A Photographer Documented Black Cowboys Across the U.S. for a New Book
Amy Tan’s Bird Obsession Led to a New Book — and Keeping Mealworms in Her Fridge
Minnie Bell’s New Soul Food Restaurant in the Fillmore Is a Homecoming
A Fremont Filmmaker Is Heading to the Oscars — With His Grandmothers
Franklin From ‘Peanuts’ Gets to Shine in the Spotlight of a New Apple TV+ Special
Chelsea Wolfe Says Witchcraft and Sobriety Informed Her Latest Album
Jay Caspian Kang Loves Bay Area Food — But Isn’t Shy About Bashing It
Sohla El-Waylly Cements Her Starring Role With a Thrilling Debut Cookbook
Fuchsia Dunlop Taught Me How to Cook Chinese Food
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Those performances are some of his fondest memories, but they’re also bittersweet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postid='arts_13939278']That’s because just about everybody else around him was white.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It wasn’t a place that we felt like we belonged,” McClellan told \u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> host \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/people/1018429547/a-martinez\">A Martínez\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Learning about Black rodeos as an adult came as a revelation to him. McClellan spent nearly a decade documenting this unique culture all across the United States.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1200px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2024/04/23/ivan_mcclellan_03_sq-acafa9119030ddf411da2cab26a000dc19d00146.jpg?s=1200&c=75&f=jpeg\" alt=\"Two young Black men seen in a wooded area at dusk, standing on the backs of two horses.\" width=\"1200\" height=\"1200\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Rodney & RJ, McCalla, Ala.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>His forthcoming photobook, \u003ca href=\"https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/eight-seconds-miss-rosen/1144643838?ean=9788862088121\">\u003cem>Eight Seconds: Black Rodeo Culture\u003c/em>\u003c/a>, out April 30, features highlights from that journey. The title refers to the minimum amount of time a rider has to stay on a horse or other livestock in order to register a score during a competition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“All of this beauty and energy and environment just stuck to me,” McClellan said about his first encounter with a Black rodeo. “I saw thousands of Black cowboys and they were doing the Cupid Shuffle in the desert and they were cooking turkey legs. And there were Black folks dressed like traditional cowboys. There were also Black folks riding their horses in Jordans and women riding with their braids blowing behind them and their hands with long acrylic nails clutching the reins.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1200px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2024/04/23/ivan_mcclellan_06_custom-d85e2c1b239ef70972128b1ddd896e5162adf770.jpg?s=1200&c=75&f=jpeg\" alt=\"Two Black men on horses race at high speeds around a sandy arena.\" width=\"1200\" height=\"930\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Riders pass a baton during a Pony Express relay race in Okmulgee, Okla.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>That event, \u003ca href=\"https://www.greencountryok.com/event/roy-leblanc-okmulgee-invitational-rodeo-%26-festival/69/\">the Roy Leblanc Invitational Rodeo in Oklahoma\u003c/a>, is one McClellan has come to dub “the Super Bowl of Black rodeos.” It is the oldest of its kind in the country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postid='arts_13955021']He began posting his photographs of the event online. As his social media audience grew, McClellan was soon traveling the country in search of similar happenings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There are Black cowboys pretty much everywhere. I mean, there are Black cowboys here in Portland, Ore., where I live, which I think is the last place that I would have expected to find them,” said McClellan, who now runs his own rodeo.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I went all the way to Oklahoma to realize that there were cowboys up the road from me who have been there for four generations … You’d be hard pressed to find a part of America where there wasn’t at least some some portion of this culture.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1200px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2024/04/23/ivan_mcclellan_07_custom-0da721f05dccc9141ff2052b7e9719d3d118157d.jpg?s=1200&c=75&f=jpeg\" alt=\"A Black woman in a cowboy hat, shirt and jeans poses inside an industrial enclosure.\" width=\"1200\" height=\"891\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Jadayia Kursh, Okmulgee, Okla.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>It’s a narrative largely shunned by Hollywood and the broader mass culture, where the cowboy is consistently portrayed as a white male, be it John Wayne, Val Kilmer or on TV series like \u003cem>Bonanza\u003c/em> (1959-73) and \u003cem>Gunsmoke\u003c/em> (1955-75).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Up until a few years ago, “I really thought that term [cowboy] was a joke when applied to a Black person,” McClellan said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In fact, the term was once a pejorative for African Americans working on ranches and farms, while white cowboys were known as “cowhands.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1200px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2024/04/23/ivan_mcclellan_08_custom-f5fa59efb45a4fb53276ba52a59684a8cc36fcc9.jpg?s=1200&c=75&f=jpeg\" alt=\"A Black man lies flat along a horse's back, his hat flying off behind him, as he struggles to stay on the bucking horse.\" width=\"1200\" height=\"891\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Patrick Liddell, Las Vegas, Nevada.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>But ultimately, cowboy became “a shorthand for our noblest ideals,” McClellan said. “A lot of these things our popular culture is hesitant to attribute to a Black person. So I think to have a cowboy rushing in, saving the day with a black face just didn’t jibe with the stories that Hollywood was trying to tell. I think it’s erasure. I think it’s at best, laziness, at worst, very intentional and malicious. But I’m excited to see that transforming before my eyes.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Beyoncé’s recent country-influenced album \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9XHMK3nWr4\">\u003cem>Cowboy Carter\u003c/em>\u003c/a> is the latest iteration of that push for change in popular culture. Lil Nas X challenged the country genre in 2018 with his song “\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7qovpFAGrQ\">Old Town Road.\u003c/a>” It became a viral hit after sparking widespread conversations \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2019/04/05/710021098/lil-nas-x-country-musics-unlikely-son-sparks-conversation-on-genre-and-race\">about genre gatekeeping and Black musicians’ place within country culture\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1200px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2024/04/23/ivan_mcclellan_09_custom-d069a736f1be991e2c90579b2e603ca412549042.jpg?s=1200&c=75&f=jpeg\" alt=\"Two young Black men in full cowboy regalia stand behind a fence in a large warehouse, watching the distance intently. An older Black man stands at their side doing the same.\" width=\"1200\" height=\"894\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Bull Riders, Rosenberg, Texas.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“It was a perfect alley-oop. And Beyoncé is hanging on the rim right now,” said McClellan. “Beyoncé is not only revealing Black cowboy culture, but she’s transforming country music forever and tearing down genres in a way that that I don’t think has ever been done.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postid='arts_13939314']For McClellan, there’s now one place where he keeps returning over and over.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As far as cultural impact, there’s nothing like the Roy LeBlanc Invitational Rodeo,” he said. “On the second weekend in August at about 8 p.m. when the sun is going down, everything is gold and all the athletes are filing into the arena for the grand entry. And that is where I like to take photos more than anywhere else on the entire planet.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1200px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2024/04/23/ivan_mcclellan_04_custom-6997682f2f6e5a0d922046c6178e1759c11b9ebd.jpg?s=1200&c=75&f=jpeg\" alt=\"A young Black woman in a fringed red shirt and black cowboy hat decorated with a tiara sits on horseback comfortably holding reins.\" width=\"1200\" height=\"930\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Rodeo Queen, Okmulgee, Okla.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>The broadcast version of this story was produced by \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/people/896256272/lilly-quiroz\">\u003cem>Lilly Quiroz\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>. The digital version was edited by Obed Manuel.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Ivan McClellan’s ‘Eight Seconds: Black Rodeo Culture’ puts Black cowboys — male and female — front and center.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713994287,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":21,"wordCount":842},"headData":{"title":"‘Eight Seconds: Black Rodeo Culture’ Spotlights Black Cowboys | KQED","description":"Ivan McClellan’s ‘Eight Seconds: Black Rodeo Culture’ puts Black cowboys — male and female — front and center.","ogTitle":"A Photographer Documented Black Cowboys Across the U.S. for a New Book","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"A Photographer Documented Black Cowboys Across the U.S. for a New Book","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","socialTitle":"‘Eight Seconds: Black Rodeo Culture’ Spotlights Black Cowboys %%page%% %%sep%% KQED","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"A Photographer Documented Black Cowboys Across the U.S. for a New Book","datePublished":"2024-04-24T19:21:17.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-24T21:31:27.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"sticky":false,"nprStoryId":"1246716227","nprHtmlLink":"https://www.npr.org/2024/04/24/1246716227/black-cowboy-culture-ivan-mcclellan-photographer-8-seconds-book","nprRetrievedStory":"1","nprPubDate":"2024-04-24T05:00:45-04:00","nprStoryDate":"2024-04-24T05:00:45-04:00","nprLastModifiedDate":"2024-04-24T08:35:59-04:00","nprAudio":"https://ondemand.npr.org/anon.npr-mp3/npr/me/2024/04/20240424_me_a_photographer_documented_black_cowboys_across_the_us_for_a_new_book.mp3?d=409&size=6559496&e=1246716227&t=progseg&seg=2&p=3","templateType":"standard","featuredImageType":"standard","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/arts/13956604/black-cowboys-book-review-eight-seconds-rodeo-culture-ivan-mcclellan-photography","audioUrl":"https://ondemand.npr.org/anon.npr-mp3/npr/me/2024/04/20240424_me_a_photographer_documented_black_cowboys_across_the_us_for_a_new_book.mp3?d=409&size=6559496&e=1246716227&t=progseg&seg=2&p=3","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>As a child growing up in Kansas City, Ivan McClellan would sing the national anthem at the \u003ca href=\"https://www.americanroyal.com/rodeo/\">American Royal\u003c/a> rodeo with a youth choir. Those performances are some of his fondest memories, but they’re also bittersweet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"arts_13939278","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>That’s because just about everybody else around him was white.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It wasn’t a place that we felt like we belonged,” McClellan told \u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> host \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/people/1018429547/a-martinez\">A Martínez\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Learning about Black rodeos as an adult came as a revelation to him. McClellan spent nearly a decade documenting this unique culture all across the United States.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1200px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2024/04/23/ivan_mcclellan_03_sq-acafa9119030ddf411da2cab26a000dc19d00146.jpg?s=1200&c=75&f=jpeg\" alt=\"Two young Black men seen in a wooded area at dusk, standing on the backs of two horses.\" width=\"1200\" height=\"1200\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Rodney & RJ, McCalla, Ala.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>His forthcoming photobook, \u003ca href=\"https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/eight-seconds-miss-rosen/1144643838?ean=9788862088121\">\u003cem>Eight Seconds: Black Rodeo Culture\u003c/em>\u003c/a>, out April 30, features highlights from that journey. The title refers to the minimum amount of time a rider has to stay on a horse or other livestock in order to register a score during a competition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“All of this beauty and energy and environment just stuck to me,” McClellan said about his first encounter with a Black rodeo. “I saw thousands of Black cowboys and they were doing the Cupid Shuffle in the desert and they were cooking turkey legs. And there were Black folks dressed like traditional cowboys. There were also Black folks riding their horses in Jordans and women riding with their braids blowing behind them and their hands with long acrylic nails clutching the reins.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1200px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2024/04/23/ivan_mcclellan_06_custom-d85e2c1b239ef70972128b1ddd896e5162adf770.jpg?s=1200&c=75&f=jpeg\" alt=\"Two Black men on horses race at high speeds around a sandy arena.\" width=\"1200\" height=\"930\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Riders pass a baton during a Pony Express relay race in Okmulgee, Okla.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>That event, \u003ca href=\"https://www.greencountryok.com/event/roy-leblanc-okmulgee-invitational-rodeo-%26-festival/69/\">the Roy Leblanc Invitational Rodeo in Oklahoma\u003c/a>, is one McClellan has come to dub “the Super Bowl of Black rodeos.” It is the oldest of its kind in the country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"arts_13955021","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>He began posting his photographs of the event online. As his social media audience grew, McClellan was soon traveling the country in search of similar happenings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There are Black cowboys pretty much everywhere. I mean, there are Black cowboys here in Portland, Ore., where I live, which I think is the last place that I would have expected to find them,” said McClellan, who now runs his own rodeo.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I went all the way to Oklahoma to realize that there were cowboys up the road from me who have been there for four generations … You’d be hard pressed to find a part of America where there wasn’t at least some some portion of this culture.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1200px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2024/04/23/ivan_mcclellan_07_custom-0da721f05dccc9141ff2052b7e9719d3d118157d.jpg?s=1200&c=75&f=jpeg\" alt=\"A Black woman in a cowboy hat, shirt and jeans poses inside an industrial enclosure.\" width=\"1200\" height=\"891\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Jadayia Kursh, Okmulgee, Okla.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>It’s a narrative largely shunned by Hollywood and the broader mass culture, where the cowboy is consistently portrayed as a white male, be it John Wayne, Val Kilmer or on TV series like \u003cem>Bonanza\u003c/em> (1959-73) and \u003cem>Gunsmoke\u003c/em> (1955-75).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Up until a few years ago, “I really thought that term [cowboy] was a joke when applied to a Black person,” McClellan said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In fact, the term was once a pejorative for African Americans working on ranches and farms, while white cowboys were known as “cowhands.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1200px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2024/04/23/ivan_mcclellan_08_custom-f5fa59efb45a4fb53276ba52a59684a8cc36fcc9.jpg?s=1200&c=75&f=jpeg\" alt=\"A Black man lies flat along a horse's back, his hat flying off behind him, as he struggles to stay on the bucking horse.\" width=\"1200\" height=\"891\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Patrick Liddell, Las Vegas, Nevada.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>But ultimately, cowboy became “a shorthand for our noblest ideals,” McClellan said. “A lot of these things our popular culture is hesitant to attribute to a Black person. So I think to have a cowboy rushing in, saving the day with a black face just didn’t jibe with the stories that Hollywood was trying to tell. I think it’s erasure. I think it’s at best, laziness, at worst, very intentional and malicious. But I’m excited to see that transforming before my eyes.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Beyoncé’s recent country-influenced album \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9XHMK3nWr4\">\u003cem>Cowboy Carter\u003c/em>\u003c/a> is the latest iteration of that push for change in popular culture. Lil Nas X challenged the country genre in 2018 with his song “\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7qovpFAGrQ\">Old Town Road.\u003c/a>” It became a viral hit after sparking widespread conversations \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2019/04/05/710021098/lil-nas-x-country-musics-unlikely-son-sparks-conversation-on-genre-and-race\">about genre gatekeeping and Black musicians’ place within country culture\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1200px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2024/04/23/ivan_mcclellan_09_custom-d069a736f1be991e2c90579b2e603ca412549042.jpg?s=1200&c=75&f=jpeg\" alt=\"Two young Black men in full cowboy regalia stand behind a fence in a large warehouse, watching the distance intently. An older Black man stands at their side doing the same.\" width=\"1200\" height=\"894\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Bull Riders, Rosenberg, Texas.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“It was a perfect alley-oop. And Beyoncé is hanging on the rim right now,” said McClellan. “Beyoncé is not only revealing Black cowboy culture, but she’s transforming country music forever and tearing down genres in a way that that I don’t think has ever been done.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"arts_13939314","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>For McClellan, there’s now one place where he keeps returning over and over.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As far as cultural impact, there’s nothing like the Roy LeBlanc Invitational Rodeo,” he said. “On the second weekend in August at about 8 p.m. when the sun is going down, everything is gold and all the athletes are filing into the arena for the grand entry. And that is where I like to take photos more than anywhere else on the entire planet.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\">\n\u003cfigure class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1200px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2024/04/23/ivan_mcclellan_04_custom-6997682f2f6e5a0d922046c6178e1759c11b9ebd.jpg?s=1200&c=75&f=jpeg\" alt=\"A young Black woman in a fringed red shirt and black cowboy hat decorated with a tiara sits on horseback comfortably holding reins.\" width=\"1200\" height=\"930\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Rodeo Queen, Okmulgee, Okla.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>The broadcast version of this story was produced by \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/people/896256272/lilly-quiroz\">\u003cem>Lilly Quiroz\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>. The digital version was edited by Obed Manuel.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/arts/13956604/black-cowboys-book-review-eight-seconds-rodeo-culture-ivan-mcclellan-photography","authors":["92"],"programs":["arts_140"],"categories":["arts_1","arts_73","arts_835"],"tags":["arts_1050","arts_22110","arts_822","arts_22111","arts_585"],"affiliates":["arts_137"],"featImg":"arts_13956605","label":"arts_140"},"arts_13956411":{"type":"posts","id":"arts_13956411","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"arts","id":"13956411","score":null,"sort":[1713899846000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"amy-tan-interview-new-book-backyard-bird-chronicles-sausalito","title":"Amy Tan’s Bird Obsession Led to a New Book — and Keeping Mealworms in Her Fridge","publishDate":1713899846,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Amy Tan’s Bird Obsession Led to a New Book — and Keeping Mealworms in Her Fridge | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":140,"site":"arts"},"content":"\u003cp>If you know author Amy Tan for \u003cem>The Joy Luck Club\u003c/em> — a novel about Chinese immigrant families in San Francisco — her new book, \u003cem>The Backyard Bird Chronicles\u003c/em>, might seem like a deviation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s because Tan didn’t set out to write a book when she started working on it in 2016.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She was depressed with the state of the world then and was trying to lose herself in nature.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She began looking out her window and journaling. Soon, she had pages and pages of observations and drawings of the birds in her very own backyard. Those musings turned into \u003cem>The Backyard Bird Chronicles\u003c/em>, a nature journal out this week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Morning Edition \u003c/em>host Leila Fadel spoke with Tan about the joys of birdwatching.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This interview has been edited for length and clarity. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Leila Fadel: \u003c/strong>What made you start journaling and focusing on birds?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amy Tan: \u003c/strong>I tend to be an obsessive person to begin with, but one of the things I obsessed on in 2016 was the degree of racism that was being shown, and people now considered it almost their freedom of expression to say exactly what they thought about other people who were of a different race. It was people ignoring me as if I were invisible in a store — everybody else being served, but not me. And it happened on an airplane not that long ago. And the first thing that comes to mind is: racism. Yeah, and I never had that feeling before, and it was horrible. So I needed to get it out of my mind, and I decided to go back into nature and also start learning how to draw.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13956419\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1096px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13956419\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/Screen-Shot-2024-04-23-at-12.00.39-PM.png\" alt=\"Six sketches of owl's facial expressions, labeled Great Horned Owls.\" width=\"1096\" height=\"1318\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/Screen-Shot-2024-04-23-at-12.00.39-PM.png 1096w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/Screen-Shot-2024-04-23-at-12.00.39-PM-800x962.png 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/Screen-Shot-2024-04-23-at-12.00.39-PM-1020x1227.png 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/Screen-Shot-2024-04-23-at-12.00.39-PM-160x192.png 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/Screen-Shot-2024-04-23-at-12.00.39-PM-768x924.png 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1096px) 100vw, 1096px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sketches of Great Horned Owls from Amy Tan’s new book, ‘The Backyard Bird Chronicles.’ \u003ccite>(Penguin Randomhouse)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fadel: \u003c/strong>Did it help with all of this terribleness that you were feeling and experiencing?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tan:\u003c/strong> Yes, it was like a reset for the world at the time because I was feeling so much despair that our world was turning uglier and uglier. And instead, here I was in nature. And it was beautiful. It was in the moment. And what better antidote to be in a place of biodiversity as opposed to hatred of diversity?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fadel:\u003c/strong> You have these incredible drawings of California quail and golden crown sparrows and hummingbirds, pine siskins — in different moods and health. All of these scenes are from the bird life in your own backyard?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tan: \u003c/strong>Every single bird in the book is from my backyard. Every bird that I’ve drawn is a bird that looked at me. I only write about the birds in my backyard. And that was just a decision I made for myself that I would make this very personal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>[aside postid='arts_13938121']Fadel: \u003c/strong>You say that you’re a bit obsessive. How many hours a day were you watching birds in your backyard?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tan:\u003c/strong> I have bird feeders visible from almost all of the windows in my house and I have a lot of windows. So I was spending, on some days, 10 hours watching the birds and sketching them … Now, I was learning to draw. So a lot of that time was simply drawing the same bird over and over and over again just for the practice of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fadel:\u003c/strong> You notice the birds and you also notice them noticing you. Who is Amy Tan to these birds?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tan: \u003c/strong>I suspect that they know me as the flightless creature who brings out the food. I once took away the feeders because there was an outbreak of disease that some finches had brought. And I took them all down for a very long time, and suddenly I had birds coming to the window in the bathroom … and they were looking at me very intensely. These were birds I always wanted to see. And now here they were coming to the window. And I remember one of them just looked at me, an orange crowned warbler, and then it tapped his beak on the window. And I’ve heard people say, ‘Oh, they’re tapping it because they see their reflection, blah, blah, blah.’ But this was not that. When I moved to another room, it followed me and went to that window and just stared at me. And then it followed me to another window. And then later in the day, when I opened the door, it flew in and it just stared at me like, “Where is the food?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13956420\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 968px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13956420\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/Screen-Shot-2024-04-23-at-12.02.51-PM.png\" alt=\"Playful illustrations of three blue scrub jays, an adult female owl and its male offspring, three crows and a young girl.\" width=\"968\" height=\"1294\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/Screen-Shot-2024-04-23-at-12.02.51-PM.png 968w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/Screen-Shot-2024-04-23-at-12.02.51-PM-800x1069.png 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/Screen-Shot-2024-04-23-at-12.02.51-PM-160x214.png 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/Screen-Shot-2024-04-23-at-12.02.51-PM-768x1027.png 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 968px) 100vw, 968px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sketches from Amy Tan’s book, ‘The Backyard Bird Chronicles.’ \u003ccite>(Penguin Randomhouse)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fadel: \u003c/strong>Your husband makes a few little appearances in the book where he drives you to get food for the birds. And I think at one point you’re spending $250 a month on food for the birds. What does he think about your hobby?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tan: \u003c/strong>That’s obsessive, I would say. I know. I would buy these live mealworms. Sometimes there were 20,000 of them. And I would put them in containers … and then I would put them in the fridge. And so when I started getting 20,000 instead of 10,000, Lou did say something about, “You’ve got too many mealworms in here.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postid='arts_13951961']The other thing that he was tolerant of is that sometimes I would have a dead bird and I carefully wrapped them up, put the date when they were found and what the breed was. And then I’d put them in the freezer to give to the California Academy of Sciences. Then I feel they’re going off to a very advanced institution, and it makes me feel better in a way. They will serve a purpose, even though they’ve died.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fadel: \u003c/strong>Also, Lou really loves you. That’s a sign of real love.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tan: \u003c/strong>We’ve been together for 54 years, so he knows me and my habits, and I’ve had dead snakes in the freezer in the past. So this is probably one step up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fadel: \u003c/strong>Par for the course. Amy Tan, her new book is \u003cem>The Backyard Bird Chronicles\u003c/em> and she’s written and illustrated it. Thank you so much for this book and really such a joyful conversation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tan: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"fullattribution\">\u003cem>Copyright 2024 NPR. To see more, \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org\">visit NPR\u003c/a>.\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://www.google-analytics.com/__utm.gif?utmac=UA-5828686-4&utmdt=Amy+Tan%27s+bird+obsession+led+to+a+new+book+%E2%80%94+and+keeping+mealworms+in+her+fridge&utme=8(APIKey)9(MDAxOTAwOTE4MDEyMTkxMDAzNjczZDljZA004)\">\u003c/em>\u003c/div>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"The Bay Area author charts her foray into birdwatching and the natural wonders of California in ‘The Backyard Bird Chronicles.’ ","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713899846,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":25,"wordCount":1083},"headData":{"title":"Amy Tan’s New Book Documents the Birds in Her Sausalito Yard | KQED","description":"The Bay Area author charts her foray into birdwatching and the natural wonders of California in ‘The Backyard Bird Chronicles.’ ","ogTitle":"Amy Tan’s Bird Obsession Led to a New Book — and Keeping Mealworms in Her Fridge","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"Amy Tan’s Bird Obsession Led to a New Book — and Keeping Mealworms in Her Fridge","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","socialTitle":"Amy Tan’s New Book Documents the Birds in Her Sausalito Yard %%page%% %%sep%% KQED","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Amy Tan’s Bird Obsession Led to a New Book — and Keeping Mealworms in Her Fridge","datePublished":"2024-04-23T19:17:26.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-23T19:17:26.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"sticky":false,"nprImageCredit":"Kim Newmoney","nprByline":"Julie Depenbrock","nprImageAgency":"Penguin Randomhouse","nprStoryId":"1246277603","nprApiLink":"http://api.npr.org/query?id=1246277603&apiKey=MDAxOTAwOTE4MDEyMTkxMDAzNjczZDljZA004","nprHtmlLink":"https://www.npr.org/2024/04/22/1246277603/amy-tan-backyard-bird-chronicles?ft=nprml&f=1246277603","nprRetrievedStory":"1","nprPubDate":"Tue, 23 Apr 2024 07:59:00 -0400","nprStoryDate":"Mon, 22 Apr 2024 05:14:12 -0400","nprLastModifiedDate":"Tue, 23 Apr 2024 07:59:39 -0400","nprAudio":"https://play.podtrac.com/npr-191676894/ondemand.npr.org/anon.npr-mp3/npr/me/2024/04/20240422_me_backyard_bird_chronicles.mp3?orgId=1&topicId=1033&aggIds=1200383155&d=418&p=3&story=1246277603&ft=nprml&f=1246277603","nprAudioM3u":"http://api.npr.org/m3u/11246277604-8e0565.m3u?orgId=1&topicId=1033&aggIds=1200383155&d=418&p=3&story=1246277603&ft=nprml&f=1246277603","templateType":"standard","featuredImageType":"standard","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/arts/13956411/amy-tan-interview-new-book-backyard-bird-chronicles-sausalito","audioUrl":"https://play.podtrac.com/npr-191676894/ondemand.npr.org/anon.npr-mp3/npr/me/2024/04/20240422_me_backyard_bird_chronicles.mp3?orgId=1&topicId=1033&aggIds=1200383155&d=418&p=3&story=1246277603&ft=nprml&f=1246277603","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>If you know author Amy Tan for \u003cem>The Joy Luck Club\u003c/em> — a novel about Chinese immigrant families in San Francisco — her new book, \u003cem>The Backyard Bird Chronicles\u003c/em>, might seem like a deviation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s because Tan didn’t set out to write a book when she started working on it in 2016.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She was depressed with the state of the world then and was trying to lose herself in nature.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She began looking out her window and journaling. Soon, she had pages and pages of observations and drawings of the birds in her very own backyard. Those musings turned into \u003cem>The Backyard Bird Chronicles\u003c/em>, a nature journal out this week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Morning Edition \u003c/em>host Leila Fadel spoke with Tan about the joys of birdwatching.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This interview has been edited for length and clarity. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Leila Fadel: \u003c/strong>What made you start journaling and focusing on birds?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Amy Tan: \u003c/strong>I tend to be an obsessive person to begin with, but one of the things I obsessed on in 2016 was the degree of racism that was being shown, and people now considered it almost their freedom of expression to say exactly what they thought about other people who were of a different race. It was people ignoring me as if I were invisible in a store — everybody else being served, but not me. And it happened on an airplane not that long ago. And the first thing that comes to mind is: racism. Yeah, and I never had that feeling before, and it was horrible. So I needed to get it out of my mind, and I decided to go back into nature and also start learning how to draw.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13956419\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1096px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13956419\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/Screen-Shot-2024-04-23-at-12.00.39-PM.png\" alt=\"Six sketches of owl's facial expressions, labeled Great Horned Owls.\" width=\"1096\" height=\"1318\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/Screen-Shot-2024-04-23-at-12.00.39-PM.png 1096w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/Screen-Shot-2024-04-23-at-12.00.39-PM-800x962.png 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/Screen-Shot-2024-04-23-at-12.00.39-PM-1020x1227.png 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/Screen-Shot-2024-04-23-at-12.00.39-PM-160x192.png 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/Screen-Shot-2024-04-23-at-12.00.39-PM-768x924.png 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1096px) 100vw, 1096px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sketches of Great Horned Owls from Amy Tan’s new book, ‘The Backyard Bird Chronicles.’ \u003ccite>(Penguin Randomhouse)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fadel: \u003c/strong>Did it help with all of this terribleness that you were feeling and experiencing?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tan:\u003c/strong> Yes, it was like a reset for the world at the time because I was feeling so much despair that our world was turning uglier and uglier. And instead, here I was in nature. And it was beautiful. It was in the moment. And what better antidote to be in a place of biodiversity as opposed to hatred of diversity?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fadel:\u003c/strong> You have these incredible drawings of California quail and golden crown sparrows and hummingbirds, pine siskins — in different moods and health. All of these scenes are from the bird life in your own backyard?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tan: \u003c/strong>Every single bird in the book is from my backyard. Every bird that I’ve drawn is a bird that looked at me. I only write about the birds in my backyard. And that was just a decision I made for myself that I would make this very personal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"arts_13938121","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Fadel: \u003c/strong>You say that you’re a bit obsessive. How many hours a day were you watching birds in your backyard?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tan:\u003c/strong> I have bird feeders visible from almost all of the windows in my house and I have a lot of windows. So I was spending, on some days, 10 hours watching the birds and sketching them … Now, I was learning to draw. So a lot of that time was simply drawing the same bird over and over and over again just for the practice of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fadel:\u003c/strong> You notice the birds and you also notice them noticing you. Who is Amy Tan to these birds?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tan: \u003c/strong>I suspect that they know me as the flightless creature who brings out the food. I once took away the feeders because there was an outbreak of disease that some finches had brought. And I took them all down for a very long time, and suddenly I had birds coming to the window in the bathroom … and they were looking at me very intensely. These were birds I always wanted to see. And now here they were coming to the window. And I remember one of them just looked at me, an orange crowned warbler, and then it tapped his beak on the window. And I’ve heard people say, ‘Oh, they’re tapping it because they see their reflection, blah, blah, blah.’ But this was not that. When I moved to another room, it followed me and went to that window and just stared at me. And then it followed me to another window. And then later in the day, when I opened the door, it flew in and it just stared at me like, “Where is the food?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13956420\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 968px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13956420\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/Screen-Shot-2024-04-23-at-12.02.51-PM.png\" alt=\"Playful illustrations of three blue scrub jays, an adult female owl and its male offspring, three crows and a young girl.\" width=\"968\" height=\"1294\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/Screen-Shot-2024-04-23-at-12.02.51-PM.png 968w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/Screen-Shot-2024-04-23-at-12.02.51-PM-800x1069.png 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/Screen-Shot-2024-04-23-at-12.02.51-PM-160x214.png 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/Screen-Shot-2024-04-23-at-12.02.51-PM-768x1027.png 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 968px) 100vw, 968px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sketches from Amy Tan’s book, ‘The Backyard Bird Chronicles.’ \u003ccite>(Penguin Randomhouse)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fadel: \u003c/strong>Your husband makes a few little appearances in the book where he drives you to get food for the birds. And I think at one point you’re spending $250 a month on food for the birds. What does he think about your hobby?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tan: \u003c/strong>That’s obsessive, I would say. I know. I would buy these live mealworms. Sometimes there were 20,000 of them. And I would put them in containers … and then I would put them in the fridge. And so when I started getting 20,000 instead of 10,000, Lou did say something about, “You’ve got too many mealworms in here.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"arts_13951961","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The other thing that he was tolerant of is that sometimes I would have a dead bird and I carefully wrapped them up, put the date when they were found and what the breed was. And then I’d put them in the freezer to give to the California Academy of Sciences. Then I feel they’re going off to a very advanced institution, and it makes me feel better in a way. They will serve a purpose, even though they’ve died.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fadel: \u003c/strong>Also, Lou really loves you. That’s a sign of real love.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tan: \u003c/strong>We’ve been together for 54 years, so he knows me and my habits, and I’ve had dead snakes in the freezer in the past. So this is probably one step up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Fadel: \u003c/strong>Par for the course. Amy Tan, her new book is \u003cem>The Backyard Bird Chronicles\u003c/em> and she’s written and illustrated it. Thank you so much for this book and really such a joyful conversation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Tan: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"fullattribution\">\u003cem>Copyright 2024 NPR. To see more, \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org\">visit NPR\u003c/a>.\u003cimg decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://www.google-analytics.com/__utm.gif?utmac=UA-5828686-4&utmdt=Amy+Tan%27s+bird+obsession+led+to+a+new+book+%E2%80%94+and+keeping+mealworms+in+her+fridge&utme=8(APIKey)9(MDAxOTAwOTE4MDEyMTkxMDAzNjczZDljZA004)\">\u003c/em>\u003c/div>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/arts/13956411/amy-tan-interview-new-book-backyard-bird-chronicles-sausalito","authors":["byline_arts_13956411"],"programs":["arts_140"],"categories":["arts_1","arts_73","arts_835"],"tags":["arts_9124","arts_16385","arts_1050","arts_21679","arts_585"],"affiliates":["arts_137"],"featImg":"arts_13956412","label":"arts_140"},"arts_13956178":{"type":"posts","id":"arts_13956178","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"arts","id":"13956178","score":null,"sort":[1713465326000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"minnie-bells-soul-food-restaurant-fillmore-sf-opening","title":"Minnie Bell’s New Soul Food Restaurant in the Fillmore Is a Homecoming","publishDate":1713465326,"format":"audio","headTitle":"Minnie Bell’s New Soul Food Restaurant in the Fillmore Is a Homecoming | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>Chef Fernay McPherson has been serving her take on Southern comfort foods, like crispy rosemary fried chicken and apparently the Bay Area’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/restaurants/article/an-ode-to-minnie-bell-s-gooey-mac-and-cheese-16012173.php\">best mac and cheese\u003c/a>, at her stall at The Public Market Food Hall in Emeryville since 2018. But she has long \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11800814/a-black-chefs-dream-of-returning-to-the-fillmore\">dreamed\u003c/a> of running a restaurant in her hometown.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“My quest was to find a space in San Francisco and preferably in the Fillmore,” McPherson says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She grew up in that neighborhood, once known as the “Harlem of the West,” which used to be full of Black-owned businesses. But \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11825401/how-urban-renewal-decimated-the-fillmore-district-and-took-jazz-with-it\">urban renewal\u003c/a> efforts from the 1950s through the 1970s forced tens of thousands of families to leave, and most businesses shut down.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>WATCH KQED’s 1999 documentary on the history of Fillmore:\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8h2meDtdm8\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A few have remained, and in recent years, a citywide effort — the Dream Keeper Initiative — is trying to revitalize the area and help bring back Black-owned businesses, like \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11954111/longtime-fillmore-resident-hopes-to-restore-commerce-with-black-led-marketplace\">In The Black\u003c/a>, a shared retail space.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"color: #2b2b2b;font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>\u003cstrong>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[aside postID='arts_13900855,arts_13916044,arts_13874853']\u003c/span>\u003c/strong>\u003c/b>\u003c/span>The program helped make it possible for McPherson to realize her dream. On Friday, she’ll welcome the public to dine at Minnie Bell’s Soul Movement — a stand-alone brick-and-mortar version of the East Bay stall, featuring a similar menu.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I want to be able to educate people who may not know what was here before,” says McPherson, wearing a blue-gray apron and a graphic T-shirt emblazoned with a photo of Whitney Houston, from inside the 40-seat establishment in the heart of the Fillmore District. “Share those stories that my dad, my aunt share with me about how rich this was and be able to represent the culture and look forward to seeing more of it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For her, food is personal, and the restaurant pays homage to her family history. One wall is decorated with a large mural of a photo of Fillmore Street in its heyday in the 1960s. Another wall has two large-scale photographs of her biggest inspirations — her grandma Lillie Bell and her great-aunt Minnie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13956186\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13956186\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-31-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A fresh batch of fried chicken is pulled out of the deep fryer.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-31-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-31-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-31-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-31-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-31-BL-KQED-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-31-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-31-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Pulling a fresh batch of rosemary fried chicken out of the fryer. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“I picked these photos because I wanted a photo of them in their youth, like my aunt has on her cap and gown. She was graduating high school. My grandmother was about 21 and it was a professional portrait,” she says. “I just think they look so beautiful, and when I look up at these pictures, it just gives me all the strength that I need to get through my day.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>McPherson talked more about how important the past has been toward shaping her present with KQED’s Adhiti Bandlamudi.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This conversation has been edited for clarity and brevity.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003chr>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Adhiti Bandlamudi: Tell me more about your grandma and great aunt. How did their story manifest when it came to creating a menu and thinking about what experience you wanted to give at Minnie Bell’s Soul Movement?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fernay McPherson:\u003c/b> While I may add a little twist to it, everything that I cook is food that I grew up eating. Before my family left Texas in the 1960s, my grandma made the chicken and pound cake for their journey into San Francisco. So we have that pound cake that she made — but [with] the addition of the caramel. I make it the same way that she taught me to make it. It was one of the cakes that everyone in the family wanted for their birthday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We have fried chicken, which is the highlight of what we do, [and] the addition of the rosemary, is very San Francisco with so many rosemary bushes here. So those two married together — the flavors that migrated during the Great Migration with the fried chicken and then the freshness of the rosemary in the city, where I was born and raised. It’s like a perfect blend of Chef Fernay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>It almost seems like your approach to soul food is tradition with a little twist.\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Exactly! It’s tradition with a little twist. But the twists are not so much that it doesn’t display a homestyle comfort meal. That was so important for me, for people to eat the food and feel the comfort of home. In Emeryville, people would come and say, “Well, I’m from the South, so I’ll let you know how it tastes.” And I’m like, “Okay, that’s cool.” I know how it tastes [too], you know? But they would always come back and say, “That was so good, that really reminds me of home.” That is definitely the experience that I want people to get. Not too much of a twist, but the perfect twist.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13956187\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13956187\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-35-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A chef picks fresh rosemary leaves.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-35-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-35-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-35-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-35-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-35-BL-KQED-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-35-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-35-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">McPherson prepares rosemary alongside Mundo Pérez at her new Fillmore restaurant. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>You’ve been operating out of Emeryville since 2018, and now you’re getting ready to open up in San Francisco. You’ve wanted this for so long. What’s going through your mind right now?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s a surreal experience. [To] be in the Fillmore, the community where I was born and raised, but also in a neighborhood that was rich in African-American culture, ownership, businesses, jazz clubs, just means so much, because I want to be able to represent a bygone era.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I am third generation. My aunt and dad talk about the history of the neighborhood. Then, I have my own history. So it’s three layers to what that history used to be. And by the time I was a teenager and walking around these streets, it was minimal Black businesses; whereas now, it’s almost nonexistent. So being a part of that revitalization is important, so that we can learn about the culture and know what used to be here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Are any of your relatives, like Aunt Minnie, coming to the restaurant’s grand opening? \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We have a private grand opening party on Thursday, when my Aunt Minnie will see her face on this wall for the first time. My parents, they’re still in the neighborhood. My aunt lives with them, so they’ll all be here. My brothers will be here. My children will be here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13956189\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13956189\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-47-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A paper-lined basket of fried chicken on a countertop.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-47-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-47-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-47-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-47-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-47-BL-KQED-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-47-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-47-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">McPherson’s famous rosemary fried chicken, ready to be eaten. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>What do you plan to serve to Aunt Minnie ?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For her, I will do candied yams, fried chicken, cornbread and greens.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>How might she respond? Are you ready for her critique?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She critiques it all the time! She tells me all the time you’re getting better and better. She has the food often. So when she comes in, it won’t be anything new. It just has to be right. Because if it’s not, she will let me know. But when she tells me, “This was delicious,” that’s all the validation I need.\u003c/p>\n\u003chr>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.minniebellssoul.com/\">\u003ci>Minnie Bell’s Soul Movement\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci> is located at 1375 Fillmore St. in San Francisco.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Chef Fernay McPherson brings comfort classics like fried chicken and mac and cheese to her old neighborhood.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1713466316,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":true,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":28,"wordCount":1225},"headData":{"title":"Minnie Bell’s New Soul Food Restaurant in the Fillmore Is a Homecoming | KQED","description":"Chef Fernay McPherson brings comfort classics like fried chicken and mac and cheese to her old neighborhood.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Minnie Bell’s New Soul Food Restaurant in the Fillmore Is a Homecoming","datePublished":"2024-04-18T18:35:26.000Z","dateModified":"2024-04-18T18:51:56.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"source":"Food","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/food","audioUrl":"https://traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/0af137ef-751e-4b19-a055-aaef00d2d578/ffca7e9f-6831-4[…]f-aaef00f5a073/fa7e7425-862b-4a0d-92c1-b15601046432/audio.mp3","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/arts/13956178/minnie-bells-soul-food-restaurant-fillmore-sf-opening","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Chef Fernay McPherson has been serving her take on Southern comfort foods, like crispy rosemary fried chicken and apparently the Bay Area’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/restaurants/article/an-ode-to-minnie-bell-s-gooey-mac-and-cheese-16012173.php\">best mac and cheese\u003c/a>, at her stall at The Public Market Food Hall in Emeryville since 2018. But she has long \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11800814/a-black-chefs-dream-of-returning-to-the-fillmore\">dreamed\u003c/a> of running a restaurant in her hometown.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“My quest was to find a space in San Francisco and preferably in the Fillmore,” McPherson says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She grew up in that neighborhood, once known as the “Harlem of the West,” which used to be full of Black-owned businesses. But \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11825401/how-urban-renewal-decimated-the-fillmore-district-and-took-jazz-with-it\">urban renewal\u003c/a> efforts from the 1950s through the 1970s forced tens of thousands of families to leave, and most businesses shut down.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>WATCH KQED’s 1999 documentary on the history of Fillmore:\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/a8h2meDtdm8'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/a8h2meDtdm8'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A few have remained, and in recent years, a citywide effort — the Dream Keeper Initiative — is trying to revitalize the area and help bring back Black-owned businesses, like \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11954111/longtime-fillmore-resident-hopes-to-restore-commerce-with-black-led-marketplace\">In The Black\u003c/a>, a shared retail space.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"color: #2b2b2b;font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>\u003cstrong>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"arts_13900855,arts_13916044,arts_13874853","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/span>\u003c/strong>\u003c/b>\u003c/span>The program helped make it possible for McPherson to realize her dream. On Friday, she’ll welcome the public to dine at Minnie Bell’s Soul Movement — a stand-alone brick-and-mortar version of the East Bay stall, featuring a similar menu.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I want to be able to educate people who may not know what was here before,” says McPherson, wearing a blue-gray apron and a graphic T-shirt emblazoned with a photo of Whitney Houston, from inside the 40-seat establishment in the heart of the Fillmore District. “Share those stories that my dad, my aunt share with me about how rich this was and be able to represent the culture and look forward to seeing more of it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For her, food is personal, and the restaurant pays homage to her family history. One wall is decorated with a large mural of a photo of Fillmore Street in its heyday in the 1960s. Another wall has two large-scale photographs of her biggest inspirations — her grandma Lillie Bell and her great-aunt Minnie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13956186\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13956186\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-31-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A fresh batch of fried chicken is pulled out of the deep fryer.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-31-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-31-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-31-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-31-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-31-BL-KQED-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-31-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-31-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Pulling a fresh batch of rosemary fried chicken out of the fryer. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“I picked these photos because I wanted a photo of them in their youth, like my aunt has on her cap and gown. She was graduating high school. My grandmother was about 21 and it was a professional portrait,” she says. “I just think they look so beautiful, and when I look up at these pictures, it just gives me all the strength that I need to get through my day.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>McPherson talked more about how important the past has been toward shaping her present with KQED’s Adhiti Bandlamudi.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This conversation has been edited for clarity and brevity.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003chr>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Adhiti Bandlamudi: Tell me more about your grandma and great aunt. How did their story manifest when it came to creating a menu and thinking about what experience you wanted to give at Minnie Bell’s Soul Movement?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fernay McPherson:\u003c/b> While I may add a little twist to it, everything that I cook is food that I grew up eating. Before my family left Texas in the 1960s, my grandma made the chicken and pound cake for their journey into San Francisco. So we have that pound cake that she made — but [with] the addition of the caramel. I make it the same way that she taught me to make it. It was one of the cakes that everyone in the family wanted for their birthday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We have fried chicken, which is the highlight of what we do, [and] the addition of the rosemary, is very San Francisco with so many rosemary bushes here. So those two married together — the flavors that migrated during the Great Migration with the fried chicken and then the freshness of the rosemary in the city, where I was born and raised. It’s like a perfect blend of Chef Fernay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>It almost seems like your approach to soul food is tradition with a little twist.\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Exactly! It’s tradition with a little twist. But the twists are not so much that it doesn’t display a homestyle comfort meal. That was so important for me, for people to eat the food and feel the comfort of home. In Emeryville, people would come and say, “Well, I’m from the South, so I’ll let you know how it tastes.” And I’m like, “Okay, that’s cool.” I know how it tastes [too], you know? But they would always come back and say, “That was so good, that really reminds me of home.” That is definitely the experience that I want people to get. Not too much of a twist, but the perfect twist.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13956187\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13956187\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-35-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A chef picks fresh rosemary leaves.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-35-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-35-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-35-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-35-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-35-BL-KQED-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-35-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-35-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">McPherson prepares rosemary alongside Mundo Pérez at her new Fillmore restaurant. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>You’ve been operating out of Emeryville since 2018, and now you’re getting ready to open up in San Francisco. You’ve wanted this for so long. What’s going through your mind right now?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s a surreal experience. [To] be in the Fillmore, the community where I was born and raised, but also in a neighborhood that was rich in African-American culture, ownership, businesses, jazz clubs, just means so much, because I want to be able to represent a bygone era.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I am third generation. My aunt and dad talk about the history of the neighborhood. Then, I have my own history. So it’s three layers to what that history used to be. And by the time I was a teenager and walking around these streets, it was minimal Black businesses; whereas now, it’s almost nonexistent. So being a part of that revitalization is important, so that we can learn about the culture and know what used to be here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Are any of your relatives, like Aunt Minnie, coming to the restaurant’s grand opening? \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We have a private grand opening party on Thursday, when my Aunt Minnie will see her face on this wall for the first time. My parents, they’re still in the neighborhood. My aunt lives with them, so they’ll all be here. My brothers will be here. My children will be here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13956189\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13956189\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-47-BL-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"A paper-lined basket of fried chicken on a countertop.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-47-BL-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-47-BL-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-47-BL-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-47-BL-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-47-BL-KQED-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-47-BL-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/04/240416-MINNIESSOULFOOD-47-BL-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">McPherson’s famous rosemary fried chicken, ready to be eaten. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>What do you plan to serve to Aunt Minnie ?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For her, I will do candied yams, fried chicken, cornbread and greens.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>How might she respond? Are you ready for her critique?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She critiques it all the time! She tells me all the time you’re getting better and better. She has the food often. So when she comes in, it won’t be anything new. It just has to be right. Because if it’s not, she will let me know. But when she tells me, “This was delicious,” that’s all the validation I need.\u003c/p>\n\u003chr>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.minniebellssoul.com/\">\u003ci>Minnie Bell’s Soul Movement\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci> is located at 1375 Fillmore St. in San Francisco.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/arts/13956178/minnie-bells-soul-food-restaurant-fillmore-sf-opening","authors":["11672","11724"],"categories":["arts_1","arts_12276","arts_235"],"tags":["arts_6357","arts_10278","arts_1806","arts_1297","arts_1050","arts_1146","arts_14729"],"featImg":"arts_13956188","label":"source_arts_13956178"},"arts_13952306":{"type":"posts","id":"arts_13952306","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"arts","id":"13952306","score":null,"sort":[1707947296000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"sean-wang-oscars-grandma-movie-fremont-wai-po-nai-nai","title":"A Fremont Filmmaker Is Heading to the Oscars — With His Grandmothers","publishDate":1707947296,"format":"standard","headTitle":"A Fremont Filmmaker Is Heading to the Oscars — With His Grandmothers | KQED","labelTerm":{"site":"arts"},"content":"\u003cp>Sean Wang’s two grandmothers live together. They read the newspaper together. They dance together. They sleep in the same bed and complain about each other’s farts. The older of the two, Yi Yan Fuei, is 96. The younger, Chang Li Hua, is 86. They’re in-laws but they act more like sisters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Wang, their 29-year-old grandson, was getting into filmmaking, one of the first he made was a short where Yi and Chang feed him blueberries. When Sean refuses, they kill him and bury him in the backyard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postid='arts_13951958']Wang kept shooting them in their Bay Area home, especially after he moved back in with his nearby mom during the pandemic. They got accustomed to his camera being around. But they never thought it would lead to the Academy Awards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Nǎi Nai and Wài Pó\u003c/em>, Wang’s deeply charming portrait of his grandmothers, is nominated for best documentary short at the Academy Awards. In it, Wang films Yi and Chang going about their daily lives with bits of playfulness mixed in. They arm wrestle. They play dress-up. They watch \u003cem>Superbad\u003c/em>. But mostly, \u003cem>Nǎi Nai and Wài Pó\u003c/em>, which translates as maternal grandmother and paternal grandmother in Mandarin, captures the joy of two spirited ladies in older age as they occasionally chide their grandson’s attempts to turn them into movie stars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlyYimV6Qqw\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When you first asked us to be movie stars, we were like, ‘This must be a joke,’” Chang says in an interview by Zoom alongside Yi, with Wang joining from Los Angeles. “But now that we made this movie and it’s going to the Oscars, we do kind of feel like movie stars. Now that this whole experience has happened, we do feel a little prettier.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Oscar nominations were announced last month, it wasn’t Bradley Cooper’s or Emma Stone’s reactions that went viral. It was the celebration, caught on video, of Yi and Chang, with Wang, his mom and producer Sam Davis standing over them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCNMXENmOpk\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the film, which is streaming on Disney+, Yi and Chang reflect on mortality and the essential things in life. “As long as I have the newspaper, I can live,” says Yi in the film, with magnifying glass in hand. Now, they’re in the news, themselves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Every day I open the newspaper and if I got to see you, that’d be amazing,” Yi tells Wang, who, after translating, shrugged: “I don’t think we’ve made it into the Taiwanese newspapers yet.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postid='arts_13880441']A prominent news story a few years ago partly inspired Wang to make the movie. During the pandemic, when Asian and Asian-American hate crimes were escalating, he saw his grandmothers as a perfect antidote to the hateful stereotyping that followed COVID-19. At the same time, the short, which premiered last year at SXSW, was meant to essentially just be a simple home movie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That’s kind of why we made this movie,” Wang says. “It’s just so we could have this recollection, this time capsule that captures the essence of these two women. Long after they’ve passed away, we can have some sort of memento to remember what their lives were like.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Yi and Chang both grew up in poverty in wartime Taiwan. Their vivacious attitude (“Doesn’t matter if we know how to dance,” Chang says in the film. “We’ll shake our hips.”) is a conscious reaction to hardship they’ve experienced. In the film, Chang notes that days spent sad pass the same as those spent happy. “So I’m going to choose joy.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There was so much pain in our childhoods,” Chang says now, tearing up. “Our late lives are so much more fortunate than what we experienced when we were young. And then to be surrounded by our family, there’s so much more joy around us than when we were young.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postid='arts_13914487']That includes Wang who, when not brightening the days of his grandmothers, has emerged as one of the breakthrough filmmakers of the year. At the same time that \u003cem>Nǎi Nai and Wài Pó\u003c/em> was landing its Oscar nomination, Wang’s feature film directorial debut, \u003cem>Dìdi\u003c/em>, was a sensation at the Sundance Film Festival.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At Sundance, \u003cem>Dìdi\u003c/em>, a semi-autobiographical coming-of-age comedy about a teenage Taiwanese American skater kid growing up in Los Angeles, won the U.S Dramatic Audience Award and the special jury award for best ensemble cast — a cast that includes Chang as the mother-in-law. Focus acquired the film, the title of which can mean both “little brother” or a term of endearment for a family’s youngest son in Mandarin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Surreal and bonkers,” Wang says of the twin successes. “To have these spotlights on global platforms for these stories that come from such a deep personal place is bonkers.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A through line for Wang in his rapidly unfolding filmography is family. An earlier short of his, \u003cem>3,000 Miles\u003c/em>, tenderly stitches together voicemails left by his mother while Wang was living in New York. It concludes sweetly in their reunion. To Wang, his role as a filmmaker is to consider his strongest emotions — and more often than not, those feelings are connected to family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postid='arts_13951641']“Making films about my family helps me bridge the gap in my life as a human — seeing my mom not just as my mom or my grandmother not just as my grandmother but as people,” Wang says. “I’m still learning to bridge that gap.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, Wang’s family life will converge, of all places, at the Academy Awards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re going to the Oscars and I’m going with my grandmas,” Wang says, smiling. “It’s just, like, a sentence I never thought I would say.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For their part, Yi and Chang describe their feelings about attending the Oscars with their grandson in excited unison. “Wonderful! Wonderful!” they shout in English. Asked who they’re looking forward to meeting, Chang considers for a moment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Will Ang Lee be there?” she says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But amid their disbelief, Chang and Yi think there’s an important lesson to be found in the success of \u003cem>Nǎi Nai and Wài Pó\u003c/em> that doesn’t have to do with them, but in the grandson behind the camera. Even if the film concludes with Chang cursing Wang as a “freakin’ brat.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I want people to realize, especially parents: Don’t force your children to walk the path that you want them to walk,” Yi says. “Encourage them and support them in their interests, and be open to the paths that they’re naturally gravitating towards. Try to water those seeds.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Yi and Chang have become famous enough that casting directors have reached out to Wang about other movies. Wang recently relayed an audition offer to Chang for a film shooting in New York. She said she’d have to read the script first.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Says Wang: “They’re offer only.”\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"‘Nǎi Nai and Wài Pó,’ Sean Wang’s charming portrait of his grandmas, is nominated for best documentary short.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1708018968,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":true,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":27,"wordCount":1301},"headData":{"title":"Sean Wang Talks Oscars, Grandmas and ‘Bonkers’ Success | KQED","description":"‘Nǎi Nai and Wài Pó,’ Sean Wang’s charming portrait of his grandmas, is nominated for best documentary short.","ogTitle":"A Fremont Filmmaker Is Heading to the Oscars — With His Grandmothers","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"A Fremont Filmmaker Is Heading to the Oscars — With His Grandmothers","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","socialTitle":"Sean Wang Talks Oscars, Grandmas and ‘Bonkers’ Success %%page%% %%sep%% KQED","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"A Fremont Filmmaker Is Heading to the Oscars — With His Grandmothers","datePublished":"2024-02-14T21:48:16.000Z","dateModified":"2024-02-15T17:42:48.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"sticky":false,"nprByline":"Jake Coyle, Associated Press","templateType":"standard","featuredImageType":"standard","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/arts/13952306/sean-wang-oscars-grandma-movie-fremont-wai-po-nai-nai","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Sean Wang’s two grandmothers live together. They read the newspaper together. They dance together. They sleep in the same bed and complain about each other’s farts. The older of the two, Yi Yan Fuei, is 96. The younger, Chang Li Hua, is 86. They’re in-laws but they act more like sisters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Wang, their 29-year-old grandson, was getting into filmmaking, one of the first he made was a short where Yi and Chang feed him blueberries. When Sean refuses, they kill him and bury him in the backyard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"arts_13951958","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Wang kept shooting them in their Bay Area home, especially after he moved back in with his nearby mom during the pandemic. They got accustomed to his camera being around. But they never thought it would lead to the Academy Awards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Nǎi Nai and Wài Pó\u003c/em>, Wang’s deeply charming portrait of his grandmothers, is nominated for best documentary short at the Academy Awards. In it, Wang films Yi and Chang going about their daily lives with bits of playfulness mixed in. They arm wrestle. They play dress-up. They watch \u003cem>Superbad\u003c/em>. But mostly, \u003cem>Nǎi Nai and Wài Pó\u003c/em>, which translates as maternal grandmother and paternal grandmother in Mandarin, captures the joy of two spirited ladies in older age as they occasionally chide their grandson’s attempts to turn them into movie stars.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/JlyYimV6Qqw'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/JlyYimV6Qqw'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When you first asked us to be movie stars, we were like, ‘This must be a joke,’” Chang says in an interview by Zoom alongside Yi, with Wang joining from Los Angeles. “But now that we made this movie and it’s going to the Oscars, we do kind of feel like movie stars. Now that this whole experience has happened, we do feel a little prettier.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Oscar nominations were announced last month, it wasn’t Bradley Cooper’s or Emma Stone’s reactions that went viral. It was the celebration, caught on video, of Yi and Chang, with Wang, his mom and producer Sam Davis standing over them.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/iCNMXENmOpk'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/iCNMXENmOpk'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>In the film, which is streaming on Disney+, Yi and Chang reflect on mortality and the essential things in life. “As long as I have the newspaper, I can live,” says Yi in the film, with magnifying glass in hand. Now, they’re in the news, themselves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Every day I open the newspaper and if I got to see you, that’d be amazing,” Yi tells Wang, who, after translating, shrugged: “I don’t think we’ve made it into the Taiwanese newspapers yet.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"arts_13880441","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>A prominent news story a few years ago partly inspired Wang to make the movie. During the pandemic, when Asian and Asian-American hate crimes were escalating, he saw his grandmothers as a perfect antidote to the hateful stereotyping that followed COVID-19. At the same time, the short, which premiered last year at SXSW, was meant to essentially just be a simple home movie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That’s kind of why we made this movie,” Wang says. “It’s just so we could have this recollection, this time capsule that captures the essence of these two women. Long after they’ve passed away, we can have some sort of memento to remember what their lives were like.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Yi and Chang both grew up in poverty in wartime Taiwan. Their vivacious attitude (“Doesn’t matter if we know how to dance,” Chang says in the film. “We’ll shake our hips.”) is a conscious reaction to hardship they’ve experienced. In the film, Chang notes that days spent sad pass the same as those spent happy. “So I’m going to choose joy.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There was so much pain in our childhoods,” Chang says now, tearing up. “Our late lives are so much more fortunate than what we experienced when we were young. And then to be surrounded by our family, there’s so much more joy around us than when we were young.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"arts_13914487","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>That includes Wang who, when not brightening the days of his grandmothers, has emerged as one of the breakthrough filmmakers of the year. At the same time that \u003cem>Nǎi Nai and Wài Pó\u003c/em> was landing its Oscar nomination, Wang’s feature film directorial debut, \u003cem>Dìdi\u003c/em>, was a sensation at the Sundance Film Festival.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At Sundance, \u003cem>Dìdi\u003c/em>, a semi-autobiographical coming-of-age comedy about a teenage Taiwanese American skater kid growing up in Los Angeles, won the U.S Dramatic Audience Award and the special jury award for best ensemble cast — a cast that includes Chang as the mother-in-law. Focus acquired the film, the title of which can mean both “little brother” or a term of endearment for a family’s youngest son in Mandarin.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Surreal and bonkers,” Wang says of the twin successes. “To have these spotlights on global platforms for these stories that come from such a deep personal place is bonkers.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A through line for Wang in his rapidly unfolding filmography is family. An earlier short of his, \u003cem>3,000 Miles\u003c/em>, tenderly stitches together voicemails left by his mother while Wang was living in New York. It concludes sweetly in their reunion. To Wang, his role as a filmmaker is to consider his strongest emotions — and more often than not, those feelings are connected to family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"arts_13951641","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“Making films about my family helps me bridge the gap in my life as a human — seeing my mom not just as my mom or my grandmother not just as my grandmother but as people,” Wang says. “I’m still learning to bridge that gap.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, Wang’s family life will converge, of all places, at the Academy Awards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re going to the Oscars and I’m going with my grandmas,” Wang says, smiling. “It’s just, like, a sentence I never thought I would say.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For their part, Yi and Chang describe their feelings about attending the Oscars with their grandson in excited unison. “Wonderful! Wonderful!” they shout in English. Asked who they’re looking forward to meeting, Chang considers for a moment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Will Ang Lee be there?” she says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But amid their disbelief, Chang and Yi think there’s an important lesson to be found in the success of \u003cem>Nǎi Nai and Wài Pó\u003c/em> that doesn’t have to do with them, but in the grandson behind the camera. Even if the film concludes with Chang cursing Wang as a “freakin’ brat.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I want people to realize, especially parents: Don’t force your children to walk the path that you want them to walk,” Yi says. “Encourage them and support them in their interests, and be open to the paths that they’re naturally gravitating towards. Try to water those seeds.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Yi and Chang have become famous enough that casting directors have reached out to Wang about other movies. Wang recently relayed an audition offer to Chang for a film shooting in New York. She said she’d have to read the script first.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Says Wang: “They’re offer only.”\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/arts/13952306/sean-wang-oscars-grandma-movie-fremont-wai-po-nai-nai","authors":["byline_arts_13952306"],"categories":["arts_1","arts_74","arts_75"],"tags":["arts_3701","arts_13672","arts_7496","arts_1050","arts_3698"],"featImg":"arts_13952317","label":"arts"},"arts_13952301":{"type":"posts","id":"arts_13952301","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"arts","id":"13952301","score":null,"sort":[1707938152000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"franklin-peanuts-special-new-apple-tv-movie","title":"Franklin From ‘Peanuts’ Gets to Shine in the Spotlight of a New Apple TV+ Special","publishDate":1707938152,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Franklin From ‘Peanuts’ Gets to Shine in the Spotlight of a New Apple TV+ Special | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":140,"site":"arts"},"content":"\u003cp>The mild-mannered Franklin — the first Black character in the \u003cem>Peanuts\u003c/em> comic strip — gets to shine in his own animated Apple TV+ special this month in a story about friendship.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Franklin is a newcomer who bonds with Charlie Brown and is welcomed to the \u003cem>Peanuts\u003c/em> universe in \u003cem>Snoopy Presents: Welcome Home, Franklin\u003c/em>, which premieres on Friday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postid='arts_13852729']Co-writer \u003ca href=\"https://www.robbarmstrong.com/\">Robb Armstrong\u003c/a>, the cartoonist behind the \u003cem>JumpStart\u003c/em> strip, says he’s building on the blueprints that \u003cem>Peanuts\u003c/em> creator Charles Schulz left. “Whenever you start with good ingredients, you have to work hard to make a bad cake out of it,” he says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Race is never explicitly mentioned but Armstrong and co-writer Scott Montgomery make a subtle nod when Franklin surveys the kids in his new town and remarks, “One thing was for sure: There was a lack of variety in this place.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I never wanted to come off preachy or anything, but it needed to be handled in the same way that I handled it in \u003cem>JumpStart\u003c/em>,” says Armstrong. “I don’t come out and call people anything. I let the characters participate in a problem solving process.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The portrait of Franklin that emerges is of a boy who likes baseball and outer space, is good with his hands and listens to Stevie Wonder, Little Richard, James Brown and John Coltrane.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When he arrives in town, he’s tired of a life constantly moving, since his father’s military job takes them from location to location. “I have lived in lot of different places but none that I can call home,” he says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But his introduction to the \u003cem>Peanuts\u003c/em> gang initially goes poorly. He mistakes Lucy’s psychiatric booth for a lemonade stand and he freaks Linus out by picking a pumpkin from his patch. “If I didn’t know better, I’d swear I was in \u003cem>The Twilight Zone\u003c/em>,” Franklin says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Every time he’s moved, he’s had to learn how to make friends quick and that meant that he didn’t feel he could ever be his authentic self,” said director and story editor Raymond S. Persi. “So when he comes to this town, his normal tricks don’t work because these are kind of weird kids.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postid='arts_10870599']Franklin made his first appearance in the newspaper strip on July 31, 1968, prompted by a request from a school teacher for Schulz to integrate his comic strip world in the wake of the assassination of The Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Schulz introduced him by having Franklin return Charlie Brown’s wayward beach ball one day by the sea. It was a historical meeting and a statement: Many public beaches, like other public facilities such as schools, swimming pools, theaters and restaurants, were segregated at the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The new Apple TV+ special recreates that first meeting, with Franklin returning Charlie Brown’s errant beach ball and then the two building a sandcastle together.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“To have this very simple idea of two children who don’t know about racism, having fun playing at the beach, building something together, I think was just so smart,” said Persi.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go–Gzu_qGg\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Franklin and Charlie Brown soon enter a soap box derby competition and their friendship is tested before a deep bond is forged. “They’re not perfect. I’m not perfect. But we can get through the rough spots together, as friends,” Franklin says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“What I really like about the special is you’re getting a chance to see this friendship kind of grow in real time, in the way that real friendships do,” says Persi, who has directed animated projects with \u003cem>The Simpsons\u003c/em>, Mickey Mouse and the Minions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As usual for a \u003cem>Peanuts\u003c/em> show, music plays a key role. Original music by Jeff Morrow leans into sophisticated jazz and, in nods to Franklin, Berry’s “Johnny B. Goode,” “Nothing from Nothing” by Billy Preston and some Coltrane playing on a jukebox.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postid='arts_13938421']Armstrong has also used the special to correct some misperceptions about the 1973 classic \u003cem>A Charlie Brown Thanksgiving\u003c/em>. In that special, Franklin sits by himself on one side of the Thanksgiving table, leading some to suggest he’s not been fully embraced. In the new special, Franklin is specifically asked to come sit with his new pals on their side during a pizza party celebration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Armstrong says he started with that scene and then had to figure out how the gang got there. The writers came up with a soap box derby. “We needed something that was very highly action-oriented and packed with great risk. It had to be a competition,” Armstrong says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The special has plenty of lessons for kids and adults — winning isn’t everything, friendships can be messy but rewarding, and be your authentic self.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“What I’d like people to get out of it is that you don’t have to be something different for other people. Being yourself is what’s going to bring the right people into your lives,” says Persi.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Armstrong, who grew up revering Schulz, has a deep connection to Franklin. He became a cartoonist and a friend to Schulz. It was Schulz himself who asked the younger cartoonist if he would lend his last name to the character. So to have him years later spotlight Franklin in a TV special seems almost divine intervention.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Sometimes a miracle happens,” says Armstrong. “If someone’s got a better answer, I’d love to hear it. I’m just convinced that sometimes God gets involved. And this is that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-medium wp-image-12127869\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-800x78.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"78\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-768x75.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>‘Snoopy Presents: Welcome Home, Franklin’ begins streaming on Apple TV+ on Feb. 16, 2024.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"The portrait that emerges is of a boy who likes baseball, outer space, James Brown and working with his hands. ","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1707938152,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":true,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":26,"wordCount":1011},"headData":{"title":"New ‘Peanuts’ Special Shines a Light on Franklin | KQED","description":"The portrait that emerges is of a boy who likes baseball, outer space, James Brown and working with his hands. ","ogTitle":"Franklin From ‘Peanuts’ Gets to Shine in the Spotlight of a New Apple TV+ Special","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"Franklin From ‘Peanuts’ Gets to Shine in the Spotlight of a New Apple TV+ Special","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","socialTitle":"New ‘Peanuts’ Special Shines a Light on Franklin%%page%% %%sep%% KQED","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Franklin From ‘Peanuts’ Gets to Shine in the Spotlight of a New Apple TV+ Special","datePublished":"2024-02-14T19:15:52.000Z","dateModified":"2024-02-14T19:15:52.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"sticky":false,"nprByline":"Mark Kennedy, Associated Press","templateType":"standard","featuredImageType":"standard","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/arts/13952301/franklin-peanuts-special-new-apple-tv-movie","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>The mild-mannered Franklin — the first Black character in the \u003cem>Peanuts\u003c/em> comic strip — gets to shine in his own animated Apple TV+ special this month in a story about friendship.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Franklin is a newcomer who bonds with Charlie Brown and is welcomed to the \u003cem>Peanuts\u003c/em> universe in \u003cem>Snoopy Presents: Welcome Home, Franklin\u003c/em>, which premieres on Friday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"arts_13852729","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Co-writer \u003ca href=\"https://www.robbarmstrong.com/\">Robb Armstrong\u003c/a>, the cartoonist behind the \u003cem>JumpStart\u003c/em> strip, says he’s building on the blueprints that \u003cem>Peanuts\u003c/em> creator Charles Schulz left. “Whenever you start with good ingredients, you have to work hard to make a bad cake out of it,” he says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Race is never explicitly mentioned but Armstrong and co-writer Scott Montgomery make a subtle nod when Franklin surveys the kids in his new town and remarks, “One thing was for sure: There was a lack of variety in this place.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I never wanted to come off preachy or anything, but it needed to be handled in the same way that I handled it in \u003cem>JumpStart\u003c/em>,” says Armstrong. “I don’t come out and call people anything. I let the characters participate in a problem solving process.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The portrait of Franklin that emerges is of a boy who likes baseball and outer space, is good with his hands and listens to Stevie Wonder, Little Richard, James Brown and John Coltrane.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When he arrives in town, he’s tired of a life constantly moving, since his father’s military job takes them from location to location. “I have lived in lot of different places but none that I can call home,” he says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But his introduction to the \u003cem>Peanuts\u003c/em> gang initially goes poorly. He mistakes Lucy’s psychiatric booth for a lemonade stand and he freaks Linus out by picking a pumpkin from his patch. “If I didn’t know better, I’d swear I was in \u003cem>The Twilight Zone\u003c/em>,” Franklin says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Every time he’s moved, he’s had to learn how to make friends quick and that meant that he didn’t feel he could ever be his authentic self,” said director and story editor Raymond S. Persi. “So when he comes to this town, his normal tricks don’t work because these are kind of weird kids.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"arts_10870599","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Franklin made his first appearance in the newspaper strip on July 31, 1968, prompted by a request from a school teacher for Schulz to integrate his comic strip world in the wake of the assassination of The Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Schulz introduced him by having Franklin return Charlie Brown’s wayward beach ball one day by the sea. It was a historical meeting and a statement: Many public beaches, like other public facilities such as schools, swimming pools, theaters and restaurants, were segregated at the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The new Apple TV+ special recreates that first meeting, with Franklin returning Charlie Brown’s errant beach ball and then the two building a sandcastle together.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“To have this very simple idea of two children who don’t know about racism, having fun playing at the beach, building something together, I think was just so smart,” said Persi.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/Go'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/Go'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>Franklin and Charlie Brown soon enter a soap box derby competition and their friendship is tested before a deep bond is forged. “They’re not perfect. I’m not perfect. But we can get through the rough spots together, as friends,” Franklin says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“What I really like about the special is you’re getting a chance to see this friendship kind of grow in real time, in the way that real friendships do,” says Persi, who has directed animated projects with \u003cem>The Simpsons\u003c/em>, Mickey Mouse and the Minions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As usual for a \u003cem>Peanuts\u003c/em> show, music plays a key role. Original music by Jeff Morrow leans into sophisticated jazz and, in nods to Franklin, Berry’s “Johnny B. Goode,” “Nothing from Nothing” by Billy Preston and some Coltrane playing on a jukebox.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"arts_13938421","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Armstrong has also used the special to correct some misperceptions about the 1973 classic \u003cem>A Charlie Brown Thanksgiving\u003c/em>. In that special, Franklin sits by himself on one side of the Thanksgiving table, leading some to suggest he’s not been fully embraced. In the new special, Franklin is specifically asked to come sit with his new pals on their side during a pizza party celebration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Armstrong says he started with that scene and then had to figure out how the gang got there. The writers came up with a soap box derby. “We needed something that was very highly action-oriented and packed with great risk. It had to be a competition,” Armstrong says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The special has plenty of lessons for kids and adults — winning isn’t everything, friendships can be messy but rewarding, and be your authentic self.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“What I’d like people to get out of it is that you don’t have to be something different for other people. Being yourself is what’s going to bring the right people into your lives,” says Persi.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Armstrong, who grew up revering Schulz, has a deep connection to Franklin. He became a cartoonist and a friend to Schulz. It was Schulz himself who asked the younger cartoonist if he would lend his last name to the character. So to have him years later spotlight Franklin in a TV special seems almost divine intervention.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Sometimes a miracle happens,” says Armstrong. “If someone’s got a better answer, I’d love to hear it. I’m just convinced that sometimes God gets involved. And this is that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-medium wp-image-12127869\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-800x78.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"78\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-768x75.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>‘Snoopy Presents: Welcome Home, Franklin’ begins streaming on Apple TV+ on Feb. 16, 2024.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/arts/13952301/franklin-peanuts-special-new-apple-tv-movie","authors":["byline_arts_13952301"],"programs":["arts_140"],"categories":["arts_1","arts_74","arts_75","arts_990"],"tags":["arts_4262","arts_1050","arts_585"],"featImg":"arts_13952302","label":"arts_140"},"arts_13951872":{"type":"posts","id":"arts_13951872","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"arts","id":"13951872","score":null,"sort":[1707420136000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"chelsea-wolfes-new-album-she-reaches-out-to-she-loma-vista","title":"Chelsea Wolfe Says Witchcraft and Sobriety Informed Her Latest Album","publishDate":1707420136,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Chelsea Wolfe Says Witchcraft and Sobriety Informed Her Latest Album | KQED","labelTerm":{"term":140,"site":"arts"},"content":"\u003cp>Often in popular culture, witchcraft is associated with a kind of feminist reclamation of power and spite-fueled revenge.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And although Chelsea Wolfe’s new album is arguably her most spiritual yet, dripping with poetic lyricism about tarot, underworlds and bathing in blood, the process of making it has been marked by a time of healing, joy and relinquishing control.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Over the years, as I’ve embraced a path of witchcraft and following the cycles of the seasons and the cycles of the moon, I put that into my writing process a lot, and I’ve started to share that more because this has been such a positive, wonderful thing in my life,” Wolfe explains.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postid='arts_13951564']Witchcraft’s influence has meant an increased attentiveness to letting each record “be what it wants to be,” the singer, songwriter and musician says — which can sometimes be overtly mystical, like pulling a tarot card for “clarity and guidance” on what she is about to write, or more ostensibly mundane.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Take, for example, her songwriting process for \u003cem>She Reaches Out to She Reaches Out to She\u003c/em>. Although Wolfe frequently brings nearly finished demos to the studio to be fine-tuned and recorded for an album, this time around, she decided to work with producer Dave Sitek, who heavily transformed her rock-sounding songs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This one felt like it wanted to lean more electronic, a little bit more of that trip-hop influence that I’ve dabbled with over the years,” she says of her embrace of the genre which blends hip-hop and electronica.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0o2GraeMlo\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And while Wolfe is pleased with where she allowed those songs to go, it was still difficult to let it happen after years of holding onto them during the pandemic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When you do have a lot of time to sit with the demos, sometimes it can be hard to then give them over to someone and hear all the changes,” she says. “But something about this place in my life and kind of what this record is about, thematically, it just felt right.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Part of what informed this idea of letting go and shedding exoskeletons — “a spectral reminder of all that we’ve become,” she sings in one song — was beginning a journey of sobriety.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postid='arts_114628']“I got sober from alcohol in early 2021, and I had already started this record. It’s interesting to kind of hear the songs that I started before that and the way that they changed,” she recalls. “That created a lot of openness and clarity in my life and my creativity that I just was then naturally channeling into this music. It became a lot about rebirth.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wolfe’s music is hard to categorize, but she is known for her tendency to blend folk music with heavier subgenres like gothic rock and doom metal. She’s aware of the specific taste required for people to enjoy it — “It’s not party music,” she laughs — but has never been afraid to stand her creative ground.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s been collaborations that I’ve been asked to do that I felt like they just weren’t right for me. And maybe it would have given me a lot of exposure or more payment down the line,” she says. “I try to live simply and not have to do things that I don’t feel like I’m aligned with just for money. I know that’s a privilege.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But she has found resourceful ways, in addition to touring, to make a living with which she feels artistically comfortable, such as collaborating with composer Tyler Bates on the soundtrack for the 2022 slasher film, \u003cem>X\u003c/em>, which stars Mia Goth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Director Ti West remembers wanting to experiment with a more avant-garde sound and talking to Bates about how best to achieve it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I kind of pitched this idea to Tyler that it’d be great to have a vocal-driven score,” West says. “It just seemed conceptually like a really weird and interesting idea to not just have the same old horror score that you hear over and over again.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bates, who had admired Wolfe’s music for years and had already worked with her once before, knew she’d be perfect. He came to her with the idea to use her voice to make “percussive sounds” throughout, including laughter, growling and even sexual noises — particularly apt given the movie follows a pornographic film crew in the ‘70s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quXqq2q0MmA\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“She looked at me like, ‘What do you want me to do?’” Bates laughs as he recalls explaining his proposal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But West, aware of their unconventional request, says Wolfe quickly rose to the occasion, making a big difference in the finished film.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s hugely important. Music, certainly in a horror movie, is something that’s going to curate the tone,” West says. “At least for me, it’s something I’m thinking about before I even make the movie.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postid='arts_13950877']Bates teases that he and Wolfe have continued this method in the score for \u003cem>MaXXXine\u003c/em>, the highly anticipated final film of the trilogy, which stars Elizabeth Debicki and singer Halsey alongside Goth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Between working on the \u003cem>MaXXXine\u003c/em> score and gearing up for her album release and upcoming tour, Wolfe has been particularly intentional about taking time for self-reflection and being present amid a busy schedule.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That has of course involved witchcraft, though, like her music, she resists attempts to put walls around what that means.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Witchcraft in itself isn’t a religion. It’s not like we all gather somewhere,” she says. “Just because someone practices witchcraft doesn’t mean that they’re going to resonate with everybody else who does.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-medium wp-image-12127869\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-800x78.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"78\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-768x75.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Chelsea Wolfe’s new album, ‘She Reaches Out to She Reaches Out to She’ is released on Feb. 9, 2024 via Loma Vista Recordings.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"‘She Reaches Out to She Reaches Out to She’ is the seventh studio full-length by the Sacramento-raised artist. ","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1707421203,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":true,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":27,"wordCount":1068},"headData":{"title":"Interview: Chelsea Wolfe Talks Witchcraft and Her New Album | KQED","description":"‘She Reaches Out to She Reaches Out to She’ is the seventh studio full-length by the Sacramento-raised artist. ","ogTitle":"Chelsea Wolfe Says Witchcraft and Sobriety Informed Her Latest Album","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"Chelsea Wolfe Says Witchcraft and Sobriety Informed Her Latest Album","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","socialTitle":"Interview: Chelsea Wolfe Talks Witchcraft and Her New Album %%page%% %%sep%% KQED","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Chelsea Wolfe Says Witchcraft and Sobriety Informed Her Latest Album","datePublished":"2024-02-08T19:22:16.000Z","dateModified":"2024-02-08T19:40:03.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"sticky":false,"nprByline":"Krysta Fauria, Associated Press","templateType":"standard","featuredImageType":"standard","excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","showOnAuthorArchivePages":"No","articleAge":"0","path":"/arts/13951872/chelsea-wolfes-new-album-she-reaches-out-to-she-loma-vista","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Often in popular culture, witchcraft is associated with a kind of feminist reclamation of power and spite-fueled revenge.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And although Chelsea Wolfe’s new album is arguably her most spiritual yet, dripping with poetic lyricism about tarot, underworlds and bathing in blood, the process of making it has been marked by a time of healing, joy and relinquishing control.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Over the years, as I’ve embraced a path of witchcraft and following the cycles of the seasons and the cycles of the moon, I put that into my writing process a lot, and I’ve started to share that more because this has been such a positive, wonderful thing in my life,” Wolfe explains.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"arts_13951564","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Witchcraft’s influence has meant an increased attentiveness to letting each record “be what it wants to be,” the singer, songwriter and musician says — which can sometimes be overtly mystical, like pulling a tarot card for “clarity and guidance” on what she is about to write, or more ostensibly mundane.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Take, for example, her songwriting process for \u003cem>She Reaches Out to She Reaches Out to She\u003c/em>. Although Wolfe frequently brings nearly finished demos to the studio to be fine-tuned and recorded for an album, this time around, she decided to work with producer Dave Sitek, who heavily transformed her rock-sounding songs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This one felt like it wanted to lean more electronic, a little bit more of that trip-hop influence that I’ve dabbled with over the years,” she says of her embrace of the genre which blends hip-hop and electronica.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/L0o2GraeMlo'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/L0o2GraeMlo'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>And while Wolfe is pleased with where she allowed those songs to go, it was still difficult to let it happen after years of holding onto them during the pandemic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When you do have a lot of time to sit with the demos, sometimes it can be hard to then give them over to someone and hear all the changes,” she says. “But something about this place in my life and kind of what this record is about, thematically, it just felt right.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Part of what informed this idea of letting go and shedding exoskeletons — “a spectral reminder of all that we’ve become,” she sings in one song — was beginning a journey of sobriety.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"arts_114628","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“I got sober from alcohol in early 2021, and I had already started this record. It’s interesting to kind of hear the songs that I started before that and the way that they changed,” she recalls. “That created a lot of openness and clarity in my life and my creativity that I just was then naturally channeling into this music. It became a lot about rebirth.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wolfe’s music is hard to categorize, but she is known for her tendency to blend folk music with heavier subgenres like gothic rock and doom metal. She’s aware of the specific taste required for people to enjoy it — “It’s not party music,” she laughs — but has never been afraid to stand her creative ground.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s been collaborations that I’ve been asked to do that I felt like they just weren’t right for me. And maybe it would have given me a lot of exposure or more payment down the line,” she says. “I try to live simply and not have to do things that I don’t feel like I’m aligned with just for money. I know that’s a privilege.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But she has found resourceful ways, in addition to touring, to make a living with which she feels artistically comfortable, such as collaborating with composer Tyler Bates on the soundtrack for the 2022 slasher film, \u003cem>X\u003c/em>, which stars Mia Goth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Director Ti West remembers wanting to experiment with a more avant-garde sound and talking to Bates about how best to achieve it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I kind of pitched this idea to Tyler that it’d be great to have a vocal-driven score,” West says. “It just seemed conceptually like a really weird and interesting idea to not just have the same old horror score that you hear over and over again.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bates, who had admired Wolfe’s music for years and had already worked with her once before, knew she’d be perfect. He came to her with the idea to use her voice to make “percussive sounds” throughout, including laughter, growling and even sexual noises — particularly apt given the movie follows a pornographic film crew in the ‘70s.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/quXqq2q0MmA'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/quXqq2q0MmA'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>“She looked at me like, ‘What do you want me to do?’” Bates laughs as he recalls explaining his proposal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But West, aware of their unconventional request, says Wolfe quickly rose to the occasion, making a big difference in the finished film.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s hugely important. Music, certainly in a horror movie, is something that’s going to curate the tone,” West says. “At least for me, it’s something I’m thinking about before I even make the movie.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"arts_13950877","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Bates teases that he and Wolfe have continued this method in the score for \u003cem>MaXXXine\u003c/em>, the highly anticipated final film of the trilogy, which stars Elizabeth Debicki and singer Halsey alongside Goth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Between working on the \u003cem>MaXXXine\u003c/em> score and gearing up for her album release and upcoming tour, Wolfe has been particularly intentional about taking time for self-reflection and being present amid a busy schedule.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That has of course involved witchcraft, though, like her music, she resists attempts to put walls around what that means.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Witchcraft in itself isn’t a religion. It’s not like we all gather somewhere,” she says. “Just because someone practices witchcraft doesn’t mean that they’re going to resonate with everybody else who does.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-medium wp-image-12127869\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-800x78.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"78\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-768x75.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Chelsea Wolfe’s new album, ‘She Reaches Out to She Reaches Out to She’ is released on Feb. 9, 2024 via Loma Vista Recordings.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/arts/13951872/chelsea-wolfes-new-album-she-reaches-out-to-she-loma-vista","authors":["byline_arts_13951872"],"programs":["arts_140"],"categories":["arts_1","arts_69","arts_75"],"tags":["arts_1050","arts_2624","arts_585"],"featImg":"arts_13951887","label":"arts_140"},"arts_13950866":{"type":"posts","id":"arts_13950866","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"arts","id":"13950866","score":null,"sort":[1706646992000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"jay-caspian-kang-asian-food-san-jose-hella-hungry","title":"Jay Caspian Kang Loves Bay Area Food — But Isn’t Shy About Bashing It","publishDate":1706646992,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Jay Caspian Kang Loves Bay Area Food — But Isn’t Shy About Bashing It | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ci>¡Hella Hungry! is a series of interviews with Bay Area foodmakers exploring the region’s culinary innovations through the mouth of a first-generation local.\u003c/i>\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Inside \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://gangnamtofuusa.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Gangnam Tofu\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a destination-worthy Korean restaurant in an otherwise unremarkable El Cerrito strip mall, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/jaycaspiankang?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jay Caspian Kang\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> orders a round of shareable dishes — galbi, honey-cheese fried chicken and budae jjigae (a wartime-era stew of mixed meats and noodles) — for us to split. As the lunch crowd pours in behind him, Kang tells me why he likes Gangnam over most other Asian eateries in the area: “I just want to eat standard Korean food that’s prepared well.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Though he surprisingly prefers his spicy food mild, the Korean-born \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://goodbye.substack.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">podcast host\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, novelist and \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">New Yorker \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">staff writer serves plenty of hot takes on everything from the shortcomings of technology (he’s an aspiring luddite) to the most underrated rap albums of the past quarter century (he stands with Mos Def in the internet feud against Drake). And when it comes to the hypocrisies of Bay Area politics, he especially \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/london-breeds-cynical-swing-to-the-right\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">doesn’t hold back\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13950802\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13950802\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-09-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-09-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-09-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-09-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-09-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-09-KQED-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-09-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-09-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Best known for articles he’s written for national publications such as the New Yorker, Kang has lived in Berkeley since 2019. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Having settled in Berkeley after years of living in New York City and Los Angeles, Kang has developed a genuine appreciation for the Bay Area’s microcultures. Despite growing up on the East Coast and often writing about topics of national interest, Kang has in many ways become a quintessential Northern Californian: In his free time, you might find him surfing or wandering the aisles at Berkeley Bowl.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And yet, he’s also someone who brings a worldly outsider’s unflinching perspective to controversial Bay Area topics such as the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/what-does-californias-homeless-population-actually-look-like\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">housing crisis\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/28/magazine/where-does-affirmative-action-leave-asian-americans.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">affirmative action\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. He’ll even let you know that \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/jaycaspiankang/status/1740961971498074151\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">the Asian food in Las Vegas is better than the Bay Area’s\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Perhaps \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13950363/keith-lee-tiktok-oakland-sf-bay-area-struggles\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">our region needs that tough love\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> now more than ever.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">While talking to the sports-loving dad and low-key hip-hop historian about the highs and lows of Bay Area living, I remembered why I love this quirky region so deeply, despite its complex truths. Here’s what everyone’s favorite \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/jaycaspiankang\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tyler Hansborough evangelist\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.houseofstrauss.com/p/hos-jay-caspian-kang\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">reformed online troll\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> has to say about the state of the Bay — and its food offerings — in these precarious times.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This interview has been edited for length and clarity.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: center\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">********\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Chazaro: You were born in Korea, grew up in North Carolina and have lived in a ton of places. How long have you been in the Bay Area?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jay Caspian Kang: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I went to college in New England, and then I went to New York for grad school. But after that, I moved out to California and lived here in San Francisco for six, seven years. I was working as a high school teacher. Then I moved to L.A., back to New York, and then right before the pandemic we moved back out here to Berkeley. It’s been four years now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13950796\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13950796\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-03-KQED.jpg\" alt='Hand pointing to the \"honey cheese chicken\" on Korean restaurant menu.' width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-03-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-03-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-03-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-03-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-03-KQED-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-03-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-03-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Perusing the menu at GangNam Tofu . \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>You’ve written about \u003c/b>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/22/magazine/writing-the-wave.html\">\u003cb>your passion for surfing\u003c/b>\u003c/a>\u003cb> in the Bay. What draws you to that?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m not a good surfer, but yeah, I spend most of my time thinking about surfing. For years, I just went to Ocean Beach all the time, and you get used to it and, you know, you learn how to avoid trouble. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I go once or twice a week. That’s the only way you can do it: You have to prioritize it. Or else, if you don’t, then you don’t ever go. If I get a Zoom call, I’ll just cancel that. You have to live with some of the consequences after, but surfing is very necessary for my mental well-being.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>It sounds like you’ve reached some kind of Zen mindstate. Did you achieve that when you were living in Los Angeles?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t really like to drive. And I’ve never liked Hollywood culture. I just find that the people I vibe most with are generally up here.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Who do you think is a good example of the Bay Area’s creativity and open-mindedness?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Look at MC Hammer. He grew up doing that boogaloo style of dancing in East Oakland. He downloaded that as a kid. He blew it up into worldwide fame in a modified kind of way. Now that he’s old, his presence on social media is just showing all these old videos of guys from his neighborhood dancing. I find it amazing that he’s willing to go back and show these kids from his block who were his influences, and he’s basically showing how that made him who he is. That’s community, music coming out of community. He’s interesting because he’s like the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13909788/mc-hammer-oakland-redman-too-short-crips-louis-burrell-mc-serch-hit-e40\">most Oakland dude ever\u003c/a>, but he’s not always seen as being affiliated with that (laughs). \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13950797\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13950797\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-04-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-04-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-04-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-04-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-04-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-04-KQED-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-04-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-04-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Kang and KQED reporter Alan Chazaro put in their order. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>The Bay is weird like that. There’s a lot of different characters here.\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It is weird. It’s interesting how someone like E-40 has become this sort of mascot as a rapper. He’s the dude. He’s like an entire persona. And people love him because he goes to all the games. I’ve never seen Too $hort at a game. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Did you grow up listening to a lot of Bay Area rap out on the East Coast?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I grew up listening to whatever you imagine a 44-year-old man would listen to (laughs). A Tribe Called Quest. Wu-Tang. Mobb Deep. Then you had the Bay Area, so there was like “Blowjob Betty” or whatever, and you would listen to it, and it was crazy because it was just so nasty. Luniz, Del [the Funky Homosapien]. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Del is the one I personally listened to the most. I still listen to him. The Deltron 3030 album is brilliant. The production on that album is \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">fucking\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> crazy. The whole concept is weird. [Bay Area producer] Dan the Automator had been messing with concept albums for a while. That was just a cool kind of rap with enough label support to make weird shit. That was before MF DOOM and all those dudes. It’s like Del imagining the future, and Del is awesome. He kills it. That album is low-key one of the 20 best rap albums ever. I hesitate to put it higher because is it as important as, say, KRS One? I don’t know. Listening to those KRS One albums can feel like you’re just doing your homework. I bet more people enjoyed Deltron 3030.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>What’s more Bay Area than an Asian American producer teaming up with a nerdy Black dude from East Oakland to make a futuristic album about a fictional dystopian society?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Totally. And these guys were getting deeply influenced by the shit that’s happening with \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13812554/how-daly-citys-filipino-mobile-dj-scene-changed-hip-hop-forever\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Filipino DJs in Daly City\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Every city has some version of that, but it’s so interesting in the Bay because it really is so multiracial. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>I wonder if the Bay Area still represents that as much as it once did. You commented on the whole \u003c/b>\u003cb>fiasco with TikTok food critic Keith Lee’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13950363/keith-lee-tiktok-oakland-sf-bay-area-struggles\">recent Bay Area visit\u003c/a>\u003c/b>\u003cb>. He said the Bay is “not a place for tourists” right now. What do you think about that?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s no question that the Bay Area is going through a difficult time right now. If Keith Lee went to the Tenderloin and parts of East Oakland, which it seems like he did — or even if he went to 24th and Mission, which is highly trafficked — people when they come to the Bay Area and see that, it’s shocking to them. You have to be real about it. You don’t see that in New York. You see it in L.A. but it’s mostly in the Skid Row area. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Bay Area has had these issues for a long time, but it was more contained and it didn’t feel like it was as big of a problem. When I moved to San Francisco around 2002, I got off BART at 16th Street. I was like, \u003cem>Wow, this is kind of wild\u003c/em>. And now that has really expanded to a lot of places where a lot more people go. So in the Bay, you get these people coming for conferences or just visiting to see Fisherman’s Wharf, and chances are the hotel is going to be in Union Square or directly in the Tenderloin. So when you leave your hotel, you’re seeing really bad shit. That shocks outsiders and contributes to an unfair narrative. If you put all of the hotels in L.A. on Skid Row, everyone would be saying the same thing about L.A. But at the same time, I think it’s good to bring attention to this problem: We have completely out-of-control homelessness in one of the richest cities in America, and that paradox and contradiction is impossible to resolve.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The way out of it is going to be super messy and will create reactionary elements. People like [\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">San Fransicko \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">author] Michael Shellenberger believe all these \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/Michael-Shellenberger-s-narrative-of-California-17172493.php\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">drug addicts should just be put in jail.\u003c/span>\u003c/a> \u003ca href=\"https://invisiblepeople.tv/san-francisco-mayor-london-breed-joins-calls-to-punish-homeless-people-overturn-martin-v-boise/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">London Breed sometimes feels that way, too\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. But I think overall, those people are underestimating that the San Francisco Bay Area is a very progressive place. They will never accept us locking up these people. And that’s a good thing. The idea that you’re going to lock up the poor and throw away the key, it’s just not going to happen. Right now we’re in a period of extremes: of extreme cynicism and despair. And for good reason, because it’s fucking bad, you know? But I still wouldn’t trade places with anyone to live somewhere else in this country. It’s a trade-off.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13950799\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13950799\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-06-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-06-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-06-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-06-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-06-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-06-KQED-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-06-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-06-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Gangnam Tofu’s version of budae jjigae is a soft tofu stew loaded with sausage and noodles. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Despite our struggles, there’s so much to discover here and so many pockets of rich culture. You actually \u003c/b>\u003cb>had a take\u003c/b>\u003cb> that most of the \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/jaycaspiankang/status/1740965943998927231\">Asian food in the Bay Area is bad\u003c/a>, outside of in San Jose. I’m not sure many outsiders, or even locals, would voice that.\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So here’s the thing. This is just my theory. Immigrant food is only really good in a certain time period after the people who are making it have immigrated here. For example, new Chinese populations in the United States will have much better food in their restaurants, and in those areas where they are living, than older, established Chinese populations. And the reason for that is very simple. It’s that food on the mainland continues to evolve, right? But the immigrants who have been living here for decades don’t. They’re frozen in time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[aside postID='arts_13904835,arts_13950363,arts_13938479']My parents left Korea in 1978, and they never go back except for a little visit throughout 25 years. And by 1999, their understanding of Korean cuisine is basically frozen in 1978, because every single other person who owns a Korean restaurant also came around that same time, because there was a big wave of immigration from ’75 to ’79. I know that in San Francisco you have a multi-generational embedded Chinese population. But at this point, like, what are we even eating? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A lot of Chinese restaurants [in San Francisco] feel like they’re a movie set or something. It’s very charming, but it’s very old school. In the Richmond, there are places you can find that are exceptions to that. But right now, the cradle for the best Chinese food is from Cupertino to Mountain View, all around Silicon Valley. And the reason for that is because there are a lot of new Chinese immigrants that are coming to work there. In addition to that, there’s this \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13904913/vietnamese-drinks-boba-che-guide-san-jose\">Vietnamese mall culture in San Jose\u003c/a>. It’s getting a little old-fashioned, but it’s still super vibrant. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[pullquote size=\"large\" align=\"right\" citation=\"Jay Caspian Kang\"]‘Food on the mainland continues to evolve, right? But the immigrants who have been living here for decades don’t. They’re frozen in time.’[/pullquote]I just don’t find anything like that out here in the East Bay. We have taqueros in people’s backyards, and that’s very distinct and fully immigrant-driven, so that feels fresh in the cycle. But with Korean food, you have all these restaurants, but the issue is that they’ve all been here for so long that nothing has been updated. They’re basically selling food from the ’80s — but Korean food updates, even the standard dishes. When something comes straight from there and lands here, it feels exciting. That doesn’t happen as much up here as it does around San Jose. \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13904835/san-jose-immigrant-food\">The restaurants down there are fire\u003c/a>. Unfortunately I can’t go to Cupertino for lunch.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13950795\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13950795\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-02-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"Two men seated across from each other inside a Korean restaurant.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-02-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-02-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-02-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-02-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-02-KQED-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-02-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-02-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Many Korean restaurants in the Bay Area are selling a version of Korean food that has been frozen in time since the 1980s, Kang says. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>So what are you working on next? What’s on your mind as a locally-based journalist with a national platform?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I write a lot about homelessness, so I’d like to continue to write and think about that. There’s tiny amounts of progress finally being made. It’s actually better than it was. For years here, we kind of felt like it could only get worse. But there are tiny indications things are getting a little bit better, that some of these interventions are working. People are just going to have to get used to the idea that the hotel down the street from their house where nobody ever stayed, that’s now a place for the people in the encampment that you didn’t like. They now live there. If you don’t like that, then I’m sorry. Obviously it’s going to take many, many years. And so following that is very interesting to me. They actually are reversing this thing that seems impossible to fix. I’m also going to write a lot about the upcoming election. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>You’ve had a decades-long career in this industry, which is currently struggling as \u003c/b>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11973593/l-a-times-layoffs-decimate-journalists-of-color\">\u003cb>layoffs are decimating newsrooms across the country\u003c/b>\u003c/a>\u003cb>. What keeps you going?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I feel the need to write a lot. I used to write very infrequently, and I found that I actually enjoyed writing much more. It’s a way to organize one’s life. Having something to put out and putting it out feels good. Sometimes it’s not great, because you might only have a week to do it. But I’m learning to be fine with that and understanding the job is not to make everything perfect. I’ve really embraced that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-12127869\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"78\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-768x75.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"wDYxhc\" lang=\"en-US\" data-attrid=\"kc:/local:lu attribute list\" data-md=\"205\" data-hveid=\"CB4QAA\" data-ved=\"2ahUKEwiGt_a2mIOEAxV_LUQIHYdKB3wQ1rkBegQIHhAA\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"TLYLSe MaBy9\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"CJQ04\">\u003cem>Gangnam Tofu Korean Cuisine (11740 San Pablo Ave. Suite C, El Cerrito) is open Mon.–Fri. from 11:30 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. and 5 to 9 p.m.; Sat. and Sun. from 11:30 a.m. to 9 p.m.\u003c/em>\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"The Berkeley writer riffs on Bay Area rap, the housing crisis and why San Jose has the region's best Asian food.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1706659950,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":39,"wordCount":2696},"headData":{"title":"Jay Caspian Kang Shares His Hot Takes on Bay Area Food | KQED","description":"The Berkeley writer riffs on Bay Area rap, the housing crisis and why San Jose has the region's best Asian food.","ogTitle":"Jay Caspian Kang Loves Bay Area Food — But Isn’t Shy About Bashing It","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"Jay Caspian Kang Loves Bay Area Food — But Isn’t Shy About Bashing It","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","socialTitle":"Jay Caspian Kang Shares His Hot Takes on Bay Area Food%%page%% %%sep%% KQED","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Jay Caspian Kang Loves Bay Area Food — But Isn’t Shy About Bashing It","datePublished":"2024-01-30T20:36:32.000Z","dateModified":"2024-01-31T00:12:30.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"source":"¡Hella Hungry!","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/arts/tag/hella-hungry","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/arts/13950866/jay-caspian-kang-asian-food-san-jose-hella-hungry","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ci>¡Hella Hungry! is a series of interviews with Bay Area foodmakers exploring the region’s culinary innovations through the mouth of a first-generation local.\u003c/i>\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Inside \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://gangnamtofuusa.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Gangnam Tofu\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, a destination-worthy Korean restaurant in an otherwise unremarkable El Cerrito strip mall, \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/jaycaspiankang?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jay Caspian Kang\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> orders a round of shareable dishes — galbi, honey-cheese fried chicken and budae jjigae (a wartime-era stew of mixed meats and noodles) — for us to split. As the lunch crowd pours in behind him, Kang tells me why he likes Gangnam over most other Asian eateries in the area: “I just want to eat standard Korean food that’s prepared well.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Though he surprisingly prefers his spicy food mild, the Korean-born \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://goodbye.substack.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">podcast host\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, novelist and \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">New Yorker \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">staff writer serves plenty of hot takes on everything from the shortcomings of technology (he’s an aspiring luddite) to the most underrated rap albums of the past quarter century (he stands with Mos Def in the internet feud against Drake). And when it comes to the hypocrisies of Bay Area politics, he especially \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/london-breeds-cynical-swing-to-the-right\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">doesn’t hold back\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13950802\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13950802\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-09-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-09-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-09-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-09-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-09-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-09-KQED-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-09-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-09-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Best known for articles he’s written for national publications such as the New Yorker, Kang has lived in Berkeley since 2019. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Having settled in Berkeley after years of living in New York City and Los Angeles, Kang has developed a genuine appreciation for the Bay Area’s microcultures. Despite growing up on the East Coast and often writing about topics of national interest, Kang has in many ways become a quintessential Northern Californian: In his free time, you might find him surfing or wandering the aisles at Berkeley Bowl.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And yet, he’s also someone who brings a worldly outsider’s unflinching perspective to controversial Bay Area topics such as the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/what-does-californias-homeless-population-actually-look-like\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">housing crisis\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/28/magazine/where-does-affirmative-action-leave-asian-americans.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">affirmative action\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. He’ll even let you know that \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/jaycaspiankang/status/1740961971498074151\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">the Asian food in Las Vegas is better than the Bay Area’s\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Perhaps \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13950363/keith-lee-tiktok-oakland-sf-bay-area-struggles\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">our region needs that tough love\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> now more than ever.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">While talking to the sports-loving dad and low-key hip-hop historian about the highs and lows of Bay Area living, I remembered why I love this quirky region so deeply, despite its complex truths. Here’s what everyone’s favorite \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/jaycaspiankang\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tyler Hansborough evangelist\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.houseofstrauss.com/p/hos-jay-caspian-kang\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">reformed online troll\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> has to say about the state of the Bay — and its food offerings — in these precarious times.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This interview has been edited for length and clarity.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: center\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">********\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Chazaro: You were born in Korea, grew up in North Carolina and have lived in a ton of places. How long have you been in the Bay Area?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jay Caspian Kang: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I went to college in New England, and then I went to New York for grad school. But after that, I moved out to California and lived here in San Francisco for six, seven years. I was working as a high school teacher. Then I moved to L.A., back to New York, and then right before the pandemic we moved back out here to Berkeley. It’s been four years now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13950796\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13950796\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-03-KQED.jpg\" alt='Hand pointing to the \"honey cheese chicken\" on Korean restaurant menu.' width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-03-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-03-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-03-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-03-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-03-KQED-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-03-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-03-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Perusing the menu at GangNam Tofu . \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>You’ve written about \u003c/b>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/22/magazine/writing-the-wave.html\">\u003cb>your passion for surfing\u003c/b>\u003c/a>\u003cb> in the Bay. What draws you to that?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m not a good surfer, but yeah, I spend most of my time thinking about surfing. For years, I just went to Ocean Beach all the time, and you get used to it and, you know, you learn how to avoid trouble. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I go once or twice a week. That’s the only way you can do it: You have to prioritize it. Or else, if you don’t, then you don’t ever go. If I get a Zoom call, I’ll just cancel that. You have to live with some of the consequences after, but surfing is very necessary for my mental well-being.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>It sounds like you’ve reached some kind of Zen mindstate. Did you achieve that when you were living in Los Angeles?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t really like to drive. And I’ve never liked Hollywood culture. I just find that the people I vibe most with are generally up here.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Who do you think is a good example of the Bay Area’s creativity and open-mindedness?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Look at MC Hammer. He grew up doing that boogaloo style of dancing in East Oakland. He downloaded that as a kid. He blew it up into worldwide fame in a modified kind of way. Now that he’s old, his presence on social media is just showing all these old videos of guys from his neighborhood dancing. I find it amazing that he’s willing to go back and show these kids from his block who were his influences, and he’s basically showing how that made him who he is. That’s community, music coming out of community. He’s interesting because he’s like the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13909788/mc-hammer-oakland-redman-too-short-crips-louis-burrell-mc-serch-hit-e40\">most Oakland dude ever\u003c/a>, but he’s not always seen as being affiliated with that (laughs). \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13950797\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13950797\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-04-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-04-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-04-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-04-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-04-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-04-KQED-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-04-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-04-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Kang and KQED reporter Alan Chazaro put in their order. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>The Bay is weird like that. There’s a lot of different characters here.\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It is weird. It’s interesting how someone like E-40 has become this sort of mascot as a rapper. He’s the dude. He’s like an entire persona. And people love him because he goes to all the games. I’ve never seen Too $hort at a game. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Did you grow up listening to a lot of Bay Area rap out on the East Coast?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I grew up listening to whatever you imagine a 44-year-old man would listen to (laughs). A Tribe Called Quest. Wu-Tang. Mobb Deep. Then you had the Bay Area, so there was like “Blowjob Betty” or whatever, and you would listen to it, and it was crazy because it was just so nasty. Luniz, Del [the Funky Homosapien]. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Del is the one I personally listened to the most. I still listen to him. The Deltron 3030 album is brilliant. The production on that album is \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">fucking\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> crazy. The whole concept is weird. [Bay Area producer] Dan the Automator had been messing with concept albums for a while. That was just a cool kind of rap with enough label support to make weird shit. That was before MF DOOM and all those dudes. It’s like Del imagining the future, and Del is awesome. He kills it. That album is low-key one of the 20 best rap albums ever. I hesitate to put it higher because is it as important as, say, KRS One? I don’t know. Listening to those KRS One albums can feel like you’re just doing your homework. I bet more people enjoyed Deltron 3030.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>What’s more Bay Area than an Asian American producer teaming up with a nerdy Black dude from East Oakland to make a futuristic album about a fictional dystopian society?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Totally. And these guys were getting deeply influenced by the shit that’s happening with \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13812554/how-daly-citys-filipino-mobile-dj-scene-changed-hip-hop-forever\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Filipino DJs in Daly City\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Every city has some version of that, but it’s so interesting in the Bay because it really is so multiracial. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>I wonder if the Bay Area still represents that as much as it once did. You commented on the whole \u003c/b>\u003cb>fiasco with TikTok food critic Keith Lee’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13950363/keith-lee-tiktok-oakland-sf-bay-area-struggles\">recent Bay Area visit\u003c/a>\u003c/b>\u003cb>. He said the Bay is “not a place for tourists” right now. What do you think about that?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s no question that the Bay Area is going through a difficult time right now. If Keith Lee went to the Tenderloin and parts of East Oakland, which it seems like he did — or even if he went to 24th and Mission, which is highly trafficked — people when they come to the Bay Area and see that, it’s shocking to them. You have to be real about it. You don’t see that in New York. You see it in L.A. but it’s mostly in the Skid Row area. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Bay Area has had these issues for a long time, but it was more contained and it didn’t feel like it was as big of a problem. When I moved to San Francisco around 2002, I got off BART at 16th Street. I was like, \u003cem>Wow, this is kind of wild\u003c/em>. And now that has really expanded to a lot of places where a lot more people go. So in the Bay, you get these people coming for conferences or just visiting to see Fisherman’s Wharf, and chances are the hotel is going to be in Union Square or directly in the Tenderloin. So when you leave your hotel, you’re seeing really bad shit. That shocks outsiders and contributes to an unfair narrative. If you put all of the hotels in L.A. on Skid Row, everyone would be saying the same thing about L.A. But at the same time, I think it’s good to bring attention to this problem: We have completely out-of-control homelessness in one of the richest cities in America, and that paradox and contradiction is impossible to resolve.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The way out of it is going to be super messy and will create reactionary elements. People like [\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">San Fransicko \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">author] Michael Shellenberger believe all these \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/Michael-Shellenberger-s-narrative-of-California-17172493.php\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">drug addicts should just be put in jail.\u003c/span>\u003c/a> \u003ca href=\"https://invisiblepeople.tv/san-francisco-mayor-london-breed-joins-calls-to-punish-homeless-people-overturn-martin-v-boise/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">London Breed sometimes feels that way, too\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. But I think overall, those people are underestimating that the San Francisco Bay Area is a very progressive place. They will never accept us locking up these people. And that’s a good thing. The idea that you’re going to lock up the poor and throw away the key, it’s just not going to happen. Right now we’re in a period of extremes: of extreme cynicism and despair. And for good reason, because it’s fucking bad, you know? But I still wouldn’t trade places with anyone to live somewhere else in this country. It’s a trade-off.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13950799\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13950799\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-06-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-06-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-06-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-06-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-06-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-06-KQED-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-06-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-06-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Gangnam Tofu’s version of budae jjigae is a soft tofu stew loaded with sausage and noodles. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Despite our struggles, there’s so much to discover here and so many pockets of rich culture. You actually \u003c/b>\u003cb>had a take\u003c/b>\u003cb> that most of the \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/jaycaspiankang/status/1740965943998927231\">Asian food in the Bay Area is bad\u003c/a>, outside of in San Jose. I’m not sure many outsiders, or even locals, would voice that.\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So here’s the thing. This is just my theory. Immigrant food is only really good in a certain time period after the people who are making it have immigrated here. For example, new Chinese populations in the United States will have much better food in their restaurants, and in those areas where they are living, than older, established Chinese populations. And the reason for that is very simple. It’s that food on the mainland continues to evolve, right? But the immigrants who have been living here for decades don’t. They’re frozen in time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"arts_13904835,arts_13950363,arts_13938479","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>My parents left Korea in 1978, and they never go back except for a little visit throughout 25 years. And by 1999, their understanding of Korean cuisine is basically frozen in 1978, because every single other person who owns a Korean restaurant also came around that same time, because there was a big wave of immigration from ’75 to ’79. I know that in San Francisco you have a multi-generational embedded Chinese population. But at this point, like, what are we even eating? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A lot of Chinese restaurants [in San Francisco] feel like they’re a movie set or something. It’s very charming, but it’s very old school. In the Richmond, there are places you can find that are exceptions to that. But right now, the cradle for the best Chinese food is from Cupertino to Mountain View, all around Silicon Valley. And the reason for that is because there are a lot of new Chinese immigrants that are coming to work there. In addition to that, there’s this \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13904913/vietnamese-drinks-boba-che-guide-san-jose\">Vietnamese mall culture in San Jose\u003c/a>. It’s getting a little old-fashioned, but it’s still super vibrant. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"‘Food on the mainland continues to evolve, right? But the immigrants who have been living here for decades don’t. They’re frozen in time.’","name":"pullquote","attributes":{"named":{"size":"large","align":"right","citation":"Jay Caspian Kang","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>I just don’t find anything like that out here in the East Bay. We have taqueros in people’s backyards, and that’s very distinct and fully immigrant-driven, so that feels fresh in the cycle. But with Korean food, you have all these restaurants, but the issue is that they’ve all been here for so long that nothing has been updated. They’re basically selling food from the ’80s — but Korean food updates, even the standard dishes. When something comes straight from there and lands here, it feels exciting. That doesn’t happen as much up here as it does around San Jose. \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13904835/san-jose-immigrant-food\">The restaurants down there are fire\u003c/a>. Unfortunately I can’t go to Cupertino for lunch.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13950795\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13950795\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-02-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"Two men seated across from each other inside a Korean restaurant.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-02-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-02-KQED-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-02-KQED-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-02-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-02-KQED-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-02-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/01/240122-GAGNAM-TOFU-MD-02-KQED-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Many Korean restaurants in the Bay Area are selling a version of Korean food that has been frozen in time since the 1980s, Kang says. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>So what are you working on next? What’s on your mind as a locally-based journalist with a national platform?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I write a lot about homelessness, so I’d like to continue to write and think about that. There’s tiny amounts of progress finally being made. It’s actually better than it was. For years here, we kind of felt like it could only get worse. But there are tiny indications things are getting a little bit better, that some of these interventions are working. People are just going to have to get used to the idea that the hotel down the street from their house where nobody ever stayed, that’s now a place for the people in the encampment that you didn’t like. They now live there. If you don’t like that, then I’m sorry. Obviously it’s going to take many, many years. And so following that is very interesting to me. They actually are reversing this thing that seems impossible to fix. I’m also going to write a lot about the upcoming election. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>You’ve had a decades-long career in this industry, which is currently struggling as \u003c/b>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11973593/l-a-times-layoffs-decimate-journalists-of-color\">\u003cb>layoffs are decimating newsrooms across the country\u003c/b>\u003c/a>\u003cb>. What keeps you going?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I feel the need to write a lot. I used to write very infrequently, and I found that I actually enjoyed writing much more. It’s a way to organize one’s life. Having something to put out and putting it out feels good. Sometimes it’s not great, because you might only have a week to do it. But I’m learning to be fine with that and understanding the job is not to make everything perfect. I’ve really embraced that.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-12127869\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"78\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-768x75.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"wDYxhc\" lang=\"en-US\" data-attrid=\"kc:/local:lu attribute list\" data-md=\"205\" data-hveid=\"CB4QAA\" data-ved=\"2ahUKEwiGt_a2mIOEAxV_LUQIHYdKB3wQ1rkBegQIHhAA\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"TLYLSe MaBy9\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"CJQ04\">\u003cem>Gangnam Tofu Korean Cuisine (11740 San Pablo Ave. Suite C, El Cerrito) is open Mon.–Fri. from 11:30 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. and 5 to 9 p.m.; Sat. and Sun. from 11:30 a.m. to 9 p.m.\u003c/em>\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/arts/13950866/jay-caspian-kang-asian-food-san-jose-hella-hungry","authors":["11748"],"categories":["arts_1","arts_12276"],"tags":["arts_5397","arts_1270","arts_19355","arts_10278","arts_1297","arts_17573","arts_1050","arts_15803","arts_1146","arts_1084"],"featImg":"arts_13951125","label":"source_arts_13950866"},"arts_13951141":{"type":"posts","id":"arts_13951141","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"arts","id":"13951141","score":null,"sort":[1706559285000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"sohla-el-waylly-cookbook-start-here-bay-area-interview","title":"Sohla El-Waylly Cements Her Starring Role With a Thrilling Debut Cookbook","publishDate":1706559285,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Sohla El-Waylly Cements Her Starring Role With a Thrilling Debut Cookbook | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>Sohla El-Waylly is a culinary maverick of our time: She knows how to deactivate the surface starches of rice for the perfect pilaf, she’s made crudités sexy by sheer force of will and she’s spoken truth to power with lasting impacts.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>El-Waylly’s highly-anticipated first cookbook, \u003ci>Start Here: Instructions for Becoming a Better Cook\u003c/i>, is the this-is-just-the-beginning hat tip of a chef who’s quickly won over the hearts of home cooks all over the world — and who’s already planning her next book.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Back in 2020, El-Waylly said she wasn’t being equitably compensated for her work as an assistant food editor at Bon Appetit, a public statement that became a part of a much larger racial reckoning in food media. It also launched \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNnBPM0Y9gU&ab_channel=Natalie\">fan-made supercuts\u003c/a> of every time El-Waylly was called over by white colleagues to temper chocolate or give her expert advice on using masa harina, all uncompensated. It’s the classic story of an undervalued woman of color shamelessly confused with the other South Asian woman in the office by her own boss — but onstage at the 92nd Street Y \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sj7L30851Q&ab_channel=LisaPhamFlowers\">for the whole internet to see\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>El-Waylly launched herself out of Bon Appetit and into everywhere else: \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i7fVY596mY&t=152s\">Food 52\u003c/a>, the History Channel, the \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybNex3XsgFc&t=73s&ab_channel=NYTCooking\">New York Times Cooking channel\u003c/a>, the \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXnlVlkkkxM&ab_channel=BabishCulinaryUniverse\">Babish Culinary Universe\u003c/a> and an HBO series that she co-hosted with actor Dan Levy. Her obvious culinary mastery that doesn’t stop at how to cook something but why you cook it that way — on a chemical level — coupled with her punchy witticisms and flaky salt-of-the-earth sincerity has earned her prime time in the pantheon of unmistakably cool internet personalities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I always struggled to learn the way I was \u003ci>supposed\u003c/i> to learn, whether in the high school geography class I had to repeat or in a restaurant kitchen following a chef’s blunt commands,” she writes in the book’s introduction.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What emerges from El-Waylly’s candid trove of fumbles and failures is a person who really knows what she’s talking about — who can tell you exactly where you went wrong because she’s been there herself.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ahead of her San Francisco book tour appearances on January 29 and 30, I talked to El-Waylly about how to host a dinner party that will cure winter blues and what she ate the last time she visited the Bay, as a depressed undergrad over 20 years ago.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This interview has been edited for length and clarity\u003c/i>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: center\">********\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>OLIVIA CRUZ MAYEDA:\u003c/b> Your new cookbook weaves in guidance and anecdotes that feel resonant in the kitchen and outside it, too. What do you hope people take with them from \u003ci>Start Here\u003c/i> as they move through the world?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>SOHLA EL-WAYLLY: \u003c/b>I think the biggest message is that you’re going to mess up, and it’s going to be okay — that’s the main thing. I think that a lot of times people don’t even try stuff because they’re afraid of failing or just not being good at it. But I think it’s important to remember that everyone’s terrible at everything in the beginning, and you just have to push through that phase of maybe making a lot of bad food, and it will eventually get good. I think that really applies to everything in life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cblockquote class=\"tiktok-embed\" style=\"max-width: 605px;min-width: 325px\" cite=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@sohlae/video/7283990481220963626\" data-video-id=\"7283990481220963626\">\n\u003csection>\u003ca title=\"@sohlae\" href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@sohlae?refer=embed\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">@sohlae\u003c/a> Here’s another peek from my cookbook, START HERE! (Have you preordered yet!?) In it, I teach you techniques, so eventually you won’t need recipes any more! Like this method for the best crispy, juicy, seared & braised chicken thighs. Make it like me with salsa verde and zucchini, or make it your own with cauliflower & curry, carrots & bone broth, or however the hell you want! Photos @Laura hi \u003ca title=\"♬ Sweet Dreams - Trinix\" href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/music/Sweet-Dreams-6795037315535210498?refer=embed\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">♬ Sweet Dreams – Trinix\u003c/a>\u003c/section>\n\u003c/blockquote>\n\u003cp>[tiktok]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>The \u003c/b>\u003cb>\u003ci>New York Times\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003cb> called your cookbook “the new \u003c/b>\u003cb>\u003ci>Joy of Cooking\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003cb>.” What cookbooks or food personalities most influenced you when you were starting out?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Every day after school, I’d watch Jacques Torres. He had this show on PBS called “Desert Circus.” It had a really fun intro, and he’d roll around on roller skates. He did a chocolate sculpture once, and he had all these molds. And then he was like, “Anything can be a mold.” And he grabbed that air conditioner filter and molded chocolate on that, so then I went and I grabbed the filter out of the air conditioner! A lot of people can be a little rigid and, especially with pastry, be like, “You have to get this piping tip,” you know, “and you need this cake pan.” But he showed how you can make things work with what you have. And I feel like that really inspired me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>What are you looking forward to during your visit to the Bay Area? Any foods in particular?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Well, I haven’t been in a really long time, but I went to school at UC Irvine. And I was really depressed. So the thing to do was to just drive to San Francisco all the way up [the Pacific Coast Highway]. And then get clam chowder at, like, five in the morning. I want to go to that pier that I went to and try to get some clam chowder.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>I first encountered your work when you were still working at Bon Appetit, where you were part of a racial reckoning at the publication but also in food media at large. Do you feel like any meaningful change has happened since then?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It does feel like there’s more diverse voices that are out there now. But I think that the biggest thing — and I don’t even think this has anything to do with anything I did or anything that happened — is just that people have their own platforms now. With social media, the people are picking who gets to be uplifted. I really like that there’s a lot of cool independent creators who I don’t think would have had a huge voice with traditional media. One of my favorite people is — Black Forager is her handle — \u003ca href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@alexisnikole?lang=en\">Alexis Nicole\u003c/a>. I love her. I learn so much from her videos. And she’s someone that did it completely on her own, and the people picked her. I just love that there’s more and more voices like that because we don’t need the traditional media anymore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>I\u003c/i> only exist because of the people who support me. I know that. And it’s really heartwarming that I have this support and this really loving community. And it’s also scary because I hope I’m giving them enough, you know what I mean? I totally exist because of individuals who believe in me, not because of one big, faceless corporation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.instagram.com/p/CzKW8Xov-Or/?igsh=ZWI2YzEzYmMxYg%3D%3D\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>There’s so much heaviness in the world right now from the Congo to Sudan to Palestine. You signed onto — along with Berkeley chef Samin Nosrat — the \u003c/b>\u003ca href=\"https://www.hospitality-for-humanity.com/\">\u003cb>Hospitality for Humanity\u003c/b>\u003c/a>\u003cb> pledge, a coalition of food and beverage workers calling for a ceasefire in Gaza, co-organized by another Bay Area chef, Reem Assil. How do you hope food and chefs can play a role in social justice and political organizing?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s tough. I feel like a lot of what happens is people just repost things, which I also was doing for a while, but I stopped because I saw a lot of prominent people who posted misinformation by accident with the best intentions because we’re not journalists, we’re not politicians. It’s easy to not know exactly what’s a real post.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So I think the better way is just to focus on bringing awareness with what we do best, which is food. And I think it’s really important, especially with what’s happening in Palestine, to humanize the people there by just sharing more of their culture. I like talking about the food and celebrating the positive things that are happening over there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>I love the deep dives into food history and food science that feel like throughlines in your work. Is there anything you’ve been nerding out about recently?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[aside postID='arts_13921460,arts_13919177,arts_13926618']\u003c/span>Well, I’m currently working on my next book. The first one, I knew exactly what I wanted the book to accomplish. So for the next book, I don’t really have a plan, and I’m just letting myself learn about things that are interesting to me, and I’m just cooking stuff that I’m into. So I’ve just really been into princess cake lately. I’ve always seen them, but the ones from the grocery store are usually not very good, if we’re being totally honest. That marzipan is a little stale. But making a fresh one kind of blew me away with how delicious it is. So now I just want to learn more about princess cake and marzipan. I want to be someone where anytime you come over to my house — even if it’s a Tuesday — I made you a princess cake.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>I’m having a small dinner party tomorrow with a few friends. What’s a menu from recipes in your book that you’d recommend for a vibey but not super high-maintenance dinner to cure our winter blues?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think for appetizers, there’s a shrimp cocktail in the book that’s really fun, and broiled oysters. But most of the time when we have people over, I can’t wrap my head around all that. So I’ll make a quick crudités plate. I love having some crunchy veg before a meal because it’s kind of like palate cleanser vibes. Try radishes and some Asian pear. There’s a ranch fun dip recipe in the book using pistachios — that’s fantastic. So put all the veggies on ice and get a nice glass bowl for the fun dip. People don’t give crudités respect, but you can make it really sexy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For the main, maybe make those braised short ribs. You can make them the same day, but they are a lot better if you dry-brine them tonight. And then I really like to serve that with steamed vegetables, like some really nice broccolini and carrots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And then dessert: I think you should go for the chocolate pudding pie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-12127869\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"78\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-768x75.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>El-Waylly will be signing copies of \u003c/i>Start Here\u003ci> at \u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://omnivorebooks.myshopify.com/products/sohla-el-waylly-book-signing-start-here-instructions-for-becoming-a-better-cook\">\u003ci>Omnivore Books\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci> (3885 Cesar Chavez St., San Francisco) at 4 p.m. on January 30, following her \u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.jccsf.org/event/sohla-el-waylly-start-here/\">\u003ci>sold-out book event\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci> at the Jewish Community Center of San Francisco on January 29.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"The culinary maverick reflects on transformations in food media, Palestine and her next cookbook. ","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1706559431,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":31,"wordCount":1892},"headData":{"title":"Sohla El-Waylly Cements Her Starring Role With a Thrilling Debut Cookbook | KQED","description":"The culinary maverick reflects on transformations in food media, Palestine and her next cookbook. ","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Sohla El-Waylly Cements Her Starring Role With a Thrilling Debut Cookbook","datePublished":"2024-01-29T20:14:45.000Z","dateModified":"2024-01-29T20:17:11.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"source":"Food","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/food","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/arts/13951141/sohla-el-waylly-cookbook-start-here-bay-area-interview","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Sohla El-Waylly is a culinary maverick of our time: She knows how to deactivate the surface starches of rice for the perfect pilaf, she’s made crudités sexy by sheer force of will and she’s spoken truth to power with lasting impacts.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>El-Waylly’s highly-anticipated first cookbook, \u003ci>Start Here: Instructions for Becoming a Better Cook\u003c/i>, is the this-is-just-the-beginning hat tip of a chef who’s quickly won over the hearts of home cooks all over the world — and who’s already planning her next book.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Back in 2020, El-Waylly said she wasn’t being equitably compensated for her work as an assistant food editor at Bon Appetit, a public statement that became a part of a much larger racial reckoning in food media. It also launched \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNnBPM0Y9gU&ab_channel=Natalie\">fan-made supercuts\u003c/a> of every time El-Waylly was called over by white colleagues to temper chocolate or give her expert advice on using masa harina, all uncompensated. It’s the classic story of an undervalued woman of color shamelessly confused with the other South Asian woman in the office by her own boss — but onstage at the 92nd Street Y \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sj7L30851Q&ab_channel=LisaPhamFlowers\">for the whole internet to see\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>El-Waylly launched herself out of Bon Appetit and into everywhere else: \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i7fVY596mY&t=152s\">Food 52\u003c/a>, the History Channel, the \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybNex3XsgFc&t=73s&ab_channel=NYTCooking\">New York Times Cooking channel\u003c/a>, the \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXnlVlkkkxM&ab_channel=BabishCulinaryUniverse\">Babish Culinary Universe\u003c/a> and an HBO series that she co-hosted with actor Dan Levy. Her obvious culinary mastery that doesn’t stop at how to cook something but why you cook it that way — on a chemical level — coupled with her punchy witticisms and flaky salt-of-the-earth sincerity has earned her prime time in the pantheon of unmistakably cool internet personalities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I always struggled to learn the way I was \u003ci>supposed\u003c/i> to learn, whether in the high school geography class I had to repeat or in a restaurant kitchen following a chef’s blunt commands,” she writes in the book’s introduction.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What emerges from El-Waylly’s candid trove of fumbles and failures is a person who really knows what she’s talking about — who can tell you exactly where you went wrong because she’s been there herself.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ahead of her San Francisco book tour appearances on January 29 and 30, I talked to El-Waylly about how to host a dinner party that will cure winter blues and what she ate the last time she visited the Bay, as a depressed undergrad over 20 years ago.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This interview has been edited for length and clarity\u003c/i>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: center\">********\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>OLIVIA CRUZ MAYEDA:\u003c/b> Your new cookbook weaves in guidance and anecdotes that feel resonant in the kitchen and outside it, too. What do you hope people take with them from \u003ci>Start Here\u003c/i> as they move through the world?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>SOHLA EL-WAYLLY: \u003c/b>I think the biggest message is that you’re going to mess up, and it’s going to be okay — that’s the main thing. I think that a lot of times people don’t even try stuff because they’re afraid of failing or just not being good at it. But I think it’s important to remember that everyone’s terrible at everything in the beginning, and you just have to push through that phase of maybe making a lot of bad food, and it will eventually get good. I think that really applies to everything in life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cblockquote class=\"tiktok-embed\" style=\"max-width: 605px;min-width: 325px\" cite=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@sohlae/video/7283990481220963626\" data-video-id=\"7283990481220963626\">\n\u003csection>\u003ca title=\"@sohlae\" href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@sohlae?refer=embed\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">@sohlae\u003c/a> Here’s another peek from my cookbook, START HERE! (Have you preordered yet!?) In it, I teach you techniques, so eventually you won’t need recipes any more! Like this method for the best crispy, juicy, seared & braised chicken thighs. Make it like me with salsa verde and zucchini, or make it your own with cauliflower & curry, carrots & bone broth, or however the hell you want! Photos @Laura hi \u003ca title=\"♬ Sweet Dreams - Trinix\" href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/music/Sweet-Dreams-6795037315535210498?refer=embed\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">♬ Sweet Dreams – Trinix\u003c/a>\u003c/section>\n\u003c/blockquote>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"tiktok","attributes":{"named":{"label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>The \u003c/b>\u003cb>\u003ci>New York Times\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003cb> called your cookbook “the new \u003c/b>\u003cb>\u003ci>Joy of Cooking\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003cb>.” What cookbooks or food personalities most influenced you when you were starting out?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Every day after school, I’d watch Jacques Torres. He had this show on PBS called “Desert Circus.” It had a really fun intro, and he’d roll around on roller skates. He did a chocolate sculpture once, and he had all these molds. And then he was like, “Anything can be a mold.” And he grabbed that air conditioner filter and molded chocolate on that, so then I went and I grabbed the filter out of the air conditioner! A lot of people can be a little rigid and, especially with pastry, be like, “You have to get this piping tip,” you know, “and you need this cake pan.” But he showed how you can make things work with what you have. And I feel like that really inspired me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>What are you looking forward to during your visit to the Bay Area? Any foods in particular?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Well, I haven’t been in a really long time, but I went to school at UC Irvine. And I was really depressed. So the thing to do was to just drive to San Francisco all the way up [the Pacific Coast Highway]. And then get clam chowder at, like, five in the morning. I want to go to that pier that I went to and try to get some clam chowder.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>I first encountered your work when you were still working at Bon Appetit, where you were part of a racial reckoning at the publication but also in food media at large. Do you feel like any meaningful change has happened since then?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It does feel like there’s more diverse voices that are out there now. But I think that the biggest thing — and I don’t even think this has anything to do with anything I did or anything that happened — is just that people have their own platforms now. With social media, the people are picking who gets to be uplifted. I really like that there’s a lot of cool independent creators who I don’t think would have had a huge voice with traditional media. One of my favorite people is — Black Forager is her handle — \u003ca href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@alexisnikole?lang=en\">Alexis Nicole\u003c/a>. I love her. I learn so much from her videos. And she’s someone that did it completely on her own, and the people picked her. I just love that there’s more and more voices like that because we don’t need the traditional media anymore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>I\u003c/i> only exist because of the people who support me. I know that. And it’s really heartwarming that I have this support and this really loving community. And it’s also scary because I hope I’m giving them enough, you know what I mean? I totally exist because of individuals who believe in me, not because of one big, faceless corporation.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"instagramLink","attributes":{"named":{"instagramId":"CzKW8Xov-Or"},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cb>There’s so much heaviness in the world right now from the Congo to Sudan to Palestine. You signed onto — along with Berkeley chef Samin Nosrat — the \u003c/b>\u003ca href=\"https://www.hospitality-for-humanity.com/\">\u003cb>Hospitality for Humanity\u003c/b>\u003c/a>\u003cb> pledge, a coalition of food and beverage workers calling for a ceasefire in Gaza, co-organized by another Bay Area chef, Reem Assil. How do you hope food and chefs can play a role in social justice and political organizing?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s tough. I feel like a lot of what happens is people just repost things, which I also was doing for a while, but I stopped because I saw a lot of prominent people who posted misinformation by accident with the best intentions because we’re not journalists, we’re not politicians. It’s easy to not know exactly what’s a real post.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So I think the better way is just to focus on bringing awareness with what we do best, which is food. And I think it’s really important, especially with what’s happening in Palestine, to humanize the people there by just sharing more of their culture. I like talking about the food and celebrating the positive things that are happening over there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>I love the deep dives into food history and food science that feel like throughlines in your work. Is there anything you’ve been nerding out about recently?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"arts_13921460,arts_13919177,arts_13926618","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/span>Well, I’m currently working on my next book. The first one, I knew exactly what I wanted the book to accomplish. So for the next book, I don’t really have a plan, and I’m just letting myself learn about things that are interesting to me, and I’m just cooking stuff that I’m into. So I’ve just really been into princess cake lately. I’ve always seen them, but the ones from the grocery store are usually not very good, if we’re being totally honest. That marzipan is a little stale. But making a fresh one kind of blew me away with how delicious it is. So now I just want to learn more about princess cake and marzipan. I want to be someone where anytime you come over to my house — even if it’s a Tuesday — I made you a princess cake.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>I’m having a small dinner party tomorrow with a few friends. What’s a menu from recipes in your book that you’d recommend for a vibey but not super high-maintenance dinner to cure our winter blues?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think for appetizers, there’s a shrimp cocktail in the book that’s really fun, and broiled oysters. But most of the time when we have people over, I can’t wrap my head around all that. So I’ll make a quick crudités plate. I love having some crunchy veg before a meal because it’s kind of like palate cleanser vibes. Try radishes and some Asian pear. There’s a ranch fun dip recipe in the book using pistachios — that’s fantastic. So put all the veggies on ice and get a nice glass bowl for the fun dip. People don’t give crudités respect, but you can make it really sexy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For the main, maybe make those braised short ribs. You can make them the same day, but they are a lot better if you dry-brine them tonight. And then I really like to serve that with steamed vegetables, like some really nice broccolini and carrots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And then dessert: I think you should go for the chocolate pudding pie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-12127869\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"78\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-768x75.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>El-Waylly will be signing copies of \u003c/i>Start Here\u003ci> at \u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://omnivorebooks.myshopify.com/products/sohla-el-waylly-book-signing-start-here-instructions-for-becoming-a-better-cook\">\u003ci>Omnivore Books\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci> (3885 Cesar Chavez St., San Francisco) at 4 p.m. on January 30, following her \u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.jccsf.org/event/sohla-el-waylly-start-here/\">\u003ci>sold-out book event\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci> at the Jewish Community Center of San Francisco on January 29.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/arts/13951141/sohla-el-waylly-cookbook-start-here-bay-area-interview","authors":["11872"],"programs":["arts_140"],"categories":["arts_1","arts_12276"],"tags":["arts_16106","arts_10278","arts_1297","arts_1050","arts_989","arts_585"],"featImg":"arts_13951147","label":"source_arts_13951141"},"arts_13937806":{"type":"posts","id":"arts_13937806","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"arts","id":"13937806","score":null,"sort":[1699492681000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"fuchsia-dunlop-taught-me-how-to-cook-chinese-food","title":"Fuchsia Dunlop Taught Me How to Cook Chinese Food","publishDate":1699492681,"format":"standard","headTitle":"Fuchsia Dunlop Taught Me How to Cook Chinese Food | KQED","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cp>For most of my adult life, I didn’t really know how to cook Chinese food. Once in a while, I’d attempt some big song and dance for a dinner party — scratch-made dumplings, say, or crispy roast pork belly. But the kind of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13924997/the-woks-of-life-chinese-american-cookbook-berkeley-san-francisco-omnivore-books\">homey, everyday dishes I grew up on\u003c/a> as a first-generation immigrant kid? Those remained a mystery.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After I had children of my own, that ignorance started to feel like a personal failing: Americanized as my girls were certain to be, \u003ca href=\"https://www.ediblecommunities.com/recipes/the-best-congee/\">I couldn’t stand the idea\u003c/a> that they would grow up not knowing how to eat a proper family-style Chinese meal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So, I set about trying to learn. This was eight or nine years ago, when reliable English-language recipes for home-style Chinese dishes were still relatively hard to find. When I snagged a copy of Fuchsia Dunlop’s \u003ca href=\"https://wwnorton.com/books/9780393089042\">\u003ci>Every Grain of Rice\u003c/i>\u003c/a>, it felt like I could finally unlock the puzzle box I’d been worrying over for years. Here, at last, was an English-language cookbook packed with straightforward recipes for the kind of simple Chinese dishes that I’d grown up on: pressed tofu stir-fried with green peppers, clams in black bean sauce, napa cabbage with dried shrimp. By the time I finished cooking my way through the book, I was well on my way to becoming the kind of competent Chinese home cook who could whip up three quick stir-fries in the time it takes a pot of rice to finish steaming. All thanks to the clear instruction of a mild-mannered white woman from the U.K.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dunlop, of course, is a legend in the world of Chinese cookery. In the ’90s, she became the first Westerner to train at the prestigious Sichuan Higher Institute of Cuisine in Chengdu, China, and she has made a career out of translating China’s wildly diverse, and often wildly misunderstood, cuisines for a non-Chinese audience. She’s done it, too, with a humility and earnest curiosity that sets her apart from many of her \u003ca href=\"https://www.ocweekly.com/the-problem-isnt-rick-bayless-cooking-mexican-food-its-that-hes-a-thin-skinned-diva-7075113-2/\">“white expert” counterparts\u003c/a> in other cuisines: No one is quicker than Dunlop to deflect praise back to the Chinese chefs who have befriended her and taught her their secrets.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-13937825\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/jacket-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"The book jacket for Fuchsia Dunlop's 'Invitation to a Banquet' depicts a colorful Chinese ceramic bowl against a light blue background.\" width=\"1695\" height=\"2560\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/jacket-scaled.jpg 1695w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/jacket-800x1208.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/jacket-1020x1540.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/jacket-160x242.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/jacket-768x1160.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/jacket-1017x1536.jpg 1017w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/jacket-1356x2048.jpg 1356w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1695px) 100vw, 1695px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dunlop’s new book, \u003ci>Invitation to a Banquet\u003c/i>, isn’t a cookbook at all. Instead, it’s a meandering, often philosophical exploration of what Chinese food culture actually \u003ci>is —\u003c/i> and what it’s becoming — told through the story of 30 specific dishes. In one chapter, about a soup of wild catfish cheeks, she writes about the dozens of different food textures that the Chinese both admire and have highly specific words for. In another, she writes about a dish made by braising the cottony, seemingly inedible pith of a pomelo until it becomes ethereally delicious — a creation so ingenious that it flips the famous notion that Chinese people are willing to treat \u003ci>anything\u003c/i> vaguely edible as an ingredient entirely on its head.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“No other cuisine,” Dunlop writes of Chinese food, “has had such extraordinary influence or been so much loved, adopted and localized in so many countries.” At the same time, few other cuisines have been as shockingly misunderstood, especially in the West\u003ci>.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On the eve of the book’s U.S. release — and ahead of her San Francisco book tour events on Nov. 13 and 14 — I spoke to Dunlop about new trends in American Chinese food, what Chinese people in China think of her books, and the uniquely British phenomenon of fish and chip shops that have been converted into Chinese restaurants.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>The following interview has been edited for length and clarity.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: center\">***\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luke Tsai: You’re probably best known for your cookbooks, but this new book, \u003c/b>\u003cb>\u003ci>Invitation to a Banquet\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003cb>, very much is not that — it’s more about the history and cultural context behind Chinese food. What inspired this project?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fuchsia Dunlop:\u003c/b> Well, I’ve been eating and thinking about Chinese food for about 30 years now, and there’s always been more that I wanted to say about it than you can reasonably do in the headnotes or introduction of a cookbook. The thing that was preoccupying me more and more is this weird injustice in the way that Chinese food is viewed internationally, which is that it’s incredibly popular globally, and it has been, in many places, for 100 years. But at the same time, people don’t really give it credit for being the sophisticated, extraordinarily diverse and wide-ranging cuisine that it is. Chinese food has been stuck in the kind of easy neighborhood or takeout brackets. And few people in the West have the chance to try really high-level Chinese food — these technically advanced, complicated dishes that are not recognized.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Another of the stereotypes that I really wanted to look at in the book is the old thing about the Chinese eating everything, which has always been seen in a really negative light in the West — this idea that it’s a poor country that’s a bit desperate, so they’ll eat anything. It’s true that the Chinese eat an extraordinary range of ingredients, and are much more adventurous than your typical Westerner. But I find this inspirational and joyful. And also at a time when we all have to think more creatively about how we eat because of environmental reasons, I think there’s so much to learn from this radically creative Chinese approach to making delicacies out of everything and not wasting anything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13937828\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13937828\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/Fuchsia-Dunlop_Yuki-Sugiura.jpg\" alt=\"A cook in a striped apron poses for the camera while holding a plate of Chinese food.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"2401\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/Fuchsia-Dunlop_Yuki-Sugiura.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/Fuchsia-Dunlop_Yuki-Sugiura-800x1000.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/Fuchsia-Dunlop_Yuki-Sugiura-1020x1276.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/Fuchsia-Dunlop_Yuki-Sugiura-160x200.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/Fuchsia-Dunlop_Yuki-Sugiura-768x960.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/Fuchsia-Dunlop_Yuki-Sugiura-1228x1536.jpg 1228w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/Fuchsia-Dunlop_Yuki-Sugiura-1638x2048.jpg 1638w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Dunlop poses for a photo in her London kitchen. \u003ccite>(Yuki Sugiura)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>One of the parts of the book I found really interesting were the differences between British Chinese food and American Chinese food — the fact that Chinese food didn’t really take off in the U.K. until after the 1950s, for instance. What would you say are the main differences today?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We have some parallels like chow mein and chop suey. In the U.K., we have sweet-and-sour pork balls with red sauce and also chips in curry sauce because that was another thing — that Chinese restaurants often took over fish and chip shops. We don’t have General Tso’s chicken, but we do have crispy duck with pancakes everywhere.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In America now, you have whole suburbs with enormous populations of Chinese from all over China. In the U.K., we don’t have anywhere like San Gabriel Valley or New York Chinatown. The amount of produce and the scale is much bigger than ours, and you’ve got a greater diversity of regional restaurants. We have a lot of Sichuan and a bit of Hunan in the U.K., but you’ve got so many Jiangnan or Shanghainese restaurants, which we don’t really have.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You’ve just got bigger centers of Chinese people in the U.S., and having more native Chinese people in an immigrant population makes the food much more “authentic,” in the sense that it’s closer to what people are actually eating in China.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>What do you think of the Bay Area’s Chinese food scene, especially in terms of some of the new movements we’re seeing in more “modern” second- or third-generation Chinese American cuisine — the food being put out by chefs like Brandon Jew (of \u003c/b>\u003ca href=\"https://www.misterjius.com/\">\u003cb>Mister Jiu’s\u003c/b>\u003c/a>\u003cb>), who is hosting \u003ca href=\"https://www.exploretock.com/moongate-lounge-san-francisco/event/445082/invitation-to-a-banquet-cookbook-release-party-with-fuchsia-dunlop\">one of your San Francisco book events\u003c/a>?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Not just in the Bay Area, but in America generally, I think it’s really interesting that there’s a whole lot of second- and third generation Chinese people who are doing interesting things that involve mixing up different cultural influences and working with their heritage but not being totally bound by it, which is really fun.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Another thing that I tried to bring out in the book is that Chinese food is so diverse and dynamic. In China itself, the food has always been responding to new cultures and new influences. The best example is Sichuanese food itself: They’ve only had chilies for a couple hundred years. They combined the chili with the ancient Chinese spice, the Sichuan pepper, and they created \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/20/magazine/mala-sicuhuan-peppercorn-recipe.html\">mala\u003c/a>. And now you can’t really imagine Sichuan food without it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’ve been traveling around for three decades now. Every time I go to China there’s some new craze, some new ingredient. Most of us have an affection and a reverence for tradition. But I think that can coexist with being creative — with breaking the tradition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13937831\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1803px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13937831\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/fuchsia-dunlop-chinese-edition-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"The Chinese-language book jacket for the book 'Shark's Fin and Sichuan Pepper' depicts a woman bending down to talk to a Chinese woman seated in front of several bowls of soup.\" width=\"1803\" height=\"2560\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/fuchsia-dunlop-chinese-edition-scaled.jpg 1803w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/fuchsia-dunlop-chinese-edition-800x1136.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/fuchsia-dunlop-chinese-edition-1020x1448.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/fuchsia-dunlop-chinese-edition-160x227.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/fuchsia-dunlop-chinese-edition-768x1090.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/fuchsia-dunlop-chinese-edition-1082x1536.jpg 1082w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/fuchsia-dunlop-chinese-edition-1442x2048.jpg 1442w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1803px) 100vw, 1803px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The book jacket for the Chinese edition of Dunlop’s 2008 food memoir, ‘Shark’s Fin and Sichuan Pepper.’\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>It seems like you’re very conscious of your responsibility as the person who is introducing many people — even people of Chinese descent — to Chinese cooking. Do you think of your role as being primarily one of translating Chinese food culture to foreigners? Or have Chinese readers also become a part of your audience?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003cstrong>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[aside postID='arts_13924997,arts_13927103,arts_13906189']\u003c/span>\u003c/strong>\u003c/b>When I started out, what I thought I was doing was writing about Chinese food for people who were not Chinese and didn’t grow up with it. That was the whole motivation, really. And so it’s been really surprising to me that actually the people who appreciate it the most tend to be people like you — who know Chinese food and love it, but don’t necessarily speak the language.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, four of my books have been published in China in Chinese — this one is the first book I’ve written that I knew would have a Chinese edition. So I suppose I’m not writing for only one audience anymore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I am an outsider. I didn’t grow up with this, and I’m observing Chinese food from that outside viewpoint. On the other hand, I’m really trying to understand how food is eaten and understood in China itself — and to be fair and balanced about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Maybe that’s why Chinese people like it too. A lot of Chinese readers of the books tell me they find it really interesting. Somebody coming from outside notices things that you don’t really notice as the daily background of your life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-12127869\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"78\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-768x75.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>On Monday, Nov. 13, Dunlop will appear in San Francisco for a book signing at \u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/p/CzAPdhzCnZ3/?img_index=1\">\u003ci>China Live\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci> (644 Broadway) from 2–4 p.m., and a book talk and signing at \u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://omnivorebooks.myshopify.com/collections/events/products/pre-order-chinese-fuchsia-dunlop-invitation-to-a-banquet-the-story-of-chinese-food-expected-october-10\">\u003ci>Omnivore Books\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci> (3885 Cesar Chavez St.) at 6:30 p.m.. On Tuesday, Nov. 14, she’ll appear at a ticketed release party at \u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.exploretock.com/moongate-lounge-san-francisco/\">\u003ci>Moongate Lounge\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci> (28 Waverly Pl.) from 6–9 p.m. \u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Her new book, ‘Invitation to a Banquet,’ goes beyond recipes to grapple with the very essence of the cuisine.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1705003118,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":29,"wordCount":1858},"headData":{"title":"Fuchsia Dunlop's New Book Tells the Story Chinese Food | KQED","description":"Her new book, ‘Invitation to a Banquet,’ goes beyond recipes to grapple with the very essence of the cuisine.","ogTitle":"Fuchsia Dunlop Taught Me How to Cook Chinese Food","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"Fuchsia Dunlop Taught Me How to Cook Chinese Food","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","socialTitle":"Fuchsia Dunlop's New Book Tells the Story Chinese Food %%page%% %%sep%% KQED","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Fuchsia Dunlop Taught Me How to Cook Chinese Food","datePublished":"2023-11-09T01:18:01.000Z","dateModified":"2024-01-11T19:58:38.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"source":"Food","sourceUrl":"https://www.kqed.org/food","sticky":false,"excludeFromSiteSearch":"Include","articleAge":"0","path":"/arts/13937806/fuchsia-dunlop-taught-me-how-to-cook-chinese-food","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>For most of my adult life, I didn’t really know how to cook Chinese food. Once in a while, I’d attempt some big song and dance for a dinner party — scratch-made dumplings, say, or crispy roast pork belly. But the kind of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13924997/the-woks-of-life-chinese-american-cookbook-berkeley-san-francisco-omnivore-books\">homey, everyday dishes I grew up on\u003c/a> as a first-generation immigrant kid? Those remained a mystery.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After I had children of my own, that ignorance started to feel like a personal failing: Americanized as my girls were certain to be, \u003ca href=\"https://www.ediblecommunities.com/recipes/the-best-congee/\">I couldn’t stand the idea\u003c/a> that they would grow up not knowing how to eat a proper family-style Chinese meal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So, I set about trying to learn. This was eight or nine years ago, when reliable English-language recipes for home-style Chinese dishes were still relatively hard to find. When I snagged a copy of Fuchsia Dunlop’s \u003ca href=\"https://wwnorton.com/books/9780393089042\">\u003ci>Every Grain of Rice\u003c/i>\u003c/a>, it felt like I could finally unlock the puzzle box I’d been worrying over for years. Here, at last, was an English-language cookbook packed with straightforward recipes for the kind of simple Chinese dishes that I’d grown up on: pressed tofu stir-fried with green peppers, clams in black bean sauce, napa cabbage with dried shrimp. By the time I finished cooking my way through the book, I was well on my way to becoming the kind of competent Chinese home cook who could whip up three quick stir-fries in the time it takes a pot of rice to finish steaming. All thanks to the clear instruction of a mild-mannered white woman from the U.K.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dunlop, of course, is a legend in the world of Chinese cookery. In the ’90s, she became the first Westerner to train at the prestigious Sichuan Higher Institute of Cuisine in Chengdu, China, and she has made a career out of translating China’s wildly diverse, and often wildly misunderstood, cuisines for a non-Chinese audience. She’s done it, too, with a humility and earnest curiosity that sets her apart from many of her \u003ca href=\"https://www.ocweekly.com/the-problem-isnt-rick-bayless-cooking-mexican-food-its-that-hes-a-thin-skinned-diva-7075113-2/\">“white expert” counterparts\u003c/a> in other cuisines: No one is quicker than Dunlop to deflect praise back to the Chinese chefs who have befriended her and taught her their secrets.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-13937825\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/jacket-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"The book jacket for Fuchsia Dunlop's 'Invitation to a Banquet' depicts a colorful Chinese ceramic bowl against a light blue background.\" width=\"1695\" height=\"2560\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/jacket-scaled.jpg 1695w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/jacket-800x1208.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/jacket-1020x1540.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/jacket-160x242.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/jacket-768x1160.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/jacket-1017x1536.jpg 1017w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/jacket-1356x2048.jpg 1356w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1695px) 100vw, 1695px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Dunlop’s new book, \u003ci>Invitation to a Banquet\u003c/i>, isn’t a cookbook at all. Instead, it’s a meandering, often philosophical exploration of what Chinese food culture actually \u003ci>is —\u003c/i> and what it’s becoming — told through the story of 30 specific dishes. In one chapter, about a soup of wild catfish cheeks, she writes about the dozens of different food textures that the Chinese both admire and have highly specific words for. In another, she writes about a dish made by braising the cottony, seemingly inedible pith of a pomelo until it becomes ethereally delicious — a creation so ingenious that it flips the famous notion that Chinese people are willing to treat \u003ci>anything\u003c/i> vaguely edible as an ingredient entirely on its head.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“No other cuisine,” Dunlop writes of Chinese food, “has had such extraordinary influence or been so much loved, adopted and localized in so many countries.” At the same time, few other cuisines have been as shockingly misunderstood, especially in the West\u003ci>.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On the eve of the book’s U.S. release — and ahead of her San Francisco book tour events on Nov. 13 and 14 — I spoke to Dunlop about new trends in American Chinese food, what Chinese people in China think of her books, and the uniquely British phenomenon of fish and chip shops that have been converted into Chinese restaurants.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>The following interview has been edited for length and clarity.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: center\">***\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Luke Tsai: You’re probably best known for your cookbooks, but this new book, \u003c/b>\u003cb>\u003ci>Invitation to a Banquet\u003c/i>\u003c/b>\u003cb>, very much is not that — it’s more about the history and cultural context behind Chinese food. What inspired this project?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fuchsia Dunlop:\u003c/b> Well, I’ve been eating and thinking about Chinese food for about 30 years now, and there’s always been more that I wanted to say about it than you can reasonably do in the headnotes or introduction of a cookbook. The thing that was preoccupying me more and more is this weird injustice in the way that Chinese food is viewed internationally, which is that it’s incredibly popular globally, and it has been, in many places, for 100 years. But at the same time, people don’t really give it credit for being the sophisticated, extraordinarily diverse and wide-ranging cuisine that it is. Chinese food has been stuck in the kind of easy neighborhood or takeout brackets. And few people in the West have the chance to try really high-level Chinese food — these technically advanced, complicated dishes that are not recognized.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Another of the stereotypes that I really wanted to look at in the book is the old thing about the Chinese eating everything, which has always been seen in a really negative light in the West — this idea that it’s a poor country that’s a bit desperate, so they’ll eat anything. It’s true that the Chinese eat an extraordinary range of ingredients, and are much more adventurous than your typical Westerner. But I find this inspirational and joyful. And also at a time when we all have to think more creatively about how we eat because of environmental reasons, I think there’s so much to learn from this radically creative Chinese approach to making delicacies out of everything and not wasting anything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13937828\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13937828\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/Fuchsia-Dunlop_Yuki-Sugiura.jpg\" alt=\"A cook in a striped apron poses for the camera while holding a plate of Chinese food.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"2401\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/Fuchsia-Dunlop_Yuki-Sugiura.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/Fuchsia-Dunlop_Yuki-Sugiura-800x1000.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/Fuchsia-Dunlop_Yuki-Sugiura-1020x1276.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/Fuchsia-Dunlop_Yuki-Sugiura-160x200.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/Fuchsia-Dunlop_Yuki-Sugiura-768x960.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/Fuchsia-Dunlop_Yuki-Sugiura-1228x1536.jpg 1228w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/Fuchsia-Dunlop_Yuki-Sugiura-1638x2048.jpg 1638w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Dunlop poses for a photo in her London kitchen. \u003ccite>(Yuki Sugiura)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>One of the parts of the book I found really interesting were the differences between British Chinese food and American Chinese food — the fact that Chinese food didn’t really take off in the U.K. until after the 1950s, for instance. What would you say are the main differences today?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We have some parallels like chow mein and chop suey. In the U.K., we have sweet-and-sour pork balls with red sauce and also chips in curry sauce because that was another thing — that Chinese restaurants often took over fish and chip shops. We don’t have General Tso’s chicken, but we do have crispy duck with pancakes everywhere.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In America now, you have whole suburbs with enormous populations of Chinese from all over China. In the U.K., we don’t have anywhere like San Gabriel Valley or New York Chinatown. The amount of produce and the scale is much bigger than ours, and you’ve got a greater diversity of regional restaurants. We have a lot of Sichuan and a bit of Hunan in the U.K., but you’ve got so many Jiangnan or Shanghainese restaurants, which we don’t really have.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>You’ve just got bigger centers of Chinese people in the U.S., and having more native Chinese people in an immigrant population makes the food much more “authentic,” in the sense that it’s closer to what people are actually eating in China.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>What do you think of the Bay Area’s Chinese food scene, especially in terms of some of the new movements we’re seeing in more “modern” second- or third-generation Chinese American cuisine — the food being put out by chefs like Brandon Jew (of \u003c/b>\u003ca href=\"https://www.misterjius.com/\">\u003cb>Mister Jiu’s\u003c/b>\u003c/a>\u003cb>), who is hosting \u003ca href=\"https://www.exploretock.com/moongate-lounge-san-francisco/event/445082/invitation-to-a-banquet-cookbook-release-party-with-fuchsia-dunlop\">one of your San Francisco book events\u003c/a>?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Not just in the Bay Area, but in America generally, I think it’s really interesting that there’s a whole lot of second- and third generation Chinese people who are doing interesting things that involve mixing up different cultural influences and working with their heritage but not being totally bound by it, which is really fun.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Another thing that I tried to bring out in the book is that Chinese food is so diverse and dynamic. In China itself, the food has always been responding to new cultures and new influences. The best example is Sichuanese food itself: They’ve only had chilies for a couple hundred years. They combined the chili with the ancient Chinese spice, the Sichuan pepper, and they created \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/20/magazine/mala-sicuhuan-peppercorn-recipe.html\">mala\u003c/a>. And now you can’t really imagine Sichuan food without it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I’ve been traveling around for three decades now. Every time I go to China there’s some new craze, some new ingredient. Most of us have an affection and a reverence for tradition. But I think that can coexist with being creative — with breaking the tradition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13937831\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 1803px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-13937831\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/fuchsia-dunlop-chinese-edition-scaled.jpg\" alt=\"The Chinese-language book jacket for the book 'Shark's Fin and Sichuan Pepper' depicts a woman bending down to talk to a Chinese woman seated in front of several bowls of soup.\" width=\"1803\" height=\"2560\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/fuchsia-dunlop-chinese-edition-scaled.jpg 1803w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/fuchsia-dunlop-chinese-edition-800x1136.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/fuchsia-dunlop-chinese-edition-1020x1448.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/fuchsia-dunlop-chinese-edition-160x227.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/fuchsia-dunlop-chinese-edition-768x1090.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/fuchsia-dunlop-chinese-edition-1082x1536.jpg 1082w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/fuchsia-dunlop-chinese-edition-1442x2048.jpg 1442w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1803px) 100vw, 1803px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The book jacket for the Chinese edition of Dunlop’s 2008 food memoir, ‘Shark’s Fin and Sichuan Pepper.’\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>It seems like you’re very conscious of your responsibility as the person who is introducing many people — even people of Chinese descent — to Chinese cooking. Do you think of your role as being primarily one of translating Chinese food culture to foreigners? Or have Chinese readers also become a part of your audience?\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003cstrong>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"aside","attributes":{"named":{"postid":"arts_13924997,arts_13927103,arts_13906189","label":""},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/span>\u003c/strong>\u003c/b>When I started out, what I thought I was doing was writing about Chinese food for people who were not Chinese and didn’t grow up with it. That was the whole motivation, really. And so it’s been really surprising to me that actually the people who appreciate it the most tend to be people like you — who know Chinese food and love it, but don’t necessarily speak the language.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, four of my books have been published in China in Chinese — this one is the first book I’ve written that I knew would have a Chinese edition. So I suppose I’m not writing for only one audience anymore.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I am an outsider. I didn’t grow up with this, and I’m observing Chinese food from that outside viewpoint. On the other hand, I’m really trying to understand how food is eaten and understood in China itself — and to be fair and balanced about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Maybe that’s why Chinese people like it too. A lot of Chinese readers of the books tell me they find it really interesting. Somebody coming from outside notices things that you don’t really notice as the daily background of your life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-12127869\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"78\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-768x75.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>On Monday, Nov. 13, Dunlop will appear in San Francisco for a book signing at \u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/p/CzAPdhzCnZ3/?img_index=1\">\u003ci>China Live\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci> (644 Broadway) from 2–4 p.m., and a book talk and signing at \u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://omnivorebooks.myshopify.com/collections/events/products/pre-order-chinese-fuchsia-dunlop-invitation-to-a-banquet-the-story-of-chinese-food-expected-october-10\">\u003ci>Omnivore Books\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci> (3885 Cesar Chavez St.) at 6:30 p.m.. On Tuesday, Nov. 14, she’ll appear at a ticketed release party at \u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.exploretock.com/moongate-lounge-san-francisco/\">\u003ci>Moongate Lounge\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci> (28 Waverly Pl.) from 6–9 p.m. \u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/arts/13937806/fuchsia-dunlop-taught-me-how-to-cook-chinese-food","authors":["11743"],"programs":["arts_140"],"categories":["arts_1","arts_12276"],"tags":["arts_21727","arts_16106","arts_10278","arts_1297","arts_1050","arts_989","arts_585"],"featImg":"arts_13937823","label":"source_arts_13937806"}},"programsReducer":{"possible":{"id":"possible","title":"Possible","info":"Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? Each episode also includes a short fiction story generated by advanced AI GPT-4, serving as a thought-provoking springboard to speculate how humanity could leverage technology for good.","airtime":"SUN 2pm","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Possible-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.possible.fm/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"Possible"},"link":"/radio/program/possible","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/possible/id1677184070","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/730YpdUSNlMyPQwNnyjp4k"}},"1a":{"id":"1a","title":"1A","info":"1A is home to the national conversation. 1A brings on great guests and frames the best debate in ways that make you think, share and engage.","airtime":"MON-THU 11pm-12am","imageSrc":"https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/1a.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://the1a.org/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"npr"},"link":"/radio/program/1a","subscribe":{"npr":"https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/RBrW","apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=1188724250&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/1A-p947376/","rss":"https://feeds.npr.org/510316/podcast.xml"}},"all-things-considered":{"id":"all-things-considered","title":"All Things Considered","info":"Every weekday, \u003cem>All Things Considered\u003c/em> hosts Robert Siegel, Audie Cornish, Ari Shapiro, and Kelly McEvers present the program's trademark mix of news, interviews, commentaries, reviews, and offbeat features. Michel Martin hosts on the weekends.","airtime":"MON-FRI 1pm-2pm, 4:30pm-6:30pm\u003cbr />SAT-SUN 5pm-6pm","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/All-Things-Considered-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.npr.org/programs/all-things-considered/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"npr"},"link":"/radio/program/all-things-considered"},"american-suburb-podcast":{"id":"american-suburb-podcast","title":"American Suburb: The Podcast","tagline":"The flip side of gentrification, told through one town","info":"Gentrification is changing cities across America, forcing people from neighborhoods they have long called home. Call them the displaced. Now those priced out of the Bay Area are looking for a better life in an unlikely place. American Suburb follows this migration to one California town along the Delta, 45 miles from San Francisco. But is this once sleepy suburb ready for them?","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/American-Suburb-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"/news/series/american-suburb-podcast","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":"13"},"link":"/news/series/american-suburb-podcast/","subscribe":{"npr":"https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/RBrW","apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?mt=2&id=1287748328","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/American-Suburb-p1086805/","rss":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/series/american-suburb-podcast/feed/podcast","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkMzMDExODgxNjA5"}},"baycurious":{"id":"baycurious","title":"Bay Curious","tagline":"Exploring the Bay Area, one question at a time","info":"KQED’s new podcast, Bay Curious, gets to the bottom of the mysteries — both profound and peculiar — that give the Bay Area its unique identity. And we’ll do it with your help! You ask the questions. You decide what Bay Curious investigates. And you join us on the journey to find the answers.","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Bay-Curious-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","imageAlt":"\"KQED Bay Curious","officialWebsiteLink":"/news/series/baycurious","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":"4"},"link":"/podcasts/baycurious","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406","npr":"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious","rss":"https://ww2.kqed.org/news/category/bay-curious-podcast/feed/podcast","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93dzIua3FlZC5vcmcvbmV3cy9jYXRlZ29yeS9iYXktY3VyaW91cy1wb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQvcG9kY2FzdA","stitcher":"https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/bay-curious","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/6O76IdmhixfijmhTZLIJ8k"}},"bbc-world-service":{"id":"bbc-world-service","title":"BBC World Service","info":"The day's top stories from BBC News compiled twice daily in the week, once at weekends.","airtime":"MON-FRI 9pm-10pm, TUE-FRI 1am-2am","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/BBC-World-Service-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_world_service","meta":{"site":"news","source":"BBC World Service"},"link":"/radio/program/bbc-world-service","subscribe":{"apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/global-news-podcast/id135067274?mt=2","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/BBC-World-Service-p455581/","rss":"https://podcasts.files.bbci.co.uk/p02nq0gn.rss"}},"code-switch-life-kit":{"id":"code-switch-life-kit","title":"Code Switch / Life Kit","info":"\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em>, which listeners will hear in the first part of the hour, has fearless and much-needed conversations about race. Hosted by journalists of color, the show tackles the subject of race head-on, exploring how it impacts every part of society — from politics and pop culture to history, sports and more.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em>, which will be in the second part of the hour, guides you through spaces and feelings no one prepares you for — from finances to mental health, from workplace microaggressions to imposter syndrome, from relationships to parenting. The show features experts with real world experience and shares their knowledge. Because everyone needs a little help being human.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510312/codeswitch\">\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/lifekit\">\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />","airtime":"SUN 9pm-10pm","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Code-Switch-Life-Kit-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","meta":{"site":"radio","source":"npr"},"link":"/radio/program/code-switch-life-kit","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/1112190608?mt=2&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnByLm9yZy9yc3MvcG9kY2FzdC5waHA_aWQ9NTEwMzEy","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/3bExJ9JQpkwNhoHvaIIuyV","rss":"https://feeds.npr.org/510312/podcast.xml"}},"commonwealth-club":{"id":"commonwealth-club","title":"Commonwealth Club of California Podcast","info":"The Commonwealth Club of California is the nation's oldest and largest public affairs forum. As a non-partisan forum, The Club brings to the public airwaves diverse viewpoints on important topics. The Club's weekly radio broadcast - the oldest in the U.S., dating back to 1924 - is carried across the nation on public radio stations and is now podcasting. Our website archive features audio of our recent programs, as well as selected speeches from our long and distinguished history. 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On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. 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For one hour a week, the show tries to lift the veil from the process of \"making media,\" especially news media, because it's through that lens that we see the world and the world sees us","airtime":"SUN 2pm-3pm, MON 12am-1am","imageSrc":"https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/onTheMedia.png","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/otm","meta":{"site":"news","source":"wnyc"},"link":"/radio/program/on-the-media","subscribe":{"apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/on-the-media/id73330715?mt=2","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/On-the-Media-p69/","rss":"http://feeds.wnyc.org/onthemedia"}},"our-body-politic":{"id":"our-body-politic","title":"Our Body Politic","info":"Presented by KQED, KCRW and KPCC, and created and hosted by award-winning journalist Farai Chideya, Our Body Politic is unapologetically centered on reporting on not just how women of color experience the major political events of today, but how they’re impacting those very issues.","airtime":"SAT 6pm-7pm, SUN 1am-2am","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Our-Body-Politic-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://our-body-politic.simplecast.com/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kcrw"},"link":"/radio/program/our-body-politic","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/our-body-politic/id1533069868","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9feGFQaHMxcw","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/4ApAiLT1kV153TttWAmqmc","rss":"https://feeds.simplecast.com/_xaPhs1s","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/podcasts/News--Politics-Podcasts/Our-Body-Politic-p1369211/"}},"pbs-newshour":{"id":"pbs-newshour","title":"PBS NewsHour","info":"Analysis, background reports and updates from the PBS NewsHour putting today's news in context.","airtime":"MON-FRI 3pm-4pm","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/PBS-News-Hour-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.pbs.org/newshour/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"pbs"},"link":"/radio/program/pbs-newshour","subscribe":{"apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/pbs-newshour-full-show/id394432287?mt=2","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/PBS-NewsHour---Full-Show-p425698/","rss":"https://www.pbs.org/newshour/feeds/rss/podcasts/show"}},"perspectives":{"id":"perspectives","title":"Perspectives","tagline":"KQED's series of of daily listener commentaries since 1991","info":"KQED's series of of daily listener commentaries since 1991.","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Perspectives-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","officialWebsiteLink":"/perspectives/","meta":{"site":"radio","source":"kqed","order":"15"},"link":"/perspectives","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id73801135","npr":"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/432309616/perspectives","rss":"https://ww2.kqed.org/perspectives/category/perspectives/feed/","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93dzIua3FlZC5vcmcvcGVyc3BlY3RpdmVzL2NhdGVnb3J5L3BlcnNwZWN0aXZlcy9mZWVkLw"}},"planet-money":{"id":"planet-money","title":"Planet Money","info":"The economy explained. 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The result is stories that inform and inspire, arming our listeners with information to right injustices, hold the powerful accountable and improve lives.Reveal is hosted by Al Letson and showcases the award-winning work of CIR and newsrooms large and small across the nation. In a radio and podcast market crowded with choices, Reveal focuses on important and often surprising stories that illuminate the world for our listeners.","airtime":"SAT 4pm-5pm","imageSrc":"https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/reveal300px.png","officialWebsiteLink":"https://www.revealnews.org/episodes/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"npr"},"link":"/radio/program/reveal","subscribe":{"apple":"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/reveal/id886009669","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/Reveal-p679597/","rss":"http://feeds.revealradio.org/revealpodcast"}},"says-you":{"id":"says-you","title":"Says You!","info":"Public radio's game show of bluff and bluster, words and whimsy. 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