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If you are experiencing thoughts of suicide, call or text 988 to reach the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Common Sense Media’s Youth AI Safety Institute has rated ChatGPT for Teens as an \u003ca href=\"https://institute.commonsensemedia.org/risk-assessments/chatgpt-teens\">“Unacceptable Risk” for everyone under 18\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/openai\">OpenAI\u003c/a> launched the teen version in August, promising “\u003ca href=\"https://openai.com/index/chatgpt-for-teens/\">stronger built-in safety protections\u003c/a>,” including alerts to parents when a teen discusses self-harm, a study mode parents can switch on, and a chatbot less likely to act like a friend. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“If our system estimates someone is under 18 or they state their age is between 13 and 17, they are automatically placed into ChatGPT for Teens,” the announcement said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The institute tested the product before and after the launch, running more than 4,000 prompts on accounts registered to 13- to 17-year-olds. Child psychiatrists and a pediatrician reviewed the responses.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“We were actually hoping and expecting to see big improvements across the board based on that announcement,” said Tom Siegel, the institute’s executive director and a former Google trust and safety executive. “It didn’t, unfortunately, work out that way at all.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/ChatGPTGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-11998856\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/ChatGPTGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/ChatGPTGetty-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/ChatGPTGetty-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/ChatGPTGetty-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/ChatGPTGetty-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/ChatGPTGetty-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">In conversations involving mental health crises, the institute found ChatGPT missed more than one in four referrals that the psychiatrists said were warranted. (Jaque Silva/SOPA Images/LightRocket via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The report’s central finding concerns safety notifications. Testers linked more than a dozen new teen accounts to parent accounts, then spent up to an hour describing suicidal thoughts, self-harm or disordered eating. The parents received no alerts. The only two notifications the testers got came from older accounts with weeks of conversation history on sensitive topics.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“A teen can spend an hour talking about self-harm without their parent getting a single alert,” Siegel said in a statement.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>OpenAI pushed back on that finding. According to an editorial note added to the report, OpenAI told the researchers that parent and teen accounts must be linked for about three hours before notifications can be sent, and the company has updated its help center to reflect this. The help center now said it “may take up to a few hours” after linking. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Common Sense said some of its test accounts had been linked for less than three hours and others for longer, but that it stands by its results. “Before we began testing, we confirmed with OpenAI that Teen mode features such as eating disorder notifications and study mode were fully launched,” wrote Robbie Torney, Senior Director of AI Programs at Common Sense Media. “This new information does not change our conclusion that parental alerts are unreliable for crisis situations.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Torney added that the testers’ results were shared with OpenAI prior to their public release “in good faith,” and that “We hope OpenAI will engage on the substance of what we found, rather than trying to sow doubt on our methodology.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>When it \u003ca href=\"http://www.kqed.org/news/12096019/openai-introduces-chatgpt-for-teens-promising-a-more-age-appropriate-chatbot\">launched the teen version\u003c/a>, OpenAI said human staff review flagged conversations before a parent is notified, and that it aims to notify parents within an hour.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“We welcome rigorous independent evaluation, but we do not believe Common Sense Media’s testing accurately reflects how ChatGPT’s teen safeguards work in practice or expert perspectives on how AI can support teens,” a spokesperson for OpenAI wrote in a statement. “Our review of Common Sense Media’s methodology shows that the bulk of their testing may have begun and concluded before activation of parental controls was complete, making their findings inaccurate.”\u003cbr>\u003cbr>“If that was the case, the tests would not establish whether parental safety notifications work as designed,” it added.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In \u003ca href=\"http://www.kqed.org/news/12048270/teens-under-the-influence-of-chatbots\">conversations involving mental health crises\u003c/a>, the institute found ChatGPT missed more than one in four referrals that the psychiatrists said were warranted. Before the launch, the share of responses naming a crisis hotline fell from 33% to 23% after it went live. On depression prompts, it fell from 63% to 3%.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The report also tested OpenAI’s age estimation system, which is supposed to recognize minors from how they use ChatGPT and move them into the teen version. Accounts registered to adults never switched over during many days of testing, even after testers said they were 13 and the chatbot acknowledged it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The report gave OpenAI some credit. ChatGPT for Teens refused explicit sexual roleplay more consistently than before. When a 13-year-old’s account was linked to a parent with Study mode on, the chatbot \u003ca href=\"http://www.kqed.org/news/12053799/not-even-ai-can-save-me-students-teachers-on-ai-this-school-year\">completed full homework assignments\u003c/a> far less often after the launch; 18% of the time, compared with 70% before.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12038161\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Unlike digital assistants, companion chatbots are much more likely to veer into socially controversial and even illegal territory. A new report from Stanford University researchers and Common Sense Media argues that children and teens should not use these chatbots. (Jade Gao/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>But testers found the safeguards easy to undo. When a teen asks ChatGPT to complete an assignment, the teen version often offers a pop-up with the option “Show me the answer.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>OpenAI has described the pop-up as giving teens agency over how they learn.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>For an unlinked 17-year-old in Study mode, it completed 88% of assignments after the launch, up from none before. Parents can set Study Hours by adding “@study” to the start of each message, but a teen can simply delete it. Testers also got around Quiet Hours by changing the time zone on the device.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“I don’t call that circumvention. I just call it convenience,” Siegel said. “It’s right there for the child.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>OpenAI announced \u003ca href=\"https://openai.com/index/teens-learn-and-plan/\">new features\u003c/a> for ChatGPT for Teens on Wednesday, including a college planner to help with the college application process, as well as a new teen AI council in partnership with Boston Children’s Hospital’s Digital Wellness Lab. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">An industry-wide issue\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>OpenAI is not the only AI developer with a teen-specific chatbot experience, although ChatGPT is the \u003ca href=\"https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2025/12/09/teens-social-media-and-ai-chatbots-2025/\">most popular with U.S. teens\u003c/a>. Google offers one for Gemini. Anthropic’s Claude is restricted to users 18 and older, as is Meta’s Muse, although Meta AI is \u003ca href=\"http://www.kqed.org/news/12094595/meta-faces-up-to-1-4-trillion-reckoning-as-youth-addiction-trial-opens-in-oakland\">available to teens\u003c/a> on Instagram. A 2025 Common Sense Media and Stanford assessment tested all four, \u003ca href=\"https://www.commonsensemedia.org/sites/default/files/featured-content/files/csm-ai-risk-assessment-mental-health-11142025.pdf\">rating\u003c/a> them “Unacceptable” for teen mental health support.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“Right now, these chatbots are not ready for safe teen usage,” Siegel said, referring to Wednesday’s report. “I’m not saying this lightly, knowing how powerful it can be as a research tool and for fun. The dangers are just too big.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The institute is asking OpenAI to pause marketing of ChatGPT to teens and to restrict it to adults until the company fixes the gaps and proves it through independent testing.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Until then, Common Sense said parents should discuss the risks of AI chatbots with their children, and not rely on built-in protections. Siegel still recommends that parents link their accounts.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“I still suggest using the parental mode, even though it’s flawed, because it is better than nothing,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The Youth AI Institute is funded in part by the OpenAI Foundation, the nonprofit that controls OpenAI, along with Anthropic, Pinterest and several philanthropies. The foundation and OpenAI have also worked together on policy. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In January, they \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12069286/openai-and-common-sense-media-partner-on-new-kids-ai-safety-ballot-measure\">partnered on a California ballot measure\u003c/a> on kids’ AI safety, then paused it in February to negotiate with state lawmakers instead. Common Sense said it keeps full editorial control over its findings.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“They’re the one that created the problems,” Siegel said of OpenAI. “Why shouldn’t they help fund it?”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/openai\">OpenAI\u003c/a> launched the teen version in August, promising “\u003ca href=\"https://openai.com/index/chatgpt-for-teens/\">stronger built-in safety protections\u003c/a>,” including alerts to parents when a teen discusses self-harm, a study mode parents can switch on, and a chatbot less likely to act like a friend. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The report’s central finding concerns safety notifications. Testers linked more than a dozen new teen accounts to parent accounts, then spent up to an hour describing suicidal thoughts, self-harm or disordered eating. The parents received no alerts. The only two notifications the testers got came from older accounts with weeks of conversation history on sensitive topics.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“A teen can spend an hour talking about self-harm without their parent getting a single alert,” Siegel said in a statement.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>OpenAI pushed back on that finding. According to an editorial note added to the report, OpenAI told the researchers that parent and teen accounts must be linked for about three hours before notifications can be sent, and the company has updated its help center to reflect this. The help center now said it “may take up to a few hours” after linking. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>OpenAI pushed back on that finding. According to an editorial note added to the report, OpenAI told the researchers that parent and teen accounts must be linked for about three hours before notifications can be sent, and the company has updated its help center to reflect this. The help center now said it “may take up to a few hours” after linking. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Common Sense said some of its test accounts had been linked for less than three hours and others for longer, but that it stands by its results. “Before we began testing, we confirmed with OpenAI that Teen mode features such as eating disorder notifications and study mode were fully launched,” wrote Robbie Torney, Senior Director of AI Programs at Common Sense Media. “This new information does not change our conclusion that parental alerts are unreliable for crisis situations.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Torney added that the testers’ results were shared with OpenAI prior to their public release “in good faith,” and that “We hope OpenAI will engage on the substance of what we found, rather than trying to sow doubt on our methodology.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>When it \u003ca href=\"http://www.kqed.org/news/12096019/openai-introduces-chatgpt-for-teens-promising-a-more-age-appropriate-chatbot\">launched the teen version\u003c/a>, OpenAI said human staff review flagged conversations before a parent is notified, and that it aims to notify parents within an hour.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“We welcome rigorous independent evaluation, but we do not believe Common Sense Media’s testing accurately reflects how ChatGPT’s teen safeguards work in practice or expert perspectives on how AI can support teens,” a spokesperson for OpenAI wrote in a statement. “Our review of Common Sense Media’s methodology shows that the bulk of their testing may have begun and concluded before activation of parental controls was complete, making their findings inaccurate.”\u003cbr>\u003cbr>“If that was the case, the tests would not establish whether parental safety notifications work as designed,” it added.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In \u003ca href=\"http://www.kqed.org/news/12048270/teens-under-the-influence-of-chatbots\">conversations involving mental health crises\u003c/a>, the institute found ChatGPT missed more than one in four referrals that the psychiatrists said were warranted. Before the launch, the share of responses naming a crisis hotline fell from 33% to 23% after it went live. On depression prompts, it fell from 63% to 3%.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>In \u003ca href=\"http://www.kqed.org/news/12048270/teens-under-the-influence-of-chatbots\">conversations involving mental health crises\u003c/a>, the institute found ChatGPT missed more than one in four referrals that the psychiatrists said were warranted. Before the launch, the share of responses naming a crisis hotline fell from 33% to 23% after it went live. On depression prompts, it fell from 63% to 3%.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The report also tested OpenAI’s age estimation system, which is supposed to recognize minors from how they use ChatGPT and move them into the teen version. Accounts registered to adults never switched over during many days of testing, even after testers said they were 13 and the chatbot acknowledged it.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The report also tested OpenAI’s age estimation system, which is supposed to recognize minors from how they use ChatGPT and move them into the teen version. Accounts registered to adults never switched over during many days of testing, even after testers said they were 13 and the chatbot acknowledged it.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The report gave OpenAI some credit. ChatGPT for Teens refused explicit sexual roleplay more consistently than before. When a 13-year-old’s account was linked to a parent with Study mode on, the chatbot \u003ca href=\"http://www.kqed.org/news/12053799/not-even-ai-can-save-me-students-teachers-on-ai-this-school-year\">completed full homework assignments\u003c/a> far less often after the launch; 18% of the time, compared with 70% before.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12038161\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Unlike digital assistants, companion chatbots are much more likely to veer into socially controversial and even illegal territory. A new report from Stanford University researchers and Common Sense Media argues that children and teens should not use these chatbots.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Jade Gao/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12038161\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Unlike digital assistants, companion chatbots are much more likely to veer into socially controversial and even illegal territory. A new report from Stanford University researchers and Common Sense Media argues that children and teens should not use these chatbots.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Jade Gao/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>But testers found the safeguards easy to undo. When a teen asks ChatGPT to complete an assignment, the teen version often offers a pop-up with the option “Show me the answer.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>For an unlinked 17-year-old in Study mode, it completed 88% of assignments after the launch, up from none before. Parents can set Study Hours by adding “@study” to the start of each message, but a teen can simply delete it. Testers also got around Quiet Hours by changing the time zone on the device.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>For an unlinked 17-year-old in Study mode, it completed 88% of assignments after the launch, up from none before. Parents can set Study Hours by adding “@study” to the start of each message, but a teen can simply delete it. Testers also got around Quiet Hours by changing the time zone on the device.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“I don’t call that circumvention. I just call it convenience,” Siegel said. “It’s right there for the child.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>OpenAI announced \u003ca href=\"https://openai.com/index/teens-learn-and-plan/\">new features\u003c/a> for ChatGPT for Teens on Wednesday, including a college planner to help with the college application process, as well as a new teen AI council in partnership with Boston Children’s Hospital’s Digital Wellness Lab. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>OpenAI is not the only AI developer with a teen-specific chatbot experience, although ChatGPT is the \u003ca href=\"https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2025/12/09/teens-social-media-and-ai-chatbots-2025/\">most popular with U.S. teens\u003c/a>. Google offers one for Gemini. Anthropic’s Claude is restricted to users 18 and older, as is Meta’s Muse, although Meta AI is \u003ca href=\"http://www.kqed.org/news/12094595/meta-faces-up-to-1-4-trillion-reckoning-as-youth-addiction-trial-opens-in-oakland\">available to teens\u003c/a> on Instagram. A 2025 Common Sense Media and Stanford assessment tested all four, \u003ca href=\"https://www.commonsensemedia.org/sites/default/files/featured-content/files/csm-ai-risk-assessment-mental-health-11142025.pdf\">rating\u003c/a> them “Unacceptable” for teen mental health support.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>OpenAI is not the only AI developer with a teen-specific chatbot experience, although ChatGPT is the \u003ca href=\"https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2025/12/09/teens-social-media-and-ai-chatbots-2025/\">most popular with U.S. teens\u003c/a>. Google offers one for Gemini. Anthropic’s Claude is restricted to users 18 and older, as is Meta’s Muse, although Meta AI is \u003ca href=\"http://www.kqed.org/news/12094595/meta-faces-up-to-1-4-trillion-reckoning-as-youth-addiction-trial-opens-in-oakland\">available to teens\u003c/a> on Instagram. A 2025 Common Sense Media and Stanford assessment tested all four, \u003ca href=\"https://www.commonsensemedia.org/sites/default/files/featured-content/files/csm-ai-risk-assessment-mental-health-11142025.pdf\">rating\u003c/a> them “Unacceptable” for teen mental health support.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“Right now, these chatbots are not ready for safe teen usage,” Siegel said, referring to Wednesday’s report. “I’m not saying this lightly, knowing how powerful it can be as a research tool and for fun. The dangers are just too big.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“Right now, these chatbots are not ready for safe teen usage,” Siegel said, referring to Wednesday’s report. “I’m not saying this lightly, knowing how powerful it can be as a research tool and for fun. The dangers are just too big.” \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The institute is asking OpenAI to pause marketing of ChatGPT to teens and to restrict it to adults until the company fixes the gaps and proves it through independent testing.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Until then, Common Sense said parents should discuss the risks of AI chatbots with their children, and not rely on built-in protections. Siegel still recommends that parents link their accounts.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“I still suggest using the parental mode, even though it’s flawed, because it is better than nothing,” he said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The Youth AI Institute is funded in part by the OpenAI Foundation, the nonprofit that controls OpenAI, along with Anthropic, Pinterest and several philanthropies. The foundation and OpenAI have also worked together on policy. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The Youth AI Institute is funded in part by the OpenAI Foundation, the nonprofit that controls OpenAI, along with Anthropic, Pinterest and several philanthropies. The foundation and OpenAI have also worked together on policy. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In January, they \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12069286/openai-and-common-sense-media-partner-on-new-kids-ai-safety-ballot-measure\">partnered on a California ballot measure\u003c/a> on kids’ AI safety, then paused it in February to negotiate with state lawmakers instead. Common Sense said it keeps full editorial control over its findings.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>In January, they \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12069286/openai-and-common-sense-media-partner-on-new-kids-ai-safety-ballot-measure\">partnered on a California ballot measure\u003c/a> on kids’ AI safety, then paused it in February to negotiate with state lawmakers instead. Common Sense said it keeps full editorial control over its findings.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“They’re the one that created the problems,” Siegel said of OpenAI. “Why shouldn’t they help fund it?”\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "Common Sense Media's Youth AI Safety Institute rated OpenAI's new teen version of ChatGPT an “Unacceptable Risk.” OpenAI disputes the institute’s findings.\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This article discusses suicide. If you are experiencing thoughts of suicide, call or text 988 to reach the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Common Sense Media’s Youth AI Safety Institute has rated ChatGPT for Teens as an \u003ca href=\"https://institute.commonsensemedia.org/risk-assessments/chatgpt-teens\">“Unacceptable Risk” for everyone under 18\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/openai\">OpenAI\u003c/a> launched the teen version in August, promising “\u003ca href=\"https://openai.com/index/chatgpt-for-teens/\">stronger built-in safety protections\u003c/a>,” including alerts to parents when a teen discusses self-harm, a study mode parents can switch on, and a chatbot less likely to act like a friend. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“If our system estimates someone is under 18 or they state their age is between 13 and 17, they are automatically placed into ChatGPT for Teens,” the announcement said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The institute tested the product before and after the launch, running more than 4,000 prompts on accounts registered to 13- to 17-year-olds. Child psychiatrists and a pediatrician reviewed the responses.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“We were actually hoping and expecting to see big improvements across the board based on that announcement,” said Tom Siegel, the institute’s executive director and a former Google trust and safety executive. “It didn’t, unfortunately, work out that way at all.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/ChatGPTGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-11998856\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/ChatGPTGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/ChatGPTGetty-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/ChatGPTGetty-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/ChatGPTGetty-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/ChatGPTGetty-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/ChatGPTGetty-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">In conversations involving mental health crises, the institute found ChatGPT missed more than one in four referrals that the psychiatrists said were warranted. (Jaque Silva/SOPA Images/LightRocket via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The report’s central finding concerns safety notifications. Testers linked more than a dozen new teen accounts to parent accounts, then spent up to an hour describing suicidal thoughts, self-harm or disordered eating. The parents received no alerts. The only two notifications the testers got came from older accounts with weeks of conversation history on sensitive topics.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“A teen can spend an hour talking about self-harm without their parent getting a single alert,” Siegel said in a statement.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>OpenAI pushed back on that finding. According to an editorial note added to the report, OpenAI told the researchers that parent and teen accounts must be linked for about three hours before notifications can be sent, and the company has updated its help center to reflect this. The help center now said it “may take up to a few hours” after linking. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Common Sense said some of its test accounts had been linked for less than three hours and others for longer, but that it stands by its results. “Before we began testing, we confirmed with OpenAI that Teen mode features such as eating disorder notifications and study mode were fully launched,” wrote Robbie Torney, Senior Director of AI Programs at Common Sense Media. “This new information does not change our conclusion that parental alerts are unreliable for crisis situations.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Torney added that the testers’ results were shared with OpenAI prior to their public release “in good faith,” and that “We hope OpenAI will engage on the substance of what we found, rather than trying to sow doubt on our methodology.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>When it \u003ca href=\"http://www.kqed.org/news/12096019/openai-introduces-chatgpt-for-teens-promising-a-more-age-appropriate-chatbot\">launched the teen version\u003c/a>, OpenAI said human staff review flagged conversations before a parent is notified, and that it aims to notify parents within an hour.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“We welcome rigorous independent evaluation, but we do not believe Common Sense Media’s testing accurately reflects how ChatGPT’s teen safeguards work in practice or expert perspectives on how AI can support teens,” a spokesperson for OpenAI wrote in a statement. “Our review of Common Sense Media’s methodology shows that the bulk of their testing may have begun and concluded before activation of parental controls was complete, making their findings inaccurate.”\u003cbr>\u003cbr>“If that was the case, the tests would not establish whether parental safety notifications work as designed,” it added.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In \u003ca href=\"http://www.kqed.org/news/12048270/teens-under-the-influence-of-chatbots\">conversations involving mental health crises\u003c/a>, the institute found ChatGPT missed more than one in four referrals that the psychiatrists said were warranted. Before the launch, the share of responses naming a crisis hotline fell from 33% to 23% after it went live. On depression prompts, it fell from 63% to 3%.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The report also tested OpenAI’s age estimation system, which is supposed to recognize minors from how they use ChatGPT and move them into the teen version. Accounts registered to adults never switched over during many days of testing, even after testers said they were 13 and the chatbot acknowledged it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The report gave OpenAI some credit. ChatGPT for Teens refused explicit sexual roleplay more consistently than before. When a 13-year-old’s account was linked to a parent with Study mode on, the chatbot \u003ca href=\"http://www.kqed.org/news/12053799/not-even-ai-can-save-me-students-teachers-on-ai-this-school-year\">completed full homework assignments\u003c/a> far less often after the launch; 18% of the time, compared with 70% before.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12038161\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Unlike digital assistants, companion chatbots are much more likely to veer into socially controversial and even illegal territory. A new report from Stanford University researchers and Common Sense Media argues that children and teens should not use these chatbots. (Jade Gao/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>But testers found the safeguards easy to undo. When a teen asks ChatGPT to complete an assignment, the teen version often offers a pop-up with the option “Show me the answer.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>OpenAI has described the pop-up as giving teens agency over how they learn.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>For an unlinked 17-year-old in Study mode, it completed 88% of assignments after the launch, up from none before. Parents can set Study Hours by adding “@study” to the start of each message, but a teen can simply delete it. Testers also got around Quiet Hours by changing the time zone on the device.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“I don’t call that circumvention. I just call it convenience,” Siegel said. “It’s right there for the child.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>OpenAI announced \u003ca href=\"https://openai.com/index/teens-learn-and-plan/\">new features\u003c/a> for ChatGPT for Teens on Wednesday, including a college planner to help with the college application process, as well as a new teen AI council in partnership with Boston Children’s Hospital’s Digital Wellness Lab. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">An industry-wide issue\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>OpenAI is not the only AI developer with a teen-specific chatbot experience, although ChatGPT is the \u003ca href=\"https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2025/12/09/teens-social-media-and-ai-chatbots-2025/\">most popular with U.S. teens\u003c/a>. Google offers one for Gemini. Anthropic’s Claude is restricted to users 18 and older, as is Meta’s Muse, although Meta AI is \u003ca href=\"http://www.kqed.org/news/12094595/meta-faces-up-to-1-4-trillion-reckoning-as-youth-addiction-trial-opens-in-oakland\">available to teens\u003c/a> on Instagram. A 2025 Common Sense Media and Stanford assessment tested all four, \u003ca href=\"https://www.commonsensemedia.org/sites/default/files/featured-content/files/csm-ai-risk-assessment-mental-health-11142025.pdf\">rating\u003c/a> them “Unacceptable” for teen mental health support.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“Right now, these chatbots are not ready for safe teen usage,” Siegel said, referring to Wednesday’s report. “I’m not saying this lightly, knowing how powerful it can be as a research tool and for fun. The dangers are just too big.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The institute is asking OpenAI to pause marketing of ChatGPT to teens and to restrict it to adults until the company fixes the gaps and proves it through independent testing.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Until then, Common Sense said parents should discuss the risks of AI chatbots with their children, and not rely on built-in protections. Siegel still recommends that parents link their accounts.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“I still suggest using the parental mode, even though it’s flawed, because it is better than nothing,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The Youth AI Institute is funded in part by the OpenAI Foundation, the nonprofit that controls OpenAI, along with Anthropic, Pinterest and several philanthropies. The foundation and OpenAI have also worked together on policy. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In January, they \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12069286/openai-and-common-sense-media-partner-on-new-kids-ai-safety-ballot-measure\">partnered on a California ballot measure\u003c/a> on kids’ AI safety, then paused it in February to negotiate with state lawmakers instead. Common Sense said it keeps full editorial control over its findings.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“They’re the one that created the problems,” Siegel said of OpenAI. “Why shouldn’t they help fund it?”\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "She Killed Her Children. Can We Forgive Her?",
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"headTitle": "She Killed Her Children. Can We Forgive Her? | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cem>Editor’s note: This story was originally published in February 2020 and was republished when the 2026 trial of Lindsay Clancy in Plymouth, Mass. reignited a long-running debate about how the legal system interprets postpartum psychosis and handles cases of women like Clancy and Coronado who kill their children.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Years later, Rudy Coronado still refers to what happened as “that day.” He thinks about what he said, what he didn’t say and what he wishes he could take back. The signs he missed – and the signs he saw, but ignored.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That day, Carol was acting kind of weird,” he stammered. “She was just different.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Not different the way his wife was usually different, the traits that charmed Rudy when they first met at a doughnut shop in Carson: her simple, no makeup, no celebrity gossip style; her book-loving, hard-working focus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12098278\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/02/GettyImages-567386861-e1788460092156.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12098278 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/02/GettyImages-567386861-e1788460092156.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" />\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Family and friends gather around Rudy Coronado, second from left, the father of the slain girls, as he speaks to media after the arraignment hearing for his wife, Carol Coronado at the Compton courthouse, Thursday, May 29, 2014. Carol Coronado has been charged with killing her three young children at their home in an unincorporated area near Carson.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Not quirky, the way she was quirky, separating the rice and beans and vegetables on her plate, and always eating one thing first.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Not precise and meticulous, the way she learned to be in the military and then later applied to motherhood, keeping spreadsheets on all the daily activities of their three daughters: Sophia, 2, Yazmine, 1, and Xenia, 3 months.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Every time she breast fed, every bottle she gave them – everything was documented,” Rudy said. “Every time they pooped, how they pooped, everything. Everything.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That day, May 20, 2014, was different. Carol seemed to wake up in a panic. She called her mom over and over, leaving one desperate message after another: “Mommy, please call me. Please — Please — Please. I’m tired. I’m exhausted. I’m hungry,” she said, crying and rambling until the voicemail system cut her off four times in a row.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By the sixth message, Carol sounded spent: “Mom. Please call me. I love you. Bye.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By the afternoon, Carol was barely saying anything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Rudy came inside after working on his ’68 Chevy truck across the street from their home in Torrance, Sophia was running around with no diaper on. There was poop on the carpet, poop on the walls, poop on her hands. Carol was lying on the bed. Her eyes were blank, black.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rudy started yelling. And that’s when he said the thing he wishes he hadn’t.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was like, ‘Carol – to what extreme is this going to get to?’ And I regret telling her that,” he said. “Because I don’t know if that’s what kind of sparked her to do something dumb? To do that?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rudy went back outside. He was working on his truck when Carol’s mom came over after her shift driving a local school bus. She went into the house, then ran out, screaming.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>All three girls were dead. Carol had taken a knife from the kitchen and stabbed them each in the throat and through the heart. Then she laid them on the bed, in order from youngest to oldest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“At first glance, it was weird, ’cause I didn’t see no blood. I don’t remember seeing blood. So when I walked up and I touched Sophie, she was cold,” he recalled, his voice catching. “I was like, ‘What’d you do?’ I couldn’t believe my eyes.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Carol looked at Rudy and told him she loved him. Then she pushed the knife into her own chest.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>The Victim or the Monster?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Carol did not die that day. If she had, perhaps she would have been mourned, alongside her daughters, as one of the victims of an inexplicable tragedy. But her survival meant that day would have to be explained — in court, by prosecutors, who would cast Carol as a criminal, driven by revenge, and deserving of society’s harshest judgment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote size='medium' align='right' citation='Carol Coronado, the day she killed her three daughters']‘Mommy, please call me. Please — Please — Please. I’m tired. I’m exhausted.’[/pullquote]Even though several psychiatrists testified that Carol was suffering from postpartum psychosis, a severe mental illness triggered by childbirth, the judge would set that evidence aside: The law used to evaluate these cases was written a century before any doctor had uttered such a diagnosis, and the web of clinical symptoms simply doesn’t fit the legal test for insanity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In California, more than 100 women are in prison for killing their children, data analysis by KQED shows. The state prison system doesn’t track these numbers, so KQED reviewed thousands of court records and news reports to calculate them. Forty percent of these women took their baby’s life before they were a year old. Seventy percent of those women are serving life sentences.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This doesn’t happen in other developed countries. \u003ca href=\"http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo6/1-2/36/section/1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">England\u003c/a>, Canada, Australia, Japan, Brazil, Sweden and \u003ca href=\"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2174580/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">more than a dozen other nations\u003c/a> have specific laws for these cases. Most are modeled after Britain’s Infanticide Act, which says if a woman harms her child within a year of giving birth, it is presumed she suffered from a postpartum mental illness. She is often sentenced to treatment, not incarceration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s an assumption that something was off,” said Diana Lynn Barnes, a psychotherapist in Southern California who frequently serves as an expert witness in infanticide cases. “Most of the time these women are found guilty of manslaughter, and in many cases they don’t even go to prison.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A few states have pushed for similar laws to allow judges to reconsider and lower harsh sentences with evidence of postpartum mental illness in mind. Only one succeeded: \u003ca href=\"http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publicacts/fulltext.asp?Name=100-0574\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Illinois\u003c/a> in 2018. When California advocates broached the topic that same year, they said lawmakers told them, “No, not now.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Without a uniform standard for these cases in the U.S., judgments have been \u003ca href=\"https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1060&context=uclf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">arbitrary and variable\u003c/a>, from life without parole to probation, often depending on the sympathies of the judge or jury. Most courts continue to view women who harm their children the same as trained assassins, experts say.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Carol Coronado was charged with three counts of first-degree murder. The Los Angeles County District Attorney’s Office considered \u003ca href=\"https://www.dailybreeze.com/2014/05/23/mother-charged-in-daughters-murders-near-carson-could-face-death-penalty/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">seeking the death penalty\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/02/postpartumfinal3.png\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-11800379\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/02/postpartumfinal3.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1447\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/02/postpartumfinal3.png 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/02/postpartumfinal3-160x121.png 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/02/postpartumfinal3-800x603.png 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/02/postpartumfinal3-1020x769.png 1020w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\" />\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>‘It Was the Disease’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The first time Rudy and Carol Coronado ever heard of postpartum psychosis was after Carol was taken to jail.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Doctors later told them that Carol’s break from reality was caused by hormonal changes from her last pregnancy, lack of sleep and the relentless cycle of breastfeeding and caring for three babies under three. \u003ca href=\"https://repository.jmls.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1325&context=lawreview\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Two-thirds of women\u003c/a> who kill their children following childbirth suffer from postpartum psychosis, a 2000 study found.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Everybody who saw her, all of the doctors, within hours and days of this event found that she had some kind of a psychotic disorder,” said Barnes, the expert witness in Carol’s case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Carol’s bizarre behavior, her confusion and detachment, she said, these are all symptoms of postpartum psychosis — and they can develop without warning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She will look disheveled, not just unkempt, but disheveled. She’ll start to look glazed over,” Barnes said. “She may be looking around as though she’s taking things in from the environment that may or may not be there.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rudy finally had an explanation for Carol’s sudden change in behavior.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was thinking like a demon possessed her or something because her eyes went black,” he said. “Now I know that it was the disease.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s what frustrates Rudy now — knowing there’s treatment that could have cleared Carol’s symptoms and prevented what happened that day. If he had only known what he was seeing and what else to look for.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote size='medium' align='right' citation='Psychotherapist Diana Lynn Barnes, the expert witness in Carol’s case']‘Everybody who saw her, all of the doctors, within hours and days of this event found that she had some kind of a psychotic disorder.’[/pullquote]Postpartum psychosis affects \u003ca href=\"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3109493/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">one to two moms\u003c/a> out of 1,000 births, but many reproductive psychiatrists believe that is an \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11710961/she-strived-to-be-the-perfect-mom-and-landed-in-the-psych-ward\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">underestimate\u003c/a> because the symptoms are easy to miss, and the doctors who most often see new moms are not trained to recognize them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Postpartum psychosis often presents with delirium-type symptoms, mainly confusion and disorganized thoughts and not classic hallucinations or paranoia,” said Nirmaljit Dhami, a reproductive psychiatrist in Mountain View. “And the symptoms wax and wane. I had one patient who was confused at times and very clear at other times.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Women with postpartum psychosis often experience a mood disturbance, too, either mania or depression. Carol’s lawyer argued she was depressed, but that her doctors missed that, too. Her primary care doctor, Bijan Ghatan, testified at her trial that Carol didn’t “seem depressed” to him, when he saw her six days before the deaths.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She was her usual jovial self,” Ghatan said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This was 2014, four years before the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists \u003ca href=\"https://www.acog.org/Clinical-Guidance-and-Publications/Committee-Opinions/Committee-on-Obstetric-Practice/Screening-for-Perinatal-Depression\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">rewrote its guidelines\u003c/a> to recommend doctors administer a formal screening test for postpartum depression, and five years before \u003ca href=\"http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billCompareClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180AB2193\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">California law\u003c/a> made the test \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/stateofhealth/362521/woman-seeks-help-for-post-partum-depression-the-nurse-calls-the-cops\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">mandatory\u003c/a>. So Carol’s doctor said he didn’t do one. He said Carol didn’t seem depressed, so he didn’t ask.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When we enter an exam room, we always say, ‘Hey, you look great! Look at the baby! Yay!’ ” said Torie Sepah, a reproductive psychiatrist who has delivered many babies over many years in family practice. “That leaves no room for the mom to not be doing great. To say, ‘Actually, I’m really miserable.’ ”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Women are conditioned to act like they’re happy and have it together, Sepah said. To admit otherwise might invite others to believe she’s a bad mom, or, worst of all, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/stateofhealth/362521/woman-seeks-help-for-post-partum-depression-the-nurse-calls-the-cops\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">trigger a call\u003c/a> to a government agency that might take the baby away. That’s why testing is now required for all new moms, she said, no matter how they present in the doctor’s office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To Sepah, who treated Carol at a Los Angeles jail in the days after her daughters’ deaths, there is no doubt she had postpartum psychosis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even before the children were killed, Sepah said, there were clinical signs that something was off, in particular, Carol’s weight loss: She weighed less after having her third baby than she did before getting pregnant with her first.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11800227\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11800227\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/postpartum-psychosis_hospital_Carol-Coronado-qut-800x610.jpg\" alt=\"After Carol Coronado was arrested, she was taken to a hospital where she was treated for self-inflicted stab wounds and given anti-psychotic medication.\" width=\"800\" height=\"610\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/postpartum-psychosis_hospital_Carol-Coronado-qut-800x610.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/postpartum-psychosis_hospital_Carol-Coronado-qut-160x122.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/postpartum-psychosis_hospital_Carol-Coronado-qut-1020x778.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/postpartum-psychosis_hospital_Carol-Coronado-qut.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">After Carol Coronado was arrested, she was taken to a hospital where she was treated for self-inflicted stab wounds and given anti-psychotic medication. \u003ccite>(Evidence file/Compton Courthouse)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>What Carol Remembers\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>That day, Carol was treated briefly in the hospital for a punctured lung, then taken straight to jail. She was on suicide watch for the next 21 months.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That whole time, Carol says she didn’t know what was going on or what had happened. The scar, from plunging the knife into her chest? She had no idea how it got there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote size='medium' align='right' citation='Rudy Coronado']‘I was thinking like a demon possessed her or something because her eyes went black. Now I know that it was the disease.’[/pullquote]It’s common for people not to remember what happened during a psychotic episode, said Dr. Sepah. Cognitive pathways short circuit and synapses stop firing correctly: “Instead of going A, B, C, they’re going A, D, G,” she said. Those kinds of thought patterns are too disorganized for memories to form.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Carol says her memories stop about a week before the killings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That’s about the time my brain began to stutter and shut off, memory-wise. Before it completely broke,” she says over a scratchy phone connection from prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She does remember having nightmares.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was terrified to go to sleep. I wasn’t showering, taking a bath, brushing my teeth. I wasn’t eating. I wasn’t doing anything.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She couldn’t concentrate. She put socks away in the fridge and milk in the dresser. She felt overwhelmed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Like I was worthless, helpless, hopeless and I’d be better off dead,” she says. “That nobody needed me. That I was nothing.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Legal Insanity: The Twinkie Defense to Today\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Carol was not much help to her defense attorney. At the time, she did not have the insight into her feelings that she is beginning to have now, five years later.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Her lawyer’s strategy was an insanity defense. And here the odds were against them: Less than 1% of criminal cases end with a successful insanity defense, according to \u003ca href=\"https://www.researchgate.net/publication/21370218_The_Volume_and_Characteristics_of_Insanity_Defense_Pleas_An_Eight-State_Study\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">a seminal study\u003c/a> from 1991.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s a very, very hard defense to make,” said Michelle Oberman, a law professor at Santa Clara University School of Law. “It almost never works in postpartum mental health defenses.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is because of what happened in 1981, when John Hinckley Jr. fired multiple gunshots in his attempt to assassinate President Ronald Reagan. Hinckley, 25, said he was in love with actress Jodie Foster, and he was convinced that she would fall in love with him if he killed the president.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Psychiatrists said Hinckley had schizophrenia and the jury found him not guilty by reason of insanity. He spent the next 30 years in a psychiatric hospital.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Americans were outraged: The day after the verdict, \u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0879235330/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_taft_p1_i3\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">83% said justice\u003c/a> had not been done. Lawmakers from 38 states rewrote their insanity laws to ensure that another Hinckley “would not get off.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote size='medium' align='right' citation='Michelle Oberman, law professor at Santa Clara University School of Law']‘The test for proving insanity is so out of keeping with the way that we understand how the mind works.’[/pullquote]One of them was \u003ca href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_California_Proposition_8\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">California\u003c/a>. The state had its own version of the Hinckley case a few years earlier in 1978, when Dan White climbed through a window into San Francisco City Hall and shot and killed Mayor George Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>White’s lawyer argued what would from then on be remembered as the infamous “Twinkie defense.” He said White suffered from depression, which made him periodically obsessed with junk food, and which compromised his capacity to understand or control what he was doing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The jury found White guilty of manslaughter, rather than murder, and sentenced him to eight years in prison. San Francisco erupted in riots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After this, just when the jury delivered the Hinckley verdict, California voters passed a tough-on-crime measure that included an overhaul of the state’s insanity defense law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California is one of \u003ca href=\"https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-procedure/the-insanity-defense-among-the-states.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">25 states\u003c/a> that now uses a strict legal test for insanity established in 1843. It’s focused on whether a person knows the difference between right and wrong — it’s a moral test, not a clinical one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The test for proving insanity is so out of keeping with the way that we understand how the mind works,” law professor Michelle Oberman said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And it completely ignores the \u003ca href=\"https://via.library.depaul.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1152&context=jhcl\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">risk factors\u003c/a> researchers now know are associated with infanticide: isolation and shame. These moms spend long hours alone with their kids with little to no help, Oberman said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Like a lot of moms, they start to feel like a failure, like a bad mom. But with psychosis in the mix, this belief becomes a full-on delusion. Up to \u003ca href=\"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2174580/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">29% of moms\u003c/a> who kill their kids also kill themselves, and even more attempt suicide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They start to believe that their children would be better off with them in heaven,” Oberman said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11800241\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11800241\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/postpartum-psychosis-postpartum-depression-coronado-house-800x609.png\" alt=\"Outside the home of Carol and Rudy Coronado after she killed the couple's three daughters.\" width=\"800\" height=\"609\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/postpartum-psychosis-postpartum-depression-coronado-house-800x609.png 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/postpartum-psychosis-postpartum-depression-coronado-house-160x122.png 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/postpartum-psychosis-postpartum-depression-coronado-house.png 978w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Outside the home of Carol and Rudy Coronado after she killed the couple’s three daughters. \u003ccite>(Evidence file/Compton Courthouse)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>The Trial\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>When Carol Coronado went on trial in 2015, she said she couldn’t remember anything from the day her daughters died. And even though this is common with psychotic episodes, it was the biggest weakness in her legal defense.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To be found insane, Carol would have to prove that she didn’t know what she was doing was wrong.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Carol says she didn’t know what she was doing at all. She had no explanation for why she did what she did — even a psychotic explanation that her babies would be better off in heaven.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote size='medium' align='right' citation='Carol Coronado']‘I literally kept looking for my children, having delusions that they were on the other side of that door, that they were going to walk in at any moment and I would be able to hold them .’[/pullquote]The prosecutor, Emily Spear, exploited this weakness at every turn, filling the void in Carol’s memory with her own narrative of what happened. She said Carol’s motive was revenge. She said Rudy was a jerk, leaving Carol in charge of three little girls with no help. She said Carol had had enough that day and decided to get back at Rudy by killing their daughters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The marriage was not a good one,” Spear said during her opening statement. “Finances were very, very tough.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This was a crime of rage, of desperation, but not delusion, she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Spear interpreted all of Carol’s actions from that day according to this revenge narrative. She framed each move as a premeditated moral failing — while the defense reframed everything as a clinical symptom of psychosis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The prosecutor pointed to statements Carol gave to a detective hours after she was arrested, when he asked her if she killed her children to “get back at her husband.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She said: “If that’s true, do I get a better deal?” When the detective asked her, “What do you need from us in order to tell us what happened?” Carol responded: “Bedpan.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“A psychotic mind has a logic all its own,” said defense expert witness Diana Lynn Barnes. “The state is attempting to use rational, logical thought to explain psychosis, which is illogical and delusional.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is the thing about postpartum psychosis that most often gets confused in court, she added: the way the symptoms wax and wane.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Because if one moment I’m telling you something, but then in the next moment I can’t remember what I just did – that kind of looks like I’m faking it,” Barnes said. “But it’s actually the clinical presentation of postpartum psychosis.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Calm, Just Like Me\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>When Carol came into the visiting room at the Central California Women’s Facility in Chowchilla, she looked — four years after the trial — as she did in the courtroom shot of her that ran in the paper over and over: straight brown hair, a little greasy; pale skin and no makeup.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote size='medium' align='right' citation='Defense expert witness, Diana Lynn Barnes']‘A psychotic mind has a logic all its own. The state is attempting to use rational, logical thought to explain psychosis, which is illogical and delusional.’[/pullquote]Carol is getting some treatment here, but it’s hard to tell if it’s working. Conversation with her jumped around. She easily veered off on tangents. Sometimes she said things that didn’t make sense. On other topics, she went deep into detail.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Like the last time her family went to the beach together. Rudy and Sophie went straight for the ocean. But Yazi stayed with Carol. She liked to run her little rake through the sand, look at the lines, then wipe them flat and do it again. Sophie is just like Rudy, social and playful. Yazi is Zen, calm. Just like me, she says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some of these stories about the girls still come out in the present tense. Throughout her trial, Carol said she thought her children were still alive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I literally kept looking for my children, having delusions that they were on the other side of that door, that they were going to walk in at any moment and I would be able to hold them,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When her family called her in prison and Carol asked after the girls, her mother just said they were “gone.” Rudy said they were “safe.” Carol figured they were at their godparents’ house or her sister’s house.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was her lawyer who told her what happened. The specifics.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I flipped out. I became hysterical and inconsolable. I was screaming,” Carol said. “I did not believe it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What Carol’s case came down to was what the judge believed. She opted for a bench trial, deciding not to take her chances on a jury.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the end, the judge said he thought Carol did suffer from a mental health condition. He said he believed she needed treatment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But the insanity law is the law. He said she would have to get treatment in prison. He sentenced her to three consecutive life sentences. No parole.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>A Successful Insanity Defense\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Angela Burling once stood before a judge like Carol did, after she killed her son. There were a lot of similarities between Angela’s case and Carol’s, except the outcome: One went to prison, and the other went home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I couldn’t have been more fortunate,” Angela said from her home outside Sacramento.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 1983, nine months after Angela gave birth to her second child, Michael, she stopped breastfeeding him abruptly, rather than weaning him gradually as doctors now recommend. She started having strange thoughts.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I felt I had a calling to expunge the world of evil,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She began to believe her husband, Jeff, was Jesus. She was the bride of Christ. And her baby Michael, was the devil.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I felt I needed to drown Michael,” she said. “But then I thought, ‘He’ll come back to life. Jeff will raise him from the dead in three days. Then the world will know: Jeff is Jesus and peace will reign.’ So that’s what I did. I drowned him.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This was the thing that made the difference in Angela’s case – her account of what happened fit the strict legal test for insanity. She believed her son was the devil and that killing him was the right thing to do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The judge found her not guilty by reason of insanity. He sentenced her to outpatient treatment, meaning Angela could go home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Angela recovered. The psychosis went away and Angela has since been doing well taking regular medication for bipolar disorder – doctors now understand women with the disorder have a \u003ca href=\"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3109493/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">30% likelihood\u003c/a> of experiencing postpartum psychosis. Women who have had postpartum psychosis with one pregnancy have a \u003ca href=\"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23651079\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">50% chance\u003c/a> of having it again with a subsequent pregnancy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote size='medium' align='right' citation='Angela Burling, who drowned her son while suffering from postpartum psychosis']‘I make a case for understanding how it can happen to anybody. I could be your sister, or your daughter, or your wife.’[/pullquote]So when Angela became pregnant with her third child, she put together a team of top-notch psychiatric providers to be on call. In their care, she was sure the psychosis would not come back, and even if it did, she was certain no harm would come to her baby.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When I found out I was pregnant, I was the happiest woman on earth,” she said. “Because I felt like, I have another chance – to raise another baby. And prove I’m a good mom.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She went back to school for her master’s degree in nursing, and when her first marriage frayed under the tensions of what happened, she remarried. She and her second husband have been together for 25 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I feel like what happened to me is what should happen to other women in my situation,” said Angela, now 64. “I make a case for understanding how it can happen to anybody. I could be your sister, or your daughter, or your wife.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Angela believes the way to level the field for all women is for California to adopt a law similar to Britain’s \u003ca href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanticide_Act_1938\">Infanticide Act\u003c/a>, which says any woman who kills her baby is presumed to be mentally ill and faces a maximum charge of manslaughter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Back in 1989, a California senator was so moved by Angela’s story that \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6769000-Senate-Resolution-23-Complete-Apr-4.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">he recommended California adopt a version of this law\u003c/a>. But it never went anywhere.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was a pretty bold resolution,” she said. “I don’t know if society was ready for it then.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Illinois, the one state that has managed to make a small change, now allows judges to give women lower sentences if postpartum mental illness was a factor in her baby’s death. For women already convicted, they could get a new hearing and a reduced sentence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It is the first criminal statute in the U.S. that mentions postpartum psychosis by name. Advocates in Massachusetts, Connecticut and New York are considering a similar law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If California were to follow suit, KQED’s data analysis shows more than 40 women currently in prison could have their cases reheard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We can’t fail these moms twice,” said Joy Burkhard, executive director of \u003ca href=\"https://www.2020mom.org/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">2020 Mom\u003c/a>, an advocacy group seeking a sponsor for a similar law in California. “They’re failed by the health care system, then again by the legal system.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11800250\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11800250\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Rudy-Coronado-3-reading-letter-qut-800x600.jpg\" alt=\"Rudy Coronado reading a letter from Carol.\" width=\"800\" height=\"600\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Rudy-Coronado-3-reading-letter-qut-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Rudy-Coronado-3-reading-letter-qut-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Rudy-Coronado-3-reading-letter-qut-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Rudy-Coronado-3-reading-letter-qut.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Rudy-Coronado-3-reading-letter-qut-1832x1374.jpg 1832w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Rudy-Coronado-3-reading-letter-qut-1376x1032.jpg 1376w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Rudy-Coronado-3-reading-letter-qut-1044x783.jpg 1044w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Rudy-Coronado-3-reading-letter-qut-632x474.jpg 632w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Rudy-Coronado-3-reading-letter-qut-536x402.jpg 536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Rudy Coronado reading a letter from Carol at his home in October 2018. \u003ccite>(April Dembosky/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>‘Speak to the Dads’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Rudy Coronado packs up oil, anti-freeze and wiper blades from his stall at the Alpine Village flea market in Los Angeles. He’s been selling auto parts here since his girls were born, about eight years ago.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I used to want to get rich, to leave something for my daughters. That was my fire, that was my fuel,” said Rudy, now 41. “Now, my fire is gone.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He still feels guilty that he didn’t know what was happening to Carol. He still thinks about the way he talked to her or if there was something he could have done to stop it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote size='medium' align='right' citation='Joy Burkhard, executive director of 2020 Mom']‘We can’t fail these moms twice. They’re failed by the health care system, then again by the legal system.’[/pullquote]So when women’s health advocates asked him for help, he said yes. He always says yes. He speaks at rallies and forums and in the state Legislature. His testimony helped pass a package of laws in 2018, including the one requiring mandatory screening of new moms for postpartum mental illness.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hospitals now also have to \u003ca href=\"http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billCompareClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180AB3032\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">train staff\u003c/a> how to recognize symptoms, and the state is \u003ca href=\"http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180AB1893\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">applying for more federal money\u003c/a> to do more outreach to families.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I always make it an issue to go and speak to the dads,” Rudy said of his public appearances. “Because no one never talks to the dads.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He tells them: Postpartum mental illness is real. Look for it. Research it. Don’t confuse it with “baby mama drama.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This is a famous thing,” Rudy explained. ” ‘Aw, my baby mama’s trippin.’ Now I tell them, ‘Your baby mama is not trippin. Your baby mama’s going through it.’ ”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The work has helped him to understand what happened to Carol that day, but not necessarily to forgive her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The way I think about it, like, I blame the disease, not Carol,” he said. “It’s not that I forgive Carol. I’ve kind of, somehow, not really blamed her.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11800253\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11800253\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Carol-drawing-close-up-qut-800x600.jpg\" alt=\"Rudy Coronado reading a letter from Carol.\" width=\"800\" height=\"600\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Carol-drawing-close-up-qut-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Carol-drawing-close-up-qut-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Carol-drawing-close-up-qut-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Carol-drawing-close-up-qut.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Carol-drawing-close-up-qut-1832x1374.jpg 1832w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Carol-drawing-close-up-qut-1376x1032.jpg 1376w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Carol-drawing-close-up-qut-1044x783.jpg 1044w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Carol-drawing-close-up-qut-632x474.jpg 632w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Carol-drawing-close-up-qut-536x402.jpg 536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Rudy Coronado shows a drawing that Carol sent to him from prison in November 2017. \u003ccite>(April Dembosky/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>‘Should Have Been in a Hospital’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Last October, the Saturday before Carol’s 36th birthday, her parents, David and Julie Piercey, got up at 4 a.m. and drove their Dodge minivan five hours north from Los Angeles to the prison in Chowchilla.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the visiting room with Carol, they didn’t say much. They just played round after round of dominoes. Later in the parking lot, they both said Carol doesn’t belong here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She had no business going to prison,” her dad said. “She should have been in a hospital, period.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s all they wanted from an insanity defense, for Carol to go to a place where she could get real treatment. Not a place where she says other inmates beat her up and call her a baby killer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Her parents said Carol still says things that don’t make sense.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She tells us, ‘I’m going to be getting out in a couple of weeks or three weeks or a month,’ ” David said. “It’s heart-wrenching because I know it’s never going to happen.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Her dad can’t bring himself to say anything in response. Her mom can’t help but say something.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>” ‘OK Carol. I’ll be happy when you get out, sweetheart!’ ” she said. ” ‘Mama’s waiting for you.’ ”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=news_11710961,news_11744174,news_362521]These conversations are too hard for Rudy. He doesn’t visit Carol anymore. He hasn’t talked to her on the phone in three years. He said she’s not the same person.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Carol still writes to Rudy. He has stacks and stacks of her letters. But he stopped reading those, too. He said she never mentions what happened. She never writes about the girls.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She doesn’t even write their names. Just draws cryptic images of threes: three pumpkins, three stars. Three hearts with three letters inside, the girls’ initials: S, Y, X.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>April Dembosky is a health correspondent at KQED public radio and The California Report. She is also a recipient of a Rosalynn Carter Fellowship for Mental Health Journalism.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>KQED’s Kate Wolffe contributed research for this story.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>Editor’s note: This story was originally published in February 2020 and was republished when the 2026 trial of Lindsay Clancy in Plymouth, Mass. reignited a long-running debate about how the legal system interprets postpartum psychosis and handles cases of women like Clancy and Coronado who kill their children.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Years later, Rudy Coronado still refers to what happened as “that day.” He thinks about what he said, what he didn’t say and what he wishes he could take back. The signs he missed – and the signs he saw, but ignored.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That day, Carol was acting kind of weird,” he stammered. “She was just different.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Not different the way his wife was usually different, the traits that charmed Rudy when they first met at a doughnut shop in Carson: her simple, no makeup, no celebrity gossip style; her book-loving, hard-working focus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12098278\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/02/GettyImages-567386861-e1788460092156.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12098278 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/02/GettyImages-567386861-e1788460092156.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" />\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Family and friends gather around Rudy Coronado, second from left, the father of the slain girls, as he speaks to media after the arraignment hearing for his wife, Carol Coronado at the Compton courthouse, Thursday, May 29, 2014. Carol Coronado has been charged with killing her three young children at their home in an unincorporated area near Carson.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Not quirky, the way she was quirky, separating the rice and beans and vegetables on her plate, and always eating one thing first.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Not precise and meticulous, the way she learned to be in the military and then later applied to motherhood, keeping spreadsheets on all the daily activities of their three daughters: Sophia, 2, Yazmine, 1, and Xenia, 3 months.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Every time she breast fed, every bottle she gave them – everything was documented,” Rudy said. “Every time they pooped, how they pooped, everything. Everything.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That day, May 20, 2014, was different. Carol seemed to wake up in a panic. She called her mom over and over, leaving one desperate message after another: “Mommy, please call me. Please — Please — Please. I’m tired. I’m exhausted. I’m hungry,” she said, crying and rambling until the voicemail system cut her off four times in a row.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By the sixth message, Carol sounded spent: “Mom. Please call me. I love you. Bye.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By the afternoon, Carol was barely saying anything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Rudy came inside after working on his ’68 Chevy truck across the street from their home in Torrance, Sophia was running around with no diaper on. There was poop on the carpet, poop on the walls, poop on her hands. Carol was lying on the bed. Her eyes were blank, black.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rudy started yelling. And that’s when he said the thing he wishes he hadn’t.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was like, ‘Carol – to what extreme is this going to get to?’ And I regret telling her that,” he said. “Because I don’t know if that’s what kind of sparked her to do something dumb? To do that?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rudy went back outside. He was working on his truck when Carol’s mom came over after her shift driving a local school bus. She went into the house, then ran out, screaming.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>All three girls were dead. Carol had taken a knife from the kitchen and stabbed them each in the throat and through the heart. Then she laid them on the bed, in order from youngest to oldest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“At first glance, it was weird, ’cause I didn’t see no blood. I don’t remember seeing blood. So when I walked up and I touched Sophie, she was cold,” he recalled, his voice catching. “I was like, ‘What’d you do?’ I couldn’t believe my eyes.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Carol looked at Rudy and told him she loved him. Then she pushed the knife into her own chest.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>The Victim or the Monster?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Carol did not die that day. If she had, perhaps she would have been mourned, alongside her daughters, as one of the victims of an inexplicable tragedy. But her survival meant that day would have to be explained — in court, by prosecutors, who would cast Carol as a criminal, driven by revenge, and deserving of society’s harshest judgment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "‘Mommy, please call me. Please — Please — Please. I’m tired. I’m exhausted.’",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Even though several psychiatrists testified that Carol was suffering from postpartum psychosis, a severe mental illness triggered by childbirth, the judge would set that evidence aside: The law used to evaluate these cases was written a century before any doctor had uttered such a diagnosis, and the web of clinical symptoms simply doesn’t fit the legal test for insanity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In California, more than 100 women are in prison for killing their children, data analysis by KQED shows. The state prison system doesn’t track these numbers, so KQED reviewed thousands of court records and news reports to calculate them. Forty percent of these women took their baby’s life before they were a year old. Seventy percent of those women are serving life sentences.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This doesn’t happen in other developed countries. \u003ca href=\"http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo6/1-2/36/section/1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">England\u003c/a>, Canada, Australia, Japan, Brazil, Sweden and \u003ca href=\"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2174580/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">more than a dozen other nations\u003c/a> have specific laws for these cases. Most are modeled after Britain’s Infanticide Act, which says if a woman harms her child within a year of giving birth, it is presumed she suffered from a postpartum mental illness. She is often sentenced to treatment, not incarceration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s an assumption that something was off,” said Diana Lynn Barnes, a psychotherapist in Southern California who frequently serves as an expert witness in infanticide cases. “Most of the time these women are found guilty of manslaughter, and in many cases they don’t even go to prison.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A few states have pushed for similar laws to allow judges to reconsider and lower harsh sentences with evidence of postpartum mental illness in mind. Only one succeeded: \u003ca href=\"http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publicacts/fulltext.asp?Name=100-0574\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Illinois\u003c/a> in 2018. When California advocates broached the topic that same year, they said lawmakers told them, “No, not now.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Without a uniform standard for these cases in the U.S., judgments have been \u003ca href=\"https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1060&context=uclf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">arbitrary and variable\u003c/a>, from life without parole to probation, often depending on the sympathies of the judge or jury. Most courts continue to view women who harm their children the same as trained assassins, experts say.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Carol Coronado was charged with three counts of first-degree murder. The Los Angeles County District Attorney’s Office considered \u003ca href=\"https://www.dailybreeze.com/2014/05/23/mother-charged-in-daughters-murders-near-carson-could-face-death-penalty/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">seeking the death penalty\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/02/postpartumfinal3.png\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-11800379\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/02/postpartumfinal3.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1447\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/02/postpartumfinal3.png 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/02/postpartumfinal3-160x121.png 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/02/postpartumfinal3-800x603.png 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/02/postpartumfinal3-1020x769.png 1020w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\" />\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>‘It Was the Disease’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The first time Rudy and Carol Coronado ever heard of postpartum psychosis was after Carol was taken to jail.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Doctors later told them that Carol’s break from reality was caused by hormonal changes from her last pregnancy, lack of sleep and the relentless cycle of breastfeeding and caring for three babies under three. \u003ca href=\"https://repository.jmls.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1325&context=lawreview\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Two-thirds of women\u003c/a> who kill their children following childbirth suffer from postpartum psychosis, a 2000 study found.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Everybody who saw her, all of the doctors, within hours and days of this event found that she had some kind of a psychotic disorder,” said Barnes, the expert witness in Carol’s case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Carol’s bizarre behavior, her confusion and detachment, she said, these are all symptoms of postpartum psychosis — and they can develop without warning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She will look disheveled, not just unkempt, but disheveled. She’ll start to look glazed over,” Barnes said. “She may be looking around as though she’s taking things in from the environment that may or may not be there.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rudy finally had an explanation for Carol’s sudden change in behavior.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was thinking like a demon possessed her or something because her eyes went black,” he said. “Now I know that it was the disease.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s what frustrates Rudy now — knowing there’s treatment that could have cleared Carol’s symptoms and prevented what happened that day. If he had only known what he was seeing and what else to look for.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "‘Everybody who saw her, all of the doctors, within hours and days of this event found that she had some kind of a psychotic disorder.’",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Postpartum psychosis affects \u003ca href=\"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3109493/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">one to two moms\u003c/a> out of 1,000 births, but many reproductive psychiatrists believe that is an \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11710961/she-strived-to-be-the-perfect-mom-and-landed-in-the-psych-ward\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">underestimate\u003c/a> because the symptoms are easy to miss, and the doctors who most often see new moms are not trained to recognize them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Postpartum psychosis often presents with delirium-type symptoms, mainly confusion and disorganized thoughts and not classic hallucinations or paranoia,” said Nirmaljit Dhami, a reproductive psychiatrist in Mountain View. “And the symptoms wax and wane. I had one patient who was confused at times and very clear at other times.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Women with postpartum psychosis often experience a mood disturbance, too, either mania or depression. Carol’s lawyer argued she was depressed, but that her doctors missed that, too. Her primary care doctor, Bijan Ghatan, testified at her trial that Carol didn’t “seem depressed” to him, when he saw her six days before the deaths.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She was her usual jovial self,” Ghatan said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This was 2014, four years before the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists \u003ca href=\"https://www.acog.org/Clinical-Guidance-and-Publications/Committee-Opinions/Committee-on-Obstetric-Practice/Screening-for-Perinatal-Depression\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">rewrote its guidelines\u003c/a> to recommend doctors administer a formal screening test for postpartum depression, and five years before \u003ca href=\"http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billCompareClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180AB2193\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">California law\u003c/a> made the test \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/stateofhealth/362521/woman-seeks-help-for-post-partum-depression-the-nurse-calls-the-cops\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">mandatory\u003c/a>. So Carol’s doctor said he didn’t do one. He said Carol didn’t seem depressed, so he didn’t ask.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When we enter an exam room, we always say, ‘Hey, you look great! Look at the baby! Yay!’ ” said Torie Sepah, a reproductive psychiatrist who has delivered many babies over many years in family practice. “That leaves no room for the mom to not be doing great. To say, ‘Actually, I’m really miserable.’ ”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Women are conditioned to act like they’re happy and have it together, Sepah said. To admit otherwise might invite others to believe she’s a bad mom, or, worst of all, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/stateofhealth/362521/woman-seeks-help-for-post-partum-depression-the-nurse-calls-the-cops\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">trigger a call\u003c/a> to a government agency that might take the baby away. That’s why testing is now required for all new moms, she said, no matter how they present in the doctor’s office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To Sepah, who treated Carol at a Los Angeles jail in the days after her daughters’ deaths, there is no doubt she had postpartum psychosis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even before the children were killed, Sepah said, there were clinical signs that something was off, in particular, Carol’s weight loss: She weighed less after having her third baby than she did before getting pregnant with her first.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11800227\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11800227\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/postpartum-psychosis_hospital_Carol-Coronado-qut-800x610.jpg\" alt=\"After Carol Coronado was arrested, she was taken to a hospital where she was treated for self-inflicted stab wounds and given anti-psychotic medication.\" width=\"800\" height=\"610\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/postpartum-psychosis_hospital_Carol-Coronado-qut-800x610.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/postpartum-psychosis_hospital_Carol-Coronado-qut-160x122.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/postpartum-psychosis_hospital_Carol-Coronado-qut-1020x778.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/postpartum-psychosis_hospital_Carol-Coronado-qut.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">After Carol Coronado was arrested, she was taken to a hospital where she was treated for self-inflicted stab wounds and given anti-psychotic medication. \u003ccite>(Evidence file/Compton Courthouse)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>What Carol Remembers\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>That day, Carol was treated briefly in the hospital for a punctured lung, then taken straight to jail. She was on suicide watch for the next 21 months.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That whole time, Carol says she didn’t know what was going on or what had happened. The scar, from plunging the knife into her chest? She had no idea how it got there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>It’s common for people not to remember what happened during a psychotic episode, said Dr. Sepah. Cognitive pathways short circuit and synapses stop firing correctly: “Instead of going A, B, C, they’re going A, D, G,” she said. Those kinds of thought patterns are too disorganized for memories to form.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Carol says her memories stop about a week before the killings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That’s about the time my brain began to stutter and shut off, memory-wise. Before it completely broke,” she says over a scratchy phone connection from prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She does remember having nightmares.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was terrified to go to sleep. I wasn’t showering, taking a bath, brushing my teeth. I wasn’t eating. I wasn’t doing anything.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She couldn’t concentrate. She put socks away in the fridge and milk in the dresser. She felt overwhelmed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Like I was worthless, helpless, hopeless and I’d be better off dead,” she says. “That nobody needed me. That I was nothing.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Legal Insanity: The Twinkie Defense to Today\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Carol was not much help to her defense attorney. At the time, she did not have the insight into her feelings that she is beginning to have now, five years later.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Her lawyer’s strategy was an insanity defense. And here the odds were against them: Less than 1% of criminal cases end with a successful insanity defense, according to \u003ca href=\"https://www.researchgate.net/publication/21370218_The_Volume_and_Characteristics_of_Insanity_Defense_Pleas_An_Eight-State_Study\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">a seminal study\u003c/a> from 1991.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s a very, very hard defense to make,” said Michelle Oberman, a law professor at Santa Clara University School of Law. “It almost never works in postpartum mental health defenses.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is because of what happened in 1981, when John Hinckley Jr. fired multiple gunshots in his attempt to assassinate President Ronald Reagan. Hinckley, 25, said he was in love with actress Jodie Foster, and he was convinced that she would fall in love with him if he killed the president.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Psychiatrists said Hinckley had schizophrenia and the jury found him not guilty by reason of insanity. He spent the next 30 years in a psychiatric hospital.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Americans were outraged: The day after the verdict, \u003ca href=\"https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0879235330/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_taft_p1_i3\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">83% said justice\u003c/a> had not been done. Lawmakers from 38 states rewrote their insanity laws to ensure that another Hinckley “would not get off.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "‘The test for proving insanity is so out of keeping with the way that we understand how the mind works.’",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>One of them was \u003ca href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_California_Proposition_8\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">California\u003c/a>. The state had its own version of the Hinckley case a few years earlier in 1978, when Dan White climbed through a window into San Francisco City Hall and shot and killed Mayor George Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>White’s lawyer argued what would from then on be remembered as the infamous “Twinkie defense.” He said White suffered from depression, which made him periodically obsessed with junk food, and which compromised his capacity to understand or control what he was doing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The jury found White guilty of manslaughter, rather than murder, and sentenced him to eight years in prison. San Francisco erupted in riots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After this, just when the jury delivered the Hinckley verdict, California voters passed a tough-on-crime measure that included an overhaul of the state’s insanity defense law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California is one of \u003ca href=\"https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-procedure/the-insanity-defense-among-the-states.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">25 states\u003c/a> that now uses a strict legal test for insanity established in 1843. It’s focused on whether a person knows the difference between right and wrong — it’s a moral test, not a clinical one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The test for proving insanity is so out of keeping with the way that we understand how the mind works,” law professor Michelle Oberman said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And it completely ignores the \u003ca href=\"https://via.library.depaul.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1152&context=jhcl\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">risk factors\u003c/a> researchers now know are associated with infanticide: isolation and shame. These moms spend long hours alone with their kids with little to no help, Oberman said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Like a lot of moms, they start to feel like a failure, like a bad mom. But with psychosis in the mix, this belief becomes a full-on delusion. Up to \u003ca href=\"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2174580/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">29% of moms\u003c/a> who kill their kids also kill themselves, and even more attempt suicide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They start to believe that their children would be better off with them in heaven,” Oberman said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11800241\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11800241\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/postpartum-psychosis-postpartum-depression-coronado-house-800x609.png\" alt=\"Outside the home of Carol and Rudy Coronado after she killed the couple's three daughters.\" width=\"800\" height=\"609\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/postpartum-psychosis-postpartum-depression-coronado-house-800x609.png 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/postpartum-psychosis-postpartum-depression-coronado-house-160x122.png 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/postpartum-psychosis-postpartum-depression-coronado-house.png 978w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Outside the home of Carol and Rudy Coronado after she killed the couple’s three daughters. \u003ccite>(Evidence file/Compton Courthouse)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>The Trial\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>When Carol Coronado went on trial in 2015, she said she couldn’t remember anything from the day her daughters died. And even though this is common with psychotic episodes, it was the biggest weakness in her legal defense.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To be found insane, Carol would have to prove that she didn’t know what she was doing was wrong.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Carol says she didn’t know what she was doing at all. She had no explanation for why she did what she did — even a psychotic explanation that her babies would be better off in heaven.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The prosecutor, Emily Spear, exploited this weakness at every turn, filling the void in Carol’s memory with her own narrative of what happened. She said Carol’s motive was revenge. She said Rudy was a jerk, leaving Carol in charge of three little girls with no help. She said Carol had had enough that day and decided to get back at Rudy by killing their daughters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The marriage was not a good one,” Spear said during her opening statement. “Finances were very, very tough.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This was a crime of rage, of desperation, but not delusion, she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Spear interpreted all of Carol’s actions from that day according to this revenge narrative. She framed each move as a premeditated moral failing — while the defense reframed everything as a clinical symptom of psychosis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The prosecutor pointed to statements Carol gave to a detective hours after she was arrested, when he asked her if she killed her children to “get back at her husband.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She said: “If that’s true, do I get a better deal?” When the detective asked her, “What do you need from us in order to tell us what happened?” Carol responded: “Bedpan.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“A psychotic mind has a logic all its own,” said defense expert witness Diana Lynn Barnes. “The state is attempting to use rational, logical thought to explain psychosis, which is illogical and delusional.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is the thing about postpartum psychosis that most often gets confused in court, she added: the way the symptoms wax and wane.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Because if one moment I’m telling you something, but then in the next moment I can’t remember what I just did – that kind of looks like I’m faking it,” Barnes said. “But it’s actually the clinical presentation of postpartum psychosis.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Calm, Just Like Me\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>When Carol came into the visiting room at the Central California Women’s Facility in Chowchilla, she looked — four years after the trial — as she did in the courtroom shot of her that ran in the paper over and over: straight brown hair, a little greasy; pale skin and no makeup.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Carol is getting some treatment here, but it’s hard to tell if it’s working. Conversation with her jumped around. She easily veered off on tangents. Sometimes she said things that didn’t make sense. On other topics, she went deep into detail.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Like the last time her family went to the beach together. Rudy and Sophie went straight for the ocean. But Yazi stayed with Carol. She liked to run her little rake through the sand, look at the lines, then wipe them flat and do it again. Sophie is just like Rudy, social and playful. Yazi is Zen, calm. Just like me, she says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some of these stories about the girls still come out in the present tense. Throughout her trial, Carol said she thought her children were still alive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I literally kept looking for my children, having delusions that they were on the other side of that door, that they were going to walk in at any moment and I would be able to hold them,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When her family called her in prison and Carol asked after the girls, her mother just said they were “gone.” Rudy said they were “safe.” Carol figured they were at their godparents’ house or her sister’s house.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was her lawyer who told her what happened. The specifics.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I flipped out. I became hysterical and inconsolable. I was screaming,” Carol said. “I did not believe it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What Carol’s case came down to was what the judge believed. She opted for a bench trial, deciding not to take her chances on a jury.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the end, the judge said he thought Carol did suffer from a mental health condition. He said he believed she needed treatment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But the insanity law is the law. He said she would have to get treatment in prison. He sentenced her to three consecutive life sentences. No parole.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>A Successful Insanity Defense\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Angela Burling once stood before a judge like Carol did, after she killed her son. There were a lot of similarities between Angela’s case and Carol’s, except the outcome: One went to prison, and the other went home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I couldn’t have been more fortunate,” Angela said from her home outside Sacramento.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 1983, nine months after Angela gave birth to her second child, Michael, she stopped breastfeeding him abruptly, rather than weaning him gradually as doctors now recommend. She started having strange thoughts.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I felt I had a calling to expunge the world of evil,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She began to believe her husband, Jeff, was Jesus. She was the bride of Christ. And her baby Michael, was the devil.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I felt I needed to drown Michael,” she said. “But then I thought, ‘He’ll come back to life. Jeff will raise him from the dead in three days. Then the world will know: Jeff is Jesus and peace will reign.’ So that’s what I did. I drowned him.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This was the thing that made the difference in Angela’s case – her account of what happened fit the strict legal test for insanity. She believed her son was the devil and that killing him was the right thing to do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The judge found her not guilty by reason of insanity. He sentenced her to outpatient treatment, meaning Angela could go home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Angela recovered. The psychosis went away and Angela has since been doing well taking regular medication for bipolar disorder – doctors now understand women with the disorder have a \u003ca href=\"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3109493/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">30% likelihood\u003c/a> of experiencing postpartum psychosis. Women who have had postpartum psychosis with one pregnancy have a \u003ca href=\"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23651079\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">50% chance\u003c/a> of having it again with a subsequent pregnancy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "‘I make a case for understanding how it can happen to anybody. I could be your sister, or your daughter, or your wife.’",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>So when Angela became pregnant with her third child, she put together a team of top-notch psychiatric providers to be on call. In their care, she was sure the psychosis would not come back, and even if it did, she was certain no harm would come to her baby.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When I found out I was pregnant, I was the happiest woman on earth,” she said. “Because I felt like, I have another chance – to raise another baby. And prove I’m a good mom.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She went back to school for her master’s degree in nursing, and when her first marriage frayed under the tensions of what happened, she remarried. She and her second husband have been together for 25 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I feel like what happened to me is what should happen to other women in my situation,” said Angela, now 64. “I make a case for understanding how it can happen to anybody. I could be your sister, or your daughter, or your wife.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Angela believes the way to level the field for all women is for California to adopt a law similar to Britain’s \u003ca href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanticide_Act_1938\">Infanticide Act\u003c/a>, which says any woman who kills her baby is presumed to be mentally ill and faces a maximum charge of manslaughter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Back in 1989, a California senator was so moved by Angela’s story that \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6769000-Senate-Resolution-23-Complete-Apr-4.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">he recommended California adopt a version of this law\u003c/a>. But it never went anywhere.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was a pretty bold resolution,” she said. “I don’t know if society was ready for it then.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Illinois, the one state that has managed to make a small change, now allows judges to give women lower sentences if postpartum mental illness was a factor in her baby’s death. For women already convicted, they could get a new hearing and a reduced sentence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It is the first criminal statute in the U.S. that mentions postpartum psychosis by name. Advocates in Massachusetts, Connecticut and New York are considering a similar law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If California were to follow suit, KQED’s data analysis shows more than 40 women currently in prison could have their cases reheard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We can’t fail these moms twice,” said Joy Burkhard, executive director of \u003ca href=\"https://www.2020mom.org/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">2020 Mom\u003c/a>, an advocacy group seeking a sponsor for a similar law in California. “They’re failed by the health care system, then again by the legal system.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11800250\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11800250\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Rudy-Coronado-3-reading-letter-qut-800x600.jpg\" alt=\"Rudy Coronado reading a letter from Carol.\" width=\"800\" height=\"600\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Rudy-Coronado-3-reading-letter-qut-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Rudy-Coronado-3-reading-letter-qut-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Rudy-Coronado-3-reading-letter-qut-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Rudy-Coronado-3-reading-letter-qut.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Rudy-Coronado-3-reading-letter-qut-1832x1374.jpg 1832w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Rudy-Coronado-3-reading-letter-qut-1376x1032.jpg 1376w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Rudy-Coronado-3-reading-letter-qut-1044x783.jpg 1044w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Rudy-Coronado-3-reading-letter-qut-632x474.jpg 632w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Rudy-Coronado-3-reading-letter-qut-536x402.jpg 536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Rudy Coronado reading a letter from Carol at his home in October 2018. \u003ccite>(April Dembosky/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>‘Speak to the Dads’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Rudy Coronado packs up oil, anti-freeze and wiper blades from his stall at the Alpine Village flea market in Los Angeles. He’s been selling auto parts here since his girls were born, about eight years ago.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I used to want to get rich, to leave something for my daughters. That was my fire, that was my fuel,” said Rudy, now 41. “Now, my fire is gone.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He still feels guilty that he didn’t know what was happening to Carol. He still thinks about the way he talked to her or if there was something he could have done to stop it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>So when women’s health advocates asked him for help, he said yes. He always says yes. He speaks at rallies and forums and in the state Legislature. His testimony helped pass a package of laws in 2018, including the one requiring mandatory screening of new moms for postpartum mental illness.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hospitals now also have to \u003ca href=\"http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billCompareClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180AB3032\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">train staff\u003c/a> how to recognize symptoms, and the state is \u003ca href=\"http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180AB1893\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">applying for more federal money\u003c/a> to do more outreach to families.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I always make it an issue to go and speak to the dads,” Rudy said of his public appearances. “Because no one never talks to the dads.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He tells them: Postpartum mental illness is real. Look for it. Research it. Don’t confuse it with “baby mama drama.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This is a famous thing,” Rudy explained. ” ‘Aw, my baby mama’s trippin.’ Now I tell them, ‘Your baby mama is not trippin. Your baby mama’s going through it.’ ”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The work has helped him to understand what happened to Carol that day, but not necessarily to forgive her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The way I think about it, like, I blame the disease, not Carol,” he said. “It’s not that I forgive Carol. I’ve kind of, somehow, not really blamed her.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11800253\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11800253\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Carol-drawing-close-up-qut-800x600.jpg\" alt=\"Rudy Coronado reading a letter from Carol.\" width=\"800\" height=\"600\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Carol-drawing-close-up-qut-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Carol-drawing-close-up-qut-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Carol-drawing-close-up-qut-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Carol-drawing-close-up-qut.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Carol-drawing-close-up-qut-1832x1374.jpg 1832w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Carol-drawing-close-up-qut-1376x1032.jpg 1376w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Carol-drawing-close-up-qut-1044x783.jpg 1044w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Carol-drawing-close-up-qut-632x474.jpg 632w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/04/Edited_Carol-drawing-close-up-qut-536x402.jpg 536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Rudy Coronado shows a drawing that Carol sent to him from prison in November 2017. \u003ccite>(April Dembosky/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>‘Should Have Been in a Hospital’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Last October, the Saturday before Carol’s 36th birthday, her parents, David and Julie Piercey, got up at 4 a.m. and drove their Dodge minivan five hours north from Los Angeles to the prison in Chowchilla.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the visiting room with Carol, they didn’t say much. They just played round after round of dominoes. Later in the parking lot, they both said Carol doesn’t belong here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She had no business going to prison,” her dad said. “She should have been in a hospital, period.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s all they wanted from an insanity defense, for Carol to go to a place where she could get real treatment. Not a place where she says other inmates beat her up and call her a baby killer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Her parents said Carol still says things that don’t make sense.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She tells us, ‘I’m going to be getting out in a couple of weeks or three weeks or a month,’ ” David said. “It’s heart-wrenching because I know it’s never going to happen.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Her dad can’t bring himself to say anything in response. Her mom can’t help but say something.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>” ‘OK Carol. I’ll be happy when you get out, sweetheart!’ ” she said. ” ‘Mama’s waiting for you.’ ”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>These conversations are too hard for Rudy. He doesn’t visit Carol anymore. He hasn’t talked to her on the phone in three years. He said she’s not the same person.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Carol still writes to Rudy. He has stacks and stacks of her letters. But he stopped reading those, too. He said she never mentions what happened. She never writes about the girls.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She doesn’t even write their names. Just draws cryptic images of threes: three pumpkins, three stars. Three hearts with three letters inside, the girls’ initials: S, Y, X.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>April Dembosky is a health correspondent at KQED public radio and The California Report. She is also a recipient of a Rosalynn Carter Fellowship for Mental Health Journalism.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>KQED’s Kate Wolffe contributed research for this story.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"title": "Why Meta’s Landmark Settlement Could Be Social Media’s ‘Big Tobacco Moment’",
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"content": "\n\u003cp>Meta’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12096821/meta-states-agree-to-17-billion-settlement-in-child-safety-trial\">landmark child safety settlement\u003c/a> with 47 states, the District of Columbia and U.S. territories on Wednesday could set a new industry standard for teen tech protections, potentially reshaping how young people interact with social media. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>California Attorney General Rob Bonta warned other tech titans, including TikTok, Snap and YouTube, that the settlement creates what he called an “enforceable blueprint” for states.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“We expect that other members of the industry … will adhere to essentially a similar set of remedies and protections for kids,” Bonta said during a press conference on Wednesday morning. “Whether we do that through litigation, through conversation and resolution, is really up to the other members of the industry.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The settlement agreement between Meta and the bipartisan coalition of states and territories was approved by federal district Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers on Wednesday, halting the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12096121/she-died-by-design-meta-on-trial-over-child-safety\">ongoing child safety trial\u003c/a> led by California, Colorado, Kentucky and New Jersey. The states, on behalf of a larger coalition of 29, have accused the company of knowingly designing its products in ways that could harm children.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1440\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12096038\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-2000x1125.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-2048x1152.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-1200x675.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Chris Lewis, commissioner of consumer and senior protection of the Kentucky Attorney General’s Office, cross-examines psychology professor Jean Twenge on Aug. 19, 2026, in an Oakland courtroom. (Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The settlement requires Meta to make significant changes to its Instagram and Facebook platforms and pay more than $17 billion in financial penalties to states over the next decade. It resolves a number of other pending state lawsuits against Meta, but \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12095583/meta-hooked-kids-federal-trial-against-tech-giant-kicks-off-in-oakland\">thousands of other cases\u003c/a> filed by individuals and school districts will continue.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“We have secured the changes we were after,” Bonta said of the settlement. “I don’t think we compromised on anything here.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Over the next six months, Meta will be required to institute a default daily time limit of two hours for users under 18, a nighttime block between midnight and 6 a.m. and a notification block overnight and during school hours. Those default settings can only be changed by a parent, and some would be expanded if other social media companies commit to similar terms.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Their apps will also ban displaying the number of likes or reactions that users under 18 get on their posts, and ban image filters that imitate cosmetic procedures for those users. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Meta also committed to creating enhanced parent supervision tools, instituting more robust measures to detect users’ ages and bringing on an independent auditor “with expansive access to information and resources, regular reporting and the right to communicate concerns to the attorneys general.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“This is a really strong down payment on protecting our kids,” Bonta said. “It is transformative. It is a watershed moment.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Marin resident Victoria Hinks, whose daughter Alexandra, nicknamed Owl, died by suicide at 16 after she said she was exposed to harmful content on social media, supported the settlement.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Outside the courthouse on Wednesday morning, she said that while the final dollar amount Meta will have to pay states doesn’t come close to the $1.4 trillion they initially sought, the $17.1 billion figure “is meaningful.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“It’s not about the money — no amount of money is ever going to bring my daughter back,” she said. “But unfortunately, it’s the only language they understand, and it needs to hurt a little bit for them to make changes so that it doesn’t happen again.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>California expects to receive upward of $2 billion in total, which Bonta said would be used for efforts addressing social media-related mental health issues, addictive tendencies and learning loss.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1125\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12095836\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED-1200x675.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Meta’s lead attorney Paul Schmidt delivers his opening statements for Meta on Aug. 18, 2026, in Oakland. Schmidt told the court that the company doesn’t deny that “some teens struggle to manage their time on social media,” and some people “post negative things.” (Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In a statement, Meta’s chief legal officer C.J. Mahoney said the settlement would create a “new set of rules governing teens’ use of social media” — if other social media companies follow suit. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“Because teens move fluidly across dozens of apps, we need an industry-wide solution,” Mahoney said. “We therefore call on our industry peers, TikTok and YouTube, to implement this new framework, right away.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Google, which operates YouTube, Snap and TikTok, did not immediately respond to requests for comment about whether they plan to consider making similar changes.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>California and 14 attorneys general have a \u003ca href=\"https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bonta-attorney-general-james-lead-coalition-suing-tiktok\">pending lawsuit\u003c/a> against TikTok over child safety dangers, and Bonta said his office is “very concerned” about YouTube. Pennsylvania’s attorney general on Tuesday \u003ca href=\"https://whyy.org/articles/snapchat-sued-pennsylvania-attorney-general/\">announced a similar lawsuit against Snap\u003c/a>, which operates Snapchat.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/GettyImages-2290506003-1-scaled-e1787755545663.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12096824\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">California Attorney General Rob Bonta speaks to reporters at a press conference after opening arguments took place in the Meta trial over a lawsuit brought by U.S. states about social media addiction at the Ronald V. Dellums Federal Building and United States Courthouse in Oakland, California, on Aug. 18, 2026. (Godofredo A. Vasquez/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“We have a lawsuit against TikTok. We’re gonna be putting more time and attention and focus on that,” Bonta said. “With the momentum that we’ve built, the success that we have secured here, we will be focusing on the rest of the industry.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Wednesday’s deal followed days of what Bonta called “devastating” testimony for Meta from former employees, social media and mental health experts and, on Tuesday, Instagram chief Adam Mosseri.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>On the stand, state lawyers showed Mosseri internal emails and documents that suggested Meta knowingly left information out of presentations and documents shared with him and other top executives at the request of company attorneys, who worried about exposing them to “litigation risk.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Mosseri defended the company’s decision to reduce the number of employees with access to internal research after the \u003cem>Wall Street Journal\u003c/em>’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-facebook-files-11631713039\">“Facebook Files”\u003c/a> exposed a bevy of Meta documents showing the platform had flaws that caused harm, but state attorneys questioned why lawyers, not product designers or researchers, would have had final say over what information was deemed important to bring to executives. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“It’s telling that Meta settled midway through Instagram president Adam Mosseri’s testimony, and before CEO Mark Zuckerberg could take the stand,” Bonta said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Jim Steyer, the founder of San Francisco-based research and advocacy nonprofit Common Sense Media, called the settlement “social media’s ‘Big Tobacco moment.’”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Still, he said, the work of state justice departments and advocates moving forward will be to “stay vigilant” about enforcement.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“These are major step forwards,” he said. “My guess is you will see additional legislation and potentially legal action to add further restrictions to the behavior of platforms like Facebook and Instagram, which have been the biggest offenders.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“But this is an ongoing battle,” he said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“We expect that other members of the industry … will adhere to essentially a similar set of remedies and protections for kids,” Bonta said during a press conference on Wednesday morning. “Whether we do that through litigation, through conversation and resolution, is really up to the other members of the industry.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The settlement agreement between Meta and the bipartisan coalition of states and territories was approved by federal district Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers on Wednesday, halting the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12096121/she-died-by-design-meta-on-trial-over-child-safety\">ongoing child safety trial\u003c/a> led by California, Colorado, Kentucky and New Jersey. The states, on behalf of a larger coalition of 29, have accused the company of knowingly designing its products in ways that could harm children.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The settlement agreement between Meta and the bipartisan coalition of states and territories was approved by federal district Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers on Wednesday, halting the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12096121/she-died-by-design-meta-on-trial-over-child-safety\">ongoing child safety trial\u003c/a> led by California, Colorado, Kentucky and New Jersey. The states, on behalf of a larger coalition of 29, have accused the company of knowingly designing its products in ways that could harm children.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The settlement requires Meta to make significant changes to its Instagram and Facebook platforms and pay more than $17 billion in financial penalties to states over the next decade. It resolves a number of other pending state lawsuits against Meta, but \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12095583/meta-hooked-kids-federal-trial-against-tech-giant-kicks-off-in-oakland\">thousands of other cases\u003c/a> filed by individuals and school districts will continue.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“We have secured the changes we were after,” Bonta said of the settlement. “I don’t think we compromised on anything here.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Over the next six months, Meta will be required to institute a default daily time limit of two hours for users under 18, a nighttime block between midnight and 6 a.m. and a notification block overnight and during school hours. Those default settings can only be changed by a parent, and some would be expanded if other social media companies commit to similar terms.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Meta also committed to creating enhanced parent supervision tools, instituting more robust measures to detect users’ ages and bringing on an independent auditor “with expansive access to information and resources, regular reporting and the right to communicate concerns to the attorneys general.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“This is a really strong down payment on protecting our kids,” Bonta said. “It is transformative. It is a watershed moment.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Marin resident Victoria Hinks, whose daughter Alexandra, nicknamed Owl, died by suicide at 16 after she said she was exposed to harmful content on social media, supported the settlement.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Outside the courthouse on Wednesday morning, she said that while the final dollar amount Meta will have to pay states doesn’t come close to the $1.4 trillion they initially sought, the $17.1 billion figure “is meaningful.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Outside the courthouse on Wednesday morning, she said that while the final dollar amount Meta will have to pay states doesn’t come close to the $1.4 trillion they initially sought, the $17.1 billion figure “is meaningful.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“It’s not about the money — no amount of money is ever going to bring my daughter back,” she said. “But unfortunately, it’s the only language they understand, and it needs to hurt a little bit for them to make changes so that it doesn’t happen again.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“It’s not about the money — no amount of money is ever going to bring my daughter back,” she said. “But unfortunately, it’s the only language they understand, and it needs to hurt a little bit for them to make changes so that it doesn’t happen again.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>California expects to receive upward of $2 billion in total, which Bonta said would be used for efforts addressing social media-related mental health issues, addictive tendencies and learning loss.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>California expects to receive upward of $2 billion in total, which Bonta said would be used for efforts addressing social media-related mental health issues, addictive tendencies and learning loss.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12095836\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED-1200x675.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Meta’s lead attorney Paul Schmidt delivers his opening statements for Meta on Aug. 18, 2026, in Oakland. Schmidt told the court that the company doesn’t deny that “some teens struggle to manage their time on social media,” and some people “post negative things.”\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“We have a lawsuit against TikTok. We’re gonna be putting more time and attention and focus on that,” Bonta said. “With the momentum that we’ve built, the success that we have secured here, we will be focusing on the rest of the industry.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Mosseri defended the company’s decision to reduce the number of employees with access to internal research after the \u003cem>Wall Street Journal\u003c/em>’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-facebook-files-11631713039\">“Facebook Files”\u003c/a> exposed a bevy of Meta documents showing the platform had flaws that caused harm, but state attorneys questioned why lawyers, not product designers or researchers, would have had final say over what information was deemed important to bring to executives. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“It’s telling that Meta settled midway through Instagram president Adam Mosseri’s testimony, and before CEO Mark Zuckerberg could take the stand,” Bonta said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Jim Steyer, the founder of San Francisco-based research and advocacy nonprofit Common Sense Media, called the settlement “social media’s ‘Big Tobacco moment.’”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Still, he said, the work of state justice departments and advocates moving forward will be to “stay vigilant” about enforcement.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“These are major step forwards,” he said. “My guess is you will see additional legislation and potentially legal action to add further restrictions to the behavior of platforms like Facebook and Instagram, which have been the biggest offenders.\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "California Attorney General Rob Bonta warned other industry giants that states now have an “enforceable blueprint” for child social media protections.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>Meta’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12096821/meta-states-agree-to-17-billion-settlement-in-child-safety-trial\">landmark child safety settlement\u003c/a> with 47 states, the District of Columbia and U.S. territories on Wednesday could set a new industry standard for teen tech protections, potentially reshaping how young people interact with social media. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>California Attorney General Rob Bonta warned other tech titans, including TikTok, Snap and YouTube, that the settlement creates what he called an “enforceable blueprint” for states.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“We expect that other members of the industry … will adhere to essentially a similar set of remedies and protections for kids,” Bonta said during a press conference on Wednesday morning. “Whether we do that through litigation, through conversation and resolution, is really up to the other members of the industry.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The settlement agreement between Meta and the bipartisan coalition of states and territories was approved by federal district Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers on Wednesday, halting the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12096121/she-died-by-design-meta-on-trial-over-child-safety\">ongoing child safety trial\u003c/a> led by California, Colorado, Kentucky and New Jersey. The states, on behalf of a larger coalition of 29, have accused the company of knowingly designing its products in ways that could harm children.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1440\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12096038\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-2000x1125.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-2048x1152.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-1200x675.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Chris Lewis, commissioner of consumer and senior protection of the Kentucky Attorney General’s Office, cross-examines psychology professor Jean Twenge on Aug. 19, 2026, in an Oakland courtroom. (Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The settlement requires Meta to make significant changes to its Instagram and Facebook platforms and pay more than $17 billion in financial penalties to states over the next decade. It resolves a number of other pending state lawsuits against Meta, but \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12095583/meta-hooked-kids-federal-trial-against-tech-giant-kicks-off-in-oakland\">thousands of other cases\u003c/a> filed by individuals and school districts will continue.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“We have secured the changes we were after,” Bonta said of the settlement. “I don’t think we compromised on anything here.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Over the next six months, Meta will be required to institute a default daily time limit of two hours for users under 18, a nighttime block between midnight and 6 a.m. and a notification block overnight and during school hours. Those default settings can only be changed by a parent, and some would be expanded if other social media companies commit to similar terms.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Their apps will also ban displaying the number of likes or reactions that users under 18 get on their posts, and ban image filters that imitate cosmetic procedures for those users. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Meta also committed to creating enhanced parent supervision tools, instituting more robust measures to detect users’ ages and bringing on an independent auditor “with expansive access to information and resources, regular reporting and the right to communicate concerns to the attorneys general.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“This is a really strong down payment on protecting our kids,” Bonta said. “It is transformative. It is a watershed moment.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Marin resident Victoria Hinks, whose daughter Alexandra, nicknamed Owl, died by suicide at 16 after she said she was exposed to harmful content on social media, supported the settlement.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Outside the courthouse on Wednesday morning, she said that while the final dollar amount Meta will have to pay states doesn’t come close to the $1.4 trillion they initially sought, the $17.1 billion figure “is meaningful.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“It’s not about the money — no amount of money is ever going to bring my daughter back,” she said. “But unfortunately, it’s the only language they understand, and it needs to hurt a little bit for them to make changes so that it doesn’t happen again.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>California expects to receive upward of $2 billion in total, which Bonta said would be used for efforts addressing social media-related mental health issues, addictive tendencies and learning loss.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1125\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12095836\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED-1200x675.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Meta’s lead attorney Paul Schmidt delivers his opening statements for Meta on Aug. 18, 2026, in Oakland. Schmidt told the court that the company doesn’t deny that “some teens struggle to manage their time on social media,” and some people “post negative things.” (Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In a statement, Meta’s chief legal officer C.J. Mahoney said the settlement would create a “new set of rules governing teens’ use of social media” — if other social media companies follow suit. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“Because teens move fluidly across dozens of apps, we need an industry-wide solution,” Mahoney said. “We therefore call on our industry peers, TikTok and YouTube, to implement this new framework, right away.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Google, which operates YouTube, Snap and TikTok, did not immediately respond to requests for comment about whether they plan to consider making similar changes.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>California and 14 attorneys general have a \u003ca href=\"https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bonta-attorney-general-james-lead-coalition-suing-tiktok\">pending lawsuit\u003c/a> against TikTok over child safety dangers, and Bonta said his office is “very concerned” about YouTube. Pennsylvania’s attorney general on Tuesday \u003ca href=\"https://whyy.org/articles/snapchat-sued-pennsylvania-attorney-general/\">announced a similar lawsuit against Snap\u003c/a>, which operates Snapchat.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/GettyImages-2290506003-1-scaled-e1787755545663.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12096824\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">California Attorney General Rob Bonta speaks to reporters at a press conference after opening arguments took place in the Meta trial over a lawsuit brought by U.S. states about social media addiction at the Ronald V. Dellums Federal Building and United States Courthouse in Oakland, California, on Aug. 18, 2026. (Godofredo A. Vasquez/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“We have a lawsuit against TikTok. We’re gonna be putting more time and attention and focus on that,” Bonta said. “With the momentum that we’ve built, the success that we have secured here, we will be focusing on the rest of the industry.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Wednesday’s deal followed days of what Bonta called “devastating” testimony for Meta from former employees, social media and mental health experts and, on Tuesday, Instagram chief Adam Mosseri.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>On the stand, state lawyers showed Mosseri internal emails and documents that suggested Meta knowingly left information out of presentations and documents shared with him and other top executives at the request of company attorneys, who worried about exposing them to “litigation risk.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Mosseri defended the company’s decision to reduce the number of employees with access to internal research after the \u003cem>Wall Street Journal\u003c/em>’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-facebook-files-11631713039\">“Facebook Files”\u003c/a> exposed a bevy of Meta documents showing the platform had flaws that caused harm, but state attorneys questioned why lawyers, not product designers or researchers, would have had final say over what information was deemed important to bring to executives. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“It’s telling that Meta settled midway through Instagram president Adam Mosseri’s testimony, and before CEO Mark Zuckerberg could take the stand,” Bonta said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Jim Steyer, the founder of San Francisco-based research and advocacy nonprofit Common Sense Media, called the settlement “social media’s ‘Big Tobacco moment.’”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Still, he said, the work of state justice departments and advocates moving forward will be to “stay vigilant” about enforcement.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“These are major step forwards,” he said. “My guess is you will see additional legislation and potentially legal action to add further restrictions to the behavior of platforms like Facebook and Instagram, which have been the biggest offenders.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“But this is an ongoing battle,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "former-meta-engineer-arturo-bejar-testifies-mark-zuckerberg-put-profits-over-child-safety",
"title": "Former Meta Engineer Arturo Béjar Testifies Mark Zuckerberg Put Profits Over Child Safety",
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"content": "\u003cp>Mark Zuckerberg created a company culture that made it “practically impossible” to address safety and well-being issues in its products, Meta whistleblower Arturo Béjar said in a federal courtroom in Oakland on Wednesday during the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12095583/meta-hooked-kids-federal-trial-against-tech-giant-kicks-off-in-oakland\">landmark child safety trial\u003c/a> against the tech company. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The former Meta safety engineer said that features the company built to support mental health and counter social media addiction were “designed to fail.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“It’s like [if] you have a car and they give you some brakes, but the brakes are in the trunk,” he said. “You have to go look for it and install it before you turn it on.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1440\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12096038\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-2000x1125.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-2048x1152.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-1200x675.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Chris Lewis, commissioner of consumer and senior protection of the Kentucky Attorney General’s Office, cross-examines psychology professor Jean Twenge on Aug. 19, 2026, in an Oakland courtroom. (Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Béjar was the first witness called by the attorneys general of California, Colorado, Kentucky and New Jersey, who allege that the largest social media company in the world knowingly designed its products in ways that could harm children. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Meta, which owns Instagram, Facebook and WhatsApp, has denied the allegations.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The company has acknowledged that it has a role to play in addressing teen well-being, and that some teens struggle to manage their time on social media, but said that it acts on those issues. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Meta also said in a statement via email that it emphasized ongoing feedback, research and learning to improve safety features.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In his second day on the stand, Béjar said the company’s goal was to get products into users’ hands quickly. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>While Béjar worked at Meta, leading Facebook’s Protect and Care team for six years in the 2010s, and as a consultant on Instagram’s well-being team from 2019 to 2021, he said office walls featured posters of Zuckerberg saying “Move Fast and Break Things.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“Most of the time, safety and security was an afterthought,” Béjar said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Béjar said during his first stint with the company, he felt that it cared about safety. When he returned between 2019 and 2021, though, he said he was not proud of the well-being products Instagram was sending. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Béjar said features that Instagram introduced over the years, advertised as helping users manage the amount of time they spent on the apps, were intentionally ineffective. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1125\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12096013\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED-1200x675.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Meta Attorney Brian Stekloff cross-examined Meta whistleblower Arturo Béjar on Aug. 19, 2026, in an Oakland courtroom. (Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>He pointed specifically to “Quiet Mode,” which pauses notifications and sets an account’s status as “away,” and a “Take a Break” button, a full-screen pop-up that gives users a nudge to close the app after a certain amount of continuous scrolling time. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Both are optional and user-initiated. They can also be ignored. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“If ‘Take a Break’ was designed to be effective, it would have been designed and measured by how effective it was to getting people to stop using the product,” Béjar said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Under cross-examination, Meta attorney Brian Stekloff got Béjar to affirm his belief that there are benefits to social media, including for teens. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Béjar said that Meta hired highly educated and well-qualified people to work on safety, many of whom remained at the company after he left, and that during his first, full-time role, Zuckerberg and other executives would work to correct issues when they found them. Both times he departed the company were on good terms, Béjar said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>But the company hid evidence of the psychological harm it caused children behind euphemistic language and misleading metrics, Béjar said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1125\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch1_VB-KQED-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12096040\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch1_VB-KQED-1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch1_VB-KQED-1-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch1_VB-KQED-1-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch1_VB-KQED-1-1200x675.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">California Deputy Attorney General Megan O’Neill delivered her opening statement in the state’s case against Meta on Aug. 18, 2026, in Oakland. O’Neill accused Meta of hiding its own research that showed children were being harmed by its platforms. Opening arguments began Tuesday in the federal suit brought by four attorneys general against Meta. (Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“It was the company culture that made it near impossible to deliver things that would have been invaluable to learn about harm so that you could reduce it,” Béjar said, adding that he “tried to do it the first year” he returned as a consultant. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>He said that when Meta was accused of harming children, it responded with data showing that more kids benefited.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“If we make, out of 100 kids, 31 kids less anxious and 30 kids more anxious … [that to Meta is] more good than harm,” he said. “It’s like math with harm.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The work should be to protect the good … while bringing the harm as close to zero as possible,” Béjar said.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“If we make, out of 100 kids, 31 kids less anxious and 30 kids more anxious … [that to Meta is] more good than harm,” he said. “It’s like math with harm.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“The work should be to protect the good … while bringing the harm as close to zero as possible,” Béjar said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "Meta has been sued by California and a coalition of states that accuse it of intentionally designing products to hook kids and teens.",
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"title": "Former Meta Engineer Arturo Béjar Testifies Mark Zuckerberg Put Profits Over Child Safety | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Mark Zuckerberg created a company culture that made it “practically impossible” to address safety and well-being issues in its products, Meta whistleblower Arturo Béjar said in a federal courtroom in Oakland on Wednesday during the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12095583/meta-hooked-kids-federal-trial-against-tech-giant-kicks-off-in-oakland\">landmark child safety trial\u003c/a> against the tech company. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The former Meta safety engineer said that features the company built to support mental health and counter social media addiction were “designed to fail.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“It’s like [if] you have a car and they give you some brakes, but the brakes are in the trunk,” he said. “You have to go look for it and install it before you turn it on.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1440\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12096038\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-2000x1125.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-2048x1152.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch3_VB-1200x675.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Chris Lewis, commissioner of consumer and senior protection of the Kentucky Attorney General’s Office, cross-examines psychology professor Jean Twenge on Aug. 19, 2026, in an Oakland courtroom. (Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Béjar was the first witness called by the attorneys general of California, Colorado, Kentucky and New Jersey, who allege that the largest social media company in the world knowingly designed its products in ways that could harm children. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Meta, which owns Instagram, Facebook and WhatsApp, has denied the allegations.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The company has acknowledged that it has a role to play in addressing teen well-being, and that some teens struggle to manage their time on social media, but said that it acts on those issues. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Meta also said in a statement via email that it emphasized ongoing feedback, research and learning to improve safety features.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In his second day on the stand, Béjar said the company’s goal was to get products into users’ hands quickly. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>While Béjar worked at Meta, leading Facebook’s Protect and Care team for six years in the 2010s, and as a consultant on Instagram’s well-being team from 2019 to 2021, he said office walls featured posters of Zuckerberg saying “Move Fast and Break Things.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“Most of the time, safety and security was an afterthought,” Béjar said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Béjar said during his first stint with the company, he felt that it cared about safety. When he returned between 2019 and 2021, though, he said he was not proud of the well-being products Instagram was sending. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Béjar said features that Instagram introduced over the years, advertised as helping users manage the amount of time they spent on the apps, were intentionally ineffective. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1125\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12096013\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/260819-MetaTrialSketch2_VB-KQED-1200x675.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Meta Attorney Brian Stekloff cross-examined Meta whistleblower Arturo Béjar on Aug. 19, 2026, in an Oakland courtroom. (Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>He pointed specifically to “Quiet Mode,” which pauses notifications and sets an account’s status as “away,” and a “Take a Break” button, a full-screen pop-up that gives users a nudge to close the app after a certain amount of continuous scrolling time. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Both are optional and user-initiated. They can also be ignored. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“If ‘Take a Break’ was designed to be effective, it would have been designed and measured by how effective it was to getting people to stop using the product,” Béjar said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Under cross-examination, Meta attorney Brian Stekloff got Béjar to affirm his belief that there are benefits to social media, including for teens. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Béjar said that Meta hired highly educated and well-qualified people to work on safety, many of whom remained at the company after he left, and that during his first, full-time role, Zuckerberg and other executives would work to correct issues when they found them. Both times he departed the company were on good terms, Béjar said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>But the company hid evidence of the psychological harm it caused children behind euphemistic language and misleading metrics, Béjar said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1125\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch1_VB-KQED-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12096040\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch1_VB-KQED-1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch1_VB-KQED-1-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch1_VB-KQED-1-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/MetaTrialSketch1_VB-KQED-1-1200x675.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">California Deputy Attorney General Megan O’Neill delivered her opening statement in the state’s case against Meta on Aug. 18, 2026, in Oakland. O’Neill accused Meta of hiding its own research that showed children were being harmed by its platforms. Opening arguments began Tuesday in the federal suit brought by four attorneys general against Meta. (Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“It was the company culture that made it near impossible to deliver things that would have been invaluable to learn about harm so that you could reduce it,” Béjar said, adding that he “tried to do it the first year” he returned as a consultant. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>He said that when Meta was accused of harming children, it responded with data showing that more kids benefited.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“If we make, out of 100 kids, 31 kids less anxious and 30 kids more anxious … [that to Meta is] more good than harm,” he said. “It’s like math with harm.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The work should be to protect the good … while bringing the harm as close to zero as possible,” Béjar said.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "meta-faces-up-to-1-4-trillion-reckoning-as-youth-addiction-trial-opens-in-oakland",
"title": "Meta Faces Up to $1.4 Trillion Reckoning as Youth-Addiction Trial Opens in Oakland",
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"headTitle": "Meta Faces Up to $1.4 Trillion Reckoning as Youth-Addiction Trial Opens in Oakland | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>Since the dawn of social media, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/meta\">Meta\u003c/a> and other platforms have faced lawsuits charging that the sites caused harm to their users. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The companies have largely shielded themselves from those legal attacks, arguing they are not responsible for content published on their sites. But in the last two years, plaintiffs’ lawyers and state attorneys general have found success with a new strategy: arguing social media companies knowingly designed their products and policies in ways that could harm children. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101913414/addictive-social-media-is-harmful-to-youth-jury-says\">Earlier this year,\u003c/a> Meta attorneys faced two juries and lost in both cases. A Los Angeles jury held Meta and Google’s YouTube liable for negligent design. A New Mexico jury found the company willfully violated state consumer-protection laws. The judge \u003ca href=\"https://www.wsj.com/tech/meta-ordered-to-pay-942-million-to-address-harm-to-kids-from-social-media-8ba5aab7?mod=e2li\">ordered Meta to pay $942 million\u003c/a> and change how its products work for young users in that state. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Starting this week in Oakland, the company faces its biggest challenge yet, when a federal trial brought by \u003ca href=\"https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bonta-files-lawsuit-against-meta-over-harms-youth-mental-health\">four state attorneys general\u003c/a> goes before Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers. California, Colorado, Kentucky and New Jersey argue Meta built features it knew would hook young users, and kept children under 13 on its platforms because they were valuable future customers, while claiming otherwise to parents and regulators. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/230816-Dublin-Womens-Prison-Suit-MD-01_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12037105\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/230816-Dublin-Womens-Prison-Suit-MD-01_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/230816-Dublin-Womens-Prison-Suit-MD-01_qed-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/230816-Dublin-Womens-Prison-Suit-MD-01_qed-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/230816-Dublin-Womens-Prison-Suit-MD-01_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/230816-Dublin-Womens-Prison-Suit-MD-01_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/230816-Dublin-Womens-Prison-Suit-MD-01_qed-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The Federal Courthouse in Oakland on Aug. 16, 2023. (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In a statement released Tuesday, a Meta spokesperson wrote, “We strongly disagree with these allegations and are confident the evidence will show our longstanding commitment to supporting young people. We’ve listened to parents, worked with experts and law enforcement, and conducted in-depth research to understand the issues that matter most. We’re proud of the progress we’ve made, and we’re always working to do better.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In pre-trial documents, the states have calculated Meta \u003ca href=\"https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67908468/465/5/people-of-the-state-of-california-v-meta-platforms-inc/\">could owe $1.4 trillion\u003c/a>, roughly as much as the company is worth on Wall Street. Legal observers say that demand is not expected to survive the trial or the appeal likely to follow, but money is not the only demand. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The states also want the court to order Meta to redesign its platforms to alter some of the very features that have made its products \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11965392/us-states-sue-meta-for-addictive-apps-fueling-youth-mental-health-crisis\">sticky enough\u003c/a> to attract \u003ca href=\"https://investor.atmeta.com/investor-news/press-release-details/2026/Meta-Reports-Second-Quarter-2026-Results/default.aspx\">3.6 billion people\u003c/a> around the globe.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“You’re talking about platforms that were never designed for kids to begin with,” said Dr. Jen King, privacy and data policy fellow at the Stanford Institute for Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence. “So every feature there is really around engaging adults, designed to engage adults, without much thought to what would be developmentally appropriate design.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Internal documents released by \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2023/11/07/1211339737/meta-failed-to-address-harm-to-teens-whistleblower-testifies-as-senators-vow-act\">whistleblowers\u003c/a> have revealed that Meta’s own research showed how their site’s features could be harmful to teens, and that the company didn’t change course. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Meta has always officially required Facebook and Instagram users to be at least 13 years old, in conformity with federal law. It was not until September of 2024 that the company launched \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12084499/momfluencers-for-hire-metas-campaign-to-reshape-its-child-safety-image-faces-scrutiny\">age-appropriate versions\u003c/a> of Instagram for users ages 13 to 17, with content filters, screen time limits and parental supervision tools. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Meta has long been able to tell when users are underage, King said. “Even if they’ve lied about their age, it’s usually easy to tell by who they’re friends with, or what their activities are, what they like.” She said that internal documents demonstrate Meta platforms actually encouraged underage users, “because that’s their future user base.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The outcome of the Oakland case has the potential to drive a stake through the heart of not just Meta, but social media at large, according to Eric Goldman, associate dean for research and professor at Santa Clara University School of Law.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“These lawsuits are really existential in nature. The stakes here are about whether or not players can even exist in the industry,” he told KQED. $1.4 trillion, even if the plaintiffs downsize their demand during the trial, is “a very powerful statement, and from my perspective, a chilling statement,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In Meta’s most recent \u003ca href=\"https://investor.atmeta.com/investor-news/press-release-details/2026/Meta-Reports-Second-Quarter-2026-Results/default.aspx\">earnings report\u003c/a>, CFO Susan Li said, “We continue to see scrutiny on youth-related issues in several markets and have a number of youth-related trials scheduled for this year in the U.S., which may ultimately result in a material loss.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TeenagersMetaSocialMediaGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12084574\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TeenagersMetaSocialMediaGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TeenagersMetaSocialMediaGetty-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TeenagersMetaSocialMediaGetty-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A 14-year-old boy holds an iPhone with various social media and messaging apps on Feb. 23, 2026. (Anna Barclay/Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Since \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/12/10/nx-s1-5639694/social-media-ban-children-australia\">Australia barred children under 16\u003c/a> from using social media in 2025, more than two dozen countries have enacted bans or begun considering similar restrictions. While the Trump administration appears unlikely to follow suit, several states are moving forward on their own.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>California lawmakers are weighing \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260AB1709\">AB 1709\u003c/a>, which would bar social media companies from serving addictive features to users under 16, and create an online safety commission inside the Department of Justice to advise the attorney general on enforcing it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Meanwhile, social media companies are fighting thousands of lawsuits brought by individuals, school districts and states, with much of that litigation consolidated into large court cases in California. The \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101913414/addictive-social-media-is-harmful-to-youth-jury-says\">first to reach a jury\u003c/a> was brought by a young woman identified as K.G.M.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In May, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/meta-school-lawsuit-settlement-tiktok-snap-b20cdfe88dbcb55fb14808fe7f9c7372\">\u003c/a>Meta settled a suit brought by a \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/meta-school-lawsuit-settlement-tiktok-snap-b20cdfe88dbcb55fb14808fe7f9c7372\">Kentucky school district\u003c/a>. This month, a teenage plaintiff \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/world/teen-plaintiff-suing-meta-over-mental-health-harms-drops-his-claims-against-2026-07-22/\">dropped his suit\u003c/a> against Meta after settling with co-defendants YouTube, Snap and TikTok. Meta said it would continue to fight “baseless” lawsuits, noting the evidence showed the plaintiff in that case averaged just minutes a day on Facebook and Instagram, and he created most accounts only after hiring a lawyer.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Meta has expressed willingness to work with the states to make its products safer while calling the damage request of more than $1 trillion a “staggering” figure. “A sanction of that size has no analog in the history of consumer protection enforcement,” the company said in a \u003ca href=\"https://ecf.cand.uscourts.gov/doc1/035027386042?caseid=419868\">filing\u003c/a> in Oakland.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1281\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-11789507\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920-800x534.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920-1020x681.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920-1200x801.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">California, Colorado, Kentucky and New Jersey argue Meta built features it knew would hook young users, and kept children under 13 on its platforms because they were valuable future customers, while claiming otherwise to parents and regulators. (Chandan Khanna/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Gonzalez Rogers has shown an appetite for taking on complex Silicon Valley court cases. In April, she presided over Musk v. Altman et al, showing no hesitation in keeping witnesses and lawyers in check, and carefully pruning the focus of the trial. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Legal analysts saw many of her moves as strategic, designed to avoid a sprawling trial that could have lasted for months. Close readings of her pre-trial rulings also hinted that she viewed Elon Musk’s claims with \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12082428/inside-sam-altman-and-elon-musks-battle-over-openai\">more than a dollop of skepticism\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Goldman said he sees evidence the judge is already leaning against Meta. “What has stood out to me is that the defendants just cannot get a break with this judge. Everything they’re arguing is just bouncing right off of her.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Meta gave the judge seven arguments for throwing out the deception claims, including that social media addiction doesn’t exist and can’t be proven. Gonzalez Rogers \u003ca href=\"https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bonta-secures-court-decision-largely-denying-meta%E2%80%99s-attempt\">rejected all of them\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Meta also said that federal children’s privacy law doesn’t apply, because Facebook and Instagram are built for general audiences and the company doesn’t know which users are under 13. Gonzalez Rogers sent that question to the jury, finding that children “at least partially” could be targets of the platforms.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/TeenAIGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12094089\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/TeenAIGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/TeenAIGetty-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/TeenAIGetty-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Four states, including California, say Meta built Facebook and Instagram to hook kids and hid what it knew. (Fiordaliso/Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Gonzalez Rogers has demonstrated pre-trial skepticism of both sides. She characterized the states’ proposed penalties as \u003ca href=\"https://www.law360.com/articles/2502815/judge-decries-extreme-penalty-bids-in-social-media-mdl\">extreme\u003c/a>, while also noting that Meta’s counterproposal of $4 million was underwhelming for a business of its size.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Meta has said much of the litigation is attempting to fix a multi-faceted societal issue but wouldn’t effectively stop young people from using other types of social media, let alone its own.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>But King at Stanford said Meta and other social media companies are being challenged in court because they have \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11905230/do-federal-lawmakers-have-the-stomach-to-rein-in-big-tech\">effectively shut down\u003c/a> most efforts at state and federal regulation. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The types of heavy-handed policy instruments we are seeing floated right now, the outright bans, the age gating, age verification measures, are really the result of the companies not giving any ground,” King said. “They haven’t been willing to do it, because they know that it will drastically affect their bottom line.”\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Since the dawn of social media, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/meta\">Meta\u003c/a> and other platforms have faced lawsuits charging that the sites caused harm to their users. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The companies have largely shielded themselves from those legal attacks, arguing they are not responsible for content published on their sites. But in the last two years, plaintiffs’ lawyers and state attorneys general have found success with a new strategy: arguing social media companies knowingly designed their products and policies in ways that could harm children. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The companies have largely shielded themselves from those legal attacks, arguing they are not responsible for content published on their sites. But in the last two years, plaintiffs’ lawyers and state attorneys general have found success with a new strategy: arguing social media companies knowingly designed their products and policies in ways that could harm children. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101913414/addictive-social-media-is-harmful-to-youth-jury-says\">Earlier this year,\u003c/a> Meta attorneys faced two juries and lost in both cases. A Los Angeles jury held Meta and Google’s YouTube liable for negligent design. A New Mexico jury found the company willfully violated state consumer-protection laws. The judge \u003ca href=\"https://www.wsj.com/tech/meta-ordered-to-pay-942-million-to-address-harm-to-kids-from-social-media-8ba5aab7?mod=e2li\">ordered Meta to pay $942 million\u003c/a> and change how its products work for young users in that state. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101913414/addictive-social-media-is-harmful-to-youth-jury-says\">Earlier this year,\u003c/a> Meta attorneys faced two juries and lost in both cases. A Los Angeles jury held Meta and Google’s YouTube liable for negligent design. A New Mexico jury found the company willfully violated state consumer-protection laws. The judge \u003ca href=\"https://www.wsj.com/tech/meta-ordered-to-pay-942-million-to-address-harm-to-kids-from-social-media-8ba5aab7?mod=e2li\">ordered Meta to pay $942 million\u003c/a> and change how its products work for young users in that state. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Starting this week in Oakland, the company faces its biggest challenge yet, when a federal trial brought by \u003ca href=\"https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bonta-files-lawsuit-against-meta-over-harms-youth-mental-health\">four state attorneys general\u003c/a> goes before Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers. California, Colorado, Kentucky and New Jersey argue Meta built features it knew would hook young users, and kept children under 13 on its platforms because they were valuable future customers, while claiming otherwise to parents and regulators. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Starting this week in Oakland, the company faces its biggest challenge yet, when a federal trial brought by \u003ca href=\"https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bonta-files-lawsuit-against-meta-over-harms-youth-mental-health\">four state attorneys general\u003c/a> goes before Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers. California, Colorado, Kentucky and New Jersey argue Meta built features it knew would hook young users, and kept children under 13 on its platforms because they were valuable future customers, while claiming otherwise to parents and regulators. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In a statement released Tuesday, a Meta spokesperson wrote, “We strongly disagree with these allegations and are confident the evidence will show our longstanding commitment to supporting young people. We’ve listened to parents, worked with experts and law enforcement, and conducted in-depth research to understand the issues that matter most. We’re proud of the progress we’ve made, and we’re always working to do better.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>In a statement released Tuesday, a Meta spokesperson wrote, “We strongly disagree with these allegations and are confident the evidence will show our longstanding commitment to supporting young people. We’ve listened to parents, worked with experts and law enforcement, and conducted in-depth research to understand the issues that matter most. We’re proud of the progress we’ve made, and we’re always working to do better.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In pre-trial documents, the states have calculated Meta \u003ca href=\"https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67908468/465/5/people-of-the-state-of-california-v-meta-platforms-inc/\">could owe $1.4 trillion\u003c/a>, roughly as much as the company is worth on Wall Street. Legal observers say that demand is not expected to survive the trial or the appeal likely to follow, but money is not the only demand. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>In pre-trial documents, the states have calculated Meta \u003ca href=\"https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67908468/465/5/people-of-the-state-of-california-v-meta-platforms-inc/\">could owe $1.4 trillion\u003c/a>, roughly as much as the company is worth on Wall Street. Legal observers say that demand is not expected to survive the trial or the appeal likely to follow, but money is not the only demand. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The states also want the court to order Meta to redesign its platforms to alter some of the very features that have made its products \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11965392/us-states-sue-meta-for-addictive-apps-fueling-youth-mental-health-crisis\">sticky enough\u003c/a> to attract \u003ca href=\"https://investor.atmeta.com/investor-news/press-release-details/2026/Meta-Reports-Second-Quarter-2026-Results/default.aspx\">3.6 billion people\u003c/a> around the globe.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“You’re talking about platforms that were never designed for kids to begin with,” said Dr. Jen King, privacy and data policy fellow at the Stanford Institute for Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence. “So every feature there is really around engaging adults, designed to engage adults, without much thought to what would be developmentally appropriate design.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Meta has always officially required Facebook and Instagram users to be at least 13 years old, in conformity with federal law. It was not until September of 2024 that the company launched \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12084499/momfluencers-for-hire-metas-campaign-to-reshape-its-child-safety-image-faces-scrutiny\">age-appropriate versions\u003c/a> of Instagram for users ages 13 to 17, with content filters, screen time limits and parental supervision tools. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Meta has long been able to tell when users are underage, King said. “Even if they’ve lied about their age, it’s usually easy to tell by who they’re friends with, or what their activities are, what they like.” She said that internal documents demonstrate Meta platforms actually encouraged underage users, “because that’s their future user base.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Meta has long been able to tell when users are underage, King said. “Even if they’ve lied about their age, it’s usually easy to tell by who they’re friends with, or what their activities are, what they like.” She said that internal documents demonstrate Meta platforms actually encouraged underage users, “because that’s their future user base.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The outcome of the Oakland case has the potential to drive a stake through the heart of not just Meta, but social media at large, according to Eric Goldman, associate dean for research and professor at Santa Clara University School of Law.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The outcome of the Oakland case has the potential to drive a stake through the heart of not just Meta, but social media at large, according to Eric Goldman, associate dean for research and professor at Santa Clara University School of Law.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“These lawsuits are really existential in nature. The stakes here are about whether or not players can even exist in the industry,” he told KQED. $1.4 trillion, even if the plaintiffs downsize their demand during the trial, is “a very powerful statement, and from my perspective, a chilling statement,” he said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“These lawsuits are really existential in nature. The stakes here are about whether or not players can even exist in the industry,” he told KQED. $1.4 trillion, even if the plaintiffs downsize their demand during the trial, is “a very powerful statement, and from my perspective, a chilling statement,” he said.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In Meta’s most recent \u003ca href=\"https://investor.atmeta.com/investor-news/press-release-details/2026/Meta-Reports-Second-Quarter-2026-Results/default.aspx\">earnings report\u003c/a>, CFO Susan Li said, “We continue to see scrutiny on youth-related issues in several markets and have a number of youth-related trials scheduled for this year in the U.S., which may ultimately result in a material loss.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>In Meta’s most recent \u003ca href=\"https://investor.atmeta.com/investor-news/press-release-details/2026/Meta-Reports-Second-Quarter-2026-Results/default.aspx\">earnings report\u003c/a>, CFO Susan Li said, “We continue to see scrutiny on youth-related issues in several markets and have a number of youth-related trials scheduled for this year in the U.S., which may ultimately result in a material loss.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TeenagersMetaSocialMediaGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12084574\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TeenagersMetaSocialMediaGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TeenagersMetaSocialMediaGetty-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TeenagersMetaSocialMediaGetty-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A 14-year-old boy holds an iPhone with various social media and messaging apps on Feb. 23, 2026. \u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TeenagersMetaSocialMediaGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12084574\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A 14-year-old boy holds an iPhone with various social media and messaging apps on Feb. 23, 2026. \u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Since \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/12/10/nx-s1-5639694/social-media-ban-children-australia\">Australia barred children under 16\u003c/a> from using social media in 2025, more than two dozen countries have enacted bans or begun considering similar restrictions. While the Trump administration appears unlikely to follow suit, several states are moving forward on their own.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>California lawmakers are weighing \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260AB1709\">AB 1709\u003c/a>, which would bar social media companies from serving addictive features to users under 16, and create an online safety commission inside the Department of Justice to advise the attorney general on enforcing it. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>California lawmakers are weighing \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260AB1709\">AB 1709\u003c/a>, which would bar social media companies from serving addictive features to users under 16, and create an online safety commission inside the Department of Justice to advise the attorney general on enforcing it. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Meanwhile, social media companies are fighting thousands of lawsuits brought by individuals, school districts and states, with much of that litigation consolidated into large court cases in California. The \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101913414/addictive-social-media-is-harmful-to-youth-jury-says\">first to reach a jury\u003c/a> was brought by a young woman identified as K.G.M.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Meanwhile, social media companies are fighting thousands of lawsuits brought by individuals, school districts and states, with much of that litigation consolidated into large court cases in California. The \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101913414/addictive-social-media-is-harmful-to-youth-jury-says\">first to reach a jury\u003c/a> was brought by a young woman identified as K.G.M.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In May, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/meta-school-lawsuit-settlement-tiktok-snap-b20cdfe88dbcb55fb14808fe7f9c7372\">\u003c/a>Meta settled a suit brought by a \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/meta-school-lawsuit-settlement-tiktok-snap-b20cdfe88dbcb55fb14808fe7f9c7372\">Kentucky school district\u003c/a>. This month, a teenage plaintiff \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/world/teen-plaintiff-suing-meta-over-mental-health-harms-drops-his-claims-against-2026-07-22/\">dropped his suit\u003c/a> against Meta after settling with co-defendants YouTube, Snap and TikTok. Meta said it would continue to fight “baseless” lawsuits, noting the evidence showed the plaintiff in that case averaged just minutes a day on Facebook and Instagram, and he created most accounts only after hiring a lawyer.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>In May, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/meta-school-lawsuit-settlement-tiktok-snap-b20cdfe88dbcb55fb14808fe7f9c7372\">\u003c/a>Meta settled a suit brought by a \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/meta-school-lawsuit-settlement-tiktok-snap-b20cdfe88dbcb55fb14808fe7f9c7372\">Kentucky school district\u003c/a>. This month, a teenage plaintiff \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/world/teen-plaintiff-suing-meta-over-mental-health-harms-drops-his-claims-against-2026-07-22/\">dropped his suit\u003c/a> against Meta after settling with co-defendants YouTube, Snap and TikTok. Meta said it would continue to fight “baseless” lawsuits, noting the evidence showed the plaintiff in that case averaged just minutes a day on Facebook and Instagram, and he created most accounts only after hiring a lawyer.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Meta has expressed willingness to work with the states to make its products safer while calling the damage request of more than $1 trillion a “staggering” figure. “A sanction of that size has no analog in the history of consumer protection enforcement,” the company said in a \u003ca href=\"https://ecf.cand.uscourts.gov/doc1/035027386042?caseid=419868\">filing\u003c/a> in Oakland.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Meta has expressed willingness to work with the states to make its products safer while calling the damage request of more than $1 trillion a “staggering” figure. “A sanction of that size has no analog in the history of consumer protection enforcement,” the company said in a \u003ca href=\"https://ecf.cand.uscourts.gov/doc1/035027386042?caseid=419868\">filing\u003c/a> in Oakland.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-11789507\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920-800x534.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920-1020x681.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920-1200x801.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">California, Colorado, Kentucky and New Jersey argue Meta built features it knew would hook young users, and kept children under 13 on its platforms because they were valuable future customers, while claiming otherwise to parents and regulators. \u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Gonzalez Rogers has shown an appetite for taking on complex Silicon Valley court cases. In April, she presided over Musk v. Altman et al, showing no hesitation in keeping witnesses and lawyers in check, and carefully pruning the focus of the trial. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Gonzalez Rogers has shown an appetite for taking on complex Silicon Valley court cases. In April, she presided over Musk v. Altman et al, showing no hesitation in keeping witnesses and lawyers in check, and carefully pruning the focus of the trial. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Legal analysts saw many of her moves as strategic, designed to avoid a sprawling trial that could have lasted for months. Close readings of her pre-trial rulings also hinted that she viewed Elon Musk’s claims with \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12082428/inside-sam-altman-and-elon-musks-battle-over-openai\">more than a dollop of skepticism\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Legal analysts saw many of her moves as strategic, designed to avoid a sprawling trial that could have lasted for months. Close readings of her pre-trial rulings also hinted that she viewed Elon Musk’s claims with \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12082428/inside-sam-altman-and-elon-musks-battle-over-openai\">more than a dollop of skepticism\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Goldman said he sees evidence the judge is already leaning against Meta. “What has stood out to me is that the defendants just cannot get a break with this judge. Everything they’re arguing is just bouncing right off of her.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Goldman said he sees evidence the judge is already leaning against Meta. “What has stood out to me is that the defendants just cannot get a break with this judge. Everything they’re arguing is just bouncing right off of her.” \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Meta gave the judge seven arguments for throwing out the deception claims, including that social media addiction doesn’t exist and can’t be proven. Gonzalez Rogers \u003ca href=\"https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bonta-secures-court-decision-largely-denying-meta%E2%80%99s-attempt\">rejected all of them\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Meta gave the judge seven arguments for throwing out the deception claims, including that social media addiction doesn’t exist and can’t be proven. Gonzalez Rogers \u003ca href=\"https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bonta-secures-court-decision-largely-denying-meta%E2%80%99s-attempt\">rejected all of them\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Meta also said that federal children’s privacy law doesn’t apply, because Facebook and Instagram are built for general audiences and the company doesn’t know which users are under 13. Gonzalez Rogers sent that question to the jury, finding that children “at least partially” could be targets of the platforms.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Meta also said that federal children’s privacy law doesn’t apply, because Facebook and Instagram are built for general audiences and the company doesn’t know which users are under 13. Gonzalez Rogers sent that question to the jury, finding that children “at least partially” could be targets of the platforms.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/TeenAIGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12094089\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/TeenAIGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/TeenAIGetty-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/TeenAIGetty-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Four states, including California, say Meta built Facebook and Instagram to hook kids and hid what it knew. \u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/TeenAIGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12094089\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Four states, including California, say Meta built Facebook and Instagram to hook kids and hid what it knew. \u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Gonzalez Rogers has demonstrated pre-trial skepticism of both sides. She characterized the states’ proposed penalties as \u003ca href=\"https://www.law360.com/articles/2502815/judge-decries-extreme-penalty-bids-in-social-media-mdl\">extreme\u003c/a>, while also noting that Meta’s counterproposal of $4 million was underwhelming for a business of its size.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Meta has said much of the litigation is attempting to fix a multi-faceted societal issue but wouldn’t effectively stop young people from using other types of social media, let alone its own.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>But King at Stanford said Meta and other social media companies are being challenged in court because they have \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11905230/do-federal-lawmakers-have-the-stomach-to-rein-in-big-tech\">effectively shut down\u003c/a> most efforts at state and federal regulation. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“The types of heavy-handed policy instruments we are seeing floated right now, the outright bans, the age gating, age verification measures, are really the result of the companies not giving any ground,” King said. “They haven’t been willing to do it, because they know that it will drastically affect their bottom line.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Since the dawn of social media, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/meta\">Meta\u003c/a> and other platforms have faced lawsuits charging that the sites caused harm to their users. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The companies have largely shielded themselves from those legal attacks, arguing they are not responsible for content published on their sites. But in the last two years, plaintiffs’ lawyers and state attorneys general have found success with a new strategy: arguing social media companies knowingly designed their products and policies in ways that could harm children. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101913414/addictive-social-media-is-harmful-to-youth-jury-says\">Earlier this year,\u003c/a> Meta attorneys faced two juries and lost in both cases. A Los Angeles jury held Meta and Google’s YouTube liable for negligent design. A New Mexico jury found the company willfully violated state consumer-protection laws. The judge \u003ca href=\"https://www.wsj.com/tech/meta-ordered-to-pay-942-million-to-address-harm-to-kids-from-social-media-8ba5aab7?mod=e2li\">ordered Meta to pay $942 million\u003c/a> and change how its products work for young users in that state. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Starting this week in Oakland, the company faces its biggest challenge yet, when a federal trial brought by \u003ca href=\"https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bonta-files-lawsuit-against-meta-over-harms-youth-mental-health\">four state attorneys general\u003c/a> goes before Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers. California, Colorado, Kentucky and New Jersey argue Meta built features it knew would hook young users, and kept children under 13 on its platforms because they were valuable future customers, while claiming otherwise to parents and regulators. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/230816-Dublin-Womens-Prison-Suit-MD-01_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12037105\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/230816-Dublin-Womens-Prison-Suit-MD-01_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/230816-Dublin-Womens-Prison-Suit-MD-01_qed-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/230816-Dublin-Womens-Prison-Suit-MD-01_qed-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/230816-Dublin-Womens-Prison-Suit-MD-01_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/230816-Dublin-Womens-Prison-Suit-MD-01_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/230816-Dublin-Womens-Prison-Suit-MD-01_qed-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The Federal Courthouse in Oakland on Aug. 16, 2023. (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In a statement released Tuesday, a Meta spokesperson wrote, “We strongly disagree with these allegations and are confident the evidence will show our longstanding commitment to supporting young people. We’ve listened to parents, worked with experts and law enforcement, and conducted in-depth research to understand the issues that matter most. We’re proud of the progress we’ve made, and we’re always working to do better.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In pre-trial documents, the states have calculated Meta \u003ca href=\"https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67908468/465/5/people-of-the-state-of-california-v-meta-platforms-inc/\">could owe $1.4 trillion\u003c/a>, roughly as much as the company is worth on Wall Street. Legal observers say that demand is not expected to survive the trial or the appeal likely to follow, but money is not the only demand. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The states also want the court to order Meta to redesign its platforms to alter some of the very features that have made its products \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11965392/us-states-sue-meta-for-addictive-apps-fueling-youth-mental-health-crisis\">sticky enough\u003c/a> to attract \u003ca href=\"https://investor.atmeta.com/investor-news/press-release-details/2026/Meta-Reports-Second-Quarter-2026-Results/default.aspx\">3.6 billion people\u003c/a> around the globe.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“You’re talking about platforms that were never designed for kids to begin with,” said Dr. Jen King, privacy and data policy fellow at the Stanford Institute for Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence. “So every feature there is really around engaging adults, designed to engage adults, without much thought to what would be developmentally appropriate design.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Internal documents released by \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2023/11/07/1211339737/meta-failed-to-address-harm-to-teens-whistleblower-testifies-as-senators-vow-act\">whistleblowers\u003c/a> have revealed that Meta’s own research showed how their site’s features could be harmful to teens, and that the company didn’t change course. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Meta has always officially required Facebook and Instagram users to be at least 13 years old, in conformity with federal law. It was not until September of 2024 that the company launched \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12084499/momfluencers-for-hire-metas-campaign-to-reshape-its-child-safety-image-faces-scrutiny\">age-appropriate versions\u003c/a> of Instagram for users ages 13 to 17, with content filters, screen time limits and parental supervision tools. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Meta has long been able to tell when users are underage, King said. “Even if they’ve lied about their age, it’s usually easy to tell by who they’re friends with, or what their activities are, what they like.” She said that internal documents demonstrate Meta platforms actually encouraged underage users, “because that’s their future user base.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The outcome of the Oakland case has the potential to drive a stake through the heart of not just Meta, but social media at large, according to Eric Goldman, associate dean for research and professor at Santa Clara University School of Law.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“These lawsuits are really existential in nature. The stakes here are about whether or not players can even exist in the industry,” he told KQED. $1.4 trillion, even if the plaintiffs downsize their demand during the trial, is “a very powerful statement, and from my perspective, a chilling statement,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In Meta’s most recent \u003ca href=\"https://investor.atmeta.com/investor-news/press-release-details/2026/Meta-Reports-Second-Quarter-2026-Results/default.aspx\">earnings report\u003c/a>, CFO Susan Li said, “We continue to see scrutiny on youth-related issues in several markets and have a number of youth-related trials scheduled for this year in the U.S., which may ultimately result in a material loss.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TeenagersMetaSocialMediaGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12084574\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TeenagersMetaSocialMediaGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TeenagersMetaSocialMediaGetty-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TeenagersMetaSocialMediaGetty-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A 14-year-old boy holds an iPhone with various social media and messaging apps on Feb. 23, 2026. (Anna Barclay/Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Since \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/12/10/nx-s1-5639694/social-media-ban-children-australia\">Australia barred children under 16\u003c/a> from using social media in 2025, more than two dozen countries have enacted bans or begun considering similar restrictions. While the Trump administration appears unlikely to follow suit, several states are moving forward on their own.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>California lawmakers are weighing \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260AB1709\">AB 1709\u003c/a>, which would bar social media companies from serving addictive features to users under 16, and create an online safety commission inside the Department of Justice to advise the attorney general on enforcing it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Meanwhile, social media companies are fighting thousands of lawsuits brought by individuals, school districts and states, with much of that litigation consolidated into large court cases in California. The \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101913414/addictive-social-media-is-harmful-to-youth-jury-says\">first to reach a jury\u003c/a> was brought by a young woman identified as K.G.M.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In May, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/meta-school-lawsuit-settlement-tiktok-snap-b20cdfe88dbcb55fb14808fe7f9c7372\">\u003c/a>Meta settled a suit brought by a \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/meta-school-lawsuit-settlement-tiktok-snap-b20cdfe88dbcb55fb14808fe7f9c7372\">Kentucky school district\u003c/a>. This month, a teenage plaintiff \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/world/teen-plaintiff-suing-meta-over-mental-health-harms-drops-his-claims-against-2026-07-22/\">dropped his suit\u003c/a> against Meta after settling with co-defendants YouTube, Snap and TikTok. Meta said it would continue to fight “baseless” lawsuits, noting the evidence showed the plaintiff in that case averaged just minutes a day on Facebook and Instagram, and he created most accounts only after hiring a lawyer.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Meta has expressed willingness to work with the states to make its products safer while calling the damage request of more than $1 trillion a “staggering” figure. “A sanction of that size has no analog in the history of consumer protection enforcement,” the company said in a \u003ca href=\"https://ecf.cand.uscourts.gov/doc1/035027386042?caseid=419868\">filing\u003c/a> in Oakland.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1281\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-11789507\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920-800x534.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920-1020x681.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920-1200x801.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">California, Colorado, Kentucky and New Jersey argue Meta built features it knew would hook young users, and kept children under 13 on its platforms because they were valuable future customers, while claiming otherwise to parents and regulators. (Chandan Khanna/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Gonzalez Rogers has shown an appetite for taking on complex Silicon Valley court cases. In April, she presided over Musk v. Altman et al, showing no hesitation in keeping witnesses and lawyers in check, and carefully pruning the focus of the trial. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Legal analysts saw many of her moves as strategic, designed to avoid a sprawling trial that could have lasted for months. Close readings of her pre-trial rulings also hinted that she viewed Elon Musk’s claims with \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12082428/inside-sam-altman-and-elon-musks-battle-over-openai\">more than a dollop of skepticism\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Goldman said he sees evidence the judge is already leaning against Meta. “What has stood out to me is that the defendants just cannot get a break with this judge. Everything they’re arguing is just bouncing right off of her.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Meta gave the judge seven arguments for throwing out the deception claims, including that social media addiction doesn’t exist and can’t be proven. Gonzalez Rogers \u003ca href=\"https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bonta-secures-court-decision-largely-denying-meta%E2%80%99s-attempt\">rejected all of them\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Meta also said that federal children’s privacy law doesn’t apply, because Facebook and Instagram are built for general audiences and the company doesn’t know which users are under 13. Gonzalez Rogers sent that question to the jury, finding that children “at least partially” could be targets of the platforms.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/TeenAIGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12094089\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/TeenAIGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/TeenAIGetty-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/TeenAIGetty-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Four states, including California, say Meta built Facebook and Instagram to hook kids and hid what it knew. (Fiordaliso/Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Gonzalez Rogers has demonstrated pre-trial skepticism of both sides. She characterized the states’ proposed penalties as \u003ca href=\"https://www.law360.com/articles/2502815/judge-decries-extreme-penalty-bids-in-social-media-mdl\">extreme\u003c/a>, while also noting that Meta’s counterproposal of $4 million was underwhelming for a business of its size.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Meta has said much of the litigation is attempting to fix a multi-faceted societal issue but wouldn’t effectively stop young people from using other types of social media, let alone its own.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>But King at Stanford said Meta and other social media companies are being challenged in court because they have \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11905230/do-federal-lawmakers-have-the-stomach-to-rein-in-big-tech\">effectively shut down\u003c/a> most efforts at state and federal regulation. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The types of heavy-handed policy instruments we are seeing floated right now, the outright bans, the age gating, age verification measures, are really the result of the companies not giving any ground,” King said. “They haven’t been willing to do it, because they know that it will drastically affect their bottom line.”\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "as-ai-therapists-dish-out-advice-california-lawmakers-try-to-set-some-limits",
"title": "As AI ‘Therapists’ Dish Out Advice, California Lawmakers Try to Set Some Limits",
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"headTitle": "As AI ‘Therapists’ Dish Out Advice, California Lawmakers Try to Set Some Limits | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003c!-- Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/ -->\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story was originally published by \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/\">CalMatters\u003c/a>. \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/subscribe-to-calmatters/\">Sign up\u003c/a> for their newsletters.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the matter of a few clicks and keystrokes, anyone can find themselves deep in conversation with “Psychologist,” \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/ai\">a chatbot\u003c/a> character that describes itself as an expert in “empathy” and “active listening.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It responds to messages of anxiety and sadness with reassurance. It asks questions and offers advice; it even responds with italicized nonverbal cues: “\u003cem>The psychologist’s expression softens with compassion\u003c/em>.” In smaller font, a disclaimer reads: “This is A.I. and not a real person. Treat everything it says as fiction.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As more people turn to chatbots for mental health help and advice — including by some estimates \u003ca href=\"https://sph.brown.edu/news/2025-11-18/teens-ai-chatbots\">one in eight teens and young adults\u003c/a> — legislators are in a race to keep up with the quickly developing technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Among the latest efforts is a bill that would add restrictions around the use of chatbot companions and other artificial intelligence-powered tools that people use to support mental healthcare or in lieu of professional help.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sen. \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/legislators/steve-padilla-165435\">Steve Padilla\u003c/a>, a San Diego Democrat and the bill’s author, said the intent is to draw a line: AI can be used for administrative purposes and to support clinicians, but it cannot practice psychotherapy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12094084\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1980px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12094084\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/GettyImages-2267080472.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1980\" height=\"1231\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/GettyImages-2267080472.jpg 1980w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/GettyImages-2267080472-160x99.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/GettyImages-2267080472-1536x955.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1980px) 100vw, 1980px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Senator Steve Padilla, commissioner on the California Coastal Commission. \u003ccite>(Nelvin C. Cepeda/The San Diego Union-Tribune via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We’re dealing with a new impactful technology that is unfolding and is deployed in our world at light speed, and so it is both extremely powerful and consequential,” Padilla said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The debate has taken on new urgency amid wrongful death lawsuits — some playing out in California federal courts — that accuse AI chatbot makers of contributing to users’ suicides.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260sb903\">Senate Bill 903\u003c/a> would ban companies from advertising chatbots as therapy. It would prohibit AI from making therapeutic decisions without the review of a licensed professional and require health providers to disclose and get a patient’s permission before using AI tools to record therapy sessions or to triage mental healthcare.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Consumer protections vs. innovation\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The bill is backed by professional associations that represent psychologists, therapists and counselors. Also behind the bill is the National Union of Healthcare Workers, which has been leading a push against unchecked use of artificial intelligence and digital tools in mental healthcare.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Most recently, the union \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/health/2026/07/kaiser-mental-health-ai-complaint/\">filed a complaint\u003c/a> with state regulators against Kaiser Permanente for its alleged use of an automated algorithm in mental health triaging.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Padilla and supporters argue that the legislation is needed to protect consumers from AI in both formal and informal spaces, but also to protect licensed professionals from being displaced by AI.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11963409\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11963409\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/10/231004-KAISER-STRIKE-MD-10-KQED.jpg\" alt='A large modern building with the words \"Kaiser Permanente\" across the top.' width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/10/231004-KAISER-STRIKE-MD-10-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/10/231004-KAISER-STRIKE-MD-10-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/10/231004-KAISER-STRIKE-MD-10-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/10/231004-KAISER-STRIKE-MD-10-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/10/231004-KAISER-STRIKE-MD-10-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/10/231004-KAISER-STRIKE-MD-10-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Kaiser Permanente Oakland Medical Center in Oakland on Oct. 4, 2023. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/hearings/279268#t=669&f=e564faf4d88bf6c955f241d3fb6627e1\">Le Ondra Clark Harvey\u003c/a>, chief executive officer at the California Behavioral Health Association, told lawmakers that without clear safeguards, chatbots can provide inaccurate information or mishandle crisis situations. “The difference between a licensed clinician and an automated response is not technical. It can be life altering,” Harvey said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Opposition to the bill has largely focused around the restrictions of AI use in formal clinical spaces. TechNet, which represents tech-sector companies, argues the legislation could restrict beneficial uses of AI in healthcare and stifle innovation. \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/hearings/279268#t=900&f=e564faf4d88bf6c955f241d3fb6627e1\">Robert Boykin\u003c/a>, TechNet’s executive director for California, said the bill could limit the use of tools that help expand access to mental healthcare.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“At a time when every county in California faces a shortage of behavioral healthcare workers, SB 903 still puts a clinician bottleneck in front of the intake and screening tools that help patients reach care faster,” Boykin said in an emailed statement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill currently awaits its next vote in the Assembly’s fiscal committee.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Popular chatbot ‘therapy’\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Every day millions of people turn to AI chatbots through programs such as ChatGPT and Character.ai to help with research, work tasks and troubleshooting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But the top use of chatbots over the last two years has been companionship and “therapy,” \u003ca href=\"https://hbr.org/2026/06/how-people-are-really-using-ai-in-2026\">research shows.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Experts say that’s in part because of a tremendous amount of loneliness, especially among young people. It is often hard or costly to get timely mental healthcare at the same time there is a spike in mental health diagnoses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11989313\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11989313\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/GettyImages-2155035557-scaled-e1760733694503.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The OpenAI ChatGPT logo. \u003ccite>(Jaap Arriens/NurPhoto via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>People turn to chatbots “because they have unmet needs,” said Dr. Jodi Halpern, professor of bioethics and medical humanities at UC Berkeley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But once people start using chatbots in this informal way, she said companies rely on a business model built around maximizing engagement “including by manipulative tactics,” such as praise and agreement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>General chatbots are largely free, available 24/7, and involve no hassle with insurance, making them appealing to many. But they function with no oversight from licensed professionals.[aside postID=news_12092477 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/07/FINAL-2.png']In addition to general chatbots, there has also been a rapid uptick in AI-powered mental health apps — often requiring paid subscriptions and advertised as “pocket therapists” or “AI coaches.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Groups like the \u003ca href=\"https://www.apa.org/pubs/reports/chatbots-mental-health-2026\">American Psychological Association\u003c/a>, warn that chatbots are not a safe or effective replacement for true therapy. Trained clinicians look for cues like tone of voice, eye contact and body language and can detect more serious conditions; AI is not equipped to manage urgent symptoms, such as suicidal ideation, even though people increasingly share such thoughts with chatbots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>OpenAI, the maker of ChatGPT, revealed in a report last fall that about \u003ca href=\"https://abc7news.com/post/openai-data-estimates-1-million-people-talk-chatgpt-suicide-weekly/18086379/\">1.2 million users a week \u003c/a>share thoughts of suicide on the platform.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>OpenAI said that in such cases, it recommends people speak to a professional and directs them to resources like the 988 hotline. Families who have filed \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/09/19/nx-s1-5545749/ai-chatbots-safety-openai-meta-characterai-teens-suicide\">wrongful death lawsuits\u003c/a> against OpenAI and other companies claim chatbots assisted their loved ones through their suicide plans.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The cases have helped raise the stakes for lawmakers around the country. Last year, Illinois became the first state to pass a law prohibiting the use of AI in therapy services. A \u003ca href=\"https://www.beckersbehavioralhealth.com/ai-2/5-states-restrict-ai-therapy-chatbots-in-2026/\">handful of other states\u003c/a> have since followed with similar restrictions.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>AI use in health spaces\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>One gray area in the discussion is exactly which tools this bill applies to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>NUHW’s complaint against Kaiser targets its e-visit screening tool, which evaluates patients who think they may be experiencing anxiety or depression. According to the complaint, patients answer a multiple choice questionnaire and the tool “automatically and instantaneously generates care recommendations and referral pathways based on the responses provided.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The union argues that because care recommendations are generated so quickly, it is unlikely that a licensed professional is reviewing patients’ answers — which it says puts patients at risk and violates state law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12093589\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1980px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12093589\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/07/GettyImages-2202548335.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1980\" height=\"1320\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/07/GettyImages-2202548335.jpg 1980w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/07/GettyImages-2202548335-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/07/GettyImages-2202548335-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1980px) 100vw, 1980px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Signange of AI is displayed during the MWC (Mobile World Congress), the world’s biggest mobile fair, in Barcelona on March 3, 2025. \u003ccite>(Manaure Quintero/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>It’s not clear whether SB 903 would apply to Kaiser’s e-visit tool.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That tool is in a black box. Kaiser is not sharing with us or others about exactly how it works and exactly what it does,” said Benjamin Eichert, NUHW’s director of public policy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In response to the complaint, Kaiser told CalMatters its e-visit tool “does not use AI to diagnose patients, make clinical decisions, or determine medical necessity.”[aside postID=news_12093427 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/062923_Artificial_Intelligence_AI_REUTERS_CM_02-copy-1536x1024.jpg']Eichert said many other behavioral health provider groups are already advertising using AI during triage — a practice he said would fall under SB 903’s requirements.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That intake process, that triage and screening process, is where implementation (of AI) has happened fastest,” Eichert said. “That’s why those provisions were proposed because it’s an area where this technology is already being used without guardrails.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For NUHW, the bill and the complaint against Kaiser represent two tracks toward the same goal: reasserting the place of practitioners in spaces increasingly taken over by algorithms. State regulators are investigating the union’s complaint.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Supported by the California Health Care Foundation (CHCF), which works to ensure that people have access to the care they need, when they need it, at a price they can afford. Visit www.chcf.org to learn more.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This article was \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/health/mental-health/2026/08/at-therapists-chatbot-mental-health/\">originally published on CalMatters\u003c/a> and was republished under the \u003ca href=\"https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/\">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives\u003c/a> license.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"title": "As AI ‘Therapists’ Dish Out Advice, California Lawmakers Try to Set Some Limits | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003c!-- Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/ -->\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story was originally published by \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/\">CalMatters\u003c/a>. \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/subscribe-to-calmatters/\">Sign up\u003c/a> for their newsletters.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the matter of a few clicks and keystrokes, anyone can find themselves deep in conversation with “Psychologist,” \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/ai\">a chatbot\u003c/a> character that describes itself as an expert in “empathy” and “active listening.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It responds to messages of anxiety and sadness with reassurance. It asks questions and offers advice; it even responds with italicized nonverbal cues: “\u003cem>The psychologist’s expression softens with compassion\u003c/em>.” In smaller font, a disclaimer reads: “This is A.I. and not a real person. Treat everything it says as fiction.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As more people turn to chatbots for mental health help and advice — including by some estimates \u003ca href=\"https://sph.brown.edu/news/2025-11-18/teens-ai-chatbots\">one in eight teens and young adults\u003c/a> — legislators are in a race to keep up with the quickly developing technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Among the latest efforts is a bill that would add restrictions around the use of chatbot companions and other artificial intelligence-powered tools that people use to support mental healthcare or in lieu of professional help.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sen. \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/legislators/steve-padilla-165435\">Steve Padilla\u003c/a>, a San Diego Democrat and the bill’s author, said the intent is to draw a line: AI can be used for administrative purposes and to support clinicians, but it cannot practice psychotherapy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12094084\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1980px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12094084\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/GettyImages-2267080472.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1980\" height=\"1231\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/GettyImages-2267080472.jpg 1980w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/GettyImages-2267080472-160x99.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/GettyImages-2267080472-1536x955.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1980px) 100vw, 1980px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Senator Steve Padilla, commissioner on the California Coastal Commission. \u003ccite>(Nelvin C. Cepeda/The San Diego Union-Tribune via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We’re dealing with a new impactful technology that is unfolding and is deployed in our world at light speed, and so it is both extremely powerful and consequential,” Padilla said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The debate has taken on new urgency amid wrongful death lawsuits — some playing out in California federal courts — that accuse AI chatbot makers of contributing to users’ suicides.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260sb903\">Senate Bill 903\u003c/a> would ban companies from advertising chatbots as therapy. It would prohibit AI from making therapeutic decisions without the review of a licensed professional and require health providers to disclose and get a patient’s permission before using AI tools to record therapy sessions or to triage mental healthcare.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Consumer protections vs. innovation\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The bill is backed by professional associations that represent psychologists, therapists and counselors. Also behind the bill is the National Union of Healthcare Workers, which has been leading a push against unchecked use of artificial intelligence and digital tools in mental healthcare.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Most recently, the union \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/health/2026/07/kaiser-mental-health-ai-complaint/\">filed a complaint\u003c/a> with state regulators against Kaiser Permanente for its alleged use of an automated algorithm in mental health triaging.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Padilla and supporters argue that the legislation is needed to protect consumers from AI in both formal and informal spaces, but also to protect licensed professionals from being displaced by AI.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11963409\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11963409\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/10/231004-KAISER-STRIKE-MD-10-KQED.jpg\" alt='A large modern building with the words \"Kaiser Permanente\" across the top.' width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/10/231004-KAISER-STRIKE-MD-10-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/10/231004-KAISER-STRIKE-MD-10-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/10/231004-KAISER-STRIKE-MD-10-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/10/231004-KAISER-STRIKE-MD-10-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/10/231004-KAISER-STRIKE-MD-10-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/10/231004-KAISER-STRIKE-MD-10-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Kaiser Permanente Oakland Medical Center in Oakland on Oct. 4, 2023. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/hearings/279268#t=669&f=e564faf4d88bf6c955f241d3fb6627e1\">Le Ondra Clark Harvey\u003c/a>, chief executive officer at the California Behavioral Health Association, told lawmakers that without clear safeguards, chatbots can provide inaccurate information or mishandle crisis situations. “The difference between a licensed clinician and an automated response is not technical. It can be life altering,” Harvey said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Opposition to the bill has largely focused around the restrictions of AI use in formal clinical spaces. TechNet, which represents tech-sector companies, argues the legislation could restrict beneficial uses of AI in healthcare and stifle innovation. \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/hearings/279268#t=900&f=e564faf4d88bf6c955f241d3fb6627e1\">Robert Boykin\u003c/a>, TechNet’s executive director for California, said the bill could limit the use of tools that help expand access to mental healthcare.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“At a time when every county in California faces a shortage of behavioral healthcare workers, SB 903 still puts a clinician bottleneck in front of the intake and screening tools that help patients reach care faster,” Boykin said in an emailed statement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill currently awaits its next vote in the Assembly’s fiscal committee.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Popular chatbot ‘therapy’\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Every day millions of people turn to AI chatbots through programs such as ChatGPT and Character.ai to help with research, work tasks and troubleshooting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But the top use of chatbots over the last two years has been companionship and “therapy,” \u003ca href=\"https://hbr.org/2026/06/how-people-are-really-using-ai-in-2026\">research shows.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Experts say that’s in part because of a tremendous amount of loneliness, especially among young people. It is often hard or costly to get timely mental healthcare at the same time there is a spike in mental health diagnoses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11989313\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11989313\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/GettyImages-2155035557-scaled-e1760733694503.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The OpenAI ChatGPT logo. \u003ccite>(Jaap Arriens/NurPhoto via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>People turn to chatbots “because they have unmet needs,” said Dr. Jodi Halpern, professor of bioethics and medical humanities at UC Berkeley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But once people start using chatbots in this informal way, she said companies rely on a business model built around maximizing engagement “including by manipulative tactics,” such as praise and agreement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>General chatbots are largely free, available 24/7, and involve no hassle with insurance, making them appealing to many. But they function with no oversight from licensed professionals.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>In addition to general chatbots, there has also been a rapid uptick in AI-powered mental health apps — often requiring paid subscriptions and advertised as “pocket therapists” or “AI coaches.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Groups like the \u003ca href=\"https://www.apa.org/pubs/reports/chatbots-mental-health-2026\">American Psychological Association\u003c/a>, warn that chatbots are not a safe or effective replacement for true therapy. Trained clinicians look for cues like tone of voice, eye contact and body language and can detect more serious conditions; AI is not equipped to manage urgent symptoms, such as suicidal ideation, even though people increasingly share such thoughts with chatbots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>OpenAI, the maker of ChatGPT, revealed in a report last fall that about \u003ca href=\"https://abc7news.com/post/openai-data-estimates-1-million-people-talk-chatgpt-suicide-weekly/18086379/\">1.2 million users a week \u003c/a>share thoughts of suicide on the platform.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>OpenAI said that in such cases, it recommends people speak to a professional and directs them to resources like the 988 hotline. Families who have filed \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/09/19/nx-s1-5545749/ai-chatbots-safety-openai-meta-characterai-teens-suicide\">wrongful death lawsuits\u003c/a> against OpenAI and other companies claim chatbots assisted their loved ones through their suicide plans.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The cases have helped raise the stakes for lawmakers around the country. Last year, Illinois became the first state to pass a law prohibiting the use of AI in therapy services. A \u003ca href=\"https://www.beckersbehavioralhealth.com/ai-2/5-states-restrict-ai-therapy-chatbots-in-2026/\">handful of other states\u003c/a> have since followed with similar restrictions.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>AI use in health spaces\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>One gray area in the discussion is exactly which tools this bill applies to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>NUHW’s complaint against Kaiser targets its e-visit screening tool, which evaluates patients who think they may be experiencing anxiety or depression. According to the complaint, patients answer a multiple choice questionnaire and the tool “automatically and instantaneously generates care recommendations and referral pathways based on the responses provided.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The union argues that because care recommendations are generated so quickly, it is unlikely that a licensed professional is reviewing patients’ answers — which it says puts patients at risk and violates state law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12093589\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1980px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12093589\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/07/GettyImages-2202548335.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1980\" height=\"1320\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/07/GettyImages-2202548335.jpg 1980w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/07/GettyImages-2202548335-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/07/GettyImages-2202548335-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1980px) 100vw, 1980px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Signange of AI is displayed during the MWC (Mobile World Congress), the world’s biggest mobile fair, in Barcelona on March 3, 2025. \u003ccite>(Manaure Quintero/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>It’s not clear whether SB 903 would apply to Kaiser’s e-visit tool.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That tool is in a black box. Kaiser is not sharing with us or others about exactly how it works and exactly what it does,” said Benjamin Eichert, NUHW’s director of public policy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In response to the complaint, Kaiser told CalMatters its e-visit tool “does not use AI to diagnose patients, make clinical decisions, or determine medical necessity.”\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Eichert said many other behavioral health provider groups are already advertising using AI during triage — a practice he said would fall under SB 903’s requirements.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That intake process, that triage and screening process, is where implementation (of AI) has happened fastest,” Eichert said. “That’s why those provisions were proposed because it’s an area where this technology is already being used without guardrails.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For NUHW, the bill and the complaint against Kaiser represent two tracks toward the same goal: reasserting the place of practitioners in spaces increasingly taken over by algorithms. State regulators are investigating the union’s complaint.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Supported by the California Health Care Foundation (CHCF), which works to ensure that people have access to the care they need, when they need it, at a price they can afford. Visit www.chcf.org to learn more.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This article was \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/health/mental-health/2026/08/at-therapists-chatbot-mental-health/\">originally published on CalMatters\u003c/a> and was republished under the \u003ca href=\"https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/\">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives\u003c/a> license.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cem>This episode contains mentions of suicide. If you or someone you know is in crisis, call or text 988.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Starting August 14, San Francisco will remove peer specialists from its 911 response. These peer responders, equipped with both training and personal experience with issues like homelessness and addiction, say the decision is a regressive step in the city’s approach to mental and behavioral health emergencies.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-wp-embed is-provider-megaphone wp-block-embed-megaphone\">\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\nhttps://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC6632110452&light=true\n\u003c/div>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12092836/these-peers-provided-alternative-911-responders-san-francisco-is-removing-them\">These Peers Provided Alternative 911 Responders. San Francisco Is Removing Them\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\n\n\n\u003ch3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Episode transcript\u003c/h3>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This transcript is computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:57] \u003c/em>Hey, just a quick note before we get started. This episode includes mentions of suicide and addiction. Please take care while listening. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. It was early one morning outside of a cafe in San Francisco when Chantel Hernandez-Wood, who was homeless and in the throes of her addiction, was told she had to move. She wasn’t sure what her next move would be or where she’d go next, when about a block up, she saw a red van and made a decision that would change her life forever. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:47] \u003c/em>So I walked up there and I knocked on the window and I said, ‘I need help.’ \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:56] \u003c/em>It was San Francisco’s street crisis response team who respond to 911 calls alongside peer counselors, people who’ve had personal experience with homelessness, addiction, or mental illness.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:17] \u003c/em>And they took me to a sobering center. And from there I was placed in a detox and there I, I was in a 90 day program. And while I was sitting there in the 90 day program, I thought, you know, I’d really love to do what they were doing. They went above and beyond to help me get off the streets. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:40] \u003c/em>Today, Chantel is a peer counselor herself, working alongside emergency responders to help people suffering on the streets of San Francisco. It’s a program that’s been going on since 2020.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:57] \u003c/em>When someone says, I know how you’re feeling, I know what you’re going through, everybody can say that, but I really know what that feels like to be that individual. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:08] \u003c/em>But this program is about to change. Starting August 14, peer counselors will no longer accompany emergency responders on 911 calls. And advocates worry that without the firsthand expertise of peer counselors, more people will fall through the cracks. Today, what the end of peer support could mean for San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:40] \u003c/em>You’ll probably remember, in 2020, following the killing of George Floyd and several other police brutality incidents, there were protests all over the country.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:52] \u003c/em>Sydney Johnson is a reporter for KQED.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:56] \u003c/em>Calls for defunding the police. And, you know, those protests were happening here in the Bay Area. Even though San Francisco never defunded the police, there was a lot of interest in creating these sort of alternatives to having law enforcement and police respond to certain 911 emergencies. And one of those was the street crisis response team. These folks would drive around in red vans and they would respond to 911 calls for mental health emergencies. This could be happening on the street, someone having a psychiatric breakdown or potentially a domestic dispute up in a penthouse. It really ran the gamut. The teams were made up of EMTs, behavioral health clinicians, and peer responders. Peer responders were one of the more unique elements of this alternative response idea because they are not sworn officers, they did not arrive in uniform. They have lived experience, you know, with incarceration or potentially having gone through a mental health crisis themselves, substance use disorder. Having these types of experience that they’ve lived through. Was the expertise that the peers were bringing to these emergency responses also. And that group, the street crisis response team has been operating in San Francisco for about the last five years.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:40] \u003c/em>Yeah, I remember the context of this time, I mean, just going back to 2020, like so many conversations and examples of, I mean really one too many people in the midst of a mental health crisis ending up in either jails or the emergency rooms and not necessarily getting the help that they need. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:01] \u003c/em>Yeah, I mean, I think this was something that San Francisco had been talking about. How do we take some responsibilities off of the plate of police officers? And so there was also this thinking not of just how do we offer people who are going through crises potentially someone that they might relate to a little bit more in these scenarios, but also how do we make this whole system more efficient by pulling some of these responsibilities off of law enforcement’s plate. Maybe if there’s someone who’s trained in de-escalation, maybe we don’t have to send police in for backup. And actually, that was one of the outcomes of this program. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Harmon: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:40] \u003c/em>We’re a team for people that are crashing out and the crash out could look any type of way. If you have less money, you’re going to crash out more. That’s just the way it goes. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:49] \u003c/em>Amelia Harmon manages many of the peer responders for this program, which is part of the fire department. The street crisis response team falls under the fire department umbrella. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Harmon: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:01] \u003c/em>I’ve responded to panic attacks and first episode psychoses in penthouses. I have responded to, you know, the craziest wildest condos in Knob Hill, where people all of a sudden, like, fell off their medication and now their husband is calling on them because they’ve never seen them act like this before and they’re pulling out their hair. I’ve respond to calls in the marina where I literally just had to play with a woman’s baby while she was having a panic attack because her husband walked out on her.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:26] \u003c/em>In a lot of circumstances, first responders have a lot calls that they have to respond to. And they might be like: OK, there’s not a life and death situation happening here. We got to get to the next spot. And so something that Amelia has talked about that these peers can offer is just a little bit more of that human touch of making sure that people have what they need, even if the crisis has started to deescalate. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Harmon: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:52] \u003c/em>But on many, many calls, it really is the peer counselor that the people will disclose to, because in my capacity as a peer counselor, I can tell someone that I was suicidal. I can them how complicated it is to be recovering from depression, but still being suicidal, and managing the symptoms of how often I think about killing myself per day. And if I showed improvement of what that looks like, and I could show that to someone that’s currently struggling, that would help them accept the services. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:18] \u003c/em>How is training for these peer responders different from a typical emergency first responders? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:26] \u003c/em>I mean, you can take classes at San Francisco City College to be a peer responder, but you’re not necessarily getting the training of how to actually stop bleeding in a bullet wound. That is its own sort of set of training, but they are trained in just working with vulnerable populations and basically kind of learn how to translate what they’ve experienced into a bigger context of what did I need in those situations.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:59] \u003c/em>You know, when someone says, I know how you’re feeling, I know what you’re going through, you know, everybody can say that, but I really know what that feels like to be that individual. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:12] \u003c/em>I spoke with one of the peer responders. Her name is Chantelle Hernandez-Wood, and she is formerly unhoused and struggled with alcoholism in the past. After going through her own recovery journey, she became one of these peer responders \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:29] \u003c/em>It’s just surreal because I’m working on the same team that helps me when I needed help the most.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:41] \u003c/em>And so Chantel said there were just experience after experience where she would kind of be that first line of, how do we help you? And kind of breaking it down like, hey, I’ve been here before, too. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:55] \u003c/em>And I imagine really the goal being to get people access to the help that they need. And that being really the measurement of success for many of these peer responders. I mean, it’s been about five to six years since this program has been around. It sounds like anecdotally, there is this sense, at least among the responders themselves, that they have a really important role to play. But do we know how effective this program has actually been at getting people help?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:25] \u003c/em>There was a study that NYU did in 2024, so it’s been about two years, taking a look at San Francisco’s street crisis response team and these sort of alternatives that came up after 2020. And it really hails San Francisco as a model in this. And this study from NYU, you know, did say that their investments are showing positive results. It said that they the street crisis response team responds to roughly 29 calls a day in an average of 16 minutes each, and that in the vast majority of those calls, the police are not called upon for backup, which would save police resources and indicate that some of this care can be provided without police presence. So that’s pretty high marks for a program that was relatively new and in some regards experimental. Now, fast forward, the city has been really chipping away at this program.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:34] \u003c/em>Coming up, why San Francisco is taking peer support counselors off its streets and what it means going forward. By the way, if you want to support the work that we do here at KQED, consider becoming a KQED member, which you could do at donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:41] \u003c/em>I mean, we are talking now because these peers are being removed from the street crisis response team in San Francisco. Why?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:52] \u003c/em>“Why?” Is a very difficult question. I’ll back up actually to just say how this first got on my radar, actually. Amelia Harmon, who we chatted about earlier, she received information at a fire department commission meeting that the fire department was moving to pull peers off of these 911 response teams and that August 14th would be their last day. You know, she manages these people. She had not heard about this. No one had communicated this to her directly. This was a complete surprise to her. That’s what she says. It was a completely surprise. They hadn’t heard that the program was, you know, not performing or meeting expectations. She has, for the last several weeks, gone and spoken at multiple public meetings, the Health Commission, the Police Commission, Board of Supervisors. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Harmon: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:47] \u003c/em>Hi, good evening supervisors. My name is Amelia, District 9, speaking in my individual capacity. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:53] \u003c/em>Trying to tell people in positions of power, like, this is happening, and ask them, did you know? Like, is there a reason why? Like is anyone concerned about this? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Harmon: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:05] \u003c/em>From frontline workers to directors. No one that I spoke to had heard it anywhere else. They count on the non-uniformed peer support backed by our traditional first responders when they call 911 for their people, our people. One person on foot door to door. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:24] \u003c/em>Ultimately, this was a decision from the fire department. And when I reached out to the fire department to ask about it, they said that this was very carefully considered decision. They are not getting rid of the street crisis response team, that the street crises response team will still exist. But they are moving peers off of these rigs. And when I tried to push a little bit more on why, the reasoning that I was given was that it has been difficult scheduling with the peers themselves. They are not stationed at the firehouse or with the paramedics. There has to be sort of. An arrangement for a pickup along some of these routes. But yeah, it ultimately has come down to the fire department just deciding that this was not working for their vision for the program.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:15:20] \u003c/em>Yeah, it’s interesting that the reasoning is not something like this program isn’t working. It’s just sort of like an administrative issue. So then what does that then mean for, I mean, who is doing the work now of this sort of non-emergency emergency response in San Francisco?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:15:40] \u003c/em>Yeah, I mean, the city and the fire department is simultaneously working to expand and develop trained paramedics who have this additional layer of training in many of the things that the peers and behavioral health specialists brought to these rigs. Things like trauma informed responses, you know, extra training in how to direct people to certain social services. But you know what is different about the community paramedic versus the Dear Responders, is, you know, it’s subtle, but it’s important. This is what Amelia had to say about it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Harmon: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:17] \u003c/em>They come in uniforms and they come in steel-toed boots, and that matters. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:20] \u003c/em>They may not necessarily have the lived experience that a peer brought also, which was kind of at the core of what these peer responders were offering to people who were in crisis. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:34] \u003c/em>And again, that’s just not an experience that you can sit in a classroom and do a two hour training. Right. And I mean, I guess I wonder what someone like Chantal or Amelia worry that the city will really miss when it moves away from prioritizing this firsthand experience to help deal with some of the city’s most pressing issues. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:58] \u003c/em>Yeah, I mean both of them are pretty gutted. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:17:02] \u003c/em>Like I’ve been blindsided. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:17:03] \u003c/em>Chantel talked to me about this. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:17:05] \u003c/em>It’s just an incredible disservice to the community. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:17:08] \u003c/em>The rollout of this has been confusing, and a lot of people seem to not know what’s going on. But Chantal just said there’s been so many times in which she’s seen people on the street who specifically reached out to her in these moments.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:17:27] \u003c/em>It sounds like they’re worried that this is just gonna mean that fewer people are gonna get help when they’re in crisis in San Francisco. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:17:34] \u003c/em>Yeah, I think that’s that’s kind of one of the biggest fears that both Chantel and Amelia have is that if peers are no longer in these on these 911 calls that there will be people who fall through the cracks. You know, when I spoke to Chantell, I asked her, what is your plan after August 14th? You know? What are you going to do after you’re no longer going to be on these 911 calls? And You know, they still don’t know what’s going to be sort of their new offering or position or even if there’s going to be layoffs. But one thing that’s been suggested, I guess, maybe unofficially, is that these peer responders would be shifted to respond to 3-1-1 calls, these non-emergency sort of like handling like, you know, we need unhoused people to move. It’s very different from a 9-1 call. And Chantel just said that feels like. Very different from the expertise she’s been developing over the last few years in kind of these more emergency kind of healthcare sort of driven settings. And so if that is what she’s offered, she’s going to look for something else. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:18:46] \u003c/em>I mean, Sydney, it does seem like so much of the context that we’re living in has changed since 2020 and these conversations around these alternatives to policing, defunding the police. It feels like the conversations really swung in the opposite direction in San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:19:04] \u003c/em>Yeah, it probably has swung in the opposite direction in a lot of places in the country. Yeah. But when you think about the conversations that were being had in 2020 and 2021 about, you know, having these alternatives to policing or, you know, even having hearings in City Hall about what defunding the police would look like, you know, Even though that didn’t happen, it was, you know, still something that city officials were talking about and considering. We are so far from that now. You know, the police budget has only increased. There has been a huge push towards public safety, you know, just as a rallying cry in San Francisco. Within the conversation of public safety. You know homelessness and drug use and mental health often gets wrapped into that. And, you know sometimes unfairly, sometimes not. But I think what we’ve seen is also more arrests for people who are refusing shelter or who are using drugs outside. Obviously, these peer responders were not only handling street-level issues, but I think that moving them off of these 911 calls does signal a return to the more traditional policing approach that we saw. Before these conversations were had.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:20:41] \u003c/em>Well Sydney, thank you so much for sharing your reporting with me. I appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This transcript is computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This transcript is computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:57] \u003c/em>Hey, just a quick note before we get started. This episode includes mentions of suicide and addiction. Please take care while listening. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. It was early one morning outside of a cafe in San Francisco when Chantel Hernandez-Wood, who was homeless and in the throes of her addiction, was told she had to move. She wasn’t sure what her next move would be or where she’d go next, when about a block up, she saw a red van and made a decision that would change her life forever. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:57] \u003c/em>Hey, just a quick note before we get started. This episode includes mentions of suicide and addiction. Please take care while listening. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. It was early one morning outside of a cafe in San Francisco when Chantel Hernandez-Wood, who was homeless and in the throes of her addiction, was told she had to move. She wasn’t sure what her next move would be or where she’d go next, when about a block up, she saw a red van and made a decision that would change her life forever. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:47] \u003c/em>So I walked up there and I knocked on the window and I said, ‘I need help.’ \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:47] \u003c/em>So I walked up there and I knocked on the window and I said, ‘I need help.’ \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:56] \u003c/em>It was San Francisco’s street crisis response team who respond to 911 calls alongside peer counselors, people who’ve had personal experience with homelessness, addiction, or mental illness.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:56] \u003c/em>It was San Francisco’s street crisis response team who respond to 911 calls alongside peer counselors, people who’ve had personal experience with homelessness, addiction, or mental illness.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:17] \u003c/em>And they took me to a sobering center. And from there I was placed in a detox and there I, I was in a 90 day program. And while I was sitting there in the 90 day program, I thought, you know, I’d really love to do what they were doing. They went above and beyond to help me get off the streets. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:17] \u003c/em>And they took me to a sobering center. And from there I was placed in a detox and there I, I was in a 90 day program. And while I was sitting there in the 90 day program, I thought, you know, I’d really love to do what they were doing. They went above and beyond to help me get off the streets. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:40] \u003c/em>Today, Chantel is a peer counselor herself, working alongside emergency responders to help people suffering on the streets of San Francisco. It’s a program that’s been going on since 2020.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:40] \u003c/em>Today, Chantel is a peer counselor herself, working alongside emergency responders to help people suffering on the streets of San Francisco. It’s a program that’s been going on since 2020.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:57] \u003c/em>When someone says, I know how you’re feeling, I know what you’re going through, everybody can say that, but I really know what that feels like to be that individual. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:57] \u003c/em>When someone says, I know how you’re feeling, I know what you’re going through, everybody can say that, but I really know what that feels like to be that individual. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:08] \u003c/em>But this program is about to change. Starting August 14, peer counselors will no longer accompany emergency responders on 911 calls. And advocates worry that without the firsthand expertise of peer counselors, more people will fall through the cracks. Today, what the end of peer support could mean for San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:08] \u003c/em>But this program is about to change. Starting August 14, peer counselors will no longer accompany emergency responders on 911 calls. And advocates worry that without the firsthand expertise of peer counselors, more people will fall through the cracks. Today, what the end of peer support could mean for San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:40] \u003c/em>You’ll probably remember, in 2020, following the killing of George Floyd and several other police brutality incidents, there were protests all over the country.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:40] \u003c/em>You’ll probably remember, in 2020, following the killing of George Floyd and several other police brutality incidents, there were protests all over the country.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:52] \u003c/em>Sydney Johnson is a reporter for KQED.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:56] \u003c/em>Calls for defunding the police. And, you know, those protests were happening here in the Bay Area. Even though San Francisco never defunded the police, there was a lot of interest in creating these sort of alternatives to having law enforcement and police respond to certain 911 emergencies. And one of those was the street crisis response team. These folks would drive around in red vans and they would respond to 911 calls for mental health emergencies. This could be happening on the street, someone having a psychiatric breakdown or potentially a domestic dispute up in a penthouse. It really ran the gamut. The teams were made up of EMTs, behavioral health clinicians, and peer responders. Peer responders were one of the more unique elements of this alternative response idea because they are not sworn officers, they did not arrive in uniform. They have lived experience, you know, with incarceration or potentially having gone through a mental health crisis themselves, substance use disorder. Having these types of experience that they’ve lived through. Was the expertise that the peers were bringing to these emergency responses also. And that group, the street crisis response team has been operating in San Francisco for about the last five years.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:56] \u003c/em>Calls for defunding the police. And, you know, those protests were happening here in the Bay Area. Even though San Francisco never defunded the police, there was a lot of interest in creating these sort of alternatives to having law enforcement and police respond to certain 911 emergencies. And one of those was the street crisis response team. These folks would drive around in red vans and they would respond to 911 calls for mental health emergencies. This could be happening on the street, someone having a psychiatric breakdown or potentially a domestic dispute up in a penthouse. It really ran the gamut. The teams were made up of EMTs, behavioral health clinicians, and peer responders. Peer responders were one of the more unique elements of this alternative response idea because they are not sworn officers, they did not arrive in uniform. They have lived experience, you know, with incarceration or potentially having gone through a mental health crisis themselves, substance use disorder. Having these types of experience that they’ve lived through. Was the expertise that the peers were bringing to these emergency responses also. And that group, the street crisis response team has been operating in San Francisco for about the last five years.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:40] \u003c/em>Yeah, I remember the context of this time, I mean, just going back to 2020, like so many conversations and examples of, I mean really one too many people in the midst of a mental health crisis ending up in either jails or the emergency rooms and not necessarily getting the help that they need. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:01] \u003c/em>Yeah, I mean, I think this was something that San Francisco had been talking about. How do we take some responsibilities off of the plate of police officers? And so there was also this thinking not of just how do we offer people who are going through crises potentially someone that they might relate to a little bit more in these scenarios, but also how do we make this whole system more efficient by pulling some of these responsibilities off of law enforcement’s plate. Maybe if there’s someone who’s trained in de-escalation, maybe we don’t have to send police in for backup. And actually, that was one of the outcomes of this program. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:01] \u003c/em>Yeah, I mean, I think this was something that San Francisco had been talking about. How do we take some responsibilities off of the plate of police officers? And so there was also this thinking not of just how do we offer people who are going through crises potentially someone that they might relate to a little bit more in these scenarios, but also how do we make this whole system more efficient by pulling some of these responsibilities off of law enforcement’s plate. Maybe if there’s someone who’s trained in de-escalation, maybe we don’t have to send police in for backup. And actually, that was one of the outcomes of this program. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Harmon: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:40] \u003c/em>We’re a team for people that are crashing out and the crash out could look any type of way. If you have less money, you’re going to crash out more. That’s just the way it goes. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:49] \u003c/em>Amelia Harmon manages many of the peer responders for this program, which is part of the fire department. The street crisis response team falls under the fire department umbrella. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:49] \u003c/em>Amelia Harmon manages many of the peer responders for this program, which is part of the fire department. The street crisis response team falls under the fire department umbrella. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Harmon: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:01] \u003c/em>I’ve responded to panic attacks and first episode psychoses in penthouses. I have responded to, you know, the craziest wildest condos in Knob Hill, where people all of a sudden, like, fell off their medication and now their husband is calling on them because they’ve never seen them act like this before and they’re pulling out their hair. I’ve respond to calls in the marina where I literally just had to play with a woman’s baby while she was having a panic attack because her husband walked out on her.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Harmon: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:01] \u003c/em>I’ve responded to panic attacks and first episode psychoses in penthouses. I have responded to, you know, the craziest wildest condos in Knob Hill, where people all of a sudden, like, fell off their medication and now their husband is calling on them because they’ve never seen them act like this before and they’re pulling out their hair. I’ve respond to calls in the marina where I literally just had to play with a woman’s baby while she was having a panic attack because her husband walked out on her.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:26] \u003c/em>In a lot of circumstances, first responders have a lot calls that they have to respond to. And they might be like: OK, there’s not a life and death situation happening here. We got to get to the next spot. And so something that Amelia has talked about that these peers can offer is just a little bit more of that human touch of making sure that people have what they need, even if the crisis has started to deescalate. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Harmon: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:52] \u003c/em>But on many, many calls, it really is the peer counselor that the people will disclose to, because in my capacity as a peer counselor, I can tell someone that I was suicidal. I can them how complicated it is to be recovering from depression, but still being suicidal, and managing the symptoms of how often I think about killing myself per day. And if I showed improvement of what that looks like, and I could show that to someone that’s currently struggling, that would help them accept the services. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Harmon: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:52] \u003c/em>But on many, many calls, it really is the peer counselor that the people will disclose to, because in my capacity as a peer counselor, I can tell someone that I was suicidal. I can them how complicated it is to be recovering from depression, but still being suicidal, and managing the symptoms of how often I think about killing myself per day. And if I showed improvement of what that looks like, and I could show that to someone that’s currently struggling, that would help them accept the services. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:18] \u003c/em>How is training for these peer responders different from a typical emergency first responders? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:18] \u003c/em>How is training for these peer responders different from a typical emergency first responders? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:26] \u003c/em>I mean, you can take classes at San Francisco City College to be a peer responder, but you’re not necessarily getting the training of how to actually stop bleeding in a bullet wound. That is its own sort of set of training, but they are trained in just working with vulnerable populations and basically kind of learn how to translate what they’ve experienced into a bigger context of what did I need in those situations.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:26] \u003c/em>I mean, you can take classes at San Francisco City College to be a peer responder, but you’re not necessarily getting the training of how to actually stop bleeding in a bullet wound. That is its own sort of set of training, but they are trained in just working with vulnerable populations and basically kind of learn how to translate what they’ve experienced into a bigger context of what did I need in those situations.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:59] \u003c/em>You know, when someone says, I know how you’re feeling, I know what you’re going through, you know, everybody can say that, but I really know what that feels like to be that individual. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:59] \u003c/em>You know, when someone says, I know how you’re feeling, I know what you’re going through, you know, everybody can say that, but I really know what that feels like to be that individual. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:12] \u003c/em>I spoke with one of the peer responders. Her name is Chantelle Hernandez-Wood, and she is formerly unhoused and struggled with alcoholism in the past. After going through her own recovery journey, she became one of these peer responders \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:12] \u003c/em>I spoke with one of the peer responders. Her name is Chantelle Hernandez-Wood, and she is formerly unhoused and struggled with alcoholism in the past. After going through her own recovery journey, she became one of these peer responders \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:29] \u003c/em>It’s just surreal because I’m working on the same team that helps me when I needed help the most.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:29] \u003c/em>It’s just surreal because I’m working on the same team that helps me when I needed help the most.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:41] \u003c/em>And so Chantel said there were just experience after experience where she would kind of be that first line of, how do we help you? And kind of breaking it down like, hey, I’ve been here before, too. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:41] \u003c/em>And so Chantel said there were just experience after experience where she would kind of be that first line of, how do we help you? And kind of breaking it down like, hey, I’ve been here before, too. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:55] \u003c/em>And I imagine really the goal being to get people access to the help that they need. And that being really the measurement of success for many of these peer responders. I mean, it’s been about five to six years since this program has been around. It sounds like anecdotally, there is this sense, at least among the responders themselves, that they have a really important role to play. But do we know how effective this program has actually been at getting people help?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:55] \u003c/em>And I imagine really the goal being to get people access to the help that they need. And that being really the measurement of success for many of these peer responders. I mean, it’s been about five to six years since this program has been around. It sounds like anecdotally, there is this sense, at least among the responders themselves, that they have a really important role to play. But do we know how effective this program has actually been at getting people help?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:25] \u003c/em>There was a study that NYU did in 2024, so it’s been about two years, taking a look at San Francisco’s street crisis response team and these sort of alternatives that came up after 2020. And it really hails San Francisco as a model in this. And this study from NYU, you know, did say that their investments are showing positive results. It said that they the street crisis response team responds to roughly 29 calls a day in an average of 16 minutes each, and that in the vast majority of those calls, the police are not called upon for backup, which would save police resources and indicate that some of this care can be provided without police presence. So that’s pretty high marks for a program that was relatively new and in some regards experimental. Now, fast forward, the city has been really chipping away at this program.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:25] \u003c/em>There was a study that NYU did in 2024, so it’s been about two years, taking a look at San Francisco’s street crisis response team and these sort of alternatives that came up after 2020. And it really hails San Francisco as a model in this. And this study from NYU, you know, did say that their investments are showing positive results. It said that they the street crisis response team responds to roughly 29 calls a day in an average of 16 minutes each, and that in the vast majority of those calls, the police are not called upon for backup, which would save police resources and indicate that some of this care can be provided without police presence. So that’s pretty high marks for a program that was relatively new and in some regards experimental. Now, fast forward, the city has been really chipping away at this program.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:34] \u003c/em>Coming up, why San Francisco is taking peer support counselors off its streets and what it means going forward. By the way, if you want to support the work that we do here at KQED, consider becoming a KQED member, which you could do at donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:41] \u003c/em>I mean, we are talking now because these peers are being removed from the street crisis response team in San Francisco. Why?\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:52] \u003c/em>“Why?” Is a very difficult question. I’ll back up actually to just say how this first got on my radar, actually. Amelia Harmon, who we chatted about earlier, she received information at a fire department commission meeting that the fire department was moving to pull peers off of these 911 response teams and that August 14th would be their last day. You know, she manages these people. She had not heard about this. No one had communicated this to her directly. This was a complete surprise to her. That’s what she says. It was a completely surprise. They hadn’t heard that the program was, you know, not performing or meeting expectations. She has, for the last several weeks, gone and spoken at multiple public meetings, the Health Commission, the Police Commission, Board of Supervisors. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Harmon: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:47] \u003c/em>Hi, good evening supervisors. My name is Amelia, District 9, speaking in my individual capacity. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:53] \u003c/em>Trying to tell people in positions of power, like, this is happening, and ask them, did you know? Like, is there a reason why? Like is anyone concerned about this? \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Harmon: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:05] \u003c/em>From frontline workers to directors. No one that I spoke to had heard it anywhere else. They count on the non-uniformed peer support backed by our traditional first responders when they call 911 for their people, our people. One person on foot door to door. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:24] \u003c/em>Ultimately, this was a decision from the fire department. And when I reached out to the fire department to ask about it, they said that this was very carefully considered decision. They are not getting rid of the street crisis response team, that the street crises response team will still exist. But they are moving peers off of these rigs. And when I tried to push a little bit more on why, the reasoning that I was given was that it has been difficult scheduling with the peers themselves. They are not stationed at the firehouse or with the paramedics. There has to be sort of. An arrangement for a pickup along some of these routes. But yeah, it ultimately has come down to the fire department just deciding that this was not working for their vision for the program.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:15:20] \u003c/em>Yeah, it’s interesting that the reasoning is not something like this program isn’t working. It’s just sort of like an administrative issue. So then what does that then mean for, I mean, who is doing the work now of this sort of non-emergency emergency response in San Francisco?\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:15:40] \u003c/em>Yeah, I mean, the city and the fire department is simultaneously working to expand and develop trained paramedics who have this additional layer of training in many of the things that the peers and behavioral health specialists brought to these rigs. Things like trauma informed responses, you know, extra training in how to direct people to certain social services. But you know what is different about the community paramedic versus the Dear Responders, is, you know, it’s subtle, but it’s important. This is what Amelia had to say about it. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Harmon: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:17] \u003c/em>They come in uniforms and they come in steel-toed boots, and that matters. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:20] \u003c/em>They may not necessarily have the lived experience that a peer brought also, which was kind of at the core of what these peer responders were offering to people who were in crisis. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:34] \u003c/em>And again, that’s just not an experience that you can sit in a classroom and do a two hour training. Right. And I mean, I guess I wonder what someone like Chantal or Amelia worry that the city will really miss when it moves away from prioritizing this firsthand experience to help deal with some of the city’s most pressing issues. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:58] \u003c/em>Yeah, I mean both of them are pretty gutted. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:17:02] \u003c/em>Like I’ve been blindsided. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:17:03] \u003c/em>Chantel talked to me about this. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:17:05] \u003c/em>It’s just an incredible disservice to the community. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:17:08] \u003c/em>The rollout of this has been confusing, and a lot of people seem to not know what’s going on. But Chantal just said there’s been so many times in which she’s seen people on the street who specifically reached out to her in these moments.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:17:27] \u003c/em>It sounds like they’re worried that this is just gonna mean that fewer people are gonna get help when they’re in crisis in San Francisco. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:17:34] \u003c/em>Yeah, I think that’s that’s kind of one of the biggest fears that both Chantel and Amelia have is that if peers are no longer in these on these 911 calls that there will be people who fall through the cracks. You know, when I spoke to Chantell, I asked her, what is your plan after August 14th? You know? What are you going to do after you’re no longer going to be on these 911 calls? And You know, they still don’t know what’s going to be sort of their new offering or position or even if there’s going to be layoffs. But one thing that’s been suggested, I guess, maybe unofficially, is that these peer responders would be shifted to respond to 3-1-1 calls, these non-emergency sort of like handling like, you know, we need unhoused people to move. It’s very different from a 9-1 call. And Chantel just said that feels like. Very different from the expertise she’s been developing over the last few years in kind of these more emergency kind of healthcare sort of driven settings. And so if that is what she’s offered, she’s going to look for something else. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:18:46] \u003c/em>I mean, Sydney, it does seem like so much of the context that we’re living in has changed since 2020 and these conversations around these alternatives to policing, defunding the police. It feels like the conversations really swung in the opposite direction in San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:19:04] \u003c/em>Yeah, it probably has swung in the opposite direction in a lot of places in the country. Yeah. But when you think about the conversations that were being had in 2020 and 2021 about, you know, having these alternatives to policing or, you know, even having hearings in City Hall about what defunding the police would look like, you know, Even though that didn’t happen, it was, you know, still something that city officials were talking about and considering. We are so far from that now. You know, the police budget has only increased. There has been a huge push towards public safety, you know, just as a rallying cry in San Francisco. Within the conversation of public safety. You know homelessness and drug use and mental health often gets wrapped into that. And, you know sometimes unfairly, sometimes not. But I think what we’ve seen is also more arrests for people who are refusing shelter or who are using drugs outside. Obviously, these peer responders were not only handling street-level issues, but I think that moving them off of these 911 calls does signal a return to the more traditional policing approach that we saw. Before these conversations were had.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:19:04] \u003c/em>Yeah, it probably has swung in the opposite direction in a lot of places in the country. Yeah. But when you think about the conversations that were being had in 2020 and 2021 about, you know, having these alternatives to policing or, you know, even having hearings in City Hall about what defunding the police would look like, you know, Even though that didn’t happen, it was, you know, still something that city officials were talking about and considering. We are so far from that now. You know, the police budget has only increased. There has been a huge push towards public safety, you know, just as a rallying cry in San Francisco. Within the conversation of public safety. You know homelessness and drug use and mental health often gets wrapped into that. And, you know sometimes unfairly, sometimes not. But I think what we’ve seen is also more arrests for people who are refusing shelter or who are using drugs outside. Obviously, these peer responders were not only handling street-level issues, but I think that moving them off of these 911 calls does signal a return to the more traditional policing approach that we saw. Before these conversations were had.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:20:41] \u003c/em>Well Sydney, thank you so much for sharing your reporting with me. I appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>This episode contains mentions of suicide. If you or someone you know is in crisis, call or text 988.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Starting August 14, San Francisco will remove peer specialists from its 911 response. These peer responders, equipped with both training and personal experience with issues like homelessness and addiction, say the decision is a regressive step in the city’s approach to mental and behavioral health emergencies.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-wp-embed is-provider-megaphone wp-block-embed-megaphone\">\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\nhttps://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC6632110452&light=true\n\u003c/div>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12092836/these-peers-provided-alternative-911-responders-san-francisco-is-removing-them\">These Peers Provided Alternative 911 Responders. San Francisco Is Removing Them\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\n\n\n\u003ch3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Episode transcript\u003c/h3>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This transcript is computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:00:57] \u003c/em>Hey, just a quick note before we get started. This episode includes mentions of suicide and addiction. Please take care while listening. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. It was early one morning outside of a cafe in San Francisco when Chantel Hernandez-Wood, who was homeless and in the throes of her addiction, was told she had to move. She wasn’t sure what her next move would be or where she’d go next, when about a block up, she saw a red van and made a decision that would change her life forever. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:47] \u003c/em>So I walked up there and I knocked on the window and I said, ‘I need help.’ \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:01:56] \u003c/em>It was San Francisco’s street crisis response team who respond to 911 calls alongside peer counselors, people who’ve had personal experience with homelessness, addiction, or mental illness.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:17] \u003c/em>And they took me to a sobering center. And from there I was placed in a detox and there I, I was in a 90 day program. And while I was sitting there in the 90 day program, I thought, you know, I’d really love to do what they were doing. They went above and beyond to help me get off the streets. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:40] \u003c/em>Today, Chantel is a peer counselor herself, working alongside emergency responders to help people suffering on the streets of San Francisco. It’s a program that’s been going on since 2020.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:02:57] \u003c/em>When someone says, I know how you’re feeling, I know what you’re going through, everybody can say that, but I really know what that feels like to be that individual. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:08] \u003c/em>But this program is about to change. Starting August 14, peer counselors will no longer accompany emergency responders on 911 calls. And advocates worry that without the firsthand expertise of peer counselors, more people will fall through the cracks. Today, what the end of peer support could mean for San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:40] \u003c/em>You’ll probably remember, in 2020, following the killing of George Floyd and several other police brutality incidents, there were protests all over the country.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:52] \u003c/em>Sydney Johnson is a reporter for KQED.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:03:56] \u003c/em>Calls for defunding the police. And, you know, those protests were happening here in the Bay Area. Even though San Francisco never defunded the police, there was a lot of interest in creating these sort of alternatives to having law enforcement and police respond to certain 911 emergencies. And one of those was the street crisis response team. These folks would drive around in red vans and they would respond to 911 calls for mental health emergencies. This could be happening on the street, someone having a psychiatric breakdown or potentially a domestic dispute up in a penthouse. It really ran the gamut. The teams were made up of EMTs, behavioral health clinicians, and peer responders. Peer responders were one of the more unique elements of this alternative response idea because they are not sworn officers, they did not arrive in uniform. They have lived experience, you know, with incarceration or potentially having gone through a mental health crisis themselves, substance use disorder. Having these types of experience that they’ve lived through. Was the expertise that the peers were bringing to these emergency responses also. And that group, the street crisis response team has been operating in San Francisco for about the last five years.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:05:40] \u003c/em>Yeah, I remember the context of this time, I mean, just going back to 2020, like so many conversations and examples of, I mean really one too many people in the midst of a mental health crisis ending up in either jails or the emergency rooms and not necessarily getting the help that they need. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:01] \u003c/em>Yeah, I mean, I think this was something that San Francisco had been talking about. How do we take some responsibilities off of the plate of police officers? And so there was also this thinking not of just how do we offer people who are going through crises potentially someone that they might relate to a little bit more in these scenarios, but also how do we make this whole system more efficient by pulling some of these responsibilities off of law enforcement’s plate. Maybe if there’s someone who’s trained in de-escalation, maybe we don’t have to send police in for backup. And actually, that was one of the outcomes of this program. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Harmon: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:40] \u003c/em>We’re a team for people that are crashing out and the crash out could look any type of way. If you have less money, you’re going to crash out more. That’s just the way it goes. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:06:49] \u003c/em>Amelia Harmon manages many of the peer responders for this program, which is part of the fire department. The street crisis response team falls under the fire department umbrella. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Harmon: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:01] \u003c/em>I’ve responded to panic attacks and first episode psychoses in penthouses. I have responded to, you know, the craziest wildest condos in Knob Hill, where people all of a sudden, like, fell off their medication and now their husband is calling on them because they’ve never seen them act like this before and they’re pulling out their hair. I’ve respond to calls in the marina where I literally just had to play with a woman’s baby while she was having a panic attack because her husband walked out on her.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:26] \u003c/em>In a lot of circumstances, first responders have a lot calls that they have to respond to. And they might be like: OK, there’s not a life and death situation happening here. We got to get to the next spot. And so something that Amelia has talked about that these peers can offer is just a little bit more of that human touch of making sure that people have what they need, even if the crisis has started to deescalate. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Harmon: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:07:52] \u003c/em>But on many, many calls, it really is the peer counselor that the people will disclose to, because in my capacity as a peer counselor, I can tell someone that I was suicidal. I can them how complicated it is to be recovering from depression, but still being suicidal, and managing the symptoms of how often I think about killing myself per day. And if I showed improvement of what that looks like, and I could show that to someone that’s currently struggling, that would help them accept the services. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:18] \u003c/em>How is training for these peer responders different from a typical emergency first responders? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:26] \u003c/em>I mean, you can take classes at San Francisco City College to be a peer responder, but you’re not necessarily getting the training of how to actually stop bleeding in a bullet wound. That is its own sort of set of training, but they are trained in just working with vulnerable populations and basically kind of learn how to translate what they’ve experienced into a bigger context of what did I need in those situations.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:08:59] \u003c/em>You know, when someone says, I know how you’re feeling, I know what you’re going through, you know, everybody can say that, but I really know what that feels like to be that individual. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:12] \u003c/em>I spoke with one of the peer responders. Her name is Chantelle Hernandez-Wood, and she is formerly unhoused and struggled with alcoholism in the past. After going through her own recovery journey, she became one of these peer responders \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:29] \u003c/em>It’s just surreal because I’m working on the same team that helps me when I needed help the most.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:41] \u003c/em>And so Chantel said there were just experience after experience where she would kind of be that first line of, how do we help you? And kind of breaking it down like, hey, I’ve been here before, too. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:09:55] \u003c/em>And I imagine really the goal being to get people access to the help that they need. And that being really the measurement of success for many of these peer responders. I mean, it’s been about five to six years since this program has been around. It sounds like anecdotally, there is this sense, at least among the responders themselves, that they have a really important role to play. But do we know how effective this program has actually been at getting people help?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:10:25] \u003c/em>There was a study that NYU did in 2024, so it’s been about two years, taking a look at San Francisco’s street crisis response team and these sort of alternatives that came up after 2020. And it really hails San Francisco as a model in this. And this study from NYU, you know, did say that their investments are showing positive results. It said that they the street crisis response team responds to roughly 29 calls a day in an average of 16 minutes each, and that in the vast majority of those calls, the police are not called upon for backup, which would save police resources and indicate that some of this care can be provided without police presence. So that’s pretty high marks for a program that was relatively new and in some regards experimental. Now, fast forward, the city has been really chipping away at this program.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:11:34] \u003c/em>Coming up, why San Francisco is taking peer support counselors off its streets and what it means going forward. By the way, if you want to support the work that we do here at KQED, consider becoming a KQED member, which you could do at donate.kqed.org/podcasts. We’ll be right back.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:41] \u003c/em>I mean, we are talking now because these peers are being removed from the street crisis response team in San Francisco. Why?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:12:52] \u003c/em>“Why?” Is a very difficult question. I’ll back up actually to just say how this first got on my radar, actually. Amelia Harmon, who we chatted about earlier, she received information at a fire department commission meeting that the fire department was moving to pull peers off of these 911 response teams and that August 14th would be their last day. You know, she manages these people. She had not heard about this. No one had communicated this to her directly. This was a complete surprise to her. That’s what she says. It was a completely surprise. They hadn’t heard that the program was, you know, not performing or meeting expectations. She has, for the last several weeks, gone and spoken at multiple public meetings, the Health Commission, the Police Commission, Board of Supervisors. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Harmon: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:47] \u003c/em>Hi, good evening supervisors. My name is Amelia, District 9, speaking in my individual capacity. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:13:53] \u003c/em>Trying to tell people in positions of power, like, this is happening, and ask them, did you know? Like, is there a reason why? Like is anyone concerned about this? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Harmon: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:05] \u003c/em>From frontline workers to directors. No one that I spoke to had heard it anywhere else. They count on the non-uniformed peer support backed by our traditional first responders when they call 911 for their people, our people. One person on foot door to door. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:14:24] \u003c/em>Ultimately, this was a decision from the fire department. And when I reached out to the fire department to ask about it, they said that this was very carefully considered decision. They are not getting rid of the street crisis response team, that the street crises response team will still exist. But they are moving peers off of these rigs. And when I tried to push a little bit more on why, the reasoning that I was given was that it has been difficult scheduling with the peers themselves. They are not stationed at the firehouse or with the paramedics. There has to be sort of. An arrangement for a pickup along some of these routes. But yeah, it ultimately has come down to the fire department just deciding that this was not working for their vision for the program.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:15:20] \u003c/em>Yeah, it’s interesting that the reasoning is not something like this program isn’t working. It’s just sort of like an administrative issue. So then what does that then mean for, I mean, who is doing the work now of this sort of non-emergency emergency response in San Francisco?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:15:40] \u003c/em>Yeah, I mean, the city and the fire department is simultaneously working to expand and develop trained paramedics who have this additional layer of training in many of the things that the peers and behavioral health specialists brought to these rigs. Things like trauma informed responses, you know, extra training in how to direct people to certain social services. But you know what is different about the community paramedic versus the Dear Responders, is, you know, it’s subtle, but it’s important. This is what Amelia had to say about it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Harmon: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:17] \u003c/em>They come in uniforms and they come in steel-toed boots, and that matters. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:20] \u003c/em>They may not necessarily have the lived experience that a peer brought also, which was kind of at the core of what these peer responders were offering to people who were in crisis. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:34] \u003c/em>And again, that’s just not an experience that you can sit in a classroom and do a two hour training. Right. And I mean, I guess I wonder what someone like Chantal or Amelia worry that the city will really miss when it moves away from prioritizing this firsthand experience to help deal with some of the city’s most pressing issues. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:16:58] \u003c/em>Yeah, I mean both of them are pretty gutted. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:17:02] \u003c/em>Like I’ve been blindsided. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:17:03] \u003c/em>Chantel talked to me about this. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chantel Hernandez-Wood: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:17:05] \u003c/em>It’s just an incredible disservice to the community. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:17:08] \u003c/em>The rollout of this has been confusing, and a lot of people seem to not know what’s going on. But Chantal just said there’s been so many times in which she’s seen people on the street who specifically reached out to her in these moments.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:17:27] \u003c/em>It sounds like they’re worried that this is just gonna mean that fewer people are gonna get help when they’re in crisis in San Francisco. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:17:34] \u003c/em>Yeah, I think that’s that’s kind of one of the biggest fears that both Chantel and Amelia have is that if peers are no longer in these on these 911 calls that there will be people who fall through the cracks. You know, when I spoke to Chantell, I asked her, what is your plan after August 14th? You know? What are you going to do after you’re no longer going to be on these 911 calls? And You know, they still don’t know what’s going to be sort of their new offering or position or even if there’s going to be layoffs. But one thing that’s been suggested, I guess, maybe unofficially, is that these peer responders would be shifted to respond to 3-1-1 calls, these non-emergency sort of like handling like, you know, we need unhoused people to move. It’s very different from a 9-1 call. And Chantel just said that feels like. Very different from the expertise she’s been developing over the last few years in kind of these more emergency kind of healthcare sort of driven settings. And so if that is what she’s offered, she’s going to look for something else. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:18:46] \u003c/em>I mean, Sydney, it does seem like so much of the context that we’re living in has changed since 2020 and these conversations around these alternatives to policing, defunding the police. It feels like the conversations really swung in the opposite direction in San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:19:04] \u003c/em>Yeah, it probably has swung in the opposite direction in a lot of places in the country. Yeah. But when you think about the conversations that were being had in 2020 and 2021 about, you know, having these alternatives to policing or, you know, even having hearings in City Hall about what defunding the police would look like, you know, Even though that didn’t happen, it was, you know, still something that city officials were talking about and considering. We are so far from that now. You know, the police budget has only increased. There has been a huge push towards public safety, you know, just as a rallying cry in San Francisco. Within the conversation of public safety. You know homelessness and drug use and mental health often gets wrapped into that. And, you know sometimes unfairly, sometimes not. But I think what we’ve seen is also more arrests for people who are refusing shelter or who are using drugs outside. Obviously, these peer responders were not only handling street-level issues, but I think that moving them off of these 911 calls does signal a return to the more traditional policing approach that we saw. Before these conversations were had.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>\u003cem>[00:20:41] \u003c/em>Well Sydney, thank you so much for sharing your reporting with me. I appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\u003cp>One evening in February, a small group of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/oakland\">Oakland\u003c/a> high school students gathered in a circle in a classroom at MetWest High School to talk about the issues that impact their mental health. It was quiet at first, but soon, teens began to share their experiences: The trauma of losing a loved one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Overwhelming pressure to succeed in school and comparison to others. Social media. Environmental conditions, such as the reality of finding an abandoned gun on the sidewalk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The impacts of immigration on a community. Families living in “survival mode” and having no time to connect or process feelings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There was a resounding consensus. Students felt that while mental health resources are available and Bay Area residents talk about being open to discussing mental health, in reality, it’s not a safe place. People — other youth in particular — can still be very judgmental if you are open about your mental health struggles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These students were participating in a pilot workshop series focused on visual storytelling and youth mental health, organized by nonprofit media organization \u003ca href=\"https://www.catchlight.io/mental-health\">CatchLight’s Mental Health Visual Desk\u003c/a> and Oakland-based youth media organization \u003ca href=\"https://youthbeat.org/\">Youthbeat\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was facilitated by visual journalists and editors from CatchLight and KQED, including myself, Florence Middleton, Ximena Natera, Martin do Nascimento and Jenny Stratton.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In \u003ca href=\"https://www.aecf.org/blog/generation-z-and-mental-health\">2021\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/zLatest_News/Four_Years_On.aspx\">2025\u003c/a>, organizations like the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry declared a national emergency for children’s mental health in America, amid rising mental health-related hospital visits and suicide attempts. Gen Zers, those born between 1997 and 2012, are also \u003ca href=\"https://www.aecf.org/blog/generation-z-and-mental-health\">80% more likely\u003c/a> to report dealing with anxiety or depression compared to older generations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The workshop aimed to give teens space to process some of these realities and contribute their own experiences to this narrative.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This cohort of high schoolers focused on mental health and caregiving. Each student chose a caregiver — a parent, teacher, friend, sibling, partner — whose care and often unseen labor quietly sustains them and shapes their well-being.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over a three-month period, students developed photo essays documenting the impacts of that caregiving in their lives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They pushed themselves to be vulnerable. And they learned to photograph abstract concepts around mental well-being. Individually, each photo essay tells a deeply personal story. Collectively, they answer the question: In a time of crisis for young people’s mental health, whose hands hold them up?\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Evelyn Sanchez De Leon\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>My name is Evelyn Sanchez De Leon. I’m a student at Oakland High School, and I enjoy music, art and nature. I’m the most expressive around my loved ones.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>My caregiver is my best friend, Sharon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’ve been well aware of my mental health as early as the age of 7. I spent many years figuring out who I am, what I am, and what I will be, alongside figuring out how to unwire the knots in my head that have been caused by my day-to-day life, making me feel lost and confused up until sixth grade, when I met Sharon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She’s been my ride or die since the day we met, and truly has shown me that there is genuine good within people for the past six years. She’s helped me throughout my roughest periods in life, in which, at some points, I genuinely thought I wouldn’t seek a way out. She was there when I felt like I had nobody. She was there with me no matter what. She’s been there at my lowest, but has always helped me reach the highest levels in life whenever I thought I wasn’t capable and made me believe in myself in many ways.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I have nothing but pure love and admiration for her. I’m forever going to be grateful for everything she has done for me, helped me overcome and still is doing for my well-being. I tried to capture that in these pictures.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084277\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1500px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084277\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1500\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED.jpg 1500w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED-1152x1536.jpg 1152w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1500px) 100vw, 1500px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The view from my balcony. I love to step outside whenever I just want alone time.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084278\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084278\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1337\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED-1536x1027.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A CD, a CD player and my keychain that was given to me by Sharon. I have a couple of CDs and use the player almost daily.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084281\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084281\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1337\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED-1536x1027.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Yellow flowers. The color yellow reminds me of Sharon, since yellow represents warmth and happiness.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084280\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084280\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1337\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED-1536x1027.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sharon. She’s pretty photogenic in my eyes. The picture really captures her beauty.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084282\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1500px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084282\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1500\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED.jpg 1500w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED-1152x1536.jpg 1152w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1500px) 100vw, 1500px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A Machine Girl concert that Sharon and I attended.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084283\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084283\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1500\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED-1536x1152.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A local bookstore that Sharon and I go to occasionally is one of our favorite spots.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084284\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084284\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1500\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED-1536x1152.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">I was going through a rough patch around the time this picture was taken and decided to take a walk around Lake Merritt. I enjoy nature whenever I feel down.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084285\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084285\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1337\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED-1536x1027.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Two pelicans floating, which reminded me of the two of us. Sharon really loves pelicans.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084286\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1500px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084286\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1500\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED.jpg 1500w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-1152x1536.jpg 1152w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1500px) 100vw, 1500px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">I went on a walk in the middle of the night. It’s rare, but I seriously enjoy late-night walks.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Adonis Paul Anthony\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Hey, my name is \u003cstrong>Adonis Paul Anthony\u003c/strong>. I’m a senior at Coliseum College Prep Academy (CCPA) in Oakland. I like playing video games, listening to music, exploring places, taking photos/videos and spending time with family and friends.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For this project, I chose my father as my caregiver. He’s had a big impact on my life — helping me figure out what I want to do and always being there when I need someone to talk to or when I’m feeling any type of way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think many families sometimes overlook mental health for Oakland youth, although many are dealing with stress and pressure. Some families do not prioritize mental health, which makes youth feel pressure to succeed in life, along with not always having space to openly talk about mental health. In addition, the environment around me affects me, and violence and struggle affect my community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>My father is mostly working and not always home; however, when my father is home, I have a lot of my own personal time to myself. When worrying about school, other things on my mind, and my future, mainly, I start to feel extremely overwhelmed. Due to this, I try not to think too much about it and only try to worry about what’s happening in the moment. I also try doing things that I enjoy, like hanging out with friends or my girlfriend, playing video games or going out and taking photos. But when I am not able to do any of those things, I am able to talk to my father.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’ve faced challenges with my mental health many times, and having him as a supportive caregiver has played a huge role in helping me stay grounded and move forward. Whenever I am feeling overwhelmed, my father is usually able to tell and asks me how I am doing and checks on me to make sure I am okay. He is also able to give me any advice that I need and supports me in whatever I want to do for my future. In fact, when I am feeling the rock bottom of anything, I am able to talk to him. Not only is he someone I can talk to about my mental health, he also takes care of me by keeping food in my mouth and a roof over my head. He will do anything in the world to support me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ultimately, for this photo essay, I wanted to show how the support and trust that my caregiver gives me has allowed me to have a lot of freedom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084287\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1125px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084287\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1125\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED.jpg 1125w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED-160x284.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED-864x1536.jpg 864w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1125px) 100vw, 1125px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">In my bedroom, while I was looking outside my window at the sunset with two palm trees. This photo reminds me of when I am all alone in my room and sometimes feeling overwhelmed about my future and worrying about what’s going to happen next.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084288\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084288\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1330\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED-1536x1021.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Photo was taken in San Francisco when me and my friends decided to go out and explore a new place. Although my dad isn’t physically caregiving, he is giving me the freedom to explore with my friends whenever and wherever.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084289\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1500px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084289\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1500\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED.jpg 1500w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED-1152x1536.jpg 1152w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1500px) 100vw, 1500px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A photo of me in San Francisco, taken by my girlfriend when we went out to explore and watch the sunset. This picture is me looking out at the world and reflecting on how much freedom I have.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084290\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1500px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084290\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1500\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED.jpg 1500w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED-1152x1536.jpg 1152w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1500px) 100vw, 1500px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This photo was taken in Stockton at a flower garden when I was visiting my mom. With all the freedom I have, I am able to blossom and experience new things.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084291\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084291\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">One photo is of my eye, which shows that in my life, I have my own perspective. The other picture is my gaming PC that my father got me. It’s very expensive and helps me entertain myself when I’m enjoying my personal time and not exploring outside.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084292\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084292\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1330\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED-1536x1021.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Food that I am able to order whenever I want. Along with that, my father is able to provide me with money to spend on what I want.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084293\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084293\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The ceiling of my room, with a galaxy astronaut light and LED lights on the wall on each side. My lights remind me of the galaxy and how big it is, with many things to explore in the world, but in my space.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084294\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084294\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">San Francisco at night after a long day exploring with my friends. This makes me think about how I get overwhelmed when thinking about the future, but am also able to go out and see the world for myself, which is represented in the second picture of my eye, but this time with a shadow.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084295\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084295\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1125\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-1200x675.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">In San Francisco, when my friends and I went to explore on a cloudy, rainy day. The stormy day reminded me of how the future will come soon, but I also still have the freedom that my father is able to give me.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Nhien Tang\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>My name is \u003cstrong>Nhien Tang\u003c/strong>. I’m a junior at Oakland High School. I’m a first-generation student who likes music, art, reading and spending time with friends and family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I chose my boyfriend as my caregiver. During the time we’ve been together, I’ve felt like I’ve improved myself as a person. He has always supported me and makes sure that I stay healthy because I don’t really eat a lot of nutritious food otherwise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I started to notice my mental health a lot more during middle school. During that time, I was growing up and becoming more aware of things around me. My family was always busy, so I didn’t have any emotional support. So I depended on myself and the internet during my whole childhood. I’ve dealt with my struggles by myself, often isolating myself from everyone whenever I’m stressed. At times, I couldn’t properly take care of myself, including eating, showering or just getting out of bed. I managed to heal a bit by myself, yet I still have those periods of struggle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That was until my boyfriend came into my life. He showed me how to rely on someone and how to open up. He taught me that being vulnerable is not weak, but a strong trait. He supported me in many ways — cooking me food, helping me with schoolwork, washing my hair and so much more. Because of his actions, I’ve always felt comfortable in his presence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In this photo essay, I want to show how my love has supported me on my healing journey.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084296\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084296\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1337\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED-1536x1027.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The desk that has been through so much: studying, homework, gaming and drawing. Barely getting clean because of the workload I have during school.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084297\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084297\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The girl behind that desk. She is me. I was cooking with my boyfriend.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084298\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084298\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1337\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED-1536x1027.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">I’ve always struggled with my identity. Religion, sexuality and race. It caused me a lot of breakdowns and stress. I couldn’t communicate with my family about these topics because of the language barrier we have.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084299\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084299\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1337\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED-1536x1027.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The alcohol bottles in the living room cabinet. My family likes partying a lot. I hate loud noises. Whenever they party, I lock myself in my room to get away from the loud music.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084300\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084300\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">My caregiver, my boyfriend, is cooking with me. He’s way better at cooking than I am. I always feel loved whenever he cooks for me, or when we cook together.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084301\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084301\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The letter my boyfriend gave me, using my nickname: Nhi. He has always been good with his words, making me feel calm and comfortable. Talking to him makes me feel like a flower blooming outside.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084302\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084302\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1500\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED-1536x1152.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">My love and I. We took pictures at a photobooth, not the first ever one, and definitely not the last.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084303\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084303\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The results of cooking together. I never once doubted how it would taste because I know it’ll always taste good to me whenever we cook together.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084304\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1500px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084304\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1500\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED.jpg 1500w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED-1152x1536.jpg 1152w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1500px) 100vw, 1500px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">We’re always going out together. I’ve noticed I become happier when I’m with my boyfriend. I’m more confident in myself just by being by his side.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084305\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084305\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1337\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-1536x1027.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The cherry blossom flower represents me right now, showing how I have grown as a person because of my caregiver.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Zay Austin\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>My name is \u003cstrong>Zay Austin\u003c/strong>, and I am a junior at Oakland High School. All these pictures represent me and my mental health because most of my life was kind of hard. But when I got to this school and met all these people and made new friends, I had a sense of purpose. I ended up finding a new self, made all these friends freshman year and I met my caregivers in my sophomore year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The caregivers I chose are my study skills teacher, named Ortiz — because she was one of the people who helped me get a passing grade on my assignments — and my friends and my girlfriend. They all kept me on track and made me happy in life, especially when I met my girlfriend. We met my freshman year (her sophomore year), but I am older than her by two days.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We started dating this year (my junior year), and we are happy to be together. She makes sure I always go to class and stops being distracted by trying to make sure I have my work done. She also listens to my problems, and I do the same for her when she needs to talk about her day or when she is down. Looking at it all now, meeting these people that I took pictures of changed me a lot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084306\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084306\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This is the first place where I played hide and seek with my volleyball team, my freshman year. It was a good experience, and they’ve taught me a lot.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084307\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084307\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This is where I found a way to become a better leader within a classroom. It taught me how to give ideas and help where I can.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084308\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084308\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This is one of my closest friends. His name is Taariq. We played basketball together our freshman year, and we ended up staying close for a very long time.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084309\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084309\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This is a picture of the sky — one of my favorite pictures. I always loved taking a picture of the sky when I was younger. It made me feel good when I got to see the sky in a different light.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084310\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084310\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This is a picture of one of my caregivers, a teacher of mine named Ortiz. She’s been good to my classmates and me, helping where she can, and I’m grateful for that.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084311\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084311\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This is another picture of one of my friends. His name is Cleo. I met him in my freshman year. We met in PE, and we started playing one-on-one in basketball.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084312\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1500px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084312\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1500\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED.jpg 1500w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED-1152x1536.jpg 1152w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1500px) 100vw, 1500px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This is a picture of me and my caregiver, my girlfriend. I’ve known her since my freshman year, and we got together my junior year, her senior year. She makes me the happiest person ever, even when bad things are going on.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084313\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084313\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This is a picture of the ceiling. I always noticed nature, and it reminds me of how my journey is growing like the leaves inside this classroom.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084315\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084315\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This is a picture of a star in one of my classrooms. I took a picture of it because I feel like a star when I step onto the volleyball court.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084314\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084314\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This is a picture of a new friend I made at the Youth Beat Mental Health Workshop. Her name is Evelyn, but I call her Ev. These photos are from our first hangout, where we took pictures. I climbed a tree to get a better picture.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084316\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084316\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-11-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-11-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-11-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-11-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This is a different hallway where I first met most of the people in my pictures.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Diego Sanchez Morfin\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>My name is Diego Sanchez Morfin. I am a senior at Madison Park Academy in Oakland. I’m my parents’ second-youngest son, and I’m someone who enjoys spending time with family and friends and watching movies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For this project, I chose my mother as my caregiver because she has always been there for me. She is the reason I am the way I am, and her influence has taught me so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Issues that impact my mental health revolve around the current state of our country. Countless immigrants who are trying to make ends meet are being treated horribly. Seeing this happening all around the world while coming from an immigrant family can be overwhelming. But my mother always helps me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>My mental health has had its roses and thorns, but whenever I am experiencing a thorn, my mother’s kindness turns it into a rose.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Through my photo essay, I want to show my mother’s beauty and the impact she has had on my life. Her kindness has taught me so much and has shaped me into who I am now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084317\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1500px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084317\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1500\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED.jpg 1500w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED-1152x1536.jpg 1152w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1500px) 100vw, 1500px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">From a young age, my mother has never failed to uphold her faith — the faith she represents with her beauty.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084318\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084318\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Just like a rose, my mother’s name is Rosa. Her beauty is often overlooked, but this is a chance to showcase it.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084319\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1500px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084319\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1500\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED.jpg 1500w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED-1152x1536.jpg 1152w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1500px) 100vw, 1500px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Whether it is going to the school, dentist, hospital or grocery store, she always makes sure we get there safely.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084320\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1500px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084320\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1500\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED.jpg 1500w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED-1152x1536.jpg 1152w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1500px) 100vw, 1500px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The door I have gone in and out of for the majority of my life.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084321\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084321\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05_UPDATED-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05_UPDATED-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05_UPDATED-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05_UPDATED-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">No food can ever get close to the flavors my mom creates. Getting home from school means smelling our favorite meals.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084322\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084322\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1324\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED-1536x1017.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">My name is Diego Sanchez. I’m my mother’s son, and I see myself through the images I capture.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084323\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084323\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">My mother’s constant support has shaped my upbringing. I’m now building other support systems and thriving as a rising college student. My girlfriend and I are on the left. My friend, my girlfriend and I are on the right.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084324\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1601px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084324\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1601\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED.jpg 1601w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED-160x200.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED-1230x1536.jpg 1230w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1601px) 100vw, 1601px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Only a paw away are my cats. They’ve stayed by my side for the past five years, bringing an extra layer of laughter.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084325\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084325\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1335\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Like other people’s childhoods, mine emerged in the playground. The same spot I drive by every day is the same spot I once wanted to stay in forever.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084327\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1907px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084327\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1907\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED.jpg 1907w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-160x168.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-1465x1536.jpg 1465w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1907px) 100vw, 1907px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">My mind is always in the light, the light filled with memories and future memories I’m creating.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Korey Gibson\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Hello, my name is \u003cstrong>Korey Gibson\u003c/strong>. I’m a sophomore at Oakland Tech in Oakland. I am a student and a younger brother. Some things I like to do are draw, hang out with friends, go on hikes, take photos and listen to music.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For this project, I chose my mother as my caregiver because she has always taken care of me and supported me. She is very charismatic, authentic and just an overall kind, amazing person. Throughout my struggles with my mental health, she has always supported me and been a shoulder for me to lean on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I am glad that I’ve gotten the support I needed. Having my mother to talk to has helped me so much with my mental health. Through this photo essay, I wanted to show how I feel and how my mom handles her mental health. I tried to capture photos that show even the little things that can give meaning in everyday life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084328\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084328\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This photo was just me capturing my mom while she was working and having a face mask on. She multitasks a lot, so I tried to capture the feeling of being busy but also focused.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084329\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1333px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084329\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1333\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED.jpg 1333w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED-1024x1536.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1333px) 100vw, 1333px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">When I saw the fly on the window, I had my camera, and it was just chilling on the glass. It made me think about how it’s important to admire and appreciate the small things in the world, too, not just the large things.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084330\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084330\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">I took this photo in a rose garden after a storm. The flower was starting to wilt, and even while it was wilting, it still had this beauty to it. I wanted to capture it to show that even when something isn’t in the “best” condition, it’s still worth admiring.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084331\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1333px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084331\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1333\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED.jpg 1333w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED-1024x1536.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1333px) 100vw, 1333px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This is a photo I took of some drawings I did. I was letting my mind wander, and my hands draw.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084332\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084332\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">I captured this photo of my mom when she was trying to decompress from a long day. We all just sat on the couch and watched TV.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084333\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1333px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1333\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED.jpg 1333w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED-1024x1536.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1333px) 100vw, 1333px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">I took this photo because I really just liked the color of the plasma and I put my finger on the top to symbolize how I wanted to touch the plasma itself but I couldn’t.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084334\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084334\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">I took this photo of my cat because she moves around a lot, and sometimes she is a little chaotic. I felt like I captured that feel with the blur and movement.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084335\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1333px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084335\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1333\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED.jpg 1333w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED-1024x1536.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1333px) 100vw, 1333px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">I took this photo of my mom and dad while we were on a walk in Alameda, just all taking a long walk around the water and getting fresh air.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084336\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084336\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">I took this photo in the rose garden. I liked the way the bush looked with the flowers, and the pink really caught my eye with the red roses in the background, too.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084337\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1333px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084337\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1333\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED.jpg 1333w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-1024x1536.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1333px) 100vw, 1333px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This last photo I captured of my mom was at Joaquin Miller Park. It was just my mom basking in the sun, and I was trying to capture her in her element out in nature because she really likes to be in nature.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ci>This project was produced jointly by KQED, YouthBeat and the CatchLight \u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.catchlight.io/mental-health\">\u003ci>mental health visual desk initiative\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>.\u003c/i>\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "A recent workshop facilitated by several Bay Area organizations asked Oakland high schoolers to visualize the impact their caregivers have on their mental health.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>One evening in February, a small group of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/oakland\">Oakland\u003c/a> high school students gathered in a circle in a classroom at MetWest High School to talk about the issues that impact their mental health. It was quiet at first, but soon, teens began to share their experiences: The trauma of losing a loved one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Overwhelming pressure to succeed in school and comparison to others. Social media. Environmental conditions, such as the reality of finding an abandoned gun on the sidewalk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The impacts of immigration on a community. Families living in “survival mode” and having no time to connect or process feelings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There was a resounding consensus. Students felt that while mental health resources are available and Bay Area residents talk about being open to discussing mental health, in reality, it’s not a safe place. People — other youth in particular — can still be very judgmental if you are open about your mental health struggles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These students were participating in a pilot workshop series focused on visual storytelling and youth mental health, organized by nonprofit media organization \u003ca href=\"https://www.catchlight.io/mental-health\">CatchLight’s Mental Health Visual Desk\u003c/a> and Oakland-based youth media organization \u003ca href=\"https://youthbeat.org/\">Youthbeat\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was facilitated by visual journalists and editors from CatchLight and KQED, including myself, Florence Middleton, Ximena Natera, Martin do Nascimento and Jenny Stratton.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In \u003ca href=\"https://www.aecf.org/blog/generation-z-and-mental-health\">2021\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/zLatest_News/Four_Years_On.aspx\">2025\u003c/a>, organizations like the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry declared a national emergency for children’s mental health in America, amid rising mental health-related hospital visits and suicide attempts. Gen Zers, those born between 1997 and 2012, are also \u003ca href=\"https://www.aecf.org/blog/generation-z-and-mental-health\">80% more likely\u003c/a> to report dealing with anxiety or depression compared to older generations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The workshop aimed to give teens space to process some of these realities and contribute their own experiences to this narrative.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This cohort of high schoolers focused on mental health and caregiving. Each student chose a caregiver — a parent, teacher, friend, sibling, partner — whose care and often unseen labor quietly sustains them and shapes their well-being.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over a three-month period, students developed photo essays documenting the impacts of that caregiving in their lives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They pushed themselves to be vulnerable. And they learned to photograph abstract concepts around mental well-being. Individually, each photo essay tells a deeply personal story. Collectively, they answer the question: In a time of crisis for young people’s mental health, whose hands hold them up?\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Evelyn Sanchez De Leon\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>My name is Evelyn Sanchez De Leon. I’m a student at Oakland High School, and I enjoy music, art and nature. I’m the most expressive around my loved ones.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>My caregiver is my best friend, Sharon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’ve been well aware of my mental health as early as the age of 7. I spent many years figuring out who I am, what I am, and what I will be, alongside figuring out how to unwire the knots in my head that have been caused by my day-to-day life, making me feel lost and confused up until sixth grade, when I met Sharon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She’s been my ride or die since the day we met, and truly has shown me that there is genuine good within people for the past six years. She’s helped me throughout my roughest periods in life, in which, at some points, I genuinely thought I wouldn’t seek a way out. She was there when I felt like I had nobody. She was there with me no matter what. She’s been there at my lowest, but has always helped me reach the highest levels in life whenever I thought I wasn’t capable and made me believe in myself in many ways.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I have nothing but pure love and admiration for her. I’m forever going to be grateful for everything she has done for me, helped me overcome and still is doing for my well-being. I tried to capture that in these pictures.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084277\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1500px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084277\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1500\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED.jpg 1500w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED-1152x1536.jpg 1152w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1500px) 100vw, 1500px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The view from my balcony. I love to step outside whenever I just want alone time.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084278\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084278\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1337\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED-1536x1027.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A CD, a CD player and my keychain that was given to me by Sharon. I have a couple of CDs and use the player almost daily.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084281\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084281\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1337\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED-1536x1027.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Yellow flowers. The color yellow reminds me of Sharon, since yellow represents warmth and happiness.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084280\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084280\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1337\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED-1536x1027.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sharon. She’s pretty photogenic in my eyes. The picture really captures her beauty.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084282\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1500px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084282\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1500\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED.jpg 1500w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED-1152x1536.jpg 1152w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1500px) 100vw, 1500px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A Machine Girl concert that Sharon and I attended.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084283\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084283\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1500\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED-1536x1152.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A local bookstore that Sharon and I go to occasionally is one of our favorite spots.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084284\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084284\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1500\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED-1536x1152.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">I was going through a rough patch around the time this picture was taken and decided to take a walk around Lake Merritt. I enjoy nature whenever I feel down.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084285\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084285\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1337\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED-1536x1027.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Two pelicans floating, which reminded me of the two of us. Sharon really loves pelicans.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084286\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1500px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084286\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1500\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED.jpg 1500w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ESDL-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-1152x1536.jpg 1152w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1500px) 100vw, 1500px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">I went on a walk in the middle of the night. It’s rare, but I seriously enjoy late-night walks.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Adonis Paul Anthony\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Hey, my name is \u003cstrong>Adonis Paul Anthony\u003c/strong>. I’m a senior at Coliseum College Prep Academy (CCPA) in Oakland. I like playing video games, listening to music, exploring places, taking photos/videos and spending time with family and friends.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For this project, I chose my father as my caregiver. He’s had a big impact on my life — helping me figure out what I want to do and always being there when I need someone to talk to or when I’m feeling any type of way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think many families sometimes overlook mental health for Oakland youth, although many are dealing with stress and pressure. Some families do not prioritize mental health, which makes youth feel pressure to succeed in life, along with not always having space to openly talk about mental health. In addition, the environment around me affects me, and violence and struggle affect my community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>My father is mostly working and not always home; however, when my father is home, I have a lot of my own personal time to myself. When worrying about school, other things on my mind, and my future, mainly, I start to feel extremely overwhelmed. Due to this, I try not to think too much about it and only try to worry about what’s happening in the moment. I also try doing things that I enjoy, like hanging out with friends or my girlfriend, playing video games or going out and taking photos. But when I am not able to do any of those things, I am able to talk to my father.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’ve faced challenges with my mental health many times, and having him as a supportive caregiver has played a huge role in helping me stay grounded and move forward. Whenever I am feeling overwhelmed, my father is usually able to tell and asks me how I am doing and checks on me to make sure I am okay. He is also able to give me any advice that I need and supports me in whatever I want to do for my future. In fact, when I am feeling the rock bottom of anything, I am able to talk to him. Not only is he someone I can talk to about my mental health, he also takes care of me by keeping food in my mouth and a roof over my head. He will do anything in the world to support me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ultimately, for this photo essay, I wanted to show how the support and trust that my caregiver gives me has allowed me to have a lot of freedom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084287\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1125px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084287\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1125\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED.jpg 1125w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED-160x284.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED-864x1536.jpg 864w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1125px) 100vw, 1125px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">In my bedroom, while I was looking outside my window at the sunset with two palm trees. This photo reminds me of when I am all alone in my room and sometimes feeling overwhelmed about my future and worrying about what’s going to happen next.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084288\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084288\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1330\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED-1536x1021.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Photo was taken in San Francisco when me and my friends decided to go out and explore a new place. Although my dad isn’t physically caregiving, he is giving me the freedom to explore with my friends whenever and wherever.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084289\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1500px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084289\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1500\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED.jpg 1500w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED-1152x1536.jpg 1152w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1500px) 100vw, 1500px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A photo of me in San Francisco, taken by my girlfriend when we went out to explore and watch the sunset. This picture is me looking out at the world and reflecting on how much freedom I have.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084290\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1500px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084290\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1500\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED.jpg 1500w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED-1152x1536.jpg 1152w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1500px) 100vw, 1500px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This photo was taken in Stockton at a flower garden when I was visiting my mom. With all the freedom I have, I am able to blossom and experience new things.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084291\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084291\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">One photo is of my eye, which shows that in my life, I have my own perspective. The other picture is my gaming PC that my father got me. It’s very expensive and helps me entertain myself when I’m enjoying my personal time and not exploring outside.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084292\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084292\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1330\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED-1536x1021.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Food that I am able to order whenever I want. Along with that, my father is able to provide me with money to spend on what I want.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084293\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084293\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The ceiling of my room, with a galaxy astronaut light and LED lights on the wall on each side. My lights remind me of the galaxy and how big it is, with many things to explore in the world, but in my space.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084294\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084294\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">San Francisco at night after a long day exploring with my friends. This makes me think about how I get overwhelmed when thinking about the future, but am also able to go out and see the world for myself, which is represented in the second picture of my eye, but this time with a shadow.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084295\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084295\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1125\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-APA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-1200x675.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">In San Francisco, when my friends and I went to explore on a cloudy, rainy day. The stormy day reminded me of how the future will come soon, but I also still have the freedom that my father is able to give me.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Nhien Tang\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>My name is \u003cstrong>Nhien Tang\u003c/strong>. I’m a junior at Oakland High School. I’m a first-generation student who likes music, art, reading and spending time with friends and family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I chose my boyfriend as my caregiver. During the time we’ve been together, I’ve felt like I’ve improved myself as a person. He has always supported me and makes sure that I stay healthy because I don’t really eat a lot of nutritious food otherwise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I started to notice my mental health a lot more during middle school. During that time, I was growing up and becoming more aware of things around me. My family was always busy, so I didn’t have any emotional support. So I depended on myself and the internet during my whole childhood. I’ve dealt with my struggles by myself, often isolating myself from everyone whenever I’m stressed. At times, I couldn’t properly take care of myself, including eating, showering or just getting out of bed. I managed to heal a bit by myself, yet I still have those periods of struggle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That was until my boyfriend came into my life. He showed me how to rely on someone and how to open up. He taught me that being vulnerable is not weak, but a strong trait. He supported me in many ways — cooking me food, helping me with schoolwork, washing my hair and so much more. Because of his actions, I’ve always felt comfortable in his presence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In this photo essay, I want to show how my love has supported me on my healing journey.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084296\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084296\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1337\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED-1536x1027.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The desk that has been through so much: studying, homework, gaming and drawing. Barely getting clean because of the workload I have during school.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084297\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084297\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The girl behind that desk. She is me. I was cooking with my boyfriend.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084298\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084298\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1337\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED-1536x1027.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">I’ve always struggled with my identity. Religion, sexuality and race. It caused me a lot of breakdowns and stress. I couldn’t communicate with my family about these topics because of the language barrier we have.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084299\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084299\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1337\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED-1536x1027.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The alcohol bottles in the living room cabinet. My family likes partying a lot. I hate loud noises. Whenever they party, I lock myself in my room to get away from the loud music.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084300\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084300\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">My caregiver, my boyfriend, is cooking with me. He’s way better at cooking than I am. I always feel loved whenever he cooks for me, or when we cook together.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084301\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084301\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The letter my boyfriend gave me, using my nickname: Nhi. He has always been good with his words, making me feel calm and comfortable. Talking to him makes me feel like a flower blooming outside.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084302\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084302\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1500\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED-1536x1152.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">My love and I. We took pictures at a photobooth, not the first ever one, and definitely not the last.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084303\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084303\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The results of cooking together. I never once doubted how it would taste because I know it’ll always taste good to me whenever we cook together.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084304\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1500px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084304\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1500\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED.jpg 1500w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED-1152x1536.jpg 1152w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1500px) 100vw, 1500px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">We’re always going out together. I’ve noticed I become happier when I’m with my boyfriend. I’m more confident in myself just by being by his side.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084305\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084305\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1337\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-NT-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-1536x1027.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The cherry blossom flower represents me right now, showing how I have grown as a person because of my caregiver.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Zay Austin\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>My name is \u003cstrong>Zay Austin\u003c/strong>, and I am a junior at Oakland High School. All these pictures represent me and my mental health because most of my life was kind of hard. But when I got to this school and met all these people and made new friends, I had a sense of purpose. I ended up finding a new self, made all these friends freshman year and I met my caregivers in my sophomore year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The caregivers I chose are my study skills teacher, named Ortiz — because she was one of the people who helped me get a passing grade on my assignments — and my friends and my girlfriend. They all kept me on track and made me happy in life, especially when I met my girlfriend. We met my freshman year (her sophomore year), but I am older than her by two days.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We started dating this year (my junior year), and we are happy to be together. She makes sure I always go to class and stops being distracted by trying to make sure I have my work done. She also listens to my problems, and I do the same for her when she needs to talk about her day or when she is down. Looking at it all now, meeting these people that I took pictures of changed me a lot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084306\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084306\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This is the first place where I played hide and seek with my volleyball team, my freshman year. It was a good experience, and they’ve taught me a lot.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084307\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084307\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This is where I found a way to become a better leader within a classroom. It taught me how to give ideas and help where I can.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084308\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084308\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This is one of my closest friends. His name is Taariq. We played basketball together our freshman year, and we ended up staying close for a very long time.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084309\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084309\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This is a picture of the sky — one of my favorite pictures. I always loved taking a picture of the sky when I was younger. It made me feel good when I got to see the sky in a different light.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084310\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084310\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This is a picture of one of my caregivers, a teacher of mine named Ortiz. She’s been good to my classmates and me, helping where she can, and I’m grateful for that.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084311\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084311\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This is another picture of one of my friends. His name is Cleo. I met him in my freshman year. We met in PE, and we started playing one-on-one in basketball.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084312\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1500px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084312\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1500\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED.jpg 1500w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED-1152x1536.jpg 1152w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1500px) 100vw, 1500px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This is a picture of me and my caregiver, my girlfriend. I’ve known her since my freshman year, and we got together my junior year, her senior year. She makes me the happiest person ever, even when bad things are going on.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084313\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084313\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This is a picture of the ceiling. I always noticed nature, and it reminds me of how my journey is growing like the leaves inside this classroom.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084315\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084315\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This is a picture of a star in one of my classrooms. I took a picture of it because I feel like a star when I step onto the volleyball court.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084314\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084314\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This is a picture of a new friend I made at the Youth Beat Mental Health Workshop. Her name is Evelyn, but I call her Ev. These photos are from our first hangout, where we took pictures. I climbed a tree to get a better picture.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084316\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084316\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-11-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-11-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-11-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-ZA-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-11-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This is a different hallway where I first met most of the people in my pictures.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Diego Sanchez Morfin\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>My name is Diego Sanchez Morfin. I am a senior at Madison Park Academy in Oakland. I’m my parents’ second-youngest son, and I’m someone who enjoys spending time with family and friends and watching movies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For this project, I chose my mother as my caregiver because she has always been there for me. She is the reason I am the way I am, and her influence has taught me so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Issues that impact my mental health revolve around the current state of our country. Countless immigrants who are trying to make ends meet are being treated horribly. Seeing this happening all around the world while coming from an immigrant family can be overwhelming. But my mother always helps me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>My mental health has had its roses and thorns, but whenever I am experiencing a thorn, my mother’s kindness turns it into a rose.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Through my photo essay, I want to show my mother’s beauty and the impact she has had on my life. Her kindness has taught me so much and has shaped me into who I am now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084317\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1500px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084317\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1500\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED.jpg 1500w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED-1152x1536.jpg 1152w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1500px) 100vw, 1500px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">From a young age, my mother has never failed to uphold her faith — the faith she represents with her beauty.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084318\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084318\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Just like a rose, my mother’s name is Rosa. Her beauty is often overlooked, but this is a chance to showcase it.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084319\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1500px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084319\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1500\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED.jpg 1500w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED-1152x1536.jpg 1152w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1500px) 100vw, 1500px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Whether it is going to the school, dentist, hospital or grocery store, she always makes sure we get there safely.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084320\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1500px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084320\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1500\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED.jpg 1500w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED-160x213.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED-1152x1536.jpg 1152w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1500px) 100vw, 1500px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The door I have gone in and out of for the majority of my life.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084321\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084321\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05_UPDATED-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05_UPDATED-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05_UPDATED-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05_UPDATED-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">No food can ever get close to the flavors my mom creates. Getting home from school means smelling our favorite meals.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084322\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084322\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1324\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED-160x106.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED-1536x1017.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">My name is Diego Sanchez. I’m my mother’s son, and I see myself through the images I capture.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084323\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084323\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">My mother’s constant support has shaped my upbringing. I’m now building other support systems and thriving as a rising college student. My girlfriend and I are on the left. My friend, my girlfriend and I are on the right.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084324\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1601px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084324\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1601\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED.jpg 1601w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED-160x200.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED-1230x1536.jpg 1230w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1601px) 100vw, 1601px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Only a paw away are my cats. They’ve stayed by my side for the past five years, bringing an extra layer of laughter.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084325\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084325\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1335\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Like other people’s childhoods, mine emerged in the playground. The same spot I drive by every day is the same spot I once wanted to stay in forever.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084327\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1907px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084327\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1907\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED.jpg 1907w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-160x168.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-DSM-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-1465x1536.jpg 1465w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1907px) 100vw, 1907px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">My mind is always in the light, the light filled with memories and future memories I’m creating.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Korey Gibson\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Hello, my name is \u003cstrong>Korey Gibson\u003c/strong>. I’m a sophomore at Oakland Tech in Oakland. I am a student and a younger brother. Some things I like to do are draw, hang out with friends, go on hikes, take photos and listen to music.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For this project, I chose my mother as my caregiver because she has always taken care of me and supported me. She is very charismatic, authentic and just an overall kind, amazing person. Throughout my struggles with my mental health, she has always supported me and been a shoulder for me to lean on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I am glad that I’ve gotten the support I needed. Having my mother to talk to has helped me so much with my mental health. Through this photo essay, I wanted to show how I feel and how my mom handles her mental health. I tried to capture photos that show even the little things that can give meaning in everyday life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084328\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084328\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-01-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This photo was just me capturing my mom while she was working and having a face mask on. She multitasks a lot, so I tried to capture the feeling of being busy but also focused.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084329\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1333px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084329\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1333\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED.jpg 1333w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-02-KQED-1024x1536.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1333px) 100vw, 1333px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">When I saw the fly on the window, I had my camera, and it was just chilling on the glass. It made me think about how it’s important to admire and appreciate the small things in the world, too, not just the large things.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084330\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084330\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-03-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">I took this photo in a rose garden after a storm. The flower was starting to wilt, and even while it was wilting, it still had this beauty to it. I wanted to capture it to show that even when something isn’t in the “best” condition, it’s still worth admiring.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084331\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1333px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084331\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1333\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED.jpg 1333w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-04-KQED-1024x1536.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1333px) 100vw, 1333px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This is a photo I took of some drawings I did. I was letting my mind wander, and my hands draw.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084332\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084332\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-05-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">I captured this photo of my mom when she was trying to decompress from a long day. We all just sat on the couch and watched TV.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084333\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1333px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1333\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED.jpg 1333w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-06-KQED-1024x1536.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1333px) 100vw, 1333px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">I took this photo because I really just liked the color of the plasma and I put my finger on the top to symbolize how I wanted to touch the plasma itself but I couldn’t.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084334\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084334\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-07-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">I took this photo of my cat because she moves around a lot, and sometimes she is a little chaotic. I felt like I captured that feel with the blur and movement.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084335\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1333px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084335\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1333\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED.jpg 1333w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-08-KQED-1024x1536.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1333px) 100vw, 1333px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">I took this photo of my mom and dad while we were on a walk in Alameda, just all taking a long walk around the water and getting fresh air.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084336\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084336\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-09-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">I took this photo in the rose garden. I liked the way the bush looked with the flowers, and the pink really caught my eye with the red roses in the background, too.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12084337\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1333px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12084337\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1333\" height=\"2000\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED.jpg 1333w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-160x240.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/2026.04.25-KG-MENTALHEALTHWORKSHOP-10-KQED-1024x1536.jpg 1024w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1333px) 100vw, 1333px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This last photo I captured of my mom was at Joaquin Miller Park. It was just my mom basking in the sun, and I was trying to capture her in her element out in nature because she really likes to be in nature.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ci>This project was produced jointly by KQED, YouthBeat and the CatchLight \u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.catchlight.io/mental-health\">\u003ci>mental health visual desk initiative\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>.\u003c/i>\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"title": "‘Momfluencers’ for Hire: Meta’s Campaign to Reshape Its Child Safety Image Faces Scrutiny",
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"headTitle": "‘Momfluencers’ for Hire: Meta’s Campaign to Reshape Its Child Safety Image Faces Scrutiny | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>When a parenting influencer posts a glowing Instagram Reel about how Meta’s Teen Accounts are keeping kids safe online, it can look like a mom just trying to help other moms. But a Washington, D.C.-based watchdog calls it part of a paid marketing campaign from \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101913414/addictive-social-media-is-harmful-to-youth-jury-says\">a heavily sued Big Tech company\u003c/a> in Silicon Valley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The nonprofit \u003ca href=\"https://www.techtransparencyproject.org/articles/meta-deploys-momfluencers-to-counter-child-safety-criticism\">Tech Transparency Project’s\u003c/a> latest investigation documents how Meta has deployed a sprawling network of paid Instagram influencers like Huff to promote its Teen Account safety features to millions of parents. Meta’s campaign coincides with an onslaught of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101913414/addictive-social-media-is-harmful-to-youth-jury-says\">child safety lawsuits\u003c/a> against the company, including jury verdicts in March 2026 that found Meta liable for deliberately harming minors, and another filed just last week in \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12083109/santa-clara-county-takes-on-meta-scam-ads-in-lawsuit\">Santa Clara County\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The report cited an October 2024 \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/reels/DBRJvXDPRaz/\">post\u003c/a> by influencer Sadie Robertson Huff, known for starring in the reality TV series \u003cem>Duck Dynasty\u003c/em>. “Even as the parent of a 3-year-old, I already worry about the future of social media,” she wrote. Huff typically posts about her family and Christian faith to her more than five million Instagram followers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The fact that Instagram is thinking about this for teens and trying to help parents have a peace of mind is amazing,” the post continued. It also featured a #MetaPartner tag — but buried at the bottom of the glowing endorsement is a small print disclosure that she has a paid partnership with Instagram.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The investigation also identified at least 11 doctors and psychologists with financial ties to Meta who publicly promoted the Teen Accounts, in some cases on television, without consistently disclosing those relationships.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You have these influencers being paid to push what is essentially a faulty product in the first place,” said Katie Paul, director of the Tech Transparency Project.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12038161\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12038161 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The nonprofit Tech Transparency Project’s latest investigation documents how Meta has deployed a network of paid Instagram influencers to promote its Teen Account safety features to millions of parents. \u003ccite>(Jade Gao/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://familycenter.meta.com/our-products/instagram/\">Meta promotes Teen Accounts\u003c/a> as a safer Instagram experience for users ages 13 to 17, with content filters, screen time limits and parental supervision tools. The company has hosted what it calls \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/p/DCmDOAOOzTk/\">Screen Smart events\u003c/a> in cities across the country, where influencers collect branded swag and hear Meta’s messaging. Many of the posts that follow include a “paid partnership” label or hashtag. Some don’t.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One medical influencer, who spoke to TTP on background because they’d signed a non-disclosure agreement, said they felt “manipulated” after learning about the child safety lawsuits against Meta. They said Meta edited their script to remove language acknowledging social media’s negative effects on kids, before algorithmically boosting the post to millions of views.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Meta has also recruited influencer dads, like reality TV star Leroy Garrett, who has nearly 300,000 Instagram followers. He attended a Screen Smart event in Chicago in April 2026 and \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/royleethebarber/reel/DW9ZQhwkX5A/\">posted \u003c/a>a paid endorsement of Teen Accounts. In a statement to CNN, he defended the arrangement: “Partnering with Meta allows me to contribute to this important conversation and advocate for the well-being of our children in the digital landscape.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a statement provided to KQED, a Meta spokesperson wrote, “Teen Accounts provide built-in protections for young people and give parents concrete tools to supervise their teens’ experience. We proudly work with parents and creators to spread the word about these controls and encourage people to use them.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Our critics claim to care about safety, but attacking efforts to educate parents proves they are more interested in headlines than actually helping families,” it continued.[aside postID=news_12072425 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/05/AP24134775174210-1020x680.jpg']The spokesperson also noted that partnering with influencers to raise awareness has become standard industry practice, pointing to similar arrangements at TikTok, Snap and Roblox.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Paul didn’t dispute that other platforms use influencer marketing. But she argued that Meta warrants particular scrutiny. Though Pew Research consistently shows YouTube leadings among teens, with TikTok second, Meta’s internal documents, surfaced through litigation, demonstrate how long the company has been aware of harms to children while choosing not to act. The Teen Accounts themselves, Paul asserted, were launched in 2024 largely by repackaging safety features that the company had already announced piecemeal in prior years — timed, she argues, to counter the momentum of lawsuits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s still just passing the buck on responsibility, rather than moderating the platforms and making them safe in the first place,” Paul said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A \u003cem>Washington Post\u003c/em> investigation found that Teen Accounts “fail spectacularly” to shield young users from content related to sex, alcohol and drugs. TTP’s own researchers found that searching a hashtag as simple as #fight from a Teen Account surfaced graphic content, the same type of content Meta explicitly claimed its filters would block.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Paul said Meta also needs to hire more human content moderators, rather than rely heavily on artificial intelligence for moderation. “Time and again, it’s a very small team of researchers, or in some cases journalists, that are easily, at a very basic level, able to surface these issues,” Paul said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The stakes are rising. A trial pitting school districts against Meta and other social media companies is expected this summer, part of a wave of litigation that legal observers say will attempt to force Silicon Valley to take accountability for child safety. TTP said it has more reporting to come on how tech companies use outside networks to shape public opinion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For parents trying to navigate all of this, the influencer telling you that Instagram is working hard to keep your teenager safe may genuinely believe it. She might have also been paid — and may not have understood the larger context around her claims.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>When a parenting influencer posts a glowing Instagram Reel about how Meta’s Teen Accounts are keeping kids safe online, it can look like a mom just trying to help other moms. But a Washington, D.C.-based watchdog calls it part of a paid marketing campaign from \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101913414/addictive-social-media-is-harmful-to-youth-jury-says\">a heavily sued Big Tech company\u003c/a> in Silicon Valley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The nonprofit \u003ca href=\"https://www.techtransparencyproject.org/articles/meta-deploys-momfluencers-to-counter-child-safety-criticism\">Tech Transparency Project’s\u003c/a> latest investigation documents how Meta has deployed a sprawling network of paid Instagram influencers like Huff to promote its Teen Account safety features to millions of parents. Meta’s campaign coincides with an onslaught of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101913414/addictive-social-media-is-harmful-to-youth-jury-says\">child safety lawsuits\u003c/a> against the company, including jury verdicts in March 2026 that found Meta liable for deliberately harming minors, and another filed just last week in \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12083109/santa-clara-county-takes-on-meta-scam-ads-in-lawsuit\">Santa Clara County\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The report cited an October 2024 \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/reels/DBRJvXDPRaz/\">post\u003c/a> by influencer Sadie Robertson Huff, known for starring in the reality TV series \u003cem>Duck Dynasty\u003c/em>. “Even as the parent of a 3-year-old, I already worry about the future of social media,” she wrote. Huff typically posts about her family and Christian faith to her more than five million Instagram followers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The fact that Instagram is thinking about this for teens and trying to help parents have a peace of mind is amazing,” the post continued. It also featured a #MetaPartner tag — but buried at the bottom of the glowing endorsement is a small print disclosure that she has a paid partnership with Instagram.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The investigation also identified at least 11 doctors and psychologists with financial ties to Meta who publicly promoted the Teen Accounts, in some cases on television, without consistently disclosing those relationships.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You have these influencers being paid to push what is essentially a faulty product in the first place,” said Katie Paul, director of the Tech Transparency Project.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12038161\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12038161 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The nonprofit Tech Transparency Project’s latest investigation documents how Meta has deployed a network of paid Instagram influencers to promote its Teen Account safety features to millions of parents. \u003ccite>(Jade Gao/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://familycenter.meta.com/our-products/instagram/\">Meta promotes Teen Accounts\u003c/a> as a safer Instagram experience for users ages 13 to 17, with content filters, screen time limits and parental supervision tools. The company has hosted what it calls \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/p/DCmDOAOOzTk/\">Screen Smart events\u003c/a> in cities across the country, where influencers collect branded swag and hear Meta’s messaging. Many of the posts that follow include a “paid partnership” label or hashtag. Some don’t.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One medical influencer, who spoke to TTP on background because they’d signed a non-disclosure agreement, said they felt “manipulated” after learning about the child safety lawsuits against Meta. They said Meta edited their script to remove language acknowledging social media’s negative effects on kids, before algorithmically boosting the post to millions of views.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Meta has also recruited influencer dads, like reality TV star Leroy Garrett, who has nearly 300,000 Instagram followers. He attended a Screen Smart event in Chicago in April 2026 and \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/royleethebarber/reel/DW9ZQhwkX5A/\">posted \u003c/a>a paid endorsement of Teen Accounts. In a statement to CNN, he defended the arrangement: “Partnering with Meta allows me to contribute to this important conversation and advocate for the well-being of our children in the digital landscape.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a statement provided to KQED, a Meta spokesperson wrote, “Teen Accounts provide built-in protections for young people and give parents concrete tools to supervise their teens’ experience. We proudly work with parents and creators to spread the word about these controls and encourage people to use them.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Our critics claim to care about safety, but attacking efforts to educate parents proves they are more interested in headlines than actually helping families,” it continued.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The spokesperson also noted that partnering with influencers to raise awareness has become standard industry practice, pointing to similar arrangements at TikTok, Snap and Roblox.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Paul didn’t dispute that other platforms use influencer marketing. But she argued that Meta warrants particular scrutiny. Though Pew Research consistently shows YouTube leadings among teens, with TikTok second, Meta’s internal documents, surfaced through litigation, demonstrate how long the company has been aware of harms to children while choosing not to act. The Teen Accounts themselves, Paul asserted, were launched in 2024 largely by repackaging safety features that the company had already announced piecemeal in prior years — timed, she argues, to counter the momentum of lawsuits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s still just passing the buck on responsibility, rather than moderating the platforms and making them safe in the first place,” Paul said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A \u003cem>Washington Post\u003c/em> investigation found that Teen Accounts “fail spectacularly” to shield young users from content related to sex, alcohol and drugs. TTP’s own researchers found that searching a hashtag as simple as #fight from a Teen Account surfaced graphic content, the same type of content Meta explicitly claimed its filters would block.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Paul said Meta also needs to hire more human content moderators, rather than rely heavily on artificial intelligence for moderation. “Time and again, it’s a very small team of researchers, or in some cases journalists, that are easily, at a very basic level, able to surface these issues,” Paul said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The stakes are rising. A trial pitting school districts against Meta and other social media companies is expected this summer, part of a wave of litigation that legal observers say will attempt to force Silicon Valley to take accountability for child safety. TTP said it has more reporting to come on how tech companies use outside networks to shape public opinion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For parents trying to navigate all of this, the influencer telling you that Instagram is working hard to keep your teenager safe may genuinely believe it. She might have also been paid — and may not have understood the larger context around her claims.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What happens when your therapist is… a chatbot?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For KQED health reporter Lesley McClurg, it started with a late-night spiral over dating. Instead of texting a friend, she opened ChatGPT and got the kind of calm, reassuring advice she needed. It worked… maybe a little too well.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lesley joins Morgan to dig into the rise of AI therapy, why so many people are turning to chatbots for emotional support, and what they might be risking in the process. These systems promise something traditional mental health care often can’t: instant, affordable, judgment-free access. But there are limits and, sometimes, serious consequences. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Note:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This episode includes discussions of suicide and mental health conditions. Listener discretion is advised.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode first aired on April 23rd, 2025 \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC4726760100\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guest:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/lesleymcclurg\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lesley McClurg\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, \u003cem>KQED\u003c/em> health correspondent\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Further Reading/Listening:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1996504/ai-replace-therapist-benefits-risks-unsettling-truths\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Can AI Replace Your Therapist? The Benefits, Risks and Unsettling Truths\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Lesley McClurg, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">KQED\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/04/07/nx-s1-5351312/artificial-intelligence-mental-health-therapy\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The AI therapist can see you now\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Katia Riddle, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">NPR\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://spectrum.ieee.org/woebot\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Woebot, a Mental-Health Chatbot, Tries Out Generative AI\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Casey Sackett, Devin Harper, and Aaron Pavez, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">IEEE Spectrum\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12057327/ai-prophets-and-spiritual-delusions\">AI Prophets and Spiritual Delusions\u003c/a> — \u003ci>Close All Tabs\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/urban-survival/202510/new-studies-reveal-mental-health-blindspots-of-ai-chatbots\">New Studies Reveal Mental Health Blindspots of AI Chatbots\u003c/a> — Marlynn Wei, \u003ci>Psychology Today\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/04/07/nx-s1-5771707/mental-health-care-workforce-artificial-intelligence-ai\">AI in the mental health care workforce is met with fear, pushback — and enthusiasm\u003c/a> — Rhitu Chatterjee, \u003ci>NPR\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Follow us on\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\"> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Instagram\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@closealltabs\"> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">TikTok\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey! You’re listening to Close All Tabs, and I’m Morgan Sung. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">May is Mental Health Awareness Month. With the proliferation of AI tools over the last few years, many people have turned to chatbots for companionship, advice … and even therapy. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It makes sense — healthcare in the US can be completely inaccessible, especially when it comes to mental health treatment. But in some cases, AI chatbots can put very vulnerable users in danger.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In light of that, mental health has been at the forefront of conversations about AI use. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So today, for Mental Health Awareness Month, we’re re-airing an episode that explores that exact topic. A quick heads up: this episode includes discussion of suicide and mental health conditions, which may be distressing for some listeners. If you or someone you know needs support, we’ll have links to resources in the episode description.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, I was going through a divorce and started dating after my divorce and hadn’t dated in many years and came home after a date one night and was just really anxious and kind of disheveled and needed some advice. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is KQED health reporter Lesley McClurg. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was late at night and I had used ChatGPT for, you know, other things and found it pretty helpful and I thought, what about for this moment in my life? And so I asked Chat whether or not I should reach out to this person that I had just dated because I was feeling like the night hadn’t gone that well.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was late at night. She didn’t want to bug a friend about this, and really, she was feeling pretty vulnerable. She didn’t want to be judged. And so, ChatGPT was right there, ready to cheerfully answer her questions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was surprised that it was so good. I just remember after, you know, a few back and forths, I realized that really I was just nervous, really I just needed to take a deep breath. Basically I had created a big storm in my head. And Chat basically was like, “hey, chill, relax, it could have gone well. There’s another way this could have played out, not the sort of devastating reality that you’re playing out right now. Maybe give it a day or two and then reach out.” And so in that moment, it just sort of helped me take the gas off and come back into myself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was exactly what she needed to hear at the time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I didn’t text the person, which was the right call, and kind of used it as I warmed myself back up into the dating world, and it was really helpful. And so it made me then, as a reporter, start asking, “should I be telling this thing all about my love life? Is this a good idea, privacy-wise, et cetera?” And so that’s where it sort of seeded my reporting going forward. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lesley isn’t the only one turning to ChatGPT for therapy. If you’ve ever dealt with any health insurance company, you’re probably familiar with the hassle of getting care. And mental health care is especially inaccessible. AI chatbots though, they’re convenient, cost little to nothing to use, and in Lesley’s case, can actually be pretty helpful. But a lot of people are also wary of turning to AI for therapy, can you trust it? What are you risking when you share your most vulnerable thoughts with a chatbot? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Close All Tabs. I’m Morgan Sung, tech journalist and your chronically online friend, here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Let’s get into it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Access to actual mental health resources has become so limited. Cost and insurance aside, there’s a shortage of licensed human mental health professionals across the country. But can AI therapy really replace actual therapists? Okay, new tab. Does AI therapy work? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Over the course of your reporting, did you meet anyone who actually used an AI chatbot for therapy? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I actually talked to quite a few people who used AI therapy and I went online and read a lot of Reddit threads because this is quite the popular topic. I heard more positive stories than negatives. As a reporter, I wanted to illustrate someone who kind of had a nuanced experience, you know, good and bad. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, Lesley found a woman named Lilly Payne:. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She had kind of the ideal story to illustrate that, yes, it helped her, but it wasn’t ideal. And so that was sort of like the character that I ended up, you know, focusing on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In your story, you mentioned that Lilly had turned to AI therapy um during the COVID lockdowns, which were a terrible time for a lot of us. But Lilly wasn’t just experiencing, you know, anxiety and depression and loneliness. Her situation was a little more complicated, right? Can you talk about that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I mean in her words, her life basically fell apart. She graduated from college, she had moved to New York City to pursue an arts career, was very excited. And if we can remember, you know, New York was sort of the epicenter of the early days of COVID. It was really bad. Lockdown was really scary and the hospitals were overflowing and it was not a good scene. And so she left her arts career, abandoned her dreams and moved back home, which was pretty painful, to her parents’ home in Kentucky. And she is sort of tucked away, and it just felt like a big failure. And she was really struggling with like, what’s next for my life? Where do I go from here? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lilly Payne: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was such a lonely time for so many people. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Lilly. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lilly Payne: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was not at a breaking point, but I wasn’t doing awesome. So I was like, “the more help, the better.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so in all of that anxiety, she, you know, initially reached out and leaned on a lot of friends, but eventually she felt like she’d kind of worn those supports thin. And so she read about Woebot, this AI therapy platform in a health newsletter. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lilly Payne: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, I gave it a shot because I was like, why not? Everyone’s cooped up in their house. I will talk to this robot. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Initially it was really helpful. It did help her calm herself. I think she said she, you know, even just having it in her pocket helped her feel more in control in her life. I think she relied on it quite a bit in those early days to kind of find her ground again and be able to focus on, you know, re-imagining a new life from there while she was back at home with her parents in Kentucky. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s worth noting that Woebot is a therapy-specific AI chatbot, and it doesn’t use generative AI to respond to users the way that other tools like ChatGPT, or Claude, or DeepSeek do. This means that its interactions with users are a bit more predictable. It’s also engineered to respond the way that a therapist might. So instead of immediately jumping into offering advice, Woebot asks specific questions to encourage users to reflect and do the inner work themselves. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, it was designed by a psychologist. And so, you know, from that perspective, it it really is designed to focus on your mental health. The goal of Woebot is, you know, as a mental health tool, as a wellness tool, I think is how they market themselves. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Woebot is designed to use a set of techniques called cognitive behavioral therapy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, cognitive behavioral therapy helps you reframe your negative thoughts using specific exercises. And, you know, I think as any CBT, which is what it’s acronym is, it feels a little forced, but she did say it did help her reframe those negative thoughts and that she was able to think more more positively. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Can you talk about uh Lilly’s uh other diagnosis that maybe complicated this form of treatment? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She has obsessive-compulsive disorder, and sometimes that makes her fixate on worst-case scenarios. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lilly Payne: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Most of the time when people think about OCD they think of, just the very cliche like, “oh, you can’t stop washing your hands, you’re afraid of germs.” While that is a very real subtype that people experience, typically OCD like manifests in really taboo intrusive thoughts, and then the physical compulsions stem from trying to keep those themes away. And so, logically, you can know that, like, this doesn’t make sense, it’s not actually happening, but it just, it, it’s not just in your head, like physically it feels so real. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lilly is also diagnosed with anxiety and depression. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A symptom of depression is suicide ideation eventually, right? So she fixated on the idea that eventually because of her depression, that she may think about killing herself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lilly Payne: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My brain would be like, “Oh, you’ve struggled with depression in the past. There’s no saying that one day you won’t want to go through with suicide.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so she mentioned that she was worried about suicide in a session with Woebot. And Woebot came back and had a crisis alert and said, “hey, you better call the suicide hotline.” And she said, “no, no no, wait a second.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lilly Payne: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m not experiencing suicidal inclinations, I’m just terrified that I will. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And luckily she knew that, she understood her disorder enough to know that nuance and to know what was happening in her brain because she had done so much previous therapy. But she said, you know, if she hadn’t really understood her disease, having that crisis alert come up may have even added more stress. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lilly Payne: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I would have freaked out and been like, “oh my gosh, this this thing that is supposed to have this mental health knowledge thinks that I am suicidal. I must be suicidal, I must be a danger to myself.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, you know, in defense of Woebot, they came back and said, “hey, we’re not, you know, specifically targeting or for people who have OCD. We really are just a wellness tool. “But her story illustrates where AI doesn’t necessarily have the nuance, the understanding — that a human, like a human therapist would have picked up on that. They would have understood that she had OCD and really understood the nuances of that, whereas in this case, Woebot didn’t. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right. It sounds like Wobot was inadvertently validating this intrusive thought that she was having because she has OCD. And when you’re really depressed or anxious, it might be helpful for your feelings to be validated like that. But how does that compare to the recommended treatment for OCD? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean the recommended treatment for OCD is generally exposure therapy. So you expose yourself to whatever you’re scared of. And so in this case, a therapist would work with her in terms of exposing herself to those ideas, probably walk her through, you know, reality, et cetera, in a way that allows her to lean into her fears so that they’re not as scary and sort of wound up and keep going. And sort of overtake her. Whereas you, like a therapist wouldn’t stand up with a red flag and say, “Oh my God, you really are suicidal. Therefore you should call a hotline.” Right? Which is basically what Woebot did. Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lilly’s case is just one example of the limits of AI therapy. Responding with a crisis alert wasn’t helpful for her specific needs, but it’s probably good that Woebot even has those guardrails in place. But what happens when AI chatbots go off script? How bad can it get? We’ll get into that when we come back. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">New tab. AI therapy … worst case scenarios. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So Woebot can’t necessarily respond with the nuance of an actual human therapist. But it seems like it wasn’t giving Lilly bad advice. Um but let’s talk about examples of AI therapy doing the exact opposite of what it’s supposed to do. What happened with the National Eating Disorder Association hotline? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, that didn’t play out very well. They created a bot named Tessa and some of the users found that Tessa was giving them dieting advice. So these are folks \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh god. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Who have, you know, anorexia, bulimia, and somehow Tessa’s wires got crossed and people were getting the exact advice that would be really dangerous for their eating disorders. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sharon Maxwell: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The recommendations that Tessa gave me was that I could lose one to two pounds per week, that I should eat no more than 2,000 calories in a day, that I should have a calorie deficit of 500 to 1,000 calories per day. All of which might sound benign to the general listener, however, to an individual with an eating disorder, the focus of weight loss really fuels the eating disorder. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was Sharon Maxwell, an eating disorder recovery educator, speaking to NPR about her experience with Tessa. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, NEDA, the National Eating Disorder Association, you know, pulled Tessa down and said, “this isn’t working very well.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it sounds like they just didn’t have that kind of guardrail in place. Like they didn’t anticipate that. Um, so even if Lilly didn’t really need Woebot to immediately jump into crisis mode, at least it had that guardrail to say, like, “hey, crisis.” But in the past, other AI chatbots have gotten into serious trouble for not responding to users’ red flags and just validating their responses. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that happened in the case of Character AI, this AI app that lets users personalize an AI companion based on fictional characters, celebrities, historical figures, all that. Until a recent lawsuit, Character AI did not have any safety measures or disclaimers warning users that they weren’t talking to a real person. What led to this lawsuit? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, there was a 14-year-old who grew really attached to his character that he had created. Like you said, Character AI lets you create a character and then interact with that character. And, you know, not surprisingly, kind of like I did in my first experience with ChatGPT, it feels so good that you develop a little bit of an emotional connection. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so this 14-year-old did that over the course of several months. And then he started opening up about some of the distress that he was feeling. And the character, instead of steering, you know, this 14-year-old towards help, unfortunately the bot allegedly reinforced some suicidal thoughts and eventually the boy ended up taking his life. And so the lawsuit, \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s terrible. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Exactly, it was really kind of horrific and it’s not the only one like this. There’s only a handful at this point, but it really is raising the red flag that these very empathetic responses are sort of like, you know parroting back, which is, again, what some AI does. Uh it can play out really, really poorly. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Morgan Sung:\u003c/strong> In January 2026, Character.AI agreed to settle multiple lawsuits that alleged that the chatbot contributed to mental health issues among teenagers. Other companies have faced similar lawsuits, after several users died by suicide, allegedly at the encouragement of chatbots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So what happened with the eating disorder hotline and Character AI, those are pretty extreme cases. Will most people actually experience those worst case scenarios? In your research, did you find anything about that? Or is it just like, are these just edge cases? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean we don’t have numbers yet. I think it’s really early in the arc of this technology. I think the experts are most worried about platforms that are like Character AI, where you are building a relationship with a character. In their defense, they’re not built as mental health tools, right? These are not marketing themselves as mental health tools. They are, you know, marketing themselves as, “hey, here, we’re going to give you a friend.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yet, you know, like a friend, like you and I probably do with our friends, we lean on our friends. We talk to our friends. We build emotional connections with our friends. We trust our friends for the right advice, right? And these are robots. So that relationship is not uh, you know, built on human connection. And like we can see it can go wrong. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another concern that I have, you know, as a tech reporter is uh privacy. ChatGPT, for example, isn’t HIPAA compliant. Could you explain what HIPPA is and why it’s necessary with medical information? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I mean HIPAA is the regulation that keeps all of our data safe. So when you go to the doctor, a doctor is required to keep all of your medical information, you know, totally private. It’s not going to be given anywhere. It’s not going to leak away. That is the privacy regulations. Now, some of these platforms, you know, for example, like Woebot, uh Rosebud is one, which is a platform that’s more like a journaling service. Uh you know, they say they’re HIPAA compliant, but there’s no one regulating them. It’s not like the American Medical Association is regulating them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, that data, you don’t really know where it’s going. You’re trusting these companies who are profit driven. You know, I mean, hopefully Woebot and Rosebud, you know, are following their own promises to their consumers. But there might be other companies that, you know, definitely ChatGPT is not, you know, promising that they’re HIPAA compliant. And, you know, that information is being used, is being put out there to retrain the model. And so, you know, hopefully they’re not gonna sell your data to advertisers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, also, I mean, the kind of a worst-case scenario, this fortunately hasn’t happened yet, but, you know, what if your mental health information gets out there, an insurance company gets wind of that, and your premiums start going up because they know that you’re struggling with something. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh wow. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, you know, again, that hasn’t happen yet. Those are sort of like the worst- case scenarios. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But again, worst-case scenarios. Right. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Exactly. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Obviously, the priority of pretty much any for profit company is to monetize. But, do AI companies have any incentive to improve as more people turn to their products for therapy, even if they aren’t necessarily mental health specific chatbots? Um, you know, are there better safety measures, more transparency about data collection, especially given the Character AI lawsuit? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think they have that incentive. They also have the incentive to keep you hooked. So I think that’s the sort of like fine line. We’ve seen that with all social media, right? They’re getting a lot better at keeping our attention. AI companies have the same needs and incentives to keep people coming back. And so, you know, I think it’s gonna be a gray area and it’s going to be, unfortunately, like the social media companies, it’s gonna be really up to the creators of these products on whether or not they’re gonna have a really ethical orientation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Despite all of these issues, therapy is so inaccessible that unfortunately, AI chatbots might feel like the only immediate tool that people have when seeking treatment. How did we get here? Let’s open one last tab. The mental healthcare crisis. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You had mentioned earlier the state of mental health care. Why is it so hard to see a therapist? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I mean, the demand for mental health services is really at an all-time high, and it’s surged even more, you know, since the pandemic began and continues to do so. I think there’s something like one in five Americans have some kind of a mental health issue, and yet they have a significant barrier to getting to a therapist. You know, I think it’s 55% of counties, people don’t have access to a psychotherapist or a social worker or a psychologist. They’re just aren’t any in that area. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so, you know, I think because of this issue that these sort of mental health deserts, AI is a kind of natural fill-in. You know, It’s available 24-7. You don’t need insurance to get there. You don’t have a high deductible. Uh, you don’t have to prove to anyone that, you know, that you have a mental health condition. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You don’t get accepted. Uh, so it’s easy and accessible. And I think that it will mean that more and more people are going to use this and hopefully, they’ll be well-informed consumers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. You know, given the shortage of providers, and like you mentioned, insurance issues. Um, since the pandemic started, telehealth therapy has become pretty popular. But I’ve seen a lot of complaints about these kind of quick, one-size-fits-all mental health care platforms like BetterHelp, which matches users with Licensed Therapist or Cerebral, which sets users up with a psychiatrist that can prescribe medications like antidepressants or ADHD meds. And both of these services were created to, kind of fill this void that you’re talking about, but at the same time, they’re kind of plagued with their own issues. It seems like making therapy quick and accessible isn’t always as easy as it seems. What do you think? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think there’s absolutely a role for telehealth. I think there’s absolutely a role for AI therapy. I think anyone would probably say that having a really heartfelt connection with a therapist in an office, live human, feels different than if you are talking to a screen. And the emotional repair that can happen in that session with a live human I think is different and potentially more profound than with a robot. That might change over time. You know, I don’t know how good these things are going to get. They already feel a little bit too good for my own comfort. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, but they might, they might get even better. You know, same thing, I think the telehealth model at this point is pretty early. I think that they are still refining how well those things work. I think it’s similar with AI therapy. And, you know, I think the, the tricky thing here as well with any of these technological solutions is that we are also living in a pretty isolated way in our lives right now. If you’re taking even like your therapy to a computer, that’s one less human that you’re interacting with. And maybe you’re, you know, mental health issues are because you’re dealing with isolation, with estrangement, with disconnection. Those feelings might even become more escalated if you’re, you know, using telehealth or using AI therapy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I saw both responses and reflections when I was reading these Reddit threads, you know, from people who were in rural places. I knew that they were feeling more isolated using an AI therapy and others who said, “you know, it was a godsend because I was so alone, at least someone was listening to me. ” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For your story on AI therapy, you talked to a bunch of psychologists and, you know, real-life human psychologists, um and, you know, someone from the American Psychological Association. Are human therapists concerned about being replaced by AI? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t hear that from them yet. Number one, they’re still really in high demand. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I don’t think they’re feeling that crunch yet. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s still a shortage, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s still a huge shortage. And I think, they’re, they’re fairly confident that what they offer is different than what AI therapy offers. And, you know, they can pick up on subtle cues that AI, you know, can’t, say like body language or, you know, pace of speech. These things can reveal a lot about our mental health state, and AI can’t pick up on that stuff. So, and in the deeper bonds, the deeper attachment work that you might do in therapy, I think therapists are quite confident that they’re still better at that. Uh, so in this moment, I would say they’re not, they’re not especially worried. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ve talked about the downsides of AI therapy pretty extensively. Um but, you had mentioned like that they can kind of be a tool in a bigger treatment plan while also seeing a real therapist. If someone is going to use AI therapy, how should they approach it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Yeah. I think, that’s the message I hope comes across in my reporting, is that, you know, there are these worst case scenarios. Again, I think that the consumer should be educated on how their data is going to be used and understand how the company operates so that they’re not sharing uh really vulnerable information. But I think as a sort of, you know, addition to your yoga, your meditation, your, uh, you know, walks in nature, I think AI can really be a self-regulation tool. And I think it can be used quite well. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, I talked to one company, Rosebud, which is a kind of journaling platform, which it asks you questions to kind of inspire you to express whatever’s going on and help you reflect. And it can follow a thread. So if you mentioned something two weeks ago about your relationship and what was going wrong, it will check in with you about what is happening and help you make sense of that. And I was on it. You know, I’m not a huge pen and paper person. You know, I don’t write anything anymore, so my arm hurts really quickly. And so, I enjoy, you know, I like just would pick up my phone and I would journal just, you know, talking to it and it would ask me questions and it felt, you know, fairly similar to a conversation with a friend. And I would always feel quite a bit better afterwards. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, in that sense, I think it can be quite helpful because, you know, maybe I’m in therapy once a week, but I’m having a panic attack on Monday night and my, you know, appointment is not until Thursday. I think in that sense, you know, it’s four o’clock in the morning. I can’t call a human therapist no matter what, even if I do have one. You know, to sit down and have the opportunity to have something that’s engaging me, um, I think can be really helpful. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m really curious, since you started reporting on this story, have you used ChatGPT, uh, not necessarily as a therapist, but you know, as this kind of mental health tool that you’re talking about since? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I wish I had the positive spin to be like, “yes, I’m relying on it all the time.” You know, I didn’t and I don’t. Um, I felt a little bit like one more thing to do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I felt similarly, you know, we talked about Lilly at the beginning of the story, and the reason that she stopped using Woebot was not because, you know, it had the crisis alert or it sort of like poorly dealt with her OCD, she got tired of being on her phone. She was like, “I didn’t want to be on my phone anymore. I wanted to talk to someone.”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I feel that. You know, that was, that was, kind of my reasoning, you know, because of my job, I’m on a computer, you know, nearly all day long, and I didn’t want one more thing on the computer or one more thing on my phone. I can imagine, you know, if I was going through a really tough time again, you know, turning to it. Um, luckily, I’m in a bit of a good moment, so I haven’t been using it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. You can unplug now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Exactly. I’m going to enjoy this moment and ride the wave of goodness. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks again to KQED’s Lesley McClurg: for talking with us about this story. You can check out more of her reporting on healthcare, including this story on AI Therapy at KQED.org. Again, AI therapy tools work best when they’re used in addition to treatment under a licensed professional. But if it’s the only option accessible to you right now, there are AI tools specifically designed for mental health and wellness that might be more useful than the general chatbots like ChatGPT or Claude. For now, let’s close these tabs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios, and is reported and hosted by me, Morgan Sung. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode was produced by Maya Cueva and edited by Chris Egusa, who also composed our theme song and credits music.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Close All Tabs team also includes editor Chris Hambrick and audio engineer Brendan Willard. Additional music by APM.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts, and Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>Keyboard sounds were recorded on my purple and pink Dustsilver K-84 wired mechanical keyboard with Gateron Red switches. If you have feedback, or a topic you think we should cover, hit us up at CloseAllTabs@kqed.org. \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And if you’re enjoying the show, give us a rating on Apple Podcasts or whatever platform you use. Thanks for listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"description": "What happens when your therapist is… a chatbot? For KQED health reporter Lesley McClurg, it started with a late-night spiral over dating. Instead of texting a friend, she opened ChatGPT and got the kind of calm, reassuring advice she needed. It worked… maybe a little too well.Lesley joins Morgan to dig into the rise of AI therapy, why so many people are turning to chatbots for emotional support, and what they might be risking in the process. These systems promise something traditional mental health care often can’t: instant, affordable, judgment-free access. But there are limits and, sometimes, serious consequences. Note: This episode includes discussions of suicide and mental health conditions. Listener discretion is advised. This episode first aired on April 23rd, 2025. ",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What happens when your therapist is… a chatbot?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For KQED health reporter Lesley McClurg, it started with a late-night spiral over dating. Instead of texting a friend, she opened ChatGPT and got the kind of calm, reassuring advice she needed. It worked… maybe a little too well.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lesley joins Morgan to dig into the rise of AI therapy, why so many people are turning to chatbots for emotional support, and what they might be risking in the process. These systems promise something traditional mental health care often can’t: instant, affordable, judgment-free access. But there are limits and, sometimes, serious consequences. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Note:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This episode includes discussions of suicide and mental health conditions. Listener discretion is advised.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode first aired on April 23rd, 2025 \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC4726760100\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guest:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/lesleymcclurg\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lesley McClurg\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, \u003cem>KQED\u003c/em> health correspondent\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Further Reading/Listening:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1996504/ai-replace-therapist-benefits-risks-unsettling-truths\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Can AI Replace Your Therapist? The Benefits, Risks and Unsettling Truths\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Lesley McClurg, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">KQED\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/04/07/nx-s1-5351312/artificial-intelligence-mental-health-therapy\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The AI therapist can see you now\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Katia Riddle, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">NPR\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://spectrum.ieee.org/woebot\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Woebot, a Mental-Health Chatbot, Tries Out Generative AI\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Casey Sackett, Devin Harper, and Aaron Pavez, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">IEEE Spectrum\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12057327/ai-prophets-and-spiritual-delusions\">AI Prophets and Spiritual Delusions\u003c/a> — \u003ci>Close All Tabs\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/urban-survival/202510/new-studies-reveal-mental-health-blindspots-of-ai-chatbots\">New Studies Reveal Mental Health Blindspots of AI Chatbots\u003c/a> — Marlynn Wei, \u003ci>Psychology Today\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/04/07/nx-s1-5771707/mental-health-care-workforce-artificial-intelligence-ai\">AI in the mental health care workforce is met with fear, pushback — and enthusiasm\u003c/a> — Rhitu Chatterjee, \u003ci>NPR\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Follow us on\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\"> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Instagram\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@closealltabs\"> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">TikTok\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey! You’re listening to Close All Tabs, and I’m Morgan Sung. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">May is Mental Health Awareness Month. With the proliferation of AI tools over the last few years, many people have turned to chatbots for companionship, advice … and even therapy. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It makes sense — healthcare in the US can be completely inaccessible, especially when it comes to mental health treatment. But in some cases, AI chatbots can put very vulnerable users in danger.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In light of that, mental health has been at the forefront of conversations about AI use. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So today, for Mental Health Awareness Month, we’re re-airing an episode that explores that exact topic. A quick heads up: this episode includes discussion of suicide and mental health conditions, which may be distressing for some listeners. If you or someone you know needs support, we’ll have links to resources in the episode description.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, I was going through a divorce and started dating after my divorce and hadn’t dated in many years and came home after a date one night and was just really anxious and kind of disheveled and needed some advice. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is KQED health reporter Lesley McClurg. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was late at night and I had used ChatGPT for, you know, other things and found it pretty helpful and I thought, what about for this moment in my life? And so I asked Chat whether or not I should reach out to this person that I had just dated because I was feeling like the night hadn’t gone that well.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was late at night. She didn’t want to bug a friend about this, and really, she was feeling pretty vulnerable. She didn’t want to be judged. And so, ChatGPT was right there, ready to cheerfully answer her questions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was surprised that it was so good. I just remember after, you know, a few back and forths, I realized that really I was just nervous, really I just needed to take a deep breath. Basically I had created a big storm in my head. And Chat basically was like, “hey, chill, relax, it could have gone well. There’s another way this could have played out, not the sort of devastating reality that you’re playing out right now. Maybe give it a day or two and then reach out.” And so in that moment, it just sort of helped me take the gas off and come back into myself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was exactly what she needed to hear at the time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I didn’t text the person, which was the right call, and kind of used it as I warmed myself back up into the dating world, and it was really helpful. And so it made me then, as a reporter, start asking, “should I be telling this thing all about my love life? Is this a good idea, privacy-wise, et cetera?” And so that’s where it sort of seeded my reporting going forward. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lesley isn’t the only one turning to ChatGPT for therapy. If you’ve ever dealt with any health insurance company, you’re probably familiar with the hassle of getting care. And mental health care is especially inaccessible. AI chatbots though, they’re convenient, cost little to nothing to use, and in Lesley’s case, can actually be pretty helpful. But a lot of people are also wary of turning to AI for therapy, can you trust it? What are you risking when you share your most vulnerable thoughts with a chatbot? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Close All Tabs. I’m Morgan Sung, tech journalist and your chronically online friend, here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Let’s get into it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Access to actual mental health resources has become so limited. Cost and insurance aside, there’s a shortage of licensed human mental health professionals across the country. But can AI therapy really replace actual therapists? Okay, new tab. Does AI therapy work? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Over the course of your reporting, did you meet anyone who actually used an AI chatbot for therapy? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I actually talked to quite a few people who used AI therapy and I went online and read a lot of Reddit threads because this is quite the popular topic. I heard more positive stories than negatives. As a reporter, I wanted to illustrate someone who kind of had a nuanced experience, you know, good and bad. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, Lesley found a woman named Lilly Payne:. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She had kind of the ideal story to illustrate that, yes, it helped her, but it wasn’t ideal. And so that was sort of like the character that I ended up, you know, focusing on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In your story, you mentioned that Lilly had turned to AI therapy um during the COVID lockdowns, which were a terrible time for a lot of us. But Lilly wasn’t just experiencing, you know, anxiety and depression and loneliness. Her situation was a little more complicated, right? Can you talk about that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I mean in her words, her life basically fell apart. She graduated from college, she had moved to New York City to pursue an arts career, was very excited. And if we can remember, you know, New York was sort of the epicenter of the early days of COVID. It was really bad. Lockdown was really scary and the hospitals were overflowing and it was not a good scene. And so she left her arts career, abandoned her dreams and moved back home, which was pretty painful, to her parents’ home in Kentucky. And she is sort of tucked away, and it just felt like a big failure. And she was really struggling with like, what’s next for my life? Where do I go from here? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lilly Payne: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was such a lonely time for so many people. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Lilly. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lilly Payne: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was not at a breaking point, but I wasn’t doing awesome. So I was like, “the more help, the better.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so in all of that anxiety, she, you know, initially reached out and leaned on a lot of friends, but eventually she felt like she’d kind of worn those supports thin. And so she read about Woebot, this AI therapy platform in a health newsletter. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lilly Payne: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, I gave it a shot because I was like, why not? Everyone’s cooped up in their house. I will talk to this robot. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Initially it was really helpful. It did help her calm herself. I think she said she, you know, even just having it in her pocket helped her feel more in control in her life. I think she relied on it quite a bit in those early days to kind of find her ground again and be able to focus on, you know, re-imagining a new life from there while she was back at home with her parents in Kentucky. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s worth noting that Woebot is a therapy-specific AI chatbot, and it doesn’t use generative AI to respond to users the way that other tools like ChatGPT, or Claude, or DeepSeek do. This means that its interactions with users are a bit more predictable. It’s also engineered to respond the way that a therapist might. So instead of immediately jumping into offering advice, Woebot asks specific questions to encourage users to reflect and do the inner work themselves. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, it was designed by a psychologist. And so, you know, from that perspective, it it really is designed to focus on your mental health. The goal of Woebot is, you know, as a mental health tool, as a wellness tool, I think is how they market themselves. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Woebot is designed to use a set of techniques called cognitive behavioral therapy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, cognitive behavioral therapy helps you reframe your negative thoughts using specific exercises. And, you know, I think as any CBT, which is what it’s acronym is, it feels a little forced, but she did say it did help her reframe those negative thoughts and that she was able to think more more positively. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Can you talk about uh Lilly’s uh other diagnosis that maybe complicated this form of treatment? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She has obsessive-compulsive disorder, and sometimes that makes her fixate on worst-case scenarios. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lilly Payne: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Most of the time when people think about OCD they think of, just the very cliche like, “oh, you can’t stop washing your hands, you’re afraid of germs.” While that is a very real subtype that people experience, typically OCD like manifests in really taboo intrusive thoughts, and then the physical compulsions stem from trying to keep those themes away. And so, logically, you can know that, like, this doesn’t make sense, it’s not actually happening, but it just, it, it’s not just in your head, like physically it feels so real. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lilly is also diagnosed with anxiety and depression. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A symptom of depression is suicide ideation eventually, right? So she fixated on the idea that eventually because of her depression, that she may think about killing herself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lilly Payne: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My brain would be like, “Oh, you’ve struggled with depression in the past. There’s no saying that one day you won’t want to go through with suicide.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so she mentioned that she was worried about suicide in a session with Woebot. And Woebot came back and had a crisis alert and said, “hey, you better call the suicide hotline.” And she said, “no, no no, wait a second.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lilly Payne: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m not experiencing suicidal inclinations, I’m just terrified that I will. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And luckily she knew that, she understood her disorder enough to know that nuance and to know what was happening in her brain because she had done so much previous therapy. But she said, you know, if she hadn’t really understood her disease, having that crisis alert come up may have even added more stress. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lilly Payne: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I would have freaked out and been like, “oh my gosh, this this thing that is supposed to have this mental health knowledge thinks that I am suicidal. I must be suicidal, I must be a danger to myself.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, you know, in defense of Woebot, they came back and said, “hey, we’re not, you know, specifically targeting or for people who have OCD. We really are just a wellness tool. “But her story illustrates where AI doesn’t necessarily have the nuance, the understanding — that a human, like a human therapist would have picked up on that. They would have understood that she had OCD and really understood the nuances of that, whereas in this case, Woebot didn’t. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right. It sounds like Wobot was inadvertently validating this intrusive thought that she was having because she has OCD. And when you’re really depressed or anxious, it might be helpful for your feelings to be validated like that. But how does that compare to the recommended treatment for OCD? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean the recommended treatment for OCD is generally exposure therapy. So you expose yourself to whatever you’re scared of. And so in this case, a therapist would work with her in terms of exposing herself to those ideas, probably walk her through, you know, reality, et cetera, in a way that allows her to lean into her fears so that they’re not as scary and sort of wound up and keep going. And sort of overtake her. Whereas you, like a therapist wouldn’t stand up with a red flag and say, “Oh my God, you really are suicidal. Therefore you should call a hotline.” Right? Which is basically what Woebot did. Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lilly’s case is just one example of the limits of AI therapy. Responding with a crisis alert wasn’t helpful for her specific needs, but it’s probably good that Woebot even has those guardrails in place. But what happens when AI chatbots go off script? How bad can it get? We’ll get into that when we come back. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">New tab. AI therapy … worst case scenarios. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So Woebot can’t necessarily respond with the nuance of an actual human therapist. But it seems like it wasn’t giving Lilly bad advice. Um but let’s talk about examples of AI therapy doing the exact opposite of what it’s supposed to do. What happened with the National Eating Disorder Association hotline? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, that didn’t play out very well. They created a bot named Tessa and some of the users found that Tessa was giving them dieting advice. So these are folks \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh god. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Who have, you know, anorexia, bulimia, and somehow Tessa’s wires got crossed and people were getting the exact advice that would be really dangerous for their eating disorders. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sharon Maxwell: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The recommendations that Tessa gave me was that I could lose one to two pounds per week, that I should eat no more than 2,000 calories in a day, that I should have a calorie deficit of 500 to 1,000 calories per day. All of which might sound benign to the general listener, however, to an individual with an eating disorder, the focus of weight loss really fuels the eating disorder. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was Sharon Maxwell, an eating disorder recovery educator, speaking to NPR about her experience with Tessa. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, NEDA, the National Eating Disorder Association, you know, pulled Tessa down and said, “this isn’t working very well.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it sounds like they just didn’t have that kind of guardrail in place. Like they didn’t anticipate that. Um, so even if Lilly didn’t really need Woebot to immediately jump into crisis mode, at least it had that guardrail to say, like, “hey, crisis.” But in the past, other AI chatbots have gotten into serious trouble for not responding to users’ red flags and just validating their responses. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that happened in the case of Character AI, this AI app that lets users personalize an AI companion based on fictional characters, celebrities, historical figures, all that. Until a recent lawsuit, Character AI did not have any safety measures or disclaimers warning users that they weren’t talking to a real person. What led to this lawsuit? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, there was a 14-year-old who grew really attached to his character that he had created. Like you said, Character AI lets you create a character and then interact with that character. And, you know, not surprisingly, kind of like I did in my first experience with ChatGPT, it feels so good that you develop a little bit of an emotional connection. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so this 14-year-old did that over the course of several months. And then he started opening up about some of the distress that he was feeling. And the character, instead of steering, you know, this 14-year-old towards help, unfortunately the bot allegedly reinforced some suicidal thoughts and eventually the boy ended up taking his life. And so the lawsuit, \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s terrible. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Exactly, it was really kind of horrific and it’s not the only one like this. There’s only a handful at this point, but it really is raising the red flag that these very empathetic responses are sort of like, you know parroting back, which is, again, what some AI does. Uh it can play out really, really poorly. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Morgan Sung:\u003c/strong> In January 2026, Character.AI agreed to settle multiple lawsuits that alleged that the chatbot contributed to mental health issues among teenagers. Other companies have faced similar lawsuits, after several users died by suicide, allegedly at the encouragement of chatbots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So what happened with the eating disorder hotline and Character AI, those are pretty extreme cases. Will most people actually experience those worst case scenarios? In your research, did you find anything about that? Or is it just like, are these just edge cases? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean we don’t have numbers yet. I think it’s really early in the arc of this technology. I think the experts are most worried about platforms that are like Character AI, where you are building a relationship with a character. In their defense, they’re not built as mental health tools, right? These are not marketing themselves as mental health tools. They are, you know, marketing themselves as, “hey, here, we’re going to give you a friend.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yet, you know, like a friend, like you and I probably do with our friends, we lean on our friends. We talk to our friends. We build emotional connections with our friends. We trust our friends for the right advice, right? And these are robots. So that relationship is not uh, you know, built on human connection. And like we can see it can go wrong. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another concern that I have, you know, as a tech reporter is uh privacy. ChatGPT, for example, isn’t HIPAA compliant. Could you explain what HIPPA is and why it’s necessary with medical information? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I mean HIPAA is the regulation that keeps all of our data safe. So when you go to the doctor, a doctor is required to keep all of your medical information, you know, totally private. It’s not going to be given anywhere. It’s not going to leak away. That is the privacy regulations. Now, some of these platforms, you know, for example, like Woebot, uh Rosebud is one, which is a platform that’s more like a journaling service. Uh you know, they say they’re HIPAA compliant, but there’s no one regulating them. It’s not like the American Medical Association is regulating them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, that data, you don’t really know where it’s going. You’re trusting these companies who are profit driven. You know, I mean, hopefully Woebot and Rosebud, you know, are following their own promises to their consumers. But there might be other companies that, you know, definitely ChatGPT is not, you know, promising that they’re HIPAA compliant. And, you know, that information is being used, is being put out there to retrain the model. And so, you know, hopefully they’re not gonna sell your data to advertisers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, also, I mean, the kind of a worst-case scenario, this fortunately hasn’t happened yet, but, you know, what if your mental health information gets out there, an insurance company gets wind of that, and your premiums start going up because they know that you’re struggling with something. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh wow. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, you know, again, that hasn’t happen yet. Those are sort of like the worst- case scenarios. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But again, worst-case scenarios. Right. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Exactly. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Obviously, the priority of pretty much any for profit company is to monetize. But, do AI companies have any incentive to improve as more people turn to their products for therapy, even if they aren’t necessarily mental health specific chatbots? Um, you know, are there better safety measures, more transparency about data collection, especially given the Character AI lawsuit? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think they have that incentive. They also have the incentive to keep you hooked. So I think that’s the sort of like fine line. We’ve seen that with all social media, right? They’re getting a lot better at keeping our attention. AI companies have the same needs and incentives to keep people coming back. And so, you know, I think it’s gonna be a gray area and it’s going to be, unfortunately, like the social media companies, it’s gonna be really up to the creators of these products on whether or not they’re gonna have a really ethical orientation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Despite all of these issues, therapy is so inaccessible that unfortunately, AI chatbots might feel like the only immediate tool that people have when seeking treatment. How did we get here? Let’s open one last tab. The mental healthcare crisis. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You had mentioned earlier the state of mental health care. Why is it so hard to see a therapist? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I mean, the demand for mental health services is really at an all-time high, and it’s surged even more, you know, since the pandemic began and continues to do so. I think there’s something like one in five Americans have some kind of a mental health issue, and yet they have a significant barrier to getting to a therapist. You know, I think it’s 55% of counties, people don’t have access to a psychotherapist or a social worker or a psychologist. They’re just aren’t any in that area. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so, you know, I think because of this issue that these sort of mental health deserts, AI is a kind of natural fill-in. You know, It’s available 24-7. You don’t need insurance to get there. You don’t have a high deductible. Uh, you don’t have to prove to anyone that, you know, that you have a mental health condition. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You don’t get accepted. Uh, so it’s easy and accessible. And I think that it will mean that more and more people are going to use this and hopefully, they’ll be well-informed consumers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. You know, given the shortage of providers, and like you mentioned, insurance issues. Um, since the pandemic started, telehealth therapy has become pretty popular. But I’ve seen a lot of complaints about these kind of quick, one-size-fits-all mental health care platforms like BetterHelp, which matches users with Licensed Therapist or Cerebral, which sets users up with a psychiatrist that can prescribe medications like antidepressants or ADHD meds. And both of these services were created to, kind of fill this void that you’re talking about, but at the same time, they’re kind of plagued with their own issues. It seems like making therapy quick and accessible isn’t always as easy as it seems. What do you think? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think there’s absolutely a role for telehealth. I think there’s absolutely a role for AI therapy. I think anyone would probably say that having a really heartfelt connection with a therapist in an office, live human, feels different than if you are talking to a screen. And the emotional repair that can happen in that session with a live human I think is different and potentially more profound than with a robot. That might change over time. You know, I don’t know how good these things are going to get. They already feel a little bit too good for my own comfort. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, but they might, they might get even better. You know, same thing, I think the telehealth model at this point is pretty early. I think that they are still refining how well those things work. I think it’s similar with AI therapy. And, you know, I think the, the tricky thing here as well with any of these technological solutions is that we are also living in a pretty isolated way in our lives right now. If you’re taking even like your therapy to a computer, that’s one less human that you’re interacting with. And maybe you’re, you know, mental health issues are because you’re dealing with isolation, with estrangement, with disconnection. Those feelings might even become more escalated if you’re, you know, using telehealth or using AI therapy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I saw both responses and reflections when I was reading these Reddit threads, you know, from people who were in rural places. I knew that they were feeling more isolated using an AI therapy and others who said, “you know, it was a godsend because I was so alone, at least someone was listening to me. ” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For your story on AI therapy, you talked to a bunch of psychologists and, you know, real-life human psychologists, um and, you know, someone from the American Psychological Association. Are human therapists concerned about being replaced by AI? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t hear that from them yet. Number one, they’re still really in high demand. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I don’t think they’re feeling that crunch yet. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s still a shortage, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s still a huge shortage. And I think, they’re, they’re fairly confident that what they offer is different than what AI therapy offers. And, you know, they can pick up on subtle cues that AI, you know, can’t, say like body language or, you know, pace of speech. These things can reveal a lot about our mental health state, and AI can’t pick up on that stuff. So, and in the deeper bonds, the deeper attachment work that you might do in therapy, I think therapists are quite confident that they’re still better at that. Uh, so in this moment, I would say they’re not, they’re not especially worried. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ve talked about the downsides of AI therapy pretty extensively. Um but, you had mentioned like that they can kind of be a tool in a bigger treatment plan while also seeing a real therapist. If someone is going to use AI therapy, how should they approach it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Yeah. I think, that’s the message I hope comes across in my reporting, is that, you know, there are these worst case scenarios. Again, I think that the consumer should be educated on how their data is going to be used and understand how the company operates so that they’re not sharing uh really vulnerable information. But I think as a sort of, you know, addition to your yoga, your meditation, your, uh, you know, walks in nature, I think AI can really be a self-regulation tool. And I think it can be used quite well. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, I talked to one company, Rosebud, which is a kind of journaling platform, which it asks you questions to kind of inspire you to express whatever’s going on and help you reflect. And it can follow a thread. So if you mentioned something two weeks ago about your relationship and what was going wrong, it will check in with you about what is happening and help you make sense of that. And I was on it. You know, I’m not a huge pen and paper person. You know, I don’t write anything anymore, so my arm hurts really quickly. And so, I enjoy, you know, I like just would pick up my phone and I would journal just, you know, talking to it and it would ask me questions and it felt, you know, fairly similar to a conversation with a friend. And I would always feel quite a bit better afterwards. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, in that sense, I think it can be quite helpful because, you know, maybe I’m in therapy once a week, but I’m having a panic attack on Monday night and my, you know, appointment is not until Thursday. I think in that sense, you know, it’s four o’clock in the morning. I can’t call a human therapist no matter what, even if I do have one. You know, to sit down and have the opportunity to have something that’s engaging me, um, I think can be really helpful. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m really curious, since you started reporting on this story, have you used ChatGPT, uh, not necessarily as a therapist, but you know, as this kind of mental health tool that you’re talking about since? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I wish I had the positive spin to be like, “yes, I’m relying on it all the time.” You know, I didn’t and I don’t. Um, I felt a little bit like one more thing to do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I felt similarly, you know, we talked about Lilly at the beginning of the story, and the reason that she stopped using Woebot was not because, you know, it had the crisis alert or it sort of like poorly dealt with her OCD, she got tired of being on her phone. She was like, “I didn’t want to be on my phone anymore. I wanted to talk to someone.”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I feel that. You know, that was, that was, kind of my reasoning, you know, because of my job, I’m on a computer, you know, nearly all day long, and I didn’t want one more thing on the computer or one more thing on my phone. I can imagine, you know, if I was going through a really tough time again, you know, turning to it. Um, luckily, I’m in a bit of a good moment, so I haven’t been using it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. You can unplug now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Exactly. I’m going to enjoy this moment and ride the wave of goodness. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks again to KQED’s Lesley McClurg: for talking with us about this story. You can check out more of her reporting on healthcare, including this story on AI Therapy at KQED.org. Again, AI therapy tools work best when they’re used in addition to treatment under a licensed professional. But if it’s the only option accessible to you right now, there are AI tools specifically designed for mental health and wellness that might be more useful than the general chatbots like ChatGPT or Claude. For now, let’s close these tabs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios, and is reported and hosted by me, Morgan Sung. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode was produced by Maya Cueva and edited by Chris Egusa, who also composed our theme song and credits music.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Close All Tabs team also includes editor Chris Hambrick and audio engineer Brendan Willard. Additional music by APM.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts, and Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>Keyboard sounds were recorded on my purple and pink Dustsilver K-84 wired mechanical keyboard with Gateron Red switches. If you have feedback, or a topic you think we should cover, hit us up at CloseAllTabs@kqed.org. \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And if you’re enjoying the show, give us a rating on Apple Podcasts or whatever platform you use. Thanks for listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"content": "\u003cp>On a sunny Friday afternoon at Memorial Glade, the center of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/uc-berkeley\">UC Berkeley’s campus\u003c/a>, students set up volleyball nets, cornhole, picnic blankets and a makeshift plywood stage for live music.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Their goal? To throw a phone-free party.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Music blasted from a speaker near a snack table. Colorful, handwritten signs read messages like “Favorite app? Delete it,” and “Take back your mind.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At a check-in table, students had the option to seal their cell phones in a plastic bag. Nearby, students propped up gravestones cut out of posterboard, each bearing the logo of a different social media app.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The event was hosted by \u003ca href=\"https://www.projectreboot.school/\">Project Reboot\u003c/a>, an organization born on Berkeley’s campus, with the mission of helping young people “reset their tech habits, reclaim their time and regain their focus.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The project began in the form of a semester-long class that helped students reduce their screen time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081401\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12081401 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/UCBNoPhones1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1500\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/UCBNoPhones1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/UCBNoPhones1-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/UCBNoPhones1-1536x1152.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A handmade sign reads “Live With Intention” at a phone-free event at UC Berkeley on Friday, April 24, 2026. \u003ccite>(Eliza Peppel/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“I feel like [screen] addiction has kind of been our birthright,” said Dawson Kelly, a third-year student and one of the event’s hosts. Kelly said he’s working on a thesis about digital dependence. “We need more infrastructure for our generation to take back our time, take back our agency, and look at all the things that have been stolen from us, and not let this be the anxious generation that we’ve been made out to be.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sahar Yousef, a Berkeley neuroscientist and lecturer who serves on Project Reboot’s research advisory board, said her students are increasingly pushing back “against the default of being on their phones, constantly scrolling.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This is truly a demonstration that they’ve wanted to put together,” Yousef said, “to demonstrate what has really been taken from them.”[aside postID=news_12078253 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/01/240104-PEOPLES-PARK-MD-05-1020x680.jpg']According to a survey of UC Berkeley undergraduates, 78% of students reported that they believe their phone use “prevents them from thinking deeply, being creative, or engaging fully with ideas.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Third-year students Ashlyn Torres and Izzy Newman said they found out about Friday’s event from a flier, instead of through the usual social media channels. Torres said she left her phone at home before joining.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was different this morning because I was able to recognize there is life around me,” she said. “And we probably should talk to each other more and just listen to what the world has to offer rather than just what our phones have to offer.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jonny Vasquez is a third-year student and advocate for reduced screen time on campus. To reach other students, he said, he started standing in a busy area of campus holding a sign that read, “Lowest screentime contest.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“People would either completely ignore the sign,” Vasquez said, “or they would come up and say, ‘Oh my goodness, I’ve been waiting for someone to help us with this.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Vasquez said that since he deleted his social media accounts, he’s stopped comparing himself to others and experiences greater overall satisfaction with his life. He said he hopes to continue to share that with others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081399\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12081399\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/UCBNoPhones3.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1500\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/UCBNoPhones3.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/UCBNoPhones3-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/UCBNoPhones3-1536x1152.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Students rally during a game of volleyball on the grass at a phone-free gathering at UC Berkeley on Friday, April 24, 2026. \u003ccite>(Eliza Peppel/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Several students offered each other tips about creating some distance with their phones, including plugging it in out of reach overnight, turning it completely off while socializing, and leaning on a community with like-minded goals to hold each other accountable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kelly said that the movement the students hope to create is about their personal agency.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“These are the peak years of our lives, and they’ve been stolen from us by companies that are making billions and billions of dollars every single year to take as much of our time as possible. We have to fight back, and we fight back by connecting and engaging in a life that we should have been living from the beginning.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>On a sunny Friday afternoon at Memorial Glade, the center of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/uc-berkeley\">UC Berkeley’s campus\u003c/a>, students set up volleyball nets, cornhole, picnic blankets and a makeshift plywood stage for live music.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Their goal? To throw a phone-free party.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Music blasted from a speaker near a snack table. Colorful, handwritten signs read messages like “Favorite app? Delete it,” and “Take back your mind.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At a check-in table, students had the option to seal their cell phones in a plastic bag. Nearby, students propped up gravestones cut out of posterboard, each bearing the logo of a different social media app.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The event was hosted by \u003ca href=\"https://www.projectreboot.school/\">Project Reboot\u003c/a>, an organization born on Berkeley’s campus, with the mission of helping young people “reset their tech habits, reclaim their time and regain their focus.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The project began in the form of a semester-long class that helped students reduce their screen time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081401\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12081401 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/UCBNoPhones1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1500\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/UCBNoPhones1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/UCBNoPhones1-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/UCBNoPhones1-1536x1152.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A handmade sign reads “Live With Intention” at a phone-free event at UC Berkeley on Friday, April 24, 2026. \u003ccite>(Eliza Peppel/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“I feel like [screen] addiction has kind of been our birthright,” said Dawson Kelly, a third-year student and one of the event’s hosts. Kelly said he’s working on a thesis about digital dependence. “We need more infrastructure for our generation to take back our time, take back our agency, and look at all the things that have been stolen from us, and not let this be the anxious generation that we’ve been made out to be.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sahar Yousef, a Berkeley neuroscientist and lecturer who serves on Project Reboot’s research advisory board, said her students are increasingly pushing back “against the default of being on their phones, constantly scrolling.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This is truly a demonstration that they’ve wanted to put together,” Yousef said, “to demonstrate what has really been taken from them.”\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>According to a survey of UC Berkeley undergraduates, 78% of students reported that they believe their phone use “prevents them from thinking deeply, being creative, or engaging fully with ideas.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Third-year students Ashlyn Torres and Izzy Newman said they found out about Friday’s event from a flier, instead of through the usual social media channels. Torres said she left her phone at home before joining.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was different this morning because I was able to recognize there is life around me,” she said. “And we probably should talk to each other more and just listen to what the world has to offer rather than just what our phones have to offer.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jonny Vasquez is a third-year student and advocate for reduced screen time on campus. To reach other students, he said, he started standing in a busy area of campus holding a sign that read, “Lowest screentime contest.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“People would either completely ignore the sign,” Vasquez said, “or they would come up and say, ‘Oh my goodness, I’ve been waiting for someone to help us with this.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Vasquez said that since he deleted his social media accounts, he’s stopped comparing himself to others and experiences greater overall satisfaction with his life. He said he hopes to continue to share that with others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081399\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12081399\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/UCBNoPhones3.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1500\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/UCBNoPhones3.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/UCBNoPhones3-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/UCBNoPhones3-1536x1152.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Students rally during a game of volleyball on the grass at a phone-free gathering at UC Berkeley on Friday, April 24, 2026. \u003ccite>(Eliza Peppel/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Several students offered each other tips about creating some distance with their phones, including plugging it in out of reach overnight, turning it completely off while socializing, and leaning on a community with like-minded goals to hold each other accountable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kelly said that the movement the students hope to create is about their personal agency.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“These are the peak years of our lives, and they’ve been stolen from us by companies that are making billions and billions of dollars every single year to take as much of our time as possible. We have to fight back, and we fight back by connecting and engaging in a life that we should have been living from the beginning.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "a-los-angeles-woman-was-lost-an-ambitious-mental-health-program-gave-her-a-sense-of-purpose",
"title": "A Los Angeles Woman Was Lost. An Ambitious Mental Health Program Gave Her a Sense of Purpose",
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"content": "\u003cp>When Mignon Poon strode into the small clubhouse kitchen \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/los-angeles-county\">in Hollywood\u003c/a> on a morning in late November, a lunch recipe waited on the table: for barbecued chicken, mac and cheese and collard greens.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She pulled on a pair of hygienic gloves and, with Motown vibes wafting from a Bluetooth speaker, got to work with two fellow members of the clubhouse, called \u003ca href=\"https://www.fountainhouse.org/services/hollywood\">Fountain House Hollywood\u003c/a>, chatting and singing along as they cooked.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For Poon, 66, this easy camaraderie was nearly unimaginable just three years ago.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She’d spent decades living with severe, untreated mental illness, bouncing from the streets to homeless shelters. To quiet her mind, she self-medicated with alcohol and, sometimes, hard drugs. It all led to countless nights spent sleeping on the hard ground.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This place right here saved me,” Poon, whose caramel eyes shine with playful mischief, said at the clubhouse, a bustling collective that operates out of a repurposed Sunset Boulevard office space. “Besides get up and start drinking, I get dressed and come here. It gives me something to look forward to.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076577\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_13-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076577\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_13-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_13-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_13-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_13-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mignon Annette Poon is pictured at Fountain House Hollywood, also known as “the clubhouse” in Los Angeles, on March 9, 2026. \u003ccite>(Alisha Jucevic/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The private, nonprofit clubhouse is open to anyone diagnosed with a serious mental illness who lives, works or receives mental health treatment in Hollywood. The Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health doesn’t run it. In fact, there are no clinicians on staff.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>County mental health leaders partnered with a \u003ca href=\"https://www.fountainhouse.org/about\">storied New York-based nonprofit\u003c/a> to bring the clubhouse to Los Angeles, so their clients could participate. It’s part of an ambitious multilayered pilot project — which seeks to collaborate with community organizations to build an ecosystem of care that goes well beyond conventional clinical treatment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Fountain House Hollywood is just one piece of that project to remake mental health care in the neighborhood, which officials termed “\u003ca href=\"https://www.hollywood4wrd.org/hollywood-2-0\">Hollywood 2.0.\u003c/a>”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hollywood 2.0 architects say intensive intervention by clinical teams, who deliver treatment on the streets and in shelters, is a must for people like Poon, who’ve survived unhoused and untreated for years, often with \u003ca href=\"http://www.samhsa.gov/substance-use/treatment/co-occurring-disorders\">co-occurring addictions\u003c/a>. So is safe and stable housing. But true recovery, they maintain, requires more: a sense of agency, purpose, belonging and joy, in community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Poon, one of Hollywood 2.0’s earliest clients, is thriving. And when it comes to that sense of belonging, she and her care team agree: the clubhouse has been key.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Those who choose to join come on weekdays, set the agenda and commit to one of two work assignments to keep the place running. Poon picked the hospitality team, which does all the shopping, meal planning, cooking and serving.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We respect each other,” she said of her peers. “It’s a family. It’s a community. It’s love.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>A core trauma \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Poon is an elegant dresser who favors rose-tinted glasses that lend her an air of celebrity. She grew up in Albany, Georgia, three hours south of Atlanta. Her mom was born to a Black mother and white father; Her dad was Seminole Indian. “That made me international flavors,” she said, smiling.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Her mother earned four college degrees, but was often absent, Poon said, and alcoholism haunted the family for generations. At age 17, Poon ran away from home with a man she described as a pimp and a dope dealer.[aside postID=news_12075065 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/01/260116-NewsomLuriePresser-32-BL_qed.jpg'] “I didn’t know what sex trafficking meant,” she said. “No one talked about it back then.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He put her on a plane to San Francisco, where she peddled her body and his drugs. In time, she was jailed for selling drugs to an undercover cop. She got out, had a brief relationship, got pregnant, then moved to Los Angeles and was jailed again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I wanted my daughter,” Poon said softly, “so I had her.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At 20 years old, Poon gave birth on May 8, 1980, just before Mother’s Day, in the jail ward of the county hospital. Her little girl, who she named Sabrina, was premature and drug addicted, and went straight to an incubator. Soon after, Poon lost her child to the foster care system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is a trauma, Poon said she revisits every Mother’s Day, every Christmas — practically every day. A few years after her daughter was taken from her, she said she called the county to try to get her back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They said, ‘Oh, she’s been adopted,’” Poon said. “That screwed me up. I was depressed and didn’t even know I was depressed. Didn’t take no medication.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She didn’t know it, but in addition to depression, she was experiencing cycles of mania and psychosis. Early each morning, as years turned to decades, she’d start drinking. She’d argue with shelter roommates and neighbors, she said, disputes she called “misunderstandings.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076576\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_07-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076576\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_07-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_07-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_07-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_07-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mignon Annette Poon leads a morning meeting with the hospitality team at Fountain House Hollywood, also known as “the clubhouse” in Los Angeles, on March 9, 2026. \u003ccite>(Alisha Jucevic/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“I would get places and lose them,” said Poon. “I was homeless.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Her eldest sister, Rosemary Swan, 69, kept track of Poon’s journey whenever she could: a decade or more in Washington D.C., a long stint on the streets of Atlanta, and through Poon’s travels in the Midwest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“For a long time she was like a \u003ca href=\"https://www.nami.org/blog/understanding-dual-diagnosis/\">dual-diagnosis\u003c/a> case,” said Swan, who noted that mental illness, like alcoholism, also runs in the family. “It just went unmanaged.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Every time she spoke to her younger sister, that core trauma came up: the loss of her daughter. So, Swan tried to help Poon find Sabrina.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“For over 25 years, she worried me about it,” Swan said. “I kept telling her, I’m trying, I’m trying. It hurt me that I couldn’t find the child. It’s probably why she went back to California. She never gave up.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>A reunion\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>In 2016, Poon returned to the streets of Los Angeles. Then, in 2018, while staying at a shelter in South Los Angeles, she picked up her cell phone and went down a rabbit hole.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She knew her daughter’s first name and birthdate. A Google search yielded gold, because Sabrina Bradley — her adoptive father’s last name — had a booming \u003ca href=\"https://www.skinbysabrina.com/?srsltid=AfmBOorTkD-tr6DmSKh_JklKwcdqZpILJyuVhp4J6FhOfmwPo95nQJS5\">skin care business\u003c/a> and big \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/sabrinatoday/\">online presence\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12080804\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/MignonSabrinaReuniteOct2018-scaled.jpeg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12080804\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/MignonSabrinaReuniteOct2018-scaled.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"2560\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/MignonSabrinaReuniteOct2018-scaled.jpeg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/MignonSabrinaReuniteOct2018-2000x2667.jpeg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/MignonSabrinaReuniteOct2018-160x213.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/MignonSabrinaReuniteOct2018-1152x1536.jpeg 1152w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/MignonSabrinaReuniteOct2018-1536x2048.jpeg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sabrina Bradley and her birth mother, Mignon Poon, embrace after reuniting in October 2018. Today, with Poon in recovery, they’re bonding. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Sabrina Bradley)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>As a child, Bradley said, she’d tell her dad, “The angels are around me, my mom is near me. And everyone would be, like, ‘there she goes in her fantasy world.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By age 29, while living in Portland, she made a vow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I told myself, I’m going to move [back] to Los Angeles, and I’m going to do two things,” said Bradley, now 45. “Find my mother and create a name for myself in the beauty business.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She achieved her second goal, and on a Sunday in 2018, was praying on the first.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I said God, if you’re real, just give me a sign, just show me that my mom is near me,” Bradley recalled. “I won’t ask for anything else. But if you’re real, please show me. Please show me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That evening, after a schedule packed with clients, her phone rang. The woman on the line asked for “Sabrina, the esthetician.” Bradley assumed she wanted to book a facial. “No,’ the caller responded. “My name’s Mignon Poon. I’m your mom.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bradley went straight to the shelter and brought Poon into her home. But her mother was still using drugs, Bradley said, and her mental illness remained untreated. Police showed up at the house more than once when Poon was having what appeared to be a manic episode, banging on the doors of random neighbors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They’d been together for just three weeks. Then, Bradley put her mom in a cab, and communications between them went dark.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Me and her had a misunderstanding,” said Poon. “I had to go back to the shelter.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As Poon returned to her old life, something was happening in LA County mental health offices and nonprofit community meeting spaces. The project that would come to be known as Hollywood 2.0 was taking shape.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>The right to a whole life\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The seed was planted more than a dozen years ago. The Hollywood neighborhood was benefiting from a burst of investment — hotels, housing and retail. But homelessness was also on the rise. \u003ca href=\"https://www.heartforwardla.org/our-staff\">Kerry Morrison\u003c/a>, who then ran Hollywood’s business improvement district, said she came face to face daily with people “that stayed for months if not years in the same alley or the same bus bench.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Morrison was not a mental health expert, but she was a community leader. She had helped pull together a \u003ca href=\"https://www.hollywood4wrd.org/about\">coalition \u003c/a>of Hollywood homeless service providers and nonprofits, and in 2013, they identified the people outside “most likely to die unless we intervened.” All were living with serious mental illness.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076575\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_05-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076575\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_05-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_05-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_05-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_05-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The meditation room and library at Fountain House Hollywood, also known as “the clubhouse” in Los Angeles, on March 9, 2026. \u003ccite>(Alisha Jucevic/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In 2015, she applied for a fellowship to study one question: “Why is it so hard to help people with serious mental illness move from the streets into a safe place, and who is doing it better?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Her research took her all the way to \u003ca href=\"https://mindsitenews.org/2021/09/29/the-old-asylum-is-gone-today-a-mental-health-system-serves-all/\">Trieste\u003c/a>, Italy, a port city on the Adriatic coast. Trieste had emptied its psychiatric hospital system decades earlier, just like \u003ca href=\"https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7356002/\">California did\u003c/a> starting in the late 1960s. But Trieste shifted instead towards something more holistic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rather than the U.S. top-down approach of “experts” dictating treatment, Morrison said, she witnessed respectful collaboration in Trieste.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They talk more about life plans and life aspirations than diagnoses or symptoms,” she said, “and when you operate with that kind of cultural predisposition, all the edges get softened, trust begins to emerge.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Social collectives provide paid jobs and community connections to those living with serious mental illness. The hospital’s small psychiatric ward was unlocked, not even full, and Morrison saw no one living on the streets with untreated psychosis. The community clinics, where staff and clients share meals, she said, felt “incredibly warm and open and free. You can come anytime to talk to anyone, without an appointment.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076574\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_03-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076574\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_03-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_03-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_03-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_03-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mignon Annette Poon shows off the small store area at Fountain House Hollywood, also known as “the clubhouse” in Los Angeles, on March 9, 2026. \u003ccite>(Alisha Jucevic/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Morrison said she wept as her first visit came to an end.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t know what to do with this,” she told her guide. “I run a business improvement district. No one is ever gonna believe me that you guys are so kind and compassionate.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She was wrong. She cold-called Jonathan Sherin, the then-head of the Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health, and he went all in. In 2017, he and Morrison traveled back to Italy for \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnYydKZzIGM\">a tour and a conference \u003c/a>focused on the importance of nurturing aspirations, relationships and personal fulfillment in those living with mental illness. Joining them was a small group of Los Angeles County leaders, mental health advocates, law enforcement representatives and a judge.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Everybody was gobsmacked,” Morrison said. “And that’s how it started.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The region served by Trieste’s mental health system is home to fewer than 300,000 people, compared to Los Angeles County’s population of nearly 10 million. Italy has socialized medicine. The U.S. does not. And here, with a crisis on the streets, so many public health officials stress that \u003ca href=\"https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00127-020-01849-1\">getting people inside \u003c/a>is paramount.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The small group of travelers knew they had to adapt their approach to those realities, and for a true community solution, they had to concentrate the effort. They settled on Hollywood.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2022, the California Mental Health Oversight and Accountability Commission awarded the county a \u003ca href=\"https://file.lacounty.gov/SDSInter/bos/supdocs/6e2457e0-2310-4564-a15a-e1c249bbbee2.pdf\">grant of nearly $117 million \u003c/a>for a five-year pilot. The goal: to seed a new culture of recovery in the community.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>A crossroads\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>That summer, another “misunderstanding.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Poon was arrested for assaulting a drinking buddy, an elderly neighbor at an East Los Angeles apartment building where she’d finally found herself a place. She was facing felony charges and possible state prison time. From jail, she called Swan, who tapped her life savings to get her sister out on bond.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But once Mignon walked free, she refused contact with the family, Swan said, so she wrote the public defender.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Drug testing, mental health treatment, anything but prison,” she pleaded in a letter, and she begged him to get her sister a diagnosis. “She [has] been needing one for about fifty years, if not sixty,” she said. “I told him!”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Meanwhile, Poon was back on \u003ca href=\"https://homeless.lacounty.gov/skid-row-2/\">Skid Row\u003c/a>. She was feeling the weight of her age, so she made a choice to head to Hollywood, where neighborhood homeless outreach teams regularly “wake you up and ask you, ‘Why you not housed?’” she said. “Then you explain your situation, and they try to help you get into a shelter.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This was her big break. Poon landed at a Hollywood women’s shelter where staff reached out to the Los Angeles County Mental Health Department on her behalf — just as they were layering key pieces of the Hollywood 2.0 pilot into place.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That’s when I got my social worker, therapist and my psychiatrist,” said Poon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Today, as two of her Hollywood 2.0 clinicians put it, Poon’s inner spirit shines through. Dr. Jonathan Gomez, her first psychiatrist under the program, and Eleanor Bray, her current social worker, described her as charismatic, sweet, welcoming and warm, with a dose of sass and a sense of humor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But when Gomez first visited Poon in August of 2023 at the shelter, she struck him as “one of the most symptomatically-distressed people I’ve seen.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Poon believed the neighbor she’d assaulted was part of a conspiracy to electronically monitor her and had implanted a device in her foot, he said. She was so focused on this violation that she could hardly finish a sentence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was like, yeah, let’s look at your foot,” he said. “Let’s also talk about how much of this comes and goes with your sleep pattern and with the substance use.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Poon has a diagnosis now: schizoaffective disorder, bipolar type. Mania from bipolar disorder can cause psychosis. Poon’s diagnosis is schizoaffective because she sometimes experiences psychosis when she\u003cem> isn’t\u003c/em> manic. But what matters more than that diagnostic label is alleviating distress.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076579\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_22-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076579\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_22-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_22-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_22-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_22-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Program director McKenzie Dowdle, left, helps Mignon Annette Poon prepare lunch for members and staff in the kitchen at Fountain House Hollywood, also known as “the clubhouse” in Los Angeles, on March 9, 2026. \u003ccite>(Alisha Jucevic/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The Hollywood 2.0 approach had him visiting her at the shelter once a week. It allowed them to work together to fine-tune her medication regimen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think they help me stay focused, stay positive, stay uplifted,” Poon said of the meds, “helping my thoughts to be clear.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Soon, Poon was ready to move to transitional housing. But she was feeling paranoid about her shelter roommate, Gomez said, and told him she might head back to the streets. With his input, her care team got her into \u003ca href=\"https://homeless.lacounty.gov/news/help-at-a-hollywood-hotel/\">The Mark Twain Hotel\u003c/a>, which had just been repurposed as Hollywood 2.0 transitional housing with intensive onsite support — and single rooms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was there, more than two and a half years ago, that Poon took her last sip of alcohol. Five months later, to her sister’s delight, a judge granted her mental health diversion. If she stayed on course, the felony charges against her would be dismissed. And in September 2024, Mignon’s team helped her move into her very own subsidized apartment.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>“Community will heal us all”\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Getting a client medicated, sober and permanently housed is often considered the pinnacle of success. But after years in survival mode, said Bray, Poon’s social worker, finding oneself alone without all the support of transitional housing programs “can be quite shocking.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Fountain House Hollywood clubhouse had opened its doors on Sunset Boulevard in July of 2024, joining more than 300 others \u003ca href=\"https://clubhouse-intl.org/\">worldwide\u003c/a> that hew to the same philosophy: empowering members to take ownership of their own recovery.[aside postID=news_12074674 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/01/012326_SINGINGHEALTH_GH_011-KQED.jpg'] When Poon moved into her own apartment two months later, Bray encouraged her to check it out, and said it’s been “monumental in her recovery.” There, she said, Poon is making friends, collaborating on a common purpose, learning to follow recipes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Her thoughts still return to memories of that conspiracy to electronically monitor her. In the lexicon of psychiatry, that’s known as a \u003ca href=\"https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/9599-delusional-disorder\">fixed delusion\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To Poon, it’s truth. But she said her medication appears to be helping. Meanwhile, she is embracing the coping mechanisms that she and Bray have worked on together: distraction from the inner life with a focus on the here and now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Something like cooking is very grounding,” Bray said. “You’re very out of your head, you’re very in your body. Plus the aspect of community, I mean, I think community is really the thing that will heal us all.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Final pieces\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>So far, Hollywood 2.0 has moved more than 700 people off the streets, helping to slash the neighborhood’s homelessness by \u003ca href=\"https://www.rand.org/news/press/2025/07/number-of-unhoused-residents-drops-across-three-la.html\">nearly half\u003c/a> in 2024 alone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076580\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_23-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076580\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_23-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_23-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_23-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_23-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Program director McKenzie Dowdle, left, chats with Mignon Annette Poon as they prepare lunch for members and staff in the kitchen at Fountain House Hollywood, also known as “the clubhouse” in Los Angeles, on March 9, 2026. \u003ccite>(Alisha Jucevic/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>There’s job counseling, and a new welcoming clinic for clients well enough to get there on their own. Poon will soon join them. An urgent care drop-in and peer-respite center is scheduled to open later this year, so those in crisis can be stabilized without the trauma of hospitalization.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And this fall, at more than 170 members and counting, Fountain House Hollywood will move to a much larger space.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A final step is now taking shape: persuading Hollywood businesses and residents \u003ca href=\"https://www.hollywood4wrd.org/hollywood-2-0/volunteer\">to take part\u003c/a>, by donating, hiring participants or committing to spend quality time with them by volunteering, leading classes and more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s such a big, big change we’re looking to achieve,” said Morrison, “and that’s why I keep calling it a generational change. This is just the beginning of something.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>A calm life\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081244\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 731px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SabrinaMignonOriginalPhoto.jpeg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12081244\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SabrinaMignonOriginalPhoto.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"731\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SabrinaMignonOriginalPhoto.jpeg 731w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SabrinaMignonOriginalPhoto-160x280.jpeg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 731px) 100vw, 731px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sabrina Bradley and her birth mother, Mignon Poon, attended the clubhouse’s 2024 Thanksgiving celebration. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Sabrina Bradley)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Last month, Poon returned to criminal court for the last time, for dismissal of her charges. Her life is calm, she said, anchored by the clubhouse — and a budding relationship with her daughter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Poon reached out to her daughter again once she was treated and sober.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She likes strawberry milkshakes, so I would take her to Mel’s Diner,” Bradley said of her mother.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Together, they’ve taken two road trips to Las Vegas and are discovering common passions: butterflies, the colors pink — “girly stuff,” Bradley said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Her bathroom and my bathroom are like the same, you know, beauty products all over the place, hair products all over the place.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We still bonding,” said Poon. “We still working on our relationship.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The state grant for the Hollywood 2.0 pilot program runs out next year. And MediCal, which has helped fund the program, is \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12051681/local-health-providers-prepare-for-medi-cal-cuts\">threatened by big federal cuts\u003c/a>. But Los Angeles County mental health leaders said they’ll find ways to keep the successful parts of the project going.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Already, they have plans to open clubhouses in six more neighborhoods. Each, they said, could become a hub for community-based healing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This reporting was supported in part by California Humanities, the California Health Care Foundation and the California Endowment. It’s part of \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"http://novemberinmysoul.com\">\u003cem>November In My Soul\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>, a narrative podcast co-created by Lee Romney and former public defender Jenny Johnson that is slated for release in 2027\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>When Mignon Poon strode into the small clubhouse kitchen \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/los-angeles-county\">in Hollywood\u003c/a> on a morning in late November, a lunch recipe waited on the table: for barbecued chicken, mac and cheese and collard greens.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She pulled on a pair of hygienic gloves and, with Motown vibes wafting from a Bluetooth speaker, got to work with two fellow members of the clubhouse, called \u003ca href=\"https://www.fountainhouse.org/services/hollywood\">Fountain House Hollywood\u003c/a>, chatting and singing along as they cooked.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For Poon, 66, this easy camaraderie was nearly unimaginable just three years ago.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She’d spent decades living with severe, untreated mental illness, bouncing from the streets to homeless shelters. To quiet her mind, she self-medicated with alcohol and, sometimes, hard drugs. It all led to countless nights spent sleeping on the hard ground.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This place right here saved me,” Poon, whose caramel eyes shine with playful mischief, said at the clubhouse, a bustling collective that operates out of a repurposed Sunset Boulevard office space. “Besides get up and start drinking, I get dressed and come here. It gives me something to look forward to.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076577\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_13-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076577\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_13-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_13-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_13-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_13-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mignon Annette Poon is pictured at Fountain House Hollywood, also known as “the clubhouse” in Los Angeles, on March 9, 2026. \u003ccite>(Alisha Jucevic/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The private, nonprofit clubhouse is open to anyone diagnosed with a serious mental illness who lives, works or receives mental health treatment in Hollywood. The Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health doesn’t run it. In fact, there are no clinicians on staff.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>County mental health leaders partnered with a \u003ca href=\"https://www.fountainhouse.org/about\">storied New York-based nonprofit\u003c/a> to bring the clubhouse to Los Angeles, so their clients could participate. It’s part of an ambitious multilayered pilot project — which seeks to collaborate with community organizations to build an ecosystem of care that goes well beyond conventional clinical treatment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Fountain House Hollywood is just one piece of that project to remake mental health care in the neighborhood, which officials termed “\u003ca href=\"https://www.hollywood4wrd.org/hollywood-2-0\">Hollywood 2.0.\u003c/a>”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hollywood 2.0 architects say intensive intervention by clinical teams, who deliver treatment on the streets and in shelters, is a must for people like Poon, who’ve survived unhoused and untreated for years, often with \u003ca href=\"http://www.samhsa.gov/substance-use/treatment/co-occurring-disorders\">co-occurring addictions\u003c/a>. So is safe and stable housing. But true recovery, they maintain, requires more: a sense of agency, purpose, belonging and joy, in community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Poon, one of Hollywood 2.0’s earliest clients, is thriving. And when it comes to that sense of belonging, she and her care team agree: the clubhouse has been key.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Those who choose to join come on weekdays, set the agenda and commit to one of two work assignments to keep the place running. Poon picked the hospitality team, which does all the shopping, meal planning, cooking and serving.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We respect each other,” she said of her peers. “It’s a family. It’s a community. It’s love.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>A core trauma \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Poon is an elegant dresser who favors rose-tinted glasses that lend her an air of celebrity. She grew up in Albany, Georgia, three hours south of Atlanta. Her mom was born to a Black mother and white father; Her dad was Seminole Indian. “That made me international flavors,” she said, smiling.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Her mother earned four college degrees, but was often absent, Poon said, and alcoholism haunted the family for generations. At age 17, Poon ran away from home with a man she described as a pimp and a dope dealer.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp> “I didn’t know what sex trafficking meant,” she said. “No one talked about it back then.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He put her on a plane to San Francisco, where she peddled her body and his drugs. In time, she was jailed for selling drugs to an undercover cop. She got out, had a brief relationship, got pregnant, then moved to Los Angeles and was jailed again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I wanted my daughter,” Poon said softly, “so I had her.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At 20 years old, Poon gave birth on May 8, 1980, just before Mother’s Day, in the jail ward of the county hospital. Her little girl, who she named Sabrina, was premature and drug addicted, and went straight to an incubator. Soon after, Poon lost her child to the foster care system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is a trauma, Poon said she revisits every Mother’s Day, every Christmas — practically every day. A few years after her daughter was taken from her, she said she called the county to try to get her back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They said, ‘Oh, she’s been adopted,’” Poon said. “That screwed me up. I was depressed and didn’t even know I was depressed. Didn’t take no medication.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She didn’t know it, but in addition to depression, she was experiencing cycles of mania and psychosis. Early each morning, as years turned to decades, she’d start drinking. She’d argue with shelter roommates and neighbors, she said, disputes she called “misunderstandings.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076576\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_07-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076576\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_07-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_07-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_07-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_07-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mignon Annette Poon leads a morning meeting with the hospitality team at Fountain House Hollywood, also known as “the clubhouse” in Los Angeles, on March 9, 2026. \u003ccite>(Alisha Jucevic/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“I would get places and lose them,” said Poon. “I was homeless.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Her eldest sister, Rosemary Swan, 69, kept track of Poon’s journey whenever she could: a decade or more in Washington D.C., a long stint on the streets of Atlanta, and through Poon’s travels in the Midwest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“For a long time she was like a \u003ca href=\"https://www.nami.org/blog/understanding-dual-diagnosis/\">dual-diagnosis\u003c/a> case,” said Swan, who noted that mental illness, like alcoholism, also runs in the family. “It just went unmanaged.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Every time she spoke to her younger sister, that core trauma came up: the loss of her daughter. So, Swan tried to help Poon find Sabrina.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“For over 25 years, she worried me about it,” Swan said. “I kept telling her, I’m trying, I’m trying. It hurt me that I couldn’t find the child. It’s probably why she went back to California. She never gave up.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>A reunion\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>In 2016, Poon returned to the streets of Los Angeles. Then, in 2018, while staying at a shelter in South Los Angeles, she picked up her cell phone and went down a rabbit hole.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She knew her daughter’s first name and birthdate. A Google search yielded gold, because Sabrina Bradley — her adoptive father’s last name — had a booming \u003ca href=\"https://www.skinbysabrina.com/?srsltid=AfmBOorTkD-tr6DmSKh_JklKwcdqZpILJyuVhp4J6FhOfmwPo95nQJS5\">skin care business\u003c/a> and big \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/sabrinatoday/\">online presence\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12080804\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/MignonSabrinaReuniteOct2018-scaled.jpeg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12080804\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/MignonSabrinaReuniteOct2018-scaled.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"2560\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/MignonSabrinaReuniteOct2018-scaled.jpeg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/MignonSabrinaReuniteOct2018-2000x2667.jpeg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/MignonSabrinaReuniteOct2018-160x213.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/MignonSabrinaReuniteOct2018-1152x1536.jpeg 1152w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/MignonSabrinaReuniteOct2018-1536x2048.jpeg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sabrina Bradley and her birth mother, Mignon Poon, embrace after reuniting in October 2018. Today, with Poon in recovery, they’re bonding. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Sabrina Bradley)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>As a child, Bradley said, she’d tell her dad, “The angels are around me, my mom is near me. And everyone would be, like, ‘there she goes in her fantasy world.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By age 29, while living in Portland, she made a vow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I told myself, I’m going to move [back] to Los Angeles, and I’m going to do two things,” said Bradley, now 45. “Find my mother and create a name for myself in the beauty business.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She achieved her second goal, and on a Sunday in 2018, was praying on the first.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I said God, if you’re real, just give me a sign, just show me that my mom is near me,” Bradley recalled. “I won’t ask for anything else. But if you’re real, please show me. Please show me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That evening, after a schedule packed with clients, her phone rang. The woman on the line asked for “Sabrina, the esthetician.” Bradley assumed she wanted to book a facial. “No,’ the caller responded. “My name’s Mignon Poon. I’m your mom.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bradley went straight to the shelter and brought Poon into her home. But her mother was still using drugs, Bradley said, and her mental illness remained untreated. Police showed up at the house more than once when Poon was having what appeared to be a manic episode, banging on the doors of random neighbors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They’d been together for just three weeks. Then, Bradley put her mom in a cab, and communications between them went dark.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Me and her had a misunderstanding,” said Poon. “I had to go back to the shelter.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As Poon returned to her old life, something was happening in LA County mental health offices and nonprofit community meeting spaces. The project that would come to be known as Hollywood 2.0 was taking shape.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>The right to a whole life\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The seed was planted more than a dozen years ago. The Hollywood neighborhood was benefiting from a burst of investment — hotels, housing and retail. But homelessness was also on the rise. \u003ca href=\"https://www.heartforwardla.org/our-staff\">Kerry Morrison\u003c/a>, who then ran Hollywood’s business improvement district, said she came face to face daily with people “that stayed for months if not years in the same alley or the same bus bench.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Morrison was not a mental health expert, but she was a community leader. She had helped pull together a \u003ca href=\"https://www.hollywood4wrd.org/about\">coalition \u003c/a>of Hollywood homeless service providers and nonprofits, and in 2013, they identified the people outside “most likely to die unless we intervened.” All were living with serious mental illness.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076575\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_05-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076575\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_05-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_05-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_05-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_05-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The meditation room and library at Fountain House Hollywood, also known as “the clubhouse” in Los Angeles, on March 9, 2026. \u003ccite>(Alisha Jucevic/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In 2015, she applied for a fellowship to study one question: “Why is it so hard to help people with serious mental illness move from the streets into a safe place, and who is doing it better?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Her research took her all the way to \u003ca href=\"https://mindsitenews.org/2021/09/29/the-old-asylum-is-gone-today-a-mental-health-system-serves-all/\">Trieste\u003c/a>, Italy, a port city on the Adriatic coast. Trieste had emptied its psychiatric hospital system decades earlier, just like \u003ca href=\"https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7356002/\">California did\u003c/a> starting in the late 1960s. But Trieste shifted instead towards something more holistic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rather than the U.S. top-down approach of “experts” dictating treatment, Morrison said, she witnessed respectful collaboration in Trieste.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They talk more about life plans and life aspirations than diagnoses or symptoms,” she said, “and when you operate with that kind of cultural predisposition, all the edges get softened, trust begins to emerge.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Social collectives provide paid jobs and community connections to those living with serious mental illness. The hospital’s small psychiatric ward was unlocked, not even full, and Morrison saw no one living on the streets with untreated psychosis. The community clinics, where staff and clients share meals, she said, felt “incredibly warm and open and free. You can come anytime to talk to anyone, without an appointment.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076574\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_03-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076574\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_03-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_03-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_03-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_03-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mignon Annette Poon shows off the small store area at Fountain House Hollywood, also known as “the clubhouse” in Los Angeles, on March 9, 2026. \u003ccite>(Alisha Jucevic/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Morrison said she wept as her first visit came to an end.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t know what to do with this,” she told her guide. “I run a business improvement district. No one is ever gonna believe me that you guys are so kind and compassionate.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She was wrong. She cold-called Jonathan Sherin, the then-head of the Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health, and he went all in. In 2017, he and Morrison traveled back to Italy for \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnYydKZzIGM\">a tour and a conference \u003c/a>focused on the importance of nurturing aspirations, relationships and personal fulfillment in those living with mental illness. Joining them was a small group of Los Angeles County leaders, mental health advocates, law enforcement representatives and a judge.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Everybody was gobsmacked,” Morrison said. “And that’s how it started.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The region served by Trieste’s mental health system is home to fewer than 300,000 people, compared to Los Angeles County’s population of nearly 10 million. Italy has socialized medicine. The U.S. does not. And here, with a crisis on the streets, so many public health officials stress that \u003ca href=\"https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00127-020-01849-1\">getting people inside \u003c/a>is paramount.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The small group of travelers knew they had to adapt their approach to those realities, and for a true community solution, they had to concentrate the effort. They settled on Hollywood.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2022, the California Mental Health Oversight and Accountability Commission awarded the county a \u003ca href=\"https://file.lacounty.gov/SDSInter/bos/supdocs/6e2457e0-2310-4564-a15a-e1c249bbbee2.pdf\">grant of nearly $117 million \u003c/a>for a five-year pilot. The goal: to seed a new culture of recovery in the community.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>A crossroads\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>That summer, another “misunderstanding.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Poon was arrested for assaulting a drinking buddy, an elderly neighbor at an East Los Angeles apartment building where she’d finally found herself a place. She was facing felony charges and possible state prison time. From jail, she called Swan, who tapped her life savings to get her sister out on bond.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But once Mignon walked free, she refused contact with the family, Swan said, so she wrote the public defender.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Drug testing, mental health treatment, anything but prison,” she pleaded in a letter, and she begged him to get her sister a diagnosis. “She [has] been needing one for about fifty years, if not sixty,” she said. “I told him!”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Meanwhile, Poon was back on \u003ca href=\"https://homeless.lacounty.gov/skid-row-2/\">Skid Row\u003c/a>. She was feeling the weight of her age, so she made a choice to head to Hollywood, where neighborhood homeless outreach teams regularly “wake you up and ask you, ‘Why you not housed?’” she said. “Then you explain your situation, and they try to help you get into a shelter.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This was her big break. Poon landed at a Hollywood women’s shelter where staff reached out to the Los Angeles County Mental Health Department on her behalf — just as they were layering key pieces of the Hollywood 2.0 pilot into place.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That’s when I got my social worker, therapist and my psychiatrist,” said Poon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Today, as two of her Hollywood 2.0 clinicians put it, Poon’s inner spirit shines through. Dr. Jonathan Gomez, her first psychiatrist under the program, and Eleanor Bray, her current social worker, described her as charismatic, sweet, welcoming and warm, with a dose of sass and a sense of humor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But when Gomez first visited Poon in August of 2023 at the shelter, she struck him as “one of the most symptomatically-distressed people I’ve seen.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Poon believed the neighbor she’d assaulted was part of a conspiracy to electronically monitor her and had implanted a device in her foot, he said. She was so focused on this violation that she could hardly finish a sentence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I was like, yeah, let’s look at your foot,” he said. “Let’s also talk about how much of this comes and goes with your sleep pattern and with the substance use.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Poon has a diagnosis now: schizoaffective disorder, bipolar type. Mania from bipolar disorder can cause psychosis. Poon’s diagnosis is schizoaffective because she sometimes experiences psychosis when she\u003cem> isn’t\u003c/em> manic. But what matters more than that diagnostic label is alleviating distress.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076579\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_22-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076579\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_22-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_22-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_22-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_22-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Program director McKenzie Dowdle, left, helps Mignon Annette Poon prepare lunch for members and staff in the kitchen at Fountain House Hollywood, also known as “the clubhouse” in Los Angeles, on March 9, 2026. \u003ccite>(Alisha Jucevic/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The Hollywood 2.0 approach had him visiting her at the shelter once a week. It allowed them to work together to fine-tune her medication regimen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think they help me stay focused, stay positive, stay uplifted,” Poon said of the meds, “helping my thoughts to be clear.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Soon, Poon was ready to move to transitional housing. But she was feeling paranoid about her shelter roommate, Gomez said, and told him she might head back to the streets. With his input, her care team got her into \u003ca href=\"https://homeless.lacounty.gov/news/help-at-a-hollywood-hotel/\">The Mark Twain Hotel\u003c/a>, which had just been repurposed as Hollywood 2.0 transitional housing with intensive onsite support — and single rooms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was there, more than two and a half years ago, that Poon took her last sip of alcohol. Five months later, to her sister’s delight, a judge granted her mental health diversion. If she stayed on course, the felony charges against her would be dismissed. And in September 2024, Mignon’s team helped her move into her very own subsidized apartment.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>“Community will heal us all”\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Getting a client medicated, sober and permanently housed is often considered the pinnacle of success. But after years in survival mode, said Bray, Poon’s social worker, finding oneself alone without all the support of transitional housing programs “can be quite shocking.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Fountain House Hollywood clubhouse had opened its doors on Sunset Boulevard in July of 2024, joining more than 300 others \u003ca href=\"https://clubhouse-intl.org/\">worldwide\u003c/a> that hew to the same philosophy: empowering members to take ownership of their own recovery.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp> When Poon moved into her own apartment two months later, Bray encouraged her to check it out, and said it’s been “monumental in her recovery.” There, she said, Poon is making friends, collaborating on a common purpose, learning to follow recipes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Her thoughts still return to memories of that conspiracy to electronically monitor her. In the lexicon of psychiatry, that’s known as a \u003ca href=\"https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/9599-delusional-disorder\">fixed delusion\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To Poon, it’s truth. But she said her medication appears to be helping. Meanwhile, she is embracing the coping mechanisms that she and Bray have worked on together: distraction from the inner life with a focus on the here and now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Something like cooking is very grounding,” Bray said. “You’re very out of your head, you’re very in your body. Plus the aspect of community, I mean, I think community is really the thing that will heal us all.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Final pieces\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>So far, Hollywood 2.0 has moved more than 700 people off the streets, helping to slash the neighborhood’s homelessness by \u003ca href=\"https://www.rand.org/news/press/2025/07/number-of-unhoused-residents-drops-across-three-la.html\">nearly half\u003c/a> in 2024 alone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076580\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_23-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076580\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_23-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_23-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_23-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/20260309_MIGNON_23-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Program director McKenzie Dowdle, left, chats with Mignon Annette Poon as they prepare lunch for members and staff in the kitchen at Fountain House Hollywood, also known as “the clubhouse” in Los Angeles, on March 9, 2026. \u003ccite>(Alisha Jucevic/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>There’s job counseling, and a new welcoming clinic for clients well enough to get there on their own. Poon will soon join them. An urgent care drop-in and peer-respite center is scheduled to open later this year, so those in crisis can be stabilized without the trauma of hospitalization.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And this fall, at more than 170 members and counting, Fountain House Hollywood will move to a much larger space.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A final step is now taking shape: persuading Hollywood businesses and residents \u003ca href=\"https://www.hollywood4wrd.org/hollywood-2-0/volunteer\">to take part\u003c/a>, by donating, hiring participants or committing to spend quality time with them by volunteering, leading classes and more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s such a big, big change we’re looking to achieve,” said Morrison, “and that’s why I keep calling it a generational change. This is just the beginning of something.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>A calm life\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081244\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 731px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SabrinaMignonOriginalPhoto.jpeg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12081244\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SabrinaMignonOriginalPhoto.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"731\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SabrinaMignonOriginalPhoto.jpeg 731w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SabrinaMignonOriginalPhoto-160x280.jpeg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 731px) 100vw, 731px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sabrina Bradley and her birth mother, Mignon Poon, attended the clubhouse’s 2024 Thanksgiving celebration. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Sabrina Bradley)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Last month, Poon returned to criminal court for the last time, for dismissal of her charges. Her life is calm, she said, anchored by the clubhouse — and a budding relationship with her daughter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Poon reached out to her daughter again once she was treated and sober.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She likes strawberry milkshakes, so I would take her to Mel’s Diner,” Bradley said of her mother.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Together, they’ve taken two road trips to Las Vegas and are discovering common passions: butterflies, the colors pink — “girly stuff,” Bradley said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Her bathroom and my bathroom are like the same, you know, beauty products all over the place, hair products all over the place.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We still bonding,” said Poon. “We still working on our relationship.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The state grant for the Hollywood 2.0 pilot program runs out next year. And MediCal, which has helped fund the program, is \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12051681/local-health-providers-prepare-for-medi-cal-cuts\">threatened by big federal cuts\u003c/a>. But Los Angeles County mental health leaders said they’ll find ways to keep the successful parts of the project going.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Already, they have plans to open clubhouses in six more neighborhoods. Each, they said, could become a hub for community-based healing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This reporting was supported in part by California Humanities, the California Health Care Foundation and the California Endowment. It’s part of \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"http://novemberinmysoul.com\">\u003cem>November In My Soul\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>, a narrative podcast co-created by Lee Romney and former public defender Jenny Johnson that is slated for release in 2027\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
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"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game – and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
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"marketplace": {
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"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
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"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
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"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
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"info": "Our weekly podcast explores how the media 'sausage' is made, casts an incisive eye on fluctuations in the marketplace of ideas, and examines threats to the freedom of information and expression in America and abroad. For one hour a week, the show tries to lift the veil from the process of \"making media,\" especially news media, because it's through that lens that we see the world and the world sees us",
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"politicalbreakdown": {
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"title": "Political Breakdown",
"tagline": "Politics from a personal perspective",
"info": "Political Breakdown is a new series that explores the political intersection of California and the nation. Each week hosts Scott Shafer and Marisa Lagos are joined with a new special guest to unpack politics -- with personality — and offer an insider’s glimpse at how politics happens.",
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"possible": {
"id": "possible",
"title": "Possible",
"info": "Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? Each episode also includes a short fiction story generated by advanced AI GPT-4, serving as a thought-provoking springboard to speculate how humanity could leverage technology for good.",
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"pri-the-world": {
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"title": "PRI's The World: Latest Edition",
"info": "Each weekday, host Marco Werman and his team of producers bring you the world's most interesting stories in an hour of radio that reminds us just how small our planet really is.",
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"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-World-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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"radiolab": {
"id": "radiolab",
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"info": "A two-time Peabody Award-winner, Radiolab is an investigation told through sounds and stories, and centered around one big idea. In the Radiolab world, information sounds like music and science and culture collide. Hosted by Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich, the show is designed for listeners who demand skepticism, but appreciate wonder. WNYC Studios is the producer of other leading podcasts including Freakonomics Radio, Death, Sex & Money, On the Media and many more.",
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"reveal": {
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"info": "Created by The Center for Investigative Reporting and PRX, Reveal is public radios first one-hour weekly radio show and podcast dedicated to investigative reporting. Credible, fact based and without a partisan agenda, Reveal combines the power and artistry of driveway moment storytelling with data-rich reporting on critically important issues. The result is stories that inform and inspire, arming our listeners with information to right injustices, hold the powerful accountable and improve lives.Reveal is hosted by Al Letson and showcases the award-winning work of CIR and newsrooms large and small across the nation. In a radio and podcast market crowded with choices, Reveal focuses on important and often surprising stories that illuminate the world for our listeners.",
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},
"rightnowish": {
"id": "rightnowish",
"title": "Rightnowish",
"tagline": "Art is where you find it",
"info": "Rightnowish digs into life in the Bay Area right now… ish. Journalist Pendarvis Harshaw takes us to galleries painted on the sides of liquor stores in West Oakland. We'll dance in warehouses in the Bayview, make smoothies with kids in South Berkeley, and listen to classical music in a 1984 Cutlass Supreme in Richmond. Every week, Pen talks to movers and shakers about how the Bay Area shapes what they create, and how they shape the place we call home.",
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"order": 16
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},
"science-friday": {
"id": "science-friday",
"title": "Science Friday",
"info": "Science Friday is a weekly science talk show, broadcast live over public radio stations nationwide. Each week, the show focuses on science topics that are in the news and tries to bring an educated, balanced discussion to bear on the scientific issues at hand. Panels of expert guests join host Ira Flatow, a veteran science journalist, to discuss science and to take questions from listeners during the call-in portion of the program.",
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"snap-judgment": {
"id": "snap-judgment",
"title": "Snap Judgment",
"tagline": "Real stories with killer beats",
"info": "The Snap Judgment radio show and podcast mixes real stories with killer beats to produce cinematic, dramatic radio. Snap's musical brand of storytelling dares listeners to see the world through the eyes of another. This is storytelling... with a BEAT!! Snap first aired on public radio stations nationwide in July 2010. Today, Snap Judgment airs on over 450 public radio stations and is brought to the airwaves by KQED & PRX.",
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