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"content": "\u003cp>Search and rescue crews have recovered all nine bodies of those killed in last Tuesday’s avalanche in Tahoe, which is now the deadliest in California’s modern history. Four of the victims were women from the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>KQED’s Sarah Wright explains what we know so far, and how this tragedy highlights the Bay Area’s deep ties to outdoor recreation in Tahoe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"list-style-type: none\">\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12074158/tahoe-avalanche-backcountry-101-castle-peak-frog-lake-donner-summit-weather\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After Deadly Tahoe Avalanche, Backcountry Skiing Is Under Scrutiny. Here’s What to Know\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12074292/all-9-tahoe-avalanche-victims-identified-and-bodies-recovered\">All 9 Tahoe Avalanche Victims Identified and Bodies Recovered\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC7238004001\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:00] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cb>Singers sing Amazing Grace\u003c/b>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over the weekend, more than 100 people gathered in the town of Truckee near Lake Tahoe to mourn the victims in what’s become the deadliest avalanche in California’s modern history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Courtney Henderson: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:26] \u003c/em>On a cold night, in the middle of so much heartbreak, you all came. That is exactly who this community is.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:38] \u003c/em>Four of the nine people who died in last Tuesday’s avalanche were from the Bay Area. They’ve been described as mothers, wives, and friends who connected through their love of the outdoors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Courtney Henderson: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:53] \u003c/em>The families carrying those losses bear a weight that is unbearable. What we know is that however that grief is held tonight, it will not be held alone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:10] \u003c/em>Today, the latest on the Tahoe Avalanche and the Bay Area’s close ties with Tahoe’s outdoor community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:30] \u003c/em>My first reaction being from Tahoe was, oh no, who do I know?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:37] \u003c/em>Sarah Wright covers the outdoors for KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:42] \u003c/em>There’s a lot of people I know who backcountry ski, or people who I follow on social media who back country ski, and I was immediately thinking, which person who I’ve seen this beautiful video or commented on a wonderful photo just had the worst possible outcome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:03] \u003c/em>What a feeling to be seeing the news and be wondering if you know any of those people personally. I mean, what do we know about the victims?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:15] \u003c/em>This was a guided group of 15 people out on a three-day backcountry skiing trip to the Frog Lake Huts, which is up in Tahoe by Donner Summit. What we know so far is that there were nine victims of this avalanche and six survivors. Among the nine victims, three of them were guides with this guided trip that everybody was on and the remaining six were clients. And of those clients. They were all women, primarily in their 40s and 50s, and many of them were from the Bay Area. They’re experienced backcountry skiers. They go on trips like these every single year. It appeared that this was like a fully scheduled and advanced trip. They were looking forward to it. And so this was just obviously a huge shock to their families.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:03:07] \u003c/em>Let’s talk a little bit about what happened and what we know about what happens so far. Where the avalanche occurred is this place called Castle… Peak. Castle Peak. Is this a pretty popular place to go back country skiing?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:03:21] \u003c/em>Yeah. So it’s in the Tahoe National Forest and it’s just north of Highway 80. So if you’ve ever been up to Tahoe, like you’ve probably passed by it, not even realizing. But especially, I mean, I talked to the mayor of Truckee on a close dot and she said a lot of Trukkee residents recreate in this area all the time. Truckees sits at the base of Donner Summit and you can see Castle Peak from most of Trukee. So, it’s very close to our community. It’s one of those places that is actually not super far from Highway 80, a major interstate, but feels very remote when you’re out there because it’s up in the high elevation and it’s just really gorgeous, high alpine environment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:07] \u003c/em>How rare was an avalanche like this there? Like, was it unexpected?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:13] \u003c/em>Avalanches are possible and quite common in areas like this. It’s not like you can predict avalanches, but the Sierra Avalanche Center does issue high, moderate, and otherwise avalanche warnings and alerts and advisories. And in this case, on Tuesday morning, they had issued a high avalanch risk warning. We knew that this storm was going to come in and that it was going be a big one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:47] \u003c/em>I mean, for people who aren’t familiar or don’t recreate in this area, what even is backcountry skiing and how is that different from regular skiing?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:58] \u003c/em>If you’re regular skiing, you’re probably at a ski resort. There’s ski patrol that’s patrolling the entirety of the resort, there’s certain trails and certain lifts that are open and closed depending on conditions. You are kind of entering into an agreement with that resort that they’re going to do the best they can to protect you. The major difference with backcountry skiing is that there is no resort, no ski patrol, you are in charge of your own safety. You’re out in wilderness area. And you are basically there ensuring your own safety. It’s actually a really cool sport. It’s a really wonderful sport. It allows people to go skiing and to go explore wilderness that they normally wouldn’t be able to. And it’s very rewarding because you can be out there and just feel completely alone in a way that’s very fun and empowering and beautiful. I don’t backcountry ski myself, but I do hike. And camp in the backcountry a lot, so I’m familiar with this feeling of only having to go a little ways to get a big experience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:16] \u003c/em>I guess as someone from Tahoe, what have the conversations in your circles been like in the wake of the avalanche?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:24] \u003c/em>Yeah, I’ve seen a lot of people talk about what would I have done in this scenario. I feel like what I’ve been seeing is the people that know the least have the most to say and the people who know the most. All they can say is this is part of the tragedy of this sport. And, you know, this is just a very, very sad incident and a lot of experts even saying like, I have been in situations like this and I got lucky.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kevin Cooper: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:51] \u003c/em>We have to learn from this. We have use it as a learning experience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:54] \u003c/em>Kevin Cooper is a long-time backcountry skier, and he’s ingrained in the local ski industry. And so he kind of really warned people that the backcountry is not a safe place to be. And if you’re going to go out there, you have to basically do everything you can to to mitigate your risk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kevin Cooper: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:12] \u003c/em>Were they out there in the back country because, you know, this was going to be an experience to ski fresh snow? Yes. But what were the signals that Mother Nature was sending in the National Weather Service and the Sierra Avalanche Center was putting out there that they could have made a little bit different of a decision? And I’m not here to judge anybody. I was not there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:32] \u003c/em>And some of his advice is, like many, to take courses, to get educated, and to basically commit to this lifelong practice of learning about the backcountry and about avalanche safety. There is a long history of education of how to do this sport safely, as safely as possible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kevin Cooper: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:53] \u003c/em>You can’t just take the course and graduate and get the sheep skin and think, ‘I’m the back country expert.’ It takes years of knowledge to understand snow, snow loads, wind loading, all the different conditions mother nature puts out there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:09] \u003c/em>That said, I think everybody is going to learn from this incident once we have more details about the decisions they did make. This will be taught in avalanche courses. It’s the deadliest modern avalanches in California history. The folks who teach back country courses and lead these back country guiding expeditions, they will be looking at their curriculum, their training, their preparation. And revising it based on the information that comes out of this incident.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:40] \u003c/em>So what now, Sarah? I understand there’s an investigation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:45] \u003c/em>Both Cal OSHA and the Nevada County Sheriff’s Office have launched separate investigations into the guiding company. They’re looking for any evidence of criminal negligence. Just by launching an investigation doesn’t mean there is any evidence of that, but that’s part of their role moving forward. And I think from here the biggest thing is that, you know, once the survivors are ready to tell their story, and once more details are released by the sheriff’s office about their communication with the guides and with the guiding company, that’s going to reveal a lot about what decisions were made and when, and kind of just any failure points in their decision-making tree, as we call it. And, you know, once we hear from the survivors, I imagine that will be an extremely powerful and very scary account of what happened.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:09:50] \u003c/em>Tahoe is not the Bay, Sarah, but obviously there is a very direct Bay Area connection to this story. Some of the victims being moms from the Bay Area. And there seems to be this very tight connection between the Bay area and Tahoe. I mean, I know schools here in the Bay Area have ‘ski week.’ Can you talk a little bit about that connection between the two communities?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:14] \u003c/em>Yeah, absolutely. I’m an example of that. In fact, my family lived in the Bay Area and chose to move to Tahoe in order to be able to ski and hike and live where they were recreating every weekend. I think there are a lot of families, and this was the case with some of the families who ended up victims of this avalanche. They were up at Tahoe every weekend. You know, they’re these sort of weekend warrior types. It’s super common to see people who are really committed to these outdoor sports or just like love the nature of the place to be up there. I actually spoke last month to Nina O’Brien, she’s an alpine ski racer who was at the Olympics this month. And she grew up as a weekend warrior, grew up in San Francisco going to Tahoe every single weekend to train and she made the Olympics. So this is like a huge, a huge side of the Bay Area. I know also talking to the Truckee community, like some guides were local to that area. So they’re mourning not only, you know, their own. Residents, but also, you know, we get to know the regular visitors and the folks who choose to make Tahoe their second home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:33] \u003c/em>Well, Sarah, thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us. I appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:36] \u003c/em>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:00] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003cb>Singers sing Amazing Grace\u003c/b>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over the weekend, more than 100 people gathered in the town of Truckee near Lake Tahoe to mourn the victims in what’s become the deadliest avalanche in California’s modern history.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Courtney Henderson: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:26] \u003c/em>On a cold night, in the middle of so much heartbreak, you all came. That is exactly who this community is.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:38] \u003c/em>Four of the nine people who died in last Tuesday’s avalanche were from the Bay Area. They’ve been described as mothers, wives, and friends who connected through their love of the outdoors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Courtney Henderson: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:53] \u003c/em>The families carrying those losses bear a weight that is unbearable. What we know is that however that grief is held tonight, it will not be held alone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:10] \u003c/em>Today, the latest on the Tahoe Avalanche and the Bay Area’s close ties with Tahoe’s outdoor community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:30] \u003c/em>My first reaction being from Tahoe was, oh no, who do I know?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:37] \u003c/em>Sarah Wright covers the outdoors for KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:42] \u003c/em>There’s a lot of people I know who backcountry ski, or people who I follow on social media who back country ski, and I was immediately thinking, which person who I’ve seen this beautiful video or commented on a wonderful photo just had the worst possible outcome.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:03] \u003c/em>What a feeling to be seeing the news and be wondering if you know any of those people personally. I mean, what do we know about the victims?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:15] \u003c/em>This was a guided group of 15 people out on a three-day backcountry skiing trip to the Frog Lake Huts, which is up in Tahoe by Donner Summit. What we know so far is that there were nine victims of this avalanche and six survivors. Among the nine victims, three of them were guides with this guided trip that everybody was on and the remaining six were clients. And of those clients. They were all women, primarily in their 40s and 50s, and many of them were from the Bay Area. They’re experienced backcountry skiers. They go on trips like these every single year. It appeared that this was like a fully scheduled and advanced trip. They were looking forward to it. And so this was just obviously a huge shock to their families.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:03:07] \u003c/em>Let’s talk a little bit about what happened and what we know about what happens so far. Where the avalanche occurred is this place called Castle… Peak. Castle Peak. Is this a pretty popular place to go back country skiing?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:03:21] \u003c/em>Yeah. So it’s in the Tahoe National Forest and it’s just north of Highway 80. So if you’ve ever been up to Tahoe, like you’ve probably passed by it, not even realizing. But especially, I mean, I talked to the mayor of Truckee on a close dot and she said a lot of Trukkee residents recreate in this area all the time. Truckees sits at the base of Donner Summit and you can see Castle Peak from most of Trukee. So, it’s very close to our community. It’s one of those places that is actually not super far from Highway 80, a major interstate, but feels very remote when you’re out there because it’s up in the high elevation and it’s just really gorgeous, high alpine environment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:07] \u003c/em>How rare was an avalanche like this there? Like, was it unexpected?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:13] \u003c/em>Avalanches are possible and quite common in areas like this. It’s not like you can predict avalanches, but the Sierra Avalanche Center does issue high, moderate, and otherwise avalanche warnings and alerts and advisories. And in this case, on Tuesday morning, they had issued a high avalanch risk warning. We knew that this storm was going to come in and that it was going be a big one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:47] \u003c/em>I mean, for people who aren’t familiar or don’t recreate in this area, what even is backcountry skiing and how is that different from regular skiing?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:58] \u003c/em>If you’re regular skiing, you’re probably at a ski resort. There’s ski patrol that’s patrolling the entirety of the resort, there’s certain trails and certain lifts that are open and closed depending on conditions. You are kind of entering into an agreement with that resort that they’re going to do the best they can to protect you. The major difference with backcountry skiing is that there is no resort, no ski patrol, you are in charge of your own safety. You’re out in wilderness area. And you are basically there ensuring your own safety. It’s actually a really cool sport. It’s a really wonderful sport. It allows people to go skiing and to go explore wilderness that they normally wouldn’t be able to. And it’s very rewarding because you can be out there and just feel completely alone in a way that’s very fun and empowering and beautiful. I don’t backcountry ski myself, but I do hike. And camp in the backcountry a lot, so I’m familiar with this feeling of only having to go a little ways to get a big experience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:16] \u003c/em>I guess as someone from Tahoe, what have the conversations in your circles been like in the wake of the avalanche?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:24] \u003c/em>Yeah, I’ve seen a lot of people talk about what would I have done in this scenario. I feel like what I’ve been seeing is the people that know the least have the most to say and the people who know the most. All they can say is this is part of the tragedy of this sport. And, you know, this is just a very, very sad incident and a lot of experts even saying like, I have been in situations like this and I got lucky.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kevin Cooper: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:51] \u003c/em>We have to learn from this. We have use it as a learning experience.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:54] \u003c/em>Kevin Cooper is a long-time backcountry skier, and he’s ingrained in the local ski industry. And so he kind of really warned people that the backcountry is not a safe place to be. And if you’re going to go out there, you have to basically do everything you can to to mitigate your risk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kevin Cooper: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:12] \u003c/em>Were they out there in the back country because, you know, this was going to be an experience to ski fresh snow? Yes. But what were the signals that Mother Nature was sending in the National Weather Service and the Sierra Avalanche Center was putting out there that they could have made a little bit different of a decision? And I’m not here to judge anybody. I was not there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:32] \u003c/em>And some of his advice is, like many, to take courses, to get educated, and to basically commit to this lifelong practice of learning about the backcountry and about avalanche safety. There is a long history of education of how to do this sport safely, as safely as possible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Kevin Cooper: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:53] \u003c/em>You can’t just take the course and graduate and get the sheep skin and think, ‘I’m the back country expert.’ It takes years of knowledge to understand snow, snow loads, wind loading, all the different conditions mother nature puts out there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:09] \u003c/em>That said, I think everybody is going to learn from this incident once we have more details about the decisions they did make. This will be taught in avalanche courses. It’s the deadliest modern avalanches in California history. The folks who teach back country courses and lead these back country guiding expeditions, they will be looking at their curriculum, their training, their preparation. And revising it based on the information that comes out of this incident.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:40] \u003c/em>So what now, Sarah? I understand there’s an investigation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:45] \u003c/em>Both Cal OSHA and the Nevada County Sheriff’s Office have launched separate investigations into the guiding company. They’re looking for any evidence of criminal negligence. Just by launching an investigation doesn’t mean there is any evidence of that, but that’s part of their role moving forward. And I think from here the biggest thing is that, you know, once the survivors are ready to tell their story, and once more details are released by the sheriff’s office about their communication with the guides and with the guiding company, that’s going to reveal a lot about what decisions were made and when, and kind of just any failure points in their decision-making tree, as we call it. And, you know, once we hear from the survivors, I imagine that will be an extremely powerful and very scary account of what happened.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:09:50] \u003c/em>Tahoe is not the Bay, Sarah, but obviously there is a very direct Bay Area connection to this story. Some of the victims being moms from the Bay Area. And there seems to be this very tight connection between the Bay area and Tahoe. I mean, I know schools here in the Bay Area have ‘ski week.’ Can you talk a little bit about that connection between the two communities?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:14] \u003c/em>Yeah, absolutely. I’m an example of that. In fact, my family lived in the Bay Area and chose to move to Tahoe in order to be able to ski and hike and live where they were recreating every weekend. I think there are a lot of families, and this was the case with some of the families who ended up victims of this avalanche. They were up at Tahoe every weekend. You know, they’re these sort of weekend warrior types. It’s super common to see people who are really committed to these outdoor sports or just like love the nature of the place to be up there. I actually spoke last month to Nina O’Brien, she’s an alpine ski racer who was at the Olympics this month. And she grew up as a weekend warrior, grew up in San Francisco going to Tahoe every single weekend to train and she made the Olympics. So this is like a huge, a huge side of the Bay Area. I know also talking to the Truckee community, like some guides were local to that area. So they’re mourning not only, you know, their own. Residents, but also, you know, we get to know the regular visitors and the folks who choose to make Tahoe their second home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:33] \u003c/em>Well, Sarah, thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us. I appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sarah Wright: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:36] \u003c/em>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"slug": "the-payphone-that-lets-san-franciscans-call-a-republican",
"title": "The Pay Phone That Lets San Franciscans ‘Call a Republican’",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For several weeks, a red pay phone sat outside a tattoo parlor in San Francisco’s Mission District — with a sign reading ‘Call a Republican.’ If you picked it up, a blue pay phone with the sign ‘Call a Democrat’ in the conservative city of Abilene, Texas would ring.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This project, created by a company called Matter Neuroscience, aimed to connect Americans from vastly different backgrounds via the old-fashioned phone. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Links:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"list-style-type: none\">\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12073446/what-happens-when-democrats-in-san-francisco-call-up-republicans-in-texas-its-pretty-cordial\">What Happens When Democrats in San Francisco Call Up Republicans in Texas? It’s Pretty Cordial | KQED\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC5345988675\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. For weeks outside of a tattoo shop in San Francisco’s Mission District, an old school payphone painted red could be heard ringing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hello? Hey, this is Chris calling from San Francisco. Who am I speaking with?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On top of the payphone was a sign inviting people walking by to ‘Call a Republican.’ The phone connected to a nearly identical phone booth in Abilene, Texas, except for the sign that read ‘Call a Democrat.’ And it’s all part of a social experiment called The Party Line.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ben Goldhirsh: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so it was sort of a social experiment to see what would people choose, common ground or conflict. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Studies show that most American voters are pretty pessimistic that we can overcome our country’s deep political divides. So today, we’re gonna talk with KQED reporter Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman about this social experiment and listen in on conversations between residents of San Francisco and Abilene, Texas. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the payphone is a project of Matter Neuroscience. That’s a tech startup in Boulder, Colorado.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman is a reporter for KQED. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And their mission is basically just to try to help people live more emotionally balanced lives. One example of that is that they’re in clinical trials at Stanford right now, trying to help people with depression who aren’t responding to traditional treatments. But they also do these sort of like side quest projects. For instance, one was they prototype this six pound phone case to prevent people from doom scrolling. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So basically the phone case was so heavy that it was just physically impossible to sit there.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah, to do the infinite scroll on your phone. But the common thread here with the payphone is that they’re trying to get people away from habits that are bad for our emotional health. So the idea with this payphone is how can we get people to connect in a way that’s emotionally positive and healthy for our brains?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How does the payphone work exactly? So there’s one in San Francisco and then another elsewhere in the country?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Basically, Matter Neuroscience bought two payphones on Facebook Marketplace, ripped out their guts, and outfitted them with SIM cards that basically turned them into cell phones. And they put one in San Francisco, and they put another in Abilene, Texas. So the idea was to connect two very politically different parts of our country. So San Francisco voted heavily for Kamala Harris in the 2024 presidential election. Abilene, Texas voted heavily for Donald Trump. Both cities are over 100,000 residents, so that was sort of the thinking of connecting America’s most, you know, I’m saying this in air quotes, most conservative city and most liberal city. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Audio from outside the payphone:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Is anybody picking up? No. Oh, darn. That’s too bad. It might take a while. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so what happens is if you pick up the phone in San Francisco, it rings the phone in Texas. And the phone in Texas is located outside a bookstore in Abilene. Same thing, if you pick up the phone in Texas, it’ll ring the payphone in San Francisco.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And you just wait basically for someone to pick up on the other side.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, you pick it up, it calls, and then it rings on the other side. And I was standing outside the payphone for a while and there were times when it was ringing and nobody picked up. There were other times when people walked by and they decided to pick it up.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m so curious about the conversations that you heard folks having and also who was interested and engaging with this payphone. I know you met a woman named Maria out there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, so Maria Gonzalez is a lifelong San Franciscan, lives pretty close to the payphone, and she was walking by, heard a ring, and decided to pick it up. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Gonzalez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh my gosh, really? Where? Where are you at? Oh, you just told me where you’re at. Yeah. You need to get out here.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She ended up finding a Democrat in Texas or the person who called was a Democrat wanting to sort of commiserate about you know politics and say oh you know I want to be where you are essentially.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Gonzalez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was nice to speak to somebody and we had similar ways of looking at life and so, you know, I mean every time you pick up the phone it’s going to be a different experience. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She told me that the conversation that she had reminded her of sort of her own difficulties in her family speaking with the family members who are supporters of President Trump. She said her uncle is a quote Trumpster and that she tries to maintain a relationship with him but it’s hard. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Gonzalez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So we have these discussions every time we speak, you know, and I love my uncle, I just don’t, we just don’t agree in our political views. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is something that I think a lot of people feel is that it can be difficult to talk about politics when people have different views.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Gonzalez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think that we need something like this for sure. I was born and raised in San Francisco, so I grew up around a lot of different people with different ethnicities, going to different people’s houses and having food with them and experiencing their life. And I think that’s the best way that you can open up your mind if you live amongst people that are different from you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another man named Stephen Albert said that his twin sister is a Trump supporter and that he was put on this earth to cancel out her vote. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So we’re gonna play and listen to a snippet from a phone call between a 46 year old man in San Francisco and it turns out a 46-year-old woman in Abilene, Texas.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hello, I’m Steve. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. Hi, Steve.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What’s up? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nothing much. Just looking for books. Classic books.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well this says ‘Call a Republican.’ Are you a Republican? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, I am.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You are?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yes, probably an independent I would say as I’ve got older independent Are you, what are you? Are you a Republican? Are you a Democrat? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh god, I don’t, I don’t I mean I live in San Francisco, you know.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So yeah, so you’re liberal, that’s fine. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m pretty liberal. Okay. Yeah Yeah, I… do you see the world as crazy as I do? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I do, worse and worse every day. It’s getting worse every day.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">See we have so much in common.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know, we do.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I love this clip so much because I feel like it’s so awkward in the beginning. They’re like, are you a liberal? I am a liberal. And then you feel this like sigh of relief when they both agree that the world is crazy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, they’re sort of tiptoeing around each other at the beginning, like being like, is this okay? And then they both like say like, yeah, I’m willing to have a conversation with you. And I thought it was interesting that the woman was like, you know, I am kind of Republican, but I’m kind of an independent. You know, there’s some of that nuance that you might not get in an online conversation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like I’m out here in the middle of the day and I’m about to have a delicious tuna salad sandwich and you’re shopping for books and neither of us are at work. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I’m a stay-at-home mom, so I don’t work. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re a stay at home mom? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, with four kids. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Four kids?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh my God, how old are you? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m 46. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m also 46. I have no kids. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You have no kids… Hey, you’re living the life then, let me tell you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I am living the live. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m tied down forever. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, but you love it, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I do love it. I do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re also having the AI here, did you know that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>I did not know that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, so they’re building a huge AI center here. It’s one of the biggest in the, I guess in the world is coming, or they’ve already been building it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A data center?\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, that’s right. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Is that a positive impact? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I would say there’s a lot more traffic. There’s a lotta more traffic\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it probably, what, takes a lot of energy and water to run a place like that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh yeah, it’s going to be very interesting when it’s all done, what happens. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, it’s probably not being done for our benefit, is it?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, probably not.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I love that they’re like learning from each other in this conversation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, and having, finding a commonality again, like San Francisco, we sort of live in the shadow of AI, and then right down there on Main Street, Texas, you’ve also got AI’s influence coming. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And you can hear her bringing it up because she knows that. She knows that him living in San Francisco is like, yeah, you live in AI capital of the world and it’s here too. Okay, and here’s another conversation between, as it turns out, two progressives. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hello? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 3: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hello. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh my gosh, Texas, and hell yeah. What’s it like over there? I’m a little scared for you guys. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 3: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, it’s OK. You’re in California? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, San Francisco. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 3: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh my god, I always wanted to go there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, it’s amazing. What can I say, queer? Quite queer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 3: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, okay, so I have to tell you, I’m not a Republican.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, okay, okay. I was testing. That was a test. The queer thing was a task. I knew instantly when you said you wanted to go to San Francisco.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 3: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, well, I have a trans, I have a trans child, so, yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Of course, of course. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 3: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have to say it quietly. I have say it really quietly.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, yeah, I’d imagine, I would imagine. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh my god, I just love their energy. They’re just like, they just sound like two girls on the phone.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 3: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s all gonna be okay, it’s all going to be okay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, it’s all going to be okay. There’s so many amazing people in the world all across, no matter what state you’re in. The people of Texas, there’s some great hard-working people in Texas that you are ready to do the work to really turn some stuff around. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 3: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s right. We’re going to get there. We are going to go there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, and I believe in you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s like, it’s very fun. It’s a very odd situation when you’re put on the phone with a stranger and tasked with having a conversation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, it’s like that element of surprise that’s kind of fun. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like mystery box.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah right. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think another thing that you’re hearing is like, not everyone in Abilene is a Republican and not everyone in San Francisco is a Democrat. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m glad I got to hear you. This is so beautiful. I don’t even know exactly what this phone thing is, but I, I, this is awesome. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 3: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s awesome. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I talked to the bookstore owner in Texas and she said, yeah, a lot of the Democrats and Abilene have been like coming out of the woodwork and seeking out this payphone trying to find like-minded people, which could be sort of a little more challenging there. And in the same way, she said she’s picked up calls where San Francisco Republicans are calling looking to talk to like-minded folk. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, did you pick up the phone and try to talk to anyone? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I did. And you know, I have my journalist hat on, so people are like, well, are you a Republican or a Democrat? I’m like, I’m sort of a journalist. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m a journalist.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m not really supposed to have a political view when I’m working, but I did experience that same feeling of like, you’re a person in Texas and I grew up in San Francisco, I’ve lived here almost my whole life. I’ve never been to Texas. What’s that like? Like we’re part of the same country. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I do wonder, Azul, just like after hearing some of these phone calls, I’m sure there were many, many more that we haven’t listened to, but do the folks who put this payphone out there, do they think that it did what it was supposed to do? Like, did it work? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the payphones were up for a month and they recorded around 200 conversations. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ben Goldhirsh: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What ended up happening was quite beautiful and quite affirming. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I spoke to Ben Goldhirsh, he’s a co-founder of Matter Neuroscience, and he said listening to these conversations has been incredibly meaningful for him. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ben Goldhirsh: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Whatever the human topic is that allows us to actually connect, that’s what people gravitate towards. And people also gravitated away from kind of broad brushstrokes, like, oh, I’m a Republican, but don’t think that all of my positions are all on the right. I also believe in X and Y on the left side. I think people really pronounced the nuanced reality of their existence. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, small sample size. Can we draw major conclusions from these conversations? I can’t say, but to him, I think it is proof that when people take the time to connect in a healthier way, there can be positive benefits. So when we get offline, we get on the phone or talk to somebody in person, it can be beneficial for us as humans and we can sort of break down some of these barriers that we might construct that prevent us from relating to each other. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ben Goldhirsh: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think if you pulled an alien that was looking at America from, you know, a million miles away who was just digesting our news and our social media, and you said, hey, like, evaluate how far apart these people are, I think it would be reasonable to set a pretty wide delta. And I think when that alien listens to these conversations, they’ll be like, a lot of these are buds. These folks are all buds. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So they took the payphones down on Wednesday, right? Wednesday of last week. Do they plan to do this again? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Matter Neuroscience told me that they’re looking at other applications for the payphones that could have similar benefits for different populations. One idea is a senior center and a college campus to sort of unite people across generations. And the other idea is to go international with it. Unite people from different countries.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Did you feel like it worked on you? I mean, like the purpose of this payphone. Are you convinced? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One question I have about this project is that, you know, there were around 200 conversations. This is a drop in the bucket compared to how many billions of people use social media every day. And this project was literally based on a payphone, like a piece of tech that does not exist anymore largely. It’s definitely going against the prevailing headwinds of how we’re communicating and how we are. The methods we’re increasingly turning to to get information out. But there is a lot of research to say that like social connection is good for us. And I did feel, I felt good when I talked to the payphone and it felt good to listen to people talking and it feel good to listened to these conversations. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah and especially I feel like in this like world where we’re presumably more connected than ever with social media and stuff but actually like sometimes you just need to pick up the phone and talk to someone. Well Azul, this was such a fun story, thank you so much for sharing it with us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, happy to be here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Payphone sound: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You are now being connected to the party line in Abilene, Texas. Participants must be 18 or older. This call may be recorded for use in a public project. By staying on the line, you consent…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman, a reporter for KQED. This conversation was cut down and edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. Gabriela Glueck produced this episode, scored it, and added all the tape, music courtesy of Audio Network. Support for The Bay is provided in part by the Osher Production Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild. American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, thank you so much for listening. Talk to you next time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For several weeks, a red pay phone sat outside a tattoo parlor in San Francisco’s Mission District — with a sign reading ‘Call a Republican.’ If you picked it up, a blue pay phone with the sign ‘Call a Democrat’ in the conservative city of Abilene, Texas would ring.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This project, created by a company called Matter Neuroscience, aimed to connect Americans from vastly different backgrounds via the old-fashioned phone. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Links:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"list-style-type: none\">\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12073446/what-happens-when-democrats-in-san-francisco-call-up-republicans-in-texas-its-pretty-cordial\">What Happens When Democrats in San Francisco Call Up Republicans in Texas? It’s Pretty Cordial | KQED\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC5345988675\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. For weeks outside of a tattoo shop in San Francisco’s Mission District, an old school payphone painted red could be heard ringing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hello? Hey, this is Chris calling from San Francisco. Who am I speaking with?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On top of the payphone was a sign inviting people walking by to ‘Call a Republican.’ The phone connected to a nearly identical phone booth in Abilene, Texas, except for the sign that read ‘Call a Democrat.’ And it’s all part of a social experiment called The Party Line.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ben Goldhirsh: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so it was sort of a social experiment to see what would people choose, common ground or conflict. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Studies show that most American voters are pretty pessimistic that we can overcome our country’s deep political divides. So today, we’re gonna talk with KQED reporter Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman about this social experiment and listen in on conversations between residents of San Francisco and Abilene, Texas. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the payphone is a project of Matter Neuroscience. That’s a tech startup in Boulder, Colorado.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman is a reporter for KQED. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And their mission is basically just to try to help people live more emotionally balanced lives. One example of that is that they’re in clinical trials at Stanford right now, trying to help people with depression who aren’t responding to traditional treatments. But they also do these sort of like side quest projects. For instance, one was they prototype this six pound phone case to prevent people from doom scrolling. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So basically the phone case was so heavy that it was just physically impossible to sit there.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah, to do the infinite scroll on your phone. But the common thread here with the payphone is that they’re trying to get people away from habits that are bad for our emotional health. So the idea with this payphone is how can we get people to connect in a way that’s emotionally positive and healthy for our brains?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How does the payphone work exactly? So there’s one in San Francisco and then another elsewhere in the country?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Basically, Matter Neuroscience bought two payphones on Facebook Marketplace, ripped out their guts, and outfitted them with SIM cards that basically turned them into cell phones. And they put one in San Francisco, and they put another in Abilene, Texas. So the idea was to connect two very politically different parts of our country. So San Francisco voted heavily for Kamala Harris in the 2024 presidential election. Abilene, Texas voted heavily for Donald Trump. Both cities are over 100,000 residents, so that was sort of the thinking of connecting America’s most, you know, I’m saying this in air quotes, most conservative city and most liberal city. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Audio from outside the payphone:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Is anybody picking up? No. Oh, darn. That’s too bad. It might take a while. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so what happens is if you pick up the phone in San Francisco, it rings the phone in Texas. And the phone in Texas is located outside a bookstore in Abilene. Same thing, if you pick up the phone in Texas, it’ll ring the payphone in San Francisco.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And you just wait basically for someone to pick up on the other side.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, you pick it up, it calls, and then it rings on the other side. And I was standing outside the payphone for a while and there were times when it was ringing and nobody picked up. There were other times when people walked by and they decided to pick it up.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m so curious about the conversations that you heard folks having and also who was interested and engaging with this payphone. I know you met a woman named Maria out there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, so Maria Gonzalez is a lifelong San Franciscan, lives pretty close to the payphone, and she was walking by, heard a ring, and decided to pick it up. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Gonzalez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh my gosh, really? Where? Where are you at? Oh, you just told me where you’re at. Yeah. You need to get out here.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She ended up finding a Democrat in Texas or the person who called was a Democrat wanting to sort of commiserate about you know politics and say oh you know I want to be where you are essentially.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Gonzalez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was nice to speak to somebody and we had similar ways of looking at life and so, you know, I mean every time you pick up the phone it’s going to be a different experience. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She told me that the conversation that she had reminded her of sort of her own difficulties in her family speaking with the family members who are supporters of President Trump. She said her uncle is a quote Trumpster and that she tries to maintain a relationship with him but it’s hard. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Gonzalez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So we have these discussions every time we speak, you know, and I love my uncle, I just don’t, we just don’t agree in our political views. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is something that I think a lot of people feel is that it can be difficult to talk about politics when people have different views.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Gonzalez: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think that we need something like this for sure. I was born and raised in San Francisco, so I grew up around a lot of different people with different ethnicities, going to different people’s houses and having food with them and experiencing their life. And I think that’s the best way that you can open up your mind if you live amongst people that are different from you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Another man named Stephen Albert said that his twin sister is a Trump supporter and that he was put on this earth to cancel out her vote. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So we’re gonna play and listen to a snippet from a phone call between a 46 year old man in San Francisco and it turns out a 46-year-old woman in Abilene, Texas.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hello, I’m Steve. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay. Hi, Steve.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What’s up? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Nothing much. Just looking for books. Classic books.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well this says ‘Call a Republican.’ Are you a Republican? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, I am.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> You are?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yes, probably an independent I would say as I’ve got older independent Are you, what are you? Are you a Republican? Are you a Democrat? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh god, I don’t, I don’t I mean I live in San Francisco, you know.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So yeah, so you’re liberal, that’s fine. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m pretty liberal. Okay. Yeah Yeah, I… do you see the world as crazy as I do? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I do, worse and worse every day. It’s getting worse every day.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">See we have so much in common.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know, we do.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I love this clip so much because I feel like it’s so awkward in the beginning. They’re like, are you a liberal? I am a liberal. And then you feel this like sigh of relief when they both agree that the world is crazy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, they’re sort of tiptoeing around each other at the beginning, like being like, is this okay? And then they both like say like, yeah, I’m willing to have a conversation with you. And I thought it was interesting that the woman was like, you know, I am kind of Republican, but I’m kind of an independent. You know, there’s some of that nuance that you might not get in an online conversation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like I’m out here in the middle of the day and I’m about to have a delicious tuna salad sandwich and you’re shopping for books and neither of us are at work. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I’m a stay-at-home mom, so I don’t work. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re a stay at home mom? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, with four kids. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Four kids?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh my God, how old are you? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m 46. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m also 46. I have no kids. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You have no kids… Hey, you’re living the life then, let me tell you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I am living the live. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m tied down forever. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, but you love it, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I do love it. I do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’re also having the AI here, did you know that? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>I did not know that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, so they’re building a huge AI center here. It’s one of the biggest in the, I guess in the world is coming, or they’ve already been building it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A data center?\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, that’s right. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Is that a positive impact? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, I would say there’s a lot more traffic. There’s a lotta more traffic\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it probably, what, takes a lot of energy and water to run a place like that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh yeah, it’s going to be very interesting when it’s all done, what happens. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steve: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, it’s probably not being done for our benefit, is it?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, probably not.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I love that they’re like learning from each other in this conversation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, and having, finding a commonality again, like San Francisco, we sort of live in the shadow of AI, and then right down there on Main Street, Texas, you’ve also got AI’s influence coming. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And you can hear her bringing it up because she knows that. She knows that him living in San Francisco is like, yeah, you live in AI capital of the world and it’s here too. Okay, and here’s another conversation between, as it turns out, two progressives. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hello? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 3: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hello. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh my gosh, Texas, and hell yeah. What’s it like over there? I’m a little scared for you guys. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 3: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, it’s OK. You’re in California? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, San Francisco. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 3: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh my god, I always wanted to go there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, it’s amazing. What can I say, queer? Quite queer. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 3: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, okay, so I have to tell you, I’m not a Republican.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, okay, okay. I was testing. That was a test. The queer thing was a task. I knew instantly when you said you wanted to go to San Francisco.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 3: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, well, I have a trans, I have a trans child, so, yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Of course, of course. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 3: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have to say it quietly. I have say it really quietly.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, yeah, I’d imagine, I would imagine. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh my god, I just love their energy. They’re just like, they just sound like two girls on the phone.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 3: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s all gonna be okay, it’s all going to be okay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, it’s all going to be okay. There’s so many amazing people in the world all across, no matter what state you’re in. The people of Texas, there’s some great hard-working people in Texas that you are ready to do the work to really turn some stuff around. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 3: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s right. We’re going to get there. We are going to go there. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, and I believe in you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s like, it’s very fun. It’s a very odd situation when you’re put on the phone with a stranger and tasked with having a conversation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, it’s like that element of surprise that’s kind of fun. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like mystery box.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah right. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think another thing that you’re hearing is like, not everyone in Abilene is a Republican and not everyone in San Francisco is a Democrat. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 2: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m glad I got to hear you. This is so beautiful. I don’t even know exactly what this phone thing is, but I, I, this is awesome. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Unidentified Caller 3: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s awesome. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I talked to the bookstore owner in Texas and she said, yeah, a lot of the Democrats and Abilene have been like coming out of the woodwork and seeking out this payphone trying to find like-minded people, which could be sort of a little more challenging there. And in the same way, she said she’s picked up calls where San Francisco Republicans are calling looking to talk to like-minded folk. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, did you pick up the phone and try to talk to anyone? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I did. And you know, I have my journalist hat on, so people are like, well, are you a Republican or a Democrat? I’m like, I’m sort of a journalist. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m a journalist.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m not really supposed to have a political view when I’m working, but I did experience that same feeling of like, you’re a person in Texas and I grew up in San Francisco, I’ve lived here almost my whole life. I’ve never been to Texas. What’s that like? Like we’re part of the same country. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I do wonder, Azul, just like after hearing some of these phone calls, I’m sure there were many, many more that we haven’t listened to, but do the folks who put this payphone out there, do they think that it did what it was supposed to do? Like, did it work? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the payphones were up for a month and they recorded around 200 conversations. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ben Goldhirsh: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What ended up happening was quite beautiful and quite affirming. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I spoke to Ben Goldhirsh, he’s a co-founder of Matter Neuroscience, and he said listening to these conversations has been incredibly meaningful for him. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ben Goldhirsh: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Whatever the human topic is that allows us to actually connect, that’s what people gravitate towards. And people also gravitated away from kind of broad brushstrokes, like, oh, I’m a Republican, but don’t think that all of my positions are all on the right. I also believe in X and Y on the left side. I think people really pronounced the nuanced reality of their existence. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, small sample size. Can we draw major conclusions from these conversations? I can’t say, but to him, I think it is proof that when people take the time to connect in a healthier way, there can be positive benefits. So when we get offline, we get on the phone or talk to somebody in person, it can be beneficial for us as humans and we can sort of break down some of these barriers that we might construct that prevent us from relating to each other. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ben Goldhirsh: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think if you pulled an alien that was looking at America from, you know, a million miles away who was just digesting our news and our social media, and you said, hey, like, evaluate how far apart these people are, I think it would be reasonable to set a pretty wide delta. And I think when that alien listens to these conversations, they’ll be like, a lot of these are buds. These folks are all buds. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So they took the payphones down on Wednesday, right? Wednesday of last week. Do they plan to do this again? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Matter Neuroscience told me that they’re looking at other applications for the payphones that could have similar benefits for different populations. One idea is a senior center and a college campus to sort of unite people across generations. And the other idea is to go international with it. Unite people from different countries.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Did you feel like it worked on you? I mean, like the purpose of this payphone. Are you convinced? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">One question I have about this project is that, you know, there were around 200 conversations. This is a drop in the bucket compared to how many billions of people use social media every day. And this project was literally based on a payphone, like a piece of tech that does not exist anymore largely. It’s definitely going against the prevailing headwinds of how we’re communicating and how we are. The methods we’re increasingly turning to to get information out. But there is a lot of research to say that like social connection is good for us. And I did feel, I felt good when I talked to the payphone and it felt good to listen to people talking and it feel good to listened to these conversations. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah and especially I feel like in this like world where we’re presumably more connected than ever with social media and stuff but actually like sometimes you just need to pick up the phone and talk to someone. Well Azul, this was such a fun story, thank you so much for sharing it with us. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Azul Dahlstrom-Eckman: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, happy to be here. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Payphone sound: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You are now being connected to the party line in Abilene, Texas. Participants must be 18 or older. This call may be recorded for use in a public project. By staying on the line, you consent…\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"info": "The Commonwealth Club of California is the nation's oldest and largest public affairs forum. As a non-partisan forum, The Club brings to the public airwaves diverse viewpoints on important topics. The Club's weekly radio broadcast - the oldest in the U.S., dating back to 1924 - is carried across the nation on public radio stations and is now podcasting. Our website archive features audio of our recent programs, as well as selected speeches from our long and distinguished history. This podcast feed is usually updated twice a week and is always un-edited.",
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"order": 9
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"id": "fresh-air",
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"airtime": "SUN 7:30pm-8pm",
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"tagline": "Where conversation and cultura meet",
"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
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"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game – and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
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"order": 18
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"info": "Latino USA, the radio journal of news and culture, is the only national, English-language radio program produced from a Latino perspective.",
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"marketplace": {
"id": "marketplace",
"title": "Marketplace",
"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 4pm-4:30pm, MON-WED 6:30pm-7pm",
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"masters-of-scale": {
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"title": "Masters of Scale",
"info": "Masters of Scale is an original podcast in which LinkedIn co-founder and Greylock Partner Reid Hoffman sets out to describe and prove theories that explain how great entrepreneurs take their companies from zero to a gazillion in ingenious fashion.",
"airtime": "Every other Wednesday June 12 through October 16 at 8pm (repeats Thursdays at 2am)",
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"rss": "https://rss.art19.com/masters-of-scale"
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},
"mindshift": {
"id": "mindshift",
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"tagline": "A podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids",
"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
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"order": 12
},
"link": "/podcasts/mindshift",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5",
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"morning-edition": {
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"info": "\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. Hosts Steve Inskeep, David Greene and Rachel Martin bring you the latest breaking news and features to prepare you for the day.",
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"onourwatch": {
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"title": "On Our Watch",
"tagline": "Deeply-reported investigative journalism",
"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
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"order": 11
},
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"on-the-media": {
"id": "on-the-media",
"title": "On The Media",
"info": "Our weekly podcast explores how the media 'sausage' is made, casts an incisive eye on fluctuations in the marketplace of ideas, and examines threats to the freedom of information and expression in America and abroad. For one hour a week, the show tries to lift the veil from the process of \"making media,\" especially news media, because it's through that lens that we see the world and the world sees us",
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"link": "/radio/program/on-the-media",
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"pbs-newshour": {
"id": "pbs-newshour",
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"info": "Analysis, background reports and updates from the PBS NewsHour putting today's news in context.",
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"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/PBS-NewsHour---Full-Show-p425698/",
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},
"perspectives": {
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"order": 14
},
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"planet-money": {
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"title": "Planet Money",
"info": "The economy explained. Imagine you could call up a friend and say, Meet me at the bar and tell me what's going on with the economy. Now imagine that's actually a fun evening.",
"airtime": "SUN 3pm-4pm",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/planetmoney.jpg",
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"link": "/radio/program/planet-money",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/planet-money/id290783428?mt=2",
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"politicalbreakdown": {
"id": "politicalbreakdown",
"title": "Political Breakdown",
"tagline": "Politics from a personal perspective",
"info": "Political Breakdown is a new series that explores the political intersection of California and the nation. Each week hosts Scott Shafer and Marisa Lagos are joined with a new special guest to unpack politics -- with personality — and offer an insider’s glimpse at how politics happens.",
"airtime": "THU 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Political-Breakdown-2024-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"order": 5
},
"link": "/podcasts/politicalbreakdown",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM5Nzk2MzI2MTEx",
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"possible": {
"id": "possible",
"title": "Possible",
"info": "Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? Each episode also includes a short fiction story generated by advanced AI GPT-4, serving as a thought-provoking springboard to speculate how humanity could leverage technology for good.",
"airtime": "SUN 2pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Possible-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.possible.fm/",
"meta": {
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"source": "Possible"
},
"link": "/radio/program/possible",
"subscribe": {
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"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/730YpdUSNlMyPQwNnyjp4k"
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},
"pri-the-world": {
"id": "pri-the-world",
"title": "PRI's The World: Latest Edition",
"info": "Each weekday, host Marco Werman and his team of producers bring you the world's most interesting stories in an hour of radio that reminds us just how small our planet really is.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 2pm-3pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-World-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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