Deanna Hughes is one of roughly 30 tenants who are being forced from their homes at the Anchor Marina in Bethel Island after the county labeled the property a public nuisance, on Sunday, Feb 13, 2022. (Erin Baldassari/KQED)
Getting evicted can hinder a renter’s ability to find stable housing for years afterward. And the capacity to evict gives landlords a lot of power over their tenants.
In this episode of Sold Out, we explore when and why landlords decide to evict. We also look at how property ownership has shifted in recent years from largely small “mom and pop” landlords to an increasing number of investors and corporations — and what that means for tenants and our housing system.
ERIN BALDASSARI, HOST: It’s a warm fall day in Antioch, California, and Donna Ridge has spent the morning delivering eviction notices.
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ERIN: She’s the property manager for a local landlord, Kevin Davidson, and also one of his tenants. We gather around Donna’s small kitchen table.
(Sounds: Papers being shuffled)
DONNA RIDGE: Oh, you got some three-day-notices.
KEVIN DAVIDSON: Mm-hmm.
ERIN: Kevin owns around 100 apartments spread across 15 buildings in the San Francisco Bay Area. And California’s eviction moratorium had just expired about a month earlier.
(Sounds: The reporter, Erin, is talking to Donna and Kevin in person)
ERIN: How many do you have?
KEVIN: Total? I don’t know. I have three here.
DONNA: Can’t count that high.
KEVIN: You got three, right?
MOLLY SOLOMON, HOST: Kevin says that during the pandemic, about a third of his tenants stopped paying rent at one point or another.
DONNA: Some of these tenants are really good tenants. They didn’t deliberately get behind, but when they did, I mean, bills still have to be paid, you know?
(Music in)
MOLLY: Most tenants who fell behind received rent relief. But for some, it didn’t cover everything they owed.
KEVIN: They gotta start paying. Once rent relief has paid up their part, then they gotta pay their part and if they don’t pay, then …
DONNA: They get noticed.
KEVIN: They get a notice.
ERIN: Each tenant was struggling for a different reason. One guy told Donna he gave his rent money to his roommate, the leaseholder. But the leaseholder wasn’t paying rent.
DONNA: That’s not my problem. My problem is that you need to pay your rent, and you need to pay it on time like everybody else does. You know? That’s the way it works.
MOLLY: Another tenant stopped paying rent at the beginning of the pandemic. And while the state had given her the maximum amount of rent relief, she still owed more.
KEVIN: Now this woman here, we’ll probably have to end up evicting her.
MOLLY: Donna says the tenant had just started going back to work. But then her son ended up in the hospital. Understandably difficult, but by this point Donna had been trying to get her rent money for a year and a half.
DONNA: She’s got excuse after excuse. Basically, I think she bit off more than she could chew, is what it is. Now she says she doesn’t want to move at all, and I said, “Well, then you better start paying rent.”
ERIN: With the eviction notices delivered, Kevin has a decision to make. He could work out a deal and maybe come up with a payment plan so his tenants could catch up on missed rent. Or he could file an eviction lawsuit.
If he does file a lawsuit, his tenant could have as little as five days to find a new place to live — no easy task with rents that just keep rising.
KEVIN: It’s really a tight rental market right now, so these guys would be smart to pay their rent.
(Music out)
(Sold Out theme song begins.)
MOLLY: All landlords have the power to evict. But they don’t all wield that power in the same way.
We’ve learned it depends a lot on whothe landlord is — and that’schanging. Large corporations are scooping up more rental properties, and as they do, their relationship with tenants becomes less personal and more profit-driven.
I’m Molly Solomon.
ERIN: And I’m Erin Baldassari.
From KQED, you’re listening to Sold Out: Rethinking Housing in America. This season, we’re talking about evictions.
Coming up: The business of being a landlord — and when it pays to evict.
(Sold Out theme song ends.)
ERIN: To understand how landlords make decisions about evictions, it helps to know why they got into the business. When I asked Kevin, he said he sort of fell into it. He started working as a property manager to help pay his way through college.
(Sounds: Highways, cars driving nearby, street sounds)
KEVIN: So I kind of learned the business a little bit, and I saw the people that were the owners and they seem to be doing pretty good. So I figure that, you know, long term, this would be a good thing to do.
MOLLY: He bought his first rental property — a single-family home — around 40 years ago, while still holding down a day job at an oil refinery. A few years later, he bought a triplex.
KEVIN: And I had just gone from there. What happens is property goes up, you refinance it, buy another. Two properties go up, you refinance it and buy another.
MOLLY: Now, he doesn’t need a day job. And he’s not what you’d call a mom-and-pop landlord. He’s bigger than that — more of a mid-sized investor.
KEVIN: For the most part, my main investment is real estate.
ERIN: Why?
KEVIN: And it’s done well.
ERIN: Yeah. (Erin laughs.)
KEVIN: Yes, it’s done well.
ERIN: It’s not all profit, though. He says the maintenance, mortgages, property taxes and insurance cost about 65 to 70% of what he gets in rent. The rest he keeps.
KEVIN: So your profit margin’s somewhere around 30, 35%.
MOLLY: Most of Kevin’s properties are on the eastern edge of the Bay Area. They’re in low-income neighborhoods. Even if it seems counterintuitive, he says that’s where you get a bigger bang for your buck.
And studies back that up. Researchers from Princeton and MIT found that on average, landlords in low-income neighborhoods took homedouble the profit, compared to landlords in wealthy neighborhoods.
That’s because they have lower mortgages and property taxes. And despite living in worse neighborhoods, tenants pay about the same in rent.
(Music in)
ERIN: But Kevin’s business model of specializing in low-income neighborhoods doesn’t always work out — for him or his tenants.
He co-owns an RV park and marina in Bethel Island, a small town more than an hour’s drive from San Francisco. County officials there have labeled it a public nuisance. Officials say it was never properly permitted to begin with — even though people had been living there before Kevin and his business partner bought the place back in 2004.
MOLLY: The county and the owners reached a stalemate over how to bring the place up to code. So in November, the owners told the 30-or-so tenants they had to leave. But most had nowhere to go. They stayed and saw bad conditions get worse.
The electricity was cut off in late January, shared bathrooms boarded up and trash service stopped. A few weeks later, a fire broke out in one of the RVs, sending a woman to the hospital with severe burns. She had been using a propane heater to stay warm.
ERIN: The rents there are about as cheap as they get in the Bay Area, with people paying around $400 to $750 a month.
Deanna Hughes moved into a houseboat on the marina about a year ago. She says a lot of her neighbors survive on disability checks or social security.
DEANNA HUGHES: This is what they have, you know? Might not be the best place, but it’s a home. It’s a roof over their head. And where are they going to be when they don’t have this, you know? We have enough homeless people in the state of California, I think, without them adding to it.
ERIN: Kevin says he feels bad for the long-term tenants who have lived there for years. But he felt like the situation had just spiraled too far out of control. And, he and his partner are now in the process of selling the property. But first, they have to get everyone out.
(Music out)
MOLLY: Kevin typically tries to avoidevictions as much as possible. Because they’re expensive. Each time, he has to pay courts and legal services more than $500 in fees. It can cost even more if he has to hire a lawyer. He might go through that whole process only to end up working out a deal with the tenant at the courthouse.
KEVIN: You know, we don’t want them to leave. When they leave, they cost more money than it does if they just pay.
ERIN: I asked Kevin if he ever lowered someone’s rent, given the cost of evictions and turnover.
(Sounds: Highway, cars on the road, air whistling)
KEVIN: Well, I don’t really do that much because word gets around. And so if you do it for one person, then you got to start doing it for other people.
MOLLY: Usually, though, if one of his tenants is having trouble coming up with rent, it’s not Kevin they call, it’s his property manager, Donna.
ERIN: I met up with her one day while she was making the rounds at Kevin’s properties. It was 100 degrees outside, and Donna was sweating under the afternoon sun. But she was still out there raking up debris.
Donna does all kinds of odd jobs for Kevin. On this particular day, there was a duck — a dead duck.
DONNA: A dead duck? Oh, well, then let’s get that cleaned up then. Who would do that? That’s disgusting.
ERIN: She says there’s always something. As Donna repaired a fence, tenants driving by slowed down to wave or call out a quick hello. Others walked over to chat.
(Sounds: A drill being operated, highway sounds, wind whistling)
TENANT SPEAKING TO DONNA: Annabele, she’s starting to stand up by herself now.
DONNA: Oh, no, not already!
TENANT: So, she’s going to start walking.
ERIN: For Donna, being friendly with the tenants is easy.
DONNA: And a lot of them say, you know, you’re so great to work with. They’re all, because you understand things, because I’m a tenant, too.
MOLLY: In exchange for her work as property manager, Kevin pays Donna’s utility bills. He also bought the big white truck she drives around when she does maintenance on the properties. Those visits have another benefit, though — they help her keep tabs on folks who are behind on rent.
DONNA: You have your rent? You have your rent? She better have the rent. She owes last month’s, too. But see, we were working with her.
JILLIAN: I have it all. Just about.
DONNA: Good girl.
JILLIAN: I’ll be there.
DONNA: Get it all, girl. See ya later.
ERIN: Donna’s the buffer between Kevin and his tenants. She talks with them, tries to get a sense for why they’re behind, and she can help plead their case to Kevin.
DONNA: Well, they’ll call me, and then I’ll call him. And he’ll either say, OK, that’s OK. Or, yeah, we’ll wait. Or he won’t.
ERIN: I asked Kevin how he felt about serving evictions, knowing that an eviction judgment on your record makes it really hard to find another place to live.
KEVIN: Well, I don’t like it. That’s why I talk to them. That’s why I try to set up payment plans. That’s why we give them every opportunity to pay. But if they don’t, then they can’t live there for free. So we go through with the eviction.
MOLLY: Kevin’s approach to evictions is pretty common. Philip Garboden researches landlord behavior at the University of Hawaii.
PHILIP GARBODEN: Sometimes I feel like the sort of public discussion of eviction assumes that landlords love evicting tenants, right? But almost every landlord we talked to felt that actually evicting a tenant was a business failure and a significant business cost.
MOLLY: Most landlords who start the eviction process don’t actually follow through. In a review of over 150,000 eviction notices in Baltimore, just under 5% resulted in a court-ordered eviction where a tenant was forced out.
Phillip says even if tenants do end up staying, most landlords see real benefits from filing that first notice. Because it helps them collect rent.
PHILIP: The goal of the eviction is to — what one landlord called the “first shot over the bow” — to show that tenant that if they don’t pay, there’s going to be severe consequences and those consequences are going to be backed up by the legal system. And those consequences will be lasting.
ERIN: And there are other benefits for landlords.
PHILIP: Many of our landlords explained to us that by filing, they recognize that a tenant is less likely to complain about property issues, right? Is much less likely to, you know, report a landlord.
(Music in)
ERIN: When you owe someone money, it changes your relationship. You’re probably going to try to avoid them as much as possible. And if that person is your landlord, there’s an added layer of anxiety because your housing’s on the line.
PHILIP: And now all of a sudden you have a relationship where in order for that family to stay stably housed, they need to pay back their debt to a landlord. And the way that we treat people to whom we owe money is a fundamentally different social relationship, has fundamentally different power dynamics, than the way we treat people who we buy or rent things from.
MOLLY: Philip says eviction notices help landlords flex their power over their tenants. But that power imbalance is established much earlier, during the tenant-screening process.
PHILIP: Landlords have all the power to sort of give access to families or to deny access to families.
(Music out)
MOLLY: In Kevin’s case, that screening process starts with Donna. She’s in charge of posting his apartments on Craigslist and sorting through applications.
DONNA: We ask that they make double the rent, and they have the means to be able to support their children, like if the emergency happened, if they fell and broke an arm or leg or whatever, that they could handle that and the rent still, you know?
ERIN: She says there’s one red flag they always look for.
DONNA: Mainly, no evictions.
ERIN: They make a few exceptions but most of the time, they pass. Because whatever the reason, it could happen again, and they don’t want to take that chance.
MOLLY: Philip says that’s the way a lot of landlords operate. And it makes sense: They want tenants who will pay rent on time. All this to say, if you have past evictions, a low income, bad credit, or kids, it can be very hard to find a landlord willing to rent you a home.
(Music in)
PHILIP: That becomes much more of this relationship of, you’re applying for admission, right? And the fewer resources, the lower income, the more income volatility that a particular family experiences, the stronger that power dynamic is.
ERIN: This power imbalance between landlords and tenants, it’s nothing new. But in some cases, it’s growing.
Coming up: What to expect when your landlord is a corporation.
(Music out)
(Sounds: Game pieces being thrown onto a game board, shuffling of objects)
ERIKA KELLY, EDITOR: So everybody gets how much money? $1,500? I can’t remember what we start with.
ERIN: I can’t remember what we start with.
MOLLY: Oh, wow, I didn’t even know we started with that much. (Molly laughs.)
ERIKA: Yeah, you gotta be able to pay rent, you gotta be able to buy stuff.
MOLLY: That’s our editor, Erika Kelly. We all got together the other day for a game we all played as kids. You can probably guess what it is.
MONOPOLY COMMERCIAL CIRCA 1981: To make it big, you’ve got to play the game. I’m Monopoly Game.
ERIN: For everyone who’s played Monopoly, you know the point of the game: Buy up all the properties and get as rich as possible.
ERIKA: Yeah, you want to bankrupt everybody else. If you don’t buy stuff, there’s no way to make money.
It was pretty clear who was dominating the game.
MOLLY: There’s not even even any $100 bills left in here.
ERIN: I know, because Erika has them all.
ERIKA: They are all over here.
(All three players laugh.)
(Music in)
MOLLY: But this version of the game we all know, that’s not the way the game was intendedto be played.
The original concept came from a woman named Lizzie Magie. Her version of the game came out in 1903, a time when a lot of people really struggled to pay rent. And she wanted the game to be a cautionary tale. Not to glorify capitalism, but steer people awayfrom it. She called it: The Landlord’s Game.
(Music out)
ERIN: In Magie’s version of the game, there were two ways to play: the version we know today, and one where everyone shared the profit. In real life, there are also different ways for landlords to play. Some just want a steady income. But increasingly, others are out to own the whole board.
MOLLY: Up until the late ‘80s, the vast majority of landlords owned fewer than five units — you know, mom and pops. That began to change as more midsized players, like Kevin, got into the game. And corporationsbegan buying more and more apartment buildings. Companies now own at least two-thirds of all apartment buildings nationwide.
ERIN: And it’s not just apartments. According to the Census Bureau, nearly3 million single-family homes are now owned by LLCs, LLPs or LPs — shell companies that mask the identity of the true owner. And each one of those houses has a tenant who pays rent.
MOLLY: Neal Dennis III was one of those tenants. He’s a former security guard and a father of seven. In 2015, he and his family moved into a new home in Antioch. Two years later, Neal wasn’t getting as many hours at work, and bills began piling up. He and his wife had to make a choice.
NEAL DENNIS III: You know PG&E was going up in the house. Water, garbage, you know, all that adds up so when you’re trying to divvy it out to everybody, somebody is going to get cut short sometimes. We need water, we need PG&E. Well, rent is going to be a little short this month.
ERIN: For the first time, Neal was late paying rent. His landlord was Waypoint Homes. At the time, Neal had no idea the company owned more than 23,000 homes across four states. When he fell behind, no one offered to get him on a payment plan. Instead …
NEAL: I think they filed within a week.
ERIN: After not paying?
NEAL: After not paying.
ERIN: Wow, that’s so quick.
NEAL: You know, it was quick.
ERIN: Did anyone call you ahead of time?
NEAL: No, we just got a letter in the mail, you know, and a letter on the door.
ERIN: Neal couldn’t afford a lawyer who might’ve worked out a deal. So, he and his wife agreed to pay the back rent, and then packed up to leave.
MOLLY: We tried to track down Waypoint for comment, but the company no longer exists.
Just a few months after Neal and his family were evicted, it was swallowed up in a string of consolidations by larger and larger players, eventually merging with Invitation Homes — the country’s largest owner of single-family rentals. Today, they own more than 81,000 across 12 states.
ERIN: Their rapid growth is emblematic of a big shift towards corporate landlords. Millions of families lost their homes to foreclosure during the 2008 housing bust. And many of them became renters. New corporate landlords took advantage of dirt-cheap prices, buying up homes by the thousands.
Desiree Fields is a professor of geography and urban studies at the University of California in Berkeley.
(Music in)
DESIREE FIELDS: And it is this huge loss of wealth at the household level that is what enables these players to get their start. So there’s something important there, right? This, like, very direct transfer of wealth from Main Street to Wall Street.
ERIN: Invitation Homes was founded in 2012 by Blackstone — one of the biggest private equity firms in the world. Invitation Homes CEO Dallas Tanner recently told the podcast RealWealth the fact that the company owns so many homes is a good thing.
DALLAS TANNER ON REALWEALTH SHOW: We can drive down the costs because of our economies of scale in terms of how we, you know, fit and finish your home, offer upgraded standards within a home, whether it’s kitchens, countertops, master bathrooms, whatever. And the law of large numbers really helps us create a better product at a more affordable price.
MOLLY: Those cost savings don’t appear to be passed on to tenants. Instead, they go to investors as profits. Invitation Homes increased rents last year by an average of 9%.
That translated into more than $260 million in profits paid out to shareholders.The company capitalized on increased demand for single-family rentals during the pandemic. And they continued to buy up more homes, even amid sky-high prices.
DESIREE: They can kind of outcompete would-be-owner occupiers. And that, in turn, just kind of shunts people back into the rental market and increases demand for essentially the products the invitation homes is renting out.
(Music out)
ERIN: Despite its financial success, the company has recently come under fire, and a big part of that has to do with evictions.
MOLLY: Invitation Homes wouldn’t agree to a recorded interview, but they said in a statement they’ve been trying to work with tenants during the pandemic, even signing up hundreds for rent relief.
But when it comes to its eviction practices, Invitation Homes isn’t that different from other big corporations. Studies have shown corporate landlords are more likely to evict than smaller landlords, even two to three times more likely, according to one study out of Princeton.
Again, here’s University of Hawaii researcher Philip Garboden.
PHILIP: There’s big differences in how landlords do eviction, based on who that landlord is. The large corporate entities are much more likely to file quickly and a lot.
ERIN: Philip says that’s partly because those decisions are standardized. And they’re not made by property managers like Donna. Notices go out automatically. It’s a process that doesn’t usually leave tenants much leeway to work out a deal.
PHILIP: Warnings go out on the fifth of the month to all tenants who are late. Then by the seventh or ninth of the month there’s an official filing process.
ERIN: Corporate landlords are under extreme pressure to increase their profits. And Desiree Fields says they have other kinds of demands.
DESIREE: They have imperatives to pay dividends to, you know, to their investors, to shareholders. They have large amounts of debt that they need to pay down.
MOLLY: Corporate landlords typically charge more fees for things like late rent, pets, pest control and parking. And while smaller landlords typically cover maintenance, corporate landlords are increasingly sticking tenants with those bills.
DESIREE: So we see them increasing rents, but we also see them in general trying to squeeze the asset any way they can. So we see things like piling on lots of extra fees as a way of generating revenue.
(Music in)
ERIN: After Neal Dennis III and his family were evicted, they did end up finding another place to live. It’s a small blue house with white trim, not far from where they were before. They’re coming up on five years in the house. And this time, Neal’s home is owned by a small landlord who lives in the area. He says the interactions are a lot more forgiving.
NEAL: Look, if I’m going to be late, I’ll give him a call let him know, “Hey, I need until this time.” “No problem.” “I’ll have it in your account at this certain time.” “No problem.” Never no notice on my door.
MOLLY: In a lot of ways, what small landlords are looking for in tenants is pretty similar to what tenants want from their landlords: stability. Most have day jobs. They manage the properties themselves, and they don’t want a lot of extra work. So they tend to charge their tenants less, because they want to hold onto them and reduce turnover.
DESIREE: They’re looking for, you know, their rent checks to flow in as a supplement to their income.
(Music out)
ERIN: But there are downsides to having a smaller landlord. Philip Garboden says a closer personal relationship with tenants can also lead to more friction.
PHILIP: When they feel a tenant is hiding from them or when they feel for whatever reason a tenant isn’t trying their hardest to pay the rent, things can go south in a hurry sort of emotionally.
ERIN: And that can influence their decision to evict.
PHILIP: Small owners can be so frustrated that maybe they will go and execute an eviction, even if it’s not profitable for them.
ERIN: There’s also evidence that small landlords tend to rely on gut feelings, which can lead to all kinds of discrimination.
PHILIP: So there are trade-offs involved.
(Music)
MOLLY: But big or small, all landlords hold a lot of power.
DESIREE: So just by virtue of, you know, having the resources to, you know, to purchase a property and own it, landlords are able to charge tenants for access to something that’s a fundamental human need, right?
MOLLY: And she says that points to a larger, systemic problem.
DESIREE: We treat housing as a market commodity.
MOLLY: It’s something to be bought and sold, to make money off of.
ERIN: And, Desiree says you can hate certain players, especially the ones who are trying to squeeze every last penny from their tenants. But, it’s the game that’s rigged. Big corporations are just taking it to its logical end, by trying to make the most money possible.
DESIREE: I do think that’s incompatible with the idea of having housing that is meaningfully affordable, but also to a system where people feel like they have like some power and control over, like, their basic living conditions and, you know, the kinds of choices they’re able to make about their housing.
MOLLY: Owning property has been the main way for middle-class people to build wealth in this country. And, for people who’ve been able to buy into that system, it’s worked really well.
But as rents continue to rise, and more peoplebecome renters, property ownership is increasingly benefiting a smaller group.
ERIN: Which raises the question: Is the system we’ve got the one we want?
And is it time to check some of that power and profits, to make sure we all have a place to live?
(Music out)
(Sold Out theme song begins.)
MOLLY: Coming up on Sold Out: fighting evictions in the courts.
How activists across the country are leveling the playing field between landlords and tenants.
D.J. CRINER: Are you going to hold landlords just as accountable as landlords think they’re holding residents? Are you going to give individuals an opportunity to have legal aid?
JOHN POLLOCK: These are very serious proceedings on par with criminal ones in terms of the consequences.
RANDY DILLARD: No tenant should have to stand before a judge and not know their rights.
MOLLY: I’m Molly Solomon.
ERIN: And I’m Erin Baldassari. You’ve been listening to Sold Out: Rethinking Housing in America.
If you like what you hear, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts — it really helps us share the show.
MOLLY: Sold Out is a production of KQED. This episode was written and reported by us, Molly Solomon and Erin Baldassari.
Adhiti Bandlamudi produced this episode. Kyana Moghadam is our senior producer. Brendan Willard is our sound engineer. Rob Speight wrote our theme song.
ERIN: Natalia Aldana is our senior engagement producer and Gerald Fermin is our engagement intern.
Thanks to our editor, Erika Kelly. Additional editing from Jessica Placzek and Otis Taylor Jr.
We couldn’t have made this season without Ethan Toven-Lindsey, Holly Kernan, Erika Aguilar and Vinnee Tong.
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MOLLY: Thanks for listening. We’ll see you next week!
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Born and raised in Berkeley, Molly is a big fan of burritos and her scruffy terrier, Ollie.","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/9ad9794616923d81c9a79897161545bd?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":"solomonout","facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"news","roles":["editor"]},{"site":"science","roles":["editor"]}],"headData":{"title":"Molly Solomon | KQED","description":"Senior Editor","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/9ad9794616923d81c9a79897161545bd?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/9ad9794616923d81c9a79897161545bd?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/msolomon"},"ebaldassari":{"type":"authors","id":"11652","meta":{"index":"authors_1591205172","id":"11652","found":true},"name":"Erin Baldassari","firstName":"Erin","lastName":"Baldassari","slug":"ebaldassari","email":"ebaldassari@KQED.org","display_author_email":true,"staff_mastheads":["news"],"title":"Staff Writer","bio":"Erin Baldassari covers housing for KQED. She's a former print journalist and most recently worked as the transportation reporter for the \u003cem>Mercury News\u003c/em> and \u003cem>East Bay Times. \u003c/em>There, she focused on how the Bay Area’s housing shortage has changed the way people move around the region. She also served on the \u003cem>East Bay Times\u003c/em>’ 2017 Pulitzer Prize-winning team for coverage of the Ghost Ship Fire in Oakland. Prior to that, Erin worked as a breaking news and general assignment reporter for a variety of outlets in the Bay Area and the greater Boston area. A Tufts University alumna, Erin grew up in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada mountains and in Sonoma County. She is a life-long KQED listener.","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/660ce35d088ca54ad606d7e941abc652?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":"e_baldi","facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"news","roles":["author","edit_others_posts"]},{"site":"science","roles":["editor"]}],"headData":{"title":"Erin Baldassari | KQED","description":"Staff Writer","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/660ce35d088ca54ad606d7e941abc652?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/660ce35d088ca54ad606d7e941abc652?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/ebaldassari"}},"breakingNewsReducer":{},"campaignFinanceReducer":{},"firebase":{"requesting":{},"requested":{},"timestamps":{},"data":{},"ordered":{},"auth":{"isLoaded":false,"isEmpty":true},"authError":null,"profile":{"isLoaded":false,"isEmpty":true},"listeners":{"byId":{},"allIds":[]},"isInitializing":false,"errors":[]},"navBarReducer":{"navBarId":"news","fullView":true,"showPlayer":false},"navMenuReducer":{"menus":[{"key":"menu1","items":[{"name":"News","link":"/","type":"title"},{"name":"Politics","link":"/politics"},{"name":"Science","link":"/science"},{"name":"Education","link":"/educationnews"},{"name":"Housing","link":"/housing"},{"name":"Immigration","link":"/immigration"},{"name":"Criminal Justice","link":"/criminaljustice"},{"name":"Silicon Valley","link":"/siliconvalley"},{"name":"Forum","link":"/forum"},{"name":"The California Report","link":"/californiareport"}]},{"key":"menu2","items":[{"name":"Arts & Culture","link":"/arts","type":"title"},{"name":"Critics’ Picks","link":"/thedolist"},{"name":"Cultural Commentary","link":"/artscommentary"},{"name":"Food & Drink","link":"/food"},{"name":"Bay Area Hip-Hop","link":"/bayareahiphop"},{"name":"Rebel Girls","link":"/rebelgirls"},{"name":"Arts Video","link":"/artsvideos"}]},{"key":"menu3","items":[{"name":"Podcasts","link":"/podcasts","type":"title"},{"name":"Bay Curious","link":"/podcasts/baycurious"},{"name":"Rightnowish","link":"/podcasts/rightnowish"},{"name":"The Bay","link":"/podcasts/thebay"},{"name":"On Our Watch","link":"/podcasts/onourwatch"},{"name":"Mindshift","link":"/podcasts/mindshift"},{"name":"Consider This","link":"/podcasts/considerthis"},{"name":"Political Breakdown","link":"/podcasts/politicalbreakdown"}]},{"key":"menu4","items":[{"name":"Live Radio","link":"/radio","type":"title"},{"name":"TV","link":"/tv","type":"title"},{"name":"Events","link":"/events","type":"title"},{"name":"For Educators","link":"/education","type":"title"},{"name":"Support KQED","link":"/support","type":"title"},{"name":"About","link":"/about","type":"title"},{"name":"Help Center","link":"https://kqed-helpcenter.kqed.org/s","type":"title"}]}]},"pagesReducer":{},"postsReducer":{"stream_live":{"type":"live","id":"stream_live","audioUrl":"https://streams.kqed.org/kqedradio","title":"Live Stream","excerpt":"Live Stream information currently unavailable.","link":"/radio","featImg":"","label":{"name":"KQED Live","link":"/"}},"stream_kqedNewscast":{"type":"posts","id":"stream_kqedNewscast","audioUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/RDnews/newscast.mp3?_=1","title":"KQED Newscast","featImg":"","label":{"name":"88.5 FM","link":"/"}},"news_11983846":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983846","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983846","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"state-prisons-offset-new-inmate-wage-hikes-by-cutting-hours-for-some-workers","title":"State Prisons Offset New Inmate Wage Hikes by Cutting Hours for Some Workers","publishDate":1713909559,"format":"standard","headTitle":"State Prisons Offset New Inmate Wage Hikes by Cutting Hours for Some Workers | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>California prison officials recently boosted wages for tens of thousands of incarcerated workers. Most, however, will still make less than $1 per hour, and many may not see an increase in total earnings because their hours will be cut.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pay rates now generally range from $0.16 to $0.74 per hour, depending on skill levels, double the previous decades-old rate, according to \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/regulations/wp-content/uploads/sites/171/2024/04/Inmate-Pay_Approval.pdf\">new regulations\u003c/a> that went into effect on April 16.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The increase is intended to incentivize incarcerated people to take jobs for their own rehabilitation, said the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, which also eliminated all unpaid job assignments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“New wages will also help workers meet restitution payments for crime victims and save more money in preparation for release,” Tessa Outhyse, a CDCR spokesperson, said in a statement. “In addition to a paycheck, work assignments build technical and social skills, instill accountability and responsibility, and prepare incarcerated people for careers after release.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nearly 39,000 incarcerated people have job assignments in state prisons, doing everything from construction and maintenance to custodial and food services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>About 1,200 incarcerated firefighters, who are on a separate pay scale, will also now make anywhere from $5.80 to $10.24 a day, a significant increase over the previous daily range of $2.90 to $5.13. Cal Fire also pays an additional $1 per hour for crews battling active fires.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"more on California prisons\" tag=\"cdcr\"]However, an overall pay increase may not materialize for many incarcerated workers. Outhyse confirmed that as CDCR boosts wages, it also plans to reduce up to three-quarters of its full-time job offerings to half-time — although it said it is “not conducting a wholesale reduction.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“CDCR is exploring the introduction of some flexibility in this area to accommodate institution budget requirements as well as the possibility of increasing inmates’ flexibility to participate in rehabilitative program assignments,” the agency wrote in response to public comment concerns.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prisoner rights advocates \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967728/california-prison-officials-aim-to-raise-hourly-minimum-wage-to-at-least-16-cents\">pushed for a much higher pay increase\u003c/a>, one closer to California’s minimum wage of $16 an hour, without reductions in full-time jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jacob Hutt, an attorney with the Prison Law Office, said the new wages are not setting up people in custody to succeed when released.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“By paying people a slave wage right now, they are all but ensuring that people are going to end up in poverty once they leave custody,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In addition, CDCR often \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/family-resources/send-money/\">deducts up to 55%\u003c/a> of an incarcerated workers’ wages for administrative costs and restitution fees for crime victims, Hutt added, further reducing their net pay and ability to purchase canteen items.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Even when you don’t consider the fact that so many of these workers are actually not going to receive any pay increase because they’re being forced from full-time to half-time, the minimum pay raise is just so ridiculously low,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Starting this month, pay rates will now generally range from $0.16 to $0.74 per hour, double the previous decades-old rate. But many full-time jobs will be cut to half-time.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713910120,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":15,"wordCount":503},"headData":{"title":"State Prisons Offset New Inmate Wage Hikes by Cutting Hours for Some Workers | KQED","description":"Starting this month, pay rates will now generally range from $0.16 to $0.74 per hour, double the previous decades-old rate. But many full-time jobs will be cut to half-time.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"State Prisons Offset New Inmate Wage Hikes by Cutting Hours for Some Workers","datePublished":"2024-04-23T21:59:19.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-23T22:08:40.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"WpOldSlug":"state-prisons-offset-new-inmate-wage-hikes-by-cutting-hours-for-workers","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983846/state-prisons-offset-new-inmate-wage-hikes-by-cutting-hours-for-some-workers","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>California prison officials recently boosted wages for tens of thousands of incarcerated workers. Most, however, will still make less than $1 per hour, and many may not see an increase in total earnings because their hours will be cut.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pay rates now generally range from $0.16 to $0.74 per hour, depending on skill levels, double the previous decades-old rate, according to \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/regulations/wp-content/uploads/sites/171/2024/04/Inmate-Pay_Approval.pdf\">new regulations\u003c/a> that went into effect on April 16.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The increase is intended to incentivize incarcerated people to take jobs for their own rehabilitation, said the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, which also eliminated all unpaid job assignments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“New wages will also help workers meet restitution payments for crime victims and save more money in preparation for release,” Tessa Outhyse, a CDCR spokesperson, said in a statement. “In addition to a paycheck, work assignments build technical and social skills, instill accountability and responsibility, and prepare incarcerated people for careers after release.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nearly 39,000 incarcerated people have job assignments in state prisons, doing everything from construction and maintenance to custodial and food services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>About 1,200 incarcerated firefighters, who are on a separate pay scale, will also now make anywhere from $5.80 to $10.24 a day, a significant increase over the previous daily range of $2.90 to $5.13. Cal Fire also pays an additional $1 per hour for crews battling active fires.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"label":"more on California prisons ","tag":"cdcr"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>However, an overall pay increase may not materialize for many incarcerated workers. Outhyse confirmed that as CDCR boosts wages, it also plans to reduce up to three-quarters of its full-time job offerings to half-time — although it said it is “not conducting a wholesale reduction.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“CDCR is exploring the introduction of some flexibility in this area to accommodate institution budget requirements as well as the possibility of increasing inmates’ flexibility to participate in rehabilitative program assignments,” the agency wrote in response to public comment concerns.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Prisoner rights advocates \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967728/california-prison-officials-aim-to-raise-hourly-minimum-wage-to-at-least-16-cents\">pushed for a much higher pay increase\u003c/a>, one closer to California’s minimum wage of $16 an hour, without reductions in full-time jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jacob Hutt, an attorney with the Prison Law Office, said the new wages are not setting up people in custody to succeed when released.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“By paying people a slave wage right now, they are all but ensuring that people are going to end up in poverty once they leave custody,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In addition, CDCR often \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/family-resources/send-money/\">deducts up to 55%\u003c/a> of an incarcerated workers’ wages for administrative costs and restitution fees for crime victims, Hutt added, further reducing their net pay and ability to purchase canteen items.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Even when you don’t consider the fact that so many of these workers are actually not going to receive any pay increase because they’re being forced from full-time to half-time, the minimum pay raise is just so ridiculously low,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983846/state-prisons-offset-new-inmate-wage-hikes-by-cutting-hours-for-some-workers","authors":["8659"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_26658","news_616","news_1629","news_17725","news_27626"],"featImg":"news_11983401","label":"news"},"news_11983768":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983768","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983768","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"cecil-williams-legendary-pastor-of-glide-church-dies-at-94","title":"Cecil Williams, Legendary Pastor of Glide Church, Dies at 94","publishDate":1713837137,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Cecil Williams, Legendary Pastor of Glide Church, Dies at 94 | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>Rev. Cecil Williams, the beloved social justice activist and longtime pastor of San Francisco’s Glide Memorial Church, died Monday at the age of 94.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Williams is best known for his stewardship of the Tenderloin neighborhood church that he became pastor of in 1963 and helped develop into a world-renowned congregation and social service nonprofit. As its leader, Williams built and oversaw multiple community outreach programs that have offered crucial support to hundreds of thousands of impoverished residents in the city over the last six decades.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Chief among those initiatives is the Free Meals Program. Launched in 1980, the program provides three free hot meals a day to anyone in need, dishing out hundreds of thousands of meals each year.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Willliams also became known for his welcoming approach to the LGBT community and his unflinching support of civil rights.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“One very special thing about Cecil was that he met everyone where they were — literally and spiritually,” said Oakland resident Ernestine Nettles, who has volunteered at Glide for over 50 years, and first met Williams when she was a child. “If you couldn’t make it to the church to get a Thanksgiving meal, volunteers packed them up and brought them out to the streets, handing them out to everyone.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nettles noted that Williams “embodied the spirit of Christianity” in not passing judgment and loving people as they are. She said he treated everyone as equals, no matter their race, age, background, economic status, sexuality, past, or present.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He is a true example of not only a Christian, but an American,” said Nettles, recalling how Williams championed a range of local and national social justice causes, and even once came to her Oakland high school to help her campaign to allow girls to wear pants. “He was a drum major for justice.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"related coverage\" tag=\"cecil-williams\"]The grandson of a slave, Albert Cecil Williams was born Sept. 22, 1929, and raised in the segregated West Texas town of San Angelo. He was one of six children.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After moving to San Francisco, Williams helped revive Glide with Janice Mirikitani, who later became his wife. Mirikitani \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11883109/janice-mirikitani-glide-co-founder-and-sf-poet-laureate-dies\">died in 2021\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With the addition of a chorus and a band, Williams’ church soon began hosting spirited, celebratory Sunday services that attracted a diverse swath of parishioners.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although he retired as the church’s pastor in 2000, he retained his roles as the Minister of Liberation and CEO of \u003ca href=\"https://www.glide.org/\">the GLIDE Foundation\u003c/a> — organization that now has a more than $20 million budget and thousands of members — until last year, when \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/rev-cecil-williams-glide-steps-down-17799046.php\">he officially stepped down\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Randy Shaw, the director of the Tenderloin Housing Clinic, who wrote a book on the history of the neighborhood, said Williams’ leadership of the church was transformative. Many people, he said, don’t realize that when Williams was hired to lead Glide, the congregation was almost down to the single digits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He chose a remarkably unsurprising strategy to rebuild the congregation. He decided to be a fierce advocate for social justice and civil rights. And most controversial for the time, he became an outspoken advocate for lesbian and gay and transgender rights” at a time when San Francisco Police were arresting gay and lesbian people for being in bars, Shaw said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In turning Glide into a major deliverer of social services, Williams became a prolific fundraiser and powerful booster, garnering the support of celebrities and major influencers, the likes of Oprah Winfrey, Bill Clinton, Bono and Warren Buffet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Cecil was able to make financial connections to donors that no one else in the Tenderloin, and maybe even in San Francisco, could make,” he said. “He was the fiery minister who was urging people to get involved in stuff and fighting for justice and not mincing words about things.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a statement, Mayor London Breed called Williams “the conscience of our San Francisco community.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He spoke out against injustice and he spoke for the marginalized,” she said. “He led with compassion and wisdom, always putting the people first and never relenting in his pursuit of justice and equality. His kindness brought people together and his vision changed our City and the world.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Breed also noted how Williams championed the idea of supportive housing and “wraparound” services for those in need.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As a young girl, I would never have dreamed I’d grow up to work with him,” she said. “We all benefited from his guidance, his support, and his moral compass. We would not be who we are as a city and a people without the legendary Cecil Williams.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This article includes reporting from KQED’s Matthew Green, Alex Gonzalez, and Bay City News.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Williams became pastor of Glide in 1963, where he helped build and oversee multiple community outreach programs and social service initiatives that have provided crucial support to hundreds of thousands of impoverished residents in the city over the last 6 decades.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713978737,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":22,"wordCount":818},"headData":{"title":"Cecil Williams, Legendary Pastor of Glide Church, Dies at 94 | KQED","description":"Williams became pastor of Glide in 1963, where he helped build and oversee multiple community outreach programs and social service initiatives that have provided crucial support to hundreds of thousands of impoverished residents in the city over the last 6 decades.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Cecil Williams, Legendary Pastor of Glide Church, Dies at 94","datePublished":"2024-04-23T01:52:17.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-24T17:12:17.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983768/cecil-williams-legendary-pastor-of-glide-church-dies-at-94","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Rev. Cecil Williams, the beloved social justice activist and longtime pastor of San Francisco’s Glide Memorial Church, died Monday at the age of 94.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Williams is best known for his stewardship of the Tenderloin neighborhood church that he became pastor of in 1963 and helped develop into a world-renowned congregation and social service nonprofit. As its leader, Williams built and oversaw multiple community outreach programs that have offered crucial support to hundreds of thousands of impoverished residents in the city over the last six decades.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Chief among those initiatives is the Free Meals Program. Launched in 1980, the program provides three free hot meals a day to anyone in need, dishing out hundreds of thousands of meals each year.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Willliams also became known for his welcoming approach to the LGBT community and his unflinching support of civil rights.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“One very special thing about Cecil was that he met everyone where they were — literally and spiritually,” said Oakland resident Ernestine Nettles, who has volunteered at Glide for over 50 years, and first met Williams when she was a child. “If you couldn’t make it to the church to get a Thanksgiving meal, volunteers packed them up and brought them out to the streets, handing them out to everyone.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nettles noted that Williams “embodied the spirit of Christianity” in not passing judgment and loving people as they are. She said he treated everyone as equals, no matter their race, age, background, economic status, sexuality, past, or present.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He is a true example of not only a Christian, but an American,” said Nettles, recalling how Williams championed a range of local and national social justice causes, and even once came to her Oakland high school to help her campaign to allow girls to wear pants. “He was a drum major for justice.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"label":"related coverage ","tag":"cecil-williams"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The grandson of a slave, Albert Cecil Williams was born Sept. 22, 1929, and raised in the segregated West Texas town of San Angelo. He was one of six children.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After moving to San Francisco, Williams helped revive Glide with Janice Mirikitani, who later became his wife. Mirikitani \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11883109/janice-mirikitani-glide-co-founder-and-sf-poet-laureate-dies\">died in 2021\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With the addition of a chorus and a band, Williams’ church soon began hosting spirited, celebratory Sunday services that attracted a diverse swath of parishioners.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although he retired as the church’s pastor in 2000, he retained his roles as the Minister of Liberation and CEO of \u003ca href=\"https://www.glide.org/\">the GLIDE Foundation\u003c/a> — organization that now has a more than $20 million budget and thousands of members — until last year, when \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/rev-cecil-williams-glide-steps-down-17799046.php\">he officially stepped down\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Randy Shaw, the director of the Tenderloin Housing Clinic, who wrote a book on the history of the neighborhood, said Williams’ leadership of the church was transformative. Many people, he said, don’t realize that when Williams was hired to lead Glide, the congregation was almost down to the single digits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He chose a remarkably unsurprising strategy to rebuild the congregation. He decided to be a fierce advocate for social justice and civil rights. And most controversial for the time, he became an outspoken advocate for lesbian and gay and transgender rights” at a time when San Francisco Police were arresting gay and lesbian people for being in bars, Shaw said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In turning Glide into a major deliverer of social services, Williams became a prolific fundraiser and powerful booster, garnering the support of celebrities and major influencers, the likes of Oprah Winfrey, Bill Clinton, Bono and Warren Buffet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Cecil was able to make financial connections to donors that no one else in the Tenderloin, and maybe even in San Francisco, could make,” he said. “He was the fiery minister who was urging people to get involved in stuff and fighting for justice and not mincing words about things.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a statement, Mayor London Breed called Williams “the conscience of our San Francisco community.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He spoke out against injustice and he spoke for the marginalized,” she said. “He led with compassion and wisdom, always putting the people first and never relenting in his pursuit of justice and equality. His kindness brought people together and his vision changed our City and the world.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Breed also noted how Williams championed the idea of supportive housing and “wraparound” services for those in need.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As a young girl, I would never have dreamed I’d grow up to work with him,” she said. “We all benefited from his guidance, his support, and his moral compass. We would not be who we are as a city and a people without the legendary Cecil Williams.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This article includes reporting from KQED’s Matthew Green, Alex Gonzalez, and Bay City News.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983768/cecil-williams-legendary-pastor-of-glide-church-dies-at-94","authors":["237"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_29728","news_33981","news_856","news_3181"],"featImg":"news_11983781","label":"news"},"forum_2010101905491":{"type":"posts","id":"forum_2010101905491","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"forum","id":"2010101905491","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"erik-aadahl-on-the-power-of-sound-in-film","title":"Erik Aadahl on the Power of Sound in Film","publishDate":1713914182,"format":"audio","headTitle":"Erik Aadahl on the Power of Sound in Film | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"forum"},"content":"\u003cp>We often think of film as a visual medium. But a carefully placed sound effect or a well crafted sonic atmosphere can evoke emotion just as profoundly. Can you imagine a movie like “Godzilla” without the monster’s signature roar? Or the terrifying silence of “A Quiet Place?” For Erik Aadahl, the Oscar nominated sound designer behind both of those films, sound is the human sense tied closest to our emotions. We talk with Aadahl about what his work entails, how he sources sound for his films and how he creates soundscapes both otherworldly and joyous. What movies stand out to you for their sound?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"We talk with Aadahl about what his work entails, how he sources sound for his films and how he creates soundscapes both otherworldly and joyous.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713987997,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":3,"wordCount":112},"headData":{"title":"Erik Aadahl on the Power of Sound in Film | KQED","description":"We talk with Aadahl about what his work entails, how he sources sound for his films and how he creates soundscapes both otherworldly and joyous.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Erik Aadahl on the Power of Sound in Film","datePublished":"2024-04-23T23:16:22.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-24T19:46:37.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC7484057311.mp3?updated=1713987406","airdate":1713978000,"forumGuests":[{"name":"Erik Aadahl","bio":"sound designer; co-founder of the studio, E Squared - credits include \"Transformers,\" \"Godzilla,\" \"A Quiet Place,\" \"Argo,\" \"Kung Fu Panda,\" and \"The Creator\""}],"sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/forum/2010101905491/erik-aadahl-on-the-power-of-sound-in-film","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>We often think of film as a visual medium. But a carefully placed sound effect or a well crafted sonic atmosphere can evoke emotion just as profoundly. Can you imagine a movie like “Godzilla” without the monster’s signature roar? Or the terrifying silence of “A Quiet Place?” For Erik Aadahl, the Oscar nominated sound designer behind both of those films, sound is the human sense tied closest to our emotions. We talk with Aadahl about what his work entails, how he sources sound for his films and how he creates soundscapes both otherworldly and joyous. What movies stand out to you for their sound?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/forum/2010101905491/erik-aadahl-on-the-power-of-sound-in-film","authors":["243"],"categories":["forum_165"],"featImg":"forum_2010101905498","label":"forum"},"news_11983878":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983878","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983878","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"fresnos-chinatown-neighborhood-to-see-big-changes-from-high-speed-rail","title":"Fresno's Chinatown Neighborhood To See Big Changes From High Speed Rail","publishDate":1713969364,"format":"audio","headTitle":"Fresno’s Chinatown Neighborhood To See Big Changes From High Speed Rail | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>High Speed Rail Offers Hope, Concerns For One Fresno Neighborhood\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For many Californians, the idea of High Speed Rail becoming a reality, is well just an idea. But in Fresno, where one of the first stations will be built, some residents see the rail system as a lifeline.\u003c/span>\u003cbr>\n\u003cem>Reporter: Madi Bolanos, The California Report\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Protests Over War In Gaza Grow At College Campuses\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Cal Poly Humboldt has shut down its campus, after students occupied a building on campus. And a protest encampment continues to grow at UC Berkeley, as students voice their concerns about the war in Gaza, and universities investing in companies that benefit Israel.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":null,"status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713969364,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":4,"wordCount":109},"headData":{"title":"Fresno's Chinatown Neighborhood To See Big Changes From High Speed Rail | KQED","description":"High Speed Rail Offers Hope, Concerns For One Fresno Neighborhood For many Californians, the idea of High Speed Rail becoming a reality, is well just an idea. But in Fresno, where one of the first stations will be built, some residents see the rail system as a lifeline. Reporter: Madi Bolanos, The California Report Protests Over War In Gaza Grow At College Campuses Cal Poly Humboldt has shut down its campus, after students occupied a building on campus. And a protest encampment continues to grow at UC Berkeley, as students voice their concerns about the war in Gaza, and universities","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Fresno's Chinatown Neighborhood To See Big Changes From High Speed Rail","datePublished":"2024-04-24T14:36:04.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-24T14:36:04.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"Morning Report","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/tcrarchive/","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC6905300993.mp3?updated=1713969415","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983878/fresnos-chinatown-neighborhood-to-see-big-changes-from-high-speed-rail","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>High Speed Rail Offers Hope, Concerns For One Fresno Neighborhood\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For many Californians, the idea of High Speed Rail becoming a reality, is well just an idea. But in Fresno, where one of the first stations will be built, some residents see the rail system as a lifeline.\u003c/span>\u003cbr>\n\u003cem>Reporter: Madi Bolanos, The California Report\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Protests Over War In Gaza Grow At College Campuses\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Cal Poly Humboldt has shut down its campus, after students occupied a building on campus. And a protest encampment continues to grow at UC Berkeley, as students voice their concerns about the war in Gaza, and universities investing in companies that benefit Israel.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983878/fresnos-chinatown-neighborhood-to-see-big-changes-from-high-speed-rail","authors":["236"],"programs":["news_72"],"categories":["news_21291"],"tags":["news_21998","news_21268"],"featImg":"news_11983879","label":"source_news_11983878"},"forum_2010101905485":{"type":"posts","id":"forum_2010101905485","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"forum","id":"2010101905485","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"kqed-youth-takeover-how-can-san-jose-schools-create-safer-campuses","title":"KQED Youth Takeover: How Can San Jose Schools Create Safer Campuses?","publishDate":1713913384,"format":"audio","headTitle":"KQED Youth Takeover: How Can San Jose Schools Create Safer Campuses? | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"forum"},"content":"\u003cp>In 2020 and 2021, against a backdrop of the Black Lives Matter movement and Covid-19 pandemic, school districts across the country made the decision to remove police officers from their campuses. In the San Jose area, pressure from teachers and parents pushed several school districts to increase mental health support on campuses – hiring social workers and creating wellness centers – as an alternative to policing. As part of KQED’s Youth Takeover week, high school students Khadeejah Khan and Nico Fischer, and a panel of educators, will examine that decision, learn how different schools in San Jose have adapted, and discuss new issues around safety. And we’ll hear from you: how can we create safe, positive environments for students?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"In the San Jose area, pressure from teachers and parents pushed several school districts to increase mental health support on campuses - hiring social workers and creating wellness centers - as an alternative to policing. As part of KQED’s Youth Takeover week, high school juniors Khadeejah Khan and Nico Fischer, and a panel of educators, will examine that decision.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713987560,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":3,"wordCount":126},"headData":{"title":"KQED Youth Takeover: How Can San Jose Schools Create Safer Campuses? | KQED","description":"In the San Jose area, pressure from teachers and parents pushed several school districts to increase mental health support on campuses - hiring social workers and creating wellness centers - as an alternative to policing. As part of KQED’s Youth Takeover week, high school juniors Khadeejah Khan and Nico Fischer, and a panel of educators, will examine that decision.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"KQED Youth Takeover: How Can San Jose Schools Create Safer Campuses?","datePublished":"2024-04-23T23:03:04.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-24T19:39:20.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC5615044161.mp3?updated=1713987842","airdate":1713974400,"forumGuests":[{"name":"Khadeejah Khan","bio":"senior, Santa Clara High School"},{"name":"Nico Fischer","bio":"sophomore, Santa Clara High School"},{"name":"Rachel Stanek","bio":"English teacher of thirty years in the East Side Union High School District"},{"name":"Tomara Hall","bio":"special education teacher, San Jose Unified School District; Equity Coalition leader and community organizer"},{"name":"Mike Gatenby","bio":"teacher, East Side Union High School District"}],"sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/forum/2010101905485/kqed-youth-takeover-how-can-san-jose-schools-create-safer-campuses","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>In 2020 and 2021, against a backdrop of the Black Lives Matter movement and Covid-19 pandemic, school districts across the country made the decision to remove police officers from their campuses. In the San Jose area, pressure from teachers and parents pushed several school districts to increase mental health support on campuses – hiring social workers and creating wellness centers – as an alternative to policing. As part of KQED’s Youth Takeover week, high school students Khadeejah Khan and Nico Fischer, and a panel of educators, will examine that decision, learn how different schools in San Jose have adapted, and discuss new issues around safety. And we’ll hear from you: how can we create safe, positive environments for students?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/forum/2010101905485/kqed-youth-takeover-how-can-san-jose-schools-create-safer-campuses","authors":["11757"],"categories":["forum_165"],"tags":["forum_640"],"featImg":"forum_2010101905486","label":"forum"},"news_11821950":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11821950","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11821950","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"how-to-safely-attend-a-protest-in-the-bay-area","title":"How to Attend a Rally Safely in the Bay Area: Your Rights, Protections and the Police","publishDate":1713907559,"format":"standard","headTitle":"How to Attend a Rally Safely in the Bay Area: Your Rights, Protections and the Police | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This story was originally published on June 24, 2022, and was last updated at 3 p.m. Wednesday, April 24.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Months into 2024, the Bay Area has seen many passionate demonstrations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These range from students \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11971577/berkeleys-peoples-park-cleared-by-police-7-arrested\">opposing construction replacing People’s Park in Berkeley\u003c/a> and a march in response to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11983701/sweeps-kill-bay-area-homeless-advocates-weigh-in-on-pivotal-u-s-supreme-court-case\">a Supreme Court case addressing how cities can respond to homelessness\u003c/a> to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/gaza\">protests, rallies and vigils drawing thousands of people around the region in support of a cease-fire in Gaza\u003c/a> — joining direct action taking place nationwide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Jump straight to: \u003ca href=\"#start\">Tips on what to have ready before going to a protest.\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>These latest protests included \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11982940/protesters-shut-down-880-freeway-in-oakland-as-part-of-economic-blockade-for-gaza\">a series of actions on April 15 that blocked I-880 in Oakland and the Golden Gate Bridge\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.berkeleyside.org/2024/04/22/uc-berkeley-protest-sit-in-gaza-war-cal-investments\">a sit-in at UC Berkeley\u003c/a>. These protests follow \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/columbia-yale-israel-palestinians-protests-56c3d9d0a278c15ed8e4132a75ea9599\">student protests at other universities, including Columbia and Yale\u003c/a>. (Read more about the decadeslong background from \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/series/1205445976/middle-east-crisis\">NPR in their ‘Middle East crisis — explained’ series\u003c/a>.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11965032\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11965032 size-full\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut.jpg\" alt=\"A young woman stands in front of a high school building. She looks away from the camera and has the Palestinian flag painted on her rigth cheek.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Deena, a high school student, participates in a walkout to demand a cease-fire in the Israel-Hamas war in San Francisco on Oct. 18, 2023. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The San Francisco Bay Area has a long history of protest. But if you plan on attending a rally, how can you stay safe? What are your rights as a protester?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If this is the first time you or your friends will go to a protest, make sure to bookmark this guide, as our team frequently updates it with new information.[aside postID='news_11967439,news_11955465,news_11871364,news_11827832' label='Related Guides From KQED']\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And remember: If you’re unable to join a rally or protest in person for whatever reason but want to make your stance on an issue known, you always have the option to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967439/how-can-i-call-my-representative-a-step-by-step-guide-to-the-process\">contact your elected officials to express your opinions\u003c/a>. For more information on what “call your reps” actually means, how to do it, and what to expect as a result, read our explainer, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967439/how-can-i-call-my-representative-a-step-by-step-guide-to-the-process\">How Can I Call My Representative? A Step-by-Step Guide to the Process\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"start\">\u003c/a>Have a plan — and then a backup plan\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>There’s a lot you can do before a protest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Travel with friends\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Choose a meeting place beforehand in the event you get separated. You may also want to designate a friend who is not at the protest as someone you can check in with.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Charge your phone. However, some activist groups also recommend taking digital security measures, such as disabling the fingerprint unlock feature to prevent a police officer from forcing you to unlock the phone. Others also recommend turning off text preview on messages and using a more secure messaging app, such as Signal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Also, make sure that you can function without a phone. Consider writing down important phone numbers and keeping them with you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pack a small bag\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bring only essentials such as water, snacks, hand sanitizer and an extra phone charger.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The active component in tear gas adheres to moisture on your face. So it’s also a good idea to pack an extra mask or face covering in case you are exposed to tear gas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some people \u003ca href=\"https://lifehacker.com/how-to-protest-safely-and-legally-5859590\">recommend bringing basic medical supplies and a bandana soaked in vinegar\u003c/a> or \u003ca href=\"https://www.popsci.com/story/diy/tear-gas-guide/\">in water in a sealed plastic bag\u003c/a> in case there is tear gas. Others recommend a small bottle of water — or even better, a squirt bottle — to pour on your face and eyes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you get tear-gassed, it is often recommended to:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>Close your eyes.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Hold your breath.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Get out of the area as soon as possible.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Rinse your eyes when possible (ideally using what you have packed with you).\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Research the intended protest route\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This may be confusing since there’s not always a clearly stated route (a protest is, or course, not a parade), but some protests have preplanned routes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By knowing where the protest is headed, you will be able to plan how you might \u003ca href=\"https://netpol.org/guide-to-kettles/\">avoid being caught in a “kettle”\u003c/a> or other containment method — and be able to leave when you are ready.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Know who is organizing the protest\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s worth doing some research on the people and groups behind any protest you plan to attend to make sure it’s in alignment with your values and objectives. During certain Black Lives Matter protests in San Diego in June 2020, for instance, organizers warned demonstrators to avoid specific events they said likely had been surreptitiously coordinated by white nationalist groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Know your rights\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>You are entitled to free speech and freedom of assembly. However, your rights can be unclear during curfews and shelter-in-place orders. The American Civil Liberties Union has a \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights/#i-want-to-take-pictures-or-shoot-video-at-a-protest\">detailed guide to your rights as a protester or a protest organizer\u003c/a>. Notably, when police issue an order to disperse, it is meant to be the last resort for law enforcement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If officers issue a dispersal order, they must provide a reasonable opportunity to comply, including sufficient time and a clear, unobstructed exit path,” \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights/#i-want-to-take-pictures-or-shoot-video-at-a-protest\">according to the ACLU\u003c/a>. \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11955465/dolores-hill-bomb-legal-rights-spectator-onlooker\">Read our guide to your rights as a spectator.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you are photographing others, it is recommended to respect privacy, as some may not want to have videos or photos taken. This may also depend on context, location and time of day. In some cases journalists, or those documenting events, have been the target of tear gas and rubber bullets.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"#tellus\">Tell us: What else do you need information about right now?\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>The First Amendment gives you the right to film police who are actively performing their duties, and bystander videos can provide important counternarratives to official accounts. Read our \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11871364/recording-the-police-what-to-know-and-how-to-stay-safe-doing-it\">guide to filming encounters with the police safely and ethically\u003c/a> and where to share your footage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Additional information can be found from the ACLU and the National Lawyers Guild — the NLG has \u003ca href=\"https://www.nlg.org/know-your-rights/\">pocket-sized know-your-rights guides\u003c/a> in multiple languages. Writing the number for the NLG hotline (and other important numbers such as emergency contacts) on your arm in case you lose your phone or have it confiscated is another suggested way to ensure you have it — should you need it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11958935\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11958935\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A large crowd with signs gathers in front of a large stone building. A line of police officers stands nearby.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Protesters, counter-protesters, and SFPD are seen at a rally in front of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco on Wednesday, Aug. 23, 2023. The court is hearing arguments for the city’s appeal of an injunction filed by the Coalition on Homelessness, which has temporarily kept city workers from removing encampments on the streets. \u003ccite>(Juliana Yamada/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Be aware of your surroundings\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During the first few days of George Floyd protests in the Bay Area in June 2020, there were fireworks, fires, rubber bullets, tear gas, flash-bangs and even some gunshots. Being aware of your surroundings includes having an understanding of what possible actions may occur around you.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Know the possible law enforcement ramifications of attending a protest\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>On April 17, San Francisco District Attorney Brooke Jenkins announced that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11983413/could-protesters-who-shut-down-golden-gate-bridge-be-charged-with-false-imprisonment\">she was considering charging a group of pro-Palestinian protesters\u003c/a> with a felony for \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11982940/protesters-shut-down-880-freeway-in-oakland-as-part-of-economic-blockade-for-gaza\">blocking Bay Area freeways\u003c/a>. People who were stuck in traffic on the bridge, Jenkins \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11983413/could-protesters-who-shut-down-golden-gate-bridge-be-charged-with-false-imprisonment\">wrote on X\u003c/a>, “may be entitled to restitution + have other victim rights guaranteed under Marsy’s law.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>ACLU Northern California’s legal director, Shilpi Agarwal said she found the move by Jenkins had the potential to cast a “chilling effect” on speech in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Lawful protests are, by design, meant to be visible and inconvenient,” Agarwal said. And while the government can place “reasonable limits on protest” in what is called \u003ca href=\"https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/time-place-and-manner-restrictions/\">a “time, place, and manner restriction\u003c/a>” — meaning authorities can call for certain parameters of protest for safety or other people using the space — the government may \u003ci>not \u003c/i>tell people they cannot protest. And in public spaces, Agarwal said, “people are allowed to protest.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What kinds of law enforcement charges could protesters face, however? Agarwal said while \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclunc.org/our-work/know-your-rights\">charges for protests can be nuanced\u003c/a>, at a basic level, if you are engaged in a protest and encounter police officers who then determine for “some reason” you have violated the “parameters” of the protest, there are usually three charging options available to officers:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>An infraction: typically a ticket where you show your ID, get a citation and may have to appear in court. Usually, an infraction is just a fine to pay.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>A misdemeanor: for which “you rarely serve” jail time for low-level offenses, Agarwal said.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>A felony: A more serious criminal charge that usually brings jail time.\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Agarwal said the “vast majority of offenses that are commonly charged at protests, when the police do get involved, are typically infractions or misdemeanors.” Common provisions for protesters have been something like resisting arrest, disrupting a public meeting, and failing to disperse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Center for Protest Law and Litigation’s senior counsel, Rachel Lederman, said restitution is common in criminal cases, adding that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967536/protesters-calling-for-gaza-ceasefire-block-bay-bridges-westbound-lanes\">pro-Palestinian protesters who blocked the Bay Bridge\u003c/a> in November 2023 are currently paying “a very small amount of restitution to one person who had a specific medical bill, that they attributed to the traffic blockage.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On April 22, California State Assemblymember Kate Sanchez introduced \u003ca href=\"https://www.courthousenews.com/california-bill-would-create-new-infraction-for-protesters-who-block-highways/\">a bill before the Assembly Transportation Committee\u003c/a> that would create a new infraction for those who obstruct a highway during a protest that affects an emergency vehicle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill proposes a fine of between $200 and $500 for the first offense, $300 and $1000 for the second offense and $500 to $1000 for additional offenses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Reminder: Your rights are at their highest in a public forum\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When considering your rights, take into account the location where a protest may take place — it could be a campus, a city council meeting, or a usually busy road. And Agarwal said that while the law is complicated and can vary in different situations, First Amendment rights are generally “at their highest when something is a public forum” — that is, a place like a sidewalk or a public plaza.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Aside from the \u003ca href=\"https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/time-place-and-manner-restrictions/\">time, place, and manner restriction\u003c/a>, “when you have a public forum, there is very, very little that the government can do to regulate your speech,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Conversely, First Amendment rights are at their lowest at places like private homes, Agarwal said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It doesn’t mean that you have no rights, but it does mean that whenever and wherever you are on something that is not a public forum, the strength of your First Amendment rights starts to wane,” she said. “And the government can do more to regulate what you can and cannot say.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Remember there are many ways to protest\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>As the disability community continues to remind others, there are many ways to show up. We are still in a pandemic, and you may need to weigh the risks and goals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can participate in many meaningful ways that don’t include attending an in-person protest or rally. This could include educating yourself, voting, talking to your community and supporting grassroots organizations, as outlined in \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13881199/5-ways-to-show-up-for-racial-justice-today\">this 2020 guide from KQED’s Nastia Voynovskaya\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can also \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967439/how-can-i-call-my-representative-a-step-by-step-guide-to-the-process\">contact your elected officials to express your opinions\u003c/a>. For more information on what “call your reps” actually means, read our explainer, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967439/how-can-i-call-my-representative-a-step-by-step-guide-to-the-process\">How Can I Call My Representative? A Step-by-Step Guide to the Process\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>COVID is still with us: What to know about your possible risks attending a protest\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The good news: Your risks of getting COVID-19 outdoors remain far lower than your risks indoors — about 20 times less, said Dr. Peter Chin-Hong, professor of medicine and infectious disease specialist at UCSF.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Also, being vaccinated and boosted will greatly reduce your risks of getting very sick, being hospitalized or dying from COVID-19. If you’re not yet boosted, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11960630/free-new-covid-vaccine-near-me-2023\">find the new COVID-19 vaccine shot near you\u003c/a>. If you’re bringing children to a protest with you, remember that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11917289/covid-vaccines-for-kids-under-5-are-here-heres-how-to-find-one\">kids and babies aged 6 months and over can get their primary COVID-19 vaccine series\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But you should still think about your risks of getting (or spreading) COVID-19 at a big event full of people, even when you’re outdoors. As with so many decisions during the pandemic, a lot comes down to your personal risks and circumstances — not just to protect yourself but others, too. “I think it requires people to be thoughtful about who they are, who they live with, and what happens when they leave the protest and go back home,” Chin-Hong said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Consider bringing a mask along regardless\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s not only the number of people you’ll encounter at a protest — it’s what they might be \u003cem>doing\u003c/em>. Even outside, screaming, chanting, coughing and singing all expel more of the particles that can spread COVID-19 than regular activity does, and you may decide to keep your mask on during a protest if it’s a super-crowded space.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You might also find that some protest organizers explicitly request you wear a mask and maintain social distancing at the event, especially if the event is being attended by groups or communities at higher risk for severe illness from COVID-19.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There’s also the possibility that you might not \u003cem>stay\u003c/em> outside the whole time. “Whenever you have a protest, nobody just stays necessarily outdoors,” Chin-Hong said, giving pre-protest gatherings and meetings or post-protest dinners as examples.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“These may be done in people’s homes. I think it’s the stuff that goes around the actual outdoor protest that I’m more worried about,” Chin-Hong said. He recommends that people “think about carrying a mask with them, like they carry an umbrella. So that they just bring out the ‘umbrella’ when it’s potentially ‘raining with COVID\u003ci>.\u003c/i>‘”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11965077\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1020px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11965077\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/RS43804_GettyImages-1244191840-1-qut-1020x680-1.jpg\" alt=\"A large crowed with signs crowds around a building that has been fenced off. Many are pushing against the fence and others are carrying signs. Almost all are wearing facemasks.\" width=\"1020\" height=\"680\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/RS43804_GettyImages-1244191840-1-qut-1020x680-1.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/RS43804_GettyImages-1244191840-1-qut-1020x680-1-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/RS43804_GettyImages-1244191840-1-qut-1020x680-1-160x107.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1020px) 100vw, 1020px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Protesters take a knee during a demonstration outside of Mission Police Station to honor of George Floyd on June 3, 2020, in San Francisco. Three years since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, it is still common to see people wearing facemasks at protests to protect themselves from a possible coronavirus infection.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Back in 2021, Chin-Hong told KQED that protests against racist violence and the killing of Black people by police were themselves “a response to a public health threat, if you think about the impact of structural racism and stress on health care.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, when it comes to weighing the desire to protest a cause with the risks of getting or spreading COVID-19, “I think the benefits of protesting are even more in favor of protesting now,” Chin-Hong told KQED in 2022. That “risk/benefit calculus,” as he puts it, is even more in favor of attending a rally — “because we have so many tools to keep people safer,” from vaccines and boosters to improved COVID-19 treatment if someone \u003cem>is\u003c/em> hospitalized.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story includes reporting from KQED’s Lakshmi Sarah, Lisa Pickoff-White, Carly Severn and Nisa Khan. Beth LaBerge and \u003c/em>\u003cem>Peter Arcuni also contributed. A version of this story originally published on April 23, 2021.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"tellus\">\u003c/a>Tell us: What else do you need information about?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>At KQED News, we know that it can sometimes be hard to track down the answers to navigate life in the Bay Area. We’ve published \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/coronavirus-resources-and-explainers\">clear, helpful explainers and guides about issues like COVID-19\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11936674/how-to-prepare-for-this-weeks-atmospheric-river-storm-sandbags-emergency-kits-and-more\">how to cope with intense winter weather\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11821950/how-to-safely-attend-a-protest-in-the-bay-area\">how to exercise your right to protest safely\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So tell us: What do you need to know more about? Tell us, and you could see your question answered online or on social media. What you submit will make our reporting stronger, and help us decide what to cover here on our site, and on KQED Public Radio, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[hearken id=\"10483\" src=\"https://modules.wearehearken.com/kqed/embed/10483.js\"]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Here are some tips on safety and preparation, should you choose to participate in a protest about a cause you care about.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713995948,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":true,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":61,"wordCount":2709},"headData":{"title":"How to Attend a Rally Safely in the Bay Area: Your Rights, Protections and the Police | KQED","description":"Here are some tips on safety and preparation, should you choose to participate in a protest about a cause you care about.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"How to Attend a Rally Safely in the Bay Area: Your Rights, Protections and the Police","datePublished":"2024-04-23T21:25:59.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-24T21:59:08.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"source":"News","sourceUrl":"http://kqed.org/news","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11821950/how-to-safely-attend-a-protest-in-the-bay-area","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This story was originally published on June 24, 2022, and was last updated at 3 p.m. Wednesday, April 24.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Months into 2024, the Bay Area has seen many passionate demonstrations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These range from students \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11971577/berkeleys-peoples-park-cleared-by-police-7-arrested\">opposing construction replacing People’s Park in Berkeley\u003c/a> and a march in response to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11983701/sweeps-kill-bay-area-homeless-advocates-weigh-in-on-pivotal-u-s-supreme-court-case\">a Supreme Court case addressing how cities can respond to homelessness\u003c/a> to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/gaza\">protests, rallies and vigils drawing thousands of people around the region in support of a cease-fire in Gaza\u003c/a> — joining direct action taking place nationwide.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Jump straight to: \u003ca href=\"#start\">Tips on what to have ready before going to a protest.\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>These latest protests included \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11982940/protesters-shut-down-880-freeway-in-oakland-as-part-of-economic-blockade-for-gaza\">a series of actions on April 15 that blocked I-880 in Oakland and the Golden Gate Bridge\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.berkeleyside.org/2024/04/22/uc-berkeley-protest-sit-in-gaza-war-cal-investments\">a sit-in at UC Berkeley\u003c/a>. These protests follow \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/columbia-yale-israel-palestinians-protests-56c3d9d0a278c15ed8e4132a75ea9599\">student protests at other universities, including Columbia and Yale\u003c/a>. (Read more about the decadeslong background from \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/series/1205445976/middle-east-crisis\">NPR in their ‘Middle East crisis — explained’ series\u003c/a>.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11965032\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11965032 size-full\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut.jpg\" alt=\"A young woman stands in front of a high school building. She looks away from the camera and has the Palestinian flag painted on her rigth cheek.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/231018-StudentWalkoutGaza-011-BL-qut-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Deena, a high school student, participates in a walkout to demand a cease-fire in the Israel-Hamas war in San Francisco on Oct. 18, 2023. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The San Francisco Bay Area has a long history of protest. But if you plan on attending a rally, how can you stay safe? What are your rights as a protester?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If this is the first time you or your friends will go to a protest, make sure to bookmark this guide, as our team frequently updates it with new information.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"news_11967439,news_11955465,news_11871364,news_11827832","label":"Related Guides From KQED "},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And remember: If you’re unable to join a rally or protest in person for whatever reason but want to make your stance on an issue known, you always have the option to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967439/how-can-i-call-my-representative-a-step-by-step-guide-to-the-process\">contact your elected officials to express your opinions\u003c/a>. For more information on what “call your reps” actually means, how to do it, and what to expect as a result, read our explainer, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967439/how-can-i-call-my-representative-a-step-by-step-guide-to-the-process\">How Can I Call My Representative? A Step-by-Step Guide to the Process\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"start\">\u003c/a>Have a plan — and then a backup plan\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>There’s a lot you can do before a protest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Travel with friends\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Choose a meeting place beforehand in the event you get separated. You may also want to designate a friend who is not at the protest as someone you can check in with.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Charge your phone. However, some activist groups also recommend taking digital security measures, such as disabling the fingerprint unlock feature to prevent a police officer from forcing you to unlock the phone. Others also recommend turning off text preview on messages and using a more secure messaging app, such as Signal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Also, make sure that you can function without a phone. Consider writing down important phone numbers and keeping them with you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pack a small bag\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bring only essentials such as water, snacks, hand sanitizer and an extra phone charger.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The active component in tear gas adheres to moisture on your face. So it’s also a good idea to pack an extra mask or face covering in case you are exposed to tear gas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some people \u003ca href=\"https://lifehacker.com/how-to-protest-safely-and-legally-5859590\">recommend bringing basic medical supplies and a bandana soaked in vinegar\u003c/a> or \u003ca href=\"https://www.popsci.com/story/diy/tear-gas-guide/\">in water in a sealed plastic bag\u003c/a> in case there is tear gas. Others recommend a small bottle of water — or even better, a squirt bottle — to pour on your face and eyes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you get tear-gassed, it is often recommended to:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>Close your eyes.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Hold your breath.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Get out of the area as soon as possible.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Rinse your eyes when possible (ideally using what you have packed with you).\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Research the intended protest route\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This may be confusing since there’s not always a clearly stated route (a protest is, or course, not a parade), but some protests have preplanned routes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By knowing where the protest is headed, you will be able to plan how you might \u003ca href=\"https://netpol.org/guide-to-kettles/\">avoid being caught in a “kettle”\u003c/a> or other containment method — and be able to leave when you are ready.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Know who is organizing the protest\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s worth doing some research on the people and groups behind any protest you plan to attend to make sure it’s in alignment with your values and objectives. During certain Black Lives Matter protests in San Diego in June 2020, for instance, organizers warned demonstrators to avoid specific events they said likely had been surreptitiously coordinated by white nationalist groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Know your rights\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>You are entitled to free speech and freedom of assembly. However, your rights can be unclear during curfews and shelter-in-place orders. The American Civil Liberties Union has a \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights/#i-want-to-take-pictures-or-shoot-video-at-a-protest\">detailed guide to your rights as a protester or a protest organizer\u003c/a>. Notably, when police issue an order to disperse, it is meant to be the last resort for law enforcement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If officers issue a dispersal order, they must provide a reasonable opportunity to comply, including sufficient time and a clear, unobstructed exit path,” \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights/#i-want-to-take-pictures-or-shoot-video-at-a-protest\">according to the ACLU\u003c/a>. \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11955465/dolores-hill-bomb-legal-rights-spectator-onlooker\">Read our guide to your rights as a spectator.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you are photographing others, it is recommended to respect privacy, as some may not want to have videos or photos taken. This may also depend on context, location and time of day. In some cases journalists, or those documenting events, have been the target of tear gas and rubber bullets.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"#tellus\">Tell us: What else do you need information about right now?\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>The First Amendment gives you the right to film police who are actively performing their duties, and bystander videos can provide important counternarratives to official accounts. Read our \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11871364/recording-the-police-what-to-know-and-how-to-stay-safe-doing-it\">guide to filming encounters with the police safely and ethically\u003c/a> and where to share your footage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Additional information can be found from the ACLU and the National Lawyers Guild — the NLG has \u003ca href=\"https://www.nlg.org/know-your-rights/\">pocket-sized know-your-rights guides\u003c/a> in multiple languages. Writing the number for the NLG hotline (and other important numbers such as emergency contacts) on your arm in case you lose your phone or have it confiscated is another suggested way to ensure you have it — should you need it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11958935\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11958935\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A large crowd with signs gathers in front of a large stone building. A line of police officers stands nearby.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/RS68263_20230822-HomelessLawsuit-17-JY-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Protesters, counter-protesters, and SFPD are seen at a rally in front of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco on Wednesday, Aug. 23, 2023. The court is hearing arguments for the city’s appeal of an injunction filed by the Coalition on Homelessness, which has temporarily kept city workers from removing encampments on the streets. \u003ccite>(Juliana Yamada/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Be aware of your surroundings\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During the first few days of George Floyd protests in the Bay Area in June 2020, there were fireworks, fires, rubber bullets, tear gas, flash-bangs and even some gunshots. Being aware of your surroundings includes having an understanding of what possible actions may occur around you.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Know the possible law enforcement ramifications of attending a protest\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>On April 17, San Francisco District Attorney Brooke Jenkins announced that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11983413/could-protesters-who-shut-down-golden-gate-bridge-be-charged-with-false-imprisonment\">she was considering charging a group of pro-Palestinian protesters\u003c/a> with a felony for \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11982940/protesters-shut-down-880-freeway-in-oakland-as-part-of-economic-blockade-for-gaza\">blocking Bay Area freeways\u003c/a>. People who were stuck in traffic on the bridge, Jenkins \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11983413/could-protesters-who-shut-down-golden-gate-bridge-be-charged-with-false-imprisonment\">wrote on X\u003c/a>, “may be entitled to restitution + have other victim rights guaranteed under Marsy’s law.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>ACLU Northern California’s legal director, Shilpi Agarwal said she found the move by Jenkins had the potential to cast a “chilling effect” on speech in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Lawful protests are, by design, meant to be visible and inconvenient,” Agarwal said. And while the government can place “reasonable limits on protest” in what is called \u003ca href=\"https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/time-place-and-manner-restrictions/\">a “time, place, and manner restriction\u003c/a>” — meaning authorities can call for certain parameters of protest for safety or other people using the space — the government may \u003ci>not \u003c/i>tell people they cannot protest. And in public spaces, Agarwal said, “people are allowed to protest.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What kinds of law enforcement charges could protesters face, however? Agarwal said while \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclunc.org/our-work/know-your-rights\">charges for protests can be nuanced\u003c/a>, at a basic level, if you are engaged in a protest and encounter police officers who then determine for “some reason” you have violated the “parameters” of the protest, there are usually three charging options available to officers:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>An infraction: typically a ticket where you show your ID, get a citation and may have to appear in court. Usually, an infraction is just a fine to pay.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>A misdemeanor: for which “you rarely serve” jail time for low-level offenses, Agarwal said.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>A felony: A more serious criminal charge that usually brings jail time.\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Agarwal said the “vast majority of offenses that are commonly charged at protests, when the police do get involved, are typically infractions or misdemeanors.” Common provisions for protesters have been something like resisting arrest, disrupting a public meeting, and failing to disperse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Center for Protest Law and Litigation’s senior counsel, Rachel Lederman, said restitution is common in criminal cases, adding that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967536/protesters-calling-for-gaza-ceasefire-block-bay-bridges-westbound-lanes\">pro-Palestinian protesters who blocked the Bay Bridge\u003c/a> in November 2023 are currently paying “a very small amount of restitution to one person who had a specific medical bill, that they attributed to the traffic blockage.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On April 22, California State Assemblymember Kate Sanchez introduced \u003ca href=\"https://www.courthousenews.com/california-bill-would-create-new-infraction-for-protesters-who-block-highways/\">a bill before the Assembly Transportation Committee\u003c/a> that would create a new infraction for those who obstruct a highway during a protest that affects an emergency vehicle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill proposes a fine of between $200 and $500 for the first offense, $300 and $1000 for the second offense and $500 to $1000 for additional offenses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Reminder: Your rights are at their highest in a public forum\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When considering your rights, take into account the location where a protest may take place — it could be a campus, a city council meeting, or a usually busy road. And Agarwal said that while the law is complicated and can vary in different situations, First Amendment rights are generally “at their highest when something is a public forum” — that is, a place like a sidewalk or a public plaza.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Aside from the \u003ca href=\"https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/time-place-and-manner-restrictions/\">time, place, and manner restriction\u003c/a>, “when you have a public forum, there is very, very little that the government can do to regulate your speech,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Conversely, First Amendment rights are at their lowest at places like private homes, Agarwal said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It doesn’t mean that you have no rights, but it does mean that whenever and wherever you are on something that is not a public forum, the strength of your First Amendment rights starts to wane,” she said. “And the government can do more to regulate what you can and cannot say.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Remember there are many ways to protest\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>As the disability community continues to remind others, there are many ways to show up. We are still in a pandemic, and you may need to weigh the risks and goals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can participate in many meaningful ways that don’t include attending an in-person protest or rally. This could include educating yourself, voting, talking to your community and supporting grassroots organizations, as outlined in \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13881199/5-ways-to-show-up-for-racial-justice-today\">this 2020 guide from KQED’s Nastia Voynovskaya\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You can also \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967439/how-can-i-call-my-representative-a-step-by-step-guide-to-the-process\">contact your elected officials to express your opinions\u003c/a>. For more information on what “call your reps” actually means, read our explainer, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11967439/how-can-i-call-my-representative-a-step-by-step-guide-to-the-process\">How Can I Call My Representative? A Step-by-Step Guide to the Process\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>COVID is still with us: What to know about your possible risks attending a protest\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The good news: Your risks of getting COVID-19 outdoors remain far lower than your risks indoors — about 20 times less, said Dr. Peter Chin-Hong, professor of medicine and infectious disease specialist at UCSF.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Also, being vaccinated and boosted will greatly reduce your risks of getting very sick, being hospitalized or dying from COVID-19. If you’re not yet boosted, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11960630/free-new-covid-vaccine-near-me-2023\">find the new COVID-19 vaccine shot near you\u003c/a>. If you’re bringing children to a protest with you, remember that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11917289/covid-vaccines-for-kids-under-5-are-here-heres-how-to-find-one\">kids and babies aged 6 months and over can get their primary COVID-19 vaccine series\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But you should still think about your risks of getting (or spreading) COVID-19 at a big event full of people, even when you’re outdoors. As with so many decisions during the pandemic, a lot comes down to your personal risks and circumstances — not just to protect yourself but others, too. “I think it requires people to be thoughtful about who they are, who they live with, and what happens when they leave the protest and go back home,” Chin-Hong said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Consider bringing a mask along regardless\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s not only the number of people you’ll encounter at a protest — it’s what they might be \u003cem>doing\u003c/em>. Even outside, screaming, chanting, coughing and singing all expel more of the particles that can spread COVID-19 than regular activity does, and you may decide to keep your mask on during a protest if it’s a super-crowded space.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You might also find that some protest organizers explicitly request you wear a mask and maintain social distancing at the event, especially if the event is being attended by groups or communities at higher risk for severe illness from COVID-19.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There’s also the possibility that you might not \u003cem>stay\u003c/em> outside the whole time. “Whenever you have a protest, nobody just stays necessarily outdoors,” Chin-Hong said, giving pre-protest gatherings and meetings or post-protest dinners as examples.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“These may be done in people’s homes. I think it’s the stuff that goes around the actual outdoor protest that I’m more worried about,” Chin-Hong said. He recommends that people “think about carrying a mask with them, like they carry an umbrella. So that they just bring out the ‘umbrella’ when it’s potentially ‘raining with COVID\u003ci>.\u003c/i>‘”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11965077\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1020px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11965077\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/RS43804_GettyImages-1244191840-1-qut-1020x680-1.jpg\" alt=\"A large crowed with signs crowds around a building that has been fenced off. Many are pushing against the fence and others are carrying signs. Almost all are wearing facemasks.\" width=\"1020\" height=\"680\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/RS43804_GettyImages-1244191840-1-qut-1020x680-1.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/RS43804_GettyImages-1244191840-1-qut-1020x680-1-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/RS43804_GettyImages-1244191840-1-qut-1020x680-1-160x107.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1020px) 100vw, 1020px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Protesters take a knee during a demonstration outside of Mission Police Station to honor of George Floyd on June 3, 2020, in San Francisco. Three years since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, it is still common to see people wearing facemasks at protests to protect themselves from a possible coronavirus infection.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Back in 2021, Chin-Hong told KQED that protests against racist violence and the killing of Black people by police were themselves “a response to a public health threat, if you think about the impact of structural racism and stress on health care.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, when it comes to weighing the desire to protest a cause with the risks of getting or spreading COVID-19, “I think the benefits of protesting are even more in favor of protesting now,” Chin-Hong told KQED in 2022. That “risk/benefit calculus,” as he puts it, is even more in favor of attending a rally — “because we have so many tools to keep people safer,” from vaccines and boosters to improved COVID-19 treatment if someone \u003cem>is\u003c/em> hospitalized.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story includes reporting from KQED’s Lakshmi Sarah, Lisa Pickoff-White, Carly Severn and Nisa Khan. Beth LaBerge and \u003c/em>\u003cem>Peter Arcuni also contributed. A version of this story originally published on April 23, 2021.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"tellus\">\u003c/a>Tell us: What else do you need information about?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>At KQED News, we know that it can sometimes be hard to track down the answers to navigate life in the Bay Area. We’ve published \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/coronavirus-resources-and-explainers\">clear, helpful explainers and guides about issues like COVID-19\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11936674/how-to-prepare-for-this-weeks-atmospheric-river-storm-sandbags-emergency-kits-and-more\">how to cope with intense winter weather\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11821950/how-to-safely-attend-a-protest-in-the-bay-area\">how to exercise your right to protest safely\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So tell us: What do you need to know more about? Tell us, and you could see your question answered online or on social media. What you submit will make our reporting stronger, and help us decide what to cover here on our site, and on KQED Public Radio, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"hearken","attributes":{"named":{"id":"10483","src":"https://modules.wearehearken.com/kqed/embed/10483.js","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11821950/how-to-safely-attend-a-protest-in-the-bay-area","authors":["236"],"categories":["news_223","news_8","news_13"],"tags":["news_21077","news_32707","news_1386","news_19971","news_28067","news_18538","news_29029","news_28044","news_6631","news_28031","news_18","news_28041","news_29475","news_29198"],"featImg":"news_11947885","label":"source_news_11821950"},"news_11983850":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983850","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983850","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"will-less-homework-stress-make-california-students-happier","title":"Will Less Homework Stress Make California Students Happier?","publishDate":1713956456,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Will Less Homework Stress Make California Students Happier? | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":18481,"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>Some bills before California’s Legislature don’t come from passionate policy advocates or powerful interest groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sometimes, the inspiration comes from a family car ride.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While campaigning two years ago, Assemblymember \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/legislators/pilar-schiavo-5510\">Pilar Schiavo\u003c/a>’s daughter, then 9, asked from the backseat what her mother could do if she won.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Schiavo answered that she’d be able to make laws. Then, her daughter Sofia asked if she could make a law banning homework.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was a kind of a joke,” the Santa Clarita Valley Democrat said in an interview, “though I’m sure she’d be happy if homework were banned.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Still, the conversation got Schiavo thinking, she said. And while \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/bills/ca_202320240ab2999?slug=CA_202320240AB2999\">Assembly Bill 2999\u003c/a> — which faces its first big test on Wednesday — is far from a ban on homework, it would require school districts, county offices of education and charter schools to develop guidelines for K–12 students. It would urge schools to be more intentional about “good” or meaningful homework.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Among other things, the guidelines should consider students’ physical health, how long assignments take, and how effective they are. However, the bill’s main concern is mental health and when homework adds stress to students’ daily lives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Homework’s impact on happiness is partly why Schiavo brought up the proposal last month during \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/politics/capitol/2024/03/happiness-california-legislature/\">the first meeting of the Legislature’s select committee on happiness\u003c/a>, led by former Assembly Speaker \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/legislators/anthony-rendon-120?_gl=1*186p1dm*_ga*MTM0NTExODk4NS4xNjkwMzA5NjYy*_ga_5TKXNLE5NK*MTcxMzg1MzY3OS45MzYuMS4xNzEzODU2ODUzLjU4LjAuMA..*_ga_GNY4L81DZE*MTcxMzg1Njg1MS4xMDAzLjAuMTcxMzg1Njg1MS4wLjAuMA..\">Anthony Rendon\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=\"mindshift_62400,mindshift_63052\" label=\"Related Stories\"]“This feeling of loneliness and disconnection — I know when my kid is not feeling connected,” Schiavo, a member of the happiness committee, told CalMatters. “It’s when she’s alone in her room (doing homework), not playing with her cousin, not having dinner with her family.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill analysis cites a survey of 15,000 California high schoolers from Challenge Success, a nonprofit affiliated with the Stanford Graduate School of Education. It found that 45% said homework was a major source of stress and that 52% considered most assignments to be busywork.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://challengesuccess.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Challenge-Success-Homework-White-Paper-2020.pdf\">organization also reported in 2020\u003c/a> that students with higher workloads reported “symptoms of exhaustion and lower rates of sleep” but that spending more time on homework did not necessarily lead to higher test scores.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Homework’s potential to also widen inequities is why Casey Cuny supports the measure. Cuny, an English and mythology teacher at Valencia High School and \u003ca href=\"https://www.cde.ca.gov/nr/ne/yr23/yr23rel81.asp\">2024’s California Teacher of the Year\u003c/a>, said language barriers, unreliable home internet, family responsibilities or other outside factors may contribute to a student falling behind on homework.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I never want a kid’s grade to be low because they have divorced parents, and their book was at their dad’s house when they were spending the weekend at mom’s house,” said Cuny, who plans to attend a press conference Wednesday to promote the bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In addition, as technology makes it easier for students to cheat — using artificial technology or chat threads to lift answers, for example — Schiavo said that the educators she has spoken to indicate they’re moving towards more in-class assignments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cuny agrees that an emphasis on classwork does help to rein in cheating and allows him to give students immediate feedback. “I feel that I should teach them what I need to teach them when I’m with them in the room,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983855\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2-.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983855\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2-.jpg\" alt=\"A woman sits at a table facing a woman and man seated at a larger table with microphones attached.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2-.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Members of the Select Committee On Happiness And Public Policy Outcomes listen to speakers during an informational hearing at the California Capitol in Sacramento on March 12, 2024. \u003ccite>(Fred Greaves/CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The bill said the local homework policies should have input from teachers, parents, school counselors, social workers and students; be distributed at the beginning of every school year; and be reevaluated every five years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Assembly Committee on Education is expected to hear the bill Wednesday. Schiavo said she has received bipartisan support, and so far, no official opposition or support has been listed in the bill analysis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But she acknowledges that, if passed, the measure’s provision for parental input may lead to disagreements given the recent \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/newsletter/culture-wars-california-schools/\">culture war disputes\u003c/a> between Democratic officials and parental rights groups backed by some Republican lawmakers. “I’m sure there will be lively (school) board meetings,” Schiavo said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nevertheless, she hopes the proposal will overhaul the discussion around homework and mental health. The bill is especially pertinent now that the state is also poised to \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/health/mental-health/2023/06/mental-health-funding-2/\">cut spending on mental health services for children\u003c/a> with the passage of \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/california-voter-guide-2024/prop-1-mental-health/\">Proposition 1\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Schiavo said the mother of a student with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder told her that the child’s struggle to finish homework had raised issues inside the house, as well as with the school’s principal and teachers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“And I’m just like, it’s sixth grade!” Schaivo said. “What’s going on?”\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"A bill from a member of the Legislature’s happiness committee would require schools to develop homework policies that consider the mental and physical strain on students.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713912168,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":23,"wordCount":848},"headData":{"title":"Will Less Homework Stress Make California Students Happier? | KQED","description":"A bill from a member of the Legislature’s happiness committee would require schools to develop homework policies that consider the mental and physical strain on students.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Will Less Homework Stress Make California Students Happier?","datePublished":"2024-04-24T11:00:56.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-23T22:42:48.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"nprByline":"Lynn La\u003cbr>CalMatters\u003c/br>","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983850/will-less-homework-stress-make-california-students-happier","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Some bills before California’s Legislature don’t come from passionate policy advocates or powerful interest groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sometimes, the inspiration comes from a family car ride.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While campaigning two years ago, Assemblymember \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/legislators/pilar-schiavo-5510\">Pilar Schiavo\u003c/a>’s daughter, then 9, asked from the backseat what her mother could do if she won.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Schiavo answered that she’d be able to make laws. Then, her daughter Sofia asked if she could make a law banning homework.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was a kind of a joke,” the Santa Clarita Valley Democrat said in an interview, “though I’m sure she’d be happy if homework were banned.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Still, the conversation got Schiavo thinking, she said. And while \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/bills/ca_202320240ab2999?slug=CA_202320240AB2999\">Assembly Bill 2999\u003c/a> — which faces its first big test on Wednesday — is far from a ban on homework, it would require school districts, county offices of education and charter schools to develop guidelines for K–12 students. It would urge schools to be more intentional about “good” or meaningful homework.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Among other things, the guidelines should consider students’ physical health, how long assignments take, and how effective they are. However, the bill’s main concern is mental health and when homework adds stress to students’ daily lives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Homework’s impact on happiness is partly why Schiavo brought up the proposal last month during \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/politics/capitol/2024/03/happiness-california-legislature/\">the first meeting of the Legislature’s select committee on happiness\u003c/a>, led by former Assembly Speaker \u003ca href=\"https://digitaldemocracy.calmatters.org/legislators/anthony-rendon-120?_gl=1*186p1dm*_ga*MTM0NTExODk4NS4xNjkwMzA5NjYy*_ga_5TKXNLE5NK*MTcxMzg1MzY3OS45MzYuMS4xNzEzODU2ODUzLjU4LjAuMA..*_ga_GNY4L81DZE*MTcxMzg1Njg1MS4xMDAzLjAuMTcxMzg1Njg1MS4wLjAuMA..\">Anthony Rendon\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"mindshift_62400,mindshift_63052","label":"Related Stories "},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“This feeling of loneliness and disconnection — I know when my kid is not feeling connected,” Schiavo, a member of the happiness committee, told CalMatters. “It’s when she’s alone in her room (doing homework), not playing with her cousin, not having dinner with her family.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill analysis cites a survey of 15,000 California high schoolers from Challenge Success, a nonprofit affiliated with the Stanford Graduate School of Education. It found that 45% said homework was a major source of stress and that 52% considered most assignments to be busywork.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://challengesuccess.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Challenge-Success-Homework-White-Paper-2020.pdf\">organization also reported in 2020\u003c/a> that students with higher workloads reported “symptoms of exhaustion and lower rates of sleep” but that spending more time on homework did not necessarily lead to higher test scores.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Homework’s potential to also widen inequities is why Casey Cuny supports the measure. Cuny, an English and mythology teacher at Valencia High School and \u003ca href=\"https://www.cde.ca.gov/nr/ne/yr23/yr23rel81.asp\">2024’s California Teacher of the Year\u003c/a>, said language barriers, unreliable home internet, family responsibilities or other outside factors may contribute to a student falling behind on homework.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I never want a kid’s grade to be low because they have divorced parents, and their book was at their dad’s house when they were spending the weekend at mom’s house,” said Cuny, who plans to attend a press conference Wednesday to promote the bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In addition, as technology makes it easier for students to cheat — using artificial technology or chat threads to lift answers, for example — Schiavo said that the educators she has spoken to indicate they’re moving towards more in-class assignments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cuny agrees that an emphasis on classwork does help to rein in cheating and allows him to give students immediate feedback. “I feel that I should teach them what I need to teach them when I’m with them in the room,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983855\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2-.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983855\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2-.jpg\" alt=\"A woman sits at a table facing a woman and man seated at a larger table with microphones attached.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2-.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/031224-Happiness-Committee-FG-CM-2--1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Members of the Select Committee On Happiness And Public Policy Outcomes listen to speakers during an informational hearing at the California Capitol in Sacramento on March 12, 2024. \u003ccite>(Fred Greaves/CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The bill said the local homework policies should have input from teachers, parents, school counselors, social workers and students; be distributed at the beginning of every school year; and be reevaluated every five years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Assembly Committee on Education is expected to hear the bill Wednesday. Schiavo said she has received bipartisan support, and so far, no official opposition or support has been listed in the bill analysis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But she acknowledges that, if passed, the measure’s provision for parental input may lead to disagreements given the recent \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/newsletter/culture-wars-california-schools/\">culture war disputes\u003c/a> between Democratic officials and parental rights groups backed by some Republican lawmakers. “I’m sure there will be lively (school) board meetings,” Schiavo said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Nevertheless, she hopes the proposal will overhaul the discussion around homework and mental health. The bill is especially pertinent now that the state is also poised to \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/health/mental-health/2023/06/mental-health-funding-2/\">cut spending on mental health services for children\u003c/a> with the passage of \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/california-voter-guide-2024/prop-1-mental-health/\">Proposition 1\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Schiavo said the mother of a student with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder told her that the child’s struggle to finish homework had raised issues inside the house, as well as with the school’s principal and teachers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“And I’m just like, it’s sixth grade!” Schaivo said. “What’s going on?”\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983850/will-less-homework-stress-make-california-students-happier","authors":["byline_news_11983850"],"categories":["news_18540","news_8"],"tags":["news_32580","news_27626","news_28683","news_2998","news_3457","news_6387"],"affiliates":["news_18481"],"featImg":"news_11983856","label":"news_18481"},"news_11983830":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983830","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983830","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"silicon-valley-house-seat-race-gets-a-recount","title":"Silicon Valley House Seat Race Gets a Recount","publishDate":1713952841,"format":"audio","headTitle":"Silicon Valley House Seat Race Gets a Recount | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp class=\"p1\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ballots are being recounted in the race for California’s 16th Congressional house seat, which ended in a tie for second between Assemblymember Evan Low and Santa Clara County Supervisor Joe Simitian. One or both of them will move on to face former San Jose Mayor Sam Liccardo in November.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>KQED’s Guy Marzorati explains how the recount is working, and why it’s gotten a little ugly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC1324653751&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to the Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. Election workers are recounting ballots in Silicon Valley after the race for California’s 16th congressional district seat ended. In a mind blowing tie, Assembly member Evan Lo and Santa Clara County Supervisor Joe Simitian both got second place, after each winning exactly 30,249 votes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It took just such a insane confluence of events to even end up here. I mean, all the candidates have talked about, like, people coming up to them. I’m really sorry, I have to admit. Like, I didn’t cast a ballot like you. Could have been the difference today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>KQED politics and government correspondent Guy Marzorati explains how the recount is going and why it’s gotten a little ugly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>So this is a district that stretches from Pacifica down through San Mateo County into Santa Clara County, Palo Alto, Mountain View, parts of San Jose all the way to Los Gatos. It’s been represented for about 30 years by Anna Eshoo. She decided last year she’s not going to run for another term. And so this opened up this really wild primary that’s gotten even more interesting recently.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Right. And can you just remind us to who are the players in this election?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So there was a lot of players in the primary. You could have made a football team out of it. There’s 11 candidates, running, but three ones who were the front runners, kind of from the beginning. And that was former mayor of San Jose, Sam Liccardo. Evan Lowe, a state assembly member, and Joe Simitian, who’s currently a Santa Clara County supervisor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Those three, I guess we’re kind of the favorites going in, but there’s a lot of money spent more than $5 million by campaigns in the primary there, as millions more by outside groups just trying to get, you know, candidates names out there. But ultimately those were the, you know, top three finishers in the primary.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Remind us of this very crazy, unlikely. Everything that happened in terms of the results of this race, there were actually two runner ups who were basically caught up in a tie. Like, what are even the odds of that happening?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I’m I’m not a math person, but this you would need one of those massive calculators where they’re like front of it kind of ramps up at the end to figure this out. Basically. Yeah. Liccardo won the primary. He got a little bit more than 38,000 votes. And then Lo and Simeon each ended with 30,249 votes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I mean, it’s just like the chances of that happening and the vote counts were coming in all through the month of March. People were, you know, following it. They would go back and forth. One person would lead the next day, then it would switch. But that’s where they ended up. And what that means is both Simitian and Lo advance of the general election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I know we have a top two primary, but the rules and the top two primaries, if there is a tie for a second, all three candidates, would advance for a general election, which is just incredibly rare. That only happened one time in the state history since we switched to a top two primary, and in this case, the first time where you’d have three Democrats on the ballot in the general election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So this tie that we’re talking about between Evan Lo and Joe Simitian did that, then automatically trigger a recount.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Now, that’s what’s crazy is there is no automatic recount. In this race, that is the law for some local races, like in Santa Clara County and a local race, if it’s within 25 votes, it doesn’t even have to be tied though automatically to a recount. But in this case, there is no automatic recount.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>This is a federal race that stretches across two different counties, and it’s up to a voter to actually come forward and start the recount process. So in this case, you know, once the vote was certified in early April, there was a five day window where any voter could come forward and request a recount as long as they can pay for the recount themselves, then the recount can go forward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>The first place we were looking was would the campaigns be interested in doing this? But both Evan Lowe and Joe Simeon were like, you know what? We’re good. Like, let’s just run it back in in November and see what happens. But then someone did come forward. Jonathan Padilla, who requested a recount in both of the counties and got this process started.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How then, does a recount work? Exactly?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>What literally what’s happening is the ballots are being run back through the machine with the extra added element of PDA has requested to view a lot of election materials and ballots that were not counted the first time around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And what are those ballots you’re referring to? Ballots that weren’t counted.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So this can, you know, range a lot of different ways, but how it’s actually played out so far in this recount is ballots relating to conditional voters. So if you’re someone who shows up to vote but is not registered even up to Election Day in California, you can just register on the spot and cast a, conditional on a provisional ballot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>How that works is you fill out your information, you attest to the fact that you’re a citizen, that you’re 18 years old, that you’re not voting elsewhere, and then the registrar will go and double check all that information and ultimately count your ballot or not. In this case on the form, there was a box that needed to be checked. Just declare I’m a US citizen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>There was also a signature field to say I’m a citizen, I’m 18, etc. in many of these ballots that are being challenged, the voters signed it but did not check that box and so the registrar did not count their ballots. We don’t know which way the voters voted in this race, but the registrar didn’t even go through the process of actually counting that vote. And so Padilla and his lawyers are challenging that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And this is just a very, very small number of ballots. Right. But when we’re talking about a tie, they maybe matter a lot. Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Only takes one. I mean, I think that’s definitely something to drive home in this case. In any election you’re going to look at, there might be a handful of votes that are kind of judgment calls. Maybe it’s a voter marked a certain choice, cross it out and marked another one. In this case, election workers literally review those. Those ballots go on like dual screens and two election workers view them and kind of make their determination.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>But those are kind of judgment calls trying to figure out, okay, what is this voter’s intent. And so in this case, you have, at least in Santa Clara County, about two dozen ballots that have been challenged. You have about a dozen more in San Mateo County, but that’s in the grand scheme of thousands and thousands of votes. So it’s not as if we’re finding a whole different result. But as you say, it only takes one vote to actually change what we’re all watching in this race.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Coming up, we’ll talk about who requested the recount and why. Some folks in the South Bay are suspicious of him. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Okay, so anyone can initiate a recount as long as you basically have the money to to fund it. But in this case, it’s even more interesting, in part because of who requested it and what we know of his background. Tell me a little bit more about who exactly this guy is, Jonathan Padilla.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So here’s where things I think pivot from, like schoolhouse Rock to something a little more spicy. Jonathan Padilla actually used to work for Sam Liccardo. He was the finance director when Liccardo ran for mayor of San Jose in 2014. He contributed to Lakatos campaign last year. He told me like, that’s the last contact he’s had with the campaign from then D.A., someone who stayed politically involved.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Even though he’s a tech entrepreneur, he doesn’t necessarily work in politics, is his day job. He’s been involved in politics. So when it was discovered this is the guy who is requesting the recount. That’s when questions started. Why is he doing this? Is there some advantage that he is looking for for Liccardo by requesting this recount?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Perhaps he wants a field to be narrowed to just two candidates. So that’s when the questions started to come in. And like, you know, what’s the political motivation behind going ahead with this process? You’ve heard a lot of critiques from Evan Lo’s campaign. They’ve even called him like a lackey for Sam Liccardo. They’re basically like, you’re doing Sam Liccardo bidding in this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah. Well, what do we know about that? Why is he spending money to do this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>This is what I’ve been trying to figure out for weeks. Padilla came out and said, you know, I just want to have all the votes counted.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonathan Padilla: \u003c/strong>My positions have been super clear. We should count every single vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I’ve been DMing with him like trying to get more information. Finally, earlier this week, he agreed to to chat on the phone, and he’s kind of stuck by this story that he is not doing this in any kind of coordination with Liccardo.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonathan Padilla: \u003c/strong>This is about counting all the ballots. I have not spoken Mercado about this. I have not spoken anybody campaign about this. I had no meaningful contact with anybody in Liccardo campaign since I made my donation at the end of December.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>He said, you know, I have no idea how this is going to turn out. I’m really just interested in making sure that all the votes are counted. And something he talked about was he didn’t want any candidate to win the seat with like a plurality of votes. I mean, you could end up in a scenario with three candidates. Maybe someone gets, you know, in the high 30s and they can still win the seat.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>This is a really important seat. There’s no term limits. You can have this for decades. So it’s almost like, should it really be up to less than a majority of voters to make this decision? That’s his story. I mean, he is very involved in politics. It’s hard to believe there’s no political inklings or no kind of political motivations at all in here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>But that’s what Padilla said. He said he’s not getting anything out of this personally other than, you know, supporting democracy. And the Carlos campaign has said, we have nothing to do with this. We you know, we’re completely not involved. We’re happy to see the votes get counted. But we’re not involved with this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How much is this costing Jonathan Padilla?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It’s not just Padilla. There’s this whole outside organization called Count the Vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonathan Padilla: \u003c/strong>And we’re a concern group of citizens that are acting with every intent to follow, every FEC guideline and law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It could be well over $200,000 when all is said and done, because the amount each county is charging is $12,000 a day. And literally, like I’ve seen the checks, they have to write a $12,000 check each day and give it to the registrar. And then that’s how the work goes forward for that day with a recount. Like you have to see it all the way through. If at any point they start making the payments, then the whole recount stops.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And even if there were votes that were changed, none of it counts. There have been calls, you know, from Anna. Sue currently holds the seat. She wants them to release their donors. Who’s actually funding the recount? There have been a complaint filed with federal election regulators by a group of lawyers in Santa Clara County who have said, Sam Liccardo is really behind this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>This needs to be investigated what kind of coordination he has with this recount group. So there have been a lot of critiques hurled that Padilla’s way. And until we get more of the information about donations, what we know now is Padilla is someone who has supported Liccardo in the past, but there’s no smoking gun, you know, between the Liccardo campaign and Padilla.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So you have Padilla and Liccardo basically saying, we’re not in this together, and you have Evan Lowe saying, yeah, you are. Where’s Joe Simitian and all this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>You know, Joe Simitian has not gone into the fray in this kind of back and forth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Simitian: \u003c/strong>Eventually the process will work itself out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>He’s kind of said, I want to see this play out. And it’s actually kind of been a good look for him. I would have to say, you know, in this race where you have this mudslinging back and forth, when I’ve asked him his reaction to all these developments, he said, look, I just want to thank the election workers and we’ll see how this process plays out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Simitian: \u003c/strong>I’ll just politics at this point. And, my job is to stay focused on how I can best represent the folks in our district. That’s really my reaction.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What do you make of the rhetoric here in this debate over the recount guy between all the candidates involved? And it just seems very heated, like, why does it matter to the average voter what arguments these people are slinging around?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I think there’s definitely room for self-reflection on a lot of sides, in kind of how the rhetoric has escalated since this recount started. You had Evan Lowe’s campaign when the recount was announced, accused PDA of taking a page out of Trump’s playbook, attacking democracy, subverting the will of voters. I mean, ultimately, we’re counting ballots like the will of the voters will either be confirmed or newly illuminated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And then you also had Padilla, who said, you know, the fact that there was ballots challenge. He called it a travesty. He said the ballots were discovered. He said there was special interest influencing, you know, the election work going on in San Mateo County. Even when I asked him, like what specifically you’re talking about? He didn’t really have an answer. So I’m not trying to be the language police here, but like just taking a step back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>These are all Democrats. I know all these folks were appalled by, you know, former President Trump’s attempts to overturn the results of the election, appalled by ideas like fake, fake electors. And I think if every bit of election gamesmanship becomes Trumpian, if it becomes undermining democracy, then it all might just be noise to voters when someone is actually trying to threaten democracy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, what’s next here, guy? What’s the timeline for this? When can we know the new results?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>By the end of this week. Santa Clara County election officials are confident they can wrap this up. Adjudicate all those, you know, challenge ballots, finish running everything through the machine and have a result. It might be even sooner in San Mateo County just because it’s there’s fewer votes there. So I think, you know, by the end of this week, we could know who’s actually going to the general election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, as a politics reporter, I’m curious what big questions you’re left with from this situation. I mean, one thing I’m thinking about is that not any average person maybe has $200,000 lying around if they want a recount. Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And that’s, you know, what Padilla has actually been. That’s one of the things he’s been talking about a lot is like, why should it come to this that I have to put together this money to make the recount happen? At the local level, there are automatic recount laws. And so I wonder if this is, you know, going to kind of spur a conversation about maybe having a state law that triggers an automatic recount at some point.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I mean, like I said, there’s in any election, there’s going to be votes where you have kind of a 5050, you know, should this vote be counted, what’s the voters intent? But in the grand scheme of things, they don’t really matter. But if you have a race like this where it’s tied, maybe that’s the impetus that could lead to some changes. Could lead to a state mandatory recount law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Guy, thank you so much as always.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>My pleasure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Guy Marzorati, politics and government correspondent for KQED. This 26 minute conversation with Guy was cut down and edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. Ellie Prickett-Morgan is our intern.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>They scored this episode and added up the tape. Music courtesy of First Come Music Audio Network and Universal Production Music. The Bay is a production of listener supported KQED in San Francisco. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, thanks so much for listening. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"In this episode of The Bay, we talk about the unprecedented tie in California's 16th Congressional district election.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713982999,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":66,"wordCount":3374},"headData":{"title":"Silicon Valley House Seat Race Gets a Recount | KQED","description":"In this episode of The Bay, we talk about the unprecedented tie in California's 16th Congressional district election.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Silicon Valley House Seat Race Gets a Recount","datePublished":"2024-04-24T10:00:41.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-24T18:23:19.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/G6C7C3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC1324653751.mp3?updated=1713902542","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983830/silicon-valley-house-seat-race-gets-a-recount","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp class=\"p1\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ballots are being recounted in the race for California’s 16th Congressional house seat, which ended in a tie for second between Assemblymember Evan Low and Santa Clara County Supervisor Joe Simitian. One or both of them will move on to face former San Jose Mayor Sam Liccardo in November.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>KQED’s Guy Marzorati explains how the recount is working, and why it’s gotten a little ugly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC1324653751&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to the Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. Election workers are recounting ballots in Silicon Valley after the race for California’s 16th congressional district seat ended. In a mind blowing tie, Assembly member Evan Lo and Santa Clara County Supervisor Joe Simitian both got second place, after each winning exactly 30,249 votes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It took just such a insane confluence of events to even end up here. I mean, all the candidates have talked about, like, people coming up to them. I’m really sorry, I have to admit. Like, I didn’t cast a ballot like you. Could have been the difference today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>KQED politics and government correspondent Guy Marzorati explains how the recount is going and why it’s gotten a little ugly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>So this is a district that stretches from Pacifica down through San Mateo County into Santa Clara County, Palo Alto, Mountain View, parts of San Jose all the way to Los Gatos. It’s been represented for about 30 years by Anna Eshoo. She decided last year she’s not going to run for another term. And so this opened up this really wild primary that’s gotten even more interesting recently.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Right. And can you just remind us to who are the players in this election?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So there was a lot of players in the primary. You could have made a football team out of it. There’s 11 candidates, running, but three ones who were the front runners, kind of from the beginning. And that was former mayor of San Jose, Sam Liccardo. Evan Lowe, a state assembly member, and Joe Simitian, who’s currently a Santa Clara County supervisor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Those three, I guess we’re kind of the favorites going in, but there’s a lot of money spent more than $5 million by campaigns in the primary there, as millions more by outside groups just trying to get, you know, candidates names out there. But ultimately those were the, you know, top three finishers in the primary.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Remind us of this very crazy, unlikely. Everything that happened in terms of the results of this race, there were actually two runner ups who were basically caught up in a tie. Like, what are even the odds of that happening?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I’m I’m not a math person, but this you would need one of those massive calculators where they’re like front of it kind of ramps up at the end to figure this out. Basically. Yeah. Liccardo won the primary. He got a little bit more than 38,000 votes. And then Lo and Simeon each ended with 30,249 votes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I mean, it’s just like the chances of that happening and the vote counts were coming in all through the month of March. People were, you know, following it. They would go back and forth. One person would lead the next day, then it would switch. But that’s where they ended up. And what that means is both Simitian and Lo advance of the general election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I know we have a top two primary, but the rules and the top two primaries, if there is a tie for a second, all three candidates, would advance for a general election, which is just incredibly rare. That only happened one time in the state history since we switched to a top two primary, and in this case, the first time where you’d have three Democrats on the ballot in the general election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So this tie that we’re talking about between Evan Lo and Joe Simitian did that, then automatically trigger a recount.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Now, that’s what’s crazy is there is no automatic recount. In this race, that is the law for some local races, like in Santa Clara County and a local race, if it’s within 25 votes, it doesn’t even have to be tied though automatically to a recount. But in this case, there is no automatic recount.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>This is a federal race that stretches across two different counties, and it’s up to a voter to actually come forward and start the recount process. So in this case, you know, once the vote was certified in early April, there was a five day window where any voter could come forward and request a recount as long as they can pay for the recount themselves, then the recount can go forward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>The first place we were looking was would the campaigns be interested in doing this? But both Evan Lowe and Joe Simeon were like, you know what? We’re good. Like, let’s just run it back in in November and see what happens. But then someone did come forward. Jonathan Padilla, who requested a recount in both of the counties and got this process started.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How then, does a recount work? Exactly?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>What literally what’s happening is the ballots are being run back through the machine with the extra added element of PDA has requested to view a lot of election materials and ballots that were not counted the first time around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And what are those ballots you’re referring to? Ballots that weren’t counted.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So this can, you know, range a lot of different ways, but how it’s actually played out so far in this recount is ballots relating to conditional voters. So if you’re someone who shows up to vote but is not registered even up to Election Day in California, you can just register on the spot and cast a, conditional on a provisional ballot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>How that works is you fill out your information, you attest to the fact that you’re a citizen, that you’re 18 years old, that you’re not voting elsewhere, and then the registrar will go and double check all that information and ultimately count your ballot or not. In this case on the form, there was a box that needed to be checked. Just declare I’m a US citizen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>There was also a signature field to say I’m a citizen, I’m 18, etc. in many of these ballots that are being challenged, the voters signed it but did not check that box and so the registrar did not count their ballots. We don’t know which way the voters voted in this race, but the registrar didn’t even go through the process of actually counting that vote. And so Padilla and his lawyers are challenging that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And this is just a very, very small number of ballots. Right. But when we’re talking about a tie, they maybe matter a lot. Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Only takes one. I mean, I think that’s definitely something to drive home in this case. In any election you’re going to look at, there might be a handful of votes that are kind of judgment calls. Maybe it’s a voter marked a certain choice, cross it out and marked another one. In this case, election workers literally review those. Those ballots go on like dual screens and two election workers view them and kind of make their determination.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>But those are kind of judgment calls trying to figure out, okay, what is this voter’s intent. And so in this case, you have, at least in Santa Clara County, about two dozen ballots that have been challenged. You have about a dozen more in San Mateo County, but that’s in the grand scheme of thousands and thousands of votes. So it’s not as if we’re finding a whole different result. But as you say, it only takes one vote to actually change what we’re all watching in this race.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Coming up, we’ll talk about who requested the recount and why. Some folks in the South Bay are suspicious of him. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Okay, so anyone can initiate a recount as long as you basically have the money to to fund it. But in this case, it’s even more interesting, in part because of who requested it and what we know of his background. Tell me a little bit more about who exactly this guy is, Jonathan Padilla.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So here’s where things I think pivot from, like schoolhouse Rock to something a little more spicy. Jonathan Padilla actually used to work for Sam Liccardo. He was the finance director when Liccardo ran for mayor of San Jose in 2014. He contributed to Lakatos campaign last year. He told me like, that’s the last contact he’s had with the campaign from then D.A., someone who stayed politically involved.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Even though he’s a tech entrepreneur, he doesn’t necessarily work in politics, is his day job. He’s been involved in politics. So when it was discovered this is the guy who is requesting the recount. That’s when questions started. Why is he doing this? Is there some advantage that he is looking for for Liccardo by requesting this recount?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Perhaps he wants a field to be narrowed to just two candidates. So that’s when the questions started to come in. And like, you know, what’s the political motivation behind going ahead with this process? You’ve heard a lot of critiques from Evan Lo’s campaign. They’ve even called him like a lackey for Sam Liccardo. They’re basically like, you’re doing Sam Liccardo bidding in this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah. Well, what do we know about that? Why is he spending money to do this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>This is what I’ve been trying to figure out for weeks. Padilla came out and said, you know, I just want to have all the votes counted.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonathan Padilla: \u003c/strong>My positions have been super clear. We should count every single vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I’ve been DMing with him like trying to get more information. Finally, earlier this week, he agreed to to chat on the phone, and he’s kind of stuck by this story that he is not doing this in any kind of coordination with Liccardo.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonathan Padilla: \u003c/strong>This is about counting all the ballots. I have not spoken Mercado about this. I have not spoken anybody campaign about this. I had no meaningful contact with anybody in Liccardo campaign since I made my donation at the end of December.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>He said, you know, I have no idea how this is going to turn out. I’m really just interested in making sure that all the votes are counted. And something he talked about was he didn’t want any candidate to win the seat with like a plurality of votes. I mean, you could end up in a scenario with three candidates. Maybe someone gets, you know, in the high 30s and they can still win the seat.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>This is a really important seat. There’s no term limits. You can have this for decades. So it’s almost like, should it really be up to less than a majority of voters to make this decision? That’s his story. I mean, he is very involved in politics. It’s hard to believe there’s no political inklings or no kind of political motivations at all in here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>But that’s what Padilla said. He said he’s not getting anything out of this personally other than, you know, supporting democracy. And the Carlos campaign has said, we have nothing to do with this. We you know, we’re completely not involved. We’re happy to see the votes get counted. But we’re not involved with this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How much is this costing Jonathan Padilla?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It’s not just Padilla. There’s this whole outside organization called Count the Vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jonathan Padilla: \u003c/strong>And we’re a concern group of citizens that are acting with every intent to follow, every FEC guideline and law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It could be well over $200,000 when all is said and done, because the amount each county is charging is $12,000 a day. And literally, like I’ve seen the checks, they have to write a $12,000 check each day and give it to the registrar. And then that’s how the work goes forward for that day with a recount. Like you have to see it all the way through. If at any point they start making the payments, then the whole recount stops.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And even if there were votes that were changed, none of it counts. There have been calls, you know, from Anna. Sue currently holds the seat. She wants them to release their donors. Who’s actually funding the recount? There have been a complaint filed with federal election regulators by a group of lawyers in Santa Clara County who have said, Sam Liccardo is really behind this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>This needs to be investigated what kind of coordination he has with this recount group. So there have been a lot of critiques hurled that Padilla’s way. And until we get more of the information about donations, what we know now is Padilla is someone who has supported Liccardo in the past, but there’s no smoking gun, you know, between the Liccardo campaign and Padilla.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So you have Padilla and Liccardo basically saying, we’re not in this together, and you have Evan Lowe saying, yeah, you are. Where’s Joe Simitian and all this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>You know, Joe Simitian has not gone into the fray in this kind of back and forth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Simitian: \u003c/strong>Eventually the process will work itself out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>He’s kind of said, I want to see this play out. And it’s actually kind of been a good look for him. I would have to say, you know, in this race where you have this mudslinging back and forth, when I’ve asked him his reaction to all these developments, he said, look, I just want to thank the election workers and we’ll see how this process plays out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Joe Simitian: \u003c/strong>I’ll just politics at this point. And, my job is to stay focused on how I can best represent the folks in our district. That’s really my reaction.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What do you make of the rhetoric here in this debate over the recount guy between all the candidates involved? And it just seems very heated, like, why does it matter to the average voter what arguments these people are slinging around?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I think there’s definitely room for self-reflection on a lot of sides, in kind of how the rhetoric has escalated since this recount started. You had Evan Lowe’s campaign when the recount was announced, accused PDA of taking a page out of Trump’s playbook, attacking democracy, subverting the will of voters. I mean, ultimately, we’re counting ballots like the will of the voters will either be confirmed or newly illuminated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And then you also had Padilla, who said, you know, the fact that there was ballots challenge. He called it a travesty. He said the ballots were discovered. He said there was special interest influencing, you know, the election work going on in San Mateo County. Even when I asked him, like what specifically you’re talking about? He didn’t really have an answer. So I’m not trying to be the language police here, but like just taking a step back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>These are all Democrats. I know all these folks were appalled by, you know, former President Trump’s attempts to overturn the results of the election, appalled by ideas like fake, fake electors. And I think if every bit of election gamesmanship becomes Trumpian, if it becomes undermining democracy, then it all might just be noise to voters when someone is actually trying to threaten democracy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, what’s next here, guy? What’s the timeline for this? When can we know the new results?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>By the end of this week. Santa Clara County election officials are confident they can wrap this up. Adjudicate all those, you know, challenge ballots, finish running everything through the machine and have a result. It might be even sooner in San Mateo County just because it’s there’s fewer votes there. So I think, you know, by the end of this week, we could know who’s actually going to the general election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, as a politics reporter, I’m curious what big questions you’re left with from this situation. I mean, one thing I’m thinking about is that not any average person maybe has $200,000 lying around if they want a recount. Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And that’s, you know, what Padilla has actually been. That’s one of the things he’s been talking about a lot is like, why should it come to this that I have to put together this money to make the recount happen? At the local level, there are automatic recount laws. And so I wonder if this is, you know, going to kind of spur a conversation about maybe having a state law that triggers an automatic recount at some point.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I mean, like I said, there’s in any election, there’s going to be votes where you have kind of a 5050, you know, should this vote be counted, what’s the voters intent? But in the grand scheme of things, they don’t really matter. But if you have a race like this where it’s tied, maybe that’s the impetus that could lead to some changes. Could lead to a state mandatory recount law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Guy, thank you so much as always.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>My pleasure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Guy Marzorati, politics and government correspondent for KQED. This 26 minute conversation with Guy was cut down and edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. Ellie Prickett-Morgan is our intern.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>They scored this episode and added up the tape. Music courtesy of First Come Music Audio Network and Universal Production Music. The Bay is a production of listener supported KQED in San Francisco. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, thanks so much for listening. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983830/silicon-valley-house-seat-race-gets-a-recount","authors":["8654","227","11898","11649"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_33812","news_17968","news_33982","news_353","news_22598"],"featImg":"news_11922004","label":"news"},"news_11983752":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983752","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983752","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"nurses-warn-patient-safety-at-risk-as-ai-use-spreads-in-health-care","title":"Nurses Warn Patient Safety at Risk as AI Use Spreads in Health Care","publishDate":1713832725,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Nurses Warn Patient Safety at Risk as AI Use Spreads in Health Care | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>As the use of artificial intelligence proliferates in the health care industry, Bay Area unionized nurses call for greater transparency and say in how the technologies are deployed to minimize risks to patients.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At a protest on Monday outside of Kaiser Permanente’s San Francisco Medical Center, many in the estimated crowd of about 200 members of the California Nurses Association held red signs that read “Patients are not algorithms” and “Trust nurses, not AI.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“All health care corporations need to make sure that the technology is tested, it’s valid, and it’s not harmful to patients,” said Michelle Gutierrez Vo, a president at CNA, representing 24,000 nurses at Kaiser Permanente. “And before they deploy it, they need to sit down with nurses so that the nurses can review and make sure it’s congruent with patient safety.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983730\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983730\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"A woman wearing sun glasses and a red shirt holds a microphone in front of people while she stands behind a podium with a red sign in the background.\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-2048x1366.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Michelle Gutierrez Vo, a registered nurse at Kaiser Permanente Medical Center in Fremont and a California Nurses Association president, speaks during a rally alongside fellow nurses from across California at Kaiser Permanente on Geary Blvd in San Francisco on April 22, 2024, to advocate for patient safety in the face of artificial intelligence technology. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Gutierrez Vo and other nurses worry that without proper oversight and accountability, health care employers will use AI to replace nurses and other medical professionals for profit, to the detriment of patient care. The nurses are calling for health care organizations to hit pause on the rollout of new AI technologies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This comes as state and federal regulators race to catch up with the explosive growth of generative AI tools, which experts say also have great potential to improve health care delivery.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=\"news_11976097,news_11980719,news_11982218\" label=\"Related Stories\"]Kaiser Permanente, one of the largest employers in San Francisco, Alameda and other Bay Area counties, has been an early adopter of AI. Company officials \u003ca href=\"https://about.kaiserpermanente.org/news/fostering-responsible-ai-in-health-care\">have said\u003c/a> they rigorously test the tools they use for safety, accuracy and equity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Our physicians and care teams are always at the center of decision-making with our patients,” a Kaiser Permanente statement said in response to a KQED request for comment. “We believe that AI may be able to help our physicians and employees and enhance our members’ experience. As an organization dedicated to inclusiveness and health equity, we ensure the results from AI tools are correct and unbiased; AI does not replace human assessment.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One program in use at 21 Kaiser hospitals in Northern California is the Advance Alert Monitor, which analyzes electronic health data to notify a nursing team when a patient’s health is at risk of serious decline. The program saves about 500 lives per year, according to the company.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983733\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983733\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-scaled.jpg\" alt='Many people dressed in scrubs hold red signs that say \"Trust Nurses Not AI\" in the street.' width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-2048x1366.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Nurses from across California rally at Kaiser Permanente on Geary Blvd in San Francisco on April 22, 2024, to advocate for patient safety in the face of artificial intelligence technology. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>But Gutierrez Vo said nurses have flagged problems with the tool, such as producing inaccurate alarms or failing to detect all patients whose health is quickly deteriorating.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s just so much buzz right now that this is the future of health care. These health care corporations are using this as a shortcut, as a way to handle patient load. And we’re saying ‘No. You cannot do that without making sure these systems are safe,’” said Gutierrez Vo, a nurse with 25 years of experience at the company’s Fremont Adult Family Medicine clinic. “Our patients are not lab rats.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has authorized some AI-generated services before they go to market, but mostly \u003ca href=\"https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/28/ai-doctors-healthcare-regulation-00124051\">without the comprehensive data\u003c/a> required for new medicines. Last fall, President Joe Biden issued an \u003ca class=\"c-link\" href=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2023/10/30/executive-order-on-the-safe-secure-and-trustworthy-development-and-use-of-artificial-intelligence/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" data-stringify-link=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2023/10/30/executive-order-on-the-safe-secure-and-trustworthy-development-and-use-of-artificial-intelligence/\" data-sk=\"tooltip_parent\">executive order\u003c/a> on the safe use of AI, which includes a directive to develop policies for AI-enabled technologies in health services that promote “the welfare of patients and workers.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s very good to have open discussions because the technology is moving at such a fast pace, and everyone is at a different level of understanding of what it can do and [what] it is,” said Dr. Ashish Atreja, Chief Information and Digital Health Officer at UC Davis Health. “Many health systems and organizations do have guardrails in place, but perhaps they haven’t been shared that widely. That’s why there’s a knowledge gap.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983727\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983727\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"A woman wearing sun glasses and a red shirt stands in a crowd with red signs in the background.\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-2048x1366.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sandra Larkin listens to speakers alongside fellow nurses from across California during a rally at Kaiser Permanente on Geary Blvd in San Francisco on April 22, 2024, to advocate for patient safety in the face of artificial intelligence technology. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>UC Davis Health is part of a \u003ca href=\"https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/headlines/uc-davis-health-and-leading-health-systems-launch-valid-ai/2023/10\">collaboration\u003c/a> with other health systems to implement generative and other types of AI with what Atreja referred to as “intentionality” to support their workforce and improve patient care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We have this mission that no patient, no clinician, no researcher, no employee gets left behind in getting advantage from the latest technologies,” Atreja said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dr. Robert Pearl, a lecturer at the Stanford Graduate Business School and a former CEO of The Permanente Medical Group (Kaiser Permanente), told KQED he agreed with the nurses’ concerns about the use of AI at their workplace.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Generative AI is a threatening technology but also a positive one. What is the best for the patient? That has to be the number one concern,” said Pearl, author of “ChatGPT, MD: How AI-Empowered Patients & Doctors Can Take Back Control of American Medicine,” which he said he co-wrote with the AI system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m optimistic about what it can do for patients,” he said. “I often tell people that generative AI is like the iPhone. It’s not going away.”\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"At a protest in San Francisco, nurses say health care employers must ensure the artificial intelligence tools they use do not harm patients.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713834971,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":19,"wordCount":1003},"headData":{"title":"Nurses Warn Patient Safety at Risk as AI Use Spreads in Health Care | KQED","description":"At a protest in San Francisco, nurses say health care employers must ensure the artificial intelligence tools they use do not harm patients.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Nurses Warn Patient Safety at Risk as AI Use Spreads in Health Care","datePublished":"2024-04-23T00:38:45.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-23T01:16:11.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983752/nurses-warn-patient-safety-at-risk-as-ai-use-spreads-in-health-care","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>As the use of artificial intelligence proliferates in the health care industry, Bay Area unionized nurses call for greater transparency and say in how the technologies are deployed to minimize risks to patients.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At a protest on Monday outside of Kaiser Permanente’s San Francisco Medical Center, many in the estimated crowd of about 200 members of the California Nurses Association held red signs that read “Patients are not algorithms” and “Trust nurses, not AI.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“All health care corporations need to make sure that the technology is tested, it’s valid, and it’s not harmful to patients,” said Michelle Gutierrez Vo, a president at CNA, representing 24,000 nurses at Kaiser Permanente. “And before they deploy it, they need to sit down with nurses so that the nurses can review and make sure it’s congruent with patient safety.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983730\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983730\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"A woman wearing sun glasses and a red shirt holds a microphone in front of people while she stands behind a podium with a red sign in the background.\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-2048x1366.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-33-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Michelle Gutierrez Vo, a registered nurse at Kaiser Permanente Medical Center in Fremont and a California Nurses Association president, speaks during a rally alongside fellow nurses from across California at Kaiser Permanente on Geary Blvd in San Francisco on April 22, 2024, to advocate for patient safety in the face of artificial intelligence technology. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Gutierrez Vo and other nurses worry that without proper oversight and accountability, health care employers will use AI to replace nurses and other medical professionals for profit, to the detriment of patient care. The nurses are calling for health care organizations to hit pause on the rollout of new AI technologies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This comes as state and federal regulators race to catch up with the explosive growth of generative AI tools, which experts say also have great potential to improve health care delivery.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"news_11976097,news_11980719,news_11982218","label":"Related Stories "},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Kaiser Permanente, one of the largest employers in San Francisco, Alameda and other Bay Area counties, has been an early adopter of AI. Company officials \u003ca href=\"https://about.kaiserpermanente.org/news/fostering-responsible-ai-in-health-care\">have said\u003c/a> they rigorously test the tools they use for safety, accuracy and equity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Our physicians and care teams are always at the center of decision-making with our patients,” a Kaiser Permanente statement said in response to a KQED request for comment. “We believe that AI may be able to help our physicians and employees and enhance our members’ experience. As an organization dedicated to inclusiveness and health equity, we ensure the results from AI tools are correct and unbiased; AI does not replace human assessment.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One program in use at 21 Kaiser hospitals in Northern California is the Advance Alert Monitor, which analyzes electronic health data to notify a nursing team when a patient’s health is at risk of serious decline. The program saves about 500 lives per year, according to the company.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983733\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983733\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-scaled.jpg\" alt='Many people dressed in scrubs hold red signs that say \"Trust Nurses Not AI\" in the street.' width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-2048x1366.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-02-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Nurses from across California rally at Kaiser Permanente on Geary Blvd in San Francisco on April 22, 2024, to advocate for patient safety in the face of artificial intelligence technology. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>But Gutierrez Vo said nurses have flagged problems with the tool, such as producing inaccurate alarms or failing to detect all patients whose health is quickly deteriorating.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s just so much buzz right now that this is the future of health care. These health care corporations are using this as a shortcut, as a way to handle patient load. And we’re saying ‘No. You cannot do that without making sure these systems are safe,’” said Gutierrez Vo, a nurse with 25 years of experience at the company’s Fremont Adult Family Medicine clinic. “Our patients are not lab rats.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has authorized some AI-generated services before they go to market, but mostly \u003ca href=\"https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/28/ai-doctors-healthcare-regulation-00124051\">without the comprehensive data\u003c/a> required for new medicines. Last fall, President Joe Biden issued an \u003ca class=\"c-link\" href=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2023/10/30/executive-order-on-the-safe-secure-and-trustworthy-development-and-use-of-artificial-intelligence/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" data-stringify-link=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2023/10/30/executive-order-on-the-safe-secure-and-trustworthy-development-and-use-of-artificial-intelligence/\" data-sk=\"tooltip_parent\">executive order\u003c/a> on the safe use of AI, which includes a directive to develop policies for AI-enabled technologies in health services that promote “the welfare of patients and workers.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s very good to have open discussions because the technology is moving at such a fast pace, and everyone is at a different level of understanding of what it can do and [what] it is,” said Dr. Ashish Atreja, Chief Information and Digital Health Officer at UC Davis Health. “Many health systems and organizations do have guardrails in place, but perhaps they haven’t been shared that widely. That’s why there’s a knowledge gap.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11983727\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-scaled.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11983727\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"A woman wearing sun glasses and a red shirt stands in a crowd with red signs in the background.\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-2048x1366.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/04/240422-NursesAI-19-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sandra Larkin listens to speakers alongside fellow nurses from across California during a rally at Kaiser Permanente on Geary Blvd in San Francisco on April 22, 2024, to advocate for patient safety in the face of artificial intelligence technology. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>UC Davis Health is part of a \u003ca href=\"https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/headlines/uc-davis-health-and-leading-health-systems-launch-valid-ai/2023/10\">collaboration\u003c/a> with other health systems to implement generative and other types of AI with what Atreja referred to as “intentionality” to support their workforce and improve patient care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We have this mission that no patient, no clinician, no researcher, no employee gets left behind in getting advantage from the latest technologies,” Atreja said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dr. Robert Pearl, a lecturer at the Stanford Graduate Business School and a former CEO of The Permanente Medical Group (Kaiser Permanente), told KQED he agreed with the nurses’ concerns about the use of AI at their workplace.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Generative AI is a threatening technology but also a positive one. What is the best for the patient? That has to be the number one concern,” said Pearl, author of “ChatGPT, MD: How AI-Empowered Patients & Doctors Can Take Back Control of American Medicine,” which he said he co-wrote with the AI system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m optimistic about what it can do for patients,” he said. “I often tell people that generative AI is like the iPhone. It’s not going away.”\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983752/nurses-warn-patient-safety-at-risk-as-ai-use-spreads-in-health-care","authors":["8659"],"categories":["news_457","news_8","news_248"],"tags":["news_2114","news_28642","news_27626","news_18659","news_421","news_28963","news_30933"],"featImg":"news_11983729","label":"news"},"news_11983800":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11983800","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11983800","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"bill-to-curb-california-utilities-use-of-customer-money-fails-to-pass","title":"Bill to Curb California Utilities’ Use of Customer Money Fails to Pass","publishDate":1713898833,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Bill to Curb California Utilities’ Use of Customer Money Fails to Pass | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"news"},"content":"\u003cp>California lawmakers on Monday rejected a proposal aimed at cracking down on how some of the nation’s largest utilities spend customers’ money.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California’s investor-owned utilities can’t use money from customers to pay for things like advertising their brand or lobbying for legislation. Instead, they’re supposed to use money from private investors to pay for those things.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=\"news_11983675,news_11981173,news_11859064\" label=\"Related Stories\"]Consumer groups say utilities are finding ways around those rules. They accuse them of using money from customers to fund trade groups that lobby legislators and for TV ads disguised as public service announcements, including some recent ads by Pacific Gas & Electric.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A bill in the state Legislature would have expanded the definitions of prohibited advertising and political influence to include regulators’ decisions on rate-setting and franchises for electrical and gas corporations. It would also allow regulators to fine utilities that break the rules.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On Monday, the bill failed to pass a legislative committee for the second time in the face of intense opposition from utilities, including Pacific Gas & Electric.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’ve seen too many examples of the blatant misuse of ratepayer funds across the state,” said Democratic state Sen. Dave Min, who authored the bill that failed to pass on Monday. “I know that consumers are outraged by this.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>PG&E opposed the bill because it said it would take away the power of state regulators to examine utility companies’ costs and decide whether it is “just or reasonable″ for customers to pay for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Plus, PG&E lobbyist Brandon Ebeck said it’s appropriate for customers to pay for the company’s membership fees that go to various industry associations because they benefit customers. He noted that those groups coordinate emergency response and wildfire training. When the war in Ukraine started, the Edison Electric Institute — a national association representing investor-owned utilities — sought to find surplus equipment to be sent to Ukraine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s a lot of benefits to customers,” Ebeck said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill was part of a larger backlash against California’s rising electricity cost. Power is expensive in California partly because of the work required to maintain and upgrade electrical equipment to reduce the risk of wildfires in a state with long, dry summers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As rates have continued to climb, utilities like Pacific Gas & Electric, Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas & Electric have faced increasing scrutiny from consumer groups over how they spend the money they collect from customers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Matt Vespa, senior attorney at the environmental advocacy group Earthjustice, said Monday’s vote was “incredibly disappointing.” He said the current rules for utilities “incentivizes them to see what they can get away with.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As an example, Min and consumer groups noted PG&E spent up to $6 million in TV ads to tout its plan to bury power lines to reduce wildfire risk, which some consumer groups opposed because it \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/pge-rates-california-wildfires-99be6963a57b1f4812a056be93cec50f\">increased customers’ bills\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The ads first aired in 2022 and featured CEO Patti Poppe in a company-branded hard hat, saying the company is “transforming your hometown utility from the ground up.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The utility recorded the expenses for those ads as coming from a customer-funded account dedicated to reducing wildfire risk, as first reported by the \u003ca href=\"https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article287598875.html\">Sacramento Bee\u003c/a>. PG&E spokesperson Lynsey Paulo said the company has not yet asked regulators to review that expense. The California Public Utilities Commission will decide whether customer funds can pay for the ads.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Paulo noted state regulators allow utilities to use money from customers to pay for safety communications on television.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Our customers have told us they want to know how we are investing to improve safety and reliability,” Paulo said. “We also use digital and email communications, but some customers do not have internet or email access, so we use methods including television spots to communicate with all of our customers.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some consumer groups say the ads have crossed the line.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Only at PG&E would (Poppe’s) attempts at brand rehabilitation be considered a ‘safety message,’” said Mark Toney, executive director of the Utility Reform Network. “This blatant misuse of ratepayer funds is exactly why we need SB 938 and its clear rules and required disclosures for advertising costs.”\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"A crackdown on how California utilities spend customers' money has failed to pass the state Legislature. Investor-owned utilities aren't allowed to use money from customers to pay for things like advertising and lobbying. ","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713900574,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":21,"wordCount":756},"headData":{"title":"Bill to Curb California Utilities’ Use of Customer Money Fails to Pass | KQED","description":"A crackdown on how California utilities spend customers' money has failed to pass the state Legislature. Investor-owned utilities aren't allowed to use money from customers to pay for things like advertising and lobbying. ","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"Bill to Curb California Utilities’ Use of Customer Money Fails to Pass","datePublished":"2024-04-23T19:00:33.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-23T19:29:34.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}}},"sticky":false,"nprByline":"Adam Beam\u003cbr>The Associated Press\u003c/br>","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/news/11983800/bill-to-curb-california-utilities-use-of-customer-money-fails-to-pass","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>California lawmakers on Monday rejected a proposal aimed at cracking down on how some of the nation’s largest utilities spend customers’ money.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California’s investor-owned utilities can’t use money from customers to pay for things like advertising their brand or lobbying for legislation. Instead, they’re supposed to use money from private investors to pay for those things.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"news_11983675,news_11981173,news_11859064","label":"Related Stories "},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Consumer groups say utilities are finding ways around those rules. They accuse them of using money from customers to fund trade groups that lobby legislators and for TV ads disguised as public service announcements, including some recent ads by Pacific Gas & Electric.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A bill in the state Legislature would have expanded the definitions of prohibited advertising and political influence to include regulators’ decisions on rate-setting and franchises for electrical and gas corporations. It would also allow regulators to fine utilities that break the rules.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On Monday, the bill failed to pass a legislative committee for the second time in the face of intense opposition from utilities, including Pacific Gas & Electric.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’ve seen too many examples of the blatant misuse of ratepayer funds across the state,” said Democratic state Sen. Dave Min, who authored the bill that failed to pass on Monday. “I know that consumers are outraged by this.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>PG&E opposed the bill because it said it would take away the power of state regulators to examine utility companies’ costs and decide whether it is “just or reasonable″ for customers to pay for them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Plus, PG&E lobbyist Brandon Ebeck said it’s appropriate for customers to pay for the company’s membership fees that go to various industry associations because they benefit customers. He noted that those groups coordinate emergency response and wildfire training. When the war in Ukraine started, the Edison Electric Institute — a national association representing investor-owned utilities — sought to find surplus equipment to be sent to Ukraine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s a lot of benefits to customers,” Ebeck said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill was part of a larger backlash against California’s rising electricity cost. Power is expensive in California partly because of the work required to maintain and upgrade electrical equipment to reduce the risk of wildfires in a state with long, dry summers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As rates have continued to climb, utilities like Pacific Gas & Electric, Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas & Electric have faced increasing scrutiny from consumer groups over how they spend the money they collect from customers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Matt Vespa, senior attorney at the environmental advocacy group Earthjustice, said Monday’s vote was “incredibly disappointing.” He said the current rules for utilities “incentivizes them to see what they can get away with.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As an example, Min and consumer groups noted PG&E spent up to $6 million in TV ads to tout its plan to bury power lines to reduce wildfire risk, which some consumer groups opposed because it \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/pge-rates-california-wildfires-99be6963a57b1f4812a056be93cec50f\">increased customers’ bills\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The ads first aired in 2022 and featured CEO Patti Poppe in a company-branded hard hat, saying the company is “transforming your hometown utility from the ground up.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The utility recorded the expenses for those ads as coming from a customer-funded account dedicated to reducing wildfire risk, as first reported by the \u003ca href=\"https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article287598875.html\">Sacramento Bee\u003c/a>. PG&E spokesperson Lynsey Paulo said the company has not yet asked regulators to review that expense. The California Public Utilities Commission will decide whether customer funds can pay for the ads.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Paulo noted state regulators allow utilities to use money from customers to pay for safety communications on television.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Our customers have told us they want to know how we are investing to improve safety and reliability,” Paulo said. “We also use digital and email communications, but some customers do not have internet or email access, so we use methods including television spots to communicate with all of our customers.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some consumer groups say the ads have crossed the line.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Only at PG&E would (Poppe’s) attempts at brand rehabilitation be considered a ‘safety message,’” said Mark Toney, executive director of the Utility Reform Network. “This blatant misuse of ratepayer funds is exactly why we need SB 938 and its clear rules and required disclosures for advertising costs.”\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11983800/bill-to-curb-california-utilities-use-of-customer-money-fails-to-pass","authors":["byline_news_11983800"],"categories":["news_8"],"tags":["news_21973","news_1092","news_33611"],"featImg":"news_11722572","label":"news"},"news_11906451":{"type":"posts","id":"news_11906451","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"news","id":"11906451","found":true},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"the-landlords-game-who-has-the-power-to-evict","title":"The Landlord's Game: Who Has the Power to Evict?","publishDate":1646046063,"format":"audio","headTitle":"The Landlord’s Game: Who Has the Power to Evict? | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Getting evicted can hinder a renter’s ability to find stable housing for years afterward. And the capacity to evict gives landlords a lot of power over their tenants.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this episode of Sold Out, we explore when and why landlords decide to evict. We also look at how property ownership has shifted in recent years from largely small “mom and pop” landlords to an increasing number of investors and corporations — and what that means for tenants and our housing system.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch5 id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC9294160459&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/h5>\n\u003chr>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>THE LANDLORD’S GAME [TRANSCRIPT]\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Sounds: Birds whistling, gravel, road, someone walking)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN BALDASSARI, HOST\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s a warm fall day in Antioch, California, and Donna Ridge has spent the morning delivering eviction notices. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She’s the property manager for a local landlord, Kevin Davidson, and also one of his tenants. We gather around Donna’s small kitchen table. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Sounds: Papers being shuffled)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA RIDGE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, you got some three-day-notices.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN DAVIDSON\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kevin owns around 100 apartments spread across 15 buildings in the San Francisco Bay Area. And California’s eviction moratorium had just expired about a month earlier. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Sounds: The reporter, Erin, is talking to Donna and Kevin in person)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How many do you have?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Total? I don’t know. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have three here.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Can’t count that high.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You got three, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY SOLOMON, HOST\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kevin says that during the pandemic, about a third of his tenants stopped paying rent at one point or another. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some of these tenants are really good tenants. They didn’t deliberately get behind, but when they did, I mean, bills still have to be paid, you know? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music in)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Most tenants who fell behind received rent relief. But for some, it didn’t cover everything they owed.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They gotta start paying. Once rent relief has paid up their part, then they gotta pay their part and if they don’t pay, then …\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They get noticed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They get a notice.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Each tenant was struggling for a different reason. One guy told Donna he gave his rent money to his roommate, the leaseholder. But the leaseholder wasn’t paying rent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s not my problem. My problem is that you need to pay your rent, and you need to pay it on time like everybody else does. You know? That’s the way it works.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another tenant stopped paying rent at the beginning of the pandemic. And while the state had given her the maximum amount of rent relief, she still owed more.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now this woman here, we’ll probably have to end up evicting her.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Donna says the tenant had just started going back to work. But then her son ended up in the hospital. Understandably difficult, but by this point Donna had been trying to get her rent money for a year and a half.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She’s got excuse after excuse. Basically, I think she bit off more than she could chew, is what it is. Now she says she doesn’t want to move at all, and I said, “Well, then you better start paying rent.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> With the eviction notices delivered, Kevin has a decision to make. He could work out a deal and maybe come up with a payment plan so his tenants could catch up on missed rent. Or he could file an eviction lawsuit.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If he does file a lawsuit, his tenant could have as little as five days to find a new place to live — no easy task with rents that just keep rising. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s really a tight rental market right now, so these guys would be smart to pay their rent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music out)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Sold Out theme song begins.)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All landlords have the power to evict. But they don’t all wield that power in the same way. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ve learned it depends a lot on who\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">the landlord is — and that’s\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">changing. Large corporations are scooping up more rental properties, and as they do, their relationship with tenants becomes less personal and more profit-driven. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Molly Solomon.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And I’m Erin Baldassari. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">From KQED, you’re listening to Sold Out: Rethinking Housing in America. This season, we’re talking about evictions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Coming up: The business of being a landlord — and when it pays to evict. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Sold Out theme song ends.)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11839127\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 657px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11839127\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/09/SOLD-OUT-Web-Banners__Tune-In_656x336.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"657\" height=\"337\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/09/SOLD-OUT-Web-Banners__Tune-In_656x336.png 657w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/09/SOLD-OUT-Web-Banners__Tune-In_656x336-160x82.png 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 657px) 100vw, 657px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">KQED’s podcast Sold Out looks at the history of and solutions to California’s housing crisis. \u003ccite>(KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To understand how landlords make decisions about evictions, it helps to know why they got into the business. When I asked Kevin, he said he sort of fell into it. He started working as a property manager to help pay his way through college.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Sounds: Highways, cars driving nearby, street sounds)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I kind of learned the business a little bit, and I saw the people that were the owners and they seem to be doing pretty good. So I figure that, you know, long term, this would be a good thing to do.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> He bought his first rental property — a single-family home — around 40 years ago, while still holding down a day job at an oil refinery. A few years later, he bought a triplex.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I had just gone from there. What happens is property goes up, you refinance it, buy another. Two properties go up, you refinance it and buy another.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, he doesn’t need a day job. And he’s not what you’d call a mom-and-pop landlord. He’s bigger than that — more of a mid-sized investor. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For the most part, my main investment is real estate.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s done well. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Erin laughs.)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, it’s done well.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s not all profit, though. He says the maintenance, mortgages, property taxes and insurance cost about 65 to 70% of what he gets in rent. The rest he keeps.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So your profit margin’s somewhere around 30, 35%.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Most of Kevin’s properties are on the eastern edge of the Bay Area. They’re in low-income neighborhoods. Even if it seems counterintuitive, he says that’s where you get a bigger bang for your buck.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And studies back that up. Researchers from Princeton and MIT found that on average, landlords in low-income neighborhoods took home\u003c/span> \u003ca href=\"https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/701697?mobileUi=0#_i9\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">double the profit\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, compared to landlords in wealthy neighborhoods.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s because they have lower mortgages and property taxes. And despite living in worse neighborhoods, tenants pay about the same in rent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music in)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Kevin’s business model of specializing in low-income neighborhoods doesn’t always work out — for him or his tenants. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He co-owns an RV park and marina in Bethel Island, a small town more than an hour’s drive from San Francisco. County officials there have labeled it a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/02/09/dozens-to-be-evicted-in-messy-battle-over-illegal-east-bay-rv-park/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">public nuisance\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Officials say it was never properly permitted to begin with — even though people had been living there before Kevin and his business partner bought the place back in 2004.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The county and the owners reached a stalemate over how to bring the place up to code. So in November, the owners told the 30-or-so tenants they had to leave. But most had nowhere to go. They stayed and saw bad conditions get worse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The electricity was cut off in late January, shared bathrooms boarded up and trash service stopped. A few weeks later, a fire broke out in one of the RVs, sending a woman to the hospital with severe burns. She had been using a propane heater to stay warm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The rents there are about as cheap as they get in the Bay Area, with people paying around $400 to $750 a month.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Deanna Hughes moved into a houseboat on the marina about a year ago. She says a lot of her neighbors survive on disability checks or social security. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DEANNA HUGHES\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is what they have, you know? Might not be the best place, but it’s a home. It’s a roof over their head. And where are they going to be when they don’t have this, you know? We have enough homeless people in the state of California, I think, without them adding to it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kevin says he feels bad for the long-term tenants who have lived there for years. But he felt like the situation had just spiraled too far out of control. And, he and his partner are now in the process of selling the property. But first, they have to get everyone out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music out)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kevin typically tries to avoid\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">evictions as much as possible. Because they’re expensive. Each time, he has to pay courts and legal services more than $500 in fees. It can cost even more if he has to hire a lawyer. He might go through that whole process only to end up working out a deal with the tenant at the courthouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, we don’t want them to leave. When they leave, they cost more money than it does if they just pay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked Kevin if he ever lowered someone’s rent, given the cost of evictions and turnover. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Sounds: Highway, cars on the road, air whistling)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Well, I don’t really do that much because word gets around. And so if you do it for one person, then you got to start doing it for other people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Usually, though, if one of his tenants is having trouble coming up with rent, it’s not Kevin they call, it’s his property manager, Donna.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I met up with her one day while she was making the rounds at Kevin’s properties. It was 100 degrees outside, and Donna was sweating under the afternoon sun. But she was still out there raking up debris.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Donna does all kinds of odd jobs for Kevin. On this particular day, there was a duck — a dead duck.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A dead duck? Oh, well, then let’s get that cleaned up then. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Who would do that? That’s disgusting. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She says there’s always something. As Donna repaired a fence, tenants driving by slowed down to wave or call out a quick hello. Others walked over to chat.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Sounds: A drill being operated, highway sounds, wind whistling)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>TENANT SPEAKING TO DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Annabele, she’s starting to stand up by herself now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, no, not already!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>TENANT\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, she’s going to start walking.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Donna, being friendly with the tenants is easy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And a lot of them say, you know, you’re so great to work with. They’re all, because you understand things, because I’m a tenant, too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In exchange for her work as property manager, Kevin pays Donna’s utility bills. He also bought the big white truck she drives around when she does maintenance on the properties. Those visits have another benefit, though — they help her keep tabs on folks who are behind on rent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You have your rent? You have your rent? She better have the rent. She owes last month’s, too. But see, we were working with her. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>JILLIAN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have it all. Just about.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Good girl.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>JILLIAN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ll be there.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Get it all, girl. See ya later. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Donna’s the buffer between Kevin and his tenants. She talks with them, tries to get a sense for why they’re behind, and she can help plead their case to Kevin. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, they’ll call me, and then I’ll call him. And he’ll either say, OK, that’s OK. Or, yeah, we’ll wait. Or he won’t. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked Kevin how he felt about serving evictions, knowing that an eviction judgment on your record makes it really hard to find another place to live.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I don’t like it. That’s why I talk to them. That’s why I try to set up payment plans. That’s why we give them every opportunity to pay. But if they don’t, then they can’t live there for free. So we go through with the eviction.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Kevin’s approach to evictions is pretty common. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/philipgarboden\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Philip Garboden\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> researches landlord behavior at the University of Hawaii.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>PHILIP GARBODEN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sometimes I feel like the sort of public discussion of eviction assumes that landlords love evicting tenants, right? But almost every landlord we talked to felt that actually evicting a tenant was a business failure and a significant business cost.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Most landlords who start the eviction process don’t actually follow through. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In a review of over \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://abell.org/sites/default/files/files/cd-justicediverted216.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">150,000 eviction notices in Baltimore\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, just under 5% resulted in a court-ordered eviction where a tenant was forced out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Phillip says even if tenants do end up staying, most landlords see real benefits from filing that first notice. Because it helps them \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://evictionlab.org/serial-eviction-filings/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">collect rent\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>PHILIP\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The goal of the eviction is to — what one landlord called the “first shot over the bow” — to show that tenant that if they don’t pay, there’s going to be severe consequences and those consequences are going to be backed up by the legal system. And those consequences will be lasting.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And there are other benefits for landlords.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>PHILIP\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many of our landlords explained to us that by filing, they recognize that a tenant is less likely to complain about property issues, right? Is much less likely to, you know, report a landlord.\u003c/span>\u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music in)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you owe someone money, it changes your relationship. You’re probably going to try to avoid them as much as possible. And if that person is your landlord, there’s an added layer of anxiety because your housing’s on the line.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>PHILIP\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And now all of a sudden you have a relationship where in order for that family to stay stably housed, they need to pay back their debt to a landlord. And the way that we treat people to whom we owe money is a fundamentally different social relationship, has fundamentally different power dynamics, than the way we treat people who we buy or rent things from. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Philip says eviction notices help landlords flex their power over their tenants. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But that power imbalance is\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> established much earlier, during the tenant-screening process.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>PHILIP\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Landlords have all the power to sort of give access to families or to deny access to families.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music out)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Kevin’s case, that screening process starts with Donna. She’s in charge of posting his apartments on Craigslist and sorting through applications.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We ask that they make double the rent, and they have the means to be able to support their children, like if the emergency happened, if they fell and broke an arm or leg or whatever, that they could handle that and the rent still, you know?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She says there’s one red flag they always look for. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mainly, no evictions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They make a few exceptions but most of the time, they pass. Because whatever the reason, it could happen again, and they don’t want to take that chance. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Philip says that’s the way a lot of landlords operate. And it makes sense: They want tenants who will pay rent on time. All this to say, if you have past evictions, a low income, bad credit, or kids, it can be very hard to find a landlord willing to rent you a home.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music in)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>PHILIP\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That becomes much more of this relationship of, you’re applying for admission, right? And the fewer resources, the lower income, the more income volatility that a particular family experiences, the stronger that power dynamic is.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This power imbalance between landlords and tenants, it’s nothing new. But in some cases, it’s growing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Coming up: What to expect when your landlord is a corporation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music out)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Sounds: Game pieces being thrown onto a game board, shuffling of objects)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIKA KELLY, EDITOR\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So everybody gets how much money? $1,500? I can’t remember what we start with.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I can’t remember what we start with.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, wow, I didn’t even know we started with that much. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Molly laughs.)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIKA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, you gotta be able to pay rent, you gotta be able to buy stuff.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s our editor, Erika Kelly. We all got together the other day for a game we all played as kids. You can probably guess what it is.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cb>MONOPOLY COMMERCIAL CIRCA 1981\u003c/b>\u003c/em>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To make it big, you’ve got to play the game. I’m Monopoly Game. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> For everyone who’s played Monopoly, you know the point of the game: Buy up all the properties and get as rich as possible. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIKA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, you want to bankrupt everybody else. If you don’t buy stuff, there’s no way to make money.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was pretty clear who was dominating the game.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: There’s not even even any $100 bills left in here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know, because Erika has them all. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIKA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They are all over here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(All three players laugh.)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music in)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But this version of the game we all know, that’s not the way the game was intended\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">to be played.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The original concept came from a woman named Lizzie Magie. Her version of the game \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/business/behind-monopoly-an-inventor-who-didnt-pass-go.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">came out in 1903\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a time when a lot of people really struggled to pay rent. And she wanted the game to be a cautionary tale. Not to glorify capitalism, but steer people away\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">from it. She called it: The Landlord’s Game.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music out)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In Magie’s version of the game, there were two ways to play: the version we know today, and one where everyone shared the profit. In real life, there are also different ways for landlords to play. Some just want a steady income. But increasingly, others are out to own the whole board. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Up until the late ‘80s, the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/1998/demo/h121-98-01.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">vast majority\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> of landlords owned fewer than five units — you know, mom and pops. That began to change as more midsized players, like Kevin, got into the game. And corporations\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">began buying more and more apartment buildings. Companies now own at least \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.census.gov/data-tools/demo/rhfs/#/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">two-thirds\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> of all apartment buildings nationwide. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And it’s not just apartments. According to the Census Bureau, nearly\u003c/span> \u003ca href=\"https://www.census.gov/data-tools/demo/rhfs/#/?s_type=1&s_tableName=TABLE2&s_byGroup1=3&s_filterGroup1=2\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">3 million single-family homes \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">are now owned by LLCs, LLPs or LPs — shell companies that mask the identity of the true owner. And each one of those houses has a tenant who pays rent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Neal Dennis III was one of those tenants. He’s a former security guard and a father of seven. In 2015, he and his family moved into a new home in Antioch. Two years later, Neal wasn’t getting as many hours at work, and bills began piling up. He and his wife had to make a choice.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>NEAL DENNIS III\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know PG&E was going up in the house. Water, garbage, you know, all that adds up so when you’re trying to divvy it out to everybody, somebody is going to get cut short sometimes. We need water, we need PG&E. Well, rent is going to be a little short this month.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For the first time, Neal was late paying rent. His landlord was Waypoint Homes. At the time, Neal had no idea the company owned more than \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20160105006880/en/Colony-Starwood-Homes-Announces-Closing-of-7.7-Billion-Merger-of-Starwood-Waypoint-Residential-Trust-with-Colony-American-Homes-Creating-the-Premier-Single-Family-REIT\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">23,000 homes across four states\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. When he fell behind, no one offered to get him on a payment plan. Instead …\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>NEAL\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think they filed within a week.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After not paying?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>NEAL\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> After not paying.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wow, that’s so quick. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>NEAL\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, it was quick.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Did anyone call you ahead of time? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>NEAL\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, we just got a letter in the mail, you know, and a letter on the door.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Neal couldn’t afford a lawyer who might’ve worked out a deal. So, he and his wife agreed to pay the back rent, and then packed up to leave.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We tried to track down Waypoint for comment, but the company \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://news.theregistrysf.com/gi-partners-sells-waypoint-portfolio-colony-starwood-815mm/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">no longer exists\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just a few months after Neal and his family were evicted, it was swallowed up in a string of consolidations by \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://news.theregistrysf.com/gi-partners-sells-waypoint-portfolio-colony-starwood-815mm/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">larger\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.housingwire.com/articles/41839-invitation-homes-starwood-waypoint-homes-merge-to-create-largest-single-family-landlord/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">larger\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> players, eventually merging with Invitation Homes — the country’s largest owner of single-family rentals. Today, they own more than \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://s28.q4cdn.com/264003623/files/doc_financials/2021/q4/Q4-2021-Supplemental_FINAL.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">81,000 across 12 states\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11906470\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"wp-image-11906470 size-medium\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/02/Invitation-Homes-Growth-800x545.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"545\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/02/Invitation-Homes-Growth-800x545.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/02/Invitation-Homes-Growth-1020x695.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/02/Invitation-Homes-Growth-160x109.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/02/Invitation-Homes-Growth-1536x1047.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/02/Invitation-Homes-Growth-2048x1396.jpg 2048w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/02/Invitation-Homes-Growth-1920x1308.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This graphic shows the growth of Invitation Homes over time and its mergers with other large single-family-home landlords. \u003ccite>(Graphic courtesy of Desiree Fields/UC Berkeley. Graphic by Manon Vergerio/independent researcher and Desiree Fields/UC Berkeley)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Their rapid growth is emblematic of a big shift towards corporate landlords. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://fcic-static.law.stanford.edu/cdn_media/fcic-reports/fcic_final_report_chapter22.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Millions of families lost their homes\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to foreclosure during the 2008 housing bust. And many of them became renters. New corporate landlords took advantage of dirt-cheap prices, buying up homes by the thousands. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/fieldsdesiree\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Desiree Fields\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> is a professor of geography and urban studies at the University of California in Berkeley. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music in) \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DESIREE FIELDS\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it is this huge loss of wealth at the household level that is what enables these players to get their start. So there’s something important there, right? This, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">like, v\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">ery direct transfer of wealth from Main Street to Wall Street.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Invitation Homes was founded in 2012 by Blackstone — one of the biggest private equity firms in the world. Invitation Homes CEO Dallas Tanner \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2cAVzYwnyo\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">recently told\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> the podcast RealWealth the fact that the company owns so many homes is a good thing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2cAVzYwnyo\">\u003cb>\u003cem>DALLAS TANNER ON REALWEALTH SHOW\u003c/em>\u003c/b>\u003c/a>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We can drive down the costs because of our economies of scale in terms of how we, you know, fit and finish your home, offer upgraded standards within a home, whether it’s kitchens, countertops, master bathrooms, whatever. And the law of large numbers really helps us create a better product at a more affordable price.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Those cost savings don’t appear to be passed on to tenants. Instead, they go to investors as profits. Invitation Homes increased rents \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://s28.q4cdn.com/264003623/files/doc_news/Q4-2021-Supplemental_Press-Release-FINAL.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">last year\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> by an average of 9%. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That translated into more than $260 million in profits paid out to shareholders.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The company capitalized on increased demand for single-family rentals during the pandemic. And they continued to buy up more homes, even amid sky-high prices.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DESIREE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They can kind of outcompete would-be-owner occupiers. And that, in turn, just kind of shunts people back into the rental market and increases demand for essentially the products the invitation homes is renting out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music out) \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Despite its financial success, the company has recently come under fire, and a big part of that has to do with evictions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://coronavirus.house.gov/sites/democrats.coronavirus.house.gov/files/2021-07-19.Clyburn%20to%20Invitation%20Homes%20re%20Pandemic%20Evictions.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Congress is investigating\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Invitation Homes and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://coronavirus.house.gov/news/press-releases/clyburn-investigate-pandemic-evictions-corporate-landlords\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">three other big corporate landlords\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> for evicting people during the pandemic. The company filed more than\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lgntfTGWT4rbylrmtYDiEWJODbrHAofNMrKaqcHXG9E/edit#gid=2047\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> 1,300 evictions\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> last year alone, according to a compilation of court records by a watchdog group.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Invitation Homes wouldn’t agree to a recorded interview, but they said in a statement they’ve been trying to work with tenants during the pandemic, even signing up hundreds for rent relief. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But when it comes to its eviction practices, Invitation Homes isn’t that different from other big corporations. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2893552\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Studies\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> have shown corporate landlords are more likely to evict than smaller landlords, even two to three times more likely, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://academic.oup.com/sf/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/sf/soab063/6301048\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">according to one study out of Princeton.\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Again, here’s University of Hawaii researcher Philip Garboden.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>PHILIP\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s big differences in how landlords do eviction, based on who that landlord is. T\u003c/span>he large corporate entities are much more likely to file quickly and a lot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Philip says that’s partly because those decisions are standardized. And they’re not made by property managers like Donna. Notices go out automatically. It’s a process that doesn’t usually leave tenants much leeway to work out a deal. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>PHILIP\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warnings go out on the fifth of the month to all tenants who are late. Then by the seventh or ninth of the month there’s an official filing process. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Corporate landlords are under extreme pressure to increase their profits. And Desiree Fields says they have other kinds of demands. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DESIREE\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They have imperatives to pay dividends to, you know, to their investors, to shareholders. They have large amounts of debt that they need to pay down. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Corporate landlords typically charge more fees for things like late rent, pets, pest control and parking. And while smaller landlords typically cover maintenance, corporate landlords are increasingly sticking tenants with those bills.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DESIREE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So we see them increasing rents, but we also see them in general trying to squeeze the asset any way they can. So we see things like piling on lots of extra fees as a way of generating revenue.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music in)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> After Neal Dennis III and his family were evicted, they did end up finding another place to live. It’s a small blue house with white trim, not far from where they were before. They’re coming up on five years in the house. And this time, Neal’s home is owned by a small landlord who lives in the area. He says the interactions are a lot more forgiving.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>NEAL\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Look, if I’m going to be late, I’ll give him a call let him know, “Hey, I need until this time.” “No problem.” “I’ll have it in your account at this certain time.” “No problem.” Never no notice on my door. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In a lot of ways, what small landlords are looking for in tenants is pretty similar to what tenants want from their landlords: stability. Most have day jobs. They manage the properties themselves, and they don’t want a lot of extra work. So they \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01944363.2020.1798806\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">tend to charge their tenants less\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, because they want to hold onto them and reduce turnover.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DESIREE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re looking for, you know, their rent checks to flow in as a supplement to their income. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music out)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But there are downsides to having a smaller landlord. Philip Garboden says a closer personal relationship with tenants can also lead to more friction.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>PHILIP\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When they feel a tenant is hiding from them or when they feel for whatever reason a tenant isn’t trying their hardest to pay the rent, things can go south in a hurry sort of emotionally.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that can influence their decision to evict.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>PHILIP\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Small owners can be so frustrated that maybe they will go and execute an eviction, even if it’s not profitable for them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s also \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/00031224211029618?journalCode=asra\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">evidence\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> that small landlords tend to rely on gut feelings, which can lead to all kinds of discrimination.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>PHILIP\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So there are trade-offs involved.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But big or small, all landlords hold a lot of power. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DESIREE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So just by virtue of, you know, having the resources to, you know, to purchase a property and own it, landlords are able to charge tenants for access to something that’s a fundamental human need, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And she says that points to a larger, systemic problem. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DESIREE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We treat housing as a market commodity.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s something to be bought and sold, to make money off of.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And, Desiree says you can hate certain players, especially the ones who are trying to squeeze every last penny from their tenants. But, it’s the game that’s rigged. Big corporations are just taking it to its logical end, by trying to make the most money possible. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DESIREE\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I do think that’s incompatible with the idea of having housing that is meaningfully affordable, but also to a system where people feel like they have like some power and control over, like, their basic living conditions and, you know, the kinds of choices they’re able to make about their housing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Owning property has been the main way for middle-class people to build wealth in this country. And, for people who’ve been able to buy into that system, it’s worked really well.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But as rents continue to rise, and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/07/19/more-u-s-households-are-renting-than-at-any-point-in-50-years/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">more people\u003c/span>\u003c/a> \u003ca href=\"https://www.nmhc.org/research-insight/quick-facts-figures/quick-facts-resident-demographics/renters-and-owners/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">become renters\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, property ownership is increasingly benefiting a smaller group.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Which raises the question: Is the system we’ve got the one we want? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And is it time to check some of that power and profits, to make sure we all have a place to live?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music out)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Sold Out theme song begins.)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Coming up on Sold Out: fighting evictions in the courts. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How activists across the country are leveling the playing field between landlords and tenants.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>D.J. \u003c/b>\u003cb>CRINER\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Are you going to hold landlords just as accountable as landlords think they’re holding residents? Are you going to give individuals an opportunity to have legal aid? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>JOHN POLLOCK\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These are very serious proceedings on par with criminal ones in terms of the consequences.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>RANDY \u003c/b>\u003cb>DILLARD\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No tenant should have to stand before a judge and not know their rights.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Molly Solomon.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And I’m Erin Baldassari. You’ve been listening to Sold Out: Rethinking Housing in America. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you like what you hear, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts — it really helps us share the show.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Sold Out is a production of KQED. This episode was written and reported by us, Molly Solomon and Erin Baldassari.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Adhiti Bandlamudi produced this episode. Kyana Moghadam is our senior producer. Brendan Willard is our sound engineer. Rob Speight wrote our theme song. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Natalia Aldana is our senior engagement producer and Gerald Fermin is our engagement intern.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks to our editor, Erika Kelly. Additional editing from Jessica Placzek and Otis Taylor Jr.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We couldn’t have made this season without Ethan Toven-Lindsey, Holly Kernan, Erika Aguilar and Vinnee Tong.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thanks for listening. We’ll see you next week!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":null,"status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1700529742,"stats":{"hasAudio":true,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":214,"wordCount":5281},"headData":{"title":"The Landlord's Game: Who Has the Power to Evict? | KQED","description":"Getting evicted can hinder a renter's ability to find stable housing for years afterward. And the capacity to evict gives landlords a lot of power over their tenants. In this episode of Sold Out, we explore when and why landlords decide to evict. We also look at how property ownership has shifted in recent years","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","headline":"The Landlord's Game: Who Has the Power to Evict?","datePublished":"2022-02-28T11:01:03.000Z","dateModified":"2023-11-21T01:22:22.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png","isAccessibleForFree":"Y","publisher":{"@type":"NewsMediaOrganization","@id":"https://www.kqed.org/#organization","name":"KQED","url":"https://www.kqed.org","logo":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"authorsData":[{"type":"authors","id":"11652","meta":{"index":"authors_1591205172","id":"11652","found":true},"name":"Erin Baldassari","firstName":"Erin","lastName":"Baldassari","slug":"ebaldassari","email":"ebaldassari@KQED.org","display_author_email":true,"staff_mastheads":["news"],"title":"Staff Writer","bio":"Erin Baldassari covers housing for KQED. She's a former print journalist and most recently worked as the transportation reporter for the \u003cem>Mercury News\u003c/em> and \u003cem>East Bay Times. \u003c/em>There, she focused on how the Bay Area’s housing shortage has changed the way people move around the region. She also served on the \u003cem>East Bay Times\u003c/em>’ 2017 Pulitzer Prize-winning team for coverage of the Ghost Ship Fire in Oakland. Prior to that, Erin worked as a breaking news and general assignment reporter for a variety of outlets in the Bay Area and the greater Boston area. A Tufts University alumna, Erin grew up in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada mountains and in Sonoma County. She is a life-long KQED listener.","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/660ce35d088ca54ad606d7e941abc652?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":"e_baldi","facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"news","roles":["author","edit_others_posts"]},{"site":"science","roles":["editor"]}],"headData":{"title":"Erin Baldassari | KQED","description":"Staff Writer","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/660ce35d088ca54ad606d7e941abc652?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/660ce35d088ca54ad606d7e941abc652?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/ebaldassari"},{"type":"authors","id":"11651","meta":{"index":"authors_1591205172","id":"11651","found":true},"name":"Molly Solomon","firstName":"Molly","lastName":"Solomon","slug":"msolomon","email":"msolomon@KQED.org","display_author_email":false,"staff_mastheads":["news"],"title":"Senior Editor","bio":"Molly Solomon is the senior editor of KQED's California Politics and Government Desk. Previously, she was the station's editor-at-large, with a focus on editing early childhood education, politics, and criminal justice. Before that, she managed and edited statewide election coverage for The California Newsroom, a collaboration of local public radio stations, CalMatters and NPR. Molly joined KQED in 2019 to launch the station’s housing affordability desk, where she reported on homelessness, evictions and is the co-host of KQED’s housing podcast, SOLD OUT: Rethinking Housing in America. Before that, she was the Southwest Washington Bureau Chief for Oregon Public Broadcasting and a reporter at Hawaii Public Radio. Her stories have aired on NPR’s \u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em>, \u003cem>All Things Considered\u003c/em>, \u003cem>Here & Now\u003c/em>, \u003cem>Science Friday\u003c/em> and \u003cem>Marketplace\u003c/em>. Molly's award-winning reporting has been honored by the Best of the West, Edward R. Murrow awards, Society of Professional Journalists, National Headliner Awards, and the Asian American Journalists Association. Born and raised in Berkeley, Molly is a big fan of burritos and her scruffy terrier, Ollie.","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/9ad9794616923d81c9a79897161545bd?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":"solomonout","facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"news","roles":["editor"]},{"site":"science","roles":["editor"]}],"headData":{"title":"Molly Solomon | KQED","description":"Senior Editor","ogImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/9ad9794616923d81c9a79897161545bd?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twImgSrc":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/9ad9794616923d81c9a79897161545bd?s=600&d=blank&r=g"},"isLoading":false,"link":"/author/msolomon"}],"imageData":{"ogImageSize":{"file":"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/02/IMG_9922-1020x765.jpg","width":1020,"height":765,"mimeType":"image/jpeg"},"twImageSize":{"file":"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/02/IMG_9922-1020x765.jpg","width":1020,"height":765,"mimeType":"image/jpeg"},"twitterCard":"summary_large_image"},"tagData":{"tags":["Antioch","California","covid19","eviction","eviction moratorium","evictions","housing","KQED","landlord","pandemic","podcast","Rent","sold out","soldout"]}},"source":"SOLD OUT","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/soldout","audioUrl":"https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.megaphone.fm/KQINC9294160459.mp3?updated=1645829114","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","path":"/news/11906451/the-landlords-game-who-has-the-power-to-evict","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Getting evicted can hinder a renter’s ability to find stable housing for years afterward. And the capacity to evict gives landlords a lot of power over their tenants.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this episode of Sold Out, we explore when and why landlords decide to evict. We also look at how property ownership has shifted in recent years from largely small “mom and pop” landlords to an increasing number of investors and corporations — and what that means for tenants and our housing system.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch5 id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC9294160459&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/h5>\n\u003chr>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>THE LANDLORD’S GAME [TRANSCRIPT]\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Sounds: Birds whistling, gravel, road, someone walking)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN BALDASSARI, HOST\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s a warm fall day in Antioch, California, and Donna Ridge has spent the morning delivering eviction notices. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She’s the property manager for a local landlord, Kevin Davidson, and also one of his tenants. We gather around Donna’s small kitchen table. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Sounds: Papers being shuffled)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA RIDGE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, you got some three-day-notices.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN DAVIDSON\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kevin owns around 100 apartments spread across 15 buildings in the San Francisco Bay Area. And California’s eviction moratorium had just expired about a month earlier. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Sounds: The reporter, Erin, is talking to Donna and Kevin in person)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How many do you have?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Total? I don’t know. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have three here.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Can’t count that high.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You got three, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY SOLOMON, HOST\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kevin says that during the pandemic, about a third of his tenants stopped paying rent at one point or another. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some of these tenants are really good tenants. They didn’t deliberately get behind, but when they did, I mean, bills still have to be paid, you know? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music in)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Most tenants who fell behind received rent relief. But for some, it didn’t cover everything they owed.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They gotta start paying. Once rent relief has paid up their part, then they gotta pay their part and if they don’t pay, then …\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They get noticed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They get a notice.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Each tenant was struggling for a different reason. One guy told Donna he gave his rent money to his roommate, the leaseholder. But the leaseholder wasn’t paying rent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s not my problem. My problem is that you need to pay your rent, and you need to pay it on time like everybody else does. You know? That’s the way it works.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another tenant stopped paying rent at the beginning of the pandemic. And while the state had given her the maximum amount of rent relief, she still owed more.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now this woman here, we’ll probably have to end up evicting her.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Donna says the tenant had just started going back to work. But then her son ended up in the hospital. Understandably difficult, but by this point Donna had been trying to get her rent money for a year and a half.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She’s got excuse after excuse. Basically, I think she bit off more than she could chew, is what it is. Now she says she doesn’t want to move at all, and I said, “Well, then you better start paying rent.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> With the eviction notices delivered, Kevin has a decision to make. He could work out a deal and maybe come up with a payment plan so his tenants could catch up on missed rent. Or he could file an eviction lawsuit.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If he does file a lawsuit, his tenant could have as little as five days to find a new place to live — no easy task with rents that just keep rising. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s really a tight rental market right now, so these guys would be smart to pay their rent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music out)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Sold Out theme song begins.)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All landlords have the power to evict. But they don’t all wield that power in the same way. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ve learned it depends a lot on who\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">the landlord is — and that’s\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">changing. Large corporations are scooping up more rental properties, and as they do, their relationship with tenants becomes less personal and more profit-driven. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Molly Solomon.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And I’m Erin Baldassari. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">From KQED, you’re listening to Sold Out: Rethinking Housing in America. This season, we’re talking about evictions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Coming up: The business of being a landlord — and when it pays to evict. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Sold Out theme song ends.)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11839127\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 657px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11839127\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/09/SOLD-OUT-Web-Banners__Tune-In_656x336.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"657\" height=\"337\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/09/SOLD-OUT-Web-Banners__Tune-In_656x336.png 657w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2020/09/SOLD-OUT-Web-Banners__Tune-In_656x336-160x82.png 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 657px) 100vw, 657px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">KQED’s podcast Sold Out looks at the history of and solutions to California’s housing crisis. \u003ccite>(KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To understand how landlords make decisions about evictions, it helps to know why they got into the business. When I asked Kevin, he said he sort of fell into it. He started working as a property manager to help pay his way through college.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Sounds: Highways, cars driving nearby, street sounds)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I kind of learned the business a little bit, and I saw the people that were the owners and they seem to be doing pretty good. So I figure that, you know, long term, this would be a good thing to do.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> He bought his first rental property — a single-family home — around 40 years ago, while still holding down a day job at an oil refinery. A few years later, he bought a triplex.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I had just gone from there. What happens is property goes up, you refinance it, buy another. Two properties go up, you refinance it and buy another.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, he doesn’t need a day job. And he’s not what you’d call a mom-and-pop landlord. He’s bigger than that — more of a mid-sized investor. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For the most part, my main investment is real estate.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s done well. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Erin laughs.)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, it’s done well.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s not all profit, though. He says the maintenance, mortgages, property taxes and insurance cost about 65 to 70% of what he gets in rent. The rest he keeps.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So your profit margin’s somewhere around 30, 35%.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Most of Kevin’s properties are on the eastern edge of the Bay Area. They’re in low-income neighborhoods. Even if it seems counterintuitive, he says that’s where you get a bigger bang for your buck.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And studies back that up. Researchers from Princeton and MIT found that on average, landlords in low-income neighborhoods took home\u003c/span> \u003ca href=\"https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/701697?mobileUi=0#_i9\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">double the profit\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, compared to landlords in wealthy neighborhoods.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s because they have lower mortgages and property taxes. And despite living in worse neighborhoods, tenants pay about the same in rent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music in)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Kevin’s business model of specializing in low-income neighborhoods doesn’t always work out — for him or his tenants. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He co-owns an RV park and marina in Bethel Island, a small town more than an hour’s drive from San Francisco. County officials there have labeled it a \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/02/09/dozens-to-be-evicted-in-messy-battle-over-illegal-east-bay-rv-park/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">public nuisance\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Officials say it was never properly permitted to begin with — even though people had been living there before Kevin and his business partner bought the place back in 2004.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The county and the owners reached a stalemate over how to bring the place up to code. So in November, the owners told the 30-or-so tenants they had to leave. But most had nowhere to go. They stayed and saw bad conditions get worse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The electricity was cut off in late January, shared bathrooms boarded up and trash service stopped. A few weeks later, a fire broke out in one of the RVs, sending a woman to the hospital with severe burns. She had been using a propane heater to stay warm.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The rents there are about as cheap as they get in the Bay Area, with people paying around $400 to $750 a month.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Deanna Hughes moved into a houseboat on the marina about a year ago. She says a lot of her neighbors survive on disability checks or social security. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DEANNA HUGHES\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is what they have, you know? Might not be the best place, but it’s a home. It’s a roof over their head. And where are they going to be when they don’t have this, you know? We have enough homeless people in the state of California, I think, without them adding to it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kevin says he feels bad for the long-term tenants who have lived there for years. But he felt like the situation had just spiraled too far out of control. And, he and his partner are now in the process of selling the property. But first, they have to get everyone out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music out)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kevin typically tries to avoid\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">evictions as much as possible. Because they’re expensive. Each time, he has to pay courts and legal services more than $500 in fees. It can cost even more if he has to hire a lawyer. He might go through that whole process only to end up working out a deal with the tenant at the courthouse.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, we don’t want them to leave. When they leave, they cost more money than it does if they just pay.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked Kevin if he ever lowered someone’s rent, given the cost of evictions and turnover. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Sounds: Highway, cars on the road, air whistling)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Well, I don’t really do that much because word gets around. And so if you do it for one person, then you got to start doing it for other people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Usually, though, if one of his tenants is having trouble coming up with rent, it’s not Kevin they call, it’s his property manager, Donna.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I met up with her one day while she was making the rounds at Kevin’s properties. It was 100 degrees outside, and Donna was sweating under the afternoon sun. But she was still out there raking up debris.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Donna does all kinds of odd jobs for Kevin. On this particular day, there was a duck — a dead duck.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A dead duck? Oh, well, then let’s get that cleaned up then. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Who would do that? That’s disgusting. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She says there’s always something. As Donna repaired a fence, tenants driving by slowed down to wave or call out a quick hello. Others walked over to chat.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Sounds: A drill being operated, highway sounds, wind whistling)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>TENANT SPEAKING TO DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Annabele, she’s starting to stand up by herself now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, no, not already!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>TENANT\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, she’s going to start walking.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Donna, being friendly with the tenants is easy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And a lot of them say, you know, you’re so great to work with. They’re all, because you understand things, because I’m a tenant, too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In exchange for her work as property manager, Kevin pays Donna’s utility bills. He also bought the big white truck she drives around when she does maintenance on the properties. Those visits have another benefit, though — they help her keep tabs on folks who are behind on rent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You have your rent? You have your rent? She better have the rent. She owes last month’s, too. But see, we were working with her. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>JILLIAN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have it all. Just about.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Good girl.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>JILLIAN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ll be there.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Get it all, girl. See ya later. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Donna’s the buffer between Kevin and his tenants. She talks with them, tries to get a sense for why they’re behind, and she can help plead their case to Kevin. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, they’ll call me, and then I’ll call him. And he’ll either say, OK, that’s OK. Or, yeah, we’ll wait. Or he won’t. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I asked Kevin how he felt about serving evictions, knowing that an eviction judgment on your record makes it really hard to find another place to live.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>KEVIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I don’t like it. That’s why I talk to them. That’s why I try to set up payment plans. That’s why we give them every opportunity to pay. But if they don’t, then they can’t live there for free. So we go through with the eviction.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Kevin’s approach to evictions is pretty common. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/philipgarboden\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Philip Garboden\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> researches landlord behavior at the University of Hawaii.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>PHILIP GARBODEN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sometimes I feel like the sort of public discussion of eviction assumes that landlords love evicting tenants, right? But almost every landlord we talked to felt that actually evicting a tenant was a business failure and a significant business cost.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Most landlords who start the eviction process don’t actually follow through. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In a review of over \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://abell.org/sites/default/files/files/cd-justicediverted216.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">150,000 eviction notices in Baltimore\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, just under 5% resulted in a court-ordered eviction where a tenant was forced out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Phillip says even if tenants do end up staying, most landlords see real benefits from filing that first notice. Because it helps them \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://evictionlab.org/serial-eviction-filings/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">collect rent\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>PHILIP\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The goal of the eviction is to — what one landlord called the “first shot over the bow” — to show that tenant that if they don’t pay, there’s going to be severe consequences and those consequences are going to be backed up by the legal system. And those consequences will be lasting.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And there are other benefits for landlords.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>PHILIP\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many of our landlords explained to us that by filing, they recognize that a tenant is less likely to complain about property issues, right? Is much less likely to, you know, report a landlord.\u003c/span>\u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music in)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you owe someone money, it changes your relationship. You’re probably going to try to avoid them as much as possible. And if that person is your landlord, there’s an added layer of anxiety because your housing’s on the line.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>PHILIP\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And now all of a sudden you have a relationship where in order for that family to stay stably housed, they need to pay back their debt to a landlord. And the way that we treat people to whom we owe money is a fundamentally different social relationship, has fundamentally different power dynamics, than the way we treat people who we buy or rent things from. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Philip says eviction notices help landlords flex their power over their tenants. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But that power imbalance is\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> established much earlier, during the tenant-screening process.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>PHILIP\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Landlords have all the power to sort of give access to families or to deny access to families.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music out)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Kevin’s case, that screening process starts with Donna. She’s in charge of posting his apartments on Craigslist and sorting through applications.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We ask that they make double the rent, and they have the means to be able to support their children, like if the emergency happened, if they fell and broke an arm or leg or whatever, that they could handle that and the rent still, you know?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She says there’s one red flag they always look for. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DONNA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mainly, no evictions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They make a few exceptions but most of the time, they pass. Because whatever the reason, it could happen again, and they don’t want to take that chance. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Philip says that’s the way a lot of landlords operate. And it makes sense: They want tenants who will pay rent on time. All this to say, if you have past evictions, a low income, bad credit, or kids, it can be very hard to find a landlord willing to rent you a home.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music in)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>PHILIP\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That becomes much more of this relationship of, you’re applying for admission, right? And the fewer resources, the lower income, the more income volatility that a particular family experiences, the stronger that power dynamic is.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This power imbalance between landlords and tenants, it’s nothing new. But in some cases, it’s growing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Coming up: What to expect when your landlord is a corporation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music out)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Sounds: Game pieces being thrown onto a game board, shuffling of objects)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIKA KELLY, EDITOR\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So everybody gets how much money? $1,500? I can’t remember what we start with.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I can’t remember what we start with.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, wow, I didn’t even know we started with that much. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Molly laughs.)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIKA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, you gotta be able to pay rent, you gotta be able to buy stuff.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s our editor, Erika Kelly. We all got together the other day for a game we all played as kids. You can probably guess what it is.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cb>MONOPOLY COMMERCIAL CIRCA 1981\u003c/b>\u003c/em>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To make it big, you’ve got to play the game. I’m Monopoly Game. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> For everyone who’s played Monopoly, you know the point of the game: Buy up all the properties and get as rich as possible. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIKA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, you want to bankrupt everybody else. If you don’t buy stuff, there’s no way to make money.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was pretty clear who was dominating the game.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: There’s not even even any $100 bills left in here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know, because Erika has them all. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIKA\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They are all over here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(All three players laugh.)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music in)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But this version of the game we all know, that’s not the way the game was intended\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">to be played.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The original concept came from a woman named Lizzie Magie. Her version of the game \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/business/behind-monopoly-an-inventor-who-didnt-pass-go.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">came out in 1903\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a time when a lot of people really struggled to pay rent. And she wanted the game to be a cautionary tale. Not to glorify capitalism, but steer people away\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">from it. She called it: The Landlord’s Game.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music out)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In Magie’s version of the game, there were two ways to play: the version we know today, and one where everyone shared the profit. In real life, there are also different ways for landlords to play. Some just want a steady income. But increasingly, others are out to own the whole board. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Up until the late ‘80s, the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/1998/demo/h121-98-01.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">vast majority\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> of landlords owned fewer than five units — you know, mom and pops. That began to change as more midsized players, like Kevin, got into the game. And corporations\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">began buying more and more apartment buildings. Companies now own at least \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.census.gov/data-tools/demo/rhfs/#/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">two-thirds\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> of all apartment buildings nationwide. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And it’s not just apartments. According to the Census Bureau, nearly\u003c/span> \u003ca href=\"https://www.census.gov/data-tools/demo/rhfs/#/?s_type=1&s_tableName=TABLE2&s_byGroup1=3&s_filterGroup1=2\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">3 million single-family homes \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">are now owned by LLCs, LLPs or LPs — shell companies that mask the identity of the true owner. And each one of those houses has a tenant who pays rent.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Neal Dennis III was one of those tenants. He’s a former security guard and a father of seven. In 2015, he and his family moved into a new home in Antioch. Two years later, Neal wasn’t getting as many hours at work, and bills began piling up. He and his wife had to make a choice.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>NEAL DENNIS III\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know PG&E was going up in the house. Water, garbage, you know, all that adds up so when you’re trying to divvy it out to everybody, somebody is going to get cut short sometimes. We need water, we need PG&E. Well, rent is going to be a little short this month.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For the first time, Neal was late paying rent. His landlord was Waypoint Homes. At the time, Neal had no idea the company owned more than \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20160105006880/en/Colony-Starwood-Homes-Announces-Closing-of-7.7-Billion-Merger-of-Starwood-Waypoint-Residential-Trust-with-Colony-American-Homes-Creating-the-Premier-Single-Family-REIT\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">23,000 homes across four states\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. When he fell behind, no one offered to get him on a payment plan. Instead …\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>NEAL\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think they filed within a week.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After not paying?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>NEAL\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> After not paying.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wow, that’s so quick. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>NEAL\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, it was quick.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Did anyone call you ahead of time? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>NEAL\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, we just got a letter in the mail, you know, and a letter on the door.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Neal couldn’t afford a lawyer who might’ve worked out a deal. So, he and his wife agreed to pay the back rent, and then packed up to leave.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We tried to track down Waypoint for comment, but the company \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://news.theregistrysf.com/gi-partners-sells-waypoint-portfolio-colony-starwood-815mm/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">no longer exists\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just a few months after Neal and his family were evicted, it was swallowed up in a string of consolidations by \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://news.theregistrysf.com/gi-partners-sells-waypoint-portfolio-colony-starwood-815mm/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">larger\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.housingwire.com/articles/41839-invitation-homes-starwood-waypoint-homes-merge-to-create-largest-single-family-landlord/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">larger\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> players, eventually merging with Invitation Homes — the country’s largest owner of single-family rentals. Today, they own more than \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://s28.q4cdn.com/264003623/files/doc_financials/2021/q4/Q4-2021-Supplemental_FINAL.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">81,000 across 12 states\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11906470\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"wp-image-11906470 size-medium\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/02/Invitation-Homes-Growth-800x545.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"545\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/02/Invitation-Homes-Growth-800x545.jpg 800w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/02/Invitation-Homes-Growth-1020x695.jpg 1020w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/02/Invitation-Homes-Growth-160x109.jpg 160w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/02/Invitation-Homes-Growth-1536x1047.jpg 1536w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/02/Invitation-Homes-Growth-2048x1396.jpg 2048w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2022/02/Invitation-Homes-Growth-1920x1308.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This graphic shows the growth of Invitation Homes over time and its mergers with other large single-family-home landlords. \u003ccite>(Graphic courtesy of Desiree Fields/UC Berkeley. Graphic by Manon Vergerio/independent researcher and Desiree Fields/UC Berkeley)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Their rapid growth is emblematic of a big shift towards corporate landlords. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://fcic-static.law.stanford.edu/cdn_media/fcic-reports/fcic_final_report_chapter22.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Millions of families lost their homes\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to foreclosure during the 2008 housing bust. And many of them became renters. New corporate landlords took advantage of dirt-cheap prices, buying up homes by the thousands. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/fieldsdesiree\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Desiree Fields\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> is a professor of geography and urban studies at the University of California in Berkeley. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music in) \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DESIREE FIELDS\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it is this huge loss of wealth at the household level that is what enables these players to get their start. So there’s something important there, right? This, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">like, v\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">ery direct transfer of wealth from Main Street to Wall Street.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Invitation Homes was founded in 2012 by Blackstone — one of the biggest private equity firms in the world. Invitation Homes CEO Dallas Tanner \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2cAVzYwnyo\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">recently told\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> the podcast RealWealth the fact that the company owns so many homes is a good thing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2cAVzYwnyo\">\u003cb>\u003cem>DALLAS TANNER ON REALWEALTH SHOW\u003c/em>\u003c/b>\u003c/a>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We can drive down the costs because of our economies of scale in terms of how we, you know, fit and finish your home, offer upgraded standards within a home, whether it’s kitchens, countertops, master bathrooms, whatever. And the law of large numbers really helps us create a better product at a more affordable price.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Those cost savings don’t appear to be passed on to tenants. Instead, they go to investors as profits. Invitation Homes increased rents \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://s28.q4cdn.com/264003623/files/doc_news/Q4-2021-Supplemental_Press-Release-FINAL.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">last year\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> by an average of 9%. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That translated into more than $260 million in profits paid out to shareholders.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The company capitalized on increased demand for single-family rentals during the pandemic. And they continued to buy up more homes, even amid sky-high prices.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DESIREE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They can kind of outcompete would-be-owner occupiers. And that, in turn, just kind of shunts people back into the rental market and increases demand for essentially the products the invitation homes is renting out.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music out) \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Despite its financial success, the company has recently come under fire, and a big part of that has to do with evictions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://coronavirus.house.gov/sites/democrats.coronavirus.house.gov/files/2021-07-19.Clyburn%20to%20Invitation%20Homes%20re%20Pandemic%20Evictions.pdf\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Congress is investigating\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Invitation Homes and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://coronavirus.house.gov/news/press-releases/clyburn-investigate-pandemic-evictions-corporate-landlords\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">three other big corporate landlords\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> for evicting people during the pandemic. The company filed more than\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lgntfTGWT4rbylrmtYDiEWJODbrHAofNMrKaqcHXG9E/edit#gid=2047\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> 1,300 evictions\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> last year alone, according to a compilation of court records by a watchdog group.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Invitation Homes wouldn’t agree to a recorded interview, but they said in a statement they’ve been trying to work with tenants during the pandemic, even signing up hundreds for rent relief. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But when it comes to its eviction practices, Invitation Homes isn’t that different from other big corporations. \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2893552\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Studies\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> have shown corporate landlords are more likely to evict than smaller landlords, even two to three times more likely, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://academic.oup.com/sf/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/sf/soab063/6301048\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">according to one study out of Princeton.\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Again, here’s University of Hawaii researcher Philip Garboden.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>PHILIP\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s big differences in how landlords do eviction, based on who that landlord is. T\u003c/span>he large corporate entities are much more likely to file quickly and a lot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Philip says that’s partly because those decisions are standardized. And they’re not made by property managers like Donna. Notices go out automatically. It’s a process that doesn’t usually leave tenants much leeway to work out a deal. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>PHILIP\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Warnings go out on the fifth of the month to all tenants who are late. Then by the seventh or ninth of the month there’s an official filing process. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Corporate landlords are under extreme pressure to increase their profits. And Desiree Fields says they have other kinds of demands. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DESIREE\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They have imperatives to pay dividends to, you know, to their investors, to shareholders. They have large amounts of debt that they need to pay down. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Corporate landlords typically charge more fees for things like late rent, pets, pest control and parking. And while smaller landlords typically cover maintenance, corporate landlords are increasingly sticking tenants with those bills.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DESIREE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So we see them increasing rents, but we also see them in general trying to squeeze the asset any way they can. So we see things like piling on lots of extra fees as a way of generating revenue.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music in)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> After Neal Dennis III and his family were evicted, they did end up finding another place to live. It’s a small blue house with white trim, not far from where they were before. They’re coming up on five years in the house. And this time, Neal’s home is owned by a small landlord who lives in the area. He says the interactions are a lot more forgiving.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>NEAL\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Look, if I’m going to be late, I’ll give him a call let him know, “Hey, I need until this time.” “No problem.” “I’ll have it in your account at this certain time.” “No problem.” Never no notice on my door. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In a lot of ways, what small landlords are looking for in tenants is pretty similar to what tenants want from their landlords: stability. Most have day jobs. They manage the properties themselves, and they don’t want a lot of extra work. So they \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01944363.2020.1798806\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">tend to charge their tenants less\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, because they want to hold onto them and reduce turnover.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DESIREE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re looking for, you know, their rent checks to flow in as a supplement to their income. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music out)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But there are downsides to having a smaller landlord. Philip Garboden says a closer personal relationship with tenants can also lead to more friction.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>PHILIP\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When they feel a tenant is hiding from them or when they feel for whatever reason a tenant isn’t trying their hardest to pay the rent, things can go south in a hurry sort of emotionally.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that can influence their decision to evict.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>PHILIP\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Small owners can be so frustrated that maybe they will go and execute an eviction, even if it’s not profitable for them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s also \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/00031224211029618?journalCode=asra\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">evidence\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> that small landlords tend to rely on gut feelings, which can lead to all kinds of discrimination.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>PHILIP\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So there are trade-offs involved.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But big or small, all landlords hold a lot of power. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DESIREE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So just by virtue of, you know, having the resources to, you know, to purchase a property and own it, landlords are able to charge tenants for access to something that’s a fundamental human need, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And she says that points to a larger, systemic problem. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DESIREE\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We treat housing as a market commodity.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s something to be bought and sold, to make money off of.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And, Desiree says you can hate certain players, especially the ones who are trying to squeeze every last penny from their tenants. But, it’s the game that’s rigged. Big corporations are just taking it to its logical end, by trying to make the most money possible. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>DESIREE\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I do think that’s incompatible with the idea of having housing that is meaningfully affordable, but also to a system where people feel like they have like some power and control over, like, their basic living conditions and, you know, the kinds of choices they’re able to make about their housing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Owning property has been the main way for middle-class people to build wealth in this country. And, for people who’ve been able to buy into that system, it’s worked really well.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But as rents continue to rise, and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/07/19/more-u-s-households-are-renting-than-at-any-point-in-50-years/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">more people\u003c/span>\u003c/a> \u003ca href=\"https://www.nmhc.org/research-insight/quick-facts-figures/quick-facts-resident-demographics/renters-and-owners/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">become renters\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, property ownership is increasingly benefiting a smaller group.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Which raises the question: Is the system we’ve got the one we want? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And is it time to check some of that power and profits, to make sure we all have a place to live?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Music out)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">(Sold Out theme song begins.)\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Coming up on Sold Out: fighting evictions in the courts. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How activists across the country are leveling the playing field between landlords and tenants.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>D.J. \u003c/b>\u003cb>CRINER\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Are you going to hold landlords just as accountable as landlords think they’re holding residents? Are you going to give individuals an opportunity to have legal aid? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>JOHN POLLOCK\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These are very serious proceedings on par with criminal ones in terms of the consequences.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>RANDY \u003c/b>\u003cb>DILLARD\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No tenant should have to stand before a judge and not know their rights.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Molly Solomon.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And I’m Erin Baldassari. You’ve been listening to Sold Out: Rethinking Housing in America. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you like what you hear, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts — it really helps us share the show.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Sold Out is a production of KQED. This episode was written and reported by us, Molly Solomon and Erin Baldassari.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Adhiti Bandlamudi produced this episode. Kyana Moghadam is our senior producer. Brendan Willard is our sound engineer. Rob Speight wrote our theme song. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>ERIN\u003c/b>: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Natalia Aldana is our senior engagement producer and Gerald Fermin is our engagement intern.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks to our editor, Erika Kelly. Additional editing from Jessica Placzek and Otis Taylor Jr.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We couldn’t have made this season without Ethan Toven-Lindsey, Holly Kernan, Erika Aguilar and Vinnee Tong.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>MOLLY\u003c/b>:\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thanks for listening. We’ll see you next week!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/news/11906451/the-landlords-game-who-has-the-power-to-evict","authors":["11652","11651"],"programs":["news_33522"],"categories":["news_8","news_33520"],"tags":["news_19122","news_18538","news_30292","news_30715","news_21883","news_27701","news_18372","news_1775","news_30716","news_9","news_28082","news_27660","news_28426","news_20967","news_28541","news_28527","news_30717"],"featImg":"news_11906468","label":"source_news_11906451","isLoading":false,"hasAllInfo":true}},"programsReducer":{"possible":{"id":"possible","title":"Possible","info":"Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. 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