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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Richard Oakes was the face of the burgeoning “Red Power” movement when he led the famous Native occupation of Alcatraz Island in 1969. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But like other civil rights leaders at the time, he died too soon. In 1972, Oakes was gunned down in rural Sonoma County. His killer, Michael Oliver Morgan, stood trial for manslaughter and was found not guilty.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The official story of Richard Oakes’ death, and the circumstances surrounding Morgan’s trial, are part of the reason why Oakes’ legacy has been largely erased from mainstream history. Oakes’ family and friends, meanwhile, never got closure. \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All this time, they have believed that Oakes’ death, and Morgan’s acquittal, were racially motivated. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, thanks to new reporting from the \u003cem>San Francisco Chronicle\u003c/em>, we know details about this story that have been kept secret for decades. In Part 1 of a two-part episode with reporters\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Julie Johnson and Jason Fagone, we discuss the events that led Oakes to rural Sonoma County, and the encounters that foreshadowed his killing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is Part 1 of a two-part episode. Part 2 will publish on Wednesday, Oct. 11.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7483756438\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Read\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2023/richard-oakes-killing/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> the full story \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">on Richard Oakes’ death in the \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">San Francisco Chronicle\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to the Bay; Local news to keep you rooted. Richard Oakes is one of the most important figures of the Native Civil Rights movement. In 1969, he led the famous occupation of Alcatraz Island, where he brought attention to living conditions on the reservation and pushed for Native people’s right to self-determination.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Eloy Martinez: \u003c/strong>Richard was a visionary. He would see beyond just now. I believe any strong leader this leader is right up there with all of the best of them, some of the great black leaders in the civil rights movement. Alcatraz was the civil rights movement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Oakes’ actions on Alcatraz would eventually bring the Red Power movement to the mainland. But like other civil rights leaders of the time, he died too soon. Oakes was gunned down in 1972 in rural Sonoma County. His killer, Michael Oliver Morgan, stood trial for manslaughter but was found not guilty. That was 50 years ago. The official story of Richard Oakes, His death and the not guilty verdict for the man who shot him are part of the reason why his legacy has been erased from mainstream history. Oakes His family, meanwhile, has never gotten closure all this time. They’ve never doubted that Oakes, his death and Morgan’s acquittal were racially motivated. But thanks to new reporting from the San Francisco Chronicle, we now know details about this story that have been kept secret for decades.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>The story that came out of the trial was not a big story about a moral cause. It was a story of two men getting in an argument on a road in the middle of nowhere. That story is the wrong story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Today, Part one of my conversation with San Francisco Chronicle reporters Jason Fagone and Julie Johnson about the true story of Richard Oakes, his death, and why it went untold until now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>Richard was one of the most prominent and effective Native American activists of that era.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Richard Oakes: \u003c/strong>I think it’s about time this government starts recognizing that we young people like to take over our own destiny.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>He had a national profile, even an international profile, because of the Alcatraz occupation, which he started in 1969.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reporter: \u003c/strong>Do you think you have the legal right to claim the island and why?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Richard Oakes: \u003c/strong>Well, you’re talking about two different societies now. In my society or in Indian society, yes, we do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>It became this, you know, 19 month occupation. Huge global news story. I mean, Marlon Brando went to the islands, Jane Fonda, all kinds of tribal elders came to meet him, to talk to him, just to hear what he had to say.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Richard Oakes: \u003c/strong>We hope to build an example at our Mecca.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>And he inspired a whole generation of young native people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Richard Oakes: \u003c/strong>We will purchase, said Alcatraz Island for $24 in glass beads and red cloth, a precedent set by the white man’s purchase of a similar island about 300 years ago. Our offer of 20 a dollar and $0.24 per acre is greater than the $0.47 per acre The white man is now paying to California Indians for their land.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>Because he was channeling and expressing, you know, native anger about a range of issues, you know, mainly mistreatment by the US government, poor conditions on reservations, forced assimilation into a white society that really had no place for native people. But he is also laying out this vision for a better world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Richard Oakes: \u003c/strong>Therefore, we plan to develop on this island several Indian institutes in the name of all Indians. Therefore, we reclaim this land for our Indian nations. For all these reasons, we feel this claim is just and proper, and that this land should rightfully be granted to us for as long as the river shall run in the sunshine. Sign Indians of All Tribes. November, 1969, San Francisco, California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>And he also just had this incredible kind of charisma like this, which has volcanic personal charisma. People, people, people followed him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reporter: \u003c/strong>Why Alcatraz?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Richard Oakes: \u003c/strong>Everybody can see it. At one end of the country, you have the Statue of Liberty. And this is it’s just the opposite. We have a true reality of liberty.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>He was essentially like the face of the red power movement. Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>He was the leader of a national movement. Red Power was something that grew out of the Alcatraz occupation. You know, it wasn’t just a one off thing, Richard. After Alcatraz, he he sort of took the spark of that demonstration in that protest and and brought it to the mainland and then set up the string of sort of very similar demonstrations all across the West Coast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>This story takes place in rural Sonoma County in the 1970s. Julie How does someone like Richard Oaks end up in Sonoma County in 1972?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Julie Johnson: \u003c/strong>Richard’s wife Annie was from Sonoma County. She grew up there. She grew up on the Stuarts Point Ranch area, home of the Cassia Band of Pomo Indians. Near the Sonoma County coastline, it was actually two traumatic incidents that led them back to Sonoma County. The first was the death of their daughter, Yvonne. She was 13 years old and she fell off a ledge while playing on Alcatraz. This was during the occupation. She was rushed to the hospital, but she died. And Richard and Annie didn’t return. The occupation was still going on, but they were grieving and they just didn’t go back to the island. But Richard was still involved in activism. He was traveling all around the state of California, participating in demonstrations related to land rights.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Richard Oakes: \u003c/strong>With the river tribe of Indians of California, in accordance with the findings of the Indian Claims Commission that established the various findings, our territory and what is now called Shasta Modoc, Lassen and Siskiyou Counties land that was illegally taken from us in the year of 1853. Reject all monies offered to us for this land and instead will retain our land within these established findings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Julie Johnson: \u003c/strong>He had developed this really interesting and kind of effective strategy to trespass on corporate or government lands that were in fact traditional indigenous lands, and they would get arrested and mass forced police to arrest dozens of people. Then they’d end up in court and the government would have to argue that Native American people were trespassing on their own traditional lands. And it was wonderfully ironic and got a lot of media attention. And in 1974, Richard and a group of others went to P.G. and his headquarters in downtown San Francisco. This is on Market Street to make a citizen’s arrest of the CEO And Peggy and he owns a lot of land in California, including many traditional indigenous lands.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Julie Johnson: \u003c/strong>So they did like this staged citizen’s arrest. Security kicked him out. They held a press conference deemed a success. Afterwards, they went to a bar to celebrate and a man snuck up behind Richard and attacked him with a pool cue. And he ended up in a coma and suffered permanent impacts. Once he awoke, he had to relearn how to talk. He had to relearn how to walk. And he never really was the same. So it was in that context that Annie, I think, insisted that they move back home to her family, this quiet place, very familiar, very remote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So, Richard, in any move to this quieter, more rural part of the Bay Area and in large part because they’ve really experienced, I mean, some of the consequences of being the face of a movement, the dangers of that. But Richard doesn’t retreat from his activism once he moves to Sonoma County, does he?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Julie Johnson: \u003c/strong>So in Sonoma County, he was involved in a number of smaller demonstrations, but one in particular caught the attention of Sonoma County. The county wanted to widen the road. Skaggs Springs Road that went through the Stuarts Point range area. To this day, it’s the only road between the Dry Creek Valley and the Snowman Coast. And so the county carved away about three acres of tribal lands to do it. And, you know, mind you, that tribe had about 40 acres. So that was significant. And Richard saw this as theft. So he had a group of men and adolescents pulled a branch across the road one day, painted a sign and started charging drivers a dollar to pass. You know, this is a rural road. It’s in the middle of nowhere. I think eight drivers passed. But in the paper the next day, he was called a militant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I know someone who becomes aware of Oakes. His presence in Sonoma County. Is a man named Michael Oliver. Morgan Jason. Who is Michael Oliver Morgan. And how would you describe him?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>Michael Morgan was a fairly typical local white guy of that era and that place in Sonoma. I read out of high school he joined the Army and he served for a couple of years as a military policeman. He was essentially a cop for the army there. Around 1970, he was hired by the Berkeley YMCA, which operated this kind of remote wilderness camp that they mainly used as a summer camp for Bay Area kids up in the Redwood Country in Sonoma. And because it was so far away from Berkeley, the Berkeley, why needed a local person to sort of look after it and keep the boiler running and take care of the horses that they had there and fix pipes and that kind of thing. And Morgan was good at those kinds of tasks. And so they hired him there as the caretaker to look after it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Richard in any live in the Stuart’s point, Rancheria, where is it located and what was the relationship between the camp where Michael Morgan worked and the ranch area?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Julie Johnson: \u003c/strong>So the Stewarts Point Rancheria is about four miles down the road from the camp closer to the coast to about 40 acres. And to compare, the YMCA camp had about 450 acres of beautiful, pristine forest alongside a lovely creek. And the Rancheria, in contrast, didn’t have access to fresh water, so they had to truck it in, actually. And they still do to this day. And I think for a long time there was somewhat of an understanding between the caretakers of the YMCA camp and the people who lived in the Rancheria Canteen was a really important source of food and also just recreation for people living in the ranch area. And I think they were able to kind of traverse on camp lands. And this is this is a wild forest. So, you know, the boundaries are somewhat unclear, but I think they were able to move pretty freely. And our understanding is that once Morgan became the caretaker, that he was just more firm with those boundaries and he didn’t want people trespassing on camp land.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>The thing about Morgan is that he was different from other caretakers who had looked after the camp before him. He came in and he he basically viewed everything there is as private property, totally off limits to the shire. And he was willing to enforce that belief with firearms. He kept a lot of guns there. Guns were common in some in that area and I think they still are shotguns, hunting rifles and that kind of thing. He had guns that were not those kinds of guns. He had handguns. He had semi-auto automatic pistols. That wasn’t the kind of thing that had been at the camp before.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Coming up, Michael Morgan and Richard Oakes’ first encounter and how it sets the stage for the violence to come. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Jason, Michael Morgan would eventually shoot and kill Richard Oakes on September 20th, 1972, but they’d actually met days before that. As I understand it, it wasn’t a very friendly encounter. How does that first encounter between Michael Morgan and Richard Oakes sort of foreshadow what is to come?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>So six days before the killing, September 14th, 1972, Morgan and his employees at the camp there, they’re at the camp one afternoon, and this 15 year old, a native kid, comes walking down the road. His name is Billy Lazor. He was a mohawk. He had known Richard, Richard and Stanley for a while. He was visiting from the East Coast, from Mohawk territory. And this kid comes walking, walking down the road and Morgan and some boys ask to be still in there. And he doesn’t say. He just says this is Indian land. And any Indian has a right to be here and hunt here. It turns out the kid had been looking for his friends who had gone hunting earlier in the day, thought they might be around there. But Morgan and his camp employees interpreted this says, as some kind of reticence or hostility.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>They get into this argument about whether that’s Indian land or not. Pretty soon after that, Richard Oakes pulls up in a car. He’s been out looking for the missing boys, too. He sees this argument happening. He pulls over to see what’s going on. He joins the argument. The argument keeps getting more and more heated. And there are kind of two versions of what happened next. In Morgan’s version, the kid takes out a hunting knife. Richard grabs the knife. Morgan sees him grab the knife. He’s afraid for his safety. He asks Richard to leave. Richard refuses. And so at that point, Morgan picks up a rifle and fires a warning shot at Richard right above his head, booms out. And and then Richard says he’s going to come back and burn down the camp. And then at that point, you hear the kid leave.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>That’s what Morgan says happened, according to the kid’s version, which he later gave in court and which we think is more credible. What really happened is that Morgan is the one who escalated this argument in this conflict. It was Morgan who started to be hostile to sort of make threatening gestures, say threatening things called Richard Oakes a stupid Indian, according to the kid. And it was Morgan who fired the shot. And it’s only after he fires that the kid takes out the knives because the kid is afraid because now he feels like he’s he’s being attacked. At that point, Richard takes the knife from the kid because he’s trying to de-escalate. He doesn’t want anybody to do anything rash.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What evidence is there to show that the latter account from Billy Lazarus is perhaps more credible?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>The FBI ultimately investigated the circumstances of the killing, and they talked to some of Morgan’s own people who were there that night, his own employees, and they took these witness statements. The witness statements are very detailed. And in the witness statements, there are a couple of Morgan’s own people, in other words, people on Morgan’s side who corroborated some of the most important elements of the kids believe the source story. So that’s why we think it’s more credible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Julie, why was this first encounter and in what you would eventually learn about it from some of these FBI documents, why is it important to note and to document.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Julie Johnson: \u003c/strong>This first encounter really set the stage for what would happen next? And not only did Michael Morgan fire a warning shot over Richard’s head, but right after that, a sheriff’s deputy came to the scene. Richard and Billy had left. A sheriff’s deputy turns up because somebody at the camp had called and they had this conversation. And Jason was really instrumental in getting these FBI files and getting them unredacted, which was really important to understanding who said what and how. All of this, like, really changes the way you can look at the shooting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>To me, this is one of the most crucial parts of the story and one of the most important things that we discovered. And it took about a year through the FOI process even to find out where these documents were and to go and to get them unredacted. Because what we found is that the police themselves escalated this conflict. And there’s even evidence that they conspired with Morgan to contemplate the death of Richard Knox and kind of create a space to give a kind of permission that made violence against Richard possible. Because remember, this is six days before the killing. So six days before the killing, the warning shot happens and someone calls the police and then this deputy sheriff shows up, David Craver, who went by the nickname Mike.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>And by this point, Richard and Kate have left. It’s just Morgan, his friend. And there’s this white deputy sheriff. And the deputy sheriff is talking to Morgan about what just happened. And Maureen tells them, in the end, the cop says to Morgan, well, why didn’t you just shoot him when you had the chance? I would have shot him when he picked up the knife. After that, this cop said some blatantly racist stuff about Native people. He bragged that he wasn’t afraid of Indians. He said that he kept an M-16 rifle in the trunk of his cop car and that this rifle just loves to eat up Indians. And he said all this stuff in the presence of Morgan, who six days later shoots and kills Richard Oakes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>So the story of this first incident. Sonoma County police were involved in the conflict in a really fundamental way, but they injected themselves into it, escalated it, and seemed to goad Michael Morgan into violence. Six days later, Morgan shoots and kills Richard Oakes. Maybe it’s not surprising to listeners that a rural cop in the early 1970s would be racist. But to me, this really is shocking because of the specifics and because this information was not available to the public at the time. The story that came out of the trial was not a big story about a moral cause. It was a story of two men getting in an argument on a road in the middle of nowhere and something happening. That story is the wrong story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was San Francisco Chronicle reporters Julie Johnson and Jason Fagone. This is part one of a two part episode on the killing of Richard OakEs. On Wednesday, we’ll hear more from Julie and Jason about the trial of Michael Morgan, how he was found not guilty and the impact the trial still has today. You can read Julie and Jason’s full story for The Chronicle on the true story of Richard Oakes’s death. We’ll leave you a link to that in our shownotes. This conversation was cut down and edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. Producer Maria Esquinca scored this episode and added all the tape with extra production support from me. Special thanks to San Francisco Chronicle staff photojournalist Brontë Wittpenn. At the top of this episode, you heard from Eloy Martinez, a friend of Richard Oakes. Music courtesy of the Audio Network. Archival footage from the Bay Area Television Archive. The Bay is a production of member supported KQED. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Thanks for listening. Talk to you Wednesday.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Richard Oakes was the face of the burgeoning “Red Power” movement when he led the famous Native occupation of Alcatraz Island in 1969. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But like other civil rights leaders at the time, he died too soon. In 1972, Oakes was gunned down in rural Sonoma County. His killer, Michael Oliver Morgan, stood trial for manslaughter and was found not guilty.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The official story of Richard Oakes’ death, and the circumstances surrounding Morgan’s trial, are part of the reason why Oakes’ legacy has been largely erased from mainstream history. Oakes’ family and friends, meanwhile, never got closure. \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All this time, they have believed that Oakes’ death, and Morgan’s acquittal, were racially motivated. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, thanks to new reporting from the \u003cem>San Francisco Chronicle\u003c/em>, we know details about this story that have been kept secret for decades. In Part 1 of a two-part episode with reporters\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> Julie Johnson and Jason Fagone, we discuss the events that led Oakes to rural Sonoma County, and the encounters that foreshadowed his killing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>This is Part 1 of a two-part episode. Part 2 will publish on Wednesday, Oct. 11.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7483756438\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Read\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2023/richard-oakes-killing/\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> the full story \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">on Richard Oakes’ death in the \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">San Francisco Chronicle\u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to the Bay; Local news to keep you rooted. Richard Oakes is one of the most important figures of the Native Civil Rights movement. In 1969, he led the famous occupation of Alcatraz Island, where he brought attention to living conditions on the reservation and pushed for Native people’s right to self-determination.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Eloy Martinez: \u003c/strong>Richard was a visionary. He would see beyond just now. I believe any strong leader this leader is right up there with all of the best of them, some of the great black leaders in the civil rights movement. Alcatraz was the civil rights movement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Oakes’ actions on Alcatraz would eventually bring the Red Power movement to the mainland. But like other civil rights leaders of the time, he died too soon. Oakes was gunned down in 1972 in rural Sonoma County. His killer, Michael Oliver Morgan, stood trial for manslaughter but was found not guilty. That was 50 years ago. The official story of Richard Oakes, His death and the not guilty verdict for the man who shot him are part of the reason why his legacy has been erased from mainstream history. Oakes His family, meanwhile, has never gotten closure all this time. They’ve never doubted that Oakes, his death and Morgan’s acquittal were racially motivated. But thanks to new reporting from the San Francisco Chronicle, we now know details about this story that have been kept secret for decades.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>The story that came out of the trial was not a big story about a moral cause. It was a story of two men getting in an argument on a road in the middle of nowhere. That story is the wrong story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Today, Part one of my conversation with San Francisco Chronicle reporters Jason Fagone and Julie Johnson about the true story of Richard Oakes, his death, and why it went untold until now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>Richard was one of the most prominent and effective Native American activists of that era.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Richard Oakes: \u003c/strong>I think it’s about time this government starts recognizing that we young people like to take over our own destiny.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>He had a national profile, even an international profile, because of the Alcatraz occupation, which he started in 1969.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reporter: \u003c/strong>Do you think you have the legal right to claim the island and why?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Richard Oakes: \u003c/strong>Well, you’re talking about two different societies now. In my society or in Indian society, yes, we do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>It became this, you know, 19 month occupation. Huge global news story. I mean, Marlon Brando went to the islands, Jane Fonda, all kinds of tribal elders came to meet him, to talk to him, just to hear what he had to say.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Richard Oakes: \u003c/strong>We hope to build an example at our Mecca.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>And he inspired a whole generation of young native people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Richard Oakes: \u003c/strong>We will purchase, said Alcatraz Island for $24 in glass beads and red cloth, a precedent set by the white man’s purchase of a similar island about 300 years ago. Our offer of 20 a dollar and $0.24 per acre is greater than the $0.47 per acre The white man is now paying to California Indians for their land.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>Because he was channeling and expressing, you know, native anger about a range of issues, you know, mainly mistreatment by the US government, poor conditions on reservations, forced assimilation into a white society that really had no place for native people. But he is also laying out this vision for a better world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Richard Oakes: \u003c/strong>Therefore, we plan to develop on this island several Indian institutes in the name of all Indians. Therefore, we reclaim this land for our Indian nations. For all these reasons, we feel this claim is just and proper, and that this land should rightfully be granted to us for as long as the river shall run in the sunshine. Sign Indians of All Tribes. November, 1969, San Francisco, California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>And he also just had this incredible kind of charisma like this, which has volcanic personal charisma. People, people, people followed him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Reporter: \u003c/strong>Why Alcatraz?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Richard Oakes: \u003c/strong>Everybody can see it. At one end of the country, you have the Statue of Liberty. And this is it’s just the opposite. We have a true reality of liberty.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>He was essentially like the face of the red power movement. Right.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>He was the leader of a national movement. Red Power was something that grew out of the Alcatraz occupation. You know, it wasn’t just a one off thing, Richard. After Alcatraz, he he sort of took the spark of that demonstration in that protest and and brought it to the mainland and then set up the string of sort of very similar demonstrations all across the West Coast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>This story takes place in rural Sonoma County in the 1970s. Julie How does someone like Richard Oaks end up in Sonoma County in 1972?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Julie Johnson: \u003c/strong>Richard’s wife Annie was from Sonoma County. She grew up there. She grew up on the Stuarts Point Ranch area, home of the Cassia Band of Pomo Indians. Near the Sonoma County coastline, it was actually two traumatic incidents that led them back to Sonoma County. The first was the death of their daughter, Yvonne. She was 13 years old and she fell off a ledge while playing on Alcatraz. This was during the occupation. She was rushed to the hospital, but she died. And Richard and Annie didn’t return. The occupation was still going on, but they were grieving and they just didn’t go back to the island. But Richard was still involved in activism. He was traveling all around the state of California, participating in demonstrations related to land rights.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Richard Oakes: \u003c/strong>With the river tribe of Indians of California, in accordance with the findings of the Indian Claims Commission that established the various findings, our territory and what is now called Shasta Modoc, Lassen and Siskiyou Counties land that was illegally taken from us in the year of 1853. Reject all monies offered to us for this land and instead will retain our land within these established findings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Julie Johnson: \u003c/strong>He had developed this really interesting and kind of effective strategy to trespass on corporate or government lands that were in fact traditional indigenous lands, and they would get arrested and mass forced police to arrest dozens of people. Then they’d end up in court and the government would have to argue that Native American people were trespassing on their own traditional lands. And it was wonderfully ironic and got a lot of media attention. And in 1974, Richard and a group of others went to P.G. and his headquarters in downtown San Francisco. This is on Market Street to make a citizen’s arrest of the CEO And Peggy and he owns a lot of land in California, including many traditional indigenous lands.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Julie Johnson: \u003c/strong>So they did like this staged citizen’s arrest. Security kicked him out. They held a press conference deemed a success. Afterwards, they went to a bar to celebrate and a man snuck up behind Richard and attacked him with a pool cue. And he ended up in a coma and suffered permanent impacts. Once he awoke, he had to relearn how to talk. He had to relearn how to walk. And he never really was the same. So it was in that context that Annie, I think, insisted that they move back home to her family, this quiet place, very familiar, very remote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So, Richard, in any move to this quieter, more rural part of the Bay Area and in large part because they’ve really experienced, I mean, some of the consequences of being the face of a movement, the dangers of that. But Richard doesn’t retreat from his activism once he moves to Sonoma County, does he?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Julie Johnson: \u003c/strong>So in Sonoma County, he was involved in a number of smaller demonstrations, but one in particular caught the attention of Sonoma County. The county wanted to widen the road. Skaggs Springs Road that went through the Stuarts Point range area. To this day, it’s the only road between the Dry Creek Valley and the Snowman Coast. And so the county carved away about three acres of tribal lands to do it. And, you know, mind you, that tribe had about 40 acres. So that was significant. And Richard saw this as theft. So he had a group of men and adolescents pulled a branch across the road one day, painted a sign and started charging drivers a dollar to pass. You know, this is a rural road. It’s in the middle of nowhere. I think eight drivers passed. But in the paper the next day, he was called a militant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I know someone who becomes aware of Oakes. His presence in Sonoma County. Is a man named Michael Oliver. Morgan Jason. Who is Michael Oliver Morgan. And how would you describe him?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>Michael Morgan was a fairly typical local white guy of that era and that place in Sonoma. I read out of high school he joined the Army and he served for a couple of years as a military policeman. He was essentially a cop for the army there. Around 1970, he was hired by the Berkeley YMCA, which operated this kind of remote wilderness camp that they mainly used as a summer camp for Bay Area kids up in the Redwood Country in Sonoma. And because it was so far away from Berkeley, the Berkeley, why needed a local person to sort of look after it and keep the boiler running and take care of the horses that they had there and fix pipes and that kind of thing. And Morgan was good at those kinds of tasks. And so they hired him there as the caretaker to look after it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Richard in any live in the Stuart’s point, Rancheria, where is it located and what was the relationship between the camp where Michael Morgan worked and the ranch area?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Julie Johnson: \u003c/strong>So the Stewarts Point Rancheria is about four miles down the road from the camp closer to the coast to about 40 acres. And to compare, the YMCA camp had about 450 acres of beautiful, pristine forest alongside a lovely creek. And the Rancheria, in contrast, didn’t have access to fresh water, so they had to truck it in, actually. And they still do to this day. And I think for a long time there was somewhat of an understanding between the caretakers of the YMCA camp and the people who lived in the Rancheria Canteen was a really important source of food and also just recreation for people living in the ranch area. And I think they were able to kind of traverse on camp lands. And this is this is a wild forest. So, you know, the boundaries are somewhat unclear, but I think they were able to move pretty freely. And our understanding is that once Morgan became the caretaker, that he was just more firm with those boundaries and he didn’t want people trespassing on camp land.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>The thing about Morgan is that he was different from other caretakers who had looked after the camp before him. He came in and he he basically viewed everything there is as private property, totally off limits to the shire. And he was willing to enforce that belief with firearms. He kept a lot of guns there. Guns were common in some in that area and I think they still are shotguns, hunting rifles and that kind of thing. He had guns that were not those kinds of guns. He had handguns. He had semi-auto automatic pistols. That wasn’t the kind of thing that had been at the camp before.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Coming up, Michael Morgan and Richard Oakes’ first encounter and how it sets the stage for the violence to come. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Jason, Michael Morgan would eventually shoot and kill Richard Oakes on September 20th, 1972, but they’d actually met days before that. As I understand it, it wasn’t a very friendly encounter. How does that first encounter between Michael Morgan and Richard Oakes sort of foreshadow what is to come?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>So six days before the killing, September 14th, 1972, Morgan and his employees at the camp there, they’re at the camp one afternoon, and this 15 year old, a native kid, comes walking down the road. His name is Billy Lazor. He was a mohawk. He had known Richard, Richard and Stanley for a while. He was visiting from the East Coast, from Mohawk territory. And this kid comes walking, walking down the road and Morgan and some boys ask to be still in there. And he doesn’t say. He just says this is Indian land. And any Indian has a right to be here and hunt here. It turns out the kid had been looking for his friends who had gone hunting earlier in the day, thought they might be around there. But Morgan and his camp employees interpreted this says, as some kind of reticence or hostility.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>They get into this argument about whether that’s Indian land or not. Pretty soon after that, Richard Oakes pulls up in a car. He’s been out looking for the missing boys, too. He sees this argument happening. He pulls over to see what’s going on. He joins the argument. The argument keeps getting more and more heated. And there are kind of two versions of what happened next. In Morgan’s version, the kid takes out a hunting knife. Richard grabs the knife. Morgan sees him grab the knife. He’s afraid for his safety. He asks Richard to leave. Richard refuses. And so at that point, Morgan picks up a rifle and fires a warning shot at Richard right above his head, booms out. And and then Richard says he’s going to come back and burn down the camp. And then at that point, you hear the kid leave.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>That’s what Morgan says happened, according to the kid’s version, which he later gave in court and which we think is more credible. What really happened is that Morgan is the one who escalated this argument in this conflict. It was Morgan who started to be hostile to sort of make threatening gestures, say threatening things called Richard Oakes a stupid Indian, according to the kid. And it was Morgan who fired the shot. And it’s only after he fires that the kid takes out the knives because the kid is afraid because now he feels like he’s he’s being attacked. At that point, Richard takes the knife from the kid because he’s trying to de-escalate. He doesn’t want anybody to do anything rash.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What evidence is there to show that the latter account from Billy Lazarus is perhaps more credible?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>The FBI ultimately investigated the circumstances of the killing, and they talked to some of Morgan’s own people who were there that night, his own employees, and they took these witness statements. The witness statements are very detailed. And in the witness statements, there are a couple of Morgan’s own people, in other words, people on Morgan’s side who corroborated some of the most important elements of the kids believe the source story. So that’s why we think it’s more credible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Julie, why was this first encounter and in what you would eventually learn about it from some of these FBI documents, why is it important to note and to document.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Julie Johnson: \u003c/strong>This first encounter really set the stage for what would happen next? And not only did Michael Morgan fire a warning shot over Richard’s head, but right after that, a sheriff’s deputy came to the scene. Richard and Billy had left. A sheriff’s deputy turns up because somebody at the camp had called and they had this conversation. And Jason was really instrumental in getting these FBI files and getting them unredacted, which was really important to understanding who said what and how. All of this, like, really changes the way you can look at the shooting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>To me, this is one of the most crucial parts of the story and one of the most important things that we discovered. And it took about a year through the FOI process even to find out where these documents were and to go and to get them unredacted. Because what we found is that the police themselves escalated this conflict. And there’s even evidence that they conspired with Morgan to contemplate the death of Richard Knox and kind of create a space to give a kind of permission that made violence against Richard possible. Because remember, this is six days before the killing. So six days before the killing, the warning shot happens and someone calls the police and then this deputy sheriff shows up, David Craver, who went by the nickname Mike.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>And by this point, Richard and Kate have left. It’s just Morgan, his friend. And there’s this white deputy sheriff. And the deputy sheriff is talking to Morgan about what just happened. And Maureen tells them, in the end, the cop says to Morgan, well, why didn’t you just shoot him when you had the chance? I would have shot him when he picked up the knife. After that, this cop said some blatantly racist stuff about Native people. He bragged that he wasn’t afraid of Indians. He said that he kept an M-16 rifle in the trunk of his cop car and that this rifle just loves to eat up Indians. And he said all this stuff in the presence of Morgan, who six days later shoots and kills Richard Oakes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Jason Fagone: \u003c/strong>So the story of this first incident. Sonoma County police were involved in the conflict in a really fundamental way, but they injected themselves into it, escalated it, and seemed to goad Michael Morgan into violence. Six days later, Morgan shoots and kills Richard Oakes. Maybe it’s not surprising to listeners that a rural cop in the early 1970s would be racist. But to me, this really is shocking because of the specifics and because this information was not available to the public at the time. The story that came out of the trial was not a big story about a moral cause. It was a story of two men getting in an argument on a road in the middle of nowhere and something happening. That story is the wrong story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was San Francisco Chronicle reporters Julie Johnson and Jason Fagone. This is part one of a two part episode on the killing of Richard OakEs. On Wednesday, we’ll hear more from Julie and Jason about the trial of Michael Morgan, how he was found not guilty and the impact the trial still has today. You can read Julie and Jason’s full story for The Chronicle on the true story of Richard Oakes’s death. We’ll leave you a link to that in our shownotes. This conversation was cut down and edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. Producer Maria Esquinca scored this episode and added all the tape with extra production support from me. Special thanks to San Francisco Chronicle staff photojournalist Brontë Wittpenn. At the top of this episode, you heard from Eloy Martinez, a friend of Richard Oakes. Music courtesy of the Audio Network. Archival footage from the Bay Area Television Archive. The Bay is a production of member supported KQED. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Thanks for listening. Talk to you Wednesday.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"title": "More Than 22,000 Bay Area Kaiser Permanente Workers Are On Strike",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">From San José to Santa Rosa, more than 22,000 Bay Area Kaiser Permanente health care workers walked off the job Wednesday for a three-day strike, demanding better wages to help fix what they say is an urgent understaffing crisis. The effort spans 8 states and the District of Columbia, and some are calling it the largest health care strike in US history.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC3882688016\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. 75,000 Kaiser Permanente health care workers are on strike across eight states and Washington, D.C., and many of them are right here in the Bay Area. From San Jose to Santa Rosa, workers walked off the job on Wednesday for a three-day strike demanding better wages to help fix what they say is an urgent understaffing crisis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Drenda Sims: \u003c/strong>We have employees sleeping in their cars because they cannot afford the cost of living. And we need a raise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Today, my colleague and labor correspondent Farida Jhabvala Romero, joins us to talk about what health care workers want and how the strike is impacting patients. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Farida, we’re talking on Thursday morning in the middle of what I’m hearing is the largest health care worker strike in U.S. history. How big are we talking here?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Yeah, we’re talking about tens of thousands of workers. About 68,000 workers in California. That includes more than 22,000 employees in the Bay Area. We’re talking about people who work in labs, radiology technicians, receptionist, medical assistance, people that work in the operating room. These are really the folks that make Kaiser Services run. Kaiser, you know, has become a really large health care provider. They serve nearly 13 million people across the country, most of them in California. So we’re talking about a really big organization that is nonprofit in large part. But we’re also seeing the same, you know, tensions for the workforce here that was absolutely, you know, brought to the forefront because of the pandemic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I think we all know health care workers have really been through so much during the pandemic. So what are the concerns and issues being raised by these workers?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>These workers want Kaiser to invest in higher wages across the board so that they can deal with the higher cost of living, especially in markets like the Bay Area. And they also want Kaiser to make investments to increase the minimum wage for workers across the board to be able to attract more people that can help address this understaffing problem that you hear employees talking about all the time. Since that pandemic, there’s been an exodus of millions of workers in the health care industry. Employees at Kaiser feel that because it’s an organization that is mostly nonprofit, they have a higher responsibility to invest more in their employees. Often, you know, when I spoken with Kaiser Health Care Workers, they feel underappreciated. People tell me, Hey, I risked my life during the pandemic to come to the hospital. I just want to be paid a little more than a 3% wage increase.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Michael Jones: \u003c/strong>I’ve caught Covid twice, and I still work for Kaiser. You know, I put my life at risk. You know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Michael Jones and every other employee who I spoke with at the picket lines had two main messages. They say they’re calling for fair wages and they say they’re calling for Kaiser to really increase the number of people employed by the organization in health care services so that they can take better care of their patients.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Michael Jones: \u003c/strong>For Kaiser to say that they can find somebody, to find other workers that don’t care for other workers that are better and cheaper. That’s a slap in the face. We’re not going anywhere. So you need to train people, right, and give them their justice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Sometimes I think something that comes through a lot when you speak with health care workers is they’re really passionate about their jobs. You know, they feel like it’s really a calling.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Michael Jones: \u003c/strong>You know, But my ultimate goal is to help those who are underprivileged and those who need the help. And that’s why I work in health care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>So it’s not just about their economic well-being, but also you hear it in the same breath, you know, almost like I want my patients to be okay. I don’t want them to be waiting, you know, while they’re in pain. And so I think they’re really wanting Kaiser as an organization to invest a lot more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Before they went on strike, the coalition of Kaiser Permanente unions demanded a 7% pay increase per year for two years, followed by a 6.25% annual increase for two years after that. Kaiser’s initial offer was more like 3% per year. Unions also wanted a minimum wage of $25 an hour in California. So far, Kaiser has offered $23 an hour at the negotiating table. Workers who are on strike say both of these demands will help to address the understaffing crisis they’ve been facing. Frieda, what has Kaiser said in response to all of this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Yes, we’ve asked Kaiser several times for an interview. We have not been able to speak with anyone, but they have issued several statements. One of the main points that they have is that they offer competitive wages and of the markets where they operate. They say they’re really like market leading. And they’ve said things like, you know, if workers were to leave Kaiser, they would actually be taking a pick up if they go work somewhere else. The other thing they say is that they have a lower attrition rate, so turnover than other, you know, companies in health care. They say that they’re very committed to taking care of their employees, but they also need to make sure that care remains affordable for the millions of people that Kaiser serves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>So we’re talking about a lot of health care costs that Kaiser has to, you know, factor in and make the kind of investments that the unions are asking for. I do have to say, though, they have been making profits for several years in recent years, except for one. One year, I think it was last year. They are trying to invest more in properties that are growing. You know, we see Kaiser being advertised at Chase Center and other places around the Bay Area. Executive compensation, millions of dollars, you know, for several people and their executive team. And that’s the base salary. So I think workers who are striking see all that and they say, hey, I think Kaiser seems to be doing well and we want to be able to get a little bit more for ourselves so that we can continue working and in health care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, I’m sure listeners are also wondering how this strike is going to impact them. I’m definitely one of those people. Have people seen any disruptions so far to the care that they there they go to Kaiser for.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Emergency operations, their emergency departments, their hospitals, Those kinds of services are continuing to operate. They brought in thousands of contract workers, but their physicians, their doctors are not part of this strike. So doctors are still working and they have some staffers. The overwhelming majority of people in the union voted to authorize the strike. But, you know, some staffers decided to keep working. But if you’re looking for pharmacy services, maybe radiology, going to see the optometrist, all of those services may be closed or working with reduced hours. And some of those locations is what Kaiser said. The other thing that Kaiser started doing as rescheduling what they consider non-emergency surgeries.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laveida Spence: \u003c/strong>My name is Laveida Spence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Laveida is a 78 year old lady who I met crossing the street in Oakland, going from the Oakland Medical Center, where hundreds of workers were crowding the sidewalks. You know, there was music, cars honking, all of this activity. And then I met her on the way to another facility because they moved their COVID and flu vaccination clinic out of the Oakland Medical Center to a nearby building.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laveida Spence: \u003c/strong>So I got there and they told me I had to come to the Fabiola building. I met her all day, as you can tell from my breathing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>She has issues with her lower back trouble walking. And here she was huffing and puffing, you know, trying to get to her COVID vaccine somewhere else. And she said she got the wrong information from the app. And so she just wanted Kaiser to, you know, be able to update members and where to go when they need services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laveida Spence: \u003c/strong>And I wouldn’t mind coming, but you should get your app straight and have the right information for people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>She seemed to be, you know, one of the people in the camp where they say they they understand the reasons for the strike. They seem to be generally supportive of the health care workers, but they don’t want it to go very much longer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laveida Spence: \u003c/strong>Well, I understand the reasons for the strike and I’m in agreement with it. And as long as Kaiser can provide medical care for people that need it and emergency care, then I’m fine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>What has been announced by the union is just a three day strike in California. But people are saying, hey, it could go longer. And if it does, then we’re going to see a lot more disruptions and delays to health care services for so many people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Frida, we’ve talked a lot about almost strikes and strikes lately. And this isn’t the first time that Kaiser workers have gone on strike. But what do you think this says about how health care workers are feeling right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>I mean, I think this is something shared by people working in many different industries. But definitely there’s a huge concern that wages are not keeping up with the cost of living. Now, like we were saying, in health care, it’s exacerbated even more by the feeling that, you know, workers felt like they were there, you know, when they were needed, when they had and we had this huge public health emergency. So I think the feeling for health care workers is they’ve made huge sacrifices and they deserve wage increases. They also feel like they’ve been falling behind. You know, the level of inflation are a lot more than what, you know, wages are increasing. So it’s it’s not keeping up. So those are those are basic things not only in health care, but in other industries. And one of the main reasons that we’re seeing so many strikes or threats to strike across across industries.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well Farida thank you so much. I appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Appreciate it. Thank you, Erica.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Farida Jhabvala Romero, a labor correspondent for KQED. This 26 minute conversation with Farida was cut down and edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. Producer Maria Esquinca scored this episode and added all the tape. Music courtesy of Audio Network. Shout out as well to the rest of the podcast squad here at KQED. That’s Jen Chien, director of podcasts. Katie Sprenger, our podcast operations manager. We get audience engagement support from Cesar Saldana, and Holly Kernan is our chief content officer. And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Thank you for listening to the Bay, where production of members supported KQED.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">From San José to Santa Rosa, more than 22,000 Bay Area Kaiser Permanente health care workers walked off the job Wednesday for a three-day strike, demanding better wages to help fix what they say is an urgent understaffing crisis. The effort spans 8 states and the District of Columbia, and some are calling it the largest health care strike in US history.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC3882688016\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. 75,000 Kaiser Permanente health care workers are on strike across eight states and Washington, D.C., and many of them are right here in the Bay Area. From San Jose to Santa Rosa, workers walked off the job on Wednesday for a three-day strike demanding better wages to help fix what they say is an urgent understaffing crisis.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Drenda Sims: \u003c/strong>We have employees sleeping in their cars because they cannot afford the cost of living. And we need a raise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Today, my colleague and labor correspondent Farida Jhabvala Romero, joins us to talk about what health care workers want and how the strike is impacting patients. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Farida, we’re talking on Thursday morning in the middle of what I’m hearing is the largest health care worker strike in U.S. history. How big are we talking here?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Yeah, we’re talking about tens of thousands of workers. About 68,000 workers in California. That includes more than 22,000 employees in the Bay Area. We’re talking about people who work in labs, radiology technicians, receptionist, medical assistance, people that work in the operating room. These are really the folks that make Kaiser Services run. Kaiser, you know, has become a really large health care provider. They serve nearly 13 million people across the country, most of them in California. So we’re talking about a really big organization that is nonprofit in large part. But we’re also seeing the same, you know, tensions for the workforce here that was absolutely, you know, brought to the forefront because of the pandemic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I think we all know health care workers have really been through so much during the pandemic. So what are the concerns and issues being raised by these workers?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>These workers want Kaiser to invest in higher wages across the board so that they can deal with the higher cost of living, especially in markets like the Bay Area. And they also want Kaiser to make investments to increase the minimum wage for workers across the board to be able to attract more people that can help address this understaffing problem that you hear employees talking about all the time. Since that pandemic, there’s been an exodus of millions of workers in the health care industry. Employees at Kaiser feel that because it’s an organization that is mostly nonprofit, they have a higher responsibility to invest more in their employees. Often, you know, when I spoken with Kaiser Health Care Workers, they feel underappreciated. People tell me, Hey, I risked my life during the pandemic to come to the hospital. I just want to be paid a little more than a 3% wage increase.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Michael Jones: \u003c/strong>I’ve caught Covid twice, and I still work for Kaiser. You know, I put my life at risk. You know.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Michael Jones and every other employee who I spoke with at the picket lines had two main messages. They say they’re calling for fair wages and they say they’re calling for Kaiser to really increase the number of people employed by the organization in health care services so that they can take better care of their patients.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Michael Jones: \u003c/strong>For Kaiser to say that they can find somebody, to find other workers that don’t care for other workers that are better and cheaper. That’s a slap in the face. We’re not going anywhere. So you need to train people, right, and give them their justice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Sometimes I think something that comes through a lot when you speak with health care workers is they’re really passionate about their jobs. You know, they feel like it’s really a calling.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Michael Jones: \u003c/strong>You know, But my ultimate goal is to help those who are underprivileged and those who need the help. And that’s why I work in health care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>So it’s not just about their economic well-being, but also you hear it in the same breath, you know, almost like I want my patients to be okay. I don’t want them to be waiting, you know, while they’re in pain. And so I think they’re really wanting Kaiser as an organization to invest a lot more.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Before they went on strike, the coalition of Kaiser Permanente unions demanded a 7% pay increase per year for two years, followed by a 6.25% annual increase for two years after that. Kaiser’s initial offer was more like 3% per year. Unions also wanted a minimum wage of $25 an hour in California. So far, Kaiser has offered $23 an hour at the negotiating table. Workers who are on strike say both of these demands will help to address the understaffing crisis they’ve been facing. Frieda, what has Kaiser said in response to all of this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Yes, we’ve asked Kaiser several times for an interview. We have not been able to speak with anyone, but they have issued several statements. One of the main points that they have is that they offer competitive wages and of the markets where they operate. They say they’re really like market leading. And they’ve said things like, you know, if workers were to leave Kaiser, they would actually be taking a pick up if they go work somewhere else. The other thing they say is that they have a lower attrition rate, so turnover than other, you know, companies in health care. They say that they’re very committed to taking care of their employees, but they also need to make sure that care remains affordable for the millions of people that Kaiser serves.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>So we’re talking about a lot of health care costs that Kaiser has to, you know, factor in and make the kind of investments that the unions are asking for. I do have to say, though, they have been making profits for several years in recent years, except for one. One year, I think it was last year. They are trying to invest more in properties that are growing. You know, we see Kaiser being advertised at Chase Center and other places around the Bay Area. Executive compensation, millions of dollars, you know, for several people and their executive team. And that’s the base salary. So I think workers who are striking see all that and they say, hey, I think Kaiser seems to be doing well and we want to be able to get a little bit more for ourselves so that we can continue working and in health care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, I’m sure listeners are also wondering how this strike is going to impact them. I’m definitely one of those people. Have people seen any disruptions so far to the care that they there they go to Kaiser for.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Emergency operations, their emergency departments, their hospitals, Those kinds of services are continuing to operate. They brought in thousands of contract workers, but their physicians, their doctors are not part of this strike. So doctors are still working and they have some staffers. The overwhelming majority of people in the union voted to authorize the strike. But, you know, some staffers decided to keep working. But if you’re looking for pharmacy services, maybe radiology, going to see the optometrist, all of those services may be closed or working with reduced hours. And some of those locations is what Kaiser said. The other thing that Kaiser started doing as rescheduling what they consider non-emergency surgeries.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laveida Spence: \u003c/strong>My name is Laveida Spence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Laveida is a 78 year old lady who I met crossing the street in Oakland, going from the Oakland Medical Center, where hundreds of workers were crowding the sidewalks. You know, there was music, cars honking, all of this activity. And then I met her on the way to another facility because they moved their COVID and flu vaccination clinic out of the Oakland Medical Center to a nearby building.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laveida Spence: \u003c/strong>So I got there and they told me I had to come to the Fabiola building. I met her all day, as you can tell from my breathing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>She has issues with her lower back trouble walking. And here she was huffing and puffing, you know, trying to get to her COVID vaccine somewhere else. And she said she got the wrong information from the app. And so she just wanted Kaiser to, you know, be able to update members and where to go when they need services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laveida Spence: \u003c/strong>And I wouldn’t mind coming, but you should get your app straight and have the right information for people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>She seemed to be, you know, one of the people in the camp where they say they they understand the reasons for the strike. They seem to be generally supportive of the health care workers, but they don’t want it to go very much longer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Laveida Spence: \u003c/strong>Well, I understand the reasons for the strike and I’m in agreement with it. And as long as Kaiser can provide medical care for people that need it and emergency care, then I’m fine.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>What has been announced by the union is just a three day strike in California. But people are saying, hey, it could go longer. And if it does, then we’re going to see a lot more disruptions and delays to health care services for so many people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Frida, we’ve talked a lot about almost strikes and strikes lately. And this isn’t the first time that Kaiser workers have gone on strike. But what do you think this says about how health care workers are feeling right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>I mean, I think this is something shared by people working in many different industries. But definitely there’s a huge concern that wages are not keeping up with the cost of living. Now, like we were saying, in health care, it’s exacerbated even more by the feeling that, you know, workers felt like they were there, you know, when they were needed, when they had and we had this huge public health emergency. So I think the feeling for health care workers is they’ve made huge sacrifices and they deserve wage increases. They also feel like they’ve been falling behind. You know, the level of inflation are a lot more than what, you know, wages are increasing. So it’s it’s not keeping up. So those are those are basic things not only in health care, but in other industries. And one of the main reasons that we’re seeing so many strikes or threats to strike across across industries.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well Farida thank you so much. I appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Farida Jhabvala Romero: \u003c/strong>Appreciate it. Thank you, Erica.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Farida Jhabvala Romero, a labor correspondent for KQED. This 26 minute conversation with Farida was cut down and edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. Producer Maria Esquinca scored this episode and added all the tape. Music courtesy of Audio Network. Shout out as well to the rest of the podcast squad here at KQED. That’s Jen Chien, director of podcasts. Katie Sprenger, our podcast operations manager. We get audience engagement support from Cesar Saldana, and Holly Kernan is our chief content officer. And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Thank you for listening to the Bay, where production of members supported KQED.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"title": "Rightnowish's Pendarvis Harshaw on 'Hyphy Kids Got Trauma'",
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"headTitle": "Rightnowish’s Pendarvis Harshaw on ‘Hyphy Kids Got Trauma’ | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"c-message_kit__blocks c-message_kit__blocks--rich_text\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"c-message__message_blocks c-message__message_blocks--rich_text\" data-qa=\"message-text\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-block_kit_renderer\" data-qa=\"block-kit-renderer\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-block_kit_renderer__block_wrapper p-block_kit_renderer__block_wrapper--first\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-rich_text_block\" dir=\"auto\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-rich_text_section\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"c-message__reply_bar c-message_kit__thread_replies\" role=\"presentation\" data-qa=\"reply_bar\" data-stringify-ignore=\"true\">\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">2006 was the height of the hyphy movement — a time of exuberant, goofy, frenetic energy. But there was so much more going on beneath the surface.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Rightnowish host Pendarvis Harshaw would know — he was a budding journalist with a front-row seat to the culture. Today, he talks with us about his four-part series, “Hyphy Kids Got Trauma.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13934874/hyphy-kids-got-trauma\">Hyphy Kids Got Trauma: A Rightnowish Podcast Series\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC1856160776&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Hey, just a quick heads up. This episode contains explicit language. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. 2006 was a big year in the Bay Area. It was the year of white tees and Stunna shades when Too Short dropped “Blow the Whistle” and E-40 released my ghetto report card with the hit, “Tell Me When to Go.” It was the height of the hyphy movement, but there was so much more going on. Oakland was having a bad year with gun violence, overpolicing, and the onset of gentrification loomed. And this is all where my colleague and Rightnowish host Pendarvis Harshaw, starts his newest series, Hyphy Kids Got Trauma.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>2006, I leave Oakland and go to Washington, D.C., and I start to see how people view the Bay Area from the outside. And I’m like, Oh, you. I think it’s all fun and games I think is goofy. No, this hyperactive energy actually comes from really a void in a lot of ways.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah. I’ve never thought of the words hyphy and trauma in the same sentence, but Pen would know. He was a budding journalist with a front row seat to the movement in 2006. And today, we talk with him about the sounds and scars of the time and explore the hyphy movement as you’ve never heard before. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Pen, this series of yours, Hyphy Kids Got Trauma takes place in 2006, the height of the hyphy movement. Can I tell you where I was in 2006 and during the hyphy movement?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>Please bring me into your world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So I was, I’m going to date myself, 11 years old, going to middle school in Sassoon City, California. I was on MySpace even though my parents didn’t want me to have a MySpace. Definitely had a pair of stunner shades. I would say I probably was experiencing the hyphy movement really on the radio and online, like on the drives that my family would take every week to Vallejo to go visit our family out there. Be Wild 94 nine. When I was at Cameo Camille listening to the hyphy music in that way, and then on people’s MySpace pages. So that’s where I was.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>This is made for you. This is made for the kid who who was there but wasn’t fully there but can reminisce. It’s touch points.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, I feel like I was experiencing the hive movement. I’d say like from the back seat. You had a front row seat to this time in Bay Area hip hop history. Can you explain where you were in all of this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>Yeah. Talk about seats. I got my first car from an auction like the Alameda County Police auction in Livermore. This bucket, Chrysler that I got with my student aid check from Laney College. And that’s how we got around. I was 18, going on 19. Just graduated high school. I had applied and had been accepted to Howard University in D.C. and I knew I wanted to do journalism. So I had this camera and I went everywhere I went. I just filmed it and we would hit everything from community events to parties to sideshows. And that living on the edge, I think, really is what kept us going. We knew it was dangerous, but it was enticingly dangerous, and that’s what made it fun. And that’s where we found freedom. And that’s largely what this piece is about.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, that’s like, amazing to think about. You were a baby journalist. You were a college student living in Oakland at the center of this, I think, very youth driven movement. And you were a witness to this, like very exuberant time. But this series alludes to something more that was happening there, this idea that have kids got trauma. What do you think people often misunderstand about the hyphy movement?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>The term hyphy itself comes from a hyper active person. I often heard it when somebody is describing a dog off the leash, like, Oh, that’s the hyphy pitbull means stay away from that. So the term just starting new and how it’s used and applied to folks, you know, it was already off a little bit. When people think of hyphy, especially like on the national scene. So keep in mind, in 2006 I leave Oakland and go to Washington, D.C. for college, and I start to see how people view the Bay Area from the outside. And I’m like, Oh, you. I think it’s all fun and games I think is goofy. Like, no, this hyperactive energy actually comes from really a void. A lot of us born with parents who were addicted to drugs and that that hyperactive energy often turned malicious. And I don’t think it was depicted that way once it hit, the national media hyphy became a little little more friendly, a lot goofier and easier to digest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>You were just alluding to this pen, but what else was happening in Oakland in 2006? What is the context of the hyphy movement during this time?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>So as E-40 might get a report card album which features the song Tell Me When to Go and to? Blow the Whistle. Album and song start to blow up and people are dancing and partying at the same time. Oakland is witnessing an uptick in homicides where that year 2006, 148 people were reportedly killed in the city of Oakland. In January of that year. I lost a friend by the name of Willie Clay in November of that year. I lost a friend by the name of Marcel Campbell. And in between, I just remember so many R.I.P. memorials and people with airbrushed T-shirts that say R.I.P. on them and pamphlets from funerals in the dashboard of a Buick lightsabers at the Sideshow. So people are partying while still mourning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>Now that I have the language to express, oh, that’s what we were going through. We were processing this trauma. And so as I start to kind of pull back the layers of what was happening, it’s not just the 114 homicides. It’s also the amount of unemployment. It was the fact that you have predatory housing loans, overpolicing. Oakland Police Department went into federal receivership in 2003. And so this podcast, it starts off with, yeah, talking about going down and shaking your dress. But yet slowly but surely, they start to keep pulling back these layers and see why these hyphy kids are so hyphy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Episode one starts with a very personal experience of yours. The moment that you found out that a friend of yours named Willie Clay, who was an old middle school classmate, used to play ball with ride razor scooters with, was actually killed. Why did you start the series there Pen?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>Willie Clay was one of the first close friends that I lost to gun violence over the past two decades. When I think about how many people I know who have been killed, I think back to Willie Clay story. So I wanted to start there because it had that lasting impact on me as an 18 year old kind of stepping out into the world. It also happened in January of a very monumental year. So I thought that was the best place to start, especially from when to tell my story in the context of what was happening around me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, the series dives into the ways that that kind of violence that people were experiencing in Oakland directly led to this new wave of talent. Can you talk about how that happened?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>While I’m on one side of the neighborhood mourning for the loss of Willie Clay, on the other side of the community, there’s a brother by the name of Beeda Weeda, who’s an artist whose music is on the rise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>*\u003c/strong>music clip*\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>You know, after a number of incidents in the community beat, his management suggested that he record instead of in the neighborhood known as the Dubs and East Oakland. He recorded the high road building, which is a building owned by the legendary all mighty Hieroglyphics. Hip hop crew idolize the wind a little bit. It started recording at the Hero building and when he got in, essentially kicked in the door for a whole bunch of new talent from the Bay Area. I’m specifically from Oakland, an artist who still make music to this day. Everyone from your Jay Starling. Thank you. Hey, let him preserve this track. Nick it don’t call me. I’m sorry. Beck Shady. Nate. Hey. How was that? Go through the ghetto to say through the halls. Get the clapping that you niggas like around. Pull out. I’m bringing back Filthy Rich from seminary who’s doing magnificent things in my piece. Stand up in this front line. When I’m in, I’m straight. Oh, jeez. From my hood. That kind of story. Beyond just music. These are people who created businesses and sustain their families. And yet, like, music is one thing, but to create real generational change. That’s what happened there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I know one thing that pushed beat Twitter to the hero building was the gun violence in his community and gun violence that had hit him personally. And I know you talked to Taj Massey of the Souls of Mischief, really, about how that trauma is manifested in bittersweet as music itself. Right. Can you talk about how Taj described the sound of Bittersweet as music when he first heard it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>Beeda’s music? He has this one song called We Ain’t Listening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>*music clip*\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>When Tajai talks about it, he talks about it like it’s almost demonic. You know, the way that people describe hip hop, like in the negative way. Like, oh, what are these kids doing? That’s devil music. That’s really what hip hop is in general. Rapping, Like we just rapping, you know. And so to me, it exemplified the same feeling that maybe, you know, raising Hell or Rock Box or something. That. Dude. No, no, no, no. You know, or it’s like a jungle sometimes. Like it exemplified that spirit of there’s a whole other world out here that you are not being exposed to, and we’re going to make it sound beautiful over music.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>And when I heard that at 18, it spoke to me. It wasn’t like, I’m going to miss you. It’s like, Oh, I miss my friends. Or what’s happening with society, What’s going on? It wasn’t Marvin Gaye or anything like that. It was like aggressive. It was something to roll my windows down to like smoke and drive and like, really provided a vent for me, my friends and my community. I was nervous to ask people about trauma and how they express it, and a lot of folks were like, Yeah, man, we express it by like smiles and like laughter and like, partying aggressively.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And that idea is also represented in this viral video that you shot of Stomper, the Oakland A’s mascot in the early days of YouTube, which, by the way, I literally saw someone the other day post that video on Instagram, and I just wanted to be like, Do you know who took that video? I know the person who took his hand.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>*video clip*\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Can you tell me about that video that you shot and and the role that it played in in this episode for you and in sort of being a real, I think, visual representation as well of this idea that trauma is very much represented and can be seen in the culture of the hyphy movement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>Episode two starts with me showing a video of Stomper, the Oakland A’s mascot, dancing at a E-40 record release party in Emeryville in 2006. Crazy. Oh. Stompers, a goofy gig and having fun. The people around him are having fun. Hugs and smiles. And then I watched it again. I was like, Wait, what song is playing in the background? It’s E-40 happy to be here, in which he’s talking essentially about surviving hard times and losing loved ones along the way. And then I’m watching the video even closely. And I mean, it’s, you know, it’s pixelated. It’s 26, right? But I can see that one of the people has a airbrushed t shirt on and it says R.I.P. across his chest as he’s dancing and gig and having fun.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>I’m like, those are signs of what we were experiencing at that time. I don’t think we knew at the time that we were like expressing pain, but surf dancing or being just doing hip hop. I feel like that was just something we did. And again, in retrospect of looking at it like, Oh, the biggest turf dance video that is on the Internet right now is turfing in the rain, where a group of young men are on a corner in East Oakland honoring their deceased loved one. Like that speaks volumes of the culture of turf dancing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, speaking of YouTube, as we were just talking about, there are four total episodes of Have Kids Got Trauma. And I know the third focuses on kind of like the concurrent rise of social media during that time. You know, I think back on my experience, MySpace and YouTube really allowed, I think people like me from the suburbs to hear and see the music and the culture without being in the thick of it. Right. Like sort of experiencing it, but seeing it removed from the context to become this thing that really you just experience online. Once social media kind of did start to influence the movement. Penn What effect did you see it having on the sort of. Story that we know about the hyphy movement or that we think we know about the hyphy movement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>It was a combination of both social media and also major media outlets, shifting the narrative, taking the story and packaging it and selling it as they want to. Social media brought about a lot of copycat stuff. So I think I’ve talked to people about seeing Ghost riding the whip on video and then how they try to reenact it wherever they were. Now, how many times are videos posted of people go through the whip going wrong culture, It spreads, and when it spreads, people are going to take aspects of it and incorporate it into their lives and things are going to change and that is just natural. And then the unnatural side of things is when companies, big publications, record labels, they try to take something that’s a phenomenon, a youth phenomenon, and package it and send it back to the youth. And that’s one of the things that I saw. We saw it happen in hip hop in general and then specifically in the hyphy movement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I have to imagine that it was difficult and probably painful to revisit some of this time in this particular way. But why was it important for you to look back at this time through this lens? Like, what do you hope I guess to remember by doing this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>Before the podcast came out, I had the opportunity to share some of the things that I was working on with a group of people at the Academy of Sciences, and we talked about this area. That open discussion allowed me to see the benefit of telling the story is that people see that they’re not alone. A lot of folks shared with me personal trauma that they really hadn’t thought about from 2006 or even prior. And so this podcast project is an opportunity for the community to come together and say, you know what, collectively we did go do something at the start of the millennium and what can we learn now so that we don’t pass that trauma down to the next generation?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>At the end of this project, just last week, I saw a kid I look at as a nephew speaking to Boots Riley at Fremont High School, and he was talking about the beauty of the hyphy movement and how it brought people together. My kids were born in 2006, and so he looks at it, you know, kind of like fondly. And also it’s awesome that he has that perspective on the hyphy movement because obviously his dad did something right to ensure that it didn’t get passed down to him. Whatever traumas his father experienced then didn’t get passed on him. That’s what I really wanted to do, is acknowledge what we went through and be clear about the causes of them and see see it so that we don’t pass them down to the next generation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What do you tell your daughter now about the hyphy movement and how do you think about this idea of like not passing your that trauma down to her?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>Getting a little ahead of myself, but my next project or next piece, a next podcast that I’m working on is about parenthood and music, how music is a teaching tool. And I realize I don’t talk much about the hyphy movement with her. I mean, she’s seven and there’s a lot of vulgarity in the hyphy music. And so, like, maybe, maybe that’s the reason, like we’ve, we’ve listened to globally. That’s all we listen to too. Sure. Like, oh, too short, like, you know, getting it or, you know, like kind of uplifting to short.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>You no blow the whistle for her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>Yeah. Not. Not yet. Not yet. I’ll wait til she comes home from school and she’s talking about. I’m like, What? You know about It’s time to teach you. We haven’t gotten to that point, but when we when we do, I definitely want to be able to provide context and full context and say it’s not just about going down. It’s it’s deeper than just shaking your dreads.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well Pen, thank you so much for this series and thank you for chatting with me. I appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>Always a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Pendarvis Harshaw, host of Rightnowish a podcast from KQED that explores art and culture in the Bay Area. Episode three of this four part series, Hyphy Kids Got Trauma drops tomorrow. Make sure to subscribe to Rightnowish so you don’t miss the next episodes. This conversation with Pen was cut down and edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. Maria Esquinca scored this episode and added all the tape. The Bay is a production of member supported KQED in San Francisco. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Thanks for listening. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cdiv class=\"c-message_kit__blocks c-message_kit__blocks--rich_text\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"c-message__message_blocks c-message__message_blocks--rich_text\" data-qa=\"message-text\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-block_kit_renderer\" data-qa=\"block-kit-renderer\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-block_kit_renderer__block_wrapper p-block_kit_renderer__block_wrapper--first\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-rich_text_block\" dir=\"auto\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-rich_text_section\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"c-message__reply_bar c-message_kit__thread_replies\" role=\"presentation\" data-qa=\"reply_bar\" data-stringify-ignore=\"true\">\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">2006 was the height of the hyphy movement — a time of exuberant, goofy, frenetic energy. But there was so much more going on beneath the surface.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Rightnowish host Pendarvis Harshaw would know — he was a budding journalist with a front-row seat to the culture. Today, he talks with us about his four-part series, “Hyphy Kids Got Trauma.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13934874/hyphy-kids-got-trauma\">Hyphy Kids Got Trauma: A Rightnowish Podcast Series\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC1856160776&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Hey, just a quick heads up. This episode contains explicit language. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. 2006 was a big year in the Bay Area. It was the year of white tees and Stunna shades when Too Short dropped “Blow the Whistle” and E-40 released my ghetto report card with the hit, “Tell Me When to Go.” It was the height of the hyphy movement, but there was so much more going on. Oakland was having a bad year with gun violence, overpolicing, and the onset of gentrification loomed. And this is all where my colleague and Rightnowish host Pendarvis Harshaw, starts his newest series, Hyphy Kids Got Trauma.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>2006, I leave Oakland and go to Washington, D.C., and I start to see how people view the Bay Area from the outside. And I’m like, Oh, you. I think it’s all fun and games I think is goofy. No, this hyperactive energy actually comes from really a void in a lot of ways.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah. I’ve never thought of the words hyphy and trauma in the same sentence, but Pen would know. He was a budding journalist with a front row seat to the movement in 2006. And today, we talk with him about the sounds and scars of the time and explore the hyphy movement as you’ve never heard before. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Pen, this series of yours, Hyphy Kids Got Trauma takes place in 2006, the height of the hyphy movement. Can I tell you where I was in 2006 and during the hyphy movement?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>Please bring me into your world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So I was, I’m going to date myself, 11 years old, going to middle school in Sassoon City, California. I was on MySpace even though my parents didn’t want me to have a MySpace. Definitely had a pair of stunner shades. I would say I probably was experiencing the hyphy movement really on the radio and online, like on the drives that my family would take every week to Vallejo to go visit our family out there. Be Wild 94 nine. When I was at Cameo Camille listening to the hyphy music in that way, and then on people’s MySpace pages. So that’s where I was.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>This is made for you. This is made for the kid who who was there but wasn’t fully there but can reminisce. It’s touch points.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, I feel like I was experiencing the hive movement. I’d say like from the back seat. You had a front row seat to this time in Bay Area hip hop history. Can you explain where you were in all of this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>Yeah. Talk about seats. I got my first car from an auction like the Alameda County Police auction in Livermore. This bucket, Chrysler that I got with my student aid check from Laney College. And that’s how we got around. I was 18, going on 19. Just graduated high school. I had applied and had been accepted to Howard University in D.C. and I knew I wanted to do journalism. So I had this camera and I went everywhere I went. I just filmed it and we would hit everything from community events to parties to sideshows. And that living on the edge, I think, really is what kept us going. We knew it was dangerous, but it was enticingly dangerous, and that’s what made it fun. And that’s where we found freedom. And that’s largely what this piece is about.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, that’s like, amazing to think about. You were a baby journalist. You were a college student living in Oakland at the center of this, I think, very youth driven movement. And you were a witness to this, like very exuberant time. But this series alludes to something more that was happening there, this idea that have kids got trauma. What do you think people often misunderstand about the hyphy movement?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>The term hyphy itself comes from a hyper active person. I often heard it when somebody is describing a dog off the leash, like, Oh, that’s the hyphy pitbull means stay away from that. So the term just starting new and how it’s used and applied to folks, you know, it was already off a little bit. When people think of hyphy, especially like on the national scene. So keep in mind, in 2006 I leave Oakland and go to Washington, D.C. for college, and I start to see how people view the Bay Area from the outside. And I’m like, Oh, you. I think it’s all fun and games I think is goofy. Like, no, this hyperactive energy actually comes from really a void. A lot of us born with parents who were addicted to drugs and that that hyperactive energy often turned malicious. And I don’t think it was depicted that way once it hit, the national media hyphy became a little little more friendly, a lot goofier and easier to digest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>You were just alluding to this pen, but what else was happening in Oakland in 2006? What is the context of the hyphy movement during this time?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>So as E-40 might get a report card album which features the song Tell Me When to Go and to? Blow the Whistle. Album and song start to blow up and people are dancing and partying at the same time. Oakland is witnessing an uptick in homicides where that year 2006, 148 people were reportedly killed in the city of Oakland. In January of that year. I lost a friend by the name of Willie Clay in November of that year. I lost a friend by the name of Marcel Campbell. And in between, I just remember so many R.I.P. memorials and people with airbrushed T-shirts that say R.I.P. on them and pamphlets from funerals in the dashboard of a Buick lightsabers at the Sideshow. So people are partying while still mourning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>Now that I have the language to express, oh, that’s what we were going through. We were processing this trauma. And so as I start to kind of pull back the layers of what was happening, it’s not just the 114 homicides. It’s also the amount of unemployment. It was the fact that you have predatory housing loans, overpolicing. Oakland Police Department went into federal receivership in 2003. And so this podcast, it starts off with, yeah, talking about going down and shaking your dress. But yet slowly but surely, they start to keep pulling back these layers and see why these hyphy kids are so hyphy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Episode one starts with a very personal experience of yours. The moment that you found out that a friend of yours named Willie Clay, who was an old middle school classmate, used to play ball with ride razor scooters with, was actually killed. Why did you start the series there Pen?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>Willie Clay was one of the first close friends that I lost to gun violence over the past two decades. When I think about how many people I know who have been killed, I think back to Willie Clay story. So I wanted to start there because it had that lasting impact on me as an 18 year old kind of stepping out into the world. It also happened in January of a very monumental year. So I thought that was the best place to start, especially from when to tell my story in the context of what was happening around me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, the series dives into the ways that that kind of violence that people were experiencing in Oakland directly led to this new wave of talent. Can you talk about how that happened?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>While I’m on one side of the neighborhood mourning for the loss of Willie Clay, on the other side of the community, there’s a brother by the name of Beeda Weeda, who’s an artist whose music is on the rise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>*\u003c/strong>music clip*\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>You know, after a number of incidents in the community beat, his management suggested that he record instead of in the neighborhood known as the Dubs and East Oakland. He recorded the high road building, which is a building owned by the legendary all mighty Hieroglyphics. Hip hop crew idolize the wind a little bit. It started recording at the Hero building and when he got in, essentially kicked in the door for a whole bunch of new talent from the Bay Area. I’m specifically from Oakland, an artist who still make music to this day. Everyone from your Jay Starling. Thank you. Hey, let him preserve this track. Nick it don’t call me. I’m sorry. Beck Shady. Nate. Hey. How was that? Go through the ghetto to say through the halls. Get the clapping that you niggas like around. Pull out. I’m bringing back Filthy Rich from seminary who’s doing magnificent things in my piece. Stand up in this front line. When I’m in, I’m straight. Oh, jeez. From my hood. That kind of story. Beyond just music. These are people who created businesses and sustain their families. And yet, like, music is one thing, but to create real generational change. That’s what happened there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I know one thing that pushed beat Twitter to the hero building was the gun violence in his community and gun violence that had hit him personally. And I know you talked to Taj Massey of the Souls of Mischief, really, about how that trauma is manifested in bittersweet as music itself. Right. Can you talk about how Taj described the sound of Bittersweet as music when he first heard it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>Beeda’s music? He has this one song called We Ain’t Listening.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>*music clip*\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>When Tajai talks about it, he talks about it like it’s almost demonic. You know, the way that people describe hip hop, like in the negative way. Like, oh, what are these kids doing? That’s devil music. That’s really what hip hop is in general. Rapping, Like we just rapping, you know. And so to me, it exemplified the same feeling that maybe, you know, raising Hell or Rock Box or something. That. Dude. No, no, no, no. You know, or it’s like a jungle sometimes. Like it exemplified that spirit of there’s a whole other world out here that you are not being exposed to, and we’re going to make it sound beautiful over music.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>And when I heard that at 18, it spoke to me. It wasn’t like, I’m going to miss you. It’s like, Oh, I miss my friends. Or what’s happening with society, What’s going on? It wasn’t Marvin Gaye or anything like that. It was like aggressive. It was something to roll my windows down to like smoke and drive and like, really provided a vent for me, my friends and my community. I was nervous to ask people about trauma and how they express it, and a lot of folks were like, Yeah, man, we express it by like smiles and like laughter and like, partying aggressively.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And that idea is also represented in this viral video that you shot of Stomper, the Oakland A’s mascot in the early days of YouTube, which, by the way, I literally saw someone the other day post that video on Instagram, and I just wanted to be like, Do you know who took that video? I know the person who took his hand.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>*video clip*\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Can you tell me about that video that you shot and and the role that it played in in this episode for you and in sort of being a real, I think, visual representation as well of this idea that trauma is very much represented and can be seen in the culture of the hyphy movement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>Episode two starts with me showing a video of Stomper, the Oakland A’s mascot, dancing at a E-40 record release party in Emeryville in 2006. Crazy. Oh. Stompers, a goofy gig and having fun. The people around him are having fun. Hugs and smiles. And then I watched it again. I was like, Wait, what song is playing in the background? It’s E-40 happy to be here, in which he’s talking essentially about surviving hard times and losing loved ones along the way. And then I’m watching the video even closely. And I mean, it’s, you know, it’s pixelated. It’s 26, right? But I can see that one of the people has a airbrushed t shirt on and it says R.I.P. across his chest as he’s dancing and gig and having fun.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>I’m like, those are signs of what we were experiencing at that time. I don’t think we knew at the time that we were like expressing pain, but surf dancing or being just doing hip hop. I feel like that was just something we did. And again, in retrospect of looking at it like, Oh, the biggest turf dance video that is on the Internet right now is turfing in the rain, where a group of young men are on a corner in East Oakland honoring their deceased loved one. Like that speaks volumes of the culture of turf dancing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, speaking of YouTube, as we were just talking about, there are four total episodes of Have Kids Got Trauma. And I know the third focuses on kind of like the concurrent rise of social media during that time. You know, I think back on my experience, MySpace and YouTube really allowed, I think people like me from the suburbs to hear and see the music and the culture without being in the thick of it. Right. Like sort of experiencing it, but seeing it removed from the context to become this thing that really you just experience online. Once social media kind of did start to influence the movement. Penn What effect did you see it having on the sort of. Story that we know about the hyphy movement or that we think we know about the hyphy movement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>It was a combination of both social media and also major media outlets, shifting the narrative, taking the story and packaging it and selling it as they want to. Social media brought about a lot of copycat stuff. So I think I’ve talked to people about seeing Ghost riding the whip on video and then how they try to reenact it wherever they were. Now, how many times are videos posted of people go through the whip going wrong culture, It spreads, and when it spreads, people are going to take aspects of it and incorporate it into their lives and things are going to change and that is just natural. And then the unnatural side of things is when companies, big publications, record labels, they try to take something that’s a phenomenon, a youth phenomenon, and package it and send it back to the youth. And that’s one of the things that I saw. We saw it happen in hip hop in general and then specifically in the hyphy movement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I have to imagine that it was difficult and probably painful to revisit some of this time in this particular way. But why was it important for you to look back at this time through this lens? Like, what do you hope I guess to remember by doing this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>Before the podcast came out, I had the opportunity to share some of the things that I was working on with a group of people at the Academy of Sciences, and we talked about this area. That open discussion allowed me to see the benefit of telling the story is that people see that they’re not alone. A lot of folks shared with me personal trauma that they really hadn’t thought about from 2006 or even prior. And so this podcast project is an opportunity for the community to come together and say, you know what, collectively we did go do something at the start of the millennium and what can we learn now so that we don’t pass that trauma down to the next generation?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>At the end of this project, just last week, I saw a kid I look at as a nephew speaking to Boots Riley at Fremont High School, and he was talking about the beauty of the hyphy movement and how it brought people together. My kids were born in 2006, and so he looks at it, you know, kind of like fondly. And also it’s awesome that he has that perspective on the hyphy movement because obviously his dad did something right to ensure that it didn’t get passed down to him. Whatever traumas his father experienced then didn’t get passed on him. That’s what I really wanted to do, is acknowledge what we went through and be clear about the causes of them and see see it so that we don’t pass them down to the next generation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>What do you tell your daughter now about the hyphy movement and how do you think about this idea of like not passing your that trauma down to her?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>Getting a little ahead of myself, but my next project or next piece, a next podcast that I’m working on is about parenthood and music, how music is a teaching tool. And I realize I don’t talk much about the hyphy movement with her. I mean, she’s seven and there’s a lot of vulgarity in the hyphy music. And so, like, maybe, maybe that’s the reason, like we’ve, we’ve listened to globally. That’s all we listen to too. Sure. Like, oh, too short, like, you know, getting it or, you know, like kind of uplifting to short.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>You no blow the whistle for her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>Yeah. Not. Not yet. Not yet. I’ll wait til she comes home from school and she’s talking about. I’m like, What? You know about It’s time to teach you. We haven’t gotten to that point, but when we when we do, I definitely want to be able to provide context and full context and say it’s not just about going down. It’s it’s deeper than just shaking your dreads.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well Pen, thank you so much for this series and thank you for chatting with me. I appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Pendarvis Harshaw: \u003c/strong>Always a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Pendarvis Harshaw, host of Rightnowish a podcast from KQED that explores art and culture in the Bay Area. Episode three of this four part series, Hyphy Kids Got Trauma drops tomorrow. Make sure to subscribe to Rightnowish so you don’t miss the next episodes. This conversation with Pen was cut down and edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. Maria Esquinca scored this episode and added all the tape. The Bay is a production of member supported KQED in San Francisco. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Thanks for listening. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"title": "The Legacy Dianne Feinstein Leaves Behind in the Bay Area",
"headTitle": "The Legacy Dianne Feinstein Leaves Behind in the Bay Area | KQED",
"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp>On Thursday night, Sen. Dianne Feinstein passed away at age 90. Before becoming a U.S. Senator in 1992, she was best known for her time as San Francisco mayor. Today, we revisit an episode with KQED’s Scott Shafer about how she got her start in local politics.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC3980513829&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Links:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/liveblog/dianne-feinstein-dies\">Senator Dianne Feinstein Dies at 90: Live Updates.\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11962877/11962877-revision-v1\">What Feinstein’s Death Means For Control of the Senate and the Looming Government Shutdown.\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13845645/dianne-feinstein-jello-biafra-san-francisco-punk\">How San Francisco Punk Reacted to Dianne Feinstein in the 1970s.\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b> I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to the Bay. Local news to Keep You Rooted. Condolences and tributes have been pouring in for Senator Dianne Feinstein, who died in her Washington, D.C., home at the age of 90. Feinstein served in the U.S. Senate for more than 30 years while she was in office. She was a champion of gun control and a trailblazer for women in politics. But by the end of her life, she was a controversial figure. Some Democrats who hoped she would step aside for a new generation grew angry and frustrated with her for continuing to stay in office, even as her health declined. At one point, though, Feinstein was the next generation, a woman of many firsts who was breaking glass ceilings for those behind her in local, state and national politics.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dianne Feinstein: \u003c/b>I look to building San Francisco’s future through leadership, honesty and creativity. So let’s end once and for all the nonsense that a woman is not capable of providing the strength and toughness necessary.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b> Today, we’re revisiting a conversation from back in March. Our senior editor, Alan Monticello, talks with KQED’s Scott Shafer about Dianne Feinstein’s San Francisco roots and the legacy she leaves behind in the Bay Area. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo:\u003c/strong> Hi. This is Alan Montecillo, senior editor of The Bay. We’ve been planning this episode about DianneFeinstein for some time now. But a few days ago, we got some breaking news about her. On Thursday, Senator Feinstein announced that she’s been admitted to a hospital in the Bay Area to receive treatment for shingles. In a statement, she said she was diagnosed last month and that she expects to make a full recovery and return to Washington later on in March. For more updates on this and other breaking news stories, check out KQED.org or tune in to 88.5 FM. All right. Here’s the show.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo:\u003c/strong> I’m Alan Montecillo in for Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. By now, you probably know that Senator Dianne Feinstein is retiring at the end of her term next year after representing California in the U.S. Senate since 1992. But before she was in Washington, Feinstein was known best for her time in San Francisco in the seventies and eighties. She led the city through some difficult and turbulent times. She also became well known across the country for being one of just a few women in elected office.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Dianne Feinstein:\u003c/strong> I look to building San Francisco’s future through leadership, honesty and creativity. So, let’s end once and for all the nonsense that a woman is not capable of providing the strength and toughness necessary to do this.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo:\u003c/strong> Today: when Dianne Feinstein was mayor of San Francisco.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Dianne Feinstein was born Diane Goldman in 1933 in San Francisco.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Scott Shafer is senior editor of KQED’s California Politics and Government Desk.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Her father was a well-known surgeon. Her mother was an immigrant from Russia, a former model. Her parents were both Jewish, but she went to Sacred Heart, which is a Catholic school, very disciplined, you know, very academic. She did not have a happy childhood. She had two younger sisters. Her mother was known to drink a lot. She would fly off into a rage for no particular reason.She learned to be an adult as a young kid because she had to take care of her younger sisters. And I think you can see some of that behavior in her as a political figure, somebody who was sort of in charge. She went to Stanford. She focused on political science. She got involved in student government. Found out she was pretty good at it and liked it. And obviously, that’s what she pursued in 1969.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo:\u003c/strong> She decides to run for the board of supervisors. I believe this is her first run for office. What are her big issues when she decides to run citywide?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> She’s always been focused on sort of the nuts and bolts of government. And that was certainly what she was looking at when she was running that first time. She was closely aligned with business groups. She cared a lot about the economy of the city, the level of taxation, services like Muni. It raised a lot of money. She was on television, the very first candidate running for the Board of supervisors in San Francisco that ever actually advertised on TV.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Interviewer:\u003c/strong> What do you think that the new people can do that the old ones haven’t?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Dianne Feinstein:\u003c/strong> Well, I don’t think the board has really done their homework when it comes to taxation. There are other kinds of taxes which are fair.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> You know, seeing her in those early, early clips, you know, in 1969, I always think of her as a serious-minded politician, somebody who really had her nose to the grindstone and was looking at the budget and reading bills and legislation.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Dianne Feinstein:\u003c/strong> I think we can come up with law enforcement programs that really can afford a greater degree of public protection. And I, for one, intend to speak out very loudly about this pollution of our Bay with our sewage. As you know, when it rains, all of our raw sewage is dumped into the Bay.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> She very much appealed to sort of the center of San Francisco politics. And she came in first place, which — and then she became the [San Francisco] Board of Supervisors president –the first woman to do that.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo:\u003c/strong> This was also a time, as you mentioned, where there were just way, way way fewer women in elected office. You mentioned she was the only woman who ran in that supervisor’s race in 1969. How much did that come up when she was campaigning and how did she talk about it at that time?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> I don’t think she made a big deal of it.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>News anchor:\u003c/strong> Dianne Feinstein is the kind of woman many ladies could dislike if she wasn’t so appealing. She does everything well. She is bright, poised, attractive and capable.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> I don’t think she wanted to draw attention to the fact that she was a woman. If she was asked about it — and she was, you know, later, after she got elected — she would say things like, well, you know, as long as a woman can maintain her femininity and be proper, I think that she can still be a good politician. Just very not wanting to color too far outside the lines.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>News anchor:\u003c/strong> Mrs. Feinstein, how do you feel about being a woman involved in politics? Do you think that that’s an asset or a liability, or do you think it’s a factor perhaps in your victory orin your effectiveness?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Dianne Feinstein:\u003c/strong> Well, I think it’s an asset, actually. I think if a woman is able to retain her femininity, if she’s able to use it with taste and wisely, if she also has a good brain and commonsense and uses these ingredients as well, I think she can be enormously effective.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> And that was something that later in her career, even though she was breaking these glass ceilings, I think a lot of women felt that she didn’t lean into the feminist movement enough.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Feinstein gets elected to the board in1969, eventually becomes the board president. She does run for mayor in ’71 and ’75 and loses both times. In 1978, she does become the mayor, but kind of through one of the darkest moments in San Francisco history. I’m talking, of course, about the assassinations of Harvey Milk and George Mosconi. Remind me, walk me through the lead-up to that day. What was going on in San Francisco?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Wow. I mean, 1978 as a year was a traumatic year for Dianne Feinstein, personally and professionally. Her husband, Bert, who was the love of her life, by all accounts, died. We had the horrible spectacle of hundreds of people dying in Jonestown.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>News anchor:\u003c/strong> I also have to warn you, as we begin this special report, that what you’re about to see almost defies description. And some of you may not want to watch it.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer: \u003c/strong>… which was a compound down in Guyana in South America. It was led by Jim Jones, who was a preacher in San Francisco, very politically connected.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>News anchor:\u003c/strong> As soon as these pictures from Jonestown cleared our newsroom, everybody, even a lot of hardened news people reacted in horror and disbelief. The word on everybody’s lips was shades of Auschwitz.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> And so the city was reeling. And then just like ten days or so later, shots rang out in city hall. The mayor, George Mosconi, who was a beloved progressive, [was] shot and killed by Dan White, who was a member of the Board of Supervisors. He then walked down the hall, shot and killed Harvey Milk, the first openly gay member of the Board of [Supervisors], and Feinstein found his body.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo:\u003c/strong> There’s, of course, this very well known clip of Acting Mayor Feinstein having to essentially break this news to the public. What do you remember from that footage?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer: \u003c/strong>Every time I see that footage, it sends a chill up and down my spine. And I’ve seen it many times.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>News anchor:\u003c/strong> Both Mayor Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk have been shot and killed.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Crowd:\u003c/strong> [HORRIFIED GASPS FROM CROWD]\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Her self-control, her looking straight out into the middle distance and breaking the news. I mean, nowadays we all find out about news instantaneously on our phones. But the idea that you could have, you know, an assassinated mayor and an assassinated supervisor in the building and no one knew. So, she delivered the news to a press corps and others who were assembled outside the mayor’s office. And so, what really stands out was just her shock, you know, her grief, but also holding it together and being strong in a moment when the wheels were falling off the city.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo:\u003c/strong> Does Feinstein ever kind of open up later in life about what that day was like for her?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> She does. She talked with me and Marisa Lagos on Political Breakdown about it.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Dianne Feinstein:\u003c/strong> It’s still very traumatic for me to look back on candidly. And I would give up anything if they had not happened.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Ironically, hours before the assassinations, Dianne Feinstein had mentioned to people that she was thinking of getting out of politics.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Dianne Feinstein:\u003c/strong> I had run for mayor, and I was defeated. And I was convinced I would never be mayor. My husband had died. I had a daughter. And I just thought enough was enough.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> And Dianne Feinstein herself had been the subject of attempted violence. In 1976, there was a radical anti-capitalist group that planted a bomb outside her house in Pacific Heights. It didn’t go off. She wasn’t hurt. They also shot out her windows in a beach house that she had in Marin. So, she was, you know, no stranger to violence. But I think the level of violence was just too much for so many people in San Francisco to bear. But she held it together.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo:\u003c/strong> So, Dianne Feinstein becomes the mayor in 1978 in the wake of this horrific tragedy. You’ve already mentioned that this was an extremely chaotic time in San Francisco. I mean, what does she inherit as she steps right into the job?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Well, the first thing she has to do is to begin to heal the city, bring the city back together after the assassinations, after Jonestown. And she really focused on the nuts and bolts of city government. One of her big campaigns as mayor early on was to save the cable cars. They needed a lot of repair. They were old. And she said, no, we can’t shut these down. These are an iconic symbol of San Francisco. And she led, you know, a group of businesspeople to raise the money to renovate the cable cars. The other thing I should point out, in terms of taking over as mayor, 1978 was a big year in politics in that voters in November of that year had passed Proposition 13, which was the so-called property tax revolt.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> And so the finances of cities and counties and state government were sort of thrown up into upheaval. And so mayors, including Feinstein, had to deal with this sort of huge disruption in revenue sources. And that was the kind of thing she focused on. It was those, you know — really meat and potatoes, you know, make sure the potholes are filled, make sure the police department has enough staffing and that sort of thing, make sure the buses are running on time. And it was in that environment that we saw the dawn of the AIDS epidemic, which was landed right on her desk.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>News anchor:\u003c/strong> This depression of the immune system can lead to a rare form of cancer, Kaposi’s sarcoma, which shows up as those purple spots. This cancer has a death rate of 80% two years after diagnosis. This is not a benign disease.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo\u003c/strong>: Yeah, let’s talk about that. Tell me more about Dianne Feinstein’s response to the AIDS crisis in San Francisco.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Dianne Feinstein really stepped up during the AIDS epidemic. I mean, it didn’t even have a name at that point. They called it GRID: Gay Related Immune Deficiency. At that point, there were a couple, just a very small number of these mysterious illnesses that had broken out among gay men. It was very troubling. And it, you know, quickly became clear that this was spreading rather fast. And at that time, Ronald Reagan was president. We had a Republican governor, George Deukmejian. And especially the Reagan administration did literally nothing helpful.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> And so it fell to San Francisco and Mayor Feinstein. And from the very beginning, as early as 1981–82, she put money in the city budget to investigate what was happening and put together the infrastructure of what became known as the San Francisco Model.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>P\u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>aul Volberding:\u003c/strong> San Francisco got a lot of credit for the San Francisco model of response to the AIDS epidemic. And really, a lot of that can be traced back to Dianne Feinstein’s leadership.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> People like Paul Volberding, who was a young AIDS doc at San Francisco General Hospital, would go to her and brief her on what was happening.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Paul Volberding:\u003c/strong> We were learning a lot very quickly and she wanted to, and I think she wanted to have policies that reflected the best knowledge at the time. In contrast to some places in the country, she really let that science lead her to her approach to this.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> She came from a medical background. She had been married to a doctor. Her father was a doctor. She was very interested in data. But when others, like Mayor Koch in New York, were doing nothing or not enough, she really, really embraced it and took the lead on putting together the system that got the city through a very, very dark time.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Paul Volberding:\u003c/strong> When we needed money to, you know, hire more doctors to develop more space at San Francisco General Hospital to bring people together, to look at research questions in the community, that support for that seemed to me to be always easy.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> The one big thing that she did that was very controversial is San Francisco had gay bathhouses, and even thought he virus hadn’t been discovered yet, it wasn’t clear what was causing AIDS, there was a sense among public health people that whatever it was was being spread by sexual contact among men, and she wanted to close down the bathhouses, and it became a big mess. Ultimately, she got her way. The bathhouses shut down, which I think many would say was the right thing to do.\u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo:\u003c/strong> What was her relationship with the gay community like when she was mayor?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer: \u003c/strong> Well, you have to, I think, look at it in the context of her time. You know, in the late seventies, there weren’t a lot of openly gay elected officials. You know, Harvey Milk had been shot and killed. It was somewhat risky in many places to even align yourself politically with the gay community. She did that, you know, and so she won support in her early campaigns for supervisor and later, you know, for mayor. However, she wasn’t beloved universally.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>News anchor:\u003c/strong> Feinstein is often criticized by gays for not feeling comfortable with the whole subject of homosexuality. Gays attack her for what they consider her inability to control alleged police harassment of gays.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer: \u003c/strong>She vetoed a piece of legislation that would have created domestic partnerships in San Francisco for same-sex couples. She never rode in the gay Pride parades to this day because I think she’s just so proper.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>News anchor:\u003c/strong> Here, she proclaims Lesbian Gay Freedom Week and boosts the gay parade in which she has never personally participated.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Dianne Feinstein:\u003c/strong> [Unintelligible]\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>S\u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>cott Shafer:\u003c/strong> There was a well-known, civic, gay activist who said once about Dianne Feinstein, she doesn’t care what we do in bed as long as we’re in bed by 11 o’clock. So, I would say it was very mixed. And also, the gay community tends to be a lot more liberal on issues. She was for the death penalty. She was very pro-business. But at the same time, I think looking back, she gets, you know, total credit for how she handled the AIDS epidemic.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo\u003c/strong>: In the end, was she a popular mayor?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Absolutely. I mean, I would say there were people who really disliked Dianne Feinstein. I think there were people who felt she was too conservative, that she was kind of a prude. You know, in a city that is known for kind of outrageousness. But I think her time as mayor has aged well. \u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo:\u003c/strong> How and when does she eventually kind of make the leap from the local to the national stage? We know her now as a senator, but how does that leap happen?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Well, in some ways, 1984. San Francisco hosted the Democratic National Convention, where Walter Mondale nominates Geraldine Ferraro to be the first woman on a major party ticket. And just before the convention, Dianne Feinstein and Geraldine Ferraro are on the cover of \u003cem>Time\u003c/em> magazine. Their photos, or pictures of them are there with the title “Why Not a Woman for Vice President?” So, by then, she was already developing a national profile. Everything changes in 1991, when Clarence Thomas is nominated by President Bush to be on the U.S. Supreme Court and there are allegations of sexual harassment and worse from Anita Hill.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Anita Hill:\u003c/strong> He talked about pornographic materials depicting individuals with large penises or large breasts involved in various sex acts.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> The Judiciary Committee, which held hearings into the confirmation of Thomas and which also talked with and interviewed Anita Hill, was all white males, mostly older, including Joe Biden, who was the chair. And they treated Anita Hill disrespectfully.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Joe Biden:\u003c/strong> It is appropriate to ask Professor Hill anything any member wishes to ask her to plumb the depths of her credibility.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Simpson: \u003c/strong>Why in God’s name would you ever speak to a man like that the rest of your life?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Howell Heflin:\u003c/strong> I’ve got to determine what your motivation might be. Are you a scorned woman? Are you interested in writing abook?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer: \u003c/strong>Clarence Thomas barely got confirmed. I think he got 51 [or 52] votes. And Feinstein and many others saw that as an indication that we needed to get more women into government in Washington.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Dianne Feinstein:\u003c/strong> Tonight, history is being made.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Dianne Feinstein, this Jewish woman from San Francisco becomes senator along with Barbara Boxer, who had been in the House of Representatives from Marin.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Dianne Feinstein:\u003c/strong> We will be the Cagney Lacey one-two punch for the state of California.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>S\u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>cott Shafer:\u003c/strong> And so, 1992 was really the year that she and others broke through in the so-called “Year of the Woman.” The number of women in the Senate went from two to six.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Tripling.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Yeah, tripled. Yes, exactly. It’s much higher now, thankfully. But nonetheless, that was really her big splash, I think, on the national scene.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Dianne Feinstein:\u003c/strong> So, Washington, ready or not, here we come.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo:\u003c/strong> We’re talking about this because, of course, Senator Feinstein is retiring. This marks more than 50 years of public service. A lot of the conversation now, understandably, is about her time as a U.S. senator. But when you look back at her time in San Francisco in the ’70s and ’80s, what stands out to you the most? And what do you want to make sure people don’t forget as they think about her long career?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Dianne Feinstein broke glass ceilings. She was a pioneer. She went places that no other woman had. She opened the door to a lot of other women running for office. She was somebody who steadied the ship at a time when the city was in crisis. She guided the city through a terrible, almost unimaginable — today —AIDS epidemic. HIV AIDS was a death sentence for everyone who got it at that time. And she got the city through that. She managed to hold the city together. And someone who was, you know, very competent, not always beloved, not always in line with the liberal values of the city, but someone who tried to do the right thing and broke a lot of glass ceilings along the way.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Scott, thanks so much.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> You’re welcome.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo:\u003c/strong> That was Scott Shafer, senior editor of KQED’s California Politics and Government Desk. This conversation was cut and edited by producer Maria Esquinca. I added the music and the tape. The audio you heard in this episode was courtesy of San Francisco State’s Bay Area TV Archive, KQED archives and C-SPAN. If you haven’t yet, please consider filling out our listener survey. It takes just eight minutes and it’s a great chance to tell us directly what you like about the show and what you want to hear more of. The Bay is a production of KQED in San Francisco. I’m Alan Montecillo in for Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Talk to you next time.\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "We revisit an episode with KQED’s Scott Shafer about how Sen. Dianne Feinstein got her start in local politics.\r\n",
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"description": "We revisit an episode with KQED’s Scott Shafer about how Sen. Dianne Feinstein got her start in local politics.\r\n",
"title": "The Legacy Dianne Feinstein Leaves Behind in the Bay Area | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp>On Thursday night, Sen. Dianne Feinstein passed away at age 90. Before becoming a U.S. Senator in 1992, she was best known for her time as San Francisco mayor. Today, we revisit an episode with KQED’s Scott Shafer about how she got her start in local politics.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC3980513829&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Links:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/liveblog/dianne-feinstein-dies\">Senator Dianne Feinstein Dies at 90: Live Updates.\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11962877/11962877-revision-v1\">What Feinstein’s Death Means For Control of the Senate and the Looming Government Shutdown.\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/arts/13845645/dianne-feinstein-jello-biafra-san-francisco-punk\">How San Francisco Punk Reacted to Dianne Feinstein in the 1970s.\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b> I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to the Bay. Local news to Keep You Rooted. Condolences and tributes have been pouring in for Senator Dianne Feinstein, who died in her Washington, D.C., home at the age of 90. Feinstein served in the U.S. Senate for more than 30 years while she was in office. She was a champion of gun control and a trailblazer for women in politics. But by the end of her life, she was a controversial figure. Some Democrats who hoped she would step aside for a new generation grew angry and frustrated with her for continuing to stay in office, even as her health declined. At one point, though, Feinstein was the next generation, a woman of many firsts who was breaking glass ceilings for those behind her in local, state and national politics.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Dianne Feinstein: \u003c/b>I look to building San Francisco’s future through leadership, honesty and creativity. So let’s end once and for all the nonsense that a woman is not capable of providing the strength and toughness necessary.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra:\u003c/b> Today, we’re revisiting a conversation from back in March. Our senior editor, Alan Monticello, talks with KQED’s Scott Shafer about Dianne Feinstein’s San Francisco roots and the legacy she leaves behind in the Bay Area. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo:\u003c/strong> Hi. This is Alan Montecillo, senior editor of The Bay. We’ve been planning this episode about DianneFeinstein for some time now. But a few days ago, we got some breaking news about her. On Thursday, Senator Feinstein announced that she’s been admitted to a hospital in the Bay Area to receive treatment for shingles. In a statement, she said she was diagnosed last month and that she expects to make a full recovery and return to Washington later on in March. For more updates on this and other breaking news stories, check out KQED.org or tune in to 88.5 FM. All right. Here’s the show.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo:\u003c/strong> I’m Alan Montecillo in for Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. By now, you probably know that Senator Dianne Feinstein is retiring at the end of her term next year after representing California in the U.S. Senate since 1992. But before she was in Washington, Feinstein was known best for her time in San Francisco in the seventies and eighties. She led the city through some difficult and turbulent times. She also became well known across the country for being one of just a few women in elected office.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Dianne Feinstein:\u003c/strong> I look to building San Francisco’s future through leadership, honesty and creativity. So, let’s end once and for all the nonsense that a woman is not capable of providing the strength and toughness necessary to do this.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo:\u003c/strong> Today: when Dianne Feinstein was mayor of San Francisco.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Dianne Feinstein was born Diane Goldman in 1933 in San Francisco.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Scott Shafer is senior editor of KQED’s California Politics and Government Desk.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Her father was a well-known surgeon. Her mother was an immigrant from Russia, a former model. Her parents were both Jewish, but she went to Sacred Heart, which is a Catholic school, very disciplined, you know, very academic. She did not have a happy childhood. She had two younger sisters. Her mother was known to drink a lot. She would fly off into a rage for no particular reason.She learned to be an adult as a young kid because she had to take care of her younger sisters. And I think you can see some of that behavior in her as a political figure, somebody who was sort of in charge. She went to Stanford. She focused on political science. She got involved in student government. Found out she was pretty good at it and liked it. And obviously, that’s what she pursued in 1969.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo:\u003c/strong> She decides to run for the board of supervisors. I believe this is her first run for office. What are her big issues when she decides to run citywide?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> She’s always been focused on sort of the nuts and bolts of government. And that was certainly what she was looking at when she was running that first time. She was closely aligned with business groups. She cared a lot about the economy of the city, the level of taxation, services like Muni. It raised a lot of money. She was on television, the very first candidate running for the Board of supervisors in San Francisco that ever actually advertised on TV.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Interviewer:\u003c/strong> What do you think that the new people can do that the old ones haven’t?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Dianne Feinstein:\u003c/strong> Well, I don’t think the board has really done their homework when it comes to taxation. There are other kinds of taxes which are fair.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> You know, seeing her in those early, early clips, you know, in 1969, I always think of her as a serious-minded politician, somebody who really had her nose to the grindstone and was looking at the budget and reading bills and legislation.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Dianne Feinstein:\u003c/strong> I think we can come up with law enforcement programs that really can afford a greater degree of public protection. And I, for one, intend to speak out very loudly about this pollution of our Bay with our sewage. As you know, when it rains, all of our raw sewage is dumped into the Bay.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> She very much appealed to sort of the center of San Francisco politics. And she came in first place, which — and then she became the [San Francisco] Board of Supervisors president –the first woman to do that.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo:\u003c/strong> This was also a time, as you mentioned, where there were just way, way way fewer women in elected office. You mentioned she was the only woman who ran in that supervisor’s race in 1969. How much did that come up when she was campaigning and how did she talk about it at that time?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> I don’t think she made a big deal of it.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>News anchor:\u003c/strong> Dianne Feinstein is the kind of woman many ladies could dislike if she wasn’t so appealing. She does everything well. She is bright, poised, attractive and capable.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> I don’t think she wanted to draw attention to the fact that she was a woman. If she was asked about it — and she was, you know, later, after she got elected — she would say things like, well, you know, as long as a woman can maintain her femininity and be proper, I think that she can still be a good politician. Just very not wanting to color too far outside the lines.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>News anchor:\u003c/strong> Mrs. Feinstein, how do you feel about being a woman involved in politics? Do you think that that’s an asset or a liability, or do you think it’s a factor perhaps in your victory orin your effectiveness?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Dianne Feinstein:\u003c/strong> Well, I think it’s an asset, actually. I think if a woman is able to retain her femininity, if she’s able to use it with taste and wisely, if she also has a good brain and commonsense and uses these ingredients as well, I think she can be enormously effective.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> And that was something that later in her career, even though she was breaking these glass ceilings, I think a lot of women felt that she didn’t lean into the feminist movement enough.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Feinstein gets elected to the board in1969, eventually becomes the board president. She does run for mayor in ’71 and ’75 and loses both times. In 1978, she does become the mayor, but kind of through one of the darkest moments in San Francisco history. I’m talking, of course, about the assassinations of Harvey Milk and George Mosconi. Remind me, walk me through the lead-up to that day. What was going on in San Francisco?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Wow. I mean, 1978 as a year was a traumatic year for Dianne Feinstein, personally and professionally. Her husband, Bert, who was the love of her life, by all accounts, died. We had the horrible spectacle of hundreds of people dying in Jonestown.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>News anchor:\u003c/strong> I also have to warn you, as we begin this special report, that what you’re about to see almost defies description. And some of you may not want to watch it.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer: \u003c/strong>… which was a compound down in Guyana in South America. It was led by Jim Jones, who was a preacher in San Francisco, very politically connected.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>News anchor:\u003c/strong> As soon as these pictures from Jonestown cleared our newsroom, everybody, even a lot of hardened news people reacted in horror and disbelief. The word on everybody’s lips was shades of Auschwitz.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> And so the city was reeling. And then just like ten days or so later, shots rang out in city hall. The mayor, George Mosconi, who was a beloved progressive, [was] shot and killed by Dan White, who was a member of the Board of Supervisors. He then walked down the hall, shot and killed Harvey Milk, the first openly gay member of the Board of [Supervisors], and Feinstein found his body.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo:\u003c/strong> There’s, of course, this very well known clip of Acting Mayor Feinstein having to essentially break this news to the public. What do you remember from that footage?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer: \u003c/strong>Every time I see that footage, it sends a chill up and down my spine. And I’ve seen it many times.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>News anchor:\u003c/strong> Both Mayor Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk have been shot and killed.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Crowd:\u003c/strong> [HORRIFIED GASPS FROM CROWD]\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Her self-control, her looking straight out into the middle distance and breaking the news. I mean, nowadays we all find out about news instantaneously on our phones. But the idea that you could have, you know, an assassinated mayor and an assassinated supervisor in the building and no one knew. So, she delivered the news to a press corps and others who were assembled outside the mayor’s office. And so, what really stands out was just her shock, you know, her grief, but also holding it together and being strong in a moment when the wheels were falling off the city.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo:\u003c/strong> Does Feinstein ever kind of open up later in life about what that day was like for her?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> She does. She talked with me and Marisa Lagos on Political Breakdown about it.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Dianne Feinstein:\u003c/strong> It’s still very traumatic for me to look back on candidly. And I would give up anything if they had not happened.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Ironically, hours before the assassinations, Dianne Feinstein had mentioned to people that she was thinking of getting out of politics.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Dianne Feinstein:\u003c/strong> I had run for mayor, and I was defeated. And I was convinced I would never be mayor. My husband had died. I had a daughter. And I just thought enough was enough.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> And Dianne Feinstein herself had been the subject of attempted violence. In 1976, there was a radical anti-capitalist group that planted a bomb outside her house in Pacific Heights. It didn’t go off. She wasn’t hurt. They also shot out her windows in a beach house that she had in Marin. So, she was, you know, no stranger to violence. But I think the level of violence was just too much for so many people in San Francisco to bear. But she held it together.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo:\u003c/strong> So, Dianne Feinstein becomes the mayor in 1978 in the wake of this horrific tragedy. You’ve already mentioned that this was an extremely chaotic time in San Francisco. I mean, what does she inherit as she steps right into the job?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Well, the first thing she has to do is to begin to heal the city, bring the city back together after the assassinations, after Jonestown. And she really focused on the nuts and bolts of city government. One of her big campaigns as mayor early on was to save the cable cars. They needed a lot of repair. They were old. And she said, no, we can’t shut these down. These are an iconic symbol of San Francisco. And she led, you know, a group of businesspeople to raise the money to renovate the cable cars. The other thing I should point out, in terms of taking over as mayor, 1978 was a big year in politics in that voters in November of that year had passed Proposition 13, which was the so-called property tax revolt.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> And so the finances of cities and counties and state government were sort of thrown up into upheaval. And so mayors, including Feinstein, had to deal with this sort of huge disruption in revenue sources. And that was the kind of thing she focused on. It was those, you know — really meat and potatoes, you know, make sure the potholes are filled, make sure the police department has enough staffing and that sort of thing, make sure the buses are running on time. And it was in that environment that we saw the dawn of the AIDS epidemic, which was landed right on her desk.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>News anchor:\u003c/strong> This depression of the immune system can lead to a rare form of cancer, Kaposi’s sarcoma, which shows up as those purple spots. This cancer has a death rate of 80% two years after diagnosis. This is not a benign disease.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo\u003c/strong>: Yeah, let’s talk about that. Tell me more about Dianne Feinstein’s response to the AIDS crisis in San Francisco.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Dianne Feinstein really stepped up during the AIDS epidemic. I mean, it didn’t even have a name at that point. They called it GRID: Gay Related Immune Deficiency. At that point, there were a couple, just a very small number of these mysterious illnesses that had broken out among gay men. It was very troubling. And it, you know, quickly became clear that this was spreading rather fast. And at that time, Ronald Reagan was president. We had a Republican governor, George Deukmejian. And especially the Reagan administration did literally nothing helpful.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> And so it fell to San Francisco and Mayor Feinstein. And from the very beginning, as early as 1981–82, she put money in the city budget to investigate what was happening and put together the infrastructure of what became known as the San Francisco Model.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>P\u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>aul Volberding:\u003c/strong> San Francisco got a lot of credit for the San Francisco model of response to the AIDS epidemic. And really, a lot of that can be traced back to Dianne Feinstein’s leadership.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> People like Paul Volberding, who was a young AIDS doc at San Francisco General Hospital, would go to her and brief her on what was happening.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Paul Volberding:\u003c/strong> We were learning a lot very quickly and she wanted to, and I think she wanted to have policies that reflected the best knowledge at the time. In contrast to some places in the country, she really let that science lead her to her approach to this.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> She came from a medical background. She had been married to a doctor. Her father was a doctor. She was very interested in data. But when others, like Mayor Koch in New York, were doing nothing or not enough, she really, really embraced it and took the lead on putting together the system that got the city through a very, very dark time.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Paul Volberding:\u003c/strong> When we needed money to, you know, hire more doctors to develop more space at San Francisco General Hospital to bring people together, to look at research questions in the community, that support for that seemed to me to be always easy.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> The one big thing that she did that was very controversial is San Francisco had gay bathhouses, and even thought he virus hadn’t been discovered yet, it wasn’t clear what was causing AIDS, there was a sense among public health people that whatever it was was being spread by sexual contact among men, and she wanted to close down the bathhouses, and it became a big mess. Ultimately, she got her way. The bathhouses shut down, which I think many would say was the right thing to do.\u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo:\u003c/strong> What was her relationship with the gay community like when she was mayor?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer: \u003c/strong> Well, you have to, I think, look at it in the context of her time. You know, in the late seventies, there weren’t a lot of openly gay elected officials. You know, Harvey Milk had been shot and killed. It was somewhat risky in many places to even align yourself politically with the gay community. She did that, you know, and so she won support in her early campaigns for supervisor and later, you know, for mayor. However, she wasn’t beloved universally.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>News anchor:\u003c/strong> Feinstein is often criticized by gays for not feeling comfortable with the whole subject of homosexuality. Gays attack her for what they consider her inability to control alleged police harassment of gays.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer: \u003c/strong>She vetoed a piece of legislation that would have created domestic partnerships in San Francisco for same-sex couples. She never rode in the gay Pride parades to this day because I think she’s just so proper.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>News anchor:\u003c/strong> Here, she proclaims Lesbian Gay Freedom Week and boosts the gay parade in which she has never personally participated.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Dianne Feinstein:\u003c/strong> [Unintelligible]\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>S\u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>cott Shafer:\u003c/strong> There was a well-known, civic, gay activist who said once about Dianne Feinstein, she doesn’t care what we do in bed as long as we’re in bed by 11 o’clock. So, I would say it was very mixed. And also, the gay community tends to be a lot more liberal on issues. She was for the death penalty. She was very pro-business. But at the same time, I think looking back, she gets, you know, total credit for how she handled the AIDS epidemic.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo\u003c/strong>: In the end, was she a popular mayor?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Absolutely. I mean, I would say there were people who really disliked Dianne Feinstein. I think there were people who felt she was too conservative, that she was kind of a prude. You know, in a city that is known for kind of outrageousness. But I think her time as mayor has aged well. \u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo:\u003c/strong> How and when does she eventually kind of make the leap from the local to the national stage? We know her now as a senator, but how does that leap happen?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Well, in some ways, 1984. San Francisco hosted the Democratic National Convention, where Walter Mondale nominates Geraldine Ferraro to be the first woman on a major party ticket. And just before the convention, Dianne Feinstein and Geraldine Ferraro are on the cover of \u003cem>Time\u003c/em> magazine. Their photos, or pictures of them are there with the title “Why Not a Woman for Vice President?” So, by then, she was already developing a national profile. Everything changes in 1991, when Clarence Thomas is nominated by President Bush to be on the U.S. Supreme Court and there are allegations of sexual harassment and worse from Anita Hill.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Anita Hill:\u003c/strong> He talked about pornographic materials depicting individuals with large penises or large breasts involved in various sex acts.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> The Judiciary Committee, which held hearings into the confirmation of Thomas and which also talked with and interviewed Anita Hill, was all white males, mostly older, including Joe Biden, who was the chair. And they treated Anita Hill disrespectfully.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Joe Biden:\u003c/strong> It is appropriate to ask Professor Hill anything any member wishes to ask her to plumb the depths of her credibility.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Simpson: \u003c/strong>Why in God’s name would you ever speak to a man like that the rest of your life?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Howell Heflin:\u003c/strong> I’ve got to determine what your motivation might be. Are you a scorned woman? Are you interested in writing abook?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer: \u003c/strong>Clarence Thomas barely got confirmed. I think he got 51 [or 52] votes. And Feinstein and many others saw that as an indication that we needed to get more women into government in Washington.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Dianne Feinstein:\u003c/strong> Tonight, history is being made.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Dianne Feinstein, this Jewish woman from San Francisco becomes senator along with Barbara Boxer, who had been in the House of Representatives from Marin.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Dianne Feinstein:\u003c/strong> We will be the Cagney Lacey one-two punch for the state of California.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>S\u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>cott Shafer:\u003c/strong> And so, 1992 was really the year that she and others broke through in the so-called “Year of the Woman.” The number of women in the Senate went from two to six.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Tripling.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Yeah, tripled. Yes, exactly. It’s much higher now, thankfully. But nonetheless, that was really her big splash, I think, on the national scene.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Dianne Feinstein:\u003c/strong> So, Washington, ready or not, here we come.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo:\u003c/strong> We’re talking about this because, of course, Senator Feinstein is retiring. This marks more than 50 years of public service. A lot of the conversation now, understandably, is about her time as a U.S. senator. But when you look back at her time in San Francisco in the ’70s and ’80s, what stands out to you the most? And what do you want to make sure people don’t forget as they think about her long career?\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> Dianne Feinstein broke glass ceilings. She was a pioneer. She went places that no other woman had. She opened the door to a lot of other women running for office. She was somebody who steadied the ship at a time when the city was in crisis. She guided the city through a terrible, almost unimaginable — today —AIDS epidemic. HIV AIDS was a death sentence for everyone who got it at that time. And she got the city through that. She managed to hold the city together. And someone who was, you know, very competent, not always beloved, not always in line with the liberal values of the city, but someone who tried to do the right thing and broke a lot of glass ceilings along the way.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/strong>Scott, thanks so much.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Scott Shafer:\u003c/strong> You’re welcome.\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv>\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\u003cstrong>Alan Montecillo:\u003c/strong> That was Scott Shafer, senior editor of KQED’s California Politics and Government Desk. This conversation was cut and edited by producer Maria Esquinca. I added the music and the tape. The audio you heard in this episode was courtesy of San Francisco State’s Bay Area TV Archive, KQED archives and C-SPAN. If you haven’t yet, please consider filling out our listener survey. It takes just eight minutes and it’s a great chance to tell us directly what you like about the show and what you want to hear more of. The Bay is a production of KQED in San Francisco. I’m Alan Montecillo in for Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Talk to you next time.\u003c/div>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"c-message_kit__blocks c-message_kit__blocks--rich_text\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"c-message__message_blocks c-message__message_blocks--rich_text\" data-qa=\"message-text\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-block_kit_renderer\" data-qa=\"block-kit-renderer\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-block_kit_renderer__block_wrapper p-block_kit_renderer__block_wrapper--first\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-rich_text_block\" dir=\"auto\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-rich_text_section\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"c-message__reply_bar c-message_kit__thread_replies\" role=\"presentation\" data-qa=\"reply_bar\" data-stringify-ignore=\"true\">\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv role=\"presentation\" data-qa=\"reply_bar\" data-stringify-ignore=\"true\">\u003c/div>\n\u003cp dir=\"ltr\">Sea level rise threatens communities along the Bay and some iconic cultural heritage sites along the San Francisco shoreline.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp dir=\"ltr\">So when the water comes for iconic sites like San Francisco’s Ferry Building, how do we save it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC4567510341&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp dir=\"ltr\">\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli dir=\"ltr\">\n\u003cp dir=\"ltr\" role=\"presentation\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/series/1200697917/protecting-cultural-heritage-in-a-warming-world\">NPR: Protecting Cultural Heritage in a Warming World\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. So the San Francisco Ferry building is a staple of my commute. When I’m on my way home, I love watching the building get bigger and bigger as my bus goes down Market Street, and when I’m inside waiting for the ferry, I like to look up at the tall ceilings. It’s buildings like this that put San Francisco’s waterfront on the National Register of Historic Places. But the future of the waterfront isn’t secure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>The state estimates the water could rise roughly up to two and a half feet above its current level by 2060 and potentially up to seven feet by the turn of the century, which is extraordinary to think about.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>San Francisco is considering lifting the ferry building by seven feet to save it from the sea. Today, a conversation with NPR culture correspondent Chloe Veltman about saving San Francisco’s ferry building and how we talk about protecting cultural heritage in a warming world. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>In 2016, the National Trust for Historic Preservation put a whole chunk of the city’s urban shoreline on this list of the US’s most endangered historic places.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Chloe Veltman is a culture correspondent for NPR who’s based in San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>That stretch is focused on the Embarcadero area and encompasses all sorts of buildings. Really, it’s every historic building along the San Francisco waterfront, including those at Fisherman’s Wharf and all the way down to Bayview Hunters Point. The state estimates the water could rise roughly up to two and a half feet above its current level by 2060. And potentially up to seven feet by the turn of the century, which is extraordinary to think about.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elaine Forbes: \u003c/strong>The the whole issue of climate change and historic preservation intersects right at the waterfront.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Elaine Forbes, she’s the executive director of the Port of San Francisco. And so her agency manages a seven and a half mile stretch of the city’s bay facing waterfront.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elaine Forbes: \u003c/strong>So we know we have a now problem. I would say it’s clear by mid-century we need to have had intervention.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>So she’s very much at the center of trying to figure out what to do about rising sea levels and, of course, the perpetual threat of earthquakes on the waterfront in San Francisco. Forgive me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elaine Forbes: \u003c/strong>Let’s drill in talk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Let’s take a walk. Why not? It’s kind of warm that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elaine Forbes: \u003c/strong>It’s really warm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Well, she took me along the waterfront and showed me some interesting sites. There are a couple of areas not far from the ferry building that have already been raised up, actually.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elaine Forbes: \u003c/strong>And if you look at the height of the deck for the agricultural building compared to the ferry terminal, you can see the story of preparing for climate change right in front of you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>It’s so interesting. If you look, you’ll see the AG building is separated from the ferry building. There’s a channel of water around it and it’s it’s lower. It’s like two or three feet lower than the new raised up ferry gate. It’s really unnerving when someone points out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elaine Forbes: \u003c/strong>I think that’s that’s true for a lot of the public in terms of understanding what we’re facing and what it looks like on the ground, because it can be sort of conceptually confusing until you see it in the built form, like, oh, it’s very obvious what they’re facing. Here you also see.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>I go there all the time and I’ve never really realized what was going on until she showed me this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elaine Forbes: \u003c/strong>Thing. Here you also see crumbling infrastructure, seismic vulnerability, sea level rise risk. Beautiful historic facility.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So what’s going to do you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, that’s so interesting because it sounds like the city is already taking action. How are they talking about what to do about the ferry building?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Well, they have a whole plan that they’re developing and it’s a huge plan. And it isn’t just about the ferry building and it isn’t just about historic landmarks. Right. But they haven’t yet said exactly what they’re going to do. They’re still in the planning phase. But this federal funding and this local tax dollars, for example, in November 2018, voters in San Francisco supported Proposition eight, which is a San Francisco bond initiative, and it provided $425 million to upgrade and repair a portion of the seawall. They do need to think about how to physically move some of those historic structures, like, for example, the ferry building.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>They’re also talking about beefing up the emergency response systems. Of course, the seawall is part of that and protecting natural habitats. We’re looking at billions of dollars and they are doing a lot of work to engage the community. They’ve done a lot of community walks, a lot of meetings. People are able to ask questions. This has been going on for a few years now. And the city the Port Authority’s saying that this feedback is going to help inform its draft plan for saving the city’s shoreline, but they’re not going to release that plan. They don’t think, until early next year, they tell me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How important is it to Elaine that the ferry building be saved along with the rest of the shoreline?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>You know, we spoke about the ferry building and we focused on the ferry building, in part because it is such an iconic structure and because saving it is potentially going to require taking really drastic action. I mean, can you imagine what it might take to raise this massive building with its big clock tower up potentially by seven feet?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elaine Forbes: \u003c/strong>The ferry building is is one of the city’s most important historic facilities. And it’s iconic. You really can’t imagine a book, a novel, a movie, anything of importance about San Francisco without an image of the ferry building.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Yeah, she does care about it. You know, and because they’ve heard a lot of a lot from the community that that people want that building to be safe, probably because there is a sense of attachment to it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elaine Forbes: \u003c/strong>We’ve heard loud and clear everywhere it’s to be saved.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>It sounds like Elaine is very invested in making sure the shoreline in San Francisco is protected. And I know you walked around and asked people about how they feel about saving the ferry building in particular. How would you describe the range of thoughts people had about this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Well, I spoke to several people who feel that all of San Francisco is important. I mean, locals who’ve grown up in the city their entire lives who would like, in a sense, the city, not to discriminate, you know, one building versus another building, which you might say your full name.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dakari Tillery: \u003c/strong>Yes, I’m Dakari Tillery.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Dakari is a security guard at the ferry building. I think he’s in his twenties and he grew up in the Western addition Fillmore neighborhood.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dakari Tillery: \u003c/strong>Everything that was kind of meaningful to me growing up has been like tore down or reconstructed or pushed out or whatever the case is.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>I caught him on a break. He was sitting on a bench looking out at the water behind the ferry building. Even though he doesn’t live on the waterfront. He definitely wants the city to think about all the parts of the city. He wants his whole city saved.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dakari Tillery: \u003c/strong>These are places that people go to every day. People fly from other countries all over the place to come over and see. So that would be a waste of a beautiful city or a beautiful landmark just because we can get it together or whatever the case is.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>I also spoke with somebody who isn’t so interested in specifically seeing the ferry building saved from rising sea levels.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sanaz Tahernia: \u003c/strong>Oh, I mean, I think community structures are way more important.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Her name is Sanaz Tahernia, and she lives in one of the waterfront neighborhoods in San Francisco near the ball park. I met with her as I was walking across the plaza in front of the ferry building, and we stopped to have a quick chat while we were looking up at the clock tower, the.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sanaz Tahernia: \u003c/strong>Ferry building, if you want to ride it seven feet, that’s going to save the ferry building. But what’s going to happen to the rest of the city? There’s people that live all along the water. I mean, the community is what makes San Francisco not these buildings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Yeah. And.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>One question I feel like this story raises is this question of like, what makes something worth saving in the face of climate change? And I feel like that’s kind of a big question Chloe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Yeah, it’s a massive question, Ericka, And it’s one that people in charge of managing what we call cultural heritage spaces have to grapple with. There are ways you go about thinking about this complex problem. It’s sort of a balancing act. And so you can sort of think of it like a Venn diagram. So one of the circles is what in your community is most meaningful, most culturally significant? That’s in one circle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>The second circle is what’s the most feasible thing Like, what do you actually have the resources to do? That’s the second circle. And then the third circle is about the level of risk. How likely is this building or this other piece of cultural heritage going to be underwater? So you’re thinking about all these things, and ideally, the things that you decide to save need to be in the middle of that Venn diagram, you know? So that’s I mean, that’s one way that a lot of the experts are thinking about this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marcy Rockman: \u003c/strong>Things that have to do with heritage are still seen as being sort of a luxury.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Marcy Rockman is one of this country’s foremost experts on climate change and cultural heritage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marcy Rockman: \u003c/strong>There’s something that’s nice to have, but they’re not seen as essential.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>She feels very strongly that cultural heritage is not just about old buildings with plaques on them, right? Every community has cultural heritage, and it’s really important that cities and municipalities that are trying to figure out their way through this problem about what to save and what to let go of. Consult locals, talk to communities, listen. Listen to what they have to say about what really matters to them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marcy Rockman: \u003c/strong>So love to see is more support for all communities to help figure out what matters about this place, what is happening to it? What are the parts you most want to carry forward? And then how do we do that? And where heritage is often most fatal is where it is lived, lived and used.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>The story that you did on the Ferry Building is part of a series from NPR about the threat that climate change poses to cultural heritage sites. Why do you think this is important to talk about?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Yeah, it’s really important, Ericka, because a lot of the conversation, both in politics and the media about climate change, has traditionally focused on the science. But the problem is that data can be really hard for most people to wrap their heads around. And it’s only when you have these extreme weather events and then they threaten the things that we love, our cultural heritage, the things that we hold most dear to us. It could be, you know, the paintings that your kids made at school in your own home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>I mean, that can be cultural heritage, right? As well as the local old pub in my my neighborhood growing up in England, you know. It’s only when you see terrible fires and floods and other extreme weather impact those things, that climate change starts to feel really tangible. Really, my series for NPR is exploring this connection between the things that we value in the world and how those are impacted by the increasing amount of devastating floods, wildfires and extreme weather events.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Chloe, I really appreciate you sharing your reporting with us. 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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cdiv class=\"c-message_kit__blocks c-message_kit__blocks--rich_text\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"c-message__message_blocks c-message__message_blocks--rich_text\" data-qa=\"message-text\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-block_kit_renderer\" data-qa=\"block-kit-renderer\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-block_kit_renderer__block_wrapper p-block_kit_renderer__block_wrapper--first\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-rich_text_block\" dir=\"auto\">\n\u003cdiv class=\"p-rich_text_section\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv class=\"c-message__reply_bar c-message_kit__thread_replies\" role=\"presentation\" data-qa=\"reply_bar\" data-stringify-ignore=\"true\">\u003c/div>\n\u003cdiv role=\"presentation\" data-qa=\"reply_bar\" data-stringify-ignore=\"true\">\u003c/div>\n\u003cp dir=\"ltr\">Sea level rise threatens communities along the Bay and some iconic cultural heritage sites along the San Francisco shoreline.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp dir=\"ltr\">So when the water comes for iconic sites like San Francisco’s Ferry Building, how do we save it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cdiv class=\"card card--enclosed grey\">\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC4567510341&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\n\u003cp dir=\"ltr\">\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli dir=\"ltr\">\n\u003cp dir=\"ltr\" role=\"presentation\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/series/1200697917/protecting-cultural-heritage-in-a-warming-world\">NPR: Protecting Cultural Heritage in a Warming World\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to The Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. So the San Francisco Ferry building is a staple of my commute. When I’m on my way home, I love watching the building get bigger and bigger as my bus goes down Market Street, and when I’m inside waiting for the ferry, I like to look up at the tall ceilings. It’s buildings like this that put San Francisco’s waterfront on the National Register of Historic Places. But the future of the waterfront isn’t secure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>The state estimates the water could rise roughly up to two and a half feet above its current level by 2060 and potentially up to seven feet by the turn of the century, which is extraordinary to think about.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>San Francisco is considering lifting the ferry building by seven feet to save it from the sea. Today, a conversation with NPR culture correspondent Chloe Veltman about saving San Francisco’s ferry building and how we talk about protecting cultural heritage in a warming world. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>In 2016, the National Trust for Historic Preservation put a whole chunk of the city’s urban shoreline on this list of the US’s most endangered historic places.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Chloe Veltman is a culture correspondent for NPR who’s based in San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>That stretch is focused on the Embarcadero area and encompasses all sorts of buildings. Really, it’s every historic building along the San Francisco waterfront, including those at Fisherman’s Wharf and all the way down to Bayview Hunters Point. The state estimates the water could rise roughly up to two and a half feet above its current level by 2060. And potentially up to seven feet by the turn of the century, which is extraordinary to think about.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elaine Forbes: \u003c/strong>The the whole issue of climate change and historic preservation intersects right at the waterfront.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Elaine Forbes, she’s the executive director of the Port of San Francisco. And so her agency manages a seven and a half mile stretch of the city’s bay facing waterfront.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elaine Forbes: \u003c/strong>So we know we have a now problem. I would say it’s clear by mid-century we need to have had intervention.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>So she’s very much at the center of trying to figure out what to do about rising sea levels and, of course, the perpetual threat of earthquakes on the waterfront in San Francisco. Forgive me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elaine Forbes: \u003c/strong>Let’s drill in talk.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Let’s take a walk. Why not? It’s kind of warm that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elaine Forbes: \u003c/strong>It’s really warm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Well, she took me along the waterfront and showed me some interesting sites. There are a couple of areas not far from the ferry building that have already been raised up, actually.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elaine Forbes: \u003c/strong>And if you look at the height of the deck for the agricultural building compared to the ferry terminal, you can see the story of preparing for climate change right in front of you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>It’s so interesting. If you look, you’ll see the AG building is separated from the ferry building. There’s a channel of water around it and it’s it’s lower. It’s like two or three feet lower than the new raised up ferry gate. It’s really unnerving when someone points out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elaine Forbes: \u003c/strong>I think that’s that’s true for a lot of the public in terms of understanding what we’re facing and what it looks like on the ground, because it can be sort of conceptually confusing until you see it in the built form, like, oh, it’s very obvious what they’re facing. Here you also see.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>I go there all the time and I’ve never really realized what was going on until she showed me this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elaine Forbes: \u003c/strong>Thing. Here you also see crumbling infrastructure, seismic vulnerability, sea level rise risk. Beautiful historic facility.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So what’s going to do you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, that’s so interesting because it sounds like the city is already taking action. How are they talking about what to do about the ferry building?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Well, they have a whole plan that they’re developing and it’s a huge plan. And it isn’t just about the ferry building and it isn’t just about historic landmarks. Right. But they haven’t yet said exactly what they’re going to do. They’re still in the planning phase. But this federal funding and this local tax dollars, for example, in November 2018, voters in San Francisco supported Proposition eight, which is a San Francisco bond initiative, and it provided $425 million to upgrade and repair a portion of the seawall. They do need to think about how to physically move some of those historic structures, like, for example, the ferry building.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>They’re also talking about beefing up the emergency response systems. Of course, the seawall is part of that and protecting natural habitats. We’re looking at billions of dollars and they are doing a lot of work to engage the community. They’ve done a lot of community walks, a lot of meetings. People are able to ask questions. This has been going on for a few years now. And the city the Port Authority’s saying that this feedback is going to help inform its draft plan for saving the city’s shoreline, but they’re not going to release that plan. They don’t think, until early next year, they tell me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How important is it to Elaine that the ferry building be saved along with the rest of the shoreline?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>You know, we spoke about the ferry building and we focused on the ferry building, in part because it is such an iconic structure and because saving it is potentially going to require taking really drastic action. I mean, can you imagine what it might take to raise this massive building with its big clock tower up potentially by seven feet?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elaine Forbes: \u003c/strong>The ferry building is is one of the city’s most important historic facilities. And it’s iconic. You really can’t imagine a book, a novel, a movie, anything of importance about San Francisco without an image of the ferry building.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Yeah, she does care about it. You know, and because they’ve heard a lot of a lot from the community that that people want that building to be safe, probably because there is a sense of attachment to it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Elaine Forbes: \u003c/strong>We’ve heard loud and clear everywhere it’s to be saved.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>It sounds like Elaine is very invested in making sure the shoreline in San Francisco is protected. And I know you walked around and asked people about how they feel about saving the ferry building in particular. How would you describe the range of thoughts people had about this?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Well, I spoke to several people who feel that all of San Francisco is important. I mean, locals who’ve grown up in the city their entire lives who would like, in a sense, the city, not to discriminate, you know, one building versus another building, which you might say your full name.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dakari Tillery: \u003c/strong>Yes, I’m Dakari Tillery.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Dakari is a security guard at the ferry building. I think he’s in his twenties and he grew up in the Western addition Fillmore neighborhood.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dakari Tillery: \u003c/strong>Everything that was kind of meaningful to me growing up has been like tore down or reconstructed or pushed out or whatever the case is.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>I caught him on a break. He was sitting on a bench looking out at the water behind the ferry building. Even though he doesn’t live on the waterfront. He definitely wants the city to think about all the parts of the city. He wants his whole city saved.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Dakari Tillery: \u003c/strong>These are places that people go to every day. People fly from other countries all over the place to come over and see. So that would be a waste of a beautiful city or a beautiful landmark just because we can get it together or whatever the case is.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>I also spoke with somebody who isn’t so interested in specifically seeing the ferry building saved from rising sea levels.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sanaz Tahernia: \u003c/strong>Oh, I mean, I think community structures are way more important.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Her name is Sanaz Tahernia, and she lives in one of the waterfront neighborhoods in San Francisco near the ball park. I met with her as I was walking across the plaza in front of the ferry building, and we stopped to have a quick chat while we were looking up at the clock tower, the.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Sanaz Tahernia: \u003c/strong>Ferry building, if you want to ride it seven feet, that’s going to save the ferry building. But what’s going to happen to the rest of the city? There’s people that live all along the water. I mean, the community is what makes San Francisco not these buildings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Yeah. And.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>One question I feel like this story raises is this question of like, what makes something worth saving in the face of climate change? And I feel like that’s kind of a big question Chloe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Yeah, it’s a massive question, Ericka, And it’s one that people in charge of managing what we call cultural heritage spaces have to grapple with. There are ways you go about thinking about this complex problem. It’s sort of a balancing act. And so you can sort of think of it like a Venn diagram. So one of the circles is what in your community is most meaningful, most culturally significant? That’s in one circle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>The second circle is what’s the most feasible thing Like, what do you actually have the resources to do? That’s the second circle. And then the third circle is about the level of risk. How likely is this building or this other piece of cultural heritage going to be underwater? So you’re thinking about all these things, and ideally, the things that you decide to save need to be in the middle of that Venn diagram, you know? So that’s I mean, that’s one way that a lot of the experts are thinking about this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marcy Rockman: \u003c/strong>Things that have to do with heritage are still seen as being sort of a luxury.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Marcy Rockman is one of this country’s foremost experts on climate change and cultural heritage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marcy Rockman: \u003c/strong>There’s something that’s nice to have, but they’re not seen as essential.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>She feels very strongly that cultural heritage is not just about old buildings with plaques on them, right? Every community has cultural heritage, and it’s really important that cities and municipalities that are trying to figure out their way through this problem about what to save and what to let go of. Consult locals, talk to communities, listen. Listen to what they have to say about what really matters to them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Marcy Rockman: \u003c/strong>So love to see is more support for all communities to help figure out what matters about this place, what is happening to it? What are the parts you most want to carry forward? And then how do we do that? And where heritage is often most fatal is where it is lived, lived and used.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>The story that you did on the Ferry Building is part of a series from NPR about the threat that climate change poses to cultural heritage sites. Why do you think this is important to talk about?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>Yeah, it’s really important, Ericka, because a lot of the conversation, both in politics and the media about climate change, has traditionally focused on the science. But the problem is that data can be really hard for most people to wrap their heads around. And it’s only when you have these extreme weather events and then they threaten the things that we love, our cultural heritage, the things that we hold most dear to us. It could be, you know, the paintings that your kids made at school in your own home.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>I mean, that can be cultural heritage, right? As well as the local old pub in my my neighborhood growing up in England, you know. It’s only when you see terrible fires and floods and other extreme weather impact those things, that climate change starts to feel really tangible. Really, my series for NPR is exploring this connection between the things that we value in the world and how those are impacted by the increasing amount of devastating floods, wildfires and extreme weather events.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Chloe, I really appreciate you sharing your reporting with us. Thank you so much.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Chloe Veltman: \u003c/strong>It’s a pleasure. Thanks, Ericka.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Chloe Veltman, a culture correspondent for NPR who’s based in San Francisco. This 23 minute conversation with Chloe was cut down and edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. Producer María Esquinca scored this episode and added all the tape. Shoutout as well to the rest of our podcast team here at KQED, that’s Jen Chien, our director of podcasts, Katie Sprenger, our podcast operations manager, Cesar Saldana, our engagement producer, and Holly Kernan, our chief content officer. The Bay is a production of member supported KQED. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, thank you for listening to the Bay. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"title": "A New Home for La Pulga?",
"headTitle": "A New Home for La Pulga? | KQED",
"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">San Jose city leaders are looking for a new site for the nearly 500 vendors at the Berryessa Flea Market, which will be moved to make way for the new Berryessa BART Urban Village. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Singleton Road landfill has risen to the top. Is an abandoned landfill the right place for a new flea market?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC6882371058&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Links: \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11960306/why-the-future-of-san-joses-flea-market-could-be-an-abandoned-landfill\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why the Future of San José’s Flea Market Could Be an Abandoned Landfill\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to the Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. The nearly 500 small business owners who make up San Jose’s iconic Berryessa flea market are trying to find a new home. They’re making way for the new Berryessa BART urban village, the kind of thing that everyone says the Bay Area needs more of if we want to address our region’s housing crisis. And now, the city of San jose says it has an idea for where to put the market; an abandoned landfill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It might also present really the best chance to keep this landmark alive. So what kind of emphasis is this for the city moving forward?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Today, the struggle to find a new home for La Pulga and why a landfill has risen to the top.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Guy, can you just remind us, where are we at right now in the sort of long saga of La Pulga? Like, where do things stand right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Right now, vendors at the San Jose Berryessa flea market are dealing with kind of an unknown closure date.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Guy Marzorati is a political correspondent for KQED. He also produces the Political Breakdown podcast. He’s based in San Jose.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It could come as soon as 2025. So what’s happening right now is kind of this scramble to find a new site. The flea market is still operating, but it does have this uncertain future. This goes back a number of years. The owners of the flea market have had a desire to redevelop the current site housing, retail around transit because BART is now in North San Jose at various and big picture like this is kind of what the city is pushing for. They want that kind of dense housing development near transit. But the flip side of that is that development, if it happens, would mean the end of the flea market as we know it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And this would be a huge blow to San Jose, both culturally but also economically. I mean, this if you take the flea market kind of as a whole, it would be a top 50 employer in the city. It is the densest concentration of small businesses that we have in the South Bay. So it’s an incredibly stressful time for a lot of vendors. For most of them, this is a primary source of income. So are, you know, trying to find this new site with the city. I will say the city was able to extract some concessions from the owner of the flea market, most notably putting money in a pot that will be used for finding a new site.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And how much money was put in that pot to help them find a new site?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>The owners, the flea market and the city are putting a $7.5 million into this fund that’s aimed at helping vendors, both when the market closes just financially, but also putting staff time and hiring consultants to identify a new site potentially.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean Guy, La Pulga is this like very unique, sprawling market. We’re talking about 460 vendors. What are some of the things that the city needs to consider as it looks for a new location for the market? I mean, it sounds really hard to do that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, it’s really hard. I mean, look, in the Bay Area, land is incredibly expensive. And for a flea market of this size, you’re going to need a large piece of land. Most of the prime real estate, you know, conveniently located parcels were grabbed up years ago, let alone one of the size the, you know, dozens and dozens of acres you need for a site like this. And that’s how you get to a situation where the city of San Jose is saying the best place that we have for this landmark is a landfill. So there were five ideas brought forward by the consultant as like most viable for a future site.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>There was the Santa Clara County Fairgrounds. There was the former Sears Department store at the Eastridge Mall, which would be an indoor site. There was a small piece of land that could potentially exist at various in a future development. Then there was this idea of like just having vendors set up shop in vacant storefronts throughout the city. And then there was the former landfill on Singleton Road, and that has really risen to the top of the list in the mind of city officials.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Okay. So tell us about this landfill. Where is it? Exactly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So it’s pretty centrally located right in the middle of San Jose is right off of Capital Expressway. It’s not far from Highway one, two, one, and it’s 90 acres, so there’s plenty of room there for vendors, plenty of room there for parking. And so it really fits a lot of the criteria that the city would be looking for in a potential new site.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And what is there or I guess what used to be there?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So it’s still right in the Seven Trees neighborhood. So there’s folks who are living all around this landfill back in the sixties and seventies. It was home to private and municipal dumps, those largely closed by the late seventies. And since then, this huge piece of land has just been sitting vacant smack in the middle of San Jose.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, what does the landfill look like now, and what has the city tried to do with it in the past?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Right now, the landfill just looks like a massive abandoned field. It’s really just these flare stacks, which kind of look like big pipes that let you know that this used to be a landfill. They’re still standing. They’re burning off methane, But there’s not much going on there now. I mean, some city inspectors actually found roosters at the landfill last year being raised for cockfighting. But there’s fences all around it. So public access is pretty limited. And their security there now, pretty much ever since the landfill closed in the late seventies, there have been ideas on what to do with it, to turn it into a golf course, to use the methane releases to create a power plant. There was even a local ballot measure in San Jose back in 2000 to fund the sports complex here, but none of those ideas came to fruition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Why has this landfill kind of risen to the top of the list?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I think it breaks down to me for three reasons. Number one, the city owns this land. Like, that’s a huge piece of this because land is so expensive in the area. Finding a site where the city already owns clears out a huge amount of costs and just time that it would take to acquire a site. The second thing is the size. You’re talking about a 65 acre flea market as it exists currently. The Singleton landfills 90 acres. So it has room to basically house all the vendors that are at the flea market today, plus parking. And then the third is location.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nancy Klein: \u003c/strong>Which carries a lot of traffic. It’s near a lot of other things.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I talked to Nancy Klein, who’s the city’s director of economic development, cultural affairs. She pointed to the location piece of this as, look, we know a lot of people that go to LA, although currently are coming from all over the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nancy Klein: \u003c/strong>It has a similar profile in terms of several different transportation ways. So that makes it positive. It’s not as in some of the other sites which are quite a distance away on a road that makes would be terrible traffic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>She points to Singleton Road Landfill as having that advantage because it’s right off of 101. It’s near Capital Expressway. You have those major arteries that wouldn’t exist if you’d like, you know, stuck this in some open land in Morgan Hill or something.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean, that makes sense to me. It’s city owned land. It’s big enough. It’s near some really important roadways. What do vendors think of this idea?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>All along really the top priority I’ve heard from vendors both on this advisory group that’s kind of leading this process. And also folks who aren’t is keeping the market together. They know that there’s just this natural cross-pollination of businesses at La Pulga. You know, maybe you go to the market, you’re looking for like home goods or something. But while you’re there, your kids are with you. You buy them some candy, you buy them Agua Fresca. Like, there’s just this natural cross-currents that happens between businesses that is so important to keeping the market thriving.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And then if you split up the vendors into smaller locations all over the city, you might not get that Singleton would accomplish that. There’d be this opportunity like, we can keep the market together, but vendors have a lot of questions left to be answered about the site and also just about the process and timeline going forward. And so that’s really been at play in these meetings of the flea market vendor advisory group. They’ve met three times so far.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nancy Klein: \u003c/strong>Around because we are a big community. We are…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>So I talked to Erika Barajas. She’s been a vendor at the market for years selling clothing. And her real feeling was like, yes, maybe, you know, Singleton has a lot of promise, but she really wants the city to commit to stepping up its support during this time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Erika Barajas: \u003c/strong>So I want to hear from the city on our next meeting that if we decide to go with them, whether are going to be committed to us and guarantee timely free meals and also moving expenses and make sure that that relocation, it’s good for all the vendors and also the sellers do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Even if the Singleton Road landfill works out, there is going to be a lot of cost for preparing the site, but also a lot of costs on the vendors. You know, they will have to relocate after years and in various to this new market, there might be like a transitional time where they’re not able to sell at either place, kind of like a, you know, in-between time. And Erika’s real emphasis was like, we want commitments from the city to support us during that time because there’s just so much uncertainty ahead with this potential transition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Erika Barajas: \u003c/strong>At the end of the day, City makes a lot of money on revenue from the sales, from the expenses that we pay from for income taxes. It will be helpful for all of us because we need each other. We are community and we need each other. Detainees is to help us and we will help the city.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Okay, So this landfill has really risen to the top as it sounds like the most viable option so far. But is this a good idea? I’m curious what residents nearby the landfill think.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>They mostly were just like, we have a lot of questions about this. And again, there was this thinking of like, we’ve heard it all before. We’ve heard they’re going to develop Singleton Road Landfill. We’ll believe it when we see it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lilia Gaspar: \u003c/strong>For the longest time, there was a proposal, but again, nothing has passed because this landfill is full of, you know, topics.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I talked to Lillia Gasper. She’s actually lived right next to the landfill almost her entire life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lilia Gaspar: \u003c/strong>Cherry Orchard We’re over here on land where a lunch on waste that used to be all cherry orchards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>She just kind of painted this a picture of someone who’s lived there for a long time. And I think, you know, her concerns and concerns of other residents I talked to largely had to do with, like traffic. Right. How is this all going to work if you have thousands of people coming in to shop in their neighborhood at the potential future flea market?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lilia Gaspar: \u003c/strong>We already have a big issue right now of the jungle of the homeless encampment. It will just create more problems on top of it to poorer neighborhoods.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And I think they also expressed just feeling like they had needs already in their neighborhood, that they felt that the city hadn’t done a great job of addressing, namely, in their minds, homeless encampments and blight and a feeling like, oh, there’s going to be focus on the flea market. What about the existing problems that we have in our neighborhoods? So we’ve talked a lot about like all that the city has to address on the vendor side of things to make this potential move happen. There’s a whole nother piece of this about talking to the neighbors who currently live around the Singleton Road Landfill and making them feel like this is a good idea, a good addition for their neighborhood as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I mean, also, this is an abandoned landfill, which makes me wonder, is it safe? I mean, if people are going to be working there all day and walking around and I don’t know, what do experts say about that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>You know, the landfill has been closed for decades, but there’s still actively methane being released from this site.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriel Filippelli: \u003c/strong>In general, this kind of reuse using the surface of the landfill for another activity is valuable. And it’s done in a lot of other places and it can can be safe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I talked to Gabriel Filippelli. He’s executive director of the Indiana University Environmental Resilience Institute. He’s also a landfill expert. This is the kind of stuff he studies often. And he said, look like, you know, it can happen. This kind of reuse for former landfills is viable. But he says there’s still questions that will have to be answered and work that will have to be done in advance of this potential transformation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriel Filippelli: \u003c/strong>You always have to remember that you are sitting on a pile of material that has the potential to release toxins. So if you keep monitoring it, you have to keep checking it. And of course, if there’s any seismic disruption or digging or trenching, you have to pay extra special care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>We live in an area with earthquakes. Bad things could happen to the landfill if there’s an earthquake and it’s not there’s not structural integrity. So there’s a lot of boxes that would have to be checked. But generally, Philip Kelley said this is the kind of thing, this kind of reuse that can be done.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, looking ahead, guy, how long do people have to find this site? What’s the timeline here?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So under the agreement that the city reached with the owners of the current flea market, they have to give a one year notice for when they want to close the market and evict the vendors. So the earliest date when those evictions could happen is January 1st of 2025. But it could close a lot later than that. Right. The owners of the market right now haven’t found someone to do this massive development at the burial site. That could go on for years. Who knows? Given the current state of commercial real estate. So it’s kind of a mix of like, okay, this is far in the future. But also we don’t want to be complacent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Wherever it is, La Pulga ends up. What’s at stake with this decision to find a new site? I mean, like it seems really important that the city finds a space to like both build housing near transit, which we all know needs to happen in the Bay Area, but also find a new place for these vendors who’ve been there for many, many years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I mean, think about all the attention that the Westfield Mall closure got in San Francisco, right? That was like 50 stores. This is almost 500. You know, this is a would be a massive displacement of small businesses, many of whom are immigrants. There’s the economic component to this. There’s like this is a landmark within the city. I think right now we see where is the commitment of the city government. We know budget times are tight in San Jose. We just had this big fight over city employee pay that we talked about recently on the bay. So this move to Singleton landfill, potentially, it’s not going to be cheap. There’s going to have to be the mitigation and preparing the site for this. So it’s going to take more money from the city government to make this happen. But it might also present really the best chance to keep this landmark alive. So what kind of emphasis is this for the city moving forward?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah, that’s an interesting way to think about it. And I guess it’s like, who is the future of San Jose for? Like who do we make room for?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, and this is, you know, I think there can be, like, a thinking of the flea market as like, oh, this is kind of just like a side hustle thing that people do. For about 75% of the vendors, this is their primary source of income. So this is just like this is like an economic cliff that’s staring in the face of hundreds of vendors here. So San Jose has these goals of building, you know, dense housing near transit. Can you accomplish that while also maintaining your goal of supporting small businesses, supporting like the cultural vitality that makes San Jose a dope place to live and be like those two goals? I’m sure the city has both of those. This is a real test of can they achieve both at the same time?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Thank you so much, Guy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Absolutely. My pleasure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Guy Marzorati, a political correspondent for KQED and producer of the Political Breakdown podcast, which you can find wherever you found the bay. Guy is based in San Jose. This 25 minute conversation with Guy was cut down and edited by producer María Esquinca. It was produced and scored by me. Also, if you like the Bay, prove it. Leave us a rating on Apple Podcasts. It helps other people to find our show. The Bay is a production of KQED in San Francisco. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"excerpt": "San Jose city leaders are looking for a new site for the nearly 500 vendors at the Berryessa Flea Market, The Singleton Road landfill has risen to the top. Is an abandoned landfill the right place for a new flea market?",
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"description": "San Jose city leaders are looking for a new site for the nearly 500 vendors at the Berryessa Flea Market, The Singleton Road landfill has risen to the top. Is an abandoned landfill the right place for a new flea market?",
"title": "A New Home for La Pulga? | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">View the full episode transcript.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">San Jose city leaders are looking for a new site for the nearly 500 vendors at the Berryessa Flea Market, which will be moved to make way for the new Berryessa BART Urban Village. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Singleton Road landfill has risen to the top. Is an abandoned landfill the right place for a new flea market?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC6882371058&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Links: \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11960306/why-the-future-of-san-joses-flea-market-could-be-an-abandoned-landfill\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why the Future of San José’s Flea Market Could Be an Abandoned Landfill\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra and welcome to the Bay. Local news to keep you rooted. The nearly 500 small business owners who make up San Jose’s iconic Berryessa flea market are trying to find a new home. They’re making way for the new Berryessa BART urban village, the kind of thing that everyone says the Bay Area needs more of if we want to address our region’s housing crisis. And now, the city of San jose says it has an idea for where to put the market; an abandoned landfill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It might also present really the best chance to keep this landmark alive. So what kind of emphasis is this for the city moving forward?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Today, the struggle to find a new home for La Pulga and why a landfill has risen to the top.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Guy, can you just remind us, where are we at right now in the sort of long saga of La Pulga? Like, where do things stand right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Right now, vendors at the San Jose Berryessa flea market are dealing with kind of an unknown closure date.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Guy Marzorati is a political correspondent for KQED. He also produces the Political Breakdown podcast. He’s based in San Jose.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>It could come as soon as 2025. So what’s happening right now is kind of this scramble to find a new site. The flea market is still operating, but it does have this uncertain future. This goes back a number of years. The owners of the flea market have had a desire to redevelop the current site housing, retail around transit because BART is now in North San Jose at various and big picture like this is kind of what the city is pushing for. They want that kind of dense housing development near transit. But the flip side of that is that development, if it happens, would mean the end of the flea market as we know it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And this would be a huge blow to San Jose, both culturally but also economically. I mean, this if you take the flea market kind of as a whole, it would be a top 50 employer in the city. It is the densest concentration of small businesses that we have in the South Bay. So it’s an incredibly stressful time for a lot of vendors. For most of them, this is a primary source of income. So are, you know, trying to find this new site with the city. I will say the city was able to extract some concessions from the owner of the flea market, most notably putting money in a pot that will be used for finding a new site.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And how much money was put in that pot to help them find a new site?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>The owners, the flea market and the city are putting a $7.5 million into this fund that’s aimed at helping vendors, both when the market closes just financially, but also putting staff time and hiring consultants to identify a new site potentially.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean Guy, La Pulga is this like very unique, sprawling market. We’re talking about 460 vendors. What are some of the things that the city needs to consider as it looks for a new location for the market? I mean, it sounds really hard to do that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, it’s really hard. I mean, look, in the Bay Area, land is incredibly expensive. And for a flea market of this size, you’re going to need a large piece of land. Most of the prime real estate, you know, conveniently located parcels were grabbed up years ago, let alone one of the size the, you know, dozens and dozens of acres you need for a site like this. And that’s how you get to a situation where the city of San Jose is saying the best place that we have for this landmark is a landfill. So there were five ideas brought forward by the consultant as like most viable for a future site.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>There was the Santa Clara County Fairgrounds. There was the former Sears Department store at the Eastridge Mall, which would be an indoor site. There was a small piece of land that could potentially exist at various in a future development. Then there was this idea of like just having vendors set up shop in vacant storefronts throughout the city. And then there was the former landfill on Singleton Road, and that has really risen to the top of the list in the mind of city officials.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Okay. So tell us about this landfill. Where is it? Exactly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So it’s pretty centrally located right in the middle of San Jose is right off of Capital Expressway. It’s not far from Highway one, two, one, and it’s 90 acres, so there’s plenty of room there for vendors, plenty of room there for parking. And so it really fits a lot of the criteria that the city would be looking for in a potential new site.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And what is there or I guess what used to be there?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So it’s still right in the Seven Trees neighborhood. So there’s folks who are living all around this landfill back in the sixties and seventies. It was home to private and municipal dumps, those largely closed by the late seventies. And since then, this huge piece of land has just been sitting vacant smack in the middle of San Jose.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, what does the landfill look like now, and what has the city tried to do with it in the past?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Right now, the landfill just looks like a massive abandoned field. It’s really just these flare stacks, which kind of look like big pipes that let you know that this used to be a landfill. They’re still standing. They’re burning off methane, But there’s not much going on there now. I mean, some city inspectors actually found roosters at the landfill last year being raised for cockfighting. But there’s fences all around it. So public access is pretty limited. And their security there now, pretty much ever since the landfill closed in the late seventies, there have been ideas on what to do with it, to turn it into a golf course, to use the methane releases to create a power plant. There was even a local ballot measure in San Jose back in 2000 to fund the sports complex here, but none of those ideas came to fruition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Why has this landfill kind of risen to the top of the list?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I think it breaks down to me for three reasons. Number one, the city owns this land. Like, that’s a huge piece of this because land is so expensive in the area. Finding a site where the city already owns clears out a huge amount of costs and just time that it would take to acquire a site. The second thing is the size. You’re talking about a 65 acre flea market as it exists currently. The Singleton landfills 90 acres. So it has room to basically house all the vendors that are at the flea market today, plus parking. And then the third is location.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nancy Klein: \u003c/strong>Which carries a lot of traffic. It’s near a lot of other things.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I talked to Nancy Klein, who’s the city’s director of economic development, cultural affairs. She pointed to the location piece of this as, look, we know a lot of people that go to LA, although currently are coming from all over the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nancy Klein: \u003c/strong>It has a similar profile in terms of several different transportation ways. So that makes it positive. It’s not as in some of the other sites which are quite a distance away on a road that makes would be terrible traffic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>She points to Singleton Road Landfill as having that advantage because it’s right off of 101. It’s near Capital Expressway. You have those major arteries that wouldn’t exist if you’d like, you know, stuck this in some open land in Morgan Hill or something.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean, that makes sense to me. It’s city owned land. It’s big enough. It’s near some really important roadways. What do vendors think of this idea?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>All along really the top priority I’ve heard from vendors both on this advisory group that’s kind of leading this process. And also folks who aren’t is keeping the market together. They know that there’s just this natural cross-pollination of businesses at La Pulga. You know, maybe you go to the market, you’re looking for like home goods or something. But while you’re there, your kids are with you. You buy them some candy, you buy them Agua Fresca. Like, there’s just this natural cross-currents that happens between businesses that is so important to keeping the market thriving.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And then if you split up the vendors into smaller locations all over the city, you might not get that Singleton would accomplish that. There’d be this opportunity like, we can keep the market together, but vendors have a lot of questions left to be answered about the site and also just about the process and timeline going forward. And so that’s really been at play in these meetings of the flea market vendor advisory group. They’ve met three times so far.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Nancy Klein: \u003c/strong>Around because we are a big community. We are…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>So I talked to Erika Barajas. She’s been a vendor at the market for years selling clothing. And her real feeling was like, yes, maybe, you know, Singleton has a lot of promise, but she really wants the city to commit to stepping up its support during this time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Erika Barajas: \u003c/strong>So I want to hear from the city on our next meeting that if we decide to go with them, whether are going to be committed to us and guarantee timely free meals and also moving expenses and make sure that that relocation, it’s good for all the vendors and also the sellers do.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Even if the Singleton Road landfill works out, there is going to be a lot of cost for preparing the site, but also a lot of costs on the vendors. You know, they will have to relocate after years and in various to this new market, there might be like a transitional time where they’re not able to sell at either place, kind of like a, you know, in-between time. And Erika’s real emphasis was like, we want commitments from the city to support us during that time because there’s just so much uncertainty ahead with this potential transition.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Erika Barajas: \u003c/strong>At the end of the day, City makes a lot of money on revenue from the sales, from the expenses that we pay from for income taxes. It will be helpful for all of us because we need each other. We are community and we need each other. Detainees is to help us and we will help the city.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Okay, So this landfill has really risen to the top as it sounds like the most viable option so far. But is this a good idea? I’m curious what residents nearby the landfill think.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>They mostly were just like, we have a lot of questions about this. And again, there was this thinking of like, we’ve heard it all before. We’ve heard they’re going to develop Singleton Road Landfill. We’ll believe it when we see it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lilia Gaspar: \u003c/strong>For the longest time, there was a proposal, but again, nothing has passed because this landfill is full of, you know, topics.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I talked to Lillia Gasper. She’s actually lived right next to the landfill almost her entire life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lilia Gaspar: \u003c/strong>Cherry Orchard We’re over here on land where a lunch on waste that used to be all cherry orchards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>She just kind of painted this a picture of someone who’s lived there for a long time. And I think, you know, her concerns and concerns of other residents I talked to largely had to do with, like traffic. Right. How is this all going to work if you have thousands of people coming in to shop in their neighborhood at the potential future flea market?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Lilia Gaspar: \u003c/strong>We already have a big issue right now of the jungle of the homeless encampment. It will just create more problems on top of it to poorer neighborhoods.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>And I think they also expressed just feeling like they had needs already in their neighborhood, that they felt that the city hadn’t done a great job of addressing, namely, in their minds, homeless encampments and blight and a feeling like, oh, there’s going to be focus on the flea market. What about the existing problems that we have in our neighborhoods? So we’ve talked a lot about like all that the city has to address on the vendor side of things to make this potential move happen. There’s a whole nother piece of this about talking to the neighbors who currently live around the Singleton Road Landfill and making them feel like this is a good idea, a good addition for their neighborhood as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I mean, also, this is an abandoned landfill, which makes me wonder, is it safe? I mean, if people are going to be working there all day and walking around and I don’t know, what do experts say about that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>You know, the landfill has been closed for decades, but there’s still actively methane being released from this site.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriel Filippelli: \u003c/strong>In general, this kind of reuse using the surface of the landfill for another activity is valuable. And it’s done in a lot of other places and it can can be safe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>I talked to Gabriel Filippelli. He’s executive director of the Indiana University Environmental Resilience Institute. He’s also a landfill expert. This is the kind of stuff he studies often. And he said, look like, you know, it can happen. This kind of reuse for former landfills is viable. But he says there’s still questions that will have to be answered and work that will have to be done in advance of this potential transformation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gabriel Filippelli: \u003c/strong>You always have to remember that you are sitting on a pile of material that has the potential to release toxins. So if you keep monitoring it, you have to keep checking it. And of course, if there’s any seismic disruption or digging or trenching, you have to pay extra special care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>We live in an area with earthquakes. Bad things could happen to the landfill if there’s an earthquake and it’s not there’s not structural integrity. So there’s a lot of boxes that would have to be checked. But generally, Philip Kelley said this is the kind of thing, this kind of reuse that can be done.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, looking ahead, guy, how long do people have to find this site? What’s the timeline here?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah. So under the agreement that the city reached with the owners of the current flea market, they have to give a one year notice for when they want to close the market and evict the vendors. So the earliest date when those evictions could happen is January 1st of 2025. But it could close a lot later than that. Right. The owners of the market right now haven’t found someone to do this massive development at the burial site. That could go on for years. Who knows? Given the current state of commercial real estate. So it’s kind of a mix of like, okay, this is far in the future. But also we don’t want to be complacent.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Wherever it is, La Pulga ends up. What’s at stake with this decision to find a new site? I mean, like it seems really important that the city finds a space to like both build housing near transit, which we all know needs to happen in the Bay Area, but also find a new place for these vendors who’ve been there for many, many years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I mean, think about all the attention that the Westfield Mall closure got in San Francisco, right? That was like 50 stores. This is almost 500. You know, this is a would be a massive displacement of small businesses, many of whom are immigrants. There’s the economic component to this. There’s like this is a landmark within the city. I think right now we see where is the commitment of the city government. We know budget times are tight in San Jose. We just had this big fight over city employee pay that we talked about recently on the bay. So this move to Singleton landfill, potentially, it’s not going to be cheap. There’s going to have to be the mitigation and preparing the site for this. So it’s going to take more money from the city government to make this happen. But it might also present really the best chance to keep this landmark alive. So what kind of emphasis is this for the city moving forward?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah, that’s an interesting way to think about it. And I guess it’s like, who is the future of San Jose for? Like who do we make room for?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Yeah, and this is, you know, I think there can be, like, a thinking of the flea market as like, oh, this is kind of just like a side hustle thing that people do. For about 75% of the vendors, this is their primary source of income. So this is just like this is like an economic cliff that’s staring in the face of hundreds of vendors here. So San Jose has these goals of building, you know, dense housing near transit. Can you accomplish that while also maintaining your goal of supporting small businesses, supporting like the cultural vitality that makes San Jose a dope place to live and be like those two goals? I’m sure the city has both of those. This is a real test of can they achieve both at the same time?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Thank you so much, Guy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guy Marzorati: \u003c/strong>Absolutely. My pleasure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Guy Marzorati, a political correspondent for KQED and producer of the Political Breakdown podcast, which you can find wherever you found the bay. Guy is based in San Jose. This 25 minute conversation with Guy was cut down and edited by producer María Esquinca. It was produced and scored by me. Also, if you like the Bay, prove it. Leave us a rating on Apple Podcasts. It helps other people to find our show. The Bay is a production of KQED in San Francisco. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>"
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"slug": "california-is-on-the-verge-of-banning-caste-discrimination",
"title": "California is On the Verge of Banning Caste Discrimination",
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"headTitle": "California is On the Verge of Banning Caste Discrimination | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">California might become the first state in the nation to ban discrimination based on caste, a hierarchical system based on birth that affects South Asians all over the world. Senate Bill 403, which was introduced by State Sen. Aisha Wahab, passed the state legislature and is now on Gov. Gavin Newsom’s desk for his signature or veto. In this episode that originally aired in June, reporter Sonia Paul breaks down the complexity of this issue and why it has divided South Asians in the Bay Area.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode originally aired on June 5, 2023.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Guest: \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/sonipaul?lang=en\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Sonia Paul\u003c/a>, freelance journalist\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC6014120120\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Links: \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/08/sb-403-california-caste-discrimination-bill-cisco/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How a Bill to Ban Caste Discrimination Morphed Into a Fight About Wokism\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/newsletters/whatmatters/2023/09/caste-discrimination-bill-2/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">California lawmakers send caste discrimination bill to Newsom\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local News to Keep You Rooted. Governor Gavin Newsom’s got a stack of bills sitting on his desk waiting for either a signature or his veto. Among them is SB 403, a bill that has divided the South Asian community. It’s a first of its kind attempt to ban discrimination statewide because of someone’s caste, a hierarchy based on birth. That affects South Asians all over the world. It’s an attempt by members of lower, more oppressed castes to get protections under the law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Speaker 1 at townhall: \u003c/strong>As a Nepali, Hindu Dalit, I have experienced caste discrimination multiple times in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>But ever since the bill was introduced, there’s been a strong backlash from people who see it as an attack on their Hindu faith.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Speaker 2 at townhall: \u003c/strong>We [feel] like SB 403 is polluting the harmony and the peace we know and seeing hatred in the hearts and minds of the people, which was very obvious from the gathering outside we just faced.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And even though the bill has passed the legislature and just needs Newsom’s signature to become law, the two sides are not letting up. Supporters are currently on a hunger strike until Newsom signs the bill, and those against it are calling on the governor to veto it. So today we’re re-upping this episode that we did with freelance journalist Sonia Paul about the origins of this bill in Silicon Valley and why it has divided the South Asian community right here in the Bay Area. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>When I was growing up, I was thinking less about caste and more about just having a mixed identity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Sonia Paul is a freelance journalist based in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>My family comes from India and the Philippines. We grew up with multiple religions and so broadly speaking, one of the reasons I’m attracted to reporting on caste is that it’s reporting on a minority within a minority.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Harsha Pilli: \u003c/strong>I had one privileged caste manager.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>Harsha Pilli is a tech worker. He’s at Microsoft right now. He was working for a company and he prefers not to name that particular company. He was hired by an American manager.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Harsha Pilli: \u003c/strong>And first here I had a good performance appraisal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>And then at one point an Indian manager came on board. One of the first questions he asked Harsha, Oh, how do you pronounce your last name?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Harsha Pilli: \u003c/strong>And is it Pill-eye? Or Pill-ee?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>Depending on the pronunciation of his last name, it would indicate a different caste background.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Harsha Pilli: \u003c/strong>Pill-eye in South India is an affluent caste last name and Pilli, in our native language in Telugu, only the majority of Dalit communities have that last name.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>At that time, Harsha didn’t think too too much of it. And then when he got his performance appraisals, he had really low marks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Harsha Pilli: \u003c/strong>And for the last three months of that particular financial year, I had been given a zero, putting me in the not met category again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>A different manager came on board, not that Indian manager, and he once again had really excellent reports. And so he put two and two together and he thought to himself like, Oh, I think this is, you know, caste discrimination, whether consciously or unconsciously. This manager was biased against me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Harsha Pilli: \u003c/strong>I know, because from my birth I have experienced these discriminations. It is one of them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>It’s our advice him to go to the legal department of his company and the legal department launched an investigation. But eventually that legal department concluded that there was no evidence of caste discrimination. He told me, like, I’m pretty sure it’s because of the absence of the term CAS and the ability for them to actually know what to look for. But he also said that he was willing to come forward about the story because he is now a citizen of the US.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Harsha Pilli: \u003c/strong>I wouldn’t have resorted. I wouldn’t have dared to escalate it because there are ramifications. Being on H-1Bs keeps a person vulnerable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean, what is caste? Can you define it for people who don’t know what it is?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>Caste was first mentioned in ancient Vedic scriptures, which have formed the basis of Hinduism. But over time, caste has traveled throughout South Asia, manifests in all South Asian religions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Anupama Rao: \u003c/strong>Broadly, one can think about caste as a form of inherited privilege.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>So Anupama Rao is a professor and a historian at Columbia University and she has written a book about caste.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Anupama Rao: \u003c/strong>It is a system based on privilege that draws on birth. That is, you are born into a particular caste in South Asia. It’s very much associated with purity and pollution and labor. And you have the manual or the laboring castes called should Rise, who are at the bottom of this four fold hierarchy. And then the community that I worked with, Untouchables, who actually fall outside the caste fold. They’re the ones who perform degrading labor. They actually are spatially segregated. They often live outside villages and so forth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>And it manifests in the way they might have access to jobs or be able to seek education.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Anupama Rao: \u003c/strong>Caste regulates social relationships that actually influences who you can eat with, who you can marry. So it is about diet, about sex and marriage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>And she talked a lot about how caste morphs and how it changes and how it’s constantly in evolution. It’s not one constant state when it comes to this kind of stereotypical pyramid that people might be familiar with When thinking about the caste system in a hierarchy, it’s typically divided into four groups. Broadly speaking, these four categories would be the priestly caste, the warrior caste, the merchant caste, the trader caste. But at the bottom would be Dalits. But they are actually technically outside that system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And is that the caste that Harsha is part of?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>Harsha identifies as adult. It’s really interesting. Adalat is the term that people formerly known as Untouchables would prefer to call themselves. In Hindi, it translates to broken or crushed. But instead of it being an identity of oppression for them, it’s like a reclamation of that identity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I know because this is such a sensitive subject, you were talking about how it’s just been so difficult for you to even find anyone to talk with you about this. Why is that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>I think when it comes to people who have actually experienced caste discrimination, there’s so much retaliation that they fear. A lot of them have precarious immigration statuses, whether they’re on H-1B visas or perhaps even seeking asylum here. And so to go and try to, like, file a discrimination complaint about caste isn’t within their wherewithal, especially because some of them have said that the absence of caste as an explicit category makes it very difficult for them to explain what’s happening. The disclosure of cars for people who come from historically marginalized caste communities is itself a form of discrimination. Being outed is a form of discrimination. And typically people can sort of figure out a person’s caste background from their last name. But it’s not always that easy. It’s not always that obvious. And so there tends to be a series of questions that someone might ask to figure out what that person’s caste background is. It’s a way of locating that person on a hierarchy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Are there a lot of other stories like Harsha’s, where people here in the Bay Area are discriminated against because of their caste?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>The lawsuit that first, you know, galvanize a lot of attention on caste discrimination in the US, especially within the tech industry, was the Cisco lawsuit that came out in 2020. And almost immediately after that lawsuit, a group called Equality Labs received more than 250 complaints of caste discrimination at all these prominent tech companies. Mehta Netflix, Google and so on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Most of the public complaints about caste discrimination have come out of the tech world, in part because there are so many first generation South Asians working in Silicon Valley, many of them on H-1B visas. But Sonia says it’s not exclusive to tech. She’s also heard stories about nannies, field workers and other low wage workers who say they’ve faced caste discrimination, too. And now people want something to be done about it. One thing that has gotten people from both sides of this debate to really come out and speak on caste is this bill that State Senator Aisha Wahab has introduced. What is this bill and what would it do exactly?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>Senator Aisha Wahab represents parts of the South Bay and East Bay. She’s Afghan-American. She’s Muslim, although she has said she is not particularly religious, but she grew up hearing stories about caste and caste discrimination.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Aisha Wahab: \u003c/strong>I am honored to announce SB 403 ending discrimination on the basis of caste, a civil rights Bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>And I think with the complaints that have come forward, this was one of her first priorities when she came into office. SB 403 intends to clarify existing anti-discrimination laws in California to say that cars is explicitly prohibited.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Aisha Wahab: \u003c/strong>As a woman of color, I am. I’m incredibly sensitive to the ways in which other cultures, faiths and beliefs are depicted, perceived and discussed in mainstream media, politics and our laws. The movement to raise the issue and protect vulnerable individuals that are being discriminated against based on caste starts in my region and my district.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>Senator Wahab felt it was necessary to explicitly name caste so that it’s clear, so that regulators know that it’s not allowed and there would be more processes in place for how to address caste discrimination. Since this bill came out, more and more people have come to their office thanking her, wanting this bill to pass. You know, we hear a lot about the push back, but she has gotten a lot of support from around the country and around the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>It sounds like there has been a lot of support, a lot of people coming out and sharing their stories and really advocating for this bill. A lot of Senator Williams constituents thanking her. But I know there’s also been a lot of backlash. What has the backlash been about exactly?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>The introduction of this bill has opened up an old wound for a lot of people that has been festering for a long time, which is why are we talking about cars? This is something that we left behind. This is something that is not relevant to our communities. This is not something we teach our children. And this mostly comes from some Hindu groups and individuals. Although it’s not exclusive to the Hindu community, they tend to be the most vocal. And they’ll say that to talk about caste, to name it in our laws is going to be, quote unquote, Hindu phobic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Why is that Hindu phobic to a lot of people?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>They say even if caste manifests across South Asia, if it exists in all religions, it’s always popularly going to be understood with Hinduism. You know, when we teach about our religion or always talk about the caste system. Right. We’re it’s so much more than that. One of the first audio documentaries I ever reported actually was about a controversy among some Hindu activists and South Asian activists arguing over the correct representation of ancient Indian history in California middle school textbooks. And chief among their concerns was a representation of caste.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>People from the Hindu community. It sounds like our feeling targeted by this bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>They say that. I think it’s also really interesting to think about when and why we’re hearing Hindu phobia. Like, I think there’s discrimination that exists against Hindus, but this rhetoric around Hindu phobia or things being anti-hindu have risen as we’ve seen more people from oppressed caste communities try to assert their rights. And critics of that term, Hindu phobia, because of the way we’re hearing it most often around caste protections, they believe that it’s merely trying to use racial and religious protections to deflect scrutiny away from caste.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Coming up, how caste and big feelings around SB 403 all came to a head in one Bay Area city. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Speaker at townhall: \u003c/strong>Good evening. I’d like to call the City Council meeting to order for April 18th, 2023.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong> I know you actually went to a Fremont City Council meeting in April. That really speaks to how strongly people are feeling about this. What was the vibe?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>It was wild. I didn’t know really what was going to happen. I just heard. Oh. Fremont Mayor Lily May is going to issue a proclamation on Hindu phobia. And I was like, Wait, what? And I went, And there are crowds of people. I saw a lot of supporters of SB 403, the anti caste bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Protesters: \u003c/strong>[chanting]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>Holding up their blue and yellow signs. And then I saw a lot of people holding white posters. They had like SB 403 equals Hindu phobia or Equality Labs is an anti-hindu organization. And as a crowd grew, it became like a ruckus. There were people arguing with each other, yelling at each other, saying, No, you be quiet. No, no, this or that. Like getting added about caste.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Montage of townhall: \u003c/strong>SB 403 is internalized hindu hatred, which has already been normalized in public discourse, will be institutionalized if passed. As a proud mom of two American kids attending Fremont Unified School District Schools, I love Fremont and I love this nation. My kids, like many of us Hindus, do not identify with caste. Our kids are not even aware of caste. The SB 403 bill is un-American and it violates our rights as Hindus. Dalit rights and human rights. And the city of Fremont must make a proclamation to address caste discrimination in the city. The lists are here are facing was tipped physical violence, housing discrimination and gender based violence. Instead of unity, we received harm and a violation of our rights. We feel like as SB 403 is polluting the harmony and the peace we know and seeding hatred in the hearts and minds of the people. It’s an attack on my faith and religion with a hidden agenda in the name of caste, and I strongly oppose this bill. SB 403. So, I’m here to talk about one of the symptoms of Hindu phobia, which we are seeing as a bill named SB 403.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>It kind of sounds like a lot of people would actually rather not see caste be a thing here in the US.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>It’s interesting because we have like in the U.S., we’re very familiar with the myth of the model minority. And I think one of the things that we’re seeing in the way people are grappling or fighting is them also kind of grappling with this myth of caste-lessness that has so far been very dominant in our discussions of minority and diaspora communities. And it’s been in the last handful of years that we are hearing more from people from oppressed caste backgrounds who maybe didn’t have a voice in these immigrant communities before. And people on both sides of this bill, for example, SB 403. I’ll ask them like, why? Why do you believe the way you do? Why are you caught up in this movement? Or why don’t you think this bill should pass? They’ll say like, I don’t want the shadow of caste to be on my children. I don’t want them to have to deal with caste. And so there’s this catch 22 of in order for caste not to be relevant, we have to make it illegal for caste discrimination to occur. What you do when you do that, you automatically make caste relevant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>You put it to the forefront, even though a lot of people would rather it not be there, I guess.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>Yeah, and the word itself carries a lot of baggage for people. They can’t even bring themselves to see the word caste. They will try to argue who actually brought caste to India. What it’s what is its real origins? You know, when people see that caste discrimination doesn’t exist. It’s a viewpoint that comes from having the inherited privilege of not having to think about caste or feel that’s relevant to your life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, speaking of this bill, what’s next for it? Does it have a chance at all at becoming law?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>Earlier this spring, there was a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing about this bill. It was a unanimous vote. Yes, let’s move the bill forward. Then there is a vote in the Senate and only one person dissented. In June and July, you’re going to have hearings in the assembly. And I think we’re going to see more interesting reactions to this bill. There’s already a representative in Silicon Valley, Rishi Kumar. He has come out and he says like it’s going to promote Hindu phobia. It is irrelevant and it’s going to be divisive. I think we’re waiting to hear more from other representatives. Senator Wahab has said that some of her colleagues are a little bit irritated at her for introducing this bill because as soon as she introduced it, their offices were slammed with phone calls, like numbering in the thousands of people vocalizing their support or vocalizing their dissent about the bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I know Aisha Wahab has also gotten some like really nasty threats too, right? Can you talk about that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>She and her colleagues have faced so much retaliation, death threats, abuse, rape threats. She had to be fitted for a bulletproof vest. She said she’s had people follow her and her colleagues as they walk back to their car. People also try to denigrate her identity. They’ll call her a Wahhabi. You know, for her last name, you know, being Muslim or jihadis or say, why don’t you introduce a bill about, you know, Muslims or something? Why are you going to denigrate Hindus?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, I mean, you’ve been wading through all of this controversy, Sonia, as a reporter, and I want to come back to you. I mean, you’ve been reporting on this for years. What has it been like for you to report on caste in the United States?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>It’s been interesting and frustrating. And mind boggling. But I think there’s so much energy around this. There’s so much shame around cast. There’s so much drama around cars. And so I’m also learning how to be patient for the people I’d like to interview. I would also say on a broader level, it makes me think just about the stories we tell ourselves and the histories we know about ourselves and our communities and our families. Because I can understand, on the one hand, people who emigrate to a new country and they want to leave whatever shames of their old country behind. So this argument about the relevance of caste or why why are we talking about it? I don’t practice caste or caste discrimination. Yes. But as a few people have also told me, and as we’re seeing when we hear about complaints of discrimination, you have to address this on a systemic level. And I think because earlier generations of South Asian immigrants, especially Indian immigrants, have come from historically privileged caste communities. I think it’s a really interesting question. What does it mean when you have multiple generations of immigrants who have different experiences of being an immigrant? Because most of the allegations of caste discrimination are coming from first generation immigrants. Look at the demographic change of this region, given where the complaints of caste discrimination are so far coming from and the demographic changes that we’ve seen in the Bay Area, it’s a Bay Area story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Sonia, thank you so much for your reporting and for sharing it with us. I appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>Yeah, Thanks so much for having me on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>SB 403 passed the state Senate by a vote of 31 to 5. At the end of the day, the final version of the bill is a little more watered down than originally intended. For one, caste wouldn’t be explicitly banned as its own protected class in anti-discrimination laws. Instead, it’s tucked under ancestry. That was Sonia Paul, a freelance journalist, editor and instructor for Uncuffed. Since this episode first published, Sonia has done more reporting on this topic. She actually did a piece for Mother Jones on the politics of the bill. I highly recommend that read. I’ll leave you a link to it in our show notes. This episode, first published in June of this year. It was cut by senior editor Alan Montecillo, scored by me and producer Maria Esquinca, who added all the tape and the interview that you heard with Harsha Pilli originally aired on the BBC’s Documentary podcast. And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara. Thank you for listening. Talk to you next time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">California might become the first state in the nation to ban discrimination based on caste, a hierarchical system based on birth that affects South Asians all over the world. Senate Bill 403, which was introduced by State Sen. Aisha Wahab, passed the state legislature and is now on Gov. Gavin Newsom’s desk for his signature or veto. In this episode that originally aired in June, reporter Sonia Paul breaks down the complexity of this issue and why it has divided South Asians in the Bay Area.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This episode originally aired on June 5, 2023.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Guest: \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/sonipaul?lang=en\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Sonia Paul\u003c/a>, freelance journalist\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC6014120120\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Links: \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/08/sb-403-california-caste-discrimination-bill-cisco/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How a Bill to Ban Caste Discrimination Morphed Into a Fight About Wokism\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/newsletters/whatmatters/2023/09/caste-discrimination-bill-2/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">California lawmakers send caste discrimination bill to Newsom\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local News to Keep You Rooted. Governor Gavin Newsom’s got a stack of bills sitting on his desk waiting for either a signature or his veto. Among them is SB 403, a bill that has divided the South Asian community. It’s a first of its kind attempt to ban discrimination statewide because of someone’s caste, a hierarchy based on birth. That affects South Asians all over the world. It’s an attempt by members of lower, more oppressed castes to get protections under the law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Speaker 1 at townhall: \u003c/strong>As a Nepali, Hindu Dalit, I have experienced caste discrimination multiple times in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>But ever since the bill was introduced, there’s been a strong backlash from people who see it as an attack on their Hindu faith.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Speaker 2 at townhall: \u003c/strong>We [feel] like SB 403 is polluting the harmony and the peace we know and seeing hatred in the hearts and minds of the people, which was very obvious from the gathering outside we just faced.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And even though the bill has passed the legislature and just needs Newsom’s signature to become law, the two sides are not letting up. Supporters are currently on a hunger strike until Newsom signs the bill, and those against it are calling on the governor to veto it. So today we’re re-upping this episode that we did with freelance journalist Sonia Paul about the origins of this bill in Silicon Valley and why it has divided the South Asian community right here in the Bay Area. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>When I was growing up, I was thinking less about caste and more about just having a mixed identity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Sonia Paul is a freelance journalist based in the Bay Area.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>My family comes from India and the Philippines. We grew up with multiple religions and so broadly speaking, one of the reasons I’m attracted to reporting on caste is that it’s reporting on a minority within a minority.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Harsha Pilli: \u003c/strong>I had one privileged caste manager.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>Harsha Pilli is a tech worker. He’s at Microsoft right now. He was working for a company and he prefers not to name that particular company. He was hired by an American manager.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Harsha Pilli: \u003c/strong>And first here I had a good performance appraisal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>And then at one point an Indian manager came on board. One of the first questions he asked Harsha, Oh, how do you pronounce your last name?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Harsha Pilli: \u003c/strong>And is it Pill-eye? Or Pill-ee?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>Depending on the pronunciation of his last name, it would indicate a different caste background.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Harsha Pilli: \u003c/strong>Pill-eye in South India is an affluent caste last name and Pilli, in our native language in Telugu, only the majority of Dalit communities have that last name.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>At that time, Harsha didn’t think too too much of it. And then when he got his performance appraisals, he had really low marks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Harsha Pilli: \u003c/strong>And for the last three months of that particular financial year, I had been given a zero, putting me in the not met category again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>A different manager came on board, not that Indian manager, and he once again had really excellent reports. And so he put two and two together and he thought to himself like, Oh, I think this is, you know, caste discrimination, whether consciously or unconsciously. This manager was biased against me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Harsha Pilli: \u003c/strong>I know, because from my birth I have experienced these discriminations. It is one of them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>It’s our advice him to go to the legal department of his company and the legal department launched an investigation. But eventually that legal department concluded that there was no evidence of caste discrimination. He told me, like, I’m pretty sure it’s because of the absence of the term CAS and the ability for them to actually know what to look for. But he also said that he was willing to come forward about the story because he is now a citizen of the US.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Harsha Pilli: \u003c/strong>I wouldn’t have resorted. I wouldn’t have dared to escalate it because there are ramifications. Being on H-1Bs keeps a person vulnerable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean, what is caste? Can you define it for people who don’t know what it is?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>Caste was first mentioned in ancient Vedic scriptures, which have formed the basis of Hinduism. But over time, caste has traveled throughout South Asia, manifests in all South Asian religions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Anupama Rao: \u003c/strong>Broadly, one can think about caste as a form of inherited privilege.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>So Anupama Rao is a professor and a historian at Columbia University and she has written a book about caste.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Anupama Rao: \u003c/strong>It is a system based on privilege that draws on birth. That is, you are born into a particular caste in South Asia. It’s very much associated with purity and pollution and labor. And you have the manual or the laboring castes called should Rise, who are at the bottom of this four fold hierarchy. And then the community that I worked with, Untouchables, who actually fall outside the caste fold. They’re the ones who perform degrading labor. They actually are spatially segregated. They often live outside villages and so forth.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>And it manifests in the way they might have access to jobs or be able to seek education.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Anupama Rao: \u003c/strong>Caste regulates social relationships that actually influences who you can eat with, who you can marry. So it is about diet, about sex and marriage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>And she talked a lot about how caste morphs and how it changes and how it’s constantly in evolution. It’s not one constant state when it comes to this kind of stereotypical pyramid that people might be familiar with When thinking about the caste system in a hierarchy, it’s typically divided into four groups. Broadly speaking, these four categories would be the priestly caste, the warrior caste, the merchant caste, the trader caste. But at the bottom would be Dalits. But they are actually technically outside that system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And is that the caste that Harsha is part of?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>Harsha identifies as adult. It’s really interesting. Adalat is the term that people formerly known as Untouchables would prefer to call themselves. In Hindi, it translates to broken or crushed. But instead of it being an identity of oppression for them, it’s like a reclamation of that identity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I know because this is such a sensitive subject, you were talking about how it’s just been so difficult for you to even find anyone to talk with you about this. Why is that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>I think when it comes to people who have actually experienced caste discrimination, there’s so much retaliation that they fear. A lot of them have precarious immigration statuses, whether they’re on H-1B visas or perhaps even seeking asylum here. And so to go and try to, like, file a discrimination complaint about caste isn’t within their wherewithal, especially because some of them have said that the absence of caste as an explicit category makes it very difficult for them to explain what’s happening. The disclosure of cars for people who come from historically marginalized caste communities is itself a form of discrimination. Being outed is a form of discrimination. And typically people can sort of figure out a person’s caste background from their last name. But it’s not always that easy. It’s not always that obvious. And so there tends to be a series of questions that someone might ask to figure out what that person’s caste background is. It’s a way of locating that person on a hierarchy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Are there a lot of other stories like Harsha’s, where people here in the Bay Area are discriminated against because of their caste?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>The lawsuit that first, you know, galvanize a lot of attention on caste discrimination in the US, especially within the tech industry, was the Cisco lawsuit that came out in 2020. And almost immediately after that lawsuit, a group called Equality Labs received more than 250 complaints of caste discrimination at all these prominent tech companies. Mehta Netflix, Google and so on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Most of the public complaints about caste discrimination have come out of the tech world, in part because there are so many first generation South Asians working in Silicon Valley, many of them on H-1B visas. But Sonia says it’s not exclusive to tech. She’s also heard stories about nannies, field workers and other low wage workers who say they’ve faced caste discrimination, too. And now people want something to be done about it. One thing that has gotten people from both sides of this debate to really come out and speak on caste is this bill that State Senator Aisha Wahab has introduced. What is this bill and what would it do exactly?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>Senator Aisha Wahab represents parts of the South Bay and East Bay. She’s Afghan-American. She’s Muslim, although she has said she is not particularly religious, but she grew up hearing stories about caste and caste discrimination.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Aisha Wahab: \u003c/strong>I am honored to announce SB 403 ending discrimination on the basis of caste, a civil rights Bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>And I think with the complaints that have come forward, this was one of her first priorities when she came into office. SB 403 intends to clarify existing anti-discrimination laws in California to say that cars is explicitly prohibited.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Aisha Wahab: \u003c/strong>As a woman of color, I am. I’m incredibly sensitive to the ways in which other cultures, faiths and beliefs are depicted, perceived and discussed in mainstream media, politics and our laws. The movement to raise the issue and protect vulnerable individuals that are being discriminated against based on caste starts in my region and my district.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>Senator Wahab felt it was necessary to explicitly name caste so that it’s clear, so that regulators know that it’s not allowed and there would be more processes in place for how to address caste discrimination. Since this bill came out, more and more people have come to their office thanking her, wanting this bill to pass. You know, we hear a lot about the push back, but she has gotten a lot of support from around the country and around the world.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>It sounds like there has been a lot of support, a lot of people coming out and sharing their stories and really advocating for this bill. A lot of Senator Williams constituents thanking her. But I know there’s also been a lot of backlash. What has the backlash been about exactly?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>The introduction of this bill has opened up an old wound for a lot of people that has been festering for a long time, which is why are we talking about cars? This is something that we left behind. This is something that is not relevant to our communities. This is not something we teach our children. And this mostly comes from some Hindu groups and individuals. Although it’s not exclusive to the Hindu community, they tend to be the most vocal. And they’ll say that to talk about caste, to name it in our laws is going to be, quote unquote, Hindu phobic.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Why is that Hindu phobic to a lot of people?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>They say even if caste manifests across South Asia, if it exists in all religions, it’s always popularly going to be understood with Hinduism. You know, when we teach about our religion or always talk about the caste system. Right. We’re it’s so much more than that. One of the first audio documentaries I ever reported actually was about a controversy among some Hindu activists and South Asian activists arguing over the correct representation of ancient Indian history in California middle school textbooks. And chief among their concerns was a representation of caste.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>People from the Hindu community. It sounds like our feeling targeted by this bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>They say that. I think it’s also really interesting to think about when and why we’re hearing Hindu phobia. Like, I think there’s discrimination that exists against Hindus, but this rhetoric around Hindu phobia or things being anti-hindu have risen as we’ve seen more people from oppressed caste communities try to assert their rights. And critics of that term, Hindu phobia, because of the way we’re hearing it most often around caste protections, they believe that it’s merely trying to use racial and religious protections to deflect scrutiny away from caste.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Coming up, how caste and big feelings around SB 403 all came to a head in one Bay Area city. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Speaker at townhall: \u003c/strong>Good evening. I’d like to call the City Council meeting to order for April 18th, 2023.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong> I know you actually went to a Fremont City Council meeting in April. That really speaks to how strongly people are feeling about this. What was the vibe?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>It was wild. I didn’t know really what was going to happen. I just heard. Oh. Fremont Mayor Lily May is going to issue a proclamation on Hindu phobia. And I was like, Wait, what? And I went, And there are crowds of people. I saw a lot of supporters of SB 403, the anti caste bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Protesters: \u003c/strong>[chanting]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>Holding up their blue and yellow signs. And then I saw a lot of people holding white posters. They had like SB 403 equals Hindu phobia or Equality Labs is an anti-hindu organization. And as a crowd grew, it became like a ruckus. There were people arguing with each other, yelling at each other, saying, No, you be quiet. No, no, this or that. Like getting added about caste.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Montage of townhall: \u003c/strong>SB 403 is internalized hindu hatred, which has already been normalized in public discourse, will be institutionalized if passed. As a proud mom of two American kids attending Fremont Unified School District Schools, I love Fremont and I love this nation. My kids, like many of us Hindus, do not identify with caste. Our kids are not even aware of caste. The SB 403 bill is un-American and it violates our rights as Hindus. Dalit rights and human rights. And the city of Fremont must make a proclamation to address caste discrimination in the city. The lists are here are facing was tipped physical violence, housing discrimination and gender based violence. Instead of unity, we received harm and a violation of our rights. We feel like as SB 403 is polluting the harmony and the peace we know and seeding hatred in the hearts and minds of the people. It’s an attack on my faith and religion with a hidden agenda in the name of caste, and I strongly oppose this bill. SB 403. So, I’m here to talk about one of the symptoms of Hindu phobia, which we are seeing as a bill named SB 403.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>It kind of sounds like a lot of people would actually rather not see caste be a thing here in the US.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>It’s interesting because we have like in the U.S., we’re very familiar with the myth of the model minority. And I think one of the things that we’re seeing in the way people are grappling or fighting is them also kind of grappling with this myth of caste-lessness that has so far been very dominant in our discussions of minority and diaspora communities. And it’s been in the last handful of years that we are hearing more from people from oppressed caste backgrounds who maybe didn’t have a voice in these immigrant communities before. And people on both sides of this bill, for example, SB 403. I’ll ask them like, why? Why do you believe the way you do? Why are you caught up in this movement? Or why don’t you think this bill should pass? They’ll say like, I don’t want the shadow of caste to be on my children. I don’t want them to have to deal with caste. And so there’s this catch 22 of in order for caste not to be relevant, we have to make it illegal for caste discrimination to occur. What you do when you do that, you automatically make caste relevant.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>You put it to the forefront, even though a lot of people would rather it not be there, I guess.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>Yeah, and the word itself carries a lot of baggage for people. They can’t even bring themselves to see the word caste. They will try to argue who actually brought caste to India. What it’s what is its real origins? You know, when people see that caste discrimination doesn’t exist. It’s a viewpoint that comes from having the inherited privilege of not having to think about caste or feel that’s relevant to your life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, speaking of this bill, what’s next for it? Does it have a chance at all at becoming law?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>Earlier this spring, there was a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing about this bill. It was a unanimous vote. Yes, let’s move the bill forward. Then there is a vote in the Senate and only one person dissented. In June and July, you’re going to have hearings in the assembly. And I think we’re going to see more interesting reactions to this bill. There’s already a representative in Silicon Valley, Rishi Kumar. He has come out and he says like it’s going to promote Hindu phobia. It is irrelevant and it’s going to be divisive. I think we’re waiting to hear more from other representatives. Senator Wahab has said that some of her colleagues are a little bit irritated at her for introducing this bill because as soon as she introduced it, their offices were slammed with phone calls, like numbering in the thousands of people vocalizing their support or vocalizing their dissent about the bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I know Aisha Wahab has also gotten some like really nasty threats too, right? Can you talk about that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>She and her colleagues have faced so much retaliation, death threats, abuse, rape threats. She had to be fitted for a bulletproof vest. She said she’s had people follow her and her colleagues as they walk back to their car. People also try to denigrate her identity. They’ll call her a Wahhabi. You know, for her last name, you know, being Muslim or jihadis or say, why don’t you introduce a bill about, you know, Muslims or something? Why are you going to denigrate Hindus?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, I mean, you’ve been wading through all of this controversy, Sonia, as a reporter, and I want to come back to you. I mean, you’ve been reporting on this for years. What has it been like for you to report on caste in the United States?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>It’s been interesting and frustrating. And mind boggling. But I think there’s so much energy around this. There’s so much shame around cast. There’s so much drama around cars. And so I’m also learning how to be patient for the people I’d like to interview. I would also say on a broader level, it makes me think just about the stories we tell ourselves and the histories we know about ourselves and our communities and our families. Because I can understand, on the one hand, people who emigrate to a new country and they want to leave whatever shames of their old country behind. So this argument about the relevance of caste or why why are we talking about it? I don’t practice caste or caste discrimination. Yes. But as a few people have also told me, and as we’re seeing when we hear about complaints of discrimination, you have to address this on a systemic level. And I think because earlier generations of South Asian immigrants, especially Indian immigrants, have come from historically privileged caste communities. I think it’s a really interesting question. What does it mean when you have multiple generations of immigrants who have different experiences of being an immigrant? Because most of the allegations of caste discrimination are coming from first generation immigrants. Look at the demographic change of this region, given where the complaints of caste discrimination are so far coming from and the demographic changes that we’ve seen in the Bay Area, it’s a Bay Area story.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Sonia, thank you so much for your reporting and for sharing it with us. I appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Sonia Paul: \u003c/strong>Yeah, Thanks so much for having me on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>SB 403 passed the state Senate by a vote of 31 to 5. At the end of the day, the final version of the bill is a little more watered down than originally intended. For one, caste wouldn’t be explicitly banned as its own protected class in anti-discrimination laws. Instead, it’s tucked under ancestry. That was Sonia Paul, a freelance journalist, editor and instructor for Uncuffed. Since this episode first published, Sonia has done more reporting on this topic. She actually did a piece for Mother Jones on the politics of the bill. I highly recommend that read. I’ll leave you a link to it in our show notes. This episode, first published in June of this year. It was cut by senior editor Alan Montecillo, scored by me and producer Maria Esquinca, who added all the tape and the interview that you heard with Harsha Pilli originally aired on the BBC’s Documentary podcast. And I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara. Thank you for listening. Talk to you next time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On Monday, BART rolled out a new schedule and changes to its system. They’re calling it a “reimagined” service plan. Combine that with increased police and non-uniformed personnel, and it’s clear that BART is trying to make changes that woo riders back onto its trains. Will it work?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC2679903955\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\n\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local News to Keep You Rooted. Bad news about BART just doesn’t surprise me anymore. The system has been struggling to get people on its trains again since the pandemic and has been battling a public relations crisis around crime and safety. That plus the delays and all the other problems that regular riders are probably used to seeing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Montage of listener voicemails: \u003c/strong>They often go home for Sunday dinner with the family and it’s often really delayed and it just feels inconsistent. It’s also already way too expensive. I used to actually be a regular BART right here. I do agree with a lot of the sentiment regarding the public that it’s just a little unfair.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>But this week, BART made some big changes to its system and the agency is hoping that it’s enough to bring people back and riders are hoping so, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Montage of listener voicemails: \u003c/strong>I definitely have noticed the new schedule this week and it’s been a welcome change. Overall, I’d really continue to root for BART and hope that they can figure out their financing. I really hope to see BART fully recover because it is a great service, but I want it to be better and I love it because I know that it’s not the best we deserve, but I want it to be better and it’s the best we have right now. Ugh, I have mixed feelings, I love BART and I hate BART.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Today we’re talking with KQED, Dan Brakey, about all the changes BART just made to its system and the tall order. It’s got to win your heart back. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Dan Brekke is a transportation editor for KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>One of the changes would be that no one would ever have more than a 20 minute wait. That would happen by actually reducing some of the weekdays service on the lesser traveled lines like the line between Richmond and Barry s, for instance, there would be an increase in service on the busiest line, which is the line between Pittsburgh, Bay Point and SFO, San Francisco International Airport. Now the trade off on that line is those trains are running every 10 minutes and those other lines like from Richmond to Barry s, they’re only running every 20 minutes. And if they sort of evened everything out, you could have trains all day, every day, every 20 minutes. It’s a big change. And there are some things that people are not totally in love with yet, but it seems to be working pretty well so far.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>A part of that change, too, is that they’re actually way less of the old legacy BART trains and more of the sort of new ones, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>Yes, that’s exactly right. BART made a sort of big production out of what it called the final trip by a legacy fleet train. These are cars that go back to the very beginning of BART. BART is 51 years old this month, and they’re looking a little beat right now. And so as part of this change service, BART is retiring. Those from regular service, you still may see them. What the service is supposed to feature each and every day for all service hours is it’s the brand new train. You know, these new cars represent a big advance in the customer experience in a lot of ways. But there are some things that people don’t like so much. The seating configuration is different. Some people find the seats too hard and stuff like that. But anyway, you have brand new cars, better ventilation and better signage and announcements and all of that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And then the trains are also going to be shorter, like actually fewer cars, right? What’s that about?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>At the beginning of the pandemic, BART began running almost exclusively ten car trains. And that was because there was this concern about social distancing. There were many fewer people riding, but to make them feel comfortable, the trains were made longer than they typically had been earlier so that people could space themselves out on the cars. But BART is looking at a number of things that make it feel like it needed to change how it was managing those train lengths. So what they’ve done starting this week is to just run shorter trains on most lines like the one from Richmond to Barry S in the East Bay or from Dublin, Pleasanton to Daly City, for instance. They’re cutting the train lengths from the typical ten cars before to six cars. And then on that busy Pittsburgh Bay point to SFO line they’re cutting the train lengths to eight cars. And BART says it’s trying to do several things there. One thing running fewer cars actually saves maintenance costs and makes the system a little cheaper to run. They have fewer cars to clean. They can process a lot more of them a lot more quickly. They also say it will be easier to police the trains with both uniformed police officers, fare inspectors, crisis intervention specialists and community ambassadors that it’s easier to manage the shorter trains. And then there’s the idea that having shorter trains means, of course, the crowding is going to be more of a factor. There’s a denser population and having more people on the cars will discourage people from doing things that other passengers might not like so much. And finally, having the shorter trains means that people, when they want to ride in the front car, for instance, to be near a train operator, This is an issue for women passengers especially. They don’t have to wait all the way at the end of a lonely platform to do that. So that’s what BART’s up to with the shorter trains.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I do feel like most of the talk about BART lately has been pretty negative. I mean, everyone kind of keeps talking about these fears of safety on BART, and I want to play this one voicemail that we actually got from Jimmy from San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Jimmy from San Francisco \u003c/strong>One traumatic experience I remember actually was not too long ago, I was actually at the 16th Mission BART Station, and I recalled a couple of young juveniles had walked in the train. They sat right behind me, but I started smelling something. It turns out they were just lighting things on fire. I felt very uncomfortable. That ended up having to move to a different train. But, you know, I don’t think that’s the experience that most riders want to have. And I really think that BART to step down on its feet until they fix this issue. I don’t see myself coming back on BART.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I guess coming out of hearing what Jimmy just said. Like it sounds like these changes are an attempt to bring people like Jimmy back onto bar, it sounds like.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>Absolutely. And the thinking, moving from the abstract that I was talking about to the specific now, I mean, the thinking is that if there were a lot of people on that train car, these two people who were doing something that was disturbing and dangerous wouldn’t do that. Now, there are some people who are very bold about what they’ll do, and maybe they wouldn’t be deterred by that. But anyway, that is the theory for sure. And that is a good example, that episode that he’s talking about of the kinds of things that people say they just don’t want to see.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Can you give us a sense of what is going on in the minds of the people running the agency? Like, what is their motivation behind these changes?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>Bottom line, they really need to get writers to return in large numbers much, much larger than they’ve seen so far. The state legislature has also weighed in on this. They want to see real improvements in public transit performance. And BART often comes up in these conversations before the state commits more money to public transit. That is really the long term thinking there. And the reason it’s so particularly important for BART is because historically it has depended on passengers to help run the railroad on a day to day basis. I mean, BART was paying, you know, depending on how you count the dollars, 60 to 70% of its operating costs from passenger fares. And, of course, that has crashed longer term. Voters in the Bay Area in all, nine counties are going to be asked at some point to pass some kind of tax measure that will provide permanent or at least very long term operating support for BART. And BART has to make the case that it’s worth a yes vote when that finally comes to the ballot, probably in 2026.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, I know it’s early, Dan, but do we know anything about whether these changes are actually working?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>Well, based on the first three days of ridership numbers, it seems to be working very, very well. On Monday, they had 158,000 riders, which was the best Monday they’ve had since March 2020. On Tuesday, they had 192,000 riders, which was their best day ever since the pandemic started. And then Wednesday, they were just a hair short of 193,000. So another record. So three days in a row they’ve had what amounts to record ridership. We know that there are things going on. We don’t know the impact of Dreamforce, for instance, this big convention that Salesforce holds in San Francisco, that’s adding to ridership to some extent. We don’t know exactly how much, though.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We did hear from a listener, Michelle from Livermore, who definitely loves BART, but who is, I think, one of the people who’s starting to notice the impact of these changes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Michelle from Livermore \u003c/strong>Just now tonight, I’m coming back from commuting and I know it’s Dreamforce, but with shorter, less amount of cars on the train. Oh my God. It was packed like New York City passed to where the operator had to tell people near the doors to give room so that people could leave as their stops to get out. So it’s going to take a little bit of choreography for people to understand, to move into the center as much as they can. Instead of hanging out by the doors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I love that little bit of choreography. I feel like that’s not something people have really had to think about on board anymore. But now, I mean, I’m like, remember when people would have to take off their backpacks to make room for other people in the bar, Jane’s den.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>That is just what I was thinking of. But what she’s talking about is, is the BART experience people had from, say, 2014 to 20 1819, especially that people didn’t love. But, you know, as Michelle said, it was reminiscent of New York. Guess what? New York is the number one transit friendly, if not entirely transit efficient city on the continent. And, you know, that’s the way you move around masses of people in a dense city. And so we’ll see. I mean, I think this is something BART is going to have to negotiate with its riders somewhat. They have already said that they’re watching crowding statistics very closely and that they will add longer trains as needed as the situation evolves, and especially if riders start to return. And even larger numbers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>People, I think, do want BART to work. And we actually got a voicemail from someone who acknowledges that like, yes, BART is a little rough around the edges, but we do just kind of want it to work. So here’s Gloria from Oakland.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gloria from Oakland \u003c/strong>I have taken public transit as long as I have been getting around independently, kind of inspired by my late father, who always thought, if you want to experience the city, you’ve got to experience a public transit. So I guess I’m a bit of a BART loyalist. Sure, there are some frustrations with the system. I get super mad about delays, broken escalators, dirty cars. BART is not perfect, but I am a loyalist. I am mostly excited about the big changes, saying I hope it helps. BART gets groove back. I really can’t imagine living in the bay without BART.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean, it makes me feel like warm and fuzzy. Like, I don’t know. I feel like BART is such a part of Bay Area life. And I would like for it to be part of Bay Area life in the future as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>And what’s really interesting to me about Gloria’s comment is that somebody who kind of is willing to take the world as it is, she’d like to like it to be a little bit better than she experiences it on BART sometimes. But she recognizes that the service is necessary beyond the simple convenience or maybe the delight that most people want to have in in their daily experiences. You know, this really isn’t just about BART. A lot of transit agencies are facing these big financial challenges, but it’s also about trying to persuade people to use transit instead of driving solo. You know, the Bay Area prides itself on being this transit rich, transit friendly area. But you know what? It really isn’t so much. Only one in 20 trips that people take in a bay area are by transit for commute trips. The most popular way of getting to work for forever has been to drive solo. And so the bigger question is how do you change that? And it’s a big deal. It’s a it’s part of the state’s climate goals. That’s a bigger challenge that is hanging over this entire discussion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, what do you think, Dan? Do you think that in the long run, all these changes are going to help? Is it is it going to be enough to save BART?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>I mean, I think BART in some form is here to stay. You know, it’ll be part of our lives to some extent, you know, ten or 20 or 30 years from now. What will it be like is the question, is it going to be a service that can handle that big commute or is it going to be something that, you know, frankly goes back to its early days where service was actually not very robust? The service was running on a shoestring, and it really isn’t part of people’s daily lives the way it has been in the more recent past. Here we are, three and a half years after that pandemic crash, and BART still isn’t at 50% of its weekday ridership. So BART’s trying to improve its public image, show that it’s responding to rider sentiment and providing the best service that people can reasonably expect.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Dan, thank you so much for chatting with me about BART. I really appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>I really appreciate being asked to chat about it. I love talking to you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Dan Brekke, a transportation editor for KQED. This 40-minute conversation with Dan was cut down and edited by producer Maria Esquinca. Alan Montecillo is our senior editor. He scored this episode and added all the tape. Also, a special shout out to all the Bay listeners who left us voicemails. I really loved hearing from Dave in Orinda. Michelle in Livermore, Denise, Gloria, Paul and Shane in Oakland and Jimmy and Zach out in San Francisco. Thank you so much for making this episode so much fuller. Thanks to your voicemails. And shout out as well to the rest of our podcast squad here at KQED. That’s Jen Chien, our director of podcasts; Katie Sprenger, our podcast operations manager; César Saldaña, our podcast engagement producer. And Holly Kernan, our Chief Content Officer. The Bay is a production of member-supported KQED in San Francisco. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Thanks so much for listening. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">On Monday, BART rolled out a new schedule and changes to its system. They’re calling it a “reimagined” service plan. Combine that with increased police and non-uniformed personnel, and it’s clear that BART is trying to make changes that woo riders back onto its trains. Will it work?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp id=\"embed-code\" class=\"inconsolata\">\n\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC2679903955\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local News to Keep You Rooted. Bad news about BART just doesn’t surprise me anymore. The system has been struggling to get people on its trains again since the pandemic and has been battling a public relations crisis around crime and safety. That plus the delays and all the other problems that regular riders are probably used to seeing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Montage of listener voicemails: \u003c/strong>They often go home for Sunday dinner with the family and it’s often really delayed and it just feels inconsistent. It’s also already way too expensive. I used to actually be a regular BART right here. I do agree with a lot of the sentiment regarding the public that it’s just a little unfair.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>But this week, BART made some big changes to its system and the agency is hoping that it’s enough to bring people back and riders are hoping so, too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Montage of listener voicemails: \u003c/strong>I definitely have noticed the new schedule this week and it’s been a welcome change. Overall, I’d really continue to root for BART and hope that they can figure out their financing. I really hope to see BART fully recover because it is a great service, but I want it to be better and I love it because I know that it’s not the best we deserve, but I want it to be better and it’s the best we have right now. Ugh, I have mixed feelings, I love BART and I hate BART.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Today we’re talking with KQED, Dan Brakey, about all the changes BART just made to its system and the tall order. It’s got to win your heart back. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Dan Brekke is a transportation editor for KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>One of the changes would be that no one would ever have more than a 20 minute wait. That would happen by actually reducing some of the weekdays service on the lesser traveled lines like the line between Richmond and Barry s, for instance, there would be an increase in service on the busiest line, which is the line between Pittsburgh, Bay Point and SFO, San Francisco International Airport. Now the trade off on that line is those trains are running every 10 minutes and those other lines like from Richmond to Barry s, they’re only running every 20 minutes. And if they sort of evened everything out, you could have trains all day, every day, every 20 minutes. It’s a big change. And there are some things that people are not totally in love with yet, but it seems to be working pretty well so far.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>A part of that change, too, is that they’re actually way less of the old legacy BART trains and more of the sort of new ones, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>Yes, that’s exactly right. BART made a sort of big production out of what it called the final trip by a legacy fleet train. These are cars that go back to the very beginning of BART. BART is 51 years old this month, and they’re looking a little beat right now. And so as part of this change service, BART is retiring. Those from regular service, you still may see them. What the service is supposed to feature each and every day for all service hours is it’s the brand new train. You know, these new cars represent a big advance in the customer experience in a lot of ways. But there are some things that people don’t like so much. The seating configuration is different. Some people find the seats too hard and stuff like that. But anyway, you have brand new cars, better ventilation and better signage and announcements and all of that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And then the trains are also going to be shorter, like actually fewer cars, right? What’s that about?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>At the beginning of the pandemic, BART began running almost exclusively ten car trains. And that was because there was this concern about social distancing. There were many fewer people riding, but to make them feel comfortable, the trains were made longer than they typically had been earlier so that people could space themselves out on the cars. But BART is looking at a number of things that make it feel like it needed to change how it was managing those train lengths. So what they’ve done starting this week is to just run shorter trains on most lines like the one from Richmond to Barry S in the East Bay or from Dublin, Pleasanton to Daly City, for instance. They’re cutting the train lengths from the typical ten cars before to six cars. And then on that busy Pittsburgh Bay point to SFO line they’re cutting the train lengths to eight cars. And BART says it’s trying to do several things there. One thing running fewer cars actually saves maintenance costs and makes the system a little cheaper to run. They have fewer cars to clean. They can process a lot more of them a lot more quickly. They also say it will be easier to police the trains with both uniformed police officers, fare inspectors, crisis intervention specialists and community ambassadors that it’s easier to manage the shorter trains. And then there’s the idea that having shorter trains means, of course, the crowding is going to be more of a factor. There’s a denser population and having more people on the cars will discourage people from doing things that other passengers might not like so much. And finally, having the shorter trains means that people, when they want to ride in the front car, for instance, to be near a train operator, This is an issue for women passengers especially. They don’t have to wait all the way at the end of a lonely platform to do that. So that’s what BART’s up to with the shorter trains.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I do feel like most of the talk about BART lately has been pretty negative. I mean, everyone kind of keeps talking about these fears of safety on BART, and I want to play this one voicemail that we actually got from Jimmy from San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Jimmy from San Francisco \u003c/strong>One traumatic experience I remember actually was not too long ago, I was actually at the 16th Mission BART Station, and I recalled a couple of young juveniles had walked in the train. They sat right behind me, but I started smelling something. It turns out they were just lighting things on fire. I felt very uncomfortable. That ended up having to move to a different train. But, you know, I don’t think that’s the experience that most riders want to have. And I really think that BART to step down on its feet until they fix this issue. I don’t see myself coming back on BART.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I guess coming out of hearing what Jimmy just said. Like it sounds like these changes are an attempt to bring people like Jimmy back onto bar, it sounds like.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>Absolutely. And the thinking, moving from the abstract that I was talking about to the specific now, I mean, the thinking is that if there were a lot of people on that train car, these two people who were doing something that was disturbing and dangerous wouldn’t do that. Now, there are some people who are very bold about what they’ll do, and maybe they wouldn’t be deterred by that. But anyway, that is the theory for sure. And that is a good example, that episode that he’s talking about of the kinds of things that people say they just don’t want to see.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Can you give us a sense of what is going on in the minds of the people running the agency? Like, what is their motivation behind these changes?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>Bottom line, they really need to get writers to return in large numbers much, much larger than they’ve seen so far. The state legislature has also weighed in on this. They want to see real improvements in public transit performance. And BART often comes up in these conversations before the state commits more money to public transit. That is really the long term thinking there. And the reason it’s so particularly important for BART is because historically it has depended on passengers to help run the railroad on a day to day basis. I mean, BART was paying, you know, depending on how you count the dollars, 60 to 70% of its operating costs from passenger fares. And, of course, that has crashed longer term. Voters in the Bay Area in all, nine counties are going to be asked at some point to pass some kind of tax measure that will provide permanent or at least very long term operating support for BART. And BART has to make the case that it’s worth a yes vote when that finally comes to the ballot, probably in 2026.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, I know it’s early, Dan, but do we know anything about whether these changes are actually working?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>Well, based on the first three days of ridership numbers, it seems to be working very, very well. On Monday, they had 158,000 riders, which was the best Monday they’ve had since March 2020. On Tuesday, they had 192,000 riders, which was their best day ever since the pandemic started. And then Wednesday, they were just a hair short of 193,000. So another record. So three days in a row they’ve had what amounts to record ridership. We know that there are things going on. We don’t know the impact of Dreamforce, for instance, this big convention that Salesforce holds in San Francisco, that’s adding to ridership to some extent. We don’t know exactly how much, though.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>We did hear from a listener, Michelle from Livermore, who definitely loves BART, but who is, I think, one of the people who’s starting to notice the impact of these changes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Michelle from Livermore \u003c/strong>Just now tonight, I’m coming back from commuting and I know it’s Dreamforce, but with shorter, less amount of cars on the train. Oh my God. It was packed like New York City passed to where the operator had to tell people near the doors to give room so that people could leave as their stops to get out. So it’s going to take a little bit of choreography for people to understand, to move into the center as much as they can. Instead of hanging out by the doors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I love that little bit of choreography. I feel like that’s not something people have really had to think about on board anymore. But now, I mean, I’m like, remember when people would have to take off their backpacks to make room for other people in the bar, Jane’s den.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>That is just what I was thinking of. But what she’s talking about is, is the BART experience people had from, say, 2014 to 20 1819, especially that people didn’t love. But, you know, as Michelle said, it was reminiscent of New York. Guess what? New York is the number one transit friendly, if not entirely transit efficient city on the continent. And, you know, that’s the way you move around masses of people in a dense city. And so we’ll see. I mean, I think this is something BART is going to have to negotiate with its riders somewhat. They have already said that they’re watching crowding statistics very closely and that they will add longer trains as needed as the situation evolves, and especially if riders start to return. And even larger numbers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>People, I think, do want BART to work. And we actually got a voicemail from someone who acknowledges that like, yes, BART is a little rough around the edges, but we do just kind of want it to work. So here’s Gloria from Oakland.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Gloria from Oakland \u003c/strong>I have taken public transit as long as I have been getting around independently, kind of inspired by my late father, who always thought, if you want to experience the city, you’ve got to experience a public transit. So I guess I’m a bit of a BART loyalist. Sure, there are some frustrations with the system. I get super mad about delays, broken escalators, dirty cars. BART is not perfect, but I am a loyalist. I am mostly excited about the big changes, saying I hope it helps. BART gets groove back. I really can’t imagine living in the bay without BART.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean, it makes me feel like warm and fuzzy. Like, I don’t know. I feel like BART is such a part of Bay Area life. And I would like for it to be part of Bay Area life in the future as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>And what’s really interesting to me about Gloria’s comment is that somebody who kind of is willing to take the world as it is, she’d like to like it to be a little bit better than she experiences it on BART sometimes. But she recognizes that the service is necessary beyond the simple convenience or maybe the delight that most people want to have in in their daily experiences. You know, this really isn’t just about BART. A lot of transit agencies are facing these big financial challenges, but it’s also about trying to persuade people to use transit instead of driving solo. You know, the Bay Area prides itself on being this transit rich, transit friendly area. But you know what? It really isn’t so much. Only one in 20 trips that people take in a bay area are by transit for commute trips. The most popular way of getting to work for forever has been to drive solo. And so the bigger question is how do you change that? And it’s a big deal. It’s a it’s part of the state’s climate goals. That’s a bigger challenge that is hanging over this entire discussion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, what do you think, Dan? Do you think that in the long run, all these changes are going to help? Is it is it going to be enough to save BART?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>I mean, I think BART in some form is here to stay. You know, it’ll be part of our lives to some extent, you know, ten or 20 or 30 years from now. What will it be like is the question, is it going to be a service that can handle that big commute or is it going to be something that, you know, frankly goes back to its early days where service was actually not very robust? The service was running on a shoestring, and it really isn’t part of people’s daily lives the way it has been in the more recent past. Here we are, three and a half years after that pandemic crash, and BART still isn’t at 50% of its weekday ridership. So BART’s trying to improve its public image, show that it’s responding to rider sentiment and providing the best service that people can reasonably expect.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, Dan, thank you so much for chatting with me about BART. I really appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Dan Brekke: \u003c/strong>I really appreciate being asked to chat about it. I love talking to you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Dan Brekke, a transportation editor for KQED. This 40-minute conversation with Dan was cut down and edited by producer Maria Esquinca. Alan Montecillo is our senior editor. He scored this episode and added all the tape. Also, a special shout out to all the Bay listeners who left us voicemails. I really loved hearing from Dave in Orinda. Michelle in Livermore, Denise, Gloria, Paul and Shane in Oakland and Jimmy and Zach out in San Francisco. Thank you so much for making this episode so much fuller. Thanks to your voicemails. And shout out as well to the rest of our podcast squad here at KQED. That’s Jen Chien, our director of podcasts; Katie Sprenger, our podcast operations manager; César Saldaña, our podcast engagement producer. And Holly Kernan, our Chief Content Officer. The Bay is a production of member-supported KQED in San Francisco. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Thanks so much for listening. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"title": "Nancy Pelosi is Running Again. Should She Step Aside?",
"headTitle": "Nancy Pelosi is Running Again. Should She Step Aside? | KQED",
"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On Friday, Nancy Pelosi — former Speaker, minority leader, and representative in Congress since 1987 — announced plans to run again. KQED’s Marisa Lagos breaks down what this means for San Francisco amid debate over when a politician’s time is up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC9745622391\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>From KQED, I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local News to Keep You Rooted. Nancy Pelosi has represented San Francisco in Congress since before I was even born. And everyone knows who she is. She’s a leader of the Democratic Party. Speaker of the House and Republicans most favorite punching bag.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Political Ad Montage: \u003c/strong>First, Nancy Pelosi said she’d raise taxes. Now she’s coming for whatever you’ve got left to help pay for trillions in Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, they run Washington completely. A rubber stamp for Nancy Pelosi’s disastrous economics…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>On Friday, Pelosi announced plans to run to represent San Francisco in Congress for a 20th term. And it’s coming at a time when lots of people want to see some fresh, new leadership in politics. Today, the local and national impact of Pelosi’s decision to run again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Marisa, I know people have been speculating about whether Nancy Pelosi would retire, as we were just talking about. She’s 83 years old. What did she say about why she’s staying in the game?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>I would say she sort of couched this in both local and kind of national terms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Marisa Lagos is a political correspondent for KQED and co-host of the Political Breakdown podcast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>She talked about San Francisco values and her desire to kind of help the city with the big challenges it’s facing around the fentanyl crisis, around homelessness and housing. But then she also gave a nod to the kind of bigger forces at play here, democracy being at risk, really wanting to, I think, help, you know, Democrats win not just the House back, but keep the White House in 2024. You know, she spoke on MSNBC pretty soon after making this announcement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>So I am motivated to do everything I can to win this election. I think it’s urgent for our democracy, for our relationships worldwide, and more importantly, for every kitchen table discussion in our country about America’s working families.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So that’s sort of what she says officially. But what’s your sort of take on it? Why is she really running again right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>You know, Ericka, I’ve tried to get inside Nancy Pelosi’s head, and I think I have some ideas just from talking to folks around her. I think one is that she is still on top of her game.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>When you compare the way she’s operating to somebody, you know, like Dianne Feinstein, who’s had so much attention on her health, Pelosi has had, as far as we know, zero health problems. She’s super sharp. I think she’s kind of enjoying herself. She’s been a little bit unshackled. Now that she’s not the leader of the Democratic caucus. She can kind of speak her mind. And and I think probably it’s an easier and more fun job. It’s probably also really hard to step back and take yourself out of being in the mix and being so relevant. Right. She’s been doing this for basically most of my lifetime, and I think that that’s a hard thing to give up. And then I do think that there’s a lot of truth to this idea that she feels like this is a moment where she’s needed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>If you see the actions of the Republicans in Congress, you know that we have to win the election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>You see this kind of similar vibe between her and Joe Biden, which is I think they see Donald Trump and the current Republican Party as such a threat. I think they feel like this is not the time for somebody with that level of experience, fundraising, prowess, all those things to kind of disappear.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>I don’t want to see any underutilized resources, any wasted time or any regrets the day after the election that we all didn’t do everything in our power to protect and defend, to make sure that our flag is still there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>I also think that to some extent, the attack on her husband, that horrible attack on Paul Pelosi, kind of strengthened her resolve as well and made her want to stay in the game.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah. I mean, I was going to ask you about that because I remember seeing that and thinking like, geez, like why would anyone of her stature want to remain in the spotlight after something like that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>Right. I mean, any attack would have been horrific. But this man broke into their home in the middle of the night looking for her. And I agree with you. I think normal people would say, oh, maybe I’m done. Politicians aren’t normal people. Let’s be real. Right. And I think and I do think for her, she has this history of being this punching bag for the right. And the way she’s always handled it is not to kind of shrink back from that. It’s to kind of rise to that occasion. It made her feel like, no, I’m not going to back down. Like, I’m not going to be bullied. I think as a woman of her age and generation and all the barriers she’s broken, like you can see how she’s often sort of run towards a challenge. And I think that this sort of tracks with that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I mean, she’s probably going to win again, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>I mean, she won with 84% of the vote last time, so I’m guessing it’ll be a walk in the park.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, let’s talk about the local reaction to this news, Marisa. How would you characterize the general mood around Nancy Pelosi’s decision to run for Congress again?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>I think among the general public, it’s a kind of mixed bag. I do think people are seeing her in the context of the Dianne Feinstein and Mitch McConnell’s and Joe Biden’s of the world, who, you know, polls show people feel like it’s time for them to move on. And so when you talk about a new generation of leadership, even if Pelosi is super energetic, I think it’s hard for a lot of people, especially on the younger side, to not see this as just another delay of this long, drawn out changing of the guard. She promised in 2018 that she would step aside as leader. So this is not like a new conversation. So I think what I’m hearing kind of in the more general public is some frustration. That said, again, I think most of those people will still vote for her come next November.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, what about the political class? How are people reacting locally to Pelosi’s decision to run again?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>So publicly, almost universally positive. I actually went on Friday to an Emily’s List lunch. This is a progressive women’s group that helps fund, raise and kind of seed campaigns. And I talked to Lateefah Simon, who is currently a bar board member and is running for Barbara Lee’s seat in Congress.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>You know, I’m going to be in Congress soon, and I need the Maxine Waters, the Representative Clyburn, the Nancy Pelosi. It’s going to lead us to this next stage of battling to get some of the most basic rights for women back to security is on the line. The attack on trans kids. I mean.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>Lateefah is, you know, in her forties, young black woman, I think sort of part of this new generation of leadership and super progressive. And she, I think it’s fair to say, seemed pretty stoked.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>About what a thrill to be able to be a phone call away, a couple of desks away from women who have fought and won huge victories for families. It’s exciting and it would be an honor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Did anyone voice concern publicly about Pelosi’s decision to run again?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>So I think, again, a lot of people are not eager to kind of say anything very publicly negative about Pelosi. I did, however, talk to Aimee Allison. She runs she the People, which is really dedicated to get women of color specifically into public office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>For those of us who want to see a new generation of leaders, it’s hard. 2024.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>Amy was circumspect. It’s not as if she was negative per se, but she did call it kind of disappointing. You know, talking about the desire to see this handing of the baton.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>We do need a new generation of leadership that looks like who lives in California, in the country. And that’s going to require people in their eighties to make space. And I’m not saying anything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>She probably speaks for a lot of people who, again, are not mad at Pelosi specifically, but are just frustrated by the broader political landscape right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>We can’t have in San Francisco or the Bay Area or anywhere in California, frankly, we can’t have the kind of generational leadership that continues on and on. Not only is it not possible, but it’s not a winning formula. So what I hope is that next.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, I know that in the meantime, there are some people who are sort of left waiting in the wings, maybe waiting for Pelosi to retire so that they could get their chance. So who are some of the younger folks locally who have been eyeing her seat?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I would say the two names that come up are State Senator Scott Wiener from San Francisco. Previous member of the Board of Supervisors has been a big leader on transit and transportation and housing and LGBT issues in Sacramento. He has made very clear that he does intend to run when Pelosi steps down and did say immediately on Friday that since she is running again, he’ll run for his seat again in the state Senate. The other big name is one that you might find familiar, Christine Pelosi, one of Nancy Pelosi’s children. She’s an activist in local Democratic politics, has been really out there on the MeToo movement. And she’s served on the Democratic Party here locally for many years as a lawyer and I think obviously is hopeful that her name might give her a little bit of a leg up. What’s fascinating to me is the kind of political dominoes, Game of Thrones, however you want to call it, that any sort of seat like this would create. So if Scott Weiner ran for Congress, Assembly member Matt Haney is thought to want to run for his Senate seat. San Francisco Supervisor Rafael Mandel man is thought to want to run for Haney’s seat. So you have, I think, her decision impacting not just the folks that are eyeing that congressional district, but everybody else who’s kind of waiting to see this stuff open up. And I think that that’s why we’ve seen in San Francisco in recent years some really brutal kind of Democrat on Democrat races. It’s because in some ways, a lot of these seats have not opened open in so long. These folks have been waiting already and this just delays it even further.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean, this question of whether it’s time. Pelosi has been in office for more than 35 years. I mean, is that too long for someone to be in office?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>It’s a good question. I was six when she was first elected to Congress, so I now have two children older than that. So, you know, it’s it’s been a minute. It’s a long time. And I think that this is why you do hear some conversations about the question of, you know, age limits or some sort of term limits in Congress. But I do think that it’s an open question. And I think a lot of people are looking at somebody like her and wondering that same thing and kind of asking not just is it time for a new leadership, but like can people be effective after that long in office? But I have never seen a legitimate attempt in my time covering politics the last couple of decades to actually rein that in or do anything about it. Right. I feel like we’re talking about it now, but I haven’t seen anything concrete to actually sort of start that process and.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Marisa, Nancy Pelosi is this very national figure, but she has also represented San Francisco all this time. What are some of the big political winds of her career that have been felt here in the bay and in San Francisco in particular? Like what’s her local impact been over the years?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>I mean, I will start with one that’s national but impacts all of us, which is the Affordable Care Act. That really was her crowning legislative achievement. Obviously, President Obama and Vice President Joe Biden deserve a lot of credit for that, but she really shepherded that through the Congress. But on the local level, I would say it’s the cheddar, baby. I mean, she brings home the money for the Bay Area. You know, if you look at our big infrastructure projects, transit, all of that sort of thing has been a big player. I think the most visible and sort of concrete thing you can look at is the Presidio. That would not exist as a national park if it were not for Nancy Pelosi. The federal government wanted to essentially sell it off to developers, and she stepped in and brokered this deal that said, look, it’ll become a national park, but it has to become self-sufficient. As you probably know, if you’ve been to the tunnel, top parks like it is continued to grow and really is one of the city’s crown jewels. And I’m looking back in time and I think this is something people in our generation might not even know or have forgotten is what a leader she was around the AIDS HIV crisis when she got to Congress. This was not an issue that most people in Washington, D.C. wanted to talk about. And despite her kind of Catholic background and the fact that she’s this like comes off to some people is so like establishment. She was a real leader in that and was very vocal from the minute she got to D.C. And so I do think that the LGBT community still really looks at her as a trailblazer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean, I do think it is interesting that she was sort of this trailblazer when she first entered Congress, but now she really is sort of seen as someone who is very much part of the establishment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>She is part of the establishment. Like you can’t deny that regardless of whether she’s a pretty progressive member of the establishment or not. So I do think there’s times that she is not always in lockstep with the pulse of the city, per se. I mean, clearly, she is part of the establishment that has presided over the city for the past few decades as a lot of the problems she’s talking about trying to solve have gotten worse. That said, I think until this term, she’s kind of had the luxury of staying out of a lot of local issues, not that she hasn’t been involved again, behind closed doors, but you have not seen her out there being a pundit on a lot of the San Francisco debates over the past couple of decades. I think that’s probably largely because of her role as speaker and minority leader. You know, when you are representing a caucus of over 200 people from very diverse districts. You don’t get to be the San Francisco liberal all the time. Right? Like, you have to kind of look at things through the lens of how do I keep this group together? How do we win? It’s been kind of interesting to see her over the past year, get a little more involved, be a little more willing to weigh in on some of the local stuff. I mean, there’s certainly critics of her and her wealth and the money her husband has made and questions about that. But I do think a lot of those questions have been raised by people who already don’t agree with her politically.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How do you think having a representative who is this like big national figure, how how do you think that’s different from having a congressperson to represent you who’s maybe like not as well known? I mean, I feel like no one really thinks of her as like just this representative from San Francisco. Right. Like, she’s Nancy Pelosi. Like not everyone has a congressperson to represent them who’s as famous as her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>No. Thank God, because there’s 435 of them. Right. We don’t have time to talk, I think in ways probably unseen to most of us. It matters even when Pelosi is not in the majority. I mean, Joe Biden’s going to take her phone call. She has a lot of power and just the longevity that exist when you’re in Washington for that long and, you know the people at the agencies and you know who to call and you have seniority within your caucus. Certainly when Nancy Pelosi steps down, it’s going to change the dynamic for San Francisco. There is a changing of the guard happening, and there’s going to be ways that that’s probably super great and exciting for people. And there might be ways that it makes things a little more challenging to advocate for resources or for power on committees. We are going to be in the next, let’s say, five years entering a place where we have two fairly junior senators from California and a lot of turnover within the congressional delegation. So it’ll be fascinating to watch.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Marisa, thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>My pleasure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Marisa Lagos, a political correspondent for KQED and co-host of the Political Breakdown podcast, which you can find wherever you are listening to the Bay. This 25 minute conversation with Marisa was cut down and edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. I produced this one, scored it and added all the tape. If you liked this episode, consider sharing it with a friend. Word of mouth is one of the best ways that you can help our show grow. Thank you so much for listening to The Bay, a production of KQED in San Francisco. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On Friday, Nancy Pelosi — former Speaker, minority leader, and representative in Congress since 1987 — announced plans to run again. KQED’s Marisa Lagos breaks down what this means for San Francisco amid debate over when a politician’s time is up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC9745622391\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>From KQED, I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra, and welcome to The Bay. Local News to Keep You Rooted. Nancy Pelosi has represented San Francisco in Congress since before I was even born. And everyone knows who she is. She’s a leader of the Democratic Party. Speaker of the House and Republicans most favorite punching bag.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Political Ad Montage: \u003c/strong>First, Nancy Pelosi said she’d raise taxes. Now she’s coming for whatever you’ve got left to help pay for trillions in Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, they run Washington completely. A rubber stamp for Nancy Pelosi’s disastrous economics…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>On Friday, Pelosi announced plans to run to represent San Francisco in Congress for a 20th term. And it’s coming at a time when lots of people want to see some fresh, new leadership in politics. Today, the local and national impact of Pelosi’s decision to run again.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Marisa, I know people have been speculating about whether Nancy Pelosi would retire, as we were just talking about. She’s 83 years old. What did she say about why she’s staying in the game?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>I would say she sort of couched this in both local and kind of national terms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Marisa Lagos is a political correspondent for KQED and co-host of the Political Breakdown podcast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>She talked about San Francisco values and her desire to kind of help the city with the big challenges it’s facing around the fentanyl crisis, around homelessness and housing. But then she also gave a nod to the kind of bigger forces at play here, democracy being at risk, really wanting to, I think, help, you know, Democrats win not just the House back, but keep the White House in 2024. You know, she spoke on MSNBC pretty soon after making this announcement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>So I am motivated to do everything I can to win this election. I think it’s urgent for our democracy, for our relationships worldwide, and more importantly, for every kitchen table discussion in our country about America’s working families.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>So that’s sort of what she says officially. But what’s your sort of take on it? Why is she really running again right now?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>You know, Ericka, I’ve tried to get inside Nancy Pelosi’s head, and I think I have some ideas just from talking to folks around her. I think one is that she is still on top of her game.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>When you compare the way she’s operating to somebody, you know, like Dianne Feinstein, who’s had so much attention on her health, Pelosi has had, as far as we know, zero health problems. She’s super sharp. I think she’s kind of enjoying herself. She’s been a little bit unshackled. Now that she’s not the leader of the Democratic caucus. She can kind of speak her mind. And and I think probably it’s an easier and more fun job. It’s probably also really hard to step back and take yourself out of being in the mix and being so relevant. Right. She’s been doing this for basically most of my lifetime, and I think that that’s a hard thing to give up. And then I do think that there’s a lot of truth to this idea that she feels like this is a moment where she’s needed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>If you see the actions of the Republicans in Congress, you know that we have to win the election.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>You see this kind of similar vibe between her and Joe Biden, which is I think they see Donald Trump and the current Republican Party as such a threat. I think they feel like this is not the time for somebody with that level of experience, fundraising, prowess, all those things to kind of disappear.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>I don’t want to see any underutilized resources, any wasted time or any regrets the day after the election that we all didn’t do everything in our power to protect and defend, to make sure that our flag is still there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>I also think that to some extent, the attack on her husband, that horrible attack on Paul Pelosi, kind of strengthened her resolve as well and made her want to stay in the game.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Yeah. I mean, I was going to ask you about that because I remember seeing that and thinking like, geez, like why would anyone of her stature want to remain in the spotlight after something like that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>Right. I mean, any attack would have been horrific. But this man broke into their home in the middle of the night looking for her. And I agree with you. I think normal people would say, oh, maybe I’m done. Politicians aren’t normal people. Let’s be real. Right. And I think and I do think for her, she has this history of being this punching bag for the right. And the way she’s always handled it is not to kind of shrink back from that. It’s to kind of rise to that occasion. It made her feel like, no, I’m not going to back down. Like, I’m not going to be bullied. I think as a woman of her age and generation and all the barriers she’s broken, like you can see how she’s often sort of run towards a challenge. And I think that this sort of tracks with that.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>And I mean, she’s probably going to win again, right?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>I mean, she won with 84% of the vote last time, so I’m guessing it’ll be a walk in the park.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, let’s talk about the local reaction to this news, Marisa. How would you characterize the general mood around Nancy Pelosi’s decision to run for Congress again?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>I think among the general public, it’s a kind of mixed bag. I do think people are seeing her in the context of the Dianne Feinstein and Mitch McConnell’s and Joe Biden’s of the world, who, you know, polls show people feel like it’s time for them to move on. And so when you talk about a new generation of leadership, even if Pelosi is super energetic, I think it’s hard for a lot of people, especially on the younger side, to not see this as just another delay of this long, drawn out changing of the guard. She promised in 2018 that she would step aside as leader. So this is not like a new conversation. So I think what I’m hearing kind of in the more general public is some frustration. That said, again, I think most of those people will still vote for her come next November.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, what about the political class? How are people reacting locally to Pelosi’s decision to run again?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>So publicly, almost universally positive. I actually went on Friday to an Emily’s List lunch. This is a progressive women’s group that helps fund, raise and kind of seed campaigns. And I talked to Lateefah Simon, who is currently a bar board member and is running for Barbara Lee’s seat in Congress.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>You know, I’m going to be in Congress soon, and I need the Maxine Waters, the Representative Clyburn, the Nancy Pelosi. It’s going to lead us to this next stage of battling to get some of the most basic rights for women back to security is on the line. The attack on trans kids. I mean.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>Lateefah is, you know, in her forties, young black woman, I think sort of part of this new generation of leadership and super progressive. And she, I think it’s fair to say, seemed pretty stoked.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>About what a thrill to be able to be a phone call away, a couple of desks away from women who have fought and won huge victories for families. It’s exciting and it would be an honor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Did anyone voice concern publicly about Pelosi’s decision to run again?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>So I think, again, a lot of people are not eager to kind of say anything very publicly negative about Pelosi. I did, however, talk to Aimee Allison. She runs she the People, which is really dedicated to get women of color specifically into public office.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>For those of us who want to see a new generation of leaders, it’s hard. 2024.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>Amy was circumspect. It’s not as if she was negative per se, but she did call it kind of disappointing. You know, talking about the desire to see this handing of the baton.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>We do need a new generation of leadership that looks like who lives in California, in the country. And that’s going to require people in their eighties to make space. And I’m not saying anything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>She probably speaks for a lot of people who, again, are not mad at Pelosi specifically, but are just frustrated by the broader political landscape right now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>We can’t have in San Francisco or the Bay Area or anywhere in California, frankly, we can’t have the kind of generational leadership that continues on and on. Not only is it not possible, but it’s not a winning formula. So what I hope is that next.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Well, I know that in the meantime, there are some people who are sort of left waiting in the wings, maybe waiting for Pelosi to retire so that they could get their chance. So who are some of the younger folks locally who have been eyeing her seat?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>Yeah, I would say the two names that come up are State Senator Scott Wiener from San Francisco. Previous member of the Board of Supervisors has been a big leader on transit and transportation and housing and LGBT issues in Sacramento. He has made very clear that he does intend to run when Pelosi steps down and did say immediately on Friday that since she is running again, he’ll run for his seat again in the state Senate. The other big name is one that you might find familiar, Christine Pelosi, one of Nancy Pelosi’s children. She’s an activist in local Democratic politics, has been really out there on the MeToo movement. And she’s served on the Democratic Party here locally for many years as a lawyer and I think obviously is hopeful that her name might give her a little bit of a leg up. What’s fascinating to me is the kind of political dominoes, Game of Thrones, however you want to call it, that any sort of seat like this would create. So if Scott Weiner ran for Congress, Assembly member Matt Haney is thought to want to run for his Senate seat. San Francisco Supervisor Rafael Mandel man is thought to want to run for Haney’s seat. So you have, I think, her decision impacting not just the folks that are eyeing that congressional district, but everybody else who’s kind of waiting to see this stuff open up. And I think that that’s why we’ve seen in San Francisco in recent years some really brutal kind of Democrat on Democrat races. It’s because in some ways, a lot of these seats have not opened open in so long. These folks have been waiting already and this just delays it even further.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean, this question of whether it’s time. Pelosi has been in office for more than 35 years. I mean, is that too long for someone to be in office?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>It’s a good question. I was six when she was first elected to Congress, so I now have two children older than that. So, you know, it’s it’s been a minute. It’s a long time. And I think that this is why you do hear some conversations about the question of, you know, age limits or some sort of term limits in Congress. But I do think that it’s an open question. And I think a lot of people are looking at somebody like her and wondering that same thing and kind of asking not just is it time for a new leadership, but like can people be effective after that long in office? But I have never seen a legitimate attempt in my time covering politics the last couple of decades to actually rein that in or do anything about it. Right. I feel like we’re talking about it now, but I haven’t seen anything concrete to actually sort of start that process and.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Marisa, Nancy Pelosi is this very national figure, but she has also represented San Francisco all this time. What are some of the big political winds of her career that have been felt here in the bay and in San Francisco in particular? Like what’s her local impact been over the years?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>I mean, I will start with one that’s national but impacts all of us, which is the Affordable Care Act. That really was her crowning legislative achievement. Obviously, President Obama and Vice President Joe Biden deserve a lot of credit for that, but she really shepherded that through the Congress. But on the local level, I would say it’s the cheddar, baby. I mean, she brings home the money for the Bay Area. You know, if you look at our big infrastructure projects, transit, all of that sort of thing has been a big player. I think the most visible and sort of concrete thing you can look at is the Presidio. That would not exist as a national park if it were not for Nancy Pelosi. The federal government wanted to essentially sell it off to developers, and she stepped in and brokered this deal that said, look, it’ll become a national park, but it has to become self-sufficient. As you probably know, if you’ve been to the tunnel, top parks like it is continued to grow and really is one of the city’s crown jewels. And I’m looking back in time and I think this is something people in our generation might not even know or have forgotten is what a leader she was around the AIDS HIV crisis when she got to Congress. This was not an issue that most people in Washington, D.C. wanted to talk about. And despite her kind of Catholic background and the fact that she’s this like comes off to some people is so like establishment. She was a real leader in that and was very vocal from the minute she got to D.C. And so I do think that the LGBT community still really looks at her as a trailblazer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>I mean, I do think it is interesting that she was sort of this trailblazer when she first entered Congress, but now she really is sort of seen as someone who is very much part of the establishment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>She is part of the establishment. Like you can’t deny that regardless of whether she’s a pretty progressive member of the establishment or not. So I do think there’s times that she is not always in lockstep with the pulse of the city, per se. I mean, clearly, she is part of the establishment that has presided over the city for the past few decades as a lot of the problems she’s talking about trying to solve have gotten worse. That said, I think until this term, she’s kind of had the luxury of staying out of a lot of local issues, not that she hasn’t been involved again, behind closed doors, but you have not seen her out there being a pundit on a lot of the San Francisco debates over the past couple of decades. I think that’s probably largely because of her role as speaker and minority leader. You know, when you are representing a caucus of over 200 people from very diverse districts. You don’t get to be the San Francisco liberal all the time. Right? Like, you have to kind of look at things through the lens of how do I keep this group together? How do we win? It’s been kind of interesting to see her over the past year, get a little more involved, be a little more willing to weigh in on some of the local stuff. I mean, there’s certainly critics of her and her wealth and the money her husband has made and questions about that. But I do think a lot of those questions have been raised by people who already don’t agree with her politically.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>How do you think having a representative who is this like big national figure, how how do you think that’s different from having a congressperson to represent you who’s maybe like not as well known? I mean, I feel like no one really thinks of her as like just this representative from San Francisco. Right. Like, she’s Nancy Pelosi. Like not everyone has a congressperson to represent them who’s as famous as her.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>No. Thank God, because there’s 435 of them. Right. We don’t have time to talk, I think in ways probably unseen to most of us. It matters even when Pelosi is not in the majority. I mean, Joe Biden’s going to take her phone call. She has a lot of power and just the longevity that exist when you’re in Washington for that long and, you know the people at the agencies and you know who to call and you have seniority within your caucus. Certainly when Nancy Pelosi steps down, it’s going to change the dynamic for San Francisco. There is a changing of the guard happening, and there’s going to be ways that that’s probably super great and exciting for people. And there might be ways that it makes things a little more challenging to advocate for resources or for power on committees. We are going to be in the next, let’s say, five years entering a place where we have two fairly junior senators from California and a lot of turnover within the congressional delegation. So it’ll be fascinating to watch.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>Marisa, thank you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Marisa Lagos: \u003c/strong>My pleasure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cstrong>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/strong>That was Marisa Lagos, a political correspondent for KQED and co-host of the Political Breakdown podcast, which you can find wherever you are listening to the Bay. This 25 minute conversation with Marisa was cut down and edited by senior editor Alan Montecillo. I produced this one, scored it and added all the tape. If you liked this episode, consider sharing it with a friend. Word of mouth is one of the best ways that you can help our show grow. Thank you so much for listening to The Bay, a production of KQED in San Francisco. I’m Ericka Cruz Guevarra. Peace.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp style=\"font-weight: 400\">\n\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"tagline": "The flip side of gentrification, told through one town",
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},
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"tagline": "Exploring the Bay Area, one question at a time",
"info": "KQED’s new podcast, Bay Curious, gets to the bottom of the mysteries — both profound and peculiar — that give the Bay Area its unique identity. And we’ll do it with your help! You ask the questions. You decide what Bay Curious investigates. And you join us on the journey to find the answers.",
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},
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"info": "KQED’s statewide radio news program providing daily coverage of issues, trends and public policy decisions.",
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"order": 8
},
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},
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"order": 1
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"info": "\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em>, which listeners will hear in the first part of the hour, has fearless and much-needed conversations about race. Hosted by journalists of color, the show tackles the subject of race head-on, exploring how it impacts every part of society — from politics and pop culture to history, sports and more.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em>, which will be in the second part of the hour, guides you through spaces and feelings no one prepares you for — from finances to mental health, from workplace microaggressions to imposter syndrome, from relationships to parenting. The show features experts with real world experience and shares their knowledge. Because everyone needs a little help being human.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510312/codeswitch\">\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/lifekit\">\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />",
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"id": "commonwealth-club",
"title": "Commonwealth Club of California Podcast",
"info": "The Commonwealth Club of California is the nation's oldest and largest public affairs forum. As a non-partisan forum, The Club brings to the public airwaves diverse viewpoints on important topics. The Club's weekly radio broadcast - the oldest in the U.S., dating back to 1924 - is carried across the nation on public radio stations and is now podcasting. Our website archive features audio of our recent programs, as well as selected speeches from our long and distinguished history. This podcast feed is usually updated twice a week and is always un-edited.",
"airtime": "THU 10pm, FRI 1am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Commonwealth-Club-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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"source": "Commonwealth Club of California"
},
"link": "/radio/program/commonwealth-club",
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"info": "KQED’s live call-in program discussing local, state, national and international issues, as well as in-depth interviews.",
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"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Forum-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"order": 9
},
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"hidden-brain": {
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"airtime": "SUN 7pm-8pm",
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"source": "NPR"
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"airtime": "SUN 7:30pm-8pm",
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"tagline": "Where conversation and cultura meet",
"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
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"title": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown",
"tagline": "Lessons from a lifetime in politics",
"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game – and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
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"order": 18
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},
"latino-usa": {
"id": "latino-usa",
"title": "Latino USA",
"airtime": "MON 1am-2am, SUN 6pm-7pm",
"info": "Latino USA, the radio journal of news and culture, is the only national, English-language radio program produced from a Latino perspective.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/latinoUsa.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://latinousa.org/",
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},
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},
"marketplace": {
"id": "marketplace",
"title": "Marketplace",
"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 4pm-4:30pm, MON-WED 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Marketplace-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.marketplace.org/",
"meta": {
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"source": "American Public Media"
},
"link": "/radio/program/marketplace",
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"rss": "https://feeds.publicradio.org/public_feeds/marketplace-pm/rss/rss"
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},
"masters-of-scale": {
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"title": "Masters of Scale",
"info": "Masters of Scale is an original podcast in which LinkedIn co-founder and Greylock Partner Reid Hoffman sets out to describe and prove theories that explain how great entrepreneurs take their companies from zero to a gazillion in ingenious fashion.",
"airtime": "Every other Wednesday June 12 through October 16 at 8pm (repeats Thursdays at 2am)",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "https://mastersofscale.com/",
"meta": {
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"source": "WaitWhat"
},
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"rss": "https://rss.art19.com/masters-of-scale"
}
},
"mindshift": {
"id": "mindshift",
"title": "MindShift",
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"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
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