Episode Transcript
Olivia Allen-Price (on a SF street): Just walk around any neighborhood in San Francisco, like the Mission where I am right now and you’ll see them. 4 feet tall, green, made of metal. They are (drumroll) … San Francisco’s trash cans.
In my experience, you can never seem to find one when you are looking for it, and when you do find one…it will often be surrounded by trash.
They’re usually broken in some way, which seems like quite a feat – like how do you even break a trash can? But there’s this recycling container at the top that gets busted, and then anything you try to recycle falls into the trash can below.
These trash cans got our question asker Matt Leonard wondering …
Matt Leonard: What’s the deal with San Francisco’s trash cans? Why are they so unwieldy and why does it seem like it’s so hard to get them replaced?
Olivia Allen-Price: I have some good news for Matt. San Francisco is in the process of replacing about 2,500 of these old city trash cans with a sleek new design.
But it’s been a long road, littered with obstacles to get here as we found out in 2022 when Bay Curious first reported on the cans.
In honor of the new models hitting the streets in a neighborhood near you, we’re going to reair a refreshed version of that episode – and share some updates at the end.
Olivia Allen-Price: Reporter Christopher Beale got the down and dirty on San Francisco’s trash cans for our question asker Matt…
Christopher Beale: Matt, this story is crazy.
Matt Leonard: Really?
Christopher Beale: Oh gosh, let me just break down what I found out so far.
For starters, these big green trash cans we have now have been in place since 1993. San Francisco officials call them Renaissance Cans, and in the almost 30 years since their installation they have certainly had their detractors, like Matt Haney. I caught up with him in the Tenderloin back in 2022 when he was the District 6 supervisor.
Matt Haney: You know, we’re a city that unfortunately has become known around the country and around the world for, dirty streets and sidewalks. And, there’s pretty much nothing more basic than a trash can. One of the frustrating things that I have experienced with our trash cans that we’ve had are that sometimes they’re part of the problem.
Christopher Beale: The story of San Francisco’s trash cans started to go a little sideways in 2018.
Christopher Beale (on phone): I don’t know if you’ve heard the name Walter Wong. If that name rings a bell?
Matt Leonard: Recently indicted or something, right?
Christopher Beale (on phone) Ding, ding, ding.
Matt Leonard: Yeah
Newsclip 1 – “Tonight, a strange twist in the San Francisco corruption probe. Our investigative unit has learned the city bought $5 million worth of public garbage cans from a vendor with ties to ousted public works director Mohammed Nuru.”
Newsclip 2 – Cans that one supervisor say make the city’s litter problem, worse.
Christopher Beale: Walter Wong was a permit expediter in San Francisco who pleaded guilty in 2020 to charges of conspiracy. He—and then Department of Public Works director Mohammed Nuru—worked together to trade City contracts for gifts…it’s messy.
Anyway… so Wong has a family member who owned a company called Alternate Choice LLC who made and maintained…you guessed it…Trash Cans! See where I’m going here?
Matt Leonard: This is what I was wondering.
Christopher Beale: Oh yes, the story of San Francisco’s dysfunctional trash cans, past, present, and even future are tied directly to Walter Wong, and Mohammed Nuru.
Matt Leonard: This is like The Sopranos mafia. You know, they control the trash that’s insane.
Christopher Beale: Permit expediter Wong cooperated with federal officials in the corruption case against Nuru. Wong and his companies ultimately paid about one and a half million dollars to the city because they violated ethics laws.
Matt Haney: The contract for these trash cans came about in a way that, very possibly could have been corrupt.
Christopher Beale: After their installation, city supervisors complained about the poorly maintained trash cans but Nuru defended them, refusing to buy alternatives.
Matt Haney: He was adamant in his protection of these broken trash cans. And I think it was pretty clear that he was protecting his buddies who were giving us really crappy cans.
Music
Christopher Beale: Ultimately, Mohammed Nuru was sentenced to 7 years in federal prison for honest services wire fraud – which is legal speak for taking bribes or offering kickbacks.
And so the Department of Public Works, under new leadership, ventured forward trying to fix the trash can situation.
I want to bring in Rachel Gordon.
Rachel Gordon: Spokesperson for San Francisco Public Works.
Christopher Beale: She shares Supervisor Haney’s frustration with the condition of San Francisco’s messy streets but says it’s vandals who are to blame for the used and abused trash cans…
Rachel Gordon: Folks like to do things like take the doors off, break the locks, ravage through them, scavenging looking for cans and bottles. Graffiti of them, knock them over.
Christopher Beale: Rachel says the department of public works has been working for years to try and find solutions to the trash can problems in the City. Things like removing trash cans in certain areas, putting more trash cans in others and even installing sensors to tell DPW when a can is full. And that data that will ultimately be used to pick where to put the next generation of trash cans.
Rachel Gordon: The bigger issue is how do we change behavior of people not trashing San Francisco in the first place? Like that’s a big challenge. I don’t have the magic wand for that. How do you get it in someone’s head that it’s not okay to litter. We got into a mindset with some people and certainly not all in San Francisco where they think you put it on the sidewalk and then we’ll get picked up. In San Francisco, public works picks up about 90,000 pounds of litter and debris a week from the city.
Christopher Beale: That’s from the streets?
Rachel Gordon: It’s from the streets.
Christopher Beale: Goodness, that is a lot.
Rachel Gordon: We have been looking at other cans and we have been trying other cans in the city. Uh, we haven’t found one that’s going to be the perfect can yet for San Francisco. Are we going to get to the perfect can? We don’t know that.
Christopher Beale: The perfect can is the goal. And whether it’s possible or not, the Department of Public Works is trying to get there. No off-the-shelf cans – like what you might see in any other American city – were deemed suitable. So the department commissioned a custom designed can with some really specific ideas about what it should do and look like.
They wanted something tamper proof. With wheels on the inner can can so workers don’t get hurt emptying them. A sensor that can tell when they’re full. Oh, and they have to be gorgeous.
Obviously.
In the blog post for this episode of Bay Curious there are some photos of the new trash can prototypes. One is called a soft square and has a little foot pedal on it. There is the elegant—for a trash can—Slim Silhouette and the Salt & Pepper that looks like a giant salt shaker.
These cans are sleek, they are modern, and they are designed to solve a lot of the problems we have with the current renaissance cans.
But will it work?
Olivia Allen-Price: When we return, we take a trip to where the prototype trash cans were being made and learn which one is being rolled out on city streets today. Stay with us.
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Olivia Allen-Price: San Francisco Public Works was considering three trash cans designs, the Soft Square, the Slim Silhouette and the Salt & Pepper. Christopher Beale takes us behind the scenes as they make a prototype.
Christopher Beale: The prototype cans are actually being made right here in San Francisco. The work is being done by this engineering Firm called A-P-R-O-E.
Mose O’Griffin: Advanced Prototype Engineering, but we say aye-pro-ee.
Christopher Beale: That’s Mose O’Griffin, he is the founder.
Mose O’Griffin: I went to Galileo high school here in San Francisco
Christopher Beale: He opened this shop in 2006.
Mose O’Griffin: It’s been a long, slow crawl to get here. So I’m really proud of what it’s become.
Christopher Beale: Mose gave me a little tour of his design shop where some really specific parts—like some that may eventually be created for the new trash cans–were being created.
Mose O’Griffin: This is a CNC milling machine. So it’s a computer controlled cutting machine. This is a milling machine. Over on the side, here was a lathe.These are kind of the workhorse machine tools. If you find a machine shop there’s mostly mills and lades, there are a lot of other really specific machines, but these are the more generic ones that can make lots and lots of different shapes.
Christopher Beale: Mose and his crew will be working to create real trash cans from those prototype drawings…
Mose O’Griffin: Those are from an industrial design firm. And industrial designers, their specialty is how do humans interact with shapes and how, you know, what are the right kinds of materials? They certainly do some level of, of engineering design, but, uh, we’re going to be doing the in-depth mechanical design. So the, what you said is correct where we’re taking those designs that we have been given, and we’re going to try as hard as we can to, to stay within the bounds of those shapes and material selections, and all those things, and try to figure out how to get them manufactured for, for the prices that they’ve they’ve outlined for us.
Christopher Beale: They’ll get that info figured out, and then the real work of making San Francisco’s new trash cans begins. And it’s worth noting that all of the work outside this shop is also being done by local businesses.
Mose O’Griffin: The local piece is huge. In terms of the ability of the residents of SF to come up with a really cool trashcan that you won’t see in any other city, that’s pretty cool, I think.
Music
Olivia Allen-Price: Since this story aired, those prototypes made by APROE spent some time on city streets and ultimately a best can was chosen…
Rachel Gordon with the big reveal…
Rachel Gordon: We selected the slim silhouette…
Olivia Allen-Price: It’s tall and wide, but, as the name says, slim – so it doesn’t take up too much walking space on the sidewalk.
Rachel Gordon: … the people who serviced the cans liked it best. We saw that it was easier to maintain, that means to be able to clean off graffiti as an example.
Olivia Allen-Price: There are currently 18 of these slim silhouette trash cans peppered all around the city as part of a pilot program. The city wants to see how they perform, and make any final adjustments to the design before placing a big order.
Rachel Gordon: So we’re liking what we’re seeing. We have made some tweaks to the locking mechanism.
Olivia Allen-Price: Next step, the city will start getting the trash cans mass produced in China, and ultimately you’ll find about 3,000 of them around town. The price per can, by the way, came out to about $1,400 – very comparable to the price of off-the-shelf cans, Rachel says.
It’s been a saga, but looks like we are close to putting a lid on this one.
Today’s story was reported by Christopher Beale.
Thanks to our listener Matt for asking this week’s question, and thanks also to the many members of KQED who listen to the podcast. Your support means everything. If you’re not a member yet, consider becoming one. All it takes is a donation. Whatever is comfortable for your budget. You can get started at donate.kqed.org/podcasts.
Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. Our show is produced by Katrina Schwartz, Christopher Beale, and me, Olivia Allen-Price. We get extra support from Maha Sanad, Katie Sprenger, Jen Chien, Ethan Toven-Lindsey, and everyone on Team KQED. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco Northern California Local.
I’m Olivia Allen-Price. Have a great week.