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"content": "\u003cp>For decades, the Internet Archive has preserved our digital history. Lately, journalists and ordinary citizens have been turning to it more than ever, as the Trump administration undertakes an ideologically-driven purge of government websites. But the Archive itself faces an existential threat. In this episode, Close All Tabs Senior Editor Chris Egusa joins Morgan to discuss his visit to the Internet Archive and its colorful founder Brewster Kahle, the legal battles that could shut it down permanently — and what losing it might mean for accountability and the preservation of history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC4918161208\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Guests:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://brewster.kahle.org/\">Brewster Kahle\u003c/a>, Founder of the Internet Archive\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Further reading:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/internet-archive-major-label-music-lawsuit-1235105273/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Inside the $621 Million Legal Battle for the ‘Soul of the Internet’\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> – Jon Blistein, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Rolling Stone\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.techradar.com/pro/open-internet-web-scraping-and-ai-the-unbreakable-link\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Open Internet, web scraping, and AI: the unbreakable link\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Julius Cerniauskas, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">TechRadar\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.engadget.com/entertainment/music/musicians-demand-music-labels-drop-their-internet-archive-lawsuit-214139644.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAK2IFY7PAMZw0BT91Rg2Pvhx66osGJFtnuFHxCEEx9slXFq6Lu1c6VJvuUZm0sVSQBFj11ViHZ6hZN6a_JMUEDU_hhjxeh_HxVHNP47DDOj9w5pnFaUWg81zH_miG2pKzGHH68STu0eXU_K2zFYpaJcNSunaSm1U71VVfyL2DIlF\">Musicians demand music labels drop their Internet Archive lawsuit\u003c/a> — Ian Carlos Campbell, \u003ci>Engadget\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\">Follow us on Instagram\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is The Purge… Of government websites. Since President Trump’s inauguration, federal agency and military websites have been wiped. Some are gone completely, while others have been overhauled to remove any references to so-called woke terminology, all in this effort to comply with an executive order to end diversity, equity, and inclusion programs in the federal government. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it seems like in the rush to remove all of these woke words, there were maybe some unintentional cuts, like when the Department of Defense took down a 1940s photo. It was a picture of a pilot, posing in front of one of the planes that dropped the atomic bombs over Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But what does this photo have to do with diversity, equity, or inclusion? Well, the plane was named the Enola Gay. It was named after the pilot’s mother, Enola Gay Tibbitts. There are still other photos of the Enola Gay available on government websites, but in the past few months, countless pages with crucial information have been wiped from the internet. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Fortunately, for journalists, historians, and anyone who cares about keeping track of facts, there’s a tool that lets us go back and see exactly how those websites have changed. Unfortunately, that very tool is under threat. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Close All Tabs. I’m \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Morgan Sung\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, tech journalist and your chronically online friend, here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Let’s get into it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>Close All Tabs\u003c/em> Senior Editor \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Chris Egusa\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> is gonna walk us through this magical tool called the Wayback Machine. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey, Morgan. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I already have a tab open. It’s the current version of the State Department’s safety tips for queer people traveling abroad. And you have your own tab. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it’s the same web page, same URL, but I have gone back in time, kind of. That’s where the Wayback Machine comes in. It’s part of this organization called the Internet Archive. And for the past 30 years, it’s basically scraped the internet page by page and archived it. So if you have a URL or link to a website, you can go back and see all the ways that that website has changed. I used the Wayback Machine to look at the page from January 5th, before this executive order. At the top of the page, it’s addressed to LGBTQI plus travelers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Unlike the one I’m seeing, the one that’s currently live, which just says, L-G-B Travelers. What else does your version have? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it has a lot of resources. It has instructions for changing your passport’s gender marker, warnings about conversion therapy practices in other countries, and also links to the National Center for Transgender Equality and other organizations. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, this current one I have on my screen doesn’t have any of that, just no warnings about conversion therapy and definitely none of those resources for trans people. There’s actually no mention of trans people at all. They kept a link to the Trevor Project, but they made a point to say that it’s an organization for LGB youth. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Which is wild, because the Trevor Project is very involved in advocating for trans youth and gender-affirming care. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, and again, this is just one page out of who knows how many that have been altered to take the T out of LGBT. How panicked should we be about the scale of erasure of public information? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, this has happened before. During Trump’s first term, pages about climate change and the environment were altered to soften the language, or they were just wiped entirely. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But that purge wasn’t nearly as expansive or haphazard as the one we’re currently living through, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, but I think it has prepared a lot of us for a situation like this. This time around, a lot more people are relying on the Wayback Machine and the Internet Archive. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, and in all of this mess, the existence of the internet archive itself is under threat, which could spell trouble for the future of all online libraries. So to get a better understanding of it all, Chris, you went to the archive in person a few weeks ago. Let’s start there. Let’s make that our first tab. What is the Internet Archive? You know, when I think of the Internet Archive, I’m thinking of like the Matrix, Cyberchase, when they’re like running through this kind of like cloud and there are just binary numbers everywhere. But the Internet Archive is a real physical location. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, no, it’s a real place. It is not in the Matrix. It is in San Francisco in the Richmond district. It’s in this very grand building and out front it has these huge Greek columns that kind of line the entrance of it. They actually chose the building in part because it resembles the archive’s logo, which is the columns of the Library of Alexandria. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Library of Alexandria. I mean, that is like the Greek idea of a universal library. That’s a pretty lofty idea to aspire to. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It is. And the organization isn’t shy about their ambitions. Their stated mission is to provide, quote, universal access to all knowledge. According to their website, the archive currently contains, and I’m just gonna reel off a bunch of numbers here, 835 billion webpages. I think last I checked, that number’s actually close to a trillion. 44 million books and texts, 15 million audio recordings, 10.6 million videos, and on and on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wow. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a lot, like, I can’t even quite conceptualize what a trillion web pages even looks like. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, Chris, tell me, what was the archive actually like? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was actually really cool. Brewster Kahle is the founder of the archive and he was really excited to give me a tour and introduce me to all kinds of old media devices they’d collected over the years. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Edison invented these cylinders in 1880. Mostly, you know, things that you’ve never heard. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So yeah, right when we got there, we go up some stairs and he shows me this very vintage, beautiful old gramophone. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a Victor Talking Machine 5 from 1927. So it’s a old 78 RPM player, no electricity, it’s a crank, has a horn, so spinning up. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Song: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mairzy doats and dozy doats and liddle lamzy divey / A kiddley divey too, wouldn’t you?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t know if you recognize that song, but it immediately made me think of Twin Peaks. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes! Yes, it does. I am right in the middle of my rewatch right now, so… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I need to do a re-watch in David Lynch’s honor, for sure. Yeah, and then when he started playing this, he then started dancing around the room, which is just like-. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, Audrey Horne. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Song: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A little bit jumbled and jivey \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So after visiting this little museum area, Brewster takes me into this huge room and it has this beautiful domed ceiling. It used to be a Christian Science Church. The whole building did. There are all these lines of pews that are facing where the pulpit used to be. And in place of that pulpit, there’s this huge projector screen. And so they use this place for like movie screenings, for local community events and things. But there is one thing that draws your eye more than anything else in the room. That is the statues. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Statues? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, they are these hundreds of terracotta figures. They are about waist high, and each one of them has distinct features in clothing. And they’re all kind of facing forward, like they’re congregants in this hall of worship. Haunting. So it’s a bit of an eerie scene, but according to Brewster… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you work for the archive for three years, then we make a little statue. Basically tributes to the people that made the organization happen. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So not like framed photos, just a three foot statue. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, exactly. And they’re really detailed. Another employee was with us on the tour. His name is Chris Freeland. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Freeland: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s weird to be standing here in front of a terracotta statue of yourself, but here we are. It does look like me, and that’s also uncanny. Everyone says they got the beard right, which is making me sad, since it is covered in gray and no longer brown, or red-brown, like it was when I was, you know, 20 years younger, but here we are. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And all these statues are standing in the pews and around the outside of the room, facing the front, sort of at attention. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know what this reminds me of? It’s that terracotta army that’s like protecting the tomb of like the first emperor of China. And they’re meant to like protect the emperor in the afterlife. And I guess it’s fitting because these statues look like they’re, I don’t know, protecting the internet ephemera long after it’s gone. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s actually very appropriate because behind all of these statues in the very back of the room is where the servers live. Um, he tells me that they hold 145 petabytes of data, which I don’t deal in petabytes, it’s the one after terabyte. Um, so it’s a lot. And yeah, these are the servers where all of the billions of web pages, videos, and audio, where all of it lives. There’s a cool moment actually, like when you stare at these devices, you see all of these twinkling blue lights flashing and flickering across them, um, like hundreds a second. And here is what Brewster told me about that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Every time a light blinks is somebody uploading or downloading something from the Internet Archive. I think that the technology reflects the people that make it, so let’s make it beautiful. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That sounds almost magical. I mean, I get how this could be like a religious experience. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, and I almost compare it to the way that old cathedrals were meant to evoke that sense of awe. It was hard not to feel a little awestruck being in that place. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These servers hold some non-trivial percentage of all of the published works of humankind. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so tell me about Brewster, the guy who founded this whole thing, started this statue army and this cathedral of servers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, as you can already tell, Brewster is pretty eccentric and he kind of comes from that old school vision of the internet where he thinks it should be free and open. He really feels that now power is way too concentrated in a few big companies. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Companies often don’t sell anything anymore. They just license it. Now, if you use Netflix or Spotify, you don’t even have a video library like you used to with DVDs or you don’t have MP3s on your device or records in your collections. So there’s been this shift by the large-scale publishers towards ongoing control of materials and surveillance of what it is being viewed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They believe that most things should be open and available to the public, and especially that old things should be preserved, even old webpages. And so that’s where you get the Wayback Machine. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We have the World Wide Web on Archive.org, available back to 1996, so you can go and find your old webpages, your old GeoCity sites, or whatever it is that you’ve done in the past. But it also is relevant to people currently. Journalists are using it a lot to find, well, what did that person say? And they’re saying something kind of different. um… and they said they never said that well no we don’t know we found that in the television news archive and you can search and find this on television transcripts uh… back to 2009.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And you can tell that Brewster is old school because he uses the phrase worldwide web, which I love. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So vintage of him. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, it is kind of miraculous. I do feel that you can go back and look at a website like that and see exactly what it looked like, but there’s no other place that that exists. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so clearly the Internet Archive is this incredible resource. Is it true that it might shut down? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, let’s talk about it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, let’s open a new tab on that, but right after this break. Okay, new tab, Internet Archive Lawsuits. So let’s talk about these lawsuits that the Internet Archive is facing. They’re not about the Wayback Machine or the webpage archiving, right? They’re about a totally different part of the archive’s operations. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the Internet Archive also has these huge operations where they preserve old physical media. In some cases, the stuff they’re preserving is very clearly public material that is for public access. Like they have this program called Democracy’s Library, where they go and digitize all the print records for all kinds of government agencies. But they also digitize things like books and music, and sometimes that includes copyrighted material. So there are two specific lawsuits at the center of this. The first was a case called Hachette v. Internet Archive, and that was brought against the Internet Archive by book publishers. They objected to the Archive’s practice of digitizing books and lending them out digitally, even though many of them were out of print. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, but that sounds like a normal library thing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, it kind of is, though there is a wrinkle to it because of this program they did in 2020 during the pandemic lockdowns. So before, the archive operated kind of how libraries normally do. They have a certain number of licenses, you can check each book out, but during this time it became unlimited access for anyone. Though I will say that Brewster and his team strongly dispute the idea that the case was about this pandemic era program at all. They say the lawsuit had been planned before that program ever started. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Either way, after a lengthy appeals process, the judge did rule against them, and the judgment required the Internet Archive to pay publishers an undisclosed amount. And even though the lawsuit was about like these specific 127 copyrighted works, the Archive ended up removing over 500,000 books from their digital collection, which free speech and pro-access people were very upset about because a lot of these books aren’t available anywhere else. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that brings us to this next lawsuit. This was brought on by the music industry, two major record labels, Universal Music Group and Sony Music. What can you tell us about this case? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So this suit was brought against them in 2023 and it centers around another one of the Internet Archive’s programs. This one is called the Great 78 Project. And 78 stands for 78 RPM records. It’s a format that was super popular from the 1890s to like the late 1950s. And this program was this massive communal undertaking to digitize and preserve these very old 78s. They digitized and cataloged more than 400,000 of these recordings since starting the project in 2017. And they made those recordings available to the public to stream on their website. And the key here is how they thought about this project. They felt like they were undertaking the preservation of a defunct technology and the sound of American culture in a bygone era. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Those older materials that were sort of foundational of what did America sound like are so obsolete that we went and we circulated in the industry conferences to say, “okay, there’s going to be this project, the Great 78 Project,” and libraries and archives, a hundred different ones came together to go inform this. The industry knew about it. They were all supportive that when we talked to them, it was all great. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But the record labels saw things differently. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They definitely did. In their lawsuit, the labels called the Great 78 Project quote, “wholesale theft of generations of music.” And they claim that by making the records available to stream for free, that the Internet Archive was displacing streams that generate royalties on platforms like Spotify or Apple Music, royalties that could have gone to either the platforms themselves or the copyright holders like the artists. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, do they have a point? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So obviously I’m not a legal expert, but here’s what the record labels say. In the suit, they’re focusing on 4,000 specific recordings that do have copyright protections. They are commercially available and many of them are still very popular, including Bing Crosby’s White Christmas, which is the best-selling single of all time. So I think it’s gonna be tough. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And we know what the actual amount that they’re suing for is, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it’s $621 million. And just to put it in perspective, the Internet Archive’s operating budget is a tiny fraction of that, just around $30 million. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If we’re found guilty of being a library and then that will cost us, yes, it would snuff the Internet Archive. And that may be the point. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s pretty bleak. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah it is. I will also add that regardless of where you land on, okay, was this copyright infringement or not, the details of the case strike me as kind of strange. First thing is there were a notably small number of streams per audio file in question. Um, like hundreds, or, you know, in some cases a few thousand. But not like hundreds of thousands or millions. And so, if you actually convert the number of streams to a dollar amount based on how much Spotify royalties pay, you’re generally looking at a couple of dollars per audio file. A bit more in a few cases. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So clearly publishers are not experiencing, you know, dramatic monetary loss due to these relatively small number of streams. Right? But the record companies, they still decided to sue for the maximum amount under the law, which is $150,000 per record, even though they could have sued for less. They also never even asked the Internet Archive to take the records down. They never received a request. They were just slapped with this lawsuit.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And if we had gotten that list, we would have taken it down. And we did, once they sued it, you just give us the list and we would have taken them down. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But the other thing is, and I’m not saying that this argument will hold up in court, but like, I think about a platform like YouTube, right? YouTube gets copyrighted material uploaded to it constantly. And the way it works is that when an interested copyright holding party requests that they remove certain content, that content then gets taken down. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, that’s the way the internet basically works and those 78s are on YouTube. So it’s, so we basically have a, they’re after something else. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He thinks the publishing companies are going after the library system itself, the ability for people to access materials for free. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The bigger picture that’s going on and the real contest is not about money, it’s actually about control. Can libraries own anything in the digital world? Is there digital ownership? That’s the central characteristic. And there’s a question, “is the United States going to have libraries have their traditional roles of buying, preserving, lending and interlibrary loan?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But the case itself likely won’t move forward until later this year, so we’ll have to wait and see how that develops. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right, changing gears a little bit. We are a tech show, so I feel like we’re almost contractually obligated to mention AI somehow in almost every episode that we make. But I don’t know, Chris, that feels like a new tab. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think so. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, new tab, Internet Archive and AI Legal Battles. AI companies have also been hit by big lawsuits from publishers, and you may not think of it at first, but AI companies like ChatGPT and the Internet Archive have some similarities. They both use tools to scrape the web for data and text and other content. Of course, what they do is different. The Internet Archive stores and preserves it, while AI companies use it to train their models. What’s Brewster’s take on AI? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So he’s a big proponent actually. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re using the AI technologies for a bunch of what may seem like mundane tasks, but are super helpful. Like putting metadata on all these government documents. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He says that one of the big problems with a site like the Internet Archive is that there’s just so much stuff on there. Organization can be a struggle and people visiting the site can get overwhelmed. AI can make all of that easier by tagging and categorizing the billions of pieces of media they have to make them more easily findable. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, if you go to archive.org anecdotally people say, “You know you kind of arrive and it’s just huge and it’s a mass and holy crow and I don’t know where to start!” And so if we could make that on ramp easier wouldn’t that be fantastic. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And as far as the lawsuits against AI companies, he thinks that the laws are too in favor of publishers and copyright holders and that they should be relaxed to allow AI companies to operate more easily. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We don’t have regulatory clarity. So there are now 80 lawsuits around the AI world. So it’s going to be just who has more lawyers. And that’s going to end up with just a few gigantic players. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, I’m actually so surprised that he’s pro-AI. We’ve talked a lot about how AI has ushered in this era where everything is essentially editable. So yeah, for somebody who’s so preoccupied with the preservation and accurate recording of history, I was surprised that he’d be so on board with technology that seems to be like the antithesis of that in some ways. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. One thing that is clear is that the outcomes of these AI lawsuits could impact the Internet Archive because they’re both about the enforcement of copyright law. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right, it seems like there’s this trade-off where if you want a free and accessible internet where information is free and accessible, you also have to expect it to be scrapable. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">100%. And the Internet Archive does similar kinds of scraping techniques that AI companies do, like you said. Overall, it seems that he thinks that’s a trade-off worth making. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so we have the Internet Archive, this organization that provides all these public services that the internet has become dependent on. And we also have this massive lawsuit that threatens to shut the organization down. I mean, it feels like we’re in a moment where that possibility is more concerning than ever. We have political turbulence, disinformation, these new AI technologies that are making it harder and harder to get the truth. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wait Morgan, Morgan… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you think that’s a new tab? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, you know what? You’re so right, Chris. Do you wanna do the honors? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I would love to. Let’s open a new tab. What happens if the Internet Archive goes away? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We talked about this at the top of the episode, but the Internet Archive plays such a critical role in our information ecosystem. And like Brewster says, our ability to go back and check the record. I mean, that’s what we lose when we lose the Internet Archive. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s such an important issue, especially right now. Brewster says that after each presidential term, they go through and catalog all of the government websites, including the ones we talked about earlier. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We have, since the year 2004, gone and done an end of term crawl to go and record all the federal websites that we possibly can to go and download and preserve what it looked like before the change and then right away after the change. And are there changes? Yes. Are there always changes? Yes. Are there changes that you agree with? Depends on how you voted, but the idea of library is we’re there to preserve the record. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think the logical question is, what if it does shut down? What then? Has Brewster even entertained this idea? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I think it’s hard for him to go there. Like, this is his life’s work. But he has definitely thought about the threat that looms if our ability to preserve our understanding of the past goes away. So he references George Orwell’s dystopian vision of the future from the book 1984. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The image of the memory hole is just the idea that next to your desk is this hole that you can go and put the only copy of that newspaper in an incinerator and be able to change history is upon us. The average life of a web page is 100 days before it’s changed or deleted. If we do not actively collect them and preserve them and keep them accessible, we’re living in the memory whole universe of George Orwell. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, okay, is there any hope here? Is there only option to just give it and crawl into a memory hole and accept it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t think we have to accept the memory hole, and I certainly hope that we don’t. But I’ll wrap up with an observation about Brewster himself. So what struck me about him the most was he just has this unrelenting optimism. He seems to truly love what he does, and he believes in it so strongly, and he’s cultivated this team around him that really shares in that vision. So, even with the looming threat of this extinction-level lawsuit coming up from the music publishers, it’s like he can’t quite bring himself to imagine that the Internet Archive could really go away. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, I think we’re doing fine. I think that there might be pieces of the Internet Archive that are chiseled away by very powerful interests, but the idea of a library or even just the Internet Archive as an organization has got lots of support. So, can the Internet Archive go away? Yes. Would it be a bad thing, I would think so. But I think the real issues are going to be whether the legislatures and the judiciary go and side with people’s access to information in some way or another. We’ll see that play out over the next 25 years of the Internet Archive’s life. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Brewster, it’s about the Internet Archive, of course, but it’s also so much more. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t know the words exactly, but in every librarian’s mind, those who control the past control the present, those who control the present control the future. The idea of a library is part of an ecosystem of how society remembers. That’s how it thinks of itself. If you were to erase the Internet Archive and the libraries, which is in many ways happening now, then we will live in a danger of having people be able to recast what happened. Oh, as a society that believes in universal education and the fulfillment of individual possibility, we just can’t let that happen. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So are you ready to close these tabs? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Let’s close these tabs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios and is reported and hosted by me, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Morgan Sung\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Our producer is Maya Cueva. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Chris Egusa\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> is our Senior Editor. Jen Chien is KQED’s Director of Podcasts and helps edit the show. Original music and sound design by \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Chris Egusa\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Additional music by APM. Mixing, mastering and additional sound design by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad and Alana Walker. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager, and Holly Kernan is our Chief Content Officer. Support for this program comes from Birong Hu and supporters of the KQED Studios Fund. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco Northern California Local. Keyboard sounds were recorded on my purple and pink Dust Silver K84 wired mechanical keyboard with Gateron Red switches. If you have feedback or a topic you think we should cover, hit us up at CloseAllTabs@kqed.org. Follow us on Instagram at CloseAllTabsPod. And if you’re enjoying the show, give us a rating on Apple Podcasts or whatever platform you use. Thanks for listening!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"title": "What Happens if the Internet Archive Goes Dark? | KQED",
"description": "For decades, the Internet Archive has preserved our digital history. Lately, journalists and ordinary citizens have been turning to it more than ever, as the Trump administration undertakes an ideologically-driven purge of government websites. But the Archive itself faces an existential threat. In this episode, Close All Tabs Senior Editor Chris Egusa joins Morgan to discuss his visit to the Internet Archive and its colorful founder Brewster Kahle, the legal battles that could shut it down permanently — and what losing it might mean for accountability and the preservation of history.",
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"socialDescription": "For decades, the Internet Archive has preserved our digital history. Lately, journalists and ordinary citizens have been turning to it more than ever, as the Trump administration undertakes an ideologically-driven purge of government websites. But the Archive itself faces an existential threat. In this episode, Close All Tabs Senior Editor Chris Egusa joins Morgan to discuss his visit to the Internet Archive and its colorful founder Brewster Kahle, the legal battles that could shut it down permanently — and what losing it might mean for accountability and the preservation of history.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>For decades, the Internet Archive has preserved our digital history. Lately, journalists and ordinary citizens have been turning to it more than ever, as the Trump administration undertakes an ideologically-driven purge of government websites. But the Archive itself faces an existential threat. In this episode, Close All Tabs Senior Editor Chris Egusa joins Morgan to discuss his visit to the Internet Archive and its colorful founder Brewster Kahle, the legal battles that could shut it down permanently — and what losing it might mean for accountability and the preservation of history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC4918161208\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Guests:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://brewster.kahle.org/\">Brewster Kahle\u003c/a>, Founder of the Internet Archive\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Further reading:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/internet-archive-major-label-music-lawsuit-1235105273/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Inside the $621 Million Legal Battle for the ‘Soul of the Internet’\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> – Jon Blistein, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Rolling Stone\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.techradar.com/pro/open-internet-web-scraping-and-ai-the-unbreakable-link\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Open Internet, web scraping, and AI: the unbreakable link\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Julius Cerniauskas, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">TechRadar\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.engadget.com/entertainment/music/musicians-demand-music-labels-drop-their-internet-archive-lawsuit-214139644.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAK2IFY7PAMZw0BT91Rg2Pvhx66osGJFtnuFHxCEEx9slXFq6Lu1c6VJvuUZm0sVSQBFj11ViHZ6hZN6a_JMUEDU_hhjxeh_HxVHNP47DDOj9w5pnFaUWg81zH_miG2pKzGHH68STu0eXU_K2zFYpaJcNSunaSm1U71VVfyL2DIlF\">Musicians demand music labels drop their Internet Archive lawsuit\u003c/a> — Ian Carlos Campbell, \u003ci>Engadget\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\">Follow us on Instagram\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is The Purge… Of government websites. Since President Trump’s inauguration, federal agency and military websites have been wiped. Some are gone completely, while others have been overhauled to remove any references to so-called woke terminology, all in this effort to comply with an executive order to end diversity, equity, and inclusion programs in the federal government. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it seems like in the rush to remove all of these woke words, there were maybe some unintentional cuts, like when the Department of Defense took down a 1940s photo. It was a picture of a pilot, posing in front of one of the planes that dropped the atomic bombs over Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But what does this photo have to do with diversity, equity, or inclusion? Well, the plane was named the Enola Gay. It was named after the pilot’s mother, Enola Gay Tibbitts. There are still other photos of the Enola Gay available on government websites, but in the past few months, countless pages with crucial information have been wiped from the internet. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Fortunately, for journalists, historians, and anyone who cares about keeping track of facts, there’s a tool that lets us go back and see exactly how those websites have changed. Unfortunately, that very tool is under threat. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Close All Tabs. I’m \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Morgan Sung\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, tech journalist and your chronically online friend, here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Let’s get into it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>Close All Tabs\u003c/em> Senior Editor \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Chris Egusa\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> is gonna walk us through this magical tool called the Wayback Machine. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey, Morgan. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I already have a tab open. It’s the current version of the State Department’s safety tips for queer people traveling abroad. And you have your own tab. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it’s the same web page, same URL, but I have gone back in time, kind of. That’s where the Wayback Machine comes in. It’s part of this organization called the Internet Archive. And for the past 30 years, it’s basically scraped the internet page by page and archived it. So if you have a URL or link to a website, you can go back and see all the ways that that website has changed. I used the Wayback Machine to look at the page from January 5th, before this executive order. At the top of the page, it’s addressed to LGBTQI plus travelers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Unlike the one I’m seeing, the one that’s currently live, which just says, L-G-B Travelers. What else does your version have? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it has a lot of resources. It has instructions for changing your passport’s gender marker, warnings about conversion therapy practices in other countries, and also links to the National Center for Transgender Equality and other organizations. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, this current one I have on my screen doesn’t have any of that, just no warnings about conversion therapy and definitely none of those resources for trans people. There’s actually no mention of trans people at all. They kept a link to the Trevor Project, but they made a point to say that it’s an organization for LGB youth. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Which is wild, because the Trevor Project is very involved in advocating for trans youth and gender-affirming care. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, and again, this is just one page out of who knows how many that have been altered to take the T out of LGBT. How panicked should we be about the scale of erasure of public information? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, this has happened before. During Trump’s first term, pages about climate change and the environment were altered to soften the language, or they were just wiped entirely. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But that purge wasn’t nearly as expansive or haphazard as the one we’re currently living through, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, but I think it has prepared a lot of us for a situation like this. This time around, a lot more people are relying on the Wayback Machine and the Internet Archive. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, and in all of this mess, the existence of the internet archive itself is under threat, which could spell trouble for the future of all online libraries. So to get a better understanding of it all, Chris, you went to the archive in person a few weeks ago. Let’s start there. Let’s make that our first tab. What is the Internet Archive? You know, when I think of the Internet Archive, I’m thinking of like the Matrix, Cyberchase, when they’re like running through this kind of like cloud and there are just binary numbers everywhere. But the Internet Archive is a real physical location. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, no, it’s a real place. It is not in the Matrix. It is in San Francisco in the Richmond district. It’s in this very grand building and out front it has these huge Greek columns that kind of line the entrance of it. They actually chose the building in part because it resembles the archive’s logo, which is the columns of the Library of Alexandria. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Library of Alexandria. I mean, that is like the Greek idea of a universal library. That’s a pretty lofty idea to aspire to. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It is. And the organization isn’t shy about their ambitions. Their stated mission is to provide, quote, universal access to all knowledge. According to their website, the archive currently contains, and I’m just gonna reel off a bunch of numbers here, 835 billion webpages. I think last I checked, that number’s actually close to a trillion. 44 million books and texts, 15 million audio recordings, 10.6 million videos, and on and on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wow. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a lot, like, I can’t even quite conceptualize what a trillion web pages even looks like. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, Chris, tell me, what was the archive actually like? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was actually really cool. Brewster Kahle is the founder of the archive and he was really excited to give me a tour and introduce me to all kinds of old media devices they’d collected over the years. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Edison invented these cylinders in 1880. Mostly, you know, things that you’ve never heard. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So yeah, right when we got there, we go up some stairs and he shows me this very vintage, beautiful old gramophone. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a Victor Talking Machine 5 from 1927. So it’s a old 78 RPM player, no electricity, it’s a crank, has a horn, so spinning up. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Song: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mairzy doats and dozy doats and liddle lamzy divey / A kiddley divey too, wouldn’t you?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t know if you recognize that song, but it immediately made me think of Twin Peaks. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes! Yes, it does. I am right in the middle of my rewatch right now, so… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I need to do a re-watch in David Lynch’s honor, for sure. Yeah, and then when he started playing this, he then started dancing around the room, which is just like-. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, Audrey Horne. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Song: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A little bit jumbled and jivey \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So after visiting this little museum area, Brewster takes me into this huge room and it has this beautiful domed ceiling. It used to be a Christian Science Church. The whole building did. There are all these lines of pews that are facing where the pulpit used to be. And in place of that pulpit, there’s this huge projector screen. And so they use this place for like movie screenings, for local community events and things. But there is one thing that draws your eye more than anything else in the room. That is the statues. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Statues? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, they are these hundreds of terracotta figures. They are about waist high, and each one of them has distinct features in clothing. And they’re all kind of facing forward, like they’re congregants in this hall of worship. Haunting. So it’s a bit of an eerie scene, but according to Brewster… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you work for the archive for three years, then we make a little statue. Basically tributes to the people that made the organization happen. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So not like framed photos, just a three foot statue. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, exactly. And they’re really detailed. Another employee was with us on the tour. His name is Chris Freeland. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Freeland: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s weird to be standing here in front of a terracotta statue of yourself, but here we are. It does look like me, and that’s also uncanny. Everyone says they got the beard right, which is making me sad, since it is covered in gray and no longer brown, or red-brown, like it was when I was, you know, 20 years younger, but here we are. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And all these statues are standing in the pews and around the outside of the room, facing the front, sort of at attention. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know what this reminds me of? It’s that terracotta army that’s like protecting the tomb of like the first emperor of China. And they’re meant to like protect the emperor in the afterlife. And I guess it’s fitting because these statues look like they’re, I don’t know, protecting the internet ephemera long after it’s gone. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s actually very appropriate because behind all of these statues in the very back of the room is where the servers live. Um, he tells me that they hold 145 petabytes of data, which I don’t deal in petabytes, it’s the one after terabyte. Um, so it’s a lot. And yeah, these are the servers where all of the billions of web pages, videos, and audio, where all of it lives. There’s a cool moment actually, like when you stare at these devices, you see all of these twinkling blue lights flashing and flickering across them, um, like hundreds a second. And here is what Brewster told me about that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Every time a light blinks is somebody uploading or downloading something from the Internet Archive. I think that the technology reflects the people that make it, so let’s make it beautiful. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That sounds almost magical. I mean, I get how this could be like a religious experience. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, and I almost compare it to the way that old cathedrals were meant to evoke that sense of awe. It was hard not to feel a little awestruck being in that place. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These servers hold some non-trivial percentage of all of the published works of humankind. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so tell me about Brewster, the guy who founded this whole thing, started this statue army and this cathedral of servers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, as you can already tell, Brewster is pretty eccentric and he kind of comes from that old school vision of the internet where he thinks it should be free and open. He really feels that now power is way too concentrated in a few big companies. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Companies often don’t sell anything anymore. They just license it. Now, if you use Netflix or Spotify, you don’t even have a video library like you used to with DVDs or you don’t have MP3s on your device or records in your collections. So there’s been this shift by the large-scale publishers towards ongoing control of materials and surveillance of what it is being viewed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They believe that most things should be open and available to the public, and especially that old things should be preserved, even old webpages. And so that’s where you get the Wayback Machine. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We have the World Wide Web on Archive.org, available back to 1996, so you can go and find your old webpages, your old GeoCity sites, or whatever it is that you’ve done in the past. But it also is relevant to people currently. Journalists are using it a lot to find, well, what did that person say? And they’re saying something kind of different. um… and they said they never said that well no we don’t know we found that in the television news archive and you can search and find this on television transcripts uh… back to 2009.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And you can tell that Brewster is old school because he uses the phrase worldwide web, which I love. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So vintage of him. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, it is kind of miraculous. I do feel that you can go back and look at a website like that and see exactly what it looked like, but there’s no other place that that exists. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so clearly the Internet Archive is this incredible resource. Is it true that it might shut down? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, let’s talk about it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, let’s open a new tab on that, but right after this break. Okay, new tab, Internet Archive Lawsuits. So let’s talk about these lawsuits that the Internet Archive is facing. They’re not about the Wayback Machine or the webpage archiving, right? They’re about a totally different part of the archive’s operations. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the Internet Archive also has these huge operations where they preserve old physical media. In some cases, the stuff they’re preserving is very clearly public material that is for public access. Like they have this program called Democracy’s Library, where they go and digitize all the print records for all kinds of government agencies. But they also digitize things like books and music, and sometimes that includes copyrighted material. So there are two specific lawsuits at the center of this. The first was a case called Hachette v. Internet Archive, and that was brought against the Internet Archive by book publishers. They objected to the Archive’s practice of digitizing books and lending them out digitally, even though many of them were out of print. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, but that sounds like a normal library thing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, it kind of is, though there is a wrinkle to it because of this program they did in 2020 during the pandemic lockdowns. So before, the archive operated kind of how libraries normally do. They have a certain number of licenses, you can check each book out, but during this time it became unlimited access for anyone. Though I will say that Brewster and his team strongly dispute the idea that the case was about this pandemic era program at all. They say the lawsuit had been planned before that program ever started. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Either way, after a lengthy appeals process, the judge did rule against them, and the judgment required the Internet Archive to pay publishers an undisclosed amount. And even though the lawsuit was about like these specific 127 copyrighted works, the Archive ended up removing over 500,000 books from their digital collection, which free speech and pro-access people were very upset about because a lot of these books aren’t available anywhere else. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that brings us to this next lawsuit. This was brought on by the music industry, two major record labels, Universal Music Group and Sony Music. What can you tell us about this case? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So this suit was brought against them in 2023 and it centers around another one of the Internet Archive’s programs. This one is called the Great 78 Project. And 78 stands for 78 RPM records. It’s a format that was super popular from the 1890s to like the late 1950s. And this program was this massive communal undertaking to digitize and preserve these very old 78s. They digitized and cataloged more than 400,000 of these recordings since starting the project in 2017. And they made those recordings available to the public to stream on their website. And the key here is how they thought about this project. They felt like they were undertaking the preservation of a defunct technology and the sound of American culture in a bygone era. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Those older materials that were sort of foundational of what did America sound like are so obsolete that we went and we circulated in the industry conferences to say, “okay, there’s going to be this project, the Great 78 Project,” and libraries and archives, a hundred different ones came together to go inform this. The industry knew about it. They were all supportive that when we talked to them, it was all great. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But the record labels saw things differently. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They definitely did. In their lawsuit, the labels called the Great 78 Project quote, “wholesale theft of generations of music.” And they claim that by making the records available to stream for free, that the Internet Archive was displacing streams that generate royalties on platforms like Spotify or Apple Music, royalties that could have gone to either the platforms themselves or the copyright holders like the artists. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, do they have a point? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So obviously I’m not a legal expert, but here’s what the record labels say. In the suit, they’re focusing on 4,000 specific recordings that do have copyright protections. They are commercially available and many of them are still very popular, including Bing Crosby’s White Christmas, which is the best-selling single of all time. So I think it’s gonna be tough. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And we know what the actual amount that they’re suing for is, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it’s $621 million. And just to put it in perspective, the Internet Archive’s operating budget is a tiny fraction of that, just around $30 million. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If we’re found guilty of being a library and then that will cost us, yes, it would snuff the Internet Archive. And that may be the point. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s pretty bleak. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah it is. I will also add that regardless of where you land on, okay, was this copyright infringement or not, the details of the case strike me as kind of strange. First thing is there were a notably small number of streams per audio file in question. Um, like hundreds, or, you know, in some cases a few thousand. But not like hundreds of thousands or millions. And so, if you actually convert the number of streams to a dollar amount based on how much Spotify royalties pay, you’re generally looking at a couple of dollars per audio file. A bit more in a few cases. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So clearly publishers are not experiencing, you know, dramatic monetary loss due to these relatively small number of streams. Right? But the record companies, they still decided to sue for the maximum amount under the law, which is $150,000 per record, even though they could have sued for less. They also never even asked the Internet Archive to take the records down. They never received a request. They were just slapped with this lawsuit.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And if we had gotten that list, we would have taken it down. And we did, once they sued it, you just give us the list and we would have taken them down. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But the other thing is, and I’m not saying that this argument will hold up in court, but like, I think about a platform like YouTube, right? YouTube gets copyrighted material uploaded to it constantly. And the way it works is that when an interested copyright holding party requests that they remove certain content, that content then gets taken down. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, that’s the way the internet basically works and those 78s are on YouTube. So it’s, so we basically have a, they’re after something else. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He thinks the publishing companies are going after the library system itself, the ability for people to access materials for free. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The bigger picture that’s going on and the real contest is not about money, it’s actually about control. Can libraries own anything in the digital world? Is there digital ownership? That’s the central characteristic. And there’s a question, “is the United States going to have libraries have their traditional roles of buying, preserving, lending and interlibrary loan?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But the case itself likely won’t move forward until later this year, so we’ll have to wait and see how that develops. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right, changing gears a little bit. We are a tech show, so I feel like we’re almost contractually obligated to mention AI somehow in almost every episode that we make. But I don’t know, Chris, that feels like a new tab. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think so. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, new tab, Internet Archive and AI Legal Battles. AI companies have also been hit by big lawsuits from publishers, and you may not think of it at first, but AI companies like ChatGPT and the Internet Archive have some similarities. They both use tools to scrape the web for data and text and other content. Of course, what they do is different. The Internet Archive stores and preserves it, while AI companies use it to train their models. What’s Brewster’s take on AI? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So he’s a big proponent actually. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re using the AI technologies for a bunch of what may seem like mundane tasks, but are super helpful. Like putting metadata on all these government documents. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">He says that one of the big problems with a site like the Internet Archive is that there’s just so much stuff on there. Organization can be a struggle and people visiting the site can get overwhelmed. AI can make all of that easier by tagging and categorizing the billions of pieces of media they have to make them more easily findable. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, if you go to archive.org anecdotally people say, “You know you kind of arrive and it’s just huge and it’s a mass and holy crow and I don’t know where to start!” And so if we could make that on ramp easier wouldn’t that be fantastic. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And as far as the lawsuits against AI companies, he thinks that the laws are too in favor of publishers and copyright holders and that they should be relaxed to allow AI companies to operate more easily. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We don’t have regulatory clarity. So there are now 80 lawsuits around the AI world. So it’s going to be just who has more lawyers. And that’s going to end up with just a few gigantic players. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, I’m actually so surprised that he’s pro-AI. We’ve talked a lot about how AI has ushered in this era where everything is essentially editable. So yeah, for somebody who’s so preoccupied with the preservation and accurate recording of history, I was surprised that he’d be so on board with technology that seems to be like the antithesis of that in some ways. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. One thing that is clear is that the outcomes of these AI lawsuits could impact the Internet Archive because they’re both about the enforcement of copyright law. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right, it seems like there’s this trade-off where if you want a free and accessible internet where information is free and accessible, you also have to expect it to be scrapable. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">100%. And the Internet Archive does similar kinds of scraping techniques that AI companies do, like you said. Overall, it seems that he thinks that’s a trade-off worth making. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so we have the Internet Archive, this organization that provides all these public services that the internet has become dependent on. And we also have this massive lawsuit that threatens to shut the organization down. I mean, it feels like we’re in a moment where that possibility is more concerning than ever. We have political turbulence, disinformation, these new AI technologies that are making it harder and harder to get the truth. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wait Morgan, Morgan… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you think that’s a new tab? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, you know what? You’re so right, Chris. Do you wanna do the honors? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I would love to. Let’s open a new tab. What happens if the Internet Archive goes away? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We talked about this at the top of the episode, but the Internet Archive plays such a critical role in our information ecosystem. And like Brewster says, our ability to go back and check the record. I mean, that’s what we lose when we lose the Internet Archive. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s such an important issue, especially right now. Brewster says that after each presidential term, they go through and catalog all of the government websites, including the ones we talked about earlier. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We have, since the year 2004, gone and done an end of term crawl to go and record all the federal websites that we possibly can to go and download and preserve what it looked like before the change and then right away after the change. And are there changes? Yes. Are there always changes? Yes. Are there changes that you agree with? Depends on how you voted, but the idea of library is we’re there to preserve the record. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think the logical question is, what if it does shut down? What then? Has Brewster even entertained this idea? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I think it’s hard for him to go there. Like, this is his life’s work. But he has definitely thought about the threat that looms if our ability to preserve our understanding of the past goes away. So he references George Orwell’s dystopian vision of the future from the book 1984. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The image of the memory hole is just the idea that next to your desk is this hole that you can go and put the only copy of that newspaper in an incinerator and be able to change history is upon us. The average life of a web page is 100 days before it’s changed or deleted. If we do not actively collect them and preserve them and keep them accessible, we’re living in the memory whole universe of George Orwell. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, okay, is there any hope here? Is there only option to just give it and crawl into a memory hole and accept it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t think we have to accept the memory hole, and I certainly hope that we don’t. But I’ll wrap up with an observation about Brewster himself. So what struck me about him the most was he just has this unrelenting optimism. He seems to truly love what he does, and he believes in it so strongly, and he’s cultivated this team around him that really shares in that vision. So, even with the looming threat of this extinction-level lawsuit coming up from the music publishers, it’s like he can’t quite bring himself to imagine that the Internet Archive could really go away. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, I think we’re doing fine. I think that there might be pieces of the Internet Archive that are chiseled away by very powerful interests, but the idea of a library or even just the Internet Archive as an organization has got lots of support. So, can the Internet Archive go away? Yes. Would it be a bad thing, I would think so. But I think the real issues are going to be whether the legislatures and the judiciary go and side with people’s access to information in some way or another. We’ll see that play out over the next 25 years of the Internet Archive’s life. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For Brewster, it’s about the Internet Archive, of course, but it’s also so much more. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Brewster Kahle:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t know the words exactly, but in every librarian’s mind, those who control the past control the present, those who control the present control the future. The idea of a library is part of an ecosystem of how society remembers. That’s how it thinks of itself. If you were to erase the Internet Archive and the libraries, which is in many ways happening now, then we will live in a danger of having people be able to recast what happened. Oh, as a society that believes in universal education and the fulfillment of individual possibility, we just can’t let that happen. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So are you ready to close these tabs? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Let’s close these tabs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios and is reported and hosted by me, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Morgan Sung\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Our producer is Maya Cueva. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Chris Egusa\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> is our Senior Editor. Jen Chien is KQED’s Director of Podcasts and helps edit the show. Original music and sound design by \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Chris Egusa\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Additional music by APM. Mixing, mastering and additional sound design by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad and Alana Walker. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager, and Holly Kernan is our Chief Content Officer. Support for this program comes from Birong Hu and supporters of the KQED Studios Fund. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco Northern California Local. Keyboard sounds were recorded on my purple and pink Dust Silver K84 wired mechanical keyboard with Gateron Red switches. If you have feedback or a topic you think we should cover, hit us up at CloseAllTabs@kqed.org. Follow us on Instagram at CloseAllTabsPod. And if you’re enjoying the show, give us a rating on Apple Podcasts or whatever platform you use. Thanks for listening!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"title": "Waymo Robotaxis - Uneasiness and Vandalism",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Self-driving Waymo robotaxis have become a familiar sight in cities like San Francisco and Los Angeles, but not everyone is happy about that. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">These “ghost-like” autonomous vehicles have made a lot of people uneasy, some even going as far as to vandalize the cars. But what’s behind this hostility? In this episode, Morgan speaks with \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Bloomberg\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> journalist Ellen Huet and robot law professor Ryan Calo to explore the rise of Waymo vandalism and its roots in our collective anxiety over artificial intelligence. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7694102813\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Guests:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.ellenhuet.com/\">Ellen Huet\u003c/a>, Features writer at Bloomberg News\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003ca href=\"https://ischool.uw.edu/people/faculty/profile/rcalo\">Ryan Calo\u003c/a>, Professor of Law at University of Washington\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Further reading:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-12-06/waymo-s-expansion-spurs-some-rage-against-the-self-driving-cars\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Waymo’s Expansion Provokes Anxieties of AI Takeover\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> – Ellen Huet, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Bloomberg\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003ca href=\"https://qz.com/robotaxi-tesla-uber-lyft-waymo-mobileye-texas-1851759608\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The next big robotaxi push is almost here\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> — Harri Weber, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Quartz \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003ca href=\"https://slate.com/technology/2018/03/the-deadly-uber-self-driving-car-crash-is-just-the-beginning.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The Courts Can Handle the Deadly Uber Self-Driving Car Crash. But that doesn’t mean the law is ready for autonomous vehicles.\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> — Ryan Calo, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Slate\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/good-robot-bad-robot-jo-ann-oravec/1141932639\">Good Robot, Bad Robot: Dark and Creepy Sides of Robotics, Autonomous Vehicles, and AI\u003c/a> — Jo Ann Oravec, Professor at the University of Wisconsin\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\">Follow us on Instagram\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003c/h2>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Do we look like influencers right now? Is this embarrassing to be walking up to a Waymo? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This is me and my friend \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Harri Weber\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> booking my first ride in a Waymo. It’s a self -driving car service. Some people also call them robo-taxis. Wait, I think I have to unlock it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Oh, there we go. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">For Morgan? No one’s going to respond. Waymo’s are, again, totally self -driving. There’s no human in the front seat. Hello from Waymo. As we get going, just give us one minute to cover a few… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Oh god. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I invited Harry because she’s also a tech journalist and she covers the future of cars. She recently wrote about the expansion of robo -taxis for courts. And also, we both had a craving for deli sandwiches from this one spot with terrible street parking. So why not take a Waymo? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There’s no one behind the wheel. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Is there a real need for the steering wheel? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Literally, I don’t see any purpose for it, but for whatever reason, there’s, you know, national laws require this steering wheel to still be there. It’s a little ghostly though, right? It’s nudging us around, it’s keeping us in the lane. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Waymo’s are something of a tourist attraction in California. My cousins always wanna take one whenever they come to visit me. But honestly, ever since Waymo’s launch a few months ago in Los Angeles, where Harri and I live, I’ve been pretty hesitant to take them. Part of it is, yeah, I don’t really trust a robot to drive me around, especially not through a very busy intersection in Koreatown during rush hour. But that’s where this car picked us up. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">These things aren’t perfect. Something could go wrong while we’re driving or while it’s moving us around. But Waymo’s claim based on its own data is that it is a lot safer than a human driver. I think that you’re probably more likely to find that they’re a nuisance than they are dangerous. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But despite their great track record when it comes to safety, I feel like Waymo mishaps are always going viral. Like a couple of weeks ago, there was a video of a Waymo in San Francisco, ignoring a public works crew and driving straight through a sinkhole. And then there was a video of a guy in Arizona who called a Waymo to take him to the airport, but got stuck in a parking lot. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Video Clip 1: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I’m in a Waymo car. This car is just going in circles. I got my seatbelt on, I can’t get out the car. Has this been hacked? What’s going on? I feel like I’m in the movies. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Waymos make me feel a little uneasy, but it’s really other people’s reactions to Waymos that makes me nervous about being in one. Even getting in, in front of that coffee shop, did you feel self -conscious? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, yeah, it felt a little uncool. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I felt so deeply uncool getting in. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think something flipped when Google was first developing a driverless car. I think there was actually like a cool factor going, or maybe I was just that uncool that I thought it was cool. But tech criticism has evolved a lot since then. And so now we’re in this car and it does feel a little bit like we are maybe class traitors. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And it’s not just the uncool factor. Public reaction to Waymos has turned violent. Like this incident in San Francisco, where a bunch of guys started spray painting a Waymo while a group of women was inside. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Video Clip 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Why are you attacking us? Connecting to writer support. Call may be recorded. Oh my God. Oh my god! Holy shit! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There is also a recent viral video of people swarming a Waymo in Los Angeles. One of the guys in the video so gracefully leaps into the air and drop kicks the passenger door right off the hinges, while another person beats the Waymo’s windshield with a ripped off piece of its own front bumper. To be clear, it doesn’t seem like any living person has been hurt in any of these incidents, unless you count getting a little car sick. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Video Clip 1: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, I got a flight to catch. Why is this thing going in a circle? I’m getting dizzy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But to a lot of people, including myself, I’ll be honest, something about seeing robots do a human task just does not feel right. And clearly, it triggers some deep-seated instinct to attack. So what is behind this recent outburst of aggression against Waymos? Is it just that destroying them makes really good content that’s bound to go viral? Or is it our collective anxiety over the state of tech right now? This is Close All Tabs. I’m \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Morgan Sung\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, tech journalist and your chronically online friend, here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Let’s get into it. People are justifiably jaded against Silicon Valley and the idea of a robot takeover would make anyone nervous. But why take it out on Waymo? All right, we’re gonna kick this off like we usually do. A new tab, Waymo Vandalism. We’re gonna talk to \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Ellen Huet\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. She covers technology and Silicon Valley and startup culture for Bloomberg, or as she puts it, all things at the intersection of tech and humans. And she wrote about how Waymo’s recent expansion provoked so -called AI anxiety. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ellen Huet:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">as long as these cars have been around in their various iterations, so probably over the last decade or so, people have reacted to them with suspicion and at times with violence. Like even back in 2018 when early Waymo vehicles were being tested in Arizona, people threw rocks at them, people like attacked the cars. Even if these cases are rare, it has been somewhat consistent that people react to robot cars at times with anger or violence or like attempting to kind of outsmart them. You know, there are early stories of people who figured out that you could confuse autonomous cars by putting a traffic cone on the hood of the car. Right, I’ve seen that. And I – Yeah, and like, there’s clearly some human impulse to try to almost like assert agency or control over this vehicle that, you know, in some existential sense is kind of a threat. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I have to wonder how much product design plays a role in ensuring that people are more receptive to these cars. I mean, I’m thinking of, you know, that 2000s movie, Herbie Fully Loaded, how it’s like a cutesy little buggy. And if I saw that driving around, I wouldn’t want to, like, beat that up. But when I see, like, a Cybertruck, I’m like, oh, fight or flight, activated. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ellen Huet:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I guarantee lots of designers have spent a lot of time and energy thinking about this question. I remember, it must have been a decade ago, you know, I was a tech reporter, I was working at Forbes and I was invited to take a test drive in an early autonomous car. And what I remember most is that those early cars were designed to look so cute. Like it was like a little gumdrop shaped car and it was white and like its headlights We’re kind of that like. oval shape to make it look like, you know, like these cute little cartoon eyes. And yeah, I guarantee that designers and engineers spent a lot of time thinking about how to make this threatening-ish technology seem as cute and approachable as possible. But yeah, Waymo’s are obviously like kind of just like a normal-looking car. My guess is it’s not coincidence that they’re all white. maybe people associate that with, like, sort of angelic energy or something. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But let’s talk about what’s at the root of this feeling that a lot of people have when confronted with a robot doing a human job. That is a new tab. Ready? Waymo and AI anxiety. Okay, so a lot of this anger against Waymo’s is due to the very real risk of job loss as robo-taxis begin replacing human drivers. But it’s also bigger than that. AI is moving into a lot of areas besides cars. In her story about this spike in Waymo vandalism, Ellen cited University of Wisconsin professor Jo Anne Oravec, who said that a lot of people are just not really comfortable with the realization that something else is intelligent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ellen Huet:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think people sometimes direct their general anxiety about, like, job displacement from AI toward Waymos just because these are objects that exist in the physical world and that you can actually smash the windshield of a Waymo car in the way that you can’t quite attack ChatGPT, right? Like, I think in some sense they’re at a disadvantage by simply being, like, a physical object. And something that you are reminded of every time, you know, one drives by. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And the cars have also done things that are genuinely annoying. Like in San Francisco, there was this cluster of Waymo cars that had gotten trapped in a honking war with each other. So they were like up at the middle of the night, you know, it’s like 4:30 in the morning. And neighbors who were trying to sleep near wherever these cars are gathered were being woken up at night by the sound of all of these cars honking at each other. And like in the most nonsensical way. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The term AI can mean a lot of different things. Autonomous vehicles like Waymo do use artificial intelligence. They use cameras to see, they’re trained to recognize objects and calculate the distance between them. But it’s pretty different from how a generative AI tool like ChatGPT works, or how other AI generators work to produce images, videos, and music. But to a lot of people, the anxiety is the same. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ellen Huet:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think what makes people have this reaction, regardless of what type of AI it is, is that these products are being designed to do actions and take on jobs and responsibilities that used to be solely the jurisdiction of humans, right? So it used to be like only people could see and drive and manipulate a car and now we can see that a human is not needed to do that. And it used to be that a human was needed to provide half of a conversation, you couldn’t have that, you know, without another person on the other side of the line. Now, that’s no longer true. So I think what we’re seeing is, even though the technology is different, in some cases and in some ways, the human reaction to it is the same. Because I think it’s provoking the same question of, well, where do I belong in this world where this thing that I used to do can be done by a non-human entity. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There’s a Waymo ad. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Waymo Advertisement: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Well, it’s finally happening. The robots, they’re coming. Maybe that’s a good thing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And like, Waymo’s clearly playing into people’s concerns about the robots, but putting like this positive spin on it. What do you think? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ellen Huet:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I mean, an ad like that makes me laugh because I just imagine, I wish I could be a fly on the wall in the marketing discussions that led to that copy because I’m sure they were like, guys, we have to address the fact that some people are scared of this, but let’s make it cheeky, let’s make it funny. There are researchers out there who study human-robot relations and some of the things that they explained to me were like these human-like. objects that can move with some intelligence in our world feel existentially unsettling to us because we don’t know where we fall in the pecking order anymore. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And don’t forget, we’ve been consuming so much sci-fi about how super advanced robots can totally disrupt our way of life. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>I, Robot: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Robots don’t feel fear. They don’t feel anything. They don’t get hungry. They don’t sleep. I do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>M3gan: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Megan, turn off. Are you sure? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>2001: A Space Odyssey: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Open the pod bay doors, Hal. I’m sorry, Dave. I’m afraid I can’t do that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This pop culture fear of artificial intelligence and robots taking over has been around for a while, but it hasn’t been limited to the screen. Physical attacks on robots have been happening for over a decade. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ellen Huet:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A classic example is the story of Hitchbot. And the story of Hitchbot starts back in 2013 when a group of researchers decided they wanted to try to answer the question, can robots trust humans? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>News Anchor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Hitchbot will be depending on the kindness and the curiosity of strangers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So Hitchbot was this little humanoid robot that couldn’t really do much, but it was on a mission to hitchhike across Canada. It had a stocky, cylindrical body and goofy arms and legs made out of pool noodles. Its head had an LED panel with a little smiley face. Hitchbot couldn’t move on its own. It could only recognize human speech and engage in basic conversations, mostly to ask bystanders for help. It also had a GPS and took pictures of its surroundings every 20 minutes so that researchers could keep tabs on it. I mean, it was pretty adorable. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ellen Huet:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And on its first few journeys, everything went fine. Like, people really got excited about this idea and wanted to contribute to helping the robot get from point A to point B. So Hitchbot traveled across Canada and traveled around Europe. And then in 2015, Hitchbot tried to do a cross-country trip across the United States and started in Boston. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But Hitchbot only made it to Philadelphia, where it was tragically attacked and decapitated. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Philly Man 1: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This is the bench Hitchbot was killed on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Philly Man 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Oh really? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Philly Man 1: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You know the story of Hitchbot? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Philly Man 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, yeah, it made it around the world and it died.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Philly Man 1: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It didn’t make it around the world because it died in Philadelphia. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ellen Huet:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Maybe they wanted to reassert their power or dominance over a human-like object and feel secure in their place as humans. But yeah, I think the story of Hitchbot tells us a lot about the psychology of humans versus robots. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Right. And that Waymos may not be ready for Philly yet. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ellen Huet:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Seems possible. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">OK, clearly, there’s something here about robots that makes us uncomfortable. People don’t always respond well to things that look a little too human or act kind of human, but aren’t quite human. So aside from making the cars cuter in hopes that people won’t attack them, is there anything else Waymo can do? When I scroll past one of these videos of someone spray painting one of the cars…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Video Clip 3: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Why are you attacking us? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Or blocking its way. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Video Clip 4: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Get out of the way! Move! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Or, worst case scenario, harassing someone inside, which did happen in San Francisco. With these videos, I’ve always wondered, why can’t the car just back up and drive away? Any human driver would. We’ll get into that and some other very thorny questions after this break. As this technology progresses, what are the implications of robots making their own decisions in these very high-stakes situations? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But that is a new tab. “The ethics of self-driving cars.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">To dig into this, I called up \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Ryan Calo\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. He’s a legal scholar and a professor at the University of Washington School of Law. And his specialty? Robot law. So he had his own theory about what makes Waymo’s so attractive to vandalize. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ryan Calo:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It’s the fact that they’re doing something transgressive where they’re, you know, they are of course vandalizing like an entity, an agent, but very much falls short of doing violence to a human being. Obviously these same people wouldn’t run up to a human being or a human cab driver and spray paint them. But the point of the matter is that, you know, there is this unease about these technologies, has to do with their novelty, has to do with their being too close to being these anthropomorphic agents. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">By anthropomorphic, Ryan means having human -like characteristics, even if it isn’t actually human. Yeah, I live in L.A., which has horrendous traffic, and so I watch a Waymo, try to make a U-turn, and get cut off at every possible opportunity, and I feel bad for it. What’s going on with that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ryan Calo:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It’s hard not to empathize, right? The fact is, is that human beings are quite bad at categorizing robots as either things or people. And the more anthropomorphic a technology is, the harder that is. So what’s really interesting about Waymo is, apparently, it’s associated as much with being a car as it is with being an entity. I always thought that if the vandalism were occurring inside the car, right? So sometimes people vandalize the interior of a Waymo because they’re just there by themselves, seemingly, Right? And it’s one thing to put a camera there, but if you were to put like an anthropomorphic robot driver in the Waymo that looked back at you when you get in to say, “Hey, where can I take you?” And also could be, was visible. Like when you saw the Waymo trying to make a U -turn, you saw like a person in there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It’s struggling. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ryan Calo:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Whatever it was, it’s struggling. Or when somebody went to vandalize this thing, cause it to crash, you know, cause it to shut down, like vandalize it. And there’s this android in there looking at you that looks like a person. I think the outcome would be different. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Ryan’s theory is that because Waymo’s don’t resemble any living thing, it’s easier to justify being violent. And sure, passengers would probably be creeped out by a robot doll in the driver’s seat, but maybe people would be discouraged from attacking it because there’s another human-ish thing there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ryan Calo:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There’s this concept called the uncanny valley. The deal is, it’s a valley, is that appreciation of the robot goes up and up and up and up and up and up and up, the more anthropomorphic it becomes, but then suddenly when it gets super close to actually like a human, it precipitously drops before coming back if it’s completely like a human, right? That’s the valley. Now, Waymo cars… They do not look like people, right? So they really are very far down on that curve. They’re more thrilling to vandalize than a mailbox. I just don’t see it happening with something that felt more like a person. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. You have written about the legal quandaries of self-driving cars, and when they first started hitting the road about five or so years ago, people were mostly worried about passenger safety and crashes. And it seems like companies like Waymo were maybe not so prepared for, like, the irate protesters?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ryan Calo:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If you want to talk specifically about vandalism, this has messed up people working in AI and robotics for a long time, and so it shouldn’t really have surprised Waymo. I don’t know how one guards against it, right? Think about, Morgan, do you recall the time when Microsoft released that chatbot called Tay? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Oh my god. Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ryan Calo:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Microsoft trains this chatbot early. This is pre-OpenAI and so on, and they released this Twitter-based chatbot that’s supposed to learn how to interact. Within an hour, there are these people, trolls on the Internet, getting it to say all kinds of racist and terrible things. They end up having to take the chatbot down. When the company was asked about “Why did this happen?” They’re like, “Well, we just didn’t anticipate that folks would do this,” unfortunately. The truth is about technology, especially like new emerging technology, you just don’t know how it’s going to play out in society. In fact, this leads some law professors like myself, to conclude that technology is a particularly difficult thing to regulate, because you don’t know how it’s going to play out in advance. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Back in 2018, Ryan wrote an essay in Slate about whether the law was ready for self-driving cars. And in it, he refutes a common critique of this technology that has to do with the old philosophical dilemma known as the trolley problem. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The trolley problem is this thought experiment about making decisions. You’ve got a train chugging along a track and it’s heading toward five people. But you, the decision maker, can flip a switch and direct the train to another track. Here’s the twist. There’s another single person stuck to that other track. So do you flip the switch? Save five people, but by making that decision, kill another? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This is the kind of thought experiment people love to refer to when puzzling over the morality of autonomous vehicles and other forms of AI. It’s the assumption that self -driving cars will have to make the same kinds of moral decisions. But Ryan says the engineers of these vehicles, and we as a public, should worry less about these philosophical hypotheticals and more about the practical real-life situations that these cars might face. Programming a moral compass is still up for debate. But programming object recognition is way more realistic. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ryan Calo:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Just imagine that a driverless car is always gonna be better than a person at avoiding a stroller in a parking lot. Always better because it’s better sensors, better response times, whatever. And the driverless car is also always gonna be better than a human being in avoiding a shopping cart, okay? But what happens if a driverless car encounters a shopping cart and a stroller at the same time. Imagine that the car confused about what to do and not able to differentiate between these two objects ends up making the wrong decision. Well, the headline reads, “Robot car kills baby to save groceries.” That’s the end of driverless cars in America, if that happens. So the thing that’s fascinating, with driverless car liability is it actually really matters the fact that driverless cars are going to mess up in ways that humans wouldn’t, even if they mess up less overall. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So, Ryan, as an expert in robot law, do you think driverless cars will have rights at some point, the way that humans do when they get into an accident? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ryan Calo:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What I will say is that we are very far from a situation where AI or robots will be able to claim rights the way that people have them. And even though some doomsayers claim that AI is going to wake up and kill everybody, you know, like the first time I see a presentation where like PowerPoint works perfectly, that will be when I worry about, you know, AV before AI. Like we’re just very far away from getting to that level of sophistication. Yeah but one day maybe, and at that time we’re really going to have to have an overhaul or a sea change in the law because suddenly there will be an entity that has rights and responsibilities but is not like us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The robot takeover is not going to happen anytime soon, but the friction between humans and these non-human counterparts, that’s only going to increase as AI creeps more and more into our lives. I’m gonna be honest, I thought that ride I took with my friend Harry was actually really nice. It was a nice temperature in there, the AC was going, there were lo -fi beats playing at such a reasonable volume. It didn’t smell weird. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There’s part of me that’s a little disappointed because, you know, I’m a little bit of a hater and so I want, I want to drive through cement. I want that to, I want to be the one who gets to, gets to like roll their eyes at these things that are sort of just. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I know! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Inexplicably irksome. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Are we getting Waymo pilled? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We’re getting Waymo pilled. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Oh god. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I just don’t, I don’t wanna give in. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Waymo Voice: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Pull the handle twice to exit. The first pull unlocks. The second opens the door. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Okay, we’re pulling up to the curb now. There’s an older man at the crosswalk kind of just glaring this Waymo down and I feel really weird. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The deep shame, the shame! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I have to admit, it would have been great content if something wild did happen during my first Waymo ride. But like the majority of rides, it was pretty uneventful. It almost felt normal. And maybe that’s the real robot takeover. It’s the gradual, boring replacement of our everyday human interactions. For now, let’s close all these tabs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios and is reported and hosted by me, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Morgan Sung\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. Our producer is Maya Cueva. Chris Egusa is our senior editor. Jen Chien is KQED’s director of podcasts and helps edit the show. Sound Design by Maya Cueva. Original music by Chris Egusa with additional music by APM. Mixing and mastering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad and Alana Walker. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager, and Holly Kernan is our Chief Content Officer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Support for this program comes from Birong Hu and supporters of the KQED Studios Fund. Some members of the KQED Podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco Northern California Local. Keyboard sounds were recorded on my purple and pink Dust Silver K84 wired mechanical keyboard with Gateron Red switches. If you have feedback or a topic you think we should cover, hit us up at closealltabs@kqed.org. Follow us on Instagram at CloseAllTabsPod. And if you’re enjoying the show, give us a rating on Apple Podcasts or whatever platform you use. Thanks for listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"description": "Self-driving Waymo robotaxis have become a familiar sight in cities like San Francisco and Los Angeles, but not everyone is happy about that. These “ghost-like” autonomous vehicles have made a lot of people uneasy, some even going as far as to vandalize the cars. But what’s behind this hostility? In this episode, Morgan speaks with Bloomberg journalist Ellen Huet and robot law professor Ryan Calo to explore the rise of Waymo vandalism and its roots in our collective anxiety over artificial intelligence. ",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Self-driving Waymo robotaxis have become a familiar sight in cities like San Francisco and Los Angeles, but not everyone is happy about that. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">These “ghost-like” autonomous vehicles have made a lot of people uneasy, some even going as far as to vandalize the cars. But what’s behind this hostility? In this episode, Morgan speaks with \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Bloomberg\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> journalist Ellen Huet and robot law professor Ryan Calo to explore the rise of Waymo vandalism and its roots in our collective anxiety over artificial intelligence. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7694102813\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Guests:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.ellenhuet.com/\">Ellen Huet\u003c/a>, Features writer at Bloomberg News\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003ca href=\"https://ischool.uw.edu/people/faculty/profile/rcalo\">Ryan Calo\u003c/a>, Professor of Law at University of Washington\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Further reading:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-12-06/waymo-s-expansion-spurs-some-rage-against-the-self-driving-cars\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Waymo’s Expansion Provokes Anxieties of AI Takeover\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> – Ellen Huet, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Bloomberg\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003ca href=\"https://qz.com/robotaxi-tesla-uber-lyft-waymo-mobileye-texas-1851759608\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The next big robotaxi push is almost here\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> — Harri Weber, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Quartz \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003ca href=\"https://slate.com/technology/2018/03/the-deadly-uber-self-driving-car-crash-is-just-the-beginning.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The Courts Can Handle the Deadly Uber Self-Driving Car Crash. But that doesn’t mean the law is ready for autonomous vehicles.\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> — Ryan Calo, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Slate\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/good-robot-bad-robot-jo-ann-oravec/1141932639\">Good Robot, Bad Robot: Dark and Creepy Sides of Robotics, Autonomous Vehicles, and AI\u003c/a> — Jo Ann Oravec, Professor at the University of Wisconsin\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\">Follow us on Instagram\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003c/h2>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Do we look like influencers right now? Is this embarrassing to be walking up to a Waymo? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This is me and my friend \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Harri Weber\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> booking my first ride in a Waymo. It’s a self -driving car service. Some people also call them robo-taxis. Wait, I think I have to unlock it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Oh, there we go. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">For Morgan? No one’s going to respond. Waymo’s are, again, totally self -driving. There’s no human in the front seat. Hello from Waymo. As we get going, just give us one minute to cover a few… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Oh god. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I invited Harry because she’s also a tech journalist and she covers the future of cars. She recently wrote about the expansion of robo -taxis for courts. And also, we both had a craving for deli sandwiches from this one spot with terrible street parking. So why not take a Waymo? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There’s no one behind the wheel. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Is there a real need for the steering wheel? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Literally, I don’t see any purpose for it, but for whatever reason, there’s, you know, national laws require this steering wheel to still be there. It’s a little ghostly though, right? It’s nudging us around, it’s keeping us in the lane. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Waymo’s are something of a tourist attraction in California. My cousins always wanna take one whenever they come to visit me. But honestly, ever since Waymo’s launch a few months ago in Los Angeles, where Harri and I live, I’ve been pretty hesitant to take them. Part of it is, yeah, I don’t really trust a robot to drive me around, especially not through a very busy intersection in Koreatown during rush hour. But that’s where this car picked us up. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">These things aren’t perfect. Something could go wrong while we’re driving or while it’s moving us around. But Waymo’s claim based on its own data is that it is a lot safer than a human driver. I think that you’re probably more likely to find that they’re a nuisance than they are dangerous. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But despite their great track record when it comes to safety, I feel like Waymo mishaps are always going viral. Like a couple of weeks ago, there was a video of a Waymo in San Francisco, ignoring a public works crew and driving straight through a sinkhole. And then there was a video of a guy in Arizona who called a Waymo to take him to the airport, but got stuck in a parking lot. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Video Clip 1: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I’m in a Waymo car. This car is just going in circles. I got my seatbelt on, I can’t get out the car. Has this been hacked? What’s going on? I feel like I’m in the movies. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Waymos make me feel a little uneasy, but it’s really other people’s reactions to Waymos that makes me nervous about being in one. Even getting in, in front of that coffee shop, did you feel self -conscious? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, yeah, it felt a little uncool. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I felt so deeply uncool getting in. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think something flipped when Google was first developing a driverless car. I think there was actually like a cool factor going, or maybe I was just that uncool that I thought it was cool. But tech criticism has evolved a lot since then. And so now we’re in this car and it does feel a little bit like we are maybe class traitors. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And it’s not just the uncool factor. Public reaction to Waymos has turned violent. Like this incident in San Francisco, where a bunch of guys started spray painting a Waymo while a group of women was inside. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Video Clip 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Why are you attacking us? Connecting to writer support. Call may be recorded. Oh my God. Oh my god! Holy shit! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There is also a recent viral video of people swarming a Waymo in Los Angeles. One of the guys in the video so gracefully leaps into the air and drop kicks the passenger door right off the hinges, while another person beats the Waymo’s windshield with a ripped off piece of its own front bumper. To be clear, it doesn’t seem like any living person has been hurt in any of these incidents, unless you count getting a little car sick. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Video Clip 1: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, I got a flight to catch. Why is this thing going in a circle? I’m getting dizzy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But to a lot of people, including myself, I’ll be honest, something about seeing robots do a human task just does not feel right. And clearly, it triggers some deep-seated instinct to attack. So what is behind this recent outburst of aggression against Waymos? Is it just that destroying them makes really good content that’s bound to go viral? Or is it our collective anxiety over the state of tech right now? This is Close All Tabs. I’m \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Morgan Sung\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, tech journalist and your chronically online friend, here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Let’s get into it. People are justifiably jaded against Silicon Valley and the idea of a robot takeover would make anyone nervous. But why take it out on Waymo? All right, we’re gonna kick this off like we usually do. A new tab, Waymo Vandalism. We’re gonna talk to \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Ellen Huet\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. She covers technology and Silicon Valley and startup culture for Bloomberg, or as she puts it, all things at the intersection of tech and humans. And she wrote about how Waymo’s recent expansion provoked so -called AI anxiety. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ellen Huet:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">as long as these cars have been around in their various iterations, so probably over the last decade or so, people have reacted to them with suspicion and at times with violence. Like even back in 2018 when early Waymo vehicles were being tested in Arizona, people threw rocks at them, people like attacked the cars. Even if these cases are rare, it has been somewhat consistent that people react to robot cars at times with anger or violence or like attempting to kind of outsmart them. You know, there are early stories of people who figured out that you could confuse autonomous cars by putting a traffic cone on the hood of the car. Right, I’ve seen that. And I – Yeah, and like, there’s clearly some human impulse to try to almost like assert agency or control over this vehicle that, you know, in some existential sense is kind of a threat. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I have to wonder how much product design plays a role in ensuring that people are more receptive to these cars. I mean, I’m thinking of, you know, that 2000s movie, Herbie Fully Loaded, how it’s like a cutesy little buggy. And if I saw that driving around, I wouldn’t want to, like, beat that up. But when I see, like, a Cybertruck, I’m like, oh, fight or flight, activated. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ellen Huet:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I guarantee lots of designers have spent a lot of time and energy thinking about this question. I remember, it must have been a decade ago, you know, I was a tech reporter, I was working at Forbes and I was invited to take a test drive in an early autonomous car. And what I remember most is that those early cars were designed to look so cute. Like it was like a little gumdrop shaped car and it was white and like its headlights We’re kind of that like. oval shape to make it look like, you know, like these cute little cartoon eyes. And yeah, I guarantee that designers and engineers spent a lot of time thinking about how to make this threatening-ish technology seem as cute and approachable as possible. But yeah, Waymo’s are obviously like kind of just like a normal-looking car. My guess is it’s not coincidence that they’re all white. maybe people associate that with, like, sort of angelic energy or something. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But let’s talk about what’s at the root of this feeling that a lot of people have when confronted with a robot doing a human job. That is a new tab. Ready? Waymo and AI anxiety. Okay, so a lot of this anger against Waymo’s is due to the very real risk of job loss as robo-taxis begin replacing human drivers. But it’s also bigger than that. AI is moving into a lot of areas besides cars. In her story about this spike in Waymo vandalism, Ellen cited University of Wisconsin professor Jo Anne Oravec, who said that a lot of people are just not really comfortable with the realization that something else is intelligent. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ellen Huet:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think people sometimes direct their general anxiety about, like, job displacement from AI toward Waymos just because these are objects that exist in the physical world and that you can actually smash the windshield of a Waymo car in the way that you can’t quite attack ChatGPT, right? Like, I think in some sense they’re at a disadvantage by simply being, like, a physical object. And something that you are reminded of every time, you know, one drives by. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And the cars have also done things that are genuinely annoying. Like in San Francisco, there was this cluster of Waymo cars that had gotten trapped in a honking war with each other. So they were like up at the middle of the night, you know, it’s like 4:30 in the morning. And neighbors who were trying to sleep near wherever these cars are gathered were being woken up at night by the sound of all of these cars honking at each other. And like in the most nonsensical way. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The term AI can mean a lot of different things. Autonomous vehicles like Waymo do use artificial intelligence. They use cameras to see, they’re trained to recognize objects and calculate the distance between them. But it’s pretty different from how a generative AI tool like ChatGPT works, or how other AI generators work to produce images, videos, and music. But to a lot of people, the anxiety is the same. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ellen Huet:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I think what makes people have this reaction, regardless of what type of AI it is, is that these products are being designed to do actions and take on jobs and responsibilities that used to be solely the jurisdiction of humans, right? So it used to be like only people could see and drive and manipulate a car and now we can see that a human is not needed to do that. And it used to be that a human was needed to provide half of a conversation, you couldn’t have that, you know, without another person on the other side of the line. Now, that’s no longer true. So I think what we’re seeing is, even though the technology is different, in some cases and in some ways, the human reaction to it is the same. Because I think it’s provoking the same question of, well, where do I belong in this world where this thing that I used to do can be done by a non-human entity. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There’s a Waymo ad. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Waymo Advertisement: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Well, it’s finally happening. The robots, they’re coming. Maybe that’s a good thing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And like, Waymo’s clearly playing into people’s concerns about the robots, but putting like this positive spin on it. What do you think? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ellen Huet:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I mean, an ad like that makes me laugh because I just imagine, I wish I could be a fly on the wall in the marketing discussions that led to that copy because I’m sure they were like, guys, we have to address the fact that some people are scared of this, but let’s make it cheeky, let’s make it funny. There are researchers out there who study human-robot relations and some of the things that they explained to me were like these human-like. objects that can move with some intelligence in our world feel existentially unsettling to us because we don’t know where we fall in the pecking order anymore. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And don’t forget, we’ve been consuming so much sci-fi about how super advanced robots can totally disrupt our way of life. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>I, Robot: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Robots don’t feel fear. They don’t feel anything. They don’t get hungry. They don’t sleep. I do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>M3gan: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Megan, turn off. Are you sure? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>2001: A Space Odyssey: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Open the pod bay doors, Hal. I’m sorry, Dave. I’m afraid I can’t do that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This pop culture fear of artificial intelligence and robots taking over has been around for a while, but it hasn’t been limited to the screen. Physical attacks on robots have been happening for over a decade. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ellen Huet:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A classic example is the story of Hitchbot. And the story of Hitchbot starts back in 2013 when a group of researchers decided they wanted to try to answer the question, can robots trust humans? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>News Anchor: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Hitchbot will be depending on the kindness and the curiosity of strangers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So Hitchbot was this little humanoid robot that couldn’t really do much, but it was on a mission to hitchhike across Canada. It had a stocky, cylindrical body and goofy arms and legs made out of pool noodles. Its head had an LED panel with a little smiley face. Hitchbot couldn’t move on its own. It could only recognize human speech and engage in basic conversations, mostly to ask bystanders for help. It also had a GPS and took pictures of its surroundings every 20 minutes so that researchers could keep tabs on it. I mean, it was pretty adorable. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ellen Huet:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And on its first few journeys, everything went fine. Like, people really got excited about this idea and wanted to contribute to helping the robot get from point A to point B. So Hitchbot traveled across Canada and traveled around Europe. And then in 2015, Hitchbot tried to do a cross-country trip across the United States and started in Boston. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But Hitchbot only made it to Philadelphia, where it was tragically attacked and decapitated. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Philly Man 1: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This is the bench Hitchbot was killed on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Philly Man 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Oh really? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Philly Man 1: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You know the story of Hitchbot? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Philly Man 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah, yeah, it made it around the world and it died.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Philly Man 1: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It didn’t make it around the world because it died in Philadelphia. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ellen Huet:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Maybe they wanted to reassert their power or dominance over a human-like object and feel secure in their place as humans. But yeah, I think the story of Hitchbot tells us a lot about the psychology of humans versus robots. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Right. And that Waymos may not be ready for Philly yet. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ellen Huet:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Seems possible. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">OK, clearly, there’s something here about robots that makes us uncomfortable. People don’t always respond well to things that look a little too human or act kind of human, but aren’t quite human. So aside from making the cars cuter in hopes that people won’t attack them, is there anything else Waymo can do? When I scroll past one of these videos of someone spray painting one of the cars…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Video Clip 3: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Why are you attacking us? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Or blocking its way. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Video Clip 4: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Get out of the way! Move! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Or, worst case scenario, harassing someone inside, which did happen in San Francisco. With these videos, I’ve always wondered, why can’t the car just back up and drive away? Any human driver would. We’ll get into that and some other very thorny questions after this break. As this technology progresses, what are the implications of robots making their own decisions in these very high-stakes situations? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But that is a new tab. “The ethics of self-driving cars.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">To dig into this, I called up \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Ryan Calo\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. He’s a legal scholar and a professor at the University of Washington School of Law. And his specialty? Robot law. So he had his own theory about what makes Waymo’s so attractive to vandalize. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ryan Calo:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It’s the fact that they’re doing something transgressive where they’re, you know, they are of course vandalizing like an entity, an agent, but very much falls short of doing violence to a human being. Obviously these same people wouldn’t run up to a human being or a human cab driver and spray paint them. But the point of the matter is that, you know, there is this unease about these technologies, has to do with their novelty, has to do with their being too close to being these anthropomorphic agents. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">By anthropomorphic, Ryan means having human -like characteristics, even if it isn’t actually human. Yeah, I live in L.A., which has horrendous traffic, and so I watch a Waymo, try to make a U-turn, and get cut off at every possible opportunity, and I feel bad for it. What’s going on with that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ryan Calo:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It’s hard not to empathize, right? The fact is, is that human beings are quite bad at categorizing robots as either things or people. And the more anthropomorphic a technology is, the harder that is. So what’s really interesting about Waymo is, apparently, it’s associated as much with being a car as it is with being an entity. I always thought that if the vandalism were occurring inside the car, right? So sometimes people vandalize the interior of a Waymo because they’re just there by themselves, seemingly, Right? And it’s one thing to put a camera there, but if you were to put like an anthropomorphic robot driver in the Waymo that looked back at you when you get in to say, “Hey, where can I take you?” And also could be, was visible. Like when you saw the Waymo trying to make a U -turn, you saw like a person in there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">It’s struggling. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ryan Calo:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Whatever it was, it’s struggling. Or when somebody went to vandalize this thing, cause it to crash, you know, cause it to shut down, like vandalize it. And there’s this android in there looking at you that looks like a person. I think the outcome would be different. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Ryan’s theory is that because Waymo’s don’t resemble any living thing, it’s easier to justify being violent. And sure, passengers would probably be creeped out by a robot doll in the driver’s seat, but maybe people would be discouraged from attacking it because there’s another human-ish thing there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ryan Calo:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There’s this concept called the uncanny valley. The deal is, it’s a valley, is that appreciation of the robot goes up and up and up and up and up and up and up, the more anthropomorphic it becomes, but then suddenly when it gets super close to actually like a human, it precipitously drops before coming back if it’s completely like a human, right? That’s the valley. Now, Waymo cars… They do not look like people, right? So they really are very far down on that curve. They’re more thrilling to vandalize than a mailbox. I just don’t see it happening with something that felt more like a person. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yeah. You have written about the legal quandaries of self-driving cars, and when they first started hitting the road about five or so years ago, people were mostly worried about passenger safety and crashes. And it seems like companies like Waymo were maybe not so prepared for, like, the irate protesters?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ryan Calo:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If you want to talk specifically about vandalism, this has messed up people working in AI and robotics for a long time, and so it shouldn’t really have surprised Waymo. I don’t know how one guards against it, right? Think about, Morgan, do you recall the time when Microsoft released that chatbot called Tay? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Oh my god. Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ryan Calo:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Microsoft trains this chatbot early. This is pre-OpenAI and so on, and they released this Twitter-based chatbot that’s supposed to learn how to interact. Within an hour, there are these people, trolls on the Internet, getting it to say all kinds of racist and terrible things. They end up having to take the chatbot down. When the company was asked about “Why did this happen?” They’re like, “Well, we just didn’t anticipate that folks would do this,” unfortunately. The truth is about technology, especially like new emerging technology, you just don’t know how it’s going to play out in society. In fact, this leads some law professors like myself, to conclude that technology is a particularly difficult thing to regulate, because you don’t know how it’s going to play out in advance. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Back in 2018, Ryan wrote an essay in Slate about whether the law was ready for self-driving cars. And in it, he refutes a common critique of this technology that has to do with the old philosophical dilemma known as the trolley problem. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The trolley problem is this thought experiment about making decisions. You’ve got a train chugging along a track and it’s heading toward five people. But you, the decision maker, can flip a switch and direct the train to another track. Here’s the twist. There’s another single person stuck to that other track. So do you flip the switch? Save five people, but by making that decision, kill another? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This is the kind of thought experiment people love to refer to when puzzling over the morality of autonomous vehicles and other forms of AI. It’s the assumption that self -driving cars will have to make the same kinds of moral decisions. But Ryan says the engineers of these vehicles, and we as a public, should worry less about these philosophical hypotheticals and more about the practical real-life situations that these cars might face. Programming a moral compass is still up for debate. But programming object recognition is way more realistic. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ryan Calo:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Just imagine that a driverless car is always gonna be better than a person at avoiding a stroller in a parking lot. Always better because it’s better sensors, better response times, whatever. And the driverless car is also always gonna be better than a human being in avoiding a shopping cart, okay? But what happens if a driverless car encounters a shopping cart and a stroller at the same time. Imagine that the car confused about what to do and not able to differentiate between these two objects ends up making the wrong decision. Well, the headline reads, “Robot car kills baby to save groceries.” That’s the end of driverless cars in America, if that happens. So the thing that’s fascinating, with driverless car liability is it actually really matters the fact that driverless cars are going to mess up in ways that humans wouldn’t, even if they mess up less overall. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So, Ryan, as an expert in robot law, do you think driverless cars will have rights at some point, the way that humans do when they get into an accident? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ryan Calo:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What I will say is that we are very far from a situation where AI or robots will be able to claim rights the way that people have them. And even though some doomsayers claim that AI is going to wake up and kill everybody, you know, like the first time I see a presentation where like PowerPoint works perfectly, that will be when I worry about, you know, AV before AI. Like we’re just very far away from getting to that level of sophistication. Yeah but one day maybe, and at that time we’re really going to have to have an overhaul or a sea change in the law because suddenly there will be an entity that has rights and responsibilities but is not like us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The robot takeover is not going to happen anytime soon, but the friction between humans and these non-human counterparts, that’s only going to increase as AI creeps more and more into our lives. I’m gonna be honest, I thought that ride I took with my friend Harry was actually really nice. It was a nice temperature in there, the AC was going, there were lo -fi beats playing at such a reasonable volume. It didn’t smell weird. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">There’s part of me that’s a little disappointed because, you know, I’m a little bit of a hater and so I want, I want to drive through cement. I want that to, I want to be the one who gets to, gets to like roll their eyes at these things that are sort of just. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I know! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Inexplicably irksome. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Are we getting Waymo pilled? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We’re getting Waymo pilled. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Oh god. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I just don’t, I don’t wanna give in. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Waymo Voice: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Pull the handle twice to exit. The first pull unlocks. The second opens the door. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Okay, we’re pulling up to the curb now. There’s an older man at the crosswalk kind of just glaring this Waymo down and I feel really weird. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harri Weber:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The deep shame, the shame! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I have to admit, it would have been great content if something wild did happen during my first Waymo ride. But like the majority of rides, it was pretty uneventful. It almost felt normal. And maybe that’s the real robot takeover. It’s the gradual, boring replacement of our everyday human interactions. For now, let’s close all these tabs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios and is reported and hosted by me, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Morgan Sung\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. Our producer is Maya Cueva. Chris Egusa is our senior editor. Jen Chien is KQED’s director of podcasts and helps edit the show. Sound Design by Maya Cueva. Original music by Chris Egusa with additional music by APM. Mixing and mastering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad and Alana Walker. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager, and Holly Kernan is our Chief Content Officer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Support for this program comes from Birong Hu and supporters of the KQED Studios Fund. Some members of the KQED Podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco Northern California Local. Keyboard sounds were recorded on my purple and pink Dust Silver K84 wired mechanical keyboard with Gateron Red switches. If you have feedback or a topic you think we should cover, hit us up at closealltabs@kqed.org. Follow us on Instagram at CloseAllTabsPod. And if you’re enjoying the show, give us a rating on Apple Podcasts or whatever platform you use. Thanks for listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"headTitle": "Children of the Vlog | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The world of family vlogging is under scrutiny after the release of two new documentaries: HBO’s “An Update on Our Family” and Hulu’s “Devil in the Family: The Fall of Ruby Franke.” The attention around Myka Stauffer and Ruby Franke has brought up questions about the dark side of family channels, and whether child influencers should have more say in their internet presence. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this episode, Morgan takes us through the family channel industry and the lack of legal protections for children online. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ll hear from a former “mommy blogger kid” who’s fighting for the next generation of internet child stars, as well as Fortesa Latifi, a journalist who covers the industry. Together we’ll explore how posting and consuming this kind of content impacts the children growing up on our screens. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\">Follow us on Instagram\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7253313109\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003c/h2>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Caymi Barrett:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think when I first started to notice that like, hey, this is kind of really weird and like we need to kind of tone it down is when I was hit by a drunk driver. Like immediately my mom pulled out her camera. The first responders were there. I was being strapped down to a stretcher because I had like a spinal injury and I was really scared. I was vomiting and my mom was just like in the back of the ambulance like taking pictures and taking little clips of everything going on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Caymi Barrett is 26 now, and the internet has always been part of her life. In the 2000s, her mom was a mommy blogger. And throughout her childhood, Caymi’s most vulnerable moments were posted online to thousands of strangers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Caymi Barrett:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s something I still just very vividly remember. I never know how to explain it other than just kind of like an out -of -body experience. I wanted my mom there to comfort me. I wanted my mom to hold my hand. I was experiencing so much fear and pain in silence because I was just in shock. I had a concussion and meanwhile, my mom was just taking pictures and like writing up a post about literally what had just happened. So it was probably like a five minute ambulance drive. From the time of the accident to the moment we got to the hospital, there was already one post up. And I remember a nurse came up to me and she asked me if I was in pain. And I just said, “No, I want my mom.” But she was at the foot of the bed making a Facebook post, like another update. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The mommy blogger scene of the early aughts laid the groundwork for family vlogging today. That’s vlogging with a V, as in like video blog. It’s an entire genre of content on YouTube and TikTok and Instagram. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Family Vlogger 1: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hello everyone and welcome back to my channel. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Family Vlogger 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey babies! Welcome back! My name is Bronte, for those of you who are new here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Family Vlogger 3: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Good morning. Let’s cook breakfast for 10, 10 year olds. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Family vlogs and momfluencers make up a multi -billion dollar industry. Like the mommy blogs that came before them, family channels are often an outlet for parents to share advice and open up about the very difficult realities of raising tiny humans. But when your entire livelihood revolves around making content about your kids, I’ll Caymi explain. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Caymi Barrett:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s caused a lot of paranoia, a lot of anxiety. There’s a lot of things that people don’t necessarily think about. And throughout the years, it’s been really hard to kind of navigate life with a non -consensual digital footprint. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Caymi was 15 then, and her mom had crossed the line plenty of times before. But this particular incident with a drunk driver changed everything for her. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Caymi Barrett:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After that, I just felt very exposed and I started to isolate myself a lot. So I had reconstructive surgery and I had a spinal injury and so I was prescribed some heavy narcotic pain medication and that was kind of how I just got through the rest of my teen years by isolating and unfortunately becoming addicted to substances because I just wanted to numb everything that was happening in my real life and then I had also no control of what was being posted on social media. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Caymi checked herself into rehab when she turned 18. Since then, she’s been working on rebuilding her relationship with her mom and also with the internet. That means protecting the kids who are going through what she went through. Caymi started speaking out about her own experience a few years ago on TikTok to raise awareness and advocate for the right to privacy for child influencers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Caymi Barrett:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I started seeing people talking about how these family channels don’t affect kids and it’s fine because they get all these free things, I just was like, “Hey, that’s actually really not the case. Like, it’s actually really hard to grow up with all of these things attached to your name.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Multiple states are trying to establish protections for kids who appear in their parents’ content. Caymi actually testified in some of those hearings. A few states have already passed laws about child influencers. On paper, the fact that there’s any legal protection for kids online is huge. But are these laws enforceable? And what gaps do they leave when it comes to regulating this massive content industry? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Close All Tabs. I’m \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Morgan Sung:\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, tech journalist and your chronically online friend, here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Let’s get into it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To understand the latest attempts to regulate it, we need to get into where this industry even started. New tab. How did family vlogging get so big? And to walk us through this issue, we’re calling up \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Fortesa Latifi\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. She’s been reporting on this world of family channels for years and is working on a book about child influencers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the first big family vlogging families really took off in the aughts. So I wanna say around like between 2006 to like 2010, that was when they first really started making a ton of money from YouTube. And I think part of the reason that the families that got in then were so successful is because it was not over-saturated yet. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So we had the early aughts of like, these are like the beginning of family vloggers and then the mid 2010s to late 2010s, that was kind of what I have seen as the golden age of family vlogging. What was that age like? What kind of content were they making? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Back in the day on YouTube, it was very much just like, “Come along with me as I get my six kids ready for school,” or like “This is the day in the life of a mom with like five kids.” And you’ll notice that’s changed over the years. Like on YouTube, things had to ratchet up a lot. It was a lot of challenges. It was a lot of kind of trying to like outdo each other. One video that sticks in mind for me is this one family, the Family Fun Pack. I think they have like seven or eight kids and they did like a “We’re gonna only eat a specific color food.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Family Fun Pack: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I have a challenge planned for the kids today. They may or may not like it, but I’m about to go tell them what it is right now. They have no idea. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So like this kid only could eat green food for a day, this kid could only eat purple food for a day. And it was just like these kind of like silly challenges. And then once there became more people in the space, you had to do more to get noticed. So things started getting more personal and people would post videos of their sick kids and like come along with me to the emergency room for little Joey and there’s videos of him crying and bleeding or whatever. And then there’s videos of young women talking about getting their menstrual cycles for the first time or getting the sex talk. Like I cannot tell you in the research of my book how many sex talk videos I stumbled upon from family bloggers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Family Vlogger 4: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t want them to learn about sex and how we get pregnant from just anybody. I don’t want them to learn from somebody at school. And then they also get kind of a memento to remind them as they get older about this special time when they learned about how we have babies. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I was just like, “Whoa, this is a little wild.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right. It seems like to get engagement, it’s almost incentivized to be increasingly intimate and personal. And I don’t, I mean, exploitative? Is that the right word? You know?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, I think a lot of people consider that the exact right word. In the research for my book, I talked to a bunch of family vloggers and I asked them what is the content that does the best and several of them told me if a kid is hurt or sick or upset, that does really well. And so, you know, that kind of feeds into its own little monster there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It seems like this pushback against family vloggers, this like conversation about protecting child influencers is relatively new. Like it’s only been in the last couple of years that people are actually questioning the ethics of this industry. It’s probably because there are particularly egregious cases of child abuse that came out of this industry. Can we talk about that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So there’s two cases that really stick out to me. And one is, I’m sure you’re familiar with the Stauffer case. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Myka Stauffer was a YouTuber who built a following with videos about cleaning tips, parenting, and then trying to get pregnant after a miscarriage. Back in 2016, Micah and her husband announced that they were in the process of adopting a disabled baby boy from China. They were already popular, but their views skyrocketed with the adoption videos. They made a lot of monetized content about their adopted son and his medical needs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Myka Stauffer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If anything, my child is not returnable. And we, without a doubt in our minds, we knew, no matter what state he came to us, that we would love him. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then, followers noticed that he stopped appearing in videos. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then she made this like tearful apology video basically saying that he was living with another family and that he wasn’t in their family anymore. And it kind of went viral as like this YouTube mom rehomed her adoptive son after making money off of him and she was still after he wasn’t living there still had videos on YouTube that were monetized about him. And so there was kind of this outcry. And so that was the first thing that I think really like planted the seed for people. And then the eight passengers and Ruby Franke, I don’t even wanna call it a scandal because it’s child abuse, it’s not a scandal, but that entire case. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what happened there? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, so Ruby Franke, her and her husband, Kevin, had this YouTube channel called 8 Passengers, and it was called 8 Passengers because they had six kids and so the eight of them. And they had over two million subscribers at their height. I kind of consider them to be family vlogging royalty at the time. They kind of faced this sort of cancelation where Ruby had posted a video where her son said that he hadn’t slept on a bed in seven months as punishment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>News Anchor 1: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She explained her teenage son Chad had been sleeping on a bean bag for months. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chad Franke: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was sleeping on a beanbag since October and they gave me my room back like two weeks ago. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And people were like, “Wait, wait, wait, what?” Like, everyone was like, thought that Ruby had been kind of like a strict mom, but then this kind of like pushed it over the edge. And so people started digging into like, what is going on with this family? And then a couple of years later, Ruby was arrested for aggravated child abuse. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>News Anchor 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A once popular parenting YouTuber, Ruby Franke, will spend up to 60 years in prison. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>News Anchor 3: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She pleaded guilty to numerous charges, including things like holding a child’s head underwater, putting her hand over a child’s mouth and nose so they couldn’t breathe, kicking a child while she was wearing boots. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so that was kind of the second thing. You had like Myka Stauffer and then you had Ruby Franke where people were like, “There is a darkness behind the perfect veneer of the YouTube vlogging family.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Parents are supposed to be responsible for protecting their children, but clearly that isn’t always happening with family vloggers in this very lucrative industry. So is there anything out there to protect these kids? I think that’s a new tab, Child Influencer Protections. So last year, California Governor Gavin Newsom actually signed two pieces of legislation that have to do with child influencers. The first expands something called the Coogan Law.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a 1939 law named after a silent film star named Jackie Coogan, who worked his entire childhood. And basically, by the time he was an adult, there was no money left for him. So now, California requires that 15 % of whatever a child performer earns is saved in a trust for when that child turns 18. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But until last year, the Coogan Law only applied to child actors, as in kids who are working on actual film or television sets. This expansion extends the law to child content creators. That includes vloggers, influencers, streamers, podcasters. Whenever a kid, or their family, is paid directly to post something online. It’s pretty straightforward. But California’s other law is unclear. Here’s Fortesa again to explain. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So SB 764 dictates that content creators who feature minor children in at least 30% of their content must set aside a proportionate percentage of the earnings from that content to be held in a trust account until the child is 18. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now you may be wondering what does proportionate percentage even mean? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I’ve reached out to lawyers to ask and experts what a proportionate percentage like what that really means in practice and I haven’t been able to get like a good solid answer. Like the worry here is that you would need like a forensic accountant who has a specialization in social media to even know the right amount of money that should have been saved for you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like I can’t imagine going back through maybe like a decade of like YouTube and TikTok videos and trying to calculate like, “How much was I in this video? 29%. Okay, and they made $6 ,000 off it.” It’s very complicated, but I don’t know that there’s a better way. I’m not saying I have a better idea. And I think that kind of speaks to the convoluted nature of both the industry and attempts to regulate the industry. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It doesn’t even touch on other protections for traditional child actors, like making sure they’re in school or that they’re allowed to take breaks. How do you even enforce something like that though? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t know. I think it’s so difficult because this work is happening largely in the home, right? Being a family vlogger, inherently your work is in your home and it is with your children and that’s really difficult. We know how this country feels about the government stepping in between parents and children. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right. So, how do these new laws in California compare to similar laws in other states? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So Illinois was first, Minnesota was second, and California was third. Illinois’s law is pretty similar to California’s law. Minnesota’s takes it a step further, and they have this clause that’s basically considered the right to be deleted. And so it states that upon reaching the age of 18, the former child influencer can request the deletion of content. I do think that that was Minnesota’s attempt to address the privacy concerns. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But it’s also like, I don’t know, I sound like a boomer when I say this, but I feel like once something is on the internet, it really is kind of on the internet forever, especially like with these famous kids. Like you see it with the eight passengers stuff, right? Like after Ruby was arrested for child abuse, their channel was taken off of YouTube. And I’ve asked family members and they didn’t delete it. So it seems that YouTube took it offline in the wake of this arrest. But you can still find clips everywhere. Like if you look up Ruby Frankie on TikTok, you can watch entire vlogs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, this content thrives on platforms like YouTube and Instagram and TikTok, but do you see these platforms taking any action to protect these kids? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, what’s in it for them, you know? Like, I think these are companies that make a lot of money off of content featuring influencer kids. Family vlogging is a multi -billion dollar industry. I don’t think that there’s any reason for them to step in when it is so lucrative for them. Like that’s not their job to think about the child. That’s the parents’ job. The platform’s job is to make money which they’re doing off of this content. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So social media platforms have no incentive to restrict family vlogging and the new laws aren’t foolproof, not to mention a mess to enforce. Like Fortesa mentioned, it’s on the parents to have their kids’ best interests at heart. Well, when it comes to influencers who make a living off of sharing almost every aspect of their lives, what does that even look like? The answer, after this break. Now back to the story. When it comes to influencers sharing their kids’ lives online, is the tide changing at all? Okay, new tab. Influencers taking kids offline. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ve noticed this in the last couple of years where huge influencers who built their considerable platforms off of showing their kids and sharing their life with their kids have reversed course. The biggest person that comes to mind for me is Maia Knight. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right. She was a single mom who had twins. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. Yeah. She would be holding both the babies and making bottles at the same time. It was just these very real videos. She got super famous. Got like 8 million followers on TikTok. And after a year or two, she decided, “I’m going to take my daughters off of TikTok and Instagram and everything.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maia Knight: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re toddlers now and I have decided to not show them anymore. I’m making a choice for my daughters to protect them. Am I going to lose followers? Yes I’m going to. Am I going to lose 8 million followers? I hope not. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And there was a huge amount of backlash to that. And it was fascinating because I think there were several camps. Some people were like, “How dare you? We love them. We’re their TikTok aunties. You can’t do this,” which like, parasocial. Yeah. And I’m sure I’ve talked to other huge creators who have taken their kids offline and they told me that reactions like that totally solidify their choice and they’re like, this is why I’m doing it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then there was another camp who were like, “Maya has been exploiting her kids and now that she has this huge like brand, she’s taking them off, but it’s too late.” Which like, I don’t really understand as a concept. It’s like, do you want that to happen or do you not? I think there’s this like purity test kind of thing. Like there’s this idea. among detractors that if you ever show your kid online at all, you are evil and immoral. And I totally do not believe that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then there are people who have become moms in their influencing careers and have never shown their kids at all. And that’s really fascinating to me as a reporter, because a few years ago there was never a question about whether an influencer would show their kid online or not. Like if you were having a baby, like that baby was gonna be in a ton of content. But now when a public facing influencer is pregnant, there is the question of like, “Which camp kind of are they gonna go into?” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right, I remember when family vloggers would announce that they were pregnant again, they would start an Instagram account for the fetus, post ultrasounds, they were posting the kid before they were even born. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, yeah, and narrating like the fetus’s thoughts and like \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, like I can’t wait to meet you all. It’s like that is a six-month-old fetus. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, no, that kind of stuff has definitely fallen out of favor. Although, I don’t want to make it seem as though the majority of influencers aren’t showing their kids because they are, definitely. But there is this growing contingent where they’re not. And this is even happening among regular people. It’s not only influencers, it’s regular people who have a couple hundred followers who are like, I don’t really want to put my kid on Instagram or on TikTok. It’s interesting because I’ll interview these parents and I’m like, why did you not want to put your kid online or why did you not want to announce your pregnancy? And they have like specific reasons like online footprint which again, we were not talking about a few years ago or like worries about AI, but there’s also just this like sense of like uneasiness and just being like, “Why would I?” Which is fascinating to me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, you just had a baby, so congratulations, by the way, and you also fell into that camp of like, not announcing your pregnancy, you kind of just hard launched with like a baby. How did you come to that decision to never post your child’s face online? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. You know, I thought about this a lot. And obviously I was doing like a lot of this reporting on influencer kids and like what their lives are like. And not that I’m an influencer in any way, but like I said, kind of the way that influencers live their lives trickles down to the rest of us, like plebeians. And so we were all kind of just becoming more aware of like privacy. And when I was pregnant, I… just had this gut feeling that I just didn’t want anyone who didn’t know me in real life to know. And even now, I feel so strongly about it that I don’t want her to be on the internet and that I don’t want information or photos of her to be on the internet. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I mean. There’s also a lot of discussion about whether or not you can talk about your kids online or write about parenting without exposing your kid. I mean, what are your thoughts on this? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I am very much trying to figure this out because I have benefited so much from the writing and the content of other moms specifically and like being able to watch really personal moments in their lives and have them talk about postpartum depression or their struggles with sleep training or whatever it is and like I have learned things about their kids. Like, I have benefited so much and I’m sure they benefited from sharing it. And I don’t think that we need to go back to a time when moms were not allowed to talk about what motherhood and parenthood is like. And I’m saying moms, because most parenthood content online is by moms. I’ve heard this from other creators too, is that they try to think, what will my kid think about this in five years, in 10 years, in 15 years? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’ve also talked to kids of those first mommy bloggers and – I’m not saying this is the experience of every kid of a mom blogger, but the ones that I’ve talked to are like, “It is incredible to read how my mom felt when she was raising me and what she thought.” And they have these like incredible records, you know? So I also, I don’t want to take it too far on one side either. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Can you speak to the way that this industry and just overarching culture is changing the relationships between kids and parents? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s just so complicated and obviously parents have to make choices for their kids that the kids might not agree with later. But I think how many choices has really just been exacerbated by the internet and by the way it’s able to change people’s lives. And that’s the thing is I hear from a lot of parents who are like, “My kid is begging me to start a YouTube channel, like my kid wants to be a YouTuber and influencer.” And like yeah, that I understand. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And like, from the kids point of view, like, why wouldn’t they want to, you know? But I think the parent has to make the best decision that they can at the time. And I think sometimes those decisions change, like you see with parents changing their minds later and taking their kids offline. And I think as a culture, just like generally, we need to be more accepting of people like changing their minds. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is one of those internet rabbit holes that ultimately just doesn’t have a single answer at the end. These laws are a start, but enacting real change also involves a larger cultural shift in the way that we consume and post content. Remember Caymi? She’s the former mommy blogger kid who grew up and became an advocate for child influencers. She thinks kids should be allowed to exist without a camera in their face. And if you’re an influencer kid, here’s her advice to you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Caymi Barrett:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As you get older, you’re gonna meet so many people who are so different from, your parents are so different from the people who have viewed you your entire childhood, and they’re going to see you for who you are instead of seeing you for what your parents posted. I think it’s really important to literally be a kid, like, by yourself, at school, even if you have a friend that you trust to talk to about this. It’s so hard carrying all of it on your shoulders alone, but you don’t have to. And I wish that I had known that as a kid. Yeah, we’re fighting for y’all. We’re not gonna stop. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For now, let’s close these tabs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios and is reported and hosted by me, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Morgan Sung\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Our Producer is Maya Cueva. Chris Egusa is our Senior Editor. Jen Chien is KQED’s Director of Podcasts and helps edit the show. Sound design by Maya Cueva and original music by Chris Egusa. Additional music by APM. Mixing and mastering by Brendan Willard. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad and Alana Walker. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager, and Holly Kernan is our Chief Content Officer. Support for this program comes from Birong Hu and supporters of the KQED Studios Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Keyboard sounds were recorded on my purple and pink Dustilver K84 wired mechanical keyboard with Gateron red switches. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you have any feedback or a topic you think we should cover, hit us up at CloseAllTabs@KQED.org. Follow us on Instagram at CloseAllTabsPod. And if you’re enjoying the show, give us a rating on Apple Podcasts or whatever platform you use. Thanks for listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"description": "The world of family vlogging is under scrutiny after the release of two new documentaries: HBO’s “An Update on Our Family” and Hulu’s “Devil in the Family: The Fall of Ruby Franke.” The attention around Myka Stauffer and Ruby Franke has brought up questions about the dark side of family channels, and whether child influencers should have more say in their internet presence. In this episode, Morgan takes us through the family channel industry and the lack of legal protections for children online. We’ll hear from a former “mommy blogger kid” who’s fighting for the next generation of internet child stars, as well as an expert who covers the industry. Together we’ll explore how posting and consuming this kind of content impacts the children growing up on our screens. ",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The world of family vlogging is under scrutiny after the release of two new documentaries: HBO’s “An Update on Our Family” and Hulu’s “Devil in the Family: The Fall of Ruby Franke.” The attention around Myka Stauffer and Ruby Franke has brought up questions about the dark side of family channels, and whether child influencers should have more say in their internet presence. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this episode, Morgan takes us through the family channel industry and the lack of legal protections for children online. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ll hear from a former “mommy blogger kid” who’s fighting for the next generation of internet child stars, as well as Fortesa Latifi, a journalist who covers the industry. Together we’ll explore how posting and consuming this kind of content impacts the children growing up on our screens. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\">Follow us on Instagram\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7253313109\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003c/h2>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Caymi Barrett:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think when I first started to notice that like, hey, this is kind of really weird and like we need to kind of tone it down is when I was hit by a drunk driver. Like immediately my mom pulled out her camera. The first responders were there. I was being strapped down to a stretcher because I had like a spinal injury and I was really scared. I was vomiting and my mom was just like in the back of the ambulance like taking pictures and taking little clips of everything going on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Caymi Barrett is 26 now, and the internet has always been part of her life. In the 2000s, her mom was a mommy blogger. And throughout her childhood, Caymi’s most vulnerable moments were posted online to thousands of strangers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Caymi Barrett:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s something I still just very vividly remember. I never know how to explain it other than just kind of like an out -of -body experience. I wanted my mom there to comfort me. I wanted my mom to hold my hand. I was experiencing so much fear and pain in silence because I was just in shock. I had a concussion and meanwhile, my mom was just taking pictures and like writing up a post about literally what had just happened. So it was probably like a five minute ambulance drive. From the time of the accident to the moment we got to the hospital, there was already one post up. And I remember a nurse came up to me and she asked me if I was in pain. And I just said, “No, I want my mom.” But she was at the foot of the bed making a Facebook post, like another update. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The mommy blogger scene of the early aughts laid the groundwork for family vlogging today. That’s vlogging with a V, as in like video blog. It’s an entire genre of content on YouTube and TikTok and Instagram. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Family Vlogger 1: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hello everyone and welcome back to my channel. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Family Vlogger 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey babies! Welcome back! My name is Bronte, for those of you who are new here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Family Vlogger 3: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Good morning. Let’s cook breakfast for 10, 10 year olds. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Family vlogs and momfluencers make up a multi -billion dollar industry. Like the mommy blogs that came before them, family channels are often an outlet for parents to share advice and open up about the very difficult realities of raising tiny humans. But when your entire livelihood revolves around making content about your kids, I’ll Caymi explain. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Caymi Barrett:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s caused a lot of paranoia, a lot of anxiety. There’s a lot of things that people don’t necessarily think about. And throughout the years, it’s been really hard to kind of navigate life with a non -consensual digital footprint. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Caymi was 15 then, and her mom had crossed the line plenty of times before. But this particular incident with a drunk driver changed everything for her. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Caymi Barrett:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After that, I just felt very exposed and I started to isolate myself a lot. So I had reconstructive surgery and I had a spinal injury and so I was prescribed some heavy narcotic pain medication and that was kind of how I just got through the rest of my teen years by isolating and unfortunately becoming addicted to substances because I just wanted to numb everything that was happening in my real life and then I had also no control of what was being posted on social media. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Caymi checked herself into rehab when she turned 18. Since then, she’s been working on rebuilding her relationship with her mom and also with the internet. That means protecting the kids who are going through what she went through. Caymi started speaking out about her own experience a few years ago on TikTok to raise awareness and advocate for the right to privacy for child influencers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Caymi Barrett:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When I started seeing people talking about how these family channels don’t affect kids and it’s fine because they get all these free things, I just was like, “Hey, that’s actually really not the case. Like, it’s actually really hard to grow up with all of these things attached to your name.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Multiple states are trying to establish protections for kids who appear in their parents’ content. Caymi actually testified in some of those hearings. A few states have already passed laws about child influencers. On paper, the fact that there’s any legal protection for kids online is huge. But are these laws enforceable? And what gaps do they leave when it comes to regulating this massive content industry? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Close All Tabs. I’m \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Morgan Sung:\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, tech journalist and your chronically online friend, here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Let’s get into it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To understand the latest attempts to regulate it, we need to get into where this industry even started. New tab. How did family vlogging get so big? And to walk us through this issue, we’re calling up \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Fortesa Latifi\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. She’s been reporting on this world of family channels for years and is working on a book about child influencers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the first big family vlogging families really took off in the aughts. So I wanna say around like between 2006 to like 2010, that was when they first really started making a ton of money from YouTube. And I think part of the reason that the families that got in then were so successful is because it was not over-saturated yet. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So we had the early aughts of like, these are like the beginning of family vloggers and then the mid 2010s to late 2010s, that was kind of what I have seen as the golden age of family vlogging. What was that age like? What kind of content were they making? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Back in the day on YouTube, it was very much just like, “Come along with me as I get my six kids ready for school,” or like “This is the day in the life of a mom with like five kids.” And you’ll notice that’s changed over the years. Like on YouTube, things had to ratchet up a lot. It was a lot of challenges. It was a lot of kind of trying to like outdo each other. One video that sticks in mind for me is this one family, the Family Fun Pack. I think they have like seven or eight kids and they did like a “We’re gonna only eat a specific color food.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Family Fun Pack: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I have a challenge planned for the kids today. They may or may not like it, but I’m about to go tell them what it is right now. They have no idea. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So like this kid only could eat green food for a day, this kid could only eat purple food for a day. And it was just like these kind of like silly challenges. And then once there became more people in the space, you had to do more to get noticed. So things started getting more personal and people would post videos of their sick kids and like come along with me to the emergency room for little Joey and there’s videos of him crying and bleeding or whatever. And then there’s videos of young women talking about getting their menstrual cycles for the first time or getting the sex talk. Like I cannot tell you in the research of my book how many sex talk videos I stumbled upon from family bloggers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Family Vlogger 4: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t want them to learn about sex and how we get pregnant from just anybody. I don’t want them to learn from somebody at school. And then they also get kind of a memento to remind them as they get older about this special time when they learned about how we have babies. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I was just like, “Whoa, this is a little wild.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right. It seems like to get engagement, it’s almost incentivized to be increasingly intimate and personal. And I don’t, I mean, exploitative? Is that the right word? You know?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, I think a lot of people consider that the exact right word. In the research for my book, I talked to a bunch of family vloggers and I asked them what is the content that does the best and several of them told me if a kid is hurt or sick or upset, that does really well. And so, you know, that kind of feeds into its own little monster there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It seems like this pushback against family vloggers, this like conversation about protecting child influencers is relatively new. Like it’s only been in the last couple of years that people are actually questioning the ethics of this industry. It’s probably because there are particularly egregious cases of child abuse that came out of this industry. Can we talk about that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So there’s two cases that really stick out to me. And one is, I’m sure you’re familiar with the Stauffer case. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Myka Stauffer was a YouTuber who built a following with videos about cleaning tips, parenting, and then trying to get pregnant after a miscarriage. Back in 2016, Micah and her husband announced that they were in the process of adopting a disabled baby boy from China. They were already popular, but their views skyrocketed with the adoption videos. They made a lot of monetized content about their adopted son and his medical needs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Myka Stauffer: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If anything, my child is not returnable. And we, without a doubt in our minds, we knew, no matter what state he came to us, that we would love him. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then, followers noticed that he stopped appearing in videos. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then she made this like tearful apology video basically saying that he was living with another family and that he wasn’t in their family anymore. And it kind of went viral as like this YouTube mom rehomed her adoptive son after making money off of him and she was still after he wasn’t living there still had videos on YouTube that were monetized about him. And so there was kind of this outcry. And so that was the first thing that I think really like planted the seed for people. And then the eight passengers and Ruby Franke, I don’t even wanna call it a scandal because it’s child abuse, it’s not a scandal, but that entire case. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what happened there? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, so Ruby Franke, her and her husband, Kevin, had this YouTube channel called 8 Passengers, and it was called 8 Passengers because they had six kids and so the eight of them. And they had over two million subscribers at their height. I kind of consider them to be family vlogging royalty at the time. They kind of faced this sort of cancelation where Ruby had posted a video where her son said that he hadn’t slept on a bed in seven months as punishment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>News Anchor 1: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She explained her teenage son Chad had been sleeping on a bean bag for months. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chad Franke: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was sleeping on a beanbag since October and they gave me my room back like two weeks ago. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And people were like, “Wait, wait, wait, what?” Like, everyone was like, thought that Ruby had been kind of like a strict mom, but then this kind of like pushed it over the edge. And so people started digging into like, what is going on with this family? And then a couple of years later, Ruby was arrested for aggravated child abuse. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>News Anchor 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A once popular parenting YouTuber, Ruby Franke, will spend up to 60 years in prison. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>News Anchor 3: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She pleaded guilty to numerous charges, including things like holding a child’s head underwater, putting her hand over a child’s mouth and nose so they couldn’t breathe, kicking a child while she was wearing boots. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so that was kind of the second thing. You had like Myka Stauffer and then you had Ruby Franke where people were like, “There is a darkness behind the perfect veneer of the YouTube vlogging family.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Parents are supposed to be responsible for protecting their children, but clearly that isn’t always happening with family vloggers in this very lucrative industry. So is there anything out there to protect these kids? I think that’s a new tab, Child Influencer Protections. So last year, California Governor Gavin Newsom actually signed two pieces of legislation that have to do with child influencers. The first expands something called the Coogan Law.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a 1939 law named after a silent film star named Jackie Coogan, who worked his entire childhood. And basically, by the time he was an adult, there was no money left for him. So now, California requires that 15 % of whatever a child performer earns is saved in a trust for when that child turns 18. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But until last year, the Coogan Law only applied to child actors, as in kids who are working on actual film or television sets. This expansion extends the law to child content creators. That includes vloggers, influencers, streamers, podcasters. Whenever a kid, or their family, is paid directly to post something online. It’s pretty straightforward. But California’s other law is unclear. Here’s Fortesa again to explain. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So SB 764 dictates that content creators who feature minor children in at least 30% of their content must set aside a proportionate percentage of the earnings from that content to be held in a trust account until the child is 18. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now you may be wondering what does proportionate percentage even mean? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I’ve reached out to lawyers to ask and experts what a proportionate percentage like what that really means in practice and I haven’t been able to get like a good solid answer. Like the worry here is that you would need like a forensic accountant who has a specialization in social media to even know the right amount of money that should have been saved for you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like I can’t imagine going back through maybe like a decade of like YouTube and TikTok videos and trying to calculate like, “How much was I in this video? 29%. Okay, and they made $6 ,000 off it.” It’s very complicated, but I don’t know that there’s a better way. I’m not saying I have a better idea. And I think that kind of speaks to the convoluted nature of both the industry and attempts to regulate the industry. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It doesn’t even touch on other protections for traditional child actors, like making sure they’re in school or that they’re allowed to take breaks. How do you even enforce something like that though? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I don’t know. I think it’s so difficult because this work is happening largely in the home, right? Being a family vlogger, inherently your work is in your home and it is with your children and that’s really difficult. We know how this country feels about the government stepping in between parents and children. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right. So, how do these new laws in California compare to similar laws in other states? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So Illinois was first, Minnesota was second, and California was third. Illinois’s law is pretty similar to California’s law. Minnesota’s takes it a step further, and they have this clause that’s basically considered the right to be deleted. And so it states that upon reaching the age of 18, the former child influencer can request the deletion of content. I do think that that was Minnesota’s attempt to address the privacy concerns. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But it’s also like, I don’t know, I sound like a boomer when I say this, but I feel like once something is on the internet, it really is kind of on the internet forever, especially like with these famous kids. Like you see it with the eight passengers stuff, right? Like after Ruby was arrested for child abuse, their channel was taken off of YouTube. And I’ve asked family members and they didn’t delete it. So it seems that YouTube took it offline in the wake of this arrest. But you can still find clips everywhere. Like if you look up Ruby Frankie on TikTok, you can watch entire vlogs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, this content thrives on platforms like YouTube and Instagram and TikTok, but do you see these platforms taking any action to protect these kids? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, what’s in it for them, you know? Like, I think these are companies that make a lot of money off of content featuring influencer kids. Family vlogging is a multi -billion dollar industry. I don’t think that there’s any reason for them to step in when it is so lucrative for them. Like that’s not their job to think about the child. That’s the parents’ job. The platform’s job is to make money which they’re doing off of this content. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So social media platforms have no incentive to restrict family vlogging and the new laws aren’t foolproof, not to mention a mess to enforce. Like Fortesa mentioned, it’s on the parents to have their kids’ best interests at heart. Well, when it comes to influencers who make a living off of sharing almost every aspect of their lives, what does that even look like? The answer, after this break. Now back to the story. When it comes to influencers sharing their kids’ lives online, is the tide changing at all? Okay, new tab. Influencers taking kids offline. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ve noticed this in the last couple of years where huge influencers who built their considerable platforms off of showing their kids and sharing their life with their kids have reversed course. The biggest person that comes to mind for me is Maia Knight. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right. She was a single mom who had twins. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. Yeah. She would be holding both the babies and making bottles at the same time. It was just these very real videos. She got super famous. Got like 8 million followers on TikTok. And after a year or two, she decided, “I’m going to take my daughters off of TikTok and Instagram and everything.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maia Knight: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They’re toddlers now and I have decided to not show them anymore. I’m making a choice for my daughters to protect them. Am I going to lose followers? Yes I’m going to. Am I going to lose 8 million followers? I hope not. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And there was a huge amount of backlash to that. And it was fascinating because I think there were several camps. Some people were like, “How dare you? We love them. We’re their TikTok aunties. You can’t do this,” which like, parasocial. Yeah. And I’m sure I’ve talked to other huge creators who have taken their kids offline and they told me that reactions like that totally solidify their choice and they’re like, this is why I’m doing it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then there was another camp who were like, “Maya has been exploiting her kids and now that she has this huge like brand, she’s taking them off, but it’s too late.” Which like, I don’t really understand as a concept. It’s like, do you want that to happen or do you not? I think there’s this like purity test kind of thing. Like there’s this idea. among detractors that if you ever show your kid online at all, you are evil and immoral. And I totally do not believe that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then there are people who have become moms in their influencing careers and have never shown their kids at all. And that’s really fascinating to me as a reporter, because a few years ago there was never a question about whether an influencer would show their kid online or not. Like if you were having a baby, like that baby was gonna be in a ton of content. But now when a public facing influencer is pregnant, there is the question of like, “Which camp kind of are they gonna go into?” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right, I remember when family vloggers would announce that they were pregnant again, they would start an Instagram account for the fetus, post ultrasounds, they were posting the kid before they were even born. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, yeah, and narrating like the fetus’s thoughts and like \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, like I can’t wait to meet you all. It’s like that is a six-month-old fetus. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, no, that kind of stuff has definitely fallen out of favor. Although, I don’t want to make it seem as though the majority of influencers aren’t showing their kids because they are, definitely. But there is this growing contingent where they’re not. And this is even happening among regular people. It’s not only influencers, it’s regular people who have a couple hundred followers who are like, I don’t really want to put my kid on Instagram or on TikTok. It’s interesting because I’ll interview these parents and I’m like, why did you not want to put your kid online or why did you not want to announce your pregnancy? And they have like specific reasons like online footprint which again, we were not talking about a few years ago or like worries about AI, but there’s also just this like sense of like uneasiness and just being like, “Why would I?” Which is fascinating to me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, you just had a baby, so congratulations, by the way, and you also fell into that camp of like, not announcing your pregnancy, you kind of just hard launched with like a baby. How did you come to that decision to never post your child’s face online? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. You know, I thought about this a lot. And obviously I was doing like a lot of this reporting on influencer kids and like what their lives are like. And not that I’m an influencer in any way, but like I said, kind of the way that influencers live their lives trickles down to the rest of us, like plebeians. And so we were all kind of just becoming more aware of like privacy. And when I was pregnant, I… just had this gut feeling that I just didn’t want anyone who didn’t know me in real life to know. And even now, I feel so strongly about it that I don’t want her to be on the internet and that I don’t want information or photos of her to be on the internet. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I mean. There’s also a lot of discussion about whether or not you can talk about your kids online or write about parenting without exposing your kid. I mean, what are your thoughts on this? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I am very much trying to figure this out because I have benefited so much from the writing and the content of other moms specifically and like being able to watch really personal moments in their lives and have them talk about postpartum depression or their struggles with sleep training or whatever it is and like I have learned things about their kids. Like, I have benefited so much and I’m sure they benefited from sharing it. And I don’t think that we need to go back to a time when moms were not allowed to talk about what motherhood and parenthood is like. And I’m saying moms, because most parenthood content online is by moms. I’ve heard this from other creators too, is that they try to think, what will my kid think about this in five years, in 10 years, in 15 years? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’ve also talked to kids of those first mommy bloggers and – I’m not saying this is the experience of every kid of a mom blogger, but the ones that I’ve talked to are like, “It is incredible to read how my mom felt when she was raising me and what she thought.” And they have these like incredible records, you know? So I also, I don’t want to take it too far on one side either. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Can you speak to the way that this industry and just overarching culture is changing the relationships between kids and parents? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Fortesa Latifi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s just so complicated and obviously parents have to make choices for their kids that the kids might not agree with later. But I think how many choices has really just been exacerbated by the internet and by the way it’s able to change people’s lives. And that’s the thing is I hear from a lot of parents who are like, “My kid is begging me to start a YouTube channel, like my kid wants to be a YouTuber and influencer.” And like yeah, that I understand. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And like, from the kids point of view, like, why wouldn’t they want to, you know? But I think the parent has to make the best decision that they can at the time. And I think sometimes those decisions change, like you see with parents changing their minds later and taking their kids offline. And I think as a culture, just like generally, we need to be more accepting of people like changing their minds. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is one of those internet rabbit holes that ultimately just doesn’t have a single answer at the end. These laws are a start, but enacting real change also involves a larger cultural shift in the way that we consume and post content. Remember Caymi? She’s the former mommy blogger kid who grew up and became an advocate for child influencers. She thinks kids should be allowed to exist without a camera in their face. And if you’re an influencer kid, here’s her advice to you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Caymi Barrett:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As you get older, you’re gonna meet so many people who are so different from, your parents are so different from the people who have viewed you your entire childhood, and they’re going to see you for who you are instead of seeing you for what your parents posted. I think it’s really important to literally be a kid, like, by yourself, at school, even if you have a friend that you trust to talk to about this. It’s so hard carrying all of it on your shoulders alone, but you don’t have to. And I wish that I had known that as a kid. Yeah, we’re fighting for y’all. We’re not gonna stop. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For now, let’s close these tabs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios and is reported and hosted by me, \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Morgan Sung\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">. Our Producer is Maya Cueva. Chris Egusa is our Senior Editor. Jen Chien is KQED’s Director of Podcasts and helps edit the show. Sound design by Maya Cueva and original music by Chris Egusa. Additional music by APM. Mixing and mastering by Brendan Willard. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad and Alana Walker. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager, and Holly Kernan is our Chief Content Officer. Support for this program comes from Birong Hu and supporters of the KQED Studios Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Keyboard sounds were recorded on my purple and pink Dustilver K84 wired mechanical keyboard with Gateron red switches. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you have any feedback or a topic you think we should cover, hit us up at CloseAllTabs@KQED.org. Follow us on Instagram at CloseAllTabsPod. And if you’re enjoying the show, give us a rating on Apple Podcasts or whatever platform you use. Thanks for listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"info": "\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em>, which listeners will hear in the first part of the hour, has fearless and much-needed conversations about race. Hosted by journalists of color, the show tackles the subject of race head-on, exploring how it impacts every part of society — from politics and pop culture to history, sports and more.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em>, which will be in the second part of the hour, guides you through spaces and feelings no one prepares you for — from finances to mental health, from workplace microaggressions to imposter syndrome, from relationships to parenting. The show features experts with real world experience and shares their knowledge. Because everyone needs a little help being human.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510312/codeswitch\">\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/lifekit\">\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />",
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"airtime": "SUN 7:30pm-8pm",
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"info": "Latino USA, the radio journal of news and culture, is the only national, English-language radio program produced from a Latino perspective.",
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"live-from-here-highlights": {
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"title": "Live from Here Highlights",
"info": "Chris Thile steps to the mic as the host of Live from Here (formerly A Prairie Home Companion), a live public radio variety show. Download Chris’s Song of the Week plus other highlights from the broadcast. Produced by American Public Media.",
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"rss": "https://feeds.publicradio.org/public_feeds/a-prairie-home-companion-highlights/rss/rss"
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"marketplace": {
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"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
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"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
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"order": 12
},
"link": "/podcasts/mindshift",
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"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/On-Our-Watch-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"order": 11
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"info": "Our weekly podcast explores how the media 'sausage' is made, casts an incisive eye on fluctuations in the marketplace of ideas, and examines threats to the freedom of information and expression in America and abroad. For one hour a week, the show tries to lift the veil from the process of \"making media,\" especially news media, because it's through that lens that we see the world and the world sees us",
"airtime": "SUN 2pm-3pm, MON 12am-1am",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/onTheMedia.png",
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"our-body-politic": {
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"title": "Our Body Politic",
"info": "Presented by KQED, KCRW and KPCC, and created and hosted by award-winning journalist Farai Chideya, Our Body Politic is unapologetically centered on reporting on not just how women of color experience the major political events of today, but how they’re impacting those very issues.",
"airtime": "SAT 6pm-7pm, SUN 1am-2am",
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},
"link": "/radio/program/our-body-politic",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9feGFQaHMxcw",
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"perspectives": {
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"order": 14
},
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"title": "Planet Money",
"info": "The economy explained. Imagine you could call up a friend and say, Meet me at the bar and tell me what's going on with the economy. Now imagine that's actually a fun evening.",
"airtime": "SUN 3pm-4pm",
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"politicalbreakdown": {
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"tagline": "Politics from a personal perspective",
"info": "Political Breakdown is a new series that explores the political intersection of California and the nation. Each week hosts Scott Shafer and Marisa Lagos are joined with a new special guest to unpack politics -- with personality — and offer an insider’s glimpse at how politics happens.",
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"timeUpdated": "6:54 PM",
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"timeUpdated": "6:50 PM",
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"timeUpdated": "6:50 PM",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Joseph Grcar",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
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"location": "Alameda",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
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{
"candidateName": "Sinead Geneva Anderson",
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]
},
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"location": "Alameda",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
"candidateName": "Shelly Stoll Swanson",
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]
},
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"id": "AlamedaSanJoaquinDeltaCommunityCollegeDistrictTrusteeArea2",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
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{
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]
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"location": "Alameda",
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{
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"raceType": "top3",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
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{
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{
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{
"candidateName": "Jennifer Williams",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 21804
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]
},
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"location": "Alameda",
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{
"candidateName": "Mike Kusiak",
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"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
"candidateName": "Ramnath “Ram” Shanbhogue",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
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]
},
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"id": "AlamedaEmeryUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoard",
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"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Emery Unified School District Governing Board",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
"candidateName": "Brian Donahue",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Walter Pizarro",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "John T. Van Geffen",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Rinu Nair",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6606
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]
},
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"id": "AlamedaHaywardUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoard",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceType": "top3",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
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{
"candidateName": "Luis Reynoso",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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{
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"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Austin Bruckner Carrillo",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Simon “Peter” Gutierrez Bufete",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Calyn Kelley",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Tom Wong",
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"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
"candidateName": "David A. Pombo",
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{
"candidateName": "Surekha Shekar",
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"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
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"id": "AlamedaLivermoreValleyJointUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoard",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top2",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 65867,
"candidates": [
{
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Amanda Pepper",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Jean Paulsen",
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"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Tara Boyce",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 13219
},
{
"candidateName": "Christiaan Vandenheuvel",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Deena Kaplanis",
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"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
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"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "New Haven Unified School District Governing Board, Area 1",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 4547,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Midji Kuo-Rovetta",
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"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Patricio R. Urbi",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Jatinder (JP) K. Sahi",
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"candidateParty": "",
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}
]
},
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 4448,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Melanie Freeberg",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Michelle Parnala",
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"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
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"id": "AlamedaNewHavenUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardArea3",
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"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "New Haven Unified School District Governing Board, Area 3",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 5229,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Lydia Idem",
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"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Michael Gonzales",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top3",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 32762,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Aiden Hill",
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"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Vikas Minglani",
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"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Gabriel Anguiano Jr.",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Austin Block",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Phuong Nguyen",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6250
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]
},
"AlamedaPleasantonUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardArea3": {
"id": "AlamedaPleasantonUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardArea3",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Pleasanton Unified School District Governing Board, Area 3",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Donalyn Harris",
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"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Kelly Mokashi",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3959
}
]
},
"AlamedaPleasantonUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardArea4": {
"id": "AlamedaPleasantonUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardArea4",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Pleasanton Unified School District Governing Board, Area 4",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 6947,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Jen Flynn",
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"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3309
},
{
"candidateName": "Charlie Jones",
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"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3638
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]
},
"AlamedaSanLorenzoUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardArea5": {
"id": "AlamedaSanLorenzoUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardArea5",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "San Lorenzo Unified School District Governing Board, Area 5",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 3704,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Alicia Gonzalez",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2363
},
{
"candidateName": "Penny Peck",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1341
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]
},
"AlamedaSunolGlenUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoard": {
"id": "AlamedaSunolGlenUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoard",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Sunol Glen Unified School District Governing Board",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 633,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Ryan Jergensen",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 264
},
{
"candidateName": "Erin Choin",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 369
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]
},
"AlamedaBoardofSupervisorsDistrict5": {
"id": "AlamedaBoardofSupervisorsDistrict5",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 5",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 141989,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "John J. Bauters",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 70782
},
{
"candidateName": "Nikki Fortunato Bas",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 71207
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]
},
"AlamedaAlamedaCityCouncil": {
"id": "AlamedaAlamedaCityCouncil",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Alameda City Council",
"raceDescription": "Top two candidates win seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top2",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 61752,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Trish Herrera Spencer",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 12086
},
{
"candidateName": "Thushan Amarasiriwardena",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 13049
},
{
"candidateName": "Michele Pryor",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 16396
},
{
"candidateName": "Greg Boller",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 14208
},
{
"candidateName": "Steve Slauson",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6013
}
]
},
"AlamedaAlamedaAuditor": {
"id": "AlamedaAlamedaAuditor",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Alameda Auditor",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 27772,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Kevin R. Kearney",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 27772
}
]
},
"AlamedaAlamedaTreasurer": {
"id": "AlamedaAlamedaTreasurer",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Alameda Treasurer",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 27514,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Kevin Kennedy",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 27514
}
]
},
"AlamedaBerkeleyRentStabilizationBoardCommissioner": {
"id": "AlamedaBerkeleyRentStabilizationBoardCommissioner",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Berkeley Rent Stabilization Board Commissioner",
"raceDescription": "Top four candidates win seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top4",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 138269,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Alfred Twu",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 22942
},
{
"candidateName": "Carole Marasovic",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 19557
},
{
"candidateName": "Xavier Johnson",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 26978
},
{
"candidateName": "Avery Arbaugh",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 19825
},
{
"candidateName": "Andy Kelley",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 23373
},
{
"candidateName": "Dominique Walker",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 25594
}
]
},
"AlamedaBerkeleySchoolDirector": {
"id": "AlamedaBerkeleySchoolDirector",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Berkeley School Director",
"raceDescription": "Top two candidates win seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top2",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 84804,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Norma J.F. Harrison",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3121
},
{
"candidateName": "Jen Corn",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 30836
},
{
"candidateName": "Laura Babitt",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 22061
},
{
"candidateName": "Ana Vasudeo",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 25743
},
{
"candidateName": "Adbur Sikder",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3043
}
]
},
"AlamedaDublinMayor": {
"id": "AlamedaDublinMayor",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Dublin Mayor",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 25515,
"candidates": [
{
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 8278
},
{
"candidateName": "Sherry Hu",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 9274
},
{
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},
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},
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"id": "AlamedaDublinCityCouncilArea3",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
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]
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"id": "AlamedaEmeryvilleCityCouncil",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
"candidateName": "Sam Gould",
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{
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{
"candidateName": "Sukhdeep Kaur",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
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{
"candidateName": "Matthew Solomon",
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]
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{
"candidateName": "Vinnie Bacon",
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{
"candidateName": "Hiu Ng",
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{
"candidateName": "Raj Salwan",
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]
},
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
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]
},
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
"candidateName": "Sterling Jefferson Engle",
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{
"candidateName": "Chandra Wagh",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Yajing Zhang",
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]
},
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Raymond Liu",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Teresa Cox",
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"candidateParty": "",
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]
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"id": "AlamedaHaywardCityCouncil",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
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{
"candidateName": "Daniel Goldstein",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Angela Andrews",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Joe O. Ramos",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Ray Bonilla Jr.",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Tom Ferreira",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Francisco Zermeño",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
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"id": "AlamedaLivermoreMayor",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 33976,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "John Marchand",
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]
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"id": "AlamedaLivermoreCityCouncilDistrict3",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidateName": "David Farley",
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{
"candidateName": "Steven Dunbar",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Jeff Kaskey",
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]
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"id": "AlamedaLivermoreCityCouncilDistrict4",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
"candidateName": "Thomas Soules",
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]
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"location": "Alameda",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
{
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{
"candidateName": "Jason Miguel",
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{
"candidateName": "Elisa Martinez",
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]
},
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"id": "AlamedaNewarkCityCouncilFullTerm",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
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{
"candidateName": "Hitendra Gupta",
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{
"candidateName": "Jacinta Arteaga",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Julie Del Catancio",
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{
"candidateName": "Vinod Kumar",
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]
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
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{
"candidateName": "Renu Malhotra",
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{
"candidateName": "Sean Mahanay",
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{
"candidateName": "Lucia Gutierrez",
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{
"candidateName": "Phil Bloxom",
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]
},
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
"candidateName": "Conna McCarthy",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "James Green",
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{
"candidateName": "Lorrel Plimier",
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{
"candidateName": "N. Sunny Bostrom-Fleming",
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]
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
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{
"candidateName": "Max Roman",
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{
"candidateName": "Victoria Rosenbaum",
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{
"candidateName": "Susy Struble",
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]
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{
"candidateName": "Karla Brown",
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]
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"location": "Alameda",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
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{
"candidateName": "Valerie Arkin",
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]
},
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"id": "AlamedaPleasantonCityCouncilDistrict4",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
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{
"candidateName": "Matthew B. Gaidos",
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]
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
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{
"candidateName": "Marcus Bourlard",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Gary Singh",
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"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
"AlamedaUnionCityCouncilDistrict1": {
"id": "AlamedaUnionCityCouncilDistrict1",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
"candidateName": "Wendy Huang",
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{
"candidateName": "Erin Robertson",
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{
"candidateName": "Lance Nishihira",
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]
},
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"id": "AlamedaACTransitDistrictDirectorWard6",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Jesse Lee Gunn",
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{
"candidateName": "Shonda Goward",
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{
"candidateName": "A. Curtis Silva",
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]
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"id": "AlamedaAlamedaCountyWaterDistrictDirectorWard5",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
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{
"candidateName": "Raymond Ojeda",
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]
},
"AlamedaBARTDirectorDistrict5": {
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. Includes votes from Alameda and Contra Costa counties.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 154960,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Melissa Hernandez",
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{
"candidateName": "Joseph Grcar",
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"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
"AlamedaBARTDirectorDistrict7": {
"id": "AlamedaBARTDirectorDistrict7",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. Inlcudes votes from Alameda County and San Francisco.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
{
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{
"candidateName": "Dana Lang",
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]
},
"AlamedaCastroValleySanitaryDistrictDirector": {
"id": "AlamedaCastroValleySanitaryDistrictDirector",
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"raceType": "top3",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
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{
"candidateName": "Joseph Grcar",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Daniel M. Akagi",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Kenneth Owen",
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"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Darshan Saini",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Dave Sadoff",
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]
},
"AlamedaDublinSanRamonServicesDistrictBoardofDirectorsArea3": {
"id": "AlamedaDublinSanRamonServicesDistrictBoardofDirectorsArea3",
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 8409,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Javier Lopez Rivero",
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{
"candidateName": "Rich Halket",
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]
},
"AlamedaEBMUDDistrictDirectorWard5": {
"id": "AlamedaEBMUDDistrictDirectorWard5",
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"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "EBMUD District Director, Ward 5",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 64662,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "John E. Lewis",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Jim Oddie",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Alex Spehr",
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]
},
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"id": "AlamedaEBMUDDistrictDirectorWard6",
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{
"candidateName": "Luana España",
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{
"candidateName": "Tim McMahon",
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{
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
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{
"candidateName": "Luis Reynoso",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
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{
"candidateName": "Joseph Grcar",
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{
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{
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{
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
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{
"candidateName": "Matt Bogdanowicz",
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"candidateName": "James Boswell",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
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{
"candidateName": "Jacob Vital",
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{
"candidateName": "Moira “Mimi” Dean",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
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{
"candidateName": "Bob Glaze",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
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{
"candidateName": "Luis Reynoso",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Damaris Villalobos-Galindo",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
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"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
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{
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"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 23822,
"candidates": [
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{
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 8966,
"candidates": [
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"voteCount": 6322
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{
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
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"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure R",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 8856,
"candidates": [
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4216
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{
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
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"AlamedaMeasureS": {
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"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure S",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 8274,
"candidates": [
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5508
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{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
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"voteCount": 2766
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"AlamedaMeasureT": {
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"location": "Alameda",
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"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 8170,
"candidates": [
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5793
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{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2377
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"AlamedaMeasureU": {
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"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure U",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 7959,
"candidates": [
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{
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
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"AlamedaMeasureV": {
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"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure V",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 8767,
"candidates": [
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{
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"AlamedaMeasureW": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasureW",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure W",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 51630,
"candidates": [
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 31461
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{
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
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"AlamedaMeasureX": {
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"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure X",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 53242,
"candidates": [
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 41819
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{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
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"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure Y",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 52536,
"candidates": [
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 39508
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{
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
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"AlamedaMeasureZ": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasureZ",
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"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure Z",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 52929,
"candidates": [
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 42280
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{
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
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"AlamedaMeasureAA": {
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"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure AA",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 52282,
"candidates": [
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{
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5888
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]
},
"AlamedaMeasureBB": {
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"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure BB",
"raceDescription": "Berkeley. Affordable housing programs. Passes with majority vote. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 52882,
"candidates": [
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"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 29623
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{
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
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"voteCount": 23259
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]
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"AlamedaMeasureCC": {
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"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure CC",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 51633,
"candidates": [
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
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"AlamedaMeasureDD": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasureDD",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure DD",
"raceDescription": "Berkeley. CAFO prohibition. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 49700,
"candidates": [
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 30761
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
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"AlamedaMeasureEE": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasureEE",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure EE",
"raceDescription": "Berkeley. Parcel tax. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 52312,
"candidates": [
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 23873
},
{
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
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]
},
"AlamedaMeasureFF": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasureFF",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure FF",
"raceDescription": "Berkeley. Parcel tax. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 52489,
"candidates": [
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 31942
},
{
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 20547
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]
},
"AlamedaMeasureGG": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasureGG",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure GG",
"raceDescription": "Berkeley. Fossil fuel tax. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 52229,
"candidates": [
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
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]
},
"AlamedaMeasureHH": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasureHH",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure HH",
"raceDescription": "Berkeley. Indoor air quality. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 51108,
"candidates": [
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{
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
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]
},
"AlamedaMeasureII": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasureII",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure II",
"raceDescription": "Dublin. Open Space Initiative. Passes with 50% vote. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 25701,
"candidates": [
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"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 13649
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{
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
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]
},
"AlamedaMeasureJJ": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasureJJ",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure JJ",
"raceDescription": "Dublin. Government accountability. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 25445,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 19350
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6095
}
]
},
"AlamedaMeasureK1": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasureK1",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure K1",
"raceDescription": "Hayward. Sales tax. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 46707,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 38826
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 7881
}
]
},
"AlamedaMeasureLL": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasureLL",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure LL",
"raceDescription": "Newark. Transient occupancy tax. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 15814,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 12721
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3093
}
]
},
"AlamedaMeasureMM": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasureMM",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure MM",
"raceDescription": "Oakland. Wildfire protection zone. Passes with 2/3 vote. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 35275,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 25125
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 10150
}
]
},
"AlamedaMeasureNN": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasureNN",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure NN",
"raceDescription": "Oakland. Parking tax. Passes with 2/3 vote. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 159573,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 112971
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 46602
}
]
},
"AlamedaMeasureOO": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasureOO",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure OO",
"raceDescription": "Oakland. Public ethics comission. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 150503,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 110317
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 40186
}
]
},
"AlamedaMeasurePP": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasurePP",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure PP",
"raceDescription": "Pleasanton. Sales tax. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 34880,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 15983
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 18897
}
]
},
"AlamedaMeasureQQ": {
"id": "AlamedaMeasureQQ",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Measure QQ",
"raceDescription": "Union City. Gross receipts tax. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 24809,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 20249
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4560
}
]
},
"AlamedaAlbanyCityCouncil": {
"id": "AlamedaAlbanyCityCouncil",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Albany City Council",
"raceDescription": "Top three candidates win seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top3",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 7969,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Jennifer Hansen-Romero",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2072
},
{
"candidateName": "Peggy (Margaret) McQuaid",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2150
},
{
"candidateName": "Jeremiah Garrett-Pinguelo",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 393
},
{
"candidateName": "Aaron Tiedemann",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1490
},
{
"candidateName": "Preston Jordan",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1864
}
]
},
"AlamedaAlbanyCityCouncilFinalRound": {
"id": "AlamedaAlbanyCityCouncilFinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Albany City Council Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top three candidates win seat. This result reflects redistributed votes. The results of the instant runoff will change as more first-choice votes are counted.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top3",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 7865.9493,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Jennifer Hansen-Romero",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2002
},
{
"candidateName": "Peggy (Margaret) McQuaid",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2002
},
{
"candidateName": "Jeremiah Garrett-Pinguelo (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Aaron Tiedemann",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1823.9955
},
{
"candidateName": "Preston Jordan ",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2037.9538
}
]
},
"AlamedaAlbanyBoardofEducation": {
"id": "AlamedaAlbanyBoardofEducation",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Albany Board of Education",
"raceDescription": "Top two candidates win seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top2",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 7096,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Jolene Gazmen",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1633
},
{
"candidateName": "Dayna Inkeles",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1972
},
{
"candidateName": "Brian L. Doss",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 718
},
{
"candidateName": "Veronica Davidson",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2773
}
]
},
"AlamedaAlbanyBoardofEducationFinalRound": {
"id": "AlamedaAlbanyBoardofEducationFinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Albany Board of Education Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top two candidates win seat. This result reflects redistributed votes. The results of the instant runoff will change as more first-choice votes are counted.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top2",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 6949.5470000000005,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Jolene Gazmen",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1997.5386
},
{
"candidateName": "Dayna Inkeles",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2569.0084
},
{
"candidateName": "Brian L. Doss (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Veronica Davidson",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2383
}
]
},
"AlamedaBerkeleyMayor": {
"id": "AlamedaBerkeleyMayor",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Berkeley Mayor",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 52493,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Adena Ishii",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 19978
},
{
"candidateName": "Sophie Hahn",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 19633
},
{
"candidateName": "Kate Harrison",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 11853
},
{
"candidateName": "Naomi D. Pete",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 501
},
{
"candidateName": "Logan Bowie",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 528
}
]
},
"AlamedaBerkeleyMayorFinalRound": {
"id": "AlamedaBerkeleyMayorFinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Berkeley Mayor Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result reflects redistributed votes. The results of the instant runoff will change as more first-choice votes are counted.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 49265,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Adena Ishii",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 25156
},
{
"candidateName": "Sophie Hahn",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 24109
},
{
"candidateName": "Kate Harrison (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Naomi D. Pete (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Logan Bowie (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
}
]
},
"AlamedaBerkeleyCityCouncilDistrict2": {
"id": "AlamedaBerkeleyCityCouncilDistrict2",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Berkeley City Council, District 2",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 6873,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Terry Taplin",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4787
},
{
"candidateName": "Jenny Guarino",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2086
}
]
},
"AlamedaBerkeleyCityCouncilDistrict3": {
"id": "AlamedaBerkeleyCityCouncilDistrict3",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Berkeley City Council, District 3",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 6344,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Deborah Matthews",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1526
},
{
"candidateName": "John “Chip” Moore",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1459
},
{
"candidateName": "Ben Bartlett",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3359
}
]
},
"AlamedaBerkeleyCityCouncilDistrict3FinalRound": {
"id": "AlamedaBerkeleyCityCouncilDistrict3FinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Berkeley City Council, District 3 Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result reflects redistributed votes. The results of the instant runoff will change as more first-choice votes are counted.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 6096,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Deborah Matthews",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1833
},
{
"candidateName": "John “Chip” Moore (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Ben Bartlett",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4263
}
]
},
"AlamedaBerkeleyCityCouncilDistrict5": {
"id": "AlamedaBerkeleyCityCouncilDistrict5",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Berkeley City Council, District 5",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 8585,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Nilang Gor",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1063
},
{
"candidateName": "Todd Andrew",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1721
},
{
"candidateName": "Shoshana O’Keefe",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5801
}
]
},
"AlamedaBerkeleyCityCouncilDistrict5FinalRound": {
"id": "AlamedaBerkeleyCityCouncilDistrict5FinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Berkeley City Council, District 5 Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result reflects redistributed votes. The results of the instant runoff will change as more first-choice votes are counted.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 8262,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Nilang Gor (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Todd Andrew",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1995
},
{
"candidateName": "Shoshana O’Keefe",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6267
}
]
},
"AlamedaBerkeleyCityCouncilDistrict6": {
"id": "AlamedaBerkeleyCityCouncilDistrict6",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Berkeley City Council, District 6",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 7332,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Brent Blackaby",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4405
},
{
"candidateName": "Andy Katz",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2927
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilAtLarge": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilAtLarge",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland City Council, At Large",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 143599,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Cristina “Tina” Tostado",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5406
},
{
"candidateName": "Charlene Wang",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 30485
},
{
"candidateName": "Mindy Ruth Pechenuk",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4835
},
{
"candidateName": "Rowena Brown",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 41871
},
{
"candidateName": "Nancy Sidebotham",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2254
},
{
"candidateName": "LeRonne L. Armstrong",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 39258
},
{
"candidateName": "Fabian Robinson",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2794
},
{
"candidateName": "Shawn Danino",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 9695
},
{
"candidateName": "Kanitha Matoury",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5629
},
{
"candidateName": "Selika Thomas",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1372
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilAtLargeFinalRound": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilAtLargeFinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland City Council, At Large Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result reflects redistributed votes. The results of the instant runoff will change as more first-choice votes are counted.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 127094,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Cristina “Tina” Tostado (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Charlene Wang (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Mindy Ruth Pechenuk (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Rowena Brown",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 72315
},
{
"candidateName": "Nancy Sidebotham (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "LeRonne L. Armstrong",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 54779
},
{
"candidateName": "Fabian Robinson (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Shawn Danino (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Kanitha Matoury (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Selika Thomas (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict1": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict1",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland City Council, District 1 ",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 29613,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Edward C. Frank",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2581
},
{
"candidateName": "Zac Unger",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 22641
},
{
"candidateName": "Len Raphael",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4391
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict1FinalRound": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict1FinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland City Council, District 1 Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result reflects redistributed votes. The results of the instant runoff will change as more first-choice votes are counted.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 29252,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Edward C. Frank (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Zac Unger",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 24350
},
{
"candidateName": "Len Raphael",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4902
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict3": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict3",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland City Council, District 3 ",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 20561,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Baba Afolabi",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1600
},
{
"candidateName": "Carroll Fife",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 9871
},
{
"candidateName": "Michelle D. Hailey",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1458
},
{
"candidateName": "Warren Mitchell Logan",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6222
},
{
"candidateName": "Shan M. Hirsch",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 609
},
{
"candidateName": "Meron Semedar",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 801
}
]
},
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"id": "AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict3FinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland City Council, District 3 Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result reflects redistributed votes. The results of the instant runoff will change as more first-choice votes are counted.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 19506,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Baba Afolabi (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Carroll Fife",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Michelle D. Hailey (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Warren Mitchell Logan",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 8069
},
{
"candidateName": "Shan M. Hirsch (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Meron Semedar (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict5": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict5",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland City Council, District 5",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 12299,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Noel Gallo",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6482
},
{
"candidateName": "Dominic Prado",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1930
},
{
"candidateName": "Erin Armstrong",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3887
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict5FinalRound": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict5FinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland City Council, District 5 Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result reflects redistributed votes. The results of the instant runoff will change as more first-choice votes are counted.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
{
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"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Dominic Prado (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Erin Armstrong",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4939
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict7": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict7",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland City Council, District 7",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 13089,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Merika Goolsby",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2063
},
{
"candidateName": "Ken Houston",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4428
},
{
"candidateName": "Iris Merriouns",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4132
},
{
"candidateName": "Marcie Hodge",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2466
}
]
},
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"id": "AlamedaOaklandCityCouncilDistrict7FinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland City Council, District 7 Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result reflects redistributed votes. The results of the instant runoff will change as more first-choice votes are counted.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 12106,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Merika Goolsby (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Ken Houston",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Iris Merriouns",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5803
},
{
"candidateName": "Marcie Hodge (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandCityAttorney": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandCityAttorney",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland City Attorney",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Brenda Harbin-Forte",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 56752
},
{
"candidateName": "Ryan Richardson",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 80842
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandSchoolDirectorDistrict1": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandSchoolDirectorDistrict1",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland School Director, District 1 ",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 28794,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Rachel Latta",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 22409
},
{
"candidateName": "Benjamin Salop",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6385
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandSchoolDirectorDistrict3": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandSchoolDirectorDistrict3",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland School Director, District 3 ",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 19777,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Dwayne Aikens Jr.",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 8847
},
{
"candidateName": "VanCedric Williams",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 10930
}
]
},
"AlamedaOaklandSchoolDirectorDistrict5": {
"id": "AlamedaOaklandSchoolDirectorDistrict5",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "Oakland School Director, District 5 ",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Sasha Ritzie-Hernandez",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Patrice Berry",
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"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6463
}
]
},
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"raceName": "Oakland School Director, District 7 ",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 12366,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Clifford Thompson",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 7776
},
{
"candidateName": "Domonic Ware",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4590
}
]
},
"AlamedaSanLeandroCityCouncilDistrict1": {
"id": "AlamedaSanLeandroCityCouncilDistrict1",
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"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "San Leandro City Council, District 1",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 22501,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Sbeydeh Viveros Walton",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 22501
}
]
},
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"id": "AlamedaSanLeandroCityCouncilDistrict2",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "San Leandro City Council, District 2",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Ed Hernandez",
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"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 14150
},
{
"candidateName": "Bryan Azevedo",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 14605
}
]
},
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"id": "AlamedaSanLeandroCityCouncilDistrict4",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "San Leandro City Council, District 4 ",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
"candidateName": "Fred Simon",
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}
]
},
"AlamedaSanLeandroCityCouncilDistrict6": {
"id": "AlamedaSanLeandroCityCouncilDistrict6",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Alameda",
"raceName": "San Leandro City Council, District 6 ",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "9:01 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
"candidateName": "Robert Aguilar Bulatao",
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"voteCount": 10457
},
{
"candidateName": "Dylan Boldt",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 16698
}
]
},
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"location": "Contra Costa",
"raceName": "Contra Costa County Board of Education Governing Board, Area 1",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Anthony Edward Caro",
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"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 28949
},
{
"candidateName": "Daniel Nathan-Heiss",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 42206
}
]
},
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"type": "localRace",
"location": "Contra Costa",
"raceName": "Contra Costa County Board of Education Governing Board, Area 3",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
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},
{
"candidateName": "Vicki Gordon",
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}
]
},
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"location": "Contra Costa",
"raceName": "Contra Costa Community College District Governing Board, Ward 2",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
"candidateName": "Diana J. Honig",
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"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Kofi Opong-Mensah",
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"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 27867
}
]
},
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"location": "Contra Costa",
"raceName": "Contra Costa Community College District Governing Board, Ward 5",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
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},
{
"candidateName": "Fernando Sandoval",
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]
},
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"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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{
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},
{
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{
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},
{
"candidateName": "Peter Catalano",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Stacey Schweppe",
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}
]
},
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},
{
"candidateName": "Dee Brown",
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}
]
},
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"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Olga Cobos-Smith",
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]
},
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},
{
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{
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},
{
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},
{
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},
{
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]
},
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"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
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},
{
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}
]
},
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},
{
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}
]
},
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"location": "Contra Costa",
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"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Karin Shumway",
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}
]
},
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"location": "Contra Costa",
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"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Sukriti Sehgal",
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"candidateParty": "",
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}
]
},
"CCWestContraCostaUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardArea2": {
"id": "CCWestContraCostaUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardArea2",
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"location": "Contra Costa",
"raceName": "West Contra Costa Unified School District Governing Board, Area 2",
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"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Guadalupe Enllana",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Otheree AK Christian",
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"candidateParty": "",
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}
]
},
"CCMoragaSchoolDistrictGoverningBoard": {
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"location": "Contra Costa",
"raceName": "Moraga School District Governing Board",
"raceDescription": "Top two candidates win seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top2",
"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Lee Hays",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Gian Panetta",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Stephanie Dickerson",
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}
]
},
"CCBoardofSupervisorsDistrict5": {
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"type": "localRace",
"location": "Contra Costa",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 5",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "https://www.kqed.org/voterguide/contracosta/races#supervisor-5th-district",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:39 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 79213,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Mike Barbanica",
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"candidateParty": "",
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},
{
"candidateName": "Shanelle Scales-Preston",
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"candidateParty": "",
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}
]
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"MarinNorthMarinWaterDistrictDirectorDivision3": {
"id": "MarinNorthMarinWaterDistrictDirectorDivision3",
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"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "North Marin Water District Director, Division 3",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 6352,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Francis Drouillard",
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"candidateParty": "",
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{
"candidateName": "Michael H. Joly",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
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]
},
"MarinMeasureAA": {
"id": "MarinMeasureAA",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure AA",
"raceDescription": "Petaluma Joint Union High School District. School bond. Passes with 55% vote. Includes votes from Marin and Sonoma Counties.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 40540,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
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"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 25466
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{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
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]
},
"MarinMeasureB": {
"id": "MarinMeasureB",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure B",
"raceDescription": "Tamalpais Union High School District. School bond. Passes with 55% vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 66819,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 43939
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{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
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},
"MarinMeasureC": {
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"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure C",
"raceDescription": "Bolinas-Stinson Union School District. Parcel tax. Passes with 2/3 vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 1120,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 807
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{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 313
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]
},
"MarinMeasureE": {
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"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure E",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 6981,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4219
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{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2762
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]
},
"MarinMeasureG": {
"id": "MarinMeasureG",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure G",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 5885,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4123
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{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1762
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]
},
"MarinMeasureH": {
"id": "MarinMeasureH",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure H",
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"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 4403,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1763
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2640
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]
},
"MarinMeasureI": {
"id": "MarinMeasureI",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure I",
"raceDescription": "Fairfax. Rent stabilization. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 4733,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2991
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1742
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]
},
"MarinMeasureJ": {
"id": "MarinMeasureJ",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure J",
"raceDescription": "Fairfax. Infrastructure bond. Passes with 2/3 vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 4781,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2966
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1815
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]
},
"MarinMeasureK": {
"id": "MarinMeasureK",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure K",
"raceDescription": "Larkspur. Rent increase limit. Passes with majority vote. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 7144,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2710
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4434
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]
},
"MarinMeasureL": {
"id": "MarinMeasureL",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure L",
"raceDescription": "Mill Valley. Sales tax. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 8565,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6623
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1942
}
]
},
"MarinMeasureM": {
"id": "MarinMeasureM",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure M",
"raceDescription": "Novato. Sales tax. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 26157,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 15151
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 11006
}
]
},
"MarinMeasureN": {
"id": "MarinMeasureN",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure N",
"raceDescription": "San Anselmo. Rent increase limit. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 7470,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2756
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4714
}
]
},
"MarinMeasureO": {
"id": "MarinMeasureO",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure O",
"raceDescription": "San Anselmo. Tenant benefits. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 7560,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2556
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5004
}
]
},
"MarinMeasureP": {
"id": "MarinMeasureP",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure P",
"raceDescription": "San Rafael. Parcel tax. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 23788,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 12375
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 11413
}
]
},
"MarinMeasureQ": {
"id": "MarinMeasureQ",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure Q",
"raceDescription": "Stinson Beach Fire Protection District. Spending limit. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 332,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 309
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 23
}
]
},
"MarinMeasureR": {
"id": "MarinMeasureR",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Marin",
"raceName": "Measure R",
"raceDescription": "Stinson Beach Fire Protection District. Parcel tax. Passes with 2/3 vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:57 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 335,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 274
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 61
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]
},
"NapaNapaCountyBoardofEducationTrusteeArea5": {
"id": "NapaNapaCountyBoardofEducationTrusteeArea5",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Napa County Board of Education, Trustee Area 5",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 7504,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Rory Moran",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2163
},
{
"candidateName": "Gerald Parrott \r",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5341
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]
},
"NapaSolanoCountyBoardofEducationTrusteeArea2": {
"id": "NapaSolanoCountyBoardofEducationTrusteeArea2",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Solano County Board of Education, Trustee Area 2",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. Includes votes from Napa and Solano counties.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 28859,
"candidates": [
{
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"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 10075
},
{
"candidateName": "Carol J. Kalamaras",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5417
},
{
"candidateName": "Amy Sharp",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 13367
}
]
},
"NapaNapaValleyCollegeTrusteeArea6": {
"id": "NapaNapaValleyCollegeTrusteeArea6",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Napa Valley College, Trustee Area 6",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 8021,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Ines De Luna",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4839
},
{
"candidateName": "Scott Owens",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3182
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]
},
"NapaNapaValleyUnifiedSchoolDistrictTrusteeArea2": {
"id": "NapaNapaValleyUnifiedSchoolDistrictTrusteeArea2",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Napa Valley Unified School District, Trustee Area 2",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 6552,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Lisa W. Chu",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4603
},
{
"candidateName": "Kevin “KDub” West",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1949
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]
},
"NapaNapaValleyUnifiedSchoolDistrictTrusteeArea4": {
"id": "NapaNapaValleyUnifiedSchoolDistrictTrusteeArea4",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Napa Valley Unified School District, Trustee Area 4",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 5964,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Devin Jones",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2087
},
{
"candidateName": "Eve Ryser",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3877
}
]
},
"NapaNapaValleyUnifiedSchoolDistrictTrusteeArea5": {
"id": "NapaNapaValleyUnifiedSchoolDistrictTrusteeArea5",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Napa Valley Unified School District, Trustee Area 5",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 5273,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "John Henry Martin",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3094
},
{
"candidateName": "David T. Gracia",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2179
}
]
},
"NapaNapaValleyUnifiedSchoolDistrictTrusteeArea7": {
"id": "NapaNapaValleyUnifiedSchoolDistrictTrusteeArea7",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Napa Valley Unified School District, Trustee Area 7",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 7113,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Marie Dennett",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3199
},
{
"candidateName": "Julianna Hart",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3914
}
]
},
"NapaFairfieldSuisunUnifiedSchoolDistrictTrusteeArea3": {
"id": "NapaFairfieldSuisunUnifiedSchoolDistrictTrusteeArea3",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Fairfield-Suisun Unified School District, Trustee Area 3",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. Includes votes from Napa and Solano Counties.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 7982,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Brigette Hunley",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4144
},
{
"candidateName": "Judi Honeychurch",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3838
}
]
},
"NapaAmericanCanyonMayor": {
"id": "NapaAmericanCanyonMayor",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "American Canyon Mayor",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 8998,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "David Oro",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4342
},
{
"candidateName": "Pierre Washington",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4656
}
]
},
"NapaAmericanCanyonCityCouncil": {
"id": "NapaAmericanCanyonCityCouncil",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "American Canyon City Council",
"raceDescription": "Top two candidates win seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top2",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 13690,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Melissa Lamattina",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4312
},
{
"candidateName": "Elmer Andrei Manaid",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2796
},
{
"candidateName": "Davet Mohammed",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3044
},
{
"candidateName": "Brando R. Cruz",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3538
}
]
},
"NapaCalistogaMayor": {
"id": "NapaCalistogaMayor",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Calistoga Mayor",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 1509,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Donald Williams",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1509
}
]
},
"NapaCalistogaCityCouncil": {
"id": "NapaCalistogaCityCouncil",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Calistoga City Council",
"raceDescription": "Top two candidates win seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top2",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 2676,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Lisa Gift",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 843
},
{
"candidateName": "Marion Villalba",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 745
},
{
"candidateName": "Irais Lopez-Ortega",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1088
}
]
},
"NapaNapaMayor": {
"id": "NapaNapaMayor",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Napa Mayor",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 33270,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Tuesday D. Allison",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6598
},
{
"candidateName": "Scott Sedgley",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 26672
}
]
},
"NapaNapaCityCouncilDistrict2": {
"id": "NapaNapaCityCouncilDistrict2",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Napa City Council, District 2",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 7264,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Beth Painter",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 7264
}
]
},
"NapaNapaCityCouncilDistrict4": {
"id": "NapaNapaCityCouncilDistrict4",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Napa City Council, District 4",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 5214,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Bernardo “Bernie” Narvaez",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5214
}
]
},
"NapaStHelenaMayor": {
"id": "NapaStHelenaMayor",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "St Helena Mayor",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 2662,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Paul J. Dohring",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1836
},
{
"candidateName": "Billy Summers",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 826
}
]
},
"NapaStHelenaCityCouncil": {
"id": "NapaStHelenaCityCouncil",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "St Helena City Council",
"raceDescription": "Top two candidates win seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top2",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 4172,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Michelle Deasy",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1580
},
{
"candidateName": "Hector R. Marroquin",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1076
},
{
"candidateName": "Aaron Barak",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1516
}
]
},
"NapaYountvilleTownCouncil": {
"id": "NapaYountvilleTownCouncil",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Yountville Town Council",
"raceDescription": "Top two candidates win seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top2",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 2117,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Joe Tagliaboschi",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 483
},
{
"candidateName": "Robert Moore",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 234
},
{
"candidateName": "Pam Reeves",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 651
},
{
"candidateName": "Eric E. Knight",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 749
}
]
},
"NapaMeasureBSchool": {
"id": "NapaMeasureBSchool",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Napa Valley Unified School District, Measure B",
"raceDescription": "Napa Valley Unified School District. School bond. Passes with 55% vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 42267,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 23284
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 18983
}
]
},
"NapaMeasureU": {
"id": "NapaMeasureU",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Measure U",
"raceDescription": "Napa Valley Transportation Authority. Transporation sales tax. Passes with 2/3 vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 60783,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 44230
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 16553
}
]
},
"NapaMeasureG": {
"id": "NapaMeasureG",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Measure G",
"raceDescription": "Napa. Sales tax. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 34724,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 19961
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 14763
}
]
},
"NapaMeasureA1": {
"id": "NapaMeasureA1",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Measure A1",
"raceDescription": "St. Helena. Establishing charter city. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 2719,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1191
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1528
}
]
},
"NapaMeasureA2": {
"id": "NapaMeasureA2",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "Measure A2",
"raceDescription": "St. Helena. Real property transfer tax. Passes with majority vote. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 2741,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1123
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1618
}
]
},
"NapaMeasureBStHelena": {
"id": "NapaMeasureBStHelena",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "Napa",
"raceName": "St. Helena, Measure B",
"raceDescription": "St. Helena. Winery and planned agritourism overlay. Passes with majority vote. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:25 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 2764,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1366
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1398
}
]
},
"SFBoardofEducation": {
"id": "SFBoardofEducation",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Education",
"raceDescription": "Top four candidates win seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top4",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 1012778,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Laurance Lem Lee",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 45736
},
{
"candidateName": "Lefteris Eleftheriou",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 22285
},
{
"candidateName": "Jaime Huling",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 168659
},
{
"candidateName": "Ann Hsu",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 81044
},
{
"candidateName": "John Jersin",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 122450
},
{
"candidateName": "Parag Gupta",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 139340
},
{
"candidateName": "Matt Alexander",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 122698
},
{
"candidateName": "Supryia Marie Ray",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 127834
},
{
"candidateName": "Virginia Cheung",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 101017
},
{
"candidateName": "Min Chang",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 48550
},
{
"candidateName": "Maddy Krantz",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 33165
}
]
},
"SFCommunityCollegeBoard": {
"id": "SFCommunityCollegeBoard",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Community College Board",
"raceDescription": "Top four candidates win seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top4",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 823294,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Ruth Ferguson",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 114132
},
{
"candidateName": "Leanna C. Louie",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 50353
},
{
"candidateName": "Heather McCarty",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 162477
},
{
"candidateName": "Julio J. Ramos",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 38741
},
{
"candidateName": "Aliya Chisti",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 149638
},
{
"candidateName": "Ben Kaplan",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 49320
},
{
"candidateName": "Alan Wong",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 140951
},
{
"candidateName": "Luis Zamora",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 117682
}
]
},
"SFBARTBoardofDirectorsDistrict7": {
"id": "SFBARTBoardofDirectorsDistrict7",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "San Francisco Bay Area Rapid Transit District Director, District 7",
"raceDescription": "Top two candidates win seat. Includes votes from San Francisco and Alameda County.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 161254,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Victor E. Flores",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 92729
},
{
"candidateName": "Dana Lang",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 68525
}
]
},
"SFBARTBoardofDirectorsDistrict9": {
"id": "SFBARTBoardofDirectorsDistrict9",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "San Francisco Bay Area Rapid Transit District Director, District 9",
"raceDescription": "Top two candidates win seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 137871,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Edward Wright",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 86966
},
{
"candidateName": "Joe Sangirardi",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 50905
}
]
},
"SFMeasureA": {
"id": "SFMeasureA",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure A",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco Unified School District. School bond. Passes with 55% vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 377297,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 282968
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 94329
}
]
},
"SFMeasureB": {
"id": "SFMeasureB",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure B",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Community health and safety bond. Passes with 2/3 vote. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 376637,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 274187
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 102450
}
]
},
"SFMeasureC": {
"id": "SFMeasureC",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure C",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Inspector General position. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 370366,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 225704
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 144662
}
]
},
"SFMeasureD": {
"id": "SFMeasureD",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure D",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Commissions and mayoral authority. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 366327,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 158723
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 207604
}
]
},
"SFMeasureE": {
"id": "SFMeasureE",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure E",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Commissions task force. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 363854,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 192540
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 171314
}
]
},
"SFMeasureF": {
"id": "SFMeasureF",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure F",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Police pensions. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 361671,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 163835
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 197836
}
]
},
"SFMeasureG": {
"id": "SFMeasureG",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure G",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Affordable housing. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 370824,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 217807
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 153017
}
]
},
"SFMeasureH": {
"id": "SFMeasureH",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure H",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Firefighter pensions. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 365942,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 192601
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 173341
}
]
},
"SFMeasureI": {
"id": "SFMeasureI",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure I",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Nurse and 911 operator pensions. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 363459,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 261318
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 102141
}
]
},
"SFMeasureJ": {
"id": "SFMeasureJ",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure J",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. City spending. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 362785,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 297972
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 64813
}
]
},
"SFMeasureK": {
"id": "SFMeasureK",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure K",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Permanently closing Upper Great Highway to private vehicles. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 376489,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 206042
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 170447
}
]
},
"SFMeasureL": {
"id": "SFMeasureL",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure L",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Transportation network companies tax. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 369575,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 210375
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 159200
}
]
},
"SFMeasureM": {
"id": "SFMeasureM",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure M",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Business tax. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 342310,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 237930
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 104380
}
]
},
"SFMeasureN": {
"id": "SFMeasureN",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure N",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Student loan reimbursement. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 363432,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 187979
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 175453
}
]
},
"SFMeasureO": {
"id": "SFMeasureO",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Measure O",
"raceDescription": "San Francisco. Reproductive rights. Passes with majority vote.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "yesNo",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 373249,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Yes",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 312914
},
{
"candidateName": "No",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 60335
}
]
},
"SFMayorRound1": {
"id": "SFMayorRound1",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "San Francisco Mayor Round 1",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 390180,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "London Breed",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 95117
},
{
"candidateName": "Mark Farrell",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 72115
},
{
"candidateName": "Henry Flynn",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1319
},
{
"candidateName": "Keith Freedman",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2079
},
{
"candidateName": "Dylan Hirsch-Shell",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2897
},
{
"candidateName": "Daniel Lurie",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 102720
},
{
"candidateName": "Nelson Mei",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1791
},
{
"candidateName": "Aaron Peskin",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 89215
},
{
"candidateName": "Paul Robertson",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 812
},
{
"candidateName": "Ahsha Safai",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 11425
},
{
"candidateName": "Shahram Shariati",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1613
},
{
"candidateName": "Jon Soderstrom",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 412
},
{
"candidateName": "Ellen Zhou",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 8665
}
]
},
"SFMayorRound3": {
"id": "SFMayorRound3",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "San Francisco Mayor Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This is the latest ranked choice data provided by the Department of Elections office.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 331477,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "London Breed",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 149113
},
{
"candidateName": "Mark Farrell (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Henry Flynn (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Keith Freedman (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Dylan Hirsch-Shell (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Daniel Lurie",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 182364
},
{
"candidateName": "Nelson Mei (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Aaron Peskin (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Paul Robertson (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Ahsha Safai (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Shahram Shariati (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Jon Soderstrom (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Ellen Zhou (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
}
]
},
"SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict1": {
"id": "SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict1",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 1 Round One",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 35478,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Sherman D'Silva",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 899
},
{
"candidateName": "Marjan Philhour",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 14755
},
{
"candidateName": "Connie Chan",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 16670
},
{
"candidateName": "Jeremiah Boehner",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1344
},
{
"candidateName": "Jen Nossokoff",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1810
}
]
},
"SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict1FinalRound": {
"id": "SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict1FinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 1 Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This is the latest ranked choice data provided by the Department of Elections office.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 34299,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Sherman D'Silva (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Marjan Philhour",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 16499
},
{
"candidateName": "Connie Chan",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 17800
},
{
"candidateName": "Jeremiah Boehner (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Jen Nossokoff (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
}
]
},
"SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict3": {
"id": "SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict3",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 3 Round One",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 28758,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Sharon Lai",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 8489
},
{
"candidateName": "Moe Jamil",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3753
},
{
"candidateName": "Wendy Ha Chau",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1565
},
{
"candidateName": "Eduard Navarro",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 879
},
{
"candidateName": "Danny Sauter",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 11272
},
{
"candidateName": "Matthew Susk",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2800
}
]
},
"SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict3FinalRound": {
"id": "SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict3FinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 3 Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This is the latest ranked choice data provided by the Department of Elections office.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 25568,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Sharon Lai",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 11512
},
{
"candidateName": "Moe Jamil (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Wendy Ha Chau (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Eduard Navarro (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Danny Sauter",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 14056
},
{
"candidateName": "Matthew Susk (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
}
]
},
"SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict5": {
"id": "SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict5",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 5",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result reflects redistributed votes. The results of the instant runoff will change as more first-choice votes are counted.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 29698,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Autumn Hope Looijen",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2606
},
{
"candidateName": "Bilal Mahmood",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 11840
},
{
"candidateName": "Scotty Jacobs",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2796
},
{
"candidateName": "Allen Jones",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 444
},
{
"candidateName": "Dean Preston",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 12012
}
]
},
"SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict5FinalRound": {
"id": "SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict5FinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 5 Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This is the latest ranked choice data provided by the Department of Elections office.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 27818,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Autumn Hope Looijen (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Bilal Mahmood",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 14741
},
{
"candidateName": "Scotty Jacobs (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Allen Jones (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Dean Preston",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 13077
}
]
},
"SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict7": {
"id": "SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict7",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 7 Round One",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 37318,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Myrna Melgar",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 17532
},
{
"candidateName": "Stephen Martin-Pinto",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5135
},
{
"candidateName": "Edward S. Yee",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1244
},
{
"candidateName": "Matt Boschetto",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 13407
}
]
},
"SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict7FinalRound": {
"id": "SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict7FinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 7 Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This is the latest ranked choice data provided by the Department of Elections office.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 35412,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Myrna Melgar",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 18916
},
{
"candidateName": "Stephen Martin-Pinto (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Edward S. Yee (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Matt Boschetto",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 16496
}
]
},
"SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict9": {
"id": "SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict9",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 9 Round One",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 32731,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Jackie Fielder",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 13844
},
{
"candidateName": "Stephen Jon Torres",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1140
},
{
"candidateName": "Roberto Hernandez",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6606
},
{
"candidateName": "Jaime Gutierrez",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 931
},
{
"candidateName": "Trevor Chandler",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 9042
},
{
"candidateName": "Julian Bermudez",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 600
},
{
"candidateName": "H. Brown",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 568
}
]
},
"SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict9FinalRound": {
"id": "SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict9FinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 9 Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This is the latest ranked choice data provided by the Department of Elections office.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 29409,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Jackie Fielder",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 17546
},
{
"candidateName": "Stephen Jon Torres (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Roberto Hernandez (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Jaime Gutierrez (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Trevor Chandler",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 11863
},
{
"candidateName": "Julian Bermudez (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "H. Brown (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
}
]
},
"SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict11": {
"id": "SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict11",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 11 First Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This result only reflects voters’ first-choice candidate. If votes are redistributed in an instant runoff, they are not reflected in this result.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 27928,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Oscar Flores",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 2896
},
{
"candidateName": "Michael Lai",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 8675
},
{
"candidateName": "Roger Marenco",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 604
},
{
"candidateName": "Jose Morales",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 629
},
{
"candidateName": "Ernest “EJ” Jones",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5441
},
{
"candidateName": "Adlah Chisti",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1434
},
{
"candidateName": "Chyanne Chen",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 8249
}
]
},
"SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict11FinalRound": {
"id": "SFBoardofSupervisorsDistrict11FinalRound",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Board of Supervisors, District 11 Final Round",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. This is the latest ranked choice data provided by the Department of Elections office.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 23804,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Oscar Flores (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Michael Lai",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 11803
},
{
"candidateName": "Roger Marenco (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Jose Morales (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Ernest “EJ” Jones (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Adlah Chisti (eliminated)",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 0
},
{
"candidateName": "Chyanne Chen",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 12001
}
]
},
"SFCityAttorney": {
"id": "SFCityAttorney",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "City Attorney ",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 329174,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "David Chiu",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 272857
},
{
"candidateName": "Richard T. Woon",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 56317
}
]
},
"SFDistrictAttorney": {
"id": "SFDistrictAttorney",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "District Attorney",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 347374,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Brooke Jenkins ",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 228999
},
{
"candidateName": "Ryan Khojasteh",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 118375
}
]
},
"SFSheriff": {
"id": "SFSheriff",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Sheriff ",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 314864,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Michael Juan",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 63768
},
{
"candidateName": "Paul Miyamoto",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 251096
}
]
},
"SFTreasurer": {
"id": "SFTreasurer",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Francisco",
"raceName": "Treasurer ",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat. ",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:55 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 300411,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "José Cisneros",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 300411
}
]
},
"SMCountyBoardofEducationTrusteeArea4": {
"id": "SMCountyBoardofEducationTrusteeArea4",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Mateo",
"raceName": "County Board of Education, Trustee Area 4",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 36397,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Priya Hays",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 10568
},
{
"candidateName": "Chelsea Bonini",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 25829
}
]
},
"SMCountyBoardofEducationTrusteeArea5": {
"id": "SMCountyBoardofEducationTrusteeArea5",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Mateo",
"raceName": "County Board of Education, Trustee Area 5",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 41938,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Maurice Goodman",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 14615
},
{
"candidateName": "Mike O’Neill",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 27323
}
]
},
"SMCountyBoardofEducationTrusteeArea6": {
"id": "SMCountyBoardofEducationTrusteeArea6",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Mateo",
"raceName": "County Board of Education, Trustee Area 6",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 39921,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Patricia Love",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 28085
},
{
"candidateName": "Ester Adut",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 11836
}
]
},
"SMSanMateoCountyCommunityCollegeDistrictGoverningBoardTrusteeArea1": {
"id": "SMSanMateoCountyCommunityCollegeDistrictGoverningBoardTrusteeArea1",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Mateo",
"raceName": "San Mateo County Community College District, Governing Board, Trustee Area 1",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 64091,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Keith Holden",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 20270
},
{
"candidateName": "Lisa A. Petrides",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 43821
}
]
},
"SMCabrilloUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardTrusteeAreaB": {
"id": "SMCabrilloUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardTrusteeAreaB",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Mateo",
"raceName": "Cabrillo Unified School District, Governing Board, Trustee Area B",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 2539,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Breanna Lafontaine",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1614
},
{
"candidateName": "Glenn Wilson",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 925
}
]
},
"SMCabrilloUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardTrusteeAreaD": {
"id": "SMCabrilloUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardTrusteeAreaD",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Mateo",
"raceName": "Cabrillo Unified School District, Governing Board, Trustee Area D",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 2588,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Sophia Layne",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 847
},
{
"candidateName": "Peter Cerneka",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1741
}
]
},
"SMSouthSanFranciscoUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardTrusteeAreaA": {
"id": "SMSouthSanFranciscoUnifiedSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardTrusteeAreaA",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Mateo",
"raceName": "South San Francisco Unified School District, Governing Board, Trustee Area A",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 5144,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Patricia “Pat” Murray",
"candidateIncumbent": true,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 4019
},
{
"candidateName": "Samuel M. Chetcuti",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1125
}
]
},
"SMSequoiaUnionHighSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardTrusteeAreaB": {
"id": "SMSequoiaUnionHighSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardTrusteeAreaB",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Mateo",
"raceName": "Sequoia Union High School District, Governing Board, Trustee Area B",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 22237,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Mary Beth Thompson",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 14181
},
{
"candidateName": "Daniel Torunian",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1976
},
{
"candidateName": "Jacob Yuryev",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 6080
}
]
},
"SMSequoiaUnionHighSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardTrusteeAreaE": {
"id": "SMSequoiaUnionHighSchoolDistrictGoverningBoardTrusteeAreaE",
"type": "localRace",
"location": "San Mateo",
"raceName": "Sequoia Union High School District, Governing Board, Trustee Area E",
"raceDescription": "Top candidate wins seat.",
"raceReadTheStory": "",
"raceType": "top1",
"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
"totalVotes": 10513,
"candidates": [
{
"candidateName": "Tonga Victoria Afuhaamango",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 3128
},
{
"candidateName": "Maria E. Cruz",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 5569
},
{
"candidateName": "Jon Bryant",
"candidateIncumbent": false,
"candidateParty": "",
"voteCount": 1816
}
]
},
"SMBrisbaneSchoolDistrictGoverningBoard": {
"id": "SMBrisbaneSchoolDistrictGoverningBoard",
"type": "localRace",
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"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
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"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
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"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:16 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 3, 2024",
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"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
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"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
"dateUpdated": "Dec 5, 2024",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
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"timeUpdated": "7:54 PM",
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]
},
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{
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