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Alexis Madrigal: Welcome to Forum. I’m Alexis Madrigal. It’s no surprise to anyone who listens to this show that I’m an Oakland resident, so I have my own daily perspective on what’s happened in our city during Mayor Barbara Lee’s tenure in office. My simplest take: things are better, at least in the parts of the city I know best — from the port up through West Oakland and on through North Oakland to the Berkeley border.
We’ve got some major problems too. Police overtime is staggering. Crime has plummeted over the last couple of years, but we’re no San Jose, to say nothing of tony suburbs. And while many neighborhoods are thriving, the downtown core is a shadow of its pre-pandemic self and shows few signs of returning to its previous vibrancy.
So, lots to talk about. Here with me is Mayor Barbara Lee. Welcome to the show, Mayor. It’s nice to have you back.
Barbara Lee: Nice to be back. Thank you.
Alexis Madrigal: We also want to invite listeners into the show early, particularly if you’re an Oakland resident. You can give us a call at 866-733-6786. We’ve got the mayor here with us. You can also email your comments and questions to forum@kqed.org.
So, take us back a little over a year ago. You took office — just on a gut level, how did the city look to you when you took over, and how did you view the challenge?
Barbara Lee: Thanks for that question. Remember, I was a resident of Oakland. I served in Congress for nearly twenty-seven years, but every weekend — three days — I was in Oakland. I literally commuted back and forth. During the campaign, people were saying I didn’t know Oakland, and I said, wait a minute, I know Oakland very well. I understand what took place before COVID, during COVID, and after COVID.
For me, it seemed like especially after COVID, there was a fog. The world was turned upside down during COVID, and I fought hard to bring in millions of dollars to Oakland just to weather the storm. Once we started transitioning out of COVID, it was another city — every city was another city. The world was different.
What I was determined to do was help lift that fog and let people know they had a city and a mayor working with them and for them. We needed more engagement so people could begin to trust the city, trust their elected officials, and help reset what had unfortunately taken place. It’s still a challenge, but we’re on the move. We’re engaged with people — working groups, going out into neighborhoods, taking police and public safety officials into communities, bringing budget officials in for town meetings.
Alexis Madrigal: Getting in proximity.
Barbara Lee: That’s right. We’re on the move. And believe me — I’m a resident, so I know that fog.
Alexis Madrigal: You came in with a hundred-day plan. In order, the priorities you named were: homelessness, illegal dumping, vegetation management, high-risk fire zones, working with OPD and business leaders on public safety, the Charter Reform Task Force, permitting reform, convening CEOs to address business and public safety issues, stabilizing city finances, attracting philanthropists, and auditing city contracts. Off the top of your head — which has gone the best, and which needs the most work?
Barbara Lee: Wow, that’s a lot.
Alexis Madrigal: Just pick one of each — one that’s gone well and one that needs work.
Barbara Lee: What’s gone well is resetting our strategy around homelessness and illegal dumping — even though most people don’t see or feel it yet. We were able to start a new initiative to keep the city clean. City staff, to their credit, began working overtime on weekends. We started neighborhood cleanups that are still ongoing, especially around schools and more severely impacted areas.
I worked with Council Member Zac Unger on a resolution and legislation that includes prevention, eradication, and education. We also used technology — and I’m very careful around privacy — specifically aerial mapping to identify where the majority of illegal dumping is occurring so we can deploy code enforcement proactively. That technology passed the Privacy Commission on a unanimous vote, which was very important.
On homelessness, we established the Office of Homelessness Solutions. Prevention is the priority. We have a strategic plan and are working to receive funding from Measure W from the county through a formula that includes equity. When you look at Alameda County and Oakland, Oakland is about twenty-two percent of the county’s population but accounts for about fifty-eight percent of the unsheltered population — and over seventy percent of those individuals are Black. That’s a racial inequity issue we have to address if we’re going to find real solutions.
Alexis Madrigal: When we talk about homelessness and changing strategies — what is your approach to encampment closures, what some call sweeps? The city council passed policy making it easier to conduct sweeps and tow RVs. Do you fundamentally agree with the council’s approach, or do you want something different?
Barbara Lee: Neighborhood health and safety is extremely important, as is making sure people have places to live — I firmly believe both. We need high-priority zones where encampments are not permitted and lower-priority zones with more space for RVs. My position was that we must find shelter first, because encampments can trigger serious public health crises, and we can’t simply recycle people from one location to another.
Housing is a basic human right, so we have to find that balance. I didn’t take a formal position on the council policy because I wanted to focus on our broader homelessness strategies. But I do know we made it a better policy as it moved through the process — the first priority became ensuring people have shelter to go to, which is what I focused on throughout.
Alexis Madrigal: My question is, when we looked at the numbers, we were a little surprised that camp closures have gone up during your tenure. It’s hard to know exactly how closures are being defined, but the core question is: do you want that number to go up or down?
Barbara Lee: I want the number to go down, and I want housing — shelter, transitional housing, supportive housing, permanent housing — to go up. That’s the point. We did the point-in-time count, and we’re down about twenty percent in Oakland. People don’t believe it, but it’s true — we verified the numbers.
And yes, I want to make sure everyone has a place to go. A lot of people who are unsheltered are actually working — they’re part of the working poor. The affordability crisis is real in Oakland. People not making enough to rent an apartment are living on the street. What I’m working on now is a model similar to a program in Oregon called Glitter, where people are hired and paid twenty to twenty-four dollars an hour to clean up dumping and trash. About seventy percent of those individuals find permanent housing because they have the income. The affordability crisis is central to what we have to address.
Alexis Madrigal: What can a mayor actually do about the affordability crisis?
Barbara Lee: We have to build more deeply affordable housing. I’m fighting in Sacramento for HAP funding — state funding — and working to reduce construction costs through tax incentives, identifying zones in the city where we need to build more deeply affordable housing, and converting motels and hotels in appropriate areas into shelter. The city can do a lot, and we are doing a lot. But we need resources to do more. Right now we’re barely treading water — though we’re going to keep pushing and raising additional resources.
Alexis Madrigal: You came in at a time when the budget was at a crisis point. We knew cuts were coming from the federal government. Regardless of whether Measure E passes — do you feel like the budget is at least stable right now?
Barbara Lee: I believe the budget is barely stable. And the facts are clear — people should not believe the misinformation. Under the Trump administration, we’ve lost at least twenty-four million dollars, and we’re projected to lose another five million from the state. That drain is going to continue.
We put forward a balanced budget, but it reflects only what we have now — nothing to move the city forward. We need more affordable housing, more shelter space, more services for unsheltered residents. And yes, it relied on some one-time measures to achieve balance.
The budget I presented is balanced within the context of no ballot measure passing — it would be irresponsible to assume something will pass or fail. But Measure E is important because we need to continue building affordable housing and expanding development strategies. Right now we’re treading water, but our residents deserve better.
I’ll also say this: when I was sworn in, the grand jury and others had concluded Oakland would never sell bonds again. We went to Wall Street anyway. What the bond market looks at is stability — and we demonstrated that. We sold three hundred and thirty-four million dollars in bonds for affordable housing, infrastructure, and transportation.
Alexis Madrigal: We’ve got Mayor Barbara Lee, who has been mayor of Oakland for over a year now. I’m Alexis Madrigal. Stay tuned for more right after the break.
