Deon, 32, is HIV positive and expecting a daughter. He’s being treated at a new San Francisco program that helps men with HIV safely realize their dreams of being dads. (Photo: Ryan Anson)
The public health message around unprotected sex for those with HIV has always been the same: Don’t do it. Even with huge strides in medical science that’s changed HIV from a death sentence to a chronic but manageable disease, that directive has not changed.
Now, a new program based in San Francisco is challenging this long-held campaign, and helping HIV-positive men have babies -- the conventional way. The program run by San Francisco General Hospital, called PRO Men, teaches men about a range of reproductive options, from adoption to in vitro fertilization -- where an egg is fertilized in a lab dish -- to carefully timed intercourse.
“I would say as an HIV provider community, we have really failed these men,” says UCSF professor Deborah Cohan, who runs the hospital's Bay Area Perinatal AIDS Center or BAPAC. “We really have not created programs to help them realize those goals and do so safely.”
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With the discovery of drugs to treat the virus, Cohan said people with HIV are living long, healthy lives. And for those who want to start families, having “safe” sex, Cohan said, can mean foregoing condoms when a female partner is ovulating. Women can also take HIV drugs, which some studies show can protect against the virus. (BAPAC has helped HIV-positive women who adhere to their medications have healthy babies for years.)
“We know that if the person who is positive takes antiretrovirals and their viral load is suppressed, meaning the medication is working at killing all the HIV in the blood, that the likelihood of them passing HIV to a sexual partner is essentially zero,” Cohan said.
“Essentially zero” but not absolutely zero, Cohan says, because there’s some concern the virus can be in genital fluid even when it’s not detected in blood.
Despite this concern, couples are forging ahead with their family plans. Deon, 32, who thought his life was over when he tested HIV positive when he was in jail four years ago. Now he is about to welcome a baby girl with his fiancée Caroline. (Both Deon and Caroline preferred to go by their first names only.)
The couple became pregnant through unprotected sexual intercourse. Caroline does not have HIV, so the baby does not either. And she said she’s really not too concerned about getting HIV from her partner.
“He’s on his meds, and it’s a really, really, really low chance of me getting it,” she said. “And I just, like I love him, it’s not a big issue.”
BREAKING STIGMA
Though it may not be a big issue for Caroline, being HIV positive and having unprotected sex runs counter to just about every public health message that’s been put out for decades. Both state public health officials and officials with the Centers for Disease Control declined to comment for this story. The latest ethics report from the research and advocacy group American Society for Reproductive Medicine called the practice, “unsafe” and “not recommended.”
The San Francisco program is thought to be the first of its kind, and David Evans with the AIDS activist group Project Inform said it may stay that way for a while.
“I think stigma is still very, very strong in society about HIV in general.”
Evans, who has been following HIV medical science for decades and pushes for policy changes, said that in some states, doctors have refused to help those with HIV have kids altogether. Until about two years ago, health officials in Mississippi required people who tested positive for the virus to sign a form saying they would never have children. Evans said a program that affirms the right of people with HIV to have kids, and let go of condoms, could be revolutionary.
“I think this really changes things in a quite dramatic way,” Evan said. “And it is one of the last big remaining hurdles that I think many heterosexual men and women have to what they would consider living a normal, ordinary life.”
Case in point, as a typical father-to-be, Deon worries more about raising a daughter than he does about his HIV.
“It's like 'Oh my god,’” he said. “I definitely want her to know all kinds of self-defense. I envision her to be a black belt in karate.”
Caroline said she's confident they'll be good parents.
“We just have a really good relationship, like we really talk about everything,” she said. “He says I can make the decisions, but we make decisions together really, and things are just better when we're together.”
The hospital treats about 500 straight men with HIV. The PRO Men program plans to launch a monthly support group in March that will also be open to men living outside San Francisco.
Listen to Mina Kim's story:
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"disqusTitle": "Rethinking Unprotected Sex for HIV-Positive Men ",
"title": "Rethinking Unprotected Sex for HIV-Positive Men ",
"headTitle": "State of Health | KQED News",
"content": "\u003cp>By Mina Kim\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_10613\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\" style=\"max-width: 300px\">\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/stateofhealth/2013/02/14/permission-to-forego-condoms-for-hiv-men-wanting-children/minasphoto/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-10613\">\u003cimg class=\"size-medium wp-image-10613\" title=\"\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/stateofhealth/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2013/02/MinasPhoto-300x199.jpg\" alt=\"Deon Brimmer, 32, is HIV positive and expecting a daughter. He’s being treated by a new San Francisco program that helps men with HIV safely realize their dreams of being dads. (Photo: Ryan Anson)\" width=\"300\" height=\"199\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Deon, 32, is HIV positive and expecting a daughter. He’s being treated at a new San Francisco program that helps men with HIV safely realize their dreams of being dads. (Photo: Ryan Anson)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The public health message around unprotected sex for those with HIV has always been the same: Don’t do it. Even with huge strides in medical science that’s changed HIV from a death sentence to a chronic but manageable disease, that directive has not changed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, a new program based in San Francisco is challenging this long-held campaign, and helping HIV-positive men have babies -- the conventional way. The program run by San Francisco General Hospital, called PRO Men, teaches men about a range of reproductive options, from adoption to in vitro fertilization -- where an egg is fertilized in a lab dish -- to carefully timed intercourse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I would say as an HIV provider community, we have really failed these men,” says UCSF professor Deborah Cohan, who runs the hospital's \u003ca href=\"http://www.sfghf.net/programs/bapac.html\" target=\"_blank\">Bay Area Perinatal AIDS Center\u003c/a> or BAPAC. “We really have not created programs to help them realize those goals and do so safely.”\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignright\">“It is one of the last big remaining hurdles that I think many heterosexual men and women have to what they would consider living a normal, ordinary life.”\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With the discovery of drugs to treat the virus, Cohan said people with HIV are living long, healthy lives. And for those who want to start families, having “safe” sex, Cohan said, can mean foregoing condoms when a female partner is ovulating. Women can also take HIV drugs, which some studies show can protect against the virus. (BAPAC has helped HIV-positive women who adhere to their medications have healthy babies for years.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We know that if the person who is positive takes antiretrovirals and their viral load is suppressed, meaning the medication is working at killing all the HIV in the blood, that the likelihood of them passing HIV to a sexual partner is essentially zero,” Cohan said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!--more-->\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Essentially zero” but not absolutely zero, Cohan says, because there’s some concern the virus can be in genital fluid even when it’s not detected in blood.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite this concern, couples are forging ahead with their family plans. Deon, 32, who thought his life was over when he tested HIV positive when he was in jail four years ago. Now he is about to welcome a baby girl with his fiancée Caroline. (Both Deon and Caroline preferred to go by their first names only.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The couple became pregnant through unprotected sexual intercourse. Caroline does not have HIV, so the baby does not either. And she said she’s really not too concerned about getting HIV from her partner.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He’s on his meds, and it’s a really, really, really low chance of me getting it,” she said. “And I just, like I love him, it’s not a big issue.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>BREAKING STIGMA\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Though it may not be a big issue for Caroline, being HIV positive and having unprotected sex runs counter to just about every public health message that’s been put out for decades. Both state public health officials and officials with the Centers for Disease Control declined to comment for this story. The \u003ca href=\"http://www.asrm.org/uploadedFiles/ASRM_Content/News_and_Publications/Ethics_Committee_Reports_and_Statements/hivethics.pdf\" target=\"_blank\">latest ethics report \u003c/a>from the research and advocacy group American Society for Reproductive Medicine called the practice, “unsafe” and “not recommended.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The San Francisco program is thought to be the first of its kind, and David Evans with the AIDS activist group Project Inform said it may stay that way for a while.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think stigma is still very, very strong in society about HIV in general.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Evans, who has been following HIV medical science for decades and pushes for policy changes, said that in some states, doctors have refused to help those with HIV have kids altogether. Until about two years ago, health officials in Mississippi required people who tested positive for the virus to sign a form saying they would never have children. Evans said a program that affirms the right of people with HIV to have kids, and let go of condoms, could be revolutionary.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think this really changes things in a quite dramatic way,” Evan said. “And it is one of the last big remaining hurdles that I think many heterosexual men and women have to what they would consider living a normal, ordinary life.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Case in point, as a typical father-to-be, Deon worries more about raising a daughter than he does about his HIV.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It's like 'Oh my god,’” he said. “I definitely want her to know all kinds of self-defense. I envision her to be a black belt in karate.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Caroline said she's confident they'll be good parents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We just have a really good relationship, like we really talk about everything,” she said. “He says I can make the decisions, but we make decisions together really, and things are just better when we're together.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The hospital treats about 500 straight men with HIV. The PRO Men program plans to launch a monthly support group in March that will also be open to men living outside San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Listen to Mina Kim's story\u003c/strong>:\u003cbr>\n\u003cobject width=\"335\" height=\"85\">\u003cparam name=\"movie\" value=\"http://www.kqed.org/assets/flash/kqedplayer.swf\">\u003cparam name=\"flashvars\" value=\"file=http://www.kqed.org/radio/archives/R201302151630b.xml\">\u003cembed src=\"http://www.kqed.org/assets/flash/kqedplayer.swf\" type=\"application/x-shockwave-flash\" width=\"335\" height=\"85\" flashvars=\"file=http://www.kqed.org/radio/archives/R201302151630b.xml\">\u003c/embed>\u003c/object>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>By Mina Kim\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_10613\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\" style=\"max-width: 300px\">\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/stateofhealth/2013/02/14/permission-to-forego-condoms-for-hiv-men-wanting-children/minasphoto/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-10613\">\u003cimg class=\"size-medium wp-image-10613\" title=\"\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/stateofhealth/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2013/02/MinasPhoto-300x199.jpg\" alt=\"Deon Brimmer, 32, is HIV positive and expecting a daughter. He’s being treated by a new San Francisco program that helps men with HIV safely realize their dreams of being dads. (Photo: Ryan Anson)\" width=\"300\" height=\"199\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Deon, 32, is HIV positive and expecting a daughter. He’s being treated at a new San Francisco program that helps men with HIV safely realize their dreams of being dads. (Photo: Ryan Anson)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The public health message around unprotected sex for those with HIV has always been the same: Don’t do it. Even with huge strides in medical science that’s changed HIV from a death sentence to a chronic but manageable disease, that directive has not changed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, a new program based in San Francisco is challenging this long-held campaign, and helping HIV-positive men have babies -- the conventional way. The program run by San Francisco General Hospital, called PRO Men, teaches men about a range of reproductive options, from adoption to in vitro fertilization -- where an egg is fertilized in a lab dish -- to carefully timed intercourse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I would say as an HIV provider community, we have really failed these men,” says UCSF professor Deborah Cohan, who runs the hospital's \u003ca href=\"http://www.sfghf.net/programs/bapac.html\" target=\"_blank\">Bay Area Perinatal AIDS Center\u003c/a> or BAPAC. “We really have not created programs to help them realize those goals and do so safely.”\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignright\">“It is one of the last big remaining hurdles that I think many heterosexual men and women have to what they would consider living a normal, ordinary life.”\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With the discovery of drugs to treat the virus, Cohan said people with HIV are living long, healthy lives. And for those who want to start families, having “safe” sex, Cohan said, can mean foregoing condoms when a female partner is ovulating. Women can also take HIV drugs, which some studies show can protect against the virus. (BAPAC has helped HIV-positive women who adhere to their medications have healthy babies for years.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We know that if the person who is positive takes antiretrovirals and their viral load is suppressed, meaning the medication is working at killing all the HIV in the blood, that the likelihood of them passing HIV to a sexual partner is essentially zero,” Cohan said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!--more-->\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Essentially zero” but not absolutely zero, Cohan says, because there’s some concern the virus can be in genital fluid even when it’s not detected in blood.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite this concern, couples are forging ahead with their family plans. Deon, 32, who thought his life was over when he tested HIV positive when he was in jail four years ago. Now he is about to welcome a baby girl with his fiancée Caroline. (Both Deon and Caroline preferred to go by their first names only.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The couple became pregnant through unprotected sexual intercourse. Caroline does not have HIV, so the baby does not either. And she said she’s really not too concerned about getting HIV from her partner.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He’s on his meds, and it’s a really, really, really low chance of me getting it,” she said. “And I just, like I love him, it’s not a big issue.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>BREAKING STIGMA\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Though it may not be a big issue for Caroline, being HIV positive and having unprotected sex runs counter to just about every public health message that’s been put out for decades. Both state public health officials and officials with the Centers for Disease Control declined to comment for this story. The \u003ca href=\"http://www.asrm.org/uploadedFiles/ASRM_Content/News_and_Publications/Ethics_Committee_Reports_and_Statements/hivethics.pdf\" target=\"_blank\">latest ethics report \u003c/a>from the research and advocacy group American Society for Reproductive Medicine called the practice, “unsafe” and “not recommended.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The San Francisco program is thought to be the first of its kind, and David Evans with the AIDS activist group Project Inform said it may stay that way for a while.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think stigma is still very, very strong in society about HIV in general.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Evans, who has been following HIV medical science for decades and pushes for policy changes, said that in some states, doctors have refused to help those with HIV have kids altogether. Until about two years ago, health officials in Mississippi required people who tested positive for the virus to sign a form saying they would never have children. Evans said a program that affirms the right of people with HIV to have kids, and let go of condoms, could be revolutionary.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think this really changes things in a quite dramatic way,” Evan said. “And it is one of the last big remaining hurdles that I think many heterosexual men and women have to what they would consider living a normal, ordinary life.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Case in point, as a typical father-to-be, Deon worries more about raising a daughter than he does about his HIV.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It's like 'Oh my god,’” he said. “I definitely want her to know all kinds of self-defense. I envision her to be a black belt in karate.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Caroline said she's confident they'll be good parents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We just have a really good relationship, like we really talk about everything,” she said. “He says I can make the decisions, but we make decisions together really, and things are just better when we're together.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The hospital treats about 500 straight men with HIV. The PRO Men program plans to launch a monthly support group in March that will also be open to men living outside San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Listen to Mina Kim's story\u003c/strong>:\u003cbr>\n\u003cobject width=\"335\" height=\"85\">\u003cparam name=\"movie\" value=\"http://www.kqed.org/assets/flash/kqedplayer.swf\">\u003cparam name=\"flashvars\" value=\"file=http://www.kqed.org/radio/archives/R201302151630b.xml\">\u003cembed src=\"http://www.kqed.org/assets/flash/kqedplayer.swf\" type=\"application/x-shockwave-flash\" width=\"335\" height=\"85\" flashvars=\"file=http://www.kqed.org/radio/archives/R201302151630b.xml\">\u003c/embed>\u003c/object>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
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"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
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"marketplace": {
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"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
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"mindshift": {
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"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
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"order": 12
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"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
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"perspectives": {
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"tagline": "Politics from a personal perspective",
"info": "Political Breakdown is a new series that explores the political intersection of California and the nation. Each week hosts Scott Shafer and Marisa Lagos are joined with a new special guest to unpack politics -- with personality — and offer an insider’s glimpse at how politics happens.",
"airtime": "THU 6:30pm-7pm",
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"possible": {
"id": "possible",
"title": "Possible",
"info": "Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? Each episode also includes a short fiction story generated by advanced AI GPT-4, serving as a thought-provoking springboard to speculate how humanity could leverage technology for good.",
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"pri-the-world": {
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"title": "PRI's The World: Latest Edition",
"info": "Each weekday, host Marco Werman and his team of producers bring you the world's most interesting stories in an hour of radio that reminds us just how small our planet really is.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 2pm-3pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-World-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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},
"radiolab": {
"id": "radiolab",
"title": "Radiolab",
"info": "A two-time Peabody Award-winner, Radiolab is an investigation told through sounds and stories, and centered around one big idea. In the Radiolab world, information sounds like music and science and culture collide. Hosted by Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich, the show is designed for listeners who demand skepticism, but appreciate wonder. WNYC Studios is the producer of other leading podcasts including Freakonomics Radio, Death, Sex & Money, On the Media and many more.",
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},
"reveal": {
"id": "reveal",
"title": "Reveal",
"info": "Created by The Center for Investigative Reporting and PRX, Reveal is public radios first one-hour weekly radio show and podcast dedicated to investigative reporting. Credible, fact based and without a partisan agenda, Reveal combines the power and artistry of driveway moment storytelling with data-rich reporting on critically important issues. The result is stories that inform and inspire, arming our listeners with information to right injustices, hold the powerful accountable and improve lives.Reveal is hosted by Al Letson and showcases the award-winning work of CIR and newsrooms large and small across the nation. In a radio and podcast market crowded with choices, Reveal focuses on important and often surprising stories that illuminate the world for our listeners.",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.revealnews.org/episodes/",
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