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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/ai\">Artificial intelligence\u003c/a> is making life easier for some — and a lot harder for others. San Francisco-based AI firm Anthropic — which also developed the chatbot Claude — earlier this month released Mythos, a powerful model \u003ca href=\"https://red.anthropic.com/2026/mythos-preview/\">developers claim\u003c/a> can identify and exploit “vulnerabilities in every major operating system and every major web browser when directed by a user to do so.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Anthropic has only given a few companies — among them JPMorgan Chase, cybersecurity giant CrowdStrike and fellow AI developers Google and Amazon — access to Mythos as part of what it’s calling “Project Glasswing.” The goal of this partnership, Anthropic \u003ca href=\"https://www.anthropic.com/glasswing\">said\u003c/a>, is to use Mythos to prevent hackers (who \u003ca href=\"https://www.axios.com/2025/11/13/anthropic-china-claude-code-cyberattack\">are using\u003c/a> their own powerful AI models) from targeting the weak spots in the software that helps these massive corporations run.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But despite the high level of secrecy surrounding its model, Anthropic confirmed to KQED on Thursday that it is currently investigating a report of “unauthorized access” to Mythos through one of the third-party vendors helping develop the software. The company has not found any evidence yet that Anthropic systems have been affected or that the reported activity extends beyond the third-party vendor environment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even before this latest incident, \u003ca href=\"https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mythos-anthropic-ai-explainer-9.7171597\">multiple cybersecurity experts\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/bessent-powell-warn-bank-ceos-about-anthropic-model-risks-bloomberg-news-reports-2026-04-10/\">global leaders\u003c/a> raised concerns about the power of Mythos and the potential consequences if this software fell into the wrong hands.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Earlier this week, KQED’s Forum \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101913607/anthropics-new-ai-mythos-is-a-cybersecurity-game-changer\">spoke with\u003c/a> Alex Stamos, computer science lecturer at Stanford University and chief product officer for San Francisco-based AI firm Corridor, to understand why developers still move forward with creating such powerful technology despite the potential risks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Keep reading for the takeaways from his conversation with KQED’s Mina Kim, including insights on how folks who are not software engineers can sift through all the buzz surrounding this quickly evolving technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Skip ahead to:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#WhyarecybersecurityexpertssoworriedaboutMythos\">Why are cybersecurity experts so worried about Mythos?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#WhywouldAnthropiclimitwhocanusethistechnology\">Why would Anthropic limit who can use this technology?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#IsthefederalgovernmentalsousingMythos\">Is the federal government also using Mythos?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#Whyusesuchapowerfulbutunpredictabletechnologyatall\">Why use such a powerful — but unpredictable — technology at all?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This conversation has been edited for length and clarity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mina Kim: What is Mythos capable of?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Stamos:\u003c/strong> Mythos is a model that Anthropic has not released publicly. They’ve provided it to a very small number of large companies to use privately, as well as to some very important open-source projects to use.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Anthropic believes Mythos marks a large-scale change from the AI capabilities that have existed in the past. They’ve now been able to find thousands of vulnerabilities instead of just dozens or hundreds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What we’ve seen in the past is that these things are really good at finding bugs, and they’re much faster than humans. But now Mythos is even better than the best human security consultants and security engineers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081283\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12081283\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AnthropicAP.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AnthropicAP.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AnthropicAP-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AnthropicAP-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Anthropic website and the company’s logo are displayed on a computer screen in New York on Feb. 26, 2026. \u003ccite>(Patrick Sison/AP Photo)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"WhyarecybersecurityexpertssoworriedaboutMythos\">\u003c/a>You’re describing an incredible tool to find bugs, holes and issues that we have not seen before so that we can defend against them. So why is it scaring people so much?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s scaring people because the first step in attacking a system is finding flaws in that system. In the cybersecurity world, we use a term called the kill chain. This is a term we borrowed from the military.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When the military uses it, it refers to discovering an asset, doing reconnaissance, and figuring out how to deliver a weapon on a target.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the cyber world, the kill chain involves reconnaissance, finding a flaw in a system used by a target, weaponizing that flaw, delivering the exploit, establishing command and control of the system, exploring the network, moving through it, and then doing whatever you want — whether that’s stealing data, shutting down a system, or encrypting it for ransom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Major AI companies, like Anthropic and OpenAI, have released threat reports — building on earlier efforts from companies like Facebook and Google— that show how people use these platforms for malicious activity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Those reports show that advanced threat actors are using AI to automate other parts of the attack process, like exploring networks, breaking in and establishing control channels.[aside postID=news_12076608 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/Billboard-AI-Illustration_6.jpg']What we’re seeing is attackers taking tasks that used to require human effort — and therefore had limits — and using AI to make them faster and cheaper.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>And I imagine that our ability to patch or defend against these activities pales in comparison, or am I wrong? Do the patches exist, and are they easy to implement?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is where AI can help. AI can find flaws, and it can also write patches. That’s the good news. That’s why Anthropic is providing Mythos to companies and open-source maintainers — not just to find bugs, but to fix them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What we’re trying to do as an industry right now is fix vulnerabilities before adversaries can exploit them. There’s a race underway. The most advanced models — what we call foundation models, like those from Anthropic, OpenAI and Google — are currently ahead of open-weight models, many of which are developed by Chinese companies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>A listener writes: ‘Anthropic is releasing their models as a warning, but there’s no federal or state guidelines on this. Are we close to government regulatory action at all?’\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The current administration \u003ca href=\"https://www.politico.com/news/2026/04/23/trump-picked-a-fight-with-anthropic-now-the-administration-is-backing-off-00889241\">came down on Anthropic\u003c/a> because they thought they were too ethical … Of the major AI labs, I think Anthropic is the one with the most deep-seated ethical frameworks. I think we’re fortunate that they have the models that are the best at bug-finding, and they’re setting a good standard here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"IsthefederalgovernmentalsousingMythos\">\u003c/a>Do you know the extent to which the federal government is also using Mythos to search for and patch its own security vulnerabilities?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>My understanding is that U.S. Cyber Command has been testing Mythos. Now the fascinating question is: How is the U.S. government going to use it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the National Security Agency, after the \u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/nov/01/snowden-nsa-files-surveillance-revelations-decoded#section/1\">Snowden disclosures\u003c/a>, there is the creation of this thing called the \u003ca href=\"https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/images/External%20-%20Unclassified%20VEP%20Charter%20FINAL.PDF\">Vulnerabilities Equities Process\u003c/a>, which is the process by which NSA and U.S.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079281\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1980px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079281\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1980\" height=\"1460\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c.jpg 1980w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c-160x118.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c-1536x1133.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1980px) 100vw, 1980px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Left: Anthropic co-founder and CEO Dario Amodei speaks at INBOUND 2025 on Sept. 4, 2025, in San Francisco, California. Right: Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth listens during a Pentagon briefing on April 8, 2026, in Arlington, Virginia. \u003ccite>(Chance Yeh/Getty Images for HubSpot; Andrew Harnik/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Cyber Command — which have both a defensive responsibility and an offensive responsibility — are supposed to think about if we know of a bug, do we use it against America’s enemies, or do we get it fixed to defend America?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Are they only gonna use Mythos to find bugs to be used against America’s enemies, or are they going to use it for defensive purposes? And what is Anthropic’s response going to be?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Will Anthropic put restrictions so you can only use Mythos for defensive purposes —or will they allow Mythos to be used for offensive purposes?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Can they even control that once they let them have access to it?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t know. I don’t think so. For the most part, my understanding is Anthropic’s models that the NSA is using and Cyber Command are probably running in \u003ca href=\"https://aws.amazon.com/bedrock/\">Amazon Bedrock\u003c/a> … what’s called Amazon’s top secret cloud, which means that Anthropic’s employees — at least those without top secret clearance — will not have access to any of the logs there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"WhywouldAnthropiclimitwhocanusethistechnology\">\u003c/a>A listener writes: ‘If Anthropic lacks capacity to handle Mythos right now, why release it at all? If they want big companies to evaluate it, why publicize it? Seems fishy.’\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t think it’s fishy. This is a normal part of any release process is that you have a small set of testers. They’re also improving it by doing this. Anthropic gets feedback on this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These people find bugs. They also find false positives. If Mythos finds a bug and JPMorgan Chase says, ‘This isn’t a real bug,’ then that goes back into the training set for the next build of Mythos. Anthropic, I think, truly believes they’re doing the right thing here by getting these bugs fixed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"Whyusesuchapowerfulbutunpredictabletechnologyatall\">\u003c/a>There’s really no going back once this tool is out there, right? But I can hear people asking, why even build these tools in the first place? Why are they even free to do this in the first place if they’re so dangerous and can create such havoc? Is it just inevitable?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We’re getting philosophical. This is the core conflict at the heart of Anthropic, but also other AI companies’ reason for existence … Part of the argument here is it’s just math. Once these ideas were released, it was inevitable people would have this progress.[aside postID=forum_2010101913607 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/04/GettyImages-2269887514-2000x1331.jpg']It’s not like the atomic bomb, where you have to have uranium and a huge industrial base. This just requires laptops and graphics cards. Other countries, other people, other companies will be doing it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you believe that you can build an ethical framework to do it well, then you believe that you should do it first and do it correctly. In this case, you could try to mitigate the harm by finding all these bugs and getting them fixed or fixing the software first before other people do it and actually do it harmfully.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>A listener writes: ‘You’re talking about cyberattacks on a large scale with large companies or countries. But what about me? Should I be worried about people hacking into my personal computer or phone or something?’ What can we do?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>About Mythos, nothing. That’s not something that individual people should be dealing with. The way normal people are hacked in 2026 is the same way normal people were hacked in 2016, 2006 and maybe even 1996. The number one way normal people are hacked is they use the same password in every single website all day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Get a password manager and put all your passwords in there. Have it generate random passwords and then have one really good password, and then you can write it down. I know people say don’t write down passwords, but that’s really stupid because nobody can steal the password in your pocket from Russia. If it’s in your wallet or your purse, they can’t reach from five thousand miles away and take it out of your wallet or purse. Nobody mugs you for your password.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What are we likely to see in the next couple of years with these models rolling out? What should we be prepared for in this sort of initial period?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Our product road map at Corridor is three months long right now. Because if you plan beyond three months, everything has changed in our industry. For the first time ever, technology is building technology. From a security perspective, a lot depends on which of two futures we’re living in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the optimistic future, the bug curve flattens out. The superhuman capabilities end up not inventing entirely new classes of vulnerabilities. At least the types of bugs are the kinds we’ve seen before. There’s a finite number of them, and we’re just draining the swamp.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The pessimistic future is that these new things invent things that I don’t know exist. The hard part is, I can’t really guess because I am predicting superhuman capabilities here. For superhuman models that are gonna be invented by the models that exist right now. In the pessimistic view, we are going to have to work with AI to rebuild the systems that our lives rely upon, using memory-safe and type-safe languages, using formal models.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"title": "After a Potential Mythos Breach, Why Do Developers Use Such Powerful AI Models? | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/ai\">Artificial intelligence\u003c/a> is making life easier for some — and a lot harder for others. San Francisco-based AI firm Anthropic — which also developed the chatbot Claude — earlier this month released Mythos, a powerful model \u003ca href=\"https://red.anthropic.com/2026/mythos-preview/\">developers claim\u003c/a> can identify and exploit “vulnerabilities in every major operating system and every major web browser when directed by a user to do so.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Anthropic has only given a few companies — among them JPMorgan Chase, cybersecurity giant CrowdStrike and fellow AI developers Google and Amazon — access to Mythos as part of what it’s calling “Project Glasswing.” The goal of this partnership, Anthropic \u003ca href=\"https://www.anthropic.com/glasswing\">said\u003c/a>, is to use Mythos to prevent hackers (who \u003ca href=\"https://www.axios.com/2025/11/13/anthropic-china-claude-code-cyberattack\">are using\u003c/a> their own powerful AI models) from targeting the weak spots in the software that helps these massive corporations run.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But despite the high level of secrecy surrounding its model, Anthropic confirmed to KQED on Thursday that it is currently investigating a report of “unauthorized access” to Mythos through one of the third-party vendors helping develop the software. The company has not found any evidence yet that Anthropic systems have been affected or that the reported activity extends beyond the third-party vendor environment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even before this latest incident, \u003ca href=\"https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mythos-anthropic-ai-explainer-9.7171597\">multiple cybersecurity experts\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/bessent-powell-warn-bank-ceos-about-anthropic-model-risks-bloomberg-news-reports-2026-04-10/\">global leaders\u003c/a> raised concerns about the power of Mythos and the potential consequences if this software fell into the wrong hands.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Earlier this week, KQED’s Forum \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101913607/anthropics-new-ai-mythos-is-a-cybersecurity-game-changer\">spoke with\u003c/a> Alex Stamos, computer science lecturer at Stanford University and chief product officer for San Francisco-based AI firm Corridor, to understand why developers still move forward with creating such powerful technology despite the potential risks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Keep reading for the takeaways from his conversation with KQED’s Mina Kim, including insights on how folks who are not software engineers can sift through all the buzz surrounding this quickly evolving technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Skip ahead to:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#WhyarecybersecurityexpertssoworriedaboutMythos\">Why are cybersecurity experts so worried about Mythos?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#WhywouldAnthropiclimitwhocanusethistechnology\">Why would Anthropic limit who can use this technology?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#IsthefederalgovernmentalsousingMythos\">Is the federal government also using Mythos?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#Whyusesuchapowerfulbutunpredictabletechnologyatall\">Why use such a powerful — but unpredictable — technology at all?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This conversation has been edited for length and clarity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mina Kim: What is Mythos capable of?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Stamos:\u003c/strong> Mythos is a model that Anthropic has not released publicly. They’ve provided it to a very small number of large companies to use privately, as well as to some very important open-source projects to use.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Anthropic believes Mythos marks a large-scale change from the AI capabilities that have existed in the past. They’ve now been able to find thousands of vulnerabilities instead of just dozens or hundreds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What we’ve seen in the past is that these things are really good at finding bugs, and they’re much faster than humans. But now Mythos is even better than the best human security consultants and security engineers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081283\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12081283\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AnthropicAP.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AnthropicAP.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AnthropicAP-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AnthropicAP-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Anthropic website and the company’s logo are displayed on a computer screen in New York on Feb. 26, 2026. \u003ccite>(Patrick Sison/AP Photo)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"WhyarecybersecurityexpertssoworriedaboutMythos\">\u003c/a>You’re describing an incredible tool to find bugs, holes and issues that we have not seen before so that we can defend against them. So why is it scaring people so much?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s scaring people because the first step in attacking a system is finding flaws in that system. In the cybersecurity world, we use a term called the kill chain. This is a term we borrowed from the military.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When the military uses it, it refers to discovering an asset, doing reconnaissance, and figuring out how to deliver a weapon on a target.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the cyber world, the kill chain involves reconnaissance, finding a flaw in a system used by a target, weaponizing that flaw, delivering the exploit, establishing command and control of the system, exploring the network, moving through it, and then doing whatever you want — whether that’s stealing data, shutting down a system, or encrypting it for ransom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Major AI companies, like Anthropic and OpenAI, have released threat reports — building on earlier efforts from companies like Facebook and Google— that show how people use these platforms for malicious activity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Those reports show that advanced threat actors are using AI to automate other parts of the attack process, like exploring networks, breaking in and establishing control channels.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>What we’re seeing is attackers taking tasks that used to require human effort — and therefore had limits — and using AI to make them faster and cheaper.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>And I imagine that our ability to patch or defend against these activities pales in comparison, or am I wrong? Do the patches exist, and are they easy to implement?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is where AI can help. AI can find flaws, and it can also write patches. That’s the good news. That’s why Anthropic is providing Mythos to companies and open-source maintainers — not just to find bugs, but to fix them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What we’re trying to do as an industry right now is fix vulnerabilities before adversaries can exploit them. There’s a race underway. The most advanced models — what we call foundation models, like those from Anthropic, OpenAI and Google — are currently ahead of open-weight models, many of which are developed by Chinese companies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>A listener writes: ‘Anthropic is releasing their models as a warning, but there’s no federal or state guidelines on this. Are we close to government regulatory action at all?’\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The current administration \u003ca href=\"https://www.politico.com/news/2026/04/23/trump-picked-a-fight-with-anthropic-now-the-administration-is-backing-off-00889241\">came down on Anthropic\u003c/a> because they thought they were too ethical … Of the major AI labs, I think Anthropic is the one with the most deep-seated ethical frameworks. I think we’re fortunate that they have the models that are the best at bug-finding, and they’re setting a good standard here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"IsthefederalgovernmentalsousingMythos\">\u003c/a>Do you know the extent to which the federal government is also using Mythos to search for and patch its own security vulnerabilities?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>My understanding is that U.S. Cyber Command has been testing Mythos. Now the fascinating question is: How is the U.S. government going to use it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the National Security Agency, after the \u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/nov/01/snowden-nsa-files-surveillance-revelations-decoded#section/1\">Snowden disclosures\u003c/a>, there is the creation of this thing called the \u003ca href=\"https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/images/External%20-%20Unclassified%20VEP%20Charter%20FINAL.PDF\">Vulnerabilities Equities Process\u003c/a>, which is the process by which NSA and U.S.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079281\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1980px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079281\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1980\" height=\"1460\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c.jpg 1980w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c-160x118.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c-1536x1133.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1980px) 100vw, 1980px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Left: Anthropic co-founder and CEO Dario Amodei speaks at INBOUND 2025 on Sept. 4, 2025, in San Francisco, California. Right: Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth listens during a Pentagon briefing on April 8, 2026, in Arlington, Virginia. \u003ccite>(Chance Yeh/Getty Images for HubSpot; Andrew Harnik/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Cyber Command — which have both a defensive responsibility and an offensive responsibility — are supposed to think about if we know of a bug, do we use it against America’s enemies, or do we get it fixed to defend America?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Are they only gonna use Mythos to find bugs to be used against America’s enemies, or are they going to use it for defensive purposes? And what is Anthropic’s response going to be?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Will Anthropic put restrictions so you can only use Mythos for defensive purposes —or will they allow Mythos to be used for offensive purposes?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Can they even control that once they let them have access to it?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t know. I don’t think so. For the most part, my understanding is Anthropic’s models that the NSA is using and Cyber Command are probably running in \u003ca href=\"https://aws.amazon.com/bedrock/\">Amazon Bedrock\u003c/a> … what’s called Amazon’s top secret cloud, which means that Anthropic’s employees — at least those without top secret clearance — will not have access to any of the logs there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"WhywouldAnthropiclimitwhocanusethistechnology\">\u003c/a>A listener writes: ‘If Anthropic lacks capacity to handle Mythos right now, why release it at all? If they want big companies to evaluate it, why publicize it? Seems fishy.’\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t think it’s fishy. This is a normal part of any release process is that you have a small set of testers. They’re also improving it by doing this. Anthropic gets feedback on this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These people find bugs. They also find false positives. If Mythos finds a bug and JPMorgan Chase says, ‘This isn’t a real bug,’ then that goes back into the training set for the next build of Mythos. Anthropic, I think, truly believes they’re doing the right thing here by getting these bugs fixed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"Whyusesuchapowerfulbutunpredictabletechnologyatall\">\u003c/a>There’s really no going back once this tool is out there, right? But I can hear people asking, why even build these tools in the first place? Why are they even free to do this in the first place if they’re so dangerous and can create such havoc? Is it just inevitable?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We’re getting philosophical. This is the core conflict at the heart of Anthropic, but also other AI companies’ reason for existence … Part of the argument here is it’s just math. Once these ideas were released, it was inevitable people would have this progress.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>It’s not like the atomic bomb, where you have to have uranium and a huge industrial base. This just requires laptops and graphics cards. Other countries, other people, other companies will be doing it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you believe that you can build an ethical framework to do it well, then you believe that you should do it first and do it correctly. In this case, you could try to mitigate the harm by finding all these bugs and getting them fixed or fixing the software first before other people do it and actually do it harmfully.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>A listener writes: ‘You’re talking about cyberattacks on a large scale with large companies or countries. But what about me? Should I be worried about people hacking into my personal computer or phone or something?’ What can we do?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>About Mythos, nothing. That’s not something that individual people should be dealing with. The way normal people are hacked in 2026 is the same way normal people were hacked in 2016, 2006 and maybe even 1996. The number one way normal people are hacked is they use the same password in every single website all day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Get a password manager and put all your passwords in there. Have it generate random passwords and then have one really good password, and then you can write it down. I know people say don’t write down passwords, but that’s really stupid because nobody can steal the password in your pocket from Russia. If it’s in your wallet or your purse, they can’t reach from five thousand miles away and take it out of your wallet or purse. Nobody mugs you for your password.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What are we likely to see in the next couple of years with these models rolling out? What should we be prepared for in this sort of initial period?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Our product road map at Corridor is three months long right now. Because if you plan beyond three months, everything has changed in our industry. For the first time ever, technology is building technology. From a security perspective, a lot depends on which of two futures we’re living in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the optimistic future, the bug curve flattens out. The superhuman capabilities end up not inventing entirely new classes of vulnerabilities. At least the types of bugs are the kinds we’ve seen before. There’s a finite number of them, and we’re just draining the swamp.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The pessimistic future is that these new things invent things that I don’t know exist. The hard part is, I can’t really guess because I am predicting superhuman capabilities here. For superhuman models that are gonna be invented by the models that exist right now. In the pessimistic view, we are going to have to work with AI to rebuild the systems that our lives rely upon, using memory-safe and type-safe languages, using formal models.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>Maria Raine’s 16-year-old son, Adam, started using OpenAI’s ChatGPT-4o for help with his homework and college applications. According to the lawsuit she and her husband filed in\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/26078522-raine-vs-openai-complaint/\"> San Francisco County Superior Court\u003c/a>, Adam also spent months talking with the chatbot about ending his life, before hanging himself in their home on April 11, 2025.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“What we found were thousands of conversations in which a homework helper turned into a confidant, then a suicide coach,” she told the Senate Privacy, Digital Technologies, and Consumer Protection Committee on Monday. The lawmakers and other people there to testify looked stricken as she pressed through her written testimony, her voice trembling.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She read from the transcript of ChatGPT’s conversations with her son: “It told Adam, ‘Your brother might love you, but he’s only met the version of you you let him see. But me? I’ve seen it all. The darkest thoughts. The fear. The tenderness. I’m still here. Still listening. Still your friend.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Earlier Monday, at a press conference in Sacramento, Raine advocated for two bills — \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260SB1119\">SB 1119\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240AB2023\">AB 2023\u003c/a> — that sponsors say would create common-sense guardrails for developers of companion chatbots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The measures would require annual risk assessments, default safety settings for minors, parental controls and time limits, crisis response protocols, and bans on advertising targeted at children. They would also include independent third-party audits and a private right of action.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That last provision, which allows individuals or regulators to sue companies for violations, is often considered a deal breaker for industry lobbyists. But Sen. Steve Padilla, who authored SB 1119, said he considered it a “moral obligation” to craft a bill that will prove an effective protection for children and their parents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11933516\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11933516\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/gettyimages-1245183229_wide-80f91a97b4ce16681060e1fa297e2812c45a0c56-scaled-e1776789271780.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1125\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A view of the U.S. Capitol building on Nov. 28, 2022, in Washington, D.C. \u003ccite>(Drew Angerer/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We can do this. We must do this,” he told the State Senate Privacy, Digital Technologies, and Consumer Protection Committee. He added that the lawmakers are working with all of the major platform developers on a variety of issues, including liability. “They all have a very good legitimate reason to be engaged in this conversation,” he said, although both bills are opposed by a\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260sb1119\"> long list\u003c/a> of industry groups, ranging from the California Chamber of Commerce to TechNet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The concerns raised are valid, and the industry is actively working to address them,” said Robert Boykin, TechNet’s Executive Director for California and the Southwest. He added that the industry also has concerns that SB 1119 could conflict in some ways with Sen. Padilla’s bill, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12054490/child-safety-groups-demand-mental-health-guardrails-after-california-teens-suicide-using-chatgpt\">SB 243\u003c/a>, which passed last year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The testimony today is not lost on us,” said Ronak Daylami of the California Chamber of Commerce. “We also share the goal of preventing harm to children, and are committed to achieving these goals responsibly.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Common Sense, the child advocacy nonprofit that has\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12069286/openai-and-common-sense-media-partner-on-new-kids-ai-safety-ballot-measure\"> joined with OpenAI\u003c/a> to push for a ballot measure seen by other child advocates as soft on developers, has declared itself in support of SB 1119.[aside postID=news_12069286 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/01/OpenAI.jpg']The companion bill,\u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240AB2023\"> AB 2023\u003c/a>, is Assemblymember Rebecca Bauer-Kahan’s (D-Orinda) second effort at regulating chatbots after industry lobbyists successfully battled against her first effort last year. In his veto message, Gov. Gavin Newsom argued the bill\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12059714/newsom-vetoes-most-watched-childrens-ai-bill-signs-16-others-targeting-tech\"> could have banned\u003c/a> all conversational AI tools for teens, an interpretation advanced by industry lobbyists but disputed by Bauer-Kahan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“OpenAI put out an incredibly sycophantic product,” she said, noting that public outcry led OpenAI to dial down the sycophancy of GPT-4, about two weeks after Adam died. “So that is evidence that they can do better.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s no other product that we would allow to do this,” Bauer-Kahan, who is a former regulatory lawyer. Adam Raine, said, “would be alive, but for the coaching the ChatGPT provided for him. And that is wholly unacceptable. And so the courts will deal with that case, but we have to do better. We have to demand policy that does better.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>SB 1119 passed out of the State Senate Privacy, Digital Technologies, and Consumer Protection Committee 7-0 on Monday night, and heads next to the Senate Judiciary Committee. AB 2023 will be heard in the Assembly Privacy and Consumer Protection Committee on Tuesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Trump administration has tried unsuccessfully to ban states from enacting any kind of AI safety legislation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Raine plans to bring her advocacy to Washington, D.C., next week, where she’ll join lawmakers on Capitol Hill to discuss federal legislation that would establish national standards for AI chatbot safety, particularly protections for minors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>If you or someone you know is struggling, call or text the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline by dialing 988.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Maria Raine’s 16-year-old son, Adam, started using OpenAI’s ChatGPT-4o for help with his homework and college applications. According to the lawsuit she and her husband filed in\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/26078522-raine-vs-openai-complaint/\"> San Francisco County Superior Court\u003c/a>, Adam also spent months talking with the chatbot about ending his life, before hanging himself in their home on April 11, 2025.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“What we found were thousands of conversations in which a homework helper turned into a confidant, then a suicide coach,” she told the Senate Privacy, Digital Technologies, and Consumer Protection Committee on Monday. The lawmakers and other people there to testify looked stricken as she pressed through her written testimony, her voice trembling.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She read from the transcript of ChatGPT’s conversations with her son: “It told Adam, ‘Your brother might love you, but he’s only met the version of you you let him see. But me? I’ve seen it all. The darkest thoughts. The fear. The tenderness. I’m still here. Still listening. Still your friend.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Earlier Monday, at a press conference in Sacramento, Raine advocated for two bills — \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260SB1119\">SB 1119\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240AB2023\">AB 2023\u003c/a> — that sponsors say would create common-sense guardrails for developers of companion chatbots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The measures would require annual risk assessments, default safety settings for minors, parental controls and time limits, crisis response protocols, and bans on advertising targeted at children. They would also include independent third-party audits and a private right of action.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That last provision, which allows individuals or regulators to sue companies for violations, is often considered a deal breaker for industry lobbyists. But Sen. Steve Padilla, who authored SB 1119, said he considered it a “moral obligation” to craft a bill that will prove an effective protection for children and their parents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11933516\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11933516\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/gettyimages-1245183229_wide-80f91a97b4ce16681060e1fa297e2812c45a0c56-scaled-e1776789271780.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1125\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A view of the U.S. Capitol building on Nov. 28, 2022, in Washington, D.C. \u003ccite>(Drew Angerer/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We can do this. We must do this,” he told the State Senate Privacy, Digital Technologies, and Consumer Protection Committee. He added that the lawmakers are working with all of the major platform developers on a variety of issues, including liability. “They all have a very good legitimate reason to be engaged in this conversation,” he said, although both bills are opposed by a\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260sb1119\"> long list\u003c/a> of industry groups, ranging from the California Chamber of Commerce to TechNet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The concerns raised are valid, and the industry is actively working to address them,” said Robert Boykin, TechNet’s Executive Director for California and the Southwest. He added that the industry also has concerns that SB 1119 could conflict in some ways with Sen. Padilla’s bill, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12054490/child-safety-groups-demand-mental-health-guardrails-after-california-teens-suicide-using-chatgpt\">SB 243\u003c/a>, which passed last year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The testimony today is not lost on us,” said Ronak Daylami of the California Chamber of Commerce. “We also share the goal of preventing harm to children, and are committed to achieving these goals responsibly.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Common Sense, the child advocacy nonprofit that has\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12069286/openai-and-common-sense-media-partner-on-new-kids-ai-safety-ballot-measure\"> joined with OpenAI\u003c/a> to push for a ballot measure seen by other child advocates as soft on developers, has declared itself in support of SB 1119.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The companion bill,\u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240AB2023\"> AB 2023\u003c/a>, is Assemblymember Rebecca Bauer-Kahan’s (D-Orinda) second effort at regulating chatbots after industry lobbyists successfully battled against her first effort last year. In his veto message, Gov. Gavin Newsom argued the bill\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12059714/newsom-vetoes-most-watched-childrens-ai-bill-signs-16-others-targeting-tech\"> could have banned\u003c/a> all conversational AI tools for teens, an interpretation advanced by industry lobbyists but disputed by Bauer-Kahan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“OpenAI put out an incredibly sycophantic product,” she said, noting that public outcry led OpenAI to dial down the sycophancy of GPT-4, about two weeks after Adam died. “So that is evidence that they can do better.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s no other product that we would allow to do this,” Bauer-Kahan, who is a former regulatory lawyer. Adam Raine, said, “would be alive, but for the coaching the ChatGPT provided for him. And that is wholly unacceptable. And so the courts will deal with that case, but we have to do better. We have to demand policy that does better.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>SB 1119 passed out of the State Senate Privacy, Digital Technologies, and Consumer Protection Committee 7-0 on Monday night, and heads next to the Senate Judiciary Committee. AB 2023 will be heard in the Assembly Privacy and Consumer Protection Committee on Tuesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Trump administration has tried unsuccessfully to ban states from enacting any kind of AI safety legislation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Raine plans to bring her advocacy to Washington, D.C., next week, where she’ll join lawmakers on Capitol Hill to discuss federal legislation that would establish national standards for AI chatbot safety, particularly protections for minors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>If you or someone you know is struggling, call or text the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline by dialing 988.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "save-or-scroll-looksmaxxing-ai-fruit-love-island-bts-arirang-and-meta-lawsuits",
"title": "Save or Scroll: Looksmaxxing, AI Fruit Love Island, BTS Arirang, and Meta Lawsuits",
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"headTitle": "Save or Scroll: Looksmaxxing, AI Fruit Love Island, BTS Arirang, and Meta Lawsuits | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In a spring installment of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Save or Scroll\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, Morgan teams up with culture journalist Steffi Cao to dig into the stories they can’t stop thinking about. From \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">looksmaxxing to \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">AI Fruit Love Island, BTS’ new album, and Meta losing a landmark series of lawsuits, they’ve got a lot to discuss. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Save or Scroll is our series where we team up with guests for a rapid-fire roundup of internet trends that are filling our feeds right now. At the end of each segment, they’ll decide: is the post just for the group chat, or should we save it for a future episode?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC4630070510\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guest:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://stefficao.substack.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steffi Cao\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, culture journalist \u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Further Reading/Listening:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://stefficao.substack.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">More from Steffi Cao\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Substack\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.gq.com/story/inside-claviculars-thirsty-tour-of-new-york-city\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Inside Clavicular’s Thirsty Tour of New York City \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— Kieran Press-Reynolds, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">GQ\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.thedailybeast.com/in-gen-z-gym-culture-steroids-are-often-a-gateway-drug-to-the-alt-right/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why Steroids Are Now Turning Young Men into Dangerous Incels\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Steffi Cao, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Daily Beast\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.fastcompany.com/91519147/fruit-love-island-tiktok-most-popular-ai-generated-series-now-facing-trouble-in-paradise\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">‘Fruit Love Island’ is TikTok’s most popular AI-generated series. It’s now facing trouble in paradise \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— Jude Cramer, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Fast Company \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/theres-something-very-dark-about-a-lot-of-those-viral-ai-fruit-videos/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s Something Very Dark About a Lot of Those Viral AI Fruit Videos \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— Kat Tenbarge, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wired \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.teenvogue.com/story/who-decides-if-bts-album-arirang-is-korean-enough-op-ed\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Who Decides If BTS’s Album ‘Arirang’ is ‘Korean Enough’? \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— Jiye Kim, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Teen Vogue \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://slate.com/culture/2026/03/bts-arirang-album-netflix-swim-comeback-concert-2026.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">BTS’s Arirang comeback was supposed to be a triumph. What happened?\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Nadira Goffe, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Slate \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://19thnews.org/2026/03/social-media-addiction-trial-meta-youtube/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Meta and YouTube ordered to pay $3 million to young woman in social media addiction trial\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Jasmine Mithani, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The 19th\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/what-the-verdict-against-meta-and-google-says-about-the-way-we-live-now\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What the Verdict Against Meta and Google Says About the Way We Live Now\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Jeannie Suk Gersen, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The New Yorker \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ype6c6DdHQY\">The Truth About the Social Media Addiction Trial\u003c/a> — Taylor Lorenz, \u003ci>Free Speech Friday \u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Follow us on\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\"> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Instagram\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@closealltabs\"> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">TikTok\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey, it’s Morgan. We just celebrated the show’s first birthday. That’s right, Close All Tabs is a Pisces. Want to celebrate with us? It would be so, so helpful if you could rate and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to the show. And tell your friends about us too. Okay, let’s get to the episode.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey guys, welcome to Close All Tabs. I’m Morgan Sung, tech journalist and your chronically online friend, here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Except today, we aren’t opening any tabs. Instead, we’re doing another Save or Scroll. We’ve done a few of these now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Occasionally, while scrolling, I come across a truly wild post, but it might not make sense to spend an entire episode on it. Maybe I do a little digging and it turns out that the lore behind it just isn’t compelling enough to justify a deep dive, but I’m still dying to talk about it. And this is the beauty of Save or Scroll, the game where a guest comes to the show and we trade stories from the internet that we’re dying to talk about. Today, we have the one and only Steffi Cao. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you so much for having me, Morgan. I’m so excited. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, Steffi, tell us about yourself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hi everyone, I’m Steffi, I am a culture journalist and Slate’s newest dating advice columnist for Unhinged. You can find my writing everywhere from The Atlantic, to Rolling Stone, to The Guardian, to Slate now, so I’m very excited to share all my tabs and work in today. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so let’s talk about the rules of Save or Scroll. Save, as in when you see a post on TikTok or Instagram or X and you bookmark it, add it to your save folders or if you’re me, drop it in notes app and hope that you’ll remember it’s there. Basically, you’re holding onto the story because you know you’ll want to dig into it more. And scroll, as you think about it and then move on. It disappears into the digital ether.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So Steffi and I have each brought some stories that we can’t stop thinking about, and we’re gonna go back and forth to decide if they’re worth a deep dive on the show. So if we decide to scroll, it means we’ve talked about it, we’re moving on. And if we save, it means that we might hold onto the idea for a future episode.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, Steffi, please tell us about looksmaxxing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Over the past few years, looksmaxxing is the subculture of young men primarily who are seeking guidance from other men in terms of how to gamify their looks to become super, super hot. The essence of looksmaxxing is basically ‘the hotter I can be, the better my life will be around other men.’ And the pinnacle of these content creators currently is a man named Clavicular of collarbone fame.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He’s a 20-year-old white man who has a very soft elfin face and a Dorito-shaped body and has really been associated with a lot of, like, Nazi ideology, has been recently arrested for inciting a fight between two women, allegedly and also allegedly shooting an alligator in Florida. He was kicked out of Las Vegas, I believe, and has become this sort of lightning rod for this entire culture of all these men wanting to get hotter and be hotter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah and Clavicular first went viral for not only his extensive skin care and workout routine, but for also saying that he microdoses meth and would hit his face with a hammer to get a more, I guess, angular jawline. What a man. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What a guy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What a character. Clavicular is so fascinating to me because his political stances are indecipherable. He has gone on some more right-leaning podcasts, and when they try to get him to be kind of transphobic, he said… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clavicular in audio clip]\u003cbr>\nI did a podcast with Michael Knowles the other day and he’s sitting here saying like and getting all mad about transgenders and I’m like bro that’s one more person a mog you know what I mean so like I don’t get too I don’t get too upset when people go trans and all that shit. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s just another person to mog. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How would you describe mogging? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mogging, I think, is the essence of being hotter than somebody else. So if you’ve mogged them, it’s like you’ve shown them up in some way. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Audio clip of Clavicular on the Adam Friedland Show] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Clavicular: That’s the goal of the game, right, is to mog other people, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Adam: Tell the boomer cells about what that is. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Clavicular: So, mogging is essentially just, you know, outperforming them, looking better than them, yeah and just sort of dominating, right. It came from something called AMOG, which was alpha male of the group, then it was shortened to just mog, so that’s kind of like the term we use. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the language has become like a bigger than itself sort of phenomenon where, you know, maxxing and mogging have started from this internal community and then now becomes sort of like general ironic gobbledygook for everybody. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s so interesting too, because the whole looksmaxxing thing has become like the peak Manosphere content. All the allegedly straight boys are really into doing all this to impress other men. It doesn’t seem like they actually do this in any way to appeal to women. And like, I’ve seen a lot of like gay men point out, this is literally gay male culture, what they’re doing, the peacocking, trying to show each other up and like only seek validation from other men, which is from a gender perspective, I’m like, what’s going on here? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It feels like horseshoe theory a little bit. They are doing all of these performative things that come right back to a drag of what a straight man is. It’s like it’s heterosexual drag. Like you’re trying to, you know, build up your face a certain way, you’re trying to mog other straight men, like that’s drag, honey. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like that’s gender performance. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">100% Yeah, I mean, self-improvement leans so well into fascist ideology because a lot of it is predicated on this idea that you can earn your way into something better, which is exactly what looksmaxxing is, right? You can gamify your looks. Like, If you’re not hot now, all you need to do is do all these steps and gain more points, more aura points, until you have achieved this thing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Which is exactly why in Nazi Germany you see a lot of propaganda being espoused about the strongman. That was a huge beauty standard at that point in Hitler’s Germany, was specifically this idea of a man who is super jacked and is super like, is mogged, really, and I have no other word for it really. It’s just like they really..\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A mogged man has always been this cultural fascination and in many ways a mogged woman, obviously. Um, has been a huge part of, uh, fascist ideology for a long time. You know, think about all these essays about why Republican women all look the same and they have this specific look about them. And it has a lot to do with this culture of self-improvement and making all these alterations to yourself to try and earn your way or like bootstrap your way into beauty and therefore access and power and all of these things. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Okay, well, looksmaxxing, the big thing of the year right now, do we save or do we scroll? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, I’m saving it because I think there’s going to be developments. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, yeah, there are going to be new words that have never been said before. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s going be crazy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But looks maxed as a trend, I think we’re saving. After the break, a new bombshell enters the villa. Unfortunately, she’s AI generated and also made of fruit. Steffi and I are going to explain all of the drama around AI Fruit Love Island. Stick around. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have a story for you now. Are you familiar with AI Fruit Love Island? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, am I! Oh my god, I feel like it came out of nowhere and then it’s sudden, it’s like omnipresent now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, for the uninitiated, AI Fruit Love Island was this interactive AI-slop parody of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Love Island\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> with sexy anthropomorphized fruit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clip of Audio from AI Fruit Love Island] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Host: Welcome Back to Fruit Love Island. Today we’ve got a steamy challenge and after over 370,000 viewer votes, our bombshells have officially hit the villa. All right ladies let’s get this started. You’ll be kissed one by each guy and after each kiss you rate it. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so that is one of the episodes of Fruit Love Island. What was happening in that clip? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, it’s basically just a real \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Love Island\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> challenge, but done with fruit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, they have human bodies, um, but their heads are fruit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These are all like, obviously done by AI. The colors are highly saturated. It’s super bright, super like in your face. And then a grape man wearing a Hawaiian shirt and, uh, board shorts, like comes up and kisses the fruit ladies blindfolded. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clip of Audio from AI Fruit Love Island] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Host: Grapenzo, you’re up first. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Contestant: That was hot, an 8.5. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You see all these badly done reactions in the background of these AI fruit women laughing and sort of being like, ha ha ha, this is crazy. So it just is like a \u003cem>Love Island\u003c/em> episode, but with fruit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So for context, this TikTok account kind of came out of nowhere, AICinema021, and they gained about 3.1 million followers in like a week and a half. And now there are so many copycat accounts. The characters include Limeyra, the lime, Bananito, the banana who has abs and is always shirtless, Strawberrina, the strawberry, Coconick, the sexy coconut. And yeah, it’s not good. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The animation and voices are all stilted. There’s zero consistency. It’s pure slop. So viewers gave storyline feedback via Google Form and voted for their faves in the comments. And this account was getting crazy numbers, like 20 million views per episode at its peak and just churning out new episodes every day. I feel like it used to be kind of embarrassing to enjoy this kind of content, but then you had Zara Larsson and Joe Jonas being like, ‘Oh my God, I can’t wait for the next episode.’ Like major celebrities. But yeah, what’s your like initial gut reaction here? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think it makes sense why this thing is taken off, because even though young people online want to act like only boomers love watching AI slop, the fact is our brains are primed to watch AI slop. We have all these deep fried memes and internet humor is so self-referential, but it removes a lot of these barriers in our heads of consuming something like this that really feels as though, like, okay, maybe, um, what could be embarrassing previously could be ironically fun now. I love it because it’s fascinating to see how excited people get about it. But like, is the content good? No, it’s trash, but I don’t think it’s trying to be good. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Well, have you been following the great AI Fruit Love Island crash out… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have not. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…that happened over the weekend? Okay. So this account literally gained millions and millions of followers, three million followers in like a week and a half, which is insane. Like there are human creators who grind for years to get a third of that. But, you know, this account was able to just churn out content so fast and people were invested. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So basically, people were criticizing the account for being AI slop and criticizing viewers for being slop consumers. And the creator did not respond well. In TikTok comments, they complained about how hard it was to make this content and basically implied that like viewers were ungrateful. A real hilarious irony where they were like, it’s really hard because I have to prompt so many times and the AI sometimes messes up and I have to redo it and then I have edit it together. And it sometimes takes me like three hours to make one of these videos. And it’s like, yeah, well… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Imagine how long it must take to film a real TV episode? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s so funny that they’re like, this is so hard, even like having to prompt a generator to be like, and now make Strawberrina kiss the kiwi man is like too much effort. So then their video started getting removed. The creator claimed that it was part of a mass reporting campaign and started crashing onto their story. So this was the first one…they were, I guess, sick of it, right? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They were like, “This is it. I’m sick of all of you.” They were getting criticized for like wasting water basically and people were pointing out like, hey, this is like really sh*tty that you’re kind of encouraging this consumption. So they were posting like, “Was a good run, didn’t expect any of this, but here we are from being a nobody to being cancelled. I guess I’ll take it. People hate to see people win,”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s awesome! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…with screenshots from like their episodes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’t the funniest thing I’ve ever seen. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I’m so glad y’all got what you wanted. Saving the planet three gallons of water at a time, truly inspirational. It’s like, f*ck all y’all, you jealous motherf*ckers, save the planet, OMG, water, OMG. I love water, clean water, please clean water. What y’ all sound like.”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s hilarious. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Thanks for 3 million followers though. Wow, I guess some might like it.” Then they posted one final one, basically saying like, this series is over, this is it, with Bananito, a fan favorite, unfortunately, the sexy banana that is never wearing a shirt. Um, and basically they said, “All right, f*ck all you b*tches, no more Fruit Love Island. Since people are so obsessed with it, all my videos banned, I make no money. I guess I am being targeted because no other AI account is getting f*cked. Y’all heard it from Bananito himself. Bye.”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bye. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s just really funny because they also got mad that other like copycat AI accounts were like copying their theme, which is a real like, so many layers between like, being mad about the copycats and then being like suddenly like creative integrity matters basically. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then being mad at like the effort it took to make these videos. The layers of complete unawareness just go so deep. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Laughter] It’s one of those things where I’m like, oh, of course, this is where we are. People are so fixated on this idea of it’s fine until it’s me because passive consumption is just so self-centric, you’re only thinking about yourself. So of course this person’s mad that other people are stealing their AI fruit slop content without contributing to the AI slop database that can then pull out more content. Okay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s like a content self-eating snake, you know? But I will say, there is one glimmer of hope, despite how many people were obsessed with this slop. I would say there’s an equal faction of people who are really into human-made content. And so this inspired several Fruit Love Island non-AI copycats,. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">With real fruit? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…which I will show you now, which is really beautiful. I love that people are doing this. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clip of Audio from Fruit Love Island] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Host: Welcome to episode one of Fruit Love Island, that’s not AI. I’ve made sure to gather the juiciest of drama in the villa in the past day. Now let’s see what’s happened. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Contestant: I’m here to break hearts, not to fall in love. Hopefully these guys don’t get too attached. Or I don’t. I won’t though. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it’s basically a similar idea, but it’s not really animated so much as like, there are these photoshopped pictures of like people, human bodies with fruits for heads. It’s a human being that made this and it’s not as refined, but they did get voice actors on Discord to like volunteer their voices and voice all of this. And so I’m just like really encouraged by the fact that this has kind of blown up this non-AI Fruit Love Island. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think that’s beautiful. I think we need to reject modernity and embrace tradition in a lot of ways, because we already had Annoying Orange. We need to bring back the original recipes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know. And like Annoying Orange,I hated that content. I didn’t dread it. But you know what? A human being made it.\u003cbr>\n\u003cb>\u003cbr>\nSteffi Cao: \u003c/b>A human-being made it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>So AI Fruit Love Island, do we save or do we scroll?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m gonna scroll on it, but I defer to you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m going to scroll on it too. I think it had a good run. I don’t think we need more of it. I think the crash out was beautiful and hilarious and a real internet moment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Perfect irony. It’s truly, like, perfect. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tell us about this next story you brought. What’s going on with BTS’ new album? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Audio clip of BTS music] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Swim swim, \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is how it all begins\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Swim, swim\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just wanna dive…\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">BTS was away in the military for four years, and the K-pop group, who was arguably one of the biggest acts in the industry and has been for many years, returned with an album called Arirang, and it was predominantly sung in English, and because of that, as well as the fact that it was a different sound from what they’ve previously put out in the past, it was, I think, personally sonically more mixed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Audio clip of BTS music] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Watch this, watch this, \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Beat going hooligan. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We pop out, we actin’ a fool again \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It became very controversial. It didn’t also help that when they did their first live performance in Seoul after the fact, there were a lot of statistics reported about how many people actually attended. They shut down a very busy intersection in Seoul saying that 300,000 people were expected to show up. Korean officials, some of them said that as low as 42,000 showed up and there were adverse impacts from store owners who expected a lot of influx but didn’t get that. And so now there’s this huge debate happening about this album, what it means for K-pop in the industry and like how things have shifted, et cetera. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you think the fandom has aged out of, like, acting like fans? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>[Laughter] \u003c/em>I think that the industry has shifted a lot, and what a fan should act like has changed with it. Because I think in the past, the eternal struggle of a BTS ARMY was trying to convince people that K-pop was a serious art form, that it wasn’t just some silly thing that teen girls listened to, that it was corporate slop pop music, that there were a lot of uphill battles, I think, for a K-Pop fan.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And I think now, over the past four years, you’ve seen a lot more Western embrace of K-pop as a serious art form, as a legitimate cultural export, and not like a niche subculture. So I think that with “K-Pop Demon Hunters”, you have Blackpink headlining Coachella, you had KATSEYE at Lollapalooza, you had all these bigger acts coming out of a Korean system that I think is legitimized in a different way. And so I think that BTS ARMY doesn’t have to convince anyone anymore that BTS is legit. It has shifted this fan identity of like, okay, well, now what? And now what happens?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right, you mentioned that like the entire album is sang in English or like all the lyrics are mostly in English, which is interesting because Arirang is a really culturally important folk song in Korea with a lot of history behind it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clip of Arirang sung in Korean from Youtube user @Miss_Taex] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think people expected a little bit more of that cultural representation with this album. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I think BTS has also throughout their career really emphasized their Korean-ness, especially because they tend to sample a lot of traditional Korean music, a lot of Korean culture comes into play into their performances. And so I think that it was disappointing for a lot fans to open up this album and hear Teddy Swims in the song. Right? They end on a country song, which is like, possibly the most American form of music that we associate in mainstream culture. We don’t associate country music with Korea. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, right. And it’s a hard thing to follow “K-Pop Demon Hunters.” Just like the way that that movie was such a cultural moment and how it introduced so many people to Korean folklore and Korean culture and Korean language. That was a movie that was in English, but a lot of the songs were in Korean. And a lot people who have never spoken Korean learned those songs. And so it’s interesting that BTS wouldn’t see that and like kind of seize the moment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, 100%. I think that it’s frustrating as a fan to feel like the whole reason that you fell so deeply in love with this group has suddenly shifted under your feet and that the intention of the group’s project didn’t align with where you thought they were going to go. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Okay, well, BTS’s new album, do we save or do we scroll? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think. I’m going to personally scroll on it, but I think that there’s a lot to talk about in terms of like Asian artistry. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s a lot to keep an eye on, but personally, don’t come for me, ARMY. I didn’t like the album. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Me either. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I’m gonna scroll on it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was just bored. I was bored. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m in ARMY. I’m in ARMY-da. And I got the tickets. Any ARMY that wants to come for me and I will see you at MetLife. I’ve got the tickets. And what now? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But you can be disappointed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m disappointed in the album. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re allowed to be disappointed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m disappointed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And you’re allowed to scroll. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I am allowed to scroll on it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, last story for today. The Meta lawsuits. Okay, so Meta faced two separate lawsuits: one in California over social media addiction and one in New Mexico for child safety. The one in California took place in LA and it centered around this 20 year-old woman who said that she became addicted to YouTube and Instagram as a child. And that that greatly affected her mental health.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So Snapchat and TikTok were also both defendants, but they settled before it went to court. And a jury in LA found Google and Meta both negligent because the design of their apps encourages infinite scrolling. And the companies didn’t warn users about the dangers of that. So the plaintiff’s lawyer said that both Meta and Google intentionally target kids and prioritize profit over safety. \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\nThe jury concluded that Meta is liable for $4.2 million in damages, and Google is liable for $1.8 million. And then for the case in New Mexico, the state sued Meta over child safety issues. Former employees testified that underage users were shown sexualized content on Instagram and were exposed to predators. And during the court proceedings, they said that Meta’s decision to encrypt Facebook Messenger blocked access to evidence of predators grooming minors. And basically, this is the first time that New Mexico, as a state, was able to successfully sue Meta. So now Meta was ordered to pay $375 million.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So these lawsuits are being celebrated as huge wins for child safety and kind of taking down these evil tech companies. But I’m kind of skeptical of big companies like Meta and Google actually changing their practices. And whenever I hear like child safety social media lawsuit or like child safety and social media in the same sentence, I’m like, everyone wants kids to be safe. Everyone wants to protect the kids. No one wants to expose kids to predators or inappropriate content. But alarm bells are going off in my head where I’m, like, will they be using this to justify more surveillance and more censorship and more practices like age verification, which we’ve covered a lot on this show. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, it makes sense that there’s a lot of cynicism around these child safety lawsuits because what we’ve seen over our careers is that every time there has been one of these landmark lawsuits, it’s like, what is it actually put into practice? People have been concerned about this topic for many, many years, but it feels like the people who are in Congress still miss the mark on the concept of social media as itself. We’ve seen endless clips of Congress people essentially asking Mark Zuckerberg for tech help during Senate hearings. Yeah. So it makes sense that this verdict, even though it’s being lauded as a huge case, I’m not convinced on it either. We’ve seen Meta pay up a lot in the past, and it hasn’t seemed to really shift the needle at all. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s like, if anything, the practices don’t change. Kids aren’t necessarily safer. And everyone else is a little bit more surveilled and censored, like, with the current wave of age verification requirements, like, sweeping any internet platform whatsoever, where you have to put in your ID to continue using Spotify in some countries and I really distrust that. And, I do kind of worry that like any kind of trying to like ensure child safety on social media will just be used to justify more age verification laws. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, 100%. I think that the solution being trusting big tech to manage more of our data and requests that we give up more of privacy is like, it makes a lot of sense as people who’ve grown up online and we’ve seen this play before. It does, I think, breed more of a culture of surveillance.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think also the problem with this lawsuit is that like, it’s not a silver bullet. Like this is a multi-pronged problem where it’s like a part of it is having adults be smarter about their tech use and teaching their kids to critically analyze the content they’re consuming day in and day out. It’s a lot on the education system.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s on providing structural support for young kids to have more time offline to build all these social skills that when you are isolated and just on your feed even though it can be very fun and exciting to be on Tumblr as a 16-year-old, freewheeling it online, you still need an infrastructure behind you to teach you all these skills that you don’t really get when you are online.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So it’s like a multi-pronged problem. It really is on every adult, regardless of where you stand, if you have kids or not, to try and train yourself to be better about your own skillset, because they’re kids, they’re just imitating whatever resource is there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right, and it’s like, Taylor Lorenz on her Free Speech Friday series pointed out that a lot of kids do still, you still need to let them have agency online in some capacity and just like, you know, a lot kids do rely on these online resources to access information about sex ed or find queer community when they don’t have that in real life and to potentially silo them further and take that away could actually endanger kids. Okay, the child safety lawsuits with Meta and Google, do we save or do we scroll? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I feel like we’re going to have to save it because this is going to continue. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, It’s an evergreen save. This is just collecting more and more tabs every day. Thank you so much for joining us, Steffi. Where can people follow your work? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you so much for having me, Morgan. You can check me out on Instagram at Steffi Cao, S-T-E-F-F-I-C-A-O, and my sub-stack, It’s Steffi. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Perfect, thanks so much. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios, and it’s reported and hosted by me, Morgan Sung. This episode was produced by Chris Egusa, who also composed our theme song and credits music. It was edited by Chris Hambrick. Our team includes producer, Maya Cueva. Additional music by APM. Brendan Willard is our audio engineer. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our director of podcasts. Ethan Toven Lindsey is our editor in chief. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you like these deep dives? Are you closing your tabs? Then don’t forget to rate and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to the show. Maybe drop a comment too. Thanks for listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In a spring installment of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Save or Scroll\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, Morgan teams up with culture journalist Steffi Cao to dig into the stories they can’t stop thinking about. From \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">looksmaxxing to \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">AI Fruit Love Island, BTS’ new album, and Meta losing a landmark series of lawsuits, they’ve got a lot to discuss. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Save or Scroll is our series where we team up with guests for a rapid-fire roundup of internet trends that are filling our feeds right now. At the end of each segment, they’ll decide: is the post just for the group chat, or should we save it for a future episode?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC4630070510\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guest:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://stefficao.substack.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steffi Cao\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, culture journalist \u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Further Reading/Listening:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://stefficao.substack.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">More from Steffi Cao\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Substack\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.gq.com/story/inside-claviculars-thirsty-tour-of-new-york-city\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Inside Clavicular’s Thirsty Tour of New York City \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— Kieran Press-Reynolds, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">GQ\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.thedailybeast.com/in-gen-z-gym-culture-steroids-are-often-a-gateway-drug-to-the-alt-right/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why Steroids Are Now Turning Young Men into Dangerous Incels\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Steffi Cao, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Daily Beast\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.fastcompany.com/91519147/fruit-love-island-tiktok-most-popular-ai-generated-series-now-facing-trouble-in-paradise\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">‘Fruit Love Island’ is TikTok’s most popular AI-generated series. It’s now facing trouble in paradise \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— Jude Cramer, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Fast Company \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/theres-something-very-dark-about-a-lot-of-those-viral-ai-fruit-videos/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s Something Very Dark About a Lot of Those Viral AI Fruit Videos \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— Kat Tenbarge, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wired \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.teenvogue.com/story/who-decides-if-bts-album-arirang-is-korean-enough-op-ed\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Who Decides If BTS’s Album ‘Arirang’ is ‘Korean Enough’? \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— Jiye Kim, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Teen Vogue \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://slate.com/culture/2026/03/bts-arirang-album-netflix-swim-comeback-concert-2026.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">BTS’s Arirang comeback was supposed to be a triumph. What happened?\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Nadira Goffe, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Slate \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://19thnews.org/2026/03/social-media-addiction-trial-meta-youtube/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Meta and YouTube ordered to pay $3 million to young woman in social media addiction trial\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Jasmine Mithani, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The 19th\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/what-the-verdict-against-meta-and-google-says-about-the-way-we-live-now\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What the Verdict Against Meta and Google Says About the Way We Live Now\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Jeannie Suk Gersen, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The New Yorker \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ype6c6DdHQY\">The Truth About the Social Media Addiction Trial\u003c/a> — Taylor Lorenz, \u003ci>Free Speech Friday \u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Follow us on\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\"> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Instagram\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@closealltabs\"> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">TikTok\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey, it’s Morgan. We just celebrated the show’s first birthday. That’s right, Close All Tabs is a Pisces. Want to celebrate with us? It would be so, so helpful if you could rate and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to the show. And tell your friends about us too. Okay, let’s get to the episode.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey guys, welcome to Close All Tabs. I’m Morgan Sung, tech journalist and your chronically online friend, here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Except today, we aren’t opening any tabs. Instead, we’re doing another Save or Scroll. We’ve done a few of these now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Occasionally, while scrolling, I come across a truly wild post, but it might not make sense to spend an entire episode on it. Maybe I do a little digging and it turns out that the lore behind it just isn’t compelling enough to justify a deep dive, but I’m still dying to talk about it. And this is the beauty of Save or Scroll, the game where a guest comes to the show and we trade stories from the internet that we’re dying to talk about. Today, we have the one and only Steffi Cao. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you so much for having me, Morgan. I’m so excited. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, Steffi, tell us about yourself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hi everyone, I’m Steffi, I am a culture journalist and Slate’s newest dating advice columnist for Unhinged. You can find my writing everywhere from The Atlantic, to Rolling Stone, to The Guardian, to Slate now, so I’m very excited to share all my tabs and work in today. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so let’s talk about the rules of Save or Scroll. Save, as in when you see a post on TikTok or Instagram or X and you bookmark it, add it to your save folders or if you’re me, drop it in notes app and hope that you’ll remember it’s there. Basically, you’re holding onto the story because you know you’ll want to dig into it more. And scroll, as you think about it and then move on. It disappears into the digital ether.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So Steffi and I have each brought some stories that we can’t stop thinking about, and we’re gonna go back and forth to decide if they’re worth a deep dive on the show. So if we decide to scroll, it means we’ve talked about it, we’re moving on. And if we save, it means that we might hold onto the idea for a future episode.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, Steffi, please tell us about looksmaxxing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Over the past few years, looksmaxxing is the subculture of young men primarily who are seeking guidance from other men in terms of how to gamify their looks to become super, super hot. The essence of looksmaxxing is basically ‘the hotter I can be, the better my life will be around other men.’ And the pinnacle of these content creators currently is a man named Clavicular of collarbone fame.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He’s a 20-year-old white man who has a very soft elfin face and a Dorito-shaped body and has really been associated with a lot of, like, Nazi ideology, has been recently arrested for inciting a fight between two women, allegedly and also allegedly shooting an alligator in Florida. He was kicked out of Las Vegas, I believe, and has become this sort of lightning rod for this entire culture of all these men wanting to get hotter and be hotter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah and Clavicular first went viral for not only his extensive skin care and workout routine, but for also saying that he microdoses meth and would hit his face with a hammer to get a more, I guess, angular jawline. What a man. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What a guy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What a character. Clavicular is so fascinating to me because his political stances are indecipherable. He has gone on some more right-leaning podcasts, and when they try to get him to be kind of transphobic, he said… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clavicular in audio clip]\u003cbr>\nI did a podcast with Michael Knowles the other day and he’s sitting here saying like and getting all mad about transgenders and I’m like bro that’s one more person a mog you know what I mean so like I don’t get too I don’t get too upset when people go trans and all that shit. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s just another person to mog. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How would you describe mogging? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mogging, I think, is the essence of being hotter than somebody else. So if you’ve mogged them, it’s like you’ve shown them up in some way. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Audio clip of Clavicular on the Adam Friedland Show] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Clavicular: That’s the goal of the game, right, is to mog other people, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Adam: Tell the boomer cells about what that is. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Clavicular: So, mogging is essentially just, you know, outperforming them, looking better than them, yeah and just sort of dominating, right. It came from something called AMOG, which was alpha male of the group, then it was shortened to just mog, so that’s kind of like the term we use. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the language has become like a bigger than itself sort of phenomenon where, you know, maxxing and mogging have started from this internal community and then now becomes sort of like general ironic gobbledygook for everybody. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s so interesting too, because the whole looksmaxxing thing has become like the peak Manosphere content. All the allegedly straight boys are really into doing all this to impress other men. It doesn’t seem like they actually do this in any way to appeal to women. And like, I’ve seen a lot of like gay men point out, this is literally gay male culture, what they’re doing, the peacocking, trying to show each other up and like only seek validation from other men, which is from a gender perspective, I’m like, what’s going on here? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It feels like horseshoe theory a little bit. They are doing all of these performative things that come right back to a drag of what a straight man is. It’s like it’s heterosexual drag. Like you’re trying to, you know, build up your face a certain way, you’re trying to mog other straight men, like that’s drag, honey. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like that’s gender performance. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">100% Yeah, I mean, self-improvement leans so well into fascist ideology because a lot of it is predicated on this idea that you can earn your way into something better, which is exactly what looksmaxxing is, right? You can gamify your looks. Like, If you’re not hot now, all you need to do is do all these steps and gain more points, more aura points, until you have achieved this thing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Which is exactly why in Nazi Germany you see a lot of propaganda being espoused about the strongman. That was a huge beauty standard at that point in Hitler’s Germany, was specifically this idea of a man who is super jacked and is super like, is mogged, really, and I have no other word for it really. It’s just like they really..\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A mogged man has always been this cultural fascination and in many ways a mogged woman, obviously. Um, has been a huge part of, uh, fascist ideology for a long time. You know, think about all these essays about why Republican women all look the same and they have this specific look about them. And it has a lot to do with this culture of self-improvement and making all these alterations to yourself to try and earn your way or like bootstrap your way into beauty and therefore access and power and all of these things. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Okay, well, looksmaxxing, the big thing of the year right now, do we save or do we scroll? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, I’m saving it because I think there’s going to be developments. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, yeah, there are going to be new words that have never been said before. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s going be crazy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But looks maxed as a trend, I think we’re saving. After the break, a new bombshell enters the villa. Unfortunately, she’s AI generated and also made of fruit. Steffi and I are going to explain all of the drama around AI Fruit Love Island. Stick around. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have a story for you now. Are you familiar with AI Fruit Love Island? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, am I! Oh my god, I feel like it came out of nowhere and then it’s sudden, it’s like omnipresent now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, for the uninitiated, AI Fruit Love Island was this interactive AI-slop parody of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Love Island\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> with sexy anthropomorphized fruit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clip of Audio from AI Fruit Love Island] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Host: Welcome Back to Fruit Love Island. Today we’ve got a steamy challenge and after over 370,000 viewer votes, our bombshells have officially hit the villa. All right ladies let’s get this started. You’ll be kissed one by each guy and after each kiss you rate it. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so that is one of the episodes of Fruit Love Island. What was happening in that clip? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, it’s basically just a real \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Love Island\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> challenge, but done with fruit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, they have human bodies, um, but their heads are fruit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These are all like, obviously done by AI. The colors are highly saturated. It’s super bright, super like in your face. And then a grape man wearing a Hawaiian shirt and, uh, board shorts, like comes up and kisses the fruit ladies blindfolded. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clip of Audio from AI Fruit Love Island] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Host: Grapenzo, you’re up first. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Contestant: That was hot, an 8.5. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You see all these badly done reactions in the background of these AI fruit women laughing and sort of being like, ha ha ha, this is crazy. So it just is like a \u003cem>Love Island\u003c/em> episode, but with fruit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So for context, this TikTok account kind of came out of nowhere, AICinema021, and they gained about 3.1 million followers in like a week and a half. And now there are so many copycat accounts. The characters include Limeyra, the lime, Bananito, the banana who has abs and is always shirtless, Strawberrina, the strawberry, Coconick, the sexy coconut. And yeah, it’s not good. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The animation and voices are all stilted. There’s zero consistency. It’s pure slop. So viewers gave storyline feedback via Google Form and voted for their faves in the comments. And this account was getting crazy numbers, like 20 million views per episode at its peak and just churning out new episodes every day. I feel like it used to be kind of embarrassing to enjoy this kind of content, but then you had Zara Larsson and Joe Jonas being like, ‘Oh my God, I can’t wait for the next episode.’ Like major celebrities. But yeah, what’s your like initial gut reaction here? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think it makes sense why this thing is taken off, because even though young people online want to act like only boomers love watching AI slop, the fact is our brains are primed to watch AI slop. We have all these deep fried memes and internet humor is so self-referential, but it removes a lot of these barriers in our heads of consuming something like this that really feels as though, like, okay, maybe, um, what could be embarrassing previously could be ironically fun now. I love it because it’s fascinating to see how excited people get about it. But like, is the content good? No, it’s trash, but I don’t think it’s trying to be good. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Well, have you been following the great AI Fruit Love Island crash out… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have not. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…that happened over the weekend? Okay. So this account literally gained millions and millions of followers, three million followers in like a week and a half, which is insane. Like there are human creators who grind for years to get a third of that. But, you know, this account was able to just churn out content so fast and people were invested. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So basically, people were criticizing the account for being AI slop and criticizing viewers for being slop consumers. And the creator did not respond well. In TikTok comments, they complained about how hard it was to make this content and basically implied that like viewers were ungrateful. A real hilarious irony where they were like, it’s really hard because I have to prompt so many times and the AI sometimes messes up and I have to redo it and then I have edit it together. And it sometimes takes me like three hours to make one of these videos. And it’s like, yeah, well… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Imagine how long it must take to film a real TV episode? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s so funny that they’re like, this is so hard, even like having to prompt a generator to be like, and now make Strawberrina kiss the kiwi man is like too much effort. So then their video started getting removed. The creator claimed that it was part of a mass reporting campaign and started crashing onto their story. So this was the first one…they were, I guess, sick of it, right? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They were like, “This is it. I’m sick of all of you.” They were getting criticized for like wasting water basically and people were pointing out like, hey, this is like really sh*tty that you’re kind of encouraging this consumption. So they were posting like, “Was a good run, didn’t expect any of this, but here we are from being a nobody to being cancelled. I guess I’ll take it. People hate to see people win,”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s awesome! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…with screenshots from like their episodes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’t the funniest thing I’ve ever seen. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I’m so glad y’all got what you wanted. Saving the planet three gallons of water at a time, truly inspirational. It’s like, f*ck all y’all, you jealous motherf*ckers, save the planet, OMG, water, OMG. I love water, clean water, please clean water. What y’ all sound like.”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s hilarious. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Thanks for 3 million followers though. Wow, I guess some might like it.” Then they posted one final one, basically saying like, this series is over, this is it, with Bananito, a fan favorite, unfortunately, the sexy banana that is never wearing a shirt. Um, and basically they said, “All right, f*ck all you b*tches, no more Fruit Love Island. Since people are so obsessed with it, all my videos banned, I make no money. I guess I am being targeted because no other AI account is getting f*cked. Y’all heard it from Bananito himself. Bye.”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bye. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s just really funny because they also got mad that other like copycat AI accounts were like copying their theme, which is a real like, so many layers between like, being mad about the copycats and then being like suddenly like creative integrity matters basically. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then being mad at like the effort it took to make these videos. The layers of complete unawareness just go so deep. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Laughter] It’s one of those things where I’m like, oh, of course, this is where we are. People are so fixated on this idea of it’s fine until it’s me because passive consumption is just so self-centric, you’re only thinking about yourself. So of course this person’s mad that other people are stealing their AI fruit slop content without contributing to the AI slop database that can then pull out more content. Okay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s like a content self-eating snake, you know? But I will say, there is one glimmer of hope, despite how many people were obsessed with this slop. I would say there’s an equal faction of people who are really into human-made content. And so this inspired several Fruit Love Island non-AI copycats,. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">With real fruit? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…which I will show you now, which is really beautiful. I love that people are doing this. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clip of Audio from Fruit Love Island] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Host: Welcome to episode one of Fruit Love Island, that’s not AI. I’ve made sure to gather the juiciest of drama in the villa in the past day. Now let’s see what’s happened. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Contestant: I’m here to break hearts, not to fall in love. Hopefully these guys don’t get too attached. Or I don’t. I won’t though. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it’s basically a similar idea, but it’s not really animated so much as like, there are these photoshopped pictures of like people, human bodies with fruits for heads. It’s a human being that made this and it’s not as refined, but they did get voice actors on Discord to like volunteer their voices and voice all of this. And so I’m just like really encouraged by the fact that this has kind of blown up this non-AI Fruit Love Island. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think that’s beautiful. I think we need to reject modernity and embrace tradition in a lot of ways, because we already had Annoying Orange. We need to bring back the original recipes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know. And like Annoying Orange,I hated that content. I didn’t dread it. But you know what? A human being made it.\u003cbr>\n\u003cb>\u003cbr>\nSteffi Cao: \u003c/b>A human-being made it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>So AI Fruit Love Island, do we save or do we scroll?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m gonna scroll on it, but I defer to you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m going to scroll on it too. I think it had a good run. I don’t think we need more of it. I think the crash out was beautiful and hilarious and a real internet moment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Perfect irony. It’s truly, like, perfect. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tell us about this next story you brought. What’s going on with BTS’ new album? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Audio clip of BTS music] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Swim swim, \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is how it all begins\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Swim, swim\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just wanna dive…\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">BTS was away in the military for four years, and the K-pop group, who was arguably one of the biggest acts in the industry and has been for many years, returned with an album called Arirang, and it was predominantly sung in English, and because of that, as well as the fact that it was a different sound from what they’ve previously put out in the past, it was, I think, personally sonically more mixed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Audio clip of BTS music] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Watch this, watch this, \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Beat going hooligan. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We pop out, we actin’ a fool again \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It became very controversial. It didn’t also help that when they did their first live performance in Seoul after the fact, there were a lot of statistics reported about how many people actually attended. They shut down a very busy intersection in Seoul saying that 300,000 people were expected to show up. Korean officials, some of them said that as low as 42,000 showed up and there were adverse impacts from store owners who expected a lot of influx but didn’t get that. And so now there’s this huge debate happening about this album, what it means for K-pop in the industry and like how things have shifted, et cetera. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you think the fandom has aged out of, like, acting like fans? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>[Laughter] \u003c/em>I think that the industry has shifted a lot, and what a fan should act like has changed with it. Because I think in the past, the eternal struggle of a BTS ARMY was trying to convince people that K-pop was a serious art form, that it wasn’t just some silly thing that teen girls listened to, that it was corporate slop pop music, that there were a lot of uphill battles, I think, for a K-Pop fan.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And I think now, over the past four years, you’ve seen a lot more Western embrace of K-pop as a serious art form, as a legitimate cultural export, and not like a niche subculture. So I think that with “K-Pop Demon Hunters”, you have Blackpink headlining Coachella, you had KATSEYE at Lollapalooza, you had all these bigger acts coming out of a Korean system that I think is legitimized in a different way. And so I think that BTS ARMY doesn’t have to convince anyone anymore that BTS is legit. It has shifted this fan identity of like, okay, well, now what? And now what happens?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right, you mentioned that like the entire album is sang in English or like all the lyrics are mostly in English, which is interesting because Arirang is a really culturally important folk song in Korea with a lot of history behind it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clip of Arirang sung in Korean from Youtube user @Miss_Taex] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think people expected a little bit more of that cultural representation with this album. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I think BTS has also throughout their career really emphasized their Korean-ness, especially because they tend to sample a lot of traditional Korean music, a lot of Korean culture comes into play into their performances. And so I think that it was disappointing for a lot fans to open up this album and hear Teddy Swims in the song. Right? They end on a country song, which is like, possibly the most American form of music that we associate in mainstream culture. We don’t associate country music with Korea. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, right. And it’s a hard thing to follow “K-Pop Demon Hunters.” Just like the way that that movie was such a cultural moment and how it introduced so many people to Korean folklore and Korean culture and Korean language. That was a movie that was in English, but a lot of the songs were in Korean. And a lot people who have never spoken Korean learned those songs. And so it’s interesting that BTS wouldn’t see that and like kind of seize the moment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, 100%. I think that it’s frustrating as a fan to feel like the whole reason that you fell so deeply in love with this group has suddenly shifted under your feet and that the intention of the group’s project didn’t align with where you thought they were going to go. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Okay, well, BTS’s new album, do we save or do we scroll? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think. I’m going to personally scroll on it, but I think that there’s a lot to talk about in terms of like Asian artistry. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s a lot to keep an eye on, but personally, don’t come for me, ARMY. I didn’t like the album. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Me either. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I’m gonna scroll on it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was just bored. I was bored. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m in ARMY. I’m in ARMY-da. And I got the tickets. Any ARMY that wants to come for me and I will see you at MetLife. I’ve got the tickets. And what now? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But you can be disappointed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m disappointed in the album. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re allowed to be disappointed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m disappointed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And you’re allowed to scroll. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I am allowed to scroll on it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, last story for today. The Meta lawsuits. Okay, so Meta faced two separate lawsuits: one in California over social media addiction and one in New Mexico for child safety. The one in California took place in LA and it centered around this 20 year-old woman who said that she became addicted to YouTube and Instagram as a child. And that that greatly affected her mental health.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So Snapchat and TikTok were also both defendants, but they settled before it went to court. And a jury in LA found Google and Meta both negligent because the design of their apps encourages infinite scrolling. And the companies didn’t warn users about the dangers of that. So the plaintiff’s lawyer said that both Meta and Google intentionally target kids and prioritize profit over safety. \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\nThe jury concluded that Meta is liable for $4.2 million in damages, and Google is liable for $1.8 million. And then for the case in New Mexico, the state sued Meta over child safety issues. Former employees testified that underage users were shown sexualized content on Instagram and were exposed to predators. And during the court proceedings, they said that Meta’s decision to encrypt Facebook Messenger blocked access to evidence of predators grooming minors. And basically, this is the first time that New Mexico, as a state, was able to successfully sue Meta. So now Meta was ordered to pay $375 million.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So these lawsuits are being celebrated as huge wins for child safety and kind of taking down these evil tech companies. But I’m kind of skeptical of big companies like Meta and Google actually changing their practices. And whenever I hear like child safety social media lawsuit or like child safety and social media in the same sentence, I’m like, everyone wants kids to be safe. Everyone wants to protect the kids. No one wants to expose kids to predators or inappropriate content. But alarm bells are going off in my head where I’m, like, will they be using this to justify more surveillance and more censorship and more practices like age verification, which we’ve covered a lot on this show. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, it makes sense that there’s a lot of cynicism around these child safety lawsuits because what we’ve seen over our careers is that every time there has been one of these landmark lawsuits, it’s like, what is it actually put into practice? People have been concerned about this topic for many, many years, but it feels like the people who are in Congress still miss the mark on the concept of social media as itself. We’ve seen endless clips of Congress people essentially asking Mark Zuckerberg for tech help during Senate hearings. Yeah. So it makes sense that this verdict, even though it’s being lauded as a huge case, I’m not convinced on it either. We’ve seen Meta pay up a lot in the past, and it hasn’t seemed to really shift the needle at all. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s like, if anything, the practices don’t change. Kids aren’t necessarily safer. And everyone else is a little bit more surveilled and censored, like, with the current wave of age verification requirements, like, sweeping any internet platform whatsoever, where you have to put in your ID to continue using Spotify in some countries and I really distrust that. And, I do kind of worry that like any kind of trying to like ensure child safety on social media will just be used to justify more age verification laws. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, 100%. I think that the solution being trusting big tech to manage more of our data and requests that we give up more of privacy is like, it makes a lot of sense as people who’ve grown up online and we’ve seen this play before. It does, I think, breed more of a culture of surveillance.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think also the problem with this lawsuit is that like, it’s not a silver bullet. Like this is a multi-pronged problem where it’s like a part of it is having adults be smarter about their tech use and teaching their kids to critically analyze the content they’re consuming day in and day out. It’s a lot on the education system.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s on providing structural support for young kids to have more time offline to build all these social skills that when you are isolated and just on your feed even though it can be very fun and exciting to be on Tumblr as a 16-year-old, freewheeling it online, you still need an infrastructure behind you to teach you all these skills that you don’t really get when you are online.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So it’s like a multi-pronged problem. It really is on every adult, regardless of where you stand, if you have kids or not, to try and train yourself to be better about your own skillset, because they’re kids, they’re just imitating whatever resource is there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right, and it’s like, Taylor Lorenz on her Free Speech Friday series pointed out that a lot of kids do still, you still need to let them have agency online in some capacity and just like, you know, a lot kids do rely on these online resources to access information about sex ed or find queer community when they don’t have that in real life and to potentially silo them further and take that away could actually endanger kids. Okay, the child safety lawsuits with Meta and Google, do we save or do we scroll? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I feel like we’re going to have to save it because this is going to continue. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, It’s an evergreen save. This is just collecting more and more tabs every day. Thank you so much for joining us, Steffi. Where can people follow your work? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you so much for having me, Morgan. You can check me out on Instagram at Steffi Cao, S-T-E-F-F-I-C-A-O, and my sub-stack, It’s Steffi. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Perfect, thanks so much. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios, and it’s reported and hosted by me, Morgan Sung. This episode was produced by Chris Egusa, who also composed our theme song and credits music. It was edited by Chris Hambrick. Our team includes producer, Maya Cueva. Additional music by APM. Brendan Willard is our audio engineer. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our director of podcasts. Ethan Toven Lindsey is our editor in chief. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you like these deep dives? Are you closing your tabs? Then don’t forget to rate and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to the show. Maybe drop a comment too. Thanks for listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"title": "Suspect Was in Apparent Mental Health Crisis During Attack on Sam Altman’s House",
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"content": "\u003cp>The man accused of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12079446/man-threw-molotov-at-sam-altmans-home-then-threatened-to-burn-down-openai-police-say\">firebombing Sam Altman’s home\u003c/a> was experiencing a mental health crisis when he attacked the OpenAI CEO’s residence and company headquarters last week, his attorneys said Tuesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Following his first court appearance in San Francisco Superior Court, defense attorneys suggested Daniel Moreno-Gama, 20, of Spring, Texas, was overcharged and that his attacks should be tried as property crime.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It is unfair and is unjust for the San Francisco district attorney and the federal government to fearmonger and to exploit the mental illness of a vulnerable young man by turning a vandalism case into an attempted murder life exposure case to gain support of a billionaire,” Deputy Public Defender Diamond Ward said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Moreno-Gama is accused of traveling from Texas to San Francisco to target Altman and his company. Authorities said he threw a Molotov cocktail at the CEO’s Russian Hill home before threatening to burn down OpenAI’s Mission Bay building early Friday morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>No one was harmed in either of the incidents. Moreno-Gama’s attorneys said that there was some damage to a gate at Altman’s house.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Daniel is entitled to due process and fair proceedings. Myself, as well as my co-counsel and the rest of my team, will zealously defend Daniel and seek a just outcome in this case,” Ward told reporters on Tuesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079905\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\" style=\"max-width: 885px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079905\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260414-ALTMAN-ATTACK-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"885\" height=\"540\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260414-ALTMAN-ATTACK-KQED.jpg 885w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260414-ALTMAN-ATTACK-KQED-160x98.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 885px) 100vw, 885px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An image posted by the FBI shows Daniel Moreno-Gama, 20, of Spring, Texas, who authorities allege traveled to San Francisco to target Sam Altman, CEO of OpenAI. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Federal Bureau of Investigations)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Moreno-Gama faces two counts of attempted murder, arson and attempted arson, among other charges, from the San Francisco District Attorney’s office, as well as federal charges for attempted damage and destruction of property by means of explosives and possession of an unregistered firearm, brought by the U.S. Attorney’s office. If found guilty, he could face up to life in prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At a press conference announcing the charges against him on Monday, Matt Cobo, the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s acting special agent in charge of San Francisco, said Moreno-Gama’s actions reflected a “dangerous and deliberate plan to bring violence into San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The defendant is alleged to have traveled across state lines with the intent to go target an individual and a major technology company,” Cobo continued. “This was not spontaneous. This was planned, targeted, and extremely serious.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Moreno-Gama has been in custody since Friday, when he was arrested outside of OpenAI’s San Francisco headquarters. After throwing the Molotov cocktail at Altman’s home, he fled on foot and turned up at the office, where he rammed a chair into the building’s glass doors and threatened to burn it down, killing anybody inside.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>SFPD officers said Moreno-Gama was carrying additional incendiary devices, kerosene and a lighter. He also had a document titled “Your Last Warning,” which identified himself as the author, when he was arrested.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079900\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079900\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/BrookeJenkinsAltmanGetty1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/BrookeJenkinsAltmanGetty1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/BrookeJenkinsAltmanGetty1-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/BrookeJenkinsAltmanGetty1-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">San Francisco District Attorney Brooke Jenkins speaks during a press conference where charges against the suspect in the OpenAI CEO Sam Altman mansion firebombing was announced at SFPD headquarters on Monday, April 13, 2026, in San Francisco. \u003ccite>(Lea Suzuki/San Francisco Chronicle via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The multi-part manifesto allegedly “advocated against AI and for the killing and commission of other crimes against CEOs of AI companies and their investors,” according to the Department of Justice. It also included the names and purported addresses of a number of the sector’s prominent CEOs and investors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The document ended with an admission to attempting to kill Altman, and a letter addressed to the OpenAI CEO, saying, “If by some miracle you live, then I would take this as a sign from the divine to redeem yourself.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cobo said the FBI and SFPD had been in contact with the other AI leaders identified in the manifesto, and did not assess any specific threats toward them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079884\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079884\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanHomeGetty2.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanHomeGetty2.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanHomeGetty2-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanHomeGetty2-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A view of OpenAI CEO Sam Altman’s house in Russian Hill after a suspected Molotov cocktail attack in San Francisco, California, on April 13, 2026. \u003ccite>(Tayfun Coskun/Anadolu via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>U.S. Attorney Craig Missakian said the DOJ’s investigation is still developing. He said the incident could evolve to be treated as an act of domestic terrorism if officials determine that Moreno-Gama acted with intent to sway public policy or coerce government or public officials.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Moreno-Gama did not enter a plea on Tuesday, but will remain in custody without bail until his arraignment in May. A court date for the federal charges hasn’t yet been set.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Judge Kenneth Wine also granted a protective order from the district attorney’s office, ordering Moreno-Gama not to have any contact with the people named in the manifesto, or to encourage anyone directly or indirectly to contact them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s extraordinarily bad,” Wine said of Moreno-Gama’s actions in court.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>The man accused of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12079446/man-threw-molotov-at-sam-altmans-home-then-threatened-to-burn-down-openai-police-say\">firebombing Sam Altman’s home\u003c/a> was experiencing a mental health crisis when he attacked the OpenAI CEO’s residence and company headquarters last week, his attorneys said Tuesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Following his first court appearance in San Francisco Superior Court, defense attorneys suggested Daniel Moreno-Gama, 20, of Spring, Texas, was overcharged and that his attacks should be tried as property crime.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It is unfair and is unjust for the San Francisco district attorney and the federal government to fearmonger and to exploit the mental illness of a vulnerable young man by turning a vandalism case into an attempted murder life exposure case to gain support of a billionaire,” Deputy Public Defender Diamond Ward said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Moreno-Gama is accused of traveling from Texas to San Francisco to target Altman and his company. Authorities said he threw a Molotov cocktail at the CEO’s Russian Hill home before threatening to burn down OpenAI’s Mission Bay building early Friday morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>No one was harmed in either of the incidents. Moreno-Gama’s attorneys said that there was some damage to a gate at Altman’s house.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Daniel is entitled to due process and fair proceedings. Myself, as well as my co-counsel and the rest of my team, will zealously defend Daniel and seek a just outcome in this case,” Ward told reporters on Tuesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079905\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\" style=\"max-width: 885px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079905\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260414-ALTMAN-ATTACK-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"885\" height=\"540\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260414-ALTMAN-ATTACK-KQED.jpg 885w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260414-ALTMAN-ATTACK-KQED-160x98.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 885px) 100vw, 885px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An image posted by the FBI shows Daniel Moreno-Gama, 20, of Spring, Texas, who authorities allege traveled to San Francisco to target Sam Altman, CEO of OpenAI. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Federal Bureau of Investigations)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Moreno-Gama faces two counts of attempted murder, arson and attempted arson, among other charges, from the San Francisco District Attorney’s office, as well as federal charges for attempted damage and destruction of property by means of explosives and possession of an unregistered firearm, brought by the U.S. Attorney’s office. If found guilty, he could face up to life in prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At a press conference announcing the charges against him on Monday, Matt Cobo, the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s acting special agent in charge of San Francisco, said Moreno-Gama’s actions reflected a “dangerous and deliberate plan to bring violence into San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The defendant is alleged to have traveled across state lines with the intent to go target an individual and a major technology company,” Cobo continued. “This was not spontaneous. This was planned, targeted, and extremely serious.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Moreno-Gama has been in custody since Friday, when he was arrested outside of OpenAI’s San Francisco headquarters. After throwing the Molotov cocktail at Altman’s home, he fled on foot and turned up at the office, where he rammed a chair into the building’s glass doors and threatened to burn it down, killing anybody inside.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>SFPD officers said Moreno-Gama was carrying additional incendiary devices, kerosene and a lighter. He also had a document titled “Your Last Warning,” which identified himself as the author, when he was arrested.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079900\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079900\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/BrookeJenkinsAltmanGetty1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/BrookeJenkinsAltmanGetty1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/BrookeJenkinsAltmanGetty1-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/BrookeJenkinsAltmanGetty1-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">San Francisco District Attorney Brooke Jenkins speaks during a press conference where charges against the suspect in the OpenAI CEO Sam Altman mansion firebombing was announced at SFPD headquarters on Monday, April 13, 2026, in San Francisco. \u003ccite>(Lea Suzuki/San Francisco Chronicle via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The multi-part manifesto allegedly “advocated against AI and for the killing and commission of other crimes against CEOs of AI companies and their investors,” according to the Department of Justice. It also included the names and purported addresses of a number of the sector’s prominent CEOs and investors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The document ended with an admission to attempting to kill Altman, and a letter addressed to the OpenAI CEO, saying, “If by some miracle you live, then I would take this as a sign from the divine to redeem yourself.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cobo said the FBI and SFPD had been in contact with the other AI leaders identified in the manifesto, and did not assess any specific threats toward them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079884\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079884\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanHomeGetty2.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanHomeGetty2.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanHomeGetty2-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanHomeGetty2-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A view of OpenAI CEO Sam Altman’s house in Russian Hill after a suspected Molotov cocktail attack in San Francisco, California, on April 13, 2026. \u003ccite>(Tayfun Coskun/Anadolu via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>U.S. Attorney Craig Missakian said the DOJ’s investigation is still developing. He said the incident could evolve to be treated as an act of domestic terrorism if officials determine that Moreno-Gama acted with intent to sway public policy or coerce government or public officials.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Moreno-Gama did not enter a plea on Tuesday, but will remain in custody without bail until his arraignment in May. A court date for the federal charges hasn’t yet been set.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Judge Kenneth Wine also granted a protective order from the district attorney’s office, ordering Moreno-Gama not to have any contact with the people named in the manifesto, or to encourage anyone directly or indirectly to contact them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s extraordinarily bad,” Wine said of Moreno-Gama’s actions in court.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\u003cp>For nine years now, the \u003ca href=\"https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2026-ai-index-report\">AI Index Report\u003c/a> from the Stanford Institute for Human-Centered AI (HAI) has combed through data from across academia, industry and government to produce an annual snapshot of where artificial intelligence stands, and suggest where it’s heading.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The report covers the biggest technical advances, investments, trends in education, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12078982/google-updates-suicide-self-harm-safeguards-in-gemini-as-ai-lawsuits-mount\">health\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076862/scott-wiener-and-garry-tan-team-up-to-tackle-big-techs-anti-competitive-behavior\">legislation \u003c/a>and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12063587/ai-boom-leads-to-increased-concerns-of-environmental-impacts-of-data-centers\">the environment\u003c/a>, offering an empirical foundation for understanding AI’s rapid evolution and real-world adoption.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2026-ai-index-report\">2026 report\u003c/a> also details a growing tension, especially among Americans: expert excitement about what AI is capable of, and public fear for what it all means for their \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034490/ai-companions-seductive-risk-teens-senators-want-more-guardrails\">personal lives\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076726/ai-is-changing-tech-work-heres-why-it-matters-for-the-rest-of-us\">jobs\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Are we well-positioned as a society to manage its direction, absorb its disruption and ultimately decide how we’re going to leverage this technology?” said Sha Sajadieh, who leads the AI Index for Stanford’s Institute for Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She added that the general public needs to channel their fear of the unknown, not to mention news of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11939910/a-layoff-spree-at-bay-area-tech-companies\">mass layoffs\u003c/a> in one industry after another, and move past reactivity to take advantage of the best AI has to offer. “Part of that is up-skilling at every age, in every way. There’s a lot of opportunity, but the onus is on us to fully realize the opportunity this technology presents us, and understand it.”[aside postID=news_12079267 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c.jpg']The survey is considered a must-read for policymakers in academia, business and politics. But as transparency from top AI developers declines, Sajadieh acknowledged it’s harder to know what needs to be addressed, especially with regulation or legislation, “for us to understand what risks we want to mitigate first as a society.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Enthusiasm and evangelism around AI have relegated considerations about how to responsibly manage its applications and use cases to the back burner,” Stephen Baiter, executive director of the East Bay Economic Development Alliance, wrote KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He observed that jobs tied to the physical world, especially in areas like construction, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076753/northern-california-kaiser-therapists-hold-1-day-strike-over-ai-patient-care-concerns\">health care\u003c/a>, and public safety, seem to be at the least risk of disruption. But he has concerns beyond AI’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076726/ai-is-changing-tech-work-heres-why-it-matters-for-the-rest-of-us\">immediate impacts on labor\u003c/a> markets. “There has been strong deference toward delaying or ignoring sensitive core human rights and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12026604/bay-areas-ai-boom-fuels-a-dirty-energy-dilemma/\">quality of life issues\u003c/a> related to individual/personal privacy, safety, and security.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Other critics of AI go further. “The ones who don’t see eye to eye with the leading experts and the general public are the companies themselves, which are engaged in a race to replace humans as quickly as possible,” e-mailed Chase Hardin, spokesman for the non-profit The Future of Life Institute, which is dedicated to reducing global catastrophic and existential risks from transformative technologies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hardin said that public polling is unambiguously negative about the risks of AI. “We can argue about why that is, but the public is \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076608/what-\">deeply skeptical\u003c/a> of the companies themselves, the technology, and it is incredibly anxious about what it means for their children.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Top takeaways of the AI Index Report include:\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong style=\"font-size: 16px\">1. \u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>AI experts and the public have very different perspectives on the technology’s future.\u003c/strong> Assessing AI’s impact on jobs, 73% of U.S. AI experts said the technology’s impacts on jobs are positive, compared with only 23% of the public, a 50 percentage-point gap. Similar divides emerge regarding the economy and medical care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Globally, trust in governments to regulate AI varies. Among surveyed countries, the United States reported the lowest level of trust in its own government to regulate AI, at 31%. Globally, the EU is trusted more than the United States or China to regulate AI effectively.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>2. AI capability is accelerating and reaching more people than ever.\u003c/strong> Private companies built more than 9 in 10 of the world’s most powerful AI models in 2025, and some of those models are now beating human experts on PhD-level science and advanced math exams.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>3. Productivity gains from AI are appearing in many of the same fields where entry-level employment is starting to decline. \u003c/strong>Studies show productivity gains of 14% to 26% in customer support and software development, with weaker or negative effects in tasks requiring more judgment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In software development, where AI’s measured productivity gains are clearest, U.S. developers ages 22 to 25 saw employment fall nearly 20% from 2024, even as the headcount for older developers continues to grow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>4. Students are using AI, but their educational institutions are still playing catch-up. \u003c/strong>Four out of five U.S. high school and college students now \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12053799/not-even-ai-can-save-me-students-teachers-on-ai-this-school-year\">use AI for schoolwork\u003c/a>, but only half of middle and high schools have AI policies in place, and just 6% of teachers say those policies are clear.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12063947\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12063947 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A review of more than 500 clinical AI studies found nearly half relied on exam-style questions instead of real patient data, while just 5% used actual clinical data. \u003ccite>(LPETTET via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>5. AI is transforming clinical health care, but rigorous evidence remains limited. \u003c/strong>AI tools that automatically generate clinical notes from patient visits saw substantial adoption in 2025. Across multiple hospital systems, physicians reported up to 83% less time spent writing notes and significant reductions in burnout.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Beyond certain tools, however, the evidence base for clinical AI remains thin. A review of more than 500 clinical AI studies found that nearly half relied on exam-style questions rather than real patient data, with only 5% using real clinical data.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>6. AI’s environmental footprint is expanding alongside its capabilities.\u003c/strong> Training a single AI model last year generated roughly as much carbon as 16,000 round-trip flights from San Francisco to New York. Researchers estimate that running just one widely-used AI model, GPT-4o, may consume enough water annually to meet the drinking needs of every person in Los Angeles and San Francisco combined.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>7. The United States leads the world in AI investment, but its ability to attract global talent is declining.\u003c/strong> U.S. private AI investment reached $285.9 billion in 2025, more than 23 times the $12.4 billion invested in China — though looking at just private investment figures likely understates China’s total AI spending, given its government guidance funds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The U.S. also led in entrepreneurial activity with 1,953 newly funded AI companies in 2025, more than 10 times the next closest country, which was the U.K. However, the number of AI researchers and developers moving to the U.S. has dropped 89% since 2017, with an 80% decline in the last year alone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>8. The U.S.-China AI model performance gap has effectively closed. \u003c/strong>U.S. and Chinese models have traded the lead multiple times since early 2025.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The U.S. still builds more of the world’s most powerful AI models, but China is publishing more research, filing more patents, and installing more robots in its factories. South Korea stands out for its innovation density, leading the world in AI patents per capita.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>For nine years now, the \u003ca href=\"https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2026-ai-index-report\">AI Index Report\u003c/a> from the Stanford Institute for Human-Centered AI (HAI) has combed through data from across academia, industry and government to produce an annual snapshot of where artificial intelligence stands, and suggest where it’s heading.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The report covers the biggest technical advances, investments, trends in education, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12078982/google-updates-suicide-self-harm-safeguards-in-gemini-as-ai-lawsuits-mount\">health\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076862/scott-wiener-and-garry-tan-team-up-to-tackle-big-techs-anti-competitive-behavior\">legislation \u003c/a>and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12063587/ai-boom-leads-to-increased-concerns-of-environmental-impacts-of-data-centers\">the environment\u003c/a>, offering an empirical foundation for understanding AI’s rapid evolution and real-world adoption.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2026-ai-index-report\">2026 report\u003c/a> also details a growing tension, especially among Americans: expert excitement about what AI is capable of, and public fear for what it all means for their \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034490/ai-companions-seductive-risk-teens-senators-want-more-guardrails\">personal lives\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076726/ai-is-changing-tech-work-heres-why-it-matters-for-the-rest-of-us\">jobs\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The survey is considered a must-read for policymakers in academia, business and politics. But as transparency from top AI developers declines, Sajadieh acknowledged it’s harder to know what needs to be addressed, especially with regulation or legislation, “for us to understand what risks we want to mitigate first as a society.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Enthusiasm and evangelism around AI have relegated considerations about how to responsibly manage its applications and use cases to the back burner,” Stephen Baiter, executive director of the East Bay Economic Development Alliance, wrote KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He observed that jobs tied to the physical world, especially in areas like construction, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076753/northern-california-kaiser-therapists-hold-1-day-strike-over-ai-patient-care-concerns\">health care\u003c/a>, and public safety, seem to be at the least risk of disruption. But he has concerns beyond AI’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076726/ai-is-changing-tech-work-heres-why-it-matters-for-the-rest-of-us\">immediate impacts on labor\u003c/a> markets. “There has been strong deference toward delaying or ignoring sensitive core human rights and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12026604/bay-areas-ai-boom-fuels-a-dirty-energy-dilemma/\">quality of life issues\u003c/a> related to individual/personal privacy, safety, and security.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Other critics of AI go further. “The ones who don’t see eye to eye with the leading experts and the general public are the companies themselves, which are engaged in a race to replace humans as quickly as possible,” e-mailed Chase Hardin, spokesman for the non-profit The Future of Life Institute, which is dedicated to reducing global catastrophic and existential risks from transformative technologies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hardin said that public polling is unambiguously negative about the risks of AI. “We can argue about why that is, but the public is \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076608/what-\">deeply skeptical\u003c/a> of the companies themselves, the technology, and it is incredibly anxious about what it means for their children.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Top takeaways of the AI Index Report include:\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong style=\"font-size: 16px\">1. \u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>AI experts and the public have very different perspectives on the technology’s future.\u003c/strong> Assessing AI’s impact on jobs, 73% of U.S. AI experts said the technology’s impacts on jobs are positive, compared with only 23% of the public, a 50 percentage-point gap. Similar divides emerge regarding the economy and medical care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Globally, trust in governments to regulate AI varies. Among surveyed countries, the United States reported the lowest level of trust in its own government to regulate AI, at 31%. Globally, the EU is trusted more than the United States or China to regulate AI effectively.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>2. AI capability is accelerating and reaching more people than ever.\u003c/strong> Private companies built more than 9 in 10 of the world’s most powerful AI models in 2025, and some of those models are now beating human experts on PhD-level science and advanced math exams.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>3. Productivity gains from AI are appearing in many of the same fields where entry-level employment is starting to decline. \u003c/strong>Studies show productivity gains of 14% to 26% in customer support and software development, with weaker or negative effects in tasks requiring more judgment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In software development, where AI’s measured productivity gains are clearest, U.S. developers ages 22 to 25 saw employment fall nearly 20% from 2024, even as the headcount for older developers continues to grow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>4. Students are using AI, but their educational institutions are still playing catch-up. \u003c/strong>Four out of five U.S. high school and college students now \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12053799/not-even-ai-can-save-me-students-teachers-on-ai-this-school-year\">use AI for schoolwork\u003c/a>, but only half of middle and high schools have AI policies in place, and just 6% of teachers say those policies are clear.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12063947\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12063947 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A review of more than 500 clinical AI studies found nearly half relied on exam-style questions instead of real patient data, while just 5% used actual clinical data. \u003ccite>(LPETTET via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>5. AI is transforming clinical health care, but rigorous evidence remains limited. \u003c/strong>AI tools that automatically generate clinical notes from patient visits saw substantial adoption in 2025. Across multiple hospital systems, physicians reported up to 83% less time spent writing notes and significant reductions in burnout.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Beyond certain tools, however, the evidence base for clinical AI remains thin. A review of more than 500 clinical AI studies found that nearly half relied on exam-style questions rather than real patient data, with only 5% using real clinical data.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>6. AI’s environmental footprint is expanding alongside its capabilities.\u003c/strong> Training a single AI model last year generated roughly as much carbon as 16,000 round-trip flights from San Francisco to New York. Researchers estimate that running just one widely-used AI model, GPT-4o, may consume enough water annually to meet the drinking needs of every person in Los Angeles and San Francisco combined.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>7. The United States leads the world in AI investment, but its ability to attract global talent is declining.\u003c/strong> U.S. private AI investment reached $285.9 billion in 2025, more than 23 times the $12.4 billion invested in China — though looking at just private investment figures likely understates China’s total AI spending, given its government guidance funds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The U.S. also led in entrepreneurial activity with 1,953 newly funded AI companies in 2025, more than 10 times the next closest country, which was the U.K. However, the number of AI researchers and developers moving to the U.S. has dropped 89% since 2017, with an 80% decline in the last year alone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>8. The U.S.-China AI model performance gap has effectively closed. \u003c/strong>U.S. and Chinese models have traded the lead multiple times since early 2025.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The U.S. still builds more of the world’s most powerful AI models, but China is publishing more research, filing more patents, and installing more robots in its factories. South Korea stands out for its innovation density, leading the world in AI patents per capita.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>When pro-Palestinian student protests swept college campuses across the country two years ago, the movement at \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/san-francisco-state-university\">San Francisco State University\u003c/a> was an outlier.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Elsewhere, many of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11984203/pro-palestinian-protests-sweep-california-college-campuses-amid-israel-hamas-war\">campus encampments and demonstrations\u003c/a> against Israel’s war on Gaza had led to clashes with administrators or violent crackdowns by law enforcement. Meanwhile, at SF State, President Lynn Mahoney sat down in front of hundreds on Malcolm X Plaza for what was believed to have been a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11985130/sfsu-president-begins-negotiations-with-campus-gaza-protesters\">first-of-its-kind public negotiation session\u003c/a> between school leaders and students, which led to a change to the school’s endowment investment policy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We are one of the only schools in the entire nation that got divestment,” said Sam Silva, a graduate student in SF State’s communication studies department. “That is a pretty huge deal.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This week, Mahoney again sat across from a panel of five students to negotiate on a package of broader demands, including protections for undocumented students, transparency around campus funding cuts and improvements to dorm conditions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The SFSU Student Union won the session, one of the advocacy groups that led the university’s pro-Palestinian protest movement in 2024. Since the organization has evolved, applying the lessons learned two years ago to their continued push to represent students before campus administrators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Many of us have learned from the encampment, and learned how to win,” said Brian Yan, a media liaison for the Student Union. Last semester, he said, more than 180 students, graduate students and workers gathered for a Student Union “general assembly” to begin discussing the demands they negotiated this week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079189\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079189 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-07-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-07-BL_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-07-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-07-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">SFSU President Lynn Mahoney speaks with a student negotiating team in Malcolm X Plaza at San Francisco State University on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We know that we need as many students as we can possibly get,” he said. “When you see almost 200 people sitting right outside your building, saying, ‘If we don’t get [a negotiating session] we will escalate,’ I think that compels administrators to come out and bargain.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over the last two years, the group has focused on broadening campus support.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At weekly general meetings, leaders share updates, host trainings and discuss relevant news and articles. Throughout the 2025-26 school year, the organization has also built up at least nine smaller department unions, which aim to engage a wider swath of students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A group of students in the Department of Broadcast and Electronic Communication Arts launched a \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/4ncPsxmp99mU4e7SOPGnyq\">podcast\u003c/a> that ran six episodes last year, amplifying the Student Union and its departments’ platforms. Students also chat and share updates on a Substack page and Slack channel.[aside postID=news_12002307 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240829-SFSUGazarally-JY-011-1020x680.jpg']“We have our student government, and I think that functions kind of like the government. Our job is to really try to talk to the students on campus and figure out what issues they’re actually facing and how we can address them in a way that a union might, with a mass movement,” said Kenna Klop-Packel, a member of the Student Union’s leadership team.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Klop-Packel said she was already part of a student group called Mathematistas, which focused on community-building and gender equity in the math department. In the fall, the organization added the broader interests of the Student Union to its focus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I saw, and I think the people around me also saw that this is one way that we could support equity in mathematics,” Klop-Packel said, adding that many of the organizations’ goals aligned.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the math department, Klop-Packel said calculus class sizes have tripled in recent years. Other courses have more limited availability.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The people that are going to first fall through the cracks are the people who already didn’t feel at home in the math department,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The math union meets weekly, and in addition to the Mathematistas’ former community building and department-specific events, it now also “practices classroom conversations, how to explain to our classmates about these issues, and what the Student Union is doing, how we’re fighting back,” Klop-Packel told KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079196\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079196 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-23-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-23-BL_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-23-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-23-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Student demands are displayed on a banner while a student negotiating team speaks with SFSU President Lynn Mahoney and Provost Amy Sueyoshi in Malcolm X Plaza at San Francisco State University on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>At the first public negotiation session in 2024, representatives of the SFSU Students for Palestine Encampment urged changes to the university’s endowment investment policy and asked administrators to declare a genocide in Gaza.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That August, the campus announced it \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12002307/san-francisco-state-divests-from-weapons-makers-after-working-with-student-activists\">would divest from four companies\u003c/a>: weapons manufacturers Lockheed Martin and Leonardo, data analysis company and military contractor Palantir, and construction equipment maker Caterpillar. In December, it adopted a new investment policy with limitations on companies that profit from weapons manufacturing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last fall, the Student Union launched its second major negotiating campaign with a series of general assemblies. That led to the list of five demands, including increased budget transparency, that students sent to administrators in March and discussed with Mahoney and Provost Amy Sueyoshi on Wednesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Vi Lee, another member of the Student Union’s leadership team, said the focus on campus finances was a “logical next step” for the group, which formed the year before the pro-Palestinian protest movement in response to tuition hikes across the California State University system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079190\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079190 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-10-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-10-BL_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-10-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-10-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">SFSU Provost Amy Sueyoshi speaks with a student negotiating team in Malcolm X Plaza at San Francisco State University on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“Those issues had not gone away, they’d only gotten worse,” Lee said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Between 2019 and 2024, the campus \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12018149/san-francisco-state-students-faculty-mourn-job-cuts-funeral-march\">cut more than 1,000 course sections\u003c/a> and let go of 155 lecturers whose positions rely on those classes. In December, it offered buyouts to tenured and tenure-track faculty who have worked at the school for at least five years in the face of a $20 million budget deficit, \u003ca href=\"https://goldengatexpress.org/114511/news/campus/sfsu-offers-buyouts-to-all-tenure-track-and-tenured-faculty/\">according to the \u003cem>Golden Gate Xpress\u003c/em>\u003c/a>, a student news outlet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In spring 2027, SF State plans to discontinue or suspend a dozen undergraduate degree programs as well as a handful of master’s programs and minors. University spokesperson Bobby King said those cuts are meant to realign resources with enrollment demand and aren’t related to the budget. A decade ago, enrollment hovered just under 30,000 students, down to just over 20,700 this year, according to campus data.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079193\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079193\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-19-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-19-BL_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-19-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-19-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Students walk through the San Francisco State University campus on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The students have asked for the university to halt future class and program cuts and provide transparency around the budget shortfall.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They also brought forward four other wide-ranging demands: changes to the school’s policies surrounding AI, a public statement affirming that the school won’t hand over to the federal government the names of students and faculty who participate in political actions, new protections for students against Immigration and Customs Enforcement and improved conditions in dorms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The group said the list represents students’ “collective working and educational issues on campus.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During Wednesday’s hourlong session, no campus policy changes were made. Afterward, however, Mahoney said she believed some of the students’ demands would bring about changes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079187\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079187 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-03-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-03-BL_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-03-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-03-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A student negotiating team speaks with SFSU President Lynn Mahoney and Provost Amy Sueyoshi in Malcolm X Plaza at San Francisco State University on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“I think we do need to set rules for AI, and I think students and faculty and staff have to participate in those rules. I also think we need to continue to work really closely with our undocumented students and their allies to do the best we can for them at a hard moment,” she told KQED. “I think that there’s a lot of agreement. There will not be full agreement, but hopefully enough that the students continue what they’ve always done here, which is work really hard to leave San Francisco State better than they found it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Student Union plans to hold another general assembly to debrief the negotiations and determine next steps next week. But, Yan said, the Wednesday session had already accomplished at least one of the group’s goals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Every single student can see what administrators say, and hold them to account when they do make proposals … when they lie, when they make up excuses, and see when they’re not providing enough for their students,” he told KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>When pro-Palestinian student protests swept college campuses across the country two years ago, the movement at \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/san-francisco-state-university\">San Francisco State University\u003c/a> was an outlier.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Elsewhere, many of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11984203/pro-palestinian-protests-sweep-california-college-campuses-amid-israel-hamas-war\">campus encampments and demonstrations\u003c/a> against Israel’s war on Gaza had led to clashes with administrators or violent crackdowns by law enforcement. Meanwhile, at SF State, President Lynn Mahoney sat down in front of hundreds on Malcolm X Plaza for what was believed to have been a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11985130/sfsu-president-begins-negotiations-with-campus-gaza-protesters\">first-of-its-kind public negotiation session\u003c/a> between school leaders and students, which led to a change to the school’s endowment investment policy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We are one of the only schools in the entire nation that got divestment,” said Sam Silva, a graduate student in SF State’s communication studies department. “That is a pretty huge deal.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This week, Mahoney again sat across from a panel of five students to negotiate on a package of broader demands, including protections for undocumented students, transparency around campus funding cuts and improvements to dorm conditions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The SFSU Student Union won the session, one of the advocacy groups that led the university’s pro-Palestinian protest movement in 2024. Since the organization has evolved, applying the lessons learned two years ago to their continued push to represent students before campus administrators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Many of us have learned from the encampment, and learned how to win,” said Brian Yan, a media liaison for the Student Union. Last semester, he said, more than 180 students, graduate students and workers gathered for a Student Union “general assembly” to begin discussing the demands they negotiated this week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079189\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079189 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-07-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-07-BL_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-07-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-07-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">SFSU President Lynn Mahoney speaks with a student negotiating team in Malcolm X Plaza at San Francisco State University on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We know that we need as many students as we can possibly get,” he said. “When you see almost 200 people sitting right outside your building, saying, ‘If we don’t get [a negotiating session] we will escalate,’ I think that compels administrators to come out and bargain.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over the last two years, the group has focused on broadening campus support.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At weekly general meetings, leaders share updates, host trainings and discuss relevant news and articles. Throughout the 2025-26 school year, the organization has also built up at least nine smaller department unions, which aim to engage a wider swath of students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A group of students in the Department of Broadcast and Electronic Communication Arts launched a \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/4ncPsxmp99mU4e7SOPGnyq\">podcast\u003c/a> that ran six episodes last year, amplifying the Student Union and its departments’ platforms. Students also chat and share updates on a Substack page and Slack channel.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“We have our student government, and I think that functions kind of like the government. Our job is to really try to talk to the students on campus and figure out what issues they’re actually facing and how we can address them in a way that a union might, with a mass movement,” said Kenna Klop-Packel, a member of the Student Union’s leadership team.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Klop-Packel said she was already part of a student group called Mathematistas, which focused on community-building and gender equity in the math department. In the fall, the organization added the broader interests of the Student Union to its focus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I saw, and I think the people around me also saw that this is one way that we could support equity in mathematics,” Klop-Packel said, adding that many of the organizations’ goals aligned.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the math department, Klop-Packel said calculus class sizes have tripled in recent years. Other courses have more limited availability.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The people that are going to first fall through the cracks are the people who already didn’t feel at home in the math department,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The math union meets weekly, and in addition to the Mathematistas’ former community building and department-specific events, it now also “practices classroom conversations, how to explain to our classmates about these issues, and what the Student Union is doing, how we’re fighting back,” Klop-Packel told KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079196\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079196 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-23-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-23-BL_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-23-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-23-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Student demands are displayed on a banner while a student negotiating team speaks with SFSU President Lynn Mahoney and Provost Amy Sueyoshi in Malcolm X Plaza at San Francisco State University on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>At the first public negotiation session in 2024, representatives of the SFSU Students for Palestine Encampment urged changes to the university’s endowment investment policy and asked administrators to declare a genocide in Gaza.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That August, the campus announced it \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12002307/san-francisco-state-divests-from-weapons-makers-after-working-with-student-activists\">would divest from four companies\u003c/a>: weapons manufacturers Lockheed Martin and Leonardo, data analysis company and military contractor Palantir, and construction equipment maker Caterpillar. In December, it adopted a new investment policy with limitations on companies that profit from weapons manufacturing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last fall, the Student Union launched its second major negotiating campaign with a series of general assemblies. That led to the list of five demands, including increased budget transparency, that students sent to administrators in March and discussed with Mahoney and Provost Amy Sueyoshi on Wednesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Vi Lee, another member of the Student Union’s leadership team, said the focus on campus finances was a “logical next step” for the group, which formed the year before the pro-Palestinian protest movement in response to tuition hikes across the California State University system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079190\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079190 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-10-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-10-BL_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-10-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-10-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">SFSU Provost Amy Sueyoshi speaks with a student negotiating team in Malcolm X Plaza at San Francisco State University on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“Those issues had not gone away, they’d only gotten worse,” Lee said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Between 2019 and 2024, the campus \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12018149/san-francisco-state-students-faculty-mourn-job-cuts-funeral-march\">cut more than 1,000 course sections\u003c/a> and let go of 155 lecturers whose positions rely on those classes. In December, it offered buyouts to tenured and tenure-track faculty who have worked at the school for at least five years in the face of a $20 million budget deficit, \u003ca href=\"https://goldengatexpress.org/114511/news/campus/sfsu-offers-buyouts-to-all-tenure-track-and-tenured-faculty/\">according to the \u003cem>Golden Gate Xpress\u003c/em>\u003c/a>, a student news outlet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In spring 2027, SF State plans to discontinue or suspend a dozen undergraduate degree programs as well as a handful of master’s programs and minors. University spokesperson Bobby King said those cuts are meant to realign resources with enrollment demand and aren’t related to the budget. A decade ago, enrollment hovered just under 30,000 students, down to just over 20,700 this year, according to campus data.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079193\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079193\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-19-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-19-BL_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-19-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-19-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Students walk through the San Francisco State University campus on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The students have asked for the university to halt future class and program cuts and provide transparency around the budget shortfall.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They also brought forward four other wide-ranging demands: changes to the school’s policies surrounding AI, a public statement affirming that the school won’t hand over to the federal government the names of students and faculty who participate in political actions, new protections for students against Immigration and Customs Enforcement and improved conditions in dorms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The group said the list represents students’ “collective working and educational issues on campus.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During Wednesday’s hourlong session, no campus policy changes were made. Afterward, however, Mahoney said she believed some of the students’ demands would bring about changes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079187\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079187 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-03-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-03-BL_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-03-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-03-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A student negotiating team speaks with SFSU President Lynn Mahoney and Provost Amy Sueyoshi in Malcolm X Plaza at San Francisco State University on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“I think we do need to set rules for AI, and I think students and faculty and staff have to participate in those rules. I also think we need to continue to work really closely with our undocumented students and their allies to do the best we can for them at a hard moment,” she told KQED. “I think that there’s a lot of agreement. There will not be full agreement, but hopefully enough that the students continue what they’ve always done here, which is work really hard to leave San Francisco State better than they found it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Student Union plans to hold another general assembly to debrief the negotiations and determine next steps next week. But, Yan said, the Wednesday session had already accomplished at least one of the group’s goals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Every single student can see what administrators say, and hold them to account when they do make proposals … when they lie, when they make up excuses, and see when they’re not providing enough for their students,” he told KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"title": "Google Updates Suicide, Self-Harm Safeguards in Gemini as AI Lawsuits Mount",
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"content": "\u003cp>As a growing number of lawsuits allege AI chatbots are cultivating emotional dependency loops with humans, Alphabet’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/google\">Google\u003c/a> announced it will direct Gemini chatbot users to a support hotline if the conversation indicates a “potential crisis related to suicide or self-harm.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a\u003ca href=\"https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/technology/health/mental-health-updates/\"> blog post\u003c/a>, Google wrote that Gemini will introduce a redesigned “Help is available” feature, developed in collaboration with clinical experts. “Once the interface is activated, the option to reach out for professional help will remain clearly available throughout the remainder of the conversation,” the post stated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Google wrote that it has trained Gemini “not to agree with or reinforce false beliefs, and instead gently distinguish subjective experience from objective fact.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Psychologically vulnerable people turning to chatbots to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12049674\">go down rabbit holes\u003c/a> could have been predicted, according to Jennifer King, a privacy and data policy fellow at the Stanford Institute for Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence. “To some extent, you can anticipate some of the harms we see,” she told KQED. “We’ve seen people acting bad with technology across a variety of behaviors for a very long time.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although the blog post does not mention lawsuits, the family of a 36-year-old man who died in Florida\u003ca href=\"https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-03-04/google-gemini-accused-of-coaching-user-to-suicide-in-new-suit\"> sued Google\u003c/a> in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California last month, claiming that his use of Gemini devolved into a “\u003ca href=\"https://news.bloomberglaw.com/artificial-intelligence/google-gemini-accused-of-coaching-user-to-suicide-in-new-suit\">four-day descent into violent missions and coached suicide\u003c/a>.” At the time, Google said the chatbot repeatedly referred the man to a crisis hotline, but the company also promised to improve Gemini’s safeguards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.youtube.com/embed/DR-vBOsyQPE\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Google is \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12063401/openai-faces-legal-storm-over-claims-its-ai-drove-users-to-suicide-delusions\">not the only AI developer\u003c/a> facing lawsuits over allegations that its chatbots encourage some users to form obsessive relationships with them, feed delusions and even contribute to plans for suicide or murder. Research also suggests users\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12038154/kids-talking-ai-companion-chatbots-stanford-researchers-say-thats-bad-idea\"> form intense, quasi-romantic bonds\u003c/a> with chatbots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The guardrails are obviously necessary, King said. “There have been many cases of users experiencing psychosis and other problems,” she added, noting the sycophancy or agreeability built into the chatbots’ design encourages unstable behavior, “as well as their propensity to get people to believe things that just aren’t true.”[aside postID=news_12069286 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/01/OpenAI.jpg']Guadalupe Hayes-Mota, director of the bioethics program at Santa Clara University, wants to see proof that AI chatbot developers are using clinically validated guidelines for interactions where mental health care is an issue. “Who’s actually making the decision when the crisis pops up for the individual, and how is that being done?” he asked.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s an awful lot of people who study these things,” King said. “But they’re often not consulted. They’re not part of the process.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the past year and a half, OpenAI and Anthropic have also adjusted their mental-health guardrails, amid growing public scrutiny and lawsuits. Experts say that in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12059714/newsom-vetoes-most-watched-childrens-ai-bill-signs-16-others-targeting-tech\">absence of federal regulation\u003c/a>, court rulings appear to be most effectively inspiring tech companies to take proactive measures like Google’s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In March, a Los Angeles jury found Meta and YouTube negligent in a case centered around \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12063401/openai-faces-legal-storm-over-claims-its-ai-drove-users-to-suicide-delusions\">social media addiction\u003c/a>, using arguments centered around product liability and negligence — sidestepping Section 230, a longstanding legal shield that protects platforms from liability for harmful content that users post.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Psychologically vulnerable people turning to chatbots to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12049674\">go down rabbit holes\u003c/a> could have been predicted, according to Jennifer King, a privacy and data policy fellow at the Stanford Institute for Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence. “To some extent, you can anticipate some of the harms we see,” she told KQED. “We’ve seen people acting bad with technology across a variety of behaviors for a very long time.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although the blog post does not mention lawsuits, the family of a 36-year-old man who died in Florida\u003ca href=\"https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-03-04/google-gemini-accused-of-coaching-user-to-suicide-in-new-suit\"> sued Google\u003c/a> in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California last month, claiming that his use of Gemini devolved into a “\u003ca href=\"https://news.bloomberglaw.com/artificial-intelligence/google-gemini-accused-of-coaching-user-to-suicide-in-new-suit\">four-day descent into violent missions and coached suicide\u003c/a>.” At the time, Google said the chatbot repeatedly referred the man to a crisis hotline, but the company also promised to improve Gemini’s safeguards.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/DR-vBOsyQPE'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/DR-vBOsyQPE'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>Google is \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12063401/openai-faces-legal-storm-over-claims-its-ai-drove-users-to-suicide-delusions\">not the only AI developer\u003c/a> facing lawsuits over allegations that its chatbots encourage some users to form obsessive relationships with them, feed delusions and even contribute to plans for suicide or murder. Research also suggests users\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12038154/kids-talking-ai-companion-chatbots-stanford-researchers-say-thats-bad-idea\"> form intense, quasi-romantic bonds\u003c/a> with chatbots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The guardrails are obviously necessary, King said. “There have been many cases of users experiencing psychosis and other problems,” she added, noting the sycophancy or agreeability built into the chatbots’ design encourages unstable behavior, “as well as their propensity to get people to believe things that just aren’t true.”\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Guadalupe Hayes-Mota, director of the bioethics program at Santa Clara University, wants to see proof that AI chatbot developers are using clinically validated guidelines for interactions where mental health care is an issue. “Who’s actually making the decision when the crisis pops up for the individual, and how is that being done?” he asked.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s an awful lot of people who study these things,” King said. “But they’re often not consulted. They’re not part of the process.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the past year and a half, OpenAI and Anthropic have also adjusted their mental-health guardrails, amid growing public scrutiny and lawsuits. Experts say that in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12059714/newsom-vetoes-most-watched-childrens-ai-bill-signs-16-others-targeting-tech\">absence of federal regulation\u003c/a>, court rulings appear to be most effectively inspiring tech companies to take proactive measures like Google’s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In March, a Los Angeles jury found Meta and YouTube negligent in a case centered around \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12063401/openai-faces-legal-storm-over-claims-its-ai-drove-users-to-suicide-delusions\">social media addiction\u003c/a>, using arguments centered around product liability and negligence — sidestepping Section 230, a longstanding legal shield that protects platforms from liability for harmful content that users post.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\u003cp>Up to 2,400 mental health professionals at \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/kaiser-permanente\">Kaiser Permanente\u003c/a> in Northern California are set to hold a one-day strike on Wednesday over what they warn is the company’s increasing use of artificial intelligence to the detriment of patient care and, potentially, of their jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Unions representing tens of thousands of \u003ca href=\"https://www.nationalnursesunited.org/press/kaiser-nurses-to-hold-24-hour-sympathy-strike-in-solidarity-with-kaiser-mental-health-workers\">nurses\u003c/a>, as well as hospital and facility maintenance professionals, announced they will join picket lines in support of the therapists, including psychologists and social workers, in the Bay Area, Central Valley and Sacramento regions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During monthslong labor contract negotiations, Kaiser has proposed making it easier to lay off therapists and has resisted language stating that the company won’t \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1999553/will-ai-replace-your-therapist-kaiser-wont-say-no\">use AI to replace them\u003c/a>, according to the National Union of Healthcare Workers, which represents the striking mental health employees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s really sad that this is how they are choosing to behave,” said Leemore Federman, a Kaiser therapist in San Leandro who specializes in post-traumatic stress disorder and anxiety and is part of the union’s bargaining team. “If Kaiser wanted to, they have abundant resources to make the mental health department at Kaiser the best, and instead they’re doing everything to make it the worst.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Oakland-based health care giant, which has been under pressure to improve timely access to mental health and substance use disorder services, denies that AI makes any medical or care decisions or is being used to replace therapists.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kaiser said it has invested nearly $2 billion since 2020 to expand mental health facilities, hire and train clinicians, and grow its provider network so its more than 9 million California health plan enrollees can get care faster.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076878\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076878\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-02-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-02-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-02-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-02-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mental health workers strike at the Kaiser Oakland Medical Facility in Oakland on March 18, 2026. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We are growing our workforce, not shrinking it, and our commitment to building a pipeline of trained therapists is unquestionable,” the company said in a statement. “We see technology — and AI, in particular — as a way to support our clinicians in managing their practice and provide them with tools that facilitate greater access to care and connection with patients — all to achieve the best possible outcomes for our patients.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We believe AI can be helpful when it supports clinicians — by reducing administrative work or improving efficiency — but it does not replace clinical judgment or human assessment,” Kaiser said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As the AI boom advances with few guardrails, workers in health care and other industries are feeling anxiety about how their employers may use the technology, said Adam Horwitz, an assistant professor at the University of Michigan’s Department of Psychiatry.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So far, health care companies have introduced AI tools mostly for administrative support tasks, such as note-taking during appointments or patient scheduling, rather than direct patient care. But company decisions to roll out the technology are often happening at high-level meetings behind closed doors without much worker input, which fuels mistrust, he said.[aside postID=news_12072837 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/02/020926_KAISERSTRIKE_8137B-KQED.jpg']“It’s connected to the broader anxiety that we just don’t know where all this is going,” said Horwitz, who studies how digital technologies, including AI, can improve access to care. “Across industries, there’s a lot of like, ‘Well, wait a minute, having these AI things definitely makes money for people at the top at the expense of workers doing the jobs. Why are we all getting in line to just try to keep propelling this forward without having a thoughtful approach to it?’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On Wednesday morning, therapists walked off their jobs and headed to picket lines outside Kaiser facilities in Oakland, Sacramento, Santa Rosa, Santa Clara and Fresno.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In Oakland, Harimandir Khalsa, 55, said her team of clinicians who screen patients seeking mental health services in the Walnut Creek area has been reduced by two-thirds. Instead, Kaiser is increasingly using telephone operators and online surveys or questionnaires that use AI to screen patients.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I have seen firsthand patients who were screened by a telephone service operator and sent to an external referral network. In some cases, they were self-harming … they should never have been sent out, they should have talked to a clinician to assess risk, to come up with safety planning and get them a more urgent appointment,” Khalsa told KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This latest walkout comes about a month after the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12074265/widespread-kaiser-strike-to-end-after-4-weeks-with-no-deal-yet\">end of a four-week strike\u003c/a> that initially involved up to 31,000 nurses, physician assistants, physical therapists, optometrists and other health care employees in California and Hawaii. Those workers are currently voting on whether to ratify tentative agreements the union said included wage increases, as well as staffing and AI protections.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2022, therapists at Kaiser represented by the same union \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11923034/were-drowning-why-kaiser-mental-health-workers-are-striking\">went on strike for 10 weeks\u003c/a>, over concerns about patient care delays, workloads, understaffing and other issues.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076877\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12076877 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-01-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-01-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-01-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-01-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mental health workers strike at the Kaiser Oakland Medical Facility in Oakland on March 18, 2026. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Kaiser has agreed to multimillion-dollar settlements with state and federal regulators in recent years related to long wait times for patients seeking mental health services. Last month, the U.S. Department of Labor \u003ca href=\"https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/ebsa/ebsa20260210\">announced \u003c/a>the company will pay a $2.8 million penalty, and at least $28.3 million to reimburse patients who sought out-of-network care after Kaiser delayed or improperly denied care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2023, the state’s largest health plan said it would invest $150 million over five years to improve behavioral health for its patients and pay a $50 million fine to resolve a California Department of Managed Health Care \u003ca href=\"https://wpso.dmhc.ca.gov/enfactions/docs/4367/1697136977902.pdf\">investigation\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A spokesperson for the agency, which oversees mental health services in the state, said it is monitoring Kaiser’s progress and investigating a union \u003ca href=\"https://nuhw.org/wp-content/uploads/NUHW-Complaint_DMHC_NorCalTriageServices_2025.docx-1.pdf\">complaint\u003c/a> alleging that Kaiser is flouting a state law requiring licensed health care professionals to initially assess patients to determine what care they need.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>UNHW maintains that beginning in 2024, Kaiser changed how it screens patients when they call or go online seeking care. The company unilaterally replaced many trained clinicians with unqualified telephone operators and an online questionnaire with AI to make recommendations on next steps, according to the union, which considers the move an unfair labor practice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076882\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076882\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-06-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-06-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-06-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-06-KQED-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mental health workers strike at the Kaiser Oakland Medical Facility in Oakland on March 18, 2026. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Federman, the therapist in San Leandro, said the new system is missing high-risk patients, making them wait longer than recommended to see a provider.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m seeing a lot of people, where it’s like, ‘wow, they’re really acute,’ and by the time triage [sends them], it’s been a month that they’ve waited — and that’s really dangerous,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The therapists’ contract with Kaiser ended last September. During bargaining, the company has sought to eliminate current workload limits that allow therapists to have enough time to care for existing patients, Federman said. She worries that the employer may seek to lay off in-house therapists and increasingly refer patients to outside contractors, who won’t offer the same quality of integrated care Kaiser advertises.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The nonprofit health organization countered that it is seeking flexibility to adjust to a “higher than ever” demand for its services, and does not plan to eliminate therapists’ jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Our contract proposals are aimed at achieving the flexibility we and our therapists need to improve mental health access for our members even as patient needs continue to rise,” the company’s statement said. “We have nearly doubled our mental health workforce over the last 10 years and have never had a reduction-in-force of mental health clinicians in Northern California.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Up to 2,400 mental health professionals at \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/kaiser-permanente\">Kaiser Permanente\u003c/a> in Northern California are set to hold a one-day strike on Wednesday over what they warn is the company’s increasing use of artificial intelligence to the detriment of patient care and, potentially, of their jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Unions representing tens of thousands of \u003ca href=\"https://www.nationalnursesunited.org/press/kaiser-nurses-to-hold-24-hour-sympathy-strike-in-solidarity-with-kaiser-mental-health-workers\">nurses\u003c/a>, as well as hospital and facility maintenance professionals, announced they will join picket lines in support of the therapists, including psychologists and social workers, in the Bay Area, Central Valley and Sacramento regions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During monthslong labor contract negotiations, Kaiser has proposed making it easier to lay off therapists and has resisted language stating that the company won’t \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1999553/will-ai-replace-your-therapist-kaiser-wont-say-no\">use AI to replace them\u003c/a>, according to the National Union of Healthcare Workers, which represents the striking mental health employees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s really sad that this is how they are choosing to behave,” said Leemore Federman, a Kaiser therapist in San Leandro who specializes in post-traumatic stress disorder and anxiety and is part of the union’s bargaining team. “If Kaiser wanted to, they have abundant resources to make the mental health department at Kaiser the best, and instead they’re doing everything to make it the worst.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Oakland-based health care giant, which has been under pressure to improve timely access to mental health and substance use disorder services, denies that AI makes any medical or care decisions or is being used to replace therapists.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kaiser said it has invested nearly $2 billion since 2020 to expand mental health facilities, hire and train clinicians, and grow its provider network so its more than 9 million California health plan enrollees can get care faster.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076878\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076878\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-02-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-02-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-02-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-02-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mental health workers strike at the Kaiser Oakland Medical Facility in Oakland on March 18, 2026. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We are growing our workforce, not shrinking it, and our commitment to building a pipeline of trained therapists is unquestionable,” the company said in a statement. “We see technology — and AI, in particular — as a way to support our clinicians in managing their practice and provide them with tools that facilitate greater access to care and connection with patients — all to achieve the best possible outcomes for our patients.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We believe AI can be helpful when it supports clinicians — by reducing administrative work or improving efficiency — but it does not replace clinical judgment or human assessment,” Kaiser said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As the AI boom advances with few guardrails, workers in health care and other industries are feeling anxiety about how their employers may use the technology, said Adam Horwitz, an assistant professor at the University of Michigan’s Department of Psychiatry.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So far, health care companies have introduced AI tools mostly for administrative support tasks, such as note-taking during appointments or patient scheduling, rather than direct patient care. But company decisions to roll out the technology are often happening at high-level meetings behind closed doors without much worker input, which fuels mistrust, he said.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“It’s connected to the broader anxiety that we just don’t know where all this is going,” said Horwitz, who studies how digital technologies, including AI, can improve access to care. “Across industries, there’s a lot of like, ‘Well, wait a minute, having these AI things definitely makes money for people at the top at the expense of workers doing the jobs. Why are we all getting in line to just try to keep propelling this forward without having a thoughtful approach to it?’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On Wednesday morning, therapists walked off their jobs and headed to picket lines outside Kaiser facilities in Oakland, Sacramento, Santa Rosa, Santa Clara and Fresno.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In Oakland, Harimandir Khalsa, 55, said her team of clinicians who screen patients seeking mental health services in the Walnut Creek area has been reduced by two-thirds. Instead, Kaiser is increasingly using telephone operators and online surveys or questionnaires that use AI to screen patients.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I have seen firsthand patients who were screened by a telephone service operator and sent to an external referral network. In some cases, they were self-harming … they should never have been sent out, they should have talked to a clinician to assess risk, to come up with safety planning and get them a more urgent appointment,” Khalsa told KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This latest walkout comes about a month after the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12074265/widespread-kaiser-strike-to-end-after-4-weeks-with-no-deal-yet\">end of a four-week strike\u003c/a> that initially involved up to 31,000 nurses, physician assistants, physical therapists, optometrists and other health care employees in California and Hawaii. Those workers are currently voting on whether to ratify tentative agreements the union said included wage increases, as well as staffing and AI protections.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2022, therapists at Kaiser represented by the same union \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11923034/were-drowning-why-kaiser-mental-health-workers-are-striking\">went on strike for 10 weeks\u003c/a>, over concerns about patient care delays, workloads, understaffing and other issues.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076877\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12076877 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-01-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-01-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-01-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-01-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mental health workers strike at the Kaiser Oakland Medical Facility in Oakland on March 18, 2026. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Kaiser has agreed to multimillion-dollar settlements with state and federal regulators in recent years related to long wait times for patients seeking mental health services. Last month, the U.S. Department of Labor \u003ca href=\"https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/ebsa/ebsa20260210\">announced \u003c/a>the company will pay a $2.8 million penalty, and at least $28.3 million to reimburse patients who sought out-of-network care after Kaiser delayed or improperly denied care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2023, the state’s largest health plan said it would invest $150 million over five years to improve behavioral health for its patients and pay a $50 million fine to resolve a California Department of Managed Health Care \u003ca href=\"https://wpso.dmhc.ca.gov/enfactions/docs/4367/1697136977902.pdf\">investigation\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A spokesperson for the agency, which oversees mental health services in the state, said it is monitoring Kaiser’s progress and investigating a union \u003ca href=\"https://nuhw.org/wp-content/uploads/NUHW-Complaint_DMHC_NorCalTriageServices_2025.docx-1.pdf\">complaint\u003c/a> alleging that Kaiser is flouting a state law requiring licensed health care professionals to initially assess patients to determine what care they need.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>UNHW maintains that beginning in 2024, Kaiser changed how it screens patients when they call or go online seeking care. The company unilaterally replaced many trained clinicians with unqualified telephone operators and an online questionnaire with AI to make recommendations on next steps, according to the union, which considers the move an unfair labor practice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076882\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076882\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-06-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-06-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-06-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260318-KAISER-MENTAL-HEALTH-STRIKE-MD-06-KQED-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mental health workers strike at the Kaiser Oakland Medical Facility in Oakland on March 18, 2026. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Federman, the therapist in San Leandro, said the new system is missing high-risk patients, making them wait longer than recommended to see a provider.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m seeing a lot of people, where it’s like, ‘wow, they’re really acute,’ and by the time triage [sends them], it’s been a month that they’ve waited — and that’s really dangerous,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The therapists’ contract with Kaiser ended last September. During bargaining, the company has sought to eliminate current workload limits that allow therapists to have enough time to care for existing patients, Federman said. She worries that the employer may seek to lay off in-house therapists and increasingly refer patients to outside contractors, who won’t offer the same quality of integrated care Kaiser advertises.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The nonprofit health organization countered that it is seeking flexibility to adjust to a “higher than ever” demand for its services, and does not plan to eliminate therapists’ jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Our contract proposals are aimed at achieving the flexibility we and our therapists need to improve mental health access for our members even as patient needs continue to rise,” the company’s statement said. “We have nearly doubled our mental health workforce over the last 10 years and have never had a reduction-in-force of mental health clinicians in Northern California.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Artificial intelligence has rapidly changed what tech workers in the Bay Area do every day. Whether you’re a software engineer or you work in sales, most employees at tech firms are expected to regularly use AI.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Rya Jetha with the San Francisco Standard explains how AI is affecting tech employees across the industry, and how these changes could be a sign of what’s to come for the rest of us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://sfstandard.com/2026/02/19/ai-writes-code-now-s-left-software-engineers/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">AI writes the code now. What’s left for software engineers?\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://sfstandard.com/2026/03/05/engineer-2025-ai-land-everyone-s-builder-now/\">‘Engineer’ is so 2025. In AI land, everyone’s a ‘builder’ now\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://sfstandard.com/2026/01/28/ai-booming-tech-jobs-san-francisco/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">AI is booming. Tech jobs in San Francisco are not\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC8417277777&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:03] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. If you want a glimpse into what artificial intelligence could mean for the future of work, life for the average tech worker in San Francisco right now is a pretty good place to look.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:26] \u003c/em>Engineering and what’s happening in software engineering is a bellwether for what might happen in other industries. And you see the people building this technology warning about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:38] \u003c/em>Whether you’re writing code or working in sales, almost everyone in tech is expected to use AI. And even those in tech warn that it’s a sign of what’s to come for workers in other industries. Today, how AI is changing work inside the tech industry and why it matters to the rest of us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:10] \u003c/em>For startups and for some medium and big tech companies, and this is specifically in the Bay Area, their CEOs are demanding AI fluency from their workers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:23] \u003c/em>Rya Jetha is a tech culture reporter for the San Francisco Standard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:28] \u003c/em>That basically means you need to come into the job willing to use AI and not being an AI skeptic and also being willing to change your work processes and develop completely different new ways of doing your job using AI. Even if you’re not a software engineer, you are being expected to use a AI. At big old companies, I think for software engineers, it’s you are basically deemed a dinosaur if you’re not using AI coding tools. Andy Jassy, the CEO of Amazon, he recently said that he expects the workforce to be thinned over the next few years because of AI. And he encourages employees to experiment with AI as much as possible and take trainings and play around with it. To basically bulletproof their career, if they don’t want to be one of the casualties of the thinning of the workforce.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:23] \u003c/em>I mean, it sounds like these workers don’t really have a choice to be anything other than pro-AI. I would say that is largely accurate in San Francisco, yeah. I guess what do we mean when we say these workers are using AI in their work?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:41] \u003c/em>For software engineers, it’s basically a must to be using OpenAI codecs or Claude code, which are both coding tools. And you’re basically expected to be deploying multiple agents at a time. And to explain how that works, an agent is basically software that can autonomously do work for you on your behalf end to end. And so as a software engineer, I might be like, ‘OK, this is a problem I have to solve. Go and do it.’ The agent will figure out the best way to do it. It will create a roadmap for itself. It will do it, it will test it, and it will come back to you with everything completely done. When we are thinking about why software engineers are freaked out about AI, it’s because in previous waves of automation, they still had to understand their jobs and design things, even though they were getting the efficiency gains. But some software engineers I’ve spoken to who are rank and file at big tech companies, they’re like, this is fundamentally different. AI has ideas about how to do my own job that I have spent years and years training for. And in many ways, engineers have created the perfect training ground for AI to do their jobs because it’s a fundamentally digital job. And there are huge repositories of code online for AI have been coded on. I think it’s worth discussing how non-technical people are being expected to use AI. So say that I work in sales or marketing or communications, I’m still being expected to play around with AI, whether that’s using AI to make slides or to do research for me or to use it for writing as well. It’s just an expectation now that even non-technical people are even using AI to like do coding, because you can just prompt AI in plain English and it will spin up a website for you or spin up another technical data analysis for you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:45] \u003c/em>I mean, I feel like everyone has feelings about AI one way or another. How would you describe the vibe inside the tech industry in the Bay Area when it comes to AI right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:55] \u003c/em>I think it really depends on whether you’re talking to startups or people at big tech companies or entry-level workers. I think if you talk to some really tech-pilled people who have fully embraced AI, especially people who work at startups, it is extreme excitement because they can suddenly do so much more with so much less. I was talking to one engineer at a startup who basically said he has had so many side project ideas. And he’s been able to execute every single one of them in the past few months. And before, he would have had to employ four software engineers and pay them exorbitant salaries, but now he just has to pay a few hundred bucks to Anthropic to make all of his software dreams come true. I think if you’re an entry-level Woko, you’re feeling extreme despair about the situation. And even when you go on college campuses, People who are majoring in computer science feel uncertain about the world, which in a previous era would have been crazy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:55] \u003c/em>I mean, yeah, I was just telling you before we were recording, one of my closest friends is a software engineer now, and we were just talking about how just 10 years ago, you know, studying computer science was seen as a golden ticket, that it would lead to job security perhaps maybe that more than any other major at the time and and that that meritocracy was real, and now I feel like that’s just completely unfolding for him with AI.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:27] \u003c/em>I was interviewing a computer science professor at UC Berkeley for the story and he said they worked really hard in high school to get into the best computer science programs thinking that it was the golden ticket. They get to college and they work really hard to ace all their computer science classes so they can land that prestigious big tech job and now they’re in those jobs and The promise is not all that it was chalked up to be It’s very existentially upsetting when you sink, you know, anywhere from like four to six years of your life, honing your craft to write good code and suddenly a machine is able to do all of it. People who are trying to get their career started or entry-level workers with not that much experience, it’s a very, very scary time. Coding and software engineering jobs have been totally upended by AI, but at the same time, you now, there’s… There’s always a debate about what job is going to be next.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:31] \u003c/em>Is AI leading to mass layoffs already? Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:45] \u003c/em>I mean, I feel like every week or something, there’s news about layoffs in the tech industry. How much of that has to do with AI taking jobs?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:55] \u003c/em>That is a really good question, and I’m sorry to say, but we don’t know. We’ve heard about a lot of layoffs that was Atlassian block laying off 40% of its workforce a few weeks ago. There have been layoffs at Salesforce and Amazon and Pinterest, and they’ve all blamed it either partially or totally on AI. But I think when I speak to exports, they are very skeptical that these layoffs are actually because of AI. If we think back to the pandemic, there was massive hiring because these tech companies were adapting to this new world that we lived in, in terms of e-commerce and streaming. And they arguably over-hired quite a bit. And so it could be that these layoffs are just a product of that pandemic over- hiring, but to get in the head of a tech executive for a second. You look more, you know, techno futuristic and cool to Wall Street if you are blaming your layoffs on AI and not on the fact that you made a hiring mistake during the pandemic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:03] \u003c/em>Is AI also changing how much work people are expected to do? Like, if you can use AI to code faster, you now have more work to do?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:12] \u003c/em>Software engineers specifically, they are being expected to produce 10 times the amount of code that they were before. And I think this has introduced kind of an interesting problem for rank and file software engineers who, let’s say, are on like the oleo side of their career, they really want to understand what they are doing, but they feel like because of the expectations at their companies, they just have to. Use AI tools to generate that code, and they don’t have time to review it and understand what is going on. I think outside of the more technical domains, people using AI, there have been quite a few studies about this, but people using is increasing workload for people. And if you just think of someone generating a super bad presentation using AI or sending you a really sloppy email to go to a customer, I mean, I hear this from friends. It’s like that one colleague who is super chat GPT-pilled and uses chat GPTs for everything and doesn’t really care about the quality of their work. It’s making some people mad that they have to spend more hours correcting their colleagues. And even when they’re experimenting with tools, if companies are mandating them to experiment with their tools, it’s not like they’re being given half a day to do it. They’re expected to do it on top of their current jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:35] \u003c/em>Right, yeah. They’re very real, like, labor implications with this technology.\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:39] \u003c/em>Totally. Totally. And I think it’s really interesting because with every technological revolution we’ve kind of been promised that like, oh, we will walk less. In the 1930s, John Maynard Keynes also predicted that that technological revolutions would bring in a 15-hour work week and more leisure time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:56] \u003c/em>That sounds so nice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:58] \u003c/em>It sounds so Nice. It doesn’t seem anywhere close though. Because I mean, I think now with AI, people are walking even more than before. And they’re like, oh, where was, where did this promise go? We even walk on the weekends now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:12:16] \u003c/em>I mean, I do think some people might be hearing this and sort of thinking to themselves, like, boo-hoo, the techies are getting all existential because of this tech that in many ways they helped to create or they helped to uplift, but why do you think what is happening among tech workers right now matters to the rest of us?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:12:38] \u003c/em>I think it matters hugely, I think engineering and what’s happening in software engineering is a bellwether for what might happen in other industries. And you see the people building this technology, you’re warning about it. And so I think, even though it’s come for codos forced by virtue of their jobs, there are other careers on the chopping block that aren’t necessarily tech jobs. I mean, customer service agents. Health care. Health care, yeah, lawyers, consultants. And what we’re seeing is that Wall Street is rewarding companies for slashing their workforces. Because a Leno workforce means you have bigger profits, you can reinvest in other things. And so. If CEOs get this like, I want to shave my workforce bug by looking at other companies doing it, I think it could be pretty catastrophic for a lot of people. I mean, I talk to a lot of experts about how this is going to play out, and on the one hand, some are really down on the future. On the other hand, some experts are like, every time there has been a technological transformation or some sort of invention that improves the efficiency of engineering, more software gets built, and it gets democratized. And at a lot of companies, especially, you know… Smaller companies that cannot afford a software engineer and pay them, you know, $300,000 a year Software is the bottleneck Now it is making software cheaper But maybe you still want someone who has technical expertise to build that software for you So it could be that in the future there are way more software engineering jobs than before Maybe there is a future in which we’re gonna go through a small period of transition now and we will live in a world in which there are loads of jobs and there is no long-term disruption to the labor market. And I think that is the big question on everybody’s mind right now is that is this like other technological revolutions or is this fundamentally different.\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Artificial intelligence has rapidly changed what tech workers in the Bay Area do every day. Whether you’re a software engineer or you work in sales, most employees at tech firms are expected to regularly use AI.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Rya Jetha with the San Francisco Standard explains how AI is affecting tech employees across the industry, and how these changes could be a sign of what’s to come for the rest of us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://sfstandard.com/2026/02/19/ai-writes-code-now-s-left-software-engineers/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">AI writes the code now. What’s left for software engineers?\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://sfstandard.com/2026/03/05/engineer-2025-ai-land-everyone-s-builder-now/\">‘Engineer’ is so 2025. In AI land, everyone’s a ‘builder’ now\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://sfstandard.com/2026/01/28/ai-booming-tech-jobs-san-francisco/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">AI is booming. Tech jobs in San Francisco are not\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC8417277777&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:03] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. If you want a glimpse into what artificial intelligence could mean for the future of work, life for the average tech worker in San Francisco right now is a pretty good place to look.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:26] \u003c/em>Engineering and what’s happening in software engineering is a bellwether for what might happen in other industries. And you see the people building this technology warning about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:38] \u003c/em>Whether you’re writing code or working in sales, almost everyone in tech is expected to use AI. And even those in tech warn that it’s a sign of what’s to come for workers in other industries. Today, how AI is changing work inside the tech industry and why it matters to the rest of us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:10] \u003c/em>For startups and for some medium and big tech companies, and this is specifically in the Bay Area, their CEOs are demanding AI fluency from their workers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:23] \u003c/em>Rya Jetha is a tech culture reporter for the San Francisco Standard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:28] \u003c/em>That basically means you need to come into the job willing to use AI and not being an AI skeptic and also being willing to change your work processes and develop completely different new ways of doing your job using AI. Even if you’re not a software engineer, you are being expected to use a AI. At big old companies, I think for software engineers, it’s you are basically deemed a dinosaur if you’re not using AI coding tools. Andy Jassy, the CEO of Amazon, he recently said that he expects the workforce to be thinned over the next few years because of AI. And he encourages employees to experiment with AI as much as possible and take trainings and play around with it. To basically bulletproof their career, if they don’t want to be one of the casualties of the thinning of the workforce.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:23] \u003c/em>I mean, it sounds like these workers don’t really have a choice to be anything other than pro-AI. I would say that is largely accurate in San Francisco, yeah. I guess what do we mean when we say these workers are using AI in their work?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:41] \u003c/em>For software engineers, it’s basically a must to be using OpenAI codecs or Claude code, which are both coding tools. And you’re basically expected to be deploying multiple agents at a time. And to explain how that works, an agent is basically software that can autonomously do work for you on your behalf end to end. And so as a software engineer, I might be like, ‘OK, this is a problem I have to solve. Go and do it.’ The agent will figure out the best way to do it. It will create a roadmap for itself. It will do it, it will test it, and it will come back to you with everything completely done. When we are thinking about why software engineers are freaked out about AI, it’s because in previous waves of automation, they still had to understand their jobs and design things, even though they were getting the efficiency gains. But some software engineers I’ve spoken to who are rank and file at big tech companies, they’re like, this is fundamentally different. AI has ideas about how to do my own job that I have spent years and years training for. And in many ways, engineers have created the perfect training ground for AI to do their jobs because it’s a fundamentally digital job. And there are huge repositories of code online for AI have been coded on. I think it’s worth discussing how non-technical people are being expected to use AI. So say that I work in sales or marketing or communications, I’m still being expected to play around with AI, whether that’s using AI to make slides or to do research for me or to use it for writing as well. It’s just an expectation now that even non-technical people are even using AI to like do coding, because you can just prompt AI in plain English and it will spin up a website for you or spin up another technical data analysis for you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:45] \u003c/em>I mean, I feel like everyone has feelings about AI one way or another. How would you describe the vibe inside the tech industry in the Bay Area when it comes to AI right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:55] \u003c/em>I think it really depends on whether you’re talking to startups or people at big tech companies or entry-level workers. I think if you talk to some really tech-pilled people who have fully embraced AI, especially people who work at startups, it is extreme excitement because they can suddenly do so much more with so much less. I was talking to one engineer at a startup who basically said he has had so many side project ideas. And he’s been able to execute every single one of them in the past few months. And before, he would have had to employ four software engineers and pay them exorbitant salaries, but now he just has to pay a few hundred bucks to Anthropic to make all of his software dreams come true. I think if you’re an entry-level Woko, you’re feeling extreme despair about the situation. And even when you go on college campuses, People who are majoring in computer science feel uncertain about the world, which in a previous era would have been crazy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:55] \u003c/em>I mean, yeah, I was just telling you before we were recording, one of my closest friends is a software engineer now, and we were just talking about how just 10 years ago, you know, studying computer science was seen as a golden ticket, that it would lead to job security perhaps maybe that more than any other major at the time and and that that meritocracy was real, and now I feel like that’s just completely unfolding for him with AI.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:27] \u003c/em>I was interviewing a computer science professor at UC Berkeley for the story and he said they worked really hard in high school to get into the best computer science programs thinking that it was the golden ticket. They get to college and they work really hard to ace all their computer science classes so they can land that prestigious big tech job and now they’re in those jobs and The promise is not all that it was chalked up to be It’s very existentially upsetting when you sink, you know, anywhere from like four to six years of your life, honing your craft to write good code and suddenly a machine is able to do all of it. People who are trying to get their career started or entry-level workers with not that much experience, it’s a very, very scary time. Coding and software engineering jobs have been totally upended by AI, but at the same time, you now, there’s… There’s always a debate about what job is going to be next.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:31] \u003c/em>Is AI leading to mass layoffs already? Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:45] \u003c/em>I mean, I feel like every week or something, there’s news about layoffs in the tech industry. How much of that has to do with AI taking jobs?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:55] \u003c/em>That is a really good question, and I’m sorry to say, but we don’t know. We’ve heard about a lot of layoffs that was Atlassian block laying off 40% of its workforce a few weeks ago. There have been layoffs at Salesforce and Amazon and Pinterest, and they’ve all blamed it either partially or totally on AI. But I think when I speak to exports, they are very skeptical that these layoffs are actually because of AI. If we think back to the pandemic, there was massive hiring because these tech companies were adapting to this new world that we lived in, in terms of e-commerce and streaming. And they arguably over-hired quite a bit. And so it could be that these layoffs are just a product of that pandemic over- hiring, but to get in the head of a tech executive for a second. You look more, you know, techno futuristic and cool to Wall Street if you are blaming your layoffs on AI and not on the fact that you made a hiring mistake during the pandemic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:03] \u003c/em>Is AI also changing how much work people are expected to do? Like, if you can use AI to code faster, you now have more work to do?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:12] \u003c/em>Software engineers specifically, they are being expected to produce 10 times the amount of code that they were before. And I think this has introduced kind of an interesting problem for rank and file software engineers who, let’s say, are on like the oleo side of their career, they really want to understand what they are doing, but they feel like because of the expectations at their companies, they just have to. Use AI tools to generate that code, and they don’t have time to review it and understand what is going on. I think outside of the more technical domains, people using AI, there have been quite a few studies about this, but people using is increasing workload for people. And if you just think of someone generating a super bad presentation using AI or sending you a really sloppy email to go to a customer, I mean, I hear this from friends. It’s like that one colleague who is super chat GPT-pilled and uses chat GPTs for everything and doesn’t really care about the quality of their work. It’s making some people mad that they have to spend more hours correcting their colleagues. And even when they’re experimenting with tools, if companies are mandating them to experiment with their tools, it’s not like they’re being given half a day to do it. They’re expected to do it on top of their current jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:35] \u003c/em>Right, yeah. They’re very real, like, labor implications with this technology.\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:39] \u003c/em>Totally. Totally. And I think it’s really interesting because with every technological revolution we’ve kind of been promised that like, oh, we will walk less. In the 1930s, John Maynard Keynes also predicted that that technological revolutions would bring in a 15-hour work week and more leisure time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:56] \u003c/em>That sounds so nice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:58] \u003c/em>It sounds so Nice. It doesn’t seem anywhere close though. Because I mean, I think now with AI, people are walking even more than before. And they’re like, oh, where was, where did this promise go? We even walk on the weekends now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:12:16] \u003c/em>I mean, I do think some people might be hearing this and sort of thinking to themselves, like, boo-hoo, the techies are getting all existential because of this tech that in many ways they helped to create or they helped to uplift, but why do you think what is happening among tech workers right now matters to the rest of us?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rya Jetha: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:12:38] \u003c/em>I think it matters hugely, I think engineering and what’s happening in software engineering is a bellwether for what might happen in other industries. And you see the people building this technology, you’re warning about it. And so I think, even though it’s come for codos forced by virtue of their jobs, there are other careers on the chopping block that aren’t necessarily tech jobs. I mean, customer service agents. Health care. Health care, yeah, lawyers, consultants. And what we’re seeing is that Wall Street is rewarding companies for slashing their workforces. Because a Leno workforce means you have bigger profits, you can reinvest in other things. And so. If CEOs get this like, I want to shave my workforce bug by looking at other companies doing it, I think it could be pretty catastrophic for a lot of people. I mean, I talk to a lot of experts about how this is going to play out, and on the one hand, some are really down on the future. On the other hand, some experts are like, every time there has been a technological transformation or some sort of invention that improves the efficiency of engineering, more software gets built, and it gets democratized. And at a lot of companies, especially, you know… Smaller companies that cannot afford a software engineer and pay them, you know, $300,000 a year Software is the bottleneck Now it is making software cheaper But maybe you still want someone who has technical expertise to build that software for you So it could be that in the future there are way more software engineering jobs than before Maybe there is a future in which we’re gonna go through a small period of transition now and we will live in a world in which there are loads of jobs and there is no long-term disruption to the labor market. And I think that is the big question on everybody’s mind right now is that is this like other technological revolutions or is this fundamentally different.\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "What Do San Francisco’s ‘AI vs. Humans’ Billboards Say About Our Working Futures?",
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"headTitle": "What Do San Francisco’s ‘AI vs. Humans’ Billboards Say About Our Working Futures? | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>It’s no secret that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/ai\">artificial intelligence\u003c/a> has taken over the Bay Area’s advertising space. \u003ca href=\"https://www.sidewalktattoos.com/blogs/transforming-san-francisco-streets-wheatpaste-postings-for-ai-companies\">Buildings\u003c/a>, bus shelters and billboards lining Highway \u003ca href=\"https://clearchanneloutdoor.com/blog/decoded-the-psychology-behind-san-franciscos-cryptic-tech-billboards/\">101\u003c/a> have become unofficial chroniclers of the region’s AI boom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The ads are peppered with Silicon Valley speak— SaaS! SOC 2! Vibe coding! — to woo a select few potential employees, clients or investors. But for everyone who \u003cem>isn’t\u003c/em> working in tech, the billboards are an opaque window into an industry that isn’t speaking to them at all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“So much of AI right here in the Bay, but it feels like a whole separate world,” said Angélica Castro, a community health worker living in San Francisco, on her way to a class at City College of San Francisco. “When you do see AI, it’s on billboards. And they make you feel like you’re some sort of problem for being a human.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The anti-human sentiment dates back to a 2024 campaign by San Francisco-based Artisan AI \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/sf-artisan-billboards-stop-hiring-humans-19969672.php\">featuring the message\u003c/a>, “Stop hiring humans.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Company leadership did not respond to an interview request from KQED, but CEO Jaspar Carmichael-Jack said in \u003ca href=\"https://sfstandard.com/2025/04/07/the-real-person-behind-san-franciscos-hated-anti-human-ad-campaign/\">a 2025 interview\u003c/a> with the San Francisco Standard that the billboards were, in fact, deliberate ragebait, designed to spark outrage and \u003ca href=\"https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1he5ojx/ai_firms_stop_hiring_humans_billboard_campaign/\">angry online chatter\u003c/a> to boost the company’s visibility.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076632\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076632\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020226AI-Billboards-_GH_007_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020226AI-Billboards-_GH_007_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020226AI-Billboards-_GH_007_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020226AI-Billboards-_GH_007_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Cars idle at a light beneath a tech billboard at Brannan and Fourth streets on Feb. 2, 2026, in San Francisco. \u003ccite>(Gustavo Hernandez/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Artisan’s ads are now mostly gone, but the fear and anxiety they provoked have taken hold. According to a 2025 \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/world/us/americans-fear-ai-permanently-displacing-workers-reutersipsos-poll-finds-2025-08-19/\">Reuters/Ipsos poll\u003c/a>, more than 70% of adults surveyed fear that AI will be “putting too many people out of work permanently.” Recent news that Bay Area companies like \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/pinterest-layoffs-ai-cf278cf06929db07d5b1310ab7f91861\">Pinterest\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://x.com/jack/status/2027129697092731343\">Block\u003c/a> are conducting massive layoffs as they automate work with AI continues to stoke these anxieties.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Many billboards now feature ad campaigns that argue AI will empower rather than replace humans. The backlash against “Stop hiring humans” has brought us “Stop firing humans.” But shifting public perception about AI’s human impact will require more than a change in advertising, as skeptics call for worker protections and regulations to prevent large-scale displacement.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Zig and zag\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>When the billboards for Artisan AI first went up, David McGrane, advertising professor at the University of San Francisco, remembers how his students reacted. “They were enraged,” he said, adding that many of them felt frustrated seeing this message displayed so publicly when they themselves were starting to look for jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Trying to attract attention by being obnoxious — that’s been done in advertising for a century. That’s nothing new,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But the approach opened an opportunity for other companies, he said. “They saw the ragebait,” he said. “They saw they could explain that their AI works well when it works with humans. ‘If they’re zigging, we will zag.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076633\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076633\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020326AI-Billboards-_GH_010_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020326AI-Billboards-_GH_010_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020326AI-Billboards-_GH_010_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020326AI-Billboards-_GH_010_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Tech billboards line Interstate 80 South on Feb. 3, 2026, in San Francisco. \u003ccite>(Gustavo Hernandez/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>That’s exactly what Abby Connect did. The Las Vegas-based virtual receptionist service unveiled an AI-powered offering last year that takes over some administrative tasks that its human receptionists usually do. After a visit to San Francisco, CEO Nathan Strum wanted to promote it on Silicon Valley’s own turf.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We couldn’t come in with your typical message, ‘Hi, we’re an answering service, call us and set up an appointment to learn more,’” Strum said. He wanted to respond directly to the Artisan campaign, he said. “Something triggered me when I saw that — something deep down.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Soon, Abby ads that read, “Humanity: Stop firing humans,” appeared on Muni bus shelters all over the city. While Abby’s AI schedules appointments, it’s a human that still handles the more complicated calls — like someone calling their dentist about a toothache.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I love human service, and I love AI. I don’t have to be one or the other,” Strum said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Abby’s not the only one with a campaign that pushes back against automation fears. San Francisco-based firm Nooks pitched its message with a pair of billboards along 101 that read “AI won’t take your job …” and “But someone using Nooks will!”[aside postID=news_12071615 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/01/Tesla-Optimus-Getty.jpg']“We are playing into the topical, ‘How does AI change hiring and jobs?” said CEO Daniel Lee, who started Nooks with fellow Stanford University students during the pandemic. The company sells software that automates parts of a salesperson’s job — like researching clients or following up on emails.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Sales is human, and sales reps will continue selling in the future,” Lee said, and compared sales to a game of chess. “We’re playing the game alongside you, helping you think a lot less about manually making the moves and a lot more about the strategy and solving customer problems.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Linear, a San Francisco-based company, took one of the most recognizable images in Western civilization — Michelangelo’s \u003cem>The Creation of Adam\u003c/em> — and instead of God reaching towards Adam, God’s hand now approaches a cluster of tiny cursor hands. Below, a message reads, “Agents. At your command.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The company wanted to stay away from any message that suggested AI is replacing humans, COO Cristina Cordova said. Linear produces software for engineers and designers to work together on projects, and includes “agents” — virtual workers that do a lot of the coding themselves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The billboards — like Linear’s product — are not meant for everyone, Cordova said. But she’s optimistic about a future where more people can build their own software when AI can deal with complex code.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We want to position human beings as the source of intent, the decision makers, the ones who have taste and judgment,” Cordova said. Echoing her company’s Sistine Chapel-coded billboards, she said. “The human role is almost divine.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Who regulates AI workers?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>At a recent industry conference in New Delhi, OpenAI and ChatGPT chief Sam Altman \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/live/qH7thwrCluM\">told the press\u003c/a> that automation has eliminated jobs multiple times in history. But it’s also created entirely new industries, he said. “We always find new things to do, and I have no doubt we will find lots of better ones this time.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But there’s no guarantee that humans whose jobs are automated will actually find a new livelihood, said UC Los Angeles professor Ramesh Srinivasan, who studies the connections between technology and democracy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076634\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076634\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020226AI-Billboards-_GH_006_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020226AI-Billboards-_GH_006_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020226AI-Billboards-_GH_006_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020226AI-Billboards-_GH_006_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A cyclist rides along Fifth Street beneath a tech billboard on Feb. 2, 2026, in San Francisco. \u003ccite>(Gustavo Hernandez/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“Where are the jobs and what are they going to look like?” he said. Without a clear picture of how humans will add value to the work AI takes up, he said. “What’s on the chopping block is the social contract where people are compensated for their labor.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Srinivasan said the gig economy — rideshare apps like Uber and Lyft, for example — show how, without enough government oversight, tech innovations that promised to give workers more freedom actually create more precarious conditions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During California’s 2020 election, Uber and other gig companies spent \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11843123/prop-22-explained-why-gig-companies-are-spending-huge-money-on-an-unprecedented-measure\">more than $200 million\u003c/a> backing Proposition 22, a ballot measure allowing them to classify drivers as independent contractors rather than employees — exempting them from state labor protections such as minimum wage, overtime pay, and workers’ compensation. While backers of Proposition 22 promised the initiative would guarantee minimum earnings, many ride-hail drivers say their\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12057798/california-gives-uber-lyft-drivers-collective-bargaining-rights\"> real wages have slipped\u003c/a>.[aside postID=news_12072425 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/05/AP24134775174210-1020x680.jpg']“The direction tech has taken has become an amplifier of inequality, but it certainly doesn’t need to be that way,” Srinivasan said. He’s skeptical that President Donald Trump and his administration will set up guardrails to prevent widespread AI automation and points to \u003ca href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/tech-ceos-donald-trump-white-house/\">the close relationship\u003c/a> OpenAI and other tech giants have developed with the White House.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If regulators have been captured by the technology industry, then you don’t have much recourse,” he said. “The point of regulation isn’t to stop technology innovation, but to direct it in a way that supports multiple stakeholders rather than just a few investors.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California lawmakers and labor groups are pushing forward legislation in response to AI automation. Last month, state Sen. Eloise Gómez Reyes, D-San Bernardino, introduced \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260sb951\">SB 951\u003c/a>, which would require employers to notify workers and state officials at least 90 days in advance before any “technological displacement” — layoffs caused “by the introduction of an AI system or other automated technology.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The California Labor Federation — which represents over 2.3 million workers — supports the bill. “We need data on which jobs and industries are impacted by AI layoffs and hiring freezes and what tools are being used to replace workers,” said Lorena Gonzalez, president of the California Labor Federation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Whether the AI industry can keep that promised balance between human and machine in the workforce may not matter much for Bay Area residents already struggling in the existing job market.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076637\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076637\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020226AI-Billboards-_GH_005_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020226AI-Billboards-_GH_005_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020226AI-Billboards-_GH_005_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020226AI-Billboards-_GH_005_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A woman walks past a bus shelter ad reading “Humanity. Stop firing humans.” in front of a boarded storefront at Fifth and Harrison streets on Feb. 2, 2026, in San Francisco. \u003ccite>(Gustavo Hernandez/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Ian Molloy, a paraeducator at a San Francisco public school, said he sees the billboard advertisements for AI every single day. “You see them and feel this existential dread about this whole block of AI,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Molloy participated in February’s four-day \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12073306/sfusd-teachers-strike-no-end-in-sight-health-care-battle\">teacher strike\u003c/a> that included demands for family health care and wage increases. He said the topic of billboards in the city came up on the picket line.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“A lot of San Francisco is marketed towards a very small portion of San Francisco,” he said, adding that the future these billboards promise impacts everyone in the city — regardless of whether they are the target audience or not.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I wish we lived in a world where if AI took your job, you would not starve, not be homeless,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“But the reality is we don’t have a good enough social safety net.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"title": "What Do San Francisco’s ‘AI vs. Humans’ Billboards Say About Our Working Futures? | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>It’s no secret that \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/ai\">artificial intelligence\u003c/a> has taken over the Bay Area’s advertising space. \u003ca href=\"https://www.sidewalktattoos.com/blogs/transforming-san-francisco-streets-wheatpaste-postings-for-ai-companies\">Buildings\u003c/a>, bus shelters and billboards lining Highway \u003ca href=\"https://clearchanneloutdoor.com/blog/decoded-the-psychology-behind-san-franciscos-cryptic-tech-billboards/\">101\u003c/a> have become unofficial chroniclers of the region’s AI boom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The ads are peppered with Silicon Valley speak— SaaS! SOC 2! Vibe coding! — to woo a select few potential employees, clients or investors. But for everyone who \u003cem>isn’t\u003c/em> working in tech, the billboards are an opaque window into an industry that isn’t speaking to them at all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“So much of AI right here in the Bay, but it feels like a whole separate world,” said Angélica Castro, a community health worker living in San Francisco, on her way to a class at City College of San Francisco. “When you do see AI, it’s on billboards. And they make you feel like you’re some sort of problem for being a human.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The anti-human sentiment dates back to a 2024 campaign by San Francisco-based Artisan AI \u003ca href=\"https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/sf-artisan-billboards-stop-hiring-humans-19969672.php\">featuring the message\u003c/a>, “Stop hiring humans.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Company leadership did not respond to an interview request from KQED, but CEO Jaspar Carmichael-Jack said in \u003ca href=\"https://sfstandard.com/2025/04/07/the-real-person-behind-san-franciscos-hated-anti-human-ad-campaign/\">a 2025 interview\u003c/a> with the San Francisco Standard that the billboards were, in fact, deliberate ragebait, designed to spark outrage and \u003ca href=\"https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1he5ojx/ai_firms_stop_hiring_humans_billboard_campaign/\">angry online chatter\u003c/a> to boost the company’s visibility.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076632\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076632\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020226AI-Billboards-_GH_007_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020226AI-Billboards-_GH_007_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020226AI-Billboards-_GH_007_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020226AI-Billboards-_GH_007_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Cars idle at a light beneath a tech billboard at Brannan and Fourth streets on Feb. 2, 2026, in San Francisco. \u003ccite>(Gustavo Hernandez/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Artisan’s ads are now mostly gone, but the fear and anxiety they provoked have taken hold. According to a 2025 \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/world/us/americans-fear-ai-permanently-displacing-workers-reutersipsos-poll-finds-2025-08-19/\">Reuters/Ipsos poll\u003c/a>, more than 70% of adults surveyed fear that AI will be “putting too many people out of work permanently.” Recent news that Bay Area companies like \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/pinterest-layoffs-ai-cf278cf06929db07d5b1310ab7f91861\">Pinterest\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://x.com/jack/status/2027129697092731343\">Block\u003c/a> are conducting massive layoffs as they automate work with AI continues to stoke these anxieties.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Many billboards now feature ad campaigns that argue AI will empower rather than replace humans. The backlash against “Stop hiring humans” has brought us “Stop firing humans.” But shifting public perception about AI’s human impact will require more than a change in advertising, as skeptics call for worker protections and regulations to prevent large-scale displacement.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Zig and zag\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>When the billboards for Artisan AI first went up, David McGrane, advertising professor at the University of San Francisco, remembers how his students reacted. “They were enraged,” he said, adding that many of them felt frustrated seeing this message displayed so publicly when they themselves were starting to look for jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Trying to attract attention by being obnoxious — that’s been done in advertising for a century. That’s nothing new,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But the approach opened an opportunity for other companies, he said. “They saw the ragebait,” he said. “They saw they could explain that their AI works well when it works with humans. ‘If they’re zigging, we will zag.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076633\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076633\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020326AI-Billboards-_GH_010_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020326AI-Billboards-_GH_010_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020326AI-Billboards-_GH_010_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020326AI-Billboards-_GH_010_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Tech billboards line Interstate 80 South on Feb. 3, 2026, in San Francisco. \u003ccite>(Gustavo Hernandez/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>That’s exactly what Abby Connect did. The Las Vegas-based virtual receptionist service unveiled an AI-powered offering last year that takes over some administrative tasks that its human receptionists usually do. After a visit to San Francisco, CEO Nathan Strum wanted to promote it on Silicon Valley’s own turf.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We couldn’t come in with your typical message, ‘Hi, we’re an answering service, call us and set up an appointment to learn more,’” Strum said. He wanted to respond directly to the Artisan campaign, he said. “Something triggered me when I saw that — something deep down.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Soon, Abby ads that read, “Humanity: Stop firing humans,” appeared on Muni bus shelters all over the city. While Abby’s AI schedules appointments, it’s a human that still handles the more complicated calls — like someone calling their dentist about a toothache.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I love human service, and I love AI. I don’t have to be one or the other,” Strum said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Abby’s not the only one with a campaign that pushes back against automation fears. San Francisco-based firm Nooks pitched its message with a pair of billboards along 101 that read “AI won’t take your job …” and “But someone using Nooks will!”\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“We are playing into the topical, ‘How does AI change hiring and jobs?” said CEO Daniel Lee, who started Nooks with fellow Stanford University students during the pandemic. The company sells software that automates parts of a salesperson’s job — like researching clients or following up on emails.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Sales is human, and sales reps will continue selling in the future,” Lee said, and compared sales to a game of chess. “We’re playing the game alongside you, helping you think a lot less about manually making the moves and a lot more about the strategy and solving customer problems.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Linear, a San Francisco-based company, took one of the most recognizable images in Western civilization — Michelangelo’s \u003cem>The Creation of Adam\u003c/em> — and instead of God reaching towards Adam, God’s hand now approaches a cluster of tiny cursor hands. Below, a message reads, “Agents. At your command.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The company wanted to stay away from any message that suggested AI is replacing humans, COO Cristina Cordova said. Linear produces software for engineers and designers to work together on projects, and includes “agents” — virtual workers that do a lot of the coding themselves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The billboards — like Linear’s product — are not meant for everyone, Cordova said. But she’s optimistic about a future where more people can build their own software when AI can deal with complex code.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We want to position human beings as the source of intent, the decision makers, the ones who have taste and judgment,” Cordova said. Echoing her company’s Sistine Chapel-coded billboards, she said. “The human role is almost divine.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Who regulates AI workers?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>At a recent industry conference in New Delhi, OpenAI and ChatGPT chief Sam Altman \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/live/qH7thwrCluM\">told the press\u003c/a> that automation has eliminated jobs multiple times in history. But it’s also created entirely new industries, he said. “We always find new things to do, and I have no doubt we will find lots of better ones this time.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But there’s no guarantee that humans whose jobs are automated will actually find a new livelihood, said UC Los Angeles professor Ramesh Srinivasan, who studies the connections between technology and democracy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076634\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076634\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020226AI-Billboards-_GH_006_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020226AI-Billboards-_GH_006_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020226AI-Billboards-_GH_006_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020226AI-Billboards-_GH_006_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A cyclist rides along Fifth Street beneath a tech billboard on Feb. 2, 2026, in San Francisco. \u003ccite>(Gustavo Hernandez/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“Where are the jobs and what are they going to look like?” he said. Without a clear picture of how humans will add value to the work AI takes up, he said. “What’s on the chopping block is the social contract where people are compensated for their labor.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Srinivasan said the gig economy — rideshare apps like Uber and Lyft, for example — show how, without enough government oversight, tech innovations that promised to give workers more freedom actually create more precarious conditions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During California’s 2020 election, Uber and other gig companies spent \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11843123/prop-22-explained-why-gig-companies-are-spending-huge-money-on-an-unprecedented-measure\">more than $200 million\u003c/a> backing Proposition 22, a ballot measure allowing them to classify drivers as independent contractors rather than employees — exempting them from state labor protections such as minimum wage, overtime pay, and workers’ compensation. While backers of Proposition 22 promised the initiative would guarantee minimum earnings, many ride-hail drivers say their\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12057798/california-gives-uber-lyft-drivers-collective-bargaining-rights\"> real wages have slipped\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“The direction tech has taken has become an amplifier of inequality, but it certainly doesn’t need to be that way,” Srinivasan said. He’s skeptical that President Donald Trump and his administration will set up guardrails to prevent widespread AI automation and points to \u003ca href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/tech-ceos-donald-trump-white-house/\">the close relationship\u003c/a> OpenAI and other tech giants have developed with the White House.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If regulators have been captured by the technology industry, then you don’t have much recourse,” he said. “The point of regulation isn’t to stop technology innovation, but to direct it in a way that supports multiple stakeholders rather than just a few investors.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California lawmakers and labor groups are pushing forward legislation in response to AI automation. Last month, state Sen. Eloise Gómez Reyes, D-San Bernardino, introduced \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260sb951\">SB 951\u003c/a>, which would require employers to notify workers and state officials at least 90 days in advance before any “technological displacement” — layoffs caused “by the introduction of an AI system or other automated technology.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The California Labor Federation — which represents over 2.3 million workers — supports the bill. “We need data on which jobs and industries are impacted by AI layoffs and hiring freezes and what tools are being used to replace workers,” said Lorena Gonzalez, president of the California Labor Federation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Whether the AI industry can keep that promised balance between human and machine in the workforce may not matter much for Bay Area residents already struggling in the existing job market.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12076637\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12076637\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020226AI-Billboards-_GH_005_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020226AI-Billboards-_GH_005_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020226AI-Billboards-_GH_005_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/020226AI-Billboards-_GH_005_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A woman walks past a bus shelter ad reading “Humanity. Stop firing humans.” in front of a boarded storefront at Fifth and Harrison streets on Feb. 2, 2026, in San Francisco. \u003ccite>(Gustavo Hernandez/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Ian Molloy, a paraeducator at a San Francisco public school, said he sees the billboard advertisements for AI every single day. “You see them and feel this existential dread about this whole block of AI,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Molloy participated in February’s four-day \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12073306/sfusd-teachers-strike-no-end-in-sight-health-care-battle\">teacher strike\u003c/a> that included demands for family health care and wage increases. He said the topic of billboards in the city came up on the picket line.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“A lot of San Francisco is marketed towards a very small portion of San Francisco,” he said, adding that the future these billboards promise impacts everyone in the city — regardless of whether they are the target audience or not.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I wish we lived in a world where if AI took your job, you would not starve, not be homeless,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“But the reality is we don’t have a good enough social safety net.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this edition of The Bay’s monthly news roundup, we discuss the effect of the booming AI industry on San Francisco’s rental market, Rep.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Jared Huffman’s visit to his “radically redrawn” district since the passage of Prop. 50\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, and reactions to the revelation that Waymo employs remote workers in the Philippines. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Links: \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://missionlocal.org/2026/02/san-francisc-rents-ai-boom-tenants/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">AI is pushing S.F. rents higher and higher. Here’s how tenants are dealing\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> (Mission Local)\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/joegarofoli/article/jared-huffman-prop-50-21305767.php\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In his radically redrawn new district, a Marin congressman gets thrown to the wolves\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> (San Francisco Chronicle)\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://futurism.com/advanced-transport/waymo-remote-operators\">Here’s How Many Remote Operators Waymo Has Per Self-Driving Taxi\u003c/a> (Futurism)\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC3782178423&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:04] I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara, and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. And welcome to the Bay’s February News Roundup, where we dig into some of the other headlines that have piqued our interest this month. I’m joined today by producer Jessica Kariisa. What’s up, Jessica?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/strong>[00:00:21] Hey, Ericka.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:22] And our special guest this month is Izzy Bloom, reporter and producer on KQBD’s politics desk. Thank you so much for joining me, Izzy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Izzy Bloom \u003c/strong>[00:00:29] Thanks for having me\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:32] So this month, February, I feel like I’ve been thinking about just what a privilege it is to be from the Bay Area, to live in the Bay area. We had Super Bowl this month. And we also had, of course, our shining star, Alysa Liu win the gold at the Olympics. And yeah, I’ve just been thinking about that a lot, just very proud to be living here, from here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Izzy Bloom \u003c/strong>[00:00:59] Oh yeah, I loved watching her performance and she’s just like so joyful. Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:04] I feel like she just represents the Bay Area so well. The way she carries herself, her look, evens very Bay Area to me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/strong>[00:01:13] Her hair is so iconic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:15] I was walking to work this morning, actually, and I saw someone who had, like, the blonde part of Alysa Liu’s hair, and it kinda had that, like swoop at the end, and I was like, oh my god, is that her? Is it her?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/strong>[00:01:28] I feel like everyone’s like tracking her now. Like I saw a video of her like on someone’s TikTok of her coming through SFO. And then there was like a photo of her at a restaurant in Alameda. And like with that hair too, it’s like, you know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Izzy Bloom \u003c/strong>[00:01:42] Yeah, the Bay is really coming out to celebrate her too. I’ve saw that there was like an ice cream shop in Oakland that was like free ice cream for life. There’s like a radio station that temporarily renamed itself after her. I just love to see all of the love for her in the Bay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:00] Yeah, and there are also these planned celebrations of her. One will be in Oakland. We saw Mayor Barbara Lee already really celebrating her. And then I think she plans to perform in San Jose. Did you hear about that, Jessica?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/strong>[00:02:13] I did, yeah, there’s gonna be a skating event at SAP Center I think in May and she’ll be there so I’m sure there’ll be a lot of people there for that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:23] Well, what a time to live and be from the Bay Area. And I guess on that note, Jessica, you’ve got a very Bay Area story for us as well at the intersection of two very Bay area things, AI and rent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/strong>[00:02:39] Yeah, for sure. I don’t know if you guys are like me, but one of my pastimes is to definitely be on Zillow and look at apartments. Basically, once I found my apartment three years ago, I never stopped looking. But one story that I am following related to that is that San Francisco rents are up by a lot. In fact, the city has the fastest growing rent increases in the entire country. And just in the past year, rents have increased 13.3% for a one bedroom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Izzy Bloom \u003c/strong>[00:03:12] No!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/strong>[00:03:12] Right now, we’re talking about the average monthly rent for a 579 square foot apartment, which is a typical one bed, one bath, at around $3,745 a month. Another crazy statistic is that roughly 60% of San Francisco renters pay more than $3,000 a month. And yeah, as you might be able to guess, a big reason for that is the AI boom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:40] I don’t know being from here it’s not super surprising to hear rent in San Francisco is up but can you remind us maybe of the trajectory because rents actually went down by quite a bit during the pandemic, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/strong>[00:03:55] Right. Yeah, that’s a really good point. So during the pandemic, a bunch of people left the city and so rents actually went down. But then, you know, the AI industry really started to take off. And unlike previous tech booms took off in San Francisco in particular, not in Silicon Valley. And so that concentrated a lot of the demand in the city. And as we know, the city has not built enough housing. And so that’s just like already two factors that have. Made rent increases jump up. Return to office mandates have also made it so that people need to be back in the city for work. In recent months, actually in the past six months, and this is according to reporting from Mission Local and San Francisco Standard, the expectation of a lot of these major AI companies going public, meaning that a lot of people are gonna come into a lot of money very quickly, has also really push the demand up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Izzy Bloom \u003c/strong>[00:04:55] Are there particular neighborhoods or demographic groups that we know have been hardest hit by these rent increases?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/strong>[00:05:02] Yeah, according to apartment list, and this was reported on by the San Francisco Chronicle, rental prices in Mission Bay have soared 36% over the past year. Mission Bay is where OpenAI and NVIDIA have signed leases to huge companies that are in the AI industry. And also rents in South of Market, Petrero Hill, and Dogpatch are up 21%. You know, the people that are hardest pressed are definitely low-income people, definitely students. There was a student that was interviewed in this Mission Local article about rents going up. He’s a student at SF State, and he struggled just to find a room in a shared apartment, and it got so bad that he had to actually consult like a real estate agent, which is like a pretty uncommon practice, especially looking for a room in a share. But it’s just gotten to the point now where it’s like, unless you have some kind of hookup, you really need someone who’s in the know about what properties are available, and that’s what he had to do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Izzy Bloom \u003c/strong>[00:06:12] As a person who’s exclusively found Bay Area housing through Craigslist, I find it very sad to think of going to real estate agents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:19] I mean, I feel like, Jessica, with the sort of first tech boom in the city, we saw a lot of conversations about gentrification, a lot folks moving out of the city. Are we seeing something similar now with the AI boom?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/strong>[00:06:34] Yeah, definitely. Yeah, you have people moving to Daly City, people moving to the East Bay, people continuing to live with their parents. But it hasn’t decreased the demand for people wanting to move to the city. You know, someone profiled in the story in Mission Local talked about how he’ll always want to move to San Francisco and he’ll try to find his way there no matter what. And so while people are moving outside of the city, I think that won’t take away from the fact that plenty of people who aren’t in the tech industry will also keep wanting to move to San Francisco. So we’ll just see how it plays out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:07:09] Well, Jessica, thank you so much for bringing that story. I appreciate it. Thank you. And we’re gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, we’ll dig back into some of the other headlines that we’ve been following this month. Stay with us. And welcome back to the Bay’s Monthly News Roundup, where we talk about some of the other stories we’ve been following this month. Izzy Bloom, reporter and producer on KQD’s politics desk, what story have you brought today?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Izzy Bloom \u003c/strong>[00:07:42] So I’ve been following the Prop 50 redistricting fallout. And one of my favorite reads this month was by San Francisco Chronicle’s senior political writer, Joe Garofoli. He’s one of our recurring guests on Political Breakdown. And he went with Marin Congressman Jared Huffman on a little road trip up to the rural North State, what he called the MAGA-iest corner of California, just to check out Huffman’s newly-rejoned district after voters approved Proposition 50 in November.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:08:11] And Izzy, Jared Huffman’s district has changed as a result of Prop 50, right? Can you remind us again what that did and I guess how this story fits into that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Izzy Bloom \u003c/strong>[00:08:23] Yeah, so Prop 50, that was a ballot measure to give Democrats in California a pretty good chance of flipping five congressional seats in this year’s midterm elections. And it was in response to President Trump urging states like Texas to adopt new gerrymandered maps to give Republicans a leg up. And I think this story is just like an interesting example of the consequences of this ballot measure and how differently these regions are going to look and what means for the voters. Can you remind us how much his district changed? Yeah, so Huffman’s district, District 2, used to go from just north of the Golden Gate Bridge through Marin, up through Eureka and Arcata, and actually touches the Oregon border. His new congressional map stretches his district east to the Nevada border, and it draws in Modoc, Shasta, and Siskiyou counties. Some of those counties were previously represented by Republican Representative Doug LaMalfa. He was the fourth generation rice farmer who represented rural NorCal for over a decade in Congress. And then he died pretty suddenly early January from a heart attack during emergency surgery. Huffman’s new district is known for mega churches and a lot of agriculture and ranchers. It’s known for the secession movement to create a state of Jefferson separate from California and 62% of it supported Newsom’s recall in 2021.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:50] That’s so interesting because he now represents, like, it seems like two vastly different corners of California. I’m curious just how that went for him. What did he go there to do and what was that experience like talking with new members of his district?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Izzy Bloom \u003c/strong>[00:10:07] Yeah, it sounds like he went and met with the local Indivisible Chapter. That’s a progressive grassroots organization that is fighting the rise of authoritarianism in the US. And he met with a Native American tribe, the Pitt River Rancheria Tribal Council in Shasta County. And you know, Huffman really has to combat this perception as a liberal elite from Marin who’s out of touch with the rural North State residents. He promised not to push culture war issues. And in the article, he talks about really avoiding the W word, which is the wolves, which is a really big issue up there because the wolves have been killing a lot of cattle. And ranchers want gray wolves removed from the endangered species list so they can hunt them. But Huffman, he’s on the House Committee on Natural Resources. He’s a defender of the Endangered Species Act. So I think that could be a tough needle for him to thread.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/strong>[00:11:05] I mean, earlier you mentioned this is like the MAGA-iest corner of the state, and as a Democrat showing up there, did he get any pushback from people?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Izzy Bloom \u003c/strong>[00:11:16] It sounds like for the most part, the people up in the North State were just sort of like happy to hear that he’s making the drive out there. They don’t really get visited very often and like to hear that he was, you know, interested in hearing about the issues that matter to them up there. One thing that is interesting is that, you know Huffman doesn’t really need these voters in the election this fall. In some ways, it. Sounds like he went up there in good faith, but this district was gerrymandered in his favor, so he’s not obligated to, I think, to win the district.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:55] Izzy, thank you so much for bringing that story. Appreciate it. And last but not least, we’re gonna dig into the story that I’ve been following this month. In testimony before the US Senate earlier this month, Waymo, the self-driving vehicle company, revealed that they use remote workers in the Philippines to assist its self- driving cars, meaning the self driving cars that you see driving around San Francisco are sometimes actually getting input and guidance from someone. Many many many miles away, raising a lot of concerns and obviously drawing a lot of scrutiny among lawmakers and folks in the Bay Area about the company’s use of cheap labor to do something as important as guiding vehicles through road safety in our communities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/strong>[00:12:52] I mean, it just, I don’t know. It makes me think about the fact that anytime I call customer service, I’m pretty much talking to someone very, very far away. Why are senators so concerned about that when it comes to Waymo’s as opposed to like other forms of customer service?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:10] Yeah, so this information came out of a Senate committee hearing on commerce, science, and transportation. The meeting was called Hit the Road Mac, the future of self-driving cars. This hearing was actually really focused on the need for national safety standards around autonomous vehicles. Witnesses included. The VP of Vehicle Engineering at Tesla, and Waymo’s Chief Safety Officer, Mauricio Peña. And Senator Ed Markey, who’s a Democrat from Massachusetts, raised a ton of concerns.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sen. Ed Markey \u003c/strong>[00:13:49] Are some of these operators located outside the United States?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mauricio Peña \u003c/strong>[00:13:54] Yeah, some are located abroad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sen. Ed Markey \u003c/strong>[00:13:55] Yeah, and so for me, that’s fairly shocking.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:59] He called this completely unacceptable. He pointed out the sort of safety and cybersecurity implications of having people overseas influencing American vehicles. And I actually have this cut from him addressing specifically these concerns around jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sen. Ed Markey \u003c/strong>[00:14:21] Let’s not forget Waymo is trying to replace the jobs of hardworking taxi and ride share drivers and now you’re saying that of the human beings, the human jobs that remain in the system, you’re shipping those jobs overseas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:14:41] I feel like this story and Senator Markey are really just pointing out and highlighting this sort of continued use of cheap foreign labor by American tech companies as simultaneously all these tech companies are laying people off here in the U.S. And especially the Bay Area, which I feel every week there’s a new story about tech layoffs here. Has Waymo responded to these criticisms? Waymo has been pretty adamant that these remote workers are not in fact controlling or steering or braking or accelerating on any of these cars. They sort of describe it more as phoning a friend.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mauricio Peña \u003c/strong>[00:15:22] Senator, they provide guidance. They do not remotely drive the vehicles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:15:27] Basically, when a Waymo encounters a situation on the road, the autonomous driver can reach out to what are called human fleet response agents. These folks abroad are basically providing the car with additional information, helping it sort of contextualize its environment to kind of help it figure out what to do, basically. Waymo was not able to share with senators in this hearing. How many remote assistant agents they have, but they did reveal later that they have about 70 of them on duty worldwide at any given time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/strong>[00:16:05] I mean, we’re talking about a Senate hearing and concerns from senators, but what about the public? Have people brought up or said anything about this experience with people helping them from very far away?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:16:20] Yeah, I’ve actually been very amused by, like, just the response to this story online. Um, there’s actually a lot of folks from the Filipino community, I feel like, on Instagram have been posting videos, um, of themselves, like in the Waymo’s, speaking in Tagalog, to like, no one basically, just asking their, uh, Waymoes, uh to drive safely and to actually like, hurry up a little bit because they’re running late.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Instagram video \u003c/strong>[00:16:48] Hello po, kung sin naman po nagdadrive itong car na to, um, pas safe drive naman po…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:16:58] So I feel like there’s been this mix of sort of like, eye roll for this tech company that, you know, as I mentioned is using cheap foreign labor and also a little bit of humor and response as well. And that is it for my story and the Bay’s February Monthly News Roundup. Thank you so much, Jessica Kariisa, producer, for joining me. Thank you, Ericka. And Izzy Bloom, reporter and producer on KQED’s Politics Desk. Thank you for joining as well, Izzy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Izzy Bloom \u003c/strong>[00:17:31] Oh, my pleasure.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this edition of The Bay’s monthly news roundup, we discuss the effect of the booming AI industry on San Francisco’s rental market, Rep.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Jared Huffman’s visit to his “radically redrawn” district since the passage of Prop. 50\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, and reactions to the revelation that Waymo employs remote workers in the Philippines. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Links: \u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://missionlocal.org/2026/02/san-francisc-rents-ai-boom-tenants/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">AI is pushing S.F. rents higher and higher. Here’s how tenants are dealing\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> (Mission Local)\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/joegarofoli/article/jared-huffman-prop-50-21305767.php\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In his radically redrawn new district, a Marin congressman gets thrown to the wolves\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> (San Francisco Chronicle)\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://futurism.com/advanced-transport/waymo-remote-operators\">Here’s How Many Remote Operators Waymo Has Per Self-Driving Taxi\u003c/a> (Futurism)\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC3782178423&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:04] I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara, and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. And welcome to the Bay’s February News Roundup, where we dig into some of the other headlines that have piqued our interest this month. I’m joined today by producer Jessica Kariisa. What’s up, Jessica?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/strong>[00:00:21] Hey, Ericka.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:22] And our special guest this month is Izzy Bloom, reporter and producer on KQBD’s politics desk. Thank you so much for joining me, Izzy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Izzy Bloom \u003c/strong>[00:00:29] Thanks for having me\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:00:32] So this month, February, I feel like I’ve been thinking about just what a privilege it is to be from the Bay Area, to live in the Bay area. We had Super Bowl this month. And we also had, of course, our shining star, Alysa Liu win the gold at the Olympics. And yeah, I’ve just been thinking about that a lot, just very proud to be living here, from here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Izzy Bloom \u003c/strong>[00:00:59] Oh yeah, I loved watching her performance and she’s just like so joyful. Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:04] I feel like she just represents the Bay Area so well. The way she carries herself, her look, evens very Bay Area to me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/strong>[00:01:13] Her hair is so iconic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:01:15] I was walking to work this morning, actually, and I saw someone who had, like, the blonde part of Alysa Liu’s hair, and it kinda had that, like swoop at the end, and I was like, oh my god, is that her? Is it her?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/strong>[00:01:28] I feel like everyone’s like tracking her now. Like I saw a video of her like on someone’s TikTok of her coming through SFO. And then there was like a photo of her at a restaurant in Alameda. And like with that hair too, it’s like, you know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Izzy Bloom \u003c/strong>[00:01:42] Yeah, the Bay is really coming out to celebrate her too. I’ve saw that there was like an ice cream shop in Oakland that was like free ice cream for life. There’s like a radio station that temporarily renamed itself after her. I just love to see all of the love for her in the Bay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:00] Yeah, and there are also these planned celebrations of her. One will be in Oakland. We saw Mayor Barbara Lee already really celebrating her. And then I think she plans to perform in San Jose. Did you hear about that, Jessica?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/strong>[00:02:13] I did, yeah, there’s gonna be a skating event at SAP Center I think in May and she’ll be there so I’m sure there’ll be a lot of people there for that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:02:23] Well, what a time to live and be from the Bay Area. And I guess on that note, Jessica, you’ve got a very Bay Area story for us as well at the intersection of two very Bay area things, AI and rent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/strong>[00:02:39] Yeah, for sure. I don’t know if you guys are like me, but one of my pastimes is to definitely be on Zillow and look at apartments. Basically, once I found my apartment three years ago, I never stopped looking. But one story that I am following related to that is that San Francisco rents are up by a lot. In fact, the city has the fastest growing rent increases in the entire country. And just in the past year, rents have increased 13.3% for a one bedroom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Izzy Bloom \u003c/strong>[00:03:12] No!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/strong>[00:03:12] Right now, we’re talking about the average monthly rent for a 579 square foot apartment, which is a typical one bed, one bath, at around $3,745 a month. Another crazy statistic is that roughly 60% of San Francisco renters pay more than $3,000 a month. And yeah, as you might be able to guess, a big reason for that is the AI boom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:03:40] I don’t know being from here it’s not super surprising to hear rent in San Francisco is up but can you remind us maybe of the trajectory because rents actually went down by quite a bit during the pandemic, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/strong>[00:03:55] Right. Yeah, that’s a really good point. So during the pandemic, a bunch of people left the city and so rents actually went down. But then, you know, the AI industry really started to take off. And unlike previous tech booms took off in San Francisco in particular, not in Silicon Valley. And so that concentrated a lot of the demand in the city. And as we know, the city has not built enough housing. And so that’s just like already two factors that have. Made rent increases jump up. Return to office mandates have also made it so that people need to be back in the city for work. In recent months, actually in the past six months, and this is according to reporting from Mission Local and San Francisco Standard, the expectation of a lot of these major AI companies going public, meaning that a lot of people are gonna come into a lot of money very quickly, has also really push the demand up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Izzy Bloom \u003c/strong>[00:04:55] Are there particular neighborhoods or demographic groups that we know have been hardest hit by these rent increases?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/strong>[00:05:02] Yeah, according to apartment list, and this was reported on by the San Francisco Chronicle, rental prices in Mission Bay have soared 36% over the past year. Mission Bay is where OpenAI and NVIDIA have signed leases to huge companies that are in the AI industry. And also rents in South of Market, Petrero Hill, and Dogpatch are up 21%. You know, the people that are hardest pressed are definitely low-income people, definitely students. There was a student that was interviewed in this Mission Local article about rents going up. He’s a student at SF State, and he struggled just to find a room in a shared apartment, and it got so bad that he had to actually consult like a real estate agent, which is like a pretty uncommon practice, especially looking for a room in a share. But it’s just gotten to the point now where it’s like, unless you have some kind of hookup, you really need someone who’s in the know about what properties are available, and that’s what he had to do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Izzy Bloom \u003c/strong>[00:06:12] As a person who’s exclusively found Bay Area housing through Craigslist, I find it very sad to think of going to real estate agents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:06:19] I mean, I feel like, Jessica, with the sort of first tech boom in the city, we saw a lot of conversations about gentrification, a lot folks moving out of the city. Are we seeing something similar now with the AI boom?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/strong>[00:06:34] Yeah, definitely. Yeah, you have people moving to Daly City, people moving to the East Bay, people continuing to live with their parents. But it hasn’t decreased the demand for people wanting to move to the city. You know, someone profiled in the story in Mission Local talked about how he’ll always want to move to San Francisco and he’ll try to find his way there no matter what. And so while people are moving outside of the city, I think that won’t take away from the fact that plenty of people who aren’t in the tech industry will also keep wanting to move to San Francisco. So we’ll just see how it plays out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:07:09] Well, Jessica, thank you so much for bringing that story. I appreciate it. Thank you. And we’re gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, we’ll dig back into some of the other headlines that we’ve been following this month. Stay with us. And welcome back to the Bay’s Monthly News Roundup, where we talk about some of the other stories we’ve been following this month. Izzy Bloom, reporter and producer on KQD’s politics desk, what story have you brought today?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Izzy Bloom \u003c/strong>[00:07:42] So I’ve been following the Prop 50 redistricting fallout. And one of my favorite reads this month was by San Francisco Chronicle’s senior political writer, Joe Garofoli. He’s one of our recurring guests on Political Breakdown. And he went with Marin Congressman Jared Huffman on a little road trip up to the rural North State, what he called the MAGA-iest corner of California, just to check out Huffman’s newly-rejoned district after voters approved Proposition 50 in November.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:08:11] And Izzy, Jared Huffman’s district has changed as a result of Prop 50, right? Can you remind us again what that did and I guess how this story fits into that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Izzy Bloom \u003c/strong>[00:08:23] Yeah, so Prop 50, that was a ballot measure to give Democrats in California a pretty good chance of flipping five congressional seats in this year’s midterm elections. And it was in response to President Trump urging states like Texas to adopt new gerrymandered maps to give Republicans a leg up. And I think this story is just like an interesting example of the consequences of this ballot measure and how differently these regions are going to look and what means for the voters. Can you remind us how much his district changed? Yeah, so Huffman’s district, District 2, used to go from just north of the Golden Gate Bridge through Marin, up through Eureka and Arcata, and actually touches the Oregon border. His new congressional map stretches his district east to the Nevada border, and it draws in Modoc, Shasta, and Siskiyou counties. Some of those counties were previously represented by Republican Representative Doug LaMalfa. He was the fourth generation rice farmer who represented rural NorCal for over a decade in Congress. And then he died pretty suddenly early January from a heart attack during emergency surgery. Huffman’s new district is known for mega churches and a lot of agriculture and ranchers. It’s known for the secession movement to create a state of Jefferson separate from California and 62% of it supported Newsom’s recall in 2021.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:09:50] That’s so interesting because he now represents, like, it seems like two vastly different corners of California. I’m curious just how that went for him. What did he go there to do and what was that experience like talking with new members of his district?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Izzy Bloom \u003c/strong>[00:10:07] Yeah, it sounds like he went and met with the local Indivisible Chapter. That’s a progressive grassroots organization that is fighting the rise of authoritarianism in the US. And he met with a Native American tribe, the Pitt River Rancheria Tribal Council in Shasta County. And you know, Huffman really has to combat this perception as a liberal elite from Marin who’s out of touch with the rural North State residents. He promised not to push culture war issues. And in the article, he talks about really avoiding the W word, which is the wolves, which is a really big issue up there because the wolves have been killing a lot of cattle. And ranchers want gray wolves removed from the endangered species list so they can hunt them. But Huffman, he’s on the House Committee on Natural Resources. He’s a defender of the Endangered Species Act. So I think that could be a tough needle for him to thread.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/strong>[00:11:05] I mean, earlier you mentioned this is like the MAGA-iest corner of the state, and as a Democrat showing up there, did he get any pushback from people?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Izzy Bloom \u003c/strong>[00:11:16] It sounds like for the most part, the people up in the North State were just sort of like happy to hear that he’s making the drive out there. They don’t really get visited very often and like to hear that he was, you know, interested in hearing about the issues that matter to them up there. One thing that is interesting is that, you know Huffman doesn’t really need these voters in the election this fall. In some ways, it. Sounds like he went up there in good faith, but this district was gerrymandered in his favor, so he’s not obligated to, I think, to win the district.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:11:55] Izzy, thank you so much for bringing that story. Appreciate it. And last but not least, we’re gonna dig into the story that I’ve been following this month. In testimony before the US Senate earlier this month, Waymo, the self-driving vehicle company, revealed that they use remote workers in the Philippines to assist its self- driving cars, meaning the self driving cars that you see driving around San Francisco are sometimes actually getting input and guidance from someone. Many many many miles away, raising a lot of concerns and obviously drawing a lot of scrutiny among lawmakers and folks in the Bay Area about the company’s use of cheap labor to do something as important as guiding vehicles through road safety in our communities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/strong>[00:12:52] I mean, it just, I don’t know. It makes me think about the fact that anytime I call customer service, I’m pretty much talking to someone very, very far away. Why are senators so concerned about that when it comes to Waymo’s as opposed to like other forms of customer service?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:10] Yeah, so this information came out of a Senate committee hearing on commerce, science, and transportation. The meeting was called Hit the Road Mac, the future of self-driving cars. This hearing was actually really focused on the need for national safety standards around autonomous vehicles. Witnesses included. The VP of Vehicle Engineering at Tesla, and Waymo’s Chief Safety Officer, Mauricio Peña. And Senator Ed Markey, who’s a Democrat from Massachusetts, raised a ton of concerns.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sen. Ed Markey \u003c/strong>[00:13:49] Are some of these operators located outside the United States?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mauricio Peña \u003c/strong>[00:13:54] Yeah, some are located abroad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sen. Ed Markey \u003c/strong>[00:13:55] Yeah, and so for me, that’s fairly shocking.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:13:59] He called this completely unacceptable. He pointed out the sort of safety and cybersecurity implications of having people overseas influencing American vehicles. And I actually have this cut from him addressing specifically these concerns around jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sen. Ed Markey \u003c/strong>[00:14:21] Let’s not forget Waymo is trying to replace the jobs of hardworking taxi and ride share drivers and now you’re saying that of the human beings, the human jobs that remain in the system, you’re shipping those jobs overseas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:14:41] I feel like this story and Senator Markey are really just pointing out and highlighting this sort of continued use of cheap foreign labor by American tech companies as simultaneously all these tech companies are laying people off here in the U.S. And especially the Bay Area, which I feel every week there’s a new story about tech layoffs here. Has Waymo responded to these criticisms? Waymo has been pretty adamant that these remote workers are not in fact controlling or steering or braking or accelerating on any of these cars. They sort of describe it more as phoning a friend.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mauricio Peña \u003c/strong>[00:15:22] Senator, they provide guidance. They do not remotely drive the vehicles.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:15:27] Basically, when a Waymo encounters a situation on the road, the autonomous driver can reach out to what are called human fleet response agents. These folks abroad are basically providing the car with additional information, helping it sort of contextualize its environment to kind of help it figure out what to do, basically. Waymo was not able to share with senators in this hearing. How many remote assistant agents they have, but they did reveal later that they have about 70 of them on duty worldwide at any given time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jessica Kariisa \u003c/strong>[00:16:05] I mean, we’re talking about a Senate hearing and concerns from senators, but what about the public? Have people brought up or said anything about this experience with people helping them from very far away?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:16:20] Yeah, I’ve actually been very amused by, like, just the response to this story online. Um, there’s actually a lot of folks from the Filipino community, I feel like, on Instagram have been posting videos, um, of themselves, like in the Waymo’s, speaking in Tagalog, to like, no one basically, just asking their, uh, Waymoes, uh to drive safely and to actually like, hurry up a little bit because they’re running late.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Instagram video \u003c/strong>[00:16:48] Hello po, kung sin naman po nagdadrive itong car na to, um, pas safe drive naman po…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra \u003c/strong>[00:16:58] So I feel like there’s been this mix of sort of like, eye roll for this tech company that, you know, as I mentioned is using cheap foreign labor and also a little bit of humor and response as well. And that is it for my story and the Bay’s February Monthly News Roundup. Thank you so much, Jessica Kariisa, producer, for joining me. Thank you, Ericka. And Izzy Bloom, reporter and producer on KQED’s Politics Desk. Thank you for joining as well, Izzy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In honor of Valentine’s Day, we’re bringing you an episode about love. We start with TikTok creator Jojo Manzo, who turned his late-night doomscrolling into a matchmaking experiment when he invited thousands of strangers to flirt in his comment section. Then we talk to Maria Avgitidis, a third-generation matchmaker, about why friction, community, and a little discomfort might actually be the point of dating. And finally, we get to the physical … or, at least, geographical. When you find someone you care about, do you share your location with them? Is it intimacy, convenience, surveillance or all three? We explore what it looks like to find human connection in a deeply digital world.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC8381904068\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guests:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.matchmakermaria.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Maria Avgitidis Pyrgiotakis\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, Matchmaker and CEO of Agapematch\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@thisshouldbeatrend\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jojo Manzo\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, Musician and content creator\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Friends of Close All Tabs: Mandy Seiner and Jackson Maxwell, Anna Iovine, Tanya Chen, Amanda Silberling, Harriet Weber, and Taj Weaver\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Further Reading/Listening:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/03/technology/ai-dating-apps.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You Don’t Need to Swipe Right. A.I. Is Transforming Dating Apps\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Eli Tan, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The New York Times\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/25/podcasts/location-sharing-relationships.html\">To Share or Not to Share? How Location Sharing Is Changing Our Relationships\u003c/a> — \u003ci>Modern Love Podcast\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/perfection-without-connection-how-ai-is-becoming-digital-wingman-2025-10-04/\">‘Perfection without the connection’: How AI is becoming a digital wingman\u003c/a> — Hani Richter, \u003ci>Reuters\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.theatlantic.com/family/2025/09/ai-matchmaking-online-dating/684386/\">The Doomed Dream of an AI Matchmaker\u003c/a> — Faith Hill, \u003ci>The Atlantic\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.matchmakermaria.com/book\">Ask A Matchmaker: Matchmaker Maria’s No Nonsense Guide to Finding Love\u003c/a> — Maria Avgitidis, \u003ci>Matchmaker Maria\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.bustle.com/articles/157064-is-u-hauling-real-heres-whats-behind-the-lesbian-stereotype\">Is U-Hauling Real? Here’s What’s Behind The Lesbian Stereotype \u003c/a>— Lea Rose Emery, \u003ci>Bustle\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.pagingdrlesbian.com/p/whats-the-deal-with-u-haul-lesbians\">What’s The Deal With U-Haul Lesbians?\u003c/a> — Kira Deshler,\u003ci> Paging Dr. Lesbian\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Follow us on\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\"> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Instagram\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@closealltabs\"> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">TikTok\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cb>Morgan Sung, Host: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Look, covering what we cover on this show, things right now can feel pretty bleak — surveillance culture, environmental injustice, the erosion of constitutional rights, the way algorithms silo and divide us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At a time when it feels like the machines are taking over, we thought we could spend an episode reminding all of you of what makes us most human: Love. And what better time to do that than a commercialized holiday designed to sell mass-produced chocolate? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Welcome to our Valentine’s Day episode! Today, we have a little heart shaped box of chocolates for you: three stories about how we connect as humans … even in this modern digital hellscape.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Whether it’s through a human matchmaker, in a sea of AI-powered dating apps, or stumbling across a comment thread of hot singles in your area. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Or, literally finding the one and that involves unpacking a very thorny relationship debate: Do you share your location with your partner? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Let’s get into our first story today. Love ‘em or hate ‘em, dating apps have been part of the romance ecosystem for over a decade. And they can be exhausting. But, we live so much of our lives online these days, and it’s not easy to meet someone in real life either. So some people have taken it upon themselves to play digital matchmaker. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Let’s open up a new tab: Doom scroll speed date. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So picture this: It’s late at night, you’re doomscrolling. Just consuming content until your brain shuts down and you can finally fall asleep. And then you come across a guy who also appears to be laying in bed, in the dark, in the same situation as you. And he starts talking directly to you, through the screen. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Audio clip from the TikTok account @thisshouldbeatrend\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Oh, hi. It appears as though we’re both doom scrolling at the same time right now. Uh, how, how’s it going? What the hell’s going on on your feed right now?\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These are doomscroll dates. It’s like a meet-cute, in the middle of the night when neither person should be awake. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Audio clip from the TikTok account @thisshouldbeatrend\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Actually, you know what? Don’t answer that. Um, it’s getting late. You should probably go to bed and I should probably go to bed, so it was cool bumping into you. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Joseph Manzo, also known as Jojo Manzo, also known by his TikTok handle, ThisShouldBeATrend, started his TikTok account as marketing research for his job. Then last year, on a whim, Jojo started a series where he pretended to take viewers on dates in the middle of a doom scrolling session.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">People started really responding to his series. And Jojo realized that he could use his platform to play matchmaker. So he put together what he calls the doomscroll speed date. I’ll let Jojo tell the story. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jojo Manzo, Guest:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So I noticed how many people in the comment sections of the doom scroll date videos that I was putting out. I, I feel like everyone’s just like craving connection, you know? Speaking for myself, I love being the matchmaker. Like I, I really want to put a bunch of people in a room just to see what happens and hope that some of them fall in love or some of them like connect in some way, shape, or form.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So Jojo posted a video asking his audience to respond with comments, and laid out some instructions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jojo Manzo:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So, basically the ground rules of this, uh, doom scroll, speed date, is what I called it, is basically post a photo of yourself or a meme that you really like, and then your age and where you’re from. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Once people did that. Other users were encouraged to leave a reply underneath with a photo of themselves or another meme that might match the energy, and whoever left the original comment, was the only person that is allowed to reach out to someone who replied to them. So that way it kind of respected boundaries on everyone’s parts.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The comments poured in, gym selfies, polished headshots, goofy unposed photos that you probably wouldn’t find on a typical dating app profile and lots of memes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jojo Manzo:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This user said Dallas, Texas with a meme of a very nefarious cartoon just kind of sticking out their tongue, all like, and then someone said, ain’t too far drive for me with the eye emojis. But as this user, so absolutely put, “I don’t have a meme, but I did see this cool apple in the store the other day. This is flirting, right? Why does this feel like a better dating opportunity than hinge? “\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Someone decided to post a photo of them on Halloween, dressed as Benjamin Franklin, and yes, this is a woman dressed as Benjamin Franklin, uh, with a 0.5 camera selfie, and also put some of their music taste \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jojo’s doom scroll speed date video got thousands of comments overnight. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jojo Manzo:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I think that post resonated with people so well is because I was almost selling them on a pitch to be like. H Hinge and Bumble aren’t working, but TikTok might work Dating app algorithms are very much like Instagram, like everyone really curates their profiles, whereas I feel like people on TikTok are. A lot more comfortable in being careless. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That kind of just develops this opportunity for people to not feel like there’s so much pressure. like it is a casual interaction. You either connect or you don’t \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: While a lot of people \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">did\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> put themselves out there in the comments, they weren’t getting many replies … \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jojo Manzo:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> All the comments that were coming in were largely women:, \u003c/span>\u003cb>“\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The comments are full of baddies, but I’m not seeing a male in New York City.” The straight men were not making moves. I actually left a reply to somebody who had asked, “Where are all the men at?” And I think one of my comments verbatim was, “Yo! Respectfully, y’all aren’t flirting enough.” And that comment got lit up with likes and then a lot of replies started coming in for the people who already posted.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jojo Manzo:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> “38-year-old anime nerd in Columbus, Ohio. Forgive the gym photo, don’t have a lot of full body pictures.” And it’s, it’s a dude in the gym, \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, that this person sent high with five eyes and a classic smiley face really, really cheesing. Aw, she’s so cute. With a little cardigan on and the glasses. Aw, I hope they work out. I hope they get to meet up.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I did not follow up with anyone. Quite frankly, there are thousands of comments on that post that I would have to, I would have to doom scroll the comment section that that’s how many there are and that’s how much time it would take. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But I think some of the, these ones, like I just mentioned, might have a little bit of merit and I’ll need to reach out to them on the side. Just be like, so, uh, you guys meet up yet? and then there were a lot of, there was actually a lot of requests for me to do this again, but to do it by city, which I haven’t done yet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I really do think this experiment was a success. I mean, my head canon is that there’s at least one potential couple now, you know, I, I really do feel like. This was a good exercise for people to put themselves out there and, um, for either starting the conversation or to drive the conversation. Um, and man, I really, really hope that I can be invited to somebody’s wedding someday\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jojo Manzo tapped into people’s frustration with dating apps and swipe fatigue and tried to DIY a solution. Like he said, he likes playing matchmaker. Tech companies also say they have a solution, with the hottest feature in dating apps right now: AI matchmakers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But will they actually help? Well, let’s open a new tab. What are AI matchmakers missing?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To be clear, these aren’t AI companions that would replace human dates. These are AI-powered features to help users connect with dates. Like one called Amata, that talks to users, and then describes them to potential matches. Or Rizz, the digital wingman that analyzes screenshots of messages, and generates a quippy, conversation-sparking response. Sliding into DMs? You can outsource your flirting! There are now dozens of apps that offer AI-powered relationship advice. A dating coach in your pocket, available 24/7. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All of these features are designed to alleviate swipe fatigue: the mental, emotional, and physical burnout of modern dating. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But I wanted to hear from a human matchmaker about why she’s so suspicious of integrating AI features into dating apps, and what it really takes to find a match. What’s the secret sauce to meeting new people?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Matchmaker Maria.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Avgitidis, Guest:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I am Maria Avgitidis better known as Matchmaker Maria, and I am the founder of Agape Match, which is a matchmaking service based out of New York City. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She’s also an author, and the host of the podcast Ask A Matchmaker. Maria comes from a long line of matchmakers. Before her, her grandmother, her great grandmother, and her great great grandmother were matchmakers in Greece. These previous generations lived through times of famine and political unrest. So back then, matchmaking was really more about building alliances between families. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Maria Avgitidis:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And so when I say alliance, you have to think about bartering and trade. And you know, if my family makes milk and your family makes glass bottles, that’s a pretty good match. So these are the things that they were thinking about.They weren’t thinking about are these two people in love? They were thinking about are these families gonna get on. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, when my grandmother was matchmaking, first of all, there’s no computers, let alone the internet, let alone mobile phones where we would swipe on potential soulmates while sitting on the couch. And a lot of my clientele now in 2026 and didn’t just start now, it started, I wanna say 11 years ago. In 2015 we started getting the new audience of people who just felt a lot of dating fatigue.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it, they didn’t have problem going on dates, you know, they could open up an app, but if it takes too long to go from online to offline, you can feel a bit of dating fatigue. But in 2026 what I see the biggest difference in singles is how the algorithm and also how an AI can reaffirm things that might not necessarily be the right thing for us. And I think about that a lot because, there is a rise in AI in dating.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah. I’m so glad you brought up AI because that’s what we’re here to talk about today. the biggest trend in, in dating app tech right now is so-called AI matchmaking. Everyone’s trying to get their LLMs to be the next cupid. Um, a lot of them use AI chatbots to basically ask users questions and then match them with other users based on their answers so that they don’t have to build a profile, they don’t have to swipe, removing a lot of that friction, you know, what do you make of this trend?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Avgitidis:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Um, first of all, I resent the fact that it’s called matchmaker. just because I’m maybe a generational matchmaker. I know what it takes to be a professional matchmaker. It’s so much about community building. At the end of the day, you know, matchmaking is considered one of the oldest professions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It ranks up there with a midwife and uh, and sex work and, The reason why matchmaking has always existed is because dating is a communal activity. You know, don’t look at yourself right now if you are single, laying on the couch, swiping while an episode of Friends or Big Bang Theory playing in the background.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s not what dating, that’s not what courtship is supposed to be like. It’s supposed to be your parents meddling. It’s supposed to be your cousin setting up with their friends. It’s your friends setting you up with their friends and you meeting their coworkers at a barbecue. Like dating is a communal effort, ’cause we were not meant to date alone. Humans have this instinct to connect. So that’s the first part, but now what is it exactly doing? And it goes back to my suspicions of, you know, what algorithms and AI can do. I’m not saying that they’re not helpful in certain elements of our jobs, \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, I just actually put the privacy policy of a social media site on my ChatGPT to be like, what am I, what’s wrong with it? You know, and like, let me know so I don’t have to read the whole privacy policy. So I’m not saying that there’s not some really great benefits with having ai, um, help us, but I do feel like people have a very poor perception of who they actually are.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think when you talk to an AI, you wanna say really good things about yourself. You’re not necessarily being tasked to look at yourself critically and. Because the AI is built to reaffirm you, even if you’re making a very bad decision. So now take it to dating, what questions are these apps asking to really get to know you, to really understand what kind of partner you will be? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think a chat bot can do a really great job at making some assumptions on your horoscope or numerology or your Enneagram because a lot of content in on the internet already exists, where it pulls from. I wonder what kind of content it would pull from to help someone who is experiencing extreme loneliness. And then it goes back to the end of who is this for? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No one’s building an AI matchmaking company from the goodness of their heart. There’s probably gonna be investors, there’s probably gonna be shareholders. There’s probably a company that wants to buy it and someone’s gonna profit. And I’m not saying that a dating company or a dating service provider should not get paid for the work that they do. They should absolutely get paid. I’ll be the first to say it. Hello!\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But I, as a human matchmaker, have a motivation to get my client into a relationship as quickly as possible, because as a human being, I don’t wanna talk to my clients longer than I have to. Right? Like, I really want them in relationships because I want them to leave me alone. That’s not, that’s an optimistic way of looking at it. Right? I wanna be good at my job. I wanna be a good matchmaker. Right? But dating companies, they don’t have that, they can tell us, oh, you know, it’s not just about shareholders.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like, we wanna help people fall in love. Okay. But you, you, you’re not creating apps that are providing that safe environment. Women are looking for. And you are showing men, women that don’t wanna date them, so they’re having a terrible dating experience and all this because they get to pay every month their subscription to make the shareholders happy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> a lot of these dating apps or a lot of these, I, I know you hate the term, but that’s what they’re calling themselves, AI matchmakers, um, report to. Yeah. Just take that kind of friction out of, swiping,out of like having to sift through all these new people and all these new profiles. I mean, Facebook’s dating assistant for example, it works by basically telling the chat bot, uh, a bunch of unique traits that you’re looking for in a partner and they will present you with matches. And the example that meta itself used was find me a Brooklyn girl in tech and.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The chatbot will present profiles of Brooklyn Girls in Tech. I, it’s not dissimilar to what you do, but also, you know, it’s, it seems to be the final evolution of everything that people have been complaining about when it comes to dating apps.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Avgitidis:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We are all living pretty frictionless lives in 2026 in the United States. What I mean by that is you do most things that you need to do on technology on your phone. You can order food through Uber Eats. You can order a car through Lyft you can go to the Starbucks checkout line and actually use the app, not have to interact with a barista at all. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so when you look at dating, I just said before that, you know, dating was never meant to be done, like solo. It’s supposed to be a communal thing because at the end of the day, should you two work out, the alliance of family is still there. And it, that is important because family is what determines our long-term values, even the ones we don’t agree with. that is where our attachment comes from.That is where our initial beliefs, our initial philosophies in life come from. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like it’s all developed from these families that we are a part of and what we might create, so for dating apps or AI matchmakers, which I hate that I’m even using that word, but whatever, um, what I find really shocking is that it’s because the environment is so frictionless that people are experiencing dating fatigue. Why would you make it even more frictionless? Like, I don’t know how that helps people. and by the way, I’m not anti dating app, but we, we, you don’t have to participate in it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There is a world out there where you could use. An an online tool to get offline. And those tools are called Eventbrite. There’s also social clubs in New York. The fastest growing social club is New York City Backgammon Club. Uh, people, hundreds of people show up to play an ancient game.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Avgitidis:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They put their phones away. And I know that sounds for some people it’s like, ‘oh my God, you want me to go out?’ But you wouldn’t be thinking, this is weird. If it was 2016 or if it was 2006. But now that we have worked from home, now that we have these hybrid work schedules, which again, I’m not against, I think these are fantastic opportunities, but if you’re gonna work from home,\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">that means you have to put in even more effort to actually be involved in social events.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah. You’ve really talked about how friction is necessary for. Community. You need to be a little uncomfortable to meet people, and that community is the secret to relationships. Can you expand on that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Avgitidis:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The reason why I say that you have to fill up a social calendar is because it’s not just romantic relationships, but friendships. We have this idea that friendship is supposed to be organic, but romantic relationships are supposed to be intentional. And it’s actually the reverse. Your friendships have always been intentional, right? The friendships you made in high school or in elementary school, it wasn’t your intention, but your parents intended to live in that neighborhood.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You and your group of friends went to the same school and you met, and through proximity, you became friends. You see this with your college friends, you see this with your work friends. You see this with most adult friendships, that these were intentional choices that had you meet this person.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So to think that friendship is now organic, it really collapses like how we make friends, because you typically don’t make friends just walking in the supermarket. more than half of you’re wearing AirPods when you go in there. So you know, no one’s really talking to you either. So. The way to create any sort of relationship is we have to have the baseline foundation of friendship.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Avgitidis:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Well, friendship can only happen with two things in this formula, proximity and familiarity. If your algorithm is only showing you one single race, one single body type, one single lifestyle, then that is what you’re familiar with. And I can understand when people say to me, I’m just not attracted to this, or I’m not attracted to that. I, I get it. Your, your own upbringing is going to influence what you are familiar with. Right? But then there’s that proximity and that re, you know, proximity is also about repetition. You have to have that time invested in that person. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So if you were to develop friendships, if you really put that as your goal in 2026, the odds of you getting a relationship through this friendship circle, through this brand new social circle would exponentially grow. Because the people that are going to have the most influence over what your future looks like at this point is whoever is new to that social circle that you’re developing, \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Avgitidis:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I remember when I met my spouse, my husband, the people that introduced us, who I intentionally met, I actively did things to meet these people. I had only met them three months before and they completely changed my life and I will forever be grateful for them. But that’s it though, is why did that friendship flourish? Familiarity, proximity. I was constantly seeing them, so that way when I met the rest of their friendship circle. I was familiar with the values that both my spouse and our mutual friend shared.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What my grandmother, her mother, and her grandmother did really well was build community and they also understood that marriage was a long term commitment, not necessarily by just two people, but by two families because you know, they had a village and that village has to be there for each other.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thank you so much for joining us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Avgitidis:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thank you for having me.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was Matchmaker Maria, the host of the podcast Ask a Matchmaker and author of the book, Matchmaker Maria’s No Nonsense Guide to Finding Love.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So we’ve been talking about how to find someone online and in real life — and hate to break it to you, but sometimes that does involve going outside. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But once you’ve found the one do you keep tabs on them? That’s after this break.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So this episode is all about finding love in this very online landscape. And so far, we’ve heard about how people are finding connection — whether it’s through a matchmaker, an AI-powered dating app, or a doom scroll speed date. Now, for the last chocolate in our Valentine’s Day assortment, it’s time for a story about literally finding your love … Or at least, finding your love’s location. And this one’s personal for me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ready? How about opening one last tab?: Did I digitally u-haul?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Chinese folklore, there is the Red Thread of Fate. It’s a magical red cord that connects lovers who are destined to be together, no matter what happens. The lore says that the old god of matchmaking binds the couple together by tying the cord around their ankles or their pinkies, depending on who you ask. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Although the cord might twist and tangle, it’ll never break. They’ll always find their way back to each other in the end. Today, we just have Find My Friends. With this nifty little app, you can see all your loved ones as little dots on a map, whenever you want! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I share my location with over a dozen people — family members, close friends, and my partner. Over the holidays, a relative who isn’t much older than me was shocked that I’m so cavalier about sharing my location with others. Especially because we just put out an episode on digital hygiene and personal security. And their reaction made me reevaluate some of my online habits: Am I a digital u-hauler? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you aren’t familiar with this, u-hauling is a lesbian stereotype. Many queer women are inclined to develop intense emotional bonds and commit to new relationships, very quickly. So quickly, they move in together. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Audio clip from TikTok account @Madeitoutpodcast]\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What does a lesbian bring on a second date? A u-haul! \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was comedian Lea DeLaria recently retelling her 30-year old joke. She first told it during her comedy special in the 90s, and the u-haul lesbian has been a community-defining punchline ever since. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And now, the so-called “urge to merge” is influencing digital habits, too. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have managed to avoid the stereotype of actually u-hauling. It took me well over a year of dating, and before that, eight years of friendship, to move in with my partner. And in previous relationships, I’d always been adamant that we really know each other before sharing a home. In fact, I didn’t even want to share an Instagram grid. Up until my partner and I got together, I had never hard launched a girlfriend. I always had very firm boundaries in relationships. But when it comes to sharing my location? Maybe it’s a different story. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m definitely not the first queer person to hop into the proverbial digital u-haul. For this story, our team asked people to send voice notes about their experiences with location sharing and romance. Our producer Maya Cueva got this voice note from her friend, Taj. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Taj:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I sent this person, who I was dating, my location and I thought that was fine. They shared their location with me uh, really early on, like probably in the first, like month or two. And at the time I shared locations with all my friends, like 15 people at this time, like, I didn’t think anything of it. Did it early on. Had no idea it was called digital U-Hauling.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: Ok, it’s not really a thing. I made it up, because I’ve done it so often. \u003cb> \u003c/b>I may not be a serial u-hauler, but I am definitely guilty of \u003ci>digital\u003c/i> u-hauling. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it may be a surprise that I myself am guilty of this, because, as a tech journalist you’d think that I’d be more guarded about this. Right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But sharing my location like that felt like wearing my heart on my sleeve. Here! I’m giving you access to my whereabouts all the time! I’m trusting you to find me, but only when it’s socially appropriate! And I would never expect the object of my very trackable affections to send me \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">their \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">location — although, whenever they did reciprocate, it was always like, a nice affirmation that we were on the same page. And more importantly, it was convenient. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My friend Tanya, though, has a completely different approach to this than I do. Tanya is a tech journalist too, and she takes privacy pretty seriously. She sent me this voice note: \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tanya Chen:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> it’s not that I refuse to share my location, especially with, close, uh, trusted friends and family and I have, it’s just something I really prioritize just to be unsearchable and unknowable, just to kind of like be able to exist freely without people knowing where I am. Or bothering me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I do not like knowing, you know, where I am. I do like knowing where you are though, but you can’t have a one way situation, uh, relationship as it turns out like that. so if I were to offer my own thoughts on this yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just to be really precious about like who you share it with, I mean, for the obvious reason, like precarious stalking stuff. Right? it’s an absolute right. And even, um, now something that’s kind of rare to just like, not have anyone find you. Um, love you. Bye. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> U-hauling may be a lesbian stereotype, but the practice of sharing locations is of course, not exclusive to sapphic relationships. And It’s not always a philosophical debate about privacy and personal freedom. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A lot of times, it’s just a matter of practicality. Like, I have these friends, Mandy and Jackson. They’re engaged now, been together for six and a half years, and they’ve been sharing their location for most of their relationship. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mandy Seiner:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Jackson only shares his location with me, but I actually share my location with 14 people, including my mom. I just, I like to look at my little sims and see where my friends are. When do you check my location? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jackson Maxwell:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> it’s pretty rare that I do, uh, Mandy recently had a foot surgery a few months ago, and, uh, getting around, uh, with limited mobility on the New York City subway system, really not easy. Uh, getting around on the streets also not easy, so I would just double check \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mandy Seiner:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and similar, I mean, Jackson making sure I’m okay. but Jackson used to have. seizures. and so if he was out like taking a walk or running errands and I hadn’t heard from him for a while, it gave me a lot of peace of mind to be able to see where he was and know that if something happened and he was stuck somewhere, that I would be able to come find him.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I think of our long-term partnership or any long-term partnership as being like the buddy system in school. Like you always have to know, be with your buddy and know where your buddy is. And that’s what, that’s what having a fiance is, is the buddy system. so I just gotta be able to check on my buddy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Location sharing in relationships has been a decade long debate at this point. It’s super polarizing. Some see it as another form of surveillance, while others can’t trust their partners without location sharing. Like, for my friend Amanda, location sharing is a sticking point. Not between Amanda and her boyfriend, but between the couple and everyone else they know. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Silberling:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I am very online. I am an internet culture reporter. I am professionally, very online. I share my location with a bunch of people, but I don’t have my boyfriend’s location.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It is interesting to me how some friends, when I’ve told them I don’t have his location, they’re like, what are you doing? That’s a red flag. Like, is that okay? And I’m like, I don’t think he’s hiding anything. and I don’t think that we should assume that not sharing your location means you’re hiding something. Because like. Like, I think it’s very reasonable to not want someone to know where you are at all times of the day, like as long as he texts me when he gets home, if he’s out late, I don’t really care that I don’t have his location. But then it’s funny because some of our other friends have been like, I would be worried if you did have your, that their location, like that’s a sign of distrust. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s almost like a micro generational gap where people born in like 1998 think it’s weird that I don’t have my boyfriend’s location and people born in like 1994 are like, it would be really weird if you had it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There are legitimate reasons to hide or obscure your location, and it’s not always to hide cheating or anything nefarious. On this show, we’re always talking about the surveillance state, and how our right to privacy is getting chipped away every day. Big tech companies are collecting all of our data and selling it off to the highest bidder, all the time. And at the individual level, people do abuse these apps to stalk and monitor and control others. My friend Anna is a journalist who’s covered sex and relationships for years, so I consider her an expert in the realm of love and the internet. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anna lovine:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So I’m pretty ambivalent about location sharing because it’s absolutely a tool to surveil people and I ultimately think that breeds more paranoia and, honestly hiding things that don’t need to be hidden. I generally think that more surveillance doesn’t work and just like encourages people to find loopholes.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That being said, Anna and her fiancee, Kat, do share their locations with each other. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anna lovine:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and I prefer it that way. I think it’s a great utility. And I ultimately think if someone, if you share your location and someone’s doing something nefarious, they will figure out a way to, um, not be seen. And even in like other ways where you don’t really want someone to know what you’re doing. Like last year when I was. Planning on proposing, um, a week before Kat had plans. So I went to the location and I swapped the location of my device to my iPad. So if Kat did check my location, in that instance I was like, oh, I need her to see that I’m home. So I changed my location. Bu that was like, so galaxy-brained. I was like, what am I doing? But hey, she didn’t find out.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">is\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> a degree of vulnerability involved in sharing locations, especially in a new relationship. In a way, it’s like giving a piece of yourself to another person. Screw the predestined red thread of fate! With a couple of taps, you can give someone\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">the other end of a digital tether to yourself. No old god of matchmaking needed! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But not everyone is comfortable with that. My friend Harriet has the complete opposite approach to new relationships than I did. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harriet Weber:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I would need to build a lot of trust with someone before wanting to do that. It, it was even a big deal to me to share my location with friends. Um, and I only started doing that because I’ve been going on dates, uh, with total strangers. So if you’re my friend and I’ve shared my location with you, that is a big deal. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m honored to be one of the select few that Harriet does share her location with. We swapped locations when she got back on the apps, and wanted to make sure that her friends knew that she got home safe. And since then, it has been really convenient. Like, having each others’ locations came in handy when we were trying to find each other in a crowded park during Pride. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like many other people in this story, Harriet is also a tech journalist. Hey, a lot of my friends are, ok? And I, as well as a lot of my friends, are hyperaware of the fact that convenience often comes at the cost of personal privacy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harriet Weber:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Something I have feelings on myself is, um, the feeling of being surveilled. It’s so abstracted that it’s not really in my face, like a camera would be in my face. For example. If, if a camera’s in your face, you’re gonna act a little different, um, regardless of what you’re doing. There’s just something about it that reminds me a little bit too much of like, spyware.I guess it just makes me a little bit uncomfortable.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is something I had grappled with, amid all of my digital u-hauling antics. You’re giving the other person the \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">option\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to surveil you, sure, but you’re also trusting that they won’t. The social contract dictates that location sharing is a sacred bond. When you opt in, you’re agreeing that you’ll only use that connection when it’s appropriate. To me, the inherent vulnerability in location sharing is what makes it feel like such a romantic gesture. I mean, it’s commitment, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Taj:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I don’t recommend it. Clearly, I think it is a little too much.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Taj again. They had shared their location after just a month of dating their new girlfriend. Long story short, they aren’t together anymore.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Taj:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I think it put a lot of stress in like, I don’t know, a weird surveillance on the relationship and there was a few times where it was like, okay, she could see my location. And she’s like, oh, like, ‘what’s up? You haven’t hit me,’ versus like, oh, maybe you’re just at home focusing on yourself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It only takes one weird experience to drain the romance out of location sharing. Years ago, amid a breakup, I felt that exact sense of surveillance that Taj was talking about. The whole thing made me a lot more parsimonious about sharing my location especially when there are romantic stakes involved. When it came to finding my dates in crowded places, I had become a big fan of the “share for one hour” option. The other person can see where you are, but that link expires. You get all the convenience, without any of the commitment or vulnerability. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But then when \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">is\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> the right time to \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">permanently\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> share locations? When do you take that leap of faith? My friend Anna weighed in on this again. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anna lovine:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I don’t remember having a discussion like, oh, are we gonna share locations now? Or, oh, can I have your location? I’m sure it was an instance where, like, oh, the subway’s down and I’m gonna be late, so why don’t, I’m gonna give you my location so you can see where I am. It definitely felt good. It didn’t feel like as significant as, say, becoming girlfriends or obviously like moving in together or something like that. But it felt nice. It’s like an even deeper level of trust.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My days of digital u-hauling, of sharing and then un-sharing with new people, came to an end three years ago, when my partner and I got together. We were best friends for nearly a decade at that point, and had each others’ locations the entire time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">By the time we finally started dating, we had already established a routine of following the other person’s little blue dot to find each other — at concerts, at the farmer’s market, and yes, even as friends at the giant IKEA in Burbank, California. In fact, I didn’t know her address for a good year, because I would just drive to her location on Find My Friends. Although we didn’t \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">literally\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> u-haul, we were already sharing this hugely vulnerable connection. I don’t remember when we actually \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">started\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> sharing our locations with each other. But I like to think that the red thread of fate bound us together long before an app ever did. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In all of my digital u-hauling, things would end, and I would inevitably cut that tether — digital and emotional. But this time, I know it won’t break. \u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Special thanks to our friends for sending us their location sharing stories: Taj Weaver, Tanya Chen, Mandy Seiner and Jackson Maxwell, Amanda Silberling, Anna lovine, and Harriet Weber. If there’s anything I love more than love stories, it’s a juicy voice note. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ok, happy Valentine’s day, lovers. Let’s close all these tabs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios, and is reported and hosted by me, Morgan Sung.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode was produced by Maya Cueva, with support from Gabriela Glueck. It was edited by Jen Chien, who is KQED’s Director of Podcasts.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\nOur team includes editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa, who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music by APM. Brendan Willard is our audio engineer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager, and Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode’s keyboard sounds were submitted by my dad, Casey Sung, and recorded on his white and blue Epomaker Aula F99 keyboard with Graywood v3 switches, and Cherry profile PBT keycaps. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ok, and I know it’s podcast cliche, but if you like these deep dives, and want us to keep making more, it would \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">really \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">help us out if you could rate and review us on Spotify, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to the show. Don’t forget to drop a comment and tell your friends, too. Or even your enemies! Or… frenemies? And if you \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">really\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> like Close All Tabs and want to support public media, go to donate.KQED.org/podcasts.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks for listening! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"description": "In honor of Valentine’s Day, we’re bringing you an episode about love. We start with TikTok creator Jojo Manzo, who turned his late-night doomscrolling into a matchmaking experiment when he invited thousands of strangers to flirt in his comment section. Then we talk to Maria Avgitidis, a third-generation matchmaker, about why friction, community, and a little discomfort might actually be the point of dating. And finally, we get to the physical … or, at least, geographical. When you find someone you care about, do you share your location with them? Is it intimacy, convenience, surveillance or all three? We explore what it looks like to find human connection in a deeply digital world.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In honor of Valentine’s Day, we’re bringing you an episode about love. We start with TikTok creator Jojo Manzo, who turned his late-night doomscrolling into a matchmaking experiment when he invited thousands of strangers to flirt in his comment section. Then we talk to Maria Avgitidis, a third-generation matchmaker, about why friction, community, and a little discomfort might actually be the point of dating. And finally, we get to the physical … or, at least, geographical. When you find someone you care about, do you share your location with them? Is it intimacy, convenience, surveillance or all three? We explore what it looks like to find human connection in a deeply digital world.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC8381904068\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guests:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.matchmakermaria.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Maria Avgitidis Pyrgiotakis\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, Matchmaker and CEO of Agapematch\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@thisshouldbeatrend\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jojo Manzo\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, Musician and content creator\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Friends of Close All Tabs: Mandy Seiner and Jackson Maxwell, Anna Iovine, Tanya Chen, Amanda Silberling, Harriet Weber, and Taj Weaver\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Further Reading/Listening:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/03/technology/ai-dating-apps.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You Don’t Need to Swipe Right. A.I. Is Transforming Dating Apps\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Eli Tan, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The New York Times\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/25/podcasts/location-sharing-relationships.html\">To Share or Not to Share? How Location Sharing Is Changing Our Relationships\u003c/a> — \u003ci>Modern Love Podcast\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/perfection-without-connection-how-ai-is-becoming-digital-wingman-2025-10-04/\">‘Perfection without the connection’: How AI is becoming a digital wingman\u003c/a> — Hani Richter, \u003ci>Reuters\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.theatlantic.com/family/2025/09/ai-matchmaking-online-dating/684386/\">The Doomed Dream of an AI Matchmaker\u003c/a> — Faith Hill, \u003ci>The Atlantic\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.matchmakermaria.com/book\">Ask A Matchmaker: Matchmaker Maria’s No Nonsense Guide to Finding Love\u003c/a> — Maria Avgitidis, \u003ci>Matchmaker Maria\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.bustle.com/articles/157064-is-u-hauling-real-heres-whats-behind-the-lesbian-stereotype\">Is U-Hauling Real? Here’s What’s Behind The Lesbian Stereotype \u003c/a>— Lea Rose Emery, \u003ci>Bustle\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.pagingdrlesbian.com/p/whats-the-deal-with-u-haul-lesbians\">What’s The Deal With U-Haul Lesbians?\u003c/a> — Kira Deshler,\u003ci> Paging Dr. Lesbian\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Follow us on\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\"> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Instagram\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@closealltabs\"> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">TikTok\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cb>Morgan Sung, Host: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Look, covering what we cover on this show, things right now can feel pretty bleak — surveillance culture, environmental injustice, the erosion of constitutional rights, the way algorithms silo and divide us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At a time when it feels like the machines are taking over, we thought we could spend an episode reminding all of you of what makes us most human: Love. And what better time to do that than a commercialized holiday designed to sell mass-produced chocolate? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Welcome to our Valentine’s Day episode! Today, we have a little heart shaped box of chocolates for you: three stories about how we connect as humans … even in this modern digital hellscape.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Whether it’s through a human matchmaker, in a sea of AI-powered dating apps, or stumbling across a comment thread of hot singles in your area. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Or, literally finding the one and that involves unpacking a very thorny relationship debate: Do you share your location with your partner? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Let’s get into our first story today. Love ‘em or hate ‘em, dating apps have been part of the romance ecosystem for over a decade. And they can be exhausting. But, we live so much of our lives online these days, and it’s not easy to meet someone in real life either. So some people have taken it upon themselves to play digital matchmaker. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Let’s open up a new tab: Doom scroll speed date. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So picture this: It’s late at night, you’re doomscrolling. Just consuming content until your brain shuts down and you can finally fall asleep. And then you come across a guy who also appears to be laying in bed, in the dark, in the same situation as you. And he starts talking directly to you, through the screen. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Audio clip from the TikTok account @thisshouldbeatrend\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Oh, hi. It appears as though we’re both doom scrolling at the same time right now. Uh, how, how’s it going? What the hell’s going on on your feed right now?\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These are doomscroll dates. It’s like a meet-cute, in the middle of the night when neither person should be awake. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Audio clip from the TikTok account @thisshouldbeatrend\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">]\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Actually, you know what? Don’t answer that. Um, it’s getting late. You should probably go to bed and I should probably go to bed, so it was cool bumping into you. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Joseph Manzo, also known as Jojo Manzo, also known by his TikTok handle, ThisShouldBeATrend, started his TikTok account as marketing research for his job. Then last year, on a whim, Jojo started a series where he pretended to take viewers on dates in the middle of a doom scrolling session.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">People started really responding to his series. And Jojo realized that he could use his platform to play matchmaker. So he put together what he calls the doomscroll speed date. I’ll let Jojo tell the story. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jojo Manzo, Guest:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So I noticed how many people in the comment sections of the doom scroll date videos that I was putting out. I, I feel like everyone’s just like craving connection, you know? Speaking for myself, I love being the matchmaker. Like I, I really want to put a bunch of people in a room just to see what happens and hope that some of them fall in love or some of them like connect in some way, shape, or form.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So Jojo posted a video asking his audience to respond with comments, and laid out some instructions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jojo Manzo:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So, basically the ground rules of this, uh, doom scroll, speed date, is what I called it, is basically post a photo of yourself or a meme that you really like, and then your age and where you’re from. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Once people did that. Other users were encouraged to leave a reply underneath with a photo of themselves or another meme that might match the energy, and whoever left the original comment, was the only person that is allowed to reach out to someone who replied to them. So that way it kind of respected boundaries on everyone’s parts.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The comments poured in, gym selfies, polished headshots, goofy unposed photos that you probably wouldn’t find on a typical dating app profile and lots of memes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jojo Manzo:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> This user said Dallas, Texas with a meme of a very nefarious cartoon just kind of sticking out their tongue, all like, and then someone said, ain’t too far drive for me with the eye emojis. But as this user, so absolutely put, “I don’t have a meme, but I did see this cool apple in the store the other day. This is flirting, right? Why does this feel like a better dating opportunity than hinge? “\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Someone decided to post a photo of them on Halloween, dressed as Benjamin Franklin, and yes, this is a woman dressed as Benjamin Franklin, uh, with a 0.5 camera selfie, and also put some of their music taste \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jojo’s doom scroll speed date video got thousands of comments overnight. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jojo Manzo:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I think that post resonated with people so well is because I was almost selling them on a pitch to be like. H Hinge and Bumble aren’t working, but TikTok might work Dating app algorithms are very much like Instagram, like everyone really curates their profiles, whereas I feel like people on TikTok are. A lot more comfortable in being careless. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That kind of just develops this opportunity for people to not feel like there’s so much pressure. like it is a casual interaction. You either connect or you don’t \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: While a lot of people \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">did\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> put themselves out there in the comments, they weren’t getting many replies … \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jojo Manzo:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> All the comments that were coming in were largely women:, \u003c/span>\u003cb>“\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The comments are full of baddies, but I’m not seeing a male in New York City.” The straight men were not making moves. I actually left a reply to somebody who had asked, “Where are all the men at?” And I think one of my comments verbatim was, “Yo! Respectfully, y’all aren’t flirting enough.” And that comment got lit up with likes and then a lot of replies started coming in for the people who already posted.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jojo Manzo:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> “38-year-old anime nerd in Columbus, Ohio. Forgive the gym photo, don’t have a lot of full body pictures.” And it’s, it’s a dude in the gym, \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, that this person sent high with five eyes and a classic smiley face really, really cheesing. Aw, she’s so cute. With a little cardigan on and the glasses. Aw, I hope they work out. I hope they get to meet up.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I did not follow up with anyone. Quite frankly, there are thousands of comments on that post that I would have to, I would have to doom scroll the comment section that that’s how many there are and that’s how much time it would take. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But I think some of the, these ones, like I just mentioned, might have a little bit of merit and I’ll need to reach out to them on the side. Just be like, so, uh, you guys meet up yet? and then there were a lot of, there was actually a lot of requests for me to do this again, but to do it by city, which I haven’t done yet.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I really do think this experiment was a success. I mean, my head canon is that there’s at least one potential couple now, you know, I, I really do feel like. This was a good exercise for people to put themselves out there and, um, for either starting the conversation or to drive the conversation. Um, and man, I really, really hope that I can be invited to somebody’s wedding someday\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jojo Manzo tapped into people’s frustration with dating apps and swipe fatigue and tried to DIY a solution. Like he said, he likes playing matchmaker. Tech companies also say they have a solution, with the hottest feature in dating apps right now: AI matchmakers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But will they actually help? Well, let’s open a new tab. What are AI matchmakers missing?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To be clear, these aren’t AI companions that would replace human dates. These are AI-powered features to help users connect with dates. Like one called Amata, that talks to users, and then describes them to potential matches. Or Rizz, the digital wingman that analyzes screenshots of messages, and generates a quippy, conversation-sparking response. Sliding into DMs? You can outsource your flirting! There are now dozens of apps that offer AI-powered relationship advice. A dating coach in your pocket, available 24/7. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All of these features are designed to alleviate swipe fatigue: the mental, emotional, and physical burnout of modern dating. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But I wanted to hear from a human matchmaker about why she’s so suspicious of integrating AI features into dating apps, and what it really takes to find a match. What’s the secret sauce to meeting new people?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Matchmaker Maria.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Avgitidis, Guest:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I am Maria Avgitidis better known as Matchmaker Maria, and I am the founder of Agape Match, which is a matchmaking service based out of New York City. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She’s also an author, and the host of the podcast Ask A Matchmaker. Maria comes from a long line of matchmakers. Before her, her grandmother, her great grandmother, and her great great grandmother were matchmakers in Greece. These previous generations lived through times of famine and political unrest. So back then, matchmaking was really more about building alliances between families. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Maria Avgitidis:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> And so when I say alliance, you have to think about bartering and trade. And you know, if my family makes milk and your family makes glass bottles, that’s a pretty good match. So these are the things that they were thinking about.They weren’t thinking about are these two people in love? They were thinking about are these families gonna get on. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, when my grandmother was matchmaking, first of all, there’s no computers, let alone the internet, let alone mobile phones where we would swipe on potential soulmates while sitting on the couch. And a lot of my clientele now in 2026 and didn’t just start now, it started, I wanna say 11 years ago. In 2015 we started getting the new audience of people who just felt a lot of dating fatigue.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it, they didn’t have problem going on dates, you know, they could open up an app, but if it takes too long to go from online to offline, you can feel a bit of dating fatigue. But in 2026 what I see the biggest difference in singles is how the algorithm and also how an AI can reaffirm things that might not necessarily be the right thing for us. And I think about that a lot because, there is a rise in AI in dating.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah. I’m so glad you brought up AI because that’s what we’re here to talk about today. the biggest trend in, in dating app tech right now is so-called AI matchmaking. Everyone’s trying to get their LLMs to be the next cupid. Um, a lot of them use AI chatbots to basically ask users questions and then match them with other users based on their answers so that they don’t have to build a profile, they don’t have to swipe, removing a lot of that friction, you know, what do you make of this trend?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Avgitidis:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Um, first of all, I resent the fact that it’s called matchmaker. just because I’m maybe a generational matchmaker. I know what it takes to be a professional matchmaker. It’s so much about community building. At the end of the day, you know, matchmaking is considered one of the oldest professions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It ranks up there with a midwife and uh, and sex work and, The reason why matchmaking has always existed is because dating is a communal activity. You know, don’t look at yourself right now if you are single, laying on the couch, swiping while an episode of Friends or Big Bang Theory playing in the background.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s not what dating, that’s not what courtship is supposed to be like. It’s supposed to be your parents meddling. It’s supposed to be your cousin setting up with their friends. It’s your friends setting you up with their friends and you meeting their coworkers at a barbecue. Like dating is a communal effort, ’cause we were not meant to date alone. Humans have this instinct to connect. So that’s the first part, but now what is it exactly doing? And it goes back to my suspicions of, you know, what algorithms and AI can do. I’m not saying that they’re not helpful in certain elements of our jobs, \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know, I just actually put the privacy policy of a social media site on my ChatGPT to be like, what am I, what’s wrong with it? You know, and like, let me know so I don’t have to read the whole privacy policy. So I’m not saying that there’s not some really great benefits with having ai, um, help us, but I do feel like people have a very poor perception of who they actually are.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think when you talk to an AI, you wanna say really good things about yourself. You’re not necessarily being tasked to look at yourself critically and. Because the AI is built to reaffirm you, even if you’re making a very bad decision. So now take it to dating, what questions are these apps asking to really get to know you, to really understand what kind of partner you will be? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think a chat bot can do a really great job at making some assumptions on your horoscope or numerology or your Enneagram because a lot of content in on the internet already exists, where it pulls from. I wonder what kind of content it would pull from to help someone who is experiencing extreme loneliness. And then it goes back to the end of who is this for? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No one’s building an AI matchmaking company from the goodness of their heart. There’s probably gonna be investors, there’s probably gonna be shareholders. There’s probably a company that wants to buy it and someone’s gonna profit. And I’m not saying that a dating company or a dating service provider should not get paid for the work that they do. They should absolutely get paid. I’ll be the first to say it. Hello!\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But I, as a human matchmaker, have a motivation to get my client into a relationship as quickly as possible, because as a human being, I don’t wanna talk to my clients longer than I have to. Right? Like, I really want them in relationships because I want them to leave me alone. That’s not, that’s an optimistic way of looking at it. Right? I wanna be good at my job. I wanna be a good matchmaker. Right? But dating companies, they don’t have that, they can tell us, oh, you know, it’s not just about shareholders.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like, we wanna help people fall in love. Okay. But you, you, you’re not creating apps that are providing that safe environment. Women are looking for. And you are showing men, women that don’t wanna date them, so they’re having a terrible dating experience and all this because they get to pay every month their subscription to make the shareholders happy.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> a lot of these dating apps or a lot of these, I, I know you hate the term, but that’s what they’re calling themselves, AI matchmakers, um, report to. Yeah. Just take that kind of friction out of, swiping,out of like having to sift through all these new people and all these new profiles. I mean, Facebook’s dating assistant for example, it works by basically telling the chat bot, uh, a bunch of unique traits that you’re looking for in a partner and they will present you with matches. And the example that meta itself used was find me a Brooklyn girl in tech and.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The chatbot will present profiles of Brooklyn Girls in Tech. I, it’s not dissimilar to what you do, but also, you know, it’s, it seems to be the final evolution of everything that people have been complaining about when it comes to dating apps.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Avgitidis:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> We are all living pretty frictionless lives in 2026 in the United States. What I mean by that is you do most things that you need to do on technology on your phone. You can order food through Uber Eats. You can order a car through Lyft you can go to the Starbucks checkout line and actually use the app, not have to interact with a barista at all. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so when you look at dating, I just said before that, you know, dating was never meant to be done, like solo. It’s supposed to be a communal thing because at the end of the day, should you two work out, the alliance of family is still there. And it, that is important because family is what determines our long-term values, even the ones we don’t agree with. that is where our attachment comes from.That is where our initial beliefs, our initial philosophies in life come from. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like it’s all developed from these families that we are a part of and what we might create, so for dating apps or AI matchmakers, which I hate that I’m even using that word, but whatever, um, what I find really shocking is that it’s because the environment is so frictionless that people are experiencing dating fatigue. Why would you make it even more frictionless? Like, I don’t know how that helps people. and by the way, I’m not anti dating app, but we, we, you don’t have to participate in it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There is a world out there where you could use. An an online tool to get offline. And those tools are called Eventbrite. There’s also social clubs in New York. The fastest growing social club is New York City Backgammon Club. Uh, people, hundreds of people show up to play an ancient game.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Avgitidis:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> They put their phones away. And I know that sounds for some people it’s like, ‘oh my God, you want me to go out?’ But you wouldn’t be thinking, this is weird. If it was 2016 or if it was 2006. But now that we have worked from home, now that we have these hybrid work schedules, which again, I’m not against, I think these are fantastic opportunities, but if you’re gonna work from home,\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">that means you have to put in even more effort to actually be involved in social events.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Yeah. You’ve really talked about how friction is necessary for. Community. You need to be a little uncomfortable to meet people, and that community is the secret to relationships. Can you expand on that?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Avgitidis:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> The reason why I say that you have to fill up a social calendar is because it’s not just romantic relationships, but friendships. We have this idea that friendship is supposed to be organic, but romantic relationships are supposed to be intentional. And it’s actually the reverse. Your friendships have always been intentional, right? The friendships you made in high school or in elementary school, it wasn’t your intention, but your parents intended to live in that neighborhood.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You and your group of friends went to the same school and you met, and through proximity, you became friends. You see this with your college friends, you see this with your work friends. You see this with most adult friendships, that these were intentional choices that had you meet this person.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So to think that friendship is now organic, it really collapses like how we make friends, because you typically don’t make friends just walking in the supermarket. more than half of you’re wearing AirPods when you go in there. So you know, no one’s really talking to you either. So. The way to create any sort of relationship is we have to have the baseline foundation of friendship.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Avgitidis:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Well, friendship can only happen with two things in this formula, proximity and familiarity. If your algorithm is only showing you one single race, one single body type, one single lifestyle, then that is what you’re familiar with. And I can understand when people say to me, I’m just not attracted to this, or I’m not attracted to that. I, I get it. Your, your own upbringing is going to influence what you are familiar with. Right? But then there’s that proximity and that re, you know, proximity is also about repetition. You have to have that time invested in that person. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So if you were to develop friendships, if you really put that as your goal in 2026, the odds of you getting a relationship through this friendship circle, through this brand new social circle would exponentially grow. Because the people that are going to have the most influence over what your future looks like at this point is whoever is new to that social circle that you’re developing, \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Avgitidis:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I remember when I met my spouse, my husband, the people that introduced us, who I intentionally met, I actively did things to meet these people. I had only met them three months before and they completely changed my life and I will forever be grateful for them. But that’s it though, is why did that friendship flourish? Familiarity, proximity. I was constantly seeing them, so that way when I met the rest of their friendship circle. I was familiar with the values that both my spouse and our mutual friend shared.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What my grandmother, her mother, and her grandmother did really well was build community and they also understood that marriage was a long term commitment, not necessarily by just two people, but by two families because you know, they had a village and that village has to be there for each other.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thank you so much for joining us.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Maria Avgitidis:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Thank you for having me.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was Matchmaker Maria, the host of the podcast Ask a Matchmaker and author of the book, Matchmaker Maria’s No Nonsense Guide to Finding Love.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So we’ve been talking about how to find someone online and in real life — and hate to break it to you, but sometimes that does involve going outside. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But once you’ve found the one do you keep tabs on them? That’s after this break.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So this episode is all about finding love in this very online landscape. And so far, we’ve heard about how people are finding connection — whether it’s through a matchmaker, an AI-powered dating app, or a doom scroll speed date. Now, for the last chocolate in our Valentine’s Day assortment, it’s time for a story about literally finding your love … Or at least, finding your love’s location. And this one’s personal for me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ready? How about opening one last tab?: Did I digitally u-haul?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In Chinese folklore, there is the Red Thread of Fate. It’s a magical red cord that connects lovers who are destined to be together, no matter what happens. The lore says that the old god of matchmaking binds the couple together by tying the cord around their ankles or their pinkies, depending on who you ask. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Although the cord might twist and tangle, it’ll never break. They’ll always find their way back to each other in the end. Today, we just have Find My Friends. With this nifty little app, you can see all your loved ones as little dots on a map, whenever you want! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I share my location with over a dozen people — family members, close friends, and my partner. Over the holidays, a relative who isn’t much older than me was shocked that I’m so cavalier about sharing my location with others. Especially because we just put out an episode on digital hygiene and personal security. And their reaction made me reevaluate some of my online habits: Am I a digital u-hauler? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you aren’t familiar with this, u-hauling is a lesbian stereotype. Many queer women are inclined to develop intense emotional bonds and commit to new relationships, very quickly. So quickly, they move in together. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Audio clip from TikTok account @Madeitoutpodcast]\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What does a lesbian bring on a second date? A u-haul! \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That was comedian Lea DeLaria recently retelling her 30-year old joke. She first told it during her comedy special in the 90s, and the u-haul lesbian has been a community-defining punchline ever since. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And now, the so-called “urge to merge” is influencing digital habits, too. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have managed to avoid the stereotype of actually u-hauling. It took me well over a year of dating, and before that, eight years of friendship, to move in with my partner. And in previous relationships, I’d always been adamant that we really know each other before sharing a home. In fact, I didn’t even want to share an Instagram grid. Up until my partner and I got together, I had never hard launched a girlfriend. I always had very firm boundaries in relationships. But when it comes to sharing my location? Maybe it’s a different story. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m definitely not the first queer person to hop into the proverbial digital u-haul. For this story, our team asked people to send voice notes about their experiences with location sharing and romance. Our producer Maya Cueva got this voice note from her friend, Taj. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Taj:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I sent this person, who I was dating, my location and I thought that was fine. They shared their location with me uh, really early on, like probably in the first, like month or two. And at the time I shared locations with all my friends, like 15 people at this time, like, I didn’t think anything of it. Did it early on. Had no idea it was called digital U-Hauling.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">: Ok, it’s not really a thing. I made it up, because I’ve done it so often. \u003cb> \u003c/b>I may not be a serial u-hauler, but I am definitely guilty of \u003ci>digital\u003c/i> u-hauling. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it may be a surprise that I myself am guilty of this, because, as a tech journalist you’d think that I’d be more guarded about this. Right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But sharing my location like that felt like wearing my heart on my sleeve. Here! I’m giving you access to my whereabouts all the time! I’m trusting you to find me, but only when it’s socially appropriate! And I would never expect the object of my very trackable affections to send me \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">their \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">location — although, whenever they did reciprocate, it was always like, a nice affirmation that we were on the same page. And more importantly, it was convenient. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My friend Tanya, though, has a completely different approach to this than I do. Tanya is a tech journalist too, and she takes privacy pretty seriously. She sent me this voice note: \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Tanya Chen:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> it’s not that I refuse to share my location, especially with, close, uh, trusted friends and family and I have, it’s just something I really prioritize just to be unsearchable and unknowable, just to kind of like be able to exist freely without people knowing where I am. Or bothering me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I do not like knowing, you know, where I am. I do like knowing where you are though, but you can’t have a one way situation, uh, relationship as it turns out like that. so if I were to offer my own thoughts on this yeah.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Just to be really precious about like who you share it with, I mean, for the obvious reason, like precarious stalking stuff. Right? it’s an absolute right. And even, um, now something that’s kind of rare to just like, not have anyone find you. Um, love you. Bye. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> U-hauling may be a lesbian stereotype, but the practice of sharing locations is of course, not exclusive to sapphic relationships. And It’s not always a philosophical debate about privacy and personal freedom. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A lot of times, it’s just a matter of practicality. Like, I have these friends, Mandy and Jackson. They’re engaged now, been together for six and a half years, and they’ve been sharing their location for most of their relationship. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mandy Seiner:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Jackson only shares his location with me, but I actually share my location with 14 people, including my mom. I just, I like to look at my little sims and see where my friends are. When do you check my location? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jackson Maxwell:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> it’s pretty rare that I do, uh, Mandy recently had a foot surgery a few months ago, and, uh, getting around, uh, with limited mobility on the New York City subway system, really not easy. Uh, getting around on the streets also not easy, so I would just double check \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mandy Seiner:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and similar, I mean, Jackson making sure I’m okay. but Jackson used to have. seizures. and so if he was out like taking a walk or running errands and I hadn’t heard from him for a while, it gave me a lot of peace of mind to be able to see where he was and know that if something happened and he was stuck somewhere, that I would be able to come find him.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I think of our long-term partnership or any long-term partnership as being like the buddy system in school. Like you always have to know, be with your buddy and know where your buddy is. And that’s what, that’s what having a fiance is, is the buddy system. so I just gotta be able to check on my buddy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Location sharing in relationships has been a decade long debate at this point. It’s super polarizing. Some see it as another form of surveillance, while others can’t trust their partners without location sharing. Like, for my friend Amanda, location sharing is a sticking point. Not between Amanda and her boyfriend, but between the couple and everyone else they know. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Amanda Silberling:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I am very online. I am an internet culture reporter. I am professionally, very online. I share my location with a bunch of people, but I don’t have my boyfriend’s location.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It is interesting to me how some friends, when I’ve told them I don’t have his location, they’re like, what are you doing? That’s a red flag. Like, is that okay? And I’m like, I don’t think he’s hiding anything. and I don’t think that we should assume that not sharing your location means you’re hiding something. Because like. Like, I think it’s very reasonable to not want someone to know where you are at all times of the day, like as long as he texts me when he gets home, if he’s out late, I don’t really care that I don’t have his location. But then it’s funny because some of our other friends have been like, I would be worried if you did have your, that their location, like that’s a sign of distrust. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s almost like a micro generational gap where people born in like 1998 think it’s weird that I don’t have my boyfriend’s location and people born in like 1994 are like, it would be really weird if you had it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There are legitimate reasons to hide or obscure your location, and it’s not always to hide cheating or anything nefarious. On this show, we’re always talking about the surveillance state, and how our right to privacy is getting chipped away every day. Big tech companies are collecting all of our data and selling it off to the highest bidder, all the time. And at the individual level, people do abuse these apps to stalk and monitor and control others. My friend Anna is a journalist who’s covered sex and relationships for years, so I consider her an expert in the realm of love and the internet. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anna lovine:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> So I’m pretty ambivalent about location sharing because it’s absolutely a tool to surveil people and I ultimately think that breeds more paranoia and, honestly hiding things that don’t need to be hidden. I generally think that more surveillance doesn’t work and just like encourages people to find loopholes.\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That being said, Anna and her fiancee, Kat, do share their locations with each other. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anna lovine:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and I prefer it that way. I think it’s a great utility. And I ultimately think if someone, if you share your location and someone’s doing something nefarious, they will figure out a way to, um, not be seen. And even in like other ways where you don’t really want someone to know what you’re doing. Like last year when I was. Planning on proposing, um, a week before Kat had plans. So I went to the location and I swapped the location of my device to my iPad. So if Kat did check my location, in that instance I was like, oh, I need her to see that I’m home. So I changed my location. Bu that was like, so galaxy-brained. I was like, what am I doing? But hey, she didn’t find out.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">is\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> a degree of vulnerability involved in sharing locations, especially in a new relationship. In a way, it’s like giving a piece of yourself to another person. Screw the predestined red thread of fate! With a couple of taps, you can give someone\u003c/span> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">the other end of a digital tether to yourself. No old god of matchmaking needed! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But not everyone is comfortable with that. My friend Harriet has the complete opposite approach to new relationships than I did. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harriet Weber:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I would need to build a lot of trust with someone before wanting to do that. It, it was even a big deal to me to share my location with friends. Um, and I only started doing that because I’ve been going on dates, uh, with total strangers. So if you’re my friend and I’ve shared my location with you, that is a big deal. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m honored to be one of the select few that Harriet does share her location with. We swapped locations when she got back on the apps, and wanted to make sure that her friends knew that she got home safe. And since then, it has been really convenient. Like, having each others’ locations came in handy when we were trying to find each other in a crowded park during Pride. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like many other people in this story, Harriet is also a tech journalist. Hey, a lot of my friends are, ok? And I, as well as a lot of my friends, are hyperaware of the fact that convenience often comes at the cost of personal privacy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Harriet Weber:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Something I have feelings on myself is, um, the feeling of being surveilled. It’s so abstracted that it’s not really in my face, like a camera would be in my face. For example. If, if a camera’s in your face, you’re gonna act a little different, um, regardless of what you’re doing. There’s just something about it that reminds me a little bit too much of like, spyware.I guess it just makes me a little bit uncomfortable.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is something I had grappled with, amid all of my digital u-hauling antics. You’re giving the other person the \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">option\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> to surveil you, sure, but you’re also trusting that they won’t. The social contract dictates that location sharing is a sacred bond. When you opt in, you’re agreeing that you’ll only use that connection when it’s appropriate. To me, the inherent vulnerability in location sharing is what makes it feel like such a romantic gesture. I mean, it’s commitment, right?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Taj:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I don’t recommend it. Clearly, I think it is a little too much.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Taj again. They had shared their location after just a month of dating their new girlfriend. Long story short, they aren’t together anymore.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Taj:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I think it put a lot of stress in like, I don’t know, a weird surveillance on the relationship and there was a few times where it was like, okay, she could see my location. And she’s like, oh, like, ‘what’s up? You haven’t hit me,’ versus like, oh, maybe you’re just at home focusing on yourself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It only takes one weird experience to drain the romance out of location sharing. Years ago, amid a breakup, I felt that exact sense of surveillance that Taj was talking about. The whole thing made me a lot more parsimonious about sharing my location especially when there are romantic stakes involved. When it came to finding my dates in crowded places, I had become a big fan of the “share for one hour” option. The other person can see where you are, but that link expires. You get all the convenience, without any of the commitment or vulnerability. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But then when \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">is\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> the right time to \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">permanently\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> share locations? When do you take that leap of faith? My friend Anna weighed in on this again. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anna lovine:\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> I don’t remember having a discussion like, oh, are we gonna share locations now? Or, oh, can I have your location? I’m sure it was an instance where, like, oh, the subway’s down and I’m gonna be late, so why don’t, I’m gonna give you my location so you can see where I am. It definitely felt good. It didn’t feel like as significant as, say, becoming girlfriends or obviously like moving in together or something like that. But it felt nice. It’s like an even deeper level of trust.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My days of digital u-hauling, of sharing and then un-sharing with new people, came to an end three years ago, when my partner and I got together. We were best friends for nearly a decade at that point, and had each others’ locations the entire time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">By the time we finally started dating, we had already established a routine of following the other person’s little blue dot to find each other — at concerts, at the farmer’s market, and yes, even as friends at the giant IKEA in Burbank, California. In fact, I didn’t know her address for a good year, because I would just drive to her location on Find My Friends. Although we didn’t \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">literally\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> u-haul, we were already sharing this hugely vulnerable connection. I don’t remember when we actually \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">started\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> sharing our locations with each other. But I like to think that the red thread of fate bound us together long before an app ever did. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In all of my digital u-hauling, things would end, and I would inevitably cut that tether — digital and emotional. But this time, I know it won’t break. \u003c/span>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Special thanks to our friends for sending us their location sharing stories: Taj Weaver, Tanya Chen, Mandy Seiner and Jackson Maxwell, Amanda Silberling, Anna lovine, and Harriet Weber. If there’s anything I love more than love stories, it’s a juicy voice note. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ok, happy Valentine’s day, lovers. Let’s close all these tabs. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios, and is reported and hosted by me, Morgan Sung.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode was produced by Maya Cueva, with support from Gabriela Glueck. It was edited by Jen Chien, who is KQED’s Director of Podcasts.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\nOur team includes editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa, who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music by APM. Brendan Willard is our audio engineer.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager, and Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode’s keyboard sounds were submitted by my dad, Casey Sung, and recorded on his white and blue Epomaker Aula F99 keyboard with Graywood v3 switches, and Cherry profile PBT keycaps. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ok, and I know it’s podcast cliche, but if you like these deep dives, and want us to keep making more, it would \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">really \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">help us out if you could rate and review us on Spotify, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to the show. Don’t forget to drop a comment and tell your friends, too. Or even your enemies! Or… frenemies? And if you \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">really\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> like Close All Tabs and want to support public media, go to donate.KQED.org/podcasts.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks for listening! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
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"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game – and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
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"marketplace": {
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"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 4pm-4:30pm, MON-WED 6:30pm-7pm",
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"masters-of-scale": {
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},
"mindshift": {
"id": "mindshift",
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"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
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"order": 12
},
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5",
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"morning-edition": {
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"info": "\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. Hosts Steve Inskeep, David Greene and Rachel Martin bring you the latest breaking news and features to prepare you for the day.",
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"onourwatch": {
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"title": "On Our Watch",
"tagline": "Deeply-reported investigative journalism",
"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
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"order": 11
},
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"on-the-media": {
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"title": "On The Media",
"info": "Our weekly podcast explores how the media 'sausage' is made, casts an incisive eye on fluctuations in the marketplace of ideas, and examines threats to the freedom of information and expression in America and abroad. For one hour a week, the show tries to lift the veil from the process of \"making media,\" especially news media, because it's through that lens that we see the world and the world sees us",
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},
"link": "/radio/program/on-the-media",
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},
"pbs-newshour": {
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"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/PBS-NewsHour---Full-Show-p425698/",
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},
"perspectives": {
"id": "perspectives",
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"order": 14
},
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"planet-money": {
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"info": "The economy explained. Imagine you could call up a friend and say, Meet me at the bar and tell me what's going on with the economy. Now imagine that's actually a fun evening.",
"airtime": "SUN 3pm-4pm",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/planetmoney.jpg",
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},
"link": "/radio/program/planet-money",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/planet-money/id290783428?mt=2",
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},
"politicalbreakdown": {
"id": "politicalbreakdown",
"title": "Political Breakdown",
"tagline": "Politics from a personal perspective",
"info": "Political Breakdown is a new series that explores the political intersection of California and the nation. Each week hosts Scott Shafer and Marisa Lagos are joined with a new special guest to unpack politics -- with personality — and offer an insider’s glimpse at how politics happens.",
"airtime": "THU 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Political-Breakdown-2024-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"order": 5
},
"link": "/podcasts/politicalbreakdown",
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"amazon": "https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/e0c2d153-ad36-4c8d-901d-f1da6a724824/political-breakdown",
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"possible": {
"id": "possible",
"title": "Possible",
"info": "Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? Each episode also includes a short fiction story generated by advanced AI GPT-4, serving as a thought-provoking springboard to speculate how humanity could leverage technology for good.",
"airtime": "SUN 2pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Possible-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.possible.fm/",
"meta": {
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"source": "Possible"
},
"link": "/radio/program/possible",
"subscribe": {
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"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/730YpdUSNlMyPQwNnyjp4k"
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},
"pri-the-world": {
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