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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cem>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">While the world anticipates the changes that a new pope will bring to the Catholic church, fewer Latinos in the U.S. actually identify with Catholicism today. This week on Hyphenación, host Xorje Olivares discusses the question, “Is God still relevant to us?” with guests Hoja Lopez and Luis Galilei.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC8100497037&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Watch this episode on YouTube\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>https://youtu.be/Z61jGsi2lp0\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Guests\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hoja Lopez (\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/hojalopez?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Instagram\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.hojalopez.com/about\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">website\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">)\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Luis Galilei (\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/incapapi/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet\">Instagram\u003c/a>)\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Want to give us feedback on the series or have an idea to share? Shoot us an email at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"mailto:hyp@kqed.org\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">hyp@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003chr>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares, Host: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Y’all, the Walter Mercado candles WORKED. We have a new pope!! Which still feels a little weird to say. Que en paz descanse Papa Francisco. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But on May 8th, the papal conclave elected Cardinal Robert Prevost as the Catholic Church’s new leader. And not only is the new Pope Leo the Fourteenth our first-ever American pontiff, he’s also worked as missionary and bishop from Peru for many years. So he’s Latino-adjacent, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now it’s still too soon to say what his papacy will bring, but early responses have seemed positive. And I’m just talking about my own personal text threads. Because did y’all doubt for a second that my family and I are HELLA Catholic? The Mexican culture I grew up with is practically synonymous with Catholicism! \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But I know that’s not the case for everyone. Because as time passes and society pushes forward, younger generations are identifying weaknesses within organized religion. Like the Catholic church still officially believes that queer folks like me, and specifically transgender people, must routinely apologize for our supposed “sinful” existence – which, no thank you. It also refuses to let women become clergy or assume positions of power. And don’t get me started on the ongoing abuse scandal. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some will say that Christian institutions are hurting God’s public image, so much so that it’s pushing people away. Others might say that organized religion just isn’t relevant anymore. So, put simply – who or what do we believe in these days?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Xorje Olivares, and I’m eager to ask this question. Is God still relevant to us? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Hyphenation, where conversation and cultura meet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Xorje Olivares:\u003c/strong> So joining me today are two people with very different relationships to religion than myself, but we all grew up Catholic. And since we grew up catholic, I’m dying to figure out the last time they went to church. So joining us first is Hoja Lopez, a comedian and writer who pretty much spent her entire academic career in Venezuela going to Catholic school, which all the power to you. And now identifies as, like a spiritually fluid person. So, Hoja, thank you for joining us. And secondly, when was the last time you found yourself in church?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You have truly stumped me with this. I was trying to rock my brain. I think the last time I went, I went to a very fancy white lady and man wedding, um, in New Orleans. And there was, uh, it was like one of those grand ones that has like a giant organ in the back and like sort of expansive ceilings. And I’ll tell you what, the Catholics, we really do churches, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This was probably like 2017. I stood outside of a church two years ago waiting for my mom to come out. And my mom was sort of like beckoning me in. And I said, I’m good, I’ll stay out here. I’ll wait for you. But that, yeah, there’s something about a church, the grander it is. I don’t know if they’re trying to maybe bamboozle you a little bit to feel the sort of grandiosity of God, the bigger the church is, but um there is something about like a beautiful stained glass that makes you feel like there’s something bigger going on.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But there’s a chorus of angels just singing bringing you inside its doors, Sister Act style.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">100% \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m not sure if he’s a Sister Act fan but excited to welcome Luis Galilei, who is an actor, filmmaker, and a performer who grew up Catholic, but pretty early on rejected a lot of its teachings, is now very much a follower of Andean spirituality. And so I’m curious for you, Luis, when was the last time you were inside of a church? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I had to look it up because I wanted to put some cultural context here. The last time I was in a church, Teach me How to Dougie drop. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Whoa. Whoa, OK. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">2010 baby when I was 15, dawg. That’s the last time I stepped in there \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ll just chime in and say that for me, it was \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">the Saturday before Easter this year, before Pope Francis left us, it must have, I must have known, my body was drawing me to church in order to give my tocayo one last hurrah. Well, thank you so much for joining me today to have this conversation about religion. So there is this notion that family is the Genesis of our understanding. Oh my God, Genesis, look at what I did there, uh of our understanding of religion. So Hoja, could you talk about w hat your family’s association with religion was, especially maybe Catholicism. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sure, so I grew up with a very religious grandma and great grandma. There were people who were like waking up at 5 a.m. Every day rosary, like they would do the little like, like the whip yourself on your thigh stuff, like really hardcore Opus Dei crazy shit. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so my mom was really like kind of the first rebel of the family. I feel like there’s always a rebel. So I got to be a second generation rebel. T\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">his is just reminding me. I was, uh, I recently had this thing, recently, a couple of years ago– I called my mom and I was like, “Mom, I remember you in a copper pyramid in the middle of the living room,” and my mom’s like, “Ay si mija, I was just praying. I was meditating in the middle of the copper pyramid.” This woman is so not Catholic anymore that she had my stepdad build her a copper that she would sit in. And she would meditate because my mom’s very like woo-woo now. So now it’s a real kind of like combination for her of coming back to Catholicism as an older woman, but still holding like this very broad set of beliefs. But yeah, for her it’s real mix. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">umm hmm, I see that\u003c/span>\u003cb>. \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Luis, who would you say is the most religious person in your family when you think about religion, like at a Catholic level, Christian level, this like church going figure?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I, I never had someone in my family that was like a very much a church going figure. For me, like the Catholicism was just like,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">it was a part of our upbringing, it was a part of our life. Everything, everything had to do with it, except for going to church.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh interesting\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Luis Galilei: \u003c/b>Once I started to become of age I guess like my mom started to get like really enthused with getting me in Sunday school classes and working on my first communion like all all my family has done all the like communion and confirmation thing and that’s where it stopped and then like sometimes they go to church very like now that they’re older they go because I think they’re starting to feel their mortality So they’re like, let’s let me pray to something bigger and I’m like, oh, it’s very interesting how you guys go now Uh, God’s been watching the whole time, girl.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Laughter\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Did y’all do catechism school? Like you went through the full, I call it like a prep course, LSAT, but except for more like, what, eight years old. I imagine it’s like very similar to like, um, like the studying that you have to do for your bat mitzvah. Like you have learn so many things.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, the fact that in catechism that I acted out the prodigal son parable at least five times in my childhood. Like I was the son that came back and was like, my son, you’ve been gone for so long.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, but yeah, we would do it, we would have class right before mass. So it was like a three hour extravaganza \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So long!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think I just made a realization on why I don’t fuck with Catholicism just now b\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">ecause you were talking about acting out that thing and like you were the son and like, I didn’t grow up with my dad. Like my dad was out of my life and he chose to be out of life. And like this whole religion is about somebody’s son. And I’m like, fuck that guy. Where is he at? Oh, dang. I don’t know if that’s like real, but like maybe I was like, whoa, I feel a little like, I felt like a little vulnerable right there when you said that. And I was, like, wait, I wonder if as a little kid, like I was just like this whole son father thing, like really just, I didn’t believe in it because it wasn’t granted for me. So I was. Why? I don’t understand this. And, I was I questioned it from the get \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I love that you have this sort of like the bug in the back of your head because I didn’t have that I, I wasn’t like a kid that like knew how to beat to the rhythm of my own drum I was such a little follower as a kid. The only reason that I like um That I went to catechism school really was I really thought it was all real like and I wasn’t really into the judgment. I liked the magic of it. I like the stories of it like I liked this sort In some way, I didn’t really have like a super present dad in my life either. But there were a lot of other stories that I really sort of like identified with. And I loved all the virgins crying blood, the drama, the DRAMA.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It is a very dramatic religion. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I love that Luis, you know, when I, when they introduced you, we talked about Andean spiritual beliefs, that that’s more of where you’re headed in. Can you explain what that that means for folks who are just learning about this for the first time? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei: \u003c/b>E\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">s\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">sentially it’s praying to the earth. Pachamama is the earth then we have Inti, which is the sun god, the mammakia, which is the moon. And there’s many different Quechua names for the different aspects of Earth that you prayed to I guess how I got into it was that I learned that my family has Incan roots. My great grandmother, who I met, didn’t know how to speak Spanish. She just spoke Quechua, which was the Indigenous language of the people in the Andes before Catholicism got there and then made everyone speak Spanish. The Spaniards with Catholicism came in, told them their religion was bad, that they’re devils and that you should speak this language, which is Spanish, not your heathen language. So that whole thing sort of was like, okay, we were something closer to earth before. And I myself in my own therapeutic spiritual journey. Have felt very far away from my own self. So I started to pray in different ways and I started to find gratitude in many different places. Like the Andean sort of spirituality has made me so much– has help me achieve a peace throughout the day that I haven’t been able to in other forms. But I have seen people who follow Catholicism do, but I can see Pachamama everywhere. She talks to me in the way the earth talks to all humans. So I’ve learned and I know it’s super woo woo and I do not look like the type of person that does this, but like I’ll choose to walk home. So that I can absorb her. And if I’m not feeling well, like I will literally hug a tree. Like I will, literally touch a tree and like I’ve just seen that throughout all the cultures in this world, there’s been a common denominator, and it’s the Earth.\u003c/span>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Xorje Olivares:\u003c/strong> We’re going to take a quick break and when we come back, more Hyphenación.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[SPONSOR MESSAGE]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So like any good Catholic boy growing up in the Texas, Mexico border, uh, my family and I raised money so that way I could go to world youth day back in 2005. It is a time where you sent essentially millions of children to a specific place in the world for a pilgrimage. And it ends with a papal mass. So my family and I are fucking selling like chicken fajita plates in order to raise enough money to send me to Germany so I can go see Pope Benedict in Cologne Germany now 20 years ago. And I distinctly remember that part of this pilgrimage is we had to go to confession and because at the time I already knew I was gay had not really told many folks in my life I thought I needed to confess it that I needed to confess to this stranger priest that I was living with this truth. And when I go up to this priest, again, somebody whose name, face, I could not even describe to you, I remember sitting and saying, as I’m listing out my sins, that I was gay. And he looked at me and he said, you don’t need to say that here. And not that it was a part of him saying like, don’t mention this in church, it was… This is not to be included in the list of things that you have to ask for forgiveness for. And that stuck with me all these years later in so much so that I never felt one, that I had to confess that I was gay ever again, or two, that I ever needed to hide the fact that Diosito made a choice for me to be gay and I could live as openly and proudly as I wanted to as a Catholic person who also was of a queer experience. So I want to start with you Hoja about recognizing if your queerness could coexist with your beliefs or if there was a bit of tension that you had to work through\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I don’t think there was a ton of tension for me personally. I kind of like, as I mentioned, my mom was meditating in brass pyramids when I was growing up. So she sort of was a very pragmatic woman. I didn’t think that she was ever gonna have a real problem with me being a lesbian or me being gay. And so I guess the thing for me was really like my grandparents. I feel like I came out to, uh, I sort of actually tested the waters first with my grandma and I was like, wouldn’t it be crazy if, how crazy would it be if, um, what would be crazy if I was a lesbian or like was gay or something? But um, but I definitely was testing the waters. A\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">nd I remember her kind of saying like… Her first word of course sounded like, ew, you know? And it was such a throwaway little line, but it really kind of sets you back a little bit whenever you test the waters and it doesn’t go that well, you now? And my mom for so many years was like, don’t tell her, just, you, it’s gonna kill her. I don’t know why they always think that coming out is gonna kill the old people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">First response most people have is like, No, please, we want her to live a healthy life. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003ci> \u003c/i>Why wouldn’t she? Why wouldn’ she? She gets to know her grand person a lot better by just like knowing who they are. And I finally did come out to my grandma and I think it was a very sort of like soft okayness. I think that they really care for me and they don’t want to alienate me. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She really had to make a choice. She kind of had to choose to have me for these small moments or to really kind of not know me And I’m really glad she chose the way that she chose\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, thank you for sharing that. Yeah, it’s so beautiful. Luis, is there something as you’re now embarking on this this form of spirituality this Andean spirituality that you’ve talked about praying to the earth And praying to to the things around you Is it easy to see your queerness in that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I think because of the\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Catholic, sort of marriage between this discipline Catholicism and machismo in the very toxic way from like our Latine communities. Like I never, I never entertained like coming out. I was just like, oh, this is just like something that’s in me that I don’t necessarily like respond to much. So I was, I was like an absolute no because the men in my family wouldn’t accept me. My friends wouldn’t except me. Girls would look at me wrong. Like everything was, everything was bad. T\u003c/span>\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">hen I came into my queerness and I came out as bisexual to my friends and to other people. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then, yeah, with this Andean spirituality, like there’s no judgment on me and what I like or feel or attract to. There’s only judgment on what I do to the earth. How am I behaving to my fellow person that came out of, you know, Lago Titicaca, right? Like we came out as clay figures out of this pond, This lake in Peru, so it’s like, that is more what I am judged on, right? Like, than through my sexuality.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I have a question for either of you. But like, do you remember a time where religion served you, like Catholicism or that initial sort of like foray into it was, made you feel something?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was something positive or something negative? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, something positive, yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I feel like the thing I will say and, uh, it’s funny cause I’m wearing my rainbow wristband today, is for about six or seven years, I was a part of a gay Catholic church group in New York city and there was something so beautiful about being able to during the sign of peace, like hug other men, other gay men, and give them like the little kiss on the side of the cheek as part of the offering of peace. And I would never be able to do that in my hometown. Or in most other churches in the United States, well, pretty much in the world. So I feel like that really reminded me that community in church, community with God, especially with other people who share this identity is part of that magic you were talking about a little bit earlier. So I’ll say that. That’s probably my positive interaction. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My positive interaction is gold jewelry. That shit was lit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, dawg. The gold cross is like, every time you did something, first communion, I got my first gold cross, and I was like, whoa, this is lit. I’m going to wear it everywhere. Especially for Latinos, I don’t know, that gold jewelry thing is almost like, oh, shit, I’m out here now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I will say the most meaningful positive thing that I’ve had with that is becoming my little cousin’s Godfather. I was like, this, I was just like, I do, I feel him. He’s in the room. You know what I mean? Like he’s like giving me, he’s giving me the opportunity to be a father figure. Again, I have a lot to do with like my absent father, like with my traumas and everything. So like, I was this is incredible.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">even though I don’ believe in the practice that we’re doing here, I believe in You and I accept this responsibility through Your hands. I felt very divinely charged. I was like, OK, this is my commitment and I love that there’s a word for it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Padrino is a very gay term padrino. It’s like yeah, it’s like it’s adding sort of like a little flair at the end of body.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I love the little hands, it’s like, how did he know I am? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Padrino \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wait, Hoja, do you have a positive moment? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah, in\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Venezuela, we have a big mix of like santeria and Catholicism and those things really kind of weave interchangeably. And so we have lot of really amazing like female figures as kind of heads of church,\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">and they really take this sort of almost like God-like aspects to themselves. We\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> have La Virgen de Coromoto, de Chiquinquirá, La Virgain Maria, but we also have this woman called Maria Leonza. And Maria Leonza is this very like muscular, gorgeous, like almost like witch figure that is like mainstream in Venezuela. And I just remember her being the first woman that I ever saw that wasn’t like thin, that wasn’ frail, that wasn’t white. And so to me, it was kind of like queerness in her. I saw a lot of like otherness in her that I really identified with. And Maria Leónza has always been something that like accompanies me in my life now.\u003c/span>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I want to end with this last question, which is \u003c/span>\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I want to see if you have a an image in your head when you think of the word God. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, this is just the first thing that came to mind, but I think I see myself alone. I see my self like on a bench and I’m fed, I’m not thirsty, I don’t have any need that needs to be fulfilled. And there’s beautiful weather and I feel the breeze on my face and in my hair and I’m breathing deeply and I don’t even have to meditate on purpose. I don’ have to think on purpose, I don’t have to not think on the purpose. I think it’s just like when I’m being. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I have a lot of those moments in my life where I get to just… Just kind of be. I would say that’s the image that comes to mind for me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That is so beautiful. I love that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">God, I want to copy that so bad, there’s so much better than what I was thinking. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What were you thinking Luis?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, you said, what does God look like? And then I was like, I just, I don’t know. The sun came into my mind. Cause like, again, that’s like my, like the Andean thing. Cause it gives life to so much. But then I’m like, all right, what would it be? So I’m, like, and then, and I was like, oh, black trans Jesus. That’s, that, that what he looks like\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> [\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Laughter\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">and she’s fabulous and she can vogue. But then I was like, no, come on, what is it? And I came down to like a voice, just like the voice in my head, not the bad voice, not that one, but the voice that like my intuition, I guess, the voice that sends the signal to my stomach to go for something, even though I’m nervous about it. The voice that says the signal to my legs to get myself out of a situation because it just doesn’t feel right. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like that holds the mirror up to me in certain situations. And like, is this, how do you want to act in this situation? Like, you know what you want to be in the example you want to be, is how that person would act? It’s the voice in my head. It’s, it’s the intuition that guides me without me asking for it. But I think that’s what God is, God’s a voice.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, I will say I, one thing that I appreciate that somebody told me, especially in this, um, gay Catholic group that I was a part of is that God’s pronoun is God. And so this understanding that there’s a gender to him, her, they, that it’s just God and you have to appreciate God. And for me, I appreciate it. And for me I see God, you know, those hugs that you give people when you either, you haven’t seen them in a very long time, or you realize like, my God, I have so much love for you. Those like intense bear hugs. I feel like that is such a manifestation of God and God’s love and like being able to transfer whatever that energy is into an interaction with another person. I’m getting chills now just thinking about it. It’s just like, there’s something so beautiful about. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If I could, I would give you both one of those hugs right now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’d sniff you both. I’d get in there. I take a big noseful of that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ll squeeze, squeeze real tight\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, this has been such a fantastic conversation, not only about religion and queerness, but just being around two people who I love and admire so much and really make me think about my faith. \u003c/span>\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And even though I might not look like the same one from catechism class, it’s still all an act of love. So. I cannot thank you enough for joining me for today’s call. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you for having me. And as my mom would say: Que dios me los bendigan, me los ampare, que los angelos reconozcan tu camino y iluminan cada uno de tus pasos. Every time I leave the house, baby. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Con Dios\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>Well, I do want to let our listeners know that if you want to follow any one of my guests, just go to our show notes, all of their information where you can see them on social, where you could possibly see them live, all that will be there. And if you want to send us either your own experience with religion or a topic you’d like to have us cover on hyphenation, just email us at hyp at kqed.org. But until then, go in peace.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hyphenación is a KQED Studios production. It’s produced by Ana De Almeida Amaral, Alex Tran, and Xorje Olivares. Chris Hambrick is our editor. Mixing and mastering by Christopher Beale. Jen Chien is executive producer, and KQED’s director of podcasts. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Hyphenación team is supported by our audience engagement producer Maha Sanad; podcast operations intern Alana Walker; podcast operations manager Katie Sprenger; video operations manager Vivian Morales; and our Chief Content Officer Holly Kernan. Special thanks to Chris Egusa, Martina Castro, Paulina Velasco and Megan Tan for their development support.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cem>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">While the world anticipates the changes that a new pope will bring to the Catholic church, fewer Latinos in the U.S. actually identify with Catholicism today. This week on Hyphenación, host Xorje Olivares discusses the question, “Is God still relevant to us?” with guests Hoja Lopez and Luis Galilei.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC8100497037&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Watch this episode on YouTube\u003c/h2>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/Z61jGsi2lp0'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/Z61jGsi2lp0'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cb>Guests\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hoja Lopez (\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/hojalopez?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Instagram\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.hojalopez.com/about\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">website\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">)\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Luis Galilei (\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/incapapi/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet\">Instagram\u003c/a>)\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Want to give us feedback on the series or have an idea to share? Shoot us an email at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"mailto:hyp@kqed.org\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">hyp@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003chr>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares, Host: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Y’all, the Walter Mercado candles WORKED. We have a new pope!! Which still feels a little weird to say. Que en paz descanse Papa Francisco. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But on May 8th, the papal conclave elected Cardinal Robert Prevost as the Catholic Church’s new leader. And not only is the new Pope Leo the Fourteenth our first-ever American pontiff, he’s also worked as missionary and bishop from Peru for many years. So he’s Latino-adjacent, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now it’s still too soon to say what his papacy will bring, but early responses have seemed positive. And I’m just talking about my own personal text threads. Because did y’all doubt for a second that my family and I are HELLA Catholic? The Mexican culture I grew up with is practically synonymous with Catholicism! \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But I know that’s not the case for everyone. Because as time passes and society pushes forward, younger generations are identifying weaknesses within organized religion. Like the Catholic church still officially believes that queer folks like me, and specifically transgender people, must routinely apologize for our supposed “sinful” existence – which, no thank you. It also refuses to let women become clergy or assume positions of power. And don’t get me started on the ongoing abuse scandal. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some will say that Christian institutions are hurting God’s public image, so much so that it’s pushing people away. Others might say that organized religion just isn’t relevant anymore. So, put simply – who or what do we believe in these days?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Xorje Olivares, and I’m eager to ask this question. Is God still relevant to us? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Hyphenation, where conversation and cultura meet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Xorje Olivares:\u003c/strong> So joining me today are two people with very different relationships to religion than myself, but we all grew up Catholic. And since we grew up catholic, I’m dying to figure out the last time they went to church. So joining us first is Hoja Lopez, a comedian and writer who pretty much spent her entire academic career in Venezuela going to Catholic school, which all the power to you. And now identifies as, like a spiritually fluid person. So, Hoja, thank you for joining us. And secondly, when was the last time you found yourself in church?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You have truly stumped me with this. I was trying to rock my brain. I think the last time I went, I went to a very fancy white lady and man wedding, um, in New Orleans. And there was, uh, it was like one of those grand ones that has like a giant organ in the back and like sort of expansive ceilings. And I’ll tell you what, the Catholics, we really do churches, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This was probably like 2017. I stood outside of a church two years ago waiting for my mom to come out. And my mom was sort of like beckoning me in. And I said, I’m good, I’ll stay out here. I’ll wait for you. But that, yeah, there’s something about a church, the grander it is. I don’t know if they’re trying to maybe bamboozle you a little bit to feel the sort of grandiosity of God, the bigger the church is, but um there is something about like a beautiful stained glass that makes you feel like there’s something bigger going on.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But there’s a chorus of angels just singing bringing you inside its doors, Sister Act style.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">100% \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m not sure if he’s a Sister Act fan but excited to welcome Luis Galilei, who is an actor, filmmaker, and a performer who grew up Catholic, but pretty early on rejected a lot of its teachings, is now very much a follower of Andean spirituality. And so I’m curious for you, Luis, when was the last time you were inside of a church? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I had to look it up because I wanted to put some cultural context here. The last time I was in a church, Teach me How to Dougie drop. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Whoa. Whoa, OK. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">2010 baby when I was 15, dawg. That’s the last time I stepped in there \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ll just chime in and say that for me, it was \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">the Saturday before Easter this year, before Pope Francis left us, it must have, I must have known, my body was drawing me to church in order to give my tocayo one last hurrah. Well, thank you so much for joining me today to have this conversation about religion. So there is this notion that family is the Genesis of our understanding. Oh my God, Genesis, look at what I did there, uh of our understanding of religion. So Hoja, could you talk about w hat your family’s association with religion was, especially maybe Catholicism. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sure, so I grew up with a very religious grandma and great grandma. There were people who were like waking up at 5 a.m. Every day rosary, like they would do the little like, like the whip yourself on your thigh stuff, like really hardcore Opus Dei crazy shit. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so my mom was really like kind of the first rebel of the family. I feel like there’s always a rebel. So I got to be a second generation rebel. T\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">his is just reminding me. I was, uh, I recently had this thing, recently, a couple of years ago– I called my mom and I was like, “Mom, I remember you in a copper pyramid in the middle of the living room,” and my mom’s like, “Ay si mija, I was just praying. I was meditating in the middle of the copper pyramid.” This woman is so not Catholic anymore that she had my stepdad build her a copper that she would sit in. And she would meditate because my mom’s very like woo-woo now. So now it’s a real kind of like combination for her of coming back to Catholicism as an older woman, but still holding like this very broad set of beliefs. But yeah, for her it’s real mix. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">umm hmm, I see that\u003c/span>\u003cb>. \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Luis, who would you say is the most religious person in your family when you think about religion, like at a Catholic level, Christian level, this like church going figure?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I, I never had someone in my family that was like a very much a church going figure. For me, like the Catholicism was just like,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">it was a part of our upbringing, it was a part of our life. Everything, everything had to do with it, except for going to church.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh interesting\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Luis Galilei: \u003c/b>Once I started to become of age I guess like my mom started to get like really enthused with getting me in Sunday school classes and working on my first communion like all all my family has done all the like communion and confirmation thing and that’s where it stopped and then like sometimes they go to church very like now that they’re older they go because I think they’re starting to feel their mortality So they’re like, let’s let me pray to something bigger and I’m like, oh, it’s very interesting how you guys go now Uh, God’s been watching the whole time, girl.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Laughter\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Did y’all do catechism school? Like you went through the full, I call it like a prep course, LSAT, but except for more like, what, eight years old. I imagine it’s like very similar to like, um, like the studying that you have to do for your bat mitzvah. Like you have learn so many things.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, the fact that in catechism that I acted out the prodigal son parable at least five times in my childhood. Like I was the son that came back and was like, my son, you’ve been gone for so long.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, but yeah, we would do it, we would have class right before mass. So it was like a three hour extravaganza \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So long!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think I just made a realization on why I don’t fuck with Catholicism just now b\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">ecause you were talking about acting out that thing and like you were the son and like, I didn’t grow up with my dad. Like my dad was out of my life and he chose to be out of life. And like this whole religion is about somebody’s son. And I’m like, fuck that guy. Where is he at? Oh, dang. I don’t know if that’s like real, but like maybe I was like, whoa, I feel a little like, I felt like a little vulnerable right there when you said that. And I was, like, wait, I wonder if as a little kid, like I was just like this whole son father thing, like really just, I didn’t believe in it because it wasn’t granted for me. So I was. Why? I don’t understand this. And, I was I questioned it from the get \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I love that you have this sort of like the bug in the back of your head because I didn’t have that I, I wasn’t like a kid that like knew how to beat to the rhythm of my own drum I was such a little follower as a kid. The only reason that I like um That I went to catechism school really was I really thought it was all real like and I wasn’t really into the judgment. I liked the magic of it. I like the stories of it like I liked this sort In some way, I didn’t really have like a super present dad in my life either. But there were a lot of other stories that I really sort of like identified with. And I loved all the virgins crying blood, the drama, the DRAMA.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It is a very dramatic religion. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I love that Luis, you know, when I, when they introduced you, we talked about Andean spiritual beliefs, that that’s more of where you’re headed in. Can you explain what that that means for folks who are just learning about this for the first time? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei: \u003c/b>E\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">s\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">sentially it’s praying to the earth. Pachamama is the earth then we have Inti, which is the sun god, the mammakia, which is the moon. And there’s many different Quechua names for the different aspects of Earth that you prayed to I guess how I got into it was that I learned that my family has Incan roots. My great grandmother, who I met, didn’t know how to speak Spanish. She just spoke Quechua, which was the Indigenous language of the people in the Andes before Catholicism got there and then made everyone speak Spanish. The Spaniards with Catholicism came in, told them their religion was bad, that they’re devils and that you should speak this language, which is Spanish, not your heathen language. So that whole thing sort of was like, okay, we were something closer to earth before. And I myself in my own therapeutic spiritual journey. Have felt very far away from my own self. So I started to pray in different ways and I started to find gratitude in many different places. Like the Andean sort of spirituality has made me so much– has help me achieve a peace throughout the day that I haven’t been able to in other forms. But I have seen people who follow Catholicism do, but I can see Pachamama everywhere. She talks to me in the way the earth talks to all humans. So I’ve learned and I know it’s super woo woo and I do not look like the type of person that does this, but like I’ll choose to walk home. So that I can absorb her. And if I’m not feeling well, like I will literally hug a tree. Like I will, literally touch a tree and like I’ve just seen that throughout all the cultures in this world, there’s been a common denominator, and it’s the Earth.\u003c/span>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Xorje Olivares:\u003c/strong> We’re going to take a quick break and when we come back, more Hyphenación.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[SPONSOR MESSAGE]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So like any good Catholic boy growing up in the Texas, Mexico border, uh, my family and I raised money so that way I could go to world youth day back in 2005. It is a time where you sent essentially millions of children to a specific place in the world for a pilgrimage. And it ends with a papal mass. So my family and I are fucking selling like chicken fajita plates in order to raise enough money to send me to Germany so I can go see Pope Benedict in Cologne Germany now 20 years ago. And I distinctly remember that part of this pilgrimage is we had to go to confession and because at the time I already knew I was gay had not really told many folks in my life I thought I needed to confess it that I needed to confess to this stranger priest that I was living with this truth. And when I go up to this priest, again, somebody whose name, face, I could not even describe to you, I remember sitting and saying, as I’m listing out my sins, that I was gay. And he looked at me and he said, you don’t need to say that here. And not that it was a part of him saying like, don’t mention this in church, it was… This is not to be included in the list of things that you have to ask for forgiveness for. And that stuck with me all these years later in so much so that I never felt one, that I had to confess that I was gay ever again, or two, that I ever needed to hide the fact that Diosito made a choice for me to be gay and I could live as openly and proudly as I wanted to as a Catholic person who also was of a queer experience. So I want to start with you Hoja about recognizing if your queerness could coexist with your beliefs or if there was a bit of tension that you had to work through\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I don’t think there was a ton of tension for me personally. I kind of like, as I mentioned, my mom was meditating in brass pyramids when I was growing up. So she sort of was a very pragmatic woman. I didn’t think that she was ever gonna have a real problem with me being a lesbian or me being gay. And so I guess the thing for me was really like my grandparents. I feel like I came out to, uh, I sort of actually tested the waters first with my grandma and I was like, wouldn’t it be crazy if, how crazy would it be if, um, what would be crazy if I was a lesbian or like was gay or something? But um, but I definitely was testing the waters. A\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">nd I remember her kind of saying like… Her first word of course sounded like, ew, you know? And it was such a throwaway little line, but it really kind of sets you back a little bit whenever you test the waters and it doesn’t go that well, you now? And my mom for so many years was like, don’t tell her, just, you, it’s gonna kill her. I don’t know why they always think that coming out is gonna kill the old people.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">First response most people have is like, No, please, we want her to live a healthy life. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003ci> \u003c/i>Why wouldn’t she? Why wouldn’ she? She gets to know her grand person a lot better by just like knowing who they are. And I finally did come out to my grandma and I think it was a very sort of like soft okayness. I think that they really care for me and they don’t want to alienate me. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She really had to make a choice. She kind of had to choose to have me for these small moments or to really kind of not know me And I’m really glad she chose the way that she chose\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, thank you for sharing that. Yeah, it’s so beautiful. Luis, is there something as you’re now embarking on this this form of spirituality this Andean spirituality that you’ve talked about praying to the earth And praying to to the things around you Is it easy to see your queerness in that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I think because of the\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Catholic, sort of marriage between this discipline Catholicism and machismo in the very toxic way from like our Latine communities. Like I never, I never entertained like coming out. I was just like, oh, this is just like something that’s in me that I don’t necessarily like respond to much. So I was, I was like an absolute no because the men in my family wouldn’t accept me. My friends wouldn’t except me. Girls would look at me wrong. Like everything was, everything was bad. T\u003c/span>\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">hen I came into my queerness and I came out as bisexual to my friends and to other people. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then, yeah, with this Andean spirituality, like there’s no judgment on me and what I like or feel or attract to. There’s only judgment on what I do to the earth. How am I behaving to my fellow person that came out of, you know, Lago Titicaca, right? Like we came out as clay figures out of this pond, This lake in Peru, so it’s like, that is more what I am judged on, right? Like, than through my sexuality.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I have a question for either of you. But like, do you remember a time where religion served you, like Catholicism or that initial sort of like foray into it was, made you feel something?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was something positive or something negative? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, something positive, yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I feel like the thing I will say and, uh, it’s funny cause I’m wearing my rainbow wristband today, is for about six or seven years, I was a part of a gay Catholic church group in New York city and there was something so beautiful about being able to during the sign of peace, like hug other men, other gay men, and give them like the little kiss on the side of the cheek as part of the offering of peace. And I would never be able to do that in my hometown. Or in most other churches in the United States, well, pretty much in the world. So I feel like that really reminded me that community in church, community with God, especially with other people who share this identity is part of that magic you were talking about a little bit earlier. So I’ll say that. That’s probably my positive interaction. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My positive interaction is gold jewelry. That shit was lit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, dawg. The gold cross is like, every time you did something, first communion, I got my first gold cross, and I was like, whoa, this is lit. I’m going to wear it everywhere. Especially for Latinos, I don’t know, that gold jewelry thing is almost like, oh, shit, I’m out here now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I will say the most meaningful positive thing that I’ve had with that is becoming my little cousin’s Godfather. I was like, this, I was just like, I do, I feel him. He’s in the room. You know what I mean? Like he’s like giving me, he’s giving me the opportunity to be a father figure. Again, I have a lot to do with like my absent father, like with my traumas and everything. So like, I was this is incredible.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">even though I don’ believe in the practice that we’re doing here, I believe in You and I accept this responsibility through Your hands. I felt very divinely charged. I was like, OK, this is my commitment and I love that there’s a word for it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Padrino is a very gay term padrino. It’s like yeah, it’s like it’s adding sort of like a little flair at the end of body.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I love the little hands, it’s like, how did he know I am? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Padrino \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wait, Hoja, do you have a positive moment? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah, in\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Venezuela, we have a big mix of like santeria and Catholicism and those things really kind of weave interchangeably. And so we have lot of really amazing like female figures as kind of heads of church,\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">and they really take this sort of almost like God-like aspects to themselves. We\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> have La Virgen de Coromoto, de Chiquinquirá, La Virgain Maria, but we also have this woman called Maria Leonza. And Maria Leonza is this very like muscular, gorgeous, like almost like witch figure that is like mainstream in Venezuela. And I just remember her being the first woman that I ever saw that wasn’t like thin, that wasn’ frail, that wasn’t white. And so to me, it was kind of like queerness in her. I saw a lot of like otherness in her that I really identified with. And Maria Leónza has always been something that like accompanies me in my life now.\u003c/span>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I want to end with this last question, which is \u003c/span>\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I want to see if you have a an image in your head when you think of the word God. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, this is just the first thing that came to mind, but I think I see myself alone. I see my self like on a bench and I’m fed, I’m not thirsty, I don’t have any need that needs to be fulfilled. And there’s beautiful weather and I feel the breeze on my face and in my hair and I’m breathing deeply and I don’t even have to meditate on purpose. I don’ have to think on purpose, I don’t have to not think on the purpose. I think it’s just like when I’m being. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I have a lot of those moments in my life where I get to just… Just kind of be. I would say that’s the image that comes to mind for me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That is so beautiful. I love that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">God, I want to copy that so bad, there’s so much better than what I was thinking. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What were you thinking Luis?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, you said, what does God look like? And then I was like, I just, I don’t know. The sun came into my mind. Cause like, again, that’s like my, like the Andean thing. Cause it gives life to so much. But then I’m like, all right, what would it be? So I’m, like, and then, and I was like, oh, black trans Jesus. That’s, that, that what he looks like\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> [\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Laughter\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">and she’s fabulous and she can vogue. But then I was like, no, come on, what is it? And I came down to like a voice, just like the voice in my head, not the bad voice, not that one, but the voice that like my intuition, I guess, the voice that sends the signal to my stomach to go for something, even though I’m nervous about it. The voice that says the signal to my legs to get myself out of a situation because it just doesn’t feel right. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like that holds the mirror up to me in certain situations. And like, is this, how do you want to act in this situation? Like, you know what you want to be in the example you want to be, is how that person would act? It’s the voice in my head. It’s, it’s the intuition that guides me without me asking for it. But I think that’s what God is, God’s a voice.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, I will say I, one thing that I appreciate that somebody told me, especially in this, um, gay Catholic group that I was a part of is that God’s pronoun is God. And so this understanding that there’s a gender to him, her, they, that it’s just God and you have to appreciate God. And for me, I appreciate it. And for me I see God, you know, those hugs that you give people when you either, you haven’t seen them in a very long time, or you realize like, my God, I have so much love for you. Those like intense bear hugs. I feel like that is such a manifestation of God and God’s love and like being able to transfer whatever that energy is into an interaction with another person. I’m getting chills now just thinking about it. It’s just like, there’s something so beautiful about. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If I could, I would give you both one of those hugs right now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’d sniff you both. I’d get in there. I take a big noseful of that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ll squeeze, squeeze real tight\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, this has been such a fantastic conversation, not only about religion and queerness, but just being around two people who I love and admire so much and really make me think about my faith. \u003c/span>\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And even though I might not look like the same one from catechism class, it’s still all an act of love. So. I cannot thank you enough for joining me for today’s call. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Hoja Lopez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you for having me. And as my mom would say: Que dios me los bendigan, me los ampare, que los angelos reconozcan tu camino y iluminan cada uno de tus pasos. Every time I leave the house, baby. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luis Galilei:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Con Dios\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>Well, I do want to let our listeners know that if you want to follow any one of my guests, just go to our show notes, all of their information where you can see them on social, where you could possibly see them live, all that will be there. And if you want to send us either your own experience with religion or a topic you’d like to have us cover on hyphenation, just email us at hyp at kqed.org. But until then, go in peace.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hyphenación is a KQED Studios production. It’s produced by Ana De Almeida Amaral, Alex Tran, and Xorje Olivares. Chris Hambrick is our editor. Mixing and mastering by Christopher Beale. Jen Chien is executive producer, and KQED’s director of podcasts. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Hyphenación team is supported by our audience engagement producer Maha Sanad; podcast operations intern Alana Walker; podcast operations manager Katie Sprenger; video operations manager Vivian Morales; and our Chief Content Officer Holly Kernan. Special thanks to Chris Egusa, Martina Castro, Paulina Velasco and Megan Tan for their development support.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cem>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Host Xorje Olivares has never been one for sharing, especially when it comes to a lover. This week on Hyphenación, Xorje speaks with Fernanda Fabian and Manuel Betancourt, two seasoned practitioners of non-monogamy, to talk about breaking free from monogamy, their relationships with their Latino parents, and following desires.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC2996639416&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003c/h2>\n\u003ch2>Watch this episode on YouTube\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>https://youtu.be/bQx1tKELmuI\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Guests\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Fernanda Fabian (\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3TpsmC4gNO618CZe0Ou1Fr?si=2a537b3e4c744acb\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Polycurious Podcast\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://url.us.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/tWXsCwpkPvsAnVxWsVf7cJ7v8X?domain=polycurious.com\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Website\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">,\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://url.us.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/3ZY7CxklQwf9jRv3IvhZcy77Zp?domain=instagram.com\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Instagram\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://url.us.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/4QMRCyPmRxs032oRhQiJcxH2z9?domain=tiktok.com\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tiktok\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://url.us.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/ujVBCzpn0ysxzwqAiKslc9YehK?domain=patreon.com\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Patreon\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">)\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Manuel Betancourt (\u003ca href=\"https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/757080/hello-stranger-by-manuel-betancourt/\">\u003ci>Hello Stranger\u003c/i>\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/bmanuel/?hl=en\">Instagram\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://mbetancourtcom.wordpress.com/\">Website\u003c/a>)\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the series or have an idea to share? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:hyp@kqed.org\">hyp@kqed.org\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003chr>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know we’re only just now starting to get to know each other, but there’s something about me you have to know. And believe me, once I tell you, you’re probably going to look at me in a completely different light. Which is a risk I’m willing to take if it means standing in my truth. Ok. Here it goes: I – Xorje Andrés Olivares Urbina – am an aggressive monogamist. I know, right? Y con este cuerpazo? I should be sharing it with everyone who has a thing for chaparritos like me!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But alas, I’ve never been one for sharing…at least not when it comes to my romantic partners. In fact, when I was dating, it was one of the first few questions I would ask: it was like “what do you do for work? Any siblings? What are your concrete thoughts on open relationships and are you ok having sex with me and just me?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay it was never that forward as that, but I was pretty clear upfront with any potential suitor that – I was looking for an exclusive partner. For me, that meant having them as my only love interest, and I theirs. And I want to make sure I specify “love interest” because I absolutely understand that a single person cannot fulfill our every need as adults. That’s what friends, family, coworkers, hobbies are for and I’m not one of those tóxicas. Or am I? But seriously, am I being too rigid in my thinking on this? Should we ALL be breaking free from the prison of monogamy? I’m Xorje Olivares, and today I’m asking the question: Are you comfortable sharing your partner with another lover?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Hyphenación – where conversation and cultura meet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I’ve been really looking forward to today’s conversation because it is such a sexy topic, I felt like we needed to start with a sexy question. And so I’m gonna ask my two guests who are joining me today what they find sexy in another person. Because for me, it is tattoos. If somebody walks in with tattoos right now and like a bonus if they got an ear pierced, then I am just putty in their hands. And yes, do with that imagery what you will. I’m excited to first welcome to the program Fernanda Fabian, who is a relationship coach and the host of the Polycurious podcast, where she facilitates conversations about non-monogamy. Fernanda, thank you so much for joining us today. And I want to ask you, what do you find sexy in another person? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fernanda Fabian:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I love that question. And you know, my answer might surprise you a little bit because I’m not sure everyone feels that way. But one thing that I always find attractive is when someone says that they’re going to therapy. Because that means that they are actually working on themselves. They’re actually introspective. Hopefully that means they might be better communicating or more aware of their issues. And to me, as much as I do care about physical appearance, sometimes just someone who’s working on their stuff and is able to communicate is just a turn-on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Love that. Making me think differently about this whole topic. Well, thank you so much for joining us and for providing that answer.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Also excited to welcome Manuel Betancourt, who is a culture writer and the author of the new book, Hello Stranger, which talks about the seductive potential of what it means to be with strangers. Manuel, what is something you find sexy in another person? Whether it is a physical trait, personality trait… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Manuel Betancourt: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I was struggling. I was like, do I go with the physical trade? I love me some arms. So a nice bicep is sort of where-that’s my sweet spot. But for me, the thing that really grabs me is confidence. Like if someone can walk into a room and sort of lock eyes with me, and just that’s what turns me into putty. That’s what sort of makes me melt. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I’m excited for us to have this chat. And I want us to get into this, especially starting with you Fernanda, about if you could tell us about what your relationship dynamics are and how you started this journey towards what you talk about in your podcast, Polycurious. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fernanda Fabian: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, of course. So I actually have a very interesting dynamic, which I like to talk about, because I believe that other people might want to consider it. In my case, I am non-monogamous. I’m playing with calling myself poly at this point, because I recently started seeing someone that I’m calling my partner, but that had never happened before. However, my primary partner, who I have been with for almost seven years, is monogamous. So as you can imagine, that’s a very rare situation, rare dynamic, where one person is monogamous and the other person is non-monogamous, especially if the non-monogamous person is the woman. So I’m not an advocate for monogamy or non-monogamy. I just think that people should do whatever works for them. And for me and my partner, that is what works. So that’s why I decided to start the podcast, become a coach and do this work to show other people that it’s possible to do it in a healthy way.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nice. Manuel, I like the phrasing that Fernanda used about just what works for you. What currently works for you? What is your relationship dynamic currently?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Manuel Betancourt: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, my current relationship dynamic is, I’m in what people would normally call a throuple. And so there’s three of us, and I met them when they had been together for five years. And so we started sort of hanging out, and it soon was clear that the three of us were sort of operating as a unit, as a romantic unit. And so, we like to say that we’re sort of this closed romantic triangle, but it’s very porous sexually. So we sort of practice, it’s an open relationship. We practice consensual non-monogamy. We’re very open and honest about what we do and what we allow ourselves to do with other people, sometimes with each other, sometimes at different place spaces. And that’s sort of what works for us right now. And that came from after being years monogamous sort of marriage. And after I got divorced, I made a conscious choice of what I realized that I wanted, what I realized that what I was looking for and really wanted in a relationship was a kind of openness. And so I never set out to be like, okay, now I’m going to be part of a throuple or now I am going to be a part of poly relationship or polycule. It’s just, as soon as I open the floodgates in my mind to be, like, I’m gonna be open to any kind of relationship dynamic. That grows organically and that sort of fulfills me romantically, sexually, you know, spiritually in all these different ways, like I’m just going to follow that. And what happened was sort of this, um, the throuple and we’re now going on. It’s going to be almost three years now. And Thats where I’m at right now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I do want to ask Manuel, if there was any hesitation on your part to joining some relationship dynamic. They already knew how to talk to each other. They already know how to fight with one another. They already how to, like, what their body language was with one another. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Manuel Betancourt: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh,\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">absolutely. And in this, the thing that helped me was that I was in therapy. The thing that I talked about during those first few weeks in therapy was like, I don’t know if I can do this. And like, I needed someone to help me, guide me through and to sort of feel, because it felt like I wasn’t just joining a relationship. It was like I was joining a kind of partnership. They had been together for a while, they lived together, they had this like life together. Like, calibrating that took like a year, just sort of trying to find our bearings so that we would all feel comfortable. Because there was also hesitation on their part, Like they were, this was something that was established and they were also not looking for a third, they were not looking to sort of change. Their dynamic, a lot of stuff they had sort of down pat. And I then became the thing that illuminated a lot of stuff about their relationship and sort of the thing that my therapist at the time kept saying was like, you know, if you found yourself in this situation it’s because there was room for you in the relationship and that they’re making room for that being sort of a very active choice that the three of us were making. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I feel like a lot of this comes down to communication. Each of you have talked a little bit about that. And I want to go to you Fernanda and ask about what that communication looked like with your partner where you’ve brought up this notion of maybe we should try something a little different.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fernanda Fabian: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, of course, I actually brought it up the second day we met, \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, okay,\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fernanda Fabian: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, by the time I met Seth, we actually met at Burning Man. So I think that also contributed to us being like super open and honest from the beginning. So, uh, we were both coming from a very like open space and, you know, the second day, the second night we met, we already felt like this was something really special, sometimes that doesn’t last after Burning Man, but in our case it did. So we were just like putting everything on the table. At that point I had friends that were open. I wasn’t non-monogamous in a primary relationship but I was already having friends with benefits that knew about each other and I was already clear that that’s what I wanted. And when I brought it up, he said, you know, I’m open to it and, you know we’ll figure it out. And then about like a month after we met, he was actually living in San Francisco, I was living in New York, and we were visiting each other and at some point he was like, hey, do you want to be my girlfriend? Which I found adorable because I hadn’t been asked that since high school. But I was like really into him, like feeling like this was really right and I just said yes. And then about like 15 minutes later, I was like hold on one second, does this mean that I cannot have sex with other people. Is that what being a girlfriend means? And he was like, yes. And I was like okay, well, that’s fine. I can make that sacrifice. But I could do that because I knew from the beginning that he was open to it down the line. He was very clear. He said, right now I don’t feel ready for that, but I want to give you what you want. I don’t know if I can, but I will try. So let’s go on stages. He’s also an introvert, so he loves his alone time and he loves to stay home. I’m an extrovert. So for him, it’s not like he’s opposed to non-monogamy and obviously he has the option and I hope that one day he finds someone that he wants to explore with, but he just doesn’t feel the need. So, you know, it was a slow process. And at some points, I was like, Oh, can I just, can I do it? Can I just go on the date? Because he’d be like, Okay, you can, You know, you can go on a date with someone, but they, you know… It’s better if they have a partner as well, and it’s better if it’s someone that you knew before you met me, so it’s not as much of a threat. There were important steps, because they gave him the opportunity to get used to that. So obviously, the first time I went to a play party, the first time I went on a date, he was having a difficult time, but he honestly is amazing and never put that jealousy or that like discomfort on me. He did say, okay, I’m feeling a little bit like, I don’t want to be close to you when you come back from dates, for example, because I’m having a hard time. So then we agreed that when I’d come back from a date which like for me was the opposite. I was just like. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You want to tell him all the information! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Manuel Betancourt: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Laughter]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fernanda Fabian:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I was just like on cloud nine from meeting a new person. And then, you know, interestingly enough, that sexual energy, that new relationship energy, as people call it, actually comes back to my primary relationship. So I’d want to connect, you know, and even if we didn’t have sex, I want to like be close and cuddle. And he’d be like, okay, I need a little bit of more time to reconnect after you come back from a date. So we, it was a lot of trial and error. I always recommend people to do it that way, because if we had just started…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Gone off the deep end\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fernanda Fabian:\u003c/b> \u003cb> …\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">open right away. He might have had a lot of jealousy, insecurity, a lot of difficult emotions, and it would have been a lot more difficult to actually get where we wanted to go because there would have been a lots of missteps and then repair and all of that. Although some people argue that you should start open right away if that’s what you want, which I think if you have experience with non-monogamy, if you both have experiences with non monogamy that can also work potentially, but The way it worked for me was to. Go very slowly, reassess, talk about feelings, and move from there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just feel like it might be so hard I can see that like it takes those early conversations, it takes figuring out what the parameters are, figuring out what your boundaries are. And so Manuel was it easy once you started pursuing non- monogamy to be open and honest and transparent about your feelings of like That’s okay with me and that’s not okay with me.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Manuel Betancourt: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, it took a while. And the other part was, I was dealing with two people, two people who had gone through that process and had figured it out for themselves. So they knew what worked for one another, what parties they go to, what was allowed and what was not allowed. So by the time I came in, there was like no rules. They were very like, you can do whatever you want. A lot of it was sexual. Like we don’t, romantic and dates, like those are not really things of the three of us partake or are interested. I think also because there’s three of us, so they’re like, there’s just enough, just a scheduling a date between the three of us is hard enough. Like, trying just to like… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m free Thursday at 3, but then yeah, I don’t quite know where that fits in.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Manuel Betancourt: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, but trying to figure out what I was comfortable with, that maybe the two of them had figured out, worked for them, and then I would be like, oh, actually, like, I get pangs of jealousy, but I don’t want to disrupt what the two them had achieved. So it did took a little bit of a while. It was a little bit of trial and error and I think the thing I kept coming back to is like, it’s okay to be jealous. It’s not okay to make that jealousy that someone else’s problem, right? Like, I can have those feelings, I can have feelings of fear, of anxiety, of inadequacy, of jealousy, like, but learning to not lead with those and learning not to act on those instinctively. Took a while– What does this mean? Is it because I’m insecure? Is it because I need more cuddling? Is it because I need more reassurance? Is it because I felt like you were choosing someone else over me? Uh and it took a while to sort of learn the language. I feel like it still happens to us like sometimes none of this is perfect. Uh none of it is like you you know you don’t get like a diploma and say now, you’re great at being poly. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughter]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Manuel Betancourt: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, it’s sort of every single time is something different. And I have gotten better at it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[SPONSOR MESSAGE]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I wanna share a quick story. My partner and I just recently got engaged and it was a fun little like, oh my God, we did it moment. But it was funny because at least two different people after we announced our engagement came up to us and asked us if this was now the moment we were gonna try to be in an open relationship. And I thought it was interesting because it kind of came almost as soon as they said, congratulations. I was like, oh, okay, now you’re making me think at a time where I didn’t know we were going to. Confronted with this question. But I will say that especially as a queer person, as a cisgender gay man, I feel like I receive a lot of judgment because of my decision to be monogamous and because I am pursuing something that seems to feel a bit more heteronormative and a bit more traditional. But I do want to focus in on this issue of judgment. And starting with you Fernanda about having to navigate, feeling judged, not just by family, whoever else you encounter, but by people you feel very close with and wanna feel like you have a deep connection to. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fernanda Fabian: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, of course. Well, I have to be honest. I’ve been very, very lucky. I grew up in a very liberal family, even though we grew up in Mexico. I’m Mexican. My mom’s side of the family is Cuban, very liberal. We’ve always talked about sex and things like that. And yeah, I didn’t really have a hard time in that realm. I also became non monogamous in Brooklyn, which is… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…the epicenter for exploration.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Fernanda Fabian: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The epicenter, exactly, exactly. And have always moved in very liberal circles. Again, the Burning Man community. So I have personally not faced much judgment with close people. However, on social media, I sometimes, especially on TikTok, for some reason on Instagram, I don’t get that much hate, but on TikTok I’ve even had people like recording videos criticizing what I’m doing, especially because… My partner is monogamous and people make an assumption that I’m taking advantage of him. And there’s a lot of layers of feeling like what I’m doing is unethical or something along those lines. I don’t I don’ feel any shame around it, however We’re not fully open. As I mentioned, my partner comes from a religious family. And I understand that their views of marriage and sex are very, very different from mine. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So what has been difficult for me has been to have to hide. Obviously, now this is my career, right? So I often have to hid a little bit what I’m doing as to not damage those relationships with those people that I really care for. And they care for me a lot. But I know that if they knew. Again, especially because their family member, my partner is monogamous, they would just completely change the way they see me and it would just create a lot of issues which I’m trying to avoid. So that’s been difficult. However, what you said is interesting about the gay community being almost judgmental the other way around, of like, why aren’t you being… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m making that up, Manuel or is that true? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Manuel Betancourt: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, no, I it is a kind of it becomes like a lose lose situation because like if you’re on the one end, they’re like, oh, then you’re clearly just buying into this heteronormative patriarchal traditional assimilationist kind of strategy. And how dare you leave the rest of us radicals behind? Or on the other end, like, you know, you’re breaking all the institutions apart. So how dare you then not leave anything, is nothing sacred? I think for me, what I’ve always come down to is that so long as it’s a choice and it’s a conscious choice that you’re making, like monogamy is not, it’s not a dirty word. I think it’s, oh yeah, to me it’s only, it only becomes badly weaponized when it’s understood to be the default, the norm and therefore the thing that we should all aspire to. So long as we’re all consenting adults and we’re understanding, like the three of us have very different configurations, but all of them seem to be rooted in understanding what each of us want out of the relationship and having open conversations with those we’re with. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m curious, are there folks in your family, folks who you are intimately tied to that do or do not know about your relationship dynamic?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Manuel Betancourt: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So my entire, I think my entire extended family knows about my relationship. So they know that I’m part of a throuple. And so that’s the extent of what they know about my relationships. I don’t think any of them know about the sort of consensual non-monogamy openness. It’s in my book, but the joy about writing in a language that most of your family does not speak regularly, because all my family is in Columbia. Is that there was a kind of, for my entire adult life, I’ve sort of always bisected my kind of identities with like gayness and queerness exist in English and then families lives or exist in Spanish. It’s this weird associating mechanism but I’ve, sort of, have needed to survive and grapple with and sort of it has helped me. But it is also. Helped keep those boundaries very separate. But like my mom has met my, my boyfriends, we spent holidays together with my brother and siblings and sort of they understand that like that the three of us are a unit. It did feel like a second coming out, like when I had to explain it, when I have to like tell my mom but she was kind of fantastic about it.Uh, every time she’s like, how are the boys doing? What, like she’s very much involved in that aspect of it, Less so in the like We all go to play parties or I have like anonymous sex during the day. But that’s a nice boundary that I feel comfortable maintaining with my family.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fernanda Fabian: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, right. Because one thing is to be open about the arrangement. Another thing is for them to read your book, or for example, in my case to listen to my podcast. And I have a similar situation where my mom’s side of the family doesn’t speak English. So that well, my mom and a couple of members, so that that helps. And recently, she was like, Oh, I think I can figure out how to translate your podcast. And I’m like, No, no, no. Please do not do that. Let’s keep that separate. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Let’s put it to the people who do know in your life, Fernanda, is there a misconception they have that you had to clear up right away to make sure that they understood you fully and the choices you made fully. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fernanda Fabian: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, my mom, as open as she has been, had a lot of questions and concerns at first. Her immediate thought was, she doesn’t love Seth or Seth doesn’t love her. Also, she, she adores Seth. And, you know, they have this really cute relationship because Seth doesn’t speak much Spanish either, but they somehow they communicate, they love each other. It’s wonderful. Um, and she was really afraid that I would be, uh, screwing our relationship up because I was dating other people. So it took a few months and even today, sometimes if I’m talking to my mom about another partner of mine, which I do sometimes, and, she knows that said this around, she’ll be like, shh, shhh, Fernanda, shut up. And I’m like, mom, first of all, we’re speaking Spanish. Second of all said knows about this. There’s, there’s nothing, there is nothing to hide. So there’s still that like impulse. But she’s actually come around and she’s seen how beautiful of a relationship set and I have, and she has become a little bit like of an advocate for at least considering the option, which I find amazing given that a lot of people do not have that relationship with their moms. But what I tell people is, if you really feel like there won’t be an open line of communication and it will just cause judgment and a separation with a family member you still want to be close to, then no need to disclose it. But if you think that there might be a little bit of openness, you might be surprised. You just need to kind of introduce it bit by bit and explain the reasons why this is important to you, why you do this. And you might find that people are more open to it than you thought. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I want to end with this one question, starting with you Fernanda. What is one thing that you’ve learned about yourself in pursuing non-monogamy? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fernanda Fabian: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I think I have already shared a little bit about this, but that I thrive through connection and through connecting with other people and that that for me is a way of growing personally. So as much as I’m working on finding validation within myself, being my best friend and like working on that relationship with myself too, when I interact with new partners and new people, they do bring out new parts of myself that I wasn’t. Really aware of. So I think, yeah, for me it has to do with how I see life and how connection is kind of the vehicle that I’m taking to grow as a person and as an individual. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Manuel Betancourt: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have a book to recommend to you for now because my entire book is all about like strangers allow ourselves to see ourselves differently, right, like they give us insights into ourselves that we didn’t know we had. I think the thing that I’ve learned the most about well-exploring non-monogamy and the thing I’ve taught myself is that my libido and my desires are not challenges I think for the longest time I constantly thought of myself as needing to reign in my desires, reigning my libido, like just really corral it into something that is understandable, that is legible, that is controllable, that I can handle and show other people. And I think the thing that I’ve not realized, like I’ve actually worked hard to sort of rewire is that acting on them and acting on them ethically and honestly a\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">nd with the support and encouragement of my Partners.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> There’s kind of beauty in them. There is a kind of beauty in being able to sort of follow your bliss and your desire. And to really let that be a really fun way of interacting with the world and with other people and with strangers and with known people and that it’s not about yeah, controlling. I think for the for the longest time, I felt like my desires needed to be sort of caged and domesticated. And instead of just like not let them run wild, but actually allowing myself to follow through them and see where they lead me. And they’ve led into a lot of really fun different places. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To use the language from the intro, just like break free, like Ariana Grande ourselves out of this like prison and just do what we feel is right. Well, I wanna thank each of you for such a lovely informative conversation, especially again, coming from my particular POV, it’s so wonderful to hear other people, especially other Latinos talk about relationships, talk about love and sex, and really get me to change some of these long-held beliefs I had. So I really appreciate your time and you being here with us today. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fernanda Fabian: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you Xorge.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Manuel Betancourt: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I do want to remind our listeners that you can follow our guests Fernanda has a podcast the poly curious podcast Manuel has a couple books including hello stranger Which is now available all of that information will be in our show notes and also where you can find each of them on social Media and if want to send us an email just email us at HYP at kqed.org Especially if you wanna share your non monogamy experiences, but until then, hasta luego. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hyphenación is a KQED Studios Production. It is produced by Ana De Almeida Amaral, Alex Tran, and me, Xorje Olivares. Chris Hambrick is our editor. Mixing and mastering by Christopher Beale. Jen Chien is executive producer and KQED’s director of podcasts. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. Thank you to Maha Sanad for her audience engagement support and to podcast operations intern Alana Walker. Thanks to podcast operations manager Katie Sprenger, Video Operations manager Vivian Morales, and our chief content officer Holly Kernan. Special thanks to Megan Tan, Martina Castro, and Paulina Velasco for their development support. Okay mi gente, cuídense.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cem>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Host Xorje Olivares has never been one for sharing, especially when it comes to a lover. This week on Hyphenación, Xorje speaks with Fernanda Fabian and Manuel Betancourt, two seasoned practitioners of non-monogamy, to talk about breaking free from monogamy, their relationships with their Latino parents, and following desires.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC2996639416&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003c/h2>\n\u003ch2>Watch this episode on YouTube\u003c/h2>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/bQx1tKELmuI'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/bQx1tKELmuI'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cb>Guests\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Fernanda Fabian (\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/3TpsmC4gNO618CZe0Ou1Fr?si=2a537b3e4c744acb\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Polycurious Podcast\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://url.us.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/tWXsCwpkPvsAnVxWsVf7cJ7v8X?domain=polycurious.com\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Website\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">,\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://url.us.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/3ZY7CxklQwf9jRv3IvhZcy77Zp?domain=instagram.com\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Instagram\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://url.us.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/4QMRCyPmRxs032oRhQiJcxH2z9?domain=tiktok.com\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tiktok\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://url.us.m.mimecastprotect.com/s/ujVBCzpn0ysxzwqAiKslc9YehK?domain=patreon.com\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Patreon\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">)\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Manuel Betancourt (\u003ca href=\"https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/757080/hello-stranger-by-manuel-betancourt/\">\u003ci>Hello Stranger\u003c/i>\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/bmanuel/?hl=en\">Instagram\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://mbetancourtcom.wordpress.com/\">Website\u003c/a>)\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the series or have an idea to share? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:hyp@kqed.org\">hyp@kqed.org\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003chr>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know we’re only just now starting to get to know each other, but there’s something about me you have to know. And believe me, once I tell you, you’re probably going to look at me in a completely different light. Which is a risk I’m willing to take if it means standing in my truth. Ok. Here it goes: I – Xorje Andrés Olivares Urbina – am an aggressive monogamist. I know, right? Y con este cuerpazo? I should be sharing it with everyone who has a thing for chaparritos like me!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But alas, I’ve never been one for sharing…at least not when it comes to my romantic partners. In fact, when I was dating, it was one of the first few questions I would ask: it was like “what do you do for work? Any siblings? What are your concrete thoughts on open relationships and are you ok having sex with me and just me?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay it was never that forward as that, but I was pretty clear upfront with any potential suitor that – I was looking for an exclusive partner. For me, that meant having them as my only love interest, and I theirs. And I want to make sure I specify “love interest” because I absolutely understand that a single person cannot fulfill our every need as adults. That’s what friends, family, coworkers, hobbies are for and I’m not one of those tóxicas. Or am I? But seriously, am I being too rigid in my thinking on this? Should we ALL be breaking free from the prison of monogamy? I’m Xorje Olivares, and today I’m asking the question: Are you comfortable sharing your partner with another lover?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Hyphenación – where conversation and cultura meet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I’ve been really looking forward to today’s conversation because it is such a sexy topic, I felt like we needed to start with a sexy question. And so I’m gonna ask my two guests who are joining me today what they find sexy in another person. Because for me, it is tattoos. If somebody walks in with tattoos right now and like a bonus if they got an ear pierced, then I am just putty in their hands. And yes, do with that imagery what you will. I’m excited to first welcome to the program Fernanda Fabian, who is a relationship coach and the host of the Polycurious podcast, where she facilitates conversations about non-monogamy. Fernanda, thank you so much for joining us today. And I want to ask you, what do you find sexy in another person? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fernanda Fabian:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I love that question. And you know, my answer might surprise you a little bit because I’m not sure everyone feels that way. But one thing that I always find attractive is when someone says that they’re going to therapy. Because that means that they are actually working on themselves. They’re actually introspective. Hopefully that means they might be better communicating or more aware of their issues. And to me, as much as I do care about physical appearance, sometimes just someone who’s working on their stuff and is able to communicate is just a turn-on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Love that. Making me think differently about this whole topic. Well, thank you so much for joining us and for providing that answer.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Also excited to welcome Manuel Betancourt, who is a culture writer and the author of the new book, Hello Stranger, which talks about the seductive potential of what it means to be with strangers. Manuel, what is something you find sexy in another person? Whether it is a physical trait, personality trait… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Manuel Betancourt: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I was struggling. I was like, do I go with the physical trade? I love me some arms. So a nice bicep is sort of where-that’s my sweet spot. But for me, the thing that really grabs me is confidence. Like if someone can walk into a room and sort of lock eyes with me, and just that’s what turns me into putty. That’s what sort of makes me melt. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I’m excited for us to have this chat. And I want us to get into this, especially starting with you Fernanda, about if you could tell us about what your relationship dynamics are and how you started this journey towards what you talk about in your podcast, Polycurious. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fernanda Fabian: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, of course. So I actually have a very interesting dynamic, which I like to talk about, because I believe that other people might want to consider it. In my case, I am non-monogamous. I’m playing with calling myself poly at this point, because I recently started seeing someone that I’m calling my partner, but that had never happened before. However, my primary partner, who I have been with for almost seven years, is monogamous. So as you can imagine, that’s a very rare situation, rare dynamic, where one person is monogamous and the other person is non-monogamous, especially if the non-monogamous person is the woman. So I’m not an advocate for monogamy or non-monogamy. I just think that people should do whatever works for them. And for me and my partner, that is what works. So that’s why I decided to start the podcast, become a coach and do this work to show other people that it’s possible to do it in a healthy way.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nice. Manuel, I like the phrasing that Fernanda used about just what works for you. What currently works for you? What is your relationship dynamic currently?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Manuel Betancourt: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, my current relationship dynamic is, I’m in what people would normally call a throuple. And so there’s three of us, and I met them when they had been together for five years. And so we started sort of hanging out, and it soon was clear that the three of us were sort of operating as a unit, as a romantic unit. And so, we like to say that we’re sort of this closed romantic triangle, but it’s very porous sexually. So we sort of practice, it’s an open relationship. We practice consensual non-monogamy. We’re very open and honest about what we do and what we allow ourselves to do with other people, sometimes with each other, sometimes at different place spaces. And that’s sort of what works for us right now. And that came from after being years monogamous sort of marriage. And after I got divorced, I made a conscious choice of what I realized that I wanted, what I realized that what I was looking for and really wanted in a relationship was a kind of openness. And so I never set out to be like, okay, now I’m going to be part of a throuple or now I am going to be a part of poly relationship or polycule. It’s just, as soon as I open the floodgates in my mind to be, like, I’m gonna be open to any kind of relationship dynamic. That grows organically and that sort of fulfills me romantically, sexually, you know, spiritually in all these different ways, like I’m just going to follow that. And what happened was sort of this, um, the throuple and we’re now going on. It’s going to be almost three years now. And Thats where I’m at right now.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I do want to ask Manuel, if there was any hesitation on your part to joining some relationship dynamic. They already knew how to talk to each other. They already know how to fight with one another. They already how to, like, what their body language was with one another. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Manuel Betancourt: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh,\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">absolutely. And in this, the thing that helped me was that I was in therapy. The thing that I talked about during those first few weeks in therapy was like, I don’t know if I can do this. And like, I needed someone to help me, guide me through and to sort of feel, because it felt like I wasn’t just joining a relationship. It was like I was joining a kind of partnership. They had been together for a while, they lived together, they had this like life together. Like, calibrating that took like a year, just sort of trying to find our bearings so that we would all feel comfortable. Because there was also hesitation on their part, Like they were, this was something that was established and they were also not looking for a third, they were not looking to sort of change. Their dynamic, a lot of stuff they had sort of down pat. And I then became the thing that illuminated a lot of stuff about their relationship and sort of the thing that my therapist at the time kept saying was like, you know, if you found yourself in this situation it’s because there was room for you in the relationship and that they’re making room for that being sort of a very active choice that the three of us were making. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I feel like a lot of this comes down to communication. Each of you have talked a little bit about that. And I want to go to you Fernanda and ask about what that communication looked like with your partner where you’ve brought up this notion of maybe we should try something a little different.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fernanda Fabian: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, of course, I actually brought it up the second day we met, \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, okay,\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fernanda Fabian: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, by the time I met Seth, we actually met at Burning Man. So I think that also contributed to us being like super open and honest from the beginning. So, uh, we were both coming from a very like open space and, you know, the second day, the second night we met, we already felt like this was something really special, sometimes that doesn’t last after Burning Man, but in our case it did. So we were just like putting everything on the table. At that point I had friends that were open. I wasn’t non-monogamous in a primary relationship but I was already having friends with benefits that knew about each other and I was already clear that that’s what I wanted. And when I brought it up, he said, you know, I’m open to it and, you know we’ll figure it out. And then about like a month after we met, he was actually living in San Francisco, I was living in New York, and we were visiting each other and at some point he was like, hey, do you want to be my girlfriend? Which I found adorable because I hadn’t been asked that since high school. But I was like really into him, like feeling like this was really right and I just said yes. And then about like 15 minutes later, I was like hold on one second, does this mean that I cannot have sex with other people. Is that what being a girlfriend means? And he was like, yes. And I was like okay, well, that’s fine. I can make that sacrifice. But I could do that because I knew from the beginning that he was open to it down the line. He was very clear. He said, right now I don’t feel ready for that, but I want to give you what you want. I don’t know if I can, but I will try. So let’s go on stages. He’s also an introvert, so he loves his alone time and he loves to stay home. I’m an extrovert. So for him, it’s not like he’s opposed to non-monogamy and obviously he has the option and I hope that one day he finds someone that he wants to explore with, but he just doesn’t feel the need. So, you know, it was a slow process. And at some points, I was like, Oh, can I just, can I do it? Can I just go on the date? Because he’d be like, Okay, you can, You know, you can go on a date with someone, but they, you know… It’s better if they have a partner as well, and it’s better if it’s someone that you knew before you met me, so it’s not as much of a threat. There were important steps, because they gave him the opportunity to get used to that. So obviously, the first time I went to a play party, the first time I went on a date, he was having a difficult time, but he honestly is amazing and never put that jealousy or that like discomfort on me. He did say, okay, I’m feeling a little bit like, I don’t want to be close to you when you come back from dates, for example, because I’m having a hard time. So then we agreed that when I’d come back from a date which like for me was the opposite. I was just like. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You want to tell him all the information! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Manuel Betancourt: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Laughter]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fernanda Fabian:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I was just like on cloud nine from meeting a new person. And then, you know, interestingly enough, that sexual energy, that new relationship energy, as people call it, actually comes back to my primary relationship. So I’d want to connect, you know, and even if we didn’t have sex, I want to like be close and cuddle. And he’d be like, okay, I need a little bit of more time to reconnect after you come back from a date. So we, it was a lot of trial and error. I always recommend people to do it that way, because if we had just started…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Gone off the deep end\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fernanda Fabian:\u003c/b> \u003cb> …\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">open right away. He might have had a lot of jealousy, insecurity, a lot of difficult emotions, and it would have been a lot more difficult to actually get where we wanted to go because there would have been a lots of missteps and then repair and all of that. Although some people argue that you should start open right away if that’s what you want, which I think if you have experience with non-monogamy, if you both have experiences with non monogamy that can also work potentially, but The way it worked for me was to. Go very slowly, reassess, talk about feelings, and move from there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just feel like it might be so hard I can see that like it takes those early conversations, it takes figuring out what the parameters are, figuring out what your boundaries are. And so Manuel was it easy once you started pursuing non- monogamy to be open and honest and transparent about your feelings of like That’s okay with me and that’s not okay with me.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Manuel Betancourt: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, it took a while. And the other part was, I was dealing with two people, two people who had gone through that process and had figured it out for themselves. So they knew what worked for one another, what parties they go to, what was allowed and what was not allowed. So by the time I came in, there was like no rules. They were very like, you can do whatever you want. A lot of it was sexual. Like we don’t, romantic and dates, like those are not really things of the three of us partake or are interested. I think also because there’s three of us, so they’re like, there’s just enough, just a scheduling a date between the three of us is hard enough. Like, trying just to like… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m free Thursday at 3, but then yeah, I don’t quite know where that fits in.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Manuel Betancourt: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, but trying to figure out what I was comfortable with, that maybe the two of them had figured out, worked for them, and then I would be like, oh, actually, like, I get pangs of jealousy, but I don’t want to disrupt what the two them had achieved. So it did took a little bit of a while. It was a little bit of trial and error and I think the thing I kept coming back to is like, it’s okay to be jealous. It’s not okay to make that jealousy that someone else’s problem, right? Like, I can have those feelings, I can have feelings of fear, of anxiety, of inadequacy, of jealousy, like, but learning to not lead with those and learning not to act on those instinctively. Took a while– What does this mean? Is it because I’m insecure? Is it because I need more cuddling? Is it because I need more reassurance? Is it because I felt like you were choosing someone else over me? Uh and it took a while to sort of learn the language. I feel like it still happens to us like sometimes none of this is perfect. Uh none of it is like you you know you don’t get like a diploma and say now, you’re great at being poly. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughter]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Manuel Betancourt: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, it’s sort of every single time is something different. And I have gotten better at it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[SPONSOR MESSAGE]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I wanna share a quick story. My partner and I just recently got engaged and it was a fun little like, oh my God, we did it moment. But it was funny because at least two different people after we announced our engagement came up to us and asked us if this was now the moment we were gonna try to be in an open relationship. And I thought it was interesting because it kind of came almost as soon as they said, congratulations. I was like, oh, okay, now you’re making me think at a time where I didn’t know we were going to. Confronted with this question. But I will say that especially as a queer person, as a cisgender gay man, I feel like I receive a lot of judgment because of my decision to be monogamous and because I am pursuing something that seems to feel a bit more heteronormative and a bit more traditional. But I do want to focus in on this issue of judgment. And starting with you Fernanda about having to navigate, feeling judged, not just by family, whoever else you encounter, but by people you feel very close with and wanna feel like you have a deep connection to. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fernanda Fabian: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, of course. Well, I have to be honest. I’ve been very, very lucky. I grew up in a very liberal family, even though we grew up in Mexico. I’m Mexican. My mom’s side of the family is Cuban, very liberal. We’ve always talked about sex and things like that. And yeah, I didn’t really have a hard time in that realm. I also became non monogamous in Brooklyn, which is… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…the epicenter for exploration.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Fernanda Fabian: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The epicenter, exactly, exactly. And have always moved in very liberal circles. Again, the Burning Man community. So I have personally not faced much judgment with close people. However, on social media, I sometimes, especially on TikTok, for some reason on Instagram, I don’t get that much hate, but on TikTok I’ve even had people like recording videos criticizing what I’m doing, especially because… My partner is monogamous and people make an assumption that I’m taking advantage of him. And there’s a lot of layers of feeling like what I’m doing is unethical or something along those lines. I don’t I don’ feel any shame around it, however We’re not fully open. As I mentioned, my partner comes from a religious family. And I understand that their views of marriage and sex are very, very different from mine. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So what has been difficult for me has been to have to hide. Obviously, now this is my career, right? So I often have to hid a little bit what I’m doing as to not damage those relationships with those people that I really care for. And they care for me a lot. But I know that if they knew. Again, especially because their family member, my partner is monogamous, they would just completely change the way they see me and it would just create a lot of issues which I’m trying to avoid. So that’s been difficult. However, what you said is interesting about the gay community being almost judgmental the other way around, of like, why aren’t you being… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m making that up, Manuel or is that true? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Manuel Betancourt: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, no, I it is a kind of it becomes like a lose lose situation because like if you’re on the one end, they’re like, oh, then you’re clearly just buying into this heteronormative patriarchal traditional assimilationist kind of strategy. And how dare you leave the rest of us radicals behind? Or on the other end, like, you know, you’re breaking all the institutions apart. So how dare you then not leave anything, is nothing sacred? I think for me, what I’ve always come down to is that so long as it’s a choice and it’s a conscious choice that you’re making, like monogamy is not, it’s not a dirty word. I think it’s, oh yeah, to me it’s only, it only becomes badly weaponized when it’s understood to be the default, the norm and therefore the thing that we should all aspire to. So long as we’re all consenting adults and we’re understanding, like the three of us have very different configurations, but all of them seem to be rooted in understanding what each of us want out of the relationship and having open conversations with those we’re with. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m curious, are there folks in your family, folks who you are intimately tied to that do or do not know about your relationship dynamic?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Manuel Betancourt: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So my entire, I think my entire extended family knows about my relationship. So they know that I’m part of a throuple. And so that’s the extent of what they know about my relationships. I don’t think any of them know about the sort of consensual non-monogamy openness. It’s in my book, but the joy about writing in a language that most of your family does not speak regularly, because all my family is in Columbia. Is that there was a kind of, for my entire adult life, I’ve sort of always bisected my kind of identities with like gayness and queerness exist in English and then families lives or exist in Spanish. It’s this weird associating mechanism but I’ve, sort of, have needed to survive and grapple with and sort of it has helped me. But it is also. Helped keep those boundaries very separate. But like my mom has met my, my boyfriends, we spent holidays together with my brother and siblings and sort of they understand that like that the three of us are a unit. It did feel like a second coming out, like when I had to explain it, when I have to like tell my mom but she was kind of fantastic about it.Uh, every time she’s like, how are the boys doing? What, like she’s very much involved in that aspect of it, Less so in the like We all go to play parties or I have like anonymous sex during the day. But that’s a nice boundary that I feel comfortable maintaining with my family.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fernanda Fabian: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, right. Because one thing is to be open about the arrangement. Another thing is for them to read your book, or for example, in my case to listen to my podcast. And I have a similar situation where my mom’s side of the family doesn’t speak English. So that well, my mom and a couple of members, so that that helps. And recently, she was like, Oh, I think I can figure out how to translate your podcast. And I’m like, No, no, no. Please do not do that. Let’s keep that separate. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Let’s put it to the people who do know in your life, Fernanda, is there a misconception they have that you had to clear up right away to make sure that they understood you fully and the choices you made fully. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fernanda Fabian: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, my mom, as open as she has been, had a lot of questions and concerns at first. Her immediate thought was, she doesn’t love Seth or Seth doesn’t love her. Also, she, she adores Seth. And, you know, they have this really cute relationship because Seth doesn’t speak much Spanish either, but they somehow they communicate, they love each other. It’s wonderful. Um, and she was really afraid that I would be, uh, screwing our relationship up because I was dating other people. So it took a few months and even today, sometimes if I’m talking to my mom about another partner of mine, which I do sometimes, and, she knows that said this around, she’ll be like, shh, shhh, Fernanda, shut up. And I’m like, mom, first of all, we’re speaking Spanish. Second of all said knows about this. There’s, there’s nothing, there is nothing to hide. So there’s still that like impulse. But she’s actually come around and she’s seen how beautiful of a relationship set and I have, and she has become a little bit like of an advocate for at least considering the option, which I find amazing given that a lot of people do not have that relationship with their moms. But what I tell people is, if you really feel like there won’t be an open line of communication and it will just cause judgment and a separation with a family member you still want to be close to, then no need to disclose it. But if you think that there might be a little bit of openness, you might be surprised. You just need to kind of introduce it bit by bit and explain the reasons why this is important to you, why you do this. And you might find that people are more open to it than you thought. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I want to end with this one question, starting with you Fernanda. What is one thing that you’ve learned about yourself in pursuing non-monogamy? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fernanda Fabian: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I think I have already shared a little bit about this, but that I thrive through connection and through connecting with other people and that that for me is a way of growing personally. So as much as I’m working on finding validation within myself, being my best friend and like working on that relationship with myself too, when I interact with new partners and new people, they do bring out new parts of myself that I wasn’t. Really aware of. So I think, yeah, for me it has to do with how I see life and how connection is kind of the vehicle that I’m taking to grow as a person and as an individual. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Manuel Betancourt: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have a book to recommend to you for now because my entire book is all about like strangers allow ourselves to see ourselves differently, right, like they give us insights into ourselves that we didn’t know we had. I think the thing that I’ve learned the most about well-exploring non-monogamy and the thing I’ve taught myself is that my libido and my desires are not challenges I think for the longest time I constantly thought of myself as needing to reign in my desires, reigning my libido, like just really corral it into something that is understandable, that is legible, that is controllable, that I can handle and show other people. And I think the thing that I’ve not realized, like I’ve actually worked hard to sort of rewire is that acting on them and acting on them ethically and honestly a\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">nd with the support and encouragement of my Partners.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> There’s kind of beauty in them. There is a kind of beauty in being able to sort of follow your bliss and your desire. And to really let that be a really fun way of interacting with the world and with other people and with strangers and with known people and that it’s not about yeah, controlling. I think for the for the longest time, I felt like my desires needed to be sort of caged and domesticated. And instead of just like not let them run wild, but actually allowing myself to follow through them and see where they lead me. And they’ve led into a lot of really fun different places. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To use the language from the intro, just like break free, like Ariana Grande ourselves out of this like prison and just do what we feel is right. Well, I wanna thank each of you for such a lovely informative conversation, especially again, coming from my particular POV, it’s so wonderful to hear other people, especially other Latinos talk about relationships, talk about love and sex, and really get me to change some of these long-held beliefs I had. So I really appreciate your time and you being here with us today. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fernanda Fabian: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you Xorge.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Manuel Betancourt: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I do want to remind our listeners that you can follow our guests Fernanda has a podcast the poly curious podcast Manuel has a couple books including hello stranger Which is now available all of that information will be in our show notes and also where you can find each of them on social Media and if want to send us an email just email us at HYP at kqed.org Especially if you wanna share your non monogamy experiences, but until then, hasta luego. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hyphenación is a KQED Studios Production. It is produced by Ana De Almeida Amaral, Alex Tran, and me, Xorje Olivares. Chris Hambrick is our editor. Mixing and mastering by Christopher Beale. Jen Chien is executive producer and KQED’s director of podcasts. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. Thank you to Maha Sanad for her audience engagement support and to podcast operations intern Alana Walker. Thanks to podcast operations manager Katie Sprenger, Video Operations manager Vivian Morales, and our chief content officer Holly Kernan. Special thanks to Megan Tan, Martina Castro, and Paulina Velasco for their development support. Okay mi gente, cuídense.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp data-encore-id=\"text\" data-slate-node=\"element\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cem>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"encore-text encore-text-body-medium\" data-encore-id=\"text\" data-slate-node=\"element\">\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">Documentation divides the Latino community in the U.S. between those whose existence in this country is permitted and those who are criminalized for their very presence. This line of legality has been drawn deeper and has changed quickly during the second Trump administration. In the face of this uncertainty, host Xorje Olivares speaks with authors Karla Cornejo Villavicencio (\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">\u003cem>The Undocumented Americans\u003c/em>\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">) and Javier Zamora (\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">\u003cem>Solito\u003c/em>\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\" data-slate-fragment=\"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\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">) to ask “What does citizenship mean, today?”\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-encore-id=\"text\" data-slate-node=\"element\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC4175855502&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Watch this episode on YouTube\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>https://youtu.be/tWwcVpxmuIc\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"encore-text encore-text-body-medium\" data-encore-id=\"text\" data-slate-node=\"element\">\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">\u003cstrong>Guests\u003c/strong>\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">:\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"encore-text encore-text-body-medium\" data-encore-id=\"text\" data-slate-node=\"element\">\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">Karla Cornejo Villavicencio (\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003ca class=\"Link-sc-k8gsk-0 edjgOj sc-kpDqfm ejcycC\" href=\"https://www.instagram.com/karlarrriot/?hl=en\" data-slate-node=\"element\" data-slate-inline=\"true\" data-encore-id=\"textLink\">\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">\u003cu>Instagram\u003c/u>\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">, \u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003ca class=\"Link-sc-k8gsk-0 edjgOj sc-kpDqfm ejcycC\" href=\"https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/558229/the-undocumented-americans-by-karla-cornejo-villavicencio/\" data-slate-node=\"element\" data-slate-inline=\"true\" data-encore-id=\"textLink\">\u003cem>\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">\u003cu>The Undocumented Americans\u003c/u>\u003c/span>\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">)\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"encore-text encore-text-body-medium\" data-encore-id=\"text\" data-slate-node=\"element\">\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">Javier Zamora \u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003ca class=\"Link-sc-k8gsk-0 edjgOj sc-kpDqfm ejcycC\" href=\"https://www.instagram.com/jzsalvipoet/?hl=en\" data-slate-node=\"element\" data-slate-inline=\"true\" data-encore-id=\"textLink\">\u003c/a>\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">\u003cu>(\u003c/u>\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003ca class=\"Link-sc-k8gsk-0 edjgOj sc-kpDqfm ejcycC\" href=\"https://www.instagram.com/jzsalvipoet/?hl=en\" data-slate-node=\"element\" data-slate-inline=\"true\" data-encore-id=\"textLink\">\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">\u003cu>Instagram\u003c/u>\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">, \u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003cem>\u003ca class=\"Link-sc-k8gsk-0 edjgOj sc-kpDqfm ejcycC\" href=\"https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/705626/solito-a-read-with-jenna-pick-by-javier-zamora/\" data-slate-node=\"element\" data-slate-inline=\"true\" data-encore-id=\"textLink\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">\u003cu>Solito\u003c/u>\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/em>\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">)\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-encore-id=\"text\" data-slate-node=\"element\">Want to give us feedback on the series or have an idea to share? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:hyp@kqed.org\">hyp@kqed.org\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-encore-id=\"text\" data-slate-node=\"element\">[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003chr>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares, Host\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: You know, I’ve probably been asked more than 1,000 times if I’m a U.S. citizen, and that’s not even an exaggeration. Growing up in a town along the U.S.-Mexico border, I constantly had to verify my documentation status and citizenship to U.S. Customs and Border Patrol agents. And to be clear, this wasn’t even when we were crossing the border. We were just going outside city limits, still within the state. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’d go a little something like this. My family and I would drive to an inspection point where an armed, uniformed officer would approach the car window. Upon lowering it, they’d promptly ask, “‘You a citizen?’ To which we’d each respond, “‘Yes, U.S. citizen.'” And that was it. Unless my late Tio was traveling with us. Because he was a permanent resident, not a U.S. Citizen, he’d quietly hand over his green card and await further questions, which he never really got. But I’m talking about more than 10 years ago. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because this process felt so normalized to us, I never thought to ask him how he felt during those interactions. I know for me, as a third generation Texan born into citizenship, I never felt worried during these exchanges, which I know is a huge privilege. But I did learn early on that asking for someone’s documentation is a high-stakes question and the gun at the officer’s hip, the giant fence just minutes away from my house, was proof of that somehow. Even though I was born, legit, less than two miles away from the Rio Grande, I’m on one side of a line, a line that the United States government has used to decide that my existence in this country is permitted, while others are criminalized. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, as you may have heard, the undocumented community has been placed at the center of some very aggressive immigration policies right now. There are promises to deport millions of undocumented people and to end birthright citizenship, which is a constitutional protection. And on top of that, the current administration is threatening deportation against U.S. citizens. So at this moment, the line of criminality is being drawn deeper and is changing very quickly. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Xorge Olivares, and I wanna ask this question. What does the idea of citizenship even mean today? This is Hyphenation, where conversation and cultura meet.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So joining me today to have this conversation are two people who have written extensively about the issue of documentation and citizenship. I wanna ask each of them if there is a written work, a piece of written work that they feel is very important for us to be reading right now. So first, excited to welcome to the program Carla Cornejo via Vicentio. She’s the author of the book, The Undocumented Americans, which chronicles the experiences of many undocumented people in this country. So Karla, thank you so much for joining us today. Uh, and I want to ask if you have a recommendation for listeners. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Karla Cornejo Villavicencio: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hello, thanks for having me. I would recommend Pedro Le Mebel’s My Tender Matador or in Spanish, it’s Tengo Miedo Torero. It’s a Chilean novel set during the Pinochet years and it’s about like an aging drag queen and trans woman who just survives those years with incredible imagination and. glamor and melodrama and I found it very inspiring and it’s pretty slim too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nice. Thank you for sharing that. Also, I love a queer story. I will always add queer stories to my repertoire of books. Also excited to welcome to the program Javier Zamora, who is best known for his 2022 memoir, Solito, which chronicled his own experience as an unaccompanied minor going from El Salvador to the United States. Javier, thank you so much for joining us today and asking if you also have a recommendation for a piece of written work that we should be reading. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Javier Zamora: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I do. I think the unexpected perk of publishing a book is getting books in advance. And there’s this forthcoming one by Daisy Hernandez called Citizenship, a Story. And the subtitle is Notes on Origin, Familias, and Who We Are. And it’s going to come out in early 2026. and I genuinely think everybody should read it because she talks directly about this idea, which is an idea about citizenship, and countries, and race, and sexuality, like all these things that are affecting us today.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, thank you each for those suggestions. And for again, joining me today, I, I like that you’re getting at exactly what we’re hoping to talk about during this episode, which is the idea of citizenship. Yes, there is the, by the books, understanding of what citizenship means, especially here in the United States, but it also is an idea in the sense of being documented is also an idea. But I want to ask, starting with you Javier, this notion of documentation. And when you became fully aware that you were undocumented, or that the United State’s government viewed you as such. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Javier Zamora: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know what? I had no idea. You know, I was just a kid. Like I didn’t, my nine year old brain didn’t understand why we didn’t come on a plane per se. I just thought that yes we didn’t get a visa but there was no understanding of borders, passports and legality. But I don’t think I truly understood. or it began to hit, that I was different, completely different, until 9-11 happened. Around that time, my parents were hoping that because they had fled a war-torn area and they had applied to this thing called Nakata and political asylum, my dad was one of immigrants and I think could be the man. that he was very sure that the green card was gonna arrive at the mailbox and he didn’t hire a lawyer. And it’s by sheer bad luck that our appointment happened the first week of October of 2001. And so then my first instances of understanding that, oh, sh-t, like, we have to be afraid, is that we had… a huge break, because when you interview, you’re always down to just one person. And it’s usually for us, it has always been a white man who has to like validate whether your story and your testimony is true. And he thought that our story wasn’t true. But he did, instead of directly sending us to deportation, he did allow us to go seek a lawyer immediately. And so I’m 11 years old and I remember running through downtown to the financial district of San Francisco, looking for an immigration lawyer that would help us stay. We were under deportation proceedings, but somehow we stayed. And again, you know, I was 11 and it wasn’t until I got to college that I would, that I completely began to like read and understand what my family’s legal story was. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you for sharing that experience. I want to ask you, Karla, if you remember growing up just how you had to navigate this status that had been placed upon you by the government and by people who didn’t know where you were coming from, where your family was coming from. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Karla Cornejo Villavicencio: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I would equate being undocumented with feeling perpetually unsafe. It’s not necessarily the same thing as feeling always afraid, but you’re certainly always unsafe, you’re always precarious. And I knew that, just as I knew that as a girl, like I could be abused by a man at any time, as an undocumented girl, I felt like the state could do anything to me at any times as well. So it was, it was scary growing up. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I, I think this, this issue of safety is what most people forget when we have this much larger conversation about immigration is that there is an element of feeling unsafe that folks are trying, whether in their country of origin, even here in the States that they’re trying to relieve themselves of. Part of the thing that I guess you learn early on, even when you are not undocumented, I’ll say is I understood this issue or this notion of papeles and that documentation needed to exist. And so I’m curious, Javier, if this just the language of papeleis resonates with you or means something with you and if it did at a very early age.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Javier Zamora: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, that word citizenship, I think I learned in school. You know the, the first instance was my parents, you know, when I mentioned, oh, the green card is going to come. He didn’t even say the word green card. Los papeles van a llegar, nos van a mandar los papeles. So like this idea of a piece of paper. It’s not like, to me, I think as a nine year old, you know, learning English and I knew I was different and I knew that I couldn’t tell my friends because my parents told me not to tell anybody how I had gotten to this country. By \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">10,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> 5th, 6th grade, I also learned a story to tell people that I had been born at the local hospital. But all these things, I still didn’t understand these ideas of citizenship. What I did understand was that I didn’t have a piece of paper. And usually as a nine, 10 year old, that piece of paper with a birth certificate that didn’t say that I had been born in this country\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m curious, kind of similar to what Javier just mentioned. Did you create certain stories or narratives? Like to protect yourself, just so that way you knew that nobody would be able to figure something out that could then be used against you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Karla Cornejo Villavicencio: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sure, I mean, that’s when I started my campaign of personal misinformation. I don’t really give people access to myself. And that is obviously something that I learned. I’m not, I don’t deceive, but I also do not feel like the world is entitled to my interiority. And it’s the one thing that I’ve had that has belonged to me, has just been my mind. And so I’m very protective of it. And I think growing up, I learned how to have conversations where I learned to navigate social situations while staying safe, right? And some of that involves knowing when to be invisible and knowing when to stand out a little bit more, learning how to like a pretty intuitive understanding of that. And I mean, I guess that’s part of the story. It was that I was just Um, like an elusive chanteuse. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Javier Zamora: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And if I can hear, I think, you know, Karla’s book was published before I published anything in prose. And I did those were the parts of your book, Karla, that really spoke to me because I had never really read anybody like address this almost like superpower that we don’t want, but we learn in order to to remain safe. And that is exactly what it feels like. And I think that term that you just mentioned, I think it’s brilliant. And it helped me even as a 30-year-old man begin to learn something of how I had lived my life for 20 years up to that point. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Karla Cornejo Villavicencio: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s really sweet Javier, thank you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I want to pull into this, what Karla just said about the invisibility and the visibility dynamics. I’m curious, Javier, about your own navigation of invisibility, invisibility and when you realized you preferred one over another. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Javier Zamora: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For me, I think like most stories begins in the relationship that you have with your parents. For me my dad was absent for my first nine years of my life, but my mom was there, but then she left. But before she left, you know, she was a young teenage mom and I think she really pressed upon this at times, toxic relationship of you have to be the best. You have to be the valedictorian in order to get a free uniform and free books. And you are going to be my ticket out and our ticket out of poverty. And so I had to navigate this hyper visibility. I knew that I had to had to be an honor roll student in order to get ahead and also get out of poverty, but also to hide and be invisible at different times in order to stay in this country and not go back. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, one of the most, uh, kind of explicit moments of visibility is the fact that each of you have written something about your experiences. And I love that Javier, you mentioned how Karla’s book was kind of one of the, the first that you were able to see where this experience had been shared and I do want to ask, I’m going to ask both of you, but I want to start with you, Carla about the decision to write the book and to place yourself in such a vulnerable position by talking about a subject that most people would be quite scared to share.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Karla Cornejo Villavicencio: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The story that I tell is that I kind of fell into it because like Trump won the first time and I felt like there was like nothing really that felt representative to me of what being undocumented felt like. I think I desperately needed to witness what was happening in the first Trump administration. I think that I knew one of the things I learned just intuitively growing up is what it’s like to be a sort of a powerless being and the sort of the little safeties that you build up over the years, you know, like Javier said, a lot of that happens academically, happens through standing out academically, like melting into the background is something that, speaking for myself, was dangerous, would have condemned me to a sameness of sort of the world around me, and that was un-conceivable.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Javier Zamora: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, similarly to what Karla just said, you know, I think, again, there aren’t, there weren’t many complete or dignified representations of immigrants during the first Trump administration. It was like all these white liberals were like, oh my god, we never heard of undocumented people before when we’ve been here all along. Let me write some, you know, not thought out book about it. This happened all the time during the first administration. And somehow there were some glimmers, some diamonds there like Karla’s book, you knows, Antonio Arguez’s book. But then there was nothing. And so for me, I think I was also, you I was writing poetry. And I didn’t like what I had produced, my first book of poems came out in 2017 uh, write on as he took power the first time. And I felt that poetry couldn’t tell my whole story. But then there were a lot of these non-immigrants writing about immigrants. And it made me think, you know, talking about hyper visibility and like this valedictorian mentality, which I wasn’t a valedictorian, but I wanted to be. Um, but I could do it better. I can tell this story better than all these non-immigrants. And so I think that’s how I entered it. By that point, I also had the comfort of having a green card with my book of poems. I did not have a green card. I’m not a citizen yet. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Would I publish the book now? Yes. But I think our stories are necessary at the end of the day. If I have ever written something that jeopardizes my own legal status in this country, and if I get to be sent out because of anything that I said for any shirt that I’m wearing for saying free Palestine, then you know, honestly I don’t need this country. You know, why are we trying to? be such good quote unquote citizens in order for what you know the the U.S. is showing its colors and it always has.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I do want to take a break and when we come back, focus a little bit on the representation that you have shared with the world. We’re gonna get a short, little break.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>[SPONSOR MESSAGE]\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So we were talking about dignified representation and the fact that each of you saw a moment to be able to share your story. And Carla, when I introduced you, I mentioned again that your book was called the undocumented Americans. And I love the juxtaposition of those words, especially because I feel like in this national narrative in the political discourse, most people will say on one particular side of the aisle that those two words don’t necessarily go together. So I’m curious for you about the choice to title your book. undocumented Americans, where they can coexist as a hyphenation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Karla Cornejo Villavicencio:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, well, people can’t really take the term, the hemispheric term America. The publishers recommended undocumented America, which felt to me like very national geographic. And I was like, no. And then I wanted to be a little bit of a b-tch. And I want it to… I want it to be an homage to Henry James. So I want to call it The Undocumented Americans. And yeah, I mean, I don’t really feel too intimately with the name, but I do know that my Connecticut State Senator, Chris Murphy, got in trouble for saying something very nice, but very mild, you know? He was just something like, I feel sorry for our neighbors. are the undocumented Americans. And I think maybe he thought that that was the term we’re now using. But he got into so much trouble for it. He got so much hate. I know that because I have a Google alert on the undocumented American. I would get like, like right wing blogs being like, you know, all sorts of things. Poor Chris Murphy. So I think my book did have an impact in that they got Chris Murphy. into a lot of trouble for embracing the term. So people seem to have an issue with it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s interesting. I talk about the story of how, you know, I’m always having to say I’m a U S citizen when I’m back home, because it’s a border point, it’s an entry point. And we were always told to say U S citizens, not American citizen, because of this notion of you can be for many part of the Americas. What does that mean? So I think even just that specification of U S citizen was just ingrained in me at such an early age. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So,\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I want to focus on language because there is that notion of American and citizen. And so I want to start with you Javier about if either of those words, American or citizen resonate more with you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Javier Zamora: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">None – I’ve never considered myself either. You know, I’ve been, especially since the second administration Trump presidency began, I’ve really been looking at my own trajectory into obtaining papeles. You know, I finally get a green card, When? During the first Trump administration, I’ve had a green card for six years now. And I haven’t applied to become a citizen. And so for me it’s like now that I don’t have to look over my shoulder as much, or so I thought, now we’re learning in this presidency that, oh, a green card is also not as safe as you once thought. And now even facing this very real and almost urgent question for myself because I have to either apply to renew my green card or apply for citizenship next year. And so I’m like, why would I want to become? And what does that mean? What am I gaining? I am gaining a vote. You know, I’ve never voted in my life. Not in El Salvador, I’m not here. But is that, is it political citizenship? What am I gaining socially? I don’t think I will be gaining anything else that I don’t already have. So what is the difference? So I don’t know. I am with you. I’m still actively thinking about it every single day. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Karla, are you in a similar situation where you think about it every day, about whether you choose one of those words over another, American or citizen? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Karla Cornejo Villavicencio:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, my life is not filled with a lot of choices and that’s also not a choice I’m given. So, um, I’m fine with whatever people want to call me so long as it’s not a slur. I guess I do identify as an immigrant. I am naturalized as a citizen, but my brain developed under a certain set of circumstances, and I have a certain set of skills, like I said. So you don’t stop being an immigrant at any point in the legalization process. There is a process of like acculturation. There’s a process with assimilation or not. There’s like so many like things, there’s like code switching. There’s, there’s a certain set of experiences, I think that do unite immigrants but I don’t think that, I don’t think you really stop being an immigrant because it is sort of about being someone who doesn’t have a place that necessarily wants to claim them. And they are kind of looking out for themselves and looking for a place of safety and freedom and dignity. And then you’re willing to move for it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I do wanna focus and pivot us a little bit to the future. And I wanna ask in this moment, what do you think we’ve started to understand if anything at all or what is exposed now about the idea of American citizenship?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Javier Zamora:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think the empire is crumbling. We can see it. I think that settler colonial colony that the United States is showing its framework. And so for me, you know, the answer, because I do think that artists and writers should look at what is wrong with the world, but also dream of something to provide or gift for the future. For me, I think the answer is easy. The answer was here before white people showed up.It took me 30 plus years for me to even begin to identify as Native, as Indigenous, which I also am. And I think a lot of us in the Latina community are still carrying that shame of being part Black, part Indigenous, and we want to be proud of the small percentage of Spanish or European blood that we have. But that’s not the answer. That is the poison that we within us and we do. And so what is left for the future? For me, the future is looking back and imagining a Turtle Island or the Americas before any white man came here. You know, that is where the answers lie.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Karla, are you optimistic about what we can anticipate? Not necessarily in this current administration, but for the years to come, the next 20, 30 years. Will the conversation surrounding citizenship and people who are undocumented, do you think it’ll change or will be kind of what we’ve experienced for generations?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Karla Cornejo Villavicencio: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, I’m optimistic every day because that’s what keeps me going and that’s why keeps me alive and committing to the human social experiment. But I definitely don’t believe in a utopia ever materializing. I think human beings are bad and selfish and desirous of power in ways that cannot really be trusted. This is something that happened slowly and it happened over time. and it involved the participation and non-participation of a lot of people. And so I would say we need to have people who believe in democracy, even though it might be an illusion and it might be a myth and it may be a pyramid scheme. Like so many things are, like love or religion, like faith, these are things that become real because you all participate in a collective delusion about it. And so I think that people who care to participate in the delusion of democracy, when you could participate in the delusion of many other things, they should run for office. They should become judges. They should become lawyers. They should become doctors who work at free clinics. How do you use yourself and your safety if you are a person who is safe to contribute to the safety of people who have literally no rights. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I wanna thank both of you for sharing a lot of yourselves, a lot of your experiences and providing your insight on this very difficult topic, especially because of what’s happening politically in the world. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Javier Zamora:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thank you\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you wanna follow them and get any of their works, all you have to do is go to our show notes. We will show you how to follow them on social, buy their books, and support everything that they’ve got going on. So please do that. And also, if you want to send us any information about your own story or anything you wanna see represented on hyphenation, just email us at hyp at kqed.org. Thank you all for listening. Hasta luego. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Credits:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hyphenación is a KQED Studios Production. It is produced by Ana De Almeida Amaral, Alex Tran, and me, Xorje Olivares. Chris Hambrick is our editor. Mixing and mastering by Jim Benett and Christopher Beale. Jen Chien is executive producer and KQED’s director of podcasts. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. Special thanks to Megan Tan, Martina Castro, and Paulina Velasco for their development support. Thank you to Maha Sanad and Alana Walker for their audience engagement support, to podcast operations manager Katie Sprenger, Video Operations manager Vivian Morales, and our chief content officer Holly Kernan. Okay mi gente, cuídense.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"title": "Papeles: What Does U.S. Citizenship Mean Today? | KQED",
"description": "Documentation divides the Latino community in the U.S. between those whose existence in this country is permitted and those who are criminalized for their very presence. This line of legality has been drawn deeper and has changed quickly during the second Trump administration. In the face of this uncertainty, Host Xorje Olivares speaks with authors Karla Cornejo Villavicencio (The Undocumented Americans) and Javier Zamora (Solito) to ask “What does citizenship mean, today?”",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp data-encore-id=\"text\" data-slate-node=\"element\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003cem>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"encore-text encore-text-body-medium\" data-encore-id=\"text\" data-slate-node=\"element\">\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">Documentation divides the Latino community in the U.S. between those whose existence in this country is permitted and those who are criminalized for their very presence. This line of legality has been drawn deeper and has changed quickly during the second Trump administration. In the face of this uncertainty, host Xorje Olivares speaks with authors Karla Cornejo Villavicencio (\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">\u003cem>The Undocumented Americans\u003c/em>\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">) and Javier Zamora (\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">\u003cem>Solito\u003c/em>\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\" data-slate-fragment=\"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\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">) to ask “What does citizenship mean, today?”\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-encore-id=\"text\" data-slate-node=\"element\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC4175855502&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Watch this episode on YouTube\u003c/h2>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/tWwcVpxmuIc'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/tWwcVpxmuIc'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp class=\"encore-text encore-text-body-medium\" data-encore-id=\"text\" data-slate-node=\"element\">\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">\u003cstrong>Guests\u003c/strong>\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">:\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"encore-text encore-text-body-medium\" data-encore-id=\"text\" data-slate-node=\"element\">\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">Karla Cornejo Villavicencio (\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003ca class=\"Link-sc-k8gsk-0 edjgOj sc-kpDqfm ejcycC\" href=\"https://www.instagram.com/karlarrriot/?hl=en\" data-slate-node=\"element\" data-slate-inline=\"true\" data-encore-id=\"textLink\">\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">\u003cu>Instagram\u003c/u>\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">, \u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003ca class=\"Link-sc-k8gsk-0 edjgOj sc-kpDqfm ejcycC\" href=\"https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/558229/the-undocumented-americans-by-karla-cornejo-villavicencio/\" data-slate-node=\"element\" data-slate-inline=\"true\" data-encore-id=\"textLink\">\u003cem>\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">\u003cu>The Undocumented Americans\u003c/u>\u003c/span>\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">)\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"encore-text encore-text-body-medium\" data-encore-id=\"text\" data-slate-node=\"element\">\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">Javier Zamora \u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003ca class=\"Link-sc-k8gsk-0 edjgOj sc-kpDqfm ejcycC\" href=\"https://www.instagram.com/jzsalvipoet/?hl=en\" data-slate-node=\"element\" data-slate-inline=\"true\" data-encore-id=\"textLink\">\u003c/a>\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">\u003cu>(\u003c/u>\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003ca class=\"Link-sc-k8gsk-0 edjgOj sc-kpDqfm ejcycC\" href=\"https://www.instagram.com/jzsalvipoet/?hl=en\" data-slate-node=\"element\" data-slate-inline=\"true\" data-encore-id=\"textLink\">\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">\u003cu>Instagram\u003c/u>\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">, \u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003cem>\u003ca class=\"Link-sc-k8gsk-0 edjgOj sc-kpDqfm ejcycC\" href=\"https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/705626/solito-a-read-with-jenna-pick-by-javier-zamora/\" data-slate-node=\"element\" data-slate-inline=\"true\" data-encore-id=\"textLink\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">\u003cu>Solito\u003c/u>\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/em>\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-kAyceB grEoze\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">)\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-encore-id=\"text\" data-slate-node=\"element\">Want to give us feedback on the series or have an idea to share? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:hyp@kqed.org\">hyp@kqed.org\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-encore-id=\"text\" data-slate-node=\"element\">\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003chr>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares, Host\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: You know, I’ve probably been asked more than 1,000 times if I’m a U.S. citizen, and that’s not even an exaggeration. Growing up in a town along the U.S.-Mexico border, I constantly had to verify my documentation status and citizenship to U.S. Customs and Border Patrol agents. And to be clear, this wasn’t even when we were crossing the border. We were just going outside city limits, still within the state. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’d go a little something like this. My family and I would drive to an inspection point where an armed, uniformed officer would approach the car window. Upon lowering it, they’d promptly ask, “‘You a citizen?’ To which we’d each respond, “‘Yes, U.S. citizen.'” And that was it. Unless my late Tio was traveling with us. Because he was a permanent resident, not a U.S. Citizen, he’d quietly hand over his green card and await further questions, which he never really got. But I’m talking about more than 10 years ago. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because this process felt so normalized to us, I never thought to ask him how he felt during those interactions. I know for me, as a third generation Texan born into citizenship, I never felt worried during these exchanges, which I know is a huge privilege. But I did learn early on that asking for someone’s documentation is a high-stakes question and the gun at the officer’s hip, the giant fence just minutes away from my house, was proof of that somehow. Even though I was born, legit, less than two miles away from the Rio Grande, I’m on one side of a line, a line that the United States government has used to decide that my existence in this country is permitted, while others are criminalized. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, as you may have heard, the undocumented community has been placed at the center of some very aggressive immigration policies right now. There are promises to deport millions of undocumented people and to end birthright citizenship, which is a constitutional protection. And on top of that, the current administration is threatening deportation against U.S. citizens. So at this moment, the line of criminality is being drawn deeper and is changing very quickly. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Xorge Olivares, and I wanna ask this question. What does the idea of citizenship even mean today? This is Hyphenation, where conversation and cultura meet.\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So joining me today to have this conversation are two people who have written extensively about the issue of documentation and citizenship. I wanna ask each of them if there is a written work, a piece of written work that they feel is very important for us to be reading right now. So first, excited to welcome to the program Carla Cornejo via Vicentio. She’s the author of the book, The Undocumented Americans, which chronicles the experiences of many undocumented people in this country. So Karla, thank you so much for joining us today. Uh, and I want to ask if you have a recommendation for listeners. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Karla Cornejo Villavicencio: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hello, thanks for having me. I would recommend Pedro Le Mebel’s My Tender Matador or in Spanish, it’s Tengo Miedo Torero. It’s a Chilean novel set during the Pinochet years and it’s about like an aging drag queen and trans woman who just survives those years with incredible imagination and. glamor and melodrama and I found it very inspiring and it’s pretty slim too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nice. Thank you for sharing that. Also, I love a queer story. I will always add queer stories to my repertoire of books. Also excited to welcome to the program Javier Zamora, who is best known for his 2022 memoir, Solito, which chronicled his own experience as an unaccompanied minor going from El Salvador to the United States. Javier, thank you so much for joining us today and asking if you also have a recommendation for a piece of written work that we should be reading. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Javier Zamora: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I do. I think the unexpected perk of publishing a book is getting books in advance. And there’s this forthcoming one by Daisy Hernandez called Citizenship, a Story. And the subtitle is Notes on Origin, Familias, and Who We Are. And it’s going to come out in early 2026. and I genuinely think everybody should read it because she talks directly about this idea, which is an idea about citizenship, and countries, and race, and sexuality, like all these things that are affecting us today.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, thank you each for those suggestions. And for again, joining me today, I, I like that you’re getting at exactly what we’re hoping to talk about during this episode, which is the idea of citizenship. Yes, there is the, by the books, understanding of what citizenship means, especially here in the United States, but it also is an idea in the sense of being documented is also an idea. But I want to ask, starting with you Javier, this notion of documentation. And when you became fully aware that you were undocumented, or that the United State’s government viewed you as such. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Javier Zamora: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know what? I had no idea. You know, I was just a kid. Like I didn’t, my nine year old brain didn’t understand why we didn’t come on a plane per se. I just thought that yes we didn’t get a visa but there was no understanding of borders, passports and legality. But I don’t think I truly understood. or it began to hit, that I was different, completely different, until 9-11 happened. Around that time, my parents were hoping that because they had fled a war-torn area and they had applied to this thing called Nakata and political asylum, my dad was one of immigrants and I think could be the man. that he was very sure that the green card was gonna arrive at the mailbox and he didn’t hire a lawyer. And it’s by sheer bad luck that our appointment happened the first week of October of 2001. And so then my first instances of understanding that, oh, sh-t, like, we have to be afraid, is that we had… a huge break, because when you interview, you’re always down to just one person. And it’s usually for us, it has always been a white man who has to like validate whether your story and your testimony is true. And he thought that our story wasn’t true. But he did, instead of directly sending us to deportation, he did allow us to go seek a lawyer immediately. And so I’m 11 years old and I remember running through downtown to the financial district of San Francisco, looking for an immigration lawyer that would help us stay. We were under deportation proceedings, but somehow we stayed. And again, you know, I was 11 and it wasn’t until I got to college that I would, that I completely began to like read and understand what my family’s legal story was. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you for sharing that experience. I want to ask you, Karla, if you remember growing up just how you had to navigate this status that had been placed upon you by the government and by people who didn’t know where you were coming from, where your family was coming from. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Karla Cornejo Villavicencio: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I would equate being undocumented with feeling perpetually unsafe. It’s not necessarily the same thing as feeling always afraid, but you’re certainly always unsafe, you’re always precarious. And I knew that, just as I knew that as a girl, like I could be abused by a man at any time, as an undocumented girl, I felt like the state could do anything to me at any times as well. So it was, it was scary growing up. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I, I think this, this issue of safety is what most people forget when we have this much larger conversation about immigration is that there is an element of feeling unsafe that folks are trying, whether in their country of origin, even here in the States that they’re trying to relieve themselves of. Part of the thing that I guess you learn early on, even when you are not undocumented, I’ll say is I understood this issue or this notion of papeles and that documentation needed to exist. And so I’m curious, Javier, if this just the language of papeleis resonates with you or means something with you and if it did at a very early age.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Javier Zamora: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, that word citizenship, I think I learned in school. You know the, the first instance was my parents, you know, when I mentioned, oh, the green card is going to come. He didn’t even say the word green card. Los papeles van a llegar, nos van a mandar los papeles. So like this idea of a piece of paper. It’s not like, to me, I think as a nine year old, you know, learning English and I knew I was different and I knew that I couldn’t tell my friends because my parents told me not to tell anybody how I had gotten to this country. By \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">10,\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> 5th, 6th grade, I also learned a story to tell people that I had been born at the local hospital. But all these things, I still didn’t understand these ideas of citizenship. What I did understand was that I didn’t have a piece of paper. And usually as a nine, 10 year old, that piece of paper with a birth certificate that didn’t say that I had been born in this country\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m curious, kind of similar to what Javier just mentioned. Did you create certain stories or narratives? Like to protect yourself, just so that way you knew that nobody would be able to figure something out that could then be used against you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Karla Cornejo Villavicencio: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sure, I mean, that’s when I started my campaign of personal misinformation. I don’t really give people access to myself. And that is obviously something that I learned. I’m not, I don’t deceive, but I also do not feel like the world is entitled to my interiority. And it’s the one thing that I’ve had that has belonged to me, has just been my mind. And so I’m very protective of it. And I think growing up, I learned how to have conversations where I learned to navigate social situations while staying safe, right? And some of that involves knowing when to be invisible and knowing when to stand out a little bit more, learning how to like a pretty intuitive understanding of that. And I mean, I guess that’s part of the story. It was that I was just Um, like an elusive chanteuse. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Javier Zamora: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And if I can hear, I think, you know, Karla’s book was published before I published anything in prose. And I did those were the parts of your book, Karla, that really spoke to me because I had never really read anybody like address this almost like superpower that we don’t want, but we learn in order to to remain safe. And that is exactly what it feels like. And I think that term that you just mentioned, I think it’s brilliant. And it helped me even as a 30-year-old man begin to learn something of how I had lived my life for 20 years up to that point. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Karla Cornejo Villavicencio: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s really sweet Javier, thank you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I want to pull into this, what Karla just said about the invisibility and the visibility dynamics. I’m curious, Javier, about your own navigation of invisibility, invisibility and when you realized you preferred one over another. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Javier Zamora: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For me, I think like most stories begins in the relationship that you have with your parents. For me my dad was absent for my first nine years of my life, but my mom was there, but then she left. But before she left, you know, she was a young teenage mom and I think she really pressed upon this at times, toxic relationship of you have to be the best. You have to be the valedictorian in order to get a free uniform and free books. And you are going to be my ticket out and our ticket out of poverty. And so I had to navigate this hyper visibility. I knew that I had to had to be an honor roll student in order to get ahead and also get out of poverty, but also to hide and be invisible at different times in order to stay in this country and not go back. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, one of the most, uh, kind of explicit moments of visibility is the fact that each of you have written something about your experiences. And I love that Javier, you mentioned how Karla’s book was kind of one of the, the first that you were able to see where this experience had been shared and I do want to ask, I’m going to ask both of you, but I want to start with you, Carla about the decision to write the book and to place yourself in such a vulnerable position by talking about a subject that most people would be quite scared to share.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Karla Cornejo Villavicencio: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The story that I tell is that I kind of fell into it because like Trump won the first time and I felt like there was like nothing really that felt representative to me of what being undocumented felt like. I think I desperately needed to witness what was happening in the first Trump administration. I think that I knew one of the things I learned just intuitively growing up is what it’s like to be a sort of a powerless being and the sort of the little safeties that you build up over the years, you know, like Javier said, a lot of that happens academically, happens through standing out academically, like melting into the background is something that, speaking for myself, was dangerous, would have condemned me to a sameness of sort of the world around me, and that was un-conceivable.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Javier Zamora: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, similarly to what Karla just said, you know, I think, again, there aren’t, there weren’t many complete or dignified representations of immigrants during the first Trump administration. It was like all these white liberals were like, oh my god, we never heard of undocumented people before when we’ve been here all along. Let me write some, you know, not thought out book about it. This happened all the time during the first administration. And somehow there were some glimmers, some diamonds there like Karla’s book, you knows, Antonio Arguez’s book. But then there was nothing. And so for me, I think I was also, you I was writing poetry. And I didn’t like what I had produced, my first book of poems came out in 2017 uh, write on as he took power the first time. And I felt that poetry couldn’t tell my whole story. But then there were a lot of these non-immigrants writing about immigrants. And it made me think, you know, talking about hyper visibility and like this valedictorian mentality, which I wasn’t a valedictorian, but I wanted to be. Um, but I could do it better. I can tell this story better than all these non-immigrants. And so I think that’s how I entered it. By that point, I also had the comfort of having a green card with my book of poems. I did not have a green card. I’m not a citizen yet. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Would I publish the book now? Yes. But I think our stories are necessary at the end of the day. If I have ever written something that jeopardizes my own legal status in this country, and if I get to be sent out because of anything that I said for any shirt that I’m wearing for saying free Palestine, then you know, honestly I don’t need this country. You know, why are we trying to? be such good quote unquote citizens in order for what you know the the U.S. is showing its colors and it always has.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I do want to take a break and when we come back, focus a little bit on the representation that you have shared with the world. We’re gonna get a short, little break.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>[SPONSOR MESSAGE]\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So we were talking about dignified representation and the fact that each of you saw a moment to be able to share your story. And Carla, when I introduced you, I mentioned again that your book was called the undocumented Americans. And I love the juxtaposition of those words, especially because I feel like in this national narrative in the political discourse, most people will say on one particular side of the aisle that those two words don’t necessarily go together. So I’m curious for you about the choice to title your book. undocumented Americans, where they can coexist as a hyphenation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Karla Cornejo Villavicencio:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, well, people can’t really take the term, the hemispheric term America. The publishers recommended undocumented America, which felt to me like very national geographic. And I was like, no. And then I wanted to be a little bit of a b-tch. And I want it to… I want it to be an homage to Henry James. So I want to call it The Undocumented Americans. And yeah, I mean, I don’t really feel too intimately with the name, but I do know that my Connecticut State Senator, Chris Murphy, got in trouble for saying something very nice, but very mild, you know? He was just something like, I feel sorry for our neighbors. are the undocumented Americans. And I think maybe he thought that that was the term we’re now using. But he got into so much trouble for it. He got so much hate. I know that because I have a Google alert on the undocumented American. I would get like, like right wing blogs being like, you know, all sorts of things. Poor Chris Murphy. So I think my book did have an impact in that they got Chris Murphy. into a lot of trouble for embracing the term. So people seem to have an issue with it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s interesting. I talk about the story of how, you know, I’m always having to say I’m a U S citizen when I’m back home, because it’s a border point, it’s an entry point. And we were always told to say U S citizens, not American citizen, because of this notion of you can be for many part of the Americas. What does that mean? So I think even just that specification of U S citizen was just ingrained in me at such an early age. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So,\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I want to focus on language because there is that notion of American and citizen. And so I want to start with you Javier about if either of those words, American or citizen resonate more with you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Javier Zamora: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">None – I’ve never considered myself either. You know, I’ve been, especially since the second administration Trump presidency began, I’ve really been looking at my own trajectory into obtaining papeles. You know, I finally get a green card, When? During the first Trump administration, I’ve had a green card for six years now. And I haven’t applied to become a citizen. And so for me it’s like now that I don’t have to look over my shoulder as much, or so I thought, now we’re learning in this presidency that, oh, a green card is also not as safe as you once thought. And now even facing this very real and almost urgent question for myself because I have to either apply to renew my green card or apply for citizenship next year. And so I’m like, why would I want to become? And what does that mean? What am I gaining? I am gaining a vote. You know, I’ve never voted in my life. Not in El Salvador, I’m not here. But is that, is it political citizenship? What am I gaining socially? I don’t think I will be gaining anything else that I don’t already have. So what is the difference? So I don’t know. I am with you. I’m still actively thinking about it every single day. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Karla, are you in a similar situation where you think about it every day, about whether you choose one of those words over another, American or citizen? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Karla Cornejo Villavicencio:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, my life is not filled with a lot of choices and that’s also not a choice I’m given. So, um, I’m fine with whatever people want to call me so long as it’s not a slur. I guess I do identify as an immigrant. I am naturalized as a citizen, but my brain developed under a certain set of circumstances, and I have a certain set of skills, like I said. So you don’t stop being an immigrant at any point in the legalization process. There is a process of like acculturation. There’s a process with assimilation or not. There’s like so many like things, there’s like code switching. There’s, there’s a certain set of experiences, I think that do unite immigrants but I don’t think that, I don’t think you really stop being an immigrant because it is sort of about being someone who doesn’t have a place that necessarily wants to claim them. And they are kind of looking out for themselves and looking for a place of safety and freedom and dignity. And then you’re willing to move for it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I do wanna focus and pivot us a little bit to the future. And I wanna ask in this moment, what do you think we’ve started to understand if anything at all or what is exposed now about the idea of American citizenship?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Javier Zamora:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think the empire is crumbling. We can see it. I think that settler colonial colony that the United States is showing its framework. And so for me, you know, the answer, because I do think that artists and writers should look at what is wrong with the world, but also dream of something to provide or gift for the future. For me, I think the answer is easy. The answer was here before white people showed up.It took me 30 plus years for me to even begin to identify as Native, as Indigenous, which I also am. And I think a lot of us in the Latina community are still carrying that shame of being part Black, part Indigenous, and we want to be proud of the small percentage of Spanish or European blood that we have. But that’s not the answer. That is the poison that we within us and we do. And so what is left for the future? For me, the future is looking back and imagining a Turtle Island or the Americas before any white man came here. You know, that is where the answers lie.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Karla, are you optimistic about what we can anticipate? Not necessarily in this current administration, but for the years to come, the next 20, 30 years. Will the conversation surrounding citizenship and people who are undocumented, do you think it’ll change or will be kind of what we’ve experienced for generations?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Karla Cornejo Villavicencio: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, I’m optimistic every day because that’s what keeps me going and that’s why keeps me alive and committing to the human social experiment. But I definitely don’t believe in a utopia ever materializing. I think human beings are bad and selfish and desirous of power in ways that cannot really be trusted. This is something that happened slowly and it happened over time. and it involved the participation and non-participation of a lot of people. And so I would say we need to have people who believe in democracy, even though it might be an illusion and it might be a myth and it may be a pyramid scheme. Like so many things are, like love or religion, like faith, these are things that become real because you all participate in a collective delusion about it. And so I think that people who care to participate in the delusion of democracy, when you could participate in the delusion of many other things, they should run for office. They should become judges. They should become lawyers. They should become doctors who work at free clinics. How do you use yourself and your safety if you are a person who is safe to contribute to the safety of people who have literally no rights. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I wanna thank both of you for sharing a lot of yourselves, a lot of your experiences and providing your insight on this very difficult topic, especially because of what’s happening politically in the world. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Javier Zamora:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thank you\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you wanna follow them and get any of their works, all you have to do is go to our show notes. We will show you how to follow them on social, buy their books, and support everything that they’ve got going on. So please do that. And also, if you want to send us any information about your own story or anything you wanna see represented on hyphenation, just email us at hyp at kqed.org. Thank you all for listening. Hasta luego. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Credits:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hyphenación is a KQED Studios Production. It is produced by Ana De Almeida Amaral, Alex Tran, and me, Xorje Olivares. Chris Hambrick is our editor. Mixing and mastering by Jim Benett and Christopher Beale. Jen Chien is executive producer and KQED’s director of podcasts. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. Special thanks to Megan Tan, Martina Castro, and Paulina Velasco for their development support. Thank you to Maha Sanad and Alana Walker for their audience engagement support, to podcast operations manager Katie Sprenger, Video Operations manager Vivian Morales, and our chief content officer Holly Kernan. Okay mi gente, cuídense.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"slug": "hyphenacion-caregiving-joy-and-sacrifice",
"title": "Caregiving: Balancing Joy and Sacrifice",
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"headTitle": "Caregiving: Balancing Joy and Sacrifice | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cem> \u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In Latino cultures, it’s often expected that we someday become caregivers for our parents or other family members. Anyone who has taken on this role can tell you that it’s hard and demands some big sacrifices. This week on Hyphenación, host Xorje Olivares gets together with poet Yosimar Reyes and professor Anita Tijerina Revilla to talk about the struggle of sacrificing to be a caregiver while trying not to lose yourself in the needs of others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC1200585640&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Watch this episode on YouTube\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>https://youtu.be/A4EBUctBRb8\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guests:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yosimar Reyes (\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/yosirey/?hl=en\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Instagram\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">/ \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://yosimarreyes.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">poetry\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">)\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Anita Tijerina Revilla (\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/mujer_fiera/\">Instagram\u003c/a>)\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the series or have an idea to share? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:hyp@kqed.org\">hyp@kqed.org\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003chr>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares, Host:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Let’s say in the next couple of minutes you were to get a phone call from, I don’t know, your sister, and she says something’s wrong with mom. They don’t quite know what it is, but just to be safe, they’re gonna take her to the emergency room.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, maybe you’re like me and you live thousands of miles away from your immediate family. You’ve got a new job, you’ve got a few friends, maybe somebody special that’s keeping you rooted in this new city. But most of all, you probably have a routine. The thing you’ve worked really hard to craft and maintain so you can live life the way that you want, and on the terms that you’ve chosen, because that is one of the advantages of being grown and an adult.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But your sister calls you back, and the doctor is saying a few things that you don’t understand, some things that you do, but you don’t want to hear it, because it starts to become very real. This is happening and I’m not ready, but it’s mom, so routine, ni que nada– I would drop everything to help her, right? Even move back home?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Xorge Olivares, and I’m the son of aging parents so at some point, I’m gonna be confronted with this very real situation, and I think I know what I would do. But will I actually go through with it when push comes to shove?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So today I want to ask, what are we willing to sacrifice right now in order to care for a loved one? This is Hyphenación, where conversation and cultura meet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So I’m really happy to have this conversation today with two folks who have been a bit vocal about this very personal topic. The first is poet and writer, Yosimar Reyes, who has spoken openly not only about migration, queerness, but also about being a caretaker for his grandmother. So Josimar, thank you so much for joining us today. And I wanna share a photo that Yosimar gave us as a team to be able to share with our audience. Yosimar, who is this wonderful woman in this photo, and did you have a nickname for her? Did she have a name for you? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Yosimar Reyes: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hi everybody, this is my Abuelita, Madonia Galeana Dionisio. Her nickname for me was Gordo, I’ve always been known as Gordo. And for her, we just call her Abuelita or Mama Doña would be the name that we everybody referenced her as.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I love and slightly hate that I feel like growing up, everybody’s nickname for children is having to do with weight. Like either you’re Flaquito, you’re Morenito, you’re Pretito. I mean, obviously that’s more skin tone, but \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Yosimar Reyes: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, usually your parents are your first bully, so you get conditioned into facing the world through them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just have a little bit of a thicker skin because of it. But thank you so much for joining us, Yosimar, for this conversation. And also joining us is Profe Anita Tijerina Revilla, who is department chair for the Chicanx and Latinx Studies Department at Cal State LA, who’s also talked about queer Latinidad and about her own journey as a caretaker for her niece and nephew and also for her sister. So Profe, thank you so much for joining us. And we also have a photo that we’d like to share. And who are these? Cute little critters. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anita Tijerina Revilla: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Saludos, thank you for having me. These are my niece and nephew, also my son and daughter. I adopted them a few years ago. This is Ray on the right and Michael right next to me and myself, Ray and Michael, my niece and nephew, also my daughter and son.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I love that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anita Tijerina Revilla: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And they call me honey.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Honey! Ooh, has that has, has it always been honey or has there been a journey to arrive to honey? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anita Tijerina Revilla: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Honey works really well for the kids Because. I am their tía but I’m more than their tia and their mother is very much a part of their lives so we didn’t, I didn’t want them to call me mom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Honey is so sweet. And there’s such a term of it’s such a term endearment regardless, like anybody who can call you honey, there’s already an element of love that you can’t hide from. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anita Tijerina Revilla: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But I’m excited for us to have this conversation because it is rooted in family. And a lot of what’s happening for me and my family is we’re approaching that point where we’re caretaking and caregiving, which I’m gonna use interchangeably, but this notion of being at home to care for a loved one, it’s kind of coming close. So I’m approaching that process of when I’m going to need to go home to be a caretaker for one of my parents. And I want to start with you, Yosimar, if you don’t mind, because maybe a few days ago, you did post something on your Instagram that was about this caretaking journey for you. So I’m wondering if you can talk a little bit about the decision to first even become a caretaker for your grandmother. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Yosimar Reyes: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, so I’m originally from the state of Guerrero, Mexico. I migrated to the United States when I was three years old, and it was my grandma who actually carried me across the journey to bring me to this country. And when we landed here, like so many young people, I was 3, so my mom wanted me to go live with her, but my grandma was part of those formative years, and so I thought my grandma my mom, so I had this affinity towards her, and I always wanted to be with her. Um, and so my relationship with her has always been me and my grandparents. I’m the one that grew up with my grandparents, um, but, uh, once I graduated college, I went to live in Los Angeles and I was there for about five years. And then COVID happened. And I think one of the interesting things I am based out of San Jose, California, um during that time, five zip codes were disproportionately impacted by positive COVID cases. My grandma was part of one of those zip codes. And so I think out of that, I saw her getting older. I saw just, you know, her just aging. And so, I decided to make the choice of like, I need to leave to go back home and help her. And yeah, I think that’s when I– it wasn’t an active choice, but more like something natural that was just happening and then I decided to move back home and that’s how I ended up taking on the role. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So you wouldn’t say it was necessarily because there was this expectation that Yosimar at some point is going to move back home, take care of Abuelita, that it felt more of an in the moment decision because of the global pandemic that was happening that was forcing us to rethink how we were approaching things. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Yosimar Reyes: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I think it was just a natural course. I think for me, one of the things that happened between the relationship with me and my grandparents is that you just know what’s instinctively, you just know, like this is what I need to do or like that. And it didn’t necessarily feel like a burden or it didn’ feel like I was making a sacrifice or making a choice. I was like, this is my calling and this is the next step that I need do. But back then, I didn’t have language to call it what it is.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I love that you’re saying a calling because I want to ask you, Profe Anita, if you think that for you being a caretaker for your niece and nephew was a calling, or if it was something else that you had to in the moment figure out how to respond to. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anita Tijerina Revilla: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, it’s funny, I do not think it was a calling, I think it was codependence. You know, I’ll tell you a little bit about me and my life. I grew up with a single parent. She was widowed at the age of 30. She had three kids and she always put herself last, right? And so codependence literally means that you take care of everybody at your own expense. And so for me, what happened is my sister had grown up, this is my little sister and I have an older brother too, but she had grown with depression her whole life. We knew it since she was little. And later on in life, she was clinically diagnosed as bipolar, having bipolar experience and schizoaffective disorder. And it wasn’t until maybe she turned 30 that she started to show or exhibit symptoms of schizophrenia and what other people call madness right? Yeah, she started to have delusions and she started having like a deep paranoia. And so it was also connected to drug addiction and the drug addiction was connected to her depression. And so all of this is like, again, as I’ve learned little by little, I’ve come to understand my sister’s experience more. But back then, all I knew is that my sister was sick and something was happening that we didn’t understand. She had two small children. They were three and four years old. And the first time she got hospitalized, she was arrested and brutalized by police merely for exhibiting this anger and this madness. And so she was in the hospital right after she was in jail, I had to fight to get her out. And when she got out, she came directly to live with me. It was my, maybe, second year as an assistant professor in Las Vegas. I had just started my career and I had worked my whole life not to be a parent, especially not a teen mom or a single parent. Those were things that were stigmatized with me growing up. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, of course, I honor single mothers and single parents just like my mother, but that’s not what I wanted to be. I wanted it to have a career. And the only reason I even went to college and wanted a career was to take care of my impoverished family because I had come to believe through my mother that having that education would allow me to help pull them out of their poverty. And so little by little, those are the messages that I got. You have to take care of your family, and you have to sacrifice your life to take care of the people in your family. And I accepted it with lots of love, but I don’t think there was really choice involved, right? It was a limited choice and it wasn’t until much later that I actually said yeah, I did make a choice and I’m grateful that I had that opportunity and it’s one of the most powerful experiences I’ve ever had to be able to parent children who are now 20 and 21 years old. They’re adults and so I feel honored to have been their safety and the person who took care of them. But back then, I was mourning and grieving my life, the life that I had as a single queer person starting a job in Las Vegas as a women’s studies professor. It was one of the hardest things that I’ve ever had to do is to parent when I didn’t plan on doing it, especially for children that young. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I definitely understand the point that you’re, you’re making. You did say about, uh, you felt like you sacrificed your life and I’m curious, Yosimar, you did say that, you’ve reflected and you said that it was a calling to be able to help your grandmother, but did you think that there was a moment where you were sacrificing your life? And unable to do things that you had already put in your head that you wanted to accomplish as an individual.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Yosimar Reyes: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I think similar to Anita, I think one of the things that happened within my life is we grew up poor. I think, I used to say the term working class, but no. I think we need to name it– poverty. The thing with growing up poor is that it’s silent violence because you’re not aware of what you need. You’re not aware and I think poverty adds a different level to these circumstances in which I felt guilty. Here I am living in Los Angeles in a two bedroom apartment in Boyle Heights, having my fun after college years. I have a roommate, throwing parties. I have my own room, I have my own washer and dryer. I have all this stability. And then I would travel back home where my grandma stayed there sleeping on the living room couch. She’s still recycling bottles and cans. My brother’s sleeping on the floor. I have another cousin in the living room. And I just remember going to visit her and how much I hated the poverty in which she was living. But she loved it. This is all she known. This is a life she known, and I just feel a certain guilt. How is it that I’m traveling the country, that I am speaking at these prestigious universities, and my grandma is still living in the same apartment than since we arrived in this country? Yeah, of course there were moments where I didn’t want this responsibility. I wanna be myself. And then I think all the other layers that were undocumented. So it’s like this added layer of poverty, undocumented, all this stuff. And then that was the big tug of war of realizing like, damn, like, I’d see other people excelling in their careers. I can’t do that. I can move to New York and focus on my writing and live this writer dream because I have these people depending on me. But I think I would fight it a lot. I would have these moments of tension in which I was like, ah, why does it have to be me? Like, I don’t wanna do this. But then there was these beautiful, beautiful moments that I was, maybe because I’m a poet, I was ah this is sacred and something really beautiful and something that I don’t think not a lot of people get to experience and then when I had those moments it just made sense \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m curious, Profe Anita, like, about this tug of war, was there a moment because you did mention this, it was a huge sacrifice, this is not what you wanted but your life was taken in a direction that you had not anticipated, so was there time where there was a beautiful moment, or what was one of the earliest signs of that this could be an opportunity for you to feel grateful for being in this position as caretaker. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anita Tijerina Revilla: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think it’s a fluid experience. It’s not a moment. It’s like you wake up in the morning, you think these babies are beautiful. They’re making you laugh. You’re hugging them and loving them. and then all of a sudden one of them has a meltdown and you have to go to work and your friends are going out and you’re not going out or you used to stay up till two or three in the morning and you have to go sleep. You’re falling asleep at 10 o’clock and can’t do your work but then you see them sleeping and they look beautiful. So there are many moments where you wonder like, wow, how did this become my experience? And I feel bad for the kids because they’ve heard me multiple times say, like, I didn’t plan to have children. My intention was to be child-free, not childless, child-free. And so I made the decision because I had already been parenting people. I was the one that was going to go to college and the one was going to take care of all these things because I was responsible. And so the fact was I had already been parenting. And so when I rece ived the children, I did it because I love them so much that I didn’t want them to be in danger. And I have to honor my sister in her choice because someone who is struggling with mental illness or drug addiction, they don’t always. They’re not always willing to release their children and let them be taken care of by someone else. But my sister trusted me. She had a deep trust and a deep love for me. And so she said, I’m going to need you to take care of the kids because I can’t do it. I can take care of myself, and I can take care of them, and they will be safer with you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you for sharing that. We’re actually going to take a quick break and be back with more Hyphenación.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[SPONSOR MESSAGE]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yosimar, I want to ask you something that Profe Anita mentioned, which I feel like I’m going to struggle with is the ability to just be honest with whoever you’re caring for and mention the moments of frustration, mention the moments of joy. And just being transparent about how you’re feeling every step of the way. Was it easy for you to be open and transparent with your grandma about just anything that you were experiencing? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Yosimar Reyes: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I think one of the funny things about my grandma is that she was witty. My grandma was 89, 90, but that homegirl was…sharp!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, good for her! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Yosimar Reyes: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was hilarious because we would go out to doctor’s appointments and also my I wasn’t babying her like she’s an adult she’s a grown woman so I wouldn’t necessarily baby her so if we’re arguing at a doctor’s office I’m like I’m sure people think this is elder abuse but this is how we get along like I could talk to her you know people review their grandma’s in a certain way but I grew up with her so she’s like my my friend so um but there was this moment where we would get into it because we’re so caught up and we were like, just fight, right? And she would get me frustrated because es bien terca. She wouldn’t do things. I would argue about her medications. One of the things about my grandma is that she didn’t trust doctors. So she was very much about, I’m gonna do it my way. And so we would tug a lot. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">¡Me están mintiendo! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Yosimar Reyes: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Como, ese doctor no más te quiere enfermo para sacarte dinero. I’m like, girl, you’re on medi-cal. You’re not paying them. So, chill out. But then it was funny because obviously, my grandma, she was an emotional manipulator. So she would get mad at me and then shut down. I’ll come home and all the lights are off. And I’m, like, okay, this girl is going through it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, no. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Yosimar Reyes: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Or she would lock herself or she would go pretend that she’s sleeping in the garage. I’m like, girl, why do you have to sleep in the car? Do you have a bed? Like all these emotional manipulations, you know, all of that. But then I have to be like the conscientious one and I’m like, okay, she’s older. Let me give it. And then I’ll be like, I will eat them. I just want to apologize to you. I just wanna tell you that you’re not a burden to me. You’re the biggest gift I ever had. And I’m so sorry if I get frustrated with you, but sometimes this is very difficult because I’m doing so much and I just want to let you know that it’s not you. I love you and I care for you. And then she would be like, “I know.” And then we would hug it out. And we would have these episodes. We would have this telenovela episodes. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But then I started to teach my grandma how to use her words instead of these things. Like, hey, if you need space, you can just tell me, hey, right now I’m feeling a little sad. And it’s interesting because she started learning words like siento depresión, o me siento triste. Something that it’s not very common. I don’t think it’s very common in Latino, monolingual, Spanish. Deciré, tengo una tristeza. And then I would like, okay, let’s process it. What do we need to do? Or like, oh, let me, let us go walk or let’s, and sometimes it was hard because she, I understood she was, my grandma was so isolated.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think one of the things that people don’t realize is that my grandma is very independent. So she’s used to making movidas on her own. And now because she’s older, she can’t necessarily go out to the store by herself. there’s certain things that she can’t do. So her life became reduced into somebody watching her. And I think one of the biggest things that I learned was the fact that this country doesn’t facilitate for you to think outside of your immediate needs. So for someone to come and take time to take her to a restaurant or take time to take her to the park, it was a lot. And so I think for her also realizing that she needed someone was a very hard, and that’s where the depression came.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Prof. Anita, I want to ask because… Part of the, the caretaking journey sometimes is that there’s a difference of generations and we speak different languages. So I’m wondering if, if you had to, to deal with this interesting perspective of you were having to communicate with youngins who might not. Understand where you’re coming from because the lived experience is so different.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anita Tijerina Revilla: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s a great question. I think as a first-gen college-educated person, I was already dealing with that. All of this, when I talk about the kids, I can’t talk about it without talking about my mom, too. So from the very beginning, when I first read Gloria Anzaldua, Borderlands, La Frontera, I called my mom up. I’m like, mom, why didn’t you teach me more Spanish? I used to speak Spanish before I started school. Why didn’t you continue? And she’s like mija they used to punish us, you know hit us with rulers. The white nuns would punish us for speaking in Spanish so I taught you English so that they wouldn’t do that to you. And so I did the work of teaching my mom what Chicana meant, what feminist meant. I taught her about colorism because my family is the darker one. My father was very dark skinned, Indigenous. So little by little, I was trying to teach my mom and also reclaim our cultural identity and our pride and remove all of the internalized racism that we had grown up with, similar to the sexism, et cetera. So when the kids came into my life, I did the same thing with them. Like I said, they were three and four years old. And I remember distinctly, Michael, either was three or four. And he asked me like, “Honey, why do you have a girlfriend?” I had a girlfriend at the time. It was my first partner after I became a parent. And I said oh, that’s because um I love her and she’s I’m in a relationship with her she’s my girlfriend and I said and he said “But why don’t you have a boyfriend” I said well I actually and at the time identified as bisexual, now I identify as queer and fluid but I said I’m bisexual so that means I can love boys or girls and it doesn’t matter to me you know if they’re a boy or girl I can still love them. And he said, “You know what honey, I think I’m bisexual too.” four years old. And I was like, Oh, okay, well, just so you know, whoever you love, whoever, you want to be a boyfriend or girlfriend that’s always going to be accepted in our home.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I will say, uh, one of the things that’s possible when you’re physically with someone is getting to talk at all hours of the day, you know, during dinner, whenever the moment feels right and just learning about the person you’re with. And so I want to ask you, starting with you, What is something that you learned from your grandmother that you don’t think you would have ever had the chance to do unless you had all of that access to her?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Yosimar Reyes: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, I, my grandma, you know, passed away in November, and I think not just because she passed away, I think I always knew my grandma as like this magical person. I’m like, Oh, I’d say it takes a really powerful person to raise a little queer child and to not murder their spirit. And my grandma never, my Grandma was an alcahueta. If I wanted something, she would make it work. And I think my grandma maybe was that because she was trying to make up for the mother that she couldn’t be to her daughters. And that’s when I got a complex idea of my grandma. My grandma was in survival mode. And so her way of parenting her daughters was probably not the kindness or not the most. And so now that she’s older, she’s confronting that because everything comes back. And so maybe the relationship with her daughters is not that close or it’s turbulent because they haven’t spoken about this and there hasn’t been a sorry. And so I think there was this constant thing.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But for me, I can’t speak to that because my grandmother was never that to me. And so I had the patience that obviously my mom or my aunts necessarily didn’t have with her, but I did. And so, I think what I learned was that, to view my grandmother’s life with compassion and now that she’s older, to confront her or to talk to her and see, listen, maybe it’s time you forgive yourself for what you didn’t do and think about the things that you did do. And so I think my-the most biggest thing of spending time with someone that’s elderly and someone that confronting their mortality is making sure that they make amends with the guilt or the shame that they carry. And so I’m happy to say that I was helping my grandma gravitate toward that and that I able to honor, ‘You were on survival mode, it’s not your fault. And look, look how far you made it. Look how you shifted. And yes you fucked up. There’s moments that you fuck up as a human life is not that. But I want you to tell you that at the end of the day, the impact in your legacy, the way people speak about your character, the way people thank you for the things that you’ve done for them, it’s very dynamic. So you also need to be kind to yourself.’ And so I think that was the biggest thing to be able to look at my grandma in the complexities of the things where she did mess up but also the compassion of saying you did the best that you could with what you had. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you for sharing that. Profe Anita, I want to ask you sort of the inverse of that, especially because we started this conversation with you talking about the very real sensation of this is not how you thought your life was going to go. So what is something you learned about yourself now that you are Honey and, uh, you’ve been doing this for almost 20 years. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anita Tijerina Revilla: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think the thing that I learned about myself was that I had to figure out a way to take care of myself and my body, mind and spirit even while I was taking care of everyone else. Like, I even before I got the kids, I already was putting other people’s needs before my own. I was a people pleaser, always wanted everybody to love me and to accept me, especially because I grew up thinking I was unlovable. I, you know, grew up different. I have a different hand and a lot of people bullied me for my hand and I thought I would grow up to not have love. And so I think with the kids, I realized like I have to figure out what I need to heal myself because I want to be a parent that parents from a space of healing, that parents from a place of liberation versus fear. I was living my life through my mom’s trauma, and so I had to figure out how to heal, release her trauma and heal my own trauma. And I don’t think I would have gotten as far as I have without the kids. They hold me accountable. They use my words against me. They throw my feminism in my face, and they say they’re not as easily… convinced when I tell them something is good or bad. They challenged me and I like my mom taught me I taught them you have a voice\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ah, you have a voice. Thats so powerful. I want to thank each of your for opening up and being as vulnerable as you have been on this very difficult topic. But I think it’s helping me, its helping other folks that are on the precipice of this journey for themselves. So I can’t thank you enough for taking the time to go in depth for what this experience has been like for you. So I want to thank you each for that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I want it to our listeners that if you want to follow our guests, I will put all of their socials, where you can find them online, all of the written works, that will all be in the show notes. And if you wanna communicate with us as a Hyphenation show… You can send us an email at HYP at KQED.org so we can know what you want to talk about on our program. But again, just want to say thanks to our guests and thanks to you for being here for this chat. Until next time. Hasta Lleugo.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Credits:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hyphenación is a KQED Studios Production. It is produced by Ana De Almeida Amaral, Alex Tran, and me, Xorje Olivares. Chris Hambrick is our editor. Mixing and mastering by Jim Bennett and Christopher Beale. Jen Chien is executive producer and KQED’s director of podcasts. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. Special thanks to Megan Tan, Martina Castro, and Paulina Velasco for their development support. Thank you to Maha Sanad and Alana Walker for their audience engagement support, to podcast operations manager Katie Sprenger, Video Operations manager Vivian Morales, and our chief content officer Holly Kernan. Okay mi gente, cuídense.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem> \u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In Latino cultures, it’s often expected that we someday become caregivers for our parents or other family members. Anyone who has taken on this role can tell you that it’s hard and demands some big sacrifices. This week on Hyphenación, host Xorje Olivares gets together with poet Yosimar Reyes and professor Anita Tijerina Revilla to talk about the struggle of sacrificing to be a caregiver while trying not to lose yourself in the needs of others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC1200585640&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Watch this episode on YouTube\u003c/h2>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/A4EBUctBRb8'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/A4EBUctBRb8'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guests:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yosimar Reyes (\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/yosirey/?hl=en\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Instagram\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">/ \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://yosimarreyes.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">poetry\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">)\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Anita Tijerina Revilla (\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/mujer_fiera/\">Instagram\u003c/a>)\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the series or have an idea to share? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:hyp@kqed.org\">hyp@kqed.org\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003chr>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares, Host:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Let’s say in the next couple of minutes you were to get a phone call from, I don’t know, your sister, and she says something’s wrong with mom. They don’t quite know what it is, but just to be safe, they’re gonna take her to the emergency room.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, maybe you’re like me and you live thousands of miles away from your immediate family. You’ve got a new job, you’ve got a few friends, maybe somebody special that’s keeping you rooted in this new city. But most of all, you probably have a routine. The thing you’ve worked really hard to craft and maintain so you can live life the way that you want, and on the terms that you’ve chosen, because that is one of the advantages of being grown and an adult.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But your sister calls you back, and the doctor is saying a few things that you don’t understand, some things that you do, but you don’t want to hear it, because it starts to become very real. This is happening and I’m not ready, but it’s mom, so routine, ni que nada– I would drop everything to help her, right? Even move back home?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Xorge Olivares, and I’m the son of aging parents so at some point, I’m gonna be confronted with this very real situation, and I think I know what I would do. But will I actually go through with it when push comes to shove?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So today I want to ask, what are we willing to sacrifice right now in order to care for a loved one? This is Hyphenación, where conversation and cultura meet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So I’m really happy to have this conversation today with two folks who have been a bit vocal about this very personal topic. The first is poet and writer, Yosimar Reyes, who has spoken openly not only about migration, queerness, but also about being a caretaker for his grandmother. So Josimar, thank you so much for joining us today. And I wanna share a photo that Yosimar gave us as a team to be able to share with our audience. Yosimar, who is this wonderful woman in this photo, and did you have a nickname for her? Did she have a name for you? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Yosimar Reyes: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hi everybody, this is my Abuelita, Madonia Galeana Dionisio. Her nickname for me was Gordo, I’ve always been known as Gordo. And for her, we just call her Abuelita or Mama Doña would be the name that we everybody referenced her as.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I love and slightly hate that I feel like growing up, everybody’s nickname for children is having to do with weight. Like either you’re Flaquito, you’re Morenito, you’re Pretito. I mean, obviously that’s more skin tone, but \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Yosimar Reyes: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, usually your parents are your first bully, so you get conditioned into facing the world through them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just have a little bit of a thicker skin because of it. But thank you so much for joining us, Yosimar, for this conversation. And also joining us is Profe Anita Tijerina Revilla, who is department chair for the Chicanx and Latinx Studies Department at Cal State LA, who’s also talked about queer Latinidad and about her own journey as a caretaker for her niece and nephew and also for her sister. So Profe, thank you so much for joining us. And we also have a photo that we’d like to share. And who are these? Cute little critters. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anita Tijerina Revilla: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Saludos, thank you for having me. These are my niece and nephew, also my son and daughter. I adopted them a few years ago. This is Ray on the right and Michael right next to me and myself, Ray and Michael, my niece and nephew, also my daughter and son.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I love that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anita Tijerina Revilla: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And they call me honey.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Honey! Ooh, has that has, has it always been honey or has there been a journey to arrive to honey? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anita Tijerina Revilla: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Honey works really well for the kids Because. I am their tía but I’m more than their tia and their mother is very much a part of their lives so we didn’t, I didn’t want them to call me mom.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Honey is so sweet. And there’s such a term of it’s such a term endearment regardless, like anybody who can call you honey, there’s already an element of love that you can’t hide from. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anita Tijerina Revilla: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But I’m excited for us to have this conversation because it is rooted in family. And a lot of what’s happening for me and my family is we’re approaching that point where we’re caretaking and caregiving, which I’m gonna use interchangeably, but this notion of being at home to care for a loved one, it’s kind of coming close. So I’m approaching that process of when I’m going to need to go home to be a caretaker for one of my parents. And I want to start with you, Yosimar, if you don’t mind, because maybe a few days ago, you did post something on your Instagram that was about this caretaking journey for you. So I’m wondering if you can talk a little bit about the decision to first even become a caretaker for your grandmother. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Yosimar Reyes: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, so I’m originally from the state of Guerrero, Mexico. I migrated to the United States when I was three years old, and it was my grandma who actually carried me across the journey to bring me to this country. And when we landed here, like so many young people, I was 3, so my mom wanted me to go live with her, but my grandma was part of those formative years, and so I thought my grandma my mom, so I had this affinity towards her, and I always wanted to be with her. Um, and so my relationship with her has always been me and my grandparents. I’m the one that grew up with my grandparents, um, but, uh, once I graduated college, I went to live in Los Angeles and I was there for about five years. And then COVID happened. And I think one of the interesting things I am based out of San Jose, California, um during that time, five zip codes were disproportionately impacted by positive COVID cases. My grandma was part of one of those zip codes. And so I think out of that, I saw her getting older. I saw just, you know, her just aging. And so, I decided to make the choice of like, I need to leave to go back home and help her. And yeah, I think that’s when I– it wasn’t an active choice, but more like something natural that was just happening and then I decided to move back home and that’s how I ended up taking on the role. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So you wouldn’t say it was necessarily because there was this expectation that Yosimar at some point is going to move back home, take care of Abuelita, that it felt more of an in the moment decision because of the global pandemic that was happening that was forcing us to rethink how we were approaching things. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Yosimar Reyes: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I think it was just a natural course. I think for me, one of the things that happened between the relationship with me and my grandparents is that you just know what’s instinctively, you just know, like this is what I need to do or like that. And it didn’t necessarily feel like a burden or it didn’ feel like I was making a sacrifice or making a choice. I was like, this is my calling and this is the next step that I need do. But back then, I didn’t have language to call it what it is.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I love that you’re saying a calling because I want to ask you, Profe Anita, if you think that for you being a caretaker for your niece and nephew was a calling, or if it was something else that you had to in the moment figure out how to respond to. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anita Tijerina Revilla: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, it’s funny, I do not think it was a calling, I think it was codependence. You know, I’ll tell you a little bit about me and my life. I grew up with a single parent. She was widowed at the age of 30. She had three kids and she always put herself last, right? And so codependence literally means that you take care of everybody at your own expense. And so for me, what happened is my sister had grown up, this is my little sister and I have an older brother too, but she had grown with depression her whole life. We knew it since she was little. And later on in life, she was clinically diagnosed as bipolar, having bipolar experience and schizoaffective disorder. And it wasn’t until maybe she turned 30 that she started to show or exhibit symptoms of schizophrenia and what other people call madness right? Yeah, she started to have delusions and she started having like a deep paranoia. And so it was also connected to drug addiction and the drug addiction was connected to her depression. And so all of this is like, again, as I’ve learned little by little, I’ve come to understand my sister’s experience more. But back then, all I knew is that my sister was sick and something was happening that we didn’t understand. She had two small children. They were three and four years old. And the first time she got hospitalized, she was arrested and brutalized by police merely for exhibiting this anger and this madness. And so she was in the hospital right after she was in jail, I had to fight to get her out. And when she got out, she came directly to live with me. It was my, maybe, second year as an assistant professor in Las Vegas. I had just started my career and I had worked my whole life not to be a parent, especially not a teen mom or a single parent. Those were things that were stigmatized with me growing up. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, of course, I honor single mothers and single parents just like my mother, but that’s not what I wanted to be. I wanted it to have a career. And the only reason I even went to college and wanted a career was to take care of my impoverished family because I had come to believe through my mother that having that education would allow me to help pull them out of their poverty. And so little by little, those are the messages that I got. You have to take care of your family, and you have to sacrifice your life to take care of the people in your family. And I accepted it with lots of love, but I don’t think there was really choice involved, right? It was a limited choice and it wasn’t until much later that I actually said yeah, I did make a choice and I’m grateful that I had that opportunity and it’s one of the most powerful experiences I’ve ever had to be able to parent children who are now 20 and 21 years old. They’re adults and so I feel honored to have been their safety and the person who took care of them. But back then, I was mourning and grieving my life, the life that I had as a single queer person starting a job in Las Vegas as a women’s studies professor. It was one of the hardest things that I’ve ever had to do is to parent when I didn’t plan on doing it, especially for children that young. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I definitely understand the point that you’re, you’re making. You did say about, uh, you felt like you sacrificed your life and I’m curious, Yosimar, you did say that, you’ve reflected and you said that it was a calling to be able to help your grandmother, but did you think that there was a moment where you were sacrificing your life? And unable to do things that you had already put in your head that you wanted to accomplish as an individual.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Yosimar Reyes: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I think similar to Anita, I think one of the things that happened within my life is we grew up poor. I think, I used to say the term working class, but no. I think we need to name it– poverty. The thing with growing up poor is that it’s silent violence because you’re not aware of what you need. You’re not aware and I think poverty adds a different level to these circumstances in which I felt guilty. Here I am living in Los Angeles in a two bedroom apartment in Boyle Heights, having my fun after college years. I have a roommate, throwing parties. I have my own room, I have my own washer and dryer. I have all this stability. And then I would travel back home where my grandma stayed there sleeping on the living room couch. She’s still recycling bottles and cans. My brother’s sleeping on the floor. I have another cousin in the living room. And I just remember going to visit her and how much I hated the poverty in which she was living. But she loved it. This is all she known. This is a life she known, and I just feel a certain guilt. How is it that I’m traveling the country, that I am speaking at these prestigious universities, and my grandma is still living in the same apartment than since we arrived in this country? Yeah, of course there were moments where I didn’t want this responsibility. I wanna be myself. And then I think all the other layers that were undocumented. So it’s like this added layer of poverty, undocumented, all this stuff. And then that was the big tug of war of realizing like, damn, like, I’d see other people excelling in their careers. I can’t do that. I can move to New York and focus on my writing and live this writer dream because I have these people depending on me. But I think I would fight it a lot. I would have these moments of tension in which I was like, ah, why does it have to be me? Like, I don’t wanna do this. But then there was these beautiful, beautiful moments that I was, maybe because I’m a poet, I was ah this is sacred and something really beautiful and something that I don’t think not a lot of people get to experience and then when I had those moments it just made sense \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m curious, Profe Anita, like, about this tug of war, was there a moment because you did mention this, it was a huge sacrifice, this is not what you wanted but your life was taken in a direction that you had not anticipated, so was there time where there was a beautiful moment, or what was one of the earliest signs of that this could be an opportunity for you to feel grateful for being in this position as caretaker. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anita Tijerina Revilla: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think it’s a fluid experience. It’s not a moment. It’s like you wake up in the morning, you think these babies are beautiful. They’re making you laugh. You’re hugging them and loving them. and then all of a sudden one of them has a meltdown and you have to go to work and your friends are going out and you’re not going out or you used to stay up till two or three in the morning and you have to go sleep. You’re falling asleep at 10 o’clock and can’t do your work but then you see them sleeping and they look beautiful. So there are many moments where you wonder like, wow, how did this become my experience? And I feel bad for the kids because they’ve heard me multiple times say, like, I didn’t plan to have children. My intention was to be child-free, not childless, child-free. And so I made the decision because I had already been parenting people. I was the one that was going to go to college and the one was going to take care of all these things because I was responsible. And so the fact was I had already been parenting. And so when I rece ived the children, I did it because I love them so much that I didn’t want them to be in danger. And I have to honor my sister in her choice because someone who is struggling with mental illness or drug addiction, they don’t always. They’re not always willing to release their children and let them be taken care of by someone else. But my sister trusted me. She had a deep trust and a deep love for me. And so she said, I’m going to need you to take care of the kids because I can’t do it. I can take care of myself, and I can take care of them, and they will be safer with you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you for sharing that. We’re actually going to take a quick break and be back with more Hyphenación.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[SPONSOR MESSAGE]\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yosimar, I want to ask you something that Profe Anita mentioned, which I feel like I’m going to struggle with is the ability to just be honest with whoever you’re caring for and mention the moments of frustration, mention the moments of joy. And just being transparent about how you’re feeling every step of the way. Was it easy for you to be open and transparent with your grandma about just anything that you were experiencing? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Yosimar Reyes: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I think one of the funny things about my grandma is that she was witty. My grandma was 89, 90, but that homegirl was…sharp!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, good for her! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Yosimar Reyes: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was hilarious because we would go out to doctor’s appointments and also my I wasn’t babying her like she’s an adult she’s a grown woman so I wouldn’t necessarily baby her so if we’re arguing at a doctor’s office I’m like I’m sure people think this is elder abuse but this is how we get along like I could talk to her you know people review their grandma’s in a certain way but I grew up with her so she’s like my my friend so um but there was this moment where we would get into it because we’re so caught up and we were like, just fight, right? And she would get me frustrated because es bien terca. She wouldn’t do things. I would argue about her medications. One of the things about my grandma is that she didn’t trust doctors. So she was very much about, I’m gonna do it my way. And so we would tug a lot. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">¡Me están mintiendo! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Yosimar Reyes: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Como, ese doctor no más te quiere enfermo para sacarte dinero. I’m like, girl, you’re on medi-cal. You’re not paying them. So, chill out. But then it was funny because obviously, my grandma, she was an emotional manipulator. So she would get mad at me and then shut down. I’ll come home and all the lights are off. And I’m, like, okay, this girl is going through it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, no. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Yosimar Reyes: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Or she would lock herself or she would go pretend that she’s sleeping in the garage. I’m like, girl, why do you have to sleep in the car? Do you have a bed? Like all these emotional manipulations, you know, all of that. But then I have to be like the conscientious one and I’m like, okay, she’s older. Let me give it. And then I’ll be like, I will eat them. I just want to apologize to you. I just wanna tell you that you’re not a burden to me. You’re the biggest gift I ever had. And I’m so sorry if I get frustrated with you, but sometimes this is very difficult because I’m doing so much and I just want to let you know that it’s not you. I love you and I care for you. And then she would be like, “I know.” And then we would hug it out. And we would have these episodes. We would have this telenovela episodes. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But then I started to teach my grandma how to use her words instead of these things. Like, hey, if you need space, you can just tell me, hey, right now I’m feeling a little sad. And it’s interesting because she started learning words like siento depresión, o me siento triste. Something that it’s not very common. I don’t think it’s very common in Latino, monolingual, Spanish. Deciré, tengo una tristeza. And then I would like, okay, let’s process it. What do we need to do? Or like, oh, let me, let us go walk or let’s, and sometimes it was hard because she, I understood she was, my grandma was so isolated.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think one of the things that people don’t realize is that my grandma is very independent. So she’s used to making movidas on her own. And now because she’s older, she can’t necessarily go out to the store by herself. there’s certain things that she can’t do. So her life became reduced into somebody watching her. And I think one of the biggest things that I learned was the fact that this country doesn’t facilitate for you to think outside of your immediate needs. So for someone to come and take time to take her to a restaurant or take time to take her to the park, it was a lot. And so I think for her also realizing that she needed someone was a very hard, and that’s where the depression came.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Prof. Anita, I want to ask because… Part of the, the caretaking journey sometimes is that there’s a difference of generations and we speak different languages. So I’m wondering if, if you had to, to deal with this interesting perspective of you were having to communicate with youngins who might not. Understand where you’re coming from because the lived experience is so different.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anita Tijerina Revilla: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s a great question. I think as a first-gen college-educated person, I was already dealing with that. All of this, when I talk about the kids, I can’t talk about it without talking about my mom, too. So from the very beginning, when I first read Gloria Anzaldua, Borderlands, La Frontera, I called my mom up. I’m like, mom, why didn’t you teach me more Spanish? I used to speak Spanish before I started school. Why didn’t you continue? And she’s like mija they used to punish us, you know hit us with rulers. The white nuns would punish us for speaking in Spanish so I taught you English so that they wouldn’t do that to you. And so I did the work of teaching my mom what Chicana meant, what feminist meant. I taught her about colorism because my family is the darker one. My father was very dark skinned, Indigenous. So little by little, I was trying to teach my mom and also reclaim our cultural identity and our pride and remove all of the internalized racism that we had grown up with, similar to the sexism, et cetera. So when the kids came into my life, I did the same thing with them. Like I said, they were three and four years old. And I remember distinctly, Michael, either was three or four. And he asked me like, “Honey, why do you have a girlfriend?” I had a girlfriend at the time. It was my first partner after I became a parent. And I said oh, that’s because um I love her and she’s I’m in a relationship with her she’s my girlfriend and I said and he said “But why don’t you have a boyfriend” I said well I actually and at the time identified as bisexual, now I identify as queer and fluid but I said I’m bisexual so that means I can love boys or girls and it doesn’t matter to me you know if they’re a boy or girl I can still love them. And he said, “You know what honey, I think I’m bisexual too.” four years old. And I was like, Oh, okay, well, just so you know, whoever you love, whoever, you want to be a boyfriend or girlfriend that’s always going to be accepted in our home.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I will say, uh, one of the things that’s possible when you’re physically with someone is getting to talk at all hours of the day, you know, during dinner, whenever the moment feels right and just learning about the person you’re with. And so I want to ask you, starting with you, What is something that you learned from your grandmother that you don’t think you would have ever had the chance to do unless you had all of that access to her?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Yosimar Reyes: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, I, my grandma, you know, passed away in November, and I think not just because she passed away, I think I always knew my grandma as like this magical person. I’m like, Oh, I’d say it takes a really powerful person to raise a little queer child and to not murder their spirit. And my grandma never, my Grandma was an alcahueta. If I wanted something, she would make it work. And I think my grandma maybe was that because she was trying to make up for the mother that she couldn’t be to her daughters. And that’s when I got a complex idea of my grandma. My grandma was in survival mode. And so her way of parenting her daughters was probably not the kindness or not the most. And so now that she’s older, she’s confronting that because everything comes back. And so maybe the relationship with her daughters is not that close or it’s turbulent because they haven’t spoken about this and there hasn’t been a sorry. And so I think there was this constant thing.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But for me, I can’t speak to that because my grandmother was never that to me. And so I had the patience that obviously my mom or my aunts necessarily didn’t have with her, but I did. And so, I think what I learned was that, to view my grandmother’s life with compassion and now that she’s older, to confront her or to talk to her and see, listen, maybe it’s time you forgive yourself for what you didn’t do and think about the things that you did do. And so I think my-the most biggest thing of spending time with someone that’s elderly and someone that confronting their mortality is making sure that they make amends with the guilt or the shame that they carry. And so I’m happy to say that I was helping my grandma gravitate toward that and that I able to honor, ‘You were on survival mode, it’s not your fault. And look, look how far you made it. Look how you shifted. And yes you fucked up. There’s moments that you fuck up as a human life is not that. But I want you to tell you that at the end of the day, the impact in your legacy, the way people speak about your character, the way people thank you for the things that you’ve done for them, it’s very dynamic. So you also need to be kind to yourself.’ And so I think that was the biggest thing to be able to look at my grandma in the complexities of the things where she did mess up but also the compassion of saying you did the best that you could with what you had. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you for sharing that. Profe Anita, I want to ask you sort of the inverse of that, especially because we started this conversation with you talking about the very real sensation of this is not how you thought your life was going to go. So what is something you learned about yourself now that you are Honey and, uh, you’ve been doing this for almost 20 years. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anita Tijerina Revilla: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think the thing that I learned about myself was that I had to figure out a way to take care of myself and my body, mind and spirit even while I was taking care of everyone else. Like, I even before I got the kids, I already was putting other people’s needs before my own. I was a people pleaser, always wanted everybody to love me and to accept me, especially because I grew up thinking I was unlovable. I, you know, grew up different. I have a different hand and a lot of people bullied me for my hand and I thought I would grow up to not have love. And so I think with the kids, I realized like I have to figure out what I need to heal myself because I want to be a parent that parents from a space of healing, that parents from a place of liberation versus fear. I was living my life through my mom’s trauma, and so I had to figure out how to heal, release her trauma and heal my own trauma. And I don’t think I would have gotten as far as I have without the kids. They hold me accountable. They use my words against me. They throw my feminism in my face, and they say they’re not as easily… convinced when I tell them something is good or bad. They challenged me and I like my mom taught me I taught them you have a voice\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ah, you have a voice. Thats so powerful. I want to thank each of your for opening up and being as vulnerable as you have been on this very difficult topic. But I think it’s helping me, its helping other folks that are on the precipice of this journey for themselves. So I can’t thank you enough for taking the time to go in depth for what this experience has been like for you. So I want to thank you each for that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I want it to our listeners that if you want to follow our guests, I will put all of their socials, where you can find them online, all of the written works, that will all be in the show notes. And if you wanna communicate with us as a Hyphenation show… You can send us an email at HYP at KQED.org so we can know what you want to talk about on our program. But again, just want to say thanks to our guests and thanks to you for being here for this chat. Until next time. Hasta Lleugo.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Credits:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hyphenación is a KQED Studios Production. It is produced by Ana De Almeida Amaral, Alex Tran, and me, Xorje Olivares. Chris Hambrick is our editor. Mixing and mastering by Jim Bennett and Christopher Beale. Jen Chien is executive producer and KQED’s director of podcasts. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. Special thanks to Megan Tan, Martina Castro, and Paulina Velasco for their development support. Thank you to Maha Sanad and Alana Walker for their audience engagement support, to podcast operations manager Katie Sprenger, Video Operations manager Vivian Morales, and our chief content officer Holly Kernan. Okay mi gente, cuídense.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There’s been much debate amongst Latinos about the proper term to use when addressing the community at large. Who exactly is included in the word Latino? Who is left out of their own demographic based on appearances or perceptions? This week on Hyphenación, host Xorje Olivares gets together with Maria Burgos and Ian Paget, two Latinos who feel like their belonging in this group is often questioned because of the way they look.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC2603558631&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Watch this episode on Youtube\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWnoGBdpaRo\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Guests\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ian Paget (\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@ianpaget_?lang=en\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">TikTok\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> / \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/ianpaget/?hl=en\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Instagram\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> /\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/535UJWr55P9nfgiBAyMEWd?si=42abb893eb6741d3\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Tres Leches Podcast\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">)\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Maria Burgos (\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/mamapoetress/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Instagram\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">)\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Want to give us feedback on the series or have an idea to share? Shoot us an email at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"mailto:hyp@kqed.org\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">hyp@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003chr>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares, Host:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Hey, what’s going on? Welcome to Hyphenación where conversation and culture meet. I’m Xorje Andres Olivares. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, you can’t see me right now, but trust me when I say– I look Latino! Or, I look like what a stereotype of a Latino looks like… Ok, let me just describe: I’ve got these bushy cejas, I’ve gotta slightly full stash, dark brown eyes, a buzz cut, and a cross necklace. I have gotten, at times, Indian, Middle Eastern… but mostly? “Dude, that guy is straight up Latino”. But why exactly is that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because intentionally or not, we all make snap judgments about people’s race or ethnicity upon seeing them. And I’m pairing race and ethnicity together, a lot like these government forums that ask ‘Hispanic or Latino?’ But that’s a huge category that the United States has created that now lumps people like me, who’s Mexican-American, with someone who has a background that’s, say, Argentinian or Cuban.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">People who have been studying race for a long time, specifically race, will be the first to say that it’s all made up, guys. This is a social construct. There’s no singular Latino identity or image. Then there’s people who will say, well, they’re speaking Spanish. They’ve got ties to the Americas. Duh, they are Latino. And then you have those who will, say if they’re brown, they’re Mexican. Which, not the time or place… \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But when there are 65 million Latinos living in the U.S., we can’t all be Mexican or brown or Spanish speakers for that matter. So who are we? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Today, on the very first episode of Hyphenación, I want to ask the question, who gets to be Latino in the U.S.? Who decides who’s Latino? This is Hyphenación, where conversation and cultura meet. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>So you already know I look Mexican-American, and honestly, I’m f*cking proud of that.\u003c/span>\u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m proud of being Mexican.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m proud of where I’m from, which is South Texas. And if I have to admit, the thing that’s most South Texas about me is I am a flour tortilla guy. I am team flour tortilla you guys, which I know is gonna piss off a lot of people, but ni modo. And on today’s show, I’m excited because each of our guests also comes from a Latino hotspot.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like my first guest who is actor performer, Ian Paget, who is the cohost of the Tres Leches podcast. He spent a lot of his time in Miami. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Ian Paget, Guest:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Hola, Hi\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ian, thank you so much for joining us today. So I want to ask Ian, what is the most Miami thing about you?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, last night it was my accent. Um, because \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> When did she come out? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, you know, it’s funny, like technically it’s specifically, I’ll give it to you. Hello. How, oh my God, how are you? That was happening a lot yesterday. Like just because I was, I was with my best friend Juan and then Johnny and like, we’re all from Miami. And then my friend Rafa was there too. And like, there’s just this like way that all of a sudden the L’s kind of turn a little bit like that, which is crazy. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, I don’t, you know, so that’s like a specific thing that happened when I am around other people who make me feel like home, you know, like it brings out a home in me. But I’d guess like the most Miami thing about me would be like my love of cafecito. Like I love cafe, it’s like when I go back to Miami, I’m like, ‘hi mom, hi dad,’ I’m going to the coffee shop. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nice to see you, priorities. We will hold space for that. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I also wanna welcome poet and writer, Maria Burgos, who was born and raised in the Washington Heights neighborhood of New York City. Maria, what would you say is the most New York thing about you? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Burgos, Guest: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wow. I would say just be talking very fast in both Spanish and English. It’s like you ask me something and I’m like, what do you mean? What do you want? No, I got you. And sometimes you’ll get spanglish. And if you get it, you get if you don’t then, you know, context clues. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>Duolingo.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>Right. Period \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It will all work out with the facial expressions, with the gestures, with movements. It’s a language all in and of itself. Well, I want to thank you both for joining me today. And I want us to start by asking this question of how we each identify culturally. Because for me, if you go to my Instagram bio and pretty much every bio, I’ll say puro Tejano, because yes, I’m Mexican-American, but it’s so specific to Texas and like 90s Texas. So, I would be wearing the Selena purple jumpsuit right now if I could, because that’s how deep I am in it. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So Maria, if you could say how you identify culturally, what would it be? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos:\u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Culturally, I would say Afro Latina. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Ay! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>And if you want to get specific, if people need a visual, I would un \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mangú con los tres golpes\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Just like that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Work.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">With the fried cheese, the eggs, the whole thing, the onions on top, that is me. That’s what you’re gonna get.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wait, what was it called? Un mangú? Is that what you said? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, con tres golpes. Tres golpes is the meal when you go to a Dominican-style order. Tres golpe. Fried egg, cheese, and salami. And then you make sure you have the onions on top. So it’s filling. You get a little bit of everything. You’ll feel productive after and strong. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I love that we both said a beverage and food, by the way, like our like our first opening things were like. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">the love language of the \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m like, yes, cafecito immediately, no matter what, wherever I am, you need a nice cup of coffee for sure. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. And Ian, what would you say for you? If your identification culturally, what would it be? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget:\u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ooh, uh, Like funny enough with like your intro, what we’re discussing today, it’s like, I actually think a lot of people don’t even think I’m Latino. Um, but I’m half Honduran. So my mom is from Honduras and then my dad’s he’s, you know, his parents were German. So, um, yeah. And, and then being raised in Miami from like 11 and on, you know, it’s like that. that is a big part of my upbringing and culture or whatever. But yeah, I’m half Honduran. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>Nice. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Wow. Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I love it. I mean, yes, Maria, you did use Afro Latina, but for the most parts, we didn’t immediately say just the, the alone word of Latino, because that word really does become this umbrella term that wants to encompass everybody and anybody that might have some similarities. And there’s also this phrasing of the Latino community, which the community part sometimes upsets people. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But I want to ask you, Ian, about even the language of Latino community. make you feel any certain way?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, it’s funny. I’ve never, I’ve never had own my Latinidad more than in the last couple years, really, because everything is like, well, what are you, who are you? And then if you’re in media, it’s just helpful, people wanna know, and anyway, but I bring this up because I think growing up, I was just like me, and I had my mom, and when you’re in Miami, you don’t really have to say you are part of the Latino community, Or like, I don’t have to wear the badge of that it just like was so all around me Jewish Cubans like, like everyone was around but that’s also specific to my upbringing. And Maria, I would say the same for you\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Absolutely\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I’m guessing if you’re from the Heights like it’s just…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">100%. I grew up in a very Dominican household. Again, I grew up in Washington Heights. So like, Salsa is my favorite genre. I grew up listening to that Bachata. There’s always liveliness. Waking up at 7am and hearing your neighbors like blasting Bachata to get their day started, like, it was very Dominican. I went to school nearby, like elementary and junior high was close by. And then when I went to high school, it’s like, oh, I’m like loud and being myself but like other people are like, well, what? Why is she speaking Spanish? Why? I’m confused. Like, I want to know more about her. Is she Latina? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s just interesting, like to come out of your space and realize, like, oh, I may have to explain. Sometimes I choose not to just because we should, you know, accept people for who they are, accept that we come from different walks of life. Like Ian, he’s. grew up in Miami, but you’re half Honduran and your father has German descent. So like, you know, this is what a lot of us are in the U.S. We’re just mixed up with a whole bunch of different things, right? So I sometimes find myself being like, you know what, receive me how you wanna receive me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ian, what would you say are some of the main things you get confused for? Cause I mentioned at the top for me, it’s Indian, Middle Eastern, which nothing wrong with that. I, I love that those are some of the comparison points I get, but it just doesn’t resonate with me. What are some of these that you’ve had to field over the years?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I definitely get, I get a lot of European. So like it’s European, a specific-sometimes people are like, you know, are you Italian? Are you, you Jewish is even, you know, in its own race, obviously. But like, I always get like a little bit of Spanish, like, oh, are French? Like those are kind of where it sticks. So yeah I’ve gotten like everything over the pond mostly across the pond excuse me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And you Maria? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wow. I’ve been called Ethiopian a lot. That’s a main thing. They’re like, Oh, you have to be Ethiopian. And I’ve had several Ethiopian people speak to me in their dialect and I’m like, ‘Uh, no, but thank you. I’m so flattered,’ Sometimes just, you know, Black American. Some people are like, are you Puerto Rican? Are you like…so many different little things. than when some, usually it’s. question when I start to speak Spanish. It’s when like everyone freezes and they’re like um wow your, your Spanish is so great like you have an accent and I’m sure Ian you get the same thing and you’re like \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Funny that you say that is mine is mine because i don’t look Hispanic, people don’t speak to me in Spanish right so that is not usually the first thing that people notice. This one’s a gag–people ask me like where are you from with like a little bit of a squint in their eye when they see me dance. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oooohh, that one!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">it’s literally what happens like I’ll be out in spaces and the way I move and the way I dance people are like where are you from? That’s literally the question that sometimes happens. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re like, those hits do not lie. They sure don’t. That’s happened to me too, where they’re like wow, you dance. Uh-huh. And I’m like, I sure do, honey. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Put on some aventura, some Elivs Crespo, Celia Cruz, I’m here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, and I am here. Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m curious about the distinction between somebody questioning you about who you are and somebody somehow telling you like, no, no. But where are you really from? Because that’s not a question. That’s somebody telling you to correct yourself, to give them the answer they want. So Maria, has there been a moment where you’re just like, somebody’s telling me something that I do not want to hear anymore. for watching. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Every day, unfortunately, still living in New York, I get it very often. I remember, for example, years ago, working, I was working as a, I was doing a side job with like banquet serving, and I was talking to one of my colleagues in Spanish, he was, I believe Mexican, and we were just chatting back and forth, adonde ponemos los vasos, adonde putemos los platos, and this man behind me who we were serving. He like waited for me to finish what I was doing, and then was like, I’m so sorry, where are you from? Because you speak Spanish so well, and my wife is Argentinian, and like, I mean, you know, it sounds a little bit different, and I’m not sure, but it was like accusatory, very much like, did you go to school to learn Spanish so while, kind of? And I said, ‘I’m Dominican,’ And granted the proper term is Dominican American, now my parents are Dominican, but I like to be very proud and say I’m Dominican and have people sit with that. Sit with that and hold on to that and figure it out. And he was very, like, taken aback that I was very firm and like, I’m Dominican. And he’s like, yeah, but I’m like, I’m a Dominican, is there anything else I could do for you? And he will sort of just like “Oop.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ian, what is the most recent moment where you had to force somebody to sit with your answer of like, not only am I Latino, I’m Honduran, Honduran-American, just bye. Like end of conversation, punto final, move on.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">um oh my god you know i i don’t really experience a lot of moments like that because to me when i get to share that i’m latino to me it’s like it’s such a special like bet you didn’t know this\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">also, as I get to answer and tell them— then they’re like super surprised, which I love, cause I’m a show off and I love to surprise people. But I wonder if I was in their head, I wonder if they’re like, oh my God, that’s so cool. I’m literally making something up right now, but this is fun to do hypothetical. But I wonder, if they are like, oh my god, that is great, because I’m white passing. And so to them, they’re like of you’re white passing, look at, oh my gosh, that amazing, but you’re Hispanic. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Like something that I have dealt with my entire life, especially leaving my hometown of Eagle Pass, Texas is, oh, this dude’s brown, can’t really hide. In Mexican saying, it’s like el nopal en la frente, where you have the cactus so big on your forehead, you can’t hide that you’re Mexican. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I, it just hit me. One of the other things that I think is the most obvious thing about me is my queerness is like that I’m gay. It’s just always been… I think maybe that’s another reason why my Latina that has never been a thing that like, obviously I’m white passing, blah, blah. But the most obviously thing about me is like, that’s a gay person. I’ve just never really been able to hide it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Anyway, that’s like a separate thing, but\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No,it’s important\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, no, it’s something that it’s absolutely important because it gets to this idea of presentation and the politicization of presentation, like some of the things we can control and some of things that are completely out of it, so I actually want to take a little break because when we come back, obviously there is this, this perception of Latina that that gets to more than what we want Latina to be like people are making choices for us and putting targets on our back because of it. So how do we actually live in that society and in that scenario? So we’re going to talk about that when we get back.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I want to get a little bit deeper into this notion of Latinidad and others’ perception of our identity. And I’m going to do so by sharing this story real quick. So when I was a freshman in high school, my band took a trip to Disney world from f*cking South Texas. We took a charter bus all the way to Orlando, which I don’t suggest. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How long was that ride? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares:\u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Girl, it was a day and a half, we were poor border kids we couldn’t fly we had to pay for a charter bus. And so if that wasn’t bad enough after having been on a charter bus for a day-and-a-half we arrive at the happiest place on earth and we’re in line for the Dumbo ride and I was the designated leader for some reason. And so we’re in line and the attendant asks like, “Aye how many people are in your team?” so we can like such all up together and me trying to be a good leader, I turn around starting to count people, but I think he mistook what I was doing. So he said, “Oh, uh, cuantas personas, groupo…” \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Burgos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> What?! Oh my god!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">and the fact that this…\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Paget:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> …in las escuelas…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> …in la Bibliotecta…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aye, aye, aye.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares:\u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And the fact that this happened 20 plus years ago, and it’s still not haunts me, but like, it’s still is front of mind for me to remember says that how people receive us is really critical. So I’m curious for you, Maria, if you have a moment, like a standout moment for you where someone was like, this is who I think, or this is my assumption of you right off the bat. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This one’s very interesting so we talked we touched a little bit about colorism in latinidad and um even presenting so for the longest you know my i wore my hair straight and i had a certain esthetic to me just because of course in a lot of hispanic households you feel like you have to present a certain way to be known as latina or latino Um, but then I went through a transition where I went natural and this is my hair now.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I moved back into my childhood apartment because we’re in rent control in New York. I mean, um, a lot of my neighbors that saw me grow up, they would always speak to me in Spanish. They knew they know me. They know my mom, you know, they know my family. So they always spoke to me in Spanish and my neighbor who hadn’t seen me in a while and saw the change was speaking to me in English as if he was meeting me for the first time. So he was like, “oh, how are you my friend Maria? You look good,” and I was like… ¿Cómo está vecino? and he was still like English. And I was like, this is a very weird exchange. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, so he continued in English even after you addressed him in Spanish? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes!\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it was kind of like, okay, clearly you don’t know how to receive me right now because I don’t know, I guess the change somehow made you feel like, okay, she’s not Latina anymore. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">but that’s so interesting that like you’re straightening your like the straightening of the hair to me would be like whatever it’s it’s hiding more of your culture and who you are and then to go more to your naturalness and then for him to speak english that feels a little backwards \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s interesting, right? You’re like, you would think with the straight hair, you would not, you’ll be like, oh, she’s not. Cause I feel like I look way more Latina now than ever.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But unfortunately in certain communities where the beauty standard is a certain, or they want it to be a certain thing. You know, that’s why I mentioned colorism. Like in my school, I did grow up with a lot of girls that were lighter than me and had like a very long hair and the light eyes. So I felt different, but not really, because I also saw me in the community. But when I made this change. I when he yeah, it was a very interesting moment. I was standing there like this is very uncomfortable, but okay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I think it’s so interesting how many, like who exactly is okay with putting you in a, in an uncomfortable position and being okay to stand in this discomfort with you and like, I don’t know, there’s, there was a weird ownership that needs to be taken in that, but Ian, do you have a similar situation where, uh, especially in the line of work that you do, where somebody clocked you or, or made you feel differently about how you actually are in the world?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">it hasn’t happened in that instance, like the way Maria just described, but like, I would say it’s happened in a, in a way that like the work I get. So like, I, I bring this example up because it’s like, it was, it was the first time I noticed it, but I got to do West Side Story when I was right out of college, and I was… \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And if you don’t know the show, it’s like Sharks and Jets, Puerto Ricans against the Americans. And I was cast as one of the Jets on the American side and one of weirdest things about being in a show like that where it’s about two gangs who are against each other and what, you know, like a completely different culture, this and that is like, when we would do dance at the gym, I, the whole time was like, I should be on that side with the Sharks. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I bring this up because like, I think sometimes I, again, I love how I’ve experienced the world and all of that, but like, I have had a little bit of like a resentment towards like, you know, I don’t know, the ether around just like, oh, like, because my last name isn’t Ramirez, which is, if I went with like my mom’s maiden name, Ian Ramirez I think would automatically change how people, like you said, receive me. Yeah, it’s, I think it’s the opposite. It’s the I wish I was seen more Latino than I am. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I will say that for a lot of us, this this idea of what Latina that is and who is Latino is about media representation and the narratives that are there. And unfortunately, kind of going back to the face and the name that I have, I remember when I was in college, and I was studying broadcast journalism, that all of my professors immediately when I was getting ready to go to into the workforce, they said, “So you’re doing Telemundo, right? You’re doing Univision?” And I was like, my Spanish is not that great, but just the implication that if I was going to be successful in this field, I was immediately going to have to go to the Latino side of things.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, so I’m curious, starting with you, Ian, about just when somebody does recognize that you are Latino, the more typecasting aspect of it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think that’s why I’m really excited to have these conversations is because I don’t think there’s enough story and storytelling being told of like the white passing Latino, like, or like that, that, that it comes- Yeah, it’s just the…\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Burgos:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just the spectrum, the spectrum in general of Latino- the variation- We don’t look like one thing and accept that accept it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. And that because I don’t have that last name, does that mean I don’t get to tell my version of like, like Latin story, which is very much embedded in my, my life story. You know what I mean? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Burgos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Exactly.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>And I love that you talk about, it’s about the stories that we make and the stories that we write. And Maria, as a writer, who incorporates a lot of your identity in what you do and in a lot into your performance. Was that an easy decision from day one? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos:\u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Absolutely. In a way, because I, again, growing up and getting older, I think Ian mentioned this, you get older and then that’s when you notice that you are a little bit different because you’re a little outside of your community. I was so tired of like fighting people on my own identity. And I want to talk about that all the time. And Ian is bringing up so many good points where, like, What is a Latino to you? Why are we, we’re living, why do we have to live within the identity as someone made up for us?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Like in movies, in novellas that my mom watches. For the longest, I’m like, oh, are these white people like, you know, acting like Mexicans and it was actually Mexicans, you know what I mean? But I’m like, but I meet Mexicans and they look like a variation of different things. I meet South Americans, I meet Dominicans, I meet Puerto Ricans and I see a spectrum of different people. \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So when I do get met with the question or when I met with like the scrutiny of like, are you sure? I’m like, well, what am I supposed to look like to you? Because apparently you have the definition in your dictionary of what I’m supposed to like.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And like touching on the little bit of acting that I’ve done before, I always get met with like not looking Latina enough and to them it means the straight hair. I have to be maybe a little light skinned. I have certain features and to me that’s confusing because I’m like what? Again, I have met people, there are people in my family that look like Ian and to me I immediately meet them and I’m not seeing like…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: I need to meet them\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Right. Ian is my cousin. Oh my god. He can really be my cousin. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh my god, what if this was like a find your roots? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Laughter]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No kidding. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, so in my work, I always want to be proud and I always just want to speak to the person that is trying to figure out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like, you know, they don’t feel Latino enough or they don’ feel American enough or whatever it is. It’s like, you are a hyphen and that is okay. Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you for the call back to the, to, it is, it’s all about hyphenated identity.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I want to end by asking each of you, what’s your favorite part about being Latino? And I’ll say that for me, there’s something beautiful about just hearing Spanish and understanding either all of it, a little bit of it. That we have this energy\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like this intimacy that happens, this like, yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s something beautiful about that communication. So I’m wondering for you, Maria, what is your favorite thing about it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was going to say la comida, but I would like to say always la comida from any, any Latino communities, countries is the food is always going to hit, it’s always going to hit. There’s always gonna be a special dish. But I will also say it’s just our spiciness, that spiciness to show up in the world. Like, we show up. We always show up, we always, like. you know, whether we don’t present however we’re supposed to present, there’s something about us that another Latina person would be like, that is my people right over there, and I’m gonna go chat with them. So yeah, I would say our spicy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ian, what is yours? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, I would say there’s a, an immense amount of, uh, heart that I feel like, and I, when you ask like, what’s my favorite part, I think about like my mom a lot, right? And like, because she, to me is my, she’s like my access to that every day. And the way she and my aunts and yes, and like my my Latin side of the family if there’s just such a there’s such a heart for like, you are always family. And that’s how I feel whenever I’m, that’s why I felt speaking to both of you that like immediately there’s just this shorthand, this like way that we get each other. So I guess it would be like the heart, the heart of the community, you know? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nice. I love that we’re now like primos. Well we found out that Ian is probably Maria’s primo, but I’m also included in this family, this huge growing Hyphenación family.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So thank you both for joining me for this really in-depth, fantastic conversation. I want to tell our listeners, if you want to follow either of my guests, just go to the show notes and you’ll have all of their information, including how to listen to Ian’s podcast, Tres Leches. And also, if you want to share your thoughts on what should be a topic on Hyphenación, be sure to email us at hyp@kqed.org. ¡Hasta Lleugo! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hyphenación is a KQED Studios Production. It is produced by Ana De Almeida Amaral, Alex Tran, and me, Xorje Olivares.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chris Hambrick is our editor. Jen Chien is executive producer and KQED’s director of podcasts. Mixing and mastering by Christopher Beale.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Special thanks to Megan Tan, Martina Castro, and Paulina Velasco for their development support. Thank you to Maha Sanad and Alana Walker for their audience engagement support, to podcast operations manager Katie Sprenger, Video Operations manager Vivian Morales, and our chief content officer Holly Kernan. Okay mi gente, cuídense.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There’s been much debate amongst Latinos about the proper term to use when addressing the community at large. Who exactly is included in the word Latino? Who is left out of their own demographic based on appearances or perceptions? This week on Hyphenación, host Xorje Olivares gets together with Maria Burgos and Ian Paget, two Latinos who feel like their belonging in this group is often questioned because of the way they look.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC2603558631&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Watch this episode on Youtube\u003c/h2>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/aWnoGBdpaRo'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/aWnoGBdpaRo'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Guests\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ian Paget (\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@ianpaget_?lang=en\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">TikTok\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> / \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/ianpaget/?hl=en\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Instagram\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> /\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/535UJWr55P9nfgiBAyMEWd?si=42abb893eb6741d3\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Tres Leches Podcast\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">)\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Maria Burgos (\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/mamapoetress/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Instagram\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">)\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Want to give us feedback on the series or have an idea to share? Shoot us an email at \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"mailto:hyp@kqed.org\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">hyp@kqed.org\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003chr>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares, Host:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Hey, what’s going on? Welcome to Hyphenación where conversation and culture meet. I’m Xorje Andres Olivares. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, you can’t see me right now, but trust me when I say– I look Latino! Or, I look like what a stereotype of a Latino looks like… Ok, let me just describe: I’ve got these bushy cejas, I’ve gotta slightly full stash, dark brown eyes, a buzz cut, and a cross necklace. I have gotten, at times, Indian, Middle Eastern… but mostly? “Dude, that guy is straight up Latino”. But why exactly is that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because intentionally or not, we all make snap judgments about people’s race or ethnicity upon seeing them. And I’m pairing race and ethnicity together, a lot like these government forums that ask ‘Hispanic or Latino?’ But that’s a huge category that the United States has created that now lumps people like me, who’s Mexican-American, with someone who has a background that’s, say, Argentinian or Cuban.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">People who have been studying race for a long time, specifically race, will be the first to say that it’s all made up, guys. This is a social construct. There’s no singular Latino identity or image. Then there’s people who will say, well, they’re speaking Spanish. They’ve got ties to the Americas. Duh, they are Latino. And then you have those who will, say if they’re brown, they’re Mexican. Which, not the time or place… \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But when there are 65 million Latinos living in the U.S., we can’t all be Mexican or brown or Spanish speakers for that matter. So who are we? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Today, on the very first episode of Hyphenación, I want to ask the question, who gets to be Latino in the U.S.? Who decides who’s Latino? This is Hyphenación, where conversation and cultura meet. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>So you already know I look Mexican-American, and honestly, I’m f*cking proud of that.\u003c/span>\u003cb> \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m proud of being Mexican.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m proud of where I’m from, which is South Texas. And if I have to admit, the thing that’s most South Texas about me is I am a flour tortilla guy. I am team flour tortilla you guys, which I know is gonna piss off a lot of people, but ni modo. And on today’s show, I’m excited because each of our guests also comes from a Latino hotspot.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like my first guest who is actor performer, Ian Paget, who is the cohost of the Tres Leches podcast. He spent a lot of his time in Miami. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Ian Paget, Guest:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Hola, Hi\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ian, thank you so much for joining us today. So I want to ask Ian, what is the most Miami thing about you?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, last night it was my accent. Um, because \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> When did she come out? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, you know, it’s funny, like technically it’s specifically, I’ll give it to you. Hello. How, oh my God, how are you? That was happening a lot yesterday. Like just because I was, I was with my best friend Juan and then Johnny and like, we’re all from Miami. And then my friend Rafa was there too. And like, there’s just this like way that all of a sudden the L’s kind of turn a little bit like that, which is crazy. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, I don’t, you know, so that’s like a specific thing that happened when I am around other people who make me feel like home, you know, like it brings out a home in me. But I’d guess like the most Miami thing about me would be like my love of cafecito. Like I love cafe, it’s like when I go back to Miami, I’m like, ‘hi mom, hi dad,’ I’m going to the coffee shop. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nice to see you, priorities. We will hold space for that. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I also wanna welcome poet and writer, Maria Burgos, who was born and raised in the Washington Heights neighborhood of New York City. Maria, what would you say is the most New York thing about you? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Burgos, Guest: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wow. I would say just be talking very fast in both Spanish and English. It’s like you ask me something and I’m like, what do you mean? What do you want? No, I got you. And sometimes you’ll get spanglish. And if you get it, you get if you don’t then, you know, context clues. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>Duolingo.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>Right. Period \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It will all work out with the facial expressions, with the gestures, with movements. It’s a language all in and of itself. Well, I want to thank you both for joining me today. And I want us to start by asking this question of how we each identify culturally. Because for me, if you go to my Instagram bio and pretty much every bio, I’ll say puro Tejano, because yes, I’m Mexican-American, but it’s so specific to Texas and like 90s Texas. So, I would be wearing the Selena purple jumpsuit right now if I could, because that’s how deep I am in it. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So Maria, if you could say how you identify culturally, what would it be? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos:\u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Culturally, I would say Afro Latina. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Ay! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>And if you want to get specific, if people need a visual, I would un \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mangú con los tres golpes\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Just like that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Work.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">With the fried cheese, the eggs, the whole thing, the onions on top, that is me. That’s what you’re gonna get.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wait, what was it called? Un mangú? Is that what you said? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, con tres golpes. Tres golpes is the meal when you go to a Dominican-style order. Tres golpe. Fried egg, cheese, and salami. And then you make sure you have the onions on top. So it’s filling. You get a little bit of everything. You’ll feel productive after and strong. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I love that we both said a beverage and food, by the way, like our like our first opening things were like. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">the love language of the \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m like, yes, cafecito immediately, no matter what, wherever I am, you need a nice cup of coffee for sure. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. And Ian, what would you say for you? If your identification culturally, what would it be? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget:\u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ooh, uh, Like funny enough with like your intro, what we’re discussing today, it’s like, I actually think a lot of people don’t even think I’m Latino. Um, but I’m half Honduran. So my mom is from Honduras and then my dad’s he’s, you know, his parents were German. So, um, yeah. And, and then being raised in Miami from like 11 and on, you know, it’s like that. that is a big part of my upbringing and culture or whatever. But yeah, I’m half Honduran. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>Nice. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Wow. Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I love it. I mean, yes, Maria, you did use Afro Latina, but for the most parts, we didn’t immediately say just the, the alone word of Latino, because that word really does become this umbrella term that wants to encompass everybody and anybody that might have some similarities. And there’s also this phrasing of the Latino community, which the community part sometimes upsets people. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But I want to ask you, Ian, about even the language of Latino community. make you feel any certain way?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, it’s funny. I’ve never, I’ve never had own my Latinidad more than in the last couple years, really, because everything is like, well, what are you, who are you? And then if you’re in media, it’s just helpful, people wanna know, and anyway, but I bring this up because I think growing up, I was just like me, and I had my mom, and when you’re in Miami, you don’t really have to say you are part of the Latino community, Or like, I don’t have to wear the badge of that it just like was so all around me Jewish Cubans like, like everyone was around but that’s also specific to my upbringing. And Maria, I would say the same for you\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Absolutely\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I’m guessing if you’re from the Heights like it’s just…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">100%. I grew up in a very Dominican household. Again, I grew up in Washington Heights. So like, Salsa is my favorite genre. I grew up listening to that Bachata. There’s always liveliness. Waking up at 7am and hearing your neighbors like blasting Bachata to get their day started, like, it was very Dominican. I went to school nearby, like elementary and junior high was close by. And then when I went to high school, it’s like, oh, I’m like loud and being myself but like other people are like, well, what? Why is she speaking Spanish? Why? I’m confused. Like, I want to know more about her. Is she Latina? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s just interesting, like to come out of your space and realize, like, oh, I may have to explain. Sometimes I choose not to just because we should, you know, accept people for who they are, accept that we come from different walks of life. Like Ian, he’s. grew up in Miami, but you’re half Honduran and your father has German descent. So like, you know, this is what a lot of us are in the U.S. We’re just mixed up with a whole bunch of different things, right? So I sometimes find myself being like, you know what, receive me how you wanna receive me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ian, what would you say are some of the main things you get confused for? Cause I mentioned at the top for me, it’s Indian, Middle Eastern, which nothing wrong with that. I, I love that those are some of the comparison points I get, but it just doesn’t resonate with me. What are some of these that you’ve had to field over the years?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I definitely get, I get a lot of European. So like it’s European, a specific-sometimes people are like, you know, are you Italian? Are you, you Jewish is even, you know, in its own race, obviously. But like, I always get like a little bit of Spanish, like, oh, are French? Like those are kind of where it sticks. So yeah I’ve gotten like everything over the pond mostly across the pond excuse me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And you Maria? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wow. I’ve been called Ethiopian a lot. That’s a main thing. They’re like, Oh, you have to be Ethiopian. And I’ve had several Ethiopian people speak to me in their dialect and I’m like, ‘Uh, no, but thank you. I’m so flattered,’ Sometimes just, you know, Black American. Some people are like, are you Puerto Rican? Are you like…so many different little things. than when some, usually it’s. question when I start to speak Spanish. It’s when like everyone freezes and they’re like um wow your, your Spanish is so great like you have an accent and I’m sure Ian you get the same thing and you’re like \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Funny that you say that is mine is mine because i don’t look Hispanic, people don’t speak to me in Spanish right so that is not usually the first thing that people notice. This one’s a gag–people ask me like where are you from with like a little bit of a squint in their eye when they see me dance. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oooohh, that one!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">it’s literally what happens like I’ll be out in spaces and the way I move and the way I dance people are like where are you from? That’s literally the question that sometimes happens. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re like, those hits do not lie. They sure don’t. That’s happened to me too, where they’re like wow, you dance. Uh-huh. And I’m like, I sure do, honey. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Put on some aventura, some Elivs Crespo, Celia Cruz, I’m here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, and I am here. Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m curious about the distinction between somebody questioning you about who you are and somebody somehow telling you like, no, no. But where are you really from? Because that’s not a question. That’s somebody telling you to correct yourself, to give them the answer they want. So Maria, has there been a moment where you’re just like, somebody’s telling me something that I do not want to hear anymore. for watching. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Every day, unfortunately, still living in New York, I get it very often. I remember, for example, years ago, working, I was working as a, I was doing a side job with like banquet serving, and I was talking to one of my colleagues in Spanish, he was, I believe Mexican, and we were just chatting back and forth, adonde ponemos los vasos, adonde putemos los platos, and this man behind me who we were serving. He like waited for me to finish what I was doing, and then was like, I’m so sorry, where are you from? Because you speak Spanish so well, and my wife is Argentinian, and like, I mean, you know, it sounds a little bit different, and I’m not sure, but it was like accusatory, very much like, did you go to school to learn Spanish so while, kind of? And I said, ‘I’m Dominican,’ And granted the proper term is Dominican American, now my parents are Dominican, but I like to be very proud and say I’m Dominican and have people sit with that. Sit with that and hold on to that and figure it out. And he was very, like, taken aback that I was very firm and like, I’m Dominican. And he’s like, yeah, but I’m like, I’m a Dominican, is there anything else I could do for you? And he will sort of just like “Oop.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ian, what is the most recent moment where you had to force somebody to sit with your answer of like, not only am I Latino, I’m Honduran, Honduran-American, just bye. Like end of conversation, punto final, move on.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">um oh my god you know i i don’t really experience a lot of moments like that because to me when i get to share that i’m latino to me it’s like it’s such a special like bet you didn’t know this\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">also, as I get to answer and tell them— then they’re like super surprised, which I love, cause I’m a show off and I love to surprise people. But I wonder if I was in their head, I wonder if they’re like, oh my God, that’s so cool. I’m literally making something up right now, but this is fun to do hypothetical. But I wonder, if they are like, oh my god, that is great, because I’m white passing. And so to them, they’re like of you’re white passing, look at, oh my gosh, that amazing, but you’re Hispanic. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Like something that I have dealt with my entire life, especially leaving my hometown of Eagle Pass, Texas is, oh, this dude’s brown, can’t really hide. In Mexican saying, it’s like el nopal en la frente, where you have the cactus so big on your forehead, you can’t hide that you’re Mexican. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I, it just hit me. One of the other things that I think is the most obvious thing about me is my queerness is like that I’m gay. It’s just always been… I think maybe that’s another reason why my Latina that has never been a thing that like, obviously I’m white passing, blah, blah. But the most obviously thing about me is like, that’s a gay person. I’ve just never really been able to hide it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Anyway, that’s like a separate thing, but\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No,it’s important\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, no, it’s something that it’s absolutely important because it gets to this idea of presentation and the politicization of presentation, like some of the things we can control and some of things that are completely out of it, so I actually want to take a little break because when we come back, obviously there is this, this perception of Latina that that gets to more than what we want Latina to be like people are making choices for us and putting targets on our back because of it. So how do we actually live in that society and in that scenario? So we’re going to talk about that when we get back.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I want to get a little bit deeper into this notion of Latinidad and others’ perception of our identity. And I’m going to do so by sharing this story real quick. So when I was a freshman in high school, my band took a trip to Disney world from f*cking South Texas. We took a charter bus all the way to Orlando, which I don’t suggest. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How long was that ride? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares:\u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Girl, it was a day and a half, we were poor border kids we couldn’t fly we had to pay for a charter bus. And so if that wasn’t bad enough after having been on a charter bus for a day-and-a-half we arrive at the happiest place on earth and we’re in line for the Dumbo ride and I was the designated leader for some reason. And so we’re in line and the attendant asks like, “Aye how many people are in your team?” so we can like such all up together and me trying to be a good leader, I turn around starting to count people, but I think he mistook what I was doing. So he said, “Oh, uh, cuantas personas, groupo…” \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Burgos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> What?! Oh my god!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">and the fact that this…\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Paget:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> …in las escuelas…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> …in la Bibliotecta…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Aye, aye, aye.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares:\u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And the fact that this happened 20 plus years ago, and it’s still not haunts me, but like, it’s still is front of mind for me to remember says that how people receive us is really critical. So I’m curious for you, Maria, if you have a moment, like a standout moment for you where someone was like, this is who I think, or this is my assumption of you right off the bat. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This one’s very interesting so we talked we touched a little bit about colorism in latinidad and um even presenting so for the longest you know my i wore my hair straight and i had a certain esthetic to me just because of course in a lot of hispanic households you feel like you have to present a certain way to be known as latina or latino Um, but then I went through a transition where I went natural and this is my hair now.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I moved back into my childhood apartment because we’re in rent control in New York. I mean, um, a lot of my neighbors that saw me grow up, they would always speak to me in Spanish. They knew they know me. They know my mom, you know, they know my family. So they always spoke to me in Spanish and my neighbor who hadn’t seen me in a while and saw the change was speaking to me in English as if he was meeting me for the first time. So he was like, “oh, how are you my friend Maria? You look good,” and I was like… ¿Cómo está vecino? and he was still like English. And I was like, this is a very weird exchange. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, so he continued in English even after you addressed him in Spanish? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes!\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it was kind of like, okay, clearly you don’t know how to receive me right now because I don’t know, I guess the change somehow made you feel like, okay, she’s not Latina anymore. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">but that’s so interesting that like you’re straightening your like the straightening of the hair to me would be like whatever it’s it’s hiding more of your culture and who you are and then to go more to your naturalness and then for him to speak english that feels a little backwards \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s interesting, right? You’re like, you would think with the straight hair, you would not, you’ll be like, oh, she’s not. Cause I feel like I look way more Latina now than ever.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But unfortunately in certain communities where the beauty standard is a certain, or they want it to be a certain thing. You know, that’s why I mentioned colorism. Like in my school, I did grow up with a lot of girls that were lighter than me and had like a very long hair and the light eyes. So I felt different, but not really, because I also saw me in the community. But when I made this change. I when he yeah, it was a very interesting moment. I was standing there like this is very uncomfortable, but okay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I think it’s so interesting how many, like who exactly is okay with putting you in a, in an uncomfortable position and being okay to stand in this discomfort with you and like, I don’t know, there’s, there was a weird ownership that needs to be taken in that, but Ian, do you have a similar situation where, uh, especially in the line of work that you do, where somebody clocked you or, or made you feel differently about how you actually are in the world?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">it hasn’t happened in that instance, like the way Maria just described, but like, I would say it’s happened in a, in a way that like the work I get. So like, I, I bring this example up because it’s like, it was, it was the first time I noticed it, but I got to do West Side Story when I was right out of college, and I was… \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And if you don’t know the show, it’s like Sharks and Jets, Puerto Ricans against the Americans. And I was cast as one of the Jets on the American side and one of weirdest things about being in a show like that where it’s about two gangs who are against each other and what, you know, like a completely different culture, this and that is like, when we would do dance at the gym, I, the whole time was like, I should be on that side with the Sharks. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I bring this up because like, I think sometimes I, again, I love how I’ve experienced the world and all of that, but like, I have had a little bit of like a resentment towards like, you know, I don’t know, the ether around just like, oh, like, because my last name isn’t Ramirez, which is, if I went with like my mom’s maiden name, Ian Ramirez I think would automatically change how people, like you said, receive me. Yeah, it’s, I think it’s the opposite. It’s the I wish I was seen more Latino than I am. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I will say that for a lot of us, this this idea of what Latina that is and who is Latino is about media representation and the narratives that are there. And unfortunately, kind of going back to the face and the name that I have, I remember when I was in college, and I was studying broadcast journalism, that all of my professors immediately when I was getting ready to go to into the workforce, they said, “So you’re doing Telemundo, right? You’re doing Univision?” And I was like, my Spanish is not that great, but just the implication that if I was going to be successful in this field, I was immediately going to have to go to the Latino side of things.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, so I’m curious, starting with you, Ian, about just when somebody does recognize that you are Latino, the more typecasting aspect of it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think that’s why I’m really excited to have these conversations is because I don’t think there’s enough story and storytelling being told of like the white passing Latino, like, or like that, that, that it comes- Yeah, it’s just the…\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Burgos:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just the spectrum, the spectrum in general of Latino- the variation- We don’t look like one thing and accept that accept it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. And that because I don’t have that last name, does that mean I don’t get to tell my version of like, like Latin story, which is very much embedded in my, my life story. You know what I mean? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Burgos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Exactly.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>And I love that you talk about, it’s about the stories that we make and the stories that we write. And Maria, as a writer, who incorporates a lot of your identity in what you do and in a lot into your performance. Was that an easy decision from day one? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos:\u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Absolutely. In a way, because I, again, growing up and getting older, I think Ian mentioned this, you get older and then that’s when you notice that you are a little bit different because you’re a little outside of your community. I was so tired of like fighting people on my own identity. And I want to talk about that all the time. And Ian is bringing up so many good points where, like, What is a Latino to you? Why are we, we’re living, why do we have to live within the identity as someone made up for us?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Like in movies, in novellas that my mom watches. For the longest, I’m like, oh, are these white people like, you know, acting like Mexicans and it was actually Mexicans, you know what I mean? But I’m like, but I meet Mexicans and they look like a variation of different things. I meet South Americans, I meet Dominicans, I meet Puerto Ricans and I see a spectrum of different people. \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So when I do get met with the question or when I met with like the scrutiny of like, are you sure? I’m like, well, what am I supposed to look like to you? Because apparently you have the definition in your dictionary of what I’m supposed to like.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And like touching on the little bit of acting that I’ve done before, I always get met with like not looking Latina enough and to them it means the straight hair. I have to be maybe a little light skinned. I have certain features and to me that’s confusing because I’m like what? Again, I have met people, there are people in my family that look like Ian and to me I immediately meet them and I’m not seeing like…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: I need to meet them\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Right. Ian is my cousin. Oh my god. He can really be my cousin. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh my god, what if this was like a find your roots? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Laughter]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No kidding. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, so in my work, I always want to be proud and I always just want to speak to the person that is trying to figure out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like, you know, they don’t feel Latino enough or they don’ feel American enough or whatever it is. It’s like, you are a hyphen and that is okay. Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you for the call back to the, to, it is, it’s all about hyphenated identity.\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I want to end by asking each of you, what’s your favorite part about being Latino? And I’ll say that for me, there’s something beautiful about just hearing Spanish and understanding either all of it, a little bit of it. That we have this energy\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like this intimacy that happens, this like, yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s something beautiful about that communication. So I’m wondering for you, Maria, what is your favorite thing about it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Burgos: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was going to say la comida, but I would like to say always la comida from any, any Latino communities, countries is the food is always going to hit, it’s always going to hit. There’s always gonna be a special dish. But I will also say it’s just our spiciness, that spiciness to show up in the world. Like, we show up. We always show up, we always, like. you know, whether we don’t present however we’re supposed to present, there’s something about us that another Latina person would be like, that is my people right over there, and I’m gonna go chat with them. So yeah, I would say our spicy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ian, what is yours? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Paget: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, I would say there’s a, an immense amount of, uh, heart that I feel like, and I, when you ask like, what’s my favorite part, I think about like my mom a lot, right? And like, because she, to me is my, she’s like my access to that every day. And the way she and my aunts and yes, and like my my Latin side of the family if there’s just such a there’s such a heart for like, you are always family. And that’s how I feel whenever I’m, that’s why I felt speaking to both of you that like immediately there’s just this shorthand, this like way that we get each other. So I guess it would be like the heart, the heart of the community, you know? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nice. I love that we’re now like primos. Well we found out that Ian is probably Maria’s primo, but I’m also included in this family, this huge growing Hyphenación family.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So thank you both for joining me for this really in-depth, fantastic conversation. I want to tell our listeners, if you want to follow either of my guests, just go to the show notes and you’ll have all of their information, including how to listen to Ian’s podcast, Tres Leches. And also, if you want to share your thoughts on what should be a topic on Hyphenación, be sure to email us at hyp@kqed.org. ¡Hasta Lleugo! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hyphenación is a KQED Studios Production. It is produced by Ana De Almeida Amaral, Alex Tran, and me, Xorje Olivares.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chris Hambrick is our editor. Jen Chien is executive producer and KQED’s director of podcasts. Mixing and mastering by Christopher Beale.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Special thanks to Megan Tan, Martina Castro, and Paulina Velasco for their development support. Thank you to Maha Sanad and Alana Walker for their audience engagement support, to podcast operations manager Katie Sprenger, Video Operations manager Vivian Morales, and our chief content officer Holly Kernan. Okay mi gente, cuídense.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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},
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"id": "code-switch-life-kit",
"title": "Code Switch / Life Kit",
"info": "\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em>, which listeners will hear in the first part of the hour, has fearless and much-needed conversations about race. Hosted by journalists of color, the show tackles the subject of race head-on, exploring how it impacts every part of society — from politics and pop culture to history, sports and more.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em>, which will be in the second part of the hour, guides you through spaces and feelings no one prepares you for — from finances to mental health, from workplace microaggressions to imposter syndrome, from relationships to parenting. The show features experts with real world experience and shares their knowledge. Because everyone needs a little help being human.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510312/codeswitch\">\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/lifekit\">\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />",
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"info": "The Commonwealth Club of California is the nation's oldest and largest public affairs forum. As a non-partisan forum, The Club brings to the public airwaves diverse viewpoints on important topics. The Club's weekly radio broadcast - the oldest in the U.S., dating back to 1924 - is carried across the nation on public radio stations and is now podcasting. Our website archive features audio of our recent programs, as well as selected speeches from our long and distinguished history. This podcast feed is usually updated twice a week and is always un-edited.",
"airtime": "THU 10pm, FRI 1am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Commonwealth-Club-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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"order": 10
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"how-i-built-this": {
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"airtime": "SUN 7:30pm-8pm",
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"info": "Inside Europe, a one-hour weekly news magazine hosted by Helen Seeney and Keith Walker, explores the topical issues shaping the continent. No other part of the globe has experienced such dynamic political and social change in recent years.",
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},
"latino-usa": {
"id": "latino-usa",
"title": "Latino USA",
"airtime": "MON 1am-2am, SUN 6pm-7pm",
"info": "Latino USA, the radio journal of news and culture, is the only national, English-language radio program produced from a Latino perspective.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/latinoUsa.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://latinousa.org/",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=79681317&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
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},
"live-from-here-highlights": {
"id": "live-from-here-highlights",
"title": "Live from Here Highlights",
"info": "Chris Thile steps to the mic as the host of Live from Here (formerly A Prairie Home Companion), a live public radio variety show. Download Chris’s Song of the Week plus other highlights from the broadcast. Produced by American Public Media.",
"airtime": "SAT 6pm-8pm, SUN 11am-1pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Live-From-Here-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.livefromhere.org/",
"meta": {
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"source": "american public media"
},
"link": "/radio/program/live-from-here-highlights",
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"rss": "https://feeds.publicradio.org/public_feeds/a-prairie-home-companion-highlights/rss/rss"
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"marketplace": {
"id": "marketplace",
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"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 4pm-4:30pm, MON-WED 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Marketplace-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.marketplace.org/",
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"source": "American Public Media"
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"mindshift": {
"id": "mindshift",
"title": "MindShift",
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"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/mindshift/",
"meta": {
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"order": 13
},
"link": "/podcasts/mindshift",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5",
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"morning-edition": {
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"info": "\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. Hosts Steve Inskeep, David Greene and Rachel Martin bring you the latest breaking news and features to prepare you for the day.",
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"onourwatch": {
"id": "onourwatch",
"title": "On Our Watch",
"tagline": "Deeply-reported investigative journalism",
"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/On-Our-Watch-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/onourwatch",
"meta": {
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"order": 12
},
"link": "/podcasts/onourwatch",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5ucHIub3JnLzUxMDM2MC9wb2RjYXN0LnhtbD9zYz1nb29nbGVwb2RjYXN0cw",
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"on-the-media": {
"id": "on-the-media",
"title": "On The Media",
"info": "Our weekly podcast explores how the media 'sausage' is made, casts an incisive eye on fluctuations in the marketplace of ideas, and examines threats to the freedom of information and expression in America and abroad. For one hour a week, the show tries to lift the veil from the process of \"making media,\" especially news media, because it's through that lens that we see the world and the world sees us",
"airtime": "SUN 2pm-3pm, MON 12am-1am",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/onTheMedia.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/otm",
"meta": {
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"link": "/radio/program/on-the-media",
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},
"our-body-politic": {
"id": "our-body-politic",
"title": "Our Body Politic",
"info": "Presented by KQED, KCRW and KPCC, and created and hosted by award-winning journalist Farai Chideya, Our Body Politic is unapologetically centered on reporting on not just how women of color experience the major political events of today, but how they’re impacting those very issues.",
"airtime": "SAT 6pm-7pm, SUN 1am-2am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Our-Body-Politic-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://our-body-politic.simplecast.com/",
"meta": {
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},
"link": "/radio/program/our-body-politic",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9feGFQaHMxcw",
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"info": "Analysis, background reports and updates from the PBS NewsHour putting today's news in context.",
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"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/PBS-News-Hour-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/pbs-newshour-full-show/id394432287?mt=2",
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},
"perspectives": {
"id": "perspectives",
"title": "Perspectives",
"tagline": "KQED's series of daily listener commentaries since 1991",
"info": "KQED's series of daily listener commentaries since 1991.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Perspectives-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/perspectives/",
"meta": {
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"order": 15
},
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"planet-money": {
"id": "planet-money",
"title": "Planet Money",
"info": "The economy explained. Imagine you could call up a friend and say, Meet me at the bar and tell me what's going on with the economy. Now imagine that's actually a fun evening.",
"airtime": "SUN 3pm-4pm",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/planetmoney.jpg",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/planet-money/id290783428?mt=2",
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"politicalbreakdown": {
"id": "politicalbreakdown",
"title": "Political Breakdown",
"tagline": "Politics from a personal perspective",
"info": "Political Breakdown is a new series that explores the political intersection of California and the nation. Each week hosts Scott Shafer and Marisa Lagos are joined with a new special guest to unpack politics -- with personality — and offer an insider’s glimpse at how politics happens.",
"airtime": "THU 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Political-Breakdown-2024-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/politicalbreakdown",
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"order": 6
},
"link": "/podcasts/politicalbreakdown",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM5Nzk2MzI2MTEx",
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"pri-the-world": {
"id": "pri-the-world",
"title": "PRI's The World: Latest Edition",
"info": "Each weekday, host Marco Werman and his team of producers bring you the world's most interesting stories in an hour of radio that reminds us just how small our planet really is.",
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"dateUpdated": "March 28, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "6:54 PM",
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"timeUpdated": "6:54 PM",
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"timeUpdated": "6:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "March 27, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "6:54 PM",
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"timeUpdated": "6:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "March 27, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "6:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "March 27, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "6:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "March 27, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "6:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "March 27, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "6:50 PM",
"dateUpdated": "April 3, 2024",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "6:50 PM",
"dateUpdated": "April 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 7306,
"candidates": [
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"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 5",
"raceDescription": "Candidate with majority vote wins seat. If no candidate reaches majority, top two candidates advance to runoff in general election.",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "6:50 PM",
"dateUpdated": "April 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
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{
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"candidateIncumbent": true,
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"timeUpdated": "6:50 PM",
"dateUpdated": "April 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 741,
"candidates": [
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"location": "Napa",
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"timeUpdated": "6:50 PM",
"dateUpdated": "April 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 86,
"candidates": [
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"location": "Napa",
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"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "6:50 PM",
"dateUpdated": "April 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 925,
"candidates": [
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"SFJudge1": {
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"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Superior Court Judge, Seat 1",
"raceDescription": "Candidate with majority vote wins seat. If no candidate reaches majority, top two candidates advance to runoff in general election.",
"raceReadTheStory": "https://www.kqed.org/elections/results/sanfrancisco/superior-court-seat-1",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "6:50 PM",
"dateUpdated": "March 21, 2024",
"totalVotes": 202960,
"candidates": [
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"candidateIncumbent": true,
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},
{
"id": "83069",
"raceName": "Proposition 36",
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}
],
"AlamedaChabotLasPositasCommunityCollegeDistrictTrusteeArea1": {
"id": "AlamedaChabotLasPositasCommunityCollegeDistrictTrusteeArea1",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Luis Reynoso \r",
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]
},
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"location": "Alameda",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Joseph Grcar",
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"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
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"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Peralta Community College District, Trustee Area 2",
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{
"candidateName": "Sinead Geneva Anderson",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
"candidateName": "Shelly Stoll Swanson",
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"id": "AlamedaSanJoaquinDeltaCommunityCollegeDistrictTrusteeArea2",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
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{
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"location": "Alameda",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
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"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Alameda Unified School District Governing Board",
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"raceType": "top3",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
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{
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Jennifer Williams",
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"candidateParty": "",
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},
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"location": "Alameda",
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{
"candidateName": "Mike Kusiak",
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"candidateParty": "",
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},
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"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Dublin Unified School District Governing Board, Area 1",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
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{
"candidateName": "Ramnath “Ram” Shanbhogue",
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]
},
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"id": "AlamedaEmeryUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoard",
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"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Emery Unified School District Governing Board",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
{
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{
"candidateName": "Brian Donahue",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Walter Pizarro",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 707
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{
"candidateName": "John T. Van Geffen",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
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"id": "AlamedaFremontUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardArea4",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
"candidateName": "Ganesh Balamitran",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Rinu Nair",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6606
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]
},
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"id": "AlamedaHaywardUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoard",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceType": "top3",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
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{
"candidateName": "Luis Reynoso",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Austin Bruckner Carrillo",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Simon “Peter” Gutierrez Bufete",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Calyn Kelley",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Tom Wong",
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]
},
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
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{
"candidateName": "Surekha Shekar",
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"candidateParty": "",
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]
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"id": "AlamedaLivermoreValleyJointUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoard",
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"raceType": "top2",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
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{
"candidateName": "Amanda Pepper",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Jean Paulsen",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Tara Boyce",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Christiaan Vandenheuvel",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Deena Kaplanis",
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"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 4547,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Midji Kuo-Rovetta",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Patricio R. Urbi",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Jatinder (JP) K. Sahi",
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"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
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"id": "AlamedaNewHavenUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardArea2",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 4448,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Melanie Freeberg",
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{
"candidateName": "Michelle Parnala",
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"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
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"id": "AlamedaNewHavenUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardArea3",
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"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "New Haven Unified School District Governing Board, Area 3",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 5229,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Lydia Idem",
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{
"candidateName": "Michael Gonzales",
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]
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top3",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 32762,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Aiden Hill",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Vikas Minglani",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Gabriel Anguiano Jr.",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Austin Block",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Phuong Nguyen",
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"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6250
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]
},
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"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
"candidateName": "Donalyn Harris",
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{
"candidateName": "Kelly Mokashi",
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"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
"AlamedaPleasantonUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardArea4": {
"id": "AlamedaPleasantonUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardArea4",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Pleasanton Unified School District Governing Board, Area 4",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Jen Flynn",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Charlie Jones",
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"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
"AlamedaSanLorenzoUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardArea5": {
"id": "AlamedaSanLorenzoUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardArea5",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "San Lorenzo Unified School District Governing Board, Area 5",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 3704,
"candidates": [
{
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{
"candidateName": "Penny Peck",
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"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
"AlamedaSunolGlenUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoard": {
"id": "AlamedaSunolGlenUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoard",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Sunol Glen Unified School District Governing Board",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 633,
"candidates": [
{
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Erin Choin",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
"AlamedaBoardofSupervisorsDistrict5": {
"id": "AlamedaBoardofSupervisorsDistrict5",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 5",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 141989,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "John J. Bauters",
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"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 70782
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{
"candidateName": "Nikki Fortunato Bas",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 71207
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]
},
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"id": "AlamedaAlamedaCityCouncil",
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"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Alameda City Council",
"raceDescription": "Top two candidates win seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top2",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 61752,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Trish Herrera Spencer",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Thushan Amarasiriwardena",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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{
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 16396
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{
"candidateName": "Greg Boller",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 14208
},
{
"candidateName": "Steve Slauson",
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"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6013
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]
},
"AlamedaAlamedaAuditor": {
"id": "AlamedaAlamedaAuditor",
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"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Alameda Auditor",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 27772,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Kevin R. Kearney",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 27772
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]
},
"AlamedaAlamedaTreasurer": {
"id": "AlamedaAlamedaTreasurer",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Alameda Treasurer",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 27514,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Kevin Kennedy",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 27514
}
]
},
"AlamedaBerkeleyRentStabilizationBoardCommissioner": {
"id": "AlamedaBerkeleyRentStabilizationBoardCommissioner",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Berkeley Rent Stabilization Board Commissioner",
"raceDescription": "Top four candidates win seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top4",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 138269,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Alfred Twu",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 22942
},
{
"candidateName": "Carole Marasovic",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 19557
},
{
"candidateName": "Xavier Johnson",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 26978
},
{
"candidateName": "Avery Arbaugh",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 19825
},
{
"candidateName": "Andy Kelley",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 23373
},
{
"candidateName": "Dominique Walker",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
"AlamedaBerkeleySchoolDirector": {
"id": "AlamedaBerkeleySchoolDirector",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Berkeley School Director",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top2",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 84804,
"candidates": [
{
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"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Jen Corn",
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"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 30836
},
{
"candidateName": "Laura Babitt",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 22061
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{
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]
},
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"location": "Alameda",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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},
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"id": "AlamedaDublinCityCouncilArea3",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
"candidateName": "John Morada",
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"candidateParty": "",
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]
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"raceType": "top3",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Sam Gould",
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{
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Sukhdeep Kaur",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Courtney Welch",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Matthew Solomon",
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]
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"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
"candidateName": "Vinnie Bacon",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Hiu Ng",
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{
"candidateName": "Raj Salwan",
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]
},
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"id": "AlamedaFremontCityCouncilDistrict1",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Pravesh Kumar",
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{
"candidateName": "Ranvir Sandhu",
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]
},
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"id": "AlamedaFremontCityCouncilDistrict5",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Sterling Jefferson Engle",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Chandra Wagh",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Yajing Zhang",
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]
},
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"id": "AlamedaFremontCityCouncilDistrict6",
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"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Fremont City Council, District 6",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 11269,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Raymond Liu",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Teresa Cox",
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"candidateParty": "",
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]
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"id": "AlamedaHaywardCityCouncil",
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"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Hayward City Council",
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"raceType": "top4",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Daniel Goldstein",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Angela Andrews",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Joe O. Ramos",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Ray Bonilla Jr.",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Tom Ferreira",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Francisco Zermeño",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
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]
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "John Marchand",
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]
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"id": "AlamedaLivermoreCityCouncilDistrict3",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
"candidateName": "Steven Dunbar",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Jeff Kaskey",
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]
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"id": "AlamedaLivermoreCityCouncilDistrict4",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
"candidateName": "Thomas Soules",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
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{
"candidateName": "Jason Miguel",
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{
"candidateName": "Elisa Martinez",
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]
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"location": "Alameda",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
"candidateName": "Hitendra Gupta",
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{
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Julie Del Catancio",
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{
"candidateName": "Vinod Kumar",
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]
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
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{
"candidateName": "Renu Malhotra",
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{
"candidateName": "Sean Mahanay",
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{
"candidateName": "Lucia Gutierrez",
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{
"candidateName": "Phil Bloxom",
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]
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
"candidateName": "Conna McCarthy",
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{
"candidateName": "James Green",
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{
"candidateName": "N. Sunny Bostrom-Fleming",
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]
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
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{
"candidateName": "Max Roman",
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{
"candidateName": "Victoria Rosenbaum",
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{
"candidateName": "Susy Struble",
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{
"candidateName": "Karla Brown",
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"candidateParty": "",
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]
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"location": "Alameda",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
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{
"candidateName": "Valerie Arkin",
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]
},
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"id": "AlamedaPleasantonCityCouncilDistrict4",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
"candidateName": "Matthew B. Gaidos",
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]
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
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{
"candidateName": "Marcus Bourlard",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Gary Singh",
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"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
"AlamedaUnionCityCouncilDistrict1": {
"id": "AlamedaUnionCityCouncilDistrict1",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
"candidateName": "Erin Robertson",
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{
"candidateName": "Lance Nishihira",
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]
},
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"id": "AlamedaACTransitDistrictDirectorWard6",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Jesse Lee Gunn",
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{
"candidateName": "Shonda Goward",
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{
"candidateName": "A. Curtis Silva",
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]
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"id": "AlamedaAlamedaCountyWaterDistrictDirectorWard5",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
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{
"candidateName": "Raymond Ojeda",
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"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
"AlamedaBARTDirectorDistrict5": {
"id": "AlamedaBARTDirectorDistrict5",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 154960,
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{
"candidateName": "Melissa Hernandez",
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{
"candidateName": "Joseph Grcar",
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]
},
"AlamedaBARTDirectorDistrict7": {
"id": "AlamedaBARTDirectorDistrict7",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. Inlcudes votes from Alameda County and San Francisco.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
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{
"candidateName": "Dana Lang",
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]
},
"AlamedaCastroValleySanitaryDistrictDirector": {
"id": "AlamedaCastroValleySanitaryDistrictDirector",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceType": "top3",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 50863,
"candidates": [
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{
"candidateName": "Joseph Grcar",
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{
"candidateName": "Daniel M. Akagi",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Kenneth Owen",
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{
"candidateName": "Darshan Saini",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Dave Sadoff",
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]
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"AlamedaDublinSanRamonServicesDistrictBoardofDirectorsArea3": {
"id": "AlamedaDublinSanRamonServicesDistrictBoardofDirectorsArea3",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 8409,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Javier Lopez Rivero",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Rich Halket",
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"candidateParty": "",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
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"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 51630,
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 52882,
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 49700,
"candidates": [
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 52312,
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure GG",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 52229,
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"AlamedaMeasureHH": {
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"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure HH",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 28903
}
]
},
"AlamedaMeasureII": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasureII",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure II",
"raceDescription": "Dublin. Open Space Initiative. Passes with 50% vote. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 25701,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 13649
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 12052
}
]
},
"AlamedaMeasureJJ": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasureJJ",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure JJ",
"raceDescription": "Dublin. Government accountability. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 25445,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 19350
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6095
}
]
},
"AlamedaMeasureK1": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasureK1",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure K1",
"raceDescription": "Hayward. Sales tax. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 46707,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 38826
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 7881
}
]
},
"AlamedaMeasureLL": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasureLL",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure LL",
"raceDescription": "Newark. Transient occupancy tax. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 15814,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 12721
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3093
}
]
},
"AlamedaMeasureMM": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasureMM",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure MM",
"raceDescription": "Oakland. Wildfire protection zone. Passes with 2/3 vote. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 35275,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 25125
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 10150
}
]
},
"AlamedaMeasureNN": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasureNN",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure NN",
"raceDescription": "Oakland. Parking tax. Passes with 2/3 vote. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 159573,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 112971
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 46602
}
]
},
"AlamedaMeasureOO": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasureOO",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure OO",
"raceDescription": "Oakland. Public ethics comission. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 150503,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 110317
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 40186
}
]
},
"AlamedaMeasurePP": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasurePP",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure PP",
"raceDescription": "Pleasanton. Sales tax. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 34880,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 15983
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 18897
}
]
},
"AlamedaMeasureQQ": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasureQQ",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure QQ",
"raceDescription": "Union City. Gross receipts tax. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 24809,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 20249
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4560
}
]
},
"AlamedaAlbanyCityCouncil": {
"id": "AlamedaAlbanyCityCouncil",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Albany City Council",
"raceDescription": "Top three candidates win seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top3",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 7969,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Jennifer Hansen-Romero",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2072
},
{
"candidateName": "Peggy (Margaret) McQuaid",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2150
},
{
"candidateName": "Jeremiah Garrett-Pinguelo",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 393
},
{
"candidateName": "Aaron Tiedemann",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1490
},
{
"candidateName": "Preston Jordan",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1864
}
]
},
"AlamedaAlbanyCityCouncilFinalRound": {
"id": "AlamedaAlbanyCityCouncilFinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Albany City Council Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top three candidates win seat. This result reflects redistributed votes. The results of the instant runoff will change as more first-choice votes are counted.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top3",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 7865.9493,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Jennifer Hansen-Romero",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2002
},
{
"candidateName": "Peggy (Margaret) McQuaid",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2002
},
{
"candidateName": "Jeremiah Garrett-Pinguelo (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Aaron Tiedemann",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1823.9955
},
{
"candidateName": "Preston Jordan ",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2037.9538
}
]
},
"AlamedaAlbanyBoardofEducation": {
"id": "AlamedaAlbanyBoardofEducation",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Albany Board of Education",
"raceDescription": "Top two candidates win seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top2",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 7096,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Jolene Gazmen",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1633
},
{
"candidateName": "Dayna Inkeles",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1972
},
{
"candidateName": "Brian L. Doss",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 718
},
{
"candidateName": "Veronica Davidson",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2773
}
]
},
"AlamedaAlbanyBoardofEducationFinalRound": {
"id": "AlamedaAlbanyBoardofEducationFinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Albany Board of Education Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top two candidates win seat. This result reflects redistributed votes. The results of the instant runoff will change as more first-choice votes are counted.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top2",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 6949.5470000000005,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Jolene Gazmen",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1997.5386
},
{
"candidateName": "Dayna Inkeles",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2569.0084
},
{
"candidateName": "Brian L. Doss (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Veronica Davidson",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2383
}
]
},
"AlamedaBerkeleyMayor": {
"id": "AlamedaBerkeleyMayor",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Berkeley Mayor",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 52493,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Adena Ishii",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 19978
},
{
"candidateName": "Sophie Hahn",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 19633
},
{
"candidateName": "Kate Harrison",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 11853
},
{
"candidateName": "Naomi D. Pete",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 501
},
{
"candidateName": "Logan Bowie",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 528
}
]
},
"AlamedaBerkeleyMayorFinalRound": {
"id": "AlamedaBerkeleyMayorFinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Berkeley Mayor Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result reflects redistributed votes. The results of the instant runoff will change as more first-choice votes are counted.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 49265,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Adena Ishii",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 25156
},
{
"candidateName": "Sophie Hahn",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 24109
},
{
"candidateName": "Kate Harrison (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Naomi D. Pete (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Logan Bowie (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
}
]
},
"AlamedaBerkeleyCityCouncilDistrict2": {
"id": "AlamedaBerkeleyCityCouncilDistrict2",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Berkeley City Council, District 2",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 6873,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Terry Taplin",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4787
},
{
"candidateName": "Jenny Guarino",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2086
}
]
},
"AlamedaBerkeleyCityCouncilDistrict3": {
"id": "AlamedaBerkeleyCityCouncilDistrict3",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Berkeley City Council, District 3",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 6344,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Deborah Matthews",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1526
},
{
"candidateName": "John “Chip” Moore",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1459
},
{
"candidateName": "Ben Bartlett",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3359
}
]
},
"AlamedaBerkeleyCityCouncilDistrict3FinalRound": {
"id": "AlamedaBerkeleyCityCouncilDistrict3FinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Berkeley City Council, District 3 Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result reflects redistributed votes. The results of the instant runoff will change as more first-choice votes are counted.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 6096,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Deborah Matthews",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1833
},
{
"candidateName": "John “Chip” Moore (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Ben Bartlett",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4263
}
]
},
"AlamedaBerkeleyCityCouncilDistrict5": {
"id": "AlamedaBerkeleyCityCouncilDistrict5",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Berkeley City Council, District 5",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 8585,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Nilang Gor",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1063
},
{
"candidateName": "Todd Andrew",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1721
},
{
"candidateName": "Shoshana O’Keefe",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5801
}
]
},
"AlamedaBerkeleyCityCouncilDistrict5FinalRound": {
"id": "AlamedaBerkeleyCityCouncilDistrict5FinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Berkeley City Council, District 5 Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result reflects redistributed votes. The results of the instant runoff will change as more first-choice votes are counted.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 8262,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Nilang Gor (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Todd Andrew",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1995
},
{
"candidateName": "Shoshana O’Keefe",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6267
}
]
},
"AlamedaBerkeleyCityCouncilDistrict6": {
"id": "AlamedaBerkeleyCityCouncilDistrict6",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Berkeley City Council, District 6",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 7332,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Brent Blackaby",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4405
},
{
"candidateName": "Andy Katz",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2927
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilAtLarge": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilAtLarge",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland City Council, At Large",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 143599,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Cristina “Tina” Tostado",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5406
},
{
"candidateName": "Charlene Wang",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 30485
},
{
"candidateName": "Mindy Ruth Pechenuk",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4835
},
{
"candidateName": "Rowena Brown",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 41871
},
{
"candidateName": "Nancy Sidebotham",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2254
},
{
"candidateName": "LeRonne L. Armstrong",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 39258
},
{
"candidateName": "Fabian Robinson",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2794
},
{
"candidateName": "Shawn Danino",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 9695
},
{
"candidateName": "Kanitha Matoury",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5629
},
{
"candidateName": "Selika Thomas",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1372
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilAtLargeFinalRound": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilAtLargeFinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland City Council, At Large Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result reflects redistributed votes. The results of the instant runoff will change as more first-choice votes are counted.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 127094,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Cristina “Tina” Tostado (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Charlene Wang (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Mindy Ruth Pechenuk (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Rowena Brown",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 72315
},
{
"candidateName": "Nancy Sidebotham (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "LeRonne L. Armstrong",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 54779
},
{
"candidateName": "Fabian Robinson (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Shawn Danino (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Kanitha Matoury (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Selika Thomas (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict1": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict1",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland City Council, District 1 ",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 29613,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Edward C. Frank",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2581
},
{
"candidateName": "Zac Unger",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 22641
},
{
"candidateName": "Len Raphael",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4391
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict1FinalRound": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict1FinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland City Council, District 1 Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result reflects redistributed votes. The results of the instant runoff will change as more first-choice votes are counted.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 29252,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Edward C. Frank (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Zac Unger",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 24350
},
{
"candidateName": "Len Raphael",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4902
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict3": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict3",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland City Council, District 3 ",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 20561,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Baba Afolabi",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1600
},
{
"candidateName": "Carroll Fife",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 9871
},
{
"candidateName": "Michelle D. Hailey",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1458
},
{
"candidateName": "Warren Mitchell Logan",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6222
},
{
"candidateName": "Shan M. Hirsch",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 609
},
{
"candidateName": "Meron Semedar",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 801
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict3FinalRound": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict3FinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland City Council, District 3 Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result reflects redistributed votes. The results of the instant runoff will change as more first-choice votes are counted.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 19506,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Baba Afolabi (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Carroll Fife",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 11437
},
{
"candidateName": "Michelle D. Hailey (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Warren Mitchell Logan",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 8069
},
{
"candidateName": "Shan M. Hirsch (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Meron Semedar (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict5": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict5",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland City Council, District 5",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 12299,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Noel Gallo",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6482
},
{
"candidateName": "Dominic Prado",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1930
},
{
"candidateName": "Erin Armstrong",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3887
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict5FinalRound": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict5FinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland City Council, District 5 Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result reflects redistributed votes. The results of the instant runoff will change as more first-choice votes are counted.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 12059,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Noel Gallo",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 7120
},
{
"candidateName": "Dominic Prado (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Erin Armstrong",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4939
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict7": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict7",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland City Council, District 7",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 13089,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Merika Goolsby",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2063
},
{
"candidateName": "Ken Houston",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4428
},
{
"candidateName": "Iris Merriouns",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4132
},
{
"candidateName": "Marcie Hodge",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2466
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict7FinalRound": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict7FinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland City Council, District 7 Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result reflects redistributed votes. The results of the instant runoff will change as more first-choice votes are counted.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 12106,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Merika Goolsby (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Ken Houston",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6303
},
{
"candidateName": "Iris Merriouns",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5803
},
{
"candidateName": "Marcie Hodge (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandCityAttorney": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandCityAttorney",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland City Attorney",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 137594,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Brenda Harbin-Forte",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 56752
},
{
"candidateName": "Ryan Richardson",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 80842
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandSchoolDirectorDistrict1": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandSchoolDirectorDistrict1",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland School Director, District 1 ",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 28794,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Rachel Latta",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 22409
},
{
"candidateName": "Benjamin Salop",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6385
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandSchoolDirectorDistrict3": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandSchoolDirectorDistrict3",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland School Director, District 3 ",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 19777,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Dwayne Aikens Jr.",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 8847
},
{
"candidateName": "VanCedric Williams",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 10930
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandSchoolDirectorDistrict5": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandSchoolDirectorDistrict5",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland School Director, District 5 ",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 12041,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Sasha Ritzie-Hernandez",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5578
},
{
"candidateName": "Patrice Berry",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6463
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandSchoolDirectorDistrict7": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandSchoolDirectorDistrict7",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland School Director, District 7 ",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 12366,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Clifford Thompson",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 7776
},
{
"candidateName": "Domonic Ware",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4590
}
]
},
"AlamedaSanLeandroCityCouncilDistrict1": {
"id": "AlamedaSanLeandroCityCouncilDistrict1",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "San Leandro City Council, District 1",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 22501,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Sbeydeh Viveros Walton",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 22501
}
]
},
"AlamedaSanLeandroCityCouncilDistrict2": {
"id": "AlamedaSanLeandroCityCouncilDistrict2",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "San Leandro City Council, District 2",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 28755,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Ed Hernandez",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 14150
},
{
"candidateName": "Bryan Azevedo",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 14605
}
]
},
"AlamedaSanLeandroCityCouncilDistrict4": {
"id": "AlamedaSanLeandroCityCouncilDistrict4",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "San Leandro City Council, District 4 ",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 22361,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Fred Simon",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 22361
}
]
},
"AlamedaSanLeandroCityCouncilDistrict6": {
"id": "AlamedaSanLeandroCityCouncilDistrict6",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "San Leandro City Council, District 6 ",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 27155,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Robert Aguilar Bulatao",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 10457
},
{
"candidateName": "Dylan Boldt",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 16698
}
]
},
"CCContraCostaCountyBoardofEducationGoverningBoardArea1": {
"id": "CCContraCostaCountyBoardofEducationGoverningBoardArea1",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Contra Costa",
"raceName": "Contra Costa County Board of Education Governing Board, Area 1",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 71155,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Anthony Edward Caro",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 28949
},
{
"candidateName": "Daniel Nathan-Heiss",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 42206
}
]
},
"CCContraCostaCountyBoardofEducationGoverningBoardArea3": {
"id": "CCContraCostaCountyBoardofEducationGoverningBoardArea3",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Contra Costa",
"raceName": "Contra Costa County Board of Education Governing Board, Area 3",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yazmin Llamas",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 50322
},
{
"candidateName": "Vicki Gordon",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 29483
}
]
},
"CCContraCostaCommunityCollegeDistrictGoverningBoardWard2": {
"id": "CCContraCostaCommunityCollegeDistrictGoverningBoardWard2",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Contra Costa",
"raceName": "Contra Costa Community College District Governing Board, Ward 2",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 104994,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Diana J. Honig",
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"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 77127
},
{
"candidateName": "Kofi Opong-Mensah",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 27867
}
]
},
"CCContraCostaCommunityCollegeDistrictGoverningBoardWard5": {
"id": "CCContraCostaCommunityCollegeDistrictGoverningBoardWard5",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Contra Costa",
"raceName": "Contra Costa Community College District Governing Board, Ward 5",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 70073,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Debra Vinson",
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"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 25582
},
{
"candidateName": "Fernando Sandoval",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 44491
}
]
},
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"id": "CCAcalanesUnionHighSchoolDistrictGoverningBoard",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Contra Costa",
"raceName": "Acalanes Union High School District Governing Board",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top2",
"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Andrew Fontan",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Sibyl Minighini",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
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"candidateIncumbent": true,
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},
{
"candidateName": "Paul Chopra",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Peter Catalano",
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"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4987
},
{
"candidateName": "Stacey Schweppe",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 14661
}
]
},
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"id": "CCAntiochUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardArea3",
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"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
"candidateName": "Scott Bergerhouse",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Dee Brown",
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"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4831
}
]
},
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"id": "CCAntiochUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardArea4",
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"location": "Contra Costa",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
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},
{
"candidateName": "Olga Cobos-Smith",
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"candidateParty": "",
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}
]
},
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"location": "Contra Costa",
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"raceType": "top2",
"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
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},
{
"candidateName": "Amanda Pepper",
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},
{
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},
{
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},
{
"candidateName": "Christiaan Vandenheuvel",
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"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Deena Kaplanis",
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}
]
},
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
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},
{
"candidateName": "Logan Campbell",
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}
]
},
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"id": "CCMtDiabloUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardArea5",
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"location": "Contra Costa",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
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{
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},
{
"candidateName": "May Jabeen Patel",
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}
]
},
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"id": "CCSanRamonValleyUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardArea2",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Contra Costa",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Shelley Clark",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Karin Shumway",
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"candidateParty": "",
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}
]
},
"CCSanRamonValleyUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardArea3": {
"id": "CCSanRamonValleyUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardArea3",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Contra Costa",
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"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 11834,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Laura Bratt",
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"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Sukriti Sehgal",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5772
}
]
},
"CCWestContraCostaUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardArea2": {
"id": "CCWestContraCostaUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardArea2",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Contra Costa",
"raceName": "West Contra Costa Unified School District Governing Board, Area 2",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 12451,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Guadalupe Enllana",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6810
},
{
"candidateName": "Otheree AK Christian",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
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}
]
},
"CCMoragaSchoolDistrictGoverningBoard": {
"id": "CCMoragaSchoolDistrictGoverningBoard",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Contra Costa",
"raceName": "Moraga School District Governing Board",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top2",
"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 12812,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Lee Hays",
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"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Gian Panetta",
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"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 9881
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{
"candidateName": "Dave Keatley",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3979
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]
},
"MarinNorthMarinWaterDistrictDirectorDivision1ShortTerm": {
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"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Mary Stompe",
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"candidateParty": "",
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"MarinNorthMarinWaterDistrictDirectorDivision3": {
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"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "North Marin Water District Director, Division 3",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 6352,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Francis Drouillard",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Michael H. Joly",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
"MarinMeasureAA": {
"id": "MarinMeasureAA",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure AA",
"raceDescription": "Petaluma Joint Union High School District. School bond. Passes with 55% vote. Includes votes from Marin and Sonoma Counties.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 40540,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "No",
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"MarinMeasureB": {
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"location": "Marin",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 66819,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 43939
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{
"candidateName": "No",
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"MarinMeasureC": {
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"raceName": "Measure C",
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"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 1120,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 807
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{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 313
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"MarinMeasureE": {
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"raceName": "Measure E",
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"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 6981,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
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"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4219
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{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2762
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]
},
"MarinMeasureG": {
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"location": "Marin",
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"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 5885,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4123
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{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1762
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]
},
"MarinMeasureH": {
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"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure H",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 4403,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1763
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2640
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]
},
"MarinMeasureI": {
"id": "MarinMeasureI",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure I",
"raceDescription": "Fairfax. Rent stabilization. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 4733,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2991
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{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1742
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]
},
"MarinMeasureJ": {
"id": "MarinMeasureJ",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure J",
"raceDescription": "Fairfax. Infrastructure bond. Passes with 2/3 vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 4781,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2966
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1815
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]
},
"MarinMeasureK": {
"id": "MarinMeasureK",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure K",
"raceDescription": "Larkspur. Rent increase limit. Passes with majority vote. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 7144,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2710
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4434
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]
},
"MarinMeasureL": {
"id": "MarinMeasureL",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure L",
"raceDescription": "Mill Valley. Sales tax. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 8565,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6623
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1942
}
]
},
"MarinMeasureM": {
"id": "MarinMeasureM",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure M",
"raceDescription": "Novato. Sales tax. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 26157,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 15151
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 11006
}
]
},
"MarinMeasureN": {
"id": "MarinMeasureN",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure N",
"raceDescription": "San Anselmo. Rent increase limit. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 7470,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2756
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4714
}
]
},
"MarinMeasureO": {
"id": "MarinMeasureO",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure O",
"raceDescription": "San Anselmo. Tenant benefits. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 7560,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2556
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5004
}
]
},
"MarinMeasureP": {
"id": "MarinMeasureP",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure P",
"raceDescription": "San Rafael. Parcel tax. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 23788,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 12375
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 11413
}
]
},
"MarinMeasureQ": {
"id": "MarinMeasureQ",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure Q",
"raceDescription": "Stinson Beach Fire Protection District. Spending limit. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 332,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 309
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 23
}
]
},
"MarinMeasureR": {
"id": "MarinMeasureR",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure R",
"raceDescription": "Stinson Beach Fire Protection District. Parcel tax. Passes with 2/3 vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 335,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 274
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 61
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]
},
"NapaNapaCountyBoardofEducationTrusteeArea5": {
"id": "NapaNapaCountyBoardofEducationTrusteeArea5",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Napa County Board of Education, Trustee Area 5",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 7504,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Rory Moran",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2163
},
{
"candidateName": "Gerald Parrott \r",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5341
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]
},
"NapaSolanoCountyBoardofEducationTrusteeArea2": {
"id": "NapaSolanoCountyBoardofEducationTrusteeArea2",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Solano County Board of Education, Trustee Area 2",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. Includes votes from Napa and Solano counties.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 28859,
"candidates": [
{
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 10075
},
{
"candidateName": "Carol J. Kalamaras",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5417
},
{
"candidateName": "Amy Sharp",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 13367
}
]
},
"NapaNapaValleyCollegeTrusteeArea6": {
"id": "NapaNapaValleyCollegeTrusteeArea6",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Napa Valley College, Trustee Area 6",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 8021,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Ines De Luna",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4839
},
{
"candidateName": "Scott Owens",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3182
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]
},
"NapaNapaValleyUnifiedSchoolDistrictTrusteeArea2": {
"id": "NapaNapaValleyUnifiedSchoolDistrictTrusteeArea2",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Napa Valley Unified School District, Trustee Area 2",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 6552,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Lisa W. Chu",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4603
},
{
"candidateName": "Kevin “KDub” West",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1949
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]
},
"NapaNapaValleyUnifiedSchoolDistrictTrusteeArea4": {
"id": "NapaNapaValleyUnifiedSchoolDistrictTrusteeArea4",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Napa Valley Unified School District, Trustee Area 4",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 5964,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Devin Jones",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2087
},
{
"candidateName": "Eve Ryser",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3877
}
]
},
"NapaNapaValleyUnifiedSchoolDistrictTrusteeArea5": {
"id": "NapaNapaValleyUnifiedSchoolDistrictTrusteeArea5",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Napa Valley Unified School District, Trustee Area 5",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 5273,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "John Henry Martin",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3094
},
{
"candidateName": "David T. Gracia",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2179
}
]
},
"NapaNapaValleyUnifiedSchoolDistrictTrusteeArea7": {
"id": "NapaNapaValleyUnifiedSchoolDistrictTrusteeArea7",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Napa Valley Unified School District, Trustee Area 7",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 7113,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Marie Dennett",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3199
},
{
"candidateName": "Julianna Hart",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3914
}
]
},
"NapaFairfieldSuisunUnifiedSchoolDistrictTrusteeArea3": {
"id": "NapaFairfieldSuisunUnifiedSchoolDistrictTrusteeArea3",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Fairfield-Suisun Unified School District, Trustee Area 3",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. Includes votes from Napa and Solano Counties.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 7982,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Brigette Hunley",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4144
},
{
"candidateName": "Judi Honeychurch",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3838
}
]
},
"NapaAmericanCanyonMayor": {
"id": "NapaAmericanCanyonMayor",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "American Canyon Mayor",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 8998,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "David Oro",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4342
},
{
"candidateName": "Pierre Washington",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4656
}
]
},
"NapaAmericanCanyonCityCouncil": {
"id": "NapaAmericanCanyonCityCouncil",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "American Canyon City Council",
"raceDescription": "Top two candidates win seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top2",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 13690,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Melissa Lamattina",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4312
},
{
"candidateName": "Elmer Andrei Manaid",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2796
},
{
"candidateName": "Davet Mohammed",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3044
},
{
"candidateName": "Brando R. Cruz",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3538
}
]
},
"NapaCalistogaMayor": {
"id": "NapaCalistogaMayor",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Calistoga Mayor",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 1509,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Donald Williams",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1509
}
]
},
"NapaCalistogaCityCouncil": {
"id": "NapaCalistogaCityCouncil",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Calistoga City Council",
"raceDescription": "Top two candidates win seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top2",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 2676,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Lisa Gift",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 843
},
{
"candidateName": "Marion Villalba",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 745
},
{
"candidateName": "Irais Lopez-Ortega",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1088
}
]
},
"NapaNapaMayor": {
"id": "NapaNapaMayor",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Napa Mayor",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 33270,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Tuesday D. Allison",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6598
},
{
"candidateName": "Scott Sedgley",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 26672
}
]
},
"NapaNapaCityCouncilDistrict2": {
"id": "NapaNapaCityCouncilDistrict2",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Napa City Council, District 2",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 7264,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Beth Painter",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 7264
}
]
},
"NapaNapaCityCouncilDistrict4": {
"id": "NapaNapaCityCouncilDistrict4",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Napa City Council, District 4",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 5214,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Bernardo “Bernie” Narvaez",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5214
}
]
},
"NapaStHelenaMayor": {
"id": "NapaStHelenaMayor",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "St Helena Mayor",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 2662,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Paul J. Dohring",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1836
},
{
"candidateName": "Billy Summers",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 826
}
]
},
"NapaStHelenaCityCouncil": {
"id": "NapaStHelenaCityCouncil",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "St Helena City Council",
"raceDescription": "Top two candidates win seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top2",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 4172,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Michelle Deasy",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1580
},
{
"candidateName": "Hector R. Marroquin",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1076
},
{
"candidateName": "Aaron Barak",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1516
}
]
},
"NapaYountvilleTownCouncil": {
"id": "NapaYountvilleTownCouncil",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Yountville Town Council",
"raceDescription": "Top two candidates win seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top2",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 2117,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Joe Tagliaboschi",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 483
},
{
"candidateName": "Robert Moore",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 234
},
{
"candidateName": "Pam Reeves",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 651
},
{
"candidateName": "Eric E. Knight",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 749
}
]
},
"NapaMeasureBSchool": {
"id": "NapaMeasureBSchool",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Napa Valley Unified School District, Measure B",
"raceDescription": "Napa Valley Unified School District. School bond. Passes with 55% vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 42267,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 23284
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 18983
}
]
},
"NapaMeasureU": {
"id": "NapaMeasureU",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Measure U",
"raceDescription": "Napa Valley Transportation Authority. Transporation sales tax. Passes with 2/3 vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 60783,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 44230
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 16553
}
]
},
"NapaMeasureG": {
"id": "NapaMeasureG",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Measure G",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 34724,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 19961
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{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 14763
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]
},
"NapaMeasureA1": {
"id": "NapaMeasureA1",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Measure A1",
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"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 2719,
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{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
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{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
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},
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"id": "NapaMeasureA2",
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"location": "Napa",
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"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 2741,
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
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{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
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]
},
"NapaMeasureBStHelena": {
"id": "NapaMeasureBStHelena",
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"location": "Napa",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 2764,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1366
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{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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},
"SFBoardofEducation": {
"id": "SFBoardofEducation",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Education",
"raceDescription": "Top four candidates win seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top4",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 1012778,
"candidates": [
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 45736
},
{
"candidateName": "Lefteris Eleftheriou",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 22285
},
{
"candidateName": "Jaime Huling",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 168659
},
{
"candidateName": "Ann Hsu",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 81044
},
{
"candidateName": "John Jersin",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 122450
},
{
"candidateName": "Parag Gupta",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 139340
},
{
"candidateName": "Matt Alexander",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 122698
},
{
"candidateName": "Supryia Marie Ray",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 127834
},
{
"candidateName": "Virginia Cheung",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 101017
},
{
"candidateName": "Min Chang",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 48550
},
{
"candidateName": "Maddy Krantz",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 33165
}
]
},
"SFCommunityCollegeBoard": {
"id": "SFCommunityCollegeBoard",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Community College Board",
"raceDescription": "Top four candidates win seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top4",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 823294,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Ruth Ferguson",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 114132
},
{
"candidateName": "Leanna C. Louie",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 50353
},
{
"candidateName": "Heather McCarty",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 162477
},
{
"candidateName": "Julio J. Ramos",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 38741
},
{
"candidateName": "Aliya Chisti",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 149638
},
{
"candidateName": "Ben Kaplan",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 49320
},
{
"candidateName": "Alan Wong",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 140951
},
{
"candidateName": "Luis Zamora",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 117682
}
]
},
"SFBARTBoardofDirectorsDistrict7": {
"id": "SFBARTBoardofDirectorsDistrict7",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "San Francisco Bay Area Rapid Transit District Director, District 7",
"raceDescription": "Top two candidates win seat. Includes votes from San Francisco and Alameda County.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 161254,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Victor E. Flores",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 92729
},
{
"candidateName": "Dana Lang",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 68525
}
]
},
"SFBARTBoardofDirectorsDistrict9": {
"id": "SFBARTBoardofDirectorsDistrict9",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "San Francisco Bay Area Rapid Transit District Director, District 9",
"raceDescription": "Top two candidates win seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 137871,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Edward Wright",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 86966
},
{
"candidateName": "Joe Sangirardi",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 50905
}
]
},
"SFMeasureA": {
"id": "SFMeasureA",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure A",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco Unified School District. School bond. Passes with 55% vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 377297,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 282968
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 94329
}
]
},
"SFMeasureB": {
"id": "SFMeasureB",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure B",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Community health and safety bond. Passes with 2/3 vote. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 376637,
"candidates": [
{
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 274187
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 102450
}
]
},
"SFMeasureC": {
"id": "SFMeasureC",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure C",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Inspector General position. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 370366,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 225704
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 144662
}
]
},
"SFMeasureD": {
"id": "SFMeasureD",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure D",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Commissions and mayoral authority. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 366327,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 158723
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 207604
}
]
},
"SFMeasureE": {
"id": "SFMeasureE",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure E",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Commissions task force. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 363854,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 192540
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 171314
}
]
},
"SFMeasureF": {
"id": "SFMeasureF",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure F",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Police pensions. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 361671,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 163835
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 197836
}
]
},
"SFMeasureG": {
"id": "SFMeasureG",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure G",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Affordable housing. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 370824,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 217807
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 153017
}
]
},
"SFMeasureH": {
"id": "SFMeasureH",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure H",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Firefighter pensions. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 365942,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 192601
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 173341
}
]
},
"SFMeasureI": {
"id": "SFMeasureI",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure I",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Nurse and 911 operator pensions. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 363459,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 261318
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 102141
}
]
},
"SFMeasureJ": {
"id": "SFMeasureJ",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure J",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. City spending. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 362785,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 297972
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 64813
}
]
},
"SFMeasureK": {
"id": "SFMeasureK",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure K",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Permanently closing Upper Great Highway to private vehicles. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 376489,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 206042
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 170447
}
]
},
"SFMeasureL": {
"id": "SFMeasureL",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure L",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Transportation network companies tax. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 369575,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 210375
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 159200
}
]
},
"SFMeasureM": {
"id": "SFMeasureM",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure M",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Business tax. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 342310,
"candidates": [
{
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 237930
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 104380
}
]
},
"SFMeasureN": {
"id": "SFMeasureN",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure N",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Student loan reimbursement. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 363432,
"candidates": [
{
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 187979
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 175453
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]
},
"SFMeasureO": {
"id": "SFMeasureO",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure O",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Reproductive rights. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 373249,
"candidates": [
{
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 312914
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 60335
}
]
},
"SFMayorRound1": {
"id": "SFMayorRound1",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "San Francisco Mayor Round 1",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 390180,
"candidates": [
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 95117
},
{
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 72115
},
{
"candidateName": "Henry Flynn",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1319
},
{
"candidateName": "Keith Freedman",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2079
},
{
"candidateName": "Dylan Hirsch-Shell",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2897
},
{
"candidateName": "Daniel Lurie",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 102720
},
{
"candidateName": "Nelson Mei",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1791
},
{
"candidateName": "Aaron Peskin",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 89215
},
{
"candidateName": "Paul Robertson",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 812
},
{
"candidateName": "Ahsha Safai",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 11425
},
{
"candidateName": "Shahram Shariati",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1613
},
{
"candidateName": "Jon Soderstrom",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 412
},
{
"candidateName": "Ellen Zhou",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 8665
}
]
},
"SFMayorRound3": {
"id": "SFMayorRound3",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "San Francisco Mayor Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This is the latest ranked choice data provided by the Department of Elections office.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 331477,
"candidates": [
{
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 149113
},
{
"candidateName": "Mark Farrell (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Henry Flynn (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Keith Freedman (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Dylan Hirsch-Shell (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Daniel Lurie",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 182364
},
{
"candidateName": "Nelson Mei (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Aaron Peskin (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Paul Robertson (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Ahsha Safai (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Shahram Shariati (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Jon Soderstrom (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Ellen Zhou (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
}
]
},
"SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict1": {
"id": "SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict1",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 1 Round One",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 35478,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Sherman D'Silva",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 899
},
{
"candidateName": "Marjan Philhour",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 14755
},
{
"candidateName": "Connie Chan",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 16670
},
{
"candidateName": "Jeremiah Boehner",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1344
},
{
"candidateName": "Jen Nossokoff",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1810
}
]
},
"SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict1FinalRound": {
"id": "SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict1FinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 1 Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This is the latest ranked choice data provided by the Department of Elections office.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 34299,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Sherman D'Silva (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Marjan Philhour",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 16499
},
{
"candidateName": "Connie Chan",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 17800
},
{
"candidateName": "Jeremiah Boehner (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Jen Nossokoff (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
}
]
},
"SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict3": {
"id": "SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict3",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 3 Round One",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 28758,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Sharon Lai",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 8489
},
{
"candidateName": "Moe Jamil",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3753
},
{
"candidateName": "Wendy Ha Chau",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1565
},
{
"candidateName": "Eduard Navarro",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 879
},
{
"candidateName": "Danny Sauter",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 11272
},
{
"candidateName": "Matthew Susk",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2800
}
]
},
"SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict3FinalRound": {
"id": "SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict3FinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 3 Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This is the latest ranked choice data provided by the Department of Elections office.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 25568,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Sharon Lai",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 11512
},
{
"candidateName": "Moe Jamil (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Wendy Ha Chau (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Eduard Navarro (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Danny Sauter",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 14056
},
{
"candidateName": "Matthew Susk (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
}
]
},
"SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict5": {
"id": "SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict5",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 5",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result reflects redistributed votes. The results of the instant runoff will change as more first-choice votes are counted.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 29698,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Autumn Hope Looijen",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2606
},
{
"candidateName": "Bilal Mahmood",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 11840
},
{
"candidateName": "Scotty Jacobs",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2796
},
{
"candidateName": "Allen Jones",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 444
},
{
"candidateName": "Dean Preston",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 12012
}
]
},
"SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict5FinalRound": {
"id": "SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict5FinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 5 Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This is the latest ranked choice data provided by the Department of Elections office.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 27818,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Autumn Hope Looijen (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Bilal Mahmood",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 14741
},
{
"candidateName": "Scotty Jacobs (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Allen Jones (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Dean Preston",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 13077
}
]
},
"SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict7": {
"id": "SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict7",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 7 Round One",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 37318,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Myrna Melgar",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 17532
},
{
"candidateName": "Stephen Martin-Pinto",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5135
},
{
"candidateName": "Edward S. Yee",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1244
},
{
"candidateName": "Matt Boschetto",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 13407
}
]
},
"SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict7FinalRound": {
"id": "SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict7FinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 7 Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This is the latest ranked choice data provided by the Department of Elections office.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 35412,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Myrna Melgar",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 18916
},
{
"candidateName": "Stephen Martin-Pinto (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Edward S. Yee (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Matt Boschetto",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 16496
}
]
},
"SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict9": {
"id": "SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict9",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 9 Round One",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 32731,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Jackie Fielder",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 13844
},
{
"candidateName": "Stephen Jon Torres",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1140
},
{
"candidateName": "Roberto Hernandez",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6606
},
{
"candidateName": "Jaime Gutierrez",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 931
},
{
"candidateName": "Trevor Chandler",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 9042
},
{
"candidateName": "Julian Bermudez",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 600
},
{
"candidateName": "H. Brown",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 568
}
]
},
"SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict9FinalRound": {
"id": "SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict9FinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 9 Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This is the latest ranked choice data provided by the Department of Elections office.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 29409,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Jackie Fielder",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 17546
},
{
"candidateName": "Stephen Jon Torres (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Roberto Hernandez (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Jaime Gutierrez (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Trevor Chandler",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 11863
},
{
"candidateName": "Julian Bermudez (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "H. Brown (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
}
]
},
"SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict11": {
"id": "SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict11",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 11 First Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 27928,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Oscar Flores",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2896
},
{
"candidateName": "Michael Lai",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 8675
},
{
"candidateName": "Roger Marenco",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 604
},
{
"candidateName": "Jose Morales",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 629
},
{
"candidateName": "Ernest “EJ” Jones",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5441
},
{
"candidateName": "Adlah Chisti",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1434
},
{
"candidateName": "Chyanne Chen",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 8249
}
]
},
"SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict11FinalRound": {
"id": "SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict11FinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 11 Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This is the latest ranked choice data provided by the Department of Elections office.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 23804,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Oscar Flores (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Michael Lai",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 11803
},
{
"candidateName": "Roger Marenco (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Jose Morales (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Ernest “EJ” Jones (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Adlah Chisti (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Chyanne Chen",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 12001
}
]
},
"SFCityAttorney": {
"id": "SFCityAttorney",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "City Attorney ",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 329174,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "David Chiu",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 272857
},
{
"candidateName": "Richard T. Woon",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 56317
}
]
},
"SFDistrictAttorney": {
"id": "SFDistrictAttorney",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "District Attorney",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 347374,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Brooke Jenkins ",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 228999
},
{
"candidateName": "Ryan Khojasteh",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 118375
}
]
},
"SFSheriff": {
"id": "SFSheriff",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Sheriff ",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 314864,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Michael Juan",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 63768
},
{
"candidateName": "Paul Miyamoto",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 251096
}
]
},
"SFTreasurer": {
"id": "SFTreasurer",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Treasurer ",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 300411,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "José Cisneros",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 300411
}
]
},
"SMCountyBoardofEducationTrusteeArea4": {
"id": "SMCountyBoardofEducationTrusteeArea4",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Mateo",
"raceName": "County Board of Education, Trustee Area 4",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 36397,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Priya Hays",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 10568
},
{
"candidateName": "Chelsea Bonini",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 25829
}
]
},
"SMCountyBoardofEducationTrusteeArea5": {
"id": "SMCountyBoardofEducationTrusteeArea5",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Mateo",
"raceName": "County Board of Education, Trustee Area 5",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 41938,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Maurice Goodman",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 14615
},
{
"candidateName": "Mike O’Neill",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 27323
}
]
},
"SMCountyBoardofEducationTrusteeArea6": {
"id": "SMCountyBoardofEducationTrusteeArea6",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Mateo",
"raceName": "County Board of Education, Trustee Area 6",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 39921,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Patricia Love",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 28085
},
{
"candidateName": "Ester Adut",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 11836
}
]
},
"SMSanMateoCountyCommunityCollegeDistrictGoverningBoardTrusteeArea1": {
"id": "SMSanMateoCountyCommunityCollegeDistrictGoverningBoardTrusteeArea1",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Mateo",
"raceName": "San Mateo County Community College District, Governing Board, Trustee Area 1",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 64091,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Keith Holden",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 20270
},
{
"candidateName": "Lisa A. Petrides",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 43821
}
]
},
"SMCabrilloUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardTrusteeAreaB": {
"id": "SMCabrilloUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardTrusteeAreaB",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Mateo",
"raceName": "Cabrillo Unified School District, Governing Board, Trustee Area B",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 2539,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Breanna Lafontaine",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1614
},
{
"candidateName": "Glenn Wilson",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 925
}
]
},
"SMCabrilloUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardTrusteeAreaD": {
"id": "SMCabrilloUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardTrusteeAreaD",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Mateo",
"raceName": "Cabrillo Unified School District, Governing Board, Trustee Area D",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 2588,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Sophia Layne",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 847
},
{
"candidateName": "Peter Cerneka",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1741
}
]
},
"SMSouthSanFranciscoUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardTrusteeAreaA": {
"id": "SMSouthSanFranciscoUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardTrusteeAreaA",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Mateo",
"raceName": "South San Francisco Unified School District, Governing Board, Trustee Area A",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 5144,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Patricia “Pat” Murray",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4019
},
{
"candidateName": "Samuel M. Chetcuti",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1125
}
]
},
"SMSequoiaUnionHighSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardTrusteeAreaB": {
"id": "SMSequoiaUnionHighSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardTrusteeAreaB",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Mateo",
"raceName": "Sequoia Union High School District, Governing Board, Trustee Area B",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 22237,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Mary Beth Thompson",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 14181
},
{
"candidateName": "Daniel Torunian",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1976
},
{
"candidateName": "Jacob Yuryev",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6080
}
]
},
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"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
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"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"raceName": "Measure JJ",
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"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
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"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
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"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
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"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
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"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
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"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
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"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"location": "San Mateo",
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"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"location": "Santa Clara",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
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"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"SCMeasureI": {
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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{
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{
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{
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{
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{
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{
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]
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]
},
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{
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{
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{
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{
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{
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{
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{
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{
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{
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{
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{
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{
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]
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{
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{
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{
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{
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]
},
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"timeUpdated": "8:01 PM",
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{
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{
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