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Fired Federal Immigration Judges Speak Out

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The US Immigration & Customs Enforcement building at 630 Sansome Street on Wednesday, Feb. 5, 2020. (Beth LaBerge/KQED)

Airdate: Thursday, October 23 at 9AM

The Trump administration has fired dozens of immigration judges in California seemingly without cause and despite growing backlogs of cases. Judges who lost their jobs say these firings will impede due process for millions of immigrants facing deportation. This comes at a time when federal authorities want to deport millions of people as quickly as possible. We talk with two local immigration judges who have been terminated by the Trump administration about the changes they have seen in our immigration system and what it means for the rule of law in our country.

Guests:

Chloe Dillon, head of criminal immigration defense, San Mateo County Private Defender Program; former federal immigration judge terminated by the Trump administration

Elisa Brasil, attorney, Landerholm Immigration; former federal immigration judge terminated by the Trump administration

Tyche Hendricks, senior editor covering immigration, KQED

Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman, reporter, KQED News

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This partial transcript was computer-generated. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.

Alexis Madrigal: Welcome to Forum. I’m Alexis Madrigal. It seems like the Trump administration is beginning to move new immigration enforcement into our area. From a variety of sources, it’s Customs and Border Patrol agents, and they’re going to be stationed on Coast Guard Island. If you’re not familiar with it, it’s a little island technically in Alameda, but connected to the mainland by a small road that hits the Oakland Embarcadero — a little south of Lake Merritt, a little north of Jingletown and Fruitvale.

When I heard where the CBP agents were headed, it became clear that protesters would target that road leading on and off the island. And indeed, by seven o’clock this morning, there were protesters there. We’re joined first this morning by Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman, who’s on the scene. Azul, thanks so much for joining us.

Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: Good morning, Alexis.

Alexis Madrigal: What’s the scene like there right now?

Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: Right now it’s peaceful. There are about a hundred people walking in a perimeter around the intersection. People have moved their personal cars and are also blocking the road on all three sides leading to the island. Protesters say they’re worried about future encroachments by federal agents.

I will say this protest has some of the whimsy we’ve seen in other cities — I see someone jumping rope in a Wonder Woman costume.

Alexis Madrigal: Any inflatables? Any frogs out there yet?

Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: No inflatables. I haven’t seen any yet.

Alexis Madrigal: Alright. But there were some serious things you heard from protesters this morning, yeah?

Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: Yeah. I got here around 7:45 a.m., and it’s been peaceful since then. But I heard from multiple eyewitnesses about violent clashes between federal agents and protesters earlier. One eyewitness told me that when protesters were trying to block access to the island, one agent ran over a protester’s ankle. Protesters had to shout and get them to back up off that person.

Alexis Madrigal: Oh, jeez.

Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: Another person described watching a local pastor put his hands up and say, “I come in peace,” and a federal agent pointing a pepper ball weapon and shooting a pepper ball point-blank into that person’s face.

Alexis Madrigal: If I were to go there right now, is there access on and off the island? Are federal agents able to move freely?

Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: Absolutely not. There’s a human wall of protesters, and there’s also a line of Coast Guard security forces standing on the ramp to the island — forming a perimeter between the protesters and the island itself.

Alexis Madrigal: Have you talked to protesters about how long they plan to stay?

Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: It seems like people are in this for the long haul. Protesters said this was a rushed response — they only heard this action was happening yesterday. They told me, “We don’t have medical tents, we don’t have supplies, and if federal agents come back, we’ll move because we can’t keep people safe.” But they also said they’re planning to stay as long as it takes to make an impact and deter the federal agents from what they’re here to do.

Alexis Madrigal: Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman, reporter with KQED News — thanks so much for joining us.

Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: You’re welcome.

Alexis Madrigal: Let’s bring on Tyche Hendricks, immigration reporter here. As these reports circulate, local politicians like San Francisco Mayor Daniel Lurie are talking about how they’re preparing their local administrations. Congresswoman Lateefah Simon is posting “know your rights” information in half a dozen languages. And here at the station, we’ve been preparing too — with teams of reporters.

What are you looking at first this morning, Tyche, as you see this response begin?

Tyche Hendricks: Good morning, Alexis. What we’ve seen so far is elected officials — from Governor Newsom to Mayor Lurie in San Francisco, Mayor Barbara Lee in Oakland, and many others — condemning the federal agents’ presence in the Bay Area and the potential that military forces or the National Guard could follow.

Their message has been consistent: this needs to remain peaceful. They’ve seen in other cities how clashes between protesters and law enforcement can become a pretext for sending in the National Guard, and they’re hoping to avoid that.

We’re also watching the advocacy and community response. As Azul mentioned, activists are planning a big rally at the Embarcadero at five o’clock this evening. It’s interesting — last Saturday was the “No Kings” rallies around the Bay Area and across the country. A lot of grassroots organizing went into that through groups like Indivisible and Bay Resistance, so the networks and momentum are already there. I heard there was an organizing call last night with thousands of people from the Bay Area.

Alexis Madrigal: And tomorrow too, right? They’re planning vigils at local libraries?

Tyche Hendricks: Yes — their “day two” plan. And what’s distinct about this approach — the Embarcadero today, the libraries tomorrow — is that they want to make their voices heard without seeking a direct clash. It’s a different kind of strategy. The “No Kings” protests were also peaceful, joyful, and intentionally de-escalated. The question is how long activists can maintain that energy amid anger and fear.

Alexis Madrigal: President Trump has talked about sending troops to the Bay Area. That’s one reason people have been preparing and on edge. But right now, it sounds like it’s Customs and Border Protection agents — not ICE or the National Guard. What do we know about who these people are and what they’re doing?

Tyche Hendricks: That’s right. As far as we know, there’s no military deployment to the Bay Area at the moment, and ICE isn’t involved with this operation. ICE does have a large field office in San Francisco and conducts enforcement all the time, but this specific action involves Customs and Border Protection.

Elected officials and other sources say 60 to 100 Border Patrol agents — a subset of CBP — are here. It’s unusual because Border Patrol typically patrols land borders between ports of entry, not doing interior enforcement, which is ICE’s role. But we’ve seen similar deployments in Los Angeles, Chicago, and now apparently here.

Alexis Madrigal: Do they have jurisdiction?

Tyche Hendricks: They do — particularly because U.S. law grants expanded enforcement powers within 100 miles of a border, including coastlines. The Bay Area qualifies under that rule. Chicago doesn’t, but we do.

Alexis Madrigal: Outside of arrests and detentions, what are some of the other impacts on immigrant communities? I’ve heard reports of people calling out sick and businesses being affected.

Tyche Hendricks: It’s definitely frightening — not just for undocumented immigrants or those with tenuous legal status, but for anyone in mixed-status communities. Businesses are struggling. A source in Los Angeles told me that in more immigrant-heavy neighborhoods, there are fewer taco trucks, less street life — commerce is way down.

A new poll from the California Wellness Foundation this morning found that fear of immigration enforcement is affecting Californians’ well-being: half of respondents said it’s causing anxiety, depression, or worse mental health; half said they know someone facing financial hardship. And these were likely voters, not undocumented people, saying this.

Alexis Madrigal: Right — and as you’ve reported, there are so many mixed-status families. Some members are documented, some aren’t, and enforcement actions often don’t make that distinction.

Tyche Hendricks: Exactly. ProPublica even documented 170 U.S. citizens arrested in some of these raids.

But it’s not all fear — there’s also engagement and solidarity. Alameda County has allocated seven million dollars for legal aid and deportation defense, and the state is funding rapid-response hotlines in every county so people can verify suspected immigration actions.

Alexis Madrigal: We’ve been getting the latest on federal agents coming to Coast Guard Island near Oakland and the local response here with Tyche Hendricks, senior editor covering immigration at the station. Thank you, Tyche.

Tyche Hendricks: Thank you.

Alexis Madrigal: Earlier, you heard from Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman, reporter with KQED News. We’ll be back with two federal immigration judges who were fired by the Trump administration. Stay tuned.

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