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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Community fridges have been popping up all over the Bay since the pandemic began as a form of mutual aid, which has deep roots here. There’s a long history of this kind of community care, especially around food insecurity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Private companies have also used similar language to describe some of their own efforts. But \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/bayareabites/139183/when-mutual-aid-gets-corporatized\">KQED food writer and columnist Ruth Gebreyesus writes\u003c/a> that the values of mutual aid are distinct — and worth protecting.\u003cbr>\n\u003cb data-stringify-type=\"bold\">\u003cbr>\nGuest\u003c/b>: \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/root_g?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor\">Ruth Gebreyesus,\u003c/a> food reporter and columnist for KQED Arts and Culture\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cem>The Bay Curious team is breaking down all 12 of the statewide propositions on the ballot this November. If you missed our coverage of Propositions 14-23, check out the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Prop Fest\u003c/a> homepage or \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/baycurious\">subscribe to the Bay Curious podcast\u003c/a>.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC9691888386\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:00:00] Good morning, friends. Olivia Allen-Price here on our second to last day of Bay Curious Prop Fest, our twelve part series explaining the propositions on California’s statewide ballot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:00:12] Today, we take on \u003ca href=\"https://voterguide.sos.ca.gov/propositions/24/\">Proposition 24\u003c/a>. It’s a measure about consumer data privacy. The full text of this prop is more than 50 pages and it has lots of provisions. And quite frankly, they’re not all easy to understand. We’ll go through some of them today on the show. It’s Proposition 24, the consumer privacy prop.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nOlivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:36] Proposition 24 would change consumer privacy law in California in a lot of different ways. But before we can explain what it would do, it’s important to understand where we’ve been.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:00:48] Well, Olivia, it all starts at a dinner party.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:00:51] This is \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/rachael-myrow\">Rachael Myrow\u003c/a>, senior editor of KQED’s Silicon Valley Desk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriouspodcastinfo]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:00:55] This Bay Area real estate developer named \u003ca href=\"https://www.caprivacy.org/about-us/\">Alastair Mactaggart\u003c/a> gets to talking with a Google engineer at this party.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alastair Mactaggart\u003c/strong> [00:01:02] There was something in the press that day about privacy, and I asked him, hey, what’s – is there a big deal about this? And I expect him to say, nothing to see here. And he said, you’d be terrified if you knew how much we knew about everybody.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:01:14] So he goes home and he starts learning about this global industry where people are buying and selling our data, essentially.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alastair Mactaggart \u003c/strong>[00:01:20] We’re being tracked 24/7, 365. All of your searches, all of your location, who you’re standing next to, what apps you have installed, what you’re interested in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:01:32] Alastair Mactaggart decides to write a ballot proposition with a bunch of consumer privacy protections that he wants to see put in place. Lawmakers and the tech industry take notice, and they were worried that if a proposition like that went before voters and passed, it would be super difficult to amend.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:01:49] They got him to wave it off with the promise that there would be a bill that would be passed in the state legislature and that during the legislative year that followed, there would be lots of little amendments that could be discussed, debated, passed or killed. And that’s exactly what happened.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:02:08] The \u003ca href=\"https://oag.ca.gov/privacy/ccpa\">California Consumer Privacy Act\u003c/a> passes in 2018, then goes into effect in January of this year. You know, those dialog boxes that pop up when you visit websites all the time now? The ones with the big “accept” button. Yeah, that’s the California Consumer Privacy Act [CCPA] in action.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:02:28] Basically, you can think about it in five easy pieces, right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:02:35] Number one, you have the right to go to any company that’s collecting information about you and ask, what are you collecting – specifically? Like, send me the details.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:02:46] Number two, you have the right to tell that company to delete your information.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:02:52] Three, you have the right to demand that the company not sell the information on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow \u003c/strong>[00:02:57] Number four, you, the consumer, can sue only if a company’s negligence leads to a hack that exposes your data. Otherwise, only the state attorney general’s office can sue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:03:10] Finally, number five, companies can’t create this two tier system where you get a lesser package of goods and services if you try to exercise your rights to privacy under the CCPA.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:03:27] So, that’s the California Consumer Privacy Act, which is in effect already. But Mactaggart and a lot of others aren’t quite satisfied.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:03:35] You know, a lot of people would describe it as a hot mess. And, you know, quite possibly Mactaggart as well, because he’s back with this second proposition. It’s more of what he wants to see and less of what is kind of collectively hashed out by all of these different power players in Sacramento.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:03:55] OK. So that gets us to today, we’re looking at Prop 24 on our ballot, a new collection of privacy measures. Rachel, what are we voting on here?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow \u003c/strong>[00:04:03] So many things, Olivia. Too many things, in fact, to explain without going into some depth. I’m going to talk about four of the biggies, although actually, why don’t we have Mactaggart talk about, number one:.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alastair Mactaggart\u003c/strong> [00:04:13] Recreate a new category of sensitive personal information. That’s your race, your ethnicity, your health information, your sexual orientation. And you get to tell a business, look, that stuff is so sensitive, you shouldn’t even be able to use it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:04:29] Proposition 24 goes into further detail about what it defines as “sensitive data”. Number two, tougher fines for companies that violate children’s privacy rights. Number three, no holding onto data longer than necessary. Unclear exactly what that means, but that’s a concept in there. Number four, news state agency. This Olivia, I think, is the most intriguing aspect of Proposition 24, the creation of a new regulatory agency funded at a bare minimum of ten million dollars a year to work in tandem with the state attorney general’s office.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nAlastair Mactaggart\u003c/strong> [00:05:07] We should have more privacy professionals in this agency than right now exist in the FTC [Federal Trade Commission] for the entire country. The FTC only has about 40 lawyers for the entire country for privacy. And we’ll have about the same number here in California once it gets funded up and operating if the initiative passes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:05:21] Rachel, I thought Thomas was already the case under current consumer privacy law. Like that I could tell companies not to use my sensitive info.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:05:31] Right. That’s one of the confusing things about Proposition 24, that it promises to enshrine some things that are already law. Of course, there’s very little enforcement, and companies, big and small sidestep the laws a lot. So, it’s possible a new purpose built regulatory agency in Sacramento might enforce better behavior.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:05:51] Mactaggart says consumer privacy protections would be more secure if this prop passes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alastair Mactaggart\u003c/strong> [00:05:57] CCPA right now is “just a law”. It can get amended by the legislature tomorrow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:06:02] Voter passed initiatives are harder to amend. But Mactaggart says this one does give legislators a little more flexibility.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alastair Mactaggart\u003c/strong> [00:06:09] We do give the legislature the power to invent it, even with just a simple majority vote. But here’s the sort of protection: It has to be amended in furtherance of the purpose and intent of the act. And we have a section which is kinda of like a bill of rights for privacy, it just says, hey look, you can amend it, just don’t hurt consumers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:06:29] But this one isn’t all about increasing privacy for consumers. There are some provisions that seem like they might have the opposite effect.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:06:37] Frankly, Olivia, here’s where things get confusing. I mean, on the one hand, Prop 24 directs companies to collect only what they need to provide you with their service. But it would be easier for companies to refuse to delete your information when you asked them to. And easier for companies to squirrel out of making sure that other companies get some of that data are also complying with your request not to use it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:07:02] Prop 24 would also reduce the number of companies that have to comply with these privacy laws. Companies that buy or sell data from less than 100,000 households a year would be exempt.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:07:18] Where do the companies who this prop could impact come down on this one?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:07:22] That’s an excellent question. And I really want to take this moment to make the point that we’re not just talking about tech companies like Facebook and Google collecting and selling your data. We’ve reached the point now in the global economy where your insurance company is in this game, your broadband provider, your retail outlets, and a host of companies you’ve never even heard of, located all over the world. And while we saw a lot of lobbyists paid for by these companies, saying a lot of things very loudly when the rollout of the current consumer privacy law was in play, most of them seemed to be weirdly silent right now. There are different ideas about why that is, but the one I’ve heard most often is that the industry knows data collection is not popular, knows that consumer privacy is popular, so, they’re just staying in the shadows to avoid blowback at the ballot box.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nOlivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:08:17] All right. Well, let’s get into what makes this prop sort of especially fascinating to me. Who is for and against it? I understand that it’s kind of all over the place.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:08:26] Yes. People and groups who are usually on the same page are split on this one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:08:32] OK, let’s start with who’s for it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:08:33] \u003ca href=\"https://consumerwatchdog.org/\">Consumer WatchDog\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.commonsensemedia.org/\">Common Sense\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.latimes.com/people/the-times-editorial-board\">The L.A. Times Editorial Board\u003c/a>, and perhaps the biggest headliner of all, \u003ca href=\"https://www.yang2020.com/\">Andrew Yang\u003c/a>, former presidential candidate who was one of the foremost techies on the early campaign trail. I would say, to put it succinctly, these folks like the basic premise of expanding consumer rights, and they trust Alastair Mactaggart, that his heart is in the right place, even if the language of the proposition is convoluted and unclear. The political action committee supporting the group is reporting 5.4 million dollars in contributions – nearly all of that, Olivia, from Alastair Mactaggart.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nOlivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:09:13] And who’s come out against it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow \u003c/strong>[00:09:15] On the no side we’ve got the \u003ca href=\"https://consumercal.org/\">Consumer Federation of California\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://media-alliance.org/\">Media Alliance\u003c/a>, a couple chapters of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclu.org/\">ACLU\u003c/a> [American Civil Liberties Union]. These groups are against 24 for a host of different reasons. Some say the state doesn’t really need another regulatory agency, which Prop 24 would create. Others think this prop is simply the wrong way to solve this type of problem because laws voted in as propositions are harder to amend than laws passed by the state legislature.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:09:45] I should also mention the no side has spent nowhere near the amount of money Mactaggart has. To date, not even 50 grand, according to the secretary of state’s website.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:09:56] And we should also mention that there are some pretty notable groups like \u003ca href=\"https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/index.htm\">Consumer Reports\u003c/a> and the \u003ca href=\"https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/07/why-eff-doesnt-support-cal-prop-24\">Electronic Frontier Foundation [EFF]\u003c/a> who are not taking a side.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:10:05] Yes. And this is particularly interesting to me. I reached out to Hayley Tsukayama, a legislative analyst at EFF, which is a well-respected consumer data privacy advocate.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nHayley Tsukayama\u003c/strong> [00:10:16] So, I’m not saying it’s the worst thing in the world, I’m just, it’s not something that we felt able to support.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nRachael Myrow \u003c/strong>[00:10:23] The EFF has dug into the details in a tech savvy way, but also they haven’t locked into a political position that makes you worry they’re shoving other concerns behind the curtain, trying to show a united front.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hayley Tsukayama\u003c/strong> [00:10:36] I just think there are enough things in here that I don’t know what they would do, functionally, and I don’t know how hard they will be to fix if they do end up being wrong. It’s a funny time in privacy law, right? We’re trying a lot of things. We’re seeing what there’s political appetite for. We’re seeing what there’s consumer appetite for.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:10:57] So, she wants to see the new privacy law that we already have play out for a bit, sounds like.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow \u003c/strong>[00:11:02] Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:11:03] I mean, that’s kind of taking a side?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:11:06] I mean, mainly in the sense that the EFF is following an ancient maxim in California ballot box politics: When in doubt, don’t vote yes. I don’t get the impression reading the foundation’s blog post explaining their position that anyone at the foundation believes Prop 24 is world ending or an unfixable giveaway to industry. It’s just, as we’ve been talking about, it’s way too hard to understand, even to people who know the territory.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:11:34] All right. Well, Rachael Myrow, thank you for walking us through this one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:11:38] My pleasure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:11:45] In a nutshell, a vote yes on Proposition 24 says you want to see California’s consumer data privacy laws expanded as outlined in the full 50 plus page text of this proposition. And you support creating a new state agency to enforce these laws. A no vote means businesses will continue to follow California’s current data privacy laws and the state’s Department of Justice would continue to enforce them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:12:14] That’s it on Proposition 24. We’ll be back tomorrow with our final episode of Prop Fest. It’ll cover Prop 25, which would end the use of cash bail in California. So it’s a big one. Catch up on all of our prop fest episodes in our podcast feed or online at Bay Curious dot org slash prop fest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:12:34] One reminder, October 19th is the last day you can register to vote. That’s this coming Monday. \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Bay Curious Prop Fest\u003c/a> is produced by \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/katrinaschwartz\">Katrina Schwartz\u003c/a>, Katie McMurran, Rob Speight and me, Olivia Allen-Price. Our show was made in San Francisco at member supported KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriousquestion]\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>The Bay Curious team is breaking down all 12 of the statewide propositions on the ballot this November. If you missed our coverage of Propositions 14-23, check out the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Prop Fest\u003c/a> homepage or \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/podcasts/baycurious\">subscribe to the Bay Curious podcast\u003c/a>.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC9691888386\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:00:00] Good morning, friends. Olivia Allen-Price here on our second to last day of Bay Curious Prop Fest, our twelve part series explaining the propositions on California’s statewide ballot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:00:12] Today, we take on \u003ca href=\"https://voterguide.sos.ca.gov/propositions/24/\">Proposition 24\u003c/a>. It’s a measure about consumer data privacy. The full text of this prop is more than 50 pages and it has lots of provisions. And quite frankly, they’re not all easy to understand. We’ll go through some of them today on the show. It’s Proposition 24, the consumer privacy prop.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nOlivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:00:36] Proposition 24 would change consumer privacy law in California in a lot of different ways. But before we can explain what it would do, it’s important to understand where we’ve been.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:00:48] Well, Olivia, it all starts at a dinner party.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:00:51] This is \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/rachael-myrow\">Rachael Myrow\u003c/a>, senior editor of KQED’s Silicon Valley Desk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" loading=\"lazy\" />\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Bay Curious\u003c/a> is a podcast that answers your questions about the Bay Area.\n Subscribe on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>,\n \u003ca href=\"http://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">NPR One\u003c/a> or your favorite podcast platform.\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:00:55] This Bay Area real estate developer named \u003ca href=\"https://www.caprivacy.org/about-us/\">Alastair Mactaggart\u003c/a> gets to talking with a Google engineer at this party.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alastair Mactaggart\u003c/strong> [00:01:02] There was something in the press that day about privacy, and I asked him, hey, what’s – is there a big deal about this? And I expect him to say, nothing to see here. And he said, you’d be terrified if you knew how much we knew about everybody.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:01:14] So he goes home and he starts learning about this global industry where people are buying and selling our data, essentially.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alastair Mactaggart \u003c/strong>[00:01:20] We’re being tracked 24/7, 365. All of your searches, all of your location, who you’re standing next to, what apps you have installed, what you’re interested in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:01:32] Alastair Mactaggart decides to write a ballot proposition with a bunch of consumer privacy protections that he wants to see put in place. Lawmakers and the tech industry take notice, and they were worried that if a proposition like that went before voters and passed, it would be super difficult to amend.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:01:49] They got him to wave it off with the promise that there would be a bill that would be passed in the state legislature and that during the legislative year that followed, there would be lots of little amendments that could be discussed, debated, passed or killed. And that’s exactly what happened.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:02:08] The \u003ca href=\"https://oag.ca.gov/privacy/ccpa\">California Consumer Privacy Act\u003c/a> passes in 2018, then goes into effect in January of this year. You know, those dialog boxes that pop up when you visit websites all the time now? The ones with the big “accept” button. Yeah, that’s the California Consumer Privacy Act [CCPA] in action.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:02:28] Basically, you can think about it in five easy pieces, right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:02:35] Number one, you have the right to go to any company that’s collecting information about you and ask, what are you collecting – specifically? Like, send me the details.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:02:46] Number two, you have the right to tell that company to delete your information.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:02:52] Three, you have the right to demand that the company not sell the information on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow \u003c/strong>[00:02:57] Number four, you, the consumer, can sue only if a company’s negligence leads to a hack that exposes your data. Otherwise, only the state attorney general’s office can sue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:03:10] Finally, number five, companies can’t create this two tier system where you get a lesser package of goods and services if you try to exercise your rights to privacy under the CCPA.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:03:27] So, that’s the California Consumer Privacy Act, which is in effect already. But Mactaggart and a lot of others aren’t quite satisfied.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:03:35] You know, a lot of people would describe it as a hot mess. And, you know, quite possibly Mactaggart as well, because he’s back with this second proposition. It’s more of what he wants to see and less of what is kind of collectively hashed out by all of these different power players in Sacramento.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:03:55] OK. So that gets us to today, we’re looking at Prop 24 on our ballot, a new collection of privacy measures. Rachel, what are we voting on here?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow \u003c/strong>[00:04:03] So many things, Olivia. Too many things, in fact, to explain without going into some depth. I’m going to talk about four of the biggies, although actually, why don’t we have Mactaggart talk about, number one:.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alastair Mactaggart\u003c/strong> [00:04:13] Recreate a new category of sensitive personal information. That’s your race, your ethnicity, your health information, your sexual orientation. And you get to tell a business, look, that stuff is so sensitive, you shouldn’t even be able to use it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:04:29] Proposition 24 goes into further detail about what it defines as “sensitive data”. Number two, tougher fines for companies that violate children’s privacy rights. Number three, no holding onto data longer than necessary. Unclear exactly what that means, but that’s a concept in there. Number four, news state agency. This Olivia, I think, is the most intriguing aspect of Proposition 24, the creation of a new regulatory agency funded at a bare minimum of ten million dollars a year to work in tandem with the state attorney general’s office.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nAlastair Mactaggart\u003c/strong> [00:05:07] We should have more privacy professionals in this agency than right now exist in the FTC [Federal Trade Commission] for the entire country. The FTC only has about 40 lawyers for the entire country for privacy. And we’ll have about the same number here in California once it gets funded up and operating if the initiative passes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:05:21] Rachel, I thought Thomas was already the case under current consumer privacy law. Like that I could tell companies not to use my sensitive info.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:05:31] Right. That’s one of the confusing things about Proposition 24, that it promises to enshrine some things that are already law. Of course, there’s very little enforcement, and companies, big and small sidestep the laws a lot. So, it’s possible a new purpose built regulatory agency in Sacramento might enforce better behavior.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:05:51] Mactaggart says consumer privacy protections would be more secure if this prop passes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alastair Mactaggart\u003c/strong> [00:05:57] CCPA right now is “just a law”. It can get amended by the legislature tomorrow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:06:02] Voter passed initiatives are harder to amend. But Mactaggart says this one does give legislators a little more flexibility.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alastair Mactaggart\u003c/strong> [00:06:09] We do give the legislature the power to invent it, even with just a simple majority vote. But here’s the sort of protection: It has to be amended in furtherance of the purpose and intent of the act. And we have a section which is kinda of like a bill of rights for privacy, it just says, hey look, you can amend it, just don’t hurt consumers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:06:29] But this one isn’t all about increasing privacy for consumers. There are some provisions that seem like they might have the opposite effect.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:06:37] Frankly, Olivia, here’s where things get confusing. I mean, on the one hand, Prop 24 directs companies to collect only what they need to provide you with their service. But it would be easier for companies to refuse to delete your information when you asked them to. And easier for companies to squirrel out of making sure that other companies get some of that data are also complying with your request not to use it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:07:02] Prop 24 would also reduce the number of companies that have to comply with these privacy laws. Companies that buy or sell data from less than 100,000 households a year would be exempt.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:07:18] Where do the companies who this prop could impact come down on this one?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:07:22] That’s an excellent question. And I really want to take this moment to make the point that we’re not just talking about tech companies like Facebook and Google collecting and selling your data. We’ve reached the point now in the global economy where your insurance company is in this game, your broadband provider, your retail outlets, and a host of companies you’ve never even heard of, located all over the world. And while we saw a lot of lobbyists paid for by these companies, saying a lot of things very loudly when the rollout of the current consumer privacy law was in play, most of them seemed to be weirdly silent right now. There are different ideas about why that is, but the one I’ve heard most often is that the industry knows data collection is not popular, knows that consumer privacy is popular, so, they’re just staying in the shadows to avoid blowback at the ballot box.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nOlivia Allen-Price \u003c/strong>[00:08:17] All right. Well, let’s get into what makes this prop sort of especially fascinating to me. Who is for and against it? I understand that it’s kind of all over the place.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:08:26] Yes. People and groups who are usually on the same page are split on this one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:08:32] OK, let’s start with who’s for it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:08:33] \u003ca href=\"https://consumerwatchdog.org/\">Consumer WatchDog\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.commonsensemedia.org/\">Common Sense\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.latimes.com/people/the-times-editorial-board\">The L.A. Times Editorial Board\u003c/a>, and perhaps the biggest headliner of all, \u003ca href=\"https://www.yang2020.com/\">Andrew Yang\u003c/a>, former presidential candidate who was one of the foremost techies on the early campaign trail. I would say, to put it succinctly, these folks like the basic premise of expanding consumer rights, and they trust Alastair Mactaggart, that his heart is in the right place, even if the language of the proposition is convoluted and unclear. The political action committee supporting the group is reporting 5.4 million dollars in contributions – nearly all of that, Olivia, from Alastair Mactaggart.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nOlivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:09:13] And who’s come out against it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow \u003c/strong>[00:09:15] On the no side we’ve got the \u003ca href=\"https://consumercal.org/\">Consumer Federation of California\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://media-alliance.org/\">Media Alliance\u003c/a>, a couple chapters of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.aclu.org/\">ACLU\u003c/a> [American Civil Liberties Union]. These groups are against 24 for a host of different reasons. Some say the state doesn’t really need another regulatory agency, which Prop 24 would create. Others think this prop is simply the wrong way to solve this type of problem because laws voted in as propositions are harder to amend than laws passed by the state legislature.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:09:45] I should also mention the no side has spent nowhere near the amount of money Mactaggart has. To date, not even 50 grand, according to the secretary of state’s website.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:09:56] And we should also mention that there are some pretty notable groups like \u003ca href=\"https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/index.htm\">Consumer Reports\u003c/a> and the \u003ca href=\"https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/07/why-eff-doesnt-support-cal-prop-24\">Electronic Frontier Foundation [EFF]\u003c/a> who are not taking a side.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:10:05] Yes. And this is particularly interesting to me. I reached out to Hayley Tsukayama, a legislative analyst at EFF, which is a well-respected consumer data privacy advocate.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nHayley Tsukayama\u003c/strong> [00:10:16] So, I’m not saying it’s the worst thing in the world, I’m just, it’s not something that we felt able to support.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\nRachael Myrow \u003c/strong>[00:10:23] The EFF has dug into the details in a tech savvy way, but also they haven’t locked into a political position that makes you worry they’re shoving other concerns behind the curtain, trying to show a united front.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Hayley Tsukayama\u003c/strong> [00:10:36] I just think there are enough things in here that I don’t know what they would do, functionally, and I don’t know how hard they will be to fix if they do end up being wrong. It’s a funny time in privacy law, right? We’re trying a lot of things. We’re seeing what there’s political appetite for. We’re seeing what there’s consumer appetite for.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:10:57] So, she wants to see the new privacy law that we already have play out for a bit, sounds like.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow \u003c/strong>[00:11:02] Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:11:03] I mean, that’s kind of taking a side?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:11:06] I mean, mainly in the sense that the EFF is following an ancient maxim in California ballot box politics: When in doubt, don’t vote yes. I don’t get the impression reading the foundation’s blog post explaining their position that anyone at the foundation believes Prop 24 is world ending or an unfixable giveaway to industry. It’s just, as we’ve been talking about, it’s way too hard to understand, even to people who know the territory.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:11:34] All right. Well, Rachael Myrow, thank you for walking us through this one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow\u003c/strong> [00:11:38] My pleasure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:11:45] In a nutshell, a vote yes on Proposition 24 says you want to see California’s consumer data privacy laws expanded as outlined in the full 50 plus page text of this proposition. And you support creating a new state agency to enforce these laws. A no vote means businesses will continue to follow California’s current data privacy laws and the state’s Department of Justice would continue to enforce them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:12:14] That’s it on Proposition 24. We’ll be back tomorrow with our final episode of Prop Fest. It’ll cover Prop 25, which would end the use of cash bail in California. So it’s a big one. Catch up on all of our prop fest episodes in our podcast feed or online at Bay Curious dot org slash prop fest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price\u003c/strong> [00:12:34] One reminder, October 19th is the last day you can register to vote. That’s this coming Monday. \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Bay Curious Prop Fest\u003c/a> is produced by \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/katrinaschwartz\">Katrina Schwartz\u003c/a>, Katie McMurran, Rob Speight and me, Olivia Allen-Price. Our show was made in San Francisco at member supported KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>Proposition 25 is the culmination of a long fight over the bail system in California. A win for the “Yes” vote would uphold a law that abolishes cash bail and replaces it with a system that uses “risk assessment” algorithms to help judges decide whether to keep people locked up before trial. A win for the “No” vote would stop these changes and keep cash bail in place.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bail industry is in the “No” camp, but so are some progressive groups \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11841209/proposition-25-would-end-cash-bail-so-why-are-some-progressive-groups-against-it\">who think this new system would also be unjust\u003c/a> and want the state legislature to go back to the drawing board on bail reform. That’s why the campaign around Proposition 25 isn’t just about the merits of cash bail — it’s about whether or not this is the state’s best chance to end it for good.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guest: \u003c/strong>Marisa Lagos, KQED politics correspondent and co-host of the Political Breakdown podcast\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Click \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">\u003cstrong>here\u003c/strong>\u003c/a> to check out KQED’s California Voter Guide, which includes information on statewide propositions, local measures, and voting.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Proposition 25 is the culmination of a long fight over the bail system in California. A win for the “Yes” vote would uphold a law that abolishes cash bail and replaces it with a system that uses “risk assessment” algorithms to help judges decide whether to keep people locked up before trial. A win for the “No” vote would stop these changes and keep cash bail in place.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bail industry is in the “No” camp, but so are some progressive groups \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11841209/proposition-25-would-end-cash-bail-so-why-are-some-progressive-groups-against-it\">who think this new system would also be unjust\u003c/a> and want the state legislature to go back to the drawing board on bail reform. That’s why the campaign around Proposition 25 isn’t just about the merits of cash bail — it’s about whether or not this is the state’s best chance to end it for good.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guest: \u003c/strong>Marisa Lagos, KQED politics correspondent and co-host of the Political Breakdown podcast\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Click \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/voterguide\">\u003cstrong>here\u003c/strong>\u003c/a> to check out KQED’s California Voter Guide, which includes information on statewide propositions, local measures, and voting.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cem>Proposition 22 asks Californians if they want to define app-based transportation and delivery drivers as independent contractors, instead of as employees, as state law currently requires. This is an industry-specific carve-out. This episode is part of our \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Bay Curious Prop Fest\u003c/a> series, which explores the 12 propositions on California’s ballot. The series runs from Oct. 1-16, with new episodes dropping every weekday.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:00:00] I’m \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/ohubertallen\"> Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/a> . You’re listening to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Bay Curious Prop Fest. \u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:00:05] It’s the most expensive ballot measure in California history, \u003ca href=\"https://voterguide.sos.ca.gov/propositions/22/\">Proposition 22 \u003c/a>. Or, as you might be calling it, that one about \u003ca href=\"https://www.uber.com/\">Uber \u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.lyft.com/\">Lyft. \u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lyft driver \u003c/b> [00:00:15] I like the flexibility of driving whenever you want. Having your own schedule.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Uber driver \u003c/b>[00:00:20] We want to be independent contractors, but Uber doesn’t treat us like independent contractors. We’re not able to set our rates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lyft driver \u003c/b><[00:00:26] Right now, I’m going to school. As my part-time gig to make money I’m doing Lyft.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Uber driver \u003c/b>[00:00:31] We’re not able to work when we want to, we pretty much have to work when we have to, in order to make money.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:00:38] How should app based drivers be classified? As employees or contractors? Prop 22 asks the public to decide. Today in the show we’ll unpack what difference those classifications make and learn how Prop 22 could impact the future of work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:01:02] KQED reporter \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/samharnett\">Sam Harnett\u003c/a> has been covering these gig apps for years now and is here to walk us through Prop 22. Welcome, Sam.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:01:09] Hello, Olivia.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:01:10] So I know there’s a lot of layers to this one and we’re gonna get into all of those, but give us first a brief break down, what would Prop 22 do? What are we voting on?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:01:19] So at the highest level, Proposition 22 would exempt a handful of gig app companies like Uber, Lyft and \u003ca href=\"https://www.instacart.com/\">Instacart \u003c/a>from California state labor law. And it would allow those companies to continue classifying their drivers as contractors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[baycuriouspodcastinfo]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:01:33] And the issue of whether app based drivers, you know, should be considered employees or independent contractors, it really goes back to sort of the beginning of when these apps kind of first came out. What’s going on?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:01:45] Sure. So if you go back to the beginning of Uber and Lyft in 2012, they started using this labor model where they, they classified their workers as contractors, which means they don’t pay unemployment insurance, they don’t have to pay overtime, they don’t pay workers comp. They have way less liability if there’s an accident. The whole business model is built on this contractor status, which was legally suspect from the start. So there are lawsuits right in the beginning against these companies, but the companies prevailed and they were able to keep classifying their workers as contractors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:02:11] Then in 2018, the California Supreme Court came in and they issued what’s called \u003ca href=\"https://scocal.stanford.edu/opinion/dynamex-operations-west-inc-v-superior-court-34584\">The Dynamex Decision\u003c/a>, which actually wasn’t about the gig companies, it was about this independent trucking company that was classifying workers as contractors. But anyway, it made it harder for companies to classify workers as contractors. So in 2018, a lot people thought, OK, now these companies are going to change and start classifying workers as employees. But the companies didn’t.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:02:34] So, the legislature in 2019 passed a law called AB 5, which just codified into law the California Supreme Court dynamic’s decision. That became a law in 2020, and a lot people thought, OK, now, Uber, Lyft and InstaCart, they’re going to classify their workers as employees. But the companies didn’t. So then the pandemic happens, suddenly you’ve got tens or hundreds of thousands of workers for these apps that are out of work, but they can’t collect unemployment because the companies never paid into the state unemployment fund. So then you had the California attorney general step in, and a bunch of city attorneys, and they sued Uber and Lyft. This was back in May. And they sued them saying, hey, listen, you’re you’re still misclassifying your workers. Meanwhile, Uber, Lyft, Instacart, \u003ca href=\"https://postmates.com/\">Postmates\u003c/a> and a bunch of the other gig apps put Proposition 22 on the ballot. And they’re betting like, OK, if we can get the voters to pass this proposition, then we can keep operating as, as we were before.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:03:27] Can you explain a little bit more thoroughly like what is the difference effectively between an employee and an independent contractor?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:03:34] In America the only way to get basic protections like unemployment insurance, guaranteed minimum wage, overtime, workers compensation, is to be an employee. If you’re a contractor, you don’t get any of those protections. That’s essentially the difference. Really, the contractor was supposed to be for kind of professionals who were making a ton of money and were deciding to be a contractor because they wanted to, not because they were being forced to be a contractor. But corporations saw that, hey, with this contractor model, we can get out of paying for all these employee benefits and protections, and it’s way, way cheaper. So over the last, you know, since the late 70s, companies have been pushing more and more workers from employees into contractor status. It’s really just about do you get guaranteed employee protections or not?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:04:19] OK. And can we get into, like, a little bit the nitty gritty of 22 – what would really change.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:04:25] So Proposition 22 is a carve out for select companies. And the carve out is for companies that do transportation or delivery through apps. And if a company fits that description, that means they can classify their workers as contractors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:04:39] And this isn’t just like Uber and Lyft, which is what I think people immediately think of, but also like delivery, like \u003ca href=\"https://www.doordash.com/en-US\">DoorDash\u003c/a>, Instacart,.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:04:46] PostMates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:04:47] Anyone who is in a car.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:04:48] Yeah. Through an app, on a car, on a bike, doing delivery or transportation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:04:53] OK.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:04:53] The proposition then also has a couple increase perks or benefits for contractors. They can get health subsidies if they drive a certain amount. They can get limited insurance. They also, it says Iike a minimum floor for pay, but the minimum pay is calculated based on engaged hours – this is a really important difference. So it’s 120% of minimum wage is going to be guaranteed, but that’s only while you’re actually engaged in the app.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside label=\"From KQED's California Voter Guide\" link1='https://www.kqed.org/voterguide/proposition-22-ab-5-gig-workers,Proposition 22: Should so-called gig economy companies such as Uber, Lyft, and Instacart be exempted from state labor law?' hero=https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/2020/10/KQED-Election-2020-Aside-Prop-22.png]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:05:17] So that means if you’re driving for Uber and let’s say you don’t get a ride for an hour, well, you don’t get paid for that hour of driving around even though you were working. So that’s like a really important kind of distinction. And I guess, the thing with Proposition 22 is, it’s all – it all gets very complicated in the details, but basically, if you look at the package, it’s going to guarantee a slight improvement to the benefits and protections for the contractors, but it’s far short of what you’d get in employee status.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:05:42] Could other industries be impacted if this passes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:05:45] It creates this sort of third category that you can bet that corporations are going to go for because they can see a way to make money. And if you remember, Uber and Lyft, you know, started the gig app trend, but Instacart, PostMates, DoorDash, all these companies followed Uber and Lyft by creating apps to create more jobs that were contractor and not employee. So, you can bet that a lot of other industries, if they can figure out a way, you know, if trucking can get on an app, you know, maybe there’s a way to have warehouse workers work through an app. This opens the door for more companies to try to find ways to fit this model because contractors are way cheaper than employees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:06:24] Now, what are these companies like Uber, Lyft, Instacart, DoorDash, etc., what are their arguments for why people should vote for 22?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:06:32] I’d say their primary argument is: This will allow us to keep operating as we were operating. It’s basically a pitch to consumers saying, hey, you know, you liked Uber and Lyft and Instacart and DoorSash. The second argument they make is, you know, listen, people need work right now, and so you can get work through these apps. We just want to give people work. And it’s not our fault that America doesn’t have a real safety net. It’s not our fault that it’s really hard to make it in this country, even if you’re working full-time. The anti side is saying, listen, if you allow these corporations to provide this kind of subpar, substandard work, you’re going to erode more of the good jobs that we do have. And you’re going to see more and more companies following Uber, Lyft, Instacart down this app route, which means you’re going to have more inequality and you’re going to have less good jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:07:14] I’ve seen a lot of arguments that these companies will stop operating in California if this law doesn’t pass. Is that a risk here?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:07:22] Well, Uber definitely made it clear that they would temporarily pull out of California. But it’s important to remember that Uber, Lyft and other gig companies have threatened to leave whenever they didn’t like a regulation in multiple cities and states across the country. In Austin, in New York City, in Chicago and Seattle, and they always came back. In all of those cases, Uber and Lyft would temporarily leave until the regulation was changed back in their favor and then they return.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:07:48] Now, if you look at California, you know, I think what, Olivia, we’re like the fifth biggest economy in the world. Right? The idea that they would pull out of California forever, it just doesn’t seem very feasible, given how big of a market that they are now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:08:01] Sort of another sort of, I guess, argument that I’ve seen out there is not just, OK, we might pull out of California, but also if we have to make everyone employees, fewer people will be able to drive for us because of the additional cost of making them employees. Could we see drivers potentially lose out on opportunity here if this were to fail?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:08:24] Uber, Lyft, DoorDash, shifting to employee status is definitely gonna force them to change their business model. They’re going to have to do things a little differently, and that might mean they have fewer drivers who then drive more hours. And so some very casual drivers might lose out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:08:39] Drivers using these apps come down on both sides of Prop 22. Supporters are worried that becoming employees could ultimately take away their flexible work schedules or cause job losses. They also say rates could go up for consumers and service could disappear from lower profit regions. Drivers voting against Prop 22 want the protections that they would get as an employee. They argue a company shouldn’t get to write their own labor laws. They also point out that Prop 22 would be difficult to amend or overturn, requiring a 7/8 vote in the California state legislature or another proposition on a feature ballot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:09:19] The campaign financing on this one is bonkers. What does the money situation look like?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:09:23] Right. So on the pro side, I mean, the people who want this proposition, it’s mainly the gig companies. Over 181 million dollars. The most on a California proposition. And if you’re watching TV right now, you’re probably seeing the ads. I mean, they are flooding the airwaves. On the against side, it’s mostly labor, and they’ve got about 10 million dollars. So it’s an 18 to 1 disparity between the funding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:09:47] Well, Sam Harnett, KQED, Silicon Valley reporter, thanks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:09:50] Thanks, Olivia.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:09:52] To put a cap on this one, a vote yes says you think app based driving services should be treated differently from other industries and be allowed to classify their workers as independent contractors rather than employees. A no vote means you think app based driving services should follow the regulations set out by our existing law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:10:14] Bay Curious Prop Fest is produced by \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/katrinaschwartz\">Katrina Schwartz\u003c/a>, Rob Speight, Katie McMurran and me, Olivia Allen-Price, with a huge assist from the entire KQED newsroom. Our show is made in San Francisco at member supported KQED. We’ll be back tomorrow with an episode on Prop 23, the dialysis prop. See you then.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>Proposition 22 asks Californians if they want to define app-based transportation and delivery drivers as independent contractors, instead of as employees, as state law currently requires. This is an industry-specific carve-out. This episode is part of our \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Bay Curious Prop Fest\u003c/a> series, which explores the 12 propositions on California’s ballot. The series runs from Oct. 1-16, with new episodes dropping every weekday.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:00:00] I’m \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/ohubertallen\"> Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/a> . You’re listening to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/propfest\">Bay Curious Prop Fest. \u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:00:05] It’s the most expensive ballot measure in California history, \u003ca href=\"https://voterguide.sos.ca.gov/propositions/22/\">Proposition 22 \u003c/a>. Or, as you might be calling it, that one about \u003ca href=\"https://www.uber.com/\">Uber \u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.lyft.com/\">Lyft. \u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lyft driver \u003c/b> [00:00:15] I like the flexibility of driving whenever you want. Having your own schedule.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Uber driver \u003c/b>[00:00:20] We want to be independent contractors, but Uber doesn’t treat us like independent contractors. We’re not able to set our rates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Lyft driver \u003c/b><[00:00:26] Right now, I’m going to school. As my part-time gig to make money I’m doing Lyft.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Uber driver \u003c/b>[00:00:31] We’re not able to work when we want to, we pretty much have to work when we have to, in order to make money.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:00:38] How should app based drivers be classified? As employees or contractors? Prop 22 asks the public to decide. Today in the show we’ll unpack what difference those classifications make and learn how Prop 22 could impact the future of work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:01:02] KQED reporter \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/samharnett\">Sam Harnett\u003c/a> has been covering these gig apps for years now and is here to walk us through Prop 22. Welcome, Sam.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:01:09] Hello, Olivia.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:01:10] So I know there’s a lot of layers to this one and we’re gonna get into all of those, but give us first a brief break down, what would Prop 22 do? What are we voting on?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:01:19] So at the highest level, Proposition 22 would exempt a handful of gig app companies like Uber, Lyft and \u003ca href=\"https://www.instacart.com/\">Instacart \u003c/a>from California state labor law. And it would allow those companies to continue classifying their drivers as contractors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003caside class=\"alignleft utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__bayCuriousPodcastShortcode__bayCurious\">\u003cimg src=https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/bayCuriousLogo.png alt=\"Bay Curious Podcast\" loading=\"lazy\" />\n \u003ca href=\"/news/series/baycurious\">Bay Curious\u003c/a> is a podcast that answers your questions about the Bay Area.\n Subscribe on \u003ca href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bay-curious/id1172473406\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/a>,\n \u003ca href=\"http://www.npr.org/podcasts/500557090/bay-curious\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">NPR One\u003c/a> or your favorite podcast platform.\u003c/aside>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:01:33] And the issue of whether app based drivers, you know, should be considered employees or independent contractors, it really goes back to sort of the beginning of when these apps kind of first came out. What’s going on?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:01:45] Sure. So if you go back to the beginning of Uber and Lyft in 2012, they started using this labor model where they, they classified their workers as contractors, which means they don’t pay unemployment insurance, they don’t have to pay overtime, they don’t pay workers comp. They have way less liability if there’s an accident. The whole business model is built on this contractor status, which was legally suspect from the start. So there are lawsuits right in the beginning against these companies, but the companies prevailed and they were able to keep classifying their workers as contractors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:02:11] Then in 2018, the California Supreme Court came in and they issued what’s called \u003ca href=\"https://scocal.stanford.edu/opinion/dynamex-operations-west-inc-v-superior-court-34584\">The Dynamex Decision\u003c/a>, which actually wasn’t about the gig companies, it was about this independent trucking company that was classifying workers as contractors. But anyway, it made it harder for companies to classify workers as contractors. So in 2018, a lot people thought, OK, now these companies are going to change and start classifying workers as employees. But the companies didn’t.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:02:34] So, the legislature in 2019 passed a law called AB 5, which just codified into law the California Supreme Court dynamic’s decision. That became a law in 2020, and a lot people thought, OK, now, Uber, Lyft and InstaCart, they’re going to classify their workers as employees. But the companies didn’t. So then the pandemic happens, suddenly you’ve got tens or hundreds of thousands of workers for these apps that are out of work, but they can’t collect unemployment because the companies never paid into the state unemployment fund. So then you had the California attorney general step in, and a bunch of city attorneys, and they sued Uber and Lyft. This was back in May. And they sued them saying, hey, listen, you’re you’re still misclassifying your workers. Meanwhile, Uber, Lyft, Instacart, \u003ca href=\"https://postmates.com/\">Postmates\u003c/a> and a bunch of the other gig apps put Proposition 22 on the ballot. And they’re betting like, OK, if we can get the voters to pass this proposition, then we can keep operating as, as we were before.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:03:27] Can you explain a little bit more thoroughly like what is the difference effectively between an employee and an independent contractor?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:03:34] In America the only way to get basic protections like unemployment insurance, guaranteed minimum wage, overtime, workers compensation, is to be an employee. If you’re a contractor, you don’t get any of those protections. That’s essentially the difference. Really, the contractor was supposed to be for kind of professionals who were making a ton of money and were deciding to be a contractor because they wanted to, not because they were being forced to be a contractor. But corporations saw that, hey, with this contractor model, we can get out of paying for all these employee benefits and protections, and it’s way, way cheaper. So over the last, you know, since the late 70s, companies have been pushing more and more workers from employees into contractor status. It’s really just about do you get guaranteed employee protections or not?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:04:19] OK. And can we get into, like, a little bit the nitty gritty of 22 – what would really change.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:04:25] So Proposition 22 is a carve out for select companies. And the carve out is for companies that do transportation or delivery through apps. And if a company fits that description, that means they can classify their workers as contractors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:04:39] And this isn’t just like Uber and Lyft, which is what I think people immediately think of, but also like delivery, like \u003ca href=\"https://www.doordash.com/en-US\">DoorDash\u003c/a>, Instacart,.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:04:46] PostMates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:04:47] Anyone who is in a car.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:04:48] Yeah. Through an app, on a car, on a bike, doing delivery or transportation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:04:53] OK.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:04:53] The proposition then also has a couple increase perks or benefits for contractors. They can get health subsidies if they drive a certain amount. They can get limited insurance. They also, it says Iike a minimum floor for pay, but the minimum pay is calculated based on engaged hours – this is a really important difference. So it’s 120% of minimum wage is going to be guaranteed, but that’s only while you’re actually engaged in the app.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"link1": "https://www.kqed.org/voterguide/proposition-22-ab-5-gig-workers,Proposition 22: Should so-called gig economy companies such as Uber, Lyft, and Instacart be exempted from state labor law?",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:05:17] So that means if you’re driving for Uber and let’s say you don’t get a ride for an hour, well, you don’t get paid for that hour of driving around even though you were working. So that’s like a really important kind of distinction. And I guess, the thing with Proposition 22 is, it’s all – it all gets very complicated in the details, but basically, if you look at the package, it’s going to guarantee a slight improvement to the benefits and protections for the contractors, but it’s far short of what you’d get in employee status.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:05:42] Could other industries be impacted if this passes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:05:45] It creates this sort of third category that you can bet that corporations are going to go for because they can see a way to make money. And if you remember, Uber and Lyft, you know, started the gig app trend, but Instacart, PostMates, DoorDash, all these companies followed Uber and Lyft by creating apps to create more jobs that were contractor and not employee. So, you can bet that a lot of other industries, if they can figure out a way, you know, if trucking can get on an app, you know, maybe there’s a way to have warehouse workers work through an app. This opens the door for more companies to try to find ways to fit this model because contractors are way cheaper than employees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:06:24] Now, what are these companies like Uber, Lyft, Instacart, DoorDash, etc., what are their arguments for why people should vote for 22?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:06:32] I’d say their primary argument is: This will allow us to keep operating as we were operating. It’s basically a pitch to consumers saying, hey, you know, you liked Uber and Lyft and Instacart and DoorSash. The second argument they make is, you know, listen, people need work right now, and so you can get work through these apps. We just want to give people work. And it’s not our fault that America doesn’t have a real safety net. It’s not our fault that it’s really hard to make it in this country, even if you’re working full-time. The anti side is saying, listen, if you allow these corporations to provide this kind of subpar, substandard work, you’re going to erode more of the good jobs that we do have. And you’re going to see more and more companies following Uber, Lyft, Instacart down this app route, which means you’re going to have more inequality and you’re going to have less good jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:07:14] I’ve seen a lot of arguments that these companies will stop operating in California if this law doesn’t pass. Is that a risk here?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:07:22] Well, Uber definitely made it clear that they would temporarily pull out of California. But it’s important to remember that Uber, Lyft and other gig companies have threatened to leave whenever they didn’t like a regulation in multiple cities and states across the country. In Austin, in New York City, in Chicago and Seattle, and they always came back. In all of those cases, Uber and Lyft would temporarily leave until the regulation was changed back in their favor and then they return.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:07:48] Now, if you look at California, you know, I think what, Olivia, we’re like the fifth biggest economy in the world. Right? The idea that they would pull out of California forever, it just doesn’t seem very feasible, given how big of a market that they are now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:08:01] Sort of another sort of, I guess, argument that I’ve seen out there is not just, OK, we might pull out of California, but also if we have to make everyone employees, fewer people will be able to drive for us because of the additional cost of making them employees. Could we see drivers potentially lose out on opportunity here if this were to fail?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:08:24] Uber, Lyft, DoorDash, shifting to employee status is definitely gonna force them to change their business model. They’re going to have to do things a little differently, and that might mean they have fewer drivers who then drive more hours. And so some very casual drivers might lose out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:08:39] Drivers using these apps come down on both sides of Prop 22. Supporters are worried that becoming employees could ultimately take away their flexible work schedules or cause job losses. They also say rates could go up for consumers and service could disappear from lower profit regions. Drivers voting against Prop 22 want the protections that they would get as an employee. They argue a company shouldn’t get to write their own labor laws. They also point out that Prop 22 would be difficult to amend or overturn, requiring a 7/8 vote in the California state legislature or another proposition on a feature ballot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:09:19] The campaign financing on this one is bonkers. What does the money situation look like?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:09:23] Right. So on the pro side, I mean, the people who want this proposition, it’s mainly the gig companies. Over 181 million dollars. The most on a California proposition. And if you’re watching TV right now, you’re probably seeing the ads. I mean, they are flooding the airwaves. On the against side, it’s mostly labor, and they’ve got about 10 million dollars. So it’s an 18 to 1 disparity between the funding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:09:47] Well, Sam Harnett, KQED, Silicon Valley reporter, thanks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Harnett \u003c/b>[00:09:50] Thanks, Olivia.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:09:52] To put a cap on this one, a vote yes says you think app based driving services should be treated differently from other industries and be allowed to classify their workers as independent contractors rather than employees. A no vote means you think app based driving services should follow the regulations set out by our existing law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Allen-Price \u003c/b>[00:10:14] Bay Curious Prop Fest is produced by \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/katrinaschwartz\">Katrina Schwartz\u003c/a>, Rob Speight, Katie McMurran and me, Olivia Allen-Price, with a huge assist from the entire KQED newsroom. Our show is made in San Francisco at member supported KQED. We’ll be back tomorrow with an episode on Prop 23, the dialysis prop. See you then.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"airtime": "SUN 1pm-2pm, TUE 10pm, WED 1am",
"meta": {
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"source": "City Arts & Lectures"
},
"link": "https://www.cityarts.net",
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},
"closealltabs": {
"id": "closealltabs",
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"order": 1
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"title": "Code Switch / Life Kit",
"info": "\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em>, which listeners will hear in the first part of the hour, has fearless and much-needed conversations about race. Hosted by journalists of color, the show tackles the subject of race head-on, exploring how it impacts every part of society — from politics and pop culture to history, sports and more.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em>, which will be in the second part of the hour, guides you through spaces and feelings no one prepares you for — from finances to mental health, from workplace microaggressions to imposter syndrome, from relationships to parenting. The show features experts with real world experience and shares their knowledge. Because everyone needs a little help being human.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510312/codeswitch\">\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/lifekit\">\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />",
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"id": "commonwealth-club",
"title": "Commonwealth Club of California Podcast",
"info": "The Commonwealth Club of California is the nation's oldest and largest public affairs forum. As a non-partisan forum, The Club brings to the public airwaves diverse viewpoints on important topics. The Club's weekly radio broadcast - the oldest in the U.S., dating back to 1924 - is carried across the nation on public radio stations and is now podcasting. Our website archive features audio of our recent programs, as well as selected speeches from our long and distinguished history. This podcast feed is usually updated twice a week and is always un-edited.",
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"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Commonwealth-Club-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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"source": "Commonwealth Club of California"
},
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5jb21tb253ZWFsdGhjbHViLm9yZy9hdWRpby9wb2RjYXN0L3dlZWtseS54bWw",
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"id": "forum",
"title": "Forum",
"tagline": "The conversation starts here",
"info": "KQED’s live call-in program discussing local, state, national and international issues, as well as in-depth interviews.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 9am-11am, 10pm-11pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Forum-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED Forum with Mina Kim and Alexis Madrigal",
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"order": 9
},
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"id": "freakonomics-radio",
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"airtime": "SUN 1am-2am, SAT 3pm-4pm",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "WNYC"
},
"link": "/radio/program/freakonomics-radio",
"subscribe": {
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/freakonomics-radio/id354668519",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/WNYC-Podcasts/Freakonomics-Radio-p272293/",
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},
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"id": "fresh-air",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=214089682&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
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"info": "A live production of NPR and WBUR Boston, in collaboration with stations across the country, Here & Now reflects the fluid world of news as it's happening in the middle of the day, with timely, in-depth news, interviews and conversation. Hosted by Robin Young, Jeremy Hobson and Tonya Mosley.",
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"hidden-brain": {
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"info": "Shankar Vedantam uses science and storytelling to reveal the unconscious patterns that drive human behavior, shape our choices and direct our relationships.",
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"airtime": "SUN 7pm-8pm",
"meta": {
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"source": "NPR"
},
"link": "/radio/program/hidden-brain",
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"how-i-built-this": {
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"title": "How I Built This with Guy Raz",
"info": "Guy Raz dives into the stories behind some of the world's best known companies. How I Built This weaves a narrative journey about innovators, entrepreneurs and idealists—and the movements they built.",
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"airtime": "SUN 7:30pm-8pm",
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"link": "/radio/program/how-i-built-this",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-built-this-with-guy-raz/id1150510297?mt=2",
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"hyphenacion": {
"id": "hyphenacion",
"title": "Hyphenación",
"tagline": "Where conversation and cultura meet",
"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/Hyphenacion_FinalAssets_PodcastTile.png",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/hyphenacion",
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"order": 15
},
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},
"jerrybrown": {
"id": "jerrybrown",
"title": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown",
"tagline": "Lessons from a lifetime in politics",
"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game – and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-Political-Mind-of-Jerry-Brown-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/jerrybrown",
"meta": {
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"order": 18
},
"link": "/podcasts/jerrybrown",
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},
"latino-usa": {
"id": "latino-usa",
"title": "Latino USA",
"airtime": "MON 1am-2am, SUN 6pm-7pm",
"info": "Latino USA, the radio journal of news and culture, is the only national, English-language radio program produced from a Latino perspective.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/latinoUsa.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://latinousa.org/",
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},
"link": "/radio/program/latino-usa",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=79681317&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510016/podcast.xml"
}
},
"marketplace": {
"id": "marketplace",
"title": "Marketplace",
"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 4pm-4:30pm, MON-WED 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Marketplace-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.marketplace.org/",
"meta": {
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"source": "American Public Media"
},
"link": "/radio/program/marketplace",
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},
"masters-of-scale": {
"id": "masters-of-scale",
"title": "Masters of Scale",
"info": "Masters of Scale is an original podcast in which LinkedIn co-founder and Greylock Partner Reid Hoffman sets out to describe and prove theories that explain how great entrepreneurs take their companies from zero to a gazillion in ingenious fashion.",
"airtime": "Every other Wednesday June 12 through October 16 at 8pm (repeats Thursdays at 2am)",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "https://mastersofscale.com/",
"meta": {
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"source": "WaitWhat"
},
"link": "/radio/program/masters-of-scale",
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"rss": "https://rss.art19.com/masters-of-scale"
}
},
"mindshift": {
"id": "mindshift",
"title": "MindShift",
"tagline": "A podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids",
"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED MindShift: How We Will Learn",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/mindshift/",
"meta": {
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 12
},
"link": "/podcasts/mindshift",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5",
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}
},
"morning-edition": {
"id": "morning-edition",
"title": "Morning Edition",
"info": "\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. Hosts Steve Inskeep, David Greene and Rachel Martin bring you the latest breaking news and features to prepare you for the day.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 3am-9am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Morning-Edition-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/programs/morning-edition/",
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"link": "/radio/program/morning-edition"
},
"onourwatch": {
"id": "onourwatch",
"title": "On Our Watch",
"tagline": "Deeply-reported investigative journalism",
"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/On-Our-Watch-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "On Our Watch from NPR and KQED",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/onourwatch",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "kqed",
"order": 11
},
"link": "/podcasts/onourwatch",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1567098962",
"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5ucHIub3JnLzUxMDM2MC9wb2RjYXN0LnhtbD9zYz1nb29nbGVwb2RjYXN0cw",
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},
"on-the-media": {
"id": "on-the-media",
"title": "On The Media",
"info": "Our weekly podcast explores how the media 'sausage' is made, casts an incisive eye on fluctuations in the marketplace of ideas, and examines threats to the freedom of information and expression in America and abroad. For one hour a week, the show tries to lift the veil from the process of \"making media,\" especially news media, because it's through that lens that we see the world and the world sees us",
"airtime": "SUN 2pm-3pm, MON 12am-1am",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/onTheMedia.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/otm",
"meta": {
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"source": "wnyc"
},
"link": "/radio/program/on-the-media",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/on-the-media/id73330715?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/On-the-Media-p69/",
"rss": "http://feeds.wnyc.org/onthemedia"
}
},
"pbs-newshour": {
"id": "pbs-newshour",
"title": "PBS NewsHour",
"info": "Analysis, background reports and updates from the PBS NewsHour putting today's news in context.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 3pm-4pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/PBS-News-Hour-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.pbs.org/newshour/",
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},
"link": "/radio/program/pbs-newshour",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/pbs-newshour-full-show/id394432287?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/PBS-NewsHour---Full-Show-p425698/",
"rss": "https://www.pbs.org/newshour/feeds/rss/podcasts/show"
}
},
"perspectives": {
"id": "perspectives",
"title": "Perspectives",
"tagline": "KQED's series of daily listener commentaries since 1991",
"info": "KQED's series of daily listener commentaries since 1991.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Perspectives_Tile_Final.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED Perspectives",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/perspectives/",
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 14
},
"link": "/perspectives",
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"npr": "https://www.npr.org/podcasts/432309616/perspectives",
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},
"planet-money": {
"id": "planet-money",
"title": "Planet Money",
"info": "The economy explained. Imagine you could call up a friend and say, Meet me at the bar and tell me what's going on with the economy. Now imagine that's actually a fun evening.",
"airtime": "SUN 3pm-4pm",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/planetmoney.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.npr.org/sections/money/",
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