The recent verdict against the pop star exposes how copyright law conflicts with musicians' real-life practices.
Katy Perry performs onstage with Zedd at Coachella Stage during the 2019 Coachella Valley Music And Arts Festival on April 14, 2019 in Indio, California. (Kevin Winter/Getty Images for Coachella)
After a seven-day trial, last week’s copyright infringement ruling against Katy Perry came down to four notes from her 2013 hit, “Dark Horse.”
On July 29, a jury ruled in favor of Christian rapper Flame, a.k.a. Marcus Gray, who says that Perry and her collaborators Juicy J, Dr. Luke, Max Martin, Cirkut and Sarah Hudson lifted the looped synth melody from Flame’s 2008 song “Joyful Noise.” Perry, the co-writers and her label, Capitol, now have to pay out $2.8 million dollars in damages. (Update, Sept. 23, 2021: Although Flame initially prevailed in court, a judge tossed the verdict against Perry in 2020.)
The decision prompted outcries from musicologists, intellectual property experts and music producers, who argue that it sets a dangerous precedent, encouraging self-censorship among composers and more lawsuits over basic similarities. Experts say that the case illuminates the discrepancies between the way copyright law is enforced and the real-life practices of pop music producers, who rely on derivative motifs and genre conventions to make hits.
Who gets to own basic songwriting elements?
The issue isn’t that “Joyful Noise” or “Dark Horse” are particularly original: both fuse generic elements of pop, trap and EDM—a style that’s come to define the sound of the 2010s. Though in different keys and tempos, both songs feature a descending minor-key progression with evenly spaced B and C notes.
This four-note progression is as basic as the major-scale power-chord riffs in punk, and Perry’s supporters argue that standard songwriting tropes like these should stay in the public domain. Indeed, well-known works like the Stranger Things theme song and LL Cool J’s “Doin’ It (Remix)” use descending minor-scale loops similar to those in “Dark Horse” and “Joyful Noise.”
In the trial’s closing arguments, Perry’s lawyer Christine Lepera said that the riffs in “Dark Horse” and “Joyful Noise” are so generic that trying to copyright them would be like “trying to own basic building blocks of music, the alphabet of music that should be available to everyone.” Some music producers now fear that the Perry lawsuit lowers the bar for what qualifies as copyright infringement, leaving their industry vulnerable to predatory lawsuits.
The ruling surprised Bay Area producer Wax Roof, whose credits include songs by Rexx Life Raj, Jay Prince and Caleborate. He says the riffs of “Dark Horse” and “Joyful Noise” are so simple, they could’ve been made by a machine. “If you plug that into any sequence generator or arpeggiator in a synth, it’s going to spit that back out at you,” says Wax Roof. “Beyond electronic musical instrument programming, those type of exercises are the foundations of classical theory training. When I heard [that melody], it sounded like a minor scale learning exercise.”
“There are so many differences in both songs that it seems like a very far-fetched cry for money,” says L.A. producer davOmakesbeats, the founder of Molly House Records whose production credits include tracks by Cakes Da Killa and bbymutha.
The Seshen’s Akiyoshi Ehara, who produces for rapper Mahawam and pop duo vverewolf, was similarly taken aback. “When I heard the two songs, there were similarities, but they were on such a basic level that I don’t think it should be argued that it was lifted,” he says. “In the realm of pop music and diatonic chord progressions, there’s only so much you can do without sounding like existing songs anyways.”
By their definition, popular musical genres are derivative, with composers building on their predecessors’ legacies as well as current trends. In recording sessions, it’s commonplace for major label artists to play other songs as references with the goal of recreating a certain feel, tone or frequency.
“When people ask me for a certain vibe, I try to create my version of that,” says Pinole producer P-Lo, who has made beats for chart-topping rappers Yo Gotti and Wiz Khalifa. “There are only so many notes or chord progressions or bass lines that can be played.”
“As a creative, you’re always straddling that line between the familiar and the unknown, and that’s where you find new dots to connect and new frontiers of creativity,” says Wax Roof. “If we’re not allowed to access the known, and we’re only allowed to blindly explore the unknown, there’s going to be a huge consequence on quality as a result of that.”
The disconnect between music production and copyright law
While pop and rap’s detractors may be tempted to argue that producers should simply be more original, that line of reasoning runs counter to the entire history of music’s evolution—not just those genres. “You could go back to the days of Palestrina, certainly Bach and Handel, to the baroque period, the classical period with Mozart and Beethoven and, even more recently, with Rachmaninoff,” explains intellectual property lawyer J. Michael Keyes of the firm Dorsey & Whitney LLP. “They all copied from preexisting works and created fantastic works as a result. Why don’t we embrace that reality?”
Keyes points to flaws in the United States’ copyright system, especially when it comes to music. Just as recipes or short phrases aren’t protected by copyright, basic musical conventions also belong in the public domain, he argues. “When it comes to small little musical ideas, standard stock little licks or hooks, those sorts of things should not be subject to copyright,” Keyes says.
Professor Ben Depoorter, a copyright law expert at UC Hastings, points to another flaw in the system: he says that courtroom procedures in these types of cases often bias the jury against defendants. The jury first hears extensive testimony from each side’s musical experts, who argue their case using detailed technical analysis.
“By the time you get to the question the jury really has to answer, which is, ‘Is this too much copying? Is it improper? Should there be payment?’ The defendant is already tainted by this question of copying,” says Depoorter.
“It should really be the reverse,” he continues. “First we should listen to song and ask, ‘Is there something of value being taken?’ And only if we say yes should we do the whole analysis.”
Depoorter highlights another problem with copyright litigation in the streaming era: whereas in previous decades, it was hard to prove that a pop star heard a lesser-known artist’s album, it’s now much easier for plaintiffs to claim defendants heard their work if it has enough streams—something Gray’s lawyers argued in the Perry case. “Since the 2000s, since it’s cheaper to make music on your own computer and, more importantly, cheap to put it online, there is more music and more potential for litigation,” says Depoorter.
Still, Depoorter says that he hasn’t observed any direct evidence of more lawsuits since the Perry case and another verdict that surprised onlookers: the 2015 ruling against Pharrell Williams and Robin Thicke, who were found to have copied Marvin Gaye’s “Got To Give it Up” with their “Blurred Lines.” Similarly, that case hinged on Williams replicating the song’s overall feel rather than lifting a melody note-for-note.
“I think we’ve seen more high-profile litigation lately, but when I look at the amount of activity in the courts, I think this has been a trend that started after the Michael Bolton decision,” he explains, referencing the 2001 case that penalized Bolton for lifting an Isley Brothers hit.
Nonetheless, the Perry verdict may cause record labels to move more cautiously. “It is dangerous that someone would own a certain progression of chords when it’s common,” says Depoorter. “Taking a claim on that does have a chilling effect on creativity, that’s for sure. You can go too far with that.”
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"title": "Copyrighting the 'Building Blocks' of Music? Why the Katy Perry Case Alarms Producers",
"headTitle": "Copyrighting the ‘Building Blocks’ of Music? Why the Katy Perry Case Alarms Producers | KQED",
"content": "\u003cp>After a seven-day trial, last week’s copyright infringement ruling against Katy Perry came down to four notes from her 2013 hit, “Dark Horse.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On July 29, a \u003ca href=\"https://www.apnews.com/0adf8ac775bd4a3b93ded997e0d58a1b\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">jury ruled\u003c/a> in favor of Christian rapper Flame, a.k.a. Marcus Gray, who says that Perry and her collaborators Juicy J, Dr. Luke, Max Martin, Cirkut and Sarah Hudson lifted the looped synth melody from Flame’s 2008 song “Joyful Noise.” Perry, the co-writers and her label, Capitol, now have to pay out $2.8 million dollars in damages. \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> (\u003cem>\u003cstrong>Update, Sept. 23, 2021:\u003c/strong>\u003c/em> Although Flame initially prevailed in court, \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/arts/music/katy-perry-dark-horse.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">a judge tossed the verdict against Perry in 2020\u003c/a>.)\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The decision prompted outcries from \u003ca href=\"http://www.musicologize.com/occams-razor-says-this-is-why-dark-horse-is-not-joyous-noise/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">musicologists\u003c/a>, intellectual property experts and music producers, who argue that it sets a dangerous precedent, encouraging self-censorship among composers and more lawsuits over basic similarities. Experts say that the case illuminates the discrepancies between the way copyright law is enforced and the real-life practices of pop music producers, who rely on derivative motifs and genre conventions to make hits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-kcPyz78fk\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Who gets to own basic songwriting elements?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The issue isn’t that “Joyful Noise” or “Dark Horse” are particularly original: both fuse generic elements of pop, trap and EDM—a style that’s come to define the sound of the 2010s. Though in different keys and tempos, both songs feature a \u003ca href=\"https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/7/30/20747100/katy-perry-dark-horse-joyful-noise-copyright-2-8-million\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">descending minor-key progression\u003c/a> with evenly spaced B and C notes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This four-note progression is as basic as the major-scale power-chord riffs in punk, and Perry’s supporters argue that standard songwriting tropes like these should stay in the public domain. Indeed, well-known works like the \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RcPZdihrp4\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">\u003cem>Stranger Things\u003c/em> theme\u003c/a> song and LL Cool J’s “\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lYhjVI4kLQ\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Doin’ It (Remix)\u003c/a>” use descending minor-scale loops similar to those in “Dark Horse” and “Joyful Noise.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the trial’s closing arguments, Perry’s lawyer Christine Lepera said that the riffs in “Dark Horse” and “Joyful Noise” are so generic that trying to copyright them would be like “trying to own basic building blocks of music, the alphabet of music that should be available to everyone.” Some music producers now fear that the Perry lawsuit lowers the bar for what qualifies as copyright infringement, leaving their industry vulnerable to predatory lawsuits.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote size='large' align='right' citation='J. Michael Keyes, intellectual property lawyer']“You could go back to the days of Palestrina, certainly Bach and Handel. … They all copied from preexisting works and created fantastic works as a result. Why don’t we embrace that reality?”[/pullquote]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The ruling surprised Bay Area producer \u003ca href=\"https://soundcloud.com/wax-roof\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Wax Roof\u003c/a>, whose credits include songs by Rexx Life Raj, Jay Prince and Caleborate. He says the riffs of “Dark Horse” and “Joyful Noise” are so simple, they could’ve been made by a machine. “If you plug that into any sequence generator or arpeggiator in a synth, it’s going to spit that back out at you,” says Wax Roof. “Beyond electronic musical instrument programming, those type of exercises are the foundations of classical theory training. When I heard [that melody], it sounded like a minor scale learning exercise.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There are so many differences in both songs that it seems like a very far-fetched cry for money,” says L.A. producer \u003ca href=\"https://soundcloud.com/davomakesbeats\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">davOmakesbeats\u003c/a>, the founder of Molly House Records whose production credits include tracks by Cakes Da Killa and bbymutha.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Seshen’s \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://soundcloud.com/aki-ehara\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Akiyoshi Ehara\u003c/a>, who produces for rapper Mahawam and pop duo vverewolf, was similarly taken aback. \u003c/span>“\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I heard the two songs, there were similarities, but they were on such a basic level that I don’t think it should be argued that it was lifted,” he says. “In the realm of pop music and diatonic chord progressions, there’s only so much you can do without sounding like existing songs anyways.” [aside postid='arts_13849005']\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By their definition, popular musical genres are derivative, with composers building on their predecessors’ legacies as well as current trends. In recording sessions, it’s commonplace for major label artists to play other songs as references with the goal of recreating a certain feel, tone or frequency.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“When people ask me for a certain vibe, I try to create my version of that,” says Pinole producer \u003ca href=\"https://soundcloud.com/heartbreakplo\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">P-Lo\u003c/a>, who has made beats for chart-topping rappers Yo Gotti and Wiz Khalifa. “\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There are only so many notes or chord progressions or bass lines that can be played.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As a creative, you’re always straddling that line between the familiar and the unknown, and that’s where you find new dots to connect and new frontiers of creativity,” says Wax Roof. “If we’re not allowed to access the known, and we’re only allowed to blindly explore the unknown, there’s going to be a huge consequence on quality as a result of that.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>The disconnect between music production and copyright law\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>While pop and rap’s detractors may be tempted to argue that producers should simply be more original, that line of reasoning runs counter to the entire history of music’s evolution—not just those genres. \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“You could go back to the days of Palestrina, certainly Bach and Handel, to the baroque period, the classical period with Mozart and Beethoven and, even more recently, with Rachmaninoff,” explains intellectual property lawyer J. Michael Keyes of the firm Dorsey & Whitney LLP. “They all copied from preexisting works and created fantastic works as a result. Why don’t we embrace that reality?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Keyes points to flaws in the United States’ copyright system, especially when it comes to music. Just as recipes or short phrases aren’t protected by copyright, basic musical conventions also belong in the public domain, he argues. “When it comes to small little musical ideas, standard stock little licks or hooks, those sorts of things should not be subject to copyright,” Keyes says. [aside postid='arts_13903394, arts_13903392,arts_13903568']\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Professor Ben Depoorter, a copyright law expert at UC Hastings, points to another flaw in the system: he says that courtroom procedures in these types of cases often bias the jury against defendants. The jury first hears extensive testimony from each side’s musical experts, who argue their case using detailed technical analysis. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“By the time you get to the question the jury really has to answer, which is, ‘Is this too much copying? Is it improper? Should there be payment?’ The defendant is already tainted by this question of copying,” says Depoorter. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[pullquote size='large' citation='Wax Roof, music producer']“As a creative, you’re always straddling that line between the familiar and the unknown. … If we’re not allowed to access the known, and we’re only allowed to blindly explore the unknown, there’s going to be a huge consequence on quality as a result of that.”[/pullquote]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“It should really be the reverse,” he continues. “First we should listen to song and ask, ‘Is there something of value being taken?’ And only if we say yes should we do the whole analysis.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Depoorter highlights another problem with copyright litigation in the streaming era: whereas in previous decades, it was hard to prove that a pop star heard a lesser-known artist’s album, it’s now much easier for plaintiffs to claim defendants heard their work if it has enough streams—something Gray’s lawyers argued in the Perry case. “Since the 2000s, since it’s cheaper to make music on your own computer and, more importantly, cheap to put it online, there is more music and more potential for litigation,” says Depoorter. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Still, Depoorter says that he hasn’t observed any direct evidence of more lawsuits since the Perry case and another verdict that surprised onlookers: the 2015 ruling against Pharrell Williams and Robin Thicke, who were found to have copied Marvin Gaye’s “Got To Give it Up” with their “Blurred Lines.” Similarly, that case hinged on Williams replicating the song’s overall feel rather than lifting a melody note-for-note.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think we’ve seen more high-profile litigation lately, but when I look at the amount of activity in the courts, I think this has been a trend that started after the Michael Bolton decision,” he explains, referencing the 2001 case that penalized Bolton for lifting an Isley Brothers hit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nonetheless, the Perry verdict may cause record labels to move more cautiously. “It is dangerous that someone would own a certain progression of chords when it’s common,” says Depoorter. “Taking a claim on that does have a chilling effect on creativity, that’s for sure. You can go too far with that.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>After a seven-day trial, last week’s copyright infringement ruling against Katy Perry came down to four notes from her 2013 hit, “Dark Horse.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On July 29, a \u003ca href=\"https://www.apnews.com/0adf8ac775bd4a3b93ded997e0d58a1b\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">jury ruled\u003c/a> in favor of Christian rapper Flame, a.k.a. Marcus Gray, who says that Perry and her collaborators Juicy J, Dr. Luke, Max Martin, Cirkut and Sarah Hudson lifted the looped synth melody from Flame’s 2008 song “Joyful Noise.” Perry, the co-writers and her label, Capitol, now have to pay out $2.8 million dollars in damages. \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> (\u003cem>\u003cstrong>Update, Sept. 23, 2021:\u003c/strong>\u003c/em> Although Flame initially prevailed in court, \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/arts/music/katy-perry-dark-horse.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">a judge tossed the verdict against Perry in 2020\u003c/a>.)\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The decision prompted outcries from \u003ca href=\"http://www.musicologize.com/occams-razor-says-this-is-why-dark-horse-is-not-joyous-noise/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">musicologists\u003c/a>, intellectual property experts and music producers, who argue that it sets a dangerous precedent, encouraging self-censorship among composers and more lawsuits over basic similarities. Experts say that the case illuminates the discrepancies between the way copyright law is enforced and the real-life practices of pop music producers, who rely on derivative motifs and genre conventions to make hits.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/x-kcPyz78fk'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/x-kcPyz78fk'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003ch2>Who gets to own basic songwriting elements?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The issue isn’t that “Joyful Noise” or “Dark Horse” are particularly original: both fuse generic elements of pop, trap and EDM—a style that’s come to define the sound of the 2010s. Though in different keys and tempos, both songs feature a \u003ca href=\"https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/7/30/20747100/katy-perry-dark-horse-joyful-noise-copyright-2-8-million\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">descending minor-key progression\u003c/a> with evenly spaced B and C notes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This four-note progression is as basic as the major-scale power-chord riffs in punk, and Perry’s supporters argue that standard songwriting tropes like these should stay in the public domain. Indeed, well-known works like the \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RcPZdihrp4\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">\u003cem>Stranger Things\u003c/em> theme\u003c/a> song and LL Cool J’s “\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lYhjVI4kLQ\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Doin’ It (Remix)\u003c/a>” use descending minor-scale loops similar to those in “Dark Horse” and “Joyful Noise.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In the trial’s closing arguments, Perry’s lawyer Christine Lepera said that the riffs in “Dark Horse” and “Joyful Noise” are so generic that trying to copyright them would be like “trying to own basic building blocks of music, the alphabet of music that should be available to everyone.” Some music producers now fear that the Perry lawsuit lowers the bar for what qualifies as copyright infringement, leaving their industry vulnerable to predatory lawsuits.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The ruling surprised Bay Area producer \u003ca href=\"https://soundcloud.com/wax-roof\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Wax Roof\u003c/a>, whose credits include songs by Rexx Life Raj, Jay Prince and Caleborate. He says the riffs of “Dark Horse” and “Joyful Noise” are so simple, they could’ve been made by a machine. “If you plug that into any sequence generator or arpeggiator in a synth, it’s going to spit that back out at you,” says Wax Roof. “Beyond electronic musical instrument programming, those type of exercises are the foundations of classical theory training. When I heard [that melody], it sounded like a minor scale learning exercise.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There are so many differences in both songs that it seems like a very far-fetched cry for money,” says L.A. producer \u003ca href=\"https://soundcloud.com/davomakesbeats\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">davOmakesbeats\u003c/a>, the founder of Molly House Records whose production credits include tracks by Cakes Da Killa and bbymutha.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Seshen’s \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://soundcloud.com/aki-ehara\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Akiyoshi Ehara\u003c/a>, who produces for rapper Mahawam and pop duo vverewolf, was similarly taken aback. \u003c/span>“\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I heard the two songs, there were similarities, but they were on such a basic level that I don’t think it should be argued that it was lifted,” he says. “In the realm of pop music and diatonic chord progressions, there’s only so much you can do without sounding like existing songs anyways.” \u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By their definition, popular musical genres are derivative, with composers building on their predecessors’ legacies as well as current trends. In recording sessions, it’s commonplace for major label artists to play other songs as references with the goal of recreating a certain feel, tone or frequency.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“When people ask me for a certain vibe, I try to create my version of that,” says Pinole producer \u003ca href=\"https://soundcloud.com/heartbreakplo\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">P-Lo\u003c/a>, who has made beats for chart-topping rappers Yo Gotti and Wiz Khalifa. “\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There are only so many notes or chord progressions or bass lines that can be played.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As a creative, you’re always straddling that line between the familiar and the unknown, and that’s where you find new dots to connect and new frontiers of creativity,” says Wax Roof. “If we’re not allowed to access the known, and we’re only allowed to blindly explore the unknown, there’s going to be a huge consequence on quality as a result of that.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>The disconnect between music production and copyright law\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>While pop and rap’s detractors may be tempted to argue that producers should simply be more original, that line of reasoning runs counter to the entire history of music’s evolution—not just those genres. \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“You could go back to the days of Palestrina, certainly Bach and Handel, to the baroque period, the classical period with Mozart and Beethoven and, even more recently, with Rachmaninoff,” explains intellectual property lawyer J. Michael Keyes of the firm Dorsey & Whitney LLP. “They all copied from preexisting works and created fantastic works as a result. Why don’t we embrace that reality?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Keyes points to flaws in the United States’ copyright system, especially when it comes to music. Just as recipes or short phrases aren’t protected by copyright, basic musical conventions also belong in the public domain, he argues. “When it comes to small little musical ideas, standard stock little licks or hooks, those sorts of things should not be subject to copyright,” Keyes says. \u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“It should really be the reverse,” he continues. “First we should listen to song and ask, ‘Is there something of value being taken?’ And only if we say yes should we do the whole analysis.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Depoorter highlights another problem with copyright litigation in the streaming era: whereas in previous decades, it was hard to prove that a pop star heard a lesser-known artist’s album, it’s now much easier for plaintiffs to claim defendants heard their work if it has enough streams—something Gray’s lawyers argued in the Perry case. “Since the 2000s, since it’s cheaper to make music on your own computer and, more importantly, cheap to put it online, there is more music and more potential for litigation,” says Depoorter. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Still, Depoorter says that he hasn’t observed any direct evidence of more lawsuits since the Perry case and another verdict that surprised onlookers: the 2015 ruling against Pharrell Williams and Robin Thicke, who were found to have copied Marvin Gaye’s “Got To Give it Up” with their “Blurred Lines.” Similarly, that case hinged on Williams replicating the song’s overall feel rather than lifting a melody note-for-note.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think we’ve seen more high-profile litigation lately, but when I look at the amount of activity in the courts, I think this has been a trend that started after the Michael Bolton decision,” he explains, referencing the 2001 case that penalized Bolton for lifting an Isley Brothers hit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nonetheless, the Perry verdict may cause record labels to move more cautiously. “It is dangerous that someone would own a certain progression of chords when it’s common,” says Depoorter. “Taking a claim on that does have a chilling effect on creativity, that’s for sure. You can go too far with that.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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}
},
"baycurious": {
"id": "baycurious",
"title": "Bay Curious",
"tagline": "Exploring the Bay Area, one question at a time",
"info": "KQED’s new podcast, Bay Curious, gets to the bottom of the mysteries — both profound and peculiar — that give the Bay Area its unique identity. And we’ll do it with your help! You ask the questions. You decide what Bay Curious investigates. And you join us on the journey to find the answers.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Bay-Curious-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/news/series/baycurious",
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"order": 3
},
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"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious",
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}
},
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"id": "bbc-world-service",
"title": "BBC World Service",
"info": "The day's top stories from BBC News compiled twice daily in the week, once at weekends.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 9pm-10pm, TUE-FRI 1am-2am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/BBC-World-Service-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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"meta": {
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"source": "BBC World Service"
},
"link": "/radio/program/bbc-world-service",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/global-news-podcast/id135067274?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/BBC-World-Service-p455581/",
"rss": "https://podcasts.files.bbci.co.uk/p02nq0gn.rss"
}
},
"californiareport": {
"id": "californiareport",
"title": "The California Report",
"tagline": "California, day by day",
"info": "KQED’s statewide radio news program providing daily coverage of issues, trends and public policy decisions.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-California-Report-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/californiareport",
"meta": {
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 8
},
"link": "/californiareport",
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"amazon": "https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/26099305-72af-4542-9dde-ac1807fe36d5/kqed-s-the-california-report",
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}
},
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"id": "californiareportmagazine",
"title": "The California Report Magazine",
"tagline": "Your state, your stories",
"info": "Every week, The California Report Magazine takes you on a road trip for the ears: to visit the places and meet the people who make California unique. The in-depth storytelling podcast from the California Report.",
"airtime": "FRI 4:30pm-5pm, 6:30pm-7pm, 11pm-11:30pm",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/californiareportmagazine",
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"order": 10
},
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM3NjkwNjk1OTAz",
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},
"city-arts": {
"id": "city-arts",
"title": "City Arts & Lectures",
"info": "A one-hour radio program to hear celebrated writers, artists and thinkers address contemporary ideas and values, often discussing the creative process. Please note: tapes or transcripts are not available",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/05/cityartsandlecture-300x300.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.cityarts.net/",
"airtime": "SUN 1pm-2pm, TUE 10pm, WED 1am",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "City Arts & Lectures"
},
"link": "https://www.cityarts.net",
"subscribe": {
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/City-Arts-and-Lectures-p692/",
"rss": "https://www.cityarts.net/feed/"
}
},
"closealltabs": {
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/closealltabs",
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 1
},
"link": "/podcasts/closealltabs",
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"title": "Code Switch / Life Kit",
"info": "\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em>, which listeners will hear in the first part of the hour, has fearless and much-needed conversations about race. Hosted by journalists of color, the show tackles the subject of race head-on, exploring how it impacts every part of society — from politics and pop culture to history, sports and more.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em>, which will be in the second part of the hour, guides you through spaces and feelings no one prepares you for — from finances to mental health, from workplace microaggressions to imposter syndrome, from relationships to parenting. The show features experts with real world experience and shares their knowledge. Because everyone needs a little help being human.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510312/codeswitch\">\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/lifekit\">\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />",
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"meta": {
"site": "radio",
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},
"link": "/radio/program/code-switch-life-kit",
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"id": "commonwealth-club",
"title": "Commonwealth Club of California Podcast",
"info": "The Commonwealth Club of California is the nation's oldest and largest public affairs forum. As a non-partisan forum, The Club brings to the public airwaves diverse viewpoints on important topics. The Club's weekly radio broadcast - the oldest in the U.S., dating back to 1924 - is carried across the nation on public radio stations and is now podcasting. Our website archive features audio of our recent programs, as well as selected speeches from our long and distinguished history. This podcast feed is usually updated twice a week and is always un-edited.",
"airtime": "THU 10pm, FRI 1am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Commonwealth-Club-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "Commonwealth Club of California"
},
"link": "/radio/program/commonwealth-club",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5jb21tb253ZWFsdGhjbHViLm9yZy9hdWRpby9wb2RjYXN0L3dlZWtseS54bWw",
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}
},
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"id": "forum",
"title": "Forum",
"tagline": "The conversation starts here",
"info": "KQED’s live call-in program discussing local, state, national and international issues, as well as in-depth interviews.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 9am-11am, 10pm-11pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Forum-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED Forum with Mina Kim and Alexis Madrigal",
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"meta": {
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 9
},
"link": "/forum",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM5NTU3MzgxNjMz",
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"freakonomics-radio": {
"id": "freakonomics-radio",
"title": "Freakonomics Radio",
"info": "Freakonomics Radio is a one-hour award-winning podcast and public-radio project hosted by Stephen Dubner, with co-author Steve Levitt as a regular guest. It is produced in partnership with WNYC.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/05/freakonomicsRadio.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://freakonomics.com/",
"airtime": "SUN 1am-2am, SAT 3pm-4pm",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "WNYC"
},
"link": "/radio/program/freakonomics-radio",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/freakonomics-radio/id354668519",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/WNYC-Podcasts/Freakonomics-Radio-p272293/",
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},
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"id": "fresh-air",
"title": "Fresh Air",
"info": "Hosted by Terry Gross, \u003cem>Fresh Air from WHYY\u003c/em> is the Peabody Award-winning weekday magazine of contemporary arts and issues. One of public radio's most popular programs, Fresh Air features intimate conversations with today's biggest luminaries.",
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"link": "/radio/program/fresh-air",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=214089682&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/381444908/podcast.xml"
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"here-and-now": {
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"info": "A live production of NPR and WBUR Boston, in collaboration with stations across the country, Here & Now reflects the fluid world of news as it's happening in the middle of the day, with timely, in-depth news, interviews and conversation. Hosted by Robin Young, Jeremy Hobson and Tonya Mosley.",
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510051/podcast.xml"
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},
"hidden-brain": {
"id": "hidden-brain",
"title": "Hidden Brain",
"info": "Shankar Vedantam uses science and storytelling to reveal the unconscious patterns that drive human behavior, shape our choices and direct our relationships.",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/series/423302056/hidden-brain",
"airtime": "SUN 7pm-8pm",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "NPR"
},
"link": "/radio/program/hidden-brain",
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},
"how-i-built-this": {
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"title": "How I Built This with Guy Raz",
"info": "Guy Raz dives into the stories behind some of the world's best known companies. How I Built This weaves a narrative journey about innovators, entrepreneurs and idealists—and the movements they built.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2018/05/howIBuiltThis.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510313/how-i-built-this",
"airtime": "SUN 7:30pm-8pm",
"meta": {
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"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/how-i-built-this",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-built-this-with-guy-raz/id1150510297?mt=2",
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},
"hyphenacion": {
"id": "hyphenacion",
"title": "Hyphenación",
"tagline": "Where conversation and cultura meet",
"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/Hyphenacion_FinalAssets_PodcastTile.png",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/hyphenacion",
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"order": 15
},
"link": "/podcasts/hyphenacion",
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},
"jerrybrown": {
"id": "jerrybrown",
"title": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown",
"tagline": "Lessons from a lifetime in politics",
"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-Political-Mind-of-Jerry-Brown-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/jerrybrown",
"meta": {
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 18
},
"link": "/podcasts/jerrybrown",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1492194549",
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}
},
"latino-usa": {
"id": "latino-usa",
"title": "Latino USA",
"airtime": "MON 1am-2am, SUN 6pm-7pm",
"info": "Latino USA, the radio journal of news and culture, is the only national, English-language radio program produced from a Latino perspective.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/latinoUsa.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://latinousa.org/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "npr"
},
"link": "/radio/program/latino-usa",
"subscribe": {
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=79681317&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510016/podcast.xml"
}
},
"marketplace": {
"id": "marketplace",
"title": "Marketplace",
"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 4pm-4:30pm, MON-WED 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Marketplace-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.marketplace.org/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "American Public Media"
},
"link": "/radio/program/marketplace",
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"rss": "https://feeds.publicradio.org/public_feeds/marketplace-pm/rss/rss"
}
},
"masters-of-scale": {
"id": "masters-of-scale",
"title": "Masters of Scale",
"info": "Masters of Scale is an original podcast in which LinkedIn co-founder and Greylock Partner Reid Hoffman sets out to describe and prove theories that explain how great entrepreneurs take their companies from zero to a gazillion in ingenious fashion.",
"airtime": "Every other Wednesday June 12 through October 16 at 8pm (repeats Thursdays at 2am)",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Masters-of-Scale-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://mastersofscale.com/",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "WaitWhat"
},
"link": "/radio/program/masters-of-scale",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "http://mastersofscale.app.link/",
"rss": "https://rss.art19.com/masters-of-scale"
}
},
"mindshift": {
"id": "mindshift",
"title": "MindShift",
"tagline": "A podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids",
"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED MindShift: How We Will Learn",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/mindshift/",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 12
},
"link": "/podcasts/mindshift",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mindshift-podcast/id1078765985",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5",
"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/464615685/mind-shift-podcast",
"stitcher": "https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/stories-teachers-share",
"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/0MxSpNYZKNprFLCl7eEtyx"
}
},
"morning-edition": {
"id": "morning-edition",
"title": "Morning Edition",
"info": "\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. Hosts Steve Inskeep, David Greene and Rachel Martin bring you the latest breaking news and features to prepare you for the day.",
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