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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As we celebrate Mother’s Day, we’re taking some time to honor all the kinds of relationships that people have with their mothers. We’re especially thinking about those who are missing their mothers or mothers who are missing their children.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>More than just thinking about them, we’re hearing from them. This week we’re passing the mic to our friends over at the podcast \u003ca href=\"https://www.earhustlesq.com/episodes/2023/9/20/once-youre-in-the-ocean-youre-going-everywhere\">Ear Hustle\u003c/a>, from PRX’s Radiotopia. It’s a special episode that highlights the stories of elderly mothers who are incarcerated at the California Institution for Women, a prison located in Chino, CA.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Their tales of aging behind bars while yearning for family are gut-wrenching but necessary. We can’t grow as a people unless we understand the plight of those on the margins of society. And when it comes to ensuring that we grow as a people, that’s something that mothers know best.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Happy Mother’s Day from the Rightnowish family!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC2810419346\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pendarvis Harshaw, Rightnowish Host:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Hey ya’ll, welcome to Rightnowish. I’m your host Pendarvis Harshaw. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s Mother’s Day weekend, a day for celebration — and for some, a day that opens wounds. I want to give some love to those who have strained relationships or are missing their moms in one way or another. I’m also thinking about the mothers who are missing their children.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Today, we’re going to hear from some mothers who are incarcerated, particularly senior women with adult children. We’ll do that by passing the mic to our friends at Radiotopia’s Ear Hustle, a podcast that shares the daily realities of life inside prison, from those living it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this episode, co-hosts Earlonne Woods and Nigel Poor pay a visit to the senior center located at the California Institution for Women, and talk to residents about aging and navigating family relationships from within prison walls. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A heavy, but much needed discussion, coming up right after this.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor, Ear Hustle Co-Host: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m just going to describe the scene a little bit. There’s a big television on the wall. It was probably about 54 inches and we’re watching PBS and there’s a woman stretching and Earlonne is really getting into it. He’s doing modern dance right now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods, Ear Hustle Co-Host: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jeans, Nigel. These are not yoga pants. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He’s still doing a really good job. And Bruce is even jumping in a little bit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I can do that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[workout audio playing in the background] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This was at the California Institution for Women, a prison near LA where you and I have been spending a lot of time these days, Nyge. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And we are in a room they call the Senior Center. But don’t think about some big fancy complex. It’s basically a large carpeted windowless room in a structure that is kind of like a double-wide trailer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Where’s your rhythm? You done threw us off.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[background chattering] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She’s going there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I got a bad knee and a replaced knee now, y’all. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughter] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know how they always tell us we have to keep our distance inside prison? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I loved how we could just kind of let our guard down a little bit. It was really fun to kick back and try to keep up with those ladies. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I felt like I got my workout in for the day. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[chuckles]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I feel it. I definitely feel it. I feel stretched. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m putting my shoes back on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wait a minute. Hold on. What you mean you putting your shoes back on? Nigel, we only two minutes into this. Leslie’s still going. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know. She’s good. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Are you done? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our friend, Leslie, is kind of the ringleader here at the Senior Center, which come to think of it, just got a rebranding. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, it did. So right now, we are in the She Shed, which I like better than the Senior Center, I have to say. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, it’s kind of fun. We’ll see how it goes over. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. It brings up conversation when you say it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, Nyge, with all the time that they give you in California, the prison population is kind of old. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s aging. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There are segments that are and have been there for a long time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Definitely. And Leslie is part of that. She’s been in prison, I mean, since her 20s. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, 19. 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At first, there was, I think, a feeling that this was a Band-Aid on an ongoing problem of the aging population, and so they weren’t going to come. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Were people angry at you or resentful that you were wanting to spearhead this? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t think that– it could have been, and I missed it, but I think it was just more angry that they’re still incarcerated. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[pensive music] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We can’t do much about the diet, but we can stay in mental shape and physical and spiritual. This is hopefully more of a holistic thing to stay sharp and good and also being recognized, because I don’t think people are aware that there’s so many women over 60 incarcerated. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Gladys Ortiz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My name is Gladys Ortiz. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What do you love about the Senior Center? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Gladys Ortiz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s so much to do there. Yeah, and you get to socialize with people your age.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How long have you been incarcerated? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Gladys Ortiz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Seven. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what is your sentence? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Gladys Ortiz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I got 15 years. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oka\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">y. How old were you when you came to prison? \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Gladys Ortiz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">60 years old. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Had you ever been to prison before? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Gladys Ortiz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Never. It’s a little embarrassing too, because I have my grown children who now have to learn how to maneuver prison. And then, I learned about 50-minute phone calls. I never thought I’d be here. Never. It’s like, wow. None of my friends back home– I’ve disappeared, I’ve just fallen off the face of the earth. Nobody knows I’m here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What do they think happened to you? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Gladys Ortiz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t know. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These older women, you don’t really see them when you’re walking around the main part of the prison. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nah, they don’t hang out like that. They probably spend a lot of their time in the cell. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, it’s actually cool when you get to the Senior Center and it’s a place just for them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yep. It’s a cubbyhole, you know what I’m saying? They get to go hang out. They got air conditioning and you definitely need that in that part of California. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You definitely want air conditioning. So, I think that makes it attractive. But it’s open every day and they have so many activities, like the exercising. They have different people coming in to give talks. And once a week, I think at least once a week, they show movies. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Have you all seen The Notebook? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Female Speaker: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What do you think of it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I wasn’t into it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Men love this movie and women are like, “Really?” Oh, wait a minute. You said you loved it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Female Speaker: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, I loved it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, okay. I take back what I said. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughter] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Female Speaker: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I thought it was interesting and educational for people who’ve never had an instance to recognize Alzheimer’s.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Earlonne I love this. Men see The Notebook as a romance movie, and women, at least here at the Senior Center, see it as an Alzheimer’s movie. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Female Speaker: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. It’s quite a distressing disease, not only for the person suffering, but for all of the family as well. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, you were more drawn to it because of that, not because of the romance? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Female Speaker: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, not the romance. [laughs] I want you to see how they portray the Alzheimer’s. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The romance seemed a little corny. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just have to say this, I’ve never met so many men in my life that cried over this movie than at San Quentin. Even this dude got all teary about it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Did I? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, we need to rewatch it and think about that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You told me you did, you find it very emotional. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was a cool story. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, one of the most popular things to do in this little area are these bicycles. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Really? Bicycles? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean well, they’re like miniatures. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re like little pedals on the ground. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Pedals, sprockets. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, after the stretching, I think we wanted to redeem ourselves, so we both sat down and started pedaling. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Earlonne Woods. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Nigel. Nigel Poor. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LaVelma: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nigel. Earlonne. And? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bruce: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bruce. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LaVelma Byrd: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bruce. LaVelma Byrd. Yes, thank you. Pleased to meet you all. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How long have you been here, LaVelma? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LaVelma: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, 29 years. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What are you doing right now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LaVelma Byrd: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You seen that little thing on TV where people sit in their chair and work their legs? That’s what this is. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s like a bike. A little bike. And are you a senior? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LaVelma Byrd: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m 72. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">72, okay. What is this? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LaVelma Byrd: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because I have arthritis in both of my hands and the bouncing, I made this little soft cushion for my hands when I’m walking with my walker. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you remember LaVelma and her walker? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was all decked out. She’d done all this handiwork crocheting to make the handles softer and give it some personality. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, she was cool. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you find that do you stay separate from the younger people? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LaVelma Byrd: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As much as possible. [laughs] I’m going to be totally honest. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Are they bullies, or they just have a different way? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LaVelma Byrd: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you think it would be a good idea to have younger people house separately? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LaVelma Byrd: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, ma’am. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LaVelma Byrd: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And some of the old rowdy ones too. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughter] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LaVelma Byrd: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Don’t leave them out. There’s a few of them too. They’re up in age. They should know better. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you stepped in here 29 years ago, how was you moving? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LaVelma Byrd: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, I was out working out every day. I was running 30 laps around the track every day. I was in good shape when I came here. But now, gravity and everything else have caught up with me. \u003cem>[laughs] \u003c/em>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christine: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Ms. Christine. We started calling each other– the older people started calling us by our first names, but we say Miss. So, Ms. Lainey, Ms. Candice, Ms. Christine, Ms. Leslie. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I didn’t know that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughter] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You remember Christine, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yep. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She definitely spends a lot of time down the Senior Center. And she had that beautiful long \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Braid. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">-silver braid. And she’s the type of person that likes to sit against the wall and kind of take in the whole scene, makes sure she knows everything that’s happening down there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christine: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ve been here four years and was three years in Chowchilla, so I haven’t been here as long as some people. I came to prison when I was 72. Not all of us are lifelong criminals. And speaking for myself, most of my friends have been teachers and nurses and lawyers, and one is a doctor. And we are not lifelong criminals, and we’d really prefer not to be around criminal activity in prison. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know I’m a criminal. I did commit a crime when I was 71. But as a person, I am not a criminal. I’ve not ever led a criminal lifestyle. I was never arrested before. And many of these older people are in the same boat that I’m in. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It took 71 years to commit a crime? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christine: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. Alcohol and a loaded gun, and one second, and now I’m a criminal for the rest of my life. But I’m not asking for sympathy. I know that’s what happened, and I know that I’m here. I just would prefer while in prison not to be around people who led a criminal lifestyle. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, we don’t normally do this, but you brought it up. Can we ask you what your crime was? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christine: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. I killed someone when I was drunk and a loaded gun was there. I am here for first-degree murder, and not only first degree, but also gun enhancement, which means that I’ll never get out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And who did you kill? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christine: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I killed a close relative. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, what we really wanted to talk to you about is what is it like, as you were saying, to come to prison at 71 when you’ve lived a long, professional life? I believe you were– \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christine: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was a retired nurse. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And how does someone adjust? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christine: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a rude shock. [chuckles] It’s a very rude shock. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. I mean, did you ever see this in your future? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christine: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No. I never thought about prison. I never considered prison. It was totally not in my world. I always thought that really, really bad, hardened people who had committed terrible crimes went to prison, obviously. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tell us, what is it like when you’re 71 to walk into a prison? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christine: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They gave me an upper bunk, first of all, which it was hard. It was hard because I have to get up and pee during the night. So, it means you have to come down carefully, get to the bathroom, get up carefully without waking anybody up and all that a couple of times a night. It was very difficult. I was put in with people that fought in the room, had fights with each other, girlfriends, always these jealousy fights and blood, women having sex with each other in the shower or over to the side of me. And I got used to all of that. But people being up all night because they were tweaking and they were up all night making noise, and I couldn’t sleep. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I moved into a room with this couple, and they liked to play the radio really loud, and it was rap music. And I asked them one day if they would turn it down, and they just turned on me [chuckles] like wild beasts. And they told me, “Get out of the room.” And I got out of the room for a while. But you can absolutely not tell anybody in the room in Chowchilla what kind of noise they can make or can’t make. That’s a huge issue. I had no clout at all. I had no clout. I had nothing. I didn’t sell drugs. I didn’t have any stature there at all. So I was like at the bottom of the heap. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You were just an old person in prison. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christine: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was an old person without a whole lot to offer. And I wasn’t even an interesting old person that could do drugs or something or that had anything going for me in prison at all. I didn’t have anything. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My name’s Lanie. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How long have you been in prison? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Since 1988. I’m sorry I have a new partial– \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and I’m having a hard time in case I sound a little old lady stuff. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lanie came in, she had those bright eyes with the short hairstyle, and she was very engaging. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. I mean, I found her proper. I don’t know what else to say. Hospitable. And she seemed to me like a character out of a southern novel. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kentucky Derby. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Maybe, with the hat and the gloves. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The hat and the gloves. Betting on horses. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ooh. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughter] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How old are you? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m 76 now. I was 41 then. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What’s your sentence? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">LWOP.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">LWOP stands for life without parole. Most people say life without the possibility of parole, but it’s life without parole. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right. And considering that’s what she’s dealing with, there’s a lot more going on with her beyond this proper southern lady description we gave. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, definitely. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What is the Senior Center about? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When it first opened, I wasn’t real impressed because I thought it was just a way for them to say they did something for us when we’re really used to being invisible. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you say invisible, do you mean being someone who’s in prison or being a woman, being someone who’s older? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Being elderly. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Can you talk about that invisibility? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is set up for young people, basically. Even at 50, I felt young. You can do it. You can keep up with the program. You can hustle. You just keep the pace. It’s a fast pace. And at 76, I don’t care how hard you try, and I’ve got two hip replacements and deteriorating bones. You can’t keep the pace anymore. You just can’t. The getting up, even getting ready and getting out the door, it’s a challenge. Or to get to the shower and to have to use a particular shower because another shower is slippery and you might fall. There are struggles everywhere. I don’t want to go around saying, “I can’t do this,” or, “I can’t do that.” I got the cane and I won’t make it. The grace of God, I’m going to be okay. But it makes it so much more difficult. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We have a lot of people here now who are over 70, 75, 80 years old, and I don’t think they’ve ever had this kind of accumulation of elderly before. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, when you came in at 41, is that what you said, were there elderly women? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Very, very few. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And do you remember seeing any older women– \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what did you think when–? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, my heart went out to them because I had wonderful relationships with my grandparents. And so, you try to help them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But when you saw them, did it worry you, like, “Oh, my God, that could be me one day”? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I never thought that this would last that long. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I first came into the women’s prison, I was thrown by seeing older women in prison. It wasn’t even in my mindset. I didn’t even think older women would be in prison. And I spent a long time in men prison. I’m used to seeing older men, and when I seen it, I was like, “Damn.” I don’t know, that was one of them days you just left depleted. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Are there a lot of older men in prison? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. Earlonne and I have talked about this a lot. We find it way harder to see older women in prison. I don’t think about it when I’m at a men’s prison and there’s plenty of old men there. Why do you think it’s so much harder for us to see older women in prison? Like you said, it’s draining. It is really heavy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, that’s a good question. And it’s interesting because to me, it would be sad to see older men too. It’s sad with women because the saddest thing for me is family. I’ll start crying if I talk about it, so I’d rather not. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, but why do you think it affects us so much? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, because we’re maternal. Mothers are not meant to make mistakes and commit crimes and come to prison. We’re just not. And I hate the fact that I did this to my family. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I feel like older women are not supposed to be in prison, and I’m trying to figure out why I don’t have that feeling about older men. You know what I mean? It’s very hard for me to separate my heart feeling. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Were you very close to your mother? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m very close to my mother. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think, like I said before, we’re all a product of our environment. Just like me, I had a great relationship, as I said, not only with my grandparents, but with my mother. So, when I would see these elderly ladies in prison when I first came, I’d make their beds, I’d do their laundry, anything I could to help them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Your supposition is that the three of us have very close relationships with older women in our lives, or did. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Maybe if not even with your inner family, with someone older that influenced your life. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But now, I’m smiling because what does that say about what we think about men? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, did you have a great relationship with your father? [laughs] \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have very different feelings about men than I have about women. And now, I’m wondering–\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> [crosstalk] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I do too. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you for that revelation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[chuckles] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m ready for the hereafter. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You are? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How so? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I believe I’m going to heaven. I believe in heaven. I don’t have a real close personal relationship with my grandchildren because my son was raised coming to prison to see mom. He was only six at the time. And he has decided he doesn’t want his children to know that I’m in prison. And I have to respect that. My son and I talk a couple of times a week, and I get tons and tons of pictures and videos and everything of the kids, but we tiptoe around it, and it’s heartbreaking. My daughter-in-law is a schoolteacher, and she’s wonderful. But she was trying to get him to go to a funeral one day. He who’s usually very accommodating and kind, said, “I’m not going to any funerals. I live with the death that never ends.” Meaning I can’t take anymore. He’s very emotional. And so, I think once I’m gone I’m gone, and he don’t have to continue living the death that never ends. “My mom’s gone, and she can’t come home.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, it’s heavy. It’s heavy aging in prison and not just dealing with it myself but trying to help others to deal with it. My family, especially my child. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The heartache never ends. You accept it, but it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t hurt.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pendarvis Harshaw, Rightnowish Host: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was an excerpt from Radiotopia’s podcast, Ear Hustle. To listen to the rest of this episode look up “Ep 94: Once You’re in the Ocean, You’re Going Everywhere” on ear hustlesq.com. To hear other Ear Hustle episodes- they have 13 seasons so plenty to immerse yourself in- find them on your favorite podcast app. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Big ups to their team! Ear Hustle is produced by Nigel Poor, Earlonne Woods, Amy Standen, Bruce Wallace, and Rahsaan “New York” Thomas. Shabnam Sigman is the managing producer. The producing team inside San Quentin includes Steve Brooks, Derrell Sadiq Davis, Tony de Trinidad, Tam Nguyen and Tony Tafoya. Earlonne Woods sound designs and engineers the show with help from Fernando Arruda and Derrell Sadiq Davis. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode was made possible by The Just Trust, working to amplify the voices, vision and power of communities that are transforming the justice system. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks y’all. Love on your people. Peace.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-12127869\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"78\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-768x75.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cem>Rightnowish is an arts and culture podcast produced at KQED. Listen to it wherever you get your podcasts or click the play button at the top of this page and subscribe to the show on \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/721590300/rightnowish\">NPR One\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/7kEJuafTzTVan7B78ttz1I\">Spotify\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rightnowish/id1482187648\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://tunein.com/podcasts/Arts--Culture-Podcasts/Rightnowish-p1258245/\">TuneIn\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/rightnowish\">Stitcher\u003c/a> or wherever you get your podcasts. \u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]=\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"title": "‘Ear Hustle’ Introduces Us to Seniors in the California Institution for Women | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As we celebrate Mother’s Day, we’re taking some time to honor all the kinds of relationships that people have with their mothers. We’re especially thinking about those who are missing their mothers or mothers who are missing their children.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>More than just thinking about them, we’re hearing from them. This week we’re passing the mic to our friends over at the podcast \u003ca href=\"https://www.earhustlesq.com/episodes/2023/9/20/once-youre-in-the-ocean-youre-going-everywhere\">Ear Hustle\u003c/a>, from PRX’s Radiotopia. It’s a special episode that highlights the stories of elderly mothers who are incarcerated at the California Institution for Women, a prison located in Chino, CA.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Their tales of aging behind bars while yearning for family are gut-wrenching but necessary. We can’t grow as a people unless we understand the plight of those on the margins of society. And when it comes to ensuring that we grow as a people, that’s something that mothers know best.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Happy Mother’s Day from the Rightnowish family!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC2810419346\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pendarvis Harshaw, Rightnowish Host:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Hey ya’ll, welcome to Rightnowish. I’m your host Pendarvis Harshaw. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s Mother’s Day weekend, a day for celebration — and for some, a day that opens wounds. I want to give some love to those who have strained relationships or are missing their moms in one way or another. I’m also thinking about the mothers who are missing their children.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Today, we’re going to hear from some mothers who are incarcerated, particularly senior women with adult children. We’ll do that by passing the mic to our friends at Radiotopia’s Ear Hustle, a podcast that shares the daily realities of life inside prison, from those living it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this episode, co-hosts Earlonne Woods and Nigel Poor pay a visit to the senior center located at the California Institution for Women, and talk to residents about aging and navigating family relationships from within prison walls. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A heavy, but much needed discussion, coming up right after this.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor, Ear Hustle Co-Host: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m just going to describe the scene a little bit. There’s a big television on the wall. It was probably about 54 inches and we’re watching PBS and there’s a woman stretching and Earlonne is really getting into it. He’s doing modern dance right now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods, Ear Hustle Co-Host: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jeans, Nigel. These are not yoga pants. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He’s still doing a really good job. And Bruce is even jumping in a little bit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I can do that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[workout audio playing in the background] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This was at the California Institution for Women, a prison near LA where you and I have been spending a lot of time these days, Nyge. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And we are in a room they call the Senior Center. But don’t think about some big fancy complex. It’s basically a large carpeted windowless room in a structure that is kind of like a double-wide trailer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Where’s your rhythm? You done threw us off.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[background chattering] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She’s going there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I got a bad knee and a replaced knee now, y’all. \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughter] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know how they always tell us we have to keep our distance inside prison? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mm-hmm. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I loved how we could just kind of let our guard down a little bit. It was really fun to kick back and try to keep up with those ladies. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I felt like I got my workout in for the day. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[chuckles]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I feel it. I definitely feel it. I feel stretched. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m putting my shoes back on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wait a minute. Hold on. What you mean you putting your shoes back on? Nigel, we only two minutes into this. Leslie’s still going. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know. She’s good. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Are you done? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Our friend, Leslie, is kind of the ringleader here at the Senior Center, which come to think of it, just got a rebranding. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, it did. So right now, we are in the She Shed, which I like better than the Senior Center, I have to say. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, it’s kind of fun. We’ll see how it goes over. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. It brings up conversation when you say it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, Nyge, with all the time that they give you in California, the prison population is kind of old. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s aging. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There are segments that are and have been there for a long time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Definitely. And Leslie is part of that. She’s been in prison, I mean, since her 20s. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, 19. So, her idea for the Senior Center was, how can we make prison more accommodating for old people? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, Leslie convinced the prison to open up this room, and she got some boardgames and some greenery and lamps and started getting the word out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At first, I thought I would be like Julie from The Love Boat, create these programs, social director and all this. But it’s been a long, slow process of getting people curious and interested. At first, there was, I think, a feeling that this was a Band-Aid on an ongoing problem of the aging population, and so they weren’t going to come. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Were people angry at you or resentful that you were wanting to spearhead this? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t think that– it could have been, and I missed it, but I think it was just more angry that they’re still incarcerated. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[pensive music] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We can’t do much about the diet, but we can stay in mental shape and physical and spiritual. This is hopefully more of a holistic thing to stay sharp and good and also being recognized, because I don’t think people are aware that there’s so many women over 60 incarcerated. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Gladys Ortiz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My name is Gladys Ortiz. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What do you love about the Senior Center? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Gladys Ortiz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s so much to do there. Yeah, and you get to socialize with people your age.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How long have you been incarcerated? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Gladys Ortiz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Seven. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what is your sentence? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Gladys Ortiz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I got 15 years. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oka\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">y. How old were you when you came to prison? \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Gladys Ortiz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">60 years old. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Had you ever been to prison before? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Gladys Ortiz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Never. It’s a little embarrassing too, because I have my grown children who now have to learn how to maneuver prison. And then, I learned about 50-minute phone calls. I never thought I’d be here. Never. It’s like, wow. None of my friends back home– I’ve disappeared, I’ve just fallen off the face of the earth. Nobody knows I’m here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What do they think happened to you? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Gladys Ortiz: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t know. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These older women, you don’t really see them when you’re walking around the main part of the prison. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nah, they don’t hang out like that. They probably spend a lot of their time in the cell. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, it’s actually cool when you get to the Senior Center and it’s a place just for them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yep. It’s a cubbyhole, you know what I’m saying? They get to go hang out. They got air conditioning and you definitely need that in that part of California. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You definitely want air conditioning. So, I think that makes it attractive. But it’s open every day and they have so many activities, like the exercising. They have different people coming in to give talks. And once a week, I think at least once a week, they show movies. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Have you all seen The Notebook? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Female Speaker: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What do you think of it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I wasn’t into it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Men love this movie and women are like, “Really?” Oh, wait a minute. You said you loved it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Female Speaker: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, I loved it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, okay. I take back what I said. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughter] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Female Speaker: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I thought it was interesting and educational for people who’ve never had an instance to recognize Alzheimer’s.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Earlonne I love this. Men see The Notebook as a romance movie, and women, at least here at the Senior Center, see it as an Alzheimer’s movie. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Female Speaker: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. It’s quite a distressing disease, not only for the person suffering, but for all of the family as well. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, you were more drawn to it because of that, not because of the romance? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Female Speaker: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, not the romance. [laughs] I want you to see how they portray the Alzheimer’s. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The romance seemed a little corny. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just have to say this, I’ve never met so many men in my life that cried over this movie than at San Quentin. Even this dude got all teary about it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Did I? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, we need to rewatch it and think about that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You told me you did, you find it very emotional. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was a cool story. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, one of the most popular things to do in this little area are these bicycles. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Really? Bicycles? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean well, they’re like miniatures. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re like little pedals on the ground. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Pedals, sprockets. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, after the stretching, I think we wanted to redeem ourselves, so we both sat down and started pedaling. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Earlonne Woods. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Nigel. Nigel Poor. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LaVelma: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nigel. Earlonne. And? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bruce: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bruce. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LaVelma Byrd: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bruce. LaVelma Byrd. Yes, thank you. Pleased to meet you all. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How long have you been here, LaVelma? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LaVelma: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, 29 years. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What are you doing right now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LaVelma Byrd: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You seen that little thing on TV where people sit in their chair and work their legs? That’s what this is. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s like a bike. A little bike. And are you a senior? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LaVelma Byrd: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m 72. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">72, okay. What is this? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LaVelma Byrd: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because I have arthritis in both of my hands and the bouncing, I made this little soft cushion for my hands when I’m walking with my walker. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you remember LaVelma and her walker? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was all decked out. She’d done all this handiwork crocheting to make the handles softer and give it some personality. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, she was cool. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you find that do you stay separate from the younger people? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LaVelma Byrd: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As much as possible. [laughs] I’m going to be totally honest. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Are they bullies, or they just have a different way? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LaVelma Byrd: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you think it would be a good idea to have younger people house separately? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LaVelma Byrd: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, ma’am. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LaVelma Byrd: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And some of the old rowdy ones too. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughter] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LaVelma Byrd: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Don’t leave them out. There’s a few of them too. They’re up in age. They should know better. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you stepped in here 29 years ago, how was you moving? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>LaVelma Byrd: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, I was out working out every day. I was running 30 laps around the track every day. I was in good shape when I came here. But now, gravity and everything else have caught up with me. \u003cem>[laughs] \u003c/em>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christine: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Ms. Christine. We started calling each other– the older people started calling us by our first names, but we say Miss. So, Ms. Lainey, Ms. Candice, Ms. Christine, Ms. Leslie. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Leslie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I didn’t know that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughter] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You remember Christine, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yep. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She definitely spends a lot of time down the Senior Center. And she had that beautiful long \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Braid. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">-silver braid. And she’s the type of person that likes to sit against the wall and kind of take in the whole scene, makes sure she knows everything that’s happening down there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christine: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ve been here four years and was three years in Chowchilla, so I haven’t been here as long as some people. I came to prison when I was 72. Not all of us are lifelong criminals. And speaking for myself, most of my friends have been teachers and nurses and lawyers, and one is a doctor. And we are not lifelong criminals, and we’d really prefer not to be around criminal activity in prison. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know I’m a criminal. I did commit a crime when I was 71. But as a person, I am not a criminal. I’ve not ever led a criminal lifestyle. I was never arrested before. And many of these older people are in the same boat that I’m in. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It took 71 years to commit a crime? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christine: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. Alcohol and a loaded gun, and one second, and now I’m a criminal for the rest of my life. But I’m not asking for sympathy. I know that’s what happened, and I know that I’m here. I just would prefer while in prison not to be around people who led a criminal lifestyle. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, we don’t normally do this, but you brought it up. Can we ask you what your crime was? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christine: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. I killed someone when I was drunk and a loaded gun was there. I am here for first-degree murder, and not only first degree, but also gun enhancement, which means that I’ll never get out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And who did you kill? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christine: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I killed a close relative. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, what we really wanted to talk to you about is what is it like, as you were saying, to come to prison at 71 when you’ve lived a long, professional life? I believe you were– \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christine: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was a retired nurse. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And how does someone adjust? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christine: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a rude shock. [chuckles] It’s a very rude shock. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. I mean, did you ever see this in your future? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christine: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No. I never thought about prison. I never considered prison. It was totally not in my world. I always thought that really, really bad, hardened people who had committed terrible crimes went to prison, obviously. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tell us, what is it like when you’re 71 to walk into a prison? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christine: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They gave me an upper bunk, first of all, which it was hard. It was hard because I have to get up and pee during the night. So, it means you have to come down carefully, get to the bathroom, get up carefully without waking anybody up and all that a couple of times a night. It was very difficult. I was put in with people that fought in the room, had fights with each other, girlfriends, always these jealousy fights and blood, women having sex with each other in the shower or over to the side of me. And I got used to all of that. But people being up all night because they were tweaking and they were up all night making noise, and I couldn’t sleep. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I moved into a room with this couple, and they liked to play the radio really loud, and it was rap music. And I asked them one day if they would turn it down, and they just turned on me [chuckles] like wild beasts. And they told me, “Get out of the room.” And I got out of the room for a while. But you can absolutely not tell anybody in the room in Chowchilla what kind of noise they can make or can’t make. That’s a huge issue. I had no clout at all. I had no clout. I had nothing. I didn’t sell drugs. I didn’t have any stature there at all. So I was like at the bottom of the heap. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You were just an old person in prison. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Christine: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was an old person without a whole lot to offer. And I wasn’t even an interesting old person that could do drugs or something or that had anything going for me in prison at all. I didn’t have anything. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My name’s Lanie. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How long have you been in prison? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Since 1988. I’m sorry I have a new partial– \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughs]\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and I’m having a hard time in case I sound a little old lady stuff. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lanie came in, she had those bright eyes with the short hairstyle, and she was very engaging. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. I mean, I found her proper. I don’t know what else to say. Hospitable. And she seemed to me like a character out of a southern novel. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Kentucky Derby. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Maybe, with the hat and the gloves. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The hat and the gloves. Betting on horses. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ooh. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[laughter] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How old are you? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m 76 now. I was 41 then. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What’s your sentence? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">LWOP.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">LWOP stands for life without parole. Most people say life without the possibility of parole, but it’s life without parole. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right. And considering that’s what she’s dealing with, there’s a lot more going on with her beyond this proper southern lady description we gave. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, definitely. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What is the Senior Center about? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When it first opened, I wasn’t real impressed because I thought it was just a way for them to say they did something for us when we’re really used to being invisible. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When you say invisible, do you mean being someone who’s in prison or being a woman, being someone who’s older? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Being elderly. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Can you talk about that invisibility? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is set up for young people, basically. Even at 50, I felt young. You can do it. You can keep up with the program. You can hustle. You just keep the pace. It’s a fast pace. And at 76, I don’t care how hard you try, and I’ve got two hip replacements and deteriorating bones. You can’t keep the pace anymore. You just can’t. The getting up, even getting ready and getting out the door, it’s a challenge. Or to get to the shower and to have to use a particular shower because another shower is slippery and you might fall. There are struggles everywhere. I don’t want to go around saying, “I can’t do this,” or, “I can’t do that.” I got the cane and I won’t make it. The grace of God, I’m going to be okay. But it makes it so much more difficult. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We have a lot of people here now who are over 70, 75, 80 years old, and I don’t think they’ve ever had this kind of accumulation of elderly before. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, when you came in at 41, is that what you said, were there elderly women? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Very, very few. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And do you remember seeing any older women– \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what did you think when–? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, my heart went out to them because I had wonderful relationships with my grandparents. And so, you try to help them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But when you saw them, did it worry you, like, “Oh, my God, that could be me one day”? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I never thought that this would last that long. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Earlonne Woods: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I first came into the women’s prison, I was thrown by seeing older women in prison. It wasn’t even in my mindset. I didn’t even think older women would be in prison. And I spent a long time in men prison. I’m used to seeing older men, and when I seen it, I was like, “Damn.” I don’t know, that was one of them days you just left depleted. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Are there a lot of older men in prison? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. Earlonne and I have talked about this a lot. We find it way harder to see older women in prison. I don’t think about it when I’m at a men’s prison and there’s plenty of old men there. Why do you think it’s so much harder for us to see older women in prison? Like you said, it’s draining. It is really heavy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, that’s a good question. And it’s interesting because to me, it would be sad to see older men too. It’s sad with women because the saddest thing for me is family. I’ll start crying if I talk about it, so I’d rather not. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, but why do you think it affects us so much? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, because we’re maternal. Mothers are not meant to make mistakes and commit crimes and come to prison. We’re just not. And I hate the fact that I did this to my family. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I feel like older women are not supposed to be in prison, and I’m trying to figure out why I don’t have that feeling about older men. You know what I mean? It’s very hard for me to separate my heart feeling. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Were you very close to your mother? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m very close to my mother. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think, like I said before, we’re all a product of our environment. Just like me, I had a great relationship, as I said, not only with my grandparents, but with my mother. So, when I would see these elderly ladies in prison when I first came, I’d make their beds, I’d do their laundry, anything I could to help them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Your supposition is that the three of us have very close relationships with older women in our lives, or did. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Maybe if not even with your inner family, with someone older that influenced your life. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But now, I’m smiling because what does that say about what we think about men? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, did you have a great relationship with your father? [laughs] \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have very different feelings about men than I have about women. And now, I’m wondering–\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> [crosstalk] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I do too. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you for that revelation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[chuckles] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m ready for the hereafter. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You are? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How so? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I believe I’m going to heaven. I believe in heaven. I don’t have a real close personal relationship with my grandchildren because my son was raised coming to prison to see mom. He was only six at the time. And he has decided he doesn’t want his children to know that I’m in prison. And I have to respect that. My son and I talk a couple of times a week, and I get tons and tons of pictures and videos and everything of the kids, but we tiptoe around it, and it’s heartbreaking. My daughter-in-law is a schoolteacher, and she’s wonderful. But she was trying to get him to go to a funeral one day. He who’s usually very accommodating and kind, said, “I’m not going to any funerals. I live with the death that never ends.” Meaning I can’t take anymore. He’s very emotional. And so, I think once I’m gone I’m gone, and he don’t have to continue living the death that never ends. “My mom’s gone, and she can’t come home.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, it’s heavy. It’s heavy aging in prison and not just dealing with it myself but trying to help others to deal with it. My family, especially my child. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lanie: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The heartache never ends. You accept it, but it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t hurt.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Nigel Poor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Pendarvis Harshaw, Rightnowish Host: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was an excerpt from Radiotopia’s podcast, Ear Hustle. To listen to the rest of this episode look up “Ep 94: Once You’re in the Ocean, You’re Going Everywhere” on ear hustlesq.com. To hear other Ear Hustle episodes- they have 13 seasons so plenty to immerse yourself in- find them on your favorite podcast app. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Big ups to their team! Ear Hustle is produced by Nigel Poor, Earlonne Woods, Amy Standen, Bruce Wallace, and Rahsaan “New York” Thomas. Shabnam Sigman is the managing producer. The producing team inside San Quentin includes Steve Brooks, Derrell Sadiq Davis, Tony de Trinidad, Tam Nguyen and Tony Tafoya. Earlonne Woods sound designs and engineers the show with help from Fernando Arruda and Derrell Sadiq Davis. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode was made possible by The Just Trust, working to amplify the voices, vision and power of communities that are transforming the justice system. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks y’all. Love on your people. Peace.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-12127869\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"78\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-768x75.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cem>Rightnowish is an arts and culture podcast produced at KQED. Listen to it wherever you get your podcasts or click the play button at the top of this page and subscribe to the show on \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/721590300/rightnowish\">NPR One\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/7kEJuafTzTVan7B78ttz1I\">Spotify\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rightnowish/id1482187648\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://tunein.com/podcasts/Arts--Culture-Podcasts/Rightnowish-p1258245/\">TuneIn\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/rightnowish\">Stitcher\u003c/a> or wherever you get your podcasts. \u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"title": "San Quentin Can Rebrand, But Prison Is Still Prison",
"headTitle": "San Quentin Can Rebrand, But Prison Is Still Prison | KQED",
"content": "\u003cp>Behind the concrete walls and steel bars of San Quentin State Prison sit more than 3,000 people, currently serving time. The facility itself sits on 432 acres of land in Marin County, one of the top five wealthiest counties per capita in the United States, where well-off residents walk their dogs and take in gorgeous views of the San Francisco Bay on a beach that’s just a stone’s throw from the 171-year-old complex.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While the natural environment surrounding San Quentin is a reminder of why so many love this region, inside, the prison exemplifies one of the largest issues plaguing this country: a failed carceral system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13927021\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-13927021\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.bay_-800x450.jpg\" alt=\"A man gazes toward a large concrete complex that sits near a bay of water.\" width=\"800\" height=\"450\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.bay_-800x450.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.bay_-1020x574.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.bay_-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.bay_-768x432.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.bay_-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.bay_.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">San Quentin State Prison, the subject of Adamu Chan’s new documentary, ‘What These Walls Won’t Hold.’ \u003ccite>(Courtesy of SFFILM)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In 2020, San Quentin was home to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11825930/as-coronavirus-cases-surge-at-san-quentin-lawmakers-demand-an-explanation\">one of the largest COVID-19 outbreaks of any prison in the country\u003c/a>. Since then, according to the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, San Quentin has been the site of \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/covid19/population-status-tracking/\">over 3,000 confirmed cases and 28 total deaths\u003c/a> directly related to the virus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Just a few months after the initial outbreak at San Quentin, filmmaker \u003ca href=\"https://www.adamuchan.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Adamu Chan\u003c/a> was released from its gates. And in April, \u003ca href=\"https://sffilm.org/event/what-these-walls-wont-hold-how-we-get-free-sol-in-the-garden-cgv/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">the San Francisco Film Festival\u003c/a> will screen Chan’s latest film, inspired by his experiences, titled \u003cem>What These Walls Won’t Hold\u003c/em>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID='arts_13889012']Taking viewers into the United States’ massive prison system, the film focuses on how people rely upon each other in order to navigate the dehumanizing elements of a system that controls them and the facility that confines them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Throughout the story, Chan shares personal reflections about the circle of friends he developed inside of San Quentin, as well as the community outside of its walls. He details the contradictions between the harsh reality of being behind bars and the intrinsic beauty of the natural environment around the facility.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Driving the story are written letters to and from Chan. Through these notes, viewers gain an understanding of Chan’s friendship with poet and organizer \u003ca href=\"http://isaborgeson.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Isa Borgeson\u003c/a>. And just as viewers see Chan’s own reentry process, the film covers the homecoming ceremonies of \u003cem>San Quentin News\u003c/em> editor \u003ca href=\"https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/stories-by-joe-rosato-jr/long-time-editor-of-san-quentin-newspaper-savors-freedom-after-23-years/2568246/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Richard “Bonaru” Richardson\u003c/a>, Ear Hustle co-host \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13924925/ear-hustle-podcast-co-host-rahsaan-thomas-is-free-from-san-quentin-prison\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Rahsaan “New York” Thomas\u003c/a> and longtime San Quentin resident and restorative justice practitioner \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfweekly.com/archives/no-way-out/article_9ab986b7-eefd-54d0-9520-bdf921963b58.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Lonnie Morris\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13927023\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-13927023\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.hug_-800x450.jpg\" alt=\"A man with graying hair and a plaid shirt embraces a shorter woman, burying his head in her shoulders.\" width=\"800\" height=\"450\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.hug_-800x450.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.hug_-1020x574.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.hug_-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.hug_-768x432.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.hug_-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.hug_.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">San Quentin News editor Richard ‘Bonaru’ Richardson comes home in Adamu Chan’s documentary ‘What These Walls Won’t Hold.’ \u003ccite>(Courtesy of SFFILM)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Morris’ scene is especially poignant; after making his way out of San Quentin’s gates, he’s embraced with congratulatory hugs, comments of love, and praises of “you did it.” (He’s quick to correct people, saying “\u003cem>we\u003c/em> did it.”) Addressing the crowd with a speech that toes the line of a prayer, Morris speaks on the importance of living in the present moment, valuing those around you, and honoring the creator. As his speech winds down, someone in the crowd says “Now let’s get away from San Quentin!” — to which Morris vigorously agrees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But just because you’re home doesn’t mean you’re \u003cem>free\u003c/em>, as Chan explains to me. When we talk, Chan — a \u003ca href=\"https://ccsre.stanford.edu/people/adamu-chan\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">2022 CCSRE Mellon Arts Fellow\u003c/a> at Stanford University — lets out a laugh of frustration and tells me he’s just gotten word that he was denied the ability to travel to New York, where he was scheduled to attend and present at a conference at Columbia University.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chan’s disheartening call came days after Governor Gavin Newsom announced plans to change the model of San Quentin: from California’s oldest functional prison, with the largest death row in the nation, to a restorative facility largely based on prison models in Norway. The idea came after stakeholders, elected officials and people who’ve spent time in prison visited the Scandinavian country last year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID='arts_13904492']“Norway does a better job in certain senses,” says Chan, who was part of the Norway trip. He saw firsthand how prisons in the European country differ from the ones in the United States. But ultimately, he says, one thing remains the same: “It’s a prison system.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chan recognized that he was on a guided tour, he tells me, and adds that “they will only show you what they want you to see.” San Quentin, which also offers tours to visitors, similarly offers a selective view.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“(San Quentin) is like a living museum, a show prison. They’ll show carceral practices of the past so they can show you how far we’ve progressed,” Chan tells me, using the example of the prison’s relatively new hospital, which sits atop a defunct dungeon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13927022\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-13927022\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/Whatthesewalls.camera-800x450.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"450\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/Whatthesewalls.camera-800x450.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/Whatthesewalls.camera-1020x574.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/Whatthesewalls.camera-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/Whatthesewalls.camera-768x432.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/Whatthesewalls.camera-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/Whatthesewalls.camera-2048x1152.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/Whatthesewalls.camera-1920x1080.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Filming ‘What These Walls Won’t Hold.’ \u003ccite>(Courtesy of SFFILM)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Inside of San Quentin, a wide array of programs are available, such as coding, theatre, restorative justice, and an award-winning newspaper. But space within those programs is limited, and not every person can benefit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chan, who did benefit from San Quentin’s programs, is in support of people inside having greater freedoms and access. But he questions the overall notion of rehabilitation coming from state-sanctioned isolation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While the stuff he saw in Norway was moving — a full grocery store, spacious bunks — people there are still isolated, separated from friends and family, and controlled by a governing system. Fundamentally, Chan says, it’s no different than what people experience in the States.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID='forum_2010101888959']“What we need is better prisons?” Chan asks rhetorically, questioning the philosophy behind the proposed changes. “No,” Chan answers, “What we need is something that deals with the larger issues we’re up against. We need to question where violence comes from. We need to question, \u003ci>what is violence\u003c/i>?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the face of the sweeping natural hills that surround San Quentin, big claims of rehabilitation from elected officials, and resources permitted to San Quentin residents that aren’t accessible to folks in other prisons in California, Chan is clear about how he survived while incarcerated: community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The people that I was privileged to be around,” Chan tells me, “we benefited from building our own community, smaller systems of care and accountability, and supporting each other.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, Chan is looking to share this story beyond the prison’s walls.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-12904247\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/2/2017/03/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"400\" height=\"39\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/03/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/03/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39-160x16.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/03/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39-240x23.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/03/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39-375x37.jpg 375w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>‘What These Walls Won’t Hold’ screens as part of the San Francisco Film Festival on Saturday, April 15 at 12pm and Sunday, April 16 at 2pm. \u003ca href=\"//sffilm.org/2023-festival-program/\">Details here\u003c/a>.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Behind the concrete walls and steel bars of San Quentin State Prison sit more than 3,000 people, currently serving time. The facility itself sits on 432 acres of land in Marin County, one of the top five wealthiest counties per capita in the United States, where well-off residents walk their dogs and take in gorgeous views of the San Francisco Bay on a beach that’s just a stone’s throw from the 171-year-old complex.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While the natural environment surrounding San Quentin is a reminder of why so many love this region, inside, the prison exemplifies one of the largest issues plaguing this country: a failed carceral system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13927021\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-13927021\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.bay_-800x450.jpg\" alt=\"A man gazes toward a large concrete complex that sits near a bay of water.\" width=\"800\" height=\"450\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.bay_-800x450.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.bay_-1020x574.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.bay_-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.bay_-768x432.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.bay_-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.bay_.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">San Quentin State Prison, the subject of Adamu Chan’s new documentary, ‘What These Walls Won’t Hold.’ \u003ccite>(Courtesy of SFFILM)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In 2020, San Quentin was home to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11825930/as-coronavirus-cases-surge-at-san-quentin-lawmakers-demand-an-explanation\">one of the largest COVID-19 outbreaks of any prison in the country\u003c/a>. Since then, according to the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, San Quentin has been the site of \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/covid19/population-status-tracking/\">over 3,000 confirmed cases and 28 total deaths\u003c/a> directly related to the virus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Just a few months after the initial outbreak at San Quentin, filmmaker \u003ca href=\"https://www.adamuchan.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Adamu Chan\u003c/a> was released from its gates. And in April, \u003ca href=\"https://sffilm.org/event/what-these-walls-wont-hold-how-we-get-free-sol-in-the-garden-cgv/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">the San Francisco Film Festival\u003c/a> will screen Chan’s latest film, inspired by his experiences, titled \u003cem>What These Walls Won’t Hold\u003c/em>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Taking viewers into the United States’ massive prison system, the film focuses on how people rely upon each other in order to navigate the dehumanizing elements of a system that controls them and the facility that confines them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Throughout the story, Chan shares personal reflections about the circle of friends he developed inside of San Quentin, as well as the community outside of its walls. He details the contradictions between the harsh reality of being behind bars and the intrinsic beauty of the natural environment around the facility.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Driving the story are written letters to and from Chan. Through these notes, viewers gain an understanding of Chan’s friendship with poet and organizer \u003ca href=\"http://isaborgeson.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Isa Borgeson\u003c/a>. And just as viewers see Chan’s own reentry process, the film covers the homecoming ceremonies of \u003cem>San Quentin News\u003c/em> editor \u003ca href=\"https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/stories-by-joe-rosato-jr/long-time-editor-of-san-quentin-newspaper-savors-freedom-after-23-years/2568246/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Richard “Bonaru” Richardson\u003c/a>, Ear Hustle co-host \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13924925/ear-hustle-podcast-co-host-rahsaan-thomas-is-free-from-san-quentin-prison\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Rahsaan “New York” Thomas\u003c/a> and longtime San Quentin resident and restorative justice practitioner \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfweekly.com/archives/no-way-out/article_9ab986b7-eefd-54d0-9520-bdf921963b58.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Lonnie Morris\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13927023\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-13927023\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.hug_-800x450.jpg\" alt=\"A man with graying hair and a plaid shirt embraces a shorter woman, burying his head in her shoulders.\" width=\"800\" height=\"450\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.hug_-800x450.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.hug_-1020x574.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.hug_-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.hug_-768x432.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.hug_-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/WhatTheseWalls.hug_.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">San Quentin News editor Richard ‘Bonaru’ Richardson comes home in Adamu Chan’s documentary ‘What These Walls Won’t Hold.’ \u003ccite>(Courtesy of SFFILM)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Morris’ scene is especially poignant; after making his way out of San Quentin’s gates, he’s embraced with congratulatory hugs, comments of love, and praises of “you did it.” (He’s quick to correct people, saying “\u003cem>we\u003c/em> did it.”) Addressing the crowd with a speech that toes the line of a prayer, Morris speaks on the importance of living in the present moment, valuing those around you, and honoring the creator. As his speech winds down, someone in the crowd says “Now let’s get away from San Quentin!” — to which Morris vigorously agrees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But just because you’re home doesn’t mean you’re \u003cem>free\u003c/em>, as Chan explains to me. When we talk, Chan — a \u003ca href=\"https://ccsre.stanford.edu/people/adamu-chan\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">2022 CCSRE Mellon Arts Fellow\u003c/a> at Stanford University — lets out a laugh of frustration and tells me he’s just gotten word that he was denied the ability to travel to New York, where he was scheduled to attend and present at a conference at Columbia University.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chan’s disheartening call came days after Governor Gavin Newsom announced plans to change the model of San Quentin: from California’s oldest functional prison, with the largest death row in the nation, to a restorative facility largely based on prison models in Norway. The idea came after stakeholders, elected officials and people who’ve spent time in prison visited the Scandinavian country last year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“Norway does a better job in certain senses,” says Chan, who was part of the Norway trip. He saw firsthand how prisons in the European country differ from the ones in the United States. But ultimately, he says, one thing remains the same: “It’s a prison system.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chan recognized that he was on a guided tour, he tells me, and adds that “they will only show you what they want you to see.” San Quentin, which also offers tours to visitors, similarly offers a selective view.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“(San Quentin) is like a living museum, a show prison. They’ll show carceral practices of the past so they can show you how far we’ve progressed,” Chan tells me, using the example of the prison’s relatively new hospital, which sits atop a defunct dungeon.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13927022\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-13927022\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/Whatthesewalls.camera-800x450.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"450\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/Whatthesewalls.camera-800x450.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/Whatthesewalls.camera-1020x574.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/Whatthesewalls.camera-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/Whatthesewalls.camera-768x432.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/Whatthesewalls.camera-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/Whatthesewalls.camera-2048x1152.jpg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/Whatthesewalls.camera-1920x1080.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Filming ‘What These Walls Won’t Hold.’ \u003ccite>(Courtesy of SFFILM)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Inside of San Quentin, a wide array of programs are available, such as coding, theatre, restorative justice, and an award-winning newspaper. But space within those programs is limited, and not every person can benefit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chan, who did benefit from San Quentin’s programs, is in support of people inside having greater freedoms and access. But he questions the overall notion of rehabilitation coming from state-sanctioned isolation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While the stuff he saw in Norway was moving — a full grocery store, spacious bunks — people there are still isolated, separated from friends and family, and controlled by a governing system. Fundamentally, Chan says, it’s no different than what people experience in the States.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“What we need is better prisons?” Chan asks rhetorically, questioning the philosophy behind the proposed changes. “No,” Chan answers, “What we need is something that deals with the larger issues we’re up against. We need to question where violence comes from. We need to question, \u003ci>what is violence\u003c/i>?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the face of the sweeping natural hills that surround San Quentin, big claims of rehabilitation from elected officials, and resources permitted to San Quentin residents that aren’t accessible to folks in other prisons in California, Chan is clear about how he survived while incarcerated: community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The people that I was privileged to be around,” Chan tells me, “we benefited from building our own community, smaller systems of care and accountability, and supporting each other.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, Chan is looking to share this story beyond the prison’s walls.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-12904247\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/2/2017/03/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"400\" height=\"39\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/03/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/03/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39-160x16.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/03/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39-240x23.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/03/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39-375x37.jpg 375w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px\">\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>‘What These Walls Won’t Hold’ screens as part of the San Francisco Film Festival on Saturday, April 15 at 12pm and Sunday, April 16 at 2pm. \u003ca href=\"//sffilm.org/2023-festival-program/\">Details here\u003c/a>.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\u003cp>A co-host of \u003cem>Ear Hustle\u003c/em>, the Pulitzer Prize-nominated podcast produced behind bars, was released from San Quentin State Prison on Wednesday, a year after California Gov. Gavin Newsom commuted his sentence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Rahsaan “New York” Thomas, 52, left the lockup near San Francisco and was greeted by his fellow podcast co-hosts Walter “Earlonne” Woods, who was freed in 2019, and Nigel Poor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re thrilled to welcome him home,” the podcast posted on its Twitter feed, along with photos of Thomas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://twitter.com/earhustlesq/status/1623392364394848258\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Thomas’ sentence was commuted by Newsom in Jan. 2022 and the state parole board granted his release on parole in August.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“While in prison, Mr. Thomas has dedicated himself to his rehabilitation,” Newsom wrote in the commutation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Thomas was serving a 55 1/2 years-to-life sentence for a second-degree murder conviction in 2000 and related charges after he fatally shot one victim and injured another during a drug deal. A Los Angeles County jury rejected his self-defense claim that he fatally shot a man who was trying to rob him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postid='arts_13847946']Since 2019, Thomas has been a co-producer and co-host of \u003cem>Ear Hustle\u003c/em>— named after prison slang for eavesdropping. He was also a regular contributor to the San Quentin News, along with publications outside prison walls. He served as chairman of the Society of Professional Journalists’ San Quentin satellite chapter and worked with several criminal justice reform groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Former governor Jerry Brown in 2018 commuted the sentence of Woods, the podcast’s co-creator, leading to his release. Woods continues to work on the outside as a full-time producer and co-host for the podcast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Ear Hustle\u003c/em>, which began in 2017, bills itself as “the first podcast created and produced in prison, featuring stories of the daily realities of life inside California’s San Quentin State Prison, shared by those living it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Copyright 2023 AP. To see more, visit \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">the AP\u003c/a>.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“While in prison, Mr. Thomas has dedicated himself to his rehabilitation,” Newsom wrote in the commutation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Thomas was serving a 55 1/2 years-to-life sentence for a second-degree murder conviction in 2000 and related charges after he fatally shot one victim and injured another during a drug deal. A Los Angeles County jury rejected his self-defense claim that he fatally shot a man who was trying to rob him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Since 2019, Thomas has been a co-producer and co-host of \u003cem>Ear Hustle\u003c/em>— named after prison slang for eavesdropping. He was also a regular contributor to the San Quentin News, along with publications outside prison walls. He served as chairman of the Society of Professional Journalists’ San Quentin satellite chapter and worked with several criminal justice reform groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Former governor Jerry Brown in 2018 commuted the sentence of Woods, the podcast’s co-creator, leading to his release. Woods continues to work on the outside as a full-time producer and co-host for the podcast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Ear Hustle\u003c/em>, which began in 2017, bills itself as “the first podcast created and produced in prison, featuring stories of the daily realities of life inside California’s San Quentin State Prison, shared by those living it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Copyright 2023 AP. To see more, visit \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">the AP\u003c/a>.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\u003cp>In California, inmates typically are granted parole by doing good deeds or showing they have been rehabilitated by becoming pastors, drug counselors or youth advocates. For Walter “Earlonne” Woods, the path to freedom was podcasting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Woods, 47, was recently released from San Quentin State Prison after California Gov. Jerry Brown commuted his 31-years-to-life sentence for attempted armed robbery. Brown cited Woods’ leadership in helping other inmates and his work at \u003cem>\u003ca href=\"https://www.earhustlesq.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Ear Hustle\u003c/a>\u003c/em>, a podcast he co-hosts and co-produces that documents everyday life inside the prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[contextly_sidebar id=”bovN0iytS11UduaaABra2NsTOerQTJGS”]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Woods has since been hired as a full-time producer for the often funny and at times heart-wrenching podcast, which has been a smashing success since its launch in 2017. The show’s roughly 30 episodes have been downloaded 20 million times by fans all over the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Listeners have praised \u003cem>Ear Hustle\u003c/em> online as “eye-opening” and “incredibly humanizing.” But for Woods, one of the most meaningful reviews came from the governor’s office when they called with the good news.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The one thing that the lady said, you know, she told me, ‘We love the podcast in this office,’” Woods told The Associated Press of the commutation call from Brown’s office. “I don’t know if the governor listens, but people in his office listen. People really like what we do.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[contextly_sidebar id=”eUXsgMZtpOGqnp4LPaFvoKeHnvtd6z91″]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During their podcast, Woods and fellow creator and outside co-host, prison volunteer Nigel Poor, give listeners a peek into the hardships and small joys of men incarcerated at the medium-security facility.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In interviews with the hosts, inmates discuss struggles such as finding a compatible cellmate to share a 5-by-10-foot cell, share why they take care of frogs or black widow spiders as if they were pets, or describe the impact of solitary confinement or being on death row.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Woods, an affable man with a quick smile and a sharp sense of humor, helps listeners understand prison life, while Poor brings an outsider’s perspective, asking insightful questions that at times push inmates to reflect on what put them behind bars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The podcast offers listeners an intimate look into lives society doesn’t spend much time thinking about, said Woods, who spent 21 years behind bars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“People get to see the car chases. They get to see the trial. But they don’t know what happens after you get to prison,” Woods said. “We’ve been able to really humanize people, and people realize that those in prison are just people who made dumb decisions.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Brown agreed, and in his commutation letter, issued the day before Thanksgiving, the governor said Woods “has clearly shown that he is no longer the man he was when he committed this crime.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[contextly_sidebar id=”kJNIbIEfNzWOH1nrVMIVBjmMk0eZYJCu”]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He has set a positive example for his peers and, through his podcast, has shared meaningful stories from those inside prison,” Brown wrote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The podcast project started after Poor, a San Francisco Bay Area artist who has volunteered at San Quentin since 2011, approached Woods.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2016, Poor saw Public Radio Exchange’s Radiotopia network was sponsoring a podcast talent contest, and she asked Lt. Sam Robinson, San Quentin’s spokesman, for permission to enter. Another co-creator, Antwan Williams, who is serving 15 years for armed robbery, came on board to do its sound design.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Their pitch beat more than 1,500 contestants from 53 countries, and they received the backing of a group of radio professionals, Poor said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Everyone was shocked when we won, especially the prison. Lt. Robinson told me he let us enter because he never thought we would win,” she said, laughing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Ear Hustle\u003c/em>—eavesdropping, in prison slang—has found international success, with fans sending cards and letters from as far as New Zealand, Qatar in the Middle East, and Mauritius in East Africa. The free show also can be accessed in prisons throughout California and the United Kingdom. New episodes are posted every couple of weeks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Julie Shapiro, Radiotopia executive producer, describes the podcast as a “roller coaster of emotions” that challenges what people understand about life in prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“People don’t expect to have something in common with those telling their stories from prison, but the details of their lives resonate with listeners because they hear these men encounter daily life in some of the same ways that we do,” Shapiro said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The outpouring of love and appreciation for the show has grown since Woods announced on a Nov. 24 episode that Brown commuted his sentence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The first thing Woods did after walking through the prison gates on Nov. 30 was take in the view of the San Francisco Bay and of the ocean “as far as the eye can see.” An episode featured his first moments as a free man.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[contextly_sidebar id=”QrmYxhZUEedCDFsDc5SDp83z4KHAZu7a”]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since then, he’s been noticing new styles, like women everywhere in yoga pants, and people walking through the streets with their heads bowed. He quickly realized they were looking at their smartphones, which didn’t exist when he started his sentence in 1997.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Woods has also spent time people-watching at a high-end department store, visited Disneyland and recently made eggs for the first time in two decades.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The fourth season of \u003cem>Ear Hustle\u003c/em>, which will be released this summer, will feature stories of his re-entry to society and interviews with other inmates released after long sentences. He and Poor also plan to visit maximum-security prisons and tell the stories of prisoners there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s a lot of people that’s in there that should be out,” Woods said. “I created a podcast, but I’m not the exception.”\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>In California, inmates typically are granted parole by doing good deeds or showing they have been rehabilitated by becoming pastors, drug counselors or youth advocates. For Walter “Earlonne” Woods, the path to freedom was podcasting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Woods, 47, was recently released from San Quentin State Prison after California Gov. Jerry Brown commuted his 31-years-to-life sentence for attempted armed robbery. Brown cited Woods’ leadership in helping other inmates and his work at \u003cem>\u003ca href=\"https://www.earhustlesq.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Ear Hustle\u003c/a>\u003c/em>, a podcast he co-hosts and co-produces that documents everyday life inside the prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Woods has since been hired as a full-time producer for the often funny and at times heart-wrenching podcast, which has been a smashing success since its launch in 2017. The show’s roughly 30 episodes have been downloaded 20 million times by fans all over the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Listeners have praised \u003cem>Ear Hustle\u003c/em> online as “eye-opening” and “incredibly humanizing.” But for Woods, one of the most meaningful reviews came from the governor’s office when they called with the good news.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The one thing that the lady said, you know, she told me, ‘We love the podcast in this office,’” Woods told The Associated Press of the commutation call from Brown’s office. “I don’t know if the governor listens, but people in his office listen. People really like what we do.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During their podcast, Woods and fellow creator and outside co-host, prison volunteer Nigel Poor, give listeners a peek into the hardships and small joys of men incarcerated at the medium-security facility.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In interviews with the hosts, inmates discuss struggles such as finding a compatible cellmate to share a 5-by-10-foot cell, share why they take care of frogs or black widow spiders as if they were pets, or describe the impact of solitary confinement or being on death row.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Woods, an affable man with a quick smile and a sharp sense of humor, helps listeners understand prison life, while Poor brings an outsider’s perspective, asking insightful questions that at times push inmates to reflect on what put them behind bars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The podcast offers listeners an intimate look into lives society doesn’t spend much time thinking about, said Woods, who spent 21 years behind bars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“People get to see the car chases. They get to see the trial. But they don’t know what happens after you get to prison,” Woods said. “We’ve been able to really humanize people, and people realize that those in prison are just people who made dumb decisions.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Brown agreed, and in his commutation letter, issued the day before Thanksgiving, the governor said Woods “has clearly shown that he is no longer the man he was when he committed this crime.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He has set a positive example for his peers and, through his podcast, has shared meaningful stories from those inside prison,” Brown wrote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The podcast project started after Poor, a San Francisco Bay Area artist who has volunteered at San Quentin since 2011, approached Woods.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2016, Poor saw Public Radio Exchange’s Radiotopia network was sponsoring a podcast talent contest, and she asked Lt. Sam Robinson, San Quentin’s spokesman, for permission to enter. Another co-creator, Antwan Williams, who is serving 15 years for armed robbery, came on board to do its sound design.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Their pitch beat more than 1,500 contestants from 53 countries, and they received the backing of a group of radio professionals, Poor said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Everyone was shocked when we won, especially the prison. Lt. Robinson told me he let us enter because he never thought we would win,” she said, laughing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Ear Hustle\u003c/em>—eavesdropping, in prison slang—has found international success, with fans sending cards and letters from as far as New Zealand, Qatar in the Middle East, and Mauritius in East Africa. The free show also can be accessed in prisons throughout California and the United Kingdom. New episodes are posted every couple of weeks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Julie Shapiro, Radiotopia executive producer, describes the podcast as a “roller coaster of emotions” that challenges what people understand about life in prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“People don’t expect to have something in common with those telling their stories from prison, but the details of their lives resonate with listeners because they hear these men encounter daily life in some of the same ways that we do,” Shapiro said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The outpouring of love and appreciation for the show has grown since Woods announced on a Nov. 24 episode that Brown commuted his sentence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The first thing Woods did after walking through the prison gates on Nov. 30 was take in the view of the San Francisco Bay and of the ocean “as far as the eye can see.” An episode featured his first moments as a free man.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since then, he’s been noticing new styles, like women everywhere in yoga pants, and people walking through the streets with their heads bowed. He quickly realized they were looking at their smartphones, which didn’t exist when he started his sentence in 1997.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Woods has also spent time people-watching at a high-end department store, visited Disneyland and recently made eggs for the first time in two decades.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The fourth season of \u003cem>Ear Hustle\u003c/em>, which will be released this summer, will feature stories of his re-entry to society and interviews with other inmates released after long sentences. He and Poor also plan to visit maximum-security prisons and tell the stories of prisoners there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s a lot of people that’s in there that should be out,” Woods said. “I created a podcast, but I’m not the exception.”\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\u003cp>Prison strips away the humanity of its residents. Prisoners lose the ability to vote and work like an average citizen, and finding help for any kind of health issues — physical or mental — can be hard. The media plays its part, too, by frequently presenting prisons as “human jungles” where the cruel and devious dominate. \u003ca href=\"https://www.rienner.com/uploads/55cb93a986f33.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Desensitized by the portrayals\u003c/a> of prison in movies and TV, we tend to focus on the abnormal, like shanks and “tossing salad,” instead of realities such as high \u003ca href=\"http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-zoukis/report-documents-us-recid_b_9542312.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">recidivism rates\u003c/a> and the \u003ca href=\"http://humantollofjail.vera.org/the-family-jail-cycle/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">impacts of incarceration on families\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003ca href=\"https://www.earhustlesq.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Ear Hustle,\u003c/a>\u003c/i> a \u003ca href=\"https://blog.prx.org/2016/11/your-podquest-winner-ear-hustle/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">new podcast from Radiotopia\u003c/a>, provides the humane look at prison life we’ve been missing. Made by two inmates and a \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfmoma.org/author/nigel-poor/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">noted photographer\u003c/a>, each episode addresses a side of prison life that doesn’t get much attention. The first episode, released Wednesday, is all about cellmates, and the importance of finding the right person to share a 4-foot-by-9-foot cell with. When space is that cramped, even brothers have problems being around each other, as demonstrated by the show.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Before the release of the first episode, we emailed questions to Nigel Poor, who produces the podcast with San Quentin inmates Antwan Williams and Earlonne Woods. A photography professor at California State University, Sacramento, Poor broke down how the podcast came together and why she began working with prisoners. \u003ci>(Interview edited for length and clarity.)\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What inspired you to start working with inmates at San Quentin?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>My background is as a visual artist who investigates how people make a mark and leave behind evidence of their existence. I am interested in why and how we become the people we are and how we find meaning and connection. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I came to prison work as a volunteer professor teaching a history of photography class for the Prison University Project. I always knew that photography and talking about the inner meaning of images was a powerful bridge to connect people. Talking about photography with the men in my classes at San Quentin allowed us to speak on so many important subjects, and it made me realize how many important stories there were behind the prison walls. I wanted to dive into that and find a way to collaborate with men inside. That is what started my interest and led to the podcast. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I started teaching in San Quentin in 2011, and in late 2012 I began working with a group of men inside the San Quentin media lab producing radio stories about life inside prison. Originally, they were meant to just air on the prison’s closed-circuit station, but KALW heard about what we were doing and started airing the shows on their program \u003cem>Crosscurrents\u003c/em>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13428656\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"Poor, Williams and Woods in a story pitch session\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-13428656\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-1180x787.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-960x640.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-240x160.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-375x250.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-520x347.jpg 520w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Poor, Williams and Woods in a story pitch session. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Radiotopia)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What limitations/barriers have you run into while trying to assist inmates in telling their stories?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Time, and the fact that prison is a very unpredictable place — there can be lockdowns that occur and in that case the men are confined to their housing units, so we are not able to work. Also, everything inside prison takes time and there are all sorts of protocols that need to be followed. The administration’s first objective is to keep the prison safe, so our needs and deadlines are not a priority. We need to work within a complex framework. If you cannot be patient, persistent and polite you will not make it far as an outsider trying to work within the prison system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>How did you meet Antwan Williams and Earlonne Woods? What made you want to work with them?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I met Antwan & Earlonne in 2012 when I started working on the \u003cem>San Quentin Prison Report\u003c/em>. While working on the radio project I became interested in doing different kinds of stories that weren’t so news oriented. Earlonne and I started talking about doing a podcast that would allow us to work more like artists and less like journalists. Music was deeply important, we wanted to do work that used sound design and music, almost as a character in the story. So we asked Antwan to join us as the sound designer. We felt like a podcast allows us more freedom to work creatively, experiment with more impressionistic storytelling.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What do you see as the goal of the podcast? What made you want to pursue that goal?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I am interested in how people find meaning and purpose. It seems to me everyone has the ability to contribute and be a productive citizen. When I first started going inside I was struck not only by the number of men inside but also by the intelligence, ingenuity and passion to learn. \u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13428653\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-800x800.jpg\" alt=\"'Ear Hustle' logo\" width=\"800\" height=\"800\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-13428653\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-800x800.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-160x160.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-768x768.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-1020x1020.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-1180x1180.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-960x960.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-240x240.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-375x375.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-520x520.jpg 520w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-32x32.jpg 32w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-50x50.jpg 50w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-64x64.jpg 64w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-96x96.jpg 96w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-128x128.jpg 128w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-150x150.jpg 150w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">‘Ear Hustle’ logo\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>I am also an advocate for prison reform. To quote Antwan “If people don’t know exactly who it is that’s incarcerated — if they don’t know people on a personal level — it’s hard to care about the laws that dictate the lives in here.” It is my great hope that our podcast will be able to put a human face on those who are behind bars and through doing that be part of the very complicated conversation around prison reform.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And finally, for me a big part of wanting to do this project is to mirror the possibility that incarcerated and non-incarcerated people can work together as equal and professional colleagues. Earlonne, Antwan and I have an excellent working relationship — we get along well, respect each other’s abilities and creative input and push each other to be better.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What should listeners expect with future episodes? What should they not expect?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Our stories concentrate on the everyday experience of people inside — we are looking at complex issues through the smaller details of life. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some stories we are working on:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>Having pets in prison\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Celebrating special occasions\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Family visits\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Race relations\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Cooking\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>The relationship between correctional officers and incarcerated men\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Ministering on death row\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>How being in prison affects memory\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>We hope that our audience is varied and includes incarcerated people and their families, the formerly incarcerated, people interested in criminal justice issues, and those interested in stories about the complexity of being human. We are not a “true crime story” podcast, but we hope that people who are interested in that genre will tune in. We can offer a more nuanced view of those in the criminal justice system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13428652\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-800x450.jpg\" alt=\"Copy of the 'Ear Hustle' business card\" width=\"800\" height=\"450\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-13428652\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-800x450.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-768x432.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-240x135.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-375x211.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-520x292.jpg 520w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card.jpg 920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Copy of the ‘Ear Hustle’ business card. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Radiotopia)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What have you learned from spending time in San Quentin?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I have spent the last 25 plus years working as a visual artist, trying to explore ideas through solo work in my studio. Coming together with the men inside San Quentin has been a powerful lesson in the importance of collaboration, negotiation and flexibility. As I said earlier, you cannot count on anything inside prison except the fact that most everything is out of one’s control; you always have to be ready to pivot. That leads to very creative problem-solving which feeds positively into everything one does in life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On a deeper more human level, I have had the pleasure of getting to know a group of people who some years ago were only caricatures formed in my mind through bad films, TV and shoddy news coverage. I have had many assumptions challenged and have had to re-examine tough issues that I might have breezed by before. I believe it is important for us to live in a place of not knowing, to understand that it isn’t always good to hold on to beliefs too tightly. To grow and to contribute means to understand that no matter how old we are, we should always be in a place of learning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-800x78.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"78\" class=\"aligncenter size-medium wp-image-12127869\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-400x39.jpg 400w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Q.Logo_.Break_-768x75.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Prison strips away the humanity of its residents. Prisoners lose the ability to vote and work like an average citizen, and finding help for any kind of health issues — physical or mental — can be hard. The media plays its part, too, by frequently presenting prisons as “human jungles” where the cruel and devious dominate. \u003ca href=\"https://www.rienner.com/uploads/55cb93a986f33.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Desensitized by the portrayals\u003c/a> of prison in movies and TV, we tend to focus on the abnormal, like shanks and “tossing salad,” instead of realities such as high \u003ca href=\"http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-zoukis/report-documents-us-recid_b_9542312.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">recidivism rates\u003c/a> and the \u003ca href=\"http://humantollofjail.vera.org/the-family-jail-cycle/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">impacts of incarceration on families\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003ca href=\"https://www.earhustlesq.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Ear Hustle,\u003c/a>\u003c/i> a \u003ca href=\"https://blog.prx.org/2016/11/your-podquest-winner-ear-hustle/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">new podcast from Radiotopia\u003c/a>, provides the humane look at prison life we’ve been missing. Made by two inmates and a \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfmoma.org/author/nigel-poor/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">noted photographer\u003c/a>, each episode addresses a side of prison life that doesn’t get much attention. The first episode, released Wednesday, is all about cellmates, and the importance of finding the right person to share a 4-foot-by-9-foot cell with. When space is that cramped, even brothers have problems being around each other, as demonstrated by the show.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Before the release of the first episode, we emailed questions to Nigel Poor, who produces the podcast with San Quentin inmates Antwan Williams and Earlonne Woods. A photography professor at California State University, Sacramento, Poor broke down how the podcast came together and why she began working with prisoners. \u003ci>(Interview edited for length and clarity.)\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What inspired you to start working with inmates at San Quentin?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>My background is as a visual artist who investigates how people make a mark and leave behind evidence of their existence. I am interested in why and how we become the people we are and how we find meaning and connection. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I came to prison work as a volunteer professor teaching a history of photography class for the Prison University Project. I always knew that photography and talking about the inner meaning of images was a powerful bridge to connect people. Talking about photography with the men in my classes at San Quentin allowed us to speak on so many important subjects, and it made me realize how many important stories there were behind the prison walls. I wanted to dive into that and find a way to collaborate with men inside. That is what started my interest and led to the podcast. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I started teaching in San Quentin in 2011, and in late 2012 I began working with a group of men inside the San Quentin media lab producing radio stories about life inside prison. Originally, they were meant to just air on the prison’s closed-circuit station, but KALW heard about what we were doing and started airing the shows on their program \u003cem>Crosscurrents\u003c/em>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13428656\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-800x533.jpg\" alt=\"Poor, Williams and Woods in a story pitch session\" width=\"800\" height=\"533\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-13428656\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-768x512.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-1180x787.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-960x640.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-240x160.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-375x250.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Story-pitch-session-520x347.jpg 520w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Poor, Williams and Woods in a story pitch session. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Radiotopia)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What limitations/barriers have you run into while trying to assist inmates in telling their stories?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Time, and the fact that prison is a very unpredictable place — there can be lockdowns that occur and in that case the men are confined to their housing units, so we are not able to work. Also, everything inside prison takes time and there are all sorts of protocols that need to be followed. The administration’s first objective is to keep the prison safe, so our needs and deadlines are not a priority. We need to work within a complex framework. If you cannot be patient, persistent and polite you will not make it far as an outsider trying to work within the prison system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>How did you meet Antwan Williams and Earlonne Woods? What made you want to work with them?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I met Antwan & Earlonne in 2012 when I started working on the \u003cem>San Quentin Prison Report\u003c/em>. While working on the radio project I became interested in doing different kinds of stories that weren’t so news oriented. Earlonne and I started talking about doing a podcast that would allow us to work more like artists and less like journalists. Music was deeply important, we wanted to do work that used sound design and music, almost as a character in the story. So we asked Antwan to join us as the sound designer. We felt like a podcast allows us more freedom to work creatively, experiment with more impressionistic storytelling.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What do you see as the goal of the podcast? What made you want to pursue that goal?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I am interested in how people find meaning and purpose. It seems to me everyone has the ability to contribute and be a productive citizen. When I first started going inside I was struck not only by the number of men inside but also by the intelligence, ingenuity and passion to learn. \u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13428653\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-800x800.jpg\" alt=\"'Ear Hustle' logo\" width=\"800\" height=\"800\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-13428653\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-800x800.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-160x160.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-768x768.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-1020x1020.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-1180x1180.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-960x960.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-240x240.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-375x375.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-520x520.jpg 520w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-32x32.jpg 32w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-50x50.jpg 50w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-64x64.jpg 64w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-96x96.jpg 96w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-128x128.jpg 128w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/EH-Logo-3000x3000-150x150.jpg 150w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">‘Ear Hustle’ logo\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>I am also an advocate for prison reform. To quote Antwan “If people don’t know exactly who it is that’s incarcerated — if they don’t know people on a personal level — it’s hard to care about the laws that dictate the lives in here.” It is my great hope that our podcast will be able to put a human face on those who are behind bars and through doing that be part of the very complicated conversation around prison reform.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And finally, for me a big part of wanting to do this project is to mirror the possibility that incarcerated and non-incarcerated people can work together as equal and professional colleagues. Earlonne, Antwan and I have an excellent working relationship — we get along well, respect each other’s abilities and creative input and push each other to be better.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What should listeners expect with future episodes? What should they not expect?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Our stories concentrate on the everyday experience of people inside — we are looking at complex issues through the smaller details of life. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some stories we are working on:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>Having pets in prison\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Celebrating special occasions\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Family visits\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Race relations\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Cooking\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>The relationship between correctional officers and incarcerated men\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>Ministering on death row\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>How being in prison affects memory\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>We hope that our audience is varied and includes incarcerated people and their families, the formerly incarcerated, people interested in criminal justice issues, and those interested in stories about the complexity of being human. We are not a “true crime story” podcast, but we hope that people who are interested in that genre will tune in. We can offer a more nuanced view of those in the criminal justice system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_13428652\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-800x450.jpg\" alt=\"Copy of the 'Ear Hustle' business card\" width=\"800\" height=\"450\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-13428652\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-800x450.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-768x432.jpg 768w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-240x135.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-375x211.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card-520x292.jpg 520w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/06/Copy-of-Ear-Hustle-biz-card.jpg 920w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Copy of the ‘Ear Hustle’ business card. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Radiotopia)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What have you learned from spending time in San Quentin?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I have spent the last 25 plus years working as a visual artist, trying to explore ideas through solo work in my studio. Coming together with the men inside San Quentin has been a powerful lesson in the importance of collaboration, negotiation and flexibility. As I said earlier, you cannot count on anything inside prison except the fact that most everything is out of one’s control; you always have to be ready to pivot. That leads to very creative problem-solving which feeds positively into everything one does in life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On a deeper more human level, I have had the pleasure of getting to know a group of people who some years ago were only caricatures formed in my mind through bad films, TV and shoddy news coverage. I have had many assumptions challenged and have had to re-examine tough issues that I might have breezed by before. I believe it is important for us to live in a place of not knowing, to understand that it isn’t always good to hold on to beliefs too tightly. To grow and to contribute means to understand that no matter how old we are, we should always be in a place of learning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"radiolab": {
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"title": "Selected Shorts",
"info": "Spellbinding short stories by established and emerging writers take on a new life when they are performed by stars of the stage and screen.",
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