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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/ai\">Artificial intelligence\u003c/a> is making life easier for some — and a lot harder for others. San Francisco-based AI firm Anthropic — which also developed the chatbot Claude — earlier this month released Mythos, a powerful model \u003ca href=\"https://red.anthropic.com/2026/mythos-preview/\">developers claim\u003c/a> can identify and exploit “vulnerabilities in every major operating system and every major web browser when directed by a user to do so.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Anthropic has only given a few companies — among them JPMorgan Chase, cybersecurity giant CrowdStrike and fellow AI developers Google and Amazon — access to Mythos as part of what it’s calling “Project Glasswing.” The goal of this partnership, Anthropic \u003ca href=\"https://www.anthropic.com/glasswing\">said\u003c/a>, is to use Mythos to prevent hackers (who \u003ca href=\"https://www.axios.com/2025/11/13/anthropic-china-claude-code-cyberattack\">are using\u003c/a> their own powerful AI models) from targeting the weak spots in the software that helps these massive corporations run.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But despite the high level of secrecy surrounding its model, Anthropic confirmed to KQED on Thursday that it is currently investigating a report of “unauthorized access” to Mythos through one of the third-party vendors helping develop the software. The company has not found any evidence yet that Anthropic systems have been affected or that the reported activity extends beyond the third-party vendor environment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even before this latest incident, \u003ca href=\"https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mythos-anthropic-ai-explainer-9.7171597\">multiple cybersecurity experts\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/bessent-powell-warn-bank-ceos-about-anthropic-model-risks-bloomberg-news-reports-2026-04-10/\">global leaders\u003c/a> raised concerns about the power of Mythos and the potential consequences if this software fell into the wrong hands.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Earlier this week, KQED’s Forum \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101913607/anthropics-new-ai-mythos-is-a-cybersecurity-game-changer\">spoke with\u003c/a> Alex Stamos, computer science lecturer at Stanford University and chief product officer for San Francisco-based AI firm Corridor, to understand why developers still move forward with creating such powerful technology despite the potential risks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Keep reading for the takeaways from his conversation with KQED’s Mina Kim, including insights on how folks who are not software engineers can sift through all the buzz surrounding this quickly evolving technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Skip ahead to:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#WhyarecybersecurityexpertssoworriedaboutMythos\">Why are cybersecurity experts so worried about Mythos?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#WhywouldAnthropiclimitwhocanusethistechnology\">Why would Anthropic limit who can use this technology?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#IsthefederalgovernmentalsousingMythos\">Is the federal government also using Mythos?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#Whyusesuchapowerfulbutunpredictabletechnologyatall\">Why use such a powerful — but unpredictable — technology at all?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This conversation has been edited for length and clarity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mina Kim: What is Mythos capable of?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Stamos:\u003c/strong> Mythos is a model that Anthropic has not released publicly. They’ve provided it to a very small number of large companies to use privately, as well as to some very important open-source projects to use.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Anthropic believes Mythos marks a large-scale change from the AI capabilities that have existed in the past. They’ve now been able to find thousands of vulnerabilities instead of just dozens or hundreds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What we’ve seen in the past is that these things are really good at finding bugs, and they’re much faster than humans. But now Mythos is even better than the best human security consultants and security engineers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081283\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12081283\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AnthropicAP.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AnthropicAP.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AnthropicAP-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AnthropicAP-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Anthropic website and the company’s logo are displayed on a computer screen in New York on Feb. 26, 2026. \u003ccite>(Patrick Sison/AP Photo)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"WhyarecybersecurityexpertssoworriedaboutMythos\">\u003c/a>You’re describing an incredible tool to find bugs, holes and issues that we have not seen before so that we can defend against them. So why is it scaring people so much?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s scaring people because the first step in attacking a system is finding flaws in that system. In the cybersecurity world, we use a term called the kill chain. This is a term we borrowed from the military.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When the military uses it, it refers to discovering an asset, doing reconnaissance, and figuring out how to deliver a weapon on a target.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the cyber world, the kill chain involves reconnaissance, finding a flaw in a system used by a target, weaponizing that flaw, delivering the exploit, establishing command and control of the system, exploring the network, moving through it, and then doing whatever you want — whether that’s stealing data, shutting down a system, or encrypting it for ransom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Major AI companies, like Anthropic and OpenAI, have released threat reports — building on earlier efforts from companies like Facebook and Google— that show how people use these platforms for malicious activity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Those reports show that advanced threat actors are using AI to automate other parts of the attack process, like exploring networks, breaking in and establishing control channels.[aside postID=news_12076608 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/Billboard-AI-Illustration_6.jpg']What we’re seeing is attackers taking tasks that used to require human effort — and therefore had limits — and using AI to make them faster and cheaper.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>And I imagine that our ability to patch or defend against these activities pales in comparison, or am I wrong? Do the patches exist, and are they easy to implement?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is where AI can help. AI can find flaws, and it can also write patches. That’s the good news. That’s why Anthropic is providing Mythos to companies and open-source maintainers — not just to find bugs, but to fix them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What we’re trying to do as an industry right now is fix vulnerabilities before adversaries can exploit them. There’s a race underway. The most advanced models — what we call foundation models, like those from Anthropic, OpenAI and Google — are currently ahead of open-weight models, many of which are developed by Chinese companies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>A listener writes: ‘Anthropic is releasing their models as a warning, but there’s no federal or state guidelines on this. Are we close to government regulatory action at all?’\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The current administration \u003ca href=\"https://www.politico.com/news/2026/04/23/trump-picked-a-fight-with-anthropic-now-the-administration-is-backing-off-00889241\">came down on Anthropic\u003c/a> because they thought they were too ethical … Of the major AI labs, I think Anthropic is the one with the most deep-seated ethical frameworks. I think we’re fortunate that they have the models that are the best at bug-finding, and they’re setting a good standard here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"IsthefederalgovernmentalsousingMythos\">\u003c/a>Do you know the extent to which the federal government is also using Mythos to search for and patch its own security vulnerabilities?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>My understanding is that U.S. Cyber Command has been testing Mythos. Now the fascinating question is: How is the U.S. government going to use it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the National Security Agency, after the \u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/nov/01/snowden-nsa-files-surveillance-revelations-decoded#section/1\">Snowden disclosures\u003c/a>, there is the creation of this thing called the \u003ca href=\"https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/images/External%20-%20Unclassified%20VEP%20Charter%20FINAL.PDF\">Vulnerabilities Equities Process\u003c/a>, which is the process by which NSA and U.S.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079281\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1980px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079281\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1980\" height=\"1460\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c.jpg 1980w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c-160x118.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c-1536x1133.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1980px) 100vw, 1980px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Left: Anthropic co-founder and CEO Dario Amodei speaks at INBOUND 2025 on Sept. 4, 2025, in San Francisco, California. Right: Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth listens during a Pentagon briefing on April 8, 2026, in Arlington, Virginia. \u003ccite>(Chance Yeh/Getty Images for HubSpot; Andrew Harnik/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Cyber Command — which have both a defensive responsibility and an offensive responsibility — are supposed to think about if we know of a bug, do we use it against America’s enemies, or do we get it fixed to defend America?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Are they only gonna use Mythos to find bugs to be used against America’s enemies, or are they going to use it for defensive purposes? And what is Anthropic’s response going to be?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Will Anthropic put restrictions so you can only use Mythos for defensive purposes —or will they allow Mythos to be used for offensive purposes?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Can they even control that once they let them have access to it?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t know. I don’t think so. For the most part, my understanding is Anthropic’s models that the NSA is using and Cyber Command are probably running in \u003ca href=\"https://aws.amazon.com/bedrock/\">Amazon Bedrock\u003c/a> … what’s called Amazon’s top secret cloud, which means that Anthropic’s employees — at least those without top secret clearance — will not have access to any of the logs there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"WhywouldAnthropiclimitwhocanusethistechnology\">\u003c/a>A listener writes: ‘If Anthropic lacks capacity to handle Mythos right now, why release it at all? If they want big companies to evaluate it, why publicize it? Seems fishy.’\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t think it’s fishy. This is a normal part of any release process is that you have a small set of testers. They’re also improving it by doing this. Anthropic gets feedback on this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These people find bugs. They also find false positives. If Mythos finds a bug and JPMorgan Chase says, ‘This isn’t a real bug,’ then that goes back into the training set for the next build of Mythos. Anthropic, I think, truly believes they’re doing the right thing here by getting these bugs fixed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"Whyusesuchapowerfulbutunpredictabletechnologyatall\">\u003c/a>There’s really no going back once this tool is out there, right? But I can hear people asking, why even build these tools in the first place? Why are they even free to do this in the first place if they’re so dangerous and can create such havoc? Is it just inevitable?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We’re getting philosophical. This is the core conflict at the heart of Anthropic, but also other AI companies’ reason for existence … Part of the argument here is it’s just math. Once these ideas were released, it was inevitable people would have this progress.[aside postID=forum_2010101913607 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/04/GettyImages-2269887514-2000x1331.jpg']It’s not like the atomic bomb, where you have to have uranium and a huge industrial base. This just requires laptops and graphics cards. Other countries, other people, other companies will be doing it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you believe that you can build an ethical framework to do it well, then you believe that you should do it first and do it correctly. In this case, you could try to mitigate the harm by finding all these bugs and getting them fixed or fixing the software first before other people do it and actually do it harmfully.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>A listener writes: ‘You’re talking about cyberattacks on a large scale with large companies or countries. But what about me? Should I be worried about people hacking into my personal computer or phone or something?’ What can we do?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>About Mythos, nothing. That’s not something that individual people should be dealing with. The way normal people are hacked in 2026 is the same way normal people were hacked in 2016, 2006 and maybe even 1996. The number one way normal people are hacked is they use the same password in every single website all day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Get a password manager and put all your passwords in there. Have it generate random passwords and then have one really good password, and then you can write it down. I know people say don’t write down passwords, but that’s really stupid because nobody can steal the password in your pocket from Russia. If it’s in your wallet or your purse, they can’t reach from five thousand miles away and take it out of your wallet or purse. Nobody mugs you for your password.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What are we likely to see in the next couple of years with these models rolling out? What should we be prepared for in this sort of initial period?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Our product road map at Corridor is three months long right now. Because if you plan beyond three months, everything has changed in our industry. For the first time ever, technology is building technology. From a security perspective, a lot depends on which of two futures we’re living in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the optimistic future, the bug curve flattens out. The superhuman capabilities end up not inventing entirely new classes of vulnerabilities. At least the types of bugs are the kinds we’ve seen before. There’s a finite number of them, and we’re just draining the swamp.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The pessimistic future is that these new things invent things that I don’t know exist. The hard part is, I can’t really guess because I am predicting superhuman capabilities here. For superhuman models that are gonna be invented by the models that exist right now. In the pessimistic view, we are going to have to work with AI to rebuild the systems that our lives rely upon, using memory-safe and type-safe languages, using formal models.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/ai\">Artificial intelligence\u003c/a> is making life easier for some — and a lot harder for others. San Francisco-based AI firm Anthropic — which also developed the chatbot Claude — earlier this month released Mythos, a powerful model \u003ca href=\"https://red.anthropic.com/2026/mythos-preview/\">developers claim\u003c/a> can identify and exploit “vulnerabilities in every major operating system and every major web browser when directed by a user to do so.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Anthropic has only given a few companies — among them JPMorgan Chase, cybersecurity giant CrowdStrike and fellow AI developers Google and Amazon — access to Mythos as part of what it’s calling “Project Glasswing.” The goal of this partnership, Anthropic \u003ca href=\"https://www.anthropic.com/glasswing\">said\u003c/a>, is to use Mythos to prevent hackers (who \u003ca href=\"https://www.axios.com/2025/11/13/anthropic-china-claude-code-cyberattack\">are using\u003c/a> their own powerful AI models) from targeting the weak spots in the software that helps these massive corporations run.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But despite the high level of secrecy surrounding its model, Anthropic confirmed to KQED on Thursday that it is currently investigating a report of “unauthorized access” to Mythos through one of the third-party vendors helping develop the software. The company has not found any evidence yet that Anthropic systems have been affected or that the reported activity extends beyond the third-party vendor environment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even before this latest incident, \u003ca href=\"https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mythos-anthropic-ai-explainer-9.7171597\">multiple cybersecurity experts\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/bessent-powell-warn-bank-ceos-about-anthropic-model-risks-bloomberg-news-reports-2026-04-10/\">global leaders\u003c/a> raised concerns about the power of Mythos and the potential consequences if this software fell into the wrong hands.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Earlier this week, KQED’s Forum \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101913607/anthropics-new-ai-mythos-is-a-cybersecurity-game-changer\">spoke with\u003c/a> Alex Stamos, computer science lecturer at Stanford University and chief product officer for San Francisco-based AI firm Corridor, to understand why developers still move forward with creating such powerful technology despite the potential risks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Keep reading for the takeaways from his conversation with KQED’s Mina Kim, including insights on how folks who are not software engineers can sift through all the buzz surrounding this quickly evolving technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Skip ahead to:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#WhyarecybersecurityexpertssoworriedaboutMythos\">Why are cybersecurity experts so worried about Mythos?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#WhywouldAnthropiclimitwhocanusethistechnology\">Why would Anthropic limit who can use this technology?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#IsthefederalgovernmentalsousingMythos\">Is the federal government also using Mythos?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#Whyusesuchapowerfulbutunpredictabletechnologyatall\">Why use such a powerful — but unpredictable — technology at all?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This conversation has been edited for length and clarity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mina Kim: What is Mythos capable of?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Stamos:\u003c/strong> Mythos is a model that Anthropic has not released publicly. They’ve provided it to a very small number of large companies to use privately, as well as to some very important open-source projects to use.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Anthropic believes Mythos marks a large-scale change from the AI capabilities that have existed in the past. They’ve now been able to find thousands of vulnerabilities instead of just dozens or hundreds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What we’ve seen in the past is that these things are really good at finding bugs, and they’re much faster than humans. But now Mythos is even better than the best human security consultants and security engineers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081283\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12081283\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AnthropicAP.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AnthropicAP.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AnthropicAP-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AnthropicAP-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Anthropic website and the company’s logo are displayed on a computer screen in New York on Feb. 26, 2026. \u003ccite>(Patrick Sison/AP Photo)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"WhyarecybersecurityexpertssoworriedaboutMythos\">\u003c/a>You’re describing an incredible tool to find bugs, holes and issues that we have not seen before so that we can defend against them. So why is it scaring people so much?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s scaring people because the first step in attacking a system is finding flaws in that system. In the cybersecurity world, we use a term called the kill chain. This is a term we borrowed from the military.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When the military uses it, it refers to discovering an asset, doing reconnaissance, and figuring out how to deliver a weapon on a target.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the cyber world, the kill chain involves reconnaissance, finding a flaw in a system used by a target, weaponizing that flaw, delivering the exploit, establishing command and control of the system, exploring the network, moving through it, and then doing whatever you want — whether that’s stealing data, shutting down a system, or encrypting it for ransom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Major AI companies, like Anthropic and OpenAI, have released threat reports — building on earlier efforts from companies like Facebook and Google— that show how people use these platforms for malicious activity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Those reports show that advanced threat actors are using AI to automate other parts of the attack process, like exploring networks, breaking in and establishing control channels.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>What we’re seeing is attackers taking tasks that used to require human effort — and therefore had limits — and using AI to make them faster and cheaper.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>And I imagine that our ability to patch or defend against these activities pales in comparison, or am I wrong? Do the patches exist, and are they easy to implement?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is where AI can help. AI can find flaws, and it can also write patches. That’s the good news. That’s why Anthropic is providing Mythos to companies and open-source maintainers — not just to find bugs, but to fix them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What we’re trying to do as an industry right now is fix vulnerabilities before adversaries can exploit them. There’s a race underway. The most advanced models — what we call foundation models, like those from Anthropic, OpenAI and Google — are currently ahead of open-weight models, many of which are developed by Chinese companies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>A listener writes: ‘Anthropic is releasing their models as a warning, but there’s no federal or state guidelines on this. Are we close to government regulatory action at all?’\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The current administration \u003ca href=\"https://www.politico.com/news/2026/04/23/trump-picked-a-fight-with-anthropic-now-the-administration-is-backing-off-00889241\">came down on Anthropic\u003c/a> because they thought they were too ethical … Of the major AI labs, I think Anthropic is the one with the most deep-seated ethical frameworks. I think we’re fortunate that they have the models that are the best at bug-finding, and they’re setting a good standard here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"IsthefederalgovernmentalsousingMythos\">\u003c/a>Do you know the extent to which the federal government is also using Mythos to search for and patch its own security vulnerabilities?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>My understanding is that U.S. Cyber Command has been testing Mythos. Now the fascinating question is: How is the U.S. government going to use it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the National Security Agency, after the \u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/nov/01/snowden-nsa-files-surveillance-revelations-decoded#section/1\">Snowden disclosures\u003c/a>, there is the creation of this thing called the \u003ca href=\"https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/images/External%20-%20Unclassified%20VEP%20Charter%20FINAL.PDF\">Vulnerabilities Equities Process\u003c/a>, which is the process by which NSA and U.S.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079281\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1980px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079281\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1980\" height=\"1460\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c.jpg 1980w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c-160x118.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c-1536x1133.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1980px) 100vw, 1980px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Left: Anthropic co-founder and CEO Dario Amodei speaks at INBOUND 2025 on Sept. 4, 2025, in San Francisco, California. Right: Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth listens during a Pentagon briefing on April 8, 2026, in Arlington, Virginia. \u003ccite>(Chance Yeh/Getty Images for HubSpot; Andrew Harnik/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Cyber Command — which have both a defensive responsibility and an offensive responsibility — are supposed to think about if we know of a bug, do we use it against America’s enemies, or do we get it fixed to defend America?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Are they only gonna use Mythos to find bugs to be used against America’s enemies, or are they going to use it for defensive purposes? And what is Anthropic’s response going to be?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Will Anthropic put restrictions so you can only use Mythos for defensive purposes —or will they allow Mythos to be used for offensive purposes?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Can they even control that once they let them have access to it?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t know. I don’t think so. For the most part, my understanding is Anthropic’s models that the NSA is using and Cyber Command are probably running in \u003ca href=\"https://aws.amazon.com/bedrock/\">Amazon Bedrock\u003c/a> … what’s called Amazon’s top secret cloud, which means that Anthropic’s employees — at least those without top secret clearance — will not have access to any of the logs there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"WhywouldAnthropiclimitwhocanusethistechnology\">\u003c/a>A listener writes: ‘If Anthropic lacks capacity to handle Mythos right now, why release it at all? If they want big companies to evaluate it, why publicize it? Seems fishy.’\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t think it’s fishy. This is a normal part of any release process is that you have a small set of testers. They’re also improving it by doing this. Anthropic gets feedback on this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These people find bugs. They also find false positives. If Mythos finds a bug and JPMorgan Chase says, ‘This isn’t a real bug,’ then that goes back into the training set for the next build of Mythos. Anthropic, I think, truly believes they’re doing the right thing here by getting these bugs fixed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"Whyusesuchapowerfulbutunpredictabletechnologyatall\">\u003c/a>There’s really no going back once this tool is out there, right? But I can hear people asking, why even build these tools in the first place? Why are they even free to do this in the first place if they’re so dangerous and can create such havoc? Is it just inevitable?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We’re getting philosophical. This is the core conflict at the heart of Anthropic, but also other AI companies’ reason for existence … Part of the argument here is it’s just math. Once these ideas were released, it was inevitable people would have this progress.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>It’s not like the atomic bomb, where you have to have uranium and a huge industrial base. This just requires laptops and graphics cards. Other countries, other people, other companies will be doing it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you believe that you can build an ethical framework to do it well, then you believe that you should do it first and do it correctly. In this case, you could try to mitigate the harm by finding all these bugs and getting them fixed or fixing the software first before other people do it and actually do it harmfully.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>A listener writes: ‘You’re talking about cyberattacks on a large scale with large companies or countries. But what about me? Should I be worried about people hacking into my personal computer or phone or something?’ What can we do?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>About Mythos, nothing. That’s not something that individual people should be dealing with. The way normal people are hacked in 2026 is the same way normal people were hacked in 2016, 2006 and maybe even 1996. The number one way normal people are hacked is they use the same password in every single website all day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Get a password manager and put all your passwords in there. Have it generate random passwords and then have one really good password, and then you can write it down. I know people say don’t write down passwords, but that’s really stupid because nobody can steal the password in your pocket from Russia. If it’s in your wallet or your purse, they can’t reach from five thousand miles away and take it out of your wallet or purse. Nobody mugs you for your password.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What are we likely to see in the next couple of years with these models rolling out? What should we be prepared for in this sort of initial period?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Our product road map at Corridor is three months long right now. Because if you plan beyond three months, everything has changed in our industry. For the first time ever, technology is building technology. From a security perspective, a lot depends on which of two futures we’re living in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the optimistic future, the bug curve flattens out. The superhuman capabilities end up not inventing entirely new classes of vulnerabilities. At least the types of bugs are the kinds we’ve seen before. There’s a finite number of them, and we’re just draining the swamp.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The pessimistic future is that these new things invent things that I don’t know exist. The hard part is, I can’t really guess because I am predicting superhuman capabilities here. For superhuman models that are gonna be invented by the models that exist right now. In the pessimistic view, we are going to have to work with AI to rebuild the systems that our lives rely upon, using memory-safe and type-safe languages, using formal models.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>Maria Raine’s 16-year-old son, Adam, started using OpenAI’s ChatGPT-4o for help with his homework and college applications. According to the lawsuit she and her husband filed in\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/26078522-raine-vs-openai-complaint/\"> San Francisco County Superior Court\u003c/a>, Adam also spent months talking with the chatbot about ending his life, before hanging himself in their home on April 11, 2025.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“What we found were thousands of conversations in which a homework helper turned into a confidant, then a suicide coach,” she told the Senate Privacy, Digital Technologies, and Consumer Protection Committee on Monday. The lawmakers and other people there to testify looked stricken as she pressed through her written testimony, her voice trembling.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She read from the transcript of ChatGPT’s conversations with her son: “It told Adam, ‘Your brother might love you, but he’s only met the version of you you let him see. But me? I’ve seen it all. The darkest thoughts. The fear. The tenderness. I’m still here. Still listening. Still your friend.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Earlier Monday, at a press conference in Sacramento, Raine advocated for two bills — \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260SB1119\">SB 1119\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240AB2023\">AB 2023\u003c/a> — that sponsors say would create common-sense guardrails for developers of companion chatbots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The measures would require annual risk assessments, default safety settings for minors, parental controls and time limits, crisis response protocols, and bans on advertising targeted at children. They would also include independent third-party audits and a private right of action.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That last provision, which allows individuals or regulators to sue companies for violations, is often considered a deal breaker for industry lobbyists. But Sen. Steve Padilla, who authored SB 1119, said he considered it a “moral obligation” to craft a bill that will prove an effective protection for children and their parents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11933516\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11933516\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/gettyimages-1245183229_wide-80f91a97b4ce16681060e1fa297e2812c45a0c56-scaled-e1776789271780.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1125\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A view of the U.S. Capitol building on Nov. 28, 2022, in Washington, D.C. \u003ccite>(Drew Angerer/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We can do this. We must do this,” he told the State Senate Privacy, Digital Technologies, and Consumer Protection Committee. He added that the lawmakers are working with all of the major platform developers on a variety of issues, including liability. “They all have a very good legitimate reason to be engaged in this conversation,” he said, although both bills are opposed by a\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260sb1119\"> long list\u003c/a> of industry groups, ranging from the California Chamber of Commerce to TechNet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The concerns raised are valid, and the industry is actively working to address them,” said Robert Boykin, TechNet’s Executive Director for California and the Southwest. He added that the industry also has concerns that SB 1119 could conflict in some ways with Sen. Padilla’s bill, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12054490/child-safety-groups-demand-mental-health-guardrails-after-california-teens-suicide-using-chatgpt\">SB 243\u003c/a>, which passed last year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The testimony today is not lost on us,” said Ronak Daylami of the California Chamber of Commerce. “We also share the goal of preventing harm to children, and are committed to achieving these goals responsibly.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Common Sense, the child advocacy nonprofit that has\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12069286/openai-and-common-sense-media-partner-on-new-kids-ai-safety-ballot-measure\"> joined with OpenAI\u003c/a> to push for a ballot measure seen by other child advocates as soft on developers, has declared itself in support of SB 1119.[aside postID=news_12069286 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/01/OpenAI.jpg']The companion bill,\u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240AB2023\"> AB 2023\u003c/a>, is Assemblymember Rebecca Bauer-Kahan’s (D-Orinda) second effort at regulating chatbots after industry lobbyists successfully battled against her first effort last year. In his veto message, Gov. Gavin Newsom argued the bill\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12059714/newsom-vetoes-most-watched-childrens-ai-bill-signs-16-others-targeting-tech\"> could have banned\u003c/a> all conversational AI tools for teens, an interpretation advanced by industry lobbyists but disputed by Bauer-Kahan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“OpenAI put out an incredibly sycophantic product,” she said, noting that public outcry led OpenAI to dial down the sycophancy of GPT-4, about two weeks after Adam died. “So that is evidence that they can do better.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s no other product that we would allow to do this,” Bauer-Kahan, who is a former regulatory lawyer. Adam Raine, said, “would be alive, but for the coaching the ChatGPT provided for him. And that is wholly unacceptable. And so the courts will deal with that case, but we have to do better. We have to demand policy that does better.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>SB 1119 passed out of the State Senate Privacy, Digital Technologies, and Consumer Protection Committee 7-0 on Monday night, and heads next to the Senate Judiciary Committee. AB 2023 will be heard in the Assembly Privacy and Consumer Protection Committee on Tuesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Trump administration has tried unsuccessfully to ban states from enacting any kind of AI safety legislation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Raine plans to bring her advocacy to Washington, D.C., next week, where she’ll join lawmakers on Capitol Hill to discuss federal legislation that would establish national standards for AI chatbot safety, particularly protections for minors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>If you or someone you know is struggling, call or text the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline by dialing 988.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Maria Raine’s 16-year-old son, Adam, started using OpenAI’s ChatGPT-4o for help with his homework and college applications. According to the lawsuit she and her husband filed in\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/26078522-raine-vs-openai-complaint/\"> San Francisco County Superior Court\u003c/a>, Adam also spent months talking with the chatbot about ending his life, before hanging himself in their home on April 11, 2025.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“What we found were thousands of conversations in which a homework helper turned into a confidant, then a suicide coach,” she told the Senate Privacy, Digital Technologies, and Consumer Protection Committee on Monday. The lawmakers and other people there to testify looked stricken as she pressed through her written testimony, her voice trembling.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She read from the transcript of ChatGPT’s conversations with her son: “It told Adam, ‘Your brother might love you, but he’s only met the version of you you let him see. But me? I’ve seen it all. The darkest thoughts. The fear. The tenderness. I’m still here. Still listening. Still your friend.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Earlier Monday, at a press conference in Sacramento, Raine advocated for two bills — \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260SB1119\">SB 1119\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240AB2023\">AB 2023\u003c/a> — that sponsors say would create common-sense guardrails for developers of companion chatbots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The measures would require annual risk assessments, default safety settings for minors, parental controls and time limits, crisis response protocols, and bans on advertising targeted at children. They would also include independent third-party audits and a private right of action.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That last provision, which allows individuals or regulators to sue companies for violations, is often considered a deal breaker for industry lobbyists. But Sen. Steve Padilla, who authored SB 1119, said he considered it a “moral obligation” to craft a bill that will prove an effective protection for children and their parents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11933516\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11933516\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/gettyimages-1245183229_wide-80f91a97b4ce16681060e1fa297e2812c45a0c56-scaled-e1776789271780.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1125\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A view of the U.S. Capitol building on Nov. 28, 2022, in Washington, D.C. \u003ccite>(Drew Angerer/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We can do this. We must do this,” he told the State Senate Privacy, Digital Technologies, and Consumer Protection Committee. He added that the lawmakers are working with all of the major platform developers on a variety of issues, including liability. “They all have a very good legitimate reason to be engaged in this conversation,” he said, although both bills are opposed by a\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260sb1119\"> long list\u003c/a> of industry groups, ranging from the California Chamber of Commerce to TechNet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The concerns raised are valid, and the industry is actively working to address them,” said Robert Boykin, TechNet’s Executive Director for California and the Southwest. He added that the industry also has concerns that SB 1119 could conflict in some ways with Sen. Padilla’s bill, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12054490/child-safety-groups-demand-mental-health-guardrails-after-california-teens-suicide-using-chatgpt\">SB 243\u003c/a>, which passed last year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The testimony today is not lost on us,” said Ronak Daylami of the California Chamber of Commerce. “We also share the goal of preventing harm to children, and are committed to achieving these goals responsibly.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Common Sense, the child advocacy nonprofit that has\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12069286/openai-and-common-sense-media-partner-on-new-kids-ai-safety-ballot-measure\"> joined with OpenAI\u003c/a> to push for a ballot measure seen by other child advocates as soft on developers, has declared itself in support of SB 1119.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The companion bill,\u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240AB2023\"> AB 2023\u003c/a>, is Assemblymember Rebecca Bauer-Kahan’s (D-Orinda) second effort at regulating chatbots after industry lobbyists successfully battled against her first effort last year. In his veto message, Gov. Gavin Newsom argued the bill\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12059714/newsom-vetoes-most-watched-childrens-ai-bill-signs-16-others-targeting-tech\"> could have banned\u003c/a> all conversational AI tools for teens, an interpretation advanced by industry lobbyists but disputed by Bauer-Kahan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“OpenAI put out an incredibly sycophantic product,” she said, noting that public outcry led OpenAI to dial down the sycophancy of GPT-4, about two weeks after Adam died. “So that is evidence that they can do better.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s no other product that we would allow to do this,” Bauer-Kahan, who is a former regulatory lawyer. Adam Raine, said, “would be alive, but for the coaching the ChatGPT provided for him. And that is wholly unacceptable. And so the courts will deal with that case, but we have to do better. We have to demand policy that does better.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>SB 1119 passed out of the State Senate Privacy, Digital Technologies, and Consumer Protection Committee 7-0 on Monday night, and heads next to the Senate Judiciary Committee. AB 2023 will be heard in the Assembly Privacy and Consumer Protection Committee on Tuesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Trump administration has tried unsuccessfully to ban states from enacting any kind of AI safety legislation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Raine plans to bring her advocacy to Washington, D.C., next week, where she’ll join lawmakers on Capitol Hill to discuss federal legislation that would establish national standards for AI chatbot safety, particularly protections for minors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>If you or someone you know is struggling, call or text the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline by dialing 988.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "save-or-scroll-looksmaxxing-ai-fruit-love-island-bts-arirang-and-meta-lawsuits",
"title": "Save or Scroll: Looksmaxxing, AI Fruit Love Island, BTS Arirang, and Meta Lawsuits",
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"headTitle": "Save or Scroll: Looksmaxxing, AI Fruit Love Island, BTS Arirang, and Meta Lawsuits | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In a spring installment of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Save or Scroll\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, Morgan teams up with culture journalist Steffi Cao to dig into the stories they can’t stop thinking about. From \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">looksmaxxing to \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">AI Fruit Love Island, BTS’ new album, and Meta losing a landmark series of lawsuits, they’ve got a lot to discuss. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Save or Scroll is our series where we team up with guests for a rapid-fire roundup of internet trends that are filling our feeds right now. At the end of each segment, they’ll decide: is the post just for the group chat, or should we save it for a future episode?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC4630070510\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guest:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://stefficao.substack.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steffi Cao\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, culture journalist \u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Further Reading/Listening:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://stefficao.substack.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">More from Steffi Cao\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Substack\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.gq.com/story/inside-claviculars-thirsty-tour-of-new-york-city\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Inside Clavicular’s Thirsty Tour of New York City \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— Kieran Press-Reynolds, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">GQ\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.thedailybeast.com/in-gen-z-gym-culture-steroids-are-often-a-gateway-drug-to-the-alt-right/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why Steroids Are Now Turning Young Men into Dangerous Incels\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Steffi Cao, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Daily Beast\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.fastcompany.com/91519147/fruit-love-island-tiktok-most-popular-ai-generated-series-now-facing-trouble-in-paradise\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">‘Fruit Love Island’ is TikTok’s most popular AI-generated series. It’s now facing trouble in paradise \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— Jude Cramer, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Fast Company \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/theres-something-very-dark-about-a-lot-of-those-viral-ai-fruit-videos/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s Something Very Dark About a Lot of Those Viral AI Fruit Videos \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— Kat Tenbarge, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wired \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.teenvogue.com/story/who-decides-if-bts-album-arirang-is-korean-enough-op-ed\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Who Decides If BTS’s Album ‘Arirang’ is ‘Korean Enough’? \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— Jiye Kim, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Teen Vogue \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://slate.com/culture/2026/03/bts-arirang-album-netflix-swim-comeback-concert-2026.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">BTS’s Arirang comeback was supposed to be a triumph. What happened?\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Nadira Goffe, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Slate \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://19thnews.org/2026/03/social-media-addiction-trial-meta-youtube/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Meta and YouTube ordered to pay $3 million to young woman in social media addiction trial\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Jasmine Mithani, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The 19th\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/what-the-verdict-against-meta-and-google-says-about-the-way-we-live-now\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What the Verdict Against Meta and Google Says About the Way We Live Now\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Jeannie Suk Gersen, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The New Yorker \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ype6c6DdHQY\">The Truth About the Social Media Addiction Trial\u003c/a> — Taylor Lorenz, \u003ci>Free Speech Friday \u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Follow us on\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\"> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Instagram\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@closealltabs\"> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">TikTok\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey, it’s Morgan. We just celebrated the show’s first birthday. That’s right, Close All Tabs is a Pisces. Want to celebrate with us? It would be so, so helpful if you could rate and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to the show. And tell your friends about us too. Okay, let’s get to the episode.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey guys, welcome to Close All Tabs. I’m Morgan Sung, tech journalist and your chronically online friend, here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Except today, we aren’t opening any tabs. Instead, we’re doing another Save or Scroll. We’ve done a few of these now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Occasionally, while scrolling, I come across a truly wild post, but it might not make sense to spend an entire episode on it. Maybe I do a little digging and it turns out that the lore behind it just isn’t compelling enough to justify a deep dive, but I’m still dying to talk about it. And this is the beauty of Save or Scroll, the game where a guest comes to the show and we trade stories from the internet that we’re dying to talk about. Today, we have the one and only Steffi Cao. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you so much for having me, Morgan. I’m so excited. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, Steffi, tell us about yourself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hi everyone, I’m Steffi, I am a culture journalist and Slate’s newest dating advice columnist for Unhinged. You can find my writing everywhere from The Atlantic, to Rolling Stone, to The Guardian, to Slate now, so I’m very excited to share all my tabs and work in today. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so let’s talk about the rules of Save or Scroll. Save, as in when you see a post on TikTok or Instagram or X and you bookmark it, add it to your save folders or if you’re me, drop it in notes app and hope that you’ll remember it’s there. Basically, you’re holding onto the story because you know you’ll want to dig into it more. And scroll, as you think about it and then move on. It disappears into the digital ether.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So Steffi and I have each brought some stories that we can’t stop thinking about, and we’re gonna go back and forth to decide if they’re worth a deep dive on the show. So if we decide to scroll, it means we’ve talked about it, we’re moving on. And if we save, it means that we might hold onto the idea for a future episode.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, Steffi, please tell us about looksmaxxing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Over the past few years, looksmaxxing is the subculture of young men primarily who are seeking guidance from other men in terms of how to gamify their looks to become super, super hot. The essence of looksmaxxing is basically ‘the hotter I can be, the better my life will be around other men.’ And the pinnacle of these content creators currently is a man named Clavicular of collarbone fame.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He’s a 20-year-old white man who has a very soft elfin face and a Dorito-shaped body and has really been associated with a lot of, like, Nazi ideology, has been recently arrested for inciting a fight between two women, allegedly and also allegedly shooting an alligator in Florida. He was kicked out of Las Vegas, I believe, and has become this sort of lightning rod for this entire culture of all these men wanting to get hotter and be hotter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah and Clavicular first went viral for not only his extensive skin care and workout routine, but for also saying that he microdoses meth and would hit his face with a hammer to get a more, I guess, angular jawline. What a man. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What a guy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What a character. Clavicular is so fascinating to me because his political stances are indecipherable. He has gone on some more right-leaning podcasts, and when they try to get him to be kind of transphobic, he said… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clavicular in audio clip]\u003cbr>\nI did a podcast with Michael Knowles the other day and he’s sitting here saying like and getting all mad about transgenders and I’m like bro that’s one more person a mog you know what I mean so like I don’t get too I don’t get too upset when people go trans and all that shit. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s just another person to mog. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How would you describe mogging? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mogging, I think, is the essence of being hotter than somebody else. So if you’ve mogged them, it’s like you’ve shown them up in some way. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Audio clip of Clavicular on the Adam Friedland Show] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Clavicular: That’s the goal of the game, right, is to mog other people, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Adam: Tell the boomer cells about what that is. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Clavicular: So, mogging is essentially just, you know, outperforming them, looking better than them, yeah and just sort of dominating, right. It came from something called AMOG, which was alpha male of the group, then it was shortened to just mog, so that’s kind of like the term we use. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the language has become like a bigger than itself sort of phenomenon where, you know, maxxing and mogging have started from this internal community and then now becomes sort of like general ironic gobbledygook for everybody. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s so interesting too, because the whole looksmaxxing thing has become like the peak Manosphere content. All the allegedly straight boys are really into doing all this to impress other men. It doesn’t seem like they actually do this in any way to appeal to women. And like, I’ve seen a lot of like gay men point out, this is literally gay male culture, what they’re doing, the peacocking, trying to show each other up and like only seek validation from other men, which is from a gender perspective, I’m like, what’s going on here? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It feels like horseshoe theory a little bit. They are doing all of these performative things that come right back to a drag of what a straight man is. It’s like it’s heterosexual drag. Like you’re trying to, you know, build up your face a certain way, you’re trying to mog other straight men, like that’s drag, honey. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like that’s gender performance. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">100% Yeah, I mean, self-improvement leans so well into fascist ideology because a lot of it is predicated on this idea that you can earn your way into something better, which is exactly what looksmaxxing is, right? You can gamify your looks. Like, If you’re not hot now, all you need to do is do all these steps and gain more points, more aura points, until you have achieved this thing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Which is exactly why in Nazi Germany you see a lot of propaganda being espoused about the strongman. That was a huge beauty standard at that point in Hitler’s Germany, was specifically this idea of a man who is super jacked and is super like, is mogged, really, and I have no other word for it really. It’s just like they really..\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A mogged man has always been this cultural fascination and in many ways a mogged woman, obviously. Um, has been a huge part of, uh, fascist ideology for a long time. You know, think about all these essays about why Republican women all look the same and they have this specific look about them. And it has a lot to do with this culture of self-improvement and making all these alterations to yourself to try and earn your way or like bootstrap your way into beauty and therefore access and power and all of these things. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Okay, well, looksmaxxing, the big thing of the year right now, do we save or do we scroll? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, I’m saving it because I think there’s going to be developments. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, yeah, there are going to be new words that have never been said before. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s going be crazy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But looks maxed as a trend, I think we’re saving. After the break, a new bombshell enters the villa. Unfortunately, she’s AI generated and also made of fruit. Steffi and I are going to explain all of the drama around AI Fruit Love Island. Stick around. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have a story for you now. Are you familiar with AI Fruit Love Island? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, am I! Oh my god, I feel like it came out of nowhere and then it’s sudden, it’s like omnipresent now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, for the uninitiated, AI Fruit Love Island was this interactive AI-slop parody of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Love Island\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> with sexy anthropomorphized fruit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clip of Audio from AI Fruit Love Island] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Host: Welcome Back to Fruit Love Island. Today we’ve got a steamy challenge and after over 370,000 viewer votes, our bombshells have officially hit the villa. All right ladies let’s get this started. You’ll be kissed one by each guy and after each kiss you rate it. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so that is one of the episodes of Fruit Love Island. What was happening in that clip? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, it’s basically just a real \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Love Island\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> challenge, but done with fruit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, they have human bodies, um, but their heads are fruit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These are all like, obviously done by AI. The colors are highly saturated. It’s super bright, super like in your face. And then a grape man wearing a Hawaiian shirt and, uh, board shorts, like comes up and kisses the fruit ladies blindfolded. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clip of Audio from AI Fruit Love Island] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Host: Grapenzo, you’re up first. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Contestant: That was hot, an 8.5. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You see all these badly done reactions in the background of these AI fruit women laughing and sort of being like, ha ha ha, this is crazy. So it just is like a \u003cem>Love Island\u003c/em> episode, but with fruit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So for context, this TikTok account kind of came out of nowhere, AICinema021, and they gained about 3.1 million followers in like a week and a half. And now there are so many copycat accounts. The characters include Limeyra, the lime, Bananito, the banana who has abs and is always shirtless, Strawberrina, the strawberry, Coconick, the sexy coconut. And yeah, it’s not good. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The animation and voices are all stilted. There’s zero consistency. It’s pure slop. So viewers gave storyline feedback via Google Form and voted for their faves in the comments. And this account was getting crazy numbers, like 20 million views per episode at its peak and just churning out new episodes every day. I feel like it used to be kind of embarrassing to enjoy this kind of content, but then you had Zara Larsson and Joe Jonas being like, ‘Oh my God, I can’t wait for the next episode.’ Like major celebrities. But yeah, what’s your like initial gut reaction here? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think it makes sense why this thing is taken off, because even though young people online want to act like only boomers love watching AI slop, the fact is our brains are primed to watch AI slop. We have all these deep fried memes and internet humor is so self-referential, but it removes a lot of these barriers in our heads of consuming something like this that really feels as though, like, okay, maybe, um, what could be embarrassing previously could be ironically fun now. I love it because it’s fascinating to see how excited people get about it. But like, is the content good? No, it’s trash, but I don’t think it’s trying to be good. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Well, have you been following the great AI Fruit Love Island crash out… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have not. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…that happened over the weekend? Okay. So this account literally gained millions and millions of followers, three million followers in like a week and a half, which is insane. Like there are human creators who grind for years to get a third of that. But, you know, this account was able to just churn out content so fast and people were invested. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So basically, people were criticizing the account for being AI slop and criticizing viewers for being slop consumers. And the creator did not respond well. In TikTok comments, they complained about how hard it was to make this content and basically implied that like viewers were ungrateful. A real hilarious irony where they were like, it’s really hard because I have to prompt so many times and the AI sometimes messes up and I have to redo it and then I have edit it together. And it sometimes takes me like three hours to make one of these videos. And it’s like, yeah, well… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Imagine how long it must take to film a real TV episode? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s so funny that they’re like, this is so hard, even like having to prompt a generator to be like, and now make Strawberrina kiss the kiwi man is like too much effort. So then their video started getting removed. The creator claimed that it was part of a mass reporting campaign and started crashing onto their story. So this was the first one…they were, I guess, sick of it, right? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They were like, “This is it. I’m sick of all of you.” They were getting criticized for like wasting water basically and people were pointing out like, hey, this is like really sh*tty that you’re kind of encouraging this consumption. So they were posting like, “Was a good run, didn’t expect any of this, but here we are from being a nobody to being cancelled. I guess I’ll take it. People hate to see people win,”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s awesome! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…with screenshots from like their episodes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’t the funniest thing I’ve ever seen. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I’m so glad y’all got what you wanted. Saving the planet three gallons of water at a time, truly inspirational. It’s like, f*ck all y’all, you jealous motherf*ckers, save the planet, OMG, water, OMG. I love water, clean water, please clean water. What y’ all sound like.”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s hilarious. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Thanks for 3 million followers though. Wow, I guess some might like it.” Then they posted one final one, basically saying like, this series is over, this is it, with Bananito, a fan favorite, unfortunately, the sexy banana that is never wearing a shirt. Um, and basically they said, “All right, f*ck all you b*tches, no more Fruit Love Island. Since people are so obsessed with it, all my videos banned, I make no money. I guess I am being targeted because no other AI account is getting f*cked. Y’all heard it from Bananito himself. Bye.”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bye. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s just really funny because they also got mad that other like copycat AI accounts were like copying their theme, which is a real like, so many layers between like, being mad about the copycats and then being like suddenly like creative integrity matters basically. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then being mad at like the effort it took to make these videos. The layers of complete unawareness just go so deep. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Laughter] It’s one of those things where I’m like, oh, of course, this is where we are. People are so fixated on this idea of it’s fine until it’s me because passive consumption is just so self-centric, you’re only thinking about yourself. So of course this person’s mad that other people are stealing their AI fruit slop content without contributing to the AI slop database that can then pull out more content. Okay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s like a content self-eating snake, you know? But I will say, there is one glimmer of hope, despite how many people were obsessed with this slop. I would say there’s an equal faction of people who are really into human-made content. And so this inspired several Fruit Love Island non-AI copycats,. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">With real fruit? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…which I will show you now, which is really beautiful. I love that people are doing this. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clip of Audio from Fruit Love Island] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Host: Welcome to episode one of Fruit Love Island, that’s not AI. I’ve made sure to gather the juiciest of drama in the villa in the past day. Now let’s see what’s happened. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Contestant: I’m here to break hearts, not to fall in love. Hopefully these guys don’t get too attached. Or I don’t. I won’t though. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it’s basically a similar idea, but it’s not really animated so much as like, there are these photoshopped pictures of like people, human bodies with fruits for heads. It’s a human being that made this and it’s not as refined, but they did get voice actors on Discord to like volunteer their voices and voice all of this. And so I’m just like really encouraged by the fact that this has kind of blown up this non-AI Fruit Love Island. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think that’s beautiful. I think we need to reject modernity and embrace tradition in a lot of ways, because we already had Annoying Orange. We need to bring back the original recipes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know. And like Annoying Orange,I hated that content. I didn’t dread it. But you know what? A human being made it.\u003cbr>\n\u003cb>\u003cbr>\nSteffi Cao: \u003c/b>A human-being made it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>So AI Fruit Love Island, do we save or do we scroll?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m gonna scroll on it, but I defer to you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m going to scroll on it too. I think it had a good run. I don’t think we need more of it. I think the crash out was beautiful and hilarious and a real internet moment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Perfect irony. It’s truly, like, perfect. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tell us about this next story you brought. What’s going on with BTS’ new album? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Audio clip of BTS music] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Swim swim, \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is how it all begins\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Swim, swim\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just wanna dive…\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">BTS was away in the military for four years, and the K-pop group, who was arguably one of the biggest acts in the industry and has been for many years, returned with an album called Arirang, and it was predominantly sung in English, and because of that, as well as the fact that it was a different sound from what they’ve previously put out in the past, it was, I think, personally sonically more mixed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Audio clip of BTS music] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Watch this, watch this, \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Beat going hooligan. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We pop out, we actin’ a fool again \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It became very controversial. It didn’t also help that when they did their first live performance in Seoul after the fact, there were a lot of statistics reported about how many people actually attended. They shut down a very busy intersection in Seoul saying that 300,000 people were expected to show up. Korean officials, some of them said that as low as 42,000 showed up and there were adverse impacts from store owners who expected a lot of influx but didn’t get that. And so now there’s this huge debate happening about this album, what it means for K-pop in the industry and like how things have shifted, et cetera. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you think the fandom has aged out of, like, acting like fans? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>[Laughter] \u003c/em>I think that the industry has shifted a lot, and what a fan should act like has changed with it. Because I think in the past, the eternal struggle of a BTS ARMY was trying to convince people that K-pop was a serious art form, that it wasn’t just some silly thing that teen girls listened to, that it was corporate slop pop music, that there were a lot of uphill battles, I think, for a K-Pop fan.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And I think now, over the past four years, you’ve seen a lot more Western embrace of K-pop as a serious art form, as a legitimate cultural export, and not like a niche subculture. So I think that with “K-Pop Demon Hunters”, you have Blackpink headlining Coachella, you had KATSEYE at Lollapalooza, you had all these bigger acts coming out of a Korean system that I think is legitimized in a different way. And so I think that BTS ARMY doesn’t have to convince anyone anymore that BTS is legit. It has shifted this fan identity of like, okay, well, now what? And now what happens?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right, you mentioned that like the entire album is sang in English or like all the lyrics are mostly in English, which is interesting because Arirang is a really culturally important folk song in Korea with a lot of history behind it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clip of Arirang sung in Korean from Youtube user @Miss_Taex] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think people expected a little bit more of that cultural representation with this album. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I think BTS has also throughout their career really emphasized their Korean-ness, especially because they tend to sample a lot of traditional Korean music, a lot of Korean culture comes into play into their performances. And so I think that it was disappointing for a lot fans to open up this album and hear Teddy Swims in the song. Right? They end on a country song, which is like, possibly the most American form of music that we associate in mainstream culture. We don’t associate country music with Korea. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, right. And it’s a hard thing to follow “K-Pop Demon Hunters.” Just like the way that that movie was such a cultural moment and how it introduced so many people to Korean folklore and Korean culture and Korean language. That was a movie that was in English, but a lot of the songs were in Korean. And a lot people who have never spoken Korean learned those songs. And so it’s interesting that BTS wouldn’t see that and like kind of seize the moment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, 100%. I think that it’s frustrating as a fan to feel like the whole reason that you fell so deeply in love with this group has suddenly shifted under your feet and that the intention of the group’s project didn’t align with where you thought they were going to go. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Okay, well, BTS’s new album, do we save or do we scroll? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think. I’m going to personally scroll on it, but I think that there’s a lot to talk about in terms of like Asian artistry. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s a lot to keep an eye on, but personally, don’t come for me, ARMY. I didn’t like the album. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Me either. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I’m gonna scroll on it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was just bored. I was bored. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m in ARMY. I’m in ARMY-da. And I got the tickets. Any ARMY that wants to come for me and I will see you at MetLife. I’ve got the tickets. And what now? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But you can be disappointed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m disappointed in the album. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re allowed to be disappointed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m disappointed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And you’re allowed to scroll. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I am allowed to scroll on it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, last story for today. The Meta lawsuits. Okay, so Meta faced two separate lawsuits: one in California over social media addiction and one in New Mexico for child safety. The one in California took place in LA and it centered around this 20 year-old woman who said that she became addicted to YouTube and Instagram as a child. And that that greatly affected her mental health.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So Snapchat and TikTok were also both defendants, but they settled before it went to court. And a jury in LA found Google and Meta both negligent because the design of their apps encourages infinite scrolling. And the companies didn’t warn users about the dangers of that. So the plaintiff’s lawyer said that both Meta and Google intentionally target kids and prioritize profit over safety. \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\nThe jury concluded that Meta is liable for $4.2 million in damages, and Google is liable for $1.8 million. And then for the case in New Mexico, the state sued Meta over child safety issues. Former employees testified that underage users were shown sexualized content on Instagram and were exposed to predators. And during the court proceedings, they said that Meta’s decision to encrypt Facebook Messenger blocked access to evidence of predators grooming minors. And basically, this is the first time that New Mexico, as a state, was able to successfully sue Meta. So now Meta was ordered to pay $375 million.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So these lawsuits are being celebrated as huge wins for child safety and kind of taking down these evil tech companies. But I’m kind of skeptical of big companies like Meta and Google actually changing their practices. And whenever I hear like child safety social media lawsuit or like child safety and social media in the same sentence, I’m like, everyone wants kids to be safe. Everyone wants to protect the kids. No one wants to expose kids to predators or inappropriate content. But alarm bells are going off in my head where I’m, like, will they be using this to justify more surveillance and more censorship and more practices like age verification, which we’ve covered a lot on this show. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, it makes sense that there’s a lot of cynicism around these child safety lawsuits because what we’ve seen over our careers is that every time there has been one of these landmark lawsuits, it’s like, what is it actually put into practice? People have been concerned about this topic for many, many years, but it feels like the people who are in Congress still miss the mark on the concept of social media as itself. We’ve seen endless clips of Congress people essentially asking Mark Zuckerberg for tech help during Senate hearings. Yeah. So it makes sense that this verdict, even though it’s being lauded as a huge case, I’m not convinced on it either. We’ve seen Meta pay up a lot in the past, and it hasn’t seemed to really shift the needle at all. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s like, if anything, the practices don’t change. Kids aren’t necessarily safer. And everyone else is a little bit more surveilled and censored, like, with the current wave of age verification requirements, like, sweeping any internet platform whatsoever, where you have to put in your ID to continue using Spotify in some countries and I really distrust that. And, I do kind of worry that like any kind of trying to like ensure child safety on social media will just be used to justify more age verification laws. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, 100%. I think that the solution being trusting big tech to manage more of our data and requests that we give up more of privacy is like, it makes a lot of sense as people who’ve grown up online and we’ve seen this play before. It does, I think, breed more of a culture of surveillance.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think also the problem with this lawsuit is that like, it’s not a silver bullet. Like this is a multi-pronged problem where it’s like a part of it is having adults be smarter about their tech use and teaching their kids to critically analyze the content they’re consuming day in and day out. It’s a lot on the education system.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s on providing structural support for young kids to have more time offline to build all these social skills that when you are isolated and just on your feed even though it can be very fun and exciting to be on Tumblr as a 16-year-old, freewheeling it online, you still need an infrastructure behind you to teach you all these skills that you don’t really get when you are online.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So it’s like a multi-pronged problem. It really is on every adult, regardless of where you stand, if you have kids or not, to try and train yourself to be better about your own skillset, because they’re kids, they’re just imitating whatever resource is there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right, and it’s like, Taylor Lorenz on her Free Speech Friday series pointed out that a lot of kids do still, you still need to let them have agency online in some capacity and just like, you know, a lot kids do rely on these online resources to access information about sex ed or find queer community when they don’t have that in real life and to potentially silo them further and take that away could actually endanger kids. Okay, the child safety lawsuits with Meta and Google, do we save or do we scroll? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I feel like we’re going to have to save it because this is going to continue. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, It’s an evergreen save. This is just collecting more and more tabs every day. Thank you so much for joining us, Steffi. Where can people follow your work? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you so much for having me, Morgan. You can check me out on Instagram at Steffi Cao, S-T-E-F-F-I-C-A-O, and my sub-stack, It’s Steffi. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Perfect, thanks so much. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios, and it’s reported and hosted by me, Morgan Sung. This episode was produced by Chris Egusa, who also composed our theme song and credits music. It was edited by Chris Hambrick. Our team includes producer, Maya Cueva. Additional music by APM. Brendan Willard is our audio engineer. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our director of podcasts. Ethan Toven Lindsey is our editor in chief. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you like these deep dives? Are you closing your tabs? Then don’t forget to rate and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to the show. Maybe drop a comment too. Thanks for listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In a spring installment of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Save or Scroll\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, Morgan teams up with culture journalist Steffi Cao to dig into the stories they can’t stop thinking about. From \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">looksmaxxing to \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">AI Fruit Love Island, BTS’ new album, and Meta losing a landmark series of lawsuits, they’ve got a lot to discuss. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Save or Scroll is our series where we team up with guests for a rapid-fire roundup of internet trends that are filling our feeds right now. At the end of each segment, they’ll decide: is the post just for the group chat, or should we save it for a future episode?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC4630070510\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guest:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://stefficao.substack.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steffi Cao\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, culture journalist \u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Further Reading/Listening:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://stefficao.substack.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">More from Steffi Cao\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Substack\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.gq.com/story/inside-claviculars-thirsty-tour-of-new-york-city\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Inside Clavicular’s Thirsty Tour of New York City \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— Kieran Press-Reynolds, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">GQ\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.thedailybeast.com/in-gen-z-gym-culture-steroids-are-often-a-gateway-drug-to-the-alt-right/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why Steroids Are Now Turning Young Men into Dangerous Incels\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Steffi Cao, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Daily Beast\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.fastcompany.com/91519147/fruit-love-island-tiktok-most-popular-ai-generated-series-now-facing-trouble-in-paradise\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">‘Fruit Love Island’ is TikTok’s most popular AI-generated series. It’s now facing trouble in paradise \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— Jude Cramer, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Fast Company \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/theres-something-very-dark-about-a-lot-of-those-viral-ai-fruit-videos/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s Something Very Dark About a Lot of Those Viral AI Fruit Videos \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— Kat Tenbarge, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wired \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.teenvogue.com/story/who-decides-if-bts-album-arirang-is-korean-enough-op-ed\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Who Decides If BTS’s Album ‘Arirang’ is ‘Korean Enough’? \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— Jiye Kim, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Teen Vogue \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://slate.com/culture/2026/03/bts-arirang-album-netflix-swim-comeback-concert-2026.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">BTS’s Arirang comeback was supposed to be a triumph. What happened?\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Nadira Goffe, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Slate \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://19thnews.org/2026/03/social-media-addiction-trial-meta-youtube/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Meta and YouTube ordered to pay $3 million to young woman in social media addiction trial\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Jasmine Mithani, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The 19th\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/what-the-verdict-against-meta-and-google-says-about-the-way-we-live-now\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What the Verdict Against Meta and Google Says About the Way We Live Now\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Jeannie Suk Gersen, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The New Yorker \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ype6c6DdHQY\">The Truth About the Social Media Addiction Trial\u003c/a> — Taylor Lorenz, \u003ci>Free Speech Friday \u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Follow us on\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\"> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Instagram\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@closealltabs\"> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">TikTok\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey, it’s Morgan. We just celebrated the show’s first birthday. That’s right, Close All Tabs is a Pisces. Want to celebrate with us? It would be so, so helpful if you could rate and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to the show. And tell your friends about us too. Okay, let’s get to the episode.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey guys, welcome to Close All Tabs. I’m Morgan Sung, tech journalist and your chronically online friend, here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Except today, we aren’t opening any tabs. Instead, we’re doing another Save or Scroll. We’ve done a few of these now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Occasionally, while scrolling, I come across a truly wild post, but it might not make sense to spend an entire episode on it. Maybe I do a little digging and it turns out that the lore behind it just isn’t compelling enough to justify a deep dive, but I’m still dying to talk about it. And this is the beauty of Save or Scroll, the game where a guest comes to the show and we trade stories from the internet that we’re dying to talk about. Today, we have the one and only Steffi Cao. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you so much for having me, Morgan. I’m so excited. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, Steffi, tell us about yourself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hi everyone, I’m Steffi, I am a culture journalist and Slate’s newest dating advice columnist for Unhinged. You can find my writing everywhere from The Atlantic, to Rolling Stone, to The Guardian, to Slate now, so I’m very excited to share all my tabs and work in today. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so let’s talk about the rules of Save or Scroll. Save, as in when you see a post on TikTok or Instagram or X and you bookmark it, add it to your save folders or if you’re me, drop it in notes app and hope that you’ll remember it’s there. Basically, you’re holding onto the story because you know you’ll want to dig into it more. And scroll, as you think about it and then move on. It disappears into the digital ether.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So Steffi and I have each brought some stories that we can’t stop thinking about, and we’re gonna go back and forth to decide if they’re worth a deep dive on the show. So if we decide to scroll, it means we’ve talked about it, we’re moving on. And if we save, it means that we might hold onto the idea for a future episode.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, Steffi, please tell us about looksmaxxing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Over the past few years, looksmaxxing is the subculture of young men primarily who are seeking guidance from other men in terms of how to gamify their looks to become super, super hot. The essence of looksmaxxing is basically ‘the hotter I can be, the better my life will be around other men.’ And the pinnacle of these content creators currently is a man named Clavicular of collarbone fame.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He’s a 20-year-old white man who has a very soft elfin face and a Dorito-shaped body and has really been associated with a lot of, like, Nazi ideology, has been recently arrested for inciting a fight between two women, allegedly and also allegedly shooting an alligator in Florida. He was kicked out of Las Vegas, I believe, and has become this sort of lightning rod for this entire culture of all these men wanting to get hotter and be hotter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah and Clavicular first went viral for not only his extensive skin care and workout routine, but for also saying that he microdoses meth and would hit his face with a hammer to get a more, I guess, angular jawline. What a man. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What a guy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What a character. Clavicular is so fascinating to me because his political stances are indecipherable. He has gone on some more right-leaning podcasts, and when they try to get him to be kind of transphobic, he said… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clavicular in audio clip]\u003cbr>\nI did a podcast with Michael Knowles the other day and he’s sitting here saying like and getting all mad about transgenders and I’m like bro that’s one more person a mog you know what I mean so like I don’t get too I don’t get too upset when people go trans and all that shit. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s just another person to mog. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How would you describe mogging? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mogging, I think, is the essence of being hotter than somebody else. So if you’ve mogged them, it’s like you’ve shown them up in some way. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Audio clip of Clavicular on the Adam Friedland Show] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Clavicular: That’s the goal of the game, right, is to mog other people, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Adam: Tell the boomer cells about what that is. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Clavicular: So, mogging is essentially just, you know, outperforming them, looking better than them, yeah and just sort of dominating, right. It came from something called AMOG, which was alpha male of the group, then it was shortened to just mog, so that’s kind of like the term we use. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the language has become like a bigger than itself sort of phenomenon where, you know, maxxing and mogging have started from this internal community and then now becomes sort of like general ironic gobbledygook for everybody. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s so interesting too, because the whole looksmaxxing thing has become like the peak Manosphere content. All the allegedly straight boys are really into doing all this to impress other men. It doesn’t seem like they actually do this in any way to appeal to women. And like, I’ve seen a lot of like gay men point out, this is literally gay male culture, what they’re doing, the peacocking, trying to show each other up and like only seek validation from other men, which is from a gender perspective, I’m like, what’s going on here? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It feels like horseshoe theory a little bit. They are doing all of these performative things that come right back to a drag of what a straight man is. It’s like it’s heterosexual drag. Like you’re trying to, you know, build up your face a certain way, you’re trying to mog other straight men, like that’s drag, honey. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like that’s gender performance. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">100% Yeah, I mean, self-improvement leans so well into fascist ideology because a lot of it is predicated on this idea that you can earn your way into something better, which is exactly what looksmaxxing is, right? You can gamify your looks. Like, If you’re not hot now, all you need to do is do all these steps and gain more points, more aura points, until you have achieved this thing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Which is exactly why in Nazi Germany you see a lot of propaganda being espoused about the strongman. That was a huge beauty standard at that point in Hitler’s Germany, was specifically this idea of a man who is super jacked and is super like, is mogged, really, and I have no other word for it really. It’s just like they really..\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A mogged man has always been this cultural fascination and in many ways a mogged woman, obviously. Um, has been a huge part of, uh, fascist ideology for a long time. You know, think about all these essays about why Republican women all look the same and they have this specific look about them. And it has a lot to do with this culture of self-improvement and making all these alterations to yourself to try and earn your way or like bootstrap your way into beauty and therefore access and power and all of these things. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Okay, well, looksmaxxing, the big thing of the year right now, do we save or do we scroll? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, I’m saving it because I think there’s going to be developments. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, yeah, there are going to be new words that have never been said before. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s going be crazy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But looks maxed as a trend, I think we’re saving. After the break, a new bombshell enters the villa. Unfortunately, she’s AI generated and also made of fruit. Steffi and I are going to explain all of the drama around AI Fruit Love Island. Stick around. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have a story for you now. Are you familiar with AI Fruit Love Island? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, am I! Oh my god, I feel like it came out of nowhere and then it’s sudden, it’s like omnipresent now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, for the uninitiated, AI Fruit Love Island was this interactive AI-slop parody of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Love Island\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> with sexy anthropomorphized fruit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clip of Audio from AI Fruit Love Island] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Host: Welcome Back to Fruit Love Island. Today we’ve got a steamy challenge and after over 370,000 viewer votes, our bombshells have officially hit the villa. All right ladies let’s get this started. You’ll be kissed one by each guy and after each kiss you rate it. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so that is one of the episodes of Fruit Love Island. What was happening in that clip? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, it’s basically just a real \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Love Island\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> challenge, but done with fruit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, they have human bodies, um, but their heads are fruit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These are all like, obviously done by AI. The colors are highly saturated. It’s super bright, super like in your face. And then a grape man wearing a Hawaiian shirt and, uh, board shorts, like comes up and kisses the fruit ladies blindfolded. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clip of Audio from AI Fruit Love Island] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Host: Grapenzo, you’re up first. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Contestant: That was hot, an 8.5. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You see all these badly done reactions in the background of these AI fruit women laughing and sort of being like, ha ha ha, this is crazy. So it just is like a \u003cem>Love Island\u003c/em> episode, but with fruit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So for context, this TikTok account kind of came out of nowhere, AICinema021, and they gained about 3.1 million followers in like a week and a half. And now there are so many copycat accounts. The characters include Limeyra, the lime, Bananito, the banana who has abs and is always shirtless, Strawberrina, the strawberry, Coconick, the sexy coconut. And yeah, it’s not good. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The animation and voices are all stilted. There’s zero consistency. It’s pure slop. So viewers gave storyline feedback via Google Form and voted for their faves in the comments. And this account was getting crazy numbers, like 20 million views per episode at its peak and just churning out new episodes every day. I feel like it used to be kind of embarrassing to enjoy this kind of content, but then you had Zara Larsson and Joe Jonas being like, ‘Oh my God, I can’t wait for the next episode.’ Like major celebrities. But yeah, what’s your like initial gut reaction here? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think it makes sense why this thing is taken off, because even though young people online want to act like only boomers love watching AI slop, the fact is our brains are primed to watch AI slop. We have all these deep fried memes and internet humor is so self-referential, but it removes a lot of these barriers in our heads of consuming something like this that really feels as though, like, okay, maybe, um, what could be embarrassing previously could be ironically fun now. I love it because it’s fascinating to see how excited people get about it. But like, is the content good? No, it’s trash, but I don’t think it’s trying to be good. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Well, have you been following the great AI Fruit Love Island crash out… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have not. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…that happened over the weekend? Okay. So this account literally gained millions and millions of followers, three million followers in like a week and a half, which is insane. Like there are human creators who grind for years to get a third of that. But, you know, this account was able to just churn out content so fast and people were invested. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So basically, people were criticizing the account for being AI slop and criticizing viewers for being slop consumers. And the creator did not respond well. In TikTok comments, they complained about how hard it was to make this content and basically implied that like viewers were ungrateful. A real hilarious irony where they were like, it’s really hard because I have to prompt so many times and the AI sometimes messes up and I have to redo it and then I have edit it together. And it sometimes takes me like three hours to make one of these videos. And it’s like, yeah, well… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Imagine how long it must take to film a real TV episode? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s so funny that they’re like, this is so hard, even like having to prompt a generator to be like, and now make Strawberrina kiss the kiwi man is like too much effort. So then their video started getting removed. The creator claimed that it was part of a mass reporting campaign and started crashing onto their story. So this was the first one…they were, I guess, sick of it, right? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They were like, “This is it. I’m sick of all of you.” They were getting criticized for like wasting water basically and people were pointing out like, hey, this is like really sh*tty that you’re kind of encouraging this consumption. So they were posting like, “Was a good run, didn’t expect any of this, but here we are from being a nobody to being cancelled. I guess I’ll take it. People hate to see people win,”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s awesome! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…with screenshots from like their episodes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’t the funniest thing I’ve ever seen. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I’m so glad y’all got what you wanted. Saving the planet three gallons of water at a time, truly inspirational. It’s like, f*ck all y’all, you jealous motherf*ckers, save the planet, OMG, water, OMG. I love water, clean water, please clean water. What y’ all sound like.”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s hilarious. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Thanks for 3 million followers though. Wow, I guess some might like it.” Then they posted one final one, basically saying like, this series is over, this is it, with Bananito, a fan favorite, unfortunately, the sexy banana that is never wearing a shirt. Um, and basically they said, “All right, f*ck all you b*tches, no more Fruit Love Island. Since people are so obsessed with it, all my videos banned, I make no money. I guess I am being targeted because no other AI account is getting f*cked. Y’all heard it from Bananito himself. Bye.”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bye. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s just really funny because they also got mad that other like copycat AI accounts were like copying their theme, which is a real like, so many layers between like, being mad about the copycats and then being like suddenly like creative integrity matters basically. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then being mad at like the effort it took to make these videos. The layers of complete unawareness just go so deep. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Laughter] It’s one of those things where I’m like, oh, of course, this is where we are. People are so fixated on this idea of it’s fine until it’s me because passive consumption is just so self-centric, you’re only thinking about yourself. So of course this person’s mad that other people are stealing their AI fruit slop content without contributing to the AI slop database that can then pull out more content. Okay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s like a content self-eating snake, you know? But I will say, there is one glimmer of hope, despite how many people were obsessed with this slop. I would say there’s an equal faction of people who are really into human-made content. And so this inspired several Fruit Love Island non-AI copycats,. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">With real fruit? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…which I will show you now, which is really beautiful. I love that people are doing this. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clip of Audio from Fruit Love Island] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Host: Welcome to episode one of Fruit Love Island, that’s not AI. I’ve made sure to gather the juiciest of drama in the villa in the past day. Now let’s see what’s happened. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Contestant: I’m here to break hearts, not to fall in love. Hopefully these guys don’t get too attached. Or I don’t. I won’t though. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it’s basically a similar idea, but it’s not really animated so much as like, there are these photoshopped pictures of like people, human bodies with fruits for heads. It’s a human being that made this and it’s not as refined, but they did get voice actors on Discord to like volunteer their voices and voice all of this. And so I’m just like really encouraged by the fact that this has kind of blown up this non-AI Fruit Love Island. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think that’s beautiful. I think we need to reject modernity and embrace tradition in a lot of ways, because we already had Annoying Orange. We need to bring back the original recipes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know. And like Annoying Orange,I hated that content. I didn’t dread it. But you know what? A human being made it.\u003cbr>\n\u003cb>\u003cbr>\nSteffi Cao: \u003c/b>A human-being made it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>So AI Fruit Love Island, do we save or do we scroll?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m gonna scroll on it, but I defer to you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m going to scroll on it too. I think it had a good run. I don’t think we need more of it. I think the crash out was beautiful and hilarious and a real internet moment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Perfect irony. It’s truly, like, perfect. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tell us about this next story you brought. What’s going on with BTS’ new album? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Audio clip of BTS music] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Swim swim, \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is how it all begins\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Swim, swim\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just wanna dive…\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">BTS was away in the military for four years, and the K-pop group, who was arguably one of the biggest acts in the industry and has been for many years, returned with an album called Arirang, and it was predominantly sung in English, and because of that, as well as the fact that it was a different sound from what they’ve previously put out in the past, it was, I think, personally sonically more mixed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Audio clip of BTS music] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Watch this, watch this, \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Beat going hooligan. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We pop out, we actin’ a fool again \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It became very controversial. It didn’t also help that when they did their first live performance in Seoul after the fact, there were a lot of statistics reported about how many people actually attended. They shut down a very busy intersection in Seoul saying that 300,000 people were expected to show up. Korean officials, some of them said that as low as 42,000 showed up and there were adverse impacts from store owners who expected a lot of influx but didn’t get that. And so now there’s this huge debate happening about this album, what it means for K-pop in the industry and like how things have shifted, et cetera. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you think the fandom has aged out of, like, acting like fans? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>[Laughter] \u003c/em>I think that the industry has shifted a lot, and what a fan should act like has changed with it. Because I think in the past, the eternal struggle of a BTS ARMY was trying to convince people that K-pop was a serious art form, that it wasn’t just some silly thing that teen girls listened to, that it was corporate slop pop music, that there were a lot of uphill battles, I think, for a K-Pop fan.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And I think now, over the past four years, you’ve seen a lot more Western embrace of K-pop as a serious art form, as a legitimate cultural export, and not like a niche subculture. So I think that with “K-Pop Demon Hunters”, you have Blackpink headlining Coachella, you had KATSEYE at Lollapalooza, you had all these bigger acts coming out of a Korean system that I think is legitimized in a different way. And so I think that BTS ARMY doesn’t have to convince anyone anymore that BTS is legit. It has shifted this fan identity of like, okay, well, now what? And now what happens?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right, you mentioned that like the entire album is sang in English or like all the lyrics are mostly in English, which is interesting because Arirang is a really culturally important folk song in Korea with a lot of history behind it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clip of Arirang sung in Korean from Youtube user @Miss_Taex] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think people expected a little bit more of that cultural representation with this album. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I think BTS has also throughout their career really emphasized their Korean-ness, especially because they tend to sample a lot of traditional Korean music, a lot of Korean culture comes into play into their performances. And so I think that it was disappointing for a lot fans to open up this album and hear Teddy Swims in the song. Right? They end on a country song, which is like, possibly the most American form of music that we associate in mainstream culture. We don’t associate country music with Korea. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, right. And it’s a hard thing to follow “K-Pop Demon Hunters.” Just like the way that that movie was such a cultural moment and how it introduced so many people to Korean folklore and Korean culture and Korean language. That was a movie that was in English, but a lot of the songs were in Korean. And a lot people who have never spoken Korean learned those songs. And so it’s interesting that BTS wouldn’t see that and like kind of seize the moment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, 100%. I think that it’s frustrating as a fan to feel like the whole reason that you fell so deeply in love with this group has suddenly shifted under your feet and that the intention of the group’s project didn’t align with where you thought they were going to go. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Okay, well, BTS’s new album, do we save or do we scroll? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think. I’m going to personally scroll on it, but I think that there’s a lot to talk about in terms of like Asian artistry. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s a lot to keep an eye on, but personally, don’t come for me, ARMY. I didn’t like the album. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Me either. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I’m gonna scroll on it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was just bored. I was bored. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m in ARMY. I’m in ARMY-da. And I got the tickets. Any ARMY that wants to come for me and I will see you at MetLife. I’ve got the tickets. And what now? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But you can be disappointed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m disappointed in the album. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re allowed to be disappointed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m disappointed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And you’re allowed to scroll. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I am allowed to scroll on it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, last story for today. The Meta lawsuits. Okay, so Meta faced two separate lawsuits: one in California over social media addiction and one in New Mexico for child safety. The one in California took place in LA and it centered around this 20 year-old woman who said that she became addicted to YouTube and Instagram as a child. And that that greatly affected her mental health.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So Snapchat and TikTok were also both defendants, but they settled before it went to court. And a jury in LA found Google and Meta both negligent because the design of their apps encourages infinite scrolling. And the companies didn’t warn users about the dangers of that. So the plaintiff’s lawyer said that both Meta and Google intentionally target kids and prioritize profit over safety. \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\nThe jury concluded that Meta is liable for $4.2 million in damages, and Google is liable for $1.8 million. And then for the case in New Mexico, the state sued Meta over child safety issues. Former employees testified that underage users were shown sexualized content on Instagram and were exposed to predators. And during the court proceedings, they said that Meta’s decision to encrypt Facebook Messenger blocked access to evidence of predators grooming minors. And basically, this is the first time that New Mexico, as a state, was able to successfully sue Meta. So now Meta was ordered to pay $375 million.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So these lawsuits are being celebrated as huge wins for child safety and kind of taking down these evil tech companies. But I’m kind of skeptical of big companies like Meta and Google actually changing their practices. And whenever I hear like child safety social media lawsuit or like child safety and social media in the same sentence, I’m like, everyone wants kids to be safe. Everyone wants to protect the kids. No one wants to expose kids to predators or inappropriate content. But alarm bells are going off in my head where I’m, like, will they be using this to justify more surveillance and more censorship and more practices like age verification, which we’ve covered a lot on this show. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, it makes sense that there’s a lot of cynicism around these child safety lawsuits because what we’ve seen over our careers is that every time there has been one of these landmark lawsuits, it’s like, what is it actually put into practice? People have been concerned about this topic for many, many years, but it feels like the people who are in Congress still miss the mark on the concept of social media as itself. We’ve seen endless clips of Congress people essentially asking Mark Zuckerberg for tech help during Senate hearings. Yeah. So it makes sense that this verdict, even though it’s being lauded as a huge case, I’m not convinced on it either. We’ve seen Meta pay up a lot in the past, and it hasn’t seemed to really shift the needle at all. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s like, if anything, the practices don’t change. Kids aren’t necessarily safer. And everyone else is a little bit more surveilled and censored, like, with the current wave of age verification requirements, like, sweeping any internet platform whatsoever, where you have to put in your ID to continue using Spotify in some countries and I really distrust that. And, I do kind of worry that like any kind of trying to like ensure child safety on social media will just be used to justify more age verification laws. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, 100%. I think that the solution being trusting big tech to manage more of our data and requests that we give up more of privacy is like, it makes a lot of sense as people who’ve grown up online and we’ve seen this play before. It does, I think, breed more of a culture of surveillance.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think also the problem with this lawsuit is that like, it’s not a silver bullet. Like this is a multi-pronged problem where it’s like a part of it is having adults be smarter about their tech use and teaching their kids to critically analyze the content they’re consuming day in and day out. It’s a lot on the education system.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s on providing structural support for young kids to have more time offline to build all these social skills that when you are isolated and just on your feed even though it can be very fun and exciting to be on Tumblr as a 16-year-old, freewheeling it online, you still need an infrastructure behind you to teach you all these skills that you don’t really get when you are online.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So it’s like a multi-pronged problem. It really is on every adult, regardless of where you stand, if you have kids or not, to try and train yourself to be better about your own skillset, because they’re kids, they’re just imitating whatever resource is there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right, and it’s like, Taylor Lorenz on her Free Speech Friday series pointed out that a lot of kids do still, you still need to let them have agency online in some capacity and just like, you know, a lot kids do rely on these online resources to access information about sex ed or find queer community when they don’t have that in real life and to potentially silo them further and take that away could actually endanger kids. Okay, the child safety lawsuits with Meta and Google, do we save or do we scroll? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I feel like we’re going to have to save it because this is going to continue. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, It’s an evergreen save. This is just collecting more and more tabs every day. Thank you so much for joining us, Steffi. Where can people follow your work? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you so much for having me, Morgan. You can check me out on Instagram at Steffi Cao, S-T-E-F-F-I-C-A-O, and my sub-stack, It’s Steffi. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Perfect, thanks so much. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios, and it’s reported and hosted by me, Morgan Sung. This episode was produced by Chris Egusa, who also composed our theme song and credits music. It was edited by Chris Hambrick. Our team includes producer, Maya Cueva. Additional music by APM. Brendan Willard is our audio engineer. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our director of podcasts. Ethan Toven Lindsey is our editor in chief. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you like these deep dives? Are you closing your tabs? Then don’t forget to rate and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to the show. Maybe drop a comment too. Thanks for listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"slug": "suspect-was-in-apparent-mental-health-crisis-during-attack-on-sam-altmans-house",
"title": "Suspect Was in Apparent Mental Health Crisis During Attack on Sam Altman’s House",
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"headTitle": "Suspect Was in Apparent Mental Health Crisis During Attack on Sam Altman’s House | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>The man accused of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12079446/man-threw-molotov-at-sam-altmans-home-then-threatened-to-burn-down-openai-police-say\">firebombing Sam Altman’s home\u003c/a> was experiencing a mental health crisis when he attacked the OpenAI CEO’s residence and company headquarters last week, his attorneys said Tuesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Following his first court appearance in San Francisco Superior Court, defense attorneys suggested Daniel Moreno-Gama, 20, of Spring, Texas, was overcharged and that his attacks should be tried as property crime.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It is unfair and is unjust for the San Francisco district attorney and the federal government to fearmonger and to exploit the mental illness of a vulnerable young man by turning a vandalism case into an attempted murder life exposure case to gain support of a billionaire,” Deputy Public Defender Diamond Ward said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Moreno-Gama is accused of traveling from Texas to San Francisco to target Altman and his company. Authorities said he threw a Molotov cocktail at the CEO’s Russian Hill home before threatening to burn down OpenAI’s Mission Bay building early Friday morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>No one was harmed in either of the incidents. Moreno-Gama’s attorneys said that there was some damage to a gate at Altman’s house.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Daniel is entitled to due process and fair proceedings. Myself, as well as my co-counsel and the rest of my team, will zealously defend Daniel and seek a just outcome in this case,” Ward told reporters on Tuesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079905\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\" style=\"max-width: 885px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079905\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260414-ALTMAN-ATTACK-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"885\" height=\"540\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260414-ALTMAN-ATTACK-KQED.jpg 885w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260414-ALTMAN-ATTACK-KQED-160x98.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 885px) 100vw, 885px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An image posted by the FBI shows Daniel Moreno-Gama, 20, of Spring, Texas, who authorities allege traveled to San Francisco to target Sam Altman, CEO of OpenAI. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Federal Bureau of Investigations)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Moreno-Gama faces two counts of attempted murder, arson and attempted arson, among other charges, from the San Francisco District Attorney’s office, as well as federal charges for attempted damage and destruction of property by means of explosives and possession of an unregistered firearm, brought by the U.S. Attorney’s office. If found guilty, he could face up to life in prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At a press conference announcing the charges against him on Monday, Matt Cobo, the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s acting special agent in charge of San Francisco, said Moreno-Gama’s actions reflected a “dangerous and deliberate plan to bring violence into San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The defendant is alleged to have traveled across state lines with the intent to go target an individual and a major technology company,” Cobo continued. “This was not spontaneous. This was planned, targeted, and extremely serious.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Moreno-Gama has been in custody since Friday, when he was arrested outside of OpenAI’s San Francisco headquarters. After throwing the Molotov cocktail at Altman’s home, he fled on foot and turned up at the office, where he rammed a chair into the building’s glass doors and threatened to burn it down, killing anybody inside.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>SFPD officers said Moreno-Gama was carrying additional incendiary devices, kerosene and a lighter. He also had a document titled “Your Last Warning,” which identified himself as the author, when he was arrested.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079900\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079900\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/BrookeJenkinsAltmanGetty1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/BrookeJenkinsAltmanGetty1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/BrookeJenkinsAltmanGetty1-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/BrookeJenkinsAltmanGetty1-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">San Francisco District Attorney Brooke Jenkins speaks during a press conference where charges against the suspect in the OpenAI CEO Sam Altman mansion firebombing was announced at SFPD headquarters on Monday, April 13, 2026, in San Francisco. \u003ccite>(Lea Suzuki/San Francisco Chronicle via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The multi-part manifesto allegedly “advocated against AI and for the killing and commission of other crimes against CEOs of AI companies and their investors,” according to the Department of Justice. It also included the names and purported addresses of a number of the sector’s prominent CEOs and investors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The document ended with an admission to attempting to kill Altman, and a letter addressed to the OpenAI CEO, saying, “If by some miracle you live, then I would take this as a sign from the divine to redeem yourself.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cobo said the FBI and SFPD had been in contact with the other AI leaders identified in the manifesto, and did not assess any specific threats toward them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079884\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079884\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanHomeGetty2.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanHomeGetty2.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanHomeGetty2-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanHomeGetty2-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A view of OpenAI CEO Sam Altman’s house in Russian Hill after a suspected Molotov cocktail attack in San Francisco, California, on April 13, 2026. \u003ccite>(Tayfun Coskun/Anadolu via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>U.S. Attorney Craig Missakian said the DOJ’s investigation is still developing. He said the incident could evolve to be treated as an act of domestic terrorism if officials determine that Moreno-Gama acted with intent to sway public policy or coerce government or public officials.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Moreno-Gama did not enter a plea on Tuesday, but will remain in custody without bail until his arraignment in May. A court date for the federal charges hasn’t yet been set.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Judge Kenneth Wine also granted a protective order from the district attorney’s office, ordering Moreno-Gama not to have any contact with the people named in the manifesto, or to encourage anyone directly or indirectly to contact them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s extraordinarily bad,” Wine said of Moreno-Gama’s actions in court.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "The San Francisco Public Defender’s office said 20-year-old Daniel Moreno-Gama was in the midst of acute mental illness when he attacked the OpenAI CEO’s home and offices, and was “overcharged” by local and national authorities.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>The man accused of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12079446/man-threw-molotov-at-sam-altmans-home-then-threatened-to-burn-down-openai-police-say\">firebombing Sam Altman’s home\u003c/a> was experiencing a mental health crisis when he attacked the OpenAI CEO’s residence and company headquarters last week, his attorneys said Tuesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Following his first court appearance in San Francisco Superior Court, defense attorneys suggested Daniel Moreno-Gama, 20, of Spring, Texas, was overcharged and that his attacks should be tried as property crime.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It is unfair and is unjust for the San Francisco district attorney and the federal government to fearmonger and to exploit the mental illness of a vulnerable young man by turning a vandalism case into an attempted murder life exposure case to gain support of a billionaire,” Deputy Public Defender Diamond Ward said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Moreno-Gama is accused of traveling from Texas to San Francisco to target Altman and his company. Authorities said he threw a Molotov cocktail at the CEO’s Russian Hill home before threatening to burn down OpenAI’s Mission Bay building early Friday morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>No one was harmed in either of the incidents. Moreno-Gama’s attorneys said that there was some damage to a gate at Altman’s house.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Daniel is entitled to due process and fair proceedings. Myself, as well as my co-counsel and the rest of my team, will zealously defend Daniel and seek a just outcome in this case,” Ward told reporters on Tuesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079905\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\" style=\"max-width: 885px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079905\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260414-ALTMAN-ATTACK-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"885\" height=\"540\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260414-ALTMAN-ATTACK-KQED.jpg 885w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260414-ALTMAN-ATTACK-KQED-160x98.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 885px) 100vw, 885px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An image posted by the FBI shows Daniel Moreno-Gama, 20, of Spring, Texas, who authorities allege traveled to San Francisco to target Sam Altman, CEO of OpenAI. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Federal Bureau of Investigations)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Moreno-Gama faces two counts of attempted murder, arson and attempted arson, among other charges, from the San Francisco District Attorney’s office, as well as federal charges for attempted damage and destruction of property by means of explosives and possession of an unregistered firearm, brought by the U.S. Attorney’s office. If found guilty, he could face up to life in prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At a press conference announcing the charges against him on Monday, Matt Cobo, the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s acting special agent in charge of San Francisco, said Moreno-Gama’s actions reflected a “dangerous and deliberate plan to bring violence into San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The defendant is alleged to have traveled across state lines with the intent to go target an individual and a major technology company,” Cobo continued. “This was not spontaneous. This was planned, targeted, and extremely serious.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Moreno-Gama has been in custody since Friday, when he was arrested outside of OpenAI’s San Francisco headquarters. After throwing the Molotov cocktail at Altman’s home, he fled on foot and turned up at the office, where he rammed a chair into the building’s glass doors and threatened to burn it down, killing anybody inside.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>SFPD officers said Moreno-Gama was carrying additional incendiary devices, kerosene and a lighter. He also had a document titled “Your Last Warning,” which identified himself as the author, when he was arrested.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079900\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079900\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/BrookeJenkinsAltmanGetty1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/BrookeJenkinsAltmanGetty1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/BrookeJenkinsAltmanGetty1-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/BrookeJenkinsAltmanGetty1-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">San Francisco District Attorney Brooke Jenkins speaks during a press conference where charges against the suspect in the OpenAI CEO Sam Altman mansion firebombing was announced at SFPD headquarters on Monday, April 13, 2026, in San Francisco. \u003ccite>(Lea Suzuki/San Francisco Chronicle via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The multi-part manifesto allegedly “advocated against AI and for the killing and commission of other crimes against CEOs of AI companies and their investors,” according to the Department of Justice. It also included the names and purported addresses of a number of the sector’s prominent CEOs and investors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The document ended with an admission to attempting to kill Altman, and a letter addressed to the OpenAI CEO, saying, “If by some miracle you live, then I would take this as a sign from the divine to redeem yourself.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cobo said the FBI and SFPD had been in contact with the other AI leaders identified in the manifesto, and did not assess any specific threats toward them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079884\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079884\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanHomeGetty2.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanHomeGetty2.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanHomeGetty2-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanHomeGetty2-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A view of OpenAI CEO Sam Altman’s house in Russian Hill after a suspected Molotov cocktail attack in San Francisco, California, on April 13, 2026. \u003ccite>(Tayfun Coskun/Anadolu via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>U.S. Attorney Craig Missakian said the DOJ’s investigation is still developing. He said the incident could evolve to be treated as an act of domestic terrorism if officials determine that Moreno-Gama acted with intent to sway public policy or coerce government or public officials.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Moreno-Gama did not enter a plea on Tuesday, but will remain in custody without bail until his arraignment in May. A court date for the federal charges hasn’t yet been set.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Judge Kenneth Wine also granted a protective order from the district attorney’s office, ordering Moreno-Gama not to have any contact with the people named in the manifesto, or to encourage anyone directly or indirectly to contact them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s extraordinarily bad,” Wine said of Moreno-Gama’s actions in court.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "stanford-study-ai-experts-are-optimistic-about-ai-the-rest-of-us-not-so-much",
"title": "Stanford Study: AI Experts Are Optimistic About AI. The Rest of Us … Not So Much",
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"headTitle": "Stanford Study: AI Experts Are Optimistic About AI. The Rest of Us … Not So Much | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>For nine years now, the \u003ca href=\"https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2026-ai-index-report\">AI Index Report\u003c/a> from the Stanford Institute for Human-Centered AI (HAI) has combed through data from across academia, industry and government to produce an annual snapshot of where artificial intelligence stands, and suggest where it’s heading.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The report covers the biggest technical advances, investments, trends in education, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12078982/google-updates-suicide-self-harm-safeguards-in-gemini-as-ai-lawsuits-mount\">health\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076862/scott-wiener-and-garry-tan-team-up-to-tackle-big-techs-anti-competitive-behavior\">legislation \u003c/a>and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12063587/ai-boom-leads-to-increased-concerns-of-environmental-impacts-of-data-centers\">the environment\u003c/a>, offering an empirical foundation for understanding AI’s rapid evolution and real-world adoption.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2026-ai-index-report\">2026 report\u003c/a> also details a growing tension, especially among Americans: expert excitement about what AI is capable of, and public fear for what it all means for their \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034490/ai-companions-seductive-risk-teens-senators-want-more-guardrails\">personal lives\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076726/ai-is-changing-tech-work-heres-why-it-matters-for-the-rest-of-us\">jobs\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Are we well-positioned as a society to manage its direction, absorb its disruption and ultimately decide how we’re going to leverage this technology?” said Sha Sajadieh, who leads the AI Index for Stanford’s Institute for Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She added that the general public needs to channel their fear of the unknown, not to mention news of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11939910/a-layoff-spree-at-bay-area-tech-companies\">mass layoffs\u003c/a> in one industry after another, and move past reactivity to take advantage of the best AI has to offer. “Part of that is up-skilling at every age, in every way. There’s a lot of opportunity, but the onus is on us to fully realize the opportunity this technology presents us, and understand it.”[aside postID=news_12079267 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c.jpg']The survey is considered a must-read for policymakers in academia, business and politics. But as transparency from top AI developers declines, Sajadieh acknowledged it’s harder to know what needs to be addressed, especially with regulation or legislation, “for us to understand what risks we want to mitigate first as a society.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Enthusiasm and evangelism around AI have relegated considerations about how to responsibly manage its applications and use cases to the back burner,” Stephen Baiter, executive director of the East Bay Economic Development Alliance, wrote KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He observed that jobs tied to the physical world, especially in areas like construction, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076753/northern-california-kaiser-therapists-hold-1-day-strike-over-ai-patient-care-concerns\">health care\u003c/a>, and public safety, seem to be at the least risk of disruption. But he has concerns beyond AI’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076726/ai-is-changing-tech-work-heres-why-it-matters-for-the-rest-of-us\">immediate impacts on labor\u003c/a> markets. “There has been strong deference toward delaying or ignoring sensitive core human rights and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12026604/bay-areas-ai-boom-fuels-a-dirty-energy-dilemma/\">quality of life issues\u003c/a> related to individual/personal privacy, safety, and security.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Other critics of AI go further. “The ones who don’t see eye to eye with the leading experts and the general public are the companies themselves, which are engaged in a race to replace humans as quickly as possible,” e-mailed Chase Hardin, spokesman for the non-profit The Future of Life Institute, which is dedicated to reducing global catastrophic and existential risks from transformative technologies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hardin said that public polling is unambiguously negative about the risks of AI. “We can argue about why that is, but the public is \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076608/what-\">deeply skeptical\u003c/a> of the companies themselves, the technology, and it is incredibly anxious about what it means for their children.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Top takeaways of the AI Index Report include:\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong style=\"font-size: 16px\">1. \u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>AI experts and the public have very different perspectives on the technology’s future.\u003c/strong> Assessing AI’s impact on jobs, 73% of U.S. AI experts said the technology’s impacts on jobs are positive, compared with only 23% of the public, a 50 percentage-point gap. Similar divides emerge regarding the economy and medical care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Globally, trust in governments to regulate AI varies. Among surveyed countries, the United States reported the lowest level of trust in its own government to regulate AI, at 31%. Globally, the EU is trusted more than the United States or China to regulate AI effectively.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>2. AI capability is accelerating and reaching more people than ever.\u003c/strong> Private companies built more than 9 in 10 of the world’s most powerful AI models in 2025, and some of those models are now beating human experts on PhD-level science and advanced math exams.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>3. Productivity gains from AI are appearing in many of the same fields where entry-level employment is starting to decline. \u003c/strong>Studies show productivity gains of 14% to 26% in customer support and software development, with weaker or negative effects in tasks requiring more judgment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In software development, where AI’s measured productivity gains are clearest, U.S. developers ages 22 to 25 saw employment fall nearly 20% from 2024, even as the headcount for older developers continues to grow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>4. Students are using AI, but their educational institutions are still playing catch-up. \u003c/strong>Four out of five U.S. high school and college students now \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12053799/not-even-ai-can-save-me-students-teachers-on-ai-this-school-year\">use AI for schoolwork\u003c/a>, but only half of middle and high schools have AI policies in place, and just 6% of teachers say those policies are clear.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12063947\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12063947 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A review of more than 500 clinical AI studies found nearly half relied on exam-style questions instead of real patient data, while just 5% used actual clinical data. \u003ccite>(LPETTET via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>5. AI is transforming clinical health care, but rigorous evidence remains limited. \u003c/strong>AI tools that automatically generate clinical notes from patient visits saw substantial adoption in 2025. Across multiple hospital systems, physicians reported up to 83% less time spent writing notes and significant reductions in burnout.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Beyond certain tools, however, the evidence base for clinical AI remains thin. A review of more than 500 clinical AI studies found that nearly half relied on exam-style questions rather than real patient data, with only 5% using real clinical data.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>6. AI’s environmental footprint is expanding alongside its capabilities.\u003c/strong> Training a single AI model last year generated roughly as much carbon as 16,000 round-trip flights from San Francisco to New York. Researchers estimate that running just one widely-used AI model, GPT-4o, may consume enough water annually to meet the drinking needs of every person in Los Angeles and San Francisco combined.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>7. The United States leads the world in AI investment, but its ability to attract global talent is declining.\u003c/strong> U.S. private AI investment reached $285.9 billion in 2025, more than 23 times the $12.4 billion invested in China — though looking at just private investment figures likely understates China’s total AI spending, given its government guidance funds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The U.S. also led in entrepreneurial activity with 1,953 newly funded AI companies in 2025, more than 10 times the next closest country, which was the U.K. However, the number of AI researchers and developers moving to the U.S. has dropped 89% since 2017, with an 80% decline in the last year alone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>8. The U.S.-China AI model performance gap has effectively closed. \u003c/strong>U.S. and Chinese models have traded the lead multiple times since early 2025.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The U.S. still builds more of the world’s most powerful AI models, but China is publishing more research, filing more patents, and installing more robots in its factories. South Korea stands out for its innovation density, leading the world in AI patents per capita.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>For nine years now, the \u003ca href=\"https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2026-ai-index-report\">AI Index Report\u003c/a> from the Stanford Institute for Human-Centered AI (HAI) has combed through data from across academia, industry and government to produce an annual snapshot of where artificial intelligence stands, and suggest where it’s heading.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The report covers the biggest technical advances, investments, trends in education, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12078982/google-updates-suicide-self-harm-safeguards-in-gemini-as-ai-lawsuits-mount\">health\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076862/scott-wiener-and-garry-tan-team-up-to-tackle-big-techs-anti-competitive-behavior\">legislation \u003c/a>and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12063587/ai-boom-leads-to-increased-concerns-of-environmental-impacts-of-data-centers\">the environment\u003c/a>, offering an empirical foundation for understanding AI’s rapid evolution and real-world adoption.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2026-ai-index-report\">2026 report\u003c/a> also details a growing tension, especially among Americans: expert excitement about what AI is capable of, and public fear for what it all means for their \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034490/ai-companions-seductive-risk-teens-senators-want-more-guardrails\">personal lives\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076726/ai-is-changing-tech-work-heres-why-it-matters-for-the-rest-of-us\">jobs\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Are we well-positioned as a society to manage its direction, absorb its disruption and ultimately decide how we’re going to leverage this technology?” said Sha Sajadieh, who leads the AI Index for Stanford’s Institute for Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She added that the general public needs to channel their fear of the unknown, not to mention news of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11939910/a-layoff-spree-at-bay-area-tech-companies\">mass layoffs\u003c/a> in one industry after another, and move past reactivity to take advantage of the best AI has to offer. “Part of that is up-skilling at every age, in every way. There’s a lot of opportunity, but the onus is on us to fully realize the opportunity this technology presents us, and understand it.”\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The survey is considered a must-read for policymakers in academia, business and politics. But as transparency from top AI developers declines, Sajadieh acknowledged it’s harder to know what needs to be addressed, especially with regulation or legislation, “for us to understand what risks we want to mitigate first as a society.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Enthusiasm and evangelism around AI have relegated considerations about how to responsibly manage its applications and use cases to the back burner,” Stephen Baiter, executive director of the East Bay Economic Development Alliance, wrote KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He observed that jobs tied to the physical world, especially in areas like construction, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076753/northern-california-kaiser-therapists-hold-1-day-strike-over-ai-patient-care-concerns\">health care\u003c/a>, and public safety, seem to be at the least risk of disruption. But he has concerns beyond AI’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076726/ai-is-changing-tech-work-heres-why-it-matters-for-the-rest-of-us\">immediate impacts on labor\u003c/a> markets. “There has been strong deference toward delaying or ignoring sensitive core human rights and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12026604/bay-areas-ai-boom-fuels-a-dirty-energy-dilemma/\">quality of life issues\u003c/a> related to individual/personal privacy, safety, and security.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Other critics of AI go further. “The ones who don’t see eye to eye with the leading experts and the general public are the companies themselves, which are engaged in a race to replace humans as quickly as possible,” e-mailed Chase Hardin, spokesman for the non-profit The Future of Life Institute, which is dedicated to reducing global catastrophic and existential risks from transformative technologies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hardin said that public polling is unambiguously negative about the risks of AI. “We can argue about why that is, but the public is \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076608/what-\">deeply skeptical\u003c/a> of the companies themselves, the technology, and it is incredibly anxious about what it means for their children.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Top takeaways of the AI Index Report include:\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong style=\"font-size: 16px\">1. \u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>AI experts and the public have very different perspectives on the technology’s future.\u003c/strong> Assessing AI’s impact on jobs, 73% of U.S. AI experts said the technology’s impacts on jobs are positive, compared with only 23% of the public, a 50 percentage-point gap. Similar divides emerge regarding the economy and medical care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Globally, trust in governments to regulate AI varies. Among surveyed countries, the United States reported the lowest level of trust in its own government to regulate AI, at 31%. Globally, the EU is trusted more than the United States or China to regulate AI effectively.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>2. AI capability is accelerating and reaching more people than ever.\u003c/strong> Private companies built more than 9 in 10 of the world’s most powerful AI models in 2025, and some of those models are now beating human experts on PhD-level science and advanced math exams.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>3. Productivity gains from AI are appearing in many of the same fields where entry-level employment is starting to decline. \u003c/strong>Studies show productivity gains of 14% to 26% in customer support and software development, with weaker or negative effects in tasks requiring more judgment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In software development, where AI’s measured productivity gains are clearest, U.S. developers ages 22 to 25 saw employment fall nearly 20% from 2024, even as the headcount for older developers continues to grow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>4. Students are using AI, but their educational institutions are still playing catch-up. \u003c/strong>Four out of five U.S. high school and college students now \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12053799/not-even-ai-can-save-me-students-teachers-on-ai-this-school-year\">use AI for schoolwork\u003c/a>, but only half of middle and high schools have AI policies in place, and just 6% of teachers say those policies are clear.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12063947\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12063947 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A review of more than 500 clinical AI studies found nearly half relied on exam-style questions instead of real patient data, while just 5% used actual clinical data. \u003ccite>(LPETTET via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>5. AI is transforming clinical health care, but rigorous evidence remains limited. \u003c/strong>AI tools that automatically generate clinical notes from patient visits saw substantial adoption in 2025. Across multiple hospital systems, physicians reported up to 83% less time spent writing notes and significant reductions in burnout.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Beyond certain tools, however, the evidence base for clinical AI remains thin. A review of more than 500 clinical AI studies found that nearly half relied on exam-style questions rather than real patient data, with only 5% using real clinical data.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>6. AI’s environmental footprint is expanding alongside its capabilities.\u003c/strong> Training a single AI model last year generated roughly as much carbon as 16,000 round-trip flights from San Francisco to New York. Researchers estimate that running just one widely-used AI model, GPT-4o, may consume enough water annually to meet the drinking needs of every person in Los Angeles and San Francisco combined.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>7. The United States leads the world in AI investment, but its ability to attract global talent is declining.\u003c/strong> U.S. private AI investment reached $285.9 billion in 2025, more than 23 times the $12.4 billion invested in China — though looking at just private investment figures likely understates China’s total AI spending, given its government guidance funds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The U.S. also led in entrepreneurial activity with 1,953 newly funded AI companies in 2025, more than 10 times the next closest country, which was the U.K. However, the number of AI researchers and developers moving to the U.S. has dropped 89% since 2017, with an 80% decline in the last year alone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>8. The U.S.-China AI model performance gap has effectively closed. \u003c/strong>U.S. and Chinese models have traded the lead multiple times since early 2025.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The U.S. still builds more of the world’s most powerful AI models, but China is publishing more research, filing more patents, and installing more robots in its factories. South Korea stands out for its innovation density, leading the world in AI patents per capita.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"slug": "at-sf-state-a-campus-protest-movement-gives-birth-to-an-emboldened-student-union",
"title": "At SF State, a Campus Protest Movement Gives Birth to an Emboldened Student Union",
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"headTitle": "At SF State, a Campus Protest Movement Gives Birth to an Emboldened Student Union | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>When pro-Palestinian student protests swept college campuses across the country two years ago, the movement at \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/san-francisco-state-university\">San Francisco State University\u003c/a> was an outlier.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Elsewhere, many of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11984203/pro-palestinian-protests-sweep-california-college-campuses-amid-israel-hamas-war\">campus encampments and demonstrations\u003c/a> against Israel’s war on Gaza had led to clashes with administrators or violent crackdowns by law enforcement. Meanwhile, at SF State, President Lynn Mahoney sat down in front of hundreds on Malcolm X Plaza for what was believed to have been a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11985130/sfsu-president-begins-negotiations-with-campus-gaza-protesters\">first-of-its-kind public negotiation session\u003c/a> between school leaders and students, which led to a change to the school’s endowment investment policy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We are one of the only schools in the entire nation that got divestment,” said Sam Silva, a graduate student in SF State’s communication studies department. “That is a pretty huge deal.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This week, Mahoney again sat across from a panel of five students to negotiate on a package of broader demands, including protections for undocumented students, transparency around campus funding cuts and improvements to dorm conditions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The SFSU Student Union won the session, one of the advocacy groups that led the university’s pro-Palestinian protest movement in 2024. Since the organization has evolved, applying the lessons learned two years ago to their continued push to represent students before campus administrators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Many of us have learned from the encampment, and learned how to win,” said Brian Yan, a media liaison for the Student Union. Last semester, he said, more than 180 students, graduate students and workers gathered for a Student Union “general assembly” to begin discussing the demands they negotiated this week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079189\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079189 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-07-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-07-BL_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-07-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-07-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">SFSU President Lynn Mahoney speaks with a student negotiating team in Malcolm X Plaza at San Francisco State University on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We know that we need as many students as we can possibly get,” he said. “When you see almost 200 people sitting right outside your building, saying, ‘If we don’t get [a negotiating session] we will escalate,’ I think that compels administrators to come out and bargain.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over the last two years, the group has focused on broadening campus support.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At weekly general meetings, leaders share updates, host trainings and discuss relevant news and articles. Throughout the 2025-26 school year, the organization has also built up at least nine smaller department unions, which aim to engage a wider swath of students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A group of students in the Department of Broadcast and Electronic Communication Arts launched a \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/4ncPsxmp99mU4e7SOPGnyq\">podcast\u003c/a> that ran six episodes last year, amplifying the Student Union and its departments’ platforms. Students also chat and share updates on a Substack page and Slack channel.[aside postID=news_12002307 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240829-SFSUGazarally-JY-011-1020x680.jpg']“We have our student government, and I think that functions kind of like the government. Our job is to really try to talk to the students on campus and figure out what issues they’re actually facing and how we can address them in a way that a union might, with a mass movement,” said Kenna Klop-Packel, a member of the Student Union’s leadership team.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Klop-Packel said she was already part of a student group called Mathematistas, which focused on community-building and gender equity in the math department. In the fall, the organization added the broader interests of the Student Union to its focus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I saw, and I think the people around me also saw that this is one way that we could support equity in mathematics,” Klop-Packel said, adding that many of the organizations’ goals aligned.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the math department, Klop-Packel said calculus class sizes have tripled in recent years. Other courses have more limited availability.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The people that are going to first fall through the cracks are the people who already didn’t feel at home in the math department,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The math union meets weekly, and in addition to the Mathematistas’ former community building and department-specific events, it now also “practices classroom conversations, how to explain to our classmates about these issues, and what the Student Union is doing, how we’re fighting back,” Klop-Packel told KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079196\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079196 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-23-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-23-BL_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-23-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-23-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Student demands are displayed on a banner while a student negotiating team speaks with SFSU President Lynn Mahoney and Provost Amy Sueyoshi in Malcolm X Plaza at San Francisco State University on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>At the first public negotiation session in 2024, representatives of the SFSU Students for Palestine Encampment urged changes to the university’s endowment investment policy and asked administrators to declare a genocide in Gaza.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That August, the campus announced it \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12002307/san-francisco-state-divests-from-weapons-makers-after-working-with-student-activists\">would divest from four companies\u003c/a>: weapons manufacturers Lockheed Martin and Leonardo, data analysis company and military contractor Palantir, and construction equipment maker Caterpillar. In December, it adopted a new investment policy with limitations on companies that profit from weapons manufacturing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last fall, the Student Union launched its second major negotiating campaign with a series of general assemblies. That led to the list of five demands, including increased budget transparency, that students sent to administrators in March and discussed with Mahoney and Provost Amy Sueyoshi on Wednesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Vi Lee, another member of the Student Union’s leadership team, said the focus on campus finances was a “logical next step” for the group, which formed the year before the pro-Palestinian protest movement in response to tuition hikes across the California State University system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079190\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079190 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-10-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-10-BL_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-10-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-10-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">SFSU Provost Amy Sueyoshi speaks with a student negotiating team in Malcolm X Plaza at San Francisco State University on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“Those issues had not gone away, they’d only gotten worse,” Lee said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Between 2019 and 2024, the campus \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12018149/san-francisco-state-students-faculty-mourn-job-cuts-funeral-march\">cut more than 1,000 course sections\u003c/a> and let go of 155 lecturers whose positions rely on those classes. In December, it offered buyouts to tenured and tenure-track faculty who have worked at the school for at least five years in the face of a $20 million budget deficit, \u003ca href=\"https://goldengatexpress.org/114511/news/campus/sfsu-offers-buyouts-to-all-tenure-track-and-tenured-faculty/\">according to the \u003cem>Golden Gate Xpress\u003c/em>\u003c/a>, a student news outlet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In spring 2027, SF State plans to discontinue or suspend a dozen undergraduate degree programs as well as a handful of master’s programs and minors. University spokesperson Bobby King said those cuts are meant to realign resources with enrollment demand and aren’t related to the budget. A decade ago, enrollment hovered just under 30,000 students, down to just over 20,700 this year, according to campus data.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079193\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079193\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-19-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-19-BL_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-19-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-19-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Students walk through the San Francisco State University campus on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The students have asked for the university to halt future class and program cuts and provide transparency around the budget shortfall.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They also brought forward four other wide-ranging demands: changes to the school’s policies surrounding AI, a public statement affirming that the school won’t hand over to the federal government the names of students and faculty who participate in political actions, new protections for students against Immigration and Customs Enforcement and improved conditions in dorms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The group said the list represents students’ “collective working and educational issues on campus.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During Wednesday’s hourlong session, no campus policy changes were made. Afterward, however, Mahoney said she believed some of the students’ demands would bring about changes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079187\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079187 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-03-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-03-BL_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-03-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-03-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A student negotiating team speaks with SFSU President Lynn Mahoney and Provost Amy Sueyoshi in Malcolm X Plaza at San Francisco State University on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“I think we do need to set rules for AI, and I think students and faculty and staff have to participate in those rules. I also think we need to continue to work really closely with our undocumented students and their allies to do the best we can for them at a hard moment,” she told KQED. “I think that there’s a lot of agreement. There will not be full agreement, but hopefully enough that the students continue what they’ve always done here, which is work really hard to leave San Francisco State better than they found it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Student Union plans to hold another general assembly to debrief the negotiations and determine next steps next week. But, Yan said, the Wednesday session had already accomplished at least one of the group’s goals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Every single student can see what administrators say, and hold them to account when they do make proposals … when they lie, when they make up excuses, and see when they’re not providing enough for their students,” he told KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>When pro-Palestinian student protests swept college campuses across the country two years ago, the movement at \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/san-francisco-state-university\">San Francisco State University\u003c/a> was an outlier.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Elsewhere, many of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11984203/pro-palestinian-protests-sweep-california-college-campuses-amid-israel-hamas-war\">campus encampments and demonstrations\u003c/a> against Israel’s war on Gaza had led to clashes with administrators or violent crackdowns by law enforcement. Meanwhile, at SF State, President Lynn Mahoney sat down in front of hundreds on Malcolm X Plaza for what was believed to have been a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11985130/sfsu-president-begins-negotiations-with-campus-gaza-protesters\">first-of-its-kind public negotiation session\u003c/a> between school leaders and students, which led to a change to the school’s endowment investment policy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We are one of the only schools in the entire nation that got divestment,” said Sam Silva, a graduate student in SF State’s communication studies department. “That is a pretty huge deal.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This week, Mahoney again sat across from a panel of five students to negotiate on a package of broader demands, including protections for undocumented students, transparency around campus funding cuts and improvements to dorm conditions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The SFSU Student Union won the session, one of the advocacy groups that led the university’s pro-Palestinian protest movement in 2024. Since the organization has evolved, applying the lessons learned two years ago to their continued push to represent students before campus administrators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Many of us have learned from the encampment, and learned how to win,” said Brian Yan, a media liaison for the Student Union. Last semester, he said, more than 180 students, graduate students and workers gathered for a Student Union “general assembly” to begin discussing the demands they negotiated this week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079189\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079189 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-07-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-07-BL_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-07-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-07-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">SFSU President Lynn Mahoney speaks with a student negotiating team in Malcolm X Plaza at San Francisco State University on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We know that we need as many students as we can possibly get,” he said. “When you see almost 200 people sitting right outside your building, saying, ‘If we don’t get [a negotiating session] we will escalate,’ I think that compels administrators to come out and bargain.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over the last two years, the group has focused on broadening campus support.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At weekly general meetings, leaders share updates, host trainings and discuss relevant news and articles. Throughout the 2025-26 school year, the organization has also built up at least nine smaller department unions, which aim to engage a wider swath of students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A group of students in the Department of Broadcast and Electronic Communication Arts launched a \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/4ncPsxmp99mU4e7SOPGnyq\">podcast\u003c/a> that ran six episodes last year, amplifying the Student Union and its departments’ platforms. Students also chat and share updates on a Substack page and Slack channel.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“We have our student government, and I think that functions kind of like the government. Our job is to really try to talk to the students on campus and figure out what issues they’re actually facing and how we can address them in a way that a union might, with a mass movement,” said Kenna Klop-Packel, a member of the Student Union’s leadership team.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Klop-Packel said she was already part of a student group called Mathematistas, which focused on community-building and gender equity in the math department. In the fall, the organization added the broader interests of the Student Union to its focus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I saw, and I think the people around me also saw that this is one way that we could support equity in mathematics,” Klop-Packel said, adding that many of the organizations’ goals aligned.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the math department, Klop-Packel said calculus class sizes have tripled in recent years. Other courses have more limited availability.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The people that are going to first fall through the cracks are the people who already didn’t feel at home in the math department,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The math union meets weekly, and in addition to the Mathematistas’ former community building and department-specific events, it now also “practices classroom conversations, how to explain to our classmates about these issues, and what the Student Union is doing, how we’re fighting back,” Klop-Packel told KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079196\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079196 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-23-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-23-BL_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-23-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-23-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Student demands are displayed on a banner while a student negotiating team speaks with SFSU President Lynn Mahoney and Provost Amy Sueyoshi in Malcolm X Plaza at San Francisco State University on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>At the first public negotiation session in 2024, representatives of the SFSU Students for Palestine Encampment urged changes to the university’s endowment investment policy and asked administrators to declare a genocide in Gaza.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That August, the campus announced it \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12002307/san-francisco-state-divests-from-weapons-makers-after-working-with-student-activists\">would divest from four companies\u003c/a>: weapons manufacturers Lockheed Martin and Leonardo, data analysis company and military contractor Palantir, and construction equipment maker Caterpillar. In December, it adopted a new investment policy with limitations on companies that profit from weapons manufacturing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last fall, the Student Union launched its second major negotiating campaign with a series of general assemblies. That led to the list of five demands, including increased budget transparency, that students sent to administrators in March and discussed with Mahoney and Provost Amy Sueyoshi on Wednesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Vi Lee, another member of the Student Union’s leadership team, said the focus on campus finances was a “logical next step” for the group, which formed the year before the pro-Palestinian protest movement in response to tuition hikes across the California State University system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079190\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079190 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-10-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-10-BL_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-10-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-10-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">SFSU Provost Amy Sueyoshi speaks with a student negotiating team in Malcolm X Plaza at San Francisco State University on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“Those issues had not gone away, they’d only gotten worse,” Lee said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Between 2019 and 2024, the campus \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12018149/san-francisco-state-students-faculty-mourn-job-cuts-funeral-march\">cut more than 1,000 course sections\u003c/a> and let go of 155 lecturers whose positions rely on those classes. In December, it offered buyouts to tenured and tenure-track faculty who have worked at the school for at least five years in the face of a $20 million budget deficit, \u003ca href=\"https://goldengatexpress.org/114511/news/campus/sfsu-offers-buyouts-to-all-tenure-track-and-tenured-faculty/\">according to the \u003cem>Golden Gate Xpress\u003c/em>\u003c/a>, a student news outlet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In spring 2027, SF State plans to discontinue or suspend a dozen undergraduate degree programs as well as a handful of master’s programs and minors. University spokesperson Bobby King said those cuts are meant to realign resources with enrollment demand and aren’t related to the budget. A decade ago, enrollment hovered just under 30,000 students, down to just over 20,700 this year, according to campus data.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079193\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079193\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-19-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-19-BL_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-19-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-19-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Students walk through the San Francisco State University campus on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The students have asked for the university to halt future class and program cuts and provide transparency around the budget shortfall.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They also brought forward four other wide-ranging demands: changes to the school’s policies surrounding AI, a public statement affirming that the school won’t hand over to the federal government the names of students and faculty who participate in political actions, new protections for students against Immigration and Customs Enforcement and improved conditions in dorms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The group said the list represents students’ “collective working and educational issues on campus.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During Wednesday’s hourlong session, no campus policy changes were made. Afterward, however, Mahoney said she believed some of the students’ demands would bring about changes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079187\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079187 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-03-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-03-BL_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-03-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-03-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A student negotiating team speaks with SFSU President Lynn Mahoney and Provost Amy Sueyoshi in Malcolm X Plaza at San Francisco State University on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“I think we do need to set rules for AI, and I think students and faculty and staff have to participate in those rules. I also think we need to continue to work really closely with our undocumented students and their allies to do the best we can for them at a hard moment,” she told KQED. “I think that there’s a lot of agreement. There will not be full agreement, but hopefully enough that the students continue what they’ve always done here, which is work really hard to leave San Francisco State better than they found it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Student Union plans to hold another general assembly to debrief the negotiations and determine next steps next week. But, Yan said, the Wednesday session had already accomplished at least one of the group’s goals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Every single student can see what administrators say, and hold them to account when they do make proposals … when they lie, when they make up excuses, and see when they’re not providing enough for their students,” he told KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>As a growing number of lawsuits allege AI chatbots are cultivating emotional dependency loops with humans, Alphabet’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/google\">Google\u003c/a> announced it will direct Gemini chatbot users to a support hotline if the conversation indicates a “potential crisis related to suicide or self-harm.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a\u003ca href=\"https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/technology/health/mental-health-updates/\"> blog post\u003c/a>, Google wrote that Gemini will introduce a redesigned “Help is available” feature, developed in collaboration with clinical experts. “Once the interface is activated, the option to reach out for professional help will remain clearly available throughout the remainder of the conversation,” the post stated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Google wrote that it has trained Gemini “not to agree with or reinforce false beliefs, and instead gently distinguish subjective experience from objective fact.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Psychologically vulnerable people turning to chatbots to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12049674\">go down rabbit holes\u003c/a> could have been predicted, according to Jennifer King, a privacy and data policy fellow at the Stanford Institute for Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence. “To some extent, you can anticipate some of the harms we see,” she told KQED. “We’ve seen people acting bad with technology across a variety of behaviors for a very long time.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although the blog post does not mention lawsuits, the family of a 36-year-old man who died in Florida\u003ca href=\"https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-03-04/google-gemini-accused-of-coaching-user-to-suicide-in-new-suit\"> sued Google\u003c/a> in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California last month, claiming that his use of Gemini devolved into a “\u003ca href=\"https://news.bloomberglaw.com/artificial-intelligence/google-gemini-accused-of-coaching-user-to-suicide-in-new-suit\">four-day descent into violent missions and coached suicide\u003c/a>.” At the time, Google said the chatbot repeatedly referred the man to a crisis hotline, but the company also promised to improve Gemini’s safeguards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.youtube.com/embed/DR-vBOsyQPE\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Google is \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12063401/openai-faces-legal-storm-over-claims-its-ai-drove-users-to-suicide-delusions\">not the only AI developer\u003c/a> facing lawsuits over allegations that its chatbots encourage some users to form obsessive relationships with them, feed delusions and even contribute to plans for suicide or murder. Research also suggests users\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12038154/kids-talking-ai-companion-chatbots-stanford-researchers-say-thats-bad-idea\"> form intense, quasi-romantic bonds\u003c/a> with chatbots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The guardrails are obviously necessary, King said. “There have been many cases of users experiencing psychosis and other problems,” she added, noting the sycophancy or agreeability built into the chatbots’ design encourages unstable behavior, “as well as their propensity to get people to believe things that just aren’t true.”[aside postID=news_12069286 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/01/OpenAI.jpg']Guadalupe Hayes-Mota, director of the bioethics program at Santa Clara University, wants to see proof that AI chatbot developers are using clinically validated guidelines for interactions where mental health care is an issue. “Who’s actually making the decision when the crisis pops up for the individual, and how is that being done?” he asked.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s an awful lot of people who study these things,” King said. “But they’re often not consulted. They’re not part of the process.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the past year and a half, OpenAI and Anthropic have also adjusted their mental-health guardrails, amid growing public scrutiny and lawsuits. Experts say that in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12059714/newsom-vetoes-most-watched-childrens-ai-bill-signs-16-others-targeting-tech\">absence of federal regulation\u003c/a>, court rulings appear to be most effectively inspiring tech companies to take proactive measures like Google’s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In March, a Los Angeles jury found Meta and YouTube negligent in a case centered around \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12063401/openai-faces-legal-storm-over-claims-its-ai-drove-users-to-suicide-delusions\">social media addiction\u003c/a>, using arguments centered around product liability and negligence — sidestepping Section 230, a longstanding legal shield that protects platforms from liability for harmful content that users post.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "The updated mental health support features arrive on the heels of lawsuits alleging that Alphabet’s Google, as well as rivals like OpenAI, design chatbots that lead users to self-harm.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>As a growing number of lawsuits allege AI chatbots are cultivating emotional dependency loops with humans, Alphabet’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/google\">Google\u003c/a> announced it will direct Gemini chatbot users to a support hotline if the conversation indicates a “potential crisis related to suicide or self-harm.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a\u003ca href=\"https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/technology/health/mental-health-updates/\"> blog post\u003c/a>, Google wrote that Gemini will introduce a redesigned “Help is available” feature, developed in collaboration with clinical experts. “Once the interface is activated, the option to reach out for professional help will remain clearly available throughout the remainder of the conversation,” the post stated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Google wrote that it has trained Gemini “not to agree with or reinforce false beliefs, and instead gently distinguish subjective experience from objective fact.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Psychologically vulnerable people turning to chatbots to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12049674\">go down rabbit holes\u003c/a> could have been predicted, according to Jennifer King, a privacy and data policy fellow at the Stanford Institute for Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence. “To some extent, you can anticipate some of the harms we see,” she told KQED. “We’ve seen people acting bad with technology across a variety of behaviors for a very long time.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although the blog post does not mention lawsuits, the family of a 36-year-old man who died in Florida\u003ca href=\"https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-03-04/google-gemini-accused-of-coaching-user-to-suicide-in-new-suit\"> sued Google\u003c/a> in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California last month, claiming that his use of Gemini devolved into a “\u003ca href=\"https://news.bloomberglaw.com/artificial-intelligence/google-gemini-accused-of-coaching-user-to-suicide-in-new-suit\">four-day descent into violent missions and coached suicide\u003c/a>.” At the time, Google said the chatbot repeatedly referred the man to a crisis hotline, but the company also promised to improve Gemini’s safeguards.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/DR-vBOsyQPE'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/DR-vBOsyQPE'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>Google is \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12063401/openai-faces-legal-storm-over-claims-its-ai-drove-users-to-suicide-delusions\">not the only AI developer\u003c/a> facing lawsuits over allegations that its chatbots encourage some users to form obsessive relationships with them, feed delusions and even contribute to plans for suicide or murder. Research also suggests users\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12038154/kids-talking-ai-companion-chatbots-stanford-researchers-say-thats-bad-idea\"> form intense, quasi-romantic bonds\u003c/a> with chatbots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The guardrails are obviously necessary, King said. “There have been many cases of users experiencing psychosis and other problems,” she added, noting the sycophancy or agreeability built into the chatbots’ design encourages unstable behavior, “as well as their propensity to get people to believe things that just aren’t true.”\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Guadalupe Hayes-Mota, director of the bioethics program at Santa Clara University, wants to see proof that AI chatbot developers are using clinically validated guidelines for interactions where mental health care is an issue. “Who’s actually making the decision when the crisis pops up for the individual, and how is that being done?” he asked.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s an awful lot of people who study these things,” King said. “But they’re often not consulted. They’re not part of the process.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the past year and a half, OpenAI and Anthropic have also adjusted their mental-health guardrails, amid growing public scrutiny and lawsuits. Experts say that in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12059714/newsom-vetoes-most-watched-childrens-ai-bill-signs-16-others-targeting-tech\">absence of federal regulation\u003c/a>, court rulings appear to be most effectively inspiring tech companies to take proactive measures like Google’s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In March, a Los Angeles jury found Meta and YouTube negligent in a case centered around \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12063401/openai-faces-legal-storm-over-claims-its-ai-drove-users-to-suicide-delusions\">social media addiction\u003c/a>, using arguments centered around product liability and negligence — sidestepping Section 230, a longstanding legal shield that protects platforms from liability for harmful content that users post.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "northern-california-kaiser-therapists-hold-1-day-strike-over-ai-patient-care-concerns",
"title": "Northern California Kaiser Therapists Hold 1-Day Strike Over AI, Patient Care Concerns",
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"content": "\u003cp>Up to 2,400 mental health professionals at \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/kaiser-permanente\">Kaiser Permanente\u003c/a> in Northern California are set to hold a one-day strike on Wednesday over what they warn is the company’s increasing use of artificial intelligence to the detriment of patient care and, potentially, of their jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Unions representing tens of thousands of \u003ca href=\"https://www.nationalnursesunited.org/press/kaiser-nurses-to-hold-24-hour-sympathy-strike-in-solidarity-with-kaiser-mental-health-workers\">nurses\u003c/a>, as well as hospital and facility maintenance professionals, announced they will join picket lines in support of the therapists, including psychologists and social workers, in the Bay Area, Central Valley and Sacramento regions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During monthslong labor contract negotiations, Kaiser has proposed making it easier to lay off therapists and has resisted language stating that the company won’t \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1999553/will-ai-replace-your-therapist-kaiser-wont-say-no\">use AI to replace them\u003c/a>, according to the National Union of Healthcare Professionals, which represents the striking mental health employees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s really sad that this is how they are choosing to behave,” said Leemore Federman, a Kaiser therapist in San Leandro who specializes in post-traumatic stress disorder and anxiety and is part of the union’s bargaining team. “If Kaiser wanted to, they have abundant resources to make the mental health department at Kaiser the best, and instead they’re doing everything to make it the worst.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Oakland-based health care giant, which has been under pressure to improve timely access to mental health and substance use disorder services, denies that AI makes any medical or care decisions or is being used to replace therapists.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kaiser said it has invested nearly $2 billion since 2020 to expand mental health facilities, hire and train clinicians, and grow its provider network so its more than 9 million California health plan enrollees can get care faster.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076878\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076878\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-02-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-02-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-02-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-02-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mental health workers strike at the Kaiser Oakland Medical Facility in Oakland on March 18, 2026. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We are growing our workforce, not shrinking it, and our commitment to building a pipeline of trained therapists is unquestionable,” the company said in a statement. “We see technology — and AI, in particular — as a way to support our clinicians in managing their practice and provide them with tools that facilitate greater access to care and connection with patients — all to achieve the best possible outcomes for our patients.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We believe AI can be helpful when it supports clinicians — by reducing administrative work or improving efficiency — but it does not replace clinical judgment or human assessment,” Kaiser said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As the AI boom advances with few guardrails, workers in health care and other industries are feeling anxiety about how their employers may use the technology, said Adam Horwitz, an assistant professor at the University of Michigan’s Department of Psychiatry.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So far, health care companies have introduced AI tools mostly for administrative support tasks, such as note-taking during appointments or patient scheduling, rather than direct patient care. But company decisions to roll out the technology are often happening at high-level meetings behind closed doors without much worker input, which fuels mistrust, he said.[aside postID=news_12072837 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/02/020926_KAISERSTRIKE_8137B-KQED.jpg']“It’s connected to the broader anxiety that we just don’t know where all this is going,” said Horwitz, who studies how digital technologies, including AI, can improve access to care. “Across industries, there’s a lot of like, ‘Well, wait a minute, having these AI things definitely makes money for people at the top at the expense of workers doing the jobs. Why are we all getting in line to just try to keep propelling this forward without having a thoughtful approach to it?’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On Wednesday morning, therapists walked off their jobs and headed to picket lines outside Kaiser facilities in Oakland, Sacramento, Santa Rosa, Santa Clara and Fresno.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In Oakland, Harimandir Khalsa, 55, said her team of clinicians who screen patients seeking mental health services in the Walnut Creek area has been reduced by two-thirds. Instead, Kaiser is increasingly using telephone operators and online surveys or questionnaires that use AI to screen patients.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I have seen firsthand patients who were screened by a telephone service operator and sent to an external referral network. In some cases, they were self-harming … they should never have been sent out, they should have talked to a clinician to assess risk, to come up with safety planning and get them a more urgent appointment,” Khalsa told KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This latest walkout comes about a month after the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12074265/widespread-kaiser-strike-to-end-after-4-weeks-with-no-deal-yet\">end of a four-week strike\u003c/a> that initially involved up to 31,000 nurses, physician assistants, physical therapists, optometrists and other health care employees in California and Hawaii. Those workers are currently voting on whether to ratify tentative agreements the union said included wage increases, as well as staffing and AI protections.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2022, therapists at Kaiser represented by the same union \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11923034/were-drowning-why-kaiser-mental-health-workers-are-striking\">went on strike for 10 weeks\u003c/a>, over concerns about patient care delays, workloads, understaffing and other issues.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076877\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12076877 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-01-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-01-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-01-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-01-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mental health workers strike at the Kaiser Oakland Medical Facility in Oakland on March 18, 2026. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Kaiser has agreed to multimillion-dollar settlements with state and federal regulators in recent years related to long wait times for patients seeking mental health services. Last month, the U.S. Department of Labor \u003ca href=\"https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/ebsa/ebsa20260210\">announced \u003c/a>the company will pay a $2.8 million penalty, and at least $28.3 million to reimburse patients who sought out-of-network care after Kaiser delayed or improperly denied care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2023, the state’s largest health plan said it would invest $150 million over five years to improve behavioral health for its patients and pay a $50 million fine to resolve a California Department of Managed Health Care \u003ca href=\"https://wpso.dmhc.ca.gov/enfactions/docs/4367/1697136977902.pdf\">investigation\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A spokesperson for the agency, which oversees mental health services in the state, said it is monitoring Kaiser’s progress and investigating a union \u003ca href=\"https://nuhw.org/wp-content/uploads/NUHW-Complaint_DMHC_NorCalTriageServices_2025.docx-1.pdf\">complaint\u003c/a> alleging that Kaiser is flouting a state law requiring licensed health care professionals to initially assess patients to determine what care they need.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>UNHW maintains that beginning in 2024, Kaiser changed how it screens patients when they call or go online seeking care. The company unilaterally replaced many trained clinicians with unqualified telephone operators and an online questionnaire with AI to make recommendations on next steps, according to the union, which considers the move an unfair labor practice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076882\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076882\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-06-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-06-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-06-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-06-KQED-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mental health workers strike at the Kaiser Oakland Medical Facility in Oakland on March 18, 2026. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Federman, the therapist in San Leandro, said the new system is missing high-risk patients, making them wait longer than recommended to see a provider.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m seeing a lot of people, where it’s like, ‘wow, they’re really acute,’ and by the time triage [sends them], it’s been a month that they’ve waited — and that’s really dangerous,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The therapists’ contract with Kaiser ended last September. During bargaining, the company has sought to eliminate current workload limits that allow therapists to have enough time to care for existing patients, Federman said. She worries that the employer may seek to lay off in-house therapists and increasingly refer patients to outside contractors, who won’t offer the same quality of integrated care Kaiser advertises.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The nonprofit health organization countered that it is seeking flexibility to adjust to a “higher than ever” demand for its services, and does not plan to eliminate therapists’ jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Our contract proposals are aimed at achieving the flexibility we and our therapists need to improve mental health access for our members even as patient needs continue to rise,” the company’s statement said. “We have nearly doubled our mental health workforce over the last 10 years and have never had a reduction-in-force of mental health clinicians in Northern California.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Up to 2,400 mental health professionals at \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/kaiser-permanente\">Kaiser Permanente\u003c/a> in Northern California are set to hold a one-day strike on Wednesday over what they warn is the company’s increasing use of artificial intelligence to the detriment of patient care and, potentially, of their jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Unions representing tens of thousands of \u003ca href=\"https://www.nationalnursesunited.org/press/kaiser-nurses-to-hold-24-hour-sympathy-strike-in-solidarity-with-kaiser-mental-health-workers\">nurses\u003c/a>, as well as hospital and facility maintenance professionals, announced they will join picket lines in support of the therapists, including psychologists and social workers, in the Bay Area, Central Valley and Sacramento regions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During monthslong labor contract negotiations, Kaiser has proposed making it easier to lay off therapists and has resisted language stating that the company won’t \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1999553/will-ai-replace-your-therapist-kaiser-wont-say-no\">use AI to replace them\u003c/a>, according to the National Union of Healthcare Professionals, which represents the striking mental health employees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s really sad that this is how they are choosing to behave,” said Leemore Federman, a Kaiser therapist in San Leandro who specializes in post-traumatic stress disorder and anxiety and is part of the union’s bargaining team. “If Kaiser wanted to, they have abundant resources to make the mental health department at Kaiser the best, and instead they’re doing everything to make it the worst.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Oakland-based health care giant, which has been under pressure to improve timely access to mental health and substance use disorder services, denies that AI makes any medical or care decisions or is being used to replace therapists.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kaiser said it has invested nearly $2 billion since 2020 to expand mental health facilities, hire and train clinicians, and grow its provider network so its more than 9 million California health plan enrollees can get care faster.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076878\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076878\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-02-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-02-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-02-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-02-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mental health workers strike at the Kaiser Oakland Medical Facility in Oakland on March 18, 2026. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We are growing our workforce, not shrinking it, and our commitment to building a pipeline of trained therapists is unquestionable,” the company said in a statement. “We see technology — and AI, in particular — as a way to support our clinicians in managing their practice and provide them with tools that facilitate greater access to care and connection with patients — all to achieve the best possible outcomes for our patients.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We believe AI can be helpful when it supports clinicians — by reducing administrative work or improving efficiency — but it does not replace clinical judgment or human assessment,” Kaiser said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As the AI boom advances with few guardrails, workers in health care and other industries are feeling anxiety about how their employers may use the technology, said Adam Horwitz, an assistant professor at the University of Michigan’s Department of Psychiatry.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So far, health care companies have introduced AI tools mostly for administrative support tasks, such as note-taking during appointments or patient scheduling, rather than direct patient care. But company decisions to roll out the technology are often happening at high-level meetings behind closed doors without much worker input, which fuels mistrust, he said.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“It’s connected to the broader anxiety that we just don’t know where all this is going,” said Horwitz, who studies how digital technologies, including AI, can improve access to care. “Across industries, there’s a lot of like, ‘Well, wait a minute, having these AI things definitely makes money for people at the top at the expense of workers doing the jobs. Why are we all getting in line to just try to keep propelling this forward without having a thoughtful approach to it?’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On Wednesday morning, therapists walked off their jobs and headed to picket lines outside Kaiser facilities in Oakland, Sacramento, Santa Rosa, Santa Clara and Fresno.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In Oakland, Harimandir Khalsa, 55, said her team of clinicians who screen patients seeking mental health services in the Walnut Creek area has been reduced by two-thirds. Instead, Kaiser is increasingly using telephone operators and online surveys or questionnaires that use AI to screen patients.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I have seen firsthand patients who were screened by a telephone service operator and sent to an external referral network. In some cases, they were self-harming … they should never have been sent out, they should have talked to a clinician to assess risk, to come up with safety planning and get them a more urgent appointment,” Khalsa told KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This latest walkout comes about a month after the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12074265/widespread-kaiser-strike-to-end-after-4-weeks-with-no-deal-yet\">end of a four-week strike\u003c/a> that initially involved up to 31,000 nurses, physician assistants, physical therapists, optometrists and other health care employees in California and Hawaii. Those workers are currently voting on whether to ratify tentative agreements the union said included wage increases, as well as staffing and AI protections.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2022, therapists at Kaiser represented by the same union \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11923034/were-drowning-why-kaiser-mental-health-workers-are-striking\">went on strike for 10 weeks\u003c/a>, over concerns about patient care delays, workloads, understaffing and other issues.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076877\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12076877 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-01-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-01-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-01-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-01-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mental health workers strike at the Kaiser Oakland Medical Facility in Oakland on March 18, 2026. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Kaiser has agreed to multimillion-dollar settlements with state and federal regulators in recent years related to long wait times for patients seeking mental health services. Last month, the U.S. Department of Labor \u003ca href=\"https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/ebsa/ebsa20260210\">announced \u003c/a>the company will pay a $2.8 million penalty, and at least $28.3 million to reimburse patients who sought out-of-network care after Kaiser delayed or improperly denied care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2023, the state’s largest health plan said it would invest $150 million over five years to improve behavioral health for its patients and pay a $50 million fine to resolve a California Department of Managed Health Care \u003ca href=\"https://wpso.dmhc.ca.gov/enfactions/docs/4367/1697136977902.pdf\">investigation\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A spokesperson for the agency, which oversees mental health services in the state, said it is monitoring Kaiser’s progress and investigating a union \u003ca href=\"https://nuhw.org/wp-content/uploads/NUHW-Complaint_DMHC_NorCalTriageServices_2025.docx-1.pdf\">complaint\u003c/a> alleging that Kaiser is flouting a state law requiring licensed health care professionals to initially assess patients to determine what care they need.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>UNHW maintains that beginning in 2024, Kaiser changed how it screens patients when they call or go online seeking care. The company unilaterally replaced many trained clinicians with unqualified telephone operators and an online questionnaire with AI to make recommendations on next steps, according to the union, which considers the move an unfair labor practice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076882\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076882\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-06-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-06-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-06-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-06-KQED-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mental health workers strike at the Kaiser Oakland Medical Facility in Oakland on March 18, 2026. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Federman, the therapist in San Leandro, said the new system is missing high-risk patients, making them wait longer than recommended to see a provider.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m seeing a lot of people, where it’s like, ‘wow, they’re really acute,’ and by the time triage [sends them], it’s been a month that they’ve waited — and that’s really dangerous,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The therapists’ contract with Kaiser ended last September. During bargaining, the company has sought to eliminate current workload limits that allow therapists to have enough time to care for existing patients, Federman said. She worries that the employer may seek to lay off in-house therapists and increasingly refer patients to outside contractors, who won’t offer the same quality of integrated care Kaiser advertises.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The nonprofit health organization countered that it is seeking flexibility to adjust to a “higher than ever” demand for its services, and does not plan to eliminate therapists’ jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Our contract proposals are aimed at achieving the flexibility we and our therapists need to improve mental health access for our members even as patient needs continue to rise,” the company’s statement said. “We have nearly doubled our mental health workforce over the last 10 years and have never had a reduction-in-force of mental health clinicians in Northern California.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Artificial intelligence has rapidly changed what tech workers in the Bay Area do every day. Whether you’re a software engineer or you work in sales, most employees at tech firms are expected to regularly use AI.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Rya Jetha with the San Francisco Standard explains how AI is affecting tech employees across the industry, and how these changes could be a sign of what’s to come for the rest of us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://sfstandard.com/2026/02/19/ai-writes-code-now-s-left-software-engineers/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">AI writes the code now. What’s left for software engineers?\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://sfstandard.com/2026/03/05/engineer-2025-ai-land-everyone-s-builder-now/\">‘Engineer’ is so 2025. In AI land, everyone’s a ‘builder’ now\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://sfstandard.com/2026/01/28/ai-booming-tech-jobs-san-francisco/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">AI is booming. Tech jobs in San Francisco are not\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC8417277777&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:03] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. If you want a glimpse into what artificial intelligence could mean for the future of work, life for the average tech worker in San Francisco right now is a pretty good place to look.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:26] \u003c/em>Engineering and what’s happening in software engineering is a bellwether for what might happen in other industries. And you see the people building this technology warning about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:38] \u003c/em>Whether you’re writing code or working in sales, almost everyone in tech is expected to use AI. And even those in tech warn that it’s a sign of what’s to come for workers in other industries. Today, how AI is changing work inside the tech industry and why it matters to the rest of us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:10] \u003c/em>For startups and for some medium and big tech companies, and this is specifically in the Bay Area, their CEOs are demanding AI fluency from their workers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:23] \u003c/em>Rya Jetha is a tech culture reporter for the San Francisco Standard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:28] \u003c/em>That basically means you need to come into the job willing to use AI and not being an AI skeptic and also being willing to change your work processes and develop completely different new ways of doing your job using AI. Even if you’re not a software engineer, you are being expected to use a AI. At big old companies, I think for software engineers, it’s you are basically deemed a dinosaur if you’re not using AI coding tools. Andy Jassy, the CEO of Amazon, he recently said that he expects the workforce to be thinned over the next few years because of AI. And he encourages employees to experiment with AI as much as possible and take trainings and play around with it. To basically bulletproof their career, if they don’t want to be one of the casualties of the thinning of the workforce.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:23] \u003c/em>I mean, it sounds like these workers don’t really have a choice to be anything other than pro-AI. I would say that is largely accurate in San Francisco, yeah. I guess what do we mean when we say these workers are using AI in their work?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:41] \u003c/em>For software engineers, it’s basically a must to be using OpenAI codecs or Claude code, which are both coding tools. And you’re basically expected to be deploying multiple agents at a time. And to explain how that works, an agent is basically software that can autonomously do work for you on your behalf end to end. And so as a software engineer, I might be like, ‘OK, this is a problem I have to solve. Go and do it.’ The agent will figure out the best way to do it. It will create a roadmap for itself. It will do it, it will test it, and it will come back to you with everything completely done. When we are thinking about why software engineers are freaked out about AI, it’s because in previous waves of automation, they still had to understand their jobs and design things, even though they were getting the efficiency gains. But some software engineers I’ve spoken to who are rank and file at big tech companies, they’re like, this is fundamentally different. AI has ideas about how to do my own job that I have spent years and years training for. And in many ways, engineers have created the perfect training ground for AI to do their jobs because it’s a fundamentally digital job. And there are huge repositories of code online for AI have been coded on. I think it’s worth discussing how non-technical people are being expected to use AI. So say that I work in sales or marketing or communications, I’m still being expected to play around with AI, whether that’s using AI to make slides or to do research for me or to use it for writing as well. It’s just an expectation now that even non-technical people are even using AI to like do coding, because you can just prompt AI in plain English and it will spin up a website for you or spin up another technical data analysis for you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:45] \u003c/em>I mean, I feel like everyone has feelings about AI one way or another. How would you describe the vibe inside the tech industry in the Bay Area when it comes to AI right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:55] \u003c/em>I think it really depends on whether you’re talking to startups or people at big tech companies or entry-level workers. I think if you talk to some really tech-pilled people who have fully embraced AI, especially people who work at startups, it is extreme excitement because they can suddenly do so much more with so much less. I was talking to one engineer at a startup who basically said he has had so many side project ideas. And he’s been able to execute every single one of them in the past few months. And before, he would have had to employ four software engineers and pay them exorbitant salaries, but now he just has to pay a few hundred bucks to Anthropic to make all of his software dreams come true. I think if you’re an entry-level Woko, you’re feeling extreme despair about the situation. And even when you go on college campuses, People who are majoring in computer science feel uncertain about the world, which in a previous era would have been crazy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:55] \u003c/em>I mean, yeah, I was just telling you before we were recording, one of my closest friends is a software engineer now, and we were just talking about how just 10 years ago, you know, studying computer science was seen as a golden ticket, that it would lead to job security perhaps maybe that more than any other major at the time and and that that meritocracy was real, and now I feel like that’s just completely unfolding for him with AI.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:27] \u003c/em>I was interviewing a computer science professor at UC Berkeley for the story and he said they worked really hard in high school to get into the best computer science programs thinking that it was the golden ticket. They get to college and they work really hard to ace all their computer science classes so they can land that prestigious big tech job and now they’re in those jobs and The promise is not all that it was chalked up to be It’s very existentially upsetting when you sink, you know, anywhere from like four to six years of your life, honing your craft to write good code and suddenly a machine is able to do all of it. People who are trying to get their career started or entry-level workers with not that much experience, it’s a very, very scary time. Coding and software engineering jobs have been totally upended by AI, but at the same time, you now, there’s… There’s always a debate about what job is going to be next.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:31] \u003c/em>Is AI leading to mass layoffs already? Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:45] \u003c/em>I mean, I feel like every week or something, there’s news about layoffs in the tech industry. How much of that has to do with AI taking jobs?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:55] \u003c/em>That is a really good question, and I’m sorry to say, but we don’t know. We’ve heard about a lot of layoffs that was Atlassian block laying off 40% of its workforce a few weeks ago. There have been layoffs at Salesforce and Amazon and Pinterest, and they’ve all blamed it either partially or totally on AI. But I think when I speak to exports, they are very skeptical that these layoffs are actually because of AI. If we think back to the pandemic, there was massive hiring because these tech companies were adapting to this new world that we lived in, in terms of e-commerce and streaming. And they arguably over-hired quite a bit. And so it could be that these layoffs are just a product of that pandemic over- hiring, but to get in the head of a tech executive for a second. You look more, you know, techno futuristic and cool to Wall Street if you are blaming your layoffs on AI and not on the fact that you made a hiring mistake during the pandemic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:03] \u003c/em>Is AI also changing how much work people are expected to do? Like, if you can use AI to code faster, you now have more work to do?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:12] \u003c/em>Software engineers specifically, they are being expected to produce 10 times the amount of code that they were before. And I think this has introduced kind of an interesting problem for rank and file software engineers who, let’s say, are on like the oleo side of their career, they really want to understand what they are doing, but they feel like because of the expectations at their companies, they just have to. Use AI tools to generate that code, and they don’t have time to review it and understand what is going on. I think outside of the more technical domains, people using AI, there have been quite a few studies about this, but people using is increasing workload for people. And if you just think of someone generating a super bad presentation using AI or sending you a really sloppy email to go to a customer, I mean, I hear this from friends. It’s like that one colleague who is super chat GPT-pilled and uses chat GPTs for everything and doesn’t really care about the quality of their work. It’s making some people mad that they have to spend more hours correcting their colleagues. And even when they’re experimenting with tools, if companies are mandating them to experiment with their tools, it’s not like they’re being given half a day to do it. They’re expected to do it on top of their current jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:35] \u003c/em>Right, yeah. They’re very real, like, labor implications with this technology.\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:39] \u003c/em>Totally. Totally. And I think it’s really interesting because with every technological revolution we’ve kind of been promised that like, oh, we will walk less. In the 1930s, John Maynard Keynes also predicted that that technological revolutions would bring in a 15-hour work week and more leisure time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:56] \u003c/em>That sounds so nice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:58] \u003c/em>It sounds so Nice. It doesn’t seem anywhere close though. Because I mean, I think now with AI, people are walking even more than before. And they’re like, oh, where was, where did this promise go? We even walk on the weekends now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:12:16] \u003c/em>I mean, I do think some people might be hearing this and sort of thinking to themselves, like, boo-hoo, the techies are getting all existential because of this tech that in many ways they helped to create or they helped to uplift, but why do you think what is happening among tech workers right now matters to the rest of us?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:12:38] \u003c/em>I think it matters hugely, I think engineering and what’s happening in software engineering is a bellwether for what might happen in other industries. And you see the people building this technology, you’re warning about it. And so I think, even though it’s come for codos forced by virtue of their jobs, there are other careers on the chopping block that aren’t necessarily tech jobs. I mean, customer service agents. Health care. Health care, yeah, lawyers, consultants. And what we’re seeing is that Wall Street is rewarding companies for slashing their workforces. Because a Leno workforce means you have bigger profits, you can reinvest in other things. And so. If CEOs get this like, I want to shave my workforce bug by looking at other companies doing it, I think it could be pretty catastrophic for a lot of people. I mean, I talk to a lot of experts about how this is going to play out, and on the one hand, some are really down on the future. On the other hand, some experts are like, every time there has been a technological transformation or some sort of invention that improves the efficiency of engineering, more software gets built, and it gets democratized. And at a lot of companies, especially, you know… Smaller companies that cannot afford a software engineer and pay them, you know, $300,000 a year Software is the bottleneck Now it is making software cheaper But maybe you still want someone who has technical expertise to build that software for you So it could be that in the future there are way more software engineering jobs than before Maybe there is a future in which we’re gonna go through a small period of transition now and we will live in a world in which there are loads of jobs and there is no long-term disruption to the labor market. And I think that is the big question on everybody’s mind right now is that is this like other technological revolutions or is this fundamentally different.\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Artificial intelligence has rapidly changed what tech workers in the Bay Area do every day. Whether you’re a software engineer or you work in sales, most employees at tech firms are expected to regularly use AI.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Rya Jetha with the San Francisco Standard explains how AI is affecting tech employees across the industry, and how these changes could be a sign of what’s to come for the rest of us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://sfstandard.com/2026/02/19/ai-writes-code-now-s-left-software-engineers/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">AI writes the code now. What’s left for software engineers?\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://sfstandard.com/2026/03/05/engineer-2025-ai-land-everyone-s-builder-now/\">‘Engineer’ is so 2025. In AI land, everyone’s a ‘builder’ now\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://sfstandard.com/2026/01/28/ai-booming-tech-jobs-san-francisco/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">AI is booming. Tech jobs in San Francisco are not\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC8417277777&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:03] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. If you want a glimpse into what artificial intelligence could mean for the future of work, life for the average tech worker in San Francisco right now is a pretty good place to look.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:26] \u003c/em>Engineering and what’s happening in software engineering is a bellwether for what might happen in other industries. And you see the people building this technology warning about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:38] \u003c/em>Whether you’re writing code or working in sales, almost everyone in tech is expected to use AI. And even those in tech warn that it’s a sign of what’s to come for workers in other industries. Today, how AI is changing work inside the tech industry and why it matters to the rest of us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:10] \u003c/em>For startups and for some medium and big tech companies, and this is specifically in the Bay Area, their CEOs are demanding AI fluency from their workers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:23] \u003c/em>Rya Jetha is a tech culture reporter for the San Francisco Standard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:28] \u003c/em>That basically means you need to come into the job willing to use AI and not being an AI skeptic and also being willing to change your work processes and develop completely different new ways of doing your job using AI. Even if you’re not a software engineer, you are being expected to use a AI. At big old companies, I think for software engineers, it’s you are basically deemed a dinosaur if you’re not using AI coding tools. Andy Jassy, the CEO of Amazon, he recently said that he expects the workforce to be thinned over the next few years because of AI. And he encourages employees to experiment with AI as much as possible and take trainings and play around with it. To basically bulletproof their career, if they don’t want to be one of the casualties of the thinning of the workforce.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:23] \u003c/em>I mean, it sounds like these workers don’t really have a choice to be anything other than pro-AI. I would say that is largely accurate in San Francisco, yeah. I guess what do we mean when we say these workers are using AI in their work?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:41] \u003c/em>For software engineers, it’s basically a must to be using OpenAI codecs or Claude code, which are both coding tools. And you’re basically expected to be deploying multiple agents at a time. And to explain how that works, an agent is basically software that can autonomously do work for you on your behalf end to end. And so as a software engineer, I might be like, ‘OK, this is a problem I have to solve. Go and do it.’ The agent will figure out the best way to do it. It will create a roadmap for itself. It will do it, it will test it, and it will come back to you with everything completely done. When we are thinking about why software engineers are freaked out about AI, it’s because in previous waves of automation, they still had to understand their jobs and design things, even though they were getting the efficiency gains. But some software engineers I’ve spoken to who are rank and file at big tech companies, they’re like, this is fundamentally different. AI has ideas about how to do my own job that I have spent years and years training for. And in many ways, engineers have created the perfect training ground for AI to do their jobs because it’s a fundamentally digital job. And there are huge repositories of code online for AI have been coded on. I think it’s worth discussing how non-technical people are being expected to use AI. So say that I work in sales or marketing or communications, I’m still being expected to play around with AI, whether that’s using AI to make slides or to do research for me or to use it for writing as well. It’s just an expectation now that even non-technical people are even using AI to like do coding, because you can just prompt AI in plain English and it will spin up a website for you or spin up another technical data analysis for you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:45] \u003c/em>I mean, I feel like everyone has feelings about AI one way or another. How would you describe the vibe inside the tech industry in the Bay Area when it comes to AI right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:55] \u003c/em>I think it really depends on whether you’re talking to startups or people at big tech companies or entry-level workers. I think if you talk to some really tech-pilled people who have fully embraced AI, especially people who work at startups, it is extreme excitement because they can suddenly do so much more with so much less. I was talking to one engineer at a startup who basically said he has had so many side project ideas. And he’s been able to execute every single one of them in the past few months. And before, he would have had to employ four software engineers and pay them exorbitant salaries, but now he just has to pay a few hundred bucks to Anthropic to make all of his software dreams come true. I think if you’re an entry-level Woko, you’re feeling extreme despair about the situation. And even when you go on college campuses, People who are majoring in computer science feel uncertain about the world, which in a previous era would have been crazy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:55] \u003c/em>I mean, yeah, I was just telling you before we were recording, one of my closest friends is a software engineer now, and we were just talking about how just 10 years ago, you know, studying computer science was seen as a golden ticket, that it would lead to job security perhaps maybe that more than any other major at the time and and that that meritocracy was real, and now I feel like that’s just completely unfolding for him with AI.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:27] \u003c/em>I was interviewing a computer science professor at UC Berkeley for the story and he said they worked really hard in high school to get into the best computer science programs thinking that it was the golden ticket. They get to college and they work really hard to ace all their computer science classes so they can land that prestigious big tech job and now they’re in those jobs and The promise is not all that it was chalked up to be It’s very existentially upsetting when you sink, you know, anywhere from like four to six years of your life, honing your craft to write good code and suddenly a machine is able to do all of it. People who are trying to get their career started or entry-level workers with not that much experience, it’s a very, very scary time. Coding and software engineering jobs have been totally upended by AI, but at the same time, you now, there’s… There’s always a debate about what job is going to be next.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:31] \u003c/em>Is AI leading to mass layoffs already? Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:45] \u003c/em>I mean, I feel like every week or something, there’s news about layoffs in the tech industry. How much of that has to do with AI taking jobs?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:55] \u003c/em>That is a really good question, and I’m sorry to say, but we don’t know. We’ve heard about a lot of layoffs that was Atlassian block laying off 40% of its workforce a few weeks ago. There have been layoffs at Salesforce and Amazon and Pinterest, and they’ve all blamed it either partially or totally on AI. But I think when I speak to exports, they are very skeptical that these layoffs are actually because of AI. If we think back to the pandemic, there was massive hiring because these tech companies were adapting to this new world that we lived in, in terms of e-commerce and streaming. And they arguably over-hired quite a bit. And so it could be that these layoffs are just a product of that pandemic over- hiring, but to get in the head of a tech executive for a second. You look more, you know, techno futuristic and cool to Wall Street if you are blaming your layoffs on AI and not on the fact that you made a hiring mistake during the pandemic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:03] \u003c/em>Is AI also changing how much work people are expected to do? Like, if you can use AI to code faster, you now have more work to do?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:12] \u003c/em>Software engineers specifically, they are being expected to produce 10 times the amount of code that they were before. And I think this has introduced kind of an interesting problem for rank and file software engineers who, let’s say, are on like the oleo side of their career, they really want to understand what they are doing, but they feel like because of the expectations at their companies, they just have to. Use AI tools to generate that code, and they don’t have time to review it and understand what is going on. I think outside of the more technical domains, people using AI, there have been quite a few studies about this, but people using is increasing workload for people. And if you just think of someone generating a super bad presentation using AI or sending you a really sloppy email to go to a customer, I mean, I hear this from friends. It’s like that one colleague who is super chat GPT-pilled and uses chat GPTs for everything and doesn’t really care about the quality of their work. It’s making some people mad that they have to spend more hours correcting their colleagues. And even when they’re experimenting with tools, if companies are mandating them to experiment with their tools, it’s not like they’re being given half a day to do it. They’re expected to do it on top of their current jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:35] \u003c/em>Right, yeah. They’re very real, like, labor implications with this technology.\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:39] \u003c/em>Totally. Totally. And I think it’s really interesting because with every technological revolution we’ve kind of been promised that like, oh, we will walk less. In the 1930s, John Maynard Keynes also predicted that that technological revolutions would bring in a 15-hour work week and more leisure time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:56] \u003c/em>That sounds so nice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:58] \u003c/em>It sounds so Nice. It doesn’t seem anywhere close though. Because I mean, I think now with AI, people are walking even more than before. And they’re like, oh, where was, where did this promise go? We even walk on the weekends now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:12:16] \u003c/em>I mean, I do think some people might be hearing this and sort of thinking to themselves, like, boo-hoo, the techies are getting all existential because of this tech that in many ways they helped to create or they helped to uplift, but why do you think what is happening among tech workers right now matters to the rest of us?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:12:38] \u003c/em>I think it matters hugely, I think engineering and what’s happening in software engineering is a bellwether for what might happen in other industries. And you see the people building this technology, you’re warning about it. And so I think, even though it’s come for codos forced by virtue of their jobs, there are other careers on the chopping block that aren’t necessarily tech jobs. I mean, customer service agents. Health care. Health care, yeah, lawyers, consultants. And what we’re seeing is that Wall Street is rewarding companies for slashing their workforces. Because a Leno workforce means you have bigger profits, you can reinvest in other things. And so. If CEOs get this like, I want to shave my workforce bug by looking at other companies doing it, I think it could be pretty catastrophic for a lot of people. I mean, I talk to a lot of experts about how this is going to play out, and on the one hand, some are really down on the future. On the other hand, some experts are like, every time there has been a technological transformation or some sort of invention that improves the efficiency of engineering, more software gets built, and it gets democratized. And at a lot of companies, especially, you know… Smaller companies that cannot afford a software engineer and pay them, you know, $300,000 a year Software is the bottleneck Now it is making software cheaper But maybe you still want someone who has technical expertise to build that software for you So it could be that in the future there are way more software engineering jobs than before Maybe there is a future in which we’re gonna go through a small period of transition now and we will live in a world in which there are loads of jobs and there is no long-term disruption to the labor market. And I think that is the big question on everybody’s mind right now is that is this like other technological revolutions or is this fundamentally different.\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "American Suburb: The Podcast",
"tagline": "The flip side of gentrification, told through one town",
"info": "Gentrification is changing cities across America, forcing people from neighborhoods they have long called home. Call them the displaced. Now those priced out of the Bay Area are looking for a better life in an unlikely place. American Suburb follows this migration to one California town along the Delta, 45 miles from San Francisco. But is this once sleepy suburb ready for them?",
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"order": 19
},
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"rss": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/series/american-suburb-podcast/feed/podcast",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkMzMDExODgxNjA5"
}
},
"baycurious": {
"id": "baycurious",
"title": "Bay Curious",
"tagline": "Exploring the Bay Area, one question at a time",
"info": "KQED’s new podcast, Bay Curious, gets to the bottom of the mysteries — both profound and peculiar — that give the Bay Area its unique identity. And we’ll do it with your help! You ask the questions. You decide what Bay Curious investigates. And you join us on the journey to find the answers.",
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"order": 3
},
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}
},
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"info": "The day's top stories from BBC News compiled twice daily in the week, once at weekends.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 9pm-10pm, TUE-FRI 1am-2am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/BBC-World-Service-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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"source": "BBC World Service"
},
"link": "/radio/program/bbc-world-service",
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"rss": "https://podcasts.files.bbci.co.uk/p02nq0gn.rss"
}
},
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"id": "californiareport",
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"tagline": "California, day by day",
"info": "KQED’s statewide radio news program providing daily coverage of issues, trends and public policy decisions.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-California-Report-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/californiareport",
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 8
},
"link": "/californiareport",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1MDAyODE4NTgz",
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}
},
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"id": "californiareportmagazine",
"title": "The California Report Magazine",
"tagline": "Your state, your stories",
"info": "Every week, The California Report Magazine takes you on a road trip for the ears: to visit the places and meet the people who make California unique. The in-depth storytelling podcast from the California Report.",
"airtime": "FRI 4:30pm-5pm, 6:30pm-7pm, 11pm-11:30pm",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/californiareportmagazine",
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"order": 10
},
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM3NjkwNjk1OTAz",
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},
"city-arts": {
"id": "city-arts",
"title": "City Arts & Lectures",
"info": "A one-hour radio program to hear celebrated writers, artists and thinkers address contemporary ideas and values, often discussing the creative process. Please note: tapes or transcripts are not available",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/05/cityartsandlecture-300x300.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.cityarts.net/",
"airtime": "SUN 1pm-2pm, TUE 10pm, WED 1am",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "City Arts & Lectures"
},
"link": "https://www.cityarts.net",
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"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/City-Arts-and-Lectures-p692/",
"rss": "https://www.cityarts.net/feed/"
}
},
"closealltabs": {
"id": "closealltabs",
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"tagline": "Your irreverent guide to the trends redefining our world",
"info": "Close All Tabs breaks down how digital culture shapes our world through thoughtful insights and irreverent humor.",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/closealltabs",
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 1
},
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"code-switch-life-kit": {
"id": "code-switch-life-kit",
"title": "Code Switch / Life Kit",
"info": "\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em>, which listeners will hear in the first part of the hour, has fearless and much-needed conversations about race. Hosted by journalists of color, the show tackles the subject of race head-on, exploring how it impacts every part of society — from politics and pop culture to history, sports and more.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em>, which will be in the second part of the hour, guides you through spaces and feelings no one prepares you for — from finances to mental health, from workplace microaggressions to imposter syndrome, from relationships to parenting. The show features experts with real world experience and shares their knowledge. Because everyone needs a little help being human.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510312/codeswitch\">\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/lifekit\">\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />",
"airtime": "SUN 9pm-10pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Code-Switch-Life-Kit-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
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},
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510312/podcast.xml"
}
},
"commonwealth-club": {
"id": "commonwealth-club",
"title": "Commonwealth Club of California Podcast",
"info": "The Commonwealth Club of California is the nation's oldest and largest public affairs forum. As a non-partisan forum, The Club brings to the public airwaves diverse viewpoints on important topics. The Club's weekly radio broadcast - the oldest in the U.S., dating back to 1924 - is carried across the nation on public radio stations and is now podcasting. Our website archive features audio of our recent programs, as well as selected speeches from our long and distinguished history. This podcast feed is usually updated twice a week and is always un-edited.",
"airtime": "THU 10pm, FRI 1am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Commonwealth-Club-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.commonwealthclub.org/podcasts",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "Commonwealth Club of California"
},
"link": "/radio/program/commonwealth-club",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/commonwealth-club-of-california-podcast/id976334034?mt=2",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5jb21tb253ZWFsdGhjbHViLm9yZy9hdWRpby9wb2RjYXN0L3dlZWtseS54bWw",
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}
},
"forum": {
"id": "forum",
"title": "Forum",
"tagline": "The conversation starts here",
"info": "KQED’s live call-in program discussing local, state, national and international issues, as well as in-depth interviews.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 9am-11am, 10pm-11pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Forum-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED Forum with Mina Kim and Alexis Madrigal",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/forum",
"meta": {
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 9
},
"link": "/forum",
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}
},
"freakonomics-radio": {
"id": "freakonomics-radio",
"title": "Freakonomics Radio",
"info": "Freakonomics Radio is a one-hour award-winning podcast and public-radio project hosted by Stephen Dubner, with co-author Steve Levitt as a regular guest. It is produced in partnership with WNYC.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/05/freakonomicsRadio.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://freakonomics.com/",
"airtime": "SUN 1am-2am, SAT 3pm-4pm",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "WNYC"
},
"link": "/radio/program/freakonomics-radio",
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"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/WNYC-Podcasts/Freakonomics-Radio-p272293/",
"rss": "https://feeds.feedburner.com/freakonomicsradio"
}
},
"fresh-air": {
"id": "fresh-air",
"title": "Fresh Air",
"info": "Hosted by Terry Gross, \u003cem>Fresh Air from WHYY\u003c/em> is the Peabody Award-winning weekday magazine of contemporary arts and issues. One of public radio's most popular programs, Fresh Air features intimate conversations with today's biggest luminaries.",
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"info": "A live production of NPR and WBUR Boston, in collaboration with stations across the country, Here & Now reflects the fluid world of news as it's happening in the middle of the day, with timely, in-depth news, interviews and conversation. Hosted by Robin Young, Jeremy Hobson and Tonya Mosley.",
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510051/podcast.xml"
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},
"hidden-brain": {
"id": "hidden-brain",
"title": "Hidden Brain",
"info": "Shankar Vedantam uses science and storytelling to reveal the unconscious patterns that drive human behavior, shape our choices and direct our relationships.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/05/hiddenbrain.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/series/423302056/hidden-brain",
"airtime": "SUN 7pm-8pm",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "NPR"
},
"link": "/radio/program/hidden-brain",
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},
"how-i-built-this": {
"id": "how-i-built-this",
"title": "How I Built This with Guy Raz",
"info": "Guy Raz dives into the stories behind some of the world's best known companies. How I Built This weaves a narrative journey about innovators, entrepreneurs and idealists—and the movements they built.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/05/howIBuiltThis.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510313/how-i-built-this",
"airtime": "SUN 7:30pm-8pm",
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},
"link": "/radio/program/how-i-built-this",
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},
"hyphenacion": {
"id": "hyphenacion",
"title": "Hyphenación",
"tagline": "Where conversation and cultura meet",
"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/hyphenacion",
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"order": 15
},
"link": "/podcasts/hyphenacion",
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},
"jerrybrown": {
"id": "jerrybrown",
"title": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown",
"tagline": "Lessons from a lifetime in politics",
"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game – and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-Political-Mind-of-Jerry-Brown-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/jerrybrown",
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"order": 18
},
"link": "/podcasts/jerrybrown",
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}
},
"latino-usa": {
"id": "latino-usa",
"title": "Latino USA",
"airtime": "MON 1am-2am, SUN 6pm-7pm",
"info": "Latino USA, the radio journal of news and culture, is the only national, English-language radio program produced from a Latino perspective.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/latinoUsa.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://latinousa.org/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/latino-usa",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=79681317&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510016/podcast.xml"
}
},
"marketplace": {
"id": "marketplace",
"title": "Marketplace",
"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 4pm-4:30pm, MON-WED 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Marketplace-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.marketplace.org/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "American Public Media"
},
"link": "/radio/program/marketplace",
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"rss": "https://feeds.publicradio.org/public_feeds/marketplace-pm/rss/rss"
}
},
"masters-of-scale": {
"id": "masters-of-scale",
"title": "Masters of Scale",
"info": "Masters of Scale is an original podcast in which LinkedIn co-founder and Greylock Partner Reid Hoffman sets out to describe and prove theories that explain how great entrepreneurs take their companies from zero to a gazillion in ingenious fashion.",
"airtime": "Every other Wednesday June 12 through October 16 at 8pm (repeats Thursdays at 2am)",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Masters-of-Scale-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://mastersofscale.com/",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "WaitWhat"
},
"link": "/radio/program/masters-of-scale",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "http://mastersofscale.app.link/",
"rss": "https://rss.art19.com/masters-of-scale"
}
},
"mindshift": {
"id": "mindshift",
"title": "MindShift",
"tagline": "A podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids",
"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED MindShift: How We Will Learn",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/mindshift/",
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