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"slug": "fairfax-votes-no-in-recall-election-about-housing",
"title": "Fairfax Votes 'No' In Recall Election About Housing",
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"content": "\u003cp class=\"e-91036-text encore-text-body-medium\" data-encore-id=\"text\" data-slate-node=\"element\">\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-brPLxw gubhrO\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">The latest Bay Area recall election took place in the Marin County town of Fairfax this November, where some residents hoped to oust the mayor and vice mayor for \u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003ca class=\"e-91036-text-link e-91036-baseline e-91036-overflow-wrap-anywhere encore-internal-color-text-announcement e-91036-text-link--use-focus sc-ihgnxF fGbrTd\" href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12061468/the-latest-bay-area-recall-campaign-is-over-a-six-story-apartment-building\" data-encore-id=\"textLink\" data-slate-node=\"element\" data-slate-inline=\"true\">\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-brPLxw gubhrO\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">\u003cu>voting to rezone land for a six-story apartment building.\u003c/u>\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"e-91036-text encore-text-body-medium\" data-encore-id=\"text\" data-slate-node=\"element\" data-slate-fragment=\"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\">\u003cspan data-slate-node=\"text\">\u003cspan class=\"sc-brPLxw gubhrO\" data-slate-leaf=\"true\">This time, the recall failed, with roughly 56% of voters opting to keep Mayor Lisel Blash and Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman. KQED’s Izzy Bloom breaks down this story and explains what this fight over housing in Fairfax could mean for the entire region.\u003c/span>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp data-encore-id=\"text\" data-slate-node=\"element\" data-slate-fragment=\"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\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC9586793910&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:49] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara and welcome to the Bay local news to keep you rooted. The Bay Area is no stranger to recalls, but what’s rare is a recall that fails. And this past election, a recall vote took place in the small Marin County town of Fairfax, where a group of residents hoped to boot out the mayor and vice mayor over a six-story apartment building proposed for the edge of downtown. And not only did the recall fail, but it was personal in a way that other Bay Area recalls were.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mayor Lisel Blash: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:32] \u003c/em>People hear about East Bay recalls or recalls in San Francisco, and I’m sure those are painful for the recallees, but this is like a really tiny town. So I see people, my neighbors, people in the supermarket, it just really feels very personal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:51] \u003c/em>Today, the recall in Fairfax and why what happens here over housing is worth watching.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:12] \u003c/em>When I went down to Fairfax, most people said that this has really divided their community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:17] \u003c/em>Izzy Bloom is a politics reporter and producer for KQED’s Political Breakdown Podcast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:24] \u003c/em>The recall effort targeted Fairfax Mayor Liesl Blash and its Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman. I went down a few weeks before the election and along with all of the Halloween decorations and people’s yards, you know, up and down the street, there were all these yes on recall, no recall signs, often at houses right next to each other. And so it’s really pitted neighbors against each other\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:50] \u003c/em>Izzy, before we get into this recall election that happened a couple of weeks ago, tell me a little bit more about the town of Fairfax.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:59] \u003c/em>You know, Fairfax is this really small, charming town in Marin County. It’s about 7,500 residents. It tends to be a little bit more white, higher income. It’s known also for a lot of artists and musicians who’ve been priced out of town because of the high housing costs. It’s nestled in the foothills of Mount Tamalpais. It’s know as the birthplace for mountain biking and also for its progressive politics. But at the same time, Fairfax, like a lot of Marin County, has really high housing costs. And so I felt like there were some interesting conflicts here where residents say they want affordable housing in their town, but they’re also pushing back against high density housing developments. And I think residents know that they have a bit of a reputation as NIMBY. One of the recall organizers said that he thinks that sort of like stunts the conversation. He says they’re a little bit more MIMBY So ‘maybe in my backyard,’ instead of ‘no in my back yard.’\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:03:58] \u003c/em>In other words, it is Marin County.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:01] \u003c/em>It is Marin County, yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:03] \u003c/em>A place that is notorious for not building enough housing. Let’s step back a little bit, Izzy, and talk about the rationale behind this recall. As we were just talking about, Marin County has never built enough housing, tell me a little more about why the recall was happening in the first place.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:23] \u003c/em>Last November, developer Mill Creek Residential submitted a preliminary application to build this 243 unit, six story apartment building in downtown Fairfax. And that would include four levels of residential, two levels of parking, and then the ground floor would be commercial space. And then 49 of those units would be marked as affordable, which is about like $1,900 to $2,500 a month for a studio.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:53] \u003c/em>Oh, God.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:53] \u003c/em>So, you know, I met recall organizers before the election at this local pub in Fairfax called Naves Bar where the recall leader Candice Neal-Ricker manages\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Candace Neal-Ricker: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:08] \u003c/em>I am local, ultra-low-income, born-and-raised Fairfaxian that could not afford what they are proposing there. This is serious.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:17] \u003c/em>One of her criticisms is that, first of all, there’s not enough affordable housing included in this development proposal, and also that she doesn’t really think it is affordable like it wouldn’t be affordable to her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Candace Neal-Ricker: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:28] \u003c/em>I couldn’t afford the 2,700 month studio apartment. So this is not affordable housing. This is a shill of\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:36] \u003c/em>I think really at the heart of this recall was the high density housing development.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:41] \u003c/em>I know a lot of people were actually really, didn’t like how this development would look, right? Tell me a little bit more about how residents were feeling when this housing development was proposed and what were some of the other arguments that you heard about their opposition to it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:01] \u003c/em>A lot of people definitely said it wouldn’t fit the esthetic of Fairfax. Multiple people referred to it as a monstrosity. And even the vice mayor, Stephanie Hellman, who faced a recall, described the design as cheap and ugly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:19] \u003c/em>There’s problems with it. Design-wise, it’s cookie cutter, doesn’t fit with the design and, you know, esthetic or character of the town.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:30] \u003c/em>This site that it was slated for, it’s called School Street Plaza. It’s this two acre plot of land that’s on a bit of a hill right at the edge of town. And a six story building there really would tower over the town and it would block some residents views of the hills. Other than that, some of the big concerns for the development is that it would cause issues for parking. And the recall petition also said that, it would bring this influx of cars to Fairfax that would create a death trap if there was a wildfire or an earthquake.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:07] \u003c/em>When did this opposition to this housing development then spiral into a recall? Like what were the events that sort of triggered the recall?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:19] \u003c/em>Last year, the town council voted to rezone the school street site. The state is putting a lot of pressure on local governments to meet housing demands in order to ease California’s housing crisis, or else they’ll take away some of their permitting and zoning authority or, you know, hit them with fines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:40] \u003c/em>And the council voted to rezone the land in order to move forward with it, and people didn’t like that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:47] \u003c/em>They didn’t. Another thing that recall organizers were upset about is that the council processed the development under what’s called ministerial review. Ministerial review is a way to fast track housing developments by allowing them to bypass public hearings and review under the California Environmental Quality Act.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:08] \u003c/em>So, then this recall is on the ballot. What was Candice’s argument for the recall?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:17] \u003c/em>I think the biggest thing that Candice and other recall organizers were saying is that their elected officials just were out of touch with constituents’ desires.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Candace Neal-Ricker: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:28] \u003c/em>As you recall, it was 100% about getting back to basics and listening to the constituents, the voters of Fairfax, the taxpayers. Council members are not gods. And something that has happened here in Fairfax is they’ve forgotten who they work for and what they were elected to represent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:47] \u003c/em>What I really felt like I kept hearing is that, even though there are these state mandates, they wanted their representatives to push back on the state more than they did and listen to what their constituents wanted. I think they really felt like they just rolled over.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Candace Neal-Ricker: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:09:05] \u003c/em>We can do better here at Fairfax. We can get back to some basics. I believe we can meet the affordable housing needs of the state in a much better way. Again, like as town council members, you’re city planners and city hall and the planning commission, these are your jobs. And to manage them is your elected positions. So it’s a complete sellout to the developers, 100%.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:09:32] \u003c/em>Coming up, the arguments against the recall in Fairfax, and why it ultimately failed. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:37] \u003c/em>Well, let’s talk now, Izzy, about the arguments against the recall campaign. What was Liesl Blash and Stephanie Hellman’s main argument against the Recall, like at its core?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:50] \u003c/em>Blash and Hellman really said that their hands were tied. You know, they have this state mandate to permit for 490 new units by 2031. And if they don’t make progress towards that, they could face litigation from the state, fines of up to $600,000 a month, and they could even lose some of their permitting and zoning authority.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:12] \u003c/em>All of my actions have been to protect the town from litigation, penalties, and fines. I’m not happy about a lot of these laws, but I didn’t run for office to break the law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:26] \u003c/em>Vice Mayor Hellman said that she really felt like the state was ready to make an example out of Fairfax for this sort of perception that Marin County has not met up with housing demands and helped contribute to state efforts to resolve California’s housing crisis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:45] \u003c/em>I truly believe that the state and lots of jurisdictions are looking at Fairfax right now as a test case and it’s not about saving me, it’s about saving the town from fiscal ruin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:58] \u003c/em>I also have to ask, the recall was, it seemed like over this new housing development, but the recall wouldn’t have actually stopped the complex from being built, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:12:12] \u003c/em>Yeah, I think that’s something that really interested me about this story. It kind of reminds me of what happened in San Francisco’s Sunset District with Supervisor Joel Engardio, who his recall campaign was about his support for closing part of the Great Highway to create the Sunset Dunes Park. And he ultimately was recalled, but it had no impact on what ultimately happened with the park. And in this situation, recalling the mayor and vice mayor wouldn’t impact whether or not this proposal ultimately gets approved or denied. It’s not really up to them. And so I think the recall was a lot more about residents telling local electeds, hey, we don’t agree with your policy decisions and we want you to listen to us, your constituents, not the state. I do think that we’re seeing more and more recalls that are about residents expressing dissatisfaction rather than a being about some specific malfeasance or corruption.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:13:13] \u003c/em>Yeah, and I mean, if a recall in a place like Fairfax that is so small, I can imagine, has made such a big impact on the town and on the community. But that said, the mayor and the vice mayor seem to have made a pretty convincing argument that they have to build this development, even if people don’t like it, right? And the recall ultimately did not succeed?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:13:39] \u003c/em>Yeah, I think that message actually really got out to people that recalling them would not change what happens with this housing development. And it actually was a pretty decisive victory for Blash and Hellman. About 55% to 56% of voters said no on the recall.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:13:58] \u003c/em>I’ve already started to reach out to folks who were vocally in support of the recall to just listen and hear their perspectives and start to build bridges.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:10] \u003c/em>Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman, you know, really said that the No on Recall campaign did a lot of work to educate the residents of Fairfax about basically that, you know, the mayor and vice mayor aren’t supportive of this housing development and that it is just them trying to protect the town.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:29] \u003c/em>There was a handful of residents who really did a lot of work to educate the community on how much local control we’ve really lost. We were all about protecting the town from severe penalties, from losing our housing element certification, which basically gives developers free reign with very, very little, if any, local control.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:57] \u003c/em>It does seem like when I saw the results of this story, it did feel very surprising and rare. I guess, what do you make of that result?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:15:09] \u003c/em>Yeah, I actually think in some ways it was pretty surprising. You know, I looked through Ballotpedia’s list of failed recalls in the Bay Area. And in the past decade, this is only the second to fail. Mayor Liesl Blash said that she thinks one thing that made Fairfax different from some of these other recalls in the bay area is just that it’s such a small community. The divisiveness was a lot more visible to residents and it was a little more personal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mayor Lisel Blash: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:15:37] \u003c/em>It’s been, like, a huge amount of time and money on all sides. It’s created incredible stress in Fairfax, and it’s really a time for people to come back together, you know, not keep driving this wedge between us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:15:50] \u003c/em>Prop 50, she thinks, really helped bring out more voters, and that high turnout really helped them, which I think is possible, you know, that otherwise maybe more motivated people to recall the mayor and vice mayor would have turned out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mayor Lisel Blash: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:04] \u003c/em>And I think people are weary of the crazy shenanigans and they wanna get back to a more normal environment. You know, it’s been like three solid years of negativity and I think we just have to say this is over. We just need to move on as a community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:18] \u003c/em>Was there any response from the pro-recall campaign? Did they have any thoughts on why they ultimately lost this recall?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:29] \u003c/em>They texted me a written statement saying they were obviously disappointed with the results, but that they do feel the recall forced a real conversation about the future of Fairfax and led the town council to confront issues like high density housing and take meaningful action to address them. And they just said they’ll continue to push for better decisions at town hall that works for the residents of FairFax.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:52] \u003c/em>I guess my last question for you, Izzy, how would you explain why, what happens from here on out in Fairfax is relevant to the rest of the region?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:17:03] \u003c/em>California right now is really grappling with how they’re going to solve the housing crisis. And Marin County tends to be a bit of a poster child for fighting back against that, but we’re seeing this trend of local power shifting away from local governments to the state when it comes to making housing decisions. And I think residents are just sort of becoming aware of that. And we’ll see whether they use recalls as a tool to push back against it. I mean, Blash said that she thinks there will always be. A group of people in Fairfax who don’t want high-density housing, but she does think one of the messages from the election is that there’s a growing consensus among the town that they do need more housing, they just want to have input on what that looks like.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mayor Lisel Blash: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:17:58] \u003c/em>I think one of the things that really came out of this was that people learned that there are state mandates around housing and that that may not be the decision of their council per se, but that we are all facing, you know, a new environment around housing laws. And I think people really learned that from all of the press coverage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:18:21] \u003c/em>Well, Izzy, thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:18:24] \u003c/em>Thank you so much\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:49] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara and welcome to the Bay local news to keep you rooted. The Bay Area is no stranger to recalls, but what’s rare is a recall that fails. And this past election, a recall vote took place in the small Marin County town of Fairfax, where a group of residents hoped to boot out the mayor and vice mayor over a six-story apartment building proposed for the edge of downtown. And not only did the recall fail, but it was personal in a way that other Bay Area recalls were.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mayor Lisel Blash: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:32] \u003c/em>People hear about East Bay recalls or recalls in San Francisco, and I’m sure those are painful for the recallees, but this is like a really tiny town. So I see people, my neighbors, people in the supermarket, it just really feels very personal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:51] \u003c/em>Today, the recall in Fairfax and why what happens here over housing is worth watching.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:12] \u003c/em>When I went down to Fairfax, most people said that this has really divided their community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:17] \u003c/em>Izzy Bloom is a politics reporter and producer for KQED’s Political Breakdown Podcast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:24] \u003c/em>The recall effort targeted Fairfax Mayor Liesl Blash and its Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman. I went down a few weeks before the election and along with all of the Halloween decorations and people’s yards, you know, up and down the street, there were all these yes on recall, no recall signs, often at houses right next to each other. And so it’s really pitted neighbors against each other\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:50] \u003c/em>Izzy, before we get into this recall election that happened a couple of weeks ago, tell me a little bit more about the town of Fairfax.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:59] \u003c/em>You know, Fairfax is this really small, charming town in Marin County. It’s about 7,500 residents. It tends to be a little bit more white, higher income. It’s known also for a lot of artists and musicians who’ve been priced out of town because of the high housing costs. It’s nestled in the foothills of Mount Tamalpais. It’s know as the birthplace for mountain biking and also for its progressive politics. But at the same time, Fairfax, like a lot of Marin County, has really high housing costs. And so I felt like there were some interesting conflicts here where residents say they want affordable housing in their town, but they’re also pushing back against high density housing developments. And I think residents know that they have a bit of a reputation as NIMBY. One of the recall organizers said that he thinks that sort of like stunts the conversation. He says they’re a little bit more MIMBY So ‘maybe in my backyard,’ instead of ‘no in my back yard.’\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:03:58] \u003c/em>In other words, it is Marin County.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:01] \u003c/em>It is Marin County, yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:03] \u003c/em>A place that is notorious for not building enough housing. Let’s step back a little bit, Izzy, and talk about the rationale behind this recall. As we were just talking about, Marin County has never built enough housing, tell me a little more about why the recall was happening in the first place.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:23] \u003c/em>Last November, developer Mill Creek Residential submitted a preliminary application to build this 243 unit, six story apartment building in downtown Fairfax. And that would include four levels of residential, two levels of parking, and then the ground floor would be commercial space. And then 49 of those units would be marked as affordable, which is about like $1,900 to $2,500 a month for a studio.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:53] \u003c/em>Oh, God.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:53] \u003c/em>So, you know, I met recall organizers before the election at this local pub in Fairfax called Naves Bar where the recall leader Candice Neal-Ricker manages\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Candace Neal-Ricker: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:08] \u003c/em>I am local, ultra-low-income, born-and-raised Fairfaxian that could not afford what they are proposing there. This is serious.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:17] \u003c/em>One of her criticisms is that, first of all, there’s not enough affordable housing included in this development proposal, and also that she doesn’t really think it is affordable like it wouldn’t be affordable to her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Candace Neal-Ricker: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:28] \u003c/em>I couldn’t afford the 2,700 month studio apartment. So this is not affordable housing. This is a shill of\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:36] \u003c/em>I think really at the heart of this recall was the high density housing development.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:41] \u003c/em>I know a lot of people were actually really, didn’t like how this development would look, right? Tell me a little bit more about how residents were feeling when this housing development was proposed and what were some of the other arguments that you heard about their opposition to it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:01] \u003c/em>A lot of people definitely said it wouldn’t fit the esthetic of Fairfax. Multiple people referred to it as a monstrosity. And even the vice mayor, Stephanie Hellman, who faced a recall, described the design as cheap and ugly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:19] \u003c/em>There’s problems with it. Design-wise, it’s cookie cutter, doesn’t fit with the design and, you know, esthetic or character of the town.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:30] \u003c/em>This site that it was slated for, it’s called School Street Plaza. It’s this two acre plot of land that’s on a bit of a hill right at the edge of town. And a six story building there really would tower over the town and it would block some residents views of the hills. Other than that, some of the big concerns for the development is that it would cause issues for parking. And the recall petition also said that, it would bring this influx of cars to Fairfax that would create a death trap if there was a wildfire or an earthquake.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:07] \u003c/em>When did this opposition to this housing development then spiral into a recall? Like what were the events that sort of triggered the recall?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:19] \u003c/em>Last year, the town council voted to rezone the school street site. The state is putting a lot of pressure on local governments to meet housing demands in order to ease California’s housing crisis, or else they’ll take away some of their permitting and zoning authority or, you know, hit them with fines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:40] \u003c/em>And the council voted to rezone the land in order to move forward with it, and people didn’t like that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:47] \u003c/em>They didn’t. Another thing that recall organizers were upset about is that the council processed the development under what’s called ministerial review. Ministerial review is a way to fast track housing developments by allowing them to bypass public hearings and review under the California Environmental Quality Act.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:08] \u003c/em>So, then this recall is on the ballot. What was Candice’s argument for the recall?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:17] \u003c/em>I think the biggest thing that Candice and other recall organizers were saying is that their elected officials just were out of touch with constituents’ desires.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Candace Neal-Ricker: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:28] \u003c/em>As you recall, it was 100% about getting back to basics and listening to the constituents, the voters of Fairfax, the taxpayers. Council members are not gods. And something that has happened here in Fairfax is they’ve forgotten who they work for and what they were elected to represent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:47] \u003c/em>What I really felt like I kept hearing is that, even though there are these state mandates, they wanted their representatives to push back on the state more than they did and listen to what their constituents wanted. I think they really felt like they just rolled over.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Candace Neal-Ricker: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:09:05] \u003c/em>We can do better here at Fairfax. We can get back to some basics. I believe we can meet the affordable housing needs of the state in a much better way. Again, like as town council members, you’re city planners and city hall and the planning commission, these are your jobs. And to manage them is your elected positions. So it’s a complete sellout to the developers, 100%.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:09:32] \u003c/em>Coming up, the arguments against the recall in Fairfax, and why it ultimately failed. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:37] \u003c/em>Well, let’s talk now, Izzy, about the arguments against the recall campaign. What was Liesl Blash and Stephanie Hellman’s main argument against the Recall, like at its core?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:50] \u003c/em>Blash and Hellman really said that their hands were tied. You know, they have this state mandate to permit for 490 new units by 2031. And if they don’t make progress towards that, they could face litigation from the state, fines of up to $600,000 a month, and they could even lose some of their permitting and zoning authority.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:12] \u003c/em>All of my actions have been to protect the town from litigation, penalties, and fines. I’m not happy about a lot of these laws, but I didn’t run for office to break the law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:26] \u003c/em>Vice Mayor Hellman said that she really felt like the state was ready to make an example out of Fairfax for this sort of perception that Marin County has not met up with housing demands and helped contribute to state efforts to resolve California’s housing crisis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:45] \u003c/em>I truly believe that the state and lots of jurisdictions are looking at Fairfax right now as a test case and it’s not about saving me, it’s about saving the town from fiscal ruin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:58] \u003c/em>I also have to ask, the recall was, it seemed like over this new housing development, but the recall wouldn’t have actually stopped the complex from being built, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:12:12] \u003c/em>Yeah, I think that’s something that really interested me about this story. It kind of reminds me of what happened in San Francisco’s Sunset District with Supervisor Joel Engardio, who his recall campaign was about his support for closing part of the Great Highway to create the Sunset Dunes Park. And he ultimately was recalled, but it had no impact on what ultimately happened with the park. And in this situation, recalling the mayor and vice mayor wouldn’t impact whether or not this proposal ultimately gets approved or denied. It’s not really up to them. And so I think the recall was a lot more about residents telling local electeds, hey, we don’t agree with your policy decisions and we want you to listen to us, your constituents, not the state. I do think that we’re seeing more and more recalls that are about residents expressing dissatisfaction rather than a being about some specific malfeasance or corruption.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:13:13] \u003c/em>Yeah, and I mean, if a recall in a place like Fairfax that is so small, I can imagine, has made such a big impact on the town and on the community. But that said, the mayor and the vice mayor seem to have made a pretty convincing argument that they have to build this development, even if people don’t like it, right? And the recall ultimately did not succeed?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:13:39] \u003c/em>Yeah, I think that message actually really got out to people that recalling them would not change what happens with this housing development. And it actually was a pretty decisive victory for Blash and Hellman. About 55% to 56% of voters said no on the recall.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:13:58] \u003c/em>I’ve already started to reach out to folks who were vocally in support of the recall to just listen and hear their perspectives and start to build bridges.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:10] \u003c/em>Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman, you know, really said that the No on Recall campaign did a lot of work to educate the residents of Fairfax about basically that, you know, the mayor and vice mayor aren’t supportive of this housing development and that it is just them trying to protect the town.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:29] \u003c/em>There was a handful of residents who really did a lot of work to educate the community on how much local control we’ve really lost. We were all about protecting the town from severe penalties, from losing our housing element certification, which basically gives developers free reign with very, very little, if any, local control.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:57] \u003c/em>It does seem like when I saw the results of this story, it did feel very surprising and rare. I guess, what do you make of that result?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:15:09] \u003c/em>Yeah, I actually think in some ways it was pretty surprising. You know, I looked through Ballotpedia’s list of failed recalls in the Bay Area. And in the past decade, this is only the second to fail. Mayor Liesl Blash said that she thinks one thing that made Fairfax different from some of these other recalls in the bay area is just that it’s such a small community. The divisiveness was a lot more visible to residents and it was a little more personal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mayor Lisel Blash: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:15:37] \u003c/em>It’s been, like, a huge amount of time and money on all sides. It’s created incredible stress in Fairfax, and it’s really a time for people to come back together, you know, not keep driving this wedge between us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:15:50] \u003c/em>Prop 50, she thinks, really helped bring out more voters, and that high turnout really helped them, which I think is possible, you know, that otherwise maybe more motivated people to recall the mayor and vice mayor would have turned out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mayor Lisel Blash: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:04] \u003c/em>And I think people are weary of the crazy shenanigans and they wanna get back to a more normal environment. You know, it’s been like three solid years of negativity and I think we just have to say this is over. We just need to move on as a community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:18] \u003c/em>Was there any response from the pro-recall campaign? Did they have any thoughts on why they ultimately lost this recall?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:29] \u003c/em>They texted me a written statement saying they were obviously disappointed with the results, but that they do feel the recall forced a real conversation about the future of Fairfax and led the town council to confront issues like high density housing and take meaningful action to address them. And they just said they’ll continue to push for better decisions at town hall that works for the residents of FairFax.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:52] \u003c/em>I guess my last question for you, Izzy, how would you explain why, what happens from here on out in Fairfax is relevant to the rest of the region?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:17:03] \u003c/em>California right now is really grappling with how they’re going to solve the housing crisis. And Marin County tends to be a bit of a poster child for fighting back against that, but we’re seeing this trend of local power shifting away from local governments to the state when it comes to making housing decisions. And I think residents are just sort of becoming aware of that. And we’ll see whether they use recalls as a tool to push back against it. I mean, Blash said that she thinks there will always be. A group of people in Fairfax who don’t want high-density housing, but she does think one of the messages from the election is that there’s a growing consensus among the town that they do need more housing, they just want to have input on what that looks like.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mayor Lisel Blash: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:17:58] \u003c/em>I think one of the things that really came out of this was that people learned that there are state mandates around housing and that that may not be the decision of their council per se, but that we are all facing, you know, a new environment around housing laws. And I think people really learned that from all of the press coverage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:18:21] \u003c/em>Well, Izzy, thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Izzy Bloom: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:18:24] \u003c/em>Thank you so much\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "fairfax-recall-of-mayor-vice-mayor-appears-poised-to-fail-early-returns-show",
"title": "Fairfax Recall of Mayor, Vice-Mayor Appears Poised to Fail, Early Returns Show",
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"headTitle": "Fairfax Recall of Mayor, Vice-Mayor Appears Poised to Fail, Early Returns Show | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>An attempt to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12061468/the-latest-bay-area-recall-campaign-is-over-a-six-story-apartment-building\">recall two North Bay officials over housing density\u003c/a> appears headed for failure, early ballot returns showed Wednesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A petition to recall Fairfax Mayor Lisel Blash and Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman accused the leaders of mismanaging money and ignoring infrastructure repairs in the small Marin County town, but at the center of the campaign was a referendum on their perceived support for a new six-story apartment complex proposed near the small town’s center.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite widespread anger over the development, the pair looked poised to hold onto their seats by wide \u003ca href=\"https://results.enr.clarityelections.com/CA/Marin/124182/web.345435/#/detail/3\">margins\u003c/a> on Wednesday morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The results look very encouraging and we are so thankful for our volunteers, community members, elected officials, and organizations who showed up and supported us,” they said in a joint statement. “We remain committed to a safe, affordable, fair Fairfax and look forward to all ballots being counted.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Recall supporters, who launched their campaign last March, have blamed Blash and Hellman for backing a rezoning plan that allowed developers to move forward with plans for the large apartment complex.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12061569\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-11-BL_qed.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12061569\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-11-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-11-BL_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-11-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-11-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A Halloween display plays on election-related content in Fairfax on Oct. 15, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Two other former council members who supported the zoning changes lost their seats on town council last November.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That month, development firm Mill Creek Residential submitted an application to build a 243-unit apartment building, plus two floors for parking and ground-floor commercial space, on a two-acre plot in downtown Fairfax, known as School Street Plaza. The plan has been unpopular with many of the 7,500 residents of the town, and Hellman herself told KQED last month that the “cookie-cutter” design looked out of place and was too tall for the area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But, she and Blash both said, the town needs to build more housing as the state’s deadline to meet certain housing requirements approaches. Fairfax is required to add more than 490 new homes by 2031.[aside postID=news_12061468 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-24-BL-KQED.jpg']The redevelopment is very much still in limbo — Fairfax’s planning director sent a letter to Mill Creek Residential last month \u003ca href=\"https://storage.googleapis.com/proudcity/fairfaxca/2025/10/ec4f9313-95-broadway-application-consistency-review-10-16-25.pdf\">threatening to deny the project\u003c/a> if developers didn’t address a number of issues in their proposal, which make it inconsistent with the town’s objective design standards, by Nov. 17. According to \u003ca href=\"https://storage.googleapis.com/proudcity/fairfaxca/2025/10/40fec0e1-6-95-broadway-response-to-hurd-letter-10-24-25.pdf\">a follow up letter\u003c/a>, the company’s attorney shot back with an email saying the town had blown past its 60-day window to vote on the project, and was therefore “deemed approved.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Recall organizers on Wednesday morning had not admitted defeat, saying in a statement that there were still hundreds of votes left to be counted.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We are committed to ensuring every last voice is heard before the outcome is determined,” they said via email. “Regardless of the final result, we are not going anywhere. Our movement will remain fully engaged in local government and ensure that the interests of our residents are represented by the Town Council. We can do better in Fairfax, and we are confident that, in time, we will see a return to common sense leadership in our community.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Either way, the recall results won’t have any direct impact on whether the School Street Plaza project ultimately goes forward. And, according to anti-recall advocate Chris Kent, the town will still have to face its housing crisis. If the town fails to add the units it’s required to by 2031, the state will step in to do so.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There are people who want to stop time in its tracks,” Kent said. “They’d like there to be no growth ever, but history shows us the growth happens anyway. We either do that intelligently and plan for how we’re going to manage growth or we try to fight the state when we don’t have the power to do that, or the sovereignty.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>KQED’s \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/ibloom\">\u003cem>Izzy Bloom\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem> and \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/aemslie\">\u003cem>Alex Emslie\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem> contributed to this report.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "The blistering recall attempt centered around a proposed housing development in the small Marin County town. ",
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"title": "Fairfax Recall of Mayor, Vice-Mayor Appears Poised to Fail, Early Returns Show | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>An attempt to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12061468/the-latest-bay-area-recall-campaign-is-over-a-six-story-apartment-building\">recall two North Bay officials over housing density\u003c/a> appears headed for failure, early ballot returns showed Wednesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A petition to recall Fairfax Mayor Lisel Blash and Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman accused the leaders of mismanaging money and ignoring infrastructure repairs in the small Marin County town, but at the center of the campaign was a referendum on their perceived support for a new six-story apartment complex proposed near the small town’s center.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite widespread anger over the development, the pair looked poised to hold onto their seats by wide \u003ca href=\"https://results.enr.clarityelections.com/CA/Marin/124182/web.345435/#/detail/3\">margins\u003c/a> on Wednesday morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The results look very encouraging and we are so thankful for our volunteers, community members, elected officials, and organizations who showed up and supported us,” they said in a joint statement. “We remain committed to a safe, affordable, fair Fairfax and look forward to all ballots being counted.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Recall supporters, who launched their campaign last March, have blamed Blash and Hellman for backing a rezoning plan that allowed developers to move forward with plans for the large apartment complex.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12061569\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-11-BL_qed.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12061569\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-11-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-11-BL_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-11-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-11-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A Halloween display plays on election-related content in Fairfax on Oct. 15, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Two other former council members who supported the zoning changes lost their seats on town council last November.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That month, development firm Mill Creek Residential submitted an application to build a 243-unit apartment building, plus two floors for parking and ground-floor commercial space, on a two-acre plot in downtown Fairfax, known as School Street Plaza. The plan has been unpopular with many of the 7,500 residents of the town, and Hellman herself told KQED last month that the “cookie-cutter” design looked out of place and was too tall for the area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But, she and Blash both said, the town needs to build more housing as the state’s deadline to meet certain housing requirements approaches. Fairfax is required to add more than 490 new homes by 2031.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The redevelopment is very much still in limbo — Fairfax’s planning director sent a letter to Mill Creek Residential last month \u003ca href=\"https://storage.googleapis.com/proudcity/fairfaxca/2025/10/ec4f9313-95-broadway-application-consistency-review-10-16-25.pdf\">threatening to deny the project\u003c/a> if developers didn’t address a number of issues in their proposal, which make it inconsistent with the town’s objective design standards, by Nov. 17. According to \u003ca href=\"https://storage.googleapis.com/proudcity/fairfaxca/2025/10/40fec0e1-6-95-broadway-response-to-hurd-letter-10-24-25.pdf\">a follow up letter\u003c/a>, the company’s attorney shot back with an email saying the town had blown past its 60-day window to vote on the project, and was therefore “deemed approved.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Recall organizers on Wednesday morning had not admitted defeat, saying in a statement that there were still hundreds of votes left to be counted.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We are committed to ensuring every last voice is heard before the outcome is determined,” they said via email. “Regardless of the final result, we are not going anywhere. Our movement will remain fully engaged in local government and ensure that the interests of our residents are represented by the Town Council. We can do better in Fairfax, and we are confident that, in time, we will see a return to common sense leadership in our community.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Either way, the recall results won’t have any direct impact on whether the School Street Plaza project ultimately goes forward. And, according to anti-recall advocate Chris Kent, the town will still have to face its housing crisis. If the town fails to add the units it’s required to by 2031, the state will step in to do so.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There are people who want to stop time in its tracks,” Kent said. “They’d like there to be no growth ever, but history shows us the growth happens anyway. We either do that intelligently and plan for how we’re going to manage growth or we try to fight the state when we don’t have the power to do that, or the sovereignty.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>KQED’s \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/ibloom\">\u003cem>Izzy Bloom\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem> and \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/aemslie\">\u003cem>Alex Emslie\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem> contributed to this report.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "the-latest-bay-area-recall-campaign-is-over-a-six-story-apartment-building",
"title": "The Latest Bay Area Recall Campaign Is Over a 6-Story Apartment Building",
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"content": "\u003cp>It’s spooky season in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/marin-county\">Marin County\u003c/a> town of Fairfax, where skeletons and pumpkins take up their positions in yards, right alongside signs urging residents to “Vote Yes to Recall” or “Vote No Recalls.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On Nov. 4, voters will decide whether to recall Fairfax’s mayor and vice mayor over their approval of a six-story apartment complex — a decision that’s divided this small town of about 7,500 residents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://storage.googleapis.com/proudcity/fairfaxca/2025/04/Notice-of-Intent-to-Circulate-a-Recall-Petition-Hellman-3-6-25.pdf\">recall petition\u003c/a> accuses Mayor Lisel Blash and Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman of mismanaging funds, neglecting road maintenance and prioritizing their personal agendas. But at the heart of the recall is a high-density housing development proposed for a 2-acre site called School Street Plaza.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last November, developer Mill Creek Residential submitted a preliminary application to build a 243-unit apartment complex at School Street Plaza, with 49 affordable housing units priced between about \u003ca href=\"https://storage.googleapis.com/proudcity/sanrafaelca/2024/07/2024-affordable-rent-schedule-50-60-65-7075-80-90-100-AMI.pdf\">$1,900 to $2,500 a month\u003c/a> for a studio. The proposal includes two levels of parking and commercial space on the ground floor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Residents immediately pushed back. The development site sits on a hill at the edge of downtown Fairfax. A six-story building would tower over the town, where most buildings are one or two stories and the tallest reaches just four stories, and would block many residents’ views of the rolling hills.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12060488\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12060488 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-37-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-37-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-37-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-37-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Fairfax Theater in Fairfax, California, on Oct. 15, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Recall proponents blame Blash, who was elected to the council in 2022, and Hellman, who has served since 2019, for approving zoning changes to School Street Plaza that allowed the housing proposal to move forward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last year, voters replaced two council members who had approved the rezoning with Mike Ghiringhelli and Frank Egger, who both opposed taller buildings. Egger told KQED he will vote Yes on the recall.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Blash and Hellman argue their hands were tied. State housing mandates require Fairfax to approve a housing plan, or “housing element,” for \u003ca href=\"https://townoffairfaxca.gov/town-of-fairfax-files-regional-housing-needs-allocation-rhna-appeal/\">at least 490 new homes by 2031\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12061569\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12061569\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-11-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-11-BL_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-11-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-11-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A Halloween display plays on election related content in Fairfax on Oct. 15, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>If the town fails to make progress toward meeting its required housing allocation, it could \u003ca href=\"https://assets.marincounty.gov/marincounty-prod/public/2025-06/The%20Worrisome%20Future%20of%20Marin%20Housing.pdf\">face lawsuits, fines of up to $600,000 a month and a loss of permitting and zoning authority\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The push to unseat Blash and Hellman is the latest in a string of Bay Area recall campaigns, where frustrated residents have increasingly turned to recalls to express their dissatisfaction with political leaders.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The fight also underscores a fundamental shift in California housing policy, as new state laws steadily erode local control in favor of state mandates.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>A small town divided\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Fairfax, nestled in the foothills of Mount Tamalpais, is known as the cradle of mountain biking and was once an oasis for artists and musicians, who have since been priced out of the town. Many people find the charming homes along winding, redwood-forested streets a desirable place to settle down and raise kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ian Glover, 47, who’s lived in Fairfax for five years, was among families shopping at a recent Wednesday evening farmers market in Bolinas Park. Glover had initially signed the recall petition, believing it would block the School Street apartment complex. The property’s former occupants included a school, a marijuana dispensary and community hot tubs and saunas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12060959\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12060959\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/School-Street-Plaza-Plaza-View-2-04.16.2025-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1125\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/School-Street-Plaza-Plaza-View-2-04.16.2025-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/School-Street-Plaza-Plaza-View-2-04.16.2025-KQED-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/School-Street-Plaza-Plaza-View-2-04.16.2025-KQED-1536x864.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The proposed 6-story housing development at 95 Broadway in Fairfax includes 4 stories of apartment units, 2 levels for parking and commercial space on the ground floor. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Stackhouse De la Peña Trachtenberg Architects)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“I don’t want to see a big high-rise. I don’t want to see more traffic,” Glover said as he offered his 2.5-year-old son some pomegranate seeds and melon slices. Even though he believes apartments and cheap housing benefit the community, Glover said he’d prefer the site become something that preserves the town’s character. “I’d rather see it be a cool school again or … the hot tub place was funky.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Many residents share his sentiment. Some call the building proposal a “monstrosity.” Even Vice Mayor Hellman agrees it’s too tall and would look out of place.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Design-wise, it’s cookie-cutter, cheap, ugly, doesn’t fit within the design and aesthetic or character of the town,” Hellman said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12060487\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12060487\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-33-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-33-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-33-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-33-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman poses for a photo at her home in Fairfax on Oct. 15, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Wendy Lee, 64, has lived in Fairfax for nearly 40 years, raised three kids there and now has three grandchildren. Lee is against the recall, but like many residents, she doesn’t like the development.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t want to be a NIMBY because I know Marin County, we need low-income housing,” Lee said. “But I also don’t think that a six-story apartment building should be smack downtown on that little hill rise.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Along with concerns about parking and traffic, recall supporters contend the project could create a “death trap” in the event of a wildfire, flood or earthquake.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We have one road in and out in case of fire coming from West Marin,” said recall treasurer Sean Fitzgerald. “We have to go through four other towns to get out to the freeway.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12060483\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12060483\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-23-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-23-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-23-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-23-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Michael Mackintosh (left) and Sean Fitzgerald speak with fellow supporters of the recall of Mayor Lisel Blash and Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman at Nave’s Bar and Grill in Fairfax on Oct. 15, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Riley Hurd, a land use attorney representing Mill Creek, said he isn’t surprised by the town’s pushback on the School Street proposal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That’s been the Fairfax way for decades and decades,” he said. “That’s why nothing ever gets built there.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The debate over the recall has driven a wedge between neighbors and strained friendships in the tight-knit community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This has totally splintered our town,” Lee said. “It’s so sad.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Council meetings have turned “ugly and vitriolic,” Blash said, with people yelling, pounding chairs and waving their fists.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12060480\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12060480\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-09-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-09-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-09-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-09-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Fairfax Mayor Lisel Blash at her home in Fairfax on Oct. 15, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“People talk about gnawing on our necks, or lynching us or tar and feathering us,” Blash said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’ve had days where it’s really taken a toll on my mental health for sure,” Hellman added. “I’ve had days where I’ve thought about quitting.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hellman installed a new security system after a few recall organizers showed up at her house. Blash stopped walking home from meetings at night and no longer goes to her favorite coffee shop, now that its windows are plastered with pro-recall signs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“People hear about East Bay recalls or recalls in San Francisco, and I’m sure those are painful for the recallees, but this is a really tiny town,” she said. “It just really feels very personal.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Bay Area recall fever\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The campaign to oust Blash and Hellman joins a growing list of Bay Area recalls since the pandemic, including the removal of three school board members in San Francisco and the city’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11916212/chesa-boudin-recall-sf-voters-on-track-to-oust-district-attorney\">District Attorney Chesa Boudin\u003c/a> in 2022.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last year, voters recalled \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11992881/recall-of-two-sunol-school-board-members-appears-headed-to-victory\">two more school board members in Sunol\u003c/a>, Alameda County \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12013442/alameda-county-voters-recall-district-attorney-pamela-price\">District Attorney Pamela Price\u003c/a> and Oakland \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12012357/sheng-thao-accepts-defeat-in-contentious-oakland-mayoral-recall\">Mayor Sheng Thao\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12060479\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12060479\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-03-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-03-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-03-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-03-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Signs for and against the recall of Fairfax Mayor Lisel Blash and Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman sit outside a 7-Eleven in Fairfax on Oct. 15, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In September, residents in San Francisco’s Sunset District \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12056059/supervisor-joel-engardio-is-out-whats-next-for-san-franciscos-sunset-district\">recalled Supervisor Joel Engardio\u003c/a> over his support for closing part of the Great Highway to turn it into a park. His removal did not alter the highway’s closure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Mark Baldassare, a director at the Public Policy Institute of California, said local recalls offer residents a tool to effect change. They’re far harder to pull off at the state level and they don’t exist at the federal level.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“COVID put the emphasis on local government as being both the solution and in some cases the problem,” Baldassare said. “As that’s taken place, it’s also become apparent to a lot of people that an option is the recall.”[aside postID=news_12012553 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/10/GETTYIMAGES-1244095544-KQED-1020x680.jpg']Fairfax recall organizers received guidance from Chris Moore and Edward Escobar, who helped lead the recalls of Price and Thao. Fitzgerald said they sought their advice after their initial petition was rejected by the town clerk and town attorney over technical errors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They came out, they shared with us what they had done successfully for free,” Fitzgerald said. “We’ve done this all 100% grassroots.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Moore said he spent a few hours with recall organizers in the spring, advising them on messaging strategies, how to gather signatures and volunteers and recommending an attorney. Since then, he’s answered one or two questions a month over text.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I wasn’t active in day-to-day activity,” Moore said. “I just kind of say, ‘OK, here’s what we did in that scenario.’ But largely they’ve run it up there themselves.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In July, recall supporters held a rally, which Moore and Escobar attended. Escobar said he helped “orchestrate” a press conference, reaching out to reporters to cover the event.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“All we do is amplify the voice of the people,” Escobar said. “These folks are, they’re weeds that need to be pulled out of office.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>A shift in housing policy\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Recall organizers often meet at Nave’s Bar, a downtown pub managed by recall leader Candace Neal-Ricker, which they jokingly call their “newsroom.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I am your local, ultra-low-income, born and raised Fairfaxian that could not afford what they are proposing there,” Neal-Ricker said as she poured drinks and rang up customers on a 1967 vintage cash register. If the development had included “truly affordable” housing with fewer stories, she said she would’ve supported it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Neal-Ricker believes the mayor and vice mayor are out of touch with their constituents’ desires. In 2022, the town council approved a rent stabilization ordinance and its “just cause” eviction ordinance, which aimed to protect tenants from arbitrary evictions. At the time, Hellman was on the council, but Blash had not yet been elected. Voters \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12012553/californians-appear-to-reject-many-rent-control-measures\">repealed the law\u003c/a> in last year’s election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12060485\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12060485\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-25-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-25-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-25-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-25-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Fairfax Citizens Coalition Lead Candace Neal-Ricker works at Nave’s Bar and Grill in Fairfax on Oct. 15, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“Council members are not gods,” Neal-Ricker said. “They’ve forgotten who they work for and what they were elected to represent.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She’s also critical of the development receiving “ministerial approval,” which fast-tracks developments by bypassing public hearings and review under the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hellman defended her handling of the housing proposal, saying she followed state laws.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“All of my actions have been to protect the town from litigation, penalties and fines,” Hellman said. “I’m not happy about a lot of these laws, but I didn’t run for office to break the law. And if I have to fall on my sword for that, that’s perfectly fine.”[aside postID=news_12056059 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/09/250916-RecallElectionNight-33-BL.jpg']In July, Hellman said the town council received \u003ca href=\"https://townoffairfaxca.gov/documents/yimby-law-letter-06-18-25/\">letters from Yes In My Backyard\u003c/a> (YIMBY) groups and “threatening communications” from the enforcement arm of the California Department of Housing and Community Development (HCD), \u003ca href=\"https://storage.googleapis.com/proudcity/fairfaxca/2025/09/4-95-Broadway-City-letter_ministerial-process-clarification-with-exhibits_9-8-25.pdf\">reminding them that they could face enforcement action\u003c/a> if they failed to process the School Street project under ministerial approval.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I truly believe that the state and lots of jurisdictions are looking at Fairfax right now as a test case,” Hellman said. “I also believe that they would love to make an example out of Marin County due to their perception that we haven’t kept up with housing demand.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A \u003ca href=\"https://assets.marincounty.gov/marincounty-prod/public/2025-06/The%20Worrisome%20Future%20of%20Marin%20Housing.pdf\">Marin County Grand Jury report\u003c/a> in June noted that since 2017, lawmakers have passed over 100 pieces of legislation to shift power over housing policy to the state. “New state laws significantly reduce the ability of local jurisdictions to deny housing projects that meet objective requirements, even if there is community opposition,” the report said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lawmakers passed many of these laws in response to years of Not In My Backyard (NIMBY) communities interfering with state efforts to ease California’s housing crunch.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Blash said recall supporters don’t understand how much power the state has taken from local governments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12061504\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12061504 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-06-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-06-BL_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-06-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-06-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A sign supporting the recall of Fairfax Mayor Lisel Blash and Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman hangs in a coffee shop in Fairfax on Oct. 15, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“They’ve chipped away at most of our local control,” Blash said. “It used to be possible to object to something and either force the developer to give a little bit or to stop the project altogether. And that power isn’t there as much as it used to be.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The grand jury report determined that the state’s requirement for the whole county to issue 14,405 permits by 2031 is “unrealistic and unlikely to be achieved.” The report cites community resistance as a major obstacle to new housing in Marin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The town has a really famous reputation for fighting development,” Blash said. “People are very proud of the small town atmosphere and very protective of it, so it’s often been hard to get just about anything built.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite the threat of lawsuits and fines, recall proponents feel their city leaders caved to state demands too readily.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You can’t let the fear of financial penalties be the deciding factor in what’s right for a town,” Fitzgerald said. “Do I think the state’s gonna come in and bankrupt every small town because we don’t meet their housing numbers? I doubt it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Recall organizers know their town has a reputation for being NIMBY. But Fitzgerald said, actually, they consider themselves more “MIMBY” — maybe in my backyard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12060486\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12060486\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-29-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-29-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-29-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-29-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">(From left) Kathy Flores, Michael Mackintosh and Sean Fitzgerald, supporters of the recall of Mayor Lisel Blash and Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman, talk at Nave’s Bar and Grill in Fairfax on Oct. 15, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“There’s all these elements that go into why we don’t want that particular building in its current form, so I think being called NIMBY is lazy,” Fitzgerald said. “It prevents people from having constructive dialogue.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hurd, the developer’s attorney, pointed out that the School Street proposal only represents about half of Fairfax’s housing allocation, and there are currently no other multi-family housing applications in the town.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If doing just half of what was allotted results in this level of outcry, I think it’s pretty clear that doing all or meeting the goal was never really on the table,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Less than three weeks before the election, Fairfax’s planning department sent a \u003ca href=\"https://storage.googleapis.com/proudcity/fairfaxca/2025/10/ec4f9313-95-broadway-application-consistency-review-10-16-25.pdf\">letter to the developer\u003c/a> requiring major changes to the housing proposal. The letter cited 25 deficiencies that, if not addressed in 30 days, will result in the project’s denial.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hurd said he does not expect the developer to make any project changes, nor will they abandon ship.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That letter violates numerous, numerous laws,” he said. He expects HCD to weigh in and “inform the town that that letter is illegal.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even if the recall fails, both Blash and Hellman said they will not seek reelection when their terms expire next November.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "Voters in the Marin County town of Fairfax will decide Nov. 4 whether to recall the mayor and vice mayor over their approval to rezone for a proposed six-story housing development downtown.",
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"title": "The Latest Bay Area Recall Campaign Is Over a 6-Story Apartment Building | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>It’s spooky season in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/marin-county\">Marin County\u003c/a> town of Fairfax, where skeletons and pumpkins take up their positions in yards, right alongside signs urging residents to “Vote Yes to Recall” or “Vote No Recalls.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On Nov. 4, voters will decide whether to recall Fairfax’s mayor and vice mayor over their approval of a six-story apartment complex — a decision that’s divided this small town of about 7,500 residents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://storage.googleapis.com/proudcity/fairfaxca/2025/04/Notice-of-Intent-to-Circulate-a-Recall-Petition-Hellman-3-6-25.pdf\">recall petition\u003c/a> accuses Mayor Lisel Blash and Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman of mismanaging funds, neglecting road maintenance and prioritizing their personal agendas. But at the heart of the recall is a high-density housing development proposed for a 2-acre site called School Street Plaza.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last November, developer Mill Creek Residential submitted a preliminary application to build a 243-unit apartment complex at School Street Plaza, with 49 affordable housing units priced between about \u003ca href=\"https://storage.googleapis.com/proudcity/sanrafaelca/2024/07/2024-affordable-rent-schedule-50-60-65-7075-80-90-100-AMI.pdf\">$1,900 to $2,500 a month\u003c/a> for a studio. The proposal includes two levels of parking and commercial space on the ground floor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Residents immediately pushed back. The development site sits on a hill at the edge of downtown Fairfax. A six-story building would tower over the town, where most buildings are one or two stories and the tallest reaches just four stories, and would block many residents’ views of the rolling hills.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12060488\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12060488 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-37-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-37-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-37-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-37-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Fairfax Theater in Fairfax, California, on Oct. 15, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Recall proponents blame Blash, who was elected to the council in 2022, and Hellman, who has served since 2019, for approving zoning changes to School Street Plaza that allowed the housing proposal to move forward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last year, voters replaced two council members who had approved the rezoning with Mike Ghiringhelli and Frank Egger, who both opposed taller buildings. Egger told KQED he will vote Yes on the recall.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Blash and Hellman argue their hands were tied. State housing mandates require Fairfax to approve a housing plan, or “housing element,” for \u003ca href=\"https://townoffairfaxca.gov/town-of-fairfax-files-regional-housing-needs-allocation-rhna-appeal/\">at least 490 new homes by 2031\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12061569\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12061569\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-11-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-11-BL_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-11-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-11-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A Halloween display plays on election related content in Fairfax on Oct. 15, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>If the town fails to make progress toward meeting its required housing allocation, it could \u003ca href=\"https://assets.marincounty.gov/marincounty-prod/public/2025-06/The%20Worrisome%20Future%20of%20Marin%20Housing.pdf\">face lawsuits, fines of up to $600,000 a month and a loss of permitting and zoning authority\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The push to unseat Blash and Hellman is the latest in a string of Bay Area recall campaigns, where frustrated residents have increasingly turned to recalls to express their dissatisfaction with political leaders.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The fight also underscores a fundamental shift in California housing policy, as new state laws steadily erode local control in favor of state mandates.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>A small town divided\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Fairfax, nestled in the foothills of Mount Tamalpais, is known as the cradle of mountain biking and was once an oasis for artists and musicians, who have since been priced out of the town. Many people find the charming homes along winding, redwood-forested streets a desirable place to settle down and raise kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ian Glover, 47, who’s lived in Fairfax for five years, was among families shopping at a recent Wednesday evening farmers market in Bolinas Park. Glover had initially signed the recall petition, believing it would block the School Street apartment complex. The property’s former occupants included a school, a marijuana dispensary and community hot tubs and saunas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12060959\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12060959\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/School-Street-Plaza-Plaza-View-2-04.16.2025-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1125\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/School-Street-Plaza-Plaza-View-2-04.16.2025-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/School-Street-Plaza-Plaza-View-2-04.16.2025-KQED-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/School-Street-Plaza-Plaza-View-2-04.16.2025-KQED-1536x864.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The proposed 6-story housing development at 95 Broadway in Fairfax includes 4 stories of apartment units, 2 levels for parking and commercial space on the ground floor. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Stackhouse De la Peña Trachtenberg Architects)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“I don’t want to see a big high-rise. I don’t want to see more traffic,” Glover said as he offered his 2.5-year-old son some pomegranate seeds and melon slices. Even though he believes apartments and cheap housing benefit the community, Glover said he’d prefer the site become something that preserves the town’s character. “I’d rather see it be a cool school again or … the hot tub place was funky.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Many residents share his sentiment. Some call the building proposal a “monstrosity.” Even Vice Mayor Hellman agrees it’s too tall and would look out of place.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Design-wise, it’s cookie-cutter, cheap, ugly, doesn’t fit within the design and aesthetic or character of the town,” Hellman said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12060487\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12060487\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-33-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-33-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-33-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-33-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman poses for a photo at her home in Fairfax on Oct. 15, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Wendy Lee, 64, has lived in Fairfax for nearly 40 years, raised three kids there and now has three grandchildren. Lee is against the recall, but like many residents, she doesn’t like the development.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t want to be a NIMBY because I know Marin County, we need low-income housing,” Lee said. “But I also don’t think that a six-story apartment building should be smack downtown on that little hill rise.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Along with concerns about parking and traffic, recall supporters contend the project could create a “death trap” in the event of a wildfire, flood or earthquake.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We have one road in and out in case of fire coming from West Marin,” said recall treasurer Sean Fitzgerald. “We have to go through four other towns to get out to the freeway.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12060483\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12060483\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-23-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-23-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-23-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-23-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Michael Mackintosh (left) and Sean Fitzgerald speak with fellow supporters of the recall of Mayor Lisel Blash and Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman at Nave’s Bar and Grill in Fairfax on Oct. 15, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Riley Hurd, a land use attorney representing Mill Creek, said he isn’t surprised by the town’s pushback on the School Street proposal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That’s been the Fairfax way for decades and decades,” he said. “That’s why nothing ever gets built there.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The debate over the recall has driven a wedge between neighbors and strained friendships in the tight-knit community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This has totally splintered our town,” Lee said. “It’s so sad.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Council meetings have turned “ugly and vitriolic,” Blash said, with people yelling, pounding chairs and waving their fists.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12060480\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12060480\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-09-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-09-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-09-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-09-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Fairfax Mayor Lisel Blash at her home in Fairfax on Oct. 15, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“People talk about gnawing on our necks, or lynching us or tar and feathering us,” Blash said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’ve had days where it’s really taken a toll on my mental health for sure,” Hellman added. “I’ve had days where I’ve thought about quitting.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hellman installed a new security system after a few recall organizers showed up at her house. Blash stopped walking home from meetings at night and no longer goes to her favorite coffee shop, now that its windows are plastered with pro-recall signs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“People hear about East Bay recalls or recalls in San Francisco, and I’m sure those are painful for the recallees, but this is a really tiny town,” she said. “It just really feels very personal.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Bay Area recall fever\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The campaign to oust Blash and Hellman joins a growing list of Bay Area recalls since the pandemic, including the removal of three school board members in San Francisco and the city’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11916212/chesa-boudin-recall-sf-voters-on-track-to-oust-district-attorney\">District Attorney Chesa Boudin\u003c/a> in 2022.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last year, voters recalled \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11992881/recall-of-two-sunol-school-board-members-appears-headed-to-victory\">two more school board members in Sunol\u003c/a>, Alameda County \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12013442/alameda-county-voters-recall-district-attorney-pamela-price\">District Attorney Pamela Price\u003c/a> and Oakland \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12012357/sheng-thao-accepts-defeat-in-contentious-oakland-mayoral-recall\">Mayor Sheng Thao\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12060479\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12060479\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-03-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-03-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-03-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-03-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Signs for and against the recall of Fairfax Mayor Lisel Blash and Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman sit outside a 7-Eleven in Fairfax on Oct. 15, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In September, residents in San Francisco’s Sunset District \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12056059/supervisor-joel-engardio-is-out-whats-next-for-san-franciscos-sunset-district\">recalled Supervisor Joel Engardio\u003c/a> over his support for closing part of the Great Highway to turn it into a park. His removal did not alter the highway’s closure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Mark Baldassare, a director at the Public Policy Institute of California, said local recalls offer residents a tool to effect change. They’re far harder to pull off at the state level and they don’t exist at the federal level.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“COVID put the emphasis on local government as being both the solution and in some cases the problem,” Baldassare said. “As that’s taken place, it’s also become apparent to a lot of people that an option is the recall.”\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Fairfax recall organizers received guidance from Chris Moore and Edward Escobar, who helped lead the recalls of Price and Thao. Fitzgerald said they sought their advice after their initial petition was rejected by the town clerk and town attorney over technical errors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They came out, they shared with us what they had done successfully for free,” Fitzgerald said. “We’ve done this all 100% grassroots.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Moore said he spent a few hours with recall organizers in the spring, advising them on messaging strategies, how to gather signatures and volunteers and recommending an attorney. Since then, he’s answered one or two questions a month over text.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I wasn’t active in day-to-day activity,” Moore said. “I just kind of say, ‘OK, here’s what we did in that scenario.’ But largely they’ve run it up there themselves.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In July, recall supporters held a rally, which Moore and Escobar attended. Escobar said he helped “orchestrate” a press conference, reaching out to reporters to cover the event.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“All we do is amplify the voice of the people,” Escobar said. “These folks are, they’re weeds that need to be pulled out of office.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>A shift in housing policy\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Recall organizers often meet at Nave’s Bar, a downtown pub managed by recall leader Candace Neal-Ricker, which they jokingly call their “newsroom.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I am your local, ultra-low-income, born and raised Fairfaxian that could not afford what they are proposing there,” Neal-Ricker said as she poured drinks and rang up customers on a 1967 vintage cash register. If the development had included “truly affordable” housing with fewer stories, she said she would’ve supported it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Neal-Ricker believes the mayor and vice mayor are out of touch with their constituents’ desires. In 2022, the town council approved a rent stabilization ordinance and its “just cause” eviction ordinance, which aimed to protect tenants from arbitrary evictions. At the time, Hellman was on the council, but Blash had not yet been elected. Voters \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12012553/californians-appear-to-reject-many-rent-control-measures\">repealed the law\u003c/a> in last year’s election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12060485\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12060485\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-25-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-25-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-25-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-25-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Fairfax Citizens Coalition Lead Candace Neal-Ricker works at Nave’s Bar and Grill in Fairfax on Oct. 15, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“Council members are not gods,” Neal-Ricker said. “They’ve forgotten who they work for and what they were elected to represent.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She’s also critical of the development receiving “ministerial approval,” which fast-tracks developments by bypassing public hearings and review under the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hellman defended her handling of the housing proposal, saying she followed state laws.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“All of my actions have been to protect the town from litigation, penalties and fines,” Hellman said. “I’m not happy about a lot of these laws, but I didn’t run for office to break the law. And if I have to fall on my sword for that, that’s perfectly fine.”\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>In July, Hellman said the town council received \u003ca href=\"https://townoffairfaxca.gov/documents/yimby-law-letter-06-18-25/\">letters from Yes In My Backyard\u003c/a> (YIMBY) groups and “threatening communications” from the enforcement arm of the California Department of Housing and Community Development (HCD), \u003ca href=\"https://storage.googleapis.com/proudcity/fairfaxca/2025/09/4-95-Broadway-City-letter_ministerial-process-clarification-with-exhibits_9-8-25.pdf\">reminding them that they could face enforcement action\u003c/a> if they failed to process the School Street project under ministerial approval.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I truly believe that the state and lots of jurisdictions are looking at Fairfax right now as a test case,” Hellman said. “I also believe that they would love to make an example out of Marin County due to their perception that we haven’t kept up with housing demand.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A \u003ca href=\"https://assets.marincounty.gov/marincounty-prod/public/2025-06/The%20Worrisome%20Future%20of%20Marin%20Housing.pdf\">Marin County Grand Jury report\u003c/a> in June noted that since 2017, lawmakers have passed over 100 pieces of legislation to shift power over housing policy to the state. “New state laws significantly reduce the ability of local jurisdictions to deny housing projects that meet objective requirements, even if there is community opposition,” the report said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lawmakers passed many of these laws in response to years of Not In My Backyard (NIMBY) communities interfering with state efforts to ease California’s housing crunch.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Blash said recall supporters don’t understand how much power the state has taken from local governments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12061504\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12061504 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-06-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-06-BL_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-06-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FairfaxRecall-06-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A sign supporting the recall of Fairfax Mayor Lisel Blash and Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman hangs in a coffee shop in Fairfax on Oct. 15, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“They’ve chipped away at most of our local control,” Blash said. “It used to be possible to object to something and either force the developer to give a little bit or to stop the project altogether. And that power isn’t there as much as it used to be.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The grand jury report determined that the state’s requirement for the whole county to issue 14,405 permits by 2031 is “unrealistic and unlikely to be achieved.” The report cites community resistance as a major obstacle to new housing in Marin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The town has a really famous reputation for fighting development,” Blash said. “People are very proud of the small town atmosphere and very protective of it, so it’s often been hard to get just about anything built.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite the threat of lawsuits and fines, recall proponents feel their city leaders caved to state demands too readily.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You can’t let the fear of financial penalties be the deciding factor in what’s right for a town,” Fitzgerald said. “Do I think the state’s gonna come in and bankrupt every small town because we don’t meet their housing numbers? I doubt it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Recall organizers know their town has a reputation for being NIMBY. But Fitzgerald said, actually, they consider themselves more “MIMBY” — maybe in my backyard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12060486\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12060486\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-29-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-29-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-29-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/10/251015-FAIRFAXRECALL-29-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">(From left) Kathy Flores, Michael Mackintosh and Sean Fitzgerald, supporters of the recall of Mayor Lisel Blash and Vice Mayor Stephanie Hellman, talk at Nave’s Bar and Grill in Fairfax on Oct. 15, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“There’s all these elements that go into why we don’t want that particular building in its current form, so I think being called NIMBY is lazy,” Fitzgerald said. “It prevents people from having constructive dialogue.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hurd, the developer’s attorney, pointed out that the School Street proposal only represents about half of Fairfax’s housing allocation, and there are currently no other multi-family housing applications in the town.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If doing just half of what was allotted results in this level of outcry, I think it’s pretty clear that doing all or meeting the goal was never really on the table,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Less than three weeks before the election, Fairfax’s planning department sent a \u003ca href=\"https://storage.googleapis.com/proudcity/fairfaxca/2025/10/ec4f9313-95-broadway-application-consistency-review-10-16-25.pdf\">letter to the developer\u003c/a> requiring major changes to the housing proposal. The letter cited 25 deficiencies that, if not addressed in 30 days, will result in the project’s denial.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hurd said he does not expect the developer to make any project changes, nor will they abandon ship.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That letter violates numerous, numerous laws,” he said. He expects HCD to weigh in and “inform the town that that letter is illegal.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even if the recall fails, both Blash and Hellman said they will not seek reelection when their terms expire next November.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Fairfax is a small, predominantly white town of about 7,500 people, nestled up against the Mt. Tam watershed in Marin. Wellness and a distrust of authority have long been part of the town’s culture. But since the pandemic, it also became a place where supporters of Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s anti-vaccine message grew louder and louder.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Links:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1997008/the-marin-town-where-rfk-jr-s-message-took-root\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Marin Town Where RFK Jr.’s Message Took Root\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC1284838524&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ci>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/i>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:53] I wonder if you can start, Lesley, by telling me a little bit about Fairfax.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:01:57] It’s a really adorable little town. About an hour from San Francisco out in West Marin. It’s kind of known for its beauty. It’s a really beautiful town. There’s a ton of mountain biking trails. It’s got an adorable downtown, kind of old fashioned downtown. So you’ve got all these shops, these kind of eclectic shops you can go and you can get your crystals and your hemp clothing. And on Wednesdays, there’s this incredible farmers market where people go and get their fresh local honey and their heirloom tomatoes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:36] Yeah, when did you, I guess, first start to notice something else sort of brewing underneath here in Fairfax?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:02:43] Yeah, I mean, as I was following the pandemic as a health reporter, you began to see, I used to call it, like the Venn diagram is getting very strange, where you’ve got kind of wellness culture intersecting with more conservative viewpoints, especially around vaccines. And you’ve got wellness culture sort of questioning, has always questioned, mainstream medicine, kind of anti-pharma, more all-natural. And then as we saw, conservatives didn’t like the sort of mandates during the pandemic to protect people from the virus, but you had to change your life. And conservatives didn’t like that lack of independence. And so you saw these communities begin to intersect. And I began to really see that in my reporting. And then I just happened to have quite a large community out in Fairfax and began to overhear these conversations in personal ways, in social circles. And that’s kind of only gotten louder.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:48] This has a lot to do with also the rise of health secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. What exactly have you seen people in Fairfax embracing more in this moment?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:04:03] Right around when RFK started to run for president last year, the RFKers set up right at the entrance of the farmers market. And they had all their MAHA, make America healthy again, swag. And so the vibe began to shift a little bit more publicly there. And then those voices began to get quite a bit louder. The vaccine rates were quite high, or were quite high in Marin during the pandemic. That’s not really the historical trend in Marin. You know, 10 years ago, I think Marin had some of the lowest vaccine rates in California. And there’s always been kind of a questioning of putting something foreign that was created by a pharmaceutical company into your body. That ethos, I don’t think has ever died. But when the vaccine mandates came on and you couldn’t go into restaurants and hospital workers, et cetera, couldn’t go to their jobs without getting their vaccines, those ripples, you know, in certain communities started to ignite. And I think they were even more fueled by RFK’s messages, you know Kennedy’s messages.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lex Fridman \u003c/strong>[00:05:06] Difficult question. Can you name any vaccines that you think are good?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RFK Jr. \u003c/strong>[00:05:10] I think some of the live virus vaccines are probably averting more problems than they’re causing. There’s no vaccine that is safe and effective.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:05:25] He has an organization that he founded called Children’s Health Defense. And I’ve gotten those emails and their press releases for years. And there is a pretty deep skepticism of vaccine science. There’s a thought that vaccines cause autism, which scientifically there’s not proof at all for that. But there is conspiratorial thinking around vaccines that RFK ignited. And that only became louder during the pandemic. And I think a lot of people turned to their social media for information during the pandemic and RFK was there with a lot of messaging.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:02] And I know you talked with some people in Fairfax who, on paper, I mean, don’t love Donald Trump, actually identify as more lefty type people, but who sort of have really began to embrace this ideology that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. really represents. Can you tell me about some of the people you spoke with?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:06:30] I spoke to a man named Nathaniel Lepp and he is a doctor and addiction specialist in Fairfax.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nathaniel Lepp \u003c/strong>[00:06:36] I see him as part of the anti-establishment or anti-authority type of movement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:06:45] He would have called himself, I think, very left historically. And yet he wanted the Democratic Party to push harder and, I think, be a little bit more left, I would say. And he was very disappointed with the kind of more mainstream pull of the Democratic party.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nathaniel Lepp \u003c/strong>[00:07:01] I officially unregistered myself from the Democratic Party because I was just so fed up with the sort of establishment Democrats’ refusal to allow passionate, more left, populist candidates to get through and win the nomination. I supported Howard Dean, I supported Bernie Sanders.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:07:25] And he also, I think in his medical career, questioned what he was being taught. He witnessed the opioid crisis during his residency and he saw doctors prescribing pain medications that led to deep addictions and horrible lives. And he blamed the medical institution for that and he now works as an addiction specialist to wean people off of psychiatric medications that he believes are causing more harm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nathaniel Lepp \u003c/strong>[00:07:51] The crisis of opioid overdose related deaths in America was fueled by the medical system, by doctors and pharmacies and not only that, like major institutions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:08:08] I think that has led him to a place where he is interested in a candidate who is willing to question the institutions that we have in place. And RFK Jr. is kind of famous for questioning the CDC and the FDA and these organizations that have historically, you know, been kind of our protectors of health.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nathaniel Lepp \u003c/strong>[00:08:25] I don’t hold any politician to, like, a high level of precision, like in their words. I think it’s like, you know, I think that he’s directionally correct.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:08:51] How widespread does this, it seems like dissatisfaction with government, this sort of anti-vax, pro-RFK junior politics that Nathaniel seems to share, how widespread does that seem to be in Fairfax?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:09:19] It’s a great question. I don’t think there’s hard data. I would love to see hard data and be able to really put this into perspective by how people are voting, et cetera. We can’t do that because RFK was no longer a candidate for president. And I would say, if you go to Fairfax, I wouldn’t say that you get this overwhelming sense of RFK loyalty. What I gathered was that this small, very fringe, four people at a rally, anti-vax voice has gotten quite loud on a civic level.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matt Willis \u003c/strong>[00:09:49] I didn’t realize the degree to which misinformation was taking hold in my community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:09:54] Even talking to public officials like Matt Willis, he’s the former public health official in Marin County. He says that that contingent of folks used to be small and fringe that he kind of dismissed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:10:08] It moved from what was a visibly kind of older community of a few people who would show up repeatedly, kind of a known cast of characters at supervisor meetings, et cetera. And then you started seeing more families. There were moms because of their concerns about vaccines for their kids. And then by the time RFK started running for office, the float at the Fairfax parade was intergenerational.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:10:38] This is a group that called for his removal from office. And even last summer, there was a Fairfax parade and there was an RFK Jr. float.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matt Willis \u003c/strong>[00:10:49] A lot of the folks that I recognized from board meetings who were really accusing me of harming people directly and had hung signs over Highway 101 to have me locked up. I was there with my family and I just thought maybe we should protect them from whatever might happen if we’re recognized.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:11:07] He says now that he underestimated that group of people and that they’re much louder.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matt Willis \u003c/strong>[00:11:12] Now as the RFK and the MAHA movement has become more broad, we’re seeing a lot more engagement from people across the community, including families.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:27] How does this anger about the vaccine and this loud support for RFK Jr. trickle down into other parts of politics in Fairfax?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:11:39] I think that anti-vax seeded a questioning of the government’s influence in individual lives that then seeds a questioning of the governments influence in renter controls, in DEI policy, in LGBTQ protections.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chase Cutrano \u003c/strong>[00:11:57] There is just a really weird sort of energy that has come as a outcropping of the pandemic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:12:06] And I talked to Chance Cutrano, who is the former mayor in Fairfax. And he really outlined that sentiment. He said, you know, it started as kind of an anti-vax voice. And then he felt that during the meetings, it then took on more of the anti-science, anti-DEI, anti-LGBTQ. And this really struck him. You know, historically, Fairfax is quite environmental, but even to anti-climate policies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chase Cutrano \u003c/strong>[00:12:32] So you’re anti-housing and anti-homelessness. And then not only that, but anti-electric vehicle. And now, oh my gosh, it’s the same people are coming back and they’re not only electric vehicles, they’re anti-battery powered landscape equipment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:12:46] Now, how much of that is tied directly to RFK supporters or a wave of more Trumpian thought? It’s difficult to dissect. But I think, as we can see nationally, those forces are intersecting. The RFK followers are tipping in a more Trumpien direction. And so we’re beginning to see that unfold in small towns, even in very blue parts of California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chase Cutrano \u003c/strong>[00:13:11] I mean, it’s all like in the spirit of this libertarian, like, don’t tread on me. I mean there are a lot of Don’t Tread On Me stickers in Fairfax, you know?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:13:19] He last year, you know, received a death threat and a call for a public lynching. This was on a local political website and he just, you know, was kind of thrown for a loop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chase Cutrano \u003c/strong>[00:13:32] Now I’m just in therapy because I am no longer in office. So I’m trying to just process the horror of serving in this strange time, especially as a young person that believed in civic life and public service and just seeing a lot of maybe truths that I took for granted being tested, but also just decency and decorum in general being tested.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:14:05] Yeah, I mean, Lesley, this, I guess, phenomenon that you’re describing happening in Fairfax does seem like a sort of smaller reflection of something that we’re seeing happening on a national level, this sort of mainstreaming even of these sort of anti-vax, anti-establishment policies. I mean this isn’t unique to Fairfax, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:14:30] No, I think and that’s one reason why I placed it in Fairfax. It would be one thing if I was, you know, two or three hours north of here in quite conservative country telling this story. But this is, you know a community that again kind of has that intersection. I talked to this woman from Petaluma. Her name is Zadie Dressler and she’s a nurse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zadie Dressler \u003c/strong>[00:14:50] I’ve never really cared as much about this stuff until RFK started talking about it honestly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:14:57] Zadie said politics weren’t really on her radar at all, but during the pandemic, she didn’t want to get the vaccine and decided she had to get it to continue working at her hospital. And she said she a few months after the vaccine, she started to have some health problems that she links back to the to the vaccine, and started to question the vaccine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zadie Dressler \u003c/strong>[00:15:16] I called Kaiser and I was like, I needed an EKG and a chest x-ray because I am having tachycardia and like chest pain. And they gave me those two things but then just kind of treated me like a psych patient. And it was months after my second vaccine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:15:30] She gets a lot of our information from social media and she started to see some of the messages questioning the vaccine and what it’s doing and kind of write for RFK’s message.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zadie Dressler \u003c/strong>[00:15:40] You have all these things that are just on TV or however you get the information, they’re just blatant lies. And then you’re supposed to be like, ‘Oh, I trust the president’ or ‘Oh, I trust this scientist who’s telling everyone to get these shots.’ So the whole thing it’s, it’s got so many tentacles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:15:59] I mean, what do you think these people want ultimately? I mean if you are on the RFK Jr. train, does that mean that you are also on the Trump train? Like is Trump’s politics and Trump’s message more broadly also really resonating with this group of people?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:16:17] My overall sense is that the gateway for entering potentially more conservative thinking is health.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matt Willis \u003c/strong>[00:16:25] Marin County has always had, you know, a fringe element around health and well-being.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:16:32] And Matt Willis talks about this. Maybe they don’t want the chemical colors in their food, and they don’t want pesticides in the ground, and they want drugs to be poured on them by the medical system. And so you already kind of believe in a more natural life. Like that’s potentially your gateway.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matt Willis \u003c/strong>[00:16:49] Unfortunately, that got linked, I think, to a charismatic leader, you know, RFK, who himself carries many of those beliefs and has similar kind of libertarian ideology and freedom of choice and anti-government.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:17:04] And they really resonate with the message of disruption. And you’ve got someone like RFK who’s saying, you know, the CDC and the FDA are our enemies and we’ve got to take them down and let’s fire all these workers and start over and do this differently. And I think that level of disruption and the willingness to question authority is really resonating with this particular set.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:17:34] What’s your biggest takeaway from this story, Lesley?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:17:39] As a health reporter, this isn’t really just about public health issues. This is really more about trust. And we’re seeing this shift from, you know, fringe beliefs are no longer confined to just the margins. These are the ideas that were, you now, once dismissed, sort of vaccine skepticism or, you, know, deep distrust in institutions. They’re now shaping our national discourse and even, you know, our federal policy. And I think that erosion of trust… Is going to make it harder for our policymakers to respond to, you know, if we had another pandemic right now, I think it’d be really tough to get public to follow mandates of any kind. It’s very clear to me that it’s not one thing that usually tips someone, but it’s a series of events of messaging that unfolds slowly and it takes some time, and then people can drift in very, very surprising ways.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Fairfax is a small, predominantly white town of about 7,500 people, nestled up against the Mt. Tam watershed in Marin. Wellness and a distrust of authority have long been part of the town’s culture. But since the pandemic, it also became a place where supporters of Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s anti-vaccine message grew louder and louder.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Links:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1997008/the-marin-town-where-rfk-jr-s-message-took-root\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Marin Town Where RFK Jr.’s Message Took Root\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC1284838524&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ci>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/i>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:53] I wonder if you can start, Lesley, by telling me a little bit about Fairfax.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:01:57] It’s a really adorable little town. About an hour from San Francisco out in West Marin. It’s kind of known for its beauty. It’s a really beautiful town. There’s a ton of mountain biking trails. It’s got an adorable downtown, kind of old fashioned downtown. So you’ve got all these shops, these kind of eclectic shops you can go and you can get your crystals and your hemp clothing. And on Wednesdays, there’s this incredible farmers market where people go and get their fresh local honey and their heirloom tomatoes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:36] Yeah, when did you, I guess, first start to notice something else sort of brewing underneath here in Fairfax?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:02:43] Yeah, I mean, as I was following the pandemic as a health reporter, you began to see, I used to call it, like the Venn diagram is getting very strange, where you’ve got kind of wellness culture intersecting with more conservative viewpoints, especially around vaccines. And you’ve got wellness culture sort of questioning, has always questioned, mainstream medicine, kind of anti-pharma, more all-natural. And then as we saw, conservatives didn’t like the sort of mandates during the pandemic to protect people from the virus, but you had to change your life. And conservatives didn’t like that lack of independence. And so you saw these communities begin to intersect. And I began to really see that in my reporting. And then I just happened to have quite a large community out in Fairfax and began to overhear these conversations in personal ways, in social circles. And that’s kind of only gotten louder.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:48] This has a lot to do with also the rise of health secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. What exactly have you seen people in Fairfax embracing more in this moment?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:04:03] Right around when RFK started to run for president last year, the RFKers set up right at the entrance of the farmers market. And they had all their MAHA, make America healthy again, swag. And so the vibe began to shift a little bit more publicly there. And then those voices began to get quite a bit louder. The vaccine rates were quite high, or were quite high in Marin during the pandemic. That’s not really the historical trend in Marin. You know, 10 years ago, I think Marin had some of the lowest vaccine rates in California. And there’s always been kind of a questioning of putting something foreign that was created by a pharmaceutical company into your body. That ethos, I don’t think has ever died. But when the vaccine mandates came on and you couldn’t go into restaurants and hospital workers, et cetera, couldn’t go to their jobs without getting their vaccines, those ripples, you know, in certain communities started to ignite. And I think they were even more fueled by RFK’s messages, you know Kennedy’s messages.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lex Fridman \u003c/strong>[00:05:06] Difficult question. Can you name any vaccines that you think are good?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>RFK Jr. \u003c/strong>[00:05:10] I think some of the live virus vaccines are probably averting more problems than they’re causing. There’s no vaccine that is safe and effective.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:05:25] He has an organization that he founded called Children’s Health Defense. And I’ve gotten those emails and their press releases for years. And there is a pretty deep skepticism of vaccine science. There’s a thought that vaccines cause autism, which scientifically there’s not proof at all for that. But there is conspiratorial thinking around vaccines that RFK ignited. And that only became louder during the pandemic. And I think a lot of people turned to their social media for information during the pandemic and RFK was there with a lot of messaging.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:02] And I know you talked with some people in Fairfax who, on paper, I mean, don’t love Donald Trump, actually identify as more lefty type people, but who sort of have really began to embrace this ideology that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. really represents. Can you tell me about some of the people you spoke with?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:06:30] I spoke to a man named Nathaniel Lepp and he is a doctor and addiction specialist in Fairfax.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nathaniel Lepp \u003c/strong>[00:06:36] I see him as part of the anti-establishment or anti-authority type of movement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:06:45] He would have called himself, I think, very left historically. And yet he wanted the Democratic Party to push harder and, I think, be a little bit more left, I would say. And he was very disappointed with the kind of more mainstream pull of the Democratic party.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nathaniel Lepp \u003c/strong>[00:07:01] I officially unregistered myself from the Democratic Party because I was just so fed up with the sort of establishment Democrats’ refusal to allow passionate, more left, populist candidates to get through and win the nomination. I supported Howard Dean, I supported Bernie Sanders.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:07:25] And he also, I think in his medical career, questioned what he was being taught. He witnessed the opioid crisis during his residency and he saw doctors prescribing pain medications that led to deep addictions and horrible lives. And he blamed the medical institution for that and he now works as an addiction specialist to wean people off of psychiatric medications that he believes are causing more harm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nathaniel Lepp \u003c/strong>[00:07:51] The crisis of opioid overdose related deaths in America was fueled by the medical system, by doctors and pharmacies and not only that, like major institutions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:08:08] I think that has led him to a place where he is interested in a candidate who is willing to question the institutions that we have in place. And RFK Jr. is kind of famous for questioning the CDC and the FDA and these organizations that have historically, you know, been kind of our protectors of health.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nathaniel Lepp \u003c/strong>[00:08:25] I don’t hold any politician to, like, a high level of precision, like in their words. I think it’s like, you know, I think that he’s directionally correct.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:08:51] How widespread does this, it seems like dissatisfaction with government, this sort of anti-vax, pro-RFK junior politics that Nathaniel seems to share, how widespread does that seem to be in Fairfax?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:09:19] It’s a great question. I don’t think there’s hard data. I would love to see hard data and be able to really put this into perspective by how people are voting, et cetera. We can’t do that because RFK was no longer a candidate for president. And I would say, if you go to Fairfax, I wouldn’t say that you get this overwhelming sense of RFK loyalty. What I gathered was that this small, very fringe, four people at a rally, anti-vax voice has gotten quite loud on a civic level.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matt Willis \u003c/strong>[00:09:49] I didn’t realize the degree to which misinformation was taking hold in my community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:09:54] Even talking to public officials like Matt Willis, he’s the former public health official in Marin County. He says that that contingent of folks used to be small and fringe that he kind of dismissed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:10:08] It moved from what was a visibly kind of older community of a few people who would show up repeatedly, kind of a known cast of characters at supervisor meetings, et cetera. And then you started seeing more families. There were moms because of their concerns about vaccines for their kids. And then by the time RFK started running for office, the float at the Fairfax parade was intergenerational.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:10:38] This is a group that called for his removal from office. And even last summer, there was a Fairfax parade and there was an RFK Jr. float.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matt Willis \u003c/strong>[00:10:49] A lot of the folks that I recognized from board meetings who were really accusing me of harming people directly and had hung signs over Highway 101 to have me locked up. I was there with my family and I just thought maybe we should protect them from whatever might happen if we’re recognized.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:11:07] He says now that he underestimated that group of people and that they’re much louder.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matt Willis \u003c/strong>[00:11:12] Now as the RFK and the MAHA movement has become more broad, we’re seeing a lot more engagement from people across the community, including families.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:27] How does this anger about the vaccine and this loud support for RFK Jr. trickle down into other parts of politics in Fairfax?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:11:39] I think that anti-vax seeded a questioning of the government’s influence in individual lives that then seeds a questioning of the governments influence in renter controls, in DEI policy, in LGBTQ protections.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chase Cutrano \u003c/strong>[00:11:57] There is just a really weird sort of energy that has come as a outcropping of the pandemic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:12:06] And I talked to Chance Cutrano, who is the former mayor in Fairfax. And he really outlined that sentiment. He said, you know, it started as kind of an anti-vax voice. And then he felt that during the meetings, it then took on more of the anti-science, anti-DEI, anti-LGBTQ. And this really struck him. You know, historically, Fairfax is quite environmental, but even to anti-climate policies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chase Cutrano \u003c/strong>[00:12:32] So you’re anti-housing and anti-homelessness. And then not only that, but anti-electric vehicle. And now, oh my gosh, it’s the same people are coming back and they’re not only electric vehicles, they’re anti-battery powered landscape equipment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:12:46] Now, how much of that is tied directly to RFK supporters or a wave of more Trumpian thought? It’s difficult to dissect. But I think, as we can see nationally, those forces are intersecting. The RFK followers are tipping in a more Trumpien direction. And so we’re beginning to see that unfold in small towns, even in very blue parts of California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chase Cutrano \u003c/strong>[00:13:11] I mean, it’s all like in the spirit of this libertarian, like, don’t tread on me. I mean there are a lot of Don’t Tread On Me stickers in Fairfax, you know?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:13:19] He last year, you know, received a death threat and a call for a public lynching. This was on a local political website and he just, you know, was kind of thrown for a loop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chase Cutrano \u003c/strong>[00:13:32] Now I’m just in therapy because I am no longer in office. So I’m trying to just process the horror of serving in this strange time, especially as a young person that believed in civic life and public service and just seeing a lot of maybe truths that I took for granted being tested, but also just decency and decorum in general being tested.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:14:05] Yeah, I mean, Lesley, this, I guess, phenomenon that you’re describing happening in Fairfax does seem like a sort of smaller reflection of something that we’re seeing happening on a national level, this sort of mainstreaming even of these sort of anti-vax, anti-establishment policies. I mean this isn’t unique to Fairfax, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:14:30] No, I think and that’s one reason why I placed it in Fairfax. It would be one thing if I was, you know, two or three hours north of here in quite conservative country telling this story. But this is, you know a community that again kind of has that intersection. I talked to this woman from Petaluma. Her name is Zadie Dressler and she’s a nurse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zadie Dressler \u003c/strong>[00:14:50] I’ve never really cared as much about this stuff until RFK started talking about it honestly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:14:57] Zadie said politics weren’t really on her radar at all, but during the pandemic, she didn’t want to get the vaccine and decided she had to get it to continue working at her hospital. And she said she a few months after the vaccine, she started to have some health problems that she links back to the to the vaccine, and started to question the vaccine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zadie Dressler \u003c/strong>[00:15:16] I called Kaiser and I was like, I needed an EKG and a chest x-ray because I am having tachycardia and like chest pain. And they gave me those two things but then just kind of treated me like a psych patient. And it was months after my second vaccine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:15:30] She gets a lot of our information from social media and she started to see some of the messages questioning the vaccine and what it’s doing and kind of write for RFK’s message.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Zadie Dressler \u003c/strong>[00:15:40] You have all these things that are just on TV or however you get the information, they’re just blatant lies. And then you’re supposed to be like, ‘Oh, I trust the president’ or ‘Oh, I trust this scientist who’s telling everyone to get these shots.’ So the whole thing it’s, it’s got so many tentacles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:15:59] I mean, what do you think these people want ultimately? I mean if you are on the RFK Jr. train, does that mean that you are also on the Trump train? Like is Trump’s politics and Trump’s message more broadly also really resonating with this group of people?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:16:17] My overall sense is that the gateway for entering potentially more conservative thinking is health.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matt Willis \u003c/strong>[00:16:25] Marin County has always had, you know, a fringe element around health and well-being.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:16:32] And Matt Willis talks about this. Maybe they don’t want the chemical colors in their food, and they don’t want pesticides in the ground, and they want drugs to be poured on them by the medical system. And so you already kind of believe in a more natural life. Like that’s potentially your gateway.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Matt Willis \u003c/strong>[00:16:49] Unfortunately, that got linked, I think, to a charismatic leader, you know, RFK, who himself carries many of those beliefs and has similar kind of libertarian ideology and freedom of choice and anti-government.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:17:04] And they really resonate with the message of disruption. And you’ve got someone like RFK who’s saying, you know, the CDC and the FDA are our enemies and we’ve got to take them down and let’s fire all these workers and start over and do this differently. And I think that level of disruption and the willingness to question authority is really resonating with this particular set.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:17:34] What’s your biggest takeaway from this story, Lesley?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg \u003c/strong>[00:17:39] As a health reporter, this isn’t really just about public health issues. This is really more about trust. And we’re seeing this shift from, you know, fringe beliefs are no longer confined to just the margins. These are the ideas that were, you now, once dismissed, sort of vaccine skepticism or, you, know, deep distrust in institutions. They’re now shaping our national discourse and even, you know, our federal policy. And I think that erosion of trust… Is going to make it harder for our policymakers to respond to, you know, if we had another pandemic right now, I think it’d be really tough to get public to follow mandates of any kind. It’s very clear to me that it’s not one thing that usually tips someone, but it’s a series of events of messaging that unfolds slowly and it takes some time, and then people can drift in very, very surprising ways.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"info": "A one-hour radio program to hear celebrated writers, artists and thinkers address contemporary ideas and values, often discussing the creative process. Please note: tapes or transcripts are not available",
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"source": "City Arts & Lectures"
},
"link": "https://www.cityarts.net",
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},
"closealltabs": {
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"order": 1
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"title": "Code Switch / Life Kit",
"info": "\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em>, which listeners will hear in the first part of the hour, has fearless and much-needed conversations about race. Hosted by journalists of color, the show tackles the subject of race head-on, exploring how it impacts every part of society — from politics and pop culture to history, sports and more.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em>, which will be in the second part of the hour, guides you through spaces and feelings no one prepares you for — from finances to mental health, from workplace microaggressions to imposter syndrome, from relationships to parenting. The show features experts with real world experience and shares their knowledge. Because everyone needs a little help being human.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510312/codeswitch\">\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/lifekit\">\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />",
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"id": "commonwealth-club",
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"info": "The Commonwealth Club of California is the nation's oldest and largest public affairs forum. As a non-partisan forum, The Club brings to the public airwaves diverse viewpoints on important topics. The Club's weekly radio broadcast - the oldest in the U.S., dating back to 1924 - is carried across the nation on public radio stations and is now podcasting. Our website archive features audio of our recent programs, as well as selected speeches from our long and distinguished history. This podcast feed is usually updated twice a week and is always un-edited.",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5jb21tb253ZWFsdGhjbHViLm9yZy9hdWRpby9wb2RjYXN0L3dlZWtseS54bWw",
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"tagline": "The conversation starts here",
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"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Forum-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"order": 9
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"id": "fresh-air",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=214089682&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
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"hidden-brain": {
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"info": "Shankar Vedantam uses science and storytelling to reveal the unconscious patterns that drive human behavior, shape our choices and direct our relationships.",
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"airtime": "SUN 7pm-8pm",
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"source": "NPR"
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"how-i-built-this": {
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"title": "How I Built This with Guy Raz",
"info": "Guy Raz dives into the stories behind some of the world's best known companies. How I Built This weaves a narrative journey about innovators, entrepreneurs and idealists—and the movements they built.",
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"airtime": "SUN 7:30pm-8pm",
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"link": "/radio/program/how-i-built-this",
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"hyphenacion": {
"id": "hyphenacion",
"title": "Hyphenación",
"tagline": "Where conversation and cultura meet",
"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
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"order": 15
},
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"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/2p3Fifq96nw9BPcmFdIq0o?si=39209f7b25774f38",
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},
"jerrybrown": {
"id": "jerrybrown",
"title": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown",
"tagline": "Lessons from a lifetime in politics",
"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game – and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-Political-Mind-of-Jerry-Brown-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/jerrybrown",
"meta": {
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"order": 18
},
"link": "/podcasts/jerrybrown",
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},
"latino-usa": {
"id": "latino-usa",
"title": "Latino USA",
"airtime": "MON 1am-2am, SUN 6pm-7pm",
"info": "Latino USA, the radio journal of news and culture, is the only national, English-language radio program produced from a Latino perspective.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/latinoUsa.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://latinousa.org/",
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"link": "/radio/program/latino-usa",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=79681317&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510016/podcast.xml"
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},
"marketplace": {
"id": "marketplace",
"title": "Marketplace",
"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 4pm-4:30pm, MON-WED 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Marketplace-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.marketplace.org/",
"meta": {
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"source": "American Public Media"
},
"link": "/radio/program/marketplace",
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},
"masters-of-scale": {
"id": "masters-of-scale",
"title": "Masters of Scale",
"info": "Masters of Scale is an original podcast in which LinkedIn co-founder and Greylock Partner Reid Hoffman sets out to describe and prove theories that explain how great entrepreneurs take their companies from zero to a gazillion in ingenious fashion.",
"airtime": "Every other Wednesday June 12 through October 16 at 8pm (repeats Thursdays at 2am)",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "https://mastersofscale.com/",
"meta": {
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"rss": "https://rss.art19.com/masters-of-scale"
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},
"mindshift": {
"id": "mindshift",
"title": "MindShift",
"tagline": "A podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids",
"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED MindShift: How We Will Learn",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/mindshift/",
"meta": {
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"order": 12
},
"link": "/podcasts/mindshift",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5",
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},
"morning-edition": {
"id": "morning-edition",
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"info": "\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. Hosts Steve Inskeep, David Greene and Rachel Martin bring you the latest breaking news and features to prepare you for the day.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 3am-9am",
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"onourwatch": {
"id": "onourwatch",
"title": "On Our Watch",
"tagline": "Deeply-reported investigative journalism",
"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/On-Our-Watch-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/onourwatch",
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"order": 11
},
"link": "/podcasts/onourwatch",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5ucHIub3JnLzUxMDM2MC9wb2RjYXN0LnhtbD9zYz1nb29nbGVwb2RjYXN0cw",
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},
"on-the-media": {
"id": "on-the-media",
"title": "On The Media",
"info": "Our weekly podcast explores how the media 'sausage' is made, casts an incisive eye on fluctuations in the marketplace of ideas, and examines threats to the freedom of information and expression in America and abroad. For one hour a week, the show tries to lift the veil from the process of \"making media,\" especially news media, because it's through that lens that we see the world and the world sees us",
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"source": "wnyc"
},
"link": "/radio/program/on-the-media",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/on-the-media/id73330715?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/On-the-Media-p69/",
"rss": "http://feeds.wnyc.org/onthemedia"
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},
"pbs-newshour": {
"id": "pbs-newshour",
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"info": "Analysis, background reports and updates from the PBS NewsHour putting today's news in context.",
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"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/PBS-News-Hour-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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},
"link": "/radio/program/pbs-newshour",
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"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/PBS-NewsHour---Full-Show-p425698/",
"rss": "https://www.pbs.org/newshour/feeds/rss/podcasts/show"
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},
"perspectives": {
"id": "perspectives",
"title": "Perspectives",
"tagline": "KQED's series of daily listener commentaries since 1991",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/perspectives/",
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"order": 14
},
"link": "/perspectives",
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