Christopher J. Beale is an award winning journalist, audio engineer, and media host living in San Francisco.
Christopher works primarily as an audio engineer at KQED and serves as the sound designer for both the Bay Curious and Rightnowish podcasts. He is the host and producer of the LGBTQIA podcast and radio segment Stereotypes.
Why Are There So Many Motels on San Francisco’s Lombard Street?
Idora Park and Playland-at-the-Beach: Bay Area Amusement Parks of a Bygone Era
Proposition 36 Would Increase Penalties for Some Drug and Theft Crimes
Should Proposition 35 Make a Tax to Help Fund Medi-Cal Permanently and Limit How the Money Is Used?
Proposition 34 Limits How Prescription Drug Revenue Can Be Spent By Certain Providers
Proposition 33 Would End State Limits on Rent Control
Proposition 32 Raises the Minimum Wage to $18 an Hour
Proposition 6 Would Abolish Involuntary Servitude in Prisons
Proposition 4 Would Raise $10 Billion in Bonds for Climate Projects
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lombard Street is one of San Francisco’s most iconic thoroughfares.[baycuriouspodcastinfo]\u003cbr>\nBeautiful mansions and carefully trimmed hedges frame the winding brick lane. But after the curves end, the street continues, heading all the way to the Golden Gate Bridge.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you’ve ever driven along this stretch through the Marina district, you might have noticed that dozens of motels dot the thoroughfare. Why so many in one place? That’s what Bay Curious question asker Nick Glasser wanted to know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As is so often the case, San Francisco’s built environment is a product of its past. By the 1920s, America had entered the age of automobiles and highways began to connect places that had once seemed distant. And, in the early 1930s, engineers started planning for the construction of what was, at the time, going to be the longest suspension bridge in the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now one of San Francisco’s most iconic landmarks, the Golden Gate Bridge would stretch across the channel of water between Marin County and San Francisco, formerly only connected by boat. And Lombard Street would be the main approach road leading to the bridge.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12058836\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 945px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/LombardBrod.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12058836\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/LombardBrod.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"945\" height=\"774\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/LombardBrod.jpg 945w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/LombardBrod-160x131.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 945px) 100vw, 945px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A photo of the Marina Motel, on the corner of Lombard and Broderick streets, in 1940. Built by the son of a California Gold Rush miner, the historic Marina Motel was built to celebrate the opening of the Golden Gate Bridge in the late 1930s and is still run by the same family. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of San Francisco History Center, San Francisco Public Library)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Back in 1939, Heidi Detjen’s grandfather could see the writing on the wall: when the bridge opened, visitors with cars would flood into San Francisco. They — and their cars — would need a place to stay. In 1939, just two years after the Bridge inauguration, he opened up the first motor lodge on Lombard Street. It was called the Marina Motel.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He came out of retirement to build this after visiting a motor court yard,” Detjen said. Motor lodges offered direct access to the parking lot from each unit, making it an ideal choice for auto-crazed Americans.[aside postID=news_11907457 hero='https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/03/garden-from-above-1020x574.jpeg']When the bridge opened, the once quiet, 2-lane Lombard Street was transformed into a buzzing thoroughfare. The city soon decided to widen the road to six lanes of traffic. To do that, they had to raze the buildings on the south side of Lombard to make space for the bigger road. That meant when the road construction was done, there were many open lots of land available to purchase.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That’s when all these other motels appeared,” Detjen said. “In the old days, people literally got off the Golden Gate Bridge, and they went from motel to motel to motel to try to get the best rate.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Marina Motel is still in business today. Detjen has kept it in the family, bringing it with her into the 21st century. “I feel like I’m kind of holding up the legacy,” Detjen said. “My family has owned it since the 1930s, and I’m the third generation doing it, and now my daughters are involved as well. There’s a lot of heart that goes into this place.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This is Bay Curious, the podcast that answers your questions about the San Francisco Bay Area. I’m Katrina Schwartz.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s hard to imagine life here in the Bay without the bridges that allow us to crisscross the water. Thousands of us do it every day. Sometimes it’s a real pain.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Newscaster:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We have a real traffic mess on the Bay Bridge eastbound.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Newscaster: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thousands of drivers got home late tonight after a protest over vaccine mandates sparked a chaotic scene.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Newscaster: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We continue to track major delays across the San Mateo Bridge; this has just been the headache of the morning.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But since we all spend so much time sitting in bridge traffic, we get lots of questions about things you’ve noticed from your car windows. Like:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Why are there so many motels on Lombard Street as it approaches the Golden Gate Bridge?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What was the original San Mateo-Hayward Bridge like?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Today on the show, it’s a bridge-focused lightning round where we answer several of your questions. First, we’re going to tackle why there are so many motels on Lombard Street, and then we’re moving south to a bridge that doesn’t always get the recognition it deserves. Stay with us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sponsor break\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These days, Lombard Street is best known for the short section that wiggles down a steep hill, beautiful mansions on each side. Cars line up for the chance to drive it. But just down the way from there, Lombard becomes a main thoroughfare to the Golden Gate Bridge. And dotted along it are dozens of motels. Why so many in one place? Bay Curious reporter and sound engineer Christopher Beale went to find out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I thought the most obvious place to start to answer this question was to take a look for myself, so my partner and I decided to take a little drive down Lombard Street and just count how many hotels we saw.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re gonna start at Franklin. I’m just curious how many we are going to get, there’s two and we haven’t even turned onto Lombard yet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We drove west, towards the Golden Gate Bridge.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right, so there’s the San Francisco Bay Inn, the La Casa Inn.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Montage of counting motels\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">OK, counting all of these might take a while. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Reagan Rockzsfforde: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, you look on that side and I will look on this side.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ll check in on this later, let’s get to the other part of the question. Why are these motels, or motor lodges, here in the first place?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">By the 1920s, Americans were falling in love with the automobile, and highways began to snake across the United States, connecting people from coast to coast like never before.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the early ’30s, plans were in place to build what was, at the time, the longest suspension bridge in the world, right here in San Francisco. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Golden Gate Bridge would stretch across a narrow, deep channel of water long known as The Golden Gate, soaring high above the water, and allowing automobile traffic from Marin County into San Francisco. Lombard Street was going to be the main approach road for this massive bridge.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heidi Detjen:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> There wasn’t a lot of people who lived over there then, so it was not a very busy road.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That is Heidi Detjen. She is the owner of the first motor lodge to pop up on Lombard Street, it’s called the Marina Motel and Heidi’s grandfather started welcoming guests in 1939, just two years after the Golden Gate Bridge opened. Now, of course, her grandfather didn’t invent the concept of a motor lodge but…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heidi Detjen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He came out of retirement to build this after visiting a motor courtyard, I wanna say maybe Niagara Falls or something.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A motor lodge, or a motel is a hotel that is specifically targeted at motorists, they usually offer direct access to the parking lot from the unit vs having to enter and exit through a more traditional hotel’s central lobby.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Heidi’s granddad believed that the Golden Gate Bridge would bring people in cars who needed a place to sleep, and that a motor lodge was just the thing to service those motorists. And boy was he right! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Once the bridge opened, Lombard Street got really busy, really fast! The Marina Motel was perfectly situated to take advantage of all that traffic along sleepy Lombard Street.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heidi Detjen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When they built this place, it was just a two-lane road with a lot of multi-story shingled housing along it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But right after the bridge opened, officials decided to expand Lombard Street.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heidi Detjen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And they pushed it from a two-lane road into a six-lane road.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The south side of the street was bulldozed to make room for the new lanes of traffic. But the Marina Motel is on the north side of Lombard, closer to the Bay and the Palace of Fine Arts, so it wasn’t directly impacted until the road was finished, that is.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heidi Detjen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s when all these other motels appeared.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s rare for land to be available at that scale in San Francisco, and before long, dozens of motor lodges of varying quality and price dotted the south side of Lombard Street, giving the Marina Motel some very real competition.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heidi Detjen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the old days, people literally got off the Golden Gate Bridge, and they went from motel to motel to motel to try to get the best rate. Unfortunately, then we were on the wrong side. So as people were coming over the Golden Gate Bridge into San Francisco, they would go all to the motels on the other side, and we stood empty.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Marina Motel would go through ups and downs, but is still there today, and still in the family. Business has gotten easier thanks to the internet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heidi Detjen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nowadays, people can look your pictures up online. So we get a clientele who really appreciates that and appreciates the historic significance. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So that covers how Lombard’s motor lodges got to be there in the first place, but just how many are we talking about here?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is by no means an official count, but on our single road trip down Lombard that day, between Franklin and Chestnut streets, my partner and I counted…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">24, like old motor lodge style motels in just a mile or so. Yeah, I think that qualifies as a high concentration, don’t you? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Reagan Rockzsfforde: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, we’ve all heard the headlines about how hotels aren’t doing so well in a post-COVID era, but Heidi’s family has weathered ups and downs in the business before.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why do this in 2025?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heidi Detjen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, this is the best business ever. People come here, they’re on vacation, they’re happy. I go home and I tell my family about it at the dinner table, like, oh, I met this scientist…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The traffic from the Golden Gate Bridge is why these hotels popped up in the first place, and though these motor lodges are sort of a relic of a bygone era, Heidi said these days business is still thriving, possibly because of that fact. Nostalgia is in, so is free parking.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heidi Detjen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I feel like I’m kind of holding up the legacy. My family has owned it since the 1930s, and I’m the third generation doing it, and now my daughters are involved as well. There’s a lot of heart that goes into this place.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That was Bay Curious reporter and sound engineer Christopher Beale.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We just heard about the huge impact the Golden Gate Bridge had on the Marina neighborhood of San Francisco, now we’re going to turn to a bridge that doesn’t get nearly the same hype as its International Orange friend.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The San Mateo-Hayward Bridge. Today, it’s a fairly unassuming workhorse bridge. But did you know the original actually preceded the Golden Gate Bridge by almost a decade? It was once the longest bridge in North America. And one of the skinniest!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kathleen McKusick of Redwood City used to work in biotech near Bridgeview Park in Foster City. Which is how she came to ask us this question:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathleen McKusick: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I stumbled across a remnant of the 1929 San Mateo Bridge about a dozen years ago. I would love to know more about that original bridge in its heyday. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Built in 1929 and then called the San Francisco Bay Toll-Bridge, we sent KQED’s Rachael Myrow to check it out. This story first aired in 2023.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> If you’ve walked or cycled along the Bay Trail on the Peninsula, you know it passes under the San Mateo-Hayward Bridge. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathleen McKusick: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My daughter and I were here on the weekend to ride bikes on the Bay Trail, and we went on the bikes a little farther than I usually went on foot, and here was this astonishing little piece of a bridge. Which raised all kinds of questions in my mind.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kathleen McKusick Googled it, naturally, as did I, and there just isn’t a whole lot out there. The best resource? One article written a few years ago for the Hayward Historical Society, an article written by this guy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>John Christian:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> John Christian, formerly an archivist at the Hayward Historical Society.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We all met at the Bridgeview Park, where you can spy a little stub of the old bridge alongside the big new one. It’s a noisy park. You can hear the traffic from the new bridge, not to mention planes flying overhead from SFO.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>John Christian:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This is the first time I’ve been over here. I guess I’m too Hayward-centric. But yeah, I’ve never really seen it from this side, to be honest.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">According to Christian, the Hayward-San Mateo Bridge was originally proposed in 1922 by the Oakland Chamber of Commerce as a way to jump-start commerce between the Peninsula and the East Bay. Construction began in December of 1927. Flash forward to March 2, 1929, and we have…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Old-timey music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The grand opening of what was then called the San Francisco Bay Toll-Bridge! Now, quick production note. 1929 is a tricky time for sound reporters in the Bay. Much of the news footage from that era was still silent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Archival recording of Calvin Coolidge talking\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What talkies there were typically brought sound to big, national news stories. But the Bridge opening in 1929 was a big deal for the Bay Area.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sound of Morse code being sent over a telegraph\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then-President Calvin Coolidge participated in the dedication by pressing a telegraph button in Washington, D.C., that directed the unfurling of an American flag from the bridge.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sound of a flag unfurling sound, crowd says “Ahhhh”\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then-San Francisco Mayor James Rolph, who was known to love attending celebrations of almost any kind, was the biggest local celebrity to show up in person.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sounds of 1929 Ford AA Truck engine starting up\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Not unlike the Golden Gate Bridge to the north, this bridge helped farmers get their goods to market. In the 1920s, the region on both sides of the Bay was rural, as opposed to suburban, as it is today. Farms, orchards, canneries, salt harvesting. And maybe because it wasn’t designed primarily for commuter traffic, I think it’s worth noting that the original bridge was only 30 feet wide with just two lanes, and about 7 miles long.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>John Christian:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Looking at the new bridge, I mean, compared to the old bridge, this bridge is a monster. You know, this is like, six lanes. The original bridge would have been just two lanes, back and forth. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow (in the field): \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Petite, and also, I have to say, terrifying. Right? Two lanes, two lanes only, one going in one direction, one in the other. 30 feet wide, going over, over the Bay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>John Christian:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Right.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Dramatic music swells\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>John Christian:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah, I mean, it must have, I guess, you know, probably it was kind of fun, I guess. But yeah, probably a little horrifying.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow (in the field): \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Especially if there’s a stiff wind? Picking up off the water?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>John Christian:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah, I mean…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow (in the field): \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Driving a Model T Ford?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>John Christian:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Nobody was blown into the water, as far as I can tell.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Fun fact: The original toll was 45 cents, about $8 in today’s money! So, Christian says, adjusted for inflation, it was more expensive to cross in 1929 than it is today! Takes the sting out of today’s $7 toll? Or maybe not.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Anyways, it wasn’t long before newspaper articles were calling the old bridge “antique.” By 1954, 7,400 cars and trucks were crossing every day. Because the rural towns on either side of the Bay did become suburbs.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>John Christian:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You know, it was a small bridge taking you to a small place, you know? And now it’s like, this massive, like, you know, city center to city center. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And the biggest complaint about this bridge was not how slender it was, but the electric drawbridge that went up on average 6 times a day to let marine traffic pass underneath. That brought cars and trucks on the bridge to a standstill.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So in 1961, the groundwork was laid for the construction of a wider, taller bridge, to be built just a few feet north of the original span. The old bridge was dismantled, piece by piece, except for the small bit you can still see from Bridgeview Park today. According to the state’s Department of Transportation, by the way, the new bridge is still the longest bridge in California.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow (in the field): \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So now that you know the full story, any thoughts?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathleen McKusick: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I really wish that the pier were open and I could walk out onto the bridge. That would be a dream come true.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That story was reported by KQED’s Rachael Myrow.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Both of the questions in this episode won Bay Curious voting rounds. We’ve got a new set of questions up on our website right now, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://baycurious.org\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">BayCurious.org\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Head on over to cast your vote for what we should answer next. And be sure you follow Bay Curious so you never miss a new episode. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our show is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Bay Curious is made by Gabriela Glueck, Christopher Beale and me, Katrina Schwartz. With extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Sprenger, Jen Chien, Ethan Toven-Lindsey and everyone on team KQED.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Have a great week!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "If you’ve ever driven along this stretch through San Francisco's Marina neighborhood towards the Golden Gate Bridge, you might have noticed that dozens of motels dot the thoroughfare. Why so many in one place?",
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"title": "Why Are There So Many Motels on San Francisco’s Lombard Street? | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lombard Street is one of San Francisco’s most iconic thoroughfares.\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" loading=\"lazy\" />\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Bay Curious\u003c/a> is a podcast that answers your questions about the Bay Area.\n Subscribe on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>,\n \u003ca href=\"http://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">NPR One\u003c/a> or your favorite podcast platform.\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cbr>\nBeautiful mansions and carefully trimmed hedges frame the winding brick lane. But after the curves end, the street continues, heading all the way to the Golden Gate Bridge.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you’ve ever driven along this stretch through the Marina district, you might have noticed that dozens of motels dot the thoroughfare. Why so many in one place? That’s what Bay Curious question asker Nick Glasser wanted to know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As is so often the case, San Francisco’s built environment is a product of its past. By the 1920s, America had entered the age of automobiles and highways began to connect places that had once seemed distant. And, in the early 1930s, engineers started planning for the construction of what was, at the time, going to be the longest suspension bridge in the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now one of San Francisco’s most iconic landmarks, the Golden Gate Bridge would stretch across the channel of water between Marin County and San Francisco, formerly only connected by boat. And Lombard Street would be the main approach road leading to the bridge.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12058836\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 945px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/LombardBrod.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12058836\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/LombardBrod.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"945\" height=\"774\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/LombardBrod.jpg 945w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/LombardBrod-160x131.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 945px) 100vw, 945px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A photo of the Marina Motel, on the corner of Lombard and Broderick streets, in 1940. Built by the son of a California Gold Rush miner, the historic Marina Motel was built to celebrate the opening of the Golden Gate Bridge in the late 1930s and is still run by the same family. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of San Francisco History Center, San Francisco Public Library)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Back in 1939, Heidi Detjen’s grandfather could see the writing on the wall: when the bridge opened, visitors with cars would flood into San Francisco. They — and their cars — would need a place to stay. In 1939, just two years after the Bridge inauguration, he opened up the first motor lodge on Lombard Street. It was called the Marina Motel.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He came out of retirement to build this after visiting a motor court yard,” Detjen said. Motor lodges offered direct access to the parking lot from each unit, making it an ideal choice for auto-crazed Americans.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>When the bridge opened, the once quiet, 2-lane Lombard Street was transformed into a buzzing thoroughfare. The city soon decided to widen the road to six lanes of traffic. To do that, they had to raze the buildings on the south side of Lombard to make space for the bigger road. That meant when the road construction was done, there were many open lots of land available to purchase.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That’s when all these other motels appeared,” Detjen said. “In the old days, people literally got off the Golden Gate Bridge, and they went from motel to motel to motel to try to get the best rate.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Marina Motel is still in business today. Detjen has kept it in the family, bringing it with her into the 21st century. “I feel like I’m kind of holding up the legacy,” Detjen said. “My family has owned it since the 1930s, and I’m the third generation doing it, and now my daughters are involved as well. There’s a lot of heart that goes into this place.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This is Bay Curious, the podcast that answers your questions about the San Francisco Bay Area. I’m Katrina Schwartz.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s hard to imagine life here in the Bay without the bridges that allow us to crisscross the water. Thousands of us do it every day. Sometimes it’s a real pain.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Newscaster:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We have a real traffic mess on the Bay Bridge eastbound.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Newscaster: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thousands of drivers got home late tonight after a protest over vaccine mandates sparked a chaotic scene.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Newscaster: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We continue to track major delays across the San Mateo Bridge; this has just been the headache of the morning.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But since we all spend so much time sitting in bridge traffic, we get lots of questions about things you’ve noticed from your car windows. Like:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Why are there so many motels on Lombard Street as it approaches the Golden Gate Bridge?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Gabriela Glueck: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What was the original San Mateo-Hayward Bridge like?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Today on the show, it’s a bridge-focused lightning round where we answer several of your questions. First, we’re going to tackle why there are so many motels on Lombard Street, and then we’re moving south to a bridge that doesn’t always get the recognition it deserves. Stay with us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sponsor break\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These days, Lombard Street is best known for the short section that wiggles down a steep hill, beautiful mansions on each side. Cars line up for the chance to drive it. But just down the way from there, Lombard becomes a main thoroughfare to the Golden Gate Bridge. And dotted along it are dozens of motels. Why so many in one place? Bay Curious reporter and sound engineer Christopher Beale went to find out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I thought the most obvious place to start to answer this question was to take a look for myself, so my partner and I decided to take a little drive down Lombard Street and just count how many hotels we saw.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re gonna start at Franklin. I’m just curious how many we are going to get, there’s two and we haven’t even turned onto Lombard yet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We drove west, towards the Golden Gate Bridge.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right, so there’s the San Francisco Bay Inn, the La Casa Inn.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Montage of counting motels\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">OK, counting all of these might take a while. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Reagan Rockzsfforde: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, you look on that side and I will look on this side.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ll check in on this later, let’s get to the other part of the question. Why are these motels, or motor lodges, here in the first place?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">By the 1920s, Americans were falling in love with the automobile, and highways began to snake across the United States, connecting people from coast to coast like never before.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the early ’30s, plans were in place to build what was, at the time, the longest suspension bridge in the world, right here in San Francisco. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Golden Gate Bridge would stretch across a narrow, deep channel of water long known as The Golden Gate, soaring high above the water, and allowing automobile traffic from Marin County into San Francisco. Lombard Street was going to be the main approach road for this massive bridge.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heidi Detjen:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> There wasn’t a lot of people who lived over there then, so it was not a very busy road.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That is Heidi Detjen. She is the owner of the first motor lodge to pop up on Lombard Street, it’s called the Marina Motel and Heidi’s grandfather started welcoming guests in 1939, just two years after the Golden Gate Bridge opened. Now, of course, her grandfather didn’t invent the concept of a motor lodge but…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heidi Detjen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He came out of retirement to build this after visiting a motor courtyard, I wanna say maybe Niagara Falls or something.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A motor lodge, or a motel is a hotel that is specifically targeted at motorists, they usually offer direct access to the parking lot from the unit vs having to enter and exit through a more traditional hotel’s central lobby.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Heidi’s granddad believed that the Golden Gate Bridge would bring people in cars who needed a place to sleep, and that a motor lodge was just the thing to service those motorists. And boy was he right! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Once the bridge opened, Lombard Street got really busy, really fast! The Marina Motel was perfectly situated to take advantage of all that traffic along sleepy Lombard Street.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heidi Detjen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When they built this place, it was just a two-lane road with a lot of multi-story shingled housing along it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But right after the bridge opened, officials decided to expand Lombard Street.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heidi Detjen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And they pushed it from a two-lane road into a six-lane road.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The south side of the street was bulldozed to make room for the new lanes of traffic. But the Marina Motel is on the north side of Lombard, closer to the Bay and the Palace of Fine Arts, so it wasn’t directly impacted until the road was finished, that is.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heidi Detjen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s when all these other motels appeared.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s rare for land to be available at that scale in San Francisco, and before long, dozens of motor lodges of varying quality and price dotted the south side of Lombard Street, giving the Marina Motel some very real competition.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heidi Detjen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the old days, people literally got off the Golden Gate Bridge, and they went from motel to motel to motel to try to get the best rate. Unfortunately, then we were on the wrong side. So as people were coming over the Golden Gate Bridge into San Francisco, they would go all to the motels on the other side, and we stood empty.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Marina Motel would go through ups and downs, but is still there today, and still in the family. Business has gotten easier thanks to the internet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heidi Detjen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nowadays, people can look your pictures up online. So we get a clientele who really appreciates that and appreciates the historic significance. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So that covers how Lombard’s motor lodges got to be there in the first place, but just how many are we talking about here?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is by no means an official count, but on our single road trip down Lombard that day, between Franklin and Chestnut streets, my partner and I counted…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">24, like old motor lodge style motels in just a mile or so. Yeah, I think that qualifies as a high concentration, don’t you? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Reagan Rockzsfforde: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, we’ve all heard the headlines about how hotels aren’t doing so well in a post-COVID era, but Heidi’s family has weathered ups and downs in the business before.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why do this in 2025?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heidi Detjen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, this is the best business ever. People come here, they’re on vacation, they’re happy. I go home and I tell my family about it at the dinner table, like, oh, I met this scientist…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The traffic from the Golden Gate Bridge is why these hotels popped up in the first place, and though these motor lodges are sort of a relic of a bygone era, Heidi said these days business is still thriving, possibly because of that fact. Nostalgia is in, so is free parking.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Heidi Detjen: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I feel like I’m kind of holding up the legacy. My family has owned it since the 1930s, and I’m the third generation doing it, and now my daughters are involved as well. There’s a lot of heart that goes into this place.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That was Bay Curious reporter and sound engineer Christopher Beale.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We just heard about the huge impact the Golden Gate Bridge had on the Marina neighborhood of San Francisco, now we’re going to turn to a bridge that doesn’t get nearly the same hype as its International Orange friend.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The San Mateo-Hayward Bridge. Today, it’s a fairly unassuming workhorse bridge. But did you know the original actually preceded the Golden Gate Bridge by almost a decade? It was once the longest bridge in North America. And one of the skinniest!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kathleen McKusick of Redwood City used to work in biotech near Bridgeview Park in Foster City. Which is how she came to ask us this question:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathleen McKusick: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I stumbled across a remnant of the 1929 San Mateo Bridge about a dozen years ago. I would love to know more about that original bridge in its heyday. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Built in 1929 and then called the San Francisco Bay Toll-Bridge, we sent KQED’s Rachael Myrow to check it out. This story first aired in 2023.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> If you’ve walked or cycled along the Bay Trail on the Peninsula, you know it passes under the San Mateo-Hayward Bridge. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathleen McKusick: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My daughter and I were here on the weekend to ride bikes on the Bay Trail, and we went on the bikes a little farther than I usually went on foot, and here was this astonishing little piece of a bridge. Which raised all kinds of questions in my mind.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kathleen McKusick Googled it, naturally, as did I, and there just isn’t a whole lot out there. The best resource? One article written a few years ago for the Hayward Historical Society, an article written by this guy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>John Christian:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> John Christian, formerly an archivist at the Hayward Historical Society.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We all met at the Bridgeview Park, where you can spy a little stub of the old bridge alongside the big new one. It’s a noisy park. You can hear the traffic from the new bridge, not to mention planes flying overhead from SFO.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>John Christian:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This is the first time I’ve been over here. I guess I’m too Hayward-centric. But yeah, I’ve never really seen it from this side, to be honest.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">According to Christian, the Hayward-San Mateo Bridge was originally proposed in 1922 by the Oakland Chamber of Commerce as a way to jump-start commerce between the Peninsula and the East Bay. Construction began in December of 1927. Flash forward to March 2, 1929, and we have…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Old-timey music\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The grand opening of what was then called the San Francisco Bay Toll-Bridge! Now, quick production note. 1929 is a tricky time for sound reporters in the Bay. Much of the news footage from that era was still silent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Archival recording of Calvin Coolidge talking\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What talkies there were typically brought sound to big, national news stories. But the Bridge opening in 1929 was a big deal for the Bay Area.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sound of Morse code being sent over a telegraph\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then-President Calvin Coolidge participated in the dedication by pressing a telegraph button in Washington, D.C., that directed the unfurling of an American flag from the bridge.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sound of a flag unfurling sound, crowd says “Ahhhh”\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then-San Francisco Mayor James Rolph, who was known to love attending celebrations of almost any kind, was the biggest local celebrity to show up in person.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sounds of 1929 Ford AA Truck engine starting up\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Not unlike the Golden Gate Bridge to the north, this bridge helped farmers get their goods to market. In the 1920s, the region on both sides of the Bay was rural, as opposed to suburban, as it is today. Farms, orchards, canneries, salt harvesting. And maybe because it wasn’t designed primarily for commuter traffic, I think it’s worth noting that the original bridge was only 30 feet wide with just two lanes, and about 7 miles long.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>John Christian:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Looking at the new bridge, I mean, compared to the old bridge, this bridge is a monster. You know, this is like, six lanes. The original bridge would have been just two lanes, back and forth. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow (in the field): \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Petite, and also, I have to say, terrifying. Right? Two lanes, two lanes only, one going in one direction, one in the other. 30 feet wide, going over, over the Bay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>John Christian:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Right.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Dramatic music swells\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>John Christian:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah, I mean, it must have, I guess, you know, probably it was kind of fun, I guess. But yeah, probably a little horrifying.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow (in the field): \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Especially if there’s a stiff wind? Picking up off the water?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>John Christian:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah, I mean…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow (in the field): \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Driving a Model T Ford?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>John Christian:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Nobody was blown into the water, as far as I can tell.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Fun fact: The original toll was 45 cents, about $8 in today’s money! So, Christian says, adjusted for inflation, it was more expensive to cross in 1929 than it is today! Takes the sting out of today’s $7 toll? Or maybe not.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Anyways, it wasn’t long before newspaper articles were calling the old bridge “antique.” By 1954, 7,400 cars and trucks were crossing every day. Because the rural towns on either side of the Bay did become suburbs.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>John Christian:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You know, it was a small bridge taking you to a small place, you know? And now it’s like, this massive, like, you know, city center to city center. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And the biggest complaint about this bridge was not how slender it was, but the electric drawbridge that went up on average 6 times a day to let marine traffic pass underneath. That brought cars and trucks on the bridge to a standstill.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So in 1961, the groundwork was laid for the construction of a wider, taller bridge, to be built just a few feet north of the original span. The old bridge was dismantled, piece by piece, except for the small bit you can still see from Bridgeview Park today. According to the state’s Department of Transportation, by the way, the new bridge is still the longest bridge in California.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow (in the field): \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So now that you know the full story, any thoughts?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kathleen McKusick: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I really wish that the pier were open and I could walk out onto the bridge. That would be a dream come true.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That story was reported by KQED’s Rachael Myrow.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Both of the questions in this episode won Bay Curious voting rounds. We’ve got a new set of questions up on our website right now, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://baycurious.org\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">BayCurious.org\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Head on over to cast your vote for what we should answer next. And be sure you follow Bay Curious so you never miss a new episode. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our show is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Bay Curious is made by Gabriela Glueck, Christopher Beale and me, Katrina Schwartz. With extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Sprenger, Jen Chien, Ethan Toven-Lindsey and everyone on team KQED.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Have a great week!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"slug": "idora-park-and-playland-at-the-beach-bay-area-amusement-parks-of-a-bygone-era",
"title": "Idora Park and Playland-at-the-Beach: Bay Area Amusement Parks of a Bygone Era",
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"headTitle": "Idora Park and Playland-at-the-Beach: Bay Area Amusement Parks of a Bygone Era | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story originally published September 15, 2022. It has been updated to reflect that Six Flags now owns California’s Great America and in 2024 it announced that the park will close after the 2027 season.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While the rest of the country cools off and settles into fall, the Bay Area has a couple of months of warm weather that seem designed for a trip to an old-fashioned amusement park. For generations Bay Area residents have sought fresh air, community and thrills. Many of these parks are gone now, and their ultimate demise was the result of a very Bay Area problem: sky-high real estate values.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriouspodcastinfo]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>A center of culture in Oakland\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Oakland was a city on the move at the turn of the century. Still a few years from the automobile becoming ubiquitous, the city bustled with kinetic energy from bicycles, pedestrians and streetcars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A group of business and property owners who called themselves the Realty Syndicate owned most of the streetcars and the land they ran over. Commuters used the trolleys on weekdays, but on the weekends there wasn’t much happening around Oakland that necessitated a streetcar ride.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Realty Syndicate came up with a strategy to increase weekend ridership and the value of land it owned in North Oakland — a parcel bordered by Telegraph and Shattuck avenues to the east and west, and 58th and 56th streets to the north and south. There was already a sleepy neighborhood park there, called Ayala Park, but Realty Syndicate had big plans for it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The syndicate leased Ayala Park to Ingersoll Amusements, who built a beautiful amusement park destination for Oaklanders. They named it Idora Park and opened its doors to the public in 1903. Visitors could conveniently reach it by riding the trolleys owned by the syndicate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11925587\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Idora-Park-Entrance.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11925587 size-medium\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Idora-Park-Entrance-800x513.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"513\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Idora-Park-Entrance-800x513.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Idora-Park-Entrance-1020x653.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Idora-Park-Entrance-160x103.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Idora-Park-Entrance.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The main entrance of Oakland’s Idora Park. \u003ccite>(JL/Oakland LocalWiki)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>For the price of admission, just $0.10, visitors could access Idora Park’s beautifully landscaped grounds with many attractions and exhibits on display.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There were a huge number of things that would get people thinking about new technologies,” said amusement park historian TJ Fisher. “They had an experience that showed you what a coal mine was like.” Concessions and some of the rides cost a little extra, and Idora Park had swings, slides, a bandstand, a scenic railway and a pool, which was segregated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Recounting his life story to the Bancroft Library in Berkeley, native Oaklander and Olympic gold medalist Archie Williams remembered being barred from joining his friends at the Idora Park pool because of a sign that read “No Blacks Allowed!”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11925584\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Idora-Park.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11925584\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Idora-Park.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"329\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Idora-Park.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Idora-Park-160x66.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Idora Park in 1910. \u003ccite>(JL/Oakland LocalWiki)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>After the 1906 earthquake, the Realty Syndicate used Idora Park as a home base to house and support several thousand refugees fleeing the destruction in San Francisco. In the years that followed, the park became an informal community center where demonstrations, performances and political rallies took place.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was really a center of culture in Oakland before we had as many public city parks as we do today,” Fisher said. “It was something everybody would have known.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The neighborhood around Idora Park continued to grow in popularity, and land values in the area started to rise. “At the end of 1928 it was announced that the [Realty Syndicate] was going to subdivide the park, and sell it as real estate,” Fisher said. Idora Park closed and, by the end of 1929, was demolished. Homes quickly went up, the first in Oakland with underground plumbing, and many of them are still standing today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s no sign there was ever an amusement park there,” Fisher said of the now quiet neighborhood just north of the 24 freeway. “Which is a real shame, because it was an important part of civic life in Oakland for so long.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>San Francisco’s very own beachside attraction\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Ocean Beach was already a popular — though hard-to-reach — destination for San Franciscans at the turn of the 20th century. The Cliff House restaurant and nearby Sutro Baths attracted people with the means to make the trip west, but when the city’s \u003cem>trolleys\u003c/em> reached the western part of the city, the makeup of the neighborhood began to shift.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Almost immediately vendors and concessions began popping up on the beach to take advantage of the tourist traffic. Over a decade or so, a small, disorganized amusement park began to assemble at Ocean Beach.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11925590\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Hippodrome-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11925590\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Hippodrome-800x506.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"506\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Hippodrome-800x506.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Hippodrome-1020x646.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Hippodrome-160x101.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Hippodrome-1536x972.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Hippodrome-2048x1297.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Hippodrome-1920x1216.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Looff’s Hippodrome at night. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Jim Smith)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“In 1914 they actually put in the merry-go-round down there. That was the Looff’s Hippodrome,” said historian Jim Smith, author of \u003cem>San Francisco’s Playland at the Beach: The Early Years\u003c/em> and \u003cem>San Francisco’s Playland at the Beach: The Golden Years\u003c/em>. Other attractions like Shoot-the-Chutes — a primitive log flume ride — soon popped up, and the park gained popularity. Within a few years a businessman named John Friedle stepped in with financial investments and big ideas for the area now known by residents as “Chutes-at-the-Beach.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Friedle wanted to make a first-rate park out of it,” Smith said. He expanded the park’s offerings, building the famous 65-foot-high Big Dipper roller coaster. He eventually stepped aside, and in 1926 George Whitney took over and gave the park the name that would stick: “Playland-at-the-Beach.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11925592\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/PlayLand-At-the-Beach-1.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11925592\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/PlayLand-At-the-Beach-1-800x620.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"620\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/PlayLand-At-the-Beach-1-800x620.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/PlayLand-At-the-Beach-1-1020x791.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/PlayLand-At-the-Beach-1-160x124.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/PlayLand-At-the-Beach-1-1536x1190.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/PlayLand-At-the-Beach-1.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Playland-at-the-Beach midway in the 1940s. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Jim Smith)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Playland-at-the-Beach becomes beloved\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Under Whitney, the various independent concessionaires began to work together. “They made it free to get in,” said Smith. “There were no gates, and if you had a dime or a quarter, you could put it toward a ride.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rides like the Skyliner, the Big Dipper, Dodg ‘Em, the Scrambler, the Twister and the Diving Bell thrilled guests over the years, but one quirky attraction called the Fun House etched itself into the memory of Bay Area resident Jeanne Lawton, who would often go to Playland-at-the-Beach in the 1960s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The scariest thing about going into the Fun House when wearing a skirt was the air holes in the floor,” Lawton said, referring to something pretty unsavory: Seemingly at random, jets of air would burst up from the floor, riffling the skirts of unsuspecting women. One night, Lawton and her friends figured out what was actually going on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I happened to look up in the balcony and saw a guy that was working there grinning from ear to ear,” she said. The man would wait until women walked over the air holes, “and then he would hit the button,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lawton has fond memories, too. Playland owner George Whitney invented the famous \u003ca class=\"c-link\" href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/10710678/its-it-the-san-francisco-treat-that-sparked-a-cult-following\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" data-stringify-link=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/10710678/its-it-the-san-francisco-treat-that-sparked-a-cult-following\" data-sk=\"tooltip_parent\" data-remove-tab-index=\"true\">Its-It ice cream sandwich\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They made their own oatmeal cookies,” Lawton remembered fondly, “and then put a scoop of vanilla ice cream in between the cookies, dipped it in hot chocolate and handed it to you to eat right away.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11925601\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Playland-Rides.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11925601\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Playland-Rides-800x553.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"553\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Playland-Rides-800x553.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Playland-Rides-1020x705.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Playland-Rides-160x111.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Playland-Rides-1536x1062.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Playland-Rides.jpg 1820w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An overview showing the Skylark and the Diving Bell at Playland-at-the-Beach. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Jim Smith)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Playland’s slow decline\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>During the Great Depression, many of Playland’s independently owned concessionaires struggled to stay open as attendance at the park dwindled. George Whitney bought up many of those concessions, gaining control of much of the park. He was known as the “Barnum of the Golden Gate,” and his beachside attractions thrived until his death in 1958.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Whitneys also purchased the Cliff House, Sutro Baths and additional plots nearby for future expansion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Whitney’s son used his experience at Playland to help Walt Disney design some of the queues on the earliest attractions at Disneyland. He was Disneyland employee No. 7 and has a window bearing his name on Main Street, U.S.A. After his father’s death, he returned to San Francisco to run Playland himself. After a few years of conflict with his mother over how the park should be run, Whitney Jr. stepped aside.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 1972, a developer named Jeremy Ets-Hokin bought the park, closed it and unceremoniously tore it down. “The developer wanted to build condos up there,” Smith said. “Everyone hated him in the city because, the way they saw it, he stole Playland from them. No one wanted to see Playland go, except the ones who wanted the money.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11925603\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Laffing-Sal-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11925603\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Laffing-Sal-800x1010.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"1010\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Laffing-Sal-800x1010.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Laffing-Sal-1020x1288.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Laffing-Sal-160x202.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Laffing-Sal-1217x1536.jpg 1217w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Laffing-Sal-1622x2048.jpg 1622w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Laffing-Sal-1920x2424.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Laffing-Sal-scaled.jpg 2028w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Laffing Sal in the Funhouse at Playland-at-the-Beach. This item is now on display at the Musée Mécanique. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Jim Smith)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Amusement parks still struggle to survive here\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Only a few amusement parks remain in operation in the Bay Area today: Six Flags Discovery Kingdom in Vallejo, Children’s Fairyland in Oakland and California’s Great America in Santa Clara. Six Flags, the operator of California’s Great America, announced in 2024 that they’ll close the park after the 2027 season.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Luckily, some quirky souvenirs from Playland still exist. At the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk, you’ll find a rare Wurlitzer organ from Playland still in operation. At the Musée Mécanique on San Francisco’s Pier 45, you can still hear animatronic Laffing Sal’s eerie cackle. And a collector named Marianne Stevens purchased the original carousel from Looff’s Hippodrome. At 116 years old, the LeRoy King Carousel, as it’s now known, is part of the Children’s Creativity Museum in Yerba Buena Gardens. There you can still climb aboard a genuine wooden horse, and race to victory with your family and friends.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Try to imagine the first time you saw the lights of an amusement park twinkling in the night sky…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">To me those lights meant fun with my family, fried food and rides! Although to be honest, I’ve always had a little bit of a weak stomach for them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Throughout the last 100 years or so, amusement parks like Marine World, Neptune’s Beach, Great America, and Discovery Kingdom have dotted the landscape here in the Bay Area … a few are still around, but most have closed for good. In a few years, California’s Great America in Santa Clara will become the next to close its gates.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This week we remember two amusement parks that have etched themselves into the imaginations of generations of Bay Area residents….Idora Park in Oakland, and San Francisco’s Playland at the Beach. This episode first aired in 2022, but we’re bringing it back to celebrate the end of summer. I’m Katrina Schwartz. You’re listening to Bay Curious.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sponsor message\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> This week on Bay Curious, we look back at Bay Area amusement \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">parks of yesteryear. Here’s reporter Christopher Beale.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> In the early 1900s, Oakland was bustling with activity. The Model-T was still a few years away so cars weren’t super commonplace yet. The streets buzzed with bicycle and trolley traffic. The main streetcar around Oakland in those days was the San Francisco, Oakland, and San Jose Railway (SFOSJR), which later became the Key System. The streetcar and the land it ran on was owned by the very mob-sounding “Realty Syndicate.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>TJ Fisher: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">An impossibly evil name for a corporation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This is TJ Fisher.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>TJ Fisher: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But the Realty syndicate was exactly what it sounded like.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> TJ grew up on the east coast. He now lives in the Castro in San Francisco and says he has loved and studied amusement parks, pretty much his entire life.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>TJ Fisher: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">When I was in college, I wrote my thesis about different intersectional aspects of the way people enjoyed amusement parks over time and how that reflected other elements of culture.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The way TJ tells it, this group of wealthy businessmen…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>TJ Fisher:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> The Realty Syndicate.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Owned the trolley system, as well as a lot of land around Oakland. The trolleys were busy on the weekdays with commuters, but on the weekends…not so much. This presented a cash flow issue for the Syndicate…they thought if they could boost weekend ridership there might be other benefits down the line. The Syndicate owned a piece of land in what is now North Oakland, just north of where the 24 freeway crosses telegraph now…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>TJ Fisher:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Between 56th and 58th streets and Shaddock and Telegraph.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And they leased it to this company called Ingersoll Amusements. Ingersoll set out to create a beautiful destination for Oaklanders, and the Realty Syndicate put a streetcar stop nearby. In 1904, Idora Park was born, and was an instant hit with locals.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>TJ Fisher:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> It was just about 10 cents admission fee to get in, which would be about $3 in today’s money. That’s a fantastic bargain when you think about what it costs to get into Great America or Disneyland today.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> That admission got you into the more than 17 acre park where there were roller coasters, slides, swings, and all manner of concessions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>TJ Fisher: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You got the beautifully landscaped grounds. You got some, but not all of the rides, there were a huge number of things on display that would really get people thinking about new technologies. They had an experience that showed you what a coal mine was like. So those kinds of things would be included and then concessions like a roller coaster, a carousel would cost extra.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> There was also an opera house, animals, exhibits, and a pool.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>TJ Fisher:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> It was really a center of culture in Oakland before we had as many public city parks as we do today, you would go to Idora to get outside. It was really something that everybody would’ve known.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But the Realty Syndicate…that’s the trolley company…had another motivation for making this part of Oakland a destination.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>TJ Fisher:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> They had always hoped that the area around the park would grow and be considered desirable and they would be able to use the park for another purpose. So it was a huge shock when at the end of 1928, it was announced that the Realty trust was going to subdivide the park and sell it as real estate. And so, things were dismantled very quickly in, uh, early 1929. and now it’s a very residential neighborhood and there are no signs that there was ever an amusement park there.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> When Idora Park was at its most popular in the early nineteen hundreds, another amusement park popped up just across the Bay at San Francisco’s Ocean Beach.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Like Idora Park, new trolley lines played a big role…food stands and small rides greeted passengers riding all the way to the Western end of the line. Soon, the ragtag park would become a beloved getaway for young and old alike.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> In 1914 they actually put in the, uh, merry-go-round there. And that was the Loof’s Hippodrome.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That’s Jim Smith.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I’m the author of, San Francisco’s Playland at the beach the early years and a second book, the golden years.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Loof’s Hippodrome was this ornate carousel, shortly after it opened it this guy John Friedel bought in and brought big ideas to the area residents were calling Chutes-At-The-Beach.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Friedel decided that he wanted to make a first rate park out of it. So in 1919, he went in and started building a lot of rides and people loved it. I mean, at that time there was nothing near like it anywhere else in the west coast.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> George Whitney became the manager in 1926 and formally changed the name of the roughly three block area to Playland-at-the-Beach.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Now, one of the smart things they did was they, uh, made it free to get in the park. There were no gates. You just go down there and If you got a quarter or you got a dime, you could put those towards a ride.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sound of LAFFING SAL\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That’s Laffing Sal, possibly the most iconic character to survive Playland at the Beach. More on that later. She was a sort of early animatronic…and this was way before Disneyland. She was located at the entrance to the Funhouse. Jeanne Lawton remembers visiting in the 60s.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jeanne Lawton:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And always the scariest thing about going into the funhouse when wearing a skirt was the airholes in the floor that randomly would blow a shot of air as you stepped over them. We girls would scream with delight and try to jump over them before they got us, but we never succeeded.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> One night she and her girlfriends discovered the secret to that gag.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jeanne Lawton:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I distinctly remember the day that I happened to look up in the balcony and saw a guy that was working there grinning from ear to ear, and then he would hit the button.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> The Playhouse was one of a whole selection of attractions available at the park. There were food vendors too, one of the more popular ones was actually invented by George Whitney in 1928. When he got the formula right he is said to have yelled “It’s…it!” the It’s-It was born.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jeanne Lawton:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Back then they made their own oatmeal cookies, and then put a scoop of vanilla ice cream in between the cookies, and then dipped it in hot chocolate and handed it to you to eat right away.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You can still buy It’s-Its at many west coast grocery stores in the freezer section. A Lot of the attractions and food stands at Playland at the Beach were independently owned and operated. Like small businesses.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Bob’s roller coaster. The merry-go-round. The Whirlpool ride, which you’re sitting in a cage spinning around, was really fast. They had, uh, Dodger, it was originally, it was called Dodge him, and then it became Dodger and they didn’t ever call ’em bumper cars cuz they didn’t want you to slam ’em into each other. They had to repair ’em. The big dipper when they built that was really tall.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> 65 feet…like a 7 story building.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And it had huge drops and long climbs. It was really an exciting ride and everybody wanted to ride that thing. By the way it had no seat belts, no bar, nothing to hang onto except the rail on each side. People did get hurt on that once in a while\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Like the rides weren’t very safe were they?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> No, there was no OSHA back then! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sound of the Diving Bell\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Diving bell was fun. It was a bell shaped thing. Once you get in, they bolt down the door, you know, tie it down, like in a, like in a submarine They had this 40 foot deep, well, and as you were going down, you’d see fish in there. I mean, it had sharks. It had, uh, Octupie. It had all kinds of different, uh, salt water animals. I think it was designed this way on purpose it leaked, and the guy was operating. It would say uh oh, uh, oh, we’re leaking here. We’re gonna sink. I’m not gonna be able to get this thing back up. He says, let’s see . If we can come up. Well, he’d pull the brakes off this thing. And it would Bob to the top, like a cork. Some people thought it was a riot and some people were scared to death.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> During the great depression in the 30s, Whitney was able to consolidate power by buying out other concessions as they failed, and through this he garnered control of much of Playland-at-the-Beach. The Whitneys even bought the land Playland sat on, and nearby plots for future expansion. But then, in 1958, George Whitney died. Without him, Playland-At-The-Beach was rudderless and began to fail.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> They started pulling down the rides. They tore down the Big Dipper.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The property itself fell into disrepair, and folks stopped visiting. Then in 1972, Whitney’s widow sold Playland-At-The-Beach to a developer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> They sold it to Jeremy Ets-Hokin.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Eventually the property’s new owner decided to close Playland.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> He wanted to build on it and he wanted to build these, uh, big condos up there. Everybody hated him in the city.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale in scene:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Wait, why did people hate him?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> The way they saw it is he stole Playland from them. Nobody wanted to see a Playland go away except for the ones that wanted the money.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Ets-Hoken had the park torn down.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> He had no permission or anything. And then the city fathers got all ticked off. So they put a 10 year moratorium on building on that lot. So he was stuck with this thing. He paid a fortune for it, but he couldn’t do anything with it now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The moratorium eventually ended. Today, those apartments that are various shades of pastels…and the Safeway on 48th Avenue, are where Playland-At-The-Beach… used to be. Thankfully, several important pieces of Playland survived the demolition. A pretty visible one is the big Wurlitzer organ at the Santa Cruz Boardwalk. Of course there is Laffing Sal, at Pier 45’s Musee Mechanique and the original carousel from Loof’s Hippodrome is still around too. Today the Leroy King Carousel, as it’s now known, is operated by the Children’s Creativity Museum at Yerba Buena Gardens. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Deyvi Solorzano:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Key in the ignition. Bell time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Bell rings. Overhead announcement: Welcome to the Leroy King Carousel! While the ride is in motion please remain seated facing forward.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Okay. So I heard that earlier and I thought it was a recording. I didn’t realize that was actually you saying that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Deyvi Solorzano:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> That’s me. Yeah. My name is Deyvi Solorzano. I’m the operations and events coordinator here. carousel operator, amongst many other things.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Is it crazy to stand here every day and operate something that is like several lifetimes older than you like that has been around all this time and people have cared for it. And now it’s in your hands?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Deyvi Solorzano:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Yeah. It’s a really cool job. Um, it’s not even a job. I don’t even, I I’m, I’m literally just here. This is not a job. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Yeah. Don’t, don’t tell them, you’ll do it for free though.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Deyvi Solorzano: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, no, I won’t say that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Idora Park closed 90 years ago…Playland has been gone almost 50 years. There are no pieces of Idora Park remaining, but these tangible memories of Playland-At-The-Beach, like organs, carousels, and weird carnival attractions like Laffing Sal will live on under the watchful eye of their caretakers. Allowing the next generation of thrill seekers, and those chasing nostalgia another trip back in time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> That was reporter Christopher Beale. Thanks to David Gallagher, Mike Winslow and Carol Tang for their help with this story.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We’ve got pictures galore of these old parks on our website … be sure to check them out at BayCurious.org. And while you are there, take a moment to vote in our August voting round.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Here are your choices:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 1:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> How did Telegraph Avenue in Berkeley and Oakland become such a hub of East African cuisine?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 2:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> What was South San Francisco “the birthplace of biotechnology,” and why is it still home to so much of the biotech industry today? Why didn’t it develop closer to universities in Palo Alto or Berkeley?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 3:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> What’s the history of the concrete ruins in American Canyon right off Highway 29?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> These three are neck and neck right now…but there’s still time to make your voice heard. Go to Bay Curious dot org to cast your vote.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Our team will be off next week for Labor Day, but we’ll be back with a brand new episode on September 11th.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Our show is produced by Gabriela Glueck, Christopher Beale and me, Katrina Schwartz.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">With extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Sprenger, Jen Chien, Ethan Toven-Lindsey and everyone on team KQED. Thanks for listening.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"excerpt": "Journey back in time to remember two Bay Area amusement parks that have etched themselves into the imaginations of generations of residents: Idora Park in Oakland and San Francisco's Playland at the Beach.",
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"title": "Idora Park and Playland-at-the-Beach: Bay Area Amusement Parks of a Bygone Era | KQED",
"description": "Journey back in time to remember two Bay Area amusement parks that have etched themselves into the imaginations of generations of residents: Idora Park in Oakland and San Francisco's Playland at the Beach.",
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"headline": "Idora Park and Playland-at-the-Beach: Bay Area Amusement Parks of a Bygone Era",
"datePublished": "2025-08-28T03:00:16-07:00",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story originally published September 15, 2022. It has been updated to reflect that Six Flags now owns California’s Great America and in 2024 it announced that the park will close after the 2027 season.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While the rest of the country cools off and settles into fall, the Bay Area has a couple of months of warm weather that seem designed for a trip to an old-fashioned amusement park. For generations Bay Area residents have sought fresh air, community and thrills. Many of these parks are gone now, and their ultimate demise was the result of a very Bay Area problem: sky-high real estate values.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" loading=\"lazy\" />\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Bay Curious\u003c/a> is a podcast that answers your questions about the Bay Area.\n Subscribe on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>,\n \u003ca href=\"http://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">NPR One\u003c/a> or your favorite podcast platform.\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>A center of culture in Oakland\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Oakland was a city on the move at the turn of the century. Still a few years from the automobile becoming ubiquitous, the city bustled with kinetic energy from bicycles, pedestrians and streetcars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A group of business and property owners who called themselves the Realty Syndicate owned most of the streetcars and the land they ran over. Commuters used the trolleys on weekdays, but on the weekends there wasn’t much happening around Oakland that necessitated a streetcar ride.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Realty Syndicate came up with a strategy to increase weekend ridership and the value of land it owned in North Oakland — a parcel bordered by Telegraph and Shattuck avenues to the east and west, and 58th and 56th streets to the north and south. There was already a sleepy neighborhood park there, called Ayala Park, but Realty Syndicate had big plans for it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The syndicate leased Ayala Park to Ingersoll Amusements, who built a beautiful amusement park destination for Oaklanders. They named it Idora Park and opened its doors to the public in 1903. Visitors could conveniently reach it by riding the trolleys owned by the syndicate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11925587\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Idora-Park-Entrance.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11925587 size-medium\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Idora-Park-Entrance-800x513.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"513\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Idora-Park-Entrance-800x513.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Idora-Park-Entrance-1020x653.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Idora-Park-Entrance-160x103.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Idora-Park-Entrance.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The main entrance of Oakland’s Idora Park. \u003ccite>(JL/Oakland LocalWiki)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>For the price of admission, just $0.10, visitors could access Idora Park’s beautifully landscaped grounds with many attractions and exhibits on display.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There were a huge number of things that would get people thinking about new technologies,” said amusement park historian TJ Fisher. “They had an experience that showed you what a coal mine was like.” Concessions and some of the rides cost a little extra, and Idora Park had swings, slides, a bandstand, a scenic railway and a pool, which was segregated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Recounting his life story to the Bancroft Library in Berkeley, native Oaklander and Olympic gold medalist Archie Williams remembered being barred from joining his friends at the Idora Park pool because of a sign that read “No Blacks Allowed!”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11925584\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Idora-Park.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11925584\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Idora-Park.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"329\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Idora-Park.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Idora-Park-160x66.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Idora Park in 1910. \u003ccite>(JL/Oakland LocalWiki)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>After the 1906 earthquake, the Realty Syndicate used Idora Park as a home base to house and support several thousand refugees fleeing the destruction in San Francisco. In the years that followed, the park became an informal community center where demonstrations, performances and political rallies took place.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was really a center of culture in Oakland before we had as many public city parks as we do today,” Fisher said. “It was something everybody would have known.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The neighborhood around Idora Park continued to grow in popularity, and land values in the area started to rise. “At the end of 1928 it was announced that the [Realty Syndicate] was going to subdivide the park, and sell it as real estate,” Fisher said. Idora Park closed and, by the end of 1929, was demolished. Homes quickly went up, the first in Oakland with underground plumbing, and many of them are still standing today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s no sign there was ever an amusement park there,” Fisher said of the now quiet neighborhood just north of the 24 freeway. “Which is a real shame, because it was an important part of civic life in Oakland for so long.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>San Francisco’s very own beachside attraction\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Ocean Beach was already a popular — though hard-to-reach — destination for San Franciscans at the turn of the 20th century. The Cliff House restaurant and nearby Sutro Baths attracted people with the means to make the trip west, but when the city’s \u003cem>trolleys\u003c/em> reached the western part of the city, the makeup of the neighborhood began to shift.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Almost immediately vendors and concessions began popping up on the beach to take advantage of the tourist traffic. Over a decade or so, a small, disorganized amusement park began to assemble at Ocean Beach.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11925590\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Hippodrome-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11925590\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Hippodrome-800x506.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"506\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Hippodrome-800x506.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Hippodrome-1020x646.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Hippodrome-160x101.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Hippodrome-1536x972.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Hippodrome-2048x1297.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Hippodrome-1920x1216.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Looff’s Hippodrome at night. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Jim Smith)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“In 1914 they actually put in the merry-go-round down there. That was the Looff’s Hippodrome,” said historian Jim Smith, author of \u003cem>San Francisco’s Playland at the Beach: The Early Years\u003c/em> and \u003cem>San Francisco’s Playland at the Beach: The Golden Years\u003c/em>. Other attractions like Shoot-the-Chutes — a primitive log flume ride — soon popped up, and the park gained popularity. Within a few years a businessman named John Friedle stepped in with financial investments and big ideas for the area now known by residents as “Chutes-at-the-Beach.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Friedle wanted to make a first-rate park out of it,” Smith said. He expanded the park’s offerings, building the famous 65-foot-high Big Dipper roller coaster. He eventually stepped aside, and in 1926 George Whitney took over and gave the park the name that would stick: “Playland-at-the-Beach.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11925592\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/PlayLand-At-the-Beach-1.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11925592\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/PlayLand-At-the-Beach-1-800x620.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"620\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/PlayLand-At-the-Beach-1-800x620.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/PlayLand-At-the-Beach-1-1020x791.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/PlayLand-At-the-Beach-1-160x124.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/PlayLand-At-the-Beach-1-1536x1190.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/PlayLand-At-the-Beach-1.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Playland-at-the-Beach midway in the 1940s. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Jim Smith)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Playland-at-the-Beach becomes beloved\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Under Whitney, the various independent concessionaires began to work together. “They made it free to get in,” said Smith. “There were no gates, and if you had a dime or a quarter, you could put it toward a ride.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rides like the Skyliner, the Big Dipper, Dodg ‘Em, the Scrambler, the Twister and the Diving Bell thrilled guests over the years, but one quirky attraction called the Fun House etched itself into the memory of Bay Area resident Jeanne Lawton, who would often go to Playland-at-the-Beach in the 1960s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The scariest thing about going into the Fun House when wearing a skirt was the air holes in the floor,” Lawton said, referring to something pretty unsavory: Seemingly at random, jets of air would burst up from the floor, riffling the skirts of unsuspecting women. One night, Lawton and her friends figured out what was actually going on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I happened to look up in the balcony and saw a guy that was working there grinning from ear to ear,” she said. The man would wait until women walked over the air holes, “and then he would hit the button,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lawton has fond memories, too. Playland owner George Whitney invented the famous \u003ca class=\"c-link\" href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/10710678/its-it-the-san-francisco-treat-that-sparked-a-cult-following\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" data-stringify-link=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/10710678/its-it-the-san-francisco-treat-that-sparked-a-cult-following\" data-sk=\"tooltip_parent\" data-remove-tab-index=\"true\">Its-It ice cream sandwich\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They made their own oatmeal cookies,” Lawton remembered fondly, “and then put a scoop of vanilla ice cream in between the cookies, dipped it in hot chocolate and handed it to you to eat right away.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11925601\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Playland-Rides.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11925601\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Playland-Rides-800x553.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"553\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Playland-Rides-800x553.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Playland-Rides-1020x705.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Playland-Rides-160x111.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Playland-Rides-1536x1062.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Playland-Rides.jpg 1820w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An overview showing the Skylark and the Diving Bell at Playland-at-the-Beach. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Jim Smith)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Playland’s slow decline\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>During the Great Depression, many of Playland’s independently owned concessionaires struggled to stay open as attendance at the park dwindled. George Whitney bought up many of those concessions, gaining control of much of the park. He was known as the “Barnum of the Golden Gate,” and his beachside attractions thrived until his death in 1958.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Whitneys also purchased the Cliff House, Sutro Baths and additional plots nearby for future expansion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Whitney’s son used his experience at Playland to help Walt Disney design some of the queues on the earliest attractions at Disneyland. He was Disneyland employee No. 7 and has a window bearing his name on Main Street, U.S.A. After his father’s death, he returned to San Francisco to run Playland himself. After a few years of conflict with his mother over how the park should be run, Whitney Jr. stepped aside.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 1972, a developer named Jeremy Ets-Hokin bought the park, closed it and unceremoniously tore it down. “The developer wanted to build condos up there,” Smith said. “Everyone hated him in the city because, the way they saw it, he stole Playland from them. No one wanted to see Playland go, except the ones who wanted the money.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11925603\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Laffing-Sal-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11925603\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Laffing-Sal-800x1010.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"1010\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Laffing-Sal-800x1010.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Laffing-Sal-1020x1288.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Laffing-Sal-160x202.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Laffing-Sal-1217x1536.jpg 1217w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Laffing-Sal-1622x2048.jpg 1622w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Laffing-Sal-1920x2424.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/09/Laffing-Sal-scaled.jpg 2028w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Laffing Sal in the Funhouse at Playland-at-the-Beach. This item is now on display at the Musée Mécanique. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Jim Smith)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Amusement parks still struggle to survive here\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Only a few amusement parks remain in operation in the Bay Area today: Six Flags Discovery Kingdom in Vallejo, Children’s Fairyland in Oakland and California’s Great America in Santa Clara. Six Flags, the operator of California’s Great America, announced in 2024 that they’ll close the park after the 2027 season.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Luckily, some quirky souvenirs from Playland still exist. At the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk, you’ll find a rare Wurlitzer organ from Playland still in operation. At the Musée Mécanique on San Francisco’s Pier 45, you can still hear animatronic Laffing Sal’s eerie cackle. And a collector named Marianne Stevens purchased the original carousel from Looff’s Hippodrome. At 116 years old, the LeRoy King Carousel, as it’s now known, is part of the Children’s Creativity Museum in Yerba Buena Gardens. There you can still climb aboard a genuine wooden horse, and race to victory with your family and friends.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Try to imagine the first time you saw the lights of an amusement park twinkling in the night sky…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">To me those lights meant fun with my family, fried food and rides! Although to be honest, I’ve always had a little bit of a weak stomach for them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Throughout the last 100 years or so, amusement parks like Marine World, Neptune’s Beach, Great America, and Discovery Kingdom have dotted the landscape here in the Bay Area … a few are still around, but most have closed for good. In a few years, California’s Great America in Santa Clara will become the next to close its gates.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This week we remember two amusement parks that have etched themselves into the imaginations of generations of Bay Area residents….Idora Park in Oakland, and San Francisco’s Playland at the Beach. This episode first aired in 2022, but we’re bringing it back to celebrate the end of summer. I’m Katrina Schwartz. You’re listening to Bay Curious.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sponsor message\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> This week on Bay Curious, we look back at Bay Area amusement \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">parks of yesteryear. Here’s reporter Christopher Beale.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> In the early 1900s, Oakland was bustling with activity. The Model-T was still a few years away so cars weren’t super commonplace yet. The streets buzzed with bicycle and trolley traffic. The main streetcar around Oakland in those days was the San Francisco, Oakland, and San Jose Railway (SFOSJR), which later became the Key System. The streetcar and the land it ran on was owned by the very mob-sounding “Realty Syndicate.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>TJ Fisher: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">An impossibly evil name for a corporation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This is TJ Fisher.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>TJ Fisher: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But the Realty syndicate was exactly what it sounded like.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> TJ grew up on the east coast. He now lives in the Castro in San Francisco and says he has loved and studied amusement parks, pretty much his entire life.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>TJ Fisher: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">When I was in college, I wrote my thesis about different intersectional aspects of the way people enjoyed amusement parks over time and how that reflected other elements of culture.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The way TJ tells it, this group of wealthy businessmen…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>TJ Fisher:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> The Realty Syndicate.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Owned the trolley system, as well as a lot of land around Oakland. The trolleys were busy on the weekdays with commuters, but on the weekends…not so much. This presented a cash flow issue for the Syndicate…they thought if they could boost weekend ridership there might be other benefits down the line. The Syndicate owned a piece of land in what is now North Oakland, just north of where the 24 freeway crosses telegraph now…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>TJ Fisher:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Between 56th and 58th streets and Shaddock and Telegraph.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And they leased it to this company called Ingersoll Amusements. Ingersoll set out to create a beautiful destination for Oaklanders, and the Realty Syndicate put a streetcar stop nearby. In 1904, Idora Park was born, and was an instant hit with locals.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>TJ Fisher:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> It was just about 10 cents admission fee to get in, which would be about $3 in today’s money. That’s a fantastic bargain when you think about what it costs to get into Great America or Disneyland today.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> That admission got you into the more than 17 acre park where there were roller coasters, slides, swings, and all manner of concessions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>TJ Fisher: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You got the beautifully landscaped grounds. You got some, but not all of the rides, there were a huge number of things on display that would really get people thinking about new technologies. They had an experience that showed you what a coal mine was like. So those kinds of things would be included and then concessions like a roller coaster, a carousel would cost extra.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> There was also an opera house, animals, exhibits, and a pool.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>TJ Fisher:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> It was really a center of culture in Oakland before we had as many public city parks as we do today, you would go to Idora to get outside. It was really something that everybody would’ve known.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But the Realty Syndicate…that’s the trolley company…had another motivation for making this part of Oakland a destination.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>TJ Fisher:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> They had always hoped that the area around the park would grow and be considered desirable and they would be able to use the park for another purpose. So it was a huge shock when at the end of 1928, it was announced that the Realty trust was going to subdivide the park and sell it as real estate. And so, things were dismantled very quickly in, uh, early 1929. and now it’s a very residential neighborhood and there are no signs that there was ever an amusement park there.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> When Idora Park was at its most popular in the early nineteen hundreds, another amusement park popped up just across the Bay at San Francisco’s Ocean Beach.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Like Idora Park, new trolley lines played a big role…food stands and small rides greeted passengers riding all the way to the Western end of the line. Soon, the ragtag park would become a beloved getaway for young and old alike.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> In 1914 they actually put in the, uh, merry-go-round there. And that was the Loof’s Hippodrome.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That’s Jim Smith.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I’m the author of, San Francisco’s Playland at the beach the early years and a second book, the golden years.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Loof’s Hippodrome was this ornate carousel, shortly after it opened it this guy John Friedel bought in and brought big ideas to the area residents were calling Chutes-At-The-Beach.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Friedel decided that he wanted to make a first rate park out of it. So in 1919, he went in and started building a lot of rides and people loved it. I mean, at that time there was nothing near like it anywhere else in the west coast.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> George Whitney became the manager in 1926 and formally changed the name of the roughly three block area to Playland-at-the-Beach.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Now, one of the smart things they did was they, uh, made it free to get in the park. There were no gates. You just go down there and If you got a quarter or you got a dime, you could put those towards a ride.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sound of LAFFING SAL\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That’s Laffing Sal, possibly the most iconic character to survive Playland at the Beach. More on that later. She was a sort of early animatronic…and this was way before Disneyland. She was located at the entrance to the Funhouse. Jeanne Lawton remembers visiting in the 60s.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jeanne Lawton:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And always the scariest thing about going into the funhouse when wearing a skirt was the airholes in the floor that randomly would blow a shot of air as you stepped over them. We girls would scream with delight and try to jump over them before they got us, but we never succeeded.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> One night she and her girlfriends discovered the secret to that gag.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jeanne Lawton:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I distinctly remember the day that I happened to look up in the balcony and saw a guy that was working there grinning from ear to ear, and then he would hit the button.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> The Playhouse was one of a whole selection of attractions available at the park. There were food vendors too, one of the more popular ones was actually invented by George Whitney in 1928. When he got the formula right he is said to have yelled “It’s…it!” the It’s-It was born.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jeanne Lawton:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Back then they made their own oatmeal cookies, and then put a scoop of vanilla ice cream in between the cookies, and then dipped it in hot chocolate and handed it to you to eat right away.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You can still buy It’s-Its at many west coast grocery stores in the freezer section. A Lot of the attractions and food stands at Playland at the Beach were independently owned and operated. Like small businesses.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Bob’s roller coaster. The merry-go-round. The Whirlpool ride, which you’re sitting in a cage spinning around, was really fast. They had, uh, Dodger, it was originally, it was called Dodge him, and then it became Dodger and they didn’t ever call ’em bumper cars cuz they didn’t want you to slam ’em into each other. They had to repair ’em. The big dipper when they built that was really tall.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> 65 feet…like a 7 story building.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And it had huge drops and long climbs. It was really an exciting ride and everybody wanted to ride that thing. By the way it had no seat belts, no bar, nothing to hang onto except the rail on each side. People did get hurt on that once in a while\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Like the rides weren’t very safe were they?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> No, there was no OSHA back then! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sound of the Diving Bell\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Diving bell was fun. It was a bell shaped thing. Once you get in, they bolt down the door, you know, tie it down, like in a, like in a submarine They had this 40 foot deep, well, and as you were going down, you’d see fish in there. I mean, it had sharks. It had, uh, Octupie. It had all kinds of different, uh, salt water animals. I think it was designed this way on purpose it leaked, and the guy was operating. It would say uh oh, uh, oh, we’re leaking here. We’re gonna sink. I’m not gonna be able to get this thing back up. He says, let’s see . If we can come up. Well, he’d pull the brakes off this thing. And it would Bob to the top, like a cork. Some people thought it was a riot and some people were scared to death.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> During the great depression in the 30s, Whitney was able to consolidate power by buying out other concessions as they failed, and through this he garnered control of much of Playland-at-the-Beach. The Whitneys even bought the land Playland sat on, and nearby plots for future expansion. But then, in 1958, George Whitney died. Without him, Playland-At-The-Beach was rudderless and began to fail.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> They started pulling down the rides. They tore down the Big Dipper.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The property itself fell into disrepair, and folks stopped visiting. Then in 1972, Whitney’s widow sold Playland-At-The-Beach to a developer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> They sold it to Jeremy Ets-Hokin.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Eventually the property’s new owner decided to close Playland.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> He wanted to build on it and he wanted to build these, uh, big condos up there. Everybody hated him in the city.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale in scene:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Wait, why did people hate him?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> The way they saw it is he stole Playland from them. Nobody wanted to see a Playland go away except for the ones that wanted the money.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Ets-Hoken had the park torn down.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim Smith:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> He had no permission or anything. And then the city fathers got all ticked off. So they put a 10 year moratorium on building on that lot. So he was stuck with this thing. He paid a fortune for it, but he couldn’t do anything with it now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The moratorium eventually ended. Today, those apartments that are various shades of pastels…and the Safeway on 48th Avenue, are where Playland-At-The-Beach… used to be. Thankfully, several important pieces of Playland survived the demolition. A pretty visible one is the big Wurlitzer organ at the Santa Cruz Boardwalk. Of course there is Laffing Sal, at Pier 45’s Musee Mechanique and the original carousel from Loof’s Hippodrome is still around too. Today the Leroy King Carousel, as it’s now known, is operated by the Children’s Creativity Museum at Yerba Buena Gardens. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Deyvi Solorzano:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Key in the ignition. Bell time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Bell rings. Overhead announcement: Welcome to the Leroy King Carousel! While the ride is in motion please remain seated facing forward.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Okay. So I heard that earlier and I thought it was a recording. I didn’t realize that was actually you saying that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Deyvi Solorzano:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> That’s me. Yeah. My name is Deyvi Solorzano. I’m the operations and events coordinator here. carousel operator, amongst many other things.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Is it crazy to stand here every day and operate something that is like several lifetimes older than you like that has been around all this time and people have cared for it. And now it’s in your hands?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Deyvi Solorzano:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Yeah. It’s a really cool job. Um, it’s not even a job. I don’t even, I I’m, I’m literally just here. This is not a job. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Yeah. Don’t, don’t tell them, you’ll do it for free though.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Deyvi Solorzano: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, no, I won’t say that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christopher Beale:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Idora Park closed 90 years ago…Playland has been gone almost 50 years. There are no pieces of Idora Park remaining, but these tangible memories of Playland-At-The-Beach, like organs, carousels, and weird carnival attractions like Laffing Sal will live on under the watchful eye of their caretakers. Allowing the next generation of thrill seekers, and those chasing nostalgia another trip back in time.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> That was reporter Christopher Beale. Thanks to David Gallagher, Mike Winslow and Carol Tang for their help with this story.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We’ve got pictures galore of these old parks on our website … be sure to check them out at BayCurious.org. And while you are there, take a moment to vote in our August voting round.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Here are your choices:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 1:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> How did Telegraph Avenue in Berkeley and Oakland become such a hub of East African cuisine?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 2:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> What was South San Francisco “the birthplace of biotechnology,” and why is it still home to so much of the biotech industry today? Why didn’t it develop closer to universities in Palo Alto or Berkeley?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Voice 3:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> What’s the history of the concrete ruins in American Canyon right off Highway 29?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Katrina Schwartz:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> These three are neck and neck right now…but there’s still time to make your voice heard. Go to Bay Curious dot org to cast your vote.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Our team will be off next week for Labor Day, but we’ll be back with a brand new episode on September 11th.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Our show is produced by Gabriela Glueck, Christopher Beale and me, Katrina Schwartz.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">With extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Sprenger, Jen Chien, Ethan Toven-Lindsey and everyone on team KQED. Thanks for listening.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"slug": "transcript-proposition-36-would-increase-penalties-for-some-drug-and-theft-crimes",
"title": "Proposition 36 Would Increase Penalties for Some Drug and Theft Crimes",
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"headTitle": "Proposition 36 Would Increase Penalties for Some Drug and Theft Crimes | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cem>Ana De Almeida Amaral contributed to this episode. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Prop Fest\u003c/a> is a collaboration from Bay Curious and The Bay podcasts, where we break down each of the 10 statewide propositions that will be on your November 2024 ballot. Check out \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">KQED’s Voter Guide\u003c/a> for more information on state and local races.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2014, Californians passed Prop 47, a criminal justice reform measure aimed at sending fewer low-level offenders for drug and theft crimes to prison. Now, Californians are being asked if they want to roll back some of those reforms, and increase the penalties. KQED Politics Correspondent and co-host of Political Breakdown Marisa Lagos takes us through the history, data and arguments of this prop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC2352266478&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a transcript of the episode.\u003c/em>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So, recently I was in one of those big box stores in search of a humble can of shaving cream… I make my way to the pharmacy section. Find the right aisle. But then I get to the shelf and … my shaving cream is locked behind plexiglass.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Been there before. But with toothpaste. And Tums. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Right. I mean, we’re talking about a can of shaving cream that costs $2.19… and yet, there I was. Ringing a bell, having someone unlock this cabinet for me, annoyed that this is the state of affairs where I live…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Also I don’t know if it’s \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">just a me thing, \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">but I get super self conscious about inconveniencing employees for some toothpaste. But I digress …\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Same. The proliferation of these plexiglass cases for shaving cream and toothpaste, is just one example of how rising concerns about crime and theft are changing how we live. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But proponents of Prop 36 want to take these measures even further – waaaaay beyond some plexiglass case at the local Target. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay. And y’all – we’ve made it! To the final episode of Prop Fest, our ten part series that goes deep on the California propositions.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">All so you can vote with confidence! Today we’re digging into Proposition 36, which would increase penalties for some drug and theft-related crimes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> It’s a rollback of criminal justice reforms from a decade ago – and would put more people behind bars in California.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> But doing so would cost the state money that would otherwise be used for treatment programs that are working.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We’ll get into it all, right after this. Stay with us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">SPONSOR MESSAGE\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Alrighty, for our final day of Prop Fest, we’re discussing Prop 36, which will read about like this on your ballot..\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Samantha Lim:\u003c/b> Prop 36 is a statute that allows felony charges and increases sentences for certain drug and theft crimes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">To help us understand what’s at stake with Prop 36, I’m joined by KQED politics correspondent and co-host of the podcast Political Breakdown, Marisa Lagos. Hey, Marisa.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Hey, Olivia.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So Prop 36 has a lot of parts to it which will break down one at a time in just a minute. But to kick us off broadly, what is Prop 36 flooking to do?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I mean, essentially it is looking to crack down on both shoplifting and sort of low level thefts and drug use, which its backers say are sort of the responsible for a lot of the homelessness and kind of the crisis you see in retail stores where everything is locked up. And what they see is really a chaotic sort of state of play on the ground here in California.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Now, Prop 36 has undone some of the changes that voters ushered in in 2014 with the passage of Prop 47, which, you know, is one of the probably biggest criminal justice reforms that California has ever passed. Let’s walk through a little bit like what did that prop do? Because so much of 36 is about unwinding, undoing 47.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">When Prop 47 passed, we were kind of in this era of trying to reverse a lot of the tough on crime laws. And that wasn’t just out of the goodness of everybody’s heart in California, it’s because the Supreme Court of the United States told California, your prisons are overcrowded. It’s resulting in unsafe conditions for prisoners, and you must figure out a way to reduce the prison population, or we’re just going to start letting people out of the state prisons. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so this was one in a series of initiatives that were put forward both by the Democratic governor at the time, Jerry Brown, passed by lawmakers. And then this one was one that kind of came from the outside. Proponents gathered signatures and put it on the ballot. And essentially their argument at the time was, hey, why are we wasting bed space on people who aren’t actually a danger to society? They’re drug users. They’re poor people who are stealing because they’re poor. They should not be in state prison. They should be getting help. And if we pass this, we can use the money we’d save on putting them in prison to actually help them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Let’s use it for reentry programs, for drug treatment, programs, for rehabilitation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Prop 47 passed in 2014 with nearly 60% California voters voting in favor. How’s it all gone over?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think you can argue it did what it set out to do. It saved $800 million a year in prison costs. And that money was invested into programs that have largely had very successful track records. I mean, if you look at the recidivism rates of people who are just let out of state prison versus those who go into Prop 47-funded programs, there’s no comparison. People who participate in these 47 funded programs are incredibly unlikely to re-offend. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so I think part of what we’re talking about here is like. It’s almost like folks are having two different conversations because the proponents of Prop 47 would say, look, we saved this money. We helped people in the process. And the folks on the other side are like, Yeah, but we still have problems with homelessness and drug use and theft. And so, you know, I don’t think anybody who promoted Prop 47 argued that this would end those other issues. I think the question is whether Prop 47 contributed to them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And that’s a question that’s tricky to answer from a data perspective. What can we say about?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Alright well first let’s talk about theft. In truth, really, a lot of the of problems we’ve seen from a numbers perspective actually only went up in the last couple of years. The first several years after Prop 47 passed, there was n ot a huge spike in shoplifting, there was not a huge spike in a lot of the types of, you know, retail theft that have gotten so much attention. But since the pandemic, we have seen some upticks. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I’ll just flag because this is who’s backing this: law enforcement never liked Prop 47. And so a lot of what we’re seeing now, I think, is a reaction to a policy that was always sort of reviled within the police and prosecutor community.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So you talked a little bit about how Prop 47 worked. What were some of the critiques that people have had about Prop 47?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Right. So I think people who are critical of this see it as kind of letting people off the hook. They think that a misdemeanor is not a serious enough consequence. If somebody is repeatedly shoplifting, if somebody is going into a store again and again and stealing an amount that’s under $950, which is that felony threshold. But that, you know, they know they can get away with it, essentially. And so what we have seen is a real decrease in the number of arrests that are made for those types of thefts. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And then obviously, we have seen just an explosion of the fentanyl crisis on our streets. You know, in our hospitals. You just have such a dire situation with this incredibly addictive drug that also is so strong that it leads to a lot of overdoses. And so, you know, I think the people backing Prop 36 think that there is a tie between what changed in 2014 with Prop 47 and the fentanyl crisis, and it’s not just because the drugs are stronger, but it’s because. There is not an incentive for drug users to accept treatment if they get arrested. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I know this is a pretty important nuance in this one – can you explain how those incentives have changed?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> So prior to Prop 47, a lot of district attorneys, if they had somebody who was clearly a drug addict, not necessarily somebody selling drugs, would say, “Hey, you have an option here. You can either take a year in prison or jail. Or you could take drug treatment. And if you complete this drug treatment program, we will wipe that off your record. You will not have a felony drug possession charge anymore.” And a lot of people would take that. But if you’re told it’s going to be a slap on the wrist and a small fine, or maybe you don’t even get arrested at all, you might say, I’m going to keep using.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What we have seen since Prop 47 passed is a real decrease in the number of people who are willing to go into these diversion programs like drug court. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I talked to Yolo County District Attorney Jeff Reisig. He’s a big proponent of Prop 36, and he says that he has seen this reality in his own county, even as they’ve really tried to put resources into these drug courts.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jeff Reisig: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The percentage of the population that these new prop 47 programs are serving is like 15% or lower of the total population of individuals that used to be present in drug courts across California. It may be even lower than that in some places, but I can the data in Yolo shows that we used to on average have anywhere from 340 to 500 people a year in drug courts. And the only way you get into a drug court is if, you know, you were caught with possession of hard drugs, right? Meth. Heroin. Cocaine. Fentanyl. PCP. And then after prop 47 passed, those drug courts just slowly started to disappear because there was no incentive anymore for people to participate. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Voters are now being asked if they want to bring back these harsher penalties. How did this get on the ballot in the first place and why this 180?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. So I mentioned before that this has always been a policy that was very disliked by prosecutors and law enforcement. So district attorneys were kind of the lead folks who crafted Prop 36 and went out to get signatures from voters to put it on the ballot. At the time, as they were collecting these signatures, there was a debate happening in Sacramento about what I’ve alluded to, which is a real crisis for retailers in terms of not just simple shoplifting, people coming in and stealing small amounts of things, but also organized retail theft rings who are coming in. You know, you’ve seen those videos of the smash and grabs, but that’s the tip of the iceberg. You know, we’ve seen a lot of organized criminal gangs essentially target big box stores, small mom and pop stores, steal huge amounts of things and then resell them maybe on online marketplaces or on the street. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">As prosecutors were pushing this ballot measure, a lot of these retailers were getting very frustrated that in the past few years, the legislature and Democratic governor hadn’t been willing to take on this issue. And so a lot of them – Home Depot, Wal-Mart, Target – put in $500,000, $1 million to help get this on the ballot there. It is not clear whether they are going to continue to support this ballot measure, because we did see the legislature and Governor Gavin Newsom actually really tackle this issue this year and pass a huge package of laws that are broadly aimed at the more serious organized retail crime issue. But this is something that I think prosecutors had had their eye on for a long time, and they saw the politics shifting as we came out of the pandemic and the visibility of this retail theft issue became so apparent to voters. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so, you know, it went viral on social media. We’ve seen so much outrage on cable news and in the media in general. And I think it just really built to a breaking point where they were … it was very easy for them to ask voters to sign this. And we’re seeing polling now that it’s very likely to pass.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">OK, so that all brings us to where we are this year, considering Proposition 36. It proposes a lot of different changes, and I want to step through some of them now. So let’s start with how it would increase punishments for drug crimes.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So Prop 36 would create something they’re calling treatment mandated felonies. Essentially, it would say if you have been arrested and prosecuted \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">previously\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> for drug possession that a prosecutor would have the option to charge you with a felony on a third arrest, and if they did they could also offer you something like drug court, where you participate in treatment, and if you complete that treatment the charge would be expunged and you receive no jail time. So, treatment mandated felony is what they’re calling it, but to be clear, nobody would be forced into treatment … they would have the option to take the felony or go into drug treatment.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I’ll note that there’s nothing in this ballot measure to increase funding for treatment. And so I think there are open questions about whether if this were to pass, there would actually be enough beds for all the folks who might get arrested and prosecuted under Prop 36. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Alright, and how would Prop 36 impact theft crimes?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, I mean under Prop 36, if you’re a repeat thief, you can also be charged with a felony, even if it’s for a small amount of something, you know, worth less than $950. And this is for people who have two previous convictions. So, prosecutors could send you to prison or county jail for repeatedly stealing things. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This is one of the kind of hearts of the prop 47 criticisms is that one person could sort of repeatedly go into the same store and never face a felony, even if they’re targeting the same place and, you know, really racking up big losses for that store and putting the employees at risk. So this kind of tries to get at that by saying, “hey, look, we’re not going to throw the book at you the first time you steal a small amount of something. But if you keep doing it, we can charge you with a felony by aggregating those offenses together.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And can you just break down for people who aren’t sort of living in the criminal justice world? Felony, misdemeanor. What is the difference there?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. So a misdemeanor is a crime. It can net you up to a year in county jail and fines. So if you get arrested for a misdemeanor, there’s some sort of discretion for a police officer whether they’re going to cite you right there, say a jaywalking ticket, or maybe if you get arrested for something more serious that they can take you and book you into county jail, you know, a misdemeanor DUI, for example, or something like that. A felony generally comes with more serious criminal penalties, including jail or prison time. It also tends to stick on your record longer. It can affect your ability to get a job later on. It can affect your ability to get housing to coach Little League, things like that. It’s a far more serious criminal penalty and one that has kind of longer lasting impacts on somebody’s life beyond just whatever the sentences for the felony that they’re convicted of.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Prop 36 also ups the stakes for people who are charged with selling or providing drugs. Can you sort of explain that, that part of this?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> So essentially, Prop 36 says that if you are caught selling or providing drugs to somebody, you could be admonished in court that if you continue to do this, you could get charged with murder. So, for example, if a dealer is given this warning in court, and then someone were to die because of drugs they sold, a prosecutor would have a better case for a murder charge and it definitely is something that harkens back to the kind of tough on crime laws of the 90s.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Now, on the ballot, this prop is titled The Increased Drug and Theft Penalties and Reduce Homelessness Initiative. But we haven’t talked that much about homelessness. What does this prop have to do with homelessness?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I mean, nothing directly. But as I said before, I think some of the proponents are really connecting the dots between poverty, drug use and homelessness, and particularly drug use and homelessness. You know, Jeff Reisig, the Yolo County D.A., has talked to me extensively about his nephew, who is a drug user, who is homeless and who has a very supportive, large family, who is willing to support him and get him into treatment, and he will not do it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jeff Reisig:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> My nephew, I told you, is a poster child for this whole deal. I mean, literally the poster child because he started using heroin in 2014, and he’s been on the streets ever since, and he steals every day to support his habit. And it’s all misdemeanors. And it’s just a big like, we want to force him into treatment. We want him to be compelled into treatment, but there’s no tool for that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so for someone like Reisig, he feels like if people are homeless and using drugs and they just keep getting essentially misdemeanor tickets for stealing or for that drug use, they’re just going to continue to hurt themselves and the communities around them and that this could be a way to essentially get them into that treatment that they need, that it could push them to do something that they may not be willing to do otherwise.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If Prop 36 passes, what kind of impact could this have on our prison population and thus the budget?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Right. So it would definitely cut into that $800 million that we have been saving because of Prop 47. The nonpartisan Legislative Analyst’s Office did do their own analysis of this. They’re not sure exactly what will happen because we don’t know, you know, how many people will get caught stealing or doing drugs, how many people prosecutors will choose to charge with felonies. But they’re estimating that it could cost tens of millions of dollars a year, to hundreds of millions of dollars a year in added incarceration costs. It’s a lot of money. It is still in the context of a over $100 billion state budget, a tiny percentage of that, something like one half of 1%. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But, you know, I think that you can argue that there will be obviously huge implications for the people who end up locked up. They say that up to a few thousand people could end up in jail and prison who would not be there otherwise. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And then also any of these programs that are doing good work in communities around rehabilitation or reentry, if they’re losing out on that money, there could be sort of domino effects there, because it’s not just the people that are going to be, you know, prosecuted under this. The people who will miss out on opportunities to get help because that money is now being spent on those prosecutions and jailings.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What are supporters of Prop 36 sort of arguing and who are they?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Right. So I mentioned the prosecutors, the District Attorney Association of California as the biggest proponent. We also saw major retailers like Target, Wal-Mart, Walgreens, Home Depot and initially back this. I’m waiting to hear if they’re going to continue to support this or if they’re just going to stay neutral. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think most interestingly, big city mayors – San Francisco’s London Breed, San Jose’s Matt Mahan, San Diego’s Todd Gloria. These are all pretty liberal Democrats who are backing this. I think that they see what we’re seeing reflected in polls, which show that this is wildly popular and that people are blaming them for a lot of these very visible issues both on the streets and in stores.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The California Republican Party is in support and I would say in the state legislature, we’ve seen kind of a split between more moderate members who do support this and more liberal members who are very reticent to return to any sort of tough on crime laws.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And let’s talk opposition. What’s the case being made there and who’s making it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The most high profile opponent of Prop 36 is definitely our Democratic governor, Gavin Newsom. He’s really been a long time proponent for these criminal justice reforms. He also backed Prop 64 to legalize marijuana, which had the effect of essentially like wiping a lot of people’s records. And so this is something I think he feels really strongly about. And he has been really reticent to admit any problems with Prop 47 because it is something that he has backed and I think believes in.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Gov. Gavin Newsom: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Everyone I know is rushing to reform Prop 47 to raise the threshold. OK. That’s not the fundamental issue. The fundamental issue is the other issues that are not 47 related. And that is the nature of retail theft has changed. It’s not just the onesie, twosies – yes, that’s an issue, I don’t deny that – but it’s also become deeply organized. And that’s what we need to go after. And that’s a whole different thing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">He’s out there. You have the legislative leadership who also shepherded a lot of these bills to tackle organized retail theft in opposition. The state Democratic Party has voted to oppose it. And then you have, I think, what you would expect, which is a lot of these criminal justice reform and civil liberties groups. Californians for Safety and Justice, who wrote Prop 47, the ACLU, the Anti Recidivism Coalition. These are groups that are largely on the ground working with the populations that were impacted by 47 that would be impacted by 36. And they say we’ve been down this road before and it didn’t work.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I sat down this year with Tinisch Hollins. She leads Californians for Safety and Justice, which originally wrote Prop 47 and has been one of the biggest leaders in pushing criminal justice reforms.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinisch Hollins:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> We’ve tried tough on crime right? Right. You tried. We’ve tried different policy. We don’t. We not only have scientific data or we have lived experience, and we have decades of proof that that doesn’t work. It doesn’t work as appropriate interventions for addiction.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Another thing, talking to Tinisch and a lot of folks within this world is that they feel like police and law enforcement have not been using the tools that they have at their disposal already to get at these problems. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I mentioned before, you know, you can arrest someone for a misdemeanor. We’ve seen a real pulling back by police since Prop 47 passed. Crime rates have held largely steady in a lot of these kind of property crimes. But clearance rates, which is essentially the arrest rates — how likely are you to get arrested for something? — have gone down by almost half in the last decade or two. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so if you’re in San Francisco and you commit a property crime, only 5% of those people get arrested. That’s not to say prosecuted, just arrested. And prosecutors can’t make a case if there’s no arrest. So Tinisch, I think, feels like this is not necessarily calling for a change in law and policy, but a change in how we apply the laws that already exist.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinisch Hollins: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We already have laws on the books to address those issues, right? Like selling fentanyl is a crime is a felony, right? People can go to jail or prison for that. The question is, “what is the challenge with making arrests?” I’m from San Francisco. I see this all the time. Right? So there’s a lot of public concern around it, and rightfully so, because the tools that law enforcement currently have are not being used. They’re being underutilized.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And how are things looking on the spending front for this one?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It is very uneven. I think about $9 million has been raised on the pro-Prop 36 side versus less than $200,000 for the opposition. Again, I think that this campaign is really just starting in earnest. Having someone like the governor on your side, on the no side, is a huge opportunity for what’s called earned media, right? You don’t have to go out and spend money if you’re the governor. You just talk and people put you on TV. But it does seem to me like the criminal justice reform advocates and the people on the no side, in some ways aren’t spending a lot of political capital and money to try to fight this, maybe because they feel like it’s kind of a foregone conclusion.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">All right. Such a fascinating topic. Thank you for breaking it all down for us, Marisa. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Thank you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Marisa Lagos is KQED’s politics correspondent and co-host of the podcast Political Breakdown.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Alrighty, here’s a semi-condensed review of all that….\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A vote yes on 36 means…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You want to increase sentences for certain drug and theft crimes. \u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You want to establish a new classification of crime, called a \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">treatment-mandated felony \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">that could be issued for certain drug offenses. These would give people charged with some drug felonies the option to get drug treatment instead, and have their record expunged.\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You want judges to be able to warn drug distributors that they could face murder charges if they are caught distributing drugs that lead to a death.\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A vote no would keep things they way they are now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And that’s a wrap on Prop Fest!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Pfew! It has been a journey, but thank you so much for coming along on the ride. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> If you found Prop Fest helpful, please share it with a friend, or give us some love on social media. We want to get the word out so everyone can listen before those ballots are due!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If you’re a new listener, welcome! We hope you’ll stick around. I’m Olivia Allen-Price, the host of Bay Curious, which is a weekly podcast that explores the hidden true stories of the San Francisco Bay Area.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay. We are local, Bay Area news to keep you rooted.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Subscribe to both shows to feel more connected to your Bay Area community, and in the know about what’s going on here!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Prop Fest is made with love by Alan Montecillo, Jessica Kariisa, Olivia Allen-Price, Amanda Font, Christopher Beale, Ana De Almeda Amaral, and me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We get extra support from Katie Sprenger, Jen Chien, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan …\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">…and the whole KQED family. Thank you so much for listening!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> We hope we’ve helped you to vote with confidence. Have a good one.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>Ana De Almeida Amaral contributed to this episode. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Prop Fest\u003c/a> is a collaboration from Bay Curious and The Bay podcasts, where we break down each of the 10 statewide propositions that will be on your November 2024 ballot. Check out \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">KQED’s Voter Guide\u003c/a> for more information on state and local races.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2014, Californians passed Prop 47, a criminal justice reform measure aimed at sending fewer low-level offenders for drug and theft crimes to prison. Now, Californians are being asked if they want to roll back some of those reforms, and increase the penalties. KQED Politics Correspondent and co-host of Political Breakdown Marisa Lagos takes us through the history, data and arguments of this prop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC2352266478&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a transcript of the episode.\u003c/em>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So, recently I was in one of those big box stores in search of a humble can of shaving cream… I make my way to the pharmacy section. Find the right aisle. But then I get to the shelf and … my shaving cream is locked behind plexiglass.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Been there before. But with toothpaste. And Tums. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Right. I mean, we’re talking about a can of shaving cream that costs $2.19… and yet, there I was. Ringing a bell, having someone unlock this cabinet for me, annoyed that this is the state of affairs where I live…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Also I don’t know if it’s \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">just a me thing, \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">but I get super self conscious about inconveniencing employees for some toothpaste. But I digress …\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Same. The proliferation of these plexiglass cases for shaving cream and toothpaste, is just one example of how rising concerns about crime and theft are changing how we live. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But proponents of Prop 36 want to take these measures even further – waaaaay beyond some plexiglass case at the local Target. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay. And y’all – we’ve made it! To the final episode of Prop Fest, our ten part series that goes deep on the California propositions.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">All so you can vote with confidence! Today we’re digging into Proposition 36, which would increase penalties for some drug and theft-related crimes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> It’s a rollback of criminal justice reforms from a decade ago – and would put more people behind bars in California.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> But doing so would cost the state money that would otherwise be used for treatment programs that are working.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We’ll get into it all, right after this. Stay with us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">SPONSOR MESSAGE\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Alrighty, for our final day of Prop Fest, we’re discussing Prop 36, which will read about like this on your ballot..\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Samantha Lim:\u003c/b> Prop 36 is a statute that allows felony charges and increases sentences for certain drug and theft crimes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">To help us understand what’s at stake with Prop 36, I’m joined by KQED politics correspondent and co-host of the podcast Political Breakdown, Marisa Lagos. Hey, Marisa.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Hey, Olivia.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So Prop 36 has a lot of parts to it which will break down one at a time in just a minute. But to kick us off broadly, what is Prop 36 flooking to do?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I mean, essentially it is looking to crack down on both shoplifting and sort of low level thefts and drug use, which its backers say are sort of the responsible for a lot of the homelessness and kind of the crisis you see in retail stores where everything is locked up. And what they see is really a chaotic sort of state of play on the ground here in California.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Now, Prop 36 has undone some of the changes that voters ushered in in 2014 with the passage of Prop 47, which, you know, is one of the probably biggest criminal justice reforms that California has ever passed. Let’s walk through a little bit like what did that prop do? Because so much of 36 is about unwinding, undoing 47.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">When Prop 47 passed, we were kind of in this era of trying to reverse a lot of the tough on crime laws. And that wasn’t just out of the goodness of everybody’s heart in California, it’s because the Supreme Court of the United States told California, your prisons are overcrowded. It’s resulting in unsafe conditions for prisoners, and you must figure out a way to reduce the prison population, or we’re just going to start letting people out of the state prisons. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so this was one in a series of initiatives that were put forward both by the Democratic governor at the time, Jerry Brown, passed by lawmakers. And then this one was one that kind of came from the outside. Proponents gathered signatures and put it on the ballot. And essentially their argument at the time was, hey, why are we wasting bed space on people who aren’t actually a danger to society? They’re drug users. They’re poor people who are stealing because they’re poor. They should not be in state prison. They should be getting help. And if we pass this, we can use the money we’d save on putting them in prison to actually help them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Let’s use it for reentry programs, for drug treatment, programs, for rehabilitation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Prop 47 passed in 2014 with nearly 60% California voters voting in favor. How’s it all gone over?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think you can argue it did what it set out to do. It saved $800 million a year in prison costs. And that money was invested into programs that have largely had very successful track records. I mean, if you look at the recidivism rates of people who are just let out of state prison versus those who go into Prop 47-funded programs, there’s no comparison. People who participate in these 47 funded programs are incredibly unlikely to re-offend. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so I think part of what we’re talking about here is like. It’s almost like folks are having two different conversations because the proponents of Prop 47 would say, look, we saved this money. We helped people in the process. And the folks on the other side are like, Yeah, but we still have problems with homelessness and drug use and theft. And so, you know, I don’t think anybody who promoted Prop 47 argued that this would end those other issues. I think the question is whether Prop 47 contributed to them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And that’s a question that’s tricky to answer from a data perspective. What can we say about?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Alright well first let’s talk about theft. In truth, really, a lot of the of problems we’ve seen from a numbers perspective actually only went up in the last couple of years. The first several years after Prop 47 passed, there was n ot a huge spike in shoplifting, there was not a huge spike in a lot of the types of, you know, retail theft that have gotten so much attention. But since the pandemic, we have seen some upticks. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I’ll just flag because this is who’s backing this: law enforcement never liked Prop 47. And so a lot of what we’re seeing now, I think, is a reaction to a policy that was always sort of reviled within the police and prosecutor community.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So you talked a little bit about how Prop 47 worked. What were some of the critiques that people have had about Prop 47?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Right. So I think people who are critical of this see it as kind of letting people off the hook. They think that a misdemeanor is not a serious enough consequence. If somebody is repeatedly shoplifting, if somebody is going into a store again and again and stealing an amount that’s under $950, which is that felony threshold. But that, you know, they know they can get away with it, essentially. And so what we have seen is a real decrease in the number of arrests that are made for those types of thefts. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And then obviously, we have seen just an explosion of the fentanyl crisis on our streets. You know, in our hospitals. You just have such a dire situation with this incredibly addictive drug that also is so strong that it leads to a lot of overdoses. And so, you know, I think the people backing Prop 36 think that there is a tie between what changed in 2014 with Prop 47 and the fentanyl crisis, and it’s not just because the drugs are stronger, but it’s because. There is not an incentive for drug users to accept treatment if they get arrested. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I know this is a pretty important nuance in this one – can you explain how those incentives have changed?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> So prior to Prop 47, a lot of district attorneys, if they had somebody who was clearly a drug addict, not necessarily somebody selling drugs, would say, “Hey, you have an option here. You can either take a year in prison or jail. Or you could take drug treatment. And if you complete this drug treatment program, we will wipe that off your record. You will not have a felony drug possession charge anymore.” And a lot of people would take that. But if you’re told it’s going to be a slap on the wrist and a small fine, or maybe you don’t even get arrested at all, you might say, I’m going to keep using.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What we have seen since Prop 47 passed is a real decrease in the number of people who are willing to go into these diversion programs like drug court. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I talked to Yolo County District Attorney Jeff Reisig. He’s a big proponent of Prop 36, and he says that he has seen this reality in his own county, even as they’ve really tried to put resources into these drug courts.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jeff Reisig: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The percentage of the population that these new prop 47 programs are serving is like 15% or lower of the total population of individuals that used to be present in drug courts across California. It may be even lower than that in some places, but I can the data in Yolo shows that we used to on average have anywhere from 340 to 500 people a year in drug courts. And the only way you get into a drug court is if, you know, you were caught with possession of hard drugs, right? Meth. Heroin. Cocaine. Fentanyl. PCP. And then after prop 47 passed, those drug courts just slowly started to disappear because there was no incentive anymore for people to participate. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Voters are now being asked if they want to bring back these harsher penalties. How did this get on the ballot in the first place and why this 180?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. So I mentioned before that this has always been a policy that was very disliked by prosecutors and law enforcement. So district attorneys were kind of the lead folks who crafted Prop 36 and went out to get signatures from voters to put it on the ballot. At the time, as they were collecting these signatures, there was a debate happening in Sacramento about what I’ve alluded to, which is a real crisis for retailers in terms of not just simple shoplifting, people coming in and stealing small amounts of things, but also organized retail theft rings who are coming in. You know, you’ve seen those videos of the smash and grabs, but that’s the tip of the iceberg. You know, we’ve seen a lot of organized criminal gangs essentially target big box stores, small mom and pop stores, steal huge amounts of things and then resell them maybe on online marketplaces or on the street. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">As prosecutors were pushing this ballot measure, a lot of these retailers were getting very frustrated that in the past few years, the legislature and Democratic governor hadn’t been willing to take on this issue. And so a lot of them – Home Depot, Wal-Mart, Target – put in $500,000, $1 million to help get this on the ballot there. It is not clear whether they are going to continue to support this ballot measure, because we did see the legislature and Governor Gavin Newsom actually really tackle this issue this year and pass a huge package of laws that are broadly aimed at the more serious organized retail crime issue. But this is something that I think prosecutors had had their eye on for a long time, and they saw the politics shifting as we came out of the pandemic and the visibility of this retail theft issue became so apparent to voters. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so, you know, it went viral on social media. We’ve seen so much outrage on cable news and in the media in general. And I think it just really built to a breaking point where they were … it was very easy for them to ask voters to sign this. And we’re seeing polling now that it’s very likely to pass.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">OK, so that all brings us to where we are this year, considering Proposition 36. It proposes a lot of different changes, and I want to step through some of them now. So let’s start with how it would increase punishments for drug crimes.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So Prop 36 would create something they’re calling treatment mandated felonies. Essentially, it would say if you have been arrested and prosecuted \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">previously\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> for drug possession that a prosecutor would have the option to charge you with a felony on a third arrest, and if they did they could also offer you something like drug court, where you participate in treatment, and if you complete that treatment the charge would be expunged and you receive no jail time. So, treatment mandated felony is what they’re calling it, but to be clear, nobody would be forced into treatment … they would have the option to take the felony or go into drug treatment.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I’ll note that there’s nothing in this ballot measure to increase funding for treatment. And so I think there are open questions about whether if this were to pass, there would actually be enough beds for all the folks who might get arrested and prosecuted under Prop 36. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Alright, and how would Prop 36 impact theft crimes?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, I mean under Prop 36, if you’re a repeat thief, you can also be charged with a felony, even if it’s for a small amount of something, you know, worth less than $950. And this is for people who have two previous convictions. So, prosecutors could send you to prison or county jail for repeatedly stealing things. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This is one of the kind of hearts of the prop 47 criticisms is that one person could sort of repeatedly go into the same store and never face a felony, even if they’re targeting the same place and, you know, really racking up big losses for that store and putting the employees at risk. So this kind of tries to get at that by saying, “hey, look, we’re not going to throw the book at you the first time you steal a small amount of something. But if you keep doing it, we can charge you with a felony by aggregating those offenses together.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And can you just break down for people who aren’t sort of living in the criminal justice world? Felony, misdemeanor. What is the difference there?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. So a misdemeanor is a crime. It can net you up to a year in county jail and fines. So if you get arrested for a misdemeanor, there’s some sort of discretion for a police officer whether they’re going to cite you right there, say a jaywalking ticket, or maybe if you get arrested for something more serious that they can take you and book you into county jail, you know, a misdemeanor DUI, for example, or something like that. A felony generally comes with more serious criminal penalties, including jail or prison time. It also tends to stick on your record longer. It can affect your ability to get a job later on. It can affect your ability to get housing to coach Little League, things like that. It’s a far more serious criminal penalty and one that has kind of longer lasting impacts on somebody’s life beyond just whatever the sentences for the felony that they’re convicted of.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Prop 36 also ups the stakes for people who are charged with selling or providing drugs. Can you sort of explain that, that part of this?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> So essentially, Prop 36 says that if you are caught selling or providing drugs to somebody, you could be admonished in court that if you continue to do this, you could get charged with murder. So, for example, if a dealer is given this warning in court, and then someone were to die because of drugs they sold, a prosecutor would have a better case for a murder charge and it definitely is something that harkens back to the kind of tough on crime laws of the 90s.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Now, on the ballot, this prop is titled The Increased Drug and Theft Penalties and Reduce Homelessness Initiative. But we haven’t talked that much about homelessness. What does this prop have to do with homelessness?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I mean, nothing directly. But as I said before, I think some of the proponents are really connecting the dots between poverty, drug use and homelessness, and particularly drug use and homelessness. You know, Jeff Reisig, the Yolo County D.A., has talked to me extensively about his nephew, who is a drug user, who is homeless and who has a very supportive, large family, who is willing to support him and get him into treatment, and he will not do it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jeff Reisig:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> My nephew, I told you, is a poster child for this whole deal. I mean, literally the poster child because he started using heroin in 2014, and he’s been on the streets ever since, and he steals every day to support his habit. And it’s all misdemeanors. And it’s just a big like, we want to force him into treatment. We want him to be compelled into treatment, but there’s no tool for that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so for someone like Reisig, he feels like if people are homeless and using drugs and they just keep getting essentially misdemeanor tickets for stealing or for that drug use, they’re just going to continue to hurt themselves and the communities around them and that this could be a way to essentially get them into that treatment that they need, that it could push them to do something that they may not be willing to do otherwise.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If Prop 36 passes, what kind of impact could this have on our prison population and thus the budget?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Right. So it would definitely cut into that $800 million that we have been saving because of Prop 47. The nonpartisan Legislative Analyst’s Office did do their own analysis of this. They’re not sure exactly what will happen because we don’t know, you know, how many people will get caught stealing or doing drugs, how many people prosecutors will choose to charge with felonies. But they’re estimating that it could cost tens of millions of dollars a year, to hundreds of millions of dollars a year in added incarceration costs. It’s a lot of money. It is still in the context of a over $100 billion state budget, a tiny percentage of that, something like one half of 1%. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But, you know, I think that you can argue that there will be obviously huge implications for the people who end up locked up. They say that up to a few thousand people could end up in jail and prison who would not be there otherwise. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And then also any of these programs that are doing good work in communities around rehabilitation or reentry, if they’re losing out on that money, there could be sort of domino effects there, because it’s not just the people that are going to be, you know, prosecuted under this. The people who will miss out on opportunities to get help because that money is now being spent on those prosecutions and jailings.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What are supporters of Prop 36 sort of arguing and who are they?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Right. So I mentioned the prosecutors, the District Attorney Association of California as the biggest proponent. We also saw major retailers like Target, Wal-Mart, Walgreens, Home Depot and initially back this. I’m waiting to hear if they’re going to continue to support this or if they’re just going to stay neutral. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think most interestingly, big city mayors – San Francisco’s London Breed, San Jose’s Matt Mahan, San Diego’s Todd Gloria. These are all pretty liberal Democrats who are backing this. I think that they see what we’re seeing reflected in polls, which show that this is wildly popular and that people are blaming them for a lot of these very visible issues both on the streets and in stores.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The California Republican Party is in support and I would say in the state legislature, we’ve seen kind of a split between more moderate members who do support this and more liberal members who are very reticent to return to any sort of tough on crime laws.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And let’s talk opposition. What’s the case being made there and who’s making it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The most high profile opponent of Prop 36 is definitely our Democratic governor, Gavin Newsom. He’s really been a long time proponent for these criminal justice reforms. He also backed Prop 64 to legalize marijuana, which had the effect of essentially like wiping a lot of people’s records. And so this is something I think he feels really strongly about. And he has been really reticent to admit any problems with Prop 47 because it is something that he has backed and I think believes in.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Gov. Gavin Newsom: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Everyone I know is rushing to reform Prop 47 to raise the threshold. OK. That’s not the fundamental issue. The fundamental issue is the other issues that are not 47 related. And that is the nature of retail theft has changed. It’s not just the onesie, twosies – yes, that’s an issue, I don’t deny that – but it’s also become deeply organized. And that’s what we need to go after. And that’s a whole different thing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">He’s out there. You have the legislative leadership who also shepherded a lot of these bills to tackle organized retail theft in opposition. The state Democratic Party has voted to oppose it. And then you have, I think, what you would expect, which is a lot of these criminal justice reform and civil liberties groups. Californians for Safety and Justice, who wrote Prop 47, the ACLU, the Anti Recidivism Coalition. These are groups that are largely on the ground working with the populations that were impacted by 47 that would be impacted by 36. And they say we’ve been down this road before and it didn’t work.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I sat down this year with Tinisch Hollins. She leads Californians for Safety and Justice, which originally wrote Prop 47 and has been one of the biggest leaders in pushing criminal justice reforms.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinisch Hollins:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> We’ve tried tough on crime right? Right. You tried. We’ve tried different policy. We don’t. We not only have scientific data or we have lived experience, and we have decades of proof that that doesn’t work. It doesn’t work as appropriate interventions for addiction.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Another thing, talking to Tinisch and a lot of folks within this world is that they feel like police and law enforcement have not been using the tools that they have at their disposal already to get at these problems. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I mentioned before, you know, you can arrest someone for a misdemeanor. We’ve seen a real pulling back by police since Prop 47 passed. Crime rates have held largely steady in a lot of these kind of property crimes. But clearance rates, which is essentially the arrest rates — how likely are you to get arrested for something? — have gone down by almost half in the last decade or two. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And so if you’re in San Francisco and you commit a property crime, only 5% of those people get arrested. That’s not to say prosecuted, just arrested. And prosecutors can’t make a case if there’s no arrest. So Tinisch, I think, feels like this is not necessarily calling for a change in law and policy, but a change in how we apply the laws that already exist.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tinisch Hollins: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We already have laws on the books to address those issues, right? Like selling fentanyl is a crime is a felony, right? People can go to jail or prison for that. The question is, “what is the challenge with making arrests?” I’m from San Francisco. I see this all the time. Right? So there’s a lot of public concern around it, and rightfully so, because the tools that law enforcement currently have are not being used. They’re being underutilized.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And how are things looking on the spending front for this one?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It is very uneven. I think about $9 million has been raised on the pro-Prop 36 side versus less than $200,000 for the opposition. Again, I think that this campaign is really just starting in earnest. Having someone like the governor on your side, on the no side, is a huge opportunity for what’s called earned media, right? You don’t have to go out and spend money if you’re the governor. You just talk and people put you on TV. But it does seem to me like the criminal justice reform advocates and the people on the no side, in some ways aren’t spending a lot of political capital and money to try to fight this, maybe because they feel like it’s kind of a foregone conclusion.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">All right. Such a fascinating topic. Thank you for breaking it all down for us, Marisa. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Thank you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Marisa Lagos is KQED’s politics correspondent and co-host of the podcast Political Breakdown.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Alrighty, here’s a semi-condensed review of all that….\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A vote yes on 36 means…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You want to increase sentences for certain drug and theft crimes. \u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You want to establish a new classification of crime, called a \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">treatment-mandated felony \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">that could be issued for certain drug offenses. These would give people charged with some drug felonies the option to get drug treatment instead, and have their record expunged.\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You want judges to be able to warn drug distributors that they could face murder charges if they are caught distributing drugs that lead to a death.\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A vote no would keep things they way they are now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And that’s a wrap on Prop Fest!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Pfew! It has been a journey, but thank you so much for coming along on the ride. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> If you found Prop Fest helpful, please share it with a friend, or give us some love on social media. We want to get the word out so everyone can listen before those ballots are due!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If you’re a new listener, welcome! We hope you’ll stick around. I’m Olivia Allen-Price, the host of Bay Curious, which is a weekly podcast that explores the hidden true stories of the San Francisco Bay Area.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay. We are local, Bay Area news to keep you rooted.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Subscribe to both shows to feel more connected to your Bay Area community, and in the know about what’s going on here!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Prop Fest is made with love by Alan Montecillo, Jessica Kariisa, Olivia Allen-Price, Amanda Font, Christopher Beale, Ana De Almeda Amaral, and me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We get extra support from Katie Sprenger, Jen Chien, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan …\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">…and the whole KQED family. Thank you so much for listening!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> We hope we’ve helped you to vote with confidence. Have a good one.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "transcript-should-proposition-35-make-a-tax-to-help-fund-medi-cal-permanent-and-limit-how-the-money-is-used",
"title": "Should Proposition 35 Make a Tax to Help Fund Medi-Cal Permanently and Limit How the Money Is Used?",
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"headTitle": "Should Proposition 35 Make a Tax to Help Fund Medi-Cal Permanently and Limit How the Money Is Used? | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Prop Fest\u003c/a> is a collaboration from Bay Curious and The Bay podcasts, where we break down each of the 10 statewide propositions that will be on your November 2024 ballot. Check out \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">KQED’s Voter Guide\u003c/a> for more information on state and local races.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Today, KQED Health Correspondent Lesley McClurg joins us to explain Prop. 35, which aims to improve Medi-Cal access by making an existing tax on health insurance companies permanent and restricting the allocation of funds to certain Medi-Cal providers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC3989968798&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a transcript of the episode.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>About 14 million Californians rely on Medi-Cal as their primary source of health insurance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Medi-Cal covers some of the state’s most vulnerable patients. Low-income people, seniors and people with disabilities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Despite it being a lifeline for so many people, some folks are worried that state funding for Medi-Cal isn’t stable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay and welcome to Prop Fest, a 10 part series where we break down all the statewide ballot measures you’ll be deciding on this November.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Today on Prop Fest, Prop 35 aims to guarantee state funding for Medi-Cal through this wonky tax that no one really pays much attention to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>But it could make the difference between some Medi-Cal providers getting money and others losing out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> We’ll get into all that and more right after this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[SPONSOR MESSAGE]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Today we’re digging into Prop 35. Here’s how it reads on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>VO:\u003c/b> Prop 35 makes permanent the existing tax on managed health care insurance plans, which, if approved by the federal government, provides revenues to pay for Medi-Cal health care services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We hit up KQED health correspondent Lesley McClurg to help us understand how this lifeline for so many Californians is currently funded and how Prop 35 could change that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prop 35 is about funding Medi-Cal, right? What is the backstory here? Exactly? How did this get on the ballot?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg : \u003c/strong>Medi-Cal is the insurance that the state offers to folks with a limited income or who are on disability. Unfortunately, the problem with Medi-Cal is that there aren’t enough providers willing to give those services or open up their doors to Medi-Cal patients because reimbursement rates for Medi-Cal patients are much lower than for private insurers. More and more people need Medi-Cal, so you want to increase what those providers are making so they have the incentives to do so.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So the California Hospital Association, the California Medical Association, these big groups, are arguing that we need to increase pay to providers to ensure that patients get that care. One way that they get paid or they get funding for Medi-Cal is through this very obscure policy called the managed care tax. This is basically a tax that the state can levy on managed care plans.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A managed care plan is like a Kaiser Permanente or an Anthem Blue Cross and when the state taxes these health care plans, they actually like it. Because the way this sort of works is that the state taxes the health care plans and then the federal government matches those dollars. Let’s say a plan covers 100 patients, a dollar a patient. When the state taxes them that dollar, the feds give the states $2. It doubles the amount of money that’s available for Medi-Cal patients. And this is one way that, since 2009, the state of California has been able to get more money and filter it towards Medi-Cal patients.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So what exactly would Prop 35 change?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>So right now, every few years, there’s what’s called an MCO tax. This managed care tax has been voted into place by the legislature. What would change under Prop 35 is that it would make this tax permanent. So we’re not giving over the possibility that it wouldn’t be voted into place. Right now it’s a little open about how those funds are going to get spent once they make it from the feds to the state. And Prop 35 narrows that window and make sure that certain groups, certain providers get those funds. So it makes it permanent and it directs the funding more specifically.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so let’s talk more about who is behind this. I mean, who is really pushing for Prop 35’s success?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>So the areas where the allocations will be increased would be primary care, specialty care, emergency services, family planning. These are all areas that would would get more direct funding from this tax. And so it’s not surprising then that the groups that represent these doctors are in favor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jodi Hicks: \u003c/strong>What we’re doing is ensuring that this fee is extended permanently and that it’s sustainable, permanent funding that providers can count on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> So Jodi Hicks is the president of Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California, and she has been a major supporter because family planning is a group that will benefit from this bill. And she says that this will increase access to her patients.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jodi Hicks: \u003c/b>What we want is a primary care provider in any part of the community to be incentivized to take all patients in that community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And what’s the argument for directing the funds through this tax specifically?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>No one is arguing that you should take away the MCO tax. In fact, the MCO tax is a necessary way to pull down money from the feds, or a good way for the state to pull down money from the Feds. What is important about Prop 35 is that it is going to make this tax permanent and it also, again, allocates these dollars in a very specific way, rather than giving it up to the legislature to decide how those funds are going to be spent. This has come to a head in our current environment because right now, for example, we’re in this situation where we have a huge budget deficit and there is fear that these dollars that are supposed to be spent on Medi-Cal funding will be used in some other way for different services. And so proponents want to ensure that these dollars coming from the feds go only to health care and go towards Medi-Cal funding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong> And that said, Lesley, not all providers are on board with Prop 35, right? Who are some of the opponents and what are their arguments against this ballot measure?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong> There are some definite groups that won’t benefit from Prop 35. Community health workers, community behavioral health workers, private duty nurses. And also, these funds would not go towards Medi-Cal patients who are under the age of five. So that makes certain groups not support the proposition, like the California Pan Ethnic Health Network, The Children’s Partnership, the California Alliance for Retired Americans, Courage California, the League of Women Voters. So these groups are worried about these specific groups that are are not going to benefit from Prop 35.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mayra Alvarez: \u003c/strong>The difference driving our opposition to Proposition 35 is the restriction imposed by the proposition on how the funds can be used.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong> Mayra Alvarez is the president of The Children’s Partnership, which is an advocacy organization to ensure that health care is available for all children. And her primary argument is that there are going to be some groups that don’t benefit and that we shouldn’t limit how the MCO tax or these funds, these billions of dollars are going to be distributed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mayra Alvarez: \u003c/b> The allocation of funding under Proposition 35 is decided by a group of selected provider organizations. So I don’t disagree about the specificity of making this permanent. What we are concerned with is what are the billions of dollars that will be lost as a result of locking in these rates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I guess, how do proponents respond to that argument that Prop 35 creates a sort of “winner” and “loser” situation?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>They argue that there is some flexibility in the way that it has been written. There’s not automatic funding going to those groups, but there is flexibility and in how the money will be spent and it could be allocated to those groups. So it’s not necessarily going to hurt them. They’re just not automatic recipients.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> So, Lesley, the California Democratic and Republican parties are both for Prop 35. But one person who is not a big supporter is Governor Gavin Newsom. What is his position on Prop 35?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>He has not taken an official position. In some press conferences, he has hinted that he may not support it. And his language has been that he does not want the legislature to be hamstrung or limited in the way that they spend the MCO tax.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prop 35 would limit the MCO taxed to just being used in health care. And in a year like right now, where we have this huge budget deficit that might hamstring other services like education, important services that may be needed. We might need to move these funds around to ensure that other services are not cut. There are some media organizations that have come out in favor of Prop 35 like the Sacramento Bee, but there’s also other media outlets like the Mercury News, the San Francisco Chronicle, the San Diego Union-Tribune. All of these media outlets have argued that this is a maze. This is a budgetary maze that should not be before voters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What do we know about campaign spending on both the yes and the no sides?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg : \u003c/strong>So there hasn’t been any spending so far on the no side. There’s been about almost $81 million raised on the pro side. So big, big funding is going into this right now to ensure that it passes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong> And I guess despite the fact that this is a pretty complicated proposition, do we have any sense yet, Lesley, of whether or not this thing will actually pass or how voters are feeling about it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Yeah, polling data right now is showing that it would most likely pass by about 63%. So currently right now, it’s looking pretty positive for the proposition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>All right, Lesley. Well, thank you so much for breaking this one down. I appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong> Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>In a nutshell, a vote yes on Prop 35 means an existing state tax on health plans that provides funding for certain health programs will become permanent, while also creating new rules around how that money can be spent. A vote no means these new rules would not go into effect and that this existing law on health plans would end in 2027 unless the legislature decides to keep it going.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>And that’s it for this edition of Prop Fest. You can find transcripts for this episode and past ones at \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">kqed.org/prop fest\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Prop Fest is a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. It’s made by Alan Montecillo, Jessica Kariisa, Olivia Allen-Price, Amanda Font, Christopher Beale, Ana De Almeida Amaral, and me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We get extra support from Katie Sprenger, Jen Chien, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan, and the whole KQED family\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong> Tomorrow, we’ll bring you the final episode of Prop Fest with Prop 36.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> You’ve already made it this far, so make sure you stick around for that one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Subscribe to The Bay and Bay Curious so you don’t miss out. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"title": "Should Proposition 35 Make a Tax to Help Fund Medi-Cal Permanently and Limit How the Money Is Used? | KQED",
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"headline": "Should Proposition 35 Make a Tax to Help Fund Medi-Cal Permanently and Limit How the Money Is Used?",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Prop Fest\u003c/a> is a collaboration from Bay Curious and The Bay podcasts, where we break down each of the 10 statewide propositions that will be on your November 2024 ballot. Check out \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">KQED’s Voter Guide\u003c/a> for more information on state and local races.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Today, KQED Health Correspondent Lesley McClurg joins us to explain Prop. 35, which aims to improve Medi-Cal access by making an existing tax on health insurance companies permanent and restricting the allocation of funds to certain Medi-Cal providers.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC3989968798&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a transcript of the episode.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>About 14 million Californians rely on Medi-Cal as their primary source of health insurance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> Medi-Cal covers some of the state’s most vulnerable patients. Low-income people, seniors and people with disabilities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Despite it being a lifeline for so many people, some folks are worried that state funding for Medi-Cal isn’t stable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay and welcome to Prop Fest, a 10 part series where we break down all the statewide ballot measures you’ll be deciding on this November.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Today on Prop Fest, Prop 35 aims to guarantee state funding for Medi-Cal through this wonky tax that no one really pays much attention to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>But it could make the difference between some Medi-Cal providers getting money and others losing out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> We’ll get into all that and more right after this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[SPONSOR MESSAGE]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Today we’re digging into Prop 35. Here’s how it reads on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>VO:\u003c/b> Prop 35 makes permanent the existing tax on managed health care insurance plans, which, if approved by the federal government, provides revenues to pay for Medi-Cal health care services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We hit up KQED health correspondent Lesley McClurg to help us understand how this lifeline for so many Californians is currently funded and how Prop 35 could change that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prop 35 is about funding Medi-Cal, right? What is the backstory here? Exactly? How did this get on the ballot?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg : \u003c/strong>Medi-Cal is the insurance that the state offers to folks with a limited income or who are on disability. Unfortunately, the problem with Medi-Cal is that there aren’t enough providers willing to give those services or open up their doors to Medi-Cal patients because reimbursement rates for Medi-Cal patients are much lower than for private insurers. More and more people need Medi-Cal, so you want to increase what those providers are making so they have the incentives to do so.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So the California Hospital Association, the California Medical Association, these big groups, are arguing that we need to increase pay to providers to ensure that patients get that care. One way that they get paid or they get funding for Medi-Cal is through this very obscure policy called the managed care tax. This is basically a tax that the state can levy on managed care plans.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A managed care plan is like a Kaiser Permanente or an Anthem Blue Cross and when the state taxes these health care plans, they actually like it. Because the way this sort of works is that the state taxes the health care plans and then the federal government matches those dollars. Let’s say a plan covers 100 patients, a dollar a patient. When the state taxes them that dollar, the feds give the states $2. It doubles the amount of money that’s available for Medi-Cal patients. And this is one way that, since 2009, the state of California has been able to get more money and filter it towards Medi-Cal patients.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So what exactly would Prop 35 change?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>So right now, every few years, there’s what’s called an MCO tax. This managed care tax has been voted into place by the legislature. What would change under Prop 35 is that it would make this tax permanent. So we’re not giving over the possibility that it wouldn’t be voted into place. Right now it’s a little open about how those funds are going to get spent once they make it from the feds to the state. And Prop 35 narrows that window and make sure that certain groups, certain providers get those funds. So it makes it permanent and it directs the funding more specifically.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so let’s talk more about who is behind this. I mean, who is really pushing for Prop 35’s success?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>So the areas where the allocations will be increased would be primary care, specialty care, emergency services, family planning. These are all areas that would would get more direct funding from this tax. And so it’s not surprising then that the groups that represent these doctors are in favor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jodi Hicks: \u003c/strong>What we’re doing is ensuring that this fee is extended permanently and that it’s sustainable, permanent funding that providers can count on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> So Jodi Hicks is the president of Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California, and she has been a major supporter because family planning is a group that will benefit from this bill. And she says that this will increase access to her patients.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jodi Hicks: \u003c/b>What we want is a primary care provider in any part of the community to be incentivized to take all patients in that community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And what’s the argument for directing the funds through this tax specifically?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>No one is arguing that you should take away the MCO tax. In fact, the MCO tax is a necessary way to pull down money from the feds, or a good way for the state to pull down money from the Feds. What is important about Prop 35 is that it is going to make this tax permanent and it also, again, allocates these dollars in a very specific way, rather than giving it up to the legislature to decide how those funds are going to be spent. This has come to a head in our current environment because right now, for example, we’re in this situation where we have a huge budget deficit and there is fear that these dollars that are supposed to be spent on Medi-Cal funding will be used in some other way for different services. And so proponents want to ensure that these dollars coming from the feds go only to health care and go towards Medi-Cal funding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong> And that said, Lesley, not all providers are on board with Prop 35, right? Who are some of the opponents and what are their arguments against this ballot measure?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong> There are some definite groups that won’t benefit from Prop 35. Community health workers, community behavioral health workers, private duty nurses. And also, these funds would not go towards Medi-Cal patients who are under the age of five. So that makes certain groups not support the proposition, like the California Pan Ethnic Health Network, The Children’s Partnership, the California Alliance for Retired Americans, Courage California, the League of Women Voters. So these groups are worried about these specific groups that are are not going to benefit from Prop 35.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mayra Alvarez: \u003c/strong>The difference driving our opposition to Proposition 35 is the restriction imposed by the proposition on how the funds can be used.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong> Mayra Alvarez is the president of The Children’s Partnership, which is an advocacy organization to ensure that health care is available for all children. And her primary argument is that there are going to be some groups that don’t benefit and that we shouldn’t limit how the MCO tax or these funds, these billions of dollars are going to be distributed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mayra Alvarez: \u003c/b> The allocation of funding under Proposition 35 is decided by a group of selected provider organizations. So I don’t disagree about the specificity of making this permanent. What we are concerned with is what are the billions of dollars that will be lost as a result of locking in these rates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I guess, how do proponents respond to that argument that Prop 35 creates a sort of “winner” and “loser” situation?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>They argue that there is some flexibility in the way that it has been written. There’s not automatic funding going to those groups, but there is flexibility and in how the money will be spent and it could be allocated to those groups. So it’s not necessarily going to hurt them. They’re just not automatic recipients.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/strong> So, Lesley, the California Democratic and Republican parties are both for Prop 35. But one person who is not a big supporter is Governor Gavin Newsom. What is his position on Prop 35?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>He has not taken an official position. In some press conferences, he has hinted that he may not support it. And his language has been that he does not want the legislature to be hamstrung or limited in the way that they spend the MCO tax.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prop 35 would limit the MCO taxed to just being used in health care. And in a year like right now, where we have this huge budget deficit that might hamstring other services like education, important services that may be needed. We might need to move these funds around to ensure that other services are not cut. There are some media organizations that have come out in favor of Prop 35 like the Sacramento Bee, but there’s also other media outlets like the Mercury News, the San Francisco Chronicle, the San Diego Union-Tribune. All of these media outlets have argued that this is a maze. This is a budgetary maze that should not be before voters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What do we know about campaign spending on both the yes and the no sides?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg : \u003c/strong>So there hasn’t been any spending so far on the no side. There’s been about almost $81 million raised on the pro side. So big, big funding is going into this right now to ensure that it passes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong> And I guess despite the fact that this is a pretty complicated proposition, do we have any sense yet, Lesley, of whether or not this thing will actually pass or how voters are feeling about it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Yeah, polling data right now is showing that it would most likely pass by about 63%. So currently right now, it’s looking pretty positive for the proposition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>All right, Lesley. Well, thank you so much for breaking this one down. I appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong> Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>In a nutshell, a vote yes on Prop 35 means an existing state tax on health plans that provides funding for certain health programs will become permanent, while also creating new rules around how that money can be spent. A vote no means these new rules would not go into effect and that this existing law on health plans would end in 2027 unless the legislature decides to keep it going.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>And that’s it for this edition of Prop Fest. You can find transcripts for this episode and past ones at \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">kqed.org/prop fest\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Prop Fest is a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. It’s made by Alan Montecillo, Jessica Kariisa, Olivia Allen-Price, Amanda Font, Christopher Beale, Ana De Almeida Amaral, and me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We get extra support from Katie Sprenger, Jen Chien, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan, and the whole KQED family\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong> Tomorrow, we’ll bring you the final episode of Prop Fest with Prop 36.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong> You’ve already made it this far, so make sure you stick around for that one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Subscribe to The Bay and Bay Curious so you don’t miss out. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "transcript-proposition-34-limits-how-prescription-drug-revenue-can-be-spent-by-certain-providers",
"title": "Proposition 34 Limits How Prescription Drug Revenue Can Be Spent By Certain Providers",
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"headTitle": "Proposition 34 Limits How Prescription Drug Revenue Can Be Spent By Certain Providers | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cem>Aaron Schrank and Ana De Almeida Amaral contributed to this episode.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Prop Fest\u003c/a> is a collaboration from Bay Curious and The Bay podcasts, where we break down each of the 10 statewide propositions that will be on your November 2024 ballot. Check out \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">KQED’s Voter Guide\u003c/a> for more information on state and local races.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Today, we take a closer look at Prop 34, which takes aim at how revenues earned through a federal drug pricing program are spent by a very specific number of providers. On the surface it seems like a healthcare prop, but underneath it all is a proxy war over rent control. Reporter \u003ca href=\"https://www.kcrw.com/people/aaron-schrank\">Aaron Schrank\u003c/a>, who has been covering Prop 34 for NPR member station \u003ca href=\"https://www.kcrw.com/\">KCRW\u003c/a> in Los Angeles, helps us understand what’s at stake.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC5380710933&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a transcript of the episode.\u003c/em>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Quite often there’s a prop or two on California’s ballot that seems like it’s about one thing, but it’s mostly about something else.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Meet Proposition 34. The \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">healthcare\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> prop that’s drawing big spending from \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">landlord\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> groups. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Behind it all is a proxy war over rent control, and likely how one organization is spending money made through a federal drug pricing program.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Host of The Bay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m Olivia Allen-Price, Host of Bay Curious. This is Prop Fest, our 10 part series that goes in deep on the propositions you’ll be voting on this November. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> All so you can vote smart. Today we’re getting into the weeds on what is going on in Proposition 34 – about prescription drug spending.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But also about rent control. We’ll explain why, right after this.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[SPONSOR MESSAGE]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Proposition 34 is one of the trickier measures California voters must consider this year. Here’s about how it will read on your ballot…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>VO: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Proposition 34 is a statute that restricts spending of prescription drug revenues by certain health care providers. It also authorizes statewide negotiation of Medi-Cal drug prices. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Joining me today is Reporter Aaron Schrank, who has been covering Prop 34 for NPR member station KCRW in Los Angeles. Welcome Aaron.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Shrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Happy to be here!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we get too far into the weeds on this one, broadly, what is Prop 34 aiming to do?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Well it is hard to avoid weeds on this particular proposition but broadly, Prop 34 would place new restrictions on how certain\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">healthcare providers can use the revenue they earn through a federal drug discount program. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But more to the point: the measure is aiming to limit the political spending of one particular health care provider called the AIDS Healthcare Foundation. That foundation (as listeners of the previous Propfest episode may recall) is the primary backer of another measure on this year’s ballot which would expand rent control in California.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s also another minor provision in Prop 34 that would permanently authorize a program called Medi-Cal Rx, which is already in place, and allows California to negotiate Medi-Cal drug prices on a statewide basis.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At the heart of this is how funding is used that comes from a specific federal program. It’s called the 340B Drug Pricing Program. Can you explain what that is and how it works?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. 340B is a piece of federal legislation passed in the early 90s requiring pharmaceutical drug manufacturers to give significant discounts on the price of drugs to health care providers that focus on serving low-income and at-risk patients. Those discounts can be between 25 percent and about 50 percent off the retail price of the drugs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then, if the health providers give the drugs to a patient who has insurance, those providers can bill the insurance company for reimbursement based on the full cost of the drug. This, in turn, creates a stream of revenue for these social safety net health providers, allowing them to basically make money which they can use to further their operations. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, the intention of 340B was to help these providers stretch their resources in order to serve more patients and to provide more comprehensive services to disadvantaged communities. We’re talking about things like offering free care for uninsured patients or offering free vaccines. However, Congress didn’t actually specify any of that in the law, so there is currently no legal requirement for how this 340B revenue must be used.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what are the proponents of Prop 34 looking to change about that?\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Well, they’re looking to establish a legal requirement for how that revenue can be used within the state of California –– or at least how some providers can use it. If approved, Prop 34 would require certain providers to spend 98 percent of those 340B revenues on “direct patient care.” \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s Yes on 34 spokesperson Nathan Click:\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nathan Click: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We need real transparency on 340b dollars. And we need real guardrails on this program. Fundamentally our entire message is that uh, dollars meant for patients, should be spent on patients.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The measure’s definition of “direct patient care” includes medical, dental, pharmaceutical or behavioral health services directly administered to individual patients. It also specifies that they must be health care services that are regularly provided by other health providers in the community. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Prop 34 also establishes penalties. A provider that doesn’t comply with that 98 percent rule would have their healthcare license and tax exempt status permanently revoked. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But it’s not \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">all \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">health care providers who would have to meet these new requirements, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That’s right, and that’s where this takes a bit of a turn. The law would only apply to 340B providers who meet some very specific conditions. First, they must have spent at least $100 million over a decade on purposes that do not qualify as direct patient care. Next, they must own –– or have previously owned –– one or more apartment buildings. And finally, the apartment buildings they own have to have been collectively cited for at least 500 health and safety violations.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So that narrows things down a bit. Now, I should say the backers of this proposal do claim to believe that their measure would apply to more than one health care provider, but there’s really only one entity that we can be fairly certain would be impacted by the passage of Prop 34, and that is the AIDS Healthcare Foundation. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003cb>\u003cbr>\nOlivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b> Okay, so what is the AIDS Healthcare Foundation and why are they seemingly being singled out with this Proposition?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The AIDS Healthcare Foundation, or AHF, is the largest AIDS organization in the world. It was founded in Los Angeles in 1987, initially to provide hospice care to people dying of AIDS. As treatments and life expectancy for AIDS patients improved, AHF began opening clinics and then expanded nationally and internationally over the years. Today, they serve 2 million patients across 17 states and 47 countries.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The organization has more recently also gotten into housing. Back in 2017, they launched the Healthy Housing Foundation, which purchases and renovates existing buildings, primarily here in Los Angeles, where it has about 1,400 apartment units. CEO Michael Weinstein told me he sees housing as an extension of the organization’s existing mission.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Weinstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our mission is both medicine and advocacy. And under medicine, we consider housing to be a component of that.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> He says that housing is the number one determinant of health, and that being unhoused is a huge health risk. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s worth mentioning that AHF has an annual budget of about 2.5 billion dollars. The vast majority of their revenue comes from their network of 62 pharmacies, which is largely a result of its participation in that 340B program. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, as to why they seem to be in the cross-hairs of this ballot measure. The backers of Prop 34 don’t like how AHF uses that revenue, particularly when the organization spends money on political activity. Between 2015 and 2020, AHF spent more than $110 million on ballot measure campaigns in California, including two previous attempts to expand rent control. The California Apartment Association, which is a lobbying group that represents apartment landlords, spent many millions to help defeat those two previous rent control measures. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And, again, this year, the AHF is the main sponsor of another rent control proposition – Prop 33. And the same landlord lobbying groups that have spent millions campaigning against AHF’s rent control measures are the ones sponsoring Proposition 34. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So, is Prop 34 really about housing, and not that much about health care at all?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, if you look at who is spending money to convince voters to approve this measure, it’s clear that this does have a lot to do with housing, and with the politics of housing and rent control specifically. The measure’s impact on health care is mostly limited to the question of how this one healthcare provider can spend its money. And backers of the proposition would argue that AIDS Healthcare Foundation’s spending on things like apartment buildings and rent control campaigns comes at the expense of patient care.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, the AIDS Healthcare Foundation has positioned themselves as a pro-tenant group, and a group trying to help people experiencing homelessness, but to further complicate things, they’ve been criticized for the conditions in some of their low-incoming housing facilities. Can you elaborate on that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Sure, as I mentioned, AHF has purchased several old hotels and small apartment complexes, mostly in the Skid Row area of downtown Los Angeles. There have been lots of complaints and reports of squalid conditions at those sites. The Los Angeles Times reported that the rate of code enforcement and public health complaints at AHF buildings is three times higher than those at other Skid Row nonprofits. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">AHF has also been criticized for evicting\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">tenants for unpaid rent, while simultaneously publicly advocating against evictions. Many tenants have filed lawsuits against the organization, citing substandard living conditions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, despite the controversy and criticism, CEO Michael Weinstein defends the organization’s approach to housing. He says many of the buildings AHF has purchased are a century-old and that previous owners are in some cases partly liable for their condition. He says his organization has spent millions on renovations, and he stresses that his tenants have some of the cheapest rents available in the city. The tenants I’ve spoken with were paying between $400 and $650 a month. Which is obviously well below the market average. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But that certainly all contributes to the controversy around AIDS Healthcare Foundation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hm, if Prop 34 passes, what will happen to the AIDS Healthcare Foundation, if they don’t meet the spending requirements?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ll note that it’s unclear exactly how much AHF spends on direct patient care right now, but it’s safe to say that it is certainly under that 98 percent threshold. So, if Prop 34 passes, it would likely mean that AHF would have to stop operating as a healthcare provider in California.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked CEO Michael Weinstein what would happen to his organization if voters approve Prop 34…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Weinstein:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That’s 16, 000 patients that we serve across California who would have to look for another provider and retaining people with HIV in care is extremely important both in terms of breaking the chain of infection, but also for their health. There’s tens of thousands of more patients who go to our STD services, our free STD services. Yeah, so I mean, it would be very deleterious, and it would put an extra burden on the county and state who have to care for those patients.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s also worth mentioning that, if voters do approve Prop 34, the AIDS Healthcare Foundation will still have some legal recourse to challenge the law. The organization believes that the measure is unconstitutional, based on the Constitution’s Bill of Attainder Clauses, which prohibit state legislatures from passing targeted statutes imposing punishment on specific actors without trial. So, if passed, this is almost certain to end up before a judge. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This prop also has implications for Medi-Cal drug prices. Can you walk us through that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb> Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sure, so Medi-Cal is the state’s Medicaid program; it’s a public insurance program that provides coverage to low-income Californians, including coverage for prescription drugs.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In 2019, Governor Gavin Newsom signed an executive order to save the state money on prescription drug purchases made through Medi-Cal. It did this basically by authorizing state agencies to negotiate with drug manufacturers together as a single entity for lower prices — and by requiring Medi-Cal to pay pharmacies directly for prescription drugs. This is known as the Medi-Cal Rx program. If passed, Prop 34 would enshrine that program into permanent law.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The campaign for Prop. 34 has been running a barrage of ads claiming that this particular provision would “drastically cut the costs of prescription drugs for Medi-Cal patients.” While that certainly sounds good, that claim is misleading, because again this is already happening and the measure is not proposing anything new in this regard, just more of an administrative update to keep it going. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked Yes on 34 spokesperson Nathan Click about this…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nathan Click: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The next governor, whoever that might be, could take this executive order off the books. The next governor will be able to do that with a stroke of a pen. It’s not in statute. It’s only by executive order. This would codify that executive order and make those important savings permanent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> If this prop fails, what would happen to Medi-cal Rx?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nothing. Newsom’s executive order is in place. But as Click points out, it would remain open to potentially being undone by a future governor. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Who’s supporting prop 34 and why? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The primary supporter and financial backer of Proposition 34 is the California Apartment Association, which is a lobbying group that represents corporate rental property landlords. The top donors to the campaign for prop 34 are Equity Residential, which is the fifth largest owner of apartments in the country, and Essex Property Trust, which is the 11th largest. The Yes on 34 campaign has also been endorsed by the Republican Party of California, the ALS Association, the San Francisco Women’s Cancer Network, as well State Assemblyman Evan Low, a Democrat who represents Silicon Valley. These supporters all have issues with how the AIDS Healthcare Foundation has been operating, in one domain or another. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Alright, and I can probably guess but, who opposes Prop 34 and why?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The main opposition to Prop 34, unsurprisingly, is the AIDS Healthcare Foundation. They are saying they are being targeted and that the landlord lobby is using the guise of representing patients when this is really about stifling the movement for rent control. Here’s AIDS Healthcare Foundation CEO Michael Weinstein:\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Michael Weinstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What you’ve seen this year that you’ve never seen before is, um, a moneyed interest putting an initiative on the ballot with the specific purpose of silencing and exacting revenge against their opponent. And that’s what 34 is. It seeks revenge. I mean, pure and simple. It does not pass the laugh test that the California Apartment Association is so concerned about patient care and access. I don’t know of any time they’ve ever taken any interest in that before.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Other groups opposing Prop 34 include Consumer Watchdog, the National Organization for Women, the Dolores Huerta Foundation and the League of Women Voters. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It sounds like there are, kind of, a few ways voters could approach voting on Prop 34.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. There’s a lot to consider. If you have strong feelings one way or the other about the AIDS Healthcare Foundation’s rent control measure, Prop 33, you might also vote for or against 34 based on that. Or you might vote depending on how you think that 340B money should be spent. But there is also a question of: Do you think propositions should be used in this way? Essentially weaponized in disputes between various interest groups. We’ve seen a lot of this before when labor unions and companies are hashing things out, most recently on the ballot with dialysis clinics. I think some voters will be overwhelmed and frustrated being dragged into this one, and will vote accordingly.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What does funding look like on this prop?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As of late last month, the California Apartment Association and its supporters had spent $30 million in support of Proposition 34. Meanwhile, the AIDS Healthcare Foundation had spent just over $1 million fighting it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lot’s to consider on this one. Reporter Aaron Shrank, thank you so much for walking us through it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you so much, Olivia.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In review, a vote yes on prop 34 would limit how a small number of healthcare providers – potentially only one, the AIDS Healthcare Foundation – can spend their revenues from the 340B Drug Price Discount Program. It would also permanently authorize Medi-cal Rx. A vote no means these new rules would not go into effect.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We really hope you’ve been getting what you need out of Prop Fest so far. You can find transcripts for this episode, and past ones at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/propfest\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">KQED.org/propfest\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you value the work we’re doing here, please consider donating to KQED to support it! We’re a public media station that runs on listener donations to survive, and every contribution makes a difference. Learn more at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/donate\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">KQED.org/donate\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Prop Fest is a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. It’s made by Alan Montecillo, Jessica Kariisa, Olivia Allen-Price, Amanda Font, Christopher Beale, Ana De Almeida Amaral, and me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We get extra support from Katie Sprenger, Jen Chien, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan, and the whole KQED family\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tomorrow we will get into Prop 35, which could change how we fund Medical – a lifeline for low income, disabled Californians. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Be sure you’re subscribed to The Bay and Bay Curious so you don’t miss out. We’ll see ya tomorrow.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"title": "Proposition 34 Limits How Prescription Drug Revenue Can Be Spent By Certain Providers | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>Aaron Schrank and Ana De Almeida Amaral contributed to this episode.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Prop Fest\u003c/a> is a collaboration from Bay Curious and The Bay podcasts, where we break down each of the 10 statewide propositions that will be on your November 2024 ballot. Check out \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">KQED’s Voter Guide\u003c/a> for more information on state and local races.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Today, we take a closer look at Prop 34, which takes aim at how revenues earned through a federal drug pricing program are spent by a very specific number of providers. On the surface it seems like a healthcare prop, but underneath it all is a proxy war over rent control. Reporter \u003ca href=\"https://www.kcrw.com/people/aaron-schrank\">Aaron Schrank\u003c/a>, who has been covering Prop 34 for NPR member station \u003ca href=\"https://www.kcrw.com/\">KCRW\u003c/a> in Los Angeles, helps us understand what’s at stake.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC5380710933&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a transcript of the episode.\u003c/em>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/strong>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Quite often there’s a prop or two on California’s ballot that seems like it’s about one thing, but it’s mostly about something else.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Meet Proposition 34. The \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">healthcare\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> prop that’s drawing big spending from \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">landlord\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> groups. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Behind it all is a proxy war over rent control, and likely how one organization is spending money made through a federal drug pricing program.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Host of The Bay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m Olivia Allen-Price, Host of Bay Curious. This is Prop Fest, our 10 part series that goes in deep on the propositions you’ll be voting on this November. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> All so you can vote smart. Today we’re getting into the weeds on what is going on in Proposition 34 – about prescription drug spending.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But also about rent control. We’ll explain why, right after this.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[SPONSOR MESSAGE]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Proposition 34 is one of the trickier measures California voters must consider this year. Here’s about how it will read on your ballot…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>VO: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Proposition 34 is a statute that restricts spending of prescription drug revenues by certain health care providers. It also authorizes statewide negotiation of Medi-Cal drug prices. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Joining me today is Reporter Aaron Schrank, who has been covering Prop 34 for NPR member station KCRW in Los Angeles. Welcome Aaron.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Shrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Happy to be here!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before we get too far into the weeds on this one, broadly, what is Prop 34 aiming to do?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Well it is hard to avoid weeds on this particular proposition but broadly, Prop 34 would place new restrictions on how certain\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">healthcare providers can use the revenue they earn through a federal drug discount program. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But more to the point: the measure is aiming to limit the political spending of one particular health care provider called the AIDS Healthcare Foundation. That foundation (as listeners of the previous Propfest episode may recall) is the primary backer of another measure on this year’s ballot which would expand rent control in California.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s also another minor provision in Prop 34 that would permanently authorize a program called Medi-Cal Rx, which is already in place, and allows California to negotiate Medi-Cal drug prices on a statewide basis.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At the heart of this is how funding is used that comes from a specific federal program. It’s called the 340B Drug Pricing Program. Can you explain what that is and how it works?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. 340B is a piece of federal legislation passed in the early 90s requiring pharmaceutical drug manufacturers to give significant discounts on the price of drugs to health care providers that focus on serving low-income and at-risk patients. Those discounts can be between 25 percent and about 50 percent off the retail price of the drugs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then, if the health providers give the drugs to a patient who has insurance, those providers can bill the insurance company for reimbursement based on the full cost of the drug. This, in turn, creates a stream of revenue for these social safety net health providers, allowing them to basically make money which they can use to further their operations. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, the intention of 340B was to help these providers stretch their resources in order to serve more patients and to provide more comprehensive services to disadvantaged communities. We’re talking about things like offering free care for uninsured patients or offering free vaccines. However, Congress didn’t actually specify any of that in the law, so there is currently no legal requirement for how this 340B revenue must be used.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what are the proponents of Prop 34 looking to change about that?\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Well, they’re looking to establish a legal requirement for how that revenue can be used within the state of California –– or at least how some providers can use it. If approved, Prop 34 would require certain providers to spend 98 percent of those 340B revenues on “direct patient care.” \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s Yes on 34 spokesperson Nathan Click:\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nathan Click: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We need real transparency on 340b dollars. And we need real guardrails on this program. Fundamentally our entire message is that uh, dollars meant for patients, should be spent on patients.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The measure’s definition of “direct patient care” includes medical, dental, pharmaceutical or behavioral health services directly administered to individual patients. It also specifies that they must be health care services that are regularly provided by other health providers in the community. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Prop 34 also establishes penalties. A provider that doesn’t comply with that 98 percent rule would have their healthcare license and tax exempt status permanently revoked. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But it’s not \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">all \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">health care providers who would have to meet these new requirements, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That’s right, and that’s where this takes a bit of a turn. The law would only apply to 340B providers who meet some very specific conditions. First, they must have spent at least $100 million over a decade on purposes that do not qualify as direct patient care. Next, they must own –– or have previously owned –– one or more apartment buildings. And finally, the apartment buildings they own have to have been collectively cited for at least 500 health and safety violations.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So that narrows things down a bit. Now, I should say the backers of this proposal do claim to believe that their measure would apply to more than one health care provider, but there’s really only one entity that we can be fairly certain would be impacted by the passage of Prop 34, and that is the AIDS Healthcare Foundation. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003cb>\u003cbr>\nOlivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b> Okay, so what is the AIDS Healthcare Foundation and why are they seemingly being singled out with this Proposition?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The AIDS Healthcare Foundation, or AHF, is the largest AIDS organization in the world. It was founded in Los Angeles in 1987, initially to provide hospice care to people dying of AIDS. As treatments and life expectancy for AIDS patients improved, AHF began opening clinics and then expanded nationally and internationally over the years. Today, they serve 2 million patients across 17 states and 47 countries.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The organization has more recently also gotten into housing. Back in 2017, they launched the Healthy Housing Foundation, which purchases and renovates existing buildings, primarily here in Los Angeles, where it has about 1,400 apartment units. CEO Michael Weinstein told me he sees housing as an extension of the organization’s existing mission.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Weinstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our mission is both medicine and advocacy. And under medicine, we consider housing to be a component of that.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> He says that housing is the number one determinant of health, and that being unhoused is a huge health risk. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s worth mentioning that AHF has an annual budget of about 2.5 billion dollars. The vast majority of their revenue comes from their network of 62 pharmacies, which is largely a result of its participation in that 340B program. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, as to why they seem to be in the cross-hairs of this ballot measure. The backers of Prop 34 don’t like how AHF uses that revenue, particularly when the organization spends money on political activity. Between 2015 and 2020, AHF spent more than $110 million on ballot measure campaigns in California, including two previous attempts to expand rent control. The California Apartment Association, which is a lobbying group that represents apartment landlords, spent many millions to help defeat those two previous rent control measures. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And, again, this year, the AHF is the main sponsor of another rent control proposition – Prop 33. And the same landlord lobbying groups that have spent millions campaigning against AHF’s rent control measures are the ones sponsoring Proposition 34. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So, is Prop 34 really about housing, and not that much about health care at all?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, if you look at who is spending money to convince voters to approve this measure, it’s clear that this does have a lot to do with housing, and with the politics of housing and rent control specifically. The measure’s impact on health care is mostly limited to the question of how this one healthcare provider can spend its money. And backers of the proposition would argue that AIDS Healthcare Foundation’s spending on things like apartment buildings and rent control campaigns comes at the expense of patient care.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, the AIDS Healthcare Foundation has positioned themselves as a pro-tenant group, and a group trying to help people experiencing homelessness, but to further complicate things, they’ve been criticized for the conditions in some of their low-incoming housing facilities. Can you elaborate on that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Sure, as I mentioned, AHF has purchased several old hotels and small apartment complexes, mostly in the Skid Row area of downtown Los Angeles. There have been lots of complaints and reports of squalid conditions at those sites. The Los Angeles Times reported that the rate of code enforcement and public health complaints at AHF buildings is three times higher than those at other Skid Row nonprofits. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">AHF has also been criticized for evicting\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">tenants for unpaid rent, while simultaneously publicly advocating against evictions. Many tenants have filed lawsuits against the organization, citing substandard living conditions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, despite the controversy and criticism, CEO Michael Weinstein defends the organization’s approach to housing. He says many of the buildings AHF has purchased are a century-old and that previous owners are in some cases partly liable for their condition. He says his organization has spent millions on renovations, and he stresses that his tenants have some of the cheapest rents available in the city. The tenants I’ve spoken with were paying between $400 and $650 a month. Which is obviously well below the market average. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But that certainly all contributes to the controversy around AIDS Healthcare Foundation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hm, if Prop 34 passes, what will happen to the AIDS Healthcare Foundation, if they don’t meet the spending requirements?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ll note that it’s unclear exactly how much AHF spends on direct patient care right now, but it’s safe to say that it is certainly under that 98 percent threshold. So, if Prop 34 passes, it would likely mean that AHF would have to stop operating as a healthcare provider in California.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked CEO Michael Weinstein what would happen to his organization if voters approve Prop 34…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Weinstein:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That’s 16, 000 patients that we serve across California who would have to look for another provider and retaining people with HIV in care is extremely important both in terms of breaking the chain of infection, but also for their health. There’s tens of thousands of more patients who go to our STD services, our free STD services. Yeah, so I mean, it would be very deleterious, and it would put an extra burden on the county and state who have to care for those patients.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s also worth mentioning that, if voters do approve Prop 34, the AIDS Healthcare Foundation will still have some legal recourse to challenge the law. The organization believes that the measure is unconstitutional, based on the Constitution’s Bill of Attainder Clauses, which prohibit state legislatures from passing targeted statutes imposing punishment on specific actors without trial. So, if passed, this is almost certain to end up before a judge. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This prop also has implications for Medi-Cal drug prices. Can you walk us through that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb> Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sure, so Medi-Cal is the state’s Medicaid program; it’s a public insurance program that provides coverage to low-income Californians, including coverage for prescription drugs.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In 2019, Governor Gavin Newsom signed an executive order to save the state money on prescription drug purchases made through Medi-Cal. It did this basically by authorizing state agencies to negotiate with drug manufacturers together as a single entity for lower prices — and by requiring Medi-Cal to pay pharmacies directly for prescription drugs. This is known as the Medi-Cal Rx program. If passed, Prop 34 would enshrine that program into permanent law.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The campaign for Prop. 34 has been running a barrage of ads claiming that this particular provision would “drastically cut the costs of prescription drugs for Medi-Cal patients.” While that certainly sounds good, that claim is misleading, because again this is already happening and the measure is not proposing anything new in this regard, just more of an administrative update to keep it going. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked Yes on 34 spokesperson Nathan Click about this…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nathan Click: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The next governor, whoever that might be, could take this executive order off the books. The next governor will be able to do that with a stroke of a pen. It’s not in statute. It’s only by executive order. This would codify that executive order and make those important savings permanent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> If this prop fails, what would happen to Medi-cal Rx?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nothing. Newsom’s executive order is in place. But as Click points out, it would remain open to potentially being undone by a future governor. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Who’s supporting prop 34 and why? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The primary supporter and financial backer of Proposition 34 is the California Apartment Association, which is a lobbying group that represents corporate rental property landlords. The top donors to the campaign for prop 34 are Equity Residential, which is the fifth largest owner of apartments in the country, and Essex Property Trust, which is the 11th largest. The Yes on 34 campaign has also been endorsed by the Republican Party of California, the ALS Association, the San Francisco Women’s Cancer Network, as well State Assemblyman Evan Low, a Democrat who represents Silicon Valley. These supporters all have issues with how the AIDS Healthcare Foundation has been operating, in one domain or another. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Alright, and I can probably guess but, who opposes Prop 34 and why?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The main opposition to Prop 34, unsurprisingly, is the AIDS Healthcare Foundation. They are saying they are being targeted and that the landlord lobby is using the guise of representing patients when this is really about stifling the movement for rent control. Here’s AIDS Healthcare Foundation CEO Michael Weinstein:\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Michael Weinstein: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What you’ve seen this year that you’ve never seen before is, um, a moneyed interest putting an initiative on the ballot with the specific purpose of silencing and exacting revenge against their opponent. And that’s what 34 is. It seeks revenge. I mean, pure and simple. It does not pass the laugh test that the California Apartment Association is so concerned about patient care and access. I don’t know of any time they’ve ever taken any interest in that before.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Other groups opposing Prop 34 include Consumer Watchdog, the National Organization for Women, the Dolores Huerta Foundation and the League of Women Voters. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It sounds like there are, kind of, a few ways voters could approach voting on Prop 34.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. There’s a lot to consider. If you have strong feelings one way or the other about the AIDS Healthcare Foundation’s rent control measure, Prop 33, you might also vote for or against 34 based on that. Or you might vote depending on how you think that 340B money should be spent. But there is also a question of: Do you think propositions should be used in this way? Essentially weaponized in disputes between various interest groups. We’ve seen a lot of this before when labor unions and companies are hashing things out, most recently on the ballot with dialysis clinics. I think some voters will be overwhelmed and frustrated being dragged into this one, and will vote accordingly.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What does funding look like on this prop?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As of late last month, the California Apartment Association and its supporters had spent $30 million in support of Proposition 34. Meanwhile, the AIDS Healthcare Foundation had spent just over $1 million fighting it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lot’s to consider on this one. Reporter Aaron Shrank, thank you so much for walking us through it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Aaron Schrank: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you so much, Olivia.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In review, a vote yes on prop 34 would limit how a small number of healthcare providers – potentially only one, the AIDS Healthcare Foundation – can spend their revenues from the 340B Drug Price Discount Program. It would also permanently authorize Medi-cal Rx. A vote no means these new rules would not go into effect.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We really hope you’ve been getting what you need out of Prop Fest so far. You can find transcripts for this episode, and past ones at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/propfest\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">KQED.org/propfest\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you value the work we’re doing here, please consider donating to KQED to support it! We’re a public media station that runs on listener donations to survive, and every contribution makes a difference. Learn more at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/donate\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">KQED.org/donate\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Prop Fest is a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious. It’s made by Alan Montecillo, Jessica Kariisa, Olivia Allen-Price, Amanda Font, Christopher Beale, Ana De Almeida Amaral, and me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We get extra support from Katie Sprenger, Jen Chien, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan, and the whole KQED family\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tomorrow we will get into Prop 35, which could change how we fund Medical – a lifeline for low income, disabled Californians. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Be sure you’re subscribed to The Bay and Bay Curious so you don’t miss out. We’ll see ya tomorrow.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "transcript-proposition-33-would-end-state-limits-on-rent-control",
"title": "Proposition 33 Would End State Limits on Rent Control",
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"headTitle": "Proposition 33 Would End State Limits on Rent Control | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cem>Editor’s Note: An earlier version of this podcast episode said that nothing would change immediately if Prop 33 passes. In fact, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12011500/if-proposition-33-passes-these-bay-area-cities-would-see-big-rent-control-changes\">several communities have laws that would immediately go into effect\u003c/a>. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Prop Fest\u003c/a> is a collaboration from Bay Curious and The Bay podcasts, where we break down each of the 10 statewide propositions that will be on your November 2024 ballot. Check out \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">KQED’s Voter Guide\u003c/a> for more information on state and local races.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Today, reporter Vanessa Rancaño helps us understand what’s at stake in Proposition 33, which would remove state limits on rent control that have been in place since 1995, and give power back to local governments to enact or change rent control policies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC3223859608&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a transcript of the episode.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I’ve been renting my place here in the Bay Area for 9 years and once a year, around the time when our lease terms are due for renewal. I start to get anxious about what that rent increase might look like.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">(Music)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That’s a real fear! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Renters in California pay about 50 percent more for housing than renters in other states. Which means a lot of people are spending about as much as they can afford on rent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Big rent increases price a lot of people out of their homes every year.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">One way local governments have tried to give renters a bit more stability is by enacting rent control laws. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> But caps set by the state mean they can only go so far… I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious. Today we’re moving in on Prop 33, which would give authority back to local governments to enact or change rent control laws.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> We’ve seen similar props in 2018 and 2020, and voters didn’t go for it. But polling shows the tide could be turning.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We’ll get into what exactly Prop 33 would do … plus an overview on the debate about rent control. Does it lower rents? Or have the opposite effect?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That’s all just ahead on Prop Fest. Stay tuned…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">SPONSOR BREAK\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Let’s dive deep into Proposition 33, which will read like this on your ballot. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Proposition 33 is a state statue that expands local governments’ authority to enact rent control on residential property. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This is one of the big ticket items on this year’s ballot. With tens of millions of dollars being spent on both sides. Because this one impacts people’s wallets. Here to wade through it with us is KQED housing reporter Vanessa Rancaño. Welcome, Vanessa. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Hello. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So let’s start big picture. What is Proposition 33 aiming to do? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It aims to give local governments more power to regulate rents. They do this via rent control laws. So these are policies that cap annual rent increases. At the moment, there’s a state law that sets some parameters on how far rent control Laws can go in California. But if Prop 33 passes, those limits would be removed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There is rent control already in some Bay Area cities like San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose. So cities do have some ability to enact rent control, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, they definitely do, but they can only go so far. And that’s because of this state law called the Costa-Hawkins Rental Housing Act that’s been around since 1995. And it’s sort of key to understand that before we can unpack Prop 33. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">(Music)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">All right. Well, let’s get into Costa-Hawkins, Where to begin? Walk us through it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sure. So the context for this law is that there was a swell of tenant activism in the 70s and 80s, which led to the passage of a number of local rent control laws. And at the time, people were struggling to pay rent for a bunch of reasons. We weren’t building enough, there was inflation, wages weren’t rising. And in 1978, Prop 13 passed here in California, limiting property taxes homeowners pay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Now, tenants had been promised that because landlords would be paying less in taxes, those savings were going to trickle down to them and they’d be paying less in rent. But that did not happen. Rents, in fact, rose. And tenants rights groups felt duped. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So in response to all these different factors, we saw a handful of cities pass rent control laws that limited how much a landlord could raise rent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What we see then is a backlash against that increase in tenant power. Some people blamed rent control for the housing shortage. They thought rent control scared off developers from building new apartments because they wouldn’t be able to make as high a profit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So that’s the background when in 1995 these two state lawmakers, Democratic Senator Jim Costa and Republican Assemblymember Phil Hawkins, put forward legislation to curb rent control. It passes by just one vote and shapes rent control policy across California for decades. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Now, what exactly does Costa-Hawkins do? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So it does two big things. It exempts single family homes, condos and anything built after 1995 from rent control. That’s why you see rent controlled units tend to be older. The idea there is that to encourage new construction you’ve got to exempt new apartments from rent control. For cities that had existing rent control laws in place Costa-Hawkins froze the cutoff dates for how old a unit had to be to be eligible for rent control under those laws. So, for example, in Oakland, the cutoff is 1983. Berkeley, it’s 1980. San Jose, San Francisco—nothing built after 1979 can have rent control. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The second really important thing that Costa-Hawkins does is it eliminates what’s called \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">vacancy control\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. That ties rent control to an apartment instead of to the tenant. So under Costa-Hawkins we have \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">vacancy decontrol\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. It means that if a tenant moves out of a rent controlled apartment, the landlord can raise the rent up to market rate, as high as they want. They’re only limited in terms of how much they can raise the rent a year to year after a tenant moves in. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">At this point Costa-Hawkins has been on the books in California for just shy of 30 years. Can you talk about what kind of impacts have seen?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Well, I think we can say that we see fewer people Living in rent controlled apartments than we might otherwise. We also see rent control apartments getting older. So our stock of rent controlled apartments dwindles because buildings get redeveloped. I think it’s really hard to say if limits on rent control have had any impact on development because there are just so many other factors in play. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But developers would certainly say that they like them, I would assume. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So this year we’re voting on Prop 33. What would it do exactly? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It would take us back to before Costa-Hawkins and hand the power to make decisions on rent control back to local governments. To be clear, it does not mean that suddenly rent control is going to be in every town, affecting every home or anything even close to that. But it does open the door for communities to make local rent control decisions without being limited by state law. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I feel like I’m having déja vu with this one because people have tried to overturn Costa-Hawkins before. Right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, there were two efforts, one in 2018 and one in 2020, that took aim at the law and voters shot both of those down. There are some powerful interests that really do not want to see the expansion of rent control. Landlord groups, real estate groups. They have put a lot of money into fighting these statewide initiatives and they have so far been successful. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Now, rent control is controversial even among those who want to see lower rents. Can you explain why? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. I mean, traditionally, economists have seen rent control as a really bad idea. They argue that rent caps are inefficient, that they create scarcity and drive up rents in non-regulated buildings. I came across this survey from 1992 that found over 90% of economists agreed that these policies drive down the quantity and quality of available housing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Ya know, Bay Curious actually did an explainer that covered some of those things about rent control back in 2018. So I would say if the efficacy of rent control is really important to how you vote, you might go give that a listen for some additional context. We’ll link to it in our show notes or just head online and search something like: “Bay Curious Rent Control 2018” and it should be the first thing that pops up.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yes, that is a great overview of the arguments. I think the only thing I would add is that more recently we have seen some economists come forward to argue that there is research and there are real world examples that refute this traditional narrative, which they say is based more on economic theory than empirical evidence. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Mark Paul is a Rutgers economist who studies rent control and also very much supports it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mark Paul: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Most mainstream economists are taught these theoretical models where perfect competition exists, there’s no such thing as market power, you know where landlords have more power than renters. In their models that they’re thinking about this there’s unlimited supply of affordable housing, homelessness doesn’t exist, and corporate landlords that use algorithmic pricing to jack prices up, something that we see the Federal Trade Commission going after corporate landlords for, things like that can’t exist because they would just get outcompeted. But I think people underestimate the bias most economists have against government intervention.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Hmm so it sounds like not all economists are necessarily on the same page the way they might have been at one time? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yes. So last year, a group of 32 economists wrote this letter to the Federal Housing Finance Agency lobbying for the use of rent control across the country. And what they’re arguing is that all this naysaying that we see about rent control mirrors economists’ traditional opposition to minimum wage laws. They predicted that minimum wage laws were going to lead to widespread joblessness, and we haven’t actually seen that happen. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Hm Interesting. Are there any components of rent control that folks who do study this \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">can \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">agree on?\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">(music)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So here is what I think we can safely say. There is research evidence that rent control does work to hold rents down for tenants in eligible units. But how much varies a lot across policies and studies. There is also evidence that it can have unintended consequences. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So the places where there’s agreement about what those consequences are: that it can lead to a decline in housing quality, because landlords have less incentive to maintain their properties. It can lead to a reduction in the number of rental housing units on the market because landlords convert apartments to condos. So there are studies that have found that more moderate forms of rent control can avoid some of these unintended consequences. And then the economists, those who support rent control argue that if you put in place other regulations, along with rent control, you can get around some of these consequences. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So, for instance, you can do things to try to prevent landlords from converting their apartments to condos. You can allow landlords to pass along maintenance costs to renters to sort of incentivize them to continue to maintain their properties. So things like that. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I know one critique of rent control has been it can be pretty blunt in terms of who it actually helps. Can you explain that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I will say that you know, there are many people who argue that even if you put in place the strongest, best rent control policy, it’s not necessarily going to reach the right people, right? Because it is tied to a property rather than a person. Michael Manville is a UCLA Urban planning professor who studies rent control. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Michael Manville: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If we’re serious about helping our most vulnerable tenants, that’s really going to involve some combination of making housing in general just much more plentiful, and spending money in targeted subsidies for low-income people. Because the thing is, even if you have the most powerful, strong rent control law, you could end up holding down the rent for a bunch of people who don’t necessarily need that assistance. And letting a bunch of people who do need that assistance pay a very high housing costs because they aren’t fortunate enough to be in a rent controlled unit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">All right. Walk us through who is opposing Prop 33 and why. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In general, it’s landlord and real estate interests. And what they argue is that these policies ultimately are counterproductive, that they will lead to less new construction and ultimately housing prices will just go up, that rental prices will go up. I’ve also heard from landlords that, you know, their property taxes keep going up, but they’re seeing stricter caps on how much they can raise the rent and that makes it really tough for them to maintain their properties. And many of them are just really frustrated. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Who is supporting this measure and why? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So the AIDS Healthcare Foundation and its president, Michael Weinstein is the chief proponent of not just Prop 33, but also the last two attempts to roll back Costa-Hawkins in 2018 and 2020. The California Democratic Party is also backing it. Some tenant advocacy groups. Some unions. Francisco Dueñas runs Housing Now California it’s a coalition of organizations advocating for pro renter policies. They very much support Prop 33. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francisco Dueñas: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We see that they help provide stability for tenants. That it helps prevent or protect against, you know, surprise increases in rents. And I think that’s the biggest benefit that people really look towards, is just knowing that their rents are not going to rise 100%, you know, from one month to the next when they’re lease ends.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And in general all these folks argue that the rent is just too high, that people are getting pushed out of cities. People are ending up homeless. And, you know, at the very least that we should do something to protect people from huge surprise rent increases. They point out that while we do have a state rent control law, it passed in 2019 and it limits annual increases to 10%, it’s just too high, they say. And that law sunsets in 2030 in any case. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Other arguments I’ve heard are that homeowners are benefiting from a form of price control in the form of fixed rate mortgages. And we should, you know, extend similar protections to renters. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Beyond all that, there are people who argue that we should rethink how we approach housing in this country, that we should reframe it as a fundamental human right rather than a commodity. And they see rent control as one small step in that direction.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Francisco Dueñas: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The profit motive shouldn’t be the only thing that leads the policy when it comes to housing because then, you know, everybody but the highest bidder is losing out if our housing policy is only focused on profit and, you know, outcomes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I do want to underline that support coming from the AIDS Healthcare Foundation on this prop, because that plays into what we’ll be talking about tomorrow, Proposition 34, which some have seen as a proposition built specifically to take aim at the AIDS Healthcare Foundation for their advocacy on rent control issues over the years. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Vanessa, this is one of the most expensive measures from a spending perspective that we’re seeing. Can you tell us how that’s all shaking out so far?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Oh my god. People are spending so much money on this. So to date, it’s over $40 million to support this proposition. The vast majority of that is coming from the AIDS HealthCare Foundation. In terms of opposition, they’ve raised over $65 million. The vast majority of that is coming from the California Apartment Association and the California Association of Realtors. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Woo! Spendy. Vanessa Rancaño is a housing reporter at KQED. Vanessa, thanks for breaking this down for us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Thanks for having me.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Let’s review. A vote yes on Prop 33 means you want local governments to have the power to enact or change their own rent control laws. A vote no on Prop 33 would keep state limits on rent control in place. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That’s it on Prop 33. You can find audio and transcripts of this episode, and all the others in our Prop Fest series at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/propfest\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">KQED.org/propfest\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. While you’re on the KQED website, be sure to check out our voter guide, which has lots more important information about your statewide and local elections. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Prop Fest is a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious podcasts. It’s made by…\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Alan Montecillo\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Jessica Kariisa\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>Amanda Font\u003cbr>\nChristopher Beale\u003cbr>\n\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Ana De Almeda Amaral\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We get extra support from\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Jen Chien\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Katie Sprenger\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Maha Sanad\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Holly Kernan\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And the whole KQED family\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Tomorrow we will get into Prop 34, which would limit how some healthcare providers can spend money earned through a federal drug pricing program. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It looks like a healthcare bill, but it actually has a lot to do with rent control. We’ll spill the tea on that tomorrow – but be sure you’re subscribed so you don’t miss out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Thanks for listening to Prop Fest. Peace.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"excerpt": "Reporter Vanessa Rancaño discusses what's at stake in Proposition 33, which would remove state limits on rent control that have been in place since 1995, and give power back to local governments to enact or change rent control policies.",
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"title": "Proposition 33 Would End State Limits on Rent Control | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>Editor’s Note: An earlier version of this podcast episode said that nothing would change immediately if Prop 33 passes. In fact, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12011500/if-proposition-33-passes-these-bay-area-cities-would-see-big-rent-control-changes\">several communities have laws that would immediately go into effect\u003c/a>. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Prop Fest\u003c/a> is a collaboration from Bay Curious and The Bay podcasts, where we break down each of the 10 statewide propositions that will be on your November 2024 ballot. Check out \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">KQED’s Voter Guide\u003c/a> for more information on state and local races.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Today, reporter Vanessa Rancaño helps us understand what’s at stake in Proposition 33, which would remove state limits on rent control that have been in place since 1995, and give power back to local governments to enact or change rent control policies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC3223859608&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a transcript of the episode.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I’ve been renting my place here in the Bay Area for 9 years and once a year, around the time when our lease terms are due for renewal. I start to get anxious about what that rent increase might look like.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">(Music)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That’s a real fear! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Renters in California pay about 50 percent more for housing than renters in other states. Which means a lot of people are spending about as much as they can afford on rent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Big rent increases price a lot of people out of their homes every year.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">One way local governments have tried to give renters a bit more stability is by enacting rent control laws. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> But caps set by the state mean they can only go so far… I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, host of The Bay\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And I’m Olivia Allen-Price, host of Bay Curious. Today we’re moving in on Prop 33, which would give authority back to local governments to enact or change rent control laws.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> We’ve seen similar props in 2018 and 2020, and voters didn’t go for it. But polling shows the tide could be turning.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We’ll get into what exactly Prop 33 would do … plus an overview on the debate about rent control. Does it lower rents? Or have the opposite effect?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That’s all just ahead on Prop Fest. Stay tuned…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">SPONSOR BREAK\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Let’s dive deep into Proposition 33, which will read like this on your ballot. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Amanda Font: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Proposition 33 is a state statue that expands local governments’ authority to enact rent control on residential property. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This is one of the big ticket items on this year’s ballot. With tens of millions of dollars being spent on both sides. Because this one impacts people’s wallets. Here to wade through it with us is KQED housing reporter Vanessa Rancaño. Welcome, Vanessa. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Hello. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So let’s start big picture. What is Proposition 33 aiming to do? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It aims to give local governments more power to regulate rents. They do this via rent control laws. So these are policies that cap annual rent increases. At the moment, there’s a state law that sets some parameters on how far rent control Laws can go in California. But if Prop 33 passes, those limits would be removed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There is rent control already in some Bay Area cities like San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose. So cities do have some ability to enact rent control, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, they definitely do, but they can only go so far. And that’s because of this state law called the Costa-Hawkins Rental Housing Act that’s been around since 1995. And it’s sort of key to understand that before we can unpack Prop 33. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">(Music)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">All right. Well, let’s get into Costa-Hawkins, Where to begin? Walk us through it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sure. So the context for this law is that there was a swell of tenant activism in the 70s and 80s, which led to the passage of a number of local rent control laws. And at the time, people were struggling to pay rent for a bunch of reasons. We weren’t building enough, there was inflation, wages weren’t rising. And in 1978, Prop 13 passed here in California, limiting property taxes homeowners pay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Now, tenants had been promised that because landlords would be paying less in taxes, those savings were going to trickle down to them and they’d be paying less in rent. But that did not happen. Rents, in fact, rose. And tenants rights groups felt duped. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So in response to all these different factors, we saw a handful of cities pass rent control laws that limited how much a landlord could raise rent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What we see then is a backlash against that increase in tenant power. Some people blamed rent control for the housing shortage. They thought rent control scared off developers from building new apartments because they wouldn’t be able to make as high a profit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So that’s the background when in 1995 these two state lawmakers, Democratic Senator Jim Costa and Republican Assemblymember Phil Hawkins, put forward legislation to curb rent control. It passes by just one vote and shapes rent control policy across California for decades. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Now, what exactly does Costa-Hawkins do? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So it does two big things. It exempts single family homes, condos and anything built after 1995 from rent control. That’s why you see rent controlled units tend to be older. The idea there is that to encourage new construction you’ve got to exempt new apartments from rent control. For cities that had existing rent control laws in place Costa-Hawkins froze the cutoff dates for how old a unit had to be to be eligible for rent control under those laws. So, for example, in Oakland, the cutoff is 1983. Berkeley, it’s 1980. San Jose, San Francisco—nothing built after 1979 can have rent control. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The second really important thing that Costa-Hawkins does is it eliminates what’s called \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">vacancy control\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. That ties rent control to an apartment instead of to the tenant. So under Costa-Hawkins we have \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">vacancy decontrol\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. It means that if a tenant moves out of a rent controlled apartment, the landlord can raise the rent up to market rate, as high as they want. They’re only limited in terms of how much they can raise the rent a year to year after a tenant moves in. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">At this point Costa-Hawkins has been on the books in California for just shy of 30 years. Can you talk about what kind of impacts have seen?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Well, I think we can say that we see fewer people Living in rent controlled apartments than we might otherwise. We also see rent control apartments getting older. So our stock of rent controlled apartments dwindles because buildings get redeveloped. I think it’s really hard to say if limits on rent control have had any impact on development because there are just so many other factors in play. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But developers would certainly say that they like them, I would assume. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So this year we’re voting on Prop 33. What would it do exactly? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It would take us back to before Costa-Hawkins and hand the power to make decisions on rent control back to local governments. To be clear, it does not mean that suddenly rent control is going to be in every town, affecting every home or anything even close to that. But it does open the door for communities to make local rent control decisions without being limited by state law. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I feel like I’m having déja vu with this one because people have tried to overturn Costa-Hawkins before. Right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, there were two efforts, one in 2018 and one in 2020, that took aim at the law and voters shot both of those down. There are some powerful interests that really do not want to see the expansion of rent control. Landlord groups, real estate groups. They have put a lot of money into fighting these statewide initiatives and they have so far been successful. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Now, rent control is controversial even among those who want to see lower rents. Can you explain why? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. I mean, traditionally, economists have seen rent control as a really bad idea. They argue that rent caps are inefficient, that they create scarcity and drive up rents in non-regulated buildings. I came across this survey from 1992 that found over 90% of economists agreed that these policies drive down the quantity and quality of available housing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Ya know, Bay Curious actually did an explainer that covered some of those things about rent control back in 2018. So I would say if the efficacy of rent control is really important to how you vote, you might go give that a listen for some additional context. We’ll link to it in our show notes or just head online and search something like: “Bay Curious Rent Control 2018” and it should be the first thing that pops up.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yes, that is a great overview of the arguments. I think the only thing I would add is that more recently we have seen some economists come forward to argue that there is research and there are real world examples that refute this traditional narrative, which they say is based more on economic theory than empirical evidence. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Mark Paul is a Rutgers economist who studies rent control and also very much supports it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mark Paul: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Most mainstream economists are taught these theoretical models where perfect competition exists, there’s no such thing as market power, you know where landlords have more power than renters. In their models that they’re thinking about this there’s unlimited supply of affordable housing, homelessness doesn’t exist, and corporate landlords that use algorithmic pricing to jack prices up, something that we see the Federal Trade Commission going after corporate landlords for, things like that can’t exist because they would just get outcompeted. But I think people underestimate the bias most economists have against government intervention.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Hmm so it sounds like not all economists are necessarily on the same page the way they might have been at one time? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yes. So last year, a group of 32 economists wrote this letter to the Federal Housing Finance Agency lobbying for the use of rent control across the country. And what they’re arguing is that all this naysaying that we see about rent control mirrors economists’ traditional opposition to minimum wage laws. They predicted that minimum wage laws were going to lead to widespread joblessness, and we haven’t actually seen that happen. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Hm Interesting. Are there any components of rent control that folks who do study this \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">can \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">agree on?\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">(music)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So here is what I think we can safely say. There is research evidence that rent control does work to hold rents down for tenants in eligible units. But how much varies a lot across policies and studies. There is also evidence that it can have unintended consequences. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So the places where there’s agreement about what those consequences are: that it can lead to a decline in housing quality, because landlords have less incentive to maintain their properties. It can lead to a reduction in the number of rental housing units on the market because landlords convert apartments to condos. So there are studies that have found that more moderate forms of rent control can avoid some of these unintended consequences. And then the economists, those who support rent control argue that if you put in place other regulations, along with rent control, you can get around some of these consequences. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So, for instance, you can do things to try to prevent landlords from converting their apartments to condos. You can allow landlords to pass along maintenance costs to renters to sort of incentivize them to continue to maintain their properties. So things like that. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I know one critique of rent control has been it can be pretty blunt in terms of who it actually helps. Can you explain that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I will say that you know, there are many people who argue that even if you put in place the strongest, best rent control policy, it’s not necessarily going to reach the right people, right? Because it is tied to a property rather than a person. Michael Manville is a UCLA Urban planning professor who studies rent control. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Michael Manville: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If we’re serious about helping our most vulnerable tenants, that’s really going to involve some combination of making housing in general just much more plentiful, and spending money in targeted subsidies for low-income people. Because the thing is, even if you have the most powerful, strong rent control law, you could end up holding down the rent for a bunch of people who don’t necessarily need that assistance. And letting a bunch of people who do need that assistance pay a very high housing costs because they aren’t fortunate enough to be in a rent controlled unit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">All right. Walk us through who is opposing Prop 33 and why. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In general, it’s landlord and real estate interests. And what they argue is that these policies ultimately are counterproductive, that they will lead to less new construction and ultimately housing prices will just go up, that rental prices will go up. I’ve also heard from landlords that, you know, their property taxes keep going up, but they’re seeing stricter caps on how much they can raise the rent and that makes it really tough for them to maintain their properties. And many of them are just really frustrated. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Who is supporting this measure and why? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So the AIDS Healthcare Foundation and its president, Michael Weinstein is the chief proponent of not just Prop 33, but also the last two attempts to roll back Costa-Hawkins in 2018 and 2020. The California Democratic Party is also backing it. Some tenant advocacy groups. Some unions. Francisco Dueñas runs Housing Now California it’s a coalition of organizations advocating for pro renter policies. They very much support Prop 33. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francisco Dueñas: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We see that they help provide stability for tenants. That it helps prevent or protect against, you know, surprise increases in rents. And I think that’s the biggest benefit that people really look towards, is just knowing that their rents are not going to rise 100%, you know, from one month to the next when they’re lease ends.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And in general all these folks argue that the rent is just too high, that people are getting pushed out of cities. People are ending up homeless. And, you know, at the very least that we should do something to protect people from huge surprise rent increases. They point out that while we do have a state rent control law, it passed in 2019 and it limits annual increases to 10%, it’s just too high, they say. And that law sunsets in 2030 in any case. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Other arguments I’ve heard are that homeowners are benefiting from a form of price control in the form of fixed rate mortgages. And we should, you know, extend similar protections to renters. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Beyond all that, there are people who argue that we should rethink how we approach housing in this country, that we should reframe it as a fundamental human right rather than a commodity. And they see rent control as one small step in that direction.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Francisco Dueñas: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The profit motive shouldn’t be the only thing that leads the policy when it comes to housing because then, you know, everybody but the highest bidder is losing out if our housing policy is only focused on profit and, you know, outcomes.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I do want to underline that support coming from the AIDS Healthcare Foundation on this prop, because that plays into what we’ll be talking about tomorrow, Proposition 34, which some have seen as a proposition built specifically to take aim at the AIDS Healthcare Foundation for their advocacy on rent control issues over the years. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Vanessa, this is one of the most expensive measures from a spending perspective that we’re seeing. Can you tell us how that’s all shaking out so far?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Oh my god. People are spending so much money on this. So to date, it’s over $40 million to support this proposition. The vast majority of that is coming from the AIDS HealthCare Foundation. In terms of opposition, they’ve raised over $65 million. The vast majority of that is coming from the California Apartment Association and the California Association of Realtors. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Woo! Spendy. Vanessa Rancaño is a housing reporter at KQED. Vanessa, thanks for breaking this down for us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vanessa Rancaño: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Thanks for having me.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Let’s review. A vote yes on Prop 33 means you want local governments to have the power to enact or change their own rent control laws. A vote no on Prop 33 would keep state limits on rent control in place. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">That’s it on Prop 33. You can find audio and transcripts of this episode, and all the others in our Prop Fest series at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://kqed.org/propfest\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">KQED.org/propfest\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. While you’re on the KQED website, be sure to check out our voter guide, which has lots more important information about your statewide and local elections. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Prop Fest is a collaboration between The Bay and Bay Curious podcasts. It’s made by…\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Alan Montecillo\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Jessica Kariisa\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>Amanda Font\u003cbr>\nChristopher Beale\u003cbr>\n\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Ana De Almeda Amaral\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And me, Ericka Cruz Guevarra\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We get extra support from\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Jen Chien\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Katie Sprenger\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Maha Sanad\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Holly Kernan\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And the whole KQED family\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Tomorrow we will get into Prop 34, which would limit how some healthcare providers can spend money earned through a federal drug pricing program. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It looks like a healthcare bill, but it actually has a lot to do with rent control. We’ll spill the tea on that tomorrow – but be sure you’re subscribed so you don’t miss out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Thanks for listening to Prop Fest. Peace.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "Proposition 32 Raises the Minimum Wage to $18 an Hour",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Prop Fest\u003c/a> is a collaboration from Bay Curious and The Bay podcasts, where we break down each of the 10 statewide propositions that will be on your November 2024 ballot. Check out \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">KQED’s Voter Guide\u003c/a> for more information on state and local races.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Today, KQED labor correspondent Farida Jhabvala Romero breaks down Prop. 32, which would raise the statewide minimum wage to $18 an hour.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC1869781659&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a transcript of the episode.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:03] So I was at the grocery store the other day, and I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw that the jar of mayo that I needed to get was….wait for it…$9.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:17] You are not imagining it. Food prices, among other things, are getting more expensive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:22] And as you know, California is already an expensive state to live in. So when you add up rent, gas, and groceries, things get real, real fast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:35] Prop 32 proposes one way to help Californians keep up with the rising cost of everyday life by raising the state’s minimum wage to $18 an hour.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:47] But some worry doing this will only make things more expensive than they already are. And when it comes to fights about the minimum wage, we’ve heard that argument before. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:01:02] And I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Welcome to Prop Fest, a collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curious where we help you get smart on all the statewide propositions on your ballot this November.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:13] The push for livable wages in California is not new, and it’s usually driven by workers and labor unions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:01:22] But the effort to get prop 32 on the ballot has a much more unusual beginning. We’ll get into that and more on prop 32 right after this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:39] Today we’re diving deep into prop 32. The minimum wage increase. Here’s how it’ll look on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Voiceover \u003c/strong>[00:01:48] Prop 32 raises minimum wage as follows. For employers with 26 or more employees to $17 immediately $18 on January 1st, 2025 for employers with 25 or fewer employees to $17 on January 1st, 2025. $18 on January 1st, 2026.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:12] Today, we hit up KQED labor correspondent for Farida Jhabvala Romero to help us understand what prop 32 is all about.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:22] Farida, California, I feel like, is no stranger to fights around raising the minimum wage. We’ve kind of seen these debates before, but remind us what exactly those debates have look like over the years and where we stand right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:02:38] Well, we know that over the last decade, the state’s minimum wage has doubled from $8 an hour to 16, which is what we have now. The last big jump came through a bill approved by the legislature and signed by then governor Jerry Brown in 2016. Another thing is that we’ve passed state laws that increase the minimum wage for some industries, like fast food. So now half a million fast food workers in the state are making at least $20 an hour since April. Dozens of local cities and counties have also passed their own higher minimum wage. In L.A., it’s $17.28. In San Francisco, it’s more than $18 an hour. And then in Emeryville, here in the Bay area, it has one of the highest wage floors in the country, actually, at $19.36 an hour.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:41] So, I mean, Farida, we know that a lot of folks have pushed to raise the minimum wage in California. Like unions in particular, many Democratic lawmakers, the governor as well. But how did prop 32 get on the ballot? Did it come from the same groups who’ve been pushing for this in the past?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:04:03] Well, prop 32 has a sort of unusual story because the main financial backer for it is a guy called Joe Sanberg, who grew up in Orange County.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Sanberg \u003c/strong>[00:04:15] When you raise wages for your workers, they do better for your company. They have more money to spend in their communities, which creates more economic prosperity for local communities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:04:25] He’s an investor and also an anti-poverty advocate. He spent more than $10 million of his own money to help this measure qualify for the ballot. He says he’s not making any money out of this ad, that he wants to use his resources to help fellow Californians because of his own experience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Sanberg \u003c/strong>[00:04:44] I grew up in working class family. My mom raised me by herself. We lost our home to foreclosure when I was a teenager. I saw firsthand how hard it is for a single mom to raise kids in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:04:56] The main supporters intended to qualify for the ballot in 2022, but they missed a key deadline, and so it was basically delayed for voters to this election in November.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:05:10] Can you break down just a little bit more exactly for you to what proposition 32 would do? Because as you said, the the statewide minimum wage is $16 an hour, but it’s also higher in some cities in certain industries. So what kind of change would prop 32 make exactly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:05:29] Yeah. So prop 32 would not impact the higher minimum wages set by cities, counties or the industry specific, minimum wages that the state has approved for fast food or the health care industry. What it would do is it would raise the minimum wage to at least $18 an hour. By 2026, bigger businesses with more than 25 employees would have to do it faster by 2025, and that employers with 25 or fewer workers would start paying $17 an hour next year, and then 18 in 2026. And then from then on, the minimum wage would adjust annually tied to inflation. So those are smaller increases that are expected. And then it’s important to note that the minimum wage in the state is already set to keep going up. And without this proposition passing, it will likely be around $17 an hour in 2026, according to the Legislative Analyst’s Office. The backers of prop 32 estimate that around 2 million people would directly benefit from the race, especially outside big metro areas. You know, like outside the San Francisco Bay area around L.A., San Diego. And we’re talking about the lowest paid workers in the state. So those are often cashiers, retail salespeople, farm workers, home health and personal personal care aides and other workers. The workers that we’re talking about live mostly in the Central Valley and other rural areas of the state, in the northern part of the state. And that’s actually something that proponents point out is that these are workers that are also often not unionized. So they, you know, they really need this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:07:30] And Farida, who is lining up behind prop 32 and really coming out in support of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:07:37] So supporters include some some unions. One of them is Unite Here local 11. They represent thousands of workers in hotels, sports arenas, restaurants. Then there’s the Service Employees International Union, which has many large unions in California, and they’ve endorsed prop 32. You know, they represent people who would definitely benefit from this. And then the other big supporter is One Fair Wage, which is a group that advocates for employers to pay a living wage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Saru Jayaraman \u003c/strong>[00:08:09] I know so many workers who work in restaurants in San Francisco and live in Tracy in Stockton, and they go home once a week. They live in their cars during the week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:08:17] Saru Jayaraman directs One Fair Wage. I mean, they make the basic argument that this is a critical time, because we already know that $16 an hour is not enough to afford the basics in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Saru Jayaraman \u003c/strong>[00:08:36] I think the initiative Is critical because the legislature this time has not acted the way it should have. It should have passed a higher minimum wage already.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:08:45] And so they see this proposition as a critical first step. She feels like there hasn’t been more mobilization, you know, and noise from unions, on this in part because many of the workers who directly benefit are not unionized.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Saru Jayaraman \u003c/strong>[00:09:03] The overwhelming majority of minimum wage workers rely on the legislature to give them a raise. And when they don’t get it to the legislature, the only mechanism they then have is at the ballot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:09:15] But, you know, other proponents like Joe Sanberg, the main financial backer for prop 32, also told me that it would have been impossible to qualify the measure for the ballot without union volunteers and without union support. Now that we just have weeks before the election, the coalition of proponents will be more active.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:42] And who’s coming out on the no side on this, Frida. And what’s the argument there?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:09:48] Opponents are mostly business groups. We’re talking about the California Restaurant Association, the California Chamber of Commerce. Some of the arguments against prop 32 are very similar to those against the fast food minimum wage I was telling you about when that was being considered. And it’s basically that, you know, employers will need to cut work hours and jobs or raise prices to be able to afford the higher payroll costs. And they say it’s bad timing also because Californians are already, reeling from a super high cost of living.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ron Fong \u003c/strong>[00:10:32] $2 doesn’t sound like a lot, but when you factor that over thousands of employees, it gets to be a big amount.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:10:39] I spoke with Ron Fong, who’s president and CEO of the California Grocers Association. They represent large chains like Whole Foods and Costco and then a lot smaller, you know, grocery retailers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ron Fong \u003c/strong>[00:10:52] Especially for grocery stores. Grocery stores operate on a very low, net margin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:10:58] And he says this proposition will likely make these businesses increase prices because it would affect their bottom line.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ron Fong \u003c/strong>[00:11:06] The only way we can recapture that is by raising prices. And, you know, that’s been proven time and time again is the number one concern amongst, you know, U.S. citizens.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:18] And, I mean, we’ve heard that argument before, right, Farida? I mean, it’s a it’s a pretty common one when it comes to debates around, raising wages for workers. But what do we actually know about. that and whether or not it’s it’s true — and that actually does happen when wages for workers are increased.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:11:41] So I spoke with a couple of economists who do research on minimum wage and follow these debates. They told me that minimum wage increases to the levels that we’ve had so far, you know, which are gradual, relatively small increases. They don’t really have a big impact on jobs. So they’re not the big job killers that, business groups, sometimes, you know, fear. Also, they have a very small impact on prices. You know, one of the impacts might be that the prices end up going, higher, but it’s a relatively small increase as well. California, you know, is the first state to implement a minimum wage for fast food workers of $20 an hour. And so that’s been in effect since April. So we’ve had a couple of months of some data on jobs. You know, a lot of people have a lot of complaints, you know, a lot of business owners saying that they’ve had to work, cut work hours, or cut jobs in and raise some prices. But if you look at the overall data and talk to economists, they’ll tell you, that they haven’t seen a huge impact yet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:12:55] Let’s talk about the money being spent on the yes and no sides here. Frida. Has there been much campaign spending on either side of this proposition?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:13:06] So most of the campaign spending was done to qualify the measure for the ballot. And so that was, you know, before because like I was telling you, there were aiming to put that in the 2022 election ballot. There’s the Working Hero Action for the Living Wage Act, which has reported contributions of almost $11 million, and that’s, backed mostly by Joe Sanberg. Then there’s the Kevin De Leon believing in a better California ballot measure committee, and they’ve, reported contributions of almost $600,000. And then in the opposition side, there’s Californians Against Job Losses and Higher Prices. No, on prop 32. They, have reported contributions of $65,000. I spoke with Joe Sanberg recently and he said there’s going to be a lot more movement now, especially to try to convince younger voters who are more likely to support this proposition. There was a recent Public Policy Institute of California survey that showed likely voters were really divided on prop 32, with just 50% saying they would support it. But their biggest levels of support came among renters and then people making less than $40,000 a year, and also younger voters. Joe Sandberg believes that, you know, with Vice President Kamala Harris entering the race for the white House, that that will attract a lot more voters to the ballot box. And, they will support this proposition. But we’ll we’ll see.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:14:59] Well, for you to thank you so much for breaking this down for us. I really appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:15:02] Thank you. Ericka.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:15:08] In summary, a vote yes on prop 32 would raise the state minimum wage floor to $18 an hour in 2026. After that, it would go up each year based on how fast prices are rising. A vote no means the state minimum wage would likely be at $17 an hour in 2026, and would go up based on prices after that. And that’s it for proposition 32. If this episode helped you out, do me a favor and tell just one friend about Prop Fest because good friends help their friends vote smart. Just send them to kqed.org/prop fest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:15:59] Prop Fest is a collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curious Podcasts. It’s produced by Alan Montecillo, Jessica Kariisa, Ericka Cruz Guevara, Amanda Font, Christopher Beale, Ana de Almeida Amaral and me, Olivia Ellen Price.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:16:14] We get extra support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:16:20] Our show is made in San Francisco at member supported KQED. If you value podcasts like this one, please consider becoming a sustaining member of KQED. Learn more at KQED.org/Donate. I’m Olivia Allen-Price.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:16:34] I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara. We’ll be back tomorrow with an explainer on proposition 33, which asks, Should California remove statewide rent control limits?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:16:46] We’ll talk to you then.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Prop Fest\u003c/a> is a collaboration from Bay Curious and The Bay podcasts, where we break down each of the 10 statewide propositions that will be on your November 2024 ballot. Check out \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">KQED’s Voter Guide\u003c/a> for more information on state and local races.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Today, KQED labor correspondent Farida Jhabvala Romero breaks down Prop. 32, which would raise the statewide minimum wage to $18 an hour.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC1869781659&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a transcript of the episode.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:03] So I was at the grocery store the other day, and I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw that the jar of mayo that I needed to get was….wait for it…$9.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:17] You are not imagining it. Food prices, among other things, are getting more expensive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:22] And as you know, California is already an expensive state to live in. So when you add up rent, gas, and groceries, things get real, real fast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:35] Prop 32 proposes one way to help Californians keep up with the rising cost of everyday life by raising the state’s minimum wage to $18 an hour.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:47] But some worry doing this will only make things more expensive than they already are. And when it comes to fights about the minimum wage, we’ve heard that argument before. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:01:02] And I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Welcome to Prop Fest, a collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curious where we help you get smart on all the statewide propositions on your ballot this November.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:13] The push for livable wages in California is not new, and it’s usually driven by workers and labor unions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:01:22] But the effort to get prop 32 on the ballot has a much more unusual beginning. We’ll get into that and more on prop 32 right after this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:39] Today we’re diving deep into prop 32. The minimum wage increase. Here’s how it’ll look on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Voiceover \u003c/strong>[00:01:48] Prop 32 raises minimum wage as follows. For employers with 26 or more employees to $17 immediately $18 on January 1st, 2025 for employers with 25 or fewer employees to $17 on January 1st, 2025. $18 on January 1st, 2026.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:12] Today, we hit up KQED labor correspondent for Farida Jhabvala Romero to help us understand what prop 32 is all about.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:22] Farida, California, I feel like, is no stranger to fights around raising the minimum wage. We’ve kind of seen these debates before, but remind us what exactly those debates have look like over the years and where we stand right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:02:38] Well, we know that over the last decade, the state’s minimum wage has doubled from $8 an hour to 16, which is what we have now. The last big jump came through a bill approved by the legislature and signed by then governor Jerry Brown in 2016. Another thing is that we’ve passed state laws that increase the minimum wage for some industries, like fast food. So now half a million fast food workers in the state are making at least $20 an hour since April. Dozens of local cities and counties have also passed their own higher minimum wage. In L.A., it’s $17.28. In San Francisco, it’s more than $18 an hour. And then in Emeryville, here in the Bay area, it has one of the highest wage floors in the country, actually, at $19.36 an hour.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:41] So, I mean, Farida, we know that a lot of folks have pushed to raise the minimum wage in California. Like unions in particular, many Democratic lawmakers, the governor as well. But how did prop 32 get on the ballot? Did it come from the same groups who’ve been pushing for this in the past?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:04:03] Well, prop 32 has a sort of unusual story because the main financial backer for it is a guy called Joe Sanberg, who grew up in Orange County.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Sanberg \u003c/strong>[00:04:15] When you raise wages for your workers, they do better for your company. They have more money to spend in their communities, which creates more economic prosperity for local communities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:04:25] He’s an investor and also an anti-poverty advocate. He spent more than $10 million of his own money to help this measure qualify for the ballot. He says he’s not making any money out of this ad, that he wants to use his resources to help fellow Californians because of his own experience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Sanberg \u003c/strong>[00:04:44] I grew up in working class family. My mom raised me by herself. We lost our home to foreclosure when I was a teenager. I saw firsthand how hard it is for a single mom to raise kids in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:04:56] The main supporters intended to qualify for the ballot in 2022, but they missed a key deadline, and so it was basically delayed for voters to this election in November.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:05:10] Can you break down just a little bit more exactly for you to what proposition 32 would do? Because as you said, the the statewide minimum wage is $16 an hour, but it’s also higher in some cities in certain industries. So what kind of change would prop 32 make exactly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:05:29] Yeah. So prop 32 would not impact the higher minimum wages set by cities, counties or the industry specific, minimum wages that the state has approved for fast food or the health care industry. What it would do is it would raise the minimum wage to at least $18 an hour. By 2026, bigger businesses with more than 25 employees would have to do it faster by 2025, and that employers with 25 or fewer workers would start paying $17 an hour next year, and then 18 in 2026. And then from then on, the minimum wage would adjust annually tied to inflation. So those are smaller increases that are expected. And then it’s important to note that the minimum wage in the state is already set to keep going up. And without this proposition passing, it will likely be around $17 an hour in 2026, according to the Legislative Analyst’s Office. The backers of prop 32 estimate that around 2 million people would directly benefit from the race, especially outside big metro areas. You know, like outside the San Francisco Bay area around L.A., San Diego. And we’re talking about the lowest paid workers in the state. So those are often cashiers, retail salespeople, farm workers, home health and personal personal care aides and other workers. The workers that we’re talking about live mostly in the Central Valley and other rural areas of the state, in the northern part of the state. And that’s actually something that proponents point out is that these are workers that are also often not unionized. So they, you know, they really need this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:07:30] And Farida, who is lining up behind prop 32 and really coming out in support of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:07:37] So supporters include some some unions. One of them is Unite Here local 11. They represent thousands of workers in hotels, sports arenas, restaurants. Then there’s the Service Employees International Union, which has many large unions in California, and they’ve endorsed prop 32. You know, they represent people who would definitely benefit from this. And then the other big supporter is One Fair Wage, which is a group that advocates for employers to pay a living wage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Saru Jayaraman \u003c/strong>[00:08:09] I know so many workers who work in restaurants in San Francisco and live in Tracy in Stockton, and they go home once a week. They live in their cars during the week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:08:17] Saru Jayaraman directs One Fair Wage. I mean, they make the basic argument that this is a critical time, because we already know that $16 an hour is not enough to afford the basics in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Saru Jayaraman \u003c/strong>[00:08:36] I think the initiative Is critical because the legislature this time has not acted the way it should have. It should have passed a higher minimum wage already.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:08:45] And so they see this proposition as a critical first step. She feels like there hasn’t been more mobilization, you know, and noise from unions, on this in part because many of the workers who directly benefit are not unionized.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Saru Jayaraman \u003c/strong>[00:09:03] The overwhelming majority of minimum wage workers rely on the legislature to give them a raise. And when they don’t get it to the legislature, the only mechanism they then have is at the ballot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:09:15] But, you know, other proponents like Joe Sanberg, the main financial backer for prop 32, also told me that it would have been impossible to qualify the measure for the ballot without union volunteers and without union support. Now that we just have weeks before the election, the coalition of proponents will be more active.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:42] And who’s coming out on the no side on this, Frida. And what’s the argument there?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:09:48] Opponents are mostly business groups. We’re talking about the California Restaurant Association, the California Chamber of Commerce. Some of the arguments against prop 32 are very similar to those against the fast food minimum wage I was telling you about when that was being considered. And it’s basically that, you know, employers will need to cut work hours and jobs or raise prices to be able to afford the higher payroll costs. And they say it’s bad timing also because Californians are already, reeling from a super high cost of living.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ron Fong \u003c/strong>[00:10:32] $2 doesn’t sound like a lot, but when you factor that over thousands of employees, it gets to be a big amount.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:10:39] I spoke with Ron Fong, who’s president and CEO of the California Grocers Association. They represent large chains like Whole Foods and Costco and then a lot smaller, you know, grocery retailers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ron Fong \u003c/strong>[00:10:52] Especially for grocery stores. Grocery stores operate on a very low, net margin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:10:58] And he says this proposition will likely make these businesses increase prices because it would affect their bottom line.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ron Fong \u003c/strong>[00:11:06] The only way we can recapture that is by raising prices. And, you know, that’s been proven time and time again is the number one concern amongst, you know, U.S. citizens.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:18] And, I mean, we’ve heard that argument before, right, Farida? I mean, it’s a it’s a pretty common one when it comes to debates around, raising wages for workers. But what do we actually know about. that and whether or not it’s it’s true — and that actually does happen when wages for workers are increased.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:11:41] So I spoke with a couple of economists who do research on minimum wage and follow these debates. They told me that minimum wage increases to the levels that we’ve had so far, you know, which are gradual, relatively small increases. They don’t really have a big impact on jobs. So they’re not the big job killers that, business groups, sometimes, you know, fear. Also, they have a very small impact on prices. You know, one of the impacts might be that the prices end up going, higher, but it’s a relatively small increase as well. California, you know, is the first state to implement a minimum wage for fast food workers of $20 an hour. And so that’s been in effect since April. So we’ve had a couple of months of some data on jobs. You know, a lot of people have a lot of complaints, you know, a lot of business owners saying that they’ve had to work, cut work hours, or cut jobs in and raise some prices. But if you look at the overall data and talk to economists, they’ll tell you, that they haven’t seen a huge impact yet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:12:55] Let’s talk about the money being spent on the yes and no sides here. Frida. Has there been much campaign spending on either side of this proposition?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:13:06] So most of the campaign spending was done to qualify the measure for the ballot. And so that was, you know, before because like I was telling you, there were aiming to put that in the 2022 election ballot. There’s the Working Hero Action for the Living Wage Act, which has reported contributions of almost $11 million, and that’s, backed mostly by Joe Sanberg. Then there’s the Kevin De Leon believing in a better California ballot measure committee, and they’ve, reported contributions of almost $600,000. And then in the opposition side, there’s Californians Against Job Losses and Higher Prices. No, on prop 32. They, have reported contributions of $65,000. I spoke with Joe Sanberg recently and he said there’s going to be a lot more movement now, especially to try to convince younger voters who are more likely to support this proposition. There was a recent Public Policy Institute of California survey that showed likely voters were really divided on prop 32, with just 50% saying they would support it. But their biggest levels of support came among renters and then people making less than $40,000 a year, and also younger voters. Joe Sandberg believes that, you know, with Vice President Kamala Harris entering the race for the white House, that that will attract a lot more voters to the ballot box. And, they will support this proposition. But we’ll we’ll see.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:14:59] Well, for you to thank you so much for breaking this down for us. I really appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero \u003c/strong>[00:15:02] Thank you. Ericka.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:15:08] In summary, a vote yes on prop 32 would raise the state minimum wage floor to $18 an hour in 2026. After that, it would go up each year based on how fast prices are rising. A vote no means the state minimum wage would likely be at $17 an hour in 2026, and would go up based on prices after that. And that’s it for proposition 32. If this episode helped you out, do me a favor and tell just one friend about Prop Fest because good friends help their friends vote smart. Just send them to kqed.org/prop fest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:15:59] Prop Fest is a collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curious Podcasts. It’s produced by Alan Montecillo, Jessica Kariisa, Ericka Cruz Guevara, Amanda Font, Christopher Beale, Ana de Almeida Amaral and me, Olivia Ellen Price.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:16:14] We get extra support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:16:20] Our show is made in San Francisco at member supported KQED. If you value podcasts like this one, please consider becoming a sustaining member of KQED. Learn more at KQED.org/Donate. I’m Olivia Allen-Price.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:16:34] I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara. We’ll be back tomorrow with an explainer on proposition 33, which asks, Should California remove statewide rent control limits?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Prop Fest\u003c/a> is a collaboration from Bay Curious and The Bay podcasts, where we break down each of the 10 statewide propositions that will be on your November 2024 ballot. Check out \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">KQED’s Voter Guide\u003c/a> for more information on state and local races.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Today, arts and culture columnist Pendarvis Harshaw joins us to break down Prop. 6, an amendment to the California Constitution that would ban forced labor in prisons.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This episode has been updated to clarify the status of California’s volunteer firefighter program.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC1694673417&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a transcript of the episode.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:02] Let’s take it back to history class real quick. In 1865, the U.S. ratified the 13th Amendment to the Constitution, otherwise known as the Prohibition Clause.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:17] This is the clause that we were all taught banned slavery and involuntary servitude in the United States once and for all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:25] Which it did, except not completely. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:32] And I’m Olivia Allen-Price. And you’re listening to Prop Fest, a collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curious where we help you get smart on all the statewide propositions on your ballot this year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:45] The Constitution says slavery and involuntary servitude are prohibited except as punishment for convicted crimes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:54] That exception has allowed dozens of states, including California, to force incarcerated people to work in prisons whether they want to or not.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:04] Proposition 6 hopes to close that loophole once and for all and begin limiting forced labor in California state prisons.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:01:14] Today, we’re going to break down Proposition 6 for you right after this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:22] Today we’re talking about Proposition 6. Here’s how it will read on your ballot. Prop 6 amends the California Constitution to remove current provision that allows jails and prisons to impose involuntary servitude to punish crime, i.e., forcing incarcerated persons to work. Today, we talk with KQED arts and culture columnist Pendarvis Harshaw to help us break down what Prop 6 is all about.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:51] Your story on prison labor mentions a poultry processing enterprise at a state prison near the Central Valley. I mean, there’s really it seems like a really wide range of jobs that California inmates are doing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw \u003c/strong>[00:02:24] It’s the notion of what you can see, you know about, what you don’t see. You have no idea. People who are residents of different institutions around the state work on everything from furniture that appears in college dorm rooms to license plates and and things of that nature, even working internally and doing maintenance. Somebody told me about working on the big industrial dryers inside of a women’s facility. There are a lot of education or jobs or even counseling jobs that people who are incarcerated do as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:59] And some of this is, I mean, really dangerous work, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw \u003c/strong>[00:03:04] Yeah. There’s the maintenance work that that can be done inside of prisons. Definitely dangerous. And not all jobs are blue collar or a front line. There are a lot of education or jobs or even counseling jobs that people who are incarcerated do as well. Folks have shared with me that some of them make $0.11 an hour or $0.14 an hour. And a lot of that goes not even directly into their pocket, can go into anything from health care to restitution. There are people who work for ducats or tokens, which essentially goes to time earned against their sentence. So they might get out sooner because of their labor. In southern states you’ve seen there are examples of people who work in chain gangs. And so the parallels between that and slavery are like clear present.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:55] Because there are also consequences for some folks inside of prisons. If you don’t want to work right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw \u003c/strong>[00:04:02] If you get assigned a job and you do not work, then yes, you can be penalized.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:04:06] So enter then Prop 6 Pen, which would amend California’s constitution and prohibit the state from punishing inmates with involuntary work assignments. Can you talk a little bit more about the changes that Prop 6 would make exactly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw \u003c/strong>[00:04:27] Prop six would essentially ban involuntary servitude in California prisons. California’s just the latest to try to close this loophole in the past two years. Alabama, Oregon, Tennessee and Vermont have all passed legislation in order to change this. This is a byproduct of years of work from different organizations and legislators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Asm. Lori Wilson \u003c/strong>[00:04:48] California is among only 16 states with an exception clause for involuntary servitude.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw \u003c/strong>[00:04:55] This particular year, Legislative Black Caucus. Lori Wilson did a lot of work to get this off the ground.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Asm. Lori Wilson \u003c/strong>[00:05:01] Slavery takes on the modern form of involuntary servitude, including forced labor in prisons. Slavery is wrong, and all forms in California should be clear and denouncing that in our Constitution.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw \u003c/strong>[00:05:16] There’s been a lot of support by the organization that I talked to, all of us or None, which is a community group that’s based in Oakland, California. Their work is to help formerly incarcerated folks return to society, as well as to get behind initiatives like this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lawrence Cox \u003c/strong>[00:05:33] We want to give people the choice of whether or not they choose to work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw \u003c/strong>[00:05:38] Lawrence Cox is one of three people that I talk to who work for All of Us Or None. They filled me in on some background.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lawrence Cox \u003c/strong>[00:05:44] For us here in California. This is the fourth consecutive year that we’ve attempted to make that reach the ballot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw \u003c/strong>[00:05:51] Saying it’s about humanity, it’s about labor rights. And then beyond that, it’s about this capitalist system. And Lawrence Cox talked about this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lawrence Cox \u003c/strong>[00:06:00] We’re not only trying to change the Constitution because we’re not talking about symbolism. We’re focused on creating airtight solutions that prevent the exploitation of individuals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:12] Who else do we know is for Prop six?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw \u003c/strong>[00:06:17] Other organizations that are in favor of Prop six are orgs that do the work for people who are incarcerated, families who are incarcerated and people who are reentering society. So the anti recidivism coalition, ACLU of Northern California, organizations that are on the frontlines working with these folks who have been impacted by the system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:37] And do we know what like the money is looking like in terms of support for Prop six? Who’s throwing coin basically into the Yes on Prop six campaign?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw \u003c/strong>[00:06:49] It’s it’s a tilted scale. Nearly $500,000 worth of support behind Prop six. And there have been $0 spent on the no side.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:07:03] There’s no official opposition to Prop six, but the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association has said it opposes it. There have also been a few newspaper editorial boards that call on voters to reject Prop six. The Bay Area News Group argued in a recent op ed that says, quote, Requiring inmates to sweep floors, clean the bathrooms or cook in the kitchen is reasonable. If we expect the same of ourselves and our children, if we insist members of the military conduct those chores, certainly we can ask incarcerated, convicted criminals to do the same, unquote. This also isn’t the first time advocates have tried to pass a similar idea. Back in 2020, the End Slavery in California Act was first introduced. But after two years in the legislature, it failed because lawmakers were worried about how much it would cost. That’s why this time, Prop six allows inmates to volunteer for work assignments without pay, but only if they want to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:08:18] Well, I know you visited San Quentin earlier this year, and I’m curious where you heard from people. Did any of this sort of conversation that we’re having now come up in your visit there?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw \u003c/strong>[00:08:31] It came up naturally. I was in San Quentin in early August, tagging along with a group of journalists, doing a more or less a media day just to get a sense of the media that was being produced out of San Quentin. And of course, if you’re producing media, you’re working and you should be compensated for your work. And so naturally, the conversation would come up like, how much do you make? It was mind blowing because it was said like it was just common or even laughed at like here, you know, just making a little $0.14 here and there, almost saying it in jest or saying it and moving on to the next topic. People have told me that they are looking for employment or some type of work because busy hands stay out of trouble, more or less. The people that I talked to much older understand how prison works and know that by being occupied with their time, it’s a benefit to them. How much do people get compensated? How many people can work? What type of rights do they have? It’s start of a much larger discussion, or probably even the continuation of a conversation that’s been happening for some time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:34] Well, Pen, thank you so much for breaking this down for us. We really appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw \u003c/strong>[00:09:39] Thank you. Thank you for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:44] In a nutshell, a yes vote on Prop six means involuntary servitude would not be allowed as punishment for crime and that California prisons would not be allowed to discipline people in prison who refuse to work. A no vote means involuntary servitude would continue to be allowed as punishment for a crime in California. And that is it for today’s episode of Prop Fest. If you missed our other episodes, you can always find them at kqed.org/prop fest. Stay locked in and make sure you are subscribed so you don’t miss out on the next ones.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:10:30] Prop fest is a collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curious Podcasts. It is produced by Alan Montecillo, Ericka Cruz Guevarra, Christopher Beale, Amanda Font, Jessica Kariisa, and me, Olivia Allen-Price.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:10:45] We get extra support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad, and Holly Kernan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:10:52] And the whole KQED family. For more super helpful info on both state and local elections, make sure to bookmark KQED is handy Election guide at kqed.org/voter Guide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:06] I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:11:08] And I’m Olivia Allen-Price. We’ll be back next week with an explainer on prop 32, which would raise California’s minimum wage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:16] Talk to you then.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Prop Fest\u003c/a> is a collaboration from Bay Curious and The Bay podcasts, where we break down each of the 10 statewide propositions that will be on your November 2024 ballot. Check out \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">KQED’s Voter Guide\u003c/a> for more information on state and local races.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Today, arts and culture columnist Pendarvis Harshaw joins us to break down Prop. 6, an amendment to the California Constitution that would ban forced labor in prisons.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This episode has been updated to clarify the status of California’s volunteer firefighter program.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC1694673417&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a transcript of the episode.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:02] Let’s take it back to history class real quick. In 1865, the U.S. ratified the 13th Amendment to the Constitution, otherwise known as the Prohibition Clause.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:17] This is the clause that we were all taught banned slavery and involuntary servitude in the United States once and for all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:25] Which it did, except not completely. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:32] And I’m Olivia Allen-Price. And you’re listening to Prop Fest, a collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curious where we help you get smart on all the statewide propositions on your ballot this year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:45] The Constitution says slavery and involuntary servitude are prohibited except as punishment for convicted crimes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:54] That exception has allowed dozens of states, including California, to force incarcerated people to work in prisons whether they want to or not.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:04] Proposition 6 hopes to close that loophole once and for all and begin limiting forced labor in California state prisons.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:01:14] Today, we’re going to break down Proposition 6 for you right after this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:22] Today we’re talking about Proposition 6. Here’s how it will read on your ballot. Prop 6 amends the California Constitution to remove current provision that allows jails and prisons to impose involuntary servitude to punish crime, i.e., forcing incarcerated persons to work. Today, we talk with KQED arts and culture columnist Pendarvis Harshaw to help us break down what Prop 6 is all about.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:51] Your story on prison labor mentions a poultry processing enterprise at a state prison near the Central Valley. I mean, there’s really it seems like a really wide range of jobs that California inmates are doing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw \u003c/strong>[00:02:24] It’s the notion of what you can see, you know about, what you don’t see. You have no idea. People who are residents of different institutions around the state work on everything from furniture that appears in college dorm rooms to license plates and and things of that nature, even working internally and doing maintenance. Somebody told me about working on the big industrial dryers inside of a women’s facility. There are a lot of education or jobs or even counseling jobs that people who are incarcerated do as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:59] And some of this is, I mean, really dangerous work, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw \u003c/strong>[00:03:04] Yeah. There’s the maintenance work that that can be done inside of prisons. Definitely dangerous. And not all jobs are blue collar or a front line. There are a lot of education or jobs or even counseling jobs that people who are incarcerated do as well. Folks have shared with me that some of them make $0.11 an hour or $0.14 an hour. And a lot of that goes not even directly into their pocket, can go into anything from health care to restitution. There are people who work for ducats or tokens, which essentially goes to time earned against their sentence. So they might get out sooner because of their labor. In southern states you’ve seen there are examples of people who work in chain gangs. And so the parallels between that and slavery are like clear present.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:55] Because there are also consequences for some folks inside of prisons. If you don’t want to work right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw \u003c/strong>[00:04:02] If you get assigned a job and you do not work, then yes, you can be penalized.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:04:06] So enter then Prop 6 Pen, which would amend California’s constitution and prohibit the state from punishing inmates with involuntary work assignments. Can you talk a little bit more about the changes that Prop 6 would make exactly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw \u003c/strong>[00:04:27] Prop six would essentially ban involuntary servitude in California prisons. California’s just the latest to try to close this loophole in the past two years. Alabama, Oregon, Tennessee and Vermont have all passed legislation in order to change this. This is a byproduct of years of work from different organizations and legislators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Asm. Lori Wilson \u003c/strong>[00:04:48] California is among only 16 states with an exception clause for involuntary servitude.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw \u003c/strong>[00:04:55] This particular year, Legislative Black Caucus. Lori Wilson did a lot of work to get this off the ground.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Asm. Lori Wilson \u003c/strong>[00:05:01] Slavery takes on the modern form of involuntary servitude, including forced labor in prisons. Slavery is wrong, and all forms in California should be clear and denouncing that in our Constitution.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw \u003c/strong>[00:05:16] There’s been a lot of support by the organization that I talked to, all of us or None, which is a community group that’s based in Oakland, California. Their work is to help formerly incarcerated folks return to society, as well as to get behind initiatives like this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lawrence Cox \u003c/strong>[00:05:33] We want to give people the choice of whether or not they choose to work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw \u003c/strong>[00:05:38] Lawrence Cox is one of three people that I talk to who work for All of Us Or None. They filled me in on some background.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lawrence Cox \u003c/strong>[00:05:44] For us here in California. This is the fourth consecutive year that we’ve attempted to make that reach the ballot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw \u003c/strong>[00:05:51] Saying it’s about humanity, it’s about labor rights. And then beyond that, it’s about this capitalist system. And Lawrence Cox talked about this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lawrence Cox \u003c/strong>[00:06:00] We’re not only trying to change the Constitution because we’re not talking about symbolism. We’re focused on creating airtight solutions that prevent the exploitation of individuals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:12] Who else do we know is for Prop six?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw \u003c/strong>[00:06:17] Other organizations that are in favor of Prop six are orgs that do the work for people who are incarcerated, families who are incarcerated and people who are reentering society. So the anti recidivism coalition, ACLU of Northern California, organizations that are on the frontlines working with these folks who have been impacted by the system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:37] And do we know what like the money is looking like in terms of support for Prop six? Who’s throwing coin basically into the Yes on Prop six campaign?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw \u003c/strong>[00:06:49] It’s it’s a tilted scale. Nearly $500,000 worth of support behind Prop six. And there have been $0 spent on the no side.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:07:03] There’s no official opposition to Prop six, but the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association has said it opposes it. There have also been a few newspaper editorial boards that call on voters to reject Prop six. The Bay Area News Group argued in a recent op ed that says, quote, Requiring inmates to sweep floors, clean the bathrooms or cook in the kitchen is reasonable. If we expect the same of ourselves and our children, if we insist members of the military conduct those chores, certainly we can ask incarcerated, convicted criminals to do the same, unquote. This also isn’t the first time advocates have tried to pass a similar idea. Back in 2020, the End Slavery in California Act was first introduced. But after two years in the legislature, it failed because lawmakers were worried about how much it would cost. That’s why this time, Prop six allows inmates to volunteer for work assignments without pay, but only if they want to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:08:18] Well, I know you visited San Quentin earlier this year, and I’m curious where you heard from people. Did any of this sort of conversation that we’re having now come up in your visit there?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw \u003c/strong>[00:08:31] It came up naturally. I was in San Quentin in early August, tagging along with a group of journalists, doing a more or less a media day just to get a sense of the media that was being produced out of San Quentin. And of course, if you’re producing media, you’re working and you should be compensated for your work. And so naturally, the conversation would come up like, how much do you make? It was mind blowing because it was said like it was just common or even laughed at like here, you know, just making a little $0.14 here and there, almost saying it in jest or saying it and moving on to the next topic. People have told me that they are looking for employment or some type of work because busy hands stay out of trouble, more or less. The people that I talked to much older understand how prison works and know that by being occupied with their time, it’s a benefit to them. How much do people get compensated? How many people can work? What type of rights do they have? It’s start of a much larger discussion, or probably even the continuation of a conversation that’s been happening for some time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:34] Well, Pen, thank you so much for breaking this down for us. We really appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw \u003c/strong>[00:09:39] Thank you. Thank you for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:44] In a nutshell, a yes vote on Prop six means involuntary servitude would not be allowed as punishment for crime and that California prisons would not be allowed to discipline people in prison who refuse to work. A no vote means involuntary servitude would continue to be allowed as punishment for a crime in California. And that is it for today’s episode of Prop Fest. If you missed our other episodes, you can always find them at kqed.org/prop fest. Stay locked in and make sure you are subscribed so you don’t miss out on the next ones.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:10:30] Prop fest is a collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curious Podcasts. It is produced by Alan Montecillo, Ericka Cruz Guevarra, Christopher Beale, Amanda Font, Jessica Kariisa, and me, Olivia Allen-Price.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:10:45] We get extra support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad, and Holly Kernan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:10:52] And the whole KQED family. For more super helpful info on both state and local elections, make sure to bookmark KQED is handy Election guide at kqed.org/voter Guide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:06] I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:11:08] And I’m Olivia Allen-Price. We’ll be back next week with an explainer on prop 32, which would raise California’s minimum wage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Prop Fest\u003c/a> is a collaboration from Bay Curious and The Bay podcasts, where we break down each of the 10 statewide propositions that will be on your November 2024 ballot. Check out \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">KQED’s Voter Guide\u003c/a> for more information on state and local races.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Today, KQED climate reporter Ezra David Romero breaks down Proposition 4, a $10 billion bond for climate and environment-related projects across the state.\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC8420453070&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a transcript of the episode.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:00] California has got some of the most ambitious climate goals in the country and the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:06] In 2022, the state released the world’s first plan to achieve net zero carbon pollution.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:13] But we’re not going to get there overnight or for free.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:17] It’s going to take a radical reimagining of how we live life in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:24] I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:26] And I’m Olivia Allen-Price. And you’re listening to Prop Fest, a collaboration between the Bay and Bay curious where we help you get smart on all the statewide propositions on your ballot this year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:39] Earlier this year, the state legislature passed a $10 billion bond to invest in climate change programs and solutions. And now it needs voters final seal of approval.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:51] And it’s coming to you in the form of proposition for the climate bond.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:56] This proposal to borrow more money for climate change solutions comes at a time when the state made some tough decisions on climate related programs because of a big budget deficit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:01:08] So now it’s up to voters to decide how much of a priority climate change solutions are. By voting to approve or reject this $10 billion bond.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:18] Today, we’re going to break down Proposition 4 for you right after this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:28] Today we’re talking about Proposition four. Here’s how it will read on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Voiceover \u003c/strong>[00:01:33] Prop 4 authorizes 10 billion in general obligation bonds for water, wildfire prevention and protection of communities and lands.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:41] We hit up climate reporter Ezra David Romero to break down what this prop will mean for you. Well, Ezra, so we’ve got another bond on the ballot this November. This time voters are being asked to borrow $10 billion for investments in climate change solutions. What is the back story like? How did this get on the ballot in the first place?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:02:04] Yeah. To understand that, we have to go back a couple of years, when environmental lobbyists started lobbying the legislature to like say, look, let’s have a climate bond. Let’s create some big projects that can hopefully protect the state from wildfires and floods and things like that. About two years ago, both sides of the state legislature came up with two different bond measures for about $15 billion each to, you know, combat climate change across California. But at the same time, California was going through this really big, huge budget deficit. Right? And this year, we had about a $46.8 billion budget deficit, which meant that some of these climate programs were also going to get cut. It was really about like, how can we do this? Like really big infrastructure projects that can make sure our future is safe when it comes to wildfires, when it comes to flood, maybe like sea level rise, drought, things like that. And the fight to get this climate bond this year was actually like quite until the end. The two sides of the legislature came together and created one climate bond. And it really wasn’t even in real language until the day before it was due a few months ago. And that’s because a few things like the state only had a certain amount of bonding capacity. How much money the state’s really willing to like go in debt for. And then there were like competing bonds and housing and education. And then also, like climate groups really wanted this thing. But ultimately it happened. And now we have like a $10 billion bond that voters can potentially vote for in November.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:39] Right. And clearly, lawmakers believe that addressing climate change with this bond was important enough. So what exactly was their rationale behind this? How did they talk about that in the state legislature?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:03:53] Yeah, I think it’s really quite simple. We live in a state that has all these climate effects happening right now. Just think of this year, right? We had major wildfires in Southern California just this past month. We had major flooding in Los Angeles, you know, earlier in the year. We had extreme hot days in Sacramento for like a couple of weeks. Right. And then we had the fourth largest fire in California history called the Park Fire near Chico. So we had all these things happening at the same time. We needed to prepare for the future because all these things could get worse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Asm. Damon Connolly \u003c/strong>[00:04:26] People are living the consequences right now in our state.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:04:31] I spoke to Damon Connolly. He’s the assemblymember for the San Rafael area. And he basically said, you know, like his area floods, his area burns, and like this climate bond would help protect his region, hopefully from future climate change when it comes to flooding and drought and fires in the future.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Asm. Damon Connolly \u003c/strong>[00:04:49] The climate bond proposal will ensure that our investments in climate resilience are bolstered rather than falling by the wayside.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:04:58] So this climate bond passed in the legislature and now voters will decide whether or not to approve it. And the official name is actually got a lot going on in it. It’s the Safe Drinking Water, Drought Preparedness and Clean Air Bond Act of 2024. It’s got lots of things going in there. Ezra, what would Prop 4 do exactly, though?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:05:24] Yeah, you’re right. It does have like this big name and that’s because it’s this big bond to do many things. And I think to like get Californians across the state to vote for it. It has to do a lot of things. Right, because the climate effects in, say, Southern California aren’t the same in Central California or Northern California or the Bay Area. First, it provides funds for some of those programs that were cut because of the budget cuts, and that’s a smaller amount. And then in a really big way I think the second thing it does is going to be used mostly for these big infrastructure projects like improving levees or the storm water systems that capture water during storms, preparing homes for wildfires and thinning the forests that could burn or preparing for the drought when it comes to like water supplies. A lot of this money is going to go to water and flooding about $3.8 billion, the most money out of the entire bond in one area. One of those areas is water recycling. You know, that’s where our water from, our toilets or our showers, you know, goes into like a water plant. And then it’s like cleaned up in, say, in the San Francisco Bay area. It goes back into the bay. But the idea there is they want to spend $400 million to make these plants into more of a water recycling plant where we reuse that water perhaps for drinking or for our gardens or our lawns and things like that. And that’s really important because in the future, as we have more droughts, like we’re going to have like a smaller water supply.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:56] And we talked about some statewide programs getting cut from the governor’s budget because of this budget deficit that the state is facing. But what kinds of climate programs could actually get restored with the money from this bond?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:07:15] One program really sticks out to me. That’s the Transformative Climate Communities Program. And that’s all about like making sure communities themselves can come up with their own ways to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in their own communities. In the budget, in the in the over the past two years, that program was basically zeroed out. And this bond, if like California voters vote for it like could restore that project to $150 million. And that project has helped communities all over California like Arvin, Stockton, Bakersfield, Pomona, Coachella, San Diego. So it’s really helped communities all across the state. And that funding could come back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:07:55] Yeah, that’s I mean, that’s a huge difference as far as $0 to $150 million for this program.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:08:01] Yeah, definitely. You know, it could bring to life this program and allow grants to be given to more communities. Basically, that program cycles a number of grants every year, and this will allow them to potentially give more grants to communities if voters vote for it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:08:19] So, I mean, it seems pretty clear that Democrats in the legislature who who voted for this bond and approved it in the legislature earlier this year are for this bond. But who else is supporting Proposition 4?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:08:35] Well, there’s this really big group of environmental groups and nature based groups and firefighter groups that all came together and made a letter to the legislature earlier this year. And they asked the legislature to support this. So there’s groups like Latino Outdoors and there Save the Bay. And then there’s the California Environmental Voters Organization.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Mike Young \u003c/strong>[00:08:56] Climate change, whether you believe it or not, it’s happening. It’s not a belief system. It’s just the science. And sooner or later, we’re going to face those consequences. And many people already are.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:09:06] I spoke to Mike Young. He’s a senior political organizing director at California Environmental Voters. He basically really loves this plan because it’s going to help create California, you know, that maybe can withstand droughts and wildfires and sea level rise in the future.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Mike Young \u003c/strong>[00:09:19] Lot of times environmental benefits are that people relate to or the ones that they can see the most. Seeing California build out clean energy infrastructure, especially solar and offshore wind is going to be really helpful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:32] And who’s coming out against Prop 4?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:09:35] In my reporting, I didn’t find very many groups or people against it. I only found two. There is the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association. They didn’t respond to my emails for comment. They say the bond is a most expensive way for the government to pay for things. Secondly, they say that some of the money could go towards technology that’s like maybe not proven. Third, they think California should like maybe find other ways that don’t and care so much debt for the state.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sen. Brian Jones \u003c/strong>[00:10:02] The bottom line on Proposition 4 is it is the most expensive way to fund government.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:10:08] And then there’s Senate GOP leader Brian Jones.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sen. Brian Jones \u003c/strong>[00:10:11] Many of the items that are being proposed to be paid for in this bond do not rise to the level of being a long term infrastructure project. For example, grants for exhibits and galleries at zoos and museums.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:10:27] He wrote an op-ed in Calmatters. His whole point was that, like, the taxpayers are going to have to pay for this and it’s just too expensive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sen. Brian Jones \u003c/strong>[00:10:35] In my opinion, Proposition 4 pays long term for short term projects and should be rejected by the voters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:10:45] And let’s talk about the money here, Ezra. Who’s funding the support and opposition for Prop four?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:10:53] Well, the people for it, the organizations for it have raised about $700,000. Those are most of those environmental groups that I talked about a little bit earlier. And the opponents from to my knowledge, haven’t raised anything. And I found some new polling from the Public Policy Institute of California that came out recently. And they found that like 65% of voters would likely vote yes for the climate bond and that 3 in 4 likely voters say the outcome of Proposition 4 is very important or somewhat important. And I think it all comes down to like Californians are living through all this. Right? And it’s top of mind.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:28] At the end of the day as to how much will this bond cost Californians.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:11:34] Yeah. Bonds always mean debt. So repaying the money could cost about $400 million a year for about 40 years. That’s according to the Legislative Analyst’s Office. And altogether, that’s about $16 billion in total.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:48] Well, Ezra, thank you so much for breaking down Prop four for us. I appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:11:52] Hey, no problem.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:54] In a nutshell, a yes. Vote on this measure means the state could borrow $10 billion to fund various activities aimed at conserving natural resources, as well as responding to the causes and effects of climate change. A vote no means the state could not borrow $10 billion to fund various conservation and climate change related projects.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:12:25] And that is it for today’s episode of Prop Fest. You can always find our other prop these episodes and share them with your friends at KQED Dawgs Prop Fest. Stay locked in and make sure you’re subscribed so you don’t miss out on the next ones.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:12:44] Prop fest is a collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curious Podcasts. It is produced by Alan Montecillo, Jessica Kariisa, Ericka Cruz Guevarra, Amanda Font, Christopher Beale, Ana De Almeida Amaral, and me, Olivia-Allen Price.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:12:58] We get extra support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad, and Holly Kernan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:13:05] And the whole KQED family. Our show is made in San Francisco at member supported KQED. If you value podcasts like this one, please consider becoming a sustaining member of KQED. Learn more at kqed.org/donate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:21] I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:13:22] And I’m Olivia Allen-Price. We’ll be back tomorrow with an explainer on Proposition five, a change in how we approve local bonds. I’m already needing some help with that one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:33] And I am right there with you, Olivia. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Prop Fest\u003c/a> is a collaboration from Bay Curious and The Bay podcasts, where we break down each of the 10 statewide propositions that will be on your November 2024 ballot. Check out \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">KQED’s Voter Guide\u003c/a> for more information on state and local races.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Today, KQED climate reporter Ezra David Romero breaks down Proposition 4, a $10 billion bond for climate and environment-related projects across the state.\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC8420453070&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a transcript of the episode.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:00] California has got some of the most ambitious climate goals in the country and the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:06] In 2022, the state released the world’s first plan to achieve net zero carbon pollution.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:13] But we’re not going to get there overnight or for free.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:17] It’s going to take a radical reimagining of how we live life in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:24] I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:26] And I’m Olivia Allen-Price. And you’re listening to Prop Fest, a collaboration between the Bay and Bay curious where we help you get smart on all the statewide propositions on your ballot this year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:39] Earlier this year, the state legislature passed a $10 billion bond to invest in climate change programs and solutions. And now it needs voters final seal of approval.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:51] And it’s coming to you in the form of proposition for the climate bond.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:56] This proposal to borrow more money for climate change solutions comes at a time when the state made some tough decisions on climate related programs because of a big budget deficit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:01:08] So now it’s up to voters to decide how much of a priority climate change solutions are. By voting to approve or reject this $10 billion bond.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:18] Today, we’re going to break down Proposition 4 for you right after this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:28] Today we’re talking about Proposition four. Here’s how it will read on your ballot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Voiceover \u003c/strong>[00:01:33] Prop 4 authorizes 10 billion in general obligation bonds for water, wildfire prevention and protection of communities and lands.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:41] We hit up climate reporter Ezra David Romero to break down what this prop will mean for you. Well, Ezra, so we’ve got another bond on the ballot this November. This time voters are being asked to borrow $10 billion for investments in climate change solutions. What is the back story like? How did this get on the ballot in the first place?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:02:04] Yeah. To understand that, we have to go back a couple of years, when environmental lobbyists started lobbying the legislature to like say, look, let’s have a climate bond. Let’s create some big projects that can hopefully protect the state from wildfires and floods and things like that. About two years ago, both sides of the state legislature came up with two different bond measures for about $15 billion each to, you know, combat climate change across California. But at the same time, California was going through this really big, huge budget deficit. Right? And this year, we had about a $46.8 billion budget deficit, which meant that some of these climate programs were also going to get cut. It was really about like, how can we do this? Like really big infrastructure projects that can make sure our future is safe when it comes to wildfires, when it comes to flood, maybe like sea level rise, drought, things like that. And the fight to get this climate bond this year was actually like quite until the end. The two sides of the legislature came together and created one climate bond. And it really wasn’t even in real language until the day before it was due a few months ago. And that’s because a few things like the state only had a certain amount of bonding capacity. How much money the state’s really willing to like go in debt for. And then there were like competing bonds and housing and education. And then also, like climate groups really wanted this thing. But ultimately it happened. And now we have like a $10 billion bond that voters can potentially vote for in November.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:39] Right. And clearly, lawmakers believe that addressing climate change with this bond was important enough. So what exactly was their rationale behind this? How did they talk about that in the state legislature?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:03:53] Yeah, I think it’s really quite simple. We live in a state that has all these climate effects happening right now. Just think of this year, right? We had major wildfires in Southern California just this past month. We had major flooding in Los Angeles, you know, earlier in the year. We had extreme hot days in Sacramento for like a couple of weeks. Right. And then we had the fourth largest fire in California history called the Park Fire near Chico. So we had all these things happening at the same time. We needed to prepare for the future because all these things could get worse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Asm. Damon Connolly \u003c/strong>[00:04:26] People are living the consequences right now in our state.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:04:31] I spoke to Damon Connolly. He’s the assemblymember for the San Rafael area. And he basically said, you know, like his area floods, his area burns, and like this climate bond would help protect his region, hopefully from future climate change when it comes to flooding and drought and fires in the future.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Asm. Damon Connolly \u003c/strong>[00:04:49] The climate bond proposal will ensure that our investments in climate resilience are bolstered rather than falling by the wayside.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:04:58] So this climate bond passed in the legislature and now voters will decide whether or not to approve it. And the official name is actually got a lot going on in it. It’s the Safe Drinking Water, Drought Preparedness and Clean Air Bond Act of 2024. It’s got lots of things going in there. Ezra, what would Prop 4 do exactly, though?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:05:24] Yeah, you’re right. It does have like this big name and that’s because it’s this big bond to do many things. And I think to like get Californians across the state to vote for it. It has to do a lot of things. Right, because the climate effects in, say, Southern California aren’t the same in Central California or Northern California or the Bay Area. First, it provides funds for some of those programs that were cut because of the budget cuts, and that’s a smaller amount. And then in a really big way I think the second thing it does is going to be used mostly for these big infrastructure projects like improving levees or the storm water systems that capture water during storms, preparing homes for wildfires and thinning the forests that could burn or preparing for the drought when it comes to like water supplies. A lot of this money is going to go to water and flooding about $3.8 billion, the most money out of the entire bond in one area. One of those areas is water recycling. You know, that’s where our water from, our toilets or our showers, you know, goes into like a water plant. And then it’s like cleaned up in, say, in the San Francisco Bay area. It goes back into the bay. But the idea there is they want to spend $400 million to make these plants into more of a water recycling plant where we reuse that water perhaps for drinking or for our gardens or our lawns and things like that. And that’s really important because in the future, as we have more droughts, like we’re going to have like a smaller water supply.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:56] And we talked about some statewide programs getting cut from the governor’s budget because of this budget deficit that the state is facing. But what kinds of climate programs could actually get restored with the money from this bond?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:07:15] One program really sticks out to me. That’s the Transformative Climate Communities Program. And that’s all about like making sure communities themselves can come up with their own ways to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in their own communities. In the budget, in the in the over the past two years, that program was basically zeroed out. And this bond, if like California voters vote for it like could restore that project to $150 million. And that project has helped communities all over California like Arvin, Stockton, Bakersfield, Pomona, Coachella, San Diego. So it’s really helped communities all across the state. And that funding could come back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:07:55] Yeah, that’s I mean, that’s a huge difference as far as $0 to $150 million for this program.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:08:01] Yeah, definitely. You know, it could bring to life this program and allow grants to be given to more communities. Basically, that program cycles a number of grants every year, and this will allow them to potentially give more grants to communities if voters vote for it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:08:19] So, I mean, it seems pretty clear that Democrats in the legislature who who voted for this bond and approved it in the legislature earlier this year are for this bond. But who else is supporting Proposition 4?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:08:35] Well, there’s this really big group of environmental groups and nature based groups and firefighter groups that all came together and made a letter to the legislature earlier this year. And they asked the legislature to support this. So there’s groups like Latino Outdoors and there Save the Bay. And then there’s the California Environmental Voters Organization.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Mike Young \u003c/strong>[00:08:56] Climate change, whether you believe it or not, it’s happening. It’s not a belief system. It’s just the science. And sooner or later, we’re going to face those consequences. And many people already are.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:09:06] I spoke to Mike Young. He’s a senior political organizing director at California Environmental Voters. He basically really loves this plan because it’s going to help create California, you know, that maybe can withstand droughts and wildfires and sea level rise in the future.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Mike Young \u003c/strong>[00:09:19] Lot of times environmental benefits are that people relate to or the ones that they can see the most. Seeing California build out clean energy infrastructure, especially solar and offshore wind is going to be really helpful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:32] And who’s coming out against Prop 4?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:09:35] In my reporting, I didn’t find very many groups or people against it. I only found two. There is the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association. They didn’t respond to my emails for comment. They say the bond is a most expensive way for the government to pay for things. Secondly, they say that some of the money could go towards technology that’s like maybe not proven. Third, they think California should like maybe find other ways that don’t and care so much debt for the state.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sen. Brian Jones \u003c/strong>[00:10:02] The bottom line on Proposition 4 is it is the most expensive way to fund government.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:10:08] And then there’s Senate GOP leader Brian Jones.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sen. Brian Jones \u003c/strong>[00:10:11] Many of the items that are being proposed to be paid for in this bond do not rise to the level of being a long term infrastructure project. For example, grants for exhibits and galleries at zoos and museums.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:10:27] He wrote an op-ed in Calmatters. His whole point was that, like, the taxpayers are going to have to pay for this and it’s just too expensive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sen. Brian Jones \u003c/strong>[00:10:35] In my opinion, Proposition 4 pays long term for short term projects and should be rejected by the voters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:10:45] And let’s talk about the money here, Ezra. Who’s funding the support and opposition for Prop four?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:10:53] Well, the people for it, the organizations for it have raised about $700,000. Those are most of those environmental groups that I talked about a little bit earlier. And the opponents from to my knowledge, haven’t raised anything. And I found some new polling from the Public Policy Institute of California that came out recently. And they found that like 65% of voters would likely vote yes for the climate bond and that 3 in 4 likely voters say the outcome of Proposition 4 is very important or somewhat important. And I think it all comes down to like Californians are living through all this. Right? And it’s top of mind.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:28] At the end of the day as to how much will this bond cost Californians.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:11:34] Yeah. Bonds always mean debt. So repaying the money could cost about $400 million a year for about 40 years. That’s according to the Legislative Analyst’s Office. And altogether, that’s about $16 billion in total.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:48] Well, Ezra, thank you so much for breaking down Prop four for us. I appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ezra David Romero \u003c/strong>[00:11:52] Hey, no problem.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:54] In a nutshell, a yes. Vote on this measure means the state could borrow $10 billion to fund various activities aimed at conserving natural resources, as well as responding to the causes and effects of climate change. A vote no means the state could not borrow $10 billion to fund various conservation and climate change related projects.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:12:25] And that is it for today’s episode of Prop Fest. You can always find our other prop these episodes and share them with your friends at KQED Dawgs Prop Fest. Stay locked in and make sure you’re subscribed so you don’t miss out on the next ones.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:12:44] Prop fest is a collaboration between the Bay and Bay Curious Podcasts. It is produced by Alan Montecillo, Jessica Kariisa, Ericka Cruz Guevarra, Amanda Font, Christopher Beale, Ana De Almeida Amaral, and me, Olivia-Allen Price.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:12:58] We get extra support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Maha Sanad, and Holly Kernan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:13:05] And the whole KQED family. Our show is made in San Francisco at member supported KQED. If you value podcasts like this one, please consider becoming a sustaining member of KQED. Learn more at kqed.org/donate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:21] I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:13:22] And I’m Olivia Allen-Price. We’ll be back tomorrow with an explainer on Proposition five, a change in how we approve local bonds. I’m already needing some help with that one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:33] And I am right there with you, Olivia. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"info": "\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em>, which listeners will hear in the first part of the hour, has fearless and much-needed conversations about race. Hosted by journalists of color, the show tackles the subject of race head-on, exploring how it impacts every part of society — from politics and pop culture to history, sports and more.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em>, which will be in the second part of the hour, guides you through spaces and feelings no one prepares you for — from finances to mental health, from workplace microaggressions to imposter syndrome, from relationships to parenting. The show features experts with real world experience and shares their knowledge. Because everyone needs a little help being human.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510312/codeswitch\">\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/lifekit\">\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />",
"airtime": "SUN 9pm-10pm",
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"meta": {
"site": "radio",
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"id": "commonwealth-club",
"title": "Commonwealth Club of California Podcast",
"info": "The Commonwealth Club of California is the nation's oldest and largest public affairs forum. As a non-partisan forum, The Club brings to the public airwaves diverse viewpoints on important topics. The Club's weekly radio broadcast - the oldest in the U.S., dating back to 1924 - is carried across the nation on public radio stations and is now podcasting. Our website archive features audio of our recent programs, as well as selected speeches from our long and distinguished history. This podcast feed is usually updated twice a week and is always un-edited.",
"airtime": "THU 10pm, FRI 1am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Commonwealth-Club-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.commonwealthclub.org/podcasts",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "Commonwealth Club of California"
},
"link": "/radio/program/commonwealth-club",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5jb21tb253ZWFsdGhjbHViLm9yZy9hdWRpby9wb2RjYXN0L3dlZWtseS54bWw",
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}
},
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"id": "forum",
"title": "Forum",
"tagline": "The conversation starts here",
"info": "KQED’s live call-in program discussing local, state, national and international issues, as well as in-depth interviews.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 9am-11am, 10pm-11pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Forum-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED Forum with Mina Kim and Alexis Madrigal",
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 9
},
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM5NTU3MzgxNjMz",
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"id": "freakonomics-radio",
"title": "Freakonomics Radio",
"info": "Freakonomics Radio is a one-hour award-winning podcast and public-radio project hosted by Stephen Dubner, with co-author Steve Levitt as a regular guest. It is produced in partnership with WNYC.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/05/freakonomicsRadio.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://freakonomics.com/",
"airtime": "SUN 1am-2am, SAT 3pm-4pm",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "WNYC"
},
"link": "/radio/program/freakonomics-radio",
"subscribe": {
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/freakonomics-radio/id354668519",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/WNYC-Podcasts/Freakonomics-Radio-p272293/",
"rss": "https://feeds.feedburner.com/freakonomicsradio"
}
},
"fresh-air": {
"id": "fresh-air",
"title": "Fresh Air",
"info": "Hosted by Terry Gross, \u003cem>Fresh Air from WHYY\u003c/em> is the Peabody Award-winning weekday magazine of contemporary arts and issues. One of public radio's most popular programs, Fresh Air features intimate conversations with today's biggest luminaries.",
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"link": "/radio/program/fresh-air",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=214089682&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/381444908/podcast.xml"
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"id": "here-and-now",
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"info": "A live production of NPR and WBUR Boston, in collaboration with stations across the country, Here & Now reflects the fluid world of news as it's happening in the middle of the day, with timely, in-depth news, interviews and conversation. Hosted by Robin Young, Jeremy Hobson and Tonya Mosley.",
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510051/podcast.xml"
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},
"hidden-brain": {
"id": "hidden-brain",
"title": "Hidden Brain",
"info": "Shankar Vedantam uses science and storytelling to reveal the unconscious patterns that drive human behavior, shape our choices and direct our relationships.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/05/hiddenbrain.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/series/423302056/hidden-brain",
"airtime": "SUN 7pm-8pm",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "NPR"
},
"link": "/radio/program/hidden-brain",
"subscribe": {
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"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/Science-Podcasts/Hidden-Brain-p787503/",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510308/podcast.xml"
}
},
"how-i-built-this": {
"id": "how-i-built-this",
"title": "How I Built This with Guy Raz",
"info": "Guy Raz dives into the stories behind some of the world's best known companies. How I Built This weaves a narrative journey about innovators, entrepreneurs and idealists—and the movements they built.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/05/howIBuiltThis.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510313/how-i-built-this",
"airtime": "SUN 7:30pm-8pm",
"meta": {
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"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/how-i-built-this",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/3zxy",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-built-this-with-guy-raz/id1150510297?mt=2",
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510313/podcast.xml"
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},
"hyphenacion": {
"id": "hyphenacion",
"title": "Hyphenación",
"tagline": "Where conversation and cultura meet",
"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/Hyphenacion_FinalAssets_PodcastTile.png",
"imageAlt": "KQED Hyphenación",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/hyphenacion",
"meta": {
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"order": 15
},
"link": "/podcasts/hyphenacion",
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"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/2p3Fifq96nw9BPcmFdIq0o?si=39209f7b25774f38",
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"amazon": "https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/6c3dd23c-93fb-4aab-97ba-1725fa6315f1/hyphenaci%C3%B3n",
"rss": "https://feeds.megaphone.fm/KQINC2275451163"
}
},
"jerrybrown": {
"id": "jerrybrown",
"title": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown",
"tagline": "Lessons from a lifetime in politics",
"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game – and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-Political-Mind-of-Jerry-Brown-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED The Political Mind of Jerry Brown",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/jerrybrown",
"meta": {
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"order": 18
},
"link": "/podcasts/jerrybrown",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1492194549",
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}
},
"latino-usa": {
"id": "latino-usa",
"title": "Latino USA",
"airtime": "MON 1am-2am, SUN 6pm-7pm",
"info": "Latino USA, the radio journal of news and culture, is the only national, English-language radio program produced from a Latino perspective.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/latinoUsa.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://latinousa.org/",
"meta": {
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"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/latino-usa",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/xtTd",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=79681317&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510016/podcast.xml"
}
},
"marketplace": {
"id": "marketplace",
"title": "Marketplace",
"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 4pm-4:30pm, MON-WED 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Marketplace-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.marketplace.org/",
"meta": {
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"source": "American Public Media"
},
"link": "/radio/program/marketplace",
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"rss": "https://feeds.publicradio.org/public_feeds/marketplace-pm/rss/rss"
}
},
"masters-of-scale": {
"id": "masters-of-scale",
"title": "Masters of Scale",
"info": "Masters of Scale is an original podcast in which LinkedIn co-founder and Greylock Partner Reid Hoffman sets out to describe and prove theories that explain how great entrepreneurs take their companies from zero to a gazillion in ingenious fashion.",
"airtime": "Every other Wednesday June 12 through October 16 at 8pm (repeats Thursdays at 2am)",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Masters-of-Scale-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://mastersofscale.com/",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "WaitWhat"
},
"link": "/radio/program/masters-of-scale",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "http://mastersofscale.app.link/",
"rss": "https://rss.art19.com/masters-of-scale"
}
},
"mindshift": {
"id": "mindshift",
"title": "MindShift",
"tagline": "A podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids",
"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED MindShift: How We Will Learn",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/mindshift/",
"meta": {
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 12
},
"link": "/podcasts/mindshift",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mindshift-podcast/id1078765985",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/464615685/mind-shift-podcast",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/stories-teachers-share",
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}
},
"morning-edition": {
"id": "morning-edition",
"title": "Morning Edition",
"info": "\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. Hosts Steve Inskeep, David Greene and Rachel Martin bring you the latest breaking news and features to prepare you for the day.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 3am-9am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Morning-Edition-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/programs/morning-edition/",
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"link": "/radio/program/morning-edition"
},
"onourwatch": {
"id": "onourwatch",
"title": "On Our Watch",
"tagline": "Deeply-reported investigative journalism",
"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/On-Our-Watch-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "On Our Watch from NPR and KQED",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/onourwatch",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 11
},
"link": "/podcasts/onourwatch",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1567098962",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5ucHIub3JnLzUxMDM2MC9wb2RjYXN0LnhtbD9zYz1nb29nbGVwb2RjYXN0cw",
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"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/show/on-our-watch",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510360/podcast.xml"
}
},
"on-the-media": {
"id": "on-the-media",
"title": "On The Media",
"info": "Our weekly podcast explores how the media 'sausage' is made, casts an incisive eye on fluctuations in the marketplace of ideas, and examines threats to the freedom of information and expression in America and abroad. For one hour a week, the show tries to lift the veil from the process of \"making media,\" especially news media, because it's through that lens that we see the world and the world sees us",
"airtime": "SUN 2pm-3pm, MON 12am-1am",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/onTheMedia.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/otm",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "wnyc"
},
"link": "/radio/program/on-the-media",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/on-the-media/id73330715?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/On-the-Media-p69/",
"rss": "http://feeds.wnyc.org/onthemedia"
}
},
"pbs-newshour": {
"id": "pbs-newshour",
"title": "PBS NewsHour",
"info": "Analysis, background reports and updates from the PBS NewsHour putting today's news in context.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 3pm-4pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/PBS-News-Hour-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.pbs.org/newshour/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "pbs"
},
"link": "/radio/program/pbs-newshour",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/pbs-newshour-full-show/id394432287?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/PBS-NewsHour---Full-Show-p425698/",
"rss": "https://www.pbs.org/newshour/feeds/rss/podcasts/show"
}
},
"perspectives": {
"id": "perspectives",
"title": "Perspectives",
"tagline": "KQED's series of daily listener commentaries since 1991",
"info": "KQED's series of daily listener commentaries since 1991.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Perspectives_Tile_Final.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED Perspectives",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/perspectives/",
"meta": {
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 14
},
"link": "/perspectives",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id73801135",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/432309616/perspectives",
"rss": "https://ww2.kqed.org/perspectives/category/perspectives/feed/",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93dzIua3FlZC5vcmcvcGVyc3BlY3RpdmVzL2NhdGVnb3J5L3BlcnNwZWN0aXZlcy9mZWVkLw"
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},
"planet-money": {
"id": "planet-money",
"title": "Planet Money",
"info": "The economy explained. Imagine you could call up a friend and say, Meet me at the bar and tell me what's going on with the economy. Now imagine that's actually a fun evening.",
"airtime": "SUN 3pm-4pm",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/planetmoney.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/sections/money/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/planet-money",
"subscribe": {
"npr": "https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/M4f5",
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/planet-money/id290783428?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/Business--Economics-Podcasts/Planet-Money-p164680/",
"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510289/podcast.xml"
}
},
"politicalbreakdown": {
"id": "politicalbreakdown",
"title": "Political Breakdown",
"tagline": "Politics from a personal perspective",
"info": "Political Breakdown is a new series that explores the political intersection of California and the nation. Each week hosts Scott Shafer and Marisa Lagos are joined with a new special guest to unpack politics -- with personality — and offer an insider’s glimpse at how politics happens.",
"airtime": "THU 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Political-Breakdown-2024-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED Political Breakdown",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/politicalbreakdown",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 5
},
"link": "/podcasts/politicalbreakdown",
"subscribe": {
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"amazon": "https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/e0c2d153-ad36-4c8d-901d-f1da6a724824/political-breakdown",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/572155894/political-breakdown",
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