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Mina Kim: Welcome to Forum. I’m Mina Kim. It’s been hard to quantify the number of children who’ve been detained by ICE since President Trump took office, but a new analysis by The Marshall Project—a nonprofit newsroom focused on criminal justice—puts that number at more than 6,200. And with fewer people appearing at the border, many of these children are coming from the interior of the country, where they’ve been attending school and have been part of communities, in some cases, for years.
This hour, we take a closer look at how ICE has been carrying out these detentions of children and the impact it’s having on their lives. Joining me is Shannon Heffernan, staff writer at The Marshall Project. Shannon, welcome to Forum.
Shannon Heffernan: Thank you so much.
Mina Kim: Also with us, Anna Flagg, senior data reporter at The Marshall Project. Anna, really glad to have you too.
Anna Flagg: Thanks so much.
Mina Kim: So, Anna, let me start with you. A total of more than 6,200 children is pretty shocking when you realize it’s only been a little more than a year since Trump took office. About how many kids are in ICE custody on any given day?
Anna Flagg: Yeah, we’ve seen a huge increase in the number of kids in detention on any given day. Under Trump’s second term, there are about 226 children in ICE detention on an average day. You can compare that to the previous year under Biden, when there were about 24 children being held in ICE custody on an average day. That’s more than a tenfold increase.
Mina Kim: Wow. And I understand it’s been harder under this administration to get these numbers. How were you able to compile the data?
Anna Flagg: We used data collected by the Deportation Data Project, a research group that’s been requesting government data on immigration enforcement through FOIA—the Freedom of Information Act. They’ve been collecting, cleaning, processing, and sharing that data online for journalists to use. That’s been a really big service to all of us.
Mina Kim: So, Shannon, what’s also been remarkable is that border crossings are at historic lows. These are kids who’ve been living inside the country, presumably in some cases for quite some time. Can you paint a picture of who these kids are and where they’re being picked up?
Shannon Heffernan: Sure. It’s really wide-ranging where people are being picked up. You still see some border crossings, although, as you mentioned, those are at an all-time low. But we also see people being picked up in the interior of the United States—in places like Minneapolis or Chicago, where there have been some high-profile cases.
We spoke to families who had lived in the U.S. for years before they were detained. Some were deported with very little warning, leaving behind cars, pets, homes—very established lives. So in addition to the detention itself, the whole process—from detention to deportation or release—can be really traumatizing for families.
Mina Kim: Yes. And I remember Liam Ramos—he was walking home from school, I think, with his dad when he was picked up. But there are also people being detained when they are actively complying with their cases, appearing for hearings and check-ins?
Shannon Heffernan: Yeah, I think this is a really important point. One thing you’ll hear from the Trump administration is that people are being detained because they’re here illegally and need to follow the law. But in many cases we’ve reported on, families were picked up at court hearings or at required check-ins—so while they were literally complying with the law.
Mina Kim: And why do you think that is? Why target children and families who are in the system and complying with legal orders?
Shannon Heffernan: I’m always cautious about speculating on intentions. But what’s worth noting is that these are easy arrests. If your goal—as the Trump administration has stated—is to deport a large number of people, you go to places where you know you can find them. Court hearings and check-ins are places where people are required to show up, so they’re easier to detain—not necessarily because they’re dangerous or a flight risk, but because they’re accessible.
Mina Kim: It makes me think about the first Trump administration and family separations at the border. Reporting at the time suggested that was meant, in part, as a deterrent. Would you say this practice is having a similar effect—making people want to leave?
Shannon Heffernan: There are a couple of things to say there. First, yes—we know there are what the government calls “voluntary departures.” I use that term cautiously, because the “voluntary” aspect is often under duress. The threat of detention and separation is causing people to leave.
Second, we’ve heard from families and lawyers that people are reconsidering whether to comply with legal requirements. If people are being arrested when they show up for court or check-ins, it makes it much scarier to follow the very rules they’re expected to follow.
Mina Kim: And I saw in your reporting that an ICE spokesperson said detention is “a choice.” What did they mean by that?
Shannon Heffernan: They said people can leave the country voluntarily if they’re not in compliance with immigration laws. But immigration lawyers and experts say it’s much more complicated than that. For example, if a parent is undocumented but their child is a U.S. citizen, that child may not even have a passport. Leaving isn’t as simple as just picking up and going.
Mina Kim: So is it working? Are people with valid claims abandoning them because of detention?
Shannon Heffernan: Yes. We’ve heard from multiple lawyers and families that people with potentially valid claims are choosing to leave because detention conditions are so difficult, or because they’re afraid—sometimes explicitly threatened—with separation from their children.
Mina Kim: Let me invite listeners into the conversation. What are your reactions or questions about the way the Trump administration is detaining immigrant children and families? We’ll also talk about conditions in detention centers. If you or a loved one has been detained, or you know a child who has, we’d like to hear from you.
Email forum@kqed.org, find us on Discord, Bluesky, Facebook, Instagram, or Threads at KQED Forum, or call us at 866-733-6786. Again, that’s 866-733-6786.
Anna, you’ve noted that while family separations may not look like what we saw at the border during the first Trump term, families are still being divided in other ways. Can you explain?
Anna Flagg: That’s right. Family separation is still happening—it’s just happening differently. For example, when the government detains a parent without their child, that’s a separation. Officials may say parents have the choice to return to their home country with or without their child, but for families from unsafe countries, that’s an impossible decision.
Another example is when a primary caregiver is detained or deported and no one else is available to care for the child. In those cases, children can enter the foster care system. Once that process starts, it’s very difficult—especially for parents outside the country—to regain custody.
We’ve also seen cases where families are detained together, but then separated within the system—for instance, if a parent is transferred to another facility.
Mina Kim: And even when an entire family is deemed deportable, you’ve reported that the process itself has become more traumatic. How so?
Anna Flagg: The speed of deportations has made everything more difficult. Families are left scrambling to figure out who’s going, who’s staying, who will care for children, what happens to housing, jobs, education—even pets. The pace and lack of coordination put families in incredibly stressful situations.
Mina Kim: I imagine this is never an easy process, but how would it typically be handled more responsibly?
Anna Flagg: There’s little evidence that the people being targeted pose any risk to public safety. Much of this enforcement appears harsh without being effective. Even if you believed the premise that immigration enforcement reduces crime—which research doesn’t support—detaining children and deporting long-settled families wouldn’t be a logical approach.
Mina Kim: We’re talking with Anna Flagg, senior data reporter at The Marshall Project, and Shannon Heffernan, staff writer at The Marshall Project. They’ve been investigating children held in ICE detention centers—the numbers, the conditions, and the long-term impacts.
We’ll have more after the break. Stay with us. I’m Mina Kim.
