of gays, lesbians, let alone trans back then. And I think that I was able to change a lot of people’s minds as they got to know me. And it’s really important to come out because once people actually know that the people that they love and care about are LGBTQ, that’s when you change minds. And I’m really proud of you. It does take a lot of courage and I really hope that by you coming out now, I really believe that you’re changing a lot of people’s minds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>Thank you so much. And I really agree with that. I think a lot of the people who have come out too, like that I’m not super close to, but people still in my life, like my parents’ friends or whatever, I might be one of the first trans people that they’ve met and it feels really good to just be around them and be myself and help them understand, I’m still the same person as I was before I came out. It’s just you know, a slight shift in what pronoun you use for me, but besides that, I’m still me, you know?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini: \u003c/strong>Yep.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stovall: \u003c/strong>I think everyone should have a Shirin in their life. Like an older role model who’s also your friend, who you can tell anything and you know they won’t tell your parents unless you ask them to and they’re there to advocate for you and call you when you need anything. Just having that mentor-friend combination is just, you know, so perfect, so.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music bridge\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shirin Amini:\u003c/strong> Well, I love you with all my heart, always will, no matter what. And I wish everyone had a Hunter in their life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hunter Stoval: \u003c/strong>You’re so sweet. (laughs)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Music comes out\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>16-year-old Hunter Stoval in conversation with his special Aunty, Shirin Amini as part of our series \u003cem>Love You for You\u003c/em> where transgender and nonbinary kids are talking with people who love and support them and help them to thrive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Next week a conversation between kids and their grandparents…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Older sister: What do you want people who are targeting trans kids right now to know about your grandkid? \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Grandpa: \u003c/em>\u003cem>Just about how special she is. That you gotta know the person.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Upbeat music in\u003c/em>\u003cstrong>\u003cem>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nSasha Khokha: \u003c/strong>That’s next week on the California Report Magazine.\u003cbr>\nThe interviews in our Love You for You series were produced by Tessa Paoli and Suzie Racho. Our senior editor is Victoria Mauleon. Our engineer is Brendan Willard. Srishti Prabha is our intern. Special thanks to Tuck Woodstock, host of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.genderpodcast.com/\">Gender Reveal podcas\u003c/a>\u003ca href=\"https://www.genderpodcast.com/\">t,\u003c/a> for all his help on the series.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Special thanks to KQED’s Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Ana de Almeida Amaral and Anna Vignet for their help on the series.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’m Sasha Khokha of the California Report Magazine, Your State, Your stories.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>Gov. Gavin Newsom said \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12047432/us-sues-california-over-its-refusal-to-ban-transgender-athletes-from-girls-sports\">state law needs to be changed\u003c/a> to clarify when and how transgender women and girls compete in women’s sports.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s after criticism by LGBTQ+ advocates and members of his own party for comments made during a March podcast interview with Charlie Kirk, in which Newsom agreed with the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12055641/after-kirks-death-trump-targets-critics-in-expanding-free-speech-fight\">late conservative activist\u003c/a> that it was unfair for a trans teen girl to compete in a high school track and field competition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When asked about his stance Friday on KQED’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12061434/newsom-trump-sending-troops-to-monitor-californias-election-is-a-2026-preview\">Political Breakdown\u003c/a>, Newsom touted his record of supporting bills \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12060369/tracking-newsoms-record-on-pro-lgbtq-laws-signed-and-vetoed-this-session\">protecting trans people\u003c/a>, but said he has struggled to find a way to accommodate people’s concerns on this issue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I disagree with all the vitriol, but I agree on the issue of fairness in that respect, that it is unfair in these circumstances and I haven’t been able to reconcile it,” Newsom said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Experts have said athletic ability varies greatly across gender, based on many factors not exclusive to sex assigned at birth. And scientific reviews, including one by the \u003ca href=\"https://hal.science/hal-04477646/file/transgenderwomenathletesandelitesport-ascientificreview-e-final%20%281%29.pdf\">Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport\u003c/a>, show biomedical factors related to puberty do not predict athletic performance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom signed a bill into \u003ca href=\"https://www.outsports.com/2025/10/15/24120449/gavin-newsom-california-equity-sports-trans-athletes-commission-cif/\">law\u003c/a> Oct. 13 that requires the creation of a state commission to study inclusion in youth sports, including of trans youth. The commission has been alternately praised and criticized — while some Democrats have championed the study as a means to improve access for all children, regardless of gender identity, some advocates worry the commission could serve as a backdoor ban for trans kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For GOP legislators, the bill is seen as a means to oppose President Donald Trump’s executive order calling for a blanket ban on transgender female athletes who compete in women’s and girls’ sports.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12041807\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12041807\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/TrumpTransAthletesGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1251\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/TrumpTransAthletesGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/TrumpTransAthletesGetty-800x500.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/TrumpTransAthletesGetty-1020x638.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/TrumpTransAthletesGetty-160x100.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/TrumpTransAthletesGetty-1536x961.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/TrumpTransAthletesGetty-1920x1201.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A new state law creating a commission to study inclusion in youth sports has drawn Republican criticism as a challenge to President Donald Trump’s ban on transgender girls competing in women’s events. \u003ccite>(Keith Birmingham/MediaNews Group/Pasadena Star-News via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>While Newsom has styled himself as a champion for LGBTQ+ rights, and as San Francisco mayor, engaged in civil disobedience to allow gay couples to marry at City Hall, his podcast interview with Kirk alienated many LGBTQ+ constituents, as the federal government and red states continue to chip away at hard-won progress.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As health and LGBTQ advocates who have been bolstered by Governor Newsom’s past support, we feel profoundly betrayed and outraged by his remarks,” Dannie Ceseña, director of the California LGBTQ Health and Human Services Network, said in a written statement after the episode was released. “Trust has been shattered.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Still, months later, Newsom stood by his statements to Kirk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s some nuance here,” he told KQED. “And so I said what I thought. And you know what? I can’t tell you how many people have a similar point of view, but don’t say it publicly.”[aside postID=news_12061445 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251024-NEWSOM-ON-PB-MD-04-KQED.jpg']Sports are critical for young people, Newsom added, saying that playing baseball and basketball growing up in Marin County are the reason he got to where he is now. For trans kids, he said, there should be distinctions between competitive and recreational sports.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t roll people under the bus, quite the contrary,” Newsom continued. “But when it comes to sports, that’s impacting other people’s rights.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California’s high school athletics governing body follows 2013 state \u003ca href=\"https://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-law-allows-transgender-students-to-pick-bathrooms-sports-teams-they-identify-with/\">legislation\u003c/a> that explicitly allows students to play on sports teams that align with their gender identity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But the California Interscholastic Federation \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12041770/california-tweaks-trans-athlete-rules-after-trump-threatens-to-halt-federal-funding\">altered its rules this summer\u003c/a> for the state track and field meet, after backlash from Trump and conservatives. The CIF rule allowed an additional student to compete in the events a trans girl was competing in to try to find a middle ground in the political discourse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Trump administration is \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/california-transgender-athletes-sports-girls-trump-3b0d39d17598ae2bd15281e56ceaf2dc\">now\u003c/a> suing the CIF and the state’s education department.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom, who said he has a trans godson, said he has worked with experts to figure out a solution.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was an experience for me born over the actual application and responsibility as governor to try to figure this out, and I couldn’t,” he said. “And maybe other people can, but I haven’t been able to figure it out.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Gov. Gavin Newsom said \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12047432/us-sues-california-over-its-refusal-to-ban-transgender-athletes-from-girls-sports\">state law needs to be changed\u003c/a> to clarify when and how transgender women and girls compete in women’s sports.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s after criticism by LGBTQ+ advocates and members of his own party for comments made during a March podcast interview with Charlie Kirk, in which Newsom agreed with the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12055641/after-kirks-death-trump-targets-critics-in-expanding-free-speech-fight\">late conservative activist\u003c/a> that it was unfair for a trans teen girl to compete in a high school track and field competition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When asked about his stance Friday on KQED’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12061434/newsom-trump-sending-troops-to-monitor-californias-election-is-a-2026-preview\">Political Breakdown\u003c/a>, Newsom touted his record of supporting bills \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12060369/tracking-newsoms-record-on-pro-lgbtq-laws-signed-and-vetoed-this-session\">protecting trans people\u003c/a>, but said he has struggled to find a way to accommodate people’s concerns on this issue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I disagree with all the vitriol, but I agree on the issue of fairness in that respect, that it is unfair in these circumstances and I haven’t been able to reconcile it,” Newsom said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Experts have said athletic ability varies greatly across gender, based on many factors not exclusive to sex assigned at birth. And scientific reviews, including one by the \u003ca href=\"https://hal.science/hal-04477646/file/transgenderwomenathletesandelitesport-ascientificreview-e-final%20%281%29.pdf\">Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport\u003c/a>, show biomedical factors related to puberty do not predict athletic performance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom signed a bill into \u003ca href=\"https://www.outsports.com/2025/10/15/24120449/gavin-newsom-california-equity-sports-trans-athletes-commission-cif/\">law\u003c/a> Oct. 13 that requires the creation of a state commission to study inclusion in youth sports, including of trans youth. The commission has been alternately praised and criticized — while some Democrats have championed the study as a means to improve access for all children, regardless of gender identity, some advocates worry the commission could serve as a backdoor ban for trans kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For GOP legislators, the bill is seen as a means to oppose President Donald Trump’s executive order calling for a blanket ban on transgender female athletes who compete in women’s and girls’ sports.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12041807\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12041807\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/TrumpTransAthletesGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1251\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/TrumpTransAthletesGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/TrumpTransAthletesGetty-800x500.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/TrumpTransAthletesGetty-1020x638.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/TrumpTransAthletesGetty-160x100.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/TrumpTransAthletesGetty-1536x961.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/TrumpTransAthletesGetty-1920x1201.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A new state law creating a commission to study inclusion in youth sports has drawn Republican criticism as a challenge to President Donald Trump’s ban on transgender girls competing in women’s events. \u003ccite>(Keith Birmingham/MediaNews Group/Pasadena Star-News via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>While Newsom has styled himself as a champion for LGBTQ+ rights, and as San Francisco mayor, engaged in civil disobedience to allow gay couples to marry at City Hall, his podcast interview with Kirk alienated many LGBTQ+ constituents, as the federal government and red states continue to chip away at hard-won progress.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As health and LGBTQ advocates who have been bolstered by Governor Newsom’s past support, we feel profoundly betrayed and outraged by his remarks,” Dannie Ceseña, director of the California LGBTQ Health and Human Services Network, said in a written statement after the episode was released. “Trust has been shattered.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Still, months later, Newsom stood by his statements to Kirk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s some nuance here,” he told KQED. “And so I said what I thought. And you know what? I can’t tell you how many people have a similar point of view, but don’t say it publicly.”\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Sports are critical for young people, Newsom added, saying that playing baseball and basketball growing up in Marin County are the reason he got to where he is now. For trans kids, he said, there should be distinctions between competitive and recreational sports.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t roll people under the bus, quite the contrary,” Newsom continued. “But when it comes to sports, that’s impacting other people’s rights.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California’s high school athletics governing body follows 2013 state \u003ca href=\"https://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-law-allows-transgender-students-to-pick-bathrooms-sports-teams-they-identify-with/\">legislation\u003c/a> that explicitly allows students to play on sports teams that align with their gender identity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But the California Interscholastic Federation \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12041770/california-tweaks-trans-athlete-rules-after-trump-threatens-to-halt-federal-funding\">altered its rules this summer\u003c/a> for the state track and field meet, after backlash from Trump and conservatives. The CIF rule allowed an additional student to compete in the events a trans girl was competing in to try to find a middle ground in the political discourse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Trump administration is \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/california-transgender-athletes-sports-girls-trump-3b0d39d17598ae2bd15281e56ceaf2dc\">now\u003c/a> suing the CIF and the state’s education department.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom, who said he has a trans godson, said he has worked with experts to figure out a solution.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was an experience for me born over the actual application and responsibility as governor to try to figure this out, and I couldn’t,” he said. “And maybe other people can, but I haven’t been able to figure it out.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "Even in California, Hospitals are Halting Gender Affirming Care for Trans Youth",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hospitals are pausing or ending gender-affirming care for transgender youth, even in blue states like California. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Stanford and Kaiser have both halted gender-related surgeries for minors, and Children’s Hospital Los Angeles shut down its venerated Center for Transyouth Health and Development earlier this summer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Marisa is joined by the San Francisco Chronicle’s Erin Allday to discuss the current state of trans youth healthcare and how families in the Bay Area are responding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For more political analysis, sign up for \u003ca class=\"c-link\" href=\"https://www.kqed.org/newsletters/political-breakdown\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" data-stringify-link=\"https://www.kqed.org/newsletters/political-breakdown\" data-sk=\"tooltip_parent\">Political Breakdown’s newsletter\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"title": "Even in California, Hospitals are Halting Gender Affirming Care for Trans Youth | KQED",
"description": "Hospitals are pausing or ending gender-affirming care for transgender youth, even in blue states like California. Stanford and Kaiser have both halted gender-related surgeries for minors, and Children’s Hospital Los Angeles shut down its venerated Center for Transyouth Health and Development earlier this summer. Marisa is joined by the San Francisco Chronicle’s Erin Allday to",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hospitals are pausing or ending gender-affirming care for transgender youth, even in blue states like California. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Stanford and Kaiser have both halted gender-related surgeries for minors, and Children’s Hospital Los Angeles shut down its venerated Center for Transyouth Health and Development earlier this summer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Marisa is joined by the San Francisco Chronicle’s Erin Allday to discuss the current state of trans youth healthcare and how families in the Bay Area are responding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For more political analysis, sign up for \u003ca class=\"c-link\" href=\"https://www.kqed.org/newsletters/political-breakdown\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" data-stringify-link=\"https://www.kqed.org/newsletters/political-breakdown\" data-sk=\"tooltip_parent\">Political Breakdown’s newsletter\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"title": "Yosemite Biologist Fired After Hanging Transgender Pride Flag From El Capitan",
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"headTitle": "Yosemite Biologist Fired After Hanging Transgender Pride Flag From El Capitan | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>A \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/yosemite-national-park\">Yosemite National Park\u003c/a> ranger was fired last week after they hung a transgender pride flag from famed climbing wall El Capitan this spring.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>SJ Joslin, formerly a wildlife biologist at Yosemite, and several others lugged a 58 lb flag up the imposing wall and flew the flag on a heart-shaped feature of the rock for two hours in a celebration of their transgender identity, they said in an interview with KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Joslin was not on duty at the time and was not acting on behalf of the National Parks Service, they said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I just thought: What better of a place to hang a huge flag whose entire point is acceptance and celebration of a group of people — and really everyone?” they said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But last week, Joslin received their termination letter, which said they “failed to demonstrate acceptable conduct.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rachel Pawlitz, spokesperson for the National Park Service, would not comment on Joslin’s specific case, but confirmed NPS is “pursuing administrative action against multiple employees for failing to follow National Park Service regulations.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11947774\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11947774\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/04/RS64733_GettyImages-1244209043-qut.jpg\" alt=\"A view of El Capitan in Yosemite, a sheer rock face with a bright blue sky behind it. An orange car drives on the road in the foreground.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/04/RS64733_GettyImages-1244209043-qut.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/04/RS64733_GettyImages-1244209043-qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/04/RS64733_GettyImages-1244209043-qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/04/RS64733_GettyImages-1244209043-qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/04/RS64733_GettyImages-1244209043-qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A view of El Capitan in Yosemite National Park on Oct. 23, 2022. \u003ccite>(Tayfun Coskun/Anadolu Agency via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Pawlitz wrote in a statement that there have been multiple “unauthorized demonstrations involving El Capitan” and that “displaying signs, banners, and flags outside of designated First-Amendment areas detracts from the visitor experience and the protection of the park.” Demonstrations, she added, require a \u003ca href=\"https://www.nps.gov/yose/learn/management/upload/ep-compendium.pdf\">permit\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Yosemite has First Amendment \u003ca href=\"https://public-nps.opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/nps::yosemite-national-park-designated-first-amendment-areas-open-data/about\">zones\u003c/a>, where 25 or more people can gather in permitted demonstrations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We want to emphasize that we take the protection of the park’s resources and the experience of our visitors very seriously, and will not tolerate violations of laws and regulations that impact those resources and experiences,” Pawlitz wrote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Joslin said flying the flag was not a demonstration, but rather a celebration of identity, and criticized the parks service for taking action against them and not others who have similarly displayed flags on the prominent rock wall facing Yosemite Valley.[aside postID=news_12050945 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/08/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-1_qed.jpg']In fact, the park changed its flag-flying \u003ca href=\"https://www.climbing.com/news/yosemite-bans-large-flags-on-el-cap-and-other-walls/\">policy \u003c/a>just one day after Joslin scaled the wall, banning large flags over 15 square feet in wilderness areas within the park.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Hanging flags on El Capitan goes back decades,” they said, referring to a recent “\u003ca href=\"https://www.climbing.com/news/stop-the-genocide-banner-from-el-capitan/\">Stop the Genocide” flag\u003c/a> hung in 2024 and an upside-down\u003ca href=\"https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/24/travel/upside-down-american-flag-firefall-yosemite\"> American flag\u003c/a> flown in February of this year, among many others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Yet, “we are the only group of people that have been prosecuted for hanging a flag.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Joanna Citron Day, \u003ca href=\"https://peer.org/\">general counsel\u003c/a> at Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility, a legal assistance group that plans to assist Joslin in pursuing reinstatement to their position, said Joslin’s firing was arbitrary and “politically motivated.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“SJ got fired for exercising their First Amendment right — period,” she said. “The message it sends is be scared and be quiet.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>LGBTQ+ advocates in the Bay Area condemned Joslin’s dismissal as part of the administration’s ongoing attacks on the trans community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.pattiegonia.net/\">Pattie Gonia\u003c/a>, a drag queen and environmental activist, who was also involved in hanging the flag, defended Joslin, writing in a statement that their firing “is not just an attack on SJ, but a targeted move by the Trump administration to silence and punish anyone who practices free speech and dares to stand in defiance of the erasure of trans people.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11643341\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11643341\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS16413_GettyImages-476571408-qut.jpg\" alt=\"Some visitors to many parks, monuments and public lands were frustrated with spotty service caused by the government shutdown. The El Capitan monolith in the Yosemite National Park in California.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1378\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS16413_GettyImages-476571408-qut.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS16413_GettyImages-476571408-qut-160x115.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS16413_GettyImages-476571408-qut-800x574.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS16413_GettyImages-476571408-qut-1020x732.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS16413_GettyImages-476571408-qut-1180x847.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS16413_GettyImages-476571408-qut-960x689.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS16413_GettyImages-476571408-qut-240x172.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS16413_GettyImages-476571408-qut-375x269.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS16413_GettyImages-476571408-qut-520x373.jpg 520w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The El Capitan monolith in the Yosemite National Park in California. \u003ccite>(Mark Ralston/AFP/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Elizabeth Villano, an organizer with \u003ca href=\"https://www.resistancerangers.org/\">Resistance Rangers\u003c/a>, an unofficial group of off-duty rangers advocating for public lands, said Joslin’s firing — along with a recently-revoked Department of Interior order that asked applicants to government jobs to answer questions about how they would help \u003ca href=\"https://subscriber.politicopro.com/article/eenews/2025/07/02/opm-backs-off-pro-trump-essay-requirement-for-job-applicants-00437027\">implement \u003c/a>Trump’s agenda — is part of a concerted effort to make what should be nonpartisan work ideological.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“What the Trump administration is trying to do is to make sure that those people who are on the ground in these bipartisan jobs are only supporting his agenda,” Villano said. “It seems as though what they’re slowly trying to do is weed out the people who disagree with them.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Villano said the rules National Parks rangers must abide by while on duty are strict — they can’t so much as recommend their favorite restaurant to a visitor, for example — but those rules don’t apply when they are off-duty.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Plus, she said, Joslin’s firing also goes against Trump’s early 2025 \u003ca href=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/restoring-freedom-of-speech-and-ending-federal-censorship/\">order \u003c/a>that bars federal officials from infringing upon free speech, creating “a really disturbing pattern.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It makes you wonder what they mean when they say they want to bring back free speech,” Villano said. “To me, the harder they push back on that, the more it reminds us of how powerful it is when we speak out.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Joslin said they plan to pursue legal action to try to get their job back, and that their firing indicates that “the rules only apply to certain people.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think that my firing is a signal to other federal workers, especially NPS workers, that if you don’t comply with the ideology or the message that this current administration wants to send, then you will be eliminated,” they said. “I really care about Yosemite National Park and I want to continue caring for it in my role as a wildlife biologist.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>A \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/yosemite-national-park\">Yosemite National Park\u003c/a> ranger was fired last week after they hung a transgender pride flag from famed climbing wall El Capitan this spring.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>SJ Joslin, formerly a wildlife biologist at Yosemite, and several others lugged a 58 lb flag up the imposing wall and flew the flag on a heart-shaped feature of the rock for two hours in a celebration of their transgender identity, they said in an interview with KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Joslin was not on duty at the time and was not acting on behalf of the National Parks Service, they said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I just thought: What better of a place to hang a huge flag whose entire point is acceptance and celebration of a group of people — and really everyone?” they said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But last week, Joslin received their termination letter, which said they “failed to demonstrate acceptable conduct.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rachel Pawlitz, spokesperson for the National Park Service, would not comment on Joslin’s specific case, but confirmed NPS is “pursuing administrative action against multiple employees for failing to follow National Park Service regulations.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11947774\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11947774\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/04/RS64733_GettyImages-1244209043-qut.jpg\" alt=\"A view of El Capitan in Yosemite, a sheer rock face with a bright blue sky behind it. An orange car drives on the road in the foreground.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/04/RS64733_GettyImages-1244209043-qut.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/04/RS64733_GettyImages-1244209043-qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/04/RS64733_GettyImages-1244209043-qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/04/RS64733_GettyImages-1244209043-qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/04/RS64733_GettyImages-1244209043-qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A view of El Capitan in Yosemite National Park on Oct. 23, 2022. \u003ccite>(Tayfun Coskun/Anadolu Agency via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Pawlitz wrote in a statement that there have been multiple “unauthorized demonstrations involving El Capitan” and that “displaying signs, banners, and flags outside of designated First-Amendment areas detracts from the visitor experience and the protection of the park.” Demonstrations, she added, require a \u003ca href=\"https://www.nps.gov/yose/learn/management/upload/ep-compendium.pdf\">permit\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Yosemite has First Amendment \u003ca href=\"https://public-nps.opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/nps::yosemite-national-park-designated-first-amendment-areas-open-data/about\">zones\u003c/a>, where 25 or more people can gather in permitted demonstrations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We want to emphasize that we take the protection of the park’s resources and the experience of our visitors very seriously, and will not tolerate violations of laws and regulations that impact those resources and experiences,” Pawlitz wrote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Joslin said flying the flag was not a demonstration, but rather a celebration of identity, and criticized the parks service for taking action against them and not others who have similarly displayed flags on the prominent rock wall facing Yosemite Valley.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>In fact, the park changed its flag-flying \u003ca href=\"https://www.climbing.com/news/yosemite-bans-large-flags-on-el-cap-and-other-walls/\">policy \u003c/a>just one day after Joslin scaled the wall, banning large flags over 15 square feet in wilderness areas within the park.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Hanging flags on El Capitan goes back decades,” they said, referring to a recent “\u003ca href=\"https://www.climbing.com/news/stop-the-genocide-banner-from-el-capitan/\">Stop the Genocide” flag\u003c/a> hung in 2024 and an upside-down\u003ca href=\"https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/24/travel/upside-down-american-flag-firefall-yosemite\"> American flag\u003c/a> flown in February of this year, among many others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Yet, “we are the only group of people that have been prosecuted for hanging a flag.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Joanna Citron Day, \u003ca href=\"https://peer.org/\">general counsel\u003c/a> at Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility, a legal assistance group that plans to assist Joslin in pursuing reinstatement to their position, said Joslin’s firing was arbitrary and “politically motivated.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“SJ got fired for exercising their First Amendment right — period,” she said. “The message it sends is be scared and be quiet.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>LGBTQ+ advocates in the Bay Area condemned Joslin’s dismissal as part of the administration’s ongoing attacks on the trans community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.pattiegonia.net/\">Pattie Gonia\u003c/a>, a drag queen and environmental activist, who was also involved in hanging the flag, defended Joslin, writing in a statement that their firing “is not just an attack on SJ, but a targeted move by the Trump administration to silence and punish anyone who practices free speech and dares to stand in defiance of the erasure of trans people.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11643341\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11643341\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS16413_GettyImages-476571408-qut.jpg\" alt=\"Some visitors to many parks, monuments and public lands were frustrated with spotty service caused by the government shutdown. The El Capitan monolith in the Yosemite National Park in California.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1378\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS16413_GettyImages-476571408-qut.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS16413_GettyImages-476571408-qut-160x115.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS16413_GettyImages-476571408-qut-800x574.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS16413_GettyImages-476571408-qut-1020x732.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS16413_GettyImages-476571408-qut-1180x847.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS16413_GettyImages-476571408-qut-960x689.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS16413_GettyImages-476571408-qut-240x172.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS16413_GettyImages-476571408-qut-375x269.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/01/RS16413_GettyImages-476571408-qut-520x373.jpg 520w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The El Capitan monolith in the Yosemite National Park in California. \u003ccite>(Mark Ralston/AFP/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Elizabeth Villano, an organizer with \u003ca href=\"https://www.resistancerangers.org/\">Resistance Rangers\u003c/a>, an unofficial group of off-duty rangers advocating for public lands, said Joslin’s firing — along with a recently-revoked Department of Interior order that asked applicants to government jobs to answer questions about how they would help \u003ca href=\"https://subscriber.politicopro.com/article/eenews/2025/07/02/opm-backs-off-pro-trump-essay-requirement-for-job-applicants-00437027\">implement \u003c/a>Trump’s agenda — is part of a concerted effort to make what should be nonpartisan work ideological.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“What the Trump administration is trying to do is to make sure that those people who are on the ground in these bipartisan jobs are only supporting his agenda,” Villano said. “It seems as though what they’re slowly trying to do is weed out the people who disagree with them.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Villano said the rules National Parks rangers must abide by while on duty are strict — they can’t so much as recommend their favorite restaurant to a visitor, for example — but those rules don’t apply when they are off-duty.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Plus, she said, Joslin’s firing also goes against Trump’s early 2025 \u003ca href=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/restoring-freedom-of-speech-and-ending-federal-censorship/\">order \u003c/a>that bars federal officials from infringing upon free speech, creating “a really disturbing pattern.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It makes you wonder what they mean when they say they want to bring back free speech,” Villano said. “To me, the harder they push back on that, the more it reminds us of how powerful it is when we speak out.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Joslin said they plan to pursue legal action to try to get their job back, and that their firing indicates that “the rules only apply to certain people.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think that my firing is a signal to other federal workers, especially NPS workers, that if you don’t comply with the ideology or the message that this current administration wants to send, then you will be eliminated,” they said. “I really care about Yosemite National Park and I want to continue caring for it in my role as a wildlife biologist.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\u003cp>In recent weeks, the Bay Area’s trans community has experienced a series of painful political setbacks, following a wave of backlash across the country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On July 24, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12049555/kaiser-to-stop-gender-affirming-surgeries-for-minors-leaving-trans-kids-with-fewer-options\">Oakland-based Kaiser Permanente\u003c/a> said it would join a growing list of medical providers in the state to roll back or fully restrict gender-affirming surgical treatment for trans youth in July, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12049666/nowhere-else-to-go-sf-families-protest-kaisers-new-limits-on-gender-affirming-care\">leaving patients and families with few options\u003c/a> for care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kaiser cited a challenging “legal and regulatory environment” — a clear takeaway from the Trump administration’s January \u003ca href=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/protecting-children-from-chemical-and-surgical-mutilation/\">executive order\u003c/a> that sought to target funding and other support for hospitals that provide such care. And last month, the \u003ca href=\"https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/department-justice-subpoenas-doctors-and-clinics-involved-performing-transgender-medical\">Department of Justice subpoenaed\u003c/a> more than 20 doctors and clinics that perform gender-affirming procedures on minors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California has pushed back, with state Attorney General Rob Bonta \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12050618/california-sues-trump-administration-over-efforts-to-deny-gender-affirming-health-care\">filing a lawsuit\u003c/a> against the administration on Friday on behalf of more than a dozen other states. Bonta framed the issue as a life-and-death matter, citing the higher rates of suicide and other forms of self-harm among young people whose assigned gender at birth doesn’t match their identity. To deny these youth lifesaving care, Bonta argued, is both “cruel and irresponsible.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to Shannon Minter, legal director at the National Center for LGBTQ Rights and a longtime civil rights attorney, Trump’s order represents a broader legal threat to doctor-patient confidentiality and sets a troubling precedent for federal overreach.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Minter, who led the fight for marriage equality in California’s landmark 2009 case, spoke with KQED from his home in East Texas about the legal implications of this order — and why everyone, not just trans people, should be paying attention.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12051038\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12051038 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/08/ShannonMinter.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"640\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/08/ShannonMinter.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/08/ShannonMinter-160x128.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Shannon Minter is the legal director at the National Center for LGBTQ Rights and a civil rights attorney. Minter criticized President Donald Trump’s criminalization of health care for trans youth and said the president’s executive orders have no legal basis. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Shannon Minter)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED:\u003c/strong> Could I get your initial reaction to the news that California is suing the Trump administration over the president’s successful efforts to deny gender-affirming care to youth across the country?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minter: \u003c/strong>I’m very grateful to California for pushing back on this. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like this level of intimidation and bullying and harassment from the federal government going after medical providers. And it’s just absolutely essential that states stand up for patients and for the families who need this care and for medical privacy for all of us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED:\u003c/strong> What is the legal basis for Trump’s executive orders? Is there a precedent for this kind of top-down action?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minter:\u003c/strong> Unprecedented, and there is absolutely zero legal basis for these orders. The federal government has ordered the Department of Justice to threaten — with criminal and civil prosecution — hospitals who are simply providing medical care to these young people. The lawsuit points out that there is no basis for it.[aside postID=news_12050618 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-7_qed.jpg']This is really mafia-like behavior on the part of the federal government, just pure intimidation and coercion. There is not a single federal law that in any way prohibits, much less criminalizes, providing medical care to these young people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED:\u003c/strong> What are the chances of success for this lawsuit?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minter: \u003c/strong>Very, very high. Some of the challenges are tougher than others. This one, I think, has got an extremely high likelihood of success because there’s just no legal foundation for what the federal government is doing here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There’s literally no federal law that supports them coming after these hospitals and asking for medical records and threatening some kind of vague civil or criminal prosecution. That’s just not the way our legal system works.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The federal government, if they’re going to threaten any of us with a criminal prosecution or civil prosecution, they have to be able to point to a law that we are allegedly violating. And the problem for the federal government here, is there is no federal law that prohibits doctors or hospitals from providing this medical care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There’s just nothing to back up this use of force by the Department of Justice. That’s why I say this is really kind of like mafia-like behavior. It’s just a sheer exercise of federal coercion and abuse of federal power. And I do believe the courts will shut this down very quickly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12029440\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12029440\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/TransIdentityAP.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/TransIdentityAP.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/TransIdentityAP-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/TransIdentityAP-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/TransIdentityAP-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/TransIdentityAP-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/TransIdentityAP-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A protester is silhouetted against a trans pride flag during a pro-transgender rights protest outside of Seattle Children’s Hospital, in Seattle, on Feb. 9, 2025. \u003ccite>(Lindsey Wasson/AP Photo)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED: \u003c/strong>And a presidential executive order doesn’t count as legal precedent?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minter: \u003c/strong>No, no, the president can’t just make something up out of thin air and threaten criminal prosecution based on an executive order.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED: \u003c/strong>What legal rights to care do young people seeking gender-affirming care in California have in California?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minter:\u003c/strong> California, as well as many other states, have enacted laws that prohibit discrimination against transgender people in health care. Those laws are fully operative in California and many other states.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And that’s also one of the bases for the claims in this lawsuit: that the federal government is trying to interfere with and override state law in an area in which the federal government has no business.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nothing in our Constitution gives the federal government any authority whatsoever to regulate medical care. That’s something that is left to the states. Traditionally, in our system of government, that’s something the states do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The 10th Amendment prohibits the federal government from doing anything to interfere with areas in which states have authority. And so this lawsuit is saying, among other things, this order violates the 10th Amendment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12050962\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12050962\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/08/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-14_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/08/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-14_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/08/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-14_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/08/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-14_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Union nurses and community supporters rally outside of Kaiser Permanente, honoring transgender patients affected by Kaiser’s decision to halt gender-affirming care to minors, on July 25, 2025. \u003ccite>(Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED: \u003c/strong>Is it not ironic that the federal government is typically in favor of states’ rights when it comes to regulating issues like abortion, but then, when it comes to gender-affirming care, the federal government is now actively interfering with state laws?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minter:\u003c/strong> It is ironic. I really hope people recognize the federal government is taking advantage of the fact that many people don’t know much about transgender people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They may think, ‘Oh, this has nothing to do with me.’\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Maybe people even don’t approve of the care themselves, so they’re not paying attention to it. But this sets a terrible precedent. This is the federal government literally coming in, demanding private patient medical records from hospitals, and also purporting to tell states and hospitals how to perform health care, like what types of care they can and cannot perform.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is a federal takeover of our state health care system, getting us all used to the idea that the federal government can demand any of our private records anytime they want to for any reason they want to. That is so dangerous.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED: \u003c/strong>What’s at stake for the young people and families who are being affected by this?[aside postID=news_12049666 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-31_qed.jpg']\u003cstrong>Minter:\u003c/strong> It’s terrible for these families. Nobody knows a child better than that child’s parents. These are parents who have been through a process consulting with medical experts, coming to terms with the fact that their child has a very serious medical condition — gender dysphoria — and that their child is among the very small number of young people who really need and benefit from medical treatment for that condition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This care is so effective, and many kids who receive it are doing great. There was a really comprehensive study systematic review that was just \u003ca href=\"https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2025/05/22/utah-lawmakers-own-study-found/\">conducted by the University of Utah\u003c/a> that looked at every available study on this topic and found that the care is safe and effective, that it significantly reduces suicidality in young people. And that there are virtually no regrets — almost no one who obtains this care has any reason to wish they hadn’t.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Losing that care for these families is really devastating. You can only imagine — if you know your child is getting the care they need, and they’re doing great, and you know what will happen if they lose that care, that they’re going to be really severely harmed. Parents are in a panic, understandably.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED:\u003c/strong> What other legal action can the state or patients and their allies take?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minter: \u003c/strong>Well, the state is doing the best thing it can do, which is ask a federal court to tell the federal government to knock it off and to leave these providers alone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In terms of what families can do, a lot of families are making sure to notify these hospitals that they do not give the hospitals permission in any way, shape or form to share their private medical records. So that’s always a good thing to do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>All of us can reach out to these hospitals and express support and tell them, please do keep providing this care and please do not cooperate with these unlawful subpoenas. We don’t want hospitals to ever, ever violate their oath of confidentiality to patients. The more everyone can speak up and not be misled — don’t be distracted by the fact that this is about one particular group of people. This is really about protecting all of our medical freedom and the privacy of our medical information.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED: \u003c/strong>Do you think Bonta should sue providers for denying patients their legal care or are providers in between a rock and a hard place?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minter: \u003c/strong>I do think that providers need to comply with state law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I understand it’s frightening to be served with a subpoena by the federal government. But it’s disappointing to see providers pausing the care. I think we might have a moment of grace — maybe it was a spur-of-the-moment reaction to being served with the subpoena like that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But it’s unlawful, it’s wrong, they’re betraying their patients and they need to get back to providing this care. And if they don’t, yes — I think the attorney general can and will and should sue them if necessary. I like to think it wouldn’t come to that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Families can also sue them, and I’m pretty sure that will happen if these providers recover and get back to doing what they’re supposed to be doing, which is serve all their patients. Of course, you can’t just decide you’re gonna stop providing care to a particular group of people because the federal government is targeting that group. That is really a blatant violation of California law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>In recent weeks, the Bay Area’s trans community has experienced a series of painful political setbacks, following a wave of backlash across the country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On July 24, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12049555/kaiser-to-stop-gender-affirming-surgeries-for-minors-leaving-trans-kids-with-fewer-options\">Oakland-based Kaiser Permanente\u003c/a> said it would join a growing list of medical providers in the state to roll back or fully restrict gender-affirming surgical treatment for trans youth in July, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12049666/nowhere-else-to-go-sf-families-protest-kaisers-new-limits-on-gender-affirming-care\">leaving patients and families with few options\u003c/a> for care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kaiser cited a challenging “legal and regulatory environment” — a clear takeaway from the Trump administration’s January \u003ca href=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/protecting-children-from-chemical-and-surgical-mutilation/\">executive order\u003c/a> that sought to target funding and other support for hospitals that provide such care. And last month, the \u003ca href=\"https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/department-justice-subpoenas-doctors-and-clinics-involved-performing-transgender-medical\">Department of Justice subpoenaed\u003c/a> more than 20 doctors and clinics that perform gender-affirming procedures on minors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California has pushed back, with state Attorney General Rob Bonta \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12050618/california-sues-trump-administration-over-efforts-to-deny-gender-affirming-health-care\">filing a lawsuit\u003c/a> against the administration on Friday on behalf of more than a dozen other states. Bonta framed the issue as a life-and-death matter, citing the higher rates of suicide and other forms of self-harm among young people whose assigned gender at birth doesn’t match their identity. To deny these youth lifesaving care, Bonta argued, is both “cruel and irresponsible.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to Shannon Minter, legal director at the National Center for LGBTQ Rights and a longtime civil rights attorney, Trump’s order represents a broader legal threat to doctor-patient confidentiality and sets a troubling precedent for federal overreach.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Minter, who led the fight for marriage equality in California’s landmark 2009 case, spoke with KQED from his home in East Texas about the legal implications of this order — and why everyone, not just trans people, should be paying attention.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12051038\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12051038 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/08/ShannonMinter.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"640\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/08/ShannonMinter.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/08/ShannonMinter-160x128.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Shannon Minter is the legal director at the National Center for LGBTQ Rights and a civil rights attorney. Minter criticized President Donald Trump’s criminalization of health care for trans youth and said the president’s executive orders have no legal basis. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Shannon Minter)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED:\u003c/strong> Could I get your initial reaction to the news that California is suing the Trump administration over the president’s successful efforts to deny gender-affirming care to youth across the country?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minter: \u003c/strong>I’m very grateful to California for pushing back on this. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like this level of intimidation and bullying and harassment from the federal government going after medical providers. And it’s just absolutely essential that states stand up for patients and for the families who need this care and for medical privacy for all of us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED:\u003c/strong> What is the legal basis for Trump’s executive orders? Is there a precedent for this kind of top-down action?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minter:\u003c/strong> Unprecedented, and there is absolutely zero legal basis for these orders. The federal government has ordered the Department of Justice to threaten — with criminal and civil prosecution — hospitals who are simply providing medical care to these young people. The lawsuit points out that there is no basis for it.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>This is really mafia-like behavior on the part of the federal government, just pure intimidation and coercion. There is not a single federal law that in any way prohibits, much less criminalizes, providing medical care to these young people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED:\u003c/strong> What are the chances of success for this lawsuit?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minter: \u003c/strong>Very, very high. Some of the challenges are tougher than others. This one, I think, has got an extremely high likelihood of success because there’s just no legal foundation for what the federal government is doing here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There’s literally no federal law that supports them coming after these hospitals and asking for medical records and threatening some kind of vague civil or criminal prosecution. That’s just not the way our legal system works.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The federal government, if they’re going to threaten any of us with a criminal prosecution or civil prosecution, they have to be able to point to a law that we are allegedly violating. And the problem for the federal government here, is there is no federal law that prohibits doctors or hospitals from providing this medical care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There’s just nothing to back up this use of force by the Department of Justice. That’s why I say this is really kind of like mafia-like behavior. It’s just a sheer exercise of federal coercion and abuse of federal power. And I do believe the courts will shut this down very quickly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12029440\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12029440\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/TransIdentityAP.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/TransIdentityAP.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/TransIdentityAP-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/TransIdentityAP-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/TransIdentityAP-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/TransIdentityAP-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/TransIdentityAP-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A protester is silhouetted against a trans pride flag during a pro-transgender rights protest outside of Seattle Children’s Hospital, in Seattle, on Feb. 9, 2025. \u003ccite>(Lindsey Wasson/AP Photo)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED: \u003c/strong>And a presidential executive order doesn’t count as legal precedent?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minter: \u003c/strong>No, no, the president can’t just make something up out of thin air and threaten criminal prosecution based on an executive order.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED: \u003c/strong>What legal rights to care do young people seeking gender-affirming care in California have in California?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minter:\u003c/strong> California, as well as many other states, have enacted laws that prohibit discrimination against transgender people in health care. Those laws are fully operative in California and many other states.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And that’s also one of the bases for the claims in this lawsuit: that the federal government is trying to interfere with and override state law in an area in which the federal government has no business.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nothing in our Constitution gives the federal government any authority whatsoever to regulate medical care. That’s something that is left to the states. Traditionally, in our system of government, that’s something the states do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The 10th Amendment prohibits the federal government from doing anything to interfere with areas in which states have authority. And so this lawsuit is saying, among other things, this order violates the 10th Amendment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12050962\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12050962\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/08/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-14_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/08/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-14_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/08/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-14_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/08/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-14_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Union nurses and community supporters rally outside of Kaiser Permanente, honoring transgender patients affected by Kaiser’s decision to halt gender-affirming care to minors, on July 25, 2025. \u003ccite>(Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED: \u003c/strong>Is it not ironic that the federal government is typically in favor of states’ rights when it comes to regulating issues like abortion, but then, when it comes to gender-affirming care, the federal government is now actively interfering with state laws?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minter:\u003c/strong> It is ironic. I really hope people recognize the federal government is taking advantage of the fact that many people don’t know much about transgender people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They may think, ‘Oh, this has nothing to do with me.’\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Maybe people even don’t approve of the care themselves, so they’re not paying attention to it. But this sets a terrible precedent. This is the federal government literally coming in, demanding private patient medical records from hospitals, and also purporting to tell states and hospitals how to perform health care, like what types of care they can and cannot perform.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is a federal takeover of our state health care system, getting us all used to the idea that the federal government can demand any of our private records anytime they want to for any reason they want to. That is so dangerous.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED: \u003c/strong>What’s at stake for the young people and families who are being affected by this?\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minter:\u003c/strong> It’s terrible for these families. Nobody knows a child better than that child’s parents. These are parents who have been through a process consulting with medical experts, coming to terms with the fact that their child has a very serious medical condition — gender dysphoria — and that their child is among the very small number of young people who really need and benefit from medical treatment for that condition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This care is so effective, and many kids who receive it are doing great. There was a really comprehensive study systematic review that was just \u003ca href=\"https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2025/05/22/utah-lawmakers-own-study-found/\">conducted by the University of Utah\u003c/a> that looked at every available study on this topic and found that the care is safe and effective, that it significantly reduces suicidality in young people. And that there are virtually no regrets — almost no one who obtains this care has any reason to wish they hadn’t.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Losing that care for these families is really devastating. You can only imagine — if you know your child is getting the care they need, and they’re doing great, and you know what will happen if they lose that care, that they’re going to be really severely harmed. Parents are in a panic, understandably.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED:\u003c/strong> What other legal action can the state or patients and their allies take?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minter: \u003c/strong>Well, the state is doing the best thing it can do, which is ask a federal court to tell the federal government to knock it off and to leave these providers alone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In terms of what families can do, a lot of families are making sure to notify these hospitals that they do not give the hospitals permission in any way, shape or form to share their private medical records. So that’s always a good thing to do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>All of us can reach out to these hospitals and express support and tell them, please do keep providing this care and please do not cooperate with these unlawful subpoenas. We don’t want hospitals to ever, ever violate their oath of confidentiality to patients. The more everyone can speak up and not be misled — don’t be distracted by the fact that this is about one particular group of people. This is really about protecting all of our medical freedom and the privacy of our medical information.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>KQED: \u003c/strong>Do you think Bonta should sue providers for denying patients their legal care or are providers in between a rock and a hard place?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Minter: \u003c/strong>I do think that providers need to comply with state law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I understand it’s frightening to be served with a subpoena by the federal government. But it’s disappointing to see providers pausing the care. I think we might have a moment of grace — maybe it was a spur-of-the-moment reaction to being served with the subpoena like that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But it’s unlawful, it’s wrong, they’re betraying their patients and they need to get back to providing this care. And if they don’t, yes — I think the attorney general can and will and should sue them if necessary. I like to think it wouldn’t come to that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Families can also sue them, and I’m pretty sure that will happen if these providers recover and get back to doing what they’re supposed to be doing, which is serve all their patients. Of course, you can’t just decide you’re gonna stop providing care to a particular group of people because the federal government is targeting that group. That is really a blatant violation of California law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cem>Updated 12:31 p.m. Friday\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California is leading a coalition of more than a dozen states suing the Trump administration over its restrictions on \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12049666/nowhere-else-to-go-sf-families-protest-kaisers-new-limits-on-gender-affirming-care\">gender-affirming health care\u003c/a>, Attorney General Rob Bonta announced Friday morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bonta said President Trump and U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi’s orders and directives restricting that care to people under the age of 19 infringe upon states’ laws that protect their residents’ access to gender-affirming care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The lawsuit is joined by 15 other states and the District of Columbia.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bonta framed the issue as a life-and-death matter, citing the higher rates of suicide and other forms of self-harm among young people whose assigned gender at birth doesn’t match their identity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Trump administration’s “demands that our healthcare providers discriminate against transgender individuals and deny them access to medically-necessary healthcare is cruel and irresponsible,” Bonta said in a statement. “These actions have created a chilling effect in which providers are pressured to scale back on their care for fear of prosecution, leaving countless individuals without the critical care they need and are entitled to under law.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11959336\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11959336\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/230828-ROB-BONTA-AP-MJS-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A man wearing a navy blue suit, white shirt and blue foulard tie speaks into a microphone.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/230828-ROB-BONTA-AP-MJS-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/230828-ROB-BONTA-AP-MJS-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/230828-ROB-BONTA-AP-MJS-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/230828-ROB-BONTA-AP-MJS-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/230828-ROB-BONTA-AP-MJS-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/230828-ROB-BONTA-AP-MJS-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">California Attorney General Rob Bonta fields questions during a press conference on Monday, Aug. 28, 2023, in Los Angeles. \u003ccite>(Marcio Jose Sanchez/AP Photo)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Oakland-based Kaiser Permanente recently announced it was following \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1997491/stanford-scales-back-trans-care-for-minors-amid-federal-crackdown\">Stanford Medicine\u003c/a> and other health care providers in \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12049555/kaiser-to-stop-gender-affirming-surgeries-for-minors-leaving-trans-kids-with-fewer-options\">pausing gender-affirming surgeries\u003c/a> for patients under 19 — something Bonta warned hospitals not to do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kaiser, which serves 12 million people across eight states, cited the “significant risks” created by the current legal and regulatory environment surrounding care for transgender minors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The health care giant pointed to a \u003ca href=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/protecting-children-from-chemical-and-surgical-mutilation/\">January executive order\u003c/a> from Trump threatening funding for medical centers that provide gender-affirming care to minors. The order directs agencies to “not fund, sponsor, promote, assist, or support the so‑called ‘transition’ of a child from one sex to another.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kaiser also cited changes to insurance coverage and ongoing federal investigations. Last month, for example, the \u003ca href=\"https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/department-justice-subpoenas-doctors-and-clinics-involved-performing-transgender-medical\">Department of Justice subpoenaed\u003c/a> more than 20 doctors and clinics that perform gender-affirming procedures on minors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Equality California, a statewide LGBTQ+ rights organization, said the Trump administration was bullying hospitals and doctors into curtailing gender-affirming treatments, calling the lawsuit announced Friday “a critical step toward protecting access to lifesaving healthcare for transgender youth — and pushing back against a coordinated political assault on our community.” [aside postID=news_12049666 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-31_qed.jpg']“These attacks are not about fairness or safety — they are about fearmongering, erasure, and punishing transgender people for simply existing,” Equality California executive director Tony Hoang said in a statement. “The Trump administration’s actions are not just discriminatory — they are dangerous, and fly in the face of both medical standards and basic human decency.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While several Republican-led states have moved to restrict surgeries and other care for transgender youth, California has doubled down on \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11929233/california-becomes-first-sanctuary-state-for-transgender-youth-seeking-medical-care\">shielding such medical services\u003c/a>. State law bars hospitals from refusing to provide health care to transgender people, and Bonta has warned providers that denying or pausing care for trans youth based on political pressure could be illegal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>State Sen. Scott Wiener (D–San Francisco), who authored a 2022 law to make California a \u003ca href=\"https://sd11.senate.ca.gov/news/senator-wieners-historic-bill-provide-refuge-trans-kids-and-their-families-signed-law\">safe refuge for transgender youth\u003c/a> seeking medical care, previously told KQED that state politicians should put pressure on Bonta’s office to enforce state law on access to health care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t want the state to have to fight with Kaiser or with Stanford or with any of our great health systems, but we have to enforce the law,” he said. “California should be a safe place for trans people and LGBTQ people generally, and this is not what should be happening.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Groups including the \u003ca href=\"https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/ama-press-releases/ama-states-stop-interfering-health-care-transgender-children\">American Medical Association\u003c/a> and the \u003ca href=\"https://publications.aap.org/aapnews/news/25340/AAP-reaffirms-gender-affirming-care-policy?autologincheck=redirected\">American Pediatrics Association\u003c/a> maintain that gender-affirming care, including surgeries in some cases, can be medically necessary for both children and adults. A 2022 study by researchers at Stanford University \u003ca href=\"https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2022/01/mental-health-hormone-treatment-transgender-people.html\">found better mental health outcomes\u003c/a> for transgender people who started receiving hormone therapy as teens compared with those who waited until they were adults.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Amy Whelan, a senior staff attorney with the National Center for LGBTQ Rights, told KQED earlier that “there are very few patients under 19 who receive surgery, but for those who do, this is very essential health care.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A \u003ca href=\"https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/gender-affirming-surgeries-rarely-performed-on-transgender-youth/\">recent study\u003c/a> from researchers at Harvard University’s T.H. Chan School of Public Health found that gender-affirming surgeries were rarely performed on transgender or gender-diverse (TGS) youth in the U.S. For 15- to 17-year-olds, the rate of gender-affirming surgeries associated with a TGS-related diagnosis in 2019 was just 2 in 100,000. The rate was 0.1 in 100,000 for 13- and 14-year-olds, and the study found no such surgeries on trans children under 12.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Still, some medical experts have \u003ca href=\"https://bmjgroup.com/gender-dysphoria-is-rising-and-so-is-professional-disagreement/\">urged greater caution\u003c/a>, calling for more scrutiny of the evidence underpinning these gender-affirming treatments. Critics have also questioned the strength of long-term data and raised concerns about the potential irreversibility of certain medical interventions — concerns echoed in a recent \u003ca href=\"https://opa.hhs.gov/gender-dysphoria-report\">report on gender dysphoria\u003c/a> commissioned by the Trump administration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>Updated 12:31 p.m. Friday\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California is leading a coalition of more than a dozen states suing the Trump administration over its restrictions on \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12049666/nowhere-else-to-go-sf-families-protest-kaisers-new-limits-on-gender-affirming-care\">gender-affirming health care\u003c/a>, Attorney General Rob Bonta announced Friday morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bonta said President Trump and U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi’s orders and directives restricting that care to people under the age of 19 infringe upon states’ laws that protect their residents’ access to gender-affirming care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The lawsuit is joined by 15 other states and the District of Columbia.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bonta framed the issue as a life-and-death matter, citing the higher rates of suicide and other forms of self-harm among young people whose assigned gender at birth doesn’t match their identity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Trump administration’s “demands that our healthcare providers discriminate against transgender individuals and deny them access to medically-necessary healthcare is cruel and irresponsible,” Bonta said in a statement. “These actions have created a chilling effect in which providers are pressured to scale back on their care for fear of prosecution, leaving countless individuals without the critical care they need and are entitled to under law.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11959336\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11959336\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/230828-ROB-BONTA-AP-MJS-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A man wearing a navy blue suit, white shirt and blue foulard tie speaks into a microphone.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/230828-ROB-BONTA-AP-MJS-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/230828-ROB-BONTA-AP-MJS-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/230828-ROB-BONTA-AP-MJS-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/230828-ROB-BONTA-AP-MJS-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/230828-ROB-BONTA-AP-MJS-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/230828-ROB-BONTA-AP-MJS-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">California Attorney General Rob Bonta fields questions during a press conference on Monday, Aug. 28, 2023, in Los Angeles. \u003ccite>(Marcio Jose Sanchez/AP Photo)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Oakland-based Kaiser Permanente recently announced it was following \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1997491/stanford-scales-back-trans-care-for-minors-amid-federal-crackdown\">Stanford Medicine\u003c/a> and other health care providers in \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12049555/kaiser-to-stop-gender-affirming-surgeries-for-minors-leaving-trans-kids-with-fewer-options\">pausing gender-affirming surgeries\u003c/a> for patients under 19 — something Bonta warned hospitals not to do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kaiser, which serves 12 million people across eight states, cited the “significant risks” created by the current legal and regulatory environment surrounding care for transgender minors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The health care giant pointed to a \u003ca href=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/protecting-children-from-chemical-and-surgical-mutilation/\">January executive order\u003c/a> from Trump threatening funding for medical centers that provide gender-affirming care to minors. The order directs agencies to “not fund, sponsor, promote, assist, or support the so‑called ‘transition’ of a child from one sex to another.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kaiser also cited changes to insurance coverage and ongoing federal investigations. Last month, for example, the \u003ca href=\"https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/department-justice-subpoenas-doctors-and-clinics-involved-performing-transgender-medical\">Department of Justice subpoenaed\u003c/a> more than 20 doctors and clinics that perform gender-affirming procedures on minors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Equality California, a statewide LGBTQ+ rights organization, said the Trump administration was bullying hospitals and doctors into curtailing gender-affirming treatments, calling the lawsuit announced Friday “a critical step toward protecting access to lifesaving healthcare for transgender youth — and pushing back against a coordinated political assault on our community.” \u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“These attacks are not about fairness or safety — they are about fearmongering, erasure, and punishing transgender people for simply existing,” Equality California executive director Tony Hoang said in a statement. “The Trump administration’s actions are not just discriminatory — they are dangerous, and fly in the face of both medical standards and basic human decency.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While several Republican-led states have moved to restrict surgeries and other care for transgender youth, California has doubled down on \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11929233/california-becomes-first-sanctuary-state-for-transgender-youth-seeking-medical-care\">shielding such medical services\u003c/a>. State law bars hospitals from refusing to provide health care to transgender people, and Bonta has warned providers that denying or pausing care for trans youth based on political pressure could be illegal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>State Sen. Scott Wiener (D–San Francisco), who authored a 2022 law to make California a \u003ca href=\"https://sd11.senate.ca.gov/news/senator-wieners-historic-bill-provide-refuge-trans-kids-and-their-families-signed-law\">safe refuge for transgender youth\u003c/a> seeking medical care, previously told KQED that state politicians should put pressure on Bonta’s office to enforce state law on access to health care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t want the state to have to fight with Kaiser or with Stanford or with any of our great health systems, but we have to enforce the law,” he said. “California should be a safe place for trans people and LGBTQ people generally, and this is not what should be happening.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Groups including the \u003ca href=\"https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/ama-press-releases/ama-states-stop-interfering-health-care-transgender-children\">American Medical Association\u003c/a> and the \u003ca href=\"https://publications.aap.org/aapnews/news/25340/AAP-reaffirms-gender-affirming-care-policy?autologincheck=redirected\">American Pediatrics Association\u003c/a> maintain that gender-affirming care, including surgeries in some cases, can be medically necessary for both children and adults. A 2022 study by researchers at Stanford University \u003ca href=\"https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2022/01/mental-health-hormone-treatment-transgender-people.html\">found better mental health outcomes\u003c/a> for transgender people who started receiving hormone therapy as teens compared with those who waited until they were adults.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Amy Whelan, a senior staff attorney with the National Center for LGBTQ Rights, told KQED earlier that “there are very few patients under 19 who receive surgery, but for those who do, this is very essential health care.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A \u003ca href=\"https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/gender-affirming-surgeries-rarely-performed-on-transgender-youth/\">recent study\u003c/a> from researchers at Harvard University’s T.H. Chan School of Public Health found that gender-affirming surgeries were rarely performed on transgender or gender-diverse (TGS) youth in the U.S. For 15- to 17-year-olds, the rate of gender-affirming surgeries associated with a TGS-related diagnosis in 2019 was just 2 in 100,000. The rate was 0.1 in 100,000 for 13- and 14-year-olds, and the study found no such surgeries on trans children under 12.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Still, some medical experts have \u003ca href=\"https://bmjgroup.com/gender-dysphoria-is-rising-and-so-is-professional-disagreement/\">urged greater caution\u003c/a>, calling for more scrutiny of the evidence underpinning these gender-affirming treatments. Critics have also questioned the strength of long-term data and raised concerns about the potential irreversibility of certain medical interventions — concerns echoed in a recent \u003ca href=\"https://opa.hhs.gov/gender-dysphoria-report\">report on gender dysphoria\u003c/a> commissioned by the Trump administration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "‘Nowhere Else to Go': SF Families Protest Kaiser’s New Limits on Gender-Affirming Care",
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"content": "\u003cp>Dozens of caregivers, nurses and allies rallied at Kaiser Permanente’s San Francisco Medical Center on Friday afternoon to mourn the loss of what they say is critical and life-affirming care for trans and gender-diverse youth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Days earlier, the California health care giant said it was \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12049555/kaiser-to-stop-gender-affirming-surgeries-for-minors-leaving-trans-kids-with-fewer-options\">pausing surgical treatment for gender dysphoria\u003c/a> for patients who are younger than 19, under mounting political pressure from the Trump administration. All other gender-affirming care, including non-surgical treatment for minors and surgeries for patients 19 and older, will continue, a Kaiser spokesperson said in a statement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The move sent shockwaves through the Bay Area’s LGBTQ+ community, many of whom turned to Kaiser for gender-affirming care when there was nowhere else to go.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sydney Simpson, a registered Kaiser nurse and member of the California Nurses Association, said they came to the Golden State from Alabama because of the services their employer formerly provided.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’ve heard questions like, ‘Well, where can we go instead?’ And the answer is, I don’t know. And I don’t know that there will be an answer any time soon,” Simpson said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12049935\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-7_qed.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-7_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12049935\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-7_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-7_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-7_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Union nurses and community supporters rally outside of Kaiser Permanente, honoring transgender patients affected by Kaiser’s decision to halt gender-affirming care to minors, on July 25, 2025. \u003ccite>(Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“There is nowhere else to go past San Francisco, past Northern California.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The crowd, largely made up of Kaiser patients and their supporters, waved transgender pride flags, and carried signs saying, “Transgender rights are human rights.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jason Reiger is the parent of a transgender child who says the care they received at Kaiser helped save their life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“My kid got the help they needed which they would not get today. But there are other kids who still need it because of Kaiser’s decision today and it is a dereliction of their medical, ethical, professional duties,” Reiger told KQED.[aside postID=news_12049555 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/10/231004-KAISER-STRIKE-MD-10-KQED-1020x680.jpg']Oakland-based Kaiser Permanente, which serves more than 12 million people across eight states, called the decision to pause treatment a “difficult” one, citing “the significant risks being created for health systems, clinicians, and patients” in the evolving legal and regulatory environment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Trump administration has aggressively targeted gender-related health care for trans youth, beginning with a series of executive orders instructing federal agencies to restrict access to care and funding. Most recently, the U.S. Department of Justice issued more than 20 subpoenas to \u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jul/09/gender-affirming-care-minors\">doctors and clinics\u003c/a> providing gender-affirming care to minors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While other states have passed laws limiting such care, California has doubled down on \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11929233/california-becomes-first-sanctuary-state-for-transgender-youth-seeking-medical-care\">protecting medical services for youth\u003c/a>. And in February, California Attorney General Rob Bonta \u003ca href=\"https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bonta-reminds-hospitals-and-clinics-anti-discrimination-laws#:~:text=Electing%20to%20refuse%20services%20to,are%20protected%20under%20state%20laws.&text=California%20has%20a%20number%20of,Health%20Care%27s%20TGI%20Care%20webpage\">warned hospitals\u003c/a> that denying or pausing care for trans youth based on political pressure could violate state law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I understand that the President’s executive order on gender affirming care has created some confusion,” Bonta said in a statement. “Let me be clear: California law has not changed, and hospitals and clinics have a legal obligation to provide equal access to healthcare services.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Kaiser is not the only health care provider in the state to have caved to Trump’s pressure in recent weeks. Palo Alto-based Stanford Medicine scaled back \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1997491/stanford-scales-back-trans-care-for-minors-amid-federal-crackdown\">gender-related surgical procedures\u003c/a> for minors last month. And this week, Children’s Hospital Los Angeles closed its \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12049310/childrens-hospital-los-angeles-ends-transgender-care\">Center for Transyouth Health and Development\u003c/a>, which had been a leader in gender-affirming care for the last 30 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Democratic State Sen. Scott Wiener of San Francisco, who authored a \u003ca href=\"https://sd11.senate.ca.gov/news/senator-wieners-historic-bill-provide-refuge-trans-kids-and-their-families-signed-law\">2022 law to make California a safe refuge\u003c/a> for transgender youth seeking medical care, also attended the protest and called Kaiser’s decision illegal under state law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12049936\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-26_qed.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-26_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12049936\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-26_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-26_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-26_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A counter protester, center, confronts a protester during a rally and vigil honoring transgender patients affected by Kaiser’s decision to halt gender-affirming care to minors, outside of Kaiser Permanente on July 25, 2025. \u003ccite>(Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In a past interview, he acknowledged the challenges facing companies caught in between the needs of patients and the Trump administration’s pressure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s important for us not to just cave in to Donald Trump’s bullying. It’s hard and it’s scary, but this is how fascists succeed, when institutions start backing down and caving in and doing whatever the regime wants,” Wiener said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A small group of counter-protesters stood mostly on the outskirts of the crowd, holding signs reading “No child can consent to be sterilized” and “No more profiting off of confused children.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At certain points during the rally, counter-protesters interjected to shout down rally speakers, yelling, “Stop sterilizing children.” Tensions briefly escalated between the two sides when counter-protesters tried to move closer to the center of the rally, and advocates quickly moved to block them with their bodies. A brief shoving match ensued, and then quickly fizzled out.[aside postID=arts_13977595 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/06/2025.04.14_Middleton_SandyStone_15_qed.jpg']Medical interventions for transgender children and youth, which may include puberty blockers, hormones and, in rare cases, surgery, has become a lightning rod issue nationally and globally. Some parents, like Reiger, say that surgical medical care was lifesaving for their child.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/ama-press-releases/ama-states-stop-interfering-health-care-transgender-children\">American Medical Association\u003c/a> and the \u003ca href=\"https://publications.aap.org/aapnews/news/25340/AAP-reaffirms-gender-affirming-care-policy?autologincheck=redirected\">American Pediatrics Association\u003c/a> maintain that gender-affirming care, including surgeries in some cases, can be medically necessary for both children and adults. A 2022 study by researchers at Stanford University \u003ca href=\"https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2022/01/mental-health-hormone-treatment-transgender-people.html\">found better mental health outcomes\u003c/a> for transgender people who started receiving hormone therapy as teens compared with those who waited until they were adults.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, some medical experts have \u003ca href=\"https://bmjgroup.com/gender-dysphoria-is-rising-and-so-is-professional-disagreement/\">urged caution\u003c/a>, calling for greater scrutiny of evidence underpinning these treatments and raising concerns about the potential irreversibility of certain interventions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Amid this professional debate, frontline providers like Simpson continue to find ways to support families grappling with these life-changing decisions in real time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think our options just sort of dwindle and dwindle,” Simpson said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I just hugged a parent and said, ‘We’ll figure this out.’ We’re gonna have to get very creative, but we’ll figure this out because again, for a lot of these kids, the option is death. And people don’t wanna talk about that, but it’s the truth.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Dozens of caregivers, nurses and allies rallied at Kaiser Permanente’s San Francisco Medical Center on Friday afternoon to mourn the loss of what they say is critical and life-affirming care for trans and gender-diverse youth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Days earlier, the California health care giant said it was \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12049555/kaiser-to-stop-gender-affirming-surgeries-for-minors-leaving-trans-kids-with-fewer-options\">pausing surgical treatment for gender dysphoria\u003c/a> for patients who are younger than 19, under mounting political pressure from the Trump administration. All other gender-affirming care, including non-surgical treatment for minors and surgeries for patients 19 and older, will continue, a Kaiser spokesperson said in a statement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The move sent shockwaves through the Bay Area’s LGBTQ+ community, many of whom turned to Kaiser for gender-affirming care when there was nowhere else to go.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sydney Simpson, a registered Kaiser nurse and member of the California Nurses Association, said they came to the Golden State from Alabama because of the services their employer formerly provided.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’ve heard questions like, ‘Well, where can we go instead?’ And the answer is, I don’t know. And I don’t know that there will be an answer any time soon,” Simpson said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12049935\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-7_qed.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-7_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12049935\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-7_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-7_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-7_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Union nurses and community supporters rally outside of Kaiser Permanente, honoring transgender patients affected by Kaiser’s decision to halt gender-affirming care to minors, on July 25, 2025. \u003ccite>(Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“There is nowhere else to go past San Francisco, past Northern California.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The crowd, largely made up of Kaiser patients and their supporters, waved transgender pride flags, and carried signs saying, “Transgender rights are human rights.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jason Reiger is the parent of a transgender child who says the care they received at Kaiser helped save their life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“My kid got the help they needed which they would not get today. But there are other kids who still need it because of Kaiser’s decision today and it is a dereliction of their medical, ethical, professional duties,” Reiger told KQED.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Oakland-based Kaiser Permanente, which serves more than 12 million people across eight states, called the decision to pause treatment a “difficult” one, citing “the significant risks being created for health systems, clinicians, and patients” in the evolving legal and regulatory environment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Trump administration has aggressively targeted gender-related health care for trans youth, beginning with a series of executive orders instructing federal agencies to restrict access to care and funding. Most recently, the U.S. Department of Justice issued more than 20 subpoenas to \u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jul/09/gender-affirming-care-minors\">doctors and clinics\u003c/a> providing gender-affirming care to minors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While other states have passed laws limiting such care, California has doubled down on \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11929233/california-becomes-first-sanctuary-state-for-transgender-youth-seeking-medical-care\">protecting medical services for youth\u003c/a>. And in February, California Attorney General Rob Bonta \u003ca href=\"https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bonta-reminds-hospitals-and-clinics-anti-discrimination-laws#:~:text=Electing%20to%20refuse%20services%20to,are%20protected%20under%20state%20laws.&text=California%20has%20a%20number%20of,Health%20Care%27s%20TGI%20Care%20webpage\">warned hospitals\u003c/a> that denying or pausing care for trans youth based on political pressure could violate state law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I understand that the President’s executive order on gender affirming care has created some confusion,” Bonta said in a statement. “Let me be clear: California law has not changed, and hospitals and clinics have a legal obligation to provide equal access to healthcare services.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Kaiser is not the only health care provider in the state to have caved to Trump’s pressure in recent weeks. Palo Alto-based Stanford Medicine scaled back \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1997491/stanford-scales-back-trans-care-for-minors-amid-federal-crackdown\">gender-related surgical procedures\u003c/a> for minors last month. And this week, Children’s Hospital Los Angeles closed its \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12049310/childrens-hospital-los-angeles-ends-transgender-care\">Center for Transyouth Health and Development\u003c/a>, which had been a leader in gender-affirming care for the last 30 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Democratic State Sen. Scott Wiener of San Francisco, who authored a \u003ca href=\"https://sd11.senate.ca.gov/news/senator-wieners-historic-bill-provide-refuge-trans-kids-and-their-families-signed-law\">2022 law to make California a safe refuge\u003c/a> for transgender youth seeking medical care, also attended the protest and called Kaiser’s decision illegal under state law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12049936\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-26_qed.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-26_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12049936\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-26_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-26_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/20250725_KaiserTransProtest_GC-26_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A counter protester, center, confronts a protester during a rally and vigil honoring transgender patients affected by Kaiser’s decision to halt gender-affirming care to minors, outside of Kaiser Permanente on July 25, 2025. \u003ccite>(Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In a past interview, he acknowledged the challenges facing companies caught in between the needs of patients and the Trump administration’s pressure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s important for us not to just cave in to Donald Trump’s bullying. It’s hard and it’s scary, but this is how fascists succeed, when institutions start backing down and caving in and doing whatever the regime wants,” Wiener said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A small group of counter-protesters stood mostly on the outskirts of the crowd, holding signs reading “No child can consent to be sterilized” and “No more profiting off of confused children.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At certain points during the rally, counter-protesters interjected to shout down rally speakers, yelling, “Stop sterilizing children.” Tensions briefly escalated between the two sides when counter-protesters tried to move closer to the center of the rally, and advocates quickly moved to block them with their bodies. A brief shoving match ensued, and then quickly fizzled out.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Medical interventions for transgender children and youth, which may include puberty blockers, hormones and, in rare cases, surgery, has become a lightning rod issue nationally and globally. Some parents, like Reiger, say that surgical medical care was lifesaving for their child.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/ama-press-releases/ama-states-stop-interfering-health-care-transgender-children\">American Medical Association\u003c/a> and the \u003ca href=\"https://publications.aap.org/aapnews/news/25340/AAP-reaffirms-gender-affirming-care-policy?autologincheck=redirected\">American Pediatrics Association\u003c/a> maintain that gender-affirming care, including surgeries in some cases, can be medically necessary for both children and adults. A 2022 study by researchers at Stanford University \u003ca href=\"https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2022/01/mental-health-hormone-treatment-transgender-people.html\">found better mental health outcomes\u003c/a> for transgender people who started receiving hormone therapy as teens compared with those who waited until they were adults.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, some medical experts have \u003ca href=\"https://bmjgroup.com/gender-dysphoria-is-rising-and-so-is-professional-disagreement/\">urged caution\u003c/a>, calling for greater scrutiny of evidence underpinning these treatments and raising concerns about the potential irreversibility of certain interventions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Amid this professional debate, frontline providers like Simpson continue to find ways to support families grappling with these life-changing decisions in real time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think our options just sort of dwindle and dwindle,” Simpson said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I just hugged a parent and said, ‘We’ll figure this out.’ We’re gonna have to get very creative, but we’ll figure this out because again, for a lot of these kids, the option is death. And people don’t wanna talk about that, but it’s the truth.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>Calder Storm doesn’t know where to turn for gender-affirming care for his 16-year-old daughter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After Palo Alto-based Stanford Medicine \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1997491/stanford-scales-back-trans-care-for-minors-amid-federal-crackdown\">stopped offering gender-related surgical procedures\u003c/a> for minors last month, he planned to enroll her as a\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/kaiser-permanente\"> patient at Kaiser Permanente \u003c/a>— widely regarded as a bastion of trans health care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But on Wednesday, the health care giant announced that it would follow suit, pausing gender-affirming surgeries for patients under 19.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Kaiser was supposed to be our safe haven,” Storm told KQED on Wednesday. “Everyone in the trans community thought we had the best chance possible within the Kaiser system. And furthermore, we thought we had the best chance in the Northern California Kaiser system.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Oakland-based Kaiser Permanente, which serves more than 12 million people across eight states, said Wednesday it would stop offering surgical gender-affirming treatments for trans minors next month, citing “significant risks” created by the current legal and regulatory environment surrounding care for transgender children.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Since January, there has been significant focus by the federal government on gender-affirming care, specifically for patients under the age of 19,” the health care provider said in a statement, citing a \u003ca href=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/protecting-children-from-chemical-and-surgical-mutilation/\">January executive order\u003c/a> from President Donald Trump threatening funding for medical centers that provide such care, changes to insurance coverage and ongoing federal investigations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12023855\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12023855\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/0M6A0870_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/0M6A0870_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/0M6A0870_qed-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/0M6A0870_qed-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/0M6A0870_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/0M6A0870_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/0M6A0870_qed-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A demonstrator proudly waves a transgender pride flag during Pride Month in San Francisco, California, on June 28, 2019. \u003ccite>(Sruti Mamidanna/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Earlier this month, the\u003ca href=\"https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/department-justice-subpoenas-doctors-and-clinics-involved-performing-transgender-medical\"> Department of Justice subpoenaed\u003c/a> more than 20 doctors and clinics that perform gender-affirming procedures on minors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We recognize that this is an extremely challenging and stressful time for our patients seeking care, as well as for our clinicians whose mission is to care for them,” the statement continued.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kaiser joins a growing list of health care providers moving to limit care for trans youth under building pressure from the Trump administration. In June, Stanford’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1997491/stanford-scales-back-trans-care-for-minors-amid-federal-crackdown\">pause of gender-affirming surgeries\u003c/a> included prescribing puberty blockers to youth, Storm said. And just this week, Los Angeles Children’s Hospital closed its \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12049310/childrens-hospital-los-angeles-ends-transgender-care\">Center for Transyouth Health and Development\u003c/a>, which has been a leader in gender-affirming care for the last 30 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Storm thought Kaiser would be different, since the closed health care system doesn’t rely on federal research funding like Stanford, L.A. Children’s and many others do. And just months ago, California Attorney General Rob Bonta \u003ca href=\"https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bonta-reminds-hospitals-and-clinics-anti-discrimination-laws\">preemptively warned the state’s health care providers\u003c/a> that capitulating to political pressure and pausing gender-affirming care would violate state law.[aside postID=news_12049310 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/07/trans-health-6880e51cc03ba.jpg']But Lady Rainsard, a registered nurse in plastic surgery at Kaiser’s San Francisco campus, said that’s exactly what the health care system is doing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Medical providers, not politicians, know what’s best for our patients,” she said in a statement from California Nurses Association, a union representing 25,000 Kaiser nurses. “Right now, we deem it a much greater risk to cave to this kind of government overreach than it is to provide this care to our patients, no matter their age.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kaiser medical centers will continue to offer non-surgical care for minors and all gender-affirming care for trans adults.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to State Sen. Scott Wiener, D-San Francisco, refusing to offer these procedures for young people is a step towards Trump’s goal to eliminate all trans health care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s important for us not to just cave in to Donald Trump’s bullying,” he told KQED on Wednesday. “It’s hard and it’s scary, but this is how fascists succeed — when institutions start backing down.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wiener said the next step for the state’s politicians will be to put pressure on Bonta’s office to enforce California law, which bars hospitals from refusing to provide health care to trans people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12043149\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12043149\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/06/HarveyMilkFolo2.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1500\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/06/HarveyMilkFolo2.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/06/HarveyMilkFolo2-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/06/HarveyMilkFolo2-1536x1152.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sen. Scott Wiener speaks at a press conference at Jane Warner Plaza in San Francisco on June 6, 2025. \u003ccite>(Samantha Kennedy/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“I don’t want the state to have to fight with Kaiser or with Stanford or with any of our great health systems, but we have to enforce the law,” he said. “California should be a safe place for trans people and LGBTQ people generally, and this is not what should be happening.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Amy Whelan, a senior staff attorney with the National Center for LGBTQ Rights, said the organization is in close contact with families of patients affected by the Stanford and Los Angeles Children’s Hospital policy changes and working on the issue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There are very few patients under 19 who receive surgery, but for those who do, this is very essential health care,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A \u003ca href=\"https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/gender-affirming-surgeries-rarely-performed-on-transgender-youth/\">recent study\u003c/a> from researchers at Harvard’s T.H. Chan School of Public Health found little to no utilization of gender-affirming surgeries by transgender and gender diverse minors in the U.S., with a rate of two in 100,000 15- to 17-year-olds undergoing gender-affirming breast reduction surgeries in 2019. The study found that 0.1 in 100,000 13- and 14-year-olds received the procedure, and no trans children under 12 did.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cisgender minors, on the other hand, received surgical gender-affirming care at “substantially” higher rates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Advocates plan to rally outside Kaiser’s Medical Center at 2425 Geary Blvd. on Friday at 4 p.m.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>KQED’s \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/nnavarro\">\u003cem>Natalia Navarro\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem> contributed to this report.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Calder Storm doesn’t know where to turn for gender-affirming care for his 16-year-old daughter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After Palo Alto-based Stanford Medicine \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1997491/stanford-scales-back-trans-care-for-minors-amid-federal-crackdown\">stopped offering gender-related surgical procedures\u003c/a> for minors last month, he planned to enroll her as a\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/kaiser-permanente\"> patient at Kaiser Permanente \u003c/a>— widely regarded as a bastion of trans health care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But on Wednesday, the health care giant announced that it would follow suit, pausing gender-affirming surgeries for patients under 19.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Kaiser was supposed to be our safe haven,” Storm told KQED on Wednesday. “Everyone in the trans community thought we had the best chance possible within the Kaiser system. And furthermore, we thought we had the best chance in the Northern California Kaiser system.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Oakland-based Kaiser Permanente, which serves more than 12 million people across eight states, said Wednesday it would stop offering surgical gender-affirming treatments for trans minors next month, citing “significant risks” created by the current legal and regulatory environment surrounding care for transgender children.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Since January, there has been significant focus by the federal government on gender-affirming care, specifically for patients under the age of 19,” the health care provider said in a statement, citing a \u003ca href=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/protecting-children-from-chemical-and-surgical-mutilation/\">January executive order\u003c/a> from President Donald Trump threatening funding for medical centers that provide such care, changes to insurance coverage and ongoing federal investigations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12023855\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12023855\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/0M6A0870_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/0M6A0870_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/0M6A0870_qed-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/0M6A0870_qed-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/0M6A0870_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/0M6A0870_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/0M6A0870_qed-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A demonstrator proudly waves a transgender pride flag during Pride Month in San Francisco, California, on June 28, 2019. \u003ccite>(Sruti Mamidanna/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Earlier this month, the\u003ca href=\"https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/department-justice-subpoenas-doctors-and-clinics-involved-performing-transgender-medical\"> Department of Justice subpoenaed\u003c/a> more than 20 doctors and clinics that perform gender-affirming procedures on minors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We recognize that this is an extremely challenging and stressful time for our patients seeking care, as well as for our clinicians whose mission is to care for them,” the statement continued.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kaiser joins a growing list of health care providers moving to limit care for trans youth under building pressure from the Trump administration. In June, Stanford’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1997491/stanford-scales-back-trans-care-for-minors-amid-federal-crackdown\">pause of gender-affirming surgeries\u003c/a> included prescribing puberty blockers to youth, Storm said. And just this week, Los Angeles Children’s Hospital closed its \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12049310/childrens-hospital-los-angeles-ends-transgender-care\">Center for Transyouth Health and Development\u003c/a>, which has been a leader in gender-affirming care for the last 30 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Storm thought Kaiser would be different, since the closed health care system doesn’t rely on federal research funding like Stanford, L.A. Children’s and many others do. And just months ago, California Attorney General Rob Bonta \u003ca href=\"https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bonta-reminds-hospitals-and-clinics-anti-discrimination-laws\">preemptively warned the state’s health care providers\u003c/a> that capitulating to political pressure and pausing gender-affirming care would violate state law.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>But Lady Rainsard, a registered nurse in plastic surgery at Kaiser’s San Francisco campus, said that’s exactly what the health care system is doing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Medical providers, not politicians, know what’s best for our patients,” she said in a statement from California Nurses Association, a union representing 25,000 Kaiser nurses. “Right now, we deem it a much greater risk to cave to this kind of government overreach than it is to provide this care to our patients, no matter their age.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kaiser medical centers will continue to offer non-surgical care for minors and all gender-affirming care for trans adults.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to State Sen. Scott Wiener, D-San Francisco, refusing to offer these procedures for young people is a step towards Trump’s goal to eliminate all trans health care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s important for us not to just cave in to Donald Trump’s bullying,” he told KQED on Wednesday. “It’s hard and it’s scary, but this is how fascists succeed — when institutions start backing down.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wiener said the next step for the state’s politicians will be to put pressure on Bonta’s office to enforce California law, which bars hospitals from refusing to provide health care to trans people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12043149\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12043149\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/06/HarveyMilkFolo2.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1500\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/06/HarveyMilkFolo2.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/06/HarveyMilkFolo2-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/06/HarveyMilkFolo2-1536x1152.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sen. Scott Wiener speaks at a press conference at Jane Warner Plaza in San Francisco on June 6, 2025. \u003ccite>(Samantha Kennedy/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“I don’t want the state to have to fight with Kaiser or with Stanford or with any of our great health systems, but we have to enforce the law,” he said. “California should be a safe place for trans people and LGBTQ people generally, and this is not what should be happening.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Amy Whelan, a senior staff attorney with the National Center for LGBTQ Rights, said the organization is in close contact with families of patients affected by the Stanford and Los Angeles Children’s Hospital policy changes and working on the issue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There are very few patients under 19 who receive surgery, but for those who do, this is very essential health care,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A \u003ca href=\"https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/gender-affirming-surgeries-rarely-performed-on-transgender-youth/\">recent study\u003c/a> from researchers at Harvard’s T.H. Chan School of Public Health found little to no utilization of gender-affirming surgeries by transgender and gender diverse minors in the U.S., with a rate of two in 100,000 15- to 17-year-olds undergoing gender-affirming breast reduction surgeries in 2019. The study found that 0.1 in 100,000 13- and 14-year-olds received the procedure, and no trans children under 12 did.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cisgender minors, on the other hand, received surgical gender-affirming care at “substantially” higher rates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Advocates plan to rally outside Kaiser’s Medical Center at 2425 Geary Blvd. on Friday at 4 p.m.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>KQED’s \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/nnavarro\">\u003cem>Natalia Navarro\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem> contributed to this report.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"info": "Chris Thile steps to the mic as the host of Live from Here (formerly A Prairie Home Companion), a live public radio variety show. Download Chris’s Song of the Week plus other highlights from the broadcast. Produced by American Public Media.",
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"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
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"soldout": {
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"title": "SOLD OUT: Rethinking Housing in America",
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"title": "TED Radio Hour",
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