Wildfire season in California started early this year, and researchers say the fires are burning stronger because of the dry winter. The news is adding urgency to the effort to prevent fires like the 1991 Oakland Hills blaze that killed 25 people and destroyed more than 3,000 homes. But a proposal to cut 100,000 eucalyptus trees or more has stirred up controversy, and now, a long-running battle over the plan is coming to a head.
Rooting Out Non-Native Plants
One hot late-spring morning Tom Klatt, the environmental projects manager for University of California, Berkeley, brings me to a piece of the school’s land he’s particularly proud of, at the top of Claremont Canyon in the Berkeley hills. The university has logged all the eucalyptus trees here, and is removing other non-native plants in an effort to reduce the risk of wildfires.
Update: The city of Oakland has clarified their language in the EIR and has decided to pursue a thinning approach similar to East Bay Parks.
Klatt’s wearing a business suit, but he’s not above pulling up a few weeds as we walk. He yanks out poison hemlock that’s growing along the trail into the canyon.
“When we started this, this was a dark and shadowy tunnel of eucalyptus trees,” Klatt says. Now, it’s a sun-dappled spot; the hiking trail weaves through oak, bay and redwood trees. Those are native trees, as opposed to the eucalyptus, which are originally from Australia.
“We still have a forest, and this forest still can burn, but it doesn’t have the contribution of the eucalyptus litter. It doesn’t have the very tall trees that can ignite in crown fires and throw burning embers,” says Klatt.
Sponsored
An unkempt eucalyptus grove is a fire hazard, Klatt says. The oils in the trees burn easily, and when burning leaves and bark catch the wind, they can spread the fire rapidly. That’s why, more than ten years ago, the school began removing the eucalyptus from this piece of property, and why it wants to cut down about 50,000 more trees here and in two other locations in the hills.
UC Berkeley, along with the city of Oakland and the East Bay Regional Park District, is applying for a $5.6 million grant from FEMA to remove eucalyptus. The project covers almost 1,000 acres on park, university and city land. There are already fire mitigation projects going on here, like the one Klatt showed me, but this grant would expand the work. All told, 100,000 trees or more would be cut under the plan.
Tom Klatt, environmental projects manager for UC Berkeley. (Molly Samuel/KQED)
Fire in the Hills
The East Bay hills are susceptible to fire, and whether or not eucalyptus are there won’t change that. The summers are dry and hot, and the Diablo winds — the East Bay’s version of the Santa Ana winds — can whip a spark into a wildfire. The wind was a major player in the 1991 fire. A FEMA report found a host of factors contributed to it being the disaster that it was: lack of coordination between the agencies fighting the fire, lack of water, people getting trapped on the narrow winding streets and wood roofs bursting into flames.
But Mike Martin, a battalion chief with CalFire who fought that fire, says the eucalyptus played a role, too.
“Early on in the fire, it hit some eucalyptus coming out of the Marlborough Terrace area, and it just put out a huge barrage of burning embers downwind from the fire,” Martin recalls.
Those embers spread the fire, catching on vegetation and roofs. Martin says a single eucalyptus isn’t necessarily a fire hazard. It’s when there’s a bunch of them, shedding leaves and bark into heaps on the forest floor, that there can be disastrous results.
“When something like that is burning, there is nothing in our arsenal that can compete with it,” says Martin. “You’re not gonna find any firefighters saying eucalyptus aren’t a problem.”
Backlash Against the Plan
“It’s unfortunate that the ’91 fire is used as justification of this project because what really went wrong is not trees,” says Dan Grassetti, the founder of the Hills Conservation Network, a group opposed to the plan. They sued the park district over a related eucalyptus removal project, and is happier with the tactic East Bay Parks is taking now — thinning the eucalyptus groves on their land, rather than cutting them down wholesale. But Grassetti’s group has been fighting UC Berkeley’s plan to remove all the eucalyptus on its property since 2005, and has commissioned a report responding to FEMA’s draft environmental impact statement on the plan.
“The community’s been given a false choice,” he says. “The choice that UC’s put out there has been, either do what we want to do, or we do nothing. And that is just totally bogus as far as we’re concerned.”
Dan Grassetti, founder of the Hills Conservation Network. (Molly Samuel/KQED)
Grassetti brings me to a spot in Sibley Volcanic Regional Preserve that he thinks is a good example of how to limit fire risk — and keep the eucalyptus. A red-shouldered hawk calls behind us as we look down a shady hill at a forest of eucalyptus trees.
“You know, we’re standing here right now, and I would argue that it smells pretty good. And it’s kind of a pleasant environment. It’s shady. It’s cool. It’s good habitat,” Grassetti says. There’s space between the trees, and the ground below them is mostly clear of bark and leaves. “This is probably our ideal of how a eucalyptus grove could be maintained in the hills here.”
Grassetti argues, if UC Berkeley maintained its eucalyptus groves like this one, they wouldn’t be a fire hazard. But Klatt says keeping any of the trees isn’t sustainable.
“As long as you leave a single eucalyptus tree here that drops 20,000-plus seeds per year, you can be assured that you’re going to have regeneration of the species. So thinning it doesn’t get you out of the eucalyptus management business, doesn’t get you out of cleaning up the forest floor business and it isn’t really a solution.”
Grassetti and Klatt are on either end of the spectrum here. The Sierra Club has endorsed the plan. But when it comes to cutting the eucalyptus, many community members fall somewhere in the middle.
“I realize that the eucalyptus are a fire hazard, and for that reason it’s hard to object to that,” says Barbara Bauer. She lives near Claremont Canyon where she walks her dogs, Pal and Tempo. She was there for the ’91 fire; she had to evacuate and watched the hills burn. But she’s not on board with the plan to remove other trees, including acacia and Monterey pine. “I have real feelings for the trees that don’t necessarily have to go, for any good reason.”
And there are other concerns. Jeannie McKenzie raises goats and chickens in the backyard of her Oakland hills home.
“The thing I am most concerned about is these herbicides in our hills at the top of our watershed that is coming down through our properties,” says McKenzie.
The herbicides would be applied directly to the stumps of the eucalyptus as soon as they’re cut, to prevent regrowth. But Klatt says there would likely be some spraying, too, to control other weeds, which isn’t described in the draft environmental impact statement.
Klatt says he’s not surprised the plan’s been so controversial.
“We’re never going to get a consensus on environmental issues in the San Francisco Bay Area. We pretty much accept that,” he says.
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FEMA plans to begin working on the final environmental impact statement this summer. That will decide what – if any – elements of this plan they’ll fund. Klatt says the money would help them move faster, but either way, they’ll continue cutting, to try to limit the risk of another catastrophic wildfire in the hills.
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"title": "Battle Rages Over East Bay Wildfire Plan",
"headTitle": "Battle Rages Over East Bay Wildfire Plan | KQED",
"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"audio-wrap\">\n\u003ch2>Listen:\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>http://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/science/2013/06/2013-06-24-science.mp3\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>Wildfire season in California started early this year, and researchers say the fires are \u003ca href=\"http://www.kqed.org/a/forum/R201306060930\">burning stronger\u003c/a> because of the dry winter. The news is adding urgency to the effort to prevent fires like the 1991 Oakland Hills blaze that killed 25 people and destroyed more than 3,000 homes. But a proposal to cut 100,000 eucalyptus trees or more has stirred up controversy, and now, a long-running battle over the plan is coming to a head.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rooting Out Non-Native Plants\u003c/strong>\u003cbr>\nOne hot late-spring morning Tom Klatt, the environmental projects manager for University of California, Berkeley, brings me to a piece of the school’s land he’s particularly proud of, at the top of Claremont Canyon in the Berkeley hills. The university has logged all the eucalyptus trees here, and is removing other non-native plants in an effort to reduce the risk of wildfires.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_4657\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 403px\">\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/science/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2013/06/eucalyptus_rev1_900-e1372134472209.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-4657 \" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/science/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2013/06/eucalyptus_rev1_900-e1372134472209.jpg\" alt=\"Update: The city of Oakland has clarified their language in the EIR and has decided to pursue a thinning approach similar to East Bay Parks.\" width=\"403\" height=\"502\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Update: The city of Oakland has clarified their language in the EIR and has decided to pursue a thinning approach similar to East Bay Parks.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Klatt’s wearing a business suit, but he’s not above pulling up a few weeds as we walk. He yanks out poison hemlock that’s growing along the trail into the canyon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When we started this, this was a dark and shadowy tunnel of eucalyptus trees,” Klatt says. Now, it’s a sun-dappled spot; the hiking trail weaves through oak, bay and redwood trees. Those are native trees, as opposed to the eucalyptus, which are originally from Australia.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We still have a forest, and this forest still can burn, but it doesn’t have the contribution of the eucalyptus litter. It doesn’t have the very tall trees that can ignite in crown fires and throw burning embers,” says Klatt.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>An unkempt eucalyptus grove is a \u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/science/2013/06/12/eucalyptus-california-icon-fire-hazard-and-invasive-species/\">fire hazard\u003c/a>, Klatt says. The oils in the trees burn easily, and when burning leaves and bark catch the wind, they can spread the fire rapidly. That’s why, more than ten years ago, the school began removing the eucalyptus from this piece of property, and why it wants to cut down about 50,000 more trees here and in two other locations in the hills.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>UC Berkeley, along with the city of Oakland and the East Bay Regional Park District, is applying for a $5.6 million \u003ca href=\"http://ebheis.cdmims.com/Home.aspx\">grant from FEMA\u003c/a> to remove eucalyptus. The project covers almost 1,000 acres on park, university and city land. There are already fire mitigation projects going on here, like the one Klatt showed me, but this grant would expand the work. All told, 100,000 trees or more would be cut under the plan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_4622\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 640px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-4622\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/science/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2013/06/IMG_5369-e1371855710317.jpg\" alt=\"Tom Klatt, environmental projects manager for UC Berkeley. (Molly Samuel/KQED)\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Tom Klatt, environmental projects manager for UC Berkeley. (Molly Samuel/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fire in the Hills\u003c/strong>\u003cbr>\nThe East Bay hills are susceptible to fire, and whether or not eucalyptus are there won’t change that. The summers are dry and hot, and the Diablo winds — the East Bay’s version of the Santa Ana winds — can whip a spark into a wildfire. The wind was a major player in the 1991 fire. A \u003ca href=\"https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.calema.ca.gov%2Ffireandrescue%2Fdocuments%2Fafter%2520action%2Fthe%2520east%2520bay%2520hills%2520fire%2520-%2520usfa-tr-060%2520-%2520october%25201991.pdf&ei=a8vEUYeNOcf0iQK3tYCABw&usg=AFQjCNGbZE_KWO4sOVRbTMPIujhOa3aUnA&sig2=ICHqCqrsn5aL81Py8RCSDQ&bvm=bv.48293060,d.cGE&cad=rja\">FEMA report\u003c/a> found a host of factors contributed to it being the disaster that it was: lack of coordination between the agencies fighting the fire, lack of water, people getting trapped on the narrow winding streets and wood roofs bursting into flames.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Mike Martin, a battalion chief with CalFire who fought that fire, says the eucalyptus played a role, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://www.kqed.org/news/openspaces/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-8748\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-full wp-image-8748\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/science/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2013/06/hdpublicplaces-mod.jpg\" alt=\"hdpublicplaces-mod\" width=\"200\" height=\"46\">\u003c/a>“Early on in the fire, it hit some eucalyptus coming out of the Marlborough Terrace area, and it just put out a huge barrage of burning embers downwind from the fire,” Martin recalls.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Those embers spread the fire, catching on vegetation and roofs. Martin says a single eucalyptus isn’t necessarily a fire hazard. It’s when there’s a bunch of them, shedding leaves and bark into heaps on the forest floor, that there can be disastrous results.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When something like that is burning, there is nothing in our arsenal that can compete with it,” says Martin. “You’re not gonna find any firefighters saying eucalyptus aren’t a problem.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Backlash Against the Plan\u003c/strong>\u003cbr>\n“It’s unfortunate that the ’91 fire is used as justification of this project because what really went wrong is not trees,” says Dan Grassetti, the founder of the Hills Conservation Network, a group opposed to the plan. They sued the park district over a related eucalyptus removal project, and is happier with the tactic East Bay Parks is taking now — thinning the eucalyptus groves on their land, rather than cutting them down wholesale. But Grassetti’s group has been fighting UC Berkeley’s plan to remove all the eucalyptus on its property since 2005, and has \u003ca href=\"http://www.hillsconservationnetwork.org/HillsConservation3/Blog/Entries/2013/6/20_Next_Steps_files/HCN_Report_FINAL_06-17-2013b.pdf\">commissioned a report\u003c/a> responding to FEMA’s draft environmental impact statement on the plan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The community’s been given a false choice,” he says. “The choice that UC’s put out there has been, either do what we want to do, or we do nothing. And that is just totally bogus as far as we’re concerned.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_4617\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 640px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-4617\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/science/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2013/06/IMG_5360-e1371855484412.jpg\" alt=\"Dan Grassetti, founder of the Hills Conservation Network. (Molly Samuel/KQED) \" width=\"640\" height=\"360\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Dan Grassetti, founder of the Hills Conservation Network. (Molly Samuel/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Grassetti brings me to a spot in Sibley Volcanic Regional Preserve that he thinks is a good example of how to limit fire risk — and keep the eucalyptus. A red-shouldered hawk calls behind us as we look down a shady hill at a forest of eucalyptus trees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You know, we’re standing here right now, and I would argue that it smells pretty good. And it’s kind of a pleasant environment. It’s shady. It’s cool. It’s good habitat,” Grassetti says. There’s space between the trees, and the ground below them is mostly clear of bark and leaves. “This is probably our ideal of how a eucalyptus grove could be maintained in the hills here.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Grassetti argues, if UC Berkeley maintained its eucalyptus groves like this one, they wouldn’t be a fire hazard. But Klatt says keeping any of the trees isn’t sustainable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As long as you leave a single eucalyptus tree here that drops 20,000-plus seeds per year, you can be assured that you’re going to have regeneration of the species. So thinning it doesn’t get you out of the eucalyptus management business, doesn’t get you out of cleaning up the forest floor business and it isn’t really a solution.”\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignleft\">“We’re never going to get a consensus on environmental issues in the San Francisco Bay Area. We pretty much accept that.”\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>Grassetti and Klatt are on either end of the spectrum here. The Sierra Club has \u003ca href=\"http://theyodeler.org/?p=7539\">endorsed the plan\u003c/a>. But when it comes to cutting the eucalyptus, many community members fall somewhere in the middle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I realize that the eucalyptus are a fire hazard, and for that reason it’s hard to object to that,” says Barbara Bauer. She lives near Claremont Canyon where she walks her dogs, Pal and Tempo. She was there for the ’91 fire; she had to evacuate and watched the hills burn. But she’s not on board with the plan to remove other trees, including acacia and Monterey pine. “I have real feelings for the trees that don’t necessarily have to go, for any good reason.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And there are other concerns. Jeannie McKenzie raises goats and chickens in the backyard of her Oakland hills home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The thing I am most concerned about is these herbicides in our hills at the top of our watershed that is coming down through our properties,” says McKenzie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The herbicides would be applied directly to the stumps of the eucalyptus as soon as they’re cut, to prevent regrowth. But Klatt says there would likely be some spraying, too, to control other weeds, which isn’t described in the draft environmental impact statement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Klatt says he’s not surprised the plan’s been so controversial.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re never going to get a consensus on environmental issues in the San Francisco Bay Area. We pretty much accept that,” he says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>FEMA plans to begin working on the final environmental impact statement this summer. That will decide what – if any – elements of this plan they’ll fund. Klatt says the money would help them move faster, but either way, they’ll continue cutting, to try to limit the risk of another catastrophic wildfire in the hills.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"bio": "Molly Samuel joined KQED as an intern in 2007, and since then has worked here as a reporter, producer, director and blogger. Before becoming KQED Science’s Multimedia Producer, she was a producer for Climate Watch. Molly has also reported for NPR, KALW and High Country News, and has produced audio stories for The Encyclopedia of Life and the Oakland Museum of California. She was a fellow with the Middlebury Fellowships in Environmental Journalism and a journalist-in-residence at the National Evolutionary Synthesis Center. Molly has a degree in Ancient Greek from Oberlin College and is a co-founder of the record label True Panther Sounds.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cdiv class=\"audio-wrap\">\n\u003ch2>Listen:\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>http://www.kqed.org/.stream/anon/radio/science/2013/06/2013-06-24-science.mp3\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>Wildfire season in California started early this year, and researchers say the fires are \u003ca href=\"http://www.kqed.org/a/forum/R201306060930\">burning stronger\u003c/a> because of the dry winter. The news is adding urgency to the effort to prevent fires like the 1991 Oakland Hills blaze that killed 25 people and destroyed more than 3,000 homes. But a proposal to cut 100,000 eucalyptus trees or more has stirred up controversy, and now, a long-running battle over the plan is coming to a head.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rooting Out Non-Native Plants\u003c/strong>\u003cbr>\nOne hot late-spring morning Tom Klatt, the environmental projects manager for University of California, Berkeley, brings me to a piece of the school’s land he’s particularly proud of, at the top of Claremont Canyon in the Berkeley hills. The university has logged all the eucalyptus trees here, and is removing other non-native plants in an effort to reduce the risk of wildfires.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_4657\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 403px\">\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/science/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2013/06/eucalyptus_rev1_900-e1372134472209.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-4657 \" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/science/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2013/06/eucalyptus_rev1_900-e1372134472209.jpg\" alt=\"Update: The city of Oakland has clarified their language in the EIR and has decided to pursue a thinning approach similar to East Bay Parks.\" width=\"403\" height=\"502\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Update: The city of Oakland has clarified their language in the EIR and has decided to pursue a thinning approach similar to East Bay Parks.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Klatt’s wearing a business suit, but he’s not above pulling up a few weeds as we walk. He yanks out poison hemlock that’s growing along the trail into the canyon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When we started this, this was a dark and shadowy tunnel of eucalyptus trees,” Klatt says. Now, it’s a sun-dappled spot; the hiking trail weaves through oak, bay and redwood trees. Those are native trees, as opposed to the eucalyptus, which are originally from Australia.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We still have a forest, and this forest still can burn, but it doesn’t have the contribution of the eucalyptus litter. It doesn’t have the very tall trees that can ignite in crown fires and throw burning embers,” says Klatt.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>An unkempt eucalyptus grove is a \u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/science/2013/06/12/eucalyptus-california-icon-fire-hazard-and-invasive-species/\">fire hazard\u003c/a>, Klatt says. The oils in the trees burn easily, and when burning leaves and bark catch the wind, they can spread the fire rapidly. That’s why, more than ten years ago, the school began removing the eucalyptus from this piece of property, and why it wants to cut down about 50,000 more trees here and in two other locations in the hills.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>UC Berkeley, along with the city of Oakland and the East Bay Regional Park District, is applying for a $5.6 million \u003ca href=\"http://ebheis.cdmims.com/Home.aspx\">grant from FEMA\u003c/a> to remove eucalyptus. The project covers almost 1,000 acres on park, university and city land. There are already fire mitigation projects going on here, like the one Klatt showed me, but this grant would expand the work. All told, 100,000 trees or more would be cut under the plan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_4622\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 640px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-4622\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/science/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2013/06/IMG_5369-e1371855710317.jpg\" alt=\"Tom Klatt, environmental projects manager for UC Berkeley. (Molly Samuel/KQED)\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Tom Klatt, environmental projects manager for UC Berkeley. (Molly Samuel/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fire in the Hills\u003c/strong>\u003cbr>\nThe East Bay hills are susceptible to fire, and whether or not eucalyptus are there won’t change that. The summers are dry and hot, and the Diablo winds — the East Bay’s version of the Santa Ana winds — can whip a spark into a wildfire. The wind was a major player in the 1991 fire. A \u003ca href=\"https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.calema.ca.gov%2Ffireandrescue%2Fdocuments%2Fafter%2520action%2Fthe%2520east%2520bay%2520hills%2520fire%2520-%2520usfa-tr-060%2520-%2520october%25201991.pdf&ei=a8vEUYeNOcf0iQK3tYCABw&usg=AFQjCNGbZE_KWO4sOVRbTMPIujhOa3aUnA&sig2=ICHqCqrsn5aL81Py8RCSDQ&bvm=bv.48293060,d.cGE&cad=rja\">FEMA report\u003c/a> found a host of factors contributed to it being the disaster that it was: lack of coordination between the agencies fighting the fire, lack of water, people getting trapped on the narrow winding streets and wood roofs bursting into flames.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Mike Martin, a battalion chief with CalFire who fought that fire, says the eucalyptus played a role, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://www.kqed.org/news/openspaces/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-8748\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-full wp-image-8748\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/science/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2013/06/hdpublicplaces-mod.jpg\" alt=\"hdpublicplaces-mod\" width=\"200\" height=\"46\">\u003c/a>“Early on in the fire, it hit some eucalyptus coming out of the Marlborough Terrace area, and it just put out a huge barrage of burning embers downwind from the fire,” Martin recalls.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Those embers spread the fire, catching on vegetation and roofs. Martin says a single eucalyptus isn’t necessarily a fire hazard. It’s when there’s a bunch of them, shedding leaves and bark into heaps on the forest floor, that there can be disastrous results.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When something like that is burning, there is nothing in our arsenal that can compete with it,” says Martin. “You’re not gonna find any firefighters saying eucalyptus aren’t a problem.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Backlash Against the Plan\u003c/strong>\u003cbr>\n“It’s unfortunate that the ’91 fire is used as justification of this project because what really went wrong is not trees,” says Dan Grassetti, the founder of the Hills Conservation Network, a group opposed to the plan. They sued the park district over a related eucalyptus removal project, and is happier with the tactic East Bay Parks is taking now — thinning the eucalyptus groves on their land, rather than cutting them down wholesale. But Grassetti’s group has been fighting UC Berkeley’s plan to remove all the eucalyptus on its property since 2005, and has \u003ca href=\"http://www.hillsconservationnetwork.org/HillsConservation3/Blog/Entries/2013/6/20_Next_Steps_files/HCN_Report_FINAL_06-17-2013b.pdf\">commissioned a report\u003c/a> responding to FEMA’s draft environmental impact statement on the plan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The community’s been given a false choice,” he says. “The choice that UC’s put out there has been, either do what we want to do, or we do nothing. And that is just totally bogus as far as we’re concerned.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_4617\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 640px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-4617\" src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/science/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2013/06/IMG_5360-e1371855484412.jpg\" alt=\"Dan Grassetti, founder of the Hills Conservation Network. (Molly Samuel/KQED) \" width=\"640\" height=\"360\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Dan Grassetti, founder of the Hills Conservation Network. (Molly Samuel/KQED)\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Grassetti brings me to a spot in Sibley Volcanic Regional Preserve that he thinks is a good example of how to limit fire risk — and keep the eucalyptus. A red-shouldered hawk calls behind us as we look down a shady hill at a forest of eucalyptus trees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You know, we’re standing here right now, and I would argue that it smells pretty good. And it’s kind of a pleasant environment. It’s shady. It’s cool. It’s good habitat,” Grassetti says. There’s space between the trees, and the ground below them is mostly clear of bark and leaves. “This is probably our ideal of how a eucalyptus grove could be maintained in the hills here.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Grassetti argues, if UC Berkeley maintained its eucalyptus groves like this one, they wouldn’t be a fire hazard. But Klatt says keeping any of the trees isn’t sustainable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As long as you leave a single eucalyptus tree here that drops 20,000-plus seeds per year, you can be assured that you’re going to have regeneration of the species. So thinning it doesn’t get you out of the eucalyptus management business, doesn’t get you out of cleaning up the forest floor business and it isn’t really a solution.”\u003c/p>\n\u003caside class=\"pullquote alignleft\">“We’re never going to get a consensus on environmental issues in the San Francisco Bay Area. We pretty much accept that.”\u003c/aside>\n\u003cp>Grassetti and Klatt are on either end of the spectrum here. The Sierra Club has \u003ca href=\"http://theyodeler.org/?p=7539\">endorsed the plan\u003c/a>. But when it comes to cutting the eucalyptus, many community members fall somewhere in the middle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I realize that the eucalyptus are a fire hazard, and for that reason it’s hard to object to that,” says Barbara Bauer. She lives near Claremont Canyon where she walks her dogs, Pal and Tempo. She was there for the ’91 fire; she had to evacuate and watched the hills burn. But she’s not on board with the plan to remove other trees, including acacia and Monterey pine. “I have real feelings for the trees that don’t necessarily have to go, for any good reason.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And there are other concerns. Jeannie McKenzie raises goats and chickens in the backyard of her Oakland hills home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The thing I am most concerned about is these herbicides in our hills at the top of our watershed that is coming down through our properties,” says McKenzie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The herbicides would be applied directly to the stumps of the eucalyptus as soon as they’re cut, to prevent regrowth. But Klatt says there would likely be some spraying, too, to control other weeds, which isn’t described in the draft environmental impact statement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Klatt says he’s not surprised the plan’s been so controversial.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re never going to get a consensus on environmental issues in the San Francisco Bay Area. We pretty much accept that,” he says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>FEMA plans to begin working on the final environmental impact statement this summer. That will decide what – if any – elements of this plan they’ll fund. Klatt says the money would help them move faster, but either way, they’ll continue cutting, to try to limit the risk of another catastrophic wildfire in the hills.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"order": 8
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},
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"order": 1
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"id": "commonwealth-club",
"title": "Commonwealth Club of California Podcast",
"info": "The Commonwealth Club of California is the nation's oldest and largest public affairs forum. As a non-partisan forum, The Club brings to the public airwaves diverse viewpoints on important topics. The Club's weekly radio broadcast - the oldest in the U.S., dating back to 1924 - is carried across the nation on public radio stations and is now podcasting. Our website archive features audio of our recent programs, as well as selected speeches from our long and distinguished history. This podcast feed is usually updated twice a week and is always un-edited.",
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"order": 9
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"hidden-brain": {
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"source": "NPR"
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"how-i-built-this": {
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"airtime": "SUN 7:30pm-8pm",
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"hyphenacion": {
"id": "hyphenacion",
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"tagline": "Where conversation and cultura meet",
"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
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},
"jerrybrown": {
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"title": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown",
"tagline": "Lessons from a lifetime in politics",
"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
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"order": 18
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},
"latino-usa": {
"id": "latino-usa",
"title": "Latino USA",
"airtime": "MON 1am-2am, SUN 6pm-7pm",
"info": "Latino USA, the radio journal of news and culture, is the only national, English-language radio program produced from a Latino perspective.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/latinoUsa.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://latinousa.org/",
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"link": "/radio/program/latino-usa",
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},
"marketplace": {
"id": "marketplace",
"title": "Marketplace",
"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 4pm-4:30pm, MON-WED 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Marketplace-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.marketplace.org/",
"meta": {
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"source": "American Public Media"
},
"link": "/radio/program/marketplace",
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},
"masters-of-scale": {
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"title": "Masters of Scale",
"info": "Masters of Scale is an original podcast in which LinkedIn co-founder and Greylock Partner Reid Hoffman sets out to describe and prove theories that explain how great entrepreneurs take their companies from zero to a gazillion in ingenious fashion.",
"airtime": "Every other Wednesday June 12 through October 16 at 8pm (repeats Thursdays at 2am)",
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"meta": {
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"rss": "https://rss.art19.com/masters-of-scale"
}
},
"mindshift": {
"id": "mindshift",
"title": "MindShift",
"tagline": "A podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids",
"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED MindShift: How We Will Learn",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/mindshift/",
"meta": {
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 12
},
"link": "/podcasts/mindshift",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5",
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