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"content": "\u003cp>A company with ties to the tech industry is seeking to bypass regulatory and environmental red tape to build an independently governed, AI-focused city within \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/alameda-county\">Alameda\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a \u003ca href=\"https://x.com/_FrontierValley/status/1934346142986469864\">thread posted on X\u003c/a> Sunday from Frontier Valley, the company’s founder, James Ingallinera, called on President Donald Trump to declare a national security emergency and immediately approve development on a 512-acre parcel of federally owned land at Alameda Point, the former site of \u003ca href=\"https://www.bracpmo.navy.mil/BRAC-Bases/California/Former-Naval-Air-Station-Alameda/\">Naval Air Station Alameda\u003c/a>. The goal, Ingallinera said, is to accelerate the development of AI and robotics and to foster technology supremacy for the United States.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This is the Manhattan project of our time,” Ingallinera said in a \u003ca href=\"https://x.com/_FrontierValley/status/1934346177388106033\">promotional video\u003c/a> filmed at Alameda Point. “If we fail to rise to the occasion right now, then China will crush us, and that will be the end of America as the world’s greatest superpower.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ingallinera is proposing to build a city full of AI-focused startups and robotics manufacturers, housing for 10,000 residents, a commercial district, statues of American pioneers and a waterside park. The company drafted an executive order for Trump to sign that the company claims would allow development to proceed on the parcel, which is \u003ca href=\"https://alamedapointinfo.com/sites/default/files/resolution_14780_copy.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">currently designated as a nature reserve (PDF)\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alameda city officials, however, told KQED they were never contacted by the company and only learned of its plans through its weekend post on X. Mayor Marilyn Ezzy Ashcraft called the plans a “head scratcher.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They haven’t talked to the city at all,” she said, adding that a development of that size would be challenging to build on land that is subject to sea level rise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12044737\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1777px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12044737 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/06/P1000646_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1777\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/06/P1000646_qed.jpg 1777w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/06/P1000646_qed-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/06/P1000646_qed-1536x1152.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1777px) 100vw, 1777px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Alameda Point on Sept. 11, 2023. The Department of Veterans Affairs plans to build a medical clinic and a National Cemetery Columbarium for 300,000 veterans and spouses at Alameda Point, on 624 acres of the former Naval Air Station. The project is funded by Congress and will be constructed by the US Army Corps of Engineers. \u003ccite>(Craig Miller/ Climate Watch)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The Department of Veterans Affairs currently owns about 624 acres of the former Naval Air Station and \u003ca href=\"https://www.va.gov/san-francisco-health-care/programs/va-alameda-point-development/#:~:text=Facilities%20on%20the%20site%20will,many%20Veterans%20residing%20in%20the\">plans to build\u003c/a> a medical clinic and a National Cemetery Columbarium, an above-ground burial site which could hold the remains of 300,000 veterans and spouses at Alameda Point. The project was authorized and funded by Congress and is planned to be constructed by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This is a big deal that we need a new veterans administration clinic and the burial spaces,” Ashcraft said. “They’re very much needed.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The columbarium and medical clinic, however, will account for only a fifth of the federal agency’s land. The remaining 512 acres, which Frontier Valley wants to build on, are a former aircraft landing strip and the nesting grounds for several bird populations, including the endangered California Least Tern.[aside postID=news_12024017 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/20250114_Mare-Island2_DMB_00817-1020x680.jpg']According to \u003ca href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-ingallinera-4172a021/\">LinkedIn\u003c/a>, Ingallinera has founded a series of startups and was most recently an advisor for the Carboncopies Foundation, a research organization studying whether the human brain can be scanned and simulated digitally.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Neither he nor other members of Frontier Valley responded to KQED’s requests for comment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While his promotional video shares little detail about his background, it paints a picture of sluggish bureaucracy slowing down the country’s progress in developing competitive AI technology, including humanoid robots. In it, he claims that because this new city would be built on federal land, it would \u003cstrong>“\u003c/strong>have total independence from the surrounding Bay Area and the state of California, avoiding the failures of many previous governance structures.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He urged the White House to transfer the 512-acre parcel from the Department of Veterans Affairs to the Department of Defense. Neither federal agency responded to KQED’s requests for comment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Gary Marcus, an AI expert, disagreed with Ingallinera’s characterization that red tape is holding back the development of humanoid robots and said the real bottleneck is software.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12044743\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1777px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12044743 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/06/P1000639_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1777\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/06/P1000639_qed.jpg 1777w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/06/P1000639_qed-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/06/P1000639_qed-1536x1152.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1777px) 100vw, 1777px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">James Ingallinera, founder of Frontier Valley, urged former President Donald Trump on X to declare a national security emergency and fast-track AI and robotics development on 512 acres of federal land at Alameda Point. \u003ccite>(Craig Miller/ Climate Watch)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“That’s mostly a (very hard) software problem, not a hardware problem,” he wrote in an email to KQED. “Companies can utterly work on that to a fair degree without a lot of red tape.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The city of Alameda is moving forward with its own \u003ca href=\"https://www.alamedaca.gov/Departments/Alameda-Point\">mixed-use development\u003c/a> on Alameda Point, adjacent to where Frontier Valley is proposing to build its city. It had planned to develop a portion of the former airstrip into a \u003ca href=\"https://www.ebparks.org/projects/northwest-territories-regional-shoreline-alameda-point\">158-acre open-space park\u003c/a> that would be operated by the East Bay Regional Park District.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In an emailed statement, Sarah Henry, a spokesperson for the city of Alameda, told KQED that “no reasonable fact” supports a proposed declaration of a national security emergency at the site.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The city is in full support of the VA facility and regional parks project, which will serve Bay Area veterans, residents and visitors for many decades to come,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ingallinera is proposing to build a city full of AI-focused startups and robotics manufacturers, housing for 10,000 residents, a commercial district, statues of American pioneers and a waterside park. The company drafted an executive order for Trump to sign that the company claims would allow development to proceed on the parcel, which is \u003ca href=\"https://alamedapointinfo.com/sites/default/files/resolution_14780_copy.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">currently designated as a nature reserve (PDF)\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alameda city officials, however, told KQED they were never contacted by the company and only learned of its plans through its weekend post on X. Mayor Marilyn Ezzy Ashcraft called the plans a “head scratcher.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They haven’t talked to the city at all,” she said, adding that a development of that size would be challenging to build on land that is subject to sea level rise.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12044737\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1777px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12044737 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/06/P1000646_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1777\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/06/P1000646_qed.jpg 1777w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/06/P1000646_qed-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/06/P1000646_qed-1536x1152.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1777px) 100vw, 1777px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Alameda Point on Sept. 11, 2023. The Department of Veterans Affairs plans to build a medical clinic and a National Cemetery Columbarium for 300,000 veterans and spouses at Alameda Point, on 624 acres of the former Naval Air Station. The project is funded by Congress and will be constructed by the US Army Corps of Engineers. \u003ccite>(Craig Miller/ Climate Watch)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The Department of Veterans Affairs currently owns about 624 acres of the former Naval Air Station and \u003ca href=\"https://www.va.gov/san-francisco-health-care/programs/va-alameda-point-development/#:~:text=Facilities%20on%20the%20site%20will,many%20Veterans%20residing%20in%20the\">plans to build\u003c/a> a medical clinic and a National Cemetery Columbarium, an above-ground burial site which could hold the remains of 300,000 veterans and spouses at Alameda Point. The project was authorized and funded by Congress and is planned to be constructed by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This is a big deal that we need a new veterans administration clinic and the burial spaces,” Ashcraft said. “They’re very much needed.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The columbarium and medical clinic, however, will account for only a fifth of the federal agency’s land. The remaining 512 acres, which Frontier Valley wants to build on, are a former aircraft landing strip and the nesting grounds for several bird populations, including the endangered California Least Tern.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>According to \u003ca href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-ingallinera-4172a021/\">LinkedIn\u003c/a>, Ingallinera has founded a series of startups and was most recently an advisor for the Carboncopies Foundation, a research organization studying whether the human brain can be scanned and simulated digitally.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Neither he nor other members of Frontier Valley responded to KQED’s requests for comment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While his promotional video shares little detail about his background, it paints a picture of sluggish bureaucracy slowing down the country’s progress in developing competitive AI technology, including humanoid robots. In it, he claims that because this new city would be built on federal land, it would \u003cstrong>“\u003c/strong>have total independence from the surrounding Bay Area and the state of California, avoiding the failures of many previous governance structures.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He urged the White House to transfer the 512-acre parcel from the Department of Veterans Affairs to the Department of Defense. Neither federal agency responded to KQED’s requests for comment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Gary Marcus, an AI expert, disagreed with Ingallinera’s characterization that red tape is holding back the development of humanoid robots and said the real bottleneck is software.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12044743\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1777px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12044743 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/06/P1000639_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1777\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/06/P1000639_qed.jpg 1777w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/06/P1000639_qed-160x120.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/06/P1000639_qed-1536x1152.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1777px) 100vw, 1777px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">James Ingallinera, founder of Frontier Valley, urged former President Donald Trump on X to declare a national security emergency and fast-track AI and robotics development on 512 acres of federal land at Alameda Point. \u003ccite>(Craig Miller/ Climate Watch)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“That’s mostly a (very hard) software problem, not a hardware problem,” he wrote in an email to KQED. “Companies can utterly work on that to a fair degree without a lot of red tape.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The city of Alameda is moving forward with its own \u003ca href=\"https://www.alamedaca.gov/Departments/Alameda-Point\">mixed-use development\u003c/a> on Alameda Point, adjacent to where Frontier Valley is proposing to build its city. It had planned to develop a portion of the former airstrip into a \u003ca href=\"https://www.ebparks.org/projects/northwest-territories-regional-shoreline-alameda-point\">158-acre open-space park\u003c/a> that would be operated by the East Bay Regional Park District.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In an emailed statement, Sarah Henry, a spokesperson for the city of Alameda, told KQED that “no reasonable fact” supports a proposed declaration of a national security emergency at the site.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The city is in full support of the VA facility and regional parks project, which will serve Bay Area veterans, residents and visitors for many decades to come,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "The Spotify Effect, Pt 1: Ghosts in the Playlist",
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"headTitle": "The Spotify Effect, Pt 1: Ghosts in the Playlist | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Spotify has morphed from a straightforward music library and search engine into a data-driven system built to feed you songs to match your mood and optimize your time on the platform. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this episode, Morgan is joined by music journalist and author Liz Pelly to break down how Spotify built its playlist empire, the rise of so-called “ghost artists” on the platform, and how its algorithmic approach is changing our relationship to music, artists, and the culture around them. Plus, Morgan tries to solve a personal mystery: “Am I being haunted by Sabrina Carpenter?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC2248363665\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Guest:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://lizpelly.info/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Liz Pelly\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, independent music journalist and author of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Costs of the Perfect Playlist\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Further Reading:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://lizpelly.info/book\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Costs of the Perfect Playlist\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Liz Pelly\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.vox.com/culture/357907/spotify-sabrina-carpenter-espresso-chappell-roan-algorithm\">The Spotify conspiracy theories about “Espresso,” explained\u003c/a> — Rebecca Jennings, \u003ci>Vox \u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.businessinsider.com/spotify-playlists-music-discovery-release-radar-layoffs-cost-cutting-2025-5#:~:text='Algorithmic%20fatigue',flooded%20with%20music%20they%20hate.&text=The%20music%20app%20I've,I'm%20obsessed%20with%20rainstorms.\">‘Algorithm fatigue:’ Spotify Fans Say It’s Going Downhill. Company Insiders Agree.\u003c/a> — John Paul Titlow, \u003ci>Business Insider \u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\">Follow us on Instagram\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Last year, Sabrina Carpenter released Espresso. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sabrina Carpenter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now he’s thinkin’ ’bout me every night, oh/ Is it that sweet? I guess so / Say you can’t sleep, baby, I know / That’s that me espresso\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think I first heard the song on TikTok, or maybe it appeared on one of my Spotify daily mixes. Either way, I thought it was fun, so I put it on my summer playlist. And then it was like there was no escaping espresso. For months, every time I finished listening to a playlist or album, it seemed like the next song that Spotify auto-played was almost always espresso. I remember listening to Charli XCX’s Brat, and then… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sabrina Carpenter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Say you can’t sleep, baby, I know / That’s that me espresso\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Brat is like super electro pop club music that sounds nothing like espresso. But I guess it made sense in my head because they were both trending last summer. But it kept happening with totally different genres. And music that had been out for years. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s the one that really got me. I was listening to my playlist of instrumental movie scores, right? It was on shuffle and the last song was the one from the cornfield scene in Interstellar. Imagine you’re me, listening to this devastatingly beautiful song. The music swells into these ethereal arpeggios, building on each other until it hits a crescendo. And then it comes to an abrupt stop. And while you’re still lingering on the melody of that song, you hear the opening bars of another. And at that point, I knew exactly what was coming. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sabrina Carpenter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Say you can’t sleep, baby, I know / That’s that me espresso\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I wasn’t the only one being haunted by espresso. This was so widespread that there was a whole internet conspiracy theory claiming that Sabrina Carpenter’s team had struck a deal with Spotify to force its algorithm to incessantly autoplay the song in order to boost streaming numbers. Deals between streaming platforms and musicians do exist, but it’s not as simple as that. There’s no single algorithm controlling all of Spotify. What’s more likely is Spotify knew I had listened to the song before, so it just kept recommending it to me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I always try to differentiate, too, the difference between streaming services show you music that you like versus streaming services, show you a music that you seem statistically likely to not hit skip on because basically what streaming services have is a pool of data on you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Liz Pelly is a music critic and journalist who’s been covering Spotify for years. She’s also the author of Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and The Cost of the Perfect Playlist. It’s all about how Spotify’s playlists and recommendation algorithms have changed the way we listen to music. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ve seen a lot of these headlines like, “How Spotify plans to get into your head and tell you what music you like before you even know you like it yourself.” And I think it’s really important to sort of push back on those types of narratives and continue reiterating that that’s not possible. They can’t do that, they can’t that. But what they can do is look at everything that you’ve listened to in the past and make predictions of tracks that you might either be willing to hit play on or that you won’t hit skip on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Spotify gives users access to a seemingly endless library of music, but it’s really become known for being a music discovery platform. For years, its editorial playlists and personalized features introduced hundreds of millions of users to new artists and genres. But now… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Something that I commonly hear from people who use Spotify is that, you know, the recommendations used to introduce them to lots of new music, but over time, the recommendations have gotten a lot more boring. And now all they ever hear is stuff that they’ve already listened to over and over again. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This TikTok creator named Anthony Sistilli summed it up in a video complaining about a feature called “song radio.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Sistilli: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because if I started a radio about a song, it meant I wanted to hear more songs similar to that one that I may or may not know. But now when you do that, it just gives you a bunch of songs that you’ve already listened to, you already have saved to your library, and it’s just insane. It’s so hard to discover music on it now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So what’s behind Spotify’s shift from a music discovery engine to a platform for songs you already know? Has personalization gone too far? And will any of this explain why I couldn’t escape espresso? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Close All Tabs. I’m Morgan Sung, tech journalist, and your chronically online friend, here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Let’s get into it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So did playlists ruin music? Before we get into all of that, let’s start at the beginning. And that means we open a new tab. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The birth of the Spotify playlist. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When Spotify launched in Sweden in 2008, it looked a lot different. When it first launched, the product was really more like a search bar. It was a sparse white page with a tagline that said, “A world of music, instant, simple, and free.” There was a search function and an option to create “play lists” — two words. They were essentially digital mixtapes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You would have to know what you were looking for when you went to the platform, whether it be an artist or an album. And when it came to playlists, it was a lot more dependent on playlists made by other users. There was this sprawling landscape of playlist influencers that were sort of dictating things in terms of what types of playlists became popular. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Originally, the company’s CEO, Daniel Ek, wanted the platform to be the “Google of music.” He was pretty resistant to the idea of Spotify ever becoming a curated service. When it launched in the United States in 2011, it had to compete with iTunes, so Spotify tried to stand out by being a social media platform and then a marketplace for music apps. Basically, the country marketed itself as a library for third-party apps to make playlists. And while that didn’t really work out, it turned out that playlists were super popular. In 2012, the company conducted a research study on its user base. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What they learned through this research is that while their early adopters might have been coming looking for that type of experience, there was increasingly a type of user that was looking for an experience more like that of Pandora. People were looking for specific lean back or passive listening playlists that they could just hit play on to soundtrack a moment in their day. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this research, they discovered something that they called the “lean back listener.” So what can you describe this list- this kind of listener? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s this idea of this listener who isn’t particularly concerned with what artist or album they’re seeing out, but is more content to just pick a mood or a vibe or a playlist category and hit play and have a feed of music play in the background. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After that, Spotify rebranded from a world of music to music for every moment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The homepage was reimagined with more of a focus on these sort of moody images of people in their everyday lives, like sun flares reflecting off of the window of a car while driving, people on vacation together at the beach, you know, like selling people on the idea of Spotify being something that would accompany them in these different moods and moments in their lives. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To accomplish this, in 2013, Spotify acquired a company called Tunigo, which made playlists for different vibes. Tunigo’s editorial staff became the first in-house playlist editors at Spotify. They launched playlists for every genre, like Rap Caviar and Hot Country, but also invested in playlists for “functional music.” That’s a term for music for different moods or activities. Think of how workout mixes always feature upbeat, and 10 songs to get you pumped! Or how cafes put on acoustic, mellow songs for ambiance. It’s less about the music itself and more about facilitating a mood. And it goes hand in hand with lean back listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So instead of putting on a specific album to unwind after work, a lean back listener might just pick from Spotify’s array of chill playlists. There are lots of categories of functional music playlists like Party or Focus or Romance. And playlists update every few days, so there’s always something new. Leanback listening and functional music weren’t invented by streaming. They’ve been around for decades. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In some ways, the history of commercial radio could also be looked at as a type of history of lean back listening as well. The story of streaming is as much about what’s changed as it is about what stayed the same. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before the days of Spotify’s playlist empire, a lot of leanback listeners turned on the radio. Instead of the Top Hits playlist, they listened to the Top 40s station. And instead of the Mellow Morning playlist, maybe they put on the Easy Listening station. But the way those songs are chosen has changed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The way in which listening happens today in this lean back environment also involves, I’d say a lot more data collection and user surveillance than perhaps lean back listening of generations past did, which in some ways I think allows the services to in an even more invasive way, really optimize for this type of listening experience. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Liz makes the argument that Spotify’s real value isn’t its library of music. It’s the data that it’s collected from hundreds of millions of users for over a decade. These listening habits have informed the way that Spotify categorizes and recommends music. So what happens to the culture of music when songs are reduced to data? That’s a new tab. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Streaming optimized music. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I still think handpicking songs for someone else to listen to is one of the most romantic things you can do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>John Cusack: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ve started to make a tape in my head for Laura. Full of stuff she’d like, full of stuff that would make her happy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Back in 2013, Spotify marketed playlists by invoking that same sense of intimacy. But today, Spotify’s in-house playlist creation doesn’t really work like that. It’s all about optimization. They analyze user behavior, music trends, and other kinds of data to put together a playlist that’s likely to get a ton of streaming time. And by 2016, these playlists were immensely influential. A lot of artists got their big break because their songs ended up on an official Spotify playlist. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some of the earliest narratives that streaming services and Spotify in particular were pitching to independent musicians were, yeah, this idea that Spotify was gonna level the playing field and that now the power of gatekeepers like commercial radio DJs and major labels would be diminished. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So up-and-coming artists could submit their tracks. And if a playlist editor liked it, they would add it to what was known as a “feeder playlist” — usually a smaller and niche playlist that wasn’t as popular. If the track had a low skip rate, it might move up to a bigger playlist with more followers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Editors also looked at data from user-generated playlists. If a song had a certain number of streams or saves, then editors would consider adding it to the flagship playlists like Morning Commute and Warehouse Party. But data doesn’t always paint a full picture. Liz pointed out that some songs had a lower skip rate because they were just inoffensive enough to listen to in the background. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So some musicians would notice that even though they had these whole varied catalogs, it was only music that was playlist friendly, background music friendly, maybe kind of like more straightforward, softer on the edges that would do well on streaming because it was music that was more amenable to playlist curation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And this is exactly what happened to lo-fi beats. You might have heard of this YouTube channel called Lo-Fi Hip-Hop Radio, Beats to Relax / Study To. It’s a 24-7 stream that features this anime girl wearing headphones, who’s now known as Lo-Fi Girl. She’s usually writing or reading at her desk, while her cat lounges on a windowsill in the background. The view through this window shows this idyllic cityscape. Sometimes it’s sunset, sometimes it’s raining. Meanwhile, there’s a continuous rotation of calming, overwhelmingly cozy instrumental music. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lo-Fi Girl is wildly popular. She’s inspired countless spinoff channels from jazzier lo-fi beats set at a busy cafe to lo-fied versions of movie and game soundtracks. Producing the genre is a whole cottage industry now. And Spotify has launched a bunch of playlists to capitalize on the trend. There’s the Lo-Fi Beats playlist, one called Lo-Fi Covers, one called Chill Hits, Late Night Beats, you get the picture. And they all kind of sound the same. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But today’s version of the genre sounds very different from how it did when it first emerged in the early 2010s. Back then, DIY musicians, who were inspired by hip hop producers like J Dilla and Madlib, shared their beats with each other on SoundCloud and internet forums. It wasn’t called lo-fi because it was chill music. It was literally low fidelity. It sounded a little unpolished and nostalgic. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was less about making background music to study to, and more about the art of beat making, sample flipping. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Early YouTube streamers like Lo-Fi Girl acted as curators, handpicking a constant rotation of lo-fi mixes from these independent beatmakers. But when Spotify jumped in, the genre started to change. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It kind of, I think is a good example of something that has happened like repeatedly across other genres and sounds in the streaming era, which is you may have like a playlist that becomes the main way in which people are coming to experience the certain type of music. So the fandom becomes a lot more about the playlists than it does necessarily about the different artists that are on the playlist. And streaming users come to expect a specific sound and a specific idea. So then there’s incentive for musicians and producers to sort of like make the same things over and over again. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This strategy could be lucrative for musicians, but because people were often passively listening to ready-made, data-optimized playlists, the artists themselves remained largely unknown. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It is in some ways kind of also on the listeners to take the initiative to learn about the musicians that they’re listening to if this is a type of music that you are interested in, but I also think that the interface doesn’t really in any way prioritize that. You know, lo-fi hip-hop beats on Spotify are one of the genres that has been most impacted by the emergence of what I talk about as ghost artists. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay wait what are ghost artists? We’ll get into that after this break. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, we’re back. So Liz was just telling us about how lo-fi beats is one of the genres most impacted by “ghost artists.” Let’s open a new tab. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ghost artists in the machine. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">By ghost artists, Liz is referring to the artists who make up the majority of Spotify’s lean back functional music playlists. The ones made for listening to in the background, like lo-fi beats or deep focus. For a while, people have been accusing these playlists of being stocked with “fake artists.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For me, I think that at the very beginning, I thought that maybe these were just kind of DIY hustlers trying to game the system or maybe like teenagers in their bedrooms trying to like juice Spotify royalties or something. And it didn’t strike me as like super concerning at first. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Liz found that it actually went way deeper than that. These playlists rack up millions of streams a day, even if people are only half-listening to them. By 2017, the company figured out a way that it could skimp on paying royalties. That’s when Spotify quietly rolled out what they called Perfect Fit Content, or PFC. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was able to pull the veil back a little bit and came to learn that, you know, these weren’t individual DIY hustlers trying to game the system. This was an actual effort from within Spotify. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Essentially, Spotify made deals with production companies, which were already commissioning musicians to write and produce low-budget stock music. Think of the kind of background music that goes into commercials, documentaries, YouTube videos. Even this show, when my colleague Chris doesn’t have time to compose original music for each episode. Except these were commissioned for specific playlists like lo-fi beats or ambient piano. And the thing is, these ghost artists were still marketed as if they were real individuals, complete with fake names and bios. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not even that it’s encouraging a relationship with the playlist instead of the artists. There’s actually in this arrangement, there’s no opportunity for a relationship with the artists when the artists don’t actually exist. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Spotify paid lower royalties for PFCs, and in exchange, these tracks were given priority on Spotify’s functional music playlists. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was clear that there was special privilege being given to these types of tracks and there were certainly internal conversations where senior executives or senior music programming staff was drawing attention to these tracks and encouraging playlist editors to add them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Liz says that by 2023, there were hundreds of playlists that were over 90% PFC tracks. Spotify got to cut costs and the stock music production companies profited off the streams. But ghost artists, who are real musicians doing real labor, got the short end of the stick. They were making anonymous stock music. So even if they got paid upfront, they rarely got a cut of royalties. And even if their tracks went super viral, they didn’t get any credit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Most of the people I spoke with said things along the lines of, “I just make music, submit it, I get paid, and I don’t know what happens after that.” They didn’t know really anything about the broader arrangement with the streaming services, what was guaranteed or not guaranteed, or even like what that relationship looked like. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And Liz found that most playlist editors were not thrilled about this setup either. Even if it involved data, Spotify’s editorial playlist curation was something of an art form that required a deep understanding of music and culture, which editors took a lot of pride in. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, Spotify eventually hired an entirely new team of editors to handle PFCs, who were charged with prioritizing metrics above anything else. They were less focused on taste-making, and more on analyzing user behavior and sorting data. And that practice has become the norm for Spotify’s playlist editors. Spotify started to focus more on personalized playlists around the time they launched the PFC program. The editorial playlists aren’t nearly as influential as they used to be, because now it’s all about the algorithm. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s one person who talked to me who said, as someone working in an independent record label, they’d basically given up on the idea that their music would ever be considered for editorial playlist placement because everything had shifted to algorithmic recommendation and personalization products. And even former employees I spoke with, there was a sense that algorithmic personalized recommendations had sort of taken over to some extent or kind of won out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Which brings us back again to… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sabrina Carpenter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Say you can’t sleep, baby, I know / That’s that me espresso\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, new tab. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Algorithm fatigue. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Liz says Spotify has always been driven by data. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is curation that’s really based on streaming metrics and less so on the willingness or openness to take risks. Personalized recommendation doesn’t just exist to offer the user a satisfying user experience, but also because they want to retain you as a subscriber. And one of the ways in which they can retain you is by simply, you know, showing you the music that they think you’re the most likely to stream. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">With that in mind, the company started collecting listener data way before they even knew what to do with it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In my research on Spotify, something that kept coming up as far back as like 2013, was this aspiration to create essentially like a button that someone could play when they opened the app and get the perfect recommendation at the perfect time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In 2014, the company bought a music data startup called Echo Nest, which had a database of 30 million songs and their defining characteristics. A year later, Spotify used all that data, combined with their own, to launch Discover Weekly. This has been one of Spotify’s defining features. 30 songs every Monday tailored to each individual user’s music taste. This was the start of Spotify pivot to hyper-personalized, algorithmically recommended music. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This idea of self-driving music, that someone would just be able to open the app and based on all this information that the app had on the user, the playlist recommendations would just guide themselves. A former employee mentioned to me that the whole goal of the playlisting ecosystem was to reduce the cognitive work that people had to do when they opened the app. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After that, editorial playlists took a backseat. There are the big ones, Rap Caviar, Today’s Top Hits, and the EDM playlist, Mint. There are a few others that Spotify still curates and invests in, and says that they still have human editors working on. But personalized recommendations were taking over. The job of a Spotify playlist editor began changing. Spotify calls it algo-torial. Playlist editors focus on creating large lists of songs. But an algorithm picks the ones shown to each individual listener. And all of it is optimized to keep you from turning it off. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This idea of like, “Oh, we want to reduce like the thinking that people have to do when they open the app,” I find troubling for all sorts of ways, also, especially as a music critic. But I, I think that it’s really interesting thinking about that as context for a couple of recommendation products that they did roll out the past few years, which are Daylist and AI DJ. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These are totally algorithm-controlled playlists. Daylist is like Discover Weekly on steroids. It’s a playlist of 50 songs that’s updated three to five times a day, every day. It’s not just based on your taste, but also on the genres of music that you tend to listen to throughout the day. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s providing you the perfect soundtrack tailored just you and your unique way of listening to music because we have all this data on you and we know all of these different niches you’re into. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">AI DJ also serves users with algorithmically recommended songs, but with interjections from an AI-generated voice, who acts kind of like a personal radio host. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>AI DJ: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey Max, what’s going on? I’m X and from this moment on I’m gonna be your own personal AI DJ on Spotify. Let’s go!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They are both different manifestations of that idea that, you know, there’s just this one place that you go on the app and you just hit play and it shows you the perfect recommendation at the perfect time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then there’s Smart Shuffle, which auto plays music and is probably responsible for my Espresso hell. And like the others, it’s also hyper personalized algorithmically recommended songs based on each user’s listening history. But Liz points out that you don’t have to give into the algorithm. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The idea of like curating your own queue as a sort of like antidote to the feed. If you maintain your own queue, it can kind of like help in those moments to have a different way of listening to music. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Still, Liz says she’s concerned about the convenience and widespread adoption of Spotify’s recommendation system. Thanks to these fine-tuned algorithms, people have started to expect recommendations to come to them. And the practice of discovering and curating music for ourselves is withering away. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think a lot of people rely on personalized recommendations because they don’t know what to listen to or because they open the app and it’s just the first thing they see. And they might even be like a curious listener, someone who cares about music, but they open it, they see Daily Mix One, they say, “Oh, I like some of these artists, like, sure, I’ll just hit play on this.” It’s like a slippery slope when your daily listening habits come to sort of revolve around these algorithmic personalized recommendation products that are so tightly controlled by streaming platforms. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I made my Spotify account back in 2014. And since then, every decision I’ve made on Spotify, consciously or unconsciously, has been tracked and used for the platform’s various algorithms. The amount of time I’ve listened to certain songs, the music I’ve added to my own playlists, the songs I’ve skipped, and even the mixes I’ve put on as background music. All of this somehow contributed to me getting bombarded with Espresso last year. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think we’ve heard enough of that. I’ll admit it, it’s so convenient to just turn on my Daylist. Sometimes I’m in the car, or about to get on the treadmill, and I just don’t want to put in the mental work of looking for something to listen to. Here’s the other thing about Daylists that make them tempting to pick. They’re just so hyper specific. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My Daylist playlist is called Supergroup Ripped Jeans Tuesday Afternoon. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Indie Chill Hipster Evening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Cueva: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Clavé, Barbershop, Friday Morning. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For the record, as I write this narration, mine is “Ethereal Alien Club Classics Afternoon,” with genres like Brat Summer, Indie Sleeze, and Recession Pop? Somehow, Ethereal Alien Club Classics includes Frank Ocean, Midski, and of course, Charlie XCX. But how did Spotify come up with these niche micro genres? How do artists feel about getting lumped into them? And how does this affect the way that we discover music? That’s a new tab, but we’ll have to save that for next week. So for now, we’re actually leaving this last tab open. We can close the rest though. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios and is reported and hosted by me, Morgan Sung. Our Producer is Maya Cueva. Chris Egusa is our Senior Editor. Jen Chien is KQED’s Director of Podcasts and helps edit the show. Sound design by Chris Egusa and Brendan Willard. Original music by Chris Egusa. Additional music by APM. Mixing and mastering by Brendan Willard. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad and Alana Walker. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager, and Holly Kernan is our Chief Content Officer. Support for this program comes from Birong Hu and supporters of the KQED Studios Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Keyboard sounds were recorded on my purple and pink Dustsilver K-84 wired mechanical keyboard with Gateron red switches. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you have feedback or a topic you think we should cover, hit us up at CloseAllTabs@KQED.org, follow us on Instagram @CloseAllTabsPod, or drop it on Discord. We’re in the Close All Tabs channel at Discord.gg/KQED. And if you’re enjoying the show, give us a rating on Apple Podcasts or whatever platform you use. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks for listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"title": "The Spotify Effect, Pt 1: Ghosts in the Playlist | KQED",
"description": "Spotify has morphed from a straight-forward music library and search engine into a data-driven system built to feed you songs to match your mood and optimize your time on the platform. In this episode, Morgan is joined by music journalist and author Liz Pelly to break down how Spotify built its playlist empire, the rise of so-called “ghost artists” on the platform, and how its algorithm approach is changing our relationship to music, artists, and the culture around them. Plus, Morgan tries to solve a personal mystery: why was she being haunted by Sabrina Carpenter’s Espresso?",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Spotify has morphed from a straightforward music library and search engine into a data-driven system built to feed you songs to match your mood and optimize your time on the platform. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this episode, Morgan is joined by music journalist and author Liz Pelly to break down how Spotify built its playlist empire, the rise of so-called “ghost artists” on the platform, and how its algorithmic approach is changing our relationship to music, artists, and the culture around them. Plus, Morgan tries to solve a personal mystery: “Am I being haunted by Sabrina Carpenter?”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC2248363665\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Guest:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://lizpelly.info/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Liz Pelly\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, independent music journalist and author of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Costs of the Perfect Playlist\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Further Reading:\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://lizpelly.info/book\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Costs of the Perfect Playlist\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Liz Pelly\u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.vox.com/culture/357907/spotify-sabrina-carpenter-espresso-chappell-roan-algorithm\">The Spotify conspiracy theories about “Espresso,” explained\u003c/a> — Rebecca Jennings, \u003ci>Vox \u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.businessinsider.com/spotify-playlists-music-discovery-release-radar-layoffs-cost-cutting-2025-5#:~:text='Algorithmic%20fatigue',flooded%20with%20music%20they%20hate.&text=The%20music%20app%20I've,I'm%20obsessed%20with%20rainstorms.\">‘Algorithm fatigue:’ Spotify Fans Say It’s Going Downhill. Company Insiders Agree.\u003c/a> — John Paul Titlow, \u003ci>Business Insider \u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\">Follow us on Instagram\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Last year, Sabrina Carpenter released Espresso. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sabrina Carpenter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now he’s thinkin’ ’bout me every night, oh/ Is it that sweet? I guess so / Say you can’t sleep, baby, I know / That’s that me espresso\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think I first heard the song on TikTok, or maybe it appeared on one of my Spotify daily mixes. Either way, I thought it was fun, so I put it on my summer playlist. And then it was like there was no escaping espresso. For months, every time I finished listening to a playlist or album, it seemed like the next song that Spotify auto-played was almost always espresso. I remember listening to Charli XCX’s Brat, and then… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sabrina Carpenter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Say you can’t sleep, baby, I know / That’s that me espresso\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Brat is like super electro pop club music that sounds nothing like espresso. But I guess it made sense in my head because they were both trending last summer. But it kept happening with totally different genres. And music that had been out for years. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s the one that really got me. I was listening to my playlist of instrumental movie scores, right? It was on shuffle and the last song was the one from the cornfield scene in Interstellar. Imagine you’re me, listening to this devastatingly beautiful song. The music swells into these ethereal arpeggios, building on each other until it hits a crescendo. And then it comes to an abrupt stop. And while you’re still lingering on the melody of that song, you hear the opening bars of another. And at that point, I knew exactly what was coming. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sabrina Carpenter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Say you can’t sleep, baby, I know / That’s that me espresso\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I wasn’t the only one being haunted by espresso. This was so widespread that there was a whole internet conspiracy theory claiming that Sabrina Carpenter’s team had struck a deal with Spotify to force its algorithm to incessantly autoplay the song in order to boost streaming numbers. Deals between streaming platforms and musicians do exist, but it’s not as simple as that. There’s no single algorithm controlling all of Spotify. What’s more likely is Spotify knew I had listened to the song before, so it just kept recommending it to me. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I always try to differentiate, too, the difference between streaming services show you music that you like versus streaming services, show you a music that you seem statistically likely to not hit skip on because basically what streaming services have is a pool of data on you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Liz Pelly is a music critic and journalist who’s been covering Spotify for years. She’s also the author of Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and The Cost of the Perfect Playlist. It’s all about how Spotify’s playlists and recommendation algorithms have changed the way we listen to music. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ve seen a lot of these headlines like, “How Spotify plans to get into your head and tell you what music you like before you even know you like it yourself.” And I think it’s really important to sort of push back on those types of narratives and continue reiterating that that’s not possible. They can’t do that, they can’t that. But what they can do is look at everything that you’ve listened to in the past and make predictions of tracks that you might either be willing to hit play on or that you won’t hit skip on. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Spotify gives users access to a seemingly endless library of music, but it’s really become known for being a music discovery platform. For years, its editorial playlists and personalized features introduced hundreds of millions of users to new artists and genres. But now… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Something that I commonly hear from people who use Spotify is that, you know, the recommendations used to introduce them to lots of new music, but over time, the recommendations have gotten a lot more boring. And now all they ever hear is stuff that they’ve already listened to over and over again. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This TikTok creator named Anthony Sistilli summed it up in a video complaining about a feature called “song radio.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Anthony Sistilli: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Because if I started a radio about a song, it meant I wanted to hear more songs similar to that one that I may or may not know. But now when you do that, it just gives you a bunch of songs that you’ve already listened to, you already have saved to your library, and it’s just insane. It’s so hard to discover music on it now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So what’s behind Spotify’s shift from a music discovery engine to a platform for songs you already know? Has personalization gone too far? And will any of this explain why I couldn’t escape espresso? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Close All Tabs. I’m Morgan Sung, tech journalist, and your chronically online friend, here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Let’s get into it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So did playlists ruin music? Before we get into all of that, let’s start at the beginning. And that means we open a new tab. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The birth of the Spotify playlist. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When Spotify launched in Sweden in 2008, it looked a lot different. When it first launched, the product was really more like a search bar. It was a sparse white page with a tagline that said, “A world of music, instant, simple, and free.” There was a search function and an option to create “play lists” — two words. They were essentially digital mixtapes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You would have to know what you were looking for when you went to the platform, whether it be an artist or an album. And when it came to playlists, it was a lot more dependent on playlists made by other users. There was this sprawling landscape of playlist influencers that were sort of dictating things in terms of what types of playlists became popular. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Originally, the company’s CEO, Daniel Ek, wanted the platform to be the “Google of music.” He was pretty resistant to the idea of Spotify ever becoming a curated service. When it launched in the United States in 2011, it had to compete with iTunes, so Spotify tried to stand out by being a social media platform and then a marketplace for music apps. Basically, the country marketed itself as a library for third-party apps to make playlists. And while that didn’t really work out, it turned out that playlists were super popular. In 2012, the company conducted a research study on its user base. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What they learned through this research is that while their early adopters might have been coming looking for that type of experience, there was increasingly a type of user that was looking for an experience more like that of Pandora. People were looking for specific lean back or passive listening playlists that they could just hit play on to soundtrack a moment in their day. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this research, they discovered something that they called the “lean back listener.” So what can you describe this list- this kind of listener? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s this idea of this listener who isn’t particularly concerned with what artist or album they’re seeing out, but is more content to just pick a mood or a vibe or a playlist category and hit play and have a feed of music play in the background. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After that, Spotify rebranded from a world of music to music for every moment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The homepage was reimagined with more of a focus on these sort of moody images of people in their everyday lives, like sun flares reflecting off of the window of a car while driving, people on vacation together at the beach, you know, like selling people on the idea of Spotify being something that would accompany them in these different moods and moments in their lives. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">To accomplish this, in 2013, Spotify acquired a company called Tunigo, which made playlists for different vibes. Tunigo’s editorial staff became the first in-house playlist editors at Spotify. They launched playlists for every genre, like Rap Caviar and Hot Country, but also invested in playlists for “functional music.” That’s a term for music for different moods or activities. Think of how workout mixes always feature upbeat, and 10 songs to get you pumped! Or how cafes put on acoustic, mellow songs for ambiance. It’s less about the music itself and more about facilitating a mood. And it goes hand in hand with lean back listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So instead of putting on a specific album to unwind after work, a lean back listener might just pick from Spotify’s array of chill playlists. There are lots of categories of functional music playlists like Party or Focus or Romance. And playlists update every few days, so there’s always something new. Leanback listening and functional music weren’t invented by streaming. They’ve been around for decades. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In some ways, the history of commercial radio could also be looked at as a type of history of lean back listening as well. The story of streaming is as much about what’s changed as it is about what stayed the same. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Before the days of Spotify’s playlist empire, a lot of leanback listeners turned on the radio. Instead of the Top Hits playlist, they listened to the Top 40s station. And instead of the Mellow Morning playlist, maybe they put on the Easy Listening station. But the way those songs are chosen has changed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The way in which listening happens today in this lean back environment also involves, I’d say a lot more data collection and user surveillance than perhaps lean back listening of generations past did, which in some ways I think allows the services to in an even more invasive way, really optimize for this type of listening experience. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Liz makes the argument that Spotify’s real value isn’t its library of music. It’s the data that it’s collected from hundreds of millions of users for over a decade. These listening habits have informed the way that Spotify categorizes and recommends music. So what happens to the culture of music when songs are reduced to data? That’s a new tab. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Streaming optimized music. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I still think handpicking songs for someone else to listen to is one of the most romantic things you can do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>John Cusack: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’ve started to make a tape in my head for Laura. Full of stuff she’d like, full of stuff that would make her happy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Back in 2013, Spotify marketed playlists by invoking that same sense of intimacy. But today, Spotify’s in-house playlist creation doesn’t really work like that. It’s all about optimization. They analyze user behavior, music trends, and other kinds of data to put together a playlist that’s likely to get a ton of streaming time. And by 2016, these playlists were immensely influential. A lot of artists got their big break because their songs ended up on an official Spotify playlist. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some of the earliest narratives that streaming services and Spotify in particular were pitching to independent musicians were, yeah, this idea that Spotify was gonna level the playing field and that now the power of gatekeepers like commercial radio DJs and major labels would be diminished. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So up-and-coming artists could submit their tracks. And if a playlist editor liked it, they would add it to what was known as a “feeder playlist” — usually a smaller and niche playlist that wasn’t as popular. If the track had a low skip rate, it might move up to a bigger playlist with more followers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Editors also looked at data from user-generated playlists. If a song had a certain number of streams or saves, then editors would consider adding it to the flagship playlists like Morning Commute and Warehouse Party. But data doesn’t always paint a full picture. Liz pointed out that some songs had a lower skip rate because they were just inoffensive enough to listen to in the background. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So some musicians would notice that even though they had these whole varied catalogs, it was only music that was playlist friendly, background music friendly, maybe kind of like more straightforward, softer on the edges that would do well on streaming because it was music that was more amenable to playlist curation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And this is exactly what happened to lo-fi beats. You might have heard of this YouTube channel called Lo-Fi Hip-Hop Radio, Beats to Relax / Study To. It’s a 24-7 stream that features this anime girl wearing headphones, who’s now known as Lo-Fi Girl. She’s usually writing or reading at her desk, while her cat lounges on a windowsill in the background. The view through this window shows this idyllic cityscape. Sometimes it’s sunset, sometimes it’s raining. Meanwhile, there’s a continuous rotation of calming, overwhelmingly cozy instrumental music. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Lo-Fi Girl is wildly popular. She’s inspired countless spinoff channels from jazzier lo-fi beats set at a busy cafe to lo-fied versions of movie and game soundtracks. Producing the genre is a whole cottage industry now. And Spotify has launched a bunch of playlists to capitalize on the trend. There’s the Lo-Fi Beats playlist, one called Lo-Fi Covers, one called Chill Hits, Late Night Beats, you get the picture. And they all kind of sound the same. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But today’s version of the genre sounds very different from how it did when it first emerged in the early 2010s. Back then, DIY musicians, who were inspired by hip hop producers like J Dilla and Madlib, shared their beats with each other on SoundCloud and internet forums. It wasn’t called lo-fi because it was chill music. It was literally low fidelity. It sounded a little unpolished and nostalgic. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was less about making background music to study to, and more about the art of beat making, sample flipping. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Early YouTube streamers like Lo-Fi Girl acted as curators, handpicking a constant rotation of lo-fi mixes from these independent beatmakers. But when Spotify jumped in, the genre started to change. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It kind of, I think is a good example of something that has happened like repeatedly across other genres and sounds in the streaming era, which is you may have like a playlist that becomes the main way in which people are coming to experience the certain type of music. So the fandom becomes a lot more about the playlists than it does necessarily about the different artists that are on the playlist. And streaming users come to expect a specific sound and a specific idea. So then there’s incentive for musicians and producers to sort of like make the same things over and over again. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This strategy could be lucrative for musicians, but because people were often passively listening to ready-made, data-optimized playlists, the artists themselves remained largely unknown. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It is in some ways kind of also on the listeners to take the initiative to learn about the musicians that they’re listening to if this is a type of music that you are interested in, but I also think that the interface doesn’t really in any way prioritize that. You know, lo-fi hip-hop beats on Spotify are one of the genres that has been most impacted by the emergence of what I talk about as ghost artists. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay wait what are ghost artists? We’ll get into that after this break. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, we’re back. So Liz was just telling us about how lo-fi beats is one of the genres most impacted by “ghost artists.” Let’s open a new tab. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ghost artists in the machine. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">By ghost artists, Liz is referring to the artists who make up the majority of Spotify’s lean back functional music playlists. The ones made for listening to in the background, like lo-fi beats or deep focus. For a while, people have been accusing these playlists of being stocked with “fake artists.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For me, I think that at the very beginning, I thought that maybe these were just kind of DIY hustlers trying to game the system or maybe like teenagers in their bedrooms trying to like juice Spotify royalties or something. And it didn’t strike me as like super concerning at first. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But Liz found that it actually went way deeper than that. These playlists rack up millions of streams a day, even if people are only half-listening to them. By 2017, the company figured out a way that it could skimp on paying royalties. That’s when Spotify quietly rolled out what they called Perfect Fit Content, or PFC. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was able to pull the veil back a little bit and came to learn that, you know, these weren’t individual DIY hustlers trying to game the system. This was an actual effort from within Spotify. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Essentially, Spotify made deals with production companies, which were already commissioning musicians to write and produce low-budget stock music. Think of the kind of background music that goes into commercials, documentaries, YouTube videos. Even this show, when my colleague Chris doesn’t have time to compose original music for each episode. Except these were commissioned for specific playlists like lo-fi beats or ambient piano. And the thing is, these ghost artists were still marketed as if they were real individuals, complete with fake names and bios. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s not even that it’s encouraging a relationship with the playlist instead of the artists. There’s actually in this arrangement, there’s no opportunity for a relationship with the artists when the artists don’t actually exist. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Spotify paid lower royalties for PFCs, and in exchange, these tracks were given priority on Spotify’s functional music playlists. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It was clear that there was special privilege being given to these types of tracks and there were certainly internal conversations where senior executives or senior music programming staff was drawing attention to these tracks and encouraging playlist editors to add them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Liz says that by 2023, there were hundreds of playlists that were over 90% PFC tracks. Spotify got to cut costs and the stock music production companies profited off the streams. But ghost artists, who are real musicians doing real labor, got the short end of the stick. They were making anonymous stock music. So even if they got paid upfront, they rarely got a cut of royalties. And even if their tracks went super viral, they didn’t get any credit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Most of the people I spoke with said things along the lines of, “I just make music, submit it, I get paid, and I don’t know what happens after that.” They didn’t know really anything about the broader arrangement with the streaming services, what was guaranteed or not guaranteed, or even like what that relationship looked like. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And Liz found that most playlist editors were not thrilled about this setup either. Even if it involved data, Spotify’s editorial playlist curation was something of an art form that required a deep understanding of music and culture, which editors took a lot of pride in. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, Spotify eventually hired an entirely new team of editors to handle PFCs, who were charged with prioritizing metrics above anything else. They were less focused on taste-making, and more on analyzing user behavior and sorting data. And that practice has become the norm for Spotify’s playlist editors. Spotify started to focus more on personalized playlists around the time they launched the PFC program. The editorial playlists aren’t nearly as influential as they used to be, because now it’s all about the algorithm. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s one person who talked to me who said, as someone working in an independent record label, they’d basically given up on the idea that their music would ever be considered for editorial playlist placement because everything had shifted to algorithmic recommendation and personalization products. And even former employees I spoke with, there was a sense that algorithmic personalized recommendations had sort of taken over to some extent or kind of won out. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Which brings us back again to… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sabrina Carpenter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Say you can’t sleep, baby, I know / That’s that me espresso\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, new tab. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Algorithm fatigue. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Liz says Spotify has always been driven by data. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is curation that’s really based on streaming metrics and less so on the willingness or openness to take risks. Personalized recommendation doesn’t just exist to offer the user a satisfying user experience, but also because they want to retain you as a subscriber. And one of the ways in which they can retain you is by simply, you know, showing you the music that they think you’re the most likely to stream. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">With that in mind, the company started collecting listener data way before they even knew what to do with it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In my research on Spotify, something that kept coming up as far back as like 2013, was this aspiration to create essentially like a button that someone could play when they opened the app and get the perfect recommendation at the perfect time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In 2014, the company bought a music data startup called Echo Nest, which had a database of 30 million songs and their defining characteristics. A year later, Spotify used all that data, combined with their own, to launch Discover Weekly. This has been one of Spotify’s defining features. 30 songs every Monday tailored to each individual user’s music taste. This was the start of Spotify pivot to hyper-personalized, algorithmically recommended music. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This idea of self-driving music, that someone would just be able to open the app and based on all this information that the app had on the user, the playlist recommendations would just guide themselves. A former employee mentioned to me that the whole goal of the playlisting ecosystem was to reduce the cognitive work that people had to do when they opened the app. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After that, editorial playlists took a backseat. There are the big ones, Rap Caviar, Today’s Top Hits, and the EDM playlist, Mint. There are a few others that Spotify still curates and invests in, and says that they still have human editors working on. But personalized recommendations were taking over. The job of a Spotify playlist editor began changing. Spotify calls it algo-torial. Playlist editors focus on creating large lists of songs. But an algorithm picks the ones shown to each individual listener. And all of it is optimized to keep you from turning it off. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This idea of like, “Oh, we want to reduce like the thinking that people have to do when they open the app,” I find troubling for all sorts of ways, also, especially as a music critic. But I, I think that it’s really interesting thinking about that as context for a couple of recommendation products that they did roll out the past few years, which are Daylist and AI DJ. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These are totally algorithm-controlled playlists. Daylist is like Discover Weekly on steroids. It’s a playlist of 50 songs that’s updated three to five times a day, every day. It’s not just based on your taste, but also on the genres of music that you tend to listen to throughout the day. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s providing you the perfect soundtrack tailored just you and your unique way of listening to music because we have all this data on you and we know all of these different niches you’re into. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">AI DJ also serves users with algorithmically recommended songs, but with interjections from an AI-generated voice, who acts kind of like a personal radio host. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>AI DJ: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey Max, what’s going on? I’m X and from this moment on I’m gonna be your own personal AI DJ on Spotify. Let’s go!\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They are both different manifestations of that idea that, you know, there’s just this one place that you go on the app and you just hit play and it shows you the perfect recommendation at the perfect time. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then there’s Smart Shuffle, which auto plays music and is probably responsible for my Espresso hell. And like the others, it’s also hyper personalized algorithmically recommended songs based on each user’s listening history. But Liz points out that you don’t have to give into the algorithm. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The idea of like curating your own queue as a sort of like antidote to the feed. If you maintain your own queue, it can kind of like help in those moments to have a different way of listening to music. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Still, Liz says she’s concerned about the convenience and widespread adoption of Spotify’s recommendation system. Thanks to these fine-tuned algorithms, people have started to expect recommendations to come to them. And the practice of discovering and curating music for ourselves is withering away. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Liz Pelly: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think a lot of people rely on personalized recommendations because they don’t know what to listen to or because they open the app and it’s just the first thing they see. And they might even be like a curious listener, someone who cares about music, but they open it, they see Daily Mix One, they say, “Oh, I like some of these artists, like, sure, I’ll just hit play on this.” It’s like a slippery slope when your daily listening habits come to sort of revolve around these algorithmic personalized recommendation products that are so tightly controlled by streaming platforms. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I made my Spotify account back in 2014. And since then, every decision I’ve made on Spotify, consciously or unconsciously, has been tracked and used for the platform’s various algorithms. The amount of time I’ve listened to certain songs, the music I’ve added to my own playlists, the songs I’ve skipped, and even the mixes I’ve put on as background music. All of this somehow contributed to me getting bombarded with Espresso last year. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think we’ve heard enough of that. I’ll admit it, it’s so convenient to just turn on my Daylist. Sometimes I’m in the car, or about to get on the treadmill, and I just don’t want to put in the mental work of looking for something to listen to. Here’s the other thing about Daylists that make them tempting to pick. They’re just so hyper specific. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Xorje Olivares: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My Daylist playlist is called Supergroup Ripped Jeans Tuesday Afternoon. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chris Egusa: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Indie Chill Hipster Evening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Olivia Cueva: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Clavé, Barbershop, Friday Morning. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For the record, as I write this narration, mine is “Ethereal Alien Club Classics Afternoon,” with genres like Brat Summer, Indie Sleeze, and Recession Pop? Somehow, Ethereal Alien Club Classics includes Frank Ocean, Midski, and of course, Charlie XCX. But how did Spotify come up with these niche micro genres? How do artists feel about getting lumped into them? And how does this affect the way that we discover music? That’s a new tab, but we’ll have to save that for next week. So for now, we’re actually leaving this last tab open. We can close the rest though. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios and is reported and hosted by me, Morgan Sung. Our Producer is Maya Cueva. Chris Egusa is our Senior Editor. Jen Chien is KQED’s Director of Podcasts and helps edit the show. Sound design by Chris Egusa and Brendan Willard. Original music by Chris Egusa. Additional music by APM. Mixing and mastering by Brendan Willard. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad and Alana Walker. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager, and Holly Kernan is our Chief Content Officer. Support for this program comes from Birong Hu and supporters of the KQED Studios Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Keyboard sounds were recorded on my purple and pink Dustsilver K-84 wired mechanical keyboard with Gateron red switches. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you have feedback or a topic you think we should cover, hit us up at CloseAllTabs@KQED.org, follow us on Instagram @CloseAllTabsPod, or drop it on Discord. We’re in the Close All Tabs channel at Discord.gg/KQED. And if you’re enjoying the show, give us a rating on Apple Podcasts or whatever platform you use. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks for listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"slug": "are-californias-ai-rules-in-jeopardy-plus-new-data-on-oaklands-non-police-response-and-the-bay-areas-ruby-ibarra-wins-nprs-tiny-desk-contest",
"title": "Are California’s AI Rules in Jeopardy? Plus, New Data on Oakland’s Non-Police Response, and the Bay Area’s Ruby Ibarra Wins NPR’s Tiny Desk Contest",
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"headTitle": "Are California’s AI Rules in Jeopardy? Plus, New Data on Oakland’s Non-Police Response, and the Bay Area’s Ruby Ibarra Wins NPR’s Tiny Desk Contest | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>On this month’s edition of The Bay’s news roundup, we talk about a proposed 10-year ban on state AI regulations that the House of Representatives passed as part of President Trump’s budget bill. Plus, Oakland’s MACRO program – a non-emergency alternative to police – releases new data, and the Bay Area’s very own Ruby Ibarra wins NPR’s Tiny Desk Contest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli class=\"entry-title \">\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2025/05/state-ai-regulation-ban/\">Californians would lose AI protections under bill advancing in Congress\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.ktvu.com/news/oaklands-macro-touts-improvements-despite-criticism-needs-4m-year-survive\">Oakland’s MACRO touts improvements despite criticism; needs $4M a year to survive\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/05/29/g-s1-69049/ruby-ibarra-tiny-desk-concert\">Ruby Ibarra: NPR Tiny Desk Concert\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC5175160153&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:54] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. And welcome to the Bay’s May news roundup where I sit down with the rest of the Bay team to talk about some of the other Bay Area stories that we’ve been following this month. I’m joined by our producer, Jessica Carissa. Hey Jessica.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:12] \u003c/em>Hey.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:14] \u003c/em>And senior editor, Alan Montesilio. What’s up, Alan?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:17] \u003c/em>Hello.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:18] \u003c/em>And also our intern, Mel Velasquez.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mel Velasquez: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:21] \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:22] \u003c/em>Well, first I wanna take a quick look back at some of the stories that we did cover on this show this month. This May we marked 50 years since the fall of Saigon and talked about how that moment in history really shaped Santa Clara County and San Jose as we know it today. We discussed the Trump administration’s cancelation of federal arts funds and what that is going to mean for the local art scene here in the Bay Area. And we talked about the Golden State Valkyries who began their first season here in the Bay area and also they recently had their first win. And Mel, I wanna turn to you for a second because you actually went out to a pre-season game party in the Mission to get a sense of the vibes, the excitement around the Valkyrys for our show. And you also went to the home opener. How was that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mel Velasquez: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:22] \u003c/em>It was really fun, it was really packed. I went to Standard Deviant, which is in the mission, and it was hosted by Ricky’s, which will be the new women’s sports bar that’s coming to the Castro soon. There were a lot of people who were excited for the Valkyries, and it just a pre-season game. Um, but then when I went to the home opener, it was completely sold out. I mean, the energy was insane. They had pyrotechnics inside the Chase Center. It was a sea of purple. People were screaming and then they had like the segment where they were showing like the first Valkyries fan that entered the Chase Center at their first game. There was just like a lot of celebration, yeah it was just a really good time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:03:17] \u003c/em>And if you listen to the show, you probably know that our senior editor, Alan Montecilio, is a basketball head. Alan, how have you been feeling about the Valkyries starting their season here in the Bay? I mean, you already have a Valkry’s sweater.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:03:35] \u003c/em>Oh yeah, I have a Valkyries hoodie. Got a lot of compliments on it. Thank you for asking. As Mel was saying, they really leaned into the first theme. The t-shirts around the stands had the words first of a lifetime on them. And actually we have two wins as of this taping. The Valkyrys are two and two. You know, expectations for a lot of wins are not super high, but it’s more about getting excited for the team, getting to know the players. So yeah, it’s cool to just walk around and see people wearing the gear and watching Chase Center. Get really loud. I mean the Warriors season is over too so you know for the next four to five months the Valkyries will be the only pro basketball team in the Bay Area playing at Chase Center.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:16] \u003c/em>That’s true, I didn’t even think about that. And yeah, I really have been seeing more and more gear out there. Last weekend we went and visited Jessica in San Jose, where she lives, and I feel like I was even seeing Valkyrie’s gear out in the wild over there. Are you excited about the Valkyrys, Jessica? Are you planning to watch?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:41] \u003c/em>Oh yeah, definitely. I think, you know, I’m just really excited for women’s sports period in the Bay Area. I think being down in San Jose, I’m pretty close to where Bay FC plays. And so that’s also a top of my list as a summer activity. And when we covered the Valkyries, I was looking up a lot of sports content. And so now my YouTube algorithm is just purely basketball. So that’s, also dragged me into the NBA playoffs too. I’m generally just really excited about sports this summer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:13] \u003c/em>Yes, join us. The algorithm is roping you in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:20] \u003c/em>Well, Mel, thank you so much for joining us for this first part of our news roundup.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mel Velasquez: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:27] \u003c/em>It’s always a pleasure, Ericka. And when we come back, we’ll dig into some of the other stories that we’ve been following this month. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:44] \u003c/em>And welcome back to the Bays Monthly News Roundup where we talk about some of the other stories that we’ve been following this month and Alan will dive right in with your story. What have you been following?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:55] \u003c/em>Well, obviously, at the federal level, one of the biggest pieces of news is President Trump’s so-called big, beautiful bill, a.k.a. The big budget reconciliation bill that is making its way through Congress recently past the House. There are many different aspects to it that are getting attention, including potential cuts to the safety net, things like Medicaid, Medicare, potential tax breaks for the rich. But one. Element of this bill that has also gotten attention here in California has to do with artificial intelligence. Most of the reporting I read to prep for this segment, uh, comes from Kari Johnson from CalMatters. So the bill that passed the house recently that’s being considered in the Senate includes a moratorium, essentially a ban on state regulations of AI for 10 years, you know, that has obviously caused considerable alarm here in California. Which is not only home to many, many AI companies, including OpenAI, but also home to many state-level regulations of\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:55] \u003c/em>Wow, I mean, living in Silicon Valley and being a journalist, I can definitely understand the concerns, you know, articles have been used to train AI, and that’s been a big issue. But I guess what’s the argument behind this ban?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:12] \u003c/em>One argument that House Republicans have made is that we essentially have a patchwork of regulations right now when it comes to AI.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rep. Jay Obernolte: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:19] \u003c/em>What we absolutely cannot have is a situation where the rules on the governance of AI change every time the winds of political fortune shift one way or another.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:29] \u003c/em>Representative Jay Obernolte, who is a Republican and represents parts of LA, Kern County, San Bernardino counties, at a committee hearing earlier this month, basically argued that this patchwork of regulations that we have across states, so it’s different in each state, is bad for U.S. Competitiveness. It’s bad for entrepreneurs who will sort of have to navigate different sets of rules across states.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rep. Jay Obernolte: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:54] \u003c/em>Innovators and investors that are making billion-dollar decisions on R&D and procurement, and they need regulatory certainty to do that, and the only way that that happens is if we provide that leadership.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:09:04] \u003c/em>Some Republicans have argued that this moratorium would pave the way for a more comprehensive federal approach to AI. But I think big picture, President Trump and his administration have signaled an interest in deregulation more broadly, whether it’s AI, whether its the environment, whether it’s financial institutions. So there’s sort of different arguments in that vein, but those are some of the reasons why there’s this 10-year ban on regulations of AI in this bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:09:35] \u003c/em>So I mean, how would this even work exactly, Alan? I mean aren’t we talking about laws that have already been passed by the California State Legislature and signed into law? And then isn’t California also currently considering a bunch of AI regulations now? I mean what would this ban do exactly? How would it work?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:01] \u003c/em>Well, I mean, it would make it unlawful to enforce many of our laws regarding AI here in California, and it would potentially preempt the nearly 30 bills that are currently being considered in the California state legislature. Now last year, the legislature passed around 20 laws related to AI. Some advocates wanted the state to get going even stronger on regulations, but there For many that did pass, including things like… Um, requiring political campaigns to disclose when AI is being used in advertising measures that protect children, you know, requiring companies to provide free AI detection tools to the public. This 10 year ban would render many of these measures unlawful to enforce.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:43] \u003c/em>What have the reactions been?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:45] \u003c/em>You know, some Democrats in Congress have expressed concern, although they don’t really have any power to stop it since they’re in the minority.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rep Kevin Mullen: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:51] \u003c/em>The idea that we have to pick between innovation and safeguards just doesn’t hold up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:55] \u003c/em>Representative Kevin Mullen, who represents the peninsula, sat in an energy committee hearing that he thinks this sort of blanket deregulation, as he called it, isn’t the right approach.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rep Kevin Mullen: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:05] \u003c/em>The real threat to U.S. Leadership in AI isn’t regulation, it’s inaction. If we allow AI systems operate without guardrails, we risk eroding public trust. So when we talk about AI regulation and American leadership, the real question isn’t whether to regulate. It’s where and how.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:23] \u003c/em>The California Privacy Protection Agency sent a letter to Congress saying that this moratorium could, quote, rob millions of Americans of rights they already enjoy. So certainly from, you know, many Democrats here in California and privacy advocates, This is pretty alarming.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:39] \u003c/em>I mean, will this ban on AI regulations actually happen or not? Like how likely is it that this will in fact move forward?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:52] \u003c/em>It’s unclear, and it’s a little wheezy, but the reason it’s unclear is because the so-called big, beautiful bill of President Trump’s is what’s called a budget reconciliation bill, which is to say that this sweeping bill needs to include measures that are related to fiscal matters in order for it to pass, and in order to only need 51 senators for it pass. One privacy advocate who spoke to Kari Johnson from CalMatters… Pointed out that a 10 year moratorium on AI regulations, is that a fiscal matter? I mean, probably not. But these advocates are still concerned because it sort of puts a marker down for how House Republicans are thinking about this issue. And maybe even if it doesn’t make it into this giant budget bill, it may get attached to a different bill related to AI later down the line.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:12:38] \u003c/em>Well, definitely something to watch in the coming months. Alan, thank you so much. And next we have my story that I’ve been following this month, which is an update on an alternative to police that was established in Oakland after the murder of George Floyd in 2020. If you all remember, Oakland really became the epicenter nationally of efforts to find an alternative to policing. They really went ahead with a program really try to do that and now there’s new data on how that alternative has been working in the last few years. Oakland’s civilian response team also known as the mobile assistance community responders of Oakland you probably know it more or hear it more so referred to as MACRO has responded to more than 6 000 incidents last year according to a report released to the city council this week. And it was able to divert hundreds of calls away from law enforcement and emergency services according to this data, which the folks behind MACRO really see as a success.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:02] \u003c/em>You mentioned that they responded to over 6,000 incidents, and those were instances that people avoided calling the police. So what kinds of non-emergency incidents were they responding to?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:15] \u003c/em>Yeah, so MACRO was really looking at the kind of situations that have too often led to violence only after police show up. You know, a mental health crisis that escalates, a man sleeping in a car, for example, and they really stress that their focus is these non-violent incidents. Anything that involves violence is really, in their minds, a police matter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:42] \u003c/em>So what else can you tell us about this data? And I’m curious, are there any areas of improvements, places where macro could do better?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:50] \u003c/em>Yeah, so the data shows that most of the incidents that they responded to occurred downtown and on city streets. So really, this shows that they’re dealing mostly with the city’s unhoused population. And the most common incident was actually a wellness check that made up 54% of the calls that they received. That was followed by sleeping checks and also behavioral concerns. Most notably, Macro says that its dispatched responses diverted 34% of calls away from law enforcement and away from emergency services. Almost 100% of these incidents were resolved on site without requiring police or EMS intervention. Elliot Jones, who’s the program manager for Macro, delivered some of this data to Oakland City Council earlier this week in. He shared this example of the kind of stuff that they’re responding to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Elliot Jones: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:15:52] \u003c/em>Couple days ago, we get a call about an elderly individual on a porch on the North Oakland Berkeley border. We get there, this man had wandered out of his home. He was having memory issues, but MACRO was able to respond and make the connection. And while it doesn’t always show up on the stat sheet, and the news report didn’t include us, it did say, update, he’s been found.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:13] \u003c/em>That said, there was criticism at the city council meeting around macro. Some say that the team is just too limited in the things that it could actually do to help the problems going on in Oakland. Some say that too few 911 calls are being even routed to macro. Others said that, you know, this money could be used for the Oakland fire department, which has had to close fire stations around the city. And others say that not enough people know that macro is even a service that’s available to people in the community. There’s also this question around independent auditing of macro. These numbers that were shared at the city council meeting were mostly just numbers that macro itself was keeping track of. And Jones agrees with critics that there should be some sort of independent oversight. And monitoring of how exactly Macro is doing to help him make the case that this is a program actually worth keeping around if it could get the resources it needs to do what I think many Oaklanders have really demanded after the death of George Floyd.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:17:33] \u003c/em>So, I mean, what happens next? I mean I know Oakland’s in the middle of a major budget crisis. So, you know, is macro gonna be able to stick around? Do we know anything?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:17:45] \u003c/em>Yeah, I think Elliot Jones, Macros program manager, is very aware of Oakland’s budget issues. He told KTVU that a state grant of $10 million that they’ve been using to really run this program ends next year, at the end of 2026, and that it’s gonna take about $4 million annually to keep this program running. And Joan says that he is working with the city and also really looking for grants to make sure that this kind of program can stay afloat in Oakland. All right, and that is it for the story I’ve been following this month. Jessica Kariisa, we will end it off with you and a fun story\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:18:40] \u003c/em>Yeah, this is more maybe an announcement than story per se, but the Bay Area’s very own Ruby Ibarra won NPR’s 2025 Tiny Desk Contest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ruby Ibarra (rapping): \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:18:52] \u003c/em>Hello America, break your backs for dollars they don’t carry ya Seven thousand miles away from home with language barriers Land of opportunity, tell me is it good to ya But six feet deep on stolen land is where they bury ya November 1991\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:19:04] \u003c/em>She was chosen as the winner from over 7,000 submissions of independent artists from across the country. It’s a really huge deal. It’s really huge platform. Most people have heard of Tiny Desk. She’s joining the ranks of lots of great artists, including Fantastic Negrito, who also was based in the Bay Area, and Tank and the Bangas, and so many other great artists.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ruby Ibarra (rapping): \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:19:29] \u003c/em>They always feed in a slice Made to believe I don’t exist unless I wear a disguise Cause I’ve been constantly lying Too broken to die till I cry Till I no longer recognize the person that was inside Until we fail like the sun\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:19:40] \u003c/em>This is super exciting for the Bay Area. Ruby Ibarra is someone who, you know, I’ve been aware of for a while because she’s Filipina. ECG as well. But Jessica, can you tell us a bit more about her background in the Bay area and the kind of music she performs?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:19:56] \u003c/em>For sure, yeah. So Ruby, she was born in the Philippines. She immigrated to the U.S. As a young child. She grew up in San Lorenzo, shout out to the East Bay. And, you know, she’s been making music for a while. I mean, her debut mixtape came out in 2012. Her immigrant experience has been a huge part of her music, dating back to her debut album, Circa 91. You know, her raps in multiple languages. She raps English and also multiple Filipino languages, including Tagalog and her native Waray. You know, she’s someone I heard about when I first moved to the Bay Area and was looking into the music scene. She’s really just been a staple in the Bay area as an independent artist for so long. So this really feels like a victory lap and a culmination of all her really hard work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:20:43] \u003c/em>One thing I really love about Ruby Ibara, I feel like she’s one of those artists who shares in her success. Like she lifts up others as she’s also coming up. I got a chance to interview her at a Filipino arts event that we did at KQED in 2023. And one of the things that she did during her performance was like, have a young up and coming Filipino American artists perform with her. And I feel like. She also really highlights other people in the community in the winning song that she performed. Can you talk a little bit more about the tiny desk that she preformed and that actually ended up winning?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:21:25] \u003c/em>Yeah, so the song is called Bakunawa.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ruby Ibarra (rapping): \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:21:28] \u003c/em>I need a Samaria combined into one I’ve been blue like the ocean, we all grew When we moved one of you like our red Till I’m white, that’s the bluest Blue like the moon, like the eyes in the brew\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:21:38] \u003c/em>and it’s a reference to a dragon-like serpent in Philippine mythology who swallows the moon and is believed to cause eclipses, earthquakes, and you know other weather-related events. Basically like a disruptive force that typically people want to banish but she told KQED that she wanted to flip the story and embody the Bakunawa.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Singing: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:22:00] \u003c/em>Hoi hoi hoiii\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:22:08] \u003c/em>and that she interpreted the story as a metaphor for resistance and a battle cry against erasure. And the performance video is really cool. She had an all-Filipina band. She was pregnant with her first child while she made the song and while she recorded the video. And so she’s talked about how her daughter and being pregnant has also played a big part in it. And also the song is just great. It’s really funky. There’s a spoken word portion. There’s the rap portion. Like I said before, it’s in multiple languages. And it’s just a really, really beautiful, powerful video.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Singing: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:22:45] \u003c/em>If I don’t know me, what is my past? If I dont know me what is…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:22:58] \u003c/em>So winning Tiny Desk. Huge deal. So what happens now that she’s won the contest?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:23:03] \u003c/em>She submitted her video, she won, and the next step was to record an actual Tiny Desk at the Tiny Desks in D.C. And that just dropped on YouTube, so you can go watch that. And that performance is expanded. It’s three songs, so, you get to listen to a bit more of her catalog. And she’s also going to headline a 10-city Tiny Desktour this summer. You can buy tickets to that already at tinydeskcontest.npr.org. There’ll be a stop in the Bay Area and Petaluma. And yeah, I mean, like you were saying, it’s a huge, huge platform. So, you know, she’s already collected new fans. She’ll keep collecting more new fans and it’s really gonna be just a huge leveling up of her career.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ruby Ibarra (rapping): \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:23:47] \u003c/em>The sun touched my skin in hopes that I’d win Hands etched with sorrows deeper than the ocean’s depths History rooted in my people’s death This breath been enveloped, consumed, swallowed whole On nights where one moon seems fleeting so Even seven moons don’t illuminate like my soul My rage spoon-feeder, moon eater, truth keeper Naabay kahadlukan wala diri Bisaya ni ang dilahait kaayotan awa ni Gigaun ang bulan revolution in me Naan na ang bakunawa Rebirth the new moon\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:24:26] \u003c/em>It’s so exciting to see Ruby Ibarra up there on that tiny desk and representing the Bay Area and Bay Area Pin Eyes. Thanks for sharing this one, Jessica.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:24:37] \u003c/em>Yeah, absolutely.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:24:45] \u003c/em>Well, that’s it for the Bays monthly news roundup. Jessica Kariisa, producer, and Alan Montecillo, thank you both so much for joining me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>\u003ci>Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. San Francisco Northern California Local.\u003c/i>\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>On this month’s edition of The Bay’s news roundup, we talk about a proposed 10-year ban on state AI regulations that the House of Representatives passed as part of President Trump’s budget bill. Plus, Oakland’s MACRO program – a non-emergency alternative to police – releases new data, and the Bay Area’s very own Ruby Ibarra wins NPR’s Tiny Desk Contest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli class=\"entry-title \">\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2025/05/state-ai-regulation-ban/\">Californians would lose AI protections under bill advancing in Congress\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.ktvu.com/news/oaklands-macro-touts-improvements-despite-criticism-needs-4m-year-survive\">Oakland’s MACRO touts improvements despite criticism; needs $4M a year to survive\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/05/29/g-s1-69049/ruby-ibarra-tiny-desk-concert\">Ruby Ibarra: NPR Tiny Desk Concert\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC5175160153&light=true\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:54] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz Guevara and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. And welcome to the Bay’s May news roundup where I sit down with the rest of the Bay team to talk about some of the other Bay Area stories that we’ve been following this month. I’m joined by our producer, Jessica Carissa. Hey Jessica.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:12] \u003c/em>Hey.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:14] \u003c/em>And senior editor, Alan Montesilio. What’s up, Alan?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:17] \u003c/em>Hello.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:18] \u003c/em>And also our intern, Mel Velasquez.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mel Velasquez: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:21] \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:22] \u003c/em>Well, first I wanna take a quick look back at some of the stories that we did cover on this show this month. This May we marked 50 years since the fall of Saigon and talked about how that moment in history really shaped Santa Clara County and San Jose as we know it today. We discussed the Trump administration’s cancelation of federal arts funds and what that is going to mean for the local art scene here in the Bay Area. And we talked about the Golden State Valkyries who began their first season here in the Bay area and also they recently had their first win. And Mel, I wanna turn to you for a second because you actually went out to a pre-season game party in the Mission to get a sense of the vibes, the excitement around the Valkyrys for our show. And you also went to the home opener. How was that?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mel Velasquez: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:22] \u003c/em>It was really fun, it was really packed. I went to Standard Deviant, which is in the mission, and it was hosted by Ricky’s, which will be the new women’s sports bar that’s coming to the Castro soon. There were a lot of people who were excited for the Valkyries, and it just a pre-season game. Um, but then when I went to the home opener, it was completely sold out. I mean, the energy was insane. They had pyrotechnics inside the Chase Center. It was a sea of purple. People were screaming and then they had like the segment where they were showing like the first Valkyries fan that entered the Chase Center at their first game. There was just like a lot of celebration, yeah it was just a really good time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:03:17] \u003c/em>And if you listen to the show, you probably know that our senior editor, Alan Montecilio, is a basketball head. Alan, how have you been feeling about the Valkyries starting their season here in the Bay? I mean, you already have a Valkry’s sweater.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:03:35] \u003c/em>Oh yeah, I have a Valkyries hoodie. Got a lot of compliments on it. Thank you for asking. As Mel was saying, they really leaned into the first theme. The t-shirts around the stands had the words first of a lifetime on them. And actually we have two wins as of this taping. The Valkyrys are two and two. You know, expectations for a lot of wins are not super high, but it’s more about getting excited for the team, getting to know the players. So yeah, it’s cool to just walk around and see people wearing the gear and watching Chase Center. Get really loud. I mean the Warriors season is over too so you know for the next four to five months the Valkyries will be the only pro basketball team in the Bay Area playing at Chase Center.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:16] \u003c/em>That’s true, I didn’t even think about that. And yeah, I really have been seeing more and more gear out there. Last weekend we went and visited Jessica in San Jose, where she lives, and I feel like I was even seeing Valkyrie’s gear out in the wild over there. Are you excited about the Valkyrys, Jessica? Are you planning to watch?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:41] \u003c/em>Oh yeah, definitely. I think, you know, I’m just really excited for women’s sports period in the Bay Area. I think being down in San Jose, I’m pretty close to where Bay FC plays. And so that’s also a top of my list as a summer activity. And when we covered the Valkyries, I was looking up a lot of sports content. And so now my YouTube algorithm is just purely basketball. So that’s, also dragged me into the NBA playoffs too. I’m generally just really excited about sports this summer.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:13] \u003c/em>Yes, join us. The algorithm is roping you in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:20] \u003c/em>Well, Mel, thank you so much for joining us for this first part of our news roundup.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mel Velasquez: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:27] \u003c/em>It’s always a pleasure, Ericka. And when we come back, we’ll dig into some of the other stories that we’ve been following this month. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:44] \u003c/em>And welcome back to the Bays Monthly News Roundup where we talk about some of the other stories that we’ve been following this month and Alan will dive right in with your story. What have you been following?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:55] \u003c/em>Well, obviously, at the federal level, one of the biggest pieces of news is President Trump’s so-called big, beautiful bill, a.k.a. The big budget reconciliation bill that is making its way through Congress recently past the House. There are many different aspects to it that are getting attention, including potential cuts to the safety net, things like Medicaid, Medicare, potential tax breaks for the rich. But one. Element of this bill that has also gotten attention here in California has to do with artificial intelligence. Most of the reporting I read to prep for this segment, uh, comes from Kari Johnson from CalMatters. So the bill that passed the house recently that’s being considered in the Senate includes a moratorium, essentially a ban on state regulations of AI for 10 years, you know, that has obviously caused considerable alarm here in California. Which is not only home to many, many AI companies, including OpenAI, but also home to many state-level regulations of\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:55] \u003c/em>Wow, I mean, living in Silicon Valley and being a journalist, I can definitely understand the concerns, you know, articles have been used to train AI, and that’s been a big issue. But I guess what’s the argument behind this ban?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:12] \u003c/em>One argument that House Republicans have made is that we essentially have a patchwork of regulations right now when it comes to AI.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rep. Jay Obernolte: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:19] \u003c/em>What we absolutely cannot have is a situation where the rules on the governance of AI change every time the winds of political fortune shift one way or another.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:29] \u003c/em>Representative Jay Obernolte, who is a Republican and represents parts of LA, Kern County, San Bernardino counties, at a committee hearing earlier this month, basically argued that this patchwork of regulations that we have across states, so it’s different in each state, is bad for U.S. Competitiveness. It’s bad for entrepreneurs who will sort of have to navigate different sets of rules across states.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rep. Jay Obernolte: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:54] \u003c/em>Innovators and investors that are making billion-dollar decisions on R&D and procurement, and they need regulatory certainty to do that, and the only way that that happens is if we provide that leadership.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:09:04] \u003c/em>Some Republicans have argued that this moratorium would pave the way for a more comprehensive federal approach to AI. But I think big picture, President Trump and his administration have signaled an interest in deregulation more broadly, whether it’s AI, whether its the environment, whether it’s financial institutions. So there’s sort of different arguments in that vein, but those are some of the reasons why there’s this 10-year ban on regulations of AI in this bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:09:35] \u003c/em>So I mean, how would this even work exactly, Alan? I mean aren’t we talking about laws that have already been passed by the California State Legislature and signed into law? And then isn’t California also currently considering a bunch of AI regulations now? I mean what would this ban do exactly? How would it work?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:01] \u003c/em>Well, I mean, it would make it unlawful to enforce many of our laws regarding AI here in California, and it would potentially preempt the nearly 30 bills that are currently being considered in the California state legislature. Now last year, the legislature passed around 20 laws related to AI. Some advocates wanted the state to get going even stronger on regulations, but there For many that did pass, including things like… Um, requiring political campaigns to disclose when AI is being used in advertising measures that protect children, you know, requiring companies to provide free AI detection tools to the public. This 10 year ban would render many of these measures unlawful to enforce.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:43] \u003c/em>What have the reactions been?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:45] \u003c/em>You know, some Democrats in Congress have expressed concern, although they don’t really have any power to stop it since they’re in the minority.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rep Kevin Mullen: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:51] \u003c/em>The idea that we have to pick between innovation and safeguards just doesn’t hold up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:55] \u003c/em>Representative Kevin Mullen, who represents the peninsula, sat in an energy committee hearing that he thinks this sort of blanket deregulation, as he called it, isn’t the right approach.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rep Kevin Mullen: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:05] \u003c/em>The real threat to U.S. Leadership in AI isn’t regulation, it’s inaction. If we allow AI systems operate without guardrails, we risk eroding public trust. So when we talk about AI regulation and American leadership, the real question isn’t whether to regulate. It’s where and how.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:23] \u003c/em>The California Privacy Protection Agency sent a letter to Congress saying that this moratorium could, quote, rob millions of Americans of rights they already enjoy. So certainly from, you know, many Democrats here in California and privacy advocates, This is pretty alarming.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:39] \u003c/em>I mean, will this ban on AI regulations actually happen or not? Like how likely is it that this will in fact move forward?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:52] \u003c/em>It’s unclear, and it’s a little wheezy, but the reason it’s unclear is because the so-called big, beautiful bill of President Trump’s is what’s called a budget reconciliation bill, which is to say that this sweeping bill needs to include measures that are related to fiscal matters in order for it to pass, and in order to only need 51 senators for it pass. One privacy advocate who spoke to Kari Johnson from CalMatters… Pointed out that a 10 year moratorium on AI regulations, is that a fiscal matter? I mean, probably not. But these advocates are still concerned because it sort of puts a marker down for how House Republicans are thinking about this issue. And maybe even if it doesn’t make it into this giant budget bill, it may get attached to a different bill related to AI later down the line.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:12:38] \u003c/em>Well, definitely something to watch in the coming months. Alan, thank you so much. And next we have my story that I’ve been following this month, which is an update on an alternative to police that was established in Oakland after the murder of George Floyd in 2020. If you all remember, Oakland really became the epicenter nationally of efforts to find an alternative to policing. They really went ahead with a program really try to do that and now there’s new data on how that alternative has been working in the last few years. Oakland’s civilian response team also known as the mobile assistance community responders of Oakland you probably know it more or hear it more so referred to as MACRO has responded to more than 6 000 incidents last year according to a report released to the city council this week. And it was able to divert hundreds of calls away from law enforcement and emergency services according to this data, which the folks behind MACRO really see as a success.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:02] \u003c/em>You mentioned that they responded to over 6,000 incidents, and those were instances that people avoided calling the police. So what kinds of non-emergency incidents were they responding to?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:15] \u003c/em>Yeah, so MACRO was really looking at the kind of situations that have too often led to violence only after police show up. You know, a mental health crisis that escalates, a man sleeping in a car, for example, and they really stress that their focus is these non-violent incidents. Anything that involves violence is really, in their minds, a police matter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:42] \u003c/em>So what else can you tell us about this data? And I’m curious, are there any areas of improvements, places where macro could do better?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:50] \u003c/em>Yeah, so the data shows that most of the incidents that they responded to occurred downtown and on city streets. So really, this shows that they’re dealing mostly with the city’s unhoused population. And the most common incident was actually a wellness check that made up 54% of the calls that they received. That was followed by sleeping checks and also behavioral concerns. Most notably, Macro says that its dispatched responses diverted 34% of calls away from law enforcement and away from emergency services. Almost 100% of these incidents were resolved on site without requiring police or EMS intervention. Elliot Jones, who’s the program manager for Macro, delivered some of this data to Oakland City Council earlier this week in. He shared this example of the kind of stuff that they’re responding to.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Elliot Jones: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:15:52] \u003c/em>Couple days ago, we get a call about an elderly individual on a porch on the North Oakland Berkeley border. We get there, this man had wandered out of his home. He was having memory issues, but MACRO was able to respond and make the connection. And while it doesn’t always show up on the stat sheet, and the news report didn’t include us, it did say, update, he’s been found.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:13] \u003c/em>That said, there was criticism at the city council meeting around macro. Some say that the team is just too limited in the things that it could actually do to help the problems going on in Oakland. Some say that too few 911 calls are being even routed to macro. Others said that, you know, this money could be used for the Oakland fire department, which has had to close fire stations around the city. And others say that not enough people know that macro is even a service that’s available to people in the community. There’s also this question around independent auditing of macro. These numbers that were shared at the city council meeting were mostly just numbers that macro itself was keeping track of. And Jones agrees with critics that there should be some sort of independent oversight. And monitoring of how exactly Macro is doing to help him make the case that this is a program actually worth keeping around if it could get the resources it needs to do what I think many Oaklanders have really demanded after the death of George Floyd.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:17:33] \u003c/em>So, I mean, what happens next? I mean I know Oakland’s in the middle of a major budget crisis. So, you know, is macro gonna be able to stick around? Do we know anything?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:17:45] \u003c/em>Yeah, I think Elliot Jones, Macros program manager, is very aware of Oakland’s budget issues. He told KTVU that a state grant of $10 million that they’ve been using to really run this program ends next year, at the end of 2026, and that it’s gonna take about $4 million annually to keep this program running. And Joan says that he is working with the city and also really looking for grants to make sure that this kind of program can stay afloat in Oakland. All right, and that is it for the story I’ve been following this month. Jessica Kariisa, we will end it off with you and a fun story\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:18:40] \u003c/em>Yeah, this is more maybe an announcement than story per se, but the Bay Area’s very own Ruby Ibarra won NPR’s 2025 Tiny Desk Contest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ruby Ibarra (rapping): \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:18:52] \u003c/em>Hello America, break your backs for dollars they don’t carry ya Seven thousand miles away from home with language barriers Land of opportunity, tell me is it good to ya But six feet deep on stolen land is where they bury ya November 1991\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:19:04] \u003c/em>She was chosen as the winner from over 7,000 submissions of independent artists from across the country. It’s a really huge deal. It’s really huge platform. Most people have heard of Tiny Desk. She’s joining the ranks of lots of great artists, including Fantastic Negrito, who also was based in the Bay Area, and Tank and the Bangas, and so many other great artists.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ruby Ibarra (rapping): \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:19:29] \u003c/em>They always feed in a slice Made to believe I don’t exist unless I wear a disguise Cause I’ve been constantly lying Too broken to die till I cry Till I no longer recognize the person that was inside Until we fail like the sun\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:19:40] \u003c/em>This is super exciting for the Bay Area. Ruby Ibarra is someone who, you know, I’ve been aware of for a while because she’s Filipina. ECG as well. But Jessica, can you tell us a bit more about her background in the Bay area and the kind of music she performs?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:19:56] \u003c/em>For sure, yeah. So Ruby, she was born in the Philippines. She immigrated to the U.S. As a young child. She grew up in San Lorenzo, shout out to the East Bay. And, you know, she’s been making music for a while. I mean, her debut mixtape came out in 2012. Her immigrant experience has been a huge part of her music, dating back to her debut album, Circa 91. You know, her raps in multiple languages. She raps English and also multiple Filipino languages, including Tagalog and her native Waray. You know, she’s someone I heard about when I first moved to the Bay Area and was looking into the music scene. She’s really just been a staple in the Bay area as an independent artist for so long. So this really feels like a victory lap and a culmination of all her really hard work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:20:43] \u003c/em>One thing I really love about Ruby Ibara, I feel like she’s one of those artists who shares in her success. Like she lifts up others as she’s also coming up. I got a chance to interview her at a Filipino arts event that we did at KQED in 2023. And one of the things that she did during her performance was like, have a young up and coming Filipino American artists perform with her. And I feel like. She also really highlights other people in the community in the winning song that she performed. Can you talk a little bit more about the tiny desk that she preformed and that actually ended up winning?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:21:25] \u003c/em>Yeah, so the song is called Bakunawa.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ruby Ibarra (rapping): \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:21:28] \u003c/em>I need a Samaria combined into one I’ve been blue like the ocean, we all grew When we moved one of you like our red Till I’m white, that’s the bluest Blue like the moon, like the eyes in the brew\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:21:38] \u003c/em>and it’s a reference to a dragon-like serpent in Philippine mythology who swallows the moon and is believed to cause eclipses, earthquakes, and you know other weather-related events. Basically like a disruptive force that typically people want to banish but she told KQED that she wanted to flip the story and embody the Bakunawa.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Singing: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:22:00] \u003c/em>Hoi hoi hoiii\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:22:08] \u003c/em>and that she interpreted the story as a metaphor for resistance and a battle cry against erasure. And the performance video is really cool. She had an all-Filipina band. She was pregnant with her first child while she made the song and while she recorded the video. And so she’s talked about how her daughter and being pregnant has also played a big part in it. And also the song is just great. It’s really funky. There’s a spoken word portion. There’s the rap portion. Like I said before, it’s in multiple languages. And it’s just a really, really beautiful, powerful video.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Singing: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:22:45] \u003c/em>If I don’t know me, what is my past? If I dont know me what is…\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Alan Montecillo: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:22:58] \u003c/em>So winning Tiny Desk. Huge deal. So what happens now that she’s won the contest?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:23:03] \u003c/em>She submitted her video, she won, and the next step was to record an actual Tiny Desk at the Tiny Desks in D.C. And that just dropped on YouTube, so you can go watch that. And that performance is expanded. It’s three songs, so, you get to listen to a bit more of her catalog. And she’s also going to headline a 10-city Tiny Desktour this summer. You can buy tickets to that already at tinydeskcontest.npr.org. There’ll be a stop in the Bay Area and Petaluma. And yeah, I mean, like you were saying, it’s a huge, huge platform. So, you know, she’s already collected new fans. She’ll keep collecting more new fans and it’s really gonna be just a huge leveling up of her career.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ruby Ibarra (rapping): \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:23:47] \u003c/em>The sun touched my skin in hopes that I’d win Hands etched with sorrows deeper than the ocean’s depths History rooted in my people’s death This breath been enveloped, consumed, swallowed whole On nights where one moon seems fleeting so Even seven moons don’t illuminate like my soul My rage spoon-feeder, moon eater, truth keeper Naabay kahadlukan wala diri Bisaya ni ang dilahait kaayotan awa ni Gigaun ang bulan revolution in me Naan na ang bakunawa Rebirth the new moon\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:24:26] \u003c/em>It’s so exciting to see Ruby Ibarra up there on that tiny desk and representing the Bay Area and Bay Area Pin Eyes. Thanks for sharing this one, Jessica.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jessica Kariisa: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:24:37] \u003c/em>Yeah, absolutely.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:24:45] \u003c/em>Well, that’s it for the Bays monthly news roundup. Jessica Kariisa, producer, and Alan Montecillo, thank you both so much for joining me.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cem>This story was originally published by \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/\">CalMatters\u003c/a>. \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/subscribe-to-calmatters/\">Sign up\u003c/a> for their newsletters.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>House Republicans moved to cut off artificial intelligence regulation by the states before it can take root, advancing legislation in Congress that, in California, would make it unlawful to enforce \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/09/california-ai-safety-regulations-bills/\">more than 20 laws passed by the Legislature\u003c/a> and signed into law last year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The moratorium, bundled in to a sweeping budget reconciliation bill this week, also threatens \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2025/03/ai-regulation-after-trump-election/\">30 bills the California Legislature is currently considering to regulate artificial intelligence\u003c/a>, including one that would \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260ab512\">require reporting when an insurance company uses AI to deny health care\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260ab1018\">another\u003c/a> that would require the makers of AI to evaluate how the tech performs before it’s used to decide on jobs, health care, or housing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The California Privacy Protection Agency \u003ca href=\"https://cppa.ca.gov/pdf/cppa_letter_opossing_budget_recon_enforce.pdf\">sent a letter\u003c/a> to Congress Monday that says the moratorium “could rob millions of Americans of rights they already enjoy” and threatens critical privacy protections approved by California voters in 2020, such as the right to opt out of business use of automated decision-making technology and transparency about how their personal information is used.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If passed, the law would stop legislative efforts in the works nationwide. Lawmakers from 45 states are or have considered nearly 600 draft bills to regulate artificial intelligence this year, according to the \u003ca href=\"https://www.transparencycoalition.ai/\">Transparency Coalition\u003c/a>, a group that tracks AI policy efforts by state lawmakers and supports legislation to regulate the technology. California has passed more bills since 2016 to regulate AI than any other U.S. state, according to Stanford’s \u003ca href=\"https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2025-ai-index-report\">2025 AI Index report\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The measure was introduced by Congressman Brett Guthrie, a Republican from Kentucky and chair of the House Energy and Commerce committee, who said it is necessary to resolve a patchwork of state regulation. On Wednesday, members of Congress in that House committee voted 30–24 along party lines to approve the budget bill that includes the moratorium. It will now advance to the House floor and potentially the Senate, where some observers say it faces an uphill battle against rules that limit policy changes in budget proposals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=news_12034490 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/PadillaMentalHealthCaucus-1020x680.jpg']\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As written, the moratorium would lift after 10 years. But it would have plenty of impact in the meantime, said Ben Winters, an attorney for the Consumer Federation of America. In California, he thinks the legislation could halt efforts by the Privacy Protection Agency to regulate automated decision-making, prevent enforcement of laws to \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/explainers/new-california-laws-2024/#3650b1e8-5ee9-49e6-8504-a636608a7de4\">protect voters from deepfakes\u003c/a> and short circuit draft bills aimed at \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260ab1018\">protecting people from discrimination\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/12/california-lawmakers-want-to-ban-pricing-software/\">landlords who use AI to raise rent prices\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If this bill were to pass, California couldn’t protect its citizens from exactly those harms,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Companies and lobbyists are attempting to use Washington, D.C., to undermine California’s legislative AI leadership, said state Sen. Josh Becker, a Democrat from Menlo Park, in the heart of Silicon Valley. Becker has \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202320240sb1120\">authored\u003c/a> or \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2025/04/kids-should-avoid-ai-companion-bots-under-force-of-law-assessment-says/\">coauthored\u003c/a> a \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2025/04/kids-should-avoid-ai-companion-bots-under-force-of-law-assessment-says/\">number\u003c/a> of bills regulating AI, including one signed into law that requires AI makers\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202320240sb942\"> provide tools to consumers so they know when generative AI is in use\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This is an effort to tell people when something was created by AI, and so if this gets delayed for a year or two or 10 it’s going to have really negative consequences,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What’s unclear, he said, is exactly what regulation is covered by the moratorium. Would it, for example, wipe out privacy protections that Californians enjoy, and which were \u003ca href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/apra-privacy-bill-doomed/\">targeted by Congressional legislation last year\u003c/a>? And how would it affect a bill Becker authored that \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/04/data-broker-registry/\">gives people a way to quickly delete personal information collected by data brokers\u003c/a>, set to go into effect next January?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If they preempt that, it’s really negative for the country,” he said. “We’re [California] big enough that we can influence the country on our own, but if they preempt what we’re doing then it’s up to the federal government who has been unable to act on these issues.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Momentum for AI harms — and, possibly, for curbs on regulation\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>For all the worry, the moratorium is very unlikely to pass if it reaches the U.S. Senate, said Gus Rossi, director of public policy and strategy at Omidyar Network, which funds \u003ca href=\"http://omidyar.com/omidyar-network-launches-a-dedicated-funding-effort-to-promote-inclusive-and-responsible-development-of-generative-ai/\">public interest AI projects\u003c/a> and tracks AI regulation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s because a federal regulation known as the \u003ca href=\"https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/R48444\">Byrd rule\u003c/a> requires that budget reconciliation bills be related to fiscal matters, and, in Rossi’s reading at least, a 10-year moratorium on AI regulation doesn’t fit that definition. But Rossi still thinks people should take it seriously, arguing that it’s an attempt by House Republicans to establish a marker on what they think should be the approach to AI legislation, and a sign of things to come.[aside postID=science_1996504 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2025/03/IMG_0962-1020x765.jpg']“The action is in the states, not D.C.,” he said. “That’s why some people in D.C. are trying to stop states … particularly California, who’s leading the pack.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If this bill or a similar one in the future passes, Rossi expects it would get challenged in court and put a chilling effect on efforts to regulate AI by state lawmakers. It’s unclear whether it’s legal for the federal government to make a blanket moratorium on state regulation, said Winters, who worked in the U.S. Department of Justice during the Biden administration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He agrees that the Byrd rule means the bill is unlikely to pass if it reaches the U.S. Senate, though Republicans may connect it to a $500 million plan to invest in AI for federal agencies and argue that it’s essential to limit state regulation in order to carry out certain budget provisions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The House bill makes exceptions for states to continue enforcing some laws related to AI, such as laws that enable more use of AI or that are intended to improve government efficiency. It’s reasonable to \u003ca href=\"https://iapp.org/news/a/policy-analysis-us-house-committee-seeks-moratorium-on-state-AI-rules/\">interpret one of the exceptions\u003c/a> to mean states like California could continue enforcing privacy law if this bill passed, said Amba Kak, codirector of The AI Now Institute, a research and equitable AI advocacy organization. But doing so is risky.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We can’t count on the fact that courts will see it this way, especially in the context of an otherwise sweeping moratorium with the clear intention to clamp down on AI-related enforcement,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A House AI task force spent years discussing areas of bipartisan agreement and possible bills to pass to regulate AI, New York Democrat Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said in a hearing about the moratorium, but Congress was unable to pass any of that legislation. During that time, people \u003ca href=\"https://themarkup.org/artificial-intelligence/2025/04/30/kids-should-avoid-ai-companion-bots-under-force-of-law-assessment-says\">committed suicide from their interactions with chatbots\u003c/a> and kids and teens were \u003ca href=\"https://themarkup.org/artificial-intelligence/2024/12/11/1-in-6-congresswomen-targeted-by-ai-generated-sexually-explicit-deepfakes\">harmed by falsely generated sexually exploitative deepfakes\u003c/a>, and so states decided to act to do things like force AI chatbots to protect the private information of people seeking mental health care in Utah and require chatbots include a protocol for when someone expresses the desire to commit self harm in New York.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“All of these protections are protections that Congress refuses to take up, refuses, and so states are taking up this responsibility,” Ocasio-Cortez said. “Let states protect people. A moratorium is a deeply dangerous idea at this moment.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Congresswoman Doris Matsui, a Democrat from the Sacramento area, echoed Ocasio-Cortez at the hearing, saying, “We can’t shoot ourselves in the foot by stopping the good work states have done and will continue to do.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Supporters of the moratorium identify different sorts of harm if it doesn’t pass. A patchwork of state regulations of AI “is the fastest way to secure Chinese dominance of AI,” said Jay Obernolte, a Republican from California and co-chair of the House AI task force. He supports a moratorium, and if Congress fails to act, he said the people it will hurt most are entrepreneurs who can’t afford to follow regulatory regimes passed by different states.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The most destructive thing is if there’s fear out there that every few years as the winds of political fortune shift, the rules governing the use of AI completely change,” he said during the hearing.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Broader pushback against AI regulation\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The proposed moratorium is in line with efforts to prevent regulation of AI by President Donald Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance, who say such regulations will stifle innovation. A \u003ca href=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/removing-barriers-to-american-leadership-in-artificial-intelligence/\">White House plan\u003c/a> to promote growth of the AI industry and likely reduce regulation is due out by this summer. Companies like Amazon, Google, Meta, and big businesses who use AI have lobbied in Sacramento and Washington, D.C., to prevent regulation of the technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Guthrie’s proposal comes a few days after Sen. Ted Cruz, a Republican from Texas, \u003ca href=\"https://punchbowl.news/article/tech/cruz-to-push-ai-regulation/\">pushed for “light touch” AI regulation\u003c/a> to ensure the United States maintains AI supremacy over other nations and to, in Cruz’s words, “prevent needless state over-regulation.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The intent of Guthrie’s bill, Winters believes, is to send a signal to tech companies and open up the door to possible future legislation if the budget reconciliation bill fails to pass. It’s a trend consistent with Senator Cruz’s statement last week and \u003ca href=\"https://www.energy.gov/articles/doe-identifies-16-federal-sites-across-country-data-center-and-ai-infrastructure\">efforts to remove red tape for data center projects on federal land\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’d describe this as … explicitly saying we are supporting the AI companies more than the American people,” he said. “We’re seeing an explicit turn toward a deregulatory state.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Federal lawmakers have steadily increased the number of bills they propose related to AI in recent years, but they have passed relatively few of them into law, according to the \u003ca href=\"https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2025-ai-index-report\">AI Index report\u003c/a>. Out of more 220 bills proposed last year, only four passed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By contrast, state lawmakers passed more than 130 bills to regulate AI last year. California passed \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/09/california-ai-safety-regulations-bills/\">22 bills last year\u003c/a>, more than any other state, and \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/05/ca-eu-ai-regulation/\">attempted to harmonize its rules with the European Union’s AI Act\u003c/a> and other U.S. states. \u003ca href=\"https://csmapnyu.org/impact/policy/the-state-of-state-technology-policy-2024-report\">The 2024 State of State Tech Policy report\u003c/a>, from NYU’s Center for Social Media and Politics, found a 163% increase in tech policy proposals by state lawmakers last year compared to 2023. That trend is driven by one-party control in the vast majority of state houses across the country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The adage that states are the laboratories of democracy is still true, said Scott Brennen, a coauthor of the State of State Tech Policy report, so shutting down their ability to try out different approaches doesn’t seem like a good idea and could undercut the federal government’s ability to make better policy. Since AI is getting integrated into an ever-wider range of tools, Guthrie’s moratorium appears to apply widely, he added, including to social media platforms, ongoing efforts by states to protect children online, and data privacy protections that address automated decision making.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t necessarily think state regulation of AI is always the best course of action, there are definitely areas like consumer data protection where it would be better if the federal government took the lead, but the federal government isn’t taking the lead,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This article was \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2025/05/state-ai-regulation-ban/\">originally published on CalMatters\u003c/a> and was republished under the \u003ca href=\"https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/\">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives\u003c/a> license.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "House Republicans want to ban state AI regulations for 10 years. California leaders are alarmed.",
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"title": "Californians Would Lose AI Protections Under Bill Advancing in Congress | KQED",
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"nprByline": "\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/author/khari-johnson/\">Khari Johnson\u003c/a>, CalMatters",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>This story was originally published by \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/\">CalMatters\u003c/a>. \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/subscribe-to-calmatters/\">Sign up\u003c/a> for their newsletters.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>House Republicans moved to cut off artificial intelligence regulation by the states before it can take root, advancing legislation in Congress that, in California, would make it unlawful to enforce \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/09/california-ai-safety-regulations-bills/\">more than 20 laws passed by the Legislature\u003c/a> and signed into law last year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The moratorium, bundled in to a sweeping budget reconciliation bill this week, also threatens \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2025/03/ai-regulation-after-trump-election/\">30 bills the California Legislature is currently considering to regulate artificial intelligence\u003c/a>, including one that would \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260ab512\">require reporting when an insurance company uses AI to deny health care\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260ab1018\">another\u003c/a> that would require the makers of AI to evaluate how the tech performs before it’s used to decide on jobs, health care, or housing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The California Privacy Protection Agency \u003ca href=\"https://cppa.ca.gov/pdf/cppa_letter_opossing_budget_recon_enforce.pdf\">sent a letter\u003c/a> to Congress Monday that says the moratorium “could rob millions of Americans of rights they already enjoy” and threatens critical privacy protections approved by California voters in 2020, such as the right to opt out of business use of automated decision-making technology and transparency about how their personal information is used.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If passed, the law would stop legislative efforts in the works nationwide. Lawmakers from 45 states are or have considered nearly 600 draft bills to regulate artificial intelligence this year, according to the \u003ca href=\"https://www.transparencycoalition.ai/\">Transparency Coalition\u003c/a>, a group that tracks AI policy efforts by state lawmakers and supports legislation to regulate the technology. California has passed more bills since 2016 to regulate AI than any other U.S. state, according to Stanford’s \u003ca href=\"https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2025-ai-index-report\">2025 AI Index report\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The measure was introduced by Congressman Brett Guthrie, a Republican from Kentucky and chair of the House Energy and Commerce committee, who said it is necessary to resolve a patchwork of state regulation. On Wednesday, members of Congress in that House committee voted 30–24 along party lines to approve the budget bill that includes the moratorium. It will now advance to the House floor and potentially the Senate, where some observers say it faces an uphill battle against rules that limit policy changes in budget proposals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As written, the moratorium would lift after 10 years. But it would have plenty of impact in the meantime, said Ben Winters, an attorney for the Consumer Federation of America. In California, he thinks the legislation could halt efforts by the Privacy Protection Agency to regulate automated decision-making, prevent enforcement of laws to \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/explainers/new-california-laws-2024/#3650b1e8-5ee9-49e6-8504-a636608a7de4\">protect voters from deepfakes\u003c/a> and short circuit draft bills aimed at \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260ab1018\">protecting people from discrimination\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/12/california-lawmakers-want-to-ban-pricing-software/\">landlords who use AI to raise rent prices\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If this bill were to pass, California couldn’t protect its citizens from exactly those harms,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Companies and lobbyists are attempting to use Washington, D.C., to undermine California’s legislative AI leadership, said state Sen. Josh Becker, a Democrat from Menlo Park, in the heart of Silicon Valley. Becker has \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202320240sb1120\">authored\u003c/a> or \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2025/04/kids-should-avoid-ai-companion-bots-under-force-of-law-assessment-says/\">coauthored\u003c/a> a \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2025/04/kids-should-avoid-ai-companion-bots-under-force-of-law-assessment-says/\">number\u003c/a> of bills regulating AI, including one signed into law that requires AI makers\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202320240sb942\"> provide tools to consumers so they know when generative AI is in use\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This is an effort to tell people when something was created by AI, and so if this gets delayed for a year or two or 10 it’s going to have really negative consequences,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What’s unclear, he said, is exactly what regulation is covered by the moratorium. Would it, for example, wipe out privacy protections that Californians enjoy, and which were \u003ca href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/apra-privacy-bill-doomed/\">targeted by Congressional legislation last year\u003c/a>? And how would it affect a bill Becker authored that \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/04/data-broker-registry/\">gives people a way to quickly delete personal information collected by data brokers\u003c/a>, set to go into effect next January?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If they preempt that, it’s really negative for the country,” he said. “We’re [California] big enough that we can influence the country on our own, but if they preempt what we’re doing then it’s up to the federal government who has been unable to act on these issues.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Momentum for AI harms — and, possibly, for curbs on regulation\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>For all the worry, the moratorium is very unlikely to pass if it reaches the U.S. Senate, said Gus Rossi, director of public policy and strategy at Omidyar Network, which funds \u003ca href=\"http://omidyar.com/omidyar-network-launches-a-dedicated-funding-effort-to-promote-inclusive-and-responsible-development-of-generative-ai/\">public interest AI projects\u003c/a> and tracks AI regulation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s because a federal regulation known as the \u003ca href=\"https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/R48444\">Byrd rule\u003c/a> requires that budget reconciliation bills be related to fiscal matters, and, in Rossi’s reading at least, a 10-year moratorium on AI regulation doesn’t fit that definition. But Rossi still thinks people should take it seriously, arguing that it’s an attempt by House Republicans to establish a marker on what they think should be the approach to AI legislation, and a sign of things to come.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“The action is in the states, not D.C.,” he said. “That’s why some people in D.C. are trying to stop states … particularly California, who’s leading the pack.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If this bill or a similar one in the future passes, Rossi expects it would get challenged in court and put a chilling effect on efforts to regulate AI by state lawmakers. It’s unclear whether it’s legal for the federal government to make a blanket moratorium on state regulation, said Winters, who worked in the U.S. Department of Justice during the Biden administration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He agrees that the Byrd rule means the bill is unlikely to pass if it reaches the U.S. Senate, though Republicans may connect it to a $500 million plan to invest in AI for federal agencies and argue that it’s essential to limit state regulation in order to carry out certain budget provisions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The House bill makes exceptions for states to continue enforcing some laws related to AI, such as laws that enable more use of AI or that are intended to improve government efficiency. It’s reasonable to \u003ca href=\"https://iapp.org/news/a/policy-analysis-us-house-committee-seeks-moratorium-on-state-AI-rules/\">interpret one of the exceptions\u003c/a> to mean states like California could continue enforcing privacy law if this bill passed, said Amba Kak, codirector of The AI Now Institute, a research and equitable AI advocacy organization. But doing so is risky.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We can’t count on the fact that courts will see it this way, especially in the context of an otherwise sweeping moratorium with the clear intention to clamp down on AI-related enforcement,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A House AI task force spent years discussing areas of bipartisan agreement and possible bills to pass to regulate AI, New York Democrat Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said in a hearing about the moratorium, but Congress was unable to pass any of that legislation. During that time, people \u003ca href=\"https://themarkup.org/artificial-intelligence/2025/04/30/kids-should-avoid-ai-companion-bots-under-force-of-law-assessment-says\">committed suicide from their interactions with chatbots\u003c/a> and kids and teens were \u003ca href=\"https://themarkup.org/artificial-intelligence/2024/12/11/1-in-6-congresswomen-targeted-by-ai-generated-sexually-explicit-deepfakes\">harmed by falsely generated sexually exploitative deepfakes\u003c/a>, and so states decided to act to do things like force AI chatbots to protect the private information of people seeking mental health care in Utah and require chatbots include a protocol for when someone expresses the desire to commit self harm in New York.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“All of these protections are protections that Congress refuses to take up, refuses, and so states are taking up this responsibility,” Ocasio-Cortez said. “Let states protect people. A moratorium is a deeply dangerous idea at this moment.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Congresswoman Doris Matsui, a Democrat from the Sacramento area, echoed Ocasio-Cortez at the hearing, saying, “We can’t shoot ourselves in the foot by stopping the good work states have done and will continue to do.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Supporters of the moratorium identify different sorts of harm if it doesn’t pass. A patchwork of state regulations of AI “is the fastest way to secure Chinese dominance of AI,” said Jay Obernolte, a Republican from California and co-chair of the House AI task force. He supports a moratorium, and if Congress fails to act, he said the people it will hurt most are entrepreneurs who can’t afford to follow regulatory regimes passed by different states.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The most destructive thing is if there’s fear out there that every few years as the winds of political fortune shift, the rules governing the use of AI completely change,” he said during the hearing.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Broader pushback against AI regulation\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The proposed moratorium is in line with efforts to prevent regulation of AI by President Donald Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance, who say such regulations will stifle innovation. A \u003ca href=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/removing-barriers-to-american-leadership-in-artificial-intelligence/\">White House plan\u003c/a> to promote growth of the AI industry and likely reduce regulation is due out by this summer. Companies like Amazon, Google, Meta, and big businesses who use AI have lobbied in Sacramento and Washington, D.C., to prevent regulation of the technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Guthrie’s proposal comes a few days after Sen. Ted Cruz, a Republican from Texas, \u003ca href=\"https://punchbowl.news/article/tech/cruz-to-push-ai-regulation/\">pushed for “light touch” AI regulation\u003c/a> to ensure the United States maintains AI supremacy over other nations and to, in Cruz’s words, “prevent needless state over-regulation.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The intent of Guthrie’s bill, Winters believes, is to send a signal to tech companies and open up the door to possible future legislation if the budget reconciliation bill fails to pass. It’s a trend consistent with Senator Cruz’s statement last week and \u003ca href=\"https://www.energy.gov/articles/doe-identifies-16-federal-sites-across-country-data-center-and-ai-infrastructure\">efforts to remove red tape for data center projects on federal land\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’d describe this as … explicitly saying we are supporting the AI companies more than the American people,” he said. “We’re seeing an explicit turn toward a deregulatory state.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Federal lawmakers have steadily increased the number of bills they propose related to AI in recent years, but they have passed relatively few of them into law, according to the \u003ca href=\"https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2025-ai-index-report\">AI Index report\u003c/a>. Out of more 220 bills proposed last year, only four passed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By contrast, state lawmakers passed more than 130 bills to regulate AI last year. California passed \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/09/california-ai-safety-regulations-bills/\">22 bills last year\u003c/a>, more than any other state, and \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/05/ca-eu-ai-regulation/\">attempted to harmonize its rules with the European Union’s AI Act\u003c/a> and other U.S. states. \u003ca href=\"https://csmapnyu.org/impact/policy/the-state-of-state-technology-policy-2024-report\">The 2024 State of State Tech Policy report\u003c/a>, from NYU’s Center for Social Media and Politics, found a 163% increase in tech policy proposals by state lawmakers last year compared to 2023. That trend is driven by one-party control in the vast majority of state houses across the country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The adage that states are the laboratories of democracy is still true, said Scott Brennen, a coauthor of the State of State Tech Policy report, so shutting down their ability to try out different approaches doesn’t seem like a good idea and could undercut the federal government’s ability to make better policy. Since AI is getting integrated into an ever-wider range of tools, Guthrie’s moratorium appears to apply widely, he added, including to social media platforms, ongoing efforts by states to protect children online, and data privacy protections that address automated decision making.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t necessarily think state regulation of AI is always the best course of action, there are definitely areas like consumer data protection where it would be better if the federal government took the lead, but the federal government isn’t taking the lead,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This article was \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2025/05/state-ai-regulation-ban/\">originally published on CalMatters\u003c/a> and was republished under the \u003ca href=\"https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/\">Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives\u003c/a> license.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>For children and teenagers feeling anxious and alienated from their peers and adults, AI companion chatbots can \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1996504/ai-replace-therapist-benefits-risks-unsettling-truths\">mimic the human compassion\u003c/a> they’re longing for.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They’re also available 24/7. However, for parents, the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12038154/kids-talking-ai-companion-chatbots-stanford-researchers-say-thats-bad-idea\">reported\u003c/a> \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034490/ai-companions-seductive-risk-teens-senators-want-more-guardrails\">dangers\u003c/a> of AI companion chatbots are alarming. At least \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25248089-megan-garcia-vs-character-ai/\">one parent has sued\u003c/a>, alleging \u003ca href=\"https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/30/tech/teen-suicide-character-ai-lawsuit\">her 14-year-old son was encouraged to take his own life\u003c/a> last year by a chatbot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Jump straight to: \u003ca href=\"#ExpertadvicefortalkingtokidsaboutAIchatbots\">Expert advice for talking to kids about AI chatbots\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Regulatory solutions have yet to materialize, but the California legislature is considering \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260SB243\">State Bill 243\u003c/a>, introduced by Sen. Steve Padilla, D-San Diego and soon to be heard in the Senate Appropriations committee, that would require chatbot operators to implement critical safeguards to protect users from the addictive, isolating and influential aspects of AI chatbots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a \u003ca href=\"https://ncdoj.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/54-State-Ags-Urge-Study-of-AI-and-harmful-impacts-on-Children.pdf\">2023 letter\u003c/a>, 54 state attorneys general from both political parties urged Congress to act.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We are engaged in a race against time to protect the children of our country from the dangers of AI,” they wrote. “The proverbial walls of the city have already been breached. Now is the time to act. ”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But if you’re a parent or caregiver whose child uses an AI chatbot — or wants to try one — how can you talk to them about the risks? That’s where human professionals can help. KQED reached out to experts, who’ve offered parents five key pieces of guidance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Jump straight to: \u003ca href=\"#Wheretofindhumanledsupportforkids\">Where to find human-led support for kids\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"ExpertadvicefortalkingtokidsaboutAIchatbots\">\u003c/a>Start with listening, rather than telling kids what to do\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>It’s natural for kids to be curious, said Vicki Harrison, Program Director for Stanford University’s Center for Youth Mental Health and Wellbeing, who has two teenagers, ages 13 and 15.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12038155\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-12038155\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/250429-Kids-and-Chatbots-01-KQED-800x645.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"645\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/250429-Kids-and-Chatbots-01-KQED-800x645.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/250429-Kids-and-Chatbots-01-KQED-1020x823.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/250429-Kids-and-Chatbots-01-KQED-160x129.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/250429-Kids-and-Chatbots-01-KQED.jpg 1028w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Younger children may struggle with the distinction between fantasy and reality, tweens may be vulnerable to parasocial attachment, and teens may use social AI companions to avoid the challenges of building and sustaining real relationships. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Common Sense Media and Stanford's Brainstorm Lab for Mental Health Innovation)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Harrison sympathizes with parents whose first inclination is to panic and demand their child delete the app, but adds, don’t do it. “’Cause they’re not going to ever tell you anything again if you react that way.” She encourages parents to approach the conversation with curiosity instead, even though she acknowledges this is easier said than done.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If we’re coming in fearful, they’re going to go into a reactive space, and they’re going to want to defend themselves, because they already feel insecure and self-conscious,” said \u003ca href=\"https://www.healingwithmindfulness.com\">Laurie Cousins\u003c/a>, a certified mindfulness teacher who works with children and families in Los Angeles. She also has two children, both now in college.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Both Harrison and Cousins recommend approaching the conversation about AI companions by bringing up \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12038154/kids-talking-ai-companion-chatbots-stanford-researchers-say-thats-bad-idea\">recent news stories\u003c/a>, because it’s clear to the children that they aren’t personally in trouble.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cousins suggests sharing what you learned and asking open-ended questions. These could include: ‘I was curious because I found out this. Do you know anything about that?’”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Help your kids understand how AI companion chatbots take advantage of human wiring\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>AI models don’t “understand” emotions the way humans do. They recognize and respond to textual cues learned from processing massive amounts of data gleaned from past conversations, interaction with therapists and therapy-focused websites, as well as random advice found online on platforms like Reddit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We all want, but especially the primitive parts of us, want to feel in control,” Cousins said about the way humans respond to companion chatbots, adding, “Our dopamine receptors are firing, and the oxytocin is firing in the way that it feels relational, it feels like a positive reinforcement.”[aside postID=news_12038154 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-1020x680.jpg']Adults with some self-awareness of their own mental health struggles and personal history might be able to course correct when a companion chatbot fails to pick up on signs of depression, anxiety, ADHD and the like — and when it either affirms ideas ungrounded in reality, or encourages risky behavior in real life. Children often don’t have that self-awareness, and may not understand how some of the interactions they’re asking for may be damaging to their mental health.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003ca href=\"https://www.stanfordchildrens.org/en/topic/default?id=understanding-the-teen-brain-1-3051\">Adolescents are in the emotional brain\u003c/a>, right?” Cousins said. “It’s not that they don’t have wisdom. They’re so flooded with emotions and maybe don’t have that risk-averse wisdom yet. Parents say, ‘What were you thinking?’ Well, they weren’t thinking.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Additionally, knowing intellectually that software is designed to emotionally manipulate users into maintaining engagement is not the same thing as those users being able to control their emotional response to it, especially when they’re still developing their sense of identity, connection and belonging.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cousins also suggests sharing with your kids — in an age-appropriate fashion — that companion chatbots are developed by companies with a profit-seeking motive. You could also explain to them that the companies behind the chatbots are likely sharing or selling all sorts of personal data, given that they are not bound by the same \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/phlp/php/resources/health-insurance-portability-and-accountability-act-of-1996-hipaa.html\">privacy laws\u003c/a> as human therapists.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Model the kind of healthy human relationships you want your child to emulate\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Whether it’s speaking kindly to a cashier at a store, joining sports leagues, or attending cultural events, Cousins argues parents need to show their children how to relate to other people. “That’s how we feel safer in community, in society, is when we feel we’re relating with one another.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But that may require adults to address their own habits, given how digitally dependent we’ve all become.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You and I know the ‘before times.’ We know that it’s possible to interact in the world without chatbots, without googling everything,” Harrison said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Children, not so much. Increasingly, it’s difficult for all of us to avoid chatbots of one kind or another. “I’m slightly alarmed, being in Silicon Valley, just how prevalent AI has become. We’re unleashing it into the world regardless of the consequences.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One idea is to encourage kids to make eye contact with others by modeling it yourself. “They need to see that someone is giving them eye contact, that’s meeting them,” Cousins said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Keep an eye on how much time your child spends staring at a screen\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Harrison urges parents to “scaffold” access to digital devices. For instance, rather than handing a smartphone to a child on their tenth or twelfth birthday, “maybe start with a not-so-smart phone, maybe only approve one app at a time.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Harrison adds that parents can create family media plans and agreements and get their kids’ buy-in. “‘OK, here’s a new responsibility. Here’s my expectations of how you’re going to use it. If you want more privilege, you have to agree to use it in a certain kind of way.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11789507\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11789507 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1281\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920-800x534.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920-1020x681.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920-1200x801.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Parents play an active role in managing screen time by setting clear boundaries — like approving apps individually — and involving kids in family media plans to build healthy habits early. \u003ccite>(Chandan Khanna/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Cousins recommends periodically spot-checking the histories on children’s devices — at least, until they figure out how to delete their histories. But she also recommends parents monitor the amount of time children spend staring at a screen, regardless of whether they’re interacting with humans or not.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’ve worked with young people who are gaming all through the night and going to school with two hours of sleep. That’s a dependency, right? That’s an addiction. I’m saying to the parents, ‘Why do you have this in their room?’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She argues responsible parenting means setting boundaries, likening digital dependency to an itch. Scratching the itch doesn’t cure the bite or the rash, but inflames both the itch and the urge to continue scratching it. “You got a big dopamine dump and now you’re chasing it, you know?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In response to a recent report from Common Sense Media and Stanford researchers \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12038154/kids-talking-ai-companion-chatbots-stanford-researchers-say-thats-bad-idea\">raising the alarm\u003c/a> about minors using AI companion chatbots, a CharacterAI spokesperson wrote KQED, “Banning a new technology for teenagers has never been an effective approach — not when it was tried with video games, the internet, or movies containing violence.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That said, the company delivers a \u003ca href=\"https://character.ai/safety/teen-safety\">specialized version\u003c/a> of its large language model to 13–18 year olds. Among other things, this model includes a time-spent notification that notifies children if they have spent an hour on the platform.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"Wheretofindhumanledsupportforkids\">\u003c/a>Seek out additional human resources\u003c/h2>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://allcove.org\">\u003cstrong>allcove\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/strong>A free, welcoming space for youth ages 12–25, developed originally in Australia and now growing across the U.S., including locations in the Bay Area. Think of it as a “one-stop shop” offering mental health support, physical care, peer counseling, and help with substance abuse.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"https://www.commonsensemedia.org\">Common Sense Media\u003cbr>\n\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>The nonprofit provides independent, age-based reviews, ratings, and advice for parents, caregivers, and educators about media and technology for children and teens. It covers movies, TV shows, books, video games, apps, websites, and even TikTok and YouTube channels.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://badassgirls.me\">\u003cstrong>Bad Ass Girls\u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>An empowering mentorship and community program for preteen and teen girls. It’s built to help them explore confidence, connection, and emotional wellness through guided support and real talk.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.goodformedia.org\">\u003cstrong>#GoodforMEdia\u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>This is a youth-led program where teens help other teens make smart, thoughtful choices about their digital lives. It’s like having a mentor who actually understands how tricky social media can be — because they’re living it too.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://ggie.berkeley.edu\">\u003cstrong>Greater Good in Education\u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>A thoughtful collection of research-based articles, tips, and newsletters for parents and educators. Created by the Greater Good Science Center at UC Berkeley, it focuses on emotional well-being, mindfulness, and building empathy in young people.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://solunaapp.com\">\u003cstrong>Soluna \u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>Free for youth in California, this app offers mental health tools, mood tracking, and direct access to counselors. A great option for teens who might not feel ready to talk in person but still need support.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.teenline.org\">\u003cstrong>Teenline\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/strong>Teens everywhere can talk or text with trained teen volunteers. It’s anonymous and especially helpful for teens who feel more comfortable opening up to peers.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.childrenandscreens.org\">\u003cstrong>Children and screens\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\nA national nonprofit based in D.C. that offers an “Ask the Experts” series written with parents in mind — full of clear, science-backed tips.\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>For children and teenagers feeling anxious and alienated from their peers and adults, AI companion chatbots can \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/science/1996504/ai-replace-therapist-benefits-risks-unsettling-truths\">mimic the human compassion\u003c/a> they’re longing for.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They’re also available 24/7. However, for parents, the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12038154/kids-talking-ai-companion-chatbots-stanford-researchers-say-thats-bad-idea\">reported\u003c/a> \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034490/ai-companions-seductive-risk-teens-senators-want-more-guardrails\">dangers\u003c/a> of AI companion chatbots are alarming. At least \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25248089-megan-garcia-vs-character-ai/\">one parent has sued\u003c/a>, alleging \u003ca href=\"https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/30/tech/teen-suicide-character-ai-lawsuit\">her 14-year-old son was encouraged to take his own life\u003c/a> last year by a chatbot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Jump straight to: \u003ca href=\"#ExpertadvicefortalkingtokidsaboutAIchatbots\">Expert advice for talking to kids about AI chatbots\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Regulatory solutions have yet to materialize, but the California legislature is considering \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260SB243\">State Bill 243\u003c/a>, introduced by Sen. Steve Padilla, D-San Diego and soon to be heard in the Senate Appropriations committee, that would require chatbot operators to implement critical safeguards to protect users from the addictive, isolating and influential aspects of AI chatbots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a \u003ca href=\"https://ncdoj.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/54-State-Ags-Urge-Study-of-AI-and-harmful-impacts-on-Children.pdf\">2023 letter\u003c/a>, 54 state attorneys general from both political parties urged Congress to act.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We are engaged in a race against time to protect the children of our country from the dangers of AI,” they wrote. “The proverbial walls of the city have already been breached. Now is the time to act. ”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But if you’re a parent or caregiver whose child uses an AI chatbot — or wants to try one — how can you talk to them about the risks? That’s where human professionals can help. KQED reached out to experts, who’ve offered parents five key pieces of guidance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>Jump straight to: \u003ca href=\"#Wheretofindhumanledsupportforkids\">Where to find human-led support for kids\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"ExpertadvicefortalkingtokidsaboutAIchatbots\">\u003c/a>Start with listening, rather than telling kids what to do\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>It’s natural for kids to be curious, said Vicki Harrison, Program Director for Stanford University’s Center for Youth Mental Health and Wellbeing, who has two teenagers, ages 13 and 15.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12038155\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\" style=\"max-width: 800px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-12038155\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/250429-Kids-and-Chatbots-01-KQED-800x645.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"645\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/250429-Kids-and-Chatbots-01-KQED-800x645.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/250429-Kids-and-Chatbots-01-KQED-1020x823.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/250429-Kids-and-Chatbots-01-KQED-160x129.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/250429-Kids-and-Chatbots-01-KQED.jpg 1028w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 800px) 100vw, 800px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Younger children may struggle with the distinction between fantasy and reality, tweens may be vulnerable to parasocial attachment, and teens may use social AI companions to avoid the challenges of building and sustaining real relationships. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of Common Sense Media and Stanford's Brainstorm Lab for Mental Health Innovation)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Harrison sympathizes with parents whose first inclination is to panic and demand their child delete the app, but adds, don’t do it. “’Cause they’re not going to ever tell you anything again if you react that way.” She encourages parents to approach the conversation with curiosity instead, even though she acknowledges this is easier said than done.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If we’re coming in fearful, they’re going to go into a reactive space, and they’re going to want to defend themselves, because they already feel insecure and self-conscious,” said \u003ca href=\"https://www.healingwithmindfulness.com\">Laurie Cousins\u003c/a>, a certified mindfulness teacher who works with children and families in Los Angeles. She also has two children, both now in college.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Both Harrison and Cousins recommend approaching the conversation about AI companions by bringing up \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12038154/kids-talking-ai-companion-chatbots-stanford-researchers-say-thats-bad-idea\">recent news stories\u003c/a>, because it’s clear to the children that they aren’t personally in trouble.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cousins suggests sharing what you learned and asking open-ended questions. These could include: ‘I was curious because I found out this. Do you know anything about that?’”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Help your kids understand how AI companion chatbots take advantage of human wiring\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>AI models don’t “understand” emotions the way humans do. They recognize and respond to textual cues learned from processing massive amounts of data gleaned from past conversations, interaction with therapists and therapy-focused websites, as well as random advice found online on platforms like Reddit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We all want, but especially the primitive parts of us, want to feel in control,” Cousins said about the way humans respond to companion chatbots, adding, “Our dopamine receptors are firing, and the oxytocin is firing in the way that it feels relational, it feels like a positive reinforcement.”\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Adults with some self-awareness of their own mental health struggles and personal history might be able to course correct when a companion chatbot fails to pick up on signs of depression, anxiety, ADHD and the like — and when it either affirms ideas ungrounded in reality, or encourages risky behavior in real life. Children often don’t have that self-awareness, and may not understand how some of the interactions they’re asking for may be damaging to their mental health.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“\u003ca href=\"https://www.stanfordchildrens.org/en/topic/default?id=understanding-the-teen-brain-1-3051\">Adolescents are in the emotional brain\u003c/a>, right?” Cousins said. “It’s not that they don’t have wisdom. They’re so flooded with emotions and maybe don’t have that risk-averse wisdom yet. Parents say, ‘What were you thinking?’ Well, they weren’t thinking.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Additionally, knowing intellectually that software is designed to emotionally manipulate users into maintaining engagement is not the same thing as those users being able to control their emotional response to it, especially when they’re still developing their sense of identity, connection and belonging.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cousins also suggests sharing with your kids — in an age-appropriate fashion — that companion chatbots are developed by companies with a profit-seeking motive. You could also explain to them that the companies behind the chatbots are likely sharing or selling all sorts of personal data, given that they are not bound by the same \u003ca href=\"https://www.cdc.gov/phlp/php/resources/health-insurance-portability-and-accountability-act-of-1996-hipaa.html\">privacy laws\u003c/a> as human therapists.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Model the kind of healthy human relationships you want your child to emulate\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Whether it’s speaking kindly to a cashier at a store, joining sports leagues, or attending cultural events, Cousins argues parents need to show their children how to relate to other people. “That’s how we feel safer in community, in society, is when we feel we’re relating with one another.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But that may require adults to address their own habits, given how digitally dependent we’ve all become.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You and I know the ‘before times.’ We know that it’s possible to interact in the world without chatbots, without googling everything,” Harrison said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Children, not so much. Increasingly, it’s difficult for all of us to avoid chatbots of one kind or another. “I’m slightly alarmed, being in Silicon Valley, just how prevalent AI has become. We’re unleashing it into the world regardless of the consequences.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One idea is to encourage kids to make eye contact with others by modeling it yourself. “They need to see that someone is giving them eye contact, that’s meeting them,” Cousins said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Keep an eye on how much time your child spends staring at a screen\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Harrison urges parents to “scaffold” access to digital devices. For instance, rather than handing a smartphone to a child on their tenth or twelfth birthday, “maybe start with a not-so-smart phone, maybe only approve one app at a time.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Harrison adds that parents can create family media plans and agreements and get their kids’ buy-in. “‘OK, here’s a new responsibility. Here’s my expectations of how you’re going to use it. If you want more privilege, you have to agree to use it in a certain kind of way.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11789507\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11789507 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1281\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920-800x534.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920-1020x681.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2019/12/cellphone-1920-1200x801.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Parents play an active role in managing screen time by setting clear boundaries — like approving apps individually — and involving kids in family media plans to build healthy habits early. \u003ccite>(Chandan Khanna/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Cousins recommends periodically spot-checking the histories on children’s devices — at least, until they figure out how to delete their histories. But she also recommends parents monitor the amount of time children spend staring at a screen, regardless of whether they’re interacting with humans or not.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’ve worked with young people who are gaming all through the night and going to school with two hours of sleep. That’s a dependency, right? That’s an addiction. I’m saying to the parents, ‘Why do you have this in their room?’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She argues responsible parenting means setting boundaries, likening digital dependency to an itch. Scratching the itch doesn’t cure the bite or the rash, but inflames both the itch and the urge to continue scratching it. “You got a big dopamine dump and now you’re chasing it, you know?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In response to a recent report from Common Sense Media and Stanford researchers \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12038154/kids-talking-ai-companion-chatbots-stanford-researchers-say-thats-bad-idea\">raising the alarm\u003c/a> about minors using AI companion chatbots, a CharacterAI spokesperson wrote KQED, “Banning a new technology for teenagers has never been an effective approach — not when it was tried with video games, the internet, or movies containing violence.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That said, the company delivers a \u003ca href=\"https://character.ai/safety/teen-safety\">specialized version\u003c/a> of its large language model to 13–18 year olds. Among other things, this model includes a time-spent notification that notifies children if they have spent an hour on the platform.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>\u003ca id=\"Wheretofindhumanledsupportforkids\">\u003c/a>Seek out additional human resources\u003c/h2>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://allcove.org\">\u003cstrong>allcove\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/strong>A free, welcoming space for youth ages 12–25, developed originally in Australia and now growing across the U.S., including locations in the Bay Area. Think of it as a “one-stop shop” offering mental health support, physical care, peer counseling, and help with substance abuse.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003cstrong>\u003ca href=\"https://www.commonsensemedia.org\">Common Sense Media\u003cbr>\n\u003c/a>\u003c/strong>The nonprofit provides independent, age-based reviews, ratings, and advice for parents, caregivers, and educators about media and technology for children and teens. It covers movies, TV shows, books, video games, apps, websites, and even TikTok and YouTube channels.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://badassgirls.me\">\u003cstrong>Bad Ass Girls\u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>An empowering mentorship and community program for preteen and teen girls. It’s built to help them explore confidence, connection, and emotional wellness through guided support and real talk.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.goodformedia.org\">\u003cstrong>#GoodforMEdia\u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>This is a youth-led program where teens help other teens make smart, thoughtful choices about their digital lives. It’s like having a mentor who actually understands how tricky social media can be — because they’re living it too.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://ggie.berkeley.edu\">\u003cstrong>Greater Good in Education\u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>A thoughtful collection of research-based articles, tips, and newsletters for parents and educators. Created by the Greater Good Science Center at UC Berkeley, it focuses on emotional well-being, mindfulness, and building empathy in young people.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://solunaapp.com\">\u003cstrong>Soluna \u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>Free for youth in California, this app offers mental health tools, mood tracking, and direct access to counselors. A great option for teens who might not feel ready to talk in person but still need support.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.teenline.org\">\u003cstrong>Teenline\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/strong>Teens everywhere can talk or text with trained teen volunteers. It’s anonymous and especially helpful for teens who feel more comfortable opening up to peers.\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.childrenandscreens.org\">\u003cstrong>Children and screens\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003cbr>\nA national nonprofit based in D.C. that offers an “Ask the Experts” series written with parents in mind — full of clear, science-backed tips.\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>Visa announced Wednesday it is partnering with leading \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/ai\">AI\u003c/a> chatbot developers like Anthropic, Microsoft, OpenAI and Perplexity to connect their AI systems to Visa’s payments network and take online shopping out of consumer hands.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Magical” AI technologies have the potential to “radically transform commerce,” Visa CEO Ryan McInerney said at this week’s Visa Product Drop 2025. Visa is also working with IBM, online payment company Stripe and phone-maker Samsung on the initiative.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Why do consumers need Visa et al. to insert themselves in the process? Trust and safety — at least, according to the company. Because, as it is now, within milliseconds of an attempted purchase, Visa is able to sift through vast amounts of data to assess whether patterns imply there’s fraud or a sale going on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Visa recognizes these patterns through our data. We understand the rhythms, and those rhythms are what enable us to build solutions that deliver better buyer experiences, that grow sales for sellers with less fraud, and less declines and more completed transactions,” McInerney explained.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Leaving aside that last time you spotted fraud on your bill that your credit card issuer and Visa didn’t, there will be kinks to work out, said Dr. Jennifer King, a privacy and data policy fellow at the Stanford Center for Human Centered Artificial Intelligence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s possible the first places where these [AI agents] work are trusted partners. So if I want my Starbucks latte to be ordered for me and ready every morning on my walk to work, I just pick it up. I know what it costs, and I’ll get the receipt from Starbucks eventually through my system. There’s no negotiation there. It’s just straightforward,” King said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With more complex or one-time purchases, it’s less clear whether AI shop bots can guarantee the consumer is getting a desirable deal. That’s because we’re all shopping in what’s called the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12036411/googles-ad-dominance-is-illegal-federal-judge-rules\">ad surveillance economy\u003c/a>, where thousands of companies you’ve never heard of buy and sell all sorts of personal data. That impacts the prices you’re offered through the growing practice of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12028137/california-lawmakers-take-on-predatory-surveillance-pricing\">dynamic pricing\u003c/a>, where retailers sift through all that data to determine the highest price any individual consumer is likely to pay for a product and service.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This ends up being a world potentially where consumers are captured even more than they are now, and are subject to higher prices and potentially deceptive conduct that they aren’t even seeing, because they’re no longer the one making the decision,” King said.[aside postID=news_12038154 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/StanfordStudyAIChatbotsKidsGetty-1020x680.jpg']“There are so many sticky situations you can get into,” added David Harris, a senior policy advisor of the California Initiative for Technology and Democracy. Harris also lectures on AI ethics and social media at UC Berkeley’s Haas School of Business and previously worked as a research manager on the responsible AI team at Meta.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Harris recalled the court case where Air Canada was \u003ca href=\"https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bccrt/doc/2024/2024bccrt149/2024bccrt149.html\">ordered \u003c/a>to pay compensation after its AI chatbot misled a customer into believing he could get the difference between a full-price ticket and a discounted bereavement fare refunded. The airline tried to argue the bot was a “separate legal entity” that was “responsible for its own actions.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Given the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12037518/newsom-signals-to-california-privacy-watchdog-that-hes-on-big-techs-side-on-ai-regulation\">paucity of regulatory oversight\u003c/a> and the slow and uneven response of courts, what hope do any of us have in this brave new world rolling out in the near future? Competition, said Dr. King.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“All of this is going to require trust. If you can’t trust these [AI] agents to operate on your behalf, people aren’t going to adopt them,” Dr. King said. “There’s been such a trust deficit in online services. This, to my mind, ups the ante. If people are finding out that they’re getting ripped off left and right by using these tools, they’re not going to use them.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to Visa, its pilot projects began this week, ahead of more widespread usage expected next year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Visa announced Wednesday it is partnering with leading \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/ai\">AI\u003c/a> chatbot developers like Anthropic, Microsoft, OpenAI and Perplexity to connect their AI systems to Visa’s payments network and take online shopping out of consumer hands.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Magical” AI technologies have the potential to “radically transform commerce,” Visa CEO Ryan McInerney said at this week’s Visa Product Drop 2025. Visa is also working with IBM, online payment company Stripe and phone-maker Samsung on the initiative.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Why do consumers need Visa et al. to insert themselves in the process? Trust and safety — at least, according to the company. Because, as it is now, within milliseconds of an attempted purchase, Visa is able to sift through vast amounts of data to assess whether patterns imply there’s fraud or a sale going on.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Visa recognizes these patterns through our data. We understand the rhythms, and those rhythms are what enable us to build solutions that deliver better buyer experiences, that grow sales for sellers with less fraud, and less declines and more completed transactions,” McInerney explained.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Leaving aside that last time you spotted fraud on your bill that your credit card issuer and Visa didn’t, there will be kinks to work out, said Dr. Jennifer King, a privacy and data policy fellow at the Stanford Center for Human Centered Artificial Intelligence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s possible the first places where these [AI agents] work are trusted partners. So if I want my Starbucks latte to be ordered for me and ready every morning on my walk to work, I just pick it up. I know what it costs, and I’ll get the receipt from Starbucks eventually through my system. There’s no negotiation there. It’s just straightforward,” King said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With more complex or one-time purchases, it’s less clear whether AI shop bots can guarantee the consumer is getting a desirable deal. That’s because we’re all shopping in what’s called the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12036411/googles-ad-dominance-is-illegal-federal-judge-rules\">ad surveillance economy\u003c/a>, where thousands of companies you’ve never heard of buy and sell all sorts of personal data. That impacts the prices you’re offered through the growing practice of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12028137/california-lawmakers-take-on-predatory-surveillance-pricing\">dynamic pricing\u003c/a>, where retailers sift through all that data to determine the highest price any individual consumer is likely to pay for a product and service.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This ends up being a world potentially where consumers are captured even more than they are now, and are subject to higher prices and potentially deceptive conduct that they aren’t even seeing, because they’re no longer the one making the decision,” King said.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“There are so many sticky situations you can get into,” added David Harris, a senior policy advisor of the California Initiative for Technology and Democracy. Harris also lectures on AI ethics and social media at UC Berkeley’s Haas School of Business and previously worked as a research manager on the responsible AI team at Meta.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Harris recalled the court case where Air Canada was \u003ca href=\"https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bccrt/doc/2024/2024bccrt149/2024bccrt149.html\">ordered \u003c/a>to pay compensation after its AI chatbot misled a customer into believing he could get the difference between a full-price ticket and a discounted bereavement fare refunded. The airline tried to argue the bot was a “separate legal entity” that was “responsible for its own actions.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Given the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12037518/newsom-signals-to-california-privacy-watchdog-that-hes-on-big-techs-side-on-ai-regulation\">paucity of regulatory oversight\u003c/a> and the slow and uneven response of courts, what hope do any of us have in this brave new world rolling out in the near future? Competition, said Dr. King.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“All of this is going to require trust. If you can’t trust these [AI] agents to operate on your behalf, people aren’t going to adopt them,” Dr. King said. “There’s been such a trust deficit in online services. This, to my mind, ups the ante. If people are finding out that they’re getting ripped off left and right by using these tools, they’re not going to use them.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to Visa, its pilot projects began this week, ahead of more widespread usage expected next year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\u003cp>Imagine you’re a lonely 14-year-old. Maybe you want to talk about sex. Maybe you want to complain about school or ask about the voices in your head. Whatever the case, it’s appealing to imagine a context in which no adult shuts down your curiosity — or worse, makes you feel awkward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>All of this explains the popularity of online companions to children and teens. The chatbots mimic human social interaction in a more sophisticated fashion than digital assistants like \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/openai\">OpenAI\u003c/a>’s ChatGPT or Amazon’s Alexa. Unlike those assistants, chatbots are much more likely to veer into socially controversial and even illegal territory.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Companion chatbot users can personalize their experience, like opting for characters from gaming, anime and pop culture. For instance, a 14-year-old boy from Florida \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034490/ai-companions-seductive-risk-teens-senators-want-more-guardrails\">took his own life last year\u003c/a> after growing emotionally close to a chatbot that mimicked the “Game of Thrones” character \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbuBfizSnPk\">Daenerys Targaryen\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The characters play along with the idea that they’re almost human, talking about eating meals or meeting up in real life, actively encouraging users to stay engaged.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What could go wrong with minors using this technology? Plenty, according to researchers from Stanford School of Medicine’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.stanfordbrainstorm.com\">Brainstorm Lab for Mental Health Innovation\u003c/a>, who collaborated with \u003ca href=\"https://www.commonsensemedia.org/ai-ratings/social-ai-companions?gate=riskassessment\">Common Sense Media\u003c/a> to set up test accounts for 14-year-olds, to evaluate how software from three different chatbot developers interacts with young people struggling to learn impulse control and social skills. They report that it took minimal prompting to get Character.AI, Nomi and Replika chatbots to engage in behavior harmful to human mental health.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11146714\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11146714 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/10/11146713-thumb.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/10/11146713-thumb.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/10/11146713-thumb-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/10/11146713-thumb-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/10/11146713-thumb-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/10/11146713-thumb-1180x787.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/10/11146713-thumb-960x640.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/10/11146713-thumb-240x160.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/10/11146713-thumb-375x250.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/10/11146713-thumb-520x347.jpg 520w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Researchers from Stanford School of Medicine’s Brainstorm Lab for Mental Health Innovation, in collaboration with Common Sense Media, tested how chatbots interact with teens, finding that AI companions from Character.AI, Nomi and Replika quickly engaged in behavior potentially harmful to youth mental health — with major platforms like Snapchat and Meta also expanding their AI offerings for young users. \u003ccite>(Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We did not have to do backflips to get the models to perform in the way that they did. The AI ‘friends’ will actively participate in sexual conversations and role play on any topic, with graphic details,” said Robbie Torney, Common Sense Media’s senior director for AI programs and project lead on what the nonprofit organization calls a risk assessment of the AI companion chatbot sector.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Character.AI, Nomi and Replika are not the only companies developing these products. Snapchat offers AI digital companions who are willing to \u003ca href=\"https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/03/14/snapchat-myai/\">talk to teens\u003c/a>. \u003ca href=\"https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/meta-ai-chatbots-sex-a25311bf\">Meta\u003c/a> is racing to catch up across Instagram, Facebook and WhatsApp.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There are countless other, similar social AI companions out there, with more being created every day,” the report states. “So, while we use examples from the specific products we tested to illustrate the potential harms of these tools, the research and evaluation we conducted for this risk assessment covers social AI companions more broadly.”[aside postID=science_1996504 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2025/03/IMG_0962-1020x765.jpg']The researchers argue that one of the most troubling features of companion chatbots is the way they are hardwired to be agreeable, engaging with a population of humans hardwired to be vulnerable. According to the \u003ca href=\"https://www.nami.org/about-mental-illness/mental-health-conditions/\">National Alliance on Mental Illness\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15939837\">50\u003c/a> percent of all mental disorders, like cutting, suicidal ideation and schizophrenia, begin by age 14, 75 percent by age 24.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The chatbots “blur the line between fantasy and reality, at the exact time when adolescents are developing critical skills like emotional regulation, identity formation, and healthy relational attachment,” said Dr. Nina Vasan, a professor of psychiatry at Stanford University. “Instead of encouraging healthy real-world relationships, these AI friends pull users even deeper into artificial ones.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Companion chatbots, the researchers warn, are not prepared to replace parents or professionals in identifying the first signs of something that requires speedy and effective treatment. “In our testing, when a user showed signs of serious mental illness and suggested a dangerous action, the AI did not intervene. In fact, it encouraged dangerous behavior,” Vasan said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The AI companions reinforced users’ delusions, validating fears of being followed and offering advice on decoding imaginary messages, researchers said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“AI companions don’t understand the real consequences of bad advice. They readily, in our testing, supported teens in making potentially harmful decisions like dropping out of school, ignoring parents, moving out without planning,” Torney added.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12036125\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12036125\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/MetaGetty2.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/MetaGetty2.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/MetaGetty2-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/MetaGetty2-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/MetaGetty2-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/MetaGetty2-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/MetaGetty2-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Meta, Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, Messenger and Threads logos are screened on a mobile phone on Jan. 25, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beata Zawrzel/NurPhoto via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The timing of this release is no accident. Common Sense Media supports two state bills this legislative session that would ban or restrict interactions between AI companion bots and minors. The bills are among several state-level efforts by consumer advocates and lawmakers to regulate online kids’ safety after the federal Kids Online Safety Act died last fall.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billCompareClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260AB1064&showamends=false\">AB 1064\u003c/a> by Rebecca Bauer-Kahan, D-Orinda, would ban access to AI companions for Californians age 16 and under, as well as create a statewide standards board to assess and regulate AI tools used by children. The bill passed the Assembly Judiciary Committee on Tuesday. It’s headed next to the Assembly Appropriations Committee.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billCompareClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260SB243&showamends=false\">SB 243\u003c/a> by Sen. Steve Padilla, D-San Diego, would require the makers of AI companion bots to limit addictive design features, put in protocols in place for handling discussions of suicide or self-harm and undergo regular compliance audits. The bill goes before the State Judiciary Committee on Wednesday.[aside postID=news_12034490 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/PadillaMentalHealthCaucus-1020x680.jpg']“We have been very transparent about the work we are doing to prioritize teen safety on our platform,” a spokesperson for Character.AI, which makes its products available to customers as young as 13 in the United States, said in a statement. “First and foremost, last year, we launched a separate version of our Large Language Model for under-18 users.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That model is designed to further reduce the likelihood of users encountering, or prompting the model to return, sensitive or suggestive content,” the spokesperson continued. “We have updated prominent disclaimers to make it even clearer that the Character is not a real person and should not be relied on as fact or advice.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alex Cardinell, the founder and CEO of Nomi, said the company agrees that “children should not use Nomi or any other conversational AI app.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Nomi is an adult-only app, and it is strictly against our terms of service for anyone under 18 to use Nomi,” Cardinell said in an email. “Accordingly, we support stronger age gating so long as those mechanisms fully maintain user privacy and anonymity.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A Replika spokesperson said the company’s tool “has always been intended solely for adults aged 18 and over.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We have strict protocols in place to prevent underage access. However, we are aware that some individuals attempt to bypass these safeguards by submitting false information,” the spokesperson wrote. “We take this issue seriously and are actively exploring new methods to strengthen our protections. This includes ongoing collaboration with regulators and academic institutions to better understand user behavior and continuously improve safety measures.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The risk assessment authors did acknowledge that not all AI models are created equal in terms of functionality or guardrails.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Vasan said she interacted with ChatGPT last summer, prompting it to respond to signs of schizophrenia.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was actually very gentle and compassionate about explaining what psychosis was, how the user should try to get help contacting a mental health professional,” Vasan said. “I was very pleasantly surprised to see it was really what one would expect a doctor or someone trained in mental health to say.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Imagine you’re a lonely 14-year-old. Maybe you want to talk about sex. Maybe you want to complain about school or ask about the voices in your head. Whatever the case, it’s appealing to imagine a context in which no adult shuts down your curiosity — or worse, makes you feel awkward.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>All of this explains the popularity of online companions to children and teens. The chatbots mimic human social interaction in a more sophisticated fashion than digital assistants like \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/openai\">OpenAI\u003c/a>’s ChatGPT or Amazon’s Alexa. Unlike those assistants, chatbots are much more likely to veer into socially controversial and even illegal territory.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Companion chatbot users can personalize their experience, like opting for characters from gaming, anime and pop culture. For instance, a 14-year-old boy from Florida \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034490/ai-companions-seductive-risk-teens-senators-want-more-guardrails\">took his own life last year\u003c/a> after growing emotionally close to a chatbot that mimicked the “Game of Thrones” character \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbuBfizSnPk\">Daenerys Targaryen\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The characters play along with the idea that they’re almost human, talking about eating meals or meeting up in real life, actively encouraging users to stay engaged.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What could go wrong with minors using this technology? Plenty, according to researchers from Stanford School of Medicine’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.stanfordbrainstorm.com\">Brainstorm Lab for Mental Health Innovation\u003c/a>, who collaborated with \u003ca href=\"https://www.commonsensemedia.org/ai-ratings/social-ai-companions?gate=riskassessment\">Common Sense Media\u003c/a> to set up test accounts for 14-year-olds, to evaluate how software from three different chatbot developers interacts with young people struggling to learn impulse control and social skills. They report that it took minimal prompting to get Character.AI, Nomi and Replika chatbots to engage in behavior harmful to human mental health.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11146714\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-11146714 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/10/11146713-thumb.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/10/11146713-thumb.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/10/11146713-thumb-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/10/11146713-thumb-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/10/11146713-thumb-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/10/11146713-thumb-1180x787.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/10/11146713-thumb-960x640.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/10/11146713-thumb-240x160.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/10/11146713-thumb-375x250.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/10/11146713-thumb-520x347.jpg 520w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Researchers from Stanford School of Medicine’s Brainstorm Lab for Mental Health Innovation, in collaboration with Common Sense Media, tested how chatbots interact with teens, finding that AI companions from Character.AI, Nomi and Replika quickly engaged in behavior potentially harmful to youth mental health — with major platforms like Snapchat and Meta also expanding their AI offerings for young users. \u003ccite>(Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We did not have to do backflips to get the models to perform in the way that they did. The AI ‘friends’ will actively participate in sexual conversations and role play on any topic, with graphic details,” said Robbie Torney, Common Sense Media’s senior director for AI programs and project lead on what the nonprofit organization calls a risk assessment of the AI companion chatbot sector.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Character.AI, Nomi and Replika are not the only companies developing these products. Snapchat offers AI digital companions who are willing to \u003ca href=\"https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/03/14/snapchat-myai/\">talk to teens\u003c/a>. \u003ca href=\"https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/meta-ai-chatbots-sex-a25311bf\">Meta\u003c/a> is racing to catch up across Instagram, Facebook and WhatsApp.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There are countless other, similar social AI companions out there, with more being created every day,” the report states. “So, while we use examples from the specific products we tested to illustrate the potential harms of these tools, the research and evaluation we conducted for this risk assessment covers social AI companions more broadly.”\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The researchers argue that one of the most troubling features of companion chatbots is the way they are hardwired to be agreeable, engaging with a population of humans hardwired to be vulnerable. According to the \u003ca href=\"https://www.nami.org/about-mental-illness/mental-health-conditions/\">National Alliance on Mental Illness\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15939837\">50\u003c/a> percent of all mental disorders, like cutting, suicidal ideation and schizophrenia, begin by age 14, 75 percent by age 24.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The chatbots “blur the line between fantasy and reality, at the exact time when adolescents are developing critical skills like emotional regulation, identity formation, and healthy relational attachment,” said Dr. Nina Vasan, a professor of psychiatry at Stanford University. “Instead of encouraging healthy real-world relationships, these AI friends pull users even deeper into artificial ones.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Companion chatbots, the researchers warn, are not prepared to replace parents or professionals in identifying the first signs of something that requires speedy and effective treatment. “In our testing, when a user showed signs of serious mental illness and suggested a dangerous action, the AI did not intervene. In fact, it encouraged dangerous behavior,” Vasan said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The AI companions reinforced users’ delusions, validating fears of being followed and offering advice on decoding imaginary messages, researchers said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“AI companions don’t understand the real consequences of bad advice. They readily, in our testing, supported teens in making potentially harmful decisions like dropping out of school, ignoring parents, moving out without planning,” Torney added.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12036125\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12036125\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/MetaGetty2.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/MetaGetty2.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/MetaGetty2-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/MetaGetty2-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/MetaGetty2-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/MetaGetty2-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/MetaGetty2-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Meta, Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, Messenger and Threads logos are screened on a mobile phone on Jan. 25, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beata Zawrzel/NurPhoto via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The timing of this release is no accident. Common Sense Media supports two state bills this legislative session that would ban or restrict interactions between AI companion bots and minors. The bills are among several state-level efforts by consumer advocates and lawmakers to regulate online kids’ safety after the federal Kids Online Safety Act died last fall.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billCompareClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260AB1064&showamends=false\">AB 1064\u003c/a> by Rebecca Bauer-Kahan, D-Orinda, would ban access to AI companions for Californians age 16 and under, as well as create a statewide standards board to assess and regulate AI tools used by children. The bill passed the Assembly Judiciary Committee on Tuesday. It’s headed next to the Assembly Appropriations Committee.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billCompareClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260SB243&showamends=false\">SB 243\u003c/a> by Sen. Steve Padilla, D-San Diego, would require the makers of AI companion bots to limit addictive design features, put in protocols in place for handling discussions of suicide or self-harm and undergo regular compliance audits. The bill goes before the State Judiciary Committee on Wednesday.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“We have been very transparent about the work we are doing to prioritize teen safety on our platform,” a spokesperson for Character.AI, which makes its products available to customers as young as 13 in the United States, said in a statement. “First and foremost, last year, we launched a separate version of our Large Language Model for under-18 users.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That model is designed to further reduce the likelihood of users encountering, or prompting the model to return, sensitive or suggestive content,” the spokesperson continued. “We have updated prominent disclaimers to make it even clearer that the Character is not a real person and should not be relied on as fact or advice.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Alex Cardinell, the founder and CEO of Nomi, said the company agrees that “children should not use Nomi or any other conversational AI app.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Nomi is an adult-only app, and it is strictly against our terms of service for anyone under 18 to use Nomi,” Cardinell said in an email. “Accordingly, we support stronger age gating so long as those mechanisms fully maintain user privacy and anonymity.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A Replika spokesperson said the company’s tool “has always been intended solely for adults aged 18 and over.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We have strict protocols in place to prevent underage access. However, we are aware that some individuals attempt to bypass these safeguards by submitting false information,” the spokesperson wrote. “We take this issue seriously and are actively exploring new methods to strengthen our protections. This includes ongoing collaboration with regulators and academic institutions to better understand user behavior and continuously improve safety measures.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The risk assessment authors did acknowledge that not all AI models are created equal in terms of functionality or guardrails.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Vasan said she interacted with ChatGPT last summer, prompting it to respond to signs of schizophrenia.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was actually very gentle and compassionate about explaining what psychosis was, how the user should try to get help contacting a mental health professional,” Vasan said. “I was very pleasantly surprised to see it was really what one would expect a doctor or someone trained in mental health to say.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>Speaking in Los Angeles on Tuesday, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/gavin-newsom\">Gov. Gavin Newsom\u003c/a> said a father came up to him during halftime at their children’s basketball game over the weekend and asked him, “Wouldn’t it be good if the blue states would come together and do a DOGE?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The father was referring to the Trump administration’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12038026/san-francisco-santa-clara-counties-sue-trump-over-mass-doge-led-firings\">Department of Government Efficiency\u003c/a>, effectively led by tech billionaire Elon Musk. Newsom said that as he tried to explain that DOGE is not the only example of how to streamline government, nor the first, the man’s eyes glazed over.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He wants to see the chainsaw,” Newsom said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In Tuesday’s news conference at the L.A. offices of consulting company Accenture, Newsom announced that the state has entered into three new agreements meant to boost the efficiency of government services — not by mass layoffs but by making use of generative artificial intelligence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re DOGE, but better … because we’ve been doing it \u003cem>with \u003c/em>people, not \u003cem>to \u003c/em>people,” Newsom said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Two of the agreements aim to improve the Department of Transportation’s ability to identify and prevent traffic bottlenecks, accidents and near-misses: one with Accenture to use Azure OpenAI, developed by Microsoft, and the other with Deloitte Consulting to use Google’s Gemini GenAI.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the third partnership, Department of Tax and Fee Administration officials will use generative AI to build on a pilot project carried out over the last 10 months by SymSoft Solutions, using Anthropic’s Claude, to reduce the time it takes to handle an average customer inquiry.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom said he’s rolling out generative AI projects with multiple corporate partners across eight state departments, at a scale he said has yet to be seen anywhere else in the country. The latest projects build on Newsom’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.gov.ca.gov/2024/09/05/governor-newsom-seeks-to-harness-the-power-of-genai-to-address-homelessness-other-challenges/\">2023 executive order\u003c/a> directing state agencies to use generative AI technologies to improve state services and help solve intractable issues.[aside postID=news_12037518 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/GettyImages-2159615518-1020x680.jpg']California Transportation Secretary Toks Omishakin said state agencies are committed to delivering on the expectation of better customer service, pointing to the Department of Motor Vehicles as an example.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Six years ago, there were only a dozen transactions that you could do online. Only 12. Today, there are 50,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California government’s sclerotic relationship with IT has been the subject of many press inquiries and government reports over the decades. But ethics watchdogs warn generative AI is not necessarily a quick fix, nor an inexpensive one, given that corporate consultants are handling the rollout.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“So much depends on which contexts and how genAI will be used,” wrote Irina Raicu, director of the Internet Ethics program at the Markkula Center for Applied Ethics at Santa Clara University. She argued the state government risks adding to the “pervasive AI hype that’s now endangering, among other things, the technology itself.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Raicu suggested every state agency should ask itself a set of tough questions ahead of every pilot program: “Why should we integrate generative AI into our processes? Is this the type of AI best suited to the problems that we are hoping to address? Do we have evidence that the AI tool we hope to use works as intended? If it does, is this the most cost-effective way to respond? Have we considered the risks that come with generative AI (and associated issues like its environmental impact), not just the benefits that it would bring?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While Newsom was talking, the Legislative Analyst’s Office published a \u003ca href=\"https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/5034\">preliminary assessment\u003c/a> of his generative AI initiative to overhaul the state’s IT project approval process. Upshot: “premature,” without enough information to assess whether the new process would be an improvement on the old.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Speaking in Los Angeles on Tuesday, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/gavin-newsom\">Gov. Gavin Newsom\u003c/a> said a father came up to him during halftime at their children’s basketball game over the weekend and asked him, “Wouldn’t it be good if the blue states would come together and do a DOGE?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The father was referring to the Trump administration’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12038026/san-francisco-santa-clara-counties-sue-trump-over-mass-doge-led-firings\">Department of Government Efficiency\u003c/a>, effectively led by tech billionaire Elon Musk. Newsom said that as he tried to explain that DOGE is not the only example of how to streamline government, nor the first, the man’s eyes glazed over.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He wants to see the chainsaw,” Newsom said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In Tuesday’s news conference at the L.A. offices of consulting company Accenture, Newsom announced that the state has entered into three new agreements meant to boost the efficiency of government services — not by mass layoffs but by making use of generative artificial intelligence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re DOGE, but better … because we’ve been doing it \u003cem>with \u003c/em>people, not \u003cem>to \u003c/em>people,” Newsom said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Two of the agreements aim to improve the Department of Transportation’s ability to identify and prevent traffic bottlenecks, accidents and near-misses: one with Accenture to use Azure OpenAI, developed by Microsoft, and the other with Deloitte Consulting to use Google’s Gemini GenAI.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the third partnership, Department of Tax and Fee Administration officials will use generative AI to build on a pilot project carried out over the last 10 months by SymSoft Solutions, using Anthropic’s Claude, to reduce the time it takes to handle an average customer inquiry.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom said he’s rolling out generative AI projects with multiple corporate partners across eight state departments, at a scale he said has yet to be seen anywhere else in the country. The latest projects build on Newsom’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.gov.ca.gov/2024/09/05/governor-newsom-seeks-to-harness-the-power-of-genai-to-address-homelessness-other-challenges/\">2023 executive order\u003c/a> directing state agencies to use generative AI technologies to improve state services and help solve intractable issues.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>California Transportation Secretary Toks Omishakin said state agencies are committed to delivering on the expectation of better customer service, pointing to the Department of Motor Vehicles as an example.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Six years ago, there were only a dozen transactions that you could do online. Only 12. Today, there are 50,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California government’s sclerotic relationship with IT has been the subject of many press inquiries and government reports over the decades. But ethics watchdogs warn generative AI is not necessarily a quick fix, nor an inexpensive one, given that corporate consultants are handling the rollout.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“So much depends on which contexts and how genAI will be used,” wrote Irina Raicu, director of the Internet Ethics program at the Markkula Center for Applied Ethics at Santa Clara University. She argued the state government risks adding to the “pervasive AI hype that’s now endangering, among other things, the technology itself.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Raicu suggested every state agency should ask itself a set of tough questions ahead of every pilot program: “Why should we integrate generative AI into our processes? Is this the type of AI best suited to the problems that we are hoping to address? Do we have evidence that the AI tool we hope to use works as intended? If it does, is this the most cost-effective way to respond? Have we considered the risks that come with generative AI (and associated issues like its environmental impact), not just the benefits that it would bring?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While Newsom was talking, the Legislative Analyst’s Office published a \u003ca href=\"https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/5034\">preliminary assessment\u003c/a> of his generative AI initiative to overhaul the state’s IT project approval process. Upshot: “premature,” without enough information to assess whether the new process would be an improvement on the old.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "newsom-signals-to-california-privacy-watchdog-that-hes-on-big-techs-side-on-ai-regulation",
"title": "Newsom Signals to California Privacy Watchdog That He’s on Big Tech’s Side on AI Regulation",
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"content": "\u003cp>Gov. Gavin Newsom is urging the California Privacy Protection Agency to regulate the state’s AI sector with a light touch.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom, in an unusual letter to the California Privacy Protection Agency’s board, urged the regulators to dial back \u003ca href=\"https://cppa.ca.gov/regulations/pdf/ccpa_updates_cyber_risk_admt_ins_text.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">proposed regulations (PDF)\u003c/a> on automated decision-making technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As my office has relayed to Agency staff over the last year, enacting these regulations could create significant unintended consequences and impose substantial costs,” the governor wrote in a letter \u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/CPPA-Letter.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">obtained by KQED (PDF)\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He went on to write, “The Agency can fulfill its obligations to issue the regulations called for by \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11844163/proposition-24-californians-say-yes-to-expanding-on-nations-toughest-data-privacy-law\">Proposition 24\u003c/a> without venturing into areas beyond its mandate. Thank you for working in partnership with my Administration and the Legislature to balance privacy protection with clear and implementable guidelines that allow regulated entities to innovate responsibly, creating a fairer and more trustworthy digital environment for California consumers.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"x_MsoNormal\">“The CPPA Board and staff continue to refine the draft regulations and will further discuss them at the May 1st board meeting,” Tom Kemp, CPPA’s executive director, wrote in response. He added, “We are grateful for the Governor’s Office’s continued engagement around this important issue.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s unfortunate to see a lot of the industry talking points coming out of a letter from the governor,” said Jake Snow, a technology and civil liberties attorney at the ACLU of Northern California. “The agency has a really broad authority to put in place new rules and the regulations that they’ve written are simple rules that encourage transparency and trust in AI for people in California.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There’s really nothing like the California Privacy Protection Agency anywhere in the United States. Created in 2020, the agency is just beginning to find its voice, and that means “increasingly, it is attracting lobbying attention from industry,” said Jonathan Mehta Stein, chair of the \u003ca href=\"https://cited.tech\">California Initiative for Technology and Democracy\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=news_12036593 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/GoogleGetty-1020x750.jpg']\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://cppa.ca.gov/regulations/pdf/ccpa_updates_cyber_risk_admt_ins_text.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">draft regulations\u003c/a> would require businesses to assess and report privacy risks, perform annual cybersecurity audits, and give consumers more control over how automated systems (like AI and profiling tools) use their personal data. Public comment for the draft regulations closed on February 19. The board discussed those comments at the April board meeting, and they’ll discuss again on May 1.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The broad scope of the conversation brought out a fulsome array of interested parties, including not just the governor, but industry lobbyists and consumer advocates as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“AI, social media and data privacy are fundamentally intertwined, and if we are going to protect consumers and our democracy, from these combined, interwoven threats, you have to be talking about all of them all at once,” Stein said. “Right now, social media and AI are almost totally unregulated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“California has made some good starts on data privacy in some recent bills in recent years, but there is almost no industry I can think of that has an impact on our lives so enormous, and sits under a regulatory regime so light and so minimal.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom has a reputation in Sacramento for lending a friendly ear to industry concerns. He has killed a couple of the most controversial AI bills, like one that would have required large-scale AI developers to submit their \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12007087/california-blinks-governor-newsom-vetoes-ai-bill-aimed-at-catastrophic-harms\">safety plans\u003c/a> to the state attorney general, and two that would have forced tech platforms to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12001227/newsom-strikes-deal-with-google-and-openai-to-support-california-newsrooms\">share ad revenues with news\u003c/a> organizations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, Newsom has also signed many bills that consumer advocates like, addressing everything from online privacy to critical infrastructure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At a board meeting \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvRonzmjUgY\">three weeks ago\u003c/a>, CPPA Board member Alastair Mactaggart worried that moving forward aggressively could trigger industry lawsuits designed to bury the agency’s small staff in paperwork.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Or Silicon Valley lobbyists might appeal to President Donald Trump and the Republican-controlled Congress to preempt California’s privacy protections with weaker federal rules. However, it’s not clear how friendly that audience would be, given the federal government’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/rachael-myrow\">continued aggressive legal assaults\u003c/a> against Google and Meta.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Rules around artificial intelligence are really a part of privacy law, because they govern the control that people should have over the use of information about them, and the use of that information that affects people’s lives,” said Snow, urging the board to move forward on “common sense restrictions on this technology.” What defines “common sense,” however, is a matter of continued debate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The CPPA board has a November deadline to finalize the rules.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Gov. Gavin Newsom is urging the California Privacy Protection Agency to regulate the state’s AI sector with a light touch.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom, in an unusual letter to the California Privacy Protection Agency’s board, urged the regulators to dial back \u003ca href=\"https://cppa.ca.gov/regulations/pdf/ccpa_updates_cyber_risk_admt_ins_text.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">proposed regulations (PDF)\u003c/a> on automated decision-making technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As my office has relayed to Agency staff over the last year, enacting these regulations could create significant unintended consequences and impose substantial costs,” the governor wrote in a letter \u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/CPPA-Letter.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">obtained by KQED (PDF)\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He went on to write, “The Agency can fulfill its obligations to issue the regulations called for by \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11844163/proposition-24-californians-say-yes-to-expanding-on-nations-toughest-data-privacy-law\">Proposition 24\u003c/a> without venturing into areas beyond its mandate. Thank you for working in partnership with my Administration and the Legislature to balance privacy protection with clear and implementable guidelines that allow regulated entities to innovate responsibly, creating a fairer and more trustworthy digital environment for California consumers.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp class=\"x_MsoNormal\">“The CPPA Board and staff continue to refine the draft regulations and will further discuss them at the May 1st board meeting,” Tom Kemp, CPPA’s executive director, wrote in response. He added, “We are grateful for the Governor’s Office’s continued engagement around this important issue.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s unfortunate to see a lot of the industry talking points coming out of a letter from the governor,” said Jake Snow, a technology and civil liberties attorney at the ACLU of Northern California. “The agency has a really broad authority to put in place new rules and the regulations that they’ve written are simple rules that encourage transparency and trust in AI for people in California.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There’s really nothing like the California Privacy Protection Agency anywhere in the United States. Created in 2020, the agency is just beginning to find its voice, and that means “increasingly, it is attracting lobbying attention from industry,” said Jonathan Mehta Stein, chair of the \u003ca href=\"https://cited.tech\">California Initiative for Technology and Democracy\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://cppa.ca.gov/regulations/pdf/ccpa_updates_cyber_risk_admt_ins_text.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">draft regulations\u003c/a> would require businesses to assess and report privacy risks, perform annual cybersecurity audits, and give consumers more control over how automated systems (like AI and profiling tools) use their personal data. Public comment for the draft regulations closed on February 19. The board discussed those comments at the April board meeting, and they’ll discuss again on May 1.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The broad scope of the conversation brought out a fulsome array of interested parties, including not just the governor, but industry lobbyists and consumer advocates as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“AI, social media and data privacy are fundamentally intertwined, and if we are going to protect consumers and our democracy, from these combined, interwoven threats, you have to be talking about all of them all at once,” Stein said. “Right now, social media and AI are almost totally unregulated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“California has made some good starts on data privacy in some recent bills in recent years, but there is almost no industry I can think of that has an impact on our lives so enormous, and sits under a regulatory regime so light and so minimal.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom has a reputation in Sacramento for lending a friendly ear to industry concerns. He has killed a couple of the most controversial AI bills, like one that would have required large-scale AI developers to submit their \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12007087/california-blinks-governor-newsom-vetoes-ai-bill-aimed-at-catastrophic-harms\">safety plans\u003c/a> to the state attorney general, and two that would have forced tech platforms to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12001227/newsom-strikes-deal-with-google-and-openai-to-support-california-newsrooms\">share ad revenues with news\u003c/a> organizations.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, Newsom has also signed many bills that consumer advocates like, addressing everything from online privacy to critical infrastructure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At a board meeting \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvRonzmjUgY\">three weeks ago\u003c/a>, CPPA Board member Alastair Mactaggart worried that moving forward aggressively could trigger industry lawsuits designed to bury the agency’s small staff in paperwork.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Or Silicon Valley lobbyists might appeal to President Donald Trump and the Republican-controlled Congress to preempt California’s privacy protections with weaker federal rules. However, it’s not clear how friendly that audience would be, given the federal government’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/rachael-myrow\">continued aggressive legal assaults\u003c/a> against Google and Meta.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Rules around artificial intelligence are really a part of privacy law, because they govern the control that people should have over the use of information about them, and the use of that information that affects people’s lives,” said Snow, urging the board to move forward on “common sense restrictions on this technology.” What defines “common sense,” however, is a matter of continued debate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The CPPA board has a November deadline to finalize the rules.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\u003cp>It’s no secret that artificial intelligence developers train their models on books, music, movies and other copyrighted materials without obtaining consent or \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11958785/how-silicon-valley-ate-hollywood\">providing credit and compensation\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Just last week,\u003ca href=\"https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/03/openai-urges-trump-either-settle-ai-copyright-debate-or-lose-ai-race-to-china/\"> OpenAI\u003c/a> and\u003ca href=\"https://blog.google/outreach-initiatives/public-policy/google-us-ai-action-plan-comments/\"> Google\u003c/a> publicly argued copyright protections should not apply to AI development because the software uses existing works to create something new and different. Both companies were seen to be signaling to the Trump administration that they wanted disruptive changes to copyright law, some form of which existed since\u003ca href=\"https://www.copyright.gov/history/copyright-exhibit/beginnings/#:~:text=Congress%20implemented%20the%20intellectual%20property,law%20on%20May%2031,%201790.\"> 1790\u003c/a> when it was signed into law by President George Washington.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’ll need the right policy frameworks to secure America’s position as an AI powerhouse and support a new era of opportunity,” wrote Kent Walker, President of Global Affairs for Google and its parent company, Alphabet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A Bay Area lawmaker, backed by the union that represents Hollywood actors, is wading into the fight over copyright.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The AI Copyright Transparency Act,\u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260AB412\"> AB 412\u003c/a>, introduced by Assemblymember Rebecca Bauer-Kahan (D-Orinda), doesn’t promise to address the fundamental disagreement over what constitutes fair use, which is still working its way\u003ca href=\"https://www.bakerlaw.com/services/artificial-intelligence-ai/case-tracker-artificial-intelligence-copyrights-and-class-actions/\"> through the courts\u003c/a> in multiple lawsuits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The legislation would require AI developers to disclose when copyrighted materials are used to train generative artificial intelligence models.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>AB 412 “merely provides the copyright holder with notice,” Bauer-Kahan said in the measure’s first legislative hearing before the Privacy And Consumer Protection committee she chairs in the California Assembly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When Scarlett Johansson’s voice is coming out of an AI model, the people that own the copyrights to the movies and the works she was in have a right to know, ‘Is that why it sounds like Scarlett Johansson?’” Bauer-Kahan said, referring to the widely publicized battle between the\u003ca href=\"https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/scarlett-johansson-ai-legal-threat-1235905899/\"> actor and OpenAI\u003c/a> for allegedly copying and imitating her voice after she refused to license it to the company.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill is sponsored by the Screen Actors Guild – American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (SAG-AFTRA) and co-sponsored by the Creative Artists Agency and the National Association of Voice Actors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=news_11958785 hero='https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/10/2023/08/GettyImages-1558852156-1020x699.jpg']\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Joely Fisher, SAG-AFTRA Secretary-Treasurer and chair of its government affairs and public policy committee, said the fight over AI was at the heart of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11956178/its-now-or-never-writers-and-actors-see-conflict-with-big-tech-as-existential\">the union’s strike\u003c/a> against the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers that ran 118 days in 2023. The language about AI in the contract wasn’t approved until the 11th hour, she said, “always knowing that we needed legislation to enforce some of the things that we talked about and our studio partners agreed to.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The technology is advancing rapidly, she added. Just a few years ago, it was remarkable that her half-sister Carrie Fisher appeared posthumously in Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker with a composite of unused footage from The Force Awakens and archival footage from the original trilogy. In that case, there was consent and compensation for the family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They were able to use a synthetic performer, which is, like, terrible to even have that come out of my mouth,” Fisher said. But now, she continued, the more likely threat to creative artists is a synthesis of their work and others’ work. “We could all be put into one of the blenders, and they could spit out a character that is a little bit of all of us.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Electronic Frontier Foundation and the California Chamber of Commerce oppose the legislation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“AB 412 imposes an impossible new regulatory regime that would cause devastating collateral damage for research and innovation,” said Becca Kramer of Kaiser Advocacy, testifying on behalf of the Electronic Frontier Foundation. She also warned the bill could unintentionally advantage Silicon Valley’s reigning giants. “Big Tech can afford the content licensing and legal teams to handle litigation over whether they made the reasonable efforts required by, but not defined, in the bill.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Assembly Privacy and Consumer Protection Committee approved AB 412, passing it to the Assembly Judiciary Committee.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As chair of the consumer privacy and protection committee, Bauer-Kahan is in a pole position to push her bill and others regulating AI through to the governor’s desk. She and other California lawmakers, like state senate budget chair Scott Wiener (D-San Francisco), have fired off a\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2025/03/ai-regulation-after-trump-election/\"> salvo of 30 bills\u003c/a> since the start of the legislative session.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s a follow-up to last year when Gov. Gavin Newsom signed more than 20 AI laws but vetoed others, including the\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12007087/california-blinks-governor-newsom-vetoes-ai-bill-aimed-at-catastrophic-harms\"> most high-profile bill by Wiener\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the time, Newsom convened the Joint California Policy Working Group on AI Frontier Models, which has just released an\u003ca href=\"https://www.cafrontieraigov.org\"> interim report\u003c/a> presenting a framework for the governance of AI models in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This report affirms with cutting-edge research that the rapid pace of technological advancement in AI means policymakers must act with haste to impose reasonable guardrails to mitigate foreseeable risks,” Sen. Wiener wrote in response, indicating another fight is underway between two of California’s most successful homegrown industries, with state lawmakers in the middle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>KQED reporters and producers are represented by SAG-AFTRA.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>It’s no secret that artificial intelligence developers train their models on books, music, movies and other copyrighted materials without obtaining consent or \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11958785/how-silicon-valley-ate-hollywood\">providing credit and compensation\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Just last week,\u003ca href=\"https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/03/openai-urges-trump-either-settle-ai-copyright-debate-or-lose-ai-race-to-china/\"> OpenAI\u003c/a> and\u003ca href=\"https://blog.google/outreach-initiatives/public-policy/google-us-ai-action-plan-comments/\"> Google\u003c/a> publicly argued copyright protections should not apply to AI development because the software uses existing works to create something new and different. Both companies were seen to be signaling to the Trump administration that they wanted disruptive changes to copyright law, some form of which existed since\u003ca href=\"https://www.copyright.gov/history/copyright-exhibit/beginnings/#:~:text=Congress%20implemented%20the%20intellectual%20property,law%20on%20May%2031,%201790.\"> 1790\u003c/a> when it was signed into law by President George Washington.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’ll need the right policy frameworks to secure America’s position as an AI powerhouse and support a new era of opportunity,” wrote Kent Walker, President of Global Affairs for Google and its parent company, Alphabet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A Bay Area lawmaker, backed by the union that represents Hollywood actors, is wading into the fight over copyright.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The AI Copyright Transparency Act,\u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260AB412\"> AB 412\u003c/a>, introduced by Assemblymember Rebecca Bauer-Kahan (D-Orinda), doesn’t promise to address the fundamental disagreement over what constitutes fair use, which is still working its way\u003ca href=\"https://www.bakerlaw.com/services/artificial-intelligence-ai/case-tracker-artificial-intelligence-copyrights-and-class-actions/\"> through the courts\u003c/a> in multiple lawsuits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The legislation would require AI developers to disclose when copyrighted materials are used to train generative artificial intelligence models.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>AB 412 “merely provides the copyright holder with notice,” Bauer-Kahan said in the measure’s first legislative hearing before the Privacy And Consumer Protection committee she chairs in the California Assembly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When Scarlett Johansson’s voice is coming out of an AI model, the people that own the copyrights to the movies and the works she was in have a right to know, ‘Is that why it sounds like Scarlett Johansson?’” Bauer-Kahan said, referring to the widely publicized battle between the\u003ca href=\"https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/scarlett-johansson-ai-legal-threat-1235905899/\"> actor and OpenAI\u003c/a> for allegedly copying and imitating her voice after she refused to license it to the company.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill is sponsored by the Screen Actors Guild – American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (SAG-AFTRA) and co-sponsored by the Creative Artists Agency and the National Association of Voice Actors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Joely Fisher, SAG-AFTRA Secretary-Treasurer and chair of its government affairs and public policy committee, said the fight over AI was at the heart of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11956178/its-now-or-never-writers-and-actors-see-conflict-with-big-tech-as-existential\">the union’s strike\u003c/a> against the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers that ran 118 days in 2023. The language about AI in the contract wasn’t approved until the 11th hour, she said, “always knowing that we needed legislation to enforce some of the things that we talked about and our studio partners agreed to.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The technology is advancing rapidly, she added. Just a few years ago, it was remarkable that her half-sister Carrie Fisher appeared posthumously in Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker with a composite of unused footage from The Force Awakens and archival footage from the original trilogy. In that case, there was consent and compensation for the family.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They were able to use a synthetic performer, which is, like, terrible to even have that come out of my mouth,” Fisher said. But now, she continued, the more likely threat to creative artists is a synthesis of their work and others’ work. “We could all be put into one of the blenders, and they could spit out a character that is a little bit of all of us.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Electronic Frontier Foundation and the California Chamber of Commerce oppose the legislation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“AB 412 imposes an impossible new regulatory regime that would cause devastating collateral damage for research and innovation,” said Becca Kramer of Kaiser Advocacy, testifying on behalf of the Electronic Frontier Foundation. She also warned the bill could unintentionally advantage Silicon Valley’s reigning giants. “Big Tech can afford the content licensing and legal teams to handle litigation over whether they made the reasonable efforts required by, but not defined, in the bill.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Assembly Privacy and Consumer Protection Committee approved AB 412, passing it to the Assembly Judiciary Committee.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As chair of the consumer privacy and protection committee, Bauer-Kahan is in a pole position to push her bill and others regulating AI through to the governor’s desk. She and other California lawmakers, like state senate budget chair Scott Wiener (D-San Francisco), have fired off a\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2025/03/ai-regulation-after-trump-election/\"> salvo of 30 bills\u003c/a> since the start of the legislative session.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s a follow-up to last year when Gov. Gavin Newsom signed more than 20 AI laws but vetoed others, including the\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12007087/california-blinks-governor-newsom-vetoes-ai-bill-aimed-at-catastrophic-harms\"> most high-profile bill by Wiener\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the time, Newsom convened the Joint California Policy Working Group on AI Frontier Models, which has just released an\u003ca href=\"https://www.cafrontieraigov.org\"> interim report\u003c/a> presenting a framework for the governance of AI models in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This report affirms with cutting-edge research that the rapid pace of technological advancement in AI means policymakers must act with haste to impose reasonable guardrails to mitigate foreseeable risks,” Sen. Wiener wrote in response, indicating another fight is underway between two of California’s most successful homegrown industries, with state lawmakers in the middle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>KQED reporters and producers are represented by SAG-AFTRA.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "California College Professors Divided on AI's Role in Education",
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"content": "\u003cp>Since Open AI’s release of ChatGPT in \u003ca class=\"external\" href=\"https://www.forbes.com/sites/bernardmarr/2023/05/19/a-short-history-of-chatgpt-how-we-got-to-where-we-are-today/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">2022\u003c/a>, artificial intelligence (AI) chatbots and models have found their way into the California college systems. These AI tools include language models and image generators that provide responses and images based on user prompts.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Many college professors have spoken out against AI’s use in college coursework, citing concerns of cheating, inaccurate responses, student overreliance on the tool, and, as a consequence, diminished critical thinking. Universities across the U.S. have implemented AI-detecting software like Turnitin to prevent cheating through the use of AI tools.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, some professors have embraced the use of generative AI and envision its integration into curricula and research in various disciplines. To these professors, students learning how to use AI is critical to their future careers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>An \u003ca class=\"external\" href=\"https://download.ssrn.com/2024/10/3/4975641.pdf?response-content-disposition=inline&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjELz%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEaCXVzLWVhc3QtMSJGMEQCIHLuqU0DaQLRK6M1yiufsr%2F1Z5wAMUKEjgjmvTx7iiHvAiALhEtG9jfPo4wMuZ59kEDc7Jlb9PvBxDf77xud9kzIHyq%2BBQg1EAQaDDMwODQ3NTMwMTI1NyIMCc0%2B3BMQmaWNpRuRKpsFGH%2BdsoeYDZ%2BPuW8%2F44BhO5S1XA%2FRvuE5yBpxzjdfg%2FANfFCWooqO2sin1fsAQDnBhCRXH1ke3YwUPgb1tqIX5zqHYX8jcyrMWND1Tsy2Uf2E%2FPcOETSQ1d68BMD2z%2BFAXVeqMGJevA8S3QGBDV4sI25C%2FGQKgEYztawZJttF%2F7l5IsiqG6SQw4ax396C6hZ%2FfddItLxK0wV0lRVmpK8Tm0JmeoXBE79glrT1rvB%2Bu%2BLaEU1GluAK9kgxElBEEhi9rFjdVzt2zYvCh%2Fx663ZzuwYvYL4X5luknfgmWcyM3JvBqt1SyYh5bLDUyiLviAB9BJ7vsJKdrj6Y4FqaOjNoVx4hBUxfJnbpNkSXg4Ci8cSwBG217uCz3loqCtFirS1DA3m5YC293uEEk1EOGaDmJd92FuLyNhjfWaREtK4oYKRdwlkrT6MyvcqvP%2FTUekqxE4jkbJ6r9B4WvXhZM%2B2gDHWI91qvThqrueSWDM%2FLs9Ed5yGZXLtlKTpqgXmcstlVukxBIZ05fZnmv1UkqdGnmkS4iAREuEUXJMf3B5oJ7g7c%2FecV8zAB%2F6S2T5kKBdqPL78rCV5pZuIpaw7XaGLaErwMMMHFGK4KRAD5iYdVhn8yVYZwW5s4Z88WqmOIjrTAQAkHP3R3riK1XcUyHh5HgWXRrIxNd57WAywPLGpVWYyUzlh7BTQskKQzJsiRM2xdXFZh1Y9rzDOzLv%2BdtIQZLGQ9FAO%2B1OpM4uCddGIFeFv2FUzI1e1aFCfP32Cxo4AsANw%2FaCGCqbA6MujSRK8aYOjUawIePW3c8zZt%2Bt1EH%2FtHkhqaUvE3%2FVQrSzXy1142rbWbeJKQIoWuy63c1oYzs2MqHiZG6VKXLZcyA67H1RaBQOKwZjETClHq2jDwpfq4BjqyAa2LhxG78J%2FEelsAHSF2S8%2F8G3CsuRwNk7lfYJkgYYuUzq0mznwEC2YGvA2VY695TXGwRe%2Bv%2FAaoRR6JmjWp0E%2FdPoYYYj8l7vU0nt0scV4XGOhcNPA4eJQ7sgqhpbb8cJeZsiR8k6InUTlkCP6dAS2UWAo3J4ggJ4MwmPxsyAOypaoYD3YuKxak94h2vuyskCY1zXgybj6c4G56NnRgehfqXsSXy2Rl9%2BP5cvaaDzjQ5sE%3D&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Date=20241027T200507Z&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAUPUUPRWE2N5VVOEM%2F20241027%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Signature=26c4d42e6232c9bb5b2bc6e9e1347b44fbbfe34fd748b8b68eda4648958bf75c&abstractId=4975641\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">October 2024 report\u003c/a> from the University of Southern California’s Marshall School of Business found that 38% of the school’s faculty use AI in their classrooms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ramandeep Randhawa, professor of business administration and data science at USC, was one of the report’s 26 co-authors and organized the effort.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As companies increasingly integrate AI into their workflows, it is critical to prepare students for this AI-first environment by enabling them to use this technology meaningfully and ethically,” Randhawa said. “Universities, as bastions of knowledge, must lead the way by incorporating AI into their curricula.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">All in on AI\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>At California State University, Long Beach, gerontology lecturer Casey Goeller has incorporated AI into his course assignments since fall 2023.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Students enter Goeller’s Perspectives on Gerontology course with various levels of experience with AI. By asking students for a show of hands, Goeller estimates the class is usually evenly split, with some students having no experience, others having dabbled with it and some who have used it extensively.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Goeller aims to help students understand how AI can be beneficial to them academically, whether it be assisting with brainstorming, organizing, or acting as a 24/7 on-call tutor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To achieve this, Goeller’s assignments include students using an AI tool of their choice to address his feedback on their essays based on criteria such as content, flow and plagiarism concerns. Another assignment, worth 15% of their grade, emphasizes the importance of prompt engineering by having students use AI-generated questions to interview an older person in their life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While Goeller gets a lot of questions from fellow faculty members about how AI works and how to implement it, he also hears plenty of hesitation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s a lot of faculty who’s still riding a horse to work, I call it,” Goeller said. “One of them said, ‘I am never going to use AI. It’s just not going to happen.’ I said, ‘What you should do if you think you can get away with that is tomorrow morning, get up really early and stop the sun from coming up, because that’s how inevitable AI is.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Goeller heeds the difficulties in establishing a conclusive way to incorporate AI into curricula due to different academic disciplines and styles of learning, but he does recognize the growing presence of AI in the workforce. Today, AI is filling various roles across industries, from analyzing trends in newsrooms and grocery stores, to generating entertainment, a point of contention for SAG-AFTRA members during 2023’s Hollywood strikes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If we don’t help our students understand AI before they escape this place, they’re going to get into the workforce where it’s there,” Goeller said. “If they don’t know anything about it or are uncomfortable with it, they’re at a disadvantage compared to a student with the same degree and knowledge of AI.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California State University, Northridge, journalism lecturer Marta Valier has students use ChatGPT to write headlines, interview questions and video captions in her Multimedia Storytelling and Multi-platform Storytelling classes due to the inevitability of AI in the workforce.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The goal of the implementation is to teach students how AI algorithms operate and how journalists can use AI to assist their work. Not using it, she said, “would be like not using ink.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I absolutely want students to experiment with AI because, in newsrooms, it is used. In offices, it is used,” Valier said. “It’s just a matter of understanding which tools are useful, for what and where human creativity is still the best and where AI can help.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>AI tools such as ChatGPT and Copilot are frequently \u003ca class=\"external\" href=\"https://help.openai.com/en/articles/6825453-chatgpt-release-notes\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">updated\u003c/a>, so Valier emphasizes flexibility when teaching about these technological topics.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I basically change my curriculum every day,” Valier said. “I think it reminds me as a professional that you need to constantly adapt to new technology because it’s going to change very fast. It’s very important to be open, to be curious about what technology can bring us and how it can help us.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, Valier acknowledges the issues of AI in terms of data privacy and providing factual responses. She reminds students that it is their responsibility to make sure the information ChatGPT provides is accurate by doing their own research or rechecking results, and to avoid reliance on the platform. [aside postID=\"news_12031237,mindshift_64575,mindshift_65296\" label=\"Related Stories\"]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Be very careful with personal information,” Valier said. “Especially if you have sources, or people that you want to protect, be very careful putting names and information that is sensitive.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Valier sees a clear difference in the quality of work produced by students who combine AI with their own skills, versus those who rely entirely on artificial intelligence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You can tell when the person uses ChatGPT and stays on top of it, and when GPT takes over,” Valier said. “What I am really interested in is the point of view of the student, so when GPT takes over, there is no point of view. Even if [a student] doesn’t have the best writing, the ideas are still there.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Balancing AI use in the classroom\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Many AI-friendly instructors seek to strike a balance between AI-enriched assignments and AI-free assignments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At USC, professors are encouraged to develop AI policies for each of their classes. Professors can choose between two approaches, as laid out in the school’s \u003ca class=\"external\" href=\"https://academicsenate.usc.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2023/02/CIS-Generative-AI-Guidelines-20230214.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">instructor guidelines for AI use\u003c/a>: “Embrace and Enhance” or “Discourage and Detect.” \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bobby Carnes, an associate professor of clinical accounting at USC, has adopted a balance between both approaches while teaching Introduction to Financial Accounting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I use it all the time, so it doesn’t make sense to tell (students) they can’t use it,” Carnes said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12031558\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/6-Bobby-Carnes-@-USC-scaled-1.jpeg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12031558\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/6-Bobby-Carnes-@-USC-scaled-1.jpeg\" alt=\"A white man wearing a red vest sits on a desk chair in front of a desk with three computer monitors.\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/6-Bobby-Carnes-@-USC-scaled-1.jpeg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/6-Bobby-Carnes-@-USC-scaled-1-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/6-Bobby-Carnes-@-USC-scaled-1-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/6-Bobby-Carnes-@-USC-scaled-1-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/6-Bobby-Carnes-@-USC-scaled-1-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/6-Bobby-Carnes-@-USC-scaled-1-2048x1366.jpeg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/6-Bobby-Carnes-@-USC-scaled-1-1920x1280.jpeg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An avid user of AI tools like ChatGPT, USC associate professor of clinical accounting Bobby Carnes encourages AI experimentation for some assignments, but prohibits students from using it on exams. \u003ccite>(Christina Chkarboul/EdSource)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp class=\"has-text-align-left\">Carnes uses AI to refine his grammar in personal and professional work and to develop questions for tests.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I give ChatGPT the information that I taught in the class, and then I can ask, ‘What topics haven’t I covered with these exam questions?’ It can help provide a more rich or robust exam,” Carnes said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He doesn’t allow students to use AI in exams that test for practical accounting skills, though.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You need that baseline, but we’re trying to get students to be at that next level, to see the big picture,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Carnes said he wants his students to take advantage of AI tools that are already changing the field, while mastering the foundational skills they’ll need to become financial managers and leaders.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The nice thing about accounting is that the jobs just become more interesting (with AI), where there’s not as much remedial tasks,” Carnes said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Preserving foundational learning\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Olivia Obeso, professor of education and literacy at California State Polytechnic University, San Luis Obispo, believes establishing foundational knowledge and critical thinking skills through AI-free teaching is non-negotiable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Obeso enforces her own no ChatGPT/AI usage policy in her Foundations of K-8 Literacy Teaching class to prepare her students for challenges in their post-collegiate life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“AI takes out the opportunity to engage in that productive struggle,” Obeso said. “That means my students won’t necessarily understand the topics as deeply or develop the skills they need.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Obeso is also concerned about ChatGPT’s environmental impact: For an in-class activity at the start of the fall 2024 semester, she asked students to research the software’s energy and water use.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The energy required to power ChatGPT emits 8.4 tons of carbon dioxide per year, according to \u003ca class=\"external\" href=\"http://earth.org/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Earth.Org\u003c/a>. The average passenger vehicle produces 5 tons per year. Asking ChatGPT 20-50 questions uses \u003ca class=\"external\" href=\"http://earth.org/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">500 millliters (16.9) ounces of water\u003c/a>, the size of a standard plastic water bottle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By the end of the exercise, Obeso said her students became “experts” on ethical considerations concerning AI, sharing their findings with the class through a discussion on what they read, how they felt and whether they had new concerns about using AI.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You are a student and you are learning how to operate in this world, hold yourselves accountable,” Obeso said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jessica Odden, a senior majoring in child development, said Obeso’s class helped them understand AI use in the classroom as an aspiring teacher.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“For people that are using (AI) in the wrong ways, it makes people reassess how people might be using it, especially in classes like this where we are training to become teachers,” Odden said. “What are you going to do when you actually have to lesson-plan yourself?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Odden makes sure she sticks to learning the fundamentals of teaching herself so that she will be prepared for her first job.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>AI in curricula\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>At the University of California, San Diego, some faculty members have echoed a concern for AI’s infringement upon independent learning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Academic coordinator Eberly Barnes is interested in finding a middle ground that incorporates AI into curricula where it complements students’ critical thinking, rather than replaces it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Barnes oversees the analytical writing program, Making of the Modern World (MMW), where her responsibilities include revising the course’s policy of AI use in student work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The current policy enables students to use AI to stimulate their thinking, reading and writing for their assignments. However, it explicitly prohibits the use of the software to replace any of the aforementioned skills or the elaboration of the written piece itself.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite the encouraged use of AI, Barnes expressed her own hesitancy about the role of AI in the field of social sciences and the research and writing skills needed to work within it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“One of the goals in MMW is to teach critical thinking and also to teach academic writing. And the writing is embedded in the curriculum. You’re not going to learn to write if you’re just going to machine,” Barnes said. “The policy is inspired by the fact that we don’t think there’s any way to stop generative AI use.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Barnes designs the writing prompts for the second and third series in the MMW program, she collaborates with teaching assistants to make assignment prompts incompatible with AI analysis and reduce the likelihood that students will seek out AI’s help for passing grades.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Students feel absolutely obsessed with grades and are very pressured to compete,” Barnes said. “That’s been around. I mean it is definitely worse here at UCSD than it was at other colleges and universities that I’ve been at.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>A tool, not a cheat code\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Celeste Pilegard is a professor of cognitive science and educational psychology at UCSD. She has been teaching introductory research methods since 2019, focusing on foundational topics that will prepare students for higher-level topics in the field.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Educators like Pilegard have been struggling to adapt after the widespread adoption of AI tools.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“For me and a lot of professors, there’s fear,” Pilegard said. “We’re holding onto the last vestiges, hoping this isn’t going to become the thing everyone is using.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pilegard is concerned that students rely on AI tools to easily pass their intro-level courses, leaving them without a firm understanding of the content and an inability to properly assess AI’s accuracy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s hard to notice what is real and what is fake, what is helpful and what is misguided,” Pilegard said. “When you have enough expertise in an area, it’s possible to use ChatGPT as a thinking tool because you can detect its shortcomings.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, Pilegard does believe AI can assist in learning. She likens the current situation with AI to the advent of statistical analysis software back in the 1970s, which eliminated the need to do calculations by hand.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At that time, many professors argued for the importance of students doing work manually to comprehend the foundations. However, these tools are now regularly used in the classroom with the acceptance and guidance of educators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>”I don’t want to be the stick in the mud in terms of artificial intelligence,” Pilegard said. “Maybe there are some things that aren’t important for students to be doing themselves. But when the thing you’re offloading onto the computer is building the connections that help you build expertise, you’re really missing an opportunity to be learning deeply.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This article featured reporting from the California Student Journalism Corps, EdSource’s journalism mentoring and support initiative.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Since Open AI’s release of ChatGPT in \u003ca class=\"external\" href=\"https://www.forbes.com/sites/bernardmarr/2023/05/19/a-short-history-of-chatgpt-how-we-got-to-where-we-are-today/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">2022\u003c/a>, artificial intelligence (AI) chatbots and models have found their way into the California college systems. These AI tools include language models and image generators that provide responses and images based on user prompts.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Many college professors have spoken out against AI’s use in college coursework, citing concerns of cheating, inaccurate responses, student overreliance on the tool, and, as a consequence, diminished critical thinking. Universities across the U.S. have implemented AI-detecting software like Turnitin to prevent cheating through the use of AI tools.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, some professors have embraced the use of generative AI and envision its integration into curricula and research in various disciplines. To these professors, students learning how to use AI is critical to their future careers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>An \u003ca class=\"external\" href=\"https://download.ssrn.com/2024/10/3/4975641.pdf?response-content-disposition=inline&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjELz%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEaCXVzLWVhc3QtMSJGMEQCIHLuqU0DaQLRK6M1yiufsr%2F1Z5wAMUKEjgjmvTx7iiHvAiALhEtG9jfPo4wMuZ59kEDc7Jlb9PvBxDf77xud9kzIHyq%2BBQg1EAQaDDMwODQ3NTMwMTI1NyIMCc0%2B3BMQmaWNpRuRKpsFGH%2BdsoeYDZ%2BPuW8%2F44BhO5S1XA%2FRvuE5yBpxzjdfg%2FANfFCWooqO2sin1fsAQDnBhCRXH1ke3YwUPgb1tqIX5zqHYX8jcyrMWND1Tsy2Uf2E%2FPcOETSQ1d68BMD2z%2BFAXVeqMGJevA8S3QGBDV4sI25C%2FGQKgEYztawZJttF%2F7l5IsiqG6SQw4ax396C6hZ%2FfddItLxK0wV0lRVmpK8Tm0JmeoXBE79glrT1rvB%2Bu%2BLaEU1GluAK9kgxElBEEhi9rFjdVzt2zYvCh%2Fx663ZzuwYvYL4X5luknfgmWcyM3JvBqt1SyYh5bLDUyiLviAB9BJ7vsJKdrj6Y4FqaOjNoVx4hBUxfJnbpNkSXg4Ci8cSwBG217uCz3loqCtFirS1DA3m5YC293uEEk1EOGaDmJd92FuLyNhjfWaREtK4oYKRdwlkrT6MyvcqvP%2FTUekqxE4jkbJ6r9B4WvXhZM%2B2gDHWI91qvThqrueSWDM%2FLs9Ed5yGZXLtlKTpqgXmcstlVukxBIZ05fZnmv1UkqdGnmkS4iAREuEUXJMf3B5oJ7g7c%2FecV8zAB%2F6S2T5kKBdqPL78rCV5pZuIpaw7XaGLaErwMMMHFGK4KRAD5iYdVhn8yVYZwW5s4Z88WqmOIjrTAQAkHP3R3riK1XcUyHh5HgWXRrIxNd57WAywPLGpVWYyUzlh7BTQskKQzJsiRM2xdXFZh1Y9rzDOzLv%2BdtIQZLGQ9FAO%2B1OpM4uCddGIFeFv2FUzI1e1aFCfP32Cxo4AsANw%2FaCGCqbA6MujSRK8aYOjUawIePW3c8zZt%2Bt1EH%2FtHkhqaUvE3%2FVQrSzXy1142rbWbeJKQIoWuy63c1oYzs2MqHiZG6VKXLZcyA67H1RaBQOKwZjETClHq2jDwpfq4BjqyAa2LhxG78J%2FEelsAHSF2S8%2F8G3CsuRwNk7lfYJkgYYuUzq0mznwEC2YGvA2VY695TXGwRe%2Bv%2FAaoRR6JmjWp0E%2FdPoYYYj8l7vU0nt0scV4XGOhcNPA4eJQ7sgqhpbb8cJeZsiR8k6InUTlkCP6dAS2UWAo3J4ggJ4MwmPxsyAOypaoYD3YuKxak94h2vuyskCY1zXgybj6c4G56NnRgehfqXsSXy2Rl9%2BP5cvaaDzjQ5sE%3D&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Date=20241027T200507Z&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAUPUUPRWE2N5VVOEM%2F20241027%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Signature=26c4d42e6232c9bb5b2bc6e9e1347b44fbbfe34fd748b8b68eda4648958bf75c&abstractId=4975641\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">October 2024 report\u003c/a> from the University of Southern California’s Marshall School of Business found that 38% of the school’s faculty use AI in their classrooms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Ramandeep Randhawa, professor of business administration and data science at USC, was one of the report’s 26 co-authors and organized the effort.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As companies increasingly integrate AI into their workflows, it is critical to prepare students for this AI-first environment by enabling them to use this technology meaningfully and ethically,” Randhawa said. “Universities, as bastions of knowledge, must lead the way by incorporating AI into their curricula.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">All in on AI\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>At California State University, Long Beach, gerontology lecturer Casey Goeller has incorporated AI into his course assignments since fall 2023.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Students enter Goeller’s Perspectives on Gerontology course with various levels of experience with AI. By asking students for a show of hands, Goeller estimates the class is usually evenly split, with some students having no experience, others having dabbled with it and some who have used it extensively.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Goeller aims to help students understand how AI can be beneficial to them academically, whether it be assisting with brainstorming, organizing, or acting as a 24/7 on-call tutor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To achieve this, Goeller’s assignments include students using an AI tool of their choice to address his feedback on their essays based on criteria such as content, flow and plagiarism concerns. Another assignment, worth 15% of their grade, emphasizes the importance of prompt engineering by having students use AI-generated questions to interview an older person in their life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>While Goeller gets a lot of questions from fellow faculty members about how AI works and how to implement it, he also hears plenty of hesitation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s a lot of faculty who’s still riding a horse to work, I call it,” Goeller said. “One of them said, ‘I am never going to use AI. It’s just not going to happen.’ I said, ‘What you should do if you think you can get away with that is tomorrow morning, get up really early and stop the sun from coming up, because that’s how inevitable AI is.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Goeller heeds the difficulties in establishing a conclusive way to incorporate AI into curricula due to different academic disciplines and styles of learning, but he does recognize the growing presence of AI in the workforce. Today, AI is filling various roles across industries, from analyzing trends in newsrooms and grocery stores, to generating entertainment, a point of contention for SAG-AFTRA members during 2023’s Hollywood strikes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If we don’t help our students understand AI before they escape this place, they’re going to get into the workforce where it’s there,” Goeller said. “If they don’t know anything about it or are uncomfortable with it, they’re at a disadvantage compared to a student with the same degree and knowledge of AI.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California State University, Northridge, journalism lecturer Marta Valier has students use ChatGPT to write headlines, interview questions and video captions in her Multimedia Storytelling and Multi-platform Storytelling classes due to the inevitability of AI in the workforce.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The goal of the implementation is to teach students how AI algorithms operate and how journalists can use AI to assist their work. Not using it, she said, “would be like not using ink.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I absolutely want students to experiment with AI because, in newsrooms, it is used. In offices, it is used,” Valier said. “It’s just a matter of understanding which tools are useful, for what and where human creativity is still the best and where AI can help.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>AI tools such as ChatGPT and Copilot are frequently \u003ca class=\"external\" href=\"https://help.openai.com/en/articles/6825453-chatgpt-release-notes\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">updated\u003c/a>, so Valier emphasizes flexibility when teaching about these technological topics.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I basically change my curriculum every day,” Valier said. “I think it reminds me as a professional that you need to constantly adapt to new technology because it’s going to change very fast. It’s very important to be open, to be curious about what technology can bring us and how it can help us.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, Valier acknowledges the issues of AI in terms of data privacy and providing factual responses. She reminds students that it is their responsibility to make sure the information ChatGPT provides is accurate by doing their own research or rechecking results, and to avoid reliance on the platform. \u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Be very careful with personal information,” Valier said. “Especially if you have sources, or people that you want to protect, be very careful putting names and information that is sensitive.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Valier sees a clear difference in the quality of work produced by students who combine AI with their own skills, versus those who rely entirely on artificial intelligence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You can tell when the person uses ChatGPT and stays on top of it, and when GPT takes over,” Valier said. “What I am really interested in is the point of view of the student, so when GPT takes over, there is no point of view. Even if [a student] doesn’t have the best writing, the ideas are still there.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Balancing AI use in the classroom\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Many AI-friendly instructors seek to strike a balance between AI-enriched assignments and AI-free assignments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At USC, professors are encouraged to develop AI policies for each of their classes. Professors can choose between two approaches, as laid out in the school’s \u003ca class=\"external\" href=\"https://academicsenate.usc.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2023/02/CIS-Generative-AI-Guidelines-20230214.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">instructor guidelines for AI use\u003c/a>: “Embrace and Enhance” or “Discourage and Detect.” \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bobby Carnes, an associate professor of clinical accounting at USC, has adopted a balance between both approaches while teaching Introduction to Financial Accounting.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I use it all the time, so it doesn’t make sense to tell (students) they can’t use it,” Carnes said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12031558\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2560px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/6-Bobby-Carnes-@-USC-scaled-1.jpeg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12031558\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/6-Bobby-Carnes-@-USC-scaled-1.jpeg\" alt=\"A white man wearing a red vest sits on a desk chair in front of a desk with three computer monitors.\" width=\"2560\" height=\"1707\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/6-Bobby-Carnes-@-USC-scaled-1.jpeg 2560w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/6-Bobby-Carnes-@-USC-scaled-1-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/6-Bobby-Carnes-@-USC-scaled-1-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/6-Bobby-Carnes-@-USC-scaled-1-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/6-Bobby-Carnes-@-USC-scaled-1-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/6-Bobby-Carnes-@-USC-scaled-1-2048x1366.jpeg 2048w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/6-Bobby-Carnes-@-USC-scaled-1-1920x1280.jpeg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2560px) 100vw, 2560px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An avid user of AI tools like ChatGPT, USC associate professor of clinical accounting Bobby Carnes encourages AI experimentation for some assignments, but prohibits students from using it on exams. \u003ccite>(Christina Chkarboul/EdSource)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp class=\"has-text-align-left\">Carnes uses AI to refine his grammar in personal and professional work and to develop questions for tests.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I give ChatGPT the information that I taught in the class, and then I can ask, ‘What topics haven’t I covered with these exam questions?’ It can help provide a more rich or robust exam,” Carnes said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He doesn’t allow students to use AI in exams that test for practical accounting skills, though.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You need that baseline, but we’re trying to get students to be at that next level, to see the big picture,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Carnes said he wants his students to take advantage of AI tools that are already changing the field, while mastering the foundational skills they’ll need to become financial managers and leaders.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The nice thing about accounting is that the jobs just become more interesting (with AI), where there’s not as much remedial tasks,” Carnes said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Preserving foundational learning\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Olivia Obeso, professor of education and literacy at California State Polytechnic University, San Luis Obispo, believes establishing foundational knowledge and critical thinking skills through AI-free teaching is non-negotiable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Obeso enforces her own no ChatGPT/AI usage policy in her Foundations of K-8 Literacy Teaching class to prepare her students for challenges in their post-collegiate life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“AI takes out the opportunity to engage in that productive struggle,” Obeso said. “That means my students won’t necessarily understand the topics as deeply or develop the skills they need.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Obeso is also concerned about ChatGPT’s environmental impact: For an in-class activity at the start of the fall 2024 semester, she asked students to research the software’s energy and water use.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The energy required to power ChatGPT emits 8.4 tons of carbon dioxide per year, according to \u003ca class=\"external\" href=\"http://earth.org/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Earth.Org\u003c/a>. The average passenger vehicle produces 5 tons per year. Asking ChatGPT 20-50 questions uses \u003ca class=\"external\" href=\"http://earth.org/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">500 millliters (16.9) ounces of water\u003c/a>, the size of a standard plastic water bottle.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By the end of the exercise, Obeso said her students became “experts” on ethical considerations concerning AI, sharing their findings with the class through a discussion on what they read, how they felt and whether they had new concerns about using AI.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You are a student and you are learning how to operate in this world, hold yourselves accountable,” Obeso said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Jessica Odden, a senior majoring in child development, said Obeso’s class helped them understand AI use in the classroom as an aspiring teacher.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“For people that are using (AI) in the wrong ways, it makes people reassess how people might be using it, especially in classes like this where we are training to become teachers,” Odden said. “What are you going to do when you actually have to lesson-plan yourself?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Odden makes sure she sticks to learning the fundamentals of teaching herself so that she will be prepared for her first job.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>AI in curricula\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>At the University of California, San Diego, some faculty members have echoed a concern for AI’s infringement upon independent learning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Academic coordinator Eberly Barnes is interested in finding a middle ground that incorporates AI into curricula where it complements students’ critical thinking, rather than replaces it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Barnes oversees the analytical writing program, Making of the Modern World (MMW), where her responsibilities include revising the course’s policy of AI use in student work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The current policy enables students to use AI to stimulate their thinking, reading and writing for their assignments. However, it explicitly prohibits the use of the software to replace any of the aforementioned skills or the elaboration of the written piece itself.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Despite the encouraged use of AI, Barnes expressed her own hesitancy about the role of AI in the field of social sciences and the research and writing skills needed to work within it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“One of the goals in MMW is to teach critical thinking and also to teach academic writing. And the writing is embedded in the curriculum. You’re not going to learn to write if you’re just going to machine,” Barnes said. “The policy is inspired by the fact that we don’t think there’s any way to stop generative AI use.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When Barnes designs the writing prompts for the second and third series in the MMW program, she collaborates with teaching assistants to make assignment prompts incompatible with AI analysis and reduce the likelihood that students will seek out AI’s help for passing grades.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Students feel absolutely obsessed with grades and are very pressured to compete,” Barnes said. “That’s been around. I mean it is definitely worse here at UCSD than it was at other colleges and universities that I’ve been at.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>A tool, not a cheat code\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Celeste Pilegard is a professor of cognitive science and educational psychology at UCSD. She has been teaching introductory research methods since 2019, focusing on foundational topics that will prepare students for higher-level topics in the field.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Educators like Pilegard have been struggling to adapt after the widespread adoption of AI tools.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“For me and a lot of professors, there’s fear,” Pilegard said. “We’re holding onto the last vestiges, hoping this isn’t going to become the thing everyone is using.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pilegard is concerned that students rely on AI tools to easily pass their intro-level courses, leaving them without a firm understanding of the content and an inability to properly assess AI’s accuracy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s hard to notice what is real and what is fake, what is helpful and what is misguided,” Pilegard said. “When you have enough expertise in an area, it’s possible to use ChatGPT as a thinking tool because you can detect its shortcomings.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, Pilegard does believe AI can assist in learning. She likens the current situation with AI to the advent of statistical analysis software back in the 1970s, which eliminated the need to do calculations by hand.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At that time, many professors argued for the importance of students doing work manually to comprehend the foundations. However, these tools are now regularly used in the classroom with the acceptance and guidance of educators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>”I don’t want to be the stick in the mud in terms of artificial intelligence,” Pilegard said. “Maybe there are some things that aren’t important for students to be doing themselves. But when the thing you’re offloading onto the computer is building the connections that help you build expertise, you’re really missing an opportunity to be learning deeply.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This article featured reporting from the California Student Journalism Corps, EdSource’s journalism mentoring and support initiative.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "California Has 30 New Proposals to Rein in AI. Trump Could Complicate Them",
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"content": "\u003cp>AI can get rid of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12009822/stanford-ai-model-helps-locate-racist-deeds-in-santa-clara-county\">racist restrictions in housing covenants\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://lhc.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/Report285-Final.pdf\">help people access government benefits (PDF)\u003c/a>, or it can \u003ca href=\"https://www.statnews.com/2025/02/13/lawsuit-unitedhealth-artificial-intelligence-care-denials-medicare-advantage-moves-forward/\">deny people health care\u003c/a> or \u003ca href=\"https://themarkup.org/denied/2021/08/25/dozens-of-mortgage-lenders-showed-significant-disparities-here-are-the-worst\">a mortgage because of their race\u003c/a>. That’s why, last month, for the third year in a row, Democratic Assemblymember \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/legislators/rebecca-bauer-kahan-165035\">Rebecca Bauer-Kahan\u003c/a> of San Ramon \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260ab1018\">proposed a bill\u003c/a> to protect people from automated discrimination and AI that makes consequential decisions with the power to change a person’s life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If passed, Assembly Bill 1018 will require the makers of AI to evaluate how the tech performs before it’s used and to notify people before AI makes decisions about employment, education, housing, health care, finance, criminal sentencing, and access to government services. It would also give people the right to opt-out of AI use and appeal a decision made by an AI model.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This year, California lawmakers like Bauer-Kahan are surging forward with 30 bills to regulate how AI impacts individuals and society, and some of the most high profile efforts are ones that the lawmakers attempted last year only to see them vetoed by Gov. Gavin Newsom or fail to pass.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In addition to the bill that guards against automated discrimination, lawmakers will again consider other legislation to protect society from AI, including a bill that requires a human driver in commercial vehicles and a new version of a measure to previously intended compel companies to better examine whether AI can cause harm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The new wave of proposals follows a batch of \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/09/california-ai-safety-regulations-bills/\">more than 20 AI laws Newsom signed last year\u003c/a>, but they are moving forward in a very different political environment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last year, the Biden administration supported measures to protect people from bias and discrimination and \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/08/ai-safety-bill-california-legislature/\">major companies signed pledges to responsibly develop AI\u003c/a>, but today the White House under President Donald Trump opposes regulation and companies including Google are \u003ca href=\"https://blog.google/technology/ai/responsible-ai-2024-report-ongoing-work/\">rolling back their own responsible AI rules\u003c/a>. On his first day in office, Trump rescinded a \u003ca href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/joe-bidens-executive-order-ai-us-government-chatgpt/\">Biden executive order\u003c/a> intended to protect people and society from AI.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That dissonance could ultimately help the California lawmakers who want more AI protections. In a world of rapid-fire White House executive orders and chaotic, AI-driven decision-making by DOGE, there’s going to be more appetite for state lawmakers to regulate AI, said Stephan Aguilar, associate director of the Center for Generative AI and Society at the University of Southern California.[aside postID=news_12007087 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/09/GettyImages-2171266139-1020x680.jpg']“I think California in particular is in position to say, ‘Okay we need mitigants [\u003cem>sic\u003c/em>] in place now that folks are coming in with a wrecking ball,’” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bills will need to get through Newsom, who last year vetoed bills intended to protect people from \u003ca href=\"https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/30/24258349/california-governor-signs-veto-autonomous-vehicle-law\">self-driving trucks\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202320240ab2681\">weaponized robots\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202320240sb892\">set standards for AI contracts signed by state agencies\u003c/a>. Most notably, Newsom vetoed what was billed as the single-most comprehensive effort to regulate AI by compelling \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/08/ai-regulation-showdown/\">testing of AI models\u003c/a> to determine whether they would likely lead to mass death, endanger public infrastructure, or enable severe cyberattacks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom vetoed the self-driving trucks and AI testing bills in part on the grounds that the bills could hinder innovation. He then created an AI working group to balance innovation with guardrails. That group should \u003ca href=\"https://hai.stanford.edu/news/update-from-the-co-leads-of-the-joint-california-policy-working-group-on-ai-frontier-models\">release recommendations\u003c/a> about how to strike that balance in the coming weeks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Democratic Sen. Scott Wiener of San Francisco, who carried the prominent AI bill, \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260sb53\">reintroduced a version of that proposal last month\u003c/a>. Compared to last year, the bill is scaled back to protections for AI whistleblowers and establishment of a state cloud to enable research in the public interest. A \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/08/ai-regulation-showdown/\">former OpenAI employee who witnessed violation of internal safety policy told CalMatters\u003c/a> that whistleblower protections are needed to keep society safe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12031241\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1568px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12031241\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/042924-State-Capitol-Session-MG-CM-19-copy.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1568\" height=\"1045\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/042924-State-Capitol-Session-MG-CM-19-copy.jpg 1568w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/042924-State-Capitol-Session-MG-CM-19-copy-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/042924-State-Capitol-Session-MG-CM-19-copy-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/042924-State-Capitol-Session-MG-CM-19-copy-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/042924-State-Capitol-Session-MG-CM-19-copy-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1568px) 100vw, 1568px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Assemblymember Rebecca Bauer-Kahan speaks in support of SCR 135, which would designate May 6, 2024 as California Holocaust Memorial Day on the Assembly floor at the state Capitol in Sacramento on April 29, 2024. \u003ccite>(Miguel Gutierrez Jr./CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Bauer-Kahan was the first state lawmaker to propose legislation that contains the \u003ca href=\"https://bidenwhitehouse.archives.gov/ostp/ai-bill-of-rights/\">AI Bill of Rights,\u003c/a> a set of principles that the Biden administration and tech justice researchers called foundational to protecting people’s rights in the age of AI including the right to live free from discrimination, the right to know when AI makes important decisions about your life, and the right to know when an automated system is being used.\u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>It didn’t become law, but roughly a dozen states have passed or are considering similar bills, according to Consumer Reports.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a press conference to reintroduce her bill, Bauer-Kahan said the Trump administration’s stance on AI regulation changes “the dynamic for the states.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It is on us more,” she said, pointing to his repeal of \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/technology/artificial-intelligence/trump-revokes-biden-executive-order-addressing-ai-risks-2025-01-21/\">an executive order\u003c/a> influenced by the AI Bill of Rights and the stall of the AI Civil Rights Act in Congress.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>The tale of two administrations in Paris\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Dueling perspectives on how the U.S and the rest of the world should regulate AI were on display earlier this month in Paris at a summit attended by CEOs and heads of state.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In comments at a private “working dinner” hosted by President Emmanuel Macron at the Elysee Palace, alongside people like OpenAI CEO Sam Altman and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, AI Bill of Rights author and former director of the Office of Science and Technology Policy Alondra \u003ca href=\"https://www.techpolicy.press/three-fallacies-alondra-nelsons-remarks-at-elyse-palace-on-the-occasion-of-the-ai-action-summit/\">Nelson urged business and government leaders\u003c/a> to discard misconceptions about AI like that its purpose is scale and efficiency. AI can accelerate growth, but its purpose is to serve humanity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It is not inevitable that AI will lead to great public benefits,” she said in remarks at the event. “We can create systems that expand opportunity rather than concentrate power. We can build technology that strengthens democracy rather than undermines it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12031242\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1568px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12031242\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/062923_Artificial_Intelligence_AI_REUTERS_CM_02-copy.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1568\" height=\"1045\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/062923_Artificial_Intelligence_AI_REUTERS_CM_02-copy.jpg 1568w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/062923_Artificial_Intelligence_AI_REUTERS_CM_02-copy-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/062923_Artificial_Intelligence_AI_REUTERS_CM_02-copy-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/062923_Artificial_Intelligence_AI_REUTERS_CM_02-copy-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/062923_Artificial_Intelligence_AI_REUTERS_CM_02-copy-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1568px) 100vw, 1568px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Technology leaders attend a generative artificial intelligence meeting in San Francisco on June 29, 2023. \u003ccite>(Carlos Barria/Reuters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>By contrast, Vice President J.D. Vance at the same event said the United States will fight \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/paris-ai-summit-vance-1d7826affdcdb76c580c0558af8d68d2\">what he called excessive AI regulation\u003c/a>. The U.S. refused to sign an international declaration to “ensure AI is open, inclusive, transparent, ethical, safe, secure, and trustworthy.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Trump administration’s position that regulation is a threat to AI innovation mirrors the talking points of major companies such as\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/08/ai-regulation-showdown/\"> Google, Meta, and OpenAI\u003c/a> that lobbied against regulation last year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Debate about whether to regulate AI comes at a time when Elon Musk, President Trump, and a small group of technologists seek to build and use AI within numerous federal agencies to improve efficiency and save money.[aside postID=news_11947039 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/SurveillancePricingBillsgGetty.jpg']Those efforts risk cutting benefits to people who depend on them. A report released in late 2024 by California-based nonprofit TechTonic Justice found that AI influences government services \u003ca href=\"https://www.techtonicjustice.org/reports/inescapable-ai\">for tens of millions of lower-income Americans\u003c/a>, often cutting benefits they’re entitled to and making opportunities harder to access.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The majority of global venture capital investment and lots of talent and major companies are in the Bay Area, so California has more to gain or lose in regulatory debates than anywhere else in the world, said Matt Regan, a vice president for Bay Area Council, an advocacy group for more than 300 companies including tech giants Amazon, Apple, Google, Meta, and Microsoft. The Bay Area Council hasn’t taken a position on bills proposed in this session, but last year opposed Wiener’s AI testing proposal and the anti-discrimination bill proposed by Bauer-Kahan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Regan said California regulators have proposed “over engineered protections and audits” that make the technology functionally useless and hamper businesses. The business group Chamber of Progress estimates that compliance with anti-discrimination bills in California, Colorado, and Virginia, could cost businesses hundreds of millions of dollars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The political landscape has moved toward the center since California lawmakers proposed AI bills a year ago, which is why he thinks Assembly Speaker Robert Rivas urged his colleagues to \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/politics/2025/02/california-affordability-housing-costs-legislation/\">focus on pocketbook issues\u003c/a>. Due to those shifts, he thinks that in order for bills to avoid a veto like the kind that killed Wiener’s measure, Regan said lawmakers must draft bills that reach a “goldilocks zone,” balancing consumer protections with buy-in from business leaders. The forthcoming report from the working group convened by Gov. Newsom may offer tips on how to reach a goldilocks zone between making AI useful and punishing bad actors for abusing the technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>AI regulation with teeth\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>A 2024 \u003ca href=\"https://carnegieendowment.org/research/2024/10/2024-carnegie-california-global-affairs-survey?lang=en\">Carnegie California report\u003c/a> found that a majority of Californians support an international agreement on AI standards as a way to protect human rights. But virtually every international agreement signed by tech companies is voluntary or has no legally-binding bite, said David Evan Harris in a presentation at an\u003ca href=\"https://www.law.berkeley.edu/research/bclt/bcltevents/btlj-bclt-spring2025/\"> AI governance symposium held by UC Berkeley\u003c/a> earlier this month.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s why he encourages civil society groups who want to make change to speak with California lawmakers. Harris is on the advisory board member at the California Initiative for Technology and Democracy, a group that\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/09/california-ai-safety-regulations-bills/\"> cosponsored laws to protect people from deepfakes\u003c/a> that is getting\u003ca href=\"https://fortune.com/2024/09/19/california-deepfake-laws-challenged-court-creator-kamala-harris-parody-videos/\"> challenged in court\u003c/a> by Elon Musk’s company X, formerly Twitter. Previously he was part of responsible AI and civic integrity teams at Meta.[aside postID=news_12020857 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/10/241021-SFUSD-BREED-STATE-PRESSER-MD-09-KQED-1020x680.jpg']Last year he testified about AI 11 times in the California Legislature, and while he describes California as among the only places in the world where AI regulation is legally binding, he saw a frustrating pattern repeat itself: Lawmakers introduce AI bills, they get assigned to committees, and then “the bills get revised and completely rewritten by the tech companies.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A prime example of this, he said, comes from a bill that attempted to fine social media companies for harming children. When it was introduced it had bipartisan support, but tech companies opposed the bill, and it \u003ca href=\"https://www.politico.com/news/2024/08/30/california-bill-penalizing-social-media-harms-to-kids-is-shelved-00176892\">got weakened then shelved\u003c/a> in a committee hearing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The tech companies depend on nobody watching that happen,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lili Gangas is chief technology community officer at the Kapor Center, a nonprofit organization based in Oakland that focuses on issues at the intersection of equity and technology, and follows policy developments in California and Congress. Given our current political environment and the elimination of AI protections by the White House, Gangas thinks there may be more support for passage of anti-discrimination bills in California and public support for such protections may be on the rise. Still, she worries that it may be difficult to pass AI regulation because of stepped-up lobbying in Sacramento by tech companies that \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/politics/2024/02/california-lobbying-state-government/\">set a record last year\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She also questions whether \u003ca href=\"https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/03/scott-wiener-pelosi-elections-california-00161159\">politicians with ambitions for higher office\u003c/a> will put implementation ahead of drafting legislation that’s intended to bolster their careers. If lawmakers can overcome those challenges and keep costs low, she believes California can lead the way despite failures to do so by Congress and the Trump administration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think that [rescinded executive order and failure to pass a law in Congress] makes it even more important now at the California level,” she said. “We can hold the line, center civil rights protections, and give the attorney general and individuals the opportunity to take action.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12031243\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1568px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12031243\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/041922-ATTORNEY-GENERAL-OFFICE-MHN-03-CM-copy.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1568\" height=\"1045\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/041922-ATTORNEY-GENERAL-OFFICE-MHN-03-CM-copy.jpg 1568w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/041922-ATTORNEY-GENERAL-OFFICE-MHN-03-CM-copy-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/041922-ATTORNEY-GENERAL-OFFICE-MHN-03-CM-copy-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/041922-ATTORNEY-GENERAL-OFFICE-MHN-03-CM-copy-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/041922-ATTORNEY-GENERAL-OFFICE-MHN-03-CM-copy-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1568px) 100vw, 1568px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The seal above the offices of the California Department of Justice in Sacramento on April 19, 2022. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>States often pressure the federal government to protect people and their civil rights from emerging technology, said Alex Ault, policy counsel for the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law. The racial justice nonprofit endorsed the Eliminating Bias in Algorithmic Systems Act in 2023 and AI Civil Rights Act in 2024 in Congress, two bills with similar principles to the Blueprint for an AI Bill of Rights and the anti-discrimination bill proposed in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A \u003ca href=\"https://carnegieendowment.org/research/2024/10/2024-carnegie-california-global-affairs-survey?lang=en\">Carnegie California poll\u003c/a> of 1,500 people released last fall named \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/tag/artificial-intelligence/\">artificial intelligence\u003c/a> one of six major issues facing Californians alongside climate change and infectious disease. Half of respondents said they’re worried or pessimistic about AI and 35% percent say they’re optimistic or excited.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It would behoove state legislatures who are looking at what’s happening federally to say ‘Okay, what do we have control over?” Ault said. “How do we protect people’s rights?’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Unlike Wiener, Bauer-Kahan did not water down her vision for AI regulation. As chair of the consumer privacy and protection committee, she’s one of the most powerful regulators of technology in the California Legislature, but last year the bill faced opposition by tech companies like Google, Meta, and OpenAI as well as business interests in other industries like hospital administrators, real estate agents, and hotel owners. After getting amended to focus on employment only, Bauer-Kahan chose to hold the bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“While we had the votes for passage, getting the policy right is priority one,” she said in a statement last year. “This remains a critical issue and one I refuse to let California get wrong.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>AI can get rid of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12009822/stanford-ai-model-helps-locate-racist-deeds-in-santa-clara-county\">racist restrictions in housing covenants\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://lhc.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/Report285-Final.pdf\">help people access government benefits (PDF)\u003c/a>, or it can \u003ca href=\"https://www.statnews.com/2025/02/13/lawsuit-unitedhealth-artificial-intelligence-care-denials-medicare-advantage-moves-forward/\">deny people health care\u003c/a> or \u003ca href=\"https://themarkup.org/denied/2021/08/25/dozens-of-mortgage-lenders-showed-significant-disparities-here-are-the-worst\">a mortgage because of their race\u003c/a>. That’s why, last month, for the third year in a row, Democratic Assemblymember \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/legislators/rebecca-bauer-kahan-165035\">Rebecca Bauer-Kahan\u003c/a> of San Ramon \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260ab1018\">proposed a bill\u003c/a> to protect people from automated discrimination and AI that makes consequential decisions with the power to change a person’s life.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If passed, Assembly Bill 1018 will require the makers of AI to evaluate how the tech performs before it’s used and to notify people before AI makes decisions about employment, education, housing, health care, finance, criminal sentencing, and access to government services. It would also give people the right to opt-out of AI use and appeal a decision made by an AI model.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This year, California lawmakers like Bauer-Kahan are surging forward with 30 bills to regulate how AI impacts individuals and society, and some of the most high profile efforts are ones that the lawmakers attempted last year only to see them vetoed by Gov. Gavin Newsom or fail to pass.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In addition to the bill that guards against automated discrimination, lawmakers will again consider other legislation to protect society from AI, including a bill that requires a human driver in commercial vehicles and a new version of a measure to previously intended compel companies to better examine whether AI can cause harm.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The new wave of proposals follows a batch of \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/09/california-ai-safety-regulations-bills/\">more than 20 AI laws Newsom signed last year\u003c/a>, but they are moving forward in a very different political environment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last year, the Biden administration supported measures to protect people from bias and discrimination and \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/08/ai-safety-bill-california-legislature/\">major companies signed pledges to responsibly develop AI\u003c/a>, but today the White House under President Donald Trump opposes regulation and companies including Google are \u003ca href=\"https://blog.google/technology/ai/responsible-ai-2024-report-ongoing-work/\">rolling back their own responsible AI rules\u003c/a>. On his first day in office, Trump rescinded a \u003ca href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/joe-bidens-executive-order-ai-us-government-chatgpt/\">Biden executive order\u003c/a> intended to protect people and society from AI.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That dissonance could ultimately help the California lawmakers who want more AI protections. In a world of rapid-fire White House executive orders and chaotic, AI-driven decision-making by DOGE, there’s going to be more appetite for state lawmakers to regulate AI, said Stephan Aguilar, associate director of the Center for Generative AI and Society at the University of Southern California.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“I think California in particular is in position to say, ‘Okay we need mitigants [\u003cem>sic\u003c/em>] in place now that folks are coming in with a wrecking ball,’” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bills will need to get through Newsom, who last year vetoed bills intended to protect people from \u003ca href=\"https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/30/24258349/california-governor-signs-veto-autonomous-vehicle-law\">self-driving trucks\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202320240ab2681\">weaponized robots\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202320240sb892\">set standards for AI contracts signed by state agencies\u003c/a>. Most notably, Newsom vetoed what was billed as the single-most comprehensive effort to regulate AI by compelling \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/08/ai-regulation-showdown/\">testing of AI models\u003c/a> to determine whether they would likely lead to mass death, endanger public infrastructure, or enable severe cyberattacks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Newsom vetoed the self-driving trucks and AI testing bills in part on the grounds that the bills could hinder innovation. He then created an AI working group to balance innovation with guardrails. That group should \u003ca href=\"https://hai.stanford.edu/news/update-from-the-co-leads-of-the-joint-california-policy-working-group-on-ai-frontier-models\">release recommendations\u003c/a> about how to strike that balance in the coming weeks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Democratic Sen. Scott Wiener of San Francisco, who carried the prominent AI bill, \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260sb53\">reintroduced a version of that proposal last month\u003c/a>. Compared to last year, the bill is scaled back to protections for AI whistleblowers and establishment of a state cloud to enable research in the public interest. A \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/08/ai-regulation-showdown/\">former OpenAI employee who witnessed violation of internal safety policy told CalMatters\u003c/a> that whistleblower protections are needed to keep society safe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12031241\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1568px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12031241\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/042924-State-Capitol-Session-MG-CM-19-copy.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1568\" height=\"1045\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/042924-State-Capitol-Session-MG-CM-19-copy.jpg 1568w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/042924-State-Capitol-Session-MG-CM-19-copy-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/042924-State-Capitol-Session-MG-CM-19-copy-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/042924-State-Capitol-Session-MG-CM-19-copy-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/042924-State-Capitol-Session-MG-CM-19-copy-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1568px) 100vw, 1568px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Assemblymember Rebecca Bauer-Kahan speaks in support of SCR 135, which would designate May 6, 2024 as California Holocaust Memorial Day on the Assembly floor at the state Capitol in Sacramento on April 29, 2024. \u003ccite>(Miguel Gutierrez Jr./CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Bauer-Kahan was the first state lawmaker to propose legislation that contains the \u003ca href=\"https://bidenwhitehouse.archives.gov/ostp/ai-bill-of-rights/\">AI Bill of Rights,\u003c/a> a set of principles that the Biden administration and tech justice researchers called foundational to protecting people’s rights in the age of AI including the right to live free from discrimination, the right to know when AI makes important decisions about your life, and the right to know when an automated system is being used.\u003cstrong> \u003c/strong>It didn’t become law, but roughly a dozen states have passed or are considering similar bills, according to Consumer Reports.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a press conference to reintroduce her bill, Bauer-Kahan said the Trump administration’s stance on AI regulation changes “the dynamic for the states.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It is on us more,” she said, pointing to his repeal of \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/technology/artificial-intelligence/trump-revokes-biden-executive-order-addressing-ai-risks-2025-01-21/\">an executive order\u003c/a> influenced by the AI Bill of Rights and the stall of the AI Civil Rights Act in Congress.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>The tale of two administrations in Paris\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Dueling perspectives on how the U.S and the rest of the world should regulate AI were on display earlier this month in Paris at a summit attended by CEOs and heads of state.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In comments at a private “working dinner” hosted by President Emmanuel Macron at the Elysee Palace, alongside people like OpenAI CEO Sam Altman and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, AI Bill of Rights author and former director of the Office of Science and Technology Policy Alondra \u003ca href=\"https://www.techpolicy.press/three-fallacies-alondra-nelsons-remarks-at-elyse-palace-on-the-occasion-of-the-ai-action-summit/\">Nelson urged business and government leaders\u003c/a> to discard misconceptions about AI like that its purpose is scale and efficiency. AI can accelerate growth, but its purpose is to serve humanity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It is not inevitable that AI will lead to great public benefits,” she said in remarks at the event. “We can create systems that expand opportunity rather than concentrate power. We can build technology that strengthens democracy rather than undermines it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12031242\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1568px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12031242\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/062923_Artificial_Intelligence_AI_REUTERS_CM_02-copy.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1568\" height=\"1045\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/062923_Artificial_Intelligence_AI_REUTERS_CM_02-copy.jpg 1568w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/062923_Artificial_Intelligence_AI_REUTERS_CM_02-copy-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/062923_Artificial_Intelligence_AI_REUTERS_CM_02-copy-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/062923_Artificial_Intelligence_AI_REUTERS_CM_02-copy-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/062923_Artificial_Intelligence_AI_REUTERS_CM_02-copy-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1568px) 100vw, 1568px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Technology leaders attend a generative artificial intelligence meeting in San Francisco on June 29, 2023. \u003ccite>(Carlos Barria/Reuters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>By contrast, Vice President J.D. Vance at the same event said the United States will fight \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/paris-ai-summit-vance-1d7826affdcdb76c580c0558af8d68d2\">what he called excessive AI regulation\u003c/a>. The U.S. refused to sign an international declaration to “ensure AI is open, inclusive, transparent, ethical, safe, secure, and trustworthy.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Trump administration’s position that regulation is a threat to AI innovation mirrors the talking points of major companies such as\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/08/ai-regulation-showdown/\"> Google, Meta, and OpenAI\u003c/a> that lobbied against regulation last year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Debate about whether to regulate AI comes at a time when Elon Musk, President Trump, and a small group of technologists seek to build and use AI within numerous federal agencies to improve efficiency and save money.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Those efforts risk cutting benefits to people who depend on them. A report released in late 2024 by California-based nonprofit TechTonic Justice found that AI influences government services \u003ca href=\"https://www.techtonicjustice.org/reports/inescapable-ai\">for tens of millions of lower-income Americans\u003c/a>, often cutting benefits they’re entitled to and making opportunities harder to access.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The majority of global venture capital investment and lots of talent and major companies are in the Bay Area, so California has more to gain or lose in regulatory debates than anywhere else in the world, said Matt Regan, a vice president for Bay Area Council, an advocacy group for more than 300 companies including tech giants Amazon, Apple, Google, Meta, and Microsoft. The Bay Area Council hasn’t taken a position on bills proposed in this session, but last year opposed Wiener’s AI testing proposal and the anti-discrimination bill proposed by Bauer-Kahan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Regan said California regulators have proposed “over engineered protections and audits” that make the technology functionally useless and hamper businesses. The business group Chamber of Progress estimates that compliance with anti-discrimination bills in California, Colorado, and Virginia, could cost businesses hundreds of millions of dollars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The political landscape has moved toward the center since California lawmakers proposed AI bills a year ago, which is why he thinks Assembly Speaker Robert Rivas urged his colleagues to \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/politics/2025/02/california-affordability-housing-costs-legislation/\">focus on pocketbook issues\u003c/a>. Due to those shifts, he thinks that in order for bills to avoid a veto like the kind that killed Wiener’s measure, Regan said lawmakers must draft bills that reach a “goldilocks zone,” balancing consumer protections with buy-in from business leaders. The forthcoming report from the working group convened by Gov. Newsom may offer tips on how to reach a goldilocks zone between making AI useful and punishing bad actors for abusing the technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>AI regulation with teeth\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>A 2024 \u003ca href=\"https://carnegieendowment.org/research/2024/10/2024-carnegie-california-global-affairs-survey?lang=en\">Carnegie California report\u003c/a> found that a majority of Californians support an international agreement on AI standards as a way to protect human rights. But virtually every international agreement signed by tech companies is voluntary or has no legally-binding bite, said David Evan Harris in a presentation at an\u003ca href=\"https://www.law.berkeley.edu/research/bclt/bcltevents/btlj-bclt-spring2025/\"> AI governance symposium held by UC Berkeley\u003c/a> earlier this month.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That’s why he encourages civil society groups who want to make change to speak with California lawmakers. Harris is on the advisory board member at the California Initiative for Technology and Democracy, a group that\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/09/california-ai-safety-regulations-bills/\"> cosponsored laws to protect people from deepfakes\u003c/a> that is getting\u003ca href=\"https://fortune.com/2024/09/19/california-deepfake-laws-challenged-court-creator-kamala-harris-parody-videos/\"> challenged in court\u003c/a> by Elon Musk’s company X, formerly Twitter. Previously he was part of responsible AI and civic integrity teams at Meta.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Last year he testified about AI 11 times in the California Legislature, and while he describes California as among the only places in the world where AI regulation is legally binding, he saw a frustrating pattern repeat itself: Lawmakers introduce AI bills, they get assigned to committees, and then “the bills get revised and completely rewritten by the tech companies.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A prime example of this, he said, comes from a bill that attempted to fine social media companies for harming children. When it was introduced it had bipartisan support, but tech companies opposed the bill, and it \u003ca href=\"https://www.politico.com/news/2024/08/30/california-bill-penalizing-social-media-harms-to-kids-is-shelved-00176892\">got weakened then shelved\u003c/a> in a committee hearing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The tech companies depend on nobody watching that happen,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Lili Gangas is chief technology community officer at the Kapor Center, a nonprofit organization based in Oakland that focuses on issues at the intersection of equity and technology, and follows policy developments in California and Congress. Given our current political environment and the elimination of AI protections by the White House, Gangas thinks there may be more support for passage of anti-discrimination bills in California and public support for such protections may be on the rise. Still, she worries that it may be difficult to pass AI regulation because of stepped-up lobbying in Sacramento by tech companies that \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/politics/2024/02/california-lobbying-state-government/\">set a record last year\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She also questions whether \u003ca href=\"https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/03/scott-wiener-pelosi-elections-california-00161159\">politicians with ambitions for higher office\u003c/a> will put implementation ahead of drafting legislation that’s intended to bolster their careers. If lawmakers can overcome those challenges and keep costs low, she believes California can lead the way despite failures to do so by Congress and the Trump administration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I think that [rescinded executive order and failure to pass a law in Congress] makes it even more important now at the California level,” she said. “We can hold the line, center civil rights protections, and give the attorney general and individuals the opportunity to take action.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12031243\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1568px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12031243\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/041922-ATTORNEY-GENERAL-OFFICE-MHN-03-CM-copy.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1568\" height=\"1045\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/041922-ATTORNEY-GENERAL-OFFICE-MHN-03-CM-copy.jpg 1568w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/041922-ATTORNEY-GENERAL-OFFICE-MHN-03-CM-copy-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/041922-ATTORNEY-GENERAL-OFFICE-MHN-03-CM-copy-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/041922-ATTORNEY-GENERAL-OFFICE-MHN-03-CM-copy-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/041922-ATTORNEY-GENERAL-OFFICE-MHN-03-CM-copy-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1568px) 100vw, 1568px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The seal above the offices of the California Department of Justice in Sacramento on April 19, 2022. \u003ccite>(Martin do Nascimento/CalMatters)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>States often pressure the federal government to protect people and their civil rights from emerging technology, said Alex Ault, policy counsel for the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law. The racial justice nonprofit endorsed the Eliminating Bias in Algorithmic Systems Act in 2023 and AI Civil Rights Act in 2024 in Congress, two bills with similar principles to the Blueprint for an AI Bill of Rights and the anti-discrimination bill proposed in California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A \u003ca href=\"https://carnegieendowment.org/research/2024/10/2024-carnegie-california-global-affairs-survey?lang=en\">Carnegie California poll\u003c/a> of 1,500 people released last fall named \u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.org/tag/artificial-intelligence/\">artificial intelligence\u003c/a> one of six major issues facing Californians alongside climate change and infectious disease. Half of respondents said they’re worried or pessimistic about AI and 35% percent say they’re optimistic or excited.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It would behoove state legislatures who are looking at what’s happening federally to say ‘Okay, what do we have control over?” Ault said. “How do we protect people’s rights?’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Unlike Wiener, Bauer-Kahan did not water down her vision for AI regulation. As chair of the consumer privacy and protection committee, she’s one of the most powerful regulators of technology in the California Legislature, but last year the bill faced opposition by tech companies like Google, Meta, and OpenAI as well as business interests in other industries like hospital administrators, real estate agents, and hotel owners. After getting amended to focus on employment only, Bauer-Kahan chose to hold the bill.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“While we had the votes for passage, getting the policy right is priority one,” she said in a statement last year. “This remains a critical issue and one I refuse to let California get wrong.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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},
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"id": "city-arts",
"title": "City Arts & Lectures",
"info": "A one-hour radio program to hear celebrated writers, artists and thinkers address contemporary ideas and values, often discussing the creative process. Please note: tapes or transcripts are not available",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/05/cityartsandlecture-300x300.jpg",
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"airtime": "SUN 1pm-2pm, TUE 10pm, WED 1am",
"meta": {
"site": "news",
"source": "City Arts & Lectures"
},
"link": "https://www.cityarts.net",
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"rss": "https://www.cityarts.net/feed/"
}
},
"closealltabs": {
"id": "closealltabs",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/closealltabs",
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"order": 1
},
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"id": "code-switch-life-kit",
"title": "Code Switch / Life Kit",
"info": "\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em>, which listeners will hear in the first part of the hour, has fearless and much-needed conversations about race. Hosted by journalists of color, the show tackles the subject of race head-on, exploring how it impacts every part of society — from politics and pop culture to history, sports and more.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em>, which will be in the second part of the hour, guides you through spaces and feelings no one prepares you for — from finances to mental health, from workplace microaggressions to imposter syndrome, from relationships to parenting. The show features experts with real world experience and shares their knowledge. Because everyone needs a little help being human.\u003cbr />\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510312/codeswitch\">\u003cem>Code Switch\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/lifekit\">\u003cem>Life Kit\u003c/em> offical site and podcast\u003c/a>\u003cbr />",
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"id": "commonwealth-club",
"title": "Commonwealth Club of California Podcast",
"info": "The Commonwealth Club of California is the nation's oldest and largest public affairs forum. As a non-partisan forum, The Club brings to the public airwaves diverse viewpoints on important topics. The Club's weekly radio broadcast - the oldest in the U.S., dating back to 1924 - is carried across the nation on public radio stations and is now podcasting. Our website archive features audio of our recent programs, as well as selected speeches from our long and distinguished history. This podcast feed is usually updated twice a week and is always un-edited.",
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"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Commonwealth-Club-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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"source": "Commonwealth Club of California"
},
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5jb21tb253ZWFsdGhjbHViLm9yZy9hdWRpby9wb2RjYXN0L3dlZWtseS54bWw",
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"id": "forum",
"title": "Forum",
"tagline": "The conversation starts here",
"info": "KQED’s live call-in program discussing local, state, national and international issues, as well as in-depth interviews.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 9am-11am, 10pm-11pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Forum-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 9
},
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM5NTU3MzgxNjMz",
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"airtime": "SUN 1am-2am, SAT 3pm-4pm",
"meta": {
"site": "radio",
"source": "WNYC"
},
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"subscribe": {
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/freakonomics-radio/id354668519",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/podcasts/WNYC-Podcasts/Freakonomics-Radio-p272293/",
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},
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"id": "fresh-air",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=214089682&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
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"info": "A live production of NPR and WBUR Boston, in collaboration with stations across the country, Here & Now reflects the fluid world of news as it's happening in the middle of the day, with timely, in-depth news, interviews and conversation. Hosted by Robin Young, Jeremy Hobson and Tonya Mosley.",
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},
"hidden-brain": {
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"info": "Shankar Vedantam uses science and storytelling to reveal the unconscious patterns that drive human behavior, shape our choices and direct our relationships.",
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"airtime": "SUN 7pm-8pm",
"meta": {
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"source": "NPR"
},
"link": "/radio/program/hidden-brain",
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"how-i-built-this": {
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"title": "How I Built This with Guy Raz",
"info": "Guy Raz dives into the stories behind some of the world's best known companies. How I Built This weaves a narrative journey about innovators, entrepreneurs and idealists—and the movements they built.",
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"airtime": "SUN 7:30pm-8pm",
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"link": "/radio/program/how-i-built-this",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-built-this-with-guy-raz/id1150510297?mt=2",
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"hyphenacion": {
"id": "hyphenacion",
"title": "Hyphenación",
"tagline": "Where conversation and cultura meet",
"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/Hyphenacion_FinalAssets_PodcastTile.png",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/hyphenacion",
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"order": 15
},
"link": "/podcasts/hyphenacion",
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"spotify": "https://open.spotify.com/show/2p3Fifq96nw9BPcmFdIq0o?si=39209f7b25774f38",
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},
"jerrybrown": {
"id": "jerrybrown",
"title": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown",
"tagline": "Lessons from a lifetime in politics",
"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game – and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-Political-Mind-of-Jerry-Brown-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/jerrybrown",
"meta": {
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"order": 18
},
"link": "/podcasts/jerrybrown",
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},
"latino-usa": {
"id": "latino-usa",
"title": "Latino USA",
"airtime": "MON 1am-2am, SUN 6pm-7pm",
"info": "Latino USA, the radio journal of news and culture, is the only national, English-language radio program produced from a Latino perspective.",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/latinoUsa.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "http://latinousa.org/",
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},
"link": "/radio/program/latino-usa",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?s=143441&mt=2&id=79681317&at=11l79Y&ct=nprdirectory",
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"rss": "https://feeds.npr.org/510016/podcast.xml"
}
},
"marketplace": {
"id": "marketplace",
"title": "Marketplace",
"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 4pm-4:30pm, MON-WED 6:30pm-7pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Marketplace-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.marketplace.org/",
"meta": {
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"source": "American Public Media"
},
"link": "/radio/program/marketplace",
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},
"masters-of-scale": {
"id": "masters-of-scale",
"title": "Masters of Scale",
"info": "Masters of Scale is an original podcast in which LinkedIn co-founder and Greylock Partner Reid Hoffman sets out to describe and prove theories that explain how great entrepreneurs take their companies from zero to a gazillion in ingenious fashion.",
"airtime": "Every other Wednesday June 12 through October 16 at 8pm (repeats Thursdays at 2am)",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "https://mastersofscale.com/",
"meta": {
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"source": "WaitWhat"
},
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"apple": "http://mastersofscale.app.link/",
"rss": "https://rss.art19.com/masters-of-scale"
}
},
"mindshift": {
"id": "mindshift",
"title": "MindShift",
"tagline": "A podcast about the future of learning and how we raise our kids",
"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
"imageAlt": "KQED MindShift: How We Will Learn",
"officialWebsiteLink": "/mindshift/",
"meta": {
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 12
},
"link": "/podcasts/mindshift",
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5",
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}
},
"morning-edition": {
"id": "morning-edition",
"title": "Morning Edition",
"info": "\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. Hosts Steve Inskeep, David Greene and Rachel Martin bring you the latest breaking news and features to prepare you for the day.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 3am-9am",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Morning-Edition-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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"link": "/radio/program/morning-edition"
},
"onourwatch": {
"id": "onourwatch",
"title": "On Our Watch",
"tagline": "Deeply-reported investigative journalism",
"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/On-Our-Watch-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/podcasts/onourwatch",
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 11
},
"link": "/podcasts/onourwatch",
"subscribe": {
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"google": "https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5ucHIub3JnLzUxMDM2MC9wb2RjYXN0LnhtbD9zYz1nb29nbGVwb2RjYXN0cw",
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},
"on-the-media": {
"id": "on-the-media",
"title": "On The Media",
"info": "Our weekly podcast explores how the media 'sausage' is made, casts an incisive eye on fluctuations in the marketplace of ideas, and examines threats to the freedom of information and expression in America and abroad. For one hour a week, the show tries to lift the veil from the process of \"making media,\" especially news media, because it's through that lens that we see the world and the world sees us",
"airtime": "SUN 2pm-3pm, MON 12am-1am",
"imageSrc": "https://ww2.kqed.org/radio/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/04/onTheMedia.png",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/otm",
"meta": {
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"source": "wnyc"
},
"link": "/radio/program/on-the-media",
"subscribe": {
"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/on-the-media/id73330715?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/On-the-Media-p69/",
"rss": "http://feeds.wnyc.org/onthemedia"
}
},
"pbs-newshour": {
"id": "pbs-newshour",
"title": "PBS NewsHour",
"info": "Analysis, background reports and updates from the PBS NewsHour putting today's news in context.",
"airtime": "MON-FRI 3pm-4pm",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/PBS-News-Hour-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.pbs.org/newshour/",
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},
"link": "/radio/program/pbs-newshour",
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"apple": "https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/pbs-newshour-full-show/id394432287?mt=2",
"tuneIn": "https://tunein.com/radio/PBS-NewsHour---Full-Show-p425698/",
"rss": "https://www.pbs.org/newshour/feeds/rss/podcasts/show"
}
},
"perspectives": {
"id": "perspectives",
"title": "Perspectives",
"tagline": "KQED's series of daily listener commentaries since 1991",
"info": "KQED's series of daily listener commentaries since 1991.",
"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Perspectives_Tile_Final.jpg",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "/perspectives/",
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"source": "kqed",
"order": 14
},
"link": "/perspectives",
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