The latest findings from experts in the field related to the future of learning.
Ross Greene: What if Bad Behavior Isn’t the Problem?
Inflation is Sucking the Life Out of Teacher Pay Raises, Report Finds
Who Misses Out When Tutoring Starts Too Late?
Want to Lighten Your Mental Load? First, Let Go of These Gender Myths
How a SCOTUS Decision on Birthright Citizenship Could Impact Education Access
Retirees Are Helping Child Care Centers While Connecting with Community
How the New Dietary Guidelines Could Impact School Meals
How One City is Finding Badly Needed Early Educators — And Getting Them to Stay
If You Want Students to Learn, Don’t Tell Them 'Pay Attention!' Try This Instead
Many Rural Schools Rely on International Teachers. Trump's Visa Changes Threaten That
Why Teens Love to Hang Out at the Library
In Praise of the Humble Recorder — a Gateway Instrument for Millions of Schoolchildren
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ki Sung talks with clinical psychologist and author Ross Greene about why traditional discipline strategies often fail students, and what educators can do instead. Greene explains his \u003ca href=\"https://livesinthebalance.org/our-solution/\">Collaborative and Proactive Solutions\u003c/a> model, which shifts the focus away from rewards and punishments and toward identifying the unmet needs and unsolved problems behind student behavior.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"http://www.youtube.com/embed/4qsGTXLnmKs\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Welcome to the MindShift podcast, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Ki Sung. There’s been no shortage of stories about what’s troubling kids today, the outbursts, the apathy, the mental health concerns. We’re seeing some signs of progress through solutions like limiting screen time and having more in real-life social interactions, but there are still students who need help.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Kids-Who-Arent-Okay/Ross-W-Greene/9781668203903\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft size-full wp-image-66349\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/05/the-kids-who-arent-okay-9781668203903_lg.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"265\" height=\"400\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/05/the-kids-who-arent-okay-9781668203903_lg.jpg 265w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/05/the-kids-who-arent-okay-9781668203903_lg-160x242.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 265px) 100vw, 265px\">\u003c/a>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Dr. Ross Greene developed the \u003ca href=\"https://livesinthebalance.org/our-solution/\">Collaborative and Proactive Solutions Model\u003c/a> to help all students, and it requires a different way of responding to students’ behavior. He’s the author of the recently published book, \u003ca href=\"https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Kids-Who-Arent-Okay/Ross-W-Greene/9781668203903\">The Kids Who Aren’t Okay: The Urgent Case for Reimagining Support, Belonging, and Hope in Schools\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> He’s also the bestselling author of several other books, including The Explosive Child and Lost at School.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>Welcome, Dr. Greene.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Thank you for inviting me to do this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Thank you so much for being here. Let’s talk first about what you describe as concerning behavior, the stuff that gets kids sent to the principal’s office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> You say concerning behavior is how kids communicate that they’re having difficulty meeting a particular expectation. Can you tell us more?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> I do say that all the time, and I wish everybody knew that. We’ve, we’ve all become accustomed to the cliche “All behavior is communication.” Somehow, it doesn’t translate for a lot of people that concerning behavior communicates that a kid is frustrated or distressed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Concerning behavior is a frustration or distress response, and almost always, what the student is frustrated or distressed about is an expectation that they’re having difficulty meeting. Um, if all we pay attention to is the behavior, then we’re gonna be kinda narrow in what we can do, or… ’cause when you’re focused on behavior, all you can really do is try to modify it, and that’s usually accomplished through some mix of rewards and punishments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> But rewards and punishments, what a lot of people refer to as consequences, aren’t problem-solving strategies. So we have a lot of students who have experienced a lot of consequences and who are still doing poorly because the problems that are causing the behaviors that we’ve been busy consequencing often haven’t even been identified, let alone solved.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Um, it’s kinda wild to hear you say that because I hear a lot of focus on the behavior. So what are you proposing we do?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> I am proposing that we de-emphasize our focus on behavior, and by the way, our focus on behavior Is all around us. We are, um… When we have a kid who’s struggling and communicating that they’re struggling through their behavior, we do behavior checklists, we do behavior observations, we do a functional behavior assessment all so that we can come up with a behavior plan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> When a student is struggling in a classroom and communicate that through their concerning behavior, they get a discipline referral, and what the, the information that is mostly passed along to the people who are on the receiving end of those discipline referrals is the kid’s concerning behavior. And what they often do about it is give the kid consequences for their concerning behavior.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> We need to instead, um, focus on the problems that are causing that behavior. I call them unsolved problems. The synonym for unsolved problem is unmet expectation. This includes things like stuff classroom teachers deal with every day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Um, difficulty coming back into the classroom after recess, difficulty sitting next to Susie during circle time, difficulty completing the double-digit division problems on the worksheet in math, difficulty agreeing with Billy on the rules of the four square game at recess, difficulty coming to school, difficulty coming to school on time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> I could go on forever. Those are not typically the things people are talking about when they’re talking about a kid who’s struggling. They’re often talking about the kid’s concerning behavior and what they’re doing to try to modify it, and maybe even the diagnosis that captures those behaviors. We would be so much better off if we have an instrument that helps us identify their unsolved problems, and we do in the collaborative and proactive solutions model.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> And if we were engaging students in the process of solving those problems, meaning collaboratively, and since we’re now out in front of those problems, having now finally identified them, the problem should also be proactive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> I think there’s something huge in what you’re talking about solutions-wise in the word collaborative.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> It sounds like you’re talking about including the student as well in how to move forward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> That is so what I’m talking about. But I think a lot of adults, um, both in education, in education but also everywhere else, think it’s their job to divine what’s getting in the kid’s way and to divine what the solutions should be.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> This is not that. Kids can be relied upon to help us understand what’s making it hard for them to meet a particular expectation. I’m often asked the question, “What makes you think the kid knows?” And my answer is, “i35 years of asking.” Kids can also be relied upon to, um, come up with solutions t- about what’s getting in the way of them meeting certain expectations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> So this model is moving us away from being completely adult-driven. The adult is the facilitator of a process in which kid and adult are working toward solutions together. That is very different from what typically goes on now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> One thing I had to kind of work a little extra on to better understand is your concepts of collaborative and proactive solutions, because I realize a lot of why we continue to do what we’re doing, right, looking for behaviors, uh, trying to work in a behavior-focused model, I think a lot of why we operate that way is, is rooted in our communication, you know, how we communicate with young people, which is not necessarily open-ended, you know, which is thinking more about why have you not done this thing that I asked you to do already with the consequences in mind.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Um, so can you give us some examples of how people can communicate to get to that state of collaboration versus maybe how we typically communicate now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Well, very interesting question. You know, solving a problem collaboratively starts with identifying the problem that you want to solve with the kid, and although that sounds like sort of a given, it’s not.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Mostly because we’re so focused on behavior that we often haven’t even identified the expectations a student is having difficulty reliably meeting. So we’ve gotta start with that, and the instrument that I was talking about is called the Assessment of Skills and Unsolved Problems, and it helps us memorialize every single expectation a particular student is having difficulty reliably meeting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> And we are now, for having done that, out in front of it, which means we don’t have to wait for the frustration response to occur before we intervene. So much of intervention, so much of what we’re training educators to do, so much of what we’re teaching kids is what to do once a kid is already becoming frustrated, and that’s late.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> That’s crisis management. That’s not out in front of it. That’s waiting for the behavior to occur. Boy, does the game change when we proactively identify unsolved problems- That positions us to solve them proactively. Um, I’m always telling educators, being late is not a given. With some intentionality, with some commitment, with some imagination, we could be early instead of late.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> So identifying unsolved problems is where the whole thing begins. It then continues with prioritizing the unsolved problems you’ve identified, because you’re not gonna be able to solve everything at once. Often we encourage educators to prioritize unsolved problems that are causing safety issues, because safety is a big deal in schools.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> And then it’s time to start solving a problem collaboratively and proactively with a student. Um, what might that sound like? “I’ve noticed you’ve been having difficulty completing the double-digit division problems on the worksheet in math. What’s up?” The caregiver just got the conversation going. The caregiver is now facilitating a problem-solving process.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> The caregiver is not thinking about consequences, because the caregiver should know that consequences don’t solve any problems. Now we’re looking to the kid to help us understand what’s making it hard. Now, sometimes kids say something that feel like a showstopper, like, “I hate it.” But one of the other things the collaborative and proactive solutions model provides is how to drill for more information, how to probe, and the drilling strategy, there are eight of them that I would use in that circumstances, is simple reflective listening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> “You hate it. Tell me more about that.” “It’s stupid.” Sounds like another showstopper, but it’s not. “It’s stupid.” Um, “I’m sorry, I’m still not exactly sure what you mean. What do you mean when you say it’s stupid?” “It’s stupid how you make me do math I don’t know how to do.” Are we starting to get some traction here?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> We are. Do we need to continue probing? We do, because we don’t yet know what’s making it hard for the kid to complete the double-digit division problems on the worksheet in math. But we do have a kid who’s now talking, and that is a wonderful thing. Um, eventually, and I’m thinking of a particular kid here, we learned that, uh, when the double-digit division problems in math were presented in words, as in word problems, they got completely stumped.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> But when they could do it through, um, just doing out a division problem, they could do it just fine. Good. Now we know. That’s the first step of solving a problem collaboratively, curiosity, finding out what’s been getting in the kid’s way. The second step is the adult’s step. It’s their turn to say why they, um, think it’s important that the expectation Be met.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> And then in the third step, adult and kid are collaborating on a solution that’s going to address the concerns of both parties. Solved problems don’t cause frustration responses, only unsolved problems do. So when educators first hear about this process, and all I’ve given you is the basic outlines, the first thing they think about, and I completely understand why, is time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> They ask, “When does he think we’re going to do this?” But I could make a very persuasive argument for the fact that the reason we have no time is because we haven’t been doing this. We’ve been chasing after behavior day after day, same kids. It saves a lot of time to finally identify and solve the problems we’ve been chasing after all this time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Who was it that said, uh, “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> I don’t remember who it was, but they had a good point.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> All right. Um, can I ask, in that instance with the math problem, what is the unproductive way to respond that you may have seen or heard about in classrooms?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Oh, thinking that the student’s failure to do the math is due to poor motivation, and then thinking that what this student really needs is more motivation. And that could go in a few different directions. It could sound like this: “Uh, Billy, if you do not get that math done before recess, you are not going out for recess.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Could be in the form of reward, “Billy, if you get that math done, you get XYZ reward.” Very common. Um, we still have no idea what’s making it hard for Billy to do the math. We’ve lost sight of the fact that we are not the first people who’ve tried to incentivize Billy to do things that are hard for him. Um, we’ve also lost sight of the fact that this is not the first time Billy’s had difficulty completing the double-digit division problems on the worksheet in math.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> It’s the 197th, which makes this an old unsolved problem. Um, if we punish Billy for something, for a problem that he is currently unable to overcome on his own, we heighten the likelihood that Billy will exhibit a frustration response. If we dangle a reward in front of Billy, and Billy is unable to achieve that award because Billy is not yet over, uh, uh, able to overcome that problem- We still run the risk of a frustration response.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> I’ve seen just as many frustration responses when a kid didn’t get an anticipated reward as I have in response to punishment. But the whole thing here is we still don’t have the slightest idea what’s making it hard for Billy to do the double-digit division problems on the worksheet in math. And until we do, Billy’s still gonna struggle with that unsolved problem.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> It’s really fascinating to hear you describe the latter because that is far more common experience from my point of view than anyone having sat down and spent time identifying an unsolved problem. I like that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Even when people sit down with the kid and talk to the kid, what they’re often talking with the kid about is their concerning behavior.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Um, so you ran out of Mrs. Johnson’s classroom. Why’d you do that? And the answer that we most frequently get when people try to talk with kids about their frustration responses is, “I don’t know,” or the most primitive of defense mechanisms, “No, I didn’t.” Those conversations, generally speaking, go nowhere.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Conversations we have about helping kids understand what’s making it hard for them to meet an expectation, actually they’re the ones who are helping us understand, and working toward a solution that finally gets the problem solved so the frustration responses subside, that’s a beautiful thing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> So as you said, “I don’t know,” or, you know, other things kids say like, “I don’t care,” I imagine adults also have a frustration response.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Does this help get at the root of how adults respond as well?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Well, a lot of maladaptive adult frustration responses occur in the heat of the moment as well. Our goal is to get out of the heat of the moment. The heat of the moment, I can’t say this enough times, isn’t a given. I know the students are difficult.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> I get it. I know that there’s too many of them in a classroom. I get that too. But this would all be a whole lot easier, and it would be much better practice for both educators and kids if we were focused on the right thing. Now, that’s the heat of the moment part of educator frustration these days.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> There’s a lot of reasons that educators should be frustrated these days. Um, I think we’ve made it a lot harder to be an educator over the last two to three decades, and yes, high-stakes testing, I’m staring at you, but that is not the only thing that has made it harder to be an educator. I’ve had many educators say to me, “They’ve taken all the humanity out of my job.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> They’ve turned me into a test prep robot.” Um, zero tolerance policies, um, made it more difficult for me to find out what’s really going on with a kid because zero tolerance policies just tightened the vice grip and gave us an algorithm for applying consequences to certain behaviors. Um, we’ve made a lot of things harder on educators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Let there be no doubt they aren’t paid anywhere nearly enough. Um, they don’t have time. So there’s a baseline level of frustration for a lot of educators these days. They often don’t feel safe in their classrooms. Um, I find that when we implement this model, it’s not just the frustration of kids that subside, it’s the frustration of educators as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Although I will say this: there’s nothing about this model that will help educators get paid what they deserve.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Yeah, that is the, a huge goal for so many people in order to better serve students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>we’re going to take a short break. We’ll be back with our guest Ross Greene, right after this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>So, you know, I’ve heard a lot of educators say, “Meet them where they’re at,” or, you know, a version of this is, “Teach the kid you have.” Um, but that’s not happening at a wide scale. Um, is it really hard to implement? Is it, uh, like what is it about schools that make it challenging to get to that point?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> You know, one of the other big focal points of the book is, um, the concept of developmental variability, which I don’t hear people talking about enough, especially in schools, but anywhere really. Um, developmental variability basically says what’s walking in the door is a bunch of individual differences.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Developmental variability is just a fanciv- fancy way of saying every kid is different, and let there be no doubt that is what’s walking in every classroom. We’ve done kids and educators a tremendous disservice by saying, “Even with all that developmental variability, you gotta get every kid over the same line by the end of the school year.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> How ludicrous, and educators told us that was ludicrous 30 years ago, and it’s just as ludicrous now. One of the points I make in the book is that every kid should be their own reference point. Teachers should feel free to have every kid be their own reference point for progress. That tells you that there is no line that everybody has to get over.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> There’s no line. There’s just making sure that every student makes as much progress relative to where they started at the beginning in every school year, and we need to free teachers up to be able to do that. Um, that’s what differentiated instruction is about. That’s what personalized learning is about.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Unfortunately, those things frequently don’t embed themselves into our practice. Every kid is their own reference point. The goal of good teaching is defined as meeting every kid where they’re at. Um, we need to free teachers up to be able to do that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> You know, one thing that I thought was really interesting about your book is, I, I think this is interesting because teachers are asked to do so much, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> They are, in many cases, social workers. Sometimes they’re stand-ins for parents. They’re just doing more and more all the time, and what you write is that you don’t want teachers to be diagnosing, to look at behavior and diagnose behavior. Um, can you tell me why that is? And, and I ask because there is so much emphasis on the behavior side of interacting with students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> So why, why do you want teachers to, you know, not act in that way?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Well, because diagnoses don’t really tell you very much. Um, not very much that you don’t already know. Diagnoses are sometimes the gateway for a kid to get services. Diagnosis can sometimes be the gateway for a kid to get funding for those services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> I’m a mental health professional, and I don’t find that diagnoses give me much useful information about a kid. Um, what gives me the useful information? What skills this kid is struggling with and what expectations this kid is having difficulty reliably meeting, and I get that information from the assessment of skills and unsolved problems.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Here’s a, um, I was speaking at a, uh, autism conference in Denmark pre-COVID, and a mother in my audience raised her hand very tentatively and said, “Yeah, but I found my daughter’s autism diagnosis to be very useful.” I said, “That’s good.” Then she thought about it for a second, and she said, “But I think what you’re saying-” “Is that my daughter’s autism diagnosis really doesn’t tell me anything about her specific skills or the specific expectations she’s having difficulty meeting.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> I said, “Right.” She thought about it a little bit more, and then she said, “And I think what you’re saying is that once I identify my daughter’s skills and unsolved problems, I’m going to find that I have information that is far more useful than her psychiatric diagnosis.” I said, “Probably.” Um, focusing on diagnoses focuses on, makes us focus on behavior, because if we look at the diagnostic criteria for the vast majority of childhood psychiatric disorders, what we’re going to find is a long list of behaviors, frustration responses, distress responses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> So long as we’re focused on the behavior, we’re gonna be late every time, because behavior occurs after a kid is already having difficulty meeting a particular expectation. We’ve been waiting for behavior to occur. We need to start anticipating, identifying, and solving problems instead.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Dr. Ross Greene, thank you so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> My pleasure. Thanks for inviting me to do this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Dr. Ross Greene is the author of the recently published book, The Kids Who Aren’t Okay: The Urgent Case for Reimagining Support, Belonging, and Hope in Schools. He’s also the author of other books, including The Explosive Child and Lost at School, and is the founding director of Lives in the Balance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The MindShift team includes me, Ki Sung, Nimah Gobir, Marlena Jackson-Retondo and Marnette Federis. Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer. Jen Chien is our head of podcasts and Ethan Toven Lindsey is our editor in chief. We receive additional support from Maha Sanad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William & Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Thanks for listening to MindShift.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ki Sung talks with clinical psychologist and author Ross Greene about why traditional discipline strategies often fail students, and what educators can do instead. Greene explains his \u003ca href=\"https://livesinthebalance.org/our-solution/\">Collaborative and Proactive Solutions\u003c/a> model, which shifts the focus away from rewards and punishments and toward identifying the unmet needs and unsolved problems behind student behavior.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"http://www.youtube.com/embed/4qsGTXLnmKs\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Welcome to the MindShift podcast, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Ki Sung. There’s been no shortage of stories about what’s troubling kids today, the outbursts, the apathy, the mental health concerns. We’re seeing some signs of progress through solutions like limiting screen time and having more in real-life social interactions, but there are still students who need help.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Kids-Who-Arent-Okay/Ross-W-Greene/9781668203903\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft size-full wp-image-66349\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/05/the-kids-who-arent-okay-9781668203903_lg.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"265\" height=\"400\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/05/the-kids-who-arent-okay-9781668203903_lg.jpg 265w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/05/the-kids-who-arent-okay-9781668203903_lg-160x242.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 265px) 100vw, 265px\">\u003c/a>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Dr. Ross Greene developed the \u003ca href=\"https://livesinthebalance.org/our-solution/\">Collaborative and Proactive Solutions Model\u003c/a> to help all students, and it requires a different way of responding to students’ behavior. He’s the author of the recently published book, \u003ca href=\"https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Kids-Who-Arent-Okay/Ross-W-Greene/9781668203903\">The Kids Who Aren’t Okay: The Urgent Case for Reimagining Support, Belonging, and Hope in Schools\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> He’s also the bestselling author of several other books, including The Explosive Child and Lost at School.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>Welcome, Dr. Greene.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Thank you for inviting me to do this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Thank you so much for being here. Let’s talk first about what you describe as concerning behavior, the stuff that gets kids sent to the principal’s office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> You say concerning behavior is how kids communicate that they’re having difficulty meeting a particular expectation. Can you tell us more?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> I do say that all the time, and I wish everybody knew that. We’ve, we’ve all become accustomed to the cliche “All behavior is communication.” Somehow, it doesn’t translate for a lot of people that concerning behavior communicates that a kid is frustrated or distressed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Concerning behavior is a frustration or distress response, and almost always, what the student is frustrated or distressed about is an expectation that they’re having difficulty meeting. Um, if all we pay attention to is the behavior, then we’re gonna be kinda narrow in what we can do, or… ’cause when you’re focused on behavior, all you can really do is try to modify it, and that’s usually accomplished through some mix of rewards and punishments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> But rewards and punishments, what a lot of people refer to as consequences, aren’t problem-solving strategies. So we have a lot of students who have experienced a lot of consequences and who are still doing poorly because the problems that are causing the behaviors that we’ve been busy consequencing often haven’t even been identified, let alone solved.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Um, it’s kinda wild to hear you say that because I hear a lot of focus on the behavior. So what are you proposing we do?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> I am proposing that we de-emphasize our focus on behavior, and by the way, our focus on behavior Is all around us. We are, um… When we have a kid who’s struggling and communicating that they’re struggling through their behavior, we do behavior checklists, we do behavior observations, we do a functional behavior assessment all so that we can come up with a behavior plan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> When a student is struggling in a classroom and communicate that through their concerning behavior, they get a discipline referral, and what the, the information that is mostly passed along to the people who are on the receiving end of those discipline referrals is the kid’s concerning behavior. And what they often do about it is give the kid consequences for their concerning behavior.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> We need to instead, um, focus on the problems that are causing that behavior. I call them unsolved problems. The synonym for unsolved problem is unmet expectation. This includes things like stuff classroom teachers deal with every day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Um, difficulty coming back into the classroom after recess, difficulty sitting next to Susie during circle time, difficulty completing the double-digit division problems on the worksheet in math, difficulty agreeing with Billy on the rules of the four square game at recess, difficulty coming to school, difficulty coming to school on time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> I could go on forever. Those are not typically the things people are talking about when they’re talking about a kid who’s struggling. They’re often talking about the kid’s concerning behavior and what they’re doing to try to modify it, and maybe even the diagnosis that captures those behaviors. We would be so much better off if we have an instrument that helps us identify their unsolved problems, and we do in the collaborative and proactive solutions model.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> And if we were engaging students in the process of solving those problems, meaning collaboratively, and since we’re now out in front of those problems, having now finally identified them, the problem should also be proactive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> I think there’s something huge in what you’re talking about solutions-wise in the word collaborative.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> It sounds like you’re talking about including the student as well in how to move forward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> That is so what I’m talking about. But I think a lot of adults, um, both in education, in education but also everywhere else, think it’s their job to divine what’s getting in the kid’s way and to divine what the solutions should be.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> This is not that. Kids can be relied upon to help us understand what’s making it hard for them to meet a particular expectation. I’m often asked the question, “What makes you think the kid knows?” And my answer is, “i35 years of asking.” Kids can also be relied upon to, um, come up with solutions t- about what’s getting in the way of them meeting certain expectations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> So this model is moving us away from being completely adult-driven. The adult is the facilitator of a process in which kid and adult are working toward solutions together. That is very different from what typically goes on now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> One thing I had to kind of work a little extra on to better understand is your concepts of collaborative and proactive solutions, because I realize a lot of why we continue to do what we’re doing, right, looking for behaviors, uh, trying to work in a behavior-focused model, I think a lot of why we operate that way is, is rooted in our communication, you know, how we communicate with young people, which is not necessarily open-ended, you know, which is thinking more about why have you not done this thing that I asked you to do already with the consequences in mind.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Um, so can you give us some examples of how people can communicate to get to that state of collaboration versus maybe how we typically communicate now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Well, very interesting question. You know, solving a problem collaboratively starts with identifying the problem that you want to solve with the kid, and although that sounds like sort of a given, it’s not.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Mostly because we’re so focused on behavior that we often haven’t even identified the expectations a student is having difficulty reliably meeting. So we’ve gotta start with that, and the instrument that I was talking about is called the Assessment of Skills and Unsolved Problems, and it helps us memorialize every single expectation a particular student is having difficulty reliably meeting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> And we are now, for having done that, out in front of it, which means we don’t have to wait for the frustration response to occur before we intervene. So much of intervention, so much of what we’re training educators to do, so much of what we’re teaching kids is what to do once a kid is already becoming frustrated, and that’s late.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> That’s crisis management. That’s not out in front of it. That’s waiting for the behavior to occur. Boy, does the game change when we proactively identify unsolved problems- That positions us to solve them proactively. Um, I’m always telling educators, being late is not a given. With some intentionality, with some commitment, with some imagination, we could be early instead of late.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> So identifying unsolved problems is where the whole thing begins. It then continues with prioritizing the unsolved problems you’ve identified, because you’re not gonna be able to solve everything at once. Often we encourage educators to prioritize unsolved problems that are causing safety issues, because safety is a big deal in schools.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> And then it’s time to start solving a problem collaboratively and proactively with a student. Um, what might that sound like? “I’ve noticed you’ve been having difficulty completing the double-digit division problems on the worksheet in math. What’s up?” The caregiver just got the conversation going. The caregiver is now facilitating a problem-solving process.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> The caregiver is not thinking about consequences, because the caregiver should know that consequences don’t solve any problems. Now we’re looking to the kid to help us understand what’s making it hard. Now, sometimes kids say something that feel like a showstopper, like, “I hate it.” But one of the other things the collaborative and proactive solutions model provides is how to drill for more information, how to probe, and the drilling strategy, there are eight of them that I would use in that circumstances, is simple reflective listening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> “You hate it. Tell me more about that.” “It’s stupid.” Sounds like another showstopper, but it’s not. “It’s stupid.” Um, “I’m sorry, I’m still not exactly sure what you mean. What do you mean when you say it’s stupid?” “It’s stupid how you make me do math I don’t know how to do.” Are we starting to get some traction here?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> We are. Do we need to continue probing? We do, because we don’t yet know what’s making it hard for the kid to complete the double-digit division problems on the worksheet in math. But we do have a kid who’s now talking, and that is a wonderful thing. Um, eventually, and I’m thinking of a particular kid here, we learned that, uh, when the double-digit division problems in math were presented in words, as in word problems, they got completely stumped.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> But when they could do it through, um, just doing out a division problem, they could do it just fine. Good. Now we know. That’s the first step of solving a problem collaboratively, curiosity, finding out what’s been getting in the kid’s way. The second step is the adult’s step. It’s their turn to say why they, um, think it’s important that the expectation Be met.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> And then in the third step, adult and kid are collaborating on a solution that’s going to address the concerns of both parties. Solved problems don’t cause frustration responses, only unsolved problems do. So when educators first hear about this process, and all I’ve given you is the basic outlines, the first thing they think about, and I completely understand why, is time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> They ask, “When does he think we’re going to do this?” But I could make a very persuasive argument for the fact that the reason we have no time is because we haven’t been doing this. We’ve been chasing after behavior day after day, same kids. It saves a lot of time to finally identify and solve the problems we’ve been chasing after all this time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Who was it that said, uh, “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> I don’t remember who it was, but they had a good point.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> All right. Um, can I ask, in that instance with the math problem, what is the unproductive way to respond that you may have seen or heard about in classrooms?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Oh, thinking that the student’s failure to do the math is due to poor motivation, and then thinking that what this student really needs is more motivation. And that could go in a few different directions. It could sound like this: “Uh, Billy, if you do not get that math done before recess, you are not going out for recess.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Could be in the form of reward, “Billy, if you get that math done, you get XYZ reward.” Very common. Um, we still have no idea what’s making it hard for Billy to do the math. We’ve lost sight of the fact that we are not the first people who’ve tried to incentivize Billy to do things that are hard for him. Um, we’ve also lost sight of the fact that this is not the first time Billy’s had difficulty completing the double-digit division problems on the worksheet in math.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> It’s the 197th, which makes this an old unsolved problem. Um, if we punish Billy for something, for a problem that he is currently unable to overcome on his own, we heighten the likelihood that Billy will exhibit a frustration response. If we dangle a reward in front of Billy, and Billy is unable to achieve that award because Billy is not yet over, uh, uh, able to overcome that problem- We still run the risk of a frustration response.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> I’ve seen just as many frustration responses when a kid didn’t get an anticipated reward as I have in response to punishment. But the whole thing here is we still don’t have the slightest idea what’s making it hard for Billy to do the double-digit division problems on the worksheet in math. And until we do, Billy’s still gonna struggle with that unsolved problem.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> It’s really fascinating to hear you describe the latter because that is far more common experience from my point of view than anyone having sat down and spent time identifying an unsolved problem. I like that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Even when people sit down with the kid and talk to the kid, what they’re often talking with the kid about is their concerning behavior.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Um, so you ran out of Mrs. Johnson’s classroom. Why’d you do that? And the answer that we most frequently get when people try to talk with kids about their frustration responses is, “I don’t know,” or the most primitive of defense mechanisms, “No, I didn’t.” Those conversations, generally speaking, go nowhere.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Conversations we have about helping kids understand what’s making it hard for them to meet an expectation, actually they’re the ones who are helping us understand, and working toward a solution that finally gets the problem solved so the frustration responses subside, that’s a beautiful thing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> So as you said, “I don’t know,” or, you know, other things kids say like, “I don’t care,” I imagine adults also have a frustration response.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Does this help get at the root of how adults respond as well?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Well, a lot of maladaptive adult frustration responses occur in the heat of the moment as well. Our goal is to get out of the heat of the moment. The heat of the moment, I can’t say this enough times, isn’t a given. I know the students are difficult.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> I get it. I know that there’s too many of them in a classroom. I get that too. But this would all be a whole lot easier, and it would be much better practice for both educators and kids if we were focused on the right thing. Now, that’s the heat of the moment part of educator frustration these days.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> There’s a lot of reasons that educators should be frustrated these days. Um, I think we’ve made it a lot harder to be an educator over the last two to three decades, and yes, high-stakes testing, I’m staring at you, but that is not the only thing that has made it harder to be an educator. I’ve had many educators say to me, “They’ve taken all the humanity out of my job.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> They’ve turned me into a test prep robot.” Um, zero tolerance policies, um, made it more difficult for me to find out what’s really going on with a kid because zero tolerance policies just tightened the vice grip and gave us an algorithm for applying consequences to certain behaviors. Um, we’ve made a lot of things harder on educators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Let there be no doubt they aren’t paid anywhere nearly enough. Um, they don’t have time. So there’s a baseline level of frustration for a lot of educators these days. They often don’t feel safe in their classrooms. Um, I find that when we implement this model, it’s not just the frustration of kids that subside, it’s the frustration of educators as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Although I will say this: there’s nothing about this model that will help educators get paid what they deserve.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Yeah, that is the, a huge goal for so many people in order to better serve students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>we’re going to take a short break. We’ll be back with our guest Ross Greene, right after this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung: \u003c/strong>So, you know, I’ve heard a lot of educators say, “Meet them where they’re at,” or, you know, a version of this is, “Teach the kid you have.” Um, but that’s not happening at a wide scale. Um, is it really hard to implement? Is it, uh, like what is it about schools that make it challenging to get to that point?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> You know, one of the other big focal points of the book is, um, the concept of developmental variability, which I don’t hear people talking about enough, especially in schools, but anywhere really. Um, developmental variability basically says what’s walking in the door is a bunch of individual differences.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Developmental variability is just a fanciv- fancy way of saying every kid is different, and let there be no doubt that is what’s walking in every classroom. We’ve done kids and educators a tremendous disservice by saying, “Even with all that developmental variability, you gotta get every kid over the same line by the end of the school year.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> How ludicrous, and educators told us that was ludicrous 30 years ago, and it’s just as ludicrous now. One of the points I make in the book is that every kid should be their own reference point. Teachers should feel free to have every kid be their own reference point for progress. That tells you that there is no line that everybody has to get over.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> There’s no line. There’s just making sure that every student makes as much progress relative to where they started at the beginning in every school year, and we need to free teachers up to be able to do that. Um, that’s what differentiated instruction is about. That’s what personalized learning is about.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Unfortunately, those things frequently don’t embed themselves into our practice. Every kid is their own reference point. The goal of good teaching is defined as meeting every kid where they’re at. Um, we need to free teachers up to be able to do that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> You know, one thing that I thought was really interesting about your book is, I, I think this is interesting because teachers are asked to do so much, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> They are, in many cases, social workers. Sometimes they’re stand-ins for parents. They’re just doing more and more all the time, and what you write is that you don’t want teachers to be diagnosing, to look at behavior and diagnose behavior. Um, can you tell me why that is? And, and I ask because there is so much emphasis on the behavior side of interacting with students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> So why, why do you want teachers to, you know, not act in that way?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Well, because diagnoses don’t really tell you very much. Um, not very much that you don’t already know. Diagnoses are sometimes the gateway for a kid to get services. Diagnosis can sometimes be the gateway for a kid to get funding for those services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> I’m a mental health professional, and I don’t find that diagnoses give me much useful information about a kid. Um, what gives me the useful information? What skills this kid is struggling with and what expectations this kid is having difficulty reliably meeting, and I get that information from the assessment of skills and unsolved problems.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> Here’s a, um, I was speaking at a, uh, autism conference in Denmark pre-COVID, and a mother in my audience raised her hand very tentatively and said, “Yeah, but I found my daughter’s autism diagnosis to be very useful.” I said, “That’s good.” Then she thought about it for a second, and she said, “But I think what you’re saying-” “Is that my daughter’s autism diagnosis really doesn’t tell me anything about her specific skills or the specific expectations she’s having difficulty meeting.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> I said, “Right.” She thought about it a little bit more, and then she said, “And I think what you’re saying is that once I identify my daughter’s skills and unsolved problems, I’m going to find that I have information that is far more useful than her psychiatric diagnosis.” I said, “Probably.” Um, focusing on diagnoses focuses on, makes us focus on behavior, because if we look at the diagnostic criteria for the vast majority of childhood psychiatric disorders, what we’re going to find is a long list of behaviors, frustration responses, distress responses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> So long as we’re focused on the behavior, we’re gonna be late every time, because behavior occurs after a kid is already having difficulty meeting a particular expectation. We’ve been waiting for behavior to occur. We need to start anticipating, identifying, and solving problems instead.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Dr. Ross Greene, thank you so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ross Greene:\u003c/strong> My pleasure. Thanks for inviting me to do this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung:\u003c/strong> Dr. Ross Greene is the author of the recently published book, The Kids Who Aren’t Okay: The Urgent Case for Reimagining Support, Belonging, and Hope in Schools. He’s also the author of other books, including The Explosive Child and Lost at School, and is the founding director of Lives in the Balance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The MindShift team includes me, Ki Sung, Nimah Gobir, Marlena Jackson-Retondo and Marnette Federis. Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer. Jen Chien is our head of podcasts and Ethan Toven Lindsey is our editor in chief. We receive additional support from Maha Sanad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William & Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Thanks for listening to MindShift.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"content": "\u003cp>The average salary for a public school teacher in the U.S. rose to $74,495 in the last school year, up 3.5% from the year before. But adjusted for inflation, today’s teachers are estimated to be earning less, not more, than they were in 2017. That’s according to a \u003ca href=\"https://www.nea.org/resource-library/educator-pay-and-student-spending-how-does-your-state-rank\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cu>new review\u003c/u>\u003c/a> of school-related data from the National Education Association (NEA), the nation’s largest teachers union with 3 million members.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The annual release includes the latest data — collected directly from state departments of education — on teacher and support staff salaries, student enrollment and even how much money schools are getting from federal, state and local sources.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here are some of the most interesting findings:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul class=\"rte2-style-ul\">\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>$74,495 \u003c/strong>—\u003cstrong> The national average public school teacher salary\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>According to this new data, roughly 3.2 million teachers worked in U.S. public schools during the last school year, and, on average, they earned around $74,500 — not including benefits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The report breaks down teacher salaries by state and region, too. At the top of the rankings for 2024-25 are California ($103,552), New York ($98,655) and Washington ($96,589) while Mississippi ($54,975), Florida ($56,663) and Louisiana ($56,785) round out the low end.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These data come with an important caveat, though: They have not been adjusted for differences in the cost of living, which can vary greatly from ZIP code to ZIP code and could reasonably account for at least some of the gap in salaries.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul class=\"rte2-style-ul\">\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Inflation’s effect on teacher pay\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>NEA researchers used state department of education projections — or, when necessary, arrived at their own projections — to estimate teacher salary averages for 2026, then compared those estimates to salaries from 2017. At first glance, pay appears to have risen across the decade (in current dollars). But after adjusting for inflation, the researchers estimate that teachers’ real earnings have actually \u003cem>declined\u003c/em> by nearly 5%.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Dedicated educators show up every day in classrooms across this country to inspire, support, and lift up their students, but too many are struggling to stay in the profession they love,” NEA President Becky Pringle said in a press release. “They deserve pay that reflects their expertise, the strong support they need to succeed, and the respect that honors the essential role they play in shaping the future of this nation.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Of the 11 states that have seen an inflation-adjusted increase in teacher pay since 2017, one stands out, eclipsing the others. In Washington, teacher pay increased 36%. Why? Because the state’s supreme court \u003ca href=\"https://www.nwpb.org/nw-news/2017-11-15/washington-supreme-court-tells-lawmakers-find-1b-schools-2018\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cu>put the state on notice\u003c/u>\u003c/a>, including imposing a $100,000-a-day fine, that it needed to do more to fund and support its public schools.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul class=\"rte2-style-ul\">\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>$48,112 \u003c/strong>—\u003cstrong> The average salary for new teachers \u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>In 2024-25, the average salary nationally for new teachers jumped 3.4%, according to NEA’s report, but “after accounting for inflation, real salary growth was below 1%.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The states with the highest average starting salaries: District of Columbia ($64,640), Washington ($60,658), California ($59,424), New Jersey ($58,727) and Utah ($57,849).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The states with the lowest starting salaries: Montana ($36,682), Nebraska ($39,561), Missouri ($40,682), Oklahoma ($41,294) and Kentucky ($41,901).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Though again, this data has not been adjusted for regional differences in cost of living.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul class=\"rte2-style-ul\">\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>$36,360 \u003c/strong>—\u003cstrong> Average salary for K-12 public school support staff \u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>These are the folks who keep the nation’s public schools running without being directly involved in instruction — custodians, cafeteria workers, paraeducators, bus drivers and security staff.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That $36,360 average salary for support staff in 2024-25 is a $1,400 increase over the previous year, though, again, the inflation-adjusted long view tells a different story. Compared to 2016 salaries, researchers estimate public school support staff have seen a drop in pay of $2,344.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul class=\"rte2-style-ul\">\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>The collective bargaining effect\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>According to the new report, “states with collective bargaining laws have higher average starting and top salaries than states without them.” How much higher? Starting salaries are $366 higher, on average, while top salaries are $15,105 higher.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The data also suggest a wage bump for school support staff, who earn 13% more in states that allow collective bargaining. According to NEA, the vast majority of school districts – over 80% – sit in states with some kind of collective-bargaining law, and only seven states \u003ca href=\"https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/no-bargaining-rights-you-can-still-win\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cu>expressly prohibit\u003c/u>\u003c/a> bargaining for teachers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While there is clearly a correlation\u003cstrong>,\u003c/strong> or a connection\u003cstrong>,\u003c/strong> between salary and collective bargaining, there is not enough fine-grain data to draw a direct, causal link between the two.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s also worth noting an exception: While South Carolina does not have a collective-bargaining law, state lawmakers agreed to an 11% increase in pay for starting teachers last year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul class=\"rte2-style-ul\">\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Student enrollment is slowly declining\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Much has been made in recent years of a nationwide “enrollment cliff” stemming from fewer Americans choosing to have children around the time of the Great Recession. The new reports offer additional evidence of the cliff.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the beginning of the 2024-25 school year, public schools enrolled nearly 49 million students. That’s a 0.3% drop from the previous fall. But, when viewed through a longer lens, enrollment has fallen by roughly 3.6% since 2016.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What’s more, as part of NEA’s new release, researchers estimate that enrollment dipped another 1% just between last year and the current school year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul class=\"rte2-style-ul\">\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Schools enrolled an average of 15.1 students per teacher. \u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>This student-to-teacher ratio held steady between the 2023-24 and 2024-25 school years, though state-by-state averages revealed considerable variation. Arizona, Nevada and Utah, for example, averaged roughly 22 students per teacher, while Vermont, New York, and the District of Columbia all averaged between 10 and 11 students per teacher.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul class=\"rte2-style-ul\">\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>How school funding really works\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>President Donald Trump continues his efforts to \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/03/12/nx-s1-5325854/trump-education-department-layoffs-civil-rights-student-loans\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cu>dismantle the U.S. Department of Education\u003c/u>\u003c/a> in the name of “returning education to the states,” yet this new tranche of data shows just how small the federal footprint is already. Federal dollars — largely focused on helping schools mitigate the effects of student poverty and paying for special education services — accounted for 7.8% of schools’ total revenue during the last school year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Where do schools actually get their money?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The data shows that, for 2025, 47% of public schools’ funding came from state governments and roughly 45% from local governments, including local property taxes. NEA researchers also estimate the federal share of school funding dipped to 7.3% this year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That federal share has diminished in part because of the winding down of federal COVID-19 relief to public schools. Some states spent those dollars more quickly than others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Of the states where federal support is still estimated to make up 10% or more of schools’ funding, most are Republican-controlled: Kentucky (17.5%), Alaska (16.5), New Mexico (14.1), Louisiana (14.1), Arkansas (13), South Dakota (12.4), West Virginia (11.9), Mississippi (11.8), Montana (11.4), South Carolina (10.8), Tennessee (10.6), Alabama (10.3), Arizona (10.3) and Florida (10.2).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Edited by: Nirvi Shah\u003c/em>\u003cbr>\n\u003cem>Visual design and development by: \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/people/348775569/la-johnson\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cem>LA Johnson\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>The average salary for a public school teacher in the U.S. rose to $74,495 in the last school year, up 3.5% from the year before. But adjusted for inflation, today’s teachers are estimated to be earning less, not more, than they were in 2017. That’s according to a \u003ca href=\"https://www.nea.org/resource-library/educator-pay-and-student-spending-how-does-your-state-rank\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cu>new review\u003c/u>\u003c/a> of school-related data from the National Education Association (NEA), the nation’s largest teachers union with 3 million members.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The annual release includes the latest data — collected directly from state departments of education — on teacher and support staff salaries, student enrollment and even how much money schools are getting from federal, state and local sources.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here are some of the most interesting findings:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul class=\"rte2-style-ul\">\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>$74,495 \u003c/strong>—\u003cstrong> The national average public school teacher salary\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>According to this new data, roughly 3.2 million teachers worked in U.S. public schools during the last school year, and, on average, they earned around $74,500 — not including benefits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The report breaks down teacher salaries by state and region, too. At the top of the rankings for 2024-25 are California ($103,552), New York ($98,655) and Washington ($96,589) while Mississippi ($54,975), Florida ($56,663) and Louisiana ($56,785) round out the low end.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These data come with an important caveat, though: They have not been adjusted for differences in the cost of living, which can vary greatly from ZIP code to ZIP code and could reasonably account for at least some of the gap in salaries.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul class=\"rte2-style-ul\">\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Inflation’s effect on teacher pay\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>NEA researchers used state department of education projections — or, when necessary, arrived at their own projections — to estimate teacher salary averages for 2026, then compared those estimates to salaries from 2017. At first glance, pay appears to have risen across the decade (in current dollars). But after adjusting for inflation, the researchers estimate that teachers’ real earnings have actually \u003cem>declined\u003c/em> by nearly 5%.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Dedicated educators show up every day in classrooms across this country to inspire, support, and lift up their students, but too many are struggling to stay in the profession they love,” NEA President Becky Pringle said in a press release. “They deserve pay that reflects their expertise, the strong support they need to succeed, and the respect that honors the essential role they play in shaping the future of this nation.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Of the 11 states that have seen an inflation-adjusted increase in teacher pay since 2017, one stands out, eclipsing the others. In Washington, teacher pay increased 36%. Why? Because the state’s supreme court \u003ca href=\"https://www.nwpb.org/nw-news/2017-11-15/washington-supreme-court-tells-lawmakers-find-1b-schools-2018\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cu>put the state on notice\u003c/u>\u003c/a>, including imposing a $100,000-a-day fine, that it needed to do more to fund and support its public schools.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul class=\"rte2-style-ul\">\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>$48,112 \u003c/strong>—\u003cstrong> The average salary for new teachers \u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>In 2024-25, the average salary nationally for new teachers jumped 3.4%, according to NEA’s report, but “after accounting for inflation, real salary growth was below 1%.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The states with the highest average starting salaries: District of Columbia ($64,640), Washington ($60,658), California ($59,424), New Jersey ($58,727) and Utah ($57,849).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The states with the lowest starting salaries: Montana ($36,682), Nebraska ($39,561), Missouri ($40,682), Oklahoma ($41,294) and Kentucky ($41,901).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Though again, this data has not been adjusted for regional differences in cost of living.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul class=\"rte2-style-ul\">\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>$36,360 \u003c/strong>—\u003cstrong> Average salary for K-12 public school support staff \u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>These are the folks who keep the nation’s public schools running without being directly involved in instruction — custodians, cafeteria workers, paraeducators, bus drivers and security staff.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That $36,360 average salary for support staff in 2024-25 is a $1,400 increase over the previous year, though, again, the inflation-adjusted long view tells a different story. Compared to 2016 salaries, researchers estimate public school support staff have seen a drop in pay of $2,344.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul class=\"rte2-style-ul\">\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>The collective bargaining effect\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>According to the new report, “states with collective bargaining laws have higher average starting and top salaries than states without them.” How much higher? Starting salaries are $366 higher, on average, while top salaries are $15,105 higher.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The data also suggest a wage bump for school support staff, who earn 13% more in states that allow collective bargaining. According to NEA, the vast majority of school districts – over 80% – sit in states with some kind of collective-bargaining law, and only seven states \u003ca href=\"https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/no-bargaining-rights-you-can-still-win\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cu>expressly prohibit\u003c/u>\u003c/a> bargaining for teachers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While there is clearly a correlation\u003cstrong>,\u003c/strong> or a connection\u003cstrong>,\u003c/strong> between salary and collective bargaining, there is not enough fine-grain data to draw a direct, causal link between the two.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s also worth noting an exception: While South Carolina does not have a collective-bargaining law, state lawmakers agreed to an 11% increase in pay for starting teachers last year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul class=\"rte2-style-ul\">\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Student enrollment is slowly declining\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Much has been made in recent years of a nationwide “enrollment cliff” stemming from fewer Americans choosing to have children around the time of the Great Recession. The new reports offer additional evidence of the cliff.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the beginning of the 2024-25 school year, public schools enrolled nearly 49 million students. That’s a 0.3% drop from the previous fall. But, when viewed through a longer lens, enrollment has fallen by roughly 3.6% since 2016.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What’s more, as part of NEA’s new release, researchers estimate that enrollment dipped another 1% just between last year and the current school year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul class=\"rte2-style-ul\">\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Schools enrolled an average of 15.1 students per teacher. \u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>This student-to-teacher ratio held steady between the 2023-24 and 2024-25 school years, though state-by-state averages revealed considerable variation. Arizona, Nevada and Utah, for example, averaged roughly 22 students per teacher, while Vermont, New York, and the District of Columbia all averaged between 10 and 11 students per teacher.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul class=\"rte2-style-ul\">\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>How school funding really works\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>President Donald Trump continues his efforts to \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/03/12/nx-s1-5325854/trump-education-department-layoffs-civil-rights-student-loans\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cu>dismantle the U.S. Department of Education\u003c/u>\u003c/a> in the name of “returning education to the states,” yet this new tranche of data shows just how small the federal footprint is already. Federal dollars — largely focused on helping schools mitigate the effects of student poverty and paying for special education services — accounted for 7.8% of schools’ total revenue during the last school year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Where do schools actually get their money?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The data shows that, for 2025, 47% of public schools’ funding came from state governments and roughly 45% from local governments, including local property taxes. NEA researchers also estimate the federal share of school funding dipped to 7.3% this year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That federal share has diminished in part because of the winding down of federal COVID-19 relief to public schools. Some states spent those dollars more quickly than others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Of the states where federal support is still estimated to make up 10% or more of schools’ funding, most are Republican-controlled: Kentucky (17.5%), Alaska (16.5), New Mexico (14.1), Louisiana (14.1), Arkansas (13), South Dakota (12.4), West Virginia (11.9), Mississippi (11.8), Montana (11.4), South Carolina (10.8), Tennessee (10.6), Alabama (10.3), Arizona (10.3) and Florida (10.2).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For 30 years, Bellevue Elementary in Santa Rosa has relied on AmeriCorps services to support their students that need extra help. But when federal funding was cut, and later reinstated, that programming stalled, leaving some students behind.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In this episode, principal Nina Craig explains how the loss of tutors affected instruction and student relationships, while new AmeriCorps members, Maya Nurse and Elena Zeoli, describe stepping into classrooms with limited time and resources. We learn how even a few missed months of literacy support reduces how many students can be served.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC1557384124\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marlena Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>Welcome to Mind Shift, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Marlena Jackson Rotondo. It’s almost Winter break at Bellevue Elementary in Santa Rosa, California, and tutoring sessions for the school year have just begun. The schools to AmeriCorps tutors have gone through a crash course of training to prepare for the reading and writing support they’ll provide for the rest of the year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>AmeriCorps is an independent government agency whose volunteer members provide educational support and services to schools across the country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>On this morning, a small group of fourth graders reluctantly file into the room.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>They’ve been pulled out of their classroom to spend 30 minutes with the tutors, Maya Nurse and Elena Zeoli.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Maya has the students get straight to work reading a story out loud from a workbook In unison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mya Nurse:\u003c/strong> We’re gonna start with our choral style of reading today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mya Nurse:\u003c/strong> Ready? Go!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>All reading:\u003c/strong> My mother says to me, I choose a pretty paper fan with a picture of leaves and fireflies. I will keep my fan forever. When I grow up I will look at it and remember this night.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>The tutors stop the students every couple of sentences to ask about vocabulary in the text.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elena Zeoli:\u003c/strong> So what happened?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elena Zeoli:\u003c/strong> What unexpectedly happened? The wet… they were warned about the weather. They thought the waves were only gonna get to how tall? Do you remember from the first page? Student: mmmm….\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>The students seem timid, and when they do speak up, it’s very quiet. And sometimes the students don’t answer the questions at all, but Maya and Elena, unfazed by the silence, move on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> This is normal student behavior for the first week of tutoring at Bellevue Elementary, but what isn’t normal is that the first week of tutoring has been delayed this year by more than two months. Tutoring was supposed to start in early fall. Last April, all AmeriCorps funding was terminated by the Trump administration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong> This ended an almost three decade long collaboration between Bellevue Elementary and AmeriCorps.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These cuts happened immediately and without explanation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nina Craig:\u003c/strong> It was shocking how quickly it happened. Um, uh, literally felt like overnight.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nina Craig:\u003c/strong> so it kind of felt like the rug was pulled out from us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> That’s Nina Craig Bellevue, elementary’s principal of 10 years. Before that, she was a fifth grade teacher and she recalls working with AmeriCorps members then.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nina Craig:\u003c/strong> As a classroom teacher I remember them coming into my room and working with some of my students and having that partnership as a teacher\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> And because the AmeriCorps members were such an integral part of the school community, the cuts were difficult for Bellevue students too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nina Craig:\u003c/strong> The relationship with the kids that was established and for the kids to all of a sudden have these people gone that are such a vital part of our school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nina Craig:\u003c/strong> was really sad and really hard to explain, because they really do become a part of our school culture.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong> Through lawsuits. AmeriCorps funding cuts were reversed in June of last year, but by that time, schools like Bellevue Elementary were already behind for the next school year’s cycle of tutoring. Some schools across the district opted not to continue with tutoring and mentoring support from AmeriCorps members for the next school year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> This is because they had to make decisions about their funding and without the certainty of AmeriCorps services, they had to go without. And because programming was delayed, Bellevue students didn’t start tutoring until December instead of October.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nina Craig:\u003c/strong> there hasn’t been any tutoring offered for our third through sixth grade students until now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nina Craig:\u003c/strong> So without AmeriCorps, those students aren’t receiving any type of tutoring or intervention. And unless the teacher’s able to carve out time within their day to provide that,\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> AmeriCorps members provide one of Bellevue elementary’s only forms of tier two support. That’s targeted support in a small group setting. In this case, it helps students who are struggling with reading.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nina Craig:\u003c/strong> In years past, we’ve had literacy paraprofessionals that could support our tier two. Um, however, with budget cuts, this is our first year without having them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nina Craig:\u003c/strong> And so, um, we have one instructional aide. For the entire school\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nina Craig:\u003c/strong> But yeah, we’re very limited.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>The two AmeriCorps tutors contribute greatly to Bellevue’s tier two manpower, but it’s still not enough. The school reduced the kindergarten day by one and a half hours so that kindergarten teachers could provide extra support for Bellevue’s first and second grade classrooms. On short notice, and with no wiggle room in their budget.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> Bellevue Elementary had to make some hard choices. We’ll find out how they’re doing right after this break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>***Midroll Break***\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>When I visited Bellevue Elementary back in December, I spoke with Fonzi, a fourth grader, receiving small group literacy tutoring for 30 minutes per day, four days per week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong> Fonzi: \u003c/strong>Dog Man and then I Survived.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Fonzi’s telling me about the books he likes to read at home.,\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> What was that one?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fonzi:\u003c/strong> I Survived.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> What’s that one about?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fonzi:\u003c/strong> It’s um, there’s like different books.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong> Fonzi:\u003c/strong> There’s, um, a Titanic book that, um, sunk in the ocean.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> So you read about different survival stories? Whoa, that’s pretty cool.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> He feels like there’s less reading time when he’s in his classroom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fonzi:\u003c/strong> The things that are different is, um, we don’t like read a lot of books,\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> But when he’s in his tutoring sessions, reading time, one of his favorite things to do, is extended\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fonzi:\u003c/strong> At AR time, we um, read, we read books for 15 minutes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> Fonzi is part of a small group of fourth grade students who have been identified as needing extra support with reading. During a normal year, there’s enough time for two groups of students to cycle through tutoring support from AmeriCorps members. But this year, since tutoring at Bellevue started late, AmeriCorps members only have time to help half of the students that they normally would.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> At sites like Bellevue, the AmeriCorps tutors have become a staple in the school community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nina Craig:\u003c/strong> There’s so many ways AmeriCorps impacts because of the tutoring, the recess playtime, the mentoring. It’s so much connection. You guys probably know more of the kids’ names than I do, um, at this point. And you just started\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> And for Maya and Elena who are just starting their careers, the program offers them a glimpse into their professional future\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Maya Nurse:\u003c/strong> I know I want to do a job where I’m helping people and so I thought this was a great opportunity to, yeah, like, get some real life experience where I’m like serving others and I’m thinking of maybe doing something with social work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> The opportunity to work with students in a school setting also offered Maya something new.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Maya Nurse:\u003c/strong> I’ve never worked with kids, and so I was kind of like, I feel like I don’t know what I’m doing. Like, I don’t know if I..\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Maya Nurse:\u003c/strong> …If I can do this, at first, you know, I was a little timid, but then you kind of just jump in and, um, you start connecting with the kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>When I spoke with the tutoring pair back in December, Elena was already feeling optimistic about her future.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elena Zeoli:\u003c/strong> So far this job I feel extremely passionate about, which is, it’s just really nice waking up in the morning and I, I wake up early, like I wake up before my alarm clock ’cause I’m just excited to come to the school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> A couple months later, Maya and Elena felt comfortable in their roles,\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Maya Nurse:\u003c/strong> I just like know what I’m doing a little more. I kinda have a sense of like, we have a daily routine. I have really like good relationships with students now, so I’m like so excited to see them every day and they’re excited to see me and yeah, it’s great. It’s really good.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> And the AmeriCorps tutors have also noticed improvements in their students as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Maya Nurse:\u003c/strong> One of my students in sixth grade, in one of his tests, he was and like the 26th percentile for reading in like November. And now he is like in the 42nd percentile and I’m like, whoa, that’s so like rewarding and exciting that he’s like doing so much better and able to do that on his own now, like do it more on his own.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> But the reality of having to work within the school’s limited resources has also sunk in for Maya.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Maya Nurse:\u003c/strong> Sometimes also it’s like really hard to see like how some students struggle so much in school or like, you know, and I can only do so much and help them so much in that 30 minutes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Maya Nurse:\u003c/strong> yeah, just doing the best you can every day with what you have.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>ambi:\u003c/strong> Cat was going to wait the cat, and then this could change to hundreds of bugs in one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>ambi:\u003c/strong> He called his keys and…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>I walked into the tutoring classroom in February.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> It felt like a transformed space with students who were relaxed and eager to learn.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> Elena had also noticed a difference in her students too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elena Zeoli:\u003c/strong> I feel like they’re a lot more confident in answering questions and what to write down. So I feel like that’s. That’s like the biggest difference I’ve seen is like their confidence in what they’re writing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>ambi:\u003c/strong> So the door, what’s the door? Who does he know? What’s the door? It’s D, the OOR. Yeah. I thought it was E-D-O-O-O-R-H. What? All right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> Fonzi has also gained confidence in his reading abilities since December. He told me he’s reading three to four books a day and even tackling some chapter books.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fonzi:\u003c/strong> When I first came in and reading groups, um, we started reading books and stuff and I kind of got into it and I started reading books every day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> The benefits of extra reading support provided by the AmeriCorps tutors at school has extended into Fonzie’s home life as well. He and his siblings made up a reading game that they like to play at home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fonzi:\u003c/strong> We guess, like, the book that they have. They don’t show the covers. And we, guess, and then if we get it right, the people that have the book that the people say, they’re eliminated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>Even though there won’t be enough time to bring in another group of fourth graders for tutoring this school year, Elena and Maya look forward to the rest of their time with the students that they are able to help.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> Thank you to Bellevue Elementary’s faculty and staff who contributed their time to make this episode possible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>The MindShift team includes me, Marlena Jackson-Retondo, Nimah Gobir, and Ki Sung. Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer. Jen Chien is head of podcasts and Ethan Toven-Lindsey is KQED’s, editor-in-chief. We receive additional support from Maha Sanad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>Mindshift is supported in part by the generosity of the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED, some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio artists. San Francisco, Northern California Local.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>Thanks for listening.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For 30 years, Bellevue Elementary in Santa Rosa has relied on AmeriCorps services to support their students that need extra help. But when federal funding was cut, and later reinstated, that programming stalled, leaving some students behind.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In this episode, principal Nina Craig explains how the loss of tutors affected instruction and student relationships, while new AmeriCorps members, Maya Nurse and Elena Zeoli, describe stepping into classrooms with limited time and resources. We learn how even a few missed months of literacy support reduces how many students can be served.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC1557384124\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marlena Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>Welcome to Mind Shift, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Marlena Jackson Rotondo. It’s almost Winter break at Bellevue Elementary in Santa Rosa, California, and tutoring sessions for the school year have just begun. The schools to AmeriCorps tutors have gone through a crash course of training to prepare for the reading and writing support they’ll provide for the rest of the year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>AmeriCorps is an independent government agency whose volunteer members provide educational support and services to schools across the country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>On this morning, a small group of fourth graders reluctantly file into the room.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>They’ve been pulled out of their classroom to spend 30 minutes with the tutors, Maya Nurse and Elena Zeoli.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Maya has the students get straight to work reading a story out loud from a workbook In unison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mya Nurse:\u003c/strong> We’re gonna start with our choral style of reading today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mya Nurse:\u003c/strong> Ready? Go!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>All reading:\u003c/strong> My mother says to me, I choose a pretty paper fan with a picture of leaves and fireflies. I will keep my fan forever. When I grow up I will look at it and remember this night.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>The tutors stop the students every couple of sentences to ask about vocabulary in the text.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elena Zeoli:\u003c/strong> So what happened?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elena Zeoli:\u003c/strong> What unexpectedly happened? The wet… they were warned about the weather. They thought the waves were only gonna get to how tall? Do you remember from the first page? Student: mmmm….\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>The students seem timid, and when they do speak up, it’s very quiet. And sometimes the students don’t answer the questions at all, but Maya and Elena, unfazed by the silence, move on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> This is normal student behavior for the first week of tutoring at Bellevue Elementary, but what isn’t normal is that the first week of tutoring has been delayed this year by more than two months. Tutoring was supposed to start in early fall. Last April, all AmeriCorps funding was terminated by the Trump administration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong> This ended an almost three decade long collaboration between Bellevue Elementary and AmeriCorps.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These cuts happened immediately and without explanation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nina Craig:\u003c/strong> It was shocking how quickly it happened. Um, uh, literally felt like overnight.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nina Craig:\u003c/strong> so it kind of felt like the rug was pulled out from us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> That’s Nina Craig Bellevue, elementary’s principal of 10 years. Before that, she was a fifth grade teacher and she recalls working with AmeriCorps members then.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nina Craig:\u003c/strong> As a classroom teacher I remember them coming into my room and working with some of my students and having that partnership as a teacher\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> And because the AmeriCorps members were such an integral part of the school community, the cuts were difficult for Bellevue students too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nina Craig:\u003c/strong> The relationship with the kids that was established and for the kids to all of a sudden have these people gone that are such a vital part of our school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nina Craig:\u003c/strong> was really sad and really hard to explain, because they really do become a part of our school culture.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong> Through lawsuits. AmeriCorps funding cuts were reversed in June of last year, but by that time, schools like Bellevue Elementary were already behind for the next school year’s cycle of tutoring. Some schools across the district opted not to continue with tutoring and mentoring support from AmeriCorps members for the next school year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> This is because they had to make decisions about their funding and without the certainty of AmeriCorps services, they had to go without. And because programming was delayed, Bellevue students didn’t start tutoring until December instead of October.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nina Craig:\u003c/strong> there hasn’t been any tutoring offered for our third through sixth grade students until now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nina Craig:\u003c/strong> So without AmeriCorps, those students aren’t receiving any type of tutoring or intervention. And unless the teacher’s able to carve out time within their day to provide that,\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> AmeriCorps members provide one of Bellevue elementary’s only forms of tier two support. That’s targeted support in a small group setting. In this case, it helps students who are struggling with reading.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nina Craig:\u003c/strong> In years past, we’ve had literacy paraprofessionals that could support our tier two. Um, however, with budget cuts, this is our first year without having them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nina Craig:\u003c/strong> And so, um, we have one instructional aide. For the entire school\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nina Craig:\u003c/strong> But yeah, we’re very limited.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>The two AmeriCorps tutors contribute greatly to Bellevue’s tier two manpower, but it’s still not enough. The school reduced the kindergarten day by one and a half hours so that kindergarten teachers could provide extra support for Bellevue’s first and second grade classrooms. On short notice, and with no wiggle room in their budget.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> Bellevue Elementary had to make some hard choices. We’ll find out how they’re doing right after this break.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>***Midroll Break***\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>When I visited Bellevue Elementary back in December, I spoke with Fonzi, a fourth grader, receiving small group literacy tutoring for 30 minutes per day, four days per week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong> Fonzi: \u003c/strong>Dog Man and then I Survived.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Fonzi’s telling me about the books he likes to read at home.,\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> What was that one?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fonzi:\u003c/strong> I Survived.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> What’s that one about?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fonzi:\u003c/strong> It’s um, there’s like different books.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong> Fonzi:\u003c/strong> There’s, um, a Titanic book that, um, sunk in the ocean.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> So you read about different survival stories? Whoa, that’s pretty cool.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> He feels like there’s less reading time when he’s in his classroom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fonzi:\u003c/strong> The things that are different is, um, we don’t like read a lot of books,\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> But when he’s in his tutoring sessions, reading time, one of his favorite things to do, is extended\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fonzi:\u003c/strong> At AR time, we um, read, we read books for 15 minutes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> Fonzi is part of a small group of fourth grade students who have been identified as needing extra support with reading. During a normal year, there’s enough time for two groups of students to cycle through tutoring support from AmeriCorps members. But this year, since tutoring at Bellevue started late, AmeriCorps members only have time to help half of the students that they normally would.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> At sites like Bellevue, the AmeriCorps tutors have become a staple in the school community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nina Craig:\u003c/strong> There’s so many ways AmeriCorps impacts because of the tutoring, the recess playtime, the mentoring. It’s so much connection. You guys probably know more of the kids’ names than I do, um, at this point. And you just started\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> And for Maya and Elena who are just starting their careers, the program offers them a glimpse into their professional future\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Maya Nurse:\u003c/strong> I know I want to do a job where I’m helping people and so I thought this was a great opportunity to, yeah, like, get some real life experience where I’m like serving others and I’m thinking of maybe doing something with social work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> The opportunity to work with students in a school setting also offered Maya something new.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Maya Nurse:\u003c/strong> I’ve never worked with kids, and so I was kind of like, I feel like I don’t know what I’m doing. Like, I don’t know if I..\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Maya Nurse:\u003c/strong> …If I can do this, at first, you know, I was a little timid, but then you kind of just jump in and, um, you start connecting with the kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>When I spoke with the tutoring pair back in December, Elena was already feeling optimistic about her future.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elena Zeoli:\u003c/strong> So far this job I feel extremely passionate about, which is, it’s just really nice waking up in the morning and I, I wake up early, like I wake up before my alarm clock ’cause I’m just excited to come to the school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> A couple months later, Maya and Elena felt comfortable in their roles,\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Maya Nurse:\u003c/strong> I just like know what I’m doing a little more. I kinda have a sense of like, we have a daily routine. I have really like good relationships with students now, so I’m like so excited to see them every day and they’re excited to see me and yeah, it’s great. It’s really good.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> And the AmeriCorps tutors have also noticed improvements in their students as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Maya Nurse:\u003c/strong> One of my students in sixth grade, in one of his tests, he was and like the 26th percentile for reading in like November. And now he is like in the 42nd percentile and I’m like, whoa, that’s so like rewarding and exciting that he’s like doing so much better and able to do that on his own now, like do it more on his own.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> But the reality of having to work within the school’s limited resources has also sunk in for Maya.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Maya Nurse:\u003c/strong> Sometimes also it’s like really hard to see like how some students struggle so much in school or like, you know, and I can only do so much and help them so much in that 30 minutes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Maya Nurse:\u003c/strong> yeah, just doing the best you can every day with what you have.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>ambi:\u003c/strong> Cat was going to wait the cat, and then this could change to hundreds of bugs in one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>ambi:\u003c/strong> He called his keys and…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>I walked into the tutoring classroom in February.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> It felt like a transformed space with students who were relaxed and eager to learn.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> Elena had also noticed a difference in her students too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elena Zeoli:\u003c/strong> I feel like they’re a lot more confident in answering questions and what to write down. So I feel like that’s. That’s like the biggest difference I’ve seen is like their confidence in what they’re writing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>ambi:\u003c/strong> So the door, what’s the door? Who does he know? What’s the door? It’s D, the OOR. Yeah. I thought it was E-D-O-O-O-R-H. What? All right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> Fonzi has also gained confidence in his reading abilities since December. He told me he’s reading three to four books a day and even tackling some chapter books.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fonzi:\u003c/strong> When I first came in and reading groups, um, we started reading books and stuff and I kind of got into it and I started reading books every day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> The benefits of extra reading support provided by the AmeriCorps tutors at school has extended into Fonzie’s home life as well. He and his siblings made up a reading game that they like to play at home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fonzi:\u003c/strong> We guess, like, the book that they have. They don’t show the covers. And we, guess, and then if we get it right, the people that have the book that the people say, they’re eliminated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>Even though there won’t be enough time to bring in another group of fourth graders for tutoring this school year, Elena and Maya look forward to the rest of their time with the students that they are able to help.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo:\u003c/strong> Thank you to Bellevue Elementary’s faculty and staff who contributed their time to make this episode possible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>The MindShift team includes me, Marlena Jackson-Retondo, Nimah Gobir, and Ki Sung. Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer. Jen Chien is head of podcasts and Ethan Toven-Lindsey is KQED’s, editor-in-chief. We receive additional support from Maha Sanad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>Mindshift is supported in part by the generosity of the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED, some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio artists. San Francisco, Northern California Local.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/strong>Thanks for listening.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"content": "\u003cp>Remember to pick up paper towels on your way home from work! Oh, summer camp sign ups are at 6. Ooh, should you include your boss in that upcoming meeting this week?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>How do you lighten your mental load — those seemingly never-ending tasks you’re constantly keeping track of in your brain?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s a question that sociologist Leah Ruppanner explores in her new book, \u003ca href=\"https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/762972/drained-by-leah-ruppanner-phd/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cem>\u003cu>Drained: Reduce Your Mental Load to Do Less and Be More\u003c/u>\u003c/em>\u003c/a>, which comes out today. It offers evidence-based tools to reduce what she calls “emotional thinking work,” so we can use that energy in a more meaningful way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ruppanner, a professor at The University of Melbourne in Australia who has spent decades studying gender, work and family, has found that just being able to acknowledge and measure the mental load can slim it down. “Once we see it, we can’t unsee it. We can start to address it,” she says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While everyone has a mental load to some extent — women carry the greatest burden, she says. In \u003ca href=\"https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jomf.13057\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cu>one study of survey data\u003c/u>\u003c/a> with over 3,000 parents in the United States, she and other researchers found that women were responsible for over 70% of the domestic mental load, including keeping track of everyone’s schedules or remembering to delegate tasks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a conversation with Life Kit, Ruppanner unpacks some of the assumptions that keep a woman’s mental load heavy, and what it takes to reclaim your headspace. This interview has been edited for length and clarity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://npr.brightspotcdn.com/dims3/default/strip/false/crop/1900x1069+0+0/resize/1200/quality/75/format/jpeg/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnpr-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F5a%2Fd4%2F8a13595443ebaf2d8e2dc985ff43%2F260420-lk-drained-16x9.jpg\" alt=\"Drained: Reduce Your Mental Load to Do Less and Be More, is written by sociologist and researcher Leah Ruppanner.\">\u003cfigcaption>\u003cem>Drained: Reduce Your Mental Load to Do Less and Be More\u003c/em>, is written by sociologist and researcher Leah Ruppanner. \u003ccite> (Headshot courtesy of the author, Collage by NPR)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Let’s start with mental load and gender. What are some of the pervasive cultural myths that you wish would go away? \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One of the biggest lies we sell each other is that women are better multitaskers than men, that their brains are just more efficient at keeping track of all these competing things.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.apa.org/topics/research/multitasking\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cu>The research doesn’t show that\u003c/u>\u003c/a>. What it shows is that \u003cem>none\u003c/em> of us can multitask. What multitaskers are good at doing is task switching, which burns through some of your cognitive capacity and drains some of your energy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Another myth we tell each other is that women are really good household managers and men are terrible at this. But \u003ca href=\"https://www.un.org/esa/socdev/family/docs/egm16/BehsonRobbins.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cu>[research has shown]\u003c/u>\u003c/a> that men who engage in the primary care of children and take care of the household, they’re healthier, they’re happier, they’re more balanced.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some of these social norms just position [women] to take on the work. Then we set each other up to reinforce these gender roles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>You \u003c/strong>\u003ca href=\"https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0049124119852395\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cstrong>\u003cu>ran a study\u003c/u>\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003cstrong> testing the stereotype that “men can’t see the mess.” \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With colleagues at University of California, Santa Barbara, and New York University, we showed [male and female participants] a messy room and a clean room. And we asked them: Can you rate the messiness of this room?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We found that men and women rate it as equally clean and equally messy. So this idea that “men can’t see the mess or dirt” is nonsense. Let’s stop saying that to each other and believing it. Men can see the socks on the floor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>You say that one of the most effective ways to lighten the mental load is to figure out what’s exactly on the list. How do you do that? \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I have this new website where if you want to actually measure your mental load, you can take a \u003ca href=\"https://www.lightenlab.com/assessment\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cu>free assessment \u003c/u>\u003c/a>and see what you’re carrying.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Your book also offers a tool called the \u003c/strong>\u003ca href=\"https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/762972/drained-by-leah-ruppanner-phd/#:~:text=%E2%80%A2%20Life%20organization,in%20the%20future\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cstrong>\u003cu>Mental Load Audit\u003c/u>\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>. \u003cstrong>The idea is to sort the tasks in your head into eight categories so you can see where your energy is going. Can you tell us about some of those buckets? \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The first one is life organization. This is staying on top of the planning and the tasks. The second one is emotional support. This is checking in on family, friends and coworkers to make sure they’re doing OK. Another is individual upkeep, like, did I make that doctor’s appointment? Do I need to get my hair cut?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>You can find all eight categories in your book, \u003c/strong>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiyQcB4R5O8\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cstrong>\u003cu>and also online\u003c/u>\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003cstrong>. Once you’ve categorized your mental load, what do you do next? \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Start thinking about whether these things are drains [to your energy] or credits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Every day you wake up with a certain amount of capacity, and every day you spend it. You cannot, every day, pull your mental load into deficit. You need to have some energy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, for some that will be about reducing some of the mental load. But for others, that will be about figuring out the things that bring you joy, that are replenishing. Then start thinking about how you align your mental spending that way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>How do we prioritize the tasks that matter most? \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Get clear on who’s on your starting lineup. One of the mothers [I interviewed] said, “I’m weighing the requests from my book club, the Parent-Teacher Association and my parents. I can’t say no to any of them.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But if you have a moment to go, “Who’s really critical right now?” It becomes easier to say no. Then you can filter what decisions are worth the investment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>You share another way to lighten your mental load: outsource some of your responsibilities. This tends to cost money — for example, hiring a house cleaner or child care. Are there other ways to offload our tasks without breaking the bank? \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Can technology do it? Maybe artificial intelligence can do the meal planning. Or there are apps that can read your emails and put [events] into a shared calendar.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One of the other things I talk about in the book is getting a “good is good enough” mentality, and starting to think about when our standards are too high.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Like, if you are worried about the way the forks go in the dishwasher, part of your mental load is being spent monitoring that. Sometimes it’s worth it, sometimes it’s not.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>So what is the ultimate goal here, once you’ve succeeded in lightening the load? \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To say: I have enough mental load energy to figure out where I’m going, and I can create new, interesting worlds, or lives that I love to live, where I’m thriving, where I’m happy, where I’m passionate, where I’m excited, and not waking up depleted or burnt.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cem>Take the \u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003ca href=\"https://www.lightenlab.com/assessment\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cstrong>\u003cem>\u003cu>Mental Load Measurement\u003c/u>\u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003cstrong>\u003cem>, a short quiz developed by Ruppanner, to measure where your mental load is heaviest — and get suggestions on how to lighten it. \u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003chr>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>The digital story was edited by Malaka Gharib. The visual editor is CJ Riculan. We’d love to hear from you. Leave us a voicemail at 202-216-9823, or email us at LifeKit@npr.org.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Listen to Life Kit on \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"http://n.pr/3LdRb0X\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cem>Apple Podcasts\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem> and \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"http://n.pr/3K3xVln\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cem>Spotify\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>, and sign up for our \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"http://n.pr/3xN1tB9\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cem>newsletter\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>. Follow us on Instagram: \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/nprlifekit\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cem>@nprlifekit\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"excerpt": "\"Men can't see the mess.\" \"Women are better at chores.\" These myths position women to take on more emotional thinking, says researcher Leah Ruppanner. She shares what works to reclaim your headspace.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Remember to pick up paper towels on your way home from work! Oh, summer camp sign ups are at 6. Ooh, should you include your boss in that upcoming meeting this week?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>How do you lighten your mental load — those seemingly never-ending tasks you’re constantly keeping track of in your brain?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s a question that sociologist Leah Ruppanner explores in her new book, \u003ca href=\"https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/762972/drained-by-leah-ruppanner-phd/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cem>\u003cu>Drained: Reduce Your Mental Load to Do Less and Be More\u003c/u>\u003c/em>\u003c/a>, which comes out today. It offers evidence-based tools to reduce what she calls “emotional thinking work,” so we can use that energy in a more meaningful way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ruppanner, a professor at The University of Melbourne in Australia who has spent decades studying gender, work and family, has found that just being able to acknowledge and measure the mental load can slim it down. “Once we see it, we can’t unsee it. We can start to address it,” she says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While everyone has a mental load to some extent — women carry the greatest burden, she says. In \u003ca href=\"https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jomf.13057\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cu>one study of survey data\u003c/u>\u003c/a> with over 3,000 parents in the United States, she and other researchers found that women were responsible for over 70% of the domestic mental load, including keeping track of everyone’s schedules or remembering to delegate tasks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a conversation with Life Kit, Ruppanner unpacks some of the assumptions that keep a woman’s mental load heavy, and what it takes to reclaim your headspace. This interview has been edited for length and clarity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://npr.brightspotcdn.com/dims3/default/strip/false/crop/1900x1069+0+0/resize/1200/quality/75/format/jpeg/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnpr-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F5a%2Fd4%2F8a13595443ebaf2d8e2dc985ff43%2F260420-lk-drained-16x9.jpg\" alt=\"Drained: Reduce Your Mental Load to Do Less and Be More, is written by sociologist and researcher Leah Ruppanner.\">\u003cfigcaption>\u003cem>Drained: Reduce Your Mental Load to Do Less and Be More\u003c/em>, is written by sociologist and researcher Leah Ruppanner. \u003ccite> (Headshot courtesy of the author, Collage by NPR)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Let’s start with mental load and gender. What are some of the pervasive cultural myths that you wish would go away? \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One of the biggest lies we sell each other is that women are better multitaskers than men, that their brains are just more efficient at keeping track of all these competing things.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.apa.org/topics/research/multitasking\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cu>The research doesn’t show that\u003c/u>\u003c/a>. What it shows is that \u003cem>none\u003c/em> of us can multitask. What multitaskers are good at doing is task switching, which burns through some of your cognitive capacity and drains some of your energy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Another myth we tell each other is that women are really good household managers and men are terrible at this. But \u003ca href=\"https://www.un.org/esa/socdev/family/docs/egm16/BehsonRobbins.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cu>[research has shown]\u003c/u>\u003c/a> that men who engage in the primary care of children and take care of the household, they’re healthier, they’re happier, they’re more balanced.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some of these social norms just position [women] to take on the work. Then we set each other up to reinforce these gender roles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>You \u003c/strong>\u003ca href=\"https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0049124119852395\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cstrong>\u003cu>ran a study\u003c/u>\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003cstrong> testing the stereotype that “men can’t see the mess.” \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With colleagues at University of California, Santa Barbara, and New York University, we showed [male and female participants] a messy room and a clean room. And we asked them: Can you rate the messiness of this room?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We found that men and women rate it as equally clean and equally messy. So this idea that “men can’t see the mess or dirt” is nonsense. Let’s stop saying that to each other and believing it. Men can see the socks on the floor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>You say that one of the most effective ways to lighten the mental load is to figure out what’s exactly on the list. How do you do that? \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I have this new website where if you want to actually measure your mental load, you can take a \u003ca href=\"https://www.lightenlab.com/assessment\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cu>free assessment \u003c/u>\u003c/a>and see what you’re carrying.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Your book also offers a tool called the \u003c/strong>\u003ca href=\"https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/762972/drained-by-leah-ruppanner-phd/#:~:text=%E2%80%A2%20Life%20organization,in%20the%20future\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cstrong>\u003cu>Mental Load Audit\u003c/u>\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>. \u003cstrong>The idea is to sort the tasks in your head into eight categories so you can see where your energy is going. Can you tell us about some of those buckets? \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The first one is life organization. This is staying on top of the planning and the tasks. The second one is emotional support. This is checking in on family, friends and coworkers to make sure they’re doing OK. Another is individual upkeep, like, did I make that doctor’s appointment? Do I need to get my hair cut?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>You can find all eight categories in your book, \u003c/strong>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiyQcB4R5O8\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cstrong>\u003cu>and also online\u003c/u>\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003cstrong>. Once you’ve categorized your mental load, what do you do next? \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Start thinking about whether these things are drains [to your energy] or credits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Every day you wake up with a certain amount of capacity, and every day you spend it. You cannot, every day, pull your mental load into deficit. You need to have some energy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, for some that will be about reducing some of the mental load. But for others, that will be about figuring out the things that bring you joy, that are replenishing. Then start thinking about how you align your mental spending that way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>How do we prioritize the tasks that matter most? \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Get clear on who’s on your starting lineup. One of the mothers [I interviewed] said, “I’m weighing the requests from my book club, the Parent-Teacher Association and my parents. I can’t say no to any of them.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But if you have a moment to go, “Who’s really critical right now?” It becomes easier to say no. Then you can filter what decisions are worth the investment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>You share another way to lighten your mental load: outsource some of your responsibilities. This tends to cost money — for example, hiring a house cleaner or child care. Are there other ways to offload our tasks without breaking the bank? \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Can technology do it? Maybe artificial intelligence can do the meal planning. Or there are apps that can read your emails and put [events] into a shared calendar.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One of the other things I talk about in the book is getting a “good is good enough” mentality, and starting to think about when our standards are too high.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Like, if you are worried about the way the forks go in the dishwasher, part of your mental load is being spent monitoring that. Sometimes it’s worth it, sometimes it’s not.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>So what is the ultimate goal here, once you’ve succeeded in lightening the load? \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To say: I have enough mental load energy to figure out where I’m going, and I can create new, interesting worlds, or lives that I love to live, where I’m thriving, where I’m happy, where I’m passionate, where I’m excited, and not waking up depleted or burnt.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cem>Take the \u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003ca href=\"https://www.lightenlab.com/assessment\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cstrong>\u003cem>\u003cu>Mental Load Measurement\u003c/u>\u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003cstrong>\u003cem>, a short quiz developed by Ruppanner, to measure where your mental load is heaviest — and get suggestions on how to lighten it. \u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003chr>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>The digital story was edited by Malaka Gharib. The visual editor is CJ Riculan. We’d love to hear from you. Leave us a voicemail at 202-216-9823, or email us at LifeKit@npr.org.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Listen to Life Kit on \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"http://n.pr/3LdRb0X\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cem>Apple Podcasts\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem> and \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"http://n.pr/3K3xVln\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cem>Spotify\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>, and sign up for our \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"http://n.pr/3xN1tB9\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cem>newsletter\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>. Follow us on Instagram: \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/nprlifekit\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cem>@nprlifekit\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "how-a-scotus-decision-on-birthright-citizenship-could-impact-education-access",
"title": "How a SCOTUS Decision on Birthright Citizenship Could Impact Education Access",
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"content": "\u003cp>Any child born on U.S. soil has a right to citizenship. It was established by the 14th Amendment in 1868, and affirmed by the U.S. Supreme court 128 years ago. On Wednesday, the high court is set to hear oral arguments in a case that could narrow or even end birthright citizenship in \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/12/05/nx-s1-5619186/supreme-court-agrees-to-hear-arguments-in-birthright-citizenship-case\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cem>Trump v. Barbara\u003c/em>\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Trump administration \u003ca href=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/protecting-the-meaning-and-value-of-american-citizenship/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">has argued \u003c/a>the “privilege” has been too freely applied to children of non-citizens. “Hundreds of thousands of people are pouring into our country under birthright citizenship, and it wasn’t meant for that reason,” President Trump \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJKrzgTiXc4\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">said last year\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If this constitutionally protected right is struck down by the court, it would apply to children born on or after Feb. 20, 2025. \u003ca href=\"https://www.migrationpolicy.org/news/birthright-citizenship-repeal-projections\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">According to a projection\u003c/a> by the nonpartisan Migration Policy Institute and Penn State, that could result in about 255,000 U.S.-born children beginning life without U.S. citizenship every year. By 2045, that could add up to 4.8 million children.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Birthright citizenship is fundamental for child wellbeing,” says Wendy Cervantes of The Center for Law and Social Policy, a nonpartisan organization focused on helping people with low incomes. “It has helped ensure that all children in the U.S. can start off life with some sort of equal footing and opportunity.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Much of that equal footing comes courtesy of the country’s K-12 public schools. While schools are a place for children to learn, they’re also a central access point for a range of services: free meals, mental health support, services for students with disabilities and much more. Without the right to citizenship, access to those services could be complicated for many children – as could access to college.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here’s what to know about how a Supreme Court ruling to end or narrow birthright citizenship could change the education landscape.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Public schools can’t turn students away because of their immigration status\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>All children, regardless of immigration status, have the right to a free K-12 public education in the United States. That right was affirmed in the landmark 1982 Supreme Court ruling \u003cem>Plyler v. Doe\u003c/em>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The case centered on whether Texas could prohibit the use of state funding to educate children who were living in the U.S. unlawfully. Also in question was whether a public school district could charge foreign-born students tuition to enroll. Immigrant students sued and prevailed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In \u003cem>Plyler\u003c/em> , Cervantes says, “It was recognized by the justices that denying a K-12 education to children, a basic education, would create a permanent underclass in our society.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Because of this decision, school districts are not supposed to collect immigration data on their students or their families. But immigrant advocates worry that \u003cem>Plyler\u003c/em> has become a political target.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The conservative movement has made very clear their intention to overturn\u003cem> Plyler v. Doe \u003c/em>by even providing a playbook to state legislatures to help make that happen,” says Alejandra Vázquez Baur, co-founder and director of the National Newcomer Network, which advocates for recently arrived immigrant students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Heritage Foundation, the conservative think tank behind Project 2025, which has shaped much of the Trump administration’s agenda, \u003ca href=\"https://www.heritage.org/border-security/report/every-state-should-challenge-plyler-v-doe-time-end-free-education-illegal-0\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">recently called for\u003c/a> states to restrict public education for undocumented students and has\u003ca href=\"https://www.heritage.org/education/report/the-consequences-unchecked-illegal-immigration-americas-public-schools\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"> recommended that states directly challenge\u003c/a> the \u003cem>Plyler\u003c/em> decision, arguing that it cost states hundreds of millions of dollars in education spending in 2023 alone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“States have a convincing interest in preserving limited taxpayer dollars by prioritizing U.S. citizens and lawful immigrants,” \u003ca href=\"https://www.heritage.org/border-security/report/every-state-should-challenge-plyler-v-doe-time-end-free-education-illegal-0\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">wrote\u003c/a> Lora Ries of Heritage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Tennessee lawmakers are among those taking action: There are currently bills moving through the state legislature that propose tracking K-12 students’ legal status and allowing public schools to refuse to enroll undocumented students. Several other states have also proposed legislation that directly, or indirectly, threaten \u003cem>Plyler\u003c/em>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If any of these proposals turn into laws, they could invite legal challenges, and ultimately re-open the question of whether immigrant children have the right to a public education.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>A right to education doesn’t mean families feel safe sending their kids to school\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Immigration enforcement efforts can take a toll on \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/02/04/nx-s1-5277170/schools-ice-immigration\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">school attendance\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MPR News reported that after heightened federal immigration presence in Minnesota early this year, \u003ca href=\"https://www.mprnews.org/story/2026/01/23/how-schools-and-students-are-affected-by-ice-enforcement\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">some districts\u003c/a> experienced a 20-40% increase in absences. And that trend predates the Trump administration: Researchers at the Hoover Institution, a conservative think tank based at Stanford University, found that after immigration raids in January 2025, school districts in California’s Central Valley \u003ca href=\"https://www.hoover.org/news/immigration-raids-central-california-increased-student-absences-months-study\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">had a 22% increase in absences\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Vázquez Baur says these findings show immigrant children’s constitutional right to attend K-12 public schools is \u003cem>already \u003c/em>under threat.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The law is still the law, children can still go to school. Now, we know that that is being complicated at this moment by immigration enforcement around schools,” she says. “The birthright citizenship issue complicates that even further.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sophia Rodriguez, a professor of education policy at New York University, has been studying the impact of immigration enforcement on school attendance. She says she has heard reports of “constant fear, anxiety and stress” from immigrant families concerned about sending their children to school. “And when you add this potential end to birthright citizenship, you create larger numbers of communities who are living in fear and anxiety,” she says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some studies have shown that, historically, when there is a rise in local immigration enforcement, \u003ca href=\"https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/23328584211056349\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">fewer Hispanic students\u003c/a> \u003ca href=\"https://siepr.stanford.edu/publications/policy-brief/how-strict-immigration-enforcement-harms-schoolchildren\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">enroll in nearby schools\u003c/a>, which can disrupt their education and affect school funding. In most states, public school districts receive funding based on daily student attendance and overall enrollment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This comes as \u003ca href=\"https://www.brookings.edu/articles/declining-public-school-enrollment/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">many school districts\u003c/a> are \u003ca href=\"https://www.edweek.org/leadership/where-school-enrollment-is-declining-the-most-what-new-research-shows/2025/11\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">already facing enrollment declines\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Students with disabilities could fall through the cracks\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>For many children, schools are the first point of contact with public services such as nutrition programs, healthcare, language learning and counseling. That is especially the case for immigrant families, says Rodriguez of NYU. “[Schools] are often the one social institution or public institution that immigrant families access.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-embed npr-promo-card insettwocolumn\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\u003c/div>\n\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>They are also often the first place children’s disabilities are identified, and where those students can tap into the services they need to be successful. The \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/04/03/nx-s1-5338953/trump-layoffs-education-department-special-education\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA)\u003c/a> is the central special education law that guarantees \u003cem>all \u003c/em>disabled children the right to a “Free Appropriate Public Education.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“So those are things that aren’t going away or changing based on immigration status,” says Anne Dwyer, a professor at Georgetown University’s Center for Children and Families. “But if a community is experiencing immigration enforcement or fear of enforcement at such a level that parents don’t even feel comfortable bringing their children to school, then those children are automatically not going to be able to access those very supports that schools provide.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Schools also rely on state and federal Medicaid dollars to pay for services like physical, speech and occupational therapy. The program covers about half of all students with special education plans \u003ca href=\"https://www.kff.org/medicaid/5-key-facts-about-children-with-special-health-care-needs-and-medicaid/#Appendix\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">according to an analysis by KFF\u003c/a>, a nonpartisan health policy research organization. Medicaid funding also \u003ca href=\"https://learningpolicyinstitute.org/blog/medicaid-more-health-insurance-its-lifeline-public-schools\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">makes up a significant portion\u003c/a> of public school budgets: The U.S. Education Department \u003ca href=\"https://www.ed.gov/sites/ed/files/about/offices/list/osers/docs/medicaid-funding-for-school-based-services-03-08-2024.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">reported in 2024 \u003c/a>that Medicaid sends schools between $4 billion and $6 billion annually.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Even if a school can’t potentially provide a type of service, they’re probably going to be a broker to those resources,” says Rodriguez.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, Medicaid is typically limited to U.S. citizens and people with other qualifying legal statuses. If birthright citizenship is eliminated, U.S.-born children who would have previously been citizens may no longer qualify for Medicaid. For any of those children who have disabilities, schools would still be legally obligated to serve them under IDEA, but they would have to find a way to replace the lost Medicaid funding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That would create potential, huge cost shifts to districts,” says Dwyer. “And we know school districts are already incredibly strapped.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Paying for higher education would get a lot harder\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>While the law currently provides a K-12 education for all students, the same is not true of higher education. Students without legal status can still enroll in college, but they don’t have access to federal financial aid, such as federal student loans and the Pell Grant, which helps low-income students and is \u003ca href=\"https://www.crfb.org/blogs/pell-grant-program-faces-serious-and-immediate-shortfall\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">currently facing a funding shortfall\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And because of their status, undocumented students are also more likely to come from impoverished backgrounds, says Caitlin Patler, a professor of public policy at UC Berkeley. “Those two things together make affording higher education almost impossible for children who are undocumented.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In some states, including Georgia and Alabama, undocumented students are not allowed to attend certain public colleges; other states charge them out-of-state tuition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Patler says research shows U.S. citizenship is directly tied to opportunities that increase a child’s educational attainment. “And therefore much later on, as you follow children throughout their lives, educational attainment is directly correlated with stronger economic contributions.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She worries about a future in which birthright citizenship is narrowed or eliminated. “This would have a cascading ripple effect, potentially through multiple generations, of forcing this large and growing group of millions of children into a caste-like status.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A caste-like status, she says, in which their opportunities would be dictated not by their potential, but by their immigration status.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Edited by: \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/people/348780034/nicole-cohen\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cem>Nicole Cohen\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003cem>Visual design and development by: \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/people/348775569/la-johnson\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cem>LA Johnson\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"npr-transcript\">\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Transcript:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>DON GONYEA, HOST:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Any child born on U.S. soil has a right to citizenship – so far. The Trump administration wants to do away with that constitutional right. The Supreme Court will hear arguments why on Wednesday. According to the Migration Policy Institute, if it’s repealed, 4.8 million U.S.-born children would begin life without U.S. citizenship over the next two decades. NPR’s Jonaki Mehta joins us now to talk about what that could mean for access to education. Good morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>JONAKI MEHTA, BYLINE: Hey, Don.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>GONYEA: Let’s start with K-12 public education. Who gets to go to school in this country, and how could this decision change that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MEHTA: Yeah. You know, that is a great place to start because the Supreme Court actually tackled this question in 1982 in a case called Plyler v. Doe. And the primary question before the court was whether the state of Texas could deny undocumented children access to free public education. And that decision affirmed one of the most foundational rights for children in this country, and that is the right to a free public education, regardless of immigration status. Here’s Wendy Cervantes from the nonpartisan Center for Law and Social Policy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>WENDY CERVANTES: In that decision, it was recognized by the justices that denying a K-12 education to children would basically create a permanent underclass.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MEHTA: And, you know, Don, not everybody agrees with the precedent that Plyler set. The Heritage Foundation, which is the conservative think tank behind Project 2025 – that’s the Trump administration’s policy playbook – they’ve argued that it costs a lot of money to educate undocumented students. The Heritage Foundation has called for states to directly challenge the Plyler decision, and some states are doing just that, like Tennessee, where legislators have proposed allowing public schools to track students’ legal status and turn away undocumented students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>GONYEA: So there are legislative threats to Plyler brewing, and then there’s the heightened threat of deportation for these children. How is that impacting access to schools?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MEHTA: Yeah. That’s exactly right. I spoke to a few immigrant rights advocates, and all of them reminded me, yes, Plyler exists, and schools are supposed to be safe havens for all children. But the way that immigrant families have actually been feeling doesn’t necessarily align with their rights. Here’s Alejandra Vazquez Baur of the National Newcomer Network, which advocates for recently arrived immigrant students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>ALEJANDRA VAZQUEZ BAUR: Significant attendance gaps in big and small districts across the country after an immigration raid are clearly impacting not just undocumented children, but lots of children who have citizenship and yet still feel that it is not safe enough for them to leave their homes and go to school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MEHTA: And, you know, it’s important to remember that schools aren’t just a place for kids to get an education. It’s also where students often first encounter lots of different public services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>GONYEA: And what kind of services are we talking about?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MEHTA: Yeah. So for many students, school is the very first place they might encounter things like basic health care, like a school nurse, mental health resources, like counselors. It’s a place to get free meals, and the public school system provides lots of services for students with disabilities. Now, all students with disabilities are covered by federal special education law, but here’s where it gets a little bit complicated. So a lot of the funding for disability services, things like speech therapy, occupational therapy, those things are often paid for by Medicaid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Medicaid sends billions of dollars every year to schools, but students typically need legal status to benefit from that program. So if birthright citizenship were to be eliminated, we could be looking at a new class of students in the coming decades who would not qualify for Medicaid. But here’s the thing – schools are still obligated to serve those students with or without that Medicaid funding. So the elimination of birthright citizenship could put a bigger financial burden on schools which are already spread thin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>GONYEA: OK. That covers K-12 public education. Would higher education be affected if birthright citizenship were to go away?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MEHTA: Yeah. So the main way is that losing citizenship makes it much harder to get help paying for college. That’s because without legal status, students aren’t eligible for federal financial aid or even some state financial aid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>CAITLIN PATLER: And because of their status, they’re also more likely to come from families living in poverty. So those two things together make affording higher education almost impossible for children who are undocumented.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MEHTA: That’s Caitlin Patler. She’s a professor of public policy at UC Berkeley, and she pointed out that U.S. citizenship is directly tied to educational attainment and ultimately what someone contributes to the economy. So she thinks ending birthright citizenship would be a loss not just for these potential future children we’re talking about, but for the country at large.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>GONYEA: That’s NPR education correspondent Jonaki Mehta. Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MEHTA: Thanks, Don.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Any child born on U.S. soil has a right to citizenship. It was established by the 14th Amendment in 1868, and affirmed by the U.S. Supreme court 128 years ago. On Wednesday, the high court is set to hear oral arguments in a case that could narrow or even end birthright citizenship in \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/12/05/nx-s1-5619186/supreme-court-agrees-to-hear-arguments-in-birthright-citizenship-case\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cem>Trump v. Barbara\u003c/em>\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Trump administration \u003ca href=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/protecting-the-meaning-and-value-of-american-citizenship/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">has argued \u003c/a>the “privilege” has been too freely applied to children of non-citizens. “Hundreds of thousands of people are pouring into our country under birthright citizenship, and it wasn’t meant for that reason,” President Trump \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJKrzgTiXc4\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">said last year\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If this constitutionally protected right is struck down by the court, it would apply to children born on or after Feb. 20, 2025. \u003ca href=\"https://www.migrationpolicy.org/news/birthright-citizenship-repeal-projections\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">According to a projection\u003c/a> by the nonpartisan Migration Policy Institute and Penn State, that could result in about 255,000 U.S.-born children beginning life without U.S. citizenship every year. By 2045, that could add up to 4.8 million children.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Birthright citizenship is fundamental for child wellbeing,” says Wendy Cervantes of The Center for Law and Social Policy, a nonpartisan organization focused on helping people with low incomes. “It has helped ensure that all children in the U.S. can start off life with some sort of equal footing and opportunity.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Much of that equal footing comes courtesy of the country’s K-12 public schools. While schools are a place for children to learn, they’re also a central access point for a range of services: free meals, mental health support, services for students with disabilities and much more. Without the right to citizenship, access to those services could be complicated for many children – as could access to college.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here’s what to know about how a Supreme Court ruling to end or narrow birthright citizenship could change the education landscape.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Public schools can’t turn students away because of their immigration status\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>All children, regardless of immigration status, have the right to a free K-12 public education in the United States. That right was affirmed in the landmark 1982 Supreme Court ruling \u003cem>Plyler v. Doe\u003c/em>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The case centered on whether Texas could prohibit the use of state funding to educate children who were living in the U.S. unlawfully. Also in question was whether a public school district could charge foreign-born students tuition to enroll. Immigrant students sued and prevailed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In \u003cem>Plyler\u003c/em> , Cervantes says, “It was recognized by the justices that denying a K-12 education to children, a basic education, would create a permanent underclass in our society.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Because of this decision, school districts are not supposed to collect immigration data on their students or their families. But immigrant advocates worry that \u003cem>Plyler\u003c/em> has become a political target.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The conservative movement has made very clear their intention to overturn\u003cem> Plyler v. Doe \u003c/em>by even providing a playbook to state legislatures to help make that happen,” says Alejandra Vázquez Baur, co-founder and director of the National Newcomer Network, which advocates for recently arrived immigrant students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Heritage Foundation, the conservative think tank behind Project 2025, which has shaped much of the Trump administration’s agenda, \u003ca href=\"https://www.heritage.org/border-security/report/every-state-should-challenge-plyler-v-doe-time-end-free-education-illegal-0\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">recently called for\u003c/a> states to restrict public education for undocumented students and has\u003ca href=\"https://www.heritage.org/education/report/the-consequences-unchecked-illegal-immigration-americas-public-schools\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"> recommended that states directly challenge\u003c/a> the \u003cem>Plyler\u003c/em> decision, arguing that it cost states hundreds of millions of dollars in education spending in 2023 alone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“States have a convincing interest in preserving limited taxpayer dollars by prioritizing U.S. citizens and lawful immigrants,” \u003ca href=\"https://www.heritage.org/border-security/report/every-state-should-challenge-plyler-v-doe-time-end-free-education-illegal-0\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">wrote\u003c/a> Lora Ries of Heritage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Tennessee lawmakers are among those taking action: There are currently bills moving through the state legislature that propose tracking K-12 students’ legal status and allowing public schools to refuse to enroll undocumented students. Several other states have also proposed legislation that directly, or indirectly, threaten \u003cem>Plyler\u003c/em>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If any of these proposals turn into laws, they could invite legal challenges, and ultimately re-open the question of whether immigrant children have the right to a public education.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>A right to education doesn’t mean families feel safe sending their kids to school\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Immigration enforcement efforts can take a toll on \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/02/04/nx-s1-5277170/schools-ice-immigration\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">school attendance\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MPR News reported that after heightened federal immigration presence in Minnesota early this year, \u003ca href=\"https://www.mprnews.org/story/2026/01/23/how-schools-and-students-are-affected-by-ice-enforcement\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">some districts\u003c/a> experienced a 20-40% increase in absences. And that trend predates the Trump administration: Researchers at the Hoover Institution, a conservative think tank based at Stanford University, found that after immigration raids in January 2025, school districts in California’s Central Valley \u003ca href=\"https://www.hoover.org/news/immigration-raids-central-california-increased-student-absences-months-study\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">had a 22% increase in absences\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Vázquez Baur says these findings show immigrant children’s constitutional right to attend K-12 public schools is \u003cem>already \u003c/em>under threat.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The law is still the law, children can still go to school. Now, we know that that is being complicated at this moment by immigration enforcement around schools,” she says. “The birthright citizenship issue complicates that even further.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sophia Rodriguez, a professor of education policy at New York University, has been studying the impact of immigration enforcement on school attendance. She says she has heard reports of “constant fear, anxiety and stress” from immigrant families concerned about sending their children to school. “And when you add this potential end to birthright citizenship, you create larger numbers of communities who are living in fear and anxiety,” she says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some studies have shown that, historically, when there is a rise in local immigration enforcement, \u003ca href=\"https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/23328584211056349\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">fewer Hispanic students\u003c/a> \u003ca href=\"https://siepr.stanford.edu/publications/policy-brief/how-strict-immigration-enforcement-harms-schoolchildren\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">enroll in nearby schools\u003c/a>, which can disrupt their education and affect school funding. In most states, public school districts receive funding based on daily student attendance and overall enrollment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This comes as \u003ca href=\"https://www.brookings.edu/articles/declining-public-school-enrollment/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">many school districts\u003c/a> are \u003ca href=\"https://www.edweek.org/leadership/where-school-enrollment-is-declining-the-most-what-new-research-shows/2025/11\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">already facing enrollment declines\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Students with disabilities could fall through the cracks\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>For many children, schools are the first point of contact with public services such as nutrition programs, healthcare, language learning and counseling. That is especially the case for immigrant families, says Rodriguez of NYU. “[Schools] are often the one social institution or public institution that immigrant families access.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-embed npr-promo-card insettwocolumn\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\u003c/div>\n\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>They are also often the first place children’s disabilities are identified, and where those students can tap into the services they need to be successful. The \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/04/03/nx-s1-5338953/trump-layoffs-education-department-special-education\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA)\u003c/a> is the central special education law that guarantees \u003cem>all \u003c/em>disabled children the right to a “Free Appropriate Public Education.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“So those are things that aren’t going away or changing based on immigration status,” says Anne Dwyer, a professor at Georgetown University’s Center for Children and Families. “But if a community is experiencing immigration enforcement or fear of enforcement at such a level that parents don’t even feel comfortable bringing their children to school, then those children are automatically not going to be able to access those very supports that schools provide.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Schools also rely on state and federal Medicaid dollars to pay for services like physical, speech and occupational therapy. The program covers about half of all students with special education plans \u003ca href=\"https://www.kff.org/medicaid/5-key-facts-about-children-with-special-health-care-needs-and-medicaid/#Appendix\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">according to an analysis by KFF\u003c/a>, a nonpartisan health policy research organization. Medicaid funding also \u003ca href=\"https://learningpolicyinstitute.org/blog/medicaid-more-health-insurance-its-lifeline-public-schools\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">makes up a significant portion\u003c/a> of public school budgets: The U.S. Education Department \u003ca href=\"https://www.ed.gov/sites/ed/files/about/offices/list/osers/docs/medicaid-funding-for-school-based-services-03-08-2024.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">reported in 2024 \u003c/a>that Medicaid sends schools between $4 billion and $6 billion annually.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Even if a school can’t potentially provide a type of service, they’re probably going to be a broker to those resources,” says Rodriguez.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, Medicaid is typically limited to U.S. citizens and people with other qualifying legal statuses. If birthright citizenship is eliminated, U.S.-born children who would have previously been citizens may no longer qualify for Medicaid. For any of those children who have disabilities, schools would still be legally obligated to serve them under IDEA, but they would have to find a way to replace the lost Medicaid funding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That would create potential, huge cost shifts to districts,” says Dwyer. “And we know school districts are already incredibly strapped.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Paying for higher education would get a lot harder\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>While the law currently provides a K-12 education for all students, the same is not true of higher education. Students without legal status can still enroll in college, but they don’t have access to federal financial aid, such as federal student loans and the Pell Grant, which helps low-income students and is \u003ca href=\"https://www.crfb.org/blogs/pell-grant-program-faces-serious-and-immediate-shortfall\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">currently facing a funding shortfall\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And because of their status, undocumented students are also more likely to come from impoverished backgrounds, says Caitlin Patler, a professor of public policy at UC Berkeley. “Those two things together make affording higher education almost impossible for children who are undocumented.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In some states, including Georgia and Alabama, undocumented students are not allowed to attend certain public colleges; other states charge them out-of-state tuition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Patler says research shows U.S. citizenship is directly tied to opportunities that increase a child’s educational attainment. “And therefore much later on, as you follow children throughout their lives, educational attainment is directly correlated with stronger economic contributions.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She worries about a future in which birthright citizenship is narrowed or eliminated. “This would have a cascading ripple effect, potentially through multiple generations, of forcing this large and growing group of millions of children into a caste-like status.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A caste-like status, she says, in which their opportunities would be dictated not by their potential, but by their immigration status.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Edited by: \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/people/348780034/nicole-cohen\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cem>Nicole Cohen\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\n\u003cem>Visual design and development by: \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/people/348775569/la-johnson\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cem>LA Johnson\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"npr-transcript\">\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Transcript:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>DON GONYEA, HOST:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Any child born on U.S. soil has a right to citizenship – so far. The Trump administration wants to do away with that constitutional right. The Supreme Court will hear arguments why on Wednesday. According to the Migration Policy Institute, if it’s repealed, 4.8 million U.S.-born children would begin life without U.S. citizenship over the next two decades. NPR’s Jonaki Mehta joins us now to talk about what that could mean for access to education. Good morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>JONAKI MEHTA, BYLINE: Hey, Don.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>GONYEA: Let’s start with K-12 public education. Who gets to go to school in this country, and how could this decision change that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MEHTA: Yeah. You know, that is a great place to start because the Supreme Court actually tackled this question in 1982 in a case called Plyler v. Doe. And the primary question before the court was whether the state of Texas could deny undocumented children access to free public education. And that decision affirmed one of the most foundational rights for children in this country, and that is the right to a free public education, regardless of immigration status. Here’s Wendy Cervantes from the nonpartisan Center for Law and Social Policy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>WENDY CERVANTES: In that decision, it was recognized by the justices that denying a K-12 education to children would basically create a permanent underclass.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MEHTA: And, you know, Don, not everybody agrees with the precedent that Plyler set. The Heritage Foundation, which is the conservative think tank behind Project 2025 – that’s the Trump administration’s policy playbook – they’ve argued that it costs a lot of money to educate undocumented students. The Heritage Foundation has called for states to directly challenge the Plyler decision, and some states are doing just that, like Tennessee, where legislators have proposed allowing public schools to track students’ legal status and turn away undocumented students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>GONYEA: So there are legislative threats to Plyler brewing, and then there’s the heightened threat of deportation for these children. How is that impacting access to schools?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MEHTA: Yeah. That’s exactly right. I spoke to a few immigrant rights advocates, and all of them reminded me, yes, Plyler exists, and schools are supposed to be safe havens for all children. But the way that immigrant families have actually been feeling doesn’t necessarily align with their rights. Here’s Alejandra Vazquez Baur of the National Newcomer Network, which advocates for recently arrived immigrant students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>ALEJANDRA VAZQUEZ BAUR: Significant attendance gaps in big and small districts across the country after an immigration raid are clearly impacting not just undocumented children, but lots of children who have citizenship and yet still feel that it is not safe enough for them to leave their homes and go to school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MEHTA: And, you know, it’s important to remember that schools aren’t just a place for kids to get an education. It’s also where students often first encounter lots of different public services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>GONYEA: And what kind of services are we talking about?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MEHTA: Yeah. So for many students, school is the very first place they might encounter things like basic health care, like a school nurse, mental health resources, like counselors. It’s a place to get free meals, and the public school system provides lots of services for students with disabilities. Now, all students with disabilities are covered by federal special education law, but here’s where it gets a little bit complicated. So a lot of the funding for disability services, things like speech therapy, occupational therapy, those things are often paid for by Medicaid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Medicaid sends billions of dollars every year to schools, but students typically need legal status to benefit from that program. So if birthright citizenship were to be eliminated, we could be looking at a new class of students in the coming decades who would not qualify for Medicaid. But here’s the thing – schools are still obligated to serve those students with or without that Medicaid funding. So the elimination of birthright citizenship could put a bigger financial burden on schools which are already spread thin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>GONYEA: OK. That covers K-12 public education. Would higher education be affected if birthright citizenship were to go away?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MEHTA: Yeah. So the main way is that losing citizenship makes it much harder to get help paying for college. That’s because without legal status, students aren’t eligible for federal financial aid or even some state financial aid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>CAITLIN PATLER: And because of their status, they’re also more likely to come from families living in poverty. So those two things together make affording higher education almost impossible for children who are undocumented.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MEHTA: That’s Caitlin Patler. She’s a professor of public policy at UC Berkeley, and she pointed out that U.S. citizenship is directly tied to educational attainment and ultimately what someone contributes to the economy. So she thinks ending birthright citizenship would be a loss not just for these potential future children we’re talking about, but for the country at large.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>GONYEA: That’s NPR education correspondent Jonaki Mehta. Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MEHTA: Thanks, Don.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cem>This story about child care workers was produced by \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://hechingerreport.org/\">The Hechinger Report\u003c/a>\u003cem>, a nonprofit, independent news organization focused on inequality and innovation in education. Sign up for the \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://hechingerreport.org/earlychildhood/\">\u003cem>Hechinger newsletter\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>DENVER — It was nap time at Family Star Montessori, and Sue Alexander, a retired accountant, settled onto the floor beside a little girl named Ophelia. The child leaned against her and announced: “I love squishy things.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alexander’s “squishy thing” — her arm — just earned her a new friend.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alexander is a member of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.earlychildhoodservicecorps.org/\">Early Childhood Service Corps\u003c/a>, which trains adults ages 50 and older to work as substitute teachers in child care centers like this one in Denver and the surrounding suburbs. In addition to helping to staff an industry that chronically lacks workers, ECSC also offers personal fulfillment and community connection for its members in the years after retirement\u003cstrong>, \u003c/strong>participants say.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Training was a lot, but it was really well put together,” Alexander said of the program. “They’ve got good people.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The shortage of child care teachers is a well-known problem, but a lack of qualified substitute teachers doesn’t always get as much attention. Legally, centers are required to maintain a certain number of adults for the children they have in care. Without reliable substitutes, full-time teachers can barely step out of the room for a short break, much less make longer appointments for something like a trip to the doctor. The program also offers volunteer “business advisers” who provide back-office support to centers that need it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The early care and education field is just full of clever people who are trying to find ways to shore up the system in any way possible,” said Elizabeth Pufall Jones, the director of preparation and work environment programs at the Center for the Study of Child Care Employment. Early childhood teachers are often perceived as babysitters whose roles can be easily filled, she said, but that’s not true. With ECSC members, “you know they’re a well-qualified individual to go into these classrooms.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_66208\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-66208\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-3-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Woman standing in room\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-3-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-3-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-3-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-3-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-3-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-3-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Lisa Armao, founder and executive director, Early Childhood Services Corps. \u003ccite>(Sara Hertwig for The Hechinger Report)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Lisa Armao, who has worked in early childhood education for more than 30 years, founded ECSC in 2022, inspired by a documentary called \u003ca href=\"https://thegrowingseasonfilm.com/\">“The Growing Season”\u003c/a> that features a program in Seattle housing a senior center and a daycare center under one roof.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She visited the Seattle program with the intention of trying to start a similar model in Denver. The pandemic upended her plan to create a stand-alone facility, but Armao has been able to raise over $440,000 in state and local funding for the ECSC model of placing older adults in child care centers both as substitute teachers and as office staff.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over the last three years, ECSC has placed about 150 volunteers in Montessori programs and other child care centers around the Denver area. Those who want to work as teachers attend three to four months of online classes offered by Red Rocks Community College. Those who want to work with children but don’t want the extra training take 19 hours of training modules offered by ECSC. Volunteer business advisers take seven hours of free training on early childhood regulations before being placed at a center. Some of the participants in the program are paid, while others provide support to child care centers for free.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_66210\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-66210\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-1-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Older adults playing with preschooler in school\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-1-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-1-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-1-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-1-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-1-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-1-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Kit Karbler and Sunanda Babu both received early childhood training through the Early Childhood Service Corps. \u003ccite>(Sara Hertwig for The Hechinger Report)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Family Star Montessori educates 230 children, ranging from 8 weeks to 6 years old, in its two schools and its home-based learning program. Alexander’s presence in a classroom means teachers can step out to take a phone call or go to the bathroom without worrying about whether there are enough adults in the classroom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We don’t talk about bathroom breaks enough,” Armao said. “If you need to go to the bathroom, there has to be someone to come in to cover you in that space, and that can make for a very uncomfortable working environment. Meeting the needs of the adults helps with morale.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>ECSC has attracted a steady stream of local media attention, which is how most older adults learn about the program, but finding corps members to meet the need remains a challenge. Armao said she has received inquiries about replication from people in California, Ohio, Oregon and Washington state.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Just as Family Star executive director Lindsay McNicholas relies on Alexander to help care for kids, she depends on another ECSC member, Jean Townsend, for administrative support.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_66206\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-66206\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-5-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Older woman next to learning child\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-5-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-5-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-5-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-5-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-5-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-5-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sunanda Babu received early childhood training through programs offered through the Early Childhood Service Corps. \u003ccite>(Sara Hertwig for The Hechinger Report)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Before she retired, Townsend owned a local economics consulting firm and, among other accomplishments, helped to start the Colfax Marathon, an annual race that brings out thousands of runners. She came to Family Star with extensive contacts among business and political leaders as well as a roll-up-your-sleeves attitude.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’ve learned that if you’ve got a problem, you solve it,” Townsend said. She is working with the center as it plans to sell one site and buy another with more modern heating, closer to where most of the families live.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Townsend’s business background has been invaluable, McNicholas said. “I’ve been able to meet officials and city planners in Jefferson County, which is a new county for us. That has given us a jump-start with this really incredible opportunity for our organization.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Armao said the corps members come from a variety of professional backgrounds and have a range of different expectations for the experience. Along the way, they gain insight into a largely invisible profession. “They get a schooling in the state of early childhood and they come to understand it in a deeper way. Some grab onto the fact that it’s an economic driver. Others grab onto the simple fact that these children are going to be humans running our world.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kit Karbler, 72, is a glass artist whose work is displayed at the Denver Art Museum. “If I hadn’t found this, I can’t imagine what I’d be doing,” he said about being a substitute child care worker at an early learning center based at \u003ca href=\"https://elc.emanueldenver.org/\">Temple Emanuel\u003c/a> in Denver. Karbler works 20 hours a week, more if they need him. “What would I be doing that would give me this emotional return?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kamal Fakhouri, 68, worked in education and business all over the Middle East. At Monarch Montessori, a public school with 250 children ages 6 weeks through 5 years, Fakhouri fills in as a substitute teacher.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Born in Lebanon, she lived in the United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Egypt before moving to Denver to be near her daughter and grandchildren. This was during the height of the Covid pandemic. Fakhouri said she especially prizes moments of connection. “I was reading with a child in a class that I haven’t been to in a while, when [a child] just came and hugged me from the back and started telling me about what work they’re doing,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bethanne Rodriguez, executive director of the five-site \u003ca href=\"https://thrivepreschool.com/\">Thrive Preschool\u003c/a> network in the Denver area, which has welcomed corps members, said she appreciates their “older faces and older energy” — as well the example they set for the rest of the staff. “They have had a career and have that life experience to know and understand the investment that this work is,” she said. “They know what it means to show up for work and know what it means to not call out when you’re just having a bad day.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_66207\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-66207\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-4-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Older woman playing with toddlers\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-4-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-4-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-4-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-4-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-4-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-4-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Yvonne Wilder, 57, works with children at Thrive Preschool in Littleton, Colo. \u003ccite>(Sara Hertwig for The Hechinger Report)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>One of the corps members at Thrive’s Littleton location is Yvonne Wilder. After her first week in the baby room, her muscles ached in places she’d forgotten existed. The retired wetlands biologist, who’d spent decades cataloging ecosystems for the city of Tampa, was discovering that an eight-hour shift there demanded a different kind of stamina than fieldwork ever had.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s a very physically challenging job,” said Wilder, 57. “I change diapers all the time. I do everything. I admire all the people who do this full time because it is not easy.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During her first year, Wilder says, she got sick constantly, and her adult children asked her if she really wanted to continue. Soon, though, her immune system caught up, and she discovered that spending time with the children, germs and all, makes her happy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’ve had them ask me, ‘Are you my grandma?’” she said. “And I’ll say, ‘I can be your school grandma.’ It’s such a privilege to know them and to be known by them.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Support for this reporting came from the Better Life Lab at New America.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story about child care workers was produced by \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://hechingerreport.org/\">The Hechinger Report\u003c/a>\u003cem>, a nonprofit, independent news organization focused on inequality and innovation in education. Sign up for the \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://hechingerreport.org/earlychildhood/\">\u003cem>Hechinger newsletter\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>This story about child care workers was produced by \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://hechingerreport.org/\">The Hechinger Report\u003c/a>\u003cem>, a nonprofit, independent news organization focused on inequality and innovation in education. Sign up for the \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://hechingerreport.org/earlychildhood/\">\u003cem>Hechinger newsletter\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>DENVER — It was nap time at Family Star Montessori, and Sue Alexander, a retired accountant, settled onto the floor beside a little girl named Ophelia. The child leaned against her and announced: “I love squishy things.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alexander’s “squishy thing” — her arm — just earned her a new friend.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alexander is a member of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.earlychildhoodservicecorps.org/\">Early Childhood Service Corps\u003c/a>, which trains adults ages 50 and older to work as substitute teachers in child care centers like this one in Denver and the surrounding suburbs. In addition to helping to staff an industry that chronically lacks workers, ECSC also offers personal fulfillment and community connection for its members in the years after retirement\u003cstrong>, \u003c/strong>participants say.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Training was a lot, but it was really well put together,” Alexander said of the program. “They’ve got good people.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The shortage of child care teachers is a well-known problem, but a lack of qualified substitute teachers doesn’t always get as much attention. Legally, centers are required to maintain a certain number of adults for the children they have in care. Without reliable substitutes, full-time teachers can barely step out of the room for a short break, much less make longer appointments for something like a trip to the doctor. The program also offers volunteer “business advisers” who provide back-office support to centers that need it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The early care and education field is just full of clever people who are trying to find ways to shore up the system in any way possible,” said Elizabeth Pufall Jones, the director of preparation and work environment programs at the Center for the Study of Child Care Employment. Early childhood teachers are often perceived as babysitters whose roles can be easily filled, she said, but that’s not true. With ECSC members, “you know they’re a well-qualified individual to go into these classrooms.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_66208\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-66208\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-3-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Woman standing in room\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-3-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-3-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-3-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-3-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-3-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-3-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Lisa Armao, founder and executive director, Early Childhood Services Corps. \u003ccite>(Sara Hertwig for The Hechinger Report)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Lisa Armao, who has worked in early childhood education for more than 30 years, founded ECSC in 2022, inspired by a documentary called \u003ca href=\"https://thegrowingseasonfilm.com/\">“The Growing Season”\u003c/a> that features a program in Seattle housing a senior center and a daycare center under one roof.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She visited the Seattle program with the intention of trying to start a similar model in Denver. The pandemic upended her plan to create a stand-alone facility, but Armao has been able to raise over $440,000 in state and local funding for the ECSC model of placing older adults in child care centers both as substitute teachers and as office staff.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over the last three years, ECSC has placed about 150 volunteers in Montessori programs and other child care centers around the Denver area. Those who want to work as teachers attend three to four months of online classes offered by Red Rocks Community College. Those who want to work with children but don’t want the extra training take 19 hours of training modules offered by ECSC. Volunteer business advisers take seven hours of free training on early childhood regulations before being placed at a center. Some of the participants in the program are paid, while others provide support to child care centers for free.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_66210\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-66210\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-1-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Older adults playing with preschooler in school\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-1-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-1-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-1-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-1-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-1-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-1-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Kit Karbler and Sunanda Babu both received early childhood training through the Early Childhood Service Corps. \u003ccite>(Sara Hertwig for The Hechinger Report)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Family Star Montessori educates 230 children, ranging from 8 weeks to 6 years old, in its two schools and its home-based learning program. Alexander’s presence in a classroom means teachers can step out to take a phone call or go to the bathroom without worrying about whether there are enough adults in the classroom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We don’t talk about bathroom breaks enough,” Armao said. “If you need to go to the bathroom, there has to be someone to come in to cover you in that space, and that can make for a very uncomfortable working environment. Meeting the needs of the adults helps with morale.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>ECSC has attracted a steady stream of local media attention, which is how most older adults learn about the program, but finding corps members to meet the need remains a challenge. Armao said she has received inquiries about replication from people in California, Ohio, Oregon and Washington state.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Just as Family Star executive director Lindsay McNicholas relies on Alexander to help care for kids, she depends on another ECSC member, Jean Townsend, for administrative support.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_66206\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-66206\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-5-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Older woman next to learning child\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-5-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-5-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-5-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-5-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-5-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-5-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sunanda Babu received early childhood training through programs offered through the Early Childhood Service Corps. \u003ccite>(Sara Hertwig for The Hechinger Report)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Before she retired, Townsend owned a local economics consulting firm and, among other accomplishments, helped to start the Colfax Marathon, an annual race that brings out thousands of runners. She came to Family Star with extensive contacts among business and political leaders as well as a roll-up-your-sleeves attitude.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’ve learned that if you’ve got a problem, you solve it,” Townsend said. She is working with the center as it plans to sell one site and buy another with more modern heating, closer to where most of the families live.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Townsend’s business background has been invaluable, McNicholas said. “I’ve been able to meet officials and city planners in Jefferson County, which is a new county for us. That has given us a jump-start with this really incredible opportunity for our organization.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Armao said the corps members come from a variety of professional backgrounds and have a range of different expectations for the experience. Along the way, they gain insight into a largely invisible profession. “They get a schooling in the state of early childhood and they come to understand it in a deeper way. Some grab onto the fact that it’s an economic driver. Others grab onto the simple fact that these children are going to be humans running our world.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kit Karbler, 72, is a glass artist whose work is displayed at the Denver Art Museum. “If I hadn’t found this, I can’t imagine what I’d be doing,” he said about being a substitute child care worker at an early learning center based at \u003ca href=\"https://elc.emanueldenver.org/\">Temple Emanuel\u003c/a> in Denver. Karbler works 20 hours a week, more if they need him. “What would I be doing that would give me this emotional return?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kamal Fakhouri, 68, worked in education and business all over the Middle East. At Monarch Montessori, a public school with 250 children ages 6 weeks through 5 years, Fakhouri fills in as a substitute teacher.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Born in Lebanon, she lived in the United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Egypt before moving to Denver to be near her daughter and grandchildren. This was during the height of the Covid pandemic. Fakhouri said she especially prizes moments of connection. “I was reading with a child in a class that I haven’t been to in a while, when [a child] just came and hugged me from the back and started telling me about what work they’re doing,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bethanne Rodriguez, executive director of the five-site \u003ca href=\"https://thrivepreschool.com/\">Thrive Preschool\u003c/a> network in the Denver area, which has welcomed corps members, said she appreciates their “older faces and older energy” — as well the example they set for the rest of the staff. “They have had a career and have that life experience to know and understand the investment that this work is,” she said. “They know what it means to show up for work and know what it means to not call out when you’re just having a bad day.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_66207\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-66207\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-4-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Older woman playing with toddlers\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-4-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-4-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-4-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-4-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-4-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2026/03/EC-child-care-older-4-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Yvonne Wilder, 57, works with children at Thrive Preschool in Littleton, Colo. \u003ccite>(Sara Hertwig for The Hechinger Report)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>One of the corps members at Thrive’s Littleton location is Yvonne Wilder. After her first week in the baby room, her muscles ached in places she’d forgotten existed. The retired wetlands biologist, who’d spent decades cataloging ecosystems for the city of Tampa, was discovering that an eight-hour shift there demanded a different kind of stamina than fieldwork ever had.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s a very physically challenging job,” said Wilder, 57. “I change diapers all the time. I do everything. I admire all the people who do this full time because it is not easy.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During her first year, Wilder says, she got sick constantly, and her adult children asked her if she really wanted to continue. Soon, though, her immune system caught up, and she discovered that spending time with the children, germs and all, makes her happy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’ve had them ask me, ‘Are you my grandma?’” she said. “And I’ll say, ‘I can be your school grandma.’ It’s such a privilege to know them and to be known by them.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Support for this reporting came from the Better Life Lab at New America.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story about child care workers was produced by \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://hechingerreport.org/\">The Hechinger Report\u003c/a>\u003cem>, a nonprofit, independent news organization focused on inequality and innovation in education. Sign up for the \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://hechingerreport.org/earlychildhood/\">\u003cem>Hechinger newsletter\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\u003cp>Putting together a school meal isn’t easy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It is a puzzle essentially,” said Lori Nelson of the Chef Ann Foundation, a nonprofit that promotes scratch cooking in schools.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When you think about the guidelines, there’s so many different pieces that you have to meet. You have to meet calorie minimums and maximums for the day and for the week. You have to meet vegetable subgroup categories.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Districts that receive federal funding for school meals — through, for example, the National School Lunch Program — must follow rules set by the Department of Agriculture (USDA).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And those rules may be changing soon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In early January, the Department of Health and Human Services and the USDA \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/01/07/nx-s1-5667021/dietary-guidelines-rfk-jr-nutrition\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">unveiled new Dietary Guidelines for Americans\u003c/a>, along with a new food pyramid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The USDA sets school nutrition standards based on those dietary guidelines, which now place an emphasis on protein and encourage Americans to consume full-fat dairy products and limit highly processed foods.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here’s what to know about how the new food pyramid could impact schools:\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Cutting back on ready-to-eat school meals won’t be easy\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Highly processed and ready-to-eat foods often contain added sugars and salt. Think mac and cheese, pizza, french fries and individually packaged peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These foods are also a big part of many school meals, said Nelson. That’s because schools often lack adequate kitchen infrastructure to prepare meals from scratch.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Many schools were built 40-plus years ago, and they were built to reheat food. So they weren’t built as commercial cooking kitchens,” said Nelson.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even so, schools have been able to bring sodium and sugar levels down in recent years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They’ve been working with food companies to find a middle ground, to find recipes that meet [the current] standards and appeal to students and that schools can serve given the equipment that they have,” said Diane Pratt-Heavner, a spokesperson for the School Nutrition Association.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bringing sugar and salt levels down further would likely require that food companies adapt their recipes and that schools prepare more meals from scratch, Pratt-Heavner said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But leaning into scratch cooking won’t be easy. A recent \u003ca href=\"https://schoolnutrition.org/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/SY-25-26-School-Nutrition-Trends-Report.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">survey\u003c/a> of school nutrition directors by the School Nutrition Association found that most programs would need better equipment and infrastructure as well as more trained staff — and nearly all respondents said they would also need more money. “You cannot go from serving heavily processed, heat-and-serve items to scratch cooking immediately,” said Nelson. “It is a transition.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Protein-rich school meals will come at a higher cost\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>At the top of the new food pyramid are animal products such as meat and cheese. The new guidelines prioritize consuming protein as a part of every meal and incorporating healthy fats.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That could cause a change in school breakfast standards,” said Pratt-Heavner. “Right now, there’s no mandate that breakfasts include a protein.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A typical school breakfast today might include fruit, milk and a cereal cup or muffin; some schools may serve breakfast burritos or sandwiches.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She said schools would “absolutely need more funding,” should they be required to provide protein under the USDA’s School Breakfast Program.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.fns.usda.gov/school-meals/nutrition-standards/sbp-meal-pattern\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Current standards\u003c/a> allow for schools to serve either grains or meats/meat alternates for breakfast, and Pratt-Heavner said, “Protein options … are more expensive than grain options.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She said it’s unclear whether the USDA would require protein under its own category or whether the agency would consider milk to be sufficient to meet any new protein requirements.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Whole milk is getting a lot of attention\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Schools that participate in federal school meal programs are required to offer milk with every meal, though students don’t have to take it. Up until recently, an \u003ca href=\"https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/default/files/omb/assets/oira_0584/0584_12122011-1.pdf#page=4\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Obama-era rule\u003c/a> allowed for only low-fat and nonfat milk in schools.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But the new food pyramid emphasizes whole fat dairy, like whole milk. At the same time, \u003ca href=\"https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/senate-bill/222/text/is\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">recent federal legislation\u003c/a> reversed that Obama-era rule and now allows schools to serve reduced-fat and full-fat milk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One more thing to know about milk: Federal law also limits saturated fats in school meals — and whole milk has more of those than low-fat and nonfat varieties. But the recent federal legislation now exempts milk fat from those limits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What does all this mean for schools? They’re now able to start serving whole milk, and they won’t have to worry about whole milk pushing them past the limits on saturated fats.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>It’ll be a while before these changes trickle down to schools\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>While the USDA sets regulations for schools based on the Dietary Guidelines for Americans, it takes time to draft and implement new rules after new guidelines are released.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The current school nutrition standards that we’re operating under were proposed in February 2023, finalized in April 2024,” said Pratt-Heavner. “The first menu changes in school cafeterias were not required until July 2025.” Other changes are still rolling out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Which is to say: The new dietary guidelines won’t bring immediate changes to school cafeterias. They’re only the first step in a regulatory process that will take time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re going to have to see what USDA proposes,” said Pratt-Heavner.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Then, she said, “the public will comment on those regulations, and then final rules will be drafted and issued.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The USDA then gives schools and school food companies time to update recipes and implement the new nutrition standards.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"excerpt": "Cutting back on ready-to-eat meals won't be easy, and whole milk may make a comeback. One thing that's certain: It'll be a while before the new guidelines trickle down to schools.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Putting together a school meal isn’t easy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It is a puzzle essentially,” said Lori Nelson of the Chef Ann Foundation, a nonprofit that promotes scratch cooking in schools.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When you think about the guidelines, there’s so many different pieces that you have to meet. You have to meet calorie minimums and maximums for the day and for the week. You have to meet vegetable subgroup categories.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Districts that receive federal funding for school meals — through, for example, the National School Lunch Program — must follow rules set by the Department of Agriculture (USDA).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And those rules may be changing soon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In early January, the Department of Health and Human Services and the USDA \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2026/01/07/nx-s1-5667021/dietary-guidelines-rfk-jr-nutrition\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">unveiled new Dietary Guidelines for Americans\u003c/a>, along with a new food pyramid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The USDA sets school nutrition standards based on those dietary guidelines, which now place an emphasis on protein and encourage Americans to consume full-fat dairy products and limit highly processed foods.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here’s what to know about how the new food pyramid could impact schools:\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Cutting back on ready-to-eat school meals won’t be easy\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Highly processed and ready-to-eat foods often contain added sugars and salt. Think mac and cheese, pizza, french fries and individually packaged peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These foods are also a big part of many school meals, said Nelson. That’s because schools often lack adequate kitchen infrastructure to prepare meals from scratch.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Many schools were built 40-plus years ago, and they were built to reheat food. So they weren’t built as commercial cooking kitchens,” said Nelson.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even so, schools have been able to bring sodium and sugar levels down in recent years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They’ve been working with food companies to find a middle ground, to find recipes that meet [the current] standards and appeal to students and that schools can serve given the equipment that they have,” said Diane Pratt-Heavner, a spokesperson for the School Nutrition Association.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bringing sugar and salt levels down further would likely require that food companies adapt their recipes and that schools prepare more meals from scratch, Pratt-Heavner said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But leaning into scratch cooking won’t be easy. A recent \u003ca href=\"https://schoolnutrition.org/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/SY-25-26-School-Nutrition-Trends-Report.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">survey\u003c/a> of school nutrition directors by the School Nutrition Association found that most programs would need better equipment and infrastructure as well as more trained staff — and nearly all respondents said they would also need more money. “You cannot go from serving heavily processed, heat-and-serve items to scratch cooking immediately,” said Nelson. “It is a transition.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Protein-rich school meals will come at a higher cost\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>At the top of the new food pyramid are animal products such as meat and cheese. The new guidelines prioritize consuming protein as a part of every meal and incorporating healthy fats.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That could cause a change in school breakfast standards,” said Pratt-Heavner. “Right now, there’s no mandate that breakfasts include a protein.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A typical school breakfast today might include fruit, milk and a cereal cup or muffin; some schools may serve breakfast burritos or sandwiches.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She said schools would “absolutely need more funding,” should they be required to provide protein under the USDA’s School Breakfast Program.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.fns.usda.gov/school-meals/nutrition-standards/sbp-meal-pattern\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Current standards\u003c/a> allow for schools to serve either grains or meats/meat alternates for breakfast, and Pratt-Heavner said, “Protein options … are more expensive than grain options.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She said it’s unclear whether the USDA would require protein under its own category or whether the agency would consider milk to be sufficient to meet any new protein requirements.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Whole milk is getting a lot of attention\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Schools that participate in federal school meal programs are required to offer milk with every meal, though students don’t have to take it. Up until recently, an \u003ca href=\"https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/default/files/omb/assets/oira_0584/0584_12122011-1.pdf#page=4\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Obama-era rule\u003c/a> allowed for only low-fat and nonfat milk in schools.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But the new food pyramid emphasizes whole fat dairy, like whole milk. At the same time, \u003ca href=\"https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/senate-bill/222/text/is\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">recent federal legislation\u003c/a> reversed that Obama-era rule and now allows schools to serve reduced-fat and full-fat milk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One more thing to know about milk: Federal law also limits saturated fats in school meals — and whole milk has more of those than low-fat and nonfat varieties. But the recent federal legislation now exempts milk fat from those limits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What does all this mean for schools? They’re now able to start serving whole milk, and they won’t have to worry about whole milk pushing them past the limits on saturated fats.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>It’ll be a while before these changes trickle down to schools\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>While the USDA sets regulations for schools based on the Dietary Guidelines for Americans, it takes time to draft and implement new rules after new guidelines are released.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The current school nutrition standards that we’re operating under were proposed in February 2023, finalized in April 2024,” said Pratt-Heavner. “The first menu changes in school cafeterias were not required until July 2025.” Other changes are still rolling out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Which is to say: The new dietary guidelines won’t bring immediate changes to school cafeterias. They’re only the first step in a regulatory process that will take time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re going to have to see what USDA proposes,” said Pratt-Heavner.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Then, she said, “the public will comment on those regulations, and then final rules will be drafted and issued.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The USDA then gives schools and school food companies time to update recipes and implement the new nutrition standards.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\u003cp>SAN FRANCISCO — In a playground outside a YMCA, Mayra Aguilar rolled purple modeling dough into balls that fit easily into the palms of the toddlers sitting across from her. She helped a little girl named Wynter unclasp a bicycle helmet that she’d put on to zoom around the space on a tricycle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Aguilar smiled, the sun glinting off her saucer-sized gold hoop earrings. “Say, ‘Thank you, teacher,’” Aguilar prompted Wynter, who was just shy of 3. Other toddlers crowded around Wynter and Aguilar and a big plastic bin of Crayola Dough, and Aguilar took the moment to teach another brief lesson. “Wynter, we share,” Aguilar pressed, scooting the tub between kids. “Say, ‘Can you pass it to me?’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Aguilar and Wynter are both new at this. Wynter has been in the structured setting of a child care center only since mid-August. Aguilar started teaching preschoolers and toddlers, part-time, in February.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It has been life-changing, in different ways, for them both. Wynter, an only child, is learning to share, count and recognize her letters. Aguilar is being paid to work and earning her first college credits — building the foundation for a new career, all while learning new ways to interact with her own three kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Early educators are generally in short supply, and many who attempt this work quickly quit. The pay is on par with wages at fast food restaurants and big box stores, or even less. Yet unlike some other jobs with better pay, working with small children and infants usually requires some kind of education beyond a high school diploma. Moving up the ladder and pay scale often requires a degree.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What’s different for Aguilar compared to so many other people trying out this profession is that she is an apprentice — a training arrangement more commonly associated with welders, machinists and pipefitters. Apprentice programs for early childhood education have been in place in different parts of the country for at least a decade, but San Francisco’s program stands out. It is unusually well, and sustainably, funded by a real estate tax voters approved in 2018. The money raised is meant to cover the cost of programs that train early childhood educators and to boost pay enough so teachers can see themselves doing it for the long term.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_66001\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-66001\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-2-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Kids reading in a nook\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-2-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-2-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-2-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-2-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-2-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-2-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Children play in the playground of the Wu Yee Children’s Services’ Bayview Early Learning Center in San Francisco. \u003ccite>(Emmanuel Guillén Lozano for The Hechinger Report )\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Some policy experts see apprenticeships as a potential game changer for the early educator workforce. The layers of support they provide can keep frazzled newcomers from giving up, and required coursework may cost them nothing. “We want it to be a position people want to go into as opposed to one that puts you in poverty,” said Cheryl Horney, who oversees the Early Learning Program that employs apprentices at Wu Yee Children’s Services in San Francisco, including the site where Aguilar works.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Aguilar, 32, is paid to work 20 hours a week at the Wu Yee Children’s Services’ Bayview Early Learning Center, tucked inside a Y in a residential neighborhood a little under a mile from San Francisco Bay. She works alongside a mentor teacher who supports and coaches her. The apprenticeship covers the online classes, designed just for her and other apprentices and taught live from City College of San Francisco, that Aguilar takes a few nights a week. She was given all the tools needed for her courses, including a laptop, which she also uses for homework and discussions with other apprentices outside of class.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_66006\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-66006\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-7-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Kids work with teachers at tables\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-7-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-7-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-7-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-7-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-7-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-7-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Early educator apprentice Mayra Aguilar, right, and her mentor teacher Jetoria Washington supervise children during outdoor play at the Wu Yee Children’s Services’ Bayview Early Learning Center in San Francisco. \u003ccite>(Emmanuel Guillén Lozano for The Hechinger Report)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>After high school, Aguilar had tried college, a medical assistant program that she quit after a few months. That was more than 10 years ago. She hadn’t touched a computer in all that time. When she was enrolling her youngest daughter at another Wu Yee location, Aguilar saw a flyer about the apprenticeship program and applied. She said is finding this work to be a far better fit: “This — I think I can do it. This, I like it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The need for more early educators is longstanding, and in recent years there’s been a push for early educators to get postsecondary training, both \u003ca href=\"https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.4073/csr.2017.1\">to support young children’s development\u003c/a> and so the roles command higher salaries. For example, a 2007 change in federal law required at least half of teachers working in Head Start to have bachelor’s degrees in early childhood education by 2013, \u003ca href=\"https://www.newamerica.org/early-elementary-education/early-ed-watch/head-start-exceeds-requirement-that-half-of-teachers-earn-ba-in-early-childhood/\">a goal the program met\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite efforts to professionalize the workforce, salaries for those who work with young children remain low: \u003ca href=\"https://cscce.berkeley.edu/workforce-index-2020/the-early-educator-workforce/early-educator-pay-economic-insecurity-across-the-states/\">87 percent of U.S. jobs pay more\u003c/a> than a preschool teacher earns on average; 98 percent pay more than what early child care workers earn. In 2022, Head Start lead teachers \u003ca href=\"https://nieer.org/sites/default/files/2023-10/hs_fullreport.pdf#page=27\">earned $37,685 a year\u003c/a> on average.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Apprenticeships are seen as one way to disrupt that stubborn reality. Would-be teachers are paid while being trained for a range of positions – from entry-level roles that require a small number of college credits or training, to jobs such as running a child care center that require degrees and come with more responsibility and even higher pay. According to a June 2023 report from the Bipartisan Policy Center, a think tank, \u003ca href=\"https://bipartisanpolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/BPC_WOIA_Apprenticeship_Report_RV2.pdf#page=9\">35 states\u003c/a> have some kind of early childhood educator apprenticeship program at the city, regional or state level, and more states are developing their own programs. U.S. Department of Labor data shows that more than 1,000 early educator apprentices have completed their programs since the 2021 fiscal year. Early Care & Educator Pathways to Success, which has received Labor Department grants to help set up apprenticeship programs, estimates the numbers are far larger given its work has cultivated hundreds of apprentices in 21 states, including Alaska, California, Connecticut and Nebraska.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These programs can be complicated to launch, however. They sometimes require painstaking work to find colleges that will provide coursework specific to local regulations and at hours that work for apprentices who may be in classrooms much of the workday as well as tending to their own children. They require money to pay the apprentices — on top of whatever it already costs to run child care centers and pay existing staff. The apprentices also typically need other layers of support: coaching, computers, sometimes child care and even meals for apprentices’ own kids as they study and take exams.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_66004\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-66004\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-5-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Kids working with art supplies at a table\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-5-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-5-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-5-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-5-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-5-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-5-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Children color and glue paper clothes on paper people during a classroom activity at the YMCA of the East Bay Richmond Parkway Early Learning Center in Richmond, Calif., a Head Start center that provides free child care. They had just read “Jesse Bear, What Will You Wear?” \u003ccite>(Emmanuel Guillén Lozano for The Hechinger Report )\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In San Francisco, Horney advocated for her employer to set up an apprenticeship program for staffers at its 12 Head Start centers even before the tax money became available. She recalled losing teachers to chain retailers like Costco and Walgreens where they found less stressful jobs with more generous benefits. When she arrived in San Francisco to work in the classroom, with five years of experience and a bachelor’s degree, she was paid $15 an hour. “Now the lowest salary we pay is $28.67 for any sort of educator,” she said, and the wages and apprenticeships are even drawing people from other counties and stabilizing the San Francisco early educator workforce. “It has helped immensely.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Other parts of the country have seen success with similar initiatives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The YWCA Metro St. Louis in Missouri, which hasn’t had a single teacher vacancy at the child care centers it oversees for the last two years, credits its apprenticeship program. In Guilford County, North Carolina, vacancies and staff turnover were a plague until recently, but an apprenticeship program for entry-level early educators has kept new teachers on the job.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Elsewhere, there is hope for those kinds of results. In the Oklahoma City area, an apprenticeship program started in 2023 just yielded its first graduate, who worked in a child care center for two years and completed a 288-hour training program. Curtiss Mays, who created the program for teachers at the group of Head Start centers he oversees, was in the midst of trying to hire 11 educators just as the first apprentice earned a credential that allows her to back up other teachers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s a pretty major project,” Mays said. “We hope it’s the start of something really good.” Mays worked with the Oklahoma Department of Labor to set up the apprenticeship program, which he said has already pulled one person out of homelessness and is helping to lure more aspiring teachers. It will pay for education all the way through a bachelor’s degree if apprentices stick with it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Apprenticeship programs can be costly to run, but \u003ca href=\"https://www.young.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/senators-young-casey-capito-reintroduce-bill-to-support-child-care-workforce/\">bipartisan federal legislation\u003c/a> to support them has never gained traction. (Advocates note that \u003ca href=\"https://www.first5alameda.org/wp-content/uploads/Measure-C-5-Year-Plan-June-2025.pdf\">apprenticeships can cost far less\u003c/a> than a traditional four-year college degree.) Labor Department money for organizations that help set up and grow early childhood educator apprenticeships helped increase the number of apprentices in so-called \u003ca href=\"https://www.apprenticeship.gov/employers/registered-apprenticeship-program\">registered apprenticeship programs\u003c/a> — ones that are proven and validated by the federal agency. But some of those grants \u003ca href=\"https://www.k12dive.com/news/staffed-up-federal-support-waning-for-registered-teacher-apprenticeships/748913/\">were axed\u003c/a> by the Trump administration in May.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In San Francisco, while setting up apprenticeships was as labor intensive as in many other places, the 2018 real estate tax provides a new, and deep, well of money to propel the early educator apprentice effort. The money pays for all of the things that are letting Aguilar and dozens of others in the county earn at least 12 college credits this year. In two semesters, Aguilar will have the credentials to be an associate teacher in any early education program in California. Other apprentices across San Francisco, in Head Start centers, family-owned child care programs, even some religious providers, can work toward associate or bachelor’s degrees using the new tax revenue to pay for it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_66005\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-66005\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-6-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Kids play at a playground\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-6-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-6-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-6-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-6-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-6-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-6-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Children play at the playground of the YMCA of the East Bay Richmond Parkway Early Learning Center in Richmond, Calif. \u003ccite>(Emmanuel Guillén Lozano for The Hechinger Report )\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Long before the ballot measure across the bay in San Francisco, Pamm Shaw dreamed up the forerunner of an early educator apprenticeship program in a moment of desperation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was over a decade ago, and Shaw, who was then working at the YMCA East Bay overseeing a collection of Head Start centers, said her agency was awarded a grant to add spaces for about 100 additional infants. Except her existing staff didn’t want to work with children younger than 3. So Shaw sent notices to the roughly 1,000 families with children enrolled in YMCA East Bay Head Start programs at the time and convinced about 20 people, largely parents of children enrolled in Head Start, to consider the role. She pulled together the training that would qualify the parents to become early educators — 12 college credits in six months.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The education piece, Shaw realized, was a huge draw. Some of the parents had spent 10 years working toward associate degrees on their own without getting them. Giving them the chance to earn those degrees in manageable chunks — while getting paid and receiving raises relatively quickly as their education advanced — proved a powerful recruitment tool. “It changed their lives,” Shaw said. And these new teachers had their eyes opened to how what they would be doing wasn’t just babysitting. They took away lessons they used with their own children — who in turn took notice of their parents studying. “It’s actually child care,” said Shaw. “So much happens in the first year of life that you never get to see again. Never, ever, ever.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It changed Shaw’s life, too, and inspired many other apprenticeship programs all over. Her role morphed into fundraising to build out the apprenticeship pipeline. The program, now baked into the YMCA of the East Bay system, reflected the overall early educator workforce: It was made up entirely of women, mostly women of color, some of them immigrants and many first-generation college students. By the time Shaw retired a few years ago, more than 500 people in the Berkeley area had completed the educator apprenticeship program.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_66003\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-66003\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-4-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Teacher reads to kids\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-4-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-4-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-4-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-4-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-4-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-4-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Erica Davis, an early educator apprentice who works at the YMCA of the East Bay Richmond Parkway Early Learning Center in Richmond, Calif., reads a book to 2- and 3-year-olds during circle time. She will earn her bachelor’s degree from Cal State East Bay this spring. \u003ccite>(Emmanuel Guillén Lozano for The Hechinger Report )\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Erica Davis, a single mom, is a success story of the program. When she met Shaw, Davis said, she was relying on public assistance and jobs caring for other people’s children, while taking care of a daughter with significant medical needs, as well as her toddler-age son. Davis was at a Head Start dropping off paperwork for the family of a child in her care when an employee told Davis her young son might be eligible for Head Start too. He was, and as Davis enrolled him, she learned about Shaw’s apprenticeship program. Davis missed the first window to apply, but as she put it, “I was blowing their phone up. I needed to get in.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That was 2020. By this spring, Davis will have earned her bachelor’s degree from Cal State East Bay. She works full-time at a Richmond, California, Head Start center while taking classes and supporting her kids, now in high school and elementary school. She can afford to rent a two-bedroom apartment, owns a car and no longer relies on state or federal assistance to pay bills. She’s on the dean’s list, and, she said proudly, she can squat 205.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I didn’t take my education seriously,” Davis, 41, said of her younger self. “I feel like I’m playing catch-up now.” She is in her element at YMCA of the East Bay Richmond Parkway Early Learning Center, reading to children, working on potty training and leading the kids through coloring-and-pasting exercises. She has even become an informal coach for newer apprentices. The network and family feel of these apprenticeships is some of what helps many succeed, she said. “I have a sad story, but it turned into something beautiful.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While Davis said she prefers the flexibility of taking classes at her own pace, other apprentices thrive in the kind of classes Aguilar attends, with a live instructor who starts off leading students in a mindfulness exercise. That is the same approach to teaching apprentices at EDvance College in San Francisco, which works exclusively with early childhood apprentices, according to its president and CEO, Lygia Stebbing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The college provides general education classes in reading, math and science for apprentices pursuing degrees, taught through an early childhood lens so it feels approachable and relevant. And every lesson can be applied nearly in real time, unlike other paths to degrees, in which in-person teaching experience comes only after many classes, Stebbing said. Before beginning classes, apprentices get a crash course in using technology, from distinguishing between a tablet and a laptop to using Google docs and Zoom, “so they can jump right into things,” she said. A writing coach and other student support staff are available in the evenings, when apprentices are taking courses or doing homework. Because many of the apprentices are older than typical college students and may even have used up their federal Pell Grants and other financial aid taking courses without earning a degree, the college works with foundations and local government agencies to offset the cost of courses so graduates don’t end up in debt.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’ve really put the student at the center,” Stebbing said.\u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_66002\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-66002\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-3-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Two teachers\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-3-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-3-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-3-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-3-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-3-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-3-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Early educator apprentice Mayra Aguilar, left, and her mentor teacher Jetoria Washington at Wu Yee Children’s Services’ Bayview Early Learning Center. Aguilar works 20 hours a week while earning the credentials she needs to get a full-time teaching role. \u003ccite>(Emmanuel Guillén Lozano for The Hechinger Report )\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>For Mayra Aguilar, her mentor teacher Jetoria Washington is a lifeline who can help her unstick an issue with any aspect of the apprenticeship — in the classes she takes or the classroom where she works. Taking courses online means she can be home with her own kids in the evenings. Earning money for the hours she spends in the classroom means she is not going into debt to earn the credential she needs to find a full-time job. The constellation of support has helped her shift from feeling in over her head to feeling ready to keep working toward a college degree.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And she is having fun. On the playground, one of the kids had the idea to trace another with sidewalk chalk, working on their pencil grip as much as they were playing. Except it wasn’t just the other kids: They traced Aguilar, too. When it was time to go back inside, powdery green and pink lines crisscrossed the back of her brown pants and black blouse. She wasn’t bothered.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I love the kids,” she said. “They always make me laugh.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Aguilar has even picked up skills that she uses with her own children, something many apprentices describe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, she sometimes says to her youngest daughter, “Catch a bubble.” That’s preschool speak for “Be quiet.” When a teacher needs the toddlers’ attention, kids hear this phrase, then fill their cheeks with air.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Most of the time, at home and at work, a brief silence follows. Then the kids look up, ready to hear what comes next.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Contact staff writer \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://hechingerreport.org/author/nirvi-shah/\">\u003cem>Nirvi Shah\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem> at \u003c/em>\u003cem>212-678-3445, on Signal at NirviShah.14\u003c/em>\u003cem> or \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"mailto:shah@hechingerreport.org\">\u003cem>shah@hechingerreport.org\u003c/em>\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Reporting on this story was supported by the \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://citizensandscholars.org/fellowships/higher-ed-media-fellowship/\">\u003cem>Higher Ed Media Fellowship\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story about \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://hechingerreport.org/one-city-finding-early-educators/\">\u003cem>preschool teachers\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem> was produced by \u003c/em>The Hechinger Report\u003cem>, a nonprofit, independent news organization focused on inequality and innovation in education. Sign up for \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://hechingerreport.org/earlychildhood/\">\u003cem>the Hechinger newsletter\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>SAN FRANCISCO — In a playground outside a YMCA, Mayra Aguilar rolled purple modeling dough into balls that fit easily into the palms of the toddlers sitting across from her. She helped a little girl named Wynter unclasp a bicycle helmet that she’d put on to zoom around the space on a tricycle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Aguilar smiled, the sun glinting off her saucer-sized gold hoop earrings. “Say, ‘Thank you, teacher,’” Aguilar prompted Wynter, who was just shy of 3. Other toddlers crowded around Wynter and Aguilar and a big plastic bin of Crayola Dough, and Aguilar took the moment to teach another brief lesson. “Wynter, we share,” Aguilar pressed, scooting the tub between kids. “Say, ‘Can you pass it to me?’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Aguilar and Wynter are both new at this. Wynter has been in the structured setting of a child care center only since mid-August. Aguilar started teaching preschoolers and toddlers, part-time, in February.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It has been life-changing, in different ways, for them both. Wynter, an only child, is learning to share, count and recognize her letters. Aguilar is being paid to work and earning her first college credits — building the foundation for a new career, all while learning new ways to interact with her own three kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Early educators are generally in short supply, and many who attempt this work quickly quit. The pay is on par with wages at fast food restaurants and big box stores, or even less. Yet unlike some other jobs with better pay, working with small children and infants usually requires some kind of education beyond a high school diploma. Moving up the ladder and pay scale often requires a degree.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What’s different for Aguilar compared to so many other people trying out this profession is that she is an apprentice — a training arrangement more commonly associated with welders, machinists and pipefitters. Apprentice programs for early childhood education have been in place in different parts of the country for at least a decade, but San Francisco’s program stands out. It is unusually well, and sustainably, funded by a real estate tax voters approved in 2018. The money raised is meant to cover the cost of programs that train early childhood educators and to boost pay enough so teachers can see themselves doing it for the long term.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_66001\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-66001\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-2-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Kids reading in a nook\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-2-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-2-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-2-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-2-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-2-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-2-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Children play in the playground of the Wu Yee Children’s Services’ Bayview Early Learning Center in San Francisco. \u003ccite>(Emmanuel Guillén Lozano for The Hechinger Report )\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Some policy experts see apprenticeships as a potential game changer for the early educator workforce. The layers of support they provide can keep frazzled newcomers from giving up, and required coursework may cost them nothing. “We want it to be a position people want to go into as opposed to one that puts you in poverty,” said Cheryl Horney, who oversees the Early Learning Program that employs apprentices at Wu Yee Children’s Services in San Francisco, including the site where Aguilar works.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Aguilar, 32, is paid to work 20 hours a week at the Wu Yee Children’s Services’ Bayview Early Learning Center, tucked inside a Y in a residential neighborhood a little under a mile from San Francisco Bay. She works alongside a mentor teacher who supports and coaches her. The apprenticeship covers the online classes, designed just for her and other apprentices and taught live from City College of San Francisco, that Aguilar takes a few nights a week. She was given all the tools needed for her courses, including a laptop, which she also uses for homework and discussions with other apprentices outside of class.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_66006\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-66006\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-7-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Kids work with teachers at tables\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-7-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-7-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-7-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-7-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-7-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-7-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Early educator apprentice Mayra Aguilar, right, and her mentor teacher Jetoria Washington supervise children during outdoor play at the Wu Yee Children’s Services’ Bayview Early Learning Center in San Francisco. \u003ccite>(Emmanuel Guillén Lozano for The Hechinger Report)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>After high school, Aguilar had tried college, a medical assistant program that she quit after a few months. That was more than 10 years ago. She hadn’t touched a computer in all that time. When she was enrolling her youngest daughter at another Wu Yee location, Aguilar saw a flyer about the apprenticeship program and applied. She said is finding this work to be a far better fit: “This — I think I can do it. This, I like it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The need for more early educators is longstanding, and in recent years there’s been a push for early educators to get postsecondary training, both \u003ca href=\"https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.4073/csr.2017.1\">to support young children’s development\u003c/a> and so the roles command higher salaries. For example, a 2007 change in federal law required at least half of teachers working in Head Start to have bachelor’s degrees in early childhood education by 2013, \u003ca href=\"https://www.newamerica.org/early-elementary-education/early-ed-watch/head-start-exceeds-requirement-that-half-of-teachers-earn-ba-in-early-childhood/\">a goal the program met\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite efforts to professionalize the workforce, salaries for those who work with young children remain low: \u003ca href=\"https://cscce.berkeley.edu/workforce-index-2020/the-early-educator-workforce/early-educator-pay-economic-insecurity-across-the-states/\">87 percent of U.S. jobs pay more\u003c/a> than a preschool teacher earns on average; 98 percent pay more than what early child care workers earn. In 2022, Head Start lead teachers \u003ca href=\"https://nieer.org/sites/default/files/2023-10/hs_fullreport.pdf#page=27\">earned $37,685 a year\u003c/a> on average.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Apprenticeships are seen as one way to disrupt that stubborn reality. Would-be teachers are paid while being trained for a range of positions – from entry-level roles that require a small number of college credits or training, to jobs such as running a child care center that require degrees and come with more responsibility and even higher pay. According to a June 2023 report from the Bipartisan Policy Center, a think tank, \u003ca href=\"https://bipartisanpolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/BPC_WOIA_Apprenticeship_Report_RV2.pdf#page=9\">35 states\u003c/a> have some kind of early childhood educator apprenticeship program at the city, regional or state level, and more states are developing their own programs. U.S. Department of Labor data shows that more than 1,000 early educator apprentices have completed their programs since the 2021 fiscal year. Early Care & Educator Pathways to Success, which has received Labor Department grants to help set up apprenticeship programs, estimates the numbers are far larger given its work has cultivated hundreds of apprentices in 21 states, including Alaska, California, Connecticut and Nebraska.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These programs can be complicated to launch, however. They sometimes require painstaking work to find colleges that will provide coursework specific to local regulations and at hours that work for apprentices who may be in classrooms much of the workday as well as tending to their own children. They require money to pay the apprentices — on top of whatever it already costs to run child care centers and pay existing staff. The apprentices also typically need other layers of support: coaching, computers, sometimes child care and even meals for apprentices’ own kids as they study and take exams.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_66004\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-66004\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-5-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Kids working with art supplies at a table\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-5-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-5-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-5-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-5-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-5-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-5-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Children color and glue paper clothes on paper people during a classroom activity at the YMCA of the East Bay Richmond Parkway Early Learning Center in Richmond, Calif., a Head Start center that provides free child care. They had just read “Jesse Bear, What Will You Wear?” \u003ccite>(Emmanuel Guillén Lozano for The Hechinger Report )\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In San Francisco, Horney advocated for her employer to set up an apprenticeship program for staffers at its 12 Head Start centers even before the tax money became available. She recalled losing teachers to chain retailers like Costco and Walgreens where they found less stressful jobs with more generous benefits. When she arrived in San Francisco to work in the classroom, with five years of experience and a bachelor’s degree, she was paid $15 an hour. “Now the lowest salary we pay is $28.67 for any sort of educator,” she said, and the wages and apprenticeships are even drawing people from other counties and stabilizing the San Francisco early educator workforce. “It has helped immensely.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Other parts of the country have seen success with similar initiatives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The YWCA Metro St. Louis in Missouri, which hasn’t had a single teacher vacancy at the child care centers it oversees for the last two years, credits its apprenticeship program. In Guilford County, North Carolina, vacancies and staff turnover were a plague until recently, but an apprenticeship program for entry-level early educators has kept new teachers on the job.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Elsewhere, there is hope for those kinds of results. In the Oklahoma City area, an apprenticeship program started in 2023 just yielded its first graduate, who worked in a child care center for two years and completed a 288-hour training program. Curtiss Mays, who created the program for teachers at the group of Head Start centers he oversees, was in the midst of trying to hire 11 educators just as the first apprentice earned a credential that allows her to back up other teachers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s a pretty major project,” Mays said. “We hope it’s the start of something really good.” Mays worked with the Oklahoma Department of Labor to set up the apprenticeship program, which he said has already pulled one person out of homelessness and is helping to lure more aspiring teachers. It will pay for education all the way through a bachelor’s degree if apprentices stick with it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Apprenticeship programs can be costly to run, but \u003ca href=\"https://www.young.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/senators-young-casey-capito-reintroduce-bill-to-support-child-care-workforce/\">bipartisan federal legislation\u003c/a> to support them has never gained traction. (Advocates note that \u003ca href=\"https://www.first5alameda.org/wp-content/uploads/Measure-C-5-Year-Plan-June-2025.pdf\">apprenticeships can cost far less\u003c/a> than a traditional four-year college degree.) Labor Department money for organizations that help set up and grow early childhood educator apprenticeships helped increase the number of apprentices in so-called \u003ca href=\"https://www.apprenticeship.gov/employers/registered-apprenticeship-program\">registered apprenticeship programs\u003c/a> — ones that are proven and validated by the federal agency. But some of those grants \u003ca href=\"https://www.k12dive.com/news/staffed-up-federal-support-waning-for-registered-teacher-apprenticeships/748913/\">were axed\u003c/a> by the Trump administration in May.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In San Francisco, while setting up apprenticeships was as labor intensive as in many other places, the 2018 real estate tax provides a new, and deep, well of money to propel the early educator apprentice effort. The money pays for all of the things that are letting Aguilar and dozens of others in the county earn at least 12 college credits this year. In two semesters, Aguilar will have the credentials to be an associate teacher in any early education program in California. Other apprentices across San Francisco, in Head Start centers, family-owned child care programs, even some religious providers, can work toward associate or bachelor’s degrees using the new tax revenue to pay for it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_66005\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-66005\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-6-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Kids play at a playground\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-6-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-6-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-6-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-6-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-6-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-6-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Children play at the playground of the YMCA of the East Bay Richmond Parkway Early Learning Center in Richmond, Calif. \u003ccite>(Emmanuel Guillén Lozano for The Hechinger Report )\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Long before the ballot measure across the bay in San Francisco, Pamm Shaw dreamed up the forerunner of an early educator apprenticeship program in a moment of desperation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was over a decade ago, and Shaw, who was then working at the YMCA East Bay overseeing a collection of Head Start centers, said her agency was awarded a grant to add spaces for about 100 additional infants. Except her existing staff didn’t want to work with children younger than 3. So Shaw sent notices to the roughly 1,000 families with children enrolled in YMCA East Bay Head Start programs at the time and convinced about 20 people, largely parents of children enrolled in Head Start, to consider the role. She pulled together the training that would qualify the parents to become early educators — 12 college credits in six months.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The education piece, Shaw realized, was a huge draw. Some of the parents had spent 10 years working toward associate degrees on their own without getting them. Giving them the chance to earn those degrees in manageable chunks — while getting paid and receiving raises relatively quickly as their education advanced — proved a powerful recruitment tool. “It changed their lives,” Shaw said. And these new teachers had their eyes opened to how what they would be doing wasn’t just babysitting. They took away lessons they used with their own children — who in turn took notice of their parents studying. “It’s actually child care,” said Shaw. “So much happens in the first year of life that you never get to see again. Never, ever, ever.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It changed Shaw’s life, too, and inspired many other apprenticeship programs all over. Her role morphed into fundraising to build out the apprenticeship pipeline. The program, now baked into the YMCA of the East Bay system, reflected the overall early educator workforce: It was made up entirely of women, mostly women of color, some of them immigrants and many first-generation college students. By the time Shaw retired a few years ago, more than 500 people in the Berkeley area had completed the educator apprenticeship program.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_66003\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-66003\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-4-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Teacher reads to kids\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-4-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-4-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-4-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-4-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-4-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-4-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Erica Davis, an early educator apprentice who works at the YMCA of the East Bay Richmond Parkway Early Learning Center in Richmond, Calif., reads a book to 2- and 3-year-olds during circle time. She will earn her bachelor’s degree from Cal State East Bay this spring. \u003ccite>(Emmanuel Guillén Lozano for The Hechinger Report )\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Erica Davis, a single mom, is a success story of the program. When she met Shaw, Davis said, she was relying on public assistance and jobs caring for other people’s children, while taking care of a daughter with significant medical needs, as well as her toddler-age son. Davis was at a Head Start dropping off paperwork for the family of a child in her care when an employee told Davis her young son might be eligible for Head Start too. He was, and as Davis enrolled him, she learned about Shaw’s apprenticeship program. Davis missed the first window to apply, but as she put it, “I was blowing their phone up. I needed to get in.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That was 2020. By this spring, Davis will have earned her bachelor’s degree from Cal State East Bay. She works full-time at a Richmond, California, Head Start center while taking classes and supporting her kids, now in high school and elementary school. She can afford to rent a two-bedroom apartment, owns a car and no longer relies on state or federal assistance to pay bills. She’s on the dean’s list, and, she said proudly, she can squat 205.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I didn’t take my education seriously,” Davis, 41, said of her younger self. “I feel like I’m playing catch-up now.” She is in her element at YMCA of the East Bay Richmond Parkway Early Learning Center, reading to children, working on potty training and leading the kids through coloring-and-pasting exercises. She has even become an informal coach for newer apprentices. The network and family feel of these apprenticeships is some of what helps many succeed, she said. “I have a sad story, but it turned into something beautiful.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While Davis said she prefers the flexibility of taking classes at her own pace, other apprentices thrive in the kind of classes Aguilar attends, with a live instructor who starts off leading students in a mindfulness exercise. That is the same approach to teaching apprentices at EDvance College in San Francisco, which works exclusively with early childhood apprentices, according to its president and CEO, Lygia Stebbing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The college provides general education classes in reading, math and science for apprentices pursuing degrees, taught through an early childhood lens so it feels approachable and relevant. And every lesson can be applied nearly in real time, unlike other paths to degrees, in which in-person teaching experience comes only after many classes, Stebbing said. Before beginning classes, apprentices get a crash course in using technology, from distinguishing between a tablet and a laptop to using Google docs and Zoom, “so they can jump right into things,” she said. A writing coach and other student support staff are available in the evenings, when apprentices are taking courses or doing homework. Because many of the apprentices are older than typical college students and may even have used up their federal Pell Grants and other financial aid taking courses without earning a degree, the college works with foundations and local government agencies to offset the cost of courses so graduates don’t end up in debt.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’ve really put the student at the center,” Stebbing said.\u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_66002\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-66002\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-3-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"Two teachers\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-3-scaled.jpg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-3-2000x1333.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-3-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-3-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-3-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/12/EC-Child-Care-Apprentices-3-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Early educator apprentice Mayra Aguilar, left, and her mentor teacher Jetoria Washington at Wu Yee Children’s Services’ Bayview Early Learning Center. Aguilar works 20 hours a week while earning the credentials she needs to get a full-time teaching role. \u003ccite>(Emmanuel Guillén Lozano for The Hechinger Report )\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>For Mayra Aguilar, her mentor teacher Jetoria Washington is a lifeline who can help her unstick an issue with any aspect of the apprenticeship — in the classes she takes or the classroom where she works. Taking courses online means she can be home with her own kids in the evenings. Earning money for the hours she spends in the classroom means she is not going into debt to earn the credential she needs to find a full-time job. The constellation of support has helped her shift from feeling in over her head to feeling ready to keep working toward a college degree.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And she is having fun. On the playground, one of the kids had the idea to trace another with sidewalk chalk, working on their pencil grip as much as they were playing. Except it wasn’t just the other kids: They traced Aguilar, too. When it was time to go back inside, powdery green and pink lines crisscrossed the back of her brown pants and black blouse. She wasn’t bothered.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I love the kids,” she said. “They always make me laugh.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Aguilar has even picked up skills that she uses with her own children, something many apprentices describe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, she sometimes says to her youngest daughter, “Catch a bubble.” That’s preschool speak for “Be quiet.” When a teacher needs the toddlers’ attention, kids hear this phrase, then fill their cheeks with air.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Most of the time, at home and at work, a brief silence follows. Then the kids look up, ready to hear what comes next.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Contact staff writer \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://hechingerreport.org/author/nirvi-shah/\">\u003cem>Nirvi Shah\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem> at \u003c/em>\u003cem>212-678-3445, on Signal at NirviShah.14\u003c/em>\u003cem> or \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"mailto:shah@hechingerreport.org\">\u003cem>shah@hechingerreport.org\u003c/em>\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Reporting on this story was supported by the \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://citizensandscholars.org/fellowships/higher-ed-media-fellowship/\">\u003cem>Higher Ed Media Fellowship\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story about \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://hechingerreport.org/one-city-finding-early-educators/\">\u003cem>preschool teachers\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem> was produced by \u003c/em>The Hechinger Report\u003cem>, a nonprofit, independent news organization focused on inequality and innovation in education. Sign up for \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://hechingerreport.org/earlychildhood/\">\u003cem>the Hechinger newsletter\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "if-you-want-students-to-learn-dont-tell-them-pay-attention-try-this-instead",
"title": "If You Want Students to Learn, Don’t Tell Them 'Pay Attention!' Try This Instead",
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"headTitle": "If You Want Students to Learn, Don’t Tell Them ‘Pay Attention!’ Try This Instead | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>Teaching is nearly impossible to do when \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63519/distracted-students-understanding-these-3-myths-of-attention-span-can-help\">students aren’t paying attention\u003c/a>, especially when there are distractions like \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/65885/school-cellphone-bans-can-help-kids-learn-but-black-students-suspended-at-higher-rates\">smart phones\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/46824/what-types-of-sound-experiences-enable-children-to-learn-best\">other students and hallway banter\u003c/a>. It’s easy to get frustrated, but \u003ca href=\"https://www.learningandthebrain.com/education-speakers/Andrew-Watson\">Andrew Watson\u003c/a> wants to shift the blame away from students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s no attention center in the brain,” said Watson who is a teacher and author of \u003ca href=\"https://www.hachettelearning.com/teaching-strategies/the-goldilocks-map-a-classroom-teacher-s-quest-to-evaluate-brain-based-teaching-advice\">several books\u003c/a> about learning. “Attention is a behavior that students do when three other mental processes are happening correctly.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He spoke directly to teachers in attendance at Learning & the Brain’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.learningandthebrain.com/education-speakers/Andrew-Watson\">Teaching Stronger Brains conference\u003c/a> earlier this year about helping students pay attention better in class. He said the onus to engage students’ attention falls on classroom teachers like him, and the key is to minimize as many distractions as possible, while implementing teaching strategies with a full understanding of attention, memory and motivation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Almost any teacher will tell you that telling students to pay attention doesn’t work,” Watson informed me. Being told to “pay attention” isn’t specific enough, and the response from students will only last for a short amount of time because of that, he continued.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Watson identified the \u003ca href=\"https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8073862/#:~:text=Attention%20involves%20three%20functionally%20and,vigilance%20(ANTI%2DV).\">three mental processes of attention\u003c/a> as alertness, orienting and executive control. A student can have too much or too little alertness — like running around or being sleepy. Orienting has to do with focusing on a specific task, and can be disrupted by distraction caused by outside stimuli. Executive control is complex because it requires students to choose to \u003ca href=\"https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7367701/#:~:text=Effortful%20control%20is%20considered%20to,there%20are%20competing%20desires%20%28activation\">focus on a task in front of them\u003c/a> over distractions that might surround them.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>‘Memory is the Residue of Thought’\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Watson likes to think about memory as “\u003ca href=\"https://www.aft.org/sites/default/files/willingham_0.pdf\">the residue of thought\u003c/a>,” an idea developed by psychologist Daniel Willingham. And because memories are reinforced by thinking about an idea over and over again, it would make sense that part of a teachers’ job is to facilitate that process.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The more you know about a subject, the easier it is to build upon it and learn more about it, so there is a reciprocal relationship between learning, memory and attention, said Watson.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As a teacher, his role is to support memory building through assessment planning and reviews. Why? The likelihood that students will both be able to learn and also monitor their own attentiveness is nil, he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s easy to blame students for their shortcomings in attention and memory, but in reality “learning is actually very hard and takes up somewhere between most of and all of the cognitive resources that my students actually have,” said Watson. For example, if his students are learning how to craft topic sentences, they need to think about how to do this difficult task, and not think about how to stay on task — that’s something Watson can help them do.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Helpful Attention Strategies for the Classroom\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://theeffortfuleducator.com/blake-harvard/\">High school teacher Blake Harvard\u003c/a> scaffolds self-assessment into the learning process in his AP psychology class.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He uses simple assessments – like asking students what they learned the previous day or even five minutes ago – to clue him in to what class material students are struggling to remember or learn. Frequency of these information recall opportunities help the lessons stick.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>An assessment is a learning opportunity, Harvard said, and “retrieving information — pulling that memory out — and using it itself strengthens that memory.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Harvard believes that teaching should center memory and that students need to think critically about the way that they take in and retrieve information. His new book, \u003ca href=\"https://www.routledge.com/Do-I-Have-Your-Attention-Understanding-Memory-Constraints-and-Maximizing-Learning/Harvard/p/book/9781032750279?srsltid=AfmBOoo6nFeLId1SOjgd0TFNRnZChOOqckvO9OuVgAT1fExe5y_Xz3DS\">“Do I Have Your Attention,\u003c/a>” brings the research to teachers in an easy to digest way that has positively contributed to his own classroom practices.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In order to maintain his students’ attention, Harvard has them face the front of the classroom, even when the classroom furniture doesn’t easily support that configuration. His students currently sit at tables, not individual desks, so he had to get creative to get everyone facing forward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Decorations are also kept to a minimum in Harvard’s classroom, and those that remain all have to do with the subject matter of his classes. But “it’s not completely bleak,” he said. Cellphones are away at all times during the school day, and he also encourages his students to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63759/why-writing-by-hand-beats-typing-for-thinking-and-learning\">take notes\u003c/a> with pencil on paper, instead of transcribing on a computer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Common classroom practices like movement can be helpful to engage students’ attention and memory retention, and the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/58051/how-movement-and-gestures-can-improve-student-learning\">benefits of movement\u003c/a> when learning are well documented. But Watson warned that movement isn’t a cure all for students’ attention issues. “The point isn’t that movement is a good idea or that movement is bad; it’s a really useful solution to an alertness problem, but it might make an orienting problem worse,” said Watson.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So, if a student is falling asleep in Watson’s class, he might resort to having that student get up from their desk and do a task, like returning a book to another teacher’s classroom. But if a student seems to be distracted by a soccer game outside the classroom window and their focus is diverted away from the lesson — an orienting and executive control issue — “movement might be a bad idea,” said Watson.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Giving students time to think\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/64877/students-wont-always-remember-what-theyve-learned-heres-how-to-help\">Brains forget\u003c/a>, and that’s a normal process of memory, but sometimes students can experience \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/64877/students-wont-always-remember-what-theyve-learned-heres-how-to-help\">retrieval failure\u003c/a>. When his students are struggling with retrieval, Harvard helps by providing context clues or reframing the definition of the concept that they are struggling to remember.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When reviewing material from a previous lesson, Watson takes a simple approach to prompting his students’ memory and memory retrieval. Instead of beginning with a short review of topics from the day before, he asks his students to write down what they learned the previous lesson. He then walks around the classroom and monitors students’ answers. “Now, [students are] practicing by retrieving from their memory rather than my telling them,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If students can’t seem to remember what they learned recently “that’s not their failing, that’s my failing, because I didn’t practice enough. So what I need to remember is to include that thing in more frequent, say, retrieval of practice exercises,” said Watson.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The pressure that teachers face from schools, administrators, and districts surrounding standardized tests can be overwhelming, and students not being able to remember class material can contribute to that stress. However, Watson knows that laying a great foundation in the first half of the year is essential for his students’ long term success.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For example, Watson’s sophomore students need to be able to write great five-paragraph analytical essays by the end of the school year. Instead of following an accelerated pace of teaching, Watson spends all of fall semester on individual sentences and paragraphs. His students often ask him why their class is behind, because their peers in other classes are already writing five-paragraph essays, but Watson reassures them that mastering the individual components of a five-paragraph essay first will make writing longer material easier come spring semester.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As we’re building towards that summative assessment, it’s okay if they don’t know how to do it now. Especially in a cumulative class, the solid foundation is absolutely worth the time it takes to build,” said Watson.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Teaching is nearly impossible to do when \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63519/distracted-students-understanding-these-3-myths-of-attention-span-can-help\">students aren’t paying attention\u003c/a>, especially when there are distractions like \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/65885/school-cellphone-bans-can-help-kids-learn-but-black-students-suspended-at-higher-rates\">smart phones\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/46824/what-types-of-sound-experiences-enable-children-to-learn-best\">other students and hallway banter\u003c/a>. It’s easy to get frustrated, but \u003ca href=\"https://www.learningandthebrain.com/education-speakers/Andrew-Watson\">Andrew Watson\u003c/a> wants to shift the blame away from students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s no attention center in the brain,” said Watson who is a teacher and author of \u003ca href=\"https://www.hachettelearning.com/teaching-strategies/the-goldilocks-map-a-classroom-teacher-s-quest-to-evaluate-brain-based-teaching-advice\">several books\u003c/a> about learning. “Attention is a behavior that students do when three other mental processes are happening correctly.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He spoke directly to teachers in attendance at Learning & the Brain’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.learningandthebrain.com/education-speakers/Andrew-Watson\">Teaching Stronger Brains conference\u003c/a> earlier this year about helping students pay attention better in class. He said the onus to engage students’ attention falls on classroom teachers like him, and the key is to minimize as many distractions as possible, while implementing teaching strategies with a full understanding of attention, memory and motivation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Almost any teacher will tell you that telling students to pay attention doesn’t work,” Watson informed me. Being told to “pay attention” isn’t specific enough, and the response from students will only last for a short amount of time because of that, he continued.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Watson identified the \u003ca href=\"https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8073862/#:~:text=Attention%20involves%20three%20functionally%20and,vigilance%20(ANTI%2DV).\">three mental processes of attention\u003c/a> as alertness, orienting and executive control. A student can have too much or too little alertness — like running around or being sleepy. Orienting has to do with focusing on a specific task, and can be disrupted by distraction caused by outside stimuli. Executive control is complex because it requires students to choose to \u003ca href=\"https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7367701/#:~:text=Effortful%20control%20is%20considered%20to,there%20are%20competing%20desires%20%28activation\">focus on a task in front of them\u003c/a> over distractions that might surround them.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>‘Memory is the Residue of Thought’\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Watson likes to think about memory as “\u003ca href=\"https://www.aft.org/sites/default/files/willingham_0.pdf\">the residue of thought\u003c/a>,” an idea developed by psychologist Daniel Willingham. And because memories are reinforced by thinking about an idea over and over again, it would make sense that part of a teachers’ job is to facilitate that process.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The more you know about a subject, the easier it is to build upon it and learn more about it, so there is a reciprocal relationship between learning, memory and attention, said Watson.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As a teacher, his role is to support memory building through assessment planning and reviews. Why? The likelihood that students will both be able to learn and also monitor their own attentiveness is nil, he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s easy to blame students for their shortcomings in attention and memory, but in reality “learning is actually very hard and takes up somewhere between most of and all of the cognitive resources that my students actually have,” said Watson. For example, if his students are learning how to craft topic sentences, they need to think about how to do this difficult task, and not think about how to stay on task — that’s something Watson can help them do.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Helpful Attention Strategies for the Classroom\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://theeffortfuleducator.com/blake-harvard/\">High school teacher Blake Harvard\u003c/a> scaffolds self-assessment into the learning process in his AP psychology class.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He uses simple assessments – like asking students what they learned the previous day or even five minutes ago – to clue him in to what class material students are struggling to remember or learn. Frequency of these information recall opportunities help the lessons stick.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>An assessment is a learning opportunity, Harvard said, and “retrieving information — pulling that memory out — and using it itself strengthens that memory.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Harvard believes that teaching should center memory and that students need to think critically about the way that they take in and retrieve information. His new book, \u003ca href=\"https://www.routledge.com/Do-I-Have-Your-Attention-Understanding-Memory-Constraints-and-Maximizing-Learning/Harvard/p/book/9781032750279?srsltid=AfmBOoo6nFeLId1SOjgd0TFNRnZChOOqckvO9OuVgAT1fExe5y_Xz3DS\">“Do I Have Your Attention,\u003c/a>” brings the research to teachers in an easy to digest way that has positively contributed to his own classroom practices.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In order to maintain his students’ attention, Harvard has them face the front of the classroom, even when the classroom furniture doesn’t easily support that configuration. His students currently sit at tables, not individual desks, so he had to get creative to get everyone facing forward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Decorations are also kept to a minimum in Harvard’s classroom, and those that remain all have to do with the subject matter of his classes. But “it’s not completely bleak,” he said. Cellphones are away at all times during the school day, and he also encourages his students to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/63759/why-writing-by-hand-beats-typing-for-thinking-and-learning\">take notes\u003c/a> with pencil on paper, instead of transcribing on a computer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Common classroom practices like movement can be helpful to engage students’ attention and memory retention, and the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/58051/how-movement-and-gestures-can-improve-student-learning\">benefits of movement\u003c/a> when learning are well documented. But Watson warned that movement isn’t a cure all for students’ attention issues. “The point isn’t that movement is a good idea or that movement is bad; it’s a really useful solution to an alertness problem, but it might make an orienting problem worse,” said Watson.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So, if a student is falling asleep in Watson’s class, he might resort to having that student get up from their desk and do a task, like returning a book to another teacher’s classroom. But if a student seems to be distracted by a soccer game outside the classroom window and their focus is diverted away from the lesson — an orienting and executive control issue — “movement might be a bad idea,” said Watson.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>Giving students time to think\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/64877/students-wont-always-remember-what-theyve-learned-heres-how-to-help\">Brains forget\u003c/a>, and that’s a normal process of memory, but sometimes students can experience \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/64877/students-wont-always-remember-what-theyve-learned-heres-how-to-help\">retrieval failure\u003c/a>. When his students are struggling with retrieval, Harvard helps by providing context clues or reframing the definition of the concept that they are struggling to remember.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When reviewing material from a previous lesson, Watson takes a simple approach to prompting his students’ memory and memory retrieval. Instead of beginning with a short review of topics from the day before, he asks his students to write down what they learned the previous lesson. He then walks around the classroom and monitors students’ answers. “Now, [students are] practicing by retrieving from their memory rather than my telling them,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If students can’t seem to remember what they learned recently “that’s not their failing, that’s my failing, because I didn’t practice enough. So what I need to remember is to include that thing in more frequent, say, retrieval of practice exercises,” said Watson.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The pressure that teachers face from schools, administrators, and districts surrounding standardized tests can be overwhelming, and students not being able to remember class material can contribute to that stress. However, Watson knows that laying a great foundation in the first half of the year is essential for his students’ long term success.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For example, Watson’s sophomore students need to be able to write great five-paragraph analytical essays by the end of the school year. Instead of following an accelerated pace of teaching, Watson spends all of fall semester on individual sentences and paragraphs. His students often ask him why their class is behind, because their peers in other classes are already writing five-paragraph essays, but Watson reassures them that mastering the individual components of a five-paragraph essay first will make writing longer material easier come spring semester.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As we’re building towards that summative assessment, it’s okay if they don’t know how to do it now. Especially in a cumulative class, the solid foundation is absolutely worth the time it takes to build,” said Watson.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "Many Rural Schools Rely on International Teachers. Trump's Visa Changes Threaten That",
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"content": "\u003cp>Maria Cristina Tomimbang has taught middle school math for 22 years — 18 years in the Philippines and four years in Montana.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s really such a blessing,” she says of her job in the Hardin Public Schools. “I love the community.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hardin, a town of 4,000 about an hour east of Billings and just off the Crow Indian Reservation, is a place that has had trouble attracting teachers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We don’t have candidates,” says Tobin Novasio, the district’s superintendent. Earlier in his career, he says that if he posted an elementary teacher position, at least 20 people would apply. Now, “if we get two, we’re ecstatic.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hardin, like many rural districts, relies on international teachers to fill out its staff. Out of 150 teachers in the district, about 30 are in the U.S. on teaching visas. Many are on \u003ca href=\"https://j1visa.state.gov/teach/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">short-term J1 visas\u003c/a>, with hopes to one day graduate to the longer-term \u003ca href=\"https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/h-1b-specialty-occupations\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">H-1B visa\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, things are about to get even tougher — for the district and for teachers like Tomimbang.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last month, President Trump \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/09/20/nx-s1-5548568/h1b-visa-fee-trump-tech\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">unveiled a plan that requires\u003c/a> employers pay a $100,000 fee for new H-1B visas. In his announcement, Trump specifically called out \u003ca href=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/09/restriction-on-entry-of-certain-nonimmigrant-workers/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">high-paying tech jobs\u003c/a> that he said were filled by too many foreign workers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, the impact on schools and educators will be significant. According to \u003ca href=\"https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/reports/ola_signed_h1b_characteristics_congressional_report_FY24.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">data from the Department of Homeland Security\u003c/a>, more than 20,000 educators are in the country on H-1B visas — the third most common occupation group for the program.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t have a teacher in my district that makes $100,000 a year,” Novasio says. For school districts, “to pay that fee on top of a salary is just gonna kill the H-1B for education.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The change is a blow to \u003ca href=\"https://www.cpr.org/2025/10/03/colorado-schools-impact-trump-visa-fee-international-teachers/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">some districts’ long-term strategy\u003c/a> to keep teachers in classrooms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Many of Hardin’s current teachers are on cultural exchange, or J1 visas; they must go back to their home countries every few years and stay for at least one year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When that happens, Novasio struggles to fill those classrooms. His goal was to transition many of his current teachers to H-1B visas so they could stay three to six years, with options to extend. Now, that option is financially untenable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To further add to the turmoil and uncertainty, the White House earlier this year \u003ca href=\"https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/blog/department-of-state-pauses-visa-interview-for-j-f-and-m-visitors/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">temporarily halted interviews for J1 visa applicants for about a month\u003c/a>, before reinstating the program. The pause made hiring for this year’s gaps even more stressful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite the challenges, would Tomimbang recommend others come to the U.S. to teach, amid the changing immigration landscape? Yes, she says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s worth the wait, it’s worth the time and it’s worth the effort.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>An “unintentional consequence”\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>When asked about the impact of the H-1B proposal on teachers, Taylor Rogers, a White House spokesperson, told NPR that “President Trump promised to put American workers first, and this commonsense action does just that by discouraging companies from spamming the system and driving down American wages.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Novasio isn’t sure that applies to teaching, especially in Hardin. International teachers in his district, he said, earn the same as their domestic counterparts. The salaries are dictated by the teachers union.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The White House, in a statement, also directed NPR to the text of the president’s proclamation — which would allow the Department of Homeland Security to grant exceptions to the fee. It’s unclear whether such an exemption might be granted to schools and school districts. When asked for comment, a DHS spokesperson deferred to the White House.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sasha Pudelski, the director of advocacy for the AASA, an organization representing school superintendents that has been working to navigate the new rule in Washington, says she feels hopeful about that part of the text.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We believe this is an unintentional consequence,” she says. “And we’re doing everything we can to ensure the Department of Homeland Security exempts educators.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, in tandem with the proclamation, the administration released a proposal to change the H-1B visa from a lottery system to a weighted scale that gives preference to the highest earners. The average teacher salary in the state of Montana \u003ca href=\"https://lmi.mt.gov/_docs/Publications/LMI-Pubs/Labor-Market-Publications/24_TeachersPayReport_Final.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">in 2023 was $58,600\u003c/a>, far below what many tech workers earn.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This proposal, Pudelski believes, could be the most harmful for schools and educators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As you might imagine, education is not a particularly lucrative profession,” she says. “So we’re very worried that this could present a more significant long-term barrier to utilizing these visas for educators.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the meantime, Novasio is already on the lookout for new teachers for next year — abroad and at home. He’s working with state officials to create an apprenticeship program for teachers and develop a stronger local pipeline.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>His district already has partnerships with local colleges. “It’s not by a lack of trying that we’re not able to fill these positions.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He hopes people will “have some empathy for those folks that are packing up their lives and coming to our country to help teach our kids.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He says his school system could not function without them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"npr-transcript\">\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Transcript:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When the Trump administration put new restrictions on hiring high-skilled workers from outside the country last month, it focused on how the move would affect the tech industry. NPR’s Sequoia Carrillo reports there may be an unintended consequence in rural school districts by keeping teachers out of classrooms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>SEQUOIA CARRILLO, BYLINE: Hardin, a town of 4,000 about an hour east of Billings, Montana, sits just off the Crow Indian Reservation. It’s a place that has had trouble attracting teachers. Tobin Novasio is the superintendent there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>TOBIN NOVASIO: Fifteen years ago, if I had an elementary ed opening, there was 20 to 25 candidates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>CARRILLO: Now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>NOVASIO: If we get two, we’re ecstatic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>CARRILLO: Hardin, like many rural districts, relies on international teachers to fill out its staff.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>NOVASIO: There’s not American candidates for those jobs. We beat the bushes to try and get folks hired here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>CARRILLO: Out of 150 teachers in the district, about 30 are in the U.S. on visas. Most are from the Philippines. One of them is Maria Cristina Tomimbang, a middle school math teacher with more than 20 years of experience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MARIA CRISTINA TOMIMBANG: It’s really such a blessing. I love being here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>CARRILLO: She’s on a short-term J-1 visa, with hopes to one day graduate to the longer-term H-1B visa that offers more job security and doesn’t require educators to periodically leave the U.S. for a year at a time. But things are about to get tougher for the district and for teachers like Tomimbang. Last month, President Trump unveiled a plan that now requires employers to pay a $100,000 fee for new H-1B visas. In his announcement, Trump specifically called out high-paying tech jobs that he said were filled by too many foreign workers. But Novasio and other educators say the impact on schools will be significant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>NOVASIO: I don’t have a teacher in my district that makes $100,000 a year. So to pay that fee on top of a salary is going to kill the H-1B for education.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>CARRILLO: According to data from the Department of Homeland Security, more than 20,000 educators are in the country on H-1B visas – the third-highest occupation group for the program. When asked about the impact of the proclamation on teachers, Taylor Rogers, a White House spokeswoman, told NPR that, quote, “President Trump promised to put American workers first, and this common-sense action does just that by discouraging companies from spamming the system and driving down American wages.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a statement, the White House also directed NPR to the text of the proclamation, which would allow DHS to grant exceptions to the fee. It’s unclear whether such an exemption might be granted to schools and school districts. When asked for comment, DHS referred NPR back to the White House.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The AASA, an organization representing school superintendents, has been working on navigating the new rule in Washington. Sasha Pudelski, the director of advocacy there, says she feels hopeful about that part of the text.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>SASHA PUDELSKI: We just believe this is an unintentional consequence, and we’re doing everything we can to ensure the Department of Homeland Security exempts educators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>CARRILLO: But in tandem with the proclamation, the administration released a proposal to change the H-1B visa from a lottery system to a weighted scale that gives preference to the highest earners. The average teacher salary in the state of Montana in 2023 was $58,600, far below what many tech workers make. Pudelski worries this proposal could be the most harmful for schools and educators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>PUDELSKI: As you might imagine, education is not a particularly lucrative profession. And so we’re very worried that this could present a more significant long-term barrier to utilizing these visas for educators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>CARRILLO: In Hardin, Montana, meanwhile, Superintendent Novasio hopes people will…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>NOVASIO: Have some empathy for those folks that are packing up their lives and coming to our country to help teach our kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>CARRILLO: He’s already on the lookout for teachers for next year, but he doesn’t know where he’s going to find them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sequoia Carrillo, NPR News.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Maria Cristina Tomimbang has taught middle school math for 22 years — 18 years in the Philippines and four years in Montana.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s really such a blessing,” she says of her job in the Hardin Public Schools. “I love the community.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hardin, a town of 4,000 about an hour east of Billings and just off the Crow Indian Reservation, is a place that has had trouble attracting teachers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We don’t have candidates,” says Tobin Novasio, the district’s superintendent. Earlier in his career, he says that if he posted an elementary teacher position, at least 20 people would apply. Now, “if we get two, we’re ecstatic.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hardin, like many rural districts, relies on international teachers to fill out its staff. Out of 150 teachers in the district, about 30 are in the U.S. on teaching visas. Many are on \u003ca href=\"https://j1visa.state.gov/teach/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">short-term J1 visas\u003c/a>, with hopes to one day graduate to the longer-term \u003ca href=\"https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/h-1b-specialty-occupations\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">H-1B visa\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, things are about to get even tougher — for the district and for teachers like Tomimbang.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last month, President Trump \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/09/20/nx-s1-5548568/h1b-visa-fee-trump-tech\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">unveiled a plan that requires\u003c/a> employers pay a $100,000 fee for new H-1B visas. In his announcement, Trump specifically called out \u003ca href=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/09/restriction-on-entry-of-certain-nonimmigrant-workers/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">high-paying tech jobs\u003c/a> that he said were filled by too many foreign workers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, the impact on schools and educators will be significant. According to \u003ca href=\"https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/reports/ola_signed_h1b_characteristics_congressional_report_FY24.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">data from the Department of Homeland Security\u003c/a>, more than 20,000 educators are in the country on H-1B visas — the third most common occupation group for the program.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t have a teacher in my district that makes $100,000 a year,” Novasio says. For school districts, “to pay that fee on top of a salary is just gonna kill the H-1B for education.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The change is a blow to \u003ca href=\"https://www.cpr.org/2025/10/03/colorado-schools-impact-trump-visa-fee-international-teachers/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">some districts’ long-term strategy\u003c/a> to keep teachers in classrooms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Many of Hardin’s current teachers are on cultural exchange, or J1 visas; they must go back to their home countries every few years and stay for at least one year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When that happens, Novasio struggles to fill those classrooms. His goal was to transition many of his current teachers to H-1B visas so they could stay three to six years, with options to extend. Now, that option is financially untenable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To further add to the turmoil and uncertainty, the White House earlier this year \u003ca href=\"https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/blog/department-of-state-pauses-visa-interview-for-j-f-and-m-visitors/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">temporarily halted interviews for J1 visa applicants for about a month\u003c/a>, before reinstating the program. The pause made hiring for this year’s gaps even more stressful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite the challenges, would Tomimbang recommend others come to the U.S. to teach, amid the changing immigration landscape? Yes, she says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s worth the wait, it’s worth the time and it’s worth the effort.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>An “unintentional consequence”\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>When asked about the impact of the H-1B proposal on teachers, Taylor Rogers, a White House spokesperson, told NPR that “President Trump promised to put American workers first, and this commonsense action does just that by discouraging companies from spamming the system and driving down American wages.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Novasio isn’t sure that applies to teaching, especially in Hardin. International teachers in his district, he said, earn the same as their domestic counterparts. The salaries are dictated by the teachers union.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The White House, in a statement, also directed NPR to the text of the president’s proclamation — which would allow the Department of Homeland Security to grant exceptions to the fee. It’s unclear whether such an exemption might be granted to schools and school districts. When asked for comment, a DHS spokesperson deferred to the White House.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sasha Pudelski, the director of advocacy for the AASA, an organization representing school superintendents that has been working to navigate the new rule in Washington, says she feels hopeful about that part of the text.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We believe this is an unintentional consequence,” she says. “And we’re doing everything we can to ensure the Department of Homeland Security exempts educators.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, in tandem with the proclamation, the administration released a proposal to change the H-1B visa from a lottery system to a weighted scale that gives preference to the highest earners. The average teacher salary in the state of Montana \u003ca href=\"https://lmi.mt.gov/_docs/Publications/LMI-Pubs/Labor-Market-Publications/24_TeachersPayReport_Final.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">in 2023 was $58,600\u003c/a>, far below what many tech workers earn.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This proposal, Pudelski believes, could be the most harmful for schools and educators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As you might imagine, education is not a particularly lucrative profession,” she says. “So we’re very worried that this could present a more significant long-term barrier to utilizing these visas for educators.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the meantime, Novasio is already on the lookout for new teachers for next year — abroad and at home. He’s working with state officials to create an apprenticeship program for teachers and develop a stronger local pipeline.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>His district already has partnerships with local colleges. “It’s not by a lack of trying that we’re not able to fill these positions.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He hopes people will “have some empathy for those folks that are packing up their lives and coming to our country to help teach our kids.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He says his school system could not function without them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"npr-transcript\">\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Transcript:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When the Trump administration put new restrictions on hiring high-skilled workers from outside the country last month, it focused on how the move would affect the tech industry. NPR’s Sequoia Carrillo reports there may be an unintended consequence in rural school districts by keeping teachers out of classrooms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>SEQUOIA CARRILLO, BYLINE: Hardin, a town of 4,000 about an hour east of Billings, Montana, sits just off the Crow Indian Reservation. It’s a place that has had trouble attracting teachers. Tobin Novasio is the superintendent there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>TOBIN NOVASIO: Fifteen years ago, if I had an elementary ed opening, there was 20 to 25 candidates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>CARRILLO: Now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>NOVASIO: If we get two, we’re ecstatic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>CARRILLO: Hardin, like many rural districts, relies on international teachers to fill out its staff.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>NOVASIO: There’s not American candidates for those jobs. We beat the bushes to try and get folks hired here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>CARRILLO: Out of 150 teachers in the district, about 30 are in the U.S. on visas. Most are from the Philippines. One of them is Maria Cristina Tomimbang, a middle school math teacher with more than 20 years of experience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MARIA CRISTINA TOMIMBANG: It’s really such a blessing. I love being here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>CARRILLO: She’s on a short-term J-1 visa, with hopes to one day graduate to the longer-term H-1B visa that offers more job security and doesn’t require educators to periodically leave the U.S. for a year at a time. But things are about to get tougher for the district and for teachers like Tomimbang. Last month, President Trump unveiled a plan that now requires employers to pay a $100,000 fee for new H-1B visas. In his announcement, Trump specifically called out high-paying tech jobs that he said were filled by too many foreign workers. But Novasio and other educators say the impact on schools will be significant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>NOVASIO: I don’t have a teacher in my district that makes $100,000 a year. So to pay that fee on top of a salary is going to kill the H-1B for education.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>CARRILLO: According to data from the Department of Homeland Security, more than 20,000 educators are in the country on H-1B visas – the third-highest occupation group for the program. When asked about the impact of the proclamation on teachers, Taylor Rogers, a White House spokeswoman, told NPR that, quote, “President Trump promised to put American workers first, and this common-sense action does just that by discouraging companies from spamming the system and driving down American wages.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a statement, the White House also directed NPR to the text of the proclamation, which would allow DHS to grant exceptions to the fee. It’s unclear whether such an exemption might be granted to schools and school districts. When asked for comment, DHS referred NPR back to the White House.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The AASA, an organization representing school superintendents, has been working on navigating the new rule in Washington. Sasha Pudelski, the director of advocacy there, says she feels hopeful about that part of the text.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>SASHA PUDELSKI: We just believe this is an unintentional consequence, and we’re doing everything we can to ensure the Department of Homeland Security exempts educators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>CARRILLO: But in tandem with the proclamation, the administration released a proposal to change the H-1B visa from a lottery system to a weighted scale that gives preference to the highest earners. The average teacher salary in the state of Montana in 2023 was $58,600, far below what many tech workers make. Pudelski worries this proposal could be the most harmful for schools and educators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>PUDELSKI: As you might imagine, education is not a particularly lucrative profession. And so we’re very worried that this could present a more significant long-term barrier to utilizing these visas for educators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>CARRILLO: In Hardin, Montana, meanwhile, Superintendent Novasio hopes people will…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>NOVASIO: Have some empathy for those folks that are packing up their lives and coming to our country to help teach our kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>CARRILLO: He’s already on the lookout for teachers for next year, but he doesn’t know where he’s going to find them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sequoia Carrillo, NPR News.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_65821\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1290px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-65821\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/IMG_8561.jpg\" alt=\"Teen opening record player with crate of records at his feet.\" width=\"1290\" height=\"2275\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/IMG_8561.jpg 1290w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/IMG_8561-160x282.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/IMG_8561-768x1354.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/IMG_8561-871x1536.jpg 871w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/IMG_8561-1161x2048.jpg 1161w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1290px) 100vw, 1290px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Student Shane Solis plays a record at The Mix, the teen-only section of the San Francisco Public Library main branch. \u003ccite>(Ki Sung/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Public libraries have made significant transformations over the past decade to better serve community needs in the wake of technological and social change. Now, as public school funding faces an uncertain future, how will libraries step in? We’ll talk to some library kids who go to teen-only spaces after school and hear about how librarians are working hard to meet their needs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC3269390167\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: Welcome to the MindShift Podcast where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Ki Sung.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In San Francisco, there is a really cool place where teens love to hang out; no parents are allowed. There is no fee for admission but you gotta be checked in. What is this place?\u003cbr>\nIt’s \u003ca href=\"https://sfpl.org/teens/the-mix\">The Mix,\u003c/a> the teen only space inside the main branch of the San Francisco Public Library.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Student Maelynn likes the hands-on activities\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Maelynn: \u003c/strong>I just paint a canvas or I make, like, some bracelets, which is really cool to me. And then also, they have, like, video games, which is cool because I love playing Mario Kart.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: 14-year-old Adam likes to make online content, after he finishes his homework, of course.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Adam: \u003c/strong>I just record gameplay sometimes with my voice and it’s really fun because I’m pretty good at it, but and the games I like to play just makes me happy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Maelynn: \u003c/strong>Like I don’t ever hear nobody say like oh We’re gonna hang out at library. It’s just be like, oh, I’m gonna hang out at The Mix but also not many people know about The Mix.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: The Mix has its own entrance on the second floor of the library. Inside there’s everything you can imagine to foster creativity. There’s a room with 3-d printers, sewing machines, mannequins and cabinets full of art supplies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are two soundproof rooms with instruments where teens can make studio quality music recordings, podcasts or make green screen videos. There are tables for playing games like dungeons and dragons, a “carpet garden” lounge area for chilling or scrolling on phones; nooks with seating for large and small groups; a row of computers for playing video games; and of course bookshelves full of manga.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While I’m there, I see teens occupying every section of The Mix doing activities or just happily hanging out\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On today’s episode of the MindShift Podcast, you’ll hear about how three libraries have transformed their services to create third spaces, that are neither home nor school, where teens can flourish. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: In order to understand The Mix in San Francisco, you have to go back in time to 2009 in Chicago.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: That was when Chicago Public Libraries embarked on a bold plan through a program called YOUMedia. It was part of a broader initiative called \u003ca href=\"https://www.macfound.org/programs/pastwork/learning/\">Digital Media and Learning\u003c/a>. YOUMedia was designed to give students access to tech and digital media while in a safe environment with trusted adult mentors. Remember, this was in an era when there were fewer computers with WiFi at home for kids, so having these services at libraries made a lot of sense.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The idea was to lean into tech and build a bridge between letting teens do what they want, and making sure teens are in a positive environment. And it was a really new idea at the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In order to teach digital media skills, educators tried a structured curriculum similar to school but found that that wasn’t widely popular with youth.\u003cbr>\nSo they rolled out workshop models that teens could explore at their own pace.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Eric Brown who helped conduct research about YOUmedia’s impact, explained how staff gets teens to engage with technology, during a 2013 seminar:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Eric Brown:\u003c/strong> they’re not forcing it down your throat. It’s a good place that gives you the option. You can pursue it or you can just chill. And you pursue it when you’re ready. And that’s very much the ethos of teens who go to YOU media.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>:The YOUmedia model was so successful that the Chicago Public Library system expanded it to \u003ca href=\"https://www.chipublib.org/programs-and-partnerships/youmedia/\">29 branch locations\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Other library systems around the country soon followed their example.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But teens will always keep you on your toes. So being on the look out for what they need is something librarians are always focused on. And in New York, they saw one of those needs emerge recently. Here’s Siva Ramakrishnan, director of young adult services at the New York Public Library.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Siva Ramakrishnan: \u003c/strong>The pandemic really like brought into sharp relief the need for spaces where teens can build community again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Siva Ramakrishnan: \u003c/strong>After all of that isolation, you know, it was such a difficult and weird and for many teens like traumatic time, right? And so at NYPL, we have done a number of things.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nSiva Ramakrishnan: \u003c/strong>So one is that we have really invested in our spaces. This is kind of a, you know, historically a trend in libraries nationwide is that often there isn’t a space that is actually reserved for teenagers, right? Just historically there might be a general children’s area and that tends to skew, fairly young and adorable, right? But then there’s an adult area, right? And that tends to be very quiet with adults who are like in deep focus, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Siva Ramakrishnan: So we have really engaged in work over the past few years in carving out spaces in our libraries that are for teens.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: What’s important is that the library isn’t just a space, but offers programming. \u003ca href=\"https://www.nypl.org/blog/2024/05/01/siva-ramakrishnan-and-steven-mahoney-receive-movers-shakers-honor-library-journal\">And in the new york public library’s teen centers, that are in several branches all over the city, they focus on\u003c/a> programs that teach civic engagement, college and career readiness along with cool things like how to run a 3d printer or facilitate a banned book club, or how to organize fashion design boot camps.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Siva Ramakrishnan:\u003c/strong> We actually see a ton of teens across our libraries. NYPL has like over 90 neighborhood libraries. And like last school year in summer, we saw almost 120,000 teens who chose after a super long day at school to come to the library to their local branch and to participate in an after school program.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: Critics of teen spaces that focus on things other than literacy can take heart because there’s one really fascinating upside about the teens in New York. According to Ramakrishnan, they’re not only coming to the library more, these teens actually read more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Doreen:\u003c/strong> Hmm, There are so many types of different media that we consume now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: That’s Doreen, a New York Public Library student ambassador whose job is to tutor kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Doreen: \u003c/strong>I think that people perceive reading only as books or physical books. I know a lot of people who read on their Kindles or me personally, I have a heavy book bag. I take my iPad and I download a PDF of my book or my textbook and I read through there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MUSIC\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: It turns out, being IN a library can help facilitate reading even if your original reason for showing up is totally unrelated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: Back in San Francisco at The Mix, student library ambassador Shane Macias considers his current relationship with reading.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shane: \u003c/strong>Like I’ve checked out books and taken books that were there, they get for free. I read them at home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: The Mix really reinvented what a library could be to its community. But when it started about a decade ago, the concept behind a teen space also ran counter to a traditional understanding of libraries as a place that houses books.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Eric Hannan: \u003c/strong>Some people were against this project in the community and voiced concern, like this sounds like a rec center and a daycare center for teenagers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: That’s Eric Hannan, a librarian who helped start The Mix.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Eric Hannan: \u003c/strong>And I’ve worked in libraries 35 years, that isn’t what libraries are supposed to do, but often it ends up being part of your job that you have what we used to call latchkey kids in the library after school, they have nowhere to go, both parents working or single parent working, they go chill in the libraries. So they’re gonna be there anyway, so we might as well kind of cater to that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: In order to cater to teens, the library got input from them. \u003ca href=\"https://youmedia.org/blog/in-san-francisco-teens-design-a-living-room-for-high-tech-learning-at-the-public-library/\">a board of advising youth (bay) weighed in and designed the San Francisco space around the idea of HoMaGo (ho-mah-go), an acronum for hang out, mess around, geek out. This board got final say on specific aspects of the space\u003c/a> like furniture preferences, programming and they even advocated for a dedicated bathroom in the mix. For Shane, a teen-designed space fits the bill.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nShane:\u003c/strong> I’d say to have space like this is very important because for me, in school and other libraries I’ve went to, I was either stuck with adults or little kids, which wasn’t uncomfortable, but it’s like, I wasn’t around people my age, so it felt really awkward and I guess did feel uncomfortable. It just kind of bothered me why the teens don’t have many places to go. Like, obviously we can go chill at the park or go back home but sometimes maybe we want more, I’d say.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: It turns out, as more libraries act as community centers for teens, they are meeting needs that schools, among other institutions, are unable to serve.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Eric Hannan: \u003c/strong>The Library has a big role to play in helping teens in particular adapt to stress, stressors in life, be they political or, you know, biological COVID or just developmental. They’re just going through a unique time that is very short in their life, six or seven-ish years. And there’s a lot libraries can do to help ease some of the pain.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: The MindShift team includes me, Ki Sung, Nimah Gobir, Marlena Jackson-Retondo and Marnette Federis. Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer. Jen Chien is our head of podcasts. Katie Sprenger is podcast operations manager and Ethan Toven Lindsey is our editor in chief. We receive additional support from Maha Sanad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William & Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Thanks for listening to MindShift.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_65821\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1290px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-65821\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/IMG_8561.jpg\" alt=\"Teen opening record player with crate of records at his feet.\" width=\"1290\" height=\"2275\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/IMG_8561.jpg 1290w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/IMG_8561-160x282.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/IMG_8561-768x1354.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/IMG_8561-871x1536.jpg 871w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2025/09/IMG_8561-1161x2048.jpg 1161w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1290px) 100vw, 1290px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Student Shane Solis plays a record at The Mix, the teen-only section of the San Francisco Public Library main branch. \u003ccite>(Ki Sung/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Public libraries have made significant transformations over the past decade to better serve community needs in the wake of technological and social change. Now, as public school funding faces an uncertain future, how will libraries step in? We’ll talk to some library kids who go to teen-only spaces after school and hear about how librarians are working hard to meet their needs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC3269390167\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: Welcome to the MindShift Podcast where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Ki Sung.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In San Francisco, there is a really cool place where teens love to hang out; no parents are allowed. There is no fee for admission but you gotta be checked in. What is this place?\u003cbr>\nIt’s \u003ca href=\"https://sfpl.org/teens/the-mix\">The Mix,\u003c/a> the teen only space inside the main branch of the San Francisco Public Library.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Student Maelynn likes the hands-on activities\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Maelynn: \u003c/strong>I just paint a canvas or I make, like, some bracelets, which is really cool to me. And then also, they have, like, video games, which is cool because I love playing Mario Kart.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: 14-year-old Adam likes to make online content, after he finishes his homework, of course.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Adam: \u003c/strong>I just record gameplay sometimes with my voice and it’s really fun because I’m pretty good at it, but and the games I like to play just makes me happy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Maelynn: \u003c/strong>Like I don’t ever hear nobody say like oh We’re gonna hang out at library. It’s just be like, oh, I’m gonna hang out at The Mix but also not many people know about The Mix.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: The Mix has its own entrance on the second floor of the library. Inside there’s everything you can imagine to foster creativity. There’s a room with 3-d printers, sewing machines, mannequins and cabinets full of art supplies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are two soundproof rooms with instruments where teens can make studio quality music recordings, podcasts or make green screen videos. There are tables for playing games like dungeons and dragons, a “carpet garden” lounge area for chilling or scrolling on phones; nooks with seating for large and small groups; a row of computers for playing video games; and of course bookshelves full of manga.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While I’m there, I see teens occupying every section of The Mix doing activities or just happily hanging out\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On today’s episode of the MindShift Podcast, you’ll hear about how three libraries have transformed their services to create third spaces, that are neither home nor school, where teens can flourish. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: In order to understand The Mix in San Francisco, you have to go back in time to 2009 in Chicago.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: That was when Chicago Public Libraries embarked on a bold plan through a program called YOUMedia. It was part of a broader initiative called \u003ca href=\"https://www.macfound.org/programs/pastwork/learning/\">Digital Media and Learning\u003c/a>. YOUMedia was designed to give students access to tech and digital media while in a safe environment with trusted adult mentors. Remember, this was in an era when there were fewer computers with WiFi at home for kids, so having these services at libraries made a lot of sense.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The idea was to lean into tech and build a bridge between letting teens do what they want, and making sure teens are in a positive environment. And it was a really new idea at the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In order to teach digital media skills, educators tried a structured curriculum similar to school but found that that wasn’t widely popular with youth.\u003cbr>\nSo they rolled out workshop models that teens could explore at their own pace.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Eric Brown who helped conduct research about YOUmedia’s impact, explained how staff gets teens to engage with technology, during a 2013 seminar:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Eric Brown:\u003c/strong> they’re not forcing it down your throat. It’s a good place that gives you the option. You can pursue it or you can just chill. And you pursue it when you’re ready. And that’s very much the ethos of teens who go to YOU media.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>:The YOUmedia model was so successful that the Chicago Public Library system expanded it to \u003ca href=\"https://www.chipublib.org/programs-and-partnerships/youmedia/\">29 branch locations\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Other library systems around the country soon followed their example.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But teens will always keep you on your toes. So being on the look out for what they need is something librarians are always focused on. And in New York, they saw one of those needs emerge recently. Here’s Siva Ramakrishnan, director of young adult services at the New York Public Library.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Siva Ramakrishnan: \u003c/strong>The pandemic really like brought into sharp relief the need for spaces where teens can build community again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Siva Ramakrishnan: \u003c/strong>After all of that isolation, you know, it was such a difficult and weird and for many teens like traumatic time, right? And so at NYPL, we have done a number of things.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nSiva Ramakrishnan: \u003c/strong>So one is that we have really invested in our spaces. This is kind of a, you know, historically a trend in libraries nationwide is that often there isn’t a space that is actually reserved for teenagers, right? Just historically there might be a general children’s area and that tends to skew, fairly young and adorable, right? But then there’s an adult area, right? And that tends to be very quiet with adults who are like in deep focus, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Siva Ramakrishnan: So we have really engaged in work over the past few years in carving out spaces in our libraries that are for teens.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: What’s important is that the library isn’t just a space, but offers programming. \u003ca href=\"https://www.nypl.org/blog/2024/05/01/siva-ramakrishnan-and-steven-mahoney-receive-movers-shakers-honor-library-journal\">And in the new york public library’s teen centers, that are in several branches all over the city, they focus on\u003c/a> programs that teach civic engagement, college and career readiness along with cool things like how to run a 3d printer or facilitate a banned book club, or how to organize fashion design boot camps.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Siva Ramakrishnan:\u003c/strong> We actually see a ton of teens across our libraries. NYPL has like over 90 neighborhood libraries. And like last school year in summer, we saw almost 120,000 teens who chose after a super long day at school to come to the library to their local branch and to participate in an after school program.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: Critics of teen spaces that focus on things other than literacy can take heart because there’s one really fascinating upside about the teens in New York. According to Ramakrishnan, they’re not only coming to the library more, these teens actually read more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Doreen:\u003c/strong> Hmm, There are so many types of different media that we consume now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: That’s Doreen, a New York Public Library student ambassador whose job is to tutor kids.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Doreen: \u003c/strong>I think that people perceive reading only as books or physical books. I know a lot of people who read on their Kindles or me personally, I have a heavy book bag. I take my iPad and I download a PDF of my book or my textbook and I read through there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>MUSIC\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: It turns out, being IN a library can help facilitate reading even if your original reason for showing up is totally unrelated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: Back in San Francisco at The Mix, student library ambassador Shane Macias considers his current relationship with reading.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Shane: \u003c/strong>Like I’ve checked out books and taken books that were there, they get for free. I read them at home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: The Mix really reinvented what a library could be to its community. But when it started about a decade ago, the concept behind a teen space also ran counter to a traditional understanding of libraries as a place that houses books.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Eric Hannan: \u003c/strong>Some people were against this project in the community and voiced concern, like this sounds like a rec center and a daycare center for teenagers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: That’s Eric Hannan, a librarian who helped start The Mix.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Eric Hannan: \u003c/strong>And I’ve worked in libraries 35 years, that isn’t what libraries are supposed to do, but often it ends up being part of your job that you have what we used to call latchkey kids in the library after school, they have nowhere to go, both parents working or single parent working, they go chill in the libraries. So they’re gonna be there anyway, so we might as well kind of cater to that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: In order to cater to teens, the library got input from them. \u003ca href=\"https://youmedia.org/blog/in-san-francisco-teens-design-a-living-room-for-high-tech-learning-at-the-public-library/\">a board of advising youth (bay) weighed in and designed the San Francisco space around the idea of HoMaGo (ho-mah-go), an acronum for hang out, mess around, geek out. This board got final say on specific aspects of the space\u003c/a> like furniture preferences, programming and they even advocated for a dedicated bathroom in the mix. For Shane, a teen-designed space fits the bill.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nShane:\u003c/strong> I’d say to have space like this is very important because for me, in school and other libraries I’ve went to, I was either stuck with adults or little kids, which wasn’t uncomfortable, but it’s like, I wasn’t around people my age, so it felt really awkward and I guess did feel uncomfortable. It just kind of bothered me why the teens don’t have many places to go. Like, obviously we can go chill at the park or go back home but sometimes maybe we want more, I’d say.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: It turns out, as more libraries act as community centers for teens, they are meeting needs that schools, among other institutions, are unable to serve.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Eric Hannan: \u003c/strong>The Library has a big role to play in helping teens in particular adapt to stress, stressors in life, be they political or, you know, biological COVID or just developmental. They’re just going through a unique time that is very short in their life, six or seven-ish years. And there’s a lot libraries can do to help ease some of the pain.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ki Sung\u003c/strong>: The MindShift team includes me, Ki Sung, Nimah Gobir, Marlena Jackson-Retondo and Marnette Federis. Our editor is Chris Hambrick. Seth Samuel is our sound designer. Jen Chien is our head of podcasts. Katie Sprenger is podcast operations manager and Ethan Toven Lindsey is our editor in chief. We receive additional support from Maha Sanad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>MindShift is supported in part by the generosity of the William & Flora Hewlett Foundation and members of KQED.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Thanks for listening to MindShift.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"content": "\u003cp>Remember the recorder? It’s that small plastic instrument — looks kind of like a flute or clarinet — that’s often the first instrument children learn to play in school. Or, at least, they used to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A \u003ca href=\"https://www.abrsm.org/sites/default/files/2025-04/Making%20Music%202025%20-%20Extending%20our%20Ambition%20for%20Music%20Education%20in%20the%20UK.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">recent report\u003c/a> found that the number of kids learning the recorder has declined over the years in schools in the United Kingdom. Teachers in the U.S. \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/05/11/nx-s1-5391541/recorders-the-woodwind-music-instruments-are-on-the-decline-in-british-classrooms\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">say the instrument’s popularity has declined here\u003c/a>, too, due to \u003ca href=\"https://nafme.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/NAfME_NFHS-Guidance-for-Fall-2020-August-21-Version-4.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">COVID-era restrictions\u003c/a> and the rise of popular alternatives like the \u003ca href=\"https://nafme.org/blog/why-try-the-ukulele-in-schools/?utm_source=chatgpt.com\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">ukulele\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But at Parkside Elementary in Atlanta, the tradition is still going strong. In fact, when Parkside’s band teacher, Phillip Edwards, tells his second-graders it’s time to take out their recorders, the classroom buzzes with excitement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s like a pep rally,” says Edwards. He’s only taught them five notes so far, but those five notes add up to a lot of songs: “Three Blind Mice,” “Mary Had a Little Lamb” and that old earworm “Hot Cross Buns.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He has even taught them Survivor’s “Eye of the Tiger.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The song has been a hit with his second-graders. Daisy Lee, 8, says, in fact, it’s her favorite song she’s learned. “It’s an easy song, and I like the rhythm and beat,” says Daisy, who added that her older brother really likes the ’80s stadium rock hit as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>The perfect teaching tool\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Like generations of educators who came before him, Edwards uses the recorder to teach young students about the fundamentals of music, such as how to focus, how to breathe and how to recognize a certain note by sound.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Evidently, it’s a job the recorder is well suited for.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s really no other instrument, other than maybe the keyboard, where it is so easy for a beginner to actually make a sound,” says Michael Lynn, professor of recorder and baroque flute at Oberlin College and Conservatory in Ohio.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s especially easier to play than its fellow woodwinds like the saxophone and the flute, he says, because both require you to form your lips a certain way to produce a sound. With the recorder, all you have to do is blow into the mouthpiece on top, like a whistle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s also cheap, and the size is just right, says Karen Dolezal, a former music teacher at Athens Montessori School in Athens, Ga., who’s now retired. “It’s a small, portable instrument that small hands can master,” she explains.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Both educators say it’s great for teaching kids how to read music. Unlike the guitar, which is written in its own language of chords, or the piano, which typically involves reading and playing multiple lines of musical annotation at once, the recorder only requires you to read and play one line at a time. That allows kids to quickly get the hang of songs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Brady Gerber, a music journalist based in Los Angeles, learned the recorder in school in the early 2000s. He remembers his simple delight at how easy the instrument was to play.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The recorder was amazing because I could actually play music,” recalls Gerber. “I could learn a song relatively easily.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The recorder also helped him navigate the early days of his autism. “It was weirdly empowering,” he says. “I didn’t have to work extra hard to do something. I didn’t feel like an outsider.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Still, the recorder isn’t without its difficulties. One issue in particular is its holes. There are seven on the front and one on the back. Producing different sounds with them requires covering specific holes with your thumb and fingers. It can get a little tricky.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“‘[The recorder] is a very sensitive instrument,” says Edwards, the music teacher in Georgia. He actually purchased and practiced on his own recorder first so he could confidently teach his students how to play:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If your fingers aren’t covering the holes 100%, the right note will not come out.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Eight-year-old Daisy agrees. “Sometimes I just get the notes out wrong because I don’t cover the hole all the way,” she says. “It can be a challenge, but it’s supposed to be a challenge, so that’s a good thing.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>From the Renaissance to the classroom \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>While there are good reasons the recorder ended up as the go-to instrument for elementary school students, it didn’t start out that way. Its rise actually dates back to the 15th century, when it was the instrument \u003cem>du jour\u003c/em> during the Renaissance, and not just among 8-year-olds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was very often played in consorts,” says Lynn, the music historian, referring to \u003ca href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consort_of_instruments\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">a type of instrumental ensemble\u003c/a> popular during those times. “So you would have recorders of different sizes all playing together. An alto recorder, a tenor recorder and a bass recorder.” (The recorder that kids play in school is actually the soprano version.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One major fan of the recorder in its Renaissance reign? Henry VIII. The Tudor king was also a musician and composer, and he wrote several songs specifically for the instrument.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw59KAcObFI\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">King Henry VIII — Two Compositions for Recorders 1540\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Eventually, its popularity began to wane. “Around roughly 1740, 1750, the recorder kind of started going out of style,” says Lynn. It was supplanted by the transverse flute (that’s the one you hold sideways), which remained the flute of choice until the early 20th century.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s when a French-born instrument-maker named Arnold Dolmetsch sparked a recorder revival. He began promoting it as an instrument for teaching music in schools.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dolmetsch and Carl Orff, the influential music educator and German composer behind \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEllLECo4OM\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">“Carmina Burana,”\u003c/a> are largely responsible for the recorder ending up in so many classrooms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Well, them and the manufacturing industry.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With the rise of plastic injection molding in the 1940s and ’50s, companies started mass-producing recorders and selling them in bulk to school districts for as little as $1 apiece.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By the early 1960s, says Lynn, the recorder began taking over elementary classrooms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He remembers learning the recorder as a young boy and seeing plastic versions everywhere. “They were very popular,” says Lynn. “That was really the beginning of it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He notes that since his childhood, those plastic recorders have gotten better with improvements in technology and manufacturing.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>A serious instrument \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>More than a half-century later, the recorder remains capable of so much more than “Hot Cross Buns.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s not just a toy,” Dolezal says. “It’s a serious instrument.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lynn agrees: “It is certainly a misunderstood instrument from a public perspective because most people have never heard really fine recorder playing.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s partly because most students in the United States learn the recorder as an introduction to other woodwind instruments and never \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7Y5ZQQLzTI\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">play it at a higher level\u003c/a>. If they did, says Lynn, they would quickly discover how hard it is to master beyond the basics and perhaps take the instrument more seriously.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At Parkside Elementary, it seems like the students already are.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They’re super competitive, super energetic about it,” says Edwards, the band teacher. Some are even determined to surpass him. “They talk about it,” he says. “Here and there they say, ‘Mr. Edwards, I’m gonna be better than you one day.’ “\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Remember the recorder? It’s that small plastic instrument — looks kind of like a flute or clarinet — that’s often the first instrument children learn to play in school. Or, at least, they used to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A \u003ca href=\"https://www.abrsm.org/sites/default/files/2025-04/Making%20Music%202025%20-%20Extending%20our%20Ambition%20for%20Music%20Education%20in%20the%20UK.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">recent report\u003c/a> found that the number of kids learning the recorder has declined over the years in schools in the United Kingdom. Teachers in the U.S. \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/05/11/nx-s1-5391541/recorders-the-woodwind-music-instruments-are-on-the-decline-in-british-classrooms\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">say the instrument’s popularity has declined here\u003c/a>, too, due to \u003ca href=\"https://nafme.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/NAfME_NFHS-Guidance-for-Fall-2020-August-21-Version-4.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">COVID-era restrictions\u003c/a> and the rise of popular alternatives like the \u003ca href=\"https://nafme.org/blog/why-try-the-ukulele-in-schools/?utm_source=chatgpt.com\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">ukulele\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But at Parkside Elementary in Atlanta, the tradition is still going strong. In fact, when Parkside’s band teacher, Phillip Edwards, tells his second-graders it’s time to take out their recorders, the classroom buzzes with excitement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s like a pep rally,” says Edwards. He’s only taught them five notes so far, but those five notes add up to a lot of songs: “Three Blind Mice,” “Mary Had a Little Lamb” and that old earworm “Hot Cross Buns.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He has even taught them Survivor’s “Eye of the Tiger.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The song has been a hit with his second-graders. Daisy Lee, 8, says, in fact, it’s her favorite song she’s learned. “It’s an easy song, and I like the rhythm and beat,” says Daisy, who added that her older brother really likes the ’80s stadium rock hit as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>The perfect teaching tool\u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Like generations of educators who came before him, Edwards uses the recorder to teach young students about the fundamentals of music, such as how to focus, how to breathe and how to recognize a certain note by sound.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Evidently, it’s a job the recorder is well suited for.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s really no other instrument, other than maybe the keyboard, where it is so easy for a beginner to actually make a sound,” says Michael Lynn, professor of recorder and baroque flute at Oberlin College and Conservatory in Ohio.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s especially easier to play than its fellow woodwinds like the saxophone and the flute, he says, because both require you to form your lips a certain way to produce a sound. With the recorder, all you have to do is blow into the mouthpiece on top, like a whistle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s also cheap, and the size is just right, says Karen Dolezal, a former music teacher at Athens Montessori School in Athens, Ga., who’s now retired. “It’s a small, portable instrument that small hands can master,” she explains.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Both educators say it’s great for teaching kids how to read music. Unlike the guitar, which is written in its own language of chords, or the piano, which typically involves reading and playing multiple lines of musical annotation at once, the recorder only requires you to read and play one line at a time. That allows kids to quickly get the hang of songs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Brady Gerber, a music journalist based in Los Angeles, learned the recorder in school in the early 2000s. He remembers his simple delight at how easy the instrument was to play.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The recorder was amazing because I could actually play music,” recalls Gerber. “I could learn a song relatively easily.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The recorder also helped him navigate the early days of his autism. “It was weirdly empowering,” he says. “I didn’t have to work extra hard to do something. I didn’t feel like an outsider.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Still, the recorder isn’t without its difficulties. One issue in particular is its holes. There are seven on the front and one on the back. Producing different sounds with them requires covering specific holes with your thumb and fingers. It can get a little tricky.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“‘[The recorder] is a very sensitive instrument,” says Edwards, the music teacher in Georgia. He actually purchased and practiced on his own recorder first so he could confidently teach his students how to play:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If your fingers aren’t covering the holes 100%, the right note will not come out.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Eight-year-old Daisy agrees. “Sometimes I just get the notes out wrong because I don’t cover the hole all the way,” she says. “It can be a challenge, but it’s supposed to be a challenge, so that’s a good thing.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>From the Renaissance to the classroom \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>While there are good reasons the recorder ended up as the go-to instrument for elementary school students, it didn’t start out that way. Its rise actually dates back to the 15th century, when it was the instrument \u003cem>du jour\u003c/em> during the Renaissance, and not just among 8-year-olds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was very often played in consorts,” says Lynn, the music historian, referring to \u003ca href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consort_of_instruments\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">a type of instrumental ensemble\u003c/a> popular during those times. “So you would have recorders of different sizes all playing together. An alto recorder, a tenor recorder and a bass recorder.” (The recorder that kids play in school is actually the soprano version.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One major fan of the recorder in its Renaissance reign? Henry VIII. The Tudor king was also a musician and composer, and he wrote several songs specifically for the instrument.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw59KAcObFI\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">King Henry VIII — Two Compositions for Recorders 1540\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Eventually, its popularity began to wane. “Around roughly 1740, 1750, the recorder kind of started going out of style,” says Lynn. It was supplanted by the transverse flute (that’s the one you hold sideways), which remained the flute of choice until the early 20th century.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s when a French-born instrument-maker named Arnold Dolmetsch sparked a recorder revival. He began promoting it as an instrument for teaching music in schools.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dolmetsch and Carl Orff, the influential music educator and German composer behind \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEllLECo4OM\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">“Carmina Burana,”\u003c/a> are largely responsible for the recorder ending up in so many classrooms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Well, them and the manufacturing industry.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With the rise of plastic injection molding in the 1940s and ’50s, companies started mass-producing recorders and selling them in bulk to school districts for as little as $1 apiece.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By the early 1960s, says Lynn, the recorder began taking over elementary classrooms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He remembers learning the recorder as a young boy and seeing plastic versions everywhere. “They were very popular,” says Lynn. “That was really the beginning of it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He notes that since his childhood, those plastic recorders have gotten better with improvements in technology and manufacturing.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003cstrong>A serious instrument \u003c/strong>\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>More than a half-century later, the recorder remains capable of so much more than “Hot Cross Buns.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s not just a toy,” Dolezal says. “It’s a serious instrument.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lynn agrees: “It is certainly a misunderstood instrument from a public perspective because most people have never heard really fine recorder playing.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s partly because most students in the United States learn the recorder as an introduction to other woodwind instruments and never \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7Y5ZQQLzTI\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">play it at a higher level\u003c/a>. If they did, says Lynn, they would quickly discover how hard it is to master beyond the basics and perhaps take the instrument more seriously.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At Parkside Elementary, it seems like the students already are.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They’re super competitive, super energetic about it,” says Edwards, the band teacher. Some are even determined to surpass him. “They talk about it,” he says. “Here and there they say, ‘Mr. Edwards, I’m gonna be better than you one day.’ “\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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