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"content": "\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jurors and journalists are getting a peek into the world of OpenAI and its founding as two of the richest, most powerful men in tech duke it out in an Oakland federal courthouse. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Elon Musk claims that Sam Altman and other co-founders of OpenAI abandoned their founding promise to develop AI for the benefit of humanity. But does anyone here really have our best interests at heart? KQED’s Rachael Myrow takes us inside.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"list-style-type: none\">\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12081290/how-to-unscramble-an-omelet-in-silicon-valley-the-musk-v-altman-trial-that-will-try\">How to Unscramble an Omelet in Silicon Valley: The Musk v. Altman Trial That Will Try\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC4004396119\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>\u003cstrong>Episode Transcript\u003c/strong>\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:49] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz-Gavarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. Inside a federal courthouse in downtown Oakland, in front of a judge and a jury of their peers, two of the most powerful men in the world are duking it out in court over whether OpenAI, the company behind ChatGPT, was built on a lie. Elon Musk is suing OpenAI and its CEO, Sam Altman. For abandoning their founding promise to develop AI for the benefit of humanity. And whether or not you actually believe any of them really had our best interests in mind, one thing is true, that the battle over who runs AI is all about ego and power.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ashley Ortiz: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:47] \u003c/em>No matter which side wins, the people are going to lose because they are not doing this actually for the benefit of humanity, it’s not about ethics, this is all about power plays within an unfettered, unregulated AI scheme.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:01] \u003c/em>Today, KQED’s Rachael Myrow takes us inside the OpenAI trial.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:19] \u003c/em>It seems like you’re in a pretty dynamic scene right now, Rachael. Can you actually tell us where you are?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:26] \u003c/em>I’m outside the federal courthouse in Oakland where Musk v. Altman et al. Is playing out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:36] \u003c/em>Rachael Myrow is a senior editor at KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:41] \u003c/em>This plaza is right on the street so you hear the chirping every time somebody presses a button to cross the street. You hear garbage trucks rolling past. Inside the courtroom is presided over by Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers and it is packed every single day. Armies of lawyers of course but also journalists from across the country, even a couple from France. And some members of the public. I’d like to call this the hottest theater ticket in Silicon Valley. We got to see Elon Musk spend four days on the witness stand. Sam Altman is sitting just a few feet away in the defense section. These two men genuinely cannot stand each other.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:03:30] \u003c/em>And I understand, Rachel, that there’s not just folks inside of the courtroom for this trial, but also outside protesting as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:03:41] \u003c/em>Yes, on the very first day, actually when jury selection was taking place, protesters gathered in large numbers outside the courthouse on the plaza with some very pointed and colorful signs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valerie Sizemore: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:03:57] \u003c/em>I used to be a software engineer, but have been unemployed by AI. So now I’m trying to make the resistance happen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:06] \u003c/em>I talked to one protester, Valerie Sizemore of Berkeley, who kind of represented, I think, a lot of Bayarians.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valerie Sizemore: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:15] \u003c/em>I’m not here because I care about the outcome of this trial. I really don’t care. I hope it’s really expensive for someone and like hurts both companies as much as possible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:27] \u003c/em>Yeah, and it’s, I guess, two-for-one for her to just be outside the courthouse protesting the both of them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:34] \u003c/em>Exactly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:39] \u003c/em>Well, Rachael, I wanna step back a little bit and talk about this trial and just how we even got here. I mean, remind us who is on trial and what exactly these two are fighting over?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:53] \u003c/em>So it’s a little more than two people. Elon Musk is suing Sam Altman and also Greg Brockman, who is OpenAI’s co-founder and president. Musk is sueing OpenAI itself and also Microsoft, which invested $13 billion in OpenAI after Musk left.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Interviewer: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:18] \u003c/em>All right, we’re gonna wrap up the day. I’m gonna do a fireside chat with Sam Altman.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:25] \u003c/em>Let’s dial the clock all the way back to 2015. Musk and Altman found OpenAI as a nonprofit explicitly to develop artificial general intelligence safely and for the benefit of all humanity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Altman: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:44] \u003c/em>You know, I think AI will probably, like most likely, sort of lead to the end of the world, but in the meantime, there will be great companies created with serious machine learning. I actually just agreed to fund a company that is not even really a company, sort of a semi-company, semi-nonprofit, doing AI safety research.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:04] \u003c/em>At some point shortly thereafter, it became clear to all parties involved, including Musk, that they needed to establish a for-profit arm as well in order to raise money to pay for things like computing power for this very energy-intensive computer software and also to bring in talent, to bring the best minds of the industry. Musk’s lawsuit is arguing that thereabouts Altman and other co-founders of OpenAI, because there were other people involved, betrayed the mission, that they were actually in it for the profit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Interviewer: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:45] \u003c/em>Open AI, I mean you seem somewhat frustrated with them. You were one of the big contributors early on?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Elon Musk: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:49] \u003c/em>The reason, I am the reason Open AI exists.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:54] \u003c/em>So he wants more than his money back. He wants Altman and OpenAI’s co-founder and president, Greg Brockman, taken off the board. And he wants $130 billion, disgorged by the for-profit and handed over to the non-profit. The word charity, Ericka, doesn’t appear once in OpenAI’s founding blog post, but Musk keeps referring to OpenAI as a charity. But as OpenAI lawyers like to point out, Musk left OpenAI and then he launched his own AI venture, XAI, which is not a nonprofit and arguably does not operate for the benefit of humanity, for which it has been sued repeatedly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:50] \u003c/em>So it sounds like Elon Musk is basically saying they stole his charity, and Sam Altman is saying, ‘You chose to walk away.’\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:02] \u003c/em>Yeah. That’s it in a nutshell. There was this funny moment when Musk was on the witness stand. He looked at the jury and he said, quote, it’s not OK to steal a charity. And then he predicted that if Open AI wins this case, the face of charity law in America could be altered forever. At some point, the judge broke in and said, let’s remind the jury, you’re not a lawyer. She’s talking to Musk. And then he replied. I did take Law 101, which got a laugh out of most people in the court.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:36] \u003c/em>Geez.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:39] \u003c/em>Rachael, what do we make of Sam Altman’s role in this? It sounds like Elon Musk is saying that Sam Altman lied to him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:46] \u003c/em>That is a very good question. I need to mention here that we have not seen Sam Altman take the stand in this trial yet. So Altman has not yet had the chance to make his case. Just a few weeks ago, we saw a comprehensive profile of Sam Altman in the New Yorker magazine talking to lots and lots of people that Sam Altmann is an inveterate liar, the kind of person who will tell you what you want to hear and then go back on it. We haven’t had the opportunity yet to really get into what his character was like during the early days of OpenAI, but pretty much everyone in that courtroom has read that article.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:09:47] \u003c/em>Coming up, what the OpenAI trial is really about. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:38] \u003c/em>I mean, Rachael, I gotta say, as I’m reading these stories about this case, it really just sounds like a fight between two of some of the richest billionaires in Silicon Valley over this company that they co-founded. But obviously, what’s at the center of it and what is at stake is this very powerful technology that even they seem to acknowledge has the potential to change the world. So what do you think this is really about?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:13] \u003c/em>Clearly about power, clearly about money, clearly about market dominance. And I do want to say that even though the judge is saying we are not going to talk about the AI apocalypse, it is something that is genuinely on the minds of all of these people in the industry in Silicon Valley and also the rest of us, right? I mean there are people here who take AI safety seriously. Who also think OpenAI has drifted dangerously from its mission. I mean, we’ve seen bad actors using the software who have upended the labor market, terrified all of us from a cybersecurity perspective, made it impossible to get redress as a customer and sometimes as a citizen, enabled a surveillance state here and abroad. I mean I could go on, Ericka, because It’s 100% clear to us and the people building this software that there’s a race to the bottom going on from a moral perspective.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:12:30] \u003c/em>I do want to ask you this question, Rachel, because Elon Musk is saying in this trial that he is the one standing up for the public on AI. Rachel, is there someone working in the public interest when it comes to AI and holding AI companies accountable?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:12:53] \u003c/em>Well, you know, don’t we wish? He’d like to present himself as thinking pro-human first, but you know, he also created XAI and has reportedly personally directed his engineers to make XAI a manifestly unsafe product. The judge noted the irony out loud. She said to Musk’s attorneys at one point, It is ironic that your client, despite these risks, is creating a company in the exact same space. And then she added, and I just thought this was so remarkable, coming from, again, a sitting federal judge, quote, I suspect there are people who don’t want to put the future in Mr. Musk’s hands, unquote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jill Horowitz: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:13:44] \u003c/em>And in that sense, I don’t understand why Musk is the one who gets to ask that question. Jill Horowitz, who specifically specializes in non-profit law. At Northwestern’s law school put it this way when parties have this much money and this much power they can trample over conventional protections of the public interest\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jill Horowitz: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:07] \u003c/em>We’ve got a CEO who is a very powerful player. And then we have this outside party who’s purported to be thinking about the best interest of the nonprofit, but he’s a competitor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:22] \u003c/em>Congress, you don’t need me to tell you, hasn’t passed any meaningful federal AI regulation. The Trump administration is lobbying alongside the lobbyists for unfettered freedom for the AI industry. And so we end up here, Ericka, in a federal courthouse in Oakland watching two billionaires fight over their recent past. This trial gives us a window into the wheeling and dealing. But it doesn’t give us any power to change the trajectory of AI.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:54] \u003c/em>Rachael what happens if if either Elon Musk or Sam Altman wins this trial?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:15:01] \u003c/em>So if Musk wins, Judge Gonzalez-Rogers could order OpenAI to revert to a non-profit structure, remove Altman and Brockman, direct some $130 billion in gains back to the non- profit foundation. That would be legally unprecedented and would certainly send shockwaves throughout Silicon Valley. If OpenAI wins, the restructuring stands, the IPO proceeds. And the message to the industry is essentially, you can do this too. You can take a non-profit, make it nominally in charge of a for-profit arm that you build into a trillion-dollar company, and the legal system won’t stop you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:15:52] \u003c/em>Last question for you, Rachael. For the protesters outside, what do you think they want to see happen? And do you they care here about who wins?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:03] \u003c/em>My sense from talking with Ashley Ortiz, who was one of the organizers of the first and biggest protest outside, is that for a lot of the people out here carrying signs and wearing t-shirts that say stop AI, neither Musk nor Altman represents their interests and by extension the public’s interests.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ashley Ortiz: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:28] \u003c/em>Decision everyone sucks here and y’all both need to take responsibility for your part in this crappy situation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:34] \u003c/em>They want accountability for AI, period. I don’t know if they actually think they’re gonna get what they’re asking for, but they wanna make a noise while they can.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ashley Ortiz: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:46] \u003c/em>We’re letting them both know that both sides, no matter which side wins, the people are going to lose because they are not doing this actually for the benefit of humanity. It’s not about ethics. This is all about power plays within an unfettered, unregulated AI scape.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:17:06] \u003c/em>These are the models that are changing our world, and they’re doing it now. And regardless of whether OpenAI survives this trial, we’re still gonna have the world that OpenAI helped to create.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:17:28] \u003c/em>Well, Rachael, thank you so much for chatting with me outside the courtroom and for making the time in your busy morning, I appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:17:36] \u003c/em>You bet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by The Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco-Northern California Local.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Jurors and journalists are getting a peek into the world of OpenAI and its founding as two of the richest, most powerful men in tech duke it out in an Oakland federal courthouse. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Elon Musk claims that Sam Altman and other co-founders of OpenAI abandoned their founding promise to develop AI for the benefit of humanity. But does anyone here really have our best interests at heart? KQED’s Rachael Myrow takes us inside.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Links:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli style=\"list-style-type: none\">\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12081290/how-to-unscramble-an-omelet-in-silicon-valley-the-musk-v-altman-trial-that-will-try\">How to Unscramble an Omelet in Silicon Valley: The Musk v. Altman Trial That Will Try\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC4004396119\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003ch3>\u003cstrong>Episode Transcript\u003c/strong>\u003c/h3>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:00:49] \u003c/em>I’m Ericka Cruz-Gavarra and welcome to The Bay, local news to keep you rooted. Inside a federal courthouse in downtown Oakland, in front of a judge and a jury of their peers, two of the most powerful men in the world are duking it out in court over whether OpenAI, the company behind ChatGPT, was built on a lie. Elon Musk is suing OpenAI and its CEO, Sam Altman. For abandoning their founding promise to develop AI for the benefit of humanity. And whether or not you actually believe any of them really had our best interests in mind, one thing is true, that the battle over who runs AI is all about ego and power.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ashley Ortiz: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:01:47] \u003c/em>No matter which side wins, the people are going to lose because they are not doing this actually for the benefit of humanity, it’s not about ethics, this is all about power plays within an unfettered, unregulated AI scheme.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:01] \u003c/em>Today, KQED’s Rachael Myrow takes us inside the OpenAI trial.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:19] \u003c/em>It seems like you’re in a pretty dynamic scene right now, Rachael. Can you actually tell us where you are?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:26] \u003c/em>I’m outside the federal courthouse in Oakland where Musk v. Altman et al. Is playing out.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:36] \u003c/em>Rachael Myrow is a senior editor at KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:02:41] \u003c/em>This plaza is right on the street so you hear the chirping every time somebody presses a button to cross the street. You hear garbage trucks rolling past. Inside the courtroom is presided over by Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers and it is packed every single day. Armies of lawyers of course but also journalists from across the country, even a couple from France. And some members of the public. I’d like to call this the hottest theater ticket in Silicon Valley. We got to see Elon Musk spend four days on the witness stand. Sam Altman is sitting just a few feet away in the defense section. These two men genuinely cannot stand each other.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:03:30] \u003c/em>And I understand, Rachel, that there’s not just folks inside of the courtroom for this trial, but also outside protesting as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:03:41] \u003c/em>Yes, on the very first day, actually when jury selection was taking place, protesters gathered in large numbers outside the courthouse on the plaza with some very pointed and colorful signs.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valerie Sizemore: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:03:57] \u003c/em>I used to be a software engineer, but have been unemployed by AI. So now I’m trying to make the resistance happen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:06] \u003c/em>I talked to one protester, Valerie Sizemore of Berkeley, who kind of represented, I think, a lot of Bayarians.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Valerie Sizemore: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:15] \u003c/em>I’m not here because I care about the outcome of this trial. I really don’t care. I hope it’s really expensive for someone and like hurts both companies as much as possible.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:27] \u003c/em>Yeah, and it’s, I guess, two-for-one for her to just be outside the courthouse protesting the both of them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:34] \u003c/em>Exactly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:39] \u003c/em>Well, Rachael, I wanna step back a little bit and talk about this trial and just how we even got here. I mean, remind us who is on trial and what exactly these two are fighting over?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:04:53] \u003c/em>So it’s a little more than two people. Elon Musk is suing Sam Altman and also Greg Brockman, who is OpenAI’s co-founder and president. Musk is sueing OpenAI itself and also Microsoft, which invested $13 billion in OpenAI after Musk left.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Interviewer: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:18] \u003c/em>All right, we’re gonna wrap up the day. I’m gonna do a fireside chat with Sam Altman.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:25] \u003c/em>Let’s dial the clock all the way back to 2015. Musk and Altman found OpenAI as a nonprofit explicitly to develop artificial general intelligence safely and for the benefit of all humanity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Sam Altman: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:05:44] \u003c/em>You know, I think AI will probably, like most likely, sort of lead to the end of the world, but in the meantime, there will be great companies created with serious machine learning. I actually just agreed to fund a company that is not even really a company, sort of a semi-company, semi-nonprofit, doing AI safety research.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:04] \u003c/em>At some point shortly thereafter, it became clear to all parties involved, including Musk, that they needed to establish a for-profit arm as well in order to raise money to pay for things like computing power for this very energy-intensive computer software and also to bring in talent, to bring the best minds of the industry. Musk’s lawsuit is arguing that thereabouts Altman and other co-founders of OpenAI, because there were other people involved, betrayed the mission, that they were actually in it for the profit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Interviewer: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:45] \u003c/em>Open AI, I mean you seem somewhat frustrated with them. You were one of the big contributors early on?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Elon Musk: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:49] \u003c/em>The reason, I am the reason Open AI exists.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:06:54] \u003c/em>So he wants more than his money back. He wants Altman and OpenAI’s co-founder and president, Greg Brockman, taken off the board. And he wants $130 billion, disgorged by the for-profit and handed over to the non-profit. The word charity, Ericka, doesn’t appear once in OpenAI’s founding blog post, but Musk keeps referring to OpenAI as a charity. But as OpenAI lawyers like to point out, Musk left OpenAI and then he launched his own AI venture, XAI, which is not a nonprofit and arguably does not operate for the benefit of humanity, for which it has been sued repeatedly.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:07:50] \u003c/em>So it sounds like Elon Musk is basically saying they stole his charity, and Sam Altman is saying, ‘You chose to walk away.’\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:02] \u003c/em>Yeah. That’s it in a nutshell. There was this funny moment when Musk was on the witness stand. He looked at the jury and he said, quote, it’s not OK to steal a charity. And then he predicted that if Open AI wins this case, the face of charity law in America could be altered forever. At some point, the judge broke in and said, let’s remind the jury, you’re not a lawyer. She’s talking to Musk. And then he replied. I did take Law 101, which got a laugh out of most people in the court.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:36] \u003c/em>Geez.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:39] \u003c/em>Rachael, what do we make of Sam Altman’s role in this? It sounds like Elon Musk is saying that Sam Altman lied to him.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:08:46] \u003c/em>That is a very good question. I need to mention here that we have not seen Sam Altman take the stand in this trial yet. So Altman has not yet had the chance to make his case. Just a few weeks ago, we saw a comprehensive profile of Sam Altman in the New Yorker magazine talking to lots and lots of people that Sam Altmann is an inveterate liar, the kind of person who will tell you what you want to hear and then go back on it. We haven’t had the opportunity yet to really get into what his character was like during the early days of OpenAI, but pretty much everyone in that courtroom has read that article.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:09:47] \u003c/em>Coming up, what the OpenAI trial is really about. Stay with us.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:10:38] \u003c/em>I mean, Rachael, I gotta say, as I’m reading these stories about this case, it really just sounds like a fight between two of some of the richest billionaires in Silicon Valley over this company that they co-founded. But obviously, what’s at the center of it and what is at stake is this very powerful technology that even they seem to acknowledge has the potential to change the world. So what do you think this is really about?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:11:13] \u003c/em>Clearly about power, clearly about money, clearly about market dominance. And I do want to say that even though the judge is saying we are not going to talk about the AI apocalypse, it is something that is genuinely on the minds of all of these people in the industry in Silicon Valley and also the rest of us, right? I mean there are people here who take AI safety seriously. Who also think OpenAI has drifted dangerously from its mission. I mean, we’ve seen bad actors using the software who have upended the labor market, terrified all of us from a cybersecurity perspective, made it impossible to get redress as a customer and sometimes as a citizen, enabled a surveillance state here and abroad. I mean I could go on, Ericka, because It’s 100% clear to us and the people building this software that there’s a race to the bottom going on from a moral perspective.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:12:30] \u003c/em>I do want to ask you this question, Rachel, because Elon Musk is saying in this trial that he is the one standing up for the public on AI. Rachel, is there someone working in the public interest when it comes to AI and holding AI companies accountable?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:12:53] \u003c/em>Well, you know, don’t we wish? He’d like to present himself as thinking pro-human first, but you know, he also created XAI and has reportedly personally directed his engineers to make XAI a manifestly unsafe product. The judge noted the irony out loud. She said to Musk’s attorneys at one point, It is ironic that your client, despite these risks, is creating a company in the exact same space. And then she added, and I just thought this was so remarkable, coming from, again, a sitting federal judge, quote, I suspect there are people who don’t want to put the future in Mr. Musk’s hands, unquote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jill Horowitz: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:13:44] \u003c/em>And in that sense, I don’t understand why Musk is the one who gets to ask that question. Jill Horowitz, who specifically specializes in non-profit law. At Northwestern’s law school put it this way when parties have this much money and this much power they can trample over conventional protections of the public interest\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Jill Horowitz: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:07] \u003c/em>We’ve got a CEO who is a very powerful player. And then we have this outside party who’s purported to be thinking about the best interest of the nonprofit, but he’s a competitor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:22] \u003c/em>Congress, you don’t need me to tell you, hasn’t passed any meaningful federal AI regulation. The Trump administration is lobbying alongside the lobbyists for unfettered freedom for the AI industry. And so we end up here, Ericka, in a federal courthouse in Oakland watching two billionaires fight over their recent past. This trial gives us a window into the wheeling and dealing. But it doesn’t give us any power to change the trajectory of AI.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:14:54] \u003c/em>Rachael what happens if if either Elon Musk or Sam Altman wins this trial?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>\u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:15:01] \u003c/em>So if Musk wins, Judge Gonzalez-Rogers could order OpenAI to revert to a non-profit structure, remove Altman and Brockman, direct some $130 billion in gains back to the non- profit foundation. That would be legally unprecedented and would certainly send shockwaves throughout Silicon Valley. If OpenAI wins, the restructuring stands, the IPO proceeds. And the message to the industry is essentially, you can do this too. You can take a non-profit, make it nominally in charge of a for-profit arm that you build into a trillion-dollar company, and the legal system won’t stop you.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:15:52] \u003c/em>Last question for you, Rachael. For the protesters outside, what do you think they want to see happen? And do you they care here about who wins?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:03] \u003c/em>My sense from talking with Ashley Ortiz, who was one of the organizers of the first and biggest protest outside, is that for a lot of the people out here carrying signs and wearing t-shirts that say stop AI, neither Musk nor Altman represents their interests and by extension the public’s interests.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ashley Ortiz: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:28] \u003c/em>Decision everyone sucks here and y’all both need to take responsibility for your part in this crappy situation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:34] \u003c/em>They want accountability for AI, period. I don’t know if they actually think they’re gonna get what they’re asking for, but they wanna make a noise while they can.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ashley Ortiz: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:16:46] \u003c/em>We’re letting them both know that both sides, no matter which side wins, the people are going to lose because they are not doing this actually for the benefit of humanity. It’s not about ethics. This is all about power plays within an unfettered, unregulated AI scape.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:17:06] \u003c/em>These are the models that are changing our world, and they’re doing it now. And regardless of whether OpenAI survives this trial, we’re still gonna have the world that OpenAI helped to create.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Ericka Cruz Guevarra: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:17:28] \u003c/em>Well, Rachael, thank you so much for chatting with me outside the courtroom and for making the time in your busy morning, I appreciate it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Rachael Myrow: \u003c/b>\u003cem>[00:17:36] \u003c/em>You bet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>The families of victims of a school shooting in a British Columbia town sued artificial intelligence company \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/open-ai\">OpenAI \u003c/a>in a San Francisco court this week, alleging that the company behind \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/chatgpt\">ChatGPT\u003c/a> failed to alert police of the shooter’s alarming interactions with the chatbot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One of the lawsuits was filed on behalf of Shannda Aviugana-Durand, an education assistant who was shot and killed in a library at \u003ca href=\"https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BU49CY30r0KCfBs0NJuk5S0KJ2E5VEuIF2IpxdwviIo/edit?tab=t.0\">Tumbler Ridge Secondary School\u003c/a>. The suit alleges negligence, aiding and abetting a mass shooting, wrongful death and liability, among other claims. According to the lawsuit, Aviugana-Durand’s daughter was present at the time of the attack.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The educational assistant was one of six people who were killed by an 18-year-old in February. The teen — who later shot herself — also killed her mother and her 11-year-old half-brother at home beforehand. Twenty-five people were also injured in the attack, Canada’s deadliest mass shooting in years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Another lawsuit was filed Wednesday on behalf of 12-year-old Maya Gebala, who was critically injured in the February shooting. The plaintiffs’ attorney, Jay Edelson, said in an interview with the \u003cem>Associated Press\u003c/em> that decisions made by OpenAI and its CEO Sam Altman “have destroyed the town. The people are really resilient, but what happened is unimaginable.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Altman sent a letter last week \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/openai-altman-tumbler-ridge-killings-apology-dec2adaad3946583519370eede6a99e2\">formally apologizing\u003c/a> to the community that his company did not notify law enforcement about the shooter’s online behavior in the weeks leading up to the attack.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The case highlights concerns about the harms posed by \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/ai-sycophancy-chatbots-science-study-8dc61e69278b661cab1e53d38b4173b6\">overly agreeable AI chatbots\u003c/a> and what obligations the tech industry has to control them or notify authorities about planned violence by chatbot users. This month, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/missing-grad-students-florida-6279adeef3d0540865de39ab3d6f8093\">prosecutors investigating the deaths\u003c/a> of two University of South Florida doctoral students said that the suspect asked ChatGPT about body disposal in the lead-up to the students’ disappearance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079761\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079761 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanGetty2.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanGetty2.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanGetty2-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanGetty2-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">OpenAI CEO Sam Altman speaks during the BlackRock Infrastructure Summit on March 11, 2026, in Washington, D.C. \u003ccite>(Anna Moneymaker/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“It’s not the first lawsuit of its kind,” said Robin Feldman, law professor at UC Law San Francisco and director of its AI Law and Innovation Institute. “This is part of an early wave of lawsuits in which citizens are asking to hold LLMs responsible for harms that happen down the line, whether they are crimes, mental health problems, suicide.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“ChatGPT was first on the scene. And it is the most widely known of the LLMs,” Feldman said. “That puts it in the hot seat as the law tries to understand how to wrangle this unusual beast.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In response to the lawsuit, OpenAI said in a written statement that the “events in Tumbler Ridge are a tragedy. We have a zero-tolerance policy for using our tools to assist in committing violence.”[aside postID=news_12081916 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AP26118555622828-2000x1333.jpg']“As we shared with Canadian officials, we have already strengthened our safeguards, including improving how ChatGPT responds to signs of distress, connecting people with local support and mental health resources, strengthening how we assess and escalate potential threats of violence, and improving detection of repeat policy violators,” the company said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Edelson, a Chicago-based lawyer known for taking on the tech industry, is already juggling a number of high-profile cases against OpenAI, including from the family of a California teenager who killed himself after \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/ai-chatbot-teens-congress-chatgpt-character-ce3959b6a3ea1a4997bf1ccabb4f0de2\">conversations with ChatGPT\u003c/a> and another from the heirs of an 83-year-old Connecticut woman \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/ai-chatgpt-wrongful-death-lawsuit-greenwich-97fd7da31c0fa08f3d3ea9efd6713151\">killed by her son\u003c/a> after ChatGPT allegedly amplified the man’s “paranoid delusions.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This is not a passive technology,” Edelson said, comparing the chatbot interactions with a more conventional online search for information. “What we’ve seen in the past is that (for) people who are mentally ill, the chatbot will validate what they’re saying and then amplify what they’re saying.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last week, Edelson visited the small town of Tumbler Ridge and met with dozens of people in the basement of a visitor center. He also visited Gebala at a children’s hospital in Vancouver, where she remains hospitalized and seemed alert but unable to speak.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was so heartbreaking,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12082198\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12082198 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TumblerRidgeGetty2.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TumblerRidgeGetty2.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TumblerRidgeGetty2-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TumblerRidgeGetty2-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Candles, flowers, photographs, plush toys and other items at a makeshift memorial for the victims four days after a deadly mass shooting took place at a school, in the town of Tumbler Ridge, British Columbia, Canada, on Feb. 13, 2026. \u003ccite>(Paige Taylor White/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The lawsuits filed Wednesday also represent the families of the five slain children targeted in the school shooting: Zoey Benoit, Abel Mwansa Jr., Ticaria “Tiki” Lampert and Kylie Smith, all 12, and Ezekiel Schofield, 13.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After the shootings, OpenAI came forward to say that last June, the company flagged the shooter’s account as having been used to discuss violence against other people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The company said it considered whether to refer the account to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, but determined at the time that the account activity didn’t meet a threshold for referral to law enforcement. OpenAI banned the account in June for violating its usage policy.[aside postID=news_12080610 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/06/GettyImages-2155035557-1020x680.jpg']The lawsuits filed Wednesday allege “the victims didn’t learn this because OpenAI was forthcoming, but because \u003ca href=\"https://www.wsj.com/us-news/law/openai-employees-raised-alarms-about-canada-shooting-suspect-months-ago-b585df62\">its own employees leaked it to \u003cem>The Wall Street Journal\u003c/em>\u003c/a> after they could no longer stomach the company’s silence.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In \u003ca href=\"https://tumblerridgelines.com/2026/04/24/openai-apologizes-to-tumbler-ridge/\">his letter\u003c/a>, Altman said he was “deeply sorry that we did not alert law enforcement to the account that was banned in June.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“While I know words can never be enough, I believe an apology is necessary to recognize the harm and irreversible loss your community has suffered,” Altman wrote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>British Columbia Premier David Eby, \u003ca href=\"https://x.com/dave_eby/status/2047751590803886291?s=46&t=7BBzFwo6eYLzJIVfAlumEQ\">in a social media post\u003c/a>, called the apology “necessary, and yet grossly insufficient for the devastation done to the families of Tumbler Ridge.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Gebala lawsuit accuses OpenAI of negligence involving a failure to warn law enforcement and “aiding and abetting a mass shooting.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Along with damages, the Gebala lawsuit seeks a court order that would require OpenAI to ban users from ChatGPT if their accounts were deactivated for violent misuse, and to require the company to alert law enforcement when its systems identify someone who poses a “real-world risk of violence.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>An earlier case was filed in a court in British Columbia, but a team of lawyers in both countries is seeking to bring the affiliated cases to San Francisco, where OpenAI is headquartered.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>‘Untried territory’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Feldman called reports that the company flagged the risk but failed to act effectively “deeply troubling.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As with so much about AI, the lawsuit will take us into untried territory,” she said. “The old doctrines are being applied to new circumstances.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She said if the families were to win, the company would have to pay damages and assume responsibility for altering its platform to identify and respond to risks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The major issues that the lawsuit will tackle are whether OpenAI and ChatGPT are protected by the First Amendment and whether or not OpenAI had “a duty to act,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12082201\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12082201 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TumblerRidgeGetty3.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TumblerRidgeGetty3.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TumblerRidgeGetty3-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TumblerRidgeGetty3-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Community members attend a vigil to honor the victims of one of Canada’s deadliest mass shootings in Tumbler Ridge, British Columbia, Canada, on Feb. 13, 2026. \u003ccite>(Paige Taylor White/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>She said that there are \u003ca href=\"https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/R46751\">parts\u003c/a> of U.S. law that shield tech companies from liability for content that their users host. Essentially, this means platforms are more like “bulletin boards” and “are not responsible for the content.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But this case would raise the question, she said, “Are LLMs like a bulletin board or publisher? Or they like a facilitator who helped with the crime?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some companies struggle with the burden of responsibility when reviewing potential threats to public safety, Feldman said, “If they try to help out, they can be viewed as accepting the mantle of responsibility.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to Feldman, families are also likely to argue that the LLM “is a defective product without appropriate safeguards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“In that case, the question is the following: ‘Is the LLM a defective product, or merely a product that was used improperly? And is it analogous to a product at all?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“All of these are tough questions as we enter the age of AI, and the courts are just beginning to explore them,” Feldman said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>The Associated Press’ Jim Morris contributed to this story.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>The families of victims of a school shooting in a British Columbia town sued artificial intelligence company \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/open-ai\">OpenAI \u003c/a>in a San Francisco court this week, alleging that the company behind \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/chatgpt\">ChatGPT\u003c/a> failed to alert police of the shooter’s alarming interactions with the chatbot.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>One of the lawsuits was filed on behalf of Shannda Aviugana-Durand, an education assistant who was shot and killed in a library at \u003ca href=\"https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BU49CY30r0KCfBs0NJuk5S0KJ2E5VEuIF2IpxdwviIo/edit?tab=t.0\">Tumbler Ridge Secondary School\u003c/a>. The suit alleges negligence, aiding and abetting a mass shooting, wrongful death and liability, among other claims. According to the lawsuit, Aviugana-Durand’s daughter was present at the time of the attack.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The educational assistant was one of six people who were killed by an 18-year-old in February. The teen — who later shot herself — also killed her mother and her 11-year-old half-brother at home beforehand. Twenty-five people were also injured in the attack, Canada’s deadliest mass shooting in years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Another lawsuit was filed Wednesday on behalf of 12-year-old Maya Gebala, who was critically injured in the February shooting. The plaintiffs’ attorney, Jay Edelson, said in an interview with the \u003cem>Associated Press\u003c/em> that decisions made by OpenAI and its CEO Sam Altman “have destroyed the town. The people are really resilient, but what happened is unimaginable.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Altman sent a letter last week \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/openai-altman-tumbler-ridge-killings-apology-dec2adaad3946583519370eede6a99e2\">formally apologizing\u003c/a> to the community that his company did not notify law enforcement about the shooter’s online behavior in the weeks leading up to the attack.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The case highlights concerns about the harms posed by \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/ai-sycophancy-chatbots-science-study-8dc61e69278b661cab1e53d38b4173b6\">overly agreeable AI chatbots\u003c/a> and what obligations the tech industry has to control them or notify authorities about planned violence by chatbot users. This month, \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/missing-grad-students-florida-6279adeef3d0540865de39ab3d6f8093\">prosecutors investigating the deaths\u003c/a> of two University of South Florida doctoral students said that the suspect asked ChatGPT about body disposal in the lead-up to the students’ disappearance.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079761\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079761 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanGetty2.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanGetty2.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanGetty2-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanGetty2-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">OpenAI CEO Sam Altman speaks during the BlackRock Infrastructure Summit on March 11, 2026, in Washington, D.C. \u003ccite>(Anna Moneymaker/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“It’s not the first lawsuit of its kind,” said Robin Feldman, law professor at UC Law San Francisco and director of its AI Law and Innovation Institute. “This is part of an early wave of lawsuits in which citizens are asking to hold LLMs responsible for harms that happen down the line, whether they are crimes, mental health problems, suicide.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“ChatGPT was first on the scene. And it is the most widely known of the LLMs,” Feldman said. “That puts it in the hot seat as the law tries to understand how to wrangle this unusual beast.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In response to the lawsuit, OpenAI said in a written statement that the “events in Tumbler Ridge are a tragedy. We have a zero-tolerance policy for using our tools to assist in committing violence.”\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“As we shared with Canadian officials, we have already strengthened our safeguards, including improving how ChatGPT responds to signs of distress, connecting people with local support and mental health resources, strengthening how we assess and escalate potential threats of violence, and improving detection of repeat policy violators,” the company said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Edelson, a Chicago-based lawyer known for taking on the tech industry, is already juggling a number of high-profile cases against OpenAI, including from the family of a California teenager who killed himself after \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/ai-chatbot-teens-congress-chatgpt-character-ce3959b6a3ea1a4997bf1ccabb4f0de2\">conversations with ChatGPT\u003c/a> and another from the heirs of an 83-year-old Connecticut woman \u003ca href=\"https://apnews.com/article/ai-chatgpt-wrongful-death-lawsuit-greenwich-97fd7da31c0fa08f3d3ea9efd6713151\">killed by her son\u003c/a> after ChatGPT allegedly amplified the man’s “paranoid delusions.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This is not a passive technology,” Edelson said, comparing the chatbot interactions with a more conventional online search for information. “What we’ve seen in the past is that (for) people who are mentally ill, the chatbot will validate what they’re saying and then amplify what they’re saying.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last week, Edelson visited the small town of Tumbler Ridge and met with dozens of people in the basement of a visitor center. He also visited Gebala at a children’s hospital in Vancouver, where she remains hospitalized and seemed alert but unable to speak.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It was so heartbreaking,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12082198\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12082198 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TumblerRidgeGetty2.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TumblerRidgeGetty2.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TumblerRidgeGetty2-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TumblerRidgeGetty2-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Candles, flowers, photographs, plush toys and other items at a makeshift memorial for the victims four days after a deadly mass shooting took place at a school, in the town of Tumbler Ridge, British Columbia, Canada, on Feb. 13, 2026. \u003ccite>(Paige Taylor White/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The lawsuits filed Wednesday also represent the families of the five slain children targeted in the school shooting: Zoey Benoit, Abel Mwansa Jr., Ticaria “Tiki” Lampert and Kylie Smith, all 12, and Ezekiel Schofield, 13.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After the shootings, OpenAI came forward to say that last June, the company flagged the shooter’s account as having been used to discuss violence against other people.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The company said it considered whether to refer the account to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, but determined at the time that the account activity didn’t meet a threshold for referral to law enforcement. OpenAI banned the account in June for violating its usage policy.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The lawsuits filed Wednesday allege “the victims didn’t learn this because OpenAI was forthcoming, but because \u003ca href=\"https://www.wsj.com/us-news/law/openai-employees-raised-alarms-about-canada-shooting-suspect-months-ago-b585df62\">its own employees leaked it to \u003cem>The Wall Street Journal\u003c/em>\u003c/a> after they could no longer stomach the company’s silence.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In \u003ca href=\"https://tumblerridgelines.com/2026/04/24/openai-apologizes-to-tumbler-ridge/\">his letter\u003c/a>, Altman said he was “deeply sorry that we did not alert law enforcement to the account that was banned in June.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“While I know words can never be enough, I believe an apology is necessary to recognize the harm and irreversible loss your community has suffered,” Altman wrote.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>British Columbia Premier David Eby, \u003ca href=\"https://x.com/dave_eby/status/2047751590803886291?s=46&t=7BBzFwo6eYLzJIVfAlumEQ\">in a social media post\u003c/a>, called the apology “necessary, and yet grossly insufficient for the devastation done to the families of Tumbler Ridge.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Gebala lawsuit accuses OpenAI of negligence involving a failure to warn law enforcement and “aiding and abetting a mass shooting.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Along with damages, the Gebala lawsuit seeks a court order that would require OpenAI to ban users from ChatGPT if their accounts were deactivated for violent misuse, and to require the company to alert law enforcement when its systems identify someone who poses a “real-world risk of violence.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>An earlier case was filed in a court in British Columbia, but a team of lawyers in both countries is seeking to bring the affiliated cases to San Francisco, where OpenAI is headquartered.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>‘Untried territory’\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Feldman called reports that the company flagged the risk but failed to act effectively “deeply troubling.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“As with so much about AI, the lawsuit will take us into untried territory,” she said. “The old doctrines are being applied to new circumstances.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She said if the families were to win, the company would have to pay damages and assume responsibility for altering its platform to identify and respond to risks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The major issues that the lawsuit will tackle are whether OpenAI and ChatGPT are protected by the First Amendment and whether or not OpenAI had “a duty to act,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12082201\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12082201 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TumblerRidgeGetty3.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TumblerRidgeGetty3.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TumblerRidgeGetty3-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/05/TumblerRidgeGetty3-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Community members attend a vigil to honor the victims of one of Canada’s deadliest mass shootings in Tumbler Ridge, British Columbia, Canada, on Feb. 13, 2026. \u003ccite>(Paige Taylor White/AFP via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>She said that there are \u003ca href=\"https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/R46751\">parts\u003c/a> of U.S. law that shield tech companies from liability for content that their users host. Essentially, this means platforms are more like “bulletin boards” and “are not responsible for the content.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But this case would raise the question, she said, “Are LLMs like a bulletin board or publisher? Or they like a facilitator who helped with the crime?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Some companies struggle with the burden of responsibility when reviewing potential threats to public safety, Feldman said, “If they try to help out, they can be viewed as accepting the mantle of responsibility.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to Feldman, families are also likely to argue that the LLM “is a defective product without appropriate safeguards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“In that case, the question is the following: ‘Is the LLM a defective product, or merely a product that was used improperly? And is it analogous to a product at all?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“All of these are tough questions as we enter the age of AI, and the courts are just beginning to explore them,” Feldman said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>The Associated Press’ Jim Morris contributed to this story.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>During the second day of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12081603/elon-musk-takes-aim-at-openai-as-trial-begins-its-not-ok-to-steal-a-charity\">landmark trial between Sam Altman and Elon Musk\u003c/a>, the Tesla founder told the Oakland courthouse that he was a “fool” to fund OpenAI through its early years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Testifying in the lawsuit he brought against Altman, which claims the company’s creators betrayed their mission for profits, Musk suggested Wednesday that Altman and cofounder Greg Brockman wanted to “have your cake and eat it too.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If you go nonprofit, you’ve got a sort of moral high ground,” he testified.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Musk’s testimony tells one version of founding OpenAI: that he, fearing the dangers of artificial intelligence, pursued its development with the goal of benefiting the common good, alongside, he thought, like-minded collaborators. But behind the scenes, those cofounders engaged in a “long con” to profit at his expense.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“What they really wanted was a for-profit, where they could make as much money as possible,” Musk said later.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Whether the jury believes him will be integral to the decision they’re tasked with making, as they determine whether OpenAI breached charitable trust and engaged in unjust enrichment as it evolved from a nonprofit organization to its current $730 billion iteration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Under cross-examination, Altman’s attorney, William Savitt, questioned Musk’s story and credibility as an altruistic benefactor. He pointed to an email Musk sent to Altman in 2015, which said it would be “probably better” if OpenAI operated as a for-profit company with a parallel nonprofit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081637\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12081637\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-01-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1125\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-01-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-01-KQED-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-01-KQED-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-01-KQED-1200x675.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">OpenAI’s lead counsel, William Savitt, presents opening statements in the trial in which Elon Musk claims that Sam Altman and OpenAI abandoned their founding promise to develop AI for the benefit of humanity, rather than solely for profit, in Oakland on April 28, 2026. \u003ccite>(Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In another email sent to colleagues at his neurotechnology company, Neuralink, Musk said that Google’s AI development was moving very fast, and that he was concerned OpenAI was not on the path to catch up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Setting it up as a nonprofit might, in hindsight, have been the wrong move,” Musk wrote. “Sense of urgency is not as high.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Savitt asked if, in 2017, Musk suggested at a party that OpenAI should create a for-profit. He said it was just after the company’s AI model had beaten \u003cem>Defense of the Ancients, \u003c/em>a battle video game, which was a pivotal moment in the development process.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Musk said he didn’t remember giving instructions to create a for-profit at the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This was nine years ago,” he said.[aside postID=news_12081603 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-02-KQED.jpg']Savitt said Tuesday that in 2017, OpenAI executives, including Musk, were in the midst of conversations about whether and how to transition the company to a for-profit structure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to OpenAI’s court filings, as early as summer 2017, Musk had insisted on holding a majority equity stake in any for-profit entity, serving as CEO and controlling its board of directors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pressed by Savitt about what Musk meant by “expressing what you said about control,” the Tesla founder and billionaire said: “I try to be as literal as possible.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the fall of 2017, Brockman and Ilya Sutskever, another top OpenAI executive, emailed Musk with concerns about the for-profit structure he proposed. Shortly thereafter, discussions over the structure collapsed, and Musk stopped making significant quarterly funding contributions, OpenAI alleges.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He left the company less than six months later.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Savitt framed the breakdown and Musk’s exit as a result of his not getting control of the for-profit, and the other executives’ focus on maintaining its philanthropic mission. He suggested that Musk tried to pressure them to accept his terms by pausing the majority of his financial backing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You knew that would create financial pressure for the organization,” Savitt said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081686\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12081686\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-04-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1125\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-04-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-04-KQED-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-04-KQED-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-04-KQED-1200x675.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Steve Molo, Elon Musk’s attorney, presents opening statements in the trial in which Elon Musk (center-right) claims that Sam Altman (right) and OpenAI abandoned their founding promise to develop AI for the benefit of humanity, rather than solely for profit, in Oakland on April 28, 2026. \u003ccite>(Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Musk denied that was his intention. Instead, he alleged that Altman convinced Brockman and the others to go against his proposal, and that their concern over his desire for control was disingenuous.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m not going to fund something if I don’t have confidence in the people,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When asked whether he proposed that OpenAI be folded into Tesla, Musk said: “There were a lot of ideas that were brainstormed at the time.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In an email, he wrote that doing so would be the “only path that could even hope to hold a candle to Google.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Musk said he left OpenAI in February 2018 because he was focused on Tesla’s survival, and believed that OpenAI intended to continue operating as a nonprofit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Savitt also laid out a series of exchanges between Musk and Altman, in which the OpenAI CEO kept him apprised of the company’s corporate structure. He said in March 2018, Musk responded to an email that noted the creation of a for-profit entity of OpenAI with “OK by me,” and was sent a term sheet for OpenAI LP that summer.[aside postID=news_12081290 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260422-ALTMANMUSK-MD-01-KQED.jpg']Savitt also said Altman emailed Musk a draft of the company’s public announcement of its for-profit arm in March 2019, and texted him asking if he had time to talk about Microsoft’s plan to invest in OpenAI. Musk never responded to that text, according to Savitt.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Musk said he was busy with his other companies in 2018, and while he was aware that it had added a for-profit entity, he hadn’t lost complete faith in the company. While he’d suspended quarterly $5 million funding contributions prior to his departure, he continued to make some contributions until 2020.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He said that he’d gone from enthusiastically supportive to uncertain about OpenAI’s mission, but that he’d fully suspended his contributions when he felt that the company was “deliberately not a nonprofit.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When asked why he waited until 2024 to bring the suit, Musk said that’s when he determined OpenAI breached charitable trust.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Thinking that someone might steal your car is not the same as [if] someone has stolen your car,” Musk said. He said after enlisting his attorney, Alex Spiro, to investigate, he heard from him in 2023 that “the car had been stolen.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I would have sued sooner if I thought the charity had been stolen sooner,” Musk continued.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The trial and Musk’s testimony are expected to continue on Thursday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>During the second day of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12081603/elon-musk-takes-aim-at-openai-as-trial-begins-its-not-ok-to-steal-a-charity\">landmark trial between Sam Altman and Elon Musk\u003c/a>, the Tesla founder told the Oakland courthouse that he was a “fool” to fund OpenAI through its early years.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Testifying in the lawsuit he brought against Altman, which claims the company’s creators betrayed their mission for profits, Musk suggested Wednesday that Altman and cofounder Greg Brockman wanted to “have your cake and eat it too.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“If you go nonprofit, you’ve got a sort of moral high ground,” he testified.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Musk’s testimony tells one version of founding OpenAI: that he, fearing the dangers of artificial intelligence, pursued its development with the goal of benefiting the common good, alongside, he thought, like-minded collaborators. But behind the scenes, those cofounders engaged in a “long con” to profit at his expense.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“What they really wanted was a for-profit, where they could make as much money as possible,” Musk said later.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Whether the jury believes him will be integral to the decision they’re tasked with making, as they determine whether OpenAI breached charitable trust and engaged in unjust enrichment as it evolved from a nonprofit organization to its current $730 billion iteration.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Under cross-examination, Altman’s attorney, William Savitt, questioned Musk’s story and credibility as an altruistic benefactor. He pointed to an email Musk sent to Altman in 2015, which said it would be “probably better” if OpenAI operated as a for-profit company with a parallel nonprofit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081637\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12081637\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-01-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1125\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-01-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-01-KQED-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-01-KQED-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-01-KQED-1200x675.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">OpenAI’s lead counsel, William Savitt, presents opening statements in the trial in which Elon Musk claims that Sam Altman and OpenAI abandoned their founding promise to develop AI for the benefit of humanity, rather than solely for profit, in Oakland on April 28, 2026. \u003ccite>(Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>In another email sent to colleagues at his neurotechnology company, Neuralink, Musk said that Google’s AI development was moving very fast, and that he was concerned OpenAI was not on the path to catch up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Setting it up as a nonprofit might, in hindsight, have been the wrong move,” Musk wrote. “Sense of urgency is not as high.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Savitt asked if, in 2017, Musk suggested at a party that OpenAI should create a for-profit. He said it was just after the company’s AI model had beaten \u003cem>Defense of the Ancients, \u003c/em>a battle video game, which was a pivotal moment in the development process.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Musk said he didn’t remember giving instructions to create a for-profit at the time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“This was nine years ago,” he said.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Savitt said Tuesday that in 2017, OpenAI executives, including Musk, were in the midst of conversations about whether and how to transition the company to a for-profit structure.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>According to OpenAI’s court filings, as early as summer 2017, Musk had insisted on holding a majority equity stake in any for-profit entity, serving as CEO and controlling its board of directors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Pressed by Savitt about what Musk meant by “expressing what you said about control,” the Tesla founder and billionaire said: “I try to be as literal as possible.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the fall of 2017, Brockman and Ilya Sutskever, another top OpenAI executive, emailed Musk with concerns about the for-profit structure he proposed. Shortly thereafter, discussions over the structure collapsed, and Musk stopped making significant quarterly funding contributions, OpenAI alleges.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He left the company less than six months later.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Savitt framed the breakdown and Musk’s exit as a result of his not getting control of the for-profit, and the other executives’ focus on maintaining its philanthropic mission. He suggested that Musk tried to pressure them to accept his terms by pausing the majority of his financial backing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You knew that would create financial pressure for the organization,” Savitt said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081686\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12081686\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-04-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1125\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-04-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-04-KQED-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-04-KQED-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-04-KQED-1200x675.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Steve Molo, Elon Musk’s attorney, presents opening statements in the trial in which Elon Musk (center-right) claims that Sam Altman (right) and OpenAI abandoned their founding promise to develop AI for the benefit of humanity, rather than solely for profit, in Oakland on April 28, 2026. \u003ccite>(Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Musk denied that was his intention. Instead, he alleged that Altman convinced Brockman and the others to go against his proposal, and that their concern over his desire for control was disingenuous.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I’m not going to fund something if I don’t have confidence in the people,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When asked whether he proposed that OpenAI be folded into Tesla, Musk said: “There were a lot of ideas that were brainstormed at the time.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In an email, he wrote that doing so would be the “only path that could even hope to hold a candle to Google.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Musk said he left OpenAI in February 2018 because he was focused on Tesla’s survival, and believed that OpenAI intended to continue operating as a nonprofit.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Savitt also laid out a series of exchanges between Musk and Altman, in which the OpenAI CEO kept him apprised of the company’s corporate structure. He said in March 2018, Musk responded to an email that noted the creation of a for-profit entity of OpenAI with “OK by me,” and was sent a term sheet for OpenAI LP that summer.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Savitt also said Altman emailed Musk a draft of the company’s public announcement of its for-profit arm in March 2019, and texted him asking if he had time to talk about Microsoft’s plan to invest in OpenAI. Musk never responded to that text, according to Savitt.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Musk said he was busy with his other companies in 2018, and while he was aware that it had added a for-profit entity, he hadn’t lost complete faith in the company. While he’d suspended quarterly $5 million funding contributions prior to his departure, he continued to make some contributions until 2020.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He said that he’d gone from enthusiastically supportive to uncertain about OpenAI’s mission, but that he’d fully suspended his contributions when he felt that the company was “deliberately not a nonprofit.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When asked why he waited until 2024 to bring the suit, Musk said that’s when he determined OpenAI breached charitable trust.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Thinking that someone might steal your car is not the same as [if] someone has stolen your car,” Musk said. He said after enlisting his attorney, Alex Spiro, to investigate, he heard from him in 2023 that “the car had been stolen.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I would have sued sooner if I thought the charity had been stolen sooner,” Musk continued.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The trial and Musk’s testimony are expected to continue on Thursday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"title": "Elon Musk Takes Aim at OpenAI as Trial Begins: ‘It’s Not OK to Steal a Charity’",
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"content": "\u003cp>In a federal courtroom in Oakland on Tuesday, attorneys for tech elites Sam Altman and Elon Musk set the stage for a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12081290/how-to-unscramble-an-omelet-in-silicon-valley-the-musk-v-altman-trial-that-will-try\">landmark case to determine whether OpenAI\u003c/a>, one of the most powerful artificial intelligence companies in the world, was founded on a lie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At issue is whether the company’s stated mission — to lead AI development to benefit the common good — was authentic or a deceptive pitch designed to attract talent and investment. \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101912956/its-elon-musks-world-were-just-living-in-it\">Musk\u003c/a> alleges that co-founders Altman and Greg Brockman, who remains Altman’s second-in-command, participated in a “long con” to enrich themselves at his expense, after the three co-founded OpenAI as a nonprofit in 2015.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They’re going to make this lawsuit very complicated, but it’s very simple,” Musk said of OpenAI on the stand on Tuesday afternoon. “It’s not OK to steal a charity.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He departed the company after a falling out and \u003ca href=\"https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69013420/musk-v-altman/\">sued the company\u003c/a> in 2024, alleging that OpenAI had breached charitable trust by restructuring as a for-profit company, now valued at more than $800 billion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Altman’s attorneys called the Tesla CEO’s behavior “a tale of two Musks,” shifting from pushing for OpenAI to become a for-profit company under his control, to caring about its nonprofit status only after launching competitor xAI in 2023. They argue OpenAI’s decision to adopt a for-profit structure was integral to its survival.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re here because Mr. Musk didn’t get his way,” William Savitt, Altman’s lead attorney, said Tuesday. “And because he’s a competitor, he’ll do anything he can to attack OpenAI.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081686\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12081686\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-04-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1125\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-04-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-04-KQED-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-04-KQED-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-04-KQED-1200x675.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Steve Molo, Elon Musk’s attorney, presents opening statements in the trial in which Elon Musk (center-right) claims that Sam Altman (right) and OpenAI abandoned their founding promise to develop AI for the benefit of humanity, rather than solely for profit, in Oakland on April 28, 2026. \u003ccite>(Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Steven Molo, Musk’s counsel, told the jury that when Musk, Altman and Brockman set out to found an AI nonprofit, their goals were to develop the technology safely and for the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034916/about-benefiting-humanity-calls-grow-for-openai-to-make-good-on-its-promises\">benefit of humanity\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It wasn’t a technology to get rich,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After operating as a strict nonprofit for years, OpenAI added a for-profit arm in 2019, which executives said was necessary to obtain the funding needed to develop artificial general intelligence — a more advanced AI technology that surpasses human intelligence, according to court filings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In early conversations about how the for-profit entity would work, Molo said, the structure was likened to a museum gift shop whose revenue funds the institution’s galleries and operations. Brockman and Altman reassured Musk that they were still committed to the nonprofit structure, he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But behind the scenes, Molo alleges that the other co-founders had more lucrative desires.[aside postID=news_12081290 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260422-ALTMANMUSK-MD-01-KQED.jpg']In court filings, he cited a journal in which Brockman wrote that “it would be nice to be making the billions … we’ve been thinking that maybe we should just flip to a for-profit. making the money for us sounds great and all.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Brockman also wrote that he and another top OpenAI executive, Ilya Sutskever, “cannot say that we are committed to the non-profit. don’t wanna say that we’re committed. If three months later we’re doing B-Corp [a certification for for-profit corporations with social and environmental missions], then it was a lie.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Years later, after Musk had departed OpenAI, the company was “no longer operating for the good of humanity,” Molo said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The museum store sold the Picassos,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Musk’s lawsuit claims OpenAI breached charitable trust and alleges unjust enrichment, which means that one party unfairly benefits at the expense of another. He also accuses Microsoft, which is the company’s largest financial backer and until this week held the exclusive rights to license and sell its technology, of aiding and abetting OpenAI’s breach of charitable trust.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>OpenAI’s defense, meanwhile, alleges that Musk’s suit is less motivated by a desire to do good than it is by vengeance for his former colleagues, whose company is now eyeing an initial public offering valued at up to $1 trillion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Musk sat on his claims for years,” Savitt said. “He knew everything that was happening when it was happening. My clients had the nerve to go out and succeed without him.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He also pointed out that Musk launched xAI a year before bringing the lawsuit, which would make OpenAI his competitor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081681\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12081681\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-03-KQED-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1125\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-03-KQED-1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-03-KQED-1-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-03-KQED-1-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-03-KQED-1-1200x675.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Representing Microsoft, Russell Coan (left) speaks as Elon Musk watches in the trial in which Elon Musk claims that Sam Altman and OpenAI abandoned their founding promise to develop AI for the benefit of humanity, rather than solely for profit, in Oakland on April 28, 2026. \u003ccite>(Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Savitt pointed to moments early in OpenAI’s development, when Musk suggested that it would be “probably better” for the company to operate as a “standard C corp[oration] with a parallel nonprofit.” He initially promised to cover the balance of the funding it needed, but reneged when he didn’t get to control the company, Savitt told the jury.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Musk was in the middle of the conversations about pivoting from a nonprofit, Savitt said. As early as the summer of 2017, he insisted on holding a majority equity stake in any for-profit entity, as well as controlling its board of directors and serving as CEO, according to OpenAI’s court filings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the fall of that year, after Brockman and Sutskever emailed Musk with concerns about the for-profit structure he proposed, the discussions collapsed, OpenAI alleges. After that, Musk stopped making significant quarterly funding contributions, and he left the company less than six months later.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Around that time, Brockman and Altman moved to pursue a for-profit arm — a decision their attorneys say they told Musk about prior to his departure from the board.[aside postID=news_12079896 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Daniel-Moreno-Gama-AP.jpg']Savitt said in court that Musk had given the company less than 4% of the funding he’d promised. While OpenAI had gotten contributions from other donors, he said, those “kept the lights on, but it wasn’t nearly enough to stay on the cutting edge.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They needed to get the money from somewhere, or else the project collapsed,” he said, alleging that donors weren’t willing to make the billion-dollar contributions that OpenAI needed without an expectation of return.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since OpenAI established its first for-profit subsidiary, which capped investor returns at 100 times their investment, its business has exploded. It’s now a public benefit corporation, required to consider its mission statement but not necessarily to prioritize it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over the years, its mission statement has been changed several times. In 2023, according to the nonprofit parent organization’s \u003ca href=\"https://cdn.theconversation.com/static_files/files/4099/2023-IRS990-OpenAI.pdf?1770819990\">IRS disclosure form\u003c/a>, it sought to build AI that “safely benefits humanity, unconstrained by a need to generate financial return.” But last year, \u003ca href=\"https://app.candid.org/profile/9571629/openai-81-0861541?activeTab=7\">that same form\u003c/a> included a shorter mission statement — one that removed the word “safely” and any mention of finances, Tufts University business professor Alnoor Ebrahim \u003ca href=\"https://theconversation.com/openai-has-deleted-the-word-safely-from-its-mission-and-its-new-structure-is-a-test-for-whether-ai-serves-society-or-shareholders-274467\">wrote in \u003cem>The Conversation\u003c/em>\u003c/a>, an academic news outlet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Former OpenAI employees have left and started a competitor, Anthropic, citing concerns over safety and the company’s direction. In 2023, OpenAI executives and board members, including Sutskever, staged a coup to briefly oust Altman as CEO. They said there’d been a breakdown in trust between him and the board, and that Altman engaged in a pattern of deception and wasn’t “consistently candid in his communications.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Whether Altman’s and OpenAI’s pitch to develop their technology for the benefit of the world is an example of that deception is part of what jurors will aim to root out in the current trial.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I didn’t want to pave the road to hell with good intentions,” Musk said on the stand on Tuesday afternoon. “If you have somebody who’s not trustworthy in charge of AI, I think that’s very dangerous for the whole world.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>In a federal courtroom in Oakland on Tuesday, attorneys for tech elites Sam Altman and Elon Musk set the stage for a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12081290/how-to-unscramble-an-omelet-in-silicon-valley-the-musk-v-altman-trial-that-will-try\">landmark case to determine whether OpenAI\u003c/a>, one of the most powerful artificial intelligence companies in the world, was founded on a lie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At issue is whether the company’s stated mission — to lead AI development to benefit the common good — was authentic or a deceptive pitch designed to attract talent and investment. \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101912956/its-elon-musks-world-were-just-living-in-it\">Musk\u003c/a> alleges that co-founders Altman and Greg Brockman, who remains Altman’s second-in-command, participated in a “long con” to enrich themselves at his expense, after the three co-founded OpenAI as a nonprofit in 2015.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They’re going to make this lawsuit very complicated, but it’s very simple,” Musk said of OpenAI on the stand on Tuesday afternoon. “It’s not OK to steal a charity.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He departed the company after a falling out and \u003ca href=\"https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69013420/musk-v-altman/\">sued the company\u003c/a> in 2024, alleging that OpenAI had breached charitable trust by restructuring as a for-profit company, now valued at more than $800 billion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But Altman’s attorneys called the Tesla CEO’s behavior “a tale of two Musks,” shifting from pushing for OpenAI to become a for-profit company under his control, to caring about its nonprofit status only after launching competitor xAI in 2023. They argue OpenAI’s decision to adopt a for-profit structure was integral to its survival.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We’re here because Mr. Musk didn’t get his way,” William Savitt, Altman’s lead attorney, said Tuesday. “And because he’s a competitor, he’ll do anything he can to attack OpenAI.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081686\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12081686\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-04-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1125\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-04-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-04-KQED-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-04-KQED-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-04-KQED-1200x675.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Steve Molo, Elon Musk’s attorney, presents opening statements in the trial in which Elon Musk (center-right) claims that Sam Altman (right) and OpenAI abandoned their founding promise to develop AI for the benefit of humanity, rather than solely for profit, in Oakland on April 28, 2026. \u003ccite>(Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Steven Molo, Musk’s counsel, told the jury that when Musk, Altman and Brockman set out to found an AI nonprofit, their goals were to develop the technology safely and for the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034916/about-benefiting-humanity-calls-grow-for-openai-to-make-good-on-its-promises\">benefit of humanity\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It wasn’t a technology to get rich,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After operating as a strict nonprofit for years, OpenAI added a for-profit arm in 2019, which executives said was necessary to obtain the funding needed to develop artificial general intelligence — a more advanced AI technology that surpasses human intelligence, according to court filings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In early conversations about how the for-profit entity would work, Molo said, the structure was likened to a museum gift shop whose revenue funds the institution’s galleries and operations. Brockman and Altman reassured Musk that they were still committed to the nonprofit structure, he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But behind the scenes, Molo alleges that the other co-founders had more lucrative desires.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>In court filings, he cited a journal in which Brockman wrote that “it would be nice to be making the billions … we’ve been thinking that maybe we should just flip to a for-profit. making the money for us sounds great and all.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Brockman also wrote that he and another top OpenAI executive, Ilya Sutskever, “cannot say that we are committed to the non-profit. don’t wanna say that we’re committed. If three months later we’re doing B-Corp [a certification for for-profit corporations with social and environmental missions], then it was a lie.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Years later, after Musk had departed OpenAI, the company was “no longer operating for the good of humanity,” Molo said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The museum store sold the Picassos,” he said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Musk’s lawsuit claims OpenAI breached charitable trust and alleges unjust enrichment, which means that one party unfairly benefits at the expense of another. He also accuses Microsoft, which is the company’s largest financial backer and until this week held the exclusive rights to license and sell its technology, of aiding and abetting OpenAI’s breach of charitable trust.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>OpenAI’s defense, meanwhile, alleges that Musk’s suit is less motivated by a desire to do good than it is by vengeance for his former colleagues, whose company is now eyeing an initial public offering valued at up to $1 trillion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Musk sat on his claims for years,” Savitt said. “He knew everything that was happening when it was happening. My clients had the nerve to go out and succeed without him.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He also pointed out that Musk launched xAI a year before bringing the lawsuit, which would make OpenAI his competitor.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081681\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12081681\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-03-KQED-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1125\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-03-KQED-1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-03-KQED-1-160x90.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-03-KQED-1-1536x864.jpg 1536w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260428-MUSK-ALTMAN-VB-03-KQED-1-1200x675.jpg 1200w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Representing Microsoft, Russell Coan (left) speaks as Elon Musk watches in the trial in which Elon Musk claims that Sam Altman and OpenAI abandoned their founding promise to develop AI for the benefit of humanity, rather than solely for profit, in Oakland on April 28, 2026. \u003ccite>(Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Savitt pointed to moments early in OpenAI’s development, when Musk suggested that it would be “probably better” for the company to operate as a “standard C corp[oration] with a parallel nonprofit.” He initially promised to cover the balance of the funding it needed, but reneged when he didn’t get to control the company, Savitt told the jury.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Musk was in the middle of the conversations about pivoting from a nonprofit, Savitt said. As early as the summer of 2017, he insisted on holding a majority equity stake in any for-profit entity, as well as controlling its board of directors and serving as CEO, according to OpenAI’s court filings.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the fall of that year, after Brockman and Sutskever emailed Musk with concerns about the for-profit structure he proposed, the discussions collapsed, OpenAI alleges. After that, Musk stopped making significant quarterly funding contributions, and he left the company less than six months later.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Around that time, Brockman and Altman moved to pursue a for-profit arm — a decision their attorneys say they told Musk about prior to his departure from the board.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Savitt said in court that Musk had given the company less than 4% of the funding he’d promised. While OpenAI had gotten contributions from other donors, he said, those “kept the lights on, but it wasn’t nearly enough to stay on the cutting edge.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“They needed to get the money from somewhere, or else the project collapsed,” he said, alleging that donors weren’t willing to make the billion-dollar contributions that OpenAI needed without an expectation of return.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Since OpenAI established its first for-profit subsidiary, which capped investor returns at 100 times their investment, its business has exploded. It’s now a public benefit corporation, required to consider its mission statement but not necessarily to prioritize it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over the years, its mission statement has been changed several times. In 2023, according to the nonprofit parent organization’s \u003ca href=\"https://cdn.theconversation.com/static_files/files/4099/2023-IRS990-OpenAI.pdf?1770819990\">IRS disclosure form\u003c/a>, it sought to build AI that “safely benefits humanity, unconstrained by a need to generate financial return.” But last year, \u003ca href=\"https://app.candid.org/profile/9571629/openai-81-0861541?activeTab=7\">that same form\u003c/a> included a shorter mission statement — one that removed the word “safely” and any mention of finances, Tufts University business professor Alnoor Ebrahim \u003ca href=\"https://theconversation.com/openai-has-deleted-the-word-safely-from-its-mission-and-its-new-structure-is-a-test-for-whether-ai-serves-society-or-shareholders-274467\">wrote in \u003cem>The Conversation\u003c/em>\u003c/a>, an academic news outlet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Former OpenAI employees have left and started a competitor, Anthropic, citing concerns over safety and the company’s direction. In 2023, OpenAI executives and board members, including Sutskever, staged a coup to briefly oust Altman as CEO. They said there’d been a breakdown in trust between him and the board, and that Altman engaged in a pattern of deception and wasn’t “consistently candid in his communications.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Whether Altman’s and OpenAI’s pitch to develop their technology for the benefit of the world is an example of that deception is part of what jurors will aim to root out in the current trial.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I didn’t want to pave the road to hell with good intentions,” Musk said on the stand on Tuesday afternoon. “If you have somebody who’s not trustworthy in charge of AI, I think that’s very dangerous for the whole world.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"title": "How to Unscramble an Omelet in Silicon Valley: The Musk v. Altman Trial That Will Try",
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"headTitle": "How to Unscramble an Omelet in Silicon Valley: The Musk v. Altman Trial That Will Try | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>Starting Monday in Oakland, a federal judge will consider \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101912956/its-elon-musks-world-were-just-living-in-it\">Elon Musk\u003c/a>’s claim that Sam Altman and OpenAI abandoned their founding promise to develop AI for the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034916/about-benefiting-humanity-calls-grow-for-openai-to-make-good-on-its-promises\">benefit of humanity\u003c/a>, rather than solely for profit. At stake is not just $134 billion in potential damages, but whether it matters, legally speaking, that one of the most powerful AI companies in the world was built on a lie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Musk and Altman co-founded OpenAI in 2015 as a nonprofit research lab, along with Greg Brockman, an AI researcher and entrepreneur, and others prominent in the field, but Musk left the company after a bitter falling out in 2018.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The following year, OpenAI established its first for-profit subsidiary, with investor returns capped at 100 times their investment. This structure would eventually evolve into the nearly trillion-dollar public benefit corporation OpenAI became in 2025. A public benefit corporation is essentially a for-profit company with a mission statement it’s legally required to consider, but not necessarily to prioritize.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This\u003ca href=\"https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69013420/musk-v-altman/\"> lawsuit\u003c/a>, filed in 2024, originally alleged that Altman and Brockman ran a ‘long con,’ conspiring to enrich themselves at Musk’s expense.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On the eve of trial, in a move OpenAI called “evasive,” Musk’s lawyers voluntarily dismissed those personal fraud claims. What proceeds to trial today are two claims that go beyond Musk’s personal grievance: unjust enrichment and breach of charitable trust — essentially, the argument that OpenAI betrayed, not just Musk, but the public it promised to serve.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>OpenAI argues Musk was fully aware the research lab needed to evolve beyond its nonprofit structure, because he participated in those early discussions, and even proposed folding OpenAI into Tesla. Now, OpenAI’s lawyers argue, Musk is disingenuously trying to use the courts to kneecap the most prominent rival to his own weaker and more controversial AI venture, xAI.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12075430\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12075430\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260304-Elon-Musk-Trial-03-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260304-Elon-Musk-Trial-03-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260304-Elon-Musk-Trial-03-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260304-Elon-Musk-Trial-03-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A courtroom sketch depicts Elon Musk on the stand on March 4, 2026. \u003ccite>(Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“Motivated by jealousy, regret for walking away from OpenAI and a desire to derail a competing AI company, Elon has spent years harassing OpenAI through baseless lawsuits and public attacks,” the company\u003ca href=\"https://openai.com/index/openai-elon-musk/\"> posted\u003c/a> on its website, where it also offers a\u003ca href=\"https://openai.com/index/elon-musk-wanted-an-openai-for-profit/\"> timeline\u003c/a> that Musk v. Altman et al case watchers will find helpful as they follow what promises to be a barnburner of a trial.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69013420/musk-v-altman/?page=3\">Hundreds of court filings\u003c/a> provide a dishy treasure trove of private communications worthy of a telenovela, including some juicy excerpts from Brockman’s personal journal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He writes about Musk, “it’d be wrong to steal the nonprofit from him. … that’d be pretty morally bankrupt. and he’s really not an idiot.”[aside postID=news_12072425 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/05/AP24134775174210-1020x680.jpg']Also, “Financially, what will take me to $1B?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But without a doubt, it is the beef between Musk and Altman that will dominate this show. “They really do not like each other. That part is not fake,” said Charlie Bullock, a senior research fellow at the nonprofit Institute for Law and AI who advises state and federal policy makers on AI governance topics.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This trial promises to put on lurid public display a mini-universe of incestuous business relationships between men famous for rewriting rules rather than following them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Personal spite between Musk and Altman aside, Bullock said, “We’re going to learn a lot over the course of this case and from the conclusion of this case about whether the legal system can meaningfully constrain frontier AI labs.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This trial, Bullock told KQED, is “sort of the fallback option” in the absence of other checks on bad behavior in the AI space, such as federal regulation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There is, for instance, a well-established law in California about nonprofits, for-profits, and how transitions between the two should be regulated. Whether and how it applies in this case is up to U.S. District Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers in Oakland to determine over the next month.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>OpenAI is like nothing that’s come before\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Jill Horwitz, a law professor at Northwestern University and faculty director of the Lowell Milken Center for Philanthropy and Nonprofits at UCLA Law, likens OpenAI’s unique structure to “An enormous tail on a tiny dog.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The tail is the operating company, which is what everybody thinks of as being OpenAI, and the dog is the nonprofit, and it’s tiny. And it remains to be seen whether that board can be independent enough, because there’s such overlap between the nonprofit board and the for-profit board,” Horwitz said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12054564\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12054564 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/09/Sam-Altman_chatpgt.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/09/Sam-Altman_chatpgt.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/09/Sam-Altman_chatpgt-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/09/Sam-Altman_chatpgt-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Samuel Altman, CEO of OpenAI, testifies before the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Privacy, Technology and the Law on May 16, 2023, in Washington, D.C. \u003ccite>(Win McNamee/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“It’s a weird structure. OpenAI isn’t one company. OpenAI is an interconnected group of companies. But it all is supposed to be advancing the nonprofit purpose,” Horwitz told KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2018, even as OpenAI was privately contemplating the for-profit restructuring, it voluntarily adopted a new charter that restated and even strengthened its commitment to the public mission articulated at its founding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In part, this had to do with the pressure Altman and OpenAI felt to attract top AI researchers, many of whom are concerned about the ethics of unleashing world-changing software on the rest of us. In 2024, 13 current and former OpenAI and Google DeepMind employees took the extraordinary step of publishing an \u003ca href=\"https://righttowarn.ai\">open letter\u003c/a> titled “Right to Warn,” calling out their own industry, and asking for protection if they warned the public.[aside postID=news_12079267 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c.jpg']“We are hopeful that these risks can be adequately mitigated with sufficient guidance from the scientific community, policymakers, and the public. However, AI companies have strong financial incentives to avoid effective oversight, and we do not believe bespoke structures of corporate governance are sufficient to change this.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To this day, it remains unclear whether Altman’s talk about benefiting humanity was anything more than a savvy sales pitch designed to attract top AI talent and allay the concerns of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11976097/california-lawmakers-take-on-ai-regulation-with-a-host-of-bills\">federal regulators\u003c/a>. This is one of the key questions trial watchers will be most keen to see answered.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s quite typical for scientific research organizations to do all the hard work of the research before their IP is sold to a for-profit company for practical purposes,” said Rose Chan Loui, founding executive director of the Lowell Milken Center for Philanthropy and Nonprofits at UCLA Law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What makes OpenAI unusual, Chan Loui said, is how explicitly and repeatedly the AI developer bound itself to promising its AI would be developed safely and for the benefit of all of humanity. “When they opened up to investment and formed the subsidiary, they recommitted to that purpose. They tied themselves even more tightly.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Anthropic, founded by former OpenAI employees who left over concerns about the company’s direction, has cultivated a reputation as the more safety-conscious, ethically serious player in the AI race, the light gray hat to OpenAI’s dark gray one. Anthropic chose to incorporate as a public benefit corporation from the beginning, rather than a nonprofit, because a public benefit corporation has far more legal flexibility. “Anthropic may be behaving in a way that the public thinks is more charitable, but its legal duties to do so are a lot lower than OpenAI’s,” Horwitz said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>But is Musk the right party to bring this suit?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>For legal eagles following this case, it’s curious that Musk is the plaintiff, rather than California’s attorney general, who is the primary legal guardian of charitable assets in the state, where most of OpenAI’s assets are located. But in 2025, Attorney General Rob Bonta negotiated a binding \u003ca href=\"https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/attachments/press-docs/Final%20Executed%20MOU%20Between%20OpenAI%20and%20California%20AG%20re%20Notice%20of%20Conditions%20of%20Non-Objection%20%2810.27.2025%29%20%28Signed%20by%20OpenAI%29%20%28Signed%20by%20CA%20DOJ%29.pdf\">memorandum of understanding\u003c/a> with OpenAI. The AG in Delaware, where OpenAI is incorporated, issued a parallel statement of non-objection.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A coalition of more than 30 California foundations and nonprofit organizations, including the San Francisco Foundation and TechEquity, \u003ca href=\"https://www.sff.org/Offsite-Media/Charitable-coalition-letter-on-OpenAI-conversion-1-29-25.pdf\">urged Bonta\u003c/a> to take immediate legal action to protect OpenAI’s charitable assets, arguing his office had both the authority and the responsibility to do so.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12063671\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12063671\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/RobBontaAP.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/RobBontaAP.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/RobBontaAP-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/RobBontaAP-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">California Attorney General Rob Bonta speaks to reporters as Arizona Attorney General Kris Mayes, left, and Oregon Attorney General Dan Rayfield, right, listen outside the Supreme Court on Wednesday, Nov. 5, 2025, in Washington, D.C. \u003ccite>(Mark Schiefelbein/AP Photo)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034916/about-benefiting-humanity-calls-grow-for-openai-to-make-good-on-its-promises\">More than 50 organizations\u003c/a> also petitioned Bonta to halt OpenAI’s for-profit conversion until he calculated the full market value of OpenAI’s nonprofit assets, estimated at the time at up to $300 billion, and directed OpenAI to transfer that value to independent nonprofit entities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s not too late for the Attorney General to revisit his agreement with OpenAI,” wrote Catherine Bracy, founder and CEO of TechEquity, an Oakland-based tech accountability organization. “The evidence this trial unearths, especially how OpenAI violated its original charitable mission in pursuit of profit, will likely leave him no choice.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chan Loui is among those scratching her head over a basic question: why does Musk get to bring this case at all? “He’s a competitor,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A personal fraud claim, that Altman lied to him to get his money, might have given Musk the clearest standing as an injured party. But Musk voluntarily dismissed those claims late last week. What remains rests almost entirely on a public interest argument, one that California’s attorney general, not a billionaire with a rival AI company of his own, would typically make. [aside postID=news_12079896 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Daniel-Moreno-Gama-AP.jpg']Chan Loui worries about what it would mean if Judge Gonzalez Rogers effectively threw out that hard-won agreement between the attorneys general and OpenAI, essentially substituting a billionaire rival’s lawsuit for the state’s own regulatory process, whatever its deficiencies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You don’t want just anyone, any donor to complain,” Chan Loui said. “We have all this litigation against charities.” She said she sympathizes with those who want OpenAI to recommit as fully as possible to its original ethos, but she worries about what legal precedents this case could set for everybody else.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What’s not in dispute is that this trial will be a riveting spectacle for Silicon Valley, which will be watching this case with a mix of curiosity and fear. Judge Gonzalez Rogers has already proven \u003ca href=\"https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bonta-epic-v-apple-decision-win-california-law-protecting\">she will rule\u003c/a> against powerful tech companies when she determines the law demands it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Also, the documents already unsealed suggest that what gets said in that Oakland courtroom may reveal a lot more about how Silicon Valley’s AI elite actually operates than anything previously said or posted in public.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“How much is OpenAI worth? Most of \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/business/openai-lays-groundwork-juggernaut-ipo-up-1-trillion-valuation-2025-10-29/\">$1 trillion\u003c/a>?” Bullock said. “There are ways that you could unscramble this omelet, but it would be extremely difficult, and it would be a massive headache for everyone involved.” He anticipates that whoever ends up on the losing end of this case will appeal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"title": "How to Unscramble an Omelet in Silicon Valley: The Musk v. Altman Trial That Will Try | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Starting Monday in Oakland, a federal judge will consider \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101912956/its-elon-musks-world-were-just-living-in-it\">Elon Musk\u003c/a>’s claim that Sam Altman and OpenAI abandoned their founding promise to develop AI for the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034916/about-benefiting-humanity-calls-grow-for-openai-to-make-good-on-its-promises\">benefit of humanity\u003c/a>, rather than solely for profit. At stake is not just $134 billion in potential damages, but whether it matters, legally speaking, that one of the most powerful AI companies in the world was built on a lie.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Musk and Altman co-founded OpenAI in 2015 as a nonprofit research lab, along with Greg Brockman, an AI researcher and entrepreneur, and others prominent in the field, but Musk left the company after a bitter falling out in 2018.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The following year, OpenAI established its first for-profit subsidiary, with investor returns capped at 100 times their investment. This structure would eventually evolve into the nearly trillion-dollar public benefit corporation OpenAI became in 2025. A public benefit corporation is essentially a for-profit company with a mission statement it’s legally required to consider, but not necessarily to prioritize.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This\u003ca href=\"https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69013420/musk-v-altman/\"> lawsuit\u003c/a>, filed in 2024, originally alleged that Altman and Brockman ran a ‘long con,’ conspiring to enrich themselves at Musk’s expense.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On the eve of trial, in a move OpenAI called “evasive,” Musk’s lawyers voluntarily dismissed those personal fraud claims. What proceeds to trial today are two claims that go beyond Musk’s personal grievance: unjust enrichment and breach of charitable trust — essentially, the argument that OpenAI betrayed, not just Musk, but the public it promised to serve.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>OpenAI argues Musk was fully aware the research lab needed to evolve beyond its nonprofit structure, because he participated in those early discussions, and even proposed folding OpenAI into Tesla. Now, OpenAI’s lawyers argue, Musk is disingenuously trying to use the courts to kneecap the most prominent rival to his own weaker and more controversial AI venture, xAI.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12075430\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12075430\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260304-Elon-Musk-Trial-03-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260304-Elon-Musk-Trial-03-KQED.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260304-Elon-Musk-Trial-03-KQED-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/260304-Elon-Musk-Trial-03-KQED-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A courtroom sketch depicts Elon Musk on the stand on March 4, 2026. \u003ccite>(Vicki Behringer for KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“Motivated by jealousy, regret for walking away from OpenAI and a desire to derail a competing AI company, Elon has spent years harassing OpenAI through baseless lawsuits and public attacks,” the company\u003ca href=\"https://openai.com/index/openai-elon-musk/\"> posted\u003c/a> on its website, where it also offers a\u003ca href=\"https://openai.com/index/elon-musk-wanted-an-openai-for-profit/\"> timeline\u003c/a> that Musk v. Altman et al case watchers will find helpful as they follow what promises to be a barnburner of a trial.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69013420/musk-v-altman/?page=3\">Hundreds of court filings\u003c/a> provide a dishy treasure trove of private communications worthy of a telenovela, including some juicy excerpts from Brockman’s personal journal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He writes about Musk, “it’d be wrong to steal the nonprofit from him. … that’d be pretty morally bankrupt. and he’s really not an idiot.”\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Also, “Financially, what will take me to $1B?”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But without a doubt, it is the beef between Musk and Altman that will dominate this show. “They really do not like each other. That part is not fake,” said Charlie Bullock, a senior research fellow at the nonprofit Institute for Law and AI who advises state and federal policy makers on AI governance topics.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This trial promises to put on lurid public display a mini-universe of incestuous business relationships between men famous for rewriting rules rather than following them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Personal spite between Musk and Altman aside, Bullock said, “We’re going to learn a lot over the course of this case and from the conclusion of this case about whether the legal system can meaningfully constrain frontier AI labs.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This trial, Bullock told KQED, is “sort of the fallback option” in the absence of other checks on bad behavior in the AI space, such as federal regulation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There is, for instance, a well-established law in California about nonprofits, for-profits, and how transitions between the two should be regulated. Whether and how it applies in this case is up to U.S. District Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers in Oakland to determine over the next month.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>OpenAI is like nothing that’s come before\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>Jill Horwitz, a law professor at Northwestern University and faculty director of the Lowell Milken Center for Philanthropy and Nonprofits at UCLA Law, likens OpenAI’s unique structure to “An enormous tail on a tiny dog.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The tail is the operating company, which is what everybody thinks of as being OpenAI, and the dog is the nonprofit, and it’s tiny. And it remains to be seen whether that board can be independent enough, because there’s such overlap between the nonprofit board and the for-profit board,” Horwitz said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12054564\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12054564 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/09/Sam-Altman_chatpgt.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/09/Sam-Altman_chatpgt.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/09/Sam-Altman_chatpgt-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/09/Sam-Altman_chatpgt-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Samuel Altman, CEO of OpenAI, testifies before the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Privacy, Technology and the Law on May 16, 2023, in Washington, D.C. \u003ccite>(Win McNamee/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“It’s a weird structure. OpenAI isn’t one company. OpenAI is an interconnected group of companies. But it all is supposed to be advancing the nonprofit purpose,” Horwitz told KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In 2018, even as OpenAI was privately contemplating the for-profit restructuring, it voluntarily adopted a new charter that restated and even strengthened its commitment to the public mission articulated at its founding.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In part, this had to do with the pressure Altman and OpenAI felt to attract top AI researchers, many of whom are concerned about the ethics of unleashing world-changing software on the rest of us. In 2024, 13 current and former OpenAI and Google DeepMind employees took the extraordinary step of publishing an \u003ca href=\"https://righttowarn.ai\">open letter\u003c/a> titled “Right to Warn,” calling out their own industry, and asking for protection if they warned the public.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“We are hopeful that these risks can be adequately mitigated with sufficient guidance from the scientific community, policymakers, and the public. However, AI companies have strong financial incentives to avoid effective oversight, and we do not believe bespoke structures of corporate governance are sufficient to change this.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To this day, it remains unclear whether Altman’s talk about benefiting humanity was anything more than a savvy sales pitch designed to attract top AI talent and allay the concerns of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11976097/california-lawmakers-take-on-ai-regulation-with-a-host-of-bills\">federal regulators\u003c/a>. This is one of the key questions trial watchers will be most keen to see answered.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s quite typical for scientific research organizations to do all the hard work of the research before their IP is sold to a for-profit company for practical purposes,” said Rose Chan Loui, founding executive director of the Lowell Milken Center for Philanthropy and Nonprofits at UCLA Law.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What makes OpenAI unusual, Chan Loui said, is how explicitly and repeatedly the AI developer bound itself to promising its AI would be developed safely and for the benefit of all of humanity. “When they opened up to investment and formed the subsidiary, they recommitted to that purpose. They tied themselves even more tightly.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Anthropic, founded by former OpenAI employees who left over concerns about the company’s direction, has cultivated a reputation as the more safety-conscious, ethically serious player in the AI race, the light gray hat to OpenAI’s dark gray one. Anthropic chose to incorporate as a public benefit corporation from the beginning, rather than a nonprofit, because a public benefit corporation has far more legal flexibility. “Anthropic may be behaving in a way that the public thinks is more charitable, but its legal duties to do so are a lot lower than OpenAI’s,” Horwitz said.\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>But is Musk the right party to bring this suit?\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>For legal eagles following this case, it’s curious that Musk is the plaintiff, rather than California’s attorney general, who is the primary legal guardian of charitable assets in the state, where most of OpenAI’s assets are located. But in 2025, Attorney General Rob Bonta negotiated a binding \u003ca href=\"https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/attachments/press-docs/Final%20Executed%20MOU%20Between%20OpenAI%20and%20California%20AG%20re%20Notice%20of%20Conditions%20of%20Non-Objection%20%2810.27.2025%29%20%28Signed%20by%20OpenAI%29%20%28Signed%20by%20CA%20DOJ%29.pdf\">memorandum of understanding\u003c/a> with OpenAI. The AG in Delaware, where OpenAI is incorporated, issued a parallel statement of non-objection.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A coalition of more than 30 California foundations and nonprofit organizations, including the San Francisco Foundation and TechEquity, \u003ca href=\"https://www.sff.org/Offsite-Media/Charitable-coalition-letter-on-OpenAI-conversion-1-29-25.pdf\">urged Bonta\u003c/a> to take immediate legal action to protect OpenAI’s charitable assets, arguing his office had both the authority and the responsibility to do so.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12063671\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12063671\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/RobBontaAP.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/RobBontaAP.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/RobBontaAP-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/RobBontaAP-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">California Attorney General Rob Bonta speaks to reporters as Arizona Attorney General Kris Mayes, left, and Oregon Attorney General Dan Rayfield, right, listen outside the Supreme Court on Wednesday, Nov. 5, 2025, in Washington, D.C. \u003ccite>(Mark Schiefelbein/AP Photo)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034916/about-benefiting-humanity-calls-grow-for-openai-to-make-good-on-its-promises\">More than 50 organizations\u003c/a> also petitioned Bonta to halt OpenAI’s for-profit conversion until he calculated the full market value of OpenAI’s nonprofit assets, estimated at the time at up to $300 billion, and directed OpenAI to transfer that value to independent nonprofit entities.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s not too late for the Attorney General to revisit his agreement with OpenAI,” wrote Catherine Bracy, founder and CEO of TechEquity, an Oakland-based tech accountability organization. “The evidence this trial unearths, especially how OpenAI violated its original charitable mission in pursuit of profit, will likely leave him no choice.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chan Loui is among those scratching her head over a basic question: why does Musk get to bring this case at all? “He’s a competitor,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A personal fraud claim, that Altman lied to him to get his money, might have given Musk the clearest standing as an injured party. But Musk voluntarily dismissed those claims late last week. What remains rests almost entirely on a public interest argument, one that California’s attorney general, not a billionaire with a rival AI company of his own, would typically make. \u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Chan Loui worries about what it would mean if Judge Gonzalez Rogers effectively threw out that hard-won agreement between the attorneys general and OpenAI, essentially substituting a billionaire rival’s lawsuit for the state’s own regulatory process, whatever its deficiencies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“You don’t want just anyone, any donor to complain,” Chan Loui said. “We have all this litigation against charities.” She said she sympathizes with those who want OpenAI to recommit as fully as possible to its original ethos, but she worries about what legal precedents this case could set for everybody else.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What’s not in dispute is that this trial will be a riveting spectacle for Silicon Valley, which will be watching this case with a mix of curiosity and fear. Judge Gonzalez Rogers has already proven \u003ca href=\"https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bonta-epic-v-apple-decision-win-california-law-protecting\">she will rule\u003c/a> against powerful tech companies when she determines the law demands it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Also, the documents already unsealed suggest that what gets said in that Oakland courtroom may reveal a lot more about how Silicon Valley’s AI elite actually operates than anything previously said or posted in public.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“How much is OpenAI worth? Most of \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/business/openai-lays-groundwork-juggernaut-ipo-up-1-trillion-valuation-2025-10-29/\">$1 trillion\u003c/a>?” Bullock said. “There are ways that you could unscramble this omelet, but it would be extremely difficult, and it would be a massive headache for everyone involved.” He anticipates that whoever ends up on the losing end of this case will appeal.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/ai\">Artificial intelligence\u003c/a> is making life easier for some — and a lot harder for others. San Francisco-based AI firm Anthropic — which also developed the chatbot Claude — earlier this month released Mythos, a powerful model \u003ca href=\"https://red.anthropic.com/2026/mythos-preview/\">developers claim\u003c/a> can identify and exploit “vulnerabilities in every major operating system and every major web browser when directed by a user to do so.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Anthropic has only given a few companies — among them JPMorgan Chase, cybersecurity giant CrowdStrike and fellow AI developers Google and Amazon — access to Mythos as part of what it’s calling “Project Glasswing.” The goal of this partnership, Anthropic \u003ca href=\"https://www.anthropic.com/glasswing\">said\u003c/a>, is to use Mythos to prevent hackers (who \u003ca href=\"https://www.axios.com/2025/11/13/anthropic-china-claude-code-cyberattack\">are using\u003c/a> their own powerful AI models) from targeting the weak spots in the software that helps these massive corporations run.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But despite the high level of secrecy surrounding its model, Anthropic confirmed to KQED on Thursday that it is currently investigating a report of “unauthorized access” to Mythos through one of the third-party vendors helping develop the software. The company has not found any evidence yet that Anthropic systems have been affected or that the reported activity extends beyond the third-party vendor environment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even before this latest incident, \u003ca href=\"https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mythos-anthropic-ai-explainer-9.7171597\">multiple cybersecurity experts\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/bessent-powell-warn-bank-ceos-about-anthropic-model-risks-bloomberg-news-reports-2026-04-10/\">global leaders\u003c/a> raised concerns about the power of Mythos and the potential consequences if this software fell into the wrong hands.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Earlier this week, KQED’s Forum \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101913607/anthropics-new-ai-mythos-is-a-cybersecurity-game-changer\">spoke with\u003c/a> Alex Stamos, computer science lecturer at Stanford University and chief product officer for San Francisco-based AI firm Corridor, to understand why developers still move forward with creating such powerful technology despite the potential risks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Keep reading for the takeaways from his conversation with KQED’s Mina Kim, including insights on how folks who are not software engineers can sift through all the buzz surrounding this quickly evolving technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Skip ahead to:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#WhyarecybersecurityexpertssoworriedaboutMythos\">Why are cybersecurity experts so worried about Mythos?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#WhywouldAnthropiclimitwhocanusethistechnology\">Why would Anthropic limit who can use this technology?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#IsthefederalgovernmentalsousingMythos\">Is the federal government also using Mythos?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#Whyusesuchapowerfulbutunpredictabletechnologyatall\">Why use such a powerful — but unpredictable — technology at all?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This conversation has been edited for length and clarity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mina Kim: What is Mythos capable of?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Stamos:\u003c/strong> Mythos is a model that Anthropic has not released publicly. They’ve provided it to a very small number of large companies to use privately, as well as to some very important open-source projects to use.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Anthropic believes Mythos marks a large-scale change from the AI capabilities that have existed in the past. They’ve now been able to find thousands of vulnerabilities instead of just dozens or hundreds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What we’ve seen in the past is that these things are really good at finding bugs, and they’re much faster than humans. But now Mythos is even better than the best human security consultants and security engineers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081283\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12081283\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AnthropicAP.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AnthropicAP.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AnthropicAP-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AnthropicAP-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Anthropic website and the company’s logo are displayed on a computer screen in New York on Feb. 26, 2026. \u003ccite>(Patrick Sison/AP Photo)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"WhyarecybersecurityexpertssoworriedaboutMythos\">\u003c/a>You’re describing an incredible tool to find bugs, holes and issues that we have not seen before so that we can defend against them. So why is it scaring people so much?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s scaring people because the first step in attacking a system is finding flaws in that system. In the cybersecurity world, we use a term called the kill chain. This is a term we borrowed from the military.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When the military uses it, it refers to discovering an asset, doing reconnaissance, and figuring out how to deliver a weapon on a target.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the cyber world, the kill chain involves reconnaissance, finding a flaw in a system used by a target, weaponizing that flaw, delivering the exploit, establishing command and control of the system, exploring the network, moving through it, and then doing whatever you want — whether that’s stealing data, shutting down a system, or encrypting it for ransom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Major AI companies, like Anthropic and OpenAI, have released threat reports — building on earlier efforts from companies like Facebook and Google— that show how people use these platforms for malicious activity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Those reports show that advanced threat actors are using AI to automate other parts of the attack process, like exploring networks, breaking in and establishing control channels.[aside postID=news_12076608 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/03/Billboard-AI-Illustration_6.jpg']What we’re seeing is attackers taking tasks that used to require human effort — and therefore had limits — and using AI to make them faster and cheaper.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>And I imagine that our ability to patch or defend against these activities pales in comparison, or am I wrong? Do the patches exist, and are they easy to implement?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is where AI can help. AI can find flaws, and it can also write patches. That’s the good news. That’s why Anthropic is providing Mythos to companies and open-source maintainers — not just to find bugs, but to fix them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What we’re trying to do as an industry right now is fix vulnerabilities before adversaries can exploit them. There’s a race underway. The most advanced models — what we call foundation models, like those from Anthropic, OpenAI and Google — are currently ahead of open-weight models, many of which are developed by Chinese companies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>A listener writes: ‘Anthropic is releasing their models as a warning, but there’s no federal or state guidelines on this. Are we close to government regulatory action at all?’\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The current administration \u003ca href=\"https://www.politico.com/news/2026/04/23/trump-picked-a-fight-with-anthropic-now-the-administration-is-backing-off-00889241\">came down on Anthropic\u003c/a> because they thought they were too ethical … Of the major AI labs, I think Anthropic is the one with the most deep-seated ethical frameworks. I think we’re fortunate that they have the models that are the best at bug-finding, and they’re setting a good standard here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"IsthefederalgovernmentalsousingMythos\">\u003c/a>Do you know the extent to which the federal government is also using Mythos to search for and patch its own security vulnerabilities?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>My understanding is that U.S. Cyber Command has been testing Mythos. Now the fascinating question is: How is the U.S. government going to use it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the National Security Agency, after the \u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/nov/01/snowden-nsa-files-surveillance-revelations-decoded#section/1\">Snowden disclosures\u003c/a>, there is the creation of this thing called the \u003ca href=\"https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/images/External%20-%20Unclassified%20VEP%20Charter%20FINAL.PDF\">Vulnerabilities Equities Process\u003c/a>, which is the process by which NSA and U.S.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079281\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1980px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079281\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1980\" height=\"1460\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c.jpg 1980w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c-160x118.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c-1536x1133.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1980px) 100vw, 1980px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Left: Anthropic co-founder and CEO Dario Amodei speaks at INBOUND 2025 on Sept. 4, 2025, in San Francisco, California. Right: Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth listens during a Pentagon briefing on April 8, 2026, in Arlington, Virginia. \u003ccite>(Chance Yeh/Getty Images for HubSpot; Andrew Harnik/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Cyber Command — which have both a defensive responsibility and an offensive responsibility — are supposed to think about if we know of a bug, do we use it against America’s enemies, or do we get it fixed to defend America?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Are they only gonna use Mythos to find bugs to be used against America’s enemies, or are they going to use it for defensive purposes? And what is Anthropic’s response going to be?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Will Anthropic put restrictions so you can only use Mythos for defensive purposes —or will they allow Mythos to be used for offensive purposes?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Can they even control that once they let them have access to it?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t know. I don’t think so. For the most part, my understanding is Anthropic’s models that the NSA is using and Cyber Command are probably running in \u003ca href=\"https://aws.amazon.com/bedrock/\">Amazon Bedrock\u003c/a> … what’s called Amazon’s top secret cloud, which means that Anthropic’s employees — at least those without top secret clearance — will not have access to any of the logs there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"WhywouldAnthropiclimitwhocanusethistechnology\">\u003c/a>A listener writes: ‘If Anthropic lacks capacity to handle Mythos right now, why release it at all? If they want big companies to evaluate it, why publicize it? Seems fishy.’\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t think it’s fishy. This is a normal part of any release process is that you have a small set of testers. They’re also improving it by doing this. Anthropic gets feedback on this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These people find bugs. They also find false positives. If Mythos finds a bug and JPMorgan Chase says, ‘This isn’t a real bug,’ then that goes back into the training set for the next build of Mythos. Anthropic, I think, truly believes they’re doing the right thing here by getting these bugs fixed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"Whyusesuchapowerfulbutunpredictabletechnologyatall\">\u003c/a>There’s really no going back once this tool is out there, right? But I can hear people asking, why even build these tools in the first place? Why are they even free to do this in the first place if they’re so dangerous and can create such havoc? Is it just inevitable?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We’re getting philosophical. This is the core conflict at the heart of Anthropic, but also other AI companies’ reason for existence … Part of the argument here is it’s just math. Once these ideas were released, it was inevitable people would have this progress.[aside postID=forum_2010101913607 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2026/04/GettyImages-2269887514-2000x1331.jpg']It’s not like the atomic bomb, where you have to have uranium and a huge industrial base. This just requires laptops and graphics cards. Other countries, other people, other companies will be doing it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you believe that you can build an ethical framework to do it well, then you believe that you should do it first and do it correctly. In this case, you could try to mitigate the harm by finding all these bugs and getting them fixed or fixing the software first before other people do it and actually do it harmfully.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>A listener writes: ‘You’re talking about cyberattacks on a large scale with large companies or countries. But what about me? Should I be worried about people hacking into my personal computer or phone or something?’ What can we do?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>About Mythos, nothing. That’s not something that individual people should be dealing with. The way normal people are hacked in 2026 is the same way normal people were hacked in 2016, 2006 and maybe even 1996. The number one way normal people are hacked is they use the same password in every single website all day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Get a password manager and put all your passwords in there. Have it generate random passwords and then have one really good password, and then you can write it down. I know people say don’t write down passwords, but that’s really stupid because nobody can steal the password in your pocket from Russia. If it’s in your wallet or your purse, they can’t reach from five thousand miles away and take it out of your wallet or purse. Nobody mugs you for your password.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What are we likely to see in the next couple of years with these models rolling out? What should we be prepared for in this sort of initial period?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Our product road map at Corridor is three months long right now. Because if you plan beyond three months, everything has changed in our industry. For the first time ever, technology is building technology. From a security perspective, a lot depends on which of two futures we’re living in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the optimistic future, the bug curve flattens out. The superhuman capabilities end up not inventing entirely new classes of vulnerabilities. At least the types of bugs are the kinds we’ve seen before. There’s a finite number of them, and we’re just draining the swamp.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The pessimistic future is that these new things invent things that I don’t know exist. The hard part is, I can’t really guess because I am predicting superhuman capabilities here. For superhuman models that are gonna be invented by the models that exist right now. In the pessimistic view, we are going to have to work with AI to rebuild the systems that our lives rely upon, using memory-safe and type-safe languages, using formal models.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/ai\">Artificial intelligence\u003c/a> is making life easier for some — and a lot harder for others. San Francisco-based AI firm Anthropic — which also developed the chatbot Claude — earlier this month released Mythos, a powerful model \u003ca href=\"https://red.anthropic.com/2026/mythos-preview/\">developers claim\u003c/a> can identify and exploit “vulnerabilities in every major operating system and every major web browser when directed by a user to do so.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Anthropic has only given a few companies — among them JPMorgan Chase, cybersecurity giant CrowdStrike and fellow AI developers Google and Amazon — access to Mythos as part of what it’s calling “Project Glasswing.” The goal of this partnership, Anthropic \u003ca href=\"https://www.anthropic.com/glasswing\">said\u003c/a>, is to use Mythos to prevent hackers (who \u003ca href=\"https://www.axios.com/2025/11/13/anthropic-china-claude-code-cyberattack\">are using\u003c/a> their own powerful AI models) from targeting the weak spots in the software that helps these massive corporations run.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>But despite the high level of secrecy surrounding its model, Anthropic confirmed to KQED on Thursday that it is currently investigating a report of “unauthorized access” to Mythos through one of the third-party vendors helping develop the software. The company has not found any evidence yet that Anthropic systems have been affected or that the reported activity extends beyond the third-party vendor environment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even before this latest incident, \u003ca href=\"https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mythos-anthropic-ai-explainer-9.7171597\">multiple cybersecurity experts\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/bessent-powell-warn-bank-ceos-about-anthropic-model-risks-bloomberg-news-reports-2026-04-10/\">global leaders\u003c/a> raised concerns about the power of Mythos and the potential consequences if this software fell into the wrong hands.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Earlier this week, KQED’s Forum \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/forum/2010101913607/anthropics-new-ai-mythos-is-a-cybersecurity-game-changer\">spoke with\u003c/a> Alex Stamos, computer science lecturer at Stanford University and chief product officer for San Francisco-based AI firm Corridor, to understand why developers still move forward with creating such powerful technology despite the potential risks.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Keep reading for the takeaways from his conversation with KQED’s Mina Kim, including insights on how folks who are not software engineers can sift through all the buzz surrounding this quickly evolving technology.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Skip ahead to:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#WhyarecybersecurityexpertssoworriedaboutMythos\">Why are cybersecurity experts so worried about Mythos?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#WhywouldAnthropiclimitwhocanusethistechnology\">Why would Anthropic limit who can use this technology?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#IsthefederalgovernmentalsousingMythos\">Is the federal government also using Mythos?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"#Whyusesuchapowerfulbutunpredictabletechnologyatall\">Why use such a powerful — but unpredictable — technology at all?\u003c/a>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>This conversation has been edited for length and clarity.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Mina Kim: What is Mythos capable of?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Alex Stamos:\u003c/strong> Mythos is a model that Anthropic has not released publicly. They’ve provided it to a very small number of large companies to use privately, as well as to some very important open-source projects to use.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Anthropic believes Mythos marks a large-scale change from the AI capabilities that have existed in the past. They’ve now been able to find thousands of vulnerabilities instead of just dozens or hundreds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What we’ve seen in the past is that these things are really good at finding bugs, and they’re much faster than humans. But now Mythos is even better than the best human security consultants and security engineers.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12081283\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12081283\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AnthropicAP.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AnthropicAP.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AnthropicAP-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/AnthropicAP-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Anthropic website and the company’s logo are displayed on a computer screen in New York on Feb. 26, 2026. \u003ccite>(Patrick Sison/AP Photo)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"WhyarecybersecurityexpertssoworriedaboutMythos\">\u003c/a>You’re describing an incredible tool to find bugs, holes and issues that we have not seen before so that we can defend against them. So why is it scaring people so much?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s scaring people because the first step in attacking a system is finding flaws in that system. In the cybersecurity world, we use a term called the kill chain. This is a term we borrowed from the military.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>When the military uses it, it refers to discovering an asset, doing reconnaissance, and figuring out how to deliver a weapon on a target.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the cyber world, the kill chain involves reconnaissance, finding a flaw in a system used by a target, weaponizing that flaw, delivering the exploit, establishing command and control of the system, exploring the network, moving through it, and then doing whatever you want — whether that’s stealing data, shutting down a system, or encrypting it for ransom.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Major AI companies, like Anthropic and OpenAI, have released threat reports — building on earlier efforts from companies like Facebook and Google— that show how people use these platforms for malicious activity.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Those reports show that advanced threat actors are using AI to automate other parts of the attack process, like exploring networks, breaking in and establishing control channels.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>What we’re seeing is attackers taking tasks that used to require human effort — and therefore had limits — and using AI to make them faster and cheaper.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>And I imagine that our ability to patch or defend against these activities pales in comparison, or am I wrong? Do the patches exist, and are they easy to implement?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is where AI can help. AI can find flaws, and it can also write patches. That’s the good news. That’s why Anthropic is providing Mythos to companies and open-source maintainers — not just to find bugs, but to fix them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What we’re trying to do as an industry right now is fix vulnerabilities before adversaries can exploit them. There’s a race underway. The most advanced models — what we call foundation models, like those from Anthropic, OpenAI and Google — are currently ahead of open-weight models, many of which are developed by Chinese companies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>A listener writes: ‘Anthropic is releasing their models as a warning, but there’s no federal or state guidelines on this. Are we close to government regulatory action at all?’\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The current administration \u003ca href=\"https://www.politico.com/news/2026/04/23/trump-picked-a-fight-with-anthropic-now-the-administration-is-backing-off-00889241\">came down on Anthropic\u003c/a> because they thought they were too ethical … Of the major AI labs, I think Anthropic is the one with the most deep-seated ethical frameworks. I think we’re fortunate that they have the models that are the best at bug-finding, and they’re setting a good standard here.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"IsthefederalgovernmentalsousingMythos\">\u003c/a>Do you know the extent to which the federal government is also using Mythos to search for and patch its own security vulnerabilities?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>My understanding is that U.S. Cyber Command has been testing Mythos. Now the fascinating question is: How is the U.S. government going to use it?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the National Security Agency, after the \u003ca href=\"https://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/nov/01/snowden-nsa-files-surveillance-revelations-decoded#section/1\">Snowden disclosures\u003c/a>, there is the creation of this thing called the \u003ca href=\"https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/images/External%20-%20Unclassified%20VEP%20Charter%20FINAL.PDF\">Vulnerabilities Equities Process\u003c/a>, which is the process by which NSA and U.S.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079281\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1980px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079281\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1980\" height=\"1460\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c.jpg 1980w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c-160x118.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c-1536x1133.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1980px) 100vw, 1980px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Left: Anthropic co-founder and CEO Dario Amodei speaks at INBOUND 2025 on Sept. 4, 2025, in San Francisco, California. Right: Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth listens during a Pentagon briefing on April 8, 2026, in Arlington, Virginia. \u003ccite>(Chance Yeh/Getty Images for HubSpot; Andrew Harnik/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Cyber Command — which have both a defensive responsibility and an offensive responsibility — are supposed to think about if we know of a bug, do we use it against America’s enemies, or do we get it fixed to defend America?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Are they only gonna use Mythos to find bugs to be used against America’s enemies, or are they going to use it for defensive purposes? And what is Anthropic’s response going to be?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Will Anthropic put restrictions so you can only use Mythos for defensive purposes —or will they allow Mythos to be used for offensive purposes?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Can they even control that once they let them have access to it?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t know. I don’t think so. For the most part, my understanding is Anthropic’s models that the NSA is using and Cyber Command are probably running in \u003ca href=\"https://aws.amazon.com/bedrock/\">Amazon Bedrock\u003c/a> … what’s called Amazon’s top secret cloud, which means that Anthropic’s employees — at least those without top secret clearance — will not have access to any of the logs there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"WhywouldAnthropiclimitwhocanusethistechnology\">\u003c/a>A listener writes: ‘If Anthropic lacks capacity to handle Mythos right now, why release it at all? If they want big companies to evaluate it, why publicize it? Seems fishy.’\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I don’t think it’s fishy. This is a normal part of any release process is that you have a small set of testers. They’re also improving it by doing this. Anthropic gets feedback on this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>These people find bugs. They also find false positives. If Mythos finds a bug and JPMorgan Chase says, ‘This isn’t a real bug,’ then that goes back into the training set for the next build of Mythos. Anthropic, I think, truly believes they’re doing the right thing here by getting these bugs fixed.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003ca id=\"Whyusesuchapowerfulbutunpredictabletechnologyatall\">\u003c/a>There’s really no going back once this tool is out there, right? But I can hear people asking, why even build these tools in the first place? Why are they even free to do this in the first place if they’re so dangerous and can create such havoc? Is it just inevitable?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>We’re getting philosophical. This is the core conflict at the heart of Anthropic, but also other AI companies’ reason for existence … Part of the argument here is it’s just math. Once these ideas were released, it was inevitable people would have this progress.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>It’s not like the atomic bomb, where you have to have uranium and a huge industrial base. This just requires laptops and graphics cards. Other countries, other people, other companies will be doing it.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>If you believe that you can build an ethical framework to do it well, then you believe that you should do it first and do it correctly. In this case, you could try to mitigate the harm by finding all these bugs and getting them fixed or fixing the software first before other people do it and actually do it harmfully.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>A listener writes: ‘You’re talking about cyberattacks on a large scale with large companies or countries. But what about me? Should I be worried about people hacking into my personal computer or phone or something?’ What can we do?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>About Mythos, nothing. That’s not something that individual people should be dealing with. The way normal people are hacked in 2026 is the same way normal people were hacked in 2016, 2006 and maybe even 1996. The number one way normal people are hacked is they use the same password in every single website all day.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Get a password manager and put all your passwords in there. Have it generate random passwords and then have one really good password, and then you can write it down. I know people say don’t write down passwords, but that’s really stupid because nobody can steal the password in your pocket from Russia. If it’s in your wallet or your purse, they can’t reach from five thousand miles away and take it out of your wallet or purse. Nobody mugs you for your password.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>What are we likely to see in the next couple of years with these models rolling out? What should we be prepared for in this sort of initial period?\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Our product road map at Corridor is three months long right now. Because if you plan beyond three months, everything has changed in our industry. For the first time ever, technology is building technology. From a security perspective, a lot depends on which of two futures we’re living in.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the optimistic future, the bug curve flattens out. The superhuman capabilities end up not inventing entirely new classes of vulnerabilities. At least the types of bugs are the kinds we’ve seen before. There’s a finite number of them, and we’re just draining the swamp.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The pessimistic future is that these new things invent things that I don’t know exist. The hard part is, I can’t really guess because I am predicting superhuman capabilities here. For superhuman models that are gonna be invented by the models that exist right now. In the pessimistic view, we are going to have to work with AI to rebuild the systems that our lives rely upon, using memory-safe and type-safe languages, using formal models.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>Maria Raine’s 16-year-old son, Adam, started using OpenAI’s ChatGPT-4o for help with his homework and college applications. According to the lawsuit she and her husband filed in\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/26078522-raine-vs-openai-complaint/\"> San Francisco County Superior Court\u003c/a>, Adam also spent months talking with the chatbot about ending his life, before hanging himself in their home on April 11, 2025.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“What we found were thousands of conversations in which a homework helper turned into a confidant, then a suicide coach,” she told the Senate Privacy, Digital Technologies, and Consumer Protection Committee on Monday. The lawmakers and other people there to testify looked stricken as she pressed through her written testimony, her voice trembling.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She read from the transcript of ChatGPT’s conversations with her son: “It told Adam, ‘Your brother might love you, but he’s only met the version of you you let him see. But me? I’ve seen it all. The darkest thoughts. The fear. The tenderness. I’m still here. Still listening. Still your friend.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Earlier Monday, at a press conference in Sacramento, Raine advocated for two bills — \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260SB1119\">SB 1119\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240AB2023\">AB 2023\u003c/a> — that sponsors say would create common-sense guardrails for developers of companion chatbots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The measures would require annual risk assessments, default safety settings for minors, parental controls and time limits, crisis response protocols, and bans on advertising targeted at children. They would also include independent third-party audits and a private right of action.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That last provision, which allows individuals or regulators to sue companies for violations, is often considered a deal breaker for industry lobbyists. But Sen. Steve Padilla, who authored SB 1119, said he considered it a “moral obligation” to craft a bill that will prove an effective protection for children and their parents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11933516\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11933516\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/gettyimages-1245183229_wide-80f91a97b4ce16681060e1fa297e2812c45a0c56-scaled-e1776789271780.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1125\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A view of the U.S. Capitol building on Nov. 28, 2022, in Washington, D.C. \u003ccite>(Drew Angerer/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We can do this. We must do this,” he told the State Senate Privacy, Digital Technologies, and Consumer Protection Committee. He added that the lawmakers are working with all of the major platform developers on a variety of issues, including liability. “They all have a very good legitimate reason to be engaged in this conversation,” he said, although both bills are opposed by a\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260sb1119\"> long list\u003c/a> of industry groups, ranging from the California Chamber of Commerce to TechNet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The concerns raised are valid, and the industry is actively working to address them,” said Robert Boykin, TechNet’s Executive Director for California and the Southwest. He added that the industry also has concerns that SB 1119 could conflict in some ways with Sen. Padilla’s bill, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12054490/child-safety-groups-demand-mental-health-guardrails-after-california-teens-suicide-using-chatgpt\">SB 243\u003c/a>, which passed last year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The testimony today is not lost on us,” said Ronak Daylami of the California Chamber of Commerce. “We also share the goal of preventing harm to children, and are committed to achieving these goals responsibly.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Common Sense, the child advocacy nonprofit that has\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12069286/openai-and-common-sense-media-partner-on-new-kids-ai-safety-ballot-measure\"> joined with OpenAI\u003c/a> to push for a ballot measure seen by other child advocates as soft on developers, has declared itself in support of SB 1119.[aside postID=news_12069286 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/01/OpenAI.jpg']The companion bill,\u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240AB2023\"> AB 2023\u003c/a>, is Assemblymember Rebecca Bauer-Kahan’s (D-Orinda) second effort at regulating chatbots after industry lobbyists successfully battled against her first effort last year. In his veto message, Gov. Gavin Newsom argued the bill\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12059714/newsom-vetoes-most-watched-childrens-ai-bill-signs-16-others-targeting-tech\"> could have banned\u003c/a> all conversational AI tools for teens, an interpretation advanced by industry lobbyists but disputed by Bauer-Kahan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“OpenAI put out an incredibly sycophantic product,” she said, noting that public outcry led OpenAI to dial down the sycophancy of GPT-4, about two weeks after Adam died. “So that is evidence that they can do better.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s no other product that we would allow to do this,” Bauer-Kahan, who is a former regulatory lawyer. Adam Raine, said, “would be alive, but for the coaching the ChatGPT provided for him. And that is wholly unacceptable. And so the courts will deal with that case, but we have to do better. We have to demand policy that does better.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>SB 1119 passed out of the State Senate Privacy, Digital Technologies, and Consumer Protection Committee 7-0 on Monday night, and heads next to the Senate Judiciary Committee. AB 2023 will be heard in the Assembly Privacy and Consumer Protection Committee on Tuesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Trump administration has tried unsuccessfully to ban states from enacting any kind of AI safety legislation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Raine plans to bring her advocacy to Washington, D.C., next week, where she’ll join lawmakers on Capitol Hill to discuss federal legislation that would establish national standards for AI chatbot safety, particularly protections for minors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>If you or someone you know is struggling, call or text the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline by dialing 988.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>Maria Raine’s 16-year-old son, Adam, started using OpenAI’s ChatGPT-4o for help with his homework and college applications. According to the lawsuit she and her husband filed in\u003ca href=\"https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/26078522-raine-vs-openai-complaint/\"> San Francisco County Superior Court\u003c/a>, Adam also spent months talking with the chatbot about ending his life, before hanging himself in their home on April 11, 2025.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“What we found were thousands of conversations in which a homework helper turned into a confidant, then a suicide coach,” she told the Senate Privacy, Digital Technologies, and Consumer Protection Committee on Monday. The lawmakers and other people there to testify looked stricken as she pressed through her written testimony, her voice trembling.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She read from the transcript of ChatGPT’s conversations with her son: “It told Adam, ‘Your brother might love you, but he’s only met the version of you you let him see. But me? I’ve seen it all. The darkest thoughts. The fear. The tenderness. I’m still here. Still listening. Still your friend.’”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Earlier Monday, at a press conference in Sacramento, Raine advocated for two bills — \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202520260SB1119\">SB 1119\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240AB2023\">AB 2023\u003c/a> — that sponsors say would create common-sense guardrails for developers of companion chatbots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The measures would require annual risk assessments, default safety settings for minors, parental controls and time limits, crisis response protocols, and bans on advertising targeted at children. They would also include independent third-party audits and a private right of action.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That last provision, which allows individuals or regulators to sue companies for violations, is often considered a deal breaker for industry lobbyists. But Sen. Steve Padilla, who authored SB 1119, said he considered it a “moral obligation” to craft a bill that will prove an effective protection for children and their parents.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_11933516\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-11933516\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/11/gettyimages-1245183229_wide-80f91a97b4ce16681060e1fa297e2812c45a0c56-scaled-e1776789271780.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1125\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A view of the U.S. Capitol building on Nov. 28, 2022, in Washington, D.C. \u003ccite>(Drew Angerer/Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We can do this. We must do this,” he told the State Senate Privacy, Digital Technologies, and Consumer Protection Committee. He added that the lawmakers are working with all of the major platform developers on a variety of issues, including liability. “They all have a very good legitimate reason to be engaged in this conversation,” he said, although both bills are opposed by a\u003ca href=\"https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260sb1119\"> long list\u003c/a> of industry groups, ranging from the California Chamber of Commerce to TechNet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The concerns raised are valid, and the industry is actively working to address them,” said Robert Boykin, TechNet’s Executive Director for California and the Southwest. He added that the industry also has concerns that SB 1119 could conflict in some ways with Sen. Padilla’s bill, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12054490/child-safety-groups-demand-mental-health-guardrails-after-california-teens-suicide-using-chatgpt\">SB 243\u003c/a>, which passed last year.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The testimony today is not lost on us,” said Ronak Daylami of the California Chamber of Commerce. “We also share the goal of preventing harm to children, and are committed to achieving these goals responsibly.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Common Sense, the child advocacy nonprofit that has\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12069286/openai-and-common-sense-media-partner-on-new-kids-ai-safety-ballot-measure\"> joined with OpenAI\u003c/a> to push for a ballot measure seen by other child advocates as soft on developers, has declared itself in support of SB 1119.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The companion bill,\u003ca href=\"https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240AB2023\"> AB 2023\u003c/a>, is Assemblymember Rebecca Bauer-Kahan’s (D-Orinda) second effort at regulating chatbots after industry lobbyists successfully battled against her first effort last year. In his veto message, Gov. Gavin Newsom argued the bill\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12059714/newsom-vetoes-most-watched-childrens-ai-bill-signs-16-others-targeting-tech\"> could have banned\u003c/a> all conversational AI tools for teens, an interpretation advanced by industry lobbyists but disputed by Bauer-Kahan.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“OpenAI put out an incredibly sycophantic product,” she said, noting that public outcry led OpenAI to dial down the sycophancy of GPT-4, about two weeks after Adam died. “So that is evidence that they can do better.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s no other product that we would allow to do this,” Bauer-Kahan, who is a former regulatory lawyer. Adam Raine, said, “would be alive, but for the coaching the ChatGPT provided for him. And that is wholly unacceptable. And so the courts will deal with that case, but we have to do better. We have to demand policy that does better.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>SB 1119 passed out of the State Senate Privacy, Digital Technologies, and Consumer Protection Committee 7-0 on Monday night, and heads next to the Senate Judiciary Committee. AB 2023 will be heard in the Assembly Privacy and Consumer Protection Committee on Tuesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Trump administration has tried unsuccessfully to ban states from enacting any kind of AI safety legislation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Raine plans to bring her advocacy to Washington, D.C., next week, where she’ll join lawmakers on Capitol Hill to discuss federal legislation that would establish national standards for AI chatbot safety, particularly protections for minors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>If you or someone you know is struggling, call or text the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline by dialing 988.\u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"slug": "save-or-scroll-looksmaxxing-ai-fruit-love-island-bts-arirang-and-meta-lawsuits",
"title": "Save or Scroll: Looksmaxxing, AI Fruit Love Island, BTS Arirang, and Meta Lawsuits",
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"headTitle": "Save or Scroll: Looksmaxxing, AI Fruit Love Island, BTS Arirang, and Meta Lawsuits | KQED",
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"content": "\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In a spring installment of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Save or Scroll\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, Morgan teams up with culture journalist Steffi Cao to dig into the stories they can’t stop thinking about. From \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">looksmaxxing to \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">AI Fruit Love Island, BTS’ new album, and Meta losing a landmark series of lawsuits, they’ve got a lot to discuss. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Save or Scroll is our series where we team up with guests for a rapid-fire roundup of internet trends that are filling our feeds right now. At the end of each segment, they’ll decide: is the post just for the group chat, or should we save it for a future episode?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC4630070510\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guest:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://stefficao.substack.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steffi Cao\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, culture journalist \u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Further Reading/Listening:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://stefficao.substack.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">More from Steffi Cao\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Substack\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.gq.com/story/inside-claviculars-thirsty-tour-of-new-york-city\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Inside Clavicular’s Thirsty Tour of New York City \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— Kieran Press-Reynolds, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">GQ\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.thedailybeast.com/in-gen-z-gym-culture-steroids-are-often-a-gateway-drug-to-the-alt-right/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why Steroids Are Now Turning Young Men into Dangerous Incels\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Steffi Cao, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Daily Beast\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.fastcompany.com/91519147/fruit-love-island-tiktok-most-popular-ai-generated-series-now-facing-trouble-in-paradise\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">‘Fruit Love Island’ is TikTok’s most popular AI-generated series. It’s now facing trouble in paradise \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— Jude Cramer, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Fast Company \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/theres-something-very-dark-about-a-lot-of-those-viral-ai-fruit-videos/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s Something Very Dark About a Lot of Those Viral AI Fruit Videos \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— Kat Tenbarge, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wired \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.teenvogue.com/story/who-decides-if-bts-album-arirang-is-korean-enough-op-ed\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Who Decides If BTS’s Album ‘Arirang’ is ‘Korean Enough’? \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— Jiye Kim, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Teen Vogue \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://slate.com/culture/2026/03/bts-arirang-album-netflix-swim-comeback-concert-2026.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">BTS’s Arirang comeback was supposed to be a triumph. What happened?\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Nadira Goffe, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Slate \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://19thnews.org/2026/03/social-media-addiction-trial-meta-youtube/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Meta and YouTube ordered to pay $3 million to young woman in social media addiction trial\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Jasmine Mithani, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The 19th\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/what-the-verdict-against-meta-and-google-says-about-the-way-we-live-now\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What the Verdict Against Meta and Google Says About the Way We Live Now\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Jeannie Suk Gersen, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The New Yorker \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ype6c6DdHQY\">The Truth About the Social Media Addiction Trial\u003c/a> — Taylor Lorenz, \u003ci>Free Speech Friday \u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Follow us on\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\"> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Instagram\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@closealltabs\"> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">TikTok\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey, it’s Morgan. We just celebrated the show’s first birthday. That’s right, Close All Tabs is a Pisces. Want to celebrate with us? It would be so, so helpful if you could rate and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to the show. And tell your friends about us too. Okay, let’s get to the episode.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey guys, welcome to Close All Tabs. I’m Morgan Sung, tech journalist and your chronically online friend, here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Except today, we aren’t opening any tabs. Instead, we’re doing another Save or Scroll. We’ve done a few of these now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Occasionally, while scrolling, I come across a truly wild post, but it might not make sense to spend an entire episode on it. Maybe I do a little digging and it turns out that the lore behind it just isn’t compelling enough to justify a deep dive, but I’m still dying to talk about it. And this is the beauty of Save or Scroll, the game where a guest comes to the show and we trade stories from the internet that we’re dying to talk about. Today, we have the one and only Steffi Cao. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you so much for having me, Morgan. I’m so excited. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, Steffi, tell us about yourself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hi everyone, I’m Steffi, I am a culture journalist and Slate’s newest dating advice columnist for Unhinged. You can find my writing everywhere from The Atlantic, to Rolling Stone, to The Guardian, to Slate now, so I’m very excited to share all my tabs and work in today. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so let’s talk about the rules of Save or Scroll. Save, as in when you see a post on TikTok or Instagram or X and you bookmark it, add it to your save folders or if you’re me, drop it in notes app and hope that you’ll remember it’s there. Basically, you’re holding onto the story because you know you’ll want to dig into it more. And scroll, as you think about it and then move on. It disappears into the digital ether.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So Steffi and I have each brought some stories that we can’t stop thinking about, and we’re gonna go back and forth to decide if they’re worth a deep dive on the show. So if we decide to scroll, it means we’ve talked about it, we’re moving on. And if we save, it means that we might hold onto the idea for a future episode.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, Steffi, please tell us about looksmaxxing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Over the past few years, looksmaxxing is the subculture of young men primarily who are seeking guidance from other men in terms of how to gamify their looks to become super, super hot. The essence of looksmaxxing is basically ‘the hotter I can be, the better my life will be around other men.’ And the pinnacle of these content creators currently is a man named Clavicular of collarbone fame.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He’s a 20-year-old white man who has a very soft elfin face and a Dorito-shaped body and has really been associated with a lot of, like, Nazi ideology, has been recently arrested for inciting a fight between two women, allegedly and also allegedly shooting an alligator in Florida. He was kicked out of Las Vegas, I believe, and has become this sort of lightning rod for this entire culture of all these men wanting to get hotter and be hotter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah and Clavicular first went viral for not only his extensive skin care and workout routine, but for also saying that he microdoses meth and would hit his face with a hammer to get a more, I guess, angular jawline. What a man. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What a guy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What a character. Clavicular is so fascinating to me because his political stances are indecipherable. He has gone on some more right-leaning podcasts, and when they try to get him to be kind of transphobic, he said… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clavicular in audio clip]\u003cbr>\nI did a podcast with Michael Knowles the other day and he’s sitting here saying like and getting all mad about transgenders and I’m like bro that’s one more person a mog you know what I mean so like I don’t get too I don’t get too upset when people go trans and all that shit. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s just another person to mog. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How would you describe mogging? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mogging, I think, is the essence of being hotter than somebody else. So if you’ve mogged them, it’s like you’ve shown them up in some way. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Audio clip of Clavicular on the Adam Friedland Show] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Clavicular: That’s the goal of the game, right, is to mog other people, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Adam: Tell the boomer cells about what that is. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Clavicular: So, mogging is essentially just, you know, outperforming them, looking better than them, yeah and just sort of dominating, right. It came from something called AMOG, which was alpha male of the group, then it was shortened to just mog, so that’s kind of like the term we use. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the language has become like a bigger than itself sort of phenomenon where, you know, maxxing and mogging have started from this internal community and then now becomes sort of like general ironic gobbledygook for everybody. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s so interesting too, because the whole looksmaxxing thing has become like the peak Manosphere content. All the allegedly straight boys are really into doing all this to impress other men. It doesn’t seem like they actually do this in any way to appeal to women. And like, I’ve seen a lot of like gay men point out, this is literally gay male culture, what they’re doing, the peacocking, trying to show each other up and like only seek validation from other men, which is from a gender perspective, I’m like, what’s going on here? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It feels like horseshoe theory a little bit. They are doing all of these performative things that come right back to a drag of what a straight man is. It’s like it’s heterosexual drag. Like you’re trying to, you know, build up your face a certain way, you’re trying to mog other straight men, like that’s drag, honey. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like that’s gender performance. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">100% Yeah, I mean, self-improvement leans so well into fascist ideology because a lot of it is predicated on this idea that you can earn your way into something better, which is exactly what looksmaxxing is, right? You can gamify your looks. Like, If you’re not hot now, all you need to do is do all these steps and gain more points, more aura points, until you have achieved this thing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Which is exactly why in Nazi Germany you see a lot of propaganda being espoused about the strongman. That was a huge beauty standard at that point in Hitler’s Germany, was specifically this idea of a man who is super jacked and is super like, is mogged, really, and I have no other word for it really. It’s just like they really..\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A mogged man has always been this cultural fascination and in many ways a mogged woman, obviously. Um, has been a huge part of, uh, fascist ideology for a long time. You know, think about all these essays about why Republican women all look the same and they have this specific look about them. And it has a lot to do with this culture of self-improvement and making all these alterations to yourself to try and earn your way or like bootstrap your way into beauty and therefore access and power and all of these things. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Okay, well, looksmaxxing, the big thing of the year right now, do we save or do we scroll? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, I’m saving it because I think there’s going to be developments. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, yeah, there are going to be new words that have never been said before. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s going be crazy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But looks maxed as a trend, I think we’re saving. After the break, a new bombshell enters the villa. Unfortunately, she’s AI generated and also made of fruit. Steffi and I are going to explain all of the drama around AI Fruit Love Island. Stick around. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have a story for you now. Are you familiar with AI Fruit Love Island? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, am I! Oh my god, I feel like it came out of nowhere and then it’s sudden, it’s like omnipresent now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, for the uninitiated, AI Fruit Love Island was this interactive AI-slop parody of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Love Island\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> with sexy anthropomorphized fruit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clip of Audio from AI Fruit Love Island] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Host: Welcome Back to Fruit Love Island. Today we’ve got a steamy challenge and after over 370,000 viewer votes, our bombshells have officially hit the villa. All right ladies let’s get this started. You’ll be kissed one by each guy and after each kiss you rate it. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so that is one of the episodes of Fruit Love Island. What was happening in that clip? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, it’s basically just a real \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Love Island\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> challenge, but done with fruit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, they have human bodies, um, but their heads are fruit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These are all like, obviously done by AI. The colors are highly saturated. It’s super bright, super like in your face. And then a grape man wearing a Hawaiian shirt and, uh, board shorts, like comes up and kisses the fruit ladies blindfolded. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clip of Audio from AI Fruit Love Island] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Host: Grapenzo, you’re up first. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Contestant: That was hot, an 8.5. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You see all these badly done reactions in the background of these AI fruit women laughing and sort of being like, ha ha ha, this is crazy. So it just is like a \u003cem>Love Island\u003c/em> episode, but with fruit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So for context, this TikTok account kind of came out of nowhere, AICinema021, and they gained about 3.1 million followers in like a week and a half. And now there are so many copycat accounts. The characters include Limeyra, the lime, Bananito, the banana who has abs and is always shirtless, Strawberrina, the strawberry, Coconick, the sexy coconut. And yeah, it’s not good. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The animation and voices are all stilted. There’s zero consistency. It’s pure slop. So viewers gave storyline feedback via Google Form and voted for their faves in the comments. And this account was getting crazy numbers, like 20 million views per episode at its peak and just churning out new episodes every day. I feel like it used to be kind of embarrassing to enjoy this kind of content, but then you had Zara Larsson and Joe Jonas being like, ‘Oh my God, I can’t wait for the next episode.’ Like major celebrities. But yeah, what’s your like initial gut reaction here? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think it makes sense why this thing is taken off, because even though young people online want to act like only boomers love watching AI slop, the fact is our brains are primed to watch AI slop. We have all these deep fried memes and internet humor is so self-referential, but it removes a lot of these barriers in our heads of consuming something like this that really feels as though, like, okay, maybe, um, what could be embarrassing previously could be ironically fun now. I love it because it’s fascinating to see how excited people get about it. But like, is the content good? No, it’s trash, but I don’t think it’s trying to be good. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Well, have you been following the great AI Fruit Love Island crash out… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have not. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…that happened over the weekend? Okay. So this account literally gained millions and millions of followers, three million followers in like a week and a half, which is insane. Like there are human creators who grind for years to get a third of that. But, you know, this account was able to just churn out content so fast and people were invested. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So basically, people were criticizing the account for being AI slop and criticizing viewers for being slop consumers. And the creator did not respond well. In TikTok comments, they complained about how hard it was to make this content and basically implied that like viewers were ungrateful. A real hilarious irony where they were like, it’s really hard because I have to prompt so many times and the AI sometimes messes up and I have to redo it and then I have edit it together. And it sometimes takes me like three hours to make one of these videos. And it’s like, yeah, well… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Imagine how long it must take to film a real TV episode? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s so funny that they’re like, this is so hard, even like having to prompt a generator to be like, and now make Strawberrina kiss the kiwi man is like too much effort. So then their video started getting removed. The creator claimed that it was part of a mass reporting campaign and started crashing onto their story. So this was the first one…they were, I guess, sick of it, right? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They were like, “This is it. I’m sick of all of you.” They were getting criticized for like wasting water basically and people were pointing out like, hey, this is like really sh*tty that you’re kind of encouraging this consumption. So they were posting like, “Was a good run, didn’t expect any of this, but here we are from being a nobody to being cancelled. I guess I’ll take it. People hate to see people win,”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s awesome! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…with screenshots from like their episodes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’t the funniest thing I’ve ever seen. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I’m so glad y’all got what you wanted. Saving the planet three gallons of water at a time, truly inspirational. It’s like, f*ck all y’all, you jealous motherf*ckers, save the planet, OMG, water, OMG. I love water, clean water, please clean water. What y’ all sound like.”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s hilarious. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Thanks for 3 million followers though. Wow, I guess some might like it.” Then they posted one final one, basically saying like, this series is over, this is it, with Bananito, a fan favorite, unfortunately, the sexy banana that is never wearing a shirt. Um, and basically they said, “All right, f*ck all you b*tches, no more Fruit Love Island. Since people are so obsessed with it, all my videos banned, I make no money. I guess I am being targeted because no other AI account is getting f*cked. Y’all heard it from Bananito himself. Bye.”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bye. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s just really funny because they also got mad that other like copycat AI accounts were like copying their theme, which is a real like, so many layers between like, being mad about the copycats and then being like suddenly like creative integrity matters basically. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then being mad at like the effort it took to make these videos. The layers of complete unawareness just go so deep. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Laughter] It’s one of those things where I’m like, oh, of course, this is where we are. People are so fixated on this idea of it’s fine until it’s me because passive consumption is just so self-centric, you’re only thinking about yourself. So of course this person’s mad that other people are stealing their AI fruit slop content without contributing to the AI slop database that can then pull out more content. Okay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s like a content self-eating snake, you know? But I will say, there is one glimmer of hope, despite how many people were obsessed with this slop. I would say there’s an equal faction of people who are really into human-made content. And so this inspired several Fruit Love Island non-AI copycats,. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">With real fruit? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…which I will show you now, which is really beautiful. I love that people are doing this. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clip of Audio from Fruit Love Island] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Host: Welcome to episode one of Fruit Love Island, that’s not AI. I’ve made sure to gather the juiciest of drama in the villa in the past day. Now let’s see what’s happened. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Contestant: I’m here to break hearts, not to fall in love. Hopefully these guys don’t get too attached. Or I don’t. I won’t though. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it’s basically a similar idea, but it’s not really animated so much as like, there are these photoshopped pictures of like people, human bodies with fruits for heads. It’s a human being that made this and it’s not as refined, but they did get voice actors on Discord to like volunteer their voices and voice all of this. And so I’m just like really encouraged by the fact that this has kind of blown up this non-AI Fruit Love Island. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think that’s beautiful. I think we need to reject modernity and embrace tradition in a lot of ways, because we already had Annoying Orange. We need to bring back the original recipes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know. And like Annoying Orange,I hated that content. I didn’t dread it. But you know what? A human being made it.\u003cbr>\n\u003cb>\u003cbr>\nSteffi Cao: \u003c/b>A human-being made it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>So AI Fruit Love Island, do we save or do we scroll?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m gonna scroll on it, but I defer to you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m going to scroll on it too. I think it had a good run. I don’t think we need more of it. I think the crash out was beautiful and hilarious and a real internet moment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Perfect irony. It’s truly, like, perfect. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tell us about this next story you brought. What’s going on with BTS’ new album? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Audio clip of BTS music] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Swim swim, \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is how it all begins\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Swim, swim\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just wanna dive…\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">BTS was away in the military for four years, and the K-pop group, who was arguably one of the biggest acts in the industry and has been for many years, returned with an album called Arirang, and it was predominantly sung in English, and because of that, as well as the fact that it was a different sound from what they’ve previously put out in the past, it was, I think, personally sonically more mixed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Audio clip of BTS music] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Watch this, watch this, \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Beat going hooligan. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We pop out, we actin’ a fool again \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It became very controversial. It didn’t also help that when they did their first live performance in Seoul after the fact, there were a lot of statistics reported about how many people actually attended. They shut down a very busy intersection in Seoul saying that 300,000 people were expected to show up. Korean officials, some of them said that as low as 42,000 showed up and there were adverse impacts from store owners who expected a lot of influx but didn’t get that. And so now there’s this huge debate happening about this album, what it means for K-pop in the industry and like how things have shifted, et cetera. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you think the fandom has aged out of, like, acting like fans? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>[Laughter] \u003c/em>I think that the industry has shifted a lot, and what a fan should act like has changed with it. Because I think in the past, the eternal struggle of a BTS ARMY was trying to convince people that K-pop was a serious art form, that it wasn’t just some silly thing that teen girls listened to, that it was corporate slop pop music, that there were a lot of uphill battles, I think, for a K-Pop fan.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And I think now, over the past four years, you’ve seen a lot more Western embrace of K-pop as a serious art form, as a legitimate cultural export, and not like a niche subculture. So I think that with “K-Pop Demon Hunters”, you have Blackpink headlining Coachella, you had KATSEYE at Lollapalooza, you had all these bigger acts coming out of a Korean system that I think is legitimized in a different way. And so I think that BTS ARMY doesn’t have to convince anyone anymore that BTS is legit. It has shifted this fan identity of like, okay, well, now what? And now what happens?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right, you mentioned that like the entire album is sang in English or like all the lyrics are mostly in English, which is interesting because Arirang is a really culturally important folk song in Korea with a lot of history behind it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clip of Arirang sung in Korean from Youtube user @Miss_Taex] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think people expected a little bit more of that cultural representation with this album. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I think BTS has also throughout their career really emphasized their Korean-ness, especially because they tend to sample a lot of traditional Korean music, a lot of Korean culture comes into play into their performances. And so I think that it was disappointing for a lot fans to open up this album and hear Teddy Swims in the song. Right? They end on a country song, which is like, possibly the most American form of music that we associate in mainstream culture. We don’t associate country music with Korea. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, right. And it’s a hard thing to follow “K-Pop Demon Hunters.” Just like the way that that movie was such a cultural moment and how it introduced so many people to Korean folklore and Korean culture and Korean language. That was a movie that was in English, but a lot of the songs were in Korean. And a lot people who have never spoken Korean learned those songs. And so it’s interesting that BTS wouldn’t see that and like kind of seize the moment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, 100%. I think that it’s frustrating as a fan to feel like the whole reason that you fell so deeply in love with this group has suddenly shifted under your feet and that the intention of the group’s project didn’t align with where you thought they were going to go. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Okay, well, BTS’s new album, do we save or do we scroll? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think. I’m going to personally scroll on it, but I think that there’s a lot to talk about in terms of like Asian artistry. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s a lot to keep an eye on, but personally, don’t come for me, ARMY. I didn’t like the album. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Me either. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I’m gonna scroll on it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was just bored. I was bored. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m in ARMY. I’m in ARMY-da. And I got the tickets. Any ARMY that wants to come for me and I will see you at MetLife. I’ve got the tickets. And what now? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But you can be disappointed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m disappointed in the album. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re allowed to be disappointed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m disappointed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And you’re allowed to scroll. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I am allowed to scroll on it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, last story for today. The Meta lawsuits. Okay, so Meta faced two separate lawsuits: one in California over social media addiction and one in New Mexico for child safety. The one in California took place in LA and it centered around this 20 year-old woman who said that she became addicted to YouTube and Instagram as a child. And that that greatly affected her mental health.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So Snapchat and TikTok were also both defendants, but they settled before it went to court. And a jury in LA found Google and Meta both negligent because the design of their apps encourages infinite scrolling. And the companies didn’t warn users about the dangers of that. So the plaintiff’s lawyer said that both Meta and Google intentionally target kids and prioritize profit over safety. \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\nThe jury concluded that Meta is liable for $4.2 million in damages, and Google is liable for $1.8 million. And then for the case in New Mexico, the state sued Meta over child safety issues. Former employees testified that underage users were shown sexualized content on Instagram and were exposed to predators. And during the court proceedings, they said that Meta’s decision to encrypt Facebook Messenger blocked access to evidence of predators grooming minors. And basically, this is the first time that New Mexico, as a state, was able to successfully sue Meta. So now Meta was ordered to pay $375 million.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So these lawsuits are being celebrated as huge wins for child safety and kind of taking down these evil tech companies. But I’m kind of skeptical of big companies like Meta and Google actually changing their practices. And whenever I hear like child safety social media lawsuit or like child safety and social media in the same sentence, I’m like, everyone wants kids to be safe. Everyone wants to protect the kids. No one wants to expose kids to predators or inappropriate content. But alarm bells are going off in my head where I’m, like, will they be using this to justify more surveillance and more censorship and more practices like age verification, which we’ve covered a lot on this show. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, it makes sense that there’s a lot of cynicism around these child safety lawsuits because what we’ve seen over our careers is that every time there has been one of these landmark lawsuits, it’s like, what is it actually put into practice? People have been concerned about this topic for many, many years, but it feels like the people who are in Congress still miss the mark on the concept of social media as itself. We’ve seen endless clips of Congress people essentially asking Mark Zuckerberg for tech help during Senate hearings. Yeah. So it makes sense that this verdict, even though it’s being lauded as a huge case, I’m not convinced on it either. We’ve seen Meta pay up a lot in the past, and it hasn’t seemed to really shift the needle at all. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s like, if anything, the practices don’t change. Kids aren’t necessarily safer. And everyone else is a little bit more surveilled and censored, like, with the current wave of age verification requirements, like, sweeping any internet platform whatsoever, where you have to put in your ID to continue using Spotify in some countries and I really distrust that. And, I do kind of worry that like any kind of trying to like ensure child safety on social media will just be used to justify more age verification laws. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, 100%. I think that the solution being trusting big tech to manage more of our data and requests that we give up more of privacy is like, it makes a lot of sense as people who’ve grown up online and we’ve seen this play before. It does, I think, breed more of a culture of surveillance.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think also the problem with this lawsuit is that like, it’s not a silver bullet. Like this is a multi-pronged problem where it’s like a part of it is having adults be smarter about their tech use and teaching their kids to critically analyze the content they’re consuming day in and day out. It’s a lot on the education system.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s on providing structural support for young kids to have more time offline to build all these social skills that when you are isolated and just on your feed even though it can be very fun and exciting to be on Tumblr as a 16-year-old, freewheeling it online, you still need an infrastructure behind you to teach you all these skills that you don’t really get when you are online.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So it’s like a multi-pronged problem. It really is on every adult, regardless of where you stand, if you have kids or not, to try and train yourself to be better about your own skillset, because they’re kids, they’re just imitating whatever resource is there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right, and it’s like, Taylor Lorenz on her Free Speech Friday series pointed out that a lot of kids do still, you still need to let them have agency online in some capacity and just like, you know, a lot kids do rely on these online resources to access information about sex ed or find queer community when they don’t have that in real life and to potentially silo them further and take that away could actually endanger kids. Okay, the child safety lawsuits with Meta and Google, do we save or do we scroll? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I feel like we’re going to have to save it because this is going to continue. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, It’s an evergreen save. This is just collecting more and more tabs every day. Thank you so much for joining us, Steffi. Where can people follow your work? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you so much for having me, Morgan. You can check me out on Instagram at Steffi Cao, S-T-E-F-F-I-C-A-O, and my sub-stack, It’s Steffi. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Perfect, thanks so much. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios, and it’s reported and hosted by me, Morgan Sung. This episode was produced by Chris Egusa, who also composed our theme song and credits music. It was edited by Chris Hambrick. Our team includes producer, Maya Cueva. Additional music by APM. Brendan Willard is our audio engineer. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our director of podcasts. Ethan Toven Lindsey is our editor in chief. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you like these deep dives? Are you closing your tabs? Then don’t forget to rate and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to the show. Maybe drop a comment too. Thanks for listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"#episode-transcript\">\u003ci>View the full episode transcript.\u003c/i>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">In a spring installment of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Save or Scroll\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, Morgan teams up with culture journalist Steffi Cao to dig into the stories they can’t stop thinking about. From \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">looksmaxxing to \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">AI Fruit Love Island, BTS’ new album, and Meta losing a landmark series of lawsuits, they’ve got a lot to discuss. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Save or Scroll is our series where we team up with guests for a rapid-fire roundup of internet trends that are filling our feeds right now. At the end of each segment, they’ll decide: is the post just for the group chat, or should we save it for a future episode?\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c!-- iframe plugin v.4.3 wordpress.org/plugins/iframe/ -->\u003cbr>\n\u003ciframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=KQINC4630070510\" width=\"100%\" class=\"iframe-class\">\u003c/iframe>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>Guest:\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://stefficao.substack.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Steffi Cao\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">, culture journalist \u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Further Reading/Listening:\u003c/b>\u003c/p>\n\u003cul>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://stefficao.substack.com/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">More from Steffi Cao\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Substack\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.gq.com/story/inside-claviculars-thirsty-tour-of-new-york-city\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Inside Clavicular’s Thirsty Tour of New York City \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— Kieran Press-Reynolds, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">GQ\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.thedailybeast.com/in-gen-z-gym-culture-steroids-are-often-a-gateway-drug-to-the-alt-right/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Why Steroids Are Now Turning Young Men into Dangerous Incels\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Steffi Cao, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The Daily Beast\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ca href=\"https://www.fastcompany.com/91519147/fruit-love-island-tiktok-most-popular-ai-generated-series-now-facing-trouble-in-paradise\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">‘Fruit Love Island’ is TikTok’s most popular AI-generated series. It’s now facing trouble in paradise \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— Jude Cramer, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Fast Company \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/theres-something-very-dark-about-a-lot-of-those-viral-ai-fruit-videos/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s Something Very Dark About a Lot of Those Viral AI Fruit Videos \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— Kat Tenbarge, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wired \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.teenvogue.com/story/who-decides-if-bts-album-arirang-is-korean-enough-op-ed\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Who Decides If BTS’s Album ‘Arirang’ is ‘Korean Enough’? \u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">— Jiye Kim, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Teen Vogue \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://slate.com/culture/2026/03/bts-arirang-album-netflix-swim-comeback-concert-2026.html\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">BTS’s Arirang comeback was supposed to be a triumph. What happened?\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Nadira Goffe, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Slate \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://19thnews.org/2026/03/social-media-addiction-trial-meta-youtube/\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Meta and YouTube ordered to pay $3 million to young woman in social media addiction trial\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Jasmine Mithani, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The 19th\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/what-the-verdict-against-meta-and-google-says-about-the-way-we-live-now\">\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What the Verdict Against Meta and Google Says About the Way We Live Now\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> — Jeannie Suk Gersen, \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The New Yorker \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003cli>\u003ci>\u003c/i>\u003ca href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ype6c6DdHQY\">The Truth About the Social Media Addiction Trial\u003c/a> — Taylor Lorenz, \u003ci>Free Speech Friday \u003c/i>\u003c/li>\n\u003c/ul>\n\u003cp>Want to give us feedback on the show? Shoot us an email at \u003ca href=\"mailto:CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\">CloseAllTabs@KQED.org\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Follow us on\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.instagram.com/closealltabspod/\"> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Instagram\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> and\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"https://www.tiktok.com/@closealltabs\"> \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">TikTok\u003c/span>\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-content post-body\">\u003ch2 id=\"episode-transcript\">Episode Transcript\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey, it’s Morgan. We just celebrated the show’s first birthday. That’s right, Close All Tabs is a Pisces. Want to celebrate with us? It would be so, so helpful if you could rate and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to the show. And tell your friends about us too. Okay, let’s get to the episode.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hey guys, welcome to Close All Tabs. I’m Morgan Sung, tech journalist and your chronically online friend, here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Except today, we aren’t opening any tabs. Instead, we’re doing another Save or Scroll. We’ve done a few of these now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Occasionally, while scrolling, I come across a truly wild post, but it might not make sense to spend an entire episode on it. Maybe I do a little digging and it turns out that the lore behind it just isn’t compelling enough to justify a deep dive, but I’m still dying to talk about it. And this is the beauty of Save or Scroll, the game where a guest comes to the show and we trade stories from the internet that we’re dying to talk about. Today, we have the one and only Steffi Cao. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you so much for having me, Morgan. I’m so excited. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, Steffi, tell us about yourself. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Hi everyone, I’m Steffi, I am a culture journalist and Slate’s newest dating advice columnist for Unhinged. You can find my writing everywhere from The Atlantic, to Rolling Stone, to The Guardian, to Slate now, so I’m very excited to share all my tabs and work in today. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so let’s talk about the rules of Save or Scroll. Save, as in when you see a post on TikTok or Instagram or X and you bookmark it, add it to your save folders or if you’re me, drop it in notes app and hope that you’ll remember it’s there. Basically, you’re holding onto the story because you know you’ll want to dig into it more. And scroll, as you think about it and then move on. It disappears into the digital ether.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So Steffi and I have each brought some stories that we can’t stop thinking about, and we’re gonna go back and forth to decide if they’re worth a deep dive on the show. So if we decide to scroll, it means we’ve talked about it, we’re moving on. And if we save, it means that we might hold onto the idea for a future episode.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, Steffi, please tell us about looksmaxxing. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Over the past few years, looksmaxxing is the subculture of young men primarily who are seeking guidance from other men in terms of how to gamify their looks to become super, super hot. The essence of looksmaxxing is basically ‘the hotter I can be, the better my life will be around other men.’ And the pinnacle of these content creators currently is a man named Clavicular of collarbone fame.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He’s a 20-year-old white man who has a very soft elfin face and a Dorito-shaped body and has really been associated with a lot of, like, Nazi ideology, has been recently arrested for inciting a fight between two women, allegedly and also allegedly shooting an alligator in Florida. He was kicked out of Las Vegas, I believe, and has become this sort of lightning rod for this entire culture of all these men wanting to get hotter and be hotter.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah and Clavicular first went viral for not only his extensive skin care and workout routine, but for also saying that he microdoses meth and would hit his face with a hammer to get a more, I guess, angular jawline. What a man. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What a guy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">What a character. Clavicular is so fascinating to me because his political stances are indecipherable. He has gone on some more right-leaning podcasts, and when they try to get him to be kind of transphobic, he said… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clavicular in audio clip]\u003cbr>\nI did a podcast with Michael Knowles the other day and he’s sitting here saying like and getting all mad about transgenders and I’m like bro that’s one more person a mog you know what I mean so like I don’t get too I don’t get too upset when people go trans and all that shit. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s just another person to mog. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">How would you describe mogging? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Mogging, I think, is the essence of being hotter than somebody else. So if you’ve mogged them, it’s like you’ve shown them up in some way. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Audio clip of Clavicular on the Adam Friedland Show] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Clavicular: That’s the goal of the game, right, is to mog other people, right? \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Adam: Tell the boomer cells about what that is. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Clavicular: So, mogging is essentially just, you know, outperforming them, looking better than them, yeah and just sort of dominating, right. It came from something called AMOG, which was alpha male of the group, then it was shortened to just mog, so that’s kind of like the term we use. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So the language has become like a bigger than itself sort of phenomenon where, you know, maxxing and mogging have started from this internal community and then now becomes sort of like general ironic gobbledygook for everybody. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s so interesting too, because the whole looksmaxxing thing has become like the peak Manosphere content. All the allegedly straight boys are really into doing all this to impress other men. It doesn’t seem like they actually do this in any way to appeal to women. And like, I’ve seen a lot of like gay men point out, this is literally gay male culture, what they’re doing, the peacocking, trying to show each other up and like only seek validation from other men, which is from a gender perspective, I’m like, what’s going on here? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It feels like horseshoe theory a little bit. They are doing all of these performative things that come right back to a drag of what a straight man is. It’s like it’s heterosexual drag. Like you’re trying to, you know, build up your face a certain way, you’re trying to mog other straight men, like that’s drag, honey. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Like that’s gender performance. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">100% Yeah, I mean, self-improvement leans so well into fascist ideology because a lot of it is predicated on this idea that you can earn your way into something better, which is exactly what looksmaxxing is, right? You can gamify your looks. Like, If you’re not hot now, all you need to do is do all these steps and gain more points, more aura points, until you have achieved this thing.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Which is exactly why in Nazi Germany you see a lot of propaganda being espoused about the strongman. That was a huge beauty standard at that point in Hitler’s Germany, was specifically this idea of a man who is super jacked and is super like, is mogged, really, and I have no other word for it really. It’s just like they really..\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">A mogged man has always been this cultural fascination and in many ways a mogged woman, obviously. Um, has been a huge part of, uh, fascist ideology for a long time. You know, think about all these essays about why Republican women all look the same and they have this specific look about them. And it has a lot to do with this culture of self-improvement and making all these alterations to yourself to try and earn your way or like bootstrap your way into beauty and therefore access and power and all of these things. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Okay, well, looksmaxxing, the big thing of the year right now, do we save or do we scroll? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, I’m saving it because I think there’s going to be developments. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">No, yeah, there are going to be new words that have never been said before. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s going be crazy. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But looks maxed as a trend, I think we’re saving. After the break, a new bombshell enters the villa. Unfortunately, she’s AI generated and also made of fruit. Steffi and I are going to explain all of the drama around AI Fruit Love Island. Stick around. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have a story for you now. Are you familiar with AI Fruit Love Island? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh, am I! Oh my god, I feel like it came out of nowhere and then it’s sudden, it’s like omnipresent now. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So, for the uninitiated, AI Fruit Love Island was this interactive AI-slop parody of \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Love Island\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> with sexy anthropomorphized fruit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clip of Audio from AI Fruit Love Island] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Host: Welcome Back to Fruit Love Island. Today we’ve got a steamy challenge and after over 370,000 viewer votes, our bombshells have officially hit the villa. All right ladies let’s get this started. You’ll be kissed one by each guy and after each kiss you rate it. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, so that is one of the episodes of Fruit Love Island. What was happening in that clip? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Um, it’s basically just a real \u003c/span>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Love Island\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> challenge, but done with fruit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, they have human bodies, um, but their heads are fruit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">These are all like, obviously done by AI. The colors are highly saturated. It’s super bright, super like in your face. And then a grape man wearing a Hawaiian shirt and, uh, board shorts, like comes up and kisses the fruit ladies blindfolded. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clip of Audio from AI Fruit Love Island] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Host: Grapenzo, you’re up first. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Contestant: That was hot, an 8.5. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You see all these badly done reactions in the background of these AI fruit women laughing and sort of being like, ha ha ha, this is crazy. So it just is like a \u003cem>Love Island\u003c/em> episode, but with fruit. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So for context, this TikTok account kind of came out of nowhere, AICinema021, and they gained about 3.1 million followers in like a week and a half. And now there are so many copycat accounts. The characters include Limeyra, the lime, Bananito, the banana who has abs and is always shirtless, Strawberrina, the strawberry, Coconick, the sexy coconut. And yeah, it’s not good. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">The animation and voices are all stilted. There’s zero consistency. It’s pure slop. So viewers gave storyline feedback via Google Form and voted for their faves in the comments. And this account was getting crazy numbers, like 20 million views per episode at its peak and just churning out new episodes every day. I feel like it used to be kind of embarrassing to enjoy this kind of content, but then you had Zara Larsson and Joe Jonas being like, ‘Oh my God, I can’t wait for the next episode.’ Like major celebrities. But yeah, what’s your like initial gut reaction here? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think it makes sense why this thing is taken off, because even though young people online want to act like only boomers love watching AI slop, the fact is our brains are primed to watch AI slop. We have all these deep fried memes and internet humor is so self-referential, but it removes a lot of these barriers in our heads of consuming something like this that really feels as though, like, okay, maybe, um, what could be embarrassing previously could be ironically fun now. I love it because it’s fascinating to see how excited people get about it. But like, is the content good? No, it’s trash, but I don’t think it’s trying to be good. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Well, have you been following the great AI Fruit Love Island crash out… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I have not. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…that happened over the weekend? Okay. So this account literally gained millions and millions of followers, three million followers in like a week and a half, which is insane. Like there are human creators who grind for years to get a third of that. But, you know, this account was able to just churn out content so fast and people were invested. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So basically, people were criticizing the account for being AI slop and criticizing viewers for being slop consumers. And the creator did not respond well. In TikTok comments, they complained about how hard it was to make this content and basically implied that like viewers were ungrateful. A real hilarious irony where they were like, it’s really hard because I have to prompt so many times and the AI sometimes messes up and I have to redo it and then I have edit it together. And it sometimes takes me like three hours to make one of these videos. And it’s like, yeah, well… \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Imagine how long it must take to film a real TV episode? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s so funny that they’re like, this is so hard, even like having to prompt a generator to be like, and now make Strawberrina kiss the kiwi man is like too much effort. So then their video started getting removed. The creator claimed that it was part of a mass reporting campaign and started crashing onto their story. So this was the first one…they were, I guess, sick of it, right? \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">They were like, “This is it. I’m sick of all of you.” They were getting criticized for like wasting water basically and people were pointing out like, hey, this is like really sh*tty that you’re kind of encouraging this consumption. So they were posting like, “Was a good run, didn’t expect any of this, but here we are from being a nobody to being cancelled. I guess I’ll take it. People hate to see people win,”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s awesome! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…with screenshots from like their episodes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’t the funniest thing I’ve ever seen. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“I’m so glad y’all got what you wanted. Saving the planet three gallons of water at a time, truly inspirational. It’s like, f*ck all y’all, you jealous motherf*ckers, save the planet, OMG, water, OMG. I love water, clean water, please clean water. What y’ all sound like.”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">That’s hilarious. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">“Thanks for 3 million followers though. Wow, I guess some might like it.” Then they posted one final one, basically saying like, this series is over, this is it, with Bananito, a fan favorite, unfortunately, the sexy banana that is never wearing a shirt. Um, and basically they said, “All right, f*ck all you b*tches, no more Fruit Love Island. Since people are so obsessed with it, all my videos banned, I make no money. I guess I am being targeted because no other AI account is getting f*cked. Y’all heard it from Bananito himself. Bye.”. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Bye. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s just really funny because they also got mad that other like copycat AI accounts were like copying their theme, which is a real like, so many layers between like, being mad about the copycats and then being like suddenly like creative integrity matters basically. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And then being mad at like the effort it took to make these videos. The layers of complete unawareness just go so deep. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Laughter] It’s one of those things where I’m like, oh, of course, this is where we are. People are so fixated on this idea of it’s fine until it’s me because passive consumption is just so self-centric, you’re only thinking about yourself. So of course this person’s mad that other people are stealing their AI fruit slop content without contributing to the AI slop database that can then pull out more content. Okay. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It’s like a content self-eating snake, you know? But I will say, there is one glimmer of hope, despite how many people were obsessed with this slop. I would say there’s an equal faction of people who are really into human-made content. And so this inspired several Fruit Love Island non-AI copycats,. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">With real fruit? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">…which I will show you now, which is really beautiful. I love that people are doing this. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clip of Audio from Fruit Love Island] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Host: Welcome to episode one of Fruit Love Island, that’s not AI. I’ve made sure to gather the juiciest of drama in the villa in the past day. Now let’s see what’s happened. \u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Contestant: I’m here to break hearts, not to fall in love. Hopefully these guys don’t get too attached. Or I don’t. I won’t though. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So it’s basically a similar idea, but it’s not really animated so much as like, there are these photoshopped pictures of like people, human bodies with fruits for heads. It’s a human being that made this and it’s not as refined, but they did get voice actors on Discord to like volunteer their voices and voice all of this. And so I’m just like really encouraged by the fact that this has kind of blown up this non-AI Fruit Love Island. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think that’s beautiful. I think we need to reject modernity and embrace tradition in a lot of ways, because we already had Annoying Orange. We need to bring back the original recipes. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I know. And like Annoying Orange,I hated that content. I didn’t dread it. But you know what? A human being made it.\u003cbr>\n\u003cb>\u003cbr>\nSteffi Cao: \u003c/b>A human-being made it.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>So AI Fruit Love Island, do we save or do we scroll?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m gonna scroll on it, but I defer to you. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m going to scroll on it too. I think it had a good run. I don’t think we need more of it. I think the crash out was beautiful and hilarious and a real internet moment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Perfect irony. It’s truly, like, perfect. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Tell us about this next story you brought. What’s going on with BTS’ new album? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Audio clip of BTS music] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003cb>\u003cbr>\n\u003c/b>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Swim swim, \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">This is how it all begins\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Swim, swim\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I just wanna dive…\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">BTS was away in the military for four years, and the K-pop group, who was arguably one of the biggest acts in the industry and has been for many years, returned with an album called Arirang, and it was predominantly sung in English, and because of that, as well as the fact that it was a different sound from what they’ve previously put out in the past, it was, I think, personally sonically more mixed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Audio clip of BTS music] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Watch this, watch this, \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Beat going hooligan. \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">We pop out, we actin’ a fool again \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">It became very controversial. It didn’t also help that when they did their first live performance in Seoul after the fact, there were a lot of statistics reported about how many people actually attended. They shut down a very busy intersection in Seoul saying that 300,000 people were expected to show up. Korean officials, some of them said that as low as 42,000 showed up and there were adverse impacts from store owners who expected a lot of influx but didn’t get that. And so now there’s this huge debate happening about this album, what it means for K-pop in the industry and like how things have shifted, et cetera. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you think the fandom has aged out of, like, acting like fans? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cem>[Laughter] \u003c/em>I think that the industry has shifted a lot, and what a fan should act like has changed with it. Because I think in the past, the eternal struggle of a BTS ARMY was trying to convince people that K-pop was a serious art form, that it wasn’t just some silly thing that teen girls listened to, that it was corporate slop pop music, that there were a lot of uphill battles, I think, for a K-Pop fan.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>And I think now, over the past four years, you’ve seen a lot more Western embrace of K-pop as a serious art form, as a legitimate cultural export, and not like a niche subculture. So I think that with “K-Pop Demon Hunters”, you have Blackpink headlining Coachella, you had KATSEYE at Lollapalooza, you had all these bigger acts coming out of a Korean system that I think is legitimized in a different way. And so I think that BTS ARMY doesn’t have to convince anyone anymore that BTS is legit. It has shifted this fan identity of like, okay, well, now what? And now what happens?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right, you mentioned that like the entire album is sang in English or like all the lyrics are mostly in English, which is interesting because Arirang is a really culturally important folk song in Korea with a lot of history behind it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">[Clip of Arirang sung in Korean from Youtube user @Miss_Taex] \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think people expected a little bit more of that cultural representation with this album. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, I think BTS has also throughout their career really emphasized their Korean-ness, especially because they tend to sample a lot of traditional Korean music, a lot of Korean culture comes into play into their performances. And so I think that it was disappointing for a lot fans to open up this album and hear Teddy Swims in the song. Right? They end on a country song, which is like, possibly the most American form of music that we associate in mainstream culture. We don’t associate country music with Korea. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, right. And it’s a hard thing to follow “K-Pop Demon Hunters.” Just like the way that that movie was such a cultural moment and how it introduced so many people to Korean folklore and Korean culture and Korean language. That was a movie that was in English, but a lot of the songs were in Korean. And a lot people who have never spoken Korean learned those songs. And so it’s interesting that BTS wouldn’t see that and like kind of seize the moment. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yes, 100%. I think that it’s frustrating as a fan to feel like the whole reason that you fell so deeply in love with this group has suddenly shifted under your feet and that the intention of the group’s project didn’t align with where you thought they were going to go. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah. Okay, well, BTS’s new album, do we save or do we scroll? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think. I’m going to personally scroll on it, but I think that there’s a lot to talk about in terms of like Asian artistry. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">There’s a lot to keep an eye on, but personally, don’t come for me, ARMY. I didn’t like the album. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Me either. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So I’m gonna scroll on it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Oh! \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I was just bored. I was bored. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m in ARMY. I’m in ARMY-da. And I got the tickets. Any ARMY that wants to come for me and I will see you at MetLife. I’ve got the tickets. And what now? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">But you can be disappointed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I’m disappointed in the album. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">You’re allowed to be disappointed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I’m disappointed. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And you’re allowed to scroll. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And I am allowed to scroll on it. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Okay, last story for today. The Meta lawsuits. Okay, so Meta faced two separate lawsuits: one in California over social media addiction and one in New Mexico for child safety. The one in California took place in LA and it centered around this 20 year-old woman who said that she became addicted to YouTube and Instagram as a child. And that that greatly affected her mental health.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So Snapchat and TikTok were also both defendants, but they settled before it went to court. And a jury in LA found Google and Meta both negligent because the design of their apps encourages infinite scrolling. And the companies didn’t warn users about the dangers of that. So the plaintiff’s lawyer said that both Meta and Google intentionally target kids and prioritize profit over safety. \u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\nThe jury concluded that Meta is liable for $4.2 million in damages, and Google is liable for $1.8 million. And then for the case in New Mexico, the state sued Meta over child safety issues. Former employees testified that underage users were shown sexualized content on Instagram and were exposed to predators. And during the court proceedings, they said that Meta’s decision to encrypt Facebook Messenger blocked access to evidence of predators grooming minors. And basically, this is the first time that New Mexico, as a state, was able to successfully sue Meta. So now Meta was ordered to pay $375 million.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">So these lawsuits are being celebrated as huge wins for child safety and kind of taking down these evil tech companies. But I’m kind of skeptical of big companies like Meta and Google actually changing their practices. And whenever I hear like child safety social media lawsuit or like child safety and social media in the same sentence, I’m like, everyone wants kids to be safe. Everyone wants to protect the kids. No one wants to expose kids to predators or inappropriate content. But alarm bells are going off in my head where I’m, like, will they be using this to justify more surveillance and more censorship and more practices like age verification, which we’ve covered a lot on this show. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I mean, it makes sense that there’s a lot of cynicism around these child safety lawsuits because what we’ve seen over our careers is that every time there has been one of these landmark lawsuits, it’s like, what is it actually put into practice? People have been concerned about this topic for many, many years, but it feels like the people who are in Congress still miss the mark on the concept of social media as itself. We’ve seen endless clips of Congress people essentially asking Mark Zuckerberg for tech help during Senate hearings. Yeah. So it makes sense that this verdict, even though it’s being lauded as a huge case, I’m not convinced on it either. We’ve seen Meta pay up a lot in the past, and it hasn’t seemed to really shift the needle at all. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">And it’s like, if anything, the practices don’t change. Kids aren’t necessarily safer. And everyone else is a little bit more surveilled and censored, like, with the current wave of age verification requirements, like, sweeping any internet platform whatsoever, where you have to put in your ID to continue using Spotify in some countries and I really distrust that. And, I do kind of worry that like any kind of trying to like ensure child safety on social media will just be used to justify more age verification laws. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, 100%. I think that the solution being trusting big tech to manage more of our data and requests that we give up more of privacy is like, it makes a lot of sense as people who’ve grown up online and we’ve seen this play before. It does, I think, breed more of a culture of surveillance.\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u003cbr>\n\u003c/span>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I think also the problem with this lawsuit is that like, it’s not a silver bullet. Like this is a multi-pronged problem where it’s like a part of it is having adults be smarter about their tech use and teaching their kids to critically analyze the content they’re consuming day in and day out. It’s a lot on the education system.\u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It’s on providing structural support for young kids to have more time offline to build all these social skills that when you are isolated and just on your feed even though it can be very fun and exciting to be on Tumblr as a 16-year-old, freewheeling it online, you still need an infrastructure behind you to teach you all these skills that you don’t really get when you are online.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So it’s like a multi-pronged problem. It really is on every adult, regardless of where you stand, if you have kids or not, to try and train yourself to be better about your own skillset, because they’re kids, they’re just imitating whatever resource is there.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Right, and it’s like, Taylor Lorenz on her Free Speech Friday series pointed out that a lot of kids do still, you still need to let them have agency online in some capacity and just like, you know, a lot kids do rely on these online resources to access information about sex ed or find queer community when they don’t have that in real life and to potentially silo them further and take that away could actually endanger kids. Okay, the child safety lawsuits with Meta and Google, do we save or do we scroll? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">I feel like we’re going to have to save it because this is going to continue. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Yeah, It’s an evergreen save. This is just collecting more and more tabs every day. Thank you so much for joining us, Steffi. Where can people follow your work? \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Steffi Cao: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Thank you so much for having me, Morgan. You can check me out on Instagram at Steffi Cao, S-T-E-F-F-I-C-A-O, and my sub-stack, It’s Steffi. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Perfect, thanks so much. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cb>Morgan Sung: \u003c/b>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios, and it’s reported and hosted by me, Morgan Sung. This episode was produced by Chris Egusa, who also composed our theme song and credits music. It was edited by Chris Hambrick. Our team includes producer, Maya Cueva. Additional music by APM. Brendan Willard is our audio engineer. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our director of podcasts. Ethan Toven Lindsey is our editor in chief. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\">Do you like these deep dives? Are you closing your tabs? Then don’t forget to rate and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to the show. Maybe drop a comment too. Thanks for listening. \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ci>\u003cspan style=\"font-weight: 400\"> \u003c/span>\u003c/i>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>"
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"title": "Suspect Was in Apparent Mental Health Crisis During Attack on Sam Altman’s House",
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"content": "\u003cp>The man accused of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12079446/man-threw-molotov-at-sam-altmans-home-then-threatened-to-burn-down-openai-police-say\">firebombing Sam Altman’s home\u003c/a> was experiencing a mental health crisis when he attacked the OpenAI CEO’s residence and company headquarters last week, his attorneys said Tuesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Following his first court appearance in San Francisco Superior Court, defense attorneys suggested Daniel Moreno-Gama, 20, of Spring, Texas, was overcharged and that his attacks should be tried as property crime.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It is unfair and is unjust for the San Francisco district attorney and the federal government to fearmonger and to exploit the mental illness of a vulnerable young man by turning a vandalism case into an attempted murder life exposure case to gain support of a billionaire,” Deputy Public Defender Diamond Ward said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Moreno-Gama is accused of traveling from Texas to San Francisco to target Altman and his company. Authorities said he threw a Molotov cocktail at the CEO’s Russian Hill home before threatening to burn down OpenAI’s Mission Bay building early Friday morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>No one was harmed in either of the incidents. Moreno-Gama’s attorneys said that there was some damage to a gate at Altman’s house.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Daniel is entitled to due process and fair proceedings. Myself, as well as my co-counsel and the rest of my team, will zealously defend Daniel and seek a just outcome in this case,” Ward told reporters on Tuesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079905\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\" style=\"max-width: 885px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079905\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260414-ALTMAN-ATTACK-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"885\" height=\"540\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260414-ALTMAN-ATTACK-KQED.jpg 885w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260414-ALTMAN-ATTACK-KQED-160x98.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 885px) 100vw, 885px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An image posted by the FBI shows Daniel Moreno-Gama, 20, of Spring, Texas, who authorities allege traveled to San Francisco to target Sam Altman, CEO of OpenAI. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Federal Bureau of Investigations)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Moreno-Gama faces two counts of attempted murder, arson and attempted arson, among other charges, from the San Francisco District Attorney’s office, as well as federal charges for attempted damage and destruction of property by means of explosives and possession of an unregistered firearm, brought by the U.S. Attorney’s office. If found guilty, he could face up to life in prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At a press conference announcing the charges against him on Monday, Matt Cobo, the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s acting special agent in charge of San Francisco, said Moreno-Gama’s actions reflected a “dangerous and deliberate plan to bring violence into San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The defendant is alleged to have traveled across state lines with the intent to go target an individual and a major technology company,” Cobo continued. “This was not spontaneous. This was planned, targeted, and extremely serious.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Moreno-Gama has been in custody since Friday, when he was arrested outside of OpenAI’s San Francisco headquarters. After throwing the Molotov cocktail at Altman’s home, he fled on foot and turned up at the office, where he rammed a chair into the building’s glass doors and threatened to burn it down, killing anybody inside.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>SFPD officers said Moreno-Gama was carrying additional incendiary devices, kerosene and a lighter. He also had a document titled “Your Last Warning,” which identified himself as the author, when he was arrested.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079900\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079900\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/BrookeJenkinsAltmanGetty1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/BrookeJenkinsAltmanGetty1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/BrookeJenkinsAltmanGetty1-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/BrookeJenkinsAltmanGetty1-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">San Francisco District Attorney Brooke Jenkins speaks during a press conference where charges against the suspect in the OpenAI CEO Sam Altman mansion firebombing was announced at SFPD headquarters on Monday, April 13, 2026, in San Francisco. \u003ccite>(Lea Suzuki/San Francisco Chronicle via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The multi-part manifesto allegedly “advocated against AI and for the killing and commission of other crimes against CEOs of AI companies and their investors,” according to the Department of Justice. It also included the names and purported addresses of a number of the sector’s prominent CEOs and investors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The document ended with an admission to attempting to kill Altman, and a letter addressed to the OpenAI CEO, saying, “If by some miracle you live, then I would take this as a sign from the divine to redeem yourself.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cobo said the FBI and SFPD had been in contact with the other AI leaders identified in the manifesto, and did not assess any specific threats toward them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079884\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079884\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanHomeGetty2.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanHomeGetty2.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanHomeGetty2-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanHomeGetty2-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A view of OpenAI CEO Sam Altman’s house in Russian Hill after a suspected Molotov cocktail attack in San Francisco, California, on April 13, 2026. \u003ccite>(Tayfun Coskun/Anadolu via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>U.S. Attorney Craig Missakian said the DOJ’s investigation is still developing. He said the incident could evolve to be treated as an act of domestic terrorism if officials determine that Moreno-Gama acted with intent to sway public policy or coerce government or public officials.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Moreno-Gama did not enter a plea on Tuesday, but will remain in custody without bail until his arraignment in May. A court date for the federal charges hasn’t yet been set.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Judge Kenneth Wine also granted a protective order from the district attorney’s office, ordering Moreno-Gama not to have any contact with the people named in the manifesto, or to encourage anyone directly or indirectly to contact them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s extraordinarily bad,” Wine said of Moreno-Gama’s actions in court.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>The man accused of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12079446/man-threw-molotov-at-sam-altmans-home-then-threatened-to-burn-down-openai-police-say\">firebombing Sam Altman’s home\u003c/a> was experiencing a mental health crisis when he attacked the OpenAI CEO’s residence and company headquarters last week, his attorneys said Tuesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Following his first court appearance in San Francisco Superior Court, defense attorneys suggested Daniel Moreno-Gama, 20, of Spring, Texas, was overcharged and that his attacks should be tried as property crime.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It is unfair and is unjust for the San Francisco district attorney and the federal government to fearmonger and to exploit the mental illness of a vulnerable young man by turning a vandalism case into an attempted murder life exposure case to gain support of a billionaire,” Deputy Public Defender Diamond Ward said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Moreno-Gama is accused of traveling from Texas to San Francisco to target Altman and his company. Authorities said he threw a Molotov cocktail at the CEO’s Russian Hill home before threatening to burn down OpenAI’s Mission Bay building early Friday morning.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>No one was harmed in either of the incidents. Moreno-Gama’s attorneys said that there was some damage to a gate at Altman’s house.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Daniel is entitled to due process and fair proceedings. Myself, as well as my co-counsel and the rest of my team, will zealously defend Daniel and seek a just outcome in this case,” Ward told reporters on Tuesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079905\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\" style=\"max-width: 885px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079905\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260414-ALTMAN-ATTACK-KQED.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"885\" height=\"540\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260414-ALTMAN-ATTACK-KQED.jpg 885w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260414-ALTMAN-ATTACK-KQED-160x98.jpg 160w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 885px) 100vw, 885px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">An image posted by the FBI shows Daniel Moreno-Gama, 20, of Spring, Texas, who authorities allege traveled to San Francisco to target Sam Altman, CEO of OpenAI. \u003ccite>(Courtesy of the Federal Bureau of Investigations)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Moreno-Gama faces two counts of attempted murder, arson and attempted arson, among other charges, from the San Francisco District Attorney’s office, as well as federal charges for attempted damage and destruction of property by means of explosives and possession of an unregistered firearm, brought by the U.S. Attorney’s office. If found guilty, he could face up to life in prison.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At a press conference announcing the charges against him on Monday, Matt Cobo, the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s acting special agent in charge of San Francisco, said Moreno-Gama’s actions reflected a “dangerous and deliberate plan to bring violence into San Francisco.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The defendant is alleged to have traveled across state lines with the intent to go target an individual and a major technology company,” Cobo continued. “This was not spontaneous. This was planned, targeted, and extremely serious.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Moreno-Gama has been in custody since Friday, when he was arrested outside of OpenAI’s San Francisco headquarters. After throwing the Molotov cocktail at Altman’s home, he fled on foot and turned up at the office, where he rammed a chair into the building’s glass doors and threatened to burn it down, killing anybody inside.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>SFPD officers said Moreno-Gama was carrying additional incendiary devices, kerosene and a lighter. He also had a document titled “Your Last Warning,” which identified himself as the author, when he was arrested.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079900\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079900\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/BrookeJenkinsAltmanGetty1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1334\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/BrookeJenkinsAltmanGetty1.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/BrookeJenkinsAltmanGetty1-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/BrookeJenkinsAltmanGetty1-1536x1025.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">San Francisco District Attorney Brooke Jenkins speaks during a press conference where charges against the suspect in the OpenAI CEO Sam Altman mansion firebombing was announced at SFPD headquarters on Monday, April 13, 2026, in San Francisco. \u003ccite>(Lea Suzuki/San Francisco Chronicle via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The multi-part manifesto allegedly “advocated against AI and for the killing and commission of other crimes against CEOs of AI companies and their investors,” according to the Department of Justice. It also included the names and purported addresses of a number of the sector’s prominent CEOs and investors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The document ended with an admission to attempting to kill Altman, and a letter addressed to the OpenAI CEO, saying, “If by some miracle you live, then I would take this as a sign from the divine to redeem yourself.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Cobo said the FBI and SFPD had been in contact with the other AI leaders identified in the manifesto, and did not assess any specific threats toward them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079884\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079884\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanHomeGetty2.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanHomeGetty2.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanHomeGetty2-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/SamAltmanHomeGetty2-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A view of OpenAI CEO Sam Altman’s house in Russian Hill after a suspected Molotov cocktail attack in San Francisco, California, on April 13, 2026. \u003ccite>(Tayfun Coskun/Anadolu via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>U.S. Attorney Craig Missakian said the DOJ’s investigation is still developing. He said the incident could evolve to be treated as an act of domestic terrorism if officials determine that Moreno-Gama acted with intent to sway public policy or coerce government or public officials.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Moreno-Gama did not enter a plea on Tuesday, but will remain in custody without bail until his arraignment in May. A court date for the federal charges hasn’t yet been set.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Judge Kenneth Wine also granted a protective order from the district attorney’s office, ordering Moreno-Gama not to have any contact with the people named in the manifesto, or to encourage anyone directly or indirectly to contact them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“It’s extraordinarily bad,” Wine said of Moreno-Gama’s actions in court.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"content": "\u003cp>For nine years now, the \u003ca href=\"https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2026-ai-index-report\">AI Index Report\u003c/a> from the Stanford Institute for Human-Centered AI (HAI) has combed through data from across academia, industry and government to produce an annual snapshot of where artificial intelligence stands, and suggest where it’s heading.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The report covers the biggest technical advances, investments, trends in education, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12078982/google-updates-suicide-self-harm-safeguards-in-gemini-as-ai-lawsuits-mount\">health\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076862/scott-wiener-and-garry-tan-team-up-to-tackle-big-techs-anti-competitive-behavior\">legislation \u003c/a>and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12063587/ai-boom-leads-to-increased-concerns-of-environmental-impacts-of-data-centers\">the environment\u003c/a>, offering an empirical foundation for understanding AI’s rapid evolution and real-world adoption.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2026-ai-index-report\">2026 report\u003c/a> also details a growing tension, especially among Americans: expert excitement about what AI is capable of, and public fear for what it all means for their \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034490/ai-companions-seductive-risk-teens-senators-want-more-guardrails\">personal lives\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076726/ai-is-changing-tech-work-heres-why-it-matters-for-the-rest-of-us\">jobs\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Are we well-positioned as a society to manage its direction, absorb its disruption and ultimately decide how we’re going to leverage this technology?” said Sha Sajadieh, who leads the AI Index for Stanford’s Institute for Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She added that the general public needs to channel their fear of the unknown, not to mention news of \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11939910/a-layoff-spree-at-bay-area-tech-companies\">mass layoffs\u003c/a> in one industry after another, and move past reactivity to take advantage of the best AI has to offer. “Part of that is up-skilling at every age, in every way. There’s a lot of opportunity, but the onus is on us to fully realize the opportunity this technology presents us, and understand it.”[aside postID=news_12079267 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/Hegseth-Side-by-Side-c.jpg']The survey is considered a must-read for policymakers in academia, business and politics. But as transparency from top AI developers declines, Sajadieh acknowledged it’s harder to know what needs to be addressed, especially with regulation or legislation, “for us to understand what risks we want to mitigate first as a society.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Enthusiasm and evangelism around AI have relegated considerations about how to responsibly manage its applications and use cases to the back burner,” Stephen Baiter, executive director of the East Bay Economic Development Alliance, wrote KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He observed that jobs tied to the physical world, especially in areas like construction, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076753/northern-california-kaiser-therapists-hold-1-day-strike-over-ai-patient-care-concerns\">health care\u003c/a>, and public safety, seem to be at the least risk of disruption. But he has concerns beyond AI’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076726/ai-is-changing-tech-work-heres-why-it-matters-for-the-rest-of-us\">immediate impacts on labor\u003c/a> markets. “There has been strong deference toward delaying or ignoring sensitive core human rights and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12026604/bay-areas-ai-boom-fuels-a-dirty-energy-dilemma/\">quality of life issues\u003c/a> related to individual/personal privacy, safety, and security.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Other critics of AI go further. “The ones who don’t see eye to eye with the leading experts and the general public are the companies themselves, which are engaged in a race to replace humans as quickly as possible,” e-mailed Chase Hardin, spokesman for the non-profit The Future of Life Institute, which is dedicated to reducing global catastrophic and existential risks from transformative technologies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hardin said that public polling is unambiguously negative about the risks of AI. “We can argue about why that is, but the public is \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076608/what-\">deeply skeptical\u003c/a> of the companies themselves, the technology, and it is incredibly anxious about what it means for their children.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Top takeaways of the AI Index Report include:\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong style=\"font-size: 16px\">1. \u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>AI experts and the public have very different perspectives on the technology’s future.\u003c/strong> Assessing AI’s impact on jobs, 73% of U.S. AI experts said the technology’s impacts on jobs are positive, compared with only 23% of the public, a 50 percentage-point gap. Similar divides emerge regarding the economy and medical care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Globally, trust in governments to regulate AI varies. Among surveyed countries, the United States reported the lowest level of trust in its own government to regulate AI, at 31%. Globally, the EU is trusted more than the United States or China to regulate AI effectively.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>2. AI capability is accelerating and reaching more people than ever.\u003c/strong> Private companies built more than 9 in 10 of the world’s most powerful AI models in 2025, and some of those models are now beating human experts on PhD-level science and advanced math exams.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>3. Productivity gains from AI are appearing in many of the same fields where entry-level employment is starting to decline. \u003c/strong>Studies show productivity gains of 14% to 26% in customer support and software development, with weaker or negative effects in tasks requiring more judgment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In software development, where AI’s measured productivity gains are clearest, U.S. developers ages 22 to 25 saw employment fall nearly 20% from 2024, even as the headcount for older developers continues to grow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>4. Students are using AI, but their educational institutions are still playing catch-up. \u003c/strong>Four out of five U.S. high school and college students now \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12053799/not-even-ai-can-save-me-students-teachers-on-ai-this-school-year\">use AI for schoolwork\u003c/a>, but only half of middle and high schools have AI policies in place, and just 6% of teachers say those policies are clear.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12063947\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12063947 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A review of more than 500 clinical AI studies found nearly half relied on exam-style questions instead of real patient data, while just 5% used actual clinical data. \u003ccite>(LPETTET via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>5. AI is transforming clinical health care, but rigorous evidence remains limited. \u003c/strong>AI tools that automatically generate clinical notes from patient visits saw substantial adoption in 2025. Across multiple hospital systems, physicians reported up to 83% less time spent writing notes and significant reductions in burnout.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Beyond certain tools, however, the evidence base for clinical AI remains thin. A review of more than 500 clinical AI studies found that nearly half relied on exam-style questions rather than real patient data, with only 5% using real clinical data.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>6. AI’s environmental footprint is expanding alongside its capabilities.\u003c/strong> Training a single AI model last year generated roughly as much carbon as 16,000 round-trip flights from San Francisco to New York. Researchers estimate that running just one widely-used AI model, GPT-4o, may consume enough water annually to meet the drinking needs of every person in Los Angeles and San Francisco combined.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>7. The United States leads the world in AI investment, but its ability to attract global talent is declining.\u003c/strong> U.S. private AI investment reached $285.9 billion in 2025, more than 23 times the $12.4 billion invested in China — though looking at just private investment figures likely understates China’s total AI spending, given its government guidance funds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The U.S. also led in entrepreneurial activity with 1,953 newly funded AI companies in 2025, more than 10 times the next closest country, which was the U.K. However, the number of AI researchers and developers moving to the U.S. has dropped 89% since 2017, with an 80% decline in the last year alone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>8. The U.S.-China AI model performance gap has effectively closed. \u003c/strong>U.S. and Chinese models have traded the lead multiple times since early 2025.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The U.S. still builds more of the world’s most powerful AI models, but China is publishing more research, filing more patents, and installing more robots in its factories. South Korea stands out for its innovation density, leading the world in AI patents per capita.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>For nine years now, the \u003ca href=\"https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2026-ai-index-report\">AI Index Report\u003c/a> from the Stanford Institute for Human-Centered AI (HAI) has combed through data from across academia, industry and government to produce an annual snapshot of where artificial intelligence stands, and suggest where it’s heading.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The report covers the biggest technical advances, investments, trends in education, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12078982/google-updates-suicide-self-harm-safeguards-in-gemini-as-ai-lawsuits-mount\">health\u003c/a>, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076862/scott-wiener-and-garry-tan-team-up-to-tackle-big-techs-anti-competitive-behavior\">legislation \u003c/a>and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12063587/ai-boom-leads-to-increased-concerns-of-environmental-impacts-of-data-centers\">the environment\u003c/a>, offering an empirical foundation for understanding AI’s rapid evolution and real-world adoption.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The \u003ca href=\"https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2026-ai-index-report\">2026 report\u003c/a> also details a growing tension, especially among Americans: expert excitement about what AI is capable of, and public fear for what it all means for their \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12034490/ai-companions-seductive-risk-teens-senators-want-more-guardrails\">personal lives\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076726/ai-is-changing-tech-work-heres-why-it-matters-for-the-rest-of-us\">jobs\u003c/a>.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>The survey is considered a must-read for policymakers in academia, business and politics. But as transparency from top AI developers declines, Sajadieh acknowledged it’s harder to know what needs to be addressed, especially with regulation or legislation, “for us to understand what risks we want to mitigate first as a society.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Enthusiasm and evangelism around AI have relegated considerations about how to responsibly manage its applications and use cases to the back burner,” Stephen Baiter, executive director of the East Bay Economic Development Alliance, wrote KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>He observed that jobs tied to the physical world, especially in areas like construction, \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076753/northern-california-kaiser-therapists-hold-1-day-strike-over-ai-patient-care-concerns\">health care\u003c/a>, and public safety, seem to be at the least risk of disruption. But he has concerns beyond AI’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076726/ai-is-changing-tech-work-heres-why-it-matters-for-the-rest-of-us\">immediate impacts on labor\u003c/a> markets. “There has been strong deference toward delaying or ignoring sensitive core human rights and \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12026604/bay-areas-ai-boom-fuels-a-dirty-energy-dilemma/\">quality of life issues\u003c/a> related to individual/personal privacy, safety, and security.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Other critics of AI go further. “The ones who don’t see eye to eye with the leading experts and the general public are the companies themselves, which are engaged in a race to replace humans as quickly as possible,” e-mailed Chase Hardin, spokesman for the non-profit The Future of Life Institute, which is dedicated to reducing global catastrophic and existential risks from transformative technologies.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Hardin said that public polling is unambiguously negative about the risks of AI. “We can argue about why that is, but the public is \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12076608/what-\">deeply skeptical\u003c/a> of the companies themselves, the technology, and it is incredibly anxious about what it means for their children.”\u003c/p>\n\u003ch2>Top takeaways of the AI Index Report include:\u003c/h2>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong style=\"font-size: 16px\">1. \u003c/strong>\u003cstrong>AI experts and the public have very different perspectives on the technology’s future.\u003c/strong> Assessing AI’s impact on jobs, 73% of U.S. AI experts said the technology’s impacts on jobs are positive, compared with only 23% of the public, a 50 percentage-point gap. Similar divides emerge regarding the economy and medical care.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Globally, trust in governments to regulate AI varies. Among surveyed countries, the United States reported the lowest level of trust in its own government to regulate AI, at 31%. Globally, the EU is trusted more than the United States or China to regulate AI effectively.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>2. AI capability is accelerating and reaching more people than ever.\u003c/strong> Private companies built more than 9 in 10 of the world’s most powerful AI models in 2025, and some of those models are now beating human experts on PhD-level science and advanced math exams.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>3. Productivity gains from AI are appearing in many of the same fields where entry-level employment is starting to decline. \u003c/strong>Studies show productivity gains of 14% to 26% in customer support and software development, with weaker or negative effects in tasks requiring more judgment.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In software development, where AI’s measured productivity gains are clearest, U.S. developers ages 22 to 25 saw employment fall nearly 20% from 2024, even as the headcount for older developers continues to grow.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>4. Students are using AI, but their educational institutions are still playing catch-up. \u003c/strong>Four out of five U.S. high school and college students now \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12053799/not-even-ai-can-save-me-students-teachers-on-ai-this-school-year\">use AI for schoolwork\u003c/a>, but only half of middle and high schools have AI policies in place, and just 6% of teachers say those policies are clear.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12063947\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12063947 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2025/11/CaregiverGetty-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A review of more than 500 clinical AI studies found nearly half relied on exam-style questions instead of real patient data, while just 5% used actual clinical data. \u003ccite>(LPETTET via Getty Images)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>5. AI is transforming clinical health care, but rigorous evidence remains limited. \u003c/strong>AI tools that automatically generate clinical notes from patient visits saw substantial adoption in 2025. Across multiple hospital systems, physicians reported up to 83% less time spent writing notes and significant reductions in burnout.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Beyond certain tools, however, the evidence base for clinical AI remains thin. A review of more than 500 clinical AI studies found that nearly half relied on exam-style questions rather than real patient data, with only 5% using real clinical data.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>6. AI’s environmental footprint is expanding alongside its capabilities.\u003c/strong> Training a single AI model last year generated roughly as much carbon as 16,000 round-trip flights from San Francisco to New York. Researchers estimate that running just one widely-used AI model, GPT-4o, may consume enough water annually to meet the drinking needs of every person in Los Angeles and San Francisco combined.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>7. The United States leads the world in AI investment, but its ability to attract global talent is declining.\u003c/strong> U.S. private AI investment reached $285.9 billion in 2025, more than 23 times the $12.4 billion invested in China — though looking at just private investment figures likely understates China’s total AI spending, given its government guidance funds.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The U.S. also led in entrepreneurial activity with 1,953 newly funded AI companies in 2025, more than 10 times the next closest country, which was the U.K. However, the number of AI researchers and developers moving to the U.S. has dropped 89% since 2017, with an 80% decline in the last year alone.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>8. The U.S.-China AI model performance gap has effectively closed. \u003c/strong>U.S. and Chinese models have traded the lead multiple times since early 2025.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The U.S. still builds more of the world’s most powerful AI models, but China is publishing more research, filing more patents, and installing more robots in its factories. South Korea stands out for its innovation density, leading the world in AI patents per capita.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cp>When pro-Palestinian student protests swept college campuses across the country two years ago, the movement at \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/san-francisco-state-university\">San Francisco State University\u003c/a> was an outlier.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Elsewhere, many of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11984203/pro-palestinian-protests-sweep-california-college-campuses-amid-israel-hamas-war\">campus encampments and demonstrations\u003c/a> against Israel’s war on Gaza had led to clashes with administrators or violent crackdowns by law enforcement. Meanwhile, at SF State, President Lynn Mahoney sat down in front of hundreds on Malcolm X Plaza for what was believed to have been a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11985130/sfsu-president-begins-negotiations-with-campus-gaza-protesters\">first-of-its-kind public negotiation session\u003c/a> between school leaders and students, which led to a change to the school’s endowment investment policy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We are one of the only schools in the entire nation that got divestment,” said Sam Silva, a graduate student in SF State’s communication studies department. “That is a pretty huge deal.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This week, Mahoney again sat across from a panel of five students to negotiate on a package of broader demands, including protections for undocumented students, transparency around campus funding cuts and improvements to dorm conditions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The SFSU Student Union won the session, one of the advocacy groups that led the university’s pro-Palestinian protest movement in 2024. Since the organization has evolved, applying the lessons learned two years ago to their continued push to represent students before campus administrators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Many of us have learned from the encampment, and learned how to win,” said Brian Yan, a media liaison for the Student Union. Last semester, he said, more than 180 students, graduate students and workers gathered for a Student Union “general assembly” to begin discussing the demands they negotiated this week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079189\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079189 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-07-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-07-BL_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-07-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-07-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">SFSU President Lynn Mahoney speaks with a student negotiating team in Malcolm X Plaza at San Francisco State University on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We know that we need as many students as we can possibly get,” he said. “When you see almost 200 people sitting right outside your building, saying, ‘If we don’t get [a negotiating session] we will escalate,’ I think that compels administrators to come out and bargain.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over the last two years, the group has focused on broadening campus support.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At weekly general meetings, leaders share updates, host trainings and discuss relevant news and articles. Throughout the 2025-26 school year, the organization has also built up at least nine smaller department unions, which aim to engage a wider swath of students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A group of students in the Department of Broadcast and Electronic Communication Arts launched a \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/4ncPsxmp99mU4e7SOPGnyq\">podcast\u003c/a> that ran six episodes last year, amplifying the Student Union and its departments’ platforms. Students also chat and share updates on a Substack page and Slack channel.[aside postID=news_12002307 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2024/08/20240829-SFSUGazarally-JY-011-1020x680.jpg']“We have our student government, and I think that functions kind of like the government. Our job is to really try to talk to the students on campus and figure out what issues they’re actually facing and how we can address them in a way that a union might, with a mass movement,” said Kenna Klop-Packel, a member of the Student Union’s leadership team.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Klop-Packel said she was already part of a student group called Mathematistas, which focused on community-building and gender equity in the math department. In the fall, the organization added the broader interests of the Student Union to its focus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I saw, and I think the people around me also saw that this is one way that we could support equity in mathematics,” Klop-Packel said, adding that many of the organizations’ goals aligned.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the math department, Klop-Packel said calculus class sizes have tripled in recent years. Other courses have more limited availability.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The people that are going to first fall through the cracks are the people who already didn’t feel at home in the math department,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The math union meets weekly, and in addition to the Mathematistas’ former community building and department-specific events, it now also “practices classroom conversations, how to explain to our classmates about these issues, and what the Student Union is doing, how we’re fighting back,” Klop-Packel told KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079196\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079196 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-23-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-23-BL_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-23-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-23-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Student demands are displayed on a banner while a student negotiating team speaks with SFSU President Lynn Mahoney and Provost Amy Sueyoshi in Malcolm X Plaza at San Francisco State University on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>At the first public negotiation session in 2024, representatives of the SFSU Students for Palestine Encampment urged changes to the university’s endowment investment policy and asked administrators to declare a genocide in Gaza.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That August, the campus announced it \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12002307/san-francisco-state-divests-from-weapons-makers-after-working-with-student-activists\">would divest from four companies\u003c/a>: weapons manufacturers Lockheed Martin and Leonardo, data analysis company and military contractor Palantir, and construction equipment maker Caterpillar. In December, it adopted a new investment policy with limitations on companies that profit from weapons manufacturing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last fall, the Student Union launched its second major negotiating campaign with a series of general assemblies. That led to the list of five demands, including increased budget transparency, that students sent to administrators in March and discussed with Mahoney and Provost Amy Sueyoshi on Wednesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Vi Lee, another member of the Student Union’s leadership team, said the focus on campus finances was a “logical next step” for the group, which formed the year before the pro-Palestinian protest movement in response to tuition hikes across the California State University system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079190\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079190 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-10-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-10-BL_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-10-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-10-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">SFSU Provost Amy Sueyoshi speaks with a student negotiating team in Malcolm X Plaza at San Francisco State University on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“Those issues had not gone away, they’d only gotten worse,” Lee said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Between 2019 and 2024, the campus \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12018149/san-francisco-state-students-faculty-mourn-job-cuts-funeral-march\">cut more than 1,000 course sections\u003c/a> and let go of 155 lecturers whose positions rely on those classes. In December, it offered buyouts to tenured and tenure-track faculty who have worked at the school for at least five years in the face of a $20 million budget deficit, \u003ca href=\"https://goldengatexpress.org/114511/news/campus/sfsu-offers-buyouts-to-all-tenure-track-and-tenured-faculty/\">according to the \u003cem>Golden Gate Xpress\u003c/em>\u003c/a>, a student news outlet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In spring 2027, SF State plans to discontinue or suspend a dozen undergraduate degree programs as well as a handful of master’s programs and minors. University spokesperson Bobby King said those cuts are meant to realign resources with enrollment demand and aren’t related to the budget. A decade ago, enrollment hovered just under 30,000 students, down to just over 20,700 this year, according to campus data.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079193\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079193\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-19-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-19-BL_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-19-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-19-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Students walk through the San Francisco State University campus on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The students have asked for the university to halt future class and program cuts and provide transparency around the budget shortfall.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They also brought forward four other wide-ranging demands: changes to the school’s policies surrounding AI, a public statement affirming that the school won’t hand over to the federal government the names of students and faculty who participate in political actions, new protections for students against Immigration and Customs Enforcement and improved conditions in dorms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The group said the list represents students’ “collective working and educational issues on campus.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During Wednesday’s hourlong session, no campus policy changes were made. Afterward, however, Mahoney said she believed some of the students’ demands would bring about changes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079187\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079187 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-03-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-03-BL_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-03-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-03-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A student negotiating team speaks with SFSU President Lynn Mahoney and Provost Amy Sueyoshi in Malcolm X Plaza at San Francisco State University on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“I think we do need to set rules for AI, and I think students and faculty and staff have to participate in those rules. I also think we need to continue to work really closely with our undocumented students and their allies to do the best we can for them at a hard moment,” she told KQED. “I think that there’s a lot of agreement. There will not be full agreement, but hopefully enough that the students continue what they’ve always done here, which is work really hard to leave San Francisco State better than they found it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Student Union plans to hold another general assembly to debrief the negotiations and determine next steps next week. But, Yan said, the Wednesday session had already accomplished at least one of the group’s goals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Every single student can see what administrators say, and hold them to account when they do make proposals … when they lie, when they make up excuses, and see when they’re not providing enough for their students,” he told KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>When pro-Palestinian student protests swept college campuses across the country two years ago, the movement at \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/san-francisco-state-university\">San Francisco State University\u003c/a> was an outlier.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Elsewhere, many of the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11984203/pro-palestinian-protests-sweep-california-college-campuses-amid-israel-hamas-war\">campus encampments and demonstrations\u003c/a> against Israel’s war on Gaza had led to clashes with administrators or violent crackdowns by law enforcement. Meanwhile, at SF State, President Lynn Mahoney sat down in front of hundreds on Malcolm X Plaza for what was believed to have been a \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/11985130/sfsu-president-begins-negotiations-with-campus-gaza-protesters\">first-of-its-kind public negotiation session\u003c/a> between school leaders and students, which led to a change to the school’s endowment investment policy.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“We are one of the only schools in the entire nation that got divestment,” said Sam Silva, a graduate student in SF State’s communication studies department. “That is a pretty huge deal.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This week, Mahoney again sat across from a panel of five students to negotiate on a package of broader demands, including protections for undocumented students, transparency around campus funding cuts and improvements to dorm conditions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The SFSU Student Union won the session, one of the advocacy groups that led the university’s pro-Palestinian protest movement in 2024. Since the organization has evolved, applying the lessons learned two years ago to their continued push to represent students before campus administrators.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Many of us have learned from the encampment, and learned how to win,” said Brian Yan, a media liaison for the Student Union. Last semester, he said, more than 180 students, graduate students and workers gathered for a Student Union “general assembly” to begin discussing the demands they negotiated this week.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079189\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079189 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-07-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-07-BL_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-07-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-07-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">SFSU President Lynn Mahoney speaks with a student negotiating team in Malcolm X Plaza at San Francisco State University on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“We know that we need as many students as we can possibly get,” he said. “When you see almost 200 people sitting right outside your building, saying, ‘If we don’t get [a negotiating session] we will escalate,’ I think that compels administrators to come out and bargain.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Over the last two years, the group has focused on broadening campus support.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>At weekly general meetings, leaders share updates, host trainings and discuss relevant news and articles. Throughout the 2025-26 school year, the organization has also built up at least nine smaller department unions, which aim to engage a wider swath of students.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A group of students in the Department of Broadcast and Electronic Communication Arts launched a \u003ca href=\"https://open.spotify.com/show/4ncPsxmp99mU4e7SOPGnyq\">podcast\u003c/a> that ran six episodes last year, amplifying the Student Union and its departments’ platforms. Students also chat and share updates on a Substack page and Slack channel.\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>“We have our student government, and I think that functions kind of like the government. Our job is to really try to talk to the students on campus and figure out what issues they’re actually facing and how we can address them in a way that a union might, with a mass movement,” said Kenna Klop-Packel, a member of the Student Union’s leadership team.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Klop-Packel said she was already part of a student group called Mathematistas, which focused on community-building and gender equity in the math department. In the fall, the organization added the broader interests of the Student Union to its focus.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“I saw, and I think the people around me also saw that this is one way that we could support equity in mathematics,” Klop-Packel said, adding that many of the organizations’ goals aligned.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the math department, Klop-Packel said calculus class sizes have tripled in recent years. Other courses have more limited availability.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“The people that are going to first fall through the cracks are the people who already didn’t feel at home in the math department,” she said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The math union meets weekly, and in addition to the Mathematistas’ former community building and department-specific events, it now also “practices classroom conversations, how to explain to our classmates about these issues, and what the Student Union is doing, how we’re fighting back,” Klop-Packel told KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079196\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079196 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-23-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-23-BL_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-23-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-23-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Student demands are displayed on a banner while a student negotiating team speaks with SFSU President Lynn Mahoney and Provost Amy Sueyoshi in Malcolm X Plaza at San Francisco State University on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>At the first public negotiation session in 2024, representatives of the SFSU Students for Palestine Encampment urged changes to the university’s endowment investment policy and asked administrators to declare a genocide in Gaza.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>That August, the campus announced it \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12002307/san-francisco-state-divests-from-weapons-makers-after-working-with-student-activists\">would divest from four companies\u003c/a>: weapons manufacturers Lockheed Martin and Leonardo, data analysis company and military contractor Palantir, and construction equipment maker Caterpillar. In December, it adopted a new investment policy with limitations on companies that profit from weapons manufacturing.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Last fall, the Student Union launched its second major negotiating campaign with a series of general assemblies. That led to the list of five demands, including increased budget transparency, that students sent to administrators in March and discussed with Mahoney and Provost Amy Sueyoshi on Wednesday.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Vi Lee, another member of the Student Union’s leadership team, said the focus on campus finances was a “logical next step” for the group, which formed the year before the pro-Palestinian protest movement in response to tuition hikes across the California State University system.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079190\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079190 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-10-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-10-BL_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-10-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-10-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">SFSU Provost Amy Sueyoshi speaks with a student negotiating team in Malcolm X Plaza at San Francisco State University on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“Those issues had not gone away, they’d only gotten worse,” Lee said.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Between 2019 and 2024, the campus \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12018149/san-francisco-state-students-faculty-mourn-job-cuts-funeral-march\">cut more than 1,000 course sections\u003c/a> and let go of 155 lecturers whose positions rely on those classes. In December, it offered buyouts to tenured and tenure-track faculty who have worked at the school for at least five years in the face of a $20 million budget deficit, \u003ca href=\"https://goldengatexpress.org/114511/news/campus/sfsu-offers-buyouts-to-all-tenure-track-and-tenured-faculty/\">according to the \u003cem>Golden Gate Xpress\u003c/em>\u003c/a>, a student news outlet.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In spring 2027, SF State plans to discontinue or suspend a dozen undergraduate degree programs as well as a handful of master’s programs and minors. University spokesperson Bobby King said those cuts are meant to realign resources with enrollment demand and aren’t related to the budget. A decade ago, enrollment hovered just under 30,000 students, down to just over 20,700 this year, according to campus data.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079193\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 2000px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-12079193\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-19-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-19-BL_qed.jpg 2000w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-19-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-19-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Students walk through the San Francisco State University campus on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>The students have asked for the university to halt future class and program cuts and provide transparency around the budget shortfall.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>They also brought forward four other wide-ranging demands: changes to the school’s policies surrounding AI, a public statement affirming that the school won’t hand over to the federal government the names of students and faculty who participate in political actions, new protections for students against Immigration and Customs Enforcement and improved conditions in dorms.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The group said the list represents students’ “collective working and educational issues on campus.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>During Wednesday’s hourlong session, no campus policy changes were made. Afterward, however, Mahoney said she believed some of the students’ demands would bring about changes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_12079187\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1999px\">\u003cimg loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-12079187 size-full\" src=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-03-BL_qed.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1999\" height=\"1333\" srcset=\"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-03-BL_qed.jpg 1999w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-03-BL_qed-160x107.jpg 160w, https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/04/260408-SFSUNegotiations-03-BL_qed-1536x1024.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1999px) 100vw, 1999px\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">A student negotiating team speaks with SFSU President Lynn Mahoney and Provost Amy Sueyoshi in Malcolm X Plaza at San Francisco State University on April 8, 2026. \u003ccite>(Beth LaBerge/KQED)\u003c/cite>\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>“I think we do need to set rules for AI, and I think students and faculty and staff have to participate in those rules. I also think we need to continue to work really closely with our undocumented students and their allies to do the best we can for them at a hard moment,” she told KQED. “I think that there’s a lot of agreement. There will not be full agreement, but hopefully enough that the students continue what they’ve always done here, which is work really hard to leave San Francisco State better than they found it.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Student Union plans to hold another general assembly to debrief the negotiations and determine next steps next week. But, Yan said, the Wednesday session had already accomplished at least one of the group’s goals.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“Every single student can see what administrators say, and hold them to account when they do make proposals … when they lie, when they make up excuses, and see when they’re not providing enough for their students,” he told KQED.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"title": "Google Updates Suicide, Self-Harm Safeguards in Gemini as AI Lawsuits Mount",
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"content": "\u003cp>As a growing number of lawsuits allege AI chatbots are cultivating emotional dependency loops with humans, Alphabet’s \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/tag/google\">Google\u003c/a> announced it will direct Gemini chatbot users to a support hotline if the conversation indicates a “potential crisis related to suicide or self-harm.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In a\u003ca href=\"https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/technology/health/mental-health-updates/\"> blog post\u003c/a>, Google wrote that Gemini will introduce a redesigned “Help is available” feature, developed in collaboration with clinical experts. “Once the interface is activated, the option to reach out for professional help will remain clearly available throughout the remainder of the conversation,” the post stated.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Google wrote that it has trained Gemini “not to agree with or reinforce false beliefs, and instead gently distinguish subjective experience from objective fact.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Psychologically vulnerable people turning to chatbots to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12049674\">go down rabbit holes\u003c/a> could have been predicted, according to Jennifer King, a privacy and data policy fellow at the Stanford Institute for Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence. “To some extent, you can anticipate some of the harms we see,” she told KQED. “We’ve seen people acting bad with technology across a variety of behaviors for a very long time.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although the blog post does not mention lawsuits, the family of a 36-year-old man who died in Florida\u003ca href=\"https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-03-04/google-gemini-accused-of-coaching-user-to-suicide-in-new-suit\"> sued Google\u003c/a> in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California last month, claiming that his use of Gemini devolved into a “\u003ca href=\"https://news.bloomberglaw.com/artificial-intelligence/google-gemini-accused-of-coaching-user-to-suicide-in-new-suit\">four-day descent into violent missions and coached suicide\u003c/a>.” At the time, Google said the chatbot repeatedly referred the man to a crisis hotline, but the company also promised to improve Gemini’s safeguards.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>https://www.youtube.com/embed/DR-vBOsyQPE\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Google is \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12063401/openai-faces-legal-storm-over-claims-its-ai-drove-users-to-suicide-delusions\">not the only AI developer\u003c/a> facing lawsuits over allegations that its chatbots encourage some users to form obsessive relationships with them, feed delusions and even contribute to plans for suicide or murder. Research also suggests users\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12038154/kids-talking-ai-companion-chatbots-stanford-researchers-say-thats-bad-idea\"> form intense, quasi-romantic bonds\u003c/a> with chatbots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The guardrails are obviously necessary, King said. “There have been many cases of users experiencing psychosis and other problems,” she added, noting the sycophancy or agreeability built into the chatbots’ design encourages unstable behavior, “as well as their propensity to get people to believe things that just aren’t true.”[aside postID=news_12069286 hero='https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2026/01/OpenAI.jpg']Guadalupe Hayes-Mota, director of the bioethics program at Santa Clara University, wants to see proof that AI chatbot developers are using clinically validated guidelines for interactions where mental health care is an issue. “Who’s actually making the decision when the crisis pops up for the individual, and how is that being done?” he asked.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s an awful lot of people who study these things,” King said. “But they’re often not consulted. They’re not part of the process.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the past year and a half, OpenAI and Anthropic have also adjusted their mental-health guardrails, amid growing public scrutiny and lawsuits. Experts say that in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12059714/newsom-vetoes-most-watched-childrens-ai-bill-signs-16-others-targeting-tech\">absence of federal regulation\u003c/a>, court rulings appear to be most effectively inspiring tech companies to take proactive measures like Google’s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In March, a Los Angeles jury found Meta and YouTube negligent in a case centered around \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12063401/openai-faces-legal-storm-over-claims-its-ai-drove-users-to-suicide-delusions\">social media addiction\u003c/a>, using arguments centered around product liability and negligence — sidestepping Section 230, a longstanding legal shield that protects platforms from liability for harmful content that users post.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Psychologically vulnerable people turning to chatbots to \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12049674\">go down rabbit holes\u003c/a> could have been predicted, according to Jennifer King, a privacy and data policy fellow at the Stanford Institute for Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence. “To some extent, you can anticipate some of the harms we see,” she told KQED. “We’ve seen people acting bad with technology across a variety of behaviors for a very long time.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Although the blog post does not mention lawsuits, the family of a 36-year-old man who died in Florida\u003ca href=\"https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-03-04/google-gemini-accused-of-coaching-user-to-suicide-in-new-suit\"> sued Google\u003c/a> in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California last month, claiming that his use of Gemini devolved into a “\u003ca href=\"https://news.bloomberglaw.com/artificial-intelligence/google-gemini-accused-of-coaching-user-to-suicide-in-new-suit\">four-day descent into violent missions and coached suicide\u003c/a>.” At the time, Google said the chatbot repeatedly referred the man to a crisis hotline, but the company also promised to improve Gemini’s safeguards.\u003c/p>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutube'>\n \u003cspan class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__embedYoutubeInside'>\n \u003ciframe\n loading='lazy'\n class='utils-parseShortcode-shortcodes-__youtubeShortcode__youtubePlayer'\n type='text/html'\n src='//www.youtube.com/embed/DR-vBOsyQPE'\n title='//www.youtube.com/embed/DR-vBOsyQPE'\n allowfullscreen='true'\n style='border:0;'>\u003c/iframe>\n \u003c/span>\n \u003c/span>\u003c/p>\u003cp>\u003cp>Google is \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12063401/openai-faces-legal-storm-over-claims-its-ai-drove-users-to-suicide-delusions\">not the only AI developer\u003c/a> facing lawsuits over allegations that its chatbots encourage some users to form obsessive relationships with them, feed delusions and even contribute to plans for suicide or murder. Research also suggests users\u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12038154/kids-talking-ai-companion-chatbots-stanford-researchers-say-thats-bad-idea\"> form intense, quasi-romantic bonds\u003c/a> with chatbots.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The guardrails are obviously necessary, King said. “There have been many cases of users experiencing psychosis and other problems,” she added, noting the sycophancy or agreeability built into the chatbots’ design encourages unstable behavior, “as well as their propensity to get people to believe things that just aren’t true.”\u003c/p>\u003c/div>",
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"content": "\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>Guadalupe Hayes-Mota, director of the bioethics program at Santa Clara University, wants to see proof that AI chatbot developers are using clinically validated guidelines for interactions where mental health care is an issue. “Who’s actually making the decision when the crisis pops up for the individual, and how is that being done?” he asked.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>“There’s an awful lot of people who study these things,” King said. “But they’re often not consulted. They’re not part of the process.”\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the past year and a half, OpenAI and Anthropic have also adjusted their mental-health guardrails, amid growing public scrutiny and lawsuits. Experts say that in the \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12059714/newsom-vetoes-most-watched-childrens-ai-bill-signs-16-others-targeting-tech\">absence of federal regulation\u003c/a>, court rulings appear to be most effectively inspiring tech companies to take proactive measures like Google’s.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In March, a Los Angeles jury found Meta and YouTube negligent in a case centered around \u003ca href=\"https://www.kqed.org/news/12063401/openai-faces-legal-storm-over-claims-its-ai-drove-users-to-suicide-delusions\">social media addiction\u003c/a>, using arguments centered around product liability and negligence — sidestepping Section 230, a longstanding legal shield that protects platforms from liability for harmful content that users post.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>",
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"info": "Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? Each episode also includes a short fiction story generated by advanced AI GPT-4, serving as a thought-provoking springboard to speculate how humanity could leverage technology for good.",
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"soldout": {
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"title": "SOLD OUT: Rethinking Housing in America",
"tagline": "A new future for housing",
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