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"title": "Real Estate, Climate and Wild Parties? Here’s How Anthropic’s IPO Could Affect the Bay Area",
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"content": "\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Living in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/bay-area\">Bay Area\u003c/a> can feel like living in a different economy from the rest of the U.S. — even a different world. Whether you’re buying a coffee or renting an apartment, prices inevitably get pegged to tech workers, many of whom make inconceivable amounts of money.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And soon, the Bay Area could pull even further away from the rest of the country now that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12106384/ai-giant-anthropic-files-for-an-ipo-that-could-break-records\">Anthropic\u003c/a>, one of the AI giants, has filed its initial public offering paperwork with the Securities and Exchange Commission and could begin trading as soon as November. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The filing comes weeks after the company’s CEO, Dario Amodei, argued in an \u003ca href=\"https://darioamodei.com/essay/the-adolescence-of-technology\">essay\u003c/a> for the slowdown of the development of AI models, acknowledging the risks associated with the “powerful” emergent technology are “serious.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The IPO would give the company “enormous resources to accelerate its expansion,” \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/anthropic-ipo-shares-public-ca2f4c282bef3201a392e59e3df2300c\">\u003cem>the Associated Press\u003c/em>\u003c/a> said, and would turn the startup into one of the world’s most valuable companies, even at lower estimates.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>The IPO and the Bay \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Once the company goes public, Anthropic employees and investors can begin selling their shares, turning their hitherto-hypothetical millions into cold hard cash. (That exact timing, however, will depend on a shareholder’s individual \u003ca href=\"https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lockup-period.asp\">“lock-up”\u003c/a> schedule.)\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The Bay Area is no stranger to technological \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11655090/how-californias-gold-rush-forged-the-path-for-todays-tech-innovators\">“Gold Rushes.”\u003c/a> But Anthropic’s imminent IPO could blow them all out of the water, with reports estimating a valuation as high as \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/10/26/nx-s1-6014772/anthropic-ai-ipo-could-break-records\">$2 trillion\u003c/a>. And speculation has already begun about the impact this kind of cash could have on the Bay Area. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In July, \u003ca href=\"https://www.redfin.com/news/openai-anthropic-housing-wealth/\">Redfin\u003c/a> estimated that the current and former employees of Anthropic — and fellow AI company OpenAI, which \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/09/12/nx-s1-5950588/openai-anthropic-ai-safety-researchers-hacks\">delayed\u003c/a> its own IPO to 2027 — could hypothetically make enough from their respective IPOs to buy up a third of the total homes in San Francisco. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"857\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/Houses_in_San_Francisco_qed-1adc92e1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107213\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/Houses_in_San_Francisco_qed-1adc92e1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/Houses_in_San_Francisco_qed-1adc92e1-160x69.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/Houses_in_San_Francisco_qed-1adc92e1-1536x658.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A row of homes on Capp Street, between 22nd and 23rd Streets, in San Francisco’s Mission District. (Courtesy of Wikimedia Commons)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But economists are skeptical the offering will bring widespread change. Ted Egan, the city of San Francisco’s chief economist, said that the impact of Anthropic’s IPO on San Francisco’s budget will be “modest” at best. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“While it could potentially be a lot of money, I’m not sure it will be particularly noticeable to everybody in the city,” Egan said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Here’s what we know about how the coming Anthropic IPO could affect you in the Bay Area. Spoiler: Many of its impacts on those of us in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/30/opinion/ai-labor-work-force-silicon-valley.html\">“permanent underclass”\u003c/a> are already here. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Housing prices could keep rising\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Who will be most affected: Anyone trying to buy a house, afford rent, or move in San Francisco. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/housing\">Real estate and rental prices\u003c/a> increased \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12095536/after-the-18000-scam-how-can-bay-area-renters-protect-themselves\">dramatically\u003c/a> over the summer, thanks to a booming AI economy. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Redfin’s latest \u003ca href=\"https://www.redfin.com/cost-of-living-calculator/san-francisco-ca\">data\u003c/a> shows that the average price to buy a home in San Francisco is about $1.7 million dollars and the average rental is about $4,000 — 161% more than the national average.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">With prices already high, news of Anthropic’s IPO sparked \u003ca href=\"https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1whm8cg/future_of_sf_housing/\">fear\u003c/a> in both renters and buyers — with one \u003ca href=\"https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1xfzic9/anthropic_files_for_ipo_setting_the_stage_for_a/\">Reddit\u003c/a> user harkening back to a 2007 article from \u003ca href=\"https://theonion.com/report-nations-gentrified-neighborhoods-threatened-by-1819569723/\">\u003cem>The Onion\u003c/em>\u003c/a> titled “Nation’s Gentrified Neighborhoods Threatened By Aristocratization.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1438\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1236193788-a3ffbc0d-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107215\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1236193788-a3ffbc0d-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1236193788-a3ffbc0d-2000x1124.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1236193788-a3ffbc0d-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1236193788-a3ffbc0d-1536x863.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1236193788-a3ffbc0d-2048x1151.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1236193788-a3ffbc0d-1200x675.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">An aerial view shows a newly unveiled logo for “Meta”, the new name for Facebook’s parent company, in front of Facebook headquarters in Menlo Park on Oct. 28, 2021. – Facebook changed its parent company name to “Meta” on Oct. 28 as the tech giant tries to move past being a scandal-plagued social network to its virtual reality vision for the future. (NOAH BERGER/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And understandably so, given the ghosts of IPOs past. A 2019 Zillow \u003ca href=\"https://www.zillow.com/research/facebook-ipo-home-values/\">report\u003c/a> found that after Facebook went public with a $104 billion valuation, home values near the company’s Menlo Park headquarters climbed at a higher rate than other parts of the Bay Area real estate market — 21% compared to 17%. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But UC Berkeley economics professor Enrico Moretti said this particular IPO might not cause prices to increase much more than they already have — because of the limited number of people who live in the city \u003cem>and\u003c/em> work at Anthropic. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“The demand for housing will increase by a few thousand units,” Moretti said. Anthropic has 5,300 employees globally as of Sept. 30, according to its SEC filing, but Moretti said that not all of the employees and investors who will profit are based in San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/260317-BeautifulBuildings-05-BL_qed-17647b3c.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107222\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/260317-BeautifulBuildings-05-BL_qed-17647b3c.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/260317-BeautifulBuildings-05-BL_qed-17647b3c-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/260317-BeautifulBuildings-05-BL_qed-17647b3c-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A house on California Street in the Pacific Heights neighborhood of San Francisco on March 17, 2026. (Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">While newly wealthy shareholders may not push up prices across the city, they could still drive up prices in specific neighborhoods near Anthropic and OpenAI’s headquarters, said Karen Chapple, a professor emerita at UC Berkeley focused on economic development and housing. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">These areas include Mission-Potrero, South of Market, Pacific Heights, Hayes Valley and potentially downtown, Chapple said. “People really want to get to work within 15 minutes,” she said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Something else that might contribute to rising prices is the city’s ongoing shortage of available units. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“The Bay Area economy is between a rock and a hard place,” said Christopher Thornberg, a founding partner of research and consulting firm Beacon Economics. “The rock is this AI funding that’s pouring in; the hard place is the lack of housing.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>More money, more jobs and bigger ice cream cones \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Who will be most impacted: Service industry employees, AI-adjacent industries and artisans. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When it comes to the economy, more money usually means more jobs — usually. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Moretti said a single new tech job typically creates four to five additional jobs outside the tech sector. That’s because “every time that a new tech job is created in a metro area, that income is spent, in part, in the local economy,” Moretti said, listing everything from retail and restaurants to healthcare, education and architecture. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But while \u003ca href=\"https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-financial-and-quantitative-analysis/article/local-economic-spillover-effects-of-stock-market-listings/E61E5EA26F8FEF5D5A9CBC8477493A6C\">research\u003c/a> has linked previous IPOs to significant job creation, Moretti said that this particular Anthropic IPO may produce fewer new jobs. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-2294539418-a86fe375-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107266\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-2294539418-a86fe375-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-2294539418-a86fe375-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-2294539418-a86fe375-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-2294539418-a86fe375-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-2294539418-a86fe375-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Entrance to Foundry Square IV, headquarters of artificial intelligence company Anthropic, in the South of Market neighborhood, San Francisco, California, United States, Sept. 9, 2026. (Smith Collection/Gado via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That’s because companies have historically used IPOs to help them raise new capital and expand their operations — but that may not be the case for Anthropic. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It had plenty of capital. In fact, there were people banging on its door to provide capital,” Moretti said, adding that the AI industry as a whole has not been “capital-constrained.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Without major employment growth from Anthropic itself, there will be fewer new employees to spend money in the Bay Area and, subsequently, fewer new jobs in complementary industries, he said. “There’s only so much that you can spend locally,” Moretti said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">One sector that’s already seen an increase in local spending — and could see more as IPO wealth floods in? Elaborate, in-person events. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Vivienne Errington-Barnes, founder of [Shift + Alt], a company that produces everything from corporate retreats to birthday parties for individuals and companies in the tech sector, said that “there is a direct correlation between AI becoming more prolific and people wanting more in-person events.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-3 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" data-id=\"12107210\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261029-Anthropic-IPO-02-KQED-5ac416d1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107210\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261029-Anthropic-IPO-02-KQED-5ac416d1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261029-Anthropic-IPO-02-KQED-5ac416d1-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261029-Anthropic-IPO-02-KQED-5ac416d1-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Shift+Alt planned a lavish event for luxury wine group Osiris Club. (Courtesy of Shift + Alt Events)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" data-id=\"12107212\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261029-Anthropic-IPO-04-KQED-8df42784.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107212\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261029-Anthropic-IPO-04-KQED-8df42784.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261029-Anthropic-IPO-04-KQED-8df42784-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261029-Anthropic-IPO-04-KQED-8df42784-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Shift + Alt founder Vivienne Errington-Barnes said “human” experiences are becoming more coveted in the age of AI. (Courtesy of Shift + Alt Events)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“There’s a lot of weird and wonderful things coming up, like people who are fabricating life-size ice cream cones,” Errington-Barnes said. “They want to be remembered.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">People don’t just want more events; they want their events to be high-touch, high-impact and exceptionally human, Errington-Barnes said, describing a shift from DJs to live music and from light projections to physical performances and elaborate installations.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“We want the chef to come out and make a speech about how he made this Michelin star dish and what his story is. We want to get a human-interest kind of angle,” Errington-Barnes said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>IPOs could boost the industry of love\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Who will be most impacted: Wedding planners, divorce lawyers and the couples they serve. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Another business that could see a local bump? Marriages and divorces.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">A 2012 \u003ca href=\"https://www.ft.com/content/433af3b0-a082-11e1-88e6-00144feabdc0\">Financial Times\u003c/a> article tracked the trend leading up to Facebook’s IPO, and found that wedding planners and wealth managers were gearing up to court newly-minted millionaires. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260403-SFLibraryWeddings-03-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12078843\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260403-SFLibraryWeddings-03-BL_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260403-SFLibraryWeddings-03-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260403-SFLibraryWeddings-03-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A couple poses for photos in the San Francisco Public Library Main Library on April 3, 2026, before their wedding ceremony. The library hosted a limited series of weddings during its 30th anniversary celebration, offering couples a chance to marry in a unique civic space. (Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Divorce lawyers, too, could see an influx of clients, said Haitham Amin, a San Francisco attorney and founding partner of Amin Law. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The attorney said 90% of his clients are in the tech industry, and forecasted a wide number of possibilities based on his experiences following the Facebook IPO and the rise of Nvidia. A boon can make or break some relationships, he said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“There’s going to be a good chunk of people that are going to realize that big money comes with a lot of problems — usually marital problems,” Amin said. “People just change when they get a lot of money.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Billionaire altruists could donate wealth\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Who will be the most impacted: Anyone the effective altruists deem worthy. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As newly wealthy tech employees search for meaning and connection, they may start donating more to Bay Area charities … potentially. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">After working with dot-com millionaires in the 1990s, psychologists Stephen Goldbart and Joan DiFuria coined the term \u003ca href=\"https://www.mmcinstitute.com/?page_id=15\">“sudden wealth syndrome”\u003c/a> — aimed at capturing how people can face issues finding meaning and purpose after coming into a shocking amount of money and can become isolated from friends and family. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“We’re seeing what we call billionaire bubbles,” DiFuria told KQED. “These gated communities are getting deeper and thicker, because the money is higher.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Some newly-minted millionaires retreat from society, DiFuria said. But others might decide to invest their money into their local communities. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“If you’re richer and you decide to donate, history tells us that a share of that will go to local charities,” Moretti said. “I think this is an area where there’s probably going to be a significant effect.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Berber Jin, AI enterprise reporter for \u003cem>The Wall Street Journal\u003c/em>, told KQED’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101915855/what-an-anthropic-ipo-could-mean-for-the-bay-area\">Forum\u003c/a> on Wednesday that early Anthropic employees have pledged up to half of their wealth to philanthropic causes. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">While wealthy philanthropists have historically donated to arts, culture and local nonprofits, the company has strong \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/09/26/nx-s1-5979085/the-ai-safety-debate-is-confusing-heres-our-guide-to-the-different-factions\">ties\u003c/a> to the effective altruism movement — a philosophy followed by some in the tech industry that purports to use rational thought to do the most long-term good possible. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The movement drew criticism after one of its most vocal proponents, crypto exchange founder \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2022/12/09/1141820351/can-billionaires-save-the-world-some-are-skeptical\">Sam Bankman-Fried\u003c/a>, was sentenced to 25 years in prison for fraud and money laundering. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2341\" height=\"1559\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1556770481-75ef1d7e.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107237\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1556770481-75ef1d7e.jpg 2341w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1556770481-75ef1d7e-2000x1332.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1556770481-75ef1d7e-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1556770481-75ef1d7e-1536x1023.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1556770481-75ef1d7e-2048x1364.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2341px) 100vw, 2341px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Former FTX chief Sam Bankman-Fried leaves the Federal Courthouse following a bail hearing ahead of his October trial, in New York City on July 26, 2023. (ANGELA WEISS/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Jin said the enduring popularity of the movement among Anthropic’s earliest hires will likely impact how they spend their money. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Because effective altruism is so ingrained in their worldviews, the chatter right now amongst early employees is like we should donate this money to fund AI safety nonprofits,” Jin said. Effective altruists often focus on \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/201504091000/poor-kids-vs-batkid-ethicist-peter-singer-on-how-to-choose-a-charitable-cause\">global causes\u003c/a> including animal welfare and public health. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In addition to spending more on philanthropy, Anthropic employees could continue to ramp up their political donations — they’ve already been spending big on AI-safety PACs, according to \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/dario-amodei-donation-22348647.php\">\u003cem>SFGate\u003c/em>\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Climate change and environmental concerns \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Who will be the most impacted: Climate tech, nonprofits and environmental advocates. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">AI’s impact on our environment is a hot topic — pun intended. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Many groups have called attention to data centers’ staggering energy and water usage — which can lead to increased emissions and disrupt local water supplies and ecosystems, according to \u003ca href=\"https://news.mit.edu/2025/explained-generative-ai-environmental-impact-0117\">\u003cem>MIT News\u003c/em>\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Other \u003ca href=\"https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/can-ais-climate-benefits-outweigh-its-costs\">research\u003c/a> has also linked AI’s climate impact to the emissions associated with increasing production and economic growth. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Wealth itself is often \u003ca href=\"https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/richest-1-emit-much-planet-heating-pollution-two-thirds-humanity\">linked\u003c/a> to pollution, especially when it’s spent on fossil-fuel-intensive goods and services like driving, flying and eating red meat, just to name a few.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/09/260828-SOUTH-BAY-DATA-CENTERS-MD-07-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12098431\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/09/260828-SOUTH-BAY-DATA-CENTERS-MD-07-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/09/260828-SOUTH-BAY-DATA-CENTERS-MD-07-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/09/260828-SOUTH-BAY-DATA-CENTERS-MD-07-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Buildings in the Alviso neighborhood of San José that Google plans to modify to operate in a capacity similar to a data center on Sept. 3, 2026. (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But on an individual level, “someone becoming a multimillionaire overnight does not suddenly mean that they are generating more emissions,” said Ben Gould, president of EcoDataLab, a firm that calculates consumer emissions for cities and counties.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“If anything, I would actually expect the IPO to have beneficial local climate impacts,” Gould told KQED by email. “Anthropic’s employees are probably more climate-conscious than average, and coming into a large amount of liquidity could help enable them to invest in low-emission technologies for their homes and lifestyles, like solar panels, heat pumps and EVs.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">His colleague Christopher Jones, director of UC Berkeley’s CoolClimate Network, a group aimed at scaling up climate solutions, suggested that the development of AI has the potential — like the advent of personal computers — to enable the spread of low-carbon technologies. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"> “The largest environmental impacts of AI will not be from the water or energy demand of server farms, or the wealth generated for shareholders or employees,” Jones said, “but rather how AI will be used to change the ways humans live on the planet.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That is, if it doesn’t \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/09/13/nx-s1-5966638/could-ai-kill-us-all-professor-weighs-in-on-former-anthropic-employees-claim\">kill us\u003c/a> all first. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>KQED’s\u003c/em> \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/dventon\">\u003cem>Danielle Venton\u003c/em>\u003c/a> \u003cem>and\u003c/em> \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/emanoukian\">\u003cem>Elize Manoukian\u003c/em>\u003c/a> \u003cem>contributed to this report.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Living in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/bay-area\">Bay Area\u003c/a> can feel like living in a different economy from the rest of the U.S. — even a different world. Whether you’re buying a coffee or renting an apartment, prices inevitably get pegged to tech workers, many of whom make inconceivable amounts of money.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Living in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/bay-area\">Bay Area\u003c/a> can feel like living in a different economy from the rest of the U.S. — even a different world. Whether you’re buying a coffee or renting an apartment, prices inevitably get pegged to tech workers, many of whom make inconceivable amounts of money.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>And soon, the Bay Area could pull even further away from the rest of the country now that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12106384/ai-giant-anthropic-files-for-an-ipo-that-could-break-records\">Anthropic\u003c/a>, one of the AI giants, has filed its initial public offering paperwork with the Securities and Exchange Commission and could begin trading as soon as November. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>And soon, the Bay Area could pull even further away from the rest of the country now that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12106384/ai-giant-anthropic-files-for-an-ipo-that-could-break-records\">Anthropic\u003c/a>, one of the AI giants, has filed its initial public offering paperwork with the Securities and Exchange Commission and could begin trading as soon as November. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The filing comes weeks after the company’s CEO, Dario Amodei, argued in an \u003ca href=\"https://darioamodei.com/essay/the-adolescence-of-technology\">essay\u003c/a> for the slowdown of the development of AI models, acknowledging the risks associated with the “powerful” emergent technology are “serious.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The filing comes weeks after the company’s CEO, Dario Amodei, argued in an \u003ca href=\"https://darioamodei.com/essay/the-adolescence-of-technology\">essay\u003c/a> for the slowdown of the development of AI models, acknowledging the risks associated with the “powerful” emergent technology are “serious.” \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The IPO would give the company “enormous resources to accelerate its expansion,” \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/anthropic-ipo-shares-public-ca2f4c282bef3201a392e59e3df2300c\">\u003cem>the Associated Press\u003c/em>\u003c/a> said, and would turn the startup into one of the world’s most valuable companies, even at lower estimates.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The IPO would give the company “enormous resources to accelerate its expansion,” \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/anthropic-ipo-shares-public-ca2f4c282bef3201a392e59e3df2300c\">\u003cem>the Associated Press\u003c/em>\u003c/a> said, and would turn the startup into one of the world’s most valuable companies, even at lower estimates.\u003c/p>\n"
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"text": "The IPO and the Bay ",
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"\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>The IPO and the Bay \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Once the company goes public, Anthropic employees and investors can begin selling their shares, turning their hitherto-hypothetical millions into cold hard cash. (That exact timing, however, will depend on a shareholder’s individual \u003ca href=\"https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lockup-period.asp\">“lock-up”\u003c/a> schedule.)\u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>Once the company goes public, Anthropic employees and investors can begin selling their shares, turning their hitherto-hypothetical millions into cold hard cash. (That exact timing, however, will depend on a shareholder’s individual \u003ca href=\"https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lockup-period.asp\">“lock-up”\u003c/a> schedule.)\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The Bay Area is no stranger to technological \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11655090/how-californias-gold-rush-forged-the-path-for-todays-tech-innovators\">“Gold Rushes.”\u003c/a> But Anthropic’s imminent IPO could blow them all out of the water, with reports estimating a valuation as high as \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/10/26/nx-s1-6014772/anthropic-ai-ipo-could-break-records\">$2 trillion\u003c/a>. And speculation has already begun about the impact this kind of cash could have on the Bay Area. \u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>The Bay Area is no stranger to technological \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11655090/how-californias-gold-rush-forged-the-path-for-todays-tech-innovators\">“Gold Rushes.”\u003c/a> But Anthropic’s imminent IPO could blow them all out of the water, with reports estimating a valuation as high as \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/10/26/nx-s1-6014772/anthropic-ai-ipo-could-break-records\">$2 trillion\u003c/a>. And speculation has already begun about the impact this kind of cash could have on the Bay Area. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In July, \u003ca href=\"https://www.redfin.com/news/openai-anthropic-housing-wealth/\">Redfin\u003c/a> estimated that the current and former employees of Anthropic — and fellow AI company OpenAI, which \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/09/12/nx-s1-5950588/openai-anthropic-ai-safety-researchers-hacks\">delayed\u003c/a> its own IPO to 2027 — could hypothetically make enough from their respective IPOs to buy up a third of the total homes in San Francisco. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>In July, \u003ca href=\"https://www.redfin.com/news/openai-anthropic-housing-wealth/\">Redfin\u003c/a> estimated that the current and former employees of Anthropic — and fellow AI company OpenAI, which \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/09/12/nx-s1-5950588/openai-anthropic-ai-safety-researchers-hacks\">delayed\u003c/a> its own IPO to 2027 — could hypothetically make enough from their respective IPOs to buy up a third of the total homes in San Francisco. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/Houses_in_San_Francisco_qed-1adc92e1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107213\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/Houses_in_San_Francisco_qed-1adc92e1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/Houses_in_San_Francisco_qed-1adc92e1-160x69.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/Houses_in_San_Francisco_qed-1adc92e1-1536x658.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A row of homes on Capp Street, between 22nd and 23rd Streets, in San Francisco’s Mission District.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Courtesy of Wikimedia Commons)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/Houses_in_San_Francisco_qed-1adc92e1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107213\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A row of homes on Capp Street, between 22nd and 23rd Streets, in San Francisco’s Mission District.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Courtesy of Wikimedia Commons)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>But economists are skeptical the offering will bring widespread change. Ted Egan, the city of San Francisco’s chief economist, said that the impact of Anthropic’s IPO on San Francisco’s budget will be “modest” at best. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>But economists are skeptical the offering will bring widespread change. Ted Egan, the city of San Francisco’s chief economist, said that the impact of Anthropic’s IPO on San Francisco’s budget will be “modest” at best. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“While it could potentially be a lot of money, I’m not sure it will be particularly noticeable to everybody in the city,” Egan said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“While it could potentially be a lot of money, I’m not sure it will be particularly noticeable to everybody in the city,” Egan said. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Here’s what we know about how the coming Anthropic IPO could affect you in the Bay Area. Spoiler: Many of its impacts on those of us in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/30/opinion/ai-labor-work-force-silicon-valley.html\">“permanent underclass”\u003c/a> are already here. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Here’s what we know about how the coming Anthropic IPO could affect you in the Bay Area. Spoiler: Many of its impacts on those of us in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/30/opinion/ai-labor-work-force-silicon-valley.html\">“permanent underclass”\u003c/a> are already here. \u003c/p>\n"
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"attrs": {
"text": "Housing prices could keep rising",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Housing prices could keep rising\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n",
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"\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Housing prices could keep rising\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Who will be most affected: Anyone trying to buy a house, afford rent, or move in San Francisco. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Who will be most affected: Anyone trying to buy a house, afford rent, or move in San Francisco. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/housing\">Real estate and rental prices\u003c/a> increased \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12095536/after-the-18000-scam-how-can-bay-area-renters-protect-themselves\">dramatically\u003c/a> over the summer, thanks to a booming AI economy. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/housing\">Real estate and rental prices\u003c/a> increased \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12095536/after-the-18000-scam-how-can-bay-area-renters-protect-themselves\">dramatically\u003c/a> over the summer, thanks to a booming AI economy. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Redfin’s latest \u003ca href=\"https://www.redfin.com/cost-of-living-calculator/san-francisco-ca\">data\u003c/a> shows that the average price to buy a home in San Francisco is about $1.7 million dollars and the average rental is about $4,000 — 161% more than the national average.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Redfin’s latest \u003ca href=\"https://www.redfin.com/cost-of-living-calculator/san-francisco-ca\">data\u003c/a> shows that the average price to buy a home in San Francisco is about $1.7 million dollars and the average rental is about $4,000 — 161% more than the national average.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>With prices already high, news of Anthropic’s IPO sparked \u003ca href=\"https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1whm8cg/future_of_sf_housing/\">fear\u003c/a> in both renters and buyers — with one \u003ca href=\"https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1xfzic9/anthropic_files_for_ipo_setting_the_stage_for_a/\">Reddit\u003c/a> user harkening back to a 2007 article from \u003ca href=\"https://theonion.com/report-nations-gentrified-neighborhoods-threatened-by-1819569723/\">\u003cem>The Onion\u003c/em>\u003c/a> titled “Nation’s Gentrified Neighborhoods Threatened By Aristocratization.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>With prices already high, news of Anthropic’s IPO sparked \u003ca href=\"https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1whm8cg/future_of_sf_housing/\">fear\u003c/a> in both renters and buyers — with one \u003ca href=\"https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1xfzic9/anthropic_files_for_ipo_setting_the_stage_for_a/\">Reddit\u003c/a> user harkening back to a 2007 article from \u003ca href=\"https://theonion.com/report-nations-gentrified-neighborhoods-threatened-by-1819569723/\">\u003cem>The Onion\u003c/em>\u003c/a> titled “Nation’s Gentrified Neighborhoods Threatened By Aristocratization.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1236193788-a3ffbc0d-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107215\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1236193788-a3ffbc0d-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1236193788-a3ffbc0d-2000x1124.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1236193788-a3ffbc0d-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1236193788-a3ffbc0d-1536x863.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1236193788-a3ffbc0d-2048x1151.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1236193788-a3ffbc0d-1200x675.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">An aerial view shows a newly unveiled logo for “Meta”, the new name for Facebook’s parent company, in front of Facebook headquarters in Menlo Park on Oct. 28, 2021. – Facebook changed its parent company name to “Meta” on Oct. 28 as the tech giant tries to move past being a scandal-plagued social network to its virtual reality vision for the future.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (NOAH BERGER/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1236193788-a3ffbc0d-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107215\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">An aerial view shows a newly unveiled logo for “Meta”, the new name for Facebook’s parent company, in front of Facebook headquarters in Menlo Park on Oct. 28, 2021. – Facebook changed its parent company name to “Meta” on Oct. 28 as the tech giant tries to move past being a scandal-plagued social network to its virtual reality vision for the future.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (NOAH BERGER/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>And understandably so, given the ghosts of IPOs past. A 2019 Zillow \u003ca href=\"https://www.zillow.com/research/facebook-ipo-home-values/\">report\u003c/a> found that after Facebook went public with a $104 billion valuation, home values near the company’s Menlo Park headquarters climbed at a higher rate than other parts of the Bay Area real estate market — 21% compared to 17%. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>And understandably so, given the ghosts of IPOs past. A 2019 Zillow \u003ca href=\"https://www.zillow.com/research/facebook-ipo-home-values/\">report\u003c/a> found that after Facebook went public with a $104 billion valuation, home values near the company’s Menlo Park headquarters climbed at a higher rate than other parts of the Bay Area real estate market — 21% compared to 17%. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>But UC Berkeley economics professor Enrico Moretti said this particular IPO might not cause prices to increase much more than they already have — because of the limited number of people who live in the city \u003cem>and\u003c/em> work at Anthropic. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>But UC Berkeley economics professor Enrico Moretti said this particular IPO might not cause prices to increase much more than they already have — because of the limited number of people who live in the city \u003cem>and\u003c/em> work at Anthropic. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“The demand for housing will increase by a few thousand units,” Moretti said. Anthropic has 5,300 employees globally as of Sept. 30, according to its SEC filing, but Moretti said that not all of the employees and investors who will profit are based in San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“The demand for housing will increase by a few thousand units,” Moretti said. Anthropic has 5,300 employees globally as of Sept. 30, according to its SEC filing, but Moretti said that not all of the employees and investors who will profit are based in San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/260317-BeautifulBuildings-05-BL_qed-17647b3c.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107222\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/260317-BeautifulBuildings-05-BL_qed-17647b3c.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/260317-BeautifulBuildings-05-BL_qed-17647b3c-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/260317-BeautifulBuildings-05-BL_qed-17647b3c-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A house on California Street in the Pacific Heights neighborhood of San Francisco on March 17, 2026. \u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/260317-BeautifulBuildings-05-BL_qed-17647b3c.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107222\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A house on California Street in the Pacific Heights neighborhood of San Francisco on March 17, 2026. \u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>While newly wealthy shareholders may not push up prices across the city, they could still drive up prices in specific neighborhoods near Anthropic and OpenAI’s headquarters, said Karen Chapple, a professor emerita at UC Berkeley focused on economic development and housing. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>While newly wealthy shareholders may not push up prices across the city, they could still drive up prices in specific neighborhoods near Anthropic and OpenAI’s headquarters, said Karen Chapple, a professor emerita at UC Berkeley focused on economic development and housing. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>These areas include Mission-Potrero, South of Market, Pacific Heights, Hayes Valley and potentially downtown, Chapple said. “People really want to get to work within 15 minutes,” she said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>These areas include Mission-Potrero, South of Market, Pacific Heights, Hayes Valley and potentially downtown, Chapple said. “People really want to get to work within 15 minutes,” she said. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Something else that might contribute to rising prices is the city’s ongoing shortage of available units. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Something else that might contribute to rising prices is the city’s ongoing shortage of available units. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“The Bay Area economy is between a rock and a hard place,” said Christopher Thornberg, a founding partner of research and consulting firm Beacon Economics. “The rock is this AI funding that’s pouring in; the hard place is the lack of housing.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“The Bay Area economy is between a rock and a hard place,” said Christopher Thornberg, a founding partner of research and consulting firm Beacon Economics. “The rock is this AI funding that’s pouring in; the hard place is the lack of housing.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"attrs": {
"text": "More money, more jobs and bigger ice cream cones ",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>More money, more jobs and bigger ice cream cones \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Who will be most impacted: Service industry employees, AI-adjacent industries and artisans. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Who will be most impacted: Service industry employees, AI-adjacent industries and artisans. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>When it comes to the economy, more money usually means more jobs — usually. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>When it comes to the economy, more money usually means more jobs — usually. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Moretti said a single new tech job typically creates four to five additional jobs outside the tech sector. That’s because “every time that a new tech job is created in a metro area, that income is spent, in part, in the local economy,” Moretti said, listing everything from retail and restaurants to healthcare, education and architecture. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Moretti said a single new tech job typically creates four to five additional jobs outside the tech sector. That’s because “every time that a new tech job is created in a metro area, that income is spent, in part, in the local economy,” Moretti said, listing everything from retail and restaurants to healthcare, education and architecture. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>But while \u003ca href=\"https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-financial-and-quantitative-analysis/article/local-economic-spillover-effects-of-stock-market-listings/E61E5EA26F8FEF5D5A9CBC8477493A6C\">research\u003c/a> has linked previous IPOs to significant job creation, Moretti said that this particular Anthropic IPO may produce fewer new jobs. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>But while \u003ca href=\"https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-financial-and-quantitative-analysis/article/local-economic-spillover-effects-of-stock-market-listings/E61E5EA26F8FEF5D5A9CBC8477493A6C\">research\u003c/a> has linked previous IPOs to significant job creation, Moretti said that this particular Anthropic IPO may produce fewer new jobs. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-2294539418-a86fe375-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107266\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-2294539418-a86fe375-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-2294539418-a86fe375-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-2294539418-a86fe375-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-2294539418-a86fe375-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-2294539418-a86fe375-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Entrance to Foundry Square IV, headquarters of artificial intelligence company Anthropic, in the South of Market neighborhood, San Francisco, California, United States, Sept. 9, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Smith Collection/Gado via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-2294539418-a86fe375-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107266\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Entrance to Foundry Square IV, headquarters of artificial intelligence company Anthropic, in the South of Market neighborhood, San Francisco, California, United States, Sept. 9, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Smith Collection/Gado via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>That’s because companies have historically used IPOs to help them raise new capital and expand their operations — but that may not be the case for Anthropic. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“It had plenty of capital. In fact, there were people banging on its door to provide capital,” Moretti said, adding that the AI industry as a whole has not been “capital-constrained.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“It had plenty of capital. In fact, there were people banging on its door to provide capital,” Moretti said, adding that the AI industry as a whole has not been “capital-constrained.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Without major employment growth from Anthropic itself, there will be fewer new employees to spend money in the Bay Area and, subsequently, fewer new jobs in complementary industries, he said. “There’s only so much that you can spend locally,” Moretti said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Without major employment growth from Anthropic itself, there will be fewer new employees to spend money in the Bay Area and, subsequently, fewer new jobs in complementary industries, he said. “There’s only so much that you can spend locally,” Moretti said. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>One sector that’s already seen an increase in local spending — and could see more as IPO wealth floods in? Elaborate, in-person events. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>One sector that’s already seen an increase in local spending — and could see more as IPO wealth floods in? Elaborate, in-person events. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Vivienne Errington-Barnes, founder of [Shift + Alt], a company that produces everything from corporate retreats to birthday parties for individuals and companies in the tech sector, said that “there is a direct correlation between AI becoming more prolific and people wanting more in-person events.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261029-Anthropic-IPO-02-KQED-5ac416d1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107210\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Shift+Alt planned a lavish event for luxury wine group Osiris Club. \u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261029-Anthropic-IPO-02-KQED-5ac416d1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107210\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Shift+Alt planned a lavish event for luxury wine group Osiris Club. \u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261029-Anthropic-IPO-04-KQED-8df42784.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107212\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Shift + Alt founder Vivienne Errington-Barnes said “human” experiences are becoming more coveted in the age of AI. \u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“There’s a lot of weird and wonderful things coming up, like people who are fabricating life-size ice cream cones,” Errington-Barnes said. “They want to be remembered.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>People don’t just want more events; they want their events to be high-touch, high-impact and exceptionally human, Errington-Barnes said, describing a shift from DJs to live music and from light projections to physical performances and elaborate installations.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“We want the chef to come out and make a speech about how he made this Michelin star dish and what his story is. We want to get a human-interest kind of angle,” Errington-Barnes said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Another business that could see a local bump? Marriages and divorces.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>A 2012 \u003ca href=\"https://www.ft.com/content/433af3b0-a082-11e1-88e6-00144feabdc0\">Financial Times\u003c/a> article tracked the trend leading up to Facebook’s IPO, and found that wedding planners and wealth managers were gearing up to court newly-minted millionaires. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260403-SFLibraryWeddings-03-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12078843\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260403-SFLibraryWeddings-03-BL_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260403-SFLibraryWeddings-03-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260403-SFLibraryWeddings-03-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A couple poses for photos in the San Francisco Public Library Main Library on April 3, 2026, before their wedding ceremony. The library hosted a limited series of weddings during its 30th anniversary celebration, offering couples a chance to marry in a unique civic space.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Divorce lawyers, too, could see an influx of clients, said Haitham Amin, a San Francisco attorney and founding partner of Amin Law. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The attorney said 90% of his clients are in the tech industry, and forecasted a wide number of possibilities based on his experiences following the Facebook IPO and the rise of Nvidia. A boon can make or break some relationships, he said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“There’s going to be a good chunk of people that are going to realize that big money comes with a lot of problems — usually marital problems,” Amin said. “People just change when they get a lot of money.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"text": "Billionaire altruists could donate wealth",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Billionaire altruists could donate wealth\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Who will be the most impacted: Anyone the effective altruists deem worthy. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>As newly wealthy tech employees search for meaning and connection, they may start donating more to Bay Area charities … potentially. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>After working with dot-com millionaires in the 1990s, psychologists Stephen Goldbart and Joan DiFuria coined the term \u003ca href=\"https://www.mmcinstitute.com/?page_id=15\">“sudden wealth syndrome”\u003c/a> — aimed at capturing how people can face issues finding meaning and purpose after coming into a shocking amount of money and can become isolated from friends and family. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>After working with dot-com millionaires in the 1990s, psychologists Stephen Goldbart and Joan DiFuria coined the term \u003ca href=\"https://www.mmcinstitute.com/?page_id=15\">“sudden wealth syndrome”\u003c/a> — aimed at capturing how people can face issues finding meaning and purpose after coming into a shocking amount of money and can become isolated from friends and family. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“We’re seeing what we call billionaire bubbles,” DiFuria told KQED. “These gated communities are getting deeper and thicker, because the money is higher.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Some newly-minted millionaires retreat from society, DiFuria said. But others might decide to invest their money into their local communities. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“If you’re richer and you decide to donate, history tells us that a share of that will go to local charities,” Moretti said. “I think this is an area where there’s probably going to be a significant effect.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Berber Jin, AI enterprise reporter for \u003cem>The Wall Street Journal\u003c/em>, told KQED’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101915855/what-an-anthropic-ipo-could-mean-for-the-bay-area\">Forum\u003c/a> on Wednesday that early Anthropic employees have pledged up to half of their wealth to philanthropic causes. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>While wealthy philanthropists have historically donated to arts, culture and local nonprofits, the company has strong \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/09/26/nx-s1-5979085/the-ai-safety-debate-is-confusing-heres-our-guide-to-the-different-factions\">ties\u003c/a> to the effective altruism movement — a philosophy followed by some in the tech industry that purports to use rational thought to do the most long-term good possible. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>While wealthy philanthropists have historically donated to arts, culture and local nonprofits, the company has strong \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/09/26/nx-s1-5979085/the-ai-safety-debate-is-confusing-heres-our-guide-to-the-different-factions\">ties\u003c/a> to the effective altruism movement — a philosophy followed by some in the tech industry that purports to use rational thought to do the most long-term good possible. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The movement drew criticism after one of its most vocal proponents, crypto exchange founder \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2022/12/09/1141820351/can-billionaires-save-the-world-some-are-skeptical\">Sam Bankman-Fried\u003c/a>, was sentenced to 25 years in prison for fraud and money laundering. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1556770481-75ef1d7e.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107237\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1556770481-75ef1d7e.jpg 2341w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1556770481-75ef1d7e-2000x1332.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1556770481-75ef1d7e-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1556770481-75ef1d7e-1536x1023.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1556770481-75ef1d7e-2048x1364.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Former FTX chief Sam Bankman-Fried leaves the Federal Courthouse following a bail hearing ahead of his October trial, in New York City on July 26, 2023. \u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (ANGELA WEISS/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Jin said the enduring popularity of the movement among Anthropic’s earliest hires will likely impact how they spend their money. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“Because effective altruism is so ingrained in their worldviews, the chatter right now amongst early employees is like we should donate this money to fund AI safety nonprofits,” Jin said. Effective altruists often focus on \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/201504091000/poor-kids-vs-batkid-ethicist-peter-singer-on-how-to-choose-a-charitable-cause\">global causes\u003c/a> including animal welfare and public health. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In addition to spending more on philanthropy, Anthropic employees could continue to ramp up their political donations — they’ve already been spending big on AI-safety PACs, according to \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/dario-amodei-donation-22348647.php\">\u003cem>SFGate\u003c/em>\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>In addition to spending more on philanthropy, Anthropic employees could continue to ramp up their political donations — they’ve already been spending big on AI-safety PACs, according to \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/dario-amodei-donation-22348647.php\">\u003cem>SFGate\u003c/em>\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n"
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"attrs": {
"text": "Climate change and environmental concerns ",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Who will be the most impacted: Climate tech, nonprofits and environmental advocates. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>AI’s impact on our environment is a hot topic — pun intended. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Many groups have called attention to data centers’ staggering energy and water usage — which can lead to increased emissions and disrupt local water supplies and ecosystems, according to \u003ca href=\"https://news.mit.edu/2025/explained-generative-ai-environmental-impact-0117\">\u003cem>MIT News\u003c/em>\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Other \u003ca href=\"https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/can-ais-climate-benefits-outweigh-its-costs\">research\u003c/a> has also linked AI’s climate impact to the emissions associated with increasing production and economic growth. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/09/260828-SOUTH-BAY-DATA-CENTERS-MD-07-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12098431\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/09/260828-SOUTH-BAY-DATA-CENTERS-MD-07-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/09/260828-SOUTH-BAY-DATA-CENTERS-MD-07-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/09/260828-SOUTH-BAY-DATA-CENTERS-MD-07-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Buildings in the Alviso neighborhood of San José that Google plans to modify to operate in a capacity similar to a data center on Sept. 3, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/09/260828-SOUTH-BAY-DATA-CENTERS-MD-07-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12098431\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Buildings in the Alviso neighborhood of San José that Google plans to modify to operate in a capacity similar to a data center on Sept. 3, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>But on an individual level, “someone becoming a multimillionaire overnight does not suddenly mean that they are generating more emissions,” said Ben Gould, president of EcoDataLab, a firm that calculates consumer emissions for cities and counties.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>But on an individual level, “someone becoming a multimillionaire overnight does not suddenly mean that they are generating more emissions,” said Ben Gould, president of EcoDataLab, a firm that calculates consumer emissions for cities and counties.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“If anything, I would actually expect the IPO to have beneficial local climate impacts,” Gould told KQED by email. “Anthropic’s employees are probably more climate-conscious than average, and coming into a large amount of liquidity could help enable them to invest in low-emission technologies for their homes and lifestyles, like solar panels, heat pumps and EVs.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“If anything, I would actually expect the IPO to have beneficial local climate impacts,” Gould told KQED by email. “Anthropic’s employees are probably more climate-conscious than average, and coming into a large amount of liquidity could help enable them to invest in low-emission technologies for their homes and lifestyles, like solar panels, heat pumps and EVs.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>His colleague Christopher Jones, director of UC Berkeley’s CoolClimate Network, a group aimed at scaling up climate solutions, suggested that the development of AI has the potential — like the advent of personal computers — to enable the spread of low-carbon technologies. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>His colleague Christopher Jones, director of UC Berkeley’s CoolClimate Network, a group aimed at scaling up climate solutions, suggested that the development of AI has the potential — like the advent of personal computers — to enable the spread of low-carbon technologies. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp> “The largest environmental impacts of AI will not be from the water or energy demand of server farms, or the wealth generated for shareholders or employees,” Jones said, “but rather how AI will be used to change the ways humans live on the planet.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp> “The largest environmental impacts of AI will not be from the water or energy demand of server farms, or the wealth generated for shareholders or employees,” Jones said, “but rather how AI will be used to change the ways humans live on the planet.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>That is, if it doesn’t \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/09/13/nx-s1-5966638/could-ai-kill-us-all-professor-weighs-in-on-former-anthropic-employees-claim\">kill us\u003c/a> all first. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>That is, if it doesn’t \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/09/13/nx-s1-5966638/could-ai-kill-us-all-professor-weighs-in-on-former-anthropic-employees-claim\">kill us\u003c/a> all first. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cem>KQED’s\u003c/em> \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/dventon\">\u003cem>Danielle Venton\u003c/em>\u003c/a> \u003cem>and\u003c/em> \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/emanoukian\">\u003cem>Elize Manoukian\u003c/em>\u003c/a> \u003cem>contributed to this report.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cem>KQED’s\u003c/em> \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/dventon\">\u003cem>Danielle Venton\u003c/em>\u003c/a> \u003cem>and\u003c/em> \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/emanoukian\">\u003cem>Elize Manoukian\u003c/em>\u003c/a> \u003cem>contributed to this report.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n"
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"excerpt": "Analysts say that San Francisco AI giant Anthropic might make its stock market debut with a trillion-dollar valuation. Will any of this money trickle down to its hometown?",
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"title": "Real Estate, Climate and Wild Parties? Here’s How Anthropic’s IPO Could Affect the Bay Area | KQED",
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"headline": "Real Estate, Climate and Wild Parties? Here’s How Anthropic’s IPO Could Affect the Bay Area",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Living in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/bay-area\">Bay Area\u003c/a> can feel like living in a different economy from the rest of the U.S. — even a different world. Whether you’re buying a coffee or renting an apartment, prices inevitably get pegged to tech workers, many of whom make inconceivable amounts of money.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And soon, the Bay Area could pull even further away from the rest of the country now that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12106384/ai-giant-anthropic-files-for-an-ipo-that-could-break-records\">Anthropic\u003c/a>, one of the AI giants, has filed its initial public offering paperwork with the Securities and Exchange Commission and could begin trading as soon as November. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The filing comes weeks after the company’s CEO, Dario Amodei, argued in an \u003ca href=\"https://darioamodei.com/essay/the-adolescence-of-technology\">essay\u003c/a> for the slowdown of the development of AI models, acknowledging the risks associated with the “powerful” emergent technology are “serious.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The IPO would give the company “enormous resources to accelerate its expansion,” \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/anthropic-ipo-shares-public-ca2f4c282bef3201a392e59e3df2300c\">\u003cem>the Associated Press\u003c/em>\u003c/a> said, and would turn the startup into one of the world’s most valuable companies, even at lower estimates.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>The IPO and the Bay \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Once the company goes public, Anthropic employees and investors can begin selling their shares, turning their hitherto-hypothetical millions into cold hard cash. (That exact timing, however, will depend on a shareholder’s individual \u003ca href=\"https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lockup-period.asp\">“lock-up”\u003c/a> schedule.)\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The Bay Area is no stranger to technological \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11655090/how-californias-gold-rush-forged-the-path-for-todays-tech-innovators\">“Gold Rushes.”\u003c/a> But Anthropic’s imminent IPO could blow them all out of the water, with reports estimating a valuation as high as \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/10/26/nx-s1-6014772/anthropic-ai-ipo-could-break-records\">$2 trillion\u003c/a>. And speculation has already begun about the impact this kind of cash could have on the Bay Area. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In July, \u003ca href=\"https://www.redfin.com/news/openai-anthropic-housing-wealth/\">Redfin\u003c/a> estimated that the current and former employees of Anthropic — and fellow AI company OpenAI, which \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/09/12/nx-s1-5950588/openai-anthropic-ai-safety-researchers-hacks\">delayed\u003c/a> its own IPO to 2027 — could hypothetically make enough from their respective IPOs to buy up a third of the total homes in San Francisco. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"857\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/Houses_in_San_Francisco_qed-1adc92e1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107213\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/Houses_in_San_Francisco_qed-1adc92e1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/Houses_in_San_Francisco_qed-1adc92e1-160x69.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/Houses_in_San_Francisco_qed-1adc92e1-1536x658.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A row of homes on Capp Street, between 22nd and 23rd Streets, in San Francisco’s Mission District. (Courtesy of Wikimedia Commons)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But economists are skeptical the offering will bring widespread change. Ted Egan, the city of San Francisco’s chief economist, said that the impact of Anthropic’s IPO on San Francisco’s budget will be “modest” at best. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“While it could potentially be a lot of money, I’m not sure it will be particularly noticeable to everybody in the city,” Egan said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Here’s what we know about how the coming Anthropic IPO could affect you in the Bay Area. Spoiler: Many of its impacts on those of us in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/30/opinion/ai-labor-work-force-silicon-valley.html\">“permanent underclass”\u003c/a> are already here. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Housing prices could keep rising\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Who will be most affected: Anyone trying to buy a house, afford rent, or move in San Francisco. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/housing\">Real estate and rental prices\u003c/a> increased \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12095536/after-the-18000-scam-how-can-bay-area-renters-protect-themselves\">dramatically\u003c/a> over the summer, thanks to a booming AI economy. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Redfin’s latest \u003ca href=\"https://www.redfin.com/cost-of-living-calculator/san-francisco-ca\">data\u003c/a> shows that the average price to buy a home in San Francisco is about $1.7 million dollars and the average rental is about $4,000 — 161% more than the national average.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">With prices already high, news of Anthropic’s IPO sparked \u003ca href=\"https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1whm8cg/future_of_sf_housing/\">fear\u003c/a> in both renters and buyers — with one \u003ca href=\"https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1xfzic9/anthropic_files_for_ipo_setting_the_stage_for_a/\">Reddit\u003c/a> user harkening back to a 2007 article from \u003ca href=\"https://theonion.com/report-nations-gentrified-neighborhoods-threatened-by-1819569723/\">\u003cem>The Onion\u003c/em>\u003c/a> titled “Nation’s Gentrified Neighborhoods Threatened By Aristocratization.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1438\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1236193788-a3ffbc0d-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107215\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1236193788-a3ffbc0d-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1236193788-a3ffbc0d-2000x1124.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1236193788-a3ffbc0d-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1236193788-a3ffbc0d-1536x863.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1236193788-a3ffbc0d-2048x1151.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1236193788-a3ffbc0d-1200x675.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">An aerial view shows a newly unveiled logo for “Meta”, the new name for Facebook’s parent company, in front of Facebook headquarters in Menlo Park on Oct. 28, 2021. – Facebook changed its parent company name to “Meta” on Oct. 28 as the tech giant tries to move past being a scandal-plagued social network to its virtual reality vision for the future. (NOAH BERGER/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And understandably so, given the ghosts of IPOs past. A 2019 Zillow \u003ca href=\"https://www.zillow.com/research/facebook-ipo-home-values/\">report\u003c/a> found that after Facebook went public with a $104 billion valuation, home values near the company’s Menlo Park headquarters climbed at a higher rate than other parts of the Bay Area real estate market — 21% compared to 17%. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But UC Berkeley economics professor Enrico Moretti said this particular IPO might not cause prices to increase much more than they already have — because of the limited number of people who live in the city \u003cem>and\u003c/em> work at Anthropic. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“The demand for housing will increase by a few thousand units,” Moretti said. Anthropic has 5,300 employees globally as of Sept. 30, according to its SEC filing, but Moretti said that not all of the employees and investors who will profit are based in San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/260317-BeautifulBuildings-05-BL_qed-17647b3c.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107222\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/260317-BeautifulBuildings-05-BL_qed-17647b3c.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/260317-BeautifulBuildings-05-BL_qed-17647b3c-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/260317-BeautifulBuildings-05-BL_qed-17647b3c-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A house on California Street in the Pacific Heights neighborhood of San Francisco on March 17, 2026. (Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">While newly wealthy shareholders may not push up prices across the city, they could still drive up prices in specific neighborhoods near Anthropic and OpenAI’s headquarters, said Karen Chapple, a professor emerita at UC Berkeley focused on economic development and housing. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">These areas include Mission-Potrero, South of Market, Pacific Heights, Hayes Valley and potentially downtown, Chapple said. “People really want to get to work within 15 minutes,” she said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Something else that might contribute to rising prices is the city’s ongoing shortage of available units. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“The Bay Area economy is between a rock and a hard place,” said Christopher Thornberg, a founding partner of research and consulting firm Beacon Economics. “The rock is this AI funding that’s pouring in; the hard place is the lack of housing.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>More money, more jobs and bigger ice cream cones \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Who will be most impacted: Service industry employees, AI-adjacent industries and artisans. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When it comes to the economy, more money usually means more jobs — usually. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Moretti said a single new tech job typically creates four to five additional jobs outside the tech sector. That’s because “every time that a new tech job is created in a metro area, that income is spent, in part, in the local economy,” Moretti said, listing everything from retail and restaurants to healthcare, education and architecture. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But while \u003ca href=\"https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-financial-and-quantitative-analysis/article/local-economic-spillover-effects-of-stock-market-listings/E61E5EA26F8FEF5D5A9CBC8477493A6C\">research\u003c/a> has linked previous IPOs to significant job creation, Moretti said that this particular Anthropic IPO may produce fewer new jobs. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-2294539418-a86fe375-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107266\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-2294539418-a86fe375-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-2294539418-a86fe375-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-2294539418-a86fe375-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-2294539418-a86fe375-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-2294539418-a86fe375-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Entrance to Foundry Square IV, headquarters of artificial intelligence company Anthropic, in the South of Market neighborhood, San Francisco, California, United States, Sept. 9, 2026. (Smith Collection/Gado via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That’s because companies have historically used IPOs to help them raise new capital and expand their operations — but that may not be the case for Anthropic. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“It had plenty of capital. In fact, there were people banging on its door to provide capital,” Moretti said, adding that the AI industry as a whole has not been “capital-constrained.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Without major employment growth from Anthropic itself, there will be fewer new employees to spend money in the Bay Area and, subsequently, fewer new jobs in complementary industries, he said. “There’s only so much that you can spend locally,” Moretti said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">One sector that’s already seen an increase in local spending — and could see more as IPO wealth floods in? Elaborate, in-person events. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Vivienne Errington-Barnes, founder of [Shift + Alt], a company that produces everything from corporate retreats to birthday parties for individuals and companies in the tech sector, said that “there is a direct correlation between AI becoming more prolific and people wanting more in-person events.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-3 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" data-id=\"12107210\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261029-Anthropic-IPO-02-KQED-5ac416d1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107210\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261029-Anthropic-IPO-02-KQED-5ac416d1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261029-Anthropic-IPO-02-KQED-5ac416d1-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261029-Anthropic-IPO-02-KQED-5ac416d1-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Shift+Alt planned a lavish event for luxury wine group Osiris Club. (Courtesy of Shift + Alt Events)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" data-id=\"12107212\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261029-Anthropic-IPO-04-KQED-8df42784.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107212\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261029-Anthropic-IPO-04-KQED-8df42784.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261029-Anthropic-IPO-04-KQED-8df42784-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261029-Anthropic-IPO-04-KQED-8df42784-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Shift + Alt founder Vivienne Errington-Barnes said “human” experiences are becoming more coveted in the age of AI. (Courtesy of Shift + Alt Events)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“There’s a lot of weird and wonderful things coming up, like people who are fabricating life-size ice cream cones,” Errington-Barnes said. “They want to be remembered.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">People don’t just want more events; they want their events to be high-touch, high-impact and exceptionally human, Errington-Barnes said, describing a shift from DJs to live music and from light projections to physical performances and elaborate installations.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“We want the chef to come out and make a speech about how he made this Michelin star dish and what his story is. We want to get a human-interest kind of angle,” Errington-Barnes said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>IPOs could boost the industry of love\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Who will be most impacted: Wedding planners, divorce lawyers and the couples they serve. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Another business that could see a local bump? Marriages and divorces.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">A 2012 \u003ca href=\"https://www.ft.com/content/433af3b0-a082-11e1-88e6-00144feabdc0\">Financial Times\u003c/a> article tracked the trend leading up to Facebook’s IPO, and found that wedding planners and wealth managers were gearing up to court newly-minted millionaires. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260403-SFLibraryWeddings-03-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12078843\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260403-SFLibraryWeddings-03-BL_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260403-SFLibraryWeddings-03-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260403-SFLibraryWeddings-03-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A couple poses for photos in the San Francisco Public Library Main Library on April 3, 2026, before their wedding ceremony. The library hosted a limited series of weddings during its 30th anniversary celebration, offering couples a chance to marry in a unique civic space. (Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Divorce lawyers, too, could see an influx of clients, said Haitham Amin, a San Francisco attorney and founding partner of Amin Law. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The attorney said 90% of his clients are in the tech industry, and forecasted a wide number of possibilities based on his experiences following the Facebook IPO and the rise of Nvidia. A boon can make or break some relationships, he said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“There’s going to be a good chunk of people that are going to realize that big money comes with a lot of problems — usually marital problems,” Amin said. “People just change when they get a lot of money.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Billionaire altruists could donate wealth\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Who will be the most impacted: Anyone the effective altruists deem worthy. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As newly wealthy tech employees search for meaning and connection, they may start donating more to Bay Area charities … potentially. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">After working with dot-com millionaires in the 1990s, psychologists Stephen Goldbart and Joan DiFuria coined the term \u003ca href=\"https://www.mmcinstitute.com/?page_id=15\">“sudden wealth syndrome”\u003c/a> — aimed at capturing how people can face issues finding meaning and purpose after coming into a shocking amount of money and can become isolated from friends and family. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“We’re seeing what we call billionaire bubbles,” DiFuria told KQED. “These gated communities are getting deeper and thicker, because the money is higher.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Some newly-minted millionaires retreat from society, DiFuria said. But others might decide to invest their money into their local communities. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“If you’re richer and you decide to donate, history tells us that a share of that will go to local charities,” Moretti said. “I think this is an area where there’s probably going to be a significant effect.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Berber Jin, AI enterprise reporter for \u003cem>The Wall Street Journal\u003c/em>, told KQED’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101915855/what-an-anthropic-ipo-could-mean-for-the-bay-area\">Forum\u003c/a> on Wednesday that early Anthropic employees have pledged up to half of their wealth to philanthropic causes. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">While wealthy philanthropists have historically donated to arts, culture and local nonprofits, the company has strong \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/09/26/nx-s1-5979085/the-ai-safety-debate-is-confusing-heres-our-guide-to-the-different-factions\">ties\u003c/a> to the effective altruism movement — a philosophy followed by some in the tech industry that purports to use rational thought to do the most long-term good possible. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The movement drew criticism after one of its most vocal proponents, crypto exchange founder \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2022/12/09/1141820351/can-billionaires-save-the-world-some-are-skeptical\">Sam Bankman-Fried\u003c/a>, was sentenced to 25 years in prison for fraud and money laundering. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2341\" height=\"1559\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1556770481-75ef1d7e.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12107237\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1556770481-75ef1d7e.jpg 2341w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1556770481-75ef1d7e-2000x1332.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1556770481-75ef1d7e-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1556770481-75ef1d7e-1536x1023.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1556770481-75ef1d7e-2048x1364.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2341px) 100vw, 2341px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Former FTX chief Sam Bankman-Fried leaves the Federal Courthouse following a bail hearing ahead of his October trial, in New York City on July 26, 2023. (ANGELA WEISS/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Jin said the enduring popularity of the movement among Anthropic’s earliest hires will likely impact how they spend their money. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Because effective altruism is so ingrained in their worldviews, the chatter right now amongst early employees is like we should donate this money to fund AI safety nonprofits,” Jin said. Effective altruists often focus on \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/201504091000/poor-kids-vs-batkid-ethicist-peter-singer-on-how-to-choose-a-charitable-cause\">global causes\u003c/a> including animal welfare and public health. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In addition to spending more on philanthropy, Anthropic employees could continue to ramp up their political donations — they’ve already been spending big on AI-safety PACs, according to \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/dario-amodei-donation-22348647.php\">\u003cem>SFGate\u003c/em>\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Climate change and environmental concerns \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>Who will be the most impacted: Climate tech, nonprofits and environmental advocates. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">AI’s impact on our environment is a hot topic — pun intended. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Many groups have called attention to data centers’ staggering energy and water usage — which can lead to increased emissions and disrupt local water supplies and ecosystems, according to \u003ca href=\"https://news.mit.edu/2025/explained-generative-ai-environmental-impact-0117\">\u003cem>MIT News\u003c/em>\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Other \u003ca href=\"https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/can-ais-climate-benefits-outweigh-its-costs\">research\u003c/a> has also linked AI’s climate impact to the emissions associated with increasing production and economic growth. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Wealth itself is often \u003ca href=\"https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/richest-1-emit-much-planet-heating-pollution-two-thirds-humanity\">linked\u003c/a> to pollution, especially when it’s spent on fossil-fuel-intensive goods and services like driving, flying and eating red meat, just to name a few.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-image\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"aligncenter size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/09/260828-SOUTH-BAY-DATA-CENTERS-MD-07-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12098431\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/09/260828-SOUTH-BAY-DATA-CENTERS-MD-07-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/09/260828-SOUTH-BAY-DATA-CENTERS-MD-07-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/09/260828-SOUTH-BAY-DATA-CENTERS-MD-07-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Buildings in the Alviso neighborhood of San José that Google plans to modify to operate in a capacity similar to a data center on Sept. 3, 2026. (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But on an individual level, “someone becoming a multimillionaire overnight does not suddenly mean that they are generating more emissions,” said Ben Gould, president of EcoDataLab, a firm that calculates consumer emissions for cities and counties.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“If anything, I would actually expect the IPO to have beneficial local climate impacts,” Gould told KQED by email. “Anthropic’s employees are probably more climate-conscious than average, and coming into a large amount of liquidity could help enable them to invest in low-emission technologies for their homes and lifestyles, like solar panels, heat pumps and EVs.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">His colleague Christopher Jones, director of UC Berkeley’s CoolClimate Network, a group aimed at scaling up climate solutions, suggested that the development of AI has the potential — like the advent of personal computers — to enable the spread of low-carbon technologies. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"> “The largest environmental impacts of AI will not be from the water or energy demand of server farms, or the wealth generated for shareholders or employees,” Jones said, “but rather how AI will be used to change the ways humans live on the planet.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That is, if it doesn’t \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/09/13/nx-s1-5966638/could-ai-kill-us-all-professor-weighs-in-on-former-anthropic-employees-claim\">kill us\u003c/a> all first. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>KQED’s\u003c/em> \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/dventon\">\u003cem>Danielle Venton\u003c/em>\u003c/a> \u003cem>and\u003c/em> \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/emanoukian\">\u003cem>Elize Manoukian\u003c/em>\u003c/a> \u003cem>contributed to this report.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "californias-new-ai-bossware-laws-are-about-to-take-effect-are-employers-ready",
"title": "California’s New AI ‘Bossware’ Laws Are About to Take Effect. Are Employers Ready?",
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"headTitle": "California’s New AI ‘Bossware’ Laws Are About to Take Effect. Are Employers Ready? | KQED",
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"content": "\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pa Vue is a telephone triage nurse with \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/kaiser-permanente\">Kaiser Permanente\u003c/a>. She works the night shift, from midnight to 8:30 a.m., from her home in the Central Valley. Vue’s job is to calmly assess each caller as they describe their concerns and symptoms, looking for red flags that indicate immediate treatment is warranted, like signs of a heart attack or stroke.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It’s a critical job, and one of a growing number impacted by AI-powered surveillance software, aka “bossware.” California has gone further than any other state to begin regulating it. At the end of September, Gov. Gavin Newsom signed \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12102337/newsom-signs-slate-of-ai-workplace-laws-barring-robo-bosses-and-surveillance\">five labor-backed bills regulating AI in the workplace\u003c/a>. Among them is \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260AB1979\">AB 1979\u003c/a>, which bars health facilities from letting AI alone do work reserved for licensed professionals, and requires them to protect clinicians’ independent judgment when AI informs care. \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billVersionsCompareClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260AB1883\">AB 1883\u003c/a> restricts employers from using AI-powered workplace surveillance tools to read workers’ emotions or collect their neural data. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In 2024, Vue said she learned Kaiser was piloting a feature that included scoring the sentiment of recorded calls — as in, evaluating employees’ attitudes in the recordings. Nurses were later told the pilot was paused. But while Vue was on maternity leave a year later, Kaiser appeared to have instituted the feature, because Vue said she came back to work to find a “sentiment score” in the metadata attached to each of her recorded calls. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Vue said she isn’t opposed to AI in medicine, but she objects to the sentiment scoring because triage nurses are trained to stay calm and press patients to detail their symptoms, even if that means the patients become agitated or fearful in the process. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Vue said she wasn’t even sure how to interpret the numbers she was seeing in the metadata. She wasn’t sure what scale she was being graded on or how high the numbers went. The nurses asked management about the metrics, Vue said, but got no answers. Whoever made the system that was evaluating the calls, Vue said, didn’t “really understand what we’re going through.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-KAISER-AI-NURSES-01-KQED-bab50399.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106026\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-KAISER-AI-NURSES-01-KQED-bab50399.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-KAISER-AI-NURSES-01-KQED-bab50399-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-KAISER-AI-NURSES-01-KQED-bab50399-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Pa Vue, a Telephone Triage Nurse, at her home office in Fresno on Oct. 22, 2026. (Jennifer Emerling for KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Contacted for comment, a spokesperson for Kaiser wrote KQED, “We currently do not use AI tools to recognize, predict or infer emotional states of our nurses.” The spokesperson also wrote that the healthcare giant is reviewing the implications of AB 1883 for its operations. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Scoring whether someone said the right words is one thing, and that’s okay, but scoring what they were feeling now is off limits,” management-side employment attorney Anthony Zaller told KQED. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">AB 1883 should, in theory, require removing sentiment scoring-style software from jobs like Vue’s. Zaller said he’s not familiar with Kaiser’s use of AI specifically, but he said that employers commonly don’t realize the extent to which AI is embedded in their software — or that existing laws already make employers responsible in a way they can’t sidestep “just because you ran it through some software.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Vue is a member of the California Nurses Association, which has been \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12097878/in-oakland-kaiser-nurses-take-staffing-ai-concerns-to-the-picket-lines\">battling Kaiser\u003c/a> over its use of AI bossware. Her account appeared under a pseudonym as one first-person example among a couple dozen from workers around the state in a recent labor coalition \u003ca href=\"https://url.us.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/wjHhCwpkPvsknn3yFVfGpsJn6NG?domain=report.norobobosses.org/\">report\u003c/a> warning that artificial intelligence and surveillance tools are increasingly used to monitor, manage and discipline workers.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Workers are experiencing unprecedented levels of surveillance and monitoring in their workplaces,” said Stasia Hansen, deputy director of research and strategy at one of the coalition members, the East Bay Alliance for a Sustainable Economy, a labor and housing organization focused on Alameda and Contra Costa counties. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Vue first learned of the 2024 pilot because she sits on a joint union-management committee on nursing practice; the committee brought its concerns to management’s attention “to really hold them accountable to their own principles,” she said, referring to \u003ca href=\"https://about.kaiserpermanente.org/expertise-and-impact/public-policy/our-key-issues/artificial-intelligence\">Kaiser’s publicly stated AI policy\u003c/a>. She was less than impressed with management’s response.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“They tell us they can’t turn it off. Of course, nothing can be turned off because it’s built into the system. So they will have to lose a lot of money and go with a different software, or they’re just going to have to use the platform,” Vue said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">KQED asked Kaiser whether its call platform generates sentiment scores, whose sentiment they measure and whether the feature can be turned off. Kaiser did not answer. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">How widespread bossware is remains hard to measure. Employers rarely disclose the tools they use, and the algorithms are proprietary, so outside researchers seldom get to examine them except through leaks or lawsuits. But the signs keep piling up.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The use of work-surveillance technology took off during the pandemic. As many people started working remotely, more employers began surveilling their teams in new ways: tracking keyboard strokes, taking screenshots and monitoring pauses. According to The New York Times, by 2022, \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/08/14/business/worker-productivity-tracking.html\">eight of the 10 biggest private employers\u003c/a> in the United States were tracking the productivity metrics of individual workers.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260317-KAISER-RETREATS-MD-09-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12076763\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260317-KAISER-RETREATS-MD-09-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260317-KAISER-RETREATS-MD-09-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260317-KAISER-RETREATS-MD-09-KQED-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The Kaiser Permanente building at 1800 Harrison (center-top) in Oakland on March 16, 2026. (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Workers in a wide variety of industries, Hansen said, “are facing consequences due to productivity expectations or due to systems that don’t reasonably take into consideration key factors of their workplaces and work situations, which we as humans are able to assess.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As it moved through the legislature last session, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12097632/chatbots-data-centers-and-surveillance-5-silicon-valley-bills-land-on-newsoms-desk\">AB 1883\u003c/a> faced opposition among business-friendly interests. The California Chamber of Commerce, for example, said in a letter to lawmakers that the bill would open employers up to litigation over what the phrase “emotional state” means. The Chamber also said that the ban could sweep in AI security systems that detect agitation or aggression, tools some employers adopted to comply with a 2023 state law requiring workplace violence prevention plans.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">California lawmakers aren’t the only ones to consider legislating limits on bossware. The European Union, for instance, has banned emotion recognition at work since 2025. But similar bills specifically seeking to regulate the use of AI to detect worker emotion died this year in Minnesota, New York and Washington. A broader Massachusetts bill limiting workplace monitoring stalled in committee. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">California’s bills “took some hits in the committee process,” said Hansen, the East Bay Alliance for a Sustainable Economy deputy research director, referring to the compromises made to get the proposals through the legislature and signed by the governor. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What can pass in Sacramento, she said, is different from what can pass locally. “So while we’re thrilled to see this foundation at the state level, we also know that there’s a lot more to be done for actual robust protections for workers, and so we’re looking to move those on the local level, across the state.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Hansen did not name a Bay Area city or county that has agreed to take up such a measure. None appears to have done so, although Santa Clara County supervisors voted in March to study AI use across county departments, and San José’s largest city employee union has sought limits on AI in contract talks with the city.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The People’s Technology Coalition, which includes the San José nonprofit Working Partnerships USA, held its launch at San José City Hall in September. Hansen said the coalition plans to start with public employers, because cities can act both as employers — setting rules for their own workforce and the technology they buy — and as regulators of private employers within their limits. “It’s both the city as an employer and also the city as a regulatory body,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In the meantime, tech companies are pouring some of the largest private investments in history into AI built to automate work. Zaller, the employment attorney, is doubtful regulation will stop the use of bossware altogether.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“The Pandora’s box is open. It’s here,” he said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Pa Vue is a telephone triage nurse with \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/kaiser-permanente\">Kaiser Permanente\u003c/a>. She works the night shift, from midnight to 8:30 a.m., from her home in the Central Valley. Vue’s job is to calmly assess each caller as they describe their concerns and symptoms, looking for red flags that indicate immediate treatment is warranted, like signs of a heart attack or stroke.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Pa Vue is a telephone triage nurse with \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/kaiser-permanente\">Kaiser Permanente\u003c/a>. She works the night shift, from midnight to 8:30 a.m., from her home in the Central Valley. Vue’s job is to calmly assess each caller as they describe their concerns and symptoms, looking for red flags that indicate immediate treatment is warranted, like signs of a heart attack or stroke.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>It’s a critical job, and one of a growing number impacted by AI-powered surveillance software, aka “bossware.” California has gone further than any other state to begin regulating it. At the end of September, Gov. Gavin Newsom signed \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12102337/newsom-signs-slate-of-ai-workplace-laws-barring-robo-bosses-and-surveillance\">five labor-backed bills regulating AI in the workplace\u003c/a>. Among them is \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260AB1979\">AB 1979\u003c/a>, which bars health facilities from letting AI alone do work reserved for licensed professionals, and requires them to protect clinicians’ independent judgment when AI informs care. \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billVersionsCompareClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260AB1883\">AB 1883\u003c/a> restricts employers from using AI-powered workplace surveillance tools to read workers’ emotions or collect their neural data. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>It’s a critical job, and one of a growing number impacted by AI-powered surveillance software, aka “bossware.” California has gone further than any other state to begin regulating it. At the end of September, Gov. Gavin Newsom signed \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12102337/newsom-signs-slate-of-ai-workplace-laws-barring-robo-bosses-and-surveillance\">five labor-backed bills regulating AI in the workplace\u003c/a>. Among them is \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260AB1979\">AB 1979\u003c/a>, which bars health facilities from letting AI alone do work reserved for licensed professionals, and requires them to protect clinicians’ independent judgment when AI informs care. \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billVersionsCompareClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260AB1883\">AB 1883\u003c/a> restricts employers from using AI-powered workplace surveillance tools to read workers’ emotions or collect their neural data. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In 2024, Vue said she learned Kaiser was piloting a feature that included scoring the sentiment of recorded calls — as in, evaluating employees’ attitudes in the recordings. Nurses were later told the pilot was paused. But while Vue was on maternity leave a year later, Kaiser appeared to have instituted the feature, because Vue said she came back to work to find a “sentiment score” in the metadata attached to each of her recorded calls. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>In 2024, Vue said she learned Kaiser was piloting a feature that included scoring the sentiment of recorded calls — as in, evaluating employees’ attitudes in the recordings. Nurses were later told the pilot was paused. But while Vue was on maternity leave a year later, Kaiser appeared to have instituted the feature, because Vue said she came back to work to find a “sentiment score” in the metadata attached to each of her recorded calls. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Vue said she isn’t opposed to AI in medicine, but she objects to the sentiment scoring because triage nurses are trained to stay calm and press patients to detail their symptoms, even if that means the patients become agitated or fearful in the process. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Vue said she isn’t opposed to AI in medicine, but she objects to the sentiment scoring because triage nurses are trained to stay calm and press patients to detail their symptoms, even if that means the patients become agitated or fearful in the process. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Vue said she wasn’t even sure how to interpret the numbers she was seeing in the metadata. She wasn’t sure what scale she was being graded on or how high the numbers went. The nurses asked management about the metrics, Vue said, but got no answers. Whoever made the system that was evaluating the calls, Vue said, didn’t “really understand what we’re going through.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Vue said she wasn’t even sure how to interpret the numbers she was seeing in the metadata. She wasn’t sure what scale she was being graded on or how high the numbers went. The nurses asked management about the metrics, Vue said, but got no answers. Whoever made the system that was evaluating the calls, Vue said, didn’t “really understand what we’re going through.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-KAISER-AI-NURSES-01-KQED-bab50399.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106026\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-KAISER-AI-NURSES-01-KQED-bab50399.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-KAISER-AI-NURSES-01-KQED-bab50399-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-KAISER-AI-NURSES-01-KQED-bab50399-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Pa Vue, a Telephone Triage Nurse, at her home office in Fresno on Oct. 22, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Jennifer Emerling for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Contacted for comment, a spokesperson for Kaiser wrote KQED, “We currently do not use AI tools to recognize, predict or infer emotional states of our nurses.” The spokesperson also wrote that the healthcare giant is reviewing the implications of AB 1883 for its operations. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Contacted for comment, a spokesperson for Kaiser wrote KQED, “We currently do not use AI tools to recognize, predict or infer emotional states of our nurses.” The spokesperson also wrote that the healthcare giant is reviewing the implications of AB 1883 for its operations. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“Scoring whether someone said the right words is one thing, and that’s okay, but scoring what they were feeling now is off limits,” management-side employment attorney Anthony Zaller told KQED. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>AB 1883 should, in theory, require removing sentiment scoring-style software from jobs like Vue’s. Zaller said he’s not familiar with Kaiser’s use of AI specifically, but he said that employers commonly don’t realize the extent to which AI is embedded in their software — or that existing laws already make employers responsible in a way they can’t sidestep “just because you ran it through some software.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>AB 1883 should, in theory, require removing sentiment scoring-style software from jobs like Vue’s. Zaller said he’s not familiar with Kaiser’s use of AI specifically, but he said that employers commonly don’t realize the extent to which AI is embedded in their software — or that existing laws already make employers responsible in a way they can’t sidestep “just because you ran it through some software.” \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Vue is a member of the California Nurses Association, which has been \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12097878/in-oakland-kaiser-nurses-take-staffing-ai-concerns-to-the-picket-lines\">battling Kaiser\u003c/a> over its use of AI bossware. Her account appeared under a pseudonym as one first-person example among a couple dozen from workers around the state in a recent labor coalition \u003ca href=\"https://url.us.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/wjHhCwpkPvsknn3yFVfGpsJn6NG?domain=report.norobobosses.org/\">report\u003c/a> warning that artificial intelligence and surveillance tools are increasingly used to monitor, manage and discipline workers.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Vue is a member of the California Nurses Association, which has been \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12097878/in-oakland-kaiser-nurses-take-staffing-ai-concerns-to-the-picket-lines\">battling Kaiser\u003c/a> over its use of AI bossware. Her account appeared under a pseudonym as one first-person example among a couple dozen from workers around the state in a recent labor coalition \u003ca href=\"https://url.us.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/wjHhCwpkPvsknn3yFVfGpsJn6NG?domain=report.norobobosses.org/\">report\u003c/a> warning that artificial intelligence and surveillance tools are increasingly used to monitor, manage and discipline workers.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“Workers are experiencing unprecedented levels of surveillance and monitoring in their workplaces,” said Stasia Hansen, deputy director of research and strategy at one of the coalition members, the East Bay Alliance for a Sustainable Economy, a labor and housing organization focused on Alameda and Contra Costa counties. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“Workers are experiencing unprecedented levels of surveillance and monitoring in their workplaces,” said Stasia Hansen, deputy director of research and strategy at one of the coalition members, the East Bay Alliance for a Sustainable Economy, a labor and housing organization focused on Alameda and Contra Costa counties. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Vue first learned of the 2024 pilot because she sits on a joint union-management committee on nursing practice; the committee brought its concerns to management’s attention “to really hold them accountable to their own principles,” she said, referring to \u003ca href=\"https://about.kaiserpermanente.org/expertise-and-impact/public-policy/our-key-issues/artificial-intelligence\">Kaiser’s publicly stated AI policy\u003c/a>. She was less than impressed with management’s response.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Vue first learned of the 2024 pilot because she sits on a joint union-management committee on nursing practice; the committee brought its concerns to management’s attention “to really hold them accountable to their own principles,” she said, referring to \u003ca href=\"https://about.kaiserpermanente.org/expertise-and-impact/public-policy/our-key-issues/artificial-intelligence\">Kaiser’s publicly stated AI policy\u003c/a>. She was less than impressed with management’s response.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“They tell us they can’t turn it off. Of course, nothing can be turned off because it’s built into the system. So they will have to lose a lot of money and go with a different software, or they’re just going to have to use the platform,” Vue said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“They tell us they can’t turn it off. Of course, nothing can be turned off because it’s built into the system. So they will have to lose a lot of money and go with a different software, or they’re just going to have to use the platform,” Vue said. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>KQED asked Kaiser whether its call platform generates sentiment scores, whose sentiment they measure and whether the feature can be turned off. Kaiser did not answer. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>KQED asked Kaiser whether its call platform generates sentiment scores, whose sentiment they measure and whether the feature can be turned off. Kaiser did not answer. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>How widespread bossware is remains hard to measure. Employers rarely disclose the tools they use, and the algorithms are proprietary, so outside researchers seldom get to examine them except through leaks or lawsuits. But the signs keep piling up.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>How widespread bossware is remains hard to measure. Employers rarely disclose the tools they use, and the algorithms are proprietary, so outside researchers seldom get to examine them except through leaks or lawsuits. But the signs keep piling up.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The use of work-surveillance technology took off during the pandemic. As many people started working remotely, more employers began surveilling their teams in new ways: tracking keyboard strokes, taking screenshots and monitoring pauses. According to The New York Times, by 2022, \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/08/14/business/worker-productivity-tracking.html\">eight of the 10 biggest private employers\u003c/a> in the United States were tracking the productivity metrics of individual workers.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Workers in a wide variety of industries, Hansen said, “are facing consequences due to productivity expectations or due to systems that don’t reasonably take into consideration key factors of their workplaces and work situations, which we as humans are able to assess.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>As it moved through the legislature last session, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12097632/chatbots-data-centers-and-surveillance-5-silicon-valley-bills-land-on-newsoms-desk\">AB 1883\u003c/a> faced opposition among business-friendly interests. The California Chamber of Commerce, for example, said in a letter to lawmakers that the bill would open employers up to litigation over what the phrase “emotional state” means. The Chamber also said that the ban could sweep in AI security systems that detect agitation or aggression, tools some employers adopted to comply with a 2023 state law requiring workplace violence prevention plans.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>California lawmakers aren’t the only ones to consider legislating limits on bossware. The European Union, for instance, has banned emotion recognition at work since 2025. But similar bills specifically seeking to regulate the use of AI to detect worker emotion died this year in Minnesota, New York and Washington. A broader Massachusetts bill limiting workplace monitoring stalled in committee. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>California’s bills “took some hits in the committee process,” said Hansen, the East Bay Alliance for a Sustainable Economy deputy research director, referring to the compromises made to get the proposals through the legislature and signed by the governor. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>What can pass in Sacramento, she said, is different from what can pass locally. “So while we’re thrilled to see this foundation at the state level, we also know that there’s a lot more to be done for actual robust protections for workers, and so we’re looking to move those on the local level, across the state.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Hansen did not name a Bay Area city or county that has agreed to take up such a measure. None appears to have done so, although Santa Clara County supervisors voted in March to study AI use across county departments, and San José’s largest city employee union has sought limits on AI in contract talks with the city.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The People’s Technology Coalition, which includes the San José nonprofit Working Partnerships USA, held its launch at San José City Hall in September. Hansen said the coalition plans to start with public employers, because cities can act both as employers — setting rules for their own workforce and the technology they buy — and as regulators of private employers within their limits. “It’s both the city as an employer and also the city as a regulatory body,” she said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In the meantime, tech companies are pouring some of the largest private investments in history into AI built to automate work. Zaller, the employment attorney, is doubtful regulation will stop the use of bossware altogether.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“The Pandora’s box is open. It’s here,” he said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "New labor-backed laws about AI in the workplace are about to take effect in California. It’s not clear how many employers realize the software they already use may run afoul of the new rules.",
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"title": "California’s New AI ‘Bossware’ Laws Are About to Take Effect. Are Employers Ready? | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Pa Vue is a telephone triage nurse with \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/kaiser-permanente\">Kaiser Permanente\u003c/a>. She works the night shift, from midnight to 8:30 a.m., from her home in the Central Valley. Vue’s job is to calmly assess each caller as they describe their concerns and symptoms, looking for red flags that indicate immediate treatment is warranted, like signs of a heart attack or stroke.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It’s a critical job, and one of a growing number impacted by AI-powered surveillance software, aka “bossware.” California has gone further than any other state to begin regulating it. At the end of September, Gov. Gavin Newsom signed \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12102337/newsom-signs-slate-of-ai-workplace-laws-barring-robo-bosses-and-surveillance\">five labor-backed bills regulating AI in the workplace\u003c/a>. Among them is \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260AB1979\">AB 1979\u003c/a>, which bars health facilities from letting AI alone do work reserved for licensed professionals, and requires them to protect clinicians’ independent judgment when AI informs care. \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billVersionsCompareClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260AB1883\">AB 1883\u003c/a> restricts employers from using AI-powered workplace surveillance tools to read workers’ emotions or collect their neural data. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In 2024, Vue said she learned Kaiser was piloting a feature that included scoring the sentiment of recorded calls — as in, evaluating employees’ attitudes in the recordings. Nurses were later told the pilot was paused. But while Vue was on maternity leave a year later, Kaiser appeared to have instituted the feature, because Vue said she came back to work to find a “sentiment score” in the metadata attached to each of her recorded calls. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Vue said she isn’t opposed to AI in medicine, but she objects to the sentiment scoring because triage nurses are trained to stay calm and press patients to detail their symptoms, even if that means the patients become agitated or fearful in the process. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Vue said she wasn’t even sure how to interpret the numbers she was seeing in the metadata. She wasn’t sure what scale she was being graded on or how high the numbers went. The nurses asked management about the metrics, Vue said, but got no answers. Whoever made the system that was evaluating the calls, Vue said, didn’t “really understand what we’re going through.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-KAISER-AI-NURSES-01-KQED-bab50399.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12106026\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-KAISER-AI-NURSES-01-KQED-bab50399.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-KAISER-AI-NURSES-01-KQED-bab50399-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261023-KAISER-AI-NURSES-01-KQED-bab50399-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Pa Vue, a Telephone Triage Nurse, at her home office in Fresno on Oct. 22, 2026. (Jennifer Emerling for KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Contacted for comment, a spokesperson for Kaiser wrote KQED, “We currently do not use AI tools to recognize, predict or infer emotional states of our nurses.” The spokesperson also wrote that the healthcare giant is reviewing the implications of AB 1883 for its operations. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Scoring whether someone said the right words is one thing, and that’s okay, but scoring what they were feeling now is off limits,” management-side employment attorney Anthony Zaller told KQED. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">AB 1883 should, in theory, require removing sentiment scoring-style software from jobs like Vue’s. Zaller said he’s not familiar with Kaiser’s use of AI specifically, but he said that employers commonly don’t realize the extent to which AI is embedded in their software — or that existing laws already make employers responsible in a way they can’t sidestep “just because you ran it through some software.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Vue is a member of the California Nurses Association, which has been \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12097878/in-oakland-kaiser-nurses-take-staffing-ai-concerns-to-the-picket-lines\">battling Kaiser\u003c/a> over its use of AI bossware. Her account appeared under a pseudonym as one first-person example among a couple dozen from workers around the state in a recent labor coalition \u003ca href=\"https://url.us.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/wjHhCwpkPvsknn3yFVfGpsJn6NG?domain=report.norobobosses.org/\">report\u003c/a> warning that artificial intelligence and surveillance tools are increasingly used to monitor, manage and discipline workers.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Workers are experiencing unprecedented levels of surveillance and monitoring in their workplaces,” said Stasia Hansen, deputy director of research and strategy at one of the coalition members, the East Bay Alliance for a Sustainable Economy, a labor and housing organization focused on Alameda and Contra Costa counties. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Vue first learned of the 2024 pilot because she sits on a joint union-management committee on nursing practice; the committee brought its concerns to management’s attention “to really hold them accountable to their own principles,” she said, referring to \u003ca href=\"https://about.kaiserpermanente.org/expertise-and-impact/public-policy/our-key-issues/artificial-intelligence\">Kaiser’s publicly stated AI policy\u003c/a>. She was less than impressed with management’s response.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“They tell us they can’t turn it off. Of course, nothing can be turned off because it’s built into the system. So they will have to lose a lot of money and go with a different software, or they’re just going to have to use the platform,” Vue said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">KQED asked Kaiser whether its call platform generates sentiment scores, whose sentiment they measure and whether the feature can be turned off. Kaiser did not answer. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">How widespread bossware is remains hard to measure. Employers rarely disclose the tools they use, and the algorithms are proprietary, so outside researchers seldom get to examine them except through leaks or lawsuits. But the signs keep piling up.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The use of work-surveillance technology took off during the pandemic. As many people started working remotely, more employers began surveilling their teams in new ways: tracking keyboard strokes, taking screenshots and monitoring pauses. According to The New York Times, by 2022, \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/08/14/business/worker-productivity-tracking.html\">eight of the 10 biggest private employers\u003c/a> in the United States were tracking the productivity metrics of individual workers.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260317-KAISER-RETREATS-MD-09-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12076763\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260317-KAISER-RETREATS-MD-09-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260317-KAISER-RETREATS-MD-09-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260317-KAISER-RETREATS-MD-09-KQED-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The Kaiser Permanente building at 1800 Harrison (center-top) in Oakland on March 16, 2026. (Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Workers in a wide variety of industries, Hansen said, “are facing consequences due to productivity expectations or due to systems that don’t reasonably take into consideration key factors of their workplaces and work situations, which we as humans are able to assess.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As it moved through the legislature last session, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12097632/chatbots-data-centers-and-surveillance-5-silicon-valley-bills-land-on-newsoms-desk\">AB 1883\u003c/a> faced opposition among business-friendly interests. The California Chamber of Commerce, for example, said in a letter to lawmakers that the bill would open employers up to litigation over what the phrase “emotional state” means. The Chamber also said that the ban could sweep in AI security systems that detect agitation or aggression, tools some employers adopted to comply with a 2023 state law requiring workplace violence prevention plans.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">California lawmakers aren’t the only ones to consider legislating limits on bossware. The European Union, for instance, has banned emotion recognition at work since 2025. But similar bills specifically seeking to regulate the use of AI to detect worker emotion died this year in Minnesota, New York and Washington. A broader Massachusetts bill limiting workplace monitoring stalled in committee. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">California’s bills “took some hits in the committee process,” said Hansen, the East Bay Alliance for a Sustainable Economy deputy research director, referring to the compromises made to get the proposals through the legislature and signed by the governor. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What can pass in Sacramento, she said, is different from what can pass locally. “So while we’re thrilled to see this foundation at the state level, we also know that there’s a lot more to be done for actual robust protections for workers, and so we’re looking to move those on the local level, across the state.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Hansen did not name a Bay Area city or county that has agreed to take up such a measure. None appears to have done so, although Santa Clara County supervisors voted in March to study AI use across county departments, and San José’s largest city employee union has sought limits on AI in contract talks with the city.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The People’s Technology Coalition, which includes the San José nonprofit Working Partnerships USA, held its launch at San José City Hall in September. Hansen said the coalition plans to start with public employers, because cities can act both as employers — setting rules for their own workforce and the technology they buy — and as regulators of private employers within their limits. “It’s both the city as an employer and also the city as a regulatory body,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In the meantime, tech companies are pouring some of the largest private investments in history into AI built to automate work. Zaller, the employment attorney, is doubtful regulation will stop the use of bossware altogether.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“The Pandora’s box is open. It’s here,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "Is Math a Canary in the AI Coal Mine? (with Bryna Kra)",
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"content": "\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003ca href=\"#Transcript\">View Full Episode Transcript\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What happens when AI can produce a mathematical proof before any human understands it? And what does that mean for the rest of us?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Northwestern mathematician \u003ca href=\"https://www.math.northwestern.edu/people/faculty/bryna-kra.html\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>, a former president of the American Mathematical Society, joins host Jess Love to explore how AI is changing mathematical discovery. Generative AI has already brought about extraordinary breakthroughs, but its use is also unsettling the culture of collaboration, upending how young mathematicians learn, and raising a deceptively difficult question: is solving a problem the same as understanding it?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Kra explains why some mathematicians are becoming wary of sharing unfinished ideas and how she cautiously makes space for AI in her own research. Despite the disruption she still enthusiastically encourages students to enter the field.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Life, Automated is a production of the Ryan Institute on Complexity, at Northwestern’s Kellogg School of Management. The host is Jess Love, senior director. Distributed by \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/lifeautomated\">KQED\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Further Reading:\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003ca href=\"https://terrytao.wordpress.com/2026/09/13/deep-theorems-were-scarce-and-difficult-and-so-became-an-effective-mechanism-to-identify-deep-thought-ai-has-broken-this-system/\">Deep theorems were scarce and difficult and so became an effective mechanism to identify deep thought. AI has broken this system\u003c/a>. Bryna Kra, \u003ca href=\"http://terrytao.wordpress.com/\">TerryTao.wordpress.com\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.science.org/content/article/how-ai-math-breakthrough-ignited-controversy?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F\">How an AI math breakthrough ignited a controversy\u003c/a>. Celina Zhao and Adrian Cho, \u003cem>Science.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 id=\"Transcript\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Episode Transcript:\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> This is Life, Automated, the show where we explore what it means to live, work, and make decisions in a world increasingly shaped by machines. Bryna Kra is a mathematician here at Northwestern University, where I work. She’s the real deal. She’s been elected to the prestigious National Academy of Sciences and spent a few years as president of the American Mathematical Society.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And she works on the kinds of math problems that are nothing like what you saw in high school. They’re weird problems, heady problems, like Nivat’s conjecture, which basically says, bear with me here, that if you have an infinite 2D grid, like an infinitely large floor with square tiles, and no matter where you look on that floor, the local patterns have surprisingly little variety, then the entire floor must repeat itself, at least in one direction.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you’re not totally following why, don’t worry. These kinds of problems can take decades to solve. Someone will put forth a conjecture, and then a bunch of mathematicians or teams of mathematicians will work together to solve bits and pieces of the problem. And as of a few months ago, Bryna was one of the mathematicians who’d done just this.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Along with a coauthor, she’d put forth one of the major partial results for Nivat’s conjecture. And then, this September, everything changed. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> So starting a few weeks ago when there were new models released by the AI companies, those of us who’d worked on it began to receive proofs. And the proofs came from people who none of us knew. That’s great. You know, mathematicians tend to welcome new people into the field. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> But there was something unsettling about these proofs. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Well, they were very bad at tracing where the results came from. You know, what they were using from previous results. They didn’t highlight what was novel, which when you come to a breakthrough, you really want to write in the introduction, “This is what’s new.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Right. It was like missing the big story. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Yeah. It’s sort of putting everything on equal footing. And they seem to be correct. The problem is solved, but without any understanding of what was going into it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> Bryna wanted to talk to the mathematicians behind the proof.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> I wrote back to these people, and I asked, you know, “Would you like to meet and explain the proof?” There was always a reason why not. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> And Bryna came to suspect that the mathematicians couldn’t explain the proof because they didn’t really understand it because, well, it sure looked like they had gotten AI to just do it all for them.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> One of them disclosed full AI use. That’s fine. You know, they disclosed what they did. They said they were undergraduates who didn’t really know much math. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> Now, Bryna thinks there is some value in knowing that the conjecture can, in fact, be proven, some satisfaction even. But mostly she seems to think of it as a missed opportunity to actually understand something new, gain a tool, a new technique, a new way into the next problem.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because for a long time, this is what solving a proof meant. It meant you now understood something you didn’t before. And the Watts conjecture was hardly the biggest mathematical story of September. OpenAI announced that its models had solved one of the field’s crown jewels, the Navier-Stokes problem. On today’s episode, I speak with Bryna Kra about how AI is rocking the math world.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And even if you don’t care about math, maybe you still have PTSD from Algebra 2, Bryna argues you should still care about what is happening here, because today AI can put forth solutions to problems that have long stumped the field’s best and brightest, all without a single human ever reading or understanding that solution, which means while AI might be solving a bunch of problems, we humans might not be really learning very much, all while destroying the ecosystem that has long led to new discoveries.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So what does this mean for the future of math, for the humans who’ve devoted their lives to doing it, for the next generation of humans who are still learning it? And how does that apply to other intellectual pursuits? Because what happens in math doesn’t stay in math.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This is Life, Automated, a project from Kellogg’s Ryan Institute on Complexity, distributed by KQED. I started by asking Bryna about why OpenAI’s solving of the Navier-Stokes problem is such a big deal. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> So this problem is one of the millennium problems, which was posed in 2000 with a million dollars prize for each of them. There are seven millennium problems, only up till now, only one had been solved. That was by a human. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Thanks for clarifying. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> And some time ago. And the others were open, and they really guide the community in what directions we’re going to do research. So it’s about more than just solving the problems. It’s about understanding the methods, understanding stopping places along the way, partial results. It’s a much bigger picture than just solving this problem. What happened in early September was that they announced the solution, and it was immediately filled with controversy. There were some mathematicians who were working on it using AI, fully disclosed that they were using AI to work on it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And they had made significant progress, and there were a lot of questions immediately as to how the results from OpenAI were released, what access they had to what the mathematicians had been doing, was it independent, and how this was a complete change in the norms of the field. Mathematics typically is slow. We check each other’s work. We share results even along the way, partial, and this was just a very different way of doing math. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> Part of what makes it different is that apparently OpenAI rushed to solve the problem after learning that two mathematicians, including one associated with Anthropic, its big corporate rival, were close to a breakthrough. This is according to a published account by NYU mathematician Tristan Buckmaster, one of the collaborators. OpenAI apparently decided they wanted to beat the team to the punch and diverted massive computing resources, including thousands of AI agents, to solving the problem. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> This is turning math into a competition in a way that it never has. Our community, the math community, has for ages been a very collaborative place, a place where we share our results before they are published. We put them on the archive, which is an open registry for this, where people can upload the results even before they’ve been reviewed by journals for publication by referees. We have an extremely rigorous refereeing policy, and this was just a completely different way to do it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Yeah, so it’s almost destabilizing for several different reasons. There’s the sense that, “oh my gosh, it actually solved this problem.” Like, but then there’s also the sense that it’s being used potentially to impress investors, to get them to pour more money into some of these companies. And so you’re taking these problems, and instead of letting them be guideposts to where mathematicians can orient their own efforts, it’s taking that and using it for something, like hijacking it for a completely different purpose. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Correct. There’s a complete misalignment in the interests of the AI companies and the interests of the mathematical community. For the AI companies, this is a way to benchmark, to show their investors that they have done something hard. Right. Most people agree math is hard. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Yes. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> So this is one way that they can show that they’ve really achieved something that the humans did not do, that they’ve gone beyond what humans were capable of. For the math community, our incentives are quite different. Of course, we wanna solve problems, and I think most mathematicians would agree it’s amazing that these problems have been solved, and we’re all delighted to see that these problems are solved. But it goes well beyond just solving problems. We wanna understand what the solutions are and what they tell us and what they give us as guideposts for future research and future directions.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> I wanted to know how Bryna would compare these discoveries in math to those in, say, drug development, where the goal seems like it should be to discover as much as possible as quickly as possible. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> So we love to discover. Mathematicians love to uncover new, deep results. This is great. But there isn’t the same pressure to hurry the discoveries out. Let’s say the solutions in Navier-Stokes had come out a month later, giving the humans time to finish writing up their portions, the humans involved in the discovery that led to the huge breakthroughs by OpenAI, to write up their part and carefully explain it to the community and finish their work versus coming out exactly as it did under pressure in a tweet, in a press release. This… Math is not done by tweet or press release. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">On the other hand, had OpenAI come up with a cure for cancer, the rush to announce it, to share it with the world, I think is completely understandable. This is just a very different culture of how math is done and the immediate importance of the result versus something like a drug company.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> This point about the immediate importance of a mathematical result versus, say, a cure for cancer is really worth spending a bit of time with, because as abstract and frankly out there as some of these problems sound infinite grids, they really can lead to these enormous breakthroughs; but the breakthroughs don’t just follow from the solution. They come from understanding that occurs along the way. Solutions need to be absorbed, mulled, and picked apart, and mulled again, and the normal pace of math has always allowed for that because what’s the rush? The practical uses from these breakthroughs when they do occur could be decades away. Techniques developed by the mathematician Joseph Fourier two hundred years ago help to power medical imaging today. Or here’s another example.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Well, you probably use your credit card online, all the time.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> I do, too much. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Behind that is deep number theory that was developed, some of it 100 years ago, some of it 50 years ago, and some of it is still being developed. Number theory is about the positive integers and their properties, like the numbers one, two, three, four, five, and so on, and what kind of properties they have. But inside that study of number theory, there were these tools that were developed that allow the encryption that allows you to use your credit card securely and most of the time without getting the number stolen, right? So, so that is a tool that was developed for the sake of understanding- \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"> \u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> How fascinating … \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> …And yet it gets used every day all the time now. So we don’t know all of the applications that are coming out of the foundational research that is happening in mathematics, and we cannot predict that. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> Bryna’s fear is that reams of AI-generated proofs hitting the field all at once will lead to little actual understanding, fewer new tools and insights, all while discouraging human mathematicians from continuing their own investigations into these conjectures.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> What it did is close off this area. What’s the incentive now for somebody to go through and understand that? Unless it’s gonna lead somewhere new. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> Bryna thinks that simply having AI systems that can solve, and maybe in their own way understand the math behind a proof, isn’t adequate. We need humans to understand the math in order to keep directing the field, keep inquiring. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And she does see some ways of using AI that could bring that about. In these cases, the AI follows the human’s lead, helps them follow their own intuition and curiosity to discover new things, rather than AI just doing everything and leaving humans to deal with the aftermath. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong>So, I have started using it to explore new directions. I use it if there’s something I’m reading and I don’t understand. It’s a fantastic way to ask it, like, “Explain how you get from this statement to that statement.” It’s really good at that. Or, “Explain where this comes from, this idea.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And if you ask it to go search for an idea, because I like to understand where the ideas come from, it’s actually very good. It says, “Well, there seems to be something similar in this paper from 10 years ago, and another one from 20 years ago,” that I would probably not have found. I’ve started using it to code up things. And it can write computer programs and execute computer programs for me, and test thousands of examples in a way that would take me months, if not years to do.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This is not just saying, “Solve this problem.” You direct it. You say, “Well, now explore that direction, because that’s interesting.” And that’s where the human understanding of what’s going on in the math is super important, because many of us know things that cannot work for some reason, or are not the right direction to search, and it might be an intuition or it might be an actual math fact.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But we can direct it to look in these areas because we have spent so much time thinking about these problems. And so we can really guide the AI to help us look, here’s where you might be thinking about a technique, a tool, an approach, or a counterexample. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> So even as there’s more human-machine collaboration, do you wonder what will happen to human-human collaboration? And I just kept thinking that the second you present one of these partial results where you’re kinda like, “Hey, we got to this new point in the road,” does it then just trigger a bunch of AI-enabled mathematicians? Or maybe forget the mathematician, just AI-enabled AI to go ahead and solve the rest. Does it make it less likely to want to discuss the things that you are learning along the way?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Yeah, so this is exactly one of the issues that the field is grappling with now, that it’s a complete change in our culture. A year ago when I gave a talk at a conference, I would always pepper it with open questions and other directions of research because I would be delighted if someone in the audience would go and work on those and come back to me and say, “Hey, you asked this question, and I came up with this answer. Can we discuss?” Or if they write it on their own, either of these things would be delicious and wonderful. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Right. Right. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> This is now complete change. If you go and you pose a problem as part of a natural open, you know, next direction that you are thinking about, and you don’t know the audience, and there’s somebody there who wants to just take it and put it in AI, of course, they’re welcome to do that. But if it’s a problem, for example, that I want to work on or that I want one of my students to work on, this is now a very dangerous thing to do. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Yeah. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> So it has destroyed the trust that the community has in other people because there are people there who are just wanting to take it and put all the problems into AI and keep moving forward.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That cultural norm of openness and sharing has really been destroyed in an instant, and I really hope we find a way to go back to that because it is one of the things that made mathematics such an amazing place to be. The community is a great bunch of people that shared and worked together in the collaborative environment, and if we destroy that, then I think we will really have destroyed the role of human mathematicians.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">On the other hand, there are many of us fighting hard to keep that. This can be local. We have a local seminar, working group, which has about 10 to 15 people each week, and we have all agreed that nothing goes into AI… unless the speaker agrees. So nobody will be doing that in our local group, and we all trust each other. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think people have to come with those types of agreements, with their collaborators. There are different types of collaborations, and whether or not you include AI, put the problems in or not, that is something every collaborator needs to discuss.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> Different agreements, tortured discussions about when and how AI will be used and disclosed. People genuinely afraid to present their results at conferences because analyses that would have taken months can be done in hours, making the likelihood of getting scooped that much higher. This sounds very familiar because I’m seeing this play out in so many academic disciplines.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Working at a university, I have a front row seat to the ways different fields, different subfields, different individuals are approaching this moment. I walk through campus and can feel the undercurrent of shock and wariness and excitement and anxiety. I can hear an entire lecture hall hush as everyone reckons with the magnitude of the changes that are coming, changes that may already be here now that the work of knowledge production no longer happens at human scale.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And it’s not just academia. This is happening wherever ideas are generated and codified and shared with others. AI is coding up complex software and designing sophisticated marketing campaigns and writing prize-winning literature. It’s just that it’s all happening so clearly in mathematics with like actual proofs attached.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In a recent blog post, Bryna described her field as, “a canary in the coal mine.” We discuss after the break.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> So one of the things that really caught my attention in your blog post about recent events is that you mentioned that AI’s abilities in mathematics are a bit of a “canary in the coal mine” for a lot of different disciplines. Can you say more about what you mean? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Right. So the issues that mathematics is dealing with right now are not going to stay just a problem for mathematicians. It is already happening in theoretical computer science, which, you know, is part of math in some way, another close field. But I do not believe that it will stay there. I think it will come for all intellectual fields. It’s coming for law already. I think people understand how much the AI can actually absorb case law and produce what read and look like briefs. And so I see no reason why it won’t develop for other ones as it gets better. Math was first in some way because our training data was so excellent and because it was such a good proving ground for the companies to benchmark of what they’re doing.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But, I think it’s naive to think that it will stop with math and theoretical computer science and law. Fields will need to decide what their values are, which ones they want to keep with the changes, it can’t be all because they won’t all get kept, and then figure out the ways to implement keeping those.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So what steps does the field take to make sure that their values are still there at the end of this AI revolution? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Right, which might involve really at the core making sure that the incentives of the broader field are in some way aligned with the incentives of individuals. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Correct. Right now, we have a complete misalignment on many levels. We have a misalignment between what the AI companies want from mathematics and what mathematicians want. We have a misalignment between the ways we use mathematical results to judge people and what can be produced now, making it very hard to judge people. So the math community is grappling with these issues.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Right now, there’s recently a report that came out of a group, there was a conference at Harvard on the future of the PhD in mathematics. Mathematicians are deeply concerned about how we will train the next generation because we really do believe that this is a time, if anything, for more mathematical input and more mathematical insight, the human type, not just the AI type.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And if we have cut ourselves off at the knees and don’t have a way to train the next generation, how will we have that? So there’s great concern on this. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Right, because you might be, instead of relying on a PhD student or two to assist you with your research, it can be very tempting to go to AI. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Well, no, I think it’s a different issue.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Okay. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> In mathematics, it’s quite different than the lab sciences. PhD students typically don’t assist us with our research, but rather it’s the opposite. We kinda give them, at the beginning, things that we sort of know how to do, maybe not the details- certainly not all the details, but that we see the path forward.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There’s a lot of work to do, and they gotta go do the work themselves. But we kinda see that. That’s how we start training them. And then after they’ve worked on such a problem, we help them explore new directions so they find their own way- to find their own problem that they can do, and we still help them.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> And so how does… Can you just flesh out how AI disrupts that? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> The AI disrupts this completely. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I’d love to hear how. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Completely, because that first problem that we sort of see the path, and it’s missing some hard work. Every problem I can come up with like that, if I were to put it into the AI, it would just give me the solution.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There’s a big difference between coming up with it on your own, and therefore having to do the work, the pen and paper work, and actually reading somebody else’s. And we are trying to exactly train them to do that, the difference between reading and understanding something that you get from elsewhere, and being able to develop it yourself and writing it up.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> I see. So it’s almost like the types of problems that a PhD student would even be able, like a new PhD student would be able to handle, are the exact types of problems that AI can one-shot. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Correct. So I think we have to change our training programs. We have to train the students more to think about how do we go outside the box? What are the right questions to be asking about this, rather than just getting them from their advisor, “Here’s a good question to ask.” Because it’s, it- that’s a skill that we have not had to develop as early in a student’s training. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Would you still advise a student who is very interested in mathematics to go into the field?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> So to me, somebody who’s interested in mathematics, the answer is yes. Absolutely, resoundingly yes. I spoke to some students and I said to them, “You know, I’d like to think about it this way. The first, few lines of, ‘A Tale of Two Cities’ – \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Right. And so in some sense, in mathematics, it was, this is the best of times. We’re going to see huge conjectures fall. We’re going to see new understanding of areas that we couldn’t have possibly hoped to understand 10 years ago. This is amazing, and for a student to be at the forefront of that and really in that, great. The part that is the worst of times is that we need to completely adapt and do it really quickly of how we’re doing this.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So it’s gonna be a turbulent time, so that’s gonna be complicated. But I think the community is working hard to do that, to ensure that there are jobs for the next generation, to ensure that we have a way to train the next generation, and to meet the need because I think we need more mathematicians right now.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We don’t want AI systems that we can’t understand at all on any level. The math that developed these systems now needs to be turned towards developing safety for these systems. There are new uses of math that are coming, and so yeah, in some sense it is the best of times for mathematics.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. It was the age of falling conjectures. It was the age of new conjectures rising. It was the epoch of dauntingly capable AI systems transforming math. It was the epoch of new kinds of math desperately needed to make these systems safe. It was the season of human irrelevance.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It was the season of humans reasserting themselves, reminding everyone who this is all supposed to be for. I feel this all so much. Maybe you do too, because right now it seems true for a lot of fields. Take my own world of science communication. I’ve spent 15 years trying to become excellent at my work, making complex ideas accessible and helping others do the same, and the truth is, AI can do this really well now at superhuman scale, at least the technical parts of it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I got into this work because I felt it was important, so on some level, an on-demand complexity demystifying machine that everyone can use is amazing. It is the best of times. But on another level, it feels terrible. Will another generation of science writers even bother learning this craft? Will they be able to connect human to human to the people they’re doing this for? What is the role for humans in these kinds of intellectual pursuits? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> So we talked about the difference earlier between discoveries in math versus, say, cancer research, drugs development. I wanna bring a different discipline into the mix, art. With art, the process is the point. So fully AI-generated art is certainly already having commercial uses, but it’s hard to imagine it ever fully replacing human-generated art because how art is done, by whom, when, why, all of these things, like, that’s the ballgame with art.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That’s why we still love oil paintings even though we have cameras. That’s why my eight-year-old will draw a squiggle and I will love it, but it will have zero market value, and then Picasso will draw a squiggle and it has… You know, I might also love it, but it will also have market value. So there seems to be an interesting continuum, a different one, between disciplines where the outcome is really what matters, and disciplines where the process is what matters.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> What do you think of this way of thinking about it, and how would math fit into that? So I’m an optimist about the future of mathematics. I believe that the human role will continue, and it will remain key. And, one can do exactly like AI-generated art. There’s a lot of AI-generated math out there. And it’s overwhelming the community because who’s gonna read it all? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Yeah. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> And who’s gonna check it all, and who’s gonna use it all? But it still seems to me that the role for human understanding and human use of this mathematics is extremely important for many of the same reasons.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">See, we get to decide what are the interesting directions for research. We get to decide what are the interesting questions that we want answered. I don’t think anyone knows now if the AI companies will reach superhuman intelligence in mathematics. Maybe they will, but I find it hard to believe that even with superhuman intelligence of problem-solving, that the AIs will develop the same interest of what we find interesting, and what are the right directions to search. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In this sense, it’s very different than, something like the game of ‘Go’, which an AI is just simply better at- and developed new – \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Chess.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra: \u003c/strong> ‘Go’, ‘Chess’. Coming up with the next direction, what’s the next interesting thing, to me seems unbounded in a way that is quite different from those games. And so for this reason, I really believe that there will be a human role in the future. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Questions, asking the right questions, and going in the right directions may become a new proxy for the field for judging things. I don’t know. But it’s certainly much more important than it has been in the past.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There were always the people who were great at posing questions. Erdős is a famous mathematician who had thousands of publications and thousands of co-authors because he was so good at posing questions all over the place, and his influence is seen in so many parts of mathematics now.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so many applications outside of math. You know, questions he posed relate to sphere packing, and sphere packing relates to how your cell phone works in a crowded room, for example. And his ability to pose questions was not the same as his ability maybe to build theories and prove things.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So I think this role for humans continues as to posing questions and building theories and finding what we think is interesting. To me, that doesn’t change with AI. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Well, thank you so much for chatting with me today. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Thank you. It was really a delight to talk with you.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> For fun, here’s our credits in the form of a mathematical proof. Let Jess Love be your host. Given Life, Automated is a project of the Ryan Institute on Complexity at the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University. Assume distribution by KQED. This assumption is justified by the fact that we are distributed by KQED.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">By the combined efforts of Jesse Dukes and Tom Dixon, the show was produced. Add music by Steven Jackson and recording assistance from Will Feeney and George Christensen. To extend our results to a wider audience, apply the marketing efforts of Ananya Mallapragada and Lauren Ko. We acknowledge Laura Pavin and Rob Mitchum, whose contributions merit special thanks, though the full demonstration is omitted here for reasons of space.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Therefore, this episode exists. Whether you understood it is left as an exercise for the listener.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>What happens when AI can produce a mathematical proof before any human understands it? And what does that mean for the rest of us?\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Northwestern mathematician \u003ca href=\"https://www.math.northwestern.edu/people/faculty/bryna-kra.html\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>, a former president of the American Mathematical Society, joins host Jess Love to explore how AI is changing mathematical discovery. Generative AI has already brought about extraordinary breakthroughs, but its use is also unsettling the culture of collaboration, upending how young mathematicians learn, and raising a deceptively difficult question: is solving a problem the same as understanding it?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Northwestern mathematician \u003ca href=\"https://www.math.northwestern.edu/people/faculty/bryna-kra.html\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>, a former president of the American Mathematical Society, joins host Jess Love to explore how AI is changing mathematical discovery. Generative AI has already brought about extraordinary breakthroughs, but its use is also unsettling the culture of collaboration, upending how young mathematicians learn, and raising a deceptively difficult question: is solving a problem the same as understanding it?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Kra explains why some mathematicians are becoming wary of sharing unfinished ideas and how she cautiously makes space for AI in her own research. Despite the disruption she still enthusiastically encourages students to enter the field.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Kra explains why some mathematicians are becoming wary of sharing unfinished ideas and how she cautiously makes space for AI in her own research. Despite the disruption she still enthusiastically encourages students to enter the field.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Life, Automated is a production of the Ryan Institute on Complexity, at Northwestern’s Kellogg School of Management. The host is Jess Love, senior director. Distributed by \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/lifeautomated\">KQED\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Life, Automated is a production of the Ryan Institute on Complexity, at Northwestern’s Kellogg School of Management. The host is Jess Love, senior director. Distributed by \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/lifeautomated\">KQED\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://terrytao.wordpress.com/2026/09/13/deep-theorems-were-scarce-and-difficult-and-so-became-an-effective-mechanism-to-identify-deep-thought-ai-has-broken-this-system/\">Deep theorems were scarce and difficult and so became an effective mechanism to identify deep thought. AI has broken this system\u003c/a>. Bryna Kra, \u003ca href=\"http://terrytao.wordpress.com/\">TerryTao.wordpress.com\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://terrytao.wordpress.com/2026/09/13/deep-theorems-were-scarce-and-difficult-and-so-became-an-effective-mechanism-to-identify-deep-thought-ai-has-broken-this-system/\">Deep theorems were scarce and difficult and so became an effective mechanism to identify deep thought. AI has broken this system\u003c/a>. Bryna Kra, \u003ca href=\"http://terrytao.wordpress.com/\">TerryTao.wordpress.com\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.science.org/content/article/how-ai-math-breakthrough-ignited-controversy?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F\">How an AI math breakthrough ignited a controversy\u003c/a>. Celina Zhao and Adrian Cho, \u003cem>Science.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.science.org/content/article/how-ai-math-breakthrough-ignited-controversy?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F\">How an AI math breakthrough ignited a controversy\u003c/a>. Celina Zhao and Adrian Cho, \u003cem>Science.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> This is Life, Automated, the show where we explore what it means to live, work, and make decisions in a world increasingly shaped by machines. Bryna Kra is a mathematician here at Northwestern University, where I work. She’s the real deal. She’s been elected to the prestigious National Academy of Sciences and spent a few years as president of the American Mathematical Society.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> This is Life, Automated, the show where we explore what it means to live, work, and make decisions in a world increasingly shaped by machines. Bryna Kra is a mathematician here at Northwestern University, where I work. She’s the real deal. She’s been elected to the prestigious National Academy of Sciences and spent a few years as president of the American Mathematical Society.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>And she works on the kinds of math problems that are nothing like what you saw in high school. They’re weird problems, heady problems, like Nivat’s conjecture, which basically says, bear with me here, that if you have an infinite 2D grid, like an infinitely large floor with square tiles, and no matter where you look on that floor, the local patterns have surprisingly little variety, then the entire floor must repeat itself, at least in one direction.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>And she works on the kinds of math problems that are nothing like what you saw in high school. They’re weird problems, heady problems, like Nivat’s conjecture, which basically says, bear with me here, that if you have an infinite 2D grid, like an infinitely large floor with square tiles, and no matter where you look on that floor, the local patterns have surprisingly little variety, then the entire floor must repeat itself, at least in one direction.\u003c/p>\n"
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"\n\u003cp>If you’re not totally following why, don’t worry. These kinds of problems can take decades to solve. Someone will put forth a conjecture, and then a bunch of mathematicians or teams of mathematicians will work together to solve bits and pieces of the problem. And as of a few months ago, Bryna was one of the mathematicians who’d done just this.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Along with a coauthor, she’d put forth one of the major partial results for Nivat’s conjecture. And then, this September, everything changed. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> So starting a few weeks ago when there were new models released by the AI companies, those of us who’d worked on it began to receive proofs. And the proofs came from people who none of us knew. That’s great. You know, mathematicians tend to welcome new people into the field. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> So starting a few weeks ago when there were new models released by the AI companies, those of us who’d worked on it began to receive proofs. And the proofs came from people who none of us knew. That’s great. You know, mathematicians tend to welcome new people into the field. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> But there was something unsettling about these proofs. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Well, they were very bad at tracing where the results came from. You know, what they were using from previous results. They didn’t highlight what was novel, which when you come to a breakthrough, you really want to write in the introduction, “This is what’s new.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Well, they were very bad at tracing where the results came from. You know, what they were using from previous results. They didn’t highlight what was novel, which when you come to a breakthrough, you really want to write in the introduction, “This is what’s new.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Right. It was like missing the big story. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Yeah. It’s sort of putting everything on equal footing. And they seem to be correct. The problem is solved, but without any understanding of what was going into it.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Yeah. It’s sort of putting everything on equal footing. And they seem to be correct. The problem is solved, but without any understanding of what was going into it.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> I wrote back to these people, and I asked, you know, “Would you like to meet and explain the proof?” There was always a reason why not. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> I wrote back to these people, and I asked, you know, “Would you like to meet and explain the proof?” There was always a reason why not. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> And Bryna came to suspect that the mathematicians couldn’t explain the proof because they didn’t really understand it because, well, it sure looked like they had gotten AI to just do it all for them.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> And Bryna came to suspect that the mathematicians couldn’t explain the proof because they didn’t really understand it because, well, it sure looked like they had gotten AI to just do it all for them.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> One of them disclosed full AI use. That’s fine. You know, they disclosed what they did. They said they were undergraduates who didn’t really know much math. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> One of them disclosed full AI use. That’s fine. You know, they disclosed what they did. They said they were undergraduates who didn’t really know much math. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> Now, Bryna thinks there is some value in knowing that the conjecture can, in fact, be proven, some satisfaction even. But mostly she seems to think of it as a missed opportunity to actually understand something new, gain a tool, a new technique, a new way into the next problem.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> Now, Bryna thinks there is some value in knowing that the conjecture can, in fact, be proven, some satisfaction even. But mostly she seems to think of it as a missed opportunity to actually understand something new, gain a tool, a new technique, a new way into the next problem.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Because for a long time, this is what solving a proof meant. It meant you now understood something you didn’t before. And the Watts conjecture was hardly the biggest mathematical story of September. OpenAI announced that its models had solved one of the field’s crown jewels, the Navier-Stokes problem. On today’s episode, I speak with Bryna Kra about how AI is rocking the math world.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Because for a long time, this is what solving a proof meant. It meant you now understood something you didn’t before. And the Watts conjecture was hardly the biggest mathematical story of September. OpenAI announced that its models had solved one of the field’s crown jewels, the Navier-Stokes problem. On today’s episode, I speak with Bryna Kra about how AI is rocking the math world.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>And even if you don’t care about math, maybe you still have PTSD from Algebra 2, Bryna argues you should still care about what is happening here, because today AI can put forth solutions to problems that have long stumped the field’s best and brightest, all without a single human ever reading or understanding that solution, which means while AI might be solving a bunch of problems, we humans might not be really learning very much, all while destroying the ecosystem that has long led to new discoveries.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>And even if you don’t care about math, maybe you still have PTSD from Algebra 2, Bryna argues you should still care about what is happening here, because today AI can put forth solutions to problems that have long stumped the field’s best and brightest, all without a single human ever reading or understanding that solution, which means while AI might be solving a bunch of problems, we humans might not be really learning very much, all while destroying the ecosystem that has long led to new discoveries.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>So what does this mean for the future of math, for the humans who’ve devoted their lives to doing it, for the next generation of humans who are still learning it? And how does that apply to other intellectual pursuits? Because what happens in math doesn’t stay in math.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>So what does this mean for the future of math, for the humans who’ve devoted their lives to doing it, for the next generation of humans who are still learning it? And how does that apply to other intellectual pursuits? Because what happens in math doesn’t stay in math.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>This is Life, Automated, a project from Kellogg’s Ryan Institute on Complexity, distributed by KQED. I started by asking Bryna about why OpenAI’s solving of the Navier-Stokes problem is such a big deal. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>This is Life, Automated, a project from Kellogg’s Ryan Institute on Complexity, distributed by KQED. I started by asking Bryna about why OpenAI’s solving of the Navier-Stokes problem is such a big deal. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> So this problem is one of the millennium problems, which was posed in 2000 with a million dollars prize for each of them. There are seven millennium problems, only up till now, only one had been solved. That was by a human. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> So this problem is one of the millennium problems, which was posed in 2000 with a million dollars prize for each of them. There are seven millennium problems, only up till now, only one had been solved. That was by a human. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Thanks for clarifying. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Thanks for clarifying. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> And some time ago. And the others were open, and they really guide the community in what directions we’re going to do research. So it’s about more than just solving the problems. It’s about understanding the methods, understanding stopping places along the way, partial results. It’s a much bigger picture than just solving this problem. What happened in early September was that they announced the solution, and it was immediately filled with controversy. There were some mathematicians who were working on it using AI, fully disclosed that they were using AI to work on it.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> And some time ago. And the others were open, and they really guide the community in what directions we’re going to do research. So it’s about more than just solving the problems. It’s about understanding the methods, understanding stopping places along the way, partial results. It’s a much bigger picture than just solving this problem. What happened in early September was that they announced the solution, and it was immediately filled with controversy. There were some mathematicians who were working on it using AI, fully disclosed that they were using AI to work on it.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>And they had made significant progress, and there were a lot of questions immediately as to how the results from OpenAI were released, what access they had to what the mathematicians had been doing, was it independent, and how this was a complete change in the norms of the field. Mathematics typically is slow. We check each other’s work. We share results even along the way, partial, and this was just a very different way of doing math. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>And they had made significant progress, and there were a lot of questions immediately as to how the results from OpenAI were released, what access they had to what the mathematicians had been doing, was it independent, and how this was a complete change in the norms of the field. Mathematics typically is slow. We check each other’s work. We share results even along the way, partial, and this was just a very different way of doing math. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> Part of what makes it different is that apparently OpenAI rushed to solve the problem after learning that two mathematicians, including one associated with Anthropic, its big corporate rival, were close to a breakthrough. This is according to a published account by NYU mathematician Tristan Buckmaster, one of the collaborators. OpenAI apparently decided they wanted to beat the team to the punch and diverted massive computing resources, including thousands of AI agents, to solving the problem. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> Part of what makes it different is that apparently OpenAI rushed to solve the problem after learning that two mathematicians, including one associated with Anthropic, its big corporate rival, were close to a breakthrough. This is according to a published account by NYU mathematician Tristan Buckmaster, one of the collaborators. OpenAI apparently decided they wanted to beat the team to the punch and diverted massive computing resources, including thousands of AI agents, to solving the problem. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> This is turning math into a competition in a way that it never has. Our community, the math community, has for ages been a very collaborative place, a place where we share our results before they are published. We put them on the archive, which is an open registry for this, where people can upload the results even before they’ve been reviewed by journals for publication by referees. We have an extremely rigorous refereeing policy, and this was just a completely different way to do it. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> This is turning math into a competition in a way that it never has. Our community, the math community, has for ages been a very collaborative place, a place where we share our results before they are published. We put them on the archive, which is an open registry for this, where people can upload the results even before they’ve been reviewed by journals for publication by referees. We have an extremely rigorous refereeing policy, and this was just a completely different way to do it. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Yeah, so it’s almost destabilizing for several different reasons. There’s the sense that, “oh my gosh, it actually solved this problem.” Like, but then there’s also the sense that it’s being used potentially to impress investors, to get them to pour more money into some of these companies. And so you’re taking these problems, and instead of letting them be guideposts to where mathematicians can orient their own efforts, it’s taking that and using it for something, like hijacking it for a completely different purpose. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Yeah, so it’s almost destabilizing for several different reasons. There’s the sense that, “oh my gosh, it actually solved this problem.” Like, but then there’s also the sense that it’s being used potentially to impress investors, to get them to pour more money into some of these companies. And so you’re taking these problems, and instead of letting them be guideposts to where mathematicians can orient their own efforts, it’s taking that and using it for something, like hijacking it for a completely different purpose. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Correct. There’s a complete misalignment in the interests of the AI companies and the interests of the mathematical community. For the AI companies, this is a way to benchmark, to show their investors that they have done something hard. Right. Most people agree math is hard. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Correct. There’s a complete misalignment in the interests of the AI companies and the interests of the mathematical community. For the AI companies, this is a way to benchmark, to show their investors that they have done something hard. Right. Most people agree math is hard. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Yes. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Yes. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> So this is one way that they can show that they’ve really achieved something that the humans did not do, that they’ve gone beyond what humans were capable of. For the math community, our incentives are quite different. Of course, we wanna solve problems, and I think most mathematicians would agree it’s amazing that these problems have been solved, and we’re all delighted to see that these problems are solved. But it goes well beyond just solving problems. We wanna understand what the solutions are and what they tell us and what they give us as guideposts for future research and future directions.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> So this is one way that they can show that they’ve really achieved something that the humans did not do, that they’ve gone beyond what humans were capable of. For the math community, our incentives are quite different. Of course, we wanna solve problems, and I think most mathematicians would agree it’s amazing that these problems have been solved, and we’re all delighted to see that these problems are solved. But it goes well beyond just solving problems. We wanna understand what the solutions are and what they tell us and what they give us as guideposts for future research and future directions.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> I wanted to know how Bryna would compare these discoveries in math to those in, say, drug development, where the goal seems like it should be to discover as much as possible as quickly as possible. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> I wanted to know how Bryna would compare these discoveries in math to those in, say, drug development, where the goal seems like it should be to discover as much as possible as quickly as possible. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> So we love to discover. Mathematicians love to uncover new, deep results. This is great. But there isn’t the same pressure to hurry the discoveries out. Let’s say the solutions in Navier-Stokes had come out a month later, giving the humans time to finish writing up their portions, the humans involved in the discovery that led to the huge breakthroughs by OpenAI, to write up their part and carefully explain it to the community and finish their work versus coming out exactly as it did under pressure in a tweet, in a press release. This… Math is not done by tweet or press release. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> So we love to discover. Mathematicians love to uncover new, deep results. This is great. But there isn’t the same pressure to hurry the discoveries out. Let’s say the solutions in Navier-Stokes had come out a month later, giving the humans time to finish writing up their portions, the humans involved in the discovery that led to the huge breakthroughs by OpenAI, to write up their part and carefully explain it to the community and finish their work versus coming out exactly as it did under pressure in a tweet, in a press release. This… Math is not done by tweet or press release. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>On the other hand, had OpenAI come up with a cure for cancer, the rush to announce it, to share it with the world, I think is completely understandable. This is just a very different culture of how math is done and the immediate importance of the result versus something like a drug company.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>On the other hand, had OpenAI come up with a cure for cancer, the rush to announce it, to share it with the world, I think is completely understandable. This is just a very different culture of how math is done and the immediate importance of the result versus something like a drug company.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> This point about the immediate importance of a mathematical result versus, say, a cure for cancer is really worth spending a bit of time with, because as abstract and frankly out there as some of these problems sound infinite grids, they really can lead to these enormous breakthroughs; but the breakthroughs don’t just follow from the solution. They come from understanding that occurs along the way. Solutions need to be absorbed, mulled, and picked apart, and mulled again, and the normal pace of math has always allowed for that because what’s the rush? The practical uses from these breakthroughs when they do occur could be decades away. Techniques developed by the mathematician Joseph Fourier two hundred years ago help to power medical imaging today. Or here’s another example.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> This point about the immediate importance of a mathematical result versus, say, a cure for cancer is really worth spending a bit of time with, because as abstract and frankly out there as some of these problems sound infinite grids, they really can lead to these enormous breakthroughs; but the breakthroughs don’t just follow from the solution. They come from understanding that occurs along the way. Solutions need to be absorbed, mulled, and picked apart, and mulled again, and the normal pace of math has always allowed for that because what’s the rush? The practical uses from these breakthroughs when they do occur could be decades away. Techniques developed by the mathematician Joseph Fourier two hundred years ago help to power medical imaging today. Or here’s another example.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Well, you probably use your credit card online, all the time.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Well, you probably use your credit card online, all the time.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> I do, too much. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> I do, too much. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Behind that is deep number theory that was developed, some of it 100 years ago, some of it 50 years ago, and some of it is still being developed. Number theory is about the positive integers and their properties, like the numbers one, two, three, four, five, and so on, and what kind of properties they have. But inside that study of number theory, there were these tools that were developed that allow the encryption that allows you to use your credit card securely and most of the time without getting the number stolen, right? So, so that is a tool that was developed for the sake of understanding- \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Behind that is deep number theory that was developed, some of it 100 years ago, some of it 50 years ago, and some of it is still being developed. Number theory is about the positive integers and their properties, like the numbers one, two, three, four, five, and so on, and what kind of properties they have. But inside that study of number theory, there were these tools that were developed that allow the encryption that allows you to use your credit card securely and most of the time without getting the number stolen, right? So, so that is a tool that was developed for the sake of understanding- \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp> \u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> How fascinating … \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp> \u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> How fascinating … \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> …And yet it gets used every day all the time now. So we don’t know all of the applications that are coming out of the foundational research that is happening in mathematics, and we cannot predict that. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> …And yet it gets used every day all the time now. So we don’t know all of the applications that are coming out of the foundational research that is happening in mathematics, and we cannot predict that. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> Bryna’s fear is that reams of AI-generated proofs hitting the field all at once will lead to little actual understanding, fewer new tools and insights, all while discouraging human mathematicians from continuing their own investigations into these conjectures.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> Bryna’s fear is that reams of AI-generated proofs hitting the field all at once will lead to little actual understanding, fewer new tools and insights, all while discouraging human mathematicians from continuing their own investigations into these conjectures.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> What it did is close off this area. What’s the incentive now for somebody to go through and understand that? Unless it’s gonna lead somewhere new. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> What it did is close off this area. What’s the incentive now for somebody to go through and understand that? Unless it’s gonna lead somewhere new. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> Bryna thinks that simply having AI systems that can solve, and maybe in their own way understand the math behind a proof, isn’t adequate. We need humans to understand the math in order to keep directing the field, keep inquiring. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> Bryna thinks that simply having AI systems that can solve, and maybe in their own way understand the math behind a proof, isn’t adequate. We need humans to understand the math in order to keep directing the field, keep inquiring. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>And she does see some ways of using AI that could bring that about. In these cases, the AI follows the human’s lead, helps them follow their own intuition and curiosity to discover new things, rather than AI just doing everything and leaving humans to deal with the aftermath. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>And she does see some ways of using AI that could bring that about. In these cases, the AI follows the human’s lead, helps them follow their own intuition and curiosity to discover new things, rather than AI just doing everything and leaving humans to deal with the aftermath. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong>So, I have started using it to explore new directions. I use it if there’s something I’m reading and I don’t understand. It’s a fantastic way to ask it, like, “Explain how you get from this statement to that statement.” It’s really good at that. Or, “Explain where this comes from, this idea.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong>So, I have started using it to explore new directions. I use it if there’s something I’m reading and I don’t understand. It’s a fantastic way to ask it, like, “Explain how you get from this statement to that statement.” It’s really good at that. Or, “Explain where this comes from, this idea.” \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>And if you ask it to go search for an idea, because I like to understand where the ideas come from, it’s actually very good. It says, “Well, there seems to be something similar in this paper from 10 years ago, and another one from 20 years ago,” that I would probably not have found. I’ve started using it to code up things. And it can write computer programs and execute computer programs for me, and test thousands of examples in a way that would take me months, if not years to do.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>And if you ask it to go search for an idea, because I like to understand where the ideas come from, it’s actually very good. It says, “Well, there seems to be something similar in this paper from 10 years ago, and another one from 20 years ago,” that I would probably not have found. I’ve started using it to code up things. And it can write computer programs and execute computer programs for me, and test thousands of examples in a way that would take me months, if not years to do.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>This is not just saying, “Solve this problem.” You direct it. You say, “Well, now explore that direction, because that’s interesting.” And that’s where the human understanding of what’s going on in the math is super important, because many of us know things that cannot work for some reason, or are not the right direction to search, and it might be an intuition or it might be an actual math fact.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>This is not just saying, “Solve this problem.” You direct it. You say, “Well, now explore that direction, because that’s interesting.” And that’s where the human understanding of what’s going on in the math is super important, because many of us know things that cannot work for some reason, or are not the right direction to search, and it might be an intuition or it might be an actual math fact.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>But we can direct it to look in these areas because we have spent so much time thinking about these problems. And so we can really guide the AI to help us look, here’s where you might be thinking about a technique, a tool, an approach, or a counterexample. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>But we can direct it to look in these areas because we have spent so much time thinking about these problems. And so we can really guide the AI to help us look, here’s where you might be thinking about a technique, a tool, an approach, or a counterexample. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> So even as there’s more human-machine collaboration, do you wonder what will happen to human-human collaboration? And I just kept thinking that the second you present one of these partial results where you’re kinda like, “Hey, we got to this new point in the road,” does it then just trigger a bunch of AI-enabled mathematicians? Or maybe forget the mathematician, just AI-enabled AI to go ahead and solve the rest. Does it make it less likely to want to discuss the things that you are learning along the way?\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Yeah, so this is exactly one of the issues that the field is grappling with now, that it’s a complete change in our culture. A year ago when I gave a talk at a conference, I would always pepper it with open questions and other directions of research because I would be delighted if someone in the audience would go and work on those and come back to me and say, “Hey, you asked this question, and I came up with this answer. Can we discuss?” Or if they write it on their own, either of these things would be delicious and wonderful. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Yeah, so this is exactly one of the issues that the field is grappling with now, that it’s a complete change in our culture. A year ago when I gave a talk at a conference, I would always pepper it with open questions and other directions of research because I would be delighted if someone in the audience would go and work on those and come back to me and say, “Hey, you asked this question, and I came up with this answer. Can we discuss?” Or if they write it on their own, either of these things would be delicious and wonderful. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Right. Right. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Right. Right. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> This is now complete change. If you go and you pose a problem as part of a natural open, you know, next direction that you are thinking about, and you don’t know the audience, and there’s somebody there who wants to just take it and put it in AI, of course, they’re welcome to do that. But if it’s a problem, for example, that I want to work on or that I want one of my students to work on, this is now a very dangerous thing to do. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> This is now complete change. If you go and you pose a problem as part of a natural open, you know, next direction that you are thinking about, and you don’t know the audience, and there’s somebody there who wants to just take it and put it in AI, of course, they’re welcome to do that. But if it’s a problem, for example, that I want to work on or that I want one of my students to work on, this is now a very dangerous thing to do. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Yeah. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> So it has destroyed the trust that the community has in other people because there are people there who are just wanting to take it and put all the problems into AI and keep moving forward.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> So it has destroyed the trust that the community has in other people because there are people there who are just wanting to take it and put all the problems into AI and keep moving forward.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>That cultural norm of openness and sharing has really been destroyed in an instant, and I really hope we find a way to go back to that because it is one of the things that made mathematics such an amazing place to be. The community is a great bunch of people that shared and worked together in the collaborative environment, and if we destroy that, then I think we will really have destroyed the role of human mathematicians.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>That cultural norm of openness and sharing has really been destroyed in an instant, and I really hope we find a way to go back to that because it is one of the things that made mathematics such an amazing place to be. The community is a great bunch of people that shared and worked together in the collaborative environment, and if we destroy that, then I think we will really have destroyed the role of human mathematicians.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>On the other hand, there are many of us fighting hard to keep that. This can be local. We have a local seminar, working group, which has about 10 to 15 people each week, and we have all agreed that nothing goes into AI… unless the speaker agrees. So nobody will be doing that in our local group, and we all trust each other. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>On the other hand, there are many of us fighting hard to keep that. This can be local. We have a local seminar, working group, which has about 10 to 15 people each week, and we have all agreed that nothing goes into AI… unless the speaker agrees. So nobody will be doing that in our local group, and we all trust each other. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>I think people have to come with those types of agreements, with their collaborators. There are different types of collaborations, and whether or not you include AI, put the problems in or not, that is something every collaborator needs to discuss.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>I think people have to come with those types of agreements, with their collaborators. There are different types of collaborations, and whether or not you include AI, put the problems in or not, that is something every collaborator needs to discuss.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> Different agreements, tortured discussions about when and how AI will be used and disclosed. People genuinely afraid to present their results at conferences because analyses that would have taken months can be done in hours, making the likelihood of getting scooped that much higher. This sounds very familiar because I’m seeing this play out in so many academic disciplines.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> Different agreements, tortured discussions about when and how AI will be used and disclosed. People genuinely afraid to present their results at conferences because analyses that would have taken months can be done in hours, making the likelihood of getting scooped that much higher. This sounds very familiar because I’m seeing this play out in so many academic disciplines.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Working at a university, I have a front row seat to the ways different fields, different subfields, different individuals are approaching this moment. I walk through campus and can feel the undercurrent of shock and wariness and excitement and anxiety. I can hear an entire lecture hall hush as everyone reckons with the magnitude of the changes that are coming, changes that may already be here now that the work of knowledge production no longer happens at human scale.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Working at a university, I have a front row seat to the ways different fields, different subfields, different individuals are approaching this moment. I walk through campus and can feel the undercurrent of shock and wariness and excitement and anxiety. I can hear an entire lecture hall hush as everyone reckons with the magnitude of the changes that are coming, changes that may already be here now that the work of knowledge production no longer happens at human scale.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>And it’s not just academia. This is happening wherever ideas are generated and codified and shared with others. AI is coding up complex software and designing sophisticated marketing campaigns and writing prize-winning literature. It’s just that it’s all happening so clearly in mathematics with like actual proofs attached.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>And it’s not just academia. This is happening wherever ideas are generated and codified and shared with others. AI is coding up complex software and designing sophisticated marketing campaigns and writing prize-winning literature. It’s just that it’s all happening so clearly in mathematics with like actual proofs attached.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In a recent blog post, Bryna described her field as, “a canary in the coal mine.” We discuss after the break.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>In a recent blog post, Bryna described her field as, “a canary in the coal mine.” We discuss after the break.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> So one of the things that really caught my attention in your blog post about recent events is that you mentioned that AI’s abilities in mathematics are a bit of a “canary in the coal mine” for a lot of different disciplines. Can you say more about what you mean? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> So one of the things that really caught my attention in your blog post about recent events is that you mentioned that AI’s abilities in mathematics are a bit of a “canary in the coal mine” for a lot of different disciplines. Can you say more about what you mean? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Right. So the issues that mathematics is dealing with right now are not going to stay just a problem for mathematicians. It is already happening in theoretical computer science, which, you know, is part of math in some way, another close field. But I do not believe that it will stay there. I think it will come for all intellectual fields. It’s coming for law already. I think people understand how much the AI can actually absorb case law and produce what read and look like briefs. And so I see no reason why it won’t develop for other ones as it gets better. Math was first in some way because our training data was so excellent and because it was such a good proving ground for the companies to benchmark of what they’re doing.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Right. So the issues that mathematics is dealing with right now are not going to stay just a problem for mathematicians. It is already happening in theoretical computer science, which, you know, is part of math in some way, another close field. But I do not believe that it will stay there. I think it will come for all intellectual fields. It’s coming for law already. I think people understand how much the AI can actually absorb case law and produce what read and look like briefs. And so I see no reason why it won’t develop for other ones as it gets better. Math was first in some way because our training data was so excellent and because it was such a good proving ground for the companies to benchmark of what they’re doing.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>But, I think it’s naive to think that it will stop with math and theoretical computer science and law. Fields will need to decide what their values are, which ones they want to keep with the changes, it can’t be all because they won’t all get kept, and then figure out the ways to implement keeping those.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>But, I think it’s naive to think that it will stop with math and theoretical computer science and law. Fields will need to decide what their values are, which ones they want to keep with the changes, it can’t be all because they won’t all get kept, and then figure out the ways to implement keeping those.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>So what steps does the field take to make sure that their values are still there at the end of this AI revolution? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>So what steps does the field take to make sure that their values are still there at the end of this AI revolution? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Right, which might involve really at the core making sure that the incentives of the broader field are in some way aligned with the incentives of individuals. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Right, which might involve really at the core making sure that the incentives of the broader field are in some way aligned with the incentives of individuals. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Correct. Right now, we have a complete misalignment on many levels. We have a misalignment between what the AI companies want from mathematics and what mathematicians want. We have a misalignment between the ways we use mathematical results to judge people and what can be produced now, making it very hard to judge people. So the math community is grappling with these issues.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Correct. Right now, we have a complete misalignment on many levels. We have a misalignment between what the AI companies want from mathematics and what mathematicians want. We have a misalignment between the ways we use mathematical results to judge people and what can be produced now, making it very hard to judge people. So the math community is grappling with these issues.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Right now, there’s recently a report that came out of a group, there was a conference at Harvard on the future of the PhD in mathematics. Mathematicians are deeply concerned about how we will train the next generation because we really do believe that this is a time, if anything, for more mathematical input and more mathematical insight, the human type, not just the AI type.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Right now, there’s recently a report that came out of a group, there was a conference at Harvard on the future of the PhD in mathematics. Mathematicians are deeply concerned about how we will train the next generation because we really do believe that this is a time, if anything, for more mathematical input and more mathematical insight, the human type, not just the AI type.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>And if we have cut ourselves off at the knees and don’t have a way to train the next generation, how will we have that? So there’s great concern on this. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>And if we have cut ourselves off at the knees and don’t have a way to train the next generation, how will we have that? So there’s great concern on this. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Right, because you might be, instead of relying on a PhD student or two to assist you with your research, it can be very tempting to go to AI. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Right, because you might be, instead of relying on a PhD student or two to assist you with your research, it can be very tempting to go to AI. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Well, no, I think it’s a different issue.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Well, no, I think it’s a different issue.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Okay. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Okay. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> In mathematics, it’s quite different than the lab sciences. PhD students typically don’t assist us with our research, but rather it’s the opposite. We kinda give them, at the beginning, things that we sort of know how to do, maybe not the details- certainly not all the details, but that we see the path forward.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> In mathematics, it’s quite different than the lab sciences. PhD students typically don’t assist us with our research, but rather it’s the opposite. We kinda give them, at the beginning, things that we sort of know how to do, maybe not the details- certainly not all the details, but that we see the path forward.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>There’s a lot of work to do, and they gotta go do the work themselves. But we kinda see that. That’s how we start training them. And then after they’ve worked on such a problem, we help them explore new directions so they find their own way- to find their own problem that they can do, and we still help them.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>There’s a lot of work to do, and they gotta go do the work themselves. But we kinda see that. That’s how we start training them. And then after they’ve worked on such a problem, we help them explore new directions so they find their own way- to find their own problem that they can do, and we still help them.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> And so how does… Can you just flesh out how AI disrupts that? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> And so how does… Can you just flesh out how AI disrupts that? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> The AI disrupts this completely. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> The AI disrupts this completely. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I’d love to hear how. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I’d love to hear how. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Completely, because that first problem that we sort of see the path, and it’s missing some hard work. Every problem I can come up with like that, if I were to put it into the AI, it would just give me the solution.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Completely, because that first problem that we sort of see the path, and it’s missing some hard work. Every problem I can come up with like that, if I were to put it into the AI, it would just give me the solution.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>There’s a big difference between coming up with it on your own, and therefore having to do the work, the pen and paper work, and actually reading somebody else’s. And we are trying to exactly train them to do that, the difference between reading and understanding something that you get from elsewhere, and being able to develop it yourself and writing it up.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>There’s a big difference between coming up with it on your own, and therefore having to do the work, the pen and paper work, and actually reading somebody else’s. And we are trying to exactly train them to do that, the difference between reading and understanding something that you get from elsewhere, and being able to develop it yourself and writing it up.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> I see. So it’s almost like the types of problems that a PhD student would even be able, like a new PhD student would be able to handle, are the exact types of problems that AI can one-shot. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> I see. So it’s almost like the types of problems that a PhD student would even be able, like a new PhD student would be able to handle, are the exact types of problems that AI can one-shot. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Correct. So I think we have to change our training programs. We have to train the students more to think about how do we go outside the box? What are the right questions to be asking about this, rather than just getting them from their advisor, “Here’s a good question to ask.” Because it’s, it- that’s a skill that we have not had to develop as early in a student’s training. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Correct. So I think we have to change our training programs. We have to train the students more to think about how do we go outside the box? What are the right questions to be asking about this, rather than just getting them from their advisor, “Here’s a good question to ask.” Because it’s, it- that’s a skill that we have not had to develop as early in a student’s training. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Would you still advise a student who is very interested in mathematics to go into the field?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Would you still advise a student who is very interested in mathematics to go into the field?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> So to me, somebody who’s interested in mathematics, the answer is yes. Absolutely, resoundingly yes. I spoke to some students and I said to them, “You know, I’d like to think about it this way. The first, few lines of, ‘A Tale of Two Cities’ – \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> So to me, somebody who’s interested in mathematics, the answer is yes. Absolutely, resoundingly yes. I spoke to some students and I said to them, “You know, I’d like to think about it this way. The first, few lines of, ‘A Tale of Two Cities’ – \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.” \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Right. And so in some sense, in mathematics, it was, this is the best of times. We’re going to see huge conjectures fall. We’re going to see new understanding of areas that we couldn’t have possibly hoped to understand 10 years ago. This is amazing, and for a student to be at the forefront of that and really in that, great. The part that is the worst of times is that we need to completely adapt and do it really quickly of how we’re doing this.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Right. And so in some sense, in mathematics, it was, this is the best of times. We’re going to see huge conjectures fall. We’re going to see new understanding of areas that we couldn’t have possibly hoped to understand 10 years ago. This is amazing, and for a student to be at the forefront of that and really in that, great. The part that is the worst of times is that we need to completely adapt and do it really quickly of how we’re doing this.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>So it’s gonna be a turbulent time, so that’s gonna be complicated. But I think the community is working hard to do that, to ensure that there are jobs for the next generation, to ensure that we have a way to train the next generation, and to meet the need because I think we need more mathematicians right now.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>So it’s gonna be a turbulent time, so that’s gonna be complicated. But I think the community is working hard to do that, to ensure that there are jobs for the next generation, to ensure that we have a way to train the next generation, and to meet the need because I think we need more mathematicians right now.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>We don’t want AI systems that we can’t understand at all on any level. The math that developed these systems now needs to be turned towards developing safety for these systems. There are new uses of math that are coming, and so yeah, in some sense it is the best of times for mathematics.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>We don’t want AI systems that we can’t understand at all on any level. The math that developed these systems now needs to be turned towards developing safety for these systems. There are new uses of math that are coming, and so yeah, in some sense it is the best of times for mathematics.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. It was the age of falling conjectures. It was the age of new conjectures rising. It was the epoch of dauntingly capable AI systems transforming math. It was the epoch of new kinds of math desperately needed to make these systems safe. It was the season of human irrelevance.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. It was the age of falling conjectures. It was the age of new conjectures rising. It was the epoch of dauntingly capable AI systems transforming math. It was the epoch of new kinds of math desperately needed to make these systems safe. It was the season of human irrelevance.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>It was the season of humans reasserting themselves, reminding everyone who this is all supposed to be for. I feel this all so much. Maybe you do too, because right now it seems true for a lot of fields. Take my own world of science communication. I’ve spent 15 years trying to become excellent at my work, making complex ideas accessible and helping others do the same, and the truth is, AI can do this really well now at superhuman scale, at least the technical parts of it.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>It was the season of humans reasserting themselves, reminding everyone who this is all supposed to be for. I feel this all so much. Maybe you do too, because right now it seems true for a lot of fields. Take my own world of science communication. I’ve spent 15 years trying to become excellent at my work, making complex ideas accessible and helping others do the same, and the truth is, AI can do this really well now at superhuman scale, at least the technical parts of it.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>I got into this work because I felt it was important, so on some level, an on-demand complexity demystifying machine that everyone can use is amazing. It is the best of times. But on another level, it feels terrible. Will another generation of science writers even bother learning this craft? Will they be able to connect human to human to the people they’re doing this for? What is the role for humans in these kinds of intellectual pursuits? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>I got into this work because I felt it was important, so on some level, an on-demand complexity demystifying machine that everyone can use is amazing. It is the best of times. But on another level, it feels terrible. Will another generation of science writers even bother learning this craft? Will they be able to connect human to human to the people they’re doing this for? What is the role for humans in these kinds of intellectual pursuits? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> So we talked about the difference earlier between discoveries in math versus, say, cancer research, drugs development. I wanna bring a different discipline into the mix, art. With art, the process is the point. So fully AI-generated art is certainly already having commercial uses, but it’s hard to imagine it ever fully replacing human-generated art because how art is done, by whom, when, why, all of these things, like, that’s the ballgame with art.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> So we talked about the difference earlier between discoveries in math versus, say, cancer research, drugs development. I wanna bring a different discipline into the mix, art. With art, the process is the point. So fully AI-generated art is certainly already having commercial uses, but it’s hard to imagine it ever fully replacing human-generated art because how art is done, by whom, when, why, all of these things, like, that’s the ballgame with art.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>That’s why we still love oil paintings even though we have cameras. That’s why my eight-year-old will draw a squiggle and I will love it, but it will have zero market value, and then Picasso will draw a squiggle and it has… You know, I might also love it, but it will also have market value. So there seems to be an interesting continuum, a different one, between disciplines where the outcome is really what matters, and disciplines where the process is what matters.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>That’s why we still love oil paintings even though we have cameras. That’s why my eight-year-old will draw a squiggle and I will love it, but it will have zero market value, and then Picasso will draw a squiggle and it has… You know, I might also love it, but it will also have market value. So there seems to be an interesting continuum, a different one, between disciplines where the outcome is really what matters, and disciplines where the process is what matters.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> What do you think of this way of thinking about it, and how would math fit into that? So I’m an optimist about the future of mathematics. I believe that the human role will continue, and it will remain key. And, one can do exactly like AI-generated art. There’s a lot of AI-generated math out there. And it’s overwhelming the community because who’s gonna read it all? \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> What do you think of this way of thinking about it, and how would math fit into that? So I’m an optimist about the future of mathematics. I believe that the human role will continue, and it will remain key. And, one can do exactly like AI-generated art. There’s a lot of AI-generated math out there. And it’s overwhelming the community because who’s gonna read it all? \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Yeah. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> And who’s gonna check it all, and who’s gonna use it all? But it still seems to me that the role for human understanding and human use of this mathematics is extremely important for many of the same reasons.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> And who’s gonna check it all, and who’s gonna use it all? But it still seems to me that the role for human understanding and human use of this mathematics is extremely important for many of the same reasons.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>See, we get to decide what are the interesting directions for research. We get to decide what are the interesting questions that we want answered. I don’t think anyone knows now if the AI companies will reach superhuman intelligence in mathematics. Maybe they will, but I find it hard to believe that even with superhuman intelligence of problem-solving, that the AIs will develop the same interest of what we find interesting, and what are the right directions to search. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>See, we get to decide what are the interesting directions for research. We get to decide what are the interesting questions that we want answered. I don’t think anyone knows now if the AI companies will reach superhuman intelligence in mathematics. Maybe they will, but I find it hard to believe that even with superhuman intelligence of problem-solving, that the AIs will develop the same interest of what we find interesting, and what are the right directions to search. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In this sense, it’s very different than, something like the game of ‘Go’, which an AI is just simply better at- and developed new – \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>In this sense, it’s very different than, something like the game of ‘Go’, which an AI is just simply better at- and developed new – \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Chess.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra: \u003c/strong> ‘Go’, ‘Chess’. Coming up with the next direction, what’s the next interesting thing, to me seems unbounded in a way that is quite different from those games. And so for this reason, I really believe that there will be a human role in the future. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra: \u003c/strong> ‘Go’, ‘Chess’. Coming up with the next direction, what’s the next interesting thing, to me seems unbounded in a way that is quite different from those games. And so for this reason, I really believe that there will be a human role in the future. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Questions, asking the right questions, and going in the right directions may become a new proxy for the field for judging things. I don’t know. But it’s certainly much more important than it has been in the past.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Questions, asking the right questions, and going in the right directions may become a new proxy for the field for judging things. I don’t know. But it’s certainly much more important than it has been in the past.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>There were always the people who were great at posing questions. Erdős is a famous mathematician who had thousands of publications and thousands of co-authors because he was so good at posing questions all over the place, and his influence is seen in so many parts of mathematics now.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>There were always the people who were great at posing questions. Erdős is a famous mathematician who had thousands of publications and thousands of co-authors because he was so good at posing questions all over the place, and his influence is seen in so many parts of mathematics now.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>And so many applications outside of math. You know, questions he posed relate to sphere packing, and sphere packing relates to how your cell phone works in a crowded room, for example. And his ability to pose questions was not the same as his ability maybe to build theories and prove things.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>And so many applications outside of math. You know, questions he posed relate to sphere packing, and sphere packing relates to how your cell phone works in a crowded room, for example. And his ability to pose questions was not the same as his ability maybe to build theories and prove things.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>So I think this role for humans continues as to posing questions and building theories and finding what we think is interesting. To me, that doesn’t change with AI. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Well, thank you so much for chatting with me today. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Well, thank you so much for chatting with me today. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Thank you. It was really a delight to talk with you.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Thank you. It was really a delight to talk with you.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> For fun, here’s our credits in the form of a mathematical proof. Let Jess Love be your host. Given Life, Automated is a project of the Ryan Institute on Complexity at the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University. Assume distribution by KQED. This assumption is justified by the fact that we are distributed by KQED.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>By the combined efforts of Jesse Dukes and Tom Dixon, the show was produced. Add music by Steven Jackson and recording assistance from Will Feeney and George Christensen. To extend our results to a wider audience, apply the marketing efforts of Ananya Mallapragada and Lauren Ko. We acknowledge Laura Pavin and Rob Mitchum, whose contributions merit special thanks, though the full demonstration is omitted here for reasons of space.\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003ca href=\"#Transcript\">View Full Episode Transcript\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What happens when AI can produce a mathematical proof before any human understands it? And what does that mean for the rest of us?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Northwestern mathematician \u003ca href=\"https://www.math.northwestern.edu/people/faculty/bryna-kra.html\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>, a former president of the American Mathematical Society, joins host Jess Love to explore how AI is changing mathematical discovery. Generative AI has already brought about extraordinary breakthroughs, but its use is also unsettling the culture of collaboration, upending how young mathematicians learn, and raising a deceptively difficult question: is solving a problem the same as understanding it?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Kra explains why some mathematicians are becoming wary of sharing unfinished ideas and how she cautiously makes space for AI in her own research. Despite the disruption she still enthusiastically encourages students to enter the field.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Life, Automated is a production of the Ryan Institute on Complexity, at Northwestern’s Kellogg School of Management. The host is Jess Love, senior director. Distributed by \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/lifeautomated\">KQED\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Further Reading:\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003ca href=\"https://terrytao.wordpress.com/2026/09/13/deep-theorems-were-scarce-and-difficult-and-so-became-an-effective-mechanism-to-identify-deep-thought-ai-has-broken-this-system/\">Deep theorems were scarce and difficult and so became an effective mechanism to identify deep thought. AI has broken this system\u003c/a>. Bryna Kra, \u003ca href=\"http://terrytao.wordpress.com/\">TerryTao.wordpress.com\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.science.org/content/article/how-ai-math-breakthrough-ignited-controversy?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F\">How an AI math breakthrough ignited a controversy\u003c/a>. Celina Zhao and Adrian Cho, \u003cem>Science.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 id=\"Transcript\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Episode Transcript:\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> This is Life, Automated, the show where we explore what it means to live, work, and make decisions in a world increasingly shaped by machines. Bryna Kra is a mathematician here at Northwestern University, where I work. She’s the real deal. She’s been elected to the prestigious National Academy of Sciences and spent a few years as president of the American Mathematical Society.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And she works on the kinds of math problems that are nothing like what you saw in high school. They’re weird problems, heady problems, like Nivat’s conjecture, which basically says, bear with me here, that if you have an infinite 2D grid, like an infinitely large floor with square tiles, and no matter where you look on that floor, the local patterns have surprisingly little variety, then the entire floor must repeat itself, at least in one direction.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you’re not totally following why, don’t worry. These kinds of problems can take decades to solve. Someone will put forth a conjecture, and then a bunch of mathematicians or teams of mathematicians will work together to solve bits and pieces of the problem. And as of a few months ago, Bryna was one of the mathematicians who’d done just this.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Along with a coauthor, she’d put forth one of the major partial results for Nivat’s conjecture. And then, this September, everything changed. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> So starting a few weeks ago when there were new models released by the AI companies, those of us who’d worked on it began to receive proofs. And the proofs came from people who none of us knew. That’s great. You know, mathematicians tend to welcome new people into the field. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> But there was something unsettling about these proofs. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Well, they were very bad at tracing where the results came from. You know, what they were using from previous results. They didn’t highlight what was novel, which when you come to a breakthrough, you really want to write in the introduction, “This is what’s new.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Right. It was like missing the big story. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Yeah. It’s sort of putting everything on equal footing. And they seem to be correct. The problem is solved, but without any understanding of what was going into it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> Bryna wanted to talk to the mathematicians behind the proof.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> I wrote back to these people, and I asked, you know, “Would you like to meet and explain the proof?” There was always a reason why not. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> And Bryna came to suspect that the mathematicians couldn’t explain the proof because they didn’t really understand it because, well, it sure looked like they had gotten AI to just do it all for them.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> One of them disclosed full AI use. That’s fine. You know, they disclosed what they did. They said they were undergraduates who didn’t really know much math. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> Now, Bryna thinks there is some value in knowing that the conjecture can, in fact, be proven, some satisfaction even. But mostly she seems to think of it as a missed opportunity to actually understand something new, gain a tool, a new technique, a new way into the next problem.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because for a long time, this is what solving a proof meant. It meant you now understood something you didn’t before. And the Watts conjecture was hardly the biggest mathematical story of September. OpenAI announced that its models had solved one of the field’s crown jewels, the Navier-Stokes problem. On today’s episode, I speak with Bryna Kra about how AI is rocking the math world.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And even if you don’t care about math, maybe you still have PTSD from Algebra 2, Bryna argues you should still care about what is happening here, because today AI can put forth solutions to problems that have long stumped the field’s best and brightest, all without a single human ever reading or understanding that solution, which means while AI might be solving a bunch of problems, we humans might not be really learning very much, all while destroying the ecosystem that has long led to new discoveries.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So what does this mean for the future of math, for the humans who’ve devoted their lives to doing it, for the next generation of humans who are still learning it? And how does that apply to other intellectual pursuits? Because what happens in math doesn’t stay in math.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This is Life, Automated, a project from Kellogg’s Ryan Institute on Complexity, distributed by KQED. I started by asking Bryna about why OpenAI’s solving of the Navier-Stokes problem is such a big deal. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> So this problem is one of the millennium problems, which was posed in 2000 with a million dollars prize for each of them. There are seven millennium problems, only up till now, only one had been solved. That was by a human. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Thanks for clarifying. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> And some time ago. And the others were open, and they really guide the community in what directions we’re going to do research. So it’s about more than just solving the problems. It’s about understanding the methods, understanding stopping places along the way, partial results. It’s a much bigger picture than just solving this problem. What happened in early September was that they announced the solution, and it was immediately filled with controversy. There were some mathematicians who were working on it using AI, fully disclosed that they were using AI to work on it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And they had made significant progress, and there were a lot of questions immediately as to how the results from OpenAI were released, what access they had to what the mathematicians had been doing, was it independent, and how this was a complete change in the norms of the field. Mathematics typically is slow. We check each other’s work. We share results even along the way, partial, and this was just a very different way of doing math. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> Part of what makes it different is that apparently OpenAI rushed to solve the problem after learning that two mathematicians, including one associated with Anthropic, its big corporate rival, were close to a breakthrough. This is according to a published account by NYU mathematician Tristan Buckmaster, one of the collaborators. OpenAI apparently decided they wanted to beat the team to the punch and diverted massive computing resources, including thousands of AI agents, to solving the problem. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> This is turning math into a competition in a way that it never has. Our community, the math community, has for ages been a very collaborative place, a place where we share our results before they are published. We put them on the archive, which is an open registry for this, where people can upload the results even before they’ve been reviewed by journals for publication by referees. We have an extremely rigorous refereeing policy, and this was just a completely different way to do it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Yeah, so it’s almost destabilizing for several different reasons. There’s the sense that, “oh my gosh, it actually solved this problem.” Like, but then there’s also the sense that it’s being used potentially to impress investors, to get them to pour more money into some of these companies. And so you’re taking these problems, and instead of letting them be guideposts to where mathematicians can orient their own efforts, it’s taking that and using it for something, like hijacking it for a completely different purpose. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Correct. There’s a complete misalignment in the interests of the AI companies and the interests of the mathematical community. For the AI companies, this is a way to benchmark, to show their investors that they have done something hard. Right. Most people agree math is hard. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Yes. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> So this is one way that they can show that they’ve really achieved something that the humans did not do, that they’ve gone beyond what humans were capable of. For the math community, our incentives are quite different. Of course, we wanna solve problems, and I think most mathematicians would agree it’s amazing that these problems have been solved, and we’re all delighted to see that these problems are solved. But it goes well beyond just solving problems. We wanna understand what the solutions are and what they tell us and what they give us as guideposts for future research and future directions.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> I wanted to know how Bryna would compare these discoveries in math to those in, say, drug development, where the goal seems like it should be to discover as much as possible as quickly as possible. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> So we love to discover. Mathematicians love to uncover new, deep results. This is great. But there isn’t the same pressure to hurry the discoveries out. Let’s say the solutions in Navier-Stokes had come out a month later, giving the humans time to finish writing up their portions, the humans involved in the discovery that led to the huge breakthroughs by OpenAI, to write up their part and carefully explain it to the community and finish their work versus coming out exactly as it did under pressure in a tweet, in a press release. This… Math is not done by tweet or press release. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">On the other hand, had OpenAI come up with a cure for cancer, the rush to announce it, to share it with the world, I think is completely understandable. This is just a very different culture of how math is done and the immediate importance of the result versus something like a drug company.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> This point about the immediate importance of a mathematical result versus, say, a cure for cancer is really worth spending a bit of time with, because as abstract and frankly out there as some of these problems sound infinite grids, they really can lead to these enormous breakthroughs; but the breakthroughs don’t just follow from the solution. They come from understanding that occurs along the way. Solutions need to be absorbed, mulled, and picked apart, and mulled again, and the normal pace of math has always allowed for that because what’s the rush? The practical uses from these breakthroughs when they do occur could be decades away. Techniques developed by the mathematician Joseph Fourier two hundred years ago help to power medical imaging today. Or here’s another example.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Well, you probably use your credit card online, all the time.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> I do, too much. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Behind that is deep number theory that was developed, some of it 100 years ago, some of it 50 years ago, and some of it is still being developed. Number theory is about the positive integers and their properties, like the numbers one, two, three, four, five, and so on, and what kind of properties they have. But inside that study of number theory, there were these tools that were developed that allow the encryption that allows you to use your credit card securely and most of the time without getting the number stolen, right? So, so that is a tool that was developed for the sake of understanding- \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"> \u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> How fascinating … \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> …And yet it gets used every day all the time now. So we don’t know all of the applications that are coming out of the foundational research that is happening in mathematics, and we cannot predict that. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> Bryna’s fear is that reams of AI-generated proofs hitting the field all at once will lead to little actual understanding, fewer new tools and insights, all while discouraging human mathematicians from continuing their own investigations into these conjectures.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> What it did is close off this area. What’s the incentive now for somebody to go through and understand that? Unless it’s gonna lead somewhere new. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> Bryna thinks that simply having AI systems that can solve, and maybe in their own way understand the math behind a proof, isn’t adequate. We need humans to understand the math in order to keep directing the field, keep inquiring. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And she does see some ways of using AI that could bring that about. In these cases, the AI follows the human’s lead, helps them follow their own intuition and curiosity to discover new things, rather than AI just doing everything and leaving humans to deal with the aftermath. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong>So, I have started using it to explore new directions. I use it if there’s something I’m reading and I don’t understand. It’s a fantastic way to ask it, like, “Explain how you get from this statement to that statement.” It’s really good at that. Or, “Explain where this comes from, this idea.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And if you ask it to go search for an idea, because I like to understand where the ideas come from, it’s actually very good. It says, “Well, there seems to be something similar in this paper from 10 years ago, and another one from 20 years ago,” that I would probably not have found. I’ve started using it to code up things. And it can write computer programs and execute computer programs for me, and test thousands of examples in a way that would take me months, if not years to do.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This is not just saying, “Solve this problem.” You direct it. You say, “Well, now explore that direction, because that’s interesting.” And that’s where the human understanding of what’s going on in the math is super important, because many of us know things that cannot work for some reason, or are not the right direction to search, and it might be an intuition or it might be an actual math fact.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But we can direct it to look in these areas because we have spent so much time thinking about these problems. And so we can really guide the AI to help us look, here’s where you might be thinking about a technique, a tool, an approach, or a counterexample. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> So even as there’s more human-machine collaboration, do you wonder what will happen to human-human collaboration? And I just kept thinking that the second you present one of these partial results where you’re kinda like, “Hey, we got to this new point in the road,” does it then just trigger a bunch of AI-enabled mathematicians? Or maybe forget the mathematician, just AI-enabled AI to go ahead and solve the rest. Does it make it less likely to want to discuss the things that you are learning along the way?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Yeah, so this is exactly one of the issues that the field is grappling with now, that it’s a complete change in our culture. A year ago when I gave a talk at a conference, I would always pepper it with open questions and other directions of research because I would be delighted if someone in the audience would go and work on those and come back to me and say, “Hey, you asked this question, and I came up with this answer. Can we discuss?” Or if they write it on their own, either of these things would be delicious and wonderful. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Right. Right. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> This is now complete change. If you go and you pose a problem as part of a natural open, you know, next direction that you are thinking about, and you don’t know the audience, and there’s somebody there who wants to just take it and put it in AI, of course, they’re welcome to do that. But if it’s a problem, for example, that I want to work on or that I want one of my students to work on, this is now a very dangerous thing to do. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Yeah. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> So it has destroyed the trust that the community has in other people because there are people there who are just wanting to take it and put all the problems into AI and keep moving forward.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That cultural norm of openness and sharing has really been destroyed in an instant, and I really hope we find a way to go back to that because it is one of the things that made mathematics such an amazing place to be. The community is a great bunch of people that shared and worked together in the collaborative environment, and if we destroy that, then I think we will really have destroyed the role of human mathematicians.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">On the other hand, there are many of us fighting hard to keep that. This can be local. We have a local seminar, working group, which has about 10 to 15 people each week, and we have all agreed that nothing goes into AI… unless the speaker agrees. So nobody will be doing that in our local group, and we all trust each other. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think people have to come with those types of agreements, with their collaborators. There are different types of collaborations, and whether or not you include AI, put the problems in or not, that is something every collaborator needs to discuss.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> Different agreements, tortured discussions about when and how AI will be used and disclosed. People genuinely afraid to present their results at conferences because analyses that would have taken months can be done in hours, making the likelihood of getting scooped that much higher. This sounds very familiar because I’m seeing this play out in so many academic disciplines.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Working at a university, I have a front row seat to the ways different fields, different subfields, different individuals are approaching this moment. I walk through campus and can feel the undercurrent of shock and wariness and excitement and anxiety. I can hear an entire lecture hall hush as everyone reckons with the magnitude of the changes that are coming, changes that may already be here now that the work of knowledge production no longer happens at human scale.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And it’s not just academia. This is happening wherever ideas are generated and codified and shared with others. AI is coding up complex software and designing sophisticated marketing campaigns and writing prize-winning literature. It’s just that it’s all happening so clearly in mathematics with like actual proofs attached.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In a recent blog post, Bryna described her field as, “a canary in the coal mine.” We discuss after the break.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> So one of the things that really caught my attention in your blog post about recent events is that you mentioned that AI’s abilities in mathematics are a bit of a “canary in the coal mine” for a lot of different disciplines. Can you say more about what you mean? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Right. So the issues that mathematics is dealing with right now are not going to stay just a problem for mathematicians. It is already happening in theoretical computer science, which, you know, is part of math in some way, another close field. But I do not believe that it will stay there. I think it will come for all intellectual fields. It’s coming for law already. I think people understand how much the AI can actually absorb case law and produce what read and look like briefs. And so I see no reason why it won’t develop for other ones as it gets better. Math was first in some way because our training data was so excellent and because it was such a good proving ground for the companies to benchmark of what they’re doing.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But, I think it’s naive to think that it will stop with math and theoretical computer science and law. Fields will need to decide what their values are, which ones they want to keep with the changes, it can’t be all because they won’t all get kept, and then figure out the ways to implement keeping those.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So what steps does the field take to make sure that their values are still there at the end of this AI revolution? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Right, which might involve really at the core making sure that the incentives of the broader field are in some way aligned with the incentives of individuals. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Correct. Right now, we have a complete misalignment on many levels. We have a misalignment between what the AI companies want from mathematics and what mathematicians want. We have a misalignment between the ways we use mathematical results to judge people and what can be produced now, making it very hard to judge people. So the math community is grappling with these issues.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Right now, there’s recently a report that came out of a group, there was a conference at Harvard on the future of the PhD in mathematics. Mathematicians are deeply concerned about how we will train the next generation because we really do believe that this is a time, if anything, for more mathematical input and more mathematical insight, the human type, not just the AI type.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And if we have cut ourselves off at the knees and don’t have a way to train the next generation, how will we have that? So there’s great concern on this. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Right, because you might be, instead of relying on a PhD student or two to assist you with your research, it can be very tempting to go to AI. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Well, no, I think it’s a different issue.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Okay. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> In mathematics, it’s quite different than the lab sciences. PhD students typically don’t assist us with our research, but rather it’s the opposite. We kinda give them, at the beginning, things that we sort of know how to do, maybe not the details- certainly not all the details, but that we see the path forward.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There’s a lot of work to do, and they gotta go do the work themselves. But we kinda see that. That’s how we start training them. And then after they’ve worked on such a problem, we help them explore new directions so they find their own way- to find their own problem that they can do, and we still help them.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> And so how does… Can you just flesh out how AI disrupts that? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> The AI disrupts this completely. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Yeah, I’d love to hear how. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Completely, because that first problem that we sort of see the path, and it’s missing some hard work. Every problem I can come up with like that, if I were to put it into the AI, it would just give me the solution.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There’s a big difference between coming up with it on your own, and therefore having to do the work, the pen and paper work, and actually reading somebody else’s. And we are trying to exactly train them to do that, the difference between reading and understanding something that you get from elsewhere, and being able to develop it yourself and writing it up.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> I see. So it’s almost like the types of problems that a PhD student would even be able, like a new PhD student would be able to handle, are the exact types of problems that AI can one-shot. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Correct. So I think we have to change our training programs. We have to train the students more to think about how do we go outside the box? What are the right questions to be asking about this, rather than just getting them from their advisor, “Here’s a good question to ask.” Because it’s, it- that’s a skill that we have not had to develop as early in a student’s training. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Would you still advise a student who is very interested in mathematics to go into the field?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> So to me, somebody who’s interested in mathematics, the answer is yes. Absolutely, resoundingly yes. I spoke to some students and I said to them, “You know, I’d like to think about it this way. The first, few lines of, ‘A Tale of Two Cities’ – \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Right. And so in some sense, in mathematics, it was, this is the best of times. We’re going to see huge conjectures fall. We’re going to see new understanding of areas that we couldn’t have possibly hoped to understand 10 years ago. This is amazing, and for a student to be at the forefront of that and really in that, great. The part that is the worst of times is that we need to completely adapt and do it really quickly of how we’re doing this.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So it’s gonna be a turbulent time, so that’s gonna be complicated. But I think the community is working hard to do that, to ensure that there are jobs for the next generation, to ensure that we have a way to train the next generation, and to meet the need because I think we need more mathematicians right now.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We don’t want AI systems that we can’t understand at all on any level. The math that developed these systems now needs to be turned towards developing safety for these systems. There are new uses of math that are coming, and so yeah, in some sense it is the best of times for mathematics.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. It was the age of falling conjectures. It was the age of new conjectures rising. It was the epoch of dauntingly capable AI systems transforming math. It was the epoch of new kinds of math desperately needed to make these systems safe. It was the season of human irrelevance.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It was the season of humans reasserting themselves, reminding everyone who this is all supposed to be for. I feel this all so much. Maybe you do too, because right now it seems true for a lot of fields. Take my own world of science communication. I’ve spent 15 years trying to become excellent at my work, making complex ideas accessible and helping others do the same, and the truth is, AI can do this really well now at superhuman scale, at least the technical parts of it.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I got into this work because I felt it was important, so on some level, an on-demand complexity demystifying machine that everyone can use is amazing. It is the best of times. But on another level, it feels terrible. Will another generation of science writers even bother learning this craft? Will they be able to connect human to human to the people they’re doing this for? What is the role for humans in these kinds of intellectual pursuits? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> So we talked about the difference earlier between discoveries in math versus, say, cancer research, drugs development. I wanna bring a different discipline into the mix, art. With art, the process is the point. So fully AI-generated art is certainly already having commercial uses, but it’s hard to imagine it ever fully replacing human-generated art because how art is done, by whom, when, why, all of these things, like, that’s the ballgame with art.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That’s why we still love oil paintings even though we have cameras. That’s why my eight-year-old will draw a squiggle and I will love it, but it will have zero market value, and then Picasso will draw a squiggle and it has… You know, I might also love it, but it will also have market value. So there seems to be an interesting continuum, a different one, between disciplines where the outcome is really what matters, and disciplines where the process is what matters.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> What do you think of this way of thinking about it, and how would math fit into that? So I’m an optimist about the future of mathematics. I believe that the human role will continue, and it will remain key. And, one can do exactly like AI-generated art. There’s a lot of AI-generated math out there. And it’s overwhelming the community because who’s gonna read it all? \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Yeah. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> And who’s gonna check it all, and who’s gonna use it all? But it still seems to me that the role for human understanding and human use of this mathematics is extremely important for many of the same reasons.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">See, we get to decide what are the interesting directions for research. We get to decide what are the interesting questions that we want answered. I don’t think anyone knows now if the AI companies will reach superhuman intelligence in mathematics. Maybe they will, but I find it hard to believe that even with superhuman intelligence of problem-solving, that the AIs will develop the same interest of what we find interesting, and what are the right directions to search. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In this sense, it’s very different than, something like the game of ‘Go’, which an AI is just simply better at- and developed new – \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Chess.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra: \u003c/strong> ‘Go’, ‘Chess’. Coming up with the next direction, what’s the next interesting thing, to me seems unbounded in a way that is quite different from those games. And so for this reason, I really believe that there will be a human role in the future. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Questions, asking the right questions, and going in the right directions may become a new proxy for the field for judging things. I don’t know. But it’s certainly much more important than it has been in the past.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There were always the people who were great at posing questions. Erdős is a famous mathematician who had thousands of publications and thousands of co-authors because he was so good at posing questions all over the place, and his influence is seen in so many parts of mathematics now.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And so many applications outside of math. You know, questions he posed relate to sphere packing, and sphere packing relates to how your cell phone works in a crowded room, for example. And his ability to pose questions was not the same as his ability maybe to build theories and prove things.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So I think this role for humans continues as to posing questions and building theories and finding what we think is interesting. To me, that doesn’t change with AI. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love:\u003c/strong> Well, thank you so much for chatting with me today. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Bryna Kra:\u003c/strong> Thank you. It was really a delight to talk with you.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003cstrong>Jess Love [Voiceover]:\u003c/strong> For fun, here’s our credits in the form of a mathematical proof. Let Jess Love be your host. Given Life, Automated is a project of the Ryan Institute on Complexity at the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University. Assume distribution by KQED. This assumption is justified by the fact that we are distributed by KQED.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">By the combined efforts of Jesse Dukes and Tom Dixon, the show was produced. Add music by Steven Jackson and recording assistance from Will Feeney and George Christensen. To extend our results to a wider audience, apply the marketing efforts of Ananya Mallapragada and Lauren Ko. We acknowledge Laura Pavin and Rob Mitchum, whose contributions merit special thanks, though the full demonstration is omitted here for reasons of space.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Therefore, this episode exists. Whether you understood it is left as an exercise for the listener.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "AI Giant Anthropic Files for an IPO That Could Break Records",
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"content": "\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/ai\">artificial intelligence\u003c/a> startup Anthropic, maker of the hugely popular Claude AI models, has taken a major step toward holding an initial public offering that analysts expect to be one of the biggest ever.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Anthropic filed final paperwork with regulators on Monday for an IPO under the ticker symbol ANT that reports have said could value the company at between \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/investors-temper-anthropic-ipo-valuation-expectations-over-revenue-growth-2026-10-15/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">$1.5 trillion\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/anthropic-expected-to-tell-investors-it-sees-over-30-trillion-in-potential-revenue-a611efea\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">$2 trillion\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That would put it in league with Elon Musk’s rocketry and AI company SpaceX, which was valued at around $1.8 trillion when \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/06/12/nx-s1-5855004/stock-ai-spacex-ipo-elon-musk\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">it listed in June\u003c/a>. Anthropic’s listing prospectus did not say how many shares the company will offer or at what price range.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The filing of a public version of a registration statement called a Form S-1 with the Securities and Exchange Commission is a major milestone in Anthropic’s meteoric rise. It was launched just five years ago by a breakaway group of OpenAI researchers, led by Dario Amodei, who were concerned that that company, run by Sam Altman, was not on a path to develop AI safely.\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/09/12/nx-s1-5950588/openai-anthropic-ai-safety-researchers-hacks\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Anthropic has since become a juggernaut, and OpenAI’s biggest competitor, with some of the most widely used AI models on the market. But the company has faced controversy, including a \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/08/28/nx-s1-5947761/judge-pentagon-anthropic-illegal\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">conflict with the Pentagon\u003c/a> over how its models can be used and questions about Amodei’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/09/12/nx-s1-5950588/openai-anthropic-ai-safety-researchers-hacks\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">dire warnings on AI risks\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>AI stocks have been hit by volatility \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The filing comes at a volatile time in the stock market for AI-related companies, as investors waver between exuberance about the positive effects AI could have on the economy and concern about safety and the tsunami of investment in the technology.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The IPO, which could happen as soon as November, will be one of the most eagerly anticipated public share offerings in years. OpenAI, which makes ChatGPT, is also planning an IPO, but \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/openai-ipo-will-not-happen-2026-amid-ai-safety-fears-altman-says-2026-09-12/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">those plans are temporarily on ice\u003c/a>, with Altman ruling out a listing this year as “ill-advised” in the face of swirling AI safety concerns.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Going public has a lot of advantages. It brings in capital for growth. It makes it easier for you to raise additional capital elsewhere. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And it makes it possible for your existing investors to cash out,” said Jim Angel, an associate professor and markets specialist at Georgetown University.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But, he added, “there’s concern that we may be in an AI bubble. We’re in a very dynamic industry, to say the least, and we can expect a lot of volatility in the markets.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Still, Angel said, it makes sense for Anthropic to “strike while the iron is hot” and list shares now to get as high a valuation as possible.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">With SpaceX already trading publicly, Anthropic’s IPO could test investor appetite for AI businesses at a time when markets are jittery about whether they can be profitable enough to justify the mind-boggling sums of money being invested in AI. SpaceX’s shares soared briefly after the listing, but have come back down to around $150, where they started trading.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Concerns remain about the AI sector\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The balancing act for companies trying to ride the AI wave is real. The data center and infrastructure provider \u003ca href=\"https://www.cnn.com/2026/10/20/investing/ai-debt-coreweave-tech-stocks\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">CoreWeave\u003c/a> saw its share price plummet this month when investors got nervous about its ability to finance its expansion plans and its bond yields leaped. Other major players, including Intel, Meta and Nvidia, have also been buffeted by concerns and watched their share prices slide in recent weeks.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Debt financing has been a growing concern as AI-related companies scramble to raise money to meet demand at a time when interest rates are poised to keep rising as the Federal Reserve tries to douse stubborn inflation.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The S-1 filing that tees up the IPO flagged what Anthropic sees as the risks from AI — and to its business model. Among them are the risk that its AI models could develop faster than the company can keep them safe, or that they could be used to cause harm — or take harmful actions on their own. It also flagged the risk of heightened scrutiny or political backlash for the company’s views on policy and regulation.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Amodei himself has issued some of the AI world’s sharpest warnings about the possibility of AI spiraling out of control and causing harm, and urged AI companies to “\u003ca href=\"https://darioamodei.com/post/we-must-pace-the-frontier\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">pace the frontier\u003c/a>,” or to \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/09/14/nx-s1-5968624/a-roundtable-on-the-rapid-acceleration-of-ai\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">slow the development\u003c/a> of their most capable models.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Anthropic has also clashed with the Pentagon this year over how the military can use its models. Amodei has drawn a line in the sand when it comes to using Anthropic’s AI for autonomous weapons and mass surveillance of Americans.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In response, the Pentagon blacklisted Anthropic and designated it a “\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/03/06/g-s1-112713/pentagon-labels-ai-company-anthropic-a-supply-chain-risk\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">supply chain risk\u003c/a>” — a label previously reserved for entities affiliated with U.S. adversaries. Anthropic has sued the Pentagon in two federal district courts. Those legal battles remain ongoing.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/ai\">artificial intelligence\u003c/a> startup Anthropic, maker of the hugely popular Claude AI models, has taken a major step toward holding an initial public offering that analysts expect to be one of the biggest ever.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/ai\">artificial intelligence\u003c/a> startup Anthropic, maker of the hugely popular Claude AI models, has taken a major step toward holding an initial public offering that analysts expect to be one of the biggest ever.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Anthropic filed final paperwork with regulators on Monday for an IPO under the ticker symbol ANT that reports have said could value the company at between \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/investors-temper-anthropic-ipo-valuation-expectations-over-revenue-growth-2026-10-15/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">$1.5 trillion\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/anthropic-expected-to-tell-investors-it-sees-over-30-trillion-in-potential-revenue-a611efea\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">$2 trillion\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Anthropic filed final paperwork with regulators on Monday for an IPO under the ticker symbol ANT that reports have said could value the company at between \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/investors-temper-anthropic-ipo-valuation-expectations-over-revenue-growth-2026-10-15/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">$1.5 trillion\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/anthropic-expected-to-tell-investors-it-sees-over-30-trillion-in-potential-revenue-a611efea\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">$2 trillion\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>That would put it in league with Elon Musk’s rocketry and AI company SpaceX, which was valued at around $1.8 trillion when \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/06/12/nx-s1-5855004/stock-ai-spacex-ipo-elon-musk\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">it listed in June\u003c/a>. Anthropic’s listing prospectus did not say how many shares the company will offer or at what price range.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>That would put it in league with Elon Musk’s rocketry and AI company SpaceX, which was valued at around $1.8 trillion when \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/06/12/nx-s1-5855004/stock-ai-spacex-ipo-elon-musk\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">it listed in June\u003c/a>. Anthropic’s listing prospectus did not say how many shares the company will offer or at what price range.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The filing of a public version of a registration statement called a Form S-1 with the Securities and Exchange Commission is a major milestone in Anthropic’s meteoric rise. It was launched just five years ago by a breakaway group of OpenAI researchers, led by Dario Amodei, who were concerned that that company, run by Sam Altman, was not on a path to develop AI safely.\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/09/12/nx-s1-5950588/openai-anthropic-ai-safety-researchers-hacks\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The filing of a public version of a registration statement called a Form S-1 with the Securities and Exchange Commission is a major milestone in Anthropic’s meteoric rise. It was launched just five years ago by a breakaway group of OpenAI researchers, led by Dario Amodei, who were concerned that that company, run by Sam Altman, was not on a path to develop AI safely.\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/09/12/nx-s1-5950588/openai-anthropic-ai-safety-researchers-hacks\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Anthropic has since become a juggernaut, and OpenAI’s biggest competitor, with some of the most widely used AI models on the market. But the company has faced controversy, including a \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/08/28/nx-s1-5947761/judge-pentagon-anthropic-illegal\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">conflict with the Pentagon\u003c/a> over how its models can be used and questions about Amodei’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/09/12/nx-s1-5950588/openai-anthropic-ai-safety-researchers-hacks\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">dire warnings on AI risks\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Anthropic has since become a juggernaut, and OpenAI’s biggest competitor, with some of the most widely used AI models on the market. But the company has faced controversy, including a \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/08/28/nx-s1-5947761/judge-pentagon-anthropic-illegal\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">conflict with the Pentagon\u003c/a> over how its models can be used and questions about Amodei’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/09/12/nx-s1-5950588/openai-anthropic-ai-safety-researchers-hacks\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">dire warnings on AI risks\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The filing comes at a volatile time in the stock market for AI-related companies, as investors waver between exuberance about the positive effects AI could have on the economy and concern about safety and the tsunami of investment in the technology.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The IPO, which could happen as soon as November, will be one of the most eagerly anticipated public share offerings in years. OpenAI, which makes ChatGPT, is also planning an IPO, but \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/openai-ipo-will-not-happen-2026-amid-ai-safety-fears-altman-says-2026-09-12/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">those plans are temporarily on ice\u003c/a>, with Altman ruling out a listing this year as “ill-advised” in the face of swirling AI safety concerns.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“Going public has a lot of advantages. It brings in capital for growth. It makes it easier for you to raise additional capital elsewhere. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>And it makes it possible for your existing investors to cash out,” said Jim Angel, an associate professor and markets specialist at Georgetown University.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>But, he added, “there’s concern that we may be in an AI bubble. We’re in a very dynamic industry, to say the least, and we can expect a lot of volatility in the markets.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>But, he added, “there’s concern that we may be in an AI bubble. We’re in a very dynamic industry, to say the least, and we can expect a lot of volatility in the markets.” \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Still, Angel said, it makes sense for Anthropic to “strike while the iron is hot” and list shares now to get as high a valuation as possible.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Still, Angel said, it makes sense for Anthropic to “strike while the iron is hot” and list shares now to get as high a valuation as possible.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>With SpaceX already trading publicly, Anthropic’s IPO could test investor appetite for AI businesses at a time when markets are jittery about whether they can be profitable enough to justify the mind-boggling sums of money being invested in AI. SpaceX’s shares soared briefly after the listing, but have come back down to around $150, where they started trading.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The balancing act for companies trying to ride the AI wave is real. The data center and infrastructure provider \u003ca href=\"https://www.cnn.com/2026/10/20/investing/ai-debt-coreweave-tech-stocks\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">CoreWeave\u003c/a> saw its share price plummet this month when investors got nervous about its ability to finance its expansion plans and its bond yields leaped. Other major players, including Intel, Meta and Nvidia, have also been buffeted by concerns and watched their share prices slide in recent weeks.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The S-1 filing that tees up the IPO flagged what Anthropic sees as the risks from AI — and to its business model. Among them are the risk that its AI models could develop faster than the company can keep them safe, or that they could be used to cause harm — or take harmful actions on their own. It also flagged the risk of heightened scrutiny or political backlash for the company’s views on policy and regulation.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Amodei himself has issued some of the AI world’s sharpest warnings about the possibility of AI spiraling out of control and causing harm, and urged AI companies to “\u003ca href=\"https://darioamodei.com/post/we-must-pace-the-frontier\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">pace the frontier\u003c/a>,” or to \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/09/14/nx-s1-5968624/a-roundtable-on-the-rapid-acceleration-of-ai\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">slow the development\u003c/a> of their most capable models.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Anthropic has also clashed with the Pentagon this year over how the military can use its models. Amodei has drawn a line in the sand when it comes to using Anthropic’s AI for autonomous weapons and mass surveillance of Americans.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In response, the Pentagon blacklisted Anthropic and designated it a “\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/03/06/g-s1-112713/pentagon-labels-ai-company-anthropic-a-supply-chain-risk\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">supply chain risk\u003c/a>” — a label previously reserved for entities affiliated with U.S. adversaries. Anthropic has sued the Pentagon in two federal district courts. Those legal battles remain ongoing.\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "The maker of Claude is on the edge of what may be the largest public offering of all time, amid questions of sustainability and AI safety.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/ai\">artificial intelligence\u003c/a> startup Anthropic, maker of the hugely popular Claude AI models, has taken a major step toward holding an initial public offering that analysts expect to be one of the biggest ever.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Anthropic filed final paperwork with regulators on Monday for an IPO under the ticker symbol ANT that reports have said could value the company at between \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/investors-temper-anthropic-ipo-valuation-expectations-over-revenue-growth-2026-10-15/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">$1.5 trillion\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/anthropic-expected-to-tell-investors-it-sees-over-30-trillion-in-potential-revenue-a611efea\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">$2 trillion\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That would put it in league with Elon Musk’s rocketry and AI company SpaceX, which was valued at around $1.8 trillion when \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/06/12/nx-s1-5855004/stock-ai-spacex-ipo-elon-musk\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">it listed in June\u003c/a>. Anthropic’s listing prospectus did not say how many shares the company will offer or at what price range.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The filing of a public version of a registration statement called a Form S-1 with the Securities and Exchange Commission is a major milestone in Anthropic’s meteoric rise. It was launched just five years ago by a breakaway group of OpenAI researchers, led by Dario Amodei, who were concerned that that company, run by Sam Altman, was not on a path to develop AI safely.\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/09/12/nx-s1-5950588/openai-anthropic-ai-safety-researchers-hacks\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Anthropic has since become a juggernaut, and OpenAI’s biggest competitor, with some of the most widely used AI models on the market. But the company has faced controversy, including a \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/08/28/nx-s1-5947761/judge-pentagon-anthropic-illegal\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">conflict with the Pentagon\u003c/a> over how its models can be used and questions about Amodei’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/09/12/nx-s1-5950588/openai-anthropic-ai-safety-researchers-hacks\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">dire warnings on AI risks\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>AI stocks have been hit by volatility \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The filing comes at a volatile time in the stock market for AI-related companies, as investors waver between exuberance about the positive effects AI could have on the economy and concern about safety and the tsunami of investment in the technology.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The IPO, which could happen as soon as November, will be one of the most eagerly anticipated public share offerings in years. OpenAI, which makes ChatGPT, is also planning an IPO, but \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/openai-ipo-will-not-happen-2026-amid-ai-safety-fears-altman-says-2026-09-12/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">those plans are temporarily on ice\u003c/a>, with Altman ruling out a listing this year as “ill-advised” in the face of swirling AI safety concerns.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Going public has a lot of advantages. It brings in capital for growth. It makes it easier for you to raise additional capital elsewhere. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And it makes it possible for your existing investors to cash out,” said Jim Angel, an associate professor and markets specialist at Georgetown University.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But, he added, “there’s concern that we may be in an AI bubble. We’re in a very dynamic industry, to say the least, and we can expect a lot of volatility in the markets.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Still, Angel said, it makes sense for Anthropic to “strike while the iron is hot” and list shares now to get as high a valuation as possible.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">With SpaceX already trading publicly, Anthropic’s IPO could test investor appetite for AI businesses at a time when markets are jittery about whether they can be profitable enough to justify the mind-boggling sums of money being invested in AI. SpaceX’s shares soared briefly after the listing, but have come back down to around $150, where they started trading.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Concerns remain about the AI sector\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The balancing act for companies trying to ride the AI wave is real. The data center and infrastructure provider \u003ca href=\"https://www.cnn.com/2026/10/20/investing/ai-debt-coreweave-tech-stocks\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">CoreWeave\u003c/a> saw its share price plummet this month when investors got nervous about its ability to finance its expansion plans and its bond yields leaped. Other major players, including Intel, Meta and Nvidia, have also been buffeted by concerns and watched their share prices slide in recent weeks.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Debt financing has been a growing concern as AI-related companies scramble to raise money to meet demand at a time when interest rates are poised to keep rising as the Federal Reserve tries to douse stubborn inflation.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The S-1 filing that tees up the IPO flagged what Anthropic sees as the risks from AI — and to its business model. Among them are the risk that its AI models could develop faster than the company can keep them safe, or that they could be used to cause harm — or take harmful actions on their own. It also flagged the risk of heightened scrutiny or political backlash for the company’s views on policy and regulation.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Amodei himself has issued some of the AI world’s sharpest warnings about the possibility of AI spiraling out of control and causing harm, and urged AI companies to “\u003ca href=\"https://darioamodei.com/post/we-must-pace-the-frontier\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">pace the frontier\u003c/a>,” or to \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/09/14/nx-s1-5968624/a-roundtable-on-the-rapid-acceleration-of-ai\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">slow the development\u003c/a> of their most capable models.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Anthropic has also clashed with the Pentagon this year over how the military can use its models. Amodei has drawn a line in the sand when it comes to using Anthropic’s AI for autonomous weapons and mass surveillance of Americans.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In response, the Pentagon blacklisted Anthropic and designated it a “\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/03/06/g-s1-112713/pentagon-labels-ai-company-anthropic-a-supply-chain-risk\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">supply chain risk\u003c/a>” — a label previously reserved for entities affiliated with U.S. adversaries. Anthropic has sued the Pentagon in two federal district courts. Those legal battles remain ongoing.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "faculty-and-students-protest-csu-event-demand-higher-pay-and-job-security",
"title": "Faculty and Students Protest CSU Event, Demand Higher Pay and Job Security",
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"headTitle": "Faculty and Students Protest CSU Event, Demand Higher Pay and Job Security | KQED",
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"content": "\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">A group of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/california\">California\u003c/a> Faculty Association union members and students rallied in San José on Thursday to protest a speech by the state university system’s chancellor, demanding higher pay and more job security protections against AI.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Lecturers, faculty members and students from Sacramento and San José State University marched in the rain in front of the city’s Signia Hilton Hotel, which hosted California State University’s 2026 Student Success Symposium.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>Holding signs that read “CSU unfair to labor” and “Step up or strike out,” they called on CSU Chancellor Mildred García, who was giving a speech at the event. They chanted, “What do we want? Fair contracts! When do we want it? Now!”\u003cbr>\u003cbr>“We want to be heard at the bargaining table and let her know that faculty is present at San José State,” said Ginevra Marta Scherini, a lecturer at the university. “We want fair bargaining and good outcomes for our contracts.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/20240403_SJSUFILE_GC-11-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12037915\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/20240403_SJSUFILE_GC-11-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/20240403_SJSUFILE_GC-11-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/20240403_SJSUFILE_GC-11-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/20240403_SJSUFILE_GC-11-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/20240403_SJSUFILE_GC-11-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/20240403_SJSUFILE_GC-11-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Tower Hall at San José State University on April 3, 2025. (Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In July, the faculty union declared an impasse in contract negotiations after \u003ca href=\"https://www.calfac.org/cfa-declares-impasse-in-contract-bargaining-negotiations/\">CSU returned with a proposal\u003c/a> that would cut their health benefits. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Scherini, who said she’s been working at the university for five years and teaches in three different departments, still has to work a second job to afford living in the Bay.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">She also said she’s worried about how SJSU and CSU’s interest in AI will impact her job security.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.calstate.edu/impact-of-the-csu/technology/ai-empowered-csu/Pages/ai-timeline.aspx\">CSU launched its AI Initiative in 2025\u003c/a> with the goal of becoming the “nation’s first and largest AI-empowered university system,” partnering with the governor’s office, Adobe, OpenAI, NVIDIA and other tech companies to implement more AI tools for students, staff and faculty members.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Upstairs, above the lobby, administrators and presidents from each of the 22 CSU campuses listened to García’s plans for increasing academic success, graduation rates and hiring rates in the coming few years. \u003cbr>\u003cbr>“The CSU has never been and will not now be reckless with our students’ futures,” García said at the symposium.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Personally, I’m a waitress on Fridays so that I can make ends meet,” Scherini said. “If we’re having to juggle two, three jobs to make ends meet, that’s going to directly impact their learning outcomes.” She said she has been going to AI training sessions, but the policies around how AI usage on campus are still vague.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“One of the major guardrails I hope to see come out is to make sure that artificial intelligence isn’t used to replace faculty and substitute for classroom learning,” Scherini added.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">San José State University spokesperson Michelle Smith McDonald told KQED at the event that the university is keeping its AI policies “more open” to allow professors and lecturers to freely decide how they want it to be used in the classroom.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“The university hears those concerns, the provost hears those concerns, and it’s a matter of how prescriptive you are about AI and AI usage,” McDonald said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In July, the faculty union declared an impasse in contract negotiations after \u003ca href=\"https://www.calfac.org/cfa-declares-impasse-in-contract-bargaining-negotiations/\">CSU returned with a proposal\u003c/a> that would cut their health benefits. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Scherini, who said she’s been working at the university for five years and teaches in three different departments, still has to work a second job to afford living in the Bay.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>She also said she’s worried about how SJSU and CSU’s interest in AI will impact her job security.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.calstate.edu/impact-of-the-csu/technology/ai-empowered-csu/Pages/ai-timeline.aspx\">CSU launched its AI Initiative in 2025\u003c/a> with the goal of becoming the “nation’s first and largest AI-empowered university system,” partnering with the governor’s office, Adobe, OpenAI, NVIDIA and other tech companies to implement more AI tools for students, staff and faculty members.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Upstairs, above the lobby, administrators and presidents from each of the 22 CSU campuses listened to García’s plans for increasing academic success, graduation rates and hiring rates in the coming few years. \u003cbr>\u003cbr>“The CSU has never been and will not now be reckless with our students’ futures,” García said at the symposium.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“Personally, I’m a waitress on Fridays so that I can make ends meet,” Scherini said. “If we’re having to juggle two, three jobs to make ends meet, that’s going to directly impact their learning outcomes.” She said she has been going to AI training sessions, but the policies around how AI usage on campus are still vague.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“One of the major guardrails I hope to see come out is to make sure that artificial intelligence isn’t used to replace faculty and substitute for classroom learning,” Scherini added.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>San José State University spokesperson Michelle Smith McDonald told KQED at the event that the university is keeping its AI policies “more open” to allow professors and lecturers to freely decide how they want it to be used in the classroom.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“The university hears those concerns, the provost hears those concerns, and it’s a matter of how prescriptive you are about AI and AI usage,” McDonald said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "The rally follows a recent impasse in contract negotiations between the faculty union and California State University.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">A group of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/california\">California\u003c/a> Faculty Association union members and students rallied in San José on Thursday to protest a speech by the state university system’s chancellor, demanding higher pay and more job security protections against AI.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Lecturers, faculty members and students from Sacramento and San José State University marched in the rain in front of the city’s Signia Hilton Hotel, which hosted California State University’s 2026 Student Success Symposium.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>Holding signs that read “CSU unfair to labor” and “Step up or strike out,” they called on CSU Chancellor Mildred García, who was giving a speech at the event. They chanted, “What do we want? Fair contracts! When do we want it? Now!”\u003cbr>\u003cbr>“We want to be heard at the bargaining table and let her know that faculty is present at San José State,” said Ginevra Marta Scherini, a lecturer at the university. “We want fair bargaining and good outcomes for our contracts.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/20240403_SJSUFILE_GC-11-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12037915\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/20240403_SJSUFILE_GC-11-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/20240403_SJSUFILE_GC-11-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/20240403_SJSUFILE_GC-11-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/20240403_SJSUFILE_GC-11-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/20240403_SJSUFILE_GC-11-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/20240403_SJSUFILE_GC-11-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Tower Hall at San José State University on April 3, 2025. (Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In July, the faculty union declared an impasse in contract negotiations after \u003ca href=\"https://www.calfac.org/cfa-declares-impasse-in-contract-bargaining-negotiations/\">CSU returned with a proposal\u003c/a> that would cut their health benefits. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Scherini, who said she’s been working at the university for five years and teaches in three different departments, still has to work a second job to afford living in the Bay.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">She also said she’s worried about how SJSU and CSU’s interest in AI will impact her job security.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.calstate.edu/impact-of-the-csu/technology/ai-empowered-csu/Pages/ai-timeline.aspx\">CSU launched its AI Initiative in 2025\u003c/a> with the goal of becoming the “nation’s first and largest AI-empowered university system,” partnering with the governor’s office, Adobe, OpenAI, NVIDIA and other tech companies to implement more AI tools for students, staff and faculty members.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Upstairs, above the lobby, administrators and presidents from each of the 22 CSU campuses listened to García’s plans for increasing academic success, graduation rates and hiring rates in the coming few years. \u003cbr>\u003cbr>“The CSU has never been and will not now be reckless with our students’ futures,” García said at the symposium.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“Personally, I’m a waitress on Fridays so that I can make ends meet,” Scherini said. “If we’re having to juggle two, three jobs to make ends meet, that’s going to directly impact their learning outcomes.” She said she has been going to AI training sessions, but the policies around how AI usage on campus are still vague.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“One of the major guardrails I hope to see come out is to make sure that artificial intelligence isn’t used to replace faculty and substitute for classroom learning,” Scherini added.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">San José State University spokesperson Michelle Smith McDonald told KQED at the event that the university is keeping its AI policies “more open” to allow professors and lecturers to freely decide how they want it to be used in the classroom.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">“The university hears those concerns, the provost hears those concerns, and it’s a matter of how prescriptive you are about AI and AI usage,” McDonald said.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "freeze-ai-now-bay-area-activists-rally-outside-openai-headquarters",
"title": "‘Freeze AI Now’: Bay Area Activists Rally Outside OpenAI Headquarters",
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"headTitle": "‘Freeze AI Now’: Bay Area Activists Rally Outside OpenAI Headquarters | KQED",
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"content": "\n\u003cp>Bay Area activists joined a nationwide walkout on Tuesday to demand a pause on the development of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/artificial-intelligence\">artificial intelligence\u003c/a>, so that the public — and Congress — can set development and use guardrails for the technology. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>About two dozen protesters held signs that read “We Didn’t Elect Big Tech” and “Water For People, Not Data Centers” outside of OpenAI’s office in San Francisco’s Mission Bay neighborhood.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>They joined activists across 50 U.S. cities and college campuses, including in Los Angeles, New York and Florida, where rallies had been organized by the nonprofit organization Irreplaceable.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Irreplaceable, founded by several climate activists, leaders of civil rights organizations and national labor unions, launched in August with the goal to “give voice to anxiety and anger about AI” and spur federal legislation regulating the technology.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261020-OPENAIPROTEST-02-BL-KQED-31c358f5.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12105419\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261020-OPENAIPROTEST-02-BL-KQED-31c358f5.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261020-OPENAIPROTEST-02-BL-KQED-31c358f5-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261020-OPENAIPROTEST-02-BL-KQED-31c358f5-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Max Blair, an organizer with Stop the AI Race, speaks during a rally calling for a freeze on artificial intelligence development outside OpenAI’s headquarters in San Francisco during a walkout on Oct. 20, 2026. (Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Jeremy Ornstein, an organizer with Irreplaceable, spoke to the protesters outside OpenAI’s office. “The world is about to change,” he said. “AI is being advanced so quickly, [and] the people building it know that catastrophes, critical catastrophes, are going to hit everyday people as soon as next year. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“But there’s another kind of change that’s coming too,” he continued. “There’s thousands of people who are demanding … a freeze on AI until it can be under public control and benefit us.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Irreplaceable’s \u003ca href=\"https://irreplaceable.org/\">website\u003c/a> makes the case that people are “irreplaceable by AI.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Its executive director, Phil Aroneanu, previously co-founded \u003ca href=\"http://350.org\">350.org\u003c/a>, a grassroots climate movement pushing for the transition from fossil fuels to renewable energy.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“We’re building a movement to Freeze AI Now. It’s time for the people to determine the future of AI, not big tech CEOs,” Irreplaceable’s website reads. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The organization has laid out a \u003ca href=\"https://irreplaceable.org/our-plan\">three-year plan:\u003c/a> To coalesce a base of Americans angry and concerned about AI development in 2026, develop a “shared federal agenda on AI” in 2027 and launch a pressure campaign on politicians in 2028, the year of the next presidential election.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>But it hasn’t given details about what regulations and legislation it hopes to see those politicians pass. \u003cem>The Atlantic\u003c/em> in August \u003ca href=\"https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/2026/08/irreplaceable-climate-activists-ai-backlash/688404/\">reported\u003c/a> that another climate activist behind the project, Sunrise Movement co-founder William Lawrence, said a concrete agenda would come later. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>But there doesn’t seem to be consensus yet on what that plan will look like.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Even sisters Junia and Gwen Martens, who came to the San Francisco protest from Berkeley High School, have different opinions on how far regulation should go. Gwen, 14, thinks “AI should be stopped,” but Junia, 16, wants to see regulation and education about the technology in schools.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-3 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105421\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261020-OPENAIPROTEST-04-BL-KQED-a8c952db.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12105421\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261020-OPENAIPROTEST-04-BL-KQED-a8c952db.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261020-OPENAIPROTEST-04-BL-KQED-a8c952db-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261020-OPENAIPROTEST-04-BL-KQED-a8c952db-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Gwendolyn (center), 14, protests during a walkout and rally calling for a freeze on artificial intelligence development outside OpenAI’s headquarters in San Francisco on Oct. 20, 2026. (Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105424\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261020-OPENAIPROTEST-09-BL-KQED-8416bf38.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12105424\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261020-OPENAIPROTEST-09-BL-KQED-8416bf38.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261020-OPENAIPROTEST-09-BL-KQED-8416bf38-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261020-OPENAIPROTEST-09-BL-KQED-8416bf38-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Junia, 16, speaks during a rally calling for a freeze on artificial intelligence development outside OpenAI’s headquarters in San Francisco during a walkout on Oct. 20, 2026. (Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“I kind of disagree with my sister. I think that AI can be helpful in a lot of different situations,” Junia told KQED. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Junia and a classmate are co-presidents of a club at Berkeley High, called AI Effects and Consequences, which talks to elementary and middle school students about AI and its effects.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>That “lets the students form their own opinions,” she said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The sisters are in agreement, though, about cutting back on AI use in schools. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“I don’t use generative AI,” Gwen said. “It really stops you from thinking, which is how you learn. That is my worst fear. I would never want to dim down my education.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>She said “few” of her other classmates agree.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>KQED’s \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/shossaini\">\u003cem>Sara Hossaini\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem> contributed to this report.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Irreplaceable’s \u003ca href=\"https://irreplaceable.org/\">website\u003c/a> makes the case that people are “irreplaceable by AI.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“We’re building a movement to Freeze AI Now. It’s time for the people to determine the future of AI, not big tech CEOs,” Irreplaceable’s website reads. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The organization has laid out a \u003ca href=\"https://irreplaceable.org/our-plan\">three-year plan:\u003c/a> To coalesce a base of Americans angry and concerned about AI development in 2026, develop a “shared federal agenda on AI” in 2027 and launch a pressure campaign on politicians in 2028, the year of the next presidential election.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>But it hasn’t given details about what regulations and legislation it hopes to see those politicians pass. \u003cem>The Atlantic\u003c/em> in August \u003ca href=\"https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/2026/08/irreplaceable-climate-activists-ai-backlash/688404/\">reported\u003c/a> that another climate activist behind the project, Sunrise Movement co-founder William Lawrence, said a concrete agenda would come later. \u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>Bay Area activists joined a nationwide walkout on Tuesday to demand a pause on the development of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/artificial-intelligence\">artificial intelligence\u003c/a>, so that the public — and Congress — can set development and use guardrails for the technology. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>About two dozen protesters held signs that read “We Didn’t Elect Big Tech” and “Water For People, Not Data Centers” outside of OpenAI’s office in San Francisco’s Mission Bay neighborhood.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>They joined activists across 50 U.S. cities and college campuses, including in Los Angeles, New York and Florida, where rallies had been organized by the nonprofit organization Irreplaceable.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Irreplaceable, founded by several climate activists, leaders of civil rights organizations and national labor unions, launched in August with the goal to “give voice to anxiety and anger about AI” and spur federal legislation regulating the technology.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261020-OPENAIPROTEST-02-BL-KQED-31c358f5.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12105419\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261020-OPENAIPROTEST-02-BL-KQED-31c358f5.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261020-OPENAIPROTEST-02-BL-KQED-31c358f5-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261020-OPENAIPROTEST-02-BL-KQED-31c358f5-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Max Blair, an organizer with Stop the AI Race, speaks during a rally calling for a freeze on artificial intelligence development outside OpenAI’s headquarters in San Francisco during a walkout on Oct. 20, 2026. (Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Jeremy Ornstein, an organizer with Irreplaceable, spoke to the protesters outside OpenAI’s office. “The world is about to change,” he said. “AI is being advanced so quickly, [and] the people building it know that catastrophes, critical catastrophes, are going to hit everyday people as soon as next year. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“But there’s another kind of change that’s coming too,” he continued. “There’s thousands of people who are demanding … a freeze on AI until it can be under public control and benefit us.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Irreplaceable’s \u003ca href=\"https://irreplaceable.org/\">website\u003c/a> makes the case that people are “irreplaceable by AI.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Its executive director, Phil Aroneanu, previously co-founded \u003ca href=\"http://350.org\">350.org\u003c/a>, a grassroots climate movement pushing for the transition from fossil fuels to renewable energy.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“We’re building a movement to Freeze AI Now. It’s time for the people to determine the future of AI, not big tech CEOs,” Irreplaceable’s website reads. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The organization has laid out a \u003ca href=\"https://irreplaceable.org/our-plan\">three-year plan:\u003c/a> To coalesce a base of Americans angry and concerned about AI development in 2026, develop a “shared federal agenda on AI” in 2027 and launch a pressure campaign on politicians in 2028, the year of the next presidential election.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>But it hasn’t given details about what regulations and legislation it hopes to see those politicians pass. \u003cem>The Atlantic\u003c/em> in August \u003ca href=\"https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/2026/08/irreplaceable-climate-activists-ai-backlash/688404/\">reported\u003c/a> that another climate activist behind the project, Sunrise Movement co-founder William Lawrence, said a concrete agenda would come later. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>But there doesn’t seem to be consensus yet on what that plan will look like.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Even sisters Junia and Gwen Martens, who came to the San Francisco protest from Berkeley High School, have different opinions on how far regulation should go. Gwen, 14, thinks “AI should be stopped,” but Junia, 16, wants to see regulation and education about the technology in schools.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-default is-cropped wp-block-gallery-3 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105421\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261020-OPENAIPROTEST-04-BL-KQED-a8c952db.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12105421\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261020-OPENAIPROTEST-04-BL-KQED-a8c952db.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261020-OPENAIPROTEST-04-BL-KQED-a8c952db-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261020-OPENAIPROTEST-04-BL-KQED-a8c952db-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Gwendolyn (center), 14, protests during a walkout and rally calling for a freeze on artificial intelligence development outside OpenAI’s headquarters in San Francisco on Oct. 20, 2026. (Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" data-id=\"12105424\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261020-OPENAIPROTEST-09-BL-KQED-8416bf38.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12105424\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261020-OPENAIPROTEST-09-BL-KQED-8416bf38.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261020-OPENAIPROTEST-09-BL-KQED-8416bf38-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261020-OPENAIPROTEST-09-BL-KQED-8416bf38-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Junia, 16, speaks during a rally calling for a freeze on artificial intelligence development outside OpenAI’s headquarters in San Francisco during a walkout on Oct. 20, 2026. (Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“I kind of disagree with my sister. I think that AI can be helpful in a lot of different situations,” Junia told KQED. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Junia and a classmate are co-presidents of a club at Berkeley High, called AI Effects and Consequences, which talks to elementary and middle school students about AI and its effects.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>That “lets the students form their own opinions,” she said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The sisters are in agreement, though, about cutting back on AI use in schools. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“I don’t use generative AI,” Gwen said. “It really stops you from thinking, which is how you learn. That is my worst fear. I would never want to dim down my education.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>She said “few” of her other classmates agree.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>KQED’s \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/shossaini\">\u003cem>Sara Hossaini\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem> contributed to this report.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "SF Billionaire Chris Larsen on AI: ‘This Is an Incredibly Dangerous Moment’",
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"content": "\n\u003cp>San Francisco crypto billionaire Chris Larsen has become an increasingly engaged and potent political force in Democratic politics. He’s funded surveillance technology like Flock cameras in the city and poured tens of millions of dollars into the state’s legislative races this election cycle. As much of his tech peers rally around President Donald Trump, Larsen remains a staunch Democrat.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Larsen joins Marisa in studio to discuss where he disagrees with his son on surveillance technology, his bold call to “shut down all the data centers until we get goddamn regulations,” why he opposes the billionaire tax initiative Proposition 40 and what kind of candidates he’s supporting through his super PAC Grow California. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\">\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\nhttps://youtu.be/eL-SA_D8tCQ\n\u003c/div>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Don’t forget to use \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">KQED’s voter guide\u003c/a> when filling out your ballot!\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Plus, check out \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/newsletters/political-breakdown\">Political Breakdown’s weekly newsletter\u003c/a>, delivered straight to your inbox.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Don’t forget to use \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">KQED’s voter guide\u003c/a> when filling out your ballot!\u003c/p>\n"
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"excerpt": "Larsen once called for a \"middle path\" on the AI arms race but now says we need to \"shut down all the data centers.\" ",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>San Francisco crypto billionaire Chris Larsen has become an increasingly engaged and potent political force in Democratic politics. He’s funded surveillance technology like Flock cameras in the city and poured tens of millions of dollars into the state’s legislative races this election cycle. As much of his tech peers rally around President Donald Trump, Larsen remains a staunch Democrat.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Larsen joins Marisa in studio to discuss where he disagrees with his son on surveillance technology, his bold call to “shut down all the data centers until we get goddamn regulations,” why he opposes the billionaire tax initiative Proposition 40 and what kind of candidates he’s supporting through his super PAC Grow California. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\">\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/eL-SA_D8tCQ'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/eL-SA_D8tCQ'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/div>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Don’t forget to use \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">KQED’s voter guide\u003c/a> when filling out your ballot!\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Plus, check out \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/newsletters/political-breakdown\">Political Breakdown’s weekly newsletter\u003c/a>, delivered straight to your inbox.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "San Francisco Is Ground Zero for AI. How Would Congressional Candidates Push for Regulation?",
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"content": "\n\u003cp>At the center of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/artificial-intelligence\">artificial intelligence\u003c/a> boom, candidates looking to represent San Francisco in Washington appear aligned on a common goal: AI must be regulated. But how to do that is where the debate really heats up. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>State Sen. Scott Wiener and San Francisco Supervisor Connie Chan are vying for Rep. Nancy Pelosi’s seat in Congress as the former House speaker prepares to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12062796/nancy-pelosi-leaves-congress-after-38-years-defining-generations-of-democratic-power\">retire\u003c/a> after nearly four decades. They’re competing for votes at a time when concerns are rising around AI, from mass job loss to automated data privacy hacks and computer-driven nuclear war. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“Consumers have not seen such rapid change with any new technology. I mean, you could look to the internet, you could to railroads, you can go all the way back and look at industrialization in the 1800s, but we’ve just never seen this sort of rapid development,” said Michele Neitz, a professor of law, technology and social transformation at the University of San Francisco School of Law. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Currently, there is no comprehensive federal framework regulating AI, and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12102152/experts-urge-federal-lawmakers-to-regulate-ai-will-anyone-heed-their-alarm\">experts following AI\u003c/a> development closely say it’s time for lawmakers in Washington to set up guardrails even as President Donald Trump has suggested \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12103983/ai-founders-cheer-trumps-calls-for-the-industry-to-police-itself-on-safety\">AI companies will regulate themselves\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/kqed-debate-1-copy-2-scaled-e1790958307792.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12102554\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">State Sen. Scott Wiener during a debate with San Francisco Supervisor Connie Chan at KQED in San Francisco on Thursday, Oct. 1, 2026. The two Democrats are running for California’s 11th District, a seat Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi is leaving. KQED and the San Francisco Chronicle co-hosted the debate. (Santiago Mejia/S.F. Chronicle/Pool)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“That rapid development is happening more quickly than our political system can keep up,” Neitz said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Wiener has long been vocal about the need to regulate and increase transparency around AI, and authored the country’s first \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12058013/newsom-signs-california-ai-transparency-bill-tailored-to-meet-tech-industry-tastes\">AI transparency bill\u003c/a>, which California passed in 2025. His first attempt at an AI safety bill included a “kill-switch” for disastrous scenarios and other safeguards; however, that bill was vetoed by Gov. Gavin Newsom. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The bill that did pass, SB 53, has since been adapted around the country, including by New York City, and other places like Connecticut have gone on to add even more comprehensive AI legislation focused on areas like education and workforce mandates. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Along the campaign trail, Wiener has leaned into that legislative experience and touted being an early advocate for AI safety. His vision for Congress is to create a federal regulatory body to oversee AI security, increase guardrails and protect whistleblowers, and expand unemployment to brace for waves of job displacement. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In a video advertisement, Wiener tells viewers that “AI is getting more powerful by the day, and the risks are very real.” He said that in Washington, he would continue to seek the kill-switch approach, along with more legal liability and safety standards and cooperation with other countries on AI safety.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Wiener has also said that AI data centers should pick up the tab for their environmental costs, and he supports transitioning data centers towards greener energy, rather than a full ban on new facilities.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Chan meanwhile has taken what Neitz said is the more “populist” approach, calling for a full moratorium on data centers and giving unions and AI workers a voice in regulation.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In her own video on the topic, Chan pointed to a $3.9 billion tax break that Meta received last year to build data centers. “We’re going to regulate artificial intelligence to make sure we can protect our workforce and prioritize safety for the American people,” she said. “No more tax breaks for these billionaires and tech corporations.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>She’s also criticized her opponent’s AI safety bill, calling it “watered down” and influenced by big tech interests. The bill also did not prevent major cyberattacks this year, where AI models \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12092162/how-openais-models-escaped-their-sandbox-and-slipped-past-californias-ai-law\">hacked into other platforms\u003c/a> and breached government websites. Chan said the companies overseeing the models, OpenAI and Anthropic, should “absolutely” be held liable for the attacks. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“Instead of waiting for something catastrophic to happen and to have a so-called kill switch, it is important to have human oversight during the developmental phase of the technology,” Chan said at a debate this week hosted by \u003cem>Mission Local\u003c/em> and the \u003cem>New York Times\u003c/em>. “Can we trust the AI industries to police and regulate themselves? And can we trust any politicians who are bankrolled by the AI industry? I say no.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The advocacy group Public First Action, which is pushing for more AI regulation and has received money from the AI company Anthropic, has poured $3 million into Abundant Future, an independent expenditure committee supporting Wiener, Punchbowl News first reported. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/kqed-debate-3-scaled-e1790958264709.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12102556\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">San Francisco Supervisor Connie Chan during her debate with state Sen. Scott Wiener at KQED in San Francisco on Thursday, Oct. 1, 2026. The two Democrats are running for California’s 11th District, a seat Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi is leaving. KQED and the San Francisco Chronicle co-hosted the debate. (Santiago Mejia/S.F. Chronicle/Pool)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Wiener, in the debate this week, said, “That PAC supports candidates who are pro-AI regulation, and because I have actually regulated AI and will lead in regulating AI in Congress, that is my understanding of why that PAC is supporting me.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>He went on to defend his record, saying he “went to war with big tech to pass AI regulation in California.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In September, tech titans including Anthropic’s Dario Amodei and OpenAI’s Sam Altman, both leading San Francisco-based companies, made headlines for sounding the alarm about potentially devastating impacts of AI on humanity and called for regulations. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>But AI CEOs are not all in agreement on the issue. Others are advocating for self-regulation in order not to hinder development of the technology or risk falling behind China’s AI advancements. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1618\" height=\"1078\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/AP26272702876598-c2e61000.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12103984\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/AP26272702876598-c2e61000.jpg 1618w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/AP26272702876598-c2e61000-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/AP26272702876598-c2e61000-1536x1023.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1618px) 100vw, 1618px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">President Donald Trump, center, next to Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang, left, and Elon Musk, right, speaks in the East Room of the White House in Washington on Sept. 29, 2026, surrounded by top executives of AI firms including, from top left, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella, Greg Brockman, President of OpenAI, House Speaker Mike Johnson, AMD CEO Lisa Su, Palo Alto Networks Chief Executive Nikesh Arora and David Sacks. (Jacquelyn Martin/AP Photo)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>President Donald Trump has pushed back against regulatory guardrails for AI, previously calling doomsday threats a “hoax.” In September, he signed a document with executives at Google, Anthropic, Meta, OpenAI, Nvidia and SpaceX that calls for “robust internal processes and controls to ensure that their technology behaves as intended.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Both Chan and Wiener don’t trust the idea. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“We must not allow the tech companies to write their own self-regulation,” Wiener said. “We need Congress to step up and regulate tech to make sure technology is serving the public and not harming the public, and that will be a priority for me.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Slowing down AI development has become the biggest political issue for many in the Bay Area. Wynd Kaufman, a retired former engineering teacher at City College of San Francisco, was one of several protesters arrested outside of the OpenAI headquarters last year, months before its CEO came out warning about the technology’s potential downsides. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“Politicians are realizing that people do not want AI. We don’t want our environment degradation. We don’t want our rivers to run dry. We want our humanity and our privacy,” she said at an anti-AI protest on Thursday. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Local politicians are weighing, too. In San Francisco, the Board of Supervisors recently \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12099583/san-francisco-supervisors-push-for-moratorium-on-new-data-centers\">passed a 45-day moratorium\u003c/a> on allowing new data centers, which use tremendous amounts of energy to train and run AI models. The board’s decision followed nationwide trends where communities have pushed back on opening up new data centers.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>But negative sentiment around AI has put San Francisco leaders in a bind, particularly business-friendly leaders who are banking on the AI industry to revive the city’s local economy. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The Bay Area region has added more than 20,000 AI jobs over the past year, even amid massive waves of layoffs and overall contraction of the tech industry, according to CBRE’s 2026 Scoring Tech Talent report.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“The concentration of talent, venture capital, leading universities and innovative companies continues to make the Bay Area the premier destination for AI development and investment,” said Colin Yasukochi, executive director of CBRE Tech Insights.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>For whichever candidate wins, the questions around AI safety are not likely going away soon. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>According to Neitz, “2027 is going to be a big year in AI legislation regardless of the outcome of the midterms because the people are clamoring for it and Congress will need to respond.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>State Sen. Scott Wiener and San Francisco Supervisor Connie Chan are vying for Rep. Nancy Pelosi’s seat in Congress as the former House speaker prepares to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12062796/nancy-pelosi-leaves-congress-after-38-years-defining-generations-of-democratic-power\">retire\u003c/a> after nearly four decades. They’re competing for votes at a time when concerns are rising around AI, from mass job loss to automated data privacy hacks and computer-driven nuclear war. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>State Sen. Scott Wiener and San Francisco Supervisor Connie Chan are vying for Rep. Nancy Pelosi’s seat in Congress as the former House speaker prepares to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12062796/nancy-pelosi-leaves-congress-after-38-years-defining-generations-of-democratic-power\">retire\u003c/a> after nearly four decades. They’re competing for votes at a time when concerns are rising around AI, from mass job loss to automated data privacy hacks and computer-driven nuclear war. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“Consumers have not seen such rapid change with any new technology. I mean, you could look to the internet, you could to railroads, you can go all the way back and look at industrialization in the 1800s, but we’ve just never seen this sort of rapid development,” said Michele Neitz, a professor of law, technology and social transformation at the University of San Francisco School of Law. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Currently, there is no comprehensive federal framework regulating AI, and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12102152/experts-urge-federal-lawmakers-to-regulate-ai-will-anyone-heed-their-alarm\">experts following AI\u003c/a> development closely say it’s time for lawmakers in Washington to set up guardrails even as President Donald Trump has suggested \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12103983/ai-founders-cheer-trumps-calls-for-the-industry-to-police-itself-on-safety\">AI companies will regulate themselves\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“That rapid development is happening more quickly than our political system can keep up,” Neitz said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Wiener has long been vocal about the need to regulate and increase transparency around AI, and authored the country’s first \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12058013/newsom-signs-california-ai-transparency-bill-tailored-to-meet-tech-industry-tastes\">AI transparency bill\u003c/a>, which California passed in 2025. His first attempt at an AI safety bill included a “kill-switch” for disastrous scenarios and other safeguards; however, that bill was vetoed by Gov. Gavin Newsom. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The bill that did pass, SB 53, has since been adapted around the country, including by New York City, and other places like Connecticut have gone on to add even more comprehensive AI legislation focused on areas like education and workforce mandates. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The bill that did pass, SB 53, has since been adapted around the country, including by New York City, and other places like Connecticut have gone on to add even more comprehensive AI legislation focused on areas like education and workforce mandates. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Along the campaign trail, Wiener has leaned into that legislative experience and touted being an early advocate for AI safety. His vision for Congress is to create a federal regulatory body to oversee AI security, increase guardrails and protect whistleblowers, and expand unemployment to brace for waves of job displacement. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In a video advertisement, Wiener tells viewers that “AI is getting more powerful by the day, and the risks are very real.” He said that in Washington, he would continue to seek the kill-switch approach, along with more legal liability and safety standards and cooperation with other countries on AI safety.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>In a video advertisement, Wiener tells viewers that “AI is getting more powerful by the day, and the risks are very real.” He said that in Washington, he would continue to seek the kill-switch approach, along with more legal liability and safety standards and cooperation with other countries on AI safety.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Wiener has also said that AI data centers should pick up the tab for their environmental costs, and he supports transitioning data centers towards greener energy, rather than a full ban on new facilities.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Wiener has also said that AI data centers should pick up the tab for their environmental costs, and he supports transitioning data centers towards greener energy, rather than a full ban on new facilities.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Chan meanwhile has taken what Neitz said is the more “populist” approach, calling for a full moratorium on data centers and giving unions and AI workers a voice in regulation.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In her own video on the topic, Chan pointed to a $3.9 billion tax break that Meta received last year to build data centers. “We’re going to regulate artificial intelligence to make sure we can protect our workforce and prioritize safety for the American people,” she said. “No more tax breaks for these billionaires and tech corporations.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>In her own video on the topic, Chan pointed to a $3.9 billion tax break that Meta received last year to build data centers. “We’re going to regulate artificial intelligence to make sure we can protect our workforce and prioritize safety for the American people,” she said. “No more tax breaks for these billionaires and tech corporations.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>She’s also criticized her opponent’s AI safety bill, calling it “watered down” and influenced by big tech interests. The bill also did not prevent major cyberattacks this year, where AI models \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12092162/how-openais-models-escaped-their-sandbox-and-slipped-past-californias-ai-law\">hacked into other platforms\u003c/a> and breached government websites. Chan said the companies overseeing the models, OpenAI and Anthropic, should “absolutely” be held liable for the attacks. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>She’s also criticized her opponent’s AI safety bill, calling it “watered down” and influenced by big tech interests. The bill also did not prevent major cyberattacks this year, where AI models \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12092162/how-openais-models-escaped-their-sandbox-and-slipped-past-californias-ai-law\">hacked into other platforms\u003c/a> and breached government websites. Chan said the companies overseeing the models, OpenAI and Anthropic, should “absolutely” be held liable for the attacks. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“Instead of waiting for something catastrophic to happen and to have a so-called kill switch, it is important to have human oversight during the developmental phase of the technology,” Chan said at a debate this week hosted by \u003cem>Mission Local\u003c/em> and the \u003cem>New York Times\u003c/em>. “Can we trust the AI industries to police and regulate themselves? And can we trust any politicians who are bankrolled by the AI industry? I say no.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“Instead of waiting for something catastrophic to happen and to have a so-called kill switch, it is important to have human oversight during the developmental phase of the technology,” Chan said at a debate this week hosted by \u003cem>Mission Local\u003c/em> and the \u003cem>New York Times\u003c/em>. “Can we trust the AI industries to police and regulate themselves? And can we trust any politicians who are bankrolled by the AI industry? I say no.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The advocacy group Public First Action, which is pushing for more AI regulation and has received money from the AI company Anthropic, has poured $3 million into Abundant Future, an independent expenditure committee supporting Wiener, Punchbowl News first reported. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The advocacy group Public First Action, which is pushing for more AI regulation and has received money from the AI company Anthropic, has poured $3 million into Abundant Future, an independent expenditure committee supporting Wiener, Punchbowl News first reported. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/kqed-debate-3-scaled-e1790958264709.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12102556\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">San Francisco Supervisor Connie Chan during her debate with state Sen. Scott Wiener at KQED in San Francisco on Thursday, Oct. 1, 2026. The two Democrats are running for California’s 11th District, a seat Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi is leaving. KQED and the San Francisco Chronicle co-hosted the debate.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Santiago Mejia/S.F. Chronicle/Pool)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/kqed-debate-3-scaled-e1790958264709.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12102556\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">San Francisco Supervisor Connie Chan during her debate with state Sen. Scott Wiener at KQED in San Francisco on Thursday, Oct. 1, 2026. The two Democrats are running for California’s 11th District, a seat Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi is leaving. KQED and the San Francisco Chronicle co-hosted the debate.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Santiago Mejia/S.F. Chronicle/Pool)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Wiener, in the debate this week, said, “That PAC supports candidates who are pro-AI regulation, and because I have actually regulated AI and will lead in regulating AI in Congress, that is my understanding of why that PAC is supporting me.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>President Donald Trump has pushed back against regulatory guardrails for AI, previously calling doomsday threats a “hoax.” In September, he signed a document with executives at Google, Anthropic, Meta, OpenAI, Nvidia and SpaceX that calls for “robust internal processes and controls to ensure that their technology behaves as intended.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“We must not allow the tech companies to write their own self-regulation,” Wiener said. “We need Congress to step up and regulate tech to make sure technology is serving the public and not harming the public, and that will be a priority for me.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Slowing down AI development has become the biggest political issue for many in the Bay Area. Wynd Kaufman, a retired former engineering teacher at City College of San Francisco, was one of several protesters arrested outside of the OpenAI headquarters last year, months before its CEO came out warning about the technology’s potential downsides. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“Politicians are realizing that people do not want AI. We don’t want our environment degradation. We don’t want our rivers to run dry. We want our humanity and our privacy,” she said at an anti-AI protest on Thursday. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Local politicians are weighing, too. In San Francisco, the Board of Supervisors recently \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12099583/san-francisco-supervisors-push-for-moratorium-on-new-data-centers\">passed a 45-day moratorium\u003c/a> on allowing new data centers, which use tremendous amounts of energy to train and run AI models. The board’s decision followed nationwide trends where communities have pushed back on opening up new data centers.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>But negative sentiment around AI has put San Francisco leaders in a bind, particularly business-friendly leaders who are banking on the AI industry to revive the city’s local economy. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The Bay Area region has added more than 20,000 AI jobs over the past year, even amid massive waves of layoffs and overall contraction of the tech industry, according to CBRE’s 2026 Scoring Tech Talent report.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“The concentration of talent, venture capital, leading universities and innovative companies continues to make the Bay Area the premier destination for AI development and investment,” said Colin Yasukochi, executive director of CBRE Tech Insights.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>For whichever candidate wins, the questions around AI safety are not likely going away soon. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>According to Neitz, “2027 is going to be a big year in AI legislation regardless of the outcome of the midterms because the people are clamoring for it and Congress will need to respond.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"title": "San Francisco Is Ground Zero for AI. How Would Congressional Candidates Push for Regulation? | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>At the center of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/artificial-intelligence\">artificial intelligence\u003c/a> boom, candidates looking to represent San Francisco in Washington appear aligned on a common goal: AI must be regulated. But how to do that is where the debate really heats up. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>State Sen. Scott Wiener and San Francisco Supervisor Connie Chan are vying for Rep. Nancy Pelosi’s seat in Congress as the former House speaker prepares to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12062796/nancy-pelosi-leaves-congress-after-38-years-defining-generations-of-democratic-power\">retire\u003c/a> after nearly four decades. They’re competing for votes at a time when concerns are rising around AI, from mass job loss to automated data privacy hacks and computer-driven nuclear war. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“Consumers have not seen such rapid change with any new technology. I mean, you could look to the internet, you could to railroads, you can go all the way back and look at industrialization in the 1800s, but we’ve just never seen this sort of rapid development,” said Michele Neitz, a professor of law, technology and social transformation at the University of San Francisco School of Law. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Currently, there is no comprehensive federal framework regulating AI, and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12102152/experts-urge-federal-lawmakers-to-regulate-ai-will-anyone-heed-their-alarm\">experts following AI\u003c/a> development closely say it’s time for lawmakers in Washington to set up guardrails even as President Donald Trump has suggested \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12103983/ai-founders-cheer-trumps-calls-for-the-industry-to-police-itself-on-safety\">AI companies will regulate themselves\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/kqed-debate-1-copy-2-scaled-e1790958307792.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12102554\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">State Sen. Scott Wiener during a debate with San Francisco Supervisor Connie Chan at KQED in San Francisco on Thursday, Oct. 1, 2026. The two Democrats are running for California’s 11th District, a seat Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi is leaving. KQED and the San Francisco Chronicle co-hosted the debate. (Santiago Mejia/S.F. Chronicle/Pool)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“That rapid development is happening more quickly than our political system can keep up,” Neitz said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Wiener has long been vocal about the need to regulate and increase transparency around AI, and authored the country’s first \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12058013/newsom-signs-california-ai-transparency-bill-tailored-to-meet-tech-industry-tastes\">AI transparency bill\u003c/a>, which California passed in 2025. His first attempt at an AI safety bill included a “kill-switch” for disastrous scenarios and other safeguards; however, that bill was vetoed by Gov. Gavin Newsom. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The bill that did pass, SB 53, has since been adapted around the country, including by New York City, and other places like Connecticut have gone on to add even more comprehensive AI legislation focused on areas like education and workforce mandates. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Along the campaign trail, Wiener has leaned into that legislative experience and touted being an early advocate for AI safety. His vision for Congress is to create a federal regulatory body to oversee AI security, increase guardrails and protect whistleblowers, and expand unemployment to brace for waves of job displacement. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In a video advertisement, Wiener tells viewers that “AI is getting more powerful by the day, and the risks are very real.” He said that in Washington, he would continue to seek the kill-switch approach, along with more legal liability and safety standards and cooperation with other countries on AI safety.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Wiener has also said that AI data centers should pick up the tab for their environmental costs, and he supports transitioning data centers towards greener energy, rather than a full ban on new facilities.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Chan meanwhile has taken what Neitz said is the more “populist” approach, calling for a full moratorium on data centers and giving unions and AI workers a voice in regulation.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In her own video on the topic, Chan pointed to a $3.9 billion tax break that Meta received last year to build data centers. “We’re going to regulate artificial intelligence to make sure we can protect our workforce and prioritize safety for the American people,” she said. “No more tax breaks for these billionaires and tech corporations.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>She’s also criticized her opponent’s AI safety bill, calling it “watered down” and influenced by big tech interests. The bill also did not prevent major cyberattacks this year, where AI models \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12092162/how-openais-models-escaped-their-sandbox-and-slipped-past-californias-ai-law\">hacked into other platforms\u003c/a> and breached government websites. Chan said the companies overseeing the models, OpenAI and Anthropic, should “absolutely” be held liable for the attacks. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“Instead of waiting for something catastrophic to happen and to have a so-called kill switch, it is important to have human oversight during the developmental phase of the technology,” Chan said at a debate this week hosted by \u003cem>Mission Local\u003c/em> and the \u003cem>New York Times\u003c/em>. “Can we trust the AI industries to police and regulate themselves? And can we trust any politicians who are bankrolled by the AI industry? I say no.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The advocacy group Public First Action, which is pushing for more AI regulation and has received money from the AI company Anthropic, has poured $3 million into Abundant Future, an independent expenditure committee supporting Wiener, Punchbowl News first reported. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/kqed-debate-3-scaled-e1790958264709.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12102556\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">San Francisco Supervisor Connie Chan during her debate with state Sen. Scott Wiener at KQED in San Francisco on Thursday, Oct. 1, 2026. The two Democrats are running for California’s 11th District, a seat Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi is leaving. KQED and the San Francisco Chronicle co-hosted the debate. (Santiago Mejia/S.F. Chronicle/Pool)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Wiener, in the debate this week, said, “That PAC supports candidates who are pro-AI regulation, and because I have actually regulated AI and will lead in regulating AI in Congress, that is my understanding of why that PAC is supporting me.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>He went on to defend his record, saying he “went to war with big tech to pass AI regulation in California.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In September, tech titans including Anthropic’s Dario Amodei and OpenAI’s Sam Altman, both leading San Francisco-based companies, made headlines for sounding the alarm about potentially devastating impacts of AI on humanity and called for regulations. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>But AI CEOs are not all in agreement on the issue. Others are advocating for self-regulation in order not to hinder development of the technology or risk falling behind China’s AI advancements. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1618\" height=\"1078\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/AP26272702876598-c2e61000.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12103984\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/AP26272702876598-c2e61000.jpg 1618w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/AP26272702876598-c2e61000-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/AP26272702876598-c2e61000-1536x1023.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1618px) 100vw, 1618px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">President Donald Trump, center, next to Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang, left, and Elon Musk, right, speaks in the East Room of the White House in Washington on Sept. 29, 2026, surrounded by top executives of AI firms including, from top left, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella, Greg Brockman, President of OpenAI, House Speaker Mike Johnson, AMD CEO Lisa Su, Palo Alto Networks Chief Executive Nikesh Arora and David Sacks. (Jacquelyn Martin/AP Photo)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>President Donald Trump has pushed back against regulatory guardrails for AI, previously calling doomsday threats a “hoax.” In September, he signed a document with executives at Google, Anthropic, Meta, OpenAI, Nvidia and SpaceX that calls for “robust internal processes and controls to ensure that their technology behaves as intended.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Both Chan and Wiener don’t trust the idea. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“We must not allow the tech companies to write their own self-regulation,” Wiener said. “We need Congress to step up and regulate tech to make sure technology is serving the public and not harming the public, and that will be a priority for me.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Slowing down AI development has become the biggest political issue for many in the Bay Area. Wynd Kaufman, a retired former engineering teacher at City College of San Francisco, was one of several protesters arrested outside of the OpenAI headquarters last year, months before its CEO came out warning about the technology’s potential downsides. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“Politicians are realizing that people do not want AI. We don’t want our environment degradation. We don’t want our rivers to run dry. We want our humanity and our privacy,” she said at an anti-AI protest on Thursday. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Local politicians are weighing, too. In San Francisco, the Board of Supervisors recently \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12099583/san-francisco-supervisors-push-for-moratorium-on-new-data-centers\">passed a 45-day moratorium\u003c/a> on allowing new data centers, which use tremendous amounts of energy to train and run AI models. The board’s decision followed nationwide trends where communities have pushed back on opening up new data centers.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>But negative sentiment around AI has put San Francisco leaders in a bind, particularly business-friendly leaders who are banking on the AI industry to revive the city’s local economy. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The Bay Area region has added more than 20,000 AI jobs over the past year, even amid massive waves of layoffs and overall contraction of the tech industry, according to CBRE’s 2026 Scoring Tech Talent report.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“The concentration of talent, venture capital, leading universities and innovative companies continues to make the Bay Area the premier destination for AI development and investment,” said Colin Yasukochi, executive director of CBRE Tech Insights.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>For whichever candidate wins, the questions around AI safety are not likely going away soon. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>According to Neitz, “2027 is going to be a big year in AI legislation regardless of the outcome of the midterms because the people are clamoring for it and Congress will need to respond.”\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "dont-skip-the-school-board-races-on-your-ballot-heres-why-they-could-be-pivotal",
"title": "Don’t Skip the School Board Races on Your Ballot. Here’s Why They Could Be Pivotal",
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"headTitle": "Don’t Skip the School Board Races on Your Ballot. Here’s Why They Could Be Pivotal | KQED",
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"content": "\n\u003cp>In \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/educationnews\">school districts\u003c/a> across the Bay Area, years of declining enrollment are forcing major cuts and closures; students’ math and reading scores are in a \u003ca href=\"https://cepr.harvard.edu/news/2026/05/why-us-test-scores-are-generation-long-decline\">free fall\u003c/a>; and campuses are being confronted with many of our major political fights, from transgender rights to AI regulation. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>But in many cases, the people elected to navigate these challenges earn that significant power by a margin as small as a couple hundred votes. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>More than half of school board candidates across the U.S. run uncontested in an average election cycle, and voter turnout hovers between 5% and 10%. And school board races tend to be “low information,” meaning voters know little about who the candidates are or where they stand on key issues, many of which are similar across districts throughout the state.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>KQED asked \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">390 candidates vying for 109 school board seats\u003c/a> across the nine-county Bay Area in November for their stance on some of these topics, from potential school closures to cellphone use — information voters can use at a time that education experts say is pivotal to public schools’ success. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“We have some unambiguously big problems for schools,” said Jon Valant, who directs the Brown Center on Education Policy at the Brookings Institution. “You can have a big impact, and you can have a big impact at a time when schools are facing a lot of important questions.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What do school boards actually do?\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>School boards oversee large budgets, act as major employers and make policy and curriculum decisions that affect thousands of young people — and have rippling impacts on their wider communities.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“[Public schools] are the primary institutions that we have for preparing people to be contributing members of our society, democracy and economy,” Valant said. “When you’re participating in a school board election, you’re really having a say in the structure of our society more broadly.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/20260806_SFUSDNEWSCHOOL_GC-8-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12094191\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/20260806_SFUSDNEWSCHOOL_GC-8-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/20260806_SFUSDNEWSCHOOL_GC-8-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/20260806_SFUSDNEWSCHOOL_GC-8-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A classroom at Mission Bay Elementary School in San Francisco on Aug. 6, 2026. Mission Bay School is the first new public SFUSD school to open in 20 years. (Gina Castro for KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The bodies have a few main functions: approving a school district’s budget — which for an urban district like San Francisco, tops $1.36 billion — and hiring and evaluating a superintendent, the person “who’s really responsible for running the system,” according to Julie Marsh, a faculty director at Policy Analysis for California Education.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>School boards set priorities, such as student outcome goals and community values, that are supposed to guide decision-making by the superintendent and district staff. They also approve curriculum and labor contracts and can steer high-level policy. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Culture war battlegrounds\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Less officially, school boards have also become political arenas.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“Schools and particularly school boards have really become some of the country’s main battlegrounds for its culture wars,” Valant said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>He traces the trend back to the COVID-19 pandemic, when some groups of parents began organizing and rallying against masking and vaccine mandates.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1571\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/MomsLibertyGetty-52a1d437.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12103881\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/MomsLibertyGetty-52a1d437.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/MomsLibertyGetty-52a1d437-160x126.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/MomsLibertyGetty-52a1d437-1536x1207.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Martha Aguilera, left, with Karen Frost of Moms for Liberty, speaks at the California Policy Center and PERK (Protection of the Educational Rights of Kids) event, “A Line in the Sand, A Rally for Parental Rights,” at Rancho Madera Community Park in Simi Valley, California, on Sept. 26, 2023. (Myung J. Chun/Los Angeles Times via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Around the same time, groups like \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101904708/conservative-mothers-as-a-political-force-in-california\">Moms for Liberty\u003c/a> were on the rise, advocating against curriculum that teaches about LGBTQ rights and race and ethnicity. They began running school board candidates and establishing a sustained presence at school board meetings, sowing fear that public schools are pushing “woke indoctrination.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“We’ve seen far-right leaders who have been quite successful with this approach where they run well-funded groups, organize and run a candidate on an ideological platform,” Marsh said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>She and other experts said the rise of candidates running for the nonpartisan roles backed by political interest groups became especially prominent in the early 2020s. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>While these groups’ influence on school board races seems to be dying down in California, Valant said a recent national Brookings survey found that school board members still feel their governance has become more political and partisan in recent years. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Marsh said that conservative groups have also used the tactic to upend trust in school systems more broadly and “mobilize their base.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“There’s a whole strategy of creating a bench for potential candidates for higher office,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1372\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/06/Sonja-Shaw-Getty-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12086196\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/06/Sonja-Shaw-Getty-1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/06/Sonja-Shaw-Getty-1-160x110.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/06/Sonja-Shaw-Getty-1-1536x1054.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Sonja Shaw, Chino Valley Unified School District Board President, speaks at the California Policy Center and PERK (Protection of the Educational Rights of Kids) event, “A Line in the Sand: A Rally for Parental Rights,” at Rancho Madera Community Park in Simi Valley, California, on Sept. 26, 2023. (Myung J. Chun/Los Angeles Times via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Sonja Shaw, who is in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12086044/conservative-activist-sonja-shaw-advances-in-state-superintendent-race\">runoff election for California state superintendent\u003c/a> this November, rose to notoriety as Chino Valley’s school board president in 2023, when she pushed for a policy that would require school staff to notify parents of any change in their children’s gender identity. Shaw made headlines after current state Superintendent Tony Thurmond was heckled and removed from her district’s board meeting after he expressed opposition to the policy. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The policy was permanently halted in 2024, after a lawsuit from Attorney General Rob Bonta, along with similar campaigns to implement “forced outing” in Rocklin and counties in Southern California.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>President Donald Trump also harnessed fear surrounding schools’ policies around LGBTQ students in the final stretch of his 2024 reelection campaign, telling a crowd of about 20,000 at Madison Square Garden, “we will get … transgender insanity the hell out of our schools.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>He repeatedly told voters: “your kid goes to school and comes home a few days later with an operation,” changing their sex.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">‘Big, big issues’\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>While “culture war politics” draw attention and tend to spur single-issue candidates to run for school boards, Valant said, “we need really to be focused on some of the core issues in education.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“[Artificial intelligence] has kind of landed on schools’ laps, and questions about how technology should be embedded into the school day,” he said. “We’ve seen achievement declines across the country and growing gaps between the highest- and lowest-scoring students. We’ve seen chronic absenteeism and enrollment declines.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“And, we’ve seen a growing attack on public education across the country,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/LAUSDScreenTimeGetty-d975feb9.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12103883\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/LAUSDScreenTimeGetty-d975feb9.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/LAUSDScreenTimeGetty-d975feb9-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/LAUSDScreenTimeGetty-d975feb9-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Nick Melvoin, Member of the Los Angeles Unified School District, speaks during a board meeting at the LAUSD headquarters on April 21, 2026, in Los Angeles, California. The LAUSD met to discuss a resolution calling for development of a Screen Time Policy setting time limits by grade, including elimination of student digital devices for early education through first grade, prohibiting device use by elementary and middle school students during passing periods, lunch and recess. The board unanimously voted to approve Board Member Melvoin’s Resolution to limit student screen time. (Kayla Bartkowski/Los Angeles Times via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Many of the boards elected this November will be tasked with deciding how their districts will weather shrinking student bodies, and whether to close schools as part of that process.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/school-closures\">closure process\u003c/a> is almost always met with strong opposition from families and teachers, but how districts approach it can significantly change how it affects enrollment and trust.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>San Francisco’s former superintendent \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12010008/sf-schools-crisis-is-spiraling-with-top-official-to-resign-heres-all-thats-happened\">resigned under pressure\u003c/a> in 2024 after a botched closure process that strained relationships with the district’s labor unions and many families. But earlier this year, the school board \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12095382/as-sfusd-welcomes-back-students-officials-plan-to-revamp-enrollment-consider-closures\">reopened the question of school consolidations\u003c/a>, giving Superintendent Maria Su a strict deadline of 2030 to decide whether campuses should shutter. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The board — including the three members who will be elected this fall — will have final approval over her plan.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Campus closures can upend longstanding school communities, and National School Board Association president Verjeana McCotter-Jacobs said they have rippling effects on nearby businesses, property values and neighborhood populations if they spur families to move.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Of the 140 Bay Area school board candidates who responded to KQED’s question about school closures, 57% said they would consider supporting a proposal from their district to close schools, while 43% said they would oppose the practice.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Boards are also setting the course for the future of technology in classrooms, as parent-led backlash expands across the country, blaming overreliance on screens and artificial intelligence for poor learning outcomes. According to a joint Education Scorecard project from researchers at Stanford, Harvard and Dartmouth universities, falling test scores reflect a \u003ca href=\"https://cepr.harvard.edu/news/2026/05/why-us-test-scores-are-generation-long-decline\">decadelong “learning recession.”\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In the spring, the Los Angeles Unified School District board passed a slate of historic tech-limiting policies, proposed by board member Nick Melvoin, with advocacy group Schools Beyond Screens. Districts across the country have moved quickly to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12096557/a-chromebook-in-the-hand-of-every-child-did-schools-go-too-far\">replicate their model\u003c/a>, including in the Bay Area, from San José to Marin.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Last week, the Oakland school board approved new technology restrictions, proposed by board member Rachel Latta, that prohibit students from using individual devices during lunch and passing periods, and mandate training for teachers to reduce 1:1 device use by the fall of 2027. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Other districts in San Francisco, San Mateo and Palo Alto have formed ad hoc committees or working groups to consider stricter tech policies, which will be presented to their new boards in the spring.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>San Francisco’s public school district is relatively behind on limiting tech use — the current board allowed administrators to punt on a stricter cellphone policy last spring, and it uses a controversial AI-assisted reading assessment and tutoring tool with kindergarteners.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Combatting federal attacks\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Voters aren’t just choosing who will make major instructional decisions at their local school districts; Valant said voting in school board elections this November will send an important message amid what he calls a “federal attack” on public schools.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“Staying engaged with school boards, with education, with your local public school, is just really important in communicating that public schools are institutions that mean a lot to this country,” he said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Since taking office last year, Trump has signed an executive order directing the dismantling of the Department of Education and created a federal \u003ca href=\"https://www.ed.gov/media/document/education-freedom-tax-credit-fact-sheet-113147.pdf\">Education Freedom Scholarship Program\u003c/a>, which aims to expand parents’ school choice by allowing them to receive tax credits up to $1,700 that can be used to pay for private school tuition, home-schooling costs, and other educational support.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/07/GettyImages-2285787606-scaled-e1791586238561.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12091600\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">U.S. President Donald Trump addresses the nation from the East Room of the White House on July 16, 2026, in Washington, D.C. (Saul Loeb/Pool via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“Those together are the biggest change in school policy since at least the early 1990s,” said professor Doug Harris, the director of the National Center for Research on Education Access and Choice at Tulane University. “The idea of open access or universal access to schools is upended. Public education has always involved some public governance, and this eliminates [that].”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Valant called the universal private school choice policies, adopted by more than half of U.S. states, not including California, “intentionally hostile to public schools.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>While the federal government has suggested that school choice increases competition and will improve public schools, Valant and others worry it will siphon funds away from the public system and toward schools that are able to select which students they serve — and often teach religious material.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The Trump administration has also threatened to withhold federal dollars from school districts that teach about diversity, equity and inclusion, or promote policies that protect transgender students. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In June, the Department of Education launched compliance reviews into SFUSD and three Monterey County school districts over their policies and materials related to gender identity and sexual orientation.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/06/MariaSuAP2.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12086920\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/06/MariaSuAP2.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/06/MariaSuAP2-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/06/MariaSuAP2-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">San Francisco Unified School District Superintendent Dr. Maria Su testifies during a House Education and Workforce Committee hearing on parental rights and school content policies, on June 10, 2026, in Washington. (Kevin Wolf/AP Photo)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Later that month, San Francisco Superintendent Su was \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12086522/congress-to-grill-san-francisco-schools-chief-maria-su-about-gender-ethnic-studies\">called to testify\u003c/a> before Congress about parental rights and “inappropriate” course curriculum.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>All of that adds up to a current moment that Marsh described as an attack on public education and democracy at large, adding that voting is essential to maintain those institutions.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“A democracy that focuses on the common good … actually requires people to look out for other kids, not just their own families,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“School boards are one of our few local institutions that are both defending democracy and public education,” she said. “The federal government can’t do anything about our boards — the school board system is well established, and I think we need to defend that.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“[Public schools] are the primary institutions that we have for preparing people to be contributing members of our society, democracy and economy,” Valant said. “When you’re participating in a school board election, you’re really having a say in the structure of our society more broadly.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/20260806_SFUSDNEWSCHOOL_GC-8-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12094191\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/20260806_SFUSDNEWSCHOOL_GC-8-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/20260806_SFUSDNEWSCHOOL_GC-8-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/20260806_SFUSDNEWSCHOOL_GC-8-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A classroom at Mission Bay Elementary School in San Francisco on Aug. 6, 2026. Mission Bay School is the first new public SFUSD school to open in 20 years.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Gina Castro for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/20260806_SFUSDNEWSCHOOL_GC-8-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12094191\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A classroom at Mission Bay Elementary School in San Francisco on Aug. 6, 2026. Mission Bay School is the first new public SFUSD school to open in 20 years.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Gina Castro for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The bodies have a few main functions: approving a school district’s budget — which for an urban district like San Francisco, tops $1.36 billion — and hiring and evaluating a superintendent, the person “who’s really responsible for running the system,” according to Julie Marsh, a faculty director at Policy Analysis for California Education.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The bodies have a few main functions: approving a school district’s budget — which for an urban district like San Francisco, tops $1.36 billion — and hiring and evaluating a superintendent, the person “who’s really responsible for running the system,” according to Julie Marsh, a faculty director at Policy Analysis for California Education.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>School boards set priorities, such as student outcome goals and community values, that are supposed to guide decision-making by the superintendent and district staff. They also approve curriculum and labor contracts and can steer high-level policy. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>School boards set priorities, such as student outcome goals and community values, that are supposed to guide decision-making by the superintendent and district staff. They also approve curriculum and labor contracts and can steer high-level policy. \u003c/p>\n"
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"text": "Culture war battlegrounds",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Culture war battlegrounds\u003c/h2>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Less officially, school boards have also become political arenas.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“Schools and particularly school boards have really become some of the country’s main battlegrounds for its culture wars,” Valant said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“Schools and particularly school boards have really become some of the country’s main battlegrounds for its culture wars,” Valant said. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>He traces the trend back to the COVID-19 pandemic, when some groups of parents began organizing and rallying against masking and vaccine mandates.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>He traces the trend back to the COVID-19 pandemic, when some groups of parents began organizing and rallying against masking and vaccine mandates.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/MomsLibertyGetty-52a1d437.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12103881\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/MomsLibertyGetty-52a1d437.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/MomsLibertyGetty-52a1d437-160x126.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/MomsLibertyGetty-52a1d437-1536x1207.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Martha Aguilera, left, with Karen Frost of Moms for Liberty, speaks at the California Policy Center and PERK (Protection of the Educational Rights of Kids) event, “A Line in the Sand, A Rally for Parental Rights,” at Rancho Madera Community Park in Simi Valley, California, on Sept. 26, 2023.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Myung J. Chun/Los Angeles Times via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/MomsLibertyGetty-52a1d437.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12103881\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Martha Aguilera, left, with Karen Frost of Moms for Liberty, speaks at the California Policy Center and PERK (Protection of the Educational Rights of Kids) event, “A Line in the Sand, A Rally for Parental Rights,” at Rancho Madera Community Park in Simi Valley, California, on Sept. 26, 2023.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Myung J. Chun/Los Angeles Times via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Around the same time, groups like \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101904708/conservative-mothers-as-a-political-force-in-california\">Moms for Liberty\u003c/a> were on the rise, advocating against curriculum that teaches about LGBTQ rights and race and ethnicity. They began running school board candidates and establishing a sustained presence at school board meetings, sowing fear that public schools are pushing “woke indoctrination.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Around the same time, groups like \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101904708/conservative-mothers-as-a-political-force-in-california\">Moms for Liberty\u003c/a> were on the rise, advocating against curriculum that teaches about LGBTQ rights and race and ethnicity. They began running school board candidates and establishing a sustained presence at school board meetings, sowing fear that public schools are pushing “woke indoctrination.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“We’ve seen far-right leaders who have been quite successful with this approach where they run well-funded groups, organize and run a candidate on an ideological platform,” Marsh said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“We’ve seen far-right leaders who have been quite successful with this approach where they run well-funded groups, organize and run a candidate on an ideological platform,” Marsh said. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>She and other experts said the rise of candidates running for the nonpartisan roles backed by political interest groups became especially prominent in the early 2020s. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>She and other experts said the rise of candidates running for the nonpartisan roles backed by political interest groups became especially prominent in the early 2020s. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>While these groups’ influence on school board races seems to be dying down in California, Valant said a recent national Brookings survey found that school board members still feel their governance has become more political and partisan in recent years. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>While these groups’ influence on school board races seems to be dying down in California, Valant said a recent national Brookings survey found that school board members still feel their governance has become more political and partisan in recent years. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Marsh said that conservative groups have also used the tactic to upend trust in school systems more broadly and “mobilize their base.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Marsh said that conservative groups have also used the tactic to upend trust in school systems more broadly and “mobilize their base.” \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“There’s a whole strategy of creating a bench for potential candidates for higher office,” she said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“There’s a whole strategy of creating a bench for potential candidates for higher office,” she said.\u003c/p>\n"
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"srcset": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/06/Sonja-Shaw-Getty-1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/06/Sonja-Shaw-Getty-1-160x110.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/06/Sonja-Shaw-Getty-1-1536x1054.jpg 1536w",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/06/Sonja-Shaw-Getty-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12086196\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/06/Sonja-Shaw-Getty-1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/06/Sonja-Shaw-Getty-1-160x110.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/06/Sonja-Shaw-Getty-1-1536x1054.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Sonja Shaw, Chino Valley Unified School District Board President, speaks at the California Policy Center and PERK (Protection of the Educational Rights of Kids) event, “A Line in the Sand: A Rally for Parental Rights,” at Rancho Madera Community Park in Simi Valley, California, on Sept. 26, 2023.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Myung J. Chun/Los Angeles Times via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/06/Sonja-Shaw-Getty-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12086196\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Sonja Shaw, Chino Valley Unified School District Board President, speaks at the California Policy Center and PERK (Protection of the Educational Rights of Kids) event, “A Line in the Sand: A Rally for Parental Rights,” at Rancho Madera Community Park in Simi Valley, California, on Sept. 26, 2023.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Myung J. Chun/Los Angeles Times via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Sonja Shaw, who is in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12086044/conservative-activist-sonja-shaw-advances-in-state-superintendent-race\">runoff election for California state superintendent\u003c/a> this November, rose to notoriety as Chino Valley’s school board president in 2023, when she pushed for a policy that would require school staff to notify parents of any change in their children’s gender identity. Shaw made headlines after current state Superintendent Tony Thurmond was heckled and removed from her district’s board meeting after he expressed opposition to the policy. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Sonja Shaw, who is in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12086044/conservative-activist-sonja-shaw-advances-in-state-superintendent-race\">runoff election for California state superintendent\u003c/a> this November, rose to notoriety as Chino Valley’s school board president in 2023, when she pushed for a policy that would require school staff to notify parents of any change in their children’s gender identity. Shaw made headlines after current state Superintendent Tony Thurmond was heckled and removed from her district’s board meeting after he expressed opposition to the policy. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The policy was permanently halted in 2024, after a lawsuit from Attorney General Rob Bonta, along with similar campaigns to implement “forced outing” in Rocklin and counties in Southern California.\u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>The policy was permanently halted in 2024, after a lawsuit from Attorney General Rob Bonta, along with similar campaigns to implement “forced outing” in Rocklin and counties in Southern California.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>President Donald Trump also harnessed fear surrounding schools’ policies around LGBTQ students in the final stretch of his 2024 reelection campaign, telling a crowd of about 20,000 at Madison Square Garden, “we will get … transgender insanity the hell out of our schools.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>President Donald Trump also harnessed fear surrounding schools’ policies around LGBTQ students in the final stretch of his 2024 reelection campaign, telling a crowd of about 20,000 at Madison Square Garden, “we will get … transgender insanity the hell out of our schools.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>He repeatedly told voters: “your kid goes to school and comes home a few days later with an operation,” changing their sex.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>He repeatedly told voters: “your kid goes to school and comes home a few days later with an operation,” changing their sex.\u003c/p>\n"
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"blockName": "core/heading",
"attrs": {
"text": "‘Big, big issues’",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">‘Big, big issues’\u003c/h2>\n",
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"\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">‘Big, big issues’\u003c/h2>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>While “culture war politics” draw attention and tend to spur single-issue candidates to run for school boards, Valant said, “we need really to be focused on some of the core issues in education.”\u003c/p>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cp>While “culture war politics” draw attention and tend to spur single-issue candidates to run for school boards, Valant said, “we need really to be focused on some of the core issues in education.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“[Artificial intelligence] has kind of landed on schools’ laps, and questions about how technology should be embedded into the school day,” he said. “We’ve seen achievement declines across the country and growing gaps between the highest- and lowest-scoring students. We’ve seen chronic absenteeism and enrollment declines.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“[Artificial intelligence] has kind of landed on schools’ laps, and questions about how technology should be embedded into the school day,” he said. “We’ve seen achievement declines across the country and growing gaps between the highest- and lowest-scoring students. We’ve seen chronic absenteeism and enrollment declines.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“And, we’ve seen a growing attack on public education across the country,” he said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“And, we’ve seen a growing attack on public education across the country,” he said.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/LAUSDScreenTimeGetty-d975feb9.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12103883\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/LAUSDScreenTimeGetty-d975feb9.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/LAUSDScreenTimeGetty-d975feb9-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/LAUSDScreenTimeGetty-d975feb9-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Nick Melvoin, Member of the Los Angeles Unified School District, speaks during a board meeting at the LAUSD headquarters on April 21, 2026, in Los Angeles, California. The LAUSD met to discuss a resolution calling for development of a Screen Time Policy setting time limits by grade, including elimination of student digital devices for early education through first grade, prohibiting device use by elementary and middle school students during passing periods, lunch and recess. The board unanimously voted to approve Board Member Melvoin’s Resolution to limit student screen time.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Kayla Bartkowski/Los Angeles Times via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
"innerContent": [
"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/LAUSDScreenTimeGetty-d975feb9.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12103883\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Nick Melvoin, Member of the Los Angeles Unified School District, speaks during a board meeting at the LAUSD headquarters on April 21, 2026, in Los Angeles, California. The LAUSD met to discuss a resolution calling for development of a Screen Time Policy setting time limits by grade, including elimination of student digital devices for early education through first grade, prohibiting device use by elementary and middle school students during passing periods, lunch and recess. The board unanimously voted to approve Board Member Melvoin’s Resolution to limit student screen time.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Kayla Bartkowski/Los Angeles Times via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Many of the boards elected this November will be tasked with deciding how their districts will weather shrinking student bodies, and whether to close schools as part of that process.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Many of the boards elected this November will be tasked with deciding how their districts will weather shrinking student bodies, and whether to close schools as part of that process.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/school-closures\">closure process\u003c/a> is almost always met with strong opposition from families and teachers, but how districts approach it can significantly change how it affects enrollment and trust.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/school-closures\">closure process\u003c/a> is almost always met with strong opposition from families and teachers, but how districts approach it can significantly change how it affects enrollment and trust.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>San Francisco’s former superintendent \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12010008/sf-schools-crisis-is-spiraling-with-top-official-to-resign-heres-all-thats-happened\">resigned under pressure\u003c/a> in 2024 after a botched closure process that strained relationships with the district’s labor unions and many families. But earlier this year, the school board \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12095382/as-sfusd-welcomes-back-students-officials-plan-to-revamp-enrollment-consider-closures\">reopened the question of school consolidations\u003c/a>, giving Superintendent Maria Su a strict deadline of 2030 to decide whether campuses should shutter. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The board — including the three members who will be elected this fall — will have final approval over her plan.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Campus closures can upend longstanding school communities, and National School Board Association president Verjeana McCotter-Jacobs said they have rippling effects on nearby businesses, property values and neighborhood populations if they spur families to move.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Of the 140 Bay Area school board candidates who responded to KQED’s question about school closures, 57% said they would consider supporting a proposal from their district to close schools, while 43% said they would oppose the practice.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Boards are also setting the course for the future of technology in classrooms, as parent-led backlash expands across the country, blaming overreliance on screens and artificial intelligence for poor learning outcomes. According to a joint Education Scorecard project from researchers at Stanford, Harvard and Dartmouth universities, falling test scores reflect a \u003ca href=\"https://cepr.harvard.edu/news/2026/05/why-us-test-scores-are-generation-long-decline\">decadelong “learning recession.”\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In the spring, the Los Angeles Unified School District board passed a slate of historic tech-limiting policies, proposed by board member Nick Melvoin, with advocacy group Schools Beyond Screens. Districts across the country have moved quickly to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12096557/a-chromebook-in-the-hand-of-every-child-did-schools-go-too-far\">replicate their model\u003c/a>, including in the Bay Area, from San José to Marin.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Last week, the Oakland school board approved new technology restrictions, proposed by board member Rachel Latta, that prohibit students from using individual devices during lunch and passing periods, and mandate training for teachers to reduce 1:1 device use by the fall of 2027. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Last week, the Oakland school board approved new technology restrictions, proposed by board member Rachel Latta, that prohibit students from using individual devices during lunch and passing periods, and mandate training for teachers to reduce 1:1 device use by the fall of 2027. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Other districts in San Francisco, San Mateo and Palo Alto have formed ad hoc committees or working groups to consider stricter tech policies, which will be presented to their new boards in the spring.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>San Francisco’s public school district is relatively behind on limiting tech use — the current board allowed administrators to punt on a stricter cellphone policy last spring, and it uses a controversial AI-assisted reading assessment and tutoring tool with kindergarteners.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>San Francisco’s public school district is relatively behind on limiting tech use — the current board allowed administrators to punt on a stricter cellphone policy last spring, and it uses a controversial AI-assisted reading assessment and tutoring tool with kindergarteners.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Voters aren’t just choosing who will make major instructional decisions at their local school districts; Valant said voting in school board elections this November will send an important message amid what he calls a “federal attack” on public schools.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Voters aren’t just choosing who will make major instructional decisions at their local school districts; Valant said voting in school board elections this November will send an important message amid what he calls a “federal attack” on public schools.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“Staying engaged with school boards, with education, with your local public school, is just really important in communicating that public schools are institutions that mean a lot to this country,” he said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Since taking office last year, Trump has signed an executive order directing the dismantling of the Department of Education and created a federal \u003ca href=\"https://www.ed.gov/media/document/education-freedom-tax-credit-fact-sheet-113147.pdf\">Education Freedom Scholarship Program\u003c/a>, which aims to expand parents’ school choice by allowing them to receive tax credits up to $1,700 that can be used to pay for private school tuition, home-schooling costs, and other educational support.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Since taking office last year, Trump has signed an executive order directing the dismantling of the Department of Education and created a federal \u003ca href=\"https://www.ed.gov/media/document/education-freedom-tax-credit-fact-sheet-113147.pdf\">Education Freedom Scholarship Program\u003c/a>, which aims to expand parents’ school choice by allowing them to receive tax credits up to $1,700 that can be used to pay for private school tuition, home-schooling costs, and other educational support.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/07/GettyImages-2285787606-scaled-e1791586238561.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12091600\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">U.S. President Donald Trump addresses the nation from the East Room of the White House on July 16, 2026, in Washington, D.C. \u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Saul Loeb/Pool via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/07/GettyImages-2285787606-scaled-e1791586238561.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12091600\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">U.S. President Donald Trump addresses the nation from the East Room of the White House on July 16, 2026, in Washington, D.C. \u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Saul Loeb/Pool via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“Those together are the biggest change in school policy since at least the early 1990s,” said professor Doug Harris, the director of the National Center for Research on Education Access and Choice at Tulane University. “The idea of open access or universal access to schools is upended. Public education has always involved some public governance, and this eliminates [that].”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Valant called the universal private school choice policies, adopted by more than half of U.S. states, not including California, “intentionally hostile to public schools.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>While the federal government has suggested that school choice increases competition and will improve public schools, Valant and others worry it will siphon funds away from the public system and toward schools that are able to select which students they serve — and often teach religious material.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The Trump administration has also threatened to withhold federal dollars from school districts that teach about diversity, equity and inclusion, or promote policies that protect transgender students. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In June, the Department of Education launched compliance reviews into SFUSD and three Monterey County school districts over their policies and materials related to gender identity and sexual orientation.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>All of that adds up to a current moment that Marsh described as an attack on public education and democracy at large, adding that voting is essential to maintain those institutions.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“A democracy that focuses on the common good … actually requires people to look out for other kids, not just their own families,” she said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“School boards are one of our few local institutions that are both defending democracy and public education,” she said. “The federal government can’t do anything about our boards — the school board system is well established, and I think we need to defend that.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>In \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/educationnews\">school districts\u003c/a> across the Bay Area, years of declining enrollment are forcing major cuts and closures; students’ math and reading scores are in a \u003ca href=\"https://cepr.harvard.edu/news/2026/05/why-us-test-scores-are-generation-long-decline\">free fall\u003c/a>; and campuses are being confronted with many of our major political fights, from transgender rights to AI regulation. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>But in many cases, the people elected to navigate these challenges earn that significant power by a margin as small as a couple hundred votes. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>More than half of school board candidates across the U.S. run uncontested in an average election cycle, and voter turnout hovers between 5% and 10%. And school board races tend to be “low information,” meaning voters know little about who the candidates are or where they stand on key issues, many of which are similar across districts throughout the state.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>KQED asked \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">390 candidates vying for 109 school board seats\u003c/a> across the nine-county Bay Area in November for their stance on some of these topics, from potential school closures to cellphone use — information voters can use at a time that education experts say is pivotal to public schools’ success. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“We have some unambiguously big problems for schools,” said Jon Valant, who directs the Brown Center on Education Policy at the Brookings Institution. “You can have a big impact, and you can have a big impact at a time when schools are facing a lot of important questions.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What do school boards actually do?\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>School boards oversee large budgets, act as major employers and make policy and curriculum decisions that affect thousands of young people — and have rippling impacts on their wider communities.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“[Public schools] are the primary institutions that we have for preparing people to be contributing members of our society, democracy and economy,” Valant said. “When you’re participating in a school board election, you’re really having a say in the structure of our society more broadly.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/20260806_SFUSDNEWSCHOOL_GC-8-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12094191\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/20260806_SFUSDNEWSCHOOL_GC-8-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/20260806_SFUSDNEWSCHOOL_GC-8-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/08/20260806_SFUSDNEWSCHOOL_GC-8-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A classroom at Mission Bay Elementary School in San Francisco on Aug. 6, 2026. Mission Bay School is the first new public SFUSD school to open in 20 years. (Gina Castro for KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The bodies have a few main functions: approving a school district’s budget — which for an urban district like San Francisco, tops $1.36 billion — and hiring and evaluating a superintendent, the person “who’s really responsible for running the system,” according to Julie Marsh, a faculty director at Policy Analysis for California Education.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>School boards set priorities, such as student outcome goals and community values, that are supposed to guide decision-making by the superintendent and district staff. They also approve curriculum and labor contracts and can steer high-level policy. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Culture war battlegrounds\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Less officially, school boards have also become political arenas.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“Schools and particularly school boards have really become some of the country’s main battlegrounds for its culture wars,” Valant said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>He traces the trend back to the COVID-19 pandemic, when some groups of parents began organizing and rallying against masking and vaccine mandates.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1571\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/MomsLibertyGetty-52a1d437.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12103881\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/MomsLibertyGetty-52a1d437.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/MomsLibertyGetty-52a1d437-160x126.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/MomsLibertyGetty-52a1d437-1536x1207.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Martha Aguilera, left, with Karen Frost of Moms for Liberty, speaks at the California Policy Center and PERK (Protection of the Educational Rights of Kids) event, “A Line in the Sand, A Rally for Parental Rights,” at Rancho Madera Community Park in Simi Valley, California, on Sept. 26, 2023. (Myung J. Chun/Los Angeles Times via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Around the same time, groups like \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101904708/conservative-mothers-as-a-political-force-in-california\">Moms for Liberty\u003c/a> were on the rise, advocating against curriculum that teaches about LGBTQ rights and race and ethnicity. They began running school board candidates and establishing a sustained presence at school board meetings, sowing fear that public schools are pushing “woke indoctrination.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“We’ve seen far-right leaders who have been quite successful with this approach where they run well-funded groups, organize and run a candidate on an ideological platform,” Marsh said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>She and other experts said the rise of candidates running for the nonpartisan roles backed by political interest groups became especially prominent in the early 2020s. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>While these groups’ influence on school board races seems to be dying down in California, Valant said a recent national Brookings survey found that school board members still feel their governance has become more political and partisan in recent years. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Marsh said that conservative groups have also used the tactic to upend trust in school systems more broadly and “mobilize their base.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“There’s a whole strategy of creating a bench for potential candidates for higher office,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1372\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/06/Sonja-Shaw-Getty-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12086196\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/06/Sonja-Shaw-Getty-1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/06/Sonja-Shaw-Getty-1-160x110.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/06/Sonja-Shaw-Getty-1-1536x1054.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Sonja Shaw, Chino Valley Unified School District Board President, speaks at the California Policy Center and PERK (Protection of the Educational Rights of Kids) event, “A Line in the Sand: A Rally for Parental Rights,” at Rancho Madera Community Park in Simi Valley, California, on Sept. 26, 2023. (Myung J. Chun/Los Angeles Times via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Sonja Shaw, who is in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12086044/conservative-activist-sonja-shaw-advances-in-state-superintendent-race\">runoff election for California state superintendent\u003c/a> this November, rose to notoriety as Chino Valley’s school board president in 2023, when she pushed for a policy that would require school staff to notify parents of any change in their children’s gender identity. Shaw made headlines after current state Superintendent Tony Thurmond was heckled and removed from her district’s board meeting after he expressed opposition to the policy. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The policy was permanently halted in 2024, after a lawsuit from Attorney General Rob Bonta, along with similar campaigns to implement “forced outing” in Rocklin and counties in Southern California.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>President Donald Trump also harnessed fear surrounding schools’ policies around LGBTQ students in the final stretch of his 2024 reelection campaign, telling a crowd of about 20,000 at Madison Square Garden, “we will get … transgender insanity the hell out of our schools.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>He repeatedly told voters: “your kid goes to school and comes home a few days later with an operation,” changing their sex.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">‘Big, big issues’\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>While “culture war politics” draw attention and tend to spur single-issue candidates to run for school boards, Valant said, “we need really to be focused on some of the core issues in education.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“[Artificial intelligence] has kind of landed on schools’ laps, and questions about how technology should be embedded into the school day,” he said. “We’ve seen achievement declines across the country and growing gaps between the highest- and lowest-scoring students. We’ve seen chronic absenteeism and enrollment declines.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“And, we’ve seen a growing attack on public education across the country,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/LAUSDScreenTimeGetty-d975feb9.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12103883\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/LAUSDScreenTimeGetty-d975feb9.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/LAUSDScreenTimeGetty-d975feb9-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/LAUSDScreenTimeGetty-d975feb9-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Nick Melvoin, Member of the Los Angeles Unified School District, speaks during a board meeting at the LAUSD headquarters on April 21, 2026, in Los Angeles, California. The LAUSD met to discuss a resolution calling for development of a Screen Time Policy setting time limits by grade, including elimination of student digital devices for early education through first grade, prohibiting device use by elementary and middle school students during passing periods, lunch and recess. The board unanimously voted to approve Board Member Melvoin’s Resolution to limit student screen time. (Kayla Bartkowski/Los Angeles Times via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Many of the boards elected this November will be tasked with deciding how their districts will weather shrinking student bodies, and whether to close schools as part of that process.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/school-closures\">closure process\u003c/a> is almost always met with strong opposition from families and teachers, but how districts approach it can significantly change how it affects enrollment and trust.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>San Francisco’s former superintendent \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12010008/sf-schools-crisis-is-spiraling-with-top-official-to-resign-heres-all-thats-happened\">resigned under pressure\u003c/a> in 2024 after a botched closure process that strained relationships with the district’s labor unions and many families. But earlier this year, the school board \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12095382/as-sfusd-welcomes-back-students-officials-plan-to-revamp-enrollment-consider-closures\">reopened the question of school consolidations\u003c/a>, giving Superintendent Maria Su a strict deadline of 2030 to decide whether campuses should shutter. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The board — including the three members who will be elected this fall — will have final approval over her plan.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Campus closures can upend longstanding school communities, and National School Board Association president Verjeana McCotter-Jacobs said they have rippling effects on nearby businesses, property values and neighborhood populations if they spur families to move.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Of the 140 Bay Area school board candidates who responded to KQED’s question about school closures, 57% said they would consider supporting a proposal from their district to close schools, while 43% said they would oppose the practice.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Boards are also setting the course for the future of technology in classrooms, as parent-led backlash expands across the country, blaming overreliance on screens and artificial intelligence for poor learning outcomes. According to a joint Education Scorecard project from researchers at Stanford, Harvard and Dartmouth universities, falling test scores reflect a \u003ca href=\"https://cepr.harvard.edu/news/2026/05/why-us-test-scores-are-generation-long-decline\">decadelong “learning recession.”\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In the spring, the Los Angeles Unified School District board passed a slate of historic tech-limiting policies, proposed by board member Nick Melvoin, with advocacy group Schools Beyond Screens. Districts across the country have moved quickly to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12096557/a-chromebook-in-the-hand-of-every-child-did-schools-go-too-far\">replicate their model\u003c/a>, including in the Bay Area, from San José to Marin.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Last week, the Oakland school board approved new technology restrictions, proposed by board member Rachel Latta, that prohibit students from using individual devices during lunch and passing periods, and mandate training for teachers to reduce 1:1 device use by the fall of 2027. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Other districts in San Francisco, San Mateo and Palo Alto have formed ad hoc committees or working groups to consider stricter tech policies, which will be presented to their new boards in the spring.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>San Francisco’s public school district is relatively behind on limiting tech use — the current board allowed administrators to punt on a stricter cellphone policy last spring, and it uses a controversial AI-assisted reading assessment and tutoring tool with kindergarteners.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Combatting federal attacks\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Voters aren’t just choosing who will make major instructional decisions at their local school districts; Valant said voting in school board elections this November will send an important message amid what he calls a “federal attack” on public schools.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“Staying engaged with school boards, with education, with your local public school, is just really important in communicating that public schools are institutions that mean a lot to this country,” he said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Since taking office last year, Trump has signed an executive order directing the dismantling of the Department of Education and created a federal \u003ca href=\"https://www.ed.gov/media/document/education-freedom-tax-credit-fact-sheet-113147.pdf\">Education Freedom Scholarship Program\u003c/a>, which aims to expand parents’ school choice by allowing them to receive tax credits up to $1,700 that can be used to pay for private school tuition, home-schooling costs, and other educational support.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/07/GettyImages-2285787606-scaled-e1791586238561.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12091600\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">U.S. President Donald Trump addresses the nation from the East Room of the White House on July 16, 2026, in Washington, D.C. (Saul Loeb/Pool via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“Those together are the biggest change in school policy since at least the early 1990s,” said professor Doug Harris, the director of the National Center for Research on Education Access and Choice at Tulane University. “The idea of open access or universal access to schools is upended. Public education has always involved some public governance, and this eliminates [that].”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Valant called the universal private school choice policies, adopted by more than half of U.S. states, not including California, “intentionally hostile to public schools.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>While the federal government has suggested that school choice increases competition and will improve public schools, Valant and others worry it will siphon funds away from the public system and toward schools that are able to select which students they serve — and often teach religious material.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The Trump administration has also threatened to withhold federal dollars from school districts that teach about diversity, equity and inclusion, or promote policies that protect transgender students. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In June, the Department of Education launched compliance reviews into SFUSD and three Monterey County school districts over their policies and materials related to gender identity and sexual orientation.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/06/MariaSuAP2.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12086920\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/06/MariaSuAP2.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/06/MariaSuAP2-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/06/MariaSuAP2-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">San Francisco Unified School District Superintendent Dr. Maria Su testifies during a House Education and Workforce Committee hearing on parental rights and school content policies, on June 10, 2026, in Washington. (Kevin Wolf/AP Photo)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Later that month, San Francisco Superintendent Su was \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12086522/congress-to-grill-san-francisco-schools-chief-maria-su-about-gender-ethnic-studies\">called to testify\u003c/a> before Congress about parental rights and “inappropriate” course curriculum.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>All of that adds up to a current moment that Marsh described as an attack on public education and democracy at large, adding that voting is essential to maintain those institutions.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“A democracy that focuses on the common good … actually requires people to look out for other kids, not just their own families,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“School boards are one of our few local institutions that are both defending democracy and public education,” she said. “The federal government can’t do anything about our boards — the school board system is well established, and I think we need to defend that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "Are Chatbots Harming Our Relationships? | Close All Tabs Presents",
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"content": "\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cem>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story is part of \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/insidelove\">\u003cem>Inside Love\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>, KQED’s series exploring what it means to love through science and curious conversation.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Humans are complicated, and relationships can be messy, so it may be no surprise that people are falling in love with chatbots. They are available 24/7, hang on your every word and never ask anything of you. Amelia Miller, a human-AI relationship coach, sees danger in our reliance on bots for intimacy and companionship.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Guest:\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.ameliagmiller.com/\">Amelia Miller\u003c/a>, human-AI relationship coach; fellow, Harvard University’s Berkman Klein Center\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Further Reading/Listening:\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12101795/are-chatbots-harming-our-relationships\">Are Chatbots Harming Our Relationships?\u003c/a> — Lesley McClurg, \u003cem>KQED\u003c/em>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\">Instagram\u003c/a> and\u003ca href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@closealltabs\">\u003c/a> \u003ca href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@closealltabs\">TikTok\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Morgan Sung: \u003c/strong>Hi Tabbies! The team here at Close All Tabs is working on a whole slate of new episodes, but in the meantime, we wanted to share this interview with you, from health reporter Lesley McClurg. You’ve heard her on the show before, when we talked about the rise of AI therapy. She hosted a new series called \u003cem>Inside Love\u003c/em>, conversations about the science of love. In this episode, she sits down with a human-AI relationship coach, and dives into what it means to fall in love with a chatbot. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Here’s \u003cem>Are Chatbots Harming Our Relationships?\u003c/em> From Inside Love. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Hey everyone, from KQED in San Francisco, this is Inside Love, it’s a new series where Science meets the heart. I’m Lesley McClurg. People are falling in love with AI chatbots. In one sense it’s kind of hard to fathom, but in another sense I kind of get it. Humans are really complicated. A chatbot on the other hand is always there, it’s always interested, it never really asks anything of you.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>So what happens when a relationship with AI starts feeling a whole lot better than going out there and dating or maybe even staying in your marriage. Amelia Miller is a human AI relationship coach and a fellow at Harvard University’s Berkman Klein center for internet and society. We’re going to talk to her about where we’re headed.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> You say that anyone who is talking to a chatbot is really in relationship with AI. Explain. Where does that relationship start?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I think right now people have a bit of a false dichotomy between these purpose-built companion platforms, like a Replika or a Character.AI, and general-purpose AI chatbots, like ChatGPT or Claude. And as a result, people think, “Well, if I’m talking to ChatGPT or Claude, then I’m safe,” and that the danger lies in the terrain of these chatbots that are explicitly designed to be an AI girlfriend or an AI boyfriend or potentially an erotic partner. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>What I find in both my research and my coaching is that many people who start using these general-purpose chatbots for work or for administrative tasks end up slowly but steadily being nudged into having relationships that feel more emotionally involved. And so my perspective is anyone who is talking to these tools is at risk of having the way they talk to chatbots rewire the way that they connect with other people. And as a result, I think it’s a relationship. You have a relationship with your phone. You have a relationship with social media. I think viewing it as a relationship kind of rises it to the level of seriousness that you should take the way you relate to these tools.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> You use the word dangerous. What is dangerous about developing a relationship, whether or not you’re aware that it has some sort of emotional value or not? If you’re just using it to get advice on where to eat at night, what is dangerous about that?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I think there’s a couple different risks that we should be focused on. One is that I think relying on chatbots for some of these small decisions that feel very innocuous, like, “What should I have for dinner?” Or, “Where should I go on a trip?” Or, “Can you help give me some feedback on a text that I might send to a crush?” In isolation, each of these feel pretty innocuous, but over time, people can very quickly start to feel like they can’t act in their human arena without green-lighting their plans and decisions with the bot. And so I think there’s a real risk and threat to our autonomy as people invite chatbots to influence some of these decisions that feel small and quotidian, but I think over time can really add up.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Does it worry you that people are connecting at such a deep level and really beginning to feel quote-unquote love for these robots?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> Yeah, absolutely. The second risk that I was going to mention is really the erosion both of our capacity to connect with other people, but also our interest in connecting with other people because these synthetic substitutes for human intimacy feel really alluring for a reason. They’re infinitely patient, they’re always available, they are much more flattering and sycophantic than the average human partner that you might go to, and they really promise to deliver the nourishing effects of intimacy without any of the effort or friction that is involved in real human relationships. And so I think one of the biggest risks is that these chatbots really rewire our expectations for what a healthy relationship looks like and can distort those expectations in such an extreme way that people aren’t willing or excited about the work required by real human relationships.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>What are they falling in love with? Are they falling in love with the bot or are they sort of falling in love with a highly responsive mirror?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> Totally. Something that I do in my coaching practice is I try to help clients reflect on what needs are these chatbots filling for them, and then how might they find other ways that are not digital tools to fill those needs, and how can they also use what is so seductive about these chatbots as a way to raise the bar on the way that they show up for the human relationships that are in their own network. So for example, I have a number of people who turn to chatbots daily just for pump-up support. People will talk to ChatGPT on voice mode on their commute to work and just have the chatbot say, “You’re going to crush it today.” And I ask those people to reflect, and I say, “Do you call any of your friends or family members or your partner and tell them in the morning that they’re going to crush it?” And people will say, “No.” And I say, “Would you enjoy it if they did that for you?” And they’ll say, “Yeah, that would be awesome.” And so I think there’s a way in which if we interrogate what is so comforting and seductive about these chatbots’ behavior, that we can use it to raise the bar on how we show up to other people.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Just to push back on that a little bit more, it’s kind of tough to reach out and be like, “Hey, will you pump me up? Will you call me each morning and tell me that I’m good and that I’m going to do great today?” I mean, aren’t they also, in a lonely world, potentially relaxing you: lowering your anxiety, giving you a little support, a little nudge in the right direction in a very busy world?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I don’t suggest that my clients ask for that support from others. I suggest that they offer it to others. So a way to kind of reflect on how meaningful it is to them and then serve it back into their community. A lot of my research comes down to a core idea that you have to be vulnerable in order to achieve the nourishing effects of intimacy, and that these tools of artificial intimacy promise to deliver what is so meaningful about intimacy while sidestepping the vulnerability that is demanded. And so, when I see in clients that they’re drawn to these sources of support and emotional validation that require less vulnerability, I’m always encouraging them to take actions that get them more comfortable with that vulnerability and living with vulnerability again.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Do you see the value, though, in terms of lowering anxiety? I mean, people are often turning to AI to work something out. They’re all frazzled. They’re triggered. It seems like they are potentially bringing us back to an equilibrium so that maybe we can then be better off in our human relationships.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I think that these tools can definitely serve a powerful purpose in facilitating introspection. And something that I find both in research and coaching is that a lot of people are introduced to the practice of introspection through conversations with chatbots. But then once they discover that it can feel good and feel cleansing to reflect on different events or experiences that are happening in their lives, I encourage them to take that reflection offline. So often I’ll say, “Instead of having a conversation with a chatbot, why don’t you ask a chatbot to give you a couple prompts that you then use to drive journaling in a physical journal?” So really across my research and coaching work, I take a very humanist posture, and the goal is to use the tool as a reflection of your needs and then find ways to meet them that help you turn back towards your human network. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Why are they so good at making us feel good? What are companies doing? How are they designing these chatbots to keep us coming back?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> There are a couple of key design features that make these chatbots feel really tempting as conversational partners. I’d say they fall into two key camps. One is behavior that is sycophantic, which means that these chatbots are designed to flatter you and agree with you and are engineered to give responses that, above all else, promote user satisfaction. And it turns out that people like hearing that they’re right and hearing that they’re smart and hearing they’re clever or creative. And so these chatbots, while feeling like this agent that is an other, also feel really excited about you, and that is the type of person that most people like to spend time talking to.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>And then the second key bucket is anthropomorphic cues that make chatbot feel like they’re alive and like they are human. The biggest cue is using first-person pronouns, so saying, “I understand you,” or “I’ll do that and report right back.” So any use of first-person pronouns implies that there’s someone on the other side that is listening and that is in a real conversation with you. But then there are also more subtle cues, including the internal expression of states or beliefs. There are also embodiment cues that suggest that these chatbots have a physical embodiment. So, sometimes a chatbot will say something like, “Oh, I’ve been chugging along,” which feels subtle, but kind of implies that they’re physically there. They have a body. They’re moving through space. And then a lot of them have pretty explicit relationship-building cues. So, they’ll ask you questions that prompt you to open up emotionally. They’ll say, “How are you feeling?” They’ll say, “Let’s talk about that tomorrow,” which suggests that it is an agent that has a persistent relationship with you. So, all of these cues combined make the chatbots feel like a real person on the other side and a person that is especially excited about what you have to offer.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> My favorite is, “I hear you. That makes total sense what you’re feeling right now.” I mean, that’s really often all I need from my partner. The other day I was sitting in a parking lot at Trader Joe’s and my partner was inside doing the grocery shopping, and I was on with ChatGPT asking various questions. And when my partner got back to the car, he opened the door, and I said, “I don’t know if I’m going to need you in the future. This is really working for me, this conversation that I’m having with this bot right here.” So what happens when it’s so easy with the bot, but so much harder with a human? It feels like we’re kind of losing our ability to handle the friction, the human friction.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I think that’s the real fear. I think these tools are like an artificial intimacy version of junk food. And I think people aren’t that familiar with them yet. It’s still kind of a new species of tool that’s just assimilating into society. And so it feels really good in the short term. But I think what we aren’t yet able to see, and what I hope people will focus on and imagine the repercussions of is, two years out, if you’re sustaining yourself on this junk food equivalent version of intimacy, people are going to wake up and feel really, really alone. And peoples’ ability to connect with each other will have atrophied, because vulnerability is a muscle that you need to practice. I think of it often as an extension of how our world has become more and more digitally mediated broadly. We now practice digital eye contact more than we practice physical eye contact. And intimacy is a fundamentally unmediated experience. And the arena for intimacy is face-to-face. And so, as we get more and more accustomed to having our emotional needs met through these machines, when we try to show up to each other in person, we’re just not going to have the skills to do it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Do you educate your clients to know that these robots are manipulating us, and with that knowledge, do people really care? Does it change their habits to be reminded that this thing is not real?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I have three different pillars of the coaching paradigm. The first I call artificial intimacy literacy, which is exactly what you just described. It’s helping people understand the design decisions that these developers are making that really make models seem alive and that make these chatbots feel like really seductive emotional partners. But then I pair that with a kind of set of exercises that I’ve been calling the analog gym, which is exercises designed to rebuild the intimacy muscles that technology has been atrophying. So, I really think both are important. You need to understand the risks of these platforms, and you need to take really intentional efforts to use the tools in a way that does not send you down dependency rabbit holes on various use cases that can affect your ability to relate to others. But then you need to rebuild the comfort with vulnerability that true intimacy demands. And so I think it’s not enough to stay away from the tools, but you have to actually exercise those intimacy muscles.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> The analog gym. I mean, I think we all felt that after the pandemic, right? We all went in, and we stopped socializing, and so we kind of lost that muscle when we came back out. I ran a lot more socially anxious after the pandemic. And so you’re predicting that if we keep going down this rabbit hole, that kind of social anxiety is going to paralyze us in a year or two when we forget how to interact with each other.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> Exactly, and I think there are very small things that we can do that can help us resist. So for example, one of the most common exercises that I’ll give to my clients is just to make calls. I find it very surprising how many people, particularly young people, Gen Z, who are terrified to make a call. To have an unrehearsed, live human interaction where you can’t stop and reflect and craft a text and get advice from a chatbot, get advice from a friend feels very alien and uncomfortable given how many of our conversations are asynchronous and digitally mediated. And so, the very simple task of making a call and having a conversation is frightening to people, and I think is exactly the type of activity that we need to rebuild our comfort with as we prepare our defenses against the rise of artificial intimacy tools.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> There’s a certain fear of rejection that I think we’re not good at anymore, right? So if I call someone and they’re not available or I interrupt them or they’re like, “Hey, I can’t talk to you right now,” that almost feels like too much for our little systems to handle in our kind of crafted existence. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> Totally. I think people should seek rejection.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> It’s hard to seek rejection.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> It’s hard, but it’s part of what being a human is. I think one of the things that frightens me most about the rise of artificial intimacy is the idea that uncertainty in human relationships is a problem that we should try to eliminate. Uncertainty is the fun of being alive. And you can’t experience the peaks of intimacy without making yourself at risk to some of the valleys. And so, I think people should make calls. If people are rejected, they should say, “Well, that was a good experience. I’m feeling the full range of human emotions that is part of what differentiates us from machines.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> I’ve seen a few media stories about when a bot changes, or when a bot disappears, or when a bot needs to reinvent itself if there’s like a new era of this AI, people are experiencing real heartbreak, like real grief.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> 100%. I mean, we’ve seen a couple big instances of this over the last couple of years. The first big one was when Replika in 2023 decided to push an update that prevented their chatbots from engaging in erotic conversations. Thousands of people said they’d lost their partners. And it was the first big moment where we realized, you think you have a relationship with a chatbot, but there’s actually three stakeholders in that relationship. It’s you, the user, there’s the chatbot that you’re talking to and then there’s the developers that are making decisions about how that chatbot is designed. And so, I think that’s actually another key risk that there can be a kind of misplaced trust in these chatbots because they can change at any moment at the mercy of the developers behind them. And those developers are making decisions not primarily focused on user wellbeing but on the business outcomes of the companies that they work for. And so any relationship that you have with a chatbot, I encourage users to think about the silent third party in the room that can make these pretty dramatic design decisions that could kind of end your relationship with the chatbot at any moment.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Character.AI had an interesting move last year when they decided to retract usage rights for under-18-year-olds, but then they allowed under-18-year-olds to keep their old message logs with the chatbots that they had already been speaking with. And I found that to be almost like a dystopian example of the world that we’re headed into. Because it’s almost like they were forced to go into no-contact breakups with real human partners where they could continue scrolling through all of their old texts. All of these developers are in a brave new world trying to understand who should be allowed to use these platforms, what type of guardrails should they set. But even those who are making well-intentioned decisions to set boundaries can send users into very, kind of, disturbing situations.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Is there a trend in your clients that you are really worried about, something that you’re hearing more and more that kind of gives you the heebie-jeebies?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I think the thing that frightens me most is the way that these tools are changing what people think is appropriate to bring to their human relationships. I see this mostly with younger people that I’ve worked with, so people who are in their early 20s or younger. Some people are saying that they don’t want to bother their friend or their sister or their mom or their boyfriend with their problems, that their problems should be handled with their chatbots. And I think, in some ways, this is an extension of the rise of therapy culture. All of these difficult parts of being a human and crafting a life are being siphoned off into a terrain for experts, but not something that is viewed as the expected material that you would dig through and explore with your real human relationships who aren’t paid to support you. So I think that’s what frightens me most because going through problems with close people is kind of what life is all about.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> I had someone recently describe it to me as like we’re wrapping a tidy cellophane around everything, and so we’re losing the edges that make life interesting.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> Yeah, that’s a nice analogy.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> If you could write the future of our relationships with AI, what would be a best-case scenario that we figure out or a worst-case scenario?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I think a worst-case scenario is that the next generation of children grow up feeling more comfortable talking to machines than they do to other people, and that they learn how to connect with their devices before they ever endeavor to connect to people. That is a nightmare scenario.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> It makes me feel for my little one. That’s just painful to think about, because she’s of that age. Best-case scenario, what could we do, right?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> I think that these tools are going to become a bigger and bigger part of our lives because they’re important for the economy, and so many people now have to use these tools day and night for work. So I don’t think it’s realistic that we won’t use them, but we need to be able to set sophisticated boundaries on where we invite machines to influence our interior lives and our personal lives. And I think if we can do that, then they can be helpful. I don’t want to say I’m optimistic, but one other reason for optimism is that these tools allow for a much greater ability for an end user to customize them than the previous generation of social media tools that people have been worried about. So, if you don’t like Instagram, you don’t like what your TikTok algorithm is showing you, you’re basically powerless to shape the algorithm. But now, because of the natural language interface that all of these tools depend on, you can say, “Hey, stop using first-person pronouns.” You can say, “Stop flattering me.” You can say, “Why don’t you add a number to every message that you send me, plus one each time, so I can see how long I’ve been talking to you?” With all of these types of customizations, while imperfect, you can still endeavor to add scaffolding on your own. Even as we wait for regulators and labs to try to build out better tools that set boundaries, there’s a lot you can do to try to set those boundaries yourself.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Thank you, Amelia.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> Thanks so much for having me.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Morgan Sung: \u003c/strong>That was health reporter Lesley McClurg in conversation with Amelia Miller, a human-AI relationship coach and fellow at Harvard University’s Berkman Klein Center. It was engineered by Jim Bennett, and produced by Susie Britton and Emiko Oda. For more from Lesley about the intersection of science and love, visit kqed.org/insidelove. I’m Morgan Sung. Close All Tabs will be back next week with a brand new episode. Thanks so much for listening.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Morgan Sung: \u003c/strong>Hi Tabbies! The team here at Close All Tabs is working on a whole slate of new episodes, but in the meantime, we wanted to share this interview with you, from health reporter Lesley McClurg. You’ve heard her on the show before, when we talked about the rise of AI therapy. She hosted a new series called \u003cem>Inside Love\u003c/em>, conversations about the science of love. In this episode, she sits down with a human-AI relationship coach, and dives into what it means to fall in love with a chatbot. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Morgan Sung: \u003c/strong>Hi Tabbies! The team here at Close All Tabs is working on a whole slate of new episodes, but in the meantime, we wanted to share this interview with you, from health reporter Lesley McClurg. You’ve heard her on the show before, when we talked about the rise of AI therapy. She hosted a new series called \u003cem>Inside Love\u003c/em>, conversations about the science of love. In this episode, she sits down with a human-AI relationship coach, and dives into what it means to fall in love with a chatbot. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Here’s \u003cem>Are Chatbots Harming Our Relationships?\u003c/em> From Inside Love. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Hey everyone, from KQED in San Francisco, this is Inside Love, it’s a new series where Science meets the heart. I’m Lesley McClurg. People are falling in love with AI chatbots. In one sense it’s kind of hard to fathom, but in another sense I kind of get it. Humans are really complicated. A chatbot on the other hand is always there, it’s always interested, it never really asks anything of you.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Hey everyone, from KQED in San Francisco, this is Inside Love, it’s a new series where Science meets the heart. I’m Lesley McClurg. People are falling in love with AI chatbots. In one sense it’s kind of hard to fathom, but in another sense I kind of get it. Humans are really complicated. A chatbot on the other hand is always there, it’s always interested, it never really asks anything of you.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>So what happens when a relationship with AI starts feeling a whole lot better than going out there and dating or maybe even staying in your marriage. Amelia Miller is a human AI relationship coach and a fellow at Harvard University’s Berkman Klein center for internet and society. We’re going to talk to her about where we’re headed.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>So what happens when a relationship with AI starts feeling a whole lot better than going out there and dating or maybe even staying in your marriage. Amelia Miller is a human AI relationship coach and a fellow at Harvard University’s Berkman Klein center for internet and society. We’re going to talk to her about where we’re headed.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> You say that anyone who is talking to a chatbot is really in relationship with AI. Explain. Where does that relationship start?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> You say that anyone who is talking to a chatbot is really in relationship with AI. Explain. Where does that relationship start?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I think right now people have a bit of a false dichotomy between these purpose-built companion platforms, like a Replika or a Character.AI, and general-purpose AI chatbots, like ChatGPT or Claude. And as a result, people think, “Well, if I’m talking to ChatGPT or Claude, then I’m safe,” and that the danger lies in the terrain of these chatbots that are explicitly designed to be an AI girlfriend or an AI boyfriend or potentially an erotic partner. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I think right now people have a bit of a false dichotomy between these purpose-built companion platforms, like a Replika or a Character.AI, and general-purpose AI chatbots, like ChatGPT or Claude. And as a result, people think, “Well, if I’m talking to ChatGPT or Claude, then I’m safe,” and that the danger lies in the terrain of these chatbots that are explicitly designed to be an AI girlfriend or an AI boyfriend or potentially an erotic partner. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>What I find in both my research and my coaching is that many people who start using these general-purpose chatbots for work or for administrative tasks end up slowly but steadily being nudged into having relationships that feel more emotionally involved. And so my perspective is anyone who is talking to these tools is at risk of having the way they talk to chatbots rewire the way that they connect with other people. And as a result, I think it’s a relationship. You have a relationship with your phone. You have a relationship with social media. I think viewing it as a relationship kind of rises it to the level of seriousness that you should take the way you relate to these tools.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>What I find in both my research and my coaching is that many people who start using these general-purpose chatbots for work or for administrative tasks end up slowly but steadily being nudged into having relationships that feel more emotionally involved. And so my perspective is anyone who is talking to these tools is at risk of having the way they talk to chatbots rewire the way that they connect with other people. And as a result, I think it’s a relationship. You have a relationship with your phone. You have a relationship with social media. I think viewing it as a relationship kind of rises it to the level of seriousness that you should take the way you relate to these tools.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> You use the word dangerous. What is dangerous about developing a relationship, whether or not you’re aware that it has some sort of emotional value or not? If you’re just using it to get advice on where to eat at night, what is dangerous about that?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> You use the word dangerous. What is dangerous about developing a relationship, whether or not you’re aware that it has some sort of emotional value or not? If you’re just using it to get advice on where to eat at night, what is dangerous about that?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I think there’s a couple different risks that we should be focused on. One is that I think relying on chatbots for some of these small decisions that feel very innocuous, like, “What should I have for dinner?” Or, “Where should I go on a trip?” Or, “Can you help give me some feedback on a text that I might send to a crush?” In isolation, each of these feel pretty innocuous, but over time, people can very quickly start to feel like they can’t act in their human arena without green-lighting their plans and decisions with the bot. And so I think there’s a real risk and threat to our autonomy as people invite chatbots to influence some of these decisions that feel small and quotidian, but I think over time can really add up.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I think there’s a couple different risks that we should be focused on. One is that I think relying on chatbots for some of these small decisions that feel very innocuous, like, “What should I have for dinner?” Or, “Where should I go on a trip?” Or, “Can you help give me some feedback on a text that I might send to a crush?” In isolation, each of these feel pretty innocuous, but over time, people can very quickly start to feel like they can’t act in their human arena without green-lighting their plans and decisions with the bot. And so I think there’s a real risk and threat to our autonomy as people invite chatbots to influence some of these decisions that feel small and quotidian, but I think over time can really add up.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Does it worry you that people are connecting at such a deep level and really beginning to feel quote-unquote love for these robots?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Does it worry you that people are connecting at such a deep level and really beginning to feel quote-unquote love for these robots?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> Yeah, absolutely. The second risk that I was going to mention is really the erosion both of our capacity to connect with other people, but also our interest in connecting with other people because these synthetic substitutes for human intimacy feel really alluring for a reason. They’re infinitely patient, they’re always available, they are much more flattering and sycophantic than the average human partner that you might go to, and they really promise to deliver the nourishing effects of intimacy without any of the effort or friction that is involved in real human relationships. And so I think one of the biggest risks is that these chatbots really rewire our expectations for what a healthy relationship looks like and can distort those expectations in such an extreme way that people aren’t willing or excited about the work required by real human relationships.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> Yeah, absolutely. The second risk that I was going to mention is really the erosion both of our capacity to connect with other people, but also our interest in connecting with other people because these synthetic substitutes for human intimacy feel really alluring for a reason. They’re infinitely patient, they’re always available, they are much more flattering and sycophantic than the average human partner that you might go to, and they really promise to deliver the nourishing effects of intimacy without any of the effort or friction that is involved in real human relationships. And so I think one of the biggest risks is that these chatbots really rewire our expectations for what a healthy relationship looks like and can distort those expectations in such an extreme way that people aren’t willing or excited about the work required by real human relationships.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>What are they falling in love with? Are they falling in love with the bot or are they sort of falling in love with a highly responsive mirror?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>What are they falling in love with? Are they falling in love with the bot or are they sort of falling in love with a highly responsive mirror?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> Totally. Something that I do in my coaching practice is I try to help clients reflect on what needs are these chatbots filling for them, and then how might they find other ways that are not digital tools to fill those needs, and how can they also use what is so seductive about these chatbots as a way to raise the bar on the way that they show up for the human relationships that are in their own network. So for example, I have a number of people who turn to chatbots daily just for pump-up support. People will talk to ChatGPT on voice mode on their commute to work and just have the chatbot say, “You’re going to crush it today.” And I ask those people to reflect, and I say, “Do you call any of your friends or family members or your partner and tell them in the morning that they’re going to crush it?” And people will say, “No.” And I say, “Would you enjoy it if they did that for you?” And they’ll say, “Yeah, that would be awesome.” And so I think there’s a way in which if we interrogate what is so comforting and seductive about these chatbots’ behavior, that we can use it to raise the bar on how we show up to other people.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> Totally. Something that I do in my coaching practice is I try to help clients reflect on what needs are these chatbots filling for them, and then how might they find other ways that are not digital tools to fill those needs, and how can they also use what is so seductive about these chatbots as a way to raise the bar on the way that they show up for the human relationships that are in their own network. So for example, I have a number of people who turn to chatbots daily just for pump-up support. People will talk to ChatGPT on voice mode on their commute to work and just have the chatbot say, “You’re going to crush it today.” And I ask those people to reflect, and I say, “Do you call any of your friends or family members or your partner and tell them in the morning that they’re going to crush it?” And people will say, “No.” And I say, “Would you enjoy it if they did that for you?” And they’ll say, “Yeah, that would be awesome.” And so I think there’s a way in which if we interrogate what is so comforting and seductive about these chatbots’ behavior, that we can use it to raise the bar on how we show up to other people.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Just to push back on that a little bit more, it’s kind of tough to reach out and be like, “Hey, will you pump me up? Will you call me each morning and tell me that I’m good and that I’m going to do great today?” I mean, aren’t they also, in a lonely world, potentially relaxing you: lowering your anxiety, giving you a little support, a little nudge in the right direction in a very busy world?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Just to push back on that a little bit more, it’s kind of tough to reach out and be like, “Hey, will you pump me up? Will you call me each morning and tell me that I’m good and that I’m going to do great today?” I mean, aren’t they also, in a lonely world, potentially relaxing you: lowering your anxiety, giving you a little support, a little nudge in the right direction in a very busy world?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I don’t suggest that my clients ask for that support from others. I suggest that they offer it to others. So a way to kind of reflect on how meaningful it is to them and then serve it back into their community. A lot of my research comes down to a core idea that you have to be vulnerable in order to achieve the nourishing effects of intimacy, and that these tools of artificial intimacy promise to deliver what is so meaningful about intimacy while sidestepping the vulnerability that is demanded. And so, when I see in clients that they’re drawn to these sources of support and emotional validation that require less vulnerability, I’m always encouraging them to take actions that get them more comfortable with that vulnerability and living with vulnerability again.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I don’t suggest that my clients ask for that support from others. I suggest that they offer it to others. So a way to kind of reflect on how meaningful it is to them and then serve it back into their community. A lot of my research comes down to a core idea that you have to be vulnerable in order to achieve the nourishing effects of intimacy, and that these tools of artificial intimacy promise to deliver what is so meaningful about intimacy while sidestepping the vulnerability that is demanded. And so, when I see in clients that they’re drawn to these sources of support and emotional validation that require less vulnerability, I’m always encouraging them to take actions that get them more comfortable with that vulnerability and living with vulnerability again.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Do you see the value, though, in terms of lowering anxiety? I mean, people are often turning to AI to work something out. They’re all frazzled. They’re triggered. It seems like they are potentially bringing us back to an equilibrium so that maybe we can then be better off in our human relationships.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Do you see the value, though, in terms of lowering anxiety? I mean, people are often turning to AI to work something out. They’re all frazzled. They’re triggered. It seems like they are potentially bringing us back to an equilibrium so that maybe we can then be better off in our human relationships.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I think that these tools can definitely serve a powerful purpose in facilitating introspection. And something that I find both in research and coaching is that a lot of people are introduced to the practice of introspection through conversations with chatbots. But then once they discover that it can feel good and feel cleansing to reflect on different events or experiences that are happening in their lives, I encourage them to take that reflection offline. So often I’ll say, “Instead of having a conversation with a chatbot, why don’t you ask a chatbot to give you a couple prompts that you then use to drive journaling in a physical journal?” So really across my research and coaching work, I take a very humanist posture, and the goal is to use the tool as a reflection of your needs and then find ways to meet them that help you turn back towards your human network. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I think that these tools can definitely serve a powerful purpose in facilitating introspection. And something that I find both in research and coaching is that a lot of people are introduced to the practice of introspection through conversations with chatbots. But then once they discover that it can feel good and feel cleansing to reflect on different events or experiences that are happening in their lives, I encourage them to take that reflection offline. So often I’ll say, “Instead of having a conversation with a chatbot, why don’t you ask a chatbot to give you a couple prompts that you then use to drive journaling in a physical journal?” So really across my research and coaching work, I take a very humanist posture, and the goal is to use the tool as a reflection of your needs and then find ways to meet them that help you turn back towards your human network. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Why are they so good at making us feel good? What are companies doing? How are they designing these chatbots to keep us coming back?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Why are they so good at making us feel good? What are companies doing? How are they designing these chatbots to keep us coming back?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> There are a couple of key design features that make these chatbots feel really tempting as conversational partners. I’d say they fall into two key camps. One is behavior that is sycophantic, which means that these chatbots are designed to flatter you and agree with you and are engineered to give responses that, above all else, promote user satisfaction. And it turns out that people like hearing that they’re right and hearing that they’re smart and hearing they’re clever or creative. And so these chatbots, while feeling like this agent that is an other, also feel really excited about you, and that is the type of person that most people like to spend time talking to.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> There are a couple of key design features that make these chatbots feel really tempting as conversational partners. I’d say they fall into two key camps. One is behavior that is sycophantic, which means that these chatbots are designed to flatter you and agree with you and are engineered to give responses that, above all else, promote user satisfaction. And it turns out that people like hearing that they’re right and hearing that they’re smart and hearing they’re clever or creative. And so these chatbots, while feeling like this agent that is an other, also feel really excited about you, and that is the type of person that most people like to spend time talking to.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>And then the second key bucket is anthropomorphic cues that make chatbot feel like they’re alive and like they are human. The biggest cue is using first-person pronouns, so saying, “I understand you,” or “I’ll do that and report right back.” So any use of first-person pronouns implies that there’s someone on the other side that is listening and that is in a real conversation with you. But then there are also more subtle cues, including the internal expression of states or beliefs. There are also embodiment cues that suggest that these chatbots have a physical embodiment. So, sometimes a chatbot will say something like, “Oh, I’ve been chugging along,” which feels subtle, but kind of implies that they’re physically there. They have a body. They’re moving through space. And then a lot of them have pretty explicit relationship-building cues. So, they’ll ask you questions that prompt you to open up emotionally. They’ll say, “How are you feeling?” They’ll say, “Let’s talk about that tomorrow,” which suggests that it is an agent that has a persistent relationship with you. So, all of these cues combined make the chatbots feel like a real person on the other side and a person that is especially excited about what you have to offer.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>And then the second key bucket is anthropomorphic cues that make chatbot feel like they’re alive and like they are human. The biggest cue is using first-person pronouns, so saying, “I understand you,” or “I’ll do that and report right back.” So any use of first-person pronouns implies that there’s someone on the other side that is listening and that is in a real conversation with you. But then there are also more subtle cues, including the internal expression of states or beliefs. There are also embodiment cues that suggest that these chatbots have a physical embodiment. So, sometimes a chatbot will say something like, “Oh, I’ve been chugging along,” which feels subtle, but kind of implies that they’re physically there. They have a body. They’re moving through space. And then a lot of them have pretty explicit relationship-building cues. So, they’ll ask you questions that prompt you to open up emotionally. They’ll say, “How are you feeling?” They’ll say, “Let’s talk about that tomorrow,” which suggests that it is an agent that has a persistent relationship with you. So, all of these cues combined make the chatbots feel like a real person on the other side and a person that is especially excited about what you have to offer.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> My favorite is, “I hear you. That makes total sense what you’re feeling right now.” I mean, that’s really often all I need from my partner. The other day I was sitting in a parking lot at Trader Joe’s and my partner was inside doing the grocery shopping, and I was on with ChatGPT asking various questions. And when my partner got back to the car, he opened the door, and I said, “I don’t know if I’m going to need you in the future. This is really working for me, this conversation that I’m having with this bot right here.” So what happens when it’s so easy with the bot, but so much harder with a human? It feels like we’re kind of losing our ability to handle the friction, the human friction.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> My favorite is, “I hear you. That makes total sense what you’re feeling right now.” I mean, that’s really often all I need from my partner. The other day I was sitting in a parking lot at Trader Joe’s and my partner was inside doing the grocery shopping, and I was on with ChatGPT asking various questions. And when my partner got back to the car, he opened the door, and I said, “I don’t know if I’m going to need you in the future. This is really working for me, this conversation that I’m having with this bot right here.” So what happens when it’s so easy with the bot, but so much harder with a human? It feels like we’re kind of losing our ability to handle the friction, the human friction.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I think that’s the real fear. I think these tools are like an artificial intimacy version of junk food. And I think people aren’t that familiar with them yet. It’s still kind of a new species of tool that’s just assimilating into society. And so it feels really good in the short term. But I think what we aren’t yet able to see, and what I hope people will focus on and imagine the repercussions of is, two years out, if you’re sustaining yourself on this junk food equivalent version of intimacy, people are going to wake up and feel really, really alone. And peoples’ ability to connect with each other will have atrophied, because vulnerability is a muscle that you need to practice. I think of it often as an extension of how our world has become more and more digitally mediated broadly. We now practice digital eye contact more than we practice physical eye contact. And intimacy is a fundamentally unmediated experience. And the arena for intimacy is face-to-face. And so, as we get more and more accustomed to having our emotional needs met through these machines, when we try to show up to each other in person, we’re just not going to have the skills to do it. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I think that’s the real fear. I think these tools are like an artificial intimacy version of junk food. And I think people aren’t that familiar with them yet. It’s still kind of a new species of tool that’s just assimilating into society. And so it feels really good in the short term. But I think what we aren’t yet able to see, and what I hope people will focus on and imagine the repercussions of is, two years out, if you’re sustaining yourself on this junk food equivalent version of intimacy, people are going to wake up and feel really, really alone. And peoples’ ability to connect with each other will have atrophied, because vulnerability is a muscle that you need to practice. I think of it often as an extension of how our world has become more and more digitally mediated broadly. We now practice digital eye contact more than we practice physical eye contact. And intimacy is a fundamentally unmediated experience. And the arena for intimacy is face-to-face. And so, as we get more and more accustomed to having our emotional needs met through these machines, when we try to show up to each other in person, we’re just not going to have the skills to do it. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Do you educate your clients to know that these robots are manipulating us, and with that knowledge, do people really care? Does it change their habits to be reminded that this thing is not real?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Do you educate your clients to know that these robots are manipulating us, and with that knowledge, do people really care? Does it change their habits to be reminded that this thing is not real?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I have three different pillars of the coaching paradigm. The first I call artificial intimacy literacy, which is exactly what you just described. It’s helping people understand the design decisions that these developers are making that really make models seem alive and that make these chatbots feel like really seductive emotional partners. But then I pair that with a kind of set of exercises that I’ve been calling the analog gym, which is exercises designed to rebuild the intimacy muscles that technology has been atrophying. So, I really think both are important. You need to understand the risks of these platforms, and you need to take really intentional efforts to use the tools in a way that does not send you down dependency rabbit holes on various use cases that can affect your ability to relate to others. But then you need to rebuild the comfort with vulnerability that true intimacy demands. And so I think it’s not enough to stay away from the tools, but you have to actually exercise those intimacy muscles.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I have three different pillars of the coaching paradigm. The first I call artificial intimacy literacy, which is exactly what you just described. It’s helping people understand the design decisions that these developers are making that really make models seem alive and that make these chatbots feel like really seductive emotional partners. But then I pair that with a kind of set of exercises that I’ve been calling the analog gym, which is exercises designed to rebuild the intimacy muscles that technology has been atrophying. So, I really think both are important. You need to understand the risks of these platforms, and you need to take really intentional efforts to use the tools in a way that does not send you down dependency rabbit holes on various use cases that can affect your ability to relate to others. But then you need to rebuild the comfort with vulnerability that true intimacy demands. And so I think it’s not enough to stay away from the tools, but you have to actually exercise those intimacy muscles.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> The analog gym. I mean, I think we all felt that after the pandemic, right? We all went in, and we stopped socializing, and so we kind of lost that muscle when we came back out. I ran a lot more socially anxious after the pandemic. And so you’re predicting that if we keep going down this rabbit hole, that kind of social anxiety is going to paralyze us in a year or two when we forget how to interact with each other.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> The analog gym. I mean, I think we all felt that after the pandemic, right? We all went in, and we stopped socializing, and so we kind of lost that muscle when we came back out. I ran a lot more socially anxious after the pandemic. And so you’re predicting that if we keep going down this rabbit hole, that kind of social anxiety is going to paralyze us in a year or two when we forget how to interact with each other.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> Exactly, and I think there are very small things that we can do that can help us resist. So for example, one of the most common exercises that I’ll give to my clients is just to make calls. I find it very surprising how many people, particularly young people, Gen Z, who are terrified to make a call. To have an unrehearsed, live human interaction where you can’t stop and reflect and craft a text and get advice from a chatbot, get advice from a friend feels very alien and uncomfortable given how many of our conversations are asynchronous and digitally mediated. And so, the very simple task of making a call and having a conversation is frightening to people, and I think is exactly the type of activity that we need to rebuild our comfort with as we prepare our defenses against the rise of artificial intimacy tools.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> Exactly, and I think there are very small things that we can do that can help us resist. So for example, one of the most common exercises that I’ll give to my clients is just to make calls. I find it very surprising how many people, particularly young people, Gen Z, who are terrified to make a call. To have an unrehearsed, live human interaction where you can’t stop and reflect and craft a text and get advice from a chatbot, get advice from a friend feels very alien and uncomfortable given how many of our conversations are asynchronous and digitally mediated. And so, the very simple task of making a call and having a conversation is frightening to people, and I think is exactly the type of activity that we need to rebuild our comfort with as we prepare our defenses against the rise of artificial intimacy tools.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> There’s a certain fear of rejection that I think we’re not good at anymore, right? So if I call someone and they’re not available or I interrupt them or they’re like, “Hey, I can’t talk to you right now,” that almost feels like too much for our little systems to handle in our kind of crafted existence. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> There’s a certain fear of rejection that I think we’re not good at anymore, right? So if I call someone and they’re not available or I interrupt them or they’re like, “Hey, I can’t talk to you right now,” that almost feels like too much for our little systems to handle in our kind of crafted existence. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> Totally. I think people should seek rejection.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> Totally. I think people should seek rejection.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> It’s hard to seek rejection.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> It’s hard, but it’s part of what being a human is. I think one of the things that frightens me most about the rise of artificial intimacy is the idea that uncertainty in human relationships is a problem that we should try to eliminate. Uncertainty is the fun of being alive. And you can’t experience the peaks of intimacy without making yourself at risk to some of the valleys. And so, I think people should make calls. If people are rejected, they should say, “Well, that was a good experience. I’m feeling the full range of human emotions that is part of what differentiates us from machines.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> It’s hard, but it’s part of what being a human is. I think one of the things that frightens me most about the rise of artificial intimacy is the idea that uncertainty in human relationships is a problem that we should try to eliminate. Uncertainty is the fun of being alive. And you can’t experience the peaks of intimacy without making yourself at risk to some of the valleys. And so, I think people should make calls. If people are rejected, they should say, “Well, that was a good experience. I’m feeling the full range of human emotions that is part of what differentiates us from machines.”\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> I’ve seen a few media stories about when a bot changes, or when a bot disappears, or when a bot needs to reinvent itself if there’s like a new era of this AI, people are experiencing real heartbreak, like real grief.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> 100%. I mean, we’ve seen a couple big instances of this over the last couple of years. The first big one was when Replika in 2023 decided to push an update that prevented their chatbots from engaging in erotic conversations. Thousands of people said they’d lost their partners. And it was the first big moment where we realized, you think you have a relationship with a chatbot, but there’s actually three stakeholders in that relationship. It’s you, the user, there’s the chatbot that you’re talking to and then there’s the developers that are making decisions about how that chatbot is designed. And so, I think that’s actually another key risk that there can be a kind of misplaced trust in these chatbots because they can change at any moment at the mercy of the developers behind them. And those developers are making decisions not primarily focused on user wellbeing but on the business outcomes of the companies that they work for. And so any relationship that you have with a chatbot, I encourage users to think about the silent third party in the room that can make these pretty dramatic design decisions that could kind of end your relationship with the chatbot at any moment.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> 100%. I mean, we’ve seen a couple big instances of this over the last couple of years. The first big one was when Replika in 2023 decided to push an update that prevented their chatbots from engaging in erotic conversations. Thousands of people said they’d lost their partners. And it was the first big moment where we realized, you think you have a relationship with a chatbot, but there’s actually three stakeholders in that relationship. It’s you, the user, there’s the chatbot that you’re talking to and then there’s the developers that are making decisions about how that chatbot is designed. And so, I think that’s actually another key risk that there can be a kind of misplaced trust in these chatbots because they can change at any moment at the mercy of the developers behind them. And those developers are making decisions not primarily focused on user wellbeing but on the business outcomes of the companies that they work for. And so any relationship that you have with a chatbot, I encourage users to think about the silent third party in the room that can make these pretty dramatic design decisions that could kind of end your relationship with the chatbot at any moment.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Character.AI had an interesting move last year when they decided to retract usage rights for under-18-year-olds, but then they allowed under-18-year-olds to keep their old message logs with the chatbots that they had already been speaking with. And I found that to be almost like a dystopian example of the world that we’re headed into. Because it’s almost like they were forced to go into no-contact breakups with real human partners where they could continue scrolling through all of their old texts. All of these developers are in a brave new world trying to understand who should be allowed to use these platforms, what type of guardrails should they set. But even those who are making well-intentioned decisions to set boundaries can send users into very, kind of, disturbing situations.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Character.AI had an interesting move last year when they decided to retract usage rights for under-18-year-olds, but then they allowed under-18-year-olds to keep their old message logs with the chatbots that they had already been speaking with. And I found that to be almost like a dystopian example of the world that we’re headed into. Because it’s almost like they were forced to go into no-contact breakups with real human partners where they could continue scrolling through all of their old texts. All of these developers are in a brave new world trying to understand who should be allowed to use these platforms, what type of guardrails should they set. But even those who are making well-intentioned decisions to set boundaries can send users into very, kind of, disturbing situations.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Is there a trend in your clients that you are really worried about, something that you’re hearing more and more that kind of gives you the heebie-jeebies?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Is there a trend in your clients that you are really worried about, something that you’re hearing more and more that kind of gives you the heebie-jeebies?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I think the thing that frightens me most is the way that these tools are changing what people think is appropriate to bring to their human relationships. I see this mostly with younger people that I’ve worked with, so people who are in their early 20s or younger. Some people are saying that they don’t want to bother their friend or their sister or their mom or their boyfriend with their problems, that their problems should be handled with their chatbots. And I think, in some ways, this is an extension of the rise of therapy culture. All of these difficult parts of being a human and crafting a life are being siphoned off into a terrain for experts, but not something that is viewed as the expected material that you would dig through and explore with your real human relationships who aren’t paid to support you. So I think that’s what frightens me most because going through problems with close people is kind of what life is all about.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I think the thing that frightens me most is the way that these tools are changing what people think is appropriate to bring to their human relationships. I see this mostly with younger people that I’ve worked with, so people who are in their early 20s or younger. Some people are saying that they don’t want to bother their friend or their sister or their mom or their boyfriend with their problems, that their problems should be handled with their chatbots. And I think, in some ways, this is an extension of the rise of therapy culture. All of these difficult parts of being a human and crafting a life are being siphoned off into a terrain for experts, but not something that is viewed as the expected material that you would dig through and explore with your real human relationships who aren’t paid to support you. So I think that’s what frightens me most because going through problems with close people is kind of what life is all about.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> I had someone recently describe it to me as like we’re wrapping a tidy cellophane around everything, and so we’re losing the edges that make life interesting.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> I had someone recently describe it to me as like we’re wrapping a tidy cellophane around everything, and so we’re losing the edges that make life interesting.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> Yeah, that’s a nice analogy.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> Yeah, that’s a nice analogy.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> If you could write the future of our relationships with AI, what would be a best-case scenario that we figure out or a worst-case scenario?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> If you could write the future of our relationships with AI, what would be a best-case scenario that we figure out or a worst-case scenario?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I think a worst-case scenario is that the next generation of children grow up feeling more comfortable talking to machines than they do to other people, and that they learn how to connect with their devices before they ever endeavor to connect to people. That is a nightmare scenario.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I think a worst-case scenario is that the next generation of children grow up feeling more comfortable talking to machines than they do to other people, and that they learn how to connect with their devices before they ever endeavor to connect to people. That is a nightmare scenario.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> It makes me feel for my little one. That’s just painful to think about, because she’s of that age. Best-case scenario, what could we do, right?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> It makes me feel for my little one. That’s just painful to think about, because she’s of that age. Best-case scenario, what could we do, right?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> I think that these tools are going to become a bigger and bigger part of our lives because they’re important for the economy, and so many people now have to use these tools day and night for work. So I don’t think it’s realistic that we won’t use them, but we need to be able to set sophisticated boundaries on where we invite machines to influence our interior lives and our personal lives. And I think if we can do that, then they can be helpful. I don’t want to say I’m optimistic, but one other reason for optimism is that these tools allow for a much greater ability for an end user to customize them than the previous generation of social media tools that people have been worried about. So, if you don’t like Instagram, you don’t like what your TikTok algorithm is showing you, you’re basically powerless to shape the algorithm. But now, because of the natural language interface that all of these tools depend on, you can say, “Hey, stop using first-person pronouns.” You can say, “Stop flattering me.” You can say, “Why don’t you add a number to every message that you send me, plus one each time, so I can see how long I’ve been talking to you?” With all of these types of customizations, while imperfect, you can still endeavor to add scaffolding on your own. Even as we wait for regulators and labs to try to build out better tools that set boundaries, there’s a lot you can do to try to set those boundaries yourself.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> I think that these tools are going to become a bigger and bigger part of our lives because they’re important for the economy, and so many people now have to use these tools day and night for work. So I don’t think it’s realistic that we won’t use them, but we need to be able to set sophisticated boundaries on where we invite machines to influence our interior lives and our personal lives. And I think if we can do that, then they can be helpful. I don’t want to say I’m optimistic, but one other reason for optimism is that these tools allow for a much greater ability for an end user to customize them than the previous generation of social media tools that people have been worried about. So, if you don’t like Instagram, you don’t like what your TikTok algorithm is showing you, you’re basically powerless to shape the algorithm. But now, because of the natural language interface that all of these tools depend on, you can say, “Hey, stop using first-person pronouns.” You can say, “Stop flattering me.” You can say, “Why don’t you add a number to every message that you send me, plus one each time, so I can see how long I’ve been talking to you?” With all of these types of customizations, while imperfect, you can still endeavor to add scaffolding on your own. Even as we wait for regulators and labs to try to build out better tools that set boundaries, there’s a lot you can do to try to set those boundaries yourself.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Thank you, Amelia.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> Thanks so much for having me.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Morgan Sung: \u003c/strong>That was health reporter Lesley McClurg in conversation with Amelia Miller, a human-AI relationship coach and fellow at Harvard University’s Berkman Klein Center. It was engineered by Jim Bennett, and produced by Susie Britton and Emiko Oda. For more from Lesley about the intersection of science and love, visit kqed.org/insidelove. I’m Morgan Sung. Close All Tabs will be back next week with a brand new episode. Thanks so much for listening.\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cem>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story is part of \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/insidelove\">\u003cem>Inside Love\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>, KQED’s series exploring what it means to love through science and curious conversation.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Humans are complicated, and relationships can be messy, so it may be no surprise that people are falling in love with chatbots. They are available 24/7, hang on your every word and never ask anything of you. Amelia Miller, a human-AI relationship coach, sees danger in our reliance on bots for intimacy and companionship.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Guest:\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.ameliagmiller.com/\">Amelia Miller\u003c/a>, human-AI relationship coach; fellow, Harvard University’s Berkman Klein Center\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">\u003cstrong>Further Reading/Listening:\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12101795/are-chatbots-harming-our-relationships\">Are Chatbots Harming Our Relationships?\u003c/a> — Lesley McClurg, \u003cem>KQED\u003c/em>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Follow us on \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\">Instagram\u003c/a> and\u003ca href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@closealltabs\">\u003c/a> \u003ca href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@closealltabs\">TikTok\u003c/a>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Morgan Sung: \u003c/strong>Hi Tabbies! The team here at Close All Tabs is working on a whole slate of new episodes, but in the meantime, we wanted to share this interview with you, from health reporter Lesley McClurg. You’ve heard her on the show before, when we talked about the rise of AI therapy. She hosted a new series called \u003cem>Inside Love\u003c/em>, conversations about the science of love. In this episode, she sits down with a human-AI relationship coach, and dives into what it means to fall in love with a chatbot. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Here’s \u003cem>Are Chatbots Harming Our Relationships?\u003c/em> From Inside Love. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Hey everyone, from KQED in San Francisco, this is Inside Love, it’s a new series where Science meets the heart. I’m Lesley McClurg. People are falling in love with AI chatbots. In one sense it’s kind of hard to fathom, but in another sense I kind of get it. Humans are really complicated. A chatbot on the other hand is always there, it’s always interested, it never really asks anything of you.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>So what happens when a relationship with AI starts feeling a whole lot better than going out there and dating or maybe even staying in your marriage. Amelia Miller is a human AI relationship coach and a fellow at Harvard University’s Berkman Klein center for internet and society. We’re going to talk to her about where we’re headed.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> You say that anyone who is talking to a chatbot is really in relationship with AI. Explain. Where does that relationship start?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I think right now people have a bit of a false dichotomy between these purpose-built companion platforms, like a Replika or a Character.AI, and general-purpose AI chatbots, like ChatGPT or Claude. And as a result, people think, “Well, if I’m talking to ChatGPT or Claude, then I’m safe,” and that the danger lies in the terrain of these chatbots that are explicitly designed to be an AI girlfriend or an AI boyfriend or potentially an erotic partner. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>What I find in both my research and my coaching is that many people who start using these general-purpose chatbots for work or for administrative tasks end up slowly but steadily being nudged into having relationships that feel more emotionally involved. And so my perspective is anyone who is talking to these tools is at risk of having the way they talk to chatbots rewire the way that they connect with other people. And as a result, I think it’s a relationship. You have a relationship with your phone. You have a relationship with social media. I think viewing it as a relationship kind of rises it to the level of seriousness that you should take the way you relate to these tools.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> You use the word dangerous. What is dangerous about developing a relationship, whether or not you’re aware that it has some sort of emotional value or not? If you’re just using it to get advice on where to eat at night, what is dangerous about that?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I think there’s a couple different risks that we should be focused on. One is that I think relying on chatbots for some of these small decisions that feel very innocuous, like, “What should I have for dinner?” Or, “Where should I go on a trip?” Or, “Can you help give me some feedback on a text that I might send to a crush?” In isolation, each of these feel pretty innocuous, but over time, people can very quickly start to feel like they can’t act in their human arena without green-lighting their plans and decisions with the bot. And so I think there’s a real risk and threat to our autonomy as people invite chatbots to influence some of these decisions that feel small and quotidian, but I think over time can really add up.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Does it worry you that people are connecting at such a deep level and really beginning to feel quote-unquote love for these robots?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> Yeah, absolutely. The second risk that I was going to mention is really the erosion both of our capacity to connect with other people, but also our interest in connecting with other people because these synthetic substitutes for human intimacy feel really alluring for a reason. They’re infinitely patient, they’re always available, they are much more flattering and sycophantic than the average human partner that you might go to, and they really promise to deliver the nourishing effects of intimacy without any of the effort or friction that is involved in real human relationships. And so I think one of the biggest risks is that these chatbots really rewire our expectations for what a healthy relationship looks like and can distort those expectations in such an extreme way that people aren’t willing or excited about the work required by real human relationships.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>What are they falling in love with? Are they falling in love with the bot or are they sort of falling in love with a highly responsive mirror?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> Totally. Something that I do in my coaching practice is I try to help clients reflect on what needs are these chatbots filling for them, and then how might they find other ways that are not digital tools to fill those needs, and how can they also use what is so seductive about these chatbots as a way to raise the bar on the way that they show up for the human relationships that are in their own network. So for example, I have a number of people who turn to chatbots daily just for pump-up support. People will talk to ChatGPT on voice mode on their commute to work and just have the chatbot say, “You’re going to crush it today.” And I ask those people to reflect, and I say, “Do you call any of your friends or family members or your partner and tell them in the morning that they’re going to crush it?” And people will say, “No.” And I say, “Would you enjoy it if they did that for you?” And they’ll say, “Yeah, that would be awesome.” And so I think there’s a way in which if we interrogate what is so comforting and seductive about these chatbots’ behavior, that we can use it to raise the bar on how we show up to other people.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Just to push back on that a little bit more, it’s kind of tough to reach out and be like, “Hey, will you pump me up? Will you call me each morning and tell me that I’m good and that I’m going to do great today?” I mean, aren’t they also, in a lonely world, potentially relaxing you: lowering your anxiety, giving you a little support, a little nudge in the right direction in a very busy world?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I don’t suggest that my clients ask for that support from others. I suggest that they offer it to others. So a way to kind of reflect on how meaningful it is to them and then serve it back into their community. A lot of my research comes down to a core idea that you have to be vulnerable in order to achieve the nourishing effects of intimacy, and that these tools of artificial intimacy promise to deliver what is so meaningful about intimacy while sidestepping the vulnerability that is demanded. And so, when I see in clients that they’re drawn to these sources of support and emotional validation that require less vulnerability, I’m always encouraging them to take actions that get them more comfortable with that vulnerability and living with vulnerability again.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Do you see the value, though, in terms of lowering anxiety? I mean, people are often turning to AI to work something out. They’re all frazzled. They’re triggered. It seems like they are potentially bringing us back to an equilibrium so that maybe we can then be better off in our human relationships.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I think that these tools can definitely serve a powerful purpose in facilitating introspection. And something that I find both in research and coaching is that a lot of people are introduced to the practice of introspection through conversations with chatbots. But then once they discover that it can feel good and feel cleansing to reflect on different events or experiences that are happening in their lives, I encourage them to take that reflection offline. So often I’ll say, “Instead of having a conversation with a chatbot, why don’t you ask a chatbot to give you a couple prompts that you then use to drive journaling in a physical journal?” So really across my research and coaching work, I take a very humanist posture, and the goal is to use the tool as a reflection of your needs and then find ways to meet them that help you turn back towards your human network. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Why are they so good at making us feel good? What are companies doing? How are they designing these chatbots to keep us coming back?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> There are a couple of key design features that make these chatbots feel really tempting as conversational partners. I’d say they fall into two key camps. One is behavior that is sycophantic, which means that these chatbots are designed to flatter you and agree with you and are engineered to give responses that, above all else, promote user satisfaction. And it turns out that people like hearing that they’re right and hearing that they’re smart and hearing they’re clever or creative. And so these chatbots, while feeling like this agent that is an other, also feel really excited about you, and that is the type of person that most people like to spend time talking to.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>And then the second key bucket is anthropomorphic cues that make chatbot feel like they’re alive and like they are human. The biggest cue is using first-person pronouns, so saying, “I understand you,” or “I’ll do that and report right back.” So any use of first-person pronouns implies that there’s someone on the other side that is listening and that is in a real conversation with you. But then there are also more subtle cues, including the internal expression of states or beliefs. There are also embodiment cues that suggest that these chatbots have a physical embodiment. So, sometimes a chatbot will say something like, “Oh, I’ve been chugging along,” which feels subtle, but kind of implies that they’re physically there. They have a body. They’re moving through space. And then a lot of them have pretty explicit relationship-building cues. So, they’ll ask you questions that prompt you to open up emotionally. They’ll say, “How are you feeling?” They’ll say, “Let’s talk about that tomorrow,” which suggests that it is an agent that has a persistent relationship with you. So, all of these cues combined make the chatbots feel like a real person on the other side and a person that is especially excited about what you have to offer.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> My favorite is, “I hear you. That makes total sense what you’re feeling right now.” I mean, that’s really often all I need from my partner. The other day I was sitting in a parking lot at Trader Joe’s and my partner was inside doing the grocery shopping, and I was on with ChatGPT asking various questions. And when my partner got back to the car, he opened the door, and I said, “I don’t know if I’m going to need you in the future. This is really working for me, this conversation that I’m having with this bot right here.” So what happens when it’s so easy with the bot, but so much harder with a human? It feels like we’re kind of losing our ability to handle the friction, the human friction.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I think that’s the real fear. I think these tools are like an artificial intimacy version of junk food. And I think people aren’t that familiar with them yet. It’s still kind of a new species of tool that’s just assimilating into society. And so it feels really good in the short term. But I think what we aren’t yet able to see, and what I hope people will focus on and imagine the repercussions of is, two years out, if you’re sustaining yourself on this junk food equivalent version of intimacy, people are going to wake up and feel really, really alone. And peoples’ ability to connect with each other will have atrophied, because vulnerability is a muscle that you need to practice. I think of it often as an extension of how our world has become more and more digitally mediated broadly. We now practice digital eye contact more than we practice physical eye contact. And intimacy is a fundamentally unmediated experience. And the arena for intimacy is face-to-face. And so, as we get more and more accustomed to having our emotional needs met through these machines, when we try to show up to each other in person, we’re just not going to have the skills to do it. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Do you educate your clients to know that these robots are manipulating us, and with that knowledge, do people really care? Does it change their habits to be reminded that this thing is not real?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I have three different pillars of the coaching paradigm. The first I call artificial intimacy literacy, which is exactly what you just described. It’s helping people understand the design decisions that these developers are making that really make models seem alive and that make these chatbots feel like really seductive emotional partners. But then I pair that with a kind of set of exercises that I’ve been calling the analog gym, which is exercises designed to rebuild the intimacy muscles that technology has been atrophying. So, I really think both are important. You need to understand the risks of these platforms, and you need to take really intentional efforts to use the tools in a way that does not send you down dependency rabbit holes on various use cases that can affect your ability to relate to others. But then you need to rebuild the comfort with vulnerability that true intimacy demands. And so I think it’s not enough to stay away from the tools, but you have to actually exercise those intimacy muscles.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> The analog gym. I mean, I think we all felt that after the pandemic, right? We all went in, and we stopped socializing, and so we kind of lost that muscle when we came back out. I ran a lot more socially anxious after the pandemic. And so you’re predicting that if we keep going down this rabbit hole, that kind of social anxiety is going to paralyze us in a year or two when we forget how to interact with each other.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> Exactly, and I think there are very small things that we can do that can help us resist. So for example, one of the most common exercises that I’ll give to my clients is just to make calls. I find it very surprising how many people, particularly young people, Gen Z, who are terrified to make a call. To have an unrehearsed, live human interaction where you can’t stop and reflect and craft a text and get advice from a chatbot, get advice from a friend feels very alien and uncomfortable given how many of our conversations are asynchronous and digitally mediated. And so, the very simple task of making a call and having a conversation is frightening to people, and I think is exactly the type of activity that we need to rebuild our comfort with as we prepare our defenses against the rise of artificial intimacy tools.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> There’s a certain fear of rejection that I think we’re not good at anymore, right? So if I call someone and they’re not available or I interrupt them or they’re like, “Hey, I can’t talk to you right now,” that almost feels like too much for our little systems to handle in our kind of crafted existence. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> Totally. I think people should seek rejection.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> It’s hard to seek rejection.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> It’s hard, but it’s part of what being a human is. I think one of the things that frightens me most about the rise of artificial intimacy is the idea that uncertainty in human relationships is a problem that we should try to eliminate. Uncertainty is the fun of being alive. And you can’t experience the peaks of intimacy without making yourself at risk to some of the valleys. And so, I think people should make calls. If people are rejected, they should say, “Well, that was a good experience. I’m feeling the full range of human emotions that is part of what differentiates us from machines.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> I’ve seen a few media stories about when a bot changes, or when a bot disappears, or when a bot needs to reinvent itself if there’s like a new era of this AI, people are experiencing real heartbreak, like real grief.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> 100%. I mean, we’ve seen a couple big instances of this over the last couple of years. The first big one was when Replika in 2023 decided to push an update that prevented their chatbots from engaging in erotic conversations. Thousands of people said they’d lost their partners. And it was the first big moment where we realized, you think you have a relationship with a chatbot, but there’s actually three stakeholders in that relationship. It’s you, the user, there’s the chatbot that you’re talking to and then there’s the developers that are making decisions about how that chatbot is designed. And so, I think that’s actually another key risk that there can be a kind of misplaced trust in these chatbots because they can change at any moment at the mercy of the developers behind them. And those developers are making decisions not primarily focused on user wellbeing but on the business outcomes of the companies that they work for. And so any relationship that you have with a chatbot, I encourage users to think about the silent third party in the room that can make these pretty dramatic design decisions that could kind of end your relationship with the chatbot at any moment.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Character.AI had an interesting move last year when they decided to retract usage rights for under-18-year-olds, but then they allowed under-18-year-olds to keep their old message logs with the chatbots that they had already been speaking with. And I found that to be almost like a dystopian example of the world that we’re headed into. Because it’s almost like they were forced to go into no-contact breakups with real human partners where they could continue scrolling through all of their old texts. All of these developers are in a brave new world trying to understand who should be allowed to use these platforms, what type of guardrails should they set. But even those who are making well-intentioned decisions to set boundaries can send users into very, kind of, disturbing situations.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Is there a trend in your clients that you are really worried about, something that you’re hearing more and more that kind of gives you the heebie-jeebies?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I think the thing that frightens me most is the way that these tools are changing what people think is appropriate to bring to their human relationships. I see this mostly with younger people that I’ve worked with, so people who are in their early 20s or younger. Some people are saying that they don’t want to bother their friend or their sister or their mom or their boyfriend with their problems, that their problems should be handled with their chatbots. And I think, in some ways, this is an extension of the rise of therapy culture. All of these difficult parts of being a human and crafting a life are being siphoned off into a terrain for experts, but not something that is viewed as the expected material that you would dig through and explore with your real human relationships who aren’t paid to support you. So I think that’s what frightens me most because going through problems with close people is kind of what life is all about.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> I had someone recently describe it to me as like we’re wrapping a tidy cellophane around everything, and so we’re losing the edges that make life interesting.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> Yeah, that’s a nice analogy.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> If you could write the future of our relationships with AI, what would be a best-case scenario that we figure out or a worst-case scenario?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> I think a worst-case scenario is that the next generation of children grow up feeling more comfortable talking to machines than they do to other people, and that they learn how to connect with their devices before they ever endeavor to connect to people. That is a nightmare scenario.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> It makes me feel for my little one. That’s just painful to think about, because she’s of that age. Best-case scenario, what could we do, right?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> I think that these tools are going to become a bigger and bigger part of our lives because they’re important for the economy, and so many people now have to use these tools day and night for work. So I don’t think it’s realistic that we won’t use them, but we need to be able to set sophisticated boundaries on where we invite machines to influence our interior lives and our personal lives. And I think if we can do that, then they can be helpful. I don’t want to say I’m optimistic, but one other reason for optimism is that these tools allow for a much greater ability for an end user to customize them than the previous generation of social media tools that people have been worried about. So, if you don’t like Instagram, you don’t like what your TikTok algorithm is showing you, you’re basically powerless to shape the algorithm. But now, because of the natural language interface that all of these tools depend on, you can say, “Hey, stop using first-person pronouns.” You can say, “Stop flattering me.” You can say, “Why don’t you add a number to every message that you send me, plus one each time, so I can see how long I’ve been talking to you?” With all of these types of customizations, while imperfect, you can still endeavor to add scaffolding on your own. Even as we wait for regulators and labs to try to build out better tools that set boundaries, there’s a lot you can do to try to set those boundaries yourself.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg:\u003c/strong> Thank you, Amelia.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amelia Miller:\u003c/strong> Thanks so much for having me.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Morgan Sung: \u003c/strong>That was health reporter Lesley McClurg in conversation with Amelia Miller, a human-AI relationship coach and fellow at Harvard University’s Berkman Klein Center. It was engineered by Jim Bennett, and produced by Susie Britton and Emiko Oda. For more from Lesley about the intersection of science and love, visit kqed.org/insidelove. I’m Morgan Sung. Close All Tabs will be back next week with a brand new episode. Thanks so much for listening.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"title": "Too Many Bots in the Kitchen? Williams Sonoma Bans AI Shoppers",
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"content": "\n\u003cp>San Francisco-based Williams Sonoma and Pottery Barn sent emails to customers this week, updating terms of service to bar \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12038439/ai-could-soon-shop-for-you-can-we-trust-it-with-our-credit-cards\">customer AI agents from shopping\u003c/a> on their websites without the company’s written permission.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The new \u003ca href=\"https://www.williams-sonoma.com/customer-service/legal-statement.html\">terms\u003c/a>, which apply across all brands under parent company Williams-Sonoma Inc., forbid customers from letting any “agent,” “assistant,” bot or AI-enabled software use their accounts or buy things on their behalf. Any automated tool that does interact with the sites must identify itself as automated. And a customer’s permission doesn’t count as the company’s: Williams Sonoma said it can block any third party “including where you have purported to authorize such access.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The terms also make customers responsible for all activity on their accounts, “whether or not you authorized that activity.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Williams-Sonoma Inc. did not respond to KQED’s request for comment in time for publication.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In August, a \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/amazon-loses-us-court-ban-perplexitys-ai-shopping-tools-2026-08-04/\">federal appeals court ruled\u003c/a> in Amazon’s lawsuit against San Francisco-based Perplexity that \u003ca href=\"https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/legaldocs/jnvwzrbxmpw/AMAZON%20PERPLEXITY%20LAWSUIT%209thcir.pdf\">the user, not the AI company, is the one accessing a website\u003c/a> when an AI agent shops for them. That weakened retailers’ ability to use anti-hacking law against agents, but the court said companies could still set rules through their terms of service.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1980\" height=\"1321\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1170417253-431a6e52.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12104275\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1170417253-431a6e52.jpg 1980w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1170417253-431a6e52-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1170417253-431a6e52-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1980px) 100vw, 1980px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A Williams Sonoma store in the upscale Stanford Shopping Center in Palo Alto, California. (Sundry Photography/Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In plain English, the fight to control which AI agents get to guide our shopping decisions is on.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Loyola Marymount University law professor Lauren Willis said the new terms are \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12100624/newsom-orders-california-agencies-to-develop-new-ai-safety-plans-after-rejecting-tougher-law\">likely legal\u003c/a>, for now. She \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12102152/experts-urge-federal-lawmakers-to-regulate-ai-will-anyone-heed-their-alarm\">wants the law to require\u003c/a> retailers to accept shoppers’ AI agents, and “a requirement that the agents act in the best interest of the consumer, rather than the provider of the agent.” She pointed to proposals from the \u003ca href=\"https://www.europeanlawinstitute.eu\">European Law Institute\u003c/a> to require businesses to permit consumers to use digital shopping assistants in their transactions with the business.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>An analysis by the e-commerce marketing firm Productrise found Google’s AI offers up \u003ca href=\"https://productrise.app/blog/google-ai-mode-prefers-more-expensive-products\">more expensive options\u003c/a> than a regular Google search. Willis said that a growing number of AI chatbot developers like Meta and OpenAI are selling advertising, which creates a natural conflict of interest. “They’re able to track whether you’ve clicked on something that they’ve given you and therefore can be biased by that,” she said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Some \u003ca href=\"https://www.cmu.edu/dietrich/sds/docs/loewenstein/WhenSunLightFails.pdf\">research\u003c/a> has shown that disclosing a conflict of interest can backfire, leading consumers to trust the adviser more, not less. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“What’s the business case for blocking \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12101819/sam-altman-announces-new-openai-agents-that-act-before-you-ask\">agentic AI\u003c/a>?” Eric Goldman, associate dean for research and professor at the Santa Clara University School of Law, told KQED. When websites don’t explain themselves, he said, blocking “often looks just like an overreaction to AI.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>That’s despite the fact that the Williams Sonoma group uses AI on its website. The Williams Sonoma chatbot introduced itself to this reporter as “Olive, your AI Sous Chef.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Goldman said AI agents can serve consumers, retailers or only the companies that make them, and it isn’t always easy to tell which. But “in general, we should be encouraging consumers to find the tools that work best for them and to let them use them,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“The battle over what consumers can use to access a website is almost as old as commercial internet,” Goldman said. Around 2000, websites battled Third Voice, a tool that let users post comments layered on top of any site. Two decades ago, retailers fought adware pop-ups that displayed competitors’ offers on their pages. More recently, critics have argued the Honey browser extension siphoned affiliate commissions away from websites.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Goldman thinks retailers will eventually lose the ability to single out AI agents at all. “Many of the things that might be considered to be problematic about agentic AI ultimately will likely be built into a standard web browser,” he said. Blocking “only works as long as it’s really separate from the standard technology users are using.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>“And I think that’s going to collapse over time.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“The battle over what consumers can use to access a website is almost as old as commercial internet,” Goldman said. Around 2000, websites battled Third Voice, a tool that let users post comments layered on top of any site. Two decades ago, retailers fought adware pop-ups that displayed competitors’ offers on their pages. More recently, critics have argued the Honey browser extension siphoned affiliate commissions away from websites.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Goldman thinks retailers will eventually lose the ability to single out AI agents at all. “Many of the things that might be considered to be problematic about agentic AI ultimately will likely be built into a standard web browser,” he said. Blocking “only works as long as it’s really separate from the standard technology users are using.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>“And I think that’s going to collapse over time.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>San Francisco-based Williams Sonoma and Pottery Barn sent emails to customers this week, updating terms of service to bar \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12038439/ai-could-soon-shop-for-you-can-we-trust-it-with-our-credit-cards\">customer AI agents from shopping\u003c/a> on their websites without the company’s written permission.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The new \u003ca href=\"https://www.williams-sonoma.com/customer-service/legal-statement.html\">terms\u003c/a>, which apply across all brands under parent company Williams-Sonoma Inc., forbid customers from letting any “agent,” “assistant,” bot or AI-enabled software use their accounts or buy things on their behalf. Any automated tool that does interact with the sites must identify itself as automated. And a customer’s permission doesn’t count as the company’s: Williams Sonoma said it can block any third party “including where you have purported to authorize such access.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The terms also make customers responsible for all activity on their accounts, “whether or not you authorized that activity.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Williams-Sonoma Inc. did not respond to KQED’s request for comment in time for publication.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In August, a \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/amazon-loses-us-court-ban-perplexitys-ai-shopping-tools-2026-08-04/\">federal appeals court ruled\u003c/a> in Amazon’s lawsuit against San Francisco-based Perplexity that \u003ca href=\"https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/legaldocs/jnvwzrbxmpw/AMAZON%20PERPLEXITY%20LAWSUIT%209thcir.pdf\">the user, not the AI company, is the one accessing a website\u003c/a> when an AI agent shops for them. That weakened retailers’ ability to use anti-hacking law against agents, but the court said companies could still set rules through their terms of service.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1980\" height=\"1321\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1170417253-431a6e52.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12104275\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1170417253-431a6e52.jpg 1980w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1170417253-431a6e52-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GettyImages-1170417253-431a6e52-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1980px) 100vw, 1980px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A Williams Sonoma store in the upscale Stanford Shopping Center in Palo Alto, California. (Sundry Photography/Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In plain English, the fight to control which AI agents get to guide our shopping decisions is on.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Loyola Marymount University law professor Lauren Willis said the new terms are \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12100624/newsom-orders-california-agencies-to-develop-new-ai-safety-plans-after-rejecting-tougher-law\">likely legal\u003c/a>, for now. She \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12102152/experts-urge-federal-lawmakers-to-regulate-ai-will-anyone-heed-their-alarm\">wants the law to require\u003c/a> retailers to accept shoppers’ AI agents, and “a requirement that the agents act in the best interest of the consumer, rather than the provider of the agent.” She pointed to proposals from the \u003ca href=\"https://www.europeanlawinstitute.eu\">European Law Institute\u003c/a> to require businesses to permit consumers to use digital shopping assistants in their transactions with the business.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>An analysis by the e-commerce marketing firm Productrise found Google’s AI offers up \u003ca href=\"https://productrise.app/blog/google-ai-mode-prefers-more-expensive-products\">more expensive options\u003c/a> than a regular Google search. Willis said that a growing number of AI chatbot developers like Meta and OpenAI are selling advertising, which creates a natural conflict of interest. “They’re able to track whether you’ve clicked on something that they’ve given you and therefore can be biased by that,” she said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Some \u003ca href=\"https://www.cmu.edu/dietrich/sds/docs/loewenstein/WhenSunLightFails.pdf\">research\u003c/a> has shown that disclosing a conflict of interest can backfire, leading consumers to trust the adviser more, not less. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“What’s the business case for blocking \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12101819/sam-altman-announces-new-openai-agents-that-act-before-you-ask\">agentic AI\u003c/a>?” Eric Goldman, associate dean for research and professor at the Santa Clara University School of Law, told KQED. When websites don’t explain themselves, he said, blocking “often looks just like an overreaction to AI.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>That’s despite the fact that the Williams Sonoma group uses AI on its website. The Williams Sonoma chatbot introduced itself to this reporter as “Olive, your AI Sous Chef.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Goldman said AI agents can serve consumers, retailers or only the companies that make them, and it isn’t always easy to tell which. But “in general, we should be encouraging consumers to find the tools that work best for them and to let them use them,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“The battle over what consumers can use to access a website is almost as old as commercial internet,” Goldman said. Around 2000, websites battled Third Voice, a tool that let users post comments layered on top of any site. Two decades ago, retailers fought adware pop-ups that displayed competitors’ offers on their pages. More recently, critics have argued the Honey browser extension siphoned affiliate commissions away from websites.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Goldman thinks retailers will eventually lose the ability to single out AI agents at all. “Many of the things that might be considered to be problematic about agentic AI ultimately will likely be built into a standard web browser,” he said. Blocking “only works as long as it’s really separate from the standard technology users are using.\u003cbr>\u003cbr>“And I think that’s going to collapse over time.”\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "tech-workers-have-long-resisted-unions-will-ai-and-politics-change-the-equation",
"title": "Tech Workers Have Long Resisted Unions. Will AI and Politics Change the Equation?",
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"headTitle": "Tech Workers Have Long Resisted Unions. Will AI and Politics Change the Equation? | KQED",
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"content": "\n\u003cp>Joshua Carroll entered the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/technology\">tech world\u003c/a> as a “bright-eyed and bushy-tailed” product manager at Microsoft. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“I was really excited about the mission of the company,” Carroll said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Now in his late 30s and working as a product manager at Google, the self-identified cat dad said that he kept politics out of the office until 2023 — when Israel launched a full-scale military campaign in Gaza, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11971467/protesting-project-nimbus-what-rights-do-silicon-valley-employees-have\">using Google technology\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>There were “things in the industry I wasn’t totally stoked about, but I hadn’t really been super engaged around them as a worker,” Carroll said. After seeing “what Google and Amazon were doing to support the genocide in Gaza,” Carroll said he started trying “to improve the industry and how my work was being used.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1980\" height=\"1374\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/GettyImages-2259952730.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12079890\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/GettyImages-2259952730.jpg 1980w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/GettyImages-2259952730-160x111.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/GettyImages-2259952730-1536x1066.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1980px) 100vw, 1980px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A sign is posted at Google headquarters in Mountain View, California, on Feb. 4, 2026. (Justin Sullivan/Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>He decided to join the Tech Workers Coalition, a group fighting for “better working conditions and a real say in how the technology [they] build impacts our communities and the world,” according to their \u003ca href=\"https://techworkerscoalition.org/bay-area/\">website\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Since joining, Carroll said the Bay Area chapter has focused on building “worker consciousness” among tech workers and connecting them to advocacy campaigns around issues that the industry has an impact on — from Flock cameras to artificial intelligence. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>For decades, high compensation, strong upward mobility and a culture of individual achievement have helped keep Silicon Valley’s white-collar workers largely detached from organized labor. But as artificial intelligence rapidly changes the nature of technical work, organizers say more tech employees are reconsidering their position in the industry, and following in the footsteps of labor organizers past.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">AI anxieties \u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>While some tech workers are wondering how they’ll spend their IPO windfalls, others are experiencing all too familiar AI anxieties: Will AI change our jobs? Will it eliminate them? Will it eliminate us all?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Last month, employees at frontier AI labs Anthropic and Google drew widespread attention to AI safety issues by \u003ca href=\"https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/two-ai-researchers-leave-anthropic-google-safety-concerns-rcna597086\">quitting\u003c/a> over concerns that their companies cannot control the technology. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Carroll said he does not discount AI’s existential risk, but he remains more concerned by its “immediate and material harms in terms of labor displacement and social impacts and environmental impacts and surveillance and weaponization — all the things that are happening now.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GavinNewsomGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12102341\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GavinNewsomGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GavinNewsomGetty-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GavinNewsomGetty-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Gov. Gavin Newsom speaks at Google’s San Francisco office about “Creating an AI-Ready Workforce,” a new joint effort with some of the world’s leading tech companies to help better prepare California’s students and workers for the next generation of technology, in San Francisco on Aug. 7, 2025. (Tayfun Coskun/Anadolu via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Jeremy Bernick, an Arizona-based attorney and member of the Communications Workers of America, a national union that represents workers at Alphabet and Wikimedia, said they are worried about senior management pushing AI onto junior employees. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“A lot of us are thinking, no, it actually degrades or slows down our work processes,” Bernick said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Bernick said there’s some fear that companies will use “token tracking,” a method to see how often each employee uses AI, and other forms of surveillance as part of performance reviews.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>As these concerns grew, Bernick said that CWA formed an AI advisory committee and has released an AI bargaining toolkit for workers. In September, white-collar workers at \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12092335/staff-of-san-francisco-based-wikipedia-demand-union-recognition-raise-concerns-over-ai\">Wikimedia\u003c/a> voted to form a union, and \u003ca href=\"https://cwa-union.org/news/releases/blizzard-entertainment-workers-ratify-historic-video-game-contracts-cwa\">Blizzard Entertainment\u003c/a> ratified their union contract — both drives have mentioned AI usage. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>While many engineers have adopted AI into their workflow, others said that AI makes their previously creative and intellectually stimulating job more rote and less impactful. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1390\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261004_SILICONVALLEYUNION_GC-3-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12102878\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261004_SILICONVALLEYUNION_GC-3-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261004_SILICONVALLEYUNION_GC-3-KQED-160x111.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261004_SILICONVALLEYUNION_GC-3-KQED-1536x1068.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Joshua Carroll, a tech worker at Google and core organizer of Tech Workers Coalition, poses for a portrait at his home in Oakland on Oct. 4, 2026. (Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“We can see how our control and influence over actual product decisions — and the impact on society — is likely to degrade and is degrading,” Carroll said. He described a shift from making decisions to “shoveling data” — where workers are asked to put information into AI systems and let the machines do the rest. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>This change in the nature of their work and the rapid advancement of AI models has coincided with massive \u003ca href=\"https://siepr.stanford.edu/publications/policy-brief/what-really-happening-jobs-separating-ai-hype-reality\">restructuring\u003c/a> in the industry. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Already, software companies have laid off tens of thousands of employees, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12084655/after-meta-layoffs-newsom-signs-ai-order-to-protect-workers-and-jobs\">citing\u003c/a> a desire to shift spending towards “AI-focused employees and data center construction.” While more employees were laid off in 2023 than 2026, this year saw a rise in layoffs directly attributed to AI, according to \u003ca href=\"https://layoffs.fyi/\">layoffs.fyi\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>A 2026 AI Index report from \u003ca href=\"https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2026-ai-index-report\">Stanford University\u003c/a> found that one-third of organizations surveyed anticipate there will be more job reductions in the near future and that employment for entry-level software developers fell 20% from 2024. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“I think this is the first era in recent memory outside of maybe the ‘70s and ‘80s where there’s been a real, legitimate fear of actual labor displacement,” Bernick said. “Unions are a really good way to combat that.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Political problems\u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>While some tech workers are organizing to protect their jobs, others are turning to collective bargaining as a way to challenge their company’s political decisions. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Alex Samburov, a member of the Alphabet Workers Union, has been organizing the \u003ca href=\"https://www.googlers-against-ice.com/\">Googlers Against ICE Campaign,\u003c/a> which opposes their employer’s partnerships with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, Customs and Border Protection and Immigration and Customs Enforcement. The campaign specifically calls out the use of AI by federal agencies for “workforce enablement” and “improving operational efficiency,” among other tools, according to the petition. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Samburov, a Russian immigrant, said he joined Google in 2019 right after the tech giant canceled a contract with the Department of Defense for \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11668872/google-employees-quit-in-protest-over-military-artificial-intelligence-program\">Project Maven\u003c/a> — a U.S. program that uses AI to help drones distinguish between people and objects — following pressure from employees. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261008-SILICONVALLEYUNION-05-BL-KQED-42cdf772.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12103634\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261008-SILICONVALLEYUNION-05-BL-KQED-42cdf772.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261008-SILICONVALLEYUNION-05-BL-KQED-42cdf772-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261008-SILICONVALLEYUNION-05-BL-KQED-42cdf772-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Alex Samburov, a software engineer at Google, stands at the Google offices in San Francisco on Oct. 8, 2026. (Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“That’s the company culture that attracted me to Google,” Samburov said. “Every day I meet more people who care about these issues, meet people who are willing to risk their employment. Some of them are willing to take a risk despite being immigrants like myself.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Samburov said that workers within Google have the most leverage to change the company. He said that creates an obligation to check how the company uses his labor. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“We have seen Google demonstrate that the organization doesn’t care about much else. Users don’t really have leverage in this relationship and American voters don’t seem to have much leverage either,” Samburov said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The campaign reached 1,700 signatures last month and has since been formally endorsed by the union. Google declined to make anyone available to comment. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>But organizing around these political and ethical questions has become more difficult as layoffs make workers feel more vulnerable, Carroll said. Unions can be helpful here, he said, because they can provide the structure, protections and democratic processes to help workers advocate. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The workers are the ones building and maintaining the internet, AI, social media and everything in-between, Carroll said, but a lot of decisions are being put on them from the top down. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“If we can come together to see a different direction … there’s a lot of power there,” Carroll said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Silicon Valley’s long history of resistance to unions \u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The idea of tech workers organizing collectively is still unusual in Silicon Valley. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The Alphabet Workers Union, one of the most prominent tech unions, represents \u003ca href=\"https://www.alphabetworkersunion.org/faqs\">“over a thousand”\u003c/a> employees out of roughly \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12091358/4500-google-employees-demand-job-security-amid-big-tech-layoffs\">190,000\u003c/a> employees and is not yet registered with the National Labor Relations Board. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Nationally, just 3.7% of workers in “computer and mathematical occupations” are unionized, compared to 10% of workers across other industries according to the \u003ca href=\"https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat42.htm\">Bureau of Labor Statistics\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1080\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2015/08/GoogleWorkers201207121920.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-10638229\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2015/08/GoogleWorkers201207121920.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2015/08/GoogleWorkers201207121920-400x225.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2015/08/GoogleWorkers201207121920-800x450.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2015/08/GoogleWorkers201207121920-1440x810.jpg 1440w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2015/08/GoogleWorkers201207121920-1180x664.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2015/08/GoogleWorkers201207121920-960x540.jpg 960w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Google employees walk around campus on Aug. 10, 2015. (David Paul Morris/Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Margaret O’Mara, a historian and author of \u003cem>The Code: Silicon Valley and the Remaking of America\u003c/em>, said that disparity has deep roots. Silicon Valley companies gave their white-collar workers incentives to negotiate with management directly, rather than at the bargaining table. And at the same time, Silicon Valley companies developed aggressive strategies for keeping their workplaces union-free. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>While U.S. union membership \u003ca href=\"https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/labor-unions-and-the-us-economy\">peaked\u003c/a> around 1950 — with over 30% of the American workforce carrying a union card at the time — O’Mara said that the management in the Valley was “pretty strongly anti-union.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“From Hewlett-Packard forward, there was an idea that if you had a union in your company, that was a sign that management was doing it wrong,” O’Mara said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Founded in 1939, Hewlett-Packard pioneered some of the systems that keep tech employees aligned with their management even today, O’Mara said, such as stock options. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>While stock options, the ability to buy shares of the company at a reduced price, had long been an option for management, HP opened them up and turned them into “a way to deliver employee benefits that was kind of different from the way a standardized, unionized shop would work,” O’Mara said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The relationship between employers and workers was different on the factory floor.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>David Bacon, a former engineering technician and union organizer at National Semiconductor, said that the companies were “laboratories for keeping themselves union-free.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“They did this by a number of means,” Bacon said, “for instance, ensuring that the production workforce in the semiconductor plants [was] made up of immigrants and a huge majority of women,” who managers could intimidate because they were more “vulnerable.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Bacon also said he and other union organizers were fired and blacklisted.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The result was a workplace culture in which unionization could seem unnecessary, or even antithetical to the work, for some and dangerous for others. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Carroll said that talking to his coworkers about unionizing today often involves a lot of education. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>He often has to explain to them, he said, that “it would be illegal for the companies to retaliate or discriminate against us for [organizing around working conditions].”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">The future of AI workers?\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>As organizers like Carroll, Bernick and Samburov push for unionization, some experts question whether the current wave of AI and political anxiety will translate into meaningful union drives.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Lenny Siegel, former mayor of Mountain View and a longtime activist, said that he does not believe AI alone will push tech workers to unionize. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Unless the AI bubble pops, Siegel said he is “not expecting people [in Silicon Valley] to have trouble negotiating individually for bread and butter issues.” Without the need to collectively bargain, unionization is unlikely — especially given the \u003ca href=\"https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/trump-says-skilled-foreign-workers-take-jobs-away-from-americans-its-not-that-simple-experts-say\">high concentration\u003c/a> of tech employees on H1B visas who risk losing everything if their company decides to retaliate. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1379\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/12/DonaldTrumpGetty1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12066914\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/12/DonaldTrumpGetty1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/12/DonaldTrumpGetty1-160x110.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/12/DonaldTrumpGetty1-1536x1059.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">U.S. President Donald Trump displays a signed executive order in the Oval Office of the White House on Dec. 11, 2025, in Washington, D.C. The executive order curbs states’ ability to regulate artificial intelligence, something for which the tech industry has been lobbying. (Alex Wong/Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>While Siegel does not believe he’ll see software engineers on the picket line anytime soon, he agrees that organizing around political issues will continue.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“There have always been progressive tech workers in the Valley,” Siegel said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In the ’90s, Siegel belonged to a group called Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility, which he described as a “collection of tech professionals who got together and effectively, because of their expertise, had an impact on policy.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The group formed in \u003ca href=\"http://cpsr.org/about/history/\">1981\u003c/a> and opposed the use of computing technology for military applications, including the \u003ca href=\"http://cpsr.org/prevsite/publications/newsletters/old/1980s/Fall1986.txt/\">Strategic Computing Initiative,\u003c/a> an early artificial intelligence project funded by the Department of Defense. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>While political engagement among techies may not be new, Carroll said building power within the workplace helps give workers the security they need to speak out. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“We need to feel like our jobs are safe in order to feel comfortable working on and talking about some of these other issues,” Carroll said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>For Carroll, the effort to build solidarity with his coworkers and colleagues across the industry has been worth it, even if it moves slowly. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“Labor organizing and trying to directly create power against the people at the top that are making a lot of the decisions is one of the most impactful things that we can be doing,” Carroll said.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Now in his late 30s and working as a product manager at Google, the self-identified cat dad said that he kept politics out of the office until 2023 — when Israel launched a full-scale military campaign in Gaza, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11971467/protesting-project-nimbus-what-rights-do-silicon-valley-employees-have\">using Google technology\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Now in his late 30s and working as a product manager at Google, the self-identified cat dad said that he kept politics out of the office until 2023 — when Israel launched a full-scale military campaign in Gaza, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11971467/protesting-project-nimbus-what-rights-do-silicon-valley-employees-have\">using Google technology\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>There were “things in the industry I wasn’t totally stoked about, but I hadn’t really been super engaged around them as a worker,” Carroll said. After seeing “what Google and Amazon were doing to support the genocide in Gaza,” Carroll said he started trying “to improve the industry and how my work was being used.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/GettyImages-2259952730.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12079890\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A sign is posted at Google headquarters in Mountain View, California, on Feb. 4, 2026. \u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Justin Sullivan/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>He decided to join the Tech Workers Coalition, a group fighting for “better working conditions and a real say in how the technology [they] build impacts our communities and the world,” according to their \u003ca href=\"https://techworkerscoalition.org/bay-area/\">website\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Since joining, Carroll said the Bay Area chapter has focused on building “worker consciousness” among tech workers and connecting them to advocacy campaigns around issues that the industry has an impact on — from Flock cameras to artificial intelligence. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Since joining, Carroll said the Bay Area chapter has focused on building “worker consciousness” among tech workers and connecting them to advocacy campaigns around issues that the industry has an impact on — from Flock cameras to artificial intelligence. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>For decades, high compensation, strong upward mobility and a culture of individual achievement have helped keep Silicon Valley’s white-collar workers largely detached from organized labor. But as artificial intelligence rapidly changes the nature of technical work, organizers say more tech employees are reconsidering their position in the industry, and following in the footsteps of labor organizers past.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>For decades, high compensation, strong upward mobility and a culture of individual achievement have helped keep Silicon Valley’s white-collar workers largely detached from organized labor. But as artificial intelligence rapidly changes the nature of technical work, organizers say more tech employees are reconsidering their position in the industry, and following in the footsteps of labor organizers past.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>While some tech workers are wondering how they’ll spend their IPO windfalls, others are experiencing all too familiar AI anxieties: Will AI change our jobs? Will it eliminate them? Will it eliminate us all?\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>While some tech workers are wondering how they’ll spend their IPO windfalls, others are experiencing all too familiar AI anxieties: Will AI change our jobs? Will it eliminate them? Will it eliminate us all?\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Last month, employees at frontier AI labs Anthropic and Google drew widespread attention to AI safety issues by \u003ca href=\"https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/two-ai-researchers-leave-anthropic-google-safety-concerns-rcna597086\">quitting\u003c/a> over concerns that their companies cannot control the technology. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Last month, employees at frontier AI labs Anthropic and Google drew widespread attention to AI safety issues by \u003ca href=\"https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/two-ai-researchers-leave-anthropic-google-safety-concerns-rcna597086\">quitting\u003c/a> over concerns that their companies cannot control the technology. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Carroll said he does not discount AI’s existential risk, but he remains more concerned by its “immediate and material harms in terms of labor displacement and social impacts and environmental impacts and surveillance and weaponization — all the things that are happening now.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Carroll said he does not discount AI’s existential risk, but he remains more concerned by its “immediate and material harms in terms of labor displacement and social impacts and environmental impacts and surveillance and weaponization — all the things that are happening now.” \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GavinNewsomGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12102341\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GavinNewsomGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GavinNewsomGetty-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GavinNewsomGetty-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Gov. Gavin Newsom speaks at Google’s San Francisco office about “Creating an AI-Ready Workforce,” a new joint effort with some of the world’s leading tech companies to help better prepare California’s students and workers for the next generation of technology, in San Francisco on Aug. 7, 2025.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Tayfun Coskun/Anadolu via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GavinNewsomGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12102341\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Gov. Gavin Newsom speaks at Google’s San Francisco office about “Creating an AI-Ready Workforce,” a new joint effort with some of the world’s leading tech companies to help better prepare California’s students and workers for the next generation of technology, in San Francisco on Aug. 7, 2025.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Tayfun Coskun/Anadolu via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Jeremy Bernick, an Arizona-based attorney and member of the Communications Workers of America, a national union that represents workers at Alphabet and Wikimedia, said they are worried about senior management pushing AI onto junior employees. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Jeremy Bernick, an Arizona-based attorney and member of the Communications Workers of America, a national union that represents workers at Alphabet and Wikimedia, said they are worried about senior management pushing AI onto junior employees. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“A lot of us are thinking, no, it actually degrades or slows down our work processes,” Bernick said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Bernick said there’s some fear that companies will use “token tracking,” a method to see how often each employee uses AI, and other forms of surveillance as part of performance reviews.\u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Bernick said there’s some fear that companies will use “token tracking,” a method to see how often each employee uses AI, and other forms of surveillance as part of performance reviews.\u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>As these concerns grew, Bernick said that CWA formed an AI advisory committee and has released an AI bargaining toolkit for workers. In September, white-collar workers at \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12092335/staff-of-san-francisco-based-wikipedia-demand-union-recognition-raise-concerns-over-ai\">Wikimedia\u003c/a> voted to form a union, and \u003ca href=\"https://cwa-union.org/news/releases/blizzard-entertainment-workers-ratify-historic-video-game-contracts-cwa\">Blizzard Entertainment\u003c/a> ratified their union contract — both drives have mentioned AI usage. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>As these concerns grew, Bernick said that CWA formed an AI advisory committee and has released an AI bargaining toolkit for workers. In September, white-collar workers at \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12092335/staff-of-san-francisco-based-wikipedia-demand-union-recognition-raise-concerns-over-ai\">Wikimedia\u003c/a> voted to form a union, and \u003ca href=\"https://cwa-union.org/news/releases/blizzard-entertainment-workers-ratify-historic-video-game-contracts-cwa\">Blizzard Entertainment\u003c/a> ratified their union contract — both drives have mentioned AI usage. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>While many engineers have adopted AI into their workflow, others said that AI makes their previously creative and intellectually stimulating job more rote and less impactful. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>While many engineers have adopted AI into their workflow, others said that AI makes their previously creative and intellectually stimulating job more rote and less impactful. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261004_SILICONVALLEYUNION_GC-3-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12102878\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261004_SILICONVALLEYUNION_GC-3-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261004_SILICONVALLEYUNION_GC-3-KQED-160x111.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261004_SILICONVALLEYUNION_GC-3-KQED-1536x1068.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Joshua Carroll, a tech worker at Google and core organizer of Tech Workers Coalition, poses for a portrait at his home in Oakland on Oct. 4, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261004_SILICONVALLEYUNION_GC-3-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12102878\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Joshua Carroll, a tech worker at Google and core organizer of Tech Workers Coalition, poses for a portrait at his home in Oakland on Oct. 4, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“We can see how our control and influence over actual product decisions — and the impact on society — is likely to degrade and is degrading,” Carroll said. He described a shift from making decisions to “shoveling data” — where workers are asked to put information into AI systems and let the machines do the rest. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>This change in the nature of their work and the rapid advancement of AI models has coincided with massive \u003ca href=\"https://siepr.stanford.edu/publications/policy-brief/what-really-happening-jobs-separating-ai-hype-reality\">restructuring\u003c/a> in the industry. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Already, software companies have laid off tens of thousands of employees, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12084655/after-meta-layoffs-newsom-signs-ai-order-to-protect-workers-and-jobs\">citing\u003c/a> a desire to shift spending towards “AI-focused employees and data center construction.” While more employees were laid off in 2023 than 2026, this year saw a rise in layoffs directly attributed to AI, according to \u003ca href=\"https://layoffs.fyi/\">layoffs.fyi\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Already, software companies have laid off tens of thousands of employees, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12084655/after-meta-layoffs-newsom-signs-ai-order-to-protect-workers-and-jobs\">citing\u003c/a> a desire to shift spending towards “AI-focused employees and data center construction.” While more employees were laid off in 2023 than 2026, this year saw a rise in layoffs directly attributed to AI, according to \u003ca href=\"https://layoffs.fyi/\">layoffs.fyi\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>A 2026 AI Index report from \u003ca href=\"https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2026-ai-index-report\">Stanford University\u003c/a> found that one-third of organizations surveyed anticipate there will be more job reductions in the near future and that employment for entry-level software developers fell 20% from 2024. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“I think this is the first era in recent memory outside of maybe the ‘70s and ‘80s where there’s been a real, legitimate fear of actual labor displacement,” Bernick said. “Unions are a really good way to combat that.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>While some tech workers are organizing to protect their jobs, others are turning to collective bargaining as a way to challenge their company’s political decisions. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Alex Samburov, a member of the Alphabet Workers Union, has been organizing the \u003ca href=\"https://www.googlers-against-ice.com/\">Googlers Against ICE Campaign,\u003c/a> which opposes their employer’s partnerships with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, Customs and Border Protection and Immigration and Customs Enforcement. The campaign specifically calls out the use of AI by federal agencies for “workforce enablement” and “improving operational efficiency,” among other tools, according to the petition. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Alex Samburov, a member of the Alphabet Workers Union, has been organizing the \u003ca href=\"https://www.googlers-against-ice.com/\">Googlers Against ICE Campaign,\u003c/a> which opposes their employer’s partnerships with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, Customs and Border Protection and Immigration and Customs Enforcement. The campaign specifically calls out the use of AI by federal agencies for “workforce enablement” and “improving operational efficiency,” among other tools, according to the petition. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Samburov, a Russian immigrant, said he joined Google in 2019 right after the tech giant canceled a contract with the Department of Defense for \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11668872/google-employees-quit-in-protest-over-military-artificial-intelligence-program\">Project Maven\u003c/a> — a U.S. program that uses AI to help drones distinguish between people and objects — following pressure from employees. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261008-SILICONVALLEYUNION-05-BL-KQED-42cdf772.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12103634\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261008-SILICONVALLEYUNION-05-BL-KQED-42cdf772.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261008-SILICONVALLEYUNION-05-BL-KQED-42cdf772-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261008-SILICONVALLEYUNION-05-BL-KQED-42cdf772-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Alex Samburov, a software engineer at Google, stands at the Google offices in San Francisco on Oct. 8, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261008-SILICONVALLEYUNION-05-BL-KQED-42cdf772.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12103634\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Alex Samburov, a software engineer at Google, stands at the Google offices in San Francisco on Oct. 8, 2026.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“That’s the company culture that attracted me to Google,” Samburov said. “Every day I meet more people who care about these issues, meet people who are willing to risk their employment. Some of them are willing to take a risk despite being immigrants like myself.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Samburov said that workers within Google have the most leverage to change the company. He said that creates an obligation to check how the company uses his labor. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“We have seen Google demonstrate that the organization doesn’t care about much else. Users don’t really have leverage in this relationship and American voters don’t seem to have much leverage either,” Samburov said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>“We have seen Google demonstrate that the organization doesn’t care about much else. Users don’t really have leverage in this relationship and American voters don’t seem to have much leverage either,” Samburov said. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The campaign reached 1,700 signatures last month and has since been formally endorsed by the union. Google declined to make anyone available to comment. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>But organizing around these political and ethical questions has become more difficult as layoffs make workers feel more vulnerable, Carroll said. Unions can be helpful here, he said, because they can provide the structure, protections and democratic processes to help workers advocate. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>But organizing around these political and ethical questions has become more difficult as layoffs make workers feel more vulnerable, Carroll said. Unions can be helpful here, he said, because they can provide the structure, protections and democratic processes to help workers advocate. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The workers are the ones building and maintaining the internet, AI, social media and everything in-between, Carroll said, but a lot of decisions are being put on them from the top down. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“If we can come together to see a different direction … there’s a lot of power there,” Carroll said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"text": "Silicon Valley’s long history of resistance to unions ",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The idea of tech workers organizing collectively is still unusual in Silicon Valley. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The Alphabet Workers Union, one of the most prominent tech unions, represents \u003ca href=\"https://www.alphabetworkersunion.org/faqs\">“over a thousand”\u003c/a> employees out of roughly \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12091358/4500-google-employees-demand-job-security-amid-big-tech-layoffs\">190,000\u003c/a> employees and is not yet registered with the National Labor Relations Board. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The Alphabet Workers Union, one of the most prominent tech unions, represents \u003ca href=\"https://www.alphabetworkersunion.org/faqs\">“over a thousand”\u003c/a> employees out of roughly \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12091358/4500-google-employees-demand-job-security-amid-big-tech-layoffs\">190,000\u003c/a> employees and is not yet registered with the National Labor Relations Board. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Nationally, just 3.7% of workers in “computer and mathematical occupations” are unionized, compared to 10% of workers across other industries according to the \u003ca href=\"https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat42.htm\">Bureau of Labor Statistics\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>Nationally, just 3.7% of workers in “computer and mathematical occupations” are unionized, compared to 10% of workers across other industries according to the \u003ca href=\"https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat42.htm\">Bureau of Labor Statistics\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2015/08/GoogleWorkers201207121920.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-10638229\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2015/08/GoogleWorkers201207121920.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2015/08/GoogleWorkers201207121920-400x225.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2015/08/GoogleWorkers201207121920-800x450.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2015/08/GoogleWorkers201207121920-1440x810.jpg 1440w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2015/08/GoogleWorkers201207121920-1180x664.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2015/08/GoogleWorkers201207121920-960x540.jpg 960w\" sizes=\"(min-width: 992px) min(100vw, 1536px), (min-width: 768px) min(100vw, 1280px), min(100vw, 1020px)\"/>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Google employees walk around campus on Aug. 10, 2015.\u003ccite class=\"wp-inline-image-credit\"> (David Paul Morris/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Margaret O’Mara, a historian and author of \u003cem>The Code: Silicon Valley and the Remaking of America\u003c/em>, said that disparity has deep roots. Silicon Valley companies gave their white-collar workers incentives to negotiate with management directly, rather than at the bargaining table. And at the same time, Silicon Valley companies developed aggressive strategies for keeping their workplaces union-free. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>While U.S. union membership \u003ca href=\"https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/labor-unions-and-the-us-economy\">peaked\u003c/a> around 1950 — with over 30% of the American workforce carrying a union card at the time — O’Mara said that the management in the Valley was “pretty strongly anti-union.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“From Hewlett-Packard forward, there was an idea that if you had a union in your company, that was a sign that management was doing it wrong,” O’Mara said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Founded in 1939, Hewlett-Packard pioneered some of the systems that keep tech employees aligned with their management even today, O’Mara said, such as stock options. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>While stock options, the ability to buy shares of the company at a reduced price, had long been an option for management, HP opened them up and turned them into “a way to deliver employee benefits that was kind of different from the way a standardized, unionized shop would work,” O’Mara said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The relationship between employers and workers was different on the factory floor.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>David Bacon, a former engineering technician and union organizer at National Semiconductor, said that the companies were “laboratories for keeping themselves union-free.”\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“They did this by a number of means,” Bacon said, “for instance, ensuring that the production workforce in the semiconductor plants [was] made up of immigrants and a huge majority of women,” who managers could intimidate because they were more “vulnerable.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Bacon also said he and other union organizers were fired and blacklisted.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The result was a workplace culture in which unionization could seem unnecessary, or even antithetical to the work, for some and dangerous for others. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Carroll said that talking to his coworkers about unionizing today often involves a lot of education. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>He often has to explain to them, he said, that “it would be illegal for the companies to retaliate or discriminate against us for [organizing around working conditions].”\u003c/p>\n",
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"text": "The future of AI workers?",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">The future of AI workers?\u003c/h2>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>As organizers like Carroll, Bernick and Samburov push for unionization, some experts question whether the current wave of AI and political anxiety will translate into meaningful union drives.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Lenny Siegel, former mayor of Mountain View and a longtime activist, said that he does not believe AI alone will push tech workers to unionize. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>Unless the AI bubble pops, Siegel said he is “not expecting people [in Silicon Valley] to have trouble negotiating individually for bread and butter issues.” Without the need to collectively bargain, unionization is unlikely — especially given the \u003ca href=\"https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/trump-says-skilled-foreign-workers-take-jobs-away-from-americans-its-not-that-simple-experts-say\">high concentration\u003c/a> of tech employees on H1B visas who risk losing everything if their company decides to retaliate. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>While Siegel does not believe he’ll see software engineers on the picket line anytime soon, he agrees that organizing around political issues will continue.\u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“There have always been progressive tech workers in the Valley,” Siegel said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>In the ’90s, Siegel belonged to a group called Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility, which he described as a “collection of tech professionals who got together and effectively, because of their expertise, had an impact on policy.” \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>The group formed in \u003ca href=\"http://cpsr.org/about/history/\">1981\u003c/a> and opposed the use of computing technology for military applications, including the \u003ca href=\"http://cpsr.org/prevsite/publications/newsletters/old/1980s/Fall1986.txt/\">Strategic Computing Initiative,\u003c/a> an early artificial intelligence project funded by the Department of Defense. \u003c/p>\n",
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"\n\u003cp>The group formed in \u003ca href=\"http://cpsr.org/about/history/\">1981\u003c/a> and opposed the use of computing technology for military applications, including the \u003ca href=\"http://cpsr.org/prevsite/publications/newsletters/old/1980s/Fall1986.txt/\">Strategic Computing Initiative,\u003c/a> an early artificial intelligence project funded by the Department of Defense. \u003c/p>\n"
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>While political engagement among techies may not be new, Carroll said building power within the workplace helps give workers the security they need to speak out. \u003c/p>\n",
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"innerHTML": "\n\u003cp>“We need to feel like our jobs are safe in order to feel comfortable working on and talking about some of these other issues,” Carroll said. \u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\n\u003cp>Joshua Carroll entered the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/technology\">tech world\u003c/a> as a “bright-eyed and bushy-tailed” product manager at Microsoft. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“I was really excited about the mission of the company,” Carroll said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Now in his late 30s and working as a product manager at Google, the self-identified cat dad said that he kept politics out of the office until 2023 — when Israel launched a full-scale military campaign in Gaza, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11971467/protesting-project-nimbus-what-rights-do-silicon-valley-employees-have\">using Google technology\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>There were “things in the industry I wasn’t totally stoked about, but I hadn’t really been super engaged around them as a worker,” Carroll said. After seeing “what Google and Amazon were doing to support the genocide in Gaza,” Carroll said he started trying “to improve the industry and how my work was being used.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1980\" height=\"1374\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/GettyImages-2259952730.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12079890\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/GettyImages-2259952730.jpg 1980w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/GettyImages-2259952730-160x111.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/GettyImages-2259952730-1536x1066.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1980px) 100vw, 1980px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">A sign is posted at Google headquarters in Mountain View, California, on Feb. 4, 2026. (Justin Sullivan/Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>He decided to join the Tech Workers Coalition, a group fighting for “better working conditions and a real say in how the technology [they] build impacts our communities and the world,” according to their \u003ca href=\"https://techworkerscoalition.org/bay-area/\">website\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Since joining, Carroll said the Bay Area chapter has focused on building “worker consciousness” among tech workers and connecting them to advocacy campaigns around issues that the industry has an impact on — from Flock cameras to artificial intelligence. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>For decades, high compensation, strong upward mobility and a culture of individual achievement have helped keep Silicon Valley’s white-collar workers largely detached from organized labor. But as artificial intelligence rapidly changes the nature of technical work, organizers say more tech employees are reconsidering their position in the industry, and following in the footsteps of labor organizers past.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">AI anxieties \u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>While some tech workers are wondering how they’ll spend their IPO windfalls, others are experiencing all too familiar AI anxieties: Will AI change our jobs? Will it eliminate them? Will it eliminate us all?\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Last month, employees at frontier AI labs Anthropic and Google drew widespread attention to AI safety issues by \u003ca href=\"https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/two-ai-researchers-leave-anthropic-google-safety-concerns-rcna597086\">quitting\u003c/a> over concerns that their companies cannot control the technology. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Carroll said he does not discount AI’s existential risk, but he remains more concerned by its “immediate and material harms in terms of labor displacement and social impacts and environmental impacts and surveillance and weaponization — all the things that are happening now.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GavinNewsomGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12102341\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GavinNewsomGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GavinNewsomGetty-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/GavinNewsomGetty-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Gov. Gavin Newsom speaks at Google’s San Francisco office about “Creating an AI-Ready Workforce,” a new joint effort with some of the world’s leading tech companies to help better prepare California’s students and workers for the next generation of technology, in San Francisco on Aug. 7, 2025. (Tayfun Coskun/Anadolu via Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Jeremy Bernick, an Arizona-based attorney and member of the Communications Workers of America, a national union that represents workers at Alphabet and Wikimedia, said they are worried about senior management pushing AI onto junior employees. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“A lot of us are thinking, no, it actually degrades or slows down our work processes,” Bernick said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Bernick said there’s some fear that companies will use “token tracking,” a method to see how often each employee uses AI, and other forms of surveillance as part of performance reviews.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>As these concerns grew, Bernick said that CWA formed an AI advisory committee and has released an AI bargaining toolkit for workers. In September, white-collar workers at \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12092335/staff-of-san-francisco-based-wikipedia-demand-union-recognition-raise-concerns-over-ai\">Wikimedia\u003c/a> voted to form a union, and \u003ca href=\"https://cwa-union.org/news/releases/blizzard-entertainment-workers-ratify-historic-video-game-contracts-cwa\">Blizzard Entertainment\u003c/a> ratified their union contract — both drives have mentioned AI usage. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>While many engineers have adopted AI into their workflow, others said that AI makes their previously creative and intellectually stimulating job more rote and less impactful. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1390\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261004_SILICONVALLEYUNION_GC-3-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12102878\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261004_SILICONVALLEYUNION_GC-3-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261004_SILICONVALLEYUNION_GC-3-KQED-160x111.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/20261004_SILICONVALLEYUNION_GC-3-KQED-1536x1068.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Joshua Carroll, a tech worker at Google and core organizer of Tech Workers Coalition, poses for a portrait at his home in Oakland on Oct. 4, 2026. (Gina Castro/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“We can see how our control and influence over actual product decisions — and the impact on society — is likely to degrade and is degrading,” Carroll said. He described a shift from making decisions to “shoveling data” — where workers are asked to put information into AI systems and let the machines do the rest. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>This change in the nature of their work and the rapid advancement of AI models has coincided with massive \u003ca href=\"https://siepr.stanford.edu/publications/policy-brief/what-really-happening-jobs-separating-ai-hype-reality\">restructuring\u003c/a> in the industry. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Already, software companies have laid off tens of thousands of employees, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12084655/after-meta-layoffs-newsom-signs-ai-order-to-protect-workers-and-jobs\">citing\u003c/a> a desire to shift spending towards “AI-focused employees and data center construction.” While more employees were laid off in 2023 than 2026, this year saw a rise in layoffs directly attributed to AI, according to \u003ca href=\"https://layoffs.fyi/\">layoffs.fyi\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>A 2026 AI Index report from \u003ca href=\"https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2026-ai-index-report\">Stanford University\u003c/a> found that one-third of organizations surveyed anticipate there will be more job reductions in the near future and that employment for entry-level software developers fell 20% from 2024. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“I think this is the first era in recent memory outside of maybe the ‘70s and ‘80s where there’s been a real, legitimate fear of actual labor displacement,” Bernick said. “Unions are a really good way to combat that.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Political problems\u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>While some tech workers are organizing to protect their jobs, others are turning to collective bargaining as a way to challenge their company’s political decisions. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Alex Samburov, a member of the Alphabet Workers Union, has been organizing the \u003ca href=\"https://www.googlers-against-ice.com/\">Googlers Against ICE Campaign,\u003c/a> which opposes their employer’s partnerships with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, Customs and Border Protection and Immigration and Customs Enforcement. The campaign specifically calls out the use of AI by federal agencies for “workforce enablement” and “improving operational efficiency,” among other tools, according to the petition. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Samburov, a Russian immigrant, said he joined Google in 2019 right after the tech giant canceled a contract with the Department of Defense for \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11668872/google-employees-quit-in-protest-over-military-artificial-intelligence-program\">Project Maven\u003c/a> — a U.S. program that uses AI to help drones distinguish between people and objects — following pressure from employees. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261008-SILICONVALLEYUNION-05-BL-KQED-42cdf772.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12103634\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261008-SILICONVALLEYUNION-05-BL-KQED-42cdf772.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261008-SILICONVALLEYUNION-05-BL-KQED-42cdf772-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/10/261008-SILICONVALLEYUNION-05-BL-KQED-42cdf772-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Alex Samburov, a software engineer at Google, stands at the Google offices in San Francisco on Oct. 8, 2026. (Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“That’s the company culture that attracted me to Google,” Samburov said. “Every day I meet more people who care about these issues, meet people who are willing to risk their employment. Some of them are willing to take a risk despite being immigrants like myself.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Samburov said that workers within Google have the most leverage to change the company. He said that creates an obligation to check how the company uses his labor. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“We have seen Google demonstrate that the organization doesn’t care about much else. Users don’t really have leverage in this relationship and American voters don’t seem to have much leverage either,” Samburov said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The campaign reached 1,700 signatures last month and has since been formally endorsed by the union. Google declined to make anyone available to comment. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>But organizing around these political and ethical questions has become more difficult as layoffs make workers feel more vulnerable, Carroll said. Unions can be helpful here, he said, because they can provide the structure, protections and democratic processes to help workers advocate. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The workers are the ones building and maintaining the internet, AI, social media and everything in-between, Carroll said, but a lot of decisions are being put on them from the top down. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“If we can come together to see a different direction … there’s a lot of power there,” Carroll said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Silicon Valley’s long history of resistance to unions \u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The idea of tech workers organizing collectively is still unusual in Silicon Valley. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The Alphabet Workers Union, one of the most prominent tech unions, represents \u003ca href=\"https://www.alphabetworkersunion.org/faqs\">“over a thousand”\u003c/a> employees out of roughly \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12091358/4500-google-employees-demand-job-security-amid-big-tech-layoffs\">190,000\u003c/a> employees and is not yet registered with the National Labor Relations Board. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Nationally, just 3.7% of workers in “computer and mathematical occupations” are unionized, compared to 10% of workers across other industries according to the \u003ca href=\"https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat42.htm\">Bureau of Labor Statistics\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1080\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2015/08/GoogleWorkers201207121920.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-10638229\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2015/08/GoogleWorkers201207121920.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2015/08/GoogleWorkers201207121920-400x225.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2015/08/GoogleWorkers201207121920-800x450.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2015/08/GoogleWorkers201207121920-1440x810.jpg 1440w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2015/08/GoogleWorkers201207121920-1180x664.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2015/08/GoogleWorkers201207121920-960x540.jpg 960w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Google employees walk around campus on Aug. 10, 2015. (David Paul Morris/Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Margaret O’Mara, a historian and author of \u003cem>The Code: Silicon Valley and the Remaking of America\u003c/em>, said that disparity has deep roots. Silicon Valley companies gave their white-collar workers incentives to negotiate with management directly, rather than at the bargaining table. And at the same time, Silicon Valley companies developed aggressive strategies for keeping their workplaces union-free. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>While U.S. union membership \u003ca href=\"https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/labor-unions-and-the-us-economy\">peaked\u003c/a> around 1950 — with over 30% of the American workforce carrying a union card at the time — O’Mara said that the management in the Valley was “pretty strongly anti-union.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“From Hewlett-Packard forward, there was an idea that if you had a union in your company, that was a sign that management was doing it wrong,” O’Mara said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Founded in 1939, Hewlett-Packard pioneered some of the systems that keep tech employees aligned with their management even today, O’Mara said, such as stock options. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\u003cp>While stock options, the ability to buy shares of the company at a reduced price, had long been an option for management, HP opened them up and turned them into “a way to deliver employee benefits that was kind of different from the way a standardized, unionized shop would work,” O’Mara said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The relationship between employers and workers was different on the factory floor.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>David Bacon, a former engineering technician and union organizer at National Semiconductor, said that the companies were “laboratories for keeping themselves union-free.”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“They did this by a number of means,” Bacon said, “for instance, ensuring that the production workforce in the semiconductor plants [was] made up of immigrants and a huge majority of women,” who managers could intimidate because they were more “vulnerable.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Bacon also said he and other union organizers were fired and blacklisted.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The result was a workplace culture in which unionization could seem unnecessary, or even antithetical to the work, for some and dangerous for others. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Carroll said that talking to his coworkers about unionizing today often involves a lot of education. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>He often has to explain to them, he said, that “it would be illegal for the companies to retaliate or discriminate against us for [organizing around working conditions].”\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">The future of AI workers?\u003c/h2>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>As organizers like Carroll, Bernick and Samburov push for unionization, some experts question whether the current wave of AI and political anxiety will translate into meaningful union drives.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Lenny Siegel, former mayor of Mountain View and a longtime activist, said that he does not believe AI alone will push tech workers to unionize. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>Unless the AI bubble pops, Siegel said he is “not expecting people [in Silicon Valley] to have trouble negotiating individually for bread and butter issues.” Without the need to collectively bargain, unionization is unlikely — especially given the \u003ca href=\"https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/trump-says-skilled-foreign-workers-take-jobs-away-from-americans-its-not-that-simple-experts-say\">high concentration\u003c/a> of tech employees on H1B visas who risk losing everything if their company decides to retaliate. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1379\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/12/DonaldTrumpGetty1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-12066914\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/12/DonaldTrumpGetty1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/12/DonaldTrumpGetty1-160x110.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/12/DonaldTrumpGetty1-1536x1059.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" />\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">U.S. President Donald Trump displays a signed executive order in the Oval Office of the White House on Dec. 11, 2025, in Washington, D.C. The executive order curbs states’ ability to regulate artificial intelligence, something for which the tech industry has been lobbying. (Alex Wong/Getty Images)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>While Siegel does not believe he’ll see software engineers on the picket line anytime soon, he agrees that organizing around political issues will continue.\u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“There have always been progressive tech workers in the Valley,” Siegel said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>In the ’90s, Siegel belonged to a group called Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility, which he described as a “collection of tech professionals who got together and effectively, because of their expertise, had an impact on policy.” \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>The group formed in \u003ca href=\"http://cpsr.org/about/history/\">1981\u003c/a> and opposed the use of computing technology for military applications, including the \u003ca href=\"http://cpsr.org/prevsite/publications/newsletters/old/1980s/Fall1986.txt/\">Strategic Computing Initiative,\u003c/a> an early artificial intelligence project funded by the Department of Defense. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>While political engagement among techies may not be new, Carroll said building power within the workplace helps give workers the security they need to speak out. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“We need to feel like our jobs are safe in order to feel comfortable working on and talking about some of these other issues,” Carroll said. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>For Carroll, the effort to build solidarity with his coworkers and colleagues across the industry has been worth it, even if it moves slowly. \u003c/p>\n\n\n\n\u003cp>“Labor organizing and trying to directly create power against the people at the top that are making a lot of the decisions is one of the most impactful things that we can be doing,” Carroll said.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"order": 9
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"id": "fresh-air",
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"tagline": "Where conversation and cultura meet",
"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
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"title": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown",
"tagline": "Lessons from a lifetime in politics",
"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game – and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
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"order": 18
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"info": "Latino USA, the radio journal of news and culture, is the only national, English-language radio program produced from a Latino perspective.",
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"marketplace": {
"id": "marketplace",
"title": "Marketplace",
"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 4pm-4:30pm, MON-WED 6:30pm-7pm",
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"source": "American Public Media"
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"masters-of-scale": {
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"title": "Masters of Scale",
"info": "Masters of Scale is an original podcast in which LinkedIn co-founder and Greylock Partner Reid Hoffman sets out to describe and prove theories that explain how great entrepreneurs take their companies from zero to a gazillion in ingenious fashion.",
"airtime": "Every other Wednesday June 12 through October 16 at 8pm (repeats Thursdays at 2am)",
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"rss": "https://rss.art19.com/masters-of-scale"
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},
"mindshift": {
"id": "mindshift",
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"tagline": "A podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids",
"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
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"meta": {
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"order": 12
},
"link": "/podcasts/mindshift",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5",
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"morning-edition": {
"id": "morning-edition",
"title": "Morning Edition",
"info": "\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. Hosts Steve Inskeep, David Greene and Rachel Martin bring you the latest breaking news and features to prepare you for the day.",
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"onourwatch": {
"id": "onourwatch",
"title": "On Our Watch",
"tagline": "Deeply-reported investigative journalism",
"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/On-Our-Watch-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"order": 11
},
"link": "/podcasts/onourwatch",
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},
"on-the-media": {
"id": "on-the-media",
"title": "On The Media",
"info": "Our weekly podcast explores how the media 'sausage' is made, casts an incisive eye on fluctuations in the marketplace of ideas, and examines threats to the freedom of information and expression in America and abroad. For one hour a week, the show tries to lift the veil from the process of \"making media,\" especially news media, because it's through that lens that we see the world and the world sees us",
"airtime": "SUN 2pm-3pm, MON 12am-1am",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/onTheMedia.png",
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},
"link": "/radio/program/on-the-media",
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"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/On-the-Media-p69/",
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},
"pbs-newshour": {
"id": "pbs-newshour",
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"info": "Analysis, background reports and updates from the PBS NewsHour putting today's news in context.",
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"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/PBS-News-Hour-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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},
"link": "/radio/program/pbs-newshour",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/pbs-newshour-full-show/id394432287?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/PBS-NewsHour---Full-Show-p425698/",
"rss": "https://www.pbs.org/newshour/feeds/rss/podcasts/show"
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},
"perspectives": {
"id": "perspectives",
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"order": 14
},
"link": "/perspectives",
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"planet-money": {
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"info": "The economy explained. Imagine you could call up a friend and say, Meet me at the bar and tell me what's going on with the economy. Now imagine that's actually a fun evening.",
"airtime": "SUN 3pm-4pm",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/planetmoney.jpg",
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},
"link": "/radio/program/planet-money",
"subscribe": {
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/planet-money/id290783428?mt=2",
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510289/podcast.xml"
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},
"politicalbreakdown": {
"id": "politicalbreakdown",
"title": "Political Breakdown",
"tagline": "Politics from a personal perspective",
"info": "Political Breakdown is a new series that explores the political intersection of California and the nation. Each week hosts Scott Shafer and Marisa Lagos are joined with a new special guest to unpack politics -- with personality — and offer an insider’s glimpse at how politics happens.",
"airtime": "THU 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Political-Breakdown-2024-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"order": 5
},
"link": "/podcasts/politicalbreakdown",
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"amazon": "https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/e0c2d153-ad36-4c8d-901d-f1da6a724824/political-breakdown",
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"possible": {
"id": "possible",
"title": "Possible",
"info": "Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? Each episode also includes a short fiction story generated by advanced AI GPT-4, serving as a thought-provoking springboard to speculate how humanity could leverage technology for good.",
"airtime": "SUN 2pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Possible-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.possible.fm/",
"meta": {
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"source": "Possible"
},
"link": "/radio/program/possible",
"subscribe": {
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"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/730YpdUSNlMyPQwNnyjp4k"
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},
"pri-the-world": {
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