The federal government shut down at midnight on Tuesday after lawmakers failed to reach a deal to continue funding its operations. We hear from Bay Area congressman Mark DeSaulnier as Democrats and Republicans fight a messaging war over who to blame for what could be a long and painful period of no pay and potential job losses for federal employees.
Guests:
Mark DeSaulnier, United States Congressman, representing 10th district of California (the East Bay)
This transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.
Mina Kim: Welcome to Forum. I’m Mina Kim. Two key EV incentives end today: carpool lane access and tax credits for buying an EV. We’ll look at the impacts.
But first, the likely government shutdown we talked about on our show Monday is now a reality. The president and Republicans failed last night to reach a deal with Democrats, who are demanding an extension of health insurance subsidies and rollbacks on Medicaid cuts in exchange for funding bill votes. While services deemed essential are expected to continue, the longer the shutdown goes on, the more Californians will feel its effects.
Joining me now is Bay Area Congressman Mark DeSaulnier, who held a town hall last night on the shutdown’s impacts. Thank you for joining us, Congressman.
Mark DeSaulnier: My pleasure. Thank you for inviting me.
Mina Kim: So what did you tell your constituents last night about what a government shutdown will mean for them?
Mark DeSaulnier: I told them this is an attack on America’s public health system. The continuing resolution has baked into it everything we voted against in the “Big Ugly Bill.” The Kaiser Family Foundation, a well-respected nonprofit, says millions of Americans will lose their health care. Costs will go up while quality goes down. We’re already seeing this in anticipation of it taking effect in the next few years.
Mina Kim: We’re hearing, for example, that CalFresh has money for about a month. National parks will stay open but with very limited staff, which could mean huge effects on parks here in California. You didn’t vote for the funding bill in the House, but what did you hear from your constituents about whether they support that, even with the potential effects of a government shutdown?
Mark DeSaulnier: What I heard, vehemently, was that they’re with me. I’ve done more town halls than any other member of Congress, and the feedback is: it’s time to fight. We’ve tried to work with these folks, but every time we move toward them, they move farther away. They’re bullies. And the only way to succeed with bullies is to stand up to them. This is our moment.
Mina Kim: If that’s how you feel, I imagine the two sides aren’t talking. Should we be prepared for a long shutdown? Is anyone negotiating, Congressman?
Mark DeSaulnier: No. They haven’t reached out to any of us. I’m a progressive, but like my predecessor George Miller, I work with people from different parts of the country and different points of view. They’re not talking to us. And basically, they’re being told by the president not to talk to us.
Remember, the longest shutdown in history was during his first administration. This is how he negotiates, and we’re not having it. Every time we try, he wants more. The cost is to the American public, especially to our health.
Mina Kim: So should we be prepared for a shutdown of 35 days or longer? Is that what you’re preparing for?
Mark DeSaulnier: I am. And it’s going to be painful. There are real consequences to people. But there’s no way out of this until the American public says this is unacceptable—to negotiate this way. You can’t negotiate with extortionists, and that’s what we’re dealing with.
Mina Kim: Given what you’re describing, has the House basically decided to leave this in the Senate’s hands? I don’t see reporting of efforts in the House to draft an alternative bill.
Mark DeSaulnier: Well, you should, because we tried. Yesterday Rosa DeLauro from Connecticut presented our continuing resolution. Our compromise is to go back before the “Big Ugly Bill” and fix what’s in there.
That means protecting SNAP benefits and preserving health care. We went to the floor to force a pro forma session. It was telling: the Democratic side was filled, only one Republican showed up, and they refused to even hear our proposal. We’re not just saying “no.” We’re saying “no,” and here’s a plan to help the American public. But they’re in the majority. Elections matter, and they refuse to work with us or even listen.
Mina Kim: We’re talking with Congressman Mark DeSaulnier, who represents California’s 10th District, including Concord, Walnut Creek, and San Ramon. He’s also a member of the House committees on ethics, transportation, and infrastructure.
Congressman, you’re talking about a long shutdown. White House budget director Russell Vought has ordered agencies to consider mass firings rather than furloughs. Are you not worried Democrats will take the hit for that?
Mark DeSaulnier: I believe in the truth. And the truth is that Russell Vought is on a holy war. In a private speech in 2023, he said: “We want the bureaucrats to be traumatically affected. When they wake up in the morning, we want them not to want to go to work. We want their funding to be shut down. We want to put them in trauma.”
He’s the evil genius behind this. He believes in survival of the fittest. That might work for him and his billionaire friends, but for average Americans, these are public servants who protect the public every day. We’re fighting this in court, and we’re winning. Democracy Forward, a nonprofit we work with, has won 97% of its cases against the Trump administration. What he’s doing is unacceptable—for me, for the country’s future.
Mina Kim: So you believe he’s serious about this, but that you’ll prevail in court?
Mark DeSaulnier: We have to. And we can’t negotiate until Republicans who know better stand up. As Dante said, “The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.”
I remind my Republican colleagues of that. Some are afraid of Trump, but we have to fight. And I trust that in the long run, the majority of Americans will recognize the truth.
Mina Kim: You say you won’t stand for spin. But many analysts say a shutdown is an important messaging vehicle, and Republicans are very disciplined in their messaging. How will you counter that?
Mark DeSaulnier: People say I’m naive, but I believe in truth. If we go on shows like this and tell the truth, people will recognize it. A pox on the political consultants who spin this. Honesty is my strategy.
Mina Kim: Why is health care the right fight? You’ve also raised concerns about militarized policing, treatment of immigrants, and detention of U.S. citizens. Why focus on health care?
Mark DeSaulnier: Because of what’s in these bills—it’s about health care. I’m ranking member of the Health, Employment, Labor, and Pensions Subcommittee. I’m also a stage four cancer survivor. Health care is deeply personal to me.
One-fifth of our economy is health care. We have the highest costs of any developed country but the weakest outcomes. The Affordable Care Act started to fix that, and now they want to undo it. For me, this is the right fight because it’s the truth, and because people’s lives depend on it.
Mina Kim: You’re also on the transportation and infrastructure committee, and we’re about to talk about the end of incentives for EV drivers, including carpool lane access. You introduced a bill to extend that deadline to 2031. With the shutdown, is that bill dead?
Mark DeSaulnier: Yes. The good news is, the CHP and governor have said they won’t enforce it until December. That gives us time to negotiate. Some Republicans agree with me, particularly in suburban areas like New York.
I’ve been appointed by three governors to the California Air Resources Board. I’ve negotiated credits with auto manufacturers. HOV lanes are one tool to encourage EV use, which reduces pollution. The Bay Area leads the transition—25% of cars sold here last year were EVs.
Mina Kim: Congressman, your message is that we need to be prepared for a long government shutdown.
Mark DeSaulnier: Yes. As Frederick Douglass said, “There is no progress without struggle.” We’re in a struggle, and we have to push through it.
Mina Kim: Thanks for your time today.
Mark DeSaulnier: I appreciate you.
Mina Kim: We’ll have more after the break. Stay with us. You’re listening to Forum. I’m Mina Kim.