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Mina Kim: Welcome to Forum. I’m Mina Kim.
Democrats are calling for President Trump to appear before a congressional committee to answer questions about his relationship with the sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein and allegations that Trump sexually abused a thirteen-year-old trafficking victim.
Ro Khanna, the Silicon Valley congressman and co-sponsor of the law that forced the public release of the Epstein files, told Meet the Press that former president Bill Clinton’s testimony Friday before the House Oversight Committee set a precedent.
Ro Khanna (clip):
He didn’t take the Fifth. He answered every question fully, and the American people will be able to decide what they believe. The point, though, is that President Clinton has set a precedent—a new Clinton rule. That means Donald Trump should do the same: answer the questions. Howard Lutnick should do the same. And every person who went to that island or corresponded with Epstein about going to his mansion should be called under oath to tell us what they knew.
Mina Kim: Dozens of pages related to sexual abuse allegations against Trump are missing from the three-and-a-half-million-page release of documents by the Department of Justice a month ago.
NPR’s Stephen Fowler broke the story of the missing documents and joins me now. And a note to listeners: in this hour we will be discussing sexual assault.
Stephen, welcome to Forum.
Stephen Fowler: Thanks for having me.
Mina Kim: Tell us what exactly is missing and how you knew these allegations existed even though the documents themselves were missing.
Stephen Fowler: We’re not entirely sure about the specific contents of the documents that weren’t included in the Epstein files public database. But we do know they include interviews and notes that appear to come from a conversation the FBI had with a woman who accused President Trump and Jeffrey Epstein of sexual abuse more than forty years ago.
We know that because buried within the three million pages of files were two documents from the FBI and the Justice Department last year that provided updates on the case.
One was an FBI email compiling lists of claims and allegations made against President Trump, along with the steps investigators took and how credible they found the claims to be. The second was a Justice Department PowerPoint with an update on the various investigations into Epstein and his accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell.
There was a slide labeled “prominent names,” with President Trump’s name at the top. One of the two entries under his name referenced these allegations.
Mina Kim: So it’s unclear exactly what’s in the missing documents, but what do we know about the allegations themselves?
Stephen Fowler: We don’t have a lot of information. It’s a case where we know a little bit about the beginning of the story, a little about the end, and there are large gaps in the middle.
The allegations came through an FBI tip line from a woman who said that when she was a teenager in South Carolina, she was abused by Epstein. There were also mentions of Trump. But the FBI interview documents related to those allegations are not present in the public files.
That means the allegations appear briefly in the FBI email and the Justice Department PowerPoint, but the supporting documents that explain how those allegations were investigated are missing.
So we don’t know exactly what investigators found, the details of the claims, or whether they considered them credible, because those materials were not included in the files.
Mina Kim: There’s a more graphic description of the allegation in NPR’s reporting. To what extent have these allegations been verified?
Stephen Fowler: We know that the woman spoke with the FBI four times. We know that because the trove of documents includes two different sets of logs.
One is a serial report, essentially a table of contents of case documents compiled by the FBI. The other is a list of witness and non-witness interview records that were turned over to Maxwell’s defense team during her criminal case.
Those logs show that four interviews were conducted over several months. Only one of those interviews has been made public. In that interview, there are allegations involving Epstein and references to abuse, along with a passing reference to President Trump.
Specifically, the woman mentioned seeing a photograph of Trump and Epstein together and said she cropped Trump out of the picture.
These are serious allegations, but they are among many claims made in connection with Epstein over the years. Some are salacious, some are unverified, and the documents themselves often say investigators could not corroborate them.
Ultimately, we do not know the full extent of these allegations or how investigators evaluated them because the key documents are missing.
Mina Kim: Has the president or the White House addressed them?
Stephen Fowler: When we were working on the story, we asked the White House to comment on the documents and the allegations. A White House spokeswoman told NPR that Trump had, quote, “done more for Epstein’s victims than anyone before him.”
She pointed to actions such as releasing the records, signing the Epstein Files Transparency Act, cooperating with House Oversight Committee subpoena requests, and calling for investigations into Epstein associates—whom the White House described as Democrats.
Those were cited as evidence that Trump had been exonerated by the files, though the statement did not specifically address the allegations we reported.
Mina Kim: What about the Justice Department? What have they said about the missing files?
Stephen Fowler: Initially, the Justice Department did not respond on the record to questions about the specific documents we identified as withheld or removed.
Later in the week, officials said there are several reasons documents might be withheld from a public release: if they are duplicate copies, privileged information, or part of an ongoing federal investigation. They did not specify which category these documents fell under.
After some Democrats in the House called for investigations—and the Republican chair of the House Oversight Committee also said the issue was being reviewed—the department acknowledged that some files may have been mistakenly marked as duplicates and were being re-examined. But they did not provide further explanation.
Mina Kim: I want to bring another voice into the conversation now: Washington Post reporter Maegan Vazquez. Megan, thanks so much for being with us.
Maegan Vazquez: Thanks for having me.
Mina Kim: Based on all this, Long Beach Congressman Robert Garcia and Silicon Valley Congressman Ro Khanna are demanding that President Trump testify before the Oversight Committee, saying Bill Clinton’s testimony Friday set a precedent for a sitting president. Is that accurate?
Maegan Vazquez: There’s a growing drumbeat among Democrats on the committee calling for the president to appear. The problem is they can’t necessarily compel him to do so because they’re not in the majority.
My colleagues at The Washington Post spoke with Congressman Garcia, who said Democrats would definitely want to bring Trump in if they win control of the House in November. If the House flips to a Democratic majority, that could significantly change the stakes.
Mina Kim: You covered Bill Clinton’s deposition. He tried to distance himself from Epstein. How did he do that?
Maegan Vazquez: Quite bluntly, he said he saw nothing and knows nothing.
It was an interesting day in Chappaqua. We did not hear directly from the former president because the testimony happened behind closed doors at a performing arts center there.
What we know so far comes from Republicans and Democrats who spoke to the media during breaks in the testimony. At some point, we expect the video to be released.
Mina Kim: The files say Clinton took about half a dozen trips on Epstein’s private jet in 2002 and 2003, and your reporting notes that Clinton is referenced tens of thousands of times in the Epstein document trove. But Clinton says his association with Epstein ended before Epstein’s conviction and before the investigations into his trafficking of minors. Is there anything in the files that contradicts that?
Maegan Vazquez: Generally speaking, there aren’t direct exchanges from Clinton himself because he notably did not use email. So there isn’t clear documentary evidence contradicting that claim.
Mina Kim: Hillary Clinton called these investigations political theater and an insult to the American people. She says she never knew Epstein. Is that correct?
Maegan Vazquez: She says she never met Epstein but knew Ghislaine Maxwell as an acquaintance. Maxwell was photographed at Chelsea Clinton’s wedding.
Hillary Clinton told us Maxwell was essentially a “plus-one” guest at the wedding.
Mina Kim: Maxwell has said the Epstein Foundation played a role in the Clinton Global Initiative. How much did Epstein donate to the Clintons?
Maegan Vazquez: My understanding is that it was around $25,000. There are connections between Epstein and the Clinton Foundation ecosystem, but the depth of those ties hasn’t been fully investigated or explained by the Clintons. We’ll likely learn more once testimony and additional documents become public.
Mina Kim: I understand Democrats initially wanted a public hearing, but Republicans denied that request since they control the Oversight Committee.
Looking ahead, members of both parties have suggested subpoenaing Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick to appear before the committee. Where does that stand?
Maegan Vazquez: There are indications—even from some Republicans—that they want to hear from Lutnick. President Trump has said he believes the commerce secretary would appear voluntarily and testify about what he knows. But nothing has been formally scheduled yet, so it’s still uncertain what will happen next.
Mina Kim: Stephen, are there enough votes on the committee to bring him in?
Stephen Fowler: It’s not entirely clear. This congressional inquiry is separate from what federal investigators are doing, and congressional committees often operate on their own timelines and priorities, sometimes influenced by public pressure.
Mina Kim: We’re learning more about what’s in the Epstein files, who is being drawn into the network that Epstein cultivated, and where these investigations may lead.
My guests have been Stephen Fowler, political reporter for NPR’s Washington desk, and Maegan Vazquez, reporter for The Washington Post.
We’ll have more after the break. Stay with us. This is Forum. I’m Mina Kim.
