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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the Arms Down program at the San Quentin Rehabilitation Center, formerly San Quentin State Prison, “firearm addiction” is treated like an alcohol addiction. Its founders, all of whom are currently incarcerated men, say that talking about why perpetrators of gun violence carry guns in the first place is their contribution to gun violence prevention from behind bars. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Links:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/aug/21/california-san-quentin-gun-violence\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The revolutionary prison program where men help each other put down their guns: ‘Don’t end up like me’\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ci>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/i>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC3425351890&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:01:47] So, in covering gun violence, people will ask me and ask police, ask officials, why are shootings happening? Why are homicides either up or down?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:00] Abené Clayton is a reporter with the Guardian’s Guns and Lies in America project.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:02:06] And in my mind, I would always think like, well, you’re not gonna have a real answer unless you ask the person who did it. When we talk about crime dynamics, there’s so much analysis and research and commentary that goes into it, but a major sort of missing piece in all of this is talking directly to someone who either did the specific thing or has done something similar, and we don’t do that very often, if at all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:44] You reported on a sort of unique program that turns this on its head in a way because this sort of idea of gun violence prevention is actually happening inside of a prison. Tell us about Arms Down out of San Quentin Rehabilitation Center, formerly known as San Quentin State Prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:03:08] So Arms Down is a mutual help group for firearm offenders styled after these sort of self-help rehabilitative programs that exist in prisons. Right now, they have about 120 guys who, one half of them meet on Tuesdays, another half meets on Fridays. And during those sessions, they sit in groups of like eight to 10, 12 guys pretty much share the experiences that led them to prison and to the Arms Down circles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Automated Voice \u003c/strong>[00:03:43] To accept this call, say or dial 5 now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:03:48] It was founded by an incarcerated man named Jemaine Hunter, who is in prison for a 34 years to life sentence. He’s been inside for the last two decades or so.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:04:02] Hi, my name is Jermaine Hunter. I am the founder of Arms Down, a group that’s mutual help for gun offenders.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:04:16] What is his story?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:04:18] Jemaine is from Fresno. He was born and raised there in the 80s and 90s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:04:24] Fresno, California is like one of them cities back in the, especially back in the eighties, it was like, slow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:04:33] Kind of at the height of the crack, super predator epidemic that we look back on today as a reference point for so many things, whether it’s like tough on crime tactics, what we know today as like community violence, all sorts of things.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:04:50] I was pretty much ambitious with the streets, getting out, trying to be my own man, you know, as a kid, wanting to get out and have things that I wasn’t provided in the household.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:05:09] He told me that his first interaction with gun violence was actually a shooting that happened in his home between his grandparents when he was four or five. I think that kind of sets the stage in his mind for what guns were used for.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:05:26] I was out there standing in the street selling drugs, doing whatever it was that us as hustlers and people that’s prone to the street life do. And the firearm was just an essential tool to carry on with that lifestyle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:05:49] And I think this mindset, he carried it with him, right? Until his offense at age 24, that ended in him being convicted of attempted murder and sentenced to 34 years to life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:04] When Jermaine was in prison, he sort of realized that he wanted to start this program Arms Down. Why did he want to start his program? What did he feel like was missing that he really wanted to fill?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:06:22] He had been in a couple other facilities before getting to San Quentin. And all during that time, he was doing the self-help programs, you know what I’m saying, really trying to heal, you know, victims awareness, things, all of this stuff that people will recommend you become a part of if you are incarcerated. But he told me that there was no group that specifically addressed firearms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:06:49] Just talking to other people on the yard or in prison, you know, after doing seven, eight years or whatever their crimes, a lot of them still thought about having a firearm after doing all this time. So I definitely understood that it was a need for this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:07:07] In some of the places he was, firearms were seen as like a footnote, right? It was like, oh, you had all of these other things. You just happen to use a gun. But for him and so many other people in who are incarcerated, guns were like a central part of their lives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:07:23] All the classes was basically saying that we were having guns just to kill. I had a gun every day of my life. I just committed that crime that one day. So what happened to all those days that I was just packing a gun and not using it? So I felt like it was a need to talk about that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:07:51] It was hard for some folks to understand why, without a space that was specifically tailored to those conversations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:08:01] So how does it work exactly, Abené? Like, what does it actually look like to go through this program?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:08:09] In the earlier parts of the cohort, they start by discussing their first interactions with gun violence. For example, Jemaine may talk about the shooting incident with his grandparents when he was a kid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:08:24] We talk about growing up as kids, what it was that your beliefs were with firearms to try to combat a bunch of faulty beliefs and rumors that you may have heard as a kid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:08:41] They also talk about what they thought guns were for and how those perceptions were shaped by their past experiences and things they were exposed to, whether it’s through television, whether it was through their neighborhoods, et cetera, and they’re really able to dig in there. And they also do an exercise where they talk to somebody who stands in for their victim.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:09:08] We talk about the primary, secondary, and tertiary victims, everything from the person that you hurt to the person who shoots a gun off around the school. How does it affect them kids that’s in the playground by just hearing them shot?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:09:29] The arms down participant will have to sort of take accountability, talk about the situation that happened that led them to prison and to the group, and they go through that process as well. So it’s a multi-pronged approach to ultimately getting understanding about what led you to believe that a gun was your only tool in that moment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:10:08] It almost sounds like an alcoholics anonymous group, but for folks who’ve used guns in some sort of crime.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:10:27] Yeah, I mean, that’s exactly what it is. When I first started talking to Jemaine and Jesse Milo, one of the group’s co-creators, they compared it directly to like alcoholics anonymous, narcotics anonymous, right? Like anger management. They compared it to all of these different things, but specifically for people with what they’ve coined as a firearm addiction. They think about it in the same way. And when Jemaine would describe how he thought about direarms it was in line with that, right, you wake up, you’re like, where is it? How do I get it if I don’t have it? Where is it gonna come from?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:11:06] Firearm addiction is basically you being codependent for a firearm. The chaos, the things that we’ve been through with a firearm, and you still feel like it’s a need or you’re codependant on this same tool, then you’ve got to address that there’s an issue with this firearm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:11:27] You go to prison for it, you lose relationships because of it, but still, you still need that thing. And while that’s a term I’d never heard before, once I heard it, I was like, well, that makes sense.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:39] Yeah, and I’ve never heard that phrase either, firearm addiction, until you mentioned it. And I guess I wonder why do you think gun violence prevention hasn’t always considered this as part of the solution? 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What do they have to offer? Honestly, you’re in prison. What can you do to like affect the outside? But as we’re seeing through Arms Down, there’s actually plenty you can do, especially when working in concert with folks who are on the outside who believe in what all you got going on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:19] It does sound like there is a sense that what is happening here with Arms Down is a successful model, but of course we are just talking about one program at one prison. And are there efforts happening to expand arms down into other prisons?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:13:38] Yeah, there are. They’ve gotten interest from other guys in prisons throughout the state who are like, man, we want this program here. 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I like to see people kind of in their bag, you know what I’m saying? Doing what they’re meant to do, being able to talk about their lives and just like have their moment. It was also really interesting to see that like Brooke Jenkins was there and a representative from the governor’s office. A researcher from UC Davis was there. Just a really cool confluence of people who actually could affect change and spread the word about this. It like strengthened my resolve around feeling like we really need to ask the people who committed these offenses, who pulled the trigger about what happened. People struggle with that because there’s a victim on the other side, you know what I’m saying? There is someone, and I thought about it while writing this story, there may be someone who sees the name of an arms down graduate who I interviewed and is like perhaps taken back to the worst moment of their lives. 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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:01:47] So, in covering gun violence, people will ask me and ask police, ask officials, why are shootings happening? Why are homicides either up or down?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:00] Abené Clayton is a reporter with the Guardian’s Guns and Lies in America project.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:02:06] And in my mind, I would always think like, well, you’re not gonna have a real answer unless you ask the person who did it. When we talk about crime dynamics, there’s so much analysis and research and commentary that goes into it, but a major sort of missing piece in all of this is talking directly to someone who either did the specific thing or has done something similar, and we don’t do that very often, if at all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:44] You reported on a sort of unique program that turns this on its head in a way because this sort of idea of gun violence prevention is actually happening inside of a prison. Tell us about Arms Down out of San Quentin Rehabilitation Center, formerly known as San Quentin State Prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:03:08] So Arms Down is a mutual help group for firearm offenders styled after these sort of self-help rehabilitative programs that exist in prisons. Right now, they have about 120 guys who, one half of them meet on Tuesdays, another half meets on Fridays. And during those sessions, they sit in groups of like eight to 10, 12 guys pretty much share the experiences that led them to prison and to the Arms Down circles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Automated Voice \u003c/strong>[00:03:43] To accept this call, say or dial 5 now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:03:48] It was founded by an incarcerated man named Jemaine Hunter, who is in prison for a 34 years to life sentence. He’s been inside for the last two decades or so.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:04:02] Hi, my name is Jermaine Hunter. I am the founder of Arms Down, a group that’s mutual help for gun offenders.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:04:16] What is his story?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:04:18] Jemaine is from Fresno. He was born and raised there in the 80s and 90s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:04:24] Fresno, California is like one of them cities back in the, especially back in the eighties, it was like, slow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:04:33] Kind of at the height of the crack, super predator epidemic that we look back on today as a reference point for so many things, whether it’s like tough on crime tactics, what we know today as like community violence, all sorts of things.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:04:50] I was pretty much ambitious with the streets, getting out, trying to be my own man, you know, as a kid, wanting to get out and have things that I wasn’t provided in the household.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:05:09] He told me that his first interaction with gun violence was actually a shooting that happened in his home between his grandparents when he was four or five. I think that kind of sets the stage in his mind for what guns were used for.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:05:26] I was out there standing in the street selling drugs, doing whatever it was that us as hustlers and people that’s prone to the street life do. And the firearm was just an essential tool to carry on with that lifestyle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:05:49] And I think this mindset, he carried it with him, right? Until his offense at age 24, that ended in him being convicted of attempted murder and sentenced to 34 years to life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:04] When Jermaine was in prison, he sort of realized that he wanted to start this program Arms Down. Why did he want to start his program? What did he feel like was missing that he really wanted to fill?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:06:22] He had been in a couple other facilities before getting to San Quentin. And all during that time, he was doing the self-help programs, you know what I’m saying, really trying to heal, you know, victims awareness, things, all of this stuff that people will recommend you become a part of if you are incarcerated. But he told me that there was no group that specifically addressed firearms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:06:49] Just talking to other people on the yard or in prison, you know, after doing seven, eight years or whatever their crimes, a lot of them still thought about having a firearm after doing all this time. So I definitely understood that it was a need for this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:07:07] In some of the places he was, firearms were seen as like a footnote, right? It was like, oh, you had all of these other things. You just happen to use a gun. But for him and so many other people in who are incarcerated, guns were like a central part of their lives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:07:23] All the classes was basically saying that we were having guns just to kill. I had a gun every day of my life. I just committed that crime that one day. So what happened to all those days that I was just packing a gun and not using it? So I felt like it was a need to talk about that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:07:51] It was hard for some folks to understand why, without a space that was specifically tailored to those conversations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:08:01] So how does it work exactly, Abené? Like, what does it actually look like to go through this program?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:08:09] In the earlier parts of the cohort, they start by discussing their first interactions with gun violence. For example, Jemaine may talk about the shooting incident with his grandparents when he was a kid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:08:24] We talk about growing up as kids, what it was that your beliefs were with firearms to try to combat a bunch of faulty beliefs and rumors that you may have heard as a kid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:08:41] They also talk about what they thought guns were for and how those perceptions were shaped by their past experiences and things they were exposed to, whether it’s through television, whether it was through their neighborhoods, et cetera, and they’re really able to dig in there. And they also do an exercise where they talk to somebody who stands in for their victim.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:09:08] We talk about the primary, secondary, and tertiary victims, everything from the person that you hurt to the person who shoots a gun off around the school. How does it affect them kids that’s in the playground by just hearing them shot?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:09:29] The arms down participant will have to sort of take accountability, talk about the situation that happened that led them to prison and to the group, and they go through that process as well. So it’s a multi-pronged approach to ultimately getting understanding about what led you to believe that a gun was your only tool in that moment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:10:08] It almost sounds like an alcoholics anonymous group, but for folks who’ve used guns in some sort of crime.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:10:27] Yeah, I mean, that’s exactly what it is. When I first started talking to Jemaine and Jesse Milo, one of the group’s co-creators, they compared it directly to like alcoholics anonymous, narcotics anonymous, right? Like anger management. They compared it to all of these different things, but specifically for people with what they’ve coined as a firearm addiction. They think about it in the same way. And when Jemaine would describe how he thought about direarms it was in line with that, right, you wake up, you’re like, where is it? How do I get it if I don’t have it? Where is it gonna come from?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jemaine Hunter \u003c/strong>[00:11:06] Firearm addiction is basically you being codependent for a firearm. The chaos, the things that we’ve been through with a firearm, and you still feel like it’s a need or you’re codependant on this same tool, then you’ve got to address that there’s an issue with this firearm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:11:27] You go to prison for it, you lose relationships because of it, but still, you still need that thing. And while that’s a term I’d never heard before, once I heard it, I was like, well, that makes sense.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:39] Yeah, and I’ve never heard that phrase either, firearm addiction, until you mentioned it. And I guess I wonder why do you think gun violence prevention hasn’t always considered this as part of the solution? What does naming it as an addiction do?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:12:01] I think that it allows for sort of updated and expanded ways of thinking about how to address it. It was just a level of insight that I was like, wow, this is missing from the discourse. You know what I’m saying? This is missing. From the conversations we have about gun violence all the time that already are mostly focused on like police prosecution and the like. To binaries of guns everywhere or guns for no one nowhere except for cops. In terms of like outside world violence prevention, I think that people prefer for the redemption arc to be done right before they start listening to someone. They want you to already have been out, been rehabilitated, working with kids, and then they’ll take your expertise on gun violence a little more seriously. You’ll be allowed to have this sort of platform. But also I think people may just like be like, oh, well, they’re in prison. What do they have to offer? Honestly, you’re in prison. What can you do to like affect the outside? But as we’re seeing through Arms Down, there’s actually plenty you can do, especially when working in concert with folks who are on the outside who believe in what all you got going on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:19] It does sound like there is a sense that what is happening here with Arms Down is a successful model, but of course we are just talking about one program at one prison. And are there efforts happening to expand arms down into other prisons?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:13:38] Yeah, there are. They’ve gotten interest from other guys in prisons throughout the state who are like, man, we want this program here. So there’s a lot of interest and plans to get the curriculum down and sort of copyrighted and protected before it gets sent out are underway as we speak.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:14:00] So going back to the Arms Down program at San Quentin, I know that once the cohort finishes the program, there’s a graduation ceremony and you actually went to the most recent one. What was that like?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Abené Clayton \u003c/strong>[00:14:15] It was really something. The first cohort graduated about 60 people and the most recent cohort that I attended the graduation for at the beginning of August, there was about a hundred guys who graduated. It was really cool, honestly, to see people kind of get to interact with their families outside of the typical sort of prison visit environment. And they were pretty giddy, right? Getting their certificates and getting their hugs. I like to see people kind of in their bag, you know what I’m saying? Doing what they’re meant to do, being able to talk about their lives and just like have their moment. It was also really interesting to see that like Brooke Jenkins was there and a representative from the governor’s office. A researcher from UC Davis was there. Just a really cool confluence of people who actually could affect change and spread the word about this. It like strengthened my resolve around feeling like we really need to ask the people who committed these offenses, who pulled the trigger about what happened. People struggle with that because there’s a victim on the other side, you know what I’m saying? There is someone, and I thought about it while writing this story, there may be someone who sees the name of an arms down graduate who I interviewed and is like perhaps taken back to the worst moment of their lives. But as a journalist, it’s my responsibility to take that into account and also recognize the need to still hear from these folks. I think all of these things are so important and give us a level of understanding about gun violence that is sorely missing from today’s conversations.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "in-san-quentin-program-participants-reckon-with-their-pasts-and-lobby-for-statewide-change",
"title": "In San Quentin Program, Participants Reckon With Their Pasts and Lobby for Statewide Change",
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"headTitle": "In San Quentin Program, Participants Reckon With Their Pasts and Lobby for Statewide Change | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>On a recent hot day, in the cool of the San Quentin Rehabilitation Center library, Hugo Campos tells a group of about 10 other incarcerated people the story of his best friend’s death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Motivational posters cover the walls, and three circles of chairs have been set up around tables.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Campos reads slowly from a written reflection, telling the circle that when he was a teenager, his close friend — the local ‘weed guy’ — was shot during a drug deal gone bad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That was a big impact in my life,” Campos said. “I didn’t realize that until I came to prison or until I got to this prompt, honestly.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some of the men nod along and shake their heads when he blames himself. The story is familiar. When he finishes, the facilitator, who is also incarcerated, thanks him for his vulnerability and opens up the conversation for comments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This type of peer counseling session is relatively common at San Quentin these days, where hundreds of volunteers come in every week to help people heal and prepare to reenter society. The prison is so well-known for its rehabilitative culture that Gov. Gavin Newsom last year \u003ca href=\"https://www.gov.ca.gov/2023/03/17/san-quentin-transformation/\">formally renamed it a “rehabilitation center.”\u003c/a> The governor also uses it as the centerpiece for his “California Model,” which focuses on humanizing incarcerated people and normalizing positive interactions between them and the guards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11991734\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-59-BL-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11991734 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-59-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A group of incarcerated people in blue jumpsuits sit in chairs in a circle.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-59-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-59-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-59-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-59-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-59-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-59-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A Spanish-speaking group of incarcerated people participate in a Back to the Start program session in the library at San Quentin Rehabilitation Center on June 3, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Where this program is different from other peer-to-peer counseling groups is what will happen with these written reflections. They’ll be typed up and cataloged. Some will be brought to Sacramento to influence state policies pertaining to childhood social welfare issues.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We actually then work with the participants to leverage their stories for change, for systems change,” said Dr. Jenny Espinoza, co-founder of the program called \u003ca href=\"https://www.backtothestart.org/\">Back to the Start\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Espinoza and other advocates have identified a need for narratives about child welfare, school discipline, juvenile justice, gun safety — issues that are hard for people in the thick of it to comment on. And they have ready storytellers: men who have been through it all with a lot of free time and a sense of debt to society.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Trying to dismantle the ‘cradle-to-prison pipeline’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>For nearly a decade, Espinoza was a primary care doctor at San Quentin before becoming the chief physician and surgeon of California’s prison health care system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She said she vividly remembers, early in her tenure at the prison, meeting a patient who had Hepatitis C and asking how long he’d had it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He just told me very matter-of-factly that when he was 11, his mother stabbed him with a butter knife in the chest,” Espinoza said. He told her that his aunt then injected him with heroin to numb the pain, and he was treated at the hospital with a blood transfusion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11991731\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-23-BL-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11991731\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-23-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-23-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-23-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-23-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-23-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-23-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-23-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Jessie Milo reacts as someone reads a story they wrote during the Back to the Start program at San Quentin Rehabilitation Center on June 3, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>She quickly learned about many more incidents of early trauma among her patients at the prison, including failed foster care placements, abuse and abandonment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That was the juncture where I wish I could have made a difference,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Inside her exam room at the prison hospital, she saw other effects of adverse childhood experiences — \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/aces/about/index.html\">referred to clinically as “ACES,”\u003c/a> which include experiences like abuse, neglect and seeing family members with substance-use issues, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The more ACES someone has, the greater the likelihood they will experience toxic or prolonged stress during childhood, which can influence brain development, CDC research has shown. ACES are also linked to heart disease, diabetes and mental health issues later in life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11991741\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-176-BL-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11991741\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-176-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"An outside view of a large prison facility (San Quentin).\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-176-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-176-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-176-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-176-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-176-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-176-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The San Quentin Rehabilitation Center, formerly known as San Quentin State Prison, on June 3, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Espinoza said she started the program to influence statewide policies impacting early childhood experiences.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Participants in the program review bills under consideration in the state Legislature, select the policies they believe in and write personal letters to advocate for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Close to 30 participants and facilitators meet every Monday in the library to respond in writing to specific prompts about childhood experiences, read their reflections aloud and process them together as a group. Espinoza and another former prison doctor often sit in on the sessions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11991732\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-34-BL-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11991732\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-34-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-34-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-34-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-34-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-34-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-34-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-34-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Hugo Campos (left) speaks to the group after reading a story he wrote during the Back to the Start program at San Quentin Rehabilitation Center on June 3, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Espinoza said by advocating for criminal justice reform, child welfare, violence prevention and education, Back to the Start is trying to dismantle the “cradle-to-prison pipeline” whereby childhood circumstances, poverty and an entrenched school discipline system often set up certain vulnerable people for incarceration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The group has already had one successful lobbying effort. This summer, facilitator Donald Thompson wrote \u003ca href=\"https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/2024/05/08/i-am-serving-a-life-sentence-at-san-quentin-i-know-budget-cuts-will-hurt-foster-youth/\">an op-ed for the \u003cem>San Diego Union-Tribune\u003c/em>\u003c/a> imploring legislators to preserve funding for foster youth. Espinoza believes this and other narratives were part of the reason the funding was restored in the final budget.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Human, too\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Before the sessions start, as men mill around and sign in, 48-year-old facilitator Edwin Chavez introduces himself to outside visitors. Chavez is tall, with salt-and-pepper hair and a ‘San Quentin News’ badge around his neck.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’ve been to the worst of the worst, and to me, San Quentin is not prison,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chavez has been incarcerated for about 30 years and leads the Spanish-speaking group. He said the culture in San Quentin is different from other California prison facilities. Here, he said, guards call him by his name, not his number.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11991735\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-94-BL-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11991735\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-94-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A grey-haired man in a blue prison jumpsuit speaks to other incarcerated people who are sitting next to him on chairs.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-94-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-94-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-94-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-94-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-94-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-94-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Edwin E. Chavez (center) speaks during the Back to the Start program at San Quentin Rehabilitation Center on June 3, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Chavez was a member of Back to the Start’s first cohort last year. He said he grew up in El Salvador during that country’s bloody civil war and understands the trauma that many in the Spanish-speaking group have experienced. Still, he said he learns more from the other men than he ever expected.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even if the stories told here never make it out of the library and into the halls of the Capitol, Chavez said, they still make a difference.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I didn’t even know about the word empathy within myself. Self-empathy, self-love, self-compassion,” he said. “That’s what this group has done for me.”\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"excerpt": "A peer counseling program in the prison aims to influence the childhood social welfare policy in California. Participants say the process is also helping them better understand and come to terms with early traumatic experiences that influenced their trajectories.",
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"title": "In San Quentin Program, Participants Reckon With Their Pasts and Lobby for Statewide Change | KQED",
"description": "A peer counseling program in the prison aims to influence the childhood social welfare policy in California. Participants say the process is also helping them better understand and come to terms with early traumatic experiences that influenced their trajectories.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>On a recent hot day, in the cool of the San Quentin Rehabilitation Center library, Hugo Campos tells a group of about 10 other incarcerated people the story of his best friend’s death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Motivational posters cover the walls, and three circles of chairs have been set up around tables.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Campos reads slowly from a written reflection, telling the circle that when he was a teenager, his close friend — the local ‘weed guy’ — was shot during a drug deal gone bad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That was a big impact in my life,” Campos said. “I didn’t realize that until I came to prison or until I got to this prompt, honestly.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some of the men nod along and shake their heads when he blames himself. The story is familiar. When he finishes, the facilitator, who is also incarcerated, thanks him for his vulnerability and opens up the conversation for comments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This type of peer counseling session is relatively common at San Quentin these days, where hundreds of volunteers come in every week to help people heal and prepare to reenter society. The prison is so well-known for its rehabilitative culture that Gov. Gavin Newsom last year \u003ca href=\"https://www.gov.ca.gov/2023/03/17/san-quentin-transformation/\">formally renamed it a “rehabilitation center.”\u003c/a> The governor also uses it as the centerpiece for his “California Model,” which focuses on humanizing incarcerated people and normalizing positive interactions between them and the guards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11991734\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-59-BL-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11991734 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-59-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A group of incarcerated people in blue jumpsuits sit in chairs in a circle.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-59-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-59-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-59-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-59-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-59-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-59-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A Spanish-speaking group of incarcerated people participate in a Back to the Start program session in the library at San Quentin Rehabilitation Center on June 3, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Where this program is different from other peer-to-peer counseling groups is what will happen with these written reflections. They’ll be typed up and cataloged. Some will be brought to Sacramento to influence state policies pertaining to childhood social welfare issues.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We actually then work with the participants to leverage their stories for change, for systems change,” said Dr. Jenny Espinoza, co-founder of the program called \u003ca href=\"https://www.backtothestart.org/\">Back to the Start\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Espinoza and other advocates have identified a need for narratives about child welfare, school discipline, juvenile justice, gun safety — issues that are hard for people in the thick of it to comment on. And they have ready storytellers: men who have been through it all with a lot of free time and a sense of debt to society.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Trying to dismantle the ‘cradle-to-prison pipeline’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>For nearly a decade, Espinoza was a primary care doctor at San Quentin before becoming the chief physician and surgeon of California’s prison health care system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She said she vividly remembers, early in her tenure at the prison, meeting a patient who had Hepatitis C and asking how long he’d had it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He just told me very matter-of-factly that when he was 11, his mother stabbed him with a butter knife in the chest,” Espinoza said. He told her that his aunt then injected him with heroin to numb the pain, and he was treated at the hospital with a blood transfusion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11991731\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-23-BL-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11991731\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-23-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-23-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-23-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-23-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-23-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-23-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-23-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Jessie Milo reacts as someone reads a story they wrote during the Back to the Start program at San Quentin Rehabilitation Center on June 3, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>She quickly learned about many more incidents of early trauma among her patients at the prison, including failed foster care placements, abuse and abandonment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That was the juncture where I wish I could have made a difference,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Inside her exam room at the prison hospital, she saw other effects of adverse childhood experiences — \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/aces/about/index.html\">referred to clinically as “ACES,”\u003c/a> which include experiences like abuse, neglect and seeing family members with substance-use issues, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The more ACES someone has, the greater the likelihood they will experience toxic or prolonged stress during childhood, which can influence brain development, CDC research has shown. ACES are also linked to heart disease, diabetes and mental health issues later in life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11991741\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-176-BL-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11991741\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-176-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"An outside view of a large prison facility (San Quentin).\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-176-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-176-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-176-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-176-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-176-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-176-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The San Quentin Rehabilitation Center, formerly known as San Quentin State Prison, on June 3, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Espinoza said she started the program to influence statewide policies impacting early childhood experiences.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Participants in the program review bills under consideration in the state Legislature, select the policies they believe in and write personal letters to advocate for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Close to 30 participants and facilitators meet every Monday in the library to respond in writing to specific prompts about childhood experiences, read their reflections aloud and process them together as a group. Espinoza and another former prison doctor often sit in on the sessions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11991732\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-34-BL-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11991732\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-34-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-34-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-34-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-34-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-34-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-34-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-34-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Hugo Campos (left) speaks to the group after reading a story he wrote during the Back to the Start program at San Quentin Rehabilitation Center on June 3, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Espinoza said by advocating for criminal justice reform, child welfare, violence prevention and education, Back to the Start is trying to dismantle the “cradle-to-prison pipeline” whereby childhood circumstances, poverty and an entrenched school discipline system often set up certain vulnerable people for incarceration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The group has already had one successful lobbying effort. This summer, facilitator Donald Thompson wrote \u003ca href=\"https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/2024/05/08/i-am-serving-a-life-sentence-at-san-quentin-i-know-budget-cuts-will-hurt-foster-youth/\">an op-ed for the \u003cem>San Diego Union-Tribune\u003c/em>\u003c/a> imploring legislators to preserve funding for foster youth. Espinoza believes this and other narratives were part of the reason the funding was restored in the final budget.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Human, too\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Before the sessions start, as men mill around and sign in, 48-year-old facilitator Edwin Chavez introduces himself to outside visitors. Chavez is tall, with salt-and-pepper hair and a ‘San Quentin News’ badge around his neck.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’ve been to the worst of the worst, and to me, San Quentin is not prison,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chavez has been incarcerated for about 30 years and leads the Spanish-speaking group. He said the culture in San Quentin is different from other California prison facilities. Here, he said, guards call him by his name, not his number.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11991735\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-94-BL-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11991735\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-94-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A grey-haired man in a blue prison jumpsuit speaks to other incarcerated people who are sitting next to him on chairs.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-94-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-94-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-94-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-94-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-94-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240603-SANQUENTINACES-94-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Edwin E. Chavez (center) speaks during the Back to the Start program at San Quentin Rehabilitation Center on June 3, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Chavez was a member of Back to the Start’s first cohort last year. He said he grew up in El Salvador during that country’s bloody civil war and understands the trauma that many in the Spanish-speaking group have experienced. Still, he said he learns more from the other men than he ever expected.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even if the stories told here never make it out of the library and into the halls of the Capitol, Chavez said, they still make a difference.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I didn’t even know about the word empathy within myself. Self-empathy, self-love, self-compassion,” he said. “That’s what this group has done for me.”\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\u003cp>Converting a state prison into a rehabilitative center, as the Newsom administration seeks to do with San Quentin, means changing how guards do their jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Instead of shying away from “overfamiliarity” with incarcerated people, prison guards should ask them about their families or favorite NFL teams. Instead of only reporting offenses, guards should note positive changes in inmates. Instead of adopting a militarized footing against prisoners, guards should meet them in a common area to eat or watch movies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Those are some of the recommendations from an advisory panel overseeing the conversion of \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/justice/2023/03/san-quentin-prison-gavin-newsom/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">San Quentin into what Gov. Gavin Newsom\u003c/a> called a “model rehabilitation center.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A 156-page report released today by the San Quentin Transformation Advisory Council also calls for an end to double-person cells and better housing for guards who stay on the prison campus in Marin County to avoid long commutes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The report’s recommendations are not required to be adopted by the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One of the biggest changes recommended would be retraining prison guards as “community correctional officers.” In their new role, prison guards hired for this job would be retrained to understand the traumatic life experiences common to incarcerated people, substance abuse disorders, mental illness and anger management.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote align=\"right\" size=\"medium\" citation=\"Unnamed CDCR official\"]‘We train staff like they are going to war. We’re not going to war. We have to change the training.’[/pullquote]Guards with welding, plumbing or carpentry experience could do vocational training in those subjects. Eventually, the community correctional officers would become part of an inmate’s rehabilitation team.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The report quoted an unnamed correction department official who said: “We train staff like they are going to war. We’re not going to war. We have to change the training.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San Quentin houses about 3,300 of California’s more than 90,000 inmates. In March, Newsom pledged to transform the prison into a rehabilitation hub. He has marked \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/prisons/2023/02/how-many-prisons-does-california-need/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">four other state prisons for closure\u003c/a> since he took office in 2019, a trend enabled by California’s falling population of state prison inmates.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"h-newsom-looks-to-norway-on-prison-policy\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Newsom looks to Norway on prison policy\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The plan for San Quentin is modeled on prisons in Scandinavian countries, \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/insidecdcr/2019/12/16/california-leaders-learn-from-norwegian-prison-system/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">including Norway\u003c/a>, which significantly decreased its rate of prisoners being convicted of crimes after release from 60%–70% in the 1980s to about 20% today when it began to allow prisoners more freedom and focused its prisons on rehabilitation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In those prisons, incarcerated people can wear their own clothes, cook their own food and have relative freedom of movement within the prison walls. That model \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/justice/criminal-justice/2022/06/prison-rehabilitation-norway-model/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">has taken root\u003c/a> in states as disparate as deep-blue Connecticut and deep-red North Dakota.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California prison officials \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/insidecdcr/2019/12/16/california-leaders-learn-from-norwegian-prison-system/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">took a tour of Norwegian facilities\u003c/a> in 2019 and said they came away impressed. The group included leaders from the union representing state prison guards, the California Correctional Peace Officers Association.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11971777\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1568px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11971777\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/031723-SAN-QUENTIN-REHABILITATION-CENTER-MHN-08-CM-copy.jpg\" alt=\"An older inmate walks away from the camera with a wall on one side and a fence on the other.\" width=\"1568\" height=\"1045\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/031723-SAN-QUENTIN-REHABILITATION-CENTER-MHN-08-CM-copy.jpg 1568w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/031723-SAN-QUENTIN-REHABILITATION-CENTER-MHN-08-CM-copy-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/031723-SAN-QUENTIN-REHABILITATION-CENTER-MHN-08-CM-copy-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/031723-SAN-QUENTIN-REHABILITATION-CENTER-MHN-08-CM-copy-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/031723-SAN-QUENTIN-REHABILITATION-CENTER-MHN-08-CM-copy-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1568px) 100vw, 1568px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An inmate at San Quentin State Prison on March 17, 2023. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Newsom estimated it would cost $380 million to remodel the prison as a rehabilitation campus. The new report from his advisory committee urges the administration to look for ways to reduce that expense.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Though California lawmakers have mentioned the prison programs in Norway and North Dakota as successful systems to replicate, it’s unclear exactly what California’s model will look like. That’s something the Legislative Analyst’s Office pointed out \u003ca href=\"https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4771\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">in a report last year\u003c/a>, shortly after Newsom announced the conversion plan for San Quentin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“While the administration has articulated some broad approaches to pursuing the goals of the California Model, such as ‘becoming a trauma-informed organization,’ it has not identified any clear changes to policy, practice, or prison environments it deems necessary to achieve the goals,” the report’s author, Caitlin O’Neil, wrote in May.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"h-san-quentin-already-home-to-rehab-programs\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">San Quentin already home to rehab programs\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>San Quentin, California’s oldest prison, has a lengthy list of maintenance needs that totaled \u003ca href=\"https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4186\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">more than $1.6 billion in 2021\u003c/a>. But it also has an \u003ca href=\"https://sanquentinnews.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">award-winning prison newspaper\u003c/a>, the inmate-hosted podcast Ear Hustle and a program in which inmates can earn an associate’s degree in general studies after completing 20 classes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"Related Stories\" postID=\"news_11959818,news_11956776,forum_2010101894449\"]Keith Brown, who served time at California State Prison, Corcoran and is still incarcerated at San Quentin, told CalMatters in July that the experience in San Quentin was notably better.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Corcoran “didn’t have any programs, really, and it (got) real hot there,” Brown said. “Here, it’s a little bit better. Asked the principal to take (a) class, and he got me right in.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The advisory report notes that San Quentin is a desirable location for inmates, with a waiting list that sometimes stretches for years, so the prison should take as many inmates as it can. But San Quentin also has major renovation needs, and the cost just to bring it up to code is prohibitive. The only way to do that, according to the report, is to reduce the number of inmates at San Quentin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The complications go further still — California elected officials have shown a distaste for more prison spending while the prison population drops and would prefer to spend that money on community-oriented solutions, but cutting money to the prisons means fewer programs and worse living conditions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There is no magic wand that can resolve all of these tensions,” the advisory group wrote in the report. “Policymakers will be grappling with these tradeoffs.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>CalMatters investigative reporter Byrhonda Lyons contributed to this story.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Converting a state prison into a rehabilitative center, as the Newsom administration seeks to do with San Quentin, means changing how guards do their jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Instead of shying away from “overfamiliarity” with incarcerated people, prison guards should ask them about their families or favorite NFL teams. Instead of only reporting offenses, guards should note positive changes in inmates. Instead of adopting a militarized footing against prisoners, guards should meet them in a common area to eat or watch movies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Those are some of the recommendations from an advisory panel overseeing the conversion of \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/justice/2023/03/san-quentin-prison-gavin-newsom/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">San Quentin into what Gov. Gavin Newsom\u003c/a> called a “model rehabilitation center.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A 156-page report released today by the San Quentin Transformation Advisory Council also calls for an end to double-person cells and better housing for guards who stay on the prison campus in Marin County to avoid long commutes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The report’s recommendations are not required to be adopted by the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One of the biggest changes recommended would be retraining prison guards as “community correctional officers.” In their new role, prison guards hired for this job would be retrained to understand the traumatic life experiences common to incarcerated people, substance abuse disorders, mental illness and anger management.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Guards with welding, plumbing or carpentry experience could do vocational training in those subjects. Eventually, the community correctional officers would become part of an inmate’s rehabilitation team.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The report quoted an unnamed correction department official who said: “We train staff like they are going to war. We’re not going to war. We have to change the training.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San Quentin houses about 3,300 of California’s more than 90,000 inmates. In March, Newsom pledged to transform the prison into a rehabilitation hub. He has marked \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/prisons/2023/02/how-many-prisons-does-california-need/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">four other state prisons for closure\u003c/a> since he took office in 2019, a trend enabled by California’s falling population of state prison inmates.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"h-newsom-looks-to-norway-on-prison-policy\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Newsom looks to Norway on prison policy\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The plan for San Quentin is modeled on prisons in Scandinavian countries, \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/insidecdcr/2019/12/16/california-leaders-learn-from-norwegian-prison-system/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">including Norway\u003c/a>, which significantly decreased its rate of prisoners being convicted of crimes after release from 60%–70% in the 1980s to about 20% today when it began to allow prisoners more freedom and focused its prisons on rehabilitation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In those prisons, incarcerated people can wear their own clothes, cook their own food and have relative freedom of movement within the prison walls. That model \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/justice/criminal-justice/2022/06/prison-rehabilitation-norway-model/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">has taken root\u003c/a> in states as disparate as deep-blue Connecticut and deep-red North Dakota.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California prison officials \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/insidecdcr/2019/12/16/california-leaders-learn-from-norwegian-prison-system/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">took a tour of Norwegian facilities\u003c/a> in 2019 and said they came away impressed. The group included leaders from the union representing state prison guards, the California Correctional Peace Officers Association.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11971777\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1568px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11971777\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/031723-SAN-QUENTIN-REHABILITATION-CENTER-MHN-08-CM-copy.jpg\" alt=\"An older inmate walks away from the camera with a wall on one side and a fence on the other.\" width=\"1568\" height=\"1045\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/031723-SAN-QUENTIN-REHABILITATION-CENTER-MHN-08-CM-copy.jpg 1568w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/031723-SAN-QUENTIN-REHABILITATION-CENTER-MHN-08-CM-copy-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/031723-SAN-QUENTIN-REHABILITATION-CENTER-MHN-08-CM-copy-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/031723-SAN-QUENTIN-REHABILITATION-CENTER-MHN-08-CM-copy-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/031723-SAN-QUENTIN-REHABILITATION-CENTER-MHN-08-CM-copy-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1568px) 100vw, 1568px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An inmate at San Quentin State Prison on March 17, 2023. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Newsom estimated it would cost $380 million to remodel the prison as a rehabilitation campus. The new report from his advisory committee urges the administration to look for ways to reduce that expense.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Though California lawmakers have mentioned the prison programs in Norway and North Dakota as successful systems to replicate, it’s unclear exactly what California’s model will look like. That’s something the Legislative Analyst’s Office pointed out \u003ca href=\"https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4771\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">in a report last year\u003c/a>, shortly after Newsom announced the conversion plan for San Quentin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“While the administration has articulated some broad approaches to pursuing the goals of the California Model, such as ‘becoming a trauma-informed organization,’ it has not identified any clear changes to policy, practice, or prison environments it deems necessary to achieve the goals,” the report’s author, Caitlin O’Neil, wrote in May.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"h-san-quentin-already-home-to-rehab-programs\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">San Quentin already home to rehab programs\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>San Quentin, California’s oldest prison, has a lengthy list of maintenance needs that totaled \u003ca href=\"https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4186\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">more than $1.6 billion in 2021\u003c/a>. But it also has an \u003ca href=\"https://sanquentinnews.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">award-winning prison newspaper\u003c/a>, the inmate-hosted podcast Ear Hustle and a program in which inmates can earn an associate’s degree in general studies after completing 20 classes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Keith Brown, who served time at California State Prison, Corcoran and is still incarcerated at San Quentin, told CalMatters in July that the experience in San Quentin was notably better.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Corcoran “didn’t have any programs, really, and it (got) real hot there,” Brown said. “Here, it’s a little bit better. Asked the principal to take (a) class, and he got me right in.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The advisory report notes that San Quentin is a desirable location for inmates, with a waiting list that sometimes stretches for years, so the prison should take as many inmates as it can. But San Quentin also has major renovation needs, and the cost just to bring it up to code is prohibitive. The only way to do that, according to the report, is to reduce the number of inmates at San Quentin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The complications go further still — California elected officials have shown a distaste for more prison spending while the prison population drops and would prefer to spend that money on community-oriented solutions, but cutting money to the prisons means fewer programs and worse living conditions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There is no magic wand that can resolve all of these tensions,” the advisory group wrote in the report. “Policymakers will be grappling with these tradeoffs.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>CalMatters investigative reporter Byrhonda Lyons contributed to this story.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "Newsom's Plan to Transform San Quentin Prison Through a Secret Council Raises Questions",
"headTitle": "Newsom’s Plan to Transform San Quentin Prison Through a Secret Council Raises Questions | KQED",
"content": "\u003cp>Gov. Gavin Newsom’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11956776/can-newsom-transform-san-quentin-prison-into-the-nations-most-innovative-rehabilitation-facility\">planned transformation of San Quentin State Prison\u003c/a> into a rehabilitation facility after decades as the home for death row inmates is being shaped by a hand-picked advisory council that is allowed to meet in secret.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>State lawmakers initially balked at Newsom’s $360 million plan to tear down an old furniture factory on the prison grounds and replace it with a building more reminiscent of a college campus, with a student union, classrooms and possibly a coffee shop. But they eventually approved the project during state budget negotiations, trading away transparency provisions and a formal oversight role for themselves in the process.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Democratic governor wants to remake San Quentin, where the state performed executions, into \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11943855/were-turning-a-new-page-infamous-san-quentin-prison-to-be-transformed-into-rehabilitation-center\">a model for preparing people for life on the outside\u003c/a> — a shift from the state’s decades-long focus on punishment.[aside label=\"Related Stories\" postID=\"news_11943855,news_11956776\"]And he wants it all complete by December 2025, just before he leaves office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The 21-member advisory council Newsom selected began meeting in June to discuss the new facility’s design and programming. A requirement that it follow open meetings law was removed during budget negotiations, meaning the group’s discussions are behind closed doors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After inquiries from The Associated Press, the governor’s office said it will release the advisory council’s report to the public before Newsom presents his next budget to lawmakers in January.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Since the very beginning of this process, the administration has engaged a diverse set of stakeholders and committed to transparently making the advisory council’s recommendations public. Our partners in the Legislature — along with stakeholders including victims, incarcerated individuals and their families, (The Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation) staff, and program providers — are the linchpin to San Quentin’s success,” Izzy Gardon, deputy director of communications for Newsom, said in a statement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The closed-door meetings are a concern for both supporters and critics of prison reform. Republican lawmakers say the Legislature needs more of a say in the process, especially when the state faces a nearly \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11949333/gov-newsom-says-california-budget-deficit-has-grown-to-nearly-32-billion\">$32 billion budget deficit\u003c/a>. Criminal justice advocates say reforming San Quentin is a distraction from the real goal of closing more prisons.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Spending hundreds of millions on new prison infrastructure is a step in the wrong direction,” said Brian Kaneda of \u003ca href=\"https://curbprisonspending.org/\">CURB\u003c/a>, a criminal justice reform coalition. “If there’s no public accessibility to the San Quentin advisory council meetings, that’s a really significant concern that I think people aren’t paying enough attention to.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The advisory council includes criminal justice reform advocates, San Quentin top brass and Newsom political allies like Sacramento Mayor Darrell Steinberg. It has met at least five times since June, and it will give a preliminary report to the administration this September and a final report in December.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom announced his plans in March for remaking and renaming the facility, in Marin County, to the San Quentin Rehabilitation Center. He said California would offer its own take on the Scandinavian prison model where cells look more like dorm rooms and inmates have access to activities and educational programs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11732471/gov-newsom-to-end-death-penalty-by-executive-order-political-fallout-likely\">Newsom in 2019 instituted a moratorium on executions\u003c/a>, and the state has begun moving San Quentin’s remaining 700 death row inmates to other prisons. San Quentin is home to more than 3,600 inmates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San Quentin already has some of the nation’s most innovative programs for inmates. In July, Newsom’s administration invited reporters to tour the prison, showcasing accredited college classes, a coding academy and the prison’s award-winning newsroom, among \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/sports-tennis-prisons-7ab3f64fbcc7969a0d4f8ddb19145a5e\">other programs\u003c/a>. Many inmates said they’re excited for more programming spaces, but others remained skeptical.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Juan Haines, an inmate at San Quentin for nearly three decades, said the governor’s efforts would only work if both inmates and prison guards are buying into the vision, he told reporters during the July media tour.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Steinberg, one of the advisory council’s leaders, said the group is tackling how to retrain correctional officers and improve inmates’ experience, among other issues.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11944149\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/newsomsqcmingest/\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11944149\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/03/NewsomSQCMIngest.jpg\" alt='Gov. Gavin Newsom, wearing a navy suit, white-collared shirt, and blue necktie, points to his right as he speaks from a podium with a sign that reads, \"San Quentin Rehabilitation Center\" during his tour of the state of California.' width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/03/NewsomSQCMIngest.jpg 2000w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/03/NewsomSQCMIngest-800x533.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/03/NewsomSQCMIngest-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/03/NewsomSQCMIngest-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/03/NewsomSQCMIngest-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/03/NewsomSQCMIngest-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Gov. Gavin Newsom speaks at San Quentin State Prison announcing that the facility will be transformed to focus on training and rehabilitation on March 17, 2023. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation started soliciting contractors to design the new campus before lawmakers approved the budget, and a firm has been hired with plans to start construction next year. Lawmakers waived the historic preservation requirement and an environmental impact review to speed up the project.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The San Quentin campus would cost $360 million, funded through a lease revenue bond. Lawmakers also agreed to another $20 million from the general fund for other smaller capital projects recommended by the council.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Democratic lawmakers, who hold a supermajority in California, said they’re supportive of Newsom’s project. Approving it helped them score a different political victory.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In exchange for approval, they added a provision to the budget giving them access to key data on the operational capacities of prisons across the state, which they say will help determine which to shut down. California has roughly 15,000 empty prison beds, a number that’s expected to grow.[aside postID=news_11888753 hero='https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2021/09/SanQuentin-flickr.jpg']Assemblymember Phil Ting (D-San Francisco), who chairs the Assembly Budget Committee, said lawmakers have been promised more details on San Quentin but their goal is “to have a much larger discussion regarding the overall system … not just on one prison.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Republican Assemblymember Tom Lackey, who sits on the budget subcommittee on public safety, said Newsom did not seek lawmakers’ input. “We’re the oversight, supposedly,” Lackey said. “So how can you oversee something that has such minimal amount of communication?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Thanh Tran, who was imprisoned at San Quentin from 2018 to 2022, said the whole process was a “black hole” for the public. Tran, who now works for the \u003ca href=\"https://ellabakercenter.org/\">Ella Baker Center for Human Rights\u003c/a>, said grassroots efforts to engage with lawmakers and the administration were ignored.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The governor has made his choice,” Tran said. “He has given this unfettered power to this advisory council that is allowed to meet in secret, and we are boxed out.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom told reporters in August that there would be “formal” and “informal” engagement about the San Quentin project with the Legislature throughout the process, but that the state needs to act with urgency.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t have many summers left, I want to get it going,” he said. “People are counting on us. They’re waiting for us.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lawmakers from both parties initially scoffed at the high price tag and rejected Newsom’s plan. The Legislature’s nonpartisan advisors said it lacked details and called the 2025 deadline “unnecessary” and “problematic.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The budget that lawmakers passed contained provisions that would have allowed them to appoint at least two members to the advisory council, required the council to hold public meetings and mandated the administration provide them updates. Yet, days later, they gave Newsom the whole $380 million package — with all of the accountability provisions they wanted cut out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ting defended the deal, saying the state won’t authorize the lease revenue bond for the project without “very, very detailed plans.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Gov. Gavin Newsom’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11956776/can-newsom-transform-san-quentin-prison-into-the-nations-most-innovative-rehabilitation-facility\">planned transformation of San Quentin State Prison\u003c/a> into a rehabilitation facility after decades as the home for death row inmates is being shaped by a hand-picked advisory council that is allowed to meet in secret.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>State lawmakers initially balked at Newsom’s $360 million plan to tear down an old furniture factory on the prison grounds and replace it with a building more reminiscent of a college campus, with a student union, classrooms and possibly a coffee shop. But they eventually approved the project during state budget negotiations, trading away transparency provisions and a formal oversight role for themselves in the process.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Democratic governor wants to remake San Quentin, where the state performed executions, into \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11943855/were-turning-a-new-page-infamous-san-quentin-prison-to-be-transformed-into-rehabilitation-center\">a model for preparing people for life on the outside\u003c/a> — a shift from the state’s decades-long focus on punishment.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>And he wants it all complete by December 2025, just before he leaves office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The 21-member advisory council Newsom selected began meeting in June to discuss the new facility’s design and programming. A requirement that it follow open meetings law was removed during budget negotiations, meaning the group’s discussions are behind closed doors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After inquiries from The Associated Press, the governor’s office said it will release the advisory council’s report to the public before Newsom presents his next budget to lawmakers in January.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Since the very beginning of this process, the administration has engaged a diverse set of stakeholders and committed to transparently making the advisory council’s recommendations public. Our partners in the Legislature — along with stakeholders including victims, incarcerated individuals and their families, (The Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation) staff, and program providers — are the linchpin to San Quentin’s success,” Izzy Gardon, deputy director of communications for Newsom, said in a statement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The closed-door meetings are a concern for both supporters and critics of prison reform. Republican lawmakers say the Legislature needs more of a say in the process, especially when the state faces a nearly \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11949333/gov-newsom-says-california-budget-deficit-has-grown-to-nearly-32-billion\">$32 billion budget deficit\u003c/a>. Criminal justice advocates say reforming San Quentin is a distraction from the real goal of closing more prisons.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Spending hundreds of millions on new prison infrastructure is a step in the wrong direction,” said Brian Kaneda of \u003ca href=\"https://curbprisonspending.org/\">CURB\u003c/a>, a criminal justice reform coalition. “If there’s no public accessibility to the San Quentin advisory council meetings, that’s a really significant concern that I think people aren’t paying enough attention to.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The advisory council includes criminal justice reform advocates, San Quentin top brass and Newsom political allies like Sacramento Mayor Darrell Steinberg. It has met at least five times since June, and it will give a preliminary report to the administration this September and a final report in December.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom announced his plans in March for remaking and renaming the facility, in Marin County, to the San Quentin Rehabilitation Center. He said California would offer its own take on the Scandinavian prison model where cells look more like dorm rooms and inmates have access to activities and educational programs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11732471/gov-newsom-to-end-death-penalty-by-executive-order-political-fallout-likely\">Newsom in 2019 instituted a moratorium on executions\u003c/a>, and the state has begun moving San Quentin’s remaining 700 death row inmates to other prisons. San Quentin is home to more than 3,600 inmates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San Quentin already has some of the nation’s most innovative programs for inmates. In July, Newsom’s administration invited reporters to tour the prison, showcasing accredited college classes, a coding academy and the prison’s award-winning newsroom, among \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/sports-tennis-prisons-7ab3f64fbcc7969a0d4f8ddb19145a5e\">other programs\u003c/a>. Many inmates said they’re excited for more programming spaces, but others remained skeptical.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Juan Haines, an inmate at San Quentin for nearly three decades, said the governor’s efforts would only work if both inmates and prison guards are buying into the vision, he told reporters during the July media tour.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Steinberg, one of the advisory council’s leaders, said the group is tackling how to retrain correctional officers and improve inmates’ experience, among other issues.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11944149\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/newsomsqcmingest/\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11944149\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/03/NewsomSQCMIngest.jpg\" alt='Gov. Gavin Newsom, wearing a navy suit, white-collared shirt, and blue necktie, points to his right as he speaks from a podium with a sign that reads, \"San Quentin Rehabilitation Center\" during his tour of the state of California.' width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/03/NewsomSQCMIngest.jpg 2000w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/03/NewsomSQCMIngest-800x533.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/03/NewsomSQCMIngest-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/03/NewsomSQCMIngest-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/03/NewsomSQCMIngest-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/03/NewsomSQCMIngest-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Gov. Gavin Newsom speaks at San Quentin State Prison announcing that the facility will be transformed to focus on training and rehabilitation on March 17, 2023. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation started soliciting contractors to design the new campus before lawmakers approved the budget, and a firm has been hired with plans to start construction next year. Lawmakers waived the historic preservation requirement and an environmental impact review to speed up the project.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The San Quentin campus would cost $360 million, funded through a lease revenue bond. Lawmakers also agreed to another $20 million from the general fund for other smaller capital projects recommended by the council.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Democratic lawmakers, who hold a supermajority in California, said they’re supportive of Newsom’s project. Approving it helped them score a different political victory.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In exchange for approval, they added a provision to the budget giving them access to key data on the operational capacities of prisons across the state, which they say will help determine which to shut down. California has roughly 15,000 empty prison beds, a number that’s expected to grow.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Assemblymember Phil Ting (D-San Francisco), who chairs the Assembly Budget Committee, said lawmakers have been promised more details on San Quentin but their goal is “to have a much larger discussion regarding the overall system … not just on one prison.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Republican Assemblymember Tom Lackey, who sits on the budget subcommittee on public safety, said Newsom did not seek lawmakers’ input. “We’re the oversight, supposedly,” Lackey said. “So how can you oversee something that has such minimal amount of communication?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Thanh Tran, who was imprisoned at San Quentin from 2018 to 2022, said the whole process was a “black hole” for the public. Tran, who now works for the \u003ca href=\"https://ellabakercenter.org/\">Ella Baker Center for Human Rights\u003c/a>, said grassroots efforts to engage with lawmakers and the administration were ignored.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The governor has made his choice,” Tran said. “He has given this unfettered power to this advisory council that is allowed to meet in secret, and we are boxed out.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom told reporters in August that there would be “formal” and “informal” engagement about the San Quentin project with the Legislature throughout the process, but that the state needs to act with urgency.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t have many summers left, I want to get it going,” he said. “People are counting on us. They’re waiting for us.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lawmakers from both parties initially scoffed at the high price tag and rejected Newsom’s plan. The Legislature’s nonpartisan advisors said it lacked details and called the 2025 deadline “unnecessary” and “problematic.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The budget that lawmakers passed contained provisions that would have allowed them to appoint at least two members to the advisory council, required the council to hold public meetings and mandated the administration provide them updates. Yet, days later, they gave Newsom the whole $380 million package — with all of the accountability provisions they wanted cut out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ting defended the deal, saying the state won’t authorize the lease revenue bond for the project without “very, very detailed plans.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"title": "Can Newsom Really Transform San Quentin Into the 'Nation's Most Innovative Rehabilitation Facility'?",
"headTitle": "Can Newsom Really Transform San Quentin Into the ‘Nation’s Most Innovative Rehabilitation Facility’? | KQED",
"content": "\u003cp>Four months after Gov. Gavin Newsom announced an ambitious plan to transform San Quentin State Prison into a model for rehabilitation, reporters got a tour of the penitentiary best known as home to California’s largest execution chamber.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom’s idea: to move condemned incarcerated people to other maximum security prisons in California and transform the prison on the San Francisco Bay into “the nation’s most innovative rehabilitation facility.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We want to create an atmosphere where the residents and the correctional officers are interacting as human beings,” said Sacramento Mayor Darrell Steinberg, the governor’s senior advisor on San Quentin’s future, during a walk through the prison this week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11956887\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"wp-image-11956887 size-full\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-23-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A room full of men sitting at computers and working in blue uniforms.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-23-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-23-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-23-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-23-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-23-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-23-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Latice Collins (left) and other incarcerated individuals learn coding in the The Last Mile coding program at San Quentin State Prison. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Steinberg and Ron Bloomfield, the prison’s warden, led about a dozen journalists through an update on the reimagined penitentiary that will focus on preparing incarcerated people for life on the outside.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“[It’s] a fundamental change in the way that personnel, starting with correctional officers, are trained and how they are recruited and retained,” Steinberg said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>The Norway model\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Newsom’s plan for San Quentin is based largely on the way Norway and other Scandinavian countries approach crime and punishment, through de-emphasizing incarceration and deprivation of rights and prioritizing rehabilitation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a recent interview, state Assembly Public Safety Committee Chair Reggie Jones-Sawyer (D-Los Angeles) joked that “it’s my fault” Newsom is using Norway as a model.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A decade ago, Jones-Sawyer traveled to Norway to see how it approaches crime and punishment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“And so what I learned is it’s completely different from the way we do it,” he said. “The most you can serve, whether you did murder, rape or whatever, you only would do 25 years, which means you’re going to get out, which means we have to rehabilitate this person no matter what in Norway.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11956886\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"wp-image-11956886 size-full\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-11-KQED-1.jpg\" alt=\"People jump for a ball on a basketball court.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-11-KQED-1.jpg 2000w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-11-KQED-1-800x533.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-11-KQED-1-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-11-KQED-1-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-11-KQED-1-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-11-KQED-1-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Incarcerated people play basketball in the yard at San Quentin State Prison. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Broomfield, San Quentin’s warden, acknowledged that comparing California to Norway, where the recidivism rate is less than a third of what it is in the United States, “is like comparing a grape to a watermelon,” but he says he’s 100% behind the shift.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The way Broomfield sees it, public safety requires humanizing incarcerated people and giving them real skills they can use once they are paroled.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“And we’re not going to do that by institutionalizing them,” he said. “We’re going to do that by treating them like citizens of our state. Preparing them with opportunities to really produce a better neighbor upon release.”[pullquote align=\"right\" size=\"medium\" citation=\"Rob Broomfield, warden of San Quentin Prison\"]‘And we’re not going to do that by institutionalizing them. We’re going to do that by treating them like citizens of our state. Preparing them with opportunities to really produce a better neighbor upon release.’[/pullquote]San Quentin, like the rest of California’s sprawling prison system, has had more than its share of bad news over the years. In 2009, \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/us/10prison.html\">a three-judge panel ordered the state\u003c/a> to reduce its overflowing prison population, which at one point had reached 167% of capacity. The court ruled that the state’s outdated prison health system amounted to cruel and unusual punishment, in violation of the Eighth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And more recently, a \u003ca href=\"https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/san-quentin-covid-outbreak-cruel-unusual-punishment-cdcr-inmates/\">Marin County Superior Court judge ruled\u003c/a> that California prison officials inflicted “cruel and unusual punishment” on people in San Quentin when more than 2,600 of them — including some staff — contracted COVID-19 in the summer of 2020. The massive outbreak happened shortly after the state transferred 121 inmates from another prison with the highest COVID rates into San Quentin’s general population without properly testing and quarantining them. In all, 28 incarcerated people, and one staff member, died of the disease.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11956679\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-05-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11956679\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-05-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A man wearing sunglasses in front of a large building.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-05-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-05-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-05-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-05-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-05-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-05-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Warden Ron Broomfield at San Quentin State Prison. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Can San Quentin really be transformed?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Juan Haines, who has been incarcerated 27 years, is hopeful but also skeptical about the proposed changes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s a lot of people in California prisons, and just rehabilitation is the last thing on their minds,” Haines, an editor at the \u003cem>San Quentin News\u003c/em>, the prison’s award-winning newspaper, told me. “But then there’s a lot of people in California prisons that are really looking for opportunities to better their lives.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Asked to put on his journalist’s hat and say what makes him question the success of this shift, Haines rattled off several things.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m skeptical about California’s overcrowded prisons and I’m skeptical over buy-in from both sides,” he said. “I’ve talked to a lot of correctional officers that really love this idea. And then there’s some that don’t.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11956889\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11956889\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-17-1-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A man with glasses outdoors anA man with glasses outdoors and beside a chain-link fence topped with barbed wire.d beside a chain-link fence topped with barbed wire.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-17-1-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-17-1-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-17-1-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-17-1-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-17-1-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-17-1-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Juan Haines, who is incarcerated at San Quentin State Prison, where he is an editor of the prison’s award-winning newspaper, stands outside the prison’s adult learning center. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Jones-Sawyer noted that when he first got to the Legislature over a decade ago, the state Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, the agency had “a \u003cem>big\u003c/em> ‘C’” for corrections, and a “little bitty ‘R'” for rehabilitation — and said he’s pleased that is changing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom’s goal to transform the state’s oldest prison into a center of innovation and education is a notion that thrills many criminal justice reformers while antagonizing death penalty proponents and other conservatives.[aside label=\"related coverage\" tag=\"san-quentin\"]At a legislative budget hearing on Newsom’s plan in May, one Republican lawmaker found the lack of details disturbing. “I try not to consider it insulting, but it’s close,” said Assemblymember Tom Lackey (R-Palmdale). “I find it to be very disturbing that we’re following a pathway where we’re being asked to fund first and answers will come later.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A \u003ca href=\"https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4771\">report\u003c/a> by California’s nonpartisan Legislative Analyst’s Office underscored those concerns, noting that the governor “has not set clear and specific objectives for meeting these goals.” The administration, it added, “has not identified any clear changes to policy, practice, or prison environments it deems necessary to achieve the goals.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some Democrats also raised concerns about the lack of detail in Newsom’s proposal. In the end, the Legislature approved the governor’s request for $360 million in this year’s budget to convert an old furniture warehouse at San Quentin into a kind of “college campus” with more space for classes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are also questions about the timeline. Newsom wants the first phase of construction and programming completed by 2025.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The elephant in the room, of course, is whether Newsom is insisting on a finish date to coincide with a widely anticipated run for president in 2028. When asked if the ribbon cutting for the new facility would be in Iowa, an early presidential primary state, members of the governor’s staff laughed, with a tacit acknowledgment that this is tied to Newsom’s ambitions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11956682\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-15-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11956682\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-15-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A large open indoor space.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-15-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-15-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-15-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-15-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-15-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-15-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Warehouse space at San Quentin that is slated to be converted into an education facility as part of the prison’s transformation to a rehabilitation center. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Jody Lewen, the president of Mount Tamalpais College, which runs college preparatory classes at San Quentin, has high hopes for the prison’s proposed transformation, but worries there won’t be enough space to accommodate many more students on top of the 300 already enrolled.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I believe this whole process will be successful if the Department of Corrections and the governor’s office don’t allow themselves to be rushed, if they allow themselves a methodical planning process and they take the time that it takes to undertake something this massive,” said Lewen, who is on the council advising the prison’s transformation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lewen thinks the school could double or triple enrollment if the renovation is done properly, \u003cstrong>“\u003c/strong>but if they rush, it’s going to be really hard to develop the plans and the vision that will ultimately support the realization of the vision everybody’s hoping will come to fruition.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are other huge obstacles to success, such as transforming the culture of a prison system focused largely on punishment, where there has long been strict adherence to rules, and consequences for breaking them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom says he’s inspired by the Scandinavian model, where guards and people behind bars have a much less adversarial relationship than is the norm in California prisons. But whether the powerful California Correctional Peace Officers Association — the union representing prison guards — will embrace Newsom’s vision is very much an open question.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11956819\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"wp-image-11956819 size-full\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67271_230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-14-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A person in a green uniform stands in front of a chain link fence topped in barbed wire.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67271_230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-14-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67271_230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-14-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67271_230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-14-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67271_230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-14-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67271_230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-14-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67271_230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-14-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Officer T. Ascencio stands guard on the yard at San Quentin State Prison. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We are 100% behind the Norway project when it’s done right,” Glen Stailey, head of the CCPOA, \u003ca href=\"https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-03-16/newsom-wants-to-transform-san-quentin-using-a-scandinavian-model\">told the \u003cem>LA Times\u003c/em>\u003c/a> earlier this year, without elaborating on what exactly that may entail.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While challenges and problems still exist at the prison, one thing is nearly certain: San Quentin’s days as the place where most death sentences in California are carried out are over.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There hasn’t been an execution since Clarence Ray Allen was put to death in 2006.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Shortly after Newsom came into office, he issued an \u003ca href=\"https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/3.13.19-EO-N-09-19.pdf\">executive order (PDF)\u003c/a> putting a moratorium on executions, which remains in effect until he leaves office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Newsom will likely be long gone before the impact of his reimagined San Quentin is fully evaluated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "Four months after the governor announced his ambitious plan to transform California's oldest prison into a model for rehabilitation, reporters got a tour of the infamous lockup that's home to the state's largest death row.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Four months after Gov. Gavin Newsom announced an ambitious plan to transform San Quentin State Prison into a model for rehabilitation, reporters got a tour of the penitentiary best known as home to California’s largest execution chamber.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom’s idea: to move condemned incarcerated people to other maximum security prisons in California and transform the prison on the San Francisco Bay into “the nation’s most innovative rehabilitation facility.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We want to create an atmosphere where the residents and the correctional officers are interacting as human beings,” said Sacramento Mayor Darrell Steinberg, the governor’s senior advisor on San Quentin’s future, during a walk through the prison this week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11956887\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"wp-image-11956887 size-full\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-23-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A room full of men sitting at computers and working in blue uniforms.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-23-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-23-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-23-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-23-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-23-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-23-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Latice Collins (left) and other incarcerated individuals learn coding in the The Last Mile coding program at San Quentin State Prison. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Steinberg and Ron Bloomfield, the prison’s warden, led about a dozen journalists through an update on the reimagined penitentiary that will focus on preparing incarcerated people for life on the outside.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“[It’s] a fundamental change in the way that personnel, starting with correctional officers, are trained and how they are recruited and retained,” Steinberg said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>The Norway model\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Newsom’s plan for San Quentin is based largely on the way Norway and other Scandinavian countries approach crime and punishment, through de-emphasizing incarceration and deprivation of rights and prioritizing rehabilitation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a recent interview, state Assembly Public Safety Committee Chair Reggie Jones-Sawyer (D-Los Angeles) joked that “it’s my fault” Newsom is using Norway as a model.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A decade ago, Jones-Sawyer traveled to Norway to see how it approaches crime and punishment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“And so what I learned is it’s completely different from the way we do it,” he said. “The most you can serve, whether you did murder, rape or whatever, you only would do 25 years, which means you’re going to get out, which means we have to rehabilitate this person no matter what in Norway.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11956886\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"wp-image-11956886 size-full\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-11-KQED-1.jpg\" alt=\"People jump for a ball on a basketball court.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-11-KQED-1.jpg 2000w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-11-KQED-1-800x533.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-11-KQED-1-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-11-KQED-1-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-11-KQED-1-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-11-KQED-1-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Incarcerated people play basketball in the yard at San Quentin State Prison. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Broomfield, San Quentin’s warden, acknowledged that comparing California to Norway, where the recidivism rate is less than a third of what it is in the United States, “is like comparing a grape to a watermelon,” but he says he’s 100% behind the shift.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The way Broomfield sees it, public safety requires humanizing incarcerated people and giving them real skills they can use once they are paroled.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“And we’re not going to do that by institutionalizing them,” he said. “We’re going to do that by treating them like citizens of our state. Preparing them with opportunities to really produce a better neighbor upon release.”\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>San Quentin, like the rest of California’s sprawling prison system, has had more than its share of bad news over the years. In 2009, \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/us/10prison.html\">a three-judge panel ordered the state\u003c/a> to reduce its overflowing prison population, which at one point had reached 167% of capacity. The court ruled that the state’s outdated prison health system amounted to cruel and unusual punishment, in violation of the Eighth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And more recently, a \u003ca href=\"https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/san-quentin-covid-outbreak-cruel-unusual-punishment-cdcr-inmates/\">Marin County Superior Court judge ruled\u003c/a> that California prison officials inflicted “cruel and unusual punishment” on people in San Quentin when more than 2,600 of them — including some staff — contracted COVID-19 in the summer of 2020. The massive outbreak happened shortly after the state transferred 121 inmates from another prison with the highest COVID rates into San Quentin’s general population without properly testing and quarantining them. In all, 28 incarcerated people, and one staff member, died of the disease.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11956679\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-05-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11956679\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-05-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A man wearing sunglasses in front of a large building.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-05-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-05-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-05-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-05-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-05-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-05-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Warden Ron Broomfield at San Quentin State Prison. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Can San Quentin really be transformed?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Juan Haines, who has been incarcerated 27 years, is hopeful but also skeptical about the proposed changes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s a lot of people in California prisons, and just rehabilitation is the last thing on their minds,” Haines, an editor at the \u003cem>San Quentin News\u003c/em>, the prison’s award-winning newspaper, told me. “But then there’s a lot of people in California prisons that are really looking for opportunities to better their lives.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Asked to put on his journalist’s hat and say what makes him question the success of this shift, Haines rattled off several things.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m skeptical about California’s overcrowded prisons and I’m skeptical over buy-in from both sides,” he said. “I’ve talked to a lot of correctional officers that really love this idea. And then there’s some that don’t.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11956889\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11956889\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-17-1-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A man with glasses outdoors anA man with glasses outdoors and beside a chain-link fence topped with barbed wire.d beside a chain-link fence topped with barbed wire.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-17-1-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-17-1-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-17-1-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-17-1-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-17-1-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-17-1-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Juan Haines, who is incarcerated at San Quentin State Prison, where he is an editor of the prison’s award-winning newspaper, stands outside the prison’s adult learning center. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Jones-Sawyer noted that when he first got to the Legislature over a decade ago, the state Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, the agency had “a \u003cem>big\u003c/em> ‘C’” for corrections, and a “little bitty ‘R'” for rehabilitation — and said he’s pleased that is changing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom’s goal to transform the state’s oldest prison into a center of innovation and education is a notion that thrills many criminal justice reformers while antagonizing death penalty proponents and other conservatives.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>At a legislative budget hearing on Newsom’s plan in May, one Republican lawmaker found the lack of details disturbing. “I try not to consider it insulting, but it’s close,” said Assemblymember Tom Lackey (R-Palmdale). “I find it to be very disturbing that we’re following a pathway where we’re being asked to fund first and answers will come later.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A \u003ca href=\"https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4771\">report\u003c/a> by California’s nonpartisan Legislative Analyst’s Office underscored those concerns, noting that the governor “has not set clear and specific objectives for meeting these goals.” The administration, it added, “has not identified any clear changes to policy, practice, or prison environments it deems necessary to achieve the goals.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some Democrats also raised concerns about the lack of detail in Newsom’s proposal. In the end, the Legislature approved the governor’s request for $360 million in this year’s budget to convert an old furniture warehouse at San Quentin into a kind of “college campus” with more space for classes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are also questions about the timeline. Newsom wants the first phase of construction and programming completed by 2025.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The elephant in the room, of course, is whether Newsom is insisting on a finish date to coincide with a widely anticipated run for president in 2028. When asked if the ribbon cutting for the new facility would be in Iowa, an early presidential primary state, members of the governor’s staff laughed, with a tacit acknowledgment that this is tied to Newsom’s ambitions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11956682\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-15-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11956682\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-15-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A large open indoor space.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-15-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-15-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-15-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-15-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-15-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-15-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Warehouse space at San Quentin that is slated to be converted into an education facility as part of the prison’s transformation to a rehabilitation center. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Jody Lewen, the president of Mount Tamalpais College, which runs college preparatory classes at San Quentin, has high hopes for the prison’s proposed transformation, but worries there won’t be enough space to accommodate many more students on top of the 300 already enrolled.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I believe this whole process will be successful if the Department of Corrections and the governor’s office don’t allow themselves to be rushed, if they allow themselves a methodical planning process and they take the time that it takes to undertake something this massive,” said Lewen, who is on the council advising the prison’s transformation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lewen thinks the school could double or triple enrollment if the renovation is done properly, \u003cstrong>“\u003c/strong>but if they rush, it’s going to be really hard to develop the plans and the vision that will ultimately support the realization of the vision everybody’s hoping will come to fruition.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are other huge obstacles to success, such as transforming the culture of a prison system focused largely on punishment, where there has long been strict adherence to rules, and consequences for breaking them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom says he’s inspired by the Scandinavian model, where guards and people behind bars have a much less adversarial relationship than is the norm in California prisons. But whether the powerful California Correctional Peace Officers Association — the union representing prison guards — will embrace Newsom’s vision is very much an open question.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11956819\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"wp-image-11956819 size-full\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67271_230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-14-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A person in a green uniform stands in front of a chain link fence topped in barbed wire.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67271_230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-14-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67271_230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-14-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67271_230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-14-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67271_230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-14-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67271_230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-14-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/07/RS67271_230726-SAN-QUENTIN-MHN-14-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Officer T. Ascencio stands guard on the yard at San Quentin State Prison. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We are 100% behind the Norway project when it’s done right,” Glen Stailey, head of the CCPOA, \u003ca href=\"https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-03-16/newsom-wants-to-transform-san-quentin-using-a-scandinavian-model\">told the \u003cem>LA Times\u003c/em>\u003c/a> earlier this year, without elaborating on what exactly that may entail.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While challenges and problems still exist at the prison, one thing is nearly certain: San Quentin’s days as the place where most death sentences in California are carried out are over.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There hasn’t been an execution since Clarence Ray Allen was put to death in 2006.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Shortly after Newsom came into office, he issued an \u003ca href=\"https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/3.13.19-EO-N-09-19.pdf\">executive order (PDF)\u003c/a> putting a moratorium on executions, which remains in effect until he leaves office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Newsom will likely be long gone before the impact of his reimagined San Quentin is fully evaluated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"title": "School Board Clashes and a Look Inside Newsom's San Quentin Reforms",
"headTitle": "School Board Clashes and a Look Inside Newsom’s San Quentin Reforms | KQED",
"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cem>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Scott and Marisa discuss Governor Gavin Newsom’s plan to reform San Quentin State Prison \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— and Scott shares what inmates are saying about it\u003c/span>. Then, Los Angeles Times reporter Mackenzie Mays joins to discuss school board fights in Southern California that have caught the attention of Newsom and other state officials.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Hey, everybody. From KQED Public Radio, it’s Political Breakdown. I’m Scott Shafer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> And I’m Marisa Lagos on today’s show: schools and prisons. L.A. Times reporter Mackenzie Mays joins us to talk about how conservative members of school boards and parts of California are challenging state mandates and curriculum on issues like LGBTQ history and sex education. Even booting out the state school superintendent from a Southern California school board meeting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Yeah, exactly. And Marisa, I want to start, I think with the prison part of that Governor Newsom’s plan to transform San Quentin Prison into what he likes to call the California model. It’s rehabilitation for prisoners who will eventually be released, which is, you know, the vast majority of inmates. They will be paroled at some point. And I took a tour of the prison yesterday to learn more about the governor’s plan, which is really inspired by how Norway and other Scandinavian countries manage crime and punishment, less emphasis on punishments, more attention to preparing prisoners for life on the outside.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> Yeah. And I mean, since he rolled that out, Scott, there’s been some criticism about the lack of details in the plan. But at this tour, you were with the warden and Sacramento mayor, Darrell Steinberg, who’s actually advising the governor on all of this. What did you hear from them? What did you see?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Yeah, well, obviously, the both the warden and Steinberg are embracing this in a big way. And, you know, let’s face it, San Quentin has already been doing they’re really an outlier in the corrections system. They’ve been doing a lot of programing there for many, many years. But this is really an expansion of that. And yeah, you’re right, there is some criticism on the lack of details. But, you know, Steinberg says really what we’re talking about here is pretty basic, a fundamental change in the way that personnel, starting with correctional officers, are trained and how they are recruited and retained. And, you know, that is that is a big issue, Marisa. You know, obviously, the the corrections officers don’t all think about sitting down and having coffee with prisoners, which is exactly what they’re envisioning. You know, they’re talking about having more interaction, shaking hands, playing pickleball with the with these with these men, which is kind of what they do in Norway and some of these Scandinavian countries.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> I mean, honestly, like you and I have both covered a lot of prisons and criminal justice over the years. We’ve covered a lot of the reforms that have happened on the outside of prisons. And I actually kind of think we’ll get into the, you know, money they need to spend on infrastructure and all of that and programs. But to me, the culture change here seems like really the nub of this. And probably the most challenging part. I mean, we’ve seen this on the outside with the way a lot of police departments have really pushed back against reforms that voters have passed and kind of refused to enact them in some ways. Right. In terms of like when we talk about Prop 47 and this feeling of like, oh, well, you know, it’s a misdemeanor, I don’t even want to arrest someone. And I’ve been doing a lot of reporting, you know, Scott, around juvenile justice and the problems that plagued those state facilities. You know, a lot of those officers are now being hired by this, the adult system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Do you think that’s a good thing? I mean, based on the way they have, you know, been in their jobs, is that are they going to be down with this new approach?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> I mean, you would think it would actually make sense because our juvenile system has been, at least on paper, more based towards rehabilitation than punishment. But the story that we’ve been hearing in recent months about the drug use, the drug furnishing by officers, you know, a lot of these problems, I think, is it it just speaks to the challenges there. And so that’s something I’ll be watching. But as we noted, there’s also been criticisms about sort of the like mechanics of doing this. What have you heard from lawmakers?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Of course, the governor’s been pushing this and he’s got a pretty tight timeline. And he got the legislature to approve $360 million. And this is the first phase of what they’re going to do. They’re going to knock down an old furniture factory that inmates used to work in at San Quentin, replace it with what they’re describing as a campus kind of a situation for more classrooms. The culture change. It applies not only to the corrections officers but also to the the men who are they’re incarcerated. And I talked to one of those guys, Juan Haines, who’s been incarcerated for 27 years. He’s actually one of the editors for the San Quentin News, which is an award winning newspaper that I went into the newsroom, talked with him and some of the other guys. And, you know, here’s you know, I asked him to put on his journalist’s hat and, you know, what is he skeptical about when he hears this plan?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Juan Haines:\u003c/strong> I’m skeptical about the people that are actually going to be pushing the buttons. I’m skeptical about California’s overcrowded prisons and I’m skeptical over buy in from both sides. I’ve talked to a lot of correctional officers that really love this idea. And then there’s some that don’t.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Yeah, for sure. And, you know, one of the things that Steinberg talked about is that corrections often this is a hard job for corrections officers, you know, and the idea of transforming the job into not only social work, but more and more human, more humane is something that he thinks that the guards, the peace officers there will. The corrections officers will embrace because they’ll feel better about what they do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I mean, that was an argument Jerry Brown made in changing some of the way that we program in prisons, giving more opportunities for rehabilitation. I mean, but also interestingly, one, Haynes mentioned both sides, and I think this is also going to require buy in from prisoners, folks who, you know, are like it takes all sides. And I think if you don’t have that and I think that’ll require, again, the trust building that trust with folks. But beyond all this, Scott, I mean, we got to talk about the politics, this political breakdown. You know, the governor seems to maybe have his eyes on higher office outside of California, as you may have heard on this show and elsewhere.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> He has sub-zero interest in that, come on Marisa.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> Subzero in the White House. But truthfully, I mean, if this were successful, it would certainly be something you could run on on a national platform. What do you think he’s looking at? Like, what are the politics here, both immediate but more long term for the governor?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Well, he has set this timeline of 2025. And it was you know, we were asking Steinberg like, okay, what does that mean? January 20, 25, December 2025, You know, it was you know, Steinberg knows that this is really squishy. He said August 4th, you know, and just pulling a number. And I said, oh, is the ribbon cutting going to be in Iowa? You know, because clearly this is the kind of big idea that Newsom loves to talk about and run on. I mean, criminal justice and crime are things that, you know, Democrats at the moment are a little bit on their their back heels on their a little bit on the defensive. And I think he sees this as the kind of thing that will appeal to that maybe broad middle of voters who want to see rules. They want to see public safety and sell this as good for public safety, because as these folks get out of prison and go into the community, if they’re not prepared to take jobs, what are they going to do? They’re going to turn to crime again because they won’t have many alternatives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> Absolutely. And I mean, we like I said, we’ve done a lot of work to try, you know, to make that reentry smoother. But I think anything you do on the front end when folks are behind bars is going to help greatly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Well, and I would say the front end is really high school. Well, you know, yeah, you know, there are there are legislators, of course, like Reggie Jones Sawyer, who wants to take some of these elusive savings from closing prisons and plow it into the front end, the real front end, which is before they get in trouble. But, you know, job programs, violence prevention, that kind of thing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> Yeah and I think we should say I mean, I do think there’s been a lot of concern, both driven by both politics and just like what people are actually experiencing around crime. But if you look at overall crime rates compared to 30 years ago, they are still so low. We’ve seen the state shutter already, a couple of prisons more in the pipeline to shut down. They have ended a lot of contracts with private prison operators. And so I think, all told, you know, this is part of a trend we’ve seen in California. You know, I think there’s an open question as to whether reimagining a 150 year old prison is the best way. Should we just be starting from scratch?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Well, exactly. And if you look at death row, those there’s still 550 or so condemned inmates there. They’re gradually moving them out to other maximum security prisons. And you know what? They’re not going to just knock that down. I mean, maybe that would be the best thing to do. But they’re not. They’re going to make some revisions to it. But certainly housing and space in general is an opportunity, but also a huge challenge, not just at San Quentin, but, you know, across the system. And so there are those who say, well, geez, maybe there’s something better to to use this money in different ways, spread it out across different institutions. You know, just about 5% of all the people who are incarcerated in California are at San Quentin. And I think what we’re going to see is sort of a quote unquote, cream of the crop come to San Quentin, those who really are motivated to change, to learn skills and so on. And those who aren’t are going to go to some of these other prisons that don’t have these programs, or at least not in the numbers that they’ve had them at Quentin for so long.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> Yeah. All right. Well, we will keep watching that. I know you will and I will as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Yeah, absolutely. All right. We’re going to take a short break. And when we return, we’re going to be joined by L.A. Times reporter Mackenzie Mays. She’s been covering the politics around LGBTQ issues and other cultural issues that are roiling local school districts in California. You’re listening to Political Breakdown from KQED Public Radio.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Welcome back to Political Breakdown. I’m Scott Shafer here with Marisa Lagos. And we’re going to turn to the fights over curriculum and how to treat students who identify as transgender that have roiled local school districts and captured the attention of state officials like Governor Gavin Newsom and state Superintendent Tony Thurmond. Los Angeles Times, state government and politics reporter Mackenzie Mays has been covering these dustups and she joins us now from Sacramento. Hey, Mackenzie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> Hey, how are you?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Doing well. So, you know, we’ve been hearing about these kinds of issues really for almost years, but it’s mostly been in red states like Florida and Texas, you know, limiting what teachers can say, that kind of thing. Parental rights fights. It seems like this is relatively new to California. Is that is that your take?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> I would say that it feels new in California because it’s one of the only pathways to sort of power over policy that Republicans have. Right. They can’t get policy change in either house of the state legislature. As you know, we have a governor who’s a Democrat. So we had foreseen that, you know, Republicans were trying to stack local school boards. And so depending on what city and what school they represent, that is a way that they can have some power over policy. So I think that’s why it feels so different in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> Do you feel like any of this came out of the kind of parent anger we saw around COVID closures? Because it seems and mask mandates and all that because while this has become more of a right left issue, I mean, that did galvanize a lot of parents kind of across the political spectrum.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> Yeah, Yeah, definitely. I mean, I sort of wrote about this last year where we knew that, you know, they they were promising a quote unquote, red wave for school boards in California. We didn’t see that, you know, but in the communities where it did happen, it’s, you know, playing out in the ways that we’re seeing now in Temecula and Chino. And that parental rights slogan is something that’s not happening in California but is like a right talking point across the nation. And I think it sprung out of out of COVID frustrations and school frustrations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> And to what extent do you think this is being driven by religion? You know, conservative churches that have supported harsher policies around things like LGBTQ rights? Are they weighing in in this way with school districts as well?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> Yeah, actually, I you know, I’ve covered a lot of school board meetings in my in my day. I’ve covered them in Fresno and in the South. And even for me, watching the meeting in Temecula was really something. You know, I had said there was lots of God and lots of gabble. You know, there were Bible scriptures quoted there. You know, God came up a lot like it’s not really something that anyone’s trying to hide. Now, whether or not they’re they’re doing that in schools. Like, I think they understand the rules about church and state and all of that. But this is a board meeting where they can say other things. And I actually watched a sermon in a conservative church in Temecula afterward, and they invited some of the school board members to, you know, the sermon. And, you know, it is a church and only two of the three could come, otherwise they would violate —\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> The Brown Act! That’s so interesting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> Yeah. It’s getting it’s getting pretty you know, it’s just. Yeah, that that’s safe to say for sure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> So let’s let’s talk about Temecula. You were down there. This is a school board. We should mention that I believe three the three majority members that are kind of proposing and supporting a lot of these controversial things were, I think, recruited by a local pastor to run. And they started off in the spring by banning critical race theory. Was that did that even get on your radar or was that kind of more of a local conversation?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> I mean, the CRT thing has been on my radar for a while and it gets really confusing because often what some opponents say is CRT isn’t even actually that right. So it gets really tricky about what sort of history lessons they want to teach and what they don’t. But it’s pretty own brand we see, you know, it didn’t take long for us to go from textbooks to in another city. It was about transgender and youth rights. And CRT sort of falls right in there with those topics.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Another big skirmish down in Temecula, of course, was over gay rights hero Harvey Milk in school lessons and Governor Newsom’s reaction to that. The school district was calling milk a pedophile, which is ridiculous. And the governor reacted strongly, said he’s going to send textbooks down there. Talk about how that played out, how the governor responded and where things are now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I think, you know, it’s pretty rare in California for a governor to insert himself, I guess, in a local school board. If you we if you talk to school board officials across the state and teachers, all you hear about is local control because California is so big. So California sets the laws and the standards and everybody’s pretty up front about how hard it is to actually regulate and enforce those. So to see a governor say, “You can’t do this, and if you do this, I’m going to make sure that I fine you” was really interesting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And he had a lot of supporters saying, yes, like you need to step in because they’re not doing the right thing. But he also had a lot of critics saying, we don’t know if you’re doing this because it’s sound policy or if it’s better for your political profile because, you know, that’s the side you want to be on in the culture wars, if you’re Newsom, right? and so I think, you know, we’re all waiting to see how it will play out. There’s a lot of questions about like, okay, what happens when this happens again? You know, will we see that same sort of attention that some people thought was outsized in this situation?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> What I mean, we’re reading about this from here. We talked about this last week on the show, but we should explain to folks that essentially the school board tried to reject a state approved curriculum that included some supplemental materials, mentioning Harvey Milk. They sort of since backed off. What is your sense, though? Like is this is this splitting the community down there that is a relatively purple district, I believe, or is it are people there supportive of it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> Well, I mean, we know there were enough people there to vote the board members and that support it, and that’s a majority of the board. So we know that. But I also talk to parents, you know, this this meeting went on for like 9 hours and went past midnight. And there were parents who opposed it, too, and teachers, too. And some of the folks that oppose the conservative majority and support the Harvey Milk text say that a lot of the drama that they’re seeing at school board meetings is like outside agitators, they call them. They’re like, they’re not parents, they’re not even voters. They’re just sort of glomming on to this big sort of conservative issue without really having a stake in the school board, which is really interesting and all sorts of things that have like little to do with schools kept coming up at the school board meeting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I thought it was really interesting. Like there’s a like sex trafficking would come up a few times in that movie that’s a big on like right wing talking point right now. You know, the just certain things that usually, you know, the one of the —\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> There’s a media bubble that a lot of people live in that not everybody understands what they’re talking about.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Which silo were you in?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> Yeah, Yeah. I mean, one of the one of the parents who is actually hoping to work on a recall effort to recall the majority conservative majority on the board, said that their slogan is make school board, make school board meetings boring again. Okay. They used to be really boring about budgets and stuff, and now they’ve become something else.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Yeah, well, you know, of course, Governor Newsom, before all this happened, has been very critical of states like Florida and especially Governor Ron DeSantis with the, you know, don’t say gay bill and some of the other things he’s doing down there around transgender rights. And, you know, now we’re hearing from Temecula and Chino that, hey, this is, you know, the governor interfering with local control. So how is what Newsom is doing different from what DeSantis is doing and got criticized for by Newsom?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I actually I talked to an attorney who compared the two, and I’m sure Newsom does not like ever being compared to DeSantis. As we know, they’re sort of like arch nemeses and just constant rivals. But to Newsom’s point, he would say, you know, the school board’s breaking the law. We have laws that say you must teach LGBT history. We have laws about comprehensive sex ed, laws about ethnic studies. I mean, California has all of the laws already when it comes to textbooks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so he could say, you know, this isn’t the same because what DeSantis is doing is sort of the opposite and some would argue is illegal over that way, too, because, you know, depending on what you’re allowing a teacher to teach or a school board official to push, so and I talked to his office and they said, you know, just because we believe in local control and deferring to communities about what’s best for them doesn’t mean you can break the law. You know, those are two different things, is what they say.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> Do you think, though, that like there are potential pitfalls for Democrats for pushing back because like we’re talking about local control? I mean, that is something that has been championed to some extent by both kind of wings of of the political system here in California as being important. Right. That you want people to have that buy-in. So do you feel like there’s either political or practical kind of pitfalls when the state tries to come in and push these things?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> I think the potential pitfall and it’s something that’s come up in conversations a lot is what happens when the shoe is on the other foot, so to speak. So like there are liberal school boards who have said, we don’t want to teach these texts. And it may be because they use a racial slur or something like that, but the texts are like, you know, otherwise literary, like, you know, all of us read them. And so I guess the pitfall could be, you know, will you be treating a district with different political views the same way? I mean, I don’t know if that would be violating. You know, they could pick a different book and still stay in the standards. They just might not want one book. And that’s ultimately actually what Temecula ended up doing. You know, they are following the law now. They just didn’t choose the Harvey Milk book after all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer: \u003c/strong>Well, another issue in the culture wars bubbled up in Chino Valley School Board. That’s another school district in the Inland Empire, this one in San Bernardino County. And the issue is not books, but transgender kids. Tell us about that, how it played out and you know why Tony Thurmond, the school superintendent, you know, decided to go down there and address them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> He won’t talk to any of us!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> When you see something like that happen, only a couple of days after something like this happened, you do start to think, wait a second, is there a pattern happening? But there the school board voted for like what they call a parental notification system. So if a kid is transgender or identifies in a way that they say is not on their birth certificate as far as the pronouns that they want to use a bathroom, that’s different from what they used to be using, they’re going to notify their parents. So the conservative majority on that school board and the parents that support it say parents should know everything about their kids. That’s their right. And then gay rights advocates say this is really dangerous because the very kids that may not tell their parents might not feel safe and not be in homes where they feel safe to do that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so you’re taking away from them this like sort of safe haven that they think a school should be by what they say would be outing them against their will. And so another potential pitfalls. Like everybody’s like, where’s Gavin on this? You know, it’s kind of hard for the governor to choose to be involved in one and not in this one. And we do know that that state lawmakers have already said, hey, we’re going to we’re going to work on something, write up a bill to to make sure that this doesn’t happen, because right now that that policy is approved and it’s, you know, that’s in play there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> Before we talk, I do want to talk about Tony Thurmond, but you mention Newsom. And I do think that I mean, this feels like a stickier issue for him. I think it was very easy for him to come out swinging when Harvey Milk was accused of being a pedophile. But parental notification is not quite as clean of a line for for liberals, I would imagine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> Yeah. I mean, it’s all about the language, too. Parental notification, parental rights know, that’s sort of a cultural term that’s really hard for anybody to disagree with. It’s more one of those things that you need to drill down and understand what somebody means when they say that because it’s such an umbrella term, it’s like who would be anti-parent, you know, But you have to sort of get to what really what they mean behind that, I guess.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Yeah, Well, we have seen the legislature obviously getting activated on this. And, you know, the school board association actually seemed to take Temecula side on that school book issue. We’ve got others, you know, warning about state overreach. Corey Jackson, a freshman legislator from down that way, has got a bill coming up around all this. Like where how do you see this shaking out in the legislature? And do we see more of those same fault lines that Marisa and you just talked about regarding like books versus parental notification?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> No. I mean, everyone I’ve talked to about the textbook law, at least, is like that. That bill is good as gold. So that bill before was a flop. I had talked to Jackson about it. It didn’t have support from important people like CTA or CCPA because it was became a local control issue. But the governors sort of swooped in and has made it his bill in a way, and immediately had tacked on support from leadership in the legislature. So everyone’s like, Yeah, that’s going to happen. There’s not really going to be a I don’t think there’s going to be a big divide there. And as you know, we have, you know, supermajorities of Democrats in the legislature. We’ll have to wait to see what the other issue, what the other bill looks like and if the old, you know, stand up against some, I guess, tougher criticism than this textbook bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I know we just have you for a few more minutes, Mackenzie. I do want to ask the state superintendent, Tony Thurmond kind of shouted down out of that Chino Valley School board meeting. He says he was kicked out. It looked like he was kind of asked to leave maybe after his public comment. But I made a joke about Thurmond. I mean, he has not been super accessible, I think, to the press or the public in a lot of ways. Do you think he’s trying to kind of burnishes his credentials politically with all of this and and what role does he actually have a superintendent?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> I mean, people in Sacramento definitely viewed it that way. He’s running for governor. Well, he had just announced that he, you know, is considering a run for governor and that he had opened a committee. So to see him, you know, stand up and talk in public. You know, he signed up as just like sort of like a layman, like a normal member of the public. It’s really kind of wild to see the state superintendent of all the schools in California just sort of show up there instead of like have you know, it kind of tells me that they weren’t working together, something on that issue. He was quick to tweet about it afterward and is angry with that district. And he did say he was ejected. And I watched the tape and I saw that police were talking to him at the podium afterward. But I also just saw just a few minutes ago that the school district put out a statement saying that that he wasn’t ejected. And now they’re angry with him for saying that he was.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> ‘We wish he’d kept talking.’\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> Yeah, it’s hard to it’s hard not to see, you know, it through a political lens.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Yeah, of course. And of course, all this, you know, if you look at the broader politics, it’s playing out at a time that the legislature is trying to repeal the Prop eight, which passed in 2008 banning same sex marriage, Of course, that’s already been resolved through the courts. So it’s kind of symbolic. But, you know, we also have, you know, talk about repealing the travel ban to states which have anti LGBTQ politics and laws. So what do you make of the fact that all of this is coming up right now? I mean, is this just part is this in some way tied to 2024, do you think?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> I think that it’s that local piece again, I think because, I mean, California has the strongest LGBT rights and protections, like you just mentioned as a state, right. But I think to see this, it’s because it’s kind of the only way we can see them wedge through. Like maybe you might see this on a city council in a certain city or a board, a supes or something. But usually, you know, this is kind of as hyperlocal as it gets. And so I think that’s where we’re that’s sort of the only way it pokes through in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> Final question before we let you go. I mean, the president has even been talking about this. We’ve seen him kind of linking the abortion SCOTUS decision and MAGA extremists to book bans. I know there’s a civil rights investigation by the Department of Education into whether Texas school district’s sweeping removal of LGBT themed books constitutes discrimination. We always talk about California leading the nation, are we are we going to be leaders here Mackenzie? What do we what do we expect in the coming months and in the next year on all of this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> On the textbook situation, I mean, we we sort of already are in a lot of ways. I think that’s part of the criticism too, is we already have the most stringent education standards for schools as far as diversity and inclusion goes. So I guess, you know, the governor has to follow through on this law, obviously, and it’ll probably be the strictest sort of form of regulation we’ve seen. And again, it will put California as sort of the antithesis of these red states, which is something we see Newsom do a lot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> And, of course, all this is happening in during summer break. Right? Right. So the kids aren’t even in school and they’re all arguing about the kids. All right. Mackenzie Mays from the Los Angeles Times, thank you so much for joining us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cem>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Scott and Marisa discuss Governor Gavin Newsom’s plan to reform San Quentin State Prison \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— and Scott shares what inmates are saying about it\u003c/span>. Then, Los Angeles Times reporter Mackenzie Mays joins to discuss school board fights in Southern California that have caught the attention of Newsom and other state officials.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Hey, everybody. From KQED Public Radio, it’s Political Breakdown. I’m Scott Shafer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> And I’m Marisa Lagos on today’s show: schools and prisons. L.A. Times reporter Mackenzie Mays joins us to talk about how conservative members of school boards and parts of California are challenging state mandates and curriculum on issues like LGBTQ history and sex education. Even booting out the state school superintendent from a Southern California school board meeting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Yeah, exactly. And Marisa, I want to start, I think with the prison part of that Governor Newsom’s plan to transform San Quentin Prison into what he likes to call the California model. It’s rehabilitation for prisoners who will eventually be released, which is, you know, the vast majority of inmates. They will be paroled at some point. And I took a tour of the prison yesterday to learn more about the governor’s plan, which is really inspired by how Norway and other Scandinavian countries manage crime and punishment, less emphasis on punishments, more attention to preparing prisoners for life on the outside.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> Yeah. And I mean, since he rolled that out, Scott, there’s been some criticism about the lack of details in the plan. But at this tour, you were with the warden and Sacramento mayor, Darrell Steinberg, who’s actually advising the governor on all of this. What did you hear from them? What did you see?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Yeah, well, obviously, the both the warden and Steinberg are embracing this in a big way. And, you know, let’s face it, San Quentin has already been doing they’re really an outlier in the corrections system. They’ve been doing a lot of programing there for many, many years. But this is really an expansion of that. And yeah, you’re right, there is some criticism on the lack of details. But, you know, Steinberg says really what we’re talking about here is pretty basic, a fundamental change in the way that personnel, starting with correctional officers, are trained and how they are recruited and retained. And, you know, that is that is a big issue, Marisa. You know, obviously, the the corrections officers don’t all think about sitting down and having coffee with prisoners, which is exactly what they’re envisioning. You know, they’re talking about having more interaction, shaking hands, playing pickleball with the with these with these men, which is kind of what they do in Norway and some of these Scandinavian countries.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> I mean, honestly, like you and I have both covered a lot of prisons and criminal justice over the years. We’ve covered a lot of the reforms that have happened on the outside of prisons. And I actually kind of think we’ll get into the, you know, money they need to spend on infrastructure and all of that and programs. But to me, the culture change here seems like really the nub of this. And probably the most challenging part. I mean, we’ve seen this on the outside with the way a lot of police departments have really pushed back against reforms that voters have passed and kind of refused to enact them in some ways. Right. In terms of like when we talk about Prop 47 and this feeling of like, oh, well, you know, it’s a misdemeanor, I don’t even want to arrest someone. And I’ve been doing a lot of reporting, you know, Scott, around juvenile justice and the problems that plagued those state facilities. You know, a lot of those officers are now being hired by this, the adult system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Do you think that’s a good thing? I mean, based on the way they have, you know, been in their jobs, is that are they going to be down with this new approach?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> I mean, you would think it would actually make sense because our juvenile system has been, at least on paper, more based towards rehabilitation than punishment. But the story that we’ve been hearing in recent months about the drug use, the drug furnishing by officers, you know, a lot of these problems, I think, is it it just speaks to the challenges there. And so that’s something I’ll be watching. But as we noted, there’s also been criticisms about sort of the like mechanics of doing this. What have you heard from lawmakers?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Of course, the governor’s been pushing this and he’s got a pretty tight timeline. And he got the legislature to approve $360 million. And this is the first phase of what they’re going to do. They’re going to knock down an old furniture factory that inmates used to work in at San Quentin, replace it with what they’re describing as a campus kind of a situation for more classrooms. The culture change. It applies not only to the corrections officers but also to the the men who are they’re incarcerated. And I talked to one of those guys, Juan Haines, who’s been incarcerated for 27 years. He’s actually one of the editors for the San Quentin News, which is an award winning newspaper that I went into the newsroom, talked with him and some of the other guys. And, you know, here’s you know, I asked him to put on his journalist’s hat and, you know, what is he skeptical about when he hears this plan?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Juan Haines:\u003c/strong> I’m skeptical about the people that are actually going to be pushing the buttons. I’m skeptical about California’s overcrowded prisons and I’m skeptical over buy in from both sides. I’ve talked to a lot of correctional officers that really love this idea. And then there’s some that don’t.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Yeah, for sure. And, you know, one of the things that Steinberg talked about is that corrections often this is a hard job for corrections officers, you know, and the idea of transforming the job into not only social work, but more and more human, more humane is something that he thinks that the guards, the peace officers there will. The corrections officers will embrace because they’ll feel better about what they do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I mean, that was an argument Jerry Brown made in changing some of the way that we program in prisons, giving more opportunities for rehabilitation. I mean, but also interestingly, one, Haynes mentioned both sides, and I think this is also going to require buy in from prisoners, folks who, you know, are like it takes all sides. And I think if you don’t have that and I think that’ll require, again, the trust building that trust with folks. But beyond all this, Scott, I mean, we got to talk about the politics, this political breakdown. You know, the governor seems to maybe have his eyes on higher office outside of California, as you may have heard on this show and elsewhere.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> He has sub-zero interest in that, come on Marisa.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> Subzero in the White House. But truthfully, I mean, if this were successful, it would certainly be something you could run on on a national platform. What do you think he’s looking at? Like, what are the politics here, both immediate but more long term for the governor?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Well, he has set this timeline of 2025. And it was you know, we were asking Steinberg like, okay, what does that mean? January 20, 25, December 2025, You know, it was you know, Steinberg knows that this is really squishy. He said August 4th, you know, and just pulling a number. And I said, oh, is the ribbon cutting going to be in Iowa? You know, because clearly this is the kind of big idea that Newsom loves to talk about and run on. I mean, criminal justice and crime are things that, you know, Democrats at the moment are a little bit on their their back heels on their a little bit on the defensive. And I think he sees this as the kind of thing that will appeal to that maybe broad middle of voters who want to see rules. They want to see public safety and sell this as good for public safety, because as these folks get out of prison and go into the community, if they’re not prepared to take jobs, what are they going to do? They’re going to turn to crime again because they won’t have many alternatives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> Absolutely. And I mean, we like I said, we’ve done a lot of work to try, you know, to make that reentry smoother. But I think anything you do on the front end when folks are behind bars is going to help greatly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Well, and I would say the front end is really high school. Well, you know, yeah, you know, there are there are legislators, of course, like Reggie Jones Sawyer, who wants to take some of these elusive savings from closing prisons and plow it into the front end, the real front end, which is before they get in trouble. But, you know, job programs, violence prevention, that kind of thing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> Yeah and I think we should say I mean, I do think there’s been a lot of concern, both driven by both politics and just like what people are actually experiencing around crime. But if you look at overall crime rates compared to 30 years ago, they are still so low. We’ve seen the state shutter already, a couple of prisons more in the pipeline to shut down. They have ended a lot of contracts with private prison operators. And so I think, all told, you know, this is part of a trend we’ve seen in California. You know, I think there’s an open question as to whether reimagining a 150 year old prison is the best way. Should we just be starting from scratch?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Well, exactly. And if you look at death row, those there’s still 550 or so condemned inmates there. They’re gradually moving them out to other maximum security prisons. And you know what? They’re not going to just knock that down. I mean, maybe that would be the best thing to do. But they’re not. They’re going to make some revisions to it. But certainly housing and space in general is an opportunity, but also a huge challenge, not just at San Quentin, but, you know, across the system. And so there are those who say, well, geez, maybe there’s something better to to use this money in different ways, spread it out across different institutions. You know, just about 5% of all the people who are incarcerated in California are at San Quentin. And I think what we’re going to see is sort of a quote unquote, cream of the crop come to San Quentin, those who really are motivated to change, to learn skills and so on. And those who aren’t are going to go to some of these other prisons that don’t have these programs, or at least not in the numbers that they’ve had them at Quentin for so long.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> Yeah. All right. Well, we will keep watching that. I know you will and I will as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Yeah, absolutely. All right. We’re going to take a short break. And when we return, we’re going to be joined by L.A. Times reporter Mackenzie Mays. She’s been covering the politics around LGBTQ issues and other cultural issues that are roiling local school districts in California. You’re listening to Political Breakdown from KQED Public Radio.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Welcome back to Political Breakdown. I’m Scott Shafer here with Marisa Lagos. And we’re going to turn to the fights over curriculum and how to treat students who identify as transgender that have roiled local school districts and captured the attention of state officials like Governor Gavin Newsom and state Superintendent Tony Thurmond. Los Angeles Times, state government and politics reporter Mackenzie Mays has been covering these dustups and she joins us now from Sacramento. Hey, Mackenzie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> Hey, how are you?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Doing well. So, you know, we’ve been hearing about these kinds of issues really for almost years, but it’s mostly been in red states like Florida and Texas, you know, limiting what teachers can say, that kind of thing. Parental rights fights. It seems like this is relatively new to California. Is that is that your take?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> I would say that it feels new in California because it’s one of the only pathways to sort of power over policy that Republicans have. Right. They can’t get policy change in either house of the state legislature. As you know, we have a governor who’s a Democrat. So we had foreseen that, you know, Republicans were trying to stack local school boards. And so depending on what city and what school they represent, that is a way that they can have some power over policy. So I think that’s why it feels so different in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> Do you feel like any of this came out of the kind of parent anger we saw around COVID closures? Because it seems and mask mandates and all that because while this has become more of a right left issue, I mean, that did galvanize a lot of parents kind of across the political spectrum.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> Yeah, Yeah, definitely. I mean, I sort of wrote about this last year where we knew that, you know, they they were promising a quote unquote, red wave for school boards in California. We didn’t see that, you know, but in the communities where it did happen, it’s, you know, playing out in the ways that we’re seeing now in Temecula and Chino. And that parental rights slogan is something that’s not happening in California but is like a right talking point across the nation. And I think it sprung out of out of COVID frustrations and school frustrations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> And to what extent do you think this is being driven by religion? You know, conservative churches that have supported harsher policies around things like LGBTQ rights? Are they weighing in in this way with school districts as well?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> Yeah, actually, I you know, I’ve covered a lot of school board meetings in my in my day. I’ve covered them in Fresno and in the South. And even for me, watching the meeting in Temecula was really something. You know, I had said there was lots of God and lots of gabble. You know, there were Bible scriptures quoted there. You know, God came up a lot like it’s not really something that anyone’s trying to hide. Now, whether or not they’re they’re doing that in schools. Like, I think they understand the rules about church and state and all of that. But this is a board meeting where they can say other things. And I actually watched a sermon in a conservative church in Temecula afterward, and they invited some of the school board members to, you know, the sermon. And, you know, it is a church and only two of the three could come, otherwise they would violate —\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> The Brown Act! That’s so interesting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> Yeah. It’s getting it’s getting pretty you know, it’s just. Yeah, that that’s safe to say for sure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> So let’s let’s talk about Temecula. You were down there. This is a school board. We should mention that I believe three the three majority members that are kind of proposing and supporting a lot of these controversial things were, I think, recruited by a local pastor to run. And they started off in the spring by banning critical race theory. Was that did that even get on your radar or was that kind of more of a local conversation?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> I mean, the CRT thing has been on my radar for a while and it gets really confusing because often what some opponents say is CRT isn’t even actually that right. So it gets really tricky about what sort of history lessons they want to teach and what they don’t. But it’s pretty own brand we see, you know, it didn’t take long for us to go from textbooks to in another city. It was about transgender and youth rights. And CRT sort of falls right in there with those topics.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Another big skirmish down in Temecula, of course, was over gay rights hero Harvey Milk in school lessons and Governor Newsom’s reaction to that. The school district was calling milk a pedophile, which is ridiculous. And the governor reacted strongly, said he’s going to send textbooks down there. Talk about how that played out, how the governor responded and where things are now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I think, you know, it’s pretty rare in California for a governor to insert himself, I guess, in a local school board. If you we if you talk to school board officials across the state and teachers, all you hear about is local control because California is so big. So California sets the laws and the standards and everybody’s pretty up front about how hard it is to actually regulate and enforce those. So to see a governor say, “You can’t do this, and if you do this, I’m going to make sure that I fine you” was really interesting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And he had a lot of supporters saying, yes, like you need to step in because they’re not doing the right thing. But he also had a lot of critics saying, we don’t know if you’re doing this because it’s sound policy or if it’s better for your political profile because, you know, that’s the side you want to be on in the culture wars, if you’re Newsom, right? and so I think, you know, we’re all waiting to see how it will play out. There’s a lot of questions about like, okay, what happens when this happens again? You know, will we see that same sort of attention that some people thought was outsized in this situation?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> What I mean, we’re reading about this from here. We talked about this last week on the show, but we should explain to folks that essentially the school board tried to reject a state approved curriculum that included some supplemental materials, mentioning Harvey Milk. They sort of since backed off. What is your sense, though? Like is this is this splitting the community down there that is a relatively purple district, I believe, or is it are people there supportive of it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> Well, I mean, we know there were enough people there to vote the board members and that support it, and that’s a majority of the board. So we know that. But I also talk to parents, you know, this this meeting went on for like 9 hours and went past midnight. And there were parents who opposed it, too, and teachers, too. And some of the folks that oppose the conservative majority and support the Harvey Milk text say that a lot of the drama that they’re seeing at school board meetings is like outside agitators, they call them. They’re like, they’re not parents, they’re not even voters. They’re just sort of glomming on to this big sort of conservative issue without really having a stake in the school board, which is really interesting and all sorts of things that have like little to do with schools kept coming up at the school board meeting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I thought it was really interesting. Like there’s a like sex trafficking would come up a few times in that movie that’s a big on like right wing talking point right now. You know, the just certain things that usually, you know, the one of the —\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> There’s a media bubble that a lot of people live in that not everybody understands what they’re talking about.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Which silo were you in?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> Yeah, Yeah. I mean, one of the one of the parents who is actually hoping to work on a recall effort to recall the majority conservative majority on the board, said that their slogan is make school board, make school board meetings boring again. Okay. They used to be really boring about budgets and stuff, and now they’ve become something else.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Yeah, well, you know, of course, Governor Newsom, before all this happened, has been very critical of states like Florida and especially Governor Ron DeSantis with the, you know, don’t say gay bill and some of the other things he’s doing down there around transgender rights. And, you know, now we’re hearing from Temecula and Chino that, hey, this is, you know, the governor interfering with local control. So how is what Newsom is doing different from what DeSantis is doing and got criticized for by Newsom?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I actually I talked to an attorney who compared the two, and I’m sure Newsom does not like ever being compared to DeSantis. As we know, they’re sort of like arch nemeses and just constant rivals. But to Newsom’s point, he would say, you know, the school board’s breaking the law. We have laws that say you must teach LGBT history. We have laws about comprehensive sex ed, laws about ethnic studies. I mean, California has all of the laws already when it comes to textbooks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so he could say, you know, this isn’t the same because what DeSantis is doing is sort of the opposite and some would argue is illegal over that way, too, because, you know, depending on what you’re allowing a teacher to teach or a school board official to push, so and I talked to his office and they said, you know, just because we believe in local control and deferring to communities about what’s best for them doesn’t mean you can break the law. You know, those are two different things, is what they say.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> Do you think, though, that like there are potential pitfalls for Democrats for pushing back because like we’re talking about local control? I mean, that is something that has been championed to some extent by both kind of wings of of the political system here in California as being important. Right. That you want people to have that buy-in. So do you feel like there’s either political or practical kind of pitfalls when the state tries to come in and push these things?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> I think the potential pitfall and it’s something that’s come up in conversations a lot is what happens when the shoe is on the other foot, so to speak. So like there are liberal school boards who have said, we don’t want to teach these texts. And it may be because they use a racial slur or something like that, but the texts are like, you know, otherwise literary, like, you know, all of us read them. And so I guess the pitfall could be, you know, will you be treating a district with different political views the same way? I mean, I don’t know if that would be violating. You know, they could pick a different book and still stay in the standards. They just might not want one book. And that’s ultimately actually what Temecula ended up doing. You know, they are following the law now. They just didn’t choose the Harvey Milk book after all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer: \u003c/strong>Well, another issue in the culture wars bubbled up in Chino Valley School Board. That’s another school district in the Inland Empire, this one in San Bernardino County. And the issue is not books, but transgender kids. Tell us about that, how it played out and you know why Tony Thurmond, the school superintendent, you know, decided to go down there and address them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> He won’t talk to any of us!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> When you see something like that happen, only a couple of days after something like this happened, you do start to think, wait a second, is there a pattern happening? But there the school board voted for like what they call a parental notification system. So if a kid is transgender or identifies in a way that they say is not on their birth certificate as far as the pronouns that they want to use a bathroom, that’s different from what they used to be using, they’re going to notify their parents. So the conservative majority on that school board and the parents that support it say parents should know everything about their kids. That’s their right. And then gay rights advocates say this is really dangerous because the very kids that may not tell their parents might not feel safe and not be in homes where they feel safe to do that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And so you’re taking away from them this like sort of safe haven that they think a school should be by what they say would be outing them against their will. And so another potential pitfalls. Like everybody’s like, where’s Gavin on this? You know, it’s kind of hard for the governor to choose to be involved in one and not in this one. And we do know that that state lawmakers have already said, hey, we’re going to we’re going to work on something, write up a bill to to make sure that this doesn’t happen, because right now that that policy is approved and it’s, you know, that’s in play there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> Before we talk, I do want to talk about Tony Thurmond, but you mention Newsom. And I do think that I mean, this feels like a stickier issue for him. I think it was very easy for him to come out swinging when Harvey Milk was accused of being a pedophile. But parental notification is not quite as clean of a line for for liberals, I would imagine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> Yeah. I mean, it’s all about the language, too. Parental notification, parental rights know, that’s sort of a cultural term that’s really hard for anybody to disagree with. It’s more one of those things that you need to drill down and understand what somebody means when they say that because it’s such an umbrella term, it’s like who would be anti-parent, you know, But you have to sort of get to what really what they mean behind that, I guess.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Yeah, Well, we have seen the legislature obviously getting activated on this. And, you know, the school board association actually seemed to take Temecula side on that school book issue. We’ve got others, you know, warning about state overreach. Corey Jackson, a freshman legislator from down that way, has got a bill coming up around all this. Like where how do you see this shaking out in the legislature? And do we see more of those same fault lines that Marisa and you just talked about regarding like books versus parental notification?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> No. I mean, everyone I’ve talked to about the textbook law, at least, is like that. That bill is good as gold. So that bill before was a flop. I had talked to Jackson about it. It didn’t have support from important people like CTA or CCPA because it was became a local control issue. But the governors sort of swooped in and has made it his bill in a way, and immediately had tacked on support from leadership in the legislature. So everyone’s like, Yeah, that’s going to happen. There’s not really going to be a I don’t think there’s going to be a big divide there. And as you know, we have, you know, supermajorities of Democrats in the legislature. We’ll have to wait to see what the other issue, what the other bill looks like and if the old, you know, stand up against some, I guess, tougher criticism than this textbook bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I know we just have you for a few more minutes, Mackenzie. I do want to ask the state superintendent, Tony Thurmond kind of shouted down out of that Chino Valley School board meeting. He says he was kicked out. It looked like he was kind of asked to leave maybe after his public comment. But I made a joke about Thurmond. I mean, he has not been super accessible, I think, to the press or the public in a lot of ways. Do you think he’s trying to kind of burnishes his credentials politically with all of this and and what role does he actually have a superintendent?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> I mean, people in Sacramento definitely viewed it that way. He’s running for governor. Well, he had just announced that he, you know, is considering a run for governor and that he had opened a committee. So to see him, you know, stand up and talk in public. You know, he signed up as just like sort of like a layman, like a normal member of the public. It’s really kind of wild to see the state superintendent of all the schools in California just sort of show up there instead of like have you know, it kind of tells me that they weren’t working together, something on that issue. He was quick to tweet about it afterward and is angry with that district. And he did say he was ejected. And I watched the tape and I saw that police were talking to him at the podium afterward. But I also just saw just a few minutes ago that the school district put out a statement saying that that he wasn’t ejected. And now they’re angry with him for saying that he was.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> ‘We wish he’d kept talking.’\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> Yeah, it’s hard to it’s hard not to see, you know, it through a political lens.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Yeah, of course. And of course, all this, you know, if you look at the broader politics, it’s playing out at a time that the legislature is trying to repeal the Prop eight, which passed in 2008 banning same sex marriage, Of course, that’s already been resolved through the courts. So it’s kind of symbolic. But, you know, we also have, you know, talk about repealing the travel ban to states which have anti LGBTQ politics and laws. So what do you make of the fact that all of this is coming up right now? I mean, is this just part is this in some way tied to 2024, do you think?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> I think that it’s that local piece again, I think because, I mean, California has the strongest LGBT rights and protections, like you just mentioned as a state, right. But I think to see this, it’s because it’s kind of the only way we can see them wedge through. Like maybe you might see this on a city council in a certain city or a board, a supes or something. But usually, you know, this is kind of as hyperlocal as it gets. And so I think that’s where we’re that’s sort of the only way it pokes through in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/strong> Final question before we let you go. I mean, the president has even been talking about this. We’ve seen him kind of linking the abortion SCOTUS decision and MAGA extremists to book bans. I know there’s a civil rights investigation by the Department of Education into whether Texas school district’s sweeping removal of LGBT themed books constitutes discrimination. We always talk about California leading the nation, are we are we going to be leaders here Mackenzie? What do we what do we expect in the coming months and in the next year on all of this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> On the textbook situation, I mean, we we sort of already are in a lot of ways. I think that’s part of the criticism too, is we already have the most stringent education standards for schools as far as diversity and inclusion goes. So I guess, you know, the governor has to follow through on this law, obviously, and it’ll probably be the strictest sort of form of regulation we’ve seen. And again, it will put California as sort of the antithesis of these red states, which is something we see Newsom do a lot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> And, of course, all this is happening in during summer break. Right? Right. So the kids aren’t even in school and they’re all arguing about the kids. All right. Mackenzie Mays from the Los Angeles Times, thank you so much for joining us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mackenzie Mays:\u003c/strong> Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">Updated 1:30 p.m., Friday\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San Quentin, California’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/facility-locator/sq/\">oldest state prison\u003c/a>, and among its most notorious, will be transformed into a rehabilitative facility, where incarcerated people at lower risk of misconduct can receive education and training in preparation for their release, Gov. Gavin Newsom announced Friday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Under the proposal, the Marin County lockup, which currently \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/research/wp-content/uploads/sites/174/2023/03/Tpop1d230315.pdf\">incarcerates about 3,900 people\u003c/a>, including 546 on death row, will be transformed by 2025 into what Newsom hopes will be a world-class rehabilitation center based loosely on a Scandinavian model of incarceration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We want to be the preeminent restorative justice facility in the world — that’s the goal,” Newsom said Friday, \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo1caB_7Sok\">during a visit to the prison\u003c/a>, which he said will be renamed the San Quentin Rehabilitation Center.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Full details of the plan were not immediately clear, but Newsom said it would build on the innovative programs San Quentin is already known for, such as an accredited junior college and an \u003ca href=\"https://sanquentinnews.com/\">award-winning newspaper\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.earhustlesq.com/\">podcast\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The new direction — which Newsom dubbed the “California Model” — will be aimed at ensuring people inside the prison receive the tools and resources they need — from therapy to education and job training — to succeed in the outside world and steer clear of additional criminal behavior, he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The transformation will be data-driven, Newsom said, and inspired by “wildly successful” approaches in places like Norway, which has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/science-norway-europe-oslo-crime-bdd56073c42dc2066640095d7e62b048\">maximum-security Norwegian prisons\u003c/a>, cells often look more like dorm rooms with additional furniture such as chairs, desks and even TVs, and incarcerated people have access to kitchens and activities like basketball.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The announcement comes \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11732471/gov-newsom-to-end-death-penalty-by-executive-order-political-fallout-likely\">four years after Newsom declared a moratorium on the death penalty in California\u003c/a>, with all remaining people on San Quentin’s death row \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/california-death-row-closed-prisons-gavin-newsom-d59ae606239abadb2dfa03be71e54649\">slated to eventually be transferred\u003c/a> to other prisons in the state.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Sentences are not being changed, I want to make that crystal clear,” said Newsom, a staunch opponent of the death penalty. He noted that those currently on San Quentin’s death row will be assessed individually to determine risk of violent behavior, with the goal of integrating them all into the general prison population by the end of 2024.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California’s prison population has been falling for years, the result of criminal justice reforms instituted after the U.S. Supreme Court in 2011 \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2011/05/23/136579580/california-is-ordered-to-cut-its-prison-population\">ordered the state to slim down its overcrowded lockups\u003c/a>. Newsom already shut down one prison in 2021, with a second scheduled to shutter this summer and a third set to close by 2025.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=news_11888753,news_11942302 \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">align\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">='\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">left' \u003c/span> label='More on the history of San Quentin']Just the first two closures will save the state about $300 million a year, officials estimate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Newsom’s attempted transformation of San Quentin — a facility located on a scenic point jutting into the San Francisco Bay, in one of the wealthiest areas of the state — will be his most visible prison reform to date.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The prison, which has the largest death row population in the country, is widely recognized for having housed a slew of high-profile people convicted of heinous offenses, including cult leader Charles Manson and Scott Peterson, and was the site of violent uprisings in the 1960s and ’70s. More recently, however, the facility has garnered attention for adopting some of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.neh.gov/about/awards/national-humanities-medals/prison-university-project#:~:text=The%20Prison%20University%20Project%20at,earn%20college%20credits%2C%20tuition%20free.\">most innovative prison education and training programs\u003c/a> in the nation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re making progress. But we’re not doing justice to the ‘R’ in ‘CDCR,’” Newsom said, referring to the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, which oversees the state’s sprawling prison system. “We have to be in the homecoming business. It’s not just about rehabilitation, it’s about homecoming. You want folks coming back feeling better.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although California’s recidivism rate has declined in recent years, it remains stubbornly high: \u003ca href=\"https://www.bsa.ca.gov/pdfs/reports/2018-113.pdf\">On average nearly 50% of people who leave the prison system reoffend\u003c/a>, according to a 2019 state audit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Where’s the public safety in that?” said Newsom. He noted that 800 people are released from San Quentin every year, and the primary goal should be keeping them from committing another crime and ending back in the system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Supporters of criminal justice reform cheered the announcement. Among them was Jay Jordan, CEO of the Alliance for Safety and Justice, a national network of crime survivors that advocates for less incarceration and more support for both criminal offenders and victims.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jordan spent years in California prisons after being convicted of robbery at the age of 18. Behind bars, he was able to receive therapy for the first time in his life, and that alone helped change everything, he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Making San Quentin an institution entirely dedicated to providing that kind of support marks a huge shift in California’s approach to punishment and rehabilitation, Jordan added.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It signifies that we’re turning a new page in California’s history. We’re not just going to warehouse people in prison and then they get out and they’re not successful,” he said. “We’re actually going to have solutions where people … are going to places to get what they need to stop the cycle of crime.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Many of the details remain to be worked out, including specific timelines and how to physically transform a 171-year-old building full of concrete cells and outdated buildings into a rehabilitative space. Newsom included $20 million in his January budget proposal to aid in San Quentin’s transition, and he plans to name a group of experts to oversee the changes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dan Seeman, who advised both Newsom and his predecessor, Gov. Jerry Brown, on criminal justice policy, said the plan will not only save money but eventually make California safer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You close the prisons — but this is the next step to make sure it’s successful,” he said. “We have the ability, due to the lower population, to realize savings from prison closures, but that in and of itself can’t be the only approach. We have to pair it with efforts to reduce recidivism, and initiatives like this are ways to do that at relatively low cost to taxpayers.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Seeman said the Norway model Newsom is so inspired by is based on a wholly different philosophy of incarceration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think in other countries such as Norway, they view the loss of liberty as the punishment,” he said. “They’re more intentional about what is done during folks’ time in custody to make sure they come out better neighbors and productive members of society.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That means using the time people spend behind bars to help them move past all the things that drove them to commit crimes in the first place, he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Correction (March 17): This story originally stated there were nearly 700 people on death row in San Quentin. In fact, there are currently a total of 668 people — including 21 women — on death row in all of California. Of those, 546 men are now on San Quentin’s death row. Since the \u003ca href=\"https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_66,_Death_Penalty_Procedures_(2016)\">passage of Proposition 66\u003c/a> in 2016, 101 other people formerly on death row have been transferred to other institutions. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This story includes reporting from KQED’s Matthew Green and The Associated Press.\u003c/i>\u003cbr>\n[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">Updated 1:30 p.m., Friday\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San Quentin, California’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/facility-locator/sq/\">oldest state prison\u003c/a>, and among its most notorious, will be transformed into a rehabilitative facility, where incarcerated people at lower risk of misconduct can receive education and training in preparation for their release, Gov. Gavin Newsom announced Friday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Under the proposal, the Marin County lockup, which currently \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/research/wp-content/uploads/sites/174/2023/03/Tpop1d230315.pdf\">incarcerates about 3,900 people\u003c/a>, including 546 on death row, will be transformed by 2025 into what Newsom hopes will be a world-class rehabilitation center based loosely on a Scandinavian model of incarceration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We want to be the preeminent restorative justice facility in the world — that’s the goal,” Newsom said Friday, \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo1caB_7Sok\">during a visit to the prison\u003c/a>, which he said will be renamed the San Quentin Rehabilitation Center.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Full details of the plan were not immediately clear, but Newsom said it would build on the innovative programs San Quentin is already known for, such as an accredited junior college and an \u003ca href=\"https://sanquentinnews.com/\">award-winning newspaper\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.earhustlesq.com/\">podcast\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The new direction — which Newsom dubbed the “California Model” — will be aimed at ensuring people inside the prison receive the tools and resources they need — from therapy to education and job training — to succeed in the outside world and steer clear of additional criminal behavior, he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The transformation will be data-driven, Newsom said, and inspired by “wildly successful” approaches in places like Norway, which has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/science-norway-europe-oslo-crime-bdd56073c42dc2066640095d7e62b048\">maximum-security Norwegian prisons\u003c/a>, cells often look more like dorm rooms with additional furniture such as chairs, desks and even TVs, and incarcerated people have access to kitchens and activities like basketball.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The announcement comes \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11732471/gov-newsom-to-end-death-penalty-by-executive-order-political-fallout-likely\">four years after Newsom declared a moratorium on the death penalty in California\u003c/a>, with all remaining people on San Quentin’s death row \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/california-death-row-closed-prisons-gavin-newsom-d59ae606239abadb2dfa03be71e54649\">slated to eventually be transferred\u003c/a> to other prisons in the state.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Sentences are not being changed, I want to make that crystal clear,” said Newsom, a staunch opponent of the death penalty. He noted that those currently on San Quentin’s death row will be assessed individually to determine risk of violent behavior, with the goal of integrating them all into the general prison population by the end of 2024.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California’s prison population has been falling for years, the result of criminal justice reforms instituted after the U.S. Supreme Court in 2011 \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2011/05/23/136579580/california-is-ordered-to-cut-its-prison-population\">ordered the state to slim down its overcrowded lockups\u003c/a>. Newsom already shut down one prison in 2021, with a second scheduled to shutter this summer and a third set to close by 2025.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Just the first two closures will save the state about $300 million a year, officials estimate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Newsom’s attempted transformation of San Quentin — a facility located on a scenic point jutting into the San Francisco Bay, in one of the wealthiest areas of the state — will be his most visible prison reform to date.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The prison, which has the largest death row population in the country, is widely recognized for having housed a slew of high-profile people convicted of heinous offenses, including cult leader Charles Manson and Scott Peterson, and was the site of violent uprisings in the 1960s and ’70s. More recently, however, the facility has garnered attention for adopting some of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.neh.gov/about/awards/national-humanities-medals/prison-university-project#:~:text=The%20Prison%20University%20Project%20at,earn%20college%20credits%2C%20tuition%20free.\">most innovative prison education and training programs\u003c/a> in the nation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re making progress. But we’re not doing justice to the ‘R’ in ‘CDCR,’” Newsom said, referring to the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, which oversees the state’s sprawling prison system. “We have to be in the homecoming business. It’s not just about rehabilitation, it’s about homecoming. You want folks coming back feeling better.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although California’s recidivism rate has declined in recent years, it remains stubbornly high: \u003ca href=\"https://www.bsa.ca.gov/pdfs/reports/2018-113.pdf\">On average nearly 50% of people who leave the prison system reoffend\u003c/a>, according to a 2019 state audit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Where’s the public safety in that?” said Newsom. He noted that 800 people are released from San Quentin every year, and the primary goal should be keeping them from committing another crime and ending back in the system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Supporters of criminal justice reform cheered the announcement. Among them was Jay Jordan, CEO of the Alliance for Safety and Justice, a national network of crime survivors that advocates for less incarceration and more support for both criminal offenders and victims.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jordan spent years in California prisons after being convicted of robbery at the age of 18. Behind bars, he was able to receive therapy for the first time in his life, and that alone helped change everything, he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Making San Quentin an institution entirely dedicated to providing that kind of support marks a huge shift in California’s approach to punishment and rehabilitation, Jordan added.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It signifies that we’re turning a new page in California’s history. We’re not just going to warehouse people in prison and then they get out and they’re not successful,” he said. “We’re actually going to have solutions where people … are going to places to get what they need to stop the cycle of crime.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Many of the details remain to be worked out, including specific timelines and how to physically transform a 171-year-old building full of concrete cells and outdated buildings into a rehabilitative space. Newsom included $20 million in his January budget proposal to aid in San Quentin’s transition, and he plans to name a group of experts to oversee the changes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dan Seeman, who advised both Newsom and his predecessor, Gov. Jerry Brown, on criminal justice policy, said the plan will not only save money but eventually make California safer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You close the prisons — but this is the next step to make sure it’s successful,” he said. “We have the ability, due to the lower population, to realize savings from prison closures, but that in and of itself can’t be the only approach. We have to pair it with efforts to reduce recidivism, and initiatives like this are ways to do that at relatively low cost to taxpayers.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Seeman said the Norway model Newsom is so inspired by is based on a wholly different philosophy of incarceration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think in other countries such as Norway, they view the loss of liberty as the punishment,” he said. “They’re more intentional about what is done during folks’ time in custody to make sure they come out better neighbors and productive members of society.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That means using the time people spend behind bars to help them move past all the things that drove them to commit crimes in the first place, he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Correction (March 17): This story originally stated there were nearly 700 people on death row in San Quentin. In fact, there are currently a total of 668 people — including 21 women — on death row in all of California. Of those, 546 men are now on San Quentin’s death row. Since the \u003ca href=\"https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_66,_Death_Penalty_Procedures_(2016)\">passage of Proposition 66\u003c/a> in 2016, 101 other people formerly on death row have been transferred to other institutions. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This story includes reporting from KQED’s Matthew Green and The Associated Press.\u003c/i>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The National AIDS Memorial Grove in San Francisco’s Golden Gate Park is the nation’s first and only federally designated memorial of those who have died of AIDS (though ironically, it doesn’t receive federal funding.) The folks behind it say its existence is not just about remembering those who’ve died, but also the activism of the queer community who stepped up when the government wouldn’t. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This story is part of the Bay Curious series “\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11915065/take-a-very-curious-golden-gate-park-walking-tour\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A Very Curious Walking Tour of Golden Gate Park\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.” It \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11915788/healing-in-nature-at-the-aids-memorial-grove\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">originally aired\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> on June 3, 2022.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://bit.ly/3Ahhy3h\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Episode Transcript \u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC4434585521\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In California, the death penalty is in limbo. On the one hand, the state hasn’t executed anyone since 2006. On the other, the death penalty in still legal. In practice, this means that hundreds of incarcerated people have been languishing on death for row years, even decades.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Timothy James Young, who’s on death row at San Quentin State Prison, believes he was wrongfully convicted of murder and still hopes that someday he will be freed. And he has reason to hope: over the last few years, a garden project with UC Santa Cruz has snowballed into a full-blown campaign by students and faculty to exonerate him.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Guest: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/chloeveltman\">Chloe Veltman\u003c/a>, KQED arts and culture reporter\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://bit.ly/3R8SlhM\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Episode Transcript\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC8626454375&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11904934/dismantling-death-row-at-san-quentin-state-prison\">California Will Close Death Row at San Quentin. The Next Steps Are More Complicated\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://t.co/OOndMMwb4O\">How a Garden at UC Santa Cruz Led to an Exoneration Campaign for a Man on Death Row\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoDy1jgVVxo\">‘I Am More: The Story of Tim Young’\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In California, the death penalty is in limbo. On the one hand, the state hasn’t executed anyone since 2006. On the other, the death penalty in still legal. In practice, this means that hundreds of incarcerated people have been languishing on death for row years, even decades.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Timothy James Young, who’s on death row at San Quentin State Prison, believes he was wrongfully convicted of murder and still hopes that someday he will be freed. And he has reason to hope: over the last few years, a garden project with UC Santa Cruz has snowballed into a full-blown campaign by students and faculty to exonerate him.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Guest: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/chloeveltman\">Chloe Veltman\u003c/a>, KQED arts and culture reporter\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://bit.ly/3R8SlhM\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Episode Transcript\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC8626454375&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11904934/dismantling-death-row-at-san-quentin-state-prison\">California Will Close Death Row at San Quentin. The Next Steps Are More Complicated\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://t.co/OOndMMwb4O\">How a Garden at UC Santa Cruz Led to an Exoneration Campaign for a Man on Death Row\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoDy1jgVVxo\">‘I Am More: The Story of Tim Young’\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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},
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"info": "KQED’s statewide radio news program providing daily coverage of issues, trends and public policy decisions.",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/californiareport",
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"order": 8
},
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},
"link": "https://www.cityarts.net",
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"order": 1
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"info": "\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em>, which listeners will hear in the first part of the hour, has fearless and much-needed conversations about race. Hosted by journalists of color, the show tackles the subject of race head-on, exploring how it impacts every part of society — from politics and pop culture to history, sports and more.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em>, which will be in the second part of the hour, guides you through spaces and feelings no one prepares you for — from finances to mental health, from workplace microaggressions to imposter syndrome, from relationships to parenting. The show features experts with real world experience and shares their knowledge. Because everyone needs a little help being human.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510312/codeswitch\">\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/lifekit\">\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />",
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"id": "commonwealth-club",
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"info": "KQED’s live call-in program discussing local, state, national and international issues, as well as in-depth interviews.",
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"order": 9
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"meta": {
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"source": "WNYC"
},
"link": "/radio/program/freakonomics-radio",
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},
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"id": "fresh-air",
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"hidden-brain": {
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"source": "NPR"
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"how-i-built-this": {
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"airtime": "SUN 7:30pm-8pm",
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"hyphenacion": {
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"tagline": "Where conversation and cultura meet",
"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
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},
"jerrybrown": {
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"title": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown",
"tagline": "Lessons from a lifetime in politics",
"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game – and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
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"order": 18
},
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},
"latino-usa": {
"id": "latino-usa",
"title": "Latino USA",
"airtime": "MON 1am-2am, SUN 6pm-7pm",
"info": "Latino USA, the radio journal of news and culture, is the only national, English-language radio program produced from a Latino perspective.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/latinoUsa.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://latinousa.org/",
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"link": "/radio/program/latino-usa",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=79681317&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510016/podcast.xml"
}
},
"marketplace": {
"id": "marketplace",
"title": "Marketplace",
"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 4pm-4:30pm, MON-WED 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Marketplace-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.marketplace.org/",
"meta": {
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"source": "American Public Media"
},
"link": "/radio/program/marketplace",
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},
"masters-of-scale": {
"id": "masters-of-scale",
"title": "Masters of Scale",
"info": "Masters of Scale is an original podcast in which LinkedIn co-founder and Greylock Partner Reid Hoffman sets out to describe and prove theories that explain how great entrepreneurs take their companies from zero to a gazillion in ingenious fashion.",
"airtime": "Every other Wednesday June 12 through October 16 at 8pm (repeats Thursdays at 2am)",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "https://mastersofscale.com/",
"meta": {
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"source": "WaitWhat"
},
"link": "/radio/program/masters-of-scale",
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"rss": "https://rss.art19.com/masters-of-scale"
}
},
"mindshift": {
"id": "mindshift",
"title": "MindShift",
"tagline": "A podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids",
"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED MindShift: How We Will Learn",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/mindshift/",
"meta": {
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 12
},
"link": "/podcasts/mindshift",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5",
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},
"morning-edition": {
"id": "morning-edition",
"title": "Morning Edition",
"info": "\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. Hosts Steve Inskeep, David Greene and Rachel Martin bring you the latest breaking news and features to prepare you for the day.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 3am-9am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Morning-Edition-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/programs/morning-edition/",
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"link": "/radio/program/morning-edition"
},
"onourwatch": {
"id": "onourwatch",
"title": "On Our Watch",
"tagline": "Deeply-reported investigative journalism",
"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/On-Our-Watch-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "On Our Watch from NPR and KQED",
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