Oakland School Board Approves Closure of Two Schools, Despite Fierce Parent, Teacher Opposition
Plan calls for closing Kaiser Elementary in Oakland hills and relocating to Sankofa Academy, roughly 3 miles away. It also entails closure of Oakland SOL, a middle school in East Oakland, and combining it with the nearby Frick Impact Academy.
Theresa Harrington (EdSource) and Julia McEvoy (KQED)
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Parents, students and teachers from OUSD schools slated for closure shouted "Shame on you!" during an OUSD board meeting on Wednesday, Sept. 11, as the board voted on merger plans. (Julia McEvoy/KQED)
Oakland’s school board voted late Wednesday night to close two schools and merge them with two others, following nearly five hours of fierce emotional testimony from parents, students and teachers who packed the meeting to voice their opposition.
The plan calls for closing Kaiser Elementary School in the Oakland hills and relocating its students and staff to Sankofa Academy in the Bushrod neighborhood, roughly 3 miles away. It also entails the closure of Oakland SOL, a middle school in East Oakland, and combining it with the nearby Frick Impact Academy.
With opponents shouting “Shame on you,” the board approved the proposal 5-2, with board members Roseann Torres and Shanthi Gonzales dissenting. The board also agreed to consider reopening the closed Santa Fe Elementary campus as part of the next round of school closures, consolidations and expansions.
In an effort to appease the many angry attendees at the meeting, Superintendent Kyla Johnson-Trammell said that each of the merged and expanded schools in this round of closures would get priority funding in the district’s 2020-21 budget to ensure they have the support they need to succeed.
“We will talk about what our priorities are,” she said. “We will need to think about the investments we need to make for the next school year.”
Johnson-Trammell, who backs the mergers, noted the weight of the decision, acknowledging that the district is expecting to lose students who may not want to stay after their schools have closed. But she also said this created an opportunity to build stronger merged schools that may actually attract new students moving into those neighborhoods.
The move follows the board’s recent approval of its Blueprint for Quality Schools plan to restructure the district and close up to 24 of its roughly 80 schools, many of which are under-enrolled and struggling academically.
In the first round of closures and mergers last year, which included the controversial shuttering of Roots International Academy, the district admitted it did not provide enough support to staff during the process. This time around, the district said, it has allotted $300,000 to help those school communities with the transition.
“Closing schools is not the answer to addressing those inequities,” Keith Brown, president of the Oakland Education Association, told the board. “It’s fully funding our schools.”
The proposal to close Kaiser and merge it with Sankofa has proved particularly controversial and racially fraught.
Kaiser is a diverse school in the more affluent hills with a sizable white population and strong parent involvement. Its excellent academic reputation draws students from largely middle-class families throughout North Oakland. Sankofa, on the other hand, has long struggled academically, with declining enrollment and a largely low-income, African American student body.
The months-long debate over their merger has involved heated exchanges about race and equity in Oakland, with some opponents accusing the district of pitting the two communities against each other.
Multiple parents and teachers from Kaiser gave emotional appeals before the board, pointing to the school as a shining model of success in a district with a less-than-stellar record. They implored the board to instead consider expanding the campus and bringing other schools into it.
“I think there’s a way to do this so we could be successful, but we don’t have buy-in to do this,” said Gonzales, who voted against the merger. “Without buy-in from teachers, and very little buy-in from parents, I don’t think it’s going to work and I think it’s a little irresponsible.”
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Some Kaiser parents have threatened to file lawsuits or initiate recall campaigns against board members. And a group of Kaiser teachers said they would refuse to participate in the redesign process, vowing to continue the fight after the vote.
“We will take a day to process and decide how to move forward as a community,” said Alicia Johnson, a Kaiser parent. “A lot of damage was done intentionally to both communities, and the way forward is unclear. The board is corrupt and does not care about best outcomes for children and communities.”
Sankofa parents and teachers, however, have said they would be happy to merge with anyone, as long as they could stay on their campuses and receive adequate resources to improve their school.
According to Johnson-Trammell, the schools will plan their “redesigns” this year and merge in 2020-21 with a goal of first getting the school communities to work together to support the new school and then moving toward improving academic achievement.
The board voted separately to close Oakland School of Language dual-language immersion middle school and merge it with Frick Academy, following Johnson-Trammell’s promise that the two schools could spend more than a year planning their redesigns if necessary after merging onto one campus.
That move, too, while not as contentious, has also drawn ire from community members.
“The children wear uniforms now. It’s a better situation. And all of a sudden you’re going to take the children in my district and move some other kids in there,” one Frick parent told the board. “It’s not fair. You need to stop, man. Seriously. You need to let our children have their school.”
Additionally, the board approved expanding the popular Melrose Leadership Academy onto two campuses. It also voted to invest more money in Fruitvale Elementary in East Oakland in the hope that more families in that neighborhood in will choose to send their children there.
Fruitvale “posted significant double-digit growth” in its Smarter Balanced statewide test scores in English and math for students in grades 3 through 5 in 2018-19, according to the staff report to the board.
Editor’s Note: As a special project, EdSource is tracking developments this year in the Oakland Unified and West Contra Costa Unified school districts as a way to illustrate some of the most urgent challenges facing many urban districts in California.
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"caption": "Parents, students and teachers from OUSD schools slated for closure shouted \"Shame on you!\" during an OUSD board meeting on Wednesday, Sept. 11, as the board voted on merger plans. ",
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"slug": "oakland-school-board-approves-closure-of-two-schools-despite-fierce-opposition-from-many-parents-and-teachers",
"title": "Oakland School Board Approves Closure of Two Schools, Despite Fierce Parent, Teacher Opposition",
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"content": "\u003cp>Oakland’s school board voted late Wednesday night to close two schools and merge them with two others, following nearly five hours of fierce emotional testimony from parents, students and teachers who packed the meeting to voice their opposition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The plan calls for closing Kaiser Elementary School in the Oakland hills and relocating its students and staff to Sankofa Academy in the Bushrod neighborhood, roughly 3 miles away. It also entails the closure of Oakland SOL, a middle school in East Oakland, and combining it with the nearby Frick Impact Academy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With opponents shouting “Shame on you,” the board approved the proposal 5-2, with board members Roseann Torres and Shanthi Gonzales dissenting. The board also agreed to consider reopening the closed Santa Fe Elementary campus as part of the next round of school closures, consolidations and expansions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote size='medium' align='right' citation=\"Alicia Johnson, Kaiser parent\"]‘A lot of damage was done intentionally to both communities, and the way forward is unclear.’[/pullquote]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In an effort to appease the many angry attendees at the meeting, Superintendent Kyla Johnson-Trammell said that each of the merged and expanded schools in this round of closures would get priority funding in the district’s 2020-21 budget to ensure they have the support they need to succeed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We will talk about what our priorities are,” she said. “We will need to think about the investments we need to make for the next school year.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Johnson-Trammell, who backs the mergers, noted the weight of the decision, acknowledging that the district is expecting to lose students who may not want to stay after their schools have closed. But she also said this created an opportunity to build stronger merged schools that may actually attract new students moving into those neighborhoods.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The move follows the board’s recent approval of its \u003ca href=\"https://www.ousd.org/Page/18311\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Blueprint for Quality Schools\u003c/a> plan to restructure the district and close up to 24 of its roughly 80 schools, many of which are under-enrolled and struggling academically.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the first round of closures and mergers last year, which included the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11721969/school-board-votes-decisively-to-close-east-oaklands-roots-middle-school-by-end-of-year\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">controversial shuttering\u003c/a> of Roots International Academy, the district admitted it did not provide enough support to staff during the process. This time around, the district said, it has allotted $300,000 to help those school communities with the transition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Closing schools is not the answer to addressing those inequities,” Keith Brown, president of the Oakland Education Association, told the board. “It’s fully funding our schools.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The proposal to close Kaiser and merge it with Sankofa has proved particularly controversial and racially fraught.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kaiser is a diverse school in the more affluent hills with a sizable white population and strong parent involvement. Its excellent academic reputation draws students from largely middle-class families throughout North Oakland. Sankofa, on the other hand, has long struggled academically, with declining enrollment and a largely low-income, African American student body.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The months-long debate over their merger has involved heated exchanges about race and equity in Oakland, with some opponents accusing the district of pitting the two communities against each other.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Multiple parents and teachers from Kaiser gave emotional appeals before the board, pointing to the school as a shining model of success in a district with a less-than-stellar record. They implored the board to instead consider expanding the campus and bringing other schools into it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think there’s a way to do this so we could be successful, but we don’t have buy-in to do this,” said Gonzales, who voted against the merger. “Without buy-in from teachers, and very little buy-in from parents, I don’t think it’s going to work and I think it’s a little irresponsible.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"related coverage\" tag=\"oakland-schools\"]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some Kaiser parents have threatened to file lawsuits or initiate recall campaigns against board members. And a group of Kaiser teachers said they would refuse to participate in the redesign process, vowing to continue the fight after the vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We will take a day to process and decide how to move forward as a community,” said Alicia Johnson, a Kaiser parent. “A lot of damage was done intentionally to both communities, and the way forward is unclear. The board is corrupt and does not care about best outcomes for children and communities.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sankofa parents and teachers, however, have said they would be happy to merge with anyone, as long as they could stay on their campuses and receive adequate resources to improve their school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to Johnson-Trammell, the schools will plan their “redesigns” this year and merge in 2020-21 with a goal of first getting the school communities to work together to support the new school and then moving toward improving academic achievement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The board voted separately to close Oakland School of Language dual-language immersion middle school and merge it with Frick Academy, following Johnson-Trammell’s promise that the two schools could spend more than a year planning their redesigns if necessary after merging onto one campus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That move, too, while not as contentious, has also drawn ire from community members.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The children wear uniforms now. It’s a better situation. And all of a sudden you’re going to take the children in my district and move some other kids in there,” one Frick parent told the board. “It’s not fair. You need to stop, man. Seriously. You need to let our children have their school.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Additionally, the board approved expanding the popular Melrose Leadership Academy onto two campuses. It also voted to invest more money in Fruitvale Elementary in East Oakland in the hope that more families in that neighborhood in will choose to send their children there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Fruitvale “posted significant double-digit growth” in its Smarter Balanced statewide test scores in English and math for students in grades 3 through 5 in 2018-19, according to the staff report to the board.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Editor’s Note: As a special project, EdSource is tracking developments this year in the Oakland Unified and West Contra Costa Unified school districts as a way to illustrate some of the most urgent challenges facing many urban districts in California.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "Plan calls for closing Kaiser Elementary in Oakland hills and relocating to Sankofa Academy, roughly 3 miles away. It also entails closure of Oakland SOL, a middle school in East Oakland, and combining it with the nearby Frick Impact Academy.\r\n",
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"description": "Plan calls for closing Kaiser Elementary in Oakland hills and relocating to Sankofa Academy, roughly 3 miles away. It also entails closure of Oakland SOL, a middle school in East Oakland, and combining it with the nearby Frick Impact Academy.\r\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Oakland’s school board voted late Wednesday night to close two schools and merge them with two others, following nearly five hours of fierce emotional testimony from parents, students and teachers who packed the meeting to voice their opposition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The plan calls for closing Kaiser Elementary School in the Oakland hills and relocating its students and staff to Sankofa Academy in the Bushrod neighborhood, roughly 3 miles away. It also entails the closure of Oakland SOL, a middle school in East Oakland, and combining it with the nearby Frick Impact Academy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With opponents shouting “Shame on you,” the board approved the proposal 5-2, with board members Roseann Torres and Shanthi Gonzales dissenting. The board also agreed to consider reopening the closed Santa Fe Elementary campus as part of the next round of school closures, consolidations and expansions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In an effort to appease the many angry attendees at the meeting, Superintendent Kyla Johnson-Trammell said that each of the merged and expanded schools in this round of closures would get priority funding in the district’s 2020-21 budget to ensure they have the support they need to succeed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We will talk about what our priorities are,” she said. “We will need to think about the investments we need to make for the next school year.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Johnson-Trammell, who backs the mergers, noted the weight of the decision, acknowledging that the district is expecting to lose students who may not want to stay after their schools have closed. But she also said this created an opportunity to build stronger merged schools that may actually attract new students moving into those neighborhoods.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The move follows the board’s recent approval of its \u003ca href=\"https://www.ousd.org/Page/18311\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Blueprint for Quality Schools\u003c/a> plan to restructure the district and close up to 24 of its roughly 80 schools, many of which are under-enrolled and struggling academically.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the first round of closures and mergers last year, which included the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11721969/school-board-votes-decisively-to-close-east-oaklands-roots-middle-school-by-end-of-year\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">controversial shuttering\u003c/a> of Roots International Academy, the district admitted it did not provide enough support to staff during the process. This time around, the district said, it has allotted $300,000 to help those school communities with the transition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Closing schools is not the answer to addressing those inequities,” Keith Brown, president of the Oakland Education Association, told the board. “It’s fully funding our schools.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The proposal to close Kaiser and merge it with Sankofa has proved particularly controversial and racially fraught.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kaiser is a diverse school in the more affluent hills with a sizable white population and strong parent involvement. Its excellent academic reputation draws students from largely middle-class families throughout North Oakland. Sankofa, on the other hand, has long struggled academically, with declining enrollment and a largely low-income, African American student body.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The months-long debate over their merger has involved heated exchanges about race and equity in Oakland, with some opponents accusing the district of pitting the two communities against each other.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Multiple parents and teachers from Kaiser gave emotional appeals before the board, pointing to the school as a shining model of success in a district with a less-than-stellar record. They implored the board to instead consider expanding the campus and bringing other schools into it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think there’s a way to do this so we could be successful, but we don’t have buy-in to do this,” said Gonzales, who voted against the merger. “Without buy-in from teachers, and very little buy-in from parents, I don’t think it’s going to work and I think it’s a little irresponsible.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some Kaiser parents have threatened to file lawsuits or initiate recall campaigns against board members. And a group of Kaiser teachers said they would refuse to participate in the redesign process, vowing to continue the fight after the vote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We will take a day to process and decide how to move forward as a community,” said Alicia Johnson, a Kaiser parent. “A lot of damage was done intentionally to both communities, and the way forward is unclear. The board is corrupt and does not care about best outcomes for children and communities.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sankofa parents and teachers, however, have said they would be happy to merge with anyone, as long as they could stay on their campuses and receive adequate resources to improve their school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to Johnson-Trammell, the schools will plan their “redesigns” this year and merge in 2020-21 with a goal of first getting the school communities to work together to support the new school and then moving toward improving academic achievement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The board voted separately to close Oakland School of Language dual-language immersion middle school and merge it with Frick Academy, following Johnson-Trammell’s promise that the two schools could spend more than a year planning their redesigns if necessary after merging onto one campus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That move, too, while not as contentious, has also drawn ire from community members.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The children wear uniforms now. It’s a better situation. And all of a sudden you’re going to take the children in my district and move some other kids in there,” one Frick parent told the board. “It’s not fair. You need to stop, man. Seriously. You need to let our children have their school.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"info": "The Commonwealth Club of California is the nation's oldest and largest public affairs forum. As a non-partisan forum, The Club brings to the public airwaves diverse viewpoints on important topics. The Club's weekly radio broadcast - the oldest in the U.S., dating back to 1924 - is carried across the nation on public radio stations and is now podcasting. Our website archive features audio of our recent programs, as well as selected speeches from our long and distinguished history. This podcast feed is usually updated twice a week and is always un-edited.",
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"order": 9
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"airtime": "SUN 7:30pm-8pm",
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"tagline": "Where conversation and cultura meet",
"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
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"order": 15
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"title": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown",
"tagline": "Lessons from a lifetime in politics",
"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-Political-Mind-of-Jerry-Brown-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"order": 18
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"info": "Latino USA, the radio journal of news and culture, is the only national, English-language radio program produced from a Latino perspective.",
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"marketplace": {
"id": "marketplace",
"title": "Marketplace",
"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 4pm-4:30pm, MON-WED 6:30pm-7pm",
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"source": "American Public Media"
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"masters-of-scale": {
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"title": "Masters of Scale",
"info": "Masters of Scale is an original podcast in which LinkedIn co-founder and Greylock Partner Reid Hoffman sets out to describe and prove theories that explain how great entrepreneurs take their companies from zero to a gazillion in ingenious fashion.",
"airtime": "Every other Wednesday June 12 through October 16 at 8pm (repeats Thursdays at 2am)",
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},
"mindshift": {
"id": "mindshift",
"title": "MindShift",
"tagline": "A podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids",
"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
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"order": 12
},
"link": "/podcasts/mindshift",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5",
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"morning-edition": {
"id": "morning-edition",
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"info": "\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. Hosts Steve Inskeep, David Greene and Rachel Martin bring you the latest breaking news and features to prepare you for the day.",
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"onourwatch": {
"id": "onourwatch",
"title": "On Our Watch",
"tagline": "Deeply-reported investigative journalism",
"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
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"order": 11
},
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"on-the-media": {
"id": "on-the-media",
"title": "On The Media",
"info": "Our weekly podcast explores how the media 'sausage' is made, casts an incisive eye on fluctuations in the marketplace of ideas, and examines threats to the freedom of information and expression in America and abroad. For one hour a week, the show tries to lift the veil from the process of \"making media,\" especially news media, because it's through that lens that we see the world and the world sees us",
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"link": "/radio/program/on-the-media",
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},
"pbs-newshour": {
"id": "pbs-newshour",
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"info": "Analysis, background reports and updates from the PBS NewsHour putting today's news in context.",
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},
"perspectives": {
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"order": 14
},
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"planet-money": {
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"info": "The economy explained. Imagine you could call up a friend and say, Meet me at the bar and tell me what's going on with the economy. Now imagine that's actually a fun evening.",
"airtime": "SUN 3pm-4pm",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/planetmoney.jpg",
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},
"link": "/radio/program/planet-money",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/planet-money/id290783428?mt=2",
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},
"politicalbreakdown": {
"id": "politicalbreakdown",
"title": "Political Breakdown",
"tagline": "Politics from a personal perspective",
"info": "Political Breakdown is a new series that explores the political intersection of California and the nation. Each week hosts Scott Shafer and Marisa Lagos are joined with a new special guest to unpack politics -- with personality — and offer an insider’s glimpse at how politics happens.",
"airtime": "THU 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Political-Breakdown-2024-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"order": 5
},
"link": "/podcasts/politicalbreakdown",
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"possible": {
"id": "possible",
"title": "Possible",
"info": "Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? Each episode also includes a short fiction story generated by advanced AI GPT-4, serving as a thought-provoking springboard to speculate how humanity could leverage technology for good.",
"airtime": "SUN 2pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Possible-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.possible.fm/",
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"source": "Possible"
},
"link": "/radio/program/possible",
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"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/730YpdUSNlMyPQwNnyjp4k"
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},
"pri-the-world": {
"id": "pri-the-world",
"title": "PRI's The World: Latest Edition",
"info": "Each weekday, host Marco Werman and his team of producers bring you the world's most interesting stories in an hour of radio that reminds us just how small our planet really is.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 2pm-3pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-World-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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