Steven Rascón is a journalist and an audio producer from Northeast Los Angeles. He's a producer in the KQED news and podcast department. He was a producer for the KQED investigative series On Our Watch: New Folsom. His reporting has been featured in Cal Matters, KCRW, and WHYY. He's also the production manager for the radio show and podcast Reveal from the Center for Investigative Reporting and PRX. He was part of the team that produced the Peabody nominated 7-part series Mississippi Goddamn: The Ballad of Billey Joe. He's a graduate from the UC Berkeley Graduate School of Journalism.
A Scientist’s Fight to Save Catalina Island’s Plant Biodiversity
How Scarlot Harlot Made Sex Worker Rights Her Life's Work
Cashing In on the Future of California's Bottle Deposit System
Sucka Free History with Dregs One
Union City’s Joshua Neal is a Star For Real
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"content": "\u003cp>While driving home from work one day, Kevin Alison spotted a rare flower off the side of the road. From the window of his company’s white pick-up truck, he noticed a large, beautiful purple flower that’s known as a Phacelia — an endangered species of wildflower that grows off \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/california-coast\">California’s coastal bluffs and islands\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As a plant ecologist, Alison knew he had to get a sample of the flower. But when he returned to the same spot, a week later, he discovered the flower was gone. He assumed the flower would still be there. The Los Angeles County Fire Department had \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12021125/la-fires-renew-debate-over-prescribed-burns-and-fire-preparedness-in-california\">recently cleared all the brush\u003c/a>. Alison would later join the department as a volunteer, not to put out fires, but so that he could potentially save another rare plant or flower from being swept up by accident.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alison lives in the city of Avalon on Santa Catalina Island. It’s an hour-long ferry ride from the Port of Long Beach, right off the coast of L.A. County. The island is known for its scenic hiking trails, campsites, beaches and for being a popular tourist destination for cruise ships. But it’s also known for its biodiversity — the island is home to more than 60 different native plants and animals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Forests, trees and rolling hills cover more than 88% of the island, which the Catalina Island Conservancy manages. As the Conservancy’s native plant manager, Alison’s job is to care for all the island’s plants, though he has an affinity for the rare ones. He spends his time in a lab deep inside Catalina’s interior with no cell service, where he clones plant tissue and propagates them. But his favorite part of the job is spending time amongst the groves of rare plants on the island. He compares his enthusiasm to that of a dog who is excited to play with a new toy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That’s how I feel whenever I show people the species that I love,” Alison told KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12039299\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-QUAD-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12039299\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-QUAD-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-QUAD-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-QUAD-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-QUAD-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-QUAD-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-QUAD-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-QUAD-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">(Clockwise from top left) Island Rush-rose, Common Yarrow, Mission Manzanita and Catalina Island Mountain Mahogany grow at the James H. Ackerman Plant Nursery on Catalina Island on May 7, 2025. \u003ccite>(Nick Morrow for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>But cloning plant tissue can’t save the rare plants currently growing on the island. While walking through the Conservancy’s botanical garden, Alison pointed out the island’s native cherry tree, the Catalina Cherry. The leaves on top of the tree grow freely, but the bottom half appears snipped straight across. The marking, Alison said, is the browse line from the invasive mule deer who’ve been eating it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The deer were brought over in the 1930s to boost hunting tourism. Without a natural predator, the number of deer grew over time and has indiscriminately munched on both the native and nonnative plants. As of 2023, the Conservancy said there were up to 1,800 deer on the island.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/02/us/santa-catalina-island-california.html\">an interview\u003c/a> with the New York Times, Lauren Denhardt, senior director of conservation for the Catalina Island Conservancy, said the result of invasive species on the island “has eroded soil, depleted the food supply for other animals and, most alarming, allowed flammable shrubs and grasses to proliferate.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=news_12035344 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/250408-CAL-TECH-TESTING-113-ZS-KQED-1020x680.jpg']\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The growth of these nonnative plants, she said, could create conditions akin to those that fueled the\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11979610/after-the-fires-a-maui-community-creates-a-land-trust-to-keep-homes-in-local-hands\"> recent catastrophic fire\u003c/a> in Maui.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the summer of 2023, the Conservancy proposed to remove the deer from the island using sharpshooters via helicopters. Although the Conservancy said this was the most humane way to address the invasive deer issue, locals were upset and started a campaign to save the island’s deer population. The Avalon residents won — a year later, the county’s Fish and Wildlife Commission rejected the plan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In an emailed statement, the Conservancy wrote, “a healthy native plant ecosystem is the best defense against climate change and wildfire risk” and “invasive species, including mule deer, continue to harm Catalina and the rare plants and animals found only on this unique island. We are focused on finding lasting solutions to manage invasive species by working with agency partners, scientific experts and the broader community.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The organization has been having conversations with the community and hearing a range of perspectives, including strong support.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think people are prone to care about something with eyes and a species that’s adorable, and I couldn’t agree more,” said Alison, about the controversy. He understands it’s much easier for people to have empathy for animals than for plants. But for Alison, the timing has made saving the island’s native plants more urgent than ever.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12039293\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-04-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12039293\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-04-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-04-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-04-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-04-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-04-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-04-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-04-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Plant Ecologist Kevin Alison in his lab at the James H. Ackerman Plant Nursery on Catalina Island on May 7, 2025. \u003ccite>(Nick Morrow for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>One of the plants he studied that helped him get the job with the Conservancy was the Catalina Mountain Mahogany. A rare tree that has the appearance of a shrub, there are only about seven left in existence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They’ve been evolving for thousands of years, and that’s literally going extinct in front of my eyes,” Alison said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Conservancy’s herbarium archive keeps samples of rare plants grown on the island. It’s a room filled with filing cabinets where plant stems and seeds are stored inside folders with a description. Plant ecologists like Alison can use these “plant pressings” to trace back a plant’s DNA, almost like a 23andMe kit. If a plant were to ever go extinct, scientists could possibly use these plant pressings to clone it in a lab or, at the very least, keep a record of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s Alison’s hope.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I may not be here down the road, but if I can help a species that I thought was so cool to thrive into the future for other people to enjoy, that’s a life well lived,” he said.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Steven Rascón is a journalist and a radio producer from Northeast Los Angeles. He’s an associate producer for the podcast and radio show Reveal from the Center for Investigative Reporting. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Forests, trees and rolling hills cover more than 88% of the island, which the Catalina Island Conservancy manages. As the Conservancy’s native plant manager, Alison’s job is to care for all the island’s plants, though he has an affinity for the rare ones. He spends his time in a lab deep inside Catalina’s interior with no cell service, where he clones plant tissue and propagates them. But his favorite part of the job is spending time amongst the groves of rare plants on the island. He compares his enthusiasm to that of a dog who is excited to play with a new toy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That’s how I feel whenever I show people the species that I love,” Alison told KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12039299\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-QUAD-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12039299\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-QUAD-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-QUAD-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-QUAD-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-QUAD-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-QUAD-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-QUAD-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-QUAD-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">(Clockwise from top left) Island Rush-rose, Common Yarrow, Mission Manzanita and Catalina Island Mountain Mahogany grow at the James H. Ackerman Plant Nursery on Catalina Island on May 7, 2025. \u003ccite>(Nick Morrow for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>But cloning plant tissue can’t save the rare plants currently growing on the island. While walking through the Conservancy’s botanical garden, Alison pointed out the island’s native cherry tree, the Catalina Cherry. The leaves on top of the tree grow freely, but the bottom half appears snipped straight across. The marking, Alison said, is the browse line from the invasive mule deer who’ve been eating it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The deer were brought over in the 1930s to boost hunting tourism. Without a natural predator, the number of deer grew over time and has indiscriminately munched on both the native and nonnative plants. As of 2023, the Conservancy said there were up to 1,800 deer on the island.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/02/us/santa-catalina-island-california.html\">an interview\u003c/a> with the New York Times, Lauren Denhardt, senior director of conservation for the Catalina Island Conservancy, said the result of invasive species on the island “has eroded soil, depleted the food supply for other animals and, most alarming, allowed flammable shrubs and grasses to proliferate.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The growth of these nonnative plants, she said, could create conditions akin to those that fueled the\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11979610/after-the-fires-a-maui-community-creates-a-land-trust-to-keep-homes-in-local-hands\"> recent catastrophic fire\u003c/a> in Maui.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the summer of 2023, the Conservancy proposed to remove the deer from the island using sharpshooters via helicopters. Although the Conservancy said this was the most humane way to address the invasive deer issue, locals were upset and started a campaign to save the island’s deer population. The Avalon residents won — a year later, the county’s Fish and Wildlife Commission rejected the plan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In an emailed statement, the Conservancy wrote, “a healthy native plant ecosystem is the best defense against climate change and wildfire risk” and “invasive species, including mule deer, continue to harm Catalina and the rare plants and animals found only on this unique island. We are focused on finding lasting solutions to manage invasive species by working with agency partners, scientific experts and the broader community.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The organization has been having conversations with the community and hearing a range of perspectives, including strong support.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think people are prone to care about something with eyes and a species that’s adorable, and I couldn’t agree more,” said Alison, about the controversy. He understands it’s much easier for people to have empathy for animals than for plants. But for Alison, the timing has made saving the island’s native plants more urgent than ever.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12039293\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-04-KQED.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12039293\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-04-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-04-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-04-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-04-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-04-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-04-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/05/250507-CATALINA-PLANT-ECOLOGIST-NM-04-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Plant Ecologist Kevin Alison in his lab at the James H. Ackerman Plant Nursery on Catalina Island on May 7, 2025. \u003ccite>(Nick Morrow for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>One of the plants he studied that helped him get the job with the Conservancy was the Catalina Mountain Mahogany. A rare tree that has the appearance of a shrub, there are only about seven left in existence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They’ve been evolving for thousands of years, and that’s literally going extinct in front of my eyes,” Alison said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Conservancy’s herbarium archive keeps samples of rare plants grown on the island. It’s a room filled with filing cabinets where plant stems and seeds are stored inside folders with a description. Plant ecologists like Alison can use these “plant pressings” to trace back a plant’s DNA, almost like a 23andMe kit. If a plant were to ever go extinct, scientists could possibly use these plant pressings to clone it in a lab or, at the very least, keep a record of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s Alison’s hope.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I may not be here down the road, but if I can help a species that I thought was so cool to thrive into the future for other people to enjoy, that’s a life well lived,” he said.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Steven Rascón is a journalist and a radio producer from Northeast Los Angeles. He’s an associate producer for the podcast and radio show Reveal from the Center for Investigative Reporting. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"title": "How Scarlot Harlot Made Sex Worker Rights Her Life's Work",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11998339/transcript-scarlot-harlot-made-sex-worker-rights-her-lifes-work\">Read a transcript of this episode.\u003c/a> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you look up Carol Leigh or “Scarlot Harlot” online, you’ll learn that she’s credited with coining the term “sex worker.” Today, it’s used by activists, public health officials, lawmakers and the media to describe those working in the sex industry, and it’s revolutionized the way we talk about the profession.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The term came to Leigh in 1978 when she attended a workshop hosted by a group of feminists in San Francisco. The group, Women Against Violence in Pornography and Media or WAVPM, thought all women in the sex industry were being oppressed by men and held \u003ca href=\"https://www.thecut.com/2019/03/sex-lies-and-andrea-dworkin.html\">anti-sex work points of view\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousbug] Leigh was familiar with this argument, but she made it a point to understand their opposing perspective. She writes in her memoir “Unrepentant Whore: The Collected Works of Scarlot Harlot” that she identified herself as a prostitute to the group. She said the name of the workshop referenced the “sex use industry.” That name embarrassed her. So, she spoke out against it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If we’re a feminist, we should be defining it not by what the men do – the men use the services – but by what the women do. Women do sex work,” Leigh recalls saying. She said she didn’t remember anyone objecting to her reasoning.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Getting into the Business\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Leigh grew up in Queens, New York, with parents who were part of the Socialist Party. She refers to herself as a “red diaper baby.” While growing up in the 1970s, she and her mother became avid feminists. She loved the movement, but, Leigh said, feminism wasn’t a perfect fit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11998536\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-at-eighteen-years-old_courtesy-of-Leigh-estate-1.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11998536\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-at-eighteen-years-old_courtesy-of-Leigh-estate-1-800x800.jpg\" alt=\"Black and white portrait of a young woman's face.\" width=\"800\" height=\"800\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-at-eighteen-years-old_courtesy-of-Leigh-estate-1-800x800.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-at-eighteen-years-old_courtesy-of-Leigh-estate-1-160x160.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-at-eighteen-years-old_courtesy-of-Leigh-estate-1.jpg 891w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Carol Leigh, at 18 years old, in Queens, New York \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Carol Leigh estate)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“There were problems within feminism that I hadn’t really understood in regards to sexual expression and sexual identity,” Leigh recalled.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At this point, Leigh wasn’t a sex worker yet, but she was drawn to it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She said the feminist movement, which taught her that all men oppressed women, led her to repress her sexual desires. “I thought that was capitulating to the patriarchy,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It wouldn’t be until her mid-20s, when Leigh moved to San Francisco, that she seriously considered sex work. She asked friends about the city’s massage parlor scene in the Tenderloin neighborhood. Leigh said she saw storefronts with signs that said “sex, massage, girls” in the neighborhood. She walked into one, a massage parlor called The Hong Kong on Jones Street.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I had heard once you agreed to sell it, you crossed a line,” Leigh wrote in her book. “There was no turning back. I couldn’t resist. I took the dare.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After her first day at work, she said she rode the BART train home and recalls looking at her reflection in the train car window. She looked at herself and said proudly, “Now there’s a prostitute.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Leigh and other sex workers she met say they enjoyed the financial stability and flexibility that came with sex work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It worked well for me with the work/life balance,” said Kate Marquez, a former sex worker at The Hong Kong and a good friend of Leigh’s. Marquez worked to support her 8-year-old daughter while putting herself through school. “Doing sex work was a great choice. I found this thing that actually worked for me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Leigh was fascinated by the strong way many of the workers at The Hong Kong dealt with sex work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I met women who seemed like they were robust, rebellious and funny. And this is not what I expected,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Leigh’s budding activism for sex work\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Except for certain parts of Nevada, prostitution laws make full-service sex work illegal throughout the country. Public attitudes about fully decriminalizing sex work have swung back and forth over the years, in part because of the work of the sex worker rights movement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the center of that movement in San Francisco was \u003ca href=\"https://diva.sfsu.edu/collections/sfbatv/bundles/191566\">Margo St. James\u003c/a>. She was a media darling and former sex worker turned activist who made sex work a labor issue. She fought for decriminalizing prostitution.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 1973, St. James helped found Call Off Your Old Tired Ethics or \u003ca href=\"https://www.radcliffe.harvard.edu/schlesinger-library/collections/margo-st-james-and-coyote\">COYOTE\u003c/a>, a sex worker rights activist group. COYOTE meetings were a safe space for sex workers to trade notes on clients and warn each other about undercover cops.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Soon after Leigh and Marquez became good friends at The Hong Kong, they began attending COYOTE meetings together. Leigh was immediately drawn to St. James’s sex-positive take on feminism, which imagined a fully empowered woman able to make any choices she desired.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She made feminism make sense to me,” Leigh said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A central focus for COYOTE was advocating for the decriminalization of sex work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I worked at a massage parlor for a few months, but of course, the place got busted,” said Annie Sprinkle, a former adult film star from New York and another friend of Leigh’s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Massage parlors have often been targets of undercover police stings. If a sex worker solicits an undercover cop, the parlor could be shut down. Advocates and former law enforcement have said these “\u003ca href=\"https://filtermag.org/decriminalize-sex-work/\">drug war tactics\u003c/a>” don’t do much to stop illegal sex work. Workers often return to other parlors or continue sex work in other ways that are potentially more dangerous.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>From the pleasurable to the political\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>While Leigh was coming into her own as a sex worker and becoming more active with COYOTE, she wrote poetry and performed for audiences in coffee shops. She started taking acting classes with a teacher named Joya Cory.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cory said Leigh was open with her classmates about her life as a sex worker and had a great stage presence. A year later, Leigh shared that she was working on a project based on the poems she had written – a play about her life as a sex worker.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She told me about it, and she said, ‘Would you like to direct it?’ And it was about her career as a call girl,” Cory said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cory had never directed anything professionally before, but the material excited her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11998542\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 575px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot_This-Paper-Bag_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-e1722557982488.png\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11998542\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot_This-Paper-Bag_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-e1722557982488.png\" alt='Black and white image of a woman on the stage in a theater. She is lifting a paper bag off her head that reads \"This paper bag represents the anonymity that prostitutes are forced to adopt.\"' width=\"575\" height=\"766\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot_This-Paper-Bag_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-e1722557982488.png 575w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot_This-Paper-Bag_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-e1722557982488-160x213.png 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 575px) 100vw, 575px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Carol playing Scarlot in The Adventures of Scarlot Harlot at the National Festival of Women’s Theater in Santa Cruz in 1983. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Carol Leigh estate)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The play became a one-woman show called \u003cem>The Adventures of Scarlot Harlot\u003c/em>. Leigh would play Scarlot Harlot, a character she created that was an alter ego of her sex worker persona. She chose to spell the name Scarlot instead of Scarlet to suggest a ‘lot of scars.’\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although Leigh dyed her hair deep red for the role, Cory said the name Scarlot suited who she truly was, both on and off stage. “Carol was kind of a vanilla name. And Scarlot was not vanilla, she was anything but vanilla.” Scarlot wore sequin costumes, boas, wigs and occasionally lingerie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite Scarlot’s playful nature, Leigh wanted the character to deliver a political message in her play. She aimed to introduce audiences to the term “sex worker” and demystify their work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This paper bag symbolizes the anonymity prostitutes are forced to adopt!” Scarlot shouts at the top of the play with a paper bag overhead. Then she rips it off.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We won’t remain anonymous. Sex workers unite!”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In another scene from the play, Scarlot is appalled after learning the definition of prostitution. “The act of selling one’s talents for an unworthy cause,” she reads aloud. “Well, that definition tarnishes my reputation!”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11998352\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11998352\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot-800x544.jpg\" alt=\"Black and white image of a woman reading a book. She is sitting crooked on a chair with her knees pulled up and feet in the air. Beneath her is a striking checkerboard floor.\" width=\"800\" height=\"544\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot-800x544.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot-1020x694.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot-160x109.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot-1536x1045.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Carol Leigh, as Scarlot, reads the definition of prostitution in ‘The Adventures of Scarlot Harlot’ in 1983. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Carol Leigh estate)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Cory said Scarlot would turn to the audience and ask if they had ever done anything for money that went against their core values. “Half of them would raise their hands. And she’d say, ‘Ah! That’s prostitution,’” Cory said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The play toured the Bay Area for about four years. It was part of the National Festival of Women’s Theater in Santa Cruz and Scarlot even performed on a bill alongside Whoopi Goldberg.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s really hard to do political art and make it interesting. And she did that,” Cory said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Leigh had ambitions of taking \u003cem>The Adventures of Scarlot Harlot\u003c/em> off-Broadway in New York. But the play closed in 1984, and by the mid-1980s, the AIDS crisis was in full swing. Leigh made the hard decision to put her play on hold and focused on AIDS activism.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Sex workers and AIDS activism\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>At the beginning of the AIDS epidemic, there was a lot of confusion about how the virus spread. Lawmakers across the country went into a panic and started drafting laws to criminalize people who might spread the infection in hopes of stopping it. They put sex workers in that group.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was a very scary time for sex workers,” Leigh said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She joined Citizens for Medical Justice, an early AIDS awareness group in San Francisco, before joining ACT UP.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 1988, Leigh and members of COYOTE lobbied against a bill that required sex workers who were arrested to be tested for HIV. If they were positive, they could face criminal charges.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This means that if a prostitute is convicted and she is antibody positive if she even does a hand job, she can actually be convicted of a felony,” Leigh explained to a reporter at the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She and other members of COYOTE spoke to lawmakers and protested outside the Capitol in Sacramento.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Carol Leigh was very interested in women’s body autonomy,” Sprinkle said. “Whether that was abortion, or the right to a clean needle, or the right to do sex work. She felt a woman should have agency. Who she wants to have sex with, who she wants to go out with. And she should be safe.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite their efforts, the \u003ca href=\"https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-01-26-mn-38568-story.html\">bill was signed into law\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Leigh wouldn’t see her activism pay off for \u003ca href=\"https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2018/12/11/successful-hiv-criminalization-reform-in-california-q-and-a-with-sen-scott-wiener/\">almost 30 years later\u003c/a>. In 2017, the state legislature repealed the law along with other similar HIV criminalization laws like it and annulled all previous convictions for sex workers affected by it.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>A new chapter for Scarlot Harlot\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>That experience had galvanized Leigh and showed her that to win the rights of sex workers, she needed to take Scarlot to new heights. She did talk show appearances, spoke on panels at universities, wrote music about safe sex and traveled the world as Scarlot Harlot, meeting with sex worker groups in Taiwan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over time, the term “sex worker” would appear in academic journals and public health studies because of advocacy from COYOTE members Margo St. James and Priscilla Alexander. However, it was Leigh’s character, Scarlot Harlot, who would popularize it within the sex worker community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I just thought that I was doing something dirty, secretive and shameful,” said Savannah Sly, co-founder of New Moon Network, a philanthropic organization for sex worker activists. As a sex worker, Sly said she looked up to Scarlot Harlot. “[She] gave me a word that was dignified and described it as a labor form.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sly adds that Leigh knew there was \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclusocal.org/en/know-your-rights/sex-worker-rights-california\">always work to be done\u003c/a> in the sex worker community. That included recognizing that the term “sex worker” is not a one-size-fits-all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As the movement evolves, I’ve seen erotic laborers, professional lovers, exotic dancers, adult content creators,” she said. Sex work will always be the root of these professions, Sly said, but adds, “Not all sex workers are comfortable with the phrase ‘sex work’ because it does sound like it describes prostitution.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Friends of Leigh said she was always learning from younger sex worker activists and recognized that not all sex workers have the same experiences and many come to the profession from different backgrounds or for different reasons.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11998543\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-with-Santa_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-estate.jpeg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11998543\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-with-Santa_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-estate-800x533.jpeg\" alt=\"A woman in a strapless red dress with a red feathered hat cuddles up next to a man dressed as Santa Claus.\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-with-Santa_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-estate-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-with-Santa_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-estate-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-with-Santa_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-estate-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-with-Santa_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-estate.jpeg 1280w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A Christmas card from Scarlot Harlot \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Carol Leigh estate)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Leigh cements her legacy\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>In 1999, Leigh helped create the Sex Worker Film and Arts Festival or Sex Worker Fest. The film festival features independent films from sex workers, workshops and community events throughout San Francisco. Elizabeth Dayton, the current Director of Sex Fest, said Leigh thought it was important for sex workers to be able to share their own stories in “a dedicated space for the community to celebrate their art.” The festival runs every two years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That same year, Leigh, Margo St. James and members of COYOTE started the St. James Infirmary clinic in the Tenderloin. This free clinic, the first of its kind in the country, offered confidential medical and legal services to sex workers in the Bay Area and housing assistance for the trans community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the early 1990s, Carol Leigh started working with Joseph Kramer, a sexologist and sex educator. They made hundreds of sex education videos that focused on sexual massage for couples. The job allowed Leigh to hone her video editing skills.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She kept a record of her work by filming her own activism, then producing interviews and short documentaries. Her archives can be found at the Schlesinger Library on the History of Women in America at Harvard University alongside those of Margo St. James.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11998541\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-grey-hair.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11998541\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-grey-hair-800x800.jpg\" alt=\"Portrait of a middle aged woman with wavy grey hair in a leather jacket.\" width=\"800\" height=\"800\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-grey-hair-800x800.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-grey-hair-160x160.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-grey-hair.jpg 986w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A portrait of Carol Leigh \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Carol Leigh estate)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Leigh died from cancer on Nov. 16, 2022. She was surrounded and supported by her close friends, Beth Stephens, Annie Sprinkle and Kate Marquez, in the final days of her life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I got to go over there and be with her body and put some flowers on her,” Sprinkle said. “And be there when they rolled her out in a red velvet body bag. She did a really good job planning for her death. Amazingly well.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Before she died, Carol established a trust, one that she didn’t tell anybody about. It included an inheritance from her mother, who supported her daughter’s sex worker career from the beginning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The beneficiaries included 86 different sex workers and sex worker organizations in need, including the New Moon Network, Third Wave Sex Worker Giving Circle and Red Umbrella Fund.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“[It] was amazing to see this person who never made a lot of money become a big philanthropist,” said Kate Marquez, now the executor of Leigh’s estate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Annie Sprinkle said Carol Leigh never stopped trying to keep sex workers safe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She was a whore mentor and a whore mother to many sex workers. She was truly the whore with a heart of gold.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11998544\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 756px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-Art-Print.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11998544\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-Art-Print.jpg\" alt=\"Art print of a woman with curly red hair, a red feathered hat and red lipstick.\" width=\"756\" height=\"1006\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-Art-Print.jpg 756w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-Art-Print-160x213.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 756px) 100vw, 756px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An art print of Scarlot Harlot created by Carol Leigh’s friend and fellow sex worker, Annie Sprinkle. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Annie Sprinkle)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11998339/transcript-scarlot-harlot-made-sex-worker-rights-her-lifes-work\">Read a transcript of this episode.\u003c/a> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you look up Carol Leigh or “Scarlot Harlot” online, you’ll learn that she’s credited with coining the term “sex worker.” Today, it’s used by activists, public health officials, lawmakers and the media to describe those working in the sex industry, and it’s revolutionized the way we talk about the profession.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The term came to Leigh in 1978 when she attended a workshop hosted by a group of feminists in San Francisco. The group, Women Against Violence in Pornography and Media or WAVPM, thought all women in the sex industry were being oppressed by men and held \u003ca href=\"https://www.thecut.com/2019/03/sex-lies-and-andrea-dworkin.html\">anti-sex work points of view\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" loading=\"lazy\" />\n What do you wonder about the Bay Area, its culture or people that you want KQED to investigate?\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Ask Bay Curious.\u003c/a>\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp> Leigh was familiar with this argument, but she made it a point to understand their opposing perspective. She writes in her memoir “Unrepentant Whore: The Collected Works of Scarlot Harlot” that she identified herself as a prostitute to the group. She said the name of the workshop referenced the “sex use industry.” That name embarrassed her. So, she spoke out against it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If we’re a feminist, we should be defining it not by what the men do – the men use the services – but by what the women do. Women do sex work,” Leigh recalls saying. She said she didn’t remember anyone objecting to her reasoning.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Getting into the Business\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Leigh grew up in Queens, New York, with parents who were part of the Socialist Party. She refers to herself as a “red diaper baby.” While growing up in the 1970s, she and her mother became avid feminists. She loved the movement, but, Leigh said, feminism wasn’t a perfect fit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11998536\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-at-eighteen-years-old_courtesy-of-Leigh-estate-1.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11998536\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-at-eighteen-years-old_courtesy-of-Leigh-estate-1-800x800.jpg\" alt=\"Black and white portrait of a young woman's face.\" width=\"800\" height=\"800\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-at-eighteen-years-old_courtesy-of-Leigh-estate-1-800x800.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-at-eighteen-years-old_courtesy-of-Leigh-estate-1-160x160.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-at-eighteen-years-old_courtesy-of-Leigh-estate-1.jpg 891w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Carol Leigh, at 18 years old, in Queens, New York \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Carol Leigh estate)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“There were problems within feminism that I hadn’t really understood in regards to sexual expression and sexual identity,” Leigh recalled.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At this point, Leigh wasn’t a sex worker yet, but she was drawn to it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She said the feminist movement, which taught her that all men oppressed women, led her to repress her sexual desires. “I thought that was capitulating to the patriarchy,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It wouldn’t be until her mid-20s, when Leigh moved to San Francisco, that she seriously considered sex work. She asked friends about the city’s massage parlor scene in the Tenderloin neighborhood. Leigh said she saw storefronts with signs that said “sex, massage, girls” in the neighborhood. She walked into one, a massage parlor called The Hong Kong on Jones Street.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I had heard once you agreed to sell it, you crossed a line,” Leigh wrote in her book. “There was no turning back. I couldn’t resist. I took the dare.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After her first day at work, she said she rode the BART train home and recalls looking at her reflection in the train car window. She looked at herself and said proudly, “Now there’s a prostitute.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Leigh and other sex workers she met say they enjoyed the financial stability and flexibility that came with sex work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It worked well for me with the work/life balance,” said Kate Marquez, a former sex worker at The Hong Kong and a good friend of Leigh’s. Marquez worked to support her 8-year-old daughter while putting herself through school. “Doing sex work was a great choice. I found this thing that actually worked for me.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Leigh was fascinated by the strong way many of the workers at The Hong Kong dealt with sex work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I met women who seemed like they were robust, rebellious and funny. And this is not what I expected,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Leigh’s budding activism for sex work\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Except for certain parts of Nevada, prostitution laws make full-service sex work illegal throughout the country. Public attitudes about fully decriminalizing sex work have swung back and forth over the years, in part because of the work of the sex worker rights movement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the center of that movement in San Francisco was \u003ca href=\"https://diva.sfsu.edu/collections/sfbatv/bundles/191566\">Margo St. James\u003c/a>. She was a media darling and former sex worker turned activist who made sex work a labor issue. She fought for decriminalizing prostitution.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 1973, St. James helped found Call Off Your Old Tired Ethics or \u003ca href=\"https://www.radcliffe.harvard.edu/schlesinger-library/collections/margo-st-james-and-coyote\">COYOTE\u003c/a>, a sex worker rights activist group. COYOTE meetings were a safe space for sex workers to trade notes on clients and warn each other about undercover cops.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Soon after Leigh and Marquez became good friends at The Hong Kong, they began attending COYOTE meetings together. Leigh was immediately drawn to St. James’s sex-positive take on feminism, which imagined a fully empowered woman able to make any choices she desired.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She made feminism make sense to me,” Leigh said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A central focus for COYOTE was advocating for the decriminalization of sex work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I worked at a massage parlor for a few months, but of course, the place got busted,” said Annie Sprinkle, a former adult film star from New York and another friend of Leigh’s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Massage parlors have often been targets of undercover police stings. If a sex worker solicits an undercover cop, the parlor could be shut down. Advocates and former law enforcement have said these “\u003ca href=\"https://filtermag.org/decriminalize-sex-work/\">drug war tactics\u003c/a>” don’t do much to stop illegal sex work. Workers often return to other parlors or continue sex work in other ways that are potentially more dangerous.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>From the pleasurable to the political\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>While Leigh was coming into her own as a sex worker and becoming more active with COYOTE, she wrote poetry and performed for audiences in coffee shops. She started taking acting classes with a teacher named Joya Cory.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cory said Leigh was open with her classmates about her life as a sex worker and had a great stage presence. A year later, Leigh shared that she was working on a project based on the poems she had written – a play about her life as a sex worker.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She told me about it, and she said, ‘Would you like to direct it?’ And it was about her career as a call girl,” Cory said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cory had never directed anything professionally before, but the material excited her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11998542\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 575px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot_This-Paper-Bag_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-e1722557982488.png\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11998542\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot_This-Paper-Bag_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-e1722557982488.png\" alt='Black and white image of a woman on the stage in a theater. She is lifting a paper bag off her head that reads \"This paper bag represents the anonymity that prostitutes are forced to adopt.\"' width=\"575\" height=\"766\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot_This-Paper-Bag_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-e1722557982488.png 575w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot_This-Paper-Bag_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-e1722557982488-160x213.png 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 575px) 100vw, 575px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Carol playing Scarlot in The Adventures of Scarlot Harlot at the National Festival of Women’s Theater in Santa Cruz in 1983. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Carol Leigh estate)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The play became a one-woman show called \u003cem>The Adventures of Scarlot Harlot\u003c/em>. Leigh would play Scarlot Harlot, a character she created that was an alter ego of her sex worker persona. She chose to spell the name Scarlot instead of Scarlet to suggest a ‘lot of scars.’\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although Leigh dyed her hair deep red for the role, Cory said the name Scarlot suited who she truly was, both on and off stage. “Carol was kind of a vanilla name. And Scarlot was not vanilla, she was anything but vanilla.” Scarlot wore sequin costumes, boas, wigs and occasionally lingerie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite Scarlot’s playful nature, Leigh wanted the character to deliver a political message in her play. She aimed to introduce audiences to the term “sex worker” and demystify their work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This paper bag symbolizes the anonymity prostitutes are forced to adopt!” Scarlot shouts at the top of the play with a paper bag overhead. Then she rips it off.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We won’t remain anonymous. Sex workers unite!”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In another scene from the play, Scarlot is appalled after learning the definition of prostitution. “The act of selling one’s talents for an unworthy cause,” she reads aloud. “Well, that definition tarnishes my reputation!”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11998352\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11998352\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot-800x544.jpg\" alt=\"Black and white image of a woman reading a book. She is sitting crooked on a chair with her knees pulled up and feet in the air. Beneath her is a striking checkerboard floor.\" width=\"800\" height=\"544\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot-800x544.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot-1020x694.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot-160x109.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot-1536x1045.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/ScarlotHarlot.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Carol Leigh, as Scarlot, reads the definition of prostitution in ‘The Adventures of Scarlot Harlot’ in 1983. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Carol Leigh estate)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Cory said Scarlot would turn to the audience and ask if they had ever done anything for money that went against their core values. “Half of them would raise their hands. And she’d say, ‘Ah! That’s prostitution,’” Cory said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The play toured the Bay Area for about four years. It was part of the National Festival of Women’s Theater in Santa Cruz and Scarlot even performed on a bill alongside Whoopi Goldberg.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s really hard to do political art and make it interesting. And she did that,” Cory said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Leigh had ambitions of taking \u003cem>The Adventures of Scarlot Harlot\u003c/em> off-Broadway in New York. But the play closed in 1984, and by the mid-1980s, the AIDS crisis was in full swing. Leigh made the hard decision to put her play on hold and focused on AIDS activism.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Sex workers and AIDS activism\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>At the beginning of the AIDS epidemic, there was a lot of confusion about how the virus spread. Lawmakers across the country went into a panic and started drafting laws to criminalize people who might spread the infection in hopes of stopping it. They put sex workers in that group.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was a very scary time for sex workers,” Leigh said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She joined Citizens for Medical Justice, an early AIDS awareness group in San Francisco, before joining ACT UP.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 1988, Leigh and members of COYOTE lobbied against a bill that required sex workers who were arrested to be tested for HIV. If they were positive, they could face criminal charges.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This means that if a prostitute is convicted and she is antibody positive if she even does a hand job, she can actually be convicted of a felony,” Leigh explained to a reporter at the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She and other members of COYOTE spoke to lawmakers and protested outside the Capitol in Sacramento.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Carol Leigh was very interested in women’s body autonomy,” Sprinkle said. “Whether that was abortion, or the right to a clean needle, or the right to do sex work. She felt a woman should have agency. Who she wants to have sex with, who she wants to go out with. And she should be safe.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite their efforts, the \u003ca href=\"https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-01-26-mn-38568-story.html\">bill was signed into law\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Leigh wouldn’t see her activism pay off for \u003ca href=\"https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2018/12/11/successful-hiv-criminalization-reform-in-california-q-and-a-with-sen-scott-wiener/\">almost 30 years later\u003c/a>. In 2017, the state legislature repealed the law along with other similar HIV criminalization laws like it and annulled all previous convictions for sex workers affected by it.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>A new chapter for Scarlot Harlot\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>That experience had galvanized Leigh and showed her that to win the rights of sex workers, she needed to take Scarlot to new heights. She did talk show appearances, spoke on panels at universities, wrote music about safe sex and traveled the world as Scarlot Harlot, meeting with sex worker groups in Taiwan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over time, the term “sex worker” would appear in academic journals and public health studies because of advocacy from COYOTE members Margo St. James and Priscilla Alexander. However, it was Leigh’s character, Scarlot Harlot, who would popularize it within the sex worker community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I just thought that I was doing something dirty, secretive and shameful,” said Savannah Sly, co-founder of New Moon Network, a philanthropic organization for sex worker activists. As a sex worker, Sly said she looked up to Scarlot Harlot. “[She] gave me a word that was dignified and described it as a labor form.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sly adds that Leigh knew there was \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclusocal.org/en/know-your-rights/sex-worker-rights-california\">always work to be done\u003c/a> in the sex worker community. That included recognizing that the term “sex worker” is not a one-size-fits-all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As the movement evolves, I’ve seen erotic laborers, professional lovers, exotic dancers, adult content creators,” she said. Sex work will always be the root of these professions, Sly said, but adds, “Not all sex workers are comfortable with the phrase ‘sex work’ because it does sound like it describes prostitution.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Friends of Leigh said she was always learning from younger sex worker activists and recognized that not all sex workers have the same experiences and many come to the profession from different backgrounds or for different reasons.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11998543\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-with-Santa_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-estate.jpeg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11998543\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-with-Santa_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-estate-800x533.jpeg\" alt=\"A woman in a strapless red dress with a red feathered hat cuddles up next to a man dressed as Santa Claus.\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-with-Santa_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-estate-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-with-Santa_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-estate-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-with-Santa_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-estate-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-with-Santa_courtesy-of-Carol-Leigh-estate.jpeg 1280w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A Christmas card from Scarlot Harlot \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Carol Leigh estate)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Leigh cements her legacy\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>In 1999, Leigh helped create the Sex Worker Film and Arts Festival or Sex Worker Fest. The film festival features independent films from sex workers, workshops and community events throughout San Francisco. Elizabeth Dayton, the current Director of Sex Fest, said Leigh thought it was important for sex workers to be able to share their own stories in “a dedicated space for the community to celebrate their art.” The festival runs every two years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That same year, Leigh, Margo St. James and members of COYOTE started the St. James Infirmary clinic in the Tenderloin. This free clinic, the first of its kind in the country, offered confidential medical and legal services to sex workers in the Bay Area and housing assistance for the trans community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the early 1990s, Carol Leigh started working with Joseph Kramer, a sexologist and sex educator. They made hundreds of sex education videos that focused on sexual massage for couples. The job allowed Leigh to hone her video editing skills.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She kept a record of her work by filming her own activism, then producing interviews and short documentaries. Her archives can be found at the Schlesinger Library on the History of Women in America at Harvard University alongside those of Margo St. James.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11998541\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-grey-hair.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-11998541\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-grey-hair-800x800.jpg\" alt=\"Portrait of a middle aged woman with wavy grey hair in a leather jacket.\" width=\"800\" height=\"800\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-grey-hair-800x800.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-grey-hair-160x160.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Carol-Leigh-grey-hair.jpg 986w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A portrait of Carol Leigh \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Carol Leigh estate)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Leigh died from cancer on Nov. 16, 2022. She was surrounded and supported by her close friends, Beth Stephens, Annie Sprinkle and Kate Marquez, in the final days of her life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I got to go over there and be with her body and put some flowers on her,” Sprinkle said. “And be there when they rolled her out in a red velvet body bag. She did a really good job planning for her death. Amazingly well.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Before she died, Carol established a trust, one that she didn’t tell anybody about. It included an inheritance from her mother, who supported her daughter’s sex worker career from the beginning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The beneficiaries included 86 different sex workers and sex worker organizations in need, including the New Moon Network, Third Wave Sex Worker Giving Circle and Red Umbrella Fund.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“[It] was amazing to see this person who never made a lot of money become a big philanthropist,” said Kate Marquez, now the executor of Leigh’s estate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Annie Sprinkle said Carol Leigh never stopped trying to keep sex workers safe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She was a whore mentor and a whore mother to many sex workers. She was truly the whore with a heart of gold.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11998544\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 756px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-Art-Print.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11998544\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-Art-Print.jpg\" alt=\"Art print of a woman with curly red hair, a red feathered hat and red lipstick.\" width=\"756\" height=\"1006\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-Art-Print.jpg 756w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/Scarlot-Art-Print-160x213.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 756px) 100vw, 756px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An art print of Scarlot Harlot created by Carol Leigh’s friend and fellow sex worker, Annie Sprinkle. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Annie Sprinkle)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"slug": "cashing-in-on-californias-broken-bottle-deposit-system",
"title": "Cashing In on the Future of California's Bottle Deposit System",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cem>Read a transcript of this episode\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Paul Beach was a kid growing up in Maine, he remembers going to a recycling center that was part of a grocery store. He watched people walk into this large space with garbage bags full of bottles and cans. And when he noticed they were walking out with cash, he wanted in on the hustle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I would have like $50 in cans. It took me a while to get that much, but it was pretty good income for, like, a 10-year-old,” Beach said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Maine and California are two states with \u003ca href=\"https://www.bottlebill.org/index.php/current-and-proposed-laws/usa/california\">a Bottle Bill\u003c/a>, a law that encourages recycling for money. When Beach moved to California, where he’s lived for the past 25 years, he looked up the closest redemption center to him in Oakland and discovered it was 5 miles away. A place called Cash for Cans.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For Beach, it’s not worth storing several bags of containers in his apartment for a single trip. Instead, he puts his recyclables in the blue bin on the street.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This experience had him wondering: Where does the money go for bottle-and-can redemption if residents don’t turn them into a recycling center? And why is it so hard to recycle them in the first place?\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>The Bottle Bill\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The money Beach is talking about is the California Redemption Value, or CRV — and it’s not exactly free. Whenever someone buys a drink from the store with the letters CRV printed on the label, they’re paying a 5-to-10-cent deposit at the checkout line. To get that deposit back, they have to recycle those containers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This applies mostly to beverages that come in aluminum cans and plastic bottles. The whole point is to encourage recycling and reduce litter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 1986, the state passed the California Beverage Container Recycling and Litter Reduction Act, also known as the Bottle Bill. The law created the recycling deposit system many use today. California is also one of 10 states in the country with a Bottle Bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Susan V. Collins, president of the Container Recycling Institute in Culver City, calls Bottle Bills “the rock stars of recycling” because of the financial incentive behind them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriouspodcastinfo]“People either hold onto their bottle and turn it in for the 5 cents, or if they do litter it, someone else picks it up and takes it in for recycling,” Collins said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since passing its Bottle Bill, California has had a good track record with the number of recycled and redeemed containers. One out of five beverage containers recycled in the U.S. \u003ca href=\"https://www.bottlebill.org/index.php/current-and-proposed-laws/usa/california\">are recycled in California\u003c/a>, according to the Container Recycling Institute.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But recycling containers isn’t the same as redeeming them for cash. As redemption centers closed across the state, Californians were left with fewer options to redeem their bottles and cans. According to CRI, the state’s redemption rates have fallen from 74% to 60% in the past decade.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11962004\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2023/09/21/cashing-in-on-californias-broken-bottle-deposit-system/bottles-ready-to-be-recycled-at-the-recycling-center-at-church-on-market-streets-in-san-francisco-calif-on-friday-august-9-2013-safeway-is-going-to-shut-down-its-recyling-center-here-by-septemb/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-11962004\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11962004\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1321630841-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"two bins of glass bottles and cans\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1321630841-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1321630841-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1321630841-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1321630841-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1321630841-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1321630841-2048x1365.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1321630841-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Bottles ready to be recycled at the recycling center at Church and Market streets in San Francisco. \u003ccite>(Liz Hafalia/The San Francisco Chronicle via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Redemption center deserts\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>When the Bottle Bill was passed in the 1980s it depended on California’s current recycling center infrastructure. Recycling centers were now obligated to give people back their money for bottles and cans.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Most of these businesses created partnerships with grocery stores to establish convenience for consumers looking for a place to recycle. They set up shop in the parking lots of a store much like the one from Beach’s childhood.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But when revenue started to plummet at these locations because of the falling price of scrap material, many shuttered.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since 2013, more than 40% of \u003ca href=\"https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/cash-in-the-can-californias-recycling-run-around/2055057/\">these recycling centers\u003c/a> have closed across the state. Collins said the Bay Area is the epicenter of these closures affecting a majority of people who depend on these centers for extra income.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“California has the least convenient system in the world right now because of these redemption deserts,” Collins said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the ’90s, San Francisco once had about 35 redemption centers scattered throughout the city. Today, there are only two and both are located in the Bayview District. CalRecycle \u003ca href=\"https://www2.calrecycle.ca.gov/BevContainer/RecyclingCenters/\">lists about 1,200 redemption centers\u003c/a> left in the state.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Abandoned deposits\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>When bottles and cans end up in landfills and not redeemed, those deposits are considered “unclaimed” by the state. This unclaimed money sits in the Beverage Container Fund, which is managed by CalRecycle. About 400 people in the state agency who work in the beverage container program are paid out of unclaimed deposits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The money is supposed to be used to subsidize the state’s recycling infrastructure to help people get their money back. But for the most part, it stays untouched in the beverage container fund.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote size=\"medium\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Susan V. Collins, president, Container Recycling Institute\"]‘California has the least convenient system in the world right now because of these redemption deserts.’[/pullquote]Some of the unclaimed deposits are paid out to redemption centers, but not a whole lot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In California, where many rely on blue recycling bins, waste hauling companies get to cash in on the CRV money attached to those bottles and cans thrown out. Collins said only a small percentage of those recyclables are redeemed because waste haulers don’t always do a perfect job of sorting through the recycling. Inevitably, a lot of it ends up in landfill. Last year, only 13% were redeemed for CRV.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Collins said, as of last summer, the beverage container fund accumulated $672 million. She indicated that the high balance was a partial failure on behalf of the program.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Consumer advocates argue that redemption center closures and allowing waste haulers to take residents’ CRV is hurting consumers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s turned into a tax because we don’t have any place to take those bottles and cans to get those dimes and nickels back. That’s the fundamental problem,” said Liza Tucker, consumer advocate for Consumer Watchdog.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She added that working-class communities who \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11714223/when-recycling-pays-and-when-it-doesnt\">depend on recycling to pay bills\u003c/a> are hurting the most.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They actually need cash. They need to fill their tanks with gas. They need to buy food,” Tucker said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>The in-lieu-fee loophole\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Under the Bottle Bill, retailers that sell beverages are required to recycle those beverages if there’s no recycling center nearby. The law was designed for the sake of convenience. But California’s Bottle Bill gives stores the option of paying out of their responsibility to recycle and redeem drink containers. This is known as the “in-lieu fee,” a penalty in lieu of redeeming empty containers — a $100 fee for each day the store is not taking back recyclables.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In some cases, stores \u003ca href=\"https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/10/business/cvs-3-6-million-fine-california-recycling-trnd/index.html#:~:text=California%20is%20slapping%20CVS%20with,its%20residents%2C%20the%20state%20said\">try to get away with not paying the in-lieu fees at all\u003c/a>. In response, CalRecycle Director Rachel Machi Wagoner said, “It’s incredibly hard to ensure that retailers who say they are taking back in store or are paying the in-lieu fee, are doing exactly what they’re saying.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11962006\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2023/09/21/cashing-in-on-californias-broken-bottle-deposit-system/customers-line-up-to-have-bottles-and-cans-weighed-before-they-receive-a-cash-payment-at-the-our-planet-recycling-collection-center-on-bayshore-boulevard-in-san-francisco-calif-on-thursday-aug-3-2/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-11962006\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11962006\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1408767999-1-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"people lined up outside a recycling center with trash bags full of recyclable bottles and cans\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1722\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1408767999-1-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1408767999-1-800x538.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1408767999-1-1020x686.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1408767999-1-160x108.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1408767999-1-1536x1033.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1408767999-1-2048x1377.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1408767999-1-1920x1291.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Customers line up to have bottles and cans weighed before they receive a cash payment at the Our Planet Recycling collection center on Bayshore Boulevard in San Francisco in 2017. Independent recycling centers are struggling to stay open saying the state subsidies aren’t enough to keep them in business. \u003ccite>(Paul Chinn/The San Francisco Chronicle via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Lawmakers know the system isn’t working\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>In 2019, the state put aside $5 million to pilot new ways to recycle and redeem our bottles and cans.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One of those pilot programs is called \u003ca href=\"https://sfbottlebank.org/\">BottleBank\u003c/a> in San Francisco. After downloading the app, consumers drop off their containers to any BottleBank mobile drop-off location and then their recyclables get taken to an offsite recycling center for sorting. The CRV is tallied up and the money is electronically delivered to the person’s bank account.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Our ultimate goal for CRV is to rapidly increase how many people are redeeming. … getting more money back into people’s pockets,” said Charles Sheehan, chief policy and public affairs officer with San Francisco’s Department of the Environment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since the program kicked off last year, Sheehan said the department recycled more than 3 million bottles and cans and paid out about $190,000 in CRV as of this summer. There are currently \u003ca href=\"https://sfbottlebank.org/locations/\">20 BottleBank sites\u003c/a> set up around the city with many found parked outside Safeway, Whole Foods and Grocery Outlet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousbug]Consumer advocates, however, aren’t happy with the program, saying the pilot is benefiting supermarkets more than consumers. CalRecycle lists the BottleBank sites on its website as certified recycling centers. Under the Bottle Bill, grocery stores within a certain mile radius of a recycling center don’t have to pay in-lieu fees or take back in store.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“So the minute that they approved this particular pilot, 400 stores got off the hook,” Tucker of Consumer Watchdog said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Consumer Watchdog added that BottleBank is not recycling enough, because the sites are only open one day out of the week for several hours a day and the program is costing taxpayers too much to operate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After analyzing BottleBank’s expenses, Consumer Watchdog asked the state’s Department of Finance to no longer fund the program.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It is costing 79 cents to return a nickel to consumers. And it will never be sustainable,” it said in \u003ca href=\"https://consumerwatchdog.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/LtrBottleBankStephenshaw6-19-23.pdf\">a statement (PDF)\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In defense of the program, Sheehan stressed that it’s still in the pilot phase, which means making improvements while incurring costs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re growing, and as we grow we will continue to kind of bring in more revenues and bring our revenues in line with our costs,” Sheehan said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>BottleBank’s costs include renting the grocery store parking lot space for its operations, plus labor, marketing materials and transportation for the bottles and cans to the recycling facility.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to CalRecycle, the state awarded the program $500,000 to expand their services to last until the end of the year. Sheehan said the goal is to get a total of 30 locations running with longer operating hours.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>A new law could change it all\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Other Bottle Bill states like Oregon have a higher redemption rate of 85%. The state has multiple ways to redeem items using reverse vending machines, bag drop programs and in-store take back. The state also utilizes the same app-based technology as BottleBank for consumers to receive their CRV electronically. They can also get a voucher to use at their local grocery store.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Starting in 2025, it’s possible that California can start looking more like Oregon. SB 1013 passed last year and it will require grocery stores with no nearby recycling centers to be responsible for taking back empty beverage containers starting in January 2025. It also removes the optional $100-a-day in-lieu fee and adds wine and spirits to the list of redemption items.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s considered one of the biggest improvements to the Bottle Bill ever. CalRecycle’s Director, Rachel Wagoner, added that the machinery to build this infrastructure will not be cheap.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“So if the state’s gonna purchase it, we wanna make sure that that is a long-term investment that we’re making in the recycling system,” Wagoner said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>CalRecycle is giving out more than $70 million in grant money to large grocery store chains to create this infrastructure. The agency is currently having public workshops with retailers to answer questions about the grant process. The idea is to create large-scale redemption centers with multiple ways to recycle items, while increasing the state’s redemption rate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Still, Wagoner is optimistic that the new law will make a real difference in the number of redeemed containers. And she’s hopeful for 100% redemption.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“And even if I don’t hit 100%, let’s see how close we can get,” Wagoner said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Collins said her organization, the Container Recycling Institute, first advocated for these changes in 2009. She added that if everything goes according to plan California could have a good system in place.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Yet Collins is skeptical about how fast those changes will come. She pointed out that multiple spending programs, and an additional budget bill, passed along with the new law may exceed the resources in the Beverage Container Fund to create the redemption infrastructure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.container-recycling.org/images/2023/CRI_CalRecycle_budget_questions_Sen_06132023.pdf\">In a letter (PDF)\u003c/a> asking the state’s Senate Budget Committee to reconsider how they spend the money, Collins wrote, “The complete implementation of AB 179 and SB 1013 over 6 years will cost the beverage container fund and other accounts roughly $1.3 billion.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We can’t have money going outta the fund to pay for things that are not bottles and cans when that money is needed to give people their nickels and dimes back,” said Collins.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> When Paul Beach was a kid growing up in Maine, he would go to this recycling center that was part of a grocery store. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Beach:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It was a pretty big space in the grocery store. And you just bring your bottles and cans in. and they sorted them, like green bottles went here, white bottles went there, brown bottles went here.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Paul noticed that people would walk into the recycling center with a bag of … well, garbage, essentially. And they would walk out with \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">cash\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. He wanted in on the hustle.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And I would have, like $50 in cans. It took me a while to get that much, but it was pretty good income for like a 10 year old.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That experience taught Paul the literal value of recycling. Every bottle or can was worth up to fifteen cents in Maine because of the state’s\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> bottle bill\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. That’s a law designed to encourage recycling. When Paul moved to California, where we \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">also\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> have a bottle bill, he thought things would work about the same…but his nearest redemption center was far, so he never went … Now, he puts his items on the curb where they’re whisked away by a waste hauling company.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I am pretty sure that the company that I pay to take the recycling fishes through and gets all the cans and they get the money for the cans and bottles. // like, you’re getting paid on both sides. It’s like, this just doesn’t seem fair.\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This has all left him wondering about a few things…\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Where does the money go for bottle and can redemption if we don’t bring the bottles and cans back?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And why is it so hard to find a place to recycle them in the first place?\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music change\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In today’s episode of Bay Curious we dig into how this recycling system works and why some argue it’s seriously broken. Plus: Who’s pocketing the CRV money from California’s unclaimed bottles and cans? I’m Olivia Allen-Price. This is Bay Curious. We’ll be right back.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>SPONSOR MESSAGE\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> To answer Paul’s questions about bottle and can redemption in California … KQED’s Steven Rascón has been following the money. Hey Steven!\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven Rascón:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Hey Olivia.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So Paul’s question is all about CRV. Can you explain what exactly that is?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Sure. CRV stands for California Redemption Value. And it applies to certain bottled and canned drinks you buy from the store. Anytime you buy one of these beverages with the letters CRV engraved on the lid or printed on the label, you’re paying 5-10 cents extra at the checkout line. Paying this extra charge is supposed to work like a deposit. Because once we’re done with that drink, we’re supposed to recycle it and get back those 10 cents.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And this applies specifically to store-bought beverages… so containers of juice, coffee, water, soda …?\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Exactly. This recycling system is part of a law that’s colloquially known as the \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bottle Bill\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. We are one of ten states in the country with a Bottle Bill. Beverage containers specifically, continue to make up roughly half of roadside litter across the country. And so in the 80’s, environmentalists and lawmakers decided to do something about it in California… and pass the Bottle Bill. And recycling experts say this system works.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan Collins:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We know that bottle bills on average, reduce beverage container litter by 50%. So we can keep some of those plastics outta the ocean if we have bottle bills in place. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That’s Susan Collins, she’s the head of the \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Container Recycling Institute\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in Culver City California. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The whole reason bottle bills work like magic, why I call them the rock stars of recycling, is because of the incentive that’s attached to it. because people either hold onto their bottle and turn it in for the 5 cents, or if they do litter it, someone else picks it up and takes it in for recycling.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Since California passed its Bottle Bill, the number of recycled containers has shot up. The Container Recycling Institute says one out of five beverage containers recycled in the US are being recycled in California. But…not all of those bottles and cans are getting redeemed for cash. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And when that happens…that money just stays in what’s called the beverage container fund. A fund that’s owned by the state.\u003c/span>\u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What is the unclaimed money in that fund used for? \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So the unclaimed deposits from those containers, the money \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">that no one’s getting\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> belongs to the state. CalRecycle is the state agency that manages the fund and the program. Susan says there’s a lot of work that goes into it that we don’t see. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Cal Recycle has about 400 people who work on this program, and those people are paid out of the unclaimed deposits. That money is also supposed to be used to create more ways for recycling our items. CalRecycle gives some of that money to recycling centers who redeem our bottles and cans. Some of it goes to waste hauling companies who pick up our blue bins of recyclables.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I know a lot of people, like our question asker Paul and myself, put our bottles and cans in the blue bin on the curb. But who gets the money for those items? Because I know it’s not me! \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">According to CalRecycle, the waste hauling companies that pick up our recycling like Recology get to cash in on the bottles and cans we put in them. We’re actually the only state with a Bottle Bill where this is the case. So Paul’s right when he says waste haulers are getting paid twice. Consumer advocates, by the way, are not happy with this arrangement…\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another issue with the blue bin….is waste haulers don’t do a perfect job of sorting all the recycling. Oftentimes, food and trash will mix with the bottles and cans…and those containers that don’t get redeemed inevitably end up in the landfill.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The Container Recycling Institute says only 13 percent of those bottles and cans being recycled are being redeemed for cash.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So to recap, we’re not getting the money we throw out in blue bins and not all of it is even being recycled. It sounds like everything would be better if took things to the redemption center?\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right but \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If only\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> it were that easy! Yes, redemption centers are the ideal way to recycle our bottles and cans and get our money back. But good luck finding one…\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The Bay Area is like the epicenter of redemption center closures, and it’s the area of the state that has the least availability of centers and the more people dependent on each and every center.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In the 90’s, San Francisco once had about 35 of these centers scattered throughout the city, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">today there are only two\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…both located in the Bayview District. Since 2013 more than forty percent of these centers have closed across the state. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">California has the least convenient system in the world right now because of these redemption deserts. Why they’ve had to close is a whole other story, but in short – prices for recycled materials dropped so much…these businesses couldn’t survive.\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music out\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is all pretty frustrating, and it’s about to get downright infuriating because Californians should, in theory, be able to take our recyclable beverage containers to the grocery store, just like our question asker Paul did when he was growing up in Maine.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right\u003c/span>\u003cb>. \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And technically it’s the law. Under the Bottle Bill supermarkets and retailers that sell beverages \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">are required\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to recycle them and give us back our money. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It should be just as easy to return your bottle or can for redemption as it was to purchase the bottle in the first place. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: But the problem is most supermarkets don’t take our bottles and cans. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Only a small handful actually do. And so if a supermarket refuses to take your empty cans…then they have to pay what’s called…an “in lieu fee.” A penalty in lieu of redeeming empty containers. It’s a hundred dollar fine per day. But this \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">penalty\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> has become a \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">loophole. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For a lot of these stores, $100 a day is a bargain to not have to deal with CRV redemption.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Some stores try \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">to get away\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> without paying the in lieu fees at all. I brought this up to CalRecycle and they said “it’s incredibly hard to ensure that retailers who says they are taking back in store or are paying the in lieu fee, are doing exactly what they’re saying.”\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It sounds like this system is very broken… \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That’s what a lot of people I spoke to have said…And as a result, with fewer ways to redeem our bottles and cans, the pot of nickels and dimes in the state’s fund just keeps growing. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As of the end of June last year, the beverage container fund had accumulated 672 million dollars. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Susan says you need some of that money to keep the program going but… \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You certainly do not wanna have a fund balance that’s close to 700 million that indicates a program partial failure. \u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that …five or ten cents… extra you pay. Consumer advocates say this might not seem like a big deal for some people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The sort of middle class, upper middle class. You know, a lot of them aren’t even aware they’re paying bottle deposits when they go through the line. Um, you know, they’re not even aware.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That’s Liza Tucker, an advocate \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">with Consumer Watchdog\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> who’s written several reports on the state’s recycling and redemption system. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003cb>\u003cbr>\nLiza: \u003c/b>There are a lot of people in the state of California who actually depend on that money. They actually need cash. They need to fill their tanks with gas. They need to buy food. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But if we can’t redeem, we lose money.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s called a refundable deposit because that’s what it’s supposed to be. It’s not supposed to be a tax, but it’s turned into a tax because we don’t have any place to take those bottles and cans to get those dimes and nickels back. That’s the fundamental problem. And so we’re looking at a situation where the system. Is imploding.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This sounds like a huge mess. Has anyone tried to fix this?\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lawmakers know the system isn’t working like it’s supposed to…So in 2019, the state put aside 5 million dollars to pilot new ways to recycle and redeem our bottles and cans. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> One of those pilots is now operating in San Francisco. It’s called Bottle Bank. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It works through an app on your phone. And you have to have an account in order to recycle with them. The app lists their locations and hours. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I grabbed whatever bottles and cans I could find in my apartment…\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sound of collecting of bottles and cans\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steven in scene: There’s probably like 35 cents in here. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And I went to one of their busiest locations outside a Safeway by the beach…to see how their operation works and if I could get some CRV.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steven: “Hello? Hi. How’s it going? Good. Good…Look at all these bags.”\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jon Jon: Yeah. Bottles and cans.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steven: Are these all, all, all from today?\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>Jon Jon: Yes. the morning shift already got about 50, 30, 50 bags.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s a Bottle Bank attendant, his name is Jon Jon, he’s collecting bags…. But these aren’t just your typical trash bags… these blue colored garbage bags have a QR code on them that connect to your Bottle Bank account on your phone. Jon Jon takes my bottles and cans and throws them into one of these bags. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003cb>Jon Jon\u003ci>:\u003c/i>\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then scan every bag\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> He scans the QR code on the bag…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sound of machine beeping\u003c/span>\u003c/em>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then he scans the app on my phone. The bag of cans is now linked to my Bottle Bank account. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Jon: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After this day we bring it to the facility and they will process it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My bag along with the other bags of the day will be taken to an offsite recycling center for sorting. This is Jim, he’s another Bottle Bank attendant.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It distinguishes the material type as well as the size of the container and its value. When we process the bottles and cans. The money goes electronically into the Bottle Bank account. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And after three days, I had about a dollar in my account…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> San Francisco officials who run the program are proud of it. Here is Charles Sheehan, He’s with San Francisco’s Department of the Environment and head of the program.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Charles:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I think it’s kind of brought bottle and canned recycling into the modern age, if you will.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As of this past summer, the department said it recycled more than three million bottles and cans and given out about $190,000 in CRV.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Charles: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When we think about what our ultimate goal is for CRV, is like, to rapidly increase how many people are redeeming, you know, who is redeeming, getting more money back into people’s pockets.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But Liza from Consumer Watchdog says the pilot is not recycling enough because the Bottle Bank sites are only open-one-day-a-week…only several hours a day in select locations. And it’s …costing taxpayers too much to operate. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We are advocating strongly not to finance the mobile experiments because they aren’t penciling out.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After analyzing Bottle Bank’s expenses, Consumer Watchdog asked the state’s Department of Finance to no longer fund the program. Saying, quote: “It is costing 79 cents to return a nickel to consumers. And it will never be sustainable.”\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> These costs include renting out the grocery store parking lots where they’re taking bags. Labor, materials, and transporting the bottes to the facility. But Liza says the biggest problem with Bottle Bank is it’s allowing grocery stores in the city \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">to refuse\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> people’s empty bottles and cans… benefiting supermarkets more than consumers.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Liza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the minute that they approved this particular pilot, 400 stores got off the hook.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That’s cause under the Bottle Bill…if a grocery store is within a certain mile radius of \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">a recycling center then, the store doesn’t have to recycle or redeem any of our bottles and cans…and they don’t have to pay the in lieu fee. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because a stipulation behind all of these pilot programs is that when they say yes to a pilot is in an underserved location it automatically absolves all the supermarkets in the area from either having to take back in store because there’s no redemption center or pay that a hundred dollars a day.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In defense of the program, Charles Sheehan stresses they’re still in the pilot phase, which means making revisions while incurring costs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Charles: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re growing. Um, and as we grow, you know, we will continue to kind of bring in more revenues and bring our revenues in line with our costs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> According to CalRecycle, the state just awarded 500 thousand dollars to expand the program. Sheehan says the goal is to get up to 30 locations running with longer operating hours. Meanwhile, Liza says, the tech Bottle Bank is using isn’t new.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Liza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s already proven technology. This is not innovation, quote unquote. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All of this is about access to redemption. The more convenient it is, the bigger the volume is of what you take in, and then you’re covering costs and making some money.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia: \u003c/b>We’re one of ten states with bottle bills. Are other states having more success with their programs?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>Absolutely. According to the Container Recycling Institute…we have a redemption rate of 60 percent. In comparison, Maine and Oregon have redemption rates of 80 to 90 percent. In Oregon there are supermarket sized redemption centers near grocery stores with multiple ways to recycle…seven days a week sometimes 24 hours a day. Here’s Susan Collins again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You can take your containers inside and they have banks of RVMs. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">RVMs or reverse vending machines…are kiosks with slots in them for you to drop your items. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Or if you have a small number of containers, I think if it’s under 50, you just go straight to the front counter and say, count my containers and give me my money. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You can also drop your items off in a bag where they’re counted later…and Oregon uses the same technology as Bottle Bank…so if you want the money delivered electronically on your phone you can do that too or get a voucher and use it towards your groceries.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So that’s why there’s a contrast between what’s going on in San Francisco. San Francisco does not have all of those locations, does not have all of those layers. And does not have locations that are open for a huge number of hours every week.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But it’s possible…that we could start looking a little like Oregon. A law passed last year says that starting in 2025…large grocery stores will no longer have $100 a day\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">in lieu fee option. So they will \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">truly\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> be responsible for redeeming our bottles and cans. The idea is to create large scale redemption centers with multiple ways to recycle and redeem items.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The retailers have to establish a convenience infrastructure that is equivalent to what it would be if they had, you know, in-store takeback.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">CalRecycle is giving out more than 70 million dollars in grant money to large grocery store chains \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">to create\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> this infrastructure.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s considered one of the biggest improvements to the Bottle Bill ever, and CalRecycle’s director Rachel Wagoner says this is a serious investment.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Wagoner: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This machinery isn’t inexpensive to buy upfront. Right. So if the state’s gonna purchase it, we wanna make sure that that is a long-term investment that we’re making in the recycling system. In addition to the new infrastructure, the new law will be adding wine and spirits to the list of redemption options for 25 cents a bottle.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Wagoner is optimistic that the new law will make a real difference in the number of redeemed containers, taking our current redemption rate from 60 percent to a hundred.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Wagoner: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And, uh, even if I don’t hit a hundred percent, let’s see how close we can get.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And Susan is also optimistic…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> If everything goes according to plan. We could have a really good system in California.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But she is skeptical about how fast the changes will come. She says her organization first advocated for these changes back in 2009.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it happened in 2022. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I also know that if we advocate for something strongly enough and long enough that eventually it will come to pass. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I reached out to Paul, our question asker, and told him how most of the money from unredeemed deposits just sits in the beverage container fund…because most of the redemption centers have closed. We pulled up a map of Oakland and found that the nearest redemption center to his home was more than five miles away. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steven: I’m curious, I wanna get your thoughts on that. Is that feasible? What do you think?\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Paul: I live in a small condo and for me there’s a headache associated with storing a whole separate bag full of cans, like, I’m not gonna go for like two or three cans.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Paul likes the idea of redeeming bottles and cans at supermarkets… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I would go to the grocery store to go shopping where I could return my can. So for me it’s an incentive to go shop at their store. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Maybe someday soon Paul will once again be able to head to the grocery store with a bag of cans, and come home with a little cash in his pocket.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>OUTRO\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was producer and reporter Steven Rascon.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Longtime listeners will know this isn’t our first rodeo talking about how recycling works and sometimes doesn’t. Find links to more episodes in our show notes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As you probably know by now, we are in a fundraising period, but I wanted to point something out… \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">People ask me all the time how they can get their hands on some Bay Curious swag. And usually the answer is: You have to get on the show and we send you a thank you item for participating. But right now, you can get your hands on one of our thick, luxurious, Bay Curious beanies — which I’ll add are legendary among the question askers who’ve received them. All it takes is becoming a KQED member. Visit \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://donate.kqed.org/podcasts\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">donate.kqed.org/podcasts\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to learn how and stay toasty with us all winter long. Or, if you don’t need a new hat, you can choose from lots of other great gifts at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://donate.kqed.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">donate.kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">/podcasts. Thank you. Seriously! Thank you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bay Curious is made by Amanda Font, Christopher Beale, and me, Olivia-Allen Price. Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldana, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan and the entire KQED family. Have a wonderful week.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cem>Read a transcript of this episode\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Paul Beach was a kid growing up in Maine, he remembers going to a recycling center that was part of a grocery store. He watched people walk into this large space with garbage bags full of bottles and cans. And when he noticed they were walking out with cash, he wanted in on the hustle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I would have like $50 in cans. It took me a while to get that much, but it was pretty good income for, like, a 10-year-old,” Beach said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Maine and California are two states with \u003ca href=\"https://www.bottlebill.org/index.php/current-and-proposed-laws/usa/california\">a Bottle Bill\u003c/a>, a law that encourages recycling for money. When Beach moved to California, where he’s lived for the past 25 years, he looked up the closest redemption center to him in Oakland and discovered it was 5 miles away. A place called Cash for Cans.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For Beach, it’s not worth storing several bags of containers in his apartment for a single trip. Instead, he puts his recyclables in the blue bin on the street.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This experience had him wondering: Where does the money go for bottle-and-can redemption if residents don’t turn them into a recycling center? And why is it so hard to recycle them in the first place?\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>The Bottle Bill\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The money Beach is talking about is the California Redemption Value, or CRV — and it’s not exactly free. Whenever someone buys a drink from the store with the letters CRV printed on the label, they’re paying a 5-to-10-cent deposit at the checkout line. To get that deposit back, they have to recycle those containers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This applies mostly to beverages that come in aluminum cans and plastic bottles. The whole point is to encourage recycling and reduce litter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 1986, the state passed the California Beverage Container Recycling and Litter Reduction Act, also known as the Bottle Bill. The law created the recycling deposit system many use today. California is also one of 10 states in the country with a Bottle Bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Susan V. Collins, president of the Container Recycling Institute in Culver City, calls Bottle Bills “the rock stars of recycling” because of the financial incentive behind them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" loading=\"lazy\" />\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Bay Curious\u003c/a> is a podcast that answers your questions about the Bay Area.\n Subscribe on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>,\n \u003ca href=\"http://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">NPR One\u003c/a> or your favorite podcast platform.\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp>“People either hold onto their bottle and turn it in for the 5 cents, or if they do litter it, someone else picks it up and takes it in for recycling,” Collins said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since passing its Bottle Bill, California has had a good track record with the number of recycled and redeemed containers. One out of five beverage containers recycled in the U.S. \u003ca href=\"https://www.bottlebill.org/index.php/current-and-proposed-laws/usa/california\">are recycled in California\u003c/a>, according to the Container Recycling Institute.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But recycling containers isn’t the same as redeeming them for cash. As redemption centers closed across the state, Californians were left with fewer options to redeem their bottles and cans. According to CRI, the state’s redemption rates have fallen from 74% to 60% in the past decade.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11962004\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2023/09/21/cashing-in-on-californias-broken-bottle-deposit-system/bottles-ready-to-be-recycled-at-the-recycling-center-at-church-on-market-streets-in-san-francisco-calif-on-friday-august-9-2013-safeway-is-going-to-shut-down-its-recyling-center-here-by-septemb/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-11962004\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11962004\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1321630841-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"two bins of glass bottles and cans\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1321630841-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1321630841-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1321630841-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1321630841-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1321630841-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1321630841-2048x1365.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1321630841-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Bottles ready to be recycled at the recycling center at Church and Market streets in San Francisco. \u003ccite>(Liz Hafalia/The San Francisco Chronicle via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Redemption center deserts\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>When the Bottle Bill was passed in the 1980s it depended on California’s current recycling center infrastructure. Recycling centers were now obligated to give people back their money for bottles and cans.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Most of these businesses created partnerships with grocery stores to establish convenience for consumers looking for a place to recycle. They set up shop in the parking lots of a store much like the one from Beach’s childhood.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But when revenue started to plummet at these locations because of the falling price of scrap material, many shuttered.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since 2013, more than 40% of \u003ca href=\"https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/cash-in-the-can-californias-recycling-run-around/2055057/\">these recycling centers\u003c/a> have closed across the state. Collins said the Bay Area is the epicenter of these closures affecting a majority of people who depend on these centers for extra income.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“California has the least convenient system in the world right now because of these redemption deserts,” Collins said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the ’90s, San Francisco once had about 35 redemption centers scattered throughout the city. Today, there are only two and both are located in the Bayview District. CalRecycle \u003ca href=\"https://www2.calrecycle.ca.gov/BevContainer/RecyclingCenters/\">lists about 1,200 redemption centers\u003c/a> left in the state.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Abandoned deposits\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>When bottles and cans end up in landfills and not redeemed, those deposits are considered “unclaimed” by the state. This unclaimed money sits in the Beverage Container Fund, which is managed by CalRecycle. About 400 people in the state agency who work in the beverage container program are paid out of unclaimed deposits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The money is supposed to be used to subsidize the state’s recycling infrastructure to help people get their money back. But for the most part, it stays untouched in the beverage container fund.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "‘California has the least convenient system in the world right now because of these redemption deserts.’",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Some of the unclaimed deposits are paid out to redemption centers, but not a whole lot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In California, where many rely on blue recycling bins, waste hauling companies get to cash in on the CRV money attached to those bottles and cans thrown out. Collins said only a small percentage of those recyclables are redeemed because waste haulers don’t always do a perfect job of sorting through the recycling. Inevitably, a lot of it ends up in landfill. Last year, only 13% were redeemed for CRV.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Collins said, as of last summer, the beverage container fund accumulated $672 million. She indicated that the high balance was a partial failure on behalf of the program.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Consumer advocates argue that redemption center closures and allowing waste haulers to take residents’ CRV is hurting consumers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s turned into a tax because we don’t have any place to take those bottles and cans to get those dimes and nickels back. That’s the fundamental problem,” said Liza Tucker, consumer advocate for Consumer Watchdog.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She added that working-class communities who \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11714223/when-recycling-pays-and-when-it-doesnt\">depend on recycling to pay bills\u003c/a> are hurting the most.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They actually need cash. They need to fill their tanks with gas. They need to buy food,” Tucker said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>The in-lieu-fee loophole\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Under the Bottle Bill, retailers that sell beverages are required to recycle those beverages if there’s no recycling center nearby. The law was designed for the sake of convenience. But California’s Bottle Bill gives stores the option of paying out of their responsibility to recycle and redeem drink containers. This is known as the “in-lieu fee,” a penalty in lieu of redeeming empty containers — a $100 fee for each day the store is not taking back recyclables.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In some cases, stores \u003ca href=\"https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/10/business/cvs-3-6-million-fine-california-recycling-trnd/index.html#:~:text=California%20is%20slapping%20CVS%20with,its%20residents%2C%20the%20state%20said\">try to get away with not paying the in-lieu fees at all\u003c/a>. In response, CalRecycle Director Rachel Machi Wagoner said, “It’s incredibly hard to ensure that retailers who say they are taking back in store or are paying the in-lieu fee, are doing exactly what they’re saying.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11962006\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2023/09/21/cashing-in-on-californias-broken-bottle-deposit-system/customers-line-up-to-have-bottles-and-cans-weighed-before-they-receive-a-cash-payment-at-the-our-planet-recycling-collection-center-on-bayshore-boulevard-in-san-francisco-calif-on-thursday-aug-3-2/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-11962006\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11962006\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1408767999-1-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"people lined up outside a recycling center with trash bags full of recyclable bottles and cans\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1722\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1408767999-1-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1408767999-1-800x538.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1408767999-1-1020x686.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1408767999-1-160x108.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1408767999-1-1536x1033.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1408767999-1-2048x1377.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/09/GettyImages-1408767999-1-1920x1291.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Customers line up to have bottles and cans weighed before they receive a cash payment at the Our Planet Recycling collection center on Bayshore Boulevard in San Francisco in 2017. Independent recycling centers are struggling to stay open saying the state subsidies aren’t enough to keep them in business. \u003ccite>(Paul Chinn/The San Francisco Chronicle via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Lawmakers know the system isn’t working\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>In 2019, the state put aside $5 million to pilot new ways to recycle and redeem our bottles and cans.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One of those pilot programs is called \u003ca href=\"https://sfbottlebank.org/\">BottleBank\u003c/a> in San Francisco. After downloading the app, consumers drop off their containers to any BottleBank mobile drop-off location and then their recyclables get taken to an offsite recycling center for sorting. The CRV is tallied up and the money is electronically delivered to the person’s bank account.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Our ultimate goal for CRV is to rapidly increase how many people are redeeming. … getting more money back into people’s pockets,” said Charles Sheehan, chief policy and public affairs officer with San Francisco’s Department of the Environment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since the program kicked off last year, Sheehan said the department recycled more than 3 million bottles and cans and paid out about $190,000 in CRV as of this summer. There are currently \u003ca href=\"https://sfbottlebank.org/locations/\">20 BottleBank sites\u003c/a> set up around the city with many found parked outside Safeway, Whole Foods and Grocery Outlet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" loading=\"lazy\" />\n What do you wonder about the Bay Area, its culture or people that you want KQED to investigate?\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Ask Bay Curious.\u003c/a>\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp>Consumer advocates, however, aren’t happy with the program, saying the pilot is benefiting supermarkets more than consumers. CalRecycle lists the BottleBank sites on its website as certified recycling centers. Under the Bottle Bill, grocery stores within a certain mile radius of a recycling center don’t have to pay in-lieu fees or take back in store.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“So the minute that they approved this particular pilot, 400 stores got off the hook,” Tucker of Consumer Watchdog said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Consumer Watchdog added that BottleBank is not recycling enough, because the sites are only open one day out of the week for several hours a day and the program is costing taxpayers too much to operate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After analyzing BottleBank’s expenses, Consumer Watchdog asked the state’s Department of Finance to no longer fund the program.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It is costing 79 cents to return a nickel to consumers. And it will never be sustainable,” it said in \u003ca href=\"https://consumerwatchdog.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/LtrBottleBankStephenshaw6-19-23.pdf\">a statement (PDF)\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In defense of the program, Sheehan stressed that it’s still in the pilot phase, which means making improvements while incurring costs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re growing, and as we grow we will continue to kind of bring in more revenues and bring our revenues in line with our costs,” Sheehan said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>BottleBank’s costs include renting the grocery store parking lot space for its operations, plus labor, marketing materials and transportation for the bottles and cans to the recycling facility.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to CalRecycle, the state awarded the program $500,000 to expand their services to last until the end of the year. Sheehan said the goal is to get a total of 30 locations running with longer operating hours.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>A new law could change it all\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Other Bottle Bill states like Oregon have a higher redemption rate of 85%. The state has multiple ways to redeem items using reverse vending machines, bag drop programs and in-store take back. The state also utilizes the same app-based technology as BottleBank for consumers to receive their CRV electronically. They can also get a voucher to use at their local grocery store.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Starting in 2025, it’s possible that California can start looking more like Oregon. SB 1013 passed last year and it will require grocery stores with no nearby recycling centers to be responsible for taking back empty beverage containers starting in January 2025. It also removes the optional $100-a-day in-lieu fee and adds wine and spirits to the list of redemption items.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s considered one of the biggest improvements to the Bottle Bill ever. CalRecycle’s Director, Rachel Wagoner, added that the machinery to build this infrastructure will not be cheap.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“So if the state’s gonna purchase it, we wanna make sure that that is a long-term investment that we’re making in the recycling system,” Wagoner said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>CalRecycle is giving out more than $70 million in grant money to large grocery store chains to create this infrastructure. The agency is currently having public workshops with retailers to answer questions about the grant process. The idea is to create large-scale redemption centers with multiple ways to recycle items, while increasing the state’s redemption rate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Still, Wagoner is optimistic that the new law will make a real difference in the number of redeemed containers. And she’s hopeful for 100% redemption.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“And even if I don’t hit 100%, let’s see how close we can get,” Wagoner said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Collins said her organization, the Container Recycling Institute, first advocated for these changes in 2009. She added that if everything goes according to plan California could have a good system in place.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Yet Collins is skeptical about how fast those changes will come. She pointed out that multiple spending programs, and an additional budget bill, passed along with the new law may exceed the resources in the Beverage Container Fund to create the redemption infrastructure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.container-recycling.org/images/2023/CRI_CalRecycle_budget_questions_Sen_06132023.pdf\">In a letter (PDF)\u003c/a> asking the state’s Senate Budget Committee to reconsider how they spend the money, Collins wrote, “The complete implementation of AB 179 and SB 1013 over 6 years will cost the beverage container fund and other accounts roughly $1.3 billion.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We can’t have money going outta the fund to pay for things that are not bottles and cans when that money is needed to give people their nickels and dimes back,” said Collins.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> When Paul Beach was a kid growing up in Maine, he would go to this recycling center that was part of a grocery store. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul Beach:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It was a pretty big space in the grocery store. And you just bring your bottles and cans in. and they sorted them, like green bottles went here, white bottles went there, brown bottles went here.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Paul noticed that people would walk into the recycling center with a bag of … well, garbage, essentially. And they would walk out with \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">cash\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. He wanted in on the hustle.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And I would have, like $50 in cans. It took me a while to get that much, but it was pretty good income for like a 10 year old.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That experience taught Paul the literal value of recycling. Every bottle or can was worth up to fifteen cents in Maine because of the state’s\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> bottle bill\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. That’s a law designed to encourage recycling. When Paul moved to California, where we \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">also\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> have a bottle bill, he thought things would work about the same…but his nearest redemption center was far, so he never went … Now, he puts his items on the curb where they’re whisked away by a waste hauling company.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I am pretty sure that the company that I pay to take the recycling fishes through and gets all the cans and they get the money for the cans and bottles. // like, you’re getting paid on both sides. It’s like, this just doesn’t seem fair.\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This has all left him wondering about a few things…\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Where does the money go for bottle and can redemption if we don’t bring the bottles and cans back?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And why is it so hard to find a place to recycle them in the first place?\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music change\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In today’s episode of Bay Curious we dig into how this recycling system works and why some argue it’s seriously broken. Plus: Who’s pocketing the CRV money from California’s unclaimed bottles and cans? I’m Olivia Allen-Price. This is Bay Curious. We’ll be right back.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>SPONSOR MESSAGE\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> To answer Paul’s questions about bottle and can redemption in California … KQED’s Steven Rascón has been following the money. Hey Steven!\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven Rascón:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Hey Olivia.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So Paul’s question is all about CRV. Can you explain what exactly that is?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Sure. CRV stands for California Redemption Value. And it applies to certain bottled and canned drinks you buy from the store. Anytime you buy one of these beverages with the letters CRV engraved on the lid or printed on the label, you’re paying 5-10 cents extra at the checkout line. Paying this extra charge is supposed to work like a deposit. Because once we’re done with that drink, we’re supposed to recycle it and get back those 10 cents.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And this applies specifically to store-bought beverages… so containers of juice, coffee, water, soda …?\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Exactly. This recycling system is part of a law that’s colloquially known as the \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bottle Bill\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. We are one of ten states in the country with a Bottle Bill. Beverage containers specifically, continue to make up roughly half of roadside litter across the country. And so in the 80’s, environmentalists and lawmakers decided to do something about it in California… and pass the Bottle Bill. And recycling experts say this system works.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan Collins:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We know that bottle bills on average, reduce beverage container litter by 50%. So we can keep some of those plastics outta the ocean if we have bottle bills in place. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That’s Susan Collins, she’s the head of the \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Container Recycling Institute\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> in Culver City California. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The whole reason bottle bills work like magic, why I call them the rock stars of recycling, is because of the incentive that’s attached to it. because people either hold onto their bottle and turn it in for the 5 cents, or if they do litter it, someone else picks it up and takes it in for recycling.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Since California passed its Bottle Bill, the number of recycled containers has shot up. The Container Recycling Institute says one out of five beverage containers recycled in the US are being recycled in California. But…not all of those bottles and cans are getting redeemed for cash. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And when that happens…that money just stays in what’s called the beverage container fund. A fund that’s owned by the state.\u003c/span>\u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What is the unclaimed money in that fund used for? \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So the unclaimed deposits from those containers, the money \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">that no one’s getting\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> belongs to the state. CalRecycle is the state agency that manages the fund and the program. Susan says there’s a lot of work that goes into it that we don’t see. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Cal Recycle has about 400 people who work on this program, and those people are paid out of the unclaimed deposits. That money is also supposed to be used to create more ways for recycling our items. CalRecycle gives some of that money to recycling centers who redeem our bottles and cans. Some of it goes to waste hauling companies who pick up our blue bins of recyclables.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I know a lot of people, like our question asker Paul and myself, put our bottles and cans in the blue bin on the curb. But who gets the money for those items? Because I know it’s not me! \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">According to CalRecycle, the waste hauling companies that pick up our recycling like Recology get to cash in on the bottles and cans we put in them. We’re actually the only state with a Bottle Bill where this is the case. So Paul’s right when he says waste haulers are getting paid twice. Consumer advocates, by the way, are not happy with this arrangement…\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another issue with the blue bin….is waste haulers don’t do a perfect job of sorting all the recycling. Oftentimes, food and trash will mix with the bottles and cans…and those containers that don’t get redeemed inevitably end up in the landfill.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The Container Recycling Institute says only 13 percent of those bottles and cans being recycled are being redeemed for cash.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So to recap, we’re not getting the money we throw out in blue bins and not all of it is even being recycled. It sounds like everything would be better if took things to the redemption center?\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right but \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If only\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> it were that easy! Yes, redemption centers are the ideal way to recycle our bottles and cans and get our money back. But good luck finding one…\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The Bay Area is like the epicenter of redemption center closures, and it’s the area of the state that has the least availability of centers and the more people dependent on each and every center.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In the 90’s, San Francisco once had about 35 of these centers scattered throughout the city, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">today there are only two\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…both located in the Bayview District. Since 2013 more than forty percent of these centers have closed across the state. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">California has the least convenient system in the world right now because of these redemption deserts. Why they’ve had to close is a whole other story, but in short – prices for recycled materials dropped so much…these businesses couldn’t survive.\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Music out\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is all pretty frustrating, and it’s about to get downright infuriating because Californians should, in theory, be able to take our recyclable beverage containers to the grocery store, just like our question asker Paul did when he was growing up in Maine.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right\u003c/span>\u003cb>. \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And technically it’s the law. Under the Bottle Bill supermarkets and retailers that sell beverages \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">are required\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to recycle them and give us back our money. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It should be just as easy to return your bottle or can for redemption as it was to purchase the bottle in the first place. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: But the problem is most supermarkets don’t take our bottles and cans. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Only a small handful actually do. And so if a supermarket refuses to take your empty cans…then they have to pay what’s called…an “in lieu fee.” A penalty in lieu of redeeming empty containers. It’s a hundred dollar fine per day. But this \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">penalty\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> has become a \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">loophole. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For a lot of these stores, $100 a day is a bargain to not have to deal with CRV redemption.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Some stores try \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">to get away\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> without paying the in lieu fees at all. I brought this up to CalRecycle and they said “it’s incredibly hard to ensure that retailers who says they are taking back in store or are paying the in lieu fee, are doing exactly what they’re saying.”\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It sounds like this system is very broken… \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That’s what a lot of people I spoke to have said…And as a result, with fewer ways to redeem our bottles and cans, the pot of nickels and dimes in the state’s fund just keeps growing. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As of the end of June last year, the beverage container fund had accumulated 672 million dollars. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Susan says you need some of that money to keep the program going but… \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You certainly do not wanna have a fund balance that’s close to 700 million that indicates a program partial failure. \u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that …five or ten cents… extra you pay. Consumer advocates say this might not seem like a big deal for some people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The sort of middle class, upper middle class. You know, a lot of them aren’t even aware they’re paying bottle deposits when they go through the line. Um, you know, they’re not even aware.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That’s Liza Tucker, an advocate \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">with Consumer Watchdog\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> who’s written several reports on the state’s recycling and redemption system. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003cb>\u003cbr>\nLiza: \u003c/b>There are a lot of people in the state of California who actually depend on that money. They actually need cash. They need to fill their tanks with gas. They need to buy food. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But if we can’t redeem, we lose money.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s called a refundable deposit because that’s what it’s supposed to be. It’s not supposed to be a tax, but it’s turned into a tax because we don’t have any place to take those bottles and cans to get those dimes and nickels back. That’s the fundamental problem. And so we’re looking at a situation where the system. Is imploding.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This sounds like a huge mess. Has anyone tried to fix this?\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lawmakers know the system isn’t working like it’s supposed to…So in 2019, the state put aside 5 million dollars to pilot new ways to recycle and redeem our bottles and cans. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> One of those pilots is now operating in San Francisco. It’s called Bottle Bank. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It works through an app on your phone. And you have to have an account in order to recycle with them. The app lists their locations and hours. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I grabbed whatever bottles and cans I could find in my apartment…\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sound of collecting of bottles and cans\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steven in scene: There’s probably like 35 cents in here. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And I went to one of their busiest locations outside a Safeway by the beach…to see how their operation works and if I could get some CRV.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steven: “Hello? Hi. How’s it going? Good. Good…Look at all these bags.”\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jon Jon: Yeah. Bottles and cans.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steven: Are these all, all, all from today?\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>Jon Jon: Yes. the morning shift already got about 50, 30, 50 bags.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s a Bottle Bank attendant, his name is Jon Jon, he’s collecting bags…. But these aren’t just your typical trash bags… these blue colored garbage bags have a QR code on them that connect to your Bottle Bank account on your phone. Jon Jon takes my bottles and cans and throws them into one of these bags. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003cb>Jon Jon\u003ci>:\u003c/i>\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then scan every bag\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> He scans the QR code on the bag…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sound of machine beeping\u003c/span>\u003c/em>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Then he scans the app on my phone. The bag of cans is now linked to my Bottle Bank account. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jon Jon: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After this day we bring it to the facility and they will process it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My bag along with the other bags of the day will be taken to an offsite recycling center for sorting. This is Jim, he’s another Bottle Bank attendant.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jim:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It distinguishes the material type as well as the size of the container and its value. When we process the bottles and cans. The money goes electronically into the Bottle Bank account. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And after three days, I had about a dollar in my account…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> San Francisco officials who run the program are proud of it. Here is Charles Sheehan, He’s with San Francisco’s Department of the Environment and head of the program.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Charles:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I think it’s kind of brought bottle and canned recycling into the modern age, if you will.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As of this past summer, the department said it recycled more than three million bottles and cans and given out about $190,000 in CRV.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Charles: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When we think about what our ultimate goal is for CRV, is like, to rapidly increase how many people are redeeming, you know, who is redeeming, getting more money back into people’s pockets.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But Liza from Consumer Watchdog says the pilot is not recycling enough because the Bottle Bank sites are only open-one-day-a-week…only several hours a day in select locations. And it’s …costing taxpayers too much to operate. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We are advocating strongly not to finance the mobile experiments because they aren’t penciling out.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After analyzing Bottle Bank’s expenses, Consumer Watchdog asked the state’s Department of Finance to no longer fund the program. Saying, quote: “It is costing 79 cents to return a nickel to consumers. And it will never be sustainable.”\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> These costs include renting out the grocery store parking lots where they’re taking bags. Labor, materials, and transporting the bottes to the facility. But Liza says the biggest problem with Bottle Bank is it’s allowing grocery stores in the city \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">to refuse\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> people’s empty bottles and cans… benefiting supermarkets more than consumers.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Liza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the minute that they approved this particular pilot, 400 stores got off the hook.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> That’s cause under the Bottle Bill…if a grocery store is within a certain mile radius of \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">a recycling center then, the store doesn’t have to recycle or redeem any of our bottles and cans…and they don’t have to pay the in lieu fee. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because a stipulation behind all of these pilot programs is that when they say yes to a pilot is in an underserved location it automatically absolves all the supermarkets in the area from either having to take back in store because there’s no redemption center or pay that a hundred dollars a day.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> In defense of the program, Charles Sheehan stresses they’re still in the pilot phase, which means making revisions while incurring costs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Charles: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re growing. Um, and as we grow, you know, we will continue to kind of bring in more revenues and bring our revenues in line with our costs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> According to CalRecycle, the state just awarded 500 thousand dollars to expand the program. Sheehan says the goal is to get up to 30 locations running with longer operating hours. Meanwhile, Liza says, the tech Bottle Bank is using isn’t new.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Liza: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s already proven technology. This is not innovation, quote unquote. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All of this is about access to redemption. The more convenient it is, the bigger the volume is of what you take in, and then you’re covering costs and making some money.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia: \u003c/b>We’re one of ten states with bottle bills. Are other states having more success with their programs?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>Absolutely. According to the Container Recycling Institute…we have a redemption rate of 60 percent. In comparison, Maine and Oregon have redemption rates of 80 to 90 percent. In Oregon there are supermarket sized redemption centers near grocery stores with multiple ways to recycle…seven days a week sometimes 24 hours a day. Here’s Susan Collins again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You can take your containers inside and they have banks of RVMs. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">RVMs or reverse vending machines…are kiosks with slots in them for you to drop your items. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Or if you have a small number of containers, I think if it’s under 50, you just go straight to the front counter and say, count my containers and give me my money. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You can also drop your items off in a bag where they’re counted later…and Oregon uses the same technology as Bottle Bank…so if you want the money delivered electronically on your phone you can do that too or get a voucher and use it towards your groceries.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So that’s why there’s a contrast between what’s going on in San Francisco. San Francisco does not have all of those locations, does not have all of those layers. And does not have locations that are open for a huge number of hours every week.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But it’s possible…that we could start looking a little like Oregon. A law passed last year says that starting in 2025…large grocery stores will no longer have $100 a day\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">in lieu fee option. So they will \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">truly\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> be responsible for redeeming our bottles and cans. The idea is to create large scale redemption centers with multiple ways to recycle and redeem items.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The retailers have to establish a convenience infrastructure that is equivalent to what it would be if they had, you know, in-store takeback.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">CalRecycle is giving out more than 70 million dollars in grant money to large grocery store chains \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">to create\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> this infrastructure.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s considered one of the biggest improvements to the Bottle Bill ever, and CalRecycle’s director Rachel Wagoner says this is a serious investment.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Wagoner: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This machinery isn’t inexpensive to buy upfront. Right. So if the state’s gonna purchase it, we wanna make sure that that is a long-term investment that we’re making in the recycling system. In addition to the new infrastructure, the new law will be adding wine and spirits to the list of redemption options for 25 cents a bottle.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Wagoner is optimistic that the new law will make a real difference in the number of redeemed containers, taking our current redemption rate from 60 percent to a hundred.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Wagoner: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And, uh, even if I don’t hit a hundred percent, let’s see how close we can get.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And Susan is also optimistic…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> If everything goes according to plan. We could have a really good system in California.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> But she is skeptical about how fast the changes will come. She says her organization first advocated for these changes back in 2009.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susan: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it happened in 2022. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I also know that if we advocate for something strongly enough and long enough that eventually it will come to pass. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I reached out to Paul, our question asker, and told him how most of the money from unredeemed deposits just sits in the beverage container fund…because most of the redemption centers have closed. We pulled up a map of Oakland and found that the nearest redemption center to his home was more than five miles away. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steven: I’m curious, I wanna get your thoughts on that. Is that feasible? What do you think?\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Paul: I live in a small condo and for me there’s a headache associated with storing a whole separate bag full of cans, like, I’m not gonna go for like two or three cans.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Paul likes the idea of redeeming bottles and cans at supermarkets… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paul: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I would go to the grocery store to go shopping where I could return my can. So for me it’s an incentive to go shop at their store. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steven: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Maybe someday soon Paul will once again be able to head to the grocery store with a bag of cans, and come home with a little cash in his pocket.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>OUTRO\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was producer and reporter Steven Rascon.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Longtime listeners will know this isn’t our first rodeo talking about how recycling works and sometimes doesn’t. Find links to more episodes in our show notes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As you probably know by now, we are in a fundraising period, but I wanted to point something out… \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">People ask me all the time how they can get their hands on some Bay Curious swag. And usually the answer is: You have to get on the show and we send you a thank you item for participating. But right now, you can get your hands on one of our thick, luxurious, Bay Curious beanies — which I’ll add are legendary among the question askers who’ve received them. All it takes is becoming a KQED member. Visit \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://donate.kqed.org/podcasts\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">donate.kqed.org/podcasts\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to learn how and stay toasty with us all winter long. Or, if you don’t need a new hat, you can choose from lots of other great gifts at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://donate.kqed.org/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">donate.kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">/podcasts. Thank you. Seriously! Thank you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bay Curious is made by Amanda Font, Christopher Beale, and me, Olivia-Allen Price. Additional support from Jen Chien, Katie Sprenger, Cesar Saldana, Maha Sanad, Holly Kernan and the entire KQED family. Have a wonderful week.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC9915794114&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San Francisco lyricist and graffiti writer \u003ca href=\"https://linktr.ee/dregs_one\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Dregs One\u003c/a> is making sure Bay Area hip-hop culture is properly documented, and at the same time he’s becoming a recognized historian.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a series of videos he simply calls “History of The Bay,” Dregs is using TikTok, Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube to highlight aspects of Bay Area culture that are often overlooked. In one video he dives into the use of local slang, noting that music “slaps” and food doesn’t. Dregs has multiple videos honoring the work of legendary aerosol artist \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/p/Cfw_H0Mv8Fv/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Mike “Dream” Francisco\u003c/a> of the TDK crew, among numerous posts he’s done in dedication to local graff writers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dregs’ videos are short, often sprinkled with a touch of wry humor, and always laced with game straight from the soil. I talked to him about what it means to have thousands of views on his videos and how the work of documenting a culture that is often word of mouth inherently brings forth differing opinions. Dregs, who is still deep in the rap game and enmeshed in the world of visual arts, says it’s not easy to continuously make videos and do the heavy lifting of keeping the “Frisco-ism” alive, but he loves seeing how many people his work is influencing — and that’s what matters the most.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Below are some lightly edited excerpts of the episode with Dregs One.\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Pen: I love the first-person knowledge, firsthand historian, the person to say like, Nah, I was there, I lived it. And if I wasn’t there on that specific day, then I talked to the person who was there after, you know. There’s value in that. \u003c/span>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Dregs One: Yeah, I’m lucky, man. I mean, some of my big bros are legends. Some of my big bros been painting before I was born in 1983. And I’ve been to my boy Spy’s house, [of] TDK … in his basement. Where he’s just like, oh, what’s in this box? And it’s like, oh my God, it’s Mike Dream’s original notepaper pad from 1996 and where he wrote all these letters and he wrote all his thoughts down and he — what, oh, here’s a photo book of like, you know what I’m saying, graffiti in 1985. It’s like, I’ve been able to soak this stuff up from some really amazing people. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The San Francisco hip-hop culture, the rap culture, is really immersed in the community. So I grew up, you know, seeing some of this stuff around, I grew up seeing, you know, Rappin’ 4-tay stickers in my high school. I grew up seeing posters being put up.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>PEN: What was it like growing up in Lakeview? \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Dregs One: It was dope. So it was like a foggy, desolate cut that was full of families, you know. You had to experience riding your bike, shooting hoops at the gym, you know, eating Now and Laters at the store. And then, you know, I lived on Randolph Street where the projects were right down the street, so it was a lot of, you know, drug activity. A lot of like, you know, kind of scary stuff for a little kid to be growing up around. But at the same time, you know, it was a beautiful community.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, [I was] running around, doing graffiti, going to graffiti parties, going to art shows. I was like 16 years old, drinking forties with people in their twenties, you know, legendary writers. They’re putting me up on stuff that I was too young to know about. … \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you listen to music from the neighborhood by Cellski or Cougnut, it’s pretty accurate too — it sounds like what I saw.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Pen: You had a day, a specific day, where you jumped off the porch and got into the game — both as an artist, musician and as an artist, aerosol artist… \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Dregs One: Obviously, I grew up seeing graffiti, fascinated by it. I knew kids who tagged, [but] I didn’t know that much about it. And then one day, I had a cast on my fingers. I broke my fingers. So I had a cast on my hand and this older kid was like, You know, I sign [people’s casts]. And he was like, Yeah, I’m gonna hit up my tag. But he wasn’t a tagger. So I just kind of clicked like, Oh, you can just have a tag! All right. Well, I’m finna make a tag! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I told my friend in first period, and he was like, Here, I got a little … marker. I’ll sell it to you for five bucks. [It was] some dried up Magnum that he had already been using, but I’m like, Cool, I’m in the game. And then right after that class, I go to homeroom and my boy, Mike Ill is in there and I’m like, Check this out! I’m about to be a graffiti writer! And he was like, What? Okay, me too. Let’s go after school! So like after school, we went to his house and we just was tagging all along the way. And then I get to his house and — he was already a DJ. Had been DJ-ing since middle school. And he had wax and … he had Technic 1200s, and he was scratching and, and I’m like, learning all this stuff. I’m looking at all these records, it’s like local Frisco records. And then he was like, Check this out! And he played the documentary \u003ca href=\"https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0143861/\">Scratch\u003c/a> on DVD, w\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">hich is all about Qbert and all the DJs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that’s when everything went “Poof!” I was like, all right, can you help me make a demo tape with your turntables? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I didn’t know how it worked. I just figured we get a microphone… And he was like, Yeah, let’s do it. So I was 14 years old and I was like, now I’m about to rap. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I would freestyle to myself. I would write little raps here and there. And I’m about to do graffiti. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The vinyl, the graffiti, the music — like it was all right there in front of me one day.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>***\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Dregs One: There’s no denying that, like, the impact [of TikTok] is crazy. I went from like a hundred followers to about 40,000 on TikTok. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it’s definitely reaching, um, new people. It’s crazy because what I’m really thankful for is that my audience goes literally from like 13 to 50, I’m reaching people who are like, Oh yeah, I remember we used to listen to that Spice 1 tape back in the day. And then I’m reaching like 13-year old kids who are like, Wow, this Spice 1 guy s\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">ounds cool. I’m gonna go check him out.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s definitely taking things to a new level, but I do feel like this is just the beginning.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>***\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Dregs One: I just started experimenting, just sharing my knowledge on some of these things that aren’t too heavily documented, in terms of the culture. What I could show people besides music [to] get them to know about me and what I’m about, which is Bay Area hip-hop culture, rap, and graffiti.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I can speak from these things from an authentic place. I might not have ever been the king of graffiti in Frisco, but like, no, I’m genuine, you know, been a genuine part of this culture. And I’m very thankful.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then at the same time, part of what I’m doing is how am I gonna keep this Frisco-ism alive? Right? I don’t want to see the culture … I thought it would be here forever. I took it for — just, there’s so many things. It’s hard to even put into words … Like the way the culture was, growing up — when you’re driving around in a little bucket, bumping RBL Posse, and you know, you get off on Market Street and you’re saying what’s up to Samoans and Filipinos, and then you gonna smob to the Mission. And … you know what I’m saying? Like that, I just want to see that continue. … I\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">f we can keep this culture alive, then you know, let’s just try our best. That’s how I see my role.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-12127869\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"78\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-768x75.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cem>Rightnowish is an arts and culture podcast produced at KQED. Listen to it wherever you get your podcasts or click the play button at the top of this page and subscribe to the show on \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/721590300/rightnowish\">NPR One\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/7kEJuafTzTVan7B78ttz1I\">Spotify\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rightnowish/id1482187648\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://tunein.com/podcasts/Arts--Culture-Podcasts/Rightnowish-p1258245/\">TuneIn\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/rightnowish\">Stitcher\u003c/a> or wherever you get your podcasts. \u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC9915794114&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San Francisco lyricist and graffiti writer \u003ca href=\"https://linktr.ee/dregs_one\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Dregs One\u003c/a> is making sure Bay Area hip-hop culture is properly documented, and at the same time he’s becoming a recognized historian.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a series of videos he simply calls “History of The Bay,” Dregs is using TikTok, Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube to highlight aspects of Bay Area culture that are often overlooked. In one video he dives into the use of local slang, noting that music “slaps” and food doesn’t. Dregs has multiple videos honoring the work of legendary aerosol artist \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/p/Cfw_H0Mv8Fv/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Mike “Dream” Francisco\u003c/a> of the TDK crew, among numerous posts he’s done in dedication to local graff writers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dregs’ videos are short, often sprinkled with a touch of wry humor, and always laced with game straight from the soil. I talked to him about what it means to have thousands of views on his videos and how the work of documenting a culture that is often word of mouth inherently brings forth differing opinions. Dregs, who is still deep in the rap game and enmeshed in the world of visual arts, says it’s not easy to continuously make videos and do the heavy lifting of keeping the “Frisco-ism” alive, but he loves seeing how many people his work is influencing — and that’s what matters the most.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Below are some lightly edited excerpts of the episode with Dregs One.\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Pen: I love the first-person knowledge, firsthand historian, the person to say like, Nah, I was there, I lived it. And if I wasn’t there on that specific day, then I talked to the person who was there after, you know. There’s value in that. \u003c/span>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Dregs One: Yeah, I’m lucky, man. I mean, some of my big bros are legends. Some of my big bros been painting before I was born in 1983. And I’ve been to my boy Spy’s house, [of] TDK … in his basement. Where he’s just like, oh, what’s in this box? And it’s like, oh my God, it’s Mike Dream’s original notepaper pad from 1996 and where he wrote all these letters and he wrote all his thoughts down and he — what, oh, here’s a photo book of like, you know what I’m saying, graffiti in 1985. It’s like, I’ve been able to soak this stuff up from some really amazing people. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The San Francisco hip-hop culture, the rap culture, is really immersed in the community. So I grew up, you know, seeing some of this stuff around, I grew up seeing, you know, Rappin’ 4-tay stickers in my high school. I grew up seeing posters being put up.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>PEN: What was it like growing up in Lakeview? \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Dregs One: It was dope. So it was like a foggy, desolate cut that was full of families, you know. You had to experience riding your bike, shooting hoops at the gym, you know, eating Now and Laters at the store. And then, you know, I lived on Randolph Street where the projects were right down the street, so it was a lot of, you know, drug activity. A lot of like, you know, kind of scary stuff for a little kid to be growing up around. But at the same time, you know, it was a beautiful community.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, [I was] running around, doing graffiti, going to graffiti parties, going to art shows. I was like 16 years old, drinking forties with people in their twenties, you know, legendary writers. They’re putting me up on stuff that I was too young to know about. … \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you listen to music from the neighborhood by Cellski or Cougnut, it’s pretty accurate too — it sounds like what I saw.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Pen: You had a day, a specific day, where you jumped off the porch and got into the game — both as an artist, musician and as an artist, aerosol artist… \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Dregs One: Obviously, I grew up seeing graffiti, fascinated by it. I knew kids who tagged, [but] I didn’t know that much about it. And then one day, I had a cast on my fingers. I broke my fingers. So I had a cast on my hand and this older kid was like, You know, I sign [people’s casts]. And he was like, Yeah, I’m gonna hit up my tag. But he wasn’t a tagger. So I just kind of clicked like, Oh, you can just have a tag! All right. Well, I’m finna make a tag! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I told my friend in first period, and he was like, Here, I got a little … marker. I’ll sell it to you for five bucks. [It was] some dried up Magnum that he had already been using, but I’m like, Cool, I’m in the game. And then right after that class, I go to homeroom and my boy, Mike Ill is in there and I’m like, Check this out! I’m about to be a graffiti writer! And he was like, What? Okay, me too. Let’s go after school! So like after school, we went to his house and we just was tagging all along the way. And then I get to his house and — he was already a DJ. Had been DJ-ing since middle school. And he had wax and … he had Technic 1200s, and he was scratching and, and I’m like, learning all this stuff. I’m looking at all these records, it’s like local Frisco records. And then he was like, Check this out! And he played the documentary \u003ca href=\"https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0143861/\">Scratch\u003c/a> on DVD, w\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">hich is all about Qbert and all the DJs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that’s when everything went “Poof!” I was like, all right, can you help me make a demo tape with your turntables? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I didn’t know how it worked. I just figured we get a microphone… And he was like, Yeah, let’s do it. So I was 14 years old and I was like, now I’m about to rap. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I would freestyle to myself. I would write little raps here and there. And I’m about to do graffiti. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The vinyl, the graffiti, the music — like it was all right there in front of me one day.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>***\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Dregs One: There’s no denying that, like, the impact [of TikTok] is crazy. I went from like a hundred followers to about 40,000 on TikTok. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it’s definitely reaching, um, new people. It’s crazy because what I’m really thankful for is that my audience goes literally from like 13 to 50, I’m reaching people who are like, Oh yeah, I remember we used to listen to that Spice 1 tape back in the day. And then I’m reaching like 13-year old kids who are like, Wow, this Spice 1 guy s\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">ounds cool. I’m gonna go check him out.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It’s definitely taking things to a new level, but I do feel like this is just the beginning.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>***\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Dregs One: I just started experimenting, just sharing my knowledge on some of these things that aren’t too heavily documented, in terms of the culture. What I could show people besides music [to] get them to know about me and what I’m about, which is Bay Area hip-hop culture, rap, and graffiti.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I can speak from these things from an authentic place. I might not have ever been the king of graffiti in Frisco, but like, no, I’m genuine, you know, been a genuine part of this culture. And I’m very thankful.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then at the same time, part of what I’m doing is how am I gonna keep this Frisco-ism alive? Right? I don’t want to see the culture … I thought it would be here forever. I took it for — just, there’s so many things. It’s hard to even put into words … Like the way the culture was, growing up — when you’re driving around in a little bucket, bumping RBL Posse, and you know, you get off on Market Street and you’re saying what’s up to Samoans and Filipinos, and then you gonna smob to the Mission. And … you know what I’m saying? Like that, I just want to see that continue. … I\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">f we can keep this culture alive, then you know, let’s just try our best. That’s how I see my role.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-12127869\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"78\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-768x75.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cem>Rightnowish is an arts and culture podcast produced at KQED. Listen to it wherever you get your podcasts or click the play button at the top of this page and subscribe to the show on \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/721590300/rightnowish\">NPR One\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/7kEJuafTzTVan7B78ttz1I\">Spotify\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rightnowish/id1482187648\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://tunein.com/podcasts/Arts--Culture-Podcasts/Rightnowish-p1258245/\">TuneIn\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/rightnowish\">Stitcher\u003c/a> or wherever you get your podcasts. \u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC7857325208&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/joshuaneall/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Joshua Neal\u003c/a> is a viral sensation, using social media platforms to share his acting talents and social commentary with the world, and simultaneously launching his career.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Multiple times a week, Neal posts short comedic videos where he plays all the roles, writes all the scripts, and produces all the stories. He can be seen smoking fake cigarettes as a bad guy or wearing a towel on his head as he takes on the role of an angry girlfriend—all in service of telling humorous stories that resonate with people’s real-life experiences.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>His posts have been shared widely, and have reached the digital doorsteps of Hollywood luminaries like \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/ellabakercenter/status/1547295009249980416?s=20&t=ebcv2ZkmKeD5UveebJ0MzA\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Ava DuVernay\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Neal, an actor, writer and creator who grew up in Union City and currently lives in Hayward, now has a foot in the door of major production circles, and he did it by simply creating content from the confines of his parents’ crib.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This week Joshua Neal shares a little bit of his own story, as well as what it takes to consistently make viral videos.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Below are some lightly edited excerpts of the episode with Joshua Neal.\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Pen: Why Hayward? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like, Hayward is not L.A.\u003c/span>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Joshua: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It isn’t, but you know, it’s a little bit easier for the opportunities to come to you wherever you are because of social media. So I don’t really have a reason to be in L.A. right now. You know, like I remember when I finally… I booked a national commercial right? And I was like, I’ve made it. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m going to buy my mom a Ferrari and I’m going to move to L.A.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Pen: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Off of one commercial.\u003c/span>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Joshua: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Exactly. So I made a cool little penny. But when I was out there, I was doing a lot of the same things that I was doing in the Bay, which is just waiting for an audition. Sending in a self-tape [audition], you know, you don’t really even get the audition in person, I guess, until round two or three? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Depending on, you know, how big of a production they are, you know, stuff like that. So I was like, you know what, until I have to come back to L.A. and do work there, then I’ll just stay out here. And [it’s] a little bit easier on the pockets.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think the cultures are very different: there’s social media and then there’s the film and TV industry. I think how you’re seen is very, very different, you know what I mean? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because I feel like, there is the method that, you know, you’re just sending in your self-tape, you’re auditioning. But we’re in a different day and age now, to where you can be somewhat in control of your destiny, like you don’t have to wait around. And I think that instead of reaching out to Hollywood, it’s a little better to have Hollywood reach out to you, now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, there’s a lot of people that go to actor’s school. They do their … what is it called, their showcase. And there’s agents that come there and they get picked up straight from that, you know what I mean? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But for those of us who I would say kind of don’t want to sit still … Then it’s the best way to market yourself, brand yourself, make a living and have them go, “Oh, we think this guy will be good for this” because when they approach you in an audition opportunity, they have an idea already of who you are, and kind of like the part that you will fit. So it kind of gives you a little extra advantage… Until Michael B. Jordan comes in and then it’s all over!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Pen: I asked Joshua what his goal would be if he were to make super stardom like Issa Rae, who also carved out her path through a web series. And whether he would try to help other people in his community get past some of the Hollywood gatekeeping. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Joshua: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, for people, you know who aren’t Black, not a person of color, it’s kind of like the opportunity is everywhere, it’s been there. So there’s not as much pressure to put people on because they’re already on or going to get on. It’s very easy. Versus one of us makes it out of thousands? We’re all going to say like, “Oh, please, yo, I mean like, you got to.” \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We feel like you’re obligated to because of the fact that it’s rare for one of us to make it as big as Issa Rae. You know what I’m saying? And I’m pretty sure she feels as pressured to sometimes to be like oh I have to do it, because if you don’t, who else is? There’ll be another Issa Rae thirty years from now. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Being a black man in America, especially a Black artist, there is the lack of opportunities. So if I get lucky and blessed enough to get to this level of whatever stardom, whatever you want to call it, and I have this access of managers and agents and casting directors and people that I can “put on,” I’m going to do so. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Joshua: Sometimes I feel like people can maybe look at social media people as like they got it made and stuff. When really I don’t, personally. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I like to, you know, just bring it down to earth sometimes, let people know that it’s like, yo, or I’m still trying to figure it out. I’m 32, I live with my parents. You know, things just started taking off for me and my acting career a year and a half ago, you know, and I’m still trying to make it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sometimes I think it’s important to just let people know, like, we’re really all in this together. We’re really all trying to figure it out. Sometimes things aren’t what they seem, you know what I’m saying? So I just put that in there every now and then. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I know I can sound so phony, [but] he battle really is within yourself.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It really is. You’re your hardest critic. You’re always going to say, “this isn’t funny. That’s not going to do it. That’s not going to… ” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You don’t know that! Do it first, then find out. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s nothing to be worried about right now. There’s no failure. So make something, because it could be the greatest thing someone’s ever seen. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-12127869\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"78\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-768x75.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cem>Rightnowish is an arts and culture podcast produced at KQED. Listen to it wherever you get your podcasts or click the play button at the top of this page and subscribe to the show on \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/721590300/rightnowish\">NPR One\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/7kEJuafTzTVan7B78ttz1I\">Spotify\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rightnowish/id1482187648\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://tunein.com/podcasts/Arts--Culture-Podcasts/Rightnowish-p1258245/\">TuneIn\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/rightnowish\">Stitcher\u003c/a> or wherever you get your podcasts. \u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC7857325208&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/joshuaneall/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Joshua Neal\u003c/a> is a viral sensation, using social media platforms to share his acting talents and social commentary with the world, and simultaneously launching his career.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Multiple times a week, Neal posts short comedic videos where he plays all the roles, writes all the scripts, and produces all the stories. He can be seen smoking fake cigarettes as a bad guy or wearing a towel on his head as he takes on the role of an angry girlfriend—all in service of telling humorous stories that resonate with people’s real-life experiences.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>His posts have been shared widely, and have reached the digital doorsteps of Hollywood luminaries like \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/ellabakercenter/status/1547295009249980416?s=20&t=ebcv2ZkmKeD5UveebJ0MzA\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Ava DuVernay\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Neal, an actor, writer and creator who grew up in Union City and currently lives in Hayward, now has a foot in the door of major production circles, and he did it by simply creating content from the confines of his parents’ crib.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This week Joshua Neal shares a little bit of his own story, as well as what it takes to consistently make viral videos.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Below are some lightly edited excerpts of the episode with Joshua Neal.\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Pen: Why Hayward? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like, Hayward is not L.A.\u003c/span>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Joshua: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It isn’t, but you know, it’s a little bit easier for the opportunities to come to you wherever you are because of social media. So I don’t really have a reason to be in L.A. right now. You know, like I remember when I finally… I booked a national commercial right? And I was like, I’ve made it. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m going to buy my mom a Ferrari and I’m going to move to L.A.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Pen: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Off of one commercial.\u003c/span>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Joshua: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Exactly. So I made a cool little penny. But when I was out there, I was doing a lot of the same things that I was doing in the Bay, which is just waiting for an audition. Sending in a self-tape [audition], you know, you don’t really even get the audition in person, I guess, until round two or three? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Depending on, you know, how big of a production they are, you know, stuff like that. So I was like, you know what, until I have to come back to L.A. and do work there, then I’ll just stay out here. And [it’s] a little bit easier on the pockets.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think the cultures are very different: there’s social media and then there’s the film and TV industry. I think how you’re seen is very, very different, you know what I mean? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because I feel like, there is the method that, you know, you’re just sending in your self-tape, you’re auditioning. But we’re in a different day and age now, to where you can be somewhat in control of your destiny, like you don’t have to wait around. And I think that instead of reaching out to Hollywood, it’s a little better to have Hollywood reach out to you, now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, there’s a lot of people that go to actor’s school. They do their … what is it called, their showcase. And there’s agents that come there and they get picked up straight from that, you know what I mean? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But for those of us who I would say kind of don’t want to sit still … Then it’s the best way to market yourself, brand yourself, make a living and have them go, “Oh, we think this guy will be good for this” because when they approach you in an audition opportunity, they have an idea already of who you are, and kind of like the part that you will fit. So it kind of gives you a little extra advantage… Until Michael B. Jordan comes in and then it’s all over!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Pen: I asked Joshua what his goal would be if he were to make super stardom like Issa Rae, who also carved out her path through a web series. And whether he would try to help other people in his community get past some of the Hollywood gatekeeping. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Joshua: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, for people, you know who aren’t Black, not a person of color, it’s kind of like the opportunity is everywhere, it’s been there. So there’s not as much pressure to put people on because they’re already on or going to get on. It’s very easy. Versus one of us makes it out of thousands? We’re all going to say like, “Oh, please, yo, I mean like, you got to.” \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We feel like you’re obligated to because of the fact that it’s rare for one of us to make it as big as Issa Rae. You know what I’m saying? And I’m pretty sure she feels as pressured to sometimes to be like oh I have to do it, because if you don’t, who else is? There’ll be another Issa Rae thirty years from now. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Being a black man in America, especially a Black artist, there is the lack of opportunities. So if I get lucky and blessed enough to get to this level of whatever stardom, whatever you want to call it, and I have this access of managers and agents and casting directors and people that I can “put on,” I’m going to do so. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Joshua: Sometimes I feel like people can maybe look at social media people as like they got it made and stuff. When really I don’t, personally. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I like to, you know, just bring it down to earth sometimes, let people know that it’s like, yo, or I’m still trying to figure it out. I’m 32, I live with my parents. You know, things just started taking off for me and my acting career a year and a half ago, you know, and I’m still trying to make it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sometimes I think it’s important to just let people know, like, we’re really all in this together. We’re really all trying to figure it out. Sometimes things aren’t what they seem, you know what I’m saying? So I just put that in there every now and then. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I know I can sound so phony, [but] he battle really is within yourself.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> It really is. You’re your hardest critic. You’re always going to say, “this isn’t funny. That’s not going to do it. That’s not going to… ” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You don’t know that! Do it first, then find out. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s nothing to be worried about right now. There’s no failure. So make something, because it could be the greatest thing someone’s ever seen. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-12127869\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"78\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-768x75.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cem>Rightnowish is an arts and culture podcast produced at KQED. Listen to it wherever you get your podcasts or click the play button at the top of this page and subscribe to the show on \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/721590300/rightnowish\">NPR One\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/7kEJuafTzTVan7B78ttz1I\">Spotify\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rightnowish/id1482187648\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://tunein.com/podcasts/Arts--Culture-Podcasts/Rightnowish-p1258245/\">TuneIn\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/rightnowish\">Stitcher\u003c/a> or wherever you get your podcasts. \u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
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"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
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"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
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"info": "Political Breakdown is a new series that explores the political intersection of California and the nation. Each week hosts Scott Shafer and Marisa Lagos are joined with a new special guest to unpack politics -- with personality — and offer an insider’s glimpse at how politics happens.",
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"possible": {
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"title": "Possible",
"info": "Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? Each episode also includes a short fiction story generated by advanced AI GPT-4, serving as a thought-provoking springboard to speculate how humanity could leverage technology for good.",
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"radiolab": {
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},
"rightnowish": {
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"title": "Rightnowish",
"tagline": "Art is where you find it",
"info": "Rightnowish digs into life in the Bay Area right now… ish. Journalist Pendarvis Harshaw takes us to galleries painted on the sides of liquor stores in West Oakland. We'll dance in warehouses in the Bayview, make smoothies with kids in South Berkeley, and listen to classical music in a 1984 Cutlass Supreme in Richmond. Every week, Pen talks to movers and shakers about how the Bay Area shapes what they create, and how they shape the place we call home.",
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"info": "The Snap Judgment radio show and podcast mixes real stories with killer beats to produce cinematic, dramatic radio. Snap's musical brand of storytelling dares listeners to see the world through the eyes of another. This is storytelling... with a BEAT!! Snap first aired on public radio stations nationwide in July 2010. Today, Snap Judgment airs on over 450 public radio stations and is brought to the airwaves by KQED & PRX.",
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"soldout": {
"id": "soldout",
"title": "SOLD OUT: Rethinking Housing in America",
"tagline": "A new future for housing",
"info": "Sold Out: Rethinking Housing in America",
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