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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">California faces a big problem in labor law enforcement: when businesses are found to have committed wage theft, many \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">still \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">don’t pay workers what they’re owed. 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It’s just the process doesn’t always work the way it’s supposed to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>There’s only 13 people in the whole state dedicated to helping thousands of these low income workers try to recover that money that the state found their due.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Many businesses that have committed wage theft are often able to avoid settling that debt in California. That’s why officials in Santa Clara County have implemented a local solution to this problem by pushing some local businesses to pay up or lose their right to operate today. How one Bay Area County is helping put money back in the hands of workers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>So I went to downtown Gilroy and it was a couple of months ago.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Farida Jhabvala Romero is a labor correspondent for KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>It was really hot and super sunny, and I met a group of people who were doing outreach work, partnering with the County of Santa Clara to educate food businesses in that area about their responsibilities as employers. And one of them was Melissa Sanchez. I have a.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>For sure for you here to give to the owner, if you don’t mind.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>She would go into businesses and they would, like start chatting. They’re just trying to tell people what’s going on and also let them know about a county program called the Food Permit Enforcement Program and delivering pamphlets about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Melissa Sanchez: \u003c/strong>And your name again? I’m sorry.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ricardo Rivas: \u003c/strong>My name is Ricardo.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Melissa Sanchez: \u003c/strong>Oh, hi, Ricardo. I’m Melissa. Yes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>One of the people she met was Ricardo Rivas. He’s the manager of a restaurant called Tempo Kitchen and Bar. And Ricardo ended up saying he was very interested in attending the the free training and that he wanted to make sure that the restaurant was treating workers fairly. And then he got information about the food permit wage theft enforcement program as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ricardo Rivas: \u003c/strong>There’s so many different things involved with between state and county and federal laws, especially as far as labor goes. So being able to stay compliant with it, ensure that we are treating our workers here fairly and accordance to the law is definitely a major importance for us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So Melissa and the people that you were out there following were really out there trying to reach out to business owners about this program in Santa Clara County. Before we dig into it, what is the problem that this program is trying to solve?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>The county started this program because they’re putting some resources down to try to stem labor violations like wage theft, which is when workers are not paid what they’re owed under the law, like meal and rest breaks and overtime, minimum wage. There’s a state agency that investigates those cases When workers complain, it’s called the labor commissioner’s office. There is a list of cases where the Labor commissioner’s office has found that the worker is owed wages by an employer. But many times workers end up not getting any of that money paid. Statewide, the Labor commissioner’s office told us that there are more than 6500 of these cases of people with unpaid judgments that remain open, totaling more than $85 million. And this process, Ericka, can sometimes take years. The state has a very tiny department. It’s called the Judgment Enforcement Unit. They focused on helping low income workers get money back. They’re super understaffed. They said there were 22 positions statewide and only 13 were filled. That means there’s only 13 people in the whole state dedicated to helping thousands of low income workers try to recover that money. People who don’t want to pay will often move money around or put it in somebody else’s name. Close the business, declare bankruptcy. You know, it can be a really long, you know, process. So a lot of people end up just, you know, never seeing that money ever again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>This has been a problem that a lot of people have been talking about in Santa Clara County. Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Workers rights advocates in the county have been pushing for years to get more local city and county governments involved. The way they see it, as often, there aren’t enough consequences when businesses are found to owe workers wages.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ruth Silver Taube: \u003c/strong>I believe it’s a business model.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Ruth Silver Taube is an attorney who coordinates the Santa Clara County Wage Theft Coalition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ruth Silver Taube: \u003c/strong>There’s a subset of businesses that just don’t want to pay these judgments because they want to make more money for themselves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>So these worker advocates, like they’ve been pushing for more local consequences for businesses who have these unpaid judgments with the labor commissioner’s office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ruth Silver Taube: \u003c/strong>We do need more enforcement that that to me, is a huge problem because even if you win, it doesn’t matter. The worker needs that money. We need that money in the worker’s pockets.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What role exactly is the county playing in this and what are they doing?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>What the county does is they regularly get a list of all these businesses in the states with unpaid judgments. Then they figure out which ones are food businesses with permits in the county. They target the person named in the in the actual judgment. Then they’ll send the business a letter. And if the business doesn’t respond in 45 days, the county can take their permit to operate away.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Jessie Yu: \u003c/strong>The county focuses on food from its because we see a nexus between vulnerable worker populations and a large number of labor violations in the food retail industry.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Jesse Yu heads the county’s Office of Labor Standards Enforcement. The county is in charge of issuing these food permits. So the way they think about it is, well, the businesses need to comply with all the laws, and that includes making sure they don’t have any of these unpaid judgments, that they don’t owe money to the state or workers in the county.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Jessie Yu; \u003c/strong>That’s exactly kind of where we see we fit in is just really complementing and supporting the federal and state process. Because even though a judgment is issued, sometimes the business doesn’t pay. And so we’re hoping to leverage our food permits to ensure that payment happens.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>It’s definitely a very different message when the county is threatening to revoke your permit to operate, you know, you would have to close your business if you don’t have this permit. And so it is creating more local consequences for for these businesses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>As I understand it, this program has actually been pretty successful, it seems like, at getting wages back into the hands of workers. I believe that the number is $125,000. Is that right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Yeah. They’ve said they’ve recovered $125,000 so far. It’s definitely, you know, nothing to sniff out, especially for the workers who were able to actually recover, you know, thousands of dollars on wages they were owed. I did get in touch with workers who got money after the food permit program got involved in their cases, but none of them wanted to speak publicly. You know, they did not want to be quoted because they didn’t want to be associated with a wage dispute. And, you know, sometimes their former employers in the same community had one worker tell me that their employer goes to her church. Businesses that paid these judgments after the food permit enforcement program sent them letters. You know, we’re in touch with them. They also didn’t want to be quoted or identified in the story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Zooming out, Farida, I’m curious how unique a program like this is. The people who follow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Labor enforcement nationally that I talked to said this was a pretty unique program in the sense that the county is actively trying to identify and reach out to businesses doing investigations of their own, sometimes into a business, and also having this big outreach component. So, you know, it sounds like Santa Clara is trying something new. I heard words like innovative, you know, like pretty unique. That’s how people describe the county’s work on this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Are there other cities that have tried to do something like this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Outside of Santa Clara, there’s other types of efforts I’ve seen. Like recently, San Diego County launched a new program called the Workplace Justice Fund. And so what the county is trying to do there is identifying workers who have these unpaid judgments in San Diego County. The county will front them up to $3,000 to help them stabilize financially. And at the same time, the county has its own collections agency, you know, with professional people who do this for a living, you know, And so they’ll take over the workers case, you know, and try to help them recover funds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, what would it take to get something like this going on a larger scale for you to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>I think what would it would take is just counties elsewhere deciding that they they want to try this out. You know, our feeling that this is a big enough problem for them that they that they want to focus on it in this way. You know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Or a big enough priority.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Exactly. Like the situation of of having workers who’ve gone through this system that is supposed to, you know, help them and also help enforce labor laws. It has a bunch of impacts not just for the workers but for the state as well, because these workers are often really low income. They end up relying on food stamps and other programs that are supported with our tax dollars. Then the state also misses out on payroll taxes. And so it affects people in different ways. And then for the businesses, it’s unfair when a business is following the rules and then, you know, has to spend more money on their workforce following the law. And then they’re competing with businesses that are not doing that. And so it’s cheaper for them. So there’s also an issue of fairness. And leveling the playing field for for business owners is how the county and workers rights advocates and and the folks that are doing this outreach to businesses talk about this problem.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Why do you think this is happening now and in this place in particular, Santa Clara County?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>This has been a years long push by people who want to see change on wage theft in this state. It’s the most populous county in the Bay Area. There has been a concerted push there, but also in other parts of the state to get local governments to use their authority to, you know, intervene in this problem, help the state with enforcement of labor laws and see some real change, you know, for for workers who who have been victims of wage theft. And then it also sends a really strong message to businesses in the county and employers that somebody is watching and that there are local consequences.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Farida, thank you so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Farida Jhabvala Romero, a labor correspondent with KQED. This 30-minute conversation with Farida was cut down and edited by producer Maria Esquinca. Alan Montecillo is our senior editor. He scored this episode and added all the tape. And if you haven’t already, please consider leaving The Bay a review on Apple Podcasts. For one, I really like reading them and also it helps other people find our show. The Bay is a production of member supported KQED. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, see you next time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">California faces a big problem in labor law enforcement: when businesses are found to have committed wage theft, many \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">still \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">don’t pay workers what they’re owed. KQED’s Farida Jhabvala Romero tells us how Santa Clara County is implementing a local solution to this statewide issue. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"label": "\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2> \u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. You would think – hope, even – that if you were a victim of wage theft, that there’s a process in place to help you get what you’re owed. And there is a state agency in California set up for that. It’s just the process doesn’t always work the way it’s supposed to.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>There’s only 13 people in the whole state dedicated to helping thousands of these low income workers try to recover that money that the state found their due.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Many businesses that have committed wage theft are often able to avoid settling that debt in California. That’s why officials in Santa Clara County have implemented a local solution to this problem by pushing some local businesses to pay up or lose their right to operate today. How one Bay Area County is helping put money back in the hands of workers.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>So I went to downtown Gilroy and it was a couple of months ago.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Farida Jhabvala Romero is a labor correspondent for KQED.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>It was really hot and super sunny, and I met a group of people who were doing outreach work, partnering with the County of Santa Clara to educate food businesses in that area about their responsibilities as employers. And one of them was Melissa Sanchez. I have a.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>For sure for you here to give to the owner, if you don’t mind.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>She would go into businesses and they would, like start chatting. They’re just trying to tell people what’s going on and also let them know about a county program called the Food Permit Enforcement Program and delivering pamphlets about it.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Melissa Sanchez: \u003c/strong>And your name again? I’m sorry.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ricardo Rivas: \u003c/strong>My name is Ricardo.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Melissa Sanchez: \u003c/strong>Oh, hi, Ricardo. I’m Melissa. Yes.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>One of the people she met was Ricardo Rivas. He’s the manager of a restaurant called Tempo Kitchen and Bar. And Ricardo ended up saying he was very interested in attending the the free training and that he wanted to make sure that the restaurant was treating workers fairly. And then he got information about the food permit wage theft enforcement program as well.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ricardo Rivas: \u003c/strong>There’s so many different things involved with between state and county and federal laws, especially as far as labor goes. So being able to stay compliant with it, ensure that we are treating our workers here fairly and accordance to the law is definitely a major importance for us.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So Melissa and the people that you were out there following were really out there trying to reach out to business owners about this program in Santa Clara County. Before we dig into it, what is the problem that this program is trying to solve?\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>The county started this program because they’re putting some resources down to try to stem labor violations like wage theft, which is when workers are not paid what they’re owed under the law, like meal and rest breaks and overtime, minimum wage. There’s a state agency that investigates those cases When workers complain, it’s called the labor commissioner’s office. There is a list of cases where the Labor commissioner’s office has found that the worker is owed wages by an employer. But many times workers end up not getting any of that money paid. Statewide, the Labor commissioner’s office told us that there are more than 6500 of these cases of people with unpaid judgments that remain open, totaling more than $85 million. And this process, Ericka, can sometimes take years. The state has a very tiny department. It’s called the Judgment Enforcement Unit. They focused on helping low income workers get money back. They’re super understaffed. They said there were 22 positions statewide and only 13 were filled. That means there’s only 13 people in the whole state dedicated to helping thousands of low income workers try to recover that money. People who don’t want to pay will often move money around or put it in somebody else’s name. Close the business, declare bankruptcy. You know, it can be a really long, you know, process. So a lot of people end up just, you know, never seeing that money ever again.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>This has been a problem that a lot of people have been talking about in Santa Clara County. Right.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Workers rights advocates in the county have been pushing for years to get more local city and county governments involved. The way they see it, as often, there aren’t enough consequences when businesses are found to owe workers wages.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ruth Silver Taube: \u003c/strong>I believe it’s a business model.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Ruth Silver Taube is an attorney who coordinates the Santa Clara County Wage Theft Coalition.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ruth Silver Taube: \u003c/strong>There’s a subset of businesses that just don’t want to pay these judgments because they want to make more money for themselves.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>So these worker advocates, like they’ve been pushing for more local consequences for businesses who have these unpaid judgments with the labor commissioner’s office.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ruth Silver Taube: \u003c/strong>We do need more enforcement that that to me, is a huge problem because even if you win, it doesn’t matter. The worker needs that money. We need that money in the worker’s pockets.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What role exactly is the county playing in this and what are they doing?\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>What the county does is they regularly get a list of all these businesses in the states with unpaid judgments. Then they figure out which ones are food businesses with permits in the county. They target the person named in the in the actual judgment. Then they’ll send the business a letter. And if the business doesn’t respond in 45 days, the county can take their permit to operate away.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Jessie Yu: \u003c/strong>The county focuses on food from its because we see a nexus between vulnerable worker populations and a large number of labor violations in the food retail industry.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Jesse Yu heads the county’s Office of Labor Standards Enforcement. The county is in charge of issuing these food permits. So the way they think about it is, well, the businesses need to comply with all the laws, and that includes making sure they don’t have any of these unpaid judgments, that they don’t owe money to the state or workers in the county.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Jessie Yu; \u003c/strong>That’s exactly kind of where we see we fit in is just really complementing and supporting the federal and state process. Because even though a judgment is issued, sometimes the business doesn’t pay. And so we’re hoping to leverage our food permits to ensure that payment happens.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>It’s definitely a very different message when the county is threatening to revoke your permit to operate, you know, you would have to close your business if you don’t have this permit. And so it is creating more local consequences for for these businesses.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>As I understand it, this program has actually been pretty successful, it seems like, at getting wages back into the hands of workers. I believe that the number is $125,000. Is that right?\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Yeah. They’ve said they’ve recovered $125,000 so far. It’s definitely, you know, nothing to sniff out, especially for the workers who were able to actually recover, you know, thousands of dollars on wages they were owed. I did get in touch with workers who got money after the food permit program got involved in their cases, but none of them wanted to speak publicly. You know, they did not want to be quoted because they didn’t want to be associated with a wage dispute. And, you know, sometimes their former employers in the same community had one worker tell me that their employer goes to her church. Businesses that paid these judgments after the food permit enforcement program sent them letters. You know, we’re in touch with them. They also didn’t want to be quoted or identified in the story.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Zooming out, Farida, I’m curious how unique a program like this is. The people who follow.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Labor enforcement nationally that I talked to said this was a pretty unique program in the sense that the county is actively trying to identify and reach out to businesses doing investigations of their own, sometimes into a business, and also having this big outreach component. So, you know, it sounds like Santa Clara is trying something new. I heard words like innovative, you know, like pretty unique. That’s how people describe the county’s work on this.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Are there other cities that have tried to do something like this?\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Outside of Santa Clara, there’s other types of efforts I’ve seen. Like recently, San Diego County launched a new program called the Workplace Justice Fund. And so what the county is trying to do there is identifying workers who have these unpaid judgments in San Diego County. The county will front them up to $3,000 to help them stabilize financially. And at the same time, the county has its own collections agency, you know, with professional people who do this for a living, you know, And so they’ll take over the workers case, you know, and try to help them recover funds.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, what would it take to get something like this going on a larger scale for you to.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>I think what would it would take is just counties elsewhere deciding that they they want to try this out. You know, our feeling that this is a big enough problem for them that they that they want to focus on it in this way. You know.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Or a big enough priority.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Exactly. Like the situation of of having workers who’ve gone through this system that is supposed to, you know, help them and also help enforce labor laws. It has a bunch of impacts not just for the workers but for the state as well, because these workers are often really low income. They end up relying on food stamps and other programs that are supported with our tax dollars. Then the state also misses out on payroll taxes. And so it affects people in different ways. And then for the businesses, it’s unfair when a business is following the rules and then, you know, has to spend more money on their workforce following the law. And then they’re competing with businesses that are not doing that. And so it’s cheaper for them. So there’s also an issue of fairness. And leveling the playing field for for business owners is how the county and workers rights advocates and and the folks that are doing this outreach to businesses talk about this problem.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Why do you think this is happening now and in this place in particular, Santa Clara County?\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>This has been a years long push by people who want to see change on wage theft in this state. It’s the most populous county in the Bay Area. There has been a concerted push there, but also in other parts of the state to get local governments to use their authority to, you know, intervene in this problem, help the state with enforcement of labor laws and see some real change, you know, for for workers who who have been victims of wage theft. And then it also sends a really strong message to businesses in the county and employers that somebody is watching and that there are local consequences.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Farida, thank you so much.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Farida Jhabvala Romero, a labor correspondent with KQED. This 30-minute conversation with Farida was cut down and edited by producer Maria Esquinca. Alan Montecillo is our senior editor. He scored this episode and added all the tape. And if you haven’t already, please consider leaving The Bay a review on Apple Podcasts. For one, I really like reading them and also it helps other people find our show. The Bay is a production of member supported KQED. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, see you next time.\u003c/p> \u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/p>\u003c/div> \u003cp>[ad fullwidth"
},
"numeric": [
"\u003ch2",
"id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode",
"Transcript\u003c/h2>",
"\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">This",
"is",
"a",
"computer-generated",
"transcript.",
"While",
"our",
"team",
"has",
"reviewed",
"it,",
"there",
"may",
"be",
"errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka",
"Cruz",
"Guevarra:",
"\u003c/strong>I’m",
"Ericka",
"Cruz",
"Guevarra,",
"and",
"welcome",
"to",
"The",
"Bay.",
"Local",
"news",
"to",
"keep",
"you",
"rooted.",
"You",
"would",
"think",
"–",
"hope,",
"even",
"–",
"that",
"if",
"you",
"were",
"a",
"victim",
"of",
"wage",
"theft,",
"that",
"there’s",
"a",
"process",
"in",
"place",
"to",
"help",
"you",
"get",
"what",
"you’re",
"owed.",
"And",
"there",
"is",
"a",
"state",
"agency",
"in",
"California",
"set",
"up",
"for",
"that.",
"It’s",
"just",
"the",
"process",
"doesn’t",
"always",
"work",
"the",
"way",
"it’s",
"supposed",
"to.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Farida",
"Jhabvala",
"Romero:",
"\u003c/strong>There’s",
"only",
"13",
"people",
"in",
"the",
"whole",
"state",
"dedicated",
"to",
"helping",
"thousands",
"of",
"these",
"low",
"income",
"workers",
"try",
"to",
"recover",
"that",
"money",
"that",
"the",
"state",
"found",
"their",
"due.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka",
"Cruz",
"Guevarra:",
"\u003c/strong>Many",
"businesses",
"that",
"have",
"committed",
"wage",
"theft",
"are",
"often",
"able",
"to",
"avoid",
"settling",
"that",
"debt",
"in",
"California.",
"That’s",
"why",
"officials",
"in",
"Santa",
"Clara",
"County",
"have",
"implemented",
"a",
"local",
"solution",
"to",
"this",
"problem",
"by",
"pushing",
"some",
"local",
"businesses",
"to",
"pay",
"up",
"or",
"lose",
"their",
"right",
"to",
"operate",
"today.",
"How",
"one",
"Bay",
"Area",
"County",
"is",
"helping",
"put",
"money",
"back",
"in",
"the",
"hands",
"of",
"workers.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Farida",
"Jhabvala",
"Romero:",
"\u003c/strong>So",
"I",
"went",
"to",
"downtown",
"Gilroy",
"and",
"it",
"was",
"a",
"couple",
"of",
"months",
"ago.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka",
"Cruz",
"Guevarra:",
"\u003c/strong>Farida",
"Jhabvala",
"Romero",
"is",
"a",
"labor",
"correspondent",
"for",
"KQED.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Farida",
"Jhabvala",
"Romero:",
"\u003c/strong>It",
"was",
"really",
"hot",
"and",
"super",
"sunny,",
"and",
"I",
"met",
"a",
"group",
"of",
"people",
"who",
"were",
"doing",
"outreach",
"work,",
"partnering",
"with",
"the",
"County",
"of",
"Santa",
"Clara",
"to",
"educate",
"food",
"businesses",
"in",
"that",
"area",
"about",
"their",
"responsibilities",
"as",
"employers.",
"And",
"one",
"of",
"them",
"was",
"Melissa",
"Sanchez.",
"I",
"have",
"a.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka",
"Cruz",
"Guevarra:",
"\u003c/strong>For",
"sure",
"for",
"you",
"here",
"to",
"give",
"to",
"the",
"owner,",
"if",
"you",
"don’t",
"mind.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Farida",
"Jhabvala",
"Romero:",
"\u003c/strong>She",
"would",
"go",
"into",
"businesses",
"and",
"they",
"would,",
"like",
"start",
"chatting.",
"They’re",
"just",
"trying",
"to",
"tell",
"people",
"what’s",
"going",
"on",
"and",
"also",
"let",
"them",
"know",
"about",
"a",
"county",
"program",
"called",
"the",
"Food",
"Permit",
"Enforcement",
"Program",
"and",
"delivering",
"pamphlets",
"about",
"it.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Melissa",
"Sanchez:",
"\u003c/strong>And",
"your",
"name",
"again?",
"I’m",
"sorry.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Ricardo",
"Rivas:",
"\u003c/strong>My",
"name",
"is",
"Ricardo.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Melissa",
"Sanchez:",
"\u003c/strong>Oh,",
"hi,",
"Ricardo.",
"I’m",
"Melissa.",
"Yes.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Farida",
"Jhabvala",
"Romero:",
"\u003c/strong>One",
"of",
"the",
"people",
"she",
"met",
"was",
"Ricardo",
"Rivas.",
"He’s",
"the",
"manager",
"of",
"a",
"restaurant",
"called",
"Tempo",
"Kitchen",
"and",
"Bar.",
"And",
"Ricardo",
"ended",
"up",
"saying",
"he",
"was",
"very",
"interested",
"in",
"attending",
"the",
"the",
"free",
"training",
"and",
"that",
"he",
"wanted",
"to",
"make",
"sure",
"that",
"the",
"restaurant",
"was",
"treating",
"workers",
"fairly.",
"And",
"then",
"he",
"got",
"information",
"about",
"the",
"food",
"permit",
"wage",
"theft",
"enforcement",
"program",
"as",
"well.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Ricardo",
"Rivas:",
"\u003c/strong>There’s",
"so",
"many",
"different",
"things",
"involved",
"with",
"between",
"state",
"and",
"county",
"and",
"federal",
"laws,",
"especially",
"as",
"far",
"as",
"labor",
"goes.",
"So",
"being",
"able",
"to",
"stay",
"compliant",
"with",
"it,",
"ensure",
"that",
"we",
"are",
"treating",
"our",
"workers",
"here",
"fairly",
"and",
"accordance",
"to",
"the",
"law",
"is",
"definitely",
"a",
"major",
"importance",
"for",
"us.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka",
"Cruz",
"Guevarra:",
"\u003c/strong>So",
"Melissa",
"and",
"the",
"people",
"that",
"you",
"were",
"out",
"there",
"following",
"were",
"really",
"out",
"there",
"trying",
"to",
"reach",
"out",
"to",
"business",
"owners",
"about",
"this",
"program",
"in",
"Santa",
"Clara",
"County.",
"Before",
"we",
"dig",
"into",
"it,",
"what",
"is",
"the",
"problem",
"that",
"this",
"program",
"is",
"trying",
"to",
"solve?\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Farida",
"Jhabvala",
"Romero:",
"\u003c/strong>The",
"county",
"started",
"this",
"program",
"because",
"they’re",
"putting",
"some",
"resources",
"down",
"to",
"try",
"to",
"stem",
"labor",
"violations",
"like",
"wage",
"theft,",
"which",
"is",
"when",
"workers",
"are",
"not",
"paid",
"what",
"they’re",
"owed",
"under",
"the",
"law,",
"like",
"meal",
"and",
"rest",
"breaks",
"and",
"overtime,",
"minimum",
"wage.",
"There’s",
"a",
"state",
"agency",
"that",
"investigates",
"those",
"cases",
"When",
"workers",
"complain,",
"it’s",
"called",
"the",
"labor",
"commissioner’s",
"office.",
"There",
"is",
"a",
"list",
"of",
"cases",
"where",
"the",
"Labor",
"commissioner’s",
"office",
"has",
"found",
"that",
"the",
"worker",
"is",
"owed",
"wages",
"by",
"an",
"employer.",
"But",
"many",
"times",
"workers",
"end",
"up",
"not",
"getting",
"any",
"of",
"that",
"money",
"paid.",
"Statewide,",
"the",
"Labor",
"commissioner’s",
"office",
"told",
"us",
"that",
"there",
"are",
"more",
"than",
"6500",
"of",
"these",
"cases",
"of",
"people",
"with",
"unpaid",
"judgments",
"that",
"remain",
"open,",
"totaling",
"more",
"than",
"$85",
"million.",
"And",
"this",
"process,",
"Ericka,",
"can",
"sometimes",
"take",
"years.",
"The",
"state",
"has",
"a",
"very",
"tiny",
"department.",
"It’s",
"called",
"the",
"Judgment",
"Enforcement",
"Unit.",
"They",
"focused",
"on",
"helping",
"low",
"income",
"workers",
"get",
"money",
"back.",
"They’re",
"super",
"understaffed.",
"They",
"said",
"there",
"were",
"22",
"positions",
"statewide",
"and",
"only",
"13",
"were",
"filled.",
"That",
"means",
"there’s",
"only",
"13",
"people",
"in",
"the",
"whole",
"state",
"dedicated",
"to",
"helping",
"thousands",
"of",
"low",
"income",
"workers",
"try",
"to",
"recover",
"that",
"money.",
"People",
"who",
"don’t",
"want",
"to",
"pay",
"will",
"often",
"move",
"money",
"around",
"or",
"put",
"it",
"in",
"somebody",
"else’s",
"name.",
"Close",
"the",
"business,",
"declare",
"bankruptcy.",
"You",
"know,",
"it",
"can",
"be",
"a",
"really",
"long,",
"you",
"know,",
"process.",
"So",
"a",
"lot",
"of",
"people",
"end",
"up",
"just,",
"you",
"know,",
"never",
"seeing",
"that",
"money",
"ever",
"again.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka",
"Cruz",
"Guevarra:",
"\u003c/strong>This",
"has",
"been",
"a",
"problem",
"that",
"a",
"lot",
"of",
"people",
"have",
"been",
"talking",
"about",
"in",
"Santa",
"Clara",
"County.",
"Right.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Farida",
"Jhabvala",
"Romero:",
"\u003c/strong>Workers",
"rights",
"advocates",
"in",
"the",
"county",
"have",
"been",
"pushing",
"for",
"years",
"to",
"get",
"more",
"local",
"city",
"and",
"county",
"governments",
"involved.",
"The",
"way",
"they",
"see",
"it,",
"as",
"often,",
"there",
"aren’t",
"enough",
"consequences",
"when",
"businesses",
"are",
"found",
"to",
"owe",
"workers",
"wages.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Ruth",
"Silver",
"Taube:",
"\u003c/strong>I",
"believe",
"it’s",
"a",
"business",
"model.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Farida",
"Jhabvala",
"Romero:",
"\u003c/strong>Ruth",
"Silver",
"Taube",
"is",
"an",
"attorney",
"who",
"coordinates",
"the",
"Santa",
"Clara",
"County",
"Wage",
"Theft",
"Coalition.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Ruth",
"Silver",
"Taube:",
"\u003c/strong>There’s",
"a",
"subset",
"of",
"businesses",
"that",
"just",
"don’t",
"want",
"to",
"pay",
"these",
"judgments",
"because",
"they",
"want",
"to",
"make",
"more",
"money",
"for",
"themselves.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Farida",
"Jhabvala",
"Romero:",
"\u003c/strong>So",
"these",
"worker",
"advocates,",
"like",
"they’ve",
"been",
"pushing",
"for",
"more",
"local",
"consequences",
"for",
"businesses",
"who",
"have",
"these",
"unpaid",
"judgments",
"with",
"the",
"labor",
"commissioner’s",
"office.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Ruth",
"Silver",
"Taube:",
"\u003c/strong>We",
"do",
"need",
"more",
"enforcement",
"that",
"that",
"to",
"me,",
"is",
"a",
"huge",
"problem",
"because",
"even",
"if",
"you",
"win,",
"it",
"doesn’t",
"matter.",
"The",
"worker",
"needs",
"that",
"money.",
"We",
"need",
"that",
"money",
"in",
"the",
"worker’s",
"pockets.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka",
"Cruz",
"Guevarra:",
"\u003c/strong>What",
"role",
"exactly",
"is",
"the",
"county",
"playing",
"in",
"this",
"and",
"what",
"are",
"they",
"doing?\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Farida",
"Jhabvala",
"Romero:",
"\u003c/strong>What",
"the",
"county",
"does",
"is",
"they",
"regularly",
"get",
"a",
"list",
"of",
"all",
"these",
"businesses",
"in",
"the",
"states",
"with",
"unpaid",
"judgments.",
"Then",
"they",
"figure",
"out",
"which",
"ones",
"are",
"food",
"businesses",
"with",
"permits",
"in",
"the",
"county.",
"They",
"target",
"the",
"person",
"named",
"in",
"the",
"in",
"the",
"actual",
"judgment.",
"Then",
"they’ll",
"send",
"the",
"business",
"a",
"letter.",
"And",
"if",
"the",
"business",
"doesn’t",
"respond",
"in",
"45",
"days,",
"the",
"county",
"can",
"take",
"their",
"permit",
"to",
"operate",
"away.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Jessie",
"Yu:",
"\u003c/strong>The",
"county",
"focuses",
"on",
"food",
"from",
"its",
"because",
"we",
"see",
"a",
"nexus",
"between",
"vulnerable",
"worker",
"populations",
"and",
"a",
"large",
"number",
"of",
"labor",
"violations",
"in",
"the",
"food",
"retail",
"industry.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Farida",
"Jhabvala",
"Romero:",
"\u003c/strong>Jesse",
"Yu",
"heads",
"the",
"county’s",
"Office",
"of",
"Labor",
"Standards",
"Enforcement.",
"The",
"county",
"is",
"in",
"charge",
"of",
"issuing",
"these",
"food",
"permits.",
"So",
"the",
"way",
"they",
"think",
"about",
"it",
"is,",
"well,",
"the",
"businesses",
"need",
"to",
"comply",
"with",
"all",
"the",
"laws,",
"and",
"that",
"includes",
"making",
"sure",
"they",
"don’t",
"have",
"any",
"of",
"these",
"unpaid",
"judgments,",
"that",
"they",
"don’t",
"owe",
"money",
"to",
"the",
"state",
"or",
"workers",
"in",
"the",
"county.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Jessie",
"Yu;",
"\u003c/strong>That’s",
"exactly",
"kind",
"of",
"where",
"we",
"see",
"we",
"fit",
"in",
"is",
"just",
"really",
"complementing",
"and",
"supporting",
"the",
"federal",
"and",
"state",
"process.",
"Because",
"even",
"though",
"a",
"judgment",
"is",
"issued,",
"sometimes",
"the",
"business",
"doesn’t",
"pay.",
"And",
"so",
"we’re",
"hoping",
"to",
"leverage",
"our",
"food",
"permits",
"to",
"ensure",
"that",
"payment",
"happens.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Farida",
"Jhabvala",
"Romero:",
"\u003c/strong>It’s",
"definitely",
"a",
"very",
"different",
"message",
"when",
"the",
"county",
"is",
"threatening",
"to",
"revoke",
"your",
"permit",
"to",
"operate,",
"you",
"know,",
"you",
"would",
"have",
"to",
"close",
"your",
"business",
"if",
"you",
"don’t",
"have",
"this",
"permit.",
"And",
"so",
"it",
"is",
"creating",
"more",
"local",
"consequences",
"for",
"for",
"these",
"businesses.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka",
"Cruz",
"Guevarra:",
"\u003c/strong>As",
"I",
"understand",
"it,",
"this",
"program",
"has",
"actually",
"been",
"pretty",
"successful,",
"it",
"seems",
"like,",
"at",
"getting",
"wages",
"back",
"into",
"the",
"hands",
"of",
"workers.",
"I",
"believe",
"that",
"the",
"number",
"is",
"$125,000.",
"Is",
"that",
"right?\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Farida",
"Jhabvala",
"Romero:",
"\u003c/strong>Yeah.",
"They’ve",
"said",
"they’ve",
"recovered",
"$125,000",
"so",
"far.",
"It’s",
"definitely,",
"you",
"know,",
"nothing",
"to",
"sniff",
"out,",
"especially",
"for",
"the",
"workers",
"who",
"were",
"able",
"to",
"actually",
"recover,",
"you",
"know,",
"thousands",
"of",
"dollars",
"on",
"wages",
"they",
"were",
"owed.",
"I",
"did",
"get",
"in",
"touch",
"with",
"workers",
"who",
"got",
"money",
"after",
"the",
"food",
"permit",
"program",
"got",
"involved",
"in",
"their",
"cases,",
"but",
"none",
"of",
"them",
"wanted",
"to",
"speak",
"publicly.",
"You",
"know,",
"they",
"did",
"not",
"want",
"to",
"be",
"quoted",
"because",
"they",
"didn’t",
"want",
"to",
"be",
"associated",
"with",
"a",
"wage",
"dispute.",
"And,",
"you",
"know,",
"sometimes",
"their",
"former",
"employers",
"in",
"the",
"same",
"community",
"had",
"one",
"worker",
"tell",
"me",
"that",
"their",
"employer",
"goes",
"to",
"her",
"church.",
"Businesses",
"that",
"paid",
"these",
"judgments",
"after",
"the",
"food",
"permit",
"enforcement",
"program",
"sent",
"them",
"letters.",
"You",
"know,",
"we’re",
"in",
"touch",
"with",
"them.",
"They",
"also",
"didn’t",
"want",
"to",
"be",
"quoted",
"or",
"identified",
"in",
"the",
"story.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka",
"Cruz",
"Guevarra:",
"\u003c/strong>Zooming",
"out,",
"Farida,",
"I’m",
"curious",
"how",
"unique",
"a",
"program",
"like",
"this",
"is.",
"The",
"people",
"who",
"follow.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Farida",
"Jhabvala",
"Romero:",
"\u003c/strong>Labor",
"enforcement",
"nationally",
"that",
"I",
"talked",
"to",
"said",
"this",
"was",
"a",
"pretty",
"unique",
"program",
"in",
"the",
"sense",
"that",
"the",
"county",
"is",
"actively",
"trying",
"to",
"identify",
"and",
"reach",
"out",
"to",
"businesses",
"doing",
"investigations",
"of",
"their",
"own,",
"sometimes",
"into",
"a",
"business,",
"and",
"also",
"having",
"this",
"big",
"outreach",
"component.",
"So,",
"you",
"know,",
"it",
"sounds",
"like",
"Santa",
"Clara",
"is",
"trying",
"something",
"new.",
"I",
"heard",
"words",
"like",
"innovative,",
"you",
"know,",
"like",
"pretty",
"unique.",
"That’s",
"how",
"people",
"describe",
"the",
"county’s",
"work",
"on",
"this.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka",
"Cruz",
"Guevarra:",
"\u003c/strong>Are",
"there",
"other",
"cities",
"that",
"have",
"tried",
"to",
"do",
"something",
"like",
"this?\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Farida",
"Jhabvala",
"Romero:",
"\u003c/strong>Outside",
"of",
"Santa",
"Clara,",
"there’s",
"other",
"types",
"of",
"efforts",
"I’ve",
"seen.",
"Like",
"recently,",
"San",
"Diego",
"County",
"launched",
"a",
"new",
"program",
"called",
"the",
"Workplace",
"Justice",
"Fund.",
"And",
"so",
"what",
"the",
"county",
"is",
"trying",
"to",
"do",
"there",
"is",
"identifying",
"workers",
"who",
"have",
"these",
"unpaid",
"judgments",
"in",
"San",
"Diego",
"County.",
"The",
"county",
"will",
"front",
"them",
"up",
"to",
"$3,000",
"to",
"help",
"them",
"stabilize",
"financially.",
"And",
"at",
"the",
"same",
"time,",
"the",
"county",
"has",
"its",
"own",
"collections",
"agency,",
"you",
"know,",
"with",
"professional",
"people",
"who",
"do",
"this",
"for",
"a",
"living,",
"you",
"know,",
"And",
"so",
"they’ll",
"take",
"over",
"the",
"workers",
"case,",
"you",
"know,",
"and",
"try",
"to",
"help",
"them",
"recover",
"funds.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka",
"Cruz",
"Guevarra:",
"\u003c/strong>Well,",
"what",
"would",
"it",
"take",
"to",
"get",
"something",
"like",
"this",
"going",
"on",
"a",
"larger",
"scale",
"for",
"you",
"to.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Farida",
"Jhabvala",
"Romero:",
"\u003c/strong>I",
"think",
"what",
"would",
"it",
"would",
"take",
"is",
"just",
"counties",
"elsewhere",
"deciding",
"that",
"they",
"they",
"want",
"to",
"try",
"this",
"out.",
"You",
"know,",
"our",
"feeling",
"that",
"this",
"is",
"a",
"big",
"enough",
"problem",
"for",
"them",
"that",
"they",
"that",
"they",
"want",
"to",
"focus",
"on",
"it",
"in",
"this",
"way.",
"You",
"know.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka",
"Cruz",
"Guevarra:",
"\u003c/strong>Or",
"a",
"big",
"enough",
"priority.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Farida",
"Jhabvala",
"Romero:",
"\u003c/strong>Exactly.",
"Like",
"the",
"situation",
"of",
"of",
"having",
"workers",
"who’ve",
"gone",
"through",
"this",
"system",
"that",
"is",
"supposed",
"to,",
"you",
"know,",
"help",
"them",
"and",
"also",
"help",
"enforce",
"labor",
"laws.",
"It",
"has",
"a",
"bunch",
"of",
"impacts",
"not",
"just",
"for",
"the",
"workers",
"but",
"for",
"the",
"state",
"as",
"well,",
"because",
"these",
"workers",
"are",
"often",
"really",
"low",
"income.",
"They",
"end",
"up",
"relying",
"on",
"food",
"stamps",
"and",
"other",
"programs",
"that",
"are",
"supported",
"with",
"our",
"tax",
"dollars.",
"Then",
"the",
"state",
"also",
"misses",
"out",
"on",
"payroll",
"taxes.",
"And",
"so",
"it",
"affects",
"people",
"in",
"different",
"ways.",
"And",
"then",
"for",
"the",
"businesses,",
"it’s",
"unfair",
"when",
"a",
"business",
"is",
"following",
"the",
"rules",
"and",
"then,",
"you",
"know,",
"has",
"to",
"spend",
"more",
"money",
"on",
"their",
"workforce",
"following",
"the",
"law.",
"And",
"then",
"they’re",
"competing",
"with",
"businesses",
"that",
"are",
"not",
"doing",
"that.",
"And",
"so",
"it’s",
"cheaper",
"for",
"them.",
"So",
"there’s",
"also",
"an",
"issue",
"of",
"fairness.",
"And",
"leveling",
"the",
"playing",
"field",
"for",
"for",
"business",
"owners",
"is",
"how",
"the",
"county",
"and",
"workers",
"rights",
"advocates",
"and",
"and",
"the",
"folks",
"that",
"are",
"doing",
"this",
"outreach",
"to",
"businesses",
"talk",
"about",
"this",
"problem.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka",
"Cruz",
"Guevarra:",
"\u003c/strong>Why",
"do",
"you",
"think",
"this",
"is",
"happening",
"now",
"and",
"in",
"this",
"place",
"in",
"particular,",
"Santa",
"Clara",
"County?\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Farida",
"Jhabvala",
"Romero:",
"\u003c/strong>This",
"has",
"been",
"a",
"years",
"long",
"push",
"by",
"people",
"who",
"want",
"to",
"see",
"change",
"on",
"wage",
"theft",
"in",
"this",
"state.",
"It’s",
"the",
"most",
"populous",
"county",
"in",
"the",
"Bay",
"Area.",
"There",
"has",
"been",
"a",
"concerted",
"push",
"there,",
"but",
"also",
"in",
"other",
"parts",
"of",
"the",
"state",
"to",
"get",
"local",
"governments",
"to",
"use",
"their",
"authority",
"to,",
"you",
"know,",
"intervene",
"in",
"this",
"problem,",
"help",
"the",
"state",
"with",
"enforcement",
"of",
"labor",
"laws",
"and",
"see",
"some",
"real",
"change,",
"you",
"know,",
"for",
"for",
"workers",
"who",
"who",
"have",
"been",
"victims",
"of",
"wage",
"theft.",
"And",
"then",
"it",
"also",
"sends",
"a",
"really",
"strong",
"message",
"to",
"businesses",
"in",
"the",
"county",
"and",
"employers",
"that",
"somebody",
"is",
"watching",
"and",
"that",
"there",
"are",
"local",
"consequences.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka",
"Cruz",
"Guevarra:",
"\u003c/strong>Well,",
"Farida,",
"thank",
"you",
"so",
"much.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Farida",
"Jhabvala",
"Romero:",
"\u003c/strong>Thank",
"you.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka",
"Cruz",
"Guevarra:",
"\u003c/strong>That",
"was",
"Farida",
"Jhabvala",
"Romero,",
"a",
"labor",
"correspondent",
"with",
"KQED.",
"This",
"30-minute",
"conversation",
"with",
"Farida",
"was",
"cut",
"down",
"and",
"edited",
"by",
"producer",
"Maria",
"Esquinca.",
"Alan",
"Montecillo",
"is",
"our",
"senior",
"editor.",
"He",
"scored",
"this",
"episode",
"and",
"added",
"all",
"the",
"tape.",
"And",
"if",
"you",
"haven’t",
"already,",
"please",
"consider",
"leaving",
"The",
"Bay",
"a",
"review",
"on",
"Apple",
"Podcasts.",
"For",
"one,",
"I",
"really",
"like",
"reading",
"them",
"and",
"also",
"it",
"helps",
"other",
"people",
"find",
"our",
"show.",
"The",
"Bay",
"is",
"a",
"production",
"of",
"member",
"supported",
"KQED.",
"I’m",
"Ericka",
"Cruz",
"Guevarra,",
"see",
"you",
"next",
"time.\u003c/p>",
"\u003cp",
"style=\"font-weight:",
"400\">",
"\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
"\u003cp>[ad",
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"slug": "youre-not-imagining-it-covid-cases-are-up-again",
"title": "You’re Not Imagining It: COVID Cases Are Up Again",
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"headTitle": "You’re Not Imagining It: COVID Cases Are Up Again | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>COVID-19 cases are on the rise (again). But this isn’t the surge of years’ past..it’s more like a “swell”.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We also have more immunity, there are effective treatments, and a new booster is on the way. KQED Health Correspondent Lesley McClurg explains what you need to know about this increase in COVID cases.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC2131796693&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links: \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11957790/the-new-covid-eris-variant-and-rising-cases-what-you-need-to-know\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The New COVID ‘Eris’ Variant and Rising Cases: What You Need to Know\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1984096/wiley-covid-stoked-by-eris-escapes-predictability-once-again\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Fueled by ‘Eris,’ COVID Escapes Predictability Once Again\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. So, it was my birthday this weekend. And as you will, I was just out living life until I found out that someone that I was with now has COVID. And if it seems like everyone is getting COVID again, you’re not imagining it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Listener Call-In: \u003c/strong>I was exposed Friday at a music venue in Marin County. Three days later, started to feel symptoms. We are vaccinated. We are boosted. I think two times we’ve recently gotten over COVID infection.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Listener Call-In: \u003c/strong>My husband and I and my three children, five and under recently got COVID for the first time at the end of June and early July. And now that the kids are back at school and unmasked because that is the way of the world, it seems now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We’re in the middle of another increase in COVID cases here in the Bay Area at a time when restrictions and mandates are long gone. But this virus is still very much part of our lives today. KQED health correspondent Lesley McClurg breaks down this moment in our ever changing relationship with COVID.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Lesley, I feel like we seem to be in this moment again where everyone around us seems to be getting COVID again. Are we in a summer surge summer? What is this? What is happening right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Yeah, exactly. It’s a good question. I would say experts are saying uptick. Swell. Serge tends to kind of make us nervous. And fortunately, we’re not seeing some sort of spike. That’s really quite worrisome. I would say a lot more people are getting COVID right now. I think that’s the fair way to say what’s happening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And how do we know that this is happening? What data are we using at this point?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Basically, all indicators are showing upwards, hospitalizations are going up, wastewater data is going up, as well as test positivity rate is going up. So the number of tests that are showing up positive at hospitals are going up. Those are basically the three ways that you check to see, you know, is is COVID rising? And COVID is definitely rising, I think is also indicative. I heard several experts say, you know, are a lot more people around you getting it? That means it’s in your community. So I think it’s fair to say if if you have friends that are that are testing positive, that that it’s fair to say that you know, it’s around you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, I do know that we don’t have the data that we used to have when it comes to tracking how bad COVID is around us. Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>We have in some ways better indicators than we did at the beginning in that we’re using wastewater data a lot more right now. And wastewater data is, you know, they really track all the dead skin cells and the pee and everything that it’s coming off of us, and they track to see if the virus is in there. So you can get a pretty accurate understanding of how much virus is spreading in a community from the wastewater data. What we don’t have anymore is really accurate testing data. Back in the day, everybody who thought they had COVID went to the hospital because that was the only place to get a test. And those are PCR tests. And so we had really accurate numbers on PCR tests, which is what is federally reported to public health agencies. We don’t have that anymore because people are testing at home more, more people are probably testing now than they were back, you know, in 2020 and 2021 when we didn’t have the accessibility to antigen tests or home tests that we do now. And those tests are not captured in that tally, basically. But we also have hospitalization numbers. So I think we do have a pretty aggregate number of indicators to give us a sense of what’s happening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I feel like I’m I’m losing track of just like which variant we’re on now. So what’s the like, main variant taking hold in this sort of summer swell?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Right now the most prevalent is Eris or XB, but basically these are variations on the same theme of Akron. And what it’s doing to us hasn’t changed that much since basically last winter, except that it’s just becoming a little sneakier in the sense that more contagious, it’s kind of getting past our immunity, but it’s not necessarily making us any sicker. There is another variant that is starting to show up in some parts of the U.S. It’s not in California yet. That’s BA.2.86 or some folks are calling it “Pirola”. And that variant was quite worrisome initially because it demonstrated that it might be more infectious, but we are now seeing that that’s maybe not the case and that it is acting very similar to Eris and maybe again, kind of slipping past our our initial defenses, but still responding to vaccines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So is the take away maybe there when it comes to variants is that none of these are as bad as Delta and Omicron, which were like very scary when they they sort of came out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>I think it’s fair to say that we have better strategies to defend against the virus that is circulating right now. Most people have some sort of built up immunity. 97% of adults have either gotten a vaccine or been exposed to the virus at this point. So we’ve got a defense layer that we didn’t have, you know, back in 2020 or early 2021. And so that’s, you know, keeping us from getting really sick. And the virus is not quite as dangerous. So it’s a combination of those forces.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>If you get COVID now, what is the, I guess, official guidance at this point?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Official guidance is if you have symptoms, test immediately. Find out if you have it and then to isolate for five days. If you start getting really scary symptoms of any kind, then you can go to a hospital. So if you if you have trouble breathing, if your fever spikes, if you’re, you know, really nauseous, then it’s a good idea to seek help from the medical field, you know, maybe go going to the hospital or at least reaching out to your primary physician and seeing if you should get Paxlovid, which is probably the most accessible treatment and showing the most success against the current variant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I think a lot of people and at least me as well, like personally, are still afraid of potentially getting long COVID. What do we know about treatments for long COVID at this point? Have there been any updates on that end?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Unfortunately, we’re not seeing a lot of success there. We’ve spent about $1,000,000,000 on project recover trying to find treatments that will help folks who are suffering from long COVID, which is such a myriad of symptoms. And because it’s such kind of a it’s playing out so differently in different people and it’s kind of a very individual disease, it’s very difficult to have treatments that can really work. So the best advice at this point is to go to specialty clinics and have individual, you know, tailored treatment to your particular symptoms. The best thing to do, you know, to prevent getting long COVID right now is to stay up to date on your COVID booster. It does show that those folks who do get vaccinated do have lower rates of long COVID.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And speaking of a new booster, we’re actually like a few days away from an updated one, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>That is true. So they’re saying kind of mid-September is when it will likely be available. And really those who are at highest risk should get it first. You know, seniors, the folks who are immunocompromised. But the CDC said last week that the booster will be available for everyone. And most folks, you know, all of us have who did get a shot last fall, you know, are up for another one in the sense that your immunity does wane over time. So if you want to prep your system, you know, for this swell and just cold and cold and flu season in general, it’s a good idea to get that booster and you can get in. It is recommended to get that booster with your flu shot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Will this booster protect against the current variants that are in the air right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>It is designed to defend against the most the variants that are circulating most prevalently right now and in recent months. And it does show likely that it will work against the B.A. .2.86 or the Pirola that is just starting to circulate. There is data suggesting that it will work quite well against that one as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And what if you just recently got COVID, Lesley? Like, should you also get this new booster?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Yeah, the latest advice is basically you should definitely wait until you don’t have any more symptoms. Generally, about ten days after you stop having symptoms and then you can get the booster or you can wait to delay about three months. So you should get it sometime this fall. It’s not something you need to run out and get right away.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, I want to ask you about masking, Lesley, because actually there’s a local shop in my community that does require you or is starting to require patrons to wear masks when they come inside. It’s like this really small like store. So, I mean, have any places reinstated mask mandates here in the Bay Area?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>There are a few health care facilities in Northern California. Kaiser Santa Rosa does have a mask requirement. Some Sutter facilities are requiring their health care workers to wear masks later on this fall. Santa Clara County is going to require health care workers to wear masks, so it’s starting to come forward. But outside of health care facilities, it’s generally just recommended and there is no indication that requirements are likely to come back from public health officials.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How would you characterize like where we’re at now? Like, is this still a pandemic? Are we now sort of in this moment where this is just going to be a seasonal illness like everyone’s sort of been saying it would? It would eventually become just like the flu? Like, where are we at now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>It’s endemic. It’s going to be around. I think we passed that threshold a while ago, but all of us feel a little almost like, I don’t know, I feel internally like my gears are not quite clicking in yet in terms of how to assess the risk of COVID. This is the same bug that killed more than a million people in the U.S. and now it it’s not nearly as scary. We can test for it. We do have treatments. We do have vaccines. So we’re in a very different moment. But kind of similarly to how people probably felt after the Spanish flu. There was a fear of this thing for quite some time afterwards. It’s not how we associate and relate to the flu today. Right. And I think we’re in that moment of COVID as well. We’re still kind of figuring out how dangerous this thing is. And it’s very individual in terms of how to assess your risk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Lesley, thank you so much for breaking this down for us. I really appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Lesley McClurg, a health correspondent for KQED. The people you heard from at the top of this show were from a recent episode of KQED’s Forum, which you can catch every weekday from 9 to 11 a.m. on 88.5 FM or wherever you listen to podcasts. This 25-minute conversation with Lesley was cut down and edited by producer Maria Esquinca. Senior editor Alan Montecillo scored it and produced it. Shout out as well to the rest of the podcast squad here at KQED. That’s Jen Chien, our director of podcasts. Katie Sprenger, our podcast operations manager. César Saldaña is our engagement producer, and Holly Kernan is our chief content officer. The Bay is a production of member-supported KQED. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Thanks for listening. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>COVID-19 cases are on the rise (again). But this isn’t the surge of years’ past..it’s more like a “swell”.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We also have more immunity, there are effective treatments, and a new booster is on the way. KQED Health Correspondent Lesley McClurg explains what you need to know about this increase in COVID cases.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC2131796693&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links: \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11957790/the-new-covid-eris-variant-and-rising-cases-what-you-need-to-know\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The New COVID ‘Eris’ Variant and Rising Cases: What You Need to Know\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1984096/wiley-covid-stoked-by-eris-escapes-predictability-once-again\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Fueled by ‘Eris,’ COVID Escapes Predictability Once Again\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. So, it was my birthday this weekend. And as you will, I was just out living life until I found out that someone that I was with now has COVID. And if it seems like everyone is getting COVID again, you’re not imagining it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Listener Call-In: \u003c/strong>I was exposed Friday at a music venue in Marin County. Three days later, started to feel symptoms. We are vaccinated. We are boosted. I think two times we’ve recently gotten over COVID infection.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Listener Call-In: \u003c/strong>My husband and I and my three children, five and under recently got COVID for the first time at the end of June and early July. And now that the kids are back at school and unmasked because that is the way of the world, it seems now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We’re in the middle of another increase in COVID cases here in the Bay Area at a time when restrictions and mandates are long gone. But this virus is still very much part of our lives today. KQED health correspondent Lesley McClurg breaks down this moment in our ever changing relationship with COVID.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Lesley, I feel like we seem to be in this moment again where everyone around us seems to be getting COVID again. Are we in a summer surge summer? What is this? What is happening right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Yeah, exactly. It’s a good question. I would say experts are saying uptick. Swell. Serge tends to kind of make us nervous. And fortunately, we’re not seeing some sort of spike. That’s really quite worrisome. I would say a lot more people are getting COVID right now. I think that’s the fair way to say what’s happening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And how do we know that this is happening? What data are we using at this point?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Basically, all indicators are showing upwards, hospitalizations are going up, wastewater data is going up, as well as test positivity rate is going up. So the number of tests that are showing up positive at hospitals are going up. Those are basically the three ways that you check to see, you know, is is COVID rising? And COVID is definitely rising, I think is also indicative. I heard several experts say, you know, are a lot more people around you getting it? That means it’s in your community. So I think it’s fair to say if if you have friends that are that are testing positive, that that it’s fair to say that you know, it’s around you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, I do know that we don’t have the data that we used to have when it comes to tracking how bad COVID is around us. Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>We have in some ways better indicators than we did at the beginning in that we’re using wastewater data a lot more right now. And wastewater data is, you know, they really track all the dead skin cells and the pee and everything that it’s coming off of us, and they track to see if the virus is in there. So you can get a pretty accurate understanding of how much virus is spreading in a community from the wastewater data. What we don’t have anymore is really accurate testing data. Back in the day, everybody who thought they had COVID went to the hospital because that was the only place to get a test. And those are PCR tests. And so we had really accurate numbers on PCR tests, which is what is federally reported to public health agencies. We don’t have that anymore because people are testing at home more, more people are probably testing now than they were back, you know, in 2020 and 2021 when we didn’t have the accessibility to antigen tests or home tests that we do now. And those tests are not captured in that tally, basically. But we also have hospitalization numbers. So I think we do have a pretty aggregate number of indicators to give us a sense of what’s happening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I feel like I’m I’m losing track of just like which variant we’re on now. So what’s the like, main variant taking hold in this sort of summer swell?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Right now the most prevalent is Eris or XB, but basically these are variations on the same theme of Akron. And what it’s doing to us hasn’t changed that much since basically last winter, except that it’s just becoming a little sneakier in the sense that more contagious, it’s kind of getting past our immunity, but it’s not necessarily making us any sicker. There is another variant that is starting to show up in some parts of the U.S. It’s not in California yet. That’s BA.2.86 or some folks are calling it “Pirola”. And that variant was quite worrisome initially because it demonstrated that it might be more infectious, but we are now seeing that that’s maybe not the case and that it is acting very similar to Eris and maybe again, kind of slipping past our our initial defenses, but still responding to vaccines.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So is the take away maybe there when it comes to variants is that none of these are as bad as Delta and Omicron, which were like very scary when they they sort of came out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>I think it’s fair to say that we have better strategies to defend against the virus that is circulating right now. Most people have some sort of built up immunity. 97% of adults have either gotten a vaccine or been exposed to the virus at this point. So we’ve got a defense layer that we didn’t have, you know, back in 2020 or early 2021. And so that’s, you know, keeping us from getting really sick. And the virus is not quite as dangerous. So it’s a combination of those forces.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>If you get COVID now, what is the, I guess, official guidance at this point?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Official guidance is if you have symptoms, test immediately. Find out if you have it and then to isolate for five days. If you start getting really scary symptoms of any kind, then you can go to a hospital. So if you if you have trouble breathing, if your fever spikes, if you’re, you know, really nauseous, then it’s a good idea to seek help from the medical field, you know, maybe go going to the hospital or at least reaching out to your primary physician and seeing if you should get Paxlovid, which is probably the most accessible treatment and showing the most success against the current variant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I think a lot of people and at least me as well, like personally, are still afraid of potentially getting long COVID. What do we know about treatments for long COVID at this point? Have there been any updates on that end?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Unfortunately, we’re not seeing a lot of success there. We’ve spent about $1,000,000,000 on project recover trying to find treatments that will help folks who are suffering from long COVID, which is such a myriad of symptoms. And because it’s such kind of a it’s playing out so differently in different people and it’s kind of a very individual disease, it’s very difficult to have treatments that can really work. So the best advice at this point is to go to specialty clinics and have individual, you know, tailored treatment to your particular symptoms. The best thing to do, you know, to prevent getting long COVID right now is to stay up to date on your COVID booster. It does show that those folks who do get vaccinated do have lower rates of long COVID.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And speaking of a new booster, we’re actually like a few days away from an updated one, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>That is true. So they’re saying kind of mid-September is when it will likely be available. And really those who are at highest risk should get it first. You know, seniors, the folks who are immunocompromised. But the CDC said last week that the booster will be available for everyone. And most folks, you know, all of us have who did get a shot last fall, you know, are up for another one in the sense that your immunity does wane over time. So if you want to prep your system, you know, for this swell and just cold and cold and flu season in general, it’s a good idea to get that booster and you can get in. It is recommended to get that booster with your flu shot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Will this booster protect against the current variants that are in the air right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>It is designed to defend against the most the variants that are circulating most prevalently right now and in recent months. And it does show likely that it will work against the B.A. .2.86 or the Pirola that is just starting to circulate. There is data suggesting that it will work quite well against that one as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And what if you just recently got COVID, Lesley? Like, should you also get this new booster?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Yeah, the latest advice is basically you should definitely wait until you don’t have any more symptoms. Generally, about ten days after you stop having symptoms and then you can get the booster or you can wait to delay about three months. So you should get it sometime this fall. It’s not something you need to run out and get right away.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, I want to ask you about masking, Lesley, because actually there’s a local shop in my community that does require you or is starting to require patrons to wear masks when they come inside. It’s like this really small like store. So, I mean, have any places reinstated mask mandates here in the Bay Area?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>There are a few health care facilities in Northern California. Kaiser Santa Rosa does have a mask requirement. Some Sutter facilities are requiring their health care workers to wear masks later on this fall. Santa Clara County is going to require health care workers to wear masks, so it’s starting to come forward. But outside of health care facilities, it’s generally just recommended and there is no indication that requirements are likely to come back from public health officials.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How would you characterize like where we’re at now? Like, is this still a pandemic? Are we now sort of in this moment where this is just going to be a seasonal illness like everyone’s sort of been saying it would? It would eventually become just like the flu? Like, where are we at now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>It’s endemic. It’s going to be around. I think we passed that threshold a while ago, but all of us feel a little almost like, I don’t know, I feel internally like my gears are not quite clicking in yet in terms of how to assess the risk of COVID. This is the same bug that killed more than a million people in the U.S. and now it it’s not nearly as scary. We can test for it. We do have treatments. We do have vaccines. So we’re in a very different moment. But kind of similarly to how people probably felt after the Spanish flu. There was a fear of this thing for quite some time afterwards. It’s not how we associate and relate to the flu today. Right. And I think we’re in that moment of COVID as well. We’re still kind of figuring out how dangerous this thing is. And it’s very individual in terms of how to assess your risk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Lesley, thank you so much for breaking this down for us. I really appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Lesley McClurg: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Lesley McClurg, a health correspondent for KQED. The people you heard from at the top of this show were from a recent episode of KQED’s Forum, which you can catch every weekday from 9 to 11 a.m. on 88.5 FM or wherever you listen to podcasts. This 25-minute conversation with Lesley was cut down and edited by producer Maria Esquinca. Senior editor Alan Montecillo scored it and produced it. Shout out as well to the rest of the podcast squad here at KQED. That’s Jen Chien, our director of podcasts. Katie Sprenger, our podcast operations manager. César Saldaña is our engagement producer, and Holly Kernan is our chief content officer. The Bay is a production of member-supported KQED. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Thanks for listening. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"slug": "i-think-of-him-every-day-banko-browns-trans-family-remembers-him",
"title": "'I Think of Him Every Day': A Conversation With Banko Brown's Trans Family",
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"headTitle": "‘I Think of Him Every Day’: A Conversation With Banko Brown’s Trans Family | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11950796/banko-brown-family-files-wrongful-death-lawsuit-against-walgreens-security-company\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Banko Brown\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> was a Black trans man who was shot and killed by a Walgreens security guard in late April. Today, KQED’s Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez interviews three members of Banko Brown’s community from the Young Women’s Freedom Center — Xavier Davenport, Kazani Kalani Finao, and Juju Pikes-Prince — about Brown’s life, and what they believe is necessary for trans people to be truly safe in San Francisco. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode was scored by producer Maria Esquinca.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC3000100033&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links: \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11953821/what-banko-browns-queer-trans-community-says-they-need-for-safety-joy-in-sf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What Banko Brown’s Queer, Trans Community Says They Need for Safety, Joy in SF\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. And welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. What is it going to take to make San Francisco truly safe for trans people? For one, stable housing. According to Our Trans Home SF, one out of two trans people in the city have been unhoused. 70% report being harassed while staying in homeless shelters, making one of the few choices for at least temporary housing unsafe for most trans people. Housing was a necessity that didn’t come easy for Banko Brown, a black trans man shot and killed by a Walgreens security guard on Market Street in April of this year. And for Brown’s chosen family, his queer community in San Francisco. His situation wasn’t unique, but an example of the worst case scenario when stable housing is out of reach.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Homelessness is when you do not have rights to a space of your own. Banko never had a space of his own.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>My colleague and reporter Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez sat down with Banko Brown’s shows and family to discuss life as a homeless queer person in San Francisco. Banko’s life before his death and what it’s going to take to truly make the city a safe place for queer and trans people. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>If you could just very briefly tell me a little bit about yourself. Introduce yourself to folks who are listening with your name, who you are, and your relation to Banko.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>Hello, my name is JuJu. I’m from the Young Woman’s Freedom Center. I’m a youth organizer. I officially met Banko maybe a year ago. But we have– we share relatives. His nieces and nephews are my little cousins. So, I’ve always known Banko, but we never spoke for about a year ago. And that’s when I introduced him to my sister. And he became my sister’s chosen child and I’m the auntie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>I’m Xavier. I met Banko through Young Woman’s Freedom Center. He became my mentee. And that was during the pandemic. We were focused on a lot of projects that were going to empower trans masculinity. I wanted to make sure we had a group during the pandemic, like a peer to peer support group, because the pandemic was very hard for a lot of Transmasculine folks. A lot of them were essential workers. A lot of them were creators that lost jobs. Some of them were sex workers that lost jobs. So my focus was to empower those people and make sure that they were heard. And so Banko would come to those groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>My name’s Kazani. I met Banko through Young Woman’s Freedom as well. We just had amazing, great conversations. Just always sparring with each other, bouncing back with, like, fun ideas. He uses a bright, outgoing apartment. Conversation was always immaculate, always amazing. Of he was a visionary. The struggle not only brought us together, but like I was able to, like, really build a relation with him based on, like, his gifts. He was very creative, his swag, his drip, like he was a trendsetter to me. He’s definitely inspirational to me to like, you know, him, me younger to me, like I always share with him. Like, bro, you give me so much confidence, you give me so much courage for me to be me. He didn’t even know it. But again, he was just natural at that. Whatever I remember of him is his drips, sauce, smile, hugs, goofiness.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>All the jokes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>Hell yeah, hell yeah. He funny, he hella funny. We always was direct. He pushed me to always have hard conversations. Be honest, being honest. And so to have that and to tell somebody yes, to hold me accountable, I’ll take that any day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Banko was in and out of homelessness. And I wonder if you could talk about what was – what the housing situation was like for Banko and what you saw him go through.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>When I first had met Banko, he was housed at some point. Then later on, when we lost another trans sister in the community, Ivory Nicole, that’s when, like, you know, stuff started to come out like, Oh, he’s looking for housing. He has nowhere to go. With only so much a person can do for an individual. It’s hard out here. I’ve been through. But for somebody to sleep on BART and got to blow time just to get it start today. If you go to the center, the $50 gift card or 25 gift card, no one’s gonna ever understand that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>And we were talking about sleeping on Bart. We’re talking about Banko Banko. You said he drifted in and out of it yourself. Can you talk a little bit about homelessness?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>Navigating homelessness in San Francisco is hard. As hard and it’s expensive. No matter way. Being homeless is still expensive. I was homeless for about two years, maybe a year or two years. I didn’t know what to do and it just wasn’t working out. We were living in McGuire. I thought his his parents were going to take a friend, but that wasn’t the case. Then even shelters. Shelters don’t protect you. Shelters don’t protect my people either. Stuff gets stolen. There’s fights that break out. People look at us like we’re nasty. So it’s things like that that we still have to navigate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Have you heard them say that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>Yeah. I mean, I’ve had problems at the outset and you can’t do nothing about it. You don’t lose this part. So it’s one of those things you got to say to sleep, wake up and do something productive. And so you get called for housing and permanent housing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Xavier.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Where do we start?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Well, it would then go first, and then we’ll go on to your own experiences.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Banko never had a space of his own. Banko had been in and out of shelter, in and out of people’s homes, sometimes even some people’s own sorrows. So let’s really break down what that really looks like when you are living in a one room space with another individual. You do not have privacy. Nine times out of ten, being a transmasculine identify person, especially being black, you have to render some type of services to stay there, whether it be sexual, whether it be drugs. So when we talk about black men and being fetishized, Banko dealt with a lot of that. And so those people would be the people to take him in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Here, kind of like not in a long Kazani like like you’ve been there. Have you been there?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>I mean, shit’s hella complex. So, for me personally, couch surfing always been my my survival tactic since I can remember of couch surfing, refusing to go to shelters because of horror stories I heard from former homies of going there and, you know, being violated. My mama, she went to prison when I was right after my fifth grade graduation in 2000. That’s when her body album dropped, too, so that that summer was live. So, you know, like, my mom was big shoes, shoes surviving, too. And so her like being sentenced to prison in state prison, being a young person, I mean, to pick up quick to hustle and survive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>When your mom went to prison, you talk about who who else was there for you, if anyone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>Or family for her immediate family, blood relatives. My mom got nine siblings, eight total that are living. I’m also born and raised in San Francisco when my mom went to prison. They were figuring now they system impacted they in and out of jails allocated. So I just got a bed in somebody’s house or whatever that looks like in that moment. I just had to make sure I had to protect myself, take care of the things I have for the moment, and just keep trying to get through at 11 years old.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>And can we talk a little bit about Banko in terms of the safety? You know, obviously Banko went through the least safe thing you could imagine with the most terrible outcome you can imagine. What was Banko experiencing in terms of safety during this whole process?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Banko was actually experiencing a lot of issues with violence happening in some of the places that he was trying to stay at. Nobody’s perfect, you know, especially when we’re talking about community, right? People have all kinds of issues and trauma that they are that they’re trying to live through as well. I definitely know that there were a few times where, you know, he was upset from violent experiences that had taken place. And what we all do, right, we get upset. We want to do something about it. So, you know, really trying to calm him down to, like, see a different side of it, for him to just move through the trauma that he was experiencing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Yeah. And I don’t know how much you all followed kind of the public discussion of what happened to Banko afterwards. A lot of what I heard was a kind of a questioning of like, what did Bianca’s trans identity or black trans identity have to do with the shooting, especially when the security guard themselves was was black. I wonder if you could talk a bit about for people who don’t understand what does Mango’s black trans identity have to do with what brought him there that day and what happened? And whoever wants to jump in idea or something.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So this is Xavier or what? What what that all has to do with is when you are a young, black, transmasculine identified person, people see that he walks in, he’s dark skinned, he has a hat on a t shirt, he has a little bit of a like a goatee or, you know, something growing in. And as another black man or being another man, there is a fight for power for who is the man for Banko. You know, the thought process is you look like a little boy or you’re trying to pretend to be a little boy. Because let’s be clear, Banko had not had, you know, top surgery. He had not been going through that part of of medical transitioning. So you have a masculine person with visible breast coming at you. You are going to now struggle for your manhood. I’m going to show you who’s boss is something that for people that are even lesbians who are more masculine looking. There is a struggle between men and any form of masculinity that they can see to them isn’t necessarily real.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>So it’s a it’s like a challenge.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>It is a challenge. It very much is a challenge. I know this first experience. I have dealt with this my entire life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>And if I can just highlight that it’s true. And these are cases that’s not getting covered. And this is Juju speaking of Black Trans Men getting killed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>I wonder if we can shift a little. I do want to know how that support can come through from family. Are you at a point of acceptance with your family right now and if you could touch on that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Me and my mother understand what’s happening, but my father and my my siblings that my father has. They’re not. They were only produced by my father. My father’s children. They have a bit of a hard time. And so we don’t necessarily talk the way that people would think family should or relatives should. But, you know, my mother respects who I am. My mother understands what has what has taken place. And she’s accepted that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>I mean. Then if they’re very understanding our friends there with ties. But when I told my mom everything and broke it down that you don’t want to be a child, right. This kind of anything, you have to take a step back. My father, on the other hand, he’s more big on education. He didn’t. He taught him. He taught me, You don’t care what I do. He wants me to graduate and I’ll ever be like, so-and-so. I got it. You’ve been away. But I still had a heart and I still struggle. Identity came into play. I mean, it was still some some things going on at home. She understood. She knew, like, okay, as long as you’re safe, you know what? The protocols lie, you know, And I love you. I just I want to say this, too, because there was narratives being painted. Banko do have family that do care and love. But there was, you know, at some point everyone went their own ways. So I do want to just that on the record. He did have family that they can’t love, but he was looking for looking for a space. In people’s hearts to fill that void that he has been missing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>This goes on for me. My mother, she told me straight up, like, be you, son. Be you, son. And for me, that’s a fucking privilege. Like, you know, for someone who’s being who they are, like me, like for my mom to just show up right away. How she was able to just accept me. For me, it was just like a restart of our relationship as a as a mother and son. She’s just a gift to me, you know? And so what I’ve been doing with my folks is just like, sharing my mama with them. You know, share my mama with them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>When you mean to share your mama, do you mean you share your mother with other transpeople who don’t have that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>Trans people, all people, even when they struggle like my mom just signs up like, I love you, I forgive you. And so I share my mama with my folks. And it’s my duty to make sure to create spaces for folks to be themselves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>What I want to ask you all lastly was about joy, because we’ve been talking about hardship. We’ve been talking about really hard things. But the goal is joy, right? I mean, let’s talk about the mechanical and let’s talk about the heart to the mechanical part is if you had these city leaders who are all talking about what happened to Banko, what would you say needs to change? And then after that, I want you to tell me what your joy looks like.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I’ll start this, Xavier. I would say what needs to change is the systems in how they construct homelessness. There needs to be shelters specific for transmasculine folks. There needs to be shelters for trans people, period. But trans men need their own space. There needs to be more black, trans masculine leaders. There’s nobody else that can speak about black transness except for black trans people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>And how about the joy? What is your joy look like right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>My joy looks like, you know the rest of the work that I do. The Bay Area Transmasculine calendar is doing a second premiere of a calendar that we started last year with a group of Transmasculine folks to continue to ensure that Transmasculine folks are seen and can receive joy in seeing and having representation of themselves in all bodies, in all forms of trans masculine bodies, and in all forms of trans masculine and different cultures and ethnicities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>That’s beautiful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>Did you figuring out the funding, figuring out where money can go to? I definitely believe that there should be more programs for black trans men, even from our community. My film Queens My Doors. We need to serve our queens, our triumph queens if I’m getting emotional. And it’s because I’m thinking about the joy part living and finding purpose. Picking up someone else’s purpose when they couldn’t find their purpose. And knowing that I’m here and I can also at least set some type of story for someone just to save surface and hopefully help another next person, next generation to continue to do this advocacy work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Because any changes you want to see and then tell us about your joy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>More action. People need to really start, especially like these politicians. Folks move in and power like really, really start, you know, on the ground and get dirty with us. All the years of just all the years I’ve been living in living in the city, I have not seen nothing that has been pivotal yet, specifically tailored to supporting trans people of color, people that are our natives, the first couple folks that are still here. There’s so many things that we need. So many corporations as are going out to rent something, hotels that’s going to manage or that how do we take those metro shelters, make an independent living for folks without all the stipulations and the requirements, because that’s overwhelming for our people to having to jump through these hoops and things and having to retraumatize ourselves just to get a fucking bed. Come on, now, we’ve got to really redefine what a sanctuary in San Francisco. As for my joy. I really love what you said. You, you know, picking up somebody else’s purpose. And this moment, that’s what it is for me personally. Is it bringing up some of the joys, the joy and the beauty that I learned about Banko and where he was dreaming of envisioning of, and how do you incorporate it not just in the individual people, but in community, in people, in organizations, in how we just do life and learn how to grieve and love myself at the same time. Because I have to say he is not the last person. And so while I’m still here, I’m building on my armor because I’m doing God’s work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>So would you say that Banko has influenced where your life is going?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>I think about his nieces and nephews. I really do every day. I wake up and you say their names and how they’re having a great day in the moment. That’s how I carry you. And that’s what I think of him every day. Because, again, trans people being here and we’re won’t keep coming here. Like it or not, you want to get on board whether you like it or not. We still here? We are forever going to be here. We take care of the village.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was KQED reporter Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez in conversation with Xavier Davenport. JuJu Pikes-Prince and Kazani Kalani Finao. Their conversation was cut down and edited by producer Maria Esquinca. It was edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. The Bay is a production of KQED in San Francisco. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Talk to you next time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11950796/banko-brown-family-files-wrongful-death-lawsuit-against-walgreens-security-company\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Banko Brown\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> was a Black trans man who was shot and killed by a Walgreens security guard in late April. Today, KQED’s Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez interviews three members of Banko Brown’s community from the Young Women’s Freedom Center — Xavier Davenport, Kazani Kalani Finao, and Juju Pikes-Prince — about Brown’s life, and what they believe is necessary for trans people to be truly safe in San Francisco. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode was scored by producer Maria Esquinca.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC3000100033&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links: \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11953821/what-banko-browns-queer-trans-community-says-they-need-for-safety-joy-in-sf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What Banko Brown’s Queer, Trans Community Says They Need for Safety, Joy in SF\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. And welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. What is it going to take to make San Francisco truly safe for trans people? For one, stable housing. According to Our Trans Home SF, one out of two trans people in the city have been unhoused. 70% report being harassed while staying in homeless shelters, making one of the few choices for at least temporary housing unsafe for most trans people. Housing was a necessity that didn’t come easy for Banko Brown, a black trans man shot and killed by a Walgreens security guard on Market Street in April of this year. And for Brown’s chosen family, his queer community in San Francisco. His situation wasn’t unique, but an example of the worst case scenario when stable housing is out of reach.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Homelessness is when you do not have rights to a space of your own. Banko never had a space of his own.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>My colleague and reporter Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez sat down with Banko Brown’s shows and family to discuss life as a homeless queer person in San Francisco. Banko’s life before his death and what it’s going to take to truly make the city a safe place for queer and trans people. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>If you could just very briefly tell me a little bit about yourself. Introduce yourself to folks who are listening with your name, who you are, and your relation to Banko.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>Hello, my name is JuJu. I’m from the Young Woman’s Freedom Center. I’m a youth organizer. I officially met Banko maybe a year ago. But we have– we share relatives. His nieces and nephews are my little cousins. So, I’ve always known Banko, but we never spoke for about a year ago. And that’s when I introduced him to my sister. And he became my sister’s chosen child and I’m the auntie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>I’m Xavier. I met Banko through Young Woman’s Freedom Center. He became my mentee. And that was during the pandemic. We were focused on a lot of projects that were going to empower trans masculinity. I wanted to make sure we had a group during the pandemic, like a peer to peer support group, because the pandemic was very hard for a lot of Transmasculine folks. A lot of them were essential workers. A lot of them were creators that lost jobs. Some of them were sex workers that lost jobs. So my focus was to empower those people and make sure that they were heard. And so Banko would come to those groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>My name’s Kazani. I met Banko through Young Woman’s Freedom as well. We just had amazing, great conversations. Just always sparring with each other, bouncing back with, like, fun ideas. He uses a bright, outgoing apartment. Conversation was always immaculate, always amazing. Of he was a visionary. The struggle not only brought us together, but like I was able to, like, really build a relation with him based on, like, his gifts. He was very creative, his swag, his drip, like he was a trendsetter to me. He’s definitely inspirational to me to like, you know, him, me younger to me, like I always share with him. Like, bro, you give me so much confidence, you give me so much courage for me to be me. He didn’t even know it. But again, he was just natural at that. Whatever I remember of him is his drips, sauce, smile, hugs, goofiness.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>All the jokes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>Hell yeah, hell yeah. He funny, he hella funny. We always was direct. He pushed me to always have hard conversations. Be honest, being honest. And so to have that and to tell somebody yes, to hold me accountable, I’ll take that any day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Banko was in and out of homelessness. And I wonder if you could talk about what was – what the housing situation was like for Banko and what you saw him go through.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>When I first had met Banko, he was housed at some point. Then later on, when we lost another trans sister in the community, Ivory Nicole, that’s when, like, you know, stuff started to come out like, Oh, he’s looking for housing. He has nowhere to go. With only so much a person can do for an individual. It’s hard out here. I’ve been through. But for somebody to sleep on BART and got to blow time just to get it start today. If you go to the center, the $50 gift card or 25 gift card, no one’s gonna ever understand that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>And we were talking about sleeping on Bart. We’re talking about Banko Banko. You said he drifted in and out of it yourself. Can you talk a little bit about homelessness?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>Navigating homelessness in San Francisco is hard. As hard and it’s expensive. No matter way. Being homeless is still expensive. I was homeless for about two years, maybe a year or two years. I didn’t know what to do and it just wasn’t working out. We were living in McGuire. I thought his his parents were going to take a friend, but that wasn’t the case. Then even shelters. Shelters don’t protect you. Shelters don’t protect my people either. Stuff gets stolen. There’s fights that break out. People look at us like we’re nasty. So it’s things like that that we still have to navigate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Have you heard them say that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>Yeah. I mean, I’ve had problems at the outset and you can’t do nothing about it. You don’t lose this part. So it’s one of those things you got to say to sleep, wake up and do something productive. And so you get called for housing and permanent housing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Xavier.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Where do we start?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Well, it would then go first, and then we’ll go on to your own experiences.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Banko never had a space of his own. Banko had been in and out of shelter, in and out of people’s homes, sometimes even some people’s own sorrows. So let’s really break down what that really looks like when you are living in a one room space with another individual. You do not have privacy. Nine times out of ten, being a transmasculine identify person, especially being black, you have to render some type of services to stay there, whether it be sexual, whether it be drugs. So when we talk about black men and being fetishized, Banko dealt with a lot of that. And so those people would be the people to take him in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Here, kind of like not in a long Kazani like like you’ve been there. Have you been there?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>I mean, shit’s hella complex. So, for me personally, couch surfing always been my my survival tactic since I can remember of couch surfing, refusing to go to shelters because of horror stories I heard from former homies of going there and, you know, being violated. My mama, she went to prison when I was right after my fifth grade graduation in 2000. That’s when her body album dropped, too, so that that summer was live. So, you know, like, my mom was big shoes, shoes surviving, too. And so her like being sentenced to prison in state prison, being a young person, I mean, to pick up quick to hustle and survive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>When your mom went to prison, you talk about who who else was there for you, if anyone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>Or family for her immediate family, blood relatives. My mom got nine siblings, eight total that are living. I’m also born and raised in San Francisco when my mom went to prison. They were figuring now they system impacted they in and out of jails allocated. So I just got a bed in somebody’s house or whatever that looks like in that moment. I just had to make sure I had to protect myself, take care of the things I have for the moment, and just keep trying to get through at 11 years old.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>And can we talk a little bit about Banko in terms of the safety? You know, obviously Banko went through the least safe thing you could imagine with the most terrible outcome you can imagine. What was Banko experiencing in terms of safety during this whole process?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Banko was actually experiencing a lot of issues with violence happening in some of the places that he was trying to stay at. Nobody’s perfect, you know, especially when we’re talking about community, right? People have all kinds of issues and trauma that they are that they’re trying to live through as well. I definitely know that there were a few times where, you know, he was upset from violent experiences that had taken place. And what we all do, right, we get upset. We want to do something about it. So, you know, really trying to calm him down to, like, see a different side of it, for him to just move through the trauma that he was experiencing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Yeah. And I don’t know how much you all followed kind of the public discussion of what happened to Banko afterwards. A lot of what I heard was a kind of a questioning of like, what did Bianca’s trans identity or black trans identity have to do with the shooting, especially when the security guard themselves was was black. I wonder if you could talk a bit about for people who don’t understand what does Mango’s black trans identity have to do with what brought him there that day and what happened? And whoever wants to jump in idea or something.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So this is Xavier or what? What what that all has to do with is when you are a young, black, transmasculine identified person, people see that he walks in, he’s dark skinned, he has a hat on a t shirt, he has a little bit of a like a goatee or, you know, something growing in. And as another black man or being another man, there is a fight for power for who is the man for Banko. You know, the thought process is you look like a little boy or you’re trying to pretend to be a little boy. Because let’s be clear, Banko had not had, you know, top surgery. He had not been going through that part of of medical transitioning. So you have a masculine person with visible breast coming at you. You are going to now struggle for your manhood. I’m going to show you who’s boss is something that for people that are even lesbians who are more masculine looking. There is a struggle between men and any form of masculinity that they can see to them isn’t necessarily real.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>So it’s a it’s like a challenge.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>It is a challenge. It very much is a challenge. I know this first experience. I have dealt with this my entire life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>And if I can just highlight that it’s true. And these are cases that’s not getting covered. And this is Juju speaking of Black Trans Men getting killed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>I wonder if we can shift a little. I do want to know how that support can come through from family. Are you at a point of acceptance with your family right now and if you could touch on that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Me and my mother understand what’s happening, but my father and my my siblings that my father has. They’re not. They were only produced by my father. My father’s children. They have a bit of a hard time. And so we don’t necessarily talk the way that people would think family should or relatives should. But, you know, my mother respects who I am. My mother understands what has what has taken place. And she’s accepted that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>I mean. Then if they’re very understanding our friends there with ties. But when I told my mom everything and broke it down that you don’t want to be a child, right. This kind of anything, you have to take a step back. My father, on the other hand, he’s more big on education. He didn’t. He taught him. He taught me, You don’t care what I do. He wants me to graduate and I’ll ever be like, so-and-so. I got it. You’ve been away. But I still had a heart and I still struggle. Identity came into play. I mean, it was still some some things going on at home. She understood. She knew, like, okay, as long as you’re safe, you know what? The protocols lie, you know, And I love you. I just I want to say this, too, because there was narratives being painted. Banko do have family that do care and love. But there was, you know, at some point everyone went their own ways. So I do want to just that on the record. He did have family that they can’t love, but he was looking for looking for a space. In people’s hearts to fill that void that he has been missing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>This goes on for me. My mother, she told me straight up, like, be you, son. Be you, son. And for me, that’s a fucking privilege. Like, you know, for someone who’s being who they are, like me, like for my mom to just show up right away. How she was able to just accept me. For me, it was just like a restart of our relationship as a as a mother and son. She’s just a gift to me, you know? And so what I’ve been doing with my folks is just like, sharing my mama with them. You know, share my mama with them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>When you mean to share your mama, do you mean you share your mother with other transpeople who don’t have that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>Trans people, all people, even when they struggle like my mom just signs up like, I love you, I forgive you. And so I share my mama with my folks. And it’s my duty to make sure to create spaces for folks to be themselves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>What I want to ask you all lastly was about joy, because we’ve been talking about hardship. We’ve been talking about really hard things. But the goal is joy, right? I mean, let’s talk about the mechanical and let’s talk about the heart to the mechanical part is if you had these city leaders who are all talking about what happened to Banko, what would you say needs to change? And then after that, I want you to tell me what your joy looks like.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I’ll start this, Xavier. I would say what needs to change is the systems in how they construct homelessness. There needs to be shelters specific for transmasculine folks. There needs to be shelters for trans people, period. But trans men need their own space. There needs to be more black, trans masculine leaders. There’s nobody else that can speak about black transness except for black trans people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>And how about the joy? What is your joy look like right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Xavier Davenport: \u003c/strong>My joy looks like, you know the rest of the work that I do. The Bay Area Transmasculine calendar is doing a second premiere of a calendar that we started last year with a group of Transmasculine folks to continue to ensure that Transmasculine folks are seen and can receive joy in seeing and having representation of themselves in all bodies, in all forms of trans masculine bodies, and in all forms of trans masculine and different cultures and ethnicities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>That’s beautiful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>JuJu Pikes-Prince: \u003c/strong>Did you figuring out the funding, figuring out where money can go to? I definitely believe that there should be more programs for black trans men, even from our community. My film Queens My Doors. We need to serve our queens, our triumph queens if I’m getting emotional. And it’s because I’m thinking about the joy part living and finding purpose. Picking up someone else’s purpose when they couldn’t find their purpose. And knowing that I’m here and I can also at least set some type of story for someone just to save surface and hopefully help another next person, next generation to continue to do this advocacy work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>Because any changes you want to see and then tell us about your joy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>More action. People need to really start, especially like these politicians. Folks move in and power like really, really start, you know, on the ground and get dirty with us. All the years of just all the years I’ve been living in living in the city, I have not seen nothing that has been pivotal yet, specifically tailored to supporting trans people of color, people that are our natives, the first couple folks that are still here. There’s so many things that we need. So many corporations as are going out to rent something, hotels that’s going to manage or that how do we take those metro shelters, make an independent living for folks without all the stipulations and the requirements, because that’s overwhelming for our people to having to jump through these hoops and things and having to retraumatize ourselves just to get a fucking bed. Come on, now, we’ve got to really redefine what a sanctuary in San Francisco. As for my joy. I really love what you said. You, you know, picking up somebody else’s purpose. And this moment, that’s what it is for me personally. Is it bringing up some of the joys, the joy and the beauty that I learned about Banko and where he was dreaming of envisioning of, and how do you incorporate it not just in the individual people, but in community, in people, in organizations, in how we just do life and learn how to grieve and love myself at the same time. Because I have to say he is not the last person. And so while I’m still here, I’m building on my armor because I’m doing God’s work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez: \u003c/strong>So would you say that Banko has influenced where your life is going?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kazani Kalani Finao: \u003c/strong>I think about his nieces and nephews. I really do every day. I wake up and you say their names and how they’re having a great day in the moment. That’s how I carry you. And that’s what I think of him every day. Because, again, trans people being here and we’re won’t keep coming here. Like it or not, you want to get on board whether you like it or not. We still here? We are forever going to be here. We take care of the village.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was KQED reporter Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez in conversation with Xavier Davenport. JuJu Pikes-Prince and Kazani Kalani Finao. Their conversation was cut down and edited by producer Maria Esquinca. It was edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. The Bay is a production of KQED in San Francisco. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Talk to you next time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"slug": "are-the-redwood-trees-ok",
"title": "Are the Redwood Trees OK?",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On this Labor Day weekend, we’re sharing an episode from KQED’s Bay Curious podcast about what’s happening to our state’s iconic redwood trees, and how we can support them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC3075408303&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11953504/the-bay-areas-famous-redwood-trees-are-struggling\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">originally published on June 22, 2023.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. California’s redwood trees are iconic. I mean, people travel from far away on long weekends like this one just to stand at their base, look up, and admire their magic. But right now, these amazing trees are struggling. And they could use our help. So, today, KQED’s \u003cem>Bay Curious\u003c/em> – a show that answers listener questions about the Bay Area – dives deep into what’s happening to our redwoods and what we can do to support them. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Julie Menter and her husband moved into a house in Oakland in 2017. There were lots of things they loved about their new home, but especially the three big redwood trees in the backyard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Julie Menter: \u003c/strong>It feels like it’s a really big part of the identity to me of the city of Oakland. Like if you look at the hills and the trees…being able to go in nature while being in a city feels really important to me for my mental health and balance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Last year, Julie started to worry about the trees. One of them had lost almost all of its leaves and, despite watering it, it wasn’t bouncing back. It had to come down.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Julie Menter: \u003c/strong>It’s so sad. And I think it’s sad both for the tree because, you know, they’re such beautiful trees, they’re so old and majestic. But also scary to be like, “Whoa, this tree is not doing well, the one next to it isn’t, the ones in my neighborhood don’t seem to be doing well.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Julie’s noticed not just in her backyard, but all around Oakland, redwood trees don’t look so good. Around her neighborhood… off highways… really all over the East Bay, Julie has noticed the trees looking dry and scraggly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Julie Menter: \u003c/strong>So I’m wondering, is something happening to the redwood trees in the Bay Area? And if so, what is it and is there anything we can do about it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>I’m Olivia Allen-Price and this is Bay Curious. Today on the show, we’re tackling California’s state tree: the coast redwood. We’ll dig into why it’s unique to this area, what makes it so special… and also how it’s adapting to challenges like climate change and urbanization. Stick around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>We sent reporter and redwood tree enthusiast Dana Cronin out to answer Julie’s question about what’s up with the redwoods…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>Sound of walking through a forest \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>There’s a really special feeling I get every time I walk through a redwood forest. My mind goes quiet, the only audible sound coming from the crunch of my footsteps. The temperature is always perfect; even on the hottest day, it’s still cool among the trees. And the smell.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin (in scene)\u003c/strong>: It smells so good. There’s just no, like, even just stepping outside of my car in the parking lot, I was like (breathes in, breathes out) It’s just so good.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>I’m in the middle of the Roberts Redwood Recreational forest in the Oakland hills… hiking with Deborah Ziertan, who works for Save the Redwoods League. She’s gonna help me teach you all about redwood trees and why they’re unique to our region. Then, later on, we’ll get to the heart of Julie’s question … what’s happening to them? And just a note – for this episode we’ll mostly focus on coastal redwoods, which grow no more than 50 miles from the coastline. Now, Deborah grew up here in Oakland and visited these redwoods frequently as a kid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Deborah Ziertan: \u003c/strong>I don’t think I fully appreciated the redwoods until I went away to school and then came back as an adult. And this was the place that I would hike to clear my head. And these were the forests that I came to. And so it is a very special place for me here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Deborah has now dedicated her life to these trees. She’s an educator with Save the Redwoods League. Her job is to teach school-aged kids about them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>Sounds of children in a forest \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Deborah Ziertan: \u003c/strong>Good morning students! \u003cstrong>Students: \u003c/strong>Good morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>I tagged along recently with Deborah, as she guided about thirty fifth graders from a local elementary school through the Reinhardt Redwood\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">Regional Park. The students are spread out across three wooden picnic tables, fidgeting in their seats.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Deborah Ziertan:\u003c/strong>Can I have everyone’s eyes up here? Ok. Will everyone look up and take a look? We are in a little redwood grove. So these are all redwood trees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>After setting a few ground rules… no touching plants… be quiet while others are talking… Miss Deborah — as they call her — launches into the lesson.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Deborah Ziertan: \u003c/strong>Do you know anything about redwood trees at all? Raise your hand if you know anything about redwoods.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>A student’s hand shoots up.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Deborah Ziertan: \u003c/strong>Yes. They are really tall. They are. Redwoods are the tallest tree\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">in the whole entire world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Redwood trees can grow more than 300 feet tall. That’s taller than a 30-story skyscraper. And not only are they the tallest tree in the world, they’re also among the biggest. Their trucks can grow nearly 30 feet wide. So, how are they able to get so big?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Deborah Ziertan: \u003c/strong>So everyone do this with your arms. It’s okay if you kind of lightly touch your neighbors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Deborah holds her arms out straight to the sides, like a scarecrow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Deborah Ziertan: \u003c/strong>One of the things that makes redwoods so unique is that they actually hold hands with their roots underneath the ground, and that’s how they’re able to grow to be so tall and not fall down is that they help each other.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Redwood roots are shallow and extend outward instead of down. Their roots extend out almost as far as the tree is tall … and they essentially hold each other up. In addition to being really big… redwoods can also live a very long\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">time… like more than 2,000 years. That means some coastal redwoods today were alive during the Roman Empire. Those old-growth redwoods, which now only account for 5 percent of all redwood trees, can store more carbon than any other forest on the planet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Deborah Ziertan: \u003c/strong>So we are pretty lucky to have redwood trees here in Oakland. And people travel from all over the world to come and see redwood trees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>Magical sounding music \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Redwood trees also have unique ways of reproducing. They produce seeds, like any other tree, but they can also sprout new trees from their roots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Deborah Ziertan: \u003c/strong>So often redwood trees, you will find them in circles that we call fairy rings. Because if a parent tree gets hurt or injured, it will send out these baby sprouts into these circles. And it’s kind of like a little family growing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>They’re basically clones of their parents. That’s why you rarely see redwood trees standing alone, and more often see them together in a circle formation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Deborah tells the students we can learn a lot from redwood trees. They exist in communities and rely on each other for support. They have hard exteriors that protect them from things like wildfires, but they’re soft on the inside. Deborah says… they’re not so different from us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>Music ends \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>The earliest redwood trees existed more than 200 million years ago… alongside dinosaurs in the Jurassic period. Their natural range has shrunk a lot in that time… now they mostly stretch up and down the northern California coast… as far north as the Oregon border and down to about Big Sur.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Their distribution tracks with another iconic California phenomenon… coastal fog. So, in the summer months, when there’s a lack of rainfall, redwood trees essentially drink the fog.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Deborah Ziertan: \u003c/strong>It’s almost like a sponge sucking in that water. And then when their needles get full, also like a sponge, any of that excess water will drip to the ground. And it’s almost as if they’re creating their own rain.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>And they’ve adapted to this region in other ways, too. They’re highly adapted to fire. Take the 2020 CZU Lightning Complex fire, for example, which burned through most of Big Basin Redwoods near Santa Cruz. Three years later, that forest is green again… and the old-growth redwood trees there are still standing strong.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Redwoods also survived a period of severe logging in the late 18-hundreds when, after the Gold Rush, San Francisco was booming and timber was in high demand. Many trees didn’t survive, though. In fact, most of the trees now living in the Oakland hills are ones that have grown since that period of logging… young, by redwoods standards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Luckily, a movement was underway to protect redwood forests. Save the Redwoods League… where Deborah works… was founded in 1918… and helped to accelerate the preservation of redwood trees across Northern California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Deborah Ziertan: \u003c/strong>People started to see the value in recreation and see the value in these trees not as lumber, but for health and wellness and for preservation purposes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>Music in \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>But now they’re facing new challenges. As our question-asker Julie noticed… Redwood trees in the Bay Area are struggling.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Todd Dawson: \u003c/strong>If you walk and you look up now, in most urban areas, I think everybody can pretty much see that, you know, there’s some tops that are dying back. There’s a lot of, you know, brown foliage in the crowns of these trees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>That’s Todd Dawson. He’s an environmental scientist and professor at UC Berkeley and has been studying redwood trees for decades. We met up on a foggy morning at the UC Berkeley campus… home to many unhealthy-looking redwood trees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Todd Dawson: \u003c/strong>See the thinning crowns of the one right out there in the distance? \u003cstrong>Dana Cronin (in scene): \u003c/strong>Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Todd Dawson: \u003c/strong>There you go. And you just see that over and over and over, repeated in so many places.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Todd says trees are suffering all over the Bay Area… even up through Santa Rosa.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>And, there are two main reasons for that suffering. Let’s take them one at a time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>Music ends \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>The first reason is urbanization. The Bay Area has gone through a drastic transformation over the last century…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Todd Dawson: \u003c/strong>And with all the concrete and all the pollution that’s associated with urban sprawl, the trees are suffering.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>That’s mostly because sidewalks and roadways are impinging on redwoods’ root systems. Remember how their roots extend out really wide?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Todd Dawson: \u003c/strong>Here we are standing ten feet away from a redwood tree on a concrete sidewalk. And we’ve set concrete on top of a big part of the root system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so it’s really going to have a very, very negative impact on the ability of that tree to get the water it needs, get the nutrients it needs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>We’re basically suffocating them. And on top of that, we have reason number two… climate change… which is impacting redwood trees in different ways. That fog that redwoods drink in, well, it turns out it’s on the decline. In fact, since the 1950’s it’s declined about 30% during the summertime… when redwoods really need it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>That decline, coupled with periods of severe drought in California, is putting a lot of stress on the trees. Especially Giant Sequoias… another type of redwood that mostly lives in the Sierra Nevada. Thousands of trees there have died due to a lack of water.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Todd Dawson: \u003c/strong>The water deficit itself didn’t really kill all those trees. It weakened them in a way where other pests and pathogens got in there and basically wiped them out like beetles, fungi, other things like that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>In addition to a lack of water… more intense fires are also impacting those trees. Although they have adapted to fire over the centuries… they can’t handle the extreme fires we’re seeing now caused by climate change and bad forest management.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>All in all, Todd says redwood forests are struggling along their perimeters. As the wildland-urban interface stretches further and further into the wild… redwood trees are increasingly exposed to human impacts. They’re losing their buffer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Todd Dawson: \u003c/strong>I think that’s the future, is we’re going to see a patchier world. And that’s really disappointing and concerning for me because, you know, we sit at the heart of that. Humans are really the ones that are in control and are having the negative impacts that we now see.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Now, I think we’ve answered most of Julie’s questions… except for one. What can we do about it? Todd has a couple thoughts on that. First, Julie,\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">regarding your backyard redwood trees… Todd says you can try watering them…. But…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Todd Dawson: \u003c/strong>The trees require so much water. They also require pretty special microclimates, meaning that they like it cooler. They like these moist, foggy summers like we’re seeing today. You know, And I think you can’t really recreate those conditions as a person. Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Unfortunately, he says, irrigation is a band-aid solution at best. Because the problems redwood trees are facing now are much more systemic. And that’s how we need to think about solutions, Todd says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>One of those solutions is to protect redwood forests by getting them in the hands of governments and nonprofits… like Deborah’s Save the Redwoods League. Todd says that work is critical to ensuring the trees’ survival here in Northern California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>Whimsical music begins \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Todd Dawson: \u003c/strong>The forests are just so special, these big cathedrals with these amazing and gigantic trees that there’s just nothing like that. And I think anybody who’s ever walked through a forest for the first time just is in awe of what a special place and what a special feel it has. And so I’m really concerned about them and I want to keep working with them and I’d love to see those forests protected, you know, in perpetuity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Protecting them now means securing their existence for our kids, grandkids… and maybe even humans two THOUSAND years from now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">**\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That was KQED’s Dana Cronin. We gave our question asker Julie a call to share the answer…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Julie Menter: \u003c/strong>There is a piece of concrete in our backyard that we’re thinking of taking out. So that’s a good confirmation of like, yeah, let’s take it out, let’s not suffocate this tree and give it more support.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Thanks for asking the question Julie. Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. If you’re a fan of the show, please consider giving us a rating or review on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. It’s a little step that goes a long way to help people find and trust our show.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Bay Curious is produced by Amanda Font, Christopher Beale and me, Olivia Allen-Price. Have a fantastic week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\n",
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"excerpt": "On this Labor Day weekend, we're sharing an episode from KQED's Bay Curious podcast about what's happening to our state's iconic redwood trees, and how we can support them.",
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"title": "Are the Redwood Trees OK? | KQED",
"description": "On this Labor Day weekend, we're sharing an episode from KQED's Bay Curious podcast about what's happening to our state's iconic redwood trees, and how we can support them.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On this Labor Day weekend, we’re sharing an episode from KQED’s Bay Curious podcast about what’s happening to our state’s iconic redwood trees, and how we can support them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC3075408303&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11953504/the-bay-areas-famous-redwood-trees-are-struggling\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">originally published on June 22, 2023.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. California’s redwood trees are iconic. I mean, people travel from far away on long weekends like this one just to stand at their base, look up, and admire their magic. But right now, these amazing trees are struggling. And they could use our help. So, today, KQED’s \u003cem>Bay Curious\u003c/em> – a show that answers listener questions about the Bay Area – dives deep into what’s happening to our redwoods and what we can do to support them. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Julie Menter and her husband moved into a house in Oakland in 2017. There were lots of things they loved about their new home, but especially the three big redwood trees in the backyard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Julie Menter: \u003c/strong>It feels like it’s a really big part of the identity to me of the city of Oakland. Like if you look at the hills and the trees…being able to go in nature while being in a city feels really important to me for my mental health and balance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Last year, Julie started to worry about the trees. One of them had lost almost all of its leaves and, despite watering it, it wasn’t bouncing back. It had to come down.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Julie Menter: \u003c/strong>It’s so sad. And I think it’s sad both for the tree because, you know, they’re such beautiful trees, they’re so old and majestic. But also scary to be like, “Whoa, this tree is not doing well, the one next to it isn’t, the ones in my neighborhood don’t seem to be doing well.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Julie’s noticed not just in her backyard, but all around Oakland, redwood trees don’t look so good. Around her neighborhood… off highways… really all over the East Bay, Julie has noticed the trees looking dry and scraggly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Julie Menter: \u003c/strong>So I’m wondering, is something happening to the redwood trees in the Bay Area? And if so, what is it and is there anything we can do about it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>I’m Olivia Allen-Price and this is Bay Curious. Today on the show, we’re tackling California’s state tree: the coast redwood. We’ll dig into why it’s unique to this area, what makes it so special… and also how it’s adapting to challenges like climate change and urbanization. Stick around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>We sent reporter and redwood tree enthusiast Dana Cronin out to answer Julie’s question about what’s up with the redwoods…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>Sound of walking through a forest \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>There’s a really special feeling I get every time I walk through a redwood forest. My mind goes quiet, the only audible sound coming from the crunch of my footsteps. The temperature is always perfect; even on the hottest day, it’s still cool among the trees. And the smell.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin (in scene)\u003c/strong>: It smells so good. There’s just no, like, even just stepping outside of my car in the parking lot, I was like (breathes in, breathes out) It’s just so good.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>I’m in the middle of the Roberts Redwood Recreational forest in the Oakland hills… hiking with Deborah Ziertan, who works for Save the Redwoods League. She’s gonna help me teach you all about redwood trees and why they’re unique to our region. Then, later on, we’ll get to the heart of Julie’s question … what’s happening to them? And just a note – for this episode we’ll mostly focus on coastal redwoods, which grow no more than 50 miles from the coastline. Now, Deborah grew up here in Oakland and visited these redwoods frequently as a kid.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Deborah Ziertan: \u003c/strong>I don’t think I fully appreciated the redwoods until I went away to school and then came back as an adult. And this was the place that I would hike to clear my head. And these were the forests that I came to. And so it is a very special place for me here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Deborah has now dedicated her life to these trees. She’s an educator with Save the Redwoods League. Her job is to teach school-aged kids about them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>Sounds of children in a forest \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Deborah Ziertan: \u003c/strong>Good morning students! \u003cstrong>Students: \u003c/strong>Good morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>I tagged along recently with Deborah, as she guided about thirty fifth graders from a local elementary school through the Reinhardt Redwood\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">Regional Park. The students are spread out across three wooden picnic tables, fidgeting in their seats.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Deborah Ziertan:\u003c/strong>Can I have everyone’s eyes up here? Ok. Will everyone look up and take a look? We are in a little redwood grove. So these are all redwood trees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>After setting a few ground rules… no touching plants… be quiet while others are talking… Miss Deborah — as they call her — launches into the lesson.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Deborah Ziertan: \u003c/strong>Do you know anything about redwood trees at all? Raise your hand if you know anything about redwoods.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>A student’s hand shoots up.\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>Deborah Ziertan: \u003c/strong>Yes. They are really tall. They are. Redwoods are the tallest tree\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">in the whole entire world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Redwood trees can grow more than 300 feet tall. That’s taller than a 30-story skyscraper. And not only are they the tallest tree in the world, they’re also among the biggest. Their trucks can grow nearly 30 feet wide. So, how are they able to get so big?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Deborah Ziertan: \u003c/strong>So everyone do this with your arms. It’s okay if you kind of lightly touch your neighbors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Deborah holds her arms out straight to the sides, like a scarecrow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Deborah Ziertan: \u003c/strong>One of the things that makes redwoods so unique is that they actually hold hands with their roots underneath the ground, and that’s how they’re able to grow to be so tall and not fall down is that they help each other.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Redwood roots are shallow and extend outward instead of down. Their roots extend out almost as far as the tree is tall … and they essentially hold each other up. In addition to being really big… redwoods can also live a very long\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">time… like more than 2,000 years. That means some coastal redwoods today were alive during the Roman Empire. Those old-growth redwoods, which now only account for 5 percent of all redwood trees, can store more carbon than any other forest on the planet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Deborah Ziertan: \u003c/strong>So we are pretty lucky to have redwood trees here in Oakland. And people travel from all over the world to come and see redwood trees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>Magical sounding music \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Redwood trees also have unique ways of reproducing. They produce seeds, like any other tree, but they can also sprout new trees from their roots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Deborah Ziertan: \u003c/strong>So often redwood trees, you will find them in circles that we call fairy rings. Because if a parent tree gets hurt or injured, it will send out these baby sprouts into these circles. And it’s kind of like a little family growing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>They’re basically clones of their parents. That’s why you rarely see redwood trees standing alone, and more often see them together in a circle formation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Deborah tells the students we can learn a lot from redwood trees. They exist in communities and rely on each other for support. They have hard exteriors that protect them from things like wildfires, but they’re soft on the inside. Deborah says… they’re not so different from us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>Music ends \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>The earliest redwood trees existed more than 200 million years ago… alongside dinosaurs in the Jurassic period. Their natural range has shrunk a lot in that time… now they mostly stretch up and down the northern California coast… as far north as the Oregon border and down to about Big Sur.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Their distribution tracks with another iconic California phenomenon… coastal fog. So, in the summer months, when there’s a lack of rainfall, redwood trees essentially drink the fog.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Deborah Ziertan: \u003c/strong>It’s almost like a sponge sucking in that water. And then when their needles get full, also like a sponge, any of that excess water will drip to the ground. And it’s almost as if they’re creating their own rain.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>And they’ve adapted to this region in other ways, too. They’re highly adapted to fire. Take the 2020 CZU Lightning Complex fire, for example, which burned through most of Big Basin Redwoods near Santa Cruz. Three years later, that forest is green again… and the old-growth redwood trees there are still standing strong.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Redwoods also survived a period of severe logging in the late 18-hundreds when, after the Gold Rush, San Francisco was booming and timber was in high demand. Many trees didn’t survive, though. In fact, most of the trees now living in the Oakland hills are ones that have grown since that period of logging… young, by redwoods standards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Luckily, a movement was underway to protect redwood forests. Save the Redwoods League… where Deborah works… was founded in 1918… and helped to accelerate the preservation of redwood trees across Northern California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Deborah Ziertan: \u003c/strong>People started to see the value in recreation and see the value in these trees not as lumber, but for health and wellness and for preservation purposes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>Music in \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>But now they’re facing new challenges. As our question-asker Julie noticed… Redwood trees in the Bay Area are struggling.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Todd Dawson: \u003c/strong>If you walk and you look up now, in most urban areas, I think everybody can pretty much see that, you know, there’s some tops that are dying back. There’s a lot of, you know, brown foliage in the crowns of these trees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>That’s Todd Dawson. He’s an environmental scientist and professor at UC Berkeley and has been studying redwood trees for decades. We met up on a foggy morning at the UC Berkeley campus… home to many unhealthy-looking redwood trees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Todd Dawson: \u003c/strong>See the thinning crowns of the one right out there in the distance? \u003cstrong>Dana Cronin (in scene): \u003c/strong>Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Todd Dawson: \u003c/strong>There you go. And you just see that over and over and over, repeated in so many places.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Todd says trees are suffering all over the Bay Area… even up through Santa Rosa.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>And, there are two main reasons for that suffering. Let’s take them one at a time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>Music ends \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>The first reason is urbanization. The Bay Area has gone through a drastic transformation over the last century…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Todd Dawson: \u003c/strong>And with all the concrete and all the pollution that’s associated with urban sprawl, the trees are suffering.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>That’s mostly because sidewalks and roadways are impinging on redwoods’ root systems. Remember how their roots extend out really wide?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Todd Dawson: \u003c/strong>Here we are standing ten feet away from a redwood tree on a concrete sidewalk. And we’ve set concrete on top of a big part of the root system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">And so it’s really going to have a very, very negative impact on the ability of that tree to get the water it needs, get the nutrients it needs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>We’re basically suffocating them. And on top of that, we have reason number two… climate change… which is impacting redwood trees in different ways. That fog that redwoods drink in, well, it turns out it’s on the decline. In fact, since the 1950’s it’s declined about 30% during the summertime… when redwoods really need it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>That decline, coupled with periods of severe drought in California, is putting a lot of stress on the trees. Especially Giant Sequoias… another type of redwood that mostly lives in the Sierra Nevada. Thousands of trees there have died due to a lack of water.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Todd Dawson: \u003c/strong>The water deficit itself didn’t really kill all those trees. It weakened them in a way where other pests and pathogens got in there and basically wiped them out like beetles, fungi, other things like that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>In addition to a lack of water… more intense fires are also impacting those trees. Although they have adapted to fire over the centuries… they can’t handle the extreme fires we’re seeing now caused by climate change and bad forest management.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>All in all, Todd says redwood forests are struggling along their perimeters. As the wildland-urban interface stretches further and further into the wild… redwood trees are increasingly exposed to human impacts. They’re losing their buffer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Todd Dawson: \u003c/strong>I think that’s the future, is we’re going to see a patchier world. And that’s really disappointing and concerning for me because, you know, we sit at the heart of that. Humans are really the ones that are in control and are having the negative impacts that we now see.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Now, I think we’ve answered most of Julie’s questions… except for one. What can we do about it? Todd has a couple thoughts on that. First, Julie,\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">regarding your backyard redwood trees… Todd says you can try watering them…. But…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Todd Dawson: \u003c/strong>The trees require so much water. They also require pretty special microclimates, meaning that they like it cooler. They like these moist, foggy summers like we’re seeing today. You know, And I think you can’t really recreate those conditions as a person. Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Unfortunately, he says, irrigation is a band-aid solution at best. Because the problems redwood trees are facing now are much more systemic. And that’s how we need to think about solutions, Todd says.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>One of those solutions is to protect redwood forests by getting them in the hands of governments and nonprofits… like Deborah’s Save the Redwoods League. Todd says that work is critical to ensuring the trees’ survival here in Northern California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>Whimsical music begins \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Todd Dawson: \u003c/strong>The forests are just so special, these big cathedrals with these amazing and gigantic trees that there’s just nothing like that. And I think anybody who’s ever walked through a forest for the first time just is in awe of what a special place and what a special feel it has. And so I’m really concerned about them and I want to keep working with them and I’d love to see those forests protected, you know, in perpetuity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dana Cronin: \u003c/strong>Protecting them now means securing their existence for our kids, grandkids… and maybe even humans two THOUSAND years from now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">**\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>That was KQED’s Dana Cronin. We gave our question asker Julie a call to share the answer…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Julie Menter: \u003c/strong>There is a piece of concrete in our backyard that we’re thinking of taking out. So that’s a good confirmation of like, yeah, let’s take it out, let’s not suffocate this tree and give it more support.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Thanks for asking the question Julie. Bay Curious is made in San Francisco at member-supported KQED. If you’re a fan of the show, please consider giving us a rating or review on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. It’s a little step that goes a long way to help people find and trust our show.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Olivia Allen-Price: \u003c/strong>Bay Curious is produced by Amanda Font, Christopher Beale and me, Olivia Allen-Price. Have a fantastic week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"title": "The Silicon Valley Giants Who Want to Build a New City in Solano County",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"c-message_kit__blocks c-message_kit__blocks--rich_text\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"c-message__message_blocks c-message__message_blocks--rich_text\" data-qa=\"message-text\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-block_kit_renderer\" data-qa=\"block-kit-renderer\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-block_kit_renderer__block_wrapper p-block_kit_renderer__block_wrapper--first\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-rich_text_block\" dir=\"auto\">\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some of the richest, most outspoken investors in the tech world are behind a company that has bought nearly 60,000 acres of mostly farmland in Solano County. They say they want to build a new city from scratch. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But who are they? And why do they want to do this? Erin Griffith with The New York Times explains.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC4817131855&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links: \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"css-1vkm6nb ehdk2mb0\">\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli id=\"link-1d6b8ab\" class=\"css-1l8buln e1h9rw200\" data-testid=\"headline\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/25/business/land-purchases-solano-county.html\">The Silicon Valley Elite Who Want to Build a City From Scratch\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli data-testid=\"headline\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11959390/elected-officials-to-meet-with-silicon-valley-investors-behind-800-million-solano-county-land-grab\">Elected Officials to Meet with Silicon Valley Investors Behind $800 Million Solano County Land Grab\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. I can’t think of another county in the Bay area that feels farther away from Silicon Valley than Solano County. I’m talking literally, but also culturally, economically and dare I say, spiritually. But Silicon Valley and Solano County are beginning to collide now that a who’s who of tech billionaires under the name Flannery Associates have bought up nearly 60,000 acres of agricultural land near Fairfield and Rio Vista with plans to build a new city. For years, their identities were a mystery, even to local leaders.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ron Kott: \u003c/strong>This big plan kind of all of a sudden drops on everyone’s doorstep. We were all wondering who these people are. Now we know what they are, and now we’re wondering now what, you know?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>But last Friday, the public finally learned who they were, and now they’re going to have to win over the hearts and minds of residents and lawmakers who are feeling a little skeptical.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>John Garamendi: \u003c/strong>They need to know that they have thoroughly, thoroughly soured the entire Solano County by their eyes towards bullying of landowners, by their unwillingness to talk to anybody for more than four years now and then to come out with a pie in the sky development program that will have enormous impact.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So today we’re talking with Erin Griffith, one of the New York Times reporters who broke this news about the billionaires behind Flannery Associates and what we know about them. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Erin, can you take me back to 2017 when this idea of a new city was first planted? Who was behind this idea?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>What we reported last week was that Michael Moritz, who was a longtime venture capital investor at Sequoia Capital, the top VC firm in Silicon Valley, was sending emails out to potential investors asking about this project. And that’s sort of the first thing that we have seen about this kind of seed of this idea. He is raising money on behalf of a different person, an entrepreneur named Jan Sramek, who is kind of this interesting figure. He was born in the Czech Republic. He came to the U.S. He’s a hotshot trader at Goldman Sachs, a rising star on Wall Street. But sometime in the mid 20 tens, he comes out to Silicon Valley to try to make it as a startup founder. He had a couple of startups that didn’t really take off, but at some point he connects with Michael Moritz and pitches him this idea on building a new city from scratch. And from there, Michael Moritz starts, you know, tapping his network of powerful, wealthy investor types to see if they’d be interested. The gist of the pitch that my colleague Connor Doherty and I saw and reported on is that this is going to be a brand new city.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I know it’s sort of like has this utopian vibe. Can you describe a little bit of what we know about, I guess, the sort of vision for what kind of city this was going to be?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>In this pitch, it’s a walkable city like, you know, comparable to Paris. And it’s this idea of we’re going to perhaps rethink everything from governance to building and construction. We’re going to start with a blank slate. We’re not going to have any of the sort of entrenched, intractable problems that many cities, but particularly in California, have had. And that has kind of held them back from being able to build the housing that we need and that has contributed to this terrible housing and homelessness crisis that the state has been dealing with for a long time now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Since then, this idea really has taken flight. And I know a company called Flannery Associates has been very busy in Solano County. Can you remind us, what have they been up to? Exactly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So the company that he was pitching at, he didn’t name it in his pitch, but eventually it turned out to be a company called Flannery Associates, which has been aggressively snapping up mostly farmland in Solano County. They started out buying land at just like $5 an acre. But as the locals have caught on to like this, this is the same company that’s buying land from everyone. And they’re making offers and it has the price has gone up and to to $20,000 an acre. So they’re wildly overpaying, but they have bought a lot of land. It has caused a lot of confusion because they have remained a mystery. You know, up until last week, we didn’t know who Flannery Associates was or what they were planning to do. So lots of rumors and speculation and investigations into who is actually behind this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>You and your colleague have since broke the story about who is behind Flannery. How would you, I guess, characterize this group of people behind Flannery Associates, these people buying up all this land in Solano County?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>It was a group of very powerful and very wealthy Silicon Valley investors. We have Michael Moritz, who I mentioned earlier, who was a journalist who became a venture capitalist as one of the most successful venture capitalists. He’s, you know, early investor in companies that, you know, like Google or PayPal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Michael Moritz: \u003c/strong>You absolutely have to have as the guiding force of an abiding, enduring technology company, a person or people at the helm who have products in their DNA.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>Reid Hoffman, who co-founded LinkedIn. He’s been a venture capitalist now for a while. Marc Andreessen and Chris Dixon, who are two investors at the end and Horowitz firm. They’re both also entrepreneurs who became venture capitalists. Patrick and John Collison, the co-founders of Stripe, which is one of the most valuable startups in Silicon Valley. It’s a payments company. Laurene Powell Jobs, who is the widow of Steve Jobs and who runs this nonprofit called Emerson Collective. She’s also very active in Democratic politics. And then now Friedman and Daniel GROSS, who are two entrepreneurs who are now angel investors. Now, Friedman is notable because he also is the co-founder of California Yimby, which is a political group that has been pushing for a lot of effort for California to build more housing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I know you tweeted these are sort of the boldface names of Silicon Valley. Can you explain what you mean by that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I mean, there’s just some of the most famous, partly because they’re among the most successful, but also because they are kind of thought leaders. You know, Marc Andreessen, he tweets, he blogs, he goes on podcasts. He has very strong and bold opinions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marc Andreessen: \u003c/strong>What you need is if you want to replace the elite that you have today, what you need to do is you need to have a better elite. And there’s only one way out if you don’t like the current oligarchic elite. That doesn’t result in just mass deaths. The only way out is a superior elite.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>You know, Reid Hoffman is very well known.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Reid Hoffman: \u003c/strong>If you look at a lot of these companies that ten years ago were were ideas back on napkins in tiny and now are global transformational companies. This is the set of techniques that we’ve learned in Silicon Valley. In order to do that, and we would like to spread those techniques to as many places as possible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>I mean, he’s a big, big donor to presidential campaigns as well as a local Democratic. These are just like if you were going to name the most famous venture capitalist, these are the ones that everyone kind of in the industry holds up as the most well known ones, the most successful ones and the wealthiest ones.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I want to understand their motivation a little bit more here. Do we know anything about why an idea like this is something that would be of interest to this group of people?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>These investors all have differing politics, but I think they all agree on the Silicon Valley idea of taking big swings. They’re like, why can’t we, you know, take the ambition and outside the box thinking that we apply to our businesses and use it to solve this problem that’s right in front of our eyes. I think there’s a little bit of that. There’s also just this perennial attraction to this idea of building a new city from scratch. It’s not a new idea. Y Combinator, which is a startup accelerator that’s here, had this whole program to the idea of building a new cities in the mid 20 tens. There’s another 100 millionaire in New York who’s trying to build a new city somewhere in the Nevada desert. There is some kind of strange attraction to just starting over with a clean slate and not having to solve some of the hard problems that are really deeply entrenched today in our existing cities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I know Michael Moritz is actually also someone who has written some op eds about San Francisco’s plight in particular that I know got a lot of big responses for how he sort of painted problems in the city. And yeah, I imagine for these folks, it’s maybe more appealing to build a city in your image than it is to try and fix these problems that you see in cities like San Francisco that it almost feels like no one is able to fix.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I think that that’s a part of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>One question that I have been thinking about is, you know, if if this is an idea that they really believe in, that they think can help solve some of the these intractable problems that we see in California, why keep it a secret for so long?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I think that’s a question a lot of people have had because that, I think, fostered a lot of skepticism or distrust because of all these years of not knowing. My understanding is that I don’t think they thought they would have been able to buy the land that they have. And it wouldn’t have it wouldn’t have worked if they had said who they are. I mean, they already have escalated the price they’re paying from very expensive $5 an acre to $20,000 an acre. So I think they believe that was part of the only way that this could happen. But again, I think we’re going to have to wait and hear from them. And now. Obviously flipping. The charm offensive mode.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That made my, I don’t know, my antennas tingle a little bit because I do imagine they have to be at least somewhat aware of the perception of them may be and what it might look like to to be billionaires coming into these like smaller communities. And I mean, I have to admit, I feel really protective of this place. As someone who is from Solano County, I mean, what reactions have you seen so far from locals?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>I think people are, you know, naturally skeptical as you would be in such an unusual situation like this. I think maybe a little baffled. And, you know, I think there’s a little bit of fear. They wanted to live there for a reason, you know, because they don’t want to live in a city. And so I think people are worried about maybe being priced out. And if you can imagine putting yourself in the position of these local officials who for years have been trying to figure out who this group is and had no idea, you know, it’s it’s a little awkward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Local officials have mentioned several barriers to this idea. Fairfield Mayor Catherine Moyer told KQED that resources are going to be a huge deal. Like water and transportation, Moy says the single two lane highway in the area, Highway 12, just isn’t going to cut it for a new city. It’s notoriously deadly and would be difficult to expand because of existing protective species laws. Then there’s Congressman John Garamendi, who says Flanary is going to have to earn the trust of people in the area, especially farmers, some of whom are being sued by Flanary on accusations of colluding to jack up the price of their land, not to mention his concerns about what this is going to mean for Travis Air Force Base, which is now surrounded by Flanary owned land on three sides. So the people behind Flanary have got a lot of work to do if they want to win the hearts and minds of Solano County residents. But Erin says in the tech world, people have had a much more positive reaction to this news.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>It’s very interesting. Silicon Valley is a place where you can essentially go to a party and say, I’m going to build a new city from scratch and people will take you seriously and maybe even give you $1,000,000,000 to do it, you know? So I think people admire the ambition and are like, yes, it seems like a huge long shot, but. Good for them for trying. And I and I hope I hope they succeed. I think people are very curious about it. And there’s a lot of people who are interested in urbanism and new ways of doing things and, you know, bringing innovation to our cities. So I’ve heard, you know, from tech people who are are very curious and and interested and even want to work on it, which is, I think, different than the broader skepticism that I’ve that I’ve seen from non-tech people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>You report on venture capital. You’re familiar with the people behind Flannery, which most people who maybe aren’t in the tech world aren’t as familiar with. So how do you, I guess, foresee this group of people exercising their money and also their power to build the city in this place where honestly, I think a lot of people aren’t used to. I mean, one, the attention and then two big billionaires rolling through with big ideas like this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>These are tech titans of industry who all have very strong opinions. Oh, that is a very, very different world than politics. And, you know, dealing with people’s livelihoods in business, everything comes down to the bottom line. And things are a lot more emotional when it comes to your town and your life in the way and the way that you live. So yeah, they’re going to have to like really embrace some of that, like politics and soft skills kind of things. And they’ve already, you know, they’ve hired people in Sacramento to help do that. They’re going to dangle things like local jobs, you know, infrastructure, parks, other kinds of amenities, and hope that that will be enough to convince people that this is a good idea. It could work or it could backfire spectacularly. And maybe they’ll sell the land. I think that they believe that they will succeed where others have failed. But yeah, it’s it’s a wild one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Erin, thank you so much for for joining us and sharing your reporting with us. I really appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>Yeah, thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>A representative with Flanary, told KQED that the company plans to launch a ballot initiative in Solano County to help speed up development. There are going to be many, many more political fights about this in the months and maybe even years to come. That was Erin Griffith, a reporter with The New York Times, covering startups and venture capital. At the top of this episode, you heard from Rio Vista Mayor Ron Kott and Congressman John Garamendi. Thanks to KQED and Alex Phinney and Billy Cruz for that tape. The interview you heard with Michael Moritz was from PBS. The interview you heard with Reid Hoffman was from CBS This Morning, and the clip of Mark Andreasen was from the Upstream podcast with Eric Kornberg. This 30-minute conversation with Erin was cut down and edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. It was produced by Maria Esquinca to shout out to the rest of the podcast team here at KQED. That’s Jen Chien, our director of podcasts, Katie Sprenger, our podcast operations manager. We get audience engagement support from César Saldaña. And Holly Kernan is our chief content officer. If you liked this episode, consider sharing it with your homies. Word of mouth is the best way to help us grow. The Bay is a production of KQED in San Francisco. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\n",
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"description": "View the full episode transcript. Some of the richest, most outspoken investors in the tech world are behind a company that has bought nearly 60,000 acres of mostly farmland in Solano County. They say they want to build a new city from scratch. But who are they? And why do they want to do this? Erin Griffith with The New York Times explains. Links: The Silicon Valley Elite Who Want to Build a City From Scratch Elected Officials to Meet with Silicon Valley Investors Behind $800 Million Solano County Land Grab Episode Transcript This is a computer-generated transcript. While",
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"headline": "The Silicon Valley Giants Who Want to Build a New City in Solano County",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cdiv class=\"c-message_kit__blocks c-message_kit__blocks--rich_text\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"c-message__message_blocks c-message__message_blocks--rich_text\" data-qa=\"message-text\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-block_kit_renderer\" data-qa=\"block-kit-renderer\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-block_kit_renderer__block_wrapper p-block_kit_renderer__block_wrapper--first\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-rich_text_block\" dir=\"auto\">\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some of the richest, most outspoken investors in the tech world are behind a company that has bought nearly 60,000 acres of mostly farmland in Solano County. They say they want to build a new city from scratch. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But who are they? And why do they want to do this? Erin Griffith with The New York Times explains.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC4817131855&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links: \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"css-1vkm6nb ehdk2mb0\">\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli id=\"link-1d6b8ab\" class=\"css-1l8buln e1h9rw200\" data-testid=\"headline\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/25/business/land-purchases-solano-county.html\">The Silicon Valley Elite Who Want to Build a City From Scratch\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli data-testid=\"headline\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11959390/elected-officials-to-meet-with-silicon-valley-investors-behind-800-million-solano-county-land-grab\">Elected Officials to Meet with Silicon Valley Investors Behind $800 Million Solano County Land Grab\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. I can’t think of another county in the Bay area that feels farther away from Silicon Valley than Solano County. I’m talking literally, but also culturally, economically and dare I say, spiritually. But Silicon Valley and Solano County are beginning to collide now that a who’s who of tech billionaires under the name Flannery Associates have bought up nearly 60,000 acres of agricultural land near Fairfield and Rio Vista with plans to build a new city. For years, their identities were a mystery, even to local leaders.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ron Kott: \u003c/strong>This big plan kind of all of a sudden drops on everyone’s doorstep. We were all wondering who these people are. Now we know what they are, and now we’re wondering now what, you know?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>But last Friday, the public finally learned who they were, and now they’re going to have to win over the hearts and minds of residents and lawmakers who are feeling a little skeptical.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>John Garamendi: \u003c/strong>They need to know that they have thoroughly, thoroughly soured the entire Solano County by their eyes towards bullying of landowners, by their unwillingness to talk to anybody for more than four years now and then to come out with a pie in the sky development program that will have enormous impact.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So today we’re talking with Erin Griffith, one of the New York Times reporters who broke this news about the billionaires behind Flannery Associates and what we know about them. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Erin, can you take me back to 2017 when this idea of a new city was first planted? Who was behind this idea?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>What we reported last week was that Michael Moritz, who was a longtime venture capital investor at Sequoia Capital, the top VC firm in Silicon Valley, was sending emails out to potential investors asking about this project. And that’s sort of the first thing that we have seen about this kind of seed of this idea. He is raising money on behalf of a different person, an entrepreneur named Jan Sramek, who is kind of this interesting figure. He was born in the Czech Republic. He came to the U.S. He’s a hotshot trader at Goldman Sachs, a rising star on Wall Street. But sometime in the mid 20 tens, he comes out to Silicon Valley to try to make it as a startup founder. He had a couple of startups that didn’t really take off, but at some point he connects with Michael Moritz and pitches him this idea on building a new city from scratch. And from there, Michael Moritz starts, you know, tapping his network of powerful, wealthy investor types to see if they’d be interested. The gist of the pitch that my colleague Connor Doherty and I saw and reported on is that this is going to be a brand new city.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I know it’s sort of like has this utopian vibe. Can you describe a little bit of what we know about, I guess, the sort of vision for what kind of city this was going to be?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>In this pitch, it’s a walkable city like, you know, comparable to Paris. And it’s this idea of we’re going to perhaps rethink everything from governance to building and construction. We’re going to start with a blank slate. We’re not going to have any of the sort of entrenched, intractable problems that many cities, but particularly in California, have had. And that has kind of held them back from being able to build the housing that we need and that has contributed to this terrible housing and homelessness crisis that the state has been dealing with for a long time now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Since then, this idea really has taken flight. And I know a company called Flannery Associates has been very busy in Solano County. Can you remind us, what have they been up to? Exactly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So the company that he was pitching at, he didn’t name it in his pitch, but eventually it turned out to be a company called Flannery Associates, which has been aggressively snapping up mostly farmland in Solano County. They started out buying land at just like $5 an acre. But as the locals have caught on to like this, this is the same company that’s buying land from everyone. And they’re making offers and it has the price has gone up and to to $20,000 an acre. So they’re wildly overpaying, but they have bought a lot of land. It has caused a lot of confusion because they have remained a mystery. You know, up until last week, we didn’t know who Flannery Associates was or what they were planning to do. So lots of rumors and speculation and investigations into who is actually behind this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>You and your colleague have since broke the story about who is behind Flannery. How would you, I guess, characterize this group of people behind Flannery Associates, these people buying up all this land in Solano County?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>It was a group of very powerful and very wealthy Silicon Valley investors. We have Michael Moritz, who I mentioned earlier, who was a journalist who became a venture capitalist as one of the most successful venture capitalists. He’s, you know, early investor in companies that, you know, like Google or PayPal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Michael Moritz: \u003c/strong>You absolutely have to have as the guiding force of an abiding, enduring technology company, a person or people at the helm who have products in their DNA.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>Reid Hoffman, who co-founded LinkedIn. He’s been a venture capitalist now for a while. Marc Andreessen and Chris Dixon, who are two investors at the end and Horowitz firm. They’re both also entrepreneurs who became venture capitalists. Patrick and John Collison, the co-founders of Stripe, which is one of the most valuable startups in Silicon Valley. It’s a payments company. Laurene Powell Jobs, who is the widow of Steve Jobs and who runs this nonprofit called Emerson Collective. She’s also very active in Democratic politics. And then now Friedman and Daniel GROSS, who are two entrepreneurs who are now angel investors. Now, Friedman is notable because he also is the co-founder of California Yimby, which is a political group that has been pushing for a lot of effort for California to build more housing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I know you tweeted these are sort of the boldface names of Silicon Valley. Can you explain what you mean by that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I mean, there’s just some of the most famous, partly because they’re among the most successful, but also because they are kind of thought leaders. You know, Marc Andreessen, he tweets, he blogs, he goes on podcasts. He has very strong and bold opinions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marc Andreessen: \u003c/strong>What you need is if you want to replace the elite that you have today, what you need to do is you need to have a better elite. And there’s only one way out if you don’t like the current oligarchic elite. That doesn’t result in just mass deaths. The only way out is a superior elite.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>You know, Reid Hoffman is very well known.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Reid Hoffman: \u003c/strong>If you look at a lot of these companies that ten years ago were were ideas back on napkins in tiny and now are global transformational companies. This is the set of techniques that we’ve learned in Silicon Valley. In order to do that, and we would like to spread those techniques to as many places as possible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>I mean, he’s a big, big donor to presidential campaigns as well as a local Democratic. These are just like if you were going to name the most famous venture capitalist, these are the ones that everyone kind of in the industry holds up as the most well known ones, the most successful ones and the wealthiest ones.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I want to understand their motivation a little bit more here. Do we know anything about why an idea like this is something that would be of interest to this group of people?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>These investors all have differing politics, but I think they all agree on the Silicon Valley idea of taking big swings. They’re like, why can’t we, you know, take the ambition and outside the box thinking that we apply to our businesses and use it to solve this problem that’s right in front of our eyes. I think there’s a little bit of that. There’s also just this perennial attraction to this idea of building a new city from scratch. It’s not a new idea. Y Combinator, which is a startup accelerator that’s here, had this whole program to the idea of building a new cities in the mid 20 tens. There’s another 100 millionaire in New York who’s trying to build a new city somewhere in the Nevada desert. There is some kind of strange attraction to just starting over with a clean slate and not having to solve some of the hard problems that are really deeply entrenched today in our existing cities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I know Michael Moritz is actually also someone who has written some op eds about San Francisco’s plight in particular that I know got a lot of big responses for how he sort of painted problems in the city. And yeah, I imagine for these folks, it’s maybe more appealing to build a city in your image than it is to try and fix these problems that you see in cities like San Francisco that it almost feels like no one is able to fix.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I think that that’s a part of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>One question that I have been thinking about is, you know, if if this is an idea that they really believe in, that they think can help solve some of the these intractable problems that we see in California, why keep it a secret for so long?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I think that’s a question a lot of people have had because that, I think, fostered a lot of skepticism or distrust because of all these years of not knowing. My understanding is that I don’t think they thought they would have been able to buy the land that they have. And it wouldn’t have it wouldn’t have worked if they had said who they are. I mean, they already have escalated the price they’re paying from very expensive $5 an acre to $20,000 an acre. So I think they believe that was part of the only way that this could happen. But again, I think we’re going to have to wait and hear from them. And now. Obviously flipping. The charm offensive mode.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That made my, I don’t know, my antennas tingle a little bit because I do imagine they have to be at least somewhat aware of the perception of them may be and what it might look like to to be billionaires coming into these like smaller communities. And I mean, I have to admit, I feel really protective of this place. As someone who is from Solano County, I mean, what reactions have you seen so far from locals?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>I think people are, you know, naturally skeptical as you would be in such an unusual situation like this. I think maybe a little baffled. And, you know, I think there’s a little bit of fear. They wanted to live there for a reason, you know, because they don’t want to live in a city. And so I think people are worried about maybe being priced out. And if you can imagine putting yourself in the position of these local officials who for years have been trying to figure out who this group is and had no idea, you know, it’s it’s a little awkward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Local officials have mentioned several barriers to this idea. Fairfield Mayor Catherine Moyer told KQED that resources are going to be a huge deal. Like water and transportation, Moy says the single two lane highway in the area, Highway 12, just isn’t going to cut it for a new city. It’s notoriously deadly and would be difficult to expand because of existing protective species laws. Then there’s Congressman John Garamendi, who says Flanary is going to have to earn the trust of people in the area, especially farmers, some of whom are being sued by Flanary on accusations of colluding to jack up the price of their land, not to mention his concerns about what this is going to mean for Travis Air Force Base, which is now surrounded by Flanary owned land on three sides. So the people behind Flanary have got a lot of work to do if they want to win the hearts and minds of Solano County residents. But Erin says in the tech world, people have had a much more positive reaction to this news.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>It’s very interesting. Silicon Valley is a place where you can essentially go to a party and say, I’m going to build a new city from scratch and people will take you seriously and maybe even give you $1,000,000,000 to do it, you know? So I think people admire the ambition and are like, yes, it seems like a huge long shot, but. Good for them for trying. And I and I hope I hope they succeed. I think people are very curious about it. And there’s a lot of people who are interested in urbanism and new ways of doing things and, you know, bringing innovation to our cities. So I’ve heard, you know, from tech people who are are very curious and and interested and even want to work on it, which is, I think, different than the broader skepticism that I’ve that I’ve seen from non-tech people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>You report on venture capital. You’re familiar with the people behind Flannery, which most people who maybe aren’t in the tech world aren’t as familiar with. So how do you, I guess, foresee this group of people exercising their money and also their power to build the city in this place where honestly, I think a lot of people aren’t used to. I mean, one, the attention and then two big billionaires rolling through with big ideas like this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>These are tech titans of industry who all have very strong opinions. Oh, that is a very, very different world than politics. And, you know, dealing with people’s livelihoods in business, everything comes down to the bottom line. And things are a lot more emotional when it comes to your town and your life in the way and the way that you live. So yeah, they’re going to have to like really embrace some of that, like politics and soft skills kind of things. And they’ve already, you know, they’ve hired people in Sacramento to help do that. They’re going to dangle things like local jobs, you know, infrastructure, parks, other kinds of amenities, and hope that that will be enough to convince people that this is a good idea. It could work or it could backfire spectacularly. And maybe they’ll sell the land. I think that they believe that they will succeed where others have failed. But yeah, it’s it’s a wild one.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Erin, thank you so much for for joining us and sharing your reporting with us. I really appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Erin Griffith: \u003c/strong>Yeah, thanks for having me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>A representative with Flanary, told KQED that the company plans to launch a ballot initiative in Solano County to help speed up development. There are going to be many, many more political fights about this in the months and maybe even years to come. That was Erin Griffith, a reporter with The New York Times, covering startups and venture capital. At the top of this episode, you heard from Rio Vista Mayor Ron Kott and Congressman John Garamendi. Thanks to KQED and Alex Phinney and Billy Cruz for that tape. The interview you heard with Michael Moritz was from PBS. The interview you heard with Reid Hoffman was from CBS This Morning, and the clip of Mark Andreasen was from the Upstream podcast with Eric Kornberg. This 30-minute conversation with Erin was cut down and edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. It was produced by Maria Esquinca to shout out to the rest of the podcast team here at KQED. That’s Jen Chien, our director of podcasts, Katie Sprenger, our podcast operations manager. We get audience engagement support from César Saldaña. And Holly Kernan is our chief content officer. If you liked this episode, consider sharing it with your homies. Word of mouth is the best way to help us grow. The Bay is a production of KQED in San Francisco. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Under what circumstances should San Francisco be able to clear homeless encampments? Last week, protesters and counter-protesters went head-to-head outside the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals over an injunction that limits the city’s ability to do that. KQED’s Sydney Johnson unpacks this legal battle, and explains why it has sparked such strong feelings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7775726450\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>London Breed: \u003c/strong>We are compassionate, we are supportive. We continue to help people. But this is not the way anything goes in San Francisco. It’s not the way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>It was a pretty tense scene outside a courthouse in San Francisco last week where Mayor London Breed and city leaders were protesting over one big question How much should the city be able to clear homeless encampments and move the people living there? The city has been under a court order that puts limits on encampment sweeps. And people in San Francisco have strong feelings about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Fred Winograd: \u003c/strong>Outside of my door, someone can camp and stay there and not be moved because of this injunction. But that’s harmed the residents and the businesses of this city.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Terri Beswick: \u003c/strong>I love that the court took a stand on this and I hope that they stick to it and say, you know, you if you want people off the streets, you have to give them somewhere to stay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Today, what this legal battle means for encampment sweeps in San Francisco and beyond.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>So essentially you have the Coalition on Homelessness, which is representing a group of individuals who are or were recently experiencing homelessness, who sued the city of San Francisco for essentially not following its own laws as it relates to clearing homeless encampments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Sydney Johnson is a reporter for KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>People representing different city agencies are meant to approach the people or person who lives there and ask them, you know, would you like shelter or some sort of housing option that has to happen in these sweeps. If there isn’t someone, you know, at the their belongings, but it’s clear that someone probably is staying there. The city also has a process that is called bag and tag, where they’re supposed to actually label the items and bring them to a place in the city where individuals can actually go and retrieve them. So all of those policies that we talked about offering shelter, bagging and tagging personal items, you know, these steps that are supposed to happen before an encampment is cleared. The plaintiffs in this case argued that the city had not been doing. Now, the city argues that it does lead with services, that it does do this, it understands and it does not deny that there is a huge additional need for more housing and for more temporary shelter. But the city says, you know, we do make these offers, we do follow our policies. But it’s arguing that the lawsuit has made it even more difficult for the city to respond to those calls that it gets from residents saying, hey, I’m concerned about this, you know, encampment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>The news last week was about this injunction. Can you explain to me what is it and what did it do exactly?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>Last September and 2022, that was when the lawsuit was first filed. That was when the coalition on homelessness sued the city of San Francisco just before Christmas Eve, also of last year. The judge granted a temporary injunction, which basically was a temporary order that said, hey, San Francisco, you cannot keep doing these encampment sweeps in the way that you’ve been doing it until you know this next step in the case. And that temporary injunction is still active right now. That doesn’t always mean that the city just can’t do anything right. If someone is breaking other laws while they’re sitting or lying. You know, that is a way that the city can still enforce its laws. The lawsuit came a bit to a head because there were two hearings. The city had tried to get the judge to release them from this injunction, and that was heard in a court. There were rallies happening outside on both ends, and it got pretty intense.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Protesters: \u003c/strong>[Chanting] Save our streets!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>News Anchor: \u003c/strong>Even before the hearing before the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals got underway. Both sides were arguing…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>There were some videos of people shouting directly at each other. However, you know, it did, I think, speak to just some of the frustration and also passion that people in San Francisco and across California right now really are feeling about this issue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, let’s dig into that a little bit more. Sydney, I want to start with the people who came out for this injunction, which to be clear means that they oppose the city doing sweeps more aggressively. Who came out last week on this side? Like, who is at the courthouse?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>So definitely lawyers from the ACLU and other attorneys who are representing the Coalition on homelessness were there. So all of those policies that we talked about just a minute ago, you know, these steps that are supposed to happen before an encampment is cleared. The plaintiffs in this case argued that the city had not been doing. In some circumstances, they said that city agencies would maybe just sort of wave a hand at shelter, not really genuinely offer it. In addition, they also had a lot of evidence showing that that bagging and tagging process was not being followed as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Zal Shroff \u003c/strong>Unhoused folks have a constitutional right against being policed out of sight just because they have no housing to go to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>Zal Shroff is the interim legal director with the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights of the San Francisco Bay Area. He’s been really involved in this case and essentially argues that San Francisco has not been following its own laws that are on the books and its own policies around what it can and can’t do to clear homeless encampments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Zal Shroff \u003c/strong>So you can’t go around seizing and destroying people’s tents. You have to safeguard their property. You have to store it. You have to give an opportunity to recover it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>It’s all essentially walked me through some examples where the city has, you know, flagrantly just disregarded some of those bag and tag policies. You know, told me some pretty heartbreaking stories of people who had lost really important medications, devices that they use to contact family members or even sign up for shelter, since that’s an online system now and that they had lost these items without much recourse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Zal Shroff \u003c/strong>The injunction goal was to have a disciplining effect to make sure the city’s goals were actually aligned with its actions, to make sure that when we actually approach an encampment, we have enough shelter. Folks, we are successful in getting them off the streets and into shelter and housing and the actually improving street homelessness conditions. That has not been the experience since the injunction because it’s very unclear whether or not they’re following it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>He is is really trying to underscore. Or that this lawsuit is not about just allowing the streets to delve into chaos. I don’t think anyone wants that. But, you know, he and others who are supporting this case say that the city needs to come up with actual solutions if it’s going to force people to move. And also just acknowledging the harm that is caused by forcing people to move.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Zal Shroff \u003c/strong>You know, I think we are, in a way talking past each other about the root causes of the homelessness crisis and also what causes street homelessness, because, of course, we know that a lack of access to shelter and a lack of access to affordable housing is the cause of the street homelessness crisis. And yet we have a huge gap in terms of what the city has been able to offer to actually mitigate that issue. And we see a real scapegoating about how people who are a problem that is really decades in the making.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, let’s talk about the other side of this debate. Who was at the courthouse on that side.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>The opposing rally that was there last week was really arguing for being able to clear encampments under most circumstances.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>London Breed: \u003c/strong>We are compassionate. We are supportive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>Outside the courthouse, we saw signs that said, you know, streets are not homes. We had a very fiery mayor London breed against the injunction, saying that the city should be able to clear encampments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>London Breed: \u003c/strong>We had prepared through our city attorney to do whatever it takes to make sure we are able to do our jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>She brought up some pretty hard examples that are really, I think, get to the emotion at the core of this issue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>London Breed: \u003c/strong>It is not humane to let people live on our streets in tents, use drugs. We have found dead bodies. We have found a dead baby in these tents. We have seen people in really awful conditions and we are not standing for it anymore. I am sick and tired of being sick and tired.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>You know, some pretty horrific and heartbreaking stories. You know, she did really rally a lot of that anger that people are having with seeing the poverty that they do see on the streets of San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>David Chiu \u003c/strong>Today, the city presented our case on why this injunction has been so difficult for San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>City attorney David Chiu was also there. He has been leading the case against this lawsuit and also the appeal against the injunction. You know, similarly, he said that the city’s hands have been tied when it comes to resolving these encampments that many people are complaining about.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>David Chiu \u003c/strong>I think everyone understands how incredibly challenging the situation is on the streets, how frustrating it has been. You only have to look out of the windows of the Ninth Circuit Courthouse building to see what’s happening in our streets. What the city’s hoping to do is balance the compassionate care and services that we want to provide to unhoused individuals with addressing the significant street conditions that we have throughout the city.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>We also saw three of the city’s more moderate supervisors, their supervisor, Mandelman, Engardio, and Dorsey. They were also there supporting David Chiu and supporting Mayor Breed, essentially arguing for the city to have more flexibility to carry out these sweeps.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I know the city says that it should have the right to sweep people out of an encampment, especially if they refuse offers of shelter or housing. Do we know how often that happens?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>That’s a hard question to answer. There are, of course, some individuals who may reject a shelter option for them. I think that that’s a reality that shouldn’t be denied. However, I think that more often there is just not shelter available or offered, or if there is shelter that’s offered, it’s not always appropriate if it’s a congregate group home where someone had stayed out previously and maybe had a really horrible experience that might not be an appropriate shelter for them. If someone is transgender and offered a shelter for a home that they do not identify with, if it’s separated by gender, that can be really harmful as well. Not to mention families or people with pets or, you know, certain disabilities that may prevent them from getting on a top bunk or something like that. This question of like what is genuine shelter and what is a real shelter offer, I think is a really important one because we know that shelter in general and housing in general is so scarce.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, it sounds like the city very much believes its hands are sort of tied under this injunction and also that a lot of the anger on this side comes from this sense that, like the city is being too lenient or too compassionate by having this injunction in place. Is that a good way, maybe to summarize?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I think so. I’d say that that side is is really arguing for basically putting cleaning the streets before the rights of people who are homeless and are forced to live on those streets.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What’s next, Sydney?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>There’s still a long way to go for this case. The judge is now considering the arguments over whether to appeal the injunction, but we probably won’t have an answer on that for a couple of weeks, maybe even a couple of months. And again, that is just for the injunction. So this temporary rule that the city cannot carry out sweeps in the way that it has been doing the full lawsuit and litigating, that is going to take even longer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean, do we know certainly whether there are implications beyond San Francisco here? Could this maybe escalate or even spread to other parts of the state that are dealing with, I mean, really the same problems that we’re seeing in San Francisco?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I think that this has big implications for the West Coast in general. I think, you know, whether you are a lawyer trying to think about civil rights in this space, whether you are a resident trying to be compassionate or better, understand homelessness in your area and looking for solutions. I think that there is a lot of interest and certainly a lot of feelings associated with this. And I think that that has also been part of why this has gripped so many people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Sydney, thanks so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>Thanks, Ericka.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Sydney Johnson, a reporter for KQED. This 38-minute conversation with Sydney was cut down and edited by Maria Esquinca. It was produced and scored by senior editor Alan Montecillo. Thanks as well to Billy Cruz and KTVU for some of the tape that you heard in this episode. If you’re new to The Bay, what’s up? Make sure to hit subscribe wherever you are listening so you don’t miss a beat. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Thank you so much for listening. Talk to you next time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Under what circumstances should San Francisco be able to clear homeless encampments? Last week, protesters and counter-protesters went head-to-head outside the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals over an injunction that limits the city’s ability to do that. KQED’s Sydney Johnson unpacks this legal battle, and explains why it has sparked such strong feelings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7775726450\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>London Breed: \u003c/strong>We are compassionate, we are supportive. We continue to help people. But this is not the way anything goes in San Francisco. It’s not the way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>It was a pretty tense scene outside a courthouse in San Francisco last week where Mayor London Breed and city leaders were protesting over one big question How much should the city be able to clear homeless encampments and move the people living there? The city has been under a court order that puts limits on encampment sweeps. And people in San Francisco have strong feelings about it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Fred Winograd: \u003c/strong>Outside of my door, someone can camp and stay there and not be moved because of this injunction. But that’s harmed the residents and the businesses of this city.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Terri Beswick: \u003c/strong>I love that the court took a stand on this and I hope that they stick to it and say, you know, you if you want people off the streets, you have to give them somewhere to stay.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Today, what this legal battle means for encampment sweeps in San Francisco and beyond.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>So essentially you have the Coalition on Homelessness, which is representing a group of individuals who are or were recently experiencing homelessness, who sued the city of San Francisco for essentially not following its own laws as it relates to clearing homeless encampments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Sydney Johnson is a reporter for KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>People representing different city agencies are meant to approach the people or person who lives there and ask them, you know, would you like shelter or some sort of housing option that has to happen in these sweeps. If there isn’t someone, you know, at the their belongings, but it’s clear that someone probably is staying there. The city also has a process that is called bag and tag, where they’re supposed to actually label the items and bring them to a place in the city where individuals can actually go and retrieve them. So all of those policies that we talked about offering shelter, bagging and tagging personal items, you know, these steps that are supposed to happen before an encampment is cleared. The plaintiffs in this case argued that the city had not been doing. Now, the city argues that it does lead with services, that it does do this, it understands and it does not deny that there is a huge additional need for more housing and for more temporary shelter. But the city says, you know, we do make these offers, we do follow our policies. But it’s arguing that the lawsuit has made it even more difficult for the city to respond to those calls that it gets from residents saying, hey, I’m concerned about this, you know, encampment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>The news last week was about this injunction. Can you explain to me what is it and what did it do exactly?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>Last September and 2022, that was when the lawsuit was first filed. That was when the coalition on homelessness sued the city of San Francisco just before Christmas Eve, also of last year. The judge granted a temporary injunction, which basically was a temporary order that said, hey, San Francisco, you cannot keep doing these encampment sweeps in the way that you’ve been doing it until you know this next step in the case. And that temporary injunction is still active right now. That doesn’t always mean that the city just can’t do anything right. If someone is breaking other laws while they’re sitting or lying. You know, that is a way that the city can still enforce its laws. The lawsuit came a bit to a head because there were two hearings. The city had tried to get the judge to release them from this injunction, and that was heard in a court. There were rallies happening outside on both ends, and it got pretty intense.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Protesters: \u003c/strong>[Chanting] Save our streets!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>News Anchor: \u003c/strong>Even before the hearing before the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals got underway. Both sides were arguing…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>There were some videos of people shouting directly at each other. However, you know, it did, I think, speak to just some of the frustration and also passion that people in San Francisco and across California right now really are feeling about this issue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, let’s dig into that a little bit more. Sydney, I want to start with the people who came out for this injunction, which to be clear means that they oppose the city doing sweeps more aggressively. Who came out last week on this side? Like, who is at the courthouse?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>So definitely lawyers from the ACLU and other attorneys who are representing the Coalition on homelessness were there. So all of those policies that we talked about just a minute ago, you know, these steps that are supposed to happen before an encampment is cleared. The plaintiffs in this case argued that the city had not been doing. In some circumstances, they said that city agencies would maybe just sort of wave a hand at shelter, not really genuinely offer it. In addition, they also had a lot of evidence showing that that bagging and tagging process was not being followed as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Zal Shroff \u003c/strong>Unhoused folks have a constitutional right against being policed out of sight just because they have no housing to go to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>Zal Shroff is the interim legal director with the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights of the San Francisco Bay Area. He’s been really involved in this case and essentially argues that San Francisco has not been following its own laws that are on the books and its own policies around what it can and can’t do to clear homeless encampments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Zal Shroff \u003c/strong>So you can’t go around seizing and destroying people’s tents. You have to safeguard their property. You have to store it. You have to give an opportunity to recover it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>It’s all essentially walked me through some examples where the city has, you know, flagrantly just disregarded some of those bag and tag policies. You know, told me some pretty heartbreaking stories of people who had lost really important medications, devices that they use to contact family members or even sign up for shelter, since that’s an online system now and that they had lost these items without much recourse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Zal Shroff \u003c/strong>The injunction goal was to have a disciplining effect to make sure the city’s goals were actually aligned with its actions, to make sure that when we actually approach an encampment, we have enough shelter. Folks, we are successful in getting them off the streets and into shelter and housing and the actually improving street homelessness conditions. That has not been the experience since the injunction because it’s very unclear whether or not they’re following it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>He is is really trying to underscore. Or that this lawsuit is not about just allowing the streets to delve into chaos. I don’t think anyone wants that. But, you know, he and others who are supporting this case say that the city needs to come up with actual solutions if it’s going to force people to move. And also just acknowledging the harm that is caused by forcing people to move.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Zal Shroff \u003c/strong>You know, I think we are, in a way talking past each other about the root causes of the homelessness crisis and also what causes street homelessness, because, of course, we know that a lack of access to shelter and a lack of access to affordable housing is the cause of the street homelessness crisis. And yet we have a huge gap in terms of what the city has been able to offer to actually mitigate that issue. And we see a real scapegoating about how people who are a problem that is really decades in the making.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, let’s talk about the other side of this debate. Who was at the courthouse on that side.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>The opposing rally that was there last week was really arguing for being able to clear encampments under most circumstances.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>London Breed: \u003c/strong>We are compassionate. We are supportive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>Outside the courthouse, we saw signs that said, you know, streets are not homes. We had a very fiery mayor London breed against the injunction, saying that the city should be able to clear encampments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>London Breed: \u003c/strong>We had prepared through our city attorney to do whatever it takes to make sure we are able to do our jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>She brought up some pretty hard examples that are really, I think, get to the emotion at the core of this issue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>London Breed: \u003c/strong>It is not humane to let people live on our streets in tents, use drugs. We have found dead bodies. We have found a dead baby in these tents. We have seen people in really awful conditions and we are not standing for it anymore. I am sick and tired of being sick and tired.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>You know, some pretty horrific and heartbreaking stories. You know, she did really rally a lot of that anger that people are having with seeing the poverty that they do see on the streets of San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>David Chiu \u003c/strong>Today, the city presented our case on why this injunction has been so difficult for San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>City attorney David Chiu was also there. He has been leading the case against this lawsuit and also the appeal against the injunction. You know, similarly, he said that the city’s hands have been tied when it comes to resolving these encampments that many people are complaining about.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>David Chiu \u003c/strong>I think everyone understands how incredibly challenging the situation is on the streets, how frustrating it has been. You only have to look out of the windows of the Ninth Circuit Courthouse building to see what’s happening in our streets. What the city’s hoping to do is balance the compassionate care and services that we want to provide to unhoused individuals with addressing the significant street conditions that we have throughout the city.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>We also saw three of the city’s more moderate supervisors, their supervisor, Mandelman, Engardio, and Dorsey. They were also there supporting David Chiu and supporting Mayor Breed, essentially arguing for the city to have more flexibility to carry out these sweeps.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I know the city says that it should have the right to sweep people out of an encampment, especially if they refuse offers of shelter or housing. Do we know how often that happens?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>That’s a hard question to answer. There are, of course, some individuals who may reject a shelter option for them. I think that that’s a reality that shouldn’t be denied. However, I think that more often there is just not shelter available or offered, or if there is shelter that’s offered, it’s not always appropriate if it’s a congregate group home where someone had stayed out previously and maybe had a really horrible experience that might not be an appropriate shelter for them. If someone is transgender and offered a shelter for a home that they do not identify with, if it’s separated by gender, that can be really harmful as well. Not to mention families or people with pets or, you know, certain disabilities that may prevent them from getting on a top bunk or something like that. This question of like what is genuine shelter and what is a real shelter offer, I think is a really important one because we know that shelter in general and housing in general is so scarce.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, it sounds like the city very much believes its hands are sort of tied under this injunction and also that a lot of the anger on this side comes from this sense that, like the city is being too lenient or too compassionate by having this injunction in place. Is that a good way, maybe to summarize?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I think so. I’d say that that side is is really arguing for basically putting cleaning the streets before the rights of people who are homeless and are forced to live on those streets.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What’s next, Sydney?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>There’s still a long way to go for this case. The judge is now considering the arguments over whether to appeal the injunction, but we probably won’t have an answer on that for a couple of weeks, maybe even a couple of months. And again, that is just for the injunction. So this temporary rule that the city cannot carry out sweeps in the way that it has been doing the full lawsuit and litigating, that is going to take even longer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean, do we know certainly whether there are implications beyond San Francisco here? Could this maybe escalate or even spread to other parts of the state that are dealing with, I mean, really the same problems that we’re seeing in San Francisco?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I think that this has big implications for the West Coast in general. I think, you know, whether you are a lawyer trying to think about civil rights in this space, whether you are a resident trying to be compassionate or better, understand homelessness in your area and looking for solutions. I think that there is a lot of interest and certainly a lot of feelings associated with this. And I think that that has also been part of why this has gripped so many people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Sydney, thanks so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sydney Johnson: \u003c/strong>Thanks, Ericka.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Sydney Johnson, a reporter for KQED. This 38-minute conversation with Sydney was cut down and edited by Maria Esquinca. It was produced and scored by senior editor Alan Montecillo. Thanks as well to Billy Cruz and KTVU for some of the tape that you heard in this episode. If you’re new to The Bay, what’s up? Make sure to hit subscribe wherever you are listening so you don’t miss a beat. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Thank you so much for listening. Talk to you next time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"slug": "belmont-students-honor-classmates-life-after-fentanyl-overdose",
"title": "Belmont Students Honor Classmate’s Life After Fentanyl Overdose",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"c-message_kit__blocks c-message_kit__blocks--rich_text\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"c-message__message_blocks c-message__message_blocks--rich_text\" data-qa=\"message-text\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-block_kit_renderer\" data-qa=\"block-kit-renderer\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-block_kit_renderer__block_wrapper p-block_kit_renderer__block_wrapper--first\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-rich_text_block\" dir=\"auto\">\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In 2021, students at Carlmont High School in Belmont were shocked when 17-year-old senior Colin Walker died of a fentanyl overdose. In this episode of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kalw.org/podcast/tbh-made-by-about-and-for-teenagers\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">TBH, \u003c/a>a podcast from KALW made by, for, and about teenagers, one of his classmates tells the story of how students honored Colin’s life after his death, and educated each other about the dangers of fentanyl.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Subscribe to TBH \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">at \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tbh/id1495120612\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/4TK5q90Jjh8ZzUeblTKo5W?si=8OJ-njINRQicTPoDD4eRgA\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Spotify\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/tbh-3\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Stitcher\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, or \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://radiopublic.com/tbh-WR3rxO\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Radio Public\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC2510188224&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted in 2021. Tragedy hit Carlmont High School in San Mateo County after a 17-year-old senior named Colin Walker died of a fentanyl overdose. It left students, the community and all those who knew him shocked. But deaths like these are not uncommon. In 2021, fentanyl was behind one in five deaths among young people, ages 15 to 24 in California. So how do students process tragedies like this at their schools? And how are young people looking for solutions to the crisis of drug overdoses? Those are questions The students behind the TBH podcast from CA LW tried to answer. TBH is made by about and for teenagers and anyone who wants to hear what’s on the minds of young people. So today we’re going to hear them out and we’ll bring you the story of how students sought to honor Colin’s life and spread awareness about fentanyl. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Miriam Reichenberg: \u003c/strong>This is TBH. I’m Miriam Reichenberg, and I’m a junior at Berkeley High School. This podcast is made by about and for teenagers and for anybody else who wants to hear what’s on our minds. Today’s episode is about how fentanyl overdoses are impacting teenagers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Unknown: \u003c/strong>It’s easy to distance ourselves from the issue, and it’s easy to believe, Oh, this could never happen to me or somebody in my family or my community, and that it does.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Miriam Reichenberg: \u003c/strong>California is seeing a rise in overdose deaths among young people, and that spike is driven by fentanyl, a drug 50 times stronger than heroin and 100 times more powerful than morphine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Excerpt from “Fentanyl High”: \u003c/strong>I don’t want to have to tell any other parents that their child has died because of fentanyl.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Miriam Reichenberg: \u003c/strong>That’s from a documentary called “Fentanyl High”, directed by Kyle Santoro, a senior at Los Gatos High School. He made the film because he wanted to explore how fentanyl kills and how teens are dealing with emotional pain of Fentanyl deaths. In 2020, two students at his high school fatally overdosed on fentanyl.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kyle Santoro: \u003c/strong>Our principal held a kid dying in his arms before paramedics able to revive him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Miriam Reichenberg: \u003c/strong>In today’s episode, we’ll hear about a school community and a family doing as much as they can to prevent overdose deaths. One of our producers at TBH. Clearly, Carolina Cuadros didn’t know much about fentanyl until a classmate fatally overdosed. She recently graduated from Karma High School in Belmont, a city in San Mateo County. Here’s Carolina’s story on spreading awareness in the aftermath of tragedy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>From my perspective, trends are the downfall of our modern society. They fade away just as fast as they emerge. I’ve seen it happen so many times at my school, Carlmont High School. This pattern can seem harmless when it comes to how we dress or what we eat. But simply moving on from one social or political cause to the next can have consequences. And so can failing to address tragedies in a meaningful way. I observed an outlier my junior year of high school when my classmates refused to move on. This was in 2021 after a high school senior named Colin Walker, lost his life after fatally overdosing on a drug laced with fentanyl.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Liz Walker: \u003c/strong>But we don’t want it to be the only thing that we remember about Colin, you know…how he died.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>Elizabeth Walker is Colin’s mom…she goes by Liz, and says she and her family is still trying to put one foot in front of the other. Liz says Colin loved nature, going on adventures, and making everyone laugh.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Liz Walker: \u003c/strong>Colin was just a go, go, go active, sporty, funny kid from the beginning. He was, I mean, he was huge. He was a good kid, seeming to go in the right direction.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>But she said something inside him changed during his sophomore year of high school. Colin struggled with anxiety and depression, a battle that worsened during quarantine. To cope, Liz said, he brought drugs sold on Snapchat.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Liz Walker: \u003c/strong>Colin wasn’t taking the drugs because he was just this happy kid who wanted to party. He was really struggling with being alone and COVID didn’t make it easy and feeling completely just desperate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>The last time he bought cocaine, it was laced with fentanyl. Liz says Snapchat has made it possible to order drugs as easily as ordering pizza. COVID, the opioid crisis, and easy access to drugs were all coming together at once…and her son was in the middle of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Liz Walker: \u003c/strong>Early on. I mean, like as if the day he died, I knew that we weren’t going to just tell people he died of a mysterious illness or passed away suddenly in his sleep. There was no doubt with me and my husband that, you know, we knew right away fentanyl was involved.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>One in five deaths in California among young people…ages 15 to 24… were caused by fentanyl in 2021. That’s according to analysis of data from the San Jose Mercury News. Fentanyl overdose is not limited to those who knowingly consume the drug. College students taking cocaine to study late at night. Teenagers experimenting with weed for the first time with their friends. The reality is that overdose deaths are impacting everyone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Liz Walker: \u003c/strong>The kids that are dying right now. Are getting like the equivalent of two grains of salt. And they’re dying and that they’re not intentionally taking it. They’re buying something on Snapchat. It’s not what they thought. And it’s killing them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>Colin’s death was the first time most of the students at Carlmont high school lost a classmate. My friend, Chesney Evert, was part of the journalism program at the school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Chesney Evert: \u003c/strong>I remember sitting in class and our teachers put this like statement on the board about Colin, Colin’s passing and. Like there were just such a range of emotions from both me and all of my friends. Anger one that this had happened to a person so young and a person our age who is just about to graduate high school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>I was there too. I remember grieving his life with all my classmates, especially with my peers in the school’s journalism program. I also grieved the loss of innocence at our school. The mindset of “ we are untouchable!” disappeared.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Chesney Evert: \u003c/strong>This issue was becoming so prevalent that even our bubble of the Bay Area couldn’t protect us. Grief and sadness on behalf of him and his family, who, you know, lost a really incredible person. And at the same time, I remember seeing the opportunity for this story to really change the way that we in our community thought about drug use and the dangers of drug use.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>Every other month, tragic events occur around the world, and Scot Scoop Carlmont High School’s nationally recognized journalism publication covers them. California wildfires, the Ukraine crisis, the Turkey- Syria earthquakes. These have been the main topics of conversation for the student body – for about a week each time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Chesney Evert: \u003c/strong>The way our news cycle functions in the present day, we almost become immune to these tragedies that are so impactful and raw and real.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>After that, I’d see the topic disappear from the public’s attention. We would move on, forget, and stop actively caring. This was exactly what Scot Scoop set itself to break with Colin Walker.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Chesney Evert: \u003c/strong>And I think I wanted to make sure that this issue was not met with that same immunity because it shouldn’t be the loss of a young person to something as prevalent and dangerous as fentanyl is something that should be highlighted and remembered.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>And she would do just that. But it would take time. She and her classmates waited to report on this, until Colin’s family was ready.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Chesney Evert: \u003c/strong>So we at Carmont Journalism had a death policy in place. I believe that we’d never had to use it or we just wrote it following his passing. There was something along those lines, but we wanted to give the family and community enough time to grieve. Right. We weren’t. We don’t want to jump in on this coverage because obviously, it doesn’t serve anybody.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>Eventually, Colin’s family did reach out at the beginning of 2022. They wanted the school publication to report on Colin’s story and the broader issue of fentanyl lacing. And so the team got to work on what became a massive multimedia project. Chesney led a group of six journalists who worked on multiple platforms…podcast production, video production, news features, and data visuals. Chesney worked closely with the family to make sure the story was delivered accurately, and that the family was comfortable with what they planned to publish. She says writing the story actually pushed her to almost rewrite her own code of journalism ethics. For example, she allowed Liz to read the story before publication.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Chesney Evert: \u003c/strong>So what I remember is Colin’s mom, Liz, made some she’s she’s very funny. She has a great sense of humor, and she made some quip about Panda Express or something, and we put it being Colin’s favorite food.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>In one of the drafts, Liz left a note about wanting to leave out the details about Panda Express.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Chesney Evert: \u003c/strong>When you think of “professional journalism”, those aren’t always the moments that you see highlighted in stories. But we as a team decided that, no, that was the exact, the very human, very real and relatable evidence of a mother son relationship that we really wanted to keep in this piece.\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>The package, titled “They Didn’t ask for Fentanyl” was published in March of 2022. The pieces educated the school community on fentanyl lacing described who Colin was and what led to his death. The stories also explained potential solutions…like the widespread use of naloxone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Anoushka Amekerira: \u003c/strong>Users often don’t know that drugs contain fentanyl. It’s not just the Walker family that was impacted by this devastation. The teen death epidemic from fentanyl poisoning is increasing each year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>Anoushka Amekerira, my friend and co managing editor, worked on the audio aspect of the project. It featured an interview with the co-founder of songs for charlie, an organization Liz and her family worked with to raise awareness about fentanyl lacing. Anoushka says this all provided students with an education they weren’t finding anywhere else.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Anoushka Amekerira: \u003c/strong>There were definitely, like students reaching out to me who I’d never talked to before, and they were like, Hey, I learned a lot from your audio package. Like, I think it was really beneficial that you put that out there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>The student population was eager to learn and hear from other students about an issue that hit so close to home. The students who worked on the journalism project — were invited to participate in a discussion about the fentanyl crisis – during a presentation in the school’s auditorium.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Anoushka Amekerira: \u003c/strong>We got to hear more stories and like how our project kind of sparked more conversations in the community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>Colin’s mom, Liz Walker, has continued to work with the high school to spread awareness. She spoke to the freshman during an assembly this past year about fentanyl lacing. She’s planning to do the same this year to keep everyone informed, especially those who did not attend Carlmont during the time of Colin’s death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Liz Walker: \u003c/strong>if you’re personally going to school and someone dies in your high school from drunk driving or from a drug overdose or suicide, there is going to be more awareness. Is that, you know, is that going to prevent? All future deaths? No, but maybe some.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>Looking back, I didn’t even know what the word fentanyl meant before Colin’s death. Thanks to the journalism team and his family, my peers and I learned enough about fentanyl to teach others about it…continue educating ourselves…and hopefully, prevent more deaths.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Miriam Reichenberg: \u003c/strong>Thanks, Carolina. That story came from Carolina Cuadros, a recent graduate of Carlmont High School, who’s now a freshman at UC Berkeley. The story Carolina brought us is sadly not one we haven’t heard before. When a tragic death like Colin’s happens, instead of focusing on the stigma of using drugs, we should focus on preventative measures, educating our communities and processing collective grief. Just as the Carlmont Journalism program did. At Berkeley High, there have been four student deaths in the time I’ve been a student there. This is not insignificant. Each death was very sad and hit the school community hard. I know that I appreciated how my school community came together to memorialize these kids. In one such instance, my sophomore history teacher took the class to meet and talk with the student’s parents. While not a drug-related death, meeting the student’s family members was a meaningful and personal part of the grieving process for many. Thanks for listening to these stories on TBH Podcast from KALW Public Radio. This podcast relies on you to help spread the word. So, please take a minute to give us a rating or take two and give us a review. Help us get our voices to others so they can hear what we have to say. Holly J. McDede, edited and taught along with Sarah Lai Stirland. Lauren Tran-Muchowski is our production assistant. Our artwork was created by [unknown]. [Unkown] Johnson and James Rowlands are our engineers. [unknown] is our supervising editor. Ben Trefny is our executive director. This project was made possible with support from the Association for Continuing Education, the California Arts Council and the Silicon Valley Community Foundation. Next time on tbe Age will take on anxiety and action in the face of the climate apocalypse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Unknown: \u003c/strong>So I think we should do our part in day to day and do whatever we can to help the environment so that we don’t die.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Miriam Reichenberg: \u003c/strong>Talk to you next time. I’m your host, Miriam Reichenberg.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cdiv class=\"c-message_kit__blocks c-message_kit__blocks--rich_text\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"c-message__message_blocks c-message__message_blocks--rich_text\" data-qa=\"message-text\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-block_kit_renderer\" data-qa=\"block-kit-renderer\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-block_kit_renderer__block_wrapper p-block_kit_renderer__block_wrapper--first\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-rich_text_block\" dir=\"auto\">\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In 2021, students at Carlmont High School in Belmont were shocked when 17-year-old senior Colin Walker died of a fentanyl overdose. In this episode of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kalw.org/podcast/tbh-made-by-about-and-for-teenagers\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">TBH, \u003c/a>a podcast from KALW made by, for, and about teenagers, one of his classmates tells the story of how students honored Colin’s life after his death, and educated each other about the dangers of fentanyl.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Subscribe to TBH \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">at \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tbh/id1495120612\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Apple Podcasts\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/4TK5q90Jjh8ZzUeblTKo5W?si=8OJ-njINRQicTPoDD4eRgA\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Spotify\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/tbh-3\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Stitcher\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, or \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://radiopublic.com/tbh-WR3rxO\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Radio Public\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC2510188224&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted in 2021. Tragedy hit Carlmont High School in San Mateo County after a 17-year-old senior named Colin Walker died of a fentanyl overdose. It left students, the community and all those who knew him shocked. But deaths like these are not uncommon. In 2021, fentanyl was behind one in five deaths among young people, ages 15 to 24 in California. So how do students process tragedies like this at their schools? And how are young people looking for solutions to the crisis of drug overdoses? Those are questions The students behind the TBH podcast from CA LW tried to answer. TBH is made by about and for teenagers and anyone who wants to hear what’s on the minds of young people. So today we’re going to hear them out and we’ll bring you the story of how students sought to honor Colin’s life and spread awareness about fentanyl. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Miriam Reichenberg: \u003c/strong>This is TBH. I’m Miriam Reichenberg, and I’m a junior at Berkeley High School. This podcast is made by about and for teenagers and for anybody else who wants to hear what’s on our minds. Today’s episode is about how fentanyl overdoses are impacting teenagers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Unknown: \u003c/strong>It’s easy to distance ourselves from the issue, and it’s easy to believe, Oh, this could never happen to me or somebody in my family or my community, and that it does.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Miriam Reichenberg: \u003c/strong>California is seeing a rise in overdose deaths among young people, and that spike is driven by fentanyl, a drug 50 times stronger than heroin and 100 times more powerful than morphine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Excerpt from “Fentanyl High”: \u003c/strong>I don’t want to have to tell any other parents that their child has died because of fentanyl.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Miriam Reichenberg: \u003c/strong>That’s from a documentary called “Fentanyl High”, directed by Kyle Santoro, a senior at Los Gatos High School. He made the film because he wanted to explore how fentanyl kills and how teens are dealing with emotional pain of Fentanyl deaths. In 2020, two students at his high school fatally overdosed on fentanyl.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kyle Santoro: \u003c/strong>Our principal held a kid dying in his arms before paramedics able to revive him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Miriam Reichenberg: \u003c/strong>In today’s episode, we’ll hear about a school community and a family doing as much as they can to prevent overdose deaths. One of our producers at TBH. Clearly, Carolina Cuadros didn’t know much about fentanyl until a classmate fatally overdosed. She recently graduated from Karma High School in Belmont, a city in San Mateo County. Here’s Carolina’s story on spreading awareness in the aftermath of tragedy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>From my perspective, trends are the downfall of our modern society. They fade away just as fast as they emerge. I’ve seen it happen so many times at my school, Carlmont High School. This pattern can seem harmless when it comes to how we dress or what we eat. But simply moving on from one social or political cause to the next can have consequences. And so can failing to address tragedies in a meaningful way. I observed an outlier my junior year of high school when my classmates refused to move on. This was in 2021 after a high school senior named Colin Walker, lost his life after fatally overdosing on a drug laced with fentanyl.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Liz Walker: \u003c/strong>But we don’t want it to be the only thing that we remember about Colin, you know…how he died.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>Elizabeth Walker is Colin’s mom…she goes by Liz, and says she and her family is still trying to put one foot in front of the other. Liz says Colin loved nature, going on adventures, and making everyone laugh.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Liz Walker: \u003c/strong>Colin was just a go, go, go active, sporty, funny kid from the beginning. He was, I mean, he was huge. He was a good kid, seeming to go in the right direction.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>But she said something inside him changed during his sophomore year of high school. Colin struggled with anxiety and depression, a battle that worsened during quarantine. To cope, Liz said, he brought drugs sold on Snapchat.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Liz Walker: \u003c/strong>Colin wasn’t taking the drugs because he was just this happy kid who wanted to party. He was really struggling with being alone and COVID didn’t make it easy and feeling completely just desperate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>The last time he bought cocaine, it was laced with fentanyl. Liz says Snapchat has made it possible to order drugs as easily as ordering pizza. COVID, the opioid crisis, and easy access to drugs were all coming together at once…and her son was in the middle of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Liz Walker: \u003c/strong>Early on. I mean, like as if the day he died, I knew that we weren’t going to just tell people he died of a mysterious illness or passed away suddenly in his sleep. There was no doubt with me and my husband that, you know, we knew right away fentanyl was involved.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>One in five deaths in California among young people…ages 15 to 24… were caused by fentanyl in 2021. That’s according to analysis of data from the San Jose Mercury News. Fentanyl overdose is not limited to those who knowingly consume the drug. College students taking cocaine to study late at night. Teenagers experimenting with weed for the first time with their friends. The reality is that overdose deaths are impacting everyone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Liz Walker: \u003c/strong>The kids that are dying right now. Are getting like the equivalent of two grains of salt. And they’re dying and that they’re not intentionally taking it. They’re buying something on Snapchat. It’s not what they thought. And it’s killing them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>Colin’s death was the first time most of the students at Carlmont high school lost a classmate. My friend, Chesney Evert, was part of the journalism program at the school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Chesney Evert: \u003c/strong>I remember sitting in class and our teachers put this like statement on the board about Colin, Colin’s passing and. Like there were just such a range of emotions from both me and all of my friends. Anger one that this had happened to a person so young and a person our age who is just about to graduate high school.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>I was there too. I remember grieving his life with all my classmates, especially with my peers in the school’s journalism program. I also grieved the loss of innocence at our school. The mindset of “ we are untouchable!” disappeared.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Chesney Evert: \u003c/strong>This issue was becoming so prevalent that even our bubble of the Bay Area couldn’t protect us. Grief and sadness on behalf of him and his family, who, you know, lost a really incredible person. And at the same time, I remember seeing the opportunity for this story to really change the way that we in our community thought about drug use and the dangers of drug use.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>Every other month, tragic events occur around the world, and Scot Scoop Carlmont High School’s nationally recognized journalism publication covers them. California wildfires, the Ukraine crisis, the Turkey- Syria earthquakes. These have been the main topics of conversation for the student body – for about a week each time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Chesney Evert: \u003c/strong>The way our news cycle functions in the present day, we almost become immune to these tragedies that are so impactful and raw and real.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>After that, I’d see the topic disappear from the public’s attention. We would move on, forget, and stop actively caring. This was exactly what Scot Scoop set itself to break with Colin Walker.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Chesney Evert: \u003c/strong>And I think I wanted to make sure that this issue was not met with that same immunity because it shouldn’t be the loss of a young person to something as prevalent and dangerous as fentanyl is something that should be highlighted and remembered.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>And she would do just that. But it would take time. She and her classmates waited to report on this, until Colin’s family was ready.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Chesney Evert: \u003c/strong>So we at Carmont Journalism had a death policy in place. I believe that we’d never had to use it or we just wrote it following his passing. There was something along those lines, but we wanted to give the family and community enough time to grieve. Right. We weren’t. We don’t want to jump in on this coverage because obviously, it doesn’t serve anybody.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>Eventually, Colin’s family did reach out at the beginning of 2022. They wanted the school publication to report on Colin’s story and the broader issue of fentanyl lacing. And so the team got to work on what became a massive multimedia project. Chesney led a group of six journalists who worked on multiple platforms…podcast production, video production, news features, and data visuals. Chesney worked closely with the family to make sure the story was delivered accurately, and that the family was comfortable with what they planned to publish. She says writing the story actually pushed her to almost rewrite her own code of journalism ethics. For example, she allowed Liz to read the story before publication.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Chesney Evert: \u003c/strong>So what I remember is Colin’s mom, Liz, made some she’s she’s very funny. She has a great sense of humor, and she made some quip about Panda Express or something, and we put it being Colin’s favorite food.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>In one of the drafts, Liz left a note about wanting to leave out the details about Panda Express.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Chesney Evert: \u003c/strong>When you think of “professional journalism”, those aren’t always the moments that you see highlighted in stories. But we as a team decided that, no, that was the exact, the very human, very real and relatable evidence of a mother son relationship that we really wanted to keep in this piece.\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>The package, titled “They Didn’t ask for Fentanyl” was published in March of 2022. The pieces educated the school community on fentanyl lacing described who Colin was and what led to his death. The stories also explained potential solutions…like the widespread use of naloxone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Anoushka Amekerira: \u003c/strong>Users often don’t know that drugs contain fentanyl. It’s not just the Walker family that was impacted by this devastation. The teen death epidemic from fentanyl poisoning is increasing each year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>Anoushka Amekerira, my friend and co managing editor, worked on the audio aspect of the project. It featured an interview with the co-founder of songs for charlie, an organization Liz and her family worked with to raise awareness about fentanyl lacing. Anoushka says this all provided students with an education they weren’t finding anywhere else.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Anoushka Amekerira: \u003c/strong>There were definitely, like students reaching out to me who I’d never talked to before, and they were like, Hey, I learned a lot from your audio package. Like, I think it was really beneficial that you put that out there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>The student population was eager to learn and hear from other students about an issue that hit so close to home. The students who worked on the journalism project — were invited to participate in a discussion about the fentanyl crisis – during a presentation in the school’s auditorium.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Anoushka Amekerira: \u003c/strong>We got to hear more stories and like how our project kind of sparked more conversations in the community.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>Colin’s mom, Liz Walker, has continued to work with the high school to spread awareness. She spoke to the freshman during an assembly this past year about fentanyl lacing. She’s planning to do the same this year to keep everyone informed, especially those who did not attend Carlmont during the time of Colin’s death.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Liz Walker: \u003c/strong>if you’re personally going to school and someone dies in your high school from drunk driving or from a drug overdose or suicide, there is going to be more awareness. Is that, you know, is that going to prevent? All future deaths? No, but maybe some.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Carolina Cuadros: \u003c/strong>Looking back, I didn’t even know what the word fentanyl meant before Colin’s death. Thanks to the journalism team and his family, my peers and I learned enough about fentanyl to teach others about it…continue educating ourselves…and hopefully, prevent more deaths.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Miriam Reichenberg: \u003c/strong>Thanks, Carolina. That story came from Carolina Cuadros, a recent graduate of Carlmont High School, who’s now a freshman at UC Berkeley. The story Carolina brought us is sadly not one we haven’t heard before. When a tragic death like Colin’s happens, instead of focusing on the stigma of using drugs, we should focus on preventative measures, educating our communities and processing collective grief. Just as the Carlmont Journalism program did. At Berkeley High, there have been four student deaths in the time I’ve been a student there. This is not insignificant. Each death was very sad and hit the school community hard. I know that I appreciated how my school community came together to memorialize these kids. In one such instance, my sophomore history teacher took the class to meet and talk with the student’s parents. While not a drug-related death, meeting the student’s family members was a meaningful and personal part of the grieving process for many. Thanks for listening to these stories on TBH Podcast from KALW Public Radio. This podcast relies on you to help spread the word. So, please take a minute to give us a rating or take two and give us a review. Help us get our voices to others so they can hear what we have to say. Holly J. McDede, edited and taught along with Sarah Lai Stirland. Lauren Tran-Muchowski is our production assistant. Our artwork was created by [unknown]. [Unkown] Johnson and James Rowlands are our engineers. [unknown] is our supervising editor. Ben Trefny is our executive director. This project was made possible with support from the Association for Continuing Education, the California Arts Council and the Silicon Valley Community Foundation. Next time on tbe Age will take on anxiety and action in the face of the climate apocalypse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Unknown: \u003c/strong>So I think we should do our part in day to day and do whatever we can to help the environment so that we don’t die.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Miriam Reichenberg: \u003c/strong>Talk to you next time. I’m your host, Miriam Reichenberg.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"title": "The Bay's August News Roundup: San José Strike Averted, Henrietta Lacks’ Family Sues, and A Mysterious Land Purchase in Solano County",
"headTitle": "The Bay’s August News Roundup: San José Strike Averted, Henrietta Lacks’ Family Sues, and A Mysterious Land Purchase in Solano County | KQED",
"content": "\u003cp dir=\"ltr\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp dir=\"ltr\">We bring you 3 stories a week, but there’s so much more that’s happening in the Bay Area than we can get to. Today, Ericka, Maria and Alan each bring a story they’ve been following in a new monthly news roundup segment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC6539131865&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp dir=\"ltr\">\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli dir=\"ltr\">\n\u003cp dir=\"ltr\" role=\"presentation\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11957208/near-1-billion-land-purchase-around-california-air-base-under-investigation\">Near $1 Billion Land Purchase Around California Air Base Under Investigation\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/li>\n\u003cli dir=\"ltr\">\n\u003cp dir=\"ltr\" role=\"presentation\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11958290/san-jose-city-council-approves-agreements-with-unions-to-avoid-strike\">San Jose City Council Approves Agreements With Unions to Avoid Strike\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/li>\n\u003cli dir=\"ltr\">\n\u003cp dir=\"ltr\" role=\"presentation\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/henrietta-lacks-lawsuit-18290615.php\">Henrietta Lacks’ Family Sues Bay Area Company Over Use of Stolen Cells\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. And welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. Today I’ve got senior editor Alan Montecillo in the studio with me. Hey, Alan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Hi.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I also have our producer, Maria Esquinca. What’s up, Maria?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>Hello.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And here’s the deal. We’re kind of doing something a little different today. We only get three slots a week to bring you a story. And there’s so much happening in the Bay Area that we definitely cannot get into. Can you talk a little bit more about that, Maria?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so I think three slots sounds like a lot, but there’s a lot going on in the Bay Area, so we don’t always really get to talk about things that we’re really interested about. And so yeah, I think we are all news people and we all have other things that we want to talk about and we thought this would be like a cool idea to bring something a little bit different.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Right. So, today we’re bringing you a little peek into what we call the white board. Alan, can you explain what the white board is or was, I guess?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Well, until March of 2020, I was a literal white board, and I hold office, which included everything from our plans for the week, you know, meetings that we had to go to and stuff, but really story ideas. The white board is now a Google doc.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Thanks to the pandemic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Yeah. And so we wanted to just give listeners a peek into some of the other things that each of us individually has been following beyond the sort of three-day-a-week deep-dive kind of storytelling that folks are used to hearing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>All right. So today, me, Maria and Alan, the Bay team are going to talk about three stories that were on our radars this month. Alan, I will start with you. What story did you pick?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Well, my story is more of an update to an episode we did earlier this month, and that’s the San Jose City workers strike, or lack thereof. Actually, there was going to be a strike with about 4500 city workers beginning Tuesday the 15th. But at the last minute, the city council and the two unions representing those workers reached a tentative deal and the strike was called off.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And it was actually going to be one of the biggest strikes in the city’s history, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Yeah, By some estimates, it would have been the largest strike of that size in San Jose since the 1980s. I mean, it would have been enormous. You’re talking about workers from the airport to the zoo to the libraries, not fire and police and not garbage. But there’s no doubt this strike would have had a huge impact.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So, what happened? How did they what was the deal that they came to?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>So, there are a number of things in the tentative agreement. I mean, these negotiations are always very complex with pay and benefits. But really the sticking point has always been about wage increases. And so initially the two unions wanted pay increases over three fiscal years of 7%, 6% and 5%. And then the city’s offer was 5%, 4%, 3% over that same period. So seven, six five versus five, four, three. In a literal sense, the two sides really did meet in the middle on this because the agreement that was reached was for 6% the first fiscal year, 5% the second fiscal year, and 4% the next fiscal year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>So, back when we did our episode on this with Guy Marzorati, I remember that the mayor wasn’t exactly too enthused about potentially reaching a deal. I think his concern was reopening the budget. And I think since the deal, he kind of came out with similar sentiments. But I’m curious, where does he stand now and where does the rest of the city council stand in there as well?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I mean, I think Mayor Matt Mahan would have been happy if they did reach a deal and the deal stuck at 5% because that’s the number that he really wanted. Now, it’s important to note that the mayor is not the chief decider on this. It’s the city council. And actually that they’re the ones who empower the city manager to negotiate with the unions, I should say, voted to approve this sort of six, five, four compromise. And Mahan came out again and said he wasn’t happy with this deal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Matt Mahan: \u003c/strong>But our council did not do its job. Our leaders were elected to represent the people and the needs of the people took a backseat.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>He felt like the city couldn’t afford it. He had said in the past that if you go too high, the council would have to go back into the budget that they already approved to try and find the money to reach to go up from that 5% that they budgeted for up to 6%, and that that would mean cuts in important services. But in the end, I mean, Mahan was outvoted. You know, he is the mayor. He’s the most public face of the city. But he was only one vote on the city council. Another council member who was really pushing to bring the council back and negotiate over this was Pam Foley. She said, look, you know, this compromise was necessary to keep city services running.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pam Foley: \u003c/strong>We really depend on public works, Department of Transportation, Parks and Rec, all of those staff to help make life easier for our residents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>So I’m kind of curious, like what happens next, Alan?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Well, actually, as we’re taping on this, the union is voting on it right now. They’re widely expected to approve the deal. I mean, workers, that guy kind of circled back with from his original reporting said that they are pleased to see this increase. Assuming the union approves it and the council will have to go back into the budget that they passed and find ways to get up to that 6% pay increase. And we’ll see if what Mayor Mahan says is true, you know, whether or not the council really will need to make cuts in other areas that will harm residents in other ways, or maybe that won’t be the case. Maybe there will be money elsewhere and areas that residents won’t notice. We’ll just have to see how it goes. I mean, you know, budget stuff is is not the most exciting thing, but in the end, it’s about providing services to residents. So we’ll see what happens.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Okay. Now it’s actually my turn. And I’ve got this really interesting story out of Fairfield of Solano County, the 707 say it backwards. Basically, what’s happening is that there is a new land owner in Solano County. Actually, they’re now the biggest land owners in the entire county, and no one knows who they are. So this is a story that was actually first reported by The Wall Street Journal, and it’s about this investment firm called Flannery Associates. And this firm purchased 50,000 acres of land in Solano County for nearly $1,000,000,000, an amount that the investment firm itself has acknowledged is actually way over market value. So they spent a lot of a lot of money on this land. And what’s interesting about this story is that it’s. Not just any land. It’s actually this sort of dry, agricultural, grazing land that now surrounds the Travis Air Force Base on three sides.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>I’m curious, like, what are people saying or talking about?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>It’s actually raising a lot of red flags, especially among lawmakers who represent this area for them, like what’s happening here and the fact that there is so much that we don’t know about who is buying this land is raising a lot of actually national security concerns because of just the significance of Travis Air Force Base. So I have this clip from John Garamendi, who is a Democrat who represents this part of Solano County, just kind of talking about how important Travis Air Force Base is.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>John Garamendi \u003c/strong>Travis Air Force Base is absolutely a critical national defense. The munitions for Ukraine. A lot of that flights out of Travis Air Force Base all the way to Poland. And it is also the gateway to the Pacific. So what’s happening here? We don’t know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Are there any theories as to who might be behind Flannery? Because that clip you played from Congressman Garamendi suggests that he – I mean, he specifically is suggesting that this is some sort of national security risk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Right. The Wall Street Journal reported that Flannery had previously told the county that the entity is basically just a bunch of American and European families looking to diversify their portfolio. And The Hill reported that the firm is registered as an agricultural company. We also know from The Wall Street Journal that Flannery is registered actually in Delaware, where I didn’t know this, but L.L.C.’s don’t have to publicly disclose the identity of their owners in Delaware. So, that sort of adds to the like difficulty around figuring out who these people actually are. But yeah, it’s just sort of a weird story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>It’s spooky.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Actually, the FBI and the Treasury Department and the Department of Defense are all now investigating Flannery and its investments. And the reason why is because there is sort of context to this story, which is that there was a previous attempt by a Chinese owned firm to buy up land in North Dakota. And this was a purchase that the Air Force base there had opposed, citing national security risk. So, there is this fear that being so close to an an Air Force base like Travis kind of sort of opened the door for spying. But KQED has reported that there is no evidence so far to suggest that Flannery has ties with China.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Do we have any idea what these folks want to do with this land?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>The most we know is that earlier this week, the mayor of Fairfield, Catherine Moy, actually posted something on Facebook about how she’s been hearing from Solano County residents about this, a supposed poll that has been sent out by Flannery to Solano County residents that kind of outlines a sort of proposal for what they want to do with the land. And it includes a plan to build tens of thousands of new homes, a large solar energy farm, orchards with over a million new trees and over 10,000 acres of new parks and open space. I mean, I think it’s still kind of unclear what exactly is going to happen with this land. But I think at the end of the day, we still have no idea who is behind Flannery.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>It’s also a little strange that the most info we know is coming from a poll that the mayor is finding out secondhand.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah, definitely. And also it’s kind of strange that this kind of came out on Facebook when there’s also like an FBI and federal investigations into this group. So, yeah, I guess it remains to be seen who exactly is behind Flannery and why are they so interested in Fairfield. So that is my story. Last but not least, Maria. What story is on your radar this month?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>So, a story that stood out to me was the story about the family of Henrietta Lacks. They’re suing a Bay Area company called Ultragenyx Pharmaceutical based in Novato.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Henrietta Lacks is a pretty, I’d say pretty famous name, but I don’t know if everyone remembers her story. So can you remind us about that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>We have to go back to 1951 Henrietta Lacks. She was a black woman at the time that had cervical cancer, and she was being treated for Johns Hopkins. And basically doctors took her cells from her womb without her consent or without her knowledge. And the reason they they did that was because at the time, they were kind of trying to see if cells could survive out of the body. They had not been able to do this with anyone. But Henrietta’s cells were different. She she’s actually described as miraculous. Some people have called her cells an immortal cell line because once they were outside of her body, they didn’t instantly die and they were actually able to reproduce every 24 to 48 hours. Her cells have contributed, I think, to all of our lives. Her cells have been used to create the polio vaccine. They helped create the COVID vaccine. They’ve helped with genetic mapping, cancer care, HIV treatment. But this all happened without her consent. It was a very clear case of medical racism. And her family has obviously very strong feelings about this. One of her granddaughters, Kimberly Lux, spoke about just her grandmother just sitting there not knowing what was going on with her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kimberley Lacks: \u003c/strong>I think about my grandmother, as I said before, laying and then hospital room and how they came in there when she had radiation going through her body in horrific pain. But all they were concerned about was taken cell tissues from her body.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So you mentioned that this actually happened to Henrietta at Johns Hopkins, but what connection does the story have to the Bay Area?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>So, the connection to the Bay Area is that the family is suing this Bay Area pharmaceutical company that does gene therapy because they argue that they’ve benefited from her cells and they – this is like a multibillion dollar company and they have been successful with a similar case. In 2021, they sued another pharmaceutical company. And this year, actually the beginning of this month, they reached a settlement with that company.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So, basically they’re suing this Bay Area company for profiting off of these cells.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>Exactly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kimberley Lacks: \u003c/strong>Has the family or their attorney said anything about this case specifically against Ultragenyx in Novato?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>No, specifically about ultragenyx. The family attorney ben crump actually was on democracy now! And he does talk about how the lawsuit is based on this idea of genetic justice and this belief that justice should flow from like one family to the next.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Attorney for Henrietta Lacks’ Family: \u003c/strong>If you are unjustly rich from the wrong doing, then you should not be allowed to continue to benefit the pearl of the victim, which is Henrietta Lacks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>At the time they were specifically talking about this other settlement that just happened, but he did mention that they are that they plan to sue other other pharmaceutical companies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, that is it for the day’s first ever August news roundup. There’s still so much more on our whiteboard that we did not get to, but at least we got to do three more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>We be here a long time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We be here a real long time. Maria and Alan, thank you all so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Before we go, just a little fact check. In this episode, Alan said that the agreement between the city of San Jose and its workers would provide a 4% raise in the fiscal year beginning July 2025. It’s actually 3.5%. Unless the city has a surplus of $10 million or more. If that happens, workers will get 4%. If you’re interested in reading more about the stories that we talked about today, peep the links in our show notes. The Bay is made by senior editor Alan Montecillo, producer Maria Esquinca, and me. Shout out as well to the rest of the podcast squad here at KQED. That’s Jen Chien, the director of podcasts; Katie Sprenger, our podcast operations manager. We also get audience engagement support from César Saldaña. And Holly Kernan is our chief content officer. We’re a production of member-supported, people-powered KQED in San Francisco. Thanks for listening. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp dir=\"ltr\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp dir=\"ltr\">We bring you 3 stories a week, but there’s so much more that’s happening in the Bay Area than we can get to. Today, Ericka, Maria and Alan each bring a story they’ve been following in a new monthly news roundup segment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC6539131865&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp dir=\"ltr\">\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli dir=\"ltr\">\n\u003cp dir=\"ltr\" role=\"presentation\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11957208/near-1-billion-land-purchase-around-california-air-base-under-investigation\">Near $1 Billion Land Purchase Around California Air Base Under Investigation\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/li>\n\u003cli dir=\"ltr\">\n\u003cp dir=\"ltr\" role=\"presentation\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11958290/san-jose-city-council-approves-agreements-with-unions-to-avoid-strike\">San Jose City Council Approves Agreements With Unions to Avoid Strike\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/li>\n\u003cli dir=\"ltr\">\n\u003cp dir=\"ltr\" role=\"presentation\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/henrietta-lacks-lawsuit-18290615.php\">Henrietta Lacks’ Family Sues Bay Area Company Over Use of Stolen Cells\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. And welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. Today I’ve got senior editor Alan Montecillo in the studio with me. Hey, Alan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Hi.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I also have our producer, Maria Esquinca. What’s up, Maria?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>Hello.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And here’s the deal. We’re kind of doing something a little different today. We only get three slots a week to bring you a story. And there’s so much happening in the Bay Area that we definitely cannot get into. Can you talk a little bit more about that, Maria?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>Yeah, so I think three slots sounds like a lot, but there’s a lot going on in the Bay Area, so we don’t always really get to talk about things that we’re really interested about. And so yeah, I think we are all news people and we all have other things that we want to talk about and we thought this would be like a cool idea to bring something a little bit different.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Right. So, today we’re bringing you a little peek into what we call the white board. Alan, can you explain what the white board is or was, I guess?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Well, until March of 2020, I was a literal white board, and I hold office, which included everything from our plans for the week, you know, meetings that we had to go to and stuff, but really story ideas. The white board is now a Google doc.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Thanks to the pandemic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Yeah. And so we wanted to just give listeners a peek into some of the other things that each of us individually has been following beyond the sort of three-day-a-week deep-dive kind of storytelling that folks are used to hearing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>All right. So today, me, Maria and Alan, the Bay team are going to talk about three stories that were on our radars this month. Alan, I will start with you. What story did you pick?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Well, my story is more of an update to an episode we did earlier this month, and that’s the San Jose City workers strike, or lack thereof. Actually, there was going to be a strike with about 4500 city workers beginning Tuesday the 15th. But at the last minute, the city council and the two unions representing those workers reached a tentative deal and the strike was called off.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And it was actually going to be one of the biggest strikes in the city’s history, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Yeah, By some estimates, it would have been the largest strike of that size in San Jose since the 1980s. I mean, it would have been enormous. You’re talking about workers from the airport to the zoo to the libraries, not fire and police and not garbage. But there’s no doubt this strike would have had a huge impact.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So, what happened? How did they what was the deal that they came to?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>So, there are a number of things in the tentative agreement. I mean, these negotiations are always very complex with pay and benefits. But really the sticking point has always been about wage increases. And so initially the two unions wanted pay increases over three fiscal years of 7%, 6% and 5%. And then the city’s offer was 5%, 4%, 3% over that same period. So seven, six five versus five, four, three. In a literal sense, the two sides really did meet in the middle on this because the agreement that was reached was for 6% the first fiscal year, 5% the second fiscal year, and 4% the next fiscal year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>So, back when we did our episode on this with Guy Marzorati, I remember that the mayor wasn’t exactly too enthused about potentially reaching a deal. I think his concern was reopening the budget. And I think since the deal, he kind of came out with similar sentiments. But I’m curious, where does he stand now and where does the rest of the city council stand in there as well?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I mean, I think Mayor Matt Mahan would have been happy if they did reach a deal and the deal stuck at 5% because that’s the number that he really wanted. Now, it’s important to note that the mayor is not the chief decider on this. It’s the city council. And actually that they’re the ones who empower the city manager to negotiate with the unions, I should say, voted to approve this sort of six, five, four compromise. And Mahan came out again and said he wasn’t happy with this deal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Matt Mahan: \u003c/strong>But our council did not do its job. Our leaders were elected to represent the people and the needs of the people took a backseat.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>He felt like the city couldn’t afford it. He had said in the past that if you go too high, the council would have to go back into the budget that they already approved to try and find the money to reach to go up from that 5% that they budgeted for up to 6%, and that that would mean cuts in important services. But in the end, I mean, Mahan was outvoted. You know, he is the mayor. He’s the most public face of the city. But he was only one vote on the city council. Another council member who was really pushing to bring the council back and negotiate over this was Pam Foley. She said, look, you know, this compromise was necessary to keep city services running.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Pam Foley: \u003c/strong>We really depend on public works, Department of Transportation, Parks and Rec, all of those staff to help make life easier for our residents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>So I’m kind of curious, like what happens next, Alan?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Well, actually, as we’re taping on this, the union is voting on it right now. They’re widely expected to approve the deal. I mean, workers, that guy kind of circled back with from his original reporting said that they are pleased to see this increase. Assuming the union approves it and the council will have to go back into the budget that they passed and find ways to get up to that 6% pay increase. And we’ll see if what Mayor Mahan says is true, you know, whether or not the council really will need to make cuts in other areas that will harm residents in other ways, or maybe that won’t be the case. Maybe there will be money elsewhere and areas that residents won’t notice. We’ll just have to see how it goes. I mean, you know, budget stuff is is not the most exciting thing, but in the end, it’s about providing services to residents. So we’ll see what happens.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Okay. Now it’s actually my turn. And I’ve got this really interesting story out of Fairfield of Solano County, the 707 say it backwards. Basically, what’s happening is that there is a new land owner in Solano County. Actually, they’re now the biggest land owners in the entire county, and no one knows who they are. So this is a story that was actually first reported by The Wall Street Journal, and it’s about this investment firm called Flannery Associates. And this firm purchased 50,000 acres of land in Solano County for nearly $1,000,000,000, an amount that the investment firm itself has acknowledged is actually way over market value. So they spent a lot of a lot of money on this land. And what’s interesting about this story is that it’s. Not just any land. It’s actually this sort of dry, agricultural, grazing land that now surrounds the Travis Air Force Base on three sides.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>I’m curious, like, what are people saying or talking about?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>It’s actually raising a lot of red flags, especially among lawmakers who represent this area for them, like what’s happening here and the fact that there is so much that we don’t know about who is buying this land is raising a lot of actually national security concerns because of just the significance of Travis Air Force Base. So I have this clip from John Garamendi, who is a Democrat who represents this part of Solano County, just kind of talking about how important Travis Air Force Base is.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>John Garamendi \u003c/strong>Travis Air Force Base is absolutely a critical national defense. The munitions for Ukraine. A lot of that flights out of Travis Air Force Base all the way to Poland. And it is also the gateway to the Pacific. So what’s happening here? We don’t know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Are there any theories as to who might be behind Flannery? Because that clip you played from Congressman Garamendi suggests that he – I mean, he specifically is suggesting that this is some sort of national security risk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Right. The Wall Street Journal reported that Flannery had previously told the county that the entity is basically just a bunch of American and European families looking to diversify their portfolio. And The Hill reported that the firm is registered as an agricultural company. We also know from The Wall Street Journal that Flannery is registered actually in Delaware, where I didn’t know this, but L.L.C.’s don’t have to publicly disclose the identity of their owners in Delaware. So, that sort of adds to the like difficulty around figuring out who these people actually are. But yeah, it’s just sort of a weird story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>It’s spooky.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Actually, the FBI and the Treasury Department and the Department of Defense are all now investigating Flannery and its investments. And the reason why is because there is sort of context to this story, which is that there was a previous attempt by a Chinese owned firm to buy up land in North Dakota. And this was a purchase that the Air Force base there had opposed, citing national security risk. So, there is this fear that being so close to an an Air Force base like Travis kind of sort of opened the door for spying. But KQED has reported that there is no evidence so far to suggest that Flannery has ties with China.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Do we have any idea what these folks want to do with this land?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>The most we know is that earlier this week, the mayor of Fairfield, Catherine Moy, actually posted something on Facebook about how she’s been hearing from Solano County residents about this, a supposed poll that has been sent out by Flannery to Solano County residents that kind of outlines a sort of proposal for what they want to do with the land. And it includes a plan to build tens of thousands of new homes, a large solar energy farm, orchards with over a million new trees and over 10,000 acres of new parks and open space. I mean, I think it’s still kind of unclear what exactly is going to happen with this land. But I think at the end of the day, we still have no idea who is behind Flannery.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>It’s also a little strange that the most info we know is coming from a poll that the mayor is finding out secondhand.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah, definitely. And also it’s kind of strange that this kind of came out on Facebook when there’s also like an FBI and federal investigations into this group. So, yeah, I guess it remains to be seen who exactly is behind Flannery and why are they so interested in Fairfield. So that is my story. Last but not least, Maria. What story is on your radar this month?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>So, a story that stood out to me was the story about the family of Henrietta Lacks. They’re suing a Bay Area company called Ultragenyx Pharmaceutical based in Novato.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Henrietta Lacks is a pretty, I’d say pretty famous name, but I don’t know if everyone remembers her story. So can you remind us about that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>We have to go back to 1951 Henrietta Lacks. She was a black woman at the time that had cervical cancer, and she was being treated for Johns Hopkins. And basically doctors took her cells from her womb without her consent or without her knowledge. And the reason they they did that was because at the time, they were kind of trying to see if cells could survive out of the body. They had not been able to do this with anyone. But Henrietta’s cells were different. She she’s actually described as miraculous. Some people have called her cells an immortal cell line because once they were outside of her body, they didn’t instantly die and they were actually able to reproduce every 24 to 48 hours. Her cells have contributed, I think, to all of our lives. Her cells have been used to create the polio vaccine. They helped create the COVID vaccine. They’ve helped with genetic mapping, cancer care, HIV treatment. But this all happened without her consent. It was a very clear case of medical racism. And her family has obviously very strong feelings about this. One of her granddaughters, Kimberly Lux, spoke about just her grandmother just sitting there not knowing what was going on with her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kimberley Lacks: \u003c/strong>I think about my grandmother, as I said before, laying and then hospital room and how they came in there when she had radiation going through her body in horrific pain. But all they were concerned about was taken cell tissues from her body.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So you mentioned that this actually happened to Henrietta at Johns Hopkins, but what connection does the story have to the Bay Area?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>So, the connection to the Bay Area is that the family is suing this Bay Area pharmaceutical company that does gene therapy because they argue that they’ve benefited from her cells and they – this is like a multibillion dollar company and they have been successful with a similar case. In 2021, they sued another pharmaceutical company. And this year, actually the beginning of this month, they reached a settlement with that company.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So, basically they’re suing this Bay Area company for profiting off of these cells.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>Exactly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Kimberley Lacks: \u003c/strong>Has the family or their attorney said anything about this case specifically against Ultragenyx in Novato?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>No, specifically about ultragenyx. The family attorney ben crump actually was on democracy now! And he does talk about how the lawsuit is based on this idea of genetic justice and this belief that justice should flow from like one family to the next.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Attorney for Henrietta Lacks’ Family: \u003c/strong>If you are unjustly rich from the wrong doing, then you should not be allowed to continue to benefit the pearl of the victim, which is Henrietta Lacks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>At the time they were specifically talking about this other settlement that just happened, but he did mention that they are that they plan to sue other other pharmaceutical companies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, that is it for the day’s first ever August news roundup. There’s still so much more on our whiteboard that we did not get to, but at least we got to do three more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>We be here a long time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We be here a real long time. Maria and Alan, thank you all so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Maria Esquinca: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Before we go, just a little fact check. In this episode, Alan said that the agreement between the city of San Jose and its workers would provide a 4% raise in the fiscal year beginning July 2025. It’s actually 3.5%. Unless the city has a surplus of $10 million or more. If that happens, workers will get 4%. If you’re interested in reading more about the stories that we talked about today, peep the links in our show notes. The Bay is made by senior editor Alan Montecillo, producer Maria Esquinca, and me. Shout out as well to the rest of the podcast squad here at KQED. That’s Jen Chien, the director of podcasts; Katie Sprenger, our podcast operations manager. We also get audience engagement support from César Saldaña. And Holly Kernan is our chief content officer. We’re a production of member-supported, people-powered KQED in San Francisco. Thanks for listening. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hollywood is no stranger to changes brought on by technology. But KQED’s Rachael Myrow says that for writers and actors currently on strike, this moment is existential — thanks in no small part to Silicon Valley.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many KQED staffers are also members of SAG-AFTRA, but journalists have a different contract from Hollywood actors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC9846389333\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you r ooted. Writers in Hollywood have been on strike since May, demanding better wages and working conditions. And last month, thousands of actors joined them. This standoff between the Writers Guild of America, the Screen Actors Guild and the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers is likely to drag on for a while. And behind these calls for improved working conditions is an entire business model changed in large part by none other than Silicon Valley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>The entire business model has been changed by streaming digital air. This is a moment of history. That is a moment of truth. If we don’t stand tall right now, we are all going to be in trouble.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Hollywood is no stranger to big changes brought on by technology. But for writers and actors on strike right now, this moment is existential. Today, how Silicon Valley changed Hollywood and why this strike has everything to do with big tech.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, my first question, Rachel, I understand you actually come from a Hollywood family. So am I in the presence of Hollywood royalty right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>I wouldn’t call it royalty, but I come from a long line of composers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Rachael Myrow is senior editor of KQED’s Silicon Valley Desk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>MUSIC: \u003c/strong>[“You Make Me Feel So Young” by Frank Sinatra]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>Both my father and grandfather worked in Hollywood. My grandfather worked for 20th Century Fox in the studio system during the 1940s and fifties. He’s probably best known today for two songs. “You Make Me Feel So Young” and “Autumn Nocturne.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>MUSIC: \u003c/strong>[continues]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>You know, you make me feel so young was was part of a sort of a boiler plate musical of the kind that Hollywood used to churn out back then and would probably have been buried in that movie, except for the fact that a number of years later, Frank Sinatra decided to do a cover. Oh, my gosh. I don’t know. That’s that sounds like royalty to me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>MUSIC: \u003c/strong>[continues]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:: \u003c/strong>Well, I guess what did you come to learn about how Hollywood works from like this point of view or this perspective?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>There’s always been this war dance, if you will, between labor and the production companies. New technologies always been new technologies, disrupting things. And there’s always been this sort of gap between the experimental phase of a new technology being rolled out and that moment when the unions catch on and demand a piece of the action for their members in the next contract talks. So whether you’re talking about the shift to television or videotape rentals, remember those or foreign residuals? You know, there’s a little lag and then the unions catch up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>You know, we’re talking about the strike. All these actors, producers, writers demanding higher wages and better protections. But what is that? What does any of that have to do with big tech and Silicon Valley?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>This wouldn’t be the first time Big Tech has essentially gone up against Big Labor in California, Right? These are very well-established unions. The Writers Guild of America, SAG-AFTRA. The gig economy has disrupted all sorts of labor markets. Right. And in really stark terms, because the shift to part time work with minimal employer provided benefits has taken money out of the pockets of rank and file workers and shifted it to the pockets of executives and investors. And again, in Hollywood, you know, the executives have always looked out for themselves, for sure. But what’s happening now is that these companies don’t mind sharing the wealth with the top 1%, the superstars, the the showrunners. But everybody else appears to be treated as expendable in much the same way that you see very carefully delineated stratification of the labor market in Silicon Valley. So, you know, Hollywood was already gig ified by the time Silicon Valley arrived. But Silicon Valley has perfected the business model in a very kind of dark and foreboding way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And that is in big part because of the fact that streaming has really sort of changed the game. Right. You talk about the role of streaming in all this and Netflix sort of changing the landscape for many of these these folks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>Netflix introduced the concept of streaming. Netflix has also changed the name of the game in terms of transparency or lack thereof. You know, it was always hard to know exactly what was happening under the hood, financially speaking, with a show that you’re involved in producing. But Netflix tells you nothing. Even if you were the one making this the show and people who have been very successful on these programs report that they’re not making the kind of money you would think you would make if you were involved with a hit. My God, I’m going to be so rich.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>News Anchor \u003c/strong>That was Kimiko Glenn, who played Brooks Soso on Netflix’s Orange is the New Black. She earned just $27 on that residual check. You saw it there. Her frustration being echoed by many of her costars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>Which makes you ask the question, who knows how much Orange is the New Black is actually making, and who stands in for the actors inside Netflix arguing for them to get a fair amount of money?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>News Anchor \u003c/strong>Leah DeLaria telling The New Yorker, I got $20. I would love to know how much money did Ted Sarandos make last year? Well, here’s the answer. Sarandos, who’s the CEO of Netflix. According to the company’s financial statements last year, he received $20 million in base salary, more than $50 million, if you include the stock and the options…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Protesters \u003c/strong>[chanting]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>The people I talked to on the picket lines outside of Netflix headquarters in Los Gatos. These people, Ericka, they can connect the dots. They watched what happened to gig workers in other industries. They saw what happened to musicians. My grandfather made a comfortable living on contract with 20th Century Fox, now owned by Disney. My father, on the other hand, died young, in large part from the stress of the ups and downs of working as an independent, a creative gig worker before we knew what that meant. But then you get to someone like Rajiv Shah, right? He’s from Los Gatos. He’s a member of SAG-AFTRA, the Screen Actors Guild slash American Federation of Television and Radio Artists for more than 20 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rajiv Shah: \u003c/strong>This is full time for me. So, I mean, I do a lot of work in L.A. and here I’m also a writer, so I do a lot of work with that. And we actually have a production company that does a lot of work for, you know, small businesses and things like that. So it’s all creative. You know, what I’ve been doing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>And like many creatives, he’s a hyphenate. He’s working a diversified portfolio of gigs. And I think I mentioned he’s from Los Gatos, right? He gets the tech has eaten Hollywood.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rajiv Shah: \u003c/strong>But I think what everybody understands is this is setting a precedent for what’s going to come in the future because, you know, tech is only going to grow. You know, streaming is only going to grow. So all we’re asking is that we grow with it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>You know, But this is Labor’s moment, right? Maybe the last opportunity it has to fight for a share of the pie that allows people like Shah to survive economically.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean, Rachael, big tech has also been notoriously anti-union, right? I mean, just sort of thinking about how Uber and Lyft, for example, have been some of the biggest champions of gig work as opposed to full time work with benefits. How does that play into this? Like has. Have you seen this sort of anti-union, I guess, energy trickling down into Hollywood?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>The companies coming from tech. They don’t have this history of hashing things out every few years with the writers, the directors and the actors. Many of them are not union in the slightest, not even a portion of their employee base. It’s a different ballgame. We’ve seen Hollywood executives say some pretty dark things about willing to watch the writers and the actors bleed. You lose their homes. And, you know, it’s not that the companies aren’t at risk of losing a lot of money, but a lot of their entertainment services are are kind of loss leaders, to borrow a phrase from retail. If you’re Amazon, it doesn’t matter if prime, you know, at least the entertainment part of prime makes money. The whole point is to give people a reason to sign up for prime. Right. To to have the diapers delivered to your doorstep and to keep you engaged with Prime to continue re-upping every year. So that’s what Prime video is there for if you’re Apple. You don’t need to make money from Apple TV, right? This it’s just one unit. And in truth, you could say, well, yeah, those other media behemoths, they’re also made up of multiple units, many of which they talk about selling to each other. So so there’s some of that. But the big media companies, they have to succeed in entertainment versus for tech companies. I don’t think they have to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>There’s so much talk now about A.I. in big tech. How do you think that might further reshape the landscape of Hollywood?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>This is the question on everybody’s lips, and there’s a lot that really nobody really knows yet. You’ve probably noticed the companies are busy hiring specialists just to figure out what’s possible. Right. And what kind of intellectual property rights are protectable because nobody owns as much creative content as these companies. Right. But already it doesn’t take a software engineer to see that visual special effects people are in big trouble and actors are in big trouble. I don’t know if you saw the latest Indiana Jones movie. There’s a big chunk at the beginning, which is starring a fairly believable younger version of Harrison Ford, but that’s Harrison Ford. So he gets to make bank off that project, right? $25 million. Now, imagine that you’re an extra or the kind of actor who makes a little money here and there for big roles. People might recognize your face or the kind of character you usually play. There are legions of people like this in Hollywood and really all over the world, because there are all sorts of film sets all over the world. Right, including the Bay Area today. Nothing protects these actors from having their likeness recorded on the one or two days. They’re brought on to a set and then used for perpetuity. They’re never going to get called back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Harley Ford: \u003c/strong>There’s places for A.I., but let us do the work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>So actors like. One woman I met outside of Netflix in Los Gatos, Harley Ford, she can see the writing on the wall. She knows where this is going.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Harley Ford: \u003c/strong>We’re the ones that, you know, have felt those emotions. And how can a robot put a tear behind something that doesn’t know what a real feeling is? It doesn’t know love. It doesn’t know respect or kindness. It doesn’t know fear.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>Harley understands something that I think if you can appreciate that spark of creativity, the way that that only a human can speak to the emotions within us, like some some computer driven retread just can’t. Get to that. Looking ahead here, where does the, I guess, strike stand now? Are the actors and writers any closer to reaching a deal? At this moment, it’s just the writers back at the bargaining table. But I. I can’t read the tea leaves on this one because for one thing, we’re not getting a lot of public information about what they’re talking about. But also, I think that all three core issues for the writers especially are existential, right? Who gets paid and how? Who works and how much and who gets a say in how generative AI is used. And I should say it’s existential for the actors, too. I just think this is this is a moment, perhaps the last moment when when these two unions have the strategic capacity to drive the conversation. I go back to the idea, Erica, that Silicon Valley has eaten Hollywood, eaten the production model, eaten the economic model, and, you know, seems to be well on its way to eating the creative model. We might not see so many picket lines up here in the San Francisco Bay Area. But I’ll tell you, when you see those actors and writers yelling into the cameras on social media, they are yelling at us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Rachel, thank you so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Rachael Myrow, senior editor of the Silicon Valley desk for KQED. Many KQED staffers are members of SAG-AFTRA. But broadcast journalists have a different contract than the Hollywood actors. This 40-minute conversation with Rachel was cut down and edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. Producer Maria Esquinca scored this episode and added all the tape. If you liked this episode or learn something, tell someone about it. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, thanks for listening to The Bay. Talk to you next time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\n",
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"title": "How Silicon Valley Ate Hollywood | KQED",
"description": "View the full episode transcript. Hollywood is no stranger to changes brought on by technology. But KQED’s Rachael Myrow says that for writers and actors currently on strike, this moment is existential — thanks in no small part to Silicon Valley. Many KQED staffers are also members of SAG-AFTRA, but journalists have a different contract from Hollywood actors. Episode Transcript This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors. Ericka Cruz Guevarra: I'm Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you r ooted. Writers in Hollywood have been on",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hollywood is no stranger to changes brought on by technology. But KQED’s Rachael Myrow says that for writers and actors currently on strike, this moment is existential — thanks in no small part to Silicon Valley.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Many KQED staffers are also members of SAG-AFTRA, but journalists have a different contract from Hollywood actors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC9846389333\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you r ooted. Writers in Hollywood have been on strike since May, demanding better wages and working conditions. And last month, thousands of actors joined them. This standoff between the Writers Guild of America, the Screen Actors Guild and the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers is likely to drag on for a while. And behind these calls for improved working conditions is an entire business model changed in large part by none other than Silicon Valley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>The entire business model has been changed by streaming digital air. This is a moment of history. That is a moment of truth. If we don’t stand tall right now, we are all going to be in trouble.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Hollywood is no stranger to big changes brought on by technology. But for writers and actors on strike right now, this moment is existential. Today, how Silicon Valley changed Hollywood and why this strike has everything to do with big tech.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, my first question, Rachel, I understand you actually come from a Hollywood family. So am I in the presence of Hollywood royalty right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>I wouldn’t call it royalty, but I come from a long line of composers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Rachael Myrow is senior editor of KQED’s Silicon Valley Desk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>MUSIC: \u003c/strong>[“You Make Me Feel So Young” by Frank Sinatra]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>Both my father and grandfather worked in Hollywood. My grandfather worked for 20th Century Fox in the studio system during the 1940s and fifties. He’s probably best known today for two songs. “You Make Me Feel So Young” and “Autumn Nocturne.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>MUSIC: \u003c/strong>[continues]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>You know, you make me feel so young was was part of a sort of a boiler plate musical of the kind that Hollywood used to churn out back then and would probably have been buried in that movie, except for the fact that a number of years later, Frank Sinatra decided to do a cover. Oh, my gosh. I don’t know. That’s that sounds like royalty to me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>MUSIC: \u003c/strong>[continues]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:: \u003c/strong>Well, I guess what did you come to learn about how Hollywood works from like this point of view or this perspective?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>There’s always been this war dance, if you will, between labor and the production companies. New technologies always been new technologies, disrupting things. And there’s always been this sort of gap between the experimental phase of a new technology being rolled out and that moment when the unions catch on and demand a piece of the action for their members in the next contract talks. So whether you’re talking about the shift to television or videotape rentals, remember those or foreign residuals? You know, there’s a little lag and then the unions catch up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>You know, we’re talking about the strike. All these actors, producers, writers demanding higher wages and better protections. But what is that? What does any of that have to do with big tech and Silicon Valley?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>This wouldn’t be the first time Big Tech has essentially gone up against Big Labor in California, Right? These are very well-established unions. The Writers Guild of America, SAG-AFTRA. The gig economy has disrupted all sorts of labor markets. Right. And in really stark terms, because the shift to part time work with minimal employer provided benefits has taken money out of the pockets of rank and file workers and shifted it to the pockets of executives and investors. And again, in Hollywood, you know, the executives have always looked out for themselves, for sure. But what’s happening now is that these companies don’t mind sharing the wealth with the top 1%, the superstars, the the showrunners. But everybody else appears to be treated as expendable in much the same way that you see very carefully delineated stratification of the labor market in Silicon Valley. So, you know, Hollywood was already gig ified by the time Silicon Valley arrived. But Silicon Valley has perfected the business model in a very kind of dark and foreboding way.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And that is in big part because of the fact that streaming has really sort of changed the game. Right. You talk about the role of streaming in all this and Netflix sort of changing the landscape for many of these these folks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>Netflix introduced the concept of streaming. Netflix has also changed the name of the game in terms of transparency or lack thereof. You know, it was always hard to know exactly what was happening under the hood, financially speaking, with a show that you’re involved in producing. But Netflix tells you nothing. Even if you were the one making this the show and people who have been very successful on these programs report that they’re not making the kind of money you would think you would make if you were involved with a hit. My God, I’m going to be so rich.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>News Anchor \u003c/strong>That was Kimiko Glenn, who played Brooks Soso on Netflix’s Orange is the New Black. She earned just $27 on that residual check. You saw it there. Her frustration being echoed by many of her costars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>Which makes you ask the question, who knows how much Orange is the New Black is actually making, and who stands in for the actors inside Netflix arguing for them to get a fair amount of money?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>News Anchor \u003c/strong>Leah DeLaria telling The New Yorker, I got $20. I would love to know how much money did Ted Sarandos make last year? Well, here’s the answer. Sarandos, who’s the CEO of Netflix. According to the company’s financial statements last year, he received $20 million in base salary, more than $50 million, if you include the stock and the options…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Protesters \u003c/strong>[chanting]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>The people I talked to on the picket lines outside of Netflix headquarters in Los Gatos. These people, Ericka, they can connect the dots. They watched what happened to gig workers in other industries. They saw what happened to musicians. My grandfather made a comfortable living on contract with 20th Century Fox, now owned by Disney. My father, on the other hand, died young, in large part from the stress of the ups and downs of working as an independent, a creative gig worker before we knew what that meant. But then you get to someone like Rajiv Shah, right? He’s from Los Gatos. He’s a member of SAG-AFTRA, the Screen Actors Guild slash American Federation of Television and Radio Artists for more than 20 years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rajiv Shah: \u003c/strong>This is full time for me. So, I mean, I do a lot of work in L.A. and here I’m also a writer, so I do a lot of work with that. And we actually have a production company that does a lot of work for, you know, small businesses and things like that. So it’s all creative. You know, what I’ve been doing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>And like many creatives, he’s a hyphenate. He’s working a diversified portfolio of gigs. And I think I mentioned he’s from Los Gatos, right? He gets the tech has eaten Hollywood.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rajiv Shah: \u003c/strong>But I think what everybody understands is this is setting a precedent for what’s going to come in the future because, you know, tech is only going to grow. You know, streaming is only going to grow. So all we’re asking is that we grow with it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>You know, But this is Labor’s moment, right? Maybe the last opportunity it has to fight for a share of the pie that allows people like Shah to survive economically.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean, Rachael, big tech has also been notoriously anti-union, right? I mean, just sort of thinking about how Uber and Lyft, for example, have been some of the biggest champions of gig work as opposed to full time work with benefits. How does that play into this? Like has. Have you seen this sort of anti-union, I guess, energy trickling down into Hollywood?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>The companies coming from tech. They don’t have this history of hashing things out every few years with the writers, the directors and the actors. Many of them are not union in the slightest, not even a portion of their employee base. It’s a different ballgame. We’ve seen Hollywood executives say some pretty dark things about willing to watch the writers and the actors bleed. You lose their homes. And, you know, it’s not that the companies aren’t at risk of losing a lot of money, but a lot of their entertainment services are are kind of loss leaders, to borrow a phrase from retail. If you’re Amazon, it doesn’t matter if prime, you know, at least the entertainment part of prime makes money. The whole point is to give people a reason to sign up for prime. Right. To to have the diapers delivered to your doorstep and to keep you engaged with Prime to continue re-upping every year. So that’s what Prime video is there for if you’re Apple. You don’t need to make money from Apple TV, right? This it’s just one unit. And in truth, you could say, well, yeah, those other media behemoths, they’re also made up of multiple units, many of which they talk about selling to each other. So so there’s some of that. But the big media companies, they have to succeed in entertainment versus for tech companies. I don’t think they have to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>There’s so much talk now about A.I. in big tech. How do you think that might further reshape the landscape of Hollywood?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>This is the question on everybody’s lips, and there’s a lot that really nobody really knows yet. You’ve probably noticed the companies are busy hiring specialists just to figure out what’s possible. Right. And what kind of intellectual property rights are protectable because nobody owns as much creative content as these companies. Right. But already it doesn’t take a software engineer to see that visual special effects people are in big trouble and actors are in big trouble. I don’t know if you saw the latest Indiana Jones movie. There’s a big chunk at the beginning, which is starring a fairly believable younger version of Harrison Ford, but that’s Harrison Ford. So he gets to make bank off that project, right? $25 million. Now, imagine that you’re an extra or the kind of actor who makes a little money here and there for big roles. People might recognize your face or the kind of character you usually play. There are legions of people like this in Hollywood and really all over the world, because there are all sorts of film sets all over the world. Right, including the Bay Area today. Nothing protects these actors from having their likeness recorded on the one or two days. They’re brought on to a set and then used for perpetuity. They’re never going to get called back.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Harley Ford: \u003c/strong>There’s places for A.I., but let us do the work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>So actors like. One woman I met outside of Netflix in Los Gatos, Harley Ford, she can see the writing on the wall. She knows where this is going.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Harley Ford: \u003c/strong>We’re the ones that, you know, have felt those emotions. And how can a robot put a tear behind something that doesn’t know what a real feeling is? It doesn’t know love. It doesn’t know respect or kindness. It doesn’t know fear.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>Harley understands something that I think if you can appreciate that spark of creativity, the way that that only a human can speak to the emotions within us, like some some computer driven retread just can’t. Get to that. Looking ahead here, where does the, I guess, strike stand now? Are the actors and writers any closer to reaching a deal? At this moment, it’s just the writers back at the bargaining table. But I. I can’t read the tea leaves on this one because for one thing, we’re not getting a lot of public information about what they’re talking about. But also, I think that all three core issues for the writers especially are existential, right? Who gets paid and how? Who works and how much and who gets a say in how generative AI is used. And I should say it’s existential for the actors, too. I just think this is this is a moment, perhaps the last moment when when these two unions have the strategic capacity to drive the conversation. I go back to the idea, Erica, that Silicon Valley has eaten Hollywood, eaten the production model, eaten the economic model, and, you know, seems to be well on its way to eating the creative model. We might not see so many picket lines up here in the San Francisco Bay Area. But I’ll tell you, when you see those actors and writers yelling into the cameras on social media, they are yelling at us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Rachel, thank you so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Rachael Myrow, senior editor of the Silicon Valley desk for KQED. Many KQED staffers are members of SAG-AFTRA. But broadcast journalists have a different contract than the Hollywood actors. This 40-minute conversation with Rachel was cut down and edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. Producer Maria Esquinca scored this episode and added all the tape. If you liked this episode or learn something, tell someone about it. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, thanks for listening to The Bay. Talk to you next time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"title": "‘All That’s Old is New Again’: OPD’s Long Road to Reform",
"headTitle": "‘All That’s Old is New Again’: OPD’s Long Road to Reform | KQED",
"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oakland is looking for a new police chief after Mayor Sheng Thao fired LeRonne Armstrong back in mid-February. Whoever takes the job next will inherit a department that has been under federal oversight for 20 years. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Today, we revisit a conversation with Ali Winston about the events that led to Armstrong’s downfall, and why OPD’s challenges run far deeper than who the chief is.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode originally published on Feb. 8, 2023.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7285576043&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. No other law enforcement agency has been undergoing the process of police reform longer than the Oakland Police Department. For the last two decades, OPD has been trying to get in line with a consent decree, a binding set of reforms laid out by the federal government. But officials say a new scandal that’s led its police chief, LeRonne Armstrong, to be put on administrative leave is a sign that OPD still has a long way to go.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>In the city’s desire to kind of clear the decks and get out from under the court oversight, they treat it as a box to be checked rather than lasting reforms that are meant to reshape the way that policing is done in Oakland.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Whether or not Chief Armstrong will keep his job is still up in the air after investigators say he failed to hold officers accountable for misconduct. Today: what this latest scandal reveals about what’s changed, what remains the same at the Oakland Police Department.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What was your initial reaction when you heard the news that Chief LeRonne Armstrong has been placed on administrative leave?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>All that’s old is new again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Ali Winston is an independent journalist and coauthor of The Riders Come Out at Night, a book about corruption and brutality within the Oakland Police Department and its two-decades-long attempt at police reform.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>This is not a new situation, and sadly, it’s the kind of feature of the Oakland Police Department’s 20-year saga to come into compliance with modern practices of policing. They’ve been under a consent decree, a binding reform program, since the year 2003 as a result of an egregious civil rights scandal and abuses by a group of officers known as the “Riders.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What prompted Chief LeRonne Armstrong to be put on leave last month?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>Exactly two years ago, roughly a sergeant named Michael Chung was driving in an OPD takeover vehicle, a police issued car in the parking garage of his luxury high-rise apartment building in downtown Oakland. His passenger was a another Oakland cop, I believe, his partner or girlfriend at the time. Sergeant Chung clipped another car while in the parking garage. We don’t know why he did not report this accident. And the Oakland Police Department learned about it only when the department received an insurance claim from the driver of the damaged vehicle. So, the Internal Affairs Division opened up a case to look into the accident and the lack of reporting, which is a matter that could rise to the level of discipline. And during the course of this investigation, the officer assigned to the case found that Sergeant Chung had left the scene of a crime, had not reported the accident, and had engaged in a relationship with a subordinate officer and had not reported it. Sergeant Chung was found to have committed these incidents of misconduct by the investigator who then presented his findings to the Captain of Internal Affairs. Wilson Lau. And Captain Lau overruled the investigator’s findings and reduced discipline down from potential termination to instructions which are basically a talking to by a superior officer. And he removed the partner, the female officer, from being a subject of the investigation, who also didn’t report the crime, to being a witness. Sergeant Chung is a very popular individual in the police department. He’s the current head of the Oakland Asian Police Officers Association. And the captain in this incident Wilson Lau was his immediate, past predecessor as president of the Asian POA.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So, there’s this hit and run that Sergeant Chung does not report – what happened after that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>This case made its way up to Chief Armstrong’s desk, and he signed off on the final discipline, the verbal instructions in the file. There was the discrepancy between the initial recommendation and Captain Lau’s justification of the downgrade of discipline. This went unnoticed for about a year – until Sergeant Chung is riding in a freight elevator in OPD, I want to say in early 2022. He’s in headquarters and for whatever reason, fires a round from a service-issue pistol which creates a strike mark in the elevator. He doesn’t report this. He picks up his casing – the brass casing that ejects from the pistol – takes it with him, and on his way back from San Francisco while he’s driving, he rolls down his window and tosses it off the Bay Bridge. Another cop notices the strike mark in the elevator, reports it, and there’s a very serious investigation to find out what exactly happened in this elevator. Somebody fired a round in police headquarters and didn’t report it. Couple weeks go by and Sergeant Chung eventually comes forward and says, Hey, it was me. I did this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>After Michael Chung came forward, he was placed on administrative leave. But word about these incidents got back to the Federal Monitor, Robert Warshaw. He’s the court-appointed official who oversees Oakland’s police reforms. And Warshaw decided that OPD wasn’t capable of handling this investigation into Michael Chung. So, the city hired an outside law firm to do its own report, and on January 18, Judge William Orrick ordered that report to be made public. This is the moment when Oakland’s new mayor, Sheng Thao and the city administrator decided to place Chief LeRonne Armstrong on administrative leave. Where does the chief sort of fit into this? What exactly is he accused of?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>Chief Armstrong is on leave because he signed off on Mike Chung’s reduction of discipline in the vehicular accident without properly reviewing the report and noticing the disparity in discipline. So, as the chief of the Oakland Police Department, one of his main responsibilities is ensuring that the Oakland Police Department is in compliance with the reforms of the consent decree. And by failing to review and discern the issue in that case, the offense is on its own, not reporting the accident. The fact that he did not notice that disposition and that he signed off on Captain Wilson Lau’s decision to reduce that – that was, in a way, a dereliction of duty. The second incident, the discharging a firearm in police headquarters: that posed an immediate threat to someone’s life, and unfortunately, you know, the current back-and-forth over the police chief should be reinstated [or] he shouldn’t be reinstated. Well, the bottom line is that the failing happened at a level kind of below him. He failed to do his job and make certain that that failure didn’t happen. And the real issue here is that the same problems – the same type of problem keeps repeating itself in OPD every two, three, five years. Failing to ensure the integrity of the internal affairs process in the Oakland Police Department is the reason for the departure of LeRonne Armstrong’s immediate predecessors, Anne Kirkpatrick and Sean Whent. If we go back, it’s also the grounds for the dismissal of Howard Jordan, who is the last police chief with a significant term before Whent in, I believe, 2013. There are even some periods where there have been two or three police chiefs in a week just because of the sheer amount of tumult in the Oakland Police Department as a result of several past scandals. You know, history will come back to bite you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I feel like Chief Armstrong has sort of become the principle person, as you’ve just been talking about, who’s really taken center stage in this scandal. But it seems like the problem is, in fact, deeper than him. So, what are the issues within OPD that this latest scandal has revealed?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>There are many issues that come up here. Consistency of discipline and the integrity of the internal affairs investigation is critical and at the center of all this. But there are bigger issues with the quality of people who OPD have brought in, their screening process for recruits, how they determine who should be promoted to a supervisory position or not, and then potentially whether or not there is outside influence in terms of Sergeant Chung being in his position. And if there was interference with – like, hey, look, this guy is…he’s our boy, don’t mess with him. Give him a slap on the wrist. Sergeant Chung made Sergeant within six years of joining the police department. He joined in 2013. There’s questions as to how someone rose that fast, but there are many, many issues here that deal with broader, not just cultural problems, in the department, but what the federal judge overseeing OPD’s consent decree called “rot” in his remarks a couple of weeks ago.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Do you think that there’s just too much attention being given to just Chief Armstrong as sort of the main character in this new story about OPD?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>Yes, I do. It’s unfortunate. It’s quite typical because the shiny dime kind of leads the news. What actually happened, the true incident at question here and the real problems are at a level below the chief. And in some ways, police chiefs are actually – this is going to sound funny, but they’re not really that important in some respects because they come and go within five years at the longest. And a lot of them kind of are keepers of the flame. They don’t really change much around their subject to political shifts as well. Mayors like to bring in their own chiefs, their own people. But what really happens, kind of [at] the captain- and deputy chief- and lieutenant-level is really more important for the day-to-day functions of the department. So, I do think that as time goes on and more information comes out about the incidents at the heart of this, the narrative will start to shift. But right now, there is way too much attention being focused on kind of the top-line issue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>One thing you’re also sort of alluding to is the idea that some of these problems are problems that should have ideally been fixed as a result of federal oversight, right, which has been going on for decades? And that is supposed to lead to reform and changes within the police department. So, has anything actually improved within the department?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>Yes, the Oakland Police Department is not the same police department it was in the 2000s. The police department no longer shoots 12 to 14 people a year. That was the case when I first started covering Oakland in 2008. Now, because of a huge modification in the chase policy, as a result, now we’re down to maybe one to four, which is still too many. But that in and of itself is a massive change. The department also engaged and overhauled its policy of strip-searching people in public. At one point that was very common. They’d engage in cavity searches in public streets of people for narcotics. The department also engaged in a massive study of racial profiling efforts. They studied the traffic stops and the walking stops that the Oakland Police Department engaged in. And in conjunction with Jennifer Eberhardt, a professor at Stanford, [they] were able to discern a pattern of vastly overpolicing African-Americans. And they’ve tried to readjust, readdress that racial balance. So, there have been big changes in the Oakland Police Department’s policies in their composition. The problem with the internal affairs process is that in the city’s eagerness to get out from under the consent decree, in the city’s desire to kind of clear the decks, they treat it as a box to be checked and something to be dealt with and filed away rather than lasting reforms that are meant to reshape the institution and reshape the way that policing is done in Oakland. I think that LeRonne Armstrong may have fallen into the same trap. I know that when he assumes his role as the head of the police department, he basically said, we’re going to get this consent decree done and we’re going to do away with it, and we need to make certain that nothing goes wrong. But again, we have to wait for the full shape of the alleged incident and the way in which it was disposed of to come to light.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Where do things stand right now for the police chief, and how has he responded to being put on leave?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>Well, LeRonne Armstrong hired a high profile PR consultant named Sam Singer, who’s worked for some of the more colorful characters in the Bay Area when they come under fire, including Chevron. And they’ve gone on the offensive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Cable news anchor: \u003c/strong>Now at eight, embattled Oakland Police Chief LeRonne Armstrong continues to push for his reinstatement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>And mounted a number of press conferences.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Unknown: \u003c/strong>LeRonne is a man of integrity. He is a man of honesty, of commitment, and most of all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>To put pressure on Mayor Sheng Thao to reinstate LeRonne Armstrong as police chief and blames Robert Warshaw, the current federal monitor of OPD.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Unknown: \u003c/strong>I’m from West Oakland. I won’t pick a fight, but I ain’t running from none. I’m not running from none.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>There have also been a number of really nasty racial tensions that have evolved from this, especially if you look at some of the message boards and the comments that have been made on social media about his suspension. There are tensions growing now between some elements of the African-American and the Asian community in Oakland. So, that’s where we stand. Right now, he’s still on administrative leave. Darren Allison, the assistant police chief, is now in temporary charge of the police department. And it remains to be seen what the federal court will do with regard to LeRonne Armstrong’s position, because in the end, they have the ability to determine whether or not he should or should not be in charge of the Oakland Police Department.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So, if you could shake someone’s shoulders and tell them what this story is really about, what would you say?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>It’s about police culture and the kind of reactionary nature of it. You know, the inability of that culture to change itself from the inside. And frankly, one thing that my colleague and I, in our book, really – one of our bigger conclusions is that change and reform for police departments only comes with relentless outside pressure. Be that through protest movements, court monitors, independent oversight bodies, politicians who actually pay attention to what’s happening in the city rather than going along with what a lobbying group wants or what a particular institution wants. That’s really where change comes from. This is a problem generations of Oaklanders have been dealing with for a long time. It’s grave, and I want to reemphasize that these seemingly episodic problems, they have a much longer tale and they echo out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Oakland city officials say there are still more details of the investigation that have not been made public, including confidential interviews with OPD officers. Meanwhile, yesterday, Armstrong and his supporters held another public event, this time outside OPD headquarters to demand that he get his job back. That was Ali Winston, an independent journalist and coauthor of “The Riders Come Out at Night,” which was co-written by him and Darwin BondGraham of the Oaklandside. This 45-minute conversation with Ali was cut down and edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. Producer Maria Esquinca scored this one and added all the tape. And our intern is Jehlen Herdman. And that’s it for The Bay. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Thank you so much for listening. Talk to you next time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oakland is looking for a new police chief after Mayor Sheng Thao fired LeRonne Armstrong back in mid-February. Whoever takes the job next will inherit a department that has been under federal oversight for 20 years. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Today, we revisit a conversation with Ali Winston about the events that led to Armstrong’s downfall, and why OPD’s challenges run far deeper than who the chief is.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode originally published on Feb. 8, 2023.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7285576043&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. No other law enforcement agency has been undergoing the process of police reform longer than the Oakland Police Department. For the last two decades, OPD has been trying to get in line with a consent decree, a binding set of reforms laid out by the federal government. But officials say a new scandal that’s led its police chief, LeRonne Armstrong, to be put on administrative leave is a sign that OPD still has a long way to go.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>In the city’s desire to kind of clear the decks and get out from under the court oversight, they treat it as a box to be checked rather than lasting reforms that are meant to reshape the way that policing is done in Oakland.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Whether or not Chief Armstrong will keep his job is still up in the air after investigators say he failed to hold officers accountable for misconduct. Today: what this latest scandal reveals about what’s changed, what remains the same at the Oakland Police Department.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What was your initial reaction when you heard the news that Chief LeRonne Armstrong has been placed on administrative leave?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>All that’s old is new again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Ali Winston is an independent journalist and coauthor of The Riders Come Out at Night, a book about corruption and brutality within the Oakland Police Department and its two-decades-long attempt at police reform.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>This is not a new situation, and sadly, it’s the kind of feature of the Oakland Police Department’s 20-year saga to come into compliance with modern practices of policing. They’ve been under a consent decree, a binding reform program, since the year 2003 as a result of an egregious civil rights scandal and abuses by a group of officers known as the “Riders.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What prompted Chief LeRonne Armstrong to be put on leave last month?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>Exactly two years ago, roughly a sergeant named Michael Chung was driving in an OPD takeover vehicle, a police issued car in the parking garage of his luxury high-rise apartment building in downtown Oakland. His passenger was a another Oakland cop, I believe, his partner or girlfriend at the time. Sergeant Chung clipped another car while in the parking garage. We don’t know why he did not report this accident. And the Oakland Police Department learned about it only when the department received an insurance claim from the driver of the damaged vehicle. So, the Internal Affairs Division opened up a case to look into the accident and the lack of reporting, which is a matter that could rise to the level of discipline. And during the course of this investigation, the officer assigned to the case found that Sergeant Chung had left the scene of a crime, had not reported the accident, and had engaged in a relationship with a subordinate officer and had not reported it. Sergeant Chung was found to have committed these incidents of misconduct by the investigator who then presented his findings to the Captain of Internal Affairs. Wilson Lau. And Captain Lau overruled the investigator’s findings and reduced discipline down from potential termination to instructions which are basically a talking to by a superior officer. And he removed the partner, the female officer, from being a subject of the investigation, who also didn’t report the crime, to being a witness. Sergeant Chung is a very popular individual in the police department. He’s the current head of the Oakland Asian Police Officers Association. And the captain in this incident Wilson Lau was his immediate, past predecessor as president of the Asian POA.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So, there’s this hit and run that Sergeant Chung does not report – what happened after that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>This case made its way up to Chief Armstrong’s desk, and he signed off on the final discipline, the verbal instructions in the file. There was the discrepancy between the initial recommendation and Captain Lau’s justification of the downgrade of discipline. This went unnoticed for about a year – until Sergeant Chung is riding in a freight elevator in OPD, I want to say in early 2022. He’s in headquarters and for whatever reason, fires a round from a service-issue pistol which creates a strike mark in the elevator. He doesn’t report this. He picks up his casing – the brass casing that ejects from the pistol – takes it with him, and on his way back from San Francisco while he’s driving, he rolls down his window and tosses it off the Bay Bridge. Another cop notices the strike mark in the elevator, reports it, and there’s a very serious investigation to find out what exactly happened in this elevator. Somebody fired a round in police headquarters and didn’t report it. Couple weeks go by and Sergeant Chung eventually comes forward and says, Hey, it was me. I did this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>After Michael Chung came forward, he was placed on administrative leave. But word about these incidents got back to the Federal Monitor, Robert Warshaw. He’s the court-appointed official who oversees Oakland’s police reforms. And Warshaw decided that OPD wasn’t capable of handling this investigation into Michael Chung. So, the city hired an outside law firm to do its own report, and on January 18, Judge William Orrick ordered that report to be made public. This is the moment when Oakland’s new mayor, Sheng Thao and the city administrator decided to place Chief LeRonne Armstrong on administrative leave. Where does the chief sort of fit into this? What exactly is he accused of?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>Chief Armstrong is on leave because he signed off on Mike Chung’s reduction of discipline in the vehicular accident without properly reviewing the report and noticing the disparity in discipline. So, as the chief of the Oakland Police Department, one of his main responsibilities is ensuring that the Oakland Police Department is in compliance with the reforms of the consent decree. And by failing to review and discern the issue in that case, the offense is on its own, not reporting the accident. The fact that he did not notice that disposition and that he signed off on Captain Wilson Lau’s decision to reduce that – that was, in a way, a dereliction of duty. The second incident, the discharging a firearm in police headquarters: that posed an immediate threat to someone’s life, and unfortunately, you know, the current back-and-forth over the police chief should be reinstated [or] he shouldn’t be reinstated. Well, the bottom line is that the failing happened at a level kind of below him. He failed to do his job and make certain that that failure didn’t happen. And the real issue here is that the same problems – the same type of problem keeps repeating itself in OPD every two, three, five years. Failing to ensure the integrity of the internal affairs process in the Oakland Police Department is the reason for the departure of LeRonne Armstrong’s immediate predecessors, Anne Kirkpatrick and Sean Whent. If we go back, it’s also the grounds for the dismissal of Howard Jordan, who is the last police chief with a significant term before Whent in, I believe, 2013. There are even some periods where there have been two or three police chiefs in a week just because of the sheer amount of tumult in the Oakland Police Department as a result of several past scandals. You know, history will come back to bite you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I feel like Chief Armstrong has sort of become the principle person, as you’ve just been talking about, who’s really taken center stage in this scandal. But it seems like the problem is, in fact, deeper than him. So, what are the issues within OPD that this latest scandal has revealed?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>There are many issues that come up here. Consistency of discipline and the integrity of the internal affairs investigation is critical and at the center of all this. But there are bigger issues with the quality of people who OPD have brought in, their screening process for recruits, how they determine who should be promoted to a supervisory position or not, and then potentially whether or not there is outside influence in terms of Sergeant Chung being in his position. And if there was interference with – like, hey, look, this guy is…he’s our boy, don’t mess with him. Give him a slap on the wrist. Sergeant Chung made Sergeant within six years of joining the police department. He joined in 2013. There’s questions as to how someone rose that fast, but there are many, many issues here that deal with broader, not just cultural problems, in the department, but what the federal judge overseeing OPD’s consent decree called “rot” in his remarks a couple of weeks ago.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Do you think that there’s just too much attention being given to just Chief Armstrong as sort of the main character in this new story about OPD?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>Yes, I do. It’s unfortunate. It’s quite typical because the shiny dime kind of leads the news. What actually happened, the true incident at question here and the real problems are at a level below the chief. And in some ways, police chiefs are actually – this is going to sound funny, but they’re not really that important in some respects because they come and go within five years at the longest. And a lot of them kind of are keepers of the flame. They don’t really change much around their subject to political shifts as well. Mayors like to bring in their own chiefs, their own people. But what really happens, kind of [at] the captain- and deputy chief- and lieutenant-level is really more important for the day-to-day functions of the department. So, I do think that as time goes on and more information comes out about the incidents at the heart of this, the narrative will start to shift. But right now, there is way too much attention being focused on kind of the top-line issue.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>One thing you’re also sort of alluding to is the idea that some of these problems are problems that should have ideally been fixed as a result of federal oversight, right, which has been going on for decades? And that is supposed to lead to reform and changes within the police department. So, has anything actually improved within the department?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>Yes, the Oakland Police Department is not the same police department it was in the 2000s. The police department no longer shoots 12 to 14 people a year. That was the case when I first started covering Oakland in 2008. Now, because of a huge modification in the chase policy, as a result, now we’re down to maybe one to four, which is still too many. But that in and of itself is a massive change. The department also engaged and overhauled its policy of strip-searching people in public. At one point that was very common. They’d engage in cavity searches in public streets of people for narcotics. The department also engaged in a massive study of racial profiling efforts. They studied the traffic stops and the walking stops that the Oakland Police Department engaged in. And in conjunction with Jennifer Eberhardt, a professor at Stanford, [they] were able to discern a pattern of vastly overpolicing African-Americans. And they’ve tried to readjust, readdress that racial balance. So, there have been big changes in the Oakland Police Department’s policies in their composition. The problem with the internal affairs process is that in the city’s eagerness to get out from under the consent decree, in the city’s desire to kind of clear the decks, they treat it as a box to be checked and something to be dealt with and filed away rather than lasting reforms that are meant to reshape the institution and reshape the way that policing is done in Oakland. I think that LeRonne Armstrong may have fallen into the same trap. I know that when he assumes his role as the head of the police department, he basically said, we’re going to get this consent decree done and we’re going to do away with it, and we need to make certain that nothing goes wrong. But again, we have to wait for the full shape of the alleged incident and the way in which it was disposed of to come to light.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Where do things stand right now for the police chief, and how has he responded to being put on leave?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>Well, LeRonne Armstrong hired a high profile PR consultant named Sam Singer, who’s worked for some of the more colorful characters in the Bay Area when they come under fire, including Chevron. And they’ve gone on the offensive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Cable news anchor: \u003c/strong>Now at eight, embattled Oakland Police Chief LeRonne Armstrong continues to push for his reinstatement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>And mounted a number of press conferences.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Unknown: \u003c/strong>LeRonne is a man of integrity. He is a man of honesty, of commitment, and most of all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>To put pressure on Mayor Sheng Thao to reinstate LeRonne Armstrong as police chief and blames Robert Warshaw, the current federal monitor of OPD.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Unknown: \u003c/strong>I’m from West Oakland. I won’t pick a fight, but I ain’t running from none. I’m not running from none.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>There have also been a number of really nasty racial tensions that have evolved from this, especially if you look at some of the message boards and the comments that have been made on social media about his suspension. There are tensions growing now between some elements of the African-American and the Asian community in Oakland. So, that’s where we stand. Right now, he’s still on administrative leave. Darren Allison, the assistant police chief, is now in temporary charge of the police department. And it remains to be seen what the federal court will do with regard to LeRonne Armstrong’s position, because in the end, they have the ability to determine whether or not he should or should not be in charge of the Oakland Police Department.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So, if you could shake someone’s shoulders and tell them what this story is really about, what would you say?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ali Winston: \u003c/strong>It’s about police culture and the kind of reactionary nature of it. You know, the inability of that culture to change itself from the inside. And frankly, one thing that my colleague and I, in our book, really – one of our bigger conclusions is that change and reform for police departments only comes with relentless outside pressure. Be that through protest movements, court monitors, independent oversight bodies, politicians who actually pay attention to what’s happening in the city rather than going along with what a lobbying group wants or what a particular institution wants. That’s really where change comes from. This is a problem generations of Oaklanders have been dealing with for a long time. It’s grave, and I want to reemphasize that these seemingly episodic problems, they have a much longer tale and they echo out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Oakland city officials say there are still more details of the investigation that have not been made public, including confidential interviews with OPD officers. Meanwhile, yesterday, Armstrong and his supporters held another public event, this time outside OPD headquarters to demand that he get his job back. That was Ali Winston, an independent journalist and coauthor of “The Riders Come Out at Night,” which was co-written by him and Darwin BondGraham of the Oaklandside. This 45-minute conversation with Ali was cut down and edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. Producer Maria Esquinca scored this one and added all the tape. And our intern is Jehlen Herdman. And that’s it for The Bay. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Thank you so much for listening. Talk to you next time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"title": "How a Coffee Boycott Helped End a Civil War",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">An often-overlooked moment in Bay Area activism took place in the 1980s and 90s, when a broad coalition of activists targeted San Francisco’s coffee industry to protest the civil war in El Salvador. KQED’s \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/sminobucheli\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sebastian Miño-Bucheli\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> joins us to talk about how it happened.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC3318445824&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links: \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13928571/salvadoran-coffee-boycott-folgers-fred-ross-san-francisco\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Time a Bay Area Coffee Boycott Helped Stop a Civil War\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.fredrossproject.org/fred-ross-jr-timeline\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A timeline of Fred Ross Jr., executive director of Neighbor to Neighbor \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and Welcome to the Bay. Local News to Keep You Rooted. One day in February of 1990, about 100 protesters gathered at Pier 96 in San Francisco’s Bayview neighborhood. They came to stop precious cargo from moving for the San Francisco ports, coffee beans from El Salvador. For the activists, those coffee beans were the moneymaking engine behind a brutal civil war going on in El Salvador. And if San Francisco’s big coffee companies were buying up those beans, they thought they were effectively funding a civil war, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Monika Trobits: \u003c/strong>They argue that El Salvador $400 million worth of annual coffee exports mainly benefited a handful of families in El Salvador, which was in turn financing the military atrocities against the local civilians there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Despite the Bay Area’s iconic history of activism, the history of Salvadorians and port workers throughout the eighties and nineties is a lesser known story. So today we’re going to talk with reporter Sebastian Miño-Bucheli about how these efforts by Bay Area activists would eventually help end a war. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>So I spoke with Felix.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Felix Kury: \u003c/strong>Felix Kury.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>He’s a retired lecturer who taught mental health classes at State for 30 years in Latino Latino Studies Department. He was born in San Francisco but went back to El Salvador. And it was in that time that there was this repression going on because of a military dictatorship that had been ongoing since the 1930s in 1932.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Felix Kury: \u003c/strong>Right. There were about 30,000 people that were killed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>He tells me that, you know, the repression is so bad that if you were from a different class, you couldn’t walk on a certain street without getting harassed by the military or the police.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Felix Kury: \u003c/strong>We understood and we knew that the military controlled the state. And behind them they were pure in their right to the oligarchs. They controlled absolutely everything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>He went through all of this basically, and came to a time where he went back to the United States.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So he was here in the United States as a student. He was going to school in San Francisco. But he was also very much aware of what was happening in El Salvador. How did he describe what it was like to be a student during that time? And what were some of the things that were like on his mind?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>So he and other Salvadorans were following the news back home. They were constantly checking to see if something had happened, if their family members were okay. This is a time period where, you know, if you spoke out against the government, you disappeared.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Felix Kury: \u003c/strong>What it was really important for many of us of my generation, is the massacre of 1975 in El Salvador of university student. And that’s how we began to organize. And we met, you know, with oil companeros and and also Salvadorians, and decided that we needed to do that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>Even got to the point where they even occupied the Salvadoran consulate here in San Francisco just to raise awareness about what was going on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Felix Kury: \u003c/strong>To stop the war, to stop doing the repression.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And was there a moment in particular where he was like, Whoa, this is really, really bad?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>That was really the assassination of Monsignor Oscar Romero. He was an archbishop in El Salvador.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Felix Kury: \u003c/strong>And he was the spiritual advisor of my school. And I will see him all the time when I was in Selma, Ala. And so I will go to confession to him and all of that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>He was telling me all of this in his living room where there was a a portrait of Archbishop Romero.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Felix Kury: \u003c/strong>You know, Archbishop Romero began to talk about what was happening until now, what didn’t matter, the unknown. They were they probably said later, we all share this and no matter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>The archbishop was assassinated tearing homily. He’s denouncing the government and the repression that someone went up and assassinated the archbishop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Felix Kury: \u003c/strong>The murderer of the of the bishop gave a signal for many of us that no one would be safe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>I spoke to him on the day that the anniversary had happened where he was assassinated. And so it was this like heavy moment for both of us. We’re like, I’m sorry, we’re living through this trauma. Other Salvadorans can tell you this, that it was very detrimental to to them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And it also was a moment that sort of began to kick off what would become a civil war in El Salvador, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Felix Kury: \u003c/strong>And then all of us began to say, what do we do? You know, what do we do? We have to go beyond working with Salvadorians to develop a movement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Felix Khoury joined other like minded people to form the Eastbay Interfaith Task Force on El Salvador in November of 1980. This group teamed up with port workers to stop the U.S. government from shipping weapons and tanks from the Port of Oakland. This action spread up and down the West Coast. This blockade also set the stage for another protest action that tried to hit the Salvadoran government where it would hurt the most. Its coffee industry, which at the time was really important to San Francisco to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>Here in San Francisco, you have the big three coffee companies along with Hill’s brothers and MJB, which was founded in San Francisco in the late 19th century. A lot of coffee that was coming from Latin America was being offloaded in San Francisco or, you know, in the Bay Area. From here. I would just go on to the East Coast, to Southwest, etc..\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So it was a big deal in San Francisco. But how big of a deal was coffee for a country like El Salvador at the time? Like what was the connection that people were making between coffee and the war?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>So like the way that El Salvador was able to generate income around this time was that the country itself became a monoculture of coffee, that people who are benefiting from this, they were called the 14th families. They were these rich landowners, but they also had their hand in politics and also the military. So we can also say that they’re oligarchs. By just funding coffee, you are also helping the Salvadoran government and military regime. So that’s like one thing to keep in mind. Like when people were trying to target Salvadorian coffee, it was because they wanted to hurt the pockets of the 14 families.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>One of the most important groups that led these coffee protests was called Neighbor to Neighbor, and it was led by a labor organizer from San Francisco named Fred Ross Jr. Their goal was to stop U.S. aid to Nicaragua and El Salvador, and they had members all over the country. How do these activists begin to impact the coffee industry? Like, what did that look like exactly for these activists in the Bay Area?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>So it really began with like TV spots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Commercial \u003c/strong>Your tax dollars are putting America into the red, the red of El Salvador. $4 billion in ten years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>Where they were just trying to raise awareness that as Americans, we should stop drinking coffee that comes from El Salvador. Those ads never really got to air because they were considered too violent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>News Anchor: \u003c/strong>With four w mtw is not alone. No network affiliate in the Portland area will run the ad for.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>They show just brutal images from the war. They show like a coffee cup that has blood spilling out of it. And so that was one of the ways that they were trying to do this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So neighbor to neighbor began organizing. But things I know really picked up in 1990. Can you tell me about what happened in 1990?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>Around 60% of Salvadoran coffee harvests were being shipped to United States. And it was at that time it was like the biggest buyer, the market.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Monika Trobits: \u003c/strong>And what happened was you had a little war going on down there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>Monika Trobits is a historian and author Bay Area Coffee.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Monika Trobits: \u003c/strong>And what they wanted the dockworkers to do was not unload any ship, any freighter coming in from El Salvador carrying all these coffee beans, just flat out, don’t do it. And one fine day in February of 1990, one of those freighter sales it with 34 tons of Salvadorian coffee beans. That is a lot of coffee beans.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>They set up picket lines to stop Salvadorian coffee.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Monika Trobits: \u003c/strong>And it is met by neighbor to neighbor protesters, about 100 of them marching back and forth along the dock and longshoreman.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>They did not want to cross the picket line. So they also joined in on the effort to stop the offloading of Salvadorian coffee.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Monika Trobits: \u003c/strong>The freighter was now being unloaded. So the captain decided to move on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>They were able to stop this cargo ship from undocking all over the West Coast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Monika Trobits: \u003c/strong>Sailed up to Vancouver near Canada, met the same kind of resistance, went down to Seattle, same thing happened. Headed down to Long Beach. Exact same thing happened.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>The captain of the ship that went over into the said, We’re going to have to just go back home. We can’t dock anywhere and offload our coffee.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Monika Trobits: \u003c/strong>So in the end, this freighter had every one of those beans, ended up going back to El Salvador.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So I know this protest spread from San Francisco up and down the West Coast. How long did it ultimately last?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>This boycott lasted two years while it was going on. The San Francisco Board of Supervisors voted to boycott Salvadoran coffee beans. The California state legislature formally protested human rights violations against civilians by the Salvadoran military. They were neighbor, really did their job.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And how about El Salvador? I mean, what impact did these protests end up having there?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>A series of events where you had a grandson from The Gamble family, from Procter and Gamble.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Monika Trobits: \u003c/strong>Folgers by this point was owned by Procter and Gamble.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>They were trying to raise awareness that, you know, we got to stop buying coffee from El Salvador. We got to do something. We can’t continue on with this boycott. The fear of a boycott happening to a company, in essence, is enough to scare the company, to just follow through with the message that people want. Procter Gamble, Nestlé and Kraft took out ads in the Salvadoran newspaper urging the government to negotiate a peace settlement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And so when did a peace settlement ultimately happen?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>So it happened between that like New Year’s Eve of 1991, 1992, when it was formally signed. Two months later, they were neighbors saw that this was a win and they just stopped the boycott.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>The story is really cool and like amazing to see just such a cross-section of people coming together in this effort that really originated here in the Bay Area and then had such a big impact in another country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>I initially read this book on Bay Area History and Coffee, and one thing I really loved about it was like this, this solidarity to come together. You have, you know, people who are being displaced from the country because of war. They’re coming together to help others in their time of need. You have a collaboration between two unions. They want to help each other. And then you also hearing from the people and what they’re going through. Like, these are real people telling me what they were feeling back in the eighties and the early nineties, and I really wanted to tell their story. So it’s more reflected in the history that we know today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah. And I was just thinking, too. I mean, I grew up here in the Bay Area and we are known for like these really cool and amazing just moments in our history of activism. But this is like, not quite a story that I was actually aware of. And I wonder if, like, it was like an overlooked sort of part of our history of activism here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>I didn’t grow up here in the Bay, and I’ve heard about these, like you said, like grand stories of of activism. I really wish that this was a part of that, too, now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I guess it is. Yeah, reporting on it. Well, Sebastian, thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us. It was really fun talking with you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>Thanks for having me on the day. It was great. Speak with you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Sebastian Miño-Bucheli, a reporter for KQED. This conversation with Sebastian was cut down and edited by our senior editor, Alan Montecillo. Producer Maria Esquinca pitched this episode, scored it and added all the tape. Extra production support from me. Shout out to the rest of the podcast squad here at KQED. That’s Jen Chien, director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger, Podcast Operations Manager, Audience Engagement Support from César Saldaña, and Holly Kernan is our chief content officer. The Bay is a production of member supported people powered KQED. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Talk to you next week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">An often-overlooked moment in Bay Area activism took place in the 1980s and 90s, when a broad coalition of activists targeted San Francisco’s coffee industry to protest the civil war in El Salvador. KQED’s \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/sminobucheli\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Sebastian Miño-Bucheli\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> joins us to talk about how it happened.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC3318445824&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links: \u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13928571/salvadoran-coffee-boycott-folgers-fred-ross-san-francisco\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Time a Bay Area Coffee Boycott Helped Stop a Civil War\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.fredrossproject.org/fred-ross-jr-timeline\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A timeline of Fred Ross Jr., executive director of Neighbor to Neighbor \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and Welcome to the Bay. Local News to Keep You Rooted. One day in February of 1990, about 100 protesters gathered at Pier 96 in San Francisco’s Bayview neighborhood. They came to stop precious cargo from moving for the San Francisco ports, coffee beans from El Salvador. For the activists, those coffee beans were the moneymaking engine behind a brutal civil war going on in El Salvador. And if San Francisco’s big coffee companies were buying up those beans, they thought they were effectively funding a civil war, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Monika Trobits: \u003c/strong>They argue that El Salvador $400 million worth of annual coffee exports mainly benefited a handful of families in El Salvador, which was in turn financing the military atrocities against the local civilians there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Despite the Bay Area’s iconic history of activism, the history of Salvadorians and port workers throughout the eighties and nineties is a lesser known story. So today we’re going to talk with reporter Sebastian Miño-Bucheli about how these efforts by Bay Area activists would eventually help end a war. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>So I spoke with Felix.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Felix Kury: \u003c/strong>Felix Kury.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>He’s a retired lecturer who taught mental health classes at State for 30 years in Latino Latino Studies Department. He was born in San Francisco but went back to El Salvador. And it was in that time that there was this repression going on because of a military dictatorship that had been ongoing since the 1930s in 1932.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Felix Kury: \u003c/strong>Right. There were about 30,000 people that were killed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>He tells me that, you know, the repression is so bad that if you were from a different class, you couldn’t walk on a certain street without getting harassed by the military or the police.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Felix Kury: \u003c/strong>We understood and we knew that the military controlled the state. And behind them they were pure in their right to the oligarchs. They controlled absolutely everything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>He went through all of this basically, and came to a time where he went back to the United States.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So he was here in the United States as a student. He was going to school in San Francisco. But he was also very much aware of what was happening in El Salvador. How did he describe what it was like to be a student during that time? And what were some of the things that were like on his mind?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>So he and other Salvadorans were following the news back home. They were constantly checking to see if something had happened, if their family members were okay. This is a time period where, you know, if you spoke out against the government, you disappeared.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Felix Kury: \u003c/strong>What it was really important for many of us of my generation, is the massacre of 1975 in El Salvador of university student. And that’s how we began to organize. And we met, you know, with oil companeros and and also Salvadorians, and decided that we needed to do that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>Even got to the point where they even occupied the Salvadoran consulate here in San Francisco just to raise awareness about what was going on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Felix Kury: \u003c/strong>To stop the war, to stop doing the repression.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And was there a moment in particular where he was like, Whoa, this is really, really bad?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>That was really the assassination of Monsignor Oscar Romero. He was an archbishop in El Salvador.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Felix Kury: \u003c/strong>And he was the spiritual advisor of my school. And I will see him all the time when I was in Selma, Ala. And so I will go to confession to him and all of that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>He was telling me all of this in his living room where there was a a portrait of Archbishop Romero.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Felix Kury: \u003c/strong>You know, Archbishop Romero began to talk about what was happening until now, what didn’t matter, the unknown. They were they probably said later, we all share this and no matter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>The archbishop was assassinated tearing homily. He’s denouncing the government and the repression that someone went up and assassinated the archbishop.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Felix Kury: \u003c/strong>The murderer of the of the bishop gave a signal for many of us that no one would be safe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>I spoke to him on the day that the anniversary had happened where he was assassinated. And so it was this like heavy moment for both of us. We’re like, I’m sorry, we’re living through this trauma. Other Salvadorans can tell you this, that it was very detrimental to to them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And it also was a moment that sort of began to kick off what would become a civil war in El Salvador, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>Yeah.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Felix Kury: \u003c/strong>And then all of us began to say, what do we do? You know, what do we do? We have to go beyond working with Salvadorians to develop a movement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Felix Khoury joined other like minded people to form the Eastbay Interfaith Task Force on El Salvador in November of 1980. This group teamed up with port workers to stop the U.S. government from shipping weapons and tanks from the Port of Oakland. This action spread up and down the West Coast. This blockade also set the stage for another protest action that tried to hit the Salvadoran government where it would hurt the most. Its coffee industry, which at the time was really important to San Francisco to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>Here in San Francisco, you have the big three coffee companies along with Hill’s brothers and MJB, which was founded in San Francisco in the late 19th century. A lot of coffee that was coming from Latin America was being offloaded in San Francisco or, you know, in the Bay Area. From here. I would just go on to the East Coast, to Southwest, etc..\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So it was a big deal in San Francisco. But how big of a deal was coffee for a country like El Salvador at the time? Like what was the connection that people were making between coffee and the war?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>So like the way that El Salvador was able to generate income around this time was that the country itself became a monoculture of coffee, that people who are benefiting from this, they were called the 14th families. They were these rich landowners, but they also had their hand in politics and also the military. So we can also say that they’re oligarchs. By just funding coffee, you are also helping the Salvadoran government and military regime. So that’s like one thing to keep in mind. Like when people were trying to target Salvadorian coffee, it was because they wanted to hurt the pockets of the 14 families.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>One of the most important groups that led these coffee protests was called Neighbor to Neighbor, and it was led by a labor organizer from San Francisco named Fred Ross Jr. Their goal was to stop U.S. aid to Nicaragua and El Salvador, and they had members all over the country. How do these activists begin to impact the coffee industry? Like, what did that look like exactly for these activists in the Bay Area?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>So it really began with like TV spots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Commercial \u003c/strong>Your tax dollars are putting America into the red, the red of El Salvador. $4 billion in ten years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>Where they were just trying to raise awareness that as Americans, we should stop drinking coffee that comes from El Salvador. Those ads never really got to air because they were considered too violent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>News Anchor: \u003c/strong>With four w mtw is not alone. No network affiliate in the Portland area will run the ad for.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>They show just brutal images from the war. They show like a coffee cup that has blood spilling out of it. And so that was one of the ways that they were trying to do this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So neighbor to neighbor began organizing. But things I know really picked up in 1990. Can you tell me about what happened in 1990?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>Around 60% of Salvadoran coffee harvests were being shipped to United States. And it was at that time it was like the biggest buyer, the market.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Monika Trobits: \u003c/strong>And what happened was you had a little war going on down there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>Monika Trobits is a historian and author Bay Area Coffee.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Monika Trobits: \u003c/strong>And what they wanted the dockworkers to do was not unload any ship, any freighter coming in from El Salvador carrying all these coffee beans, just flat out, don’t do it. And one fine day in February of 1990, one of those freighter sales it with 34 tons of Salvadorian coffee beans. That is a lot of coffee beans.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>They set up picket lines to stop Salvadorian coffee.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Monika Trobits: \u003c/strong>And it is met by neighbor to neighbor protesters, about 100 of them marching back and forth along the dock and longshoreman.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>They did not want to cross the picket line. So they also joined in on the effort to stop the offloading of Salvadorian coffee.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Monika Trobits: \u003c/strong>The freighter was now being unloaded. So the captain decided to move on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>They were able to stop this cargo ship from undocking all over the West Coast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Monika Trobits: \u003c/strong>Sailed up to Vancouver near Canada, met the same kind of resistance, went down to Seattle, same thing happened. Headed down to Long Beach. Exact same thing happened.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>The captain of the ship that went over into the said, We’re going to have to just go back home. We can’t dock anywhere and offload our coffee.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Monika Trobits: \u003c/strong>So in the end, this freighter had every one of those beans, ended up going back to El Salvador.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So I know this protest spread from San Francisco up and down the West Coast. How long did it ultimately last?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>This boycott lasted two years while it was going on. The San Francisco Board of Supervisors voted to boycott Salvadoran coffee beans. The California state legislature formally protested human rights violations against civilians by the Salvadoran military. They were neighbor, really did their job.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And how about El Salvador? I mean, what impact did these protests end up having there?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>A series of events where you had a grandson from The Gamble family, from Procter and Gamble.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Monika Trobits: \u003c/strong>Folgers by this point was owned by Procter and Gamble.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>They were trying to raise awareness that, you know, we got to stop buying coffee from El Salvador. We got to do something. We can’t continue on with this boycott. The fear of a boycott happening to a company, in essence, is enough to scare the company, to just follow through with the message that people want. Procter Gamble, Nestlé and Kraft took out ads in the Salvadoran newspaper urging the government to negotiate a peace settlement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And so when did a peace settlement ultimately happen?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>So it happened between that like New Year’s Eve of 1991, 1992, when it was formally signed. Two months later, they were neighbors saw that this was a win and they just stopped the boycott.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>The story is really cool and like amazing to see just such a cross-section of people coming together in this effort that really originated here in the Bay Area and then had such a big impact in another country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>I initially read this book on Bay Area History and Coffee, and one thing I really loved about it was like this, this solidarity to come together. You have, you know, people who are being displaced from the country because of war. They’re coming together to help others in their time of need. You have a collaboration between two unions. They want to help each other. And then you also hearing from the people and what they’re going through. Like, these are real people telling me what they were feeling back in the eighties and the early nineties, and I really wanted to tell their story. So it’s more reflected in the history that we know today.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah. And I was just thinking, too. I mean, I grew up here in the Bay Area and we are known for like these really cool and amazing just moments in our history of activism. But this is like, not quite a story that I was actually aware of. And I wonder if, like, it was like an overlooked sort of part of our history of activism here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>I didn’t grow up here in the Bay, and I’ve heard about these, like you said, like grand stories of of activism. I really wish that this was a part of that, too, now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I guess it is. Yeah, reporting on it. Well, Sebastian, thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us. It was really fun talking with you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sebastian Miño-Bucheli: \u003c/strong>Thanks for having me on the day. It was great. Speak with you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Sebastian Miño-Bucheli, a reporter for KQED. This conversation with Sebastian was cut down and edited by our senior editor, Alan Montecillo. Producer Maria Esquinca pitched this episode, scored it and added all the tape. Extra production support from me. Shout out to the rest of the podcast squad here at KQED. That’s Jen Chien, director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger, Podcast Operations Manager, Audience Engagement Support from César Saldaña, and Holly Kernan is our chief content officer. The Bay is a production of member supported people powered KQED. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Talk to you next week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"title": "Get Ready For More Robotaxis in S.F.",
"headTitle": "Get Ready For More Robotaxis in S.F. | KQED",
"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This episode contains explicit language.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San Franciscans can expect to see more driverless cars on the road after California regulators approved a permit to allow Waymo and Cruise to charge fares.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Once again, the city is the testing ground for new technology. And people on both sides have strong feelings about it. Ida Mojadad from the San Francisco Standard breaks it all down for us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7090345903\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, And welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. Over the weekend, some self-driving cars, a.k.a. autonomous vehicles, a.k.a. robo taxis, got themselves into another little pickle in San Francisco’s North Beach neighborhood.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Unidentified: \u003c/strong>What the f•ck They’re–\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Several of these self-driving cars were just chillin in the middle of the road. Blinkers on blocking all kinds of traffic, apparently because of connectivity issues caused by the Outside Lands Music Festival. And the thing is, people have feelings about whether these self-driving cars are safer than human drivers. And whatever happens, there’s no doubt that we’re going to continue hearing about these things because California regulators just gave the go ahead for companies to put an unlimited number of these robo taxis on the roads in San Francisco. Today, the debate over self-driving cars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong> So, I pass by a cruise fleet every single day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Ida Mojadad: is a reporter for the San Francisco Standard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>I see it on my way home. On the way to work. Everywhere in between. They’re everywhere, really. But it’s still just a very weird sight, even though they’ve been pretty dominant on the streets this whole year. It’s still new and weird.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I think I probably fall in that weirded out bucket. But I mean, how long have people been talking about these robo taxis? How long have they been like, I guess, driving around San Francisco at this point?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>So the two that are in San Francisco, Cruise and Waymo have been able to operate and test driverless in the city since about last summer, but they have been really noticeable this whole year, especially in the spring. As you know, certain conflicts have emerged and more people have been able to take them. They have a waitlist for them, but they have tested trusted passengers. So as more people have been able to take them and and there’s just been more run ins with them, they’ve been really noticeable this whole year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And you mentioned Cruise and Waymo, these two big companies behind these driverless vehicles. Can you tell me about those companies? I know I know this idea has been a techie dream for a while.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>Sure. So Cruise is owned by General Motors and Waymo is run by Google’s parent company known as Alphabet. A lot of companies have invested in this technology. Billions have been poured into it, but these are the two that are currently in San Francisco and now able to carry people without a driver.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean, what is with these companies obsession with driverless cars? Like why are they putting so much effort into expanding these fleets?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>I think essentially they see it’s the way of the future. They are very enthusiastic about how transformative it can be for people. Their frequent, you know, arguments for it is that it can provide safer streets because they they say that they drive safer than humans and that they have an electric fleet. So it will help reduce emissions. But essentially, they see it as being the future.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>News anchor: \u003c/strong>We see San Francisco as a litmus test for the commercialization of Robotaxis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>News anchor: is the CEO of Cruise and he’s been pretty vocal and active about his company and shared excitement to to expand not just in San Francisco but cities across the country and to do a quick and aggressively.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>News anchor: \u003c/strong>You know, the rate of expansion has been pretty impressive. And this is not because we’re going just just going wild here. It’s actually because the system itself is improving so quickly. And so even just a couple of weeks ago on the GM earnings call, I said we were at about 10,000 rides per week. This last week it was 15,000.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>A lot of people have been talking about these driverless cars. They’ve been on the roads in San Francisco. What have they been allowed to do up until now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>So Waymo has been able to drive around with these cars for all hours of the day. And Cruise has been able to do during certain hours, mostly at night. But both of them essentially have not been able to charge people without a safety driver present. And that was the biggest hurdle to, you know, expanding their their business operations, essentially. Prior to the vote, Waymo had 250 vehicles in the city with about 100 in operation. Crews has about 400 with 300 operating at night as of last week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, I know a really important commission just made a huge decision about expanding these fleets in San Francisco. Can you remind us what the you see is and what was that meeting about exactly?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>The California Public Utilities Commission is, in this case tasked with weighing passenger safety in these autonomous vehicles known as robo taxis. And they already approved these, you know, initial permits that allow them to operate on the streets. And now they have just made a big decision to let them operate and charge people, saying that they met the requirements that were asked of them in the first place.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I know that there were people who are both for and against these robotaxis at this California Public Utilities Commission meeting. I know these companies, of course, are huge proponents of these, but who else was coming out in favor of robo taxis?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>So some big supporters are some street safety advocates, but also a lot of groups that advocate for blind people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Activist: \u003c/strong>As a blind woman, I am here fully to support autonomous technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>They seem to be very enthusiastic about it. They have already been, you know, in talks with these companies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Activist: \u003c/strong>Not only has being a Waymo tested rider provided me with a level of independence that I have never been able to experience before. It has provided me with a feeling of safety that I’ve never had before.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>Not all disability advocates agree, but they seem to be the most enthusiastic about this. And then there’s also a union, SEIU, that was also in favor of this, because they have been assured by one of the companies that they will be union jobs and their members need jobs right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>SEIU Spokesperson \u003c/strong>We already represent workers within cruise spaces. Cruise is one of the few tech companies in San Francisco that is celebrating the fact that they want to stay in San Francisco and operate in San Francisco. And right now, we need to be able to celebrate those opportunities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>There’s also this group Safer Roads for All, which is actually affiliated with the companies. What? What’s their deal? Who are they?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>They are more of a campaign that brings together tech industry groups. But Waymo is a the only actual company behind that. So these tech industry groups are advocating to let this technology move on. And, you know, the groups behind these have, you know, been advocating for anything from just general tech industry things to specifically autonomous vehicles. But essentially, they are tech groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How would you maybe summarize what it is that people like about these robo taxis?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>In essence, I think it’s the convenience of being able to get from point A to point B.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>News anchor: \u003c/strong>Autonomous vehicles represent a route to safer roads.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>Without driving themselves, without dealing with parking and without having a person in the vehicle. Maybe there’s more privacy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Advocate: \u003c/strong>As a woman who frequently needs to take rideshare or public transportation on a regular basis, and especially during evening hours, I feel much safer knowing that I’m writing, in a judgment free discrimination, free beer free vehicle rather than one that you nervously navigate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>There’s a novelty. And until last week, they had to be free when there was no driver.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>News anchor: \u003c/strong>I encourage the panel to please embrace this technology that our city and region have long been renowned for. Thank you for your time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So, I mean, there’s been a lot of excitement I know, around these, but there have also been some really strong feelings about them, too. Who is coming out against these robo taxis?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>The most vocal opponents of a large expansion of these vehicles are essentially human drivers, those who drive Uber and Lyft and taxi cabs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Driver: \u003c/strong>[SPANISH]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Translator: \u003c/strong>I’m raising five children, if the driverless cars expand, they’re going to take away the work from us. And I have.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>As well as some disability advocates who feel like this really just isn’t ready for them. People with more like physical disabilities, they’re in a wheelchair.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Activist: \u003c/strong>It’s an issue that we we don’t yet have an agreement on what accessibility looks like. How do folks like myself who are full time wheelchair users enter and use and exit these vehicles safely?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>City officials from departments of for first responders, transportation agencies and you know Mayor London breed the Board of supervisors President Aaron Peskin are really not for an immediate big expansion. They’re urging more of an incremental approach, but there’s also not a lot that they can do to to stop that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I know there’s also a lot of safety concerns from firefighters and also police and also first responders. Can you describe some of those incidents for us?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>News anchor: \u003c/strong>Now to an autonomous car that got stuck for hours today on San Francisco Street. This is the latest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>So the fire department has tallied over 50 incidents this year where they have been blocked from doing their job because one of these vehicles, you know, stopped, maybe has overreacted and just didn’t want to run into anything. It’s hard to say exactly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>News anchor: : \u003c/strong>Firefighters describe driverless cars rolling into fire scenes, running over hoses, even having to break windshields to stop a vehicle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>It’s meant that sometimes these firefighters, while they’re, you know, trying to respond to a fire, are stuck babysitting a robotaxi for a roughly half an hour, which is not what the robotaxi companies themselves say happens. But it’s it’s been noticeable enough to interfere with their jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Jeanine Nicholson: \u003c/strong>I’m not it’s high technology. What I am is part of safety.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>The San Francisco Fire Department chief is Jeanine Nicholson, and she has been pretty vocal that it’s not their job to babysit these cars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Jeanine Nicholson: \u003c/strong>Every second can make the difference if you are blocked by an autonomous vehicle. A fire will double in size. And even if that could lead to more and to the people in that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>It is the job of these companies to stay out of their way and train their cars to stay out of their way, and that the training that first responders have received so far from the companies they say doesn’t match what’s actually happening on the ground.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Jeanine Nicholson: \u003c/strong>But what would have really helped would have been a two way conversation seven years ago. It’s been a one way conversation up until very recently.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>And ultimately, she feels that the transparency has been lacking, the collaboration has been lacking, and that it just overall needs to stop interfering with doing the business of saving lives and people’s homes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Jeanine Nicholson: \u003c/strong>It’s the unpredictability, the obstructions and the lack of working with us is really that it is really a problem. They are still not ready for prime time because of how they have impacted our operations. And and, you know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I feel like I also have to ask you about the cones that are being put on these robo taxis sort of as a form of protest. What are those about?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>So over the summer, it was another noticeable aspect of these cars is that it has been that there’s been some activists who were placing cones on them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>News anchor: : \u003c/strong>Marking autonomous vehicles as traffic hazards. The group Safe Street Rebels is placing cones on cruise and Waymo cars as a way to temporarily stop that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>You know, would basically make them not go anywhere and have to be retrieved by the companies. You know, there’s even been some like reports that a firefighter has done that to to to prevent them from interfering further. But the city does not condone it. And it’s it’s just the most visible sign of resistance to this technology and some of the havoc that people say it’s been bringing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>In terms of what’s next. I do want to ask you about the commission vote. I know they ultimately approved this new permit for robo taxis. Can you explain how they came to that vote?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>So Commissioner Genevieve Sharma was one of the four commissioners who was urging caution, saying they’re not ready for prime time as well, and that they just need more time to really understand the data to from these companies and from the city.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Unidentified: \u003c/strong>Because of this insufficient record. I believe it is premature to vote to approve these resolutions today. Instead, the resolution should be held or withdrawn so that crews and Waymo have the additional time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>The other three commissioners voted in favor for saying that they met the requirements that were asked of them, that they can always add more restrictions later. And one of the commissioners, Commissioner John Reynolds, was a little bit more enthusiastic about them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>John Reynolds \u003c/strong>Today is the first of many steps in bringing transportation services to Californians and setting a successful and transparent model for other states to follow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>He actually used to be general counsel for Cruise, but didn’t have to recuse himself because enough time had passed. Commissioner Reynolds said that, you know, he’s able to advocate for both, you know, the people of California and can see what this technology does, essentially.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Unidentified: \u003c/strong>Commissioner John Reynolds. Yes. Mr. Houck? Yes. Commissioner Sherman. No as. Alice Reynolds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Advocate: \u003c/strong>Yes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Unknown: \u003c/strong>The vote is three one, tthe item passes. All right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I will now. Well, you mentioned this means there’s going to be a huge expansion of these fleets in San Francisco. But I mean, I definitely have not seen one of these robot taxis where I live in Vallejo. But, I mean, with this vote, does that mean that we could see them possibly expand to other cities?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>This vote is specific to San Francisco, but there are many other companies that are doing testing in the Bay Area, both on the peninsula and other places. So people in Nevada Bay Area will probably see these around as more companies continue to test and seek more approvals. Waymo and Cruise are going to be more dominant in the city itself, but everyone’s going to be seeing them more in the future, that’s for sure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, I mean, I that this for some reason feels like such a San Francisco story. What do you think this debate says about where San Francisco is at right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>Well, San Francisco is kind of once again the testing ground for a lot of this emerging technology. We saw with Uber and Lyft. That was our biggest example. And this time, city officials are really not wanting to be the guinea pigs. But for other people, it’s really exciting to be the first ones to do this and to see this, you know, get the first access to a glimpse into the future, a little bit of the Jetsons people compared to. So there’s kind of this split and excitement and trepidation about where this leaves the city. But once again, the city is seeing it before many others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Ida, thank you so much for joining us on the show.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Ida Mojadad, a reporter for the San Francisco Standard. This 28 minute conversation with Ida was cut down and edited by producer Maria Esquinca. It was pitched by senior editor Alan Motecillo, who added all the tape. This episode was scored by me. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara. The Bay is a production of member supported KQED in San Francisco. Thank you so much for listening to next time.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This episode contains explicit language.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San Franciscans can expect to see more driverless cars on the road after California regulators approved a permit to allow Waymo and Cruise to charge fares.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Once again, the city is the testing ground for new technology. And people on both sides have strong feelings about it. Ida Mojadad from the San Francisco Standard breaks it all down for us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7090345903\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, And welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. Over the weekend, some self-driving cars, a.k.a. autonomous vehicles, a.k.a. robo taxis, got themselves into another little pickle in San Francisco’s North Beach neighborhood.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Unidentified: \u003c/strong>What the f•ck They’re–\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Several of these self-driving cars were just chillin in the middle of the road. Blinkers on blocking all kinds of traffic, apparently because of connectivity issues caused by the Outside Lands Music Festival. And the thing is, people have feelings about whether these self-driving cars are safer than human drivers. And whatever happens, there’s no doubt that we’re going to continue hearing about these things because California regulators just gave the go ahead for companies to put an unlimited number of these robo taxis on the roads in San Francisco. Today, the debate over self-driving cars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong> So, I pass by a cruise fleet every single day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Ida Mojadad: is a reporter for the San Francisco Standard.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>I see it on my way home. On the way to work. Everywhere in between. They’re everywhere, really. But it’s still just a very weird sight, even though they’ve been pretty dominant on the streets this whole year. It’s still new and weird.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I think I probably fall in that weirded out bucket. But I mean, how long have people been talking about these robo taxis? How long have they been like, I guess, driving around San Francisco at this point?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>So the two that are in San Francisco, Cruise and Waymo have been able to operate and test driverless in the city since about last summer, but they have been really noticeable this whole year, especially in the spring. As you know, certain conflicts have emerged and more people have been able to take them. They have a waitlist for them, but they have tested trusted passengers. So as more people have been able to take them and and there’s just been more run ins with them, they’ve been really noticeable this whole year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And you mentioned Cruise and Waymo, these two big companies behind these driverless vehicles. Can you tell me about those companies? I know I know this idea has been a techie dream for a while.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>Sure. So Cruise is owned by General Motors and Waymo is run by Google’s parent company known as Alphabet. A lot of companies have invested in this technology. Billions have been poured into it, but these are the two that are currently in San Francisco and now able to carry people without a driver.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean, what is with these companies obsession with driverless cars? Like why are they putting so much effort into expanding these fleets?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>I think essentially they see it’s the way of the future. They are very enthusiastic about how transformative it can be for people. Their frequent, you know, arguments for it is that it can provide safer streets because they they say that they drive safer than humans and that they have an electric fleet. So it will help reduce emissions. But essentially, they see it as being the future.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>News anchor: \u003c/strong>We see San Francisco as a litmus test for the commercialization of Robotaxis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>News anchor: is the CEO of Cruise and he’s been pretty vocal and active about his company and shared excitement to to expand not just in San Francisco but cities across the country and to do a quick and aggressively.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>News anchor: \u003c/strong>You know, the rate of expansion has been pretty impressive. And this is not because we’re going just just going wild here. It’s actually because the system itself is improving so quickly. And so even just a couple of weeks ago on the GM earnings call, I said we were at about 10,000 rides per week. This last week it was 15,000.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>A lot of people have been talking about these driverless cars. They’ve been on the roads in San Francisco. What have they been allowed to do up until now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>So Waymo has been able to drive around with these cars for all hours of the day. And Cruise has been able to do during certain hours, mostly at night. But both of them essentially have not been able to charge people without a safety driver present. And that was the biggest hurdle to, you know, expanding their their business operations, essentially. Prior to the vote, Waymo had 250 vehicles in the city with about 100 in operation. Crews has about 400 with 300 operating at night as of last week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, I know a really important commission just made a huge decision about expanding these fleets in San Francisco. Can you remind us what the you see is and what was that meeting about exactly?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>The California Public Utilities Commission is, in this case tasked with weighing passenger safety in these autonomous vehicles known as robo taxis. And they already approved these, you know, initial permits that allow them to operate on the streets. And now they have just made a big decision to let them operate and charge people, saying that they met the requirements that were asked of them in the first place.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I know that there were people who are both for and against these robotaxis at this California Public Utilities Commission meeting. I know these companies, of course, are huge proponents of these, but who else was coming out in favor of robo taxis?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>So some big supporters are some street safety advocates, but also a lot of groups that advocate for blind people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Activist: \u003c/strong>As a blind woman, I am here fully to support autonomous technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>They seem to be very enthusiastic about it. They have already been, you know, in talks with these companies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Activist: \u003c/strong>Not only has being a Waymo tested rider provided me with a level of independence that I have never been able to experience before. It has provided me with a feeling of safety that I’ve never had before.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>Not all disability advocates agree, but they seem to be the most enthusiastic about this. And then there’s also a union, SEIU, that was also in favor of this, because they have been assured by one of the companies that they will be union jobs and their members need jobs right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>SEIU Spokesperson \u003c/strong>We already represent workers within cruise spaces. Cruise is one of the few tech companies in San Francisco that is celebrating the fact that they want to stay in San Francisco and operate in San Francisco. And right now, we need to be able to celebrate those opportunities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>There’s also this group Safer Roads for All, which is actually affiliated with the companies. What? What’s their deal? Who are they?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>They are more of a campaign that brings together tech industry groups. But Waymo is a the only actual company behind that. So these tech industry groups are advocating to let this technology move on. And, you know, the groups behind these have, you know, been advocating for anything from just general tech industry things to specifically autonomous vehicles. But essentially, they are tech groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How would you maybe summarize what it is that people like about these robo taxis?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>In essence, I think it’s the convenience of being able to get from point A to point B.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>News anchor: \u003c/strong>Autonomous vehicles represent a route to safer roads.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>Without driving themselves, without dealing with parking and without having a person in the vehicle. Maybe there’s more privacy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Advocate: \u003c/strong>As a woman who frequently needs to take rideshare or public transportation on a regular basis, and especially during evening hours, I feel much safer knowing that I’m writing, in a judgment free discrimination, free beer free vehicle rather than one that you nervously navigate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>There’s a novelty. And until last week, they had to be free when there was no driver.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>News anchor: \u003c/strong>I encourage the panel to please embrace this technology that our city and region have long been renowned for. Thank you for your time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So, I mean, there’s been a lot of excitement I know, around these, but there have also been some really strong feelings about them, too. Who is coming out against these robo taxis?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>The most vocal opponents of a large expansion of these vehicles are essentially human drivers, those who drive Uber and Lyft and taxi cabs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Driver: \u003c/strong>[SPANISH]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Translator: \u003c/strong>I’m raising five children, if the driverless cars expand, they’re going to take away the work from us. And I have.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>As well as some disability advocates who feel like this really just isn’t ready for them. People with more like physical disabilities, they’re in a wheelchair.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Activist: \u003c/strong>It’s an issue that we we don’t yet have an agreement on what accessibility looks like. How do folks like myself who are full time wheelchair users enter and use and exit these vehicles safely?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>City officials from departments of for first responders, transportation agencies and you know Mayor London breed the Board of supervisors President Aaron Peskin are really not for an immediate big expansion. They’re urging more of an incremental approach, but there’s also not a lot that they can do to to stop that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I know there’s also a lot of safety concerns from firefighters and also police and also first responders. Can you describe some of those incidents for us?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>News anchor: \u003c/strong>Now to an autonomous car that got stuck for hours today on San Francisco Street. This is the latest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>So the fire department has tallied over 50 incidents this year where they have been blocked from doing their job because one of these vehicles, you know, stopped, maybe has overreacted and just didn’t want to run into anything. It’s hard to say exactly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>News anchor: : \u003c/strong>Firefighters describe driverless cars rolling into fire scenes, running over hoses, even having to break windshields to stop a vehicle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>It’s meant that sometimes these firefighters, while they’re, you know, trying to respond to a fire, are stuck babysitting a robotaxi for a roughly half an hour, which is not what the robotaxi companies themselves say happens. But it’s it’s been noticeable enough to interfere with their jobs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Jeanine Nicholson: \u003c/strong>I’m not it’s high technology. What I am is part of safety.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>The San Francisco Fire Department chief is Jeanine Nicholson, and she has been pretty vocal that it’s not their job to babysit these cars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Jeanine Nicholson: \u003c/strong>Every second can make the difference if you are blocked by an autonomous vehicle. A fire will double in size. And even if that could lead to more and to the people in that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>It is the job of these companies to stay out of their way and train their cars to stay out of their way, and that the training that first responders have received so far from the companies they say doesn’t match what’s actually happening on the ground.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Jeanine Nicholson: \u003c/strong>But what would have really helped would have been a two way conversation seven years ago. It’s been a one way conversation up until very recently.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>And ultimately, she feels that the transparency has been lacking, the collaboration has been lacking, and that it just overall needs to stop interfering with doing the business of saving lives and people’s homes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Jeanine Nicholson: \u003c/strong>It’s the unpredictability, the obstructions and the lack of working with us is really that it is really a problem. They are still not ready for prime time because of how they have impacted our operations. And and, you know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I feel like I also have to ask you about the cones that are being put on these robo taxis sort of as a form of protest. What are those about?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>So over the summer, it was another noticeable aspect of these cars is that it has been that there’s been some activists who were placing cones on them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>News anchor: : \u003c/strong>Marking autonomous vehicles as traffic hazards. The group Safe Street Rebels is placing cones on cruise and Waymo cars as a way to temporarily stop that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>You know, would basically make them not go anywhere and have to be retrieved by the companies. You know, there’s even been some like reports that a firefighter has done that to to to prevent them from interfering further. But the city does not condone it. And it’s it’s just the most visible sign of resistance to this technology and some of the havoc that people say it’s been bringing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>In terms of what’s next. I do want to ask you about the commission vote. I know they ultimately approved this new permit for robo taxis. Can you explain how they came to that vote?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>So Commissioner Genevieve Sharma was one of the four commissioners who was urging caution, saying they’re not ready for prime time as well, and that they just need more time to really understand the data to from these companies and from the city.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Unidentified: \u003c/strong>Because of this insufficient record. I believe it is premature to vote to approve these resolutions today. Instead, the resolution should be held or withdrawn so that crews and Waymo have the additional time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>The other three commissioners voted in favor for saying that they met the requirements that were asked of them, that they can always add more restrictions later. And one of the commissioners, Commissioner John Reynolds, was a little bit more enthusiastic about them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>John Reynolds \u003c/strong>Today is the first of many steps in bringing transportation services to Californians and setting a successful and transparent model for other states to follow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>He actually used to be general counsel for Cruise, but didn’t have to recuse himself because enough time had passed. Commissioner Reynolds said that, you know, he’s able to advocate for both, you know, the people of California and can see what this technology does, essentially.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Unidentified: \u003c/strong>Commissioner John Reynolds. Yes. Mr. Houck? Yes. Commissioner Sherman. No as. Alice Reynolds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Advocate: \u003c/strong>Yes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Unknown: \u003c/strong>The vote is three one, tthe item passes. All right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I will now. Well, you mentioned this means there’s going to be a huge expansion of these fleets in San Francisco. But I mean, I definitely have not seen one of these robot taxis where I live in Vallejo. But, I mean, with this vote, does that mean that we could see them possibly expand to other cities?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>This vote is specific to San Francisco, but there are many other companies that are doing testing in the Bay Area, both on the peninsula and other places. So people in Nevada Bay Area will probably see these around as more companies continue to test and seek more approvals. Waymo and Cruise are going to be more dominant in the city itself, but everyone’s going to be seeing them more in the future, that’s for sure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, I mean, I that this for some reason feels like such a San Francisco story. What do you think this debate says about where San Francisco is at right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>Well, San Francisco is kind of once again the testing ground for a lot of this emerging technology. We saw with Uber and Lyft. That was our biggest example. And this time, city officials are really not wanting to be the guinea pigs. But for other people, it’s really exciting to be the first ones to do this and to see this, you know, get the first access to a glimpse into the future, a little bit of the Jetsons people compared to. So there’s kind of this split and excitement and trepidation about where this leaves the city. But once again, the city is seeing it before many others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Ida, thank you so much for joining us on the show.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ida Mojadad: \u003c/strong>Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Ida Mojadad, a reporter for the San Francisco Standard. This 28 minute conversation with Ida was cut down and edited by producer Maria Esquinca. It was pitched by senior editor Alan Motecillo, who added all the tape. This episode was scored by me. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara. The Bay is a production of member supported KQED in San Francisco. Thank you so much for listening to next time.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
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"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
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"mindshift": {
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"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
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"order": 12
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"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
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"tagline": "Politics from a personal perspective",
"info": "Political Breakdown is a new series that explores the political intersection of California and the nation. Each week hosts Scott Shafer and Marisa Lagos are joined with a new special guest to unpack politics -- with personality — and offer an insider’s glimpse at how politics happens.",
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"possible": {
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"title": "Possible",
"info": "Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? Each episode also includes a short fiction story generated by advanced AI GPT-4, serving as a thought-provoking springboard to speculate how humanity could leverage technology for good.",
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},
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"pri-the-world": {
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"title": "PRI's The World: Latest Edition",
"info": "Each weekday, host Marco Werman and his team of producers bring you the world's most interesting stories in an hour of radio that reminds us just how small our planet really is.",
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"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-World-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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},
"radiolab": {
"id": "radiolab",
"title": "Radiolab",
"info": "A two-time Peabody Award-winner, Radiolab is an investigation told through sounds and stories, and centered around one big idea. In the Radiolab world, information sounds like music and science and culture collide. Hosted by Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich, the show is designed for listeners who demand skepticism, but appreciate wonder. WNYC Studios is the producer of other leading podcasts including Freakonomics Radio, Death, Sex & Money, On the Media and many more.",
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},
"reveal": {
"id": "reveal",
"title": "Reveal",
"info": "Created by The Center for Investigative Reporting and PRX, Reveal is public radios first one-hour weekly radio show and podcast dedicated to investigative reporting. Credible, fact based and without a partisan agenda, Reveal combines the power and artistry of driveway moment storytelling with data-rich reporting on critically important issues. The result is stories that inform and inspire, arming our listeners with information to right injustices, hold the powerful accountable and improve lives.Reveal is hosted by Al Letson and showcases the award-winning work of CIR and newsrooms large and small across the nation. In a radio and podcast market crowded with choices, Reveal focuses on important and often surprising stories that illuminate the world for our listeners.",
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