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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Are you old enough to remember the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://eyeondesign.aiga.org/the-hidden-history-of-magic-eye-the-optical-illusion-that-briefly-took-over-the-world/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Magic Eye” optical illusion mania\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> that gripped the nation in the 90’s—random patterns that you had to squint at just right for the 3D image to pop out? It turns out it’s not just our eyes that can be fooled. Our \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">ears\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> can play tricks on us too. There’s a whole world of auditory illusions that seem to say one thing when they’re really saying something else, and that matters, especially in our age of digital misinformation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In today’s episode, Morgan talks to KQED Digital Community Producer Francesca Fenzi about why we hear what we \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">think \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">we hear, and how understanding the limits of our perception might actually make us better at spotting dis- and misinformation online.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7508034216\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Guest:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Francesa Fenzi, KQED Digital Community Producer \u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\">Follow us on Instagram\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> \u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My colleague \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Francesca Fenzi\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, digital community producer at KQED, spends a lot of time online. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m on KQED’s Discord server, on Reddit, all the various chat threads and usual places. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After President Trump was sworn into office earlier this year, she noticed a new wave of viral content about him and his administration. There were clips claiming all kinds of things. One of these viral clips shows Musk and his son, X, during a visit to the White House. X was four at the time. While Musk speaks to the press, X runs around the Oval Office and makes his way the president’s desk. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At one point, he peels off and he makes a side comment to President Trump. This is all happening while Elon Musk is speaking, so it’s very hard to hear what he’s saying. But a lot of people started interpreting what the boy was saying as saying, “You’re not the president and you need to go away,” to Donald Trump. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Elon Musk: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Part of the presidency is to restore, is to restore democracy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Again, X is very young. This was a four-year-old babbling at the president. Another moment from the same meeting seems to show X telling the president to, “shush his mouth.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Elon Musk: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taxes from one year to the next are the same. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I did watch this clip. It does seem like he might have said something like this, but my audio producer brain also lit up right away because I can tell you that that clip was not clear. It was not the kind of thing that you can clean up in post. So when people started quoting this as fact, as something that was happening, my interest was piqued. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The whole thing set Francesca down a research rabbit hole, which — relatable. This clip felt different from other pieces of viral misinformation she’d seen online. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ve been really focused on AI’s potential to spread false information and how it can trick people into believing things that never actually happened. But even without AI, our senses can be fooled the old fashioned way. And what I was interested in in this situation was just trying to understand how our brains process what we see and hear and how those senses can be manipulated, not by AI, but just by old fashioned audio and video tricks. And so my research spiral, led me to this whole world of auditory illusions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Remember those Magic Eye posters? They were those optical illusions that looked like random patterns until you unfocused your eyes just right and a hidden image popped out. Well, it turns out it’s not just our eyes that can be fooled. Our ears can play tricks on us too. There’s a whole world of auditory illusions that seem to say one thing when they’re really saying something else. And that matters, especially in an age of misinformation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In today’s episode, we’re looking at some phenomena that can completely change what we think we hear. And we explore how understanding the limits of our perception might actually make us better at spotting disinformation online. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Close All Tabs. I’m Morgan Sung, tech journalist, and your chronically online friend, here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Let’s get into it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so we’re gonna start with something that feels super commonplace, but might not be as reliable as we think. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">New tab. Can we trust lip reading? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so in this video with Elon Musk’s son and President Trump, a lot of people were really relying on a combination of very poor audio and lip reading to decipher what he was saying. So let’s start with lip reading. Francesca, how reliable is it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, it’s estimated that only 30 to 40% of speech can actually be lip read, and that’s even under the best conditions. Lip reading is a really useful tool for people who are hard of hearing because it helps to piece together context around other pieces of information, right? Like partial audio or even like hand movements in sign language. So some lip readings seem really good when we think that we have the context associated with them. One example of that is there’s a TikTok creator who I really like, her handle is “It’s Jackie G”, and she interprets celebrity red carpet moments. So she’ll take moments of celebrities being recorded and will lip read the conversation that’s too far away from the camera for us to be able to hear accurately. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s Jackie G, lip reading Zendaya at this year’s Met Gala. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jackie G: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She’s so fab. So fabulous. I love it. It’s so funny because she’s, I would say when we, when it cuts off. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The reason that those work is because as a fan of a certain kind of celebrity, you are probably a little bit aware of how they feel about the movie that they’re promoting or their relationship to other stars who they might be interacting with, and they seem really plausible because of that. But the more removed lip reading is from its context, the less you understand about the true nature of the relationship of the speakers, the more likely you are to be misled. That’s part of what makes the YouTube series Bad Lip Reading so possible and successful. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bad Lip Reading is a YouTube channel that intentionally misinterprets what people are saying in movies or TV shows and then voices them over. Like this scene from Star Wars, a conversation between Obi-Wan Kenobi and some stormtroopers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Stormtrooper: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey guys, we’re collecting donations for the Jawa Orphanage. Do you have any spare change? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Obi-Wan Kenobi: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey, you should know that you stink kinda like fish. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Stormtrooper: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wait, what? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Obi-Wan Kenobi: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Everyone knows it except for you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re removing context from the audio that you’re hearing and you’re replacing the story with sound that maybe mirrors some lip movements but is totally nonsensical to the scenario. And that’s the source of the humor in those videos. I spoke to Nicholas Davidenko, who’s a researcher at the High Level Perceptions Lab at UC Santa Cruz. He studies auditory illusions and I asked him why bad lip reading videos look so convincing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nicolas Davidenko: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The reason they work so well is because lip reading is a much more ambiguous cue. So there’s actually a lot of words that could fit the shapes of my lips as I talk. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Davidenko studies this type of phenomena in his lab. He’s been researching how to help people with something called misophonia. That is when you have an extreme negative reaction to certain sounds. There’s some sounds that all of us find a little bit unpleasant, but these are folks who have a really extreme triggered reaction to sounds like chewing or teeth mashing. Those are some common ones. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And Davidenko found that you can actually pair a different kind of video with the audio that would normally trigger misophonia for somebody. So for example, if the sound that triggers you is that sound of chewing, you can replace an image of somebody chewing with another plausible sound source. In his lab, they use an example of somebody stepping on leaves to kind of mimic that crunching sound that might originate with chewing on food. And by swapping that image out, people start to interpret that sound differently. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nicolas Davidenko: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If the visual signal is telling you something, you trust it more than the auditory signal and when there’s a conflict, you tend to go with whatever visual system is telling you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Got it. So the thing we’re seeing with our eyes is overruling what we’re hearing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that’s because of something called the McGurk Effect. There was this famous study in 1976, McGurk and McDonald, and what they found was that what we see can actually change what we can hear. In fact, I’m gonna demonstrate. Can I play you a video, Morgan? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Please do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m going to play you clip, and in this first one, I just want to hear what sound you hear. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>McGurk Video: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bah bah bah \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a close-up of a person’s mouth. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>McGurk Video: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bah bah bah \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so I’m hearing bah with a B, like baby. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, yeah, that’s right. Okay, so now I’m gonna play you a different clip and tell me this time what you hear. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>McGurk Video: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bah, bah, bah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, now I’m hearing fa, like with an F, like fabulous. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right. So it’s actually the exact same audio. So if you were listening and you heard exactly the same thing both times, you’re not crazy. Morgan’s being tricked. The audio… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That is wild. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, it’s crazy, right? It happened to me too the first time I watched this. The audio is actually exactly the same, but what listeners aren’t getting in this case that you are is the lip motion is different from one to the next, and that’s actually changing the that you’re hearing the audio. So when you see that B shape being made with the mouth, you hear “ba,” and when you see that F shape being with the mouth, you’re actually hearing it like “fa.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right, like I saw the person’s bottom lip hit their teeth. It’s like, yeah, that’s an F shape. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s the effect that bad lip readings take advantage of, is they’re taking those lip shapes with plausible sounds and they’re kind of swapping them for things that are similar phonetically. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So experiencing the McGurk effect in a bad lip reading video is pretty funny, but I can imagine that if this falls into the wrong hands it can go very poorly? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For sure. Something else that Davidenko explained is that we can be misled by someone telling us what to hear or see ahead of time. That’s kind of playing into this idea that contextualizing those clips changed the way we hear it too. So it’s not just the McGurk effect, it’s also the expectation we have coming into a video. In this case, Davidenko also worked on an experiment in his lab called Mind Controlled Motion. That is how he named it, Mind Controlled Motion. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In that experiment, what researchers did is they showed people a set of randomly refreshing images that were just pixels on a screen. So they’re just truly randomly refreshing pixels popping up and disappearing. There’s no logical motion behind them. But when researchers said something like, “left, right, left, right,” or “up, down, up, down,” over and over, when people viewed these images, then people were actually seeing the motion that they were told to see. And he said that there was a 90% compliance rate, meaning like 90% of the people who watched these and got those prompts saw the motion that they are being told to. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, this really makes me think of those like kind of rage bait body language reading videos that we always see online. Like an infamous example is Couch Guy, where a girl walked into her long distance boyfriend’s apartment and he just didn’t seem as excited to see her as people thought he should have been. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Couch Guy Commenter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right, there his arm goes to the side of his pants, grabs his phone from old girl, acts like he’s laughing to pull it up through the middle and then boop, there went her hand. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And some people were like, no, that’s a totally normal reaction. Like, look at his body language. He’s just surprised. Well, as other people were, like, this is, like he hates her. Look at his, body language. Does this explain, like why people see completely different things in the same viral videos? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It doesn’t have to be a deep fake to be misleading. It can be a real situation that really happened. But how something is presented has a lot to do with influencing our perception of the relationship of the before and after that surround that moment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so when I’m watching something and also listening to it at the same time, it’s like, “yeah, my eyes can deceive me,” but at least audio on its own is safe, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, unfortunately, not exactly. Morgan, do you remember the whole Laurel, Yanny thing that broke the internet a few years ago? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It feels like a lifetime ago. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, it was like the dress, but for your ears. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And we’re going to hear about that after this break. Okay, welcome back. Time to open a new tab. Can people hear different things in the same audio? So I remember this whole Laurel versus Yanny thing back in 2018, feels like forever ago in internet time. So can you remind us what it was all about? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, so this actually started with a group of high school students who were studying vocabulary words for their English class. They were on vocabulary.com and they were sending recordings of different words to each other on Instagram and they discovered that when they recorded one word, they were hearing totally different things one person to the next. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So some people were hearing the word Laurel and others were hearing the word Yanny, which are so different that it kind of kicked off this debate in their friend group. And then eventually someone posted to Reddit and Stranger started weighing in as well. And it became this divisive litmus test of sorts where people were hearing either Laurel or Yanny and then being fiercely adamant that it was not the other. Actually, I’m gonna play the clip for you now. I wanna hear what you hear in this. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Laurel vs Yanny: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Laurel, laurel laurel, laurel, laurel. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know what’s crazy? When I first heard this, um, what was this, like seven years ago in 2018, I swore it was saying Yanny. And now… I’m hearing Laurel.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, I think I may have an explanation for that. I hear Laurel too, and the unflattering reason behind that, or one of the theories, is that it may be related to our age. So I hate to tell you, but I think you’ve arrived in Millennialville. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s time. It’s coming for us all. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So when this was first circulating, the New York Times and Wired and a bunch of other news outlets took it super seriously getting to the bottom of what was happening. And the New York Times actually created this tool to help people hear both sides. So if you only heard one or the other in this clip, I can play a clip of audio that shows you what it should sound like moving from the Laurel to Yanny spectrum. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Laurel vs Yanny: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Laurel, laurel, laurel, laurel, yanny, yanny, yanny, yanny, yanny. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, I was hearing like hints of Yanny. It was so weird. It was like my brain was fighting the Yanny. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, it feels like it’s like fighting to come to the surface. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But eventually like it kicks over. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Exactly! So there’s some actual science behind why some people hear Laurel and others hear Yanny, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, so it’s still hard to know for sure what caused it, but there’s a prevailing theory and essentially two things are what people think is happening in this clip. One is that the recording of the recording has added and introduced new frequencies to the audio. So remember, these were high school kids who were recording a clip played from online of a vocab word. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The original word is Laurel. So if that’s what you heard, you were correct. But when Laurel was recorded through computer speakers into a phone and then sent across the internet, it introduced some additional frequencies to the audio. And our brains are choosing which of those frequencies to prioritize. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And this is where the age part comes in. Older people tend to hear lower frequencies and less of the high frequencies. And then younger listeners, they have a broader range of those high frequencies available to them. So the theory is that if you hear Laurel, you’re probably prioritizing those lower frequencies, and if you hear Yanny, your brain is prioritizing those higher frequencies. And younger people may be more inclined to prioritize those because they can actually hear more of them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My God. Sorry, I’m still coming to terms with my ancient, decrepit ears. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know. It’s the worst. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So are there any bigger implications for this phenomenon or is it just like an oddity of the digital age? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it means that there’s just more opportunity for ambiguity and misinterpretation. We’re listening to audio, if you think about it, in all these different forms all the time now, we’re playing them through computer speakers, from our phone speakers on crowded busses, in our car stereos, which means that there’s a lot of opportunity for us to hear things differently. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So is this why I sometimes miss your song lyrics? Like I swore, god, back in the day, Taylor Swift’s Blank Space. I swore she was saying “Starbucks lovers.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Taylor Swift: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Got a long list of ex-lovers. They’ll tell… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, that is a common one. The actual lyric is “long list of ex-lovers,” but I get why people hear that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And here I am, like, I knew it was the wrong lyric, and for the last, I don’t know, 10 years, I’ve just been like, “I don’t need to learn it, it’s Starbucks lovers.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, that’s actually a different phenomena, but just as fascinating. It turns out our brains do make up words that aren’t there. And that’s what’s happening when you’re listening to song lyrics sometimes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Let’s hear about that, in a new tab. Can my brain make up words that aren’t there?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re definitely not the only person this happens to. I actually went around and I asked our colleagues about some of the songs that they’ve misheard.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susie Britton: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My brother and I, when we were little, used to play what we called the wrong song game. One that I remember was Bonnie Tyler’s It’s a Heartache.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bonnie Tyler: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a heartache\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susie Britton: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And we heard that as, it’s a hard egg.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mark Nieto: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I learned this very, very late in life, which I’m embarrassed to admit, but yeah, the song lyric is “revved up like a deuce” from Blinded by the Light by Manfred Mann.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Manfred Mann: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Blinded by the light. Revved up like a deuce another runner in the night.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mark Nieto: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For the vast majority of my life, I thought it was “wrapped up like a douche.” And I know I’m not the only one because if you Google that lyric, you get a ton of hits for it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marlena Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Beat It by Michael Jackson, I always thought was, “beat it, just beat it. You don’t wanna beat it beat it”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Jackson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Beat it, beat it, no one wants to be defeated.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marlena Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But it’s actually, “no one wants to be defeated.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Blanca Torres: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When Chappell Roan’s song, Hot to Go, was really popular.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chappell Roan: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">H-O-T-T-O-G-O You can take me hot to go.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Blanca Torres: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My then five-year-old loved that song, would always sing along to it, and then one time I was singing along to, and I said, “hot to go,” and she was like, Mom, that’s wrong, it’s “out to go.” She wasn’t catching on to the spelling, so she was just like, “you’re wrong, it’s out to, do it right.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bryan Vo: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Growing up, one of the childhood bangers was T-Pain Buy You a Drink. I saw a T-pain tweet about it in like 2017. And then I found out that instead of just harmonizing random lyrics, “ooh wee.” It was actually “and then.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wait, what?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bryan Vo: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Exactly what?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m glad I’m not the only one. So is there a name for this phenomenon, too?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Very perceptive. I feel like you’re getting the hang of this. It’s called the Mondegreen effect. And that’s when you mishear phrases or words and so assign them a new meaning. Sometimes it’s hearing words that you do know, but in an order that’s not what was actually being said, like Starbucks lovers, like those are real words. And then sometimes it’s just inventing a totally new word, which is what happens to me the most. I just make up a new thing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, this is most common with song lyrics, and it comes from the mid-century American writer, Sylvia Wright. She coined this term based on her childhood. She remembered mis-hearing the line in a Scottish ballad called The Bonnie Earl O’ Moray. And there’s a line in the song that goes, “laid him on the green,” which she interpreted as Lady Mondegreen.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>The Bonnie Earl O’ Moray: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh where have ye been, they slain The Earl O’ Moray, and laid him on the green.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Which is another really common way that we do this is we just make up formal nouns or things that feel like names when we don’t really know what’s being said. So Morgan, researching the Mondegreen effect actually led me to researcher Diana Deutsch. She is at Stanford and UC San Diego, and she is like the audio illusion researcher. Been doing this for decades. She discovered that when you take two audio sources, and you play the same word or syllable slightly out of sync, after about 10 seconds of listening, people start to invent phantom words in that overlap. They start to hear different things.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, here’s a clip from one of these audio experiments.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Auditory Illusion: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">WELWELWELLWEL WEL WELL WELLWELL WEL\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And even with the same audio, the phantom words that they’re hearing are often unique to the listener. So here’s Diana listing some of the words that people have reported hearing in the same piece of audio.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Deustch: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Window, welcome, love me, run away, no brain, rainbow, raincoat, bueno, nombre, when oh when, mango, window pane, broadway, even rogain.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That is fascinating. So why would people hear totally different phantom words in the same audio?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is similar to something called periodolia, where people perceive familiar patterns in random or ambiguous stimuli. This happens a lot with visual things. So like seeing a face on the moon or Jesus in a flower tortilla. It turns out that that can happen with audio too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Deustch: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Generally people hear words or phrases that refer to things that are on their mind. So for example, if someone’s on a diet, they might hear the phrase, “feel fat.” And it often happens when I present these to a group of students close to exam time, they’ll hear things like “no brain.” So these illusions show that when people believe that they’re hearing meaningful messages from the outside world, their brains are actively reconstructing sounds that make sense to them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Diana says that the patterns we hear are influenced by things like our mood, what we’ve thought about or discussed that day, whether we’re tired or sad or scared. We assign meaning to sounds based on our internal narratives. For example, that’s part of what might be going on when people report hearing electronic voice phenomena in ghost hunting. Being scared or heightened or thinking about ghosts may lead you to hear certain phrases in ambiguous audio.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ghost Hunters: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s amazing. Strange, right? How it says- Goose bumps up my spine. Clearly a voice. I hear something negative, like no or don’t.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And Diana actually told me that one thing that’s quite common is for people who have recently experienced a loss, they’re more likely in their day-to-day lives to hear what sounds like words or phrases or even voices associated with their lost loved one.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Earlier, you mentioned that having less information, like audio without visual cues, makes us more likely to assign new meaning to what we hear. So let’s bring this full circle. So after all of this research, what would you tell someone who’s absolutely convinced that they know what Elon Musk’s son said in that clip?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I guess I would say that that probably says more about you and how you feel about Elon Musk or President Trump than necessarily what the three people in that audio clip were saying. It doesn’t mean that you’re wrong. It’s just that we don’t know. There’s no way to really hear truth in an audio clip that convoluted.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what are some of the ways bad actors can purposely take advantage of how suggestible our senses and our brains are?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think that the easiest way to be manipulated is when somebody is taking a clip or a small snippet of something and then abbreviating the context and telling you what goes before and after. And social media is designed in this way to give us bite-sized samples of the world. But when you’re taking just a bite, it means that you might be missing the whole meal around it, and you might get the flavors wrong. And you might kinda misunderstand what’s being served to you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How can understanding all of this brain trickery help us spot actual misinformation?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, that’s the ultimate question, right? We can’t trust our eyes, we can’t trust our ears, we can’t trust AI. I think that the real takeaway, I guess, that I have after this research spiral is trust but verify. Double check your own thinking when you’re encountering one of these clips online. Is it too good to be true? Maybe it takes a little extra Googling to see if you can get to the bottom of it. And maybe, I guess another takeaway I would have is being okay with a little bit of ambiguity. Sometimes there are mysteries that Google can’t answer for us. Just like the answer of what was really said in the White House in that moment.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No amount of Reddit threads can do it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But knowing that there are unknowns, I feel like being aware that people claiming to have a definitive answer might not be telling the truth.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well Francesca, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks so much for telling us all about, I don’t know, these crazy auditory illusions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you for having me, Morgan. This was super fun.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>Voices from KQED staff in this episode included Susie Britton, Mark Nieto, Marlena Jackson-Retondo, Brian Vo, and Blanca Torres. Francesca runs KQED’s Discord server and Close All Tabs has its own channel. Come say hi, share your thoughts, and chat with other listeners about the show. Join us at discord.gg/KQED.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, let’s close all these tabs.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios and is reported and hosted by me, Morgan Sung. Our Producer is Maya Cueva. Chris Egusa is our Senior Editor. Jen Chien is KQED’s Director of Podcasts and helps edit the show. Sound design by Maya Cueva. Original music by Chris Egusa. Additional music by APM. Mixing and mastering by Brendan Willard and Katherine Monahan. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad and Alana Walker. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager, and Holly Kernan is our Chief Content Officer. Support for this program comes from Birong Hu and supporters of the KQED Studios Fund. Some members of the kqed podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Keyboard sounds were recorded on my purple and pink dust silver K-84 wired mechanical keyboard with Gateron Red switches. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you have feedback, or a topic you think we should cover, hit us up at CloseAllTabs@KQED.org, follow us on Instagram at CloseAllTabsPod, and if you’re enjoying the show, give us a rating on Apple Podcasts or whatever platform you use. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks for listening! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"title": "Do You Hear What I Hear? Audio Illusions and Misinformation | KQED",
"description": "Are you old enough to remember the “Magic Eye” optical illusion mania that gripped the nation in the 90’s—random patterns that you had to squint at just right for the 3D image to pop out? It turns out it's not just our eyes that can be fooled. Our ears can play tricks on us too. There's a whole world of auditory illusions that seem to say one thing when they're really saying something else, and that matters, especially in our age of digital misinformation. In today’s episode, Morgan talks to KQED Digital Community Producer Francesca Fenzi about why we hear what we think we hear, and how understanding the limits of our perception might actually make us better at spotting dis- and misinformation online.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Are you old enough to remember the \u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://eyeondesign.aiga.org/the-hidden-history-of-magic-eye-the-optical-illusion-that-briefly-took-over-the-world/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Magic Eye” optical illusion mania\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> that gripped the nation in the 90’s—random patterns that you had to squint at just right for the 3D image to pop out? It turns out it’s not just our eyes that can be fooled. Our \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">ears\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> can play tricks on us too. There’s a whole world of auditory illusions that seem to say one thing when they’re really saying something else, and that matters, especially in our age of digital misinformation.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In today’s episode, Morgan talks to KQED Digital Community Producer Francesca Fenzi about why we hear what we \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">think \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">we hear, and how understanding the limits of our perception might actually make us better at spotting dis- and misinformation online.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=KQINC7508034216\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Guest:\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Francesa Fenzi, KQED Digital Community Producer \u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\">Follow us on Instagram\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci data-stringify-type=\"italic\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My colleague \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Francesca Fenzi\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, digital community producer at KQED, spends a lot of time online. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m on KQED’s Discord server, on Reddit, all the various chat threads and usual places. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">After President Trump was sworn into office earlier this year, she noticed a new wave of viral content about him and his administration. There were clips claiming all kinds of things. One of these viral clips shows Musk and his son, X, during a visit to the White House. X was four at the time. While Musk speaks to the press, X runs around the Oval Office and makes his way the president’s desk. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">At one point, he peels off and he makes a side comment to President Trump. This is all happening while Elon Musk is speaking, so it’s very hard to hear what he’s saying. But a lot of people started interpreting what the boy was saying as saying, “You’re not the president and you need to go away,” to Donald Trump. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Elon Musk: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Part of the presidency is to restore, is to restore democracy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Again, X is very young. This was a four-year-old babbling at the president. Another moment from the same meeting seems to show X telling the president to, “shush his mouth.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Elon Musk: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Taxes from one year to the next are the same. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I did watch this clip. It does seem like he might have said something like this, but my audio producer brain also lit up right away because I can tell you that that clip was not clear. It was not the kind of thing that you can clean up in post. So when people started quoting this as fact, as something that was happening, my interest was piqued. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The whole thing set Francesca down a research rabbit hole, which — relatable. This clip felt different from other pieces of viral misinformation she’d seen online. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We’ve been really focused on AI’s potential to spread false information and how it can trick people into believing things that never actually happened. But even without AI, our senses can be fooled the old fashioned way. And what I was interested in in this situation was just trying to understand how our brains process what we see and hear and how those senses can be manipulated, not by AI, but just by old fashioned audio and video tricks. And so my research spiral, led me to this whole world of auditory illusions. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Remember those Magic Eye posters? They were those optical illusions that looked like random patterns until you unfocused your eyes just right and a hidden image popped out. Well, it turns out it’s not just our eyes that can be fooled. Our ears can play tricks on us too. There’s a whole world of auditory illusions that seem to say one thing when they’re really saying something else. And that matters, especially in an age of misinformation. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In today’s episode, we’re looking at some phenomena that can completely change what we think we hear. And we explore how understanding the limits of our perception might actually make us better at spotting disinformation online. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is Close All Tabs. I’m Morgan Sung, tech journalist, and your chronically online friend, here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Let’s get into it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so we’re gonna start with something that feels super commonplace, but might not be as reliable as we think. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">New tab. Can we trust lip reading? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so in this video with Elon Musk’s son and President Trump, a lot of people were really relying on a combination of very poor audio and lip reading to decipher what he was saying. So let’s start with lip reading. Francesca, how reliable is it? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, it’s estimated that only 30 to 40% of speech can actually be lip read, and that’s even under the best conditions. Lip reading is a really useful tool for people who are hard of hearing because it helps to piece together context around other pieces of information, right? Like partial audio or even like hand movements in sign language. So some lip readings seem really good when we think that we have the context associated with them. One example of that is there’s a TikTok creator who I really like, her handle is “It’s Jackie G”, and she interprets celebrity red carpet moments. So she’ll take moments of celebrities being recorded and will lip read the conversation that’s too far away from the camera for us to be able to hear accurately. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here’s Jackie G, lip reading Zendaya at this year’s Met Gala. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jackie G: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">She’s so fab. So fabulous. I love it. It’s so funny because she’s, I would say when we, when it cuts off. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The reason that those work is because as a fan of a certain kind of celebrity, you are probably a little bit aware of how they feel about the movie that they’re promoting or their relationship to other stars who they might be interacting with, and they seem really plausible because of that. But the more removed lip reading is from its context, the less you understand about the true nature of the relationship of the speakers, the more likely you are to be misled. That’s part of what makes the YouTube series Bad Lip Reading so possible and successful. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bad Lip Reading is a YouTube channel that intentionally misinterprets what people are saying in movies or TV shows and then voices them over. Like this scene from Star Wars, a conversation between Obi-Wan Kenobi and some stormtroopers. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Stormtrooper: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey guys, we’re collecting donations for the Jawa Orphanage. Do you have any spare change? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Obi-Wan Kenobi: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey, you should know that you stink kinda like fish. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Stormtrooper: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wait, what? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Obi-Wan Kenobi: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Everyone knows it except for you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re removing context from the audio that you’re hearing and you’re replacing the story with sound that maybe mirrors some lip movements but is totally nonsensical to the scenario. And that’s the source of the humor in those videos. I spoke to Nicholas Davidenko, who’s a researcher at the High Level Perceptions Lab at UC Santa Cruz. He studies auditory illusions and I asked him why bad lip reading videos look so convincing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nicolas Davidenko: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The reason they work so well is because lip reading is a much more ambiguous cue. So there’s actually a lot of words that could fit the shapes of my lips as I talk. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Davidenko studies this type of phenomena in his lab. He’s been researching how to help people with something called misophonia. That is when you have an extreme negative reaction to certain sounds. There’s some sounds that all of us find a little bit unpleasant, but these are folks who have a really extreme triggered reaction to sounds like chewing or teeth mashing. Those are some common ones. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And Davidenko found that you can actually pair a different kind of video with the audio that would normally trigger misophonia for somebody. So for example, if the sound that triggers you is that sound of chewing, you can replace an image of somebody chewing with another plausible sound source. In his lab, they use an example of somebody stepping on leaves to kind of mimic that crunching sound that might originate with chewing on food. And by swapping that image out, people start to interpret that sound differently. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Nicolas Davidenko: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If the visual signal is telling you something, you trust it more than the auditory signal and when there’s a conflict, you tend to go with whatever visual system is telling you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Got it. So the thing we’re seeing with our eyes is overruling what we’re hearing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And that’s because of something called the McGurk Effect. There was this famous study in 1976, McGurk and McDonald, and what they found was that what we see can actually change what we can hear. In fact, I’m gonna demonstrate. Can I play you a video, Morgan? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Please do. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m going to play you clip, and in this first one, I just want to hear what sound you hear. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>McGurk Video: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bah bah bah \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a close-up of a person’s mouth. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>McGurk Video: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bah bah bah \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so I’m hearing bah with a B, like baby. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, yeah, that’s right. Okay, so now I’m gonna play you a different clip and tell me this time what you hear. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>McGurk Video: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bah, bah, bah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, now I’m hearing fa, like with an F, like fabulous. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right. So it’s actually the exact same audio. So if you were listening and you heard exactly the same thing both times, you’re not crazy. Morgan’s being tricked. The audio… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That is wild. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, it’s crazy, right? It happened to me too the first time I watched this. The audio is actually exactly the same, but what listeners aren’t getting in this case that you are is the lip motion is different from one to the next, and that’s actually changing the that you’re hearing the audio. So when you see that B shape being made with the mouth, you hear “ba,” and when you see that F shape being with the mouth, you’re actually hearing it like “fa.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right, like I saw the person’s bottom lip hit their teeth. It’s like, yeah, that’s an F shape. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s the effect that bad lip readings take advantage of, is they’re taking those lip shapes with plausible sounds and they’re kind of swapping them for things that are similar phonetically. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So experiencing the McGurk effect in a bad lip reading video is pretty funny, but I can imagine that if this falls into the wrong hands it can go very poorly? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For sure. Something else that Davidenko explained is that we can be misled by someone telling us what to hear or see ahead of time. That’s kind of playing into this idea that contextualizing those clips changed the way we hear it too. So it’s not just the McGurk effect, it’s also the expectation we have coming into a video. In this case, Davidenko also worked on an experiment in his lab called Mind Controlled Motion. That is how he named it, Mind Controlled Motion. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In that experiment, what researchers did is they showed people a set of randomly refreshing images that were just pixels on a screen. So they’re just truly randomly refreshing pixels popping up and disappearing. There’s no logical motion behind them. But when researchers said something like, “left, right, left, right,” or “up, down, up, down,” over and over, when people viewed these images, then people were actually seeing the motion that they were told to see. And he said that there was a 90% compliance rate, meaning like 90% of the people who watched these and got those prompts saw the motion that they are being told to. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, this really makes me think of those like kind of rage bait body language reading videos that we always see online. Like an infamous example is Couch Guy, where a girl walked into her long distance boyfriend’s apartment and he just didn’t seem as excited to see her as people thought he should have been. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Couch Guy Commenter: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">All right, there his arm goes to the side of his pants, grabs his phone from old girl, acts like he’s laughing to pull it up through the middle and then boop, there went her hand. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And some people were like, no, that’s a totally normal reaction. Like, look at his body language. He’s just surprised. Well, as other people were, like, this is, like he hates her. Look at his, body language. Does this explain, like why people see completely different things in the same viral videos? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It doesn’t have to be a deep fake to be misleading. It can be a real situation that really happened. But how something is presented has a lot to do with influencing our perception of the relationship of the before and after that surround that moment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so when I’m watching something and also listening to it at the same time, it’s like, “yeah, my eyes can deceive me,” but at least audio on its own is safe, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Uh, unfortunately, not exactly. Morgan, do you remember the whole Laurel, Yanny thing that broke the internet a few years ago? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It feels like a lifetime ago. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, it was like the dress, but for your ears. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And we’re going to hear about that after this break. Okay, welcome back. Time to open a new tab. Can people hear different things in the same audio? So I remember this whole Laurel versus Yanny thing back in 2018, feels like forever ago in internet time. So can you remind us what it was all about? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, so this actually started with a group of high school students who were studying vocabulary words for their English class. They were on vocabulary.com and they were sending recordings of different words to each other on Instagram and they discovered that when they recorded one word, they were hearing totally different things one person to the next. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So some people were hearing the word Laurel and others were hearing the word Yanny, which are so different that it kind of kicked off this debate in their friend group. And then eventually someone posted to Reddit and Stranger started weighing in as well. And it became this divisive litmus test of sorts where people were hearing either Laurel or Yanny and then being fiercely adamant that it was not the other. Actually, I’m gonna play the clip for you now. I wanna hear what you hear in this. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Laurel vs Yanny: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Laurel, laurel laurel, laurel, laurel. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You know what’s crazy? When I first heard this, um, what was this, like seven years ago in 2018, I swore it was saying Yanny. And now… I’m hearing Laurel.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, I think I may have an explanation for that. I hear Laurel too, and the unflattering reason behind that, or one of the theories, is that it may be related to our age. So I hate to tell you, but I think you’ve arrived in Millennialville. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s time. It’s coming for us all. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So when this was first circulating, the New York Times and Wired and a bunch of other news outlets took it super seriously getting to the bottom of what was happening. And the New York Times actually created this tool to help people hear both sides. So if you only heard one or the other in this clip, I can play a clip of audio that shows you what it should sound like moving from the Laurel to Yanny spectrum. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Laurel vs Yanny: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Laurel, laurel, laurel, laurel, yanny, yanny, yanny, yanny, yanny. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, I was hearing like hints of Yanny. It was so weird. It was like my brain was fighting the Yanny. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, it feels like it’s like fighting to come to the surface. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But eventually like it kicks over. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Exactly! So there’s some actual science behind why some people hear Laurel and others hear Yanny, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, so it’s still hard to know for sure what caused it, but there’s a prevailing theory and essentially two things are what people think is happening in this clip. One is that the recording of the recording has added and introduced new frequencies to the audio. So remember, these were high school kids who were recording a clip played from online of a vocab word. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The original word is Laurel. So if that’s what you heard, you were correct. But when Laurel was recorded through computer speakers into a phone and then sent across the internet, it introduced some additional frequencies to the audio. And our brains are choosing which of those frequencies to prioritize. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And this is where the age part comes in. Older people tend to hear lower frequencies and less of the high frequencies. And then younger listeners, they have a broader range of those high frequencies available to them. So the theory is that if you hear Laurel, you’re probably prioritizing those lower frequencies, and if you hear Yanny, your brain is prioritizing those higher frequencies. And younger people may be more inclined to prioritize those because they can actually hear more of them. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My God. Sorry, I’m still coming to terms with my ancient, decrepit ears. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know. It’s the worst. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So are there any bigger implications for this phenomenon or is it just like an oddity of the digital age? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it means that there’s just more opportunity for ambiguity and misinterpretation. We’re listening to audio, if you think about it, in all these different forms all the time now, we’re playing them through computer speakers, from our phone speakers on crowded busses, in our car stereos, which means that there’s a lot of opportunity for us to hear things differently. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So is this why I sometimes miss your song lyrics? Like I swore, god, back in the day, Taylor Swift’s Blank Space. I swore she was saying “Starbucks lovers.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Taylor Swift: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Got a long list of ex-lovers. They’ll tell… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, that is a common one. The actual lyric is “long list of ex-lovers,” but I get why people hear that. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And here I am, like, I knew it was the wrong lyric, and for the last, I don’t know, 10 years, I’ve just been like, “I don’t need to learn it, it’s Starbucks lovers.” \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well, that’s actually a different phenomena, but just as fascinating. It turns out our brains do make up words that aren’t there. And that’s what’s happening when you’re listening to song lyrics sometimes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Let’s hear about that, in a new tab. Can my brain make up words that aren’t there?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re definitely not the only person this happens to. I actually went around and I asked our colleagues about some of the songs that they’ve misheard.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susie Britton: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My brother and I, when we were little, used to play what we called the wrong song game. One that I remember was Bonnie Tyler’s It’s a Heartache.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bonnie Tyler: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s a heartache\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Susie Britton: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And we heard that as, it’s a hard egg.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mark Nieto: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I learned this very, very late in life, which I’m embarrassed to admit, but yeah, the song lyric is “revved up like a deuce” from Blinded by the Light by Manfred Mann.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Manfred Mann: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Blinded by the light. Revved up like a deuce another runner in the night.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Mark Nieto: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">For the vast majority of my life, I thought it was “wrapped up like a douche.” And I know I’m not the only one because if you Google that lyric, you get a ton of hits for it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marlena Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Beat It by Michael Jackson, I always thought was, “beat it, just beat it. You don’t wanna beat it beat it”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Michael Jackson: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Beat it, beat it, no one wants to be defeated.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Marlena Jackson-Retondo: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But it’s actually, “no one wants to be defeated.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Blanca Torres: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">When Chappell Roan’s song, Hot to Go, was really popular.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Chappell Roan: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">H-O-T-T-O-G-O You can take me hot to go.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Blanca Torres: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">My then five-year-old loved that song, would always sing along to it, and then one time I was singing along to, and I said, “hot to go,” and she was like, Mom, that’s wrong, it’s “out to go.” She wasn’t catching on to the spelling, so she was just like, “you’re wrong, it’s out to, do it right.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bryan Vo: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Growing up, one of the childhood bangers was T-Pain Buy You a Drink. I saw a T-pain tweet about it in like 2017. And then I found out that instead of just harmonizing random lyrics, “ooh wee.” It was actually “and then.”\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wait, what?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Bryan Vo: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Exactly what?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m glad I’m not the only one. So is there a name for this phenomenon, too?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Very perceptive. I feel like you’re getting the hang of this. It’s called the Mondegreen effect. And that’s when you mishear phrases or words and so assign them a new meaning. Sometimes it’s hearing words that you do know, but in an order that’s not what was actually being said, like Starbucks lovers, like those are real words. And then sometimes it’s just inventing a totally new word, which is what happens to me the most. I just make up a new thing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, this is most common with song lyrics, and it comes from the mid-century American writer, Sylvia Wright. She coined this term based on her childhood. She remembered mis-hearing the line in a Scottish ballad called The Bonnie Earl O’ Moray. And there’s a line in the song that goes, “laid him on the green,” which she interpreted as Lady Mondegreen.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>The Bonnie Earl O’ Moray: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh where have ye been, they slain The Earl O’ Moray, and laid him on the green.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Which is another really common way that we do this is we just make up formal nouns or things that feel like names when we don’t really know what’s being said. So Morgan, researching the Mondegreen effect actually led me to researcher Diana Deutsch. She is at Stanford and UC San Diego, and she is like the audio illusion researcher. Been doing this for decades. She discovered that when you take two audio sources, and you play the same word or syllable slightly out of sync, after about 10 seconds of listening, people start to invent phantom words in that overlap. They start to hear different things.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, here’s a clip from one of these audio experiments.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Auditory Illusion: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">WELWELWELLWEL WEL WELL WELLWELL WEL\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And even with the same audio, the phantom words that they’re hearing are often unique to the listener. So here’s Diana listing some of the words that people have reported hearing in the same piece of audio.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Deustch: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Window, welcome, love me, run away, no brain, rainbow, raincoat, bueno, nombre, when oh when, mango, window pane, broadway, even rogain.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That is fascinating. So why would people hear totally different phantom words in the same audio?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is similar to something called periodolia, where people perceive familiar patterns in random or ambiguous stimuli. This happens a lot with visual things. So like seeing a face on the moon or Jesus in a flower tortilla. It turns out that that can happen with audio too.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Diana Deustch: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Generally people hear words or phrases that refer to things that are on their mind. So for example, if someone’s on a diet, they might hear the phrase, “feel fat.” And it often happens when I present these to a group of students close to exam time, they’ll hear things like “no brain.” So these illusions show that when people believe that they’re hearing meaningful messages from the outside world, their brains are actively reconstructing sounds that make sense to them.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Diana says that the patterns we hear are influenced by things like our mood, what we’ve thought about or discussed that day, whether we’re tired or sad or scared. We assign meaning to sounds based on our internal narratives. For example, that’s part of what might be going on when people report hearing electronic voice phenomena in ghost hunting. Being scared or heightened or thinking about ghosts may lead you to hear certain phrases in ambiguous audio.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ghost Hunters: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s amazing. Strange, right? How it says- Goose bumps up my spine. Clearly a voice. I hear something negative, like no or don’t.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And Diana actually told me that one thing that’s quite common is for people who have recently experienced a loss, they’re more likely in their day-to-day lives to hear what sounds like words or phrases or even voices associated with their lost loved one.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Earlier, you mentioned that having less information, like audio without visual cues, makes us more likely to assign new meaning to what we hear. So let’s bring this full circle. So after all of this research, what would you tell someone who’s absolutely convinced that they know what Elon Musk’s son said in that clip?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I guess I would say that that probably says more about you and how you feel about Elon Musk or President Trump than necessarily what the three people in that audio clip were saying. It doesn’t mean that you’re wrong. It’s just that we don’t know. There’s no way to really hear truth in an audio clip that convoluted.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And what are some of the ways bad actors can purposely take advantage of how suggestible our senses and our brains are?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think that the easiest way to be manipulated is when somebody is taking a clip or a small snippet of something and then abbreviating the context and telling you what goes before and after. And social media is designed in this way to give us bite-sized samples of the world. But when you’re taking just a bite, it means that you might be missing the whole meal around it, and you might get the flavors wrong. And you might kinda misunderstand what’s being served to you.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How can understanding all of this brain trickery help us spot actual misinformation?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, that’s the ultimate question, right? We can’t trust our eyes, we can’t trust our ears, we can’t trust AI. I think that the real takeaway, I guess, that I have after this research spiral is trust but verify. Double check your own thinking when you’re encountering one of these clips online. Is it too good to be true? Maybe it takes a little extra Googling to see if you can get to the bottom of it. And maybe, I guess another takeaway I would have is being okay with a little bit of ambiguity. Sometimes there are mysteries that Google can’t answer for us. Just like the answer of what was really said in the White House in that moment.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No amount of Reddit threads can do it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But knowing that there are unknowns, I feel like being aware that people claiming to have a definitive answer might not be telling the truth.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Well Francesca, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks so much for telling us all about, I don’t know, these crazy auditory illusions.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Francesca Fenzi:\u003c/b> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you for having me, Morgan. This was super fun.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>Voices from KQED staff in this episode included Susie Britton, Mark Nieto, Marlena Jackson-Retondo, Brian Vo, and Blanca Torres. Francesca runs KQED’s Discord server and Close All Tabs has its own channel. Come say hi, share your thoughts, and chat with other listeners about the show. Join us at discord.gg/KQED.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Now, let’s close all these tabs.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios and is reported and hosted by me, Morgan Sung. Our Producer is Maya Cueva. Chris Egusa is our Senior Editor. Jen Chien is KQED’s Director of Podcasts and helps edit the show. Sound design by Maya Cueva. Original music by Chris Egusa. Additional music by APM. Mixing and mastering by Brendan Willard and Katherine Monahan. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad and Alana Walker. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager, and Holly Kernan is our Chief Content Officer. Support for this program comes from Birong Hu and supporters of the KQED Studios Fund. Some members of the kqed podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Keyboard sounds were recorded on my purple and pink dust silver K-84 wired mechanical keyboard with Gateron Red switches. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">If you have feedback, or a topic you think we should cover, hit us up at CloseAllTabs@KQED.org, follow us on Instagram at CloseAllTabsPod, and if you’re enjoying the show, give us a rating on Apple Podcasts or whatever platform you use. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thanks for listening! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cem>Updated 1:05 p.m. Tuesday\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Two Bay Area counties are suing the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/donald-trump\">Trump administration\u003c/a> over its reorganization and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034478/federal-workers-fired-thousands-california-wants-hire-them\">downsizing of the federal government\u003c/a> without congressional approval, their top attorneys announced Tuesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>San Francisco City Attorney David Chiu and Santa Clara County Counsel Tony LoPresti joined cities and counties in Texas, Illinois, Washington and Maryland, as well as labor unions representing affected workers, to bring the suit alleging that the mass restructuring violates the constitutional principle of separation of powers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The suit, which names President Donald Trump, the Department of Government Efficiency, the Office of Personnel Management and the Office of Management and Budget, was filed Monday evening in the U.S. District Court of Northern California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This case really boils down to the basic civics that we all learned in high school. There are three co-equal branches of government,” LoPresti said at a Tuesday press conference in San José. “The president’s job is to execute the laws, not to make the laws. When the president attempts to take the legislative power away from the legislative branch and claim it as his own, we are facing an existential threat to democracy.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The plaintiffs allege that Trump’s executive orders, which demand reductions in the function and workforce of federal departments, exceed his executive authority and illegally take away Congress’ exclusive authority to create U.S. law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chiu and LoPresti argue that Trump needs the legislative branch’s permission to make these significant changes to the size and structure of the federal government — a rule he should know, the lawsuit said, since he “tried and failed to obtain that authorization during his first term in office.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12028373\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12028373\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/GettyImages-2195560285-scaled-e1745951058371.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">President Donald Trump holds up a signed executive order in the Oval Office of the White House on Jan. 23. \u003ccite>(Anna Moneymaker/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“President Trump determined that in his second term, he would proceed without Congress,” the lawsuit alleges.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In his first weeks in office, Trump created the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12033139/doge-says-it-needs-to-know-the-governments-most-sensitive-data-but-cant-say-why\">Department of Government Efficiency\u003c/a>, which, despite its name, is set up as a White House executive office, not an official Cabinet-level department. Headed by Elon Musk, DOGE was tasked with carrying out an 18-month agenda to reduce the government’s “waste, bloat, and insularity.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In February, Trump introduced an \u003ca href=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/implementing-the-presidents-department-of-government-efficiency-workforce-optimization-initiative/\">executive order on his “Workforce Optimization Initiative,”\u003c/a> which required all government agencies to submit downsizing plans to DOGE, along with the offices of Management and Budget, and Personnel Management.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So far, more than 58,000 employees have been fired as part of the DOGE-led restructuring, while 76,000 more took a buyout offered by the Trump administration in January, \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/03/28/us/politics/trump-doge-federal-job-cuts.html\">according to data tracked by the \u003cem>New York Times\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>. \u003c/em>(The federal government has kept no official tally of the number of affected workers.)\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Planned cuts could hit more than 148,000 additional federal workers, according to the \u003cem>Times\u003c/em> tracker, and multiple government agencies have been all but shut down through hiring and funding freezes and executive orders from the president.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Our federal government has been decimated and thrown into complete disarray,” Chiu said Tuesday. “These dramatic and illegal changes have made it extremely difficult for local communities and local governments to effectively deliver our programs and services, as massive layoffs and staffing shortages have ground intergovernmental work to a halt.”[aside postID=news_12037889 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/TravisAirForceBaseGetty-1020x602.jpg']This week’s lawsuit alleges that Trump’s executive order on the federal workforce and three others targeting a dozen specific government agencies — including the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/65308/the-education-department-is-being-cut-in-half-heres-whats-being-lost\">Department of Education\u003c/a>, the Institute of Peace, and the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12027864/trump-moves-slash-presidio-trust-agency-runs-historic-sf-park\">Presidio Trust\u003c/a> in San Francisco — violate the requirement for congressional approval.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The Workforce Executive Order does not simply suggest or encourage agencies to exercise their own statutory authority to effectuate a government-wide reorganization: it orders them to act according to the President’s vision, regardless of that statutory authority,” the lawsuit reads.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The local governments and labor unions are requesting that a federal judge vacate the executive order to downsize the federal workforce and declare that Trump acted unconstitutionally. It also asks the judge to find that departments carrying out Trump’s requests have acted unlawfully and outside the authority granted to them by Congress.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When the president takes for himself the legislative power of Congress to recreate federal agencies in the manner he sees fit, he violates the Constitution,” the suit said. “And when the president does so across every federal agency, he threatens the very constitutional foundation of this nation.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If successful, the parties aim to halt future reduction-in-force plans at federal agencies and reverse cuts they say were made unconstitutionally, which have already affected Bay Area \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12029178/trumps-mass-layoffs-noaa-cut-into-bay-area-weather-service\">National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration\u003c/a> workers, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12033338/bay-area-air-traffic-control-is-down-to-1-meteorologist-after-trumps-hiring-freeze\">air traffic controllers\u003c/a>, and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034527/meals-on-wheels-child-welfare-hhs-staff-sf-woke-up-our-jobs-gone\">Health and Human Services \u003c/a>employees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As far as I know, we still live in a democracy, and what is happening is illegal and authoritarian,” Chiu said. “This is why San Francisco stands with this coalition and this lawsuit to stand up for the constitution and our rule of law while it still exists.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This case really boils down to the basic civics that we all learned in high school. There are three co-equal branches of government,” LoPresti said at a Tuesday press conference in San José. “The president’s job is to execute the laws, not to make the laws. When the president attempts to take the legislative power away from the legislative branch and claim it as his own, we are facing an existential threat to democracy.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The plaintiffs allege that Trump’s executive orders, which demand reductions in the function and workforce of federal departments, exceed his executive authority and illegally take away Congress’ exclusive authority to create U.S. law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chiu and LoPresti argue that Trump needs the legislative branch’s permission to make these significant changes to the size and structure of the federal government — a rule he should know, the lawsuit said, since he “tried and failed to obtain that authorization during his first term in office.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12028373\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12028373\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/GettyImages-2195560285-scaled-e1745951058371.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">President Donald Trump holds up a signed executive order in the Oval Office of the White House on Jan. 23. \u003ccite>(Anna Moneymaker/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“President Trump determined that in his second term, he would proceed without Congress,” the lawsuit alleges.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In his first weeks in office, Trump created the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12033139/doge-says-it-needs-to-know-the-governments-most-sensitive-data-but-cant-say-why\">Department of Government Efficiency\u003c/a>, which, despite its name, is set up as a White House executive office, not an official Cabinet-level department. Headed by Elon Musk, DOGE was tasked with carrying out an 18-month agenda to reduce the government’s “waste, bloat, and insularity.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In February, Trump introduced an \u003ca href=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/implementing-the-presidents-department-of-government-efficiency-workforce-optimization-initiative/\">executive order on his “Workforce Optimization Initiative,”\u003c/a> which required all government agencies to submit downsizing plans to DOGE, along with the offices of Management and Budget, and Personnel Management.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So far, more than 58,000 employees have been fired as part of the DOGE-led restructuring, while 76,000 more took a buyout offered by the Trump administration in January, \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/03/28/us/politics/trump-doge-federal-job-cuts.html\">according to data tracked by the \u003cem>New York Times\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem>. \u003c/em>(The federal government has kept no official tally of the number of affected workers.)\u003cem> \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Planned cuts could hit more than 148,000 additional federal workers, according to the \u003cem>Times\u003c/em> tracker, and multiple government agencies have been all but shut down through hiring and funding freezes and executive orders from the president.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Our federal government has been decimated and thrown into complete disarray,” Chiu said Tuesday. “These dramatic and illegal changes have made it extremely difficult for local communities and local governments to effectively deliver our programs and services, as massive layoffs and staffing shortages have ground intergovernmental work to a halt.”\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>This week’s lawsuit alleges that Trump’s executive order on the federal workforce and three others targeting a dozen specific government agencies — including the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/65308/the-education-department-is-being-cut-in-half-heres-whats-being-lost\">Department of Education\u003c/a>, the Institute of Peace, and the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12027864/trump-moves-slash-presidio-trust-agency-runs-historic-sf-park\">Presidio Trust\u003c/a> in San Francisco — violate the requirement for congressional approval.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The Workforce Executive Order does not simply suggest or encourage agencies to exercise their own statutory authority to effectuate a government-wide reorganization: it orders them to act according to the President’s vision, regardless of that statutory authority,” the lawsuit reads.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The local governments and labor unions are requesting that a federal judge vacate the executive order to downsize the federal workforce and declare that Trump acted unconstitutionally. It also asks the judge to find that departments carrying out Trump’s requests have acted unlawfully and outside the authority granted to them by Congress.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“When the president takes for himself the legislative power of Congress to recreate federal agencies in the manner he sees fit, he violates the Constitution,” the suit said. “And when the president does so across every federal agency, he threatens the very constitutional foundation of this nation.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If successful, the parties aim to halt future reduction-in-force plans at federal agencies and reverse cuts they say were made unconstitutionally, which have already affected Bay Area \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12029178/trumps-mass-layoffs-noaa-cut-into-bay-area-weather-service\">National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration\u003c/a> workers, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12033338/bay-area-air-traffic-control-is-down-to-1-meteorologist-after-trumps-hiring-freeze\">air traffic controllers\u003c/a>, and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034527/meals-on-wheels-child-welfare-hhs-staff-sf-woke-up-our-jobs-gone\">Health and Human Services \u003c/a>employees.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As far as I know, we still live in a democracy, and what is happening is illegal and authoritarian,” Chiu said. “This is why San Francisco stands with this coalition and this lawsuit to stand up for the constitution and our rule of law while it still exists.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "what-is-the-nerd-reich-and-how-did-they-get-involved-with-the-us-government",
"title": "What Is Silicon Valley's 'Nerd Reich,' and Is It Taking Over the US Government?",
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"headTitle": "What Is Silicon Valley’s ‘Nerd Reich,’ and Is It Taking Over the US Government? | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>Sixty percent of surveyed American adults said they had an unfavorable view of Elon Musk — the billionaire Tesla CEO, who has been intimately involved with the federal government for months through his leadership of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12033139/doge-says-it-needs-to-know-the-governments-most-sensitive-data-but-cant-say-why\">the unofficial Department of Government Efficiency\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since the inauguration of President Donald Trump, Musk’s DOGE has \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/65206/doges-death-blow-to-education-studies\">slashed large swaths\u003c/a> of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034478/federal-workers-fired-thousands-california-wants-hire-them\">federal jobs and cut funding\u003c/a> to programs as varied as \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12025373/elon-musk-said-he-wants-usaid-to-die-now-the-agencys-website-is-down\">the U.S. Agency for International Development\u003c/a> to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12036105/bay-area-advocates-alarmed-by-mass-firings-at-federal-low-income-energy-program\">energy-saving initiatives for low-income families\u003c/a>. And \u003ca href=\"https://law.marquette.edu/poll/\">this March poll of 1,000 people\u003c/a> by the Marquette Law School is just one indicator that \u003ca href=\"https://www.politico.com/news/2025/04/02/elon-musk-poll-approval-030168\">some Americans are tired\u003c/a> of wealthy tech figures being involved in the nation’s politics.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re learning a big lesson here, which is that we can have democracy or we can have billionaires, but we can’t have both,” San Francisco journalist Gil Duran said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101909416/is-the-nerd-reich-taking-over-the-government\">KQED Forum’s Mina Kim spoke to Duran\u003c/a>, who formerly worked for California politicians like Jerry Brown and Kamala Harris, about the \u003ca href=\"https://www.thenerdreich.com/\">“Silicon Valley tech billionaire politics” that are the focus of his \u003c/a>newsletter, \u003ca href=\"https://www.thenerdreich.com/\">\u003cem>The Nerd Reich\u003c/em>\u003c/a> — and what he thinks tech elites might want next.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Before DOGE, there was RAGE\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gil Duran:\u003c/strong> Curtis Yarvin is a San Francisco software programmer who, in the early 2000s, started blogging under the name “Mencius Moldbug.” And in his blog posts — very internet troll stuff — he laid out these ideas for replacing democracy with tech-controlled dictatorships.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He specifically focused on San Francisco, which he said in his corporate tech dictatorship would be renamed “Frisk Corp.” In Frisk Corp, you would have to swipe in with \u003ca href=\"https://www.dhs.gov/archive/radio-frequency-identification-rfid-what-it\">RFID \u003c/a>chips and be under total surveillance, and give up all of your freedom in exchange for security.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=news_12033066 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/paypal-mafia_web-img-1020x574.png']\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The important thing to understand about Curtis Yarvin is that he became a favorite thinker of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12033066/the-broligarchy-pt-1-chronicles-of-the-paypal-mafia\">Peter Thiel, the PayPal Mafia billionaire \u003c/a>who founded Palantir and got even richer off of government surveillance. Some people call him Peter Thiel’s house philosopher.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2012, [Yarvin] gave a speech in which he said that the government needed to be reformed with something he called RAGE — Retire All Government Employees. And that entailed taking over the federal government, purging the bureaucracy of anybody who’s a Democrat or who believes in democracy, and replacing all federal employees with people who would answer to a CEO-dictator-type of person. Very much mirroring what Elon Musk is doing with DOGE at this current time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If it weren’t for these billionaires, [Yarvin would] be just an anonymous internet troll. The whole reason this has gone national is because of JD Vance. [And] to understand JD Vance, you have to understand that \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2024/07/17/g-s1-11654/five-things-to-know-about-jd-vances-connections-to-tech-billionaires\">he is largely a creation of Peter Thiel.\u003c/a> At every step of JD’s career, Peter Thiel has been there, funding him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11222083\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/12/TrumpHandsyThiel.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11222083\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/12/TrumpHandsyThiel.jpg\" alt=\"Mike Pence looks on as Donald Trump shakes the hand of Peter Thiel during a meeting with technology executives.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/12/TrumpHandsyThiel.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/12/TrumpHandsyThiel-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/12/TrumpHandsyThiel-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/12/TrumpHandsyThiel-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/12/TrumpHandsyThiel-1180x787.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/12/TrumpHandsyThiel-960x640.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/12/TrumpHandsyThiel-240x160.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/12/TrumpHandsyThiel-375x250.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/12/TrumpHandsyThiel-520x347.jpg 520w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mike Pence looks on as Donald Trump shakes the hand of Peter Thiel during a meeting with technology executives during the first Trump Administration. \u003ccite>(Drew Angerer/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Predicting the ‘cognitive elite’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Yarvin is largely deriving his ideas from other places.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To really understand this, you have to go back to a 1997 book called \u003cem>The Sovereign Individual, \u003c/em> which basically was one of these dark, apocalyptic-style books, and it predicted that in the 21st century, the information age would undermine the existing economy and existing nation-states. That\u003ca href=\"https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Information%20Age\"> the Information Age \u003c/a>would kill lots of jobs and result in a lot of violence and chaos, and also lead to the rise of a so-called “cognitive elite”: people who are able to become wealthy off of technology and don’t need traditional jobs to survive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It would be their mission to escape from existing countries using something called cyber currency — basically \u003ca href=\"https://www.oswego.edu/cts/basics-about-cryptocurrency\">crypto, \u003c/a> which would allow them to evade taxation and evade government authority, and create their own nations that they would rule over in this post-democracy order brought about by the information age.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These ideas sound crazy when you first hear them. They sounded very unhinged to me, and I didn’t pay attention to them at first.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, you have to understand that these are very wealthy men with very strange and scary ideas. And they seriously believe in them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12033142\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1600px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-11.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12033142\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-11.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1600\" height=\"1067\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-11.jpg 1600w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-11-800x534.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-11-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-11-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-11-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1600px) 100vw, 1600px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">White House adviser Elon Musk at a Cabinet meeting at the White House on Monday. Musk, who is also the CEO of SpaceX and Tesla, is leading the Department of Government Efficiency effort that is trying to get access to data from across the government to find waste, fraud and abuse. \u003ccite>(Win McNamee/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>The GOP vs. the ‘broligarchs’?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>I think Trump has, for the most, part right now, been bought off. Trump’s in it for the money — and these guys have plenty of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He may not have the ideology, but as long as Elon and these guys are going to spend billions of dollars and create all of these \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/05/us/politics/trump-family-saudi-golf.html\">business opportunities for his family\u003c/a>, I think he’s all in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There is a problem, though, because this is becoming very unpopular very quickly. \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-approval-rating-dips-many-wary-his-wielding-power-reutersipsos-poll-finds-2025-04-21/\">The polls are diving\u003c/a>. Elon Musk is becoming one of the most despised men in the country. \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12035250/new-social-security-rules-will-create-hurdles-for-millions-of-older-adults-report-finds\">He’s threatening Social Security\u003c/a>. \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/trump-federal-workers-veterans-fired-1032360fdc6b2fb33d88edaf8f54d5ca\">He’s firing veterans\u003c/a>. You’ve got \u003ca href=\"https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/16/politics/town-halls-congress-tempers-flare/index.html\">Republicans showing up\u003c/a> to \u003ca href=\"https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/inside-a-heated-town-hall-where-a-nebraska-republican-faced-backlash-over-trumps-policies\">town halls to yell\u003c/a> at \u003ca href=\"https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/republicans-town-halls-musk-russia-b2720632.html\">their absentee representatives in early 2025\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is a political disaster in many ways, so I think there will be some political tension between the Republican establishment and these \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034198/the-broligarchy-pt-2-is-this-techno-fascism\">“tech-broligarchs”\u003c/a> — because they’re breaking all the rules of politics and don’t really seem to care about the future. And in politics, you’ve really got to care about the next election and the election after. That’s the name of the game.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Silicon Valley’s ‘right wing strain’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>I compare it to: this tech authoritarianism is the parasite and MAGA is the host.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[Tech leaders] saw an opportunity, right? It’s a very opportunistic play — and an opportunity to go as far as they can with a candidate who has been able to openly violate the law, and not pay any political consequence for it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=news_11998040 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/072024_Vance-Trump_REUTERS_CM_01-copy-1020x680.jpg']\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is not an ideology where the world is a better place for the majority of people. It’s a place where the world is a place for tech billionaires. You don’t make the world a better place by getting rid of Social Security, which is crucial to the survival of millions of Americans.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/may/10/palo-alto-book-malcom-harris-interview\">Malcolm Harris’s [book]\u003cem> Palo Alto\u003c/em>\u003c/a> talks about the right-wing strain through Silicon Valley. There was this idea during the nineties and part of the eighties and 2000s that tech was kind of fun: was going to make our life cool, all these nice products, connecting us, allowing us to buy stuff online.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And for a long time, it seemed nonthreatening. Remember, Google had the “Don’t be evil” slogan and they were kind of paddling around in their Crocs, building playgrounds for their employees and bespoke lunches and free kombucha on tap. There was the harmless vibe that seemed to be from Silicon Valley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But I think there has always been a certain anti-government lean to a lot of the Silicon Valley movement — this idea that “we’re going to create structures outside of government.” The idea of getting out of authoritarian society, evading bad governments in the future: there were times when these ideas seemed like something people on the left could be into.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, what’s happened is: these guys became super rich. And as they’ve become super super \u003cem>super \u003c/em>rich, they’ve gone far, far, far to the right — and they’re pulling others now with them.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>‘Freedom cities’ and governance by tech\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>All the way back in 2013, [Balaji Srinivasan, chief technology officer of cryptocurrency exchange Coinbase] gave a speech at \u003ca href=\"https://www.ycombinator.com/\">Y Combinator \u003c/a>in which he basically called for Silicon Valley to secede from the United States and to go start their own country and take all of their wealth and all of the brain power.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He continue[d] to develop these ideas over the next decade, and in 2022, released a book called \u003cem>The Network State\u003c/em> — how to start a new country. This book lays out all the reasons why American democracy is an outdated system and why it needs to be replaced by new tech forms of governance. And there are two ways to do that: one is to leave the country by a territory and create your own sovereign state or city. You can do that within a country or by leaving a country. And the other way is to take over existing governments and convert them into tech-controlled governments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=news_12000185 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/240625-SOLANO-COUNTY-BOARD-OF-SUPES-MD-01-KQED-1020x680.jpg']\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>My interest in this ideology started with SF politics — this effort by tech bros to take over City Hall, but also by \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/california-forever\">the California Forever Project\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It wasn’t until I read a book by a historian named Quinn Slobodian called, \u003ca href=\"https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250753892/crackupcapitalism/\">\u003cem>Crack Up Capitalism: Market Radicals and the Dream of a World Without Democracy\u003c/em>\u003c/a>, that I understood the idea there … for wealthy people to find a way to exit society and create their own sort of utopian countries that they control.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2024, Trump had a plan for something he calls the so-called “freedom cities,” which are \u003ca href=\"https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02723638.2023.2263121\">these 10 new charter cities\u003c/a> that would be built on federal land all around the United States. The newspapers have mentioned that Trump plans to “build freedom cities,” but no one has explained what that means: where the idea comes from or why we need them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think the “freedom cities” are really anti-freedom cities — a very Orwellian name for what would essentially be a corporate-controlled city.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11996750\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240502-CaliforniaForever-04-BL_qed.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11996750\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240502-CaliforniaForever-04-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240502-CaliforniaForever-04-BL_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240502-CaliforniaForever-04-BL_qed-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240502-CaliforniaForever-04-BL_qed-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240502-CaliforniaForever-04-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240502-CaliforniaForever-04-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240502-CaliforniaForever-04-BL_qed-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A billboard for California Forever sits on top of an apartment building along I-80 in Vallejo on April 2, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>How does this all end?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>A lot of people stayed home [and didn’t vote in the 2024 election.] And I think this is going to wake [Americans] up to the fact that you can’t stay home. We have to realize that there is a group of people who are avidly working against the public good and against the welfare and well-being of the majority.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t think these [tech] guys have fully thought this out. I don’t think they realize — having been in politics myself — what it’s gonna feel like when you see that the majority of people are against you. I do think this ends with tens of millions of Americans taking to the streets on a regular basis to stand against what is \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/04/22/nx-s1-5340753/trump-democracy-authoritarianism-competive-survey-political-scientist\">an increasingly authoritarian regime in Washington\u003c/a>. And I think that it also ends with a bunch of billionaires getting on planes to Moscow at midnight.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think it’s important to understand it, to learn about it, and to tell others about it … Word of mouth is very important. People listen to their peers, to their friends, to their family members. That’s where a lot of people get their main political knowledge from.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Sixty percent of surveyed American adults said they had an unfavorable view of Elon Musk — the billionaire Tesla CEO, who has been intimately involved with the federal government for months through his leadership of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12033139/doge-says-it-needs-to-know-the-governments-most-sensitive-data-but-cant-say-why\">the unofficial Department of Government Efficiency\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since the inauguration of President Donald Trump, Musk’s DOGE has \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/65206/doges-death-blow-to-education-studies\">slashed large swaths\u003c/a> of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034478/federal-workers-fired-thousands-california-wants-hire-them\">federal jobs and cut funding\u003c/a> to programs as varied as \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12025373/elon-musk-said-he-wants-usaid-to-die-now-the-agencys-website-is-down\">the U.S. Agency for International Development\u003c/a> to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12036105/bay-area-advocates-alarmed-by-mass-firings-at-federal-low-income-energy-program\">energy-saving initiatives for low-income families\u003c/a>. And \u003ca href=\"https://law.marquette.edu/poll/\">this March poll of 1,000 people\u003c/a> by the Marquette Law School is just one indicator that \u003ca href=\"https://www.politico.com/news/2025/04/02/elon-musk-poll-approval-030168\">some Americans are tired\u003c/a> of wealthy tech figures being involved in the nation’s politics.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re learning a big lesson here, which is that we can have democracy or we can have billionaires, but we can’t have both,” San Francisco journalist Gil Duran said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101909416/is-the-nerd-reich-taking-over-the-government\">KQED Forum’s Mina Kim spoke to Duran\u003c/a>, who formerly worked for California politicians like Jerry Brown and Kamala Harris, about the \u003ca href=\"https://www.thenerdreich.com/\">“Silicon Valley tech billionaire politics” that are the focus of his \u003c/a>newsletter, \u003ca href=\"https://www.thenerdreich.com/\">\u003cem>The Nerd Reich\u003c/em>\u003c/a> — and what he thinks tech elites might want next.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Before DOGE, there was RAGE\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Gil Duran:\u003c/strong> Curtis Yarvin is a San Francisco software programmer who, in the early 2000s, started blogging under the name “Mencius Moldbug.” And in his blog posts — very internet troll stuff — he laid out these ideas for replacing democracy with tech-controlled dictatorships.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He specifically focused on San Francisco, which he said in his corporate tech dictatorship would be renamed “Frisk Corp.” In Frisk Corp, you would have to swipe in with \u003ca href=\"https://www.dhs.gov/archive/radio-frequency-identification-rfid-what-it\">RFID \u003c/a>chips and be under total surveillance, and give up all of your freedom in exchange for security.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The important thing to understand about Curtis Yarvin is that he became a favorite thinker of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12033066/the-broligarchy-pt-1-chronicles-of-the-paypal-mafia\">Peter Thiel, the PayPal Mafia billionaire \u003c/a>who founded Palantir and got even richer off of government surveillance. Some people call him Peter Thiel’s house philosopher.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2012, [Yarvin] gave a speech in which he said that the government needed to be reformed with something he called RAGE — Retire All Government Employees. And that entailed taking over the federal government, purging the bureaucracy of anybody who’s a Democrat or who believes in democracy, and replacing all federal employees with people who would answer to a CEO-dictator-type of person. Very much mirroring what Elon Musk is doing with DOGE at this current time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If it weren’t for these billionaires, [Yarvin would] be just an anonymous internet troll. The whole reason this has gone national is because of JD Vance. [And] to understand JD Vance, you have to understand that \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2024/07/17/g-s1-11654/five-things-to-know-about-jd-vances-connections-to-tech-billionaires\">he is largely a creation of Peter Thiel.\u003c/a> At every step of JD’s career, Peter Thiel has been there, funding him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11222083\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/12/TrumpHandsyThiel.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11222083\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/12/TrumpHandsyThiel.jpg\" alt=\"Mike Pence looks on as Donald Trump shakes the hand of Peter Thiel during a meeting with technology executives.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/12/TrumpHandsyThiel.jpg 1920w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/12/TrumpHandsyThiel-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/12/TrumpHandsyThiel-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/12/TrumpHandsyThiel-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/12/TrumpHandsyThiel-1180x787.jpg 1180w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/12/TrumpHandsyThiel-960x640.jpg 960w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/12/TrumpHandsyThiel-240x160.jpg 240w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/12/TrumpHandsyThiel-375x250.jpg 375w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2016/12/TrumpHandsyThiel-520x347.jpg 520w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mike Pence looks on as Donald Trump shakes the hand of Peter Thiel during a meeting with technology executives during the first Trump Administration. \u003ccite>(Drew Angerer/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Predicting the ‘cognitive elite’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Yarvin is largely deriving his ideas from other places.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To really understand this, you have to go back to a 1997 book called \u003cem>The Sovereign Individual, \u003c/em> which basically was one of these dark, apocalyptic-style books, and it predicted that in the 21st century, the information age would undermine the existing economy and existing nation-states. That\u003ca href=\"https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Information%20Age\"> the Information Age \u003c/a>would kill lots of jobs and result in a lot of violence and chaos, and also lead to the rise of a so-called “cognitive elite”: people who are able to become wealthy off of technology and don’t need traditional jobs to survive.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It would be their mission to escape from existing countries using something called cyber currency — basically \u003ca href=\"https://www.oswego.edu/cts/basics-about-cryptocurrency\">crypto, \u003c/a> which would allow them to evade taxation and evade government authority, and create their own nations that they would rule over in this post-democracy order brought about by the information age.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These ideas sound crazy when you first hear them. They sounded very unhinged to me, and I didn’t pay attention to them at first.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, you have to understand that these are very wealthy men with very strange and scary ideas. And they seriously believe in them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12033142\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1600px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-11.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12033142\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-11.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1600\" height=\"1067\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-11.jpg 1600w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-11-800x534.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-11-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-11-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-11-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1600px) 100vw, 1600px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">White House adviser Elon Musk at a Cabinet meeting at the White House on Monday. Musk, who is also the CEO of SpaceX and Tesla, is leading the Department of Government Efficiency effort that is trying to get access to data from across the government to find waste, fraud and abuse. \u003ccite>(Win McNamee/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>The GOP vs. the ‘broligarchs’?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>I think Trump has, for the most, part right now, been bought off. Trump’s in it for the money — and these guys have plenty of it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He may not have the ideology, but as long as Elon and these guys are going to spend billions of dollars and create all of these \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/05/us/politics/trump-family-saudi-golf.html\">business opportunities for his family\u003c/a>, I think he’s all in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There is a problem, though, because this is becoming very unpopular very quickly. \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-approval-rating-dips-many-wary-his-wielding-power-reutersipsos-poll-finds-2025-04-21/\">The polls are diving\u003c/a>. Elon Musk is becoming one of the most despised men in the country. \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12035250/new-social-security-rules-will-create-hurdles-for-millions-of-older-adults-report-finds\">He’s threatening Social Security\u003c/a>. \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/trump-federal-workers-veterans-fired-1032360fdc6b2fb33d88edaf8f54d5ca\">He’s firing veterans\u003c/a>. You’ve got \u003ca href=\"https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/16/politics/town-halls-congress-tempers-flare/index.html\">Republicans showing up\u003c/a> to \u003ca href=\"https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/inside-a-heated-town-hall-where-a-nebraska-republican-faced-backlash-over-trumps-policies\">town halls to yell\u003c/a> at \u003ca href=\"https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/republicans-town-halls-musk-russia-b2720632.html\">their absentee representatives in early 2025\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is a political disaster in many ways, so I think there will be some political tension between the Republican establishment and these \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034198/the-broligarchy-pt-2-is-this-techno-fascism\">“tech-broligarchs”\u003c/a> — because they’re breaking all the rules of politics and don’t really seem to care about the future. And in politics, you’ve really got to care about the next election and the election after. That’s the name of the game.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Silicon Valley’s ‘right wing strain’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>I compare it to: this tech authoritarianism is the parasite and MAGA is the host.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[Tech leaders] saw an opportunity, right? It’s a very opportunistic play — and an opportunity to go as far as they can with a candidate who has been able to openly violate the law, and not pay any political consequence for it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is not an ideology where the world is a better place for the majority of people. It’s a place where the world is a place for tech billionaires. You don’t make the world a better place by getting rid of Social Security, which is crucial to the survival of millions of Americans.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/may/10/palo-alto-book-malcom-harris-interview\">Malcolm Harris’s [book]\u003cem> Palo Alto\u003c/em>\u003c/a> talks about the right-wing strain through Silicon Valley. There was this idea during the nineties and part of the eighties and 2000s that tech was kind of fun: was going to make our life cool, all these nice products, connecting us, allowing us to buy stuff online.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And for a long time, it seemed nonthreatening. Remember, Google had the “Don’t be evil” slogan and they were kind of paddling around in their Crocs, building playgrounds for their employees and bespoke lunches and free kombucha on tap. There was the harmless vibe that seemed to be from Silicon Valley.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But I think there has always been a certain anti-government lean to a lot of the Silicon Valley movement — this idea that “we’re going to create structures outside of government.” The idea of getting out of authoritarian society, evading bad governments in the future: there were times when these ideas seemed like something people on the left could be into.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>However, what’s happened is: these guys became super rich. And as they’ve become super super \u003cem>super \u003c/em>rich, they’ve gone far, far, far to the right — and they’re pulling others now with them.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>‘Freedom cities’ and governance by tech\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>All the way back in 2013, [Balaji Srinivasan, chief technology officer of cryptocurrency exchange Coinbase] gave a speech at \u003ca href=\"https://www.ycombinator.com/\">Y Combinator \u003c/a>in which he basically called for Silicon Valley to secede from the United States and to go start their own country and take all of their wealth and all of the brain power.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He continue[d] to develop these ideas over the next decade, and in 2022, released a book called \u003cem>The Network State\u003c/em> — how to start a new country. This book lays out all the reasons why American democracy is an outdated system and why it needs to be replaced by new tech forms of governance. And there are two ways to do that: one is to leave the country by a territory and create your own sovereign state or city. You can do that within a country or by leaving a country. And the other way is to take over existing governments and convert them into tech-controlled governments.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>My interest in this ideology started with SF politics — this effort by tech bros to take over City Hall, but also by \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/california-forever\">the California Forever Project\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It wasn’t until I read a book by a historian named Quinn Slobodian called, \u003ca href=\"https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250753892/crackupcapitalism/\">\u003cem>Crack Up Capitalism: Market Radicals and the Dream of a World Without Democracy\u003c/em>\u003c/a>, that I understood the idea there … for wealthy people to find a way to exit society and create their own sort of utopian countries that they control.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2024, Trump had a plan for something he calls the so-called “freedom cities,” which are \u003ca href=\"https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02723638.2023.2263121\">these 10 new charter cities\u003c/a> that would be built on federal land all around the United States. The newspapers have mentioned that Trump plans to “build freedom cities,” but no one has explained what that means: where the idea comes from or why we need them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think the “freedom cities” are really anti-freedom cities — a very Orwellian name for what would essentially be a corporate-controlled city.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11996750\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003ca href=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240502-CaliforniaForever-04-BL_qed.jpg\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11996750\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240502-CaliforniaForever-04-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240502-CaliforniaForever-04-BL_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240502-CaliforniaForever-04-BL_qed-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240502-CaliforniaForever-04-BL_qed-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240502-CaliforniaForever-04-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240502-CaliforniaForever-04-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/07/240502-CaliforniaForever-04-BL_qed-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A billboard for California Forever sits on top of an apartment building along I-80 in Vallejo on April 2, 2024. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>How does this all end?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>A lot of people stayed home [and didn’t vote in the 2024 election.] And I think this is going to wake [Americans] up to the fact that you can’t stay home. We have to realize that there is a group of people who are avidly working against the public good and against the welfare and well-being of the majority.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t think these [tech] guys have fully thought this out. I don’t think they realize — having been in politics myself — what it’s gonna feel like when you see that the majority of people are against you. I do think this ends with tens of millions of Americans taking to the streets on a regular basis to stand against what is \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/04/22/nx-s1-5340753/trump-democracy-authoritarianism-competive-survey-political-scientist\">an increasingly authoritarian regime in Washington\u003c/a>. And I think that it also ends with a bunch of billionaires getting on planes to Moscow at midnight.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I think it’s important to understand it, to learn about it, and to tell others about it … Word of mouth is very important. People listen to their peers, to their friends, to their family members. That’s where a lot of people get their main political knowledge from.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>Americans seeking retirement or survivor benefits from the \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/03/22/nx-s1-5320263/social-security-administration-changes-identity-office\">Social Security Administration\u003c/a> will no longer be able to apply over the phone, starting on Monday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Instead, they will have to seek services online or travel in-person to a local Social Security field office, which a \u003ca href=\"https://www.cbpp.org/research/social-security/abruptly-eliminating-social-security-phone-services-threatens-access-to\">new analysis\u003c/a> from the left-leaning Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, or CBPP, found amounts to a “45-mile trip for some 6 million seniors.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The group wrote this change “will close off an important mode of service for millions of people” who are eligible for services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“More than 4 in 10 retirees apply for their Social Security benefits by phone, as do most spouses who are eligible for benefits,” researchers wrote. “So do the substantial majority of bereaved family members who are eligible for benefits following the death of a worker.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This new policy, which also applies to anyone making changes to their direct deposit account, was first\u003ca href=\"https://www.ssa.gov/news/press/releases/2025/#2025-03-18\"> announced\u003c/a> last month — and then\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/03/22/nx-s1-5320263/social-security-administration-changes-identity-office\"> partially walked-back\u003c/a> a week later due to push back from disability groups and other stakeholders.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Agency officials have said these new measures “will further safeguard Social Security records and benefits against fraudulent activity” by creating “stronger identity verification procedures.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a statement to NPR, a spokesperson at the SSA said “telephone remains a viable option to the public” when these new policies go into effect. As of now, Medicare, disability, and supplemental income applications are exempted from the new changes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=news_12028454 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/GettyImages-2177324845-1020x680.jpg']\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Beginning on April 14, Social Security will perform an anti-fraud check on all claims filed over the telephone and flag claims that have fraud risk indicators,” they wrote. “We will continue to conduct 100 percent ID proofing for all in-person claims. 4.5 million telephone claims a year and 70K may be flagged.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Advocates for seniors and people with disabilities, however, have argued these changes amount to barriers to services for many of the people the agency is required to serve. This policy was also included in a legal challenge from disability rights groups against the agency that was\u003ca href=\"https://justiceinaging.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/AAPD-v.-SSA-Complaint.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"> filed last week (PDF)\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Social Security Administration runs a slew of programs for seniors and people with disabilities. Besides retirement services — which make up the largest share of services — the agency also runs programs that provide survivor benefits and disability benefits and supplemental income for the very poor. According to the latest monthly data, more than 50 million Americans \u003ca href=\"https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/quickfacts/stat_snapshot/#:~:text=Table%20of%20Contents,.%20.%20.%20=%20not%20applicable.\">received\u003c/a> retirement benefits from the SSA in February and \u003ca href=\"https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/chartbooks/fast_facts/2024/fast_facts24.html\">thousands\u003c/a> of Americans newly qualify for benefits every day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kathleen Romig, the CBPP’s director of Social Security and disability policy, told NPR these new in-person verification requirements will be “really burdensome” for the many Americans who qualify for these benefits, particularly those who live in more rural parts of the country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For one, she said, it’s already “a lengthy process” to get an appointment for in-person services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s no way to schedule an appointment online,” Romig said. “So you have to call the agency’s 800 number. Right now, the wait for a call back from Social Security is two and a half hours. And that’s if you get through to an agent at all. Most people don’t.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She also said once someone does get through and makes an appointment, they usually wait “more than 28 days for the next appointment” that’s available.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And for many seniors and disabled Americans, Romig said, an in-person appointment is not physically doable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Not everyone drives, particularly seniors or people with disabilities,” she said. “And not everyone is able to leave the house. Think about people who are homebound or hospitalized. So, this is incredibly burdensome for the older and disabled people that the SSA serves.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Romig said this new policy disproportionately affects every bereaved person who is applying for a Social Security survivor’s benefit, because they don’t have the option of applying online.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That is Social Security’s version of life insurance, that a widow or widower or surviving child of a worker who has died,” she said. “Those are the monthly benefits that Social Security calls survivor’s insurance. So, all of those people need to go in person to apply for benefits because there is no online option for that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And even when beneficiaries are able to apply online, there are still hurdles, the CBPP report found.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Many seniors and people with disabilities lack internet service, computers or smartphones, or the technological savvy to navigate a multi-step, multi-factor online verification process,” researchers wrote. “Even as SSA is encouraging people to do business online, the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) is making changes to online identity authentication that are triggering system outages and access problems.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Romig said ongoing \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/02/28/nx-s1-5296986/trump-worker-cuts-social-security-administration\">staff cuts\u003c/a> at the agency also make it likely that wait times for in-person services will continue to grow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“More than 4 in 10 retirees apply for their Social Security benefits by phone, as do most spouses who are eligible for benefits,” researchers wrote. “So do the substantial majority of bereaved family members who are eligible for benefits following the death of a worker.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This new policy, which also applies to anyone making changes to their direct deposit account, was first\u003ca href=\"https://www.ssa.gov/news/press/releases/2025/#2025-03-18\"> announced\u003c/a> last month — and then\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/03/22/nx-s1-5320263/social-security-administration-changes-identity-office\"> partially walked-back\u003c/a> a week later due to push back from disability groups and other stakeholders.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Agency officials have said these new measures “will further safeguard Social Security records and benefits against fraudulent activity” by creating “stronger identity verification procedures.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a statement to NPR, a spokesperson at the SSA said “telephone remains a viable option to the public” when these new policies go into effect. As of now, Medicare, disability, and supplemental income applications are exempted from the new changes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Beginning on April 14, Social Security will perform an anti-fraud check on all claims filed over the telephone and flag claims that have fraud risk indicators,” they wrote. “We will continue to conduct 100 percent ID proofing for all in-person claims. 4.5 million telephone claims a year and 70K may be flagged.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Advocates for seniors and people with disabilities, however, have argued these changes amount to barriers to services for many of the people the agency is required to serve. This policy was also included in a legal challenge from disability rights groups against the agency that was\u003ca href=\"https://justiceinaging.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/AAPD-v.-SSA-Complaint.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"> filed last week (PDF)\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Social Security Administration runs a slew of programs for seniors and people with disabilities. Besides retirement services — which make up the largest share of services — the agency also runs programs that provide survivor benefits and disability benefits and supplemental income for the very poor. According to the latest monthly data, more than 50 million Americans \u003ca href=\"https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/quickfacts/stat_snapshot/#:~:text=Table%20of%20Contents,.%20.%20.%20=%20not%20applicable.\">received\u003c/a> retirement benefits from the SSA in February and \u003ca href=\"https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/chartbooks/fast_facts/2024/fast_facts24.html\">thousands\u003c/a> of Americans newly qualify for benefits every day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kathleen Romig, the CBPP’s director of Social Security and disability policy, told NPR these new in-person verification requirements will be “really burdensome” for the many Americans who qualify for these benefits, particularly those who live in more rural parts of the country.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For one, she said, it’s already “a lengthy process” to get an appointment for in-person services.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s no way to schedule an appointment online,” Romig said. “So you have to call the agency’s 800 number. Right now, the wait for a call back from Social Security is two and a half hours. And that’s if you get through to an agent at all. Most people don’t.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She also said once someone does get through and makes an appointment, they usually wait “more than 28 days for the next appointment” that’s available.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And for many seniors and disabled Americans, Romig said, an in-person appointment is not physically doable.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Not everyone drives, particularly seniors or people with disabilities,” she said. “And not everyone is able to leave the house. Think about people who are homebound or hospitalized. So, this is incredibly burdensome for the older and disabled people that the SSA serves.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Romig said this new policy disproportionately affects every bereaved person who is applying for a Social Security survivor’s benefit, because they don’t have the option of applying online.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“That is Social Security’s version of life insurance, that a widow or widower or surviving child of a worker who has died,” she said. “Those are the monthly benefits that Social Security calls survivor’s insurance. So, all of those people need to go in person to apply for benefits because there is no online option for that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And even when beneficiaries are able to apply online, there are still hurdles, the CBPP report found.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Many seniors and people with disabilities lack internet service, computers or smartphones, or the technological savvy to navigate a multi-step, multi-factor online verification process,” researchers wrote. “Even as SSA is encouraging people to do business online, the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) is making changes to online identity authentication that are triggering system outages and access problems.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Romig said ongoing \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/02/28/nx-s1-5296986/trump-worker-cuts-social-security-administration\">staff cuts\u003c/a> at the agency also make it likely that wait times for in-person services will continue to grow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"title": "Thousands Across Bay Area Join Nationwide Rallies Slamming Trump and Musk",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cem>Updated 6 p.m. Saturday\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Thousands of people turned out in protests across the Bay Area Saturday, joining crowds across the country who say President Donald Trump is taking the country in the wrong direction.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So-called Hands Off! demonstrations were organized for more than 1,200 locations in all 50 states by more than 150 groups including civil rights organizations, labor unions, LBGTQ+ advocates, veterans and elections activists. The rallies appeared peaceful, with no immediate reports of arrests.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In Downtown Oakland, thousands gathered with signs supporting various government programs under threat from the Trump administration and Elon Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034667\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034667\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1408.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1408.jpeg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1408-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1408-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1408-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1408-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1408-1920x1280.jpeg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Thousands gather at Frank Ogawa Plaza in Oakland for a protest against Elon Musk and Donald Trump on April 5, 2025. \u003ccite>(Aryk Copley for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“Hands off of all of it, hands off of our Medicaid, hands off of our VA nurses, hands off of our union rights,” said Katie Roemer, a registered nurse from Oakland. “The reason we have these services is because the people of our country have decided that is something that is important. That we take care of each other. And as nurses, we want to support that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>From the National Mall and Midtown Manhattan to Boston Common and multiple state capitols, thousands of protesters assailed Trump and billionaire \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/hub/elon-musk\">Elon Musk\u003c/a>‘s actions on government downsizing, the economy, immigration and human rights. In Seattle, in the shadow of the city’s iconic Space Needle, protesters held signs with slogans like “Fight the oligarchy.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034644\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1024px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034644\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/GettyImages-2208063472.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/GettyImages-2208063472.jpg 1024w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/GettyImages-2208063472-800x534.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/GettyImages-2208063472-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/GettyImages-2208063472-160x107.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Demonstrators gather outside the Minnesota State Capitol during the nationwide ‘Hands Off!’ protest against US President Donald Trump and his advisor, Tesla CEO Elon Musk, in St. Paul, Minnesota, on April 5, 2025. \u003ccite>(Tim Evans/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Demonstrators voiced anger over the administration’s moves to \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/trump-doge-veterans-64722f96984f1b730fea88278f6bc93f\">fire thousands of federal workers\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/social-security-offices-closures-doge-trump-b2b1a5b2ba4fb968abc3379bf90715ff\">close Social Security Administration field offices\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/usaid-federal-judge-trump-administration-bdc919a5d98eda5ab72a32fdfe2f147d\">effectively shutter entire agencies\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/trump-deportations-el-salvador-justice-contempt-6085e64a04b5d6455f368175af83e724\">deport immigrants\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/transgender-visibility-trump-orders-2f949cdab2673e3becdfc3d213158aa9\">scale back protections for transgender people\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/trump-covid-federal-money-lawsuit-restraining-order-hhs-4d534b9f04389161f71e3bc541e87d7a\">cut funding for health programs\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034656\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034656\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1411.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1411.jpeg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1411-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1411-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1411-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1411-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1411-1920x1280.jpeg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Jon Ramirez-Monaco waves a large hand-shaped sign as protestors march down Clay St. following a rally against Donald Trump and Elon Musk on April 5, 2025. \u003ccite>(Aryk Copley for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Oakland School Board Vice President Valarie Bachelor said\u003cbr>\nshe fears how government cuts will affect her school district.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“By defunding the Department of Education you’re taking away food lunch programs, you’re taking away funding from vulnerable students,” said Bachelor. “It scares me to think about what’s going to happen to our immigrant families and students in the district. By gutting these systems they’re attacking all of us in different ways and that’s why we need to stand together and say absolutely not.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034666\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034666\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1401.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1401.jpeg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1401-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1401-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1401-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1401-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1401-1920x1280.jpeg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Valerie Bachelor delivers a speech during a Hands Off! protest in Oakland on April 5, 2025. \u003ccite>(Aryk Copley for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Other attendees said they were worried about threats to climate initiatives, social security and DEI programs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Oakland resident and parent Monica Laboskey spoke about the importance of uniting and coming out as a community to “fight the good fight.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Hands off our funding. … It is so critical that our important services, our education, our nonprofits, our health care, our universities, that we continue to get the funding we need to continue to do the good work that everyone’s doing,” said Laboskey. “We need to figure out what’s next, and how do we take this passion and this anger and turn it into a real movement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We deserve to live in a safe, joyful society,” Laboskey said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034658\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034658\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1402.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1402.jpeg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1402-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1402-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1402-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1402-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1402-1920x1280.jpeg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Ginger Rubio, dressed as a musk rat, entertains other supporters during a Hands Off! rally in Oakland on April 5, 2025. \u003ccite>(Aryk Copley for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Musk, a Trump adviser who owns Tesla, SpaceX and the social media platform X, has played a key role in the downsizing as the head of the newly created Department of Government Efficiency. He says he is saving taxpayers billions of dollars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kelley Robinson, president of the Human Rights Campaign advocacy group, criticized the administration’s treatment of the LBGTQ+ community at the rally at the National Mall, where Democratic members of Congress also took the stage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034646\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1024px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034646\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/GettyImages-2208063639.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/GettyImages-2208063639.jpg 1024w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/GettyImages-2208063639-800x534.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/GettyImages-2208063639-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/GettyImages-2208063639-160x107.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Protesters gather on the National Mall for the nationwide ‘Hands Off!’ protest against US President Donald Trump and his advisor, Tesla CEO Elon Musk, in Washington, DC, on April 5, 2025. \u003ccite>(Roberto Schmidt/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“The attacks that we’re seeing, they’re not just political. They are personal, y’all,” Robinson said. “They’re trying to ban our books, they’re slashing HIV prevention funding, they’re criminalizing our doctors, our teachers, our families and our lives.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We don’t want this America, y’all,” Robinson added. “We want the America we deserve, where dignity, safety and freedom belong not to some of us, but to all of us.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034664\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034664\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1410.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1410.jpeg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1410-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1410-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1410-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1410-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1410-1920x1280.jpeg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Two masked protestors don red robes and white masks to protest against the Trump Administration during a rally in Frank Ogawa Plaza on April 5, 2025. \u003ccite>(Aryk Copley for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In Boston, demonstrators brandished signs such as “Hands off our democracy” and “Hands off our Social Security.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Mayor Michelle Wu said she does not want her children and others’ to live in a world in which threats and intimidation are government tactics and values like diversity and equality are under attack.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I refuse to accept that they could grow up in a world where immigrants like their grandma and grandpa are automatically presumed to be criminals,” Wu said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034660\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034660\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1404.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1404.jpeg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1404-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1404-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1404-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1404-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1404-1920x1280.jpeg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Morgan Lynn (center) dresses as the Statue of Liberty during a protest against Elon Musk and Donald Trump in Oakland on April 5, 2025. \u003ccite>(Aryk Copley for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Roger Broom, 66, a retiree from Delaware County, Ohio, was one of hundreds who rallied at the Statehouse in Columbus. He said he used to be a Reagan Republican but has been turned off by Trump.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He’s tearing this country apart,” Broom said. “It’s just an administration of grievances.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hundreds of people also demonstrated in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, a few miles from Trump’s golf course in Jupiter, where he spent the morning at the club’s Senior Club Championship. People lined both sides of PGA Drive, encouraging cars to honk and chanting slogans against Trump.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034661\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034661\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1400.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1400.jpeg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1400-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1400-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1400-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1400-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1400-1920x1280.jpeg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An enormous crowd fills the whole of Frank Ogawa Plaza during a Hands Off! protest against Elon Musk and Donald Trump on April 5, 2025. \u003ccite>(Aryk Copley for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“They need to keep their hands off of our Social Security,” said Archer Moran of Port St. Lucie, Florida.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The list of what they need to keep their hands off of is too long,” Moran said. “And it’s amazing how soon these protests are happening since he’s taken office.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The president planned to go golfing again Sunday, according to the White House.[aside postID=news_12033741 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMG_7111-e1743284395669.jpg']Asked about the protests, the White House said in a statement that “President Trump’s position is clear: he will always protect Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid for eligible beneficiaries. Meanwhile, the Democrats’ stance is giving Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare benefits to illegal aliens, which will bankrupt these programs and crush American seniors.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Activists have staged \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/50501-protests-project-2025-trump-state-capitols-ddd341171a54ba9b498cbfe7530e18ab\">nationwide demonstrations\u003c/a> against Trump and Musk multiple times since \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/trump-inauguration-scene-rotunda-republicans-second-term-618e452b9e8fe294095937b27816d21a\">Trump returned to office\u003c/a>. But before Saturday the opposition movement had yet to produce a mass mobilization like the \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/de267a3227574cb182b953cb60e69ae2\">Women’s March in 2017\u003c/a>, which brought thousands of women to Washington after Trump’s first inauguration, or the Black Lives Matter \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/mo-state-wire-in-state-wire-mi-state-wire-minneapolis-virus-outbreak-55933b8695e36337a6bfe96728b3e7f3\">demonstrations that erupted in multiple cities\u003c/a> after George Floyd’s killing by police in Minneapolis in 2020.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034657\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034657\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1406.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1406.jpeg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1406-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1406-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1406-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1406-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1406-1920x1280.jpeg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A rally participant attaches a homemade sign to the back of a hat during a protest against Elon Musk and Donald Trump in Oakland on April 5, 2025. \u003ccite>(Aryk Copley for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In Charlotte, North Carolina, protesters said they were supporting a variety of causes, from Social Security and education to immigration and women’s reproductive rights.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Regardless of your party, regardless of who you voted for, what’s going on today, what’s happening today is abhorrent,” said Britt Castillo, 35, of Charlotte. “It’s disgusting, and as broken as our current system might be, the way that the current administration is going about trying to fix things — it is not the way to do it. They’re not listening to the people.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034663\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034663\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1403.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1403.jpeg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1403-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1403-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1403-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1403-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1403-1920x1280.jpeg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Juniper Tinker Ward waves a homemade sign during a protest against Elon Musk and Donald Trump in Oakland on April 5, 2025. \u003ccite>(Aryk Copley for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story was reported by Dave Collins of The Associated Press, with contributions from AP’s Julie Carr Smyth in Columbus, Ohio, Fatima Hussein in West Palm Beach, Florida, and Erik Verduzco in Charlotte, North Carolina. KQED’s Billy Cruz contributed reporting from Oakland.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "Protesters in Oakland and the Bay Area joined more than 1,200 'Hands Off!' demonstrations nationwide, including civil rights organizations, labor unions, LBGTQ+ advocates, veterans and elections activists.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cem>Updated 6 p.m. Saturday\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Thousands of people turned out in protests across the Bay Area Saturday, joining crowds across the country who say President Donald Trump is taking the country in the wrong direction.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So-called Hands Off! demonstrations were organized for more than 1,200 locations in all 50 states by more than 150 groups including civil rights organizations, labor unions, LBGTQ+ advocates, veterans and elections activists. The rallies appeared peaceful, with no immediate reports of arrests.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In Downtown Oakland, thousands gathered with signs supporting various government programs under threat from the Trump administration and Elon Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034667\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034667\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1408.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1408.jpeg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1408-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1408-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1408-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1408-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1408-1920x1280.jpeg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Thousands gather at Frank Ogawa Plaza in Oakland for a protest against Elon Musk and Donald Trump on April 5, 2025. \u003ccite>(Aryk Copley for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“Hands off of all of it, hands off of our Medicaid, hands off of our VA nurses, hands off of our union rights,” said Katie Roemer, a registered nurse from Oakland. “The reason we have these services is because the people of our country have decided that is something that is important. That we take care of each other. And as nurses, we want to support that.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>From the National Mall and Midtown Manhattan to Boston Common and multiple state capitols, thousands of protesters assailed Trump and billionaire \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/hub/elon-musk\">Elon Musk\u003c/a>‘s actions on government downsizing, the economy, immigration and human rights. In Seattle, in the shadow of the city’s iconic Space Needle, protesters held signs with slogans like “Fight the oligarchy.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034644\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1024px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034644\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/GettyImages-2208063472.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/GettyImages-2208063472.jpg 1024w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/GettyImages-2208063472-800x534.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/GettyImages-2208063472-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/GettyImages-2208063472-160x107.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Demonstrators gather outside the Minnesota State Capitol during the nationwide ‘Hands Off!’ protest against US President Donald Trump and his advisor, Tesla CEO Elon Musk, in St. Paul, Minnesota, on April 5, 2025. \u003ccite>(Tim Evans/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Demonstrators voiced anger over the administration’s moves to \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/trump-doge-veterans-64722f96984f1b730fea88278f6bc93f\">fire thousands of federal workers\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/social-security-offices-closures-doge-trump-b2b1a5b2ba4fb968abc3379bf90715ff\">close Social Security Administration field offices\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/usaid-federal-judge-trump-administration-bdc919a5d98eda5ab72a32fdfe2f147d\">effectively shutter entire agencies\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/trump-deportations-el-salvador-justice-contempt-6085e64a04b5d6455f368175af83e724\">deport immigrants\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/transgender-visibility-trump-orders-2f949cdab2673e3becdfc3d213158aa9\">scale back protections for transgender people\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/trump-covid-federal-money-lawsuit-restraining-order-hhs-4d534b9f04389161f71e3bc541e87d7a\">cut funding for health programs\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034656\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034656\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1411.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1411.jpeg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1411-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1411-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1411-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1411-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1411-1920x1280.jpeg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Jon Ramirez-Monaco waves a large hand-shaped sign as protestors march down Clay St. following a rally against Donald Trump and Elon Musk on April 5, 2025. \u003ccite>(Aryk Copley for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Oakland School Board Vice President Valarie Bachelor said\u003cbr>\nshe fears how government cuts will affect her school district.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“By defunding the Department of Education you’re taking away food lunch programs, you’re taking away funding from vulnerable students,” said Bachelor. “It scares me to think about what’s going to happen to our immigrant families and students in the district. By gutting these systems they’re attacking all of us in different ways and that’s why we need to stand together and say absolutely not.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034666\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034666\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1401.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1401.jpeg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1401-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1401-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1401-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1401-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1401-1920x1280.jpeg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Valerie Bachelor delivers a speech during a Hands Off! protest in Oakland on April 5, 2025. \u003ccite>(Aryk Copley for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Other attendees said they were worried about threats to climate initiatives, social security and DEI programs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Oakland resident and parent Monica Laboskey spoke about the importance of uniting and coming out as a community to “fight the good fight.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Hands off our funding. … It is so critical that our important services, our education, our nonprofits, our health care, our universities, that we continue to get the funding we need to continue to do the good work that everyone’s doing,” said Laboskey. “We need to figure out what’s next, and how do we take this passion and this anger and turn it into a real movement.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We deserve to live in a safe, joyful society,” Laboskey said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034658\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034658\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1402.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1402.jpeg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1402-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1402-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1402-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1402-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1402-1920x1280.jpeg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Ginger Rubio, dressed as a musk rat, entertains other supporters during a Hands Off! rally in Oakland on April 5, 2025. \u003ccite>(Aryk Copley for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Musk, a Trump adviser who owns Tesla, SpaceX and the social media platform X, has played a key role in the downsizing as the head of the newly created Department of Government Efficiency. He says he is saving taxpayers billions of dollars.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kelley Robinson, president of the Human Rights Campaign advocacy group, criticized the administration’s treatment of the LBGTQ+ community at the rally at the National Mall, where Democratic members of Congress also took the stage.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034646\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1024px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034646\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/GettyImages-2208063639.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/GettyImages-2208063639.jpg 1024w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/GettyImages-2208063639-800x534.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/GettyImages-2208063639-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/GettyImages-2208063639-160x107.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Protesters gather on the National Mall for the nationwide ‘Hands Off!’ protest against US President Donald Trump and his advisor, Tesla CEO Elon Musk, in Washington, DC, on April 5, 2025. \u003ccite>(Roberto Schmidt/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“The attacks that we’re seeing, they’re not just political. They are personal, y’all,” Robinson said. “They’re trying to ban our books, they’re slashing HIV prevention funding, they’re criminalizing our doctors, our teachers, our families and our lives.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We don’t want this America, y’all,” Robinson added. “We want the America we deserve, where dignity, safety and freedom belong not to some of us, but to all of us.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034664\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034664\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1410.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1410.jpeg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1410-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1410-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1410-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1410-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1410-1920x1280.jpeg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Two masked protestors don red robes and white masks to protest against the Trump Administration during a rally in Frank Ogawa Plaza on April 5, 2025. \u003ccite>(Aryk Copley for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In Boston, demonstrators brandished signs such as “Hands off our democracy” and “Hands off our Social Security.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Mayor Michelle Wu said she does not want her children and others’ to live in a world in which threats and intimidation are government tactics and values like diversity and equality are under attack.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I refuse to accept that they could grow up in a world where immigrants like their grandma and grandpa are automatically presumed to be criminals,” Wu said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034660\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034660\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1404.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1404.jpeg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1404-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1404-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1404-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1404-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1404-1920x1280.jpeg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Morgan Lynn (center) dresses as the Statue of Liberty during a protest against Elon Musk and Donald Trump in Oakland on April 5, 2025. \u003ccite>(Aryk Copley for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Roger Broom, 66, a retiree from Delaware County, Ohio, was one of hundreds who rallied at the Statehouse in Columbus. He said he used to be a Reagan Republican but has been turned off by Trump.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“He’s tearing this country apart,” Broom said. “It’s just an administration of grievances.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hundreds of people also demonstrated in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, a few miles from Trump’s golf course in Jupiter, where he spent the morning at the club’s Senior Club Championship. People lined both sides of PGA Drive, encouraging cars to honk and chanting slogans against Trump.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034661\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034661\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1400.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1400.jpeg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1400-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1400-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1400-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1400-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1400-1920x1280.jpeg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An enormous crowd fills the whole of Frank Ogawa Plaza during a Hands Off! protest against Elon Musk and Donald Trump on April 5, 2025. \u003ccite>(Aryk Copley for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“They need to keep their hands off of our Social Security,” said Archer Moran of Port St. Lucie, Florida.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The list of what they need to keep their hands off of is too long,” Moran said. “And it’s amazing how soon these protests are happening since he’s taken office.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The president planned to go golfing again Sunday, according to the White House.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Asked about the protests, the White House said in a statement that “President Trump’s position is clear: he will always protect Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid for eligible beneficiaries. Meanwhile, the Democrats’ stance is giving Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare benefits to illegal aliens, which will bankrupt these programs and crush American seniors.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Activists have staged \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/50501-protests-project-2025-trump-state-capitols-ddd341171a54ba9b498cbfe7530e18ab\">nationwide demonstrations\u003c/a> against Trump and Musk multiple times since \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/trump-inauguration-scene-rotunda-republicans-second-term-618e452b9e8fe294095937b27816d21a\">Trump returned to office\u003c/a>. But before Saturday the opposition movement had yet to produce a mass mobilization like the \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/de267a3227574cb182b953cb60e69ae2\">Women’s March in 2017\u003c/a>, which brought thousands of women to Washington after Trump’s first inauguration, or the Black Lives Matter \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/mo-state-wire-in-state-wire-mi-state-wire-minneapolis-virus-outbreak-55933b8695e36337a6bfe96728b3e7f3\">demonstrations that erupted in multiple cities\u003c/a> after George Floyd’s killing by police in Minneapolis in 2020.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034657\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034657\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1406.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1406.jpeg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1406-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1406-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1406-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1406-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1406-1920x1280.jpeg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A rally participant attaches a homemade sign to the back of a hat during a protest against Elon Musk and Donald Trump in Oakland on April 5, 2025. \u003ccite>(Aryk Copley for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In Charlotte, North Carolina, protesters said they were supporting a variety of causes, from Social Security and education to immigration and women’s reproductive rights.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Regardless of your party, regardless of who you voted for, what’s going on today, what’s happening today is abhorrent,” said Britt Castillo, 35, of Charlotte. “It’s disgusting, and as broken as our current system might be, the way that the current administration is going about trying to fix things — it is not the way to do it. They’re not listening to the people.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034663\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034663\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1403.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1403.jpeg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1403-800x533.jpeg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1403-1020x680.jpeg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1403-160x107.jpeg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1403-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/IMG_1403-1920x1280.jpeg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Juniper Tinker Ward waves a homemade sign during a protest against Elon Musk and Donald Trump in Oakland on April 5, 2025. \u003ccite>(Aryk Copley for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story was reported by Dave Collins of The Associated Press, with contributions from AP’s Julie Carr Smyth in Columbus, Ohio, Fatima Hussein in West Palm Beach, Florida, and Erik Verduzco in Charlotte, North Carolina. KQED’s Billy Cruz contributed reporting from Oakland.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>The Golden State has a message for federal employees who’ve \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034414/rural-california-relies-on-the-trump-administration-for-jobs-now-theyre-bracing-for-cuts\">lost their jobs\u003c/a>: Come work for California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As the Trump administration carries out massive layoffs across federal agencies, California launched \u003ca href=\"https://www.calhr.ca.gov/Pages/latest-news.aspx\">an initiative\u003c/a> on Friday to recruit those displaced workers to thousands of vacant positions with the state.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Top recruitment priorities for the state’s 3,200 current job openings include \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12029182/federal-policy-turmoil-threatens-californias-wildfire-prevention-efforts\">firefighters\u003c/a>, clinical social workers and psychologists, Monica Erickson, chief deputy director of the California Department of Human Resources, told KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This is an incredible opportunity for California to be able to get workers that have incredible skill sets that California is looking for,” said Erickson, a state employee for 35 years. “We have great opportunities.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Tens of thousands of federal workers have been terminated or placed on administrative leave as President Trump and billionaire adviser Elon Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency shrinks agencies in a quest to reduce spending. Just this week, about 10,000 people were laid off from the Department of Health and Human Services, including hundreds at a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12033968/san-franciscos-hhs-office-close-federal-health-cuts-pelosi\">San Francisco office that was shut down\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12024152\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12024152\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/102425-Newsom-Trump-LA-Fires-AP-CM-03-copy.jpg\" alt=\"Two men wearing jackets and the man on the right wearing a black hat stand near each other talking.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1336\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/102425-Newsom-Trump-LA-Fires-AP-CM-03-copy.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/102425-Newsom-Trump-LA-Fires-AP-CM-03-copy-800x534.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/102425-Newsom-Trump-LA-Fires-AP-CM-03-copy-1020x681.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/102425-Newsom-Trump-LA-Fires-AP-CM-03-copy-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/102425-Newsom-Trump-LA-Fires-AP-CM-03-copy-1536x1026.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/102425-Newsom-Trump-LA-Fires-AP-CM-03-copy-1920x1283.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">President Donald Trump talks with Gov. Gavin Newsom after arriving on Air Force One at Los Angeles International Airport in Los Angeles on Jan. 24, 2025. \u003ccite>(Mark Schiefelbein/AP Photo)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Last month, Gov. Gavin Newsom \u003ca href=\"https://www.gov.ca.gov/2025/03/03/governor-newsom-orders-return-to-office/\">ordered\u003c/a> CalHR to take steps to recruit laid-off federal employees. That includes a new resource \u003ca href=\"https://workforcalifornia.ca.gov/federalworkers\">website\u003c/a> that aims to help former or current federal workers better understand California’s job application process and find openings that match their skills, particularly in fields such as firefighting, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12029178/trumps-mass-layoffs-noaa-cut-into-bay-area-weather-service\">weather forecasting\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12029795/california-scientists-left-adrift-mass-federal-layoffs-noaa\">science\u003c/a>, and medical and mental health.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“California values the skillset and experience federal workers bring to public service — and we want them to know that there is a place for them here in the Golden State,” Newsom said in a statement. “Recruiting these experienced professionals to fill key job openings in a variety of fields can help us now and into the future.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California is joining other states that are wooing former federal employees to fill jobs within their ranks. New York Gov. Kathy Hochul said a “You’re Hired” campaign that started in February has drawn more than \u003ca href=\"https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/youre-hired-governor-hochul-announces-more-1300-applications-received-new-york-launched#:~:text=Governor%20Kathy%20Hochul%20today%20updated,of%20Government%20Efficiency%20\">1,300 job applications\u003c/a> to state agencies and hired 28 candidates with federal work experience.[aside postID=news_12034221 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/250307-BERKELEY-SCIENCE-PROTEST-MD-06-KQED-1020x680.jpg']According to the Hawaii Department of Human Resources Development, the state has hired 12 former federal workers, with more in the pipeline, after receiving more than 2,200 applications since February.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hawaii Gov. Josh Green ordered the state to \u003ca href=\"https://governor.hawaii.gov/newsroom/office-of-the-governor-news-release-gov-green-signs-executive-order-for-expedited-state-hiring/\">expedite\u003c/a> its hiring process for federal workers, a step California has not yet taken, according to Erickson.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re certainly trying to focus on our federal workforce and bring them over by providing resources to them, videos to make it easy to hire, but the process is the same,” Erickson said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Applicants who’ve self-identified as being affected by federal job cuts have created 165 online accounts to apply for California state jobs since March 7, when CalHR started tracking this information. The agency does not know how many of these applicants have been hired, according to a spokesperson.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California’s new one-stop website for federal employees features guides to navigate the application process, examples of state positions that may have federal equivalency and a look at benefits available to California state workers such as employee pensions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>CalHR will hold a virtual training on Thursday tailored to former federal employees on how to apply for a state job, as well as future \u003ca href=\"https://workforcalifornia.ca.gov/events/\">hiring events\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"title": "Federal Workers Are Being Fired by the Thousands. California Wants to Hire Them | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>The Golden State has a message for federal employees who’ve \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034414/rural-california-relies-on-the-trump-administration-for-jobs-now-theyre-bracing-for-cuts\">lost their jobs\u003c/a>: Come work for California.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As the Trump administration carries out massive layoffs across federal agencies, California launched \u003ca href=\"https://www.calhr.ca.gov/Pages/latest-news.aspx\">an initiative\u003c/a> on Friday to recruit those displaced workers to thousands of vacant positions with the state.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Top recruitment priorities for the state’s 3,200 current job openings include \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12029182/federal-policy-turmoil-threatens-californias-wildfire-prevention-efforts\">firefighters\u003c/a>, clinical social workers and psychologists, Monica Erickson, chief deputy director of the California Department of Human Resources, told KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This is an incredible opportunity for California to be able to get workers that have incredible skill sets that California is looking for,” said Erickson, a state employee for 35 years. “We have great opportunities.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Tens of thousands of federal workers have been terminated or placed on administrative leave as President Trump and billionaire adviser Elon Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency shrinks agencies in a quest to reduce spending. Just this week, about 10,000 people were laid off from the Department of Health and Human Services, including hundreds at a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12033968/san-franciscos-hhs-office-close-federal-health-cuts-pelosi\">San Francisco office that was shut down\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12024152\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12024152\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/102425-Newsom-Trump-LA-Fires-AP-CM-03-copy.jpg\" alt=\"Two men wearing jackets and the man on the right wearing a black hat stand near each other talking.\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1336\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/102425-Newsom-Trump-LA-Fires-AP-CM-03-copy.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/102425-Newsom-Trump-LA-Fires-AP-CM-03-copy-800x534.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/102425-Newsom-Trump-LA-Fires-AP-CM-03-copy-1020x681.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/102425-Newsom-Trump-LA-Fires-AP-CM-03-copy-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/102425-Newsom-Trump-LA-Fires-AP-CM-03-copy-1536x1026.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/01/102425-Newsom-Trump-LA-Fires-AP-CM-03-copy-1920x1283.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">President Donald Trump talks with Gov. Gavin Newsom after arriving on Air Force One at Los Angeles International Airport in Los Angeles on Jan. 24, 2025. \u003ccite>(Mark Schiefelbein/AP Photo)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Last month, Gov. Gavin Newsom \u003ca href=\"https://www.gov.ca.gov/2025/03/03/governor-newsom-orders-return-to-office/\">ordered\u003c/a> CalHR to take steps to recruit laid-off federal employees. That includes a new resource \u003ca href=\"https://workforcalifornia.ca.gov/federalworkers\">website\u003c/a> that aims to help former or current federal workers better understand California’s job application process and find openings that match their skills, particularly in fields such as firefighting, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12029178/trumps-mass-layoffs-noaa-cut-into-bay-area-weather-service\">weather forecasting\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12029795/california-scientists-left-adrift-mass-federal-layoffs-noaa\">science\u003c/a>, and medical and mental health.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“California values the skillset and experience federal workers bring to public service — and we want them to know that there is a place for them here in the Golden State,” Newsom said in a statement. “Recruiting these experienced professionals to fill key job openings in a variety of fields can help us now and into the future.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California is joining other states that are wooing former federal employees to fill jobs within their ranks. New York Gov. Kathy Hochul said a “You’re Hired” campaign that started in February has drawn more than \u003ca href=\"https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/youre-hired-governor-hochul-announces-more-1300-applications-received-new-york-launched#:~:text=Governor%20Kathy%20Hochul%20today%20updated,of%20Government%20Efficiency%20\">1,300 job applications\u003c/a> to state agencies and hired 28 candidates with federal work experience.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>According to the Hawaii Department of Human Resources Development, the state has hired 12 former federal workers, with more in the pipeline, after receiving more than 2,200 applications since February.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hawaii Gov. Josh Green ordered the state to \u003ca href=\"https://governor.hawaii.gov/newsroom/office-of-the-governor-news-release-gov-green-signs-executive-order-for-expedited-state-hiring/\">expedite\u003c/a> its hiring process for federal workers, a step California has not yet taken, according to Erickson.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re certainly trying to focus on our federal workforce and bring them over by providing resources to them, videos to make it easy to hire, but the process is the same,” Erickson said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Applicants who’ve self-identified as being affected by federal job cuts have created 165 online accounts to apply for California state jobs since March 7, when CalHR started tracking this information. The agency does not know how many of these applicants have been hired, according to a spokesperson.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California’s new one-stop website for federal employees features guides to navigate the application process, examples of state positions that may have federal equivalency and a look at benefits available to California state workers such as employee pensions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>CalHR will hold a virtual training on Thursday tailored to former federal employees on how to apply for a state job, as well as future \u003ca href=\"https://workforcalifornia.ca.gov/events/\">hiring events\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "5-takeaways-from-tuesdays-elections-including-bad-news-for-elon-musk",
"title": "5 Takeaways From Tuesday's Elections, Including Bad News for Elon Musk",
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"headTitle": "5 Takeaways From Tuesday’s Elections, Including Bad News for Elon Musk | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>Democrats won a \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/04/01/nx-s1-5345862/wisconsin-supreme-court-crawford-schimel-election-results\">judicial election in Wisconsin\u003c/a> that saw a record amount of money spent, national attention and was something of a referendum on Elon Musk, who played a big role, as well as President Trump’s agenda by extension.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They also won a state schools superintendent race there, but Republicans got a win on a voter ID measure. And, in Florida, Republicans won two special elections by double-digits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So what should be made of all that 19 months from the 2026 midterm elections?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here are five takeaways:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>1. The results show some political headwinds for Trump and Republicans\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Susan Crawford, a liberal judge, helped keep the state Supreme Court leaning in Democrats’ direction in a race that saw nearly $70 million in advertising, according to the ad-tracking firm AdImpact, the most ever for a judicial race. That included \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/04/01/nx-s1-5345862/wisconsin-supreme-court-crawford-schimel-election-results\">some $20 million from Musk\u003c/a> (more on him below).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was the marquee race of the elections Tuesday in a state that was decided by 1 point in the 2024 presidential election, and Crawford won it handily, by 10 points with more than 95% of the vote in.[aside postID=news_12033066 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/paypal-mafia_web-img-1020x574.png']Republicans, on the other hand, won the two special elections in Florida by roughly 14 points each. But these are very red districts. Republican members of Congress, who had represented these seats before being plucked for the Trump administration, won them by more than 30 points in November, so Democrats ate into the margins significantly there as well — though indications were they might do even better. (These are the seats that were held by Mike Waltz, now the national security adviser, and Matt Gaetz, whom Trump wanted to be attorney general before his nomination was pulled over concerns that he lacked sufficient Republican support to be confirmed.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There were 60 Republican House members who won in 2024 by 15 points or less — and they might be concerned after these results, according to \u003ca href=\"https://ballotpedia.org/Election_results,_2024:_Congressional_margin_of_victory_analysis\">Ballotpedia\u003c/a>. The conservative \u003cem>Wall Street Journal\u003c/em> editorial board, well read in Trump world, is calling the results a “\u003ca href=\"https://www.wsj.com/opinion/wisconsin-supreme-court-election-susan-crawford-brad-schimel-florida-house-gop-jimmy-patronis-randy-fine-38db797f?mod=editorials_article_pos1\">MAGA backlash\u003c/a>.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s important to be careful to not overread the results of off-year elections — and Democrats did win a Wisconsin judicial seat in 2023, but lost the state in the presidential election. But there are early warning signs here for the GOP and a reminder that the energy is often with the out-party, which is why they have historically done so well in presidents’ first midterms. And these elections can be breadcrumbs on the path to success in midterms, especially if a president continues with a bold and divisive agenda.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>2. It was a very bad night for Elon Musk — and his days may be numbered as Trump’s right hand\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Musk went all in in the Wisconsin judicial race. Groups with the \u003ca href=\"https://www.forbes.com/real-time-billionaires/#513fea1e3d78\">world’s richest man’s\u003c/a> backing spent some $20 million. He also made an appearance in the state (wearing a cheese hat), offered $1 million checks to voters and even said “\u003ca href=\"https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2025/03/30/musk-says-destiny-of-humanity-rests-on-wisconsin-supreme-court-race/82705243007/\">the entire destiny of humanity\u003c/a>” could rest on the race.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Talk about raising the stakes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Trump is likely to do what he does — put a positive spin on the results or say everything is fine and point to the Florida elections (as he did in an \u003ca href=\"https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/114265493906125093\">ALLCAPS\u003c/a> social media post Tuesday night without mentioning the Wisconsin judicial result). But it likely isn’t making him happy, especially considering how much heat Musk and his DOGE group have taken. Musk’s favorability ratings have been a net-negative nationally — and were in Wisconsin too. Musk represented something of a heat shield for Trump on an unpopular way of making sweeping cuts to the government, but, after Tuesday’s results, how long can he remain in the public eye and not start to affect Trump’s political standing?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So far, Trump’s overall approval rating has been marginally higher than during his first term because of \u003ca href=\"https://news.gallup.com/poll/658661/republicans-men-push-trump-approval-higher-second-term.aspx\">strong GOP backing and because of men\u003c/a>. But an AP-NORC poll out this week showed Trump’s \u003ca href=\"https://apnorc.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/March-2025-topline-Trump-.pdf\">approval rating falling to 42% (PDF)\u003c/a>, and his \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/trump-poll-immigration-tariffs-trade-b7a430909606d6b8b27cfbc5049a32b4\">economic approval only at 40%\u003c/a>, compared to better marks he received on immigration. That’s especially telling on this day of reciprocal tariffs as his trade war is unpopular.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If Musk does start to lose luster in Trump’s eyes, it could be a result congressional Republicans are quietly happy about. After all, they won their two House seats in Florida, helping shore up their majority, and Wisconsin’s outcome might help move Musk and his blunt, unpopular agenda out of the spotlight.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By the way, Musk may be new to politics, but he violated a key rule of it — never put anything on your head you don’t normally wear, even Trump, who likes a good hat, \u003ca href=\"https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/donald-trump-jabs-michael-dukakis-over-tank-2/140795/\">knows about that one\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>3. Signs of how Democrats combat Trump — and what the base wants.\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>An easy — and somewhat lazy — framing of the internal battle within the Democratic Party is “progressive vs. moderate.” Largely, many in the party agree on the issues, with obvious exceptions on how far to go on certain things or when to push for them or not.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Right now, it is more fighting vs. acquiescence, of standing up vs. complacency.[aside postID=forum_2010101909107 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/03/GettyImages-651462930-1020x680.jpg']That was clear with how angry the “do something” Democratic base was when Senate leader Chuck Schumer allowed a GOP-led spending bill to pass last month to keep the government open. It’s also why so many on the left liked Sen. Cory Booker holding the floor of the Senate with an anti-Trump speech. It is now the longest speech ever in the chamber, more than 24 straight hours, \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/04/01/nx-s1-5347318/cory-booker-senate-speech\">breaking the record\u003c/a> held by the late Strom Thurmond, a \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2010/06/22/128020372/scott-beats-strom-thurmond-s-son-in-sc-for-gop-house\">racist South Carolina senator\u003c/a>, a fact Booker, who is Black, said he was “very aware” of.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The chairman of the Wisconsin Democratic Party summed up the split among Democrats.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t think that the most meaningful distinction within Democrats now is left versus center,” state party chair Ben Wikler said in MSNBC’s \u003cem>Morning Joe\u003c/em>. “I think it’s actually going on your front foot and fighting back versus rolling over and playing dead.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He noted that Crawford was against an abortion ban at the court, that Jill Underly, the state schools chief, ran against the dismantling of Department of Education, and that they both were against Musk casting “aside any check and balance.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“These are broadly held by progressives, by centrists, by everything in between,” Wickler said. “The critical thing is to go out there and fight. It is to make the case to voters; it is to be omnipresent, to communicate, travel everywhere, and I think the Democrats who do that in the big-tent coalition that makes up the Democratic Party, the anti-MAGA coalition, you’re going to see a lot of success from people who have that energy and that conviction. That’s what voters are looking for right now.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>4. The political realignment is helping Democrats in off-year elections\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Both parties poured millions of outside dollars into these races, and that’s because off-year and special elections are hard to mobilize voters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The $70 million spent on ads alone in Wisconsin was the \u003ca href=\"https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/most-expensive-judicial-election-ever\">most ever for a judicial race\u003c/a> and lots of it came from outside the state.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In Florida, the 6th congressional district election for Waltz’s seat — the one Trump and the GOP were most concerned about — would have been in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.fec.gov/resources/campaign-finance-statistics/2024/tables/congressional/ConCand8e_2024_21m.pdf\">top 20 for most spending by a single candidate (PDF)\u003c/a> for any House race the \u003cem>entire\u003c/em> 2024 cycle, and that was over 20 months. This was two. The Democrat raised about $10 million in that time and spent more than $8 million, while the Republican spent less than $1 million, as of the candidates’ March 12 filings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Turnout wasn’t bad. It’s always lower in those kinds of races than in presidential elections — and that, of course, was the case in both states. \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/04/01/nx-s1-5345862/wisconsin-supreme-court-crawford-schimel-election-results\">In Wisconsin\u003c/a>, roughly 2.4 million ballots were cast (with 95% in), about 30% less than in November. In Florida, fewer than 200,000 voters went to the polls in each congressional district. In 2024, it was \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/projects/election-results-2024/florida/?r=0\">more than double that\u003c/a>. So money isn’t everything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But it’s a reminder that firing up the bases is key in off-year and midterm elections —and that the realignment of college-educated voters, who have higher turnout rates, toward Democrats is helping them in these kinds of elections.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>5. Voter ID is an issue that continues to heavily lean right\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>It should be noted that the same voters who voted for a liberal judge in Wisconsin also \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/04/01/us/elections/results-wisconsin-question.html\">overwhelmingly approved\u003c/a> a measure requiring voter ID.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s something that’s already state law; this enshrined it in the state constitution.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A \u003ca href=\"https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/02/07/bipartisan-support-for-early-in-person-voting-voter-id-election-day-national-holiday/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Pew poll\u003c/a> last year found 81% in favor of requiring people to show government-issued photo ID to vote. That included 69% of Democrats. Few things get that level of bipartisan support.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So, yes, Democrats can take Tuesday as one of the first bits of good news they’ve had since the 2024 presidential election. But they also have to be aware that there are lots of issues that are still center-right, including voter ID and many measures meant to curb immigration — especially when the party is seeing \u003ca href=\"https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/16/politics/cnn-poll-democrats/index.html\">record\u003c/a> \u003ca href=\"https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/5224072-democrats-low-approval-rating/\">lows\u003c/a> in \u003ca href=\"https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/democratic-party-hits-new-polling-low-voters-want-fight-trump-harder-rcna196161\">favorability\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "With 19 months to go to the midterms, the judicial election in Wisconsin was something of a referendum on Elon Musk and President Trump's agenda. Here are five takeaways from recent elections there, and in Florida.",
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"title": "5 Takeaways From Tuesday's Elections, Including Bad News for Elon Musk | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Democrats won a \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/04/01/nx-s1-5345862/wisconsin-supreme-court-crawford-schimel-election-results\">judicial election in Wisconsin\u003c/a> that saw a record amount of money spent, national attention and was something of a referendum on Elon Musk, who played a big role, as well as President Trump’s agenda by extension.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They also won a state schools superintendent race there, but Republicans got a win on a voter ID measure. And, in Florida, Republicans won two special elections by double-digits.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So what should be made of all that 19 months from the 2026 midterm elections?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here are five takeaways:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>1. The results show some political headwinds for Trump and Republicans\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Susan Crawford, a liberal judge, helped keep the state Supreme Court leaning in Democrats’ direction in a race that saw nearly $70 million in advertising, according to the ad-tracking firm AdImpact, the most ever for a judicial race. That included \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/04/01/nx-s1-5345862/wisconsin-supreme-court-crawford-schimel-election-results\">some $20 million from Musk\u003c/a> (more on him below).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It was the marquee race of the elections Tuesday in a state that was decided by 1 point in the 2024 presidential election, and Crawford won it handily, by 10 points with more than 95% of the vote in.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Republicans, on the other hand, won the two special elections in Florida by roughly 14 points each. But these are very red districts. Republican members of Congress, who had represented these seats before being plucked for the Trump administration, won them by more than 30 points in November, so Democrats ate into the margins significantly there as well — though indications were they might do even better. (These are the seats that were held by Mike Waltz, now the national security adviser, and Matt Gaetz, whom Trump wanted to be attorney general before his nomination was pulled over concerns that he lacked sufficient Republican support to be confirmed.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There were 60 Republican House members who won in 2024 by 15 points or less — and they might be concerned after these results, according to \u003ca href=\"https://ballotpedia.org/Election_results,_2024:_Congressional_margin_of_victory_analysis\">Ballotpedia\u003c/a>. The conservative \u003cem>Wall Street Journal\u003c/em> editorial board, well read in Trump world, is calling the results a “\u003ca href=\"https://www.wsj.com/opinion/wisconsin-supreme-court-election-susan-crawford-brad-schimel-florida-house-gop-jimmy-patronis-randy-fine-38db797f?mod=editorials_article_pos1\">MAGA backlash\u003c/a>.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s important to be careful to not overread the results of off-year elections — and Democrats did win a Wisconsin judicial seat in 2023, but lost the state in the presidential election. But there are early warning signs here for the GOP and a reminder that the energy is often with the out-party, which is why they have historically done so well in presidents’ first midterms. And these elections can be breadcrumbs on the path to success in midterms, especially if a president continues with a bold and divisive agenda.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>2. It was a very bad night for Elon Musk — and his days may be numbered as Trump’s right hand\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Musk went all in in the Wisconsin judicial race. Groups with the \u003ca href=\"https://www.forbes.com/real-time-billionaires/#513fea1e3d78\">world’s richest man’s\u003c/a> backing spent some $20 million. He also made an appearance in the state (wearing a cheese hat), offered $1 million checks to voters and even said “\u003ca href=\"https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2025/03/30/musk-says-destiny-of-humanity-rests-on-wisconsin-supreme-court-race/82705243007/\">the entire destiny of humanity\u003c/a>” could rest on the race.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Talk about raising the stakes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Trump is likely to do what he does — put a positive spin on the results or say everything is fine and point to the Florida elections (as he did in an \u003ca href=\"https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/114265493906125093\">ALLCAPS\u003c/a> social media post Tuesday night without mentioning the Wisconsin judicial result). But it likely isn’t making him happy, especially considering how much heat Musk and his DOGE group have taken. Musk’s favorability ratings have been a net-negative nationally — and were in Wisconsin too. Musk represented something of a heat shield for Trump on an unpopular way of making sweeping cuts to the government, but, after Tuesday’s results, how long can he remain in the public eye and not start to affect Trump’s political standing?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So far, Trump’s overall approval rating has been marginally higher than during his first term because of \u003ca href=\"https://news.gallup.com/poll/658661/republicans-men-push-trump-approval-higher-second-term.aspx\">strong GOP backing and because of men\u003c/a>. But an AP-NORC poll out this week showed Trump’s \u003ca href=\"https://apnorc.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/March-2025-topline-Trump-.pdf\">approval rating falling to 42% (PDF)\u003c/a>, and his \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/trump-poll-immigration-tariffs-trade-b7a430909606d6b8b27cfbc5049a32b4\">economic approval only at 40%\u003c/a>, compared to better marks he received on immigration. That’s especially telling on this day of reciprocal tariffs as his trade war is unpopular.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If Musk does start to lose luster in Trump’s eyes, it could be a result congressional Republicans are quietly happy about. After all, they won their two House seats in Florida, helping shore up their majority, and Wisconsin’s outcome might help move Musk and his blunt, unpopular agenda out of the spotlight.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By the way, Musk may be new to politics, but he violated a key rule of it — never put anything on your head you don’t normally wear, even Trump, who likes a good hat, \u003ca href=\"https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/donald-trump-jabs-michael-dukakis-over-tank-2/140795/\">knows about that one\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>3. Signs of how Democrats combat Trump — and what the base wants.\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>An easy — and somewhat lazy — framing of the internal battle within the Democratic Party is “progressive vs. moderate.” Largely, many in the party agree on the issues, with obvious exceptions on how far to go on certain things or when to push for them or not.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Right now, it is more fighting vs. acquiescence, of standing up vs. complacency.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>That was clear with how angry the “do something” Democratic base was when Senate leader Chuck Schumer allowed a GOP-led spending bill to pass last month to keep the government open. It’s also why so many on the left liked Sen. Cory Booker holding the floor of the Senate with an anti-Trump speech. It is now the longest speech ever in the chamber, more than 24 straight hours, \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/04/01/nx-s1-5347318/cory-booker-senate-speech\">breaking the record\u003c/a> held by the late Strom Thurmond, a \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2010/06/22/128020372/scott-beats-strom-thurmond-s-son-in-sc-for-gop-house\">racist South Carolina senator\u003c/a>, a fact Booker, who is Black, said he was “very aware” of.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The chairman of the Wisconsin Democratic Party summed up the split among Democrats.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I don’t think that the most meaningful distinction within Democrats now is left versus center,” state party chair Ben Wikler said in MSNBC’s \u003cem>Morning Joe\u003c/em>. “I think it’s actually going on your front foot and fighting back versus rolling over and playing dead.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He noted that Crawford was against an abortion ban at the court, that Jill Underly, the state schools chief, ran against the dismantling of Department of Education, and that they both were against Musk casting “aside any check and balance.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“These are broadly held by progressives, by centrists, by everything in between,” Wickler said. “The critical thing is to go out there and fight. It is to make the case to voters; it is to be omnipresent, to communicate, travel everywhere, and I think the Democrats who do that in the big-tent coalition that makes up the Democratic Party, the anti-MAGA coalition, you’re going to see a lot of success from people who have that energy and that conviction. That’s what voters are looking for right now.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>4. The political realignment is helping Democrats in off-year elections\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Both parties poured millions of outside dollars into these races, and that’s because off-year and special elections are hard to mobilize voters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The $70 million spent on ads alone in Wisconsin was the \u003ca href=\"https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/most-expensive-judicial-election-ever\">most ever for a judicial race\u003c/a> and lots of it came from outside the state.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In Florida, the 6th congressional district election for Waltz’s seat — the one Trump and the GOP were most concerned about — would have been in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.fec.gov/resources/campaign-finance-statistics/2024/tables/congressional/ConCand8e_2024_21m.pdf\">top 20 for most spending by a single candidate (PDF)\u003c/a> for any House race the \u003cem>entire\u003c/em> 2024 cycle, and that was over 20 months. This was two. The Democrat raised about $10 million in that time and spent more than $8 million, while the Republican spent less than $1 million, as of the candidates’ March 12 filings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Turnout wasn’t bad. It’s always lower in those kinds of races than in presidential elections — and that, of course, was the case in both states. \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/04/01/nx-s1-5345862/wisconsin-supreme-court-crawford-schimel-election-results\">In Wisconsin\u003c/a>, roughly 2.4 million ballots were cast (with 95% in), about 30% less than in November. In Florida, fewer than 200,000 voters went to the polls in each congressional district. In 2024, it was \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/projects/election-results-2024/florida/?r=0\">more than double that\u003c/a>. So money isn’t everything.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But it’s a reminder that firing up the bases is key in off-year and midterm elections —and that the realignment of college-educated voters, who have higher turnout rates, toward Democrats is helping them in these kinds of elections.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>5. Voter ID is an issue that continues to heavily lean right\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>It should be noted that the same voters who voted for a liberal judge in Wisconsin also \u003ca href=\"https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/04/01/us/elections/results-wisconsin-question.html\">overwhelmingly approved\u003c/a> a measure requiring voter ID.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s something that’s already state law; this enshrined it in the state constitution.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A \u003ca href=\"https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/02/07/bipartisan-support-for-early-in-person-voting-voter-id-election-day-national-holiday/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Pew poll\u003c/a> last year found 81% in favor of requiring people to show government-issued photo ID to vote. That included 69% of Democrats. Few things get that level of bipartisan support.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So, yes, Democrats can take Tuesday as one of the first bits of good news they’ve had since the 2024 presidential election. But they also have to be aware that there are lots of issues that are still center-right, including voter ID and many measures meant to curb immigration — especially when the party is seeing \u003ca href=\"https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/16/politics/cnn-poll-democrats/index.html\">record\u003c/a> \u003ca href=\"https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/5224072-democrats-low-approval-rating/\">lows\u003c/a> in \u003ca href=\"https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/democratic-party-hits-new-polling-low-voters-want-fight-trump-harder-rcna196161\">favorability\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"title": "The Wisconsin Supreme Court Vote Is Getting National Attention and Millions From Musk",
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"headTitle": "The Wisconsin Supreme Court Vote Is Getting National Attention and Millions From Musk | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>Many of the country’s most contested issues and hottest partisan politics are playing out in a race for the Wisconsin Supreme Court. The election is Tuesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the state level, abortion rights, voting rights and the powers of public employee unions could all be in \u003ca href=\"https://www.wuwm.com/meet-the-candidates-running-in-the-2025-wisconsin-supreme-court-election\">the balance in future court rulings.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And impacting the national scene, the court could determine whether the state redraws its congressional districts along lines that end up narrowing or ending the majority that Republicans hold in the U.S. House of Representatives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Money is pouring in from around the country, with millions of dollars in support of the conservative candidate coming from billionaire Elon Musk, who visited the state Sunday night for a rally donning a cheesehead hat. \u003ca href=\"https://www.wpr.org/news/elon-musk-wisconsin-supreme-court-race-green-bay-visit-million-dollar-checks\">He handed out $1 million\u003c/a> to two people after a legal back-and-forth on whether the money amounted to bribing voters. The liberal candidate has received millions in support from billionaire George Soros, Illinois Democratic Gov. JB Pritzker, a Wisconsin philanthropist and others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Spending on both sides is expected to reach $100 million, \u003ca href=\"https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/most-expensive-races\">which is more than all but a few U.S. Senate \u003c/a>races each cost last year. It’s the most \u003ca href=\"https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/most-expensive-judicial-election-ever\">expensive state judge race ever\u003c/a>, says The Brennan Center for Justice, a non-partisan think tank and democracy advocacy group.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wisconsin’s a swing state where President Trump narrowly defeated Kamala Harris in 2024. There’s a Democratic governor, Tony Evers, and a Republican-controlled legislature. Tuesday’s vote could be the first measure of Trump’s popularity and Democrats’ energy after the election five months ago. It could also be a referendum on \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/03/03/nx-s1-5300147/why-elon-musk-is-pouring-money-into-a-state-supreme-court-race-in-wisconsin\">Trump’s close adviser, Musk.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034030\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1600px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034030\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-1-copy.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1600\" height=\"1067\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-1-copy.jpg 1600w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-1-copy-800x534.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-1-copy-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-1-copy-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-1-copy-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1600px) 100vw, 1600px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Wisconsin Supreme Court candidates Brad Schimel and Susan Crawford shake hands before a debate Wednesday, March 12, 2025, in Milwaukee. \u003ccite>(Morry Gash/AP Photo)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Two county judges face off for a seat opening on the court\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Supreme Court races are non-partisan in Wisconsin, so there won’t be a “D” or an “R” next to the justices’ names on the ballot, but they are generally described as either liberal or conservative. This race would replace one of the four liberal-leaning judges on the seven-judge court for a 10-year term.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.wuwm.com/meet-the-candidates-running-in-the-2025-wisconsin-supreme-court-election\">Both candidates are county judges\u003c/a>. Brad Schimel is a Waukesha County judge and former Republican Wisconsin attorney general. He’s endorsed by Trump. Dane County Judge Susan Crawford was endorsed by former President Barack Obama last week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Crawford worked as an assistant state attorney general and as chief legal counsel for former Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle. Schimel was Waukesha’s district attorney and was elected state attorney general but lost a bid for a second term in that position in 2018.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.wpr.org/news/campaign-finance-wisconsin-supreme-court-crawford-schimel-100m\">With the heavy spending,\u003c/a> voters are being barraged with ads on television, websites and mail by both campaigns and independent groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034033\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1600px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034033\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1600\" height=\"1205\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-1.jpg 1600w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-1-800x603.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-1-1020x768.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-1-160x121.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-1-1536x1157.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1600px) 100vw, 1600px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Waukesha County Judge Brad Schimel speaks to supporters in Waukesha, Wis., before boarding his campaign bus on March 22. \u003ccite>(Chuck Quirmbach/WUWM)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>The issues: Abortion rights, voter ID, unions\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The race has teed up many of the same issues as the last presidential election. On abortion rights, Crawford accuses Schimel of supporting an 1849 state law that is still on the books and before the court. It was used to block abortion in Wisconsin for over a year after the U.S. Supreme Court overturned the federal right to abortion in 2022. Currently, abortion is legal up to about 20 weeks of pregnancy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=news_12033066 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/paypal-mafia_web-img-1020x574.png']\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Schimel acknowledges he has said the 1849 law is valid but says that abortion should be up to “\u003ca href=\"https://www.wuwm.com/government-politics/2025-03-13/crawford-schimel-square-off-over-abortion-trump-and-musk-in-wisconsin-supreme-court-debate\">the will of the people.\u003c/a>” Democrats note he’s \u003ca href=\"https://archive.jsonline.com/blogs/news/280308632.html\">opposed abortion in the past\u003c/a>. Crawford talks about how she represented Planned Parenthood of Wisconsin when she was a private attorney.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wisconsin is also home to one of the country’s biggest battles over labor rights. As an attorney, Crawford worked for teachers opposed to a 2011 law prohibiting most public employees from collective bargaining. A judge\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2024/12/07/nx-s1-5217931/wisconsin-court-strikes-down-controversial-law-in-a-win-for-labor\"> recently blocked that law,\u003c/a> which could be headed to the state supreme court.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Meanwhile, Schimel has said he’ll vote yes on a measure also on the ballot Tuesday to place voter ID requirements in the state constitution. Crawford says she doesn’t think a judicial candidate should take a public position on something that could end up being interpreted by the court.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Schimel campaign has also deployed an issue that GOP candidates say worked for them in 2024 — opposition to transgender rights. One campaign ad features a woman saying Crawford “sides with” radicals in favor of allowing “transitioning male teachers” in girls’ bathrooms at school. Advocates for transgender rights say it’s an example of fearmongering.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034034\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1600px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034034\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-1-copy-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1600\" height=\"1205\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-1-copy-1.jpg 1600w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-1-copy-1-800x603.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-1-copy-1-1020x768.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-1-copy-1-160x121.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-1-copy-1-1536x1157.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1600px) 100vw, 1600px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Dane County Judge Susan Crawford, candidate for the Wisconsin Supreme Court, prepares to speak at a campaign stop at Racine County Democratic Party headquarters. \u003ccite>(Chuck Quirmbach/WUWM)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Musk’s millions, his paid petition and the outside money\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Elon Musk and groups linked to him have reportedly spent at least $20 million in support of Schimel. The Associated Press reports that they have run misleading \u003ca href=\"https://www.wokv.com/news/politics/group-funded-by-elon/JBIAGCSPRNBF5OQFMTVOP3B4AU/\">ads that appear to be from the Crawford\u003c/a> camp and highlight controversial buzzwords. Musk has also offered $100 to anyone who signs a petition against “activist judges” and gave away \u003ca href=\"https://www.wpr.org/news/elon-musk-wisconsin-visit-giveaway-supreme-court-race-schimel-crawford\">$1 million to two petition signers\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Musk says he’s interested in the race because the court has power over redistricting for congressional elections and that if Crawford wins, “then the Democrats will attempt to \u003ca href=\"https://x.com/america/status/1903560997685891140\">redraw the districts\u003c/a> and cause Wisconsin to lose two Republican seats.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Crawford supporters have highlighted Musk’s involvement. “Elon Musk is really trying to buy a seat on the Wisconsin Supreme Court,” \u003ca>Crawford says.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I have no control over whatever any outside group does. I will enforce the law. I will apply the law the way the legislature has written it,” Schimel said in the one campaign debate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Musk has a matter in Wisconsin courts as CEO of Tesla. In January, the automaker sued seeking an \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/tesla-musk-wisconsin-supreme-court-dealerships-101d7608d69dda61aeaf6ebee7903d2b\">exemption from a state law \u003c/a>that bans car manufacturers from selling directly to consumers — as Tesla does — instead of going through dealers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Crawford says his spending far exceeds her top donors. Her biggest financial backer appears to be Wisconsin philanthropist Lynde Uihlein, who the Brennan Center says has given $6.2 million. Soros has given $2 million.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story was written by NPR’s Larry Kaplow with reporting from Chuck Quirmbach and Maayan Silver of WUWM and Rich Kremer and Anya van Wagtendonk of Wisconsin Public Radio.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "Abortion rights, voting rights, the powers of public employee unions and a redrawing of congressional districts that end up narrowing or ending GOP majorities in the US House of Representatives could all be in the balance in Wisconsin's future court rulings.",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Many of the country’s most contested issues and hottest partisan politics are playing out in a race for the Wisconsin Supreme Court. The election is Tuesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At the state level, abortion rights, voting rights and the powers of public employee unions could all be in \u003ca href=\"https://www.wuwm.com/meet-the-candidates-running-in-the-2025-wisconsin-supreme-court-election\">the balance in future court rulings.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And impacting the national scene, the court could determine whether the state redraws its congressional districts along lines that end up narrowing or ending the majority that Republicans hold in the U.S. House of Representatives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Money is pouring in from around the country, with millions of dollars in support of the conservative candidate coming from billionaire Elon Musk, who visited the state Sunday night for a rally donning a cheesehead hat. \u003ca href=\"https://www.wpr.org/news/elon-musk-wisconsin-supreme-court-race-green-bay-visit-million-dollar-checks\">He handed out $1 million\u003c/a> to two people after a legal back-and-forth on whether the money amounted to bribing voters. The liberal candidate has received millions in support from billionaire George Soros, Illinois Democratic Gov. JB Pritzker, a Wisconsin philanthropist and others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Spending on both sides is expected to reach $100 million, \u003ca href=\"https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/most-expensive-races\">which is more than all but a few U.S. Senate \u003c/a>races each cost last year. It’s the most \u003ca href=\"https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/most-expensive-judicial-election-ever\">expensive state judge race ever\u003c/a>, says The Brennan Center for Justice, a non-partisan think tank and democracy advocacy group.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wisconsin’s a swing state where President Trump narrowly defeated Kamala Harris in 2024. There’s a Democratic governor, Tony Evers, and a Republican-controlled legislature. Tuesday’s vote could be the first measure of Trump’s popularity and Democrats’ energy after the election five months ago. It could also be a referendum on \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/03/03/nx-s1-5300147/why-elon-musk-is-pouring-money-into-a-state-supreme-court-race-in-wisconsin\">Trump’s close adviser, Musk.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034030\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1600px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034030\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-1-copy.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1600\" height=\"1067\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-1-copy.jpg 1600w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-1-copy-800x534.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-1-copy-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-1-copy-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-1-copy-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1600px) 100vw, 1600px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Wisconsin Supreme Court candidates Brad Schimel and Susan Crawford shake hands before a debate Wednesday, March 12, 2025, in Milwaukee. \u003ccite>(Morry Gash/AP Photo)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Two county judges face off for a seat opening on the court\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Supreme Court races are non-partisan in Wisconsin, so there won’t be a “D” or an “R” next to the justices’ names on the ballot, but they are generally described as either liberal or conservative. This race would replace one of the four liberal-leaning judges on the seven-judge court for a 10-year term.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.wuwm.com/meet-the-candidates-running-in-the-2025-wisconsin-supreme-court-election\">Both candidates are county judges\u003c/a>. Brad Schimel is a Waukesha County judge and former Republican Wisconsin attorney general. He’s endorsed by Trump. Dane County Judge Susan Crawford was endorsed by former President Barack Obama last week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Crawford worked as an assistant state attorney general and as chief legal counsel for former Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle. Schimel was Waukesha’s district attorney and was elected state attorney general but lost a bid for a second term in that position in 2018.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.wpr.org/news/campaign-finance-wisconsin-supreme-court-crawford-schimel-100m\">With the heavy spending,\u003c/a> voters are being barraged with ads on television, websites and mail by both campaigns and independent groups.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034033\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1600px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034033\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1600\" height=\"1205\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-1.jpg 1600w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-1-800x603.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-1-1020x768.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-1-160x121.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-copy-1-1536x1157.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1600px) 100vw, 1600px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Waukesha County Judge Brad Schimel speaks to supporters in Waukesha, Wis., before boarding his campaign bus on March 22. \u003ccite>(Chuck Quirmbach/WUWM)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>The issues: Abortion rights, voter ID, unions\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>The race has teed up many of the same issues as the last presidential election. On abortion rights, Crawford accuses Schimel of supporting an 1849 state law that is still on the books and before the court. It was used to block abortion in Wisconsin for over a year after the U.S. Supreme Court overturned the federal right to abortion in 2022. Currently, abortion is legal up to about 20 weeks of pregnancy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Schimel acknowledges he has said the 1849 law is valid but says that abortion should be up to “\u003ca href=\"https://www.wuwm.com/government-politics/2025-03-13/crawford-schimel-square-off-over-abortion-trump-and-musk-in-wisconsin-supreme-court-debate\">the will of the people.\u003c/a>” Democrats note he’s \u003ca href=\"https://archive.jsonline.com/blogs/news/280308632.html\">opposed abortion in the past\u003c/a>. Crawford talks about how she represented Planned Parenthood of Wisconsin when she was a private attorney.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Wisconsin is also home to one of the country’s biggest battles over labor rights. As an attorney, Crawford worked for teachers opposed to a 2011 law prohibiting most public employees from collective bargaining. A judge\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2024/12/07/nx-s1-5217931/wisconsin-court-strikes-down-controversial-law-in-a-win-for-labor\"> recently blocked that law,\u003c/a> which could be headed to the state supreme court.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Meanwhile, Schimel has said he’ll vote yes on a measure also on the ballot Tuesday to place voter ID requirements in the state constitution. Crawford says she doesn’t think a judicial candidate should take a public position on something that could end up being interpreted by the court.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Schimel campaign has also deployed an issue that GOP candidates say worked for them in 2024 — opposition to transgender rights. One campaign ad features a woman saying Crawford “sides with” radicals in favor of allowing “transitioning male teachers” in girls’ bathrooms at school. Advocates for transgender rights say it’s an example of fearmongering.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12034034\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1600px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12034034\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-1-copy-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1600\" height=\"1205\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-1-copy-1.jpg 1600w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-1-copy-1-800x603.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-1-copy-1-1020x768.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-1-copy-1-160x121.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/04/npr.brightspotcdn-1-copy-1-1536x1157.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1600px) 100vw, 1600px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Dane County Judge Susan Crawford, candidate for the Wisconsin Supreme Court, prepares to speak at a campaign stop at Racine County Democratic Party headquarters. \u003ccite>(Chuck Quirmbach/WUWM)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003ch2>Musk’s millions, his paid petition and the outside money\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Elon Musk and groups linked to him have reportedly spent at least $20 million in support of Schimel. The Associated Press reports that they have run misleading \u003ca href=\"https://www.wokv.com/news/politics/group-funded-by-elon/JBIAGCSPRNBF5OQFMTVOP3B4AU/\">ads that appear to be from the Crawford\u003c/a> camp and highlight controversial buzzwords. Musk has also offered $100 to anyone who signs a petition against “activist judges” and gave away \u003ca href=\"https://www.wpr.org/news/elon-musk-wisconsin-visit-giveaway-supreme-court-race-schimel-crawford\">$1 million to two petition signers\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Musk says he’s interested in the race because the court has power over redistricting for congressional elections and that if Crawford wins, “then the Democrats will attempt to \u003ca href=\"https://x.com/america/status/1903560997685891140\">redraw the districts\u003c/a> and cause Wisconsin to lose two Republican seats.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Crawford supporters have highlighted Musk’s involvement. “Elon Musk is really trying to buy a seat on the Wisconsin Supreme Court,” \u003ca>Crawford says.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I have no control over whatever any outside group does. I will enforce the law. I will apply the law the way the legislature has written it,” Schimel said in the one campaign debate.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Musk has a matter in Wisconsin courts as CEO of Tesla. In January, the automaker sued seeking an \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/tesla-musk-wisconsin-supreme-court-dealerships-101d7608d69dda61aeaf6ebee7903d2b\">exemption from a state law \u003c/a>that bans car manufacturers from selling directly to consumers — as Tesla does — instead of going through dealers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Crawford says his spending far exceeds her top donors. Her biggest financial backer appears to be Wisconsin philanthropist Lynde Uihlein, who the Brennan Center says has given $6.2 million. Soros has given $2 million.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This story was written by NPR’s Larry Kaplow with reporting from Chuck Quirmbach and Maayan Silver of WUWM and Rich Kremer and Anya van Wagtendonk of Wisconsin Public Radio.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>Crowds protesting billionaire Elon Musk’s purge of the U.S. government under President Donald Trump began amassing outside Tesla dealerships throughout the U.S. and in some cities in Europe on Saturday in the latest attempt to dent the fortune of the world’s richest man.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The protesters are trying to escalate a movement targeting Tesla dealerships and vehicles in opposition to Musk’s role as the head of the newly created Department of of Government Efficiency, or DOGE, where he’s gained access to sensitive data and shuttered entire agencies as he attempts to slash government spending. Most of Musk’s estimated $340 billion fortune consists of the stock he holds in the electric vehicle company that he continues to run while also working alongside Trump.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Earlier protests have been somewhat sporadic. Saturday marked the first attempt to surround all 277 of the automaker’s showrooms and service centers in the U.S. in hopes of deepening \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/tesla-sales-2024-drop-electric-vehicles-69af17c4e606625694af8293db25b2f3\">a recent decline in the company’s sales.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hundreds of protesters gathered in San Francisco, filling the entire sidewalk in front of the Van Ness Street Tesla dealership, with even more protesters on the sidewalk across the street and in the median. Most were carrying homemade signs, some of which read “Musk is stealing from us” and “Musk must go.” Passing cars frequently honked in support — including some people in Teslas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Protest organizer Patty Moddelmog said “Elon Musk is not worried about laying off hundreds of thousands of employees, but he’s very worried about his bottom line.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Protester Felicia Becerra works for the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs which terminated nearly 2,000 employees under Musk and President Trump, a move that has been the subject of lawsuits, at least one of which resulted in many of those same workers being reinstated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There are certainly cuts that are happening that are going to impact the infrastructure that the VA is dependent on,” said Becerra. “Eventually it’s going to hit the veterans I think once they start cutting call center employees, once they start cutting the people that manage claims, it’s going to hit a lot of veterans and not just the people who are employees.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=forum_2010101909107 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2025/03/GettyImages-651462930-1020x680.jpg']\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hundreds also gathered at the Tesla dealership in Berkeley, playing music and dancing as they blocked off Fourth Street, waving signs that read “Solve All Budget Issues: Tax Elon Musk,” “My Dad Works for the Government but He’s Not a Waste,” and “Turd Reich,” among others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Local Kate Klaire said she came out to Berkeley to be part of a “global uprising around the world … because every single thing that’s going on right now is threatening our democracy.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Protester Kent Sparing from Albany said, “If we wanted to fund everything, we could just simply tax [Elon Musk] what he should be paying in taxes.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Berkeley local and self-described “dangerous immigrant” Tony Hansen said “I’ve been here for more than 50 years and I’ve paid plenty of taxes and I believe in it. That’s why I’m here.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There were protests in other parts of the Bay Area as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Hey, hey, ho, ho, Elon Musk has got to go!” several dozen people chanted outside a showroom in Dublin, California, about 35 miles east of San Francisco, while a smaller cluster of Trump supporters waved American flags across the street.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By early afternoon, crowds ranging from a few dozen to hundreds of protesters had flocked to Tesla locations in New Jersey, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York, Maryland, Minnesota and the automaker’s home state of Texas. Pictures posted on social media accounts showed protesters brandishing signs such as \u003ca href=\"https://bsky.app/profile/pepsy-the-whippet.bsky.social/post/3lljrdz5pzs2l\">“Honk if you hate Elon”\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://bsky.app/profile/jimmyflannigan.bsky.social/post/3lljq36ryck2p\">“Fight the billionaire broligarchy.”\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12033757\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1024px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12033757\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2207532216.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2207532216.jpg 1024w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2207532216-800x534.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2207532216-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2207532216-160x107.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Weekly demonstrations continue outside of Tesla stores to protest Elon Musk and his role at the Department of Government Efficiency, March 29, 2025, in the West Village neighborhood of New York City. \u003ccite>(Andrew Lichtenstein/Corbis via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The Tesla Takedown movement also hoped to rally protestors at more than 230 Tesla locations in other parts of the world. Although the turnouts in Europe weren’t as large as the crowds in the U.S., the anti-Musk sentiment was similar.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>About two dozen protesters held signs lambasting Musk outside a Tesla dealership in London as passing cars and trucks tooted horns in support.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One of the signs displayed at the London protest showed a photo of Musk next to an image of Adolf Hitler making the Nazi salute — a \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/musk-gesture-salute-antisemitism-0070dae53c7a73397b104ae645877535\">gesture that Musk has been accused of reprising\u003c/a> shortly after Trump’s Jan. 20 inauguration. A person in a tyrannosaurus rex costume held another sign with a picture of Musk’s straight-arm gesture that said, “You thought the Nazis were extinct. Don’t buy a Swasticar.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12033752\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1024px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12033752\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2206911491.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1024\" height=\"768\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2206911491.jpg 1024w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2206911491-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2206911491-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2206911491-160x120.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A group of protesters gather outside the Royal Park Tesla dealership in London, United Kingdom, on March 29, 2025. Demonstrators hold signs, including one reading ‘Don’t buy a Tesla,’ and call for action against Tesla and Elon Musk. \u003ccite>(Aysu Bicer/Anadolu via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We just want to get loud, make noise, make people aware of the problems that we’re facing,” said Cam Whitten, an American who showed up at the London protest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Tesla Takedown was organized by a group of supporters that included disillusioned owners of the automaker’s vehicles, celebrities such as actor John Cusack, and at least one Democratic Party lawmaker, Rep. Jasmine Crockett from Dallas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m going to keep screaming in the halls of Congress. I just need you all to make sure you all keep screaming in the streets,” Crockett said during a \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APHo7bea_p4\">Tesla Takedown organizing call\u003c/a> held earlier this month.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some people opposed to Musk have gone beyond protests and set the automaker’s vehicles on fire and committed \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/tesla-vandalism-musk-trump-domestic-extremism-7576c03393a733eaf34b793e86ad1a6f\">other acts of vandalism\u003c/a> that U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi has decried as domestic terrorism. Musk indicated he was dumbfounded by the attacks during a March 20 company meeting and said the vandals should “stop acting psycho.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Crockett and other Tesla Takedown supporters have been stressing the importance for Saturday’s protests to remain peaceful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But police were investigating a fire that destroyed seven Tesla vehicles in northwestern Germany early Saturday morning. It was wasn’t immediately clear if the blaze, which was extinguished by firefighters, was related to the Tesla Takedown protests.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12033753\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1024px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12033753\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2206844168.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1024\" height=\"699\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2206844168.jpg 1024w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2206844168-800x546.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2206844168-1020x696.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2206844168-160x109.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Demonstrators protest in front of a Tesla Service Center in Berlin’s Reinickendorf district, as they kick off the ‘Weeks of Protest’ against US car company Tesla, on March 29, 2025. RALF HIRSCHBERGER/AFP via Getty Images \u003ccite>(Ralf Hirschberger/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>A growing number of consumers who bought Tesla vehicles before Musk took over DOGE have been looking to sell or trade in their cars while others have slapped on bumper stickers seeking to distance themselves from the billionaire’s efforts to prune or shut down government agencies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Musk didn’t appear concerned about an extended slump in sales of new Tesla cars in his March 20 address to employees. He reassured the workers that the company’s Model Y, which is undergoing a refresh, would remain “the best-selling car on Earth again this year.” He also predicted Tesla will have sold more than 10 million cars worldwide by next year, up from about 7 million cars now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There are times when there are rocky moments, where there is stormy weather, but what I am here to tell you is that the future is incredibly bright and exciting,” Musk said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After Trump was elected last November, investors initially saw Musk’s alliance with the president as a positive development for Tesla and its long-running efforts to launch \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/elon-musk-tesla-robotaxi-unveiling-a00d063f2ffc67125889a6635a0a607e\">a network of self-driving cars.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12033755\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1024px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12033755\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2204441337.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2204441337.jpg 1024w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2204441337-800x534.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2204441337-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2204441337-160x107.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The steering wheel of a burnt-out Tesla car in the Steglitz district of Berlin, Germany, on March 14, 2025. \u003ccite>(Christophe Gateau/picture alliance via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>That optimism helped lift Tesla’s stock by 70% in the period between Trump’s Nov. 5 election and his Jan. 20 inauguration, creating an additional $560 billion in shareholder wealth. But virtually all those gains have evaporated amid investor worries about the Tesla backlash, lagging sales in the U.S., Europe and China, and Musk spending time overseeing DOGE.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This continues to be a moment of truth for Musk to navigate this brand tornado crisis moment and get onto the other side of this dark chapter for Tesla,” Wedbush Securities analyst Dan Ives said in a research note leading up to Saturday’s protests.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Associated Press business writer Michael Liedtke reported from San Francisco, with contributions from AP’s Mustakim Hasnath from London and Stefanie Dazio from Germany. KQED’s Juan Carlos Lara contributed reporting from San Francisco and Lakshmi Sarah from Berkeley.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Crowds protesting billionaire Elon Musk’s purge of the U.S. government under President Donald Trump began amassing outside Tesla dealerships throughout the U.S. and in some cities in Europe on Saturday in the latest attempt to dent the fortune of the world’s richest man.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The protesters are trying to escalate a movement targeting Tesla dealerships and vehicles in opposition to Musk’s role as the head of the newly created Department of of Government Efficiency, or DOGE, where he’s gained access to sensitive data and shuttered entire agencies as he attempts to slash government spending. Most of Musk’s estimated $340 billion fortune consists of the stock he holds in the electric vehicle company that he continues to run while also working alongside Trump.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Earlier protests have been somewhat sporadic. Saturday marked the first attempt to surround all 277 of the automaker’s showrooms and service centers in the U.S. in hopes of deepening \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/tesla-sales-2024-drop-electric-vehicles-69af17c4e606625694af8293db25b2f3\">a recent decline in the company’s sales.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hundreds of protesters gathered in San Francisco, filling the entire sidewalk in front of the Van Ness Street Tesla dealership, with even more protesters on the sidewalk across the street and in the median. Most were carrying homemade signs, some of which read “Musk is stealing from us” and “Musk must go.” Passing cars frequently honked in support — including some people in Teslas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Protest organizer Patty Moddelmog said “Elon Musk is not worried about laying off hundreds of thousands of employees, but he’s very worried about his bottom line.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Protester Felicia Becerra works for the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs which terminated nearly 2,000 employees under Musk and President Trump, a move that has been the subject of lawsuits, at least one of which resulted in many of those same workers being reinstated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There are certainly cuts that are happening that are going to impact the infrastructure that the VA is dependent on,” said Becerra. “Eventually it’s going to hit the veterans I think once they start cutting call center employees, once they start cutting the people that manage claims, it’s going to hit a lot of veterans and not just the people who are employees.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hundreds also gathered at the Tesla dealership in Berkeley, playing music and dancing as they blocked off Fourth Street, waving signs that read “Solve All Budget Issues: Tax Elon Musk,” “My Dad Works for the Government but He’s Not a Waste,” and “Turd Reich,” among others.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Local Kate Klaire said she came out to Berkeley to be part of a “global uprising around the world … because every single thing that’s going on right now is threatening our democracy.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Protester Kent Sparing from Albany said, “If we wanted to fund everything, we could just simply tax [Elon Musk] what he should be paying in taxes.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Berkeley local and self-described “dangerous immigrant” Tony Hansen said “I’ve been here for more than 50 years and I’ve paid plenty of taxes and I believe in it. That’s why I’m here.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There were protests in other parts of the Bay Area as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Hey, hey, ho, ho, Elon Musk has got to go!” several dozen people chanted outside a showroom in Dublin, California, about 35 miles east of San Francisco, while a smaller cluster of Trump supporters waved American flags across the street.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>By early afternoon, crowds ranging from a few dozen to hundreds of protesters had flocked to Tesla locations in New Jersey, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York, Maryland, Minnesota and the automaker’s home state of Texas. Pictures posted on social media accounts showed protesters brandishing signs such as \u003ca href=\"https://bsky.app/profile/pepsy-the-whippet.bsky.social/post/3lljrdz5pzs2l\">“Honk if you hate Elon”\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://bsky.app/profile/jimmyflannigan.bsky.social/post/3lljq36ryck2p\">“Fight the billionaire broligarchy.”\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12033757\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1024px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12033757\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2207532216.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2207532216.jpg 1024w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2207532216-800x534.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2207532216-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2207532216-160x107.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Weekly demonstrations continue outside of Tesla stores to protest Elon Musk and his role at the Department of Government Efficiency, March 29, 2025, in the West Village neighborhood of New York City. \u003ccite>(Andrew Lichtenstein/Corbis via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The Tesla Takedown movement also hoped to rally protestors at more than 230 Tesla locations in other parts of the world. Although the turnouts in Europe weren’t as large as the crowds in the U.S., the anti-Musk sentiment was similar.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>About two dozen protesters held signs lambasting Musk outside a Tesla dealership in London as passing cars and trucks tooted horns in support.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One of the signs displayed at the London protest showed a photo of Musk next to an image of Adolf Hitler making the Nazi salute — a \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/musk-gesture-salute-antisemitism-0070dae53c7a73397b104ae645877535\">gesture that Musk has been accused of reprising\u003c/a> shortly after Trump’s Jan. 20 inauguration. A person in a tyrannosaurus rex costume held another sign with a picture of Musk’s straight-arm gesture that said, “You thought the Nazis were extinct. Don’t buy a Swasticar.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12033752\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1024px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12033752\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2206911491.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1024\" height=\"768\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2206911491.jpg 1024w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2206911491-800x600.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2206911491-1020x765.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2206911491-160x120.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A group of protesters gather outside the Royal Park Tesla dealership in London, United Kingdom, on March 29, 2025. Demonstrators hold signs, including one reading ‘Don’t buy a Tesla,’ and call for action against Tesla and Elon Musk. \u003ccite>(Aysu Bicer/Anadolu via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We just want to get loud, make noise, make people aware of the problems that we’re facing,” said Cam Whitten, an American who showed up at the London protest.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Tesla Takedown was organized by a group of supporters that included disillusioned owners of the automaker’s vehicles, celebrities such as actor John Cusack, and at least one Democratic Party lawmaker, Rep. Jasmine Crockett from Dallas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m going to keep screaming in the halls of Congress. I just need you all to make sure you all keep screaming in the streets,” Crockett said during a \u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APHo7bea_p4\">Tesla Takedown organizing call\u003c/a> held earlier this month.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some people opposed to Musk have gone beyond protests and set the automaker’s vehicles on fire and committed \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/tesla-vandalism-musk-trump-domestic-extremism-7576c03393a733eaf34b793e86ad1a6f\">other acts of vandalism\u003c/a> that U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi has decried as domestic terrorism. Musk indicated he was dumbfounded by the attacks during a March 20 company meeting and said the vandals should “stop acting psycho.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Crockett and other Tesla Takedown supporters have been stressing the importance for Saturday’s protests to remain peaceful.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But police were investigating a fire that destroyed seven Tesla vehicles in northwestern Germany early Saturday morning. It was wasn’t immediately clear if the blaze, which was extinguished by firefighters, was related to the Tesla Takedown protests.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12033753\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1024px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12033753\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2206844168.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1024\" height=\"699\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2206844168.jpg 1024w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2206844168-800x546.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2206844168-1020x696.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2206844168-160x109.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Demonstrators protest in front of a Tesla Service Center in Berlin’s Reinickendorf district, as they kick off the ‘Weeks of Protest’ against US car company Tesla, on March 29, 2025. RALF HIRSCHBERGER/AFP via Getty Images \u003ccite>(Ralf Hirschberger/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>A growing number of consumers who bought Tesla vehicles before Musk took over DOGE have been looking to sell or trade in their cars while others have slapped on bumper stickers seeking to distance themselves from the billionaire’s efforts to prune or shut down government agencies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Musk didn’t appear concerned about an extended slump in sales of new Tesla cars in his March 20 address to employees. He reassured the workers that the company’s Model Y, which is undergoing a refresh, would remain “the best-selling car on Earth again this year.” He also predicted Tesla will have sold more than 10 million cars worldwide by next year, up from about 7 million cars now.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There are times when there are rocky moments, where there is stormy weather, but what I am here to tell you is that the future is incredibly bright and exciting,” Musk said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After Trump was elected last November, investors initially saw Musk’s alliance with the president as a positive development for Tesla and its long-running efforts to launch \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/elon-musk-tesla-robotaxi-unveiling-a00d063f2ffc67125889a6635a0a607e\">a network of self-driving cars.\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12033755\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1024px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12033755\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2204441337.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2204441337.jpg 1024w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2204441337-800x534.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2204441337-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2300/03/GettyImages-2204441337-160x107.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The steering wheel of a burnt-out Tesla car in the Steglitz district of Berlin, Germany, on March 14, 2025. \u003ccite>(Christophe Gateau/picture alliance via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>That optimism helped lift Tesla’s stock by 70% in the period between Trump’s Nov. 5 election and his Jan. 20 inauguration, creating an additional $560 billion in shareholder wealth. But virtually all those gains have evaporated amid investor worries about the Tesla backlash, lagging sales in the U.S., Europe and China, and Musk spending time overseeing DOGE.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This continues to be a moment of truth for Musk to navigate this brand tornado crisis moment and get onto the other side of this dark chapter for Tesla,” Wedbush Securities analyst Dan Ives said in a research note leading up to Saturday’s protests.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>Associated Press business writer Michael Liedtke reported from San Francisco, with contributions from AP’s Mustakim Hasnath from London and Stefanie Dazio from Germany. KQED’s Juan Carlos Lara contributed reporting from San Francisco and Lakshmi Sarah from Berkeley.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As Elon Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency guts the federal workforce, Tesla’s electric cars have a major brand problem, triggering protests at Tesla dealerships and reports of vandalism of Tesla cars. Scott, Marisa and Guy discuss the fallout and the Trump administration’s response. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Plus, Democrats are buzzing over journalists Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson’s book \u003cem>Abundance\u003c/em>, which spells out how liberals have become their own worst enemy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">As Elon Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency guts the federal workforce, Tesla’s electric cars have a major brand problem, triggering protests at Tesla dealerships and reports of vandalism of Tesla cars. Scott, Marisa and Guy discuss the fallout and the Trump administration’s response. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Plus, Democrats are buzzing over journalists Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson’s book \u003cem>Abundance\u003c/em>, which spells out how liberals have become their own worst enemy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"title": "Preparing for Trump Cuts, California Senator Proposes Research and Vaccine Access Bills",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/california\">California \u003c/a>leaders are pushing for the creation of a state agency for scientific research and vaccine accessibility as \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/donald-trump\">the Trump administration\u003c/a> continues implementing sweeping cuts to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12026447/judge-blocks-trump-plan-cut-research-funding-after-california-other-states-sue\">federal funding\u003c/a> for public health research.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill, introduced by state Sen. \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/scott-wiener\">Scott Wiener, \u003c/a>D-San Francisco, on Thursday, would create the California Institute for Scientific Research, a new state agency funding grants and loans to organizations that have traditionally relied on the National Institutes of Health.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The proposal also seeks to bolster the state’s vaccine infrastructure amid a climate of vaccine skepticism promoted by Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and others in government.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Trump and Elon Musk’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12029281/musks-costly-cuts-x-will-doge-trump-face-similar-fallout\">Department of Government Efficiency\u003c/a> “are taking a wrecking ball to federal scientific research, and they’re taking a wrecking ball to American leadership,” Wiener told KQED. “If the federal government is going to step back from science leadership, let’s make sure that California is the world leader.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In February, a federal judge temporarily blocked the Trump administration’s plans to drastically reduce NIH funding for scientific research after a lawsuit was filed by a coalition of more than two dozen states. The \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12030313/uc-berkeley-scientists-protest-trump-administrations-cuts-to-research-funding\">preliminary injunction was extended\u003c/a> earlier this month after Rhode Island U.S. District Court Judge John McConnell declared the cuts unsupported by any constitutional authority.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12027568\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12027568\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/250218-SFDowntown-20-BL.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/250218-SFDowntown-20-BL.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/250218-SFDowntown-20-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/250218-SFDowntown-20-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/250218-SFDowntown-20-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/250218-SFDowntown-20-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/250218-SFDowntown-20-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sen. Scott Wiener speaks during a press conference in Union Square, San Francisco, on Tuesday, Feb. 18, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Despite the judge’s order, some research funding freezes have continued unobstructed through the Trump administration’s use of procedural loopholes prohibiting health officials from giving public notice of grant review meetings, a required step before funding can be disbursed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last year, the NIH — the largest research funding institution in the world — allocated over $30 billion in grants to research projects. The University of California system said it received roughly $2.6 billion in NIH research funding. Wiener said cuts, including those to research that touches on diversity, equity and inclusion, would be a major setback for scientific development.[aside postID=news_12032892 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/250310-TRUMP-SF-MD-02-KQED-1020x680.jpg']“In California, we should be supporting scientific research around diverse communities,” said Wiener, who is widely thought to be a contender for Sen. Nancy Pelosi’s House seat in the midterms. “But to be clear, what Trump and Musk are doing is way broader than that. They’re upending all scientific research, DEI and otherwise, and so we need to do what we can to enhance our science research capacity here in California.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The California Institute of Scientific Research would fill the void caused by federal funding cuts, Wiener said. The agency would support state institutions and researchers conducting studies in areas including, but not limited to, biomedicine, climate, coastal and marine ecosystems and disease prevention.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill would also direct CalRX, a state program that produces and distributes prescription drugs such as generic insulin, to partner with other agencies to improve vaccine accessibility for Californians.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California’s local public health departments are already reckoning with a measles outbreak, with over \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12033049/san-mateo-county-measles-case-highlights-risk-for-unvaccinated-expert-sayshttps:/www.kqed.org/news/12033049/san-mateo-county-measles-case-highlights-risk-for-unvaccinated-expert-says\">300 confirmed measles cases\u003c/a> this year. Many experts are attributing the rise in infections to lower vaccination rates in school-age children.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kennedy and other health officials have already begun proposing alternatives to traditional vaccinations when it comes to dealing with diseases such as measles. While Kennedy has said the measles vaccine is effective at protecting children from the disease, he also suggested in an op-ed for Fox News that improved nutrition and vitamin intake is the “best defense” against infectious illnesses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12033385\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12033385\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/GettyImages-1231697879_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/GettyImages-1231697879_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/GettyImages-1231697879_qed-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/GettyImages-1231697879_qed-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/GettyImages-1231697879_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/GettyImages-1231697879_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/GettyImages-1231697879_qed-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A syringe is filled with a dose of the Johnson & Johnson Janssen COVID-19 vaccine at a vaccination site inside Reuther Hall at Forty Acres on March 13, 2021, in Delano, California. \u003ccite>(Patrick T. Fallon/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>State health officials also announced Wednesday that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention plans to curtail federal funding for COVID-19 vaccinations and surveillance, further alarming health advocates who are pushing for improved public health initiatives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This COVID-19 rollback of funding at the federal level is just another example of how…we don’t have that kind of support at the federal level, to continue doing important innovative research that will benefit the public and the health of the public,” said Mar Velez, director of policy at the Latino Coalition for a Healthy California. “We’re happy to see that legislators in California are doing their job and setting up infrastructure that will continue to support the health of Californians.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Funding for the bill is likely to be an obstacle moving forward. If Trump is successful in pushing forth sweeping cuts to critical state programs such as MediCaid, California could face a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12032878/gop-cuts-to-medicaid-snap-would-shrink-californias-economy-by-17-billion-and-kill-nearly-140000-jobs-new-study-finds\">severe budget deficit\u003c/a>, Wiener said, adding that state leaders are looking for ways to prepare for the worst.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Scientific research is a crucial pillar of California’s economy and of our success, and we should never lose sight of that,” he said. “We’re all nervous. We are all scared…It’s paralyzing the level of harm that [the Trump administration] is doing. We need to all take a deep breath and focus on what we as individuals or as leaders can do.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>KQED’s \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/skennedy\">\u003cem>Samantha Kennedy\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem> contributed to this report. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "Sen. Scott Wiener argued that moves by Elon Musk, President Donald Trump and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. show that California is a world leader.",
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"title": "Preparing for Trump Cuts, California Senator Proposes Research and Vaccine Access Bills | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/california\">California \u003c/a>leaders are pushing for the creation of a state agency for scientific research and vaccine accessibility as \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/donald-trump\">the Trump administration\u003c/a> continues implementing sweeping cuts to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12026447/judge-blocks-trump-plan-cut-research-funding-after-california-other-states-sue\">federal funding\u003c/a> for public health research.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill, introduced by state Sen. \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/scott-wiener\">Scott Wiener, \u003c/a>D-San Francisco, on Thursday, would create the California Institute for Scientific Research, a new state agency funding grants and loans to organizations that have traditionally relied on the National Institutes of Health.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The proposal also seeks to bolster the state’s vaccine infrastructure amid a climate of vaccine skepticism promoted by Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and others in government.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Trump and Elon Musk’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12029281/musks-costly-cuts-x-will-doge-trump-face-similar-fallout\">Department of Government Efficiency\u003c/a> “are taking a wrecking ball to federal scientific research, and they’re taking a wrecking ball to American leadership,” Wiener told KQED. “If the federal government is going to step back from science leadership, let’s make sure that California is the world leader.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In February, a federal judge temporarily blocked the Trump administration’s plans to drastically reduce NIH funding for scientific research after a lawsuit was filed by a coalition of more than two dozen states. The \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12030313/uc-berkeley-scientists-protest-trump-administrations-cuts-to-research-funding\">preliminary injunction was extended\u003c/a> earlier this month after Rhode Island U.S. District Court Judge John McConnell declared the cuts unsupported by any constitutional authority.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12027568\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12027568\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/250218-SFDowntown-20-BL.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/250218-SFDowntown-20-BL.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/250218-SFDowntown-20-BL-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/250218-SFDowntown-20-BL-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/250218-SFDowntown-20-BL-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/250218-SFDowntown-20-BL-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/02/250218-SFDowntown-20-BL-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Sen. Scott Wiener speaks during a press conference in Union Square, San Francisco, on Tuesday, Feb. 18, 2025. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Despite the judge’s order, some research funding freezes have continued unobstructed through the Trump administration’s use of procedural loopholes prohibiting health officials from giving public notice of grant review meetings, a required step before funding can be disbursed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last year, the NIH — the largest research funding institution in the world — allocated over $30 billion in grants to research projects. The University of California system said it received roughly $2.6 billion in NIH research funding. Wiener said cuts, including those to research that touches on diversity, equity and inclusion, would be a major setback for scientific development.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“In California, we should be supporting scientific research around diverse communities,” said Wiener, who is widely thought to be a contender for Sen. Nancy Pelosi’s House seat in the midterms. “But to be clear, what Trump and Musk are doing is way broader than that. They’re upending all scientific research, DEI and otherwise, and so we need to do what we can to enhance our science research capacity here in California.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The California Institute of Scientific Research would fill the void caused by federal funding cuts, Wiener said. The agency would support state institutions and researchers conducting studies in areas including, but not limited to, biomedicine, climate, coastal and marine ecosystems and disease prevention.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The bill would also direct CalRX, a state program that produces and distributes prescription drugs such as generic insulin, to partner with other agencies to improve vaccine accessibility for Californians.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>California’s local public health departments are already reckoning with a measles outbreak, with over \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12033049/san-mateo-county-measles-case-highlights-risk-for-unvaccinated-expert-sayshttps:/www.kqed.org/news/12033049/san-mateo-county-measles-case-highlights-risk-for-unvaccinated-expert-says\">300 confirmed measles cases\u003c/a> this year. Many experts are attributing the rise in infections to lower vaccination rates in school-age children.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Kennedy and other health officials have already begun proposing alternatives to traditional vaccinations when it comes to dealing with diseases such as measles. While Kennedy has said the measles vaccine is effective at protecting children from the disease, he also suggested in an op-ed for Fox News that improved nutrition and vitamin intake is the “best defense” against infectious illnesses.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12033385\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12033385\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/GettyImages-1231697879_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/GettyImages-1231697879_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/GettyImages-1231697879_qed-800x533.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/GettyImages-1231697879_qed-1020x680.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/GettyImages-1231697879_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/GettyImages-1231697879_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/GettyImages-1231697879_qed-1920x1280.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A syringe is filled with a dose of the Johnson & Johnson Janssen COVID-19 vaccine at a vaccination site inside Reuther Hall at Forty Acres on March 13, 2021, in Delano, California. \u003ccite>(Patrick T. Fallon/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>State health officials also announced Wednesday that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention plans to curtail federal funding for COVID-19 vaccinations and surveillance, further alarming health advocates who are pushing for improved public health initiatives.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This COVID-19 rollback of funding at the federal level is just another example of how…we don’t have that kind of support at the federal level, to continue doing important innovative research that will benefit the public and the health of the public,” said Mar Velez, director of policy at the Latino Coalition for a Healthy California. “We’re happy to see that legislators in California are doing their job and setting up infrastructure that will continue to support the health of Californians.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Funding for the bill is likely to be an obstacle moving forward. If Trump is successful in pushing forth sweeping cuts to critical state programs such as MediCaid, California could face a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12032878/gop-cuts-to-medicaid-snap-would-shrink-californias-economy-by-17-billion-and-kill-nearly-140000-jobs-new-study-finds\">severe budget deficit\u003c/a>, Wiener said, adding that state leaders are looking for ways to prepare for the worst.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Scientific research is a crucial pillar of California’s economy and of our success, and we should never lose sight of that,” he said. “We’re all nervous. We are all scared…It’s paralyzing the level of harm that [the Trump administration] is doing. We need to all take a deep breath and focus on what we as individuals or as leaders can do.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>KQED’s \u003c/em>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/author/skennedy\">\u003cem>Samantha Kennedy\u003c/em>\u003c/a>\u003cem> contributed to this report. \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "doge-says-it-needs-to-know-the-governments-most-sensitive-data-but-cant-say-why",
"title": "DOGE Says It Needs to Know the Government's Most Sensitive Data, but Can't Say Why",
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"headTitle": "DOGE Says It Needs to Know the Government’s Most Sensitive Data, but Can’t Say Why | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>Fewer than 50 people have access to Social Security Administration databases containing hundreds of millions of people’s private financial and personal information.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But only one also has access to the government’s human resources and student loan files.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Akash Bobba is one of many \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/02/07/nx-s1-5288988/doge-elon-musk-staff-trump\">Department of Government Efficiency staffers\u003c/a> who have embedded in federal agencies the last few months with virtually unfettered access to the sensitive, compartmentalized sources of data collected by the government. The team, which is steered by billionaire Elon Musk, says it’s scouring government records for signs of waste, fraud and abuse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bobba is also one of many DOGE employees who, according to several federal judges, were inappropriately given that access in violation of privacy laws and without proper training to handle the personally identifiable information the agencies collect.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In one order last week \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868348-afscme-v-ssa-memorandum-order/\">blocking DOGE’s access to Social Security data\u003c/a>, U.S. District Judge Ellen Lipton Hollander of Maryland said the government “\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868348-afscme-v-ssa-memorandum-order/#document/p135\">never identified or articulated even a single reason for which the DOGE Team needs unlimited access to SSA’s entire record systems, thereby exposing personal, confidential, sensitive, and private information that millions of Americans entrusted to their government\u003c/a>.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Instead of a more narrow approach to data access and work to “modernize the system and uncover fraud,” Hollander wrote that DOGE’s unprecedented access to protected data “is tantamount to hitting a fly with a sledgehammer.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868348-afscme-v-ssa-memorandum-order/?mode=document#document/p136/a2629336\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-12033143\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE1-1-scaled-e1743018030466.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1673\" height=\"482\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE1-1-scaled-e1743018030466.jpg 1673w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE1-1-scaled-e1743018030466-800x230.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE1-1-scaled-e1743018030466-1020x294.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE1-1-scaled-e1743018030466-160x46.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE1-1-scaled-e1743018030466-1536x443.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1673px) 100vw, 1673px\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>An NPR review of thousands of pages of records across more than a dozen lawsuits in federal court finds an alarming pattern across agencies, where DOGE has given conflicting information about what data it has accessed, who has that access, and most importantly — why.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>‘No need to know’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>When President Trump signed an order creating the DOGE initiative, it directed agencies to create dedicated teams that would have “full and prompt access to all unclassified agency records, software systems, and IT systems” that would also “adhere to rigorous data protection standards.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Numerous court filings and affidavits paint a picture of agencies rushing to give DOGE access without accompanying rigor of protecting data or documenting the scope of its work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On Monday, a federal judge in Maryland temporarily halted DOGE from accessing data of millions of union members in a lawsuit against the Office of Personnel Management, the Treasury Department and Education Department after finding the agencies shared private information with DOGE affiliates “\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868347-aft-v-bessent-memorandum-opinion/#document/p51/a2629335\">who had no need to know the vast amount of sensitive personal information to which they were granted access\u003c/a>.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“No matter how important or urgent the President’s DOGE agenda may be, federal agencies must execute it in accordance with the law,” Judge Deborah L. Boardman wrote. “That likely did not happen in this case.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868347-aft-v-bessent-memorandum-opinion/?mode=document#document/p68/a2629333\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-12033144\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE2-1-scaled-e1743018116397.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1668\" height=\"1242\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE2-1-scaled-e1743018116397.jpg 1668w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE2-1-scaled-e1743018116397-800x596.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE2-1-scaled-e1743018116397-1020x759.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE2-1-scaled-e1743018116397-160x119.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE2-1-scaled-e1743018116397-1536x1144.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1668px) 100vw, 1668px\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the Social Security Administration lawsuit, Hollander found several DOGE staffers “\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868348-afscme-v-ssa-memorandum-order/#document/p70/a2629340\">were granted access to SSA systems before their background checks were completed or their inter-agency detail agreements were finalized\u003c/a>.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One of those is Bobba, who was given access to the master data warehouse at SSA that includes the Master Beneficiary Record, Supplemental Security Record and Numident files containing “\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868348-afscme-v-ssa-memorandum-order/#document/p33/a2629341\">extensive information about anyone with a social security number\u003c/a>,” according to filings in the case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to a memorandum of understanding detailing Bobba’s work with SSA, the Office of Personnel Management and Education Department that was \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868464-opm-admin-record/#document/p17\">improperly redacted\u003c/a> by OPM, Bobba agreed to do any work on Social Security data from the agency headquarters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868464-opm-admin-record/?mode=document#document/p17/a2629347\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-12033145\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE3-scaled-e1743018197838.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1067\" height=\"1420\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE3-scaled-e1743018197838.jpg 1067w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE3-scaled-e1743018197838-800x1065.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE3-scaled-e1743018197838-1020x1357.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE3-scaled-e1743018197838-160x213.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1067px) 100vw, 1067px\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But an affidavit from former SSA chief of staff Tiffany Flick said that Bobba was working off-site from OPM where other people “may have also had access to this protected information,” \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868348-afscme-v-ssa-memorandum-order/#document/p32/a2629339\">Flick wrote\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Not even lawyers for the government can account for when and how DOGE staffers received access to sensitive databases. In a Labor Department lawsuit, Judge John D. Bates notes that “\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868345-aflcio-v-labor-memorandum-opinion/#document/p14/a2629325\">defendants themselves acknowledge inconsistencies across their evidence\u003c/a>” regarding DOGE.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Marko Elez, a DOGE employee who \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/02/06/nx-s1-5289337/elon-musk-doge-treasury\">resigned from his post\u003c/a> at the Treasury Department in early February after racist social media posts resurfaced, “sent an email with a spreadsheet containing PII to two United States General Services Administration officials,” according to an \u003ca href=\"https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.636609/gov.uscourts.nysd.636609.116.1.pdf\">audit (PDF)\u003c/a> of his email account submitted in one court filing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Government lawyers said Elez was “erroneously” and “mistakenly” given the ability to change data on Treasury’s Secure Payment System, which a \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868443-nyt-v-treasury-order/\">judge said\u003c/a> demonstrates DOGE access was “\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868443-nyt-v-treasury-order/#document/p28/a2629338\">rushed and undertaken by political pressure\u003c/a>.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a ruling blocking DOGE access to Treasury systems, Judge Jeannette Vargas \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868443-nyt-v-treasury-order/\">warned\u003c/a> that “a real possibility exists that sensitive information has already been shared outside of the Treasury Department, in potential violation of federal law.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868443-nyt-v-treasury-order/?mode=document#document/p46/a2629337\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-12033146\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE4-scaled-e1743018254681.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1590\" height=\"1045\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE4-scaled-e1743018254681.jpg 1590w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE4-scaled-e1743018254681-800x526.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE4-scaled-e1743018254681-1020x670.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE4-scaled-e1743018254681-160x105.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE4-scaled-e1743018254681-1536x1010.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1590px) 100vw, 1590px\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Congress warned against this — a half-century ago\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>When Congress passed the Privacy Act of 1974, lawmakers expressed concerns about personal information amassed in digital databases by the “omnivorous fact collectors” of federal agencies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During the debate about the bill, Arizona Republican Sen. Barry Goldwater was worried about the possibility “that every detail of our personal lives can be assembled instantly for use by a single bureaucrat or institution.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[aside postID=news_12033066 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/paypal-mafia_web-img-1020x574.png']\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I hope that we never see the day when a bureaucrat in Washington or Chicago or Los Angeles can use his organization’s computer facilities to assemble a complete dossier or all known information about an individual,” Republican Sen. Charles Percy said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Fifty years later, the Department of Government Efficiency effort headed by Musk appears to be doing just that, bypassing the Privacy Act, agency security protocols and training for handling the most sensitive data maintained by federal agencies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The White House did not respond to questions about DOGE following privacy laws, or whether Americans should be concerned about the level of DOGE’s access.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The federal government maintains a large amount of sensitive data, from health records of veterans and Medicare recipients to troves of information about companies being investigated by the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and the National Labor Relations Board.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The rapid insertion of DOGE employees into the system is raising alarm bells for privacy and security advocates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The government has also repeatedly failed to articulate a clear purpose for the unprecedented access it seeks to deeply sensitive information, and why the data it wants access to is necessary for that purpose,” said Kristin Woelfel, a lawyer with the nonprofit Center for Democracy and Technology. “If the government cannot answer those questions, then DOGE has no business accessing that data.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Part of what is unnerving and is scary both to companies whose data is involved and also Americans whose most sensitive financial information is at risk, is that we don’t know what they’re doing,” former CFPB chief technologist Erie Meyer \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/03/11/nx-s1-5305054/doge-elon-musk-security-data-information-privacy\">previously told NPR\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Anne Weismann, a George Washington University Law School professor who focuses on government accountability and transparency, said DOGE and its employees have control over a “staggering” amount of data about Americans.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s so ironic because Trump supporters are so worried about ‘Big Brother’ and government, and they are allowing this entity to amass that data,” Weismann said. “I mean, I don’t think there’s another entity in the federal government that collectively has access to that kind of data.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Weismann is also outside counsel for the nonprofit Project On Government Oversight, which is suing DOGE over access to records about how it operates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last week, Trump signed an \u003ca href=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/03/stopping-waste-fraud-and-abuse-by-eliminating-information-silos/\">executive action\u003c/a> that appears to continue to push agencies toward “eliminating information silos” and sharing more sensitive data across federal agencies, including ensuring that the government has “unfettered access to all unemployment data and related payment records.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It encourages federal agency leaders to find ways to rescind existing regulations and guidance about information sharing within and between agencies — with no mention of privacy or data security.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cem>Have information you want to share about DOGE access to government databases and IT systems? Reach out to these authors through encrypted communication on Signal. \u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/people/1219684807/stephen-fowler\">\u003cstrong>\u003cem>Stephen Fowler\u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003cstrong>\u003cem> is at stphnfwlr.25, \u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/people/1038324514/jenna-mclaughlin\">\u003cstrong>\u003cem>Jenna McLaughlin\u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003cstrong>\u003cem> is at JennaMcLaughlin.54\u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"excerpt": "NPR reviewed thousands of pages of records across more than a dozen lawsuits in federal court and found an alarming pattern across agencies, where DOGE has given conflicting information about what data it has accessed, who has that access, and why.",
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"title": "DOGE Says It Needs to Know the Government's Most Sensitive Data, but Can't Say Why | KQED",
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"nprByline": "\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/people/1219684807/stephen-fowler\">Stephen Fowler\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/people/1038324514/jenna-mclaughlin\">Jenna McLaughlin\u003c/a>, NPR",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Fewer than 50 people have access to Social Security Administration databases containing hundreds of millions of people’s private financial and personal information.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But only one also has access to the government’s human resources and student loan files.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Akash Bobba is one of many \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/02/07/nx-s1-5288988/doge-elon-musk-staff-trump\">Department of Government Efficiency staffers\u003c/a> who have embedded in federal agencies the last few months with virtually unfettered access to the sensitive, compartmentalized sources of data collected by the government. The team, which is steered by billionaire Elon Musk, says it’s scouring government records for signs of waste, fraud and abuse.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Bobba is also one of many DOGE employees who, according to several federal judges, were inappropriately given that access in violation of privacy laws and without proper training to handle the personally identifiable information the agencies collect.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In one order last week \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868348-afscme-v-ssa-memorandum-order/\">blocking DOGE’s access to Social Security data\u003c/a>, U.S. District Judge Ellen Lipton Hollander of Maryland said the government “\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868348-afscme-v-ssa-memorandum-order/#document/p135\">never identified or articulated even a single reason for which the DOGE Team needs unlimited access to SSA’s entire record systems, thereby exposing personal, confidential, sensitive, and private information that millions of Americans entrusted to their government\u003c/a>.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Instead of a more narrow approach to data access and work to “modernize the system and uncover fraud,” Hollander wrote that DOGE’s unprecedented access to protected data “is tantamount to hitting a fly with a sledgehammer.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868348-afscme-v-ssa-memorandum-order/?mode=document#document/p136/a2629336\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-12033143\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE1-1-scaled-e1743018030466.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1673\" height=\"482\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE1-1-scaled-e1743018030466.jpg 1673w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE1-1-scaled-e1743018030466-800x230.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE1-1-scaled-e1743018030466-1020x294.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE1-1-scaled-e1743018030466-160x46.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE1-1-scaled-e1743018030466-1536x443.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1673px) 100vw, 1673px\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>An NPR review of thousands of pages of records across more than a dozen lawsuits in federal court finds an alarming pattern across agencies, where DOGE has given conflicting information about what data it has accessed, who has that access, and most importantly — why.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>‘No need to know’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>When President Trump signed an order creating the DOGE initiative, it directed agencies to create dedicated teams that would have “full and prompt access to all unclassified agency records, software systems, and IT systems” that would also “adhere to rigorous data protection standards.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Numerous court filings and affidavits paint a picture of agencies rushing to give DOGE access without accompanying rigor of protecting data or documenting the scope of its work.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On Monday, a federal judge in Maryland temporarily halted DOGE from accessing data of millions of union members in a lawsuit against the Office of Personnel Management, the Treasury Department and Education Department after finding the agencies shared private information with DOGE affiliates “\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868347-aft-v-bessent-memorandum-opinion/#document/p51/a2629335\">who had no need to know the vast amount of sensitive personal information to which they were granted access\u003c/a>.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“No matter how important or urgent the President’s DOGE agenda may be, federal agencies must execute it in accordance with the law,” Judge Deborah L. Boardman wrote. “That likely did not happen in this case.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868347-aft-v-bessent-memorandum-opinion/?mode=document#document/p68/a2629333\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-12033144\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE2-1-scaled-e1743018116397.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1668\" height=\"1242\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE2-1-scaled-e1743018116397.jpg 1668w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE2-1-scaled-e1743018116397-800x596.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE2-1-scaled-e1743018116397-1020x759.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE2-1-scaled-e1743018116397-160x119.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE2-1-scaled-e1743018116397-1536x1144.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1668px) 100vw, 1668px\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the Social Security Administration lawsuit, Hollander found several DOGE staffers “\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868348-afscme-v-ssa-memorandum-order/#document/p70/a2629340\">were granted access to SSA systems before their background checks were completed or their inter-agency detail agreements were finalized\u003c/a>.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One of those is Bobba, who was given access to the master data warehouse at SSA that includes the Master Beneficiary Record, Supplemental Security Record and Numident files containing “\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868348-afscme-v-ssa-memorandum-order/#document/p33/a2629341\">extensive information about anyone with a social security number\u003c/a>,” according to filings in the case.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to a memorandum of understanding detailing Bobba’s work with SSA, the Office of Personnel Management and Education Department that was \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868464-opm-admin-record/#document/p17\">improperly redacted\u003c/a> by OPM, Bobba agreed to do any work on Social Security data from the agency headquarters.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868464-opm-admin-record/?mode=document#document/p17/a2629347\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-12033145\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE3-scaled-e1743018197838.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1067\" height=\"1420\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE3-scaled-e1743018197838.jpg 1067w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE3-scaled-e1743018197838-800x1065.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE3-scaled-e1743018197838-1020x1357.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE3-scaled-e1743018197838-160x213.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1067px) 100vw, 1067px\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But an affidavit from former SSA chief of staff Tiffany Flick said that Bobba was working off-site from OPM where other people “may have also had access to this protected information,” \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868348-afscme-v-ssa-memorandum-order/#document/p32/a2629339\">Flick wrote\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Not even lawyers for the government can account for when and how DOGE staffers received access to sensitive databases. In a Labor Department lawsuit, Judge John D. Bates notes that “\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868345-aflcio-v-labor-memorandum-opinion/#document/p14/a2629325\">defendants themselves acknowledge inconsistencies across their evidence\u003c/a>” regarding DOGE.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Marko Elez, a DOGE employee who \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/02/06/nx-s1-5289337/elon-musk-doge-treasury\">resigned from his post\u003c/a> at the Treasury Department in early February after racist social media posts resurfaced, “sent an email with a spreadsheet containing PII to two United States General Services Administration officials,” according to an \u003ca href=\"https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.636609/gov.uscourts.nysd.636609.116.1.pdf\">audit (PDF)\u003c/a> of his email account submitted in one court filing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Government lawyers said Elez was “erroneously” and “mistakenly” given the ability to change data on Treasury’s Secure Payment System, which a \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868443-nyt-v-treasury-order/\">judge said\u003c/a> demonstrates DOGE access was “\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868443-nyt-v-treasury-order/#document/p28/a2629338\">rushed and undertaken by political pressure\u003c/a>.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a ruling blocking DOGE access to Treasury systems, Judge Jeannette Vargas \u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868443-nyt-v-treasury-order/\">warned\u003c/a> that “a real possibility exists that sensitive information has already been shared outside of the Treasury Department, in potential violation of federal law.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25868443-nyt-v-treasury-order/?mode=document#document/p46/a2629337\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-12033146\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE4-scaled-e1743018254681.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1590\" height=\"1045\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE4-scaled-e1743018254681.jpg 1590w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE4-scaled-e1743018254681-800x526.jpg 800w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE4-scaled-e1743018254681-1020x670.jpg 1020w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE4-scaled-e1743018254681-160x105.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/03/IMAGE4-scaled-e1743018254681-1536x1010.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1590px) 100vw, 1590px\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Congress warned against this — a half-century ago\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>When Congress passed the Privacy Act of 1974, lawmakers expressed concerns about personal information amassed in digital databases by the “omnivorous fact collectors” of federal agencies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During the debate about the bill, Arizona Republican Sen. 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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I hope that we never see the day when a bureaucrat in Washington or Chicago or Los Angeles can use his organization’s computer facilities to assemble a complete dossier or all known information about an individual,” Republican Sen. Charles Percy said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Fifty years later, the Department of Government Efficiency effort headed by Musk appears to be doing just that, bypassing the Privacy Act, agency security protocols and training for handling the most sensitive data maintained by federal agencies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The White House did not respond to questions about DOGE following privacy laws, or whether Americans should be concerned about the level of DOGE’s access.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The federal government maintains a large amount of sensitive data, from health records of veterans and Medicare recipients to troves of information about companies being investigated by the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and the National Labor Relations Board.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The rapid insertion of DOGE employees into the system is raising alarm bells for privacy and security advocates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The government has also repeatedly failed to articulate a clear purpose for the unprecedented access it seeks to deeply sensitive information, and why the data it wants access to is necessary for that purpose,” said Kristin Woelfel, a lawyer with the nonprofit Center for Democracy and Technology. “If the government cannot answer those questions, then DOGE has no business accessing that data.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Part of what is unnerving and is scary both to companies whose data is involved and also Americans whose most sensitive financial information is at risk, is that we don’t know what they’re doing,” former CFPB chief technologist Erie Meyer \u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/2025/03/11/nx-s1-5305054/doge-elon-musk-security-data-information-privacy\">previously told NPR\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Anne Weismann, a George Washington University Law School professor who focuses on government accountability and transparency, said DOGE and its employees have control over a “staggering” amount of data about Americans.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s so ironic because Trump supporters are so worried about ‘Big Brother’ and government, and they are allowing this entity to amass that data,” Weismann said. “I mean, I don’t think there’s another entity in the federal government that collectively has access to that kind of data.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Weismann is also outside counsel for the nonprofit Project On Government Oversight, which is suing DOGE over access to records about how it operates.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last week, Trump signed an \u003ca href=\"https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/03/stopping-waste-fraud-and-abuse-by-eliminating-information-silos/\">executive action\u003c/a> that appears to continue to push agencies toward “eliminating information silos” and sharing more sensitive data across federal agencies, including ensuring that the government has “unfettered access to all unemployment data and related payment records.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It encourages federal agency leaders to find ways to rescind existing regulations and guidance about information sharing within and between agencies — with no mention of privacy or data security.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cem>Have information you want to share about DOGE access to government databases and IT systems? Reach out to these authors through encrypted communication on Signal. \u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/people/1219684807/stephen-fowler\">\u003cstrong>\u003cem>Stephen Fowler\u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003cstrong>\u003cem> is at stphnfwlr.25, \u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003ca href=\"https://www.npr.org/people/1038324514/jenna-mclaughlin\">\u003cstrong>\u003cem>Jenna McLaughlin\u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003c/a>\u003cstrong>\u003cem> is at JennaMcLaughlin.54\u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"info": "What kind of no sabo word is Hyphenación? For us, it’s about living within a hyphenation. Like being a third-gen Mexican-American from the Texas border now living that Bay Area Chicano life. Like Xorje! Each week we bring together a couple of hyphenated Latinos to talk all about personal life choices: family, careers, relationships, belonging … everything is on the table. ",
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"info": "The Political Mind of Jerry Brown brings listeners the wisdom of the former Governor, Mayor, and presidential candidate. Scott Shafer interviewed Brown for more than 40 hours, covering the former governor's life and half-century in the political game – and Brown has some lessons he'd like to share. ",
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"info": "Our flagship program, helmed by Kai Ryssdal, examines what the day in money delivered, through stories, conversations, newsworthy numbers and more. Updated Monday through Friday at about 3:30 p.m. PT.",
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"info": "The MindShift podcast explores the innovations in education that are shaping how kids learn. Hosts Ki Sung and Katrina Schwartz introduce listeners to educators, researchers, parents and students who are developing effective ways to improve how kids learn. We cover topics like how fed-up administrators are developing surprising tactics to deal with classroom disruptions; how listening to podcasts are helping kids develop reading skills; the consequences of overparenting; and why interdisciplinary learning can engage students on all ends of the traditional achievement spectrum. This podcast is part of the MindShift education site, a division of KQED News. KQED is an NPR/PBS member station based in San Francisco. You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>",
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"info": "For decades, the process for how police police themselves has been inconsistent – if not opaque. In some states, like California, these proceedings were completely hidden. After a new police transparency law unsealed scores of internal affairs files, our reporters set out to examine these cases and the shadow world of police discipline. On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?",
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"title": "Political Breakdown",
"tagline": "Politics from a personal perspective",
"info": "Political Breakdown is a new series that explores the political intersection of California and the nation. Each week hosts Scott Shafer and Marisa Lagos are joined with a new special guest to unpack politics -- with personality — and offer an insider’s glimpse at how politics happens.",
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"possible": {
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"title": "Possible",
"info": "Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? Each episode also includes a short fiction story generated by advanced AI GPT-4, serving as a thought-provoking springboard to speculate how humanity could leverage technology for good.",
"airtime": "SUN 2pm",
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"pri-the-world": {
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"info": "Each weekday, host Marco Werman and his team of producers bring you the world's most interesting stories in an hour of radio that reminds us just how small our planet really is.",
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"imageSrc": "https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/The-World-Podcast-Tile-360x360-1.jpg",
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},
"radiolab": {
"id": "radiolab",
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"info": "A two-time Peabody Award-winner, Radiolab is an investigation told through sounds and stories, and centered around one big idea. In the Radiolab world, information sounds like music and science and culture collide. Hosted by Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich, the show is designed for listeners who demand skepticism, but appreciate wonder. WNYC Studios is the producer of other leading podcasts including Freakonomics Radio, Death, Sex & Money, On the Media and many more.",
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"reveal": {
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"title": "Reveal",
"info": "Created by The Center for Investigative Reporting and PRX, Reveal is public radios first one-hour weekly radio show and podcast dedicated to investigative reporting. Credible, fact based and without a partisan agenda, Reveal combines the power and artistry of driveway moment storytelling with data-rich reporting on critically important issues. The result is stories that inform and inspire, arming our listeners with information to right injustices, hold the powerful accountable and improve lives.Reveal is hosted by Al Letson and showcases the award-winning work of CIR and newsrooms large and small across the nation. In a radio and podcast market crowded with choices, Reveal focuses on important and often surprising stories that illuminate the world for our listeners.",
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"officialWebsiteLink": "https://www.revealnews.org/episodes/",
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},
"rightnowish": {
"id": "rightnowish",
"title": "Rightnowish",
"tagline": "Art is where you find it",
"info": "Rightnowish digs into life in the Bay Area right now… ish. Journalist Pendarvis Harshaw takes us to galleries painted on the sides of liquor stores in West Oakland. We'll dance in warehouses in the Bayview, make smoothies with kids in South Berkeley, and listen to classical music in a 1984 Cutlass Supreme in Richmond. Every week, Pen talks to movers and shakers about how the Bay Area shapes what they create, and how they shape the place we call home.",
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"order": 16
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},
"science-friday": {
"id": "science-friday",
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"info": "Science Friday is a weekly science talk show, broadcast live over public radio stations nationwide. Each week, the show focuses on science topics that are in the news and tries to bring an educated, balanced discussion to bear on the scientific issues at hand. Panels of expert guests join host Ira Flatow, a veteran science journalist, to discuss science and to take questions from listeners during the call-in portion of the program.",
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"snap-judgment": {
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